23[00:09:39] <jasonwc> Are the torrents not up yet? I'm
getting a "Tracker: [Failure reason \"torrent not
found\"] message. I wanted to seed them on my gigabit
connection.
60[00:15:38] <joze> is mariadb an option or shall I try
postgres?
61[00:15:39] <ssgelm> Nic_Wow: there really shouldn't be a
need to re-install
62[00:15:50] <jasonwc> Nic_Wow, It depends whether your
sources.list points to "stable" or "stretch"
63[00:15:53] <joze> all those oppurtunities
64[00:15:54] <ssgelm> joze: mariadb is in buster (and stretch)
65[00:16:03] <jan6> Nic_Wow: 6 hours, what are you on, a 15
year old computer?
66[00:16:48] <jasonwc> Nic_Wow, Typically, you don't want
your system updating without your knowledge so it's best to
specify the release name (stretch) and then upgrade when you're
ready. For example, upgrading can break some packages if
configuration options changed. See
replaced-url
67[00:16:52] <Nic_Wow> No, but it is dying. I use a couple year
old Inspiron 15.
68[00:17:04] <tarzeau> jasonwc: i wish there were parts in that
document showing how to install openrc safely, and how to
disable/get rid of apparmor
88[00:20:31] <ssgelm> oh, well if you use a LUKS encrypted disk
and choose to zero the disk (as you should with LUKS) I could see it
taking a long time
89[00:20:32] <jasonwc> Nic_Wow, The initial install is always
faster than an upgrade because it doesn't use sync writes.
90[00:20:34] <ssgelm> if the disk is slow
91[00:20:46] <jasonwc> Nic_Wow, apt upgrade is heavy on sync
writes
95[00:21:26] <jan6> Nic_Wow: using an ssd can speed up things a
ton, if you're planning to stick to that computer then upgrade
to an ssd might be worth considering, if possible, to reduce the
time somewhat ;P (my thinkpad from like, 2011 is very nice and
snappy)
96[00:22:09] <Nic_Wow> I'm actually researching getting a
new laptop. Something without non-free drivers.
97[00:22:13] <jan6> good
98[00:22:23] <Nic_Wow> Any recommendations for laptops?
99[00:22:29] <jan6> if you're lazy you can buy stuff from
purism or such ;P
100[00:22:42] *** Quits: metrix (~metrix@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
101[00:23:22] <Nic_Wow> What do you mean "lazy"?
102[00:23:41] <jan6> they have everything bundled up and ready
to go
103[00:23:49] <jan6> instead of you doing research
104[00:24:15] <epony> assemble from parts :-D
105[00:24:27] <epony> (in short, fuck laptops)
106[00:24:53] <wgertler> Nic_Wow: you can get plenty of
excellent old thinkpads for dirt cheap
107[00:25:20] <Nic_Wow> Building laptops and keeping them small
is super hard.
108[00:25:34] <Nic_Wow> Correct me if wrong, but your talking
desktops.
110[00:25:51] <jan6> thinkpad x series is rock solid, and as I
said, even my x220 from like, 2011 or thereabouts is very snappy and
runs everything fine, except games
111[00:26:43] <wgertler> jan6: ++
112[00:26:56] <epony> better get T series or an entry class
"business" (with Radeon discrete or Intel graphics)
113[00:27:09] <wgertler> T series is also pretty tight, at least
up to 450 (after that I don't have much experience)
114[00:27:17] <Battaglin> T480 8650U ftw
115[00:27:17] <jasonwc> Unless you need the portability,
desktops are easier to build, cheaper, and more powerful.
116[00:27:22] <jan6> don't remember if it was T or L
series, which was basically just cheaper versions of the X series
117[00:27:24] <epony> HPs are also passable on the entry
business line
124[00:28:16] <vash2511_> My x230 works like a charm
125[00:28:21] <jan6> desktops are good if you CAN use them, plus
side is that you can always for example, vnc from a cheapo laptop
and continue stuff on the go that way ;P
126[00:28:40] <haze67> is there a PCB overview program for linux
that is free with a huge database that has laptops, phones and other
PCB overview ?
127[00:29:10] <epony> I hate intel (lenovo) laptops, too
proprietary / hardware compatibility issues with spares, batteries
etc.
128[00:29:27] <epony> s/intel/ibm/
129[00:30:05] <Nic_Wow> My issue with running fully desktop is
that I need a machine I can take places.
130[00:30:26] <magic_ninja_work> I have both. I may swap over.
131[00:30:31] <epony> any entry business line laptop with
intel/radeon graphics will work fine
132[00:30:32] <magic_ninja_work> I don't know though, I run
a media server and such from it too.
133[00:30:37] <magic_ninja_work> Pretty much just use the laptop
for work.
253[01:13:13] <eletronico_hw> the error in shell : sudo chown -R
$USER:$(id -gn $USER) /home/roro/.config
254[01:13:22] <jasonwc> Regarding 5.1.6. Module configuration
for bonding and dummy interfaces in the release notes, why is
systemd being used for network configuration? I have to override a
systemd default configuration setting regarding bonding even though
I have no intention of using systemd for setting up my network?
315[01:34:04] <tfgbd_> Some OSes like Debian can't even be
installed
316[01:34:25] <ectospasm> And it depends on the setup. If you dd
an ISO image to a USB flash drive, the resulting filesystem will
definitely be read-only.
324[01:36:05] <magic_ninja> So no matter what I do, unless I set
up the file system, make it bootable, and put the files on there
myself, I can't find a device I can copy files on AND have an
OS installer.
325[01:36:08] <ectospasm> If you have a disk image that is some
other filesystem, it could definitely have a writable partition as
part of it.
326[01:36:12] <tfgbd_> I never used the Debian installer yet.
403[02:01:30] <lembron> no... the good idea is to have backups
in place already ;-)
404[02:01:41] <wgertler> fair enough haha
405[02:03:09] <jasonwc> It appears the servers are still
updating. I only see a handful of the DVD images and it's
missing all the main BD Images
406[02:03:11] <magic_ninja_work> there aren't any updates
at the moment, though, right?
407[02:03:24] <magic_ninja_work> I've been tracking Sid as
Buster.
408[02:04:01] <Battaglin> Id hoped Budgie was among desktop
choices .-(
409[02:04:40] <Sveta> just do not install a desktop, and install
budgie package later from the commandline
410[02:04:52] <Battaglin> yeah
411[02:04:54] <jasonwc> There should be no surprises since the
contents of the testing repo are simply renamed as stable today.
Debian has been in a freeze since March
412[02:04:55] <tabakhase> could someone poke the guy in charge
of tagging on docker-hub? - there is a "buster" thats one
month old and no "10" tag
421[02:07:43] <cthonic> Battaglin, Budgie is pretty close
package-wise to the default GNOME as well. On a fresh install it
seems to add ~8 packages to install budgie-desktop.
422[02:08:40] <tfg3> Does debian still ship Qtopia?
427[02:09:34] <Battaglin> bash: reboot: command not found
428[02:09:37] <Battaglin> wth
429[02:09:54] <Battaglin> cthonic: yeah.. I like budgie over
gnome a lot though
430[02:09:55] <jasonwc> So, I think those notifications are just
to ensure that you don't accidentally update your system by
accident from one stable release to another
431[02:10:03] <Sveta> Battaglin, run it as sudo ?
432[02:10:20] <Battaglin> Sveta: dont even work as root
436[02:10:41] <jasonwc> It makes you manually accept each change
and then afterwards, you can run apt update without error
437[02:10:47] <cthonic> Battaglin, seems budgie would bring in a
lot of GNOME based on those numbers. But it is true that you'd
get the rest of GNOME as well
438[02:11:01] <Sveta> jasonwc, I'm glad it allows you to
proceed, I don't know whether this is intended behaviour
440[02:11:31] <jasonwc> If you had your sources.list point to
stable rather than stretch, the alternative would be updating your
entire system without necessarily realizing the choise you are
making. This would be particularly problematic if the update was
through unattended-updates
445[02:12:52] <jasonwc> " Previous versions of
unattended-upgrades defaulted to installing only upgrades that came
from the security suite. In buster it now also automates upgrading
to the latest stable point release. For details, see the
package's NEWS.Debian file. "
446[02:12:55] <tfg3> What happens when stable goes away?
447[02:13:17] <nohop> You guys aware that the "Debian 10
\"buster\" released" link on debian.org is broken?
448[02:13:24] <jasonwc> tfg3, It becomes oldstable
451[02:14:04] <jasonwc> tfg3, Debian releases are supported by
the Debian security team for approximately 3 years, and another 2
years from the LTS team. There is even Extended LTS support for
select packages.
452[02:14:09] <ssgelm> nohop: it’s in the middle of being
pushed out
453[02:14:10] <jasonwc> tfg3, So, you get approximately 5 years
of support
454[02:14:22] <nohop> ssgelm: I'm eager! :)
455[02:14:32] <Deihmos> Is buster expected this year?
459[02:14:45] <nohop> Deihmos: Yeah. Minutes from now, I guess.
460[02:14:46] <jasonwc> Sveta, I'm pretty sure it's
intended behavior to protect unexpected surprises - particularly
from the new unattended-updates behavior
461[02:15:05] <jasonwc> Sveta, It would be quite bad for your
system to be automatically updated to a new stable release without
your knowledge.
478[02:19:15] <jasonwc> tfg3, The LTS and Extended LTS support
is free. Certain organizations that need longer support periods
sponsor packages and pay for the time required to prepare security
updates. However, the updates are available to everyone.
479[02:19:30] <jasonwc> tfg3, For most users, 5 years should be
plenty.
480[02:19:35] <tfg3> Is that for the science?
481[02:19:49] <tfg3> 5 years? Is that all?
482[02:20:31] <phogg> 5 years for free
483[02:20:39] <jasonwc> If you need 10 years of updates,
you're probably going to be running CentOS/RHEL or openSUSE
603[03:13:56] <dstaring> That's got to be a joke. You
support DREAMCAST (as in the 1998 video game console?) but not RPI
generation 1?
604[03:14:01] <dstaring> If you type "apt-check" in
your Debian, what does it output? (Possibly have to run
/usr/lib/update-notifier/apt-check )
605[03:15:47] <Nic_Wow> aye, to update my OS do I just change
all mentions "stretch" to "buster" in
'/etc/apt/sources.list' ?
606[03:15:58] <tfgbd_> I don't see THE Dreamcast there on
their help pages
607[03:16:07] <Nic_Wow> Should I be worried that it will break
my system/apps?
608[03:17:56] <jasonwc> dstaring, Rasbian is based on Debian,
and the newest release for The RPi 4 is based on Buster. The Debian
page indicates that it will work on all variants, including the
first one (but it will not make the best use of the floating point
hardware on the first version)
609[03:18:01] <jasonwc> dstaring, See
replaced-url
614[03:19:34] <jasonwc> dstaring, Also, "The Raspberry Pi
1's processor falls uncomfortably between the processor
families that Debian has chosen to target. While Raspbian solves
this to some degree an unofficial port will always give less
certainty than an official one. (This doesn' stand anymore for
the Raspberry Pi 2) "
615[03:20:35] <jasonwc> dstaring, Yeah, sounds like it does have
some binary blobs - "A binary blob used by the GPU must be
present on the SD card for the system to boot." + "3D
acceleration is not integrated with X or other standard mechanisms
and the Raspberry Pi Foundation don't seem to show any interest
in doing so. Therefore 3D applications will require Pi specific
builds."
634[03:27:38] <dstaring> jasonwc and tfgbd_: Here's the
situation: I have a RPI generation 1 and have installed Raspbian on
it. It runs, but the more I (attempt) to use it, the more I realize
how they have changed tons of random stuff around, breaking even the
most fundamental things such as being able to check (with a script)
if there are new security updates required to manually deal with.
Only after wasting countless $time_units did somebody finally tell
me about
635[03:27:38] <dstaring> "apt-check", which does
exactly what I've been asking for... but only on
"pure" Debian. On Raspbian, they have *deleted it*.
Apparently. So Raspbian is worthless to me now.
636[03:27:50] <rant> jasonwc: you're treading a dangerous
line saying that
637[03:28:21] <rant> jasonwc: armbian is as you described..
raspbian is a seperate distro just like ubuntu or such, its a
complete and seperate repository
638[03:28:52] <rant> armbian however is only an installer and
repos with kernels and hw support packages, it actually uses debian
repos
639[03:29:20] <rant> the modification and seperate maint of the
packages is what makes the difference
640[03:29:59] <echeveria> rant: armbian has some goofy changes
to bash, doesn't it?
641[03:29:59] <dstaring> My RPI has spent 5 years in the storage
space, only getting to visit the outside room every so often when I
attempt to use it for something, only to go back in there soon
after...
642[03:30:13] <rant> echeveria: it can't it doesnt have
bash in its repos
643[03:30:39] <dstaring> Other than the lack of basic security,
it also has no support for disk encryption, which also makes things
even more annoying...
644[03:31:11] <echeveria> rant: I swear it had a couple of goofy
things changes in the default bashrc
649[03:32:06] <rant> echeveria: they include a couple support
packages that do stuff like hardware monitoring, which puts info
into the bashrc for displaying stats whne you login
650[03:32:17] <rant> there isnt even a pool/main/b/ on their
repository
651[03:32:24] <ryouma> is it legit to upgrade to buster from
stretch using apt-get instead of apt?
652[03:32:31] <rant> they have but a handful of packages and
they're all specific to the hardware
653[03:32:34] <ryouma> ae there differences from jessie to
stretch?
654[03:32:37] *** Quits: electro33 (uid613@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
655[03:32:59] <rant> ryouma: you should always read the release
notes and follow the instructions in the Ch4 on upgrades
656[03:33:17] <rant> ryouma: apt and apt-get do behave slightly
differently.. but for the most part, yes, you could use either
657[03:33:25] *** Quits: bla (~bla@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
665[03:36:08] <ryouma> rant doesn't apt-get already install
suggests at least? what is the difference?
666[03:36:17] <rant> you can probably use apt-get with no
issues, but the official stance is as it has always been, when
upgrading, go to the release notes (chapter 4) on upgrades and
follow the instructions
667[03:37:17] <ryouma> rant the ambiguous part is if you want to
use apt-get, the note is not clear if it is saying don't use
apt for scripting as opposed to don't use apt-get for upgrading
and here are the differences.
668[03:37:19] <tfgbd_> can't you just apt-get install
apt-check
669[03:38:09] <rant> ryouma: apt shouldnt be used for scripting
based on its OUTPUT because its OUTPUT is not consistent.. same
reason they say not to parse output of ls
670[03:38:19] <ryouma> rant. agreed. however, there are those
who have legacy settings for their apt-get upgrades, including for
example conffile settings and so on. it is not clear whether you
have to translate that over to apt or if youc an just run apt-get
without modification.
672[03:38:34] <ryouma> rant yes that is what it says
673[03:39:12] <rant> ryouma: you should be able to both safely
use apt-get for the upgrade as well as safely replace apt-get with
apt in scripts provided you are not parsing the OUTPUT of it
674[03:39:44] <ryouma> rant so it is a drop in replacement with
all those options and stuff?
692[03:45:08] <rant> s390 on the other hand was supported from
3-7
693[03:45:18] <tfgbd_> Sorry, get those mixed up
694[03:45:29] <rant> now only s390x is supported
695[03:45:33] <tfgbd_> Last time I checked, s390 was supported
696[03:45:35] <tfgbd_> ohh
697[03:45:36] <rant> !s390
698[03:45:36] <dpkg> s390 is a port of Debian, which uses the
Linux kernel on IBM System/390 (aka S/390, zSeries) mainframe
hardware. It was previously a supported architecture from Debian 3.0
"Woody" until Debian 7 "Wheezy". It has been
replaced by the <s390x> port.
replaced-url
699[03:45:41] <ryouma> interesting. did not know that processor
would affect apt
700[03:45:41] <tfgbd_> There is a difference?
701[03:45:42] <rant> !s390x
702[03:45:42] <dpkg> s390x is a port of Debian, which uses the
Linux kernel and provides a 64-bit userland on IBM System/390 (aka
S/390, zSeries) mainframe hardware. The s390x architecture was
introduced at Debian 7 "Wheezy".
703[03:46:02] <ryouma> i wish apt(1) were named so that it were
not a confusion with the generic term
704[03:46:14] <rant> tfgbd_: apparently its the change to a
64bit userland
714[03:49:30] <areyouloco> i just got email from the mailing
list that debian buster kust got stable. where can I get it? is it
already pushed by ftpmasters?
715[03:49:48] <rant> afaik s/390 is /technically/ a 32bit arch,
but does support 64bit registers..
716[03:50:26] <rant> its a rare breed of 32bit machine that can
run a 64bit userland on what is ultimately a 32bit processor
717[03:50:51] <ryouma> what does 64 bit mean? address space?
registers? what?
718[03:50:58] <ryouma> instructions?
719[03:50:59] *** Quits: dtux (~dmtucker@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
723[03:52:18] <rant> afaik s/390 are technically 32bit, and
s390x are technically 32bit kernels with a 64bit userland.. but I
never used any of these machines so I really have nfc
724[03:52:47] <rant> the successor of the s390 was the zSeries
which ARE 64 bit
726[03:54:21] <rant> ryouma: I have no idea what your apt-get
call script is, or why you want to use it.. all I can say is what
I've already said... the official support on the matter is to
follow what the release notes say
727[03:54:40] <rant> ryouma: if you wanna do it differently,
thats up to you.. and you can ask questions if you run into trouble
728[03:55:07] <ryouma> talking in circles about the note about
apt-get int he release notes. thanks for your interest.
729[03:55:38] <rant> but personally I wouldnt even try it unless
I had a pretty damn good reason.. its just stubbornly doing
something other than what is recommended without a need for it, is
just silly
730[03:56:36] <whislock> I haven't had the opportunity to
mess with an S/390 in about 8 years.
731[03:57:49] <rant> I seen one in a garage when I was doing
some work for someone once.. it was gathering dust
749[04:02:28] <rant> the s/360 is some 60 year old relic that
looks like the kind of thing you saw in old scifi film with red
lights and switches
750[04:02:42] <rant> its not really a computer in the modern
sense :P
751[04:03:11] <rant> afaik its not even a hardware spec as such
752[04:03:30] <binaryhermit> ia64 is itanic, right
753[04:03:36] <binaryhermit> err, itanium
754[04:03:41] <rant> as we would know it today.. the s/360 spec
assumes very little about the hw
755[04:03:44] <rant> !ia64
756[04:03:45] <dpkg> Intel Itanium Architecture (formerly IA-64)
is Intel's *other* 64-bit architecture. Itanium processors are
primarily found in HP Integrity servers.
replaced-url
757[04:05:00] <tfgbd_> Oh no!
758[04:05:06] <whislock> My mistake, I was working with S/370
analogues, not the 360.
759[04:05:12] <tfgbd_> Don't stop supporting i386
760[04:05:45] <themill> meh there's no hardware out there
that needs it
761[04:06:13] <binaryhermit> tfgbd_: *wince*
762[04:06:26] <binaryhermit> and I doubt that i386 is going
anywhere soon
763[04:06:37] <tfgbd_> i486 or i686 then
764[04:07:10] <rant> really dropping ia64 was a bit premature
judging by the official info from intel
replaced-url
765[04:07:54] <tfgbd_> Most of your userbase depends on i486 I
think.
766[04:08:20] <binaryhermit> actually, I think the linux kernel
doesn't support 386 anymore
767[04:08:30] <rant> yeah the i386 is a bit misleading we
haven't actually supported a 386 in ages.. its not possible
768[04:08:47] <binaryhermit> what's debian i386 compiled
for
769[04:08:51] * binaryhermit guesses 686
770[04:09:22] <rant> yes we only support 686 or better as of
right now from Stretch onward
771[04:09:31] <rant> !i386
772[04:09:32] <dpkg> Debian's i386 port is for some subset
of the 32-bit x86 instruction set as has grown organically over the
years. From Debian 6 Squeeze onwards, only 586 machines and newer
are supported, while from Debian 9 Stretch, only 686 processors will
be supported. See
replaced-url
821[04:24:43] *** Quits: crtcji (~crtcji@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
822[04:24:49] <Highdude> oof
823[04:24:53] <Highdude> asking people to RTFM
824[04:25:02] <Highdude> what are you thinking :O
825[04:25:20] <ryouma> or update, right?
826[04:25:27] <rant> Highdude: as I told ryouma earlier the
policy is the same as always.. you should read the release notes for
the suite you're upgrading TO chapter 4 on upgrades, and follow
the instructions.. they say to use apt
827[04:25:31] <ryouma> i mean, if you uypdate it probably would
not error or ask right?
837[04:27:37] <rant> Highdude: its one of several more recent
security features added to the repositories and package managers is
all.. its trying to protect you from breakage or unautorized
packages
843[04:28:50] <rant> apt is now the newer superset frontend that
is shipped in the apt package along with apt-get .. it combines the
features of many older commands and adds some new conveniences like
sorted formatted output and such
844[04:29:13] <rant> so using it, will require less
understanding of the changes
845[04:29:23] <ryouma> i thought release file signing was not
new. is it?
846[04:29:56] <rant> not in this release, no.. but there were
quite a few changes in our recent history
847[04:30:00] *** Quits: tyranny12 (~blarg@replaced-ip) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
853[04:30:46] <Highdude> and are commands the same between the
two or do they differ and i should pay more attention?
854[04:30:52] <rant> to me, in Debian terms, our recent history
is spanning 5 suites.. currently Jessie, Stretch, Buster, Bookworm,
Sid
855[04:30:54] <ryouma> with apt-get you can do
--verbose-versions \ --show-upgraded \ but idk if you can also do in
apt. apt-get has scriptable output. otherwise idk.
878[04:34:03] <rant> I am beginning to understand a need for
paranoia in computing cause there is a vast threat of data mining
and privacy concerns.. but I dont see how knowing I use debian and
what packages I download are an issue :P
881[04:34:31] <ryouma> i actually used tor+http and regular
repos simultaneously because of an obscure vuln regardign rleases
file but idr if that was due to it not being singed. common sense
suggests it has beens igned forever.
882[04:34:32] <tfgbd_> Some people can't afford internet
883[04:34:33] <Sveta> people should be aware of it and it should
be opt-in, then it is not an issue
884[04:34:34] <rant> I dont see publishing my apt/dpkg logs on a
global public scale as an issue
885[04:34:39] <Sveta> it also should be anonymous
886[04:34:42] <Highdude> enough data and it can be used to piece
your whole life together
887[04:34:52] <Highdude> thne you have people target you and its
weird sometimes
888[04:35:18] <Sveta> if it is not anonymous, someone
automatically knows you use debian for photo image processing, and
this is probably something not every photographer wants the whole
world to know
889[04:35:32] <rant> you're preaching to the choir on the
targetting and the reasons for it.. my life has been railroaded for
some time due to such things
902[04:37:09] <Highdude> when i think how long ive been on irc i
feel old at times
903[04:37:11] <Highdude> lol
904[04:37:14] <Synaptic> buster released?
905[04:37:31] <Highdude> yes
906[04:37:33] <lembron> isnt the point of things like the tor
mirror to provide better service for inside-tor-already users,
rather then an explicit "putting them into tor" - as in,
if you switch on tor to apt youre "doing it wrong" kinda
deal.. ((how valid that is is another question))
907[04:37:37] <tfgbd_> I've only been on since 2000 :(
908[04:38:17] <Highdude> i started in about 95-97 when i was a
youngster
909[04:38:23] <Highdude> my dad showed me it and i loved it
910[04:38:31] <Highdude> talk to people all around the world
then, un heard of
913[04:38:55] <rant> well for me, I had been using Win2k around
that time, and went to a news site that had embedded video, fairly
new stuff around the millenium.. embedding videos everywhere..
quired a WMP update which left me in a reboot loop, it was the last
straw and I went to the store and bought RedHat for $24 and that
sucked, so within the 2 years from 2000ish to 2002/2003ish when I
wound up here I was searching for the
914[04:39:01] <rant> right fit.. and I came across debian.org
from distrowatch and saw the Why Debian? and Social Contract docs
and I was sold.
915[04:39:46] <rant> Debian's priorities, goals, and
promises were mind blowing to me as a Windows refugee
916[04:39:52] <tfgbd_> I think my cult closed. Ain't no
WinCE channels
917[04:40:04] <Highdude> i played around with linux,
speccifically redhat and suse around 2001 or so
918[04:40:28] <Highdude> but didnt actually switch for desktop
until around 2010
919[04:40:32] <Highdude> and only sometimes
920[04:40:47] <Highdude> but then things happened, and times
changed for me
927[04:41:25] * themill searches for the Debian user support question
928[04:41:30] <ryouma> lembron: sorry can you rephrase?
929[04:41:33] <Highdude> they fixed the windows 7 issues, but it
seemed like every update it was getting worse
930[04:41:38] <Highdude> i got fed up and back to ubuntu
931[04:41:44] <Highdude> then i learned more and tinkered
932[04:41:56] <Highdude> and ubuntu wasnt for me, but i liked
the base so i tried debian
933[04:41:59] <Highdude> and now its my goto
934[04:42:31] <Highdude> even for servers, i used to prefer
centos. now i will take debian over anything if i can
935[04:42:51] <rant> the one I had bought was RH 5.2 which was
crap.. and from what RH fans have told me, they all seem to admit
5.2 was one of their worst releases.. I tried corel and it was
worse, then I found Mandrake 7.x and stayed with it through 8.x it
was nice and simple but I realized there was more to linux than
I'd ever learn from such a poorly documented vaguely
proprietary system (lot of their fancy gui tools were
936[04:42:57] <rant> proprietary), so I went looking for the
/right/ OS and I fooled a bit with slackware and it felt close to
right but required too much time to configure. and then I found
Debian and it had it all.. was well documented, fully open, ready to
use out of the box, but allowed for the slackware level of config as
desired.
937[04:43:22] <rant> but I digress.. we could b.s. about this in
#debian-offtopic :P
938[04:44:30] <rant> Highdude: debian is nice in this regaurd do
to overal sane priorities and WIDHE compliant binary packages ready
to use
939[04:45:37] <Highdude> lol
940[04:45:39] <rant> though I suppose systemd was one that put
the sanity into question.. I'm still not 100% comfortable with
that..
941[04:45:54] <Highdude> i was just a kid trying to learn, and
at the time my dad thought linux was the devil
942[04:46:10] <Highdude> so it was hard, i had to beg to even
let him allow me to get my own hdd and dual boot
943[04:46:54] <rant> they didn't violate the Social
Contract as such.. so I have been trying to make due.. but systemd
overstepped its scope and boundaries as a sysvinit replacement and
offered up more attack surface for bugs and security concerns.. its
not ideal in that regard
944[04:46:57] <themill> !apt suite changed
945[04:46:58] <dpkg> If you were already using Debian 10
"Buster" prior to it being released as stable, apt
complain about changes to the release information on the mirror.
apt(8) will prompt you to accept changes; apt-get(8) will need
--allow-releaseinfo-change
957[04:49:10] <Tom-_> i checked on sid weeks ago I guess
958[04:49:20] <rant> Highdude: only part of that that annoys me
is the loss of /var/log/dmesg and the dependency on it would create
issues in situations where the journald itself is broken
959[04:49:25] <Highdude> and how much configuring of packages do
you have to do if you do that
965[04:49:54] <tfgbd_> Where is that ARM debian version:
replaced-url
966[04:49:56] <Highdude> yea, i noticed that a few weeks back
967[04:50:01] <Highdude> trying to do something with bind
968[04:50:05] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o themill
969[04:50:22] <rant> as a sysvinit replacement its not really
bad at all.. its just a bad idea to integrate that init replacement
with all this other shit to the point it cant be differentiated
anymore
970[04:50:25] <Highdude> and i went the traditional steps i
would, editing config files of bind
995[04:58:52] <rant> I was testing it out yesterday to see if I
could get it to recognize the difference between Avril Lavigne,
Taylor Swift, Hayley Williams and my father's dog :P
996[04:59:13] <rant> I was not impressed with its facial
recognition/auto tagging abilities
1003[05:01:06] <rant> tfgbd_: among other things
replaced-url
1004[05:01:42] <rant> tfgbd_: its batch manager can do any number
of things, rename, convert, edit, etc.. and the digikam then
maintains all modified versions of the same file linked to the
original
1005[05:02:11] <rant> its an all around batch manager can do any
number of things all in one
1020[05:06:56] <tfgbd_> Does digiKam support ARM and SH3?
1021[05:07:10] <Tom-_> Highdude, i have to check more, it
doesn't seem probable at this point
1022[05:07:11] <tfgbd_> old gen devices?
1023[05:07:11] <rant> my current handheld is a Galaxy S7 without
a sim card.. my only gripe is the stock android rom on it.. ugh..
the hardware is great :D
1024[05:07:33] <tfgbd_> Is there anything cool like XNView Pocket
for Android?
1038[05:10:26] <rant> tfgbd_: buster (testing) (graphics):
digital photo management application for KDE 4:5.9.0-1+b1: amd64
arm64 armel armhf i386 mips mips64el mipsel ppc64el s390x
1039[05:10:37] <tabakhase> seems like that guy may be EU tho...
so i wont cry until like another 12h... (5am centralEU)
1040[05:10:53] <rant> tfgbd_: I tried it as a guest, but
wasn't impressed with that.. guests on such a small device are
annoying.. and its not real hacker friendly for changing the native
software
1041[05:11:04] <mojikun> /msg dpkg apt suite changed
1042[05:11:12] <rant> mojikun: no space before the /
1043[05:11:30] <mojikun> yeah i figured
1044[05:11:40] <tabakhase> !apt suite changed
1045[05:11:40] <dpkg> If you were already using Debian 10
"Buster" prior to it being released as stable, apt
complain about changes to the release information on the mirror.
apt(8) will prompt you to accept changes; apt-get(8) will need
--allow-releaseinfo-change
1049[05:12:12] <dpkg> Stretch is the codename for the current
<oldstable> release, Debian 9, released 2017-06-17.
"Stretch" is the rubber octopus in Toy Story 3, see
replaced-url
1050[05:12:20] <mojikun> !dpkg stretch->buster
1051[05:12:20] <dpkg> Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of
the <release notes>
replaced-url
1052[05:12:37] <rant> tfgbd_: idk wth the SH3 is, but the sid
version of digikam mentions SH4
1053[05:12:59] <rant> erm no, thats a debports for sh4
1054[05:13:03] <rant> !sh3
1055[05:13:06] <rant> !sh4
1056[05:13:09] <mojikun> what is dmo? never heard of third party
repos. ubuntu has ppas but on debian never heard any
1057[05:13:10] * rant shrugs
1058[05:13:22] <Tom-_> !dmo
1059[05:13:22] <dpkg> We recommend against using
deb-multimedia.org; these unofficial packages are known to cause
many hard to debug problems. They are not in Debian either because
the they are poor in quality or for legal reasons. See
replaced-url
1060[05:13:44] <mojikun> oh. never used that
1061[05:13:50] <rant> mojikun: dmo was put together many years
ago when we had lots of issues like dvd encryption, mp3 libs..etc..
that were not available in debian
1062[05:14:00] <rant> its HIGHLY RECOMMENDED AGAINST now
1063[05:14:17] <rant> as it could result in a great deal of
breakage and is largely no longer needed
1064[05:14:18] <mojikun> i never needed it. mpv and vlc seem to
play all multimedia
1081[05:18:38] <rant> mojikun: meh.. well backports are /allowed/
to bypass normal policy and pull fixes directly from sid, but its
all done on a per-package at the maintainers will basis.. they are
of less quality you might say
1082[05:19:35] <rant> mojikun: they do not get security updates
by the security team, like a ssb you make yourself, they are
required to be seperately maintained by whoever made them
1083[05:19:56] <rant> mojikun: which depending on who that was
and their level of interest and such.. may or may not be a bad thing
1084[05:20:19] <rant> it could in theory due to the lax policy,
make the package more current, and faster updated/patched/fixed than
anything else
1121[05:46:53] <Tom-_> although apparently it changes rapidly
1122[05:46:55] <Tom-_> dpkg, bullseye
1123[05:46:55] <dpkg> The release following Debian 10
"Buster" is codenamed "Bullseye" (Woody's
horse in Toy Story 2) and will be Debian 11. It is the current
"testing" release. Remember that straight after a stable
release, all sorts of mess suddenly lands in "testing" and
it is best avoided if you don't like debugging things.
replaced-url
1126[05:49:21] <Kon-> Congratulations to everyone involved on a
great release. There's some exciting stuff happening in Buster!
I hope newer users can be made aware of the Calamares installer
option
1128[05:49:33] <rant> mojikun: you can also often use a chroot or
backport it yourself fairly easily
1129[05:49:42] <rant> mojikun: /msg dpkg ssb
1130[05:49:53] <annadane> isn't calamares a fish dish?
1131[05:49:55] <dstaring> Can somebody help me out? If you type
"apt-check" in your Debian, what does it output? (Possibly
have to run /usr/lib/update-notifier/apt-check )
1132[05:50:11] <dstaring> I'm trying to verify that: 1. This
thing exists by default. 2. Only outputs a number such as
"4;6".
1151[05:53:25] <dstaring> SO... Is it entirely meaningless for me
to try to install REAL Debian on my RPI v1 (headless)? Since
Raspbian is dangerous crippleware lacking even the most basic
security?
1152[05:53:29] <Tom-_> dstaring, apt-check is not on my Debian 9
cloud
1153[05:53:29] *** Quits: Nic_Wow (~Nic-Wow@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1154[05:53:36] <dstaring> Tom-_: Really? Hmm...
1155[05:53:36] <Kon-> annadane: Yes it's a fish but
it's also the name of a streamlined GUI installer for distros.
Used by a lot of Debian derivatives like KDE Neon and Lubuntu.
Manjaro uses it as well
1156[05:53:41] <Tom-_> or in the base installation of Debian 10,
so far
1157[05:53:41] <dstaring> Tom-_: Not even if you use that full
path?
1158[05:53:45] <kreyren> meh.. i had to deal with it on few OS
and it's pita.. Would be cool if debian provided tarball stage
like gentoo/exherbo tho
1159[05:53:55] <Tom-_> ah i hadn't checked the full path
1160[05:54:12] <Tom-_> dstaring, bash:
/usr/lib/update-notifier/apt-check: No such file or directory
1161[05:54:30] *** Quits: Shahnaz- (~Shahnaz@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1162[05:54:36] <dstaring> Tom-_: Hmm!
1163[05:54:46] <Guest91755> Hello, I'm afraid I had a nasty
crash while full-upgrading from 9.9, it looked like this:
replaced-url
1170[05:56:55] <Guest91755> And I can't execute most of my
common programs, like irssi or even man :/ I think I'm stuck on
a broken system now
1171[05:57:02] <Guest91755> Yes, thank you :)
1172[05:57:26] <Guest91755> I would, but I'm on my phone
since my pc is so broken
1173[05:57:29] <Tom-_> dstaring, I don't see a /apt-check in
any directory in the stretch Contents-foo.gz files
1174[05:57:41] <Tom-_> maybe update-notifier is an Ubuntu package
1175[05:57:47] <Tom-_> ,v update-notifier
1176[05:57:47] <dstaring> Tom-_: Strange. It's mentioned
online as "undocumented"...
1177[05:57:47] <judd> Package: update-notifier on amd64 --
jessie: 3.14.0-1
1178[05:58:06] <Tom-_> is your Debian the jessie version,
dstaring?
1179[05:58:14] <dstaring> "Undocumented" and
"basic security" feel incompatible...
1180[05:58:31] <s8ori> security through obscurity!
1181[05:58:38] <dstaring> Tom-_: I only have Raspbian myself so
far. This was advice given to me by a person on freenode.
1182[05:58:49] <rant> kreyren: mono 5.20 will likely only ever be
available in sid or bookworm at this point, it has never to my
knowledge been backported.. its use is not common installation of a
mono runtime is about 10% or less of our user base according to
obtainable statistics, its maint has been spotty over its history,
and to my knowledge nothing we actually ship requires it
1183[05:58:54] <Tom-_> dstaring, what advice?
1184[05:58:59] <dstaring> Tom-_: (It doesn't exist on
Raspbian.)
1185[05:59:11] <Tom-_> Guest91755, maybe ping me in like half an
hour (say my name)
1186[05:59:20] <dstaring> Tom-_: I'm trying to check if my
Raspbian/Debian system needs my attention to install any security
updates.
1187[05:59:20] <rant> kreyren: its one of those things where if
you really want to see it improve you are going to have to help
support it
1189[05:59:32] <Guest91755> Ok, I will, thanks a lot
1190[05:59:40] <dstaring> Tom-_: In a non-interactive manner.
That is, the check is being made through my script. Not typed out as
a command manually.
1191[05:59:57] <Tom-_> i think you should ask in raspbian
1192[05:59:58] <Tom-_> !raspbian
1193[05:59:59] <dpkg> Raspbian is a distribution <based on
Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian
is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use
#raspbian (or #raspberrypi) on irc.freenode.net for support.
replaced-url
1194[06:00:25] <Tom-_> !unattended-upgrades
1195[06:00:25] <dpkg> well, unattended-upgrades is a package for
installing security upgrades automatically, unattended. See
replaced-url
1197[06:00:26] <dstaring> Tom-_: I've asked, and asked, and
asked... they either know nothing or don't want to explain it.
1198[06:00:37] <rant> kreyren: the simplest way to help grow
support for such a thing if you lack the time/ability to really help
with development type things is to install and use popcon so that
your use of the package is recorded and its seen as being used by
more people and thus more important, and to provide as much feedback
and pushing on the BTS and mailing lists and such as possible
1199[06:01:30] <dstaring> dpkg: It feels rude to say it, but
I've seen that URL a number of times over the last X months and
every time I load it, I just fall back into my chair from
exhausting. For real. Literally.
1200[06:01:31] <dpkg> dstaring: You are person #1 to send an
unparseable request
1207[06:01:59] <dpkg> I am an infobot. For more information, ask
me about <infobot>.
1208[06:02:14] <themill> dstaring: All I can see you is trolling
#raspbian. Not surprised you didn't get an answer.
1209[06:02:50] <dstaring> themill: Just because you have a mental
illness where you apparently waste everyone's time all day,
doesn't mean this is the case for everyone else.
1210[06:02:54] <dstaring> themill!*@* added to ignore list.
1215[06:03:25] <rant> dstaring: perhaps webmin might be of
interest to you, it is available from their website and provides you
with a web interface to know if updates are avaialble and perform
upgrades
1221[06:07:47] <rant> the only thing I've ever used mono for
is opensim, and I have many times considered just rewriting the
whole damn program from scratch in something else :P
1227[06:12:34] <Tom-_> Guest91755, I don't know what's
going on there, some libnfs package had the same file as another
libnfs package. i think that's not supposed to happen
1228[06:12:41] *** bliv is now known as bl1v
1229[06:13:12] <Guest91755> Yeah, it came out of nowhere
1230[06:13:21] <Tom-_> Guest91755, you can try running `dpkg
--configure -a` or `apt-get -f install` a few times to see if it
improves anything, and then maybe another image (don't type the
quotes ``)
1231[06:13:30] <Tom-_> dpkg, paste?
1232[06:13:31] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this
channel. Instead, use for text:
replaced-url
1251[06:18:34] <bl1v> this is what happened, coming from dpkg
--configure -a :
replaced-url
1252[06:18:46] <rant> not to mention we can't easily search
the text or view it on our terminals.. you don't do yourself
justice using screenshots when you could use pastes
1253[06:19:26] <bl1v> I know, I'm sorry, I thought I
wouldn't be able to use anything else
1254[06:19:34] <themill> bl1v: the actual error is before what
you pasted
1255[06:20:42] <bl1v> here's the whole thing
replaced-url
1256[06:21:55] <themill> you've got a stack of dmo packages
in there
1260[06:23:13] <dpkg> To list all packages you have installed
from deb-multimedia.org: aptitude search
'?narrow(?version(CURRENT),?origin(Unofficial Multimedia
Packages))' --disable-columns -F%p. Note: apt must know about
the origin repository for this to work (i.e. you have a
'deb' line for it in sources.list and 'apt-get
update' has been run). See also <which repo>.
1261[06:23:35] <themill> (that might still work in the middle of
an upgrade)
1262[06:23:57] <mojikun> lets hope wayland seems more support
now, and active development since the debian move to wayland as
default for gnome
1270[06:29:12] <rant> thats one way to go about it.. assuming
there isnt more, where the line themill/dpkg said comes into play
1271[06:29:37] <rant> I just parsed the output of your paste and
had it list the package names all on one line for anything that had
a dmo version number
1272[06:29:51] <rant> its less precise but should help none the
less
1273[06:30:14] <tfgbd_> Is there a debian for "Device
Emulator" ?
1274[06:30:43] *** Parts: Primer (~daniel@replaced-ip) ("Leaving")
1275[06:30:51] <rant> tfgbd_: is there an english for "what
you just said"?
1276[06:31:28] <tfgbd_> Microsoft makes this ARM board I use.
1277[06:31:34] <annadane> QEMU, i guess...
1278[06:31:38] <tfgbd_> Noo
1279[06:31:38] <Kon-> How does a user end up with all these dmo
packages when they never heard of deb-multimedia.org?
1280[06:31:49] <tfgbd_> This is a different "open
source" ARM board.
1282[06:32:37] <themill> Kon-: read a 5 year old tutorial written
by someone with 10 year out of date info who probably didn't
know what they were talking about to begin with, and just copied a
couple of commands.
1283[06:32:44] *** Quits: BenNZ (~Ben__@replaced-ip) (Quit: Everytime I think IQ's must have dropped recently, I
remember that this is the internet)
1284[06:33:02] <Kon-> lol fair enough, I'm sure that happens
every day
1285[06:33:03] <rant> if you are asking if there is a debian
installer for some board and whatever idiot made it, called it
"Device Emulator" we need more than that.. cause thats
HORRENDOUSLY VAGUE
1286[06:33:09] <bl1v> yeah pretty much
1287[06:33:26] <bl1v> and then forgot about all I did
1288[06:33:46] <bl1v> so dpkg's method for filtering dmo
packages gives me this list
replaced-url
1289[06:34:12] <bl1v> I suppose I should those instead?
1336[06:46:53] <bl1v> does that even make sense :P
1337[06:47:01] <Tom-_> bl1v, have you removed dmo from you
/etc/apt/sources.list files, and souces.list.d files, and done an
apt-get update yet?
1338[06:47:18] <Tom-_> ty that and maybe an apt-get -f install to
see if apt will help out
1339[06:47:30] <bl1v> oh, so I had to remove the repos first
1340[06:47:33] <bl1v> I'm such an eternal noob
1341[06:47:49] <rant> tfgbd_: I've tried to run a super
light GUI on my opi lite and it has a quad core 1.2ghz cpu and 512MB
ram and it barely managed.. and that was running NATIVELY
1342[06:48:25] <rant> tfgbd_: and this will not be an easy
install.. it will require cross compiling, manually building kernel,
rootfs, uboot images, etc..
1349[06:51:33] <bl1v> removed the repo, updated, and looks like I
got the same error
replaced-url
1350[06:52:45] <bl1v> but I think libnfs8 is not installed on my
system, or is it?
replaced-url
1351[06:52:47] <tehnull> why is sudo apt-get dist-upgrade not
working for me? I'm on 9.9. Do I need to wait a bit for mirrors
to update or something?
1352[06:52:50] *** Quits: torbo (~user@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1353[06:52:54] <Sveta> someone is asking me why
Unattended-upgrades is not a part of non-gui debian by default. is
it a part of some 'all nice important server stuff'
metapackage, or how to debian server administrators learn of it?
1354[06:53:11] <Sveta> I learned of it on irc.
1355[06:53:17] <rant> tehnull: you do not apt-get dist-upgrade
for one thing
1356[06:53:19] <tfgbd_> Don't use KDE
1357[06:53:26] <tfgbd_> Use GNOME2
1358[06:53:39] <rant> tehnull: then you might want to be less
vague
1359[06:54:13] <tehnull> It's my understanding that's
how I upgrade to buster?
1360[06:54:13] <tfgbd_> Why are you compiling more ARM debians if
the orange pi already comes with one?
1362[06:54:34] <Tom-_> Highdude, it does not appear to be
possible to install Cinnamon or GNOME and use sysvinit at the same
time on Debian 10 without outwitting the package manage or
recompiling things
1363[06:54:40] <rant> tehnull: your understanding is incomplete
and didnt come from the release notes
1364[06:55:08] <rant> tfgbd_: trust me, if you should get an
orange pi, do NOT use any of their images.. they have memory leaks,
backdoors, etc..
1365[06:55:25] *** Quits: b (~coffee@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1366[06:55:27] <bl1v> status: installed lol
1367[06:55:28] <tfgbd_> Oh
1368[06:55:33] <tfgbd_> Can't you get some 3rd party one?
1369[06:55:38] <Tom-_> which seems unfortunate to me
1370[06:55:40] <tfgbd_> Does the same apply to the UK based
Rasbian?
1371[06:55:41] <rant> tfgbd_: and you're f'n high if
you think it'd run any DE.. with only 512MB ram.. I was only
running a light wm and a light panel
1372[06:55:48] <tehnull> well clearly the upgrade isn't
"automatically being handled" if I'm still on 9.9
1373[06:56:01] <aljoni> I have just installed Debian 10, how
should I install Nvidia drivers? Following the instructions for
Debian 9?
1374[06:56:05] <tfgbd_> The Raspberry Pi Zero worked fine with
the desktop to me.
1375[06:56:10] <themill> tehnull: you might need to explain more
what you've done
1376[06:56:14] <tfgbd_> 512mb
1377[06:56:27] <tfgbd_> The HD2 also worked fine with Gnome
1378[06:56:45] <tehnull> why is this so confusing I've done
nothing but try and upgrade to buster like I've already said
1379[06:56:54] <bl1v> alright, I removed libnfs8 with dpkg
1380[06:57:02] <themill> tehnull: that isn't actually
telling anyone what you have done
1381[06:57:06] <bl1v> should I try update and then full-upgrade?
1382[06:57:09] <rant> tehnull: upgrading to buster is a MANY STEP
process, none of which you seem to understand
1383[06:57:14] <themill> tehnull: can I suggest real commands and
real output?
1384[06:57:28] <rant> tehnull: upgrading a debian release is not
merely a single dist-upgrade command
1398[07:00:30] <bl1v> I never liked soup anyway :P
1399[07:00:30] <tehnull> obviously you don't remember
PC's automatically upgrading themselves to 10 lol
1400[07:00:49] <rant> the most rudimentary upgrade proceedure
involves changing your sources from the old release to the new,
updating the package cache, then doing a dist-upgrade
1401[07:01:10] <aljoni> I modified my sources, and added
"non-free" to the "deb ... buster" line. However
I am unable to install the package "nvidia-driver", I get
this output:
replaced-url
1402[07:01:18] <rant> however the release notes is more thorough,
trying to avoid many possible issues
1403[07:01:24] <bl1v> I thought this time around it's
supposed to be apt full-upgrade
1406[07:02:36] <tehnull> I'm just going to re-install I got
a feeling after reading this my upgrade results are going to be less
than satisfactory
1407[07:02:50] <m4ch1n3znc> so buster is now stable :3
1408[07:03:22] <rant> tehnull: well should you go that route and
plan to do so in the future.. consider making your /home seperate
1409[07:03:32] <tehnull> it is
1410[07:03:38] <tehnull> it's on it's own disk
1411[07:03:46] <tehnull> well own 2 disks
1412[07:04:06] <rant> tehnull: well thats good.. then you can
reinstall without reformatting and backup and global configs to the
/home just make sure you tell it to keep existing data on the /home
1413[07:04:21] <rant> s/and/any/
1414[07:04:27] <bl1v> ok, I removed libnfs8 with dpkg, removed
the repo lines from sources, apt-get update'd, and apt-get -f
install'd, and it seems fine
1415[07:04:31] <bl1v> got no errors this time
1416[07:04:40] <bl1v> I suppose I should try now full-upgrading?
1417[07:04:49] <magic_ninja_work> aljoni, post up your
/etc/apt/sources.list
1419[07:05:06] <rant> bl1v: thats likely because the libnfs8 was
the only one that didnt have an upgrade path, the rest just upgraded
to the normal official packages
1420[07:05:19] <rant> bl1v: and yes, you should probably be able
to proceed now
1422[07:05:49] <rant> tehnull: this user was having one such
issue the release notes would've avoided.. they had a lot of
dmo packages installed..
1423[07:06:30] <rant> if your system is pure debian and no odd
things going on, usually an upgrade is a simple fast painless 3 step
process of changing sources, updating cache, and upgrading
1434[07:09:15] <bl1v> I had them installed since wheezy was
around and upgraded to jessie no problems
1435[07:09:56] <rant> anyone with experience in the field knows
that real-world mass upgrade scenarios of windows are just as
thorough and often very convoluted.. cause one thing you need
remember when comparing a windows upgrade to a debian upgrade is
that windows is almost nothing compared to debian.. debian is
EVERYTHING.. on windows all the other stuff that isnt just the
kernel, shell, notepad, paint.. few crappy apps, is not
1436[07:10:02] <rant> part of the upgrade
1437[07:10:58] <tehnull> am I mistaken or is it just silly that I
should manually edit my apt internet sources if I'm upgrading
from previous stable to current stable?
1451[07:16:14] <aljoni> magic_ninja_work: Just realised you
wanted the output from both, half asleep right now, here is the
output of "apt update":
replaced-url
1452[07:16:41] <magic_ninja_work> no you read that right
1498[07:37:59] <finn0> I'm noticing a weird behavior of
chromium browser. My workspace automatically switch from workspace-1
to workspace-2 when I open chromium from workspace-1.
1499[07:38:14] <tfgbd_> Why not use Chrome?
1500[07:39:07] <finn0> Is chrome available on Debian official
repo? Probably not.
1501[07:39:10] <Sveta> chromium ≠ chrome
1502[07:39:34] <Sveta> chrome is available in an unofficial
repository, i think
1503[07:40:16] <finn0> Sveta: yep, maintian by Google chrome
team.
1504[07:40:54] <yutayu> finn0:use firefox
1505[07:41:46] <annadane> (why do you need repositories for
browsers if they're downloadable via the upstream site...?)
1509[07:43:17] <finn0> yutayu: Yeah, I also use Firefox with
heavily modified settings and some plugins. But, I would like to
have a browser without tweaks.
1510[07:43:35] <finn0> yutayu: And why not use chromium?
1511[07:44:22] <nkuttler> privacy
1512[07:44:24] <yutayu> firefox lover finn0
1513[07:44:25] <finn0> means I need a alternative browser for
some personle work.
1551[07:52:11] <Kon-> I've heard many people say this is a
bad time to stay on Testing. I looked through the Release
documentation but I'm having a hard time understanding why
stability of Testing goes down after a new Stable release. Does a
bunch of stuff just get dumped in from experimental suddenly?
1552[07:54:01] <nkuttler> Kon-: people have been holding back
packages because of the freeze. basically, yes
1553[07:55:43] <Kon-> I suppose that makes sense if people feel a
bit more free with the testing/migration cycle
1914[08:23:15] <Lady_Aleena> I ran "# dpkg -l | pager",
and I take it "ii" is good in front of package names,
right? Also, what does "rc" and "ri" mean?
Should I be concerned?
1923[08:26:04] <Lady_Aleena> So anything with an "r"
should be removed?
1924[08:26:07] <CrazyTux> please provide me a link to any website
where the detailed process of installation of Debian is given. I
need it for a complete newbie, a non technical end user.
1931[08:28:21] <CrazyTux> Lady_Aleena: would you recommend Debian
for a newbie?
1932[08:28:42] <CrazyTux> Lady_Aleena: how is mx linux as
compared to debian?
1933[08:28:46] <Lady_Aleena> Are you talking about a Linux
newbie?
1934[08:28:51] <CrazyTux> Lady_Aleena: yes.
1935[08:29:01] <themill> Lady_Aleena: 'r' means
"desired state is removed"; that doesn't tell you
whether it has already been removed or will be removed.
1936[08:29:04] <CrazyTux> Lady_Aleena: someone who has been using
Windows 10
1937[08:29:22] <Lady_Aleena> CrazyTux, how dependent on the GUI
is the person?
1938[08:29:41] <CrazyTux> Lady_Aleena: dependent on GUI only.
1939[08:29:52] <Lady_Aleena> CrazyTux, does this person have any
skills on a command line at all?
1954[08:32:15] <themill> (Except for the step when you are
finishing partitioning)
1955[08:32:22] <Lady_Aleena> CrazyTux, there is always command
line use with Linux, even with the most exhaustive desktop
environment chosen?
1956[08:32:48] <CrazyTux> Lady_Aleena: ok
1957[08:32:53] <rant> I've had my father on debian for years
now.. Jessie then Stretch, and he's barely touched the keyboard
much less the terminal
1958[08:33:01] <CrazyTux> rant: ok
1959[08:33:03] <Lady_Aleena> CrazyTux, the person would have to
at least learn how to use nano for some things.
1960[08:33:25] <CrazyTux> Lady_Aleena: what is nano?
1961[08:33:32] <rant> Lady_Aleena: not everyone makes their
websites in perl :P
1962[08:33:39] <Lady_Aleena> A command line text editor.
1963[08:33:47] <Lady_Aleena> ^ nano
1964[08:34:00] <Lady_Aleena> rant, no?! Really?!
1965[08:34:02] <rant> my father uses mostly firefox and microsoft
office, and has never heard of nano
1966[08:34:28] <rant> but then I had set it up for him, he didnt
have to set it up himself
1967[08:35:11] <Lady_Aleena> CrazyTux, also, someone who has used
Windows may not be comfortable using older versions of software.
Debian does not have bleeding edge software versions.
1968[08:35:33] <rant> CrazyTux: whats the scenario here? why are
you recommending Debian to them, are they open to it? what is their
use case like?
1969[08:35:35] <CrazyTux> Lady_Aleena: but Debian is the most
stable OS.
1970[08:36:04] <Wulf> The most stable OS would be the one which
never changed. Ever.
1971[08:36:08] <CrazyTux> rant: in fact I want to install Debian
on this computer for me also.
1972[08:36:16] <CrazyTux> others also use this computer.
1973[08:36:27] <espera_satelita> even Arch can be stable if you
can maintain it
1974[08:36:34] <rant> so you'd be sharing the machine.. like
a machine used among flatmates?
1975[08:36:39] <Lady_Aleena> CrazyTux, I agree, but some users (I
was, and to some extent stall am) are not happy with versions of
software that are years old.
1976[08:37:14] <CrazyTux> Lady_Aleena: ok
1977[08:37:16] <espera_satelita> and also. a computer will work
flawlessly if no one would turn it on
1978[08:37:29] <CrazyTux> Lady_Aleena: then which distro would
you recommend for such people?
1979[08:37:32] <winny> computers were a mistake. *drops mic*
1980[08:37:48] <rant> really the most common two things my father
has bugged me about was the printer acting up, and typically turning
the printer off and back on fixes that, and him not finding things
he saved from microsoft office he insists on saving to f'n
"My Documents" inside the wine bottle instead of to
whatever drive the homedir is mapped to.. so I long ago linked the
bottle's My Documents to his homedir.. and told him
1981[08:37:54] <rant> this ad nauseum..
1982[08:38:06] <CrazyTux> Lady_Aleena: how about mx linux?
1983[08:38:09] <Lady_Aleena> CrazyTux, I don't know. I went
from Windows XP to Debian Wheezy. I haven't tried any other
Linux distributions.
1984[08:38:13] <rant> Lady_Aleena: you're being a negative
nancy right now.. heh..
1985[08:38:17] <blackflow> winny: there's an irc command for
*drop mic* tho ::)
1986[08:38:28] <espera_satelita> AFAIK wine's Documents is
mapped to ~/Documents or what is it in your locale
1987[08:38:29] <winny> blackflow: this is true :)
1988[08:38:30] <rant> people who are used to something
aren't happy with DIFFERENT software they couldnt care less how
old or new it is
1989[08:39:10] <Lady_Aleena> rant, Debian can be VERY intense for
someone who HAS worked on a Windows command line. I thought I was
ready for Linux, and even today, I am still having issues.
1990[08:39:20] *** Quits: CrazyTux (~s@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1991[08:39:36] <rant> CrazyTux: we obviously recommend Debian or
we wouldnt be here.. however some of the lest pure folk here that
dont bleed in red debian swirls.. might say you have different
things for different reasons..
1992[08:39:54] <blackflow> I always likened distro (non-)hopping
to sex life. You can get married young and stay with that person
forever, never tasting another ... . Or you can distro-hop while
you're "young" in distros experience, and then settle
over the years :)
1993[08:39:55] <Lady_Aleena> So, for someone who hasn't even
SEEN a command line, Debian might not be the best Linux distribution
for them.
1999[08:40:45] <totesmuhgoats> Is anyone aware of a good GUI tool
for LVM management that is in the testing repository?
2000[08:40:49] <espera_satelita> one word for "I can't
install and configure debian" is "ubuntu"
2001[08:40:58] <Lady_Aleena> rant, simpler my FOOT, I still
don't know if all the programs that are listed with an
"rc" or "ri" in the dpkg list will cause
problems when I upgrade from Stretch to Buster.
2002[08:41:00] <espera_satelita> but debian is really easy to
install
2003[08:41:31] <espera_satelita> you can just select your
preferred desktop environment while installing and the OS should
boot to the UI
2005[08:41:39] <Kon-> CrazyTux: The easiest way to install Debian
is with the Live media where you can test the desktop and then
install it using the very simple GUI installer. For best results
you'll want the the build including non-free firmware. Here are
the ISOs for standard amd64 desktops. Choose the ISO for the desktop
environment you want
replaced-url
2006[08:41:54] <Lady_Aleena> espera_satelita, easy to install,
yes; easy to configure, NO!
2026[08:46:28] <Kon-> Not a fan of Cinnamon myself, but sure. MX
uses a heavily customized XFCE. It can be made to look nice but I
think Debian will ship the defaults which look a bit more Windows
XP-inspired
2027[08:46:37] <CrazyTux> and how difficult is it to install,
completely setup and use debian as compared to other distros like
Mint?
2028[08:46:59] <espera_satelita> mint is very-very-very
user-friendly
2029[08:47:02] <Kon-> If this is your goal, maybe you should
consider Linux Mint Debian Edition
2030[08:47:06] <Lady_Aleena> Do I need to download and burn all
three ISO's on
replaced-url
2031[08:47:14] <CrazyTux> ok
2032[08:47:37] <CrazyTux> btw, is mx linux a secure and stable
distro?
2033[08:47:39] <espera_satelita> debian is somewhere between
user-friendly ubuntu/mint/fedora and geeky distros like
gentoo/arch/LFS
2034[08:47:51] <espera_satelita> any distro is secure and stable
if you configure it
2035[08:48:00] <icarusfactor> Yeah Buster is released.
2036[08:48:07] <blackflow> Lady_Aleena: it's literally
explained in the fourth subtitle section of that page.
2045[08:49:31] <blackflow> also, is that windows xp installing in
the vm?
2046[08:49:31] <tfgbd_> Its not my primary wks
2047[08:49:46] <rant> CrazyTux: anyone would comment on that crap
here is an idiot if they said any less than use debian
2048[08:50:16] <Kon-> CrazyTux: For specifics on how MX
configures things out of the box and how it differs from Debian
XFCE, you'll need to ask MX users for support
2049[08:50:29] <rant> CrazyTux: all linux distros are the same in
most all regards except matters of priorties and communities.. and
debians priorities and comunity are far better than most
2050[08:50:30] <CrazyTux> ok
2051[08:50:30] <tfgbd_> Heres one of my others:
replaced-url
2052[08:50:36] * Lady_Aleena is downloading the ISO, will burn it, then
upgrade, she thinks.
2053[08:50:41] <tfgbd_> That ain't no VM
2054[08:50:46] <tehnull> ew
2055[08:50:49] <tfgbd_> Thats an emulator
2056[08:51:16] *** Quits: jmd (~user@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2057[08:51:48] <rant> CrazyTux: what made me a debian user almost
20 years ago were two documents
replaced-url
2070[08:58:46] <Kon-> That really is the main difference. Most
Debian solutions will probably work for MX Linux, but it gets
difficult to offer support with confidence because derivatives like
MX do often include their own repositories which can introduce
issues not applicable to Debian
2073[08:59:28] <rant> CrazyTux: debian has two large support
networks for real-time support 24/7 here and on OFTC mx linux has
none.. they have forums only last I checked.. we also have forums
and a wiki as well as excellent mailing lists and bug tracking
system
2074[09:00:02] <rant> more often than not when I ran into real
problems with debian I was able to speak directly to the developers
and get the problems resolved quickly
2075[09:00:06] <tfgbd_> I thought the same
2076[09:01:14] <Lady_Aleena> I want to apologize for being so
"needy" right now, but my relaxed upgrade weekend just
blew up in my face. So, I am a bit stressed by outside forces that
is making me question everything.
2084[09:03:21] <rant> and the installation processes are nearly
identical
2085[09:03:26] <tfgbd_> But didn't you just complain about
MX Linux's lack of IRC support?
2086[09:03:27] <CrazyTux> rant: ok
2087[09:03:29] <Kon-> That's a loaded question. I know Mint
has developed some of their applications but I think they are
probably all available from a Debian Cinnamon installation. I
don't think MX Linux does all that much except themeing Debian
Xfce.
2088[09:03:49] <CrazyTux> Kon-: ok
2089[09:04:41] <tfgbd_> Kon-: Are you named after that lion
2090[09:05:16] <Kon-> Honestly, if you go the Cinnamon route, I
recommend Linux Mint Debian Edition over pure Debian Cinnamon. The
Mint team maintains the Cinammon desktop on their own and you will
get better support there. I think Debian Cinnamon users are a very
small niche group.
2091[09:05:22] <Kon-> tfgbd_: No
2092[09:05:53] <rant> CrazyTux: yes choosing a good desktop would
be the first major choice.. I personally thing MATE is the most
mature code base that is most like traditional UI and that Cinnamon
and XFCE are attractive alternatives with a slightly more modern
feel.. where GNOME or KDE are pushing boundaries of modern design
and if that sort of thing isnt super appealing to youm its best you
steer clear cause most of us don't
2093[09:05:59] <rant> use those things and arent going to be able
to offer as much support on them.. we have however on the OFTC
network, specific debian channels for each of them
2094[09:06:12] <Kon-> And CrazyTux do remember that Linux Mint
and Linux Mint Debian Edition are different distros. If you try it,
make sure you download the correct one
2095[09:06:18] <jmcnaught> I don't think we should be
recommending other distros in #debian.
2096[09:06:30] <rant> CrazyTux: I could provide you with some
screenshots of what the /default/ of each of the 7 DE look like if
you like
2105[09:07:54] <CrazyTux> I want a stable and bugfree DE also.
2106[09:08:00] <Kon-> I recommend KDE myself. I think Plasma is a
very comfortable option for ex-Windows users and exposes the most
options through GUI
2107[09:08:03] <jmcnaught> I recommend GNOME
2108[09:08:07] <rant> CrazyTux: I personally like XFCE a lot, but
MATE is a more mature code base with less bugs to be honest
2109[09:08:15] <humpled> :\/
2110[09:08:17] <CrazyTux> ok
2111[09:08:26] <kts> Yeah, KDE.
2112[09:08:29] <rant> CrazyTux: cinnamon is what mint uses and
its got a nice clean look to it and is fairly similar to MATE
2113[09:08:41] <CrazyTux> ok
2114[09:08:45] <humpled> mate is horrid tho
2115[09:08:52] *** Quits: bla (~bla@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2116[09:08:58] <magic_ninja_work> tfgbd_, bring back XP!
2117[09:09:02] <CrazyTux> how much RAM and CPU does KDE use?
2118[09:09:07] <CrazyTux> on Debian.
2119[09:09:09] <rant> only if as I said earlier that you are
particularly interested in modern ui designs
2120[09:09:12] <rant> !de usage
2121[09:09:12] <dpkg> de usage is probably The HDD/RAM usages of
the 7 Stretch DE on amd64 VirtualBoxes with 1GB RAM / 32GB HDD are
as follows as reported with only their terminals running df -Th and
free -h: GNOME 4.2G 726M, KDE 4.1G 604M, Cinnamon 3.7G 482M, MATE
3.1G 215M, LXQt 3.1G 184M, LXDE 3.0G 180M, XFCE 2.9G 226M
2122[09:09:14] <magic_ninja_work> CrazyTux, here
2123[09:09:27] <magic_ninja_work> Like 2.5-3 GB ram
2124[09:09:30] <magic_ninja_work> CPU next to none/
2125[09:09:45] <rant> fwiw, I made that factoid testing all those
on virutalbox
2126[09:09:47] <magic_ninja_work> I like KDE, a lot.
2138[09:11:21] <rant> CrazyTux: by default however many redundant
menu entries will be in the menus as each DE has its own text
editor, calculator, filemanager, etc..
2139[09:11:21] <CrazyTux> suppose I want to isntall and run
Windows in Virtual Box, which DE would you recommend?
2140[09:11:27] <magic_ninja_work> with a couple basic apps and a
web browser you can expect to see 2-3GB usage.
2141[09:11:30] <tfgbd_> I don't get a login screen because I
need CHroots
2142[09:11:30] <Kon-> DE doesn't matter for virtualbox
2143[09:11:47] <CrazyTux> Kon-: DE for the Host OS.
2144[09:11:56] <CrazyTux> with Debian as the Host OS.
2145[09:12:02] <rant> CrazyTux: the DE is irrelevant for a
windows guest.. and often using crossover or wine is better than a
guest OS for many things
2146[09:12:03] <Kon-> Whatever suits your taste. There's no
performance difference
2147[09:12:17] <tfgbd_> Not for development.
2148[09:12:18] <CrazyTux> ok
2149[09:12:31] <tfgbd_> Wine doesn't have network drivers
for Virtual PC.
2150[09:12:46] <CrazyTux> my computer has only 4 GBs of RAM. Runs
on Intel Core i3 cpu.
2151[09:13:11] <rant> tfgbd_: I have used crossover for playing
GTA San Andreas Multiplayer online
2152[09:13:12] <Kon-> On 4GB I might avoid GNOME
2153[09:13:15] <magic_ninja_work> CrazyTux, I would stay away
from Gnome.
2154[09:13:25] <magic_ninja_work> Do you have an SSD ?
2155[09:13:33] <rant> and I use it also for a windows browser to
use xfinity stream
2157[09:13:40] <CrazyTux> magic_ninja_work: no. its HDD.
2158[09:14:00] <rant> CrazyTux: which generation i3?
2159[09:14:05] <magic_ninja_work> I would hit up some used parts
on ebay if you can spare.
2160[09:14:31] <Kon-> A hardware upgrade is not required to have
a good experience on Debian. Certainly better than Windows
2161[09:14:33] <CrazyTux> rant: I think 5th gen
2162[09:14:41] <magic_ninja_work> If around $150 isn't in
the budget, than you can make what you have work. LxQt is NICE.
2163[09:14:41] <CrazyTux> rant: 2.0 Ghz
2164[09:15:10] <rant> CrazyTux: yeah, thats plenty for a good
desktop experience.. but if you wanna run a windows guest with 1GB
or more ram dedicated to it you may want to try get additional ram
for better performance
2165[09:15:22] <magic_ninja_work> ^^
2166[09:15:32] <CrazyTux> ok
2167[09:15:35] <Kon-> Oh yeah, running VMs on 4GB isn't
going to be super great
2168[09:15:36] <tfgbd_> Windows never needs a hardware upgrade.
2169[09:15:36] <magic_ninja_work> And with an older machine like
you probably have, you can likely get used ram for cheap on ebay.
2170[09:15:49] <CrazyTux> can we install all the packages in
Windows in VBox?
2171[09:15:52] <tfgbd_> 4GB isn't older anymore.
2172[09:16:02] <tfgbd_> Some 2016 laptops come with 1GB
2173[09:16:04] <magic_ninja_work> SSD's are now super-cheap
too. I just got a 1 TB SSD for like 120, so you could upgrade for
sub-100
2174[09:16:06] <CrazyTux> the same way we can install on Windows
when installed on the hdd?
2175[09:16:12] <tfgbd_> Perfect for Devian, right
2176[09:16:30] <rant> CrazyTux: yes, windows isnt aware its not
running on native hardware
2177[09:16:31] <tfgbd_> I got a 3TB HDD for $30 or so.
2181[09:16:57] <rant> CrazyTux: personally I like VirtualBox
because its dead simple to use and I also like its seamless mode and
ability to easily save and resume state
2182[09:17:04] <CrazyTux> I will consider this option of
upgrading the RAM then.
2183[09:17:13] <Kon-> CrazyTux: What is your goal in running a
Windows VM? If the answer is not "development work" then
maybe there's a better solution
2184[09:17:34] <magic_ninja_work> CrazyTux, can we get a machine
manufacturer and model / service tag?
2185[09:17:38] <rant> CrazyTux: yes with your CPU you can
probably max out at 16GB and merely doubling to 8GB would be enough
to comfortably run a couple guests
2186[09:17:41] <tfgbd_> What is native hardware
2187[09:17:48] <CrazyTux> Kon-: I want to use some packages on
Windows. Those can't be installed on Linux easily.
2188[09:18:00] *** Quits: mniip (mniip@replaced-ip) (Quit: This page is intentionally left blank.)
2189[09:18:03] <CrazyTux> magic_ninja_work: how?
2190[09:18:22] <tfgbd_> packages on Windows?
2191[09:18:27] <tfgbd_> Windows calls them installers
2192[09:18:28] <magic_ninja_work> just who made your computer and
what model it is. Should be printed somewhere unless it is a franken
computer
2193[09:18:44] <CrazyTux> I want to install SAP IDES on Windows.
2194[09:18:44] <tfgbd_> Or are you running Debian ON TOP OF
Windows as a process?
2195[09:18:57] <magic_ninja_work> CrazyTux, it is a perfectly
legitimate work flow. I use a windows 10 VM for my design work.
2196[09:19:02] <Kon-> CrazyTux: I highly recommend trying your
Windows applications in Wine. I think quite a few IDEs run well in
Wine.
2228[09:26:19] <magic_ninja_work> <CrazyTux> I will
consider this option of upgrading the RAM then.
2229[09:26:25] <magic_ninja_work> based on your advice rant
2230[09:26:29] <rant> magic_ninja_work: I'm not tryin to be
an ass here, you just seem to be harping on an issue that isnt
really important.
2231[09:26:42] <rant> magic_ninja_work: they said they'd
consider it.. they didnt ask for help on the matter :P
2232[09:26:58] <magic_ninja_work> And they have no clue on what
paricular ram they need.
2233[09:27:02] <rant> this is a debian support channel, they
havent yet installed debian or asked about buying ram.. just sayin
2234[09:27:29] <magic_ninja_work> Yet they are making a
consideration of changing over, and have specified that they will
need a windows VM in the process.
2239[09:27:48] <rant> if they asked about ram, I can tell based
on the CPU which ram they need, only thing is how many slots they
have.. and if they can't figure that out by peekin inside they
shouldnt be upgrading the ram in the first place
2245[09:28:50] <rant> CrazyTux: the DE would have no effect on
the guest
2246[09:28:53] <magic_ninja_work> I agree with rant on that one.
2247[09:29:01] <CrazyTux> rant: what about the RAM usage?
2248[09:29:06] <magic_ninja_work> heh
2249[09:29:25] <rant> CrazyTux: you want to do some higher end
testing in windows, so you dont want to try doing this with only 4gb
ram probably regardless
2250[09:29:29] <CrazyTux> wouldn't DEs like Gnome and KDE
use more RAM and CPU?
2251[09:29:42] <magic_ninja_work> yes, they do
2252[09:29:47] <rant> CrazyTux: 4gb ram is a fair minimum for a
GOOD quality desktop experience on debian.. alone.. without a
guest..
2255[09:30:01] <rant> leaving plenty of room for extra tabs in a
browser, disk caching, oepning a lot of files.. etc
2256[09:30:25] <CrazyTux> how about dual booting Windows with
Debian?
2257[09:30:26] <rant> windows similiarly.. esp win10 doing
enterprise type test scenarios will want that much itself
2258[09:30:34] <rant> so you want 8gb minimum I'd say
2259[09:30:43] <rant> so you can give windows 4gb of its own
while the VM is running
2260[09:30:49] <Kon-> It's one thing if you were doing these
same workloads natively, but just running the VM will reduce your
RAM set aside for work by at least half
2261[09:31:03] <magic_ninja_work> Ohhhh, but do they need a 4GB
chip or an 8GB chip ?? :)
2262[09:31:10] <tfgbd_> I ran debian and more Windows with 128mb
on my server and was pretty satisfied.
2263[09:31:14] <rant> yes.. I dont understand what the hell this
SAP IDES is but it sounds complicated
2264[09:31:18] <tfgbd_> So I dunno what this 5GB meme is.
2278[09:32:10] <winny> all i know is 1 GiB is a bit tight for
compiling linking a linux kernel with debug symbols, but honestly
you can do a lot on the desktop with 1GiB if you don't install
heavyweight software choices :)
2279[09:32:16] <tfgbd_> Because that's all they
"sell" for free
2280[09:32:30] <tfgbd_> I compiled VMware too.
2281[09:32:35] <rant> Firefox with a single tab is gonna be using
like 512MB ram all to itself.. with an <html></html>
page loaded
2308[09:34:38] <tfgbd_> Does that actually work now?
2309[09:34:39] <BazookaTooth> make dillo great again
2310[09:34:56] <winny> links -g is actually usable on many sites
2311[09:34:56] <rant> CrazyTux: can you peek inside and see how
many ram slots you have and how many are occupied/free?
2312[09:35:10] <Kon-> CrazyTux: That was a question from me to
you. I was asking if you are currently doing SAP IDES work on this
computer?
2313[09:35:35] <CrazyTux> Kon-: no. I am yet to get that software
and install it.
2314[09:35:39] <winny> CrazyTux: u can check the output of
dmidecode, hwinfo, lshw for memory slot configuration too (ymmv in
understanding the results though)
2315[09:35:45] <CrazyTux> rant: how?
2316[09:36:10] <pragomer> hi. I am actually using
"devilspie2" to organize specific programs to certain
workspaces. this works with two exceptioins: xfce4-terminal and
hexchat. I seems that I dont know their exact "Program
Name".. does anybody has an advice for me?
2317[09:36:25] <rant> CrazyTux: this is my point.. he was asking
about your model and crap to advise on buying ram.. and thats
irrelevant if you dont even know enough to look inside.. then you
dont know enough to install more ram
2318[09:36:32] <rant> you'd have to consult a technician
regardless
2326[09:38:18] <Kon-> CrazyTux: do you know which version of IDES
you have to use?
2327[09:38:23] <rant> but if you dont know enough to open the
case and look and see where the ram is and how many slots you have,
then you cant install it, therefore you can't buy it.. someone
has to do it for you
2328[09:38:24] <winny> it's funny how many mobos are moody
about specific ram products too, e.g. i've had boards that
won't run the ram at its max speeds because the mobo firmware
didn't know about that product
2329[09:38:24] <tfgbd_> I didn't think of it for the
screenshot.
2330[09:38:32] <tfgbd_> It's getting heavy.
2331[09:38:47] <rant> winny: yeah its more common in laptops..
for power/heat reasons
2332[09:39:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1505
2333[09:39:06] <magic_ninja_work> Oh BS. You can watch a youtube
video on how to do a ram upgrade.
2334[09:39:20] <grumble> wooohoo
2335[09:39:25] <CrazyTux> Kon-: may be this one.
SAP_ECC_v6.0_SR3_IDES_
2336[09:39:25] <rant> University of YT :D
2337[09:39:26] <magic_ninja_work> Anyway, have fun.
2339[09:39:46] <Putti> Question regarding upgrading to Buster
from Stretch: Are the iptables rules converted automatically to
nftables syntax and upgraded so that no unwanted packets get
through? I just have a simple deny all rule + allow established.
2340[09:39:51] <grumble> 'Debian 10 "buster"
released' is an amazing email to see after waking up \o/
2341[09:40:08] <stefanos82> greetings everyone. Is everything
alright with server syncing? Here's what I get for my testing
system "E: Repository 'replaced-url
2342[09:40:09] <Putti> grumble, yup :)
2343[09:40:16] <tfgbd_> What about on Snapdragon 835
2344[09:40:19] <stefanos82> I guess it must be a hiccup
2345[09:40:25] <elwisp> grumble: agreed
2346[09:40:27] *** Quits: bla (~bla@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2347[09:40:41] <rant> stefanos82: no, its a change in apt that is
trying to protect you from strange behavior
2348[09:40:44] <grumble> i will boldly go where probably plenty
of people have gone in the past 6 hours and attempt to update my irc
box
2349[09:40:51] <rant> !apt suite changed
2350[09:40:51] <dpkg> If you were already using Debian 10
"Buster" prior to it being released as stable, apt
complain about changes to the release information on the mirror.
apt(8) will prompt you to accept changes; apt-get(8) will need
--allow-releaseinfo-change
2351[09:41:06] <grumble> if i don't make it back here, it
was nice knowing you
2352[09:41:06] <rant> stefanos82: this apprently applies to you
as well ^^
2353[09:41:10] <stefanos82> rant: I have tried the
--allow-releaseinfo-change and did not change anything
2354[09:41:14] <stefanos82> the message remains the same
2364[09:42:30] <pragomer> so, problem already solved ;-)
2365[09:42:52] <rant> stefanos82: regardless you're in the
wrong channel for your issue, you should be in #debian-next on OFTC
( irc.debian.org or irc.oftc.net )
2366[09:43:04] <stefanos82> rant: lsb_release -a still displays
buster instead of bullseye
2367[09:43:06] <humpled> pragomer: cool
2368[09:43:11] <magic_ninja_work> CrazyTux, most likely, yea.
Seems that entire generation did.
2422[10:08:14] <rant> magic_ninja_work: I haven't gotten to
work on it yet, cause I'm not a very good programmer and have
no experience working on stuff other people will use.. but I've
identified some issues and outlined an idea for a series of realted
projects I think will be necessary for such adjustment to our
support apperatus in the future
2479[10:21:08] <BlackBishop> I boot off the iso, select the
language, the location, keyboard, detects the network, configures
it, I configure the hostname, I choose the mirror
(ftp.us.debian.org), skip the proxy, it's downloading stuff off
the mirror
2482[10:21:30] <BlackBishop> No kernel modules were found. This
probably is due to mismatch between the kernel used by this version
of the installer and the kernel version available in the archive.
2484[10:21:57] <BlackBishop> If you're installing from a
mirror, you can work around this problem by choosing to install a
different version of Debian. The install will probably fail to work
if you continue without kernel modules.
2549[10:47:58] <gour> i plan new install (possibly switching to
sid) and consider whether to use separate /home and/or to reduce /
30G --> 25G to save some space
2550[10:48:05] <gour> rindolf: hiya
2551[10:48:38] <rindolf> gour: a separate /home is a good idea
2552[10:49:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1516
2553[10:49:42] <gour> rindolf: ok. i tried yesterday with lvm
install, but it looks as grub requires separate /boot...otherwise
i'm gertting 'OS not found' on my netbook
2554[10:49:46] <annadane> i've sometimes wondered whether
it's generally a good idea, but for security reasons, but
off-topic
2555[10:50:26] <rant> yes, a seperate home is great if you arent
yet at the point of stability in your understanding/use because it
allows you to more easily reinstall without worrying about your data
2556[10:51:12] <annadane> though i suppose most stuff gets dumped
in home regardless
2557[10:51:15] <gour> hmm...now i did another non-lvm install and
it seems the problem is not due to root under lvm, but due to
bios/gpt combo...i used to have such problem in the past...(old
lenovo e125 netbook)
2558[10:51:24] <rant> the machine I recently sold my cousin I had
installed buster on a 32gb m.2 ssd and he then bought a 1tb sata hdd
to go in there and set that as his /home which I think is a nice way
to do things..
2559[10:51:47] <gour> so, either i should do simple bios/mbr or
gpt/uefi install
2560[10:52:27] <gour> i bet you'd recommend uefi one?
2581[10:58:25] <rant> but then when I was very young.. and they
first told me about the 1s, 10s, 100s, 1000s, place in base 10 then
said 10,000s, and 100,000s I was quite confused at first
2598[11:03:32] <maxcell_> i getting this: E: The repository
'replaced-url
2599[11:04:03] <maxcell_> what should i use instead of testing?
2600[11:04:51] <jan6> ...the stable version?
2601[11:05:02] <rant> maxcell_: irc.oftc.net and #debian-next or
buster, and track into the new stable release
2602[11:05:35] <rant> in which case you may need to also observe
2603[11:05:40] <rant> !apt suite changed
2604[11:05:40] <dpkg> If you were already using Debian 10
"Buster" prior to it being released as stable, or you use
'testing' in your sources.list, apt complain about changes
to the release information on the mirror. apt(8) will prompt you to
accept changes; apt-get(8) will need --allow-releaseinfo-change
2605[11:05:45] <maxcell_> somebody can tell me whats the codename
of the testing right now?
2626[11:09:25] <blackflow> besides, Devuan is not respecting init
freedom. I can't install systemd.
2627[11:09:32] <rant> blackflow: b b b b..
2628[11:09:36] <rant> blackflow: haha.. good point
2629[11:09:36] <jelly> !slap blackflow
2630[11:09:38] * dpkg strikes a resounding *THWAP* across
blackflow's face
2631[11:09:40] *** Quits: SpaceTraveller (~SpaceTrav@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2632[11:09:45] * Butt3rfly chuckles
2633[11:09:45] <maxcell_> why not debian-next at freenode?
2634[11:09:46] <blackflow> dpkg: behave.
2635[11:09:46] <dpkg> blackflow: i haven't a clue
2636[11:10:01] <blackflow> !botsnack
2637[11:10:01] <dpkg> :), blackflow
2638[11:10:09] <rant> maxcell_: because all debian specific
channels are on OFTC now, its the official network
2639[11:10:29] <annadane> consider it punishment for asking
debian testing questions in freenode
2640[11:10:31] <rant> maxcell_: here we only have the legacy
#debian from when this was the official debian irc network
2641[11:10:35] <jelly> maxcell_, "testing" typically
does not have a security repo, and also using names whose contents
change under your feet like "stable" or
"testing" for repos can bite you in the arse
2687[11:17:43] <blackflow> pretty sure if there's an OOO
patch for stable, it'll eventually get synced in through
unstable or else you have split brain problem in debian and a
maintenance nightmare
2688[11:17:43] <annadane> but it doesn't have an official
security repository, so i mean
2691[11:18:13] <jelly> maxcell_, "always" would have
been 2-3 months tops, since it's _created_ only in the final
run of a release cycle, and even then it's mostly empty
2692[11:18:35] <blackflow> maxcell_: jelly is right tho'
about that part.
2693[11:18:52] <blackflow> my comment was only about the flow of
updates for packages.
2694[11:18:57] <maxcell_> i really doesn't understand a
single thing you guiys are saying
2695[11:19:01] *** Quits: catsup (d@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2701[11:19:49] <jelly> blackflow, security fixes for stable work
are ALWAYS backported separately and uploaded as distinct
source+binaries. Packages from unstable NEVER drop directly to
stable.
2702[11:20:33] *** Quits: catsup (~d@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2703[11:20:46] <maxcell_> i have a problem with an
"possible" stable debian machine
2704[11:20:56] <jelly> even if the very same upstream version is
a fix, say, for firefox-esr, uploads to unstable and stable are
separate builds and separate debian versions
2719[11:21:40] <maxcell_> i only changed it to testing because i
needed to install an app called "stremio" (it needed some
dependencies that weren't on buster) that was the only thing it
installs, so if i come back to buster i will be pretty much OK.
2720[11:21:48] <blackflow> jelly: due to the nature of
backporting patches, it's coming from the future version of the
package that will end up in unstable and testing anyway, most
likely.
2752[11:27:16] <maxcell_> i think i remember, a time i downloaded
an testing cd from debian.org
2753[11:27:23] <maxcell_> it uses stable security repo
2754[11:27:26] <maxcell_> i'm almost sure
2755[11:27:33] <jelly> that's unlikely
2756[11:27:35] <maxcell_> better then nothing i gess
2757[11:27:36] <grumble> maxcell_: security fixes for
"testing" are usually just put in the normal testing
repos. you don't need a separate security repo (and the stable
security repo won't help you if you add it)
2759[11:28:08] <jelly> grumble, there are no intentional security
fixes for testing. It's just normal flow of packages.
2760[11:28:10] <grumble> however, thats done on a best-effort
basis and you have no guarantee you'll get security fixes at
any given time on testin
2761[11:28:12] <blackflow> okay, here's one example.
CVE-2018-5740 fixed in buster, and jessie even, but not in stretch.
(let's ignore the fact that buster is _now_ stable, this CVE is
from last year)
2762[11:28:29] <maxcell_> ok
2763[11:28:49] <maxcell_> that's a little sad
2764[11:28:55] <maxcell_> but
2765[11:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1522
2766[11:29:14] <annadane> not as sad as the ending to forrest
gump
2767[11:29:15] <maxcell_> they said i can't use backports on
stable so i gess that's the only way
2768[11:29:21] <jelly> blackflow, and there's a note at the
bottom explaining it
2769[11:29:24] <annadane> what? yes, you can
2770[11:29:30] <jelly> !cve lookup CVE-2018-5740
2771[11:29:30] <dpkg> Information about the security advisory
CVE-2018-5740 may be found at
replaced-url
2772[11:29:37] <maxcell_> for now
2773[11:29:39] <annadane> for what? backports? that's the
point of backports
2774[11:29:44] <annadane> what do you actually need?
2780[11:30:43] <annadane> You have searched for packages that
names contain stremio in all suites, all sections, and all
architectures. Sorry, your search gave no results
2798[11:34:52] <annadane> in other news i abandoned my
dist-upgrade because i ran into a bunch of dependency conflicts and
didn't feel like doing dist-upgrade it one go before upgrade so
hurrah, fresh install it is
2799[11:35:00] <annadane> in one go*
2800[11:35:22] *** Quits: BenNZ (~Ben__@replaced-ip) (Quit: Everytime I think IQ's must have dropped recently, I
remember that this is the internet)
2802[11:36:07] <jelly> if you mean a release upgrade, saying that
is more clear than calling it the same way as an apt-get command
which is NOT used for (just) release upgrades
2817[11:39:32] <jelly> maxcell_, if you installed any packages,
they will be bigger versions than what's in stable forever, and
you'll never get security fixes
2842[11:47:18] <annadane> also, "come back to
stable"... i guess buster did just release so the fact
'testing' is in the sources.list may not be too bad but...
2843[11:47:46] <tfgbd_> does dist upgrade (or whatever) still
work?
2844[11:47:59] <espera_satelita> yes
2845[11:48:05] <annadane> in general? yes
2846[11:48:16] <tfgbd_> what debian do I get with that
2847[11:48:28] <espera_satelita> but read carefully what is it
going to install and/or uninstall
2849[11:48:58] <annadane> i mean, what does your sources.list
say, are you still on stretch wanting to update to buster?
2850[11:49:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1531
2851[11:49:09] <maxcell_> jelly, i can uninstall just the
packages i install from testing, i have it right here
2852[11:50:08] <tfgbd_> How do I check my debian version from
debian?
2853[11:50:13] <maxcell_> annadane, no i was on buster and i
needed some deps like this: libqt5test5 libqt5webengine-data and
some more. To install stremio (downloaded from website)
2854[11:50:15] <jelly> !debian suite
2855[11:50:16] <dpkg> cat /etc/debian_version (or lsb_release
-sc). Or check /etc/apt/sources.list. If unsure about the
distribution, $ cat /etc/{*version*,*release*,*issue*} should grab
almost all distributions.
2856[11:50:21] <jelly> tfgbd_, ^
2857[11:50:23] <kale> tfgbd_: lsb_release -a
2858[11:50:26] <espera_satelita> are you on buster no?
2859[11:50:29] <espera_satelita> now
2860[11:50:41] <espera_satelita> do sudo apt-get upgrade
2861[11:50:47] <maxcell_> i'm on buster but with those deps
installed.
2862[11:50:53] <maxcell_> nothing changes
2863[11:50:56] <jelly> maxcell_, look at dpkg and apt logs to see
all the dependencies it pulled
2864[11:50:56] <espera_satelita> those deps from testing
2880[11:51:55] <dpkg> To get a list of packages you have
installed now, that are not available from any repository in your
sources.list: aptitude search
'?narrow(?not(?archive("^[^n][^o].*$")),?version(CURRENT))'
2881[11:52:08] <espera_satelita> so just replace stretch by
buster and do apt update; apt-get upgrade; apt-get dist-upgrade
2882[11:52:12] <maxcell_> jelly, that were the deps
2883[11:52:22] <espera_satelita> and read carefully everything it
shows on the screen
2884[11:52:31] <maxcell_> espera_satelita, yes from testing
replaced-url
2885[11:52:34] <tfgbd_> Isn't there anything more permenant
that can preserve the version in case someone edits sources.list
like you tell people to?
2886[11:52:45] <annadane> apt-mark hold
2887[11:53:05] <espera_satelita> remove stremio, upgrade your OS
and install stremio again
2888[11:53:21] <jelly> maxcell_, you HAVE TO check the logs to
see if that install also _upgraded_ some existing packages in
addition to installing extra ones.
2889[11:53:22] <maxcell_> espera_satelita, if i tried, it will
say it doesn't have those deps to install
2890[11:53:38] <maxcell_> jelly, how can i do that?
2951[12:05:07] <rant> did you type what I said or did you put
sudo in front of it?
2952[12:05:23] <tete_> i do not allow root login, so i login as
user with ssh and then i do a "su" - i would have assumed
that it does some kind of "source /root/.bashrc" or
"source /etc/bash.bash_rc" after that su automaticaly
2953[12:05:34] <tete_> i did what you wrote
2954[12:05:42] <tete_> i am root now at that machine
2955[12:06:38] <humpled> how can you do su if you don't have
root logins?
2963[12:07:37] <humpled> i use $ sudo -i , is that bad?
2964[12:07:40] <tete_> that worked
2965[12:07:44] <tete_> thanks
2966[12:07:53] <tete_> just curious because in debian 9 it was
working with "su" only
2967[12:08:10] <rant> shouldnt have afaik
2968[12:08:19] <rant> sudo su maybe
2969[12:08:24] <rant> cause then sudo handles the env
2970[12:08:42] <rant> but su only changes the env if its told to
make it a login shell
2971[12:08:46] <kale> tete_: sudo is an option to run a single
command as root, and also controlling which commands are allowed. if
you intend to run more than one command. "su -" is IMHO
preferred.
2972[12:09:08] <maxcell_> jelly, i've separeted everything
that was installed during the apt install stremio and put it on a
text file
2973[12:09:16] <maxcell_> now just blows everything and i'm
ok?
2974[12:10:25] <tete_> kale, thanks, i do administration stuff
now for a couple of hours and dont want to sudo all the time, thats
the reason why i use "su"
2975[12:10:45] <kale> tete_: the "-" is important, use
"su -"
2978[12:12:21] <kale> tete_: i believe ubuntu is responsible for
all the "sudo make me a sandwich" stuff. i personally
think its abuse. "sudo, sudoedit — execute a command as
another user", was its original purpose.
2979[12:12:31] <maxcell_> everything was removed succesfully
2987[12:14:16] <kale> at0m: but thats on purpose. if you just run
"su", then you get the environment of the calling user.
which could trick the root user to call the wrong "ls"
command. So you need to add "-" to make sure you get the
right environment. Thats by design.
2988[12:14:16] <humpled> sudo -i gets the path right
2989[12:14:46] <at0m> kale: right. $PATH would be one of the
things affected.
2990[12:15:42] <at0m> !su
2991[12:15:42] <dpkg> su is, like, switch/set user. It is used to
change User ID's and/or gain super user access.
2997[12:18:12] <maxcell_> hey, when i try to install stremio now
it actually find the dependencies needed, that means i just seem to
have downgraded but i didn't?
3035[12:34:40] <NetTerminalGene> guys, if you upgrade, it uses
X11. you should chose wayland manually
3036[12:35:09] <wxie> Hi, just updated from stretch to buster.
Facing one problem: fcitx missing my pinyin input which was ok in
stretch. Could anyone help?
3037[12:35:10] <at0m> kale: update of the dpkg bot factoid
3041[12:35:51] *** Quits: CyberX (~CyberX@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3042[12:36:39] <at0m> NetTerminalGene: not for me, not now. as
someone here lately said, when another asked "what features am
i going to loose with wayland": "the question is more,
which are you going to keep"
3078[12:49:14] <NetTerminalGene> guys, i didn't understand
what it says
replaced-url
3079[12:49:48] <NetTerminalGene> "When installing Debian
from live media using the Calamares installer (Section 2.2.13,
“News from Debian Live team”) and selecting the full
disk encryption feature, the disk's unlock key is stored in the
initramfs which is world readable. This allows users with local
filesystem access to read the private key and gain access to the
filesystem again in the future. "
3114[13:02:19] <Kon-> I believe it will be fixed eventually. Last
I heard Calamares was not very popular with Debian contributors and
it is being maintained by people who run Debian derivative distros
(like Netrunner)
3122[13:09:26] <Brigo> Hi, my hdmi monitor stopped working, i was
checking for problems and i couldn't find anything, the montior
appears in xrandr as disconnected. Any hints, please?
3123[13:09:46] *** Joins: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
3124[13:10:36] <tarzeau> Brigo: reboot monitor? check cables are
in properly on both sides?
3143[13:14:28] <Haxxa> I just upgraded docker on debian 10 from
docker-engine and I no longer have my contaibers showing up but
/var/lib/docker is populated?
3144[13:14:35] <Haxxa> *contaibers
3145[13:14:38] <Haxxa> *containers
3146[13:14:53] <Haxxa> any ideas on how to import volumes back
into docker?
3151[13:17:26] <metrix> I get the followng message from
systemd-logind-service over and over when I ssh into my new Buster
box: "Failed to start login service" where do I start
troubleshooting this?
3158[13:20:27] <scott_tams> I have a Debian testing system which
I use occasionally, which until this morning had "buster"
in the sources.list file. When I saw that, I thought
"that's not right, buster's about to become stable,
and I want to track testing!"
3159[13:20:38] <Brigo> metrix, i would check journalctl for more
info
3160[13:20:50] <scott_tams> So I changed my sources.list to look
like this
replaced-url
3161[13:20:55] *** Quits: SpeedyG (~SpeedyG@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3162[13:21:20] <scott_tams> and now I get a 404 for the Release
file for the debian-security line
3163[13:22:00] <NetTerminalGene> scott_tams, did it ask you yes
or no question after apt update?
3164[13:22:48] <scott_tams> oh, yes, that was what triggered this
3165[13:22:53] <scott_tams> I cancelled that process
3166[13:22:56] <metrix> Brigo: Thank you for the quick reply.
journalctl and journalctl -x -e return "no journals found"
3167[13:23:41] <scott_tams> but not before hitting "no"
on the security suite. Ok, I can see where I messed it up
3171[13:25:29] <Brigo> metrix, as root? are you using systemd?
3172[13:26:25] <scott_tams> ah, I just lost my scrollback
history! D: When it asked if I wanted to accept the changes of
"buster" moving from "testing" to
"stable" on the "debian-security" channel. When
it asked me the NEXT question, I hit Ctrl+C to just cancel the
update. So did me selecting "No" there potentially break
my configuration for "testing"? oh I guess maybe not
3174[13:26:40] <metrix> Brigo: yes as root, and yes I am using
systemd
3175[13:27:06] <tete_> assuming the process aborted of upgrading
with an error because my disk ran out of space, can i simply
continue with apt-get dist-upgrade or do i have to take some special
precautions?
3194[13:31:27] <metrix> Brigo: this is my testing box, that I
update before production,, I just ran a standard upgrade, nothing
special..
3195[13:32:02] <metrix> Brigo: going to restore from backup and
try the upgrade again... maybe I made a mistake in the upgrade
process
3196[13:32:44] <Brigo> metrix, i don't know what is going
on. Have you any other log facility like syslog or rsyslog
installed? you can check for their files in /var/log
3199[13:34:15] <NetTerminalGene> scott_tams, ok but, you said no.
so it should work
3200[13:34:33] <Mathisen> Hello, anyone mind helping me with a
php issue after buster upgrade from stretch ? i need php7-3-curl
installed but im getting this error after upgrade >
replaced-url
3201[13:35:05] <scott_tams> If I change sources.list to buster it
works
replaced-url
3227[13:48:09] <scott_tams> like all I'm doing is
:%s/buster/testing/g in sources.list, then running apt update. In
all my prior experience on debian-like systems, that has worked,
unless there was a remote repository issue. Is there a way I can get
`apt` to show more details about the network requests as it's
making them?
3230[13:48:46] <Rust3dCor3> Hi. Im on debian 9.9, should I update
via apt to buster? Is i backup my sources.list can I just swap it
after foobar install and do apt-get install --reinstall *packages*?
3231[13:49:03] *** Quits: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: conta)
3234[13:50:30] <scott_tams> Rust3dCor3, make sure you make a
backup first, but yes, usually, one can just substitute the version
names in the sources.list file, then run apt update and apt-get
dist-upgrade
3235[13:51:18] <Rust3dCor3> scott_tams by backup you mean backup
of sources.list file?
3236[13:51:27] <scott_tams> No I mean a full system backup
3237[13:51:31] <rocketmagnet> i have a strange problem -
i've installed handbreak and now my fonts are gone, when i try
fc-cache -fv i get many errors telling me: "invalid cache file
(/home/user/.cache/fontconfig)
3239[13:51:53] <Rust3dCor3> scott_tams never did such thing.
always i made a clean install. any command to do so?
3240[13:52:32] <Rust3dCor3> scott_tams will borg be ok for it?
3241[13:52:52] <scott_tams> I mean, yes, a clean install is
preferred. If you can back up all your data (or keep it on a
separate disk) and just nuke the original system with a new image,
that is much more likely to go smoothly
3262[13:59:39] <Mathisen> Rust3dCor3 you better of just backup
upp personal/needed data then doing a fresh install if you gonna
upgrade to buster, and if you looking for somrthing like nandroid
variation for debian read upp on Aptik.
3265[14:00:41] <Mathisen> Rust3dCor3 specaly!! if you been using
other repos then the standarnd debian ones in you sources.list. just
look @ me i just upgraded from stretch to buster and i have 4
packages total that went crazy on me just for using 1 3..rd party
repo.
3346[14:38:50] <epony> the CPU information is typically found
during system start up screens, in BIOS setup, with kernel
diagnostic output or with a CPU ID utility (or
3347[14:38:57] <tfgbd_> file explorer.exe
3348[14:38:57] <tfgbd_> explorer.exe: PE32+ executable (GUI), for
MS Windows
3349[14:39:07] <tfgbd_> No CPU listed in your tool either
3353[14:41:38] <tfgbd_> Heres what compiled with gcc: file
/home/ubuntu/xqemu-build-aarch64/xqemu/i386-softmmu/qemu-system-i386
3354[14:41:38] <tfgbd_>
/home/ubuntu/xqemu-build-aarch64/xqemu/i386-softmmu/qemu-system-i386:
ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, ARM aarch64, version 1 (GNU/Linux),
dynamically linked, interpreter /lib/ld-, for GNU/Linux 3.7.0,
BuildID[sha1]=a8c45048f508a7cc7eecfed1ba5b94c45b42383e, with
debug_info, not stripped
3355[14:44:10] <tfgbd_> How do I crosscompile this for an older
lsb?
3384[14:55:02] <tabakhase> also check out "adminer" if
youre open to switch and dont rly need much, - otherwise phpmyadmin
is kinda just a wget + setting some secrets i think
3445[15:24:26] <dpkg> If you were already using Debian 10
"Buster" prior to it being released as stable, or you use
'testing' in your sources.list, apt complain about changes
to the release information on the mirror. apt(8) will prompt you to
accept changes; apt-get(8) will need --allow-releaseinfo-change
3457[15:31:42] <aaro> what's the official recommended
package tool for debian, i've been using for many years apt-get
apt-cache, some time ago i saw aptitude was recommended, is it now
apt recommended?
3466[15:34:12] <petn-randall> aaro: As jmcnaught said, whatever
you like. Only thing that's different is if you dist-upgrade,
the depedency resolution works slightly different on both tools.
3501[15:51:53] <jmcnaught> velix: it should only install if you
have the print server task selected in the tasksel stage of the
installer. cups should be safe to remove, but as always carefully
read the list of packages that apt proposes removing with it.
3502[15:52:01] <un214> apt-get update is complaining about buster
becoming stable with a useless recommendation to see man apt-secure
3503[15:52:50] <un214> If I apply the listed change in apt-secure
it would appear it turns off package signing altogether
3504[15:53:44] <jmcnaught> !apt suite changed
3505[15:53:44] <dpkg> If you were already using Debian 10
"Buster" prior to it being released as stable, or you use
'testing' in your sources.list, apt complain about changes
to the release information on the mirror. apt(8) will prompt you to
accept changes; apt-get(8) will need --allow-releaseinfo-change
3518[15:56:31] <sjamaan> I've upgraded a Stretch system to
Buster, but now nsd refuses to start (the config was fine in the old
setup and I didn't change it)
3519[15:56:56] <sjamaan> "error: Cannot open
/etc/nsd/var/log/nsd.log for appending (Permission denied)"
3520[15:57:07] <sjamaan> I'm using it with a chroot
3530[16:00:41] <un214> upgrading stretch -> buster reinstalled
systemd after I had explicitly reinstalled sysvinit-sysv -- maybe
something stupid along those lines messed up sjamaan; chroot boot
scripts are hard
3543[16:04:43] <velix> jmcnaught: seems like the German buster
notes got translated wrong then. They say "installed by
default"
3544[16:05:13] <jmcnaught> velix: it says that in the english
version too, but if you just press enter all the way through the
installer you will end up with CUPS
3578[16:15:05] <cybercrypto> it is really amazing job, of Debian
team, the new release. If that not enough... documentation
"wise" is super as well... :-) congrats!
3579[16:15:07] <jmcnaught> sjamaan: if you edit the file in
/lib/systemd/system it will just get replaced the next time the
package is updated. Instead you want to make a file like
/etc/systemd/system/nsd.service.d/capabilities.conf and override
that directive there
3599[16:18:48] <sjamaan> jmcnaught: How do I do that? I added a
two-line config there with "[Service]" on line 1 and
"CapabilityBoundingSet=" on line 2, but that doesn't
work
3600[16:18:58] <jezebel> just want to make a list of things
i'll be uninstalling :)
3601[16:19:02] <jezebel> un214… thx
3602[16:19:27] <un214> jezebel: if you want to start with almost
nothing, I recommend debootstrap instead
3603[16:19:31] <jezebel> e.g. iptables
3604[16:19:52] <jmcnaught> sjamaan: if you made a new file you
probably need to 'systemctl daemon-reload' to let systemd
know about it
3605[16:20:00] <sjamaan> I did that
3606[16:20:06] <sjamaan> But it appears that these sets are
merged
3607[16:20:19] <sjamaan> I just want it to be reset to the
default
3608[16:20:22] <dury> petn-randall, how was your first install of
Buster?
3609[16:21:08] <dury> petn-randall, not problem?
3610[16:21:12] <sjamaan> Ah, "CapabilityBoundingSet=~"
does the trick
3611[16:21:56] <petn-randall> dury: I hardly do any fresh
installs, it's mostly upgrades for me.
3670[16:39:17] <un214> in any case if systemd-sysv were to
install now everything would be broken because I made a fake
libsystemd0 package to satisfy kde dependency checks
3676[16:42:30] <dpkg> There is no need to waste your time or ours
trying to eliminate the string "systemd" from the output
of dpkg -l. Installed libraries that are unused are unused;
libsystemd0 takes up a whopping 180kB on disk. Having the
"systemd" package installed does not imply booting with
systemd (that's the systemd-sysv package). Not all packages
with "systemd" in their name are even from the systemd
source package (see <systemd-shim>).
3677[16:42:52] <petn-randall> un214: What "doesn't
work"? systemd-sysv is one piece of the systemd eco system.
3678[16:43:36] <un214> I couldn't figure out because the
system was too degenerate
3679[16:43:45] <un214> I think I was still in a readonly / at the
login prompt
3682[16:45:32] <petn-randall> un214: That sounds like it's
completely unrelated to that package.
3683[16:45:36] <petn-randall> !xy
3684[16:45:36] <dpkg> Slow down for a bit! Are you sure that you
need to jump through that particular hoop to achieve your goal? We
suspect you don't, so why don't you back up a bit and tell
us about the overall objective... We know that people often falsely
diagnose problems because they are too close to them -- it's
easy to miss that there is a better way to proceed. See
replaced-url
3700[16:51:09] <petn-randall> un214: In none of the supported
releases did this package ever exist. So you'll need to find
out where it came from, and probably bug those people on how to get
it working with buster.
3701[16:51:14] <un214> I was almost certainly running this one
for a day or so:
replaced-url
3702[16:52:30] <un214> I'm currently running this one
replaced-url
3707[16:54:52] <un214> ok right libpam-systemd directly depends
on systemd-sysv so that's why everything went haywire
3708[16:55:50] <pja> That seems fairly reasonable.
3709[16:56:20] <un214> libpam-systemd is a dependency of
kde's core libraries
3710[16:56:42] <un214> the kde desktop depends systemd but the
applications really don't
3711[16:57:05] <dvs> un214, that's what I found out
3712[16:57:08] <petn-randall> un214: Ah, ok. Is your goal to get
your system running properly, or is your goal to avoid systemd?
Because those two might be conflicting goals.
3713[16:57:31] <un214> I think systemd doesn't support my
hardware
3714[16:57:41] <petn-randall> I highly doubt that.
3799[17:24:32] <petn-randall> N3VR1K: This is the Debian support
channel. Only questions regarding Debian are on-topic here. Congrats
on installing Kali/Parrot.
3800[17:24:35] *** Quits: N3VR1K (~ska@replaced-ip) (Killed (edk (Please do not spam.)))
3843[17:40:12] <jasonwc> With regard to Release Notes 5.1.6 that
says /lib/modprobe.d/systemd.conf sets " options bonding
max_bonds=0" by default, has anyone overrided this setting with
a custom config? I am using bonding for my main interface
3844[17:40:23] <jmcnaught> Muyfret: that's wrong,
/etc/passwd is already owned by root:root but the file needs to be
readable by others
3880[17:51:32] <dpkg> The release notes for Debian 10
"Buster" are at
replaced-url
3881[17:52:12] <Deihmos> i plan to do a clean install. i am just
curious how does one know there is a release update if they
don't follow debian website. i thought apt update would show it
3908[18:01:09] <J2KSo2> hi guys. i'm not able to install my
wlan usb adapter... can someone help me? i have a clean debian 9.9
installation... and i'm connected over wire. i can't find
any settings for my wlan usb :(
3938[18:14:23] <jan6> separate /home, and MAYBE /boot, and
all's nice and dandy ;]
3939[18:14:24] <jelly> given any specific "hardening"
advice, you should try to understand what it's protecting from
("attack surface") and why it's a good idea to
protect from that instead of leaving it be ("risk
management")
3940[18:14:47] *** Joins: Abdullah (~ak@replaced-ip)
3941[18:14:57] <dvs> jan6, agrees
3942[18:15:06] <Muyfret> my system has trouble unmounting /var
3943[18:15:12] <magic_ninja_work> Yea, but debian's
installer will do: efi, /boot, / and /home which is a good shceme
3944[18:15:42] <jelly> Muyfret, at shutdown/reboot time?
That's usually not a big problem.
3945[18:15:51] <Muyfret> yes shutdown
3946[18:16:20] <J2KSo2> Mathisen: I'm getting: modprobe:
FATAL: Module 88x2bu not found in directory
/lib/modules/4.9.0-9-686-pae
3947[18:16:35] <jan6> magic_ninja_work: that's also
basically what I described, separate EFI is required for UEFI boot
3950[18:18:07] <magic_ninja_work> Never hurts to have a parrot.
Squawk!
3951[18:18:29] <magic_ninja_work> The point being, though, that
the debian installer does a nice job of setting that up, especially
with lvm
3952[18:18:41] *** Tom_- is now known as Tom-_
3953[18:19:08] <jelly> Muyfret, sshd_config settings there are
another bit that's so old the values (for Ciphers in
particular) are actively harmful and can prevent you from connecting
from a modern ssh client
3954[18:19:38] *** Quits: Abdullah (~ak@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
3955[18:19:53] *** Joins: Abdullah (~ak@replaced-ip)
3957[18:20:37] <jelly> magic_ninja_work, debian-installer up
until debian 9 has done a horrid job of picking separate partitions
and their size, I'm VERY glad that' apparently fixed
3958[18:21:49] <Muyfret> since i don't know my root password
i will disable root login
3964[18:25:21] <magic_ninja_work> just something to be aware of.
I had debian on my laptop but the battery life was atrocious. when
switching to another distro, but keeping the partition scheme the
/boot partition gave me some headaches and I had to shuffle stuff.
4068[19:07:08] *** Quits: Abdullah (~ak@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
4069[19:07:24] <jmcnaught> Muyfret: are you doing these hardening
changes in a virtual machine? If not then you should consider using
VMs so you can break stuff without breaking your computer. Test
first.
4077[19:09:29] <jelly> Muyfret, go set up some free web hosting
with php, then you'll quickly see what kinds of exploits are
actually getting around and what kinds of mitigations are actually
useful
4078[19:09:46] *** Joins: mano (~manoj@replaced-ip)
4079[19:09:59] <jelly> a noexec /tmp is pretty much useless on a
private system
4083[19:10:55] <GNU\colossus> on buster, will I still need to
have bridge-utils installed to have interfaces(5) set up an ethernet
bridge for me? (I'm asking since `ip` can do that, too.)
4085[19:11:15] <SpeedyG> hey, after upgrading to buster, my audio
device seems to be inactive and it only plays through hdmi now...
how can I get my audio back again?
4089[19:11:55] <epony> well, WHY don't the developers ship a
reliable and secure system without the user needing to manually
perform complex and error prone steps to make it so
4090[19:12:02] <GNU\colossus> jelly, ah, neat. must have missed
that somehow :)
4091[19:12:14] <jelly> epony, because it's a lot of work.
4100[19:14:32] <jmcnaught> SpeedyG: have you tried using
pavucontrol? Maybe pulseaudio is just using the wrong output device?
4101[19:14:36] <jelly> epony, Debian packages and integration is
a work of volunteers for the most part. If you feel some aspects are
missing, contribute.
4103[19:15:45] <SpeedyG> jmcnaught: pavu only shows hdmi
outputs...
4104[19:15:46] <zleap> hi i have just tried to update my netbook
(stretch to buster) I think I hada power failure part way though, as
my netbook was off, turning back on it boots so far and then now I
have a blank screen with the scren flashing
4105[19:16:05] <zleap> i cna see the mouse cursor but don't
seem to be able to switch to a console with ctrl-alt-f1 etc
4119[19:17:16] *** Quits: mano (~manoj@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
4120[19:17:50] *** Quits: n4dir (~n4dir@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
4121[19:18:12] <jmcnaught> SpeedyG: does 'pacmd
list-sinks' show the device?
4122[19:18:17] <jelly> zleap, (recommended but options: start
screen or tmux, be root, and inside it) run "dpkg --configure
-a", then run "apt-get -f install", then redo the
last command you were doing
4123[19:18:24] <jelly> optional*
4124[19:18:29] <zleap> ok
4125[19:18:36] <zleap> well i can't login via ssh
4126[19:18:47] <zleap> should i reboot and then try and select
something from the boot menu
4131[19:19:16] <SpeedyG> jmcnaught: nope, only the HDMI one
4132[19:19:29] <jmcnaught> SpeedyG: do you have timidity
installed?
4133[19:19:35] <dtux> is there a CLI for determining where i
should store app-specific configs (e.g. appdirs, but without needing
a python package)?
4134[19:20:11] <SpeedyG> jmcnaught: looks like it, yeah
4135[19:20:19] <zleap> on the boot menu there is advanced options
4136[19:20:45] <SpeedyG> jmcnaught: this is the output of pacmd:
replaced-url
4137[19:20:51] <jmcnaught> SpeedyG: there's a pretty good
chance that timidity is hogging the card, if you don't need it
try removing the package, or simply stop it with 'systemctl
stop timidity'
4175[19:30:15] <jelly> that is also fine if you know the root
password and get a shell.
4176[19:30:38] <zleap> just ran dpkg --configure -a seems to be
doing something update related
4177[19:30:48] *** Quits: bdr (~bdr@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
4178[19:30:54] <jelly> did you start screen or script to log the
output?
4179[19:30:55] <zleap> setting up <packagename>
4180[19:30:59] <Error451> Q. gonna do a fresh Debian install ,
first time on a physical machine , installed/ran in VMs so that
shouldn't be a problem, but never had multiple disks, I could
use pointers on making the 2nd storage usable
4201[19:35:07] <zleap> if I re-install can i select weather the
installer should format /home
4202[19:35:23] <friendofafriend> zleap: Yes.
4203[19:35:45] <zleap> ok cool so it will pick up the /home
partition
4204[19:35:58] <jmcnaught> Error451: are you using a RAID feature
built into your motherboard? That RAID array might only ever be
usable on that brand/model of motherboard, using Linux software RAID
(mdadm) is probably better, and the Debian installer can help you
get it set up.
4208[19:36:27] <friendofafriend> You'll see the label, if
you labelled it. Otherwise, just note the partition number.
You'll need to use the advanced parititoner.
4260[19:53:19] <ardya> is there a limitation in debian 10
graphical installer regarding lvm? my disk doesn't show in the
list of disks to create a volume group
4261[19:53:51] <zleap> is buster 4.19 kernel
4262[19:54:16] <J_C> zleap: yes, buster has the 4.19 kernel
4263[19:54:24] <ardya> trying to do a manual partitioning scheeme
using lvm, but theres no disk listed
4268[19:54:46] <J_C> zleap: np. can i ask why you want to know?
4269[19:55:28] <zleap> i had a power fail while updating earlier,
was suggested i get to a console and use dpkg --configure -a which I
am running now, so out put of that other than setting up packages
refered to 4.19 kernel
4270[19:55:40] *** Quits: hele (~hele@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
4271[19:55:46] <zleap> so hopefully i am updating to buster
4286[19:58:37] <cmptr> How many repos should be in the
Sources.list? Should there just be two? Buster and Security? Or
should there be three? Buster, Security and Buster-Updates?
4287[19:59:05] <jelly> !buster sources.list
4288[19:59:06] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for
"Buster" has three lines: "deb
replaced-url
4300[20:01:34] <zleap> i added one for weechat so I had a later
version, but buster now has that same version
4301[20:01:41] <zleap> so i don't need that in there
4302[20:01:45] <void5f> I had a quick question regarding
installing debian. I have to use a non-free image to install debian
for my wireless card to work. But does installing from a non-free
image, automatically add non-free repos after a fresh install? or
how does it work?
4303[20:02:19] <zleap> i think so yes, as far as I can tell the
main difference is the lines have non-free in them
4304[20:02:40] <zleap> which you can do manually as far as I
understand
4307[20:03:39] *** Quits: chance (~chance@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
4308[20:04:10] <void5f> a friend of mine just recently installed
debian from a non-free image and his wireless card works after the
install but he doesnt have any non free repos enabled by default.
was just curious if that should be the default?
4309[20:04:25] <jelly> void5f, it does not, you still have to add
contrib and non-free manually to sources
4310[20:04:45] <zleap> ah thanks
4311[20:04:46] <jelly> because you want upgrades/patches for that
firmware
4312[20:04:57] <jelly> should it happen
4313[20:05:14] <zleap> so i add contrib and non free to all 3
line
4314[20:05:19] <jelly> right
4315[20:05:44] <void5f> ah i see.
4316[20:05:51] <zleap> I will see how tb behaves on this netbook
and may just re-install it seemed very unstable before
4317[20:05:56] <jelly> and things like intel-microcode for
CPU-related security bugs
4330[20:13:29] <Deihmos> accessibility installer is a nice
addition
4331[20:13:42] <cmptr> I changed the security-debian.org to
ftp.ca.debian.org for the debian-security repo, hopfully that
doesn't cause any issues. I tested it out, and it seems okay.
4359[20:30:37] *** BrianG61UK_ is now known as BrianG61UK
4360[20:30:40] <nkuttler> so what's the standard method to
add parameters to a service with a systemd service file? if i edit
it that gets messy with updates. should they support /etc/default/ ?
4364[20:32:52] <jmcnaught> nkuttler: you can make a drop-in file
like /etc/systemd/system/foo.service.d/myoverride.conf that
overrides ExecStart=. Make sure to include a blank ExecStart= before
your actual override ExecStart=foo --param because it accepts
multiple lines, a blank clears it out
4376[20:38:45] <jmcnaught> nkuttler: I forgot to mention that
ExecStart= will need to be under a [Service] heading, here's an
example of what I mean:
replaced-url
4517[21:36:19] <discovered> In last few years, i always did the
fresh install :) . This time i did the difference heh... I am on now
fresh debian buster stable :)
4518[21:37:08] <annadane> i was going to release upgrade but i
didn't feel like yelling at WINE dependencies so fresh install
it is...
4544[21:47:49] <epony> I do frequent re-installs in place,
typically at least weekly or sometimes daily, with every new
snapshot.. for years. Obviously the process is very efficient and
the system keeps up clean and consistent. Never had upgrade problems
like that. Obviously a different approach that actually works
consistently and is reproducible.
4546[21:48:12] <jelly> discovered, there's nothing in
dpkg/apt package management that can't be fixed to require a
full reinstall. Also I have backups.
4557[21:51:46] <jelly> ZenWalker, bits and pieces of web ui may
take some time
4558[21:51:54] <epony> yes, not Debian or a distro, a different
OS.. it's OpenBSD :-) Previously was using a compile and
rebuild process with FreeBSD weekly, same result (in place
re-install).
4559[21:52:12] <discovered> jelly, So it is usually waste of time
doing full reinstall for upgrade...? What debian team recommend?
4560[21:52:15] <jelly> that makes sense.
4561[21:52:35] <jelly> discovered, in-place release upgrades are
fully supported.
4562[21:52:41] <un214> apt-get is deterministic
4563[21:53:02] <jelly> un214, it is, but not all bugs get fixed.
4565[21:54:28] <ZenWalker> jelly: thanks, and congratulations for
this new release :)
4566[21:55:40] *** Joins: hele (~hele@replaced-ip)
4567[21:56:11] <discovered> Is python2 still in debian 10?
4568[21:56:15] <jelly> epony, if you're talkiing about a
workflow that does not actually apply to Debian, it might be worth
mentioning that explicitely so other people don't get confused
4630[22:18:43] <discovered> If i do apt update i get some error:
replaced-url
4631[22:18:54] <discovered> Is it normal?
4632[22:18:59] <tabakhase> !apt suite changed
4633[22:18:59] <dpkg> If you were already using Debian 10
"Buster" prior to it being released as stable, or you use
'testing' in your sources.list, apt complain about changes
to the release information on the mirror. apt(8) will prompt you to
accept changes; apt-get(8) will need --allow-releaseinfo-change
4636[22:20:19] <jelly> epony, there's always some cruft left
but it's manageable. Possibly the worst part of upgrades is
Desktop Environment software that does not deal well with old
settings.
4637[22:20:58] <plouj> hi, how does db_fset work? Neither
replaced-url
4638[22:21:10] <jelly> I probably nuked configs for xfce and kde
2-3 times each
4639[22:21:37] <rant> plouj: you may be better served to head
over to OFTC ( irc.debian.org or irc.oftc.net ) and ask someone in
perhaps #debian-mentors or such
4640[22:21:41] <jelly> plouj, maybe ask in #packaging over on
irc.oftc.net
4641[22:22:08] <epony> jelly yes, understandable, I'm using
a window manager only (no DE), so the config file changes are hand
manageable for that part
4642[22:22:26] <discovered> oh now the errors disappear!
tabakhase
4644[22:23:08] <jelly> Debian manages a decent percentange of
changes to global configs in /etc on its own for release upgrades;
the less changes you make, the better
4648[22:24:38] <jelly> when there are incompatible changes, you
usually get a warning at release upgrade time to force new defaults,
or it's documented in release notes
4671[22:34:24] <jelly> un214, depends on upstream changes and on
debian maintainers.
4672[22:34:52] <jelly> clamav has _excellent_ upgrades of global
config settings
4673[22:35:10] <discovered> I don't use samba that much in
my Desktop computer. I would like to test how it is doing.
4674[22:35:13] <epony> In the BSDs (OpenBSD in particular) there
is a sysmerge tool that does a diff (review changes) and merge on
the fly, so if you know the config files it's quite handy.
4675[22:35:31] <un214> apt-get has one too, but it needs some
work
4752[23:13:42] <dpkg> The MATE Desktop Environment is a fork of
GNOME 2, available since Debian 8 "Jessie" (and also in
wheezy-backports). To install, ask me about <install mate>.
replaced-url
4767[23:16:37] <jelly> Muyfret, a) configure them not to do so or
b) make /var/log a tmpfs mountpoint and recreate directories owned
by packages at every boot
4768[23:16:54] <jhutchins> Muyfret: Why? What's your actual
goal
4802[23:27:06] <kreyren> i'm running `qemu-system-x86_64
-kernel ... -enable-kvm` and i'm getting `Could not access KVM
kernel module: No such file or directory` -> How do i get kvm
module on debian bullseye ?
4803[23:27:22] <jhutchins> un214: I usually use gimp.
4804[23:27:40] <jelly> !debian-next
4805[23:27:40] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for
testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not*
on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is
invite only)." it means you did not read it's on
irc.oftc.net.
4806[23:27:41] <jhutchins> !kvm
4807[23:27:43] <jelly> kreyren, ^
4808[23:27:54] <un214> I use gimp from time to time; I find
it's layering too much
4809[23:28:18] <kreyren> jelly, well stable is now buster and
buster is mirror of bullseye xD but whatever
4810[23:28:27] <jelly> kreyren, bullseye is going to be a rough
ride for the next couple of weeks, good luck
4811[23:28:51] <jelly> kreyren, if you can reproduce the issue on
actual buster, ask here.
4812[23:29:19] <kreyren> jelly, it has bullseye repositories but
it didn't update anything yet (still shows buster in neofetch
etc..)
4813[23:29:29] <jelly> yeah, not buying it
4814[23:29:38] *** Quits: CyberX (~CyberX@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
4823[23:30:59] <dpkg> Kernel-based Virtual Machine (KVM) is a
full <virtualization> solution for Linux hosts on x86 hardware
with x86 guests. Packaged as qemu-kvm since Debian 6.0
"Squeeze". See
replaced-url