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• 1[00:08:09] <cybrNaut> jhutchins> replaced-url
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• 4[00:09:20] <cybrNaut> when they complain that the evidence is gone, my cover story would be "i was drugged.. i wasn't in my right mind"
• 5[00:11:01] <oxek> and then you're dead
• 6[00:11:34] *** Quits: dreamon_ (~dreamon@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 7[00:11:45] <oxek> if they are already willing to use the wrench, then all protection you'd have under the law is out of the window already
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• 9[00:12:08] <oxek> and you'll likely be following it out of the window as well
• 10[00:12:19] <cybrNaut> luckily the data is out the window too
• 11[00:12:34] <oxek> nobody has data worth dying over
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• 13[00:12:47] <oxek> definitely not in #debian
• 14[00:13:19] <RipFreenode[llf]> SUPPORT LLF (LET'S LEAVE FREENODE) BY ONLY WRITING IN CAPSLOCK FROM NOW. ADD [lff] TO YOUR NICK!
• 15[00:13:21] <jelly> you don't know what people use debian for; sometimes data held by one person protects or endangers a collective
• 16[00:13:33] *** RipFreenode[llf] was kicked by jelly (RipFreenode[llf])
• 17[00:13:36] <jelly> no
• 18[00:14:27] *** jelly sets mode: +b $a:LeavFreenode
• 19[00:14:44] *** jelly sets mode: -b $a:LeavFreenode
• 20[00:14:47] *** jelly sets mode: +b $a:LeavFreenode$##arguments
• 21[00:14:49] *** Parts: jca (~jca@replaced-ip) ("see you irc.libera.chat")
• 22[00:15:24] <jhutchins> Guys, #debian-offtopic
• 23[00:16:39] <cybrNaut> indeed.. we should all be working on my unsolved Debian problem: replaced-url
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• 25[00:20:14] <jelly> cybrNaut, you could use lvm on top of a single luks for pv, and avoid the key file
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• 27[00:21:27] <jelly> that would be a more traditional approach anyway
• 28[00:22:09] <cybrNaut> jelly: sounds like a sensible workaround. perhaps i will do that if i start to burn out on this
• 29[00:23:31] <jelly> !debug initramfs
• 30[00:23:31] <dpkg> [initramfsdebug] replaced-url
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• 32[00:24:19] <jelly> I suspect the initrd code does not deal with your fs dependencies well, or maybe you haven't declared them at all
• 33[00:25:29] <cybrNaut> i think after successfully entering the password for crypt4 ("/"), initrd and grub are both out of the picture.
• 34[00:25:42] <jelly> oh true
• 35[00:26:06] <cybrNaut> the crypttab inside the initrd image only lists crypt4 ("/"), not the other 2
• 36[00:26:06] <jelly> I'd still take a look at the boot process without "quiet" to see a bit more details
• 37[00:26:28] <cybrNaut> sounds like a good idea
• 38[00:27:00] <jelly> why do you have a separate /boot?
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• 40[00:27:56] <jelly> oh, it's not encrypted, nevermind
• 41[00:28:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 892
• 42[00:28:04] <cybrNaut> right
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• 45[00:28:21] <jelly> apparently it's too late for me to irc with any semblance of understanding
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• 49[00:29:17] <PMT> i thought late was the traditional time for IRC usage
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• 53[00:33:38] <jhutchins> PMT: It depends how the refreshments flow.
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• 81[01:09:04] <MrHatter123> I had a strange issue the other day with LVM on a debian 9 box. Upon reboot, the system was unable to find one of the 2 LVM filesystems. it hung for a while then dropped me into a maintenance shell. After investigating and trying to work out why, on the 4th reboot, it found the LVM and everything was fine. Then rebooting 3 or 4 more times it wouldn't find it, then it did again.
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• 84[01:09:30] <MrHatter123> a bit scary, I have no idea how to troubleshoot.
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• 90[01:15:07] <terr> MrHatter123, sounds like you have a multi boot system
• 91[01:15:17] <MrHatter123> terr, no.
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• 94[01:15:51] <MrHatter123> pretty basic linux box, 2x mirrored mdadm raid1 drives, samba fileshare.
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• 96[01:16:05] <terr> Lol. Sorry. I was trying to make light of a sgitty situation
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• 98[01:16:16] <MrHatter123> terr, ah :)
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• 100[01:17:34] <terr> I used similar over 10 years ago. But right now I am starting fresh with my 1st 64 bit install.
• 101[01:17:53] <terr> I don't even have a test system
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• 103[01:18:55] <PMT> Is it your first 64b hardware?
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• 112[01:20:16] <terr> Let me ponder. I have to pea anyways
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• 127[01:33:51] <terr> MrHatter123, I have a similar problem booting from a USB. It often goes to the internal drive. In my case, no issue because I will be installing grub.
• 128[01:35:17] <terr> I think it might have something to do with timing. The loader should wait long enough for the LVM to say "HELLO!!!"
• 129[01:35:52] <MrHatter123> the box has been running for years, nothing has changed, friday was the first time it happened.
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• 134[01:38:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 879
• 135[01:38:31] <terr> Could be a flakey disc!!! I have seen this before
• 136[01:39:42] *** Parts: oerheks (~OerHeks@replaced-ip) ()
• 137[01:40:32] <PMT> MrHatter123: check dpkg.log, see if anything remotely related was upgraded?
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• 145[01:44:06] <terr> PMT. good idea
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• 158[02:00:13] <ryouma> i had the vague impression that gdisk and sgdisk were released around the same time --- 14:23 <sney> sometimes it takes newer tools time to get ranked high enough.
• 159[02:00:29] <ryouma> fwiw
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• 162[02:03:06] <sney> ryouma: oh, actually it turns out they're in the same package
• 163[02:03:20] <sney> I wonder what the deal was with the bullseye image then.
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• 180[02:21:47] <cybrNaut> sney> ryouma: oh, actually it turns out they're in the same package <= i didn't realize that.. i guess i misspoke when i said sgdisk was missing from bullseye earlier
• 181[02:22:31] <ryouma> same author for all the g ones i think
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• 183[02:23:45] <cybrNaut> chroot /mnt/debian_bullseye apt search gdisk => gdisk/testing 1.0.6-1.1 amd64
• 184[02:24:16] <cybrNaut> so maybe i will mess around with an encrypted /boot then
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• 187[02:25:43] * cybrNaut sees that the bullseye version of sgdisk has "8309 Linux LUKS"
• 188[02:25:52] <ryouma> too much complexity for me as they can still corrupt the mbr right? i might try some bespoke intrusion detcing or so though.
• 189[02:27:04] <cybrNaut> that sound scary, even though i won't be having an MBR. I'll be doing the GPT-BIOS boot thing
• 190[02:27:40] <ryouma> that is where you have gpt drive on a... what is that?
• 191[02:28:10] <cybrNaut> jelly: when I booted without quiet, it was noisey enough that all the errors scrolled off before I was asked for the crypt5 password
• 192[02:28:46] <jelly> MrHatter123, md arrays not assembled in time? look at "cat /proc/mdstat" and maybe "lsblk" if it exists in initramfs next time that happens
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• 194[02:29:31] <cybrNaut> ryouma: my hardware predates EFI. It's legacy BIOS only. GPT disks are not natively bootable by BIOS unless there is a partition of type "BIOS boot"
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• 196[02:30:48] <jelly> bios boot does not care about partitions at all really (unless it's a very speshul kind of bios fw); the EF02 partition there is just to make a safe space for the second part of grub
• 197[02:31:11] <cybrNaut> so i create a BIOS boot partition, and GRUB sees it and uses it. GRUB puts some code on it that then references the UUID of /boot
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• 199[02:32:21] <jelly> on a smaller disk with a mbr table, grub would usually put the same code in the unpartitioned space between first sector and the first partition
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• 201[02:33:42] <cybrNaut> the BIOS boot can be placed anywhere, but I put it on from sector 34 to sector 2047 to use that otherwise unused space.
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• 206[02:35:01] <cybrNaut> i heard the BIOS boot area referred to as the "GRUB's second stage" or something like that
• 207[02:35:10] <cybrNaut> ..no idea where the 1st stage would be then
• 208[02:35:41] <cybrNaut> since there is no MBR in the case of GPT
• 209[02:36:22] <cybrNaut> i guess it must be on sectors 1-34
• 210[02:36:32] <cybrNaut> *33
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• 212[02:36:41] <jelly> oh, but there is, every GPT carries a small MBR inside
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• 214[02:37:08] <jelly> frist stage is always in the first sector with bios boot
• 215[02:37:23] <ryouma> so it looks like basically if you have gpt and want to run on bios, you want a partition there (and extra space it looks like)
• 216[02:37:30] <ryouma> bios also*
• 217[02:37:52] <jelly> you _have to_ do that if you have a bios boot and a boot disk >= 2TiB
• 218[02:38:31] <jelly> I think
• 219[02:39:23] <cybrNaut> when i started this GPT, i didn't know about the BIOS boot partition and neglected to create one. So then grub-install bitched about it, which is how i learnt about it
• 220[02:39:31] <cybrNaut> y hardware predates EFI. It's legacy BIOS only. GPT disks are not natively bootable by BIOS unless there is a
• 221[02:39:35] <cybrNaut> partition of type "BIOS boot"
• 222[02:39:37] <cybrNaut> 20:31 -!- Filohuhum [~filohuhum@gateway/tor-sasl/filohuhum] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
• 223[02:39:41] <cybrNaut> 20:31 <@jelly> bios boot does not care about partitions at all really (unless it's a very speshul kind of bios fw); the EF02 partition
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• 230[02:41:24] <cybrNaut> sorry
• 231[02:41:24] <cybrNaut> i didn't mean to copy that
• 232[02:41:24] <cybrNaut> ryouma: the first sgdisk command here is how I create BIOS boot: replaced-url
• 233[02:41:27] <cybrNaut> not just any partitioning tool can do that. fdisk, gdisk, sfdisk, and probably cfdisk all refuse to touch the space before sector 2048
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• 235[02:41:41] <cybrNaut> only sgdisk and parted can do that
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• 238[02:44:18] <cybrNaut> @jelly> you _have to_ do that if you have a bios boot and a boot disk >= 2TiB <= i thought it had to be anywhere in the 1st 2 tb, but anyway, sector 34 is sure to work
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• 242[02:47:16] <ryouma> but you don't need to use the space before sector 2408 right?
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• 244[02:48:46] <cybrNaut> ryouma: you generally /cannot/ use it AFAIK (that's why most partitioning tools won't let you). BIOS boot is the exception
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• 246[02:49:45] <ryouma> i am so conservative i'd stick it as first partition, after the sapce
• 247[02:49:52] <cybrNaut> note that you lose the performance of not having the BIOS boot aligned on a 4096 boundary, but that's negligible anyway since it's only accessed once at boot time then never again
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• 252[02:59:28] <cybrNaut> ryouma: why did you say encrypted /boot can corrupt the MBR?
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• 255[03:00:15] <PMT> I believe what they said was even with encrypted /boot, malicious actors could clobber your bootloader.
• 256[03:01:03] <cybrNaut> ah, that's a bit different
• 257[03:01:05] <PMT> (I'm sure they'll correct me if I'm misinterpreting what they said.)
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• 259[03:01:26] <cybrNaut> i guess i'm just happy to shrink the attack surface a little
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• 310[03:12:18] <ryouma> PMT: cybrNaut yes i meant htat
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• 393[03:32:36] <dkjii> is anyone using selinux on debian? I get a lot of issues off a new install on bullseye and wondering how to deal with it
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• 395[03:35:46] <ryouma> when upgrading debian runs update-initramfs, or causes it to be run, what options does it use?
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• 398[03:37:37] <ryouma> is it dpkg-reconfigure that calls update-initramfs? a kernel hook?
• 399[03:37:57] <PMT> /etc/kernel/postinst.d/initramfs-tools says -c -k [...] [...]
• 400[03:38:15] <ryouma> thank you'
• 401[03:38:33] <PMT> (and postrm.d says -d -k [...] [...])
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• 404[03:39:36] <ryouma> presumably -k refers to the one that will be deleted (the man page says generate)
• 405[03:40:53] <ryouma> i have comfirmed that mkinitramfs correctly creates the cryptroot conf file in the initramfs even though it does not exist in /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d (but resume does). and so does update-initramfs -u. so it might be that that file is only ever generated manually?
• 406[03:41:06] <ryouma> i have not tried deleting and then update-initramfs. i will try the above hooks.
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• 408[03:42:15] <ryouma> actually on stretch it is -c -t -k
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• 412[03:45:08] <ryouma> i see a contradiction when running -c -t -k
• 413[03:45:37] <ryouma> first, it says WARNING: missing /lib/modules/initrd.img-4.9.0-15-amd64 -- but the same thing without the "initrd.img-" exists
• 414[03:45:40] <PMT> update-initramfs on buster doesn't have -t according to the man page.
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• 416[03:45:57] <PMT> ...what command did you use?
• 417[03:46:07] <ryouma> next, it says "dpkg: warning: version 'initrd.img-4.9.0-15-amd64' has bad syntax: version number does not start with digit"
• 418[03:46:14] <PMT> the -k argument is "kernel version"
• 419[03:46:16] <ryouma> i assume t is a force arg
• 420[03:46:25] <PMT> e.g. -k 4.9.0-15-amd64
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• 422[03:47:06] <ryouma> good noticing there. i am doing update-initramfs -c -t -k 4.9.0-15-amd64 and no errors.
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• 425[03:48:00] <cybrNaut> does this example partition make any sense? => replaced-url
• 426[03:48:27] <cybrNaut> that doc suggests a layout with a BIOS boot partition AND an /efi partition
• 427[03:49:42] <cybrNaut> i don't imagine a case where a BIOS boot partition would be used with EFI, because a BIOS boot partition is only for cases of having a pure legacy bios with no EFI
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• 430[03:51:20] <ryouma> PMT: using what i just tried it generated same as my previous initramfs (despite having no /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/cryptroot, it included it in the initramfs), except for expected changes like an updated busybox.
• 431[03:51:36] <ryouma> it is quite a relief knowing that probably the initramfs will be created correctly
• 432[03:52:16] <PMT> It would be somewhat unexpected it if it wasn't, unless you were doing something completely unsupported.
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• 434[03:52:45] <ryouma> well i got bitten by a bug in initramfs years ago and i am still shy
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• 436[03:53:21] <ryouma> and i still don't know if i am supposed to manuyaly add /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/cryptroot but it seems like i don't need to
• 437[03:53:47] <PMT> I would doubt you're supposed to manually populate anything for initramfs unless it was manually populated otherwise.
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• 440[03:58:32] <ryouma> i think resume was populated by the installer (and nothing updated it to more modern partitions), but apparently nothing populated cryptroot. which seems strange.
• 441[03:58:57] <PMT> Which installer was it?
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• 443[03:59:05] <ryouma> are /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/cryptroot and /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume mainly meant for the admin to force those as an override to whatever update-initramfs and mkinitramfs glean from the system?
• 444[03:59:22] <PMT> That, I do not know.
• 445[03:59:27] <ryouma> idr, long ago
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• 447[04:00:16] <PMT> conf.d is empty on my system.
• 448[04:01:13] <dkjii> also, how do you get dbus working without x11 on debian? I get "cannot autolaunch without x11"
• 449[04:01:44] <PMT> Which Debian?
• 450[04:02:05] <dkjii> I'm on bullseye
• 451[04:02:11] <PMT> Because my server is definitely not running X, and definitely is running dbus.
• 452[04:02:24] <dkjii> user libvirtd says it needs x11 when launched through systemd
• 453[04:02:42] <dkjii> seems like I can manually start it though
• 454[04:02:44] <cybrNaut> same here. On stretch, i have conf/conf.d/cryptroot/crypttab, but on Bullseye conf/conf.d is empty and cryptroot/crypttab exists from the root level
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• 457[04:03:27] <ryouma> cybrNaut: you seem to be talking about the initramfs? PMT and i are both talking about /etc i think.
• 458[04:03:52] <ryouma> are /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/cryptroot and /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume both nonexistent for you?
• 459[04:04:46] <cybrNaut> /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume exists on Stretch but /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/cryptroot does not
• 460[04:04:57] <ryouma> aha just like me
• 461[04:05:07] <ryouma> that is comforting
• 462[04:05:24] <PMT> dkjii: is that the exact message
• 463[04:06:24] <dkjii> PMT: Exact message is "libvirtd: Internal error: Unable to get sesssion bus connection: Cannot autolaunch D-Bus without X11 $DISPLAY"
• 464[04:06:27] <ryouma> i set resume to none in that resme file. if i created the resume file just to override, and forgot that i did so, then there must be someplace where mkinitramfs or update-initramfs was getting the completely obsolete name. but it seems more likely that it gets it from there. but it does NOT seem to get cryptroot from there, which is strange. but if yours is same than mine, i will just accpe that it is strange.
• 465[04:07:06] <dkjii> I guess I can just ignore that since dbus isnt all that useful for libvirt
• 466[04:07:09] <dkjii> I thin
• 467[04:07:10] <dkjii> k
• 468[04:07:10] <ryouma> i.e. you would expect that if it gets from one then it gets from the other also
• 469[04:07:24] <cybrNaut> ryouma: also, both those files are missing from Bullseye for me, but my installation is incomplete
• 470[04:08:54] <PMT> dkjii: ah, I was asking about dbus specifically. were you only having this problem when libvirtd wants to launch dbus?
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• 474[04:11:01] <ryouma> this says you can just remove the file but it wfm to set it to none without removing it replaced-url
• 475[04:11:40] <ryouma> yea, it was there and broken in /etc, so must hasve bgeen installer writing to etc
• 476[04:11:41] <dkjii> PMT: yes, at least dbus-run-session seems to work (I don't have dbus-launch)
• 477[04:12:06] <PMT> dkjii: what about launching the service using e.g. systemctl?
• 478[04:13:02] <dkjii> I don't think you can do that on debian for user session PMT
• 479[04:13:15] <dkjii> or at least I havent found out how, dbus.socket?
• 480[04:13:58] <PMT> I do not pretend to be an expert on systemd, I was just assuming that "dbus not running" meant what it said on the tin.
• 481[04:14:43] <dkjii> yeah if I can get dbus to start with systemd user units that'd work
• 482[04:14:48] <dkjii> instead of libvirt autostart
• 483[04:15:48] <PMT> You could also be lazy and just set up a shell alias to do the right thing.
• 484[04:16:50] <dkjii> PMT: any idea where the dbus session socket is supposed to be?
• 485[04:17:11] <PMT> Absolutely none, sorry.
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• 487[04:25:11] <ryouma> what i do to start dbus is this
• 488[04:25:12] <ryouma> eval $(dbus-launch --sh-syntax --exit-with-session)
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• 490[04:25:16] <ryouma> (i run fluxbox)
• 491[04:26:56] <ryouma> oh you just said you don't ahve that. nm.
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• 493[04:27:29] <PMT> I do have dbus-launch.
• 494[04:28:05] <PMT> But you are correct, I do not have X or a WM on here.
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• 500[04:34:03] <dkjii> ryouma: yeah that works but I'm trying to use systemd user service manager which doesn't call bashrc
• 501[04:34:14] <dkjii> but I think I'll just ignore the error for now
• 502[04:34:33] <ryouma> no clue on systemd. i don't understand it.
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• 507[04:39:19] <dkjii> ya systemd is so complex its crazy
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• 510[04:39:39] <dkjii> was trying to just sudo but sudo doesn't start a user session so I have to mess with machined and stuff
• 511[04:39:50] <dkjii> why not just make sudo works or add a flag smh
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• 528[04:59:06] <notabot01> What I am about to say is going to sound like a ridiculous troll attempt, so I'll lead with the reputable news links before the explanation (especially in case I get klined immediately by the network's new owners
• 529[04:59:08] <notabot01> replaced-url
• 530[04:59:10] <notabot01> replaced-url
• 531[04:59:11] <notabot01> replaced-url
• 532[04:59:44] <sney> it's not news and it's still offtopic in #debian
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• 534[05:00:13] <sney> grant me the confidence of a rando thinking they're the first to talk about a controversy in a large public channel. lol
• 535[05:00:50] <notabot01> sney, it's on topic to whether or not Debian is committed to open source principles of community control. Your channel is noticably missing the customary "we are moving to irc.libera.chat" notice in the topic
• 536[05:00:59] <sney> !oftc move
• 537[05:00:59] <dpkg> irc.debian.org moved to OFTC on June 4th 2006, see replaced-url
• 538[05:01:03] <sney> ^ see the year
• 539[05:01:07] <notabot01> oh....
• 540[05:01:08] <notabot01> okay then
• 541[05:01:14] *** Quits: twobitsprite (~isaac.fre@107.13.62.21) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 542[05:01:23] <sney> non-OFTC #debians are maintained for user convenience. there's one on libera now, too.
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• 550[05:13:25] <sney> ( cc jelly, the current topic note might need an edit for clarity, as it was apparently completely missed. )
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• 572[05:31:17] <alexrelis[m]> Could this pave the way for a full-on Debian Matrix transition?
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• 575[05:32:36] <PMT> I, as a random passerby, would put the odds of that slightly lower than the odds of Debian becoming a Windows distribution.
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• 584[05:42:22] <illuminated> I'm trying to get a wireless nic operational on buster
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• 587[05:42:33] <illuminated> modprobe shows that a wireless nic driver is loaded
• 588[05:42:41] <illuminated> sorry lsmod
• 589[05:42:43] <illuminated> not modprobe
• 590[05:42:53] <illuminated> but it's being shown, in the "used by" column by nothing
• 591[05:43:20] <illuminated> and the nic isn't showing up in any devices to manually use plasma-nm to add a new wifi connection
• 592[05:43:22] <illuminated> any ideas?
• 593[05:43:30] <PMT> Is it a USB NIC? PCIe? PCI?
• 594[05:43:35] <illuminated> usb
• 595[05:43:57] *** Quits: GeekNerd (~not-a-bot@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bye)
• 596[05:44:06] <illuminated> I've not done wifi on linux before
• 597[05:44:11] <illuminated> so kinda new territory
• 598[05:44:33] <PMT> what does lsusb -v say? (Please use a pastebin if you're going to share large amounts of text)
• 599[05:44:47] <PMT> Actually, let's start with just "lsusb", no -v
• 600[05:45:32] <PMT> also, what wireless nic driver is loaded?
• 601[05:46:10] <illuminated> Bus 001 Device 007: ID 07d1:3300 D-Link System DWA-130 802.11n Wireless N Adapter(rev.E) [Realtek RTL8191SU]
• 602[05:46:17] <illuminated> sorry, had to ssh the box
• 603[05:46:22] <illuminated> also, just sec
• 604[05:46:48] <illuminated> r8712u 155648 0
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• 606[05:48:23] <PMT> illuminated: what does sudo dmesg | tail -n 50 say?
• 607[05:48:24] <illuminated> sorry, it may not have been clear. I have a working wired connection it
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• 609[05:49:38] <illuminated> how many lines is "a lot of lines?"
• 610[05:49:44] <illuminated> I can paste the results in 3 lines
• 611[05:49:50] <illuminated> at least the relevant parts of them
• 612[05:50:04] <PMT> I'd prefer it if you just shared all of them rather than trying to guess what I want to see.
• 613[05:50:18] <illuminated> oh ok.. just a second then
• 614[05:52:37] <PMT> I suppose I should have also asked what "sudo ip link" says, while I'm at it.
• 615[05:52:49] <illuminated> replaced-url
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• 617[05:53:55] <illuminated> replaced-url
• 618[05:54:23] <PMT> You may want the (non-free) firmware-realtek package; try installing that and then unloading and reloading the module.
• 619[05:54:37] <illuminated> yeah I tried that
• 620[05:54:47] <illuminated> I installed the contrib non-free repos
• 621[05:54:52] <illuminated> in /etc/apt/sources.lst
• 622[05:54:57] <illuminated> and did an apt update
• 623[05:55:05] <illuminated> but firmware-realktek was not listed
• 624[05:55:21] <illuminated> when i did an apt search non-free
• 625[05:55:43] <PMT> A) it's not spelled realktek B) can I see your sources.list?
• 626[05:55:52] <illuminated> yeah that was a typo
• 627[05:55:53] <illuminated> sorry
• 628[05:56:17] <PMT> I don't mind the typo, I just wanted to be sure you weren't searching for the wrong thing.
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• 631[05:57:18] <illuminated> replaced-url
• 632[05:57:23] *** Joins: kristijonas (~kristijon@replaced-ip)
• 633[05:57:31] <illuminated> that's the relevant part less comments n such
• 634[05:58:00] *** Quits: akp55 (~akp55@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 635[05:58:25] <PMT> you said apt update doesn't report any errors?
• 636[05:59:30] <illuminated> replaced-url
• 637[05:59:40] <illuminated> thats apt search non-free | grep firmware
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• 639[05:59:53] <illuminated> it's showing firmware-linux-nonfree
• 640[05:59:55] <PMT> you'd want to do apt-search firmware
• 641[06:00:04] <PMT> apt search firmware, even
• 642[06:00:17] <PMT> or just apt search firmware-realtek directly
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• 645[06:00:46] <illuminated> yeah it's listed
• 646[06:00:50] <illuminated> not sure how I missed it
• 647[06:01:01] <PMT> well, apt search non-free isn't going to show it, probably
• 648[06:01:15] <PMT> so apt instsall that, unload and reload the module, and see how it works
• 649[06:01:31] <illuminated> ok just a second
• 650[06:01:34] <illuminated> thanks for your help
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• 654[06:02:05] <illuminated> providing this doesn't work
• 655[06:02:09] <illuminated> would it be worth it to reboot
• 656[06:02:27] <illuminated> and just let the kernel decide what to load since it'll have new drivers to choose from?
• 657[06:02:37] <PMT> why would it have new drivers
• 658[06:02:50] <illuminated> I assumed that's what the firmware-realtek was
• 659[06:02:54] <PMT> no
• 660[06:02:59] <illuminated> oh, what is it?
• 661[06:03:02] <PMT> firmware-realtek, as the name implies, is firmware blobs
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• 664[06:06:22] <illuminated> awesome
• 665[06:06:23] <illuminated> works now
• 666[06:06:24] <illuminated> thanks
• 667[06:06:27] <illuminated> sorry for the delay
• 668[06:06:35] <illuminated> I had to run back to another room and test it
• 669[06:06:58] <budlight> hello
• 670[06:07:05] <illuminated> awesome nic
• 671[06:07:12] <illuminated> +k
• 672[06:07:55] <PMT> oh good
• 673[06:08:14] <illuminated> TIL
• 674[06:08:16] <illuminated> :)
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• 677[06:09:07] <illuminated> on debian how do you view your default routes?
• 678[06:09:15] <illuminated> I have both a wired and wireless connection on the same box now
• 679[06:09:26] <PMT> sudo ip route would be how I'd do it.
• 680[06:09:29] <illuminated> curious which interface traffic is going out of
• 681[06:10:23] <illuminated> which is the preferred route
• 682[06:10:27] <illuminated> a higher or lower metric
• 683[06:10:36] <illuminated> on the interfaces
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• 686[06:11:35] <PMT> I believe lower metric is preferred over higher, but I do not have multiple routes to test with here.
• 687[06:12:01] <PMT> So I could certainly be wrong.
• 688[06:13:22] <illuminated> I think you're right but you said you didn't have multiple links to test
• 689[06:13:28] <illuminated> what command whould I use to test?
• 690[06:14:22] <PMT> But I think it's more important how "specific" a route is, before evaluating metrics - e.g. if you had a route for 10.1.2.3, with metric 3, I believe it would always beat a route to 10.1.0.0/16, even with metric 0
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• 693[06:15:38] <illuminated> that made me feel nerdy
• 694[06:16:04] <illuminated> but cool.. I got wifi working on my debian box
• 695[06:17:01] <illuminated> is there a way to view whether a wired ethernet interface is connected at 100 mbit or 1 gbit?
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• 697[06:17:50] <PMT> yes; i would probably use something like sudo ethtool -i eth0; you could also look at sudo dmesg | grep [interface name]; there's almost certainly other ways I'm not thinking of.
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• 699[06:18:01] <PMT> (ethtool may not be installed.)
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• 705[06:19:44] <illuminated> i swear you have to be the most helpful person on the internet
• 706[06:20:01] <PMT> /sys/class/net/[interface name]/speed will also answer it.
• 707[06:20:14] <PMT> (I have no idea what it will report for wireless interfaces.)
• 708[06:20:36] <PMT> Thank you for the compliment, but no, not really. :)
• 709[06:21:29] <illuminated> wow, I finally found something root cannot do
• 710[06:21:35] <illuminated> I do that and I get permission denied
• 711[06:21:51] <illuminated> oh crap
• 712[06:21:52] <illuminated> lol
• 713[06:21:57] <illuminated> forgot "cat"
• 714[06:22:03] <illuminated> that's probably why
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• 716[06:22:33] <illuminated> it was
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• 718[06:23:13] <PMT> yup, without "cat X", it's just trying to run "X" as a program, and that's not going to fly on some random file
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• 730[06:40:16] <illuminated> yeah
• 731[06:40:17] <illuminated> sorry
• 732[06:40:25] <illuminated> I was in the other room customizing my kde desktop
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• 754[07:06:22] <A|an> Is #debian remaining on Freenode?
• 755[07:06:30] <somiaj> !debian irc
• 756[07:06:30] <dpkg> The offical Debian IRC network is OFTC (irc.debian.org or irc.oftc.net). Please join OFTC to connect with debian support and development communities. See replaced-url
• 757[07:06:32] <somiaj> !oftc move
• 758[07:06:40] <somiaj> !oftc move
• 759[07:06:41] <dpkg> irc.debian.org moved to OFTC on June 4th 2006, see replaced-url
• 760[07:07:07] <somiaj> A|an: #debian has been on oftc for quite a long time (see that date). This has been an unoffical channel since then.
• 761[07:07:58] <A|an> The reason I ask, I just learned that Freenode is evidently fallen to what sounds like a hostile takeover
• 762[07:08:17] <A|an> replaced-url
• 763[07:08:50] <PMT> People in here are aware.
• 764[07:08:59] <A|an> Some channels are evidently leaving
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• 766[07:09:20] <A|an> PMT: well, it's a shock to me!
• 767[07:09:24] <somiaj> Yes, we are aware. You may also want to check out freenode's statement on the manner. But if you want to have access to #debian and lots of other channels (see that wiki link) you should join OFTC, you'll find more debian devs there too.
• 768[07:10:02] <A|an> ic
• 769[07:10:25] <somiaj> Note, I'm not stating my opinion, just staing you should do some more research and make up your own decision on the situation, and join us on OFTC for the same old great debian support.
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• 792[07:44:07] <terr> Somiaj I will check it out next month
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• 803[07:54:49] <jhutchins> There will be three channels, and no coordination.
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• 806[07:57:36] <PMT> I'm in another channel which has a bot bridging between a channel on freenode and a channel on libera, and I strongly dislike it, so I think I prefer this outcome, personally.
• 807[07:58:14] <somiaj> Yea, we have talked about a bridge bot, though they are hard to implment nicely.
• 808[07:58:56] <somiaj> Anyways, we are trying to encourage users to join OFTC, but even if we were to leave freenode and/or libera, new channels would open if that is where the people are.
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• 821[08:08:15] <SymbioticFemales> #freenode got unmuted again 3 minutes ago.
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• 843[08:17:59] <coc0nut> hm i think "apt install git-all" broke my debian :|
• 844[08:18:41] <SymbioticFemales> that sucks
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• 848[08:25:11] <somiaj> coc0nut: what version of debian are you running?
• 849[08:25:38] <somiaj> coc0nut: were you mixing versions (or maybe just installing from backports)?
• 850[08:25:50] <coc0nut> using debian buster 10
• 851[08:26:38] <coc0nut> and i have this "aptup" alias that makes apt update ; apt upgrade ; apt autoremove ; apt autoclean ; apt clean :p ^^
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• 853[08:27:05] <somiaj> note apt autoclean and apt clean are mostly pointless with apt
• 854[08:27:18] <somiaj> apt by default does not keep .debs in /var/cache/apt/archives
• 855[08:27:29] <coc0nut> so reading some article about git and to learn about it. there was a tutorial "apt install git-all" and thats it. installed stuff, and suddenly autoremove started removing some lightdm stuff and more to
• 856[08:27:37] <somiaj> coc0nut: and you weren't trying to install git from backports?
• 857[08:27:50] <somiaj> installing a package from stable in stable should not break things
• 858[08:27:57] <somiaj> coc0nut: care to share the output of 'apt policy'?
• 859[08:28:27] <coc0nut> well, im trying to boot my computer. takes a good while
• 860[08:28:45] <somiaj> coc0nut: also I would suggest && vs ; between your commands, so 'apt update && apt upgrade && apt autoremove'
• 861[08:29:03] <coc0nut> some of the loading of modules is showing "info" instead of OK and even some warnings and timeouts on loading
• 862[08:29:24] <coc0nut> thats great info :) thx
• 863[08:29:43] <somiaj> well until we can figure out what happened, lets not start looking at everything, lets see if we can figure what git-all broke
• 864[08:29:46] <coc0nut> so i logged back in now, without a window manager
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• 866[08:30:26] <coc0nut> its very slow
• 867[08:30:28] <somiaj> !termbin
• 868[08:30:28] <dpkg> you can paste to termbin.com from terminal via: nc termbin.com 9999 < /path/to/file
• 869[08:30:44] <somiaj> we can use that to get info, so 'nc termbin.com 9999 < apt policy'
• 870[08:30:56] <somiaj> arg wait one second
• 871[08:31:04] <coc0nut> well, its hard to paste because its on a laptop bare metal
• 872[08:31:20] <SymbioticFemales> dpkg: thats useful. thanks bot.
• 873[08:31:21] <dpkg> SymbioticFemales: I wish you would RTFM.
• 874[08:31:21] <somiaj> I'm backwards, 'apt policy | nc termbin.com 9999'
• 875[08:31:37] <somiaj> have to pipe since it isn't a file
• 876[08:32:40] <coc0nut> my network device is gone
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• 878[08:33:24] <coc0nut> lspci shows the network devices
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• 881[08:34:07] <somiaj> are you sure you weren't mixing sources and trying to install things from other places besides debian 10?
• 882[08:34:21] <coc0nut> pretty sure about that!
• 883[08:34:35] <somiaj> the package git-all should not be doing all of this, so I'm just trying to think of what would.
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• 886[08:36:38] <coc0nut> i stumbled on the autoremove of lightdm and alot of other things. was too quick on clicking enter. then after like 15-20 minutes the connection broke and i started seeing the network interface was gone in the toolbar. then i started realizing.
• 887[08:37:06] <coc0nut> i did not do anything system critical stuff other then "apt install git-all"... i was learning python on code academy hehe
• 888[08:37:11] <coc0nut> in the browser
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• 890[08:37:37] <somiaj> ahh okay, I guess that could make sense, amybe some metapackage was removed causing autoremove to take out everything
• 891[08:38:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 866
• 892[08:38:05] <somiaj> Though apt should always ask you if you want to do something, always *always* read what packages it wants to install/remove before hitting yes
• 893[08:38:26] <coc0nut> yup
• 894[08:38:41] <coc0nut> i appreciate the lesson :p and going back a few weeks to the stoneage hehe
• 895[08:39:04] <somiaj> I would have to see your /var/log/apt/history.log to provide much help on suggesting what you can reinstall to try to get back easy enough
• 896[08:40:42] <coc0nut> well im gladly providing it as good as i can
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• 898[08:41:44] <somiaj> I understand, you could also look through the history.log yourself and think about what you need to reinstall, though look for the metapackage like task-<something> or maybe some desktop package
• 899[08:42:14] <coc0nut> i will simplify the listing of packages
• 900[08:42:25] <coc0nut> i have it in front of me... will link you a pastebin
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• 902[08:44:31] <coc0nut> well you might have picked up the issue tho, so im posting the little i wrote now..
• 903[08:44:41] <coc0nut> command line: apt autoremove
• 904[08:44:41] <coc0nut> Remove: gnome-control-center-data:amd64, libteamdct10:amd64, node-normalize.css, bolt:amd64, gir1.2-nm-1.0, libpkcs11
• 905[08:44:45] <coc0nut> the rest is selfsaid i guess
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• 908[08:46:06] <coc0nut> and me starting to feel invincible with that debian x_x
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• 913[08:47:55] <coc0nut> would tasksel do the trick somiaj?
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• 915[08:48:11] <awal1> coc0nut, somiaj, apt autoremove may have no relation with apt install git-all . the removals are related to unmet stuff you removed before
• 916[08:48:37] <somiaj> yes you could rerun tasksel and install your DE again
• 917[08:49:14] <somiaj> awal1: yes it could have been something else that removed the metapackage holding everything in, but it appears that they run autoremove regurally, so maybe some dependency issue with the git-all tree caused the issue.
• 918[08:49:14] <coc0nut> awal1, i dont know for fact. but i did not purge or remove anything. nothing systemcritical for a long time
• 919[08:49:43] <coc0nut> it shows in my log. if i get back up and running ill post you the pastebin
• 920[08:50:12] <coc0nut> i dont think i had a checkbox called "laptop" in tasksel before either
• 921[08:50:45] <awal1> i did apt -s install git-all to simulate and all fine
• 922[08:50:54] <awal1> sid
• 923[08:51:18] <awal1> someone may simulate for you on stable
• 924[08:51:24] <coc0nut> i installed perf3.. thats the only thing i coudl think of
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• 930[08:54:52] <somiaj> awal1: though you may not have the conflicting package installed for some DE metapackage, the issue wasnt' the install, it was some conflicting package that got removed
• 931[08:55:20] <awal1> somiaj, ok
• 932[08:56:30] <coc0nut> not sure how to get network back and running now
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• 935[08:57:45] <coc0nut> cant remember if the installation media has a correction option either?
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• 937[09:04:23] <coc0nut> do you want me to write down all the packages removed? for troubleshooting
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• 946[09:23:43] <coc0nut> could i install without the format? everything would be overwritten anyway? im thinking to install timeshift and load a previous backup rather than trying to fix the broken
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• 953[09:42:09] <somiaj> coc0nut: I think you can just get your network backup and then just reinstall your DE and be back up and running
• 954[09:42:17] <somiaj> coc0nut: wired or wireless?
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• 957[09:44:35] <coc0nut> all network interfaces were dead and there was modules messed up in the start up, so im finished with the fresh install now :| saves more time. ill be more frequent in the backups and hopefully not fuckups :p it was alot of packages some fractions of lightdm, gnome and stuff stuff
• 958[09:44:53] <coc0nut> if so i had to load the rescue session in grub i guess
• 959[09:45:37] <somiaj> do you have a wired network?
• 960[09:45:55] <somiaj> it is just easier to setup than wirless, but wirless is possible too
• 961[09:46:17] <coc0nut> i was on wireless, but i plugged a wire in to try that.
• 962[09:46:36] <somiaj> okay look at 'ip a' can you determine what the interface name of your wired connection is
• 963[09:46:55] <somiaj> this varies, but on many machiens mine is called somethign like enp???
• 964[09:47:15] <somiaj> well en???
• 965[09:48:06] <coc0nut> enp
• 966[09:48:47] <klys> enp what?
• 967[09:49:02] <coc0nut> enp60s0
• 968[09:51:18] <somiaj> coc0nut: okay edit the file (with nano problably) /etc/network/interfaces and add a single line, 'iface enp60s0 inet dhcp'
• 969[09:51:29] <somiaj> coc0nut: save the file, then from the command line run 'ifup enp60s0'
• 970[09:51:59] <coc0nut> i very appreciate the help, but its already to late :/ im restoring a backup atm
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• 981[10:11:00] <coc0nut> is timeshift a problem restoring backups from previous installations? or is it just my situation right now.. because i ran into some troubles at that install. i had to change bios setting from ahcpi to raid... and suddenly ahcpi started functioning again. so im thinking the install was corrupt or something probably. still having a point on git-all for being the reason but i know not much hehe
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• 1022[11:00:16] <wr> replaced-url
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• 1026[11:03:18] <wrksx_> Hey
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• 1028[11:04:44] <oxek> wr: your question doesn't make sense
• 1029[11:04:49] <oxek> also, that command is horribly dangerous
• 1030[11:05:15] <wrksx_> I have a server that crashes quite often, but I can't get anything from journalctl about what happened. It stops logging at one point with no error message. Any advice on how to debug this?
• 1031[11:05:44] <wr> oxek, lutris docs use debian packages on opensuse
• 1032[11:06:12] <oxek> wr: opensuse provides a facility to build packages for many distributions
• 1033[11:06:22] <oxek> the resulting packages are in no way official
• 1034[11:06:25] <wr> oxek, ok
• 1035[11:06:46] <oxek> and don't add anything to /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/
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• 1037[11:07:49] <wr> oxek, am not gonna use it, just noticed that
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• 1039[11:08:33] <oxek> ok. If you wanted to do something nice, you could let whoever wrote that information know that it is endangering users' systems
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• 1042[11:12:51] <wr> oxek, #lutris
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• 1046[11:18:28] <coc0nut> how about alias lsd="ls ; pwd" or should i use alias lsd="ls && pwd" ?
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• 1048[11:20:43] <coc0nut> nvm
• 1049[11:22:13] <oxek> I wouldn't want my command history to be full of lsd ;)
• 1050[11:22:45] <coc0nut> not using it very often tbh! :P lol
• 1051[11:23:13] <coc0nut> im wondering about the difference of ; and && to do several commands in one line
• 1052[11:23:19] <coc0nut> lol that escalated
• 1053[11:23:31] <oxek> it really shouldn't be an alias but a function instead
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• 1056[11:24:19] <oxek> the difference between ; and && is that ; runs always and && only runs if the first command returned successfully
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• 1058[11:26:39] <coc0nut> ok nice!
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• 1079[11:55:37] <somiaj> coc0nut: ; runs the next command no matter what, && only runs the next command if the previous command exited with an exit code 0 (sucessful run no errors)
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• 2278[15:03:49] <Lope> is there a way to tune how much data Linux will move in/out of swap? cos my SSD is slow for like 4K R/W but fast for larger accesses?
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• 2282[15:05:14] <petn-randall> Lope: What should the kernel do instead when running out of memory?
• 2283[15:05:48] <oxek> the kernel should download more RAM
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• 2285[15:05:59] <TheBigK> Lope: did u look into swappiness?
• 2286[15:06:02] <jelly> Lope, out of swap, yes to a point
• 2287[15:06:19] <Lope> TheBigK, haven't looked into swappiness
• 2288[15:06:44] <Lope> what I'm wondering about is whether there's a tunable for how much data to move from RAM to swap and vice versa at a time.
• 2289[15:06:45] <TheBigK> Lope: its a kernel setting which u can set to lean more or less towards paging out in swap
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• 2291[15:06:56] <TheBigK> check /etc/sysctl.conf for vm.swapiness
• 2292[15:07:02] <Lope> Cos my SSD is fast for large amounts of data, but slow for like individual 4K blocks
• 2293[15:07:11] <petn-randall> Lope: You can change vm.swappiness, but that won't necessarily fix your problem.
• 2294[15:07:12] <Lope> so does swapping have a readahead sort of thing?
• 2295[15:07:30] <jelly> Lope, even a HDD is fast for large amounts of (contiguous) data
• 2296[15:07:36] <jelly> Lope, yes, vm.page-cluster
• 2297[15:07:39] <Lope> jelly, right!
• 2298[15:08:11] <petn-randall> Lope: disk will always be 10^5 times slower than RAM, even for SSDs, so even fine-tuning the issue will only marginally improve the problem at best.
• 2299[15:08:26] <PMT> ...I'm kind of impressed if an SSD is slow for individual IOs, that's kind of not what they're known for. (Slower than RAM, sure, but.)
• 2300[15:08:58] <TheBigK> PMT: if u use that weird qlc ssds... then its not suprising anymore
• 2301[15:09:06] <Lope> jelly, u da man!
• 2302[15:09:29] <Lope> so I see page-cluster by default is 3, meaning it's going to be 8x 4K meaning 32K at a time.
• 2303[15:09:29] <jelly> Lope, if you're seeing a lot of si/so and can't reduce pressure or buy more RAM, consider using zram+swap with higher priority than normal swap
• 2304[15:09:33] <PMT> TheBigK: usually those have SLC cache to hide that, though.
• 2305[15:09:48] <Lope> jelly, got 128G RAM
• 2306[15:09:52] <Lope> can't put more on the mobo
• 2307[15:09:54] <TheBigK> PMT: yeah... but how big is that thing and how smart handles that ssd that... xD
• 2308[15:09:57] <jelly> Lope, do you have a NUMA system?
• 2309[15:10:12] <Lope> jelly, yes, but it's 5950x so it's not such a problem these days?
• 2310[15:10:18] <PMT> TheBigK: sure, but if the claim was "slow for small IOs, fast for bulk", then it's probably not an "exhausting the SLC cache" problem
• 2311[15:10:33] <TheBigK> probably... :D
• 2312[15:10:42] <jelly> Lope, the kernel is still dumb about NUMA and will rather swap instead of using other CPU's RAM
• 2313[15:10:45] <TheBigK> unless u have weird firmware issues of some sort
• 2314[15:11:21] <jelly> Lope, try setting NUMA to interleave or disabled in BIOS, and see how your workload behaves
• 2315[15:11:27] <Lope> jelly, that's surprising and disappointing, given the huge amount of L3 the 5950X has (72MiB or whatever)
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• 2317[15:11:48] <jelly> Lope, how many CPU sockets are there, 2 or more?
• 2318[15:11:51] <Lope> 1
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• 2322[15:12:02] <Lope> but the CPU is 2 blocks of 8 cores
• 2323[15:12:09] <jelly> surely then you don't have NUMA
• 2324[15:12:09] <qwertuttyty> "fuse" uses a file with a size of zero. This is such a file as described here replaced-url
• 2325[15:12:19] <Lope> "glued together" to use intel's terminology.
• 2326[15:12:22] <jelly> Lope, what does "numastat" say
• 2327[15:12:23] <TheBigK> :D
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• 2331[15:12:49] <Lope> jelly, where is numastat?
• 2332[15:13:28] <jelly> numactl package
• 2333[15:13:54] <qwertuttyty> +
• 2334[15:13:56] <Lope> jelly, node0 only
• 2335[15:14:06] <TheBigK> for me same... have 3900x
• 2336[15:14:14] <Lope> numa_miss 0
• 2337[15:14:15] <jelly> so you don't have that as probable cause, okay
• 2338[15:14:22] <Lope> ok cool
• 2339[15:14:26] <Lope> thanks for the tip.
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• 2341[15:15:15] <qwertuttyty> This is such a file as described here
• 2342[15:15:53] <qwertuttyty> + I accidentally clicked
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• 2344[15:16:06] <jelly> Lope, you could start by setting vm.swappiness to 1 but I've seen modern kernels just put things on swap anyway, with certain workloads
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• 2346[15:17:46] <jelly> Lope, made further desperate attempts at tuning a couple weeks ago, let me see if the machines still swap a lot
• 2347[15:18:31] <jelly> Sir Swap-a-lot sadly appears in this env
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• 2352[15:22:31] <jelly> Lope, huh, hasn't swapped too much after the last tunings. vm.swappiness=1 vm.vfs_cache_pressure=200 (default 100) and _no_ messing with vm.page-cluster, 4.19 kernel
• 2353[15:23:32] <jelly> vm.vfs_cache_pressure changes SOMETHING in the way cache/buffers are prioritized
• 2354[15:23:45] <jelly> but I don't really remember or understand what
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• 2358[15:28:35] <PMT> Apparently, if you can trust the Gluster docs, vm.vfs_cache_pressure=100 makes it try to reclaim caching inodes/dentries at a "fair rate", higher values make it less "fair", lower values make it prefer to not reclaim them
• 2359[15:29:59] <PMT> (And since the Gluster docs appear to have lifted the explanation verbatim from replaced-url
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• 2365[15:38:38] <Lope> jelly, thanks bud
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• 2375[15:53:50] <jelly> PMT, 200 makes the kernel use a little bit less cache/buffera and a lot less paging out to swap
• 2376[15:54:36] <jelly> no idea how it affects actual performance on its own
• 2377[15:54:57] <jelly> but it beats doing "swapoff; swapon" in a cron job
• 2378[15:55:10] <Lope> jelly, any idea how to see what programs etc are eating all my RAM?
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• 2380[15:55:18] <Lope> that's one thing in Linux that I find terrible
• 2381[15:55:24] <jelly> pmem ?
• 2382[15:55:37] <Lope> in htop, you've got virt, res and shr and none of them seem to mean much
• 2383[15:55:38] <jelly> oh, RAM. No idea
• 2384[15:55:39] <PMT> what about ps/top/... doesn't answer that question for you?
• 2385[15:55:45] <Lope> yeah, exactly
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• 2387[15:56:05] <jelly> RES is the closest but none answer the actual question
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• 2390[15:56:19] <Lope> I don't know anything, but would have thought logically it should be possible to see how much ram programs are using
• 2391[15:56:30] <jelly> "if this process dies, how much more RAM will become available"
• 2392[15:56:30] <Lope> but it seems like an unanswerable question.
• 2393[15:56:34] <PMT> The answer is complicated, because if 6 programs have the same file mapped into memory, who gets blamed?
• 2394[15:56:39] <Lope> Like the meaning of all life in the universe rnd 42
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• 2396[15:57:04] <Lope> PMT, well we could start by blaming all of them?
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• 2398[15:57:18] <PMT> But then people would complain about not all the RAM being freed when killing programs.
• 2399[15:57:38] <Lope> PMT well more important is if I've got 20GB used on my machine, like right now
• 2400[15:57:39] <jelly> Lope, figuring out all the users of some SHR is costly
• 2401[15:57:47] <Lope> and hardly running anything, I want to know where all the RAM went.
• 2402[15:58:01] <jelly> Lope, start with output of "free -m" or so
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• 2404[15:58:24] <PMT> My default answer would be "it's probably in caches, but check"
• 2405[15:58:26] <Lope> free -h shows 20G used and 1G buff/cache
• 2406[15:58:36] <jelly> Lope, how much is "available"?
• 2407[15:58:39] <Lope> I know I've got 8G reserved for a VM
• 2408[15:58:47] <Lope> but that leaves 11G unaccounted for
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• 2410[15:58:56] <Lope> let's say the kernel is using 1G, so 10G unaccounted for.
• 2411[15:59:30] <Lope> total 125G, used 20G available 104G
• 2412[16:01:24] <PMT> And you said the total of RES doesn't add up to anywhere near that?
• 2413[16:01:24] <Lope> I'm running almost nothing, closed browser and basically everything non-essential. still 9G unaccounted for
• 2414[16:01:44] <Lope> well the problem with RES is it says everything is using loads of RAM, but that's not trie
• 2415[16:01:45] <Lope> true.
• 2416[16:02:17] <Lope> for example is shows like 100 plasmashell threads, with all of them saying RES 284M
• 2417[16:02:35] <Lope> but I know that truthfully, 284M will be used by plasmashell
• 2418[16:02:39] <Lope> in total
• 2419[16:02:51] <PMT> Well, if you know truthful numbers, you can sum them yourself.
• 2420[16:02:57] <jelly> hide the threads.
• 2421[16:03:02] <Lope> Ok, but let's say I press F5 in htop, then I get tree view yeah
• 2422[16:03:02] <jelly> show processes only
• 2423[16:03:35] <PMT> ^
• 2424[16:04:14] <jelly> 3758 jelly 20 0 724768 203840 73764 S 3,7 0,8 7501:17 plasmashell # just one
• 2425[16:05:32] <jelly> then order by RES. In normal top, you'd just press M
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• 2428[16:08:23] <jelly> just the processes from firefox-esr itself seem to take about 4.2GB on this kde machine. And I'm still on 32bit firefox because lazy.
• 2429[16:08:46] <prahou> with how many tabs open?
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• 2431[16:09:00] <jelly> maybe 60-100
• 2432[16:09:02] <PMT> "lazy"? Isn't it harder not to run the native arch version?
• 2433[16:09:21] <jelly> lazy, as in have not reinstalled OS since 2001
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• 2435[16:09:50] <jelly> still a 32bit debian, with just a 64bit kernel
• 2436[16:10:20] <PMT> That's quite the setup. I haven't run something like that in a long time.
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• 2438[16:10:34] <prahou> do you just upgrade the hardware then?
• 2439[16:10:38] <PMT> (and when I did, it caused some excitement with interacting with certain drivers...)
• 2440[16:11:19] <jelly> hardware has been upgraded about 5-6 times, OS releases about the same. It was Debian 2.1 or maybe 2.2 installation, now it's Debian 10
• 2441[16:11:26] <jelly> !release history
• 2442[16:11:26] <dpkg> Named after "Toy Story" characters. Buzz(1.1; 1996-03-14), Rex(1.2; 1996-10-28), Bo(1.3; 1997-05-01), Hamm(2.0; 1998-07-24), Slink(2.1; 1999-03-09), Potato(2.2; 2000-08-15), Woody(3.0; 2002-07-19), Sarge(3.1; 2005-06-06), Etch(4.0; 2007-04-08), Lenny(5.0; 2009-02-14), Squeeze(6.0; 2011-02-06), Wheezy(7; 2013-05-04), Jessie(8; 2015-04-25), Stretch (9; 2017-06-17), Buster (10; 2019-07-06). Next: Bullseye. replaced-url
• 2443[16:11:52] <jelly> so 9 OS upgrades
• 2444[16:12:12] <prahou> great dedication to laziness :D
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• 2446[16:12:43] <jelly> why reinstall!
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• 2448[16:13:30] <prahou> Definitely! I think your example goes to show to what lengths you can go with the system
• 2449[16:13:30] <jelly> there are scripts to do an in-place crossgrade now
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• 2451[16:13:52] <jelly> so that may yet happen before i386 dies
• 2452[16:14:18] <PMT> Are there? That's _Exciting_
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• 2456[16:17:48] <Lope> jelly, PMT: ah, i realize where my ram went.
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• 2458[16:17:52] <PMT> Where?
• 2459[16:17:53] <Lope> ZFS ARC
• 2460[16:17:59] <PMT> Yeah, that would do it.
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• 2462[16:18:03] <Lope> Size 8G
• 2463[16:18:23] <Lope> so, 1G for programs, 8G for ARC
• 2464[16:18:59] <PMT> 8G for ARC on a 128G system seems undersized.
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• 2579[17:59:14] <ceqp90> cd
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• 2581[18:01:19] <PMT> ~ $
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• 2659[19:43:45] <CMoH|notebook> hey. i managed to clean /var on a brand new installed computer. is there any way to recreate a freshly installed /var folder from a ssh prompt? or do i need to go on location and reinstall from USB stick?
• 2660[19:44:11] <PMT> When you say "clean" do you mean "delete everything from"?
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• 2662[19:44:27] <CMoH|notebook> yeah... i didn't manage to lvresize -r, so i mkfs'ed a brand new var
• 2663[19:44:42] <PMT> Oh dear. That's unfortunate.
• 2664[19:44:44] <CMoH|notebook> slip of the mind... now i'm ssh'ed from home, and what do you know :D
• 2665[19:45:30] <PMT> This is a freshly installed computer, you said, right?
• 2666[19:45:34] <CMoH|notebook> anyway, i was thinking something like 'apt-get install --reinstall $(list-of-packages-of-pristine-install)'
• 2667[19:45:45] <CMoH|notebook> yeah, empty
• 2668[19:46:06] <PMT> I would suspect, but am not certain, that attempting to use apt-get right now will absolutely shit the bed because you deleted its entire database.
• 2669[19:46:36] <PMT> (I am positive that if it were going to work, you'd need to re-run apt-get update.)
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• 2671[19:46:47] <CMoH|notebook> i did. however, i don't know the package list
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• 2673[19:47:15] <CMoH|notebook> the installer seems to construct one via questions, but aside from openssh i did not install anything than defaults
• 2674[19:47:45] <PMT> If I were in your position, I would probably use debootstrap to make a new install in a dir somewhere, possibly chroot in and manually install additional packages (debootstrap, for example, will not necessarily install a bootloader or kernel package by default) and then plunder its /var. Or just plunder the entire install contents.
• 2675[19:47:55] *** Guest42860 is now known as catman370
• 2676[19:48:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 870
• 2677[19:48:22] <PMT> (Note that plundering the entire install contents will involve some customization to be bootable afterward.)
• 2678[19:48:24] <CMoH|notebook> well, anyway, if that does not have a quick answer, it might be quicker to just drive there and reinstall - thought i'd give it a try here first :)
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• 2684[19:49:03] <imMute> reinstalling is by far the safest option
• 2685[19:49:11] <PMT> This is true.
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• 2690[19:53:23] <CMoH|notebook> okay - thanks! btw, the problem was that i wanted to have a small /home and a big /var - i entered rescue shell from debian install CD, but lvresize -r failed with some "fsadm" missing
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• 2709[20:20:17] <isapgswell> hi
• 2710[20:20:37] <isapgswell> why debian/ubuntu has X mouse acceleration via xset and Xorg acceleration too ?
• 2711[20:21:50] <isapgswell> gnome-shell too
• 2712[20:22:06] <isapgswell> i usually do: xset m 0/1 0
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• 2714[20:24:38] <isapgswell> and set flat mouse acceleration via gnome-tweaks
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• 2788[20:41:05] <isapgswell> we dont need X mouse acceleration, gnome-shell mouse acceleration and whatever mouse acceleration for default
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• 2802[20:50:59] <isapgswell> any idea how to disable mouse/touchpad with gdm??
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• 2809[20:57:22] <jhutchins> isapgswell: Why?
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• 2811[20:58:00] <isapgswell> khutchins input lag
• 2812[20:58:17] <isapgswell> jhutchings input lag, imprecision
• 2813[20:58:27] <isapgswell> jhutchins no precision
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• 2815[20:58:36] <jhutchins> isapgswell: Why do you think gdm is causing that?
• 2816[20:58:59] <jhutchins> isapgswell: If you disable it via gdm, how will you use it?
• 2817[20:59:30] <isapgswell> jhutchins coz its still alive and now we have both xorg running after logged session
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• 2822[21:02:47] <jhutchins> I'm afraid I'm not understanding you clearly.
• 2823[21:02:50] <jhutchins> !br
• 2824[21:02:50] <dpkg> Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br on irc.oftc.net (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues. - replaced-url
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• 2827[21:04:21] <isapgswell> jhutchins dual xorg running, do you understand?
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• 2829[21:05:43] <jhutchins> isapgswell: That what you appeared to say, but I still don't understand your situation, and I'm not very familiar with tuning X or mice.
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• 2833[21:07:00] <isapgswell> jhutchins i would like to have only one xorg access to mouse/touchpad
• 2834[21:07:02] <jhutchins> Do you have two different user sessions?
• 2835[21:07:44] <isapgswell> jhutchins no only 1 user session, but i am on ondemand nvidia proprietary profile
• 2836[21:08:13] <isapgswell> jhutchins optimus
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• 2854[21:18:05] <jhutchins> isapgswell: Sorry, I don't have any experience with optimus.
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• 2857[21:18:48] <isapgswell> jhutchins ok :) thank you
• 2858[21:19:05] <somiaj> Yea, many of us just know to avoid it due to complications, though bullseye now deals with it diferently with prime or some such tool
• 2859[21:19:19] <somiaj> replaced-url
• 2860[21:20:17] <isapgswell> nomiaj i tried, but with external monitor black screen
• 2861[21:20:34] <somiaj> isapgswell: are you still on buster?
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• 2864[21:21:33] <isapgswell> somiaj i tried some weeks with bullseye, because of that now i switched to ubuntu 20.04
• 2865[21:22:20] <isapgswell> somiaj my hdmi external connection is linked into nvidia
• 2866[21:22:31] <somiaj> so are you asking for support for ubuntu right now?
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• 2868[21:23:01] <somiaj> nvidia + optimus with prime render offload is supose to mostly work out of the box with bullseye once you install the pripority drivers.
• 2869[21:23:55] <isapgswell> somiaj my question is that with ondemand nvidia profile (optimus), we have dual xorg running and i would like to disable mouse/touchpad related to gdm/xorg
• 2870[21:24:15] <isapgswell> somiaj and permissive with xorg userland
• 2871[21:24:28] <somiaj> if you are running ubuntu, your question should use ubuntu support, which is better with their forums than irc
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• 2873[21:24:55] <somiaj> but xinput can disable mice, and I belive you can do this in an xorg.conf file too
• 2874[21:24:57] <funabashi> Hi I, how do I restart/reload apparmor ?
• 2875[21:25:56] <isapgswell> somiaj gdm/xorg is any distro related, i would like to disable mouse/touchpad only on login screex xorg instance
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• 2877[21:26:45] <isapgswell> somiaj i dont want to disable user logged mouse/touchpad
• 2878[21:26:52] <somiaj> isapgswell: this is a debian support channel, not an gnome/xorg support channel, we support users running debian pure blends.
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• 2880[21:27:05] <somiaj> !ubuntu
• 2881[21:27:06] <dpkg> Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on chat.freenode.net instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
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• 2883[21:28:11] <jhutchins> isapgswell: What will work on debian can break ubuntu.
• 2884[21:28:15] <isapgswell> funabashi maybe via systemctl
• 2885[21:28:53] <isapgswell> somiaj ok thanks for direction
• 2886[21:28:58] <isapgswell> jhutchins thank you
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• 2889[21:30:40] <jhutchins> isapgswell: You're welcome, good luck!
• 2890[21:31:25] <funabashi> isapgswell: Failed to restart apparmor.service: Unit apparmor.service not found.
• 2891[21:31:46] <wyatt8740> apt-get install apparmor if you want it
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• 2893[21:32:02] <wyatt8740> it's not currently installed it sounds like
• 2894[21:32:47] <funabashi> wyatt8740: strange i have apparmor files when its not installed ..
• 2895[21:32:48] <wyatt8740> the 'apparmor' package supplies /lib/systemd/system/apparmor.service - since you seem to be using systemd
• 2896[21:33:00] <wyatt8740> which apparmor files do you have?
• 2897[21:33:15] <wyatt8740> there are some that come with the linux kernel and headers
• 2898[21:33:55] <wyatt8740> and some packages that have provisions for apparmor but that don't require it (so if you don't use apparmor the sw still works, but if you have apparmor it can use it properly)
• 2899[21:33:58] <funabashi> # systemctl start apparmor and i find nothing when i do ps aux | grep app
• 2900[21:34:06] <wyatt8740> yeah you need to install apparmor
• 2901[21:34:11] <funabashi> its done
• 2902[21:34:33] <wyatt8740> I haven't got systemd init so I'll have to check what the apparmor.service file looks like, one sec
• 2903[21:34:39] <PMT> it's not a persistent daemon, I believe.
• 2904[21:35:04] <PMT> The apparmor.service says in its description it just "loads apparmor profiles"
• 2905[21:35:14] <wyatt8740> ok so it calls '/lib/apparmor/apparmor.systemd'
• 2906[21:35:18] <wyatt8740> yep
• 2907[21:35:22] <wyatt8740> what PMT said
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• 2909[21:35:48] <funabashi> thanks
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• 2912[21:37:17] <wyatt8740> and all that apparmor.systemd does for 'start' is the start_apparmor function defined in /lib/apparmor/rc.apparmor.functions
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• 2914[21:37:32] <wyatt8740> sorry, apparmor_start
• 2915[21:37:59] <wyatt8740> basically if your kernel is configured for apparmor (debian's should be), you should be good to go
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• 2979[22:42:48] <arkho> replaced-url
• 2980[22:42:49] *** Parts: arkho (~ccc@replaced-ip) ("Leaving")
• 2981[22:45:05] <tzf> spammer !
• 2982[22:45:38] <sney> they left before they could suffer any consequences
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• 2984[22:46:26] <tzf> hehe, yeah
• 2985[22:46:47] <Angs> is there any tool to see how many packages there are on a debian repo per architecture?
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• 3022[23:05:13] <shla> getting 403 on replaced-url
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• 3024[23:06:20] <cybrNaut> shla: works for me over Tor. Try using Tor
• 3025[23:06:28] <sney> shla: some ip ranges are blocked because of abuse. email wiki@debian.org for access, or use a different vpn/tunnel, as appropriate for your situation
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• 3030[23:10:09] <shla> thanks
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• 3035[23:12:53] <cybrNaut> i emailed a bug report and it never posted. how long might it take?
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• 3037[23:13:13] <PMT> How long ago?
• 3038[23:13:39] <cybrNaut> a day or two ago
• 3039[23:13:49] <cybrNaut> will there be an emacs acknowlegment?
• 3040[23:13:58] <PMT> emacs?
• 3041[23:14:01] <sney> it is usually <1 day IME, you might want to check your spam or mail.log for a bounce if it's been that long
• 3042[23:14:16] <PMT> There are email acknowledgements, yes.
• 3043[23:14:29] <cybrNaut> not emacs
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• 3060[23:33:25] <somiaj> cybrNaut: what package did you report it against?
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• 3065[23:36:52] <cybrNaut> cryptsetup
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• 3074[23:47:25] <nurupo> emacs acknowlegment :D
• 3075[23:47:34] <somiaj> cybrNaut: and what was the title of the bug?
• 3076[23:48:14] <somiaj> well nevermind, newest bug I see for that package is Thu, 13 May
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• 3078[23:48:37] <somiaj> cybrNaut: didn't you use some privacy method to repor the bug, maybe the email wans't formed correctly, but usually only takes aobut a day to get some response
• 3079[23:48:56] *** Quits: catman370 (~catman@replaced-ip) (Quit: See you later..)
• 3080[23:50:10] <cybrNaut> somiaj: i did not use mixmaster, which is what i used in the past but it became unreliable so i no longer use it
• 3081[23:50:38] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3082[23:51:08] <cybrNaut> i used a webmail account at mail2tor, and that may also be dicey. But i got no bounce back
• 3083[23:52:24] <cybrNaut> replaced-url
• 3084[23:52:55] <somiaj> Could be an issue with that, but unsure there
• 3085[23:53:23] *** Quits: vampirefrog (~vampirefr@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 3086[23:56:37] <sney> debian mailservers don't do a lot of spam control, but I could see them being stricter about mails originating from tor exit nodes
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