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• 5[00:01:22] <abrotman> Nothing4You: move the openntpd start to the end of the boot sequence
• 6[00:01:37] <abrotman> or see if you can disable the triggers
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• 8[00:02:20] <Nothing4You> the trigger seems to be /etc/network/if-up.d/openntpd
• 9[00:02:35] <Nothing4You> running `invoke-rc.d openntpd force-reload` every time
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• 19[00:07:28] <abrotman> Nothing4You: you can you chmod -x that? or just move it to the end of the boot process
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• 21[00:08:08] <Nothing4You> how would i move it?
• 22[00:08:43] <abrotman> I would think you'd be able to change the dependency with systemd, but perhaps I'm mistaken
• 23[00:09:05] <Nothing4You> it's already configured to after=network.target
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• 25[00:09:15] <Nothing4You> which from the name sounds like it wouldn't be started until network is up
• 26[00:09:34] <Nothing4You> and i'd assume that also means all interfaces are up
• 27[00:09:36] <abrotman> which it is, after the first interface, technically speaking
• 28[00:09:48] <Nothing4You> i guess you can argue that way
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• 35[00:14:11] <hypercore> what's the difference between apt and apt-get
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• 37[00:14:23] <Nothing4You> they're different tools for the same job basically
• 38[00:14:50] <hypercore> which should i use?
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• 42[00:15:02] <somiaj> hypercore: apt-get is used in lots of scripts and needs a very stable comand line interface because of this, it also has a lot of features most users may not need. apt was inteded to be a more end user replacement that isn't tied to such restrictions.
• 43[00:15:12] <Nothing4You> apt also has a fancier interface
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• 46[00:15:22] <Nothing4You> including stuff like a progress bar
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• 48[00:15:34] <somiaj> hypercore: as such apt has a simiplifed set of commands, nicer output, and is not guarnteed to have a stable cli interface, allowing the devs to put new fancy user features into it.
• 49[00:15:54] <somiaj> hypercore: they both install stuff use either, though apt is intended to be the more end user tool.
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• 52[00:18:20] <hypercore> ok, apt it is
• 53[00:18:22] <hypercore> thanks
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• 60[00:24:36] <galex-713> when will buster becomes stable yet?
• 61[00:24:50] <galex-713> how much does it usually takes to pass from one stable to the next?
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• 65[00:26:02] <abrotman> galex-713: 18-24 months typically
• 66[00:26:05] <somiaj> galex-713: releases are happening about every two years, give or take. Debian lives on the time line of 'when its ready'
• 67[00:26:22] <galex-713> ok
• 68[00:26:25] <somiaj> galex-713: things to look for, 1) look for when the freeze date is announced, then about 6 months (give or take) after that.
• 69[00:26:30] <abrotman> dpkg: tell galex-713 about release history
• 70[00:26:31] <galex-713> thank you, I always forget
• 71[00:27:20] <annadane> the freeze is due for march 2019 i believe
• 72[00:27:28] <annadane> so possibly late june 2019
• 73[00:27:34] <galex-713> mmmh
• 74[00:27:45] <annadane> more accurately "when it's ready"
• 75[00:27:56] <galex-713> ok thank you :)
• 76[00:28:12] <annadane> 6 months really? i just saw that message now, i assumed it was closer to 3-4 months
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• 78[00:28:38] <Nothing4You> ugh
• 79[00:28:51] <Nothing4You> i've removed openntpd now to use systemd-timesyncd instead
• 80[00:29:00] <Nothing4You> in an attempt to reduce boot time
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• 82[00:29:25] <Nothing4You> now i see a bunch of messages "ifup[608]: Waiting for DAD... Done"
• 83[00:29:49] <galex-713> shouldn’t systemd parallelize stuff so stuff such as ntpd shouldn’t increase boottime?
• 84[00:29:50] <somiaj> annadane: stretches freeze was in novmenber (2016-11-05 -- note this was just a transition freeze), and release in june (2017-06-17)
• 85[00:30:09] <Nothing4You> galex-713: the problems seem to be caused by my ~30 virtual interfaces
• 86[00:30:30] <somiaj> galex-713: there is still a loose dependency chain, and if something core takes a while, otehr thigns can't start until that is completed
• 87[00:30:52] <annadane> well, soft vs hard freeze, yeah
• 88[00:30:56] <galex-713> ah, I recall when squeeze was a new thing
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• 91[00:31:59] <galex-713> somiaj: that’s sad, ntpd shouldn’t be required upon a lot of stuff…
• 92[00:32:07] <galex-713> at least not, for instance, DM
• 93[00:32:26] <somiaj> galex-713: it does need the network to be up.
• 94[00:32:33] <somiaj> galex-713: which needs the root file system to be mounted.
• 95[00:33:04] <galex-713> somiaj: the DM?
• 96[00:33:13] <Nothing4You> i don't have a DM on that machine
• 97[00:33:17] <galex-713> oh
• 98[00:33:23] <galex-713> why do you want to reduce boot time?
• 99[00:33:33] <Nothing4You> it's also blocking ssh
• 100[00:33:44] <Nothing4You> i want to reduce downtime when the machine reboots
• 101[00:34:25] <somiaj> well now you are dealing with targets, and I don't think the graphical.target is ran until the earler targets are complete.
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• 103[00:34:56] <Nothing4You> the machine doesn't have a gui
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• 105[00:35:04] <Nothing4You> graphical.target doesn't matter for me
• 106[00:35:34] <Nothing4You> it's only accessed via network
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• 108[00:36:17] <somiaj> Nothing4You: that was more a response for galex-713, systemd isn't fully parallel, because not everything can be paralized.
• 109[00:36:55] <galex-713> somiaj: why?
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• 112[00:37:55] <somiaj> galex-713: there is #systemd if you really want to know. One reason is some services depend on other services being up and running. Such as anything that requires the network, needs the network to be up first. I'm not quite sure on targets and how paralized they are.
• 113[00:38:17] <somiaj> systemd can speed up boots, but a lot does depend on the actual machine and what services and processes need to be completed during the boot process
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• 116[00:39:03] <galex-713> somiaj: ah yes, I knew about dependencies, dmd also do that
• 117[00:39:07] <galex-713> sorry, shepherd
• 118[00:39:08] <Nothing4You> and i'm back to my <6s boot time after specifying dad-attempts 0 on the interfaces
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• 172[01:05:15] <neo_> Hi people, please, I am having some problems with my Debian stretch. The problem is that, sometimes, after resuming from suspending, the graphic interface is rebooted .. I am using Linux 4.15.0-1-amd64 SMP Debian 4.15.4-1 (2018-02-18) x86_64 GNU/Linux with ICEWM 1.3.8+mod+20161220-1 ... where can I start to look for some logs to know what is it happening ? thank you all
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• 178[01:06:13] <awal1> any nice trick for open all apt history compressed files at once?
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• 180[01:07:00] <awal1> via less/zless*cat/zcat or something
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• 241[01:51:29] <JewBot> they belong to my people
• 242[01:51:35] <JewBot> the chosen ones
• 243[01:51:48] <JewBot> and not to you, the common monkey-folk
• 244[01:51:54] <JewBot> from africka most likely
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• 273[02:14:08] <JordiGH> Are iptables still fashionable? Has something newer replaced them?
• 274[02:14:13] <JordiGH> Or is there a better frontend?
• 275[02:14:36] <somiaj> iptables is still the standard front end to netfilter, and so far as I know, it is the current technology
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• 277[02:14:56] <somiaj> now if you want to use iptables or some front end like uwf, I think there are lots of varaitions on what is used to write the rules.
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• 279[02:16:37] <michael2> does stretch have a dedicated boot log? e.g. somethig equivalent to /var/log/boot ?
• 280[02:18:13] <JordiGH> somiaj: I thought systemd had changed something here.
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• 284[02:18:56] <somiaj> JordiGH: not in this case. netfilter is kernel level, and iptables is still the major front end to it, and I haven't seen anything in systemd to replace it. Systemd may have some new tools to save/restore rules, but that is different.
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• 287[02:19:44] <somiaj> michael2: journalctl might be able to better give a 'boot log' and you can make it persistant, mkdir /var/log/journal -- also check /var/log/messages for kernel info, and the various other logs for different things. But I can't thik of any single location.
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• 289[02:21:14] <michael2> thanks, and yeah as far as I know there is no "firewalld"
• 290[02:21:22] <michael2> yet...
• 291[02:21:48] <michael2> although there is "networkd" or something I think
• 292[02:22:42] <somiaj> yea, and I guess you chould hook firewall rules to that, though disabled in debian by default in favor of /etc/network/interfaces
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• 294[02:23:22] <somiaj> michael2: I think the best you could do for a boot log is use journalctl to output a log to a text file at the end of the boot, that should give you all the log info from the start of systemd to the time you run the command.
• 295[02:23:31] <somiaj> but this is somethign you would have to add, don't think it is ther eby default.
• 296[02:25:42] <awal1> I installed 'firewallld' but hvent had time to check how it is/works
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• 298[02:27:05] <awal1> JordiGH, there are a few more. aptitude search firewall
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• 300[02:28:02] <awal1> firewalld is from systemd i guess
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• 302[02:28:21] <somiaj> awal1: I think firewalld was a joke
• 303[02:28:23] <awal1> dpkg; firewalld
• 304[02:28:23] <dpkg> no idea, awal1
• 305[02:28:36] <awal1> somiaj, a joke?
• 306[02:28:48] <somiaj> that systemd doesn't have a firewalld 'yet'
• 307[02:29:03] <somiaj> though most firewalls are just front ends to iptables, and the question was about iptables
• 308[02:29:05] <awal1> i don't get you
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• 310[02:29:42] <awal1> yes, all front ends of iptables, sure
• 311[02:29:47] <somiaj> systemd has a bunch of tools replacing old tools, like journald, networkd, so if systemd were to build a firewall tool, firewalld seems like something they would name it.
• 312[02:29:57] <somiaj> i.e. it was joking that systemd hasn't built its own firewall utility yet.
• 313[02:30:06] <awal1> ah
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• 315[02:30:13] <somiaj> but yea, if you have to explain a joke, it isn't worth it, just move on
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• 317[02:30:36] <awal1> i use ufw and it is good
• 318[02:30:37] <likcoras> somiaj: what about nftables? I thought the documentation was suggesting us to move off of *tables to nft.
• 319[02:30:47] <likcoras> (although I haven't bothered yet)
• 320[02:31:32] <jim> heya somiaj, we were talking about this the other day, that ip with -json for route isn't getting in for awhile... so: can I build a "private" copy of iproute2 (the one that's not released yet) specifically for the purpose of the ipmasq helper scripts? (and then of course remove that when that version of ip is eventually released)
• 321[02:31:56] <awal1> any nice trick for open all apt history compressed files at once?
• 322[02:32:04] <somiaj> likcoras: first I have heard of that, so yea, I guess there is a tool that might replace it, but it may take a while to actuall do so.
• 323[02:32:26] <somiaj> !tell jim about uupdated
• 324[02:32:28] <somiaj> !tell jim about uupdate
• 325[02:32:46] <awal1> not only apt ones but I a bit "lazy" to open .gz files one by one sometimes
• 326[02:32:47] <somiaj> jim: you might be able to use that with the code from the current master branch and build your own custom package from the git master branch.
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• 329[02:33:11] <michael2> guys, yes I was joking about firewalld - I was readin your comments and unable to explain - as I was experiencing a problem with my <Ctrl> key locked to "on" - its crazy - I had to suspend and resume to clear it!
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• 331[02:33:38] <awal1> ,v firewalld
• 332[02:33:39] <judd> Package: firewalld on amd64 -- jessie: 0.3.12-1; stretch: 0.4.4.2-1; buster: 0.4.4.6-2; sid: 0.4.4.6-2
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• 334[02:35:14] <somiaj> jim: you could also build and install it locally in say /usr/local (which due to $PATH) would be used instead of the debian one, or if you really watned to, use equivs to build a package to replace the iproute2 package on your system so you don't have both installed.
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• 337[02:35:50] <likcoras> nft sounds better... replaced-url
• 338[02:36:13] <somiaj> jim: these are some of the standard ways to build newer stuff and install it nicely in debian. Though be careful when doing this with something that could be used by other peices of debian, if the iproute2 tools have changed enough that the debian scripts are no longer compaitable, you could have unforseen issues.
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• 341[02:36:38] <JordiGH> What about the ip program, is that reputable or old?
• 342[02:36:47] <somiaj> likcoras: yea, seems that is the point, but sometimes things take a while to come into light, first the project needs to mature and be tested on more and more systems, and then all the old stuff needs to slowly move.
• 343[02:37:12] <somiaj> JordiGH: my understanding is ip (iproute2) is the modern tool to be using
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• 345[02:37:26] <likcoras> Well, the documentation there suggest that it is production-ready, and the people I've talked to that have used it all recommend it for production use.
• 346[02:37:32] <likcoras> Just... new stuff... bleh.
• 347[02:37:52] <likcoras> I'll get around to it eventually.
• 348[02:37:57] <somiaj> In debian, stretch was the first release to not include the old net-tools (ifconfig and others) were not included by default.
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• 350[02:38:11] <likcoras> Maybe on the next debian release, I guess?
• 351[02:38:13] <likcoras> =/
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• 353[02:38:28] <somiaj> likcoras: yea, its changing what people are use to, if something works, it is hard to get people to change.
• 354[02:38:51] <somiaj> likcoras: most likely debian will keep both around as long as it can, and let the user choose what to use. net-tools is still around (just not installed by default)
• 355[02:38:58] <jim> somiaj, well that's why I was thinking "private copy", maybe set the iproute2 prefix to /usr/share/ipmasq/new-ip or something like that, then nothing current would use it
• 356[02:39:19] <somiaj> jim: most ./configure scripts have a --prefix option so you can do just that.
• 357[02:39:41] <somiaj> jim: though I would just install it in $HOME then, something like --prefix=/home/jim/iproute2
• 358[02:40:05] <jim> right, if I wanted it just for myself
• 359[02:40:06] <somiaj> jim: I would not put it in /usr/share, I would put it in /usr/local/iproute2 or /usr/local/something.
• 360[02:40:24] <somiaj> jim: stuff in /usr (not /usr/local) should be reserved to only stuff installed by debian packages.
• 361[02:40:51] <somiaj> !tell jim about uupdate
• 362[02:40:56] <somiaj> jim: sorry, the bot enver sent the info to you
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• 365[02:42:12] <jim> could I distribute something like that? or even, could it get accepted back into debian when it's in /usr/local? I was under the impression that debian packaging was not permitted to touch /usr/local
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• 367[02:42:43] <somiaj> jim: it isn't, I was saying for a local install. If you follow the uupdate factoid, you will create a debian package and can install it normally.
• 368[02:42:50] <JordiGH> Can I have a gmail volunteer to see if it thinks I'm a spammer?
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• 371[02:43:09] <michael2> somiaj: is journalctl capable of logging on behalf of the kernel? I would have thought it's only capable of reporting service and userland events?
• 372[02:43:27] <somiaj> michael2: it is a full journal utility, journalctl -k, though this just reads from the kernel buffer
• 373[02:43:38] <jim> ok, I don't understand uupdate yet, and I'll read up
• 374[02:44:21] <jim> JordiGH, what's a "gmail"?
• 375[02:44:30] <somiaj> jim: as for getting it into debian, yes there are ways to get a package into debian, in this case I wouldn't bother. iproute2 already has current matainers in debian, and they seem to do a good job at keeping up with putting new releases into debian, so I doubt anyone would sponsor your package for this.
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• 377[02:45:07] <jim> can I talk to the iproute2 maints?
• 378[02:45:10] <somiaj> jim: as I said last time, I would expcet that within a resonable time frame after the new version 4.17.0 of iproute2 is released, it will make its way into debian.
• 379[02:45:48] <somiaj> jim: you can file a bug report just like anyone else, but I don't think anything will change because of this. Debian isn't going to package the master branch mid release, when releases are fairly regural. It is going to wait until the actual 4.17.0 release and package that.
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• 383[02:46:29] <jim> let me check out this uupdate thing (post-burrito :)
• 384[02:46:53] <somiaj> jim: if a new release is available, a common bug is a wishlist bug for a new version, but in this case it is not needed and will only cause noise for the matainers. I don't really see much of a point of packaging a pre-release thing for debian, and I expect the new release to be in the next few months (if not sooner)
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• 387[02:47:19] <somiaj> jim: uupdate, and building your own package is very educational, but this will be for your personal use. I suggest not bothering the matainers with this.
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• 389[02:48:01] <jim> will uupdate give me a new source package?
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• 391[02:48:16] <somiaj> no, it will update the current debian/ dir to build the package for the new source
• 392[02:48:26] <somiaj> and thus allow you to build the package using the new source
• 393[02:48:51] <jim> so I would have to replace that source in the source tree?
• 394[02:50:02] <somiaj> you download the current source using git, you use git archive to put the source into a .tar.gz, you download the debian source package, you then follow the bots factoid and run uupdate in the current debian source tree, point it at the new source, and see if it can update it for you automatically.
• 395[02:50:08] <somiaj> and of course on scripts like this, ymmv
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• 397[02:50:29] <somiaj> jim: what was the link to the git tree for this, google isn't helping
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• 399[02:51:46] <michael2> jeez, when I run `dmesg --human' the time it gives is wrong
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• 402[02:53:10] <somiaj> jim: but to give you an idea of a time line, 4.16.0 was tagged as a release on 2018-04-02 and the package first appeared in experiemental on 2018-04-16, which is fairly quick turn around. I would expect that the new stuff makes it into debian (in some form) in a month or two (since it looks like by historical timeline iproute2 will be having another release soon)
• 403[02:53:53] <somiaj> jim: Anyways, I suggest doing what you are doing for educational reasons, but in terms of getting an actual package in debian, it will make it.
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• 414[03:03:03] <jim> well the reason I wanted to talk to the iproute2 maints, is they might have a source package for the new thing already, and if they do, I'd like to try building that
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• 416[03:03:32] <jim> but yeah, I'll do it for educ purposes
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• 420[03:06:11] <somiaj> I dobut they do, my guess is they wait for the actual release, because in general debian likes to provide the release (not the git master branch)
• 421[03:06:29] <somiaj> at least in software that is regurally released like iproute2 is
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• 423[03:07:00] <somiaj> and just looking at the debian package history, iproute2 has never not been an offical relese
• 424[03:07:29] <michael2> why do people say you need to enable persistent logging in journalctl - what happens if I dont? will journalctl only avail logs for the current boot?
• 425[03:07:59] <annadane> yes
• 426[03:08:05] <Unit193> replaced-url
• 427[03:08:08] <jim> yeah, I understand that part... it's only that if they do have a source package, it can save me a few steps
• 428[03:09:18] <michael2> annadane: thanks
• 429[03:09:21] <jim> but if not, I'm going to try building a private copy, it might be the closest thing to something that could be accepted
• 430[03:09:42] <jim> and, I'm not holding my breath as to whether it will be
• 431[03:11:19] <somiaj> jim: yea, I doubt they worry about making source pakages until the release...just wasted time if you ask me.
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• 433[03:11:24] <annadane> mkdir /var/log/journal to enable it
• 434[03:11:31] <annadane> i don't really bother at this point
• 435[03:13:25] <jim> somiaj, thanks for the conversation... it's burrito time :)
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• 438[03:14:30] <annadane> curiously, man journalctl doesn't seem to mention it
• 439[03:14:58] <somiaj> annadane: logs are only as useful as the person (or maybe software like zabbix) parsing them
• 440[03:15:27] <somiaj> annadane: beucase it isn't journalctl that does this, it is systemd-journald, which is listed in the SEE ALSO part of the page
• 441[03:15:42] <annadane> ah
• 442[03:16:00] <michael2> well I read on the internet you enable journalctl logging by adding line "Storage=persistent" to /etc/systemd/journalctl.conf
• 443[03:16:01] <somiaj> journalctl just reads the logs, it doens't make them
• 444[03:16:16] <annadane> yeah maybe
• 445[03:16:26] <somiaj> michael2: there is a new option Storage=auto, which is persistant if /var/log/journal exists, hence in debian that is now the default
• 446[03:16:42] <somiaj> michael2: so you don't need to enable it, you just need to create the directory (and reboot)
• 447[03:16:57] <michael2> also, how can journalctl get at kernel boot logs? when kernel is booting, systemd hasn't even started yet...
• 448[03:17:08] <annadane> boot -1 "boot to enable journalctl in the first place. ignore, you moron"
• 449[03:17:37] <michael2> somiaj: in my /etc/systemd/journalctl.conf "Storage=auto" is commented out
• 450[03:17:37] <somiaj> michael2: they are all stored in the kernel memeory (dmesg access this), and that is where it gets them.
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• 453[03:18:08] <somiaj> michael2: commented out usually means that is the internal default
• 454[03:18:27] <somiaj> michael2: i.e. it is giving examples of things you can confgiure, and they are already set to the default.
• 455[03:18:56] <michael2> somiaj: like compiled in option. ok. good to know.
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• 458[03:19:47] <somiaj> or however the program sets its default options if none are set.
• 459[03:20:06] <michael2> ok, so if journalctl simply queries the kernel to get kernel boot messages, shouldn't that mean that `dmesg' and `journalctl -k" should produce the same output? more or less...
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• 462[03:20:42] <somiaj> michael2: that is my understanding, though maybe journalctl keeps a better log, the kernel buffer is only so long and things will eventaully scroll away after running for a while with lots of kernel messages
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• 465[03:21:59] <michael2> ah, ok. so then does the kernel flush its buffer to /var/log/kern or something so we can get at the info kernel cant hold in memory anymore?
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• 468[03:23:13] <somiaj> I don't think so, but many thigns are in /var/log/messages
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• 470[03:23:57] <somiaj> though things keep changing and I don't look at logs that foten
• 471[03:24:24] <somiaj> yea only seems some things in in /var/log/kern.log
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• 473[03:25:02] <bitess> which is done by rsyslog in debian i believe.
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• 476[03:25:44] <michael2> so essentially journalctl and rsyslog are doing the same thing?
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• 481[03:28:05] <somiaj> I would say similar, part of the sysetmd hate, it really reinvented a wheel, and then took over lots of various independent processes, and many didn't like that, nor the way it went about it.
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• 483[03:28:26] <somiaj> so yea, journalctl is meant to be a single tool to access all logs, instead of rsyslog, and each service keeping their own log
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• 486[03:28:42] <somiaj> well jounrald, (journalctl is just a frontend to it)
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• 488[03:29:10] <somiaj> so rsyslog is only system logs, but journald will have logs for each and every service too
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• 491[03:30:29] <michael2> interesting, yeah I remember Lennart Pottering talking about trying to get rsyslog maintainer to allow hooks in rsyslog so when You run `systemctl status foo.service' systemctl could parse just that foo.services logs out of rsyslog stream.
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• 493[03:30:39] <iateadonut> right now, unix time is 1.52 billion seconds. is there a term for the 152? there's three sets of 10m seconds every year, and each of those can be divided into 10, so right now is 1526. are there people who measure time this way and have definitions for it?
• 494[03:30:59] <michael2> the rsyslog dev didn't cooperate to the full extent they wanted so they did journalctl - I think
• 495[03:31:22] <somiaj> iateadonut: not quite sure what you are asking the 1.52 is mearly the number of 'billion seconds' or 152 is the number of ten-million secconds
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• 497[03:31:37] <somiaj> iateadonut: are you asking about where this number came from, as in it is the number of seconds from a paticular date?
• 498[03:31:50] <annadane> fine, i give in, mkdir /var/log/journal, _something_ is going to break at some point, running sid
• 499[03:32:17] <somiaj> iateadonut: basically it is the number of seconds from UNIX Epoch time whic is Thursday, January 1st, 1970.
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• 501[03:32:55] <iateadonut> no, i'm asking if there are people who measure time by this, say, their phone shows them this number on a daily basis, and are aware of when the next meaningful number will occur.
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• 504[03:33:35] <bitess> heh
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• 507[03:33:47] <somiaj> iateadonut: people, problably not, but computes, yes. It is far easier to keep track of a signle number to give the time, and not have to worry about years, leap years, leap seconds, and so on.
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• 509[03:33:52] <iateadonut> so today, my phone would show 15268 because right now is "1526866394", and then when it hits 1527, then i say, "my god where has the <term for that decimal place> gone?!?"
• 510[03:34:10] <somiaj> iateadonut: so this allows computers to store a single number that can be converted to any time format (and time zone) using the date utility, 'man date'
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• 512[03:34:30] <somiaj> but if you want, by all means keep track of time in unix time.
• 513[03:34:37] <bitess> how much do you value your sanity? ^^
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• 516[03:35:33] <iateadonut> i'd like to, i just don't know what to say when this set of 1 million seconds rolls over to the next set, what's that called or whatever.
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• 519[03:36:28] <annadane> national drinking holiday
• 520[03:36:50] <iateadonut> if you
• 521[03:37:01] <iateadonut> if you're a good enough programmer, you could certainly take that day off (3 times a year)
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• 523[03:37:28] <somiaj> call it whatever you like, it won't like up with stanardard orbital times, there are about 31,557,600 seconds per year, so every million seconds is 10 days or so.
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• 526[03:37:50] <somiaj> note I included leap years into this, so I figured out seconds in a year with 365.25 days
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• 532[03:38:09] <somiaj> actually more like every million seconds is 12 days
• 533[03:38:15] <iateadonut> bitess, i think i may test my sanity this way.
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• 536[03:38:32] <iateadonut> every 10 million seconds is a holy day of calm reflection.
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• 538[03:40:12] <somiaj> iateadonut: accordign to replaced-url
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• 542[03:41:35] <iateadonut> somiaj, thanks. i'll look into that. i was going to ask on reddit and maybe stackoverflow, but maybe i can find an 'authority' here.
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• 545[03:44:51] <somiaj> iateadonut: no authority here, but in the futue try to keep questions to more debian questions, that was mostly off-topic
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• 549[03:46:24] <iateadonut> that was COMPLETELY off-topic. thanks, though.
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• 553[03:49:43] <LockeOrDemosthen> how do i save a screen resolution setting file to my startup file? in order to make resolution for vga monitor the same everytime
• 554[03:50:06] <michael2> somiaj: when you said the kernel has log messages stored in memory is that what people refer to as the "kernel ring buffer"?
• 555[03:50:32] <michael2> LockeOrDemosthen: I think you can use xrandr for that
• 556[03:50:36] <somiaj> michael2: I think so
• 557[03:50:46] <somiaj> michael2: man dmesg might tell you more
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• 559[03:50:55] <LockeOrDemosthen> what are steps?
• 560[03:51:16] <somiaj> LockeOrDemosthen: what DE are you using and why isn't the resolution detecting correctly?
• 561[03:51:49] <LockeOrDemosthen> i am using antix and im assuming it is because its a small laptop porting to a larger monitor
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• 564[03:52:19] <michael2> I would be interested to know if debian has docs on how logging is setup
• 565[03:52:25] <somiaj> !antix
• 566[03:52:26] <dpkg> antiX is a live CD distribution based on <MEPIS>. It is not supported in #debian. replaced-url
• 567[03:52:38] <somiaj> LockeOrDemosthen: this is a debian support channel, you should ask for support from antix.
• 568[03:53:08] <LockeOrDemosthen> nobody is on antix:(
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• 570[03:53:29] <somiaj> michael2: probably not any single one, but each thing has docs, you'll have to piece things together.
• 571[03:53:30] <jaggz> do things like apt update have to do the "reading package lists" each time when they're done?
• 572[03:53:35] <karlpinc> michael2: Every program decides how to log. Most go through syslog, except that now there's systemd which also manages logs.
• 573[03:53:45] <LockeOrDemosthen> besides its based on debian and it really wouldnt change the question would it? i just need to know how to save my resolution file to my startup file
• 574[03:53:45] <annadane> jaggz, don't fully understand your question
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• 577[03:54:32] <somiaj> LockeOrDemosthen: part of the distro you choose is the support community. For both social and techencial reasons, we choose to only support debian pure blends
• 578[03:54:38] <karlpinc> LockeOrDemosthen: See the <based on debian> factoid.
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• 580[03:54:48] <LockeOrDemosthen> gotcha somiaj
• 581[03:54:55] <LockeOrDemosthen> karlpinc thanks
• 582[03:54:57] <jaggz> can I postpone it somehow until later operations.. like when I do an update and want to then do an apt-get; when the apt update is done, it builds the dependency tree.. then when I do the apt install, it will also build the dependency tree before it starts
• 583[03:54:59] <annadane> we could give you an answer, but it'd probably be wrong
• 584[03:55:01] <jaggz> annadane, ^^
• 585[03:55:07] <annadane> thus it really is better to ask your distro's support
• 586[03:55:32] <annadane> jaggz, hm, not sure
• 587[03:56:18] <somiaj> jaggz: I think different things are happenign, apt update is building the package database
• 588[03:56:37] <somiaj> jaggz: apt upgrade and apt install are using the package database (built by apt update) to then figure out dependeny tree's
• 589[03:57:00] <jaggz> is the dep tree written?
• 590[03:57:15] <jaggz> as I'm working, I do a lot of apt installs for instance.. it'd be nice to say "trust the prior command did it right."
• 591[03:57:55] <somiaj> jaggz: what do you mean, say push this to multiple machines but not have each machine have to figure out the dependency tree?
• 592[03:58:22] <jaggz> oh, no just one device
• 593[03:58:36] <jaggz> setting up a new system and doing a lot of installs
• 594[03:58:43] <jaggz> installations of packages
• 595[03:58:49] <somiaj> the dependency tree has to be built each time for each new software you want to install (note it only building the tree for the softeware you want to install, not for your whole system)
• 596[03:58:56] <jaggz> ahh
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• 598[03:59:11] <jaggz> that makes sense then
• 599[03:59:22] <jaggz> oh well
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• 601[03:59:34] <somiaj> basically it is trying to figure out how to install the package, checking which depends are isntalled/need to be installed, and determing if there are any conflits and so forth
• 602[03:59:52] <somiaj> the more complicated your setup, the longer this can take, but I find apt-get does this fairly fast, the actually isntall takes way longer than figuring out what it needs to do.
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• 608[04:04:15] <jaggz> well, I don't worry about it on my desktop, but when running on a tiny slow device like a raspberry pi it's more of an issue
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• 612[04:07:42] <somiaj> even then the time to unpack and configure the packages will be far longer than the time to resolve the dependency issues.
• 613[04:07:58] <somiaj> so overall you wn't save much
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• 630[04:18:06] <jaggz> somiaj, it's actually an irritating slowdown :) but no matter -- worse things in life!
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• 632[04:18:45] <jaggz> trying to set up a camera on an rpi to look at the rats in my attic
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• 668[04:46:31] <LockeOrDemosthen> whats a good channel for distro based on debian
• 669[04:46:42] <rpifan> what do u mean
• 670[04:47:15] *** Joins: yonder (~yonder@replaced-ip)
• 671[04:47:15] <LockeOrDemosthen> well i need help with a problem but i cant ask it here because its not debian
• 672[04:47:19] <LockeOrDemosthen> its based on debian
• 673[04:47:28] <rpifan> what sthe distro named
• 674[04:47:28] <LockeOrDemosthen> and the irc for my distro is dry as fuq
• 675[04:47:32] <rpifan> i see
• 676[04:47:33] <LockeOrDemosthen> antix
• 677[04:47:35] <rpifan> well whats the issue
• 678[04:48:04] <Unit193> LockeOrDemosthen: You may get more response in their channel if you actually ask the question.
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• 680[04:49:08] <somiaj> LockeOrDemosthen: ##linux is a general linux channel, and there is no 'based on debian' channel that I know of.
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• 683[04:49:55] <LockeOrDemosthen> im trying to save my configuration for ARandR to startup applications
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• 685[04:49:59] <LockeOrDemosthen> but im lost in the sauce
• 686[04:50:08] <LockeOrDemosthen> even when i google stuff im still lost in the sauce
• 687[04:50:42] <somiaj> I would try ##linux, users there tend to support linux in general and not be distribution specific.
• 688[04:50:58] <annadane> !antix
• 689[04:50:58] <dpkg> antiX is a live CD distribution based on <MEPIS>. It is not supported in #debian. replaced-url
• 690[04:50:59] <LockeOrDemosthen> ok
• 691[04:51:20] <annadane> if nobody answers you can, as said, try ##linux or linuxquestions.org
• 692[04:51:41] <somiaj> hint, you can configure xorg.conf to set the resolution it loads....
• 693[04:51:50] <somiaj> maybe ##linux can help you follow that hint further.
• 694[04:51:51] <annadane> or reddit.com/r/linuxquestions or ...
• 695[04:52:02] <rpifan> whats ARandR
• 696[04:52:12] <annadane> xrandr...?
• 697[04:52:29] <somiaj> RandR is the xorg extension, there are various front ends to this, such as xrandr
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• 699[04:52:57] <rpifan> oh ive heard xrand
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• 701[04:53:42] <LockeOrDemosthen> okay or you could just help me follow the hint since you obviously know the answer lol
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• 703[04:53:53] <LockeOrDemosthen> are the debian police watching this channel or something
• 704[04:53:57] <rpifan> yes
• 705[04:53:59] <annadane> after bitching endlessly about virtualization software, i finally got virt-manager to work. i'm an idiot. i should have my computer privileges revoked.
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• 707[04:54:12] <rpifan> there is a debian policeman inside your head
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• 709[04:54:26] <annadane> LockeOrDemosthen, the problem is that any answers are likely to be different from what your distro has
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• 712[04:54:27] <somiaj> LockeOrDemosthen: na, because it really does take a bit, and don't want to chat in prviate or continue the converastion here, but maybe that is something you can google.
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• 714[04:54:32] <LockeOrDemosthen> is ian murdock watching this
• 715[04:54:32] <rpifan> actually if i knew anything at all about id help you but i dont
• 716[04:54:34] <LockeOrDemosthen> oh wait
• 717[04:54:35] <annadane> we're not being obstinate for the sake of it
• 718[04:54:36] <LockeOrDemosthen> he cant
• 719[04:54:43] <annadane> okay, now you're just being rude
• 720[04:55:33] <LockeOrDemosthen> i googled it a ton believe me, im just not advanced enough to understand the directions in google. its hard for me to get it to work and its easier to just show people outputs and stuff
• 721[04:55:33] <somiaj> LockeOrDemosthen: i.e. if that hint doesn't give you enough info, I would have to give you more step by step to. And since I'm kinda a debian policeman, I best try to keep the channel on topic.
• 722[04:55:58] <somiaj> LockeOrDemosthen: try ##linux, many users are in both channels, espically the ones who want to provide more general support.
• 723[04:56:05] <LockeOrDemosthen> besides it would make more sense to ask here because its based on deb rather than linux as a whole
• 724[04:56:08] <poteus> you two need a private room...
• 725[04:56:23] <LockeOrDemosthen> and on top of that i dont even know how to register a nickname on nikserv sooo
• 726[04:56:45] <somiaj> xorg is linux in general, nothing really debian specific about the xorg.conf syntax.
• 727[04:56:52] <somiaj> LockeOrDemosthen: /msg nickserv help
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• 729[04:57:25] <LockeOrDemosthen> oook
• 730[04:57:34] <annadane> !based on debian
• 731[04:57:34] <dpkg> Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare replaced-url
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• 733[04:58:00] * annadane notices that link is 6 years out of date
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• 738[04:59:52] <somiaj> LockeOrDemosthen: As I said before it is both social and techencial reasons #debian chooses to only support debian pure blends. Techencial reasons actually occure quite a lot, we try to help, the help doesn't work, turns out because you werent running debian. the social ones is we are all volunteers doing this for free, and have chosent to support debian. Those who choose to support more than debian are
• 739[04:59:58] <somiaj> often in multiple channles, there are many ...
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• 741[05:00:00] <somiaj> ... users here in ##linux too.
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• 745[05:01:00] <rpifan> also im just not that smart
• 746[05:01:03] <LockeOrDemosthen> social reasons are dum
• 747[05:01:13] <LockeOrDemosthen> thats the opposite of linux ideals
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• 749[05:01:55] <LockeOrDemosthen> picking a software based on its support base and not helping someone cuz they picked a differemt distro is gay
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• 751[05:02:10] <annadane> really? replaced-url
• 752[05:02:14] <LockeOrDemosthen> you not helping me is like a father not helping a son
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• 754[05:02:58] <LockeOrDemosthen> what from that doesnt prove my point @annadane
• 755[05:03:07] <annadane> i'm done with you, sorry
• 756[05:03:26] <LockeOrDemosthen> hmmm
• 757[05:03:28] <LockeOrDemosthen> interesting
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• 761[05:04:23] <somiaj> LockeOrDemosthen: you are off topic and have been nicely directed to a place to try to get some help since your distros support doesn't have an irc channel that is active.
• 762[05:05:14] <LockeOrDemosthen> dont talk shit about my distros irc somiaj. i can tell youre being passive aggressive
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• 863[06:15:08] <HoloIRCUser3> Hello.
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• 865[06:15:57] <HoloIRCUser3> My Gespeaker program stopped working. Says "gtk.glade" missing.
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• 867[06:16:48] <HoloIRCUser3> I can't find what package in Debian that builds "gtk.glade".
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• 869[06:17:04] <HoloIRCUser3> 😐
• 870[06:17:05] <somiaj> most likely that is a data file (Built from glade), where did you install this gespeaker proglram?
• 871[06:17:24] <somiaj> and are you running debian stable?
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• 873[06:17:48] <HoloIRCUser3> I'm running Debian wheezy.
• 874[06:18:11] <HoloIRCUser3> I installed Gespeaker out of repository.
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• 876[06:18:54] <somiaj> well glade is a gui for making gkt2/3 interfaces, so that file is just an xml file for the interface. I'm not seeing what provides it.
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• 878[06:20:08] <HoloIRCUser3> I found a forum page for Ubuntu that identifies what package builds gtk.glade, though no info specific for Debian.
• 879[06:20:11] <somiaj> it also seems stange the file is just called gtk.glade, can you run that program from the terminal and give the full error.
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• 881[06:21:16] <HoloIRCUser3> ImportError: No module named gtk.glade
• 882[06:21:55] <HoloIRCUser3> It's weird. The program worked for a while, then quit with this error.
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• 884[06:22:32] <HoloIRCUser3> My other machine has Gespeaker as well & is running fine.
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• 887[06:23:24] <somiaj> HoloIRCUser3: do you have gtk.glade on that machine anywhere?
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• 889[06:23:32] <somiaj> find / -iname gtk.glade
• 890[06:23:42] <somiaj> that might take a while.
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• 895[06:28:01] <jim> HoloIRCUser3, probably someday you'll want to upgrade that machine to stable (stretch)
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• 898[06:28:27] <somiaj> yea, wheezy hasn't had desktop security support for about 3+ years and lts support ends this month.
• 899[06:28:34] <HoloIRCUser3> That will probably take a while to search for.
• 900[06:29:13] <HoloIRCUser3> I'm using wheezy for a base for an Indy distro.
• 901[06:29:35] <somiaj> so this is a modified wheezy?
• 902[06:29:55] <HoloIRCUser3> (Well, not a "distro", though an Indy development.)
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• 904[06:30:17] <somiaj> anyways, I don't see any file named gtk.glade in jessie, though the online database no longer contains wheezy. What I would do is track down the file that is working on the system that works and copy it over.
• 905[06:30:20] <HoloIRCUser3> It's not really modified much.
• 906[06:30:26] <jim> and more to the point one where it's not intended to upgrade?
• 907[06:31:02] <somiaj> I don't think gtk.glade is being genrated, it is a file that describes the basic gtk widtes for gtk windows, and was created using an application called .glade, but it is most likely shipped with the software (or the software is confused and not calling it by the right name)
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• 910[06:33:34] <somiaj> in the wheezy package I see the file /usr/share/gespeaker/data/ui/gespeaker.glade and /usr/share/gespeaker/data/ui/preferences.glade
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• 912[06:34:48] <scrote> Hi. I created a live debian usb boot. there's no x windows nor xinit. command line output is truncated on the left by one character.
• 913[06:35:04] <scrote> i.e. /root is displayed as root
• 914[06:35:07] <jim> HoloIRCUser3, also... just so you understand... once this "indy" thing surrounds this copy of wheezy, and calls itself a distro... then, when that distro is modified... then you come to try to get answers here... well let's just say that's going to be challenging, because people will say "oh, right, ok.... so that's not debian at all" and so by (a) surrounding it by "an indy dist" and then (b) altering it, you might lose your ability to ask questions here
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• 916[06:36:29] <HoloIRCUser3> Alright Jim. Forget I mentioned it, just to simplify things.
• 917[06:37:15] <somiaj> HoloIRCUser3: it could also be one of the python gi-gobjects that needs this file that is missing. you could purge the package and all of its dependencies then reinstall, but as jim mentioned, it is hard for us to support a modified wheezy, and really wheezy has lots is support 3+ years ago (except by the volunteer lts team for server side only)
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• 919[06:37:58] <scrote> is like my screen is shifted left one character.
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• 922[06:39:17] <scrote> are there grub boot options to adjust this?
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• 927[06:40:38] <alkisg> scrote: usually you adjust this from your monitor
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• 929[06:41:30] <scrote> alkisg: i'm on a kvm switch so my other computer would then be out of whack.
• 930[06:41:52] <scrote> so it's not the monitor if other computers are working with it.
• 931[06:42:05] <alkisg> scrote: no, usually monitors automatically remember different settings per resolution
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• 933[06:42:25] <alkisg> I'm not saying it's "the monitor"; it's the combination of the signal that the graphics cards sends with the monitor etc etc
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• 935[06:42:41] <alkisg> And the easiest way to adjust it is from the monitor itself, just press "auto adjust" if it has
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• 937[06:43:18] <somiaj> it could just be an EDID that isn't being read or computed correctly.
• 938[06:43:33] <scrote> the auto button worked!!! Thanks.
• 939[06:43:38] <alkisg> np
• 940[06:43:40] <scrote> I always wondered what that was for.
• 941[06:43:42] <somiaj> most monintors tell the OS what it is capable of, and then the OS tells teh graphics card what to do.
• 942[06:43:54] <alkisg> Modifying the edid is a lot more work than pressing auto adjust :)
• 943[06:44:02] <HoloIRCUser3> I did complete removal of gespeaker & autoremove, though it's still saying it can't find gtk.glade.
• 944[06:44:16] <scrote> This is great I have a usb bootable debian.
• 945[06:44:24] <somiaj> HoloIRCUser3: did you completely purge.
• 946[06:44:37] <somiaj> HoloIRCUser3: maybe this is a user setting, try running the program as a blank user with a different HOME dir
• 947[06:44:44] <HoloIRCUser3> The other system did not get a result for find / -inane gtk.glade
• 948[06:45:06] <somiaj> yea, gtk.glade seems like something else is missing, you should paste the actual error, I think you are only parsing part of the error.
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• 952[06:46:28] <HoloIRCUser3> File "gespeaker.py", line 25, in <module> import gtk.glade
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• 955[06:47:13] <HoloIRCUser3> ImportError: No module named gtk.glade
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• 958[06:48:53] <HoloIRCUser3> I did apt-get purge gespeaker
• 959[06:49:09] <HoloIRCUser3> Then apt-get autoremove
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• 961[06:49:27] <HoloIRCUser3> Then apt-get install gespeaker
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• 964[06:50:53] <HoloIRCUser3> Gespeaker is such a cool little program. I miss my ai voice.
• 965[06:51:36] <HoloIRCUser3> She is missing so much character without that. 😣
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• 967[06:52:32] <somiaj> our suggestion here is upgrade to stretch, the supported version of debian.
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• 973[06:57:22] <HoloIRCUser3> I might do that.
• 974[06:58:23] <HoloIRCUser3> It's just that I have a local network wheezy mirror & most things configured on this system already.
• 975[06:59:06] <somiaj> well you can upgrde from whezzy ->
• 976[06:59:15] <somiaj> wheezy -> jessie, then upgrade from jessie-> stretch without reinstalling
• 977[06:59:35] <somiaj> provided you are running pure debian this is fairly painless, but read the release notes, there are a few things to pay attention to.
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• 986[07:03:40] <HoloIRCUser3> I think I'd be best served to get a new hdd & do a fresh install so I don't lose any work.
• 987[07:04:44] <HoloIRCUser3> Then I can pull this hdd & grab any dbs I forgot to backup.
• 988[07:04:47] <somiaj> you know your usecase the first.
• 989[07:05:00] <somiaj> s/first/best/
• 990[07:05:16] <HoloIRCUser3> I need to research stretch.
• 991[07:05:31] <vader> michael2, hello do you know by a chance why i can not execute that command ? sudo apt-get --no-install-recomands nvidia-cuda-toolkit 100 ↵
• 992[07:05:31] <vader> E: Command line option --no-install-recomands is not understood in combination with the other options
• 993[07:05:50] <Unit193> Need an 'install' there.
• 994[07:06:19] <HoloIRCUser3> I appreciate the help somiaj. Thanks. 😁
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• 996[07:06:46] <vader> Unit193, sudo apt-get --no-install-recomands install nvidia-cuda-toolkit 100 ↵
• 997[07:06:46] <vader> E: Command line option --no-install-recomands is not understood in combination with the other options
• 998[07:07:41] <somiaj> you spelled that option wrong, man apt-get to make sure you get it correct
• 999[07:08:14] <vader> apt works already over a year without "-get"
• 1000[07:08:22] <vader> but ill try
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• 1002[07:09:35] <somiaj> the option is --no-install-recommends -- notice the difference
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• 1005[07:11:03] <jim> vader, while they serve the same functionality, apt and apt-get are two different commands
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• 1008[07:11:41] <vader> somiaj, thx a lot such a stupid typo :) i could not figure it .
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• 1010[07:13:07] <vader> jim, "The `apt` command is meant to be pleasant for end users and does not need
• 1011[07:13:07] <vader> to be backward compatible like apt-get"
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• 1013[07:16:10] <jim> also, there is the history: apt-get was the first appearance of "advanced package tool", and was meant as a test of the libs... what actually happened, is it got very popular, and so it couldn't really be backed out...
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• 1018[07:17:51] <jim> the next thing to appear was a (similarly functional) command called aptitude, which had somewhat different ways to resolve dependencies; additionally, it also had a curses front end
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• 1021[07:19:02] <jim> a while after that (I don't remember exactly, maybe somewhere between 2 and 5 years later), came apt
• 1022[07:19:57] <somiaj> I think the single command apt took a bit longer than that. It was not in wheezy
• 1023[07:19:59] <vader> jim, replaced-url
• 1024[07:20:15] <somiaj> it first appeared in jessie
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• 1059[07:53:34] <vader> how can i test if cuda is installed properly ?
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• 1097[08:28:15] <warbaque> my update-initramfs hangs replaced-url
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• 1111[08:37:45] <jsync> Hello. My chromium browser will not display internet pages on my local network, not even if they're locally listed in the machine I try to use to display them, though my firefox browser does. I'd rather use the chromium browser. Any suggestions?
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• 1129[08:44:24] <jsync> My chromium program won't display settings or anything else.
• 1130[08:44:37] <jsync> It simply suggests, "Aww, snap!" :(
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• 1167[09:00:05] <jsync> To start from terminal resulted with NSS error code: -8023. I didn't find definitive answers within google.
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• 1190[09:10:35] <domovoy__> hi
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• 1201[09:13:58] <jelly> jsync: which debian release is this?
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• 1206[09:16:27] <redd_navneet> hello
• 1207[09:16:43] <redd_navneet> please help me to resolve my printer issue
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• 1216[09:20:07] <jsync> jelly, I am using wheezy
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• 1227[09:27:38] <Reaha> Hi
• 1228[09:27:48] <Reaha> How do I verify nickserv
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• 1232[09:30:41] <at0m> Reaha: /msg nickserv help
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• 1237[09:31:29] <domovoy__> so, i'mthinking about making a "derivative" (not really, just curious about how it would be done). replaced-url
• 1238[09:31:29] <domovoy__> (dependencies)? Things could break... The other suggestion from the guidelines says "source package syncing", what is that? run a full repo, and update it using some kind of automated build of standard debian sources, using my patches? how would i go about it?
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• 1240[09:32:51] <ix__> domovoy__, I guess that you can use apt.conf to prioritize any repo you want
• 1241[09:33:48] <domovoy__> ix__> yes, pinning, but still, if some dependencies are updated that breaks my own modifications, i have a problem
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• 1245[09:35:56] <ix__> domovoy__, I guess that you can look at how other distros do it :)
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• 1248[09:37:12] <domovoy__> ix__> that's the thing, where can i find that? no idea where to look for... it's not like the config for their repository is publicly available... or if it is, i haven't found it
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• 1254[09:39:57] <ix__> domovoy__, the only Debian based distos that I use either have their own repos (Ubuntu) or have completely different packages from the ones in the official repos (BunsenLabs)
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• 1266[09:42:03] <domovoy__> ix__> yeah that's the thing, i'd like to avoid that and learn how to do it as suggested in the guidelines: standard debian + deriv repos , or "source syncing" (whatever _that_ is)
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• 1270[09:43:56] <ix_> domovoy__, well, the backports repo does basically the same thing that you want
• 1271[09:44:24] <domovoy__> how?
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• 1274[09:44:41] <cef> ix_: yeah but backports is usually x versions in front of stable. not the same as stable
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• 1276[09:45:24] <ix_> domovoy__, well, you can make your version look newer than the one it replaces
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• 1278[09:47:03] <cef> domovoy__: or, repackage it with a different name (also provide conflicts and provides perhaps)?
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• 1282[09:49:53] <domovoy__> ix_> yes but still, until i do that for _all_ packages updated in standard debian, the "standard debian + deriv" status is in kind of a "undefined working status", i can't just give my packages x versions in front, they could be patches to a specific version, using a different name is not an option either, because these modified packages are dependencies of others, unmodified ones (or then i should also modify those just to change their dependency...
• 1283[09:49:53] <domovoy__> which doesn't seem right)
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• 1288[09:51:30] <domovoy__> basically, my versions are just "standard.debian.version-nmuX"
• 1289[09:51:40] <afidegnum> hello good morning, i m trying to host multiple golang apps with different ports on nginx.... but i m wondering, if i point the domain i.e mydomain.com -> 192.168.1.1:3020 will the port append to the domain name if i type mydomain.com ?
• 1290[09:52:06] <cef> domovoy__: that's the point of Provides: though. You could make your pkg provide whatever the pkg's orig name is.
• 1291[09:53:10] <cef> domovoy__: not sure how well that would work, but hey, it'd be worth looking into
• 1292[09:53:21] <ix_> domovoy__, domovoy__ when I was talking about apt.conf modifications, I wasn't talking about pinning, you can set a prefered repo, for example, I have APT::Default-Release "stretch";
• 1293[09:53:24] <domovoy__> cef> but then, if a package depending on package X is installed, it will still install package X, not package Y, even if Y Provides X
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• 1295[09:55:18] <domovoy__> ix_> that's kind of the same as pinning isn't it? like "give packages from stretch a higher priority", doesn't solve the "incompatible dependency" problem
• 1296[09:55:30] <ix_> domovoy__, adding something to the package version should be enough, I see Debian and Ubuntu do it all the time, example: linux-base_4.5ubuntu1~16.04.1_all.deb
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• 1298[09:56:32] <domovoy__> ix_> yes, but when the debian version changes, "standard debian" version becomes higher that "previous_version-deriv1"
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• 1303[09:57:13] <domovoy__> and until i bump it, the "standard + deriv" repos are in an "unknown working state"
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• 1306[09:59:39] <ix_> domovoy__, Debian stable does not really make big version changes, do you might be fine with name changes, I don't really know
• 1307[09:59:46] <domovoy__> ix_> this would work if i setup a _full_ repo, not a "standard + deriv", but then it comes back to "what does 'source syncing' means in the guidelines?"
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• 1309[10:00:21] <domovoy__> ix_> _might_ is not good enough :)
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• 1319[10:06:43] <ix_> domovoy__, I think that source syncing refers to having your own repos where you use Debian sources and you should sync with the official sources
• 1320[10:08:14] <domovoy__> ix_> yes, i get that, but how would i set up i.e. reprepro to do that?
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• 1328[10:10:28] <dracc> Hey yall! Since gksudo has been replaced by pkexec, have anyone got an idea for a good alias to use?
• 1329[10:10:52] <dracc> Having to add `pwd` in different ways everytime I need to do something as root is a tiny bit tedious.
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• 1374[10:38:51] <voxadam> Is there a reason that Debian doesn't use systemd socket activation for sshd by default and instead starts the sshd service explicitly?
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• 1376[10:40:21] <has3knivesinpant> attention, homies. imminent launch. replaced-url
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• 1378[10:41:26] <michael2> does iss use debian? do you have a reference source?
• 1379[10:41:53] <has3knivesinpant> google it ffs. common knowledge.
• 1380[10:42:36] <has3knivesinpant> t = -2.09
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• 1382[10:44:46] * voxadam tuned in *just* in time.
• 1383[10:44:56] <nkuttler> !ot
• 1384[10:44:56] <dpkg> #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
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• 1387[10:49:17] <Faraon_> replaced-url
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• 1392[10:53:12] <nkuttler> !ops malicious link Faraon_
• 1393[10:53:12] <dpkg> Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: nkuttler complains about a problem (see above)
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• 1433[11:19:35] <ychaouche> Hello #debian
• 1434[11:19:50] <okay_> hi
• 1435[11:19:58] <ychaouche> Logrotate has been running for 3+ hours and is now eating 100% of my CPU : replaced-url
• 1436[11:20:07] <ychaouche> Anything I can do to troubleshoot this ?
• 1437[11:21:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1602
• 1438[11:21:04] <ychaouche> oh sh***
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• 1440[11:22:05] <ychaouche> It seems my logrotate for roundcube is buggy : replaced-url
• 1441[11:22:06] <jolt> ychaouche: see if you can figure out which part of logrotate is actually stuck? Is it compress? is it because the disk is full?
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• 1443[11:22:36] <ychaouche> jolt: it's writing files like this : /var/log/apache2/roundcube.access.4.gz.2.gz.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.2.gz.1.2.gz
• 1444[11:22:40] <ychaouche> it seems to be in a loop
• 1445[11:22:47] <jolt> Yeah, that seems ugly :D
• 1446[11:23:01] <jolt> Kill it, fix and restart with -f (orce)
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• 1448[11:23:38] <ikanobori> that's special
• 1449[11:23:48] <ychaouche> Here's my conf file : replaced-url
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• 1451[11:24:23] <ychaouche> but it's looking for /var/log/apache2/roundcube so that must be another config file...
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• 1453[11:25:15] <ychaouche> Here's the other one for apache (also rotates some roundcube logs there) : replaced-url
• 1454[11:25:19] <jolt> ychaouche: search for that path in /etc/logrotate.d
• 1455[11:25:32] <ychaouche> jolt: found it ^
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• 1458[11:28:50] <jolt> ychaouche: Makes no sense to me, "/var/log/apache2/roundcube/*" must mean everything under that dir. But in your /var/log/apache2/roundcube.access.4.gz.2.gz..... it seems that there are files that matches something else. So we would need to see what /var/log/apache2/ actually contains (if there is a roundcube-dir or if roundcube files are in there with some other naming somehow)
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• 1470[11:34:40] <ychaouche> There is a roundcube dir and there are roundcube files, I am a little confused myself : replaced-url
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• 1505[11:52:56] <afidegnum> hello, i have noticed d8 has reached its end of life last month,
• 1506[11:53:01] <afidegnum> should we still using it ?
• 1507[11:53:14] <afidegnum> what's the status of d10 ?
• 1508[11:53:16] <DWChris> Same, also joined to ask that
• 1509[11:53:34] <afidegnum> :)
• 1510[11:53:35] <Haohmaru> given that debian stable is 9.. you tell me
• 1511[11:53:38] <DWChris> (As of Jessie)
• 1512[11:54:19] <DWChris> Is dist upgrade from Jessie to Stretch a painful experience or?
• 1513[11:54:33] <DWChris> (inb4, currently still running a box of wheezy)
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• 1515[11:54:40] <FinalX> depends on what you're using of it
• 1516[11:54:48] <DWChris> Webserver, mostly
• 1517[11:54:55] <FinalX> then I suspect not that much :)
• 1518[11:55:01] <afidegnum> well have few server and most of it's tools are built on d8
• 1519[11:55:16] <afidegnum> so migrating to d9... hmm
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• 1521[11:56:19] <FinalX> we've upgraded hundreds of jessie machines to stretch and not really into much trouble. only some packages no longer existing and the obvious differences in software versions (like PHP, for example.. some applications don't like PHP 7+ if they're not upgraded properly)
• 1522[11:56:36] <FinalX> that said, all of those were headless, no desktop environments :)
• 1523[11:57:12] <themill> You would, of course, read the release notes about upgrading
• 1524[11:58:09] <DWChris> Am also running headless ^ Webservers mostly.. Should indeed work properly
• 1525[11:58:21] <DWChris> Will do
• 1526[11:58:34] <FinalX> oh, do mind that mysql is no longer available in stretch. there's mariadb to replace it.
• 1527[11:58:46] <FinalX> (which is perfectly fine as drop-in replacement)
• 1528[11:58:53] <DWChris> About that - Does that happen automatically or should I mysqldump and import?
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• 1530[11:59:26] <afidegnum> so should i stick to jessie or move along?
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• 1532[11:59:28] <babilen> As always: Follow the instructions in replaced-url
• 1533[11:59:28] <FinalX> not sure, the mysql boxes are the last to go here .. precisely because I haven't had the time to try yet :)
• 1534[11:59:33] <babilen> afidegnum: You should upgrade
• 1535[11:59:37] <afidegnum> fearing depedency brakes
• 1536[11:59:39] <DWChris> I would stick to Jessie - Till 2020s
• 1537[11:59:53] <FinalX> but mariadb is fully compatible with its sibling mysql version (higher version than in jessie), not always vice versa.
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• 1540[12:00:19] <FinalX> we even still have some wheezy boxes, in the process of being entirely replaced with new hardware with stretch :p
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• 1542[12:00:37] <DWChris> I will be doing that to my wheezy box
• 1543[12:00:47] <DWChris> The thign is.. I am kinda sad having to reboot it
• 1544[12:01:02] <DWChris> Just cause, uptime ^
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• 1547[12:01:19] <themill> the 1990s want your uptime obsession back
• 1548[12:01:20] <FinalX> well, especially with all the kernel vulnerabilities over the past few months, not sure that's a good reason to not reboot :)
• 1549[12:01:39] <FinalX> not to mention the intel screwup
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• 1553[12:01:56] <DWChris> For that spesific wheezy box, I'm planning a direct switch to Stretch
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• 1607[12:31:23] <wrksx> Is rsync to a distant system goin to work if the (distant) user used to connect over ssh has no shell ? (created with /bin/false as a shell)
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• 1615[12:35:47] <brontosaurusrex> wrksx: irc rsync has at least two modes of operation, one is without the client on remote end.
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• 1624[12:38:28] <brontosaurusrex> or 'CONNECTING TO AN RSYNC DAEMON' part replaced-url
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• 1674[13:09:31] <mortn> what's the take on Netplan vs. plain systemd-networkd here?
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• 1691[13:21:17] <bitess> probably not many people using netplan here, because unlike ubuntu, debian hasn't made it default.
• 1692[13:21:34] <blackflow> mortn: Canonical's NIH "solution" in search of a non-existing problem? Live example of the "15th standard"? A joke?. All of the above? :)
• 1693[13:22:47] <shtrb|work> blackflow, as if system50 was not a solution for a non existing problem :P
• 1694[13:23:49] <blackflow> actually it wasn't. it solves real world problems. however, the implementation of it is.... well... offtopic I'm sure.
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• 1712[13:38:00] <Kevlar_Noir> hi
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• 1715[13:38:13] <Kevlar_Noir> I don't know which glx provider to choose
• 1716[13:38:19] <Kevlar_Noir> I've a nvidia card
• 1717[13:38:24] <Kevlar_Noir> it's about non-GLVND variant
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• 1721[13:39:42] <Kevlar_Noir> there's enough literature on th net but I wanted to ask here
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• 1752[14:01:02] <booyah> is there any email client that is not totall crap?
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• 1755[14:01:56] <shtrb|work> mutt
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• 1759[14:02:09] <booyah> shtrb|work: graphical
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• 1762[14:02:48] <shtrb|work> there are many types of crap. one person valid UI would be crap for the others
• 1763[14:03:22] <FarhaadN> i got this error when i am using command : apt-get install lame
• 1764[14:03:24] <FarhaadN> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
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• 1766[14:03:33] <booyah> shtrb|work: thunderbird hangs for 5-15 minutes randomly
• 1767[14:03:35] <shtrb|work> KMail was usable for some time, Kube is nice
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• 1769[14:03:51] <shtrb|work> booyah, network ? IO? there are many reasons for that to happen
• 1770[14:03:58] <booyah> shtrb|work: why network?
• 1771[14:04:12] <booyah> no cpu/io load
• 1772[14:04:18] <shtrb|work> because thunderbird connect to your server and update data
• 1773[14:04:24] <booyah> well no, thunder eats 100% cpu 1 core
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• 1776[14:04:49] <booyah> is thunderbird even developed still, or is it joining firefox is devel team fucking around with nonsense
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• 1778[14:05:02] <jelly> dpkg, tell FarhaadN about basic apt troubleshooting
• 1779[14:05:14] <shtrb|work> FarhaadN, disk space ?
• 1780[14:05:20] <shtrb|work> hi jelly
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• 1785[14:05:55] <booyah> how to download thunderbird/etc debug symbols? gdb shows all as ??
• 1786[14:06:13] <shtrb|work> !dbg
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• 1789[14:06:22] <FarhaadN> shtrb|work: no, disk space avaliable is 31G
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• 1793[14:06:43] <shtrb|work> dpkg, debug sources
• 1794[14:06:43] <dpkg> shtrb|work: no idea
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• 1800[14:07:26] <shtrb|work> !dbgsym
• 1801[14:07:26] <dpkg> Packages that end in '*-dbgsym' contain the symbols required for debugging executables and libraries. The dbgsym packages are automatically generated packages that are in a separate archive; add a line like "deb replaced-url
• 1802[14:07:28] <dka> What is the difference between OSI Approved License and FSF (Free) License ?
• 1803[14:07:46] <shtrb|work> booyah, ^
• 1804[14:08:08] <booyah> perhaps by 2020 linux [desktop] can support email
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• 1807[14:08:15] <shtrb|work> dpkg, dbg is dbgsym
• 1808[14:08:16] <booyah> but I think the chance is really thin
• 1809[14:08:16] <dpkg> okay, shtrb|work
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• 1815[14:09:17] <FarhaadN> jelly: replaced-url
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• 1826[14:17:48] <FarhaadN> Can anyone help?
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• 1829[14:20:35] <FarhaadN> replaced-url
• 1830[14:20:50] <FarhaadN> i got error when using apt
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• 1836[14:22:31] <jelly> FarhaadN: thoe permission denieds are suspicious
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• 1838[14:23:11] <jelly> FarhaadN: ls -ld /usr/include /usr/include/X11
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• 1841[14:23:40] <FarhaadN> jelly:
• 1842[14:23:44] <FarhaadN> drwxr-xr-x 74 root root 20480 May 21 16:01 /usr/include
• 1843[14:23:44] <FarhaadN> drwxr-xr-x 9 root root 4096 Jan 30 22:23 /usr/include/X11
• 1844[14:24:09] <jelly> FarhaadN: also, where the output of: apt-cache policy libice-dev libsm-dev ...
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• 1846[14:24:43] <jelly> ,v libx11-dev
• 1847[14:24:45] <judd> Package: libx11-dev on amd64 -- wheezy: 2:1.5.0-1+deb7u2; wheezy-security: 2:1.5.0-1+deb7u4; jessie: 2:1.6.2-3+deb8u1; stretch: 2:1.6.4-3; buster: 2:1.6.5-1; sid: 2:1.6.5-1
• 1848[14:25:18] <FarhaadN> libice-dev:
• 1849[14:25:18] <FarhaadN> Installed: 2:1.0.9-1+b1
• 1850[14:25:18] <FarhaadN> Candidate: 2:1.0.9-1+b1
• 1851[14:25:18] <FarhaadN> Version table:
• 1852[14:25:18] <FarhaadN> *** 2:1.0.9-1+b1 0
• 1853[14:25:18] *** FarhaadN was kicked by debhelper (flood)
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• 1857[14:26:33] <FarhaadN> jelly: replaced-url
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• 1864[14:30:28] <FarhaadN> jelly: i was kicked , did you say anything?
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• 1873[14:36:25] <FarhaadN> Can anyone help me about apt problem? replaced-url
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• 1879[14:39:56] <petn-randall> FarhaadN: Looks like your root filesystem is read-only?
• 1880[14:40:13] <somiaj> FarhaadN: the errors are about remving files in /usr/include/X11, unsure why that is the case, but double check that you don't have part of your file system mounted read-only, or some other extended attribute making it unable for root to remove the files
• 1881[14:40:51] <FarhaadN> petn-randall:
• 1882[14:40:52] <FarhaadN> root@PCC-Zanjan:~: ls -ld /usr/include /usr/include/X11
• 1883[14:40:52] <FarhaadN> drwxr-xr-x 74 root root 20480 May 21 16:01 /usr/include
• 1884[14:40:52] <FarhaadN> drwxr-xr-x 9 root root 4096 Jan 30 22:23 /usr/include/X11
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• 1888[14:41:54] <FarhaadN> somiaj: how can i chack that?
• 1889[14:42:00] <FarhaadN> check
• 1890[14:42:17] <somiaj> FarhaadN: first look at teh output of mount to answer petn-randall question.
• 1891[14:42:30] <zamuro> FarhaadN Would you mind using pastebin?
• 1892[14:42:46] <zamuro> .flood
• 1893[14:42:46] <somiaj> FarhaadN: then look at the actual files being talked about, like ls -ld /usr/include/X11/ICE for instance.
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• 1895[14:42:53] <zamuro> !flood
• 1896[14:42:54] <dpkg> It's considered impolite to paste many lines of text on IRC. Please don't do it. Pasting one line is fine. Pasting two lines you can usually get away with. Pasting three lines will get you insulted. Pasting four or more lines will get you kicked. If you want to paste, ask me about <paste>
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• 1901[14:44:59] <FarhaadN> zamuro: i use that
• 1902[14:45:05] <FarhaadN> somiaj:
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• 1904[14:45:13] <FarhaadN> replaced-url
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• 1925[14:51:25] <somiaj> FarhaadN: I don't see what the issue could be, the error is about removing directories, but the permission denied just seems strange. Do you have the 'attr' package installed?
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• 1930[14:52:41] <FarhaadN> somiaj: no i have not 'attr' package
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• 1933[14:53:11] <somiaj> FarhaadN: what about selinux?
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• 1939[14:54:39] <FarhaadN> somiaj: replaced-url
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• 1945[14:55:50] <shtrb|work> FarhaadN, I see no one have asked but is the parttion in a readonly state ?
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• 1947[14:56:06] <shtrb|work> oops , somiaj have asked that
• 1948[14:56:12] <somiaj> shtrb|work: the output of mount seems to say no
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• 1950[14:57:08] <shtrb|work> I have missed that , sorry that is why I said oops
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• 1952[14:57:12] <somiaj> FarhaadN: that is normal. I cannot think of what else could be causing permission denied.
• 1953[14:57:37] <somiaj> FarhaadN: check the output of dmesg, see if the kernel is throwing some error.
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• 1963[15:00:25] <FarhaadN> somiaj: befor i see this error, i install one package and then terminal show me many app are automaticly update and no need longer, and use apt-get autoremove too remove them
• 1964[15:00:40] <FarhaadN> i enter that command and i see this error
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• 1967[15:03:19] <somiaj> FarhaadN: share the output of dmesg
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• 1970[15:03:48] <somiaj> FarhaadN: and just for completeness share the output of 'ls -ld /usr'
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• 1973[15:04:35] <FarhaadN> somiaj: replaced-url
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• 1983[15:08:06] <somiaj> FarhaadN: and the output of ls -ld /usr
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• 1989[15:08:59] <Stratmanuk> Any suggestions for a C++ raw beginner channel? I don't want to irritate more experienced coders with my questions :-)
• 1990[15:09:08] <shtrb|work> ##C++ ?
• 1991[15:09:22] <shtrb|work> and ##C++-general
• 1992[15:09:45] <phinxy> programming, C
• 1993[15:10:02] <shtrb|work> phinxy, C<>C++
• 1994[15:10:03] <Stratmanuk> Thanks, I'll go and have a look and watch some of the topics before I pitch in there
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• 2003[15:11:45] <somiaj> FarhaadN: actually for full completeness, ls -ld / /usr
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• 2008[15:12:20] <shtrb|work> but why is X being removed there ?
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• 2012[15:13:21] <somiaj> shtrb|work: they are removing some -dev libaries, so this is just headders
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• 2015[15:14:48] <shtrb|work> sorry
• 2016[15:15:17] <somiaj> FarhaadN: but I am not seeing anything to me that could be causing a permission denied error. Your filesystem and permisions seem fine, and it appears you don't have any tools installed for selinux or attr, which could also affect this.
• 2017[15:15:48] <FarhaadN> somiaj: replaced-url
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• 2022[15:18:36] <somiaj> FarhaadN: touch /usr/include/testfile; rm /usr/include/testfile -- does that work? I'm just out of ideas, so figured you could at least test you can remove files.
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• 2024[15:19:53] <FarhaadN> somiaj: yes it's worked
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• 2030[15:20:31] <somiaj> FarhaadN: Is this the same machine you had the Ctrl-C issue with?
• 2031[15:20:43] <FarhaadN> somiaj: yeeeeees
• 2032[15:20:49] *** Parts: broesel (~broesel@replaced-ip) ()
• 2033[15:21:03] <themill> There's also an odd looking segfault in dmesg from asterisk
• 2034[15:21:03] <somiaj> FarhaadN: there is something subtle wrong with it, but I can't tell you what. Everything you share seems fine.
• 2035[15:21:15] <liveuser1> experimenting with user managment and after changing an uid to 1 it cannot be changed again becauses it claims the user is in use by init, can you figure out somehow to solve this?
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• 2037[15:22:03] <liveuser1> Kevin what do you see?
• 2038[15:22:19] <shtrb|work> FarhaadN, very far fetched, does that happen if you are in an ssh tunnel / tty or via something like konsole ?
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• 2040[15:23:26] <liveuser1> do your neighbors be helping to commit fraud kevin?
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• 2042[15:23:41] <liveuser1> what does debt killer say about it?
• 2043[15:23:48] <FarhaadN> somiaj: thank you a lot for answering me
• 2044[15:23:51] <liveuser1> the debt of a servant was paid
• 2045[15:24:01] <FarhaadN> shtrb|work: with ssh
• 2046[15:24:06] <themill> liveuser1: I don't think you were looking for #debian.
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• 2049[15:24:18] <liveuser1> then the servent want kill his neighbor for fraud?
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• 2056[15:26:12] <somiaj> FarhaadN: sorry it hasn't been fruitful in tracking down the issue. I hope you can track it down.
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• 2070[15:30:36] <FarhaadN> somiaj: no problem , thank you again
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• 2076[15:31:34] <Haohmaru> i just installed skype on someone else's debian
• 2077[15:31:43] <Haohmaru> i feel so filthy
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• 2079[15:32:19] <dvs> !lart Haohmaru
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• 2087[15:33:31] <Haohmaru> one of our other computers here with nasty kubuntu has wine x_x
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• 2091[15:34:29] <shtrb|work> haircode, snap or the real thing ?
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• 2186[16:15:14] <OS-38463> /msg NickServ IDENTIFY 1234XXXX
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• 2188[16:15:47] <OS-38463> /join #offsec
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• 2190[16:16:20] <OS-38463> /join #offsec
• 2191[16:16:47] <OS-38463> /join #offsec
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• 2201[16:19:16] <jelly> OS-38463: try without the space in front of /join
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• 2203[16:19:45] <tomreyn> and set a new password now that you pasted it here
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• 2205[16:20:11] <ikanobori> It's also a tiny bit ironic that you pasted a password in here (a not very good one so I hope it's not realy) and then tried to join #offsec >_<
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• 2212[16:22:13] <shtrb|work> It's an old bot , that reconnects each few hours
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• 2217[16:23:02] <jelly> they want to learn about this "sec" thing after all, so not that ironic they don't know all about it yet?
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• 2239[16:31:58] <payam_> hi
• 2240[16:32:21] <payam_> I just installde debian. it cound not find the drivers on usb and now I donw knot how to install those drivers
• 2241[16:32:30] <payam_> could please anyone help me?
• 2242[16:32:38] <payam_> it is debian 9.4
• 2243[16:33:01] <greycat> If you mean firmware, just install it via apt-get if you have Internet connectivity now.
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• 2246[16:33:27] <payam_> greycat: apt-get update?
• 2247[16:33:33] <payam_> and upgrade?
• 2248[16:33:48] <greycat> What driver or firmware *specifically* are you looking for?
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• 2253[16:34:29] <payam_> greycat: i dont know my computer very well. shouldnt find and install the appropriate ones?
• 2254[16:34:56] <greycat> So you *suspect* there is missing firmware? OK, run "dmesg | grep -i firmware" and find out for sure.
• 2255[16:35:06] <payam_> greycat: the apt-get only searchs CD rom
• 2256[16:35:14] <greycat> !stretch sources.list
• 2257[16:35:15] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Stretch" has three lines: "deb replaced-url
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• 2261[16:36:07] <payam_> greycat: replaced-url
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• 2264[16:36:40] <greycat> Do you have a working network interface at all?
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• 2267[16:37:19] <greycat> I'm guessing "yes" because you somehow got the data into the ubuntu paste site.
• 2268[16:37:21] <payam_> greycat: yes ethernet cable
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• 2270[16:38:34] <greycat> OK, rewrite your /etc/apt/sources.list (including contrib and non-free), then apt-get update, then apt-get install firmware-linux
• 2271[16:38:54] <greycat> but you may need special steps for the iwl firmware
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• 2275[16:39:38] <payam_> I rewrite the sources but I coulndt find any non free source
• 2276[16:39:42] <payam_> only security
• 2277[16:40:25] <payam_> replaced-url
• 2278[16:40:27] *** Quits: andrzejv (~andzej@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2279[16:40:37] <greycat> !non-free sources
• 2280[16:40:37] <dpkg> Edit /etc/apt/sources.list, ensure that the two main Debian mirror lines end with "main contrib non-free" rather than just "main", then «apt-get update». But bear in mind that you'll be installing <non-free> software. These may have onerous terms; check the licenses. See also <sources.list>.
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• 2286[16:41:40] <payam_> greycat: like this ?replaced-url
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• 2293[16:46:05] <themill> !stretch sources.list
• 2294[16:46:06] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Stretch" has three lines: "deb replaced-url
• 2295[16:46:17] <themill> payam_: ^^ you probably want to remove the CD line and use that instead
• 2296[16:46:24] <payam_> now I installed linux firmware
• 2297[16:46:29] <payam_> then what?
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• 2303[16:47:04] <themill> firmware-iwlwifi too
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• 2305[16:47:48] <payam_> themill: done
• 2306[16:47:50] <payam_> what more
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• 2308[16:48:29] <payam_> do I need to restart to see?
• 2309[16:48:58] <greycat> If the firmware install commands succeeded, then yes, you'd need to reboot to actually load the firmware.
• 2310[16:49:08] <payam_> okey. I will see
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• 2321[16:54:38] <HeXiLeD> is there a standalone facebook that can be used with debian ?
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• 2323[16:55:12] <jhutchins_wk> HeXiLeD: http:/replaced-url
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• 2334[16:59:19] <HeXiLeD> sorry i meant standalone client
• 2335[16:59:28] <HeXiLeD> for IM
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• 2355[17:08:19] <jelly> HeXiLeD: a casual web search suggests there's a thing called purple-facebook, a plugin for libpurple that should work with Pidgin. Not packaged by Debian (yet).
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• 2364[17:11:47] <penaxr> hey , having trouble installing debian , im getting this error "Failed to load Firmwares - regulatory.db" any help on this?
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• 2368[17:12:26] <HeXiLeD> jelly: i was looking at something like replaced-url
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• 2380[17:17:35] <shtrb|work> there is purple facebook , it works ok but not built into debian
• 2381[17:17:38] <shtrb|work> #pidgin
• 2382[17:17:58] <ychaouche> I have more than 1 milion files in a directory, how can I quickly list some of them ? (output of ls or any other command that runs fast enough for just a subset)
• 2383[17:18:24] <shtrb|work> HeXiLeD, ask at #pidgin but that is not just messanger but a gazaillion of other protocols
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• 2385[17:19:25] <jelly> ychaouche: find /a/directory | grep -E 'only|some'
• 2386[17:19:38] <ychaouche> I tried ls, but it is taking very long, I also tried "for file in *; do echo $file; done;", not only does it take a lot of time but it also doesn't respond to C-c/C-z/C-d
• 2387[17:20:13] <jelly> ychaouche: you could have just echo * ... but that likely would not have worked
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• 2389[17:20:58] <ychaouche> :) replaced-url
• 2390[17:21:30] <ychaouche> that's what I get for putting /* in my logrotate file
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• 2392[17:22:13] <ychaouche> find is much faster than ls, thanks jelly
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• 2394[17:22:40] <Tegu> what do you mean some of them? some with specific name pattern? some that are modified within a given interval? something else? anyhow, see 'man find' and its expressions
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• 2397[17:23:09] <jelly> yeah, anything /blah/* is not a good idea
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• 2401[17:23:57] <greycat> grepping the output of find isn't a great idea either. find /a/directory \( -iname '*only*' -o -iname '*some*' \) ...
• 2402[17:24:09] <Tegu> man find
• 2403[17:24:13] <Tegu> oops, wrong window
• 2404[17:24:20] <greycat> or you could use the fancy GNU -regex stuff
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• 2406[17:24:37] <ychaouche> well I don't care which of them to be honest, just want to have a sneak preview about what's there.
• 2407[17:24:37] <JohnDoe2> although not a bad idea to read the man :P
• 2408[17:24:54] <ychaouche> if | head is faster, I would have used | head
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• 2411[17:25:33] <greycat> ls and globbing both have to read the entire directory and sort the results before they can start producing output
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• 2413[17:25:43] <Tegu> I was just wondering about those parentheses that greycat used. Also, my wild assumption is that -regex is slower than the default shell pattern matching.
• 2414[17:26:04] <greycat> I would guess so as well, but not by a lot.
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• 2420[17:28:26] <ychaouche> greycat: ah good point.
• 2421[17:28:55] <ychaouche> Does logrotate keep some state between two runs ?
• 2422[17:28:55] <greycat> Tegu: standard boolean AND + OR precedence rules apply. find's options all use AND unless you throw in a -o like I did. The OR has a lower precedence, so you need \( \) around it if you want it to be higher precedence, which I did in this case.
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• 2424[17:29:45] <Tegu> I see. At first I thought that the parentheses were around the whole expression, but there are those ... as well
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• 2427[17:30:12] <greycat> that's for whatever other find options you're using (like -type f)
• 2428[17:30:21] <ychaouche> I removed all the files in /var/log/apache2/roundcube/, but strace on logrotate still shows it is trying to compare paths in that directory (which is empty) replaced-url
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• 2430[17:32:03] <ychaouche> here's with -s 512 to show more of the strings replaced-url
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• 2435[17:33:21] <ychaouche> and logrotate is again eating 100% of my CPU
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• 2437[17:35:08] <ychaouche> can I somehow purge its state or cache ?
• 2438[17:35:14] <ychaouche> should I just uninstall/reinstall ?
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• 2450[17:39:25] <themill> ychaouche: /var/lib/logrotate/status exists but for the most part it just looks at the log files you have, and if you have millions of them, then that is likely the issue, not its status file. (but do check how big that file is)
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• 2452[17:39:53] <ychaouche> themill: I have deleted the million log files
• 2453[17:40:03] <ychaouche> but logrotate still searches for them it seems
• 2454[17:40:13] <themill> that may well be from this status file
• 2455[17:40:14] <jelly> ychaouche: kill it, see if /var/lib/logrotate/status is full of crap and delete unneeded lines
• 2456[17:40:26] <themill> what he said
• 2457[17:40:34] <ychaouche> thanks
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• 2463[17:42:37] <ychaouche> yep, much faster :)
• 2464[17:42:40] <ychaouche> thanks
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• 2474[17:44:44] <ychaouche> first time I see this : error: error running shared postrotate script for '/var/log/mysql.log /var/log/mysql/mysql.log /var/log/mysql/mysql-slow.log /var/log/mysql/error.log '
• 2475[17:44:59] <ychaouche> this is on the error output of logrotate
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• 2479[17:46:13] <`Koyaanisqatsi> what is the debian configuration which allows several luks partition with the same password to only input the password once? this seems to be the default behavior for a new install.
• 2480[17:46:19] <jelly> ychaouche: maybe you only see it for the first time because logrotate usually runs via cron and you never read mails from the cron job before?
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• 2482[17:46:39] <ychaouche> jelly: yes
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• 2484[17:47:12] <ychaouche> jelly: but I mean, I don't remember touching the mysql file.
• 2485[17:47:13] <jelly> `Koyaanisqatsi: dunno, but if you find out let us know because I'd really like not to have to enter the same passphrase twice at boot!
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• 2487[17:47:50] <`Koyaanisqatsi> jelly, do a fresh install
• 2488[17:47:53] <`Koyaanisqatsi> only way I can find
• 2489[17:48:08] <jelly> that's out of the question, lose 17 years of cruft?!
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• 2491[17:48:24] <`Koyaanisqatsi> I only have 5 years
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• 2493[17:49:01] <jelly> I think that machine was installed as slink or potato.
• 2494[17:49:18] <`Koyaanisqatsi> this was solydxk
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• 2496[17:50:06] <jelly> !solydxk
• 2497[17:50:06] <dpkg> SolydX and SolydK are GNU/Linux distributions <based on debian>. They are not supported in #debian, use #solydxk on irc.freenode.net instead. replaced-url
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• 2499[17:50:21] <jelly> could be something specific to that derivative
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• 2501[17:51:11] <`Koyaanisqatsi> either way it was updated to regular debian
• 2502[17:51:28] <`Koyaanisqatsi> and everything works the same except for that
• 2503[17:52:35] <greycat> I don't know these solyd distribution thingies, but *in general*, simply replacing all the derivative packages with equivalent stretch packages is not a 100% guarantee you have a working stretch system.
• 2504[17:52:48] <`Koyaanisqatsi> solydxk.com is dead so I guess it's a defunct distro
• 2505[17:52:49] <greycat> There's a bit of black magic that lives in the installer and not in any package.
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• 2507[17:53:13] <`Koyaanisqatsi> I checked the packages. there are no loose packages
• 2508[17:53:37] <`Koyaanisqatsi> and I selected 'replace config' when upgrading
• 2509[17:53:50] <`Koyaanisqatsi> so maybe you are right, it's the installer
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• 2649[19:13:31] <domovoy_> trying to configure dupload, i create ~/.dupload.conf, but it doesn't seem to read it... (dupload tells me i have no default_host, and dupload -p doesn't show my config), any idea why? (~/.dupload.conf: replaced-url
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• 2684[19:35:15] <shtrb|laptop> Anyone can guide what could make a usb attached SATA disk auto disconnect if there is no write on it for ~2 minutes (even if mounted)
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• 2686[19:35:37] <shtrb|laptop> have a clue
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• 2689[19:36:08] <rawf> I have this weird issue where my laptop sometimes does a hard shutdown when I close the lid, instead of suspending. This happened last night while it was still plugged into it's power adapter. Does anyone know how I might try to debug this issue?
• 2690[19:36:27] <rawf> its*
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• 2692[19:36:56] <shtrb> rawf, there are scripts that put your laptop to hibernate BUT if the battery is low your UEFI can shut it down
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• 2694[19:37:39] <shtrb> rawf, low is less than 10% for me
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• 2696[19:38:28] <rawf> Thanks, the power was at 50% when I plugged it in and was 100% when I rebooted it this morning.
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• 2698[19:39:17] <jolt> shtrb: You can customize the script that runs for lid-events
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• 2700[19:39:45] <jolt> maybe I mixed up the question :D
• 2701[19:40:19] <shtrb> rawf, do you have anything in the logs when that happen ?
• 2702[19:40:26] <shtrb> crash / oops / failure ...
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• 2704[19:42:36] <crash_> haha got highlighted
• 2705[19:42:39] <rawf> I haven't been able to find anything in the past. Where should I check?
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• 2723[19:51:53] <rawf> The last thing I see in /var/log/syslog is "systemd-sleep: Suspending System..."
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• 2738[19:57:18] <hypn0> are there any gambas experts here, pm me please :-)
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• 2744[19:58:32] <rant> im prep for jessie->stretch would official backpports, muliarch, or dmo likely cause problems?
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• 2747[19:58:57] <rant> the release notes only mention unofficial stuff
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• 2749[19:59:18] <greycat> multiarch is not a problem, generally. Official backports are *unlikely* to be a problem. dmo could be.
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• 2751[20:00:58] <rant> greycat: i felt the same but was unsure how to deal with dmo as the many packages intalled may be depended heavily upon by official packages
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• 2753[20:01:55] <rant> enabling dmo is straightforward official pkgs replaced.. disabling it not so easy
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• 2756[20:02:25] <hypn0> why wouldn't you do a fresh install :-/
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• 2762[20:04:21] <rant> because thats not wjat sane people do unless absolutely necessary
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• 2764[20:04:53] <hypn0> :-D
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• 2768[20:06:58] <annadane> but it only takes twenty minuuuuuuuutes /anna
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• 2770[20:07:03] <annadane> (do not copy my example)
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• 2776[20:09:30] <jhutchins> shtrb: Does it cold boot when you restart it?
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• 2778[20:09:55] <rawf> jhutchins: Yes
• 2779[20:09:55] <jhutchins> shtrb: Your swap partition needs to be at least as big as your RAM.
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• 2781[20:10:30] <rawf> jhutchins: for suspend?
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• 2783[20:11:09] <shtrb> jhutchins, not me
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• 2787[20:13:26] <rawf> This is for suspending to RAM, not hibernating to disk. I have no swap partition.
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• 2796[20:19:34] <shtrb> oh sweet lord linux and his saints, it is "usb3 auto suspend " which kills my sata
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• 2806[20:21:32] <fassl> hello, i added some bridged with brctl addbr and set them up in interfaces.d, but on a reboot they are gone, how can i circumvent this?
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• 2808[20:21:39] <fassl> *bridges
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• 2810[20:22:08] <jelly> fassl: show your interfaces file, paste.debian.net
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• 2814[20:23:06] <fassl> replaced-url
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• 2824[20:26:36] <FinalX> shtrb: Windows 10 is not very different. But in case you need/want to disable it for kernels with it compiled in: replaced-url
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• 2833[20:30:14] <johnnyfive> Anyone have deep understanding of dpkg-source? I'm trying to build packages with the sources.list entries are all local filesystems, which are read-only. However when building, dpkg-source tries to edit the source tarballs in place: `dpkg-source: error: cannot write bluez_5.37-0ubuntu5.1.debian.tar.xz: Read-only file system` instead of placing the artifacts in the working directory. If i'm reading that error correctly. Anyone know why it's
• 2834[20:30:14] <johnnyfive> trying to write to a source tarball when building?
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• 2836[20:31:15] <rhizome> johnnyfive: is tmp on the RO?
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• 2838[20:31:25] <johnnyfive> rhizome, neg
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• 2841[20:32:37] <rhizome> that's all i got right now
• 2842[20:33:54] <johnnyfive> the builder is set to build in /home/ubuntu, upon calling, say, `apt-get -y -q build-dep libmbim-proxy=1.14.0-1ubuntu0.16.04.1`, instead of copying the sources to the working dir, it symlinks from the sources to cwd, then when building tries to edit the above file in-place, which it can't due to it being a RO fs. So it's doing two weird things: symlinking instead of copying sources, and then trying to edit sources when building.
• 2843[20:33:59] <johnnyfive> Thanks for the suggestion rhizome
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• 2848[20:36:28] <chocolate> what's the best alternative to download torrents on debian server textmode?
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• 2869[20:47:29] <rawf> chocolate: X11 forwarding?
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• 2871[20:47:44] <rawf> chocolate: I know transmission also has a web interface, I haven't tried it though
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• 2873[20:47:46] <chocolate> rawf: no
• 2874[20:48:00] <rawf> no?
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• 2877[20:49:05] <chocolate> it doesn't has graphical environment
• 2878[20:49:08] <johnnyfive> chocolate, you're asking a really subjective question, which is better answered by an internet search. However, in case you can't find any cli based torrent clients: rtorrent
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• 2888[20:56:35] <rawf> chocolate: it doesn't need a graphical environment for X11 forwarding
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• 2896[20:59:30] <fassl> jelly, did it look ok for you?
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• 2925[21:15:53] <rhizome> can I just change mdadm.conf to rename /dev/md1 to /dev/md0?
• 2926[21:17:13] <rhizome> chocolate: can you clarify
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• 2931[21:18:51] <tw> no, when it autoassembles your array, it uses metadata stored on the block devices.
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• 2934[21:19:42] <rhizome> gotcha, thanks. stupid block device metadata.
• 2935[21:20:09] <tw> otoh, scan works when you blow up mdadm.conf, so hey, not all that bad =P
• 2936[21:20:19] <rhizome> i have worse problems
• 2937[21:20:47] <tw> Have you tried mounting using UUID instead of device name?
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• 2940[21:21:40] <rhizome> alas, fstab is the least of my worries, and frankly i'm a little embarrassed to say more.
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• 2949[21:28:45] <karlpinc> rhizome: "file -s" is your friend when it comes to finding UUIDs.
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• 2952[21:30:12] <jelly> fassl: does that bridge... have no default members at all?
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• 2956[21:30:58] <jelly> fassl: otherwise it looks sane
• 2957[21:31:55] <morfeokmg> hello guys, i have one question about debian 9.4 kern SMP Debian 4.9.88-1+deb9u1
• 2958[21:32:08] <morfeokmg> we have some issue with NetworkManager?
• 2959[21:32:49] *** HoloIRCUser3 is now known as nosaj
• 2960[21:32:53] <morfeokmg> i search about it on "San Google" but i saw only references to firmware issues, but in my case, is not the topic
• 2961[21:33:17] <morfeokmg> y can run iwlist device scan and working fine
• 2962[21:33:38] <morfeokmg> if i use wicd, is the same, working fine
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• 2966[21:37:17] <Tom-_> well, maybe you can use wicd :)
• 2967[21:37:38] <Sansar> Hello, In order to make pam_fprintd.so sufficient for logging in, which file should I edit under /etc/pam.d?
• 2968[21:37:47] <Sansar> common-aut, login, lightdm-greeter or anything else?
• 2969[21:38:25] <morfeokmg> i want use NetworkManager, due my VPN configurations
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• 2972[21:38:54] <rhizome> karlpinc: oh, i have those, i'm just juggling md's and lvm stuff, trying to move disks around and resync everytning nicely. it's not going well.
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• 2974[21:40:00] <rhizome> the upside is i'm sketching out a post for my nonexistent blog where i compile the howto i'm not finding elsewhere.
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• 2976[21:41:02] <rhizome> renumbering the md is also the least of it
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• 2985[21:45:40] <vader> i have an idea for an app (great in my opinion) where should i go .what should i do ?
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• 2989[21:47:43] <rhizome> write it
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• 2992[21:48:59] <vader> lol
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• 2994[21:49:09] <greycat> except nobody's laughing
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• 2996[21:49:41] <vader> whatever . i have to admit it was stupid to ask :)
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• 2999[21:50:14] <greycat> "I have an idea" is like 0.02% of the work.
• 3000[21:50:18] <rhizome> what were you expecting?
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• 3003[21:51:55] <greycat> replaced-url
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• 3005[21:53:03] <patterson> Dilbert is great not so sanguine about Scott Adams
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• 3007[21:53:52] <patterson> I'm lookingh for someone who can write my mission statementy for me and embroider 99 copies of it.
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• 3024[21:58:54] <vader> well what i'm expecting is someone who can wright the code
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• 3026[21:59:05] <greycat> *plonk*
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• 3028[21:59:08] <vader> dont be an idiot please
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• 3037[22:01:32] <vader> it was a simple question :) some honest guy would say try there or there ... here we have ..? yea what do we have ?
• 3038[22:02:00] <rhizome> vader: you're going to need money, then
• 3039[22:02:11] <tna_agent> I'll bite. What's the idea?
• 3040[22:02:21] <rhizome> plz sign NDA
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• 3045[22:03:57] <vader> tna_agent, so you expect me to just tell you coz u r being nice ?
• 3046[22:03:59] <vader> :P
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• 3048[22:05:06] <vader> look i just give a shot looking what happened thats it :)
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• 3050[22:05:10] <vader> and i see
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• 3052[22:05:53] <rhizome> yes, we know what you're doing. you aren't the first.
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• 3059[22:07:05] <rhizome> if you have neither skills nor money, you might as well tell people
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• 3065[22:11:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1641
• 3066[22:11:04] <kot> computer spreadsheets were the idea of a non-programmer who teamed with a programmee. i don't see any problem with that.
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• 3069[22:11:56] <greycat> There's one obvious problem, and that's that he's completely off-topic.
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• 3077[22:15:19] <yctn_> why debian chose default rsyslog instead of syslog-ng?
• 3078[22:15:51] <johnnyfive> Just fyi, if you use file:// in your sources.list, apt-get will create symlinks to said files when pulling sources. You have to use copy:// to disable this behavior and have it behave similar to replaced-url
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• 3089[22:21:09] <rhizome> i think howtoforge was useful for about 3 days once upon a time
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• 3101[22:24:29] <format_c> I'm trying profile my application. I've set the -pg CFlag. the gmon.out file is written. When I call gprof to interpret the data, I just get "no time accumulated". Any idea?
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• 3137[22:55:18] <yctn_> why debian chose default rsyslog instead of syslog-ng?
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• 3144[22:59:11] <greycat> replaced-url
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• 3152[23:03:02] <Sepultura> Hallo
• 3153[23:03:10] <Sepultura> Is QUIC already implemented on Linux?
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• 3157[23:05:06] <hypn0> is it okay to uninstall x11-apps and x11-utils packages, they seem to have useless programs, that just clog up the menu
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• 3159[23:05:18] <format_c> Sepultura, so far as I know, QUIC is settled on top of udp/443
• 3160[23:05:27] <mutante> Sepultura: i think this counts as yes: replaced-url
• 3161[23:05:40] <mutante> replaced-url
• 3162[23:05:51] <greycat> hypn0: You can try removing them, sure. If it turns out you need them, you can just reinstall them.
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• 3167[23:06:13] <Sepultura> anyone tried out QUIC?
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• 3169[23:06:26] <format_c> Server side or Client side?
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• 3172[23:06:34] <Sepultura> any?
• 3173[23:07:01] <Sepultura> who wants to buy a keyboard with Anykey key?
• 3174[23:07:02] <format_c> Client side, I think all users using Chrome and accessing some Google services
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• 3177[23:07:23] <Sepultura> I am not using Chrome
• 3178[23:07:27] <format_c> Have seen some traffic on udp/443 in real.
• 3179[23:07:34] <Sepultura> except of Google services?
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• 3182[23:08:47] <hypn0> greycat: it will remove xorg too :-) not a good idea now
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• 3186[23:09:38] <hypn0> they are all x programs in the debian menu, no way to remove them :-)
• 3187[23:09:43] <Sepultura> has anyone ever tried to code a replacement for Xorg?
• 3188[23:09:53] <format_c> Server-side. not sure. Since it's a Google-driven protocol... I'd say there is some reluctance. But this is completely a guess.
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• 3192[23:10:50] <greycat> "xorg" is just a meta-package that sucks in all the dependencies like x112-apps
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• 3194[23:10:55] <greycat> s/2//
• 3195[23:11:04] <greycat> so removing "xorg" is like removing "gnome" -- totally harmless
• 3196[23:11:45] <hypn0> oh, but it has some gvfs-* dependiencies too
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• 3198[23:11:58] <mutante> Sepultura: to me it's still the replacement for XFree86
• 3199[23:12:03] <hypn0> okay, can remove x11-apps then
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• 3202[23:12:25] <greycat> x11-apps includes xclock which I use, so removing it wouldn't be for me... x11-utils has xev and xdpyinfo which I occasionally use for information gathering
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• 3211[23:13:34] <hypn0> why aren't they separate totally from everything else, so ou can remove them all, just install what you want
• 3212[23:13:46] <greycat> They are.
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• 3216[23:14:35] <hypn0> they are lumped together in 2 packages
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• 3219[23:14:53] <greycat> Because they're small and they're built out of the same source package.
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• 3223[23:15:21] <greycat> It would be like asking why rmdir and rm are in the same package instead of separate.
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• 3228[23:15:54] <hypn0> but those are worth installing, there are better programs now :-)
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• 3232[23:19:04] <allorder> Hi, I'm on debian stable, since last update of vlc, vlc doesn't start and I got some errors: replaced-url
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• 3247[23:24:10] <ragupo> what group shoul my user be in to get write permission to sd cards inserted?
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• 3249[23:24:39] <greycat> Depends on what kind of file system is on the card and how it's being mounted.
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• 3254[23:25:45] <greycat> If it's a unix-like file system (ext3, etc.) then you just use the regular permissions of the file system.
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• 3256[23:26:17] <greycat> If it's a MSDOS-like file system (vfat) then you probably want to mount it with the -o uid=YOU option to make all the files and dirs appear to be owned by YOU.
• 3257[23:26:17] <hypn0> ragupo: maybe a hardware fault, my usb regularly mounts read only, then read/write sometimes, a bad port :-/
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• 3264[23:27:44] <ragupo> well i got an emergency board up running, arm, and im only in sudo and video group, besides my own. I guess need to add a few to make things work smoothly
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• 3289[23:31:28] <httperr418> hi guys, I need a bit of help with routing
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• 3292[23:32:20] <httperr418> I'm setting up an openvpn server, and one of the steps is "set up a route on the server-side LAN gateway to route the VPN client subnet to the OpenVPN server"
• 3293[23:32:29] <httperr418> it doesn't really indicate how to do thsi
• 3294[23:32:31] <httperr418> this*
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• 3296[23:33:13] <yctn_> why debian chose default rsyslog instead of syslog-ng?
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• 3298[23:33:58] <httperr418> current status is: can ping the openvpn gateway from clients; can ping the interface address of the server from clients; CANNOT ping or do anything else to any device or IP outside of the server
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• 3305[23:37:12] <yctn_> why debian chose default rsyslog instead of syslog-ng?
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• 3326[23:47:26] <rhizome> httperr418: sounds like routing
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• 3341[23:57:37] <jim> heya somiaj, are you around?
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