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• 52[00:44:29] <michael2> does anyone use bluetooth with debian stable? is it ready for end users? it seems to me to be a mostly broken unusable system?
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• 86[01:21:23] <michael2> does debian have any useful documentation about the sound sub-system?
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• 89[01:23:33] <rhizome> michael2: IME, not really. what's going on?
• 90[01:25:25] <michael2> rhizome: my bluetooth stopped working, then my laptop's loudspeaker stopped working. and I don't know where to start the diagnosis/trouble shooting
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• 96[01:31:47] <rhizome> michael2: sounds unrelated. check /var/log/messages for bluetooth info first, that's probably going to be the easiest first.
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• 100[01:34:28] <michael2> rhizome: no kernel messages for bluetooth when I restart bluetooth daemon. but Im getting this when I log the bluetooth daemon itself:
• 101[01:34:59] <michael2> Aug 07 11:06:59 laptop bluetoothd[17839]: Sap driver initialization failed.
• 102[01:35:00] <michael2> Aug 07 11:06:59 laptop bluetoothd[17839]: sap-server: Operation not permitted (1)
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• 106[01:36:48] <michael2> when I google those bluetooth error messages, I cant find any explanation
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• 108[01:38:45] <michael2> also, I don't know which service would I log to get messages for the loudspeakers integrated audio controller?
• 109[01:40:44] <rhizome> sudo service bluetooth status
• 110[01:41:24] <rhizome> for sound you probably have alsa at least, and probably pulseaudio on top of that
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• 115[01:46:17] <michael2> rhizome: `sudo service bluetooth status' was the command which gave me those error messages I posted above. do you know how to log pulseaudio? would pulse audio daemon print messages related to my integrated audio card going down?
• 116[01:46:45] <rhizome> you can just do `pulseaudio -k` and it will restart
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• 118[01:47:43] <michael2> I just did that, now when I start pavucontrol . there are no sinks available at all?
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• 120[01:48:46] <rhizome> try playing something, the sinks disappear when idle
• 121[01:49:12] <rhizome> or check the devices tab just to see if it sees anything anywhere
• 122[01:50:57] <michael2> rhizome: yes, I did all that. I guess Im looking at a complete re-install of debian to fix
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• 124[01:51:39] <rhizome> nah, shouldn't be necessary
• 125[01:52:05] <rhizome> what are you using to play audio? try vlc, since there's output configuration there that you don't get in browsers.
• 126[01:52:24] <rhizome> what does alsamix show?
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• 128[01:53:03] <michael2> well, I guess it comes down to whats easier? complete re-install involving well known - if somewhat tedious steps. or some completely unfixable problem - which may take 5 minutes or make take 2 months to fix?
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• 130[01:53:38] <michael2> rhizome: I tried playing video in firefox and in vlc
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• 133[01:54:28] <michael2> the only audio output option I have in vlc is "dummy device"
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• 135[01:55:04] <michael2> oh, its actually "dummy output"
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• 138[01:57:25] <rhizome> for "Output module?"
• 139[02:00:32] <michael2> rhizome: in vlc, from the top level menu. I clicked on [audio] dropdown menu, from there I click on [audio device] that displayed a list of devices - which only had one entry
• 140[02:00:53] <michael2> "dummy output"
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• 145[02:02:48] <rhizome> i was looking at Tools > Preference > Audio tab > Output module
• 146[02:02:53] <CFS-MP3> newbie question... how can I still a specific linux-image version that was in backports but it's not (apparently), anymore? Specificaly, I want 4.16, but backports already installs 4.17. I need 4.16 because it's the one that currently works with VirtualBox
• 147[02:03:01] <CFS-MP3> how I can install I meant
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• 153[02:08:00] <michael2> rhizome: I see that now. when I do that I get a list of options like: "pulse audio output", "alsa audio output" etc. none of them do anything
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• 155[02:08:45] <rhizome> michael2: set it to alsa, then check the "Device:" dropdown
• 156[02:09:12] <annadane> !snapshots
• 157[02:09:12] <dpkg> replaced-url
• 158[02:09:14] <annadane> CFS-MP3, ^
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• 160[02:12:30] <michael2> rhizome: ok, I set it to alsa screenshot: replaced-url
• 161[02:13:13] <rhizome> ok, can you play anything in vlc?
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• 166[02:16:10] <michael2> rhizome: first, when I click that "device" dropdown , I get a huge list of devices, which one do I choose? when its set to "pulseaudio" no sound is played - and no sinks appear in pavucontrol
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• 171[02:19:29] <rhizome> you can try to play vlc directly through alsa, see if you can figure out a device that works. choose something simple like analog (or digital) stereo in/out
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• 174[02:21:34] <michael2> rhizome: yes, I tried that none of them worked
• 175[02:21:56] <rhizome> that was fast, i have like 50 entries in mine ;)
• 176[02:23:07] <rhizome> what do you see in alsamix? oh, and does the time move when you play something in vlc?
• 177[02:23:21] <rhizome> [the bar in vlc]
• 178[02:23:26] <michael2> same, I tried the first dozen or so most obvious ones. Im assuming if no sound works with stereo, then it definitely won't work with 7.1 channel surround sound etc
• 179[02:23:36] <rhizome> sure
• 180[02:23:47] <rhizome> less /var/log/messages see if anything popped up there
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• 182[02:24:21] <michael2> video plays fine in vlc - just no sound appears. I don't have alsamixer installed. I'll try install now
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• 186[02:25:33] <rhizome> oh, is it in alsa-utils?
• 187[02:25:50] <rhizome> sbt
• 188[02:25:54] <michael2> hmm, I'll try
• 189[02:26:08] <rhizome> alsam[tab]
• 190[02:27:15] <michael2> thanks, dpkg is installing "alsa-utils" now
• 191[02:29:22] <michael2> ok, alsa-utils is installed, and Ive started alsamixer "UI"
• 192[02:29:43] <michael2> so do I try choosing alsamixer device from vlc now?
• 193[02:30:19] <rhizome> no, run alsamixer just to see what shows up
• 194[02:31:02] <rhizome> hit f6 and see what it thinks you have
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• 197[02:31:17] <rhizome> also how many meters does it give you
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• 199[02:33:26] <michael2> rhizome: here is what F6 gives in alsamixer: replaced-url
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• 201[02:34:07] <rhizome> so you're probably going to want to select the intel
• 202[02:34:17] <rhizome> which thinkpad btw
• 203[02:34:25] <michael2> thinkpad edge
• 204[02:34:46] <michael2> wouldn't mind the x220
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• 206[02:35:07] <michael2> ok, selecting the intel gives alot more mixers
• 207[02:35:19] <Tenacious-Techhu> When I kill the processes of the current user logged into the GUI from a different Virtual Console, why am I switched from the other Virtual Console to the one the GUI is in? How do I prevent that switch?
• 208[02:36:41] <rhizome> Tenacious-Techhu: you mean like ctrl-alt-f4 or whatever?
• 209[02:36:57] <Tenacious-Techhu> rhizome, like the following:
• 210[02:37:16] <Tenacious-Techhu> 1. ctrl-alt-f6
• 211[02:37:29] <Tenacious-Techhu> 2. Log in as another user, escalate to root
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• 214[02:38:23] <Tenacious-Techhu> 3. Log out/kill user currently logged into GUI at Virtual Console 7 (ctrl-alt-f7)
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• 216[02:39:08] <Tenacious-Techhu> 4. Become confused at the currently viewed Virtual Console switching to 7 (ctrl-alt-f7), without being told to, for no apparent reason
• 217[02:39:39] <Tenacious-Techhu> What is causing that switch, and how do I prevent it?
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• 222[02:44:21] <rhizome> huh, dunno. man kill/killall might have some hints
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• 224[02:49:25] <Tenacious-Techhu> rhizome, I don't think so; I think it has more to do with how the GUI starts up/restarts/whatever; it seems like something beyond the usual bash stuff.
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• 226[02:50:13] <Tenacious-Techhu> Know anyone around here I can ask?
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• 232[02:57:24] <michael2> rhizome: oh, well its not working. thanks anyway for help, at least I learned some new things from you about vlc which is pretty cool :)
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• 354[05:26:14] <Gunni> why is installing without swap so outrageous that the installer doesn't even support it?
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• 356[05:28:17] <c-c> you need swap once memory runs out - if memory runs out and you don't have a swap the situation is "unknown"
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• 358[05:29:25] <Gunni> c-c what if it isn't ever going to run out, or that if it does, the machine might as well be down, and i'll add more
• 359[05:29:58] <Gunni> swap in my mind is "useless, permanent waste of disk space"
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• 363[05:30:42] <c-c> It can, I guess.
• 364[05:31:25] <c-c> Gunni: do you ever use sleep or hibernation?
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• 367[05:31:32] <Gunni> no, it's a server
• 368[05:31:51] <Gunni> if i select entire disk with lvm in the debian installer, it reservers swap space and i found no way to remove it and allow / to use that space
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• 370[05:33:40] <Gunni> so what i resorted to, is install the VM with the minimum amount of ram, and then increase it after installation
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• 373[05:37:23] <c-c> Gunni: ok maybe the installer has changed, but I remember accidentally making a system with swap on the root fs
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• 375[05:37:53] <c-c> strange also that I seem to have vague recollections of having swap as a file on a fs, as an alternative...
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• 377[05:38:45] <Gunni> you should try it, it's an infuriating challenge, install debian with LVM and 0 swap, GL HF
• 378[05:39:28] <Gunni> i even tried manually creating the lvm using commands, seemed to work, but then grub wouldn't install for some reason, yay
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• 380[05:40:02] <c-c> Gunni: whats so special about your server that it doesn't use a swap?
• 381[05:40:22] <Gunni> nothing special, swap is just a waste of disk space
• 382[05:40:33] <c-c> It only uses rust software so 0 memory leak bugs are 100% guaranteed?
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• 384[05:40:57] <Gunni> redundancy is better than assuming software never fails
• 385[05:41:01] <c-c> I'm sorry but your facts are not correct.
• 386[05:41:21] <c-c> You are making guesses where theres a common, well known point of failure.
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• 390[05:42:15] <Gunni> if a servers memory becomes full, i want it to crash so that it gets out of the server pool and gets replaced, a swapping server might just become slow
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• 392[05:43:48] <Gunni> if I make the mistake of adding not enough ram to a server, that's my bad, and i'll fix it by adding it in the hypervisor
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• 394[05:45:01] <c-c> Gunni: you want the server to crash, not the system
• 395[05:45:27] <Gunni> why? from my perspective they are one and the same
• 396[05:45:36] <c-c> anyway, I'm certain I don't understand your approach so better wish you good luck!
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• 399[05:46:30] <c-c> (a server is piece of software running on a system running on a kernel running on hw/vvisor)
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• 401[05:47:13] <Gunni> i said from my perspective, since a system only has one role, running the server, then distinguishing between them becomes redundant
• 402[05:48:34] <Gunni> if that sole responsobility fails (swapping/slow/oom) then the entire system fails, and either i add more ram or just restart it
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• 405[05:49:17] <c-c> Gunni: you seem confused, but let me suggest you make a swap file, perhaps some hundreds of megs to spare?
• 406[05:49:59] <Gunni> i can't the installer makes a partition that is equal in size to the ram size
• 407[05:50:23] <Gunni> my only confusion is why the installer forces me to have any swap
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• 410[05:51:17] <c-c> You can create a mini swap partition at the end of the disk space and delete it after creating a swap file replaced-url
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• 414[05:52:34] <c-c> and sorry for not being able to help you further, and please note that page is kind of old, Gunni
• 415[05:52:42] <Gunni> i tried, but couldn't get that to work
• 416[05:54:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1261
• 417[05:54:06] <c-c> Um, whats that?
• 418[05:54:27] <Gunni> user count limit?
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• 420[05:55:10] <Gunni> anyway thanks for trying c-c, appreciate it
• 421[05:56:12] <c-c> Well its an interesting point you brought up, too bad I'm bit divided between stuff so I don't quite have the time to fire up the test vm for test install to learn more
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• 424[05:59:55] <c-c> Gunni: one more point on that. Does your system use systemd?
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• 426[06:01:00] <Gunni> i have no idea, just need a few debian systems for a thing, if it comes with systemd then yes, othervise no
• 427[06:01:09] <Gunni> i prefer systemd though
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• 429[06:02:03] <Gunni> i usually run centos
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• 431[06:03:02] <c-c> So you would want to (re)conf your swap setup with systemd's systemctl, or something along those lines.
• 432[06:03:35] <c-c> replaced-url
• 433[06:03:44] <c-c> Good luck!
• 434[06:03:49] <Gunni> literally useless, the disk space is already partitioned the swap partition is there, sure i could remove it and use lvm to extend / but meh
• 435[06:04:17] <Gunni> i just installed the vm with the minimum amount of ram, much easier
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• 438[06:04:51] <Gunni> centos lets me just delete the swap partition and resize / in the installer, which is why this bugged me so much
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• 444[06:06:19] <c-c> Gunni: sounds to me like you could actually look into how the installer works.
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• 448[06:07:31] <Gunni> not really interested since i need so few machines, and my opinion on the uselessness of swap is obviously not shared so i'm not going to bother
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• 451[06:08:49] <c-c> Well, you fail at what you are doing, because you didn't bother to do your homework. Technically thats not a debian problem, so, this is off-topic here.
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• 537[07:51:57] <nirakara> hi guys. was wondering; is it worth shutting down background services that i usually use for dev, like postgresql and memcached, redis etc if I want to save battery and am not using them?
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• 539[07:52:39] <nirakara> am using a laptop and looking for ways to improve my battery life beyond the usual tools (laptopmode.tools cpufrequtils)
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• 543[07:54:52] <ksqsf> nirakara: those services will be sleeping when there are no requests, and have little impact on battery life
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• 545[07:57:15] <Haohmaru> can some cpu cores be switched off maybe?
• 546[07:57:30] <nirakara> ksqsf: thanks for the tip
• 547[07:57:42] <nirakara> Haohmaru: i would have assumed laptopmodetools/cpufrequtils is taking care of that
• 548[07:58:23] <Haohmaru> oh, then.. maybe it's already doing whatever it can
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• 575[08:30:42] <tobiasBora> Hello,
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• 578[08:31:21] <tobiasBora> I'd like to know, why debian refuses to enable by default user namespaces?
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• 602[08:49:39] <bites> tobiasBora: what for?
• 603[08:49:40] <Plasmoduck> How do I stop my bluetooth keyboard going into standby mode? If I don't type for about 3 or so minutes, it goes to sleep and it doesn't respond until I turn it off, turn off the bluetooth connection via the bluetooth manager in gnome, then turn the keyboard back on and turn the bluetooth connection back on and start pressing buttons on the keyboard. Then the keyboard will connect and start working again. This is SOOOOO annoying. It happens
• 604[08:49:40] <Plasmoduck> on Debian & Ubuntu.
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• 606[08:51:19] <bites> tobiasBora: just in general? that doesn't make much sense. in lxc? ask the lxc devs.
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• 609[08:53:03] <tobiasBora> bites: well this module is quite usefull to mount a folder as a user, and I guess it has lot's of benefits, the one I need is to mount ~/.nix into /nix in order to be able to run nix efficiently (proot is too unstable and slow)
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• 611[08:53:58] <tobiasBora> I know that others distro already enable user namespaces (at least I'm sure for ubuntu)
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• 613[08:55:05] <bites> tobiasBora: are we talking about the same thing? user namespaces is the mapping of uids used in containers for isolation.
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• 617[08:57:08] <tobiasBora> bites: well I'm not an expert, but on the internet people are talking about usernamespaces: replaced-url
• 618[08:57:52] <tobiasBora> here is a simple script that uses it: replaced-url
• 619[08:58:19] <tobiasBora> if I understood correctly, they run a lightweight container, and bind mount the good folder in /nix
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• 623[08:59:37] <bites> right. debian does support user namespaces.
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• 626[09:00:17] <tobiasBora> bites: yes, but not by default
• 627[09:01:03] <bites> yes by default. your tutorial even explains how to check.
• 628[09:01:11] <bites> what do you mean, not by default?
• 629[09:01:38] <tobiasBora> bites: well if the sys-admin does not enable this feature, I can't use it
• 630[09:02:04] <tobiasBora> and because sys-admin usually do not care this feature, they don't enable it
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• 632[09:02:22] <tobiasBora> except if the server is running ubuntu or another non-debian system
• 633[09:02:23] <bites> you don't have root access to your machine?
• 634[09:02:50] <bites> i really don't know what you mean with enable. the feature is built into the debian kernel.
• 635[09:02:52] <Haohmaru> how much "yours" is it then
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• 637[09:03:08] <tobiasBora> bites: on mine, yes, but debian is widely used as a server os, and I'd like to run nix on these remotes debian server on which I've no root access
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• 639[09:04:45] <bites> why do you have to canstantly use words you don't understand and i have to force the truth out of you?
• 640[09:05:39] <bites> user namespaces work the same way in ubuntu, arch, any other distro.
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• 643[09:07:18] <bites> even your tutorial says "Note: This assumes you have the permission to use sudo"
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• 647[09:10:27] <bites> tobiasBora: if you vps provider uses a kernel where user namespaces are disabled, you unserstand that's not a debians fault, right?
• 648[09:10:53] <bites> debian kernels have it enabled.
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• 653[09:14:39] <themill> the kernel has CONFIG_USER_NS=y but it is disabled at sysctl level (like most other distros at the moment)
• 654[09:15:05] <themill> (kernel.unprivileged_userns_clone=0)
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• 677[09:42:09] <cybrNaut> anyone know how to get signal installed on Debian?
• 678[09:42:20] <cybrNaut> this instructions are garbage => replaced-url
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• 683[09:46:58] <tvm> cybrNaut, they could work though
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• 685[09:49:21] <Haohmaru> crap, since some time, during boot i see some warnings/errors about ACPI, and now the computer restarted itself once while it was in suspend, and another time while sitting doing nothing in the desktop
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• 689[09:50:51] <cybrNaut> tvm: not sure how. The url is bad
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• 691[09:51:08] <cybrNaut> try browsing replaced-url
• 692[09:51:20] <cybrNaut> 404 Not Found for me
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• 695[09:51:51] <cybrNaut> i'm not sure what "xenial" is, but that's suspect as well
• 696[09:52:07] <Fox> xenial is ubuntu
• 697[09:52:53] <Fox> I would not install ubuntu packages on a debian
• 698[09:52:55] <Haohmaru> there was some command that let you watch, i don't know.. "dmesg" as new messages pop up in it
• 699[09:53:11] <tvm> yes, it adds another source to your sources and then installs the package
• 700[09:53:29] <tvm> if the source is dead, you will have to find it elsewhere
• 701[09:53:50] <tvm> Haohmaru, tail -f /var/log/syslog ?
• 702[09:54:07] <cybrNaut> Fox: ah, but this bizarre b/c the main page says "debian".. anyway, this is more cause for suspicion. Debian packages can be installed on ubuntu, but not vice versa
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• 704[09:54:30] <Haohmaru> tvm i think that's it.. thanks
• 705[09:54:50] <Fox> you can install ubuntu packages on debian, if they have no dependencies, but I don't recommend it
• 706[09:55:12] <tvm> yeah, i wouldn't recommend that either
• 707[09:55:28] <tvm> unless you don't care much about that machine
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• 785[11:10:49] <Luit> hi
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• 788[11:12:40] <Luit> I'm looking to report a bug, but I'm not sure where to file it
• 789[11:13:26] <Haohmaru> depends.. bug in <what> exactly?
• 790[11:13:30] <Luit> I have weird graphical glitches, _mainly_ with Chrome, but not exclusively
• 791[11:14:09] <Luit> so I'm not sure whether it's a Wayland thing, a Chromium/whatevertherendereriscalled bug, or both, or neither
• 792[11:14:31] <Luit> where should I paste a screenshot?
• 793[11:14:34] <Haohmaru> did you try firefox and other browsers?
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• 795[11:14:45] <Haohmaru> imgur is one possibility for images
• 796[11:15:06] <Luit> replaced-url
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• 798[11:15:24] <Luit> it's like that, but it blinks between correct rendering and this
• 799[11:15:36] <Luit> around 5x per second
• 800[11:15:43] <Luit> maybe less
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• 802[11:16:56] <vandman> can anyone help me with a bluetooth mouse connection problem?
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• 804[11:17:11] <Luit> the weirdest thing: this happens when I maximize to the left or right, but no longer after I maximize full screen and then maximize
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• 813[11:20:18] <Luit> this is Buster by the way, forgot to mention that
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• 817[11:22:28] <Haohmaru> and did you tried anything?
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• 820[11:22:55] <Haohmaru> also, i think for buster you should go to a debian channel on OFTC
• 821[11:23:06] <Luit> OFTC means what exactly?
• 822[11:24:14] <Luit> ah, found it in my server list
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• 825[11:25:59] <Haohmaru> another IRC network
• 826[11:26:29] <Haohmaru> since this channel here is about support for debian "stable" and afaik buster ain't stable yet
• 827[11:26:31] <Luit> can't seem to connect there ...
• 828[11:26:41] <Luit> gotcha, thanks :)
• 829[11:27:19] <darkschneider> i'm probably missing something about how debian manages "old" php versions. i'm on sid and trying to use php7.1, the problem is that legacy php software needs apc.so that is shipped with php-apcu-bc, but that package just ships the version for *one* version of the php api, no basically one one version of php can work. what i'm missing
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• 832[11:28:18] <sep> i am trying to disable a broken core in my cpu, i run echo 0 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu2/online ;; but the process hangs (any process that do anything with cpu2 hangs). is it possible to disable cpu2 without acctually accessing cpu2 ? eg via /sys/devices/system/cpu/offline or similar ?
• 833[11:28:52] <darkschneider> so basically the package will install apc.so in just one of the api library dirs, but not any of the others necessary for other php versions to work
• 834[11:29:43] <tarzeau_> sep: remove it physically?
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• 836[11:31:20] <vandman> Does anyone had this issue: lost bluetooth mouse after 2 or 3 seconds. In Gnome bluetooth parameter, the mouse is still connected but not working.
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• 838[11:32:10] <sep> tarzeau_, it is one core from 8 cores in a cpu hard to remove one :)
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• 841[11:35:47] <vandman> anyone?
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• 843[11:36:45] <jor> sep: sounds like it's even too broken to disable... only thing I can think of is trying it the other way around booting with maxcpu=1 and then re-enabling the working cores with the /sys/devicees/.../cpu/online commands
• 844[11:37:14] <tarzeau_> with and without intel-microcode patches?
• 845[11:37:21] <tarzeau_> or amd64 if it's not intel
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• 848[11:39:02] <darkschneider> ok i do not get a thing: the files listed on packages.debian.org for a package and the one listed by dpkg-query for the same package, same version, differ. So there is something fishy, any clue where to look?
• 849[11:41:11] <sep> perhaps
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• 859[11:52:39] <Fox> !debian-next
• 860[11:52:39] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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• 862[11:53:23] <themill> darkschneider: I have a vague recollection of packages.d.o not updating of late. (Are you looking at the same architecture? In what way do they differ?)
• 863[11:53:48] <Fox> darkschneider: ask #debian-next please
• 864[11:54:57] <darkschneider> yes i'm 100% sure
• 865[11:55:03] <darkschneider> it's not updating
• 866[11:55:25] <darkschneider> mm i'm not sure i believe to the freenode scam...
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• 868[11:56:41] <darkschneider> i mean, not to be offtopic, but on freenode we have seen many things, from lilo pass away to this, all with a "scandal" attached to it...
• 869[11:57:03] <themill> not on-topic at all
• 870[11:57:17] <darkschneider> anyway thanks for the suggestion, /and sorry again for the offtopic)
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• 873[11:57:59] <themill> there are also plenty of reasons why dpkg -L disagrees with packages.d.o
• 874[11:59:21] <darkschneider> i see, what puzzles me is that it lists some files for a package, then you click to download it and then the package contains different files, and that imho is bad
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• 895[12:18:24] <bipul> If system crash, for example my Debian has suddenly power off. Then where do i see inside the log?
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• 899[12:19:21] <petn-randall> bipul: If it immediately powers off, you likely won't find anything in the logs. You can check /var/log/kern.log or syslog.
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• 901[12:19:44] <petn-randall> bipul: But if it does that, I'd assume a hardware issue that has nothing to do with the OS.
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• 910[12:24:20] <bipul> petn-randall, My system went offline suddenly, it makes me surprise. It was never happens before.
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• 915[12:31:11] <tobiasBora> bites: to rephrase my question, why on a fresh debian install I can not use user namespace as a non root user without having error about permission, while on ubuntu and co, I can use user namespace on a fresh install with non-root users?
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• 918[12:33:34] <Fox> tobiasBora: because of the defaults value for kernel.unprivileged_userns_clone
• 919[12:33:55] <Fox> it's set to 1 in ubuntu, 0 in debian (for stretch at least)
• 920[12:34:27] <tobiasBora> Fox: and any reason for that?
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• 923[12:36:04] <tobiasBora> is it for security reason? Else I don't see the point of disabling it by default.
• 924[12:36:25] <Fox> it is
• 925[12:36:52] <Fox> replaced-url
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• 927[12:38:43] <Haohmaru> vulnerabuntu ;]
• 928[12:40:20] <tobiasBora> Fox: whoo I thouqht that this was solved…
• 929[12:41:10] <tobiasBora> so does that mean that right now I can get root access on any recent ubuntu ?
• 930[12:41:18] <mawk> and it's enabled again after 4.5.2 ?
• 931[12:41:20] <mawk> I hope
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• 935[12:42:04] <tobiasBora> hum
• 936[12:42:35] <tobiasBora> in the linked webpage the status of the bug is fixed, isn't it?
• 937[12:43:31] <tobiasBora> or maybe the fix is to disable it? ^^
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• 940[12:44:00] <tobiasBora> so ubuntu is still impacted by this bug and I tould get privilege escalation on it?
• 941[12:44:34] <Haohmaru> maybe ask in #ubuntu
• 942[12:45:54] <tobiasBora> ok thanks
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• 1059[14:44:13] <jelly> tobiasBora, that functionality has been linked to many security issues, not just one
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• 1158[15:13:05] <tobiasBora> jelly: ok thank you. So this specific functionality is fixed right?
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• 1186[15:41:15] <ujjain> What is the best way to change the default java? change $JAVA_HOME, $PATH or use the update-alternatives command? I wish to have both Java 7 and 8 installed on my Jenkins slave. (Debian 8)
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• 1188[15:42:08] <petn-randall> !best
• 1189[15:42:09] <dpkg> Best for what? Please define what you mean by "best". Gloria Gaynor! Tina Turner! Aretha Franklin! Men without Hats! Women without Hats! Men at Work! Women at Play! Anyone for Tennis!
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• 1194[15:48:53] <hatchetjack> uninstall it?
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• 1197[15:51:13] <petn-randall> ujjain: Really depends on what you want to achieve.
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• 1201[15:53:29] <themill> ujjain: update-java-alternatives is likely the right approach to changing the default
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• 1203[15:54:16] <jelly> tobiasBora, I'd say it's a work in progress wrt security, but if you need it (for containers or whatnot), you need it
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• 1210[15:58:20] <tobiasBora> jelly: ok thanks
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• 1225[16:11:24] <chomwitt> why there isnt any LC_TIME directory in /usr/share/locale ?
• 1226[16:11:24] *** Quits: parduse (~parduse@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 1227[16:12:21] <greycat> ... beeeecause LC_TIME is not the name of a locale?
• 1228[16:12:31] <jelly> because locale definitions are stored per-locale, not per-functionality
• 1229[16:12:38] <greycat> What are you trying to do?
• 1230[16:16:46] <chomwitt> i use strftime and want to output greek date with greek days like 'date' do
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• 1232[16:19:38] <petn-randall> chomwitt: Then just set LC_TIME correctly.
• 1233[16:20:15] *** Quits: drzacek (~drzacek@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 1234[16:20:19] <greycat> And use one of the "preferred ... for the current locale
• 1235[16:20:24] <greycat> " format specifiers, like %c
• 1236[16:20:38] <chomwitt> yes i used %c
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• 1238[16:22:37] <chomwitt> ok , now it works.
• 1239[16:22:39] *** Quits: tpanarch1st (~tpanarch1@replaced-ip) (Quit: Thanks for your help)
• 1240[16:23:59] <chomwitt> i thought that strftime would map el -> el_GR.utf8 (which seem is the correct) but strftime seems to not do guesses :-/
• 1241[16:25:04] <chomwitt> anyway where is the directory with the days , months translated string ? should be in locale dir /usr/share/locale ?
• 1242[16:25:10] <jelly> you do need to use a locale name (or alias) that actually exists and short aliases typically point to 8bit locales, not UTF-8 ones
• 1243[16:25:15] *** Quits: r00ter (~r00ter@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 1244[16:25:57] <jelly> locales package generation Debian uses by default made sense 20 years ago when disk space was scarce, it probably makes more sense to just install locales-all instead today, if you need some locales.
• 1245[16:26:13] <jelly> oh noes, it uses 100MB!
• 1246[16:26:21] *** Quits: Sir_Designer (~Sir_Desig@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 1247[16:27:48] <darkschneider> 100Mb outrageous! How much the new server room to store all that would cost!
• 1248[16:28:22] <fpat> in google terms: 3 buildings
• 1249[16:29:20] <darkschneider> hey, you need at least a cafeteria per disk platter
• 1250[16:29:30] <annadane> afaik conventional hard disk space is still about 1TB, you'd think it'd be more by now
• 1251[16:29:41] <annadane> guess it depends where you shop
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• 1257[16:32:29] <domovoy> hi
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• 1263[16:34:28] <fr0xk> Is it safe to remove dash from debian?
• 1264[16:34:30] <fr0xk> if bash is installed?
• 1265[16:34:32] <chomwitt> 'locale' command is part of package libc-bin ..strange
• 1266[16:35:08] <fpat> fr0xk: its essential, yes
• 1267[16:35:23] <fpat> why do you wat to remove it?
• 1268[16:35:23] *** Joins: cloudywizzard (~cloudywiz@replaced-ip)
• 1269[16:35:35] <fr0xk> fpat: What is essential? removing dash?
• 1270[16:35:43] <greycat> dash has priority "required"
• 1271[16:35:51] <fpat> fr0xk: apt-cache show dash
• 1272[16:35:54] <ayekat> fr0xk: bash does not provide /bin/sh, so you might break things that way
• 1273[16:36:15] <fr0xk> My shell scripts starts with /bin/sh
• 1274[16:36:42] <fr0xk> In some other systems, /bin/sh -> /bash
• 1275[16:36:49] <fr0xk> Like Fedira etc?
• 1276[16:36:51] <fr0xk> I guess
• 1277[16:36:55] <fr0xk> *Fedora
• 1278[16:37:08] <ayekat> fr0xk: you could manually symlink /bin/sh -> bash, and it should continue working if you remove dash
• 1279[16:37:14] <ayekat> fr0xk: but why do you want to do that?
• 1280[16:37:45] *** Quits: schu-r (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: schu-r)
• 1281[16:37:49] <fr0xk> My shellscripts contain -e \e[xxxx color modes
• 1282[16:38:08] <fr0xk> dash shows them very weird way
• 1283[16:38:19] <ayekat> fr0xk: yes, because that's non-standard
• 1284[16:38:29] <greycat> You can make /bin/sh point to bash WITHOUT removing dash.
• 1285[16:38:29] <fr0xk> What's the point of having two two shells installed?
• 1286[16:38:33] <ayekat> fr0xk: I recommend to use printf instead for that sort of thing
• 1287[16:38:45] <fr0xk> Ow ow, okey
• 1288[16:39:05] *** Quits: Namarrgon (~glei@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 1289[16:39:17] <greycat> In addition to using printf for hex/octal/C-style escapes, you shouldn't be hard-coding terminal escape sequences in the first place. Use tput.
• 1290[16:39:35] <jelly> /bin/sh -> dash makes some system scripts run QUITE a bit faster, fr0xk
• 1291[16:39:45] *** Quits: bijan_ (~bijan_@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1292[16:40:07] <jelly> arguably I last measured that like... 15 years ago
• 1293[16:40:14] <fr0xk> What is tput syntax for "echo -e "\e[36mColor text\e [0m]" ?
• 1294[16:40:14] <RoyK> jelly: probably only if you run them *very* frequently
• 1295[16:40:25] <jelly> RoyK, or at boot.
• 1296[16:40:34] <greycat> fr0xk: replaced-url
• 1297[16:40:37] <RoyK> bash will be kept in memory at first run
• 1298[16:40:41] <jelly> RoyK, but no, ran once, cold cache
• 1299[16:40:51] <RoyK> so no significant change, really
• 1300[16:40:57] <fr0xk> Ow ow, understood
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• 1302[16:41:24] * RoyK just uses bash for everything unless something is critically needed
• 1303[16:41:28] <fr0xk> I care more about portability as I run few unix systems toowith bash installed.
• 1304[16:41:44] <jelly> RoyK, each new script is a new process, the fact shell's code is in vfs cache does not matter too much. dash gets cached the same way as bash
• 1305[16:42:03] <RoyK> jelly: I'm quite aware of how unix works ;)
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• 1307[16:42:15] <fr0xk> greycat: Thanks for that. Very short and to the point
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• 1309[16:42:36] <fr0xk> RoyK: I meant FreeBSD.
• 1310[16:42:43] <RoyK> fr0xk: same thing
• 1311[16:42:45] <jelly> RoyK, that makes one of us
• 1312[16:42:58] <RoyK> open(); read(); lexec()
• 1313[16:42:59] <fr0xk> and macOS :D
• 1314[16:43:02] <greycat> if you're writing for BSD as well as Linux, you *definitely* want to switch from legacy echo -e to printf
• 1315[16:43:16] <fr0xk> okey, I better try printf.
• 1316[16:43:20] <jelly> but what if I'm writing for Solaris /sbin/sh
• 1317[16:43:25] <fr0xk> s/try/use/
• 1318[16:43:25] * jelly hides
• 1319[16:43:27] <greycat> echo's behavior across shells and systems is sad
• 1320[16:43:40] *** Quits: oc0d (~oc0d@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
• 1321[16:43:57] <black_mamba> Can someone smarter than me help me understand what this script is trying to do? and why the heck was it on my computer? replaced-url
• 1322[16:43:58] <RoyK> greycat: printf is the same IIRC
• 1323[16:44:04] <fr0xk> Why printf works instead of echo?
• 1324[16:44:17] <RoyK> because it's portable?
• 1325[16:44:18] <greycat> printf is standardized and will actually behave the way it's supposed to
• 1326[16:44:23] <fr0xk> What printf got in extra that echo lacks?
• 1327[16:44:30] <greycat> predictability
• 1328[16:44:36] <fr0xk> mmm.
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• 1330[16:44:42] <greycat> x="-e"; echo "$x"
• 1331[16:44:43] *** Joins: bijan_ (~bijan_@replaced-ip)
• 1332[16:45:03] <petn-randall> black_mamba: You tell us.
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• 1335[16:46:39] <RoyK> black_mamba: looks like it's killing a lot of processes from specified IP addresses, then removing some tmp files and something from var and then downloading and installing some software
• 1336[16:46:51] *** Quits: f4cl3y (~f4cl3y@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1337[16:46:59] <RoyK> nothing I'd run unless I'd written it myself
• 1338[16:47:04] <jelly> good grief, a pastebin site behind cloudflare and requiring js
• 1339[16:47:44] *** Joins: Elleander (~Elleander@replaced-ip)
• 1340[16:47:55] <annadane> "why it was on my computer" i don't think is answerable, i don't think it's possible to tell how a script got there, the closest you'd be able to see is its last modification date
• 1341[16:48:20] <greycat> plus owner/group, and knowing the name and directory might help
• 1342[16:48:21] <black_mamba> :( I just like ghost … RoyK: I didn't write it, but I know it tries to keep itself as a cron job every minute.
• 1343[16:48:55] <annadane> also, where is the script actually located?
• 1344[16:48:56] *** Quits: bijan_ (~bijan_@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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• 1346[16:49:03] <black_mamba> annadane: that's fair, but I thought maybe it was some old jerry rigged way to install open java sdk
• 1347[16:49:04] <RoyK> where did you get it from?
• 1348[16:49:11] *** Joins: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip)
• 1349[16:49:13] <jelly> black_mamba, xm64 sounds like cryptocurrency miner software, often installed as malware payload. This piece of code seems roughly like trying to make it persistent
• 1350[16:49:16] <black_mamba> it was a cron job
• 1351[16:49:25] <jelly> xm = Monero
• 1352[16:49:37] <jelly> or was it xmr
• 1353[16:49:56] <jelly> black_mamba, which user did it run as?
• 1354[16:50:16] <greycat> Teeth pulling time.
• 1355[16:50:50] <jelly> probably "image for analysis, nuke and reinstall time"
• 1356[16:50:53] <greycat> ... yeah, that silence. It's going to be 30 minutes wasted trying to get the most fundamentally BASIC ino
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• 1361[16:52:52] <fr0xk> black_mamba: I ran that script :)
• 1362[16:52:57] <fr0xk> Wait a min :D
• 1363[16:53:08] <fr0xk> It downloads malware
• 1364[16:53:18] <fr0xk> but poorly written :D
• 1365[16:53:24] <fr0xk> broken script
• 1366[16:53:33] <greycat> shocking.
• 1367[16:53:48] <petn-randall> fr0xk: I hope it's a throwaway VM?
• 1368[16:54:05] <fr0xk> No, real system
• 1369[16:54:26] <petn-randall> fr0xk: Have fun reinstalling.
• 1370[16:54:32] <black_mamba> it ran as root jelly
• 1371[16:54:39] <JustASlacker> nuke from orbit
• 1372[16:54:40] <fr0xk> Wait a min, see the output :)
• 1373[16:55:03] <fr0xk> This one :D replaced-url
• 1374[16:55:29] <jelly> black_mamba, so, it's "image/snapshot the system for analysis, nuke and reinstall time"
• 1375[16:56:00] <jelly> pkill -f getty to stop root from using the console is funny tho.
• 1376[16:56:08] <petn-randall> fr0xk: Well, some commands failed, but the rest succeeded.
• 1377[16:56:08] <fr0xk> script failed :D
• 1378[16:57:08] *** Joins: bijan_ (~bijan_@replaced-ip)
• 1379[16:57:10] <jelly> black_mamba, that "analysis" bit is important, because if you just install the system the same way as it was before, it will likely have the same vulnerabilities
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• 1382[16:58:38] <fr0xk> petn-randall: /tmp is not here, so pintless
• 1383[16:58:43] <fr0xk> pointless
• 1384[16:58:50] <annadane> sounds like a fun business idea for a website, "i installed lol you've been pwned malicious script x, someone tell me what it does and how i can unscrew my system"
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• 1388[17:00:26] <JordiGH> There's no Python 3.6 backport for stable, is there?
• 1389[17:00:32] <annadane> no
• 1390[17:00:38] <annadane> iirc
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• 1393[17:01:19] <annadane> i've actually been wondering about that, i guess if you wanted programs to use python 3.6 you can download the codebase and make the program reference it, in its (python) own folder
• 1394[17:01:48] <black_mamba> fr0xk: is the malware that xm64 file
• 1395[17:01:57] <annadane> replaced-url
• 1396[17:02:49] *** Quits: JustASlacker (~JustASlac@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 1397[17:02:53] <JordiGH> Hmmmmmmm...
• 1398[17:03:07] <JordiGH> I think my colleagues will start using Python 3.6 features soon (mostly f-strings).
• 1399[17:03:10] <JordiGH> Not sure what to do.
• 1400[17:03:21] *** Quits: fr0xk (~fr0xk@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 1401[17:04:42] <jelly> black_mamba, xm64 is probably just the payload, not malware or the vulnerability that enabled them to get in or get root.
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• 1405[17:06:06] <jelly> annadane, this is almost precisely how antivirus and antimalware products for Windows work (or hope to work)
• 1406[17:06:22] *** Joins: oc0d (~oc0d@replaced-ip)
• 1407[17:06:29] <black_mamba> jelly: best way to snapshot and analyze?
• 1408[17:06:39] <jelly> that depends on the platform.
• 1409[17:06:49] <annadane> i should get in the habit of not running any 3rd party scripts even not as root, not in my home folder
• 1410[17:07:04] <annadane> that's incredibly grammatically incorrect
• 1411[17:07:42] <black_mamba> annadane: lesson learned.
• 1412[17:08:00] <jelly> black_mamba, physical system or VM? Do you control the host or are you buying a service from someone else? Contact your provider if the latter, only they can do it properly.
• 1413[17:08:03] <annadane> well except yours is a cron job
• 1414[17:08:19] <black_mamba> jelly: well, i'm noticing it on a few computers. It's on a few debian vm's an a mac os too
• 1415[17:08:45] <black_mamba> annadane: which I never setup though.
• 1416[17:09:03] <fr0xk> black_mamba: That script drops malwars into tmp and executes at all processes running as ps aux | grep -vw sustes :D
• 1417[17:09:14] <jelly> black_mamba, then either all those computers are pwned, or the base image used to install them was pwned already
• 1418[17:09:46] *** Quits: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 1419[17:09:56] *** Joins: bijan_ (~bijan_@replaced-ip)
• 1420[17:09:57] <jelly> or the host was pwned and malware injected into VMs
• 1421[17:10:22] <jelly> then you do not need to exploit things to get root at all
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• 1424[17:10:57] <jelly> just run arbitrary commands over a host-to-vm API
• 1425[17:12:09] <jelly> I know VMware (ESX or vCenter) has a really easy way to do that, other VM solutions probably have similar stuff as well
• 1426[17:12:58] <jelly> ,v python3.6
• 1427[17:12:59] <judd> Package: python3.6 on amd64 -- buster: 3.6.6-1; sid: 3.6.6-1
• 1428[17:13:08] <black_mamba> I'm told XenOrchestra is what we use here. I'm new on the job and I found it so … they gave the job to me
• 1429[17:13:16] *** Joins: tradar (~tradar@replaced-ip)
• 1430[17:13:31] <ksk> sounds like a company I want to be customer of ;)
• 1431[17:13:32] *** Joins: thescientist (~thescient@replaced-ip)
• 1432[17:13:46] <black_mamba> lol ksk :P
• 1433[17:14:01] <jelly> black_mamba, if it's older than a year it has i think at least one security issue. If it's been unpatched for more 1-2 years it has like 2-3 huge holes
• 1434[17:14:12] <ksk> university computer center? nevermind :D
• 1435[17:14:55] <annadane> oh, hang on, there's a package for this
• 1436[17:15:55] <jelly> black_mamba, and I only know of that because some of my hosting providers on XenServer have had 2 panicky reboots and upgrades during that time
• 1437[17:16:41] *** Quits: msimpson (~msimpson@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 1438[17:16:55] <annadane> there's rkhunter but for scripts i don't think that helps
• 1439[17:17:15] <annadane> but there's some other package(s) which can detect system vulns but you'd probably need to cross reference a lot
• 1440[17:17:22] <annadane> wipe/reinstall is probably sanest
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• 1443[17:18:22] <mkxone> hey, someone here with and AMD GPU who's willing to help me verify something about PCI Device Classes? ( i need a few lines from lspci output, will take max. 5 minutes, pm me)
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• 1450[17:22:25] <black_mamba> jelly: that would make sense!
• 1451[17:22:35] <fr0xk> black_mamba: Are you infected? :S
• 1452[17:22:37] <fr0xk> :D
• 1453[17:23:30] <fr0xk> I wish I could show those invalid commands to the dropper and self restoring everything :D:D
• 1454[17:23:38] <black_mamba> fr0xk: my daily driver isn't, I just got credentials to my work computer and boom, found it
• 1455[17:24:10] <fr0xk> black_mamba: mal.sh: line 12: netstat: command not found :D
• 1456[17:24:14] <fr0xk> 13 times error
• 1457[17:24:23] *** Quits: bijan_ (~bijan_@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 1458[17:24:24] <fr0xk> Who uses netsat anyway :D
• 1459[17:24:28] <jelly> fr0xk, install net-tools
• 1460[17:24:55] <fr0xk> jelly: That's depreciated?
• 1461[17:24:58] *** Joins: bijan_ (~bijan_@replaced-ip)
• 1462[17:25:12] <greycat> net-tools is no longer installed by default, as of stretch
• 1463[17:25:19] <black_mamba> instead of netstat, can I use lsof and netcat?
• 1464[17:25:23] <jelly> fr0xk, or stop using a script that uses deprecated commands, I don't care
• 1465[17:25:26] <fr0xk> Good Think, I use ip for everything
• 1466[17:25:28] <greycat> you can use whatever you want
• 1467[17:25:53] <greycat> The ss command is supposed to replace netstat, but I don't have much practice with it yet.
• 1468[17:26:18] <fr0xk> jelly: No, that malicious script uses net-tools binaries :D
• 1469[17:26:20] <jelly> and net-tools are maintained upstream again so do not seem to be going away soon
• 1470[17:26:22] <greycat> and "replace" isn't quite the right word ... fill the role of?
• 1471[17:26:41] *** Quits: bijan_ (~bijan_@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1472[17:26:45] <fr0xk> And what is sustes? md5sum: /var/tmp/sustes3: No such file or directory
• 1473[17:26:48] <fr0xk> :D
• 1474[17:27:48] *** Joins: Bombo (atom@replaced-ip)
• 1475[17:27:54] <Bombo> hi
• 1476[17:27:56] <jelly> fr0xk, replaced-url
• 1477[17:28:05] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 1478[17:28:10] <fr0xk> jelly: Yeah I seen that
• 1479[17:28:14] <fr0xk> Fsiled :D
• 1480[17:28:18] <fr0xk> Failed :D
• 1481[17:28:31] <fr0xk> That script is badly written
• 1482[17:28:56] <jelly> in any case, malware analysis is somewhat out of the scope of this channel
• 1483[17:29:02] *** Quits: VoiceOfReason (~max@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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• 1487[17:31:04] <Bombo> were the swap/cache settings in debian 8 different than in deb9? i notice excessive use of swap files after upgrading from deb8 to deb9, i had 4gb swapfile, it was full, so i added abother 2gb swapfile, which is now full too, i'm checking md5sums and i can watch how swap is getting fuller, but never freed
• 1488[17:31:50] <Bombo> system is quite unresponsive when swap is full
• 1489[17:32:05] *** Quits: swickrotation (~swickrota@replaced-ip) (Quit: Catch you later on this worldline)
• 1490[17:32:09] <jelly> Bombo, the kernel is a bit different, and the userspace too. Can you show the output of "free"?
• 1491[17:32:12] <jelly> !paste
• 1492[17:32:12] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: replaced-url
• 1493[17:32:35] *** Quits: clemens3 (~clemens@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 1494[17:32:44] <JordiGH> Debian 9? That exists already?
• 1495[17:32:46] <jelly> vm.swappiness settings is the same, but is probably too aggressive by default in both releases
• 1496[17:32:48] * JordiGH cats /etc/debian_version
• 1497[17:32:56] * jelly points JordiGH at the topic
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• 1500[17:33:14] <JordiGH> Oh, hey, that's what I'm running. Geez, this is like how 200X seemed like the most futuristic of dates for a long time.
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• 1504[17:35:03] <Bombo> jelly: replaced-url
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• 1507[17:35:59] <Bombo> everything is slow right now
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• 1509[17:36:32] <jelly> Bombo, so there's about 2GB usable but already 6GB paged out, on swap. That means even if you tuned the kernel, you'd still be about 4GB RAM short for your current workload
• 1510[17:36:33] <Bombo> a bit of the swap is freed after a while
• 1511[17:38:03] <jelly> Bombo, so run "top", press uppercase M, see which processes eat most RES (which corresponds to some-most RAM usage)
• 1512[17:38:24] *** Joins: onagadori (~onagadori@replaced-ip)
• 1513[17:38:45] <jelly> maybe you just have greedy web browsers (and both firefox and chromium/google-chrome are hungry by default)
• 1514[17:38:48] *** Joins: bijan_ (~bijan_@replaced-ip)
• 1515[17:40:24] <Bombo> jelly: yes firefox and thunderbird on top, when i close them a bit is freed but not much
• 1516[17:40:31] <jelly> using ad blockers and javascript blockers helps
• 1517[17:40:57] <Bombo> then xorg, it says virt 4273M res 56956
• 1518[17:41:13] <greycat> O_o
• 1519[17:41:15] *** Joins: LtL (~ltl@replaced-ip)
• 1520[17:41:17] <jelly> Bombo, make sure all firefox processes disappeared. It takes a while for it to die properly after Ctrl q
• 1521[17:41:26] *** Parts: JordiGH (jordi@replaced-ip) ("Leaving")
• 1522[17:41:44] <jelly> Bombo, that might or might not be problematic
• 1523[17:41:48] <mkxone> anyone here running an amd gpu and willing to tell me the pci device class of the integrated audio device on his card?
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• 1526[17:42:34] <jelly> mkxone, ask in ##hardware maybe?
• 1527[17:43:01] <mkxone> jelly, good suggestion, thanks!
• 1528[17:43:32] <Bombo> jelly: i can hear the HDD while ff is closeing ;)
• 1529[17:43:46] *** Quits: bijan_ (~bijan_@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 1530[17:43:59] <jelly> mkxone, and from a really old desktop with a really old card, 02:00.1 Audio device [0403]: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Cedar HDMI Audio [Radeon HD 5400/6300 Series] [1002:aa68]
• 1531[17:44:11] <Bombo> i just got 210 tabs open
• 1532[17:44:24] <jelly> Bombo, then it's no wonder it eats lots of RAM.
• 1533[17:44:29] <greycat> that doesn't seem a bit excessive to you?
• 1534[17:44:33] <mkxone> jelly, cool thanks!
• 1535[17:44:47] *** Joins: aliasnumber10 (~aliasnumb@replaced-ip)
• 1536[17:44:50] <jelly> I usually clean up after 400-600 tabs are open...
• 1537[17:45:27] <jelly> it helps all my workstations have 12-16GB RAM now
• 1538[17:46:05] <aliasnumber10> Which CPU?
• 1539[17:46:05] *** Quits: johnnyfive (~johnny@replaced-ip) (Quit: I go now.)
• 1540[17:46:05] <colinjmatt> 800 tabs or go home :P
• 1541[17:46:45] <Bombo> i'm a tabmessie ok ;)
• 1542[17:46:49] *** Quits: swickrotation (~swickrota@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1543[17:46:51] <jelly> Bombo, you can get significant savings in Firefox with NoScript but managing the whitelists requires some time and discipline
• 1544[17:46:53] <Bombo> colinjmatt: and you
• 1545[17:46:54] <Bombo> ;)
• 1546[17:47:10] <jelly> Bombo, save the session and start anew.
• 1547[17:47:12] *** Joins: swickrotation (~swickrota@replaced-ip)
• 1548[17:47:16] <mason> I feel like I've gone astray if I have more then 6-7 tabs.
• 1549[17:47:37] <Bombo> Mem: 4033600 944196 918364 69740 2171040 2760716
• 1550[17:47:37] <Bombo> Swap: 6147420 5230156 917264
• 1551[17:47:45] <Bombo> without ff and tb now
• 1552[17:48:15] <jelly> Bombo, "pkill -9 firefox", wait a second or two, and look at free again
• 1553[17:48:19] <annadane> you're all freaks, i don't think i've ever had more than 20 open
• 1554[17:49:18] <Bombo> is it normal that /usr/lib/xorg/Xorg uses that much? 4235M (virt)
• 1555[17:49:26] <colinjmatt> I realistically get to about 30 in 'research mode'
• 1556[17:49:27] <Bombo> jelly: it is really gone
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• 1558[17:49:51] <Bombo> irssi is on top of res now ;)
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• 1562[17:51:44] <jelly> Bombo, Xorg might have mapped GPU memory, it might be normal or not depending on the driver
• 1563[17:52:13] <Bombo> hmm i got that crappy i915
• 1564[17:52:41] <jelly> you can reboot, not start firefox, and see what Xorg does with VSS (VIRT) and how much "available" there is
• 1565[17:53:00] *** Joins: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 1566[17:53:08] <jelly> intel gpu will eat some system for itself as well
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• 1569[17:53:18] <jelly> but probably not 4GB
• 1570[17:53:42] <jelly> might be just _able_ to allocate that much but never actually uses it
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• 1572[17:54:17] <Bombo> maybe its the kernel? i915 driver is enhanced in latest kernel is what i read
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• 1575[17:54:38] <Bombo> i got the standard deb9 one 4.9.smth
• 1576[17:54:50] <greycat> wooledg 895 0.6 0.9 332632 73800 tty1 Sl Jul17 208:19 /usr/lib/xorg/Xorg -nolisten tcp :0 vt1 -keeptty -auth /tmp/serverauth.vtOMMlsiG6
• 1577[17:55:18] *** Quits: scde (~scde@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1578[17:55:26] <greycat> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation HD Graphics 530 [8086:1912] (rev 06)
• 1579[17:55:48] *** Quits: deepfreez (~deepfreez@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 1580[17:56:12] <Bombo> greycat: hmm
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• 1583[17:56:43] <Bombo> i wish i'd remember how much it was with deb8
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• 1597[17:59:45] <jelly> Bombo, which cpu is that
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• 1601[18:00:24] <jelly> grep model.name /proc/cpuinfo|head -n1
• 1602[18:00:46] *** Quits: sysvalve (~sysvalve@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 1603[18:00:54] <Bombo> jelly: model name: Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU D525 @ 1.80GHz
• 1604[18:01:06] <greycat> Debian's grep has -m1 by the way
• 1605[18:01:08] *** Joins: bijan_ (~bijan_@replaced-ip)
• 1606[18:01:17] <at0m> Bombo: eheh! identical here
• 1607[18:01:37] <jelly> max memory size 4GB
• 1608[18:02:05] <jelly> Bombo, maybe you can reduce the GPU aperture to like 256MB-1GB in BIOS
• 1609[18:02:18] <Bombo> greycat: nice
• 1610[18:02:25] <Bombo> at0m: ;)
• 1611[18:02:33] <jelly> that won't change actual usage, but might change what top shows if that makes you happier
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• 1613[18:03:10] *** Joins: eki (~eki@replaced-ip)
• 1614[18:03:13] <at0m> Bombo: it's got dedi gfx though, makes quite the diff for a media player machine
• 1615[18:03:25] *** Joins: scde__ (~scde@replaced-ip)
• 1616[18:03:30] <jelly> if you're on that old a CPU, and can't reduce your workload to fit 4GB, it might be worth setting up 2/3 RAM to be used as swap on zram.
• 1617[18:03:39] <Bombo> jelly: i would be happier if it wasn swapping like hell making everything slow
• 1618[18:03:50] <jelly> Bombo, then don't have fucking 200 tabs
• 1619[18:04:05] <at0m> opening firefox on this is uber slow
• 1620[18:04:15] <jelly> and use a non-3D DE like xfce instead of Gnome
• 1621[18:04:18] *** Quits: Raed|Laptop (~Raed@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 1622[18:04:20] <at0m> opening most anything. and that's with 4GB RM, and SSD
• 1623[18:04:27] *** Quits: dreamon_ (~dreamon@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 1624[18:04:31] *** Joins: foka (~foka@replaced-ip)
• 1625[18:04:31] <jelly> or a simple window manager setup instead of DE
• 1626[18:04:55] *** Joins: deznuts (uid92154@replaced-ip)
• 1627[18:05:01] <Bombo> jelly: i don't have ff pr tb right now at all ;)
• 1628[18:05:39] <Bombo> and it was ok with deb8 thats why i wonder what has changed in deb
• 1629[18:05:52] *** Quits: bijan_ (~bijan_@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 1630[18:05:55] <jelly> Bombo, if you still want to investigate current situation, you can try smem, or run "swapoff -a" as root, see how far it goes, then run top again
• 1631[18:06:33] <jelly> yeah well, kernel heuristics and drivers change around all the time
• 1632[18:06:35] <Bombo> jelly: and i'm using LXDE you know what the L stand for ;)
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• 1636[18:06:48] <jelly> LARGE
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• 1638[18:06:55] *** Quits: scde (~scde@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 1639[18:06:58] <jelly> :-P
• 1640[18:07:25] *** Joins: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip)
• 1641[18:07:29] <jelly> (but okay, lxde is comparable to xfce in resource usage)
• 1642[18:07:38] <Bombo> at0m: yes it's always been quite slow, but it's even slower now because of the swapping
• 1643[18:07:48] *** Joins: eki (~eki@replaced-ip)
• 1644[18:07:57] <Bombo> ;)
• 1645[18:07:59] <jelly> (and does not have an opengl 3D compositor by default, maybe not at all, dunno)
• 1646[18:08:06] <at0m> Swap: 0B 0B 0B
• 1647[18:08:15] <jelly> at0m, that's best swap!
• 1648[18:08:18] <Bombo> no 3d compositor no
• 1649[18:08:56] <Bombo> i tried compton, just for fun, looks good but i don't need it
• 1650[18:09:07] * jelly runs away for a couple hours
• 1651[18:09:14] <at0m> jelly: it just runs my media center and irssi atm. glad it isnt my main machine eh
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• 1654[18:09:17] <Bombo> hf jelly
• 1655[18:09:36] <Bombo> at0m: i got an rpi3 as media center ;)
• 1656[18:09:55] <at0m> yea both are ok to run 24/7, and low on power consumption
• 1657[18:09:59] *** Quits: Madda__ (~Madda@replaced-ip##) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: ##replaced-url
• 1658[18:10:11] <Bombo> nothing beats rpi
• 1659[18:10:38] *** Quits: onagadori (~onagadori@replaced-ip) ()
• 1660[18:10:56] <at0m> this micro-ATX is stuck to back of my TV. rpi was a lil slow. at least i can firefox on this if i occasionally want
• 1661[18:11:21] <at0m> but ok, that doesn't solve your issue
• 1662[18:11:34] <Bombo> no ;)
• 1663[18:11:46] <Bombo> i don't dare switching off the swap
• 1664[18:11:58] <at0m> lightweight desktop might indeed cut a GB out (lxde vs KDE for example)
• 1665[18:12:02] *** Joins: bijan_ (~bijan_@replaced-ip)
• 1666[18:12:07] <Bombo> i got some lxterms open with stuff i need to do ;)
• 1667[18:12:21] *** Joins: Labu (~Labu@replaced-ip)
• 1668[18:12:26] <at0m> terms don't use much at all, the stuff you run in them might
• 1669[18:12:27] <Bombo> (ok i'm a lxterm messie too)
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• 1675[18:14:58] <Bombo> thats why i can't close the session right now ;)
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• 1678[18:15:55] <at0m> next time use screen/tmux between term and the apps ;p
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• 1682[18:16:18] <Bombo> i got some of these too ;)
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• 1686[18:17:22] <Tenacious-Techhu> When I'm in a Virtual Console as root, and I kill the processes of the user logged into the GUI, for some reason, the viewed Virtual Console switches to the one with the GUI in it... how do I prevent that switch?
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• 1692[18:19:17] <hatchetjack> yeah, screen for the win
• 1693[18:19:25] <hatchetjack> screen is also a useful training tool
• 1694[18:19:36] <Bombo> /usr/sbin/console-kit-daemon is #2 with 2063M after /usr/lib/xorg/Xorg with 4242M
• 1695[18:19:57] <Bombo> tmux is so much better that screen ;)
• 1696[18:20:06] <hatchetjack> yeah yeah
• 1697[18:20:24] <hatchetjack> I hear that all day long from one of my co workers
• 1698[18:20:41] <hatchetjack> I'm old school I guess
• 1699[18:20:46] <hatchetjack> screen does everything I need
• 1700[18:21:02] <hatchetjack> and I'm so used to typing 'screen' it's hard to make myself type 'tmux'
• 1701[18:21:39] <Bombo> its even shorter! ;)
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• 1704[18:22:52] <Bombo> i started with screen too, but i found out it's really cool to have split windows (like irssi)
• 1705[18:23:07] *** Joins: bijan_ (~bijan_@replaced-ip)
• 1706[18:23:17] <Bombo> and that status line is helpful too
• 1707[18:24:00] <at0m> Bombo: screen has a status line if you enable it. but anyhow, you're stuck with an X that can't be restarted, we're not.
• 1708[18:24:27] *** Quits: eki (~eki@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 1709[18:24:31] <Bombo> at0m: so what ;)
• 1710[18:24:33] <at0m> because lxterm and no screen or tmux
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• 1713[18:25:10] <at0m> so you're asking questions on why X ends up using all your RAM
• 1714[18:25:19] <domovoy> is there a way to get firefox > 59 on debian stable, while still relying on "stable" packages upgrade? (ie, _not_ pinning unstable, _not_ installing from mozilla.org in /opt) something like an "unofficial packaging for debian stetch"?
• 1715[18:25:32] <Bombo> i guess i need to reduce the lxterms, then restart session, and then use a new kernel
• 1716[18:26:22] <Bombo> but that is lot of work so i'm procrastinating ;)
• 1717[18:27:00] <annadane> anyone know if compton works well/at all with the proprietary nvidia driver?
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• 1719[18:27:33] <Bombo> domovoy: stretch-backports i guess
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• 1721[18:28:46] <Bombo> annadane: you could try that out, you just need to start it in a term
• 1722[18:29:12] <annadane> yeah i guess i could just try it
• 1723[18:29:13] <Bombo> annadane: and it's gone when you kill it
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• 1726[18:29:36] <Bombo> annadane: i tried that way but on my intel
• 1727[18:30:04] <annadane> if nvidia doesn't provide their own compositor then i'm sure it works the same way as it does with nouveau
• 1728[18:30:33] <Bombo> i thought it would need to be installed somehow in xorg settings or lxde openbox and restart the session, but for testing it did work
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• 1730[18:31:41] <annadane> was a dumb question
• 1731[18:31:41] <Tenacious-Techhu> O.K., so, you use openvt to switch to an unused tty, and you use chvt to switch which tty is viewed; but, when I'm using openvt, and I check what number tty to use, I get a tty *without* a number... how do I specify that to chvt?
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• 1733[18:32:19] <domovoy> Bombo> nop, seems firefox (or firefox-esr) is not in backports
• 1734[18:32:31] <hatchetjack> Bombo: screen can do split windows
• 1735[18:32:37] <hatchetjack> well if by split windows you mean tabs
• 1736[18:32:53] <Tenacious-Techhu> When I'm in a Virtual Console as root, and I kill the processes of the user logged into the GUI, for some reason, the viewed Virtual Console switches to the one with the GUI in it... how do I prevent that switch?
• 1737[18:33:05] <at0m> hatchetjack: screen even splits horizontal. tmux also splits vertically.
• 1738[18:33:31] <Bombo> domovoy: :/
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• 1740[18:33:58] <Bombo> hatchetjack: no i mean split wins not tabs
• 1741[18:33:58] <annadane> wiki.debian.org/Firefox has instructions
• 1742[18:34:04] <hatchetjack> Bombo: k
• 1743[18:34:14] <annadane> just download it to its own folder or stick it in /opt if you want it system-wide
• 1744[18:34:18] <hatchetjack> well screen or tmux both have their qualities
• 1745[18:34:35] <hatchetjack> I'd rather leave a long running process going in screen or tmux rather then neither
• 1746[18:34:52] *** Joins: bijan_ (~bijan_@replaced-ip)
• 1747[18:36:22] <Bombo> hatchetjack: is there anything that screen can do but tmux doesn't?
• 1748[18:36:41] <Bombo> i think tmux is just screen on steroids ;)
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• 1753[18:39:32] <mason> Bombo: screen can be a terminal emulator.
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• 1756[18:41:05] <mason> replaced-url
• 1757[18:41:34] <Bombo> mason: not very useful one ;) i prefer picocom in tmux
• 1758[18:41:43] <Bombo> or minicom
• 1759[18:42:01] <mason> Never used either. I stick to cu.
• 1760[18:42:13] <Bombo> heh.
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• 1762[18:42:22] <mason> You didn't qualify with a particular bar of usefulness, and there it is. :P
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• 1764[18:42:36] <Bombo> =)
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• 1777[18:52:19] <f-a> hello. I am in need to install teamviewer to help a mate. Since it is closed source, and I don't want it to spread havoc on my machine, I thought of making a liveusb. Is there a less convoluted way to do it?
• 1778[18:52:20] *** iamgr00t_ is now known as iamgr00t
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• 1781[18:55:42] <Bombo> f-a: maybe lxc or docker or something?
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• 1783[18:56:52] <petn-randall> f-a: I'd put it in a VM.
• 1784[18:56:55] <f-a> Bombo: thanks! no idea what they are, I'll search them on ddg!
• 1785[18:57:19] <petn-randall> lxc and docker both aren't great with GUI output.
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• 1788[18:59:19] <f-a> thanks
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• 1790[19:00:35] <Bombo> virtualbox then
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• 1800[19:14:17] <RoyK> Bombo: I'd use kvm - btw, docker uses lxc
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• 1805[19:18:49] <hatchetjack> I don't like virtualization
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• 1821[19:28:50] <edarfoc> how is stable doing with Kaby lakes?
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• 1825[19:30:09] <greycat> !kaby lake
• 1826[19:30:10] <dpkg> kaby lake is, like, Intel's next CPU architecture after <skylake>. Debian doesn't have a kernel package that supports Kaby Lake yet (May 2017).
• 1827[19:30:22] <greycat> factoid might be out of date for testing/unstable, but you asked about stable, so...
• 1828[19:30:30] <fr0xk> dpkg: oh that nick :D
• 1829[19:30:30] <dpkg> fr0xk: i haven't a clue
• 1830[19:30:47] <fr0xk> bot?
• 1831[19:30:56] <edarfoc2> hopefully
• 1832[19:31:05] <qqx> fr0xk: Yes dpkg is a bot
• 1833[19:31:42] <edarfoc2> no one with stable in a modern laptop then?
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• 1835[19:32:05] <fr0xk> XPS 13, X1 in Debian 9 here
• 1836[19:32:18] <edarfoc2> how's it?
• 1837[19:32:33] <fr0xk> WiFi is slugglish, requies nonfree
• 1838[19:32:35] <edarfoc2> do you need backports?
• 1839[19:32:38] <fr0xk> but rest of okey
• 1840[19:33:02] <edarfoc2> I happen to have an XPS 13 from late 2016
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• 1842[19:33:20] <edarfoc2> is this the one with slow WiFi?
• 1843[19:33:25] <fr0xk> nouveau is decent though
• 1844[19:33:29] <fr0xk> I am no gamer
• 1845[19:33:58] <fr0xk> Thinkpads are heaven for Debian
• 1846[19:34:34] <jasabella> <3 my thinkpad
• 1847[19:34:41] <edarfoc2> so how is the XPS concretely?
• 1848[19:34:42] <fr0xk> <3
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• 1850[19:35:36] <edarfoc2> fr0xk ?
• 1851[19:35:37] <fr0xk> edarfoc2: Feels kinda macbookish
• 1852[19:35:43] <edarfoc2> aha
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• 1854[19:36:03] <fr0xk> except that sound is crap
• 1855[19:36:14] <fr0xk> s/sound/speakers
• 1856[19:36:17] <edarfoc2> do you use the default kernel and graphic driver?
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• 1858[19:36:34] <edarfoc2> I've been running Fedora since I bought it
• 1859[19:36:55] <edarfoc2> I was wondering about Debian, my classical distro, in this device
• 1860[19:37:12] <fr0xk> I compiled the kernel (but 4.9 works fine too) with wifi modules
• 1861[19:37:27] <edarfoc2> WiFi quality, battery life
• 1862[19:37:48] <fr0xk> I don't know man, what is that makes me always coming back to Debian.
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• 1864[19:38:08] <edarfoc2> stability for me
• 1865[19:38:10] <fr0xk> Ow Quality, that is decent. (If not running GNOME)
• 1866[19:38:23] <fr0xk> But I run GNOME anyway
• 1867[19:39:11] <edarfoc2> I always go by the defaults, or at least try to
• 1868[19:39:20] <edarfoc2> do you have the touch model?
• 1869[19:39:26] <fr0xk> Nope
• 1870[19:39:32] <fr0xk> non-touch
• 1871[19:39:37] <edarfoc2> neither do I
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• 1873[19:39:52] <edarfoc2> how much battery life with light use?
• 1874[19:39:52] <fr0xk> That touch one needs Kernel-4.14 min, I think
• 1875[19:39:59] <edarfoc2> aha
• 1876[19:40:09] <Tenacious-Techhu> When I'm in a Virtual Console as root, and I kill the processes of the user logged into the GUI, for some reason, the viewed Virtual Console switches to the one with the GUI in it... how do I prevent that switch?
• 1877[19:40:19] <fr0xk> I don't know, I keep that mostly with power socket loaded
• 1878[19:40:28] <edarfoc2> I see
• 1879[19:40:48] <edarfoc2> did you compile the 4.9 kernel or a more recent one?
• 1880[19:41:01] <fr0xk> But I will bet running GNOME etc will give 4-5 hr min
• 1881[19:41:12] <fr0xk> Nope, 4.15
• 1882[19:41:22] <fr0xk> It will take time
• 1883[19:41:23] <Tenacious-Techhu> You use openvt to switch to an unused tty, and you use chvt to switch which tty is viewed; but, when I'm using openvt, and I check what number tty to use for chvt, I get a tty *without* a number... how do I specify that to chvt?
• 1884[19:41:31] <fr0xk> I meant I slept
• 1885[19:41:46] <armin> I benchmarked GNOME against KDE and i3 and the results were obvious.
• 1886[19:42:03] <edarfoc2> I'd rather use back ports, I'm not a technical guy
• 1887[19:42:10] <armin> that's not to say KDE was pretty good.
• 1888[19:42:28] <Tenacious-Techhu> Any kbd package maintainers in the house?
• 1889[19:42:28] <edarfoc2> why did you decide to compile a newer one?
• 1890[19:42:32] <fr0xk> edarfoc2: Not me to, I am mathematics teacher :)
• 1891[19:42:39] <fr0xk> neither*
• 1892[19:42:49] <fr0xk> too*
• 1893[19:43:23] <fr0xk> So that I get a kernel that includes some drivers I tweaked
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• 1895[19:43:51] <fr0xk> edarfoc2: Careful with backports!
• 1896[19:44:08] <fr0xk> Search for the issues 1st on interne
• 1897[19:44:10] <fr0xk> Search for the issues 1st on internet
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• 1899[19:44:25] <edarfoc2> fr0xk funny, I'm also a mathematician :)
• 1900[19:44:35] <fr0xk> Hahaha
• 1901[19:44:45] <fr0xk> What's your specialization?
• 1902[19:44:55] <fr0xk> ops offtopic
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• 1913[19:59:18] <petn-randall> So what (Debian packaged) tools could I use to crawl my website for errors? I just want to point it at an url, and let it crawl it all the way through.
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• 1937[20:19:17] <imp> hello there. I'm trying to build a python package, cryptacular. It includes gnu-crypt.h but I can't find a package that provides it. Any ideas?
• 1938[20:19:43] *** Joins: scwizard (4672cac2@replaced-ip)
• 1939[20:19:48] <scwizard> just gonna put this out there
• 1940[20:19:57] *** Joins: argusbr (~online@replaced-ip)
• 1941[20:20:02] <scwizard> tmux should be part of the packages installed by default
• 1942[20:20:22] <greycat> It competes with screen, which is much older and more widely used.
• 1943[20:20:28] *** Joins: pringau (~pringau@replaced-ip)
• 1944[20:20:31] <greycat> And neither of them is essential.
• 1945[20:20:36] <scwizard> not having tmux installed is basically the same as not having less installed
• 1946[20:20:49] <scwizard> oh that's a good point
• 1947[20:21:00] <scwizard> but tbf
• 1948[20:21:03] <scwizard> vim is installed by default
• 1949[20:21:49] <greycat> not the full thing
• 1950[20:21:59] <scwizard> true...
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• 1963[20:30:16] <ksk> petn-randall: httrack is nice for crawling a website
• 1964[20:31:18] <ksk> not sure about finding errors though
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• 1966[20:33:42] <hadrianweb> You can probe with ZAP's spider
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• 1971[20:36:58] <fpat> "tidy" can check syntax and formatting
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• 1986[20:53:57] <fpat> wow, almost 60 thousand packages. respect much
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• 2000[21:05:59] <fpat> how can i replace the code that is used when i press "print"?
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• 2063[21:55:40] <sussudio> fuck you very much, "upgrade" to jessie.
• 2064[21:56:47] <mefistofeles> ?
• 2065[21:57:05] <sussudio> changed shit without asking me.
• 2066[21:57:21] <greycat> !jessie release notes
• 2067[21:57:22] <dpkg> Release notes for Debian 8 "Jessie" are at replaced-url
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• 2069[21:57:22] <at0m> that's why there's release and upgrade notices
• 2070[21:57:35] <mefistofeles> ↑
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• 2072[21:57:46] <sussudio> if i want a 80x25 console, leave it alone.
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• 2074[21:58:21] <DammitJim> I am looking to replace a bad drive in a Volume Group
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• 2076[21:58:34] <DammitJim> what is the recommended way of doing this so I don't loose any data (I have backups)
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• 2083[22:08:01] <rainfyre> just now upgrading to Jessie? Wowsers.
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• 2086[22:08:59] <jhutchins_wk> DammitJim: How full is the VG?
• 2087[22:09:12] <greycat> There are *lot* of wheezy and older systems out there.
• 2088[22:10:22] <rainfyre> yeah, I guess so.
• 2089[22:10:46] <DammitJim> not very full... let me check
• 2090[22:10:49] <sussudio> i'd still be running woody on my router if it was usable.
• 2091[22:12:29] <DammitJim> jhutchins_wk, to be more specific, where do I see how full it is?
• 2092[22:12:37] <DammitJim> vgdisplay says it's 1.36TiB
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• 2094[22:13:22] <rainfyre> sussudio, why wouldn't you want security patches?
• 2095[22:13:51] <greycat> DammitJim: in vgdisplay, Free PE
• 2096[22:14:02] *** Joins: baptist (~baptist@replaced-ip)
• 2097[22:14:07] <greycat> and Alloc PE, its counterpart
• 2098[22:14:08] <sussudio> there are no services running on it. also, woody doesn't take up a full gigabyte of space.
• 2099[22:14:09] <DammitJim> Free is 0 / 0
• 2100[22:14:18] <greycat> ...
• 2101[22:14:33] <greycat> So, 100% allocated. No free space at all.
• 2102[22:14:45] <DammitJim> yes, I think I originally allocated it all
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• 2110[22:20:35] <p0lyph3m> DammitJim: how big is new hdd and can u plug it in simultaniously ?
• 2111[22:21:10] <DammitJim> p0lyph3m, 1TB... I'm right now looking at where I can plug it in...
• 2112[22:21:52] <p0lyph3m> the broken hdd , is it totaly broken or just some bad blocks ?
• 2113[22:22:10] <DammitJim> just bad blocks
• 2114[22:22:51] <rainfyre> cool :)
• 2115[22:22:53] <Tenacious-Techhu> When I'm in a Virtual Console as root, and I kill the processes of the user logged into the GUI, for some reason, the viewed Virtual Console switches to the one with the GUI in it... how do I prevent that switch?
• 2116[22:22:54] <jhutchins_wk> DammitJim: df -h, add up the LVs that are on that VG.
• 2117[22:23:11] <Tenacious-Techhu> You use openvt to switch to an unused tty, and you use chvt to switch which tty is viewed; but, when I'm using openvt, and I check what number tty to use for chvt, I get a tty *without* a number... how do I specify that to chvt?
• 2118[22:23:20] <jhutchins_wk> DammitJim: I'm NOT an LVM expert, but I believe that you can remove it as long as you still have enough space for the data that's on it.
• 2119[22:24:25] <p0lyph3m> you have to force repair the filesystems in vg (marking bad blocks as non readable , and rescuing recoverable inodes) , then join new hdd to vg , then pvmove the extents from old hdd to new hdd , and then remove oldhdd from vg
• 2120[22:25:15] <p0lyph3m> thats what i would do
• 2121[22:25:59] <p0lyph3m> what do u thinkpad jhutchins_wk ?
• 2122[22:26:30] <DammitJim> interesting
• 2123[22:27:17] <DammitJim> I know I don't have enough room in the current setup
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• 2125[22:27:56] <quiliro> hello
• 2126[22:28:19] <DammitJim> it's just 2 hard drives and the one that is good is only 500G and I'm using over 500G
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• 2132[22:30:03] <p0lyph3m> i had bad blocks on / 2 weeks ago , and updatedb cron job "froze" my sys while trying to read bad blocks repeatedly ... i remounted / readonly and fsck.ext4 -p -c / , to mark/rescue bad blocks ... now everything is fine again
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• 2135[22:31:28] <p0lyph3m> DammitJim: so you *must* first add new hdd to vg then free oldhdd with "pvmove" and then remove oldhdd from vg with pvremove
• 2136[22:32:20] <jhutchins_wk> p0lyph3m: You should be running smartmon and should be watching fir increasing bad blocks.
• 2137[22:32:45] <DammitJim> ok, I'm going to add the new hard drive
• 2138[22:32:47] <jhutchins_wk> p0lyph3m: Thanks for clarifying the procedure. Makes sense. I'm slowly learning LVM.
• 2139[22:32:48] <DammitJim> then boot the system
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• 2141[22:32:57] <DammitJim> you are saying then I need to run pvmove?
• 2142[22:33:14] <p0lyph3m> jhutchins_wk: yea , hope no more bad blocks !!!
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• 2144[22:34:31] <p0lyph3m> DammitJim: pvmove movs exxtends from on pv to another pv thereby freeing *oldhdd*
• 2145[22:34:40] <jhutchins_wk> p0lyph3m: If you see a lot of bad block messages in dmesg, buy the replacement NOW.
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• 2148[22:35:36] <p0lyph3m> jhutchins_wk: no more bad blocks , since the last time
• 2149[22:35:53] <quiliro> how can i know what package a file belongs to?
• 2150[22:36:01] <greycat> quiliro: dpkg -S filename
• 2151[22:36:16] <greycat> some files aren't installed as part of a package, though
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• 2153[22:36:45] <GNU\colossus> hi
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• 2155[22:37:15] <p0lyph3m> me neither lvm expert , dunno if pvmove gets called implicitly if you just remove oldhdd_pv from vg ... maybe man and/or #lvm
• 2156[22:37:44] <GNU\colossus> is there any headless solution (that, fro bonus points, is _not_ libvirt-based) to manage qemu executing VMDK images/appliances?
• 2157[22:38:45] <quiliro> thanks greycat
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• 2164[22:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1282
• 2165[22:44:44] <quiliro> i have this error on PureOS. I would like to know if it is upstream (Debian originated):
• 2166[22:44:48] <quiliro> symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgobject-2.0.so.0:
• 2167[22:44:48] <quiliro> undefined symbol: g_date:copy
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• 2169[22:47:30] <p0lyph3m> DammitJim: you can even attach new hdd over usb(3) and join the vg .. takes longer of course to move
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• 2172[22:48:47] <DammitJim> I just connected it
• 2173[22:48:49] <DammitJim> let's see what it says
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• 2175[22:50:38] <ca1ek> how will the kernel behave if there's no free ram and no swap?
• 2176[22:50:58] <greycat> typically it starts killing processes
• 2177[22:51:05] <p0lyph3m> ca1ek: undefined
• 2178[22:51:07] <ca1ek> the one which is using most ram?
• 2179[22:51:09] <ca1ek> or at random
• 2180[22:51:19] <greycat> !oom
• 2181[22:51:19] <dpkg> what a woc says. Out Of Memory, or replaced-url
• 2182[22:51:29] <`Kevin> ca1ek: there is many variables to that question (which will be killed)
• 2183[22:52:03] <DammitJim> ok, so my bad hard drive is /dev/sdb and my new one is /dev/sdc
• 2184[22:52:16] <DammitJim> do I just do a pvmove /dev/sdb /dev/sdc ?
• 2185[22:52:18] <`Kevin> replaced-url
• 2186[22:52:29] <ca1ek> well I was there a couple of days ago about some process breaking my system by taking all the cpu resources and ram
• 2187[22:52:41] <ca1ek> it's happened 5 times since then
• 2188[22:52:57] <ca1ek> is there some resource logger which will let me check what was using my cpu the most some time ago?
• 2189[22:53:07] <greycat> highly unlikely
• 2190[22:53:28] <ca1ek> and, if a process takes up all resources so everything doesn't work and I can't even switch to tty1 and using SysRq has a 1 minute delay
• 2191[22:53:37] <p0lyph3m> DammitJim: if /dev/sdc is lvm initialized and added to vg then pvmove /dev/sdb moves all extends from sdb to other pvs in vg
• 2192[22:53:39] <ca1ek> it's higlhy certain it's a process with high priority
• 2193[22:53:52] <ca1ek> yes?
• 2194[22:54:00] <greycat> uh... no?
• 2195[22:54:13] <ca1ek> well I'm trying to blame pulse audio
• 2196[22:54:14] <DammitJim> p0lyph3m, someone was telling me to run ddrescue because of the bad sectors..
• 2197[22:54:31] <`Kevin> ca1ek: does your kernel log not have a process dump from this time frame of oom killer running?
• 2198[22:54:53] <greycat> if the whole system is being sluggish and unmanageable, it's usually because of I/O being swamped, either because you're thrashing (swapping) like a bat out of hell, or because of some USB transfers
• 2199[22:55:07] <greycat> won't be anything to do with CPU, typically
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• 2201[22:55:39] <p0lyph3m> DammitJim: dunno ddrescue , but as i said i'd fsck.ext4 -c -p <all fs in vg> first to mark/repair/rescue bad blocks
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• 2203[22:56:04] <DammitJim> oh
• 2204[22:56:44] <ca1ek> Kevin, well I was just asking what would happen if I were to disable swap. Since I have 12gb of it, whatever process was draining my resources kept writing to the swap
• 2205[22:56:59] <ca1ek> which is slow and would take at least an hour to fill up and oom
• 2206[22:57:10] <p0lyph3m> you might loose the inodes stored on the bad blocks , but they get marked and no more read afterwards
• 2207[22:57:28] <ca1ek> i'm looking at disabling swap as a solution, since then it will actually kill processes rather than let them render my system unusable until I restart
• 2208[22:57:35] <greycat> ca1ek: sounds more like you want a record of what processes were using the most *memory* at the time, not the most CPU
• 2209[22:57:39] <`Kevin> ca1ek: whatever would happen would potentially happen more frequently its difficult to say given this is a specific scenario
• 2210[22:57:49] <ca1ek> Well, what happens is that both ram and cpu are used up
• 2211[22:57:57] <greycat> CPU is not the issue
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• 2213[22:58:09] <ca1ek> CPU usage goes to 30.00 on quad cores
• 2214[22:58:14] <ca1ek> and the memory starts filling up
• 2215[22:58:18] <greycat> It may be a symptom that you can use to help you find the process more easily, nothing more.
• 2216[22:58:29] <greycat> You mean load average.
• 2217[22:58:29] <Tenacious-Techhu> When I'm in a Virtual Console as root, and I kill the processes of the user logged into the GUI, for some reason, the viewed Virtual Console switches to the one with the GUI in it... how do I prevent that switch?
• 2218[22:58:36] <ca1ek> yes load average
• 2219[22:58:43] <`Kevin> ca1ek: system load rises because of I/O wait from swap usage
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• 2222[22:58:55] <Tenacious-Techhu> You use openvt to switch to an unused tty, and you use chvt to switch which tty is viewed; but, when I'm using openvt, and I check what number tty to use for chvt, I get a tty *without* a number... how do I specify that to chvt?
• 2223[22:58:56] <`Kevin> ca1ek: its all a byproduct of overcommit of ram
• 2224[22:59:07] * greycat agrees
• 2225[22:59:09] <`Kevin> im going afk greycat knows whats up :)
• 2226[22:59:17] <ca1ek> so wait, while waiting for swap, the kernel can't switch to other processes and the cpu time is still used?
• 2227[22:59:22] <greycat> I'm leaving soon too. It's 5 PM here.
• 2228[22:59:37] <`Kevin> ca1ek: CPU %wait
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• 2230[22:59:43] <greycat> ca1ek: load average is how many processes are *waiting* for their chance to do stuff.
• 2231[23:00:04] <greycat> Which can (often is) an indication of I/O bottleneck.
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• 2234[23:00:47] <ca1ek> I think I know what's causing the memory leak
• 2235[23:00:57] <greycat> Tenacious-Techhu: clearly nobody can answer your questions the way you are asking them, so stop repeating them verbatim and change up the wording.
• 2236[23:00:59] <ca1ek> nemo
• 2237[23:01:18] <ca1ek> I caught it using up 6gb of ram yesterday after leaving my pc for a while
• 2238[23:01:39] <greycat> I have absolutely no idea what "I check what number tty to use for chvt" means, or what "I get a tty without a number" means.
• 2239[23:02:09] <greycat> Try saying what command you ran and what its output was.
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• 2253[23:09:15] <annadane> also i don't think it's usual for the tty to switch to the graphical tty/workspace like that
• 2254[23:09:27] <annadane> if you kill a process it should just stay there
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• 2256[23:10:16] <annadane> ,v openvt
• 2257[23:10:18] <judd> No package named 'openvt' was found in amd64.
• 2258[23:10:46] <annadane> even apt searching it, it's not found in debian (stable)
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• 2261[23:12:04] <annadane> in fairness i think Tenacious-Techhu's question is understandable enough
• 2262[23:12:09] <annadane> i could be in the minority
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• 2270[23:15:52] <annadane> Tenacious-Techhu, where is openvt from? at least for your second question you may try asking upstream or in some support forum
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• 2272[23:16:01] <annadane> if it's not packaged for debian we're unlikely to know
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• 2278[23:19:08] <annadane> what i get from your first question is "i switch to a virtual terminal and kill a GUI application which is running on the main window i use for my computing, and it switches from the virtual terminal to said window"
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• 2280[23:19:18] <annadane> which to me, sounds odd, and not usual behavior
• 2281[23:19:48] <annadane> by main window i mean ctrl + alt + f7, or others if you started it with startx
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• 2283[23:21:26] <annadane> so for your first question, i'm confused, for your second question, openvt is apparently not a part of debian to begin with so the question should be asked elsewhere
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• 2285[23:23:10] <rant> ,i kbd
• 2286[23:23:11] <judd> Package kbd (utils, optional) in stretch/amd64: Linux console font and keytable utilities. Version: 2.0.3-2+b1; Size: 334.5k; Installed: 1632k; Homepage: replaced-url
• 2287[23:23:31] <rant> kbd: /usr/share/man/man1/openvt.1.gz
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• 2289[23:24:41] <jelly> annadane, compton works well with nvidia drivers, it has a zillion options to make it work with various broken 3d drivers and nvidia's is less broken than most on linux wrt OpenGL compliance
• 2290[23:25:14] <jelly> judd, file bin/openvt
• 2291[23:25:18] <judd> Search for bin/openvt in stretch/amd64: kbd: bin/openvt
• 2292[23:25:27] <annadane> and ok, i should have apt-file search openvt first, sorry
• 2293[23:25:42] <jelly> judd is easier than apt-file
• 2294[23:25:50] <rant> or dpkg -S openvt
• 2295[23:26:02] <jasabella> just about to say that rant :)
• 2296[23:26:05] <annadane> still, i know nothing of kbd... if people think tenacious's question is intelligible they can answer
• 2297[23:26:08] <jelly> what you should have done however is not speak if you're not sure...
• 2298[23:26:34] <jelly> confusion breeds bad support
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• 2303[23:29:34] <jelly> Tenacious-Techhu, if you have a DM (display manager / GUI login manager) service running, it typically restarts X when an already running X session ends. That restart switches VT to the one where X just got started.
• 2304[23:30:07] <jelly> Tenacious-Techhu, if you don't want that to happen, the simplest thing to do is not use a DM at all.
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• 2317[23:41:47] <FreeBDSM> hello
• 2318[23:42:25] <FreeBDSM> why did gstm port get dropped?
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• 2321[23:43:44] <jelly> ,v gstm
• 2322[23:43:45] <judd> Package: gstm on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.2-8; jessie: 1.2-8.1; stretch: 1.2-8.1+b1
• 2323[23:43:51] <jelly> ,bug rm gstm
• 2324[23:43:54] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 2325[23:44:05] <jelly> see above
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• 2332[23:52:23] <Tenacious-Techhu> jelly, that is likely the source of the problem, yes; would you say it would probably be sufficient to stop the Display Manager while the script runs?
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• 2334[23:52:42] <jelly> Tenacious-Techhu, yes
• 2335[23:52:45] <Tenacious-Techhu> Also, do you have any thoughts on my problem with openvt and chvt?
• 2336[23:53:06] <jelly> "what are you doing this and why does it matter"
• 2337[23:53:11] <jelly> why* are you doing this
• 2338[23:53:42] <Tenacious-Techhu> I'm trying to obliterate default users.
• 2339[23:53:52] <jelly> what are "default users"?
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• 2342[23:54:48] <Tenacious-Techhu> On your typical embedded linux appliance stuff, usually they have certain users that exist by default; I'm trying to generate a script to remove them, and replace them with equivalent users under a newer, publicly unknown, and therefore, more secure, name.
• 2343[23:55:00] <Tenacious-Techhu> The "why" doesn't really change anything.
• 2344[23:55:05] <Tenacious-Techhu> I need an answer to the question I posed.
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• 2346[23:56:07] <Tenacious-Techhu> When openvt gives me a Virtual Console without a number, how do I then feed that to chvt, which appears to always require a number? Or is it just as broken as that sounds?
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• 2349[23:59:19] <jelly> Tenacious-Techhu, which debian release is this embedded linux appliance stuff based on? Debian creates exactly one interactive user by default.
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