157[13:28:53] <Janni> Hello. A colleague of mine is experiencing
a weird phenomenon. I'm hoping you guys might have an
explanation for it.
158[13:29:12] <Haohmaru> Aliens.
159[13:29:37] <Habbie> probably not aliens.
160[13:29:47] <Janni> He is running a Postgres server that is
doing a lot of work. It slows down his entire system. When he
removes the swap everything runs very smoothly.
207[13:44:38] <Haohmaru> so it seems i've installed 32bit
debian instead of 64bit... now.. is there a way to change this
without reinstalling and loosing configurations/customizations?
267[14:15:54] *** Quits: emOne (~emOne@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
268[14:16:42] <Wulf> dpkg: wgetpaste?
269[14:16:42] <dpkg> wgetpaste is a CLI application for sending
text to a pastebin, its only dependencies are bash and wget. To
install and use: wget
replaced-url
331[14:52:36] <Haohmaru> altho it says i'm supposed to know
what every command on there does or else the procedure is not for me
332[14:52:37] <Haohmaru> :/
333[14:52:38] <greycat> !crossgrade
334[14:52:38] <dpkg> Converting an i386 installation into an
amd64 installation in-place is quite difficult. It's much
easier to reinstall the system with the new architecture -- ask me
about <install debian>. If you've got good backups,
plenty of time and are feeling lucky, you can try
replaced-url
335[14:53:04] <Haohmaru> hm.. what can happen?
336[14:53:30] <greycat> The most obvious thing that could happen
is that you screw up libc6 so badly that no dynamically linked
programs can run, at all.
350[15:04:56] <Devastator> hum, sysctl not found..
351[15:05:10] <Haohmaru> do you mean systemctl?
352[15:05:24] <greycat> !buster su
353[15:05:25] <dpkg> In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by
default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su
-l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at
all...). To use the previous behaviour, put "ALWAYS_SET_PATH
yes" in /etc/login.defs. See
replaced-url
354[15:05:39] <DammitJim> man, I've always used su -
355[15:05:47] <greycat> if that works for you, great
471[16:00:01] <unborn> fling: you can write your self bash
script and run it via cron as root however unattended upgs could
turn very ugy.. just setup your cron with that bash on day when you
not working (on production machines) so if anything go tits you can
and have time to recover it. - unattended updates are like windows
10 (you never know what is happening and where and to what as it is
running on background, don't be out of your mind, just do once
a couple of months
472[16:00:04] <unborn> apt update to check, pin packages you
would like to freeze and update rest..
475[16:02:19] *** Quits: b30wulf (uid175355@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
476[16:02:25] <greycat> hold, not pin
477[16:04:03] <unborn> pin or hold or perhaps lets call it
freeze.. sorry greycat , to me it means same.. :) no offence please
but you got me in the mind.
478[16:04:42] <unborn> but you right even synaptic saying
hold... so hold is correct
513[16:10:16] <Habbie> JordiGH, i've had 2 or 3 firefox
crashes since march i think
514[16:10:21] <Habbie> JordiGH, so nothing interesting
515[16:10:32] <unborn> fling then just open terminal and type
su, enter password and then see output.. if you wold like to run
this via cron it its doable.. just tell the bash to put output of
the command to txt file..
516[16:10:34] <JordiGH> Habbie: Would you mind trying my method?
517[16:10:44] <JordiGH> Discord seems to work too.
518[16:10:48] <Habbie> JordiGH, i'd be happy to try that
later
545[16:14:27] <JordiGH> Habbie: Hm, it seems to work on any chat
service where the thing does a lot of js processing looking for
emojis as you type or something. Mastodon?
547[16:14:38] <JordiGH> But Mastodon got more efficient
recently.
548[16:14:51] <Habbie> i don't have mastodon
549[16:15:00] <JordiGH> Well, that one's easier to acquire.
550[16:15:07] <wasamasa> do it like JWZ and send each other
emails every minute
551[16:15:10] <Habbie> i'm not going to acquire anything
552[16:15:26] <JordiGH> Do you talk to other people on the
internet via some js-based chat anywhere?
553[16:15:58] <Habbie> slack, rocketchat
554[16:16:01] <JordiGH> So maybe that explains why I'm the
only Debian user experiencing Firefox crashes: no other Debian user
uses Firefox to talk to other people but me.
555[16:16:06] <wasamasa> :D
556[16:16:13] <Habbie> JordiGH, a likely theory :D
557[16:16:22] <Habbie> JordiGH, so you say, enter a line of
text, then just backspace it away?
558[16:16:28] *** Quits: Ekchuan (~RandyMars@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
559[16:16:31] <JordiGH> Well, it has to be using a lot of js.
564[16:17:04] <unborn> JordiGH: I wrote once npm thingy which
behaved as support live chat 1 to 1 from website directly to your
irc - like an pm but left it.. too much to maintain and too much
people around...
565[16:17:05] <Habbie> ah, that's not something rocketchat
does at all
577[16:19:06] <tlatelolco> Hello. I have Debian 9.9 and I never
can input ¨i or ^a as one character. It always dissociates them.
Wether I am in Swiss French or in Bépo keyboard layout. Where
does it come from, please?
609[16:30:38] *** Quits: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
610[16:31:22] <unborn> JordiGH: nah we are safe, all to talk
about it, all I want to ask, do I am right that part of that snap
thingy is closed source or appropriately called closed? the reason
is it looks to me very nice and simple to have it running but
somehow I do not trust packages from 3th party nor even partly
closed sourced program.. its just I have been running stable long
years however those snap packages does not explain anything closer
to me.. and there is no
611[16:31:22] <unborn> answer from packages maintainers nor from
its own creators - called canonical or whatever they may be called.
612[16:31:27] *** Quits: krabador (~krabador@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
624[16:33:38] <unborn> JordiGH: understood.. however when you
look at the code of the server - if you would have an chance it
seems to me to be closed source..
625[16:33:57] *** Quits: fflori (~fflori@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
626[16:33:58] <JordiGH> I didn't think the server code was
distributed at all.
627[16:34:13] <unborn> and I am asking as i am free from those
kind of stuff for many years..
628[16:34:31] <JordiGH> So if they don't distribute the
code at all, the question whether it's free or not is
immaterial.
645[16:36:52] <JordiGH> unborn: I don't find open vs closed
source a very meaningful distinction. And people often think it just
means whether the code is visible or not. I'd rather talk about
free vs non-free software.
646[16:37:30] *** Quits: ich (~ich@replaced-ip) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
650[16:38:26] <JordiGH> Like, the source could be visible but
restricted. Is that "closed source"?
651[16:38:47] <greycat> non-free open source
652[16:39:09] <unborn> Habbie: we are talking about the process
of creating the package - that magic - of course snap is or perhaps
to my understanding must be closed source or partly closed source as
they do not distribute it out now publish it out.. they just say,
hey trust us and be happy.. which I had to ask here since this is
open source community - since I do some code out and in, its all
open source and its readable via git.. I guess its non free source
like an open
669[16:44:10] <JordiGH> greycat: Not sure if you're joking
(in which case, I'm about to look like an ass), but supposedly
restricted but visible source isn't open source, according to
Bruce Perens (pbuh) but most people forget that "open
source" is supposed to be a synynom for "free
software".
670[16:45:03] <greycat> "open source" means you can
read the source code. That's all. It doesn't mean
you're free to DO anything with the source code, like modify
it, or distribut it. That's where the distinction between
"free software" and "open source" comes in.
673[16:46:44] <JordiGH> You're not very grey at all.
674[16:46:47] <JordiGH> Have you forgotten 1998?
675[16:47:14] *** Quits: Christian75 (~Christian@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
676[16:47:18] <unborn> read and you are free to change and make
it better for your self perhaps I am wrong but once you do mention
original source or creators you are free to share it out with anyone
- perhaps I am wrong..
688[16:49:55] <unborn> JordiGH: its partly closed source and I
can confirm this: Red Hat employee Adam Williamson, while
acknowledging his own bias, has criticized snap for keeping the
server side closed source,[20] not having a mechanism for using
third party servers, and having to sign a contributor license
agreement to contribute to its development.
689[16:49:56] *** Quits: Arkaniad (~Arkaniad@replaced-ip) (Read error: No route to host)
690[16:50:14] <JordiGH> unborn: Ah, I didn't realise they
did distribute the server code.
691[16:50:15] <Haohmaru> in 1998 iirc there was soccer world cup
in france
700[16:52:16] <unborn> basically snappy = trust the vendor and
download package from whenever = like download and install .exe
files.. man I hope so it will be gone before it will be popular
706[16:53:04] <greycat> So you're saying that "Open
Source"(R) is a trademarked term with a very specific meaning
and that I'm using it wrong, because I'm using the meaning
that the phrase ACTUALLY HAS among the human population of the
Earth, instead of its trademarked legal definition.
707[16:53:12] <greycat> That's acceptable as a source of
confusion.
708[16:53:15] <unborn> JordiGH: they use its own servers as 3th
party which means - you know...
711[16:54:16] <EdePopede> i did a new install of 10.1 on the
other pc. only really basic things. unchecked the 3 default
selections from the installer. 200 something packages. then
installed xorg and xterm. 'startx', works. nice.
712[16:54:17] <JordiGH> greycat: I'm saying you forgot that
the term was a marketing term coined in 1998.
713[16:54:19] <EdePopede> now i was going for a wm. found just a
handful on the 3 DVDs, decided to install awesome. did the usual
'apt-get -s install' to know *what* it would fetch. looked
good, i did it. ended up with config errors, 3 packages missing:
libxcb-xrm0, libxcb-xtest0, libxdg-basedir1. though all of them were
in the list in the dry-run. so, what's the best way to fix it
and how can this even happen?
714[16:54:19] <unborn> thanks everyone. finally I can see snappy
light years away from my systems
715[16:54:27] <wasamasa> it is kind of funny to have this
discussion in a debian channel
716[16:54:31] <wasamasa> dfsg anyone?
717[16:54:37] <JordiGH> greycat: And that they convinced you
that the term was your own idea and the natural thing to call it:
it's not.
718[16:54:58] <greycat> I'm just telling you what the
phrase means, to me, and I believe, to most other humans.
727[16:56:17] <e> "don't you know what happened?
really? <name> <name> <name? you need to read
things!" is not a good look
728[16:56:26] <wasamasa> unfortunately greycat is right, the
occasional time I hear someone non-techy mention open source,
they're quick on emphasizing that it's great because it
doesn't cost them anything
730[16:56:37] * unborn JordiGH I do believe that code is like
language, if I not see, not read and not understand, than I am sorry
I cannot help.. no one can
737[16:57:35] <kennoodle> URGENT ->PLEASE TO MEET U, TELL
DEBIAN TEAM TO LISTENING systemd-resolve.service ON
ETHERNET/WIFI/DONGLE FROM localhost AND BUSY FROM EXTERN
738[16:57:37] <kennoodle> URGENT ->PLEASE TO MEET U, TELL
DEBIAN TEAM TO LISTENING systemd-resolve.service ON
ETHERNET/WIFI/DONGLE FROM localhost AND BUSY FROM EXTERN
739[16:57:39] <kennoodle> URGENT ->PLEASE TO MEET U, TELL
DEBIAN TEAM TO LISTENING systemd-resolve.service ON
ETHERNET/WIFI/DONGLE FROM localhost AND BUSY FROM EXTERN
740[16:57:47] <kennoodle> URGENT ->PLEASE TO MEET U, TELL
DEBIAN TEAM TO LISTENING systemd-resolve.service ON
ETHERNET/WIFI/DONGLE FROM localhost AND BUSY FROM EXTERN
741[16:57:48] <kennoodle> URGENT ->PLEASE TO MEET U, TELL
DEBIAN TEAM TO LISTENING systemd-resolve.service ON
ETHERNET/WIFI/DONGLE FROM localhost AND BUSY FROM EXTERN
742[16:57:48] <kennoodle> URGENT ->PLEASE TO MEET U, TELL
DEBIAN TEAM TO LISTENING systemd-resolve.service ON
ETHERNET/WIFI/DONGLE FROM localhost AND BUSY FROM EXTERN
743[16:57:48] *** Quits: kennoodle (badf930b@replaced-ip) (Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)))
744[16:57:58] <unborn> oh flooding again?
745[16:58:01] * e pats Sigyn
746[16:58:32] <JordiGH> e: I'm just surprised about
greycat. I thought he was older.
747[16:58:40] <greycat> I am older.
748[16:58:46] <JordiGH> It's okay, young people don't
know what a rotary phone is either.
749[16:58:50] <greycat> Maybe I'm old enough not to give a
crap about some of this stuff.
752[16:59:13] <JordiGH> So maybe he wasn't hacking on Linux
in 1998.
753[16:59:32] <JordiGH> Linus himself used a bunch of words to
describe Linux before 1998 but never "open source".
754[16:59:38] <greycat> Maybe you, and you alone, are caught up
in this "frequent flamewar" that nobody else seems to see.
755[16:59:42] <JordiGH> And the marketing thing was huge back
then. Tim O'Reilly put a lot of money into it.
756[16:59:43] <e> JordiGH: people can be old and not think what
you think. you're sounding arrogant as heck right now. also,
one can be aware of the OSI and their official definition and still
not think it's what people normally mean by "open
source"
757[16:59:44] <unborn> and well respected, not just for his
computing skills.. trust me greycat is great cat
758[17:00:08] <JordiGH> e: everyone's been fooled by OSI to
use their word without even knowing it.
760[17:00:18] <JordiGH> And used it to mean something else now.
761[17:00:19] <EdePopede> JordiGH: most people would consider
themselves knowing how computers and internet works. usually that
means they know they have to press the blue e (sry for the hl) on
the screen to open it on their computer. (that's from an older
interrogation, but the results should still be valid)
767[17:00:59] <JordiGH> And people *do* have this argument.
I'm not the only one going around saying, "that's not
what open source means". I can show you the arguments.
768[17:01:04] <EdePopede> JordiGH: so "most people"
isn't a base to argue, if you have to, go for "most people
with a clue on that particular topic"
769[17:01:21] <unborn> JordiGH: regards linux and linus.. as you
said you should do beeper research about it.. man this is well off
topic, lets get focus on debian guys shall we?
773[17:02:29] <jelly> can be get back to tech support? For
semantics and semiotics there's ##English, for arguments
#debian-offtopic, and I don't even see the question any more
774[17:02:31] <unborn> EdePopede: I have no eyes so you have to
slap me or poke JordiGH eyes or perhaps some elses ;)
775[17:02:41] *** Quits: zyun (~zyun@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
777[17:03:00] <unborn> EdePopede: shoot it out.. how we can help
you
778[17:03:09] <EdePopede> i did a new install of 10.1 on the
other pc. only really basic things. unchecked the 3 default
selections from the installer. 200 something packages. then
installed xorg and xterm. 'startx', works. nice.
779[17:03:11] <EdePopede> now i was going for a wm. found just a
handful on the 3 DVDs, decided to install awesome. did the usual
'apt-get -s install' to know *what* it would fetch. looked
good, i did it. ended up with config errors, 3 packages missing:
libxcb-xrm0, libxcb-xtest0, libxdg-basedir1. though all of them were
in the list in the dry-run. so, what's the best way to fix it
and how can this even happen?
785[17:03:56] <EdePopede> maybe i could just go on with
installing them manually, but i'd like to get an answer about
the why and how, before i change the system state
786[17:04:01] <greycat> EdePopede: fix your sources.list
787[17:04:14] <unborn> EdePopede: first of all you can adopt apt
install...command but I think you looking for libxcb-xrm0
788[17:04:15] <Haohmaru> you know the cat is old when it's
grey
789[17:04:16] <EdePopede> greycat: the 3 DVDs. nothing else.
790[17:04:18] <jelly> EdePopede: can you pastebin actual output
of -s and the failing non -s command?
791[17:04:28] <unborn> man I am too slow to reply :/
807[17:07:05] <EdePopede> oh, i just see.. die DVD image is
still mounted. installed packages from #1 first, then asked for #3.
auto-unmounted #1 before this. i thought this would also happen with
this one now that it ... somehow finished
808[17:07:37] <EdePopede> jelly: here yes, there no. remember
the old dos days. a pc. a user. in a room. :)
821[17:10:01] <EdePopede> jelly: not here. all i ever had was an
old nokia (iirc) for some years, found out i don't really need
it. didn't have a camera anyway, but T9 and MMS!!!
824[17:10:42] <EdePopede> that is, i do have a cam somewhere,
but hell knows its position right now... should have bought some of
these RFID tags years ago
842[17:18:12] <EdePopede> uh, what's that now? attached the
external HDD in its USB box to this PC and just in that moment i
lost the sound in the video playing here. (mplayer, pulseaudio). had
to plug out and in again the cable, then it was back. in PA's
Output Devices tab i only had something digital left, now it shows
Line Out and Headphones again.
843[17:18:25] <EdePopede> so, now i'll prepare the paste
849[17:20:18] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with
apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information:
1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the
command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1
pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem,
and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use
replaced-url
875[17:29:03] <Haohmaru> i was thinking it might mean "in
this situation, when they don't cooperate much - hit them with
teh bat!"
876[17:29:29] <unborn> Haohmaru: I do not think so, EdePopede
have problem and to best understanding here jelly did some forensics
around not to scare the person but to understand better what happen
to him as that user was very specific and have quiet know-how..
there is no scary bat in debian, debian is awesome and the door to
future
886[17:30:51] <greycat> Lazy beta testers, criticizing the
English grammar instead of the fact that it claimed I had asked
something 1 second ago, when I didn't.
887[17:31:07] *** Quits: Tom01 (~tom@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
888[17:31:12] <unborn> :D
889[17:31:15] <moistmoskito> greycat: my statement covers your
issue
890[17:31:22] <EdePopede> uh, the line in history.log is 5090c
long, is it really needed? :D
907[17:34:36] <unborn> greycat: if I wouldnt know you I would
say - its not debian since you are my mentor regards bash and I love
you whatever you might say man
908[17:34:42] <Haohmaru> couldn't come up with anything
better
909[17:34:56] <unborn> but youre always right greycat
916[17:36:35] <greycat> dpkg basic apt-get troubleshooting =~
s/In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or
aptitude we/[Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem,
we/
930[17:39:05] <dpkg> To provide command output in English
instead of your native language, set your locale to an English one
(e.g. C) prior to running the command, e.g. "LC_ALL=C apt-get
-f install".
931[17:39:08] <EdePopede> bats are fantastic creatures btw, no
need to misuse them :P
951[17:48:54] <jelly> the checke for packages that are "not
needed any more" are done every time, and do not affect other
state.
952[17:48:58] <jelly> checks*
953[17:48:58] *** Quits: itamarst (uid165457@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
954[17:49:04] <EdePopede> jelly: installed the 3, finished setup
of awsome. incl. update-alternatives. they were on DVD-2 which i was
not even asked to insert when i did the install
960[17:51:35] <EdePopede> what step? all i did is 'apt-get
install' and inserted (and mounted) the DVDs as it was asking.
1 first, then 3. with the wrong DVD on the mountpoint (asking for
#2, i mount #3) i'm pretty sure it would lament. going to test
this later, still missing a display manager.
965[17:52:27] <greycat> You only scanned *two* of the physical
media to be added as apt-sources? And the stuff that it was missing
was on the other one, which was not scanned?
967[17:53:00] <EdePopede> that's the plan for that machine
too. want to have a usable environment first, then fire up jigdo
here and move them to the other machine. building up an isolated
mirror. with what method ever, will have to look for it later
1158[18:49:45] <Stx> warsoul: either they are not running, or you
got a rootkit installed which changed the "ps" binary, or
you simply arent seeing it. Try ps -u <his user> to get some
more filtered/specific output
1184[18:59:26] *** fourhundredtheca is now known as FH_thecat
1185[18:59:28] <Stx> warsoul: I dont know every process name for
the VMs, but if you see something about "qemu" or
"virt/virtd" or "docker" in the output from
"ps aux" there is probably a container/VM running and
those processes wouldnt be shown from the "ps aux"
1216[19:02:49] <SerajewelKS> Stx: right, i was correcting only
the container part of that statement: "there is probably a
container/VM running and those processes wouldnt be shown from the
"ps aux""
1217[19:02:56] <SerajewelKS> Stx: you were right about VMs but
not about containers
1241[19:11:11] <cheapie> Huh, I guess I no longer need to get
around to troubleshooting the slow boot issues on my laptop, as one
of the recent updates fixed it :P
1244[19:12:30] <cheapie> No idea what the problem actually *was*
(aside from that it seems to only happen with 4Kn boot drives and
involved that local-block script running like 30 times before it
booted), but at any rate, it works properly now.
1245[19:12:51] *** Quits: krabador (~krabador@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1257[19:15:02] <cheapie> I think it's a WD "SN520"
SSD or something like that. Came with the laptop.
1258[19:15:06] <warsoul> how do i add a sudo user
1259[19:15:07] <warsoul> >
1260[19:15:08] <warsoul> ?
1261[19:15:33] <greycat> To enable a user to use sudo for *Any*
command, put them in the "sudo" group.
1262[19:15:34] <Boohbah> warsoul: visudo as root
1263[19:15:47] <greycat> you don't have to edit sudoers, or
run visudo
1264[19:15:49] <jelly> warsoul: on debian the simplese thing to
do is add the user to the sudo group, "adduser usernamehere
sudo", and they they have to log off and log in again
1265[19:15:55] <greycat> unless you only want them to be able to
sudo *some* commands
1273[19:17:11] <cheapie> jelly: FWIW, Debian does seem to handle
booting from a 4Kn drive fine, at least now after whatever recent
updates landed in testing, everything seems 100% working, and the
drive is actually turning out slightly higher performance numbers
than the specs claim now.
1277[19:18:04] <cheapie> I mean, not *much* higher - this
isn't some magic "this one command doubles your SSD
speed!" thing, but it is at least a marginal improvement over
512e mode.
1345[19:45:36] *** Quits: arthurpbs (~arthurpbs@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1346[19:46:02] <wernstrom> tom_work, I'm not sure what it
has to do with systemd other than some change to a kernel
configuration value was put in at the time the vuln came about, I
suppose the diligent tester would revert that change and see if the
problem was still reproducible?
1347[19:46:12] *** Quits: OS-58756 (~OS-58756@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1350[19:47:21] *** Quits: arthurpbs (~arthurpbs@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1351[19:47:23] <tom_work> Can you? systemd forces a lot of kernel
parameters a certain way. I know because I build custom kernels a
lot and if it's running systemd there's a very special way
systemd needs the .config
1352[19:47:31] <Habbie> that is the only thing it has to do with
systemd
1353[19:47:37] <Habbie> systemd changed the default for the
rp_filter parameter
1404[19:58:45] <Miles8of9> i need to write the first debian iso
file to an usb pendrive, i'm doing it with Rufus and it asks me
if i want to write it in "iso" or in "dd"
mode... what should i choose? it's an .iso file so... iso.. ?
1411[19:59:30] <nvz> Miles8of9: uhh because the debian
documention specifically says not to, and to use w32diskimager
1412[19:59:34] <nvz> !rufus
1413[19:59:34] <dpkg> rufus is a tool that can be used to make
bootable USB devices under Windows. It is not recommended for use
with Debian CD/DVD images, as it mangles the installer in cruel and
unusual ways, resulting in hard to debug problems. Ask me about
<hybrid images>, <usb install>, <win32diskimager>.
1415[19:59:53] <sponix> nvz: tool from etcher.io does well :)
1416[20:00:34] <nvz> Miles8of9: our images are not normal cd
images, they are hybrid images, they are already ready to be written
directly to any media.. so tools like unetbootin and rufus just
mangle them up and cause unsupportable issues
1423[20:01:55] <NetTerminalGene> Sleaker, they should look at
faster
1424[20:02:53] *** Quits: JimVibe (~user@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1425[20:03:27] <nvz> Miles8of9: if you're stubborn or have
no other choice, the dd mode sounds closer but I have no idea what
rufus does and most of us here dont.. all we know is the release
notes say specifically not to use it.. so we're not gonna be
able to support any issues you have with the installer
1426[20:04:37] <Sleaker> NetTerminalGene: if you need it
immediately you can always just go to sid or just install directly
from mozilla...
1427[20:04:50] <NetTerminalGene> no
1428[20:04:52] <rainfyre> Miles8of9: it's really
straightforward to just use the dd command to make your bootable iso
1430[20:05:19] <Miles8of9> rainfyre, have no linux machine to use
dd
1431[20:05:25] <nvz> rainfyre: no.. first of all only cp is
required, secondly if someone is using rufus chances are
they're on windows an have no dd command
1437[20:07:02] <dpkg> win32diskimager is much more reliable than
<unetbootin> for copying ISO images to USB sticks and you can
download it from
replaced-url
1438[20:07:10] <rainfyre> nvz: interesting, didn't know that
cp would work all by itself :) I've always used dd
1439[20:07:11] <karlpinc> Miles8of9: Using the unoffical debian
installer with non-free firmware included can save a lot of non-free
firmware hassle.
1440[20:07:16] <karlpinc> !firmware images
1441[20:07:17] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images
containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available
from
replaced-url
1442[20:07:37] <nvz> rainfyre: the images are hybrid images..
nothing special is required anymore.. cp debian.iso /dev/sdc or such
works fine
1449[20:09:12] <jhutchins_wk> karlpinc: Windows approach to
hardware is a very different model.
1450[20:09:19] <nvz> karlpinc: does powershell have some means of
writing directly to a device? afaik windows never had any sort of
block layer or device filesystem or such like linux does
1455[20:10:29] <nvz> karlpinc: me either.. thats why I dont
support it anymore :P
1456[20:10:33] *** Quits: bmeneg_ (~bmeneg@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1457[20:11:17] <karlpinc> Miles8of9: The netinstall contains what
you need to download a complete system, plus the unoffical
netinstall contains the non-free firmware you might need. The
offical installer requires you manually download your own non-free
firmware.
1459[20:11:52] <karlpinc> Miles8of9: By using the netinstall you
download only what you need. If you download a DVD image (or
whatever) you'll wind up downloading a lot that does not get
installed.
1460[20:12:32] *** Quits: arthurpbs (~arthurpbs@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1461[20:12:35] <karlpinc> Miles8of9: The installer downloads what
it needs as it runs.
1462[20:12:46] <Miles8of9> non free firmware means drivers for
radeon cards, atheros wifi chips etc?
1467[20:13:31] <karlpinc> Miles8of9: Yes. Or stuff like that. I
forget. If you want your hardware to work you often need non-free
firmware.
1468[20:13:35] <wernstrom> the powershell question is a
"maybe" seems convoluted though:
replaced-url
1469[20:13:48] <karlpinc> Miles8of9: Not "drivers".
"Firmware".
1470[20:13:57] <karlpinc> !firmware
1471[20:13:57] <dpkg> Firmware is software to operate electronic
devices, usually contained in EPROM or flash memory. Some Linux
kernel drivers require firmware to be provided from userspace,
notably for <WiFi> devices. Most firmware files are not part
of a Debian release as they do not conform to the <DFSG>; some
are available via <contrib> and <non-free> packages, ask
me about <search>. See also <installer firmware>.
replaced-url
1477[20:16:22] <Miles8of9> firmware as i know it is a piece of
software that is written inside eprom chips and ok.. does it mean
that linux overwrites that eprom on every boot? Oo
1478[20:16:22] <karlpinc> Miles8of9: The kernel will still need
its drivers to run the hardware, some of which may also be in the
non-free section, etc. But it is eaiser to install the right driver
after the installer finishes than find and install the right
firmware. Sometimes you have a choice of drivers. Not true of
firmware.
1483[20:18:09] <karlpinc> Miles8of9: These days the os can be
responsible for firmware loading, or initialization or I don't
know what. I haven't kept up.
1486[20:19:40] <Miles8of9> one hard to answer question... video
card is radeon hd 7640g + 7470m, processor is amd a8-4500m ... does
linux support it? it's a bit old.. 2013
1487[20:19:42] *** Quits: hummingbee (~humbag@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1505[20:24:08] <greycat> for the record I don't see 7640 in
the pkg description of firmware-amd-graphics on buster
1506[20:24:10] <karlpinc> Miles8of9: Old drivers tend to remain
supported nearly forever, unlike priprietary drivers where the
manufacturer wants you to buy something new.
1507[20:24:18] *** ed_peguillan_ is now known as ed_peguillan
1508[20:24:31] <Miles8of9> greycat, right...! that's why i
was asking!
1509[20:25:28] <karlpinc> Miles8of9: Easiest is to try it and
see. Maybe it works like an older card, only with some special
extras that you might not miss.
1510[20:25:59] <greycat> the lack of an actual answer on
replaced-url
1530[20:36:05] <jelly> (looking at that dmesg and my vague
memorise of a HD 7450, I _think_ that one probably ought to boot and
get framebuffer and 2d working even without firmware, and needs fw
for 3d)
1538[20:38:42] <greycat> far as I know, SNMP doesn't
broadcast... it listens for requests, and the client has to request
the exact pieces of data that it wants to see
1559[20:45:13] <jelly> brimestone: there are two options of
collecting info via SNMP, 1) polling snmpd on remote systems or 2)
making remote systems send traps
1560[20:45:23] *** Quits: PetiteF26 (~textual@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1569[20:48:12] <jelly> that page seems to use the former, adding
some OIDs to snmpd.conf via "extend" functionality. The
way you phrased your questions kind of implies you want snmp traps
instead
1570[20:48:15] <brimestone> I have a working monitoring SNMP dump
via a server to my Zabbix/Grafana.. but I want to add smartctl data
to the output of my server
1576[20:51:19] <jelly> brimestone: if your monitoring system
actually does somthing like a regular snmpwalk or snmpget from the
machines you want to monitor, then that's option 1), you can
put basically any command to be executed in an extend line in
snmpd.conf, as that page says:
1580[20:52:14] <greycat> looks like it's *already* being
parsed by a shell
1581[20:52:26] <brimestone> @jelly thats what I'm trying to
figure out.. I see a lot of mibs here /usr/share/snmp/mibs but im
not sure which one is active
1603[20:58:11] <brimestone> so I have to copy this
replaced-url
1604[20:58:36] <WoC> is there some sort of config file for
systemd to change the default "runlevel" ? - As with SysV;
for graphical start up; 'init 5' and non grahpical
startup; 'init 3'
1605[20:58:58] <somiaj> WoC: they are called targets, and you can
use systemctl to set the default target.
1620[21:02:17] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1621[21:02:45] <jelly> brimestone: and since debian does not run
snmpd as root any more, you'll either have to use sudo like
that, or generate statistics say from a root cron job, and only put
a command like "/bin/cat
/path/to/check_smart_disk_output.txt" in snmpd.conf
1622[21:03:21] <jelly> brimestone: if a command collecting stats
takes long to run, it's better not to use it directly in
snmpd.conf
1644[21:12:02] <jelly> you will probably want to track more than
just whether the devices says "health check PASSED" vs
"health check FAILED", since you have zabbix, you can
track temperature and number of pending and uncorrectable errors and
warn when those change
1670[21:30:11] <rileyd> I can't connect to my debian 10
server over IPv6. It has a link-local IPv6 address, but not a global
IPv6 address, as shown by "ip a". I can connect to other
servers over IPv6. I have ufw installed, but it is currently
disabled while I'm testing this. What should I do?
1671[21:30:55] <rileyd> To test it I am simply using `nc -l -p
8080` on the server and `telnet <ip> 8080` on the client
1681[21:33:21] <Dagger> try `rdisc6` and see if SLAAC is enabled,
but a lot of VPSs just expect you to manually configure them
(because heaven forbid things just work out of the box...)
1697[21:37:24] <Dagger> if you're not receiving any RAs
you'd have to set the default route manually anyway, since
that's the only way to automatically set a default route
1698[21:37:30] *** Quits: arthurpbs (~arthurpbs@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1722[21:45:43] <WoC> Any suggestions on how to set up my own
repository ? I strive to populate it with local builds with cpu
specific build using the main source repository. Or if there is a
tool for that? given there is build farms for a number of cpus
1723[21:46:21] <rileyd> so i put "iface eth0 inet6
static\naddress ...\ngateway ..." in
/etc/network/interfaces.d/10-ipv6.cfg, now how do i reload it? do i
need to ifdown eth0 and ifup eth0 ?
1724[21:46:28] <WoC> Any suggestions would be very much
appreciated
1725[21:46:44] <rileyd> substitute \n for physical \n and ... for
values provided by my VPS provider
1726[21:47:23] <rileyd> do i need a netmask line? i wasn't
given one
1737[21:51:56] <Dagger> even if you have a netmask, you still
only have one IP. the mask gives you the size of the networks, not
the number of IPs you get from that network
1738[21:52:24] <whislock> All allocated IPv6 addresses will have
a prefix length of /64, unless your provider is insane.
1739[21:52:26] <WoC> right, the subnet
1740[21:52:50] <WoC> unless he has a special provider who use
/128
1741[21:53:15] <whislock> That's possible, yeah.
1742[21:53:21] <brimestone> @jelly I've tweaked the script
to expose "uncorrected errors". How do I include that
output with the SNMP broadcast?
1743[21:53:54] *** Quits: krabador (~krabador@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1769[22:13:53] *** Quits: Vizva (~Vizva@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1770[22:13:57] <nvz> WoC: I doubt anyone has made software to
both setup a repository and build from source.. those are two
different things.. you'd need some sort of CI software to do
the building
1771[22:14:08] *** Quits: gormenghast (~gormengha@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1779[22:17:08] <nvz> building packages from source and making a
respository are two different things.. open developers typically
seperate tasks into different projects..
1780[22:17:15] <nvz> what you are asking is two different things
1786[22:20:31] <nvz> WoC: irc.debian.org which points to
irc.oftc.net either would get you in the right place.. I'm not
sure which channel is most appropriate but #debian-mentors on that
network would perhaps be a good place to start.
1787[22:20:58] <nvz> WoC: that channel is for "Support for
new contributors with questions on packaging and Debian
infrastructure projects/services. See also the debian-mentors
mailing list."
1788[22:21:05] <nvz> and sounds to me like you
1789[22:21:18] <nvz> would like to better understand how debian
packages are built automatically from source
1791[22:21:44] <nvz> I'm sure there is someone in there that
could at the very least point you in the right direction on that
1792[22:21:58] <WoC> ok, great, ty
1793[22:22:36] <nvz> WoC: this used to be the official network
and this is still the larger support channel for general debian
questions but we are mostly just users helping users with general
stuff.. the developers would know more about the kinds of things you
want to do
1794[22:23:50] <WoC> well, fist, make ppc64 (PPC970/G5) specific
builds with all the safe optimizing applied
1795[22:24:11] *** Quits: bliv (~bliv@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1796[22:24:20] <WoC> hopefully aarch64 in the future as well
1797[22:25:07] <WoC> just waiting for the 64 bit arm powered
workstations to go down in price to reasonable levels
1798[22:26:09] <greycat> dpkg, flw81 is
<songbird@anthive.com> there is no issue to be worried about.
this isn't a production system facing the wider world.
1826[22:45:35] <FleaFart> Why is time required when installing
Debian; or why is internet required during the install, is it to get
internet time? If so, does anyone know why time is important to the
setup and configuration of Debian ?
1830[22:46:51] <greycat> a more applicable response might be, why
do YOU believe that you should try to prevent your system from
knowing the correct date and time?
1831[22:47:25] <FleaFart> yes, but all the packages on a new dvd
are matched with all the rest at the time of creating the dvd. so
that doesn't explain why internet is require to install.
1836[22:47:49] <greycat> Joy. Like I needed more of that today.
1837[22:48:59] *** Quits: panga (~panga@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1838[22:49:33] <FleaFart> if you see every question as a troll
then please Don't reply to me. Sadly, my questions are to
learn, what is wrong with that?
1841[22:50:53] <FleaFart> for anyone that wants to HELP, I have a
system time ERROR saying that I am out of time, I can not remember
were I seen the error and I would like to know how to fix.
1842[22:51:21] <FleaFart> NOT greycat
1843[22:51:46] <FleaFart> he is ignored and I wouldn't see
he posts.
1844[22:51:58] <nkuttler> FleaFart: we don't need to know
who you ignore, please move on
1845[22:52:45] <FleaFart> he just replied OK to ignoring me, I
replied in kind.
1877[23:12:37] <Miles8of9> yes... i've downloaded firmware
iso and i'm ready tu write it to usb pendrive
1878[23:13:19] <nvz> Miles8of9: i'm not sure of modern
windows.. but you could always pull up device manager go to
properties and on one of the tabs find the pciid of a device listed
1900[23:20:23] *** Quits: MrAlexandr0 (~MrAlexand@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1901[23:20:55] <nvz> ,pciid 1002:9903
1902[23:20:56] <judd> [1002:9903] is 'Trinity [Radeon HD
7640G]' from 'Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]'
with kernel modules 'snd-hda-intel', 'radeon' in
stretch. See also
replaced-url
1907[23:22:07] <judd> [1002:6760] is 'Seymour [Radeon HD
6400M/7400M Series]' from 'Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
[AMD/ATI]' with kernel modules 'snd-hda-intel',
'radeon' in stretch. See also
replaced-url
1908[23:22:56] <Miles8of9> ok! so i need to install stretch, not
buster
1909[23:23:02] <nvz> Miles8of9: no..
1910[23:23:18] <nvz> Miles8of9: judd's pciid lookup is just
out of date.. there is no reason it wont work on buster
1911[23:23:30] <karlpinc> Miles8of9: No. The package
xserver-xorg-video-radeon is in buster and will probably
automatically be installed by the installer. If not, you can install
it.
1930[23:28:36] <nvz> what version I dont know, but I'd guess
probably Win7/8
1931[23:28:37] <Miles8of9> hehe... i was an old linux user... red
hat 4.2.. suse 5.3... debian sarge!!! i used to recompile the kernel
with all modules
1932[23:28:58] <nvz> Miles8of9: yeah, well that was a LONG time
ago..
1934[23:29:21] <nvz> if you had some bleeding edge hardware you
may have to install a 5.x kernel from backports or something maybe
1935[23:29:43] <nvz> but your hardware as stated is all older
than what I'm on.. and my machine is from 2013
1936[23:29:55] <ZaZaGX> she wants it recompiled hard
1937[23:30:09] <Miles8of9> download kernel tgz... apply various
patches... make dep.. make prop... make menuconfig
1938[23:30:44] <nvz> Miles8of9: yeah.. modern kernel compiling
isnt quite the same either.. making debian packages for the kernel
is now mainlined
1939[23:30:45] <Miles8of9> because make xconfig was based on
tcl/tk libraries.. :P
1940[23:31:30] <nvz> Miles8of9: I just built myself a 5.4.1
kernel a couple days ago.. only had to configure with make
menuconfig then make deb-pkg then install the deb packages with dpkg
-i
1941[23:31:50] <nvz> and it wasnt necessary.. I just haven't
built one since 2.6 and wanted to familiarize myself
1950[23:33:55] <nvz> Miles8of9: they can load a new kernel into
memory and jump to it without restarting the machine, they can load
patches as modules..etc
1951[23:35:21] <Miles8of9> i compiled lots of libraries and
software by hand.... because at that time there was no packages
update... debian released new packages by applying patches to
existing sources
1952[23:35:41] <Miles8of9> red hat and suse.. ZERO new versions
of packages
1953[23:35:57] <nvz> not in sarge..cause I first came to debian
around 2002-2003ish and it was 2.2 (Potato) which is much older than
sarge
1954[23:36:00] <Miles8of9> buy/download next version!
1955[23:36:20] <h4x0riz3d> huh, sorry for "potato"
1956[23:36:22] <h4x0riz3d> x_x
1957[23:36:31] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1958[23:36:45] <nvz> yeah well I'd burned a 3 disc set of
2.2r6 and installed it, and a few days later Woody I think it was
released
1959[23:36:49] <nvz> felt stupid :P
1960[23:37:21] <Miles8of9> debian stable was simply stable
because it was not moving at all!! :D
1961[23:37:41] <nvz> it still doesnt really move.. but ever since
I been using it there have been security updates
1971[23:39:06] <nvz> I'd come across Debian.org and read two
documents that changed my life.. the Why Debian and Social
Contract.. and those things haven't changed..
1972[23:39:10] <nvz> !why debian
1973[23:39:10] <dpkg> Debian strives to maintain your freedom
whilst also paying close attention to the technical aspects of
making a great OS. Debian is stable, upgradable and well tested. See
also
replaced-url
1974[23:39:13] <nvz> !social contract
1975[23:39:13] <dpkg> The Debian Social Contract is the document
that defines Debian's purpose, see
replaced-url
1977[23:39:40] <nvz> I recommend anyone considering debian read
those.. and if that sounds good to you, then Debian's for you..
if not.. then its not for you :P
1981[23:41:01] <nvz> yes well, as I said.. those things
haven't changed
1982[23:41:16] <nvz> we do update the browsers.. as you can see..
the 68 goes all the way back to jessie
1983[23:41:46] <nvz> but that doesnt mean we go bleeding edge..
we just still do security fixes and when needed, we have newer
versions of some things
1984[23:42:13] <annadane> or just download firefox from
mozilla's site
1985[23:42:14] <Miles8of9> firefox 68 release date July 9, 2019
1986[23:42:16] *** Quits: Clarth (~Clarth@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1987[23:42:30] <nvz> yeah.. like 6mo ago..
1988[23:42:34] <nvz> !buster
1989[23:42:34] <dpkg> Buster is the codename for the current
<stable> release, Debian 10, released 2019-07-06.
"Buster" is Andy's pet Dachsund in Toy Story, see
replaced-url
1990[23:43:02] <nvz> buster was released 2 days earlier
1991[23:43:20] <annadane> firefox is basically the one thing i
want the latest version of
1992[23:43:30] <Habbie> if anybody can edit that dpkg thing
1993[23:43:36] <Habbie> it's dachshund
1994[23:44:02] *** Quits: B-3-N (~B-E-N@replaced-ip) (Quit: I'll be back)
2027[23:52:34] <nvz> for people who arent very savvy I often
install pidgin and setup freenode/oftc and put the bots and channels
in their buddy list and explain to them they have to join #debian to
use the bots in a private message
2028[23:53:21] <jim> annadane, you mean for the bots?
2030[23:53:32] <nvz> pidgin is a rather crappy irc client, but I
like to use it on machines I install for people who dont know much..
cause its easier for them to grok and can also work with other
messaging protocols they may want to use
2031[23:53:48] <jim> it's actually, if you're on any
channel the bot is also on
2032[23:54:07] <jim> and not all the bots have that restriction
2046[23:57:17] <nvz> but they cant say I didnt make them aware of
it :P
2047[23:57:46] <Miles8of9> how can you "jump" into the
new kernel without rebooting??? Oo
2048[23:58:09] <somiaj> Miles8of9: not easially
2049[23:58:45] <Miles8of9> it's just safer to reboot :D
2050[23:59:02] <nvz> Miles8of9: you use a program called kexec
one command loads the kernel and optionally initrd and commandline,
the other issues a kexec() jump call.. its effect is essentially
that of a reboot.. but the machine itself doesnt reboot
2051[23:59:18] <nvz> Miles8of9: just saying, a LOT has changed
over the years