• 0[00:00:00] <ryouma> so maybe -6 and -7 are not versions, but stacking sequence or something, so taht -7 uses -6 and also puts -7 on top of it? just guessing here. idk what these version nuymbers signify.
• 1[00:00:14] <ksk> mhhm, strange. not sure how the system can boot if the initrd only contains some microcode. Maybe ask at another time, I think right now is the transition in between "eu going to bed" and "america waking up" ;)
• 2[00:00:32] <ksk> yeah, I was thinking the same.
• 3[00:00:39] <ryouma> hehe
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• 6[00:00:58] <ryouma> but there is no -1 -2 -3 etc.
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• 9[00:01:13] <ksk> but, as far as I knw you specify the initrd in the grub commandline, and I dont think you specify more then one..
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• 12[00:02:00] <ksk> maybe take a look at /boot/grub/grub.cfg (search for initrd)
• 13[00:02:29] <ksk> my system seems a little outdated, so I just have -6 installed..
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• 15[00:02:50] <ryouma> some menu entries contain -6 and some -7
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• 19[00:03:54] <ksk> someone over at linux (you shall not crosspost!) states there is an initrd after the microcode somewhere
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• 28[00:09:38] <ryouma> yup. actually the conversation /morphed/ into a crosspost.\
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• 30[00:09:51] <ryouma> but i am still trying to undersatnd it
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• 32[00:10:27] <ryouma> (i.e. i was asking a gunzip question)
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• 108[01:04:11] <parliament> I noticed when upgrading my squeeze server to testing that the config reconciliation process left ufw *disabled* after dist-upgrade finished. does anyone know if the iptables rules are still effective even if "ufw status" reports that it's inactive?
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• 112[01:05:23] <parliament> my server gets hammered all of the time and it runs a ridiculously insecure http server which is normally blocked to the outside world by firewall rules..
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• 119[01:10:17] <t3st3r> parliament> what does iptables -L says?
• 120[01:10:51] <t3st3r> if rules are here, they're here. If they're not, well, ok...
• 121[01:11:02] <rwp> parliament, When you upgraded from Squeeze 7 to Testing Buster 10 did you do so by upgrading first to Wheezy 7, then to Jessie 8, then to Stretch 9, then to Buster 10?
• 122[01:11:05] <rwp> parliament, Or did you just directly from Squeeze 7 to Buster 10 without stops in between?
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• 153[01:35:12] <Henry151> hello #debian
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• 155[01:35:48] <Henry151> I just noticed a process running called avahi-daemon: chroot helper that i hadn't noticed before
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• 157[01:35:53] <Henry151> is this normal?
• 158[01:35:54] <ryouma> rwp: i thought there was a sarge in there someplace
• 159[01:36:18] <ryouma> not that it makes a difference to your point
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• 163[01:40:43] <Henry151> any thoughts? just seemed odd that i'd never noticed it before
• 164[01:40:53] <Henry151> I am not running any service called "avahi" that i'm aware of
• 165[01:41:18] <rwp> ryouma, LOL! Sarge 3.1 would have been before parliament's Squeeze 6. (And did I say Squeeze 7? I should have had Wheezy 7 in there.)
• 166[01:41:35] <ryouma> parliament?
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• 168[01:41:38] <ryouma> oh
• 169[01:41:57] <ryouma> well, an s word anyway
• 170[01:41:58] <rwp> I fear that parliament probably upgraded directly to Testing 10 skipping the intervening releases, resulting in a broken upgrade.
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• 173[01:44:14] <rwp> Henry151, avahi is a ZeroConf implementation. One that I find problematic. Breaks my DNS. I always purge it. But it is installed by default for those that use it.
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• 175[01:45:28] <rwp> ,v avahi-daemon
• 176[01:45:29] <judd> Package: avahi-daemon on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.6.31-2; jessie: 0.6.31-5; stretch: 0.6.32-2; buster: 0.7-4+b1; sid: 0.7-4+b1
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• 178[01:46:27] <rwp> Henry151, Reference: replaced-url
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• 180[01:47:01] <Henry151> thanks
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• 253[02:53:17] <yokowka> rant, heavenO brother!!!!
• 254[02:54:48] <yokowka> eny soul seen hyskary?
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• 259[02:59:07] <yokowka> brothers when will stretch 10 appear?
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• 267[03:03:54] <LtL> yokowka: v10 will be Buster, and no one knows. Maybe a few months... at least.
• 268[03:04:26] <LtL> stretch is version 9
• 269[03:04:34] <yokowka> LtL, be you bless!!!!
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• 281[03:12:29] <ryouma> ooh just realized today is the deadline for new packages for buster!
• 282[03:12:32] <ryouma> (i think)
• 283[03:13:09] <Iarfen> hi!
• 284[03:13:24] <Iarfen> how I can do that some user can use an application owned by a group without adding it to that group?
• 285[03:13:46] <Iarfen> I'm trying to avoid to use sudo when I need to execute that application
• 286[03:13:54] <agio> ryouma: are you saying buster is on a feature-freeze/not accepting new packages - in preparation for finally going stable?
• 287[03:15:09] <ryouma> more or less, afair
• 288[03:15:32] <agio> wow
• 289[03:15:33] <ryouma> you have to migrate packages; the hard freeze i /think/ will be no more new packages
• 290[03:16:03] <ryouma> presumably the rlease person can approve stuff after that but presumably that is rare
• 291[03:16:47] <agio> migrate? you mean convert the packages from stretch to buster? isn't that what unstable/test is all about?
• 292[03:17:23] <ryouma> no. the freeze will be when you can't put new packages in. but packages have to stick aroudn for a while before they go in.
• 293[03:17:31] <ryouma> so today
• 294[03:17:35] <ryouma> (iirc)
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• 296[03:17:55] <themill> It hasn't been accepting new packages for some weeks
• 297[03:18:02] <ryouma> oh?
• 298[03:18:15] <ryouma> then the wiki was out of date when i read it i think
• 299[03:18:24] <themill> updated packages with cherry-picked fixes at the discretion of the maintainer have been OK until now
• 300[03:18:31] <agio> so in other words the freeze is when packages stop getting accepted from unstable into testing?
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• 302[03:19:04] <themill> replaced-url
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• 304[03:19:11] <yokowka> from few month will be buster, will it be stable version?
• 305[03:19:19] <ryouma> no basically now or a few weeks ago depending on whether new or uipgraded i guess
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• 308[03:19:42] <ryouma> yokowka: when it is ready
• 309[03:20:18] <yokowka> ryouma, but now unstable version is??
• 310[03:20:31] <ryouma> themill: thanks that is much more detailed
• 311[03:20:57] <LtL> yokowka: replaced-url
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• 313[03:21:29] <yokowka> LtL, be you bless!!!!
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• 316[03:23:25] <yokowka> what is name of rus debian chanel in irc?
• 317[03:23:55] <agio> so what is the recommended way to release-upgrade from stretch to buster? modify /etc/apt/source.list archives and apt update + dist-upgrade, or re-install ?
• 318[03:24:15] *** Quits: thunderrd (~thunderrd@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 319[03:24:20] <ryouma> agio: there is always a manual
• 320[03:24:28] <LtL> yokowka: russian? #debian-ru
• 321[03:24:32] <ryouma> agio: but the former
• 322[03:24:38] <ryouma> (basically)
• 323[03:24:57] <yokowka> LtL, be you bless.
• 324[03:25:12] <ryouma> agio: there is actually a lot of stuff to do if you want to be really particular
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• 326[03:26:42] <agio> ryouma: so, if you want to be particular - but don't want to do alot of stuff - then wipe your system partition and do a full re-install?
• 327[03:27:15] <LtL> agio: your first idea will work. Best to read the release notes prior to dist-upgrade though.
• 328[03:27:19] <ryouma> agio: sounds drastic
• 329[03:27:43] <agio> but reliable, right?
• 330[03:28:08] <ryouma> agio: being particular means warning users etc.
• 331[03:28:30] *** Joins: uNmowed (~Kaede@replaced-ip)
• 332[03:28:36] <ryouma> should be yes but then you have to recreate your home dirs etc.
• 333[03:28:48] <LtL> most dist-upgrades are 'reliable' again read the release upgrade docs first.
• 334[03:28:52] <yokowka> brothers, my system says that number of broken sectors of hard disk is increase, can it be fixed??
• 335[03:29:09] <themill> yokowka: only with money
• 336[03:29:37] *** Joins: mns (~mns@replaced-ip)
• 337[03:29:54] <yokowka> themill, cost of it?
• 338[03:29:56] <ryouma> yokowka: most sysadmins will get new drives. some home users will use things like badblocks to write to the drive to see if it makes the drive undersand that sectors cannot be used, or similar
• 339[03:30:27] <ryouma> at the very least, run badbkocks and fsck and stuff like that
• 340[03:30:51] <yokowka> ryouma, and this will fix the brokenes of disk??
• 341[03:31:01] <ryouma> lol -- sometimes :)
• 342[03:31:14] <ryouma> drives are unreliable
• 343[03:31:16] <yokowka> but other times??
• 344[03:31:34] <themill> If this data is valuable enough to be worried about these problems, you would have good backups already... (hint)
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• 346[03:31:55] <yokowka> i hear
• 347[03:32:11] <agio> maybe it just makes a table/mappings of which blocks are bad - and tell the filesystem not to use them from now on
• 348[03:32:32] <agio> or does the disk's firmware controller do that?
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• 353[03:33:49] <ryouma> this is an /excellent/ resource replaced-url
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• 355[03:34:21] <ryouma> agio: there are both issues
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• 357[03:34:28] <ryouma> badblocks takes care of both
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• 359[03:36:07] <agio> do you know, when I run the command "umount <some filesystem>" - does umount sync the disk's write cache - in other words, once "sync" runs and "0" exits , can I safely remove the disk?
• 360[03:36:33] <toruvinn> agio, yeah umount should sync it.
• 361[03:36:37] <toruvinn> that was my experience.
• 362[03:36:45] <agio> how do you know?
• 363[03:36:51] <LtL> i always sync to be safe
• 364[03:37:09] <toruvinn> agio, i know because umount takes a while and sync right after does not. ;-)
• 365[03:37:13] <agio> does the sync command - by default - sync all disks on the system?
• 366[03:37:19] <toruvinn> also umount causes a lot of i/o, so...
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• 368[03:37:40] <toruvinn> replaced-url
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• 370[03:38:00] <toruvinn> there you are, along with the tips on where to check in the sauce, Luke
• 371[03:38:08] <LtL> agio: i would think it flushes all data in caches, and you're golden.
• 372[03:39:46] *** Quits: wald0 (~wald0@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
• 373[03:40:36] <ryouma> til dstat
• 374[03:41:25] <toruvinn> lemme apt-get install it ;-)
• 375[03:41:33] <toruvinn> i still just use {vm,io}stat
• 376[03:42:02] *** Quits: SickzZ (~SickzZ@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
• 377[03:42:06] <toruvinn> my brain still just remembers iostat -m 2 (and -x if needed)
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• 379[03:42:17] <toruvinn> s/brian/muscle memory/
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• 384[03:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1486
• 385[03:44:01] <ryouma> well til i don't udnerstand dstat any more than i understand vmstat and such
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• 387[03:44:31] <agio> but does iostat actually see cache writes ? as they are occurring on the device itself? and e.g. not between a kernel buffer and disk...
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• 413[04:03:56] <ritalinona> my ethernet and wifi suddenly stopped working, I restarted NetworkManager, I restarted the router, I swapped ethernet cords, and tested that the cord I have works and it does, and I've also booted a live debian session - on the same hardware - and I was able to get a connection, yet am still not able to get a connection on the installation I have. Any ideas of things I can do?
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• 415[04:04:44] <ritalinona> I thought maybe I could fix it by reinstalling the network manager but that ofc would require an internet connection
• 416[04:06:18] <well_laid_lawn> check the devices still exist in lspci
• 417[04:06:45] <toruvinn> technically it may not require it since the package is cached in /var/cache/apt/archives, but somehow i doubt this'll help. i dont use networkmanager, but im afraid it'd be a good idea to provide some debug logs, stuff like what was in your dmesg (did interfaces lose link?), maybe logs from networkmanager itself...
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• 421[04:10:31] <ritalinona> well_laid_lawn: the device does exist
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• 423[04:10:40] <ritalinona> let me see about the dmesg
• 424[04:10:52] <well_laid_lawn> and check rfkill
• 425[04:11:09] *** Quits: SickzZ (~SickzZ@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 426[04:11:12] <toruvinn> it'd be helpful to see the dmesg output from when it stopped working, from that os ;-) meaning if you can get to the other system's /var/log it could probably help
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• 430[04:12:12] <ritalinona> I think I might have a hard time with that since I'm on a different computer, and can't connect to irc from there. But Ill do my best to summerize
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• 432[04:12:52] <toruvinn> i thought you ran debian live on the same system.
• 433[04:13:25] <ritalinona> oh wait a min. I disconnected the ethernet and now the wifi is working
• 434[04:13:34] <ritalinona> oh no actually I stand corrected
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• 436[04:13:41] <ritalinona> its says its connected like ethernet
• 437[04:13:53] <ritalinona> but I still cant connect
• 438[04:14:15] <ritalinona> toruvinn: yes I did do that, I'm back on the main os now
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• 444[04:15:04] <ritalinona> rfkill says: 3 wlan phy3 unblocked unblocked
• 445[04:15:11] <well_laid_lawn> k
• 446[04:16:12] <yokowka> brothers how to see list of channels?
• 447[04:16:53] <well_laid_lawn> try /msg alis !list
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• 450[04:17:17] <ritalinona> dmesg doesn't show anything of note
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• 455[04:19:35] <ritalinona> dmesg does show link up when I reinsert the ethernet cable
• 456[04:19:38] <yokowka> well_laid_lawn, be bless
• 457[04:20:21] <yokowka> list
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• 466[04:24:43] <unborn> - hi everyone.. Im back - couple of weeks I've asked about the ssd and swap/ 12 gigs of ram and i7 4th gen cpu - I would like to give my feedback out. it did turned out swap was still used - it was 128 megs..... there was a guy who recommended me to use swap - guy - thank you so much!
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• 469[04:25:48] <unborn> - also swap part. made my system even faster.. (given hands on ssd)
• 470[04:25:51] <unborn> thanks
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• 478[04:31:16] <toruvinn> ritalinona, well if that works then you'll have to wait for someone who knows NetworkManager, i never touched that. but i wonder what you did that they "suddenly stopped working". both at the same time?
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• 480[04:31:25] <toruvinn> or did you actually plug ethernet in which wasnt there in the first place?
• 481[04:31:43] <toruvinn> and then got a huge routing messup with two dhcps on two different interfaces
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• 487[04:33:47] <ritalinona> eh I had everything set up and working on some stuff nothing unusual, left it sitting for a night, and the next days I returned to no internet access even though the network manager shows that its connected
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• 489[04:34:32] <ritalinona> and I just made double sure that my firewall is down so its not that
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• 494[04:38:20] <ritalinona> oh, okay this is interesting
• 495[04:38:24] <ritalinona> I can ping
• 496[04:38:40] <ritalinona> still can't connect with a browser to anything though
• 497[04:38:40] <yokowka> brothers, how to make tiling interface on debian stretch?
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• 499[04:40:12] <toruvinn> ritalinona, sounds like DNS not network issue
• 500[04:40:23] <toruvinn> ritalinona, if you can ping random outside IP addresses, then check your dns servers
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• 503[04:43:23] <ritalinona> okay I checked /etc/resolv.conf and added 8.8.8.8 but that unsuccessful
• 504[04:44:03] <ritalinona> also I restart networkmanager again
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• 508[04:45:53] <ritalinona> ok I took all the other ones out accept 8.8.8.8, I can resolve domains now but still can't reach duckduckgo
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• 510[04:46:32] <ritalinona> andd I can't resolve duckduckgo.com
• 511[04:46:36] <ritalinona> that explains that
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• 513[04:47:27] <rwp> yokowka, For tiling window managers I like the "i3" window manager. :-)
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• 516[04:48:24] <rwp> ritalinona, On Microsoft the 'ping' command is about the only debugging aid available for DNS. But on Debian we have 'dig' which is much better for providing debug information.
• 517[04:49:02] <rwp> ritalinona, To look up an address try using something like: dig @8.8.8.8 duckduckgo.com a
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• 521[04:49:40] <rwp> Some problems are obvious, others less so, but the information there is much better for both expert and novice to debug DNS problems.
• 522[04:50:09] <ritalinona> dig shows expected output
• 523[04:50:14] <ritalinona> it resolved duckduckgo
• 524[04:50:22] <rwp> Also a lot of problems are connectivity problems where between IPv4 and IPv6 only one of them works.
• 525[04:50:59] <rwp> Cool! Then you know that intrinsically things _can_ work. Now can do A-B comparison until you find the problem and fix it.
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• 527[04:52:04] <rwp> ritalinona, What is in your /etc/nsswitch.conf for the "hosts" line? Try: grep hosts /etc/nsswitch.conf
• 528[04:52:13] <rwp> Mine says: hosts: files dns
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• 530[04:52:55] <ritalinona> files mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] dns
• 531[04:53:12] <rwp> Another low level debug is to use 'getent' to print out the libc entries directly. That prints out exactly what the system returns. Try: getent hosts duckduckgo.com
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• 536[04:54:21] <rwp> In your file "files" is /etc/hosts, dns is the "nameserver" entry in /etc/resolv.conf, and "mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return]" is from Avahi's ZeroConf Bonjour software.
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• 539[04:55:27] <ritalinona> oh so are you saying it doesn't know what 8.8.8.8 is
• 540[04:55:38] <ritalinona> is the /etc/resolve.conf
• 541[04:55:44] <ritalinona> *resolv.conf
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• 543[04:56:14] <rwp> In /etc/resolv.conf the nameserver line specifies nameservers to the libc "resolver" module.
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• 546[04:57:07] <rwp> On my system grep nameserver /etc/resolv.conf returns "nameserver 127.0.0.1" because I have a local caching daemon.
• 547[04:57:12] <rwp> But if you want "nameserver 8.8.8.8" then that is what would need to be there.
• 548[04:57:53] <rwp> But you said you are using Network Manager. Is this a typical DHCP system where it gets the address from the LAN? If so then NetworkManager should be setting it according to the DHCP provided nameserver information.
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• 552[04:58:49] <rwp> If your router/dhcp server is configured properly (do other things work okay?) then it will be providing NM a working nameserver and NM should be listing it in /etc/resolv.conf as it happens. Editing that file by hand usually gets overwritten by NM when it updates the file.
• 553[04:59:28] <ritalinona> yeas I did but namesever 8.8.8.8 in there
• 554[04:59:40] <ritalinona> other devices are working okay, yes
• 555[05:00:11] <rwp> It's in there? Then what does "getent hosts duckduckgo.com" say? Does that return the right address? It should. If not the problem is very close to there. Typo?
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• 557[05:00:39] <ritalinona> it shows three ips
• 558[05:00:42] <rwp> For example (not to be mean) but you said "namesever 8.8.8.8" and that would be a typo if that is literally what is in the file. :-)
• 559[05:00:45] <ritalinona> what is the ip I'm looking for?
• 560[05:00:49] <ritalinona> duckduckgo?
• 561[05:01:01] <rwp> It shows three IPs? Good! Then it is working, right?
• 562[05:01:10] <ritalinona> no :/
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• 565[05:01:30] <ritalinona> wait
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• 567[05:01:44] <rwp> I only see two IPs in my location. But it might be geographically presenting different addresses.
• 568[05:01:46] <ritalinona> what do you mean nameserver 8.8.8.8 is a typo
• 569[05:01:50] <ritalinona> thats what the others use
• 570[05:02:05] <rwp> You said "namesever" missing an 'r' there. It should have been "nameserver". :-)
• 571[05:02:08] <ritalinona> oh wait
• 572[05:02:13] <ritalinona> okay got it nvm
• 573[05:02:22] <ritalinona> missed that
• 574[05:02:25] <ritalinona> yeah were good theere
• 575[05:02:28] <ritalinona> *there
• 576[05:02:50] <rwp> No worries. I make a lot of typos on IRC. Typing fast and furious. And after hitting Enter there is no way to delete it! :-)
• 577[05:03:11] <ritalinona> lol yeah thats me all the time
• 578[05:03:29] <ritalinona> okay back to what you said about correct ips for duckduckgo
• 579[05:03:42] <ritalinona> idk off the top of my head duckduckgo ips
• 580[05:03:50] <ritalinona> but they're resolving
• 581[05:03:58] <ritalinona> doesn't that mean it works
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• 583[05:04:32] <rwp> Try it with a raw low level tool. Do you see HTML output from this? Try: wget -O- duckduckgo.com
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• 585[05:05:00] <rwp> Because AFAIK duckduckgo.com blocks ping so it can't be ping'd.
• 586[05:05:10] <ritalinona> yes
• 587[05:05:12] <ritalinona> I do
• 588[05:05:35] <rwp> Other sites are more useful for debugging. Debian's servers can be ping'd. Try: ping -c3 replaced-url
• 589[05:05:58] <ritalinona> yup that works
• 590[05:06:01] <rwp> If wget is returning output then the only problem left can be your web browser. Perhaps it is cached something.
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• 592[05:06:47] <rwp> Web browsers caching data has been the problem of using web browsers for debugging. One is always clearing the cache and restarting and having problems!
• 593[05:07:10] <rwp> Which is why we always suggest using tools without memory such as wget or curl for debugging web problems and debugging.
• 594[05:07:22] <ritalinona> lol yup I'm able to connect to the tor browser
• 595[05:07:23] <ritalinona> ha
• 596[05:07:32] <ritalinona> so what reinstall firefox?
• 597[05:07:51] <ritalinona> god can't believe I didn't try that
• 598[05:07:56] <rwp> Definitely exit Firefox. ps -ef | grep firefox and make sure nothing is running. Then start it again fresh. Test again.
• 599[05:08:49] <ritalinona> fuck
• 600[05:08:49] <rwp> We confuse ourselves all of the time. That is why starting at the bottom and working through the layers carefully one part at a time is so important. To remove the confusion and simplify.
• 601[05:08:52] <ritalinona> that worked
• 602[05:09:25] <ritalinona> yeah thats a good call, I'll remember that
• 603[05:09:32] <ritalinona> thanks rwp
• 604[05:09:39] <rwp> Welcome to the group of people that will never trust the web browser again. We always use other low level tools to verify the parts are working.
• 605[05:09:55] <ritalinona> lol yeah seriously
• 606[05:10:11] <rwp> The rule is see one, do one, teach one. Next time you can pay it forward by helping someone else out with that exact same problem. :-)
• 607[05:10:32] <ritalinona> I will :3
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• 610[05:12:29] <pingfloyd> trust the browser? XSS should be enough to not trust it.
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• 614[05:13:14] <pingfloyd> the problem is everyone else trusts browsers
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• 642[05:33:44] <pingfloyd> Here's why you don't buy Lenovo replaced-url
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• 657[05:59:04] <Lady_Aleena> Hello. I am thinking about finally upgrading to Stretch, but I am a little lost. The link given to me by dpkg is more than a little dense. I would like to know the bare bones of what I need to do. I have ran update and upgrade twice. I have backed up all my really important files. I haven't updated my sources.list yet, and would like someone to take a peek at my jessie one to tell me if there are any lines that need more significant
• 658[05:59:04] <Lady_Aleena> changes. (replaced-url
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• 662[06:00:10] <Deihmos> i have 8GB ram. debian is creating 8Gb swap
• 663[06:00:17] <Deihmos> do you think that is neccessary?
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• 665[06:00:28] <whislock> Deihmos: Depends on what you're doing with the system.
• 666[06:00:40] <Deihmos> nothing major
• 667[06:00:47] <whislock> That isn't descriptive.
• 668[06:00:53] <Deihmos> probable wouldn't even use 1gb
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• 670[06:01:08] <Deihmos> run a plex server and other media stuff
• 671[06:01:09] <dvs> Lady_Aleena, replaced-url
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• 675[06:01:43] <dvs> Deihmos, if it's a server then yes.
• 676[06:01:47] <Lady_Aleena> dva, I tried to wade through that. It isn't a command by command list.
• 677[06:01:49] <whislock> Deihmos: So, in most cases, I follow the "storage is cheap" adage. Is a few gigs of storage going to be a major impact?
• 678[06:03:22] *** Quits: kouni (~kouni@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 679[06:03:46] <Lady_Aleena> dvs, what about the sources list that I pasted?
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• 683[06:06:11] <dvs> Lady_Aleena, on an upgrade, the only source that should be used is the main source.
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• 687[06:08:16] <Lady_Aleena> I'll stick with jessie for now since stretch is a pain to upgrade to.
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• 689[06:09:18] <dvs> buster is around the corner
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• 691[06:09:56] <Lady_Aleena> Will it come with 99.99% simpler instructions?
• 692[06:10:17] <dvs> doubt it
• 693[06:10:40] <dvs> the instruction will only have instructions to upgrade from stretch
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• 695[06:11:06] <whislock> Lady_Aleena: What about the process is so confusing?
• 696[06:11:07] <Lady_Aleena> Well, the stretch instructions are a mess.
• 697[06:11:31] <Lady_Aleena> whislock, everything. There is no simple list in that page anywhere.
• 698[06:12:01] <whislock> Because it's a process, not a script. Trying to give a simple list of commands would no doubt break more than it would help.
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• 702[06:13:52] <Lady_Aleena> Well, I've back up everything I think is important. I'm ready to change sources.list, but I'm not sure if all the links and files groups and subgroups exist in stretch. So that is the next step I need help with. The link is above to the paste.
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• 704[06:14:54] <whislock> "links and files groups and subgroups" I have no idea what you're referring to here or what the concern is.
• 705[06:15:20] <Lady_Aleena> replaced-url
• 706[06:15:22] <dvs> To use this mirror with apt, you add this line to your sources.list file:
• 707[06:15:22] <dvs> deb replaced-url
• 708[06:15:23] <dvs> Note that the “dists” is added implicitly, and the arguments after the release name are used to expand the path into multiple directories.
• 709[06:15:23] <dvs> After adding your new sources, disable the previously existing “deb” lines in sources.list by placing a hash sign (#) in front of them.
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• 712[06:16:29] <Lady_Aleena> dvs, which line does that replace?
• 713[06:16:50] <dvs> The "jessie" line.
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• 715[06:17:10] <Lady_Aleena> "deb replaced-url
• 716[06:17:20] <dvs> yes
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• 718[06:17:23] <Lady_Aleena> line 2
• 719[06:17:42] <Lady_Aleena> Why not just change jessie to stretch in that line?
• 720[06:18:08] <whislock> No reason you can't. I suggest that people use the deb.debian.org mirrors anyway.
• 721[06:19:33] <Lady_Aleena> So, just change everything from "jessie" to "stretch", and my sources.list is good?
• 722[06:20:47] <whislock> Should be. You're not using any third-party repos, I assume.
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• 726[06:21:39] <Lady_Aleena> Not that I am aware of.
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• 728[06:23:31] <themill> last time we went through this, didn't we discover that you were?
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• 732[06:23:55] <Lady_Aleena> themill, how do I find out?
• 733[06:24:14] <themill> !show sources.list Lady_Aleena
• 734[06:24:14] <dpkg> Lady_Aleena: Please pastebin the contents of your /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*.list. The easiest way to do this is to pastebin the output of: head -v -n -0 /etc/apt/sources.list{,.d/*}
• 735[06:24:36] <dvs> themill, replaced-url
• 736[06:25:05] <themill> that wasn't what was requested, however.
• 737[06:25:07] <Lady_Aleena> old: replaced-url
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• 741[06:27:09] <Lady_Aleena> Result of head -v -n -0 /etc/apt/sources.list{,.d/*}: replaced-url
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• 744[06:28:15] <Lady_Aleena> Where'd the notepadqq list come from?
• 745[06:28:25] <themill> It's your machine. I didn't put it there.
• 746[06:29:00] <Lady_Aleena> I assume it was created when I installed notepadqq.
• 747[06:29:20] *** Joins: Sveta (~sveta@replaced-ip)
• 748[06:29:49] <Lady_Aleena> themill, is there anything in the last paste that suggests a 3rd party repo?
• 749[06:30:43] *** Joins: mplsjoker (rm-rf@replaced-ip)
• 750[06:30:46] <dvs> deb replaced-url
• 751[06:31:03] <whislock> Oh, nice. Ubuntu PPAs on Debian. That can't possibly go wrong.
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• 754[06:32:30] <Lady_Aleena> By the way, distribution upgrades scare the crap out of me.
• 755[06:32:52] *** Joins: NeilHanlon22 (~NeilHanlo@replaced-ip)
• 756[06:32:54] <Sveta> I'm sharing wifi over ethernet in nmtui as a bridge, it seems active but the other machine that receives internet from the ethernet says that the host is not found and there is 100% pocket loss
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• 759[06:34:03] <Sveta> replaced-url
• 760[06:34:05] <at0m> Sveta: running the wifi as an access point?
• 761[06:34:47] <Sveta> at0m: my modem is an AP, this computer receives this wifi and shares it via ethernet
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• 764[06:35:13] <Sveta> at0m: so this computer (computer A) becomes an AP for computer which receives the data over ethernet (computer B)
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• 767[06:35:57] <at0m> Sveta: i found this to be the guide that Just Works for AP: replaced-url
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• 772[06:36:58] <at0m> in particular, how to set up the bridge
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• 778[06:41:35] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: if upgrades scare you, maybe cease the opportunity to lay out some backup scheme before the upgrade..
• 779[06:41:51] *** Quits: Tom-_ (~tomg@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 780[06:42:16] <at0m> then once backup succeeded, you shouldn't feel too nervous about the rest of the process
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• 785[06:48:34] <Sveta> at0m: I already have the wireless connection, doing it in networkmanager not in /etc/network/interfaces
• 786[06:49:11] <Sveta> at0m: I understand that the process which you described may work, but I don't think I can do it, it is too long
• 787[06:49:18] <at0m> Sveta: oki.. i don't have any experience with nm :/
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• 789[06:50:10] <Lady_Aleena> Does "deb replaced-url
• 790[06:50:18] *** Quits: Sollg3r (~ejakuk@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 791[06:50:22] <at0m> !sources.list
• 792[06:50:22] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Stretch" has three lines: "deb replaced-url
• 793[06:50:39] *** Quits: Snowyfox (63e6fd80@replaced-ip) (Quit: Page closed)
• 794[06:50:48] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: yes, contrib and non-free can be appended to taste or requirements
• 795[06:52:14] <Lady_Aleena> Are there no backports in stretch?
• 796[06:52:15] <at0m> ok no backports in the above.. but you can see these exist: replaced-url
• 797[06:52:48] <at0m> run apt update after modification of sources.list
• 798[06:53:10] *** Quits: kouni (~kouni@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 799[06:53:52] <Lady_Aleena> I'm checking the links like: replaced-url
• 800[06:54:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1478
• 801[06:54:24] <at0m> Sveta: in any case, you will need bridge-utils. and to be honest, that /etc/network/interfaces file is quite simple, no?
• 802[06:54:37] <Lady_Aleena> That looks different.
• 803[06:54:49] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: if some don't work, apt update will tell you
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• 805[06:56:33] <Lady_Aleena> Saving sources.list now. Will paste it before I run apt update.
• 806[06:57:00] <meltingwax> is it dangerous to run 'apt-get upgrade -y' under cron (for my docker images)? I imagine this is what auto-update does on desktop
• 807[06:57:19] <Lady_Aleena> New sources.list: replaced-url
• 808[06:57:44] <at0m> !unattended-upgrades
• 809[06:57:44] <dpkg> from memory, unattended-upgrades is a package for installing security upgrades automatically, unattended. See replaced-url
• 810[06:58:59] <Lady_Aleena> So, I just run "apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade" and sit back biting my nails?
• 811[06:59:15] *** Joins: kouni (~kouni@replaced-ip)
• 812[06:59:27] <themill> no
• 813[06:59:43] <Lady_Aleena> Is there something wrong with my sources.list?
• 814[07:00:02] <rwp> Hi Sveta! Your internet connection sharing can be either bridging or routing+dhcpd+nat. I usually use routing plus nat plus dhcpd. But strictly speaking bridging avoids the need for dhcpd & nat. The guide at0m pointed to you sets up dhcpd+nat.
• 815[07:00:20] <themill> Lady_Aleena: replaced-url
• 816[07:00:46] <at0m> rwp: actually, it bridges, no?
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• 819[07:02:19] <rwp> Hmm... The parts talking about dhcpd made me think otherwise. But now I see it does not actually set up dhcpd but simply talks about it.
• 820[07:03:02] <at0m> rwp: right, it still relies on external DHCP. and it bridges using replaced-url
• 821[07:07:06] *** Quits: ItsAVortex (~ItsAVorte@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 822[07:07:16] <Lady_Aleena> Here is /dev/sda1. 1K-blocks: 464209680; Used: 158295708; Available: 282310364; Use%: 36%; Mounted on: /
• 823[07:09:28] <Lady_Aleena> If it needs more than 270GB, I'm screwed.
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• 825[07:10:23] <johnjay> what do you need 270GB for? building gcc? XD
• 826[07:10:25] <Sveta> rwp, do you have a guide without nat?
• 827[07:10:39] *** Quits: windslown (~windslown@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 828[07:10:48] <rwp> Sveta, Sorry. I was mistaken. That guide uses bridging not nat.
• 829[07:10:53] <Sveta> it is just two laptops with one ethernet port each
• 830[07:11:01] <rwp> I saw it talking about dhcpd but it was talking about it and not setting it up.
• 831[07:11:22] <Sveta> I don't have my wifi connection in /etc/network/interfaces, and I already have the bridge set up in network manager
• 832[07:11:37] <Sveta> I would like it to start working if possible, without removing it and adding it to /etc/network/interfaces by hand
• 833[07:11:51] <themill> Lady_Aleena: it shouldn't, but that link tells you how to check and also what to do next.
• 834[07:12:10] <johnjay> speaking of networking. is /etc/network/interfaces the main startup file?
• 835[07:12:37] <johnjay> i'm trying to get this broken install on another box to rejoin the network when the router resets
• 836[07:12:41] <johnjay> instead of running dhclient every time
• 837[07:12:58] <at0m> johnjay: i prefer interfaces over networkmanager cos it has everything simple in one file. networkmanager is hokus-pokus to me.
• 838[07:13:02] <rwp> johnjay, It depends. It depends on if you are using ifupdown, in which case yes, or NetworkManager, in which case no.
• 839[07:13:25] <johnjay> ifdown is a different system to networkmanager?
• 840[07:13:40] <rwp> I also do not use NetworkManager. Because it often leaves networking offline during upgrades, disconnecting me from the remote server I am upgrading, requiring me to drive to get onto the console of it.
• 841[07:14:17] <rwp> Correct. ifupdown is the traditional Debian networking system. NetworkManager is the replacement from the Freedesktop/systemd folks.
• 842[07:14:50] <at0m> ifconfig is deprecated, afaik. replaced-url
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• 844[07:15:18] <johnjay> and systemd is in all debian right?
• 845[07:15:27] <johnjay> i heard it might be optional in buster but for stretch it's not optional?
• 846[07:15:38] <rwp> ifconfig is deprecated. We prefer 'ip' now. Such as "ip addr show" or the shorter abbreviation "ip a".
• 847[07:15:48] <rwp> (ifconfig is not related to ifupdown however)
• 848[07:16:06] <johnjay> yeah i rmember using ip addr before
• 849[07:16:10] <themill> using n-m is also unrelated to using systemd
• 850[07:16:12] <johnjay> that's network manager?
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• 852[07:16:23] <Sveta> rwp, i can't move myself from networkmanager to 'ip' or /etc/network/interfaces, because i'd need hand holding for that, and that requires working internet
• 853[07:16:38] <Sveta> so if there is some way to get bridge working with nm, i'd be a lot happier
• 854[07:16:39] <rwp> ip is unrelated to NetworkManager.
• 855[07:16:53] <rwp> One does not move from NetworkManager to ip. One would move from ifconfig to ip.
• 856[07:17:08] <Sveta> currently, wireless is working and is configured in networkmanager somewhere, all i'd like in addition to that is a working bridge
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• 860[07:18:22] <at0m> Sveta: did you apt-get install bridge-utils ?
• 861[07:18:26] *** Joins: dhiab (~dhiab@replaced-ip)
• 862[07:19:01] <johnjay> well i guess i should learn more about networkmanager
• 863[07:19:01] <at0m> Sveta: asking since i see bridge0 not br0 in your pastebin
• 864[07:19:07] <johnjay> and why it's not running dhclient or whatever
• 865[07:19:39] <johnjay> anytime my router resets or something it loses network access
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• 867[07:20:38] <johnjay> and i have to run dhclient as root to get it back
• 868[07:20:39] <Sveta> at0m: yes, bridg-utils is already installed
• 869[07:20:42] <Sveta> +e
• 870[07:20:44] <rwp> Sveta, You said you had the bridge set up in NetworkManager already. Perhaps you could share some details in a pastebin? This would do it: ip addr show | nc termbin.com 9999
• 871[07:20:46] <at0m> ok
• 872[07:20:49] <Lady_Aleena> The result of "sudo apt-get -o APT::Get::Trivial-Only=true dist-upgrade": replaced-url
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• 876[07:23:07] <rwp> Sveta, What is the output of: cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
• 877[07:23:50] *** Joins: jvava (~jvava@replaced-ip)
• 878[07:23:56] <themill> Lady_Aleena: did you run apt-get update yet?
• 879[07:24:05] *** Joins: HZun_ (~HZun@replaced-ip)
• 880[07:24:30] <Lady_Aleena> No.
• 881[07:24:55] <Lady_Aleena> Not with the altered sources.list.
• 882[07:24:59] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: the apt-get update refreshes local cache from the sources.list
• 883[07:25:19] <themill> I don't think this process is going to work well if we have to track your state ourselves and copy+paste the commands to run from that document to you here. Following it yourself would be much more reliable.
• 884[07:25:32] <at0m> no apt-get update, and your machine doesn't know about what's available.
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• 887[07:26:32] <Lady_Aleena> I will run "sudo apt-get update" when I know my sources.list is right: replaced-url
• 888[07:26:34] <jvava> I can access google.com in the host, but in the chroot environment, I can not. the chroot environment is constructed through other's image, can I tell iptable or whatever to route the network traffic through host network?
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• 892[07:27:37] <themill> jvava: is this chroot managed with some sort of wrapper or is it just "chroot"
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• 894[07:27:57] <themill> (a chroot does not have a different networking stack or network namespace so there's nothing to do)
• 895[07:28:42] <jvava> themill, I run a command (python script) to enter the chroot
• 896[07:28:49] <rwp> A chroot might have a broken /etc/resolv.conf file however.
• 897[07:29:22] <jvava> outside I can visit googleapis.com, but blocked in the chroot
• 898[07:29:44] <themill> what rwp said
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• 900[07:30:39] <Lady_Aleena> Because once I run my current sources.list with the stretch lines, I am committed to the distribution upgrade. And if something goes cablewy, I will break. So I am being VERY slow here.
• 901[07:30:41] <jvava> oh, got it, thank you all
• 902[07:30:56] <rwp> jvava, What was the problem?
• 903[07:31:33] <jvava> still can not resolve, rwp
• 904[07:31:37] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: running apt-get update will not install anything. it will only refresh your local cache to what's available. and it will tell you if sources.list is borken
• 905[07:31:45] <Lady_Aleena> Here goes nothing...
• 906[07:31:48] <rwp> What do you have in your chroot's /etc/resolv.conf file?
• 907[07:32:01] <jvava> host use a openvpn network, but chroot can not use it,
• 908[07:32:14] <rwp> Ah...
• 909[07:32:15] <jvava> the resolv.con is the same
• 910[07:32:38] <Lady_Aleena> Result of "sudo apt-get update": replaced-url
• 911[07:32:42] <themill> is access to the vpn limited to certain users or process groups in iptables?
• 912[07:32:45] *** Quits: wnws (~wnws@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
• 913[07:33:03] <themill> Lady_Aleena: what does that say to you?
• 914[07:33:09] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: so, you're all set to go.
• 915[07:33:28] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: that said, follow the instructions in the link themill posted some time ago
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• 918[07:34:24] <at0m> :00:20 < themill> Lady_Aleena: replaced-url
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• 921[07:34:51] <Lady_Aleena> Results of "sudo apt-get -o APT::Get::Trivial-Only=true dist-upgrade": replaced-url
• 922[07:35:07] <rwp> jvava, Instead of the python script to enter the chroot (I worry it might be restricting network access) you might try using only chroot and see if that changes anything. Simplify. As in the appropriate: chroot /srv/chroot/whatever /bin/bash
• 923[07:35:45] <Lady_Aleena> I don't understand the problem.
• 924[07:36:17] <Lady_Aleena> And the resolve is confusing too.
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• 927[07:36:52] <jvava> thanks, but my host uses an openvpn network, can the chroot use it?
• 928[07:37:12] <at0m> ,v rdnssd
• 929[07:37:13] <judd> Package: rdnssd on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.0.1-1+b1; jessie: 1.0.1-1+deb8u1; stretch: 1.0.3-3; buster: 1.0.4-1; sid: 1.0.4-1
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• 932[07:38:20] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: the sources list you posted does not have ppa. yet the paste of your apt-get update does. eh?
• 933[07:38:55] <Lady_Aleena> at0m, okay, its available. And I don't know where the ppa stuff came from, unless it is from that weird notepadqq list.
• 934[07:39:02] <babilen5> dpkg: find sources.list
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• 936[07:39:14] <babilen5> dpkg: show sources.list
• 937[07:39:14] <dpkg> Please pastebin the contents of your /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*.list. The easiest way to do this is to pastebin the output of: head -v -n -0 /etc/apt/sources.list{,.d/*}
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• 939[07:39:26] <rwp> jvava, "Networking" consists of several parts, two of which are 1) DNS name resolving to IP addresses and 2) Packet routing. Failure of either causes people to go "not working". Leading to challenges for us to debug which is the actual problem.
• 940[07:39:26] <at0m> also, Lady_Aleena also, ""systemd : Breaks: rdnssd (< 1.0.1-5) but 1.0.1-1+deb8u1 is to be installed"" while ""jessie: 1.0.1-1+deb8u1; stretch: 1.0.3-3"" is the versions
• 941[07:40:03] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: so your upgrade should install 1.0.3-3, not 1.0.1-1+deb8u1
• 942[07:40:24] <at0m> :s
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• 944[07:41:07] <rwp> jvava, In a chroot only the userland (think /usr/bin) is separate. The kernel and all kernel space (networking, ps -ef, memory, etc) are all shared with the host and not separate at all.
• 945[07:41:07] <Lady_Aleena> at0m, I read that part, but I don't understand what is going on there. I ran an update and upgrade with the jessie sources.list before I came in here.
• 946[07:41:32] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: do you have any files in sources.list.d/ ?
• 947[07:41:50] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: i think that's where some PPA and maybe others reside
• 948[07:42:13] <Lady_Aleena> replaced-url
• 949[07:42:28] <rwp> jvava, Normally the basic /dev is sufficient. But I could see a VPN network requiring the host /dev to be bind mounted into the chroot in order to function. Not sure. I'm fuzzy on this. But maybe themill or at0m or others knowledgeable might comment.
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• 954[07:44:00] <Sveta> rwp: 1
• 955[07:44:22] <rwp> Sveta, Good. That is the setting to enable the kernel netfilter to route between interfaces.
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• 959[07:45:03] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: ok so there's just that /etc/apt/sources.list.d/notepadqq.list for extra repo. if apt complains about notepadqq, comment out the ppa and "apt update" again. i wouldn't think this is an issue for now.
• 960[07:45:12] <rwp> Sveta, I am inclined to say that your configuration should be working. I realize it must not be or you wouldn't be trying to make it work. But it seems the component parts are correct.
• 961[07:45:14] <jvava> rwp, it is related to host environment, in another box, chroot can access network as the host, but the box has no openvpn network
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• 965[07:46:44] <jvava> host use tun0 interface which openvpn created, chroot does not know it?
• 966[07:46:57] <Lady_Aleena> at0m, I commented those two lines out, but the same error still pops up.
• 967[07:47:20] *** Quits: diniwed (~gavron@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 968[07:47:54] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: "systemd : Breaks: rdnssd (< 1.0.1-5) but 1.0.1-1+deb8u1 is to be installed" is what confuses me
• 969[07:48:19] <at0m> since "stretch: 1.0.3-3" for rdnssd
• 970[07:48:29] *** Joins: foul_owl_ (~foul_owl@replaced-ip)
• 971[07:48:32] <at0m> 1.0.1-1+deb8u1 is jessie
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• 973[07:48:34] <Lady_Aleena> at0m, well, I still have jessie.
• 974[07:49:08] <at0m> then why does apt want to install the jessie version? you're upgrading to stretch..
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• 976[07:49:38] <Lady_Aleena> I don't know.
• 977[07:49:50] <Lady_Aleena> So, does that mean I can't upgrade?
• 978[07:49:59] <rwp> jvava, I don't know enough to advise you about the openvpn access from the chroot. And if anyone else did they would be suggesting it.
• 979[07:50:02] *** Quits: BenderRodriguez (~TaxDodger@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 980[07:50:05] <rwp> jvava, I suggest taking your question to the #openvpn channel and asking there. It seems domain specific and perfect for that channel.
• 981[07:50:26] <jvava> ok, thank you, rwp
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• 984[07:53:14] <rwp> jvava, I joined over there too. So that I can read any wisdom that may come out of that group.
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• 987[07:55:19] <jvava> rwp, can you help me ask it, I can not express clearly, thank you
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• 989[07:56:17] <rwp> jvava, Okay. But patience will be needed. That channel has a lot of users but seems quiet now.
• 990[07:56:33] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: only reason i see is not having up-to-date local cache, but you did "apt-get update", so.. :?
• 991[07:57:07] *** Quits: e1z0_ (~null@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 992[07:57:25] <jvava> rwp, yes
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• 995[07:58:04] <friendlyGoat> heya anybody know about samba?
• 996[07:58:56] <at0m> dpkg: tell friendlyGoat about anyone
• 997[07:59:28] <friendlyGoat> i have a samba share on my debian server thats connected to a folder in my home folder and a folder on a USB, the USB is a backup incase something catastrophic happens. however i cant write to the usb.
• 998[07:59:45] <friendlyGoat> my server has no gui if thats any help
• 999[08:00:04] <friendlyGoat> also oops pardon, @ at0m
• 1000[08:00:07] *** Joins: conyers (~conyers@replaced-ip)
• 1001[08:00:25] <at0m> friendlyGoat: can you show the output of "mount" for that usb device?
• 1002[08:00:25] <Lady_Aleena> at0m, I am going to undo all the changes I made to my sources.list files and upgrade by disk by doing a completely fresh install of Debian when I am ready for that. It looks like there is a problem that can't be resolved any other way.
• 1003[08:00:43] <at0m> again, if upgrade makes you nervous, you do have backup, right? there's 2 kinds of data: data you backed up, and data you don't need.
• 1004[08:01:12] <Lady_Aleena> at0m, I think I have everything I need, but I am afraid I may forget something.
• 1005[08:01:42] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: most commonly, for me, i backup /etc, /var/lib, and homes
• 1006[08:02:27] <at0m> also, dpkg --get-selections > some.file.txt then on the new install you can dpkg --set-selections < some.file.txt
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• 1008[08:02:35] <jvava> rwp, need I configure iptables on my host to re-route network traffics from chroot use the tun0 interface?
• 1009[08:02:48] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: then the same packages will be marked for installation
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• 1011[08:03:01] <friendlyGoat> "mount: unknown filesystem type 'auto,defaults,noatime,auto,nofail"
• 1012[08:03:33] <at0m> friendlyGoat: resolving that mount issue would be a first step
• 1013[08:03:35] <jvava> rwp, I guess chroot know only phisical network interface
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• 1015[08:03:51] <Lady_Aleena> Looks like I'm screwed now.
• 1016[08:04:02] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: no you're not. yet ;p
• 1017[08:04:35] <Lady_Aleena> at0m, I undid the sources.list changes, ran sudo apt-get update, and got a whole lot of errors.
• 1018[08:04:46] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: paste them?
• 1019[08:04:58] <Sveta> rwp: yeah the other box does not receive the internet though
• 1020[08:05:17] <rwp> The other box is also Debian?
• 1021[08:05:57] <Lady_Aleena> Fixed it.
• 1022[08:06:21] <Sveta> rwp: at the moment yes, although after this starts working it will be an office printer which isn't a debian
• 1023[08:06:30] <Lady_Aleena> How do I find out what version of that one package with the problem?
• 1024[08:06:51] <Lady_Aleena> That rdnssd one.
• 1025[08:06:52] *** Joins: Lorkki25 (~Lorkki@replaced-ip)
• 1026[08:07:15] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: apt show rdnssd
• 1027[08:07:42] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: but this version mismatch only points to another issue
• 1028[08:07:47] *** Quits: him-cesjf (~cesjf@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 1029[08:08:05] <rwp> Sveta, Gotcha. Just looking to see what might be installed there. I would be inclined to start at the very basics and work up by checking that the two laptops have an ethernet link with each other. "ethtool eth0" and the last line is whether link is detected or not.
• 1030[08:08:09] *** Joins: him-cesjf (~cesjf@replaced-ip)
• 1031[08:08:23] <Lady_Aleena> replaced-url
• 1032[08:09:04] <themill> Lady_Aleena: can you pastebin the output of "apt-cache policy" for us?
• 1033[08:09:47] <Lady_Aleena> replaced-url
• 1034[08:10:11] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: right, so that is the jessie version. what bugs me is replaced-url
• 1035[08:10:53] <themill> at0m: I suspect that would go away if doing the two step upgrade then dist-upgrade
• 1036[08:10:53] <Sveta> rwp: replaced-url
• 1037[08:11:05] <themill> at0m: it's hard to know without doing it though.
• 1038[08:11:07] <Sveta> rwp: if there is any particular line from the loads of output to look for, I can copy it here
• 1039[08:11:18] *** Quits: Lorkki25 (~Lorkki@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 1040[08:11:30] <themill> highly unlikely rdnssd is actually used on this installation so just removing it if it gets in the way would be fine
• 1041[08:11:37] <at0m> themill: ah good catch. first upgrade all packages to current jessie up-to-date before moving to stretch.
• 1042[08:11:39] <Sveta> rwp: it does have 'link detected: yes' among others
• 1043[08:12:08] <rwp> Sorry, I used "eth0" generically. What is the name of your wired ethernet? You can run "ip a" (short for ip addr show) to show your devices. Probably something like enso3 or something.
• 1044[08:12:09] <at0m> themill: sure, but removal of one package now, and how many more after this eh
• 1045[08:12:27] <themill> at0m: yeah, that output was just from the "see if there's enough disk space" step. It could cascade on, but seems unlikely
• 1046[08:12:37] *** Joins: jcb2016 (~jcb@replaced-ip)
• 1047[08:12:37] <Lady_Aleena> Did the paste from "sudo apt-cache policy" tell you anything?
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• 1050[08:13:19] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: what themill said: first, apt-get upgrade your current jessie installation. then change sources.list to stretch and apt-get update
• 1051[08:13:43] <Lady_Aleena> I'll do it again (3rd time in the last several hours).
• 1052[08:14:14] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: better than reinstall all from scratch. well usually install goes fast, but config takes quite some longer
• 1053[08:14:48] <at0m> i haven't reinstalled since my last Windows machine 15y ago, or when i bought a new machine.
• 1054[08:15:30] <Lady_Aleena> Results from the last upgrade: replaced-url
• 1055[08:15:58] <Lady_Aleena> I don't know why those 9 programs aren't being installed.
• 1056[08:16:35] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: i'd get rid of the 2 using apt-get autoremove, then manually try to resolve the other 9 from aptitude's curses interface
• 1057[08:17:50] <Lady_Aleena> Those 9 packages are still being kept back.
• 1058[08:18:13] <Lady_Aleena> I don't now aptitude.
• 1059[08:18:20] <Lady_Aleena> s/now/know/;
• 1060[08:18:59] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: launch aptitude, and press "+" on the available upgrades. some packages might become marked as broken, press 'b' to jump to them.
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• 1067[08:20:31] <at0m> then press enter on the marked broken packages, and see what's wrong, and you can manually sort that out
• 1068[08:21:15] <at0m> press 'g' once will show you the proposed changes, and these will not be executed until you press 'g' again
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• 1072[08:22:37] <at0m> another way would be to "apt-get dist-upgrade" before that (dist-upgrade is a bit of a misnomer, since you're not moving to stretch just yet. it's merely a more extensive way to upgrade, which allows for example removal of other packages)
• 1073[08:22:56] *** Joins: melissa666 (~melissa66@replaced-ip)
• 1074[08:24:39] <at0m> "apt" does away with the dist-upgrade and calls it full-upgrade, which is more what one would expect from the option name
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• 1077[08:25:08] <Lady_Aleena> at0m, any other way to fix those packages not being installed other than aptitude. I am fearful I will hit the wrong thing and zap my system.
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• 1080[08:25:48] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: sure, apt-get dist-upgrade or apt full-upgrade
• 1081[08:25:49] <Lady_Aleena> And I didn't have an option called available upgrades.
• 1082[08:26:05] *** Joins: wakayaya (~chneg@replaced-ip)
• 1083[08:27:01] <at0m> in aptitude they would be listed under "Upgradable Packages"
• 1084[08:27:02] <Lady_Aleena> at0m, I think I need to step back from this. I am about to break into tears.
• 1085[08:27:32] <at0m> ok. your current system is working, so it's ok to take a break. nothing is lost.
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• 1090[08:28:15] <Lady_Aleena> at0m, not really. I was hoping a quick distribution upgrade would fix my KDE problem, which is KDE freezes if I leave my computer for too long.
• 1091[08:29:04] <jcb2016> any reason why os-prober would keep looking for an os thats not there anymore? grub.cfg has the deleted os in there multiple times
• 1092[08:29:11] <Lady_Aleena> But because I use such an old version of KDE, the people in #kde won't help.
• 1093[08:29:20] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: ah, that's another issue. we can go over that, but i guess you're done trying to fix things now
• 1094[08:29:40] *** Joins: n4dir (~n4dir@replaced-ip)
• 1095[08:29:50] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: there's #debian-kde on irc.oftc.net, that supports our old ;) version
• 1096[08:29:56] <Lady_Aleena> at0m, yes. My system is just wonky.
• 1097[08:30:13] <dutchfish> jcb2016, after changes to default/grub config, you need to run update-grub, did you consider that?
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• 1099[08:30:43] <jcb2016> dutchfish: i don't know what to change in the config file.
• 1100[08:31:07] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: as quick go-to, i'd look into screensaver and powersaving options. also, i had times when kde would not bring up the screen again, but toggling to tty1 and back to tty7 would bring it back. Ctrl-Alt-F1, Ctrl-Alt-F7.
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• 1102[08:31:19] <dutchfish> jcb2016, normally no changes are neccesary, try to stick to the default settings, or revert to it.
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• 1105[08:31:40] <jcb2016> dutchfish: how do i do this? do you want the output of grub.cfg?
• 1106[08:31:42] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: those are easy quick thingies that don't require too much effort like the apt issues =)
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• 1108[08:32:17] <dutchfish> jcb2016, ask the bot about confmis, how to revert to the default settings.
• 1109[08:32:22] <Lady_Aleena> at0m, I'm to the point that when KDE freezes, I push the power button so I can restart it.
• 1110[08:32:41] <jcb2016> ok thanks dutchfish
• 1111[08:32:44] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: that's another option :D
• 1112[08:32:51] <dutchfish> jcb2016, your welcome
• 1113[08:33:15] <Lady_Aleena> at0m, not a good one. I get to see a long list of orphaned inodes.
• 1114[08:33:36] <at0m> dutchfish: jcb2016 had a partition with another distro on it the other day, and removed it. but it still pops up in grub on boot
• 1115[08:33:53] <dutchfish> at0m, yes, then my hints will apply.
• 1116[08:34:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1487
• 1117[08:34:22] <jcb2016> dutchfish: dpkg has no ideas what confmis is
• 1118[08:34:28] <jcb2016> judd: either
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• 1120[08:34:39] <dutchfish> jcb2016, a sec, ill check
• 1121[08:34:43] <jcb2016> ok
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• 1123[08:35:14] <dutchfish> !confmiss
• 1124[08:35:14] <dpkg> You have to especially tell the packaging system to reinstall config files because when they are gone, it is assumed that you want them to stay deleted. "aptitude -o DPkg::Options::='--force-confmiss' reinstall $packagename" will restore them (man dpkg for details). If the package uses <ucf> for config file management, ask me about <ucf confmiss>.
• 1125[08:35:57] <dutchfish> jcb2016, thats for the grub package, to ve clear
• 1126[08:36:08] <jcb2016> ok
• 1127[08:36:10] <dutchfish> jcb2016, after that invoke os-prober
• 1128[08:36:31] <dutchfish> jcb2016, then store your settings into the bootloader, with updategrub
• 1129[08:36:48] <dutchfish> jcb2016, clear?
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• 1133[08:38:58] <jcb2016> dutchfish: yes. dpkg -l |grep grub has 3 diff grubs grub-common grub-legacy grub-pc and grub-pc-bin which do i reconfigure
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• 1136[08:40:31] <dutchfish> jcb2016, what does `sudo dpkg -l | grep grub` tells you?
• 1137[08:41:00] <n4dir> no sudo required.
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• 1139[08:42:08] <jcb2016> dutchfish: replaced-url
• 1140[08:42:16] <dutchfish> jcb2016, also `sudo apt-file search /etc/default/grub` will reveal from which package it comes.
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• 1142[08:42:50] <at0m> again, n4dir> no sudo required.
• 1143[08:43:03] <at0m> only to mark/install/remove
• 1144[08:43:47] <jcb2016> apt-file dutchfish replaced-url
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• 1147[08:44:40] <dutchfish> jcb2016, so grub-cloud-amd64: /etc/default/grub gives the answer to which you should apply the confmiss
• 1148[08:44:56] <jcb2016> ok
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• 1150[08:45:21] <dutchfish> jcb2016, this time with sudo ;)
• 1151[08:45:39] <Lady_Aleena> at0m, I just went to irc.oftc.net and tried to get into #debian-kde, but I have to identify. So, I tried to register, but either I registered before and can't remember my password and what e-mail account I used when registering; or someone else registered this name there making it impossible for me to register or use it.
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• 1153[08:46:35] <jcb2016> dutchfish: i ran the aptitude command. ran os-proper ran update-grub im rebooting now
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• 1155[08:46:36] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: /msg -OFTC nickserv help recover
• 1156[08:46:52] <dutchfish> jcb2016, ok
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• 1159[08:47:24] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: maybe old irc logs can reveal your email or registration password, depending on your client and config.
• 1160[08:47:37] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: usually in nickserv*.log
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• 1164[08:50:34] <Lady_Aleena> at0m, I use HexChat.
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• 1168[08:52:21] <jcb2016> dutchfish: same thing boot menu shows archilnux. here is my grub.cfg replaced-url
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• 1171[08:53:14] <jcb2016> what is # BEGIN /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober # < -- can i go there and remove it?
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• 1173[08:53:59] <dutchfish> jcb2016, mm.. maybe move/rename /etc/default/grub before running the confmiss hint. I am not sure if it replaces rather then restore missing. At least check it before running the os-prober and update-grub.
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• 1177[08:54:33] <jcb2016> ok
• 1178[08:55:02] <dutchfish> jcb2016, that way you can also compare the old with the restored one.
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• 1183[08:57:19] <Lady_Aleena> themill, you are so sweet. 8)
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• 1185[08:57:52] <Lady_Aleena> at0m, you are amazing. 8)
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• 1187[08:58:52] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: eheh, thanks. take a break, you deserve it, and get back when you have courage again to take on the issues with your installation
• 1188[08:58:56] <themill> I assume you got mail
• 1189[08:59:17] <Lady_Aleena> themill, I did. Thank you very very much!
• 1190[08:59:24] <themill> no worries
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• 1200[09:01:26] <Lady_Aleena> themill, I know I am a pain, but you do know that I appreciate your help, right?
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• 1204[09:05:57] <Lady_Aleena> I am thinking about setting xfce. Is it hard?
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• 1209[09:07:52] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: as a fallback or general alternative to KDE, i have fluxbox installed, too. and no, either isn't hard. both will take some time to customize, but at least they'll work if the other doesnt
• 1210[09:08:29] <at0m> no need to remove one to install the other, one can pick which to start from plasma or other DM
• 1211[09:08:32] <Lady_Aleena> at0m, I'm thinking about a full on DE switch.
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• 1213[09:09:12] <Lady_Aleena> Sure, I'll keep KDE installed, but maybe use XFCE on a regular basis.
• 1214[09:09:31] <at0m> depends on how integrated your KDE is.. if you rely on akonadi, kmail, konqueror and other kde tools, switching may take longer
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• 1217[09:10:35] <Lady_Aleena> I just wish I could switch between DEs without having to end everything I'm doing. Right now I have HexChat, Firefox, and VLC actively running; but to switch over the XFCE, I'll have to close everything down and reopen them there.
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• 1219[09:11:45] <at0m> Lady_Aleena: one of the reasons i started to use screen+irssi many years ago. xfree86 (predecessor of xorg) wasn't all that stable..
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• 1222[09:12:24] <at0m> and for fluxbox: that can be restarted without closing the apps in it :D (unlike KDE)
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• 1327[10:09:54] <fling> How to fix up/down/pgup/pgdown scrolling not working in iceweasel?
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• 1335[10:16:37] <johnjay> i'm trying to figure out how to show packages or install them by tag?
• 1336[10:16:43] <johnjay> like for example devel::lang::c?
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• 1338[10:16:59] <johnjay> i can't see anything in apt-get man page or google about it
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• 1374[10:43:55] <johnjay> i guess debtags grep <tag> does it
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• 1512[12:36:06] <BlastuR> regarding bash, when is it preferred to put things into .bash_profile over .profile (which is also read by other programs than bash)
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• 1527[12:43:00] <nkuttler> BlastuR: i think you have just answered your own question?
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• 1530[12:44:48] <BlastuR> nkuttler: yes, but since not both are read, is it not always better to use .profile? and just put a if-statement for bash-specifics
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• 1532[12:46:47] <nkuttler> BlastuR: what do you mean, not both are read?
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• 1563[13:08:00] <RalphBa> oh, not to foreget, debian 10
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• 1565[13:08:41] <RalphBa> the gux providing that says he executes that stuff each time, but I think there has to be a better way
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• 1584[13:24:35] <dka_> hi
• 1585[13:24:37] <dka_> hi
• 1586[13:24:47] <dka_> I have a desktop icon that have appeared on my desktop
• 1587[13:24:49] <dka_> name Pony Foo
• 1588[13:25:03] <dka_> This is the content : replaced-url
• 1589[13:25:09] <dka_> dka@dev-11:[~/Desktop]: cat chrome-elgchmihafojgpniholijjdgnhgpghop-Default.desktop
• 1590[13:25:17] <dka_> How did this icon got here? did I get hacked ?
• 1591[13:26:37] <JPT> Looks like a regular desktop icon. Maybe you (or something you recently installed) created it.
• 1592[13:27:30] <ksk> it seems to be a shortcut to start a google chrome app
• 1593[13:27:43] <ksk> likely added when you installed the app
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• 1596[13:29:50] <dka_> I have not installed that app
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• 1599[13:31:08] <ksk> its also a little strange, that the ID does not seem to be existant in chromes app-store
• 1600[13:31:33] <ksk> replaced-url
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• 1627[14:00:29] <nix64bit> what happened to 4.18.0-2-amd64 header files? they are missing from the apt installer
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• 1631[14:02:38] <themill> nix64bit: 4.18.* isn't in any release.
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• 1635[14:03:56] <NetTerminalGene> ,kernels
• 1636[14:03:57] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.20.0-trunk-686-pae (4.20-1~exp1); sid: 4.19.0-3-686-pae (4.19.20-1); buster: 4.19.0-2-686-pae (4.19.16-1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.2-686 (4.19.16-1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-8-686-pae (4.9.144-3); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.8-686-pae (4.9.110-3+deb9u5~deb8u1); wheezy-
• 1637[14:03:58] <judd> backports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.102-1)
• 1638[14:04:19] <nix64bit> my kernel uses 4.18 and cant install the header files to install video card
• 1639[14:04:36] <nix64bit> I see that it isnt there
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• 1641[14:04:50] <themill> you've got it back to front; you need to install a supported kernel first
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• 1643[14:06:26] <nix64bit> i dropped down to an older kernel 4.14.0-0.bpo.3-amd64
• 1644[14:06:29] <at0m> i mark both headers and image for one run. probably it installs the image first, so there's some structure in which the to-be-compiled modules then go
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• 1648[14:08:14] <themill> (also not a current kernel version, but whatever...)
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• 1652[14:10:55] <nix64bit> probably because I am using testing
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• 1659[14:13:15] <ksk> nope, the bot also listed the testing kernel.
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• 1661[14:14:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1523
• 1662[14:14:09] <ksk> `apt-cache policy $package" shows you from which repo it was pulled
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• 1664[14:15:21] <nix64bit> 990 replaced-url
• 1665[14:15:21] <nix64bit> release v=9.8,o=Debian,a=stable,n=stretch,l=Debian,c=main,b=amd64
• 1666[14:15:21] <nix64bit> origin httpredir.debian.org
• 1667[14:15:43] <themill> mixtures of releases, where could that possibly go wrong
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• 1669[14:16:40] <nix64bit> I have only used apt update, apt upgrade and apt dist-upgrade
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• 1671[14:17:16] <nix64bit> I havent had any issues till now
• 1672[14:19:11] <themill> tbh, over the last 15 years here, I've learnt not to care whether you happened to have got away without problems in one particular unsupportable configuration or another.
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• 1675[14:21:20] <ksk> !frankendebian
• 1676[14:21:20] <dpkg> When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall>
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• 1680[14:22:04] <nix64bit> so reinstall then?
• 1681[14:22:27] <themill> If you want to run buster, you can probably upgrade to buster.
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• 1684[14:23:54] <nix64bit> any tips on how to upgrade (dist-upgrade doesnt have any options)
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• 1686[14:24:39] <ksk> If you need to ask how to upgrade to testing, maybe you should not run testing.
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• 1688[14:26:04] <bolt> cue "stable is old" etc.
• 1689[14:26:29] <themill> !show sources.list nix64bit
• 1690[14:26:29] <dpkg> nix64bit: Please pastebin the contents of your /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*.list. The easiest way to do this is to pastebin the output of: head -v -n -0 /etc/apt/sources.list{,.d/*}
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• 1694[14:27:40] <nix64bit> I am going to try this sed -i 's/stretch/buster/g' /etc/apt/sources.list
• 1695[14:28:00] <bolt> why?
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• 1697[14:28:28] <bolt> go through it manually and know what you're about to do. also, themill asked you to pastebin your sources.list to help you out with that
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• 1709[14:35:14] <nix64bit> replaced-url
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• 1714[14:38:06] <themill> Dude. We need to have a discussion about hygiene.
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• 1716[14:39:06] <nix64bit> I didnt look at it is it messy?
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• 1718[14:39:54] <qman__> you have stuff from at least 20 different places, it's a ridiculous mess
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• 1724[14:44:53] <taylorbyte> i just installed neovim today and it doesnt seem to know how to render special characters in nerdtree and other plugins. i'm using urxvt-unicode, when i try neovim in a virtual terminal it works properly, i have also cleared my .Xresources and doesn't help. Can someone help me with this?
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• 1732[14:51:06] <nix64bit> the upgrade is going well so far, I guess I should clean out my sources sometime, thanks for the help
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• 1735[14:52:20] <nix64bit> themill: thank you
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• 1745[15:03:00] <n4dir> i think you should clean it up as soon as possible, now, that is.
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• 1750[15:07:05] <fling> How to reinstall all the package for example in case of /usr corruption
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• 1769[15:23:11] <rant> Sveta: i guess you dont have a DE on that machine? that method with the nm applet was super easy for me to test
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• 1795[15:45:29] <g0zzy> Certain that my passwd.client is fine for Exim4 but somehow i'm getting a "relay not permitted", suggesting a failed auth(?) Can anyone suggest why? replaced-url
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• 1808[15:52:51] <nativetexan> good morning
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• 1810[15:53:14] <velix> Can I mount tmpfs as a non-root user?
• 1811[15:53:19] <nativetexan> i have really tried to find the answer myself, but im stuck and need assistance please
• 1812[15:53:54] <ksk> velix: "mount: only root can use "--types" option" - seems not :P
• 1813[15:53:57] <nativetexan> i installed the linux suite on windows 10 after the new update
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• 1816[15:54:26] <velix> ksk: From the man page: In order for user-space tools and applications to create tmpfs filesystems, the kernel must be configured with the CONFIG_TMPFS option.
• 1817[15:54:29] <nativetexan> im trying to unpackage a tarball on godaddy and make, install
• 1818[15:54:30] <ksk> velix: you can of course by putting it in /etc/fstab and put the user option in it.
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• 1822[15:54:52] <velix> ksk: I don't want root interactive here, but thanks for oyur answer ;)
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• 1824[15:54:54] <nativetexan> i cant make it happen, ive tried
• 1825[15:55:04] <ksk> velix: wat?
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• 1827[15:55:15] * nativetexan falls on his knees and begs
• 1828[15:55:19] <nativetexan> ill wait my turn
• 1829[15:55:37] <ksk> nativetexan: how about describing your problem?
• 1830[15:55:47] <ksk> also, how is it related to debian?
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• 1832[15:55:52] <nativetexan> the problem in a nutshell is me
• 1833[15:55:59] <nativetexan> probably
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• 1836[15:56:35] <nativetexan> so i went to endless sites and youtube, i cant even connect to godaddy witrh the debian termianl
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• 1838[15:56:40] <chkbsd> does libvirtd by the reboot or poweroff command cleanly stops the vm's via acpi?
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• 1840[15:56:59] <nativetexan> thank you ksk
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• 1842[15:57:07] <ksk> chkbsd: you mean if you shutdown the system? should..
• 1843[15:57:16] <chkbsd> ok, thx.
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• 1845[15:57:19] <nativetexan> i can wait, yall are busy
• 1846[15:57:31] <ksk> !tell nativetexan about ask
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• 1849[15:58:13] <nativetexan> so i d/led this small drummachine to play with on my site
• 1850[15:58:27] <nativetexan> a tarball package
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• 1852[15:58:50] <nativetexan> i read and read all about how to extract, make install
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• 1854[15:59:14] <nativetexan> but, i cant connect to godaddy using the dang terminal
• 1855[15:59:26] *** Joins: a0z (~a0z@replaced-ip)
• 1856[15:59:40] <ksk> nativetexan: you are talking about a shared hosting package at godaddy? you will most likely not be able to compile stuff on there
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• 1859[16:00:02] <ksk> and also, how do you come to the conclusion, that you can integrate a C programme (is it C?) into your webppage?
• 1860[16:00:17] <nativetexan> ksk, yes correct shared hosting and i checked and looks like godaddy is cool with this one
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• 1862[16:00:29] <nativetexan> its linux
• 1863[16:00:45] <nativetexan> godaddy hosts me on linux
• 1864[16:00:58] <nativetexan> am i thinking wrong right away?
• 1865[16:01:08] <ksk> still, implementing something that does need to be compiled into a webbpage does not sound reasonable to me.
• 1866[16:01:17] <ksk> you put web-thingys onto a webpage most of times
• 1867[16:01:26] <nativetexan> its demo is on a webpage
• 1868[16:01:37] <nativetexan> this is joomla
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• 1872[16:02:00] <nativetexan> latest verion 3.9.3
• 1873[16:02:14] <whislock> ksk: That is the purpose of CGI.
• 1874[16:02:20] <nativetexan> im am new to content management systems
• 1875[16:02:30] <nativetexan> 5 months or so
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• 1877[16:02:45] <ksk> whislock: cgi. so 2018 :P
• 1878[16:02:51] <nativetexan> im a home inspector btw, not a developer or even educated
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• 1880[16:03:08] <whislock> ksk: I'm just saying. :P
• 1881[16:03:21] <nativetexan> i can give the demo addy if needed
• 1882[16:03:38] <nativetexan> i think i can find, been through alot of pages
• 1883[16:03:58] <whislock> I'm still struggling to understand why this is a Debian question.
• 1884[16:04:04] <nativetexan> its like a github project
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• 1886[16:04:29] <nativetexan> oh, am i in the correct channel?
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• 1892[16:05:05] <nativetexan> i think if i can connect to godaddy i can take it from there
• 1893[16:05:41] <nativetexan> if it works sweet, if not...just one of those things
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• 1897[16:06:11] <nativetexan> and a lot of reading down the drain, lol
• 1898[16:06:24] <nativetexan> i tried putty also
• 1899[16:06:34] <nativetexan> cant connect with it eigher
• 1900[16:06:43] <nativetexan> either
• 1901[16:06:57] <nativetexan> i can with filexilla
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• 1903[16:07:00] <nativetexan> zilla
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• 1910[16:10:14] <nativetexan> well, ill try another channel, i thank you for your time and have a great day everyone
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• 1917[16:11:24] <beavis> hiya, just upgraded to sid and my dhclient isn't obtaining the addresses, anyone knows what's up?
• 1918[16:11:54] <whislock> unstable is unstable, who knew.
• 1919[16:12:06] <whislock> Crap, where's the factoid for deb-next...
• 1920[16:12:09] <whislock> !unstable
• 1921[16:12:09] <dpkg> Unstable is the status of a Debian release when packages can be added at any time, that can disrupt the integrity of the whole system! Ask me about <break>. If you have to ask whether you should use it or how, you shouldn't. replaced-url
• 1922[16:12:20] <velix> What's a good wording to tell the user to give the full path and binary as a commandline parameter? "path to the binary" seems misleading to me, since the user could think, you just need to give the path.
• 1923[16:12:27] *** Quits: Guest74965 (~Lehvyn@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 1924[16:12:30] <whislock> beavis: There's a channel on OFTC for testing/sid users.
• 1925[16:12:31] <whislock> !testing
• 1926[16:12:32] <dpkg> Testing is a continuously updated release between <stable> and <unstable>, currently codenamed <buster>. See replaced-url
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• 1928[16:12:50] <whislock> beavis: There it is. #debian-next on irc.oftc.net.
• 1929[16:13:13] <beavis> thanks
• 1930[16:13:32] <beavis> whislock: i need to be invited to join
• 1931[16:13:46] <whislock> Then you missed the 'it's on irc.oftc.net' part.
• 1932[16:13:52] <beavis> nope
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• 1934[16:14:08] <whislock> As in "that's not on freenode."
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• 1937[16:15:04] <g0zzy> Certain that my passwd.client is fine for Exim4 but somehow i'm getting a "relay not permitted", suggesting a failed auth(?) Can anyone suggest why? replaced-url
• 1938[16:15:05] <beavis> ah i need to register tho
• 1939[16:15:14] <whislock> Ah, there you go.
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• 1944[16:18:41] <beavis> whislock: i need to be indentified and verified in order to join it, i still got no verification email
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• 1961[16:30:43] <beavis> ok i get No DHCPOFFERS received. when i try to get addresses from any network
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• 1964[16:32:31] <nix64bit> fyi the dist upgrade worked, I had to clean up/remove a few sources
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• 1969[16:35:04] <beavis> whislock: ok nevermind XD i had to restart my router
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• 1972[16:36:36] <whislock> Hey, simple solutions.
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• 1994[16:47:37] <at0m> rwp: ran into this, which has both the bridge and the nat method: replaced-url
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• 2022[17:08:18] <Marz> Is there ever a point that Debian catches up to Ubuntu? A lot of the packages in stretch are from 2016
• 2023[17:08:42] <pingfloyd> Marz: catch up in what way?
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• 2025[17:09:20] <Marz> Updated kernel , packages and so on
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• 2029[17:10:24] <pingfloyd> Marz: ubuntu is based on debian testing and unstable
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• 2032[17:11:12] <ksk> Marz: debian stable means unchanging. Its a policy thing.
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• 2034[17:11:32] <Marz> I know but the stable Debian takes a while to come out
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• 2036[17:11:47] <ksk> debian10 will have newer versions of course, but after its release they will also not change _(apart from security fixes)
• 2037[17:11:49] <Marz> While Ubuntu seems to release much faster
• 2038[17:12:14] <pingfloyd> ubuntu LTS based on snapshot of testing and latest ubuntu on snapshot of unstable
• 2039[17:12:48] <pingfloyd> Marz: sure, but it's actually behind where testing and unstable may be since it's based on a snapshot of those
• 2040[17:13:08] <pingfloyd> Marz: those are more like what people associate with a rolling release
• 2041[17:13:19] <pingfloyd> Marz: that is they're not releases.
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• 2045[17:14:13] <pingfloyd> so they take a snapshot of those and then build and tweak from there and have their respective ubuntu releases
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• 2047[17:14:56] <pingfloyd> that's the main thing to take away, the release strategies are completely different between debian and ubuntu
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• 2051[17:16:01] <pingfloyd> Marz: replaced-url
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• 2066[17:26:38] <JordiGH> What does "sync" mean in rsyslog.conf(5)?
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• 2068[17:26:52] <JordiGH> I mean, what does it mean for rsyslog to sync log files?
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• 2070[17:27:26] <JordiGH> And why does Debian enable this by default but then selectively disables it for almost every file /etc/rsyslog.conf ?
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• 2072[17:29:04] <JordiGH> Is this about flushing the output to the log after every log write instead of writing to the log in batches?
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• 2092[17:38:42] <wwilly> hi, it seems that with a netinstall on an ARM board, there is no tty or uart serial console configured, how to do that? this is my boot.ini for uboot replaced-url
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• 2094[17:39:39] <wwilly> what should I do? I'm able to mount the fresh installed partition from installer, even chroot it, but I don't how to setup the login stuff
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• 2096[17:40:05] <wwilly> I've installed MATE desktop on it to have a try, but nothing comes after the boot process
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• 2120[17:52:57] <wa3d4CX3> Hi there ! I've installed debian in non-graphical mode (tty and cie) and I built my desktop myself with i3 and so on... The problem is when i log in my laptop, I get the tty login, is it possible to get i3lock screen or something like that ? :-)
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• 2123[17:55:14] <ksk> wa3d4CX3: not sure about i3, but normally you would have a login manager, which starts your DE
• 2124[17:55:34] <ksk> xdm is lightweight afaik.
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• 2126[17:57:37] <wa3d4CX3> ksk: Is it possible to customize the login manager launch ? Would need the script location, the one that launch the lm at startup
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• 2202[18:43:58] <rwp> at0m, Thanks for the reference but it was for Sveta who was bridging. :-)
• 2203[18:46:09] <jhutchins> wa3d4CX3: Probably need to change the default target for systemd. I know that to disable the GUI you change it TO multiuser.target, not sure what you use for GUI.
• 2204[18:47:01] <jhutchins> wa3d4CX3: Ah, graphical.target of course.
• 2205[18:48:13] <jhutchins> !systemd default
• 2206[18:48:21] <jhutchins> !systemd default target
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• 2208[18:48:54] <jhutchins> wa3d4CX3: systemctl set-default graphical.target
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• 2213[18:50:36] <rwp> at0m, I am very often setting up access points using isc-dhcp-server + Shorewall managing NAT + hostapd. But I don't use NM nor bridging.
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• 2225[18:56:28] <wa3d4CX3> jhutchins: Thanks i'll check this out ! :-)
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• 2244[19:04:32] <wwilly> ok, found out, is because I haven't provide an initrd
• 2245[19:04:33] <wwilly> pfiou
• 2246[19:04:37] <wwilly> long road
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• 2444[21:21:06] <zophyx> can the chrome browser connect to unix domain sockets ?
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• 2446[21:22:11] <rant> that'd be rather offtopic here
• 2447[21:22:28] <zophyx> i have a server that works with curl and a golang unix domain socket server, i would like to connect to it with the chrome browser
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• 2449[21:23:14] <zophyx> rant: yes, but, ther's peeps here with knowledge, sorry for the off topic
• 2450[21:23:34] <ksk> zophyx: as chrome is not part of debian, its not supported in here ;)
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• 2452[21:23:58] <ksk> but this question sounds like you could google it. If you do not find anything, answer might be "no"
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• 2480[21:47:42] <Sveta> rant, I did nm-connection-editor and added the bridge, but the recipient machine is offline
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• 2482[21:48:00] <Sveta> rant, I believe this is the command that the applet uses to open its gui
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• 2485[21:49:14] <Sveta> rant: just to make sure that you noticed, I would like to receive over one interface and share over another
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• 2491[21:56:36] <rwp> Hi Sveta! It looked to me like the component parts for you looked to be configured okay and working.
• 2492[21:56:44] <rwp> The challenge is to figure out why they aren't working together for you.
• 2493[21:57:44] <rwp> You had a link. The network bridge should connect both interfaces. Kernel packet forwarding was enabled. All good.
• 2494[21:57:58] <johnjay> would it be acceptable to add a feature to apt-get to install everything with a given tag?
• 2495[21:58:09] <johnjay> i'm not sure why the tags exist since there's no such command
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• 2498[21:59:18] <rwp> johnjay, I shouldn't say anything because I am just a little stale but at one time packages had tags that aptitude knew how to install using patterns.
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• 2500[21:59:48] <jmcnaught> yeah aptitude can do it with ~G
• 2501[21:59:49] <rwp> johnjay, But it seems that most recently all of that was replaced by meta packages. Packages named "task-*" which can be installed and those pull in the rest of the system using Dependencies.
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• 2503[22:00:17] <rwp> The 'tasksel' command does this at installation time. Or can be done later. replaced-url
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• 2507[22:01:26] <johnjay> oh ok. i should have known aptitude would know how
• 2508[22:01:42] <johnjay> i think i looked at tasksel before
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• 2512[22:01:55] <rwp> johnjay, However the meta-packages are just packages. Can get a list like this: apt-cache search task- | grep ^task-
• 2513[22:01:57] <johnjay> but there were just a few things, like "gnome desktop" and "web server", like in the cd install menu
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• 2516[22:02:09] <rwp> Can see what is already installed: dpkg -l | grep task-
• 2517[22:02:39] <johnjay> I mostly get language packs with that
• 2518[22:02:44] <rwp> "apt-cache search task- | grep ^task- | wc -l" tells me 218 task packages.
• 2519[22:02:51] <johnjay> nothing like, "install things with the devel::lang:c" tag or something
• 2520[22:03:08] <rwp> The main C development package is "build-essential".
• 2521[22:03:17] <johnjay> I get 218 as well
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• 2523[22:03:35] <rwp> For almost everything else the easiest thing is to pick a package, say you are working with 'grep', and then install the build dependencies for it: apt-get build-dep grep
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• 2525[22:04:15] <johnjay> so build-essential just pulls in depends?
• 2526[22:04:15] <rwp> That will install everything needed to build the Debian package by installing the declared build dependencies. That's the easy way.
• 2527[22:04:17] <johnjay> i.e. libc6-dev | libc-dev, gcc (>= 4:6.3), g++ (>= 4:6.3), make, dpkg-dev (>= 1.17.11)?
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• 2529[22:04:35] <johnjay> good point
• 2530[22:04:40] <rwp> Basically 'build-essential' is enough to make a classic Hello World! program work.
• 2531[22:04:51] <johnjay> right
• 2532[22:04:58] <johnjay> it's not going to pull in cmake or valgrind or cscope
• 2533[22:05:15] <rwp> Goodness forbid!
• 2534[22:05:27] <rwp> But if you build-dep $foo and $foo requires cmake then it will.
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• 2539[22:05:58] <johnjay> of course git wasn't even installed by default on the debian dvd
• 2540[22:06:02] <johnjay> so it's not limited to fancy stuff
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• 2543[22:06:23] <rwp> jmcnaught, Do you have the syntax handy for aptitude to install the patterns such as devel::lang:c and the other tags we see in package information?
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• 2546[22:06:54] <johnjay> brb
• 2547[22:07:11] <rwp> johnjay, For every person who loves git and thinks it should be priority standard there is another person that reviles git and wishes it were written in python and wants hg.
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• 2549[22:07:39] <rwp> Best if such decisions are left up to the local admin to decide on their own time.
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• 2552[22:09:01] <jmcnaught> rwp: "aptitude install ~Gdevel::lang:c" but that will install a lot of stuff, probably want to limit it with more tags. The search term reference is here: replaced-url
• 2553[22:09:30] <rwp> Awesome! johnjay ^^
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• 2557[22:10:37] <jmcnaught> i just ran that with -s for simulate, it's a mess
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• 2560[22:11:47] <rwp> Well... Perhaps that is why they converted to the tasl-* metapackages? I have no idea. Just guessing.
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• 2564[22:12:53] <rwp> I think for things like XFCE the task-xfce-desktop task package is probably a reasonable way to get it installed. And so on for the rest...
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• 2567[22:13:45] <rwp> For project build dependencies... Not so much. There I either use build-dep or I carefully look at what is actually required and install each thing individually.
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• 2569[22:14:00] <rwp> Then install into /usr/local/stow and manage /usr/local/bin using 'stow' to do it! FTW! :-)
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• 2572[22:14:31] <velix> I don't know the current topic, but STOW ROCKS.
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• 2580[22:21:36] <t3st3r> ha-ha, hg was written in python, just to find it slow resource hog crap - so it got plenty of things rewritten in C. At which point it a mess of 2 totally different languages.
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• 2586[22:25:24] <rwp> velix, Yes! 'stow' is quite awesome!
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• 2589[22:27:47] <rwp> t3st3r, I am on the git side of things and like it and haven't really given hg a fair bit of use yet. But I have friends that just abhor git and advocate hg whenever the topic comes up.
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• 2591[22:28:13] <velix> rwp: do you use the perl or the c flavor one?
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• 2594[22:28:38] <rwp> I use the compiled stow from the Debian package of the same name.
• 2595[22:28:44] <t3st3r> rwp fortunately my friends prefer git. Though some strange persons like fossil, with point it being small, fast and easy to learn and ok for small projects.
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• 2597[22:29:18] <rwp> I only use fossil when working with SQLite which is the progenitor of fossil.
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• 2602[22:32:49] <t3st3r> well, I don't mess with sqlite source so I don't use fossil myself. Though I got idea reasoning of these persons makes at least some sense to me.
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• 2612[22:39:30] <rant> whatever the issue was here, got lost in this tangent
• 2613[22:39:32] <johnjay> apparently i have to apt-get install aptitude itself. @_@
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• 2615[22:39:37] <johnjay> ok thanks for the tips
• 2616[22:39:42] <johnjay> be back after reboot
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• 2663[23:09:40] <rue_mohr> I need not-out-of-date-google-asnwers to getting udev to run a script when I plug in a usb device
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• 2665[23:09:49] <rue_mohr> can anyone help me out with that?
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• 2668[23:10:36] <at0m> set google to return results from the last year?
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• 2670[23:11:02] <at0m> might be too new for debian tho ;p
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• 2673[23:12:25] <rue_mohr> SUBSYSTEMS=="usb", ATTRS{serial}=="Panasonic_DMC-TZ5_0000000000000000005F0408090303", RUN+="/usr/bin/beep"
• 2674[23:12:30] <rue_mohr> suggestions then?
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• 2679[23:15:56] <rue_mohr> I'm not even sure how to confirm that serial number is right
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• 2684[23:18:25] <rue_mohr> ID_SERIAL_SHORT=0000000000000000005F0408090303
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• 2692[23:25:43] <velix> rue_mohr: Nice camera. I used to have TZ3
• 2693[23:26:24] <velix> Where do I put PIDs and other information about running applications when NOT being root? I can't write to /run/user as a normal user.
• 2694[23:26:42] <rue_mohr> dunno
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• 2698[23:28:11] <ksk> velix: $HOME maybe? or use the systemd style "every service has its own /tmp" thingy
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• 2700[23:28:26] <velix> ksk: It needs tmpfs, so /tmp is the only solution as it seems
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• 2702[23:29:12] <ksk> private-tmp or so its called iirc.
• 2703[23:29:25] <velix> let me google this
• 2704[23:29:36] <velix> Hehe, the first result is funny :D
• 2705[23:29:40] <velix> "How to disable debian 9 private tmp"
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• 2707[23:30:29] <ksk> velix: man systemd.exec - search for PrivateTmp=
• 2708[23:31:01] <velix> Yeah, it's a systemd feature. So nothing for ./runme
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• 2711[23:32:03] <velix> seems like I need to do some chowning them
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• 2713[23:33:09] <gvth> in bash, when executing (for f in ./*.mkv; do echo $f; done) without parantheses, is it guaranteed that 1.mkv is being output before 2.mkv?
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• 2715[23:35:15] <ayekat> gvth: yes
• 2716[23:35:20] <ksk> did not find anything related to that in man 7 glob - but I would opt in for "yes"
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• 2719[23:35:39] <ayekat> bash(1), section "Pathname Expansion"
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• 2724[23:37:27] <ayekat> of course, "alphabetically sorted" may be subject to locale-dependent differences, but that's a chapter on its own
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• 2726[23:38:23] <ksk> thanks ayekat ;)
• 2727[23:45:01] <gvth> ayekat, ksk: thanks
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