69[01:05:55] <ogo> ratrace, trying CFLAGS=... as in your
message gives the exact same error "ERROR: No matching
distribution found for tensorflow" like the one in
replaced-url
70[01:06:21] <ogo> i think for some reason the
":all:" bit is not accepted
90[01:14:56] <tuxd3v> shout I put the entries in /etc/fstab
also?
91[01:15:11] <BCMM> i don't think that's actually an
error
92[01:16:09] <BCMM> i think it's just because it's a
"thing that should be done during boot" as opposed to a
"service which is always running", if you see what i mean
93[01:16:26] <BCMM> you could start it manually or just reboot
170[02:18:57] <JordiGH> Hm, cron was failing but it didn't
email jordi@localhost with the problem. At least my local mailbox
seems empty. Although I'm not even sure I have a local MTA
installed. Do I need one?
179[02:31:20] <mutante> JordiGH: you could replace crons with
systemd timers and then you have stuff in regular logs and can check
(and alert if you want) on failed state of the service.maybe use
something completely different from email as the notification
command
207[02:48:23] <sney> I'm canadian, and this is #debian. if
you have a debian support question, please ask. if you are just
looking for other br people to chat with, please find a different
channel
241[03:27:02] <cakeface> are MX Linux questions answered here?
When I use screenfetch it shows debian buster 10.7 (but it is mx
linux)
242[03:27:19] <ectospasm> !not debian
243[03:27:19] <dpkg> Your distribution may be based on and have
software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't
and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare
replaced-url
244[03:27:25] <cakeface> thanks
245[03:27:34] <mutante> cakeface: you can try ##linux
337[05:10:17] <maxrazer> Anyone got pipewire working to replace
pulse audio? My audio setup is really messed up and a hassle to
manage. I'm hoping pipewire would behave better or be more
automatic.
352[05:36:33] <n4dir> the question has been asked a couple of
times these days, in several chatrooms, and i didn't hear an
answer very convincing. maxrazer
359[05:39:14] <n4dir> you thought of jack? probably yes, you
did. There is #lau and #opensourcemusicians too.
360[05:39:58] <maxrazer> I don't think I want to use jack,
and I'm not doing any mucisian stuff. I just record system
audio with a mic sometimes and also want the right device to be used
to play back audio.
361[05:40:18] <n4dir> the much it was asked bout pipewire these
days, we should hear more of it in the near future.
362[05:40:20] <sney> I think aloo_shu (an OFTC regular) was
successfully using pipewire in place of pulse, but I haven't
seen him around for a bit
365[05:41:07] <n4dir> maxrazer: i think both mentioned channels
would help with "just recording with a mic". Also
whichever software you use to record should have a channel
366[05:41:35] <maxrazer> I got the recording working. It just
makes it easier for pulse audio to get confused.
460[08:51:41] <Lope> ratrace, I'm setting up a new install,
I'm trying your fancy nspawn thing: `systemd-nspawn -D
/tmp/foo/ -a bash` but the problem is blkid inside the container
can't find _anything_ at all so cryptsetup isn't so happy.
461[08:52:22] <Lope> whereas if I hypothetically use bind mounts
and chroot, it would find the blkid's
587[10:07:45] <Lope> anyone know why when I chroot into a
mounted fs, because I want to setup grub on it etc, like this:
`systemd-nspawn -D /tmp/foo/ -a bash`
588[10:07:51] <Lope> blkid doesn't show any drives?
589[10:08:03] <Lope> How can I make some drives available to the
container
590[10:08:40] <ksk> Lope: I dont know about systemd-nspawn, but
if you just used regular "chroot" you would have to mount
/dev /proc etc into the chroot-hierachy
591[10:08:44] <ksk> (bind-mount them)
592[10:09:18] <Lope> ksk, I used to use chroot, but if I rbind
it wrecks my host when I `unmount -l /tmp/foo/dev/{shm,pts}`
594[10:10:01] <Lope> ksk, ratrace says you can use
systemd-nspawn instead of bind mounting and chrooting... and it
seems passable except no drives appear inside of it.
595[10:10:20] <ksk> isnt there a command that scans for drives?
596[10:10:29] <Lope> blkid can't see anything
597[10:10:31] <ksk> maybe that is run on debian startup, but not
in chroot.
598[10:10:40] <Lope> nspawn likely must be told to make drives
available
704[11:42:39] <imox> anyway could you say me how to install
mariadb 10.4 ?
705[11:42:48] <jelly> imox, that site doesn't exactly
scream quality but quantity. Why not try the upstream mariadb
official docs for their repo?
replaced-url
712[11:46:17] <arseru> Hi! Is keys.gnupg.net down? The following
command is failing for me: apt-key adv --keyserver keys.gnupg.net
--recv-key 'E19F5F87128899B192B1A2C2AD5F960A256A04AF'
713[11:46:39] *** Quits: H-var (H-var@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
714[11:47:03] <imox> jelly: gpg: WARNING: unable to fetch URI
replaced-url
765[11:57:14] <tmm88> if you have trouble installing mariadb
install a proper version of ubuntu and you will get done within a
fifth of the necessary time in debian
766[11:57:14] <jelly> it's the most fundamental command to
verify dns resolution works. (you can check dns with ping, but it
does more than just dns)
767[11:57:28] <jelly> imox, does your VPS have ipv6 connectivity
at all?
768[11:57:40] <imox> no ipv4
769[11:58:34] <ratrace> well, if you use "hosts
mariadb.org" it shows both ipv4, ipv6 and mx .... frankly,
dunno why getent would be most fundamental, it returns only ipv6 for
me as well
770[11:59:13] *** Quits: H-var (H-var@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
771[11:59:14] <imox> ok
772[11:59:33] <ratrace> *host btw, not hosts (plural)
779[12:01:24] <ratrace> it shows ipv6 of that name. you can get
AAAA results even if you do not have ipv6 connectivity; so are you
sure you have ipv6 there?
781[12:01:38] <tmm88> ok, for hosting core services debian may
be better then ubuntu, but for the sake of general linux usage,
oriented for a user perspective ubuntu may be a way of a better
option
782[12:01:39] <ratrace> can you ping -6 mariadb.org ?
783[12:01:52] <imox> no I don’t have it only ipv4
784[12:01:59] <ratrace> tmm88: no
785[12:02:09] <ratrace> imox: can you ping -4 mariadb.org ?
786[12:02:28] <jelly> tmm88, they're not asking for a
mariadb install, they're asking for a specific version
787[12:02:37] <imox> yes the ping works
788[12:02:39] <Dagger> you want `getent ahosts`, not `getent
hosts`
794[12:04:18] <imox> getent ahosts mariadb.org also works
795[12:05:28] <jelly> imox, does "telnet
one-of-the-iptv4-address-results-from-getent-ahosts 443" work?
796[12:05:43] <tmm88> that's the kind of stuff that works
way much better in ubuntu. of course, if you want to be a sysadmin
you shall try to move slowly into debian and then later into arch,
but for the sake of general godsake knows what, ubuntu is way much
easier to use. of course that if you are trying to fix this from a
user perspective ubuntu is better. but for a server perspective
it's arch and debian period. so if you
797[12:05:46] <Dagger> (and `hosts` is a DNS client -- it
doesn't test system name resolution, it parses resolv.conf for
a DNS server and then queries it directly. so it'll test if you
can reach the DNS server it picks, and it tests if that server is
responding, but won't tell you very much about how other
programs will behave)
798[12:05:47] <mamonetti> is there any way to know why an usb
wifi interface is renamed from wlanXmon to renameX when switching to
monitor mode? i'm using a rbpi and i'm forcing the wlanX
name in the first place with a set of udev rules like this one:
ACTION=="add", SUBSYSTEM=="net",
SUBSYSTEMS=="usb", KERNELS=="1-1.2",
NAME="wlan1"
799[12:05:49] <mamonetti> thx
800[12:05:49] <tmm88> are trying to install maria db on a
server, cool. if you are trying to install maria db not on a server
but in localhost for the sake of running the service in a server
debian and arch please
801[12:06:17] <ratrace> so I'm gonna WAG it here .... the
VPS has ipv6 address so the OS thinks it's okay to use ipv6,
but the network isn't set up really, and it fails. programs
won't re-try ipv4 if ipv6 fails on otherwise enabled ipv6 (with
routing) system
802[12:06:19] <imox> jelly: yes telnet works
803[12:06:28] <mamonetti> i mean, it works fine if i don't
enter monitor mode
804[12:06:45] <jelly> imox, well then apt ought to work as well,
and not return Connection refused, so that's weird
805[12:06:52] <jelly> apt-key*
806[12:06:59] <ratrace> this can be verified by wgetting
something, eg. that asc file, via ipv6 and ipv4 respectively. if
ipv6 works, then this theory fails.
807[12:07:08] <jelly> imox, which IP did you try?
808[12:07:25] <imox> 178.63.77.61
809[12:08:29] <Dagger> ratrace: most programs, including
apt-get, do retry. apt-get has an issue where it only reports the
*last* connection failure though, which seems to constantly mislead
people. I like `wget` for testing since it prints the list of DNS
results, each connection attempt and a failure reason for each
attempt
816[12:09:39] <imox> Connecting to mariadb.org
(mariadb.org)|2a01:4f8:121:3039::2|:443... failed: No route to host.
817[12:09:43] <ratrace> Dagger: if IPV6 is locally set up,
programs generally do not "fall back" to ipv4.
818[12:09:51] <ratrace> imox: now try tahat again with -4
instead of -6
819[12:10:02] *** Quits: dselect (~dselect@replaced-ip) (Quit: ouch... that hurt)
820[12:10:19] <ratrace> Dagger: it's a different matter if
there's a list to try, like eg. apt would have with mirrors or
something
821[12:10:30] <imox> with 4 it works ;)
822[12:10:35] <ratrace> well then.... theory confirmed
823[12:11:08] <Dagger> no, they do. getaddrinfo() returns a list
of addresses for the hostname lookup and programs iterate over
those. apt does that too
828[12:12:49] <ratrace> Dagger: but that's not true really?
QED here, wget -6 fails, wget -4 doesnt? why doesn't apt retry
via ipv4 then, if what you say is true?
829[12:12:55] <imox> so why I need a ipv6 connectivity?
830[12:13:20] <ratrace> imox: can you, say, wget -6
replaced-url
831[12:13:42] <imox> no i
832[12:13:48] <Dagger> ...because you gave it -6? that's
the option that makes it only look up the v6 addresses, not the v4
ones
833[12:14:15] <ratrace> Dagger: no I'm talking about apt,
not wget, why apt doesn't retry ipv4? wget here shows that -6
is unreaachable and -4 is reachable
834[12:14:22] <jelly> now we merely have to figure out what
apt-key does
843[12:16:28] <jelly> ratrace, are you saying each app has to
deduce whether to use ipv6 or ipv4 on its own? That seems silly
844[12:16:37] <ratrace> so again, if ipv6 is set up locally but
doesn't really work (provider's firewall, broken routing
ousside the VPS, etc...) .... ipv6 is set up as far as the OS is
concerned, ie. has a routable ipv6
845[12:17:03] <ratrace> jelly: no, I'm saying apps
generally do not consider ipv6 failures as "oh ipv6 failed,
maybre retry via ipv4"
846[12:17:09] <Dagger> a pastebin of `ifconfig` might be useful
to see if v6 is configured or not
847[12:17:11] <jelly> imox, pastebin the outputs of "ip
a" and "ip -6 r", please
848[12:17:26] <ratrace> there's a list, yes, as Dagger
suggested if there's multiple A/AAAA records, but there's
no guarantee a prog will try ipv4 if ipv6 fails
849[12:17:30] <Dagger> [10:54:04] <imox> gpg: WARNING:
unable to fetch URI
replaced-url
850[12:17:59] <jelly> ratrace, if the resolver was irrelevant we
wouldn't have /etc/gai.conf to configure it, I think
852[12:18:41] <ratrace> jelly: I meant irrelevant to this
particular issue: "why the resolver tries ipv6 when
there's no ipv6 connectivity"
853[12:18:41] <Dagger> ratrace: there's no guarantee, but
the standard code for connecting a socket involves getaddrinfo() and
looping over the results, which will try all addresses from all
families
854[12:18:41] <jelly> well that's weird
855[12:20:16] <jelly> imox, it seems your machine had ipv6
configured at some point, and there's leftovers of that, but no
ipv6 address assigned and no default v6 route
865[12:24:00] <imox> jelly: and what should I do now xD?
866[12:24:01] *** Quits: horner (~horner@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
867[12:24:22] <jelly> imox, a stupid workaround might be to
reboot the container with ipv6 disabled, _if_ it's possible to
disable it for a single container
873[12:26:15] <Dagger> isn't the problem here a firewall?
given the "connection refused" error
874[12:27:25] <jelly> Dagger, well, they tried telnet ipv6 443
and it worked
875[12:27:29] <jelly> sorry.
876[12:27:30] <Dagger> and we still don't know whether v4
or v6 is being tried first, because we haven't seen the output
from `getent ahosts` or `wget` or anything that would show the
connection order
877[12:27:34] <jelly> telnet ipv4 443 worked
878[12:28:01] <Dagger> that's true... so why is gpg
reporting connection refused?
879[12:28:04] <imox> Dagger: no I turned off iptables for
testing
975[13:02:16] <jim> if not, I would expect there to be a
sponsor, who would test it
976[13:02:25] <jelly> [11:36:28] <jelly> FloridaMan, I
kind of assumed you installed hplip from Debian's archives
[11:36:39] <FloridaMan> no from the HP site [11:36:43]
<jim> we don't think it's HP's doing though
978[13:02:55] <jelly> I read that as "no, from the HP
site"
979[13:04:08] <jim> oh, by way of explanation, he tried to
install from hp's site, things didn't work, so we
suggested he install the debian packaged version, and now he got a
mess
980[13:04:26] <imox> hmmm can I do it manualy ;) ? I need
mariadb 10.4
1054[13:59:20] <ratrace> jack2019: it's possible. you just
need a keyfile available to the initramfs scripts on boot, and that
keyfile is specified in the crypttab. question is... what exactly
you want to achieve? automatic unlock pretty much negates the reason
for encryption
1058[14:00:18] <ratrace> such a setup is typically used when you
have encrypted /boot (unlocked with a typed-in passphrase), and then
the /boot directory contains the keyfile with which rootfs is
unlocked, so you only have to type something in once
1059[14:00:23] <jack2019> ratrace: I do not want in any reboot to
enter the luks password
1060[14:00:50] <ratrace> jack2019: then why encrypt at all
1061[14:02:05] *** Quits: akp55 (~akp55@replaced-ip) (Disconnected by services)
1063[14:02:09] <jack2019> ratrace: in case if i forget to wipe
the broken disk
1064[14:02:11] *** akp55_ is now known as akp55__
1065[14:02:40] <ratrace> jack2019: if you forget to wipe the
broken disk, and the keyfile is on that disk, clearly in plain sight
through crypttab ... there's on point in that encryption
1066[14:02:48] <ratrace> *no
1067[14:03:57] <ratrace> you're DoingItWrong(tm). but if you
insist on doing it wrong and want to delute yourself that you have
data encryption with the key clearly available on the same drive
.... you need the keyfile option in the crypttab. iirc the initramfs
hooks parse that and copy the file into initramfs, so you'd put
it, for example, somewhere under /etc/
1074[14:05:24] <ratrace> you could, however, make a setup with
the key on _different_ device. but that device would also need to be
available on boot, constantly. it's a bit better than having
the key on the same device, but still not it.
1077[14:06:34] <ratrace> the trick for that is to use so called
"keyscripts" that make this other device mountable and
available for initramfs scripts on boot. whether debian has such
keyscripts available or you have to write up your own, I don't
know.
1083[14:08:43] <linuxmint> USB recognised on Mint. I wrote
debian-10.7.0-amd64-netinst.iso to USB. Insert USB in machine1 and
Boot doesn't see USB? USB light is on?
1084[14:08:45] <ratrace> jack2019: this looks like CloseEnough
guide for what you want, assuming this approach (different devices),
on a quick glance:
replaced-url
1085[14:09:30] *** Quits: EmleyMoor (42b789682f@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1086[14:09:43] <ratrace> jack2019: the approach in that SO post
does the "write up your own keyscript" approach
1087[14:09:51] <linuxmint> machine1 boots other OS.iso when
seeing the USB.
1103[14:13:22] <ratrace> linuxmint: I don't know what that
Mint application does. you can use cp or dd to write the ISO to the
device (note, raw /dev device, not a partition on it). Please do
verify checksum before you do so. it's not impossible for
mirrors to corrupt downloaded data, I've had a few do that.
1104[14:13:42] <ratrace> jack2019: it can be an USB stick or any
device really, as long as it's not the same one with the LUKS
container you're unlocking.
1105[14:14:21] <ratrace> jack2019: make sure that you have BOTH a
passphrase and a keyfile, so if you lose the keyfile, you can still
unlock it with a passphrase. that's what that SO post does. a
LUKS container can have multiple keys to unlock it with, yes.
1107[14:15:02] <ratrace> jack2019: also note that contents of a
keyfile can be your passphrase. they're interchangeable for
cryptsetup. for example, if you had only the passphrase, you could
echo -n "that passsphrase" > some_file and then use
that file for --key-file param
1108[14:15:17] <ratrace> (but it's best if they're not
the same)
1109[14:15:17] <jack2019> retrace: thank you. yes, I think 8
slots exist for keys
1110[14:16:22] <linuxmint> ratrace: is there a checksum at
replaced-url
1111[14:16:35] <ratrace> jack2019: I'm not retrace, but
ratrace. you can use tab completion to specify someone's nick.
eg. rat<tab> will autocomplete my nick
1112[14:17:27] <jack2019> ratrace: I am to old and I am not
wearing me glasses,my apologies
1113[14:17:45] *** Quits: D4rk2020 (~darkangel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1118[14:20:26] <ratrace> jack2019: no need to appologies, just
suggesting more efficient approach. if you misspel a nick, that
person might not get a highlight that you're talking to them
1120[14:21:08] <linuxmint> I rely on Chat notifications, pops up
in my Panel if I'm on my Browser.
1121[14:21:58] <ratrace> linuxmint: yes every mirror should have
them. I see it's jumping through hoops to get to one, terrible
redesign of the debian front page that didn't include a quick
link to csum verification.... and five minutes later I still
can't find an easy way to reach them. *golfclap* to debian web
designers.
replaced-url
1128[14:24:28] <linuxmint> ratrace: thankyou. Just checking if I
can write a DVD/CD image to USB and then the checksum command. I
used MD5, but it must be redundant.
1129[14:25:05] <jack2019> linuxmint: do not trust only debian,
try to match and from others, search for debian mirrors:
replaced-url
1130[14:25:06] <ratrace> linuxmint: md5 is good enough, you
don't need crypto strength. though my OCD wouldn't go
below sha256
1131[14:25:30] <ratrace> linuxmint: jack2019's suggestion is
sound, make sure your csum comes from a _different_ mirror, than the
one you downloaded the iso from
1133[14:26:14] <ratrace> linuxmint: and you can simply run (as
root) cp debian-10.7.0-amd64-netinst.iso /dev/sdX (where sdX is the
actual USB disk). note: this will overwrite everything on the
device, no questions asked, so be careful which one you specify.
1137[14:27:36] <linuxmint> ratrace: thanks. I think it's not
as simple as copying a .iso to USB. Mint writes the .iso to USB, so
the USB boots on the machine install.
1151[14:33:50] <ratrace> jack2019: it's the simplest
solution. you can integrate with ssh (using dropbear) and use some
kind of automation to help out (eg. ansible)
1152[14:34:17] <linuxmint> ratrace: would this be a full version
iso or dvd?
replaced-url
1153[14:34:21] <ratrace> jack2019: alternatively you can write
keyfile scripts that fetch the key remotely from another server
1155[14:35:13] *** Quits: D4rk2020 (~darkangel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1156[14:36:21] <ratrace> linuxmint: I'm not sure what that
directory represents, but it's not the ISO file. if you want
the DVD version, download the DVD-1 iso :
replaced-url
1160[14:37:09] <ratrace> linuxmint: then again I'm not
really sure what kind of software is there, but most likely
it's all the software for the default (gnome) desktop
installation and some basic/standard tools
1161[14:37:09] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bin weg.)
1165[14:37:54] <Reventlov> I'm searching for some package
that allows me to update some web service with my local ip (like
no-ip, dyndns, things like that), but already packaged in debian
buster
1166[14:38:51] <linuxmint> ratrace: thank you. I just need an
iso, but the website was only offering full image on dvd. I'm
used to iso, so unsure if dvd will work and I'm tight on my
monthly downloads.
1167[14:39:01] <ratrace> Reventlov: well there's dyndns
package
1169[14:39:39] <ratrace> linuxmint: it offers ..... the ISO
...... of the DVDs. there's also CDs, and the netinst.
they're "hybrid", thus will boot off of an USB stick
too
1172[14:40:29] <ratrace> linuxmint: frankly, you'll spend
MORE network bandwidth if you downloaded the DVD, than using netinst
for only the basic software you want. so I'm not sure what you
gain here
1175[14:46:23] <linuxmint> ratrace: thanks, but I have to as no
Internet on the other machine. I can scp files over, such as the
goal to install a Wi-Fi NIC on the other machine. Maybe I'll
use the net.iso. Just searching for a net.iso with checksum now.
1178[14:47:12] *** Quits: johny181 (uid482338@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
1179[14:47:13] <linuxmint> think I'll start a new habit of
using sha512 for checksum.
1180[14:47:21] <ratrace> linuxmint: how do you intend to use
....... scp...... if there's no network? or do you mean that
machine does have network, but LAN access only?
1181[14:47:38] *** Quits: uvolmer (~uvolmer@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1182[14:47:41] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1183[14:47:41] <ratrace> also note scp is being deprecated so
maybe form a habit with sftp or rsync
1184[14:47:51] <linuxmint> ratrace: yes, lan only.
1194[14:49:42] <ratrace> linuxmint: but if you have one machine
with public internet access, it can become the WAN/LAN gateway for
your other machines
1195[14:49:58] <linuxmint> hmmm, might work on rsync then. I hope
it has auto login for passwords.
1196[14:50:21] <linuxmint> ratrace: I'm not sure how?
1197[14:50:26] <ratrace> linuxmint: it's not much more to
type scp somefile remote:/somefile vs rsync somefile
remote:/somefile . and there's nice rsync options to use
1198[14:51:00] <linuxmint> yes, rsync's great, just thought
it wasn't secure. Can't remember if rsyn auto signs in to
passwords too.
1199[14:51:25] <ratrace> linuxmint: google for "set up
debian router". typically you can either bridge wlan and eth
(which requires wifi driver support) or you do plain ol' NAT
between networks
1200[14:51:27] <linuxmint> this is my whole conundrum...1st
machine to make as a gateway. I'm not sure how to.
1201[14:51:41] <linuxmint> ratrace: great, thank you so much
1215[14:54:05] <rudi_s> linuxmint: Because it's super useful
to copy files from host A to host B when you're on host C and
the SSH keys are only on host C.
1216[14:54:17] <rudi_s> ratrace: Doesn't help if host A
cannot access host B.
1217[14:54:22] <ratrace> well there's that, yea
1218[14:54:39] <rudi_s> "cannot access" can be "no
route, "no ssh key", etc.
1223[14:56:43] <linuxmint> rudi_s: interesting. I'm not that
advance though. If it's being deprecated, I'm make a new
habit of rsync. Always liked rsync for checking if duplicates are
already transferred.
1226[14:58:58] <linuxmint> rudi_s: so, really the only scp
advantage is to avoid typing in a few passwords, if I understood the
a, b, c example.
1227[14:59:13] <ratrace> it probably won't go away without
advaned notice of at least months if not years, and a lot of
mailinglist bikeshedding over that breaking someone's
super-edge use case that they need once every few years :))
1235[15:02:43] <rudi_s> linuxmint: Yeah, rsync is a good habit. -
Well in my case the replacement is rsync A:file . ; rsync file B: ;
which is a lot more to type than just scp -3 A:file B:file
1274[15:32:57] <rudi_s> daysun: Took me while to find it:
systemctl cat apt-daily-upgrade.timer says: OnCalendar=*-*-* 6:00 -
so every day
1275[15:33:26] <daysun> I'm going through unit files without
knowing much about systemd so hard for me to find out myself :P
1276[15:33:29] <daysun> thanks rudi_s!
1277[15:33:44] <daysun> so once a day it seems.
1278[15:34:15] <daysun> is it stupid to force a reboot after
that?
1279[15:34:33] <daysun> that's a way easier way for me to
make sure all services that I've made myself are restarted
1280[15:34:47] <daysun> and such.. or something.
1281[15:35:02] <daysun> is it ugly in general or beneficial?
1282[15:35:07] <rudi_s> daysun: np, most updates don't
require a reboot, so forcing a reboot is often not necessary. But if
you can live with the reboot it's the easiest way to make sure
everything is restarted.
1283[15:35:31] <rudi_s> Not sure if you can configure this with
unattended-upgrades though.
1284[15:35:48] <daysun> I'll just add another timer of some
sort that does it :p
1285[15:36:17] <ratrace> daysun: I'd rather recommend you
used something like apticron to get notifications of updates, so you
can run tests, restart services and reboot when needed
1286[15:36:37] <ratrace> unattended-upgrades sounds cool on
paper, but it half-asses in practice
1287[15:36:41] <rudi_s> daysun: The problem is only acting when
an update was executed.
1288[15:36:59] <rudi_s> ratrace: Well, that only scales to a few
machines. Once you have more you need some kind of automated setup.
1289[15:37:28] <ratrace> rudi_s: yes. not this way tho
1290[15:37:42] <daysun> in my case, I'm just a consultant
not paid to check on the machine every day. So I rather have it
update itself until it stops working. That, or getting paid.
1291[15:38:00] <ratrace> we have dozens of servers, but only a
few classes thereof. we take apt notifications only from one server
per class, and use ansible to upgrade all of them after tests and
post-upgrade decisions are made
1292[15:38:20] <rudi_s> ratrace: Personally I don't use
unattended-upgrades but I also have this automated. If the systems
are not critical then automatic updates are fine IMO.
1294[15:39:14] <ratrace> services won't restart on library
upgrades. systems won't reboot, and usually you need some kind
of orchestration for reboot, eg. via failovers for critical services
1295[15:39:48] <ratrace> so you still have to do what you'd
have to do if you only had notifications. but then the systems
won't change automagically without oversight.
1296[15:40:35] <rudi_s> ratrace: I get your point. Still, if I
have the choice of a few (not critically important) servers to
either gets updates via unattended updates or not, the choice is
simple.
1297[15:40:50] <rudi_s> Especially when maintaining them
isn't your main job.
1298[15:41:29] <ratrace> sure. just be aware it does not do the
upgrades completely in some cases.
1299[15:41:34] *** Quits: kakaka (~koniu@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1300[15:41:39] <rudi_s> (And there are few tools to check for
services to restart after library updates, but they all seem to
suck.)
1315[15:54:42] <epitamizor> is there a way to stop the tty's
from popping up text messages? I'm getting link down/up text
while editing files and i cant see anymore
1344[16:21:21] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For
example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian
version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I
expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if
anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all
volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get
an answer try a few hours later or on
replaced-url
1345[16:21:31] <Vatum> mandatory registration, is annoying
1384[17:11:43] <petn-randall> Hi, I'm looking for a tool to
do remote desktop support, similar to "Teamviewer".
Basically the user should be able to click something on their
desktop for me to able to view their screen and control
keyboard/mouse, until either of us removes the remote control.
1385[17:12:07] *** Quits: endstille (~endstille@replaced-ip) (Quit: I'll be back.)
1386[17:12:34] <towo`> petn-randall, anydesk?
1387[17:13:45] <petn-randall> towo`: Any FOSS alternatives?
1388[17:14:02] <Mister00X> petn-randall: x2go?
1389[17:14:05] <towo`> not that i know off
1390[17:14:09] <n4dir> i guess vnc doesn't do it? i seem to
recall. I tried NoMachine quite a few years ago. Not much needs, but
to me it looked ok
1397[17:16:10] <petn-randall> I'm just trying to come up
with a way to give some less technical people remote Linux support
without much hassle on their end.
1398[17:16:20] <towo`> n4dir, sure, siduction is allive
1399[17:16:28] <n4dir> towo`: ok, nice, thanks.
1400[17:17:03] <towo`> petn-randall, i'm using anydesk
often, it's not foss but works great
1401[17:17:42] <n4dir> ha ha. I completely misunderstood
"patience" when i searched for siduction the other day.
1549[19:29:31] <csgeek> hello, I'm looking for some helpful
documentation that can help me create a simple package. I basically
just need to copy a few files to a specific destination and define
dependencies. Any suggested documentation or tooling ?
1550[19:29:48] <csgeek> source code is in git if that's a
factor.
1581[19:40:49] <greycat> Which makes me think you are NOT
installing a Debian package, nor a package built FOR Debian. You are
probably installing a Ubuntu package, or one built for Ubuntu. Or
some other non-Debian system.
1600[19:53:33] <BillyZane> how do i make it so i just use 1
package from testing?
1601[19:53:43] <greycat> you use a backport
1602[19:53:52] <greycat> either one that's built by someone
else, or one built by you
1603[19:54:11] <n4dir> !ssd
1604[19:54:11] <dpkg> Solid-State Drives are basically
nonvolatile RAM chips used for long term storage. There are at least
3 types: SATA (no problem), NVMe (no problem since Linux 3.3), and
eMMC (not yet supported). See also <ssd limit>
1605[19:54:18] <n4dir> !ssb
1606[19:54:18] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on
<debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for
sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable
debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install
build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source
packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation
options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid
see <uupdate>.
1607[19:54:40] <BillyZane> greycat, i see. i'll look in to
that
1608[19:54:43] <edlou> Does debian ship images with X running as
root?
1609[19:54:43] <BillyZane> greycat, thank you
1610[19:54:54] <edlou> im asking because someone is telling me
they do, and i thought it was a security flaw.
1643[20:11:40] <cakeme> greycat, I believe it was you that
pointed me to the non-free image on the website. this helped me a
ton with a machine I was troubled with!!
1644[20:11:47] <jhutchins> greycat: I see two entries, one for
root and one for me.
1645[20:11:57] <jhutchins> Stretch
1646[20:12:09] <greycat> is that with a display manager running
one of them and you running the other after logging in?
1662[20:22:04] *** Joins: Primer (~daniel@replaced-ip)
1663[20:22:36] <edlou> ratrace: greycat this is the person i was
discussing it with -> Primer , since im a noob, i can't
elaborate on what or why but maybe you guys can explain better as to
why the action => result is happening for him
1664[20:22:38] <Primer> Hi, so my X runs as root, and I did
nothing to make this happen. Can someone please tell me why my X is
running as root, despite not having done anything explicitly to make
this happen?
1674[20:24:54] <greycat> I don't know display managers very
well but it's possible that lightdm, being "light",
doesn't do all of the fancy things that one would expect, like
running the X server as the new user.
1675[20:25:11] <edlou> so lightdm , wrapper will run as root but
, startx will launch as user, simple or a lot more to it?
1676[20:25:27] <greycat> I don't know all of the possible
combinations.
1681[20:26:11] <edlou> then i can even test that nvidia mumbo
jumbo again
1682[20:26:12] <Mister00X> Primer: sddm doesnt seem to support
rootless xorg
1683[20:26:44] <Primer> edlou: Ok, what you wrote earlier is now
starting to make a lot more sense
1684[20:26:49] <Mister00X> according to #871309
1685[20:27:24] <greycat> judd still doesn't love us
1686[20:27:27] <edlou> Primer: as long as you dont think im crazy
man haha, im still confused by 99% of what i learn because its too
many layers deep for me to understand
1687[20:27:51] <Primer> Mister00X greycat: edlou and I were
having a heated discussion about this in #nvidia, and it seems that
the disconnect is he uses startx and is able to run X as a user,
whereas I just let Debian use a DM and I get into X from there, and
it runs as root because of this.
1688[20:28:08] <Primer> edlou: naw, all good. I'm glad you
stuck with your guns. I learned something new. Thanks! :)
1692[20:28:54] <Primer> I have no qualms with switching my DM,
for the sake of security. I mean, hell. TIL my X was running as
root, and it didn't need to be!
1693[20:28:57] <n4dir> edlou: my solution was and is to remove as
many layers as possible. One of them is the display-manager
1694[20:29:03] <edlou> Primer: you were right too, because you
werent doing something explicit to run it as root so now i know what
you meant
1695[20:29:12] <edlou> i _assumed_ everything would have launched
Xorg as user
1711[20:32:31] <jadax> I'm debugging custom FPGA driver, is
there a way to trace all calls made to PCIe bus?
1712[20:32:35] *** Quits: gonzo (~gonzo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1713[20:32:45] <jadax> I'm talking about mem writes but also
IO
1714[20:33:19] <edlou> Mister00X: if i made the switch to wayland
would i have all the same functionality or big missing parts? im
going to read wayland vs X tonight, im still a major noob, i just
need something stable that works
1715[20:33:31] <Mister00X> Primer: And as you can see #871309 was
set with severety wishlist
1716[20:33:34] <Primer> Mister00X: Well, given the history where
X has run as root this long, I guess it's something that's
been with us for a long time and is not something that can be
changed overnight
1717[20:33:44] <jadax> I guess I would need to hook up gdb?
1718[20:33:45] <Mister00X> edlou: for me wayland is not ripe
enough
1719[20:33:57] <Primer> Mister00X: I see it now that you've
pointed it out.
1724[20:34:38] <Primer> I don't get that impression
1725[20:34:45] <Mister00X> edlou: that depends on the wayland
support of DEs and programs too
1726[20:34:58] <greycat> jadax: this channel is mostly just a
bunch of end users supporting each other. You're allowed to ask
here assuming you're on Debian, but if you don't get an
answer, you might want to try a more technical channel, maybe
##kernel?
1727[20:35:11] <jadax> thanks greycat
1728[20:35:22] <jadax> I'm on debian, yes
1729[20:35:36] * Mister00X still has issues when scaling the screen in
kde
1736[20:36:10] <Primer> edlou: Given what I've learned
today, I'm going to switch to gdm3 to make my X run as my user.
Perhaps at that point I'd be able to replicate your issue
1737[20:36:13] <Mister00X> greycat: on sid it does
1755[20:39:46] <Primer> they're rather sensitive to the
naming
1756[20:39:54] <Mister00X> Primer: Kool desktop environment
1757[20:39:57] <edlou> i remember the biggest fear of installing
linux was the initial login terminal and "heres your linux
machine" thinking, wait where is everything :( lol
1758[20:40:13] <edlou> KDE was like, here ya go little buddy!
click away!!!
1759[20:40:25] <cakeme> I installed it and was like wow, so this
is like a bad version of windows (note this was years ago)
1760[20:40:27] <mutante> typing startx and hoping your random
editing of xf86config somehow made it work this time
1761[20:40:56] <cakeme> I say that as I use XFCE :D - I have no
room to talk.
1762[20:41:26] <Mister00X> dpkg: start a DE war
1763[20:41:27] <dpkg> Xfce bites!
1764[20:42:14] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1765[20:42:16] <cakeme> apologies - never my intention all in
good linux love
1806[21:24:01] <Mister00X> hm interesting so ftp has no
"real" successor
1807[21:24:38] <Mister00X> but a set of successors
1808[21:25:00] <Mister00X> TIL
1809[21:25:27] <jhutchins> jelly: There is ftp over tls,
I'mm not sure if that's what the sftp implementation is.
People use sftp to referr to both a specific protocol and any secure
file transfer.
1812[21:25:51] <sney> ftp is an artifact of a simpler, more
trusting internet. it makes sense that it wouldn't have a
drop-in replacement, because the environment changed too
1813[21:26:21] <CommunistWolf> ftp is fine
1814[21:26:26] <sney> jhutchins: ftp over tls and sftp are not
the same, despite naming similarities.
1815[21:26:41] <Mister00X> A more trusting internet sounds nice
1816[21:26:48] <zutat> CommunistWolf: mitm
1817[21:26:51] <sney> the 90s were a magical time
1818[21:27:11] *** Quits: Freneticks (~Frenetick@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1819[21:27:12] <CommunistWolf> zutat: I was talking about the
encrypted version
1820[21:27:24] <EdePopede> sftp and ftps, i never could tell them
apart. but i'm afraid everything will be https or google's
Q-whatever with tons of JS.
1821[21:27:31] <CommunistWolf> it's just no fun to get into
the misunderstandings around sftp, as we see
1822[21:27:40] <CommunistWolf> personally, I've stopped
using http as much as possible
1823[21:27:51] <CommunistWolf> gemini covers some of its uses,
the rest can just... fade away
1836[21:30:53] <robobox> also I use SeaMonkey and Fx ESR so :P
1837[21:30:58] <EdePopede> see what youtube is now. or how even
google had to come up with amp. after poisoning everything with
loads of js frameworks.
1838[21:31:02] <jhutchins> sney: That had been my impression, but
I wasn't sure. People I dealt with at work were inconsistent in
their terminology.
1839[21:31:48] <robobox> youtube should just use the native html5
video element that every browser has had for 10 years
1840[21:32:14] <robobox> don't even care about static image
ad banners
1841[21:32:17] <sney> jhutchins: yeah, it's a common error
to conflate them. in here particularly. I remember one user fighting
for hours to set up vsftpd and then it turned out that they actually
wanted to use sftp.
1842[21:32:43] <robobox> or text ads, just make sure its a
"sponsored by
1843[21:32:45] <jhutchins> The last problem I worked on was
transfer to a mainframe. The mainframe was a different team than I
was working with (the time I was working with got the file after the
mainframe reformatted it.)
1844[21:32:52] <robobox> thing and not ad networks
1845[21:33:11] <jhutchins> Everybody who set this particular
process up and knew how it worked had retired.
1967[22:39:49] <oxek> which simple image editor do you use (and
is available in debian repos)? Only need rotate, resize, crop,
brighten, JPG & PNG support, and adding a black bar over some
area (like text on a photo of a document).
1968[22:40:06] <robobox> gnome paint/gpaint?
1969[22:41:14] <oxek> robobox: gpaint is about to be removed from
debian
1971[22:41:35] <oxek> it will likely not be in bullseye
1972[22:42:13] <robobox> oh that's sad
1973[22:43:10] <robobox> the gimp is far eaisier to use now in
2.8/2.10 so you could use that? stuff you do should be easy
1974[22:43:48] <oxek> gimp is far too complex. I can use it, but
I can't recommend it for someone who only needs those simple
features I listed.
1975[22:44:53] *** Joins: kini (~kini@replaced-ip)
1976[22:45:24] <robobox> krita, perhaps? or you could try running
microsoft paint in wine (fairly simple program, so any version of it
should work)
1977[22:45:27] <EdePopede> sounds like image magick or that other
one
1978[22:46:16] <robobox> kde and gnome have WAY too many programs
in their bundle anyway
1979[22:46:37] <robobox> like the web browsers, what's the
point if i'm using firefox/chromium anyways
1980[22:46:40] <oxek> krita looks like something to create
pictures, whereas I only need simple editing of existing pictures
(photos) like documents
1981[22:46:57] <robobox> yeah my knowlege is limited :P
1982[22:47:09] <oxek> oh wow, krita is massive
1983[22:48:00] <robobox> maybe i'll write to microsoft to
release paint's source under MIT lisense and port it to Qt/GTK
1984[22:48:41] <oxek> I can't really see using MSpaint in
wine as 'the debian way of doing things'. Plus paint
doesn't have ability to increase image brightness.
1985[22:48:50] <oxek> (last I checked, it was a while ago though)
2009[22:54:53] <n4dir> oxek: flameshot was what he found as a
replacement for his needs (thanks to bash history completion ...)
2010[22:55:17] <oxek> I really need something simple. A typical
workflow is that someone sends me a photo of a document, I need to
rotate it, crop it to show only the document and not the desk it is
on, brighten the image because it is too dark, and apply black bar
over some text in that document, export as JPG and email it
somewhere or print it
2011[22:55:53] <n4dir> then perhaps fotoxx as described in
ubuntuusers.de/wiki
2012[22:56:10] <oxek> I'm slowly going through that list,
thanks
2013[22:56:27] <n4dir> k, enough of a subject i have no clue.
good luck !
2030[23:11:38] *** Parts: Primer (~daniel@replaced-ip) ("Leaving")
2031[23:12:22] <mutante> oxek: sorry, this is not really Linux,
but when i read your description of what you want, this came to mind
right away:
replaced-url
2032[23:13:06] <mutante> used that a lot because.. runs on the
camera and don't want a separate flatbed scanner if not needed
2035[23:17:51] <oxek> mutante: I think I used something like that
on my phone at some point. Haven't really used my phone at all
for a whole year now though because lockdown...
2047[23:23:16] <GenTooMan> greets how can I find the status of a
package, for example if a package has a new version and it's in
testing, I would like to know why it's in testing and what
might be blocking it from migrating to back-ports.
2050[23:24:17] <ctcx> Aside the risk of losing files and general
data corruption, am I in danger if I suffered a power outage on my
command line Debian rig, while logged as root?
2051[23:24:39] <greycat> Oh, you don't mean the status of
YOUR system, you mean metadata about Debian itself. You can get that
from
replaced-url
2052[23:25:14] <ctcx> I was just checking some files only
readable for root, then power outage...
2053[23:26:21] <greycat> just being logged into a shell
doesn't do anything harmful
2054[23:27:07] <greycat> opening a file for reading (e.g. less
/something) doesn't hurt either -- the worst you can do is
corrupt your $HOME/.lesshst which you can always just delete.
2055[23:27:34] <ctcx> Even as root user?
2056[23:27:37] <greycat> now, if it's opened for *writing*,
that's a different story
2057[23:27:46] <greycat> doesn't matter what user you are
2058[23:27:55] <ctcx> ....ok
2059[23:28:07] <ctcx> But no, I was not actually even working on
any file.
2060[23:28:15] <greycat> try to avoid crashing while you have
files opened and partially edited in a text editor
2064[23:29:43] <oxek> and of course try to get a UPS, run on a
proper filesystem like ZFS/btrfs, use good hardware, use ECC RAM,
have backups, ...
2065[23:30:09] <ctcx> In another thing, is the command dmidecode
totally safe for using? I already read it just displays info from
BIOS, but I have always been a bit uneasy regarding sudo-only
commands...