• 0[00:00:35] <KNERD> okay, let me look that CLI up
• 1[00:00:37] *** Joins: dead (~dead@replaced-ip)
• 2[00:00:37] <KNERD> thanks
• 3[00:00:54] <KNERD> This one, I assume? replaced-url
• 4[00:00:55] <ratrace> KNERD: replaced-url
• 5[00:00:57] <ratrace> ya
• 6[00:01:02] <dead> I have disabled apparmor to test a printing issue but I'm still seeing lines saying audit DENIED on printing...and it doesn't reference apparmor?
• 7[00:01:10] <dead> so what else could be doing this? I don't seem to have selinux either
• 8[00:01:21] <ratrace> dead: pastebin the actual line please
• 9[00:02:21] <dead> replaced-url
• 10[00:02:37] <dead> thsi is with apparmor.service not running
• 11[00:02:56] <ratrace> dead: it's apparmor alright. why do you think it doesn't reference apparmor? appamor="DENIED"
• 12[00:03:14] <dead> ok then how would i diable apparmor?
• 13[00:03:17] <dead> disable*
• 14[00:03:42] <ratrace> dead: you can set the profile in complain mode, aa-complain /etc/apparmor.d/usr.bin.cupsd I believe, not sure check teh actual filename in apparmor.d
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• 16[00:04:18] <ratrace> dead: then the next thing to do is file a bug report on cupsd apparmor profile. now .... cupds AA profile isn't installed by default, so consider if you really want it in this state, or are willing to fix it yourself for yourself
• 17[00:04:25] <dead> hmm i dont even have the aa-complain command
• 18[00:04:31] <dead> i have aa-exec/aa-enabled etc..
• 19[00:04:41] *** Quits: w-oertl (~wolfgang@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 20[00:04:56] <ratrace> install apparmor-utils package
• 21[00:05:04] <ratrace> dead: how is this even possible .... this is not default on debian.
• 22[00:05:32] <dead> probably an old profile i setup on a previous version or something
• 23[00:05:58] <ratrace> dead: oh wait..... cups-daemon itself installs the AA profile
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• 25[00:06:18] <ratrace> right, right, packages do that themselves now, it's not just apparmor-profiles any more
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• 27[00:08:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1065
• 28[00:08:02] <ratrace> dead: best thing would be to file a bug report against cups-daemon package, state that the default AA profile is missing read rights on /etc/magic
• 29[00:08:07] <dead> well that seemed to have remove the audit lines now but still failing to print damn it lol :/
• 30[00:08:20] <dead> ok thank you
• 31[00:08:30] <ratrace> meanwhile you can set the profile in complain mode, or outright disable it with aa-disable /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.cupsd
• 32[00:08:41] <ratrace> disabling might be better as that won't produce a megaton of log entries
• 33[00:08:50] <dead> good to know, i'm used to selinux not this new apparmor shit..
• 34[00:09:03] <ratrace> dead: same shit, different paradigm :)
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• 37[00:09:23] <dead> cool well thanks for the help, have a good one!
• 38[00:09:27] *** Parts: dead (~dead@replaced-ip) ()
• 39[00:09:29] <ratrace> !next
• 40[00:09:30] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
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• 47[00:17:08] <EdePopede> is it possible to check root's history file while not logged in? i was thinking of a 2nd PID 0 account. but hm, maybe i just could set another HISTFILE in the start script so the original one doesn't get touched.
• 48[00:18:00] <EdePopede> s/PID/UID/
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• 50[00:20:20] <phogg> EdePopede: shell history? just read ~root/.bash_history (if you have permission)
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• 52[00:21:03] <EdePopede> phogg: that's the point. i have to be logged in as root, but i want to check how it looks after i've been logged out.
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• 54[00:22:16] <phogg> EdePopede: how it would look? like, before you log out?
• 55[00:22:21] <EdePopede> right now on the freshly started live system it is still empty, the running shell holds the commands i used to prepare my environment. and i'm not sure if it would be a good idea to write it now or better wait until logoff.
• 56[00:22:36] <EdePopede> no, after.
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• 59[00:23:13] <EdePopede> i check everything, file and process copy look both fine, when i login again it is messed. doubled entries, which should not be there.
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• 62[00:23:40] <EdePopede> and i just have to know when this happens.
• 63[00:23:43] <phogg> EdePopede: so, like I said, just read that file
• 64[00:23:57] <EdePopede> readable only by root
• 65[00:24:09] <oxek> EdePopede: `sudo cat /root/.bash_history`
• 66[00:24:10] <phogg> you can change that if you want, especially if it's temporary
• 67[00:24:16] <EdePopede> works for every other account with root, but not with root :)
• 68[00:24:20] <phogg> you can also log in with a different shell that doesn't read or write it
• 69[00:24:21] <EdePopede> err *for* root
• 70[00:24:39] <phogg> oxek: ~root is technically more correct
• 71[00:24:50] <EdePopede> hm i could use zsh or whatever i have here, good idea
• 72[00:24:57] <oxek> phogg: true, but does every shell work that way?
• 73[00:25:06] <phogg> oxek: POSIX standard
• 74[00:25:15] <oxek> so probably fish doesn't :)
• 75[00:25:23] <phogg> who uses fish?
• 76[00:25:33] <oxek> japanese?
• 77[00:25:41] <cws> fish is a fairly popular shell.
• 78[00:26:54] <oxek> anyone know the popularity rating of interactive shells? Maybe bash 1st, zsh 2nd, fish 3rd?
• 79[00:27:11] <phogg> Best is sobjective.
• 80[00:27:23] <phogg> popularity isn't a great measure of it
• 81[00:27:39] <oxek> that's why I didn't mention the word 'best'
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• 83[00:27:52] <cws> oxek: those three, in some sort of order.
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• 85[00:28:16] <oxek> cws: that's what I would have guessed, but I don't know much about it
• 86[00:28:19] <phogg> oxek: Oh, okay. Bash is definitely first, though. I think zsh may be second, after that it's hard to know.
• 87[00:28:33] <phogg> ksh will be in there somewhere, fish might even approach 1%
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• 90[00:28:50] <phogg> But I'm betting more people still use tcsh
• 91[00:29:18] <phogg> oxek: you could try the Debian popcon for the relevant packages
• 92[00:29:24] <oxek> I was just gonna say popcon
• 93[00:29:24] <phogg> it's not a good metric, but it is *a* metric
• 94[00:29:49] <phogg> unlike the next best alternative, which is gut instinct, it has to be worth something
• 95[00:30:00] <phogg> Does Ubuntu run a popcon?
• 96[00:30:01] <cws> phogg: popcon won't be a good metric, bash is preinstalled.
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• 98[00:30:28] <phogg> cws: even so I think that's going to still give it a fair assessment of popularity
• 99[00:30:42] <EdePopede> "my precious 100k+ line history" ... 100k lines of bash history? i reset it often when it reaches some hundred lines :o
• 100[00:30:48] <cws> That literally means that it can't give a fair assessment of popularity.
• 101[00:30:55] <oxek> cws: I think it's safe to assume bash is most popular because it's default. popcon says tcsh is more popular than fish
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• 103[00:31:19] <coc0nut> fish is a fairly popular shell <- hillarious line! :)
• 104[00:31:21] <phogg> EdePopede: I keep 10k lines just so that I never have to worry about anything I can remember having aged out. Entries at the top are years old!
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• 106[00:31:32] <phogg> oxek: I definitely believe that
• 107[00:31:34] <cws> coc0nut: It's a factual statement.
• 108[00:31:57] <phogg> fish has gained some recent notoriety, but being hip is not the same as being popular
• 109[00:32:52] <cws> Alright, this is getting tired. I'm not here to microscopically subdivide hairs. fish is a moderately popular shell and is one of the top three in terms of "popularity" along with zsh and bash.
• 110[00:32:57] <EdePopede> phogg: how do you even use it? i hate this single line interface while scrolling through it, even in mc i often open the history box if the command i want doesn't appear during the first few iterations.
• 111[00:33:04] <cws> End. I'm moving on.
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• 113[00:34:11] <coc0nut> does fish include bash and zsh and so on?
• 114[00:34:45] <oxek> coc0nut: that question does not make sense to me
• 115[00:34:49] <phogg> EdePopede: C-r and type
• 116[00:35:08] <oxek> with FZF for fulltext search in history
• 117[00:35:31] *** Quits: stree (~stree@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 118[00:35:36] <EdePopede> phogg, that's what i do. but with a few hundred lines it's no fun anymore. and C-s to return when i was too fast again also doesn't work.
• 119[00:35:42] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 120[00:36:07] <oxek> EdePopede: really check out FZF, it makes C-r so much better
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• 122[00:36:43] <phogg> EdePopede: that's because C-s is bound to something at the terminal level
• 123[00:37:04] <oxek> C-s C-q are flow control in readline
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• 125[00:37:26] <phogg> EdePopede: stty -ixon; then C-s will do what you want. Or rebind forward search
• 126[00:37:32] <EdePopede> i know, but this doesn't make it work ;)
• 127[00:37:43] <EdePopede> ah i should do it
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• 130[00:39:09] <oxek> or use zsh, which doesn't use readline and you can disable flow control (C-s C-q) in the zshrc file
• 131[00:39:25] <phogg> EdePopede: for things very old I mostly just history | grep -E ...
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• 134[00:42:09] <alex11> what a fishy conversation
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• 138[00:44:09] <ratrace> alex11: badum-tss!
• 139[00:44:34] <unborn> ,v flameshot
• 140[00:44:35] *** Quits: xgfvc (~xgfvc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 141[00:44:35] <judd> Package: flameshot on amd64 -- stretch-backports: 0.6.0-11~bpo9+1; buster: 0.6.0-11; buster-backports: 0.8.5-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 0.9.0+ds1-1; sid: 0.9.0+ds1-1
• 142[00:47:51] *** JakeSays_ is now known as JakeSays
• 143[00:48:18] <oxek> +1 for flameshot
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• 167[01:10:52] <alex11> are there quick and easy ways to check whether my /home permissions are mostly correct
• 168[01:11:40] <alex11> i had a snafu a while ago but i think i managed to set my directories to 755 and files to 644 (or is it the other way around, i forget what it's supposed to be) and i just wonder if i can check for exceptions
• 169[01:11:59] <alex11> yeah dirs 755 files 644 pretty sure
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• 173[01:16:52] <alex11> i guess i can do a big ol' recursive search and just skim
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• 177[01:18:59] <alex11> ignore me
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• 229[02:08:37] <maxrazer> Anyone know why the Mullvad VPN .deb package would install fine but running it is just a command line tool and no GUI seems to be found or run?
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• 232[02:11:20] <abrotman> does it maybe also have a GUI binary, or package?
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• 239[02:14:48] <somiaj> maxrazer: this appears to be a third party .deb? If so you might want to ask the creaters of the .deb. Besides abrotman suggestion of seeing if they have a seperate gui package, dpkg -S packagename (if it is installed) will list all the files it installed, maybe they put useful info in /usr/share/doc/packagename
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• 242[02:17:58] <maxrazer> I may have to contact their support. I've run the application many times in the past without this behavior. I'm now only using i3wm so, I'm not sure if that has something to do with it.
• 243[02:18:07] <maxrazer> I don't see any process with htop though.
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• 255[02:26:46] <abrotman> maxrazer: did you `dpkg -L <pkgname>` to look for binaries?
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• 258[02:28:23] <maxrazer> Yes, and I see /usr/bin/mullvad and a few others
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• 267[02:35:28] <somiaj> oh wait, yea -L and not -S...my dpkg foo is rusty.
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• 381[05:01:22] <alexrelis[m]> What would be the best way to install System76's power management, firmware tool, and driver on Debian without using the PPA and ending up with a Frankendebian?
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• 385[05:05:15] <somiaj> The biggest issue is depends, so although we usually just say "don't use a PPA", this is because in general they will need dependencies that are not in debian
• 386[05:05:56] <somiaj> If you are willing to do the research, provided debian can meet all the depends, you might be able to install the .deb just fine (though it may not be tested so could have unforseen issues, but as a single .deb you can install/remove often no big deal)
• 387[05:06:21] <somiaj> replaced-url
• 388[05:06:33] <somiaj> I have ono clude what Systems76's depends are going to be
• 389[05:07:21] <somiaj> though even that link has drawbacks, this is assuming the package can be built using debian libs, which isn't always the case for some more complicated apps
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• 447[06:32:33] <alexrelis[m]> What's a good backup utility that allows me to make an encrypted image of my entire computer (not just home directory) to transfer to my server via SFTP?
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• 455[06:35:55] <maxrazer> Maybe rsync with cron for adding encryption. I haven't done it, but a quick search found that.
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• 517[07:52:53] <TheBigK02> jhutchins: the "old" is Linux server1 4.19.0-14-amd64 and the new is Linux server1 4.19.0-16-amd64
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• 598[09:34:27] <lemur> grub-theme-breeze fails to install (upgrade) on a zfs-on-root system: replaced-url
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• 605[09:46:21] <jmd> I'm using the gcc-mingw-w64-x86-64 cross compiler from buster to create Windows binaries. 64 bit binaries are fine. However I expected to be able to pass -m32 to build 32 bit binaries. The compiler runs fine, but fails to link. It seems that it cannot find the proper crt libraries for 32 bits. Is there something else I have to do?
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• 613[09:51:41] <themill> do you need gcc-mingw-w64-i686?
• 614[09:54:11] <ratrace> lemur: that's /boot on ZFS too?
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• 616[09:57:04] <lemur> ratrace: /dev/nvme0n1p3 on /boot/grub type vfat , so no.
• 617[09:57:59] <jmd> themill: Do I ?
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• 619[09:58:39] <themill> jmd: you know more about cross-compiling for windows than me; based on the package description, I'd say yes.
• 620[09:58:52] <lemur> Seems to be related to this one: replaced-url
• 621[09:59:20] <jmd> ok. I will try it.
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• 623[10:00:26] <jmd> (However the description for gcc-mingw-w64-x86-64 clearly says "environment for 32- and 64-bit".
• 624[10:00:34] <jmd> )
• 625[10:00:38] <themill> yeah, I saw that too
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• 627[10:01:09] <ratrace> lemur: I thikn that vfat is an issue. why do you have /boot on fat?
• 628[10:01:37] <themill> lemur: is this Debian? I don't think grub-theme-breeze in Debian has any files in /boot
• 629[10:02:30] <lemur> themill: it's kde-neon, which as far as I understand sources all kde-related files directly from debian experimental (?)
• 630[10:02:38] <themill> nope
• 631[10:03:51] <ratrace> !based on debian
• 632[10:03:51] <dpkg> Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare replaced-url
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• 635[10:05:27] <lemur> ratrace: The config is based on the root on zfs manual on openzfs
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• 637[10:05:37] <lemur> themill: ok, thanks. understood.
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• 641[10:07:04] <ratrace> lemur: I don't know about that, but I don't think /boot can be on vfat. /boot is not ESP
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• 647[10:09:12] <ratrace> lemur: btw, there's #zfsonlinux here on freenode too
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• 654[10:12:06] <lemur> ratrace: thanks!
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• 680[10:42:08] <avernos> I have a problem with the ppp interface, I get constant timeouts and the driver hangsup automatically without running the disconnect scripts. I need to run the disconnect scripts, or disable the timeouts/ automatic hangup or else i cannot recover it aftewards, can someone help?
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• 704[11:10:05] <shtrb> avernos, is that Sonicwall by any chance ? I had oddities with it's ppp interface and reducing the MTU to 500 solved missterious corruptions (was failing to do ssh)
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• 708[11:13:16] <avernos> shtrb, not sonicwall, but did some search and found several people with similar issues but not much details about this. My oddities happen mostly with the loss of coverage.. After that got oddities even from the provider..
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• 713[11:17:38] <shtrb> avernos, maybe you could also change the timewait period to shorter (on the server side) , this way your login would not be in bad state for long period of time
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• 717[11:20:27] <avernos> the timewait how is different to maxfail ?
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• 721[11:22:20] <shtrb> On radius level , you have for how long a connection is considered to be active since last message arrived, default in many servers is 300 seconds (5 minutes) you can reduce this for the system to remove your login from the connected state
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• 724[11:24:24] <shtrb> Will bugfixes (documentation) may still find their way into Bullseye ?
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• 726[11:24:31] <avernos> tried to change that with several options, none worked, never used timewait.. might just be a big help
• 727[11:24:41] <avernos> ty
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• 743[11:40:18] <avernos> shtrb, timewait is a chatscripts or ppp.conf ?
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• 817[12:49:37] <b1ack0p> hi
• 818[12:49:56] <b1ack0p> someone else having issue with speedtest-cli?
• 819[12:50:11] <b1ack0p> it was working fine but recently it is giving error
• 820[12:50:25] <b1ack0p> replaced-url
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• 843[13:10:01] <jelly> ,v speedtest-cli
• 844[13:10:02] <judd> Package: speedtest-cli on amd64 -- jessie: 0.3.1-1; stretch: 1.0.0-1; buster: 2.0.2-1+deb10u1; bullseye: 2.1.2-2; sid: 2.1.2-2
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• 846[13:10:31] <jelly> b1ack0p, you might want to try backporting 2.1.2 if 2.0.2 is misbehaving
• 847[13:12:19] <jelly> or not, the newer version breaks for me on buster
• 848[13:12:44] <jelly> replaced-url
• 849[13:12:55] <jelly> so it's not just you
• 850[13:14:05] <ratrace> jelly: powerline?
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• 855[13:15:19] <jelly> ?
• 856[13:15:25] <jelly> what is powerline
• 857[13:15:29] <ratrace> ,i powerline
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• 859[13:15:42] <ratrace> bah... the "prompt and statusline utility" for ze shell
• 860[13:15:43] <judd> Package powerline (python, optional) in buster/amd64: prompt and statusline utility. Version: 2.7-2; Size: 50.4k; Installed: 276k; Homepage: replaced-url
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• 862[13:15:59] <jelly> no, speedtest-cli
• 863[13:16:03] *** Joins: odnes (~odnes@replaced-ip)
• 864[13:16:11] <jelly> connect(3, {sa_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(443), sin_addr=inet_addr("199.232.18.219")}, 16) = -1 EINPROGRESS (Operation now in progress)
• 865[13:16:11] <jelly> openat(AT_FDCWD, "/usr/lib/ssl/certs/5ad8a5d6.0", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 4
• 866[13:16:14] <ratrace> are you using that? I'm referring to the specific prompt in your paste
• 867[13:16:23] <jelly> nope, it's just a prompt
• 868[13:16:28] <ratrace> mkay
• 869[13:17:04] <jelly> PS1="[%T] %B%~%b %(#.#.=>) "
• 870[13:17:22] <ratrace> neat
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• 872[13:17:33] <jelly> and a RPS1 that makes things ugly when copy/pasting
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• 877[13:21:36] <jelly> b1ack0p, dunno what goes wrong there, app seems to get replaced-url
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• 928[14:23:56] <b1ack0p> jelly: sorry i disconnected
• 929[14:24:14] <b1ack0p> so is speedtest-cli will discontune or what?
• 930[14:24:23] <b1ack0p> s/is/will
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• 932[14:28:02] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: why you say that? is it stopped in github?
• 933[14:28:53] <b1ack0p> i was responding jelly..
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• 935[14:29:16] <b1ack0p> cybercrypto: i dont know but recently when i run speedtest on command line it gives error
• 936[14:29:25] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: sure.
• 937[14:30:35] <b1ack0p> can somebody test
• 938[14:30:40] <b1ack0p> speedtest?
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• 941[14:31:13] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: I dont know... but i guess the speedtest company (oakla i guess?) changed their side and potentially impacted in the 'speedtest-cli' which is not affilliatted to oakla.
• 942[14:31:43] <b1ack0p> so is there any alternative to test speed of my connection via commandline?
• 943[14:31:45] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: if thats true... speedtest-cli will need to be updated/adjusted or die :-)
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• 945[14:32:27] <b1ack0p> hmm
• 946[14:32:37] <b1ack0p> so what can i use instead of speedtest-cli?
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• 949[14:33:19] <tarzeau_> b1ack0p: i'm using this now:
• 950[14:33:28] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: the same company offers a commandline of their software. look into their website. if you only use free-sw, then you may want to measure your network with other tools for a while.
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• 952[14:33:42] <tarzeau_> b1ack0p: time ping -c1 1.1.1.1 | sed 1d |head -1 |sed 's,.*ttl=,ttl=,'
• 953[14:33:50] <tarzeau_> b1ack0p: with linkspeed=$((ifconfig |grep -v "^ " |grep -v ^$ |grep -v "^lo"|sed s,:.*,, |while read a; do echo -n "$a "; ethtool $a|grep -i speed; done |sed "s,.peed:,,") 2>/dev/null | awk '{print $2}')
• 954[14:34:13] <tarzeau_> b1ack0p: but it's obviously not measuring the speed, but showing link speed
• 955[14:34:14] <b1ack0p> tarzeau_: that s a lot of commands :/
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• 957[14:34:27] <tarzeau_> easier on macos ;)
• 958[14:34:40] <b1ack0p> are you on macos?
• 959[14:34:52] <tarzeau_> used to use speedtest='echo "`curl -sS -m3 -o/dev/null replaced-url
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• 961[14:35:07] <tarzeau_> my mba is my terminal, but i use a lot of debian and other linux
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• 964[14:35:31] <tarzeau_> and yes for dtp i prefer macos
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• 966[14:35:52] <tarzeau_> i'm aware of gimp, inkscape, and scribus
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• 970[14:36:34] <b1ack0p> isnt there any easier command to test speed?
• 971[14:37:25] <EdePopede> you could download a huge file and check how long it takes
• 972[14:37:26] <tarzeau_> b1ack0p: i'd be happy to take one if someone comes up with one
• 973[14:37:34] <tarzeau_> EdePopede: that's my latest alias ^ doing
• 974[14:37:41] <EdePopede> *nod* ;)
• 975[14:37:43] <sigint> tarzeau_, a big difference between your curl command and the speedtest-cli is that the later uses multiple connections in parallel
• 976[14:37:52] <b1ack0p> EdePopede: lol very practical suggestion :p
• 977[14:38:01] <EdePopede> wget has some nice stats during download
• 978[14:38:07] <tarzeau_> sigint: true, but how is multiple connections in parallel helping? for bonded 20/40gbit links?
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• 980[14:38:19] <tarzeau_> sigint: or 2.5/5gbit links?
• 981[14:39:08] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: speedtest-cli is opensource and is dependent of the 'speedtest' official client from oakla-company. It is not guaranteed that 'speedtest-cli' will always work, since it is depending on oakla-company APIs.
• 982[14:39:20] <sigint> tarzeau_, my router is quite weak (AMD 1 GHz) but multicore. So even a 1 Gbps connection is able to saturate a core, but multiple connections allow to spread the load on multiple cores
• 983[14:39:22] <EdePopede> b1ack0p, if you're not afraid to burh your fingers xD replaced-url
• 984[14:39:27] <b1ack0p> i got it but i am looking for alternative
• 985[14:39:41] <b1ack0p> is there any tool to monitor and test the connection for linux/debian?
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• 988[14:41:01] <hlias> a torrent with many seeds? :P
• 989[14:41:14] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: you can try other tools. if you google you will find a lot (try to start with iperf or any other... i guesss it is under bsd license)
• 990[14:41:29] <tarzeau_> sigint: i see
• 991[14:42:20] <b1ack0p> ..
• 992[14:42:39] <EdePopede> found netperf - also ioperf looks good here: replaced-url
• 993[14:43:10] <b1ack0p> ioperf or iperf?
• 994[14:43:31] *** Quits: stree (~stree@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 995[14:43:44] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: iperf
• 996[14:44:04] <b1ack0p> does it work similar to speedtest-cli?
• 997[14:44:27] <tarzeau_> what a pity netperf doesn't support being run with timeout 3
• 998[14:44:51] <tarzeau_> oh you can't just run it
• 999[14:45:38] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: it is better than... but does not works like 'speedtest-cli' - IF you want similar to that, go to the company oakla website and download their cli tool.
• 1000[14:46:20] <cybercrypto> EdePopede: I like iperf, which works greatly with sctp.
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• 1002[14:46:53] <b1ack0p> how can i use iperf?
• 1003[14:46:55] <EdePopede> nntp seems to be the root of some of them
• 1004[14:47:01] <b1ack0p> i checked --help but i dont get it
• 1005[14:47:01] <EdePopede> err
• 1006[14:47:36] <EdePopede> ttcp
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• 1008[14:49:13] *** Parts: polardroid (~polardroi@replaced-ip) ("--")
• 1009[14:49:23] <b1ack0p> nvm
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• 1011[14:49:32] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: try ntop and check if it fine for you. otherwise, you can check other tools and read about them.
• 1012[14:49:56] <ratrace> b1ack0p: start it in server mode on one machine, and in client mode (for server's IP and port) on the other
• 1013[14:50:15] <b1ack0p> ratrace: it is difficult for me..
• 1014[14:50:20] <ratrace> which part?
• 1015[14:50:27] <b1ack0p> server side ip port etc
• 1016[14:50:36] <b1ack0p> i was looking for a basic tool
• 1017[14:51:20] <ratrace> b1ack0p: what's difficult about it? pick a number. say, 12345. iperf3 -s -p 12345 on the server
• 1018[14:51:35] <b1ack0p> random number?
• 1019[14:51:44] <EdePopede> just stay above 1024 if you're not root
• 1020[14:51:50] <ratrace> iperf3 -c <servers_ip> -p 12345 on the client
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• 1022[14:52:07] <b1ack0p> how can i know the ip
• 1023[14:52:14] <b1ack0p> connection ip?
• 1024[14:52:15] <ratrace> b1ack0p: whatever port you want, above 1024 and below 65535. actually check that you don't try to use a port already in use
• 1025[14:52:32] <ratrace> b1ack0p: seriously?! why are you even running a server with zero knowledge?!
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• 1027[14:52:51] <b1ack0p> who said i am running a server??
• 1028[14:53:03] <ratrace> why are you trying iperf then? it's a server-client tool
• 1029[14:53:03] <b1ack0p> i am talking about internet speed which ISP provided
• 1030[14:53:09] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: nethogs / iptraf / iftop / ntop (long list of tools)
• 1031[14:53:10] <b1ack0p> dont know
• 1032[14:53:11] <ratrace> you need to run iperf on BOTH ends
• 1033[14:53:28] <b1ack0p> i asked about speedtest not server test
• 1034[14:53:41] <ratrace> b1ack0p: I read up as far as "how can I use iperf".
• 1035[14:53:56] <b1ack0p> sorry i thought it is a tool to test internet connection
• 1036[14:54:02] <ratrace> b1ack0p: open browser, go to ookla's speed test, run it
• 1037[14:54:21] *** Quits: platvoeten (~platvoete@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1038[14:54:31] <b1ack0p> i asked on commandline tool
• 1039[14:54:33] <ratrace> it would automatically pick your ISP, but if not, find a closest host. however ... keep in mind what you're actually measuring here
• 1040[14:54:38] <b1ack0p> nevermind thanks anyway
• 1041[14:54:54] <ratrace> b1ack0p: oh I see you were asking about speedest-cli before
• 1042[14:54:59] <ratrace> aaaand it's broken?
• 1043[14:55:00] <b1ack0p> yes ratrace !
• 1044[14:55:07] *** Quits: D4rk2020 (~darkangel@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 1045[14:55:09] <b1ack0p> yes it is broken
• 1046[14:55:27] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: I already said: go to the oakla-website and download their tool-cli. OR download a new tool, as I listed above.
• 1047[14:55:59] <b1ack0p> cybercrypto: i am on an old laptop, it takes 10mins to open a browser
• 1048[14:56:08] <b1ack0p> that s why i asked for a commandline tool
• 1049[14:56:12] <ratrace> b1ack0p: you can use hosting companies' "network test tools", they offer few various sized files for download from various datacenters. at least you can get that part of your answer
• 1050[14:56:17] <b1ack0p> i tried ntop but it says unable to locate package
• 1051[14:56:24] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: CLI = command line interface.
• 1052[14:56:41] <b1ack0p> cybercrypto: i cant go ookla website..
• 1053[14:56:43] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: Download speedtest CLI from oakla website.
• 1054[14:56:44] <ratrace> does ntop even run such tests
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• 1056[14:56:52] <b1ack0p> no idea
• 1057[14:57:03] <qman__> no, ntop does not run such tests, it just shows processes using the network
• 1058[14:57:06] <cybercrypto> b1ack0p: install CLI browser and download it (lynx will do the job)
• 1059[14:57:08] <ratrace> afaik it's just a "top", it doesn't have a remote side like iperf
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• 1061[14:57:26] <b1ack0p> okkkk i will check on another laptop
• 1062[14:57:27] <b1ack0p> nvm
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• 1064[14:58:33] <cybercrypto> ratrace: you are correct, it only shows measurements of current activities. It does not fires requests.
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• 1070[15:01:56] <tosted> is safe disable all ipv6 on debian?
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• 1072[15:02:31] <tarzeau_> if you have ipv4 working, i don't see why it should not, i think ReduceDebian wiki.debian entry even has something about it
• 1073[15:03:19] <jelly> !noipv6
• 1074[15:03:19] <dpkg> From Debian 6.0 "Squeeze" onwards, <IPv6> is built into the Linux kernel (excluding the loongson-2f flavour). To disable IPv6, add the kernel command line option ipv6.disable=1 to your bootloader.
• 1075[15:04:00] <tarzeau_> jelly: so this is not relevant anymore? replaced-url
• 1076[15:04:01] <jelly> it's unfortunate that there are situations where that helps
• 1077[15:04:18] *** Quits: s8548a_ (~s8548a@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 1078[15:05:08] <cws> tosted: What's the particular reason for disabling it?
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• 1080[15:05:19] <jelly> tarzeau_, I'm not sure what that page is about, but manually removing packaged files only makes sense for very special embedded purposes
• 1081[15:05:42] <tarzeau_> jelly: that is exactly what it's about
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• 1084[15:07:35] <jelly> tarzeau_, do we have any reason to believe tosted is asking to create a tiny embedded setup? If we don't then it's not relevant.
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• 1087[15:09:12] <jelly> tarzeau_, that part of said page does not seem to have been updated since multiarch. So, like, Debian 7
• 1088[15:09:32] <jelly> my iptables userspace-side modules are in /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/xtables/
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• 1091[15:11:14] <finalbeta> Hi, not sure if I can ask this here. I want to include the Zabbix repo in unattended upgrades config. I know how to do this by taking the Origin/Suite part from the repo file in /var/lib/apt/lists/. But the zabbix repo only has the Origin tag and not the Suite tag. Any pointers on what to look for please?
• 1092[15:11:53] *** Joins: pavelow (~pavelow@replaced-ip)
• 1093[15:12:14] <karlpinc> finalbeta: If you're using Debian it's the right place to ask.
• 1094[15:12:27] *** Joins: tosted (~tosted@replaced-ip)
• 1095[15:12:32] <finalbeta> That I am ;)
• 1096[15:15:55] <tosted> abrotman: tnks for your answer last day. net issues when tried to rejoin this channel!
• 1097[15:17:16] <tosted> cybercrypto: yes. not all people know how this works, but i was reconfing some packages. tks
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• 1101[15:19:11] <cybercrypto> tosted: Sure. :-) I dont recall the originals for that... but it is ok.
• 1102[15:20:23] <finalbeta> Ok, nevermind the unattended-upgrades question. I've done did some edit, we shall see. :D
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• 1105[15:25:14] <ratrace> she done already done had herses!
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• 1109[15:27:40] <abrotman> tosted: hopefully it worked out
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• 1111[15:29:08] <hegemoOn> is ntp belonging to default debian standard install
• 1112[15:29:25] <hegemoOn> or only timesyncd is default time service from systemd
• 1113[15:29:32] *** Joins: SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@replaced-ip)
• 1114[15:29:56] <ratrace> I think timesyncd is the default, yes. at least no ntpd with debootstrap'd installations
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• 1116[15:31:46] <avernos> I want to accelerate the update of systemd-timesync. I was thinking to start it After=network-online.target but current configuration has remount-fs and sysusers. I dont know these 2, could it conflict somehow?
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• 1118[15:32:13] <ratrace> hegemoOn: package ntp, Priority: optional
• 1119[15:32:38] <avernos> i guess remount-fs is for filesystem, but me thinks i dont need wait for filesystem?
• 1120[15:33:22] <hegemoOn> ratrace: glad
• 1121[15:33:29] <hegemoOn> thanks for the answer
• 1122[15:33:32] <hegemoOn> i win my point
• 1123[15:33:43] <hegemoOn> f***ing noob admin
• 1124[15:33:50] <ratrace> hegemoOn: ?
• 1125[15:34:03] <hegemoOn> ratrace: unix team is provisionning server with bmaas
• 1126[15:34:20] <hegemoOn> i ask them to remove ntp cause its interfering with timesyncd
• 1127[15:34:28] <hegemoOn> which is default time service on debian
• 1128[15:34:35] <ratrace> avernos: afaik that service does the RO->RW remounting on boot. methinks timesyncd might be wanting a writeable fs
• 1129[15:34:53] <hegemoOn> they told me to write an ansible workaround role to fix this
• 1130[15:35:03] <ratrace> hegemoOn: can't interfere, the timesyncd service has a condition which prevents it to run if ntpd is present
• 1131[15:35:12] <hegemoOn> i ask them to respect standard default install and not install complementary packages
• 1132[15:35:17] <hegemoOn> yes
• 1133[15:35:22] <ratrace> ConditionFileIsExecutable=!/usr/sbin/ntpd
• 1134[15:35:24] <hegemoOn> that's what i mean by interfering
• 1135[15:35:29] <ratrace> ah k
• 1136[15:35:50] <hegemoOn> timesyncd not syncrhonising with remote ntp servers when ntpd is installed
• 1137[15:35:59] <ratrace> right
• 1138[15:37:31] <hegemoOn> removing package is not idempotent
• 1139[15:37:45] <avernos> ratrace, what about sysusers? isnt remounting needed before networkonline.target? wont timesync keep new data until RW is possible?
• 1140[15:38:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1069
• 1141[15:39:04] <ratrace> avernos: might be needed. I don't know if timesyncd buffers "until fs is writeable". but .... what problem exactly are you trying to solve?
• 1142[15:40:11] <avernos> ratrace, i donnot have a time battery, and time refreshes onboot. Just timesyncd takes its time, not sure why and im hoping to update time sooner or faster
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• 1146[15:42:02] <cybercrypto> avernos: I have similar case (bios without battery) and I launch ntpd stratum 12 locally, to sync rigth after OS starts.
• 1147[15:42:09] <ratrace> avernos: well, it certainly has some dependencies like it requires DNS to work per default configuration, querying debian's NTP pool, which may take time to resolve
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• 1149[15:43:01] <ratrace> maybe you can shove that earlier in the boot process with some service unit adjustments and using ip addresses instead of pool hostnames
• 1150[15:43:07] <ratrace> or even from initramfs
• 1151[15:43:14] <avernos> ratrace, sure, but most of the time, i find my self able to ping debian.com before i get time, sometimes quite long
• 1152[15:44:05] <cybercrypto> ratrace: avernos: Yes. If you also use '-g' flag running ntpd, the time gets updated no matter the time offset is...
• 1153[15:44:31] <avernos> uhm, i like the idea to get the IPs there, thanks. but not really going to change anything i think
• 1154[15:44:33] <ratrace> yes with -g you can loosen the constraints and allow large time jumps
• 1155[15:44:46] <ratrace> avernos: maybe you can shove something as simple as chrony into initramfs
• 1156[15:45:00] <ratrace> unless timedatectl can be scripted to work from initramfs too
• 1157[15:45:11] <avernos> ratrace, ha, yeah, was just thinking i havent tried that
• 1158[15:45:30] <ratrace> I wouldn't run ntpd anyhow, because it's a beast and a (sometimes vulnerable) server itself, which is not needed in client situations
• 1159[15:45:54] <avernos> cybercrypto, thanks! im good with timesync, im more familiar with ntpd but want to keep it like that
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• 1161[15:46:47] <avernos> just want to get along with timesync, had a feeling would be easy to get it to update earlier
• 1162[15:46:49] <ratrace> avernos: using IPs will certainly shave off the DNS resolving time which on cold start and no upstream caching might take several seconds
• 1163[15:47:57] <evilbug> i'm kind of tempted to dual boot instead of just running linux in the vm.
• 1164[15:48:00] <evilbug> discuss.
• 1165[15:48:52] <evilbug> but then it's much easier to keep stuff going on windows and just pause the linux vm when not using it instead of rebooting into each os. :(
• 1166[15:49:01] *** Parts: ValeraRozuvan (~ValeraRoz@replaced-ip) ()
• 1167[15:49:06] <ratrace> why not the other way around
• 1168[15:49:10] <section1> use linux as primary desktop
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• 1171[15:49:38] <mspe> host ↔ vm
• 1172[15:49:43] <evilbug> when working with audio i need windows to have direct access to hardware :(
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• 1175[15:50:16] <evilbug> whereas on linux i mainly do web dev and it's easy to pause the vm then pick back up quick.
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• 1177[15:50:40] <evilbug> i guess i have my answer but i just don't like it.
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• 1179[15:51:27] <ratrace> evilbug: if you have sufficient hardware, you can pci-passthrough audio things into the windows VM
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• 1185[15:56:50] <evilbug> ratrace doesn't that involve recompiling the kernel and a bunch of other processes?
• 1186[15:57:28] <evilbug> first and foremost i would want windows to have access to the cpu.
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• 1188[15:57:46] <evilbug> then usb/tb.
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• 1190[15:58:09] <avernos> anyway, thanks ratrac, found some other options, by default pollmax is 34min will try the chrony as well
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• 1193[16:01:24] <qman__> evilbug: no, actually - passthrough is standard fare with modern hardware and virtualization
• 1194[16:01:39] <ratrace> evilbug: nope, it doesn't. it only requires reassigning the pci-ids to the vfio-pci driver, and then assigning those pci lanes to the VM
• 1195[16:01:42] <qman__> there are still bugs and issues with it, of course, but you don't need to do anything special to enable it
• 1196[16:02:09] <ratrace> there are constraints however, the hardware has to be capable
• 1197[16:02:26] <ratrace> you need sane iommu grouping because you must assigne whole pci lanes, you can't share a lane between host and a VM.
• 1198[16:02:56] <ratrace> and you need "posted interrupts" tech which is available with iirc broadware and newer CPUs, and of course ryzens. without this the interrupt latency is huge
• 1199[16:03:09] <ratrace> lol broadware .... broadwell is what I mean
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• 1202[16:04:32] <evilbug> well i have a 6700hq in this 14" razer blade.
• 1203[16:04:44] <ratrace> avernos: max poll interval is not an issue, that's the interval the polling slides to. you have min polling tho, 32 sec
• 1204[16:04:47] <evilbug> i'm sure that should be capable enough.
• 1205[16:04:48] <ratrace> (by default)
• 1206[16:05:35] <ratrace> evilbug: yes. but the motherboard might have insane iommu groupings. like mine did
• 1207[16:06:06] <evilbug> right.
• 1208[16:06:09] <ratrace> a thousand usb ports, all on the same pci lane. with most ports unused, I had to buy usb pci extension so I could assing the usb kbd+mouse to the gaming vm
• 1209[16:06:12] <evilbug> *sigh*
• 1210[16:06:44] <evilbug> i guess i'll stick with my current setup for now.
• 1211[16:07:06] <ratrace> but the NerdFactor is low in that one :))
• 1212[16:07:08] <evilbug> i'm currently traveling an this laptop is my only viable machine.
• 1213[16:07:26] <evilbug> i know, i'd like stability though.
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• 1215[16:07:44] <ratrace> what hypervisor are oyu using, virtualbox?
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• 1217[16:08:16] <evilbug> either that or kvm.
• 1218[16:08:29] <ratrace> I mean on windows host
• 1219[16:08:34] *** Joins: XsiSec (~xsisec@replaced-ip)
• 1220[16:08:42] <evilbug> ah, no. vmware.
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• 1222[16:08:59] <ratrace> which desktop in teh linux vm?
• 1223[16:09:40] <evilbug> debian with kde.
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• 1225[16:10:02] <evilbug> for the desktop vm i have 4 cores and 8gb dedicated to it.
• 1226[16:10:09] <ratrace> can vmware do gpu acceleration? probably requires guest modules.
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• 1228[16:10:37] <ratrace> because last time I tried a big DE like KDE or Gnome in virtualbox on windows, the performance was terrible because the DEs, especially gnome, wanted full HW accelerated gpu
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• 1230[16:11:29] <evilbug> it can, yeah. i've been installing the open-vm-tools package on both the desktop and headless vms then open-vm-tools-desktop for the desktop. there is a bit of tearing in videos but otherwise feels native in full screen.
• 1231[16:11:47] <ratrace> nice.
• 1232[16:12:13] <evilbug> enabling 3d accel in vmware then installing that desktop package is really nice.
• 1233[16:12:24] <evilbug> with vbox des lag pretty bad.
• 1234[16:12:44] <ratrace> yeah, even with vbox guest additions
• 1235[16:12:47] <evilbug> with vbox i'd only run headless vms.
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• 1237[16:13:06] <ratrace> I read great news lately. virtio-gpu and other nice virtio-things coming in the future
• 1238[16:13:21] <evilbug> but yeah, vmware workstation pro can run a linux desktop fast to where it feels like it's running directly on the harware.
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• 1240[16:13:33] <evilbug> but they're not here yet!
• 1241[16:13:47] <ratrace> yeah, too early
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• 1243[16:14:16] <evilbug> however on linux why not just go with qemu, ya know? :)
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• 1245[16:15:17] <ratrace> evilbug: yes, and hence the virtio thingies
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• 1247[16:16:36] <finalbeta> hmm, unattended upgrades by default doesn't update from debian 10.8 to 10.9. While apt-get update simply does this. How can I make unattended-upgrades do minor update releases please?
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• 1249[16:17:44] <evilbug> ratrace let's look forward to the future!
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• 1256[16:28:13] <kirk781> Debian, by default, ships with only free drivers, right?
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• 1258[16:28:38] <kirk781> I tried to install it the other day and after a long installation setup, it didn't boot into the GUI despite having on. Xorg crashed as well
• 1259[16:28:41] <ratrace> kirk781: with DFSG compliant software, yes
• 1260[16:28:59] <ratrace> the "freedom" of that may be subject to opinion
• 1261[16:29:28] <kirk781> I assumed video drivers were the issue in that case
• 1262[16:30:14] <ratrace> kirk781: no. "ships with" would assume default installations. you can always enable non-free repo and get non-free drivers (kernel modules, dkms thingies) and firmware if you want
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• 1265[16:30:48] <kirk781> ratrace, but enabling would require the system to boot up and connect to the internet for first time
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• 1267[16:31:09] <kirk781> I have had run Debian with no issues in the past but couldn't get it this time
• 1268[16:31:17] <ratrace> kirk781: yes, unless you install with "firmware ISO" and get nonfree NIC software support from the installation itself
• 1269[16:31:33] <ratrace> (but that doesn't include nonfree gpu things, afaik)
• 1270[16:31:56] <kirk781> I got the small one with Xfce as default. In the past, I had Ethernet access, so no need of GUI to access the repos. However, with wifi, it's different
• 1271[16:32:28] <ratrace> that's where the "firmare ISOs" come in the picture
• 1272[16:32:44] <ratrace> !firmware images
• 1273[16:32:44] <dpkg> There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from replaced-url
• 1274[16:32:47] <kirk781> Mobile data limits :p
• 1275[16:32:59] <kirk781> Hence, I switched to a Debian derived distro :p
• 1276[16:33:27] <kirk781> Would fiddling with nomodset gave me a working GUI atleast?
• 1277[16:35:06] <ratrace> in debian or in your derived distro you switched to? :)
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• 1280[16:38:29] <kirk781> ratrace, I meant Debian.
• 1281[16:38:45] <kirk781> I have currently Zorin installed, which is Debian derived
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• 1287[16:50:25] <ioxzev1z> Where are boot logs stored? I mean the lines with [ OK ] and [FAIL], etc
• 1288[16:51:27] <sig_9> dmesg
• 1289[16:51:32] <sig_9> sudo dmesg
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• 1302[17:02:31] <ratrace> kirk781: I've seen that fix some problems yes. not sure which ones exactly
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• 1312[17:11:51] <g0zzy> ntfs-3g mount attempt: "The device '/dev/nvme0n1p3' doesn't seem to have a valid NTFS." Could this be due to encryption in some way?
• 1313[17:12:29] <ioxzev1z> g0zzy, iirc can encrypt, so maybe
• 1314[17:12:45] <ioxzev1z> does the disk work on a 'doze system?
• 1315[17:13:10] <g0zzy> Yes it does
• 1316[17:13:32] <g0zzy> /dev/nvme0n1p3: DOS/MBR boot sector, code offset 0x58+2, OEM-ID "-FVE-FS-", sectors/cluster 8, reserved sectors 0, Media descriptor 0xf8, sectors/track 63, heads 255, hidden sectors 239616, FAT (32 bit), sectors/FAT 8160, serial number 0x0, unlabeled; NTFS, sectors/track 63, physical drive 0x1fe0, $MFT start cluster 393217, serial number 02020454d414e204f, checksum 0x41462020
• 1317[17:13:58] <g0zzy> (file -s)
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• 1325[17:20:04] <ioxzev1z> g0zzy, what is your ntfs-3g command?
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• 1330[17:25:50] <g0zzy> Just ntfs-3g /dev/nvme0n1p3 win
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• 1342[17:31:03] <Stonefruit> I have some unallocated space within a LUKS partition, which contains my debian virtual group (hope I am using the right terms). I'd like to extend my virtual group to all of the unallocated space. what is the easiest way to do this?
• 1343[17:31:26] <Stonefruit> can it be done without booting into Debian-live, etc.?
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• 1347[17:34:01] <wintersky> what's the best way to install vbox on bullseye?
• 1348[17:34:08] <wintersky> building from source?
• 1349[17:34:35] <ioxzev1z> Stonefruit, are you using LVM?
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• 1352[17:37:32] <Stonefruit> ioxzev1z, yes, I am.
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• 1355[17:37:55] <ioxzev1z> so you have LUKS(LVM(...)). Just lvextend then?
• 1356[17:38:27] <Aurora_v_kosmose> How hard would it be to package something which Guix packages? That is, they already have what patches are necessary for builds to exclusively use local resources (rather than maven's stuff).
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• 1363[17:41:20] <ioxzev1z> lvextend, then (if ext4) resize2fs on the device without a specified size
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• 1365[17:42:35] <Stonefruit> this is what I did: $ sudo resize2fs /dev/mapper/nvme0n1p3_crypt
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• 1370[17:44:23] <Stonefruit> ahh, that was wrong!
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• 1372[17:45:04] <Stonefruit> $ sudo resize2fs /dev/mapper/debian11--vg-home results in "The filesystem is already 42228736 (4k) blocks long. Nothing to do!". does this mean I don't actually have unallocated space?
• 1373[17:46:05] *** Quits: XsiSec (~xsisec@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1374[17:46:28] <ioxzev1z> no, lvextend -L <size> /dev/mapper/<dev>_crypt; to extend the LVM partition to the specified size inside the LUKS container. You then have to resize2fs /dev/mapper/<dev>; to resize the ext4 partition to the size of the LVM partition that you just extended. No?
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• 1377[17:47:53] <ioxzev1z> So with vg-home being your LVM partition, lvextend -L <size>G /dev/mapper/debian11--vg-home; resize2fs /dev/mapper/debian11--vg-home;
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• 1379[17:48:38] <ioxzev1z> Where -L <size>G means e.g. size=50, 50GiB
• 1380[17:48:42] <Stonefruit> ioxzev1z, sorry, I'm a bit slow. I've never used LUKS or LVM before, so I am googling what I'm typing :)
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• 1382[17:49:47] <ioxzev1z> Stonefruit, lvextend extends an LVM partition, resize2fs extends (as above with no size) the partition specified to the size of the device (in this case the size of the LVM partition)
• 1383[17:49:59] <ioxzev1z> Hence you lvextend, then resize2fs inside. Not the other way around
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• 1385[17:50:40] <ioxzev1z> In your case LUKS doesn't actually factor into the situation at all assuming you don't need to resize a LUKS partition.
• 1386[17:51:09] <ioxzev1z> But good idea to use LVM, much easier to modify
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• 1392[17:53:07] <Stonefruit> ioxzev1z, thanks! it worked, and I think I understand what's going on
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• 1394[17:54:30] <Stonefruit> so a second speculative question: if I now wanted to replace the hard drive with a larger one, could I dd the current one to the new one, then somehow resize the LUKS container, then repeat what you just showed me, and stick that drive into my laptop?
• 1395[17:55:16] <g0zzy> Thanks for interaction - might try to look in the laptop's bios if there's some sort of 'don't encrypt' option
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• 1407[18:04:43] <rustyshackleford> I have a usb exfat drive that I use for backups
• 1408[18:05:00] <rustyshackleford> so I'm playing around with rsync. It seems like file permissions are a problem
• 1409[18:07:35] <ratrace> more like, using exfat is the problem.
• 1410[18:07:39] <rustyshackleford> so after syncing, I run the same command. And rsync will back everything up
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• 1412[18:08:01] <rustyshackleford> because permissions, access times don't match
• 1413[18:08:23] <rustyshackleford> ratrace: seems that way
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• 1415[18:09:24] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: why do you use it? sharing with windows?
• 1416[18:09:39] <rustyshackleford> that was the idea
• 1417[18:09:51] <g0zzy> Format it as NTFS
• 1418[18:09:58] <rustyshackleford> well Mac actually
• 1419[18:10:05] <rustyshackleford> if I wanted to, I could plug it into my laptop and use the files directly
• 1420[18:11:06] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: you could still use exfat for that, or ntfs, and tell rsync to ignore permissions or timestamps and/or use only checksums
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• 1422[18:11:20] <ratrace> checksums might not be ideal tho
• 1423[18:11:40] <ratrace> but wait, are you sure it copies over all the data again?
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• 1425[18:11:54] <rustyshackleford> ratrace: I use the -P flag
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• 1427[18:12:04] <rustyshackleford> and it seems to show it copying everything again
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• 1429[18:12:42] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: rsync progress will show a file "transferred" even if it has to amend metadata. at the end you see the "speedup" in that it didn't copy over delta blocks that weren't modified
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• 1432[18:14:24] <ratrace> you can use --itemize-changes to actually see changes done per file
• 1433[18:14:45] <rustyshackleford> and it flags everything as changed
• 1434[18:14:54] <rustyshackleford> on subsequent runs
• 1435[18:16:14] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: what's the speedup at the end?
• 1436[18:17:08] <rustyshackleford> not sure I understand the question
• 1437[18:17:16] <rustyshackleford> it takes a long time
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• 1439[18:17:56] <ratrace> rsync reports "speedup" at the end which is some sort of ratio between total bytes surveyed and bytes actually transferred
• 1440[18:18:06] <rustyshackleford> well we know exfat is a problem
• 1441[18:18:18] <rustyshackleford> or are you suggesting that I can make this work on an exfat drive?
• 1442[18:18:41] <ratrace> maybe. if you tell rsync to ignore owners for example
• 1443[18:19:08] <rustyshackleford> exfat seemed appropriate for a usb drive that I might share between computers
• 1444[18:20:00] <rustyshackleford> is there a file system that would work well for Mac and linux? otherwise I could just go to ext4 or whatever
• 1445[18:20:34] <karlpinc> rustyshackleford: FWIW, having the time synced on both computers "helps".
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• 1447[18:21:15] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: can you install ZFS on a mac?
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• 1450[18:21:57] <rustyshackleford> ratrace: apparently you can
• 1451[18:22:09] <rustyshackleford> now the question is, does it work well?
• 1452[18:22:29] <ratrace> no idea.
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• 1454[18:23:32] <rustyshackleford> I could probably live with not being able to plug this drive into my mac
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• 1457[18:24:15] <rustyshackleford> I'll tinker a bit with trying to ignore owner and permissions
• 1458[18:24:22] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: but I'd really try another test with rsync. if you don't use its options to transfer permissions, owners, xattrs and other thingies exfat doesn't support, does it work? if it's based only on timestamp difference + delta transfer, it should work in theory
• 1459[18:24:33] <ratrace> which options are you using? try just with -r
• 1460[18:25:02] <ratrace> try a smaller directory for test. then rerun teh same command. what's the speedup at the end?
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• 1462[18:26:34] <rustyshackleford> oh I still have that terminal open
• 1463[18:26:38] <rustyshackleford> speedup is 1.00
• 1464[18:27:01] <rustyshackleford> using options -avP
• 1465[18:27:18] <ratrace> yeah don't use -a . use -r (and yes it won't transfer all those thingies implied with -a )
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• 1467[18:27:42] <rustyshackleford> docs suggested that -a is what I want. I don't really understand the difference
• 1468[18:27:52] <rustyshackleford> or I don't remember at least
• 1469[18:28:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1088
• 1470[18:28:17] <ratrace> -a includes permissions, owners, symlinks which isn't supported on exfat
• 1471[18:28:54] <rustyshackleford> so speedup 1.00 means that it had to copy everything again
• 1472[18:29:16] <ratrace> yes, greater than 1.00 means blocks were skipped because they're already at the destination
• 1473[18:29:18] <rustyshackleford> and the value would be higher if it was recognizing that some files are identical, and so skipping them
• 1474[18:29:59] <ratrace> as an alternative ... maybe you can stick a single tarball on that exfat. a tarball can store all the metadata the linux supports so you don't lose it, AND it can do delta updates. a bit.... wieldly.... but... does the job
• 1475[18:30:23] <rustyshackleford> I should have used a smaller directory...
• 1476[18:30:40] <rustyshackleford> but progress seems to indicate that its copying everything again, even with the -r flag
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• 1481[18:31:49] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: try including --times
• 1482[18:32:00] <ratrace> rsync -rtv /source/... /mnt/dest/...
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• 1485[18:33:09] <ratrace> forgot -t was implied with -a and that's one thing that's kinda important here
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• 1487[18:33:36] <rustyshackleford> operation not permitted
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• 1490[18:33:52] <ratrace> aha!
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• 1495[18:34:31] <ratrace> how are you mounting that exfat, what options are you using?
• 1496[18:34:33] <rustyshackleford> what does that tell you?
• 1497[18:34:40] <rustyshackleford> mount -t exfat
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• 1499[18:35:25] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: as your user or root?
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• 1501[18:35:43] <rustyshackleford> as sudo
• 1502[18:35:55] <ratrace> it tells me mount options are possibly missing and it isn't setting modification times which retriggers rsync to copy over again
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• 1504[18:36:06] <rustyshackleford> and then the owner of these files are another user
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• 1506[18:36:18] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: and then how are you running rsync? as root?
• 1507[18:36:22] <rustyshackleford> mediaservice is a non root user that runs Plex and some other stuff
• 1508[18:36:31] <rustyshackleford> and so it owns all of the backing files
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• 1510[18:36:50] <rustyshackleford> I'm running sudo -su mediaservice rsync ...
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• 1513[18:38:08] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: does that user have the permission to write into mounted exfat directory?
• 1514[18:38:24] <rustyshackleford> seems that way yeah
• 1515[18:38:34] <rustyshackleford> even though the exfat drive was mounted as root
• 1516[18:39:22] <ratrace> doesn't make any sense. can you pastebin the output of `mount` ? you can grep it just for the exfat entry and if it's a single line, paste here
• 1517[18:39:25] <ratrace> should be a single line
• 1518[18:40:06] <rustyshackleford> ahhh my copy and paste is broken in tmux
• 1519[18:40:09] <rustyshackleford> just a second
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• 1521[18:40:27] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: .... | nc termbin.com 9999
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• 1524[18:41:15] <rustyshackleford> /dev/sdc1 on /media/usb type fuseblk (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=0,group_id=0,default_permissions,allow_other,blksize=4096)
• 1525[18:41:23] *** Quits: kainengran (~kainengra@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 1526[18:42:08] <ratrace> oh right that's FUSE ....
• 1527[18:42:36] <rustyshackleford> thanks for the help by the way
• 1528[18:42:51] <Aurora_v_kosmose> What to do with buildpackage if upstream doesn't bother to tag?
• 1529[18:43:09] <rustyshackleford> so that was a good question. Is there a problem with the way I have these users set up?
• 1530[18:43:39] <rustyshackleford> I was thinking I probably shouldn't run rsync as root
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• 1534[18:44:26] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: that really depends a lot. rsyncing as root allows syncing files that belong to multiple users
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• 1536[18:44:37] <wintersky> will vbox get to bullseye?
• 1537[18:45:04] <rustyshackleford> ratrace: and I definitely don't want Plex or transmission running as root
• 1538[18:45:21] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: as for your particular case here ... I'm not really at home with FUSE things, so I'm not sure how that changes things, but normally with filesystems that don't support linux permissions, you mount with uid,gid options for the user you want to be able to write normally
• 1539[18:45:37] <rustyshackleford> gotcha
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• 1542[18:45:57] <rustyshackleford> so basically, I specify who owns this drive
• 1543[18:46:04] <rustyshackleford> since it has no concept of ownership or permissions
• 1544[18:46:17] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: that said, I'm not sure how you could transfer anything, if it was mounted with root ownership and you rsync'ed as mediaservice
• 1545[18:46:23] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: exactly
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• 1548[18:47:13] <ratrace> so when you remount with proper uid,gid try rsync -rv again
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• 1550[18:47:28] <rustyshackleford> and I'm starting to think I should just format my backup drive as ext4
• 1551[18:47:50] <rustyshackleford> ratrace: well what's your filesystem of choice? you seem to know a lot about these
• 1552[18:47:54] <ratrace> well you're definitely losing metadata when storing to exfat
• 1553[18:48:01] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: zfs and btrfs :)
• 1554[18:48:12] <rustyshackleford> I guess I just pick ext4 because that's what ubuntu did by default
• 1555[18:49:13] <rustyshackleford> I would like to play around with raid configs at some point too. need a server with more drive bays
• 1556[18:49:56] <ratrace> since I started using zfs and btrfs, I never looked back. I couldn't imagine storing data I care about on anything else, and without sufficient redundancy in RAID
• 1557[18:49:56] <rustyshackleford> ratrace: so a guy in another channel had a backup system that seemed really convenient. something like this:
• 1558[18:50:21] <rustyshackleford> 3 drives total. 2 in the machine, using something that made them redundant (raid?)
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• 1562[18:50:57] <rustyshackleford> the other drive is offline backup. To "update" your backups, you take one drive out of the machine, and put your old offline backup into the machine
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• 1565[18:52:42] <ratrace> welp, that "works" but it's really abusing degraded raid state and resilvering
• 1566[18:53:21] <oxek> wintersky: unlikely
• 1567[18:53:44] <ratrace> and it's fiddly. last tiem I fiddled with hot swappable drives I accidentally dislogded the sata cable of a raid member. hilarity ensued int he log files but since that was btrfs and there was redundancy, it just hummed along, corrected all the nonsense that I caused
• 1568[18:53:48] <oxek> maybe into bullseye-backports, in case oracle becomes friendlier
• 1569[18:54:11] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: if that were mdadm, I'd have unhappy times.
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• 1571[18:54:49] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: but with zfs and btrfs you don't need to abuse resilvering to get speed. I guess they did so to get block-level resilvery speed, as opposed to filesystem level which is much slower
• 1572[18:55:02] <ratrace> zfs and btrfs "send" does block|extent level transfers
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• 1583[19:05:31] <rustyshackleford> ratrace: anything convenient that you suggest?
• 1584[19:05:52] <rustyshackleford> a usb drive seems like a janky backup system
• 1585[19:07:09] <ratrace> rustyshackleford: it is, so it's even more a reason to stick btrfs or zfs on that, as they do data checksumming
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• 1587[19:08:01] <ratrace> even without redundancy, these two can find and point at corruption so you can replace the files. ext4 other fs that don't do data checksums, have no such checks and balances
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• 1601[19:21:01] <rustyshackleford> ratrace: can you format a filesystem in place?
• 1602[19:21:18] <rustyshackleford> ext4 to zfs or whatever?
• 1603[19:21:44] <rustyshackleford> Or I could just wait until I build a new server
• 1604[19:22:04] <sney> the ext* generations could be upgraded in place, but btrfs's convert utility was so broken that it's not in the debian package anymore
• 1605[19:22:22] <sney> generally if you want a new filesystem, you backup, reformat, and restore
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• 1607[19:24:03] <rustyshackleford> that works for some of my drives
• 1608[19:24:20] <rustyshackleford> what about / though? I'm looking at a fresh OS install then
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• 1611[19:24:45] <sney> sometimes it's the only option
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• 1613[19:25:06] <rustyshackleford> so I'll save it for my new server I guess
• 1614[19:25:11] <sney> luckily apt has various options for cloning your environment, or at least getting back to a similar state
• 1615[19:25:33] <rustyshackleford> how do I find out when I installed this OS?
• 1616[19:25:46] <rustyshackleford> this is one of the longest times I've run a linux install
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• 1619[19:26:01] <sney> look at the filesystem creation date for your / disk
• 1620[19:26:08] <rustyshackleford> usually I end up tinkering too much, breaking something, reinstalling within 6 months
• 1621[19:28:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1076
• 1622[19:28:13] <rustyshackleford> December 30, 2018
• 1623[19:28:18] <rustyshackleford> that's not that long ago
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• 1657[20:06:09] <jhutchins> TheBigK02: /msg judd kernels
• 1658[20:06:18] <jhutchins> ,k
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• 1661[20:06:36] <jhutchins> ,kernels
• 1662[20:06:37] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.10.0-trunk-686 (5.10.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.10.0-5-686 (5.10.26-1); bullseye: 5.10.0-5-686 (5.10.24-1); buster-backports: 5.10.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (5.10.19-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-16-686-pae (4.19.181-1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.16-686 (4.19.181-1~deb9u1); jessie-
• 1663[20:06:38] <judd> backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1)
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• 1670[20:13:07] <ironm> Hello. Please allow me short question: Is there QR code reader for debian buster 10.9 to extract binary content of the QR image ?
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• 1673[20:14:13] <ironm> I have tried zbar-tools but the I was not able to get the same content as the origin encoding the binary file using " qrencode -o msrsa-pub.gpg-qrcode.png -r msrsa-pub.gpg -8"
• 1674[20:14:27] <ironm> thank you in advance for all hints
• 1675[20:14:31] <oxek> ironm: zbar-tools and qrencode
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• 1677[20:15:18] <jhutchins> ironm: I don't think there's an internal one that would read digital codes. There are probably browser extensions that would.
• 1678[20:15:39] <jhutchins> ironm: You would need at least a built-in or external camera.
• 1679[20:16:06] <jhutchins> ironm: A generic stand-alone reader would work if you can get the software for it.
• 1680[20:16:11] <ironm> oxek, thank you. How can I extract binary content to file? Using the "--xml" option I can see the somehow encoded binary content and additional QR code headers
• 1681[20:17:18] <ironm> jhutchins, thank you. Till now I did not find any QR reader extracting the raw binary content for the QR image (png)
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• 1683[20:18:48] <ironm> s/for / from /
• 1684[20:19:48] <ironm> I have tried also "qtqr" .. but it is more like viewer only
• 1685[20:20:55] <ironm> I have tried also "qtqr" .. but it is more like viewer only
• 1686[20:21:04] <ironm> I see there is also another one - qreator
• 1687[20:21:07] <ironm> sorry
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• 1697[20:34:42] <jhutchins> Np
• 1698[20:35:15] <jhutchins> ironm: What kind of codes are you anticipating?
• 1699[20:35:38] <jhutchins> Anybody remember QueCat?
• 1700[20:37:38] <ironm> jhutchins, I want to put encoded public key (RSA 4096) on the business card and I am looking how to read this key back
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• 1702[20:38:26] <ironm> only public keys in binary format (because of the size)
• 1703[20:38:47] <ironm> otherwise I have to split
• 1704[20:38:59] <ironm> when using .asc
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• 1709[20:47:19] <mentor> ironm: You want to end with it outputting directly a file with a name with the relevant content?
• 1710[20:49:05] <ironm> mentor, yes, only the encoded binary content
• 1711[20:49:28] <ironm> without QR code headers etc.
• 1712[20:50:15] <ironm> the name of the file is not important
• 1713[20:51:53] <ironm> mentor, it is working for splited key in .asc format (into two parts because of the size and QR code limitations)
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• 1715[20:52:31] <ironm> but not for binary content (smaller size just fitting QR code limitations)
• 1716[20:54:30] <greycat> I missed the context -- are you trying to store binary data in a bash variable?
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• 1718[21:00:27] <mentor> ironm: There seems to be a number of options for zbar to output in various formats.
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• 1766[21:43:07] <oxek> ironm: why not just put the fingerprint of the key on the business card?
• 1767[21:43:33] <oxek> or use ecc keys which are shorter
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• 1784[21:55:38] <ironm> mentor, there is no option to extract binary content only
• 1785[21:56:11] <mentor> ironm: Parse out the other bits?
• 1786[21:56:17] <ironm> greycat, no I try to extract binary content from a QR image into a file
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• 1788[21:56:55] <ironm> mentor, when I would know how.. the data inside the xml output is encoded
• 1789[21:57:26] <mentor> ironm: I think you have your language set to Yoda?
• 1790[21:57:36] <ironm> oxek, I put the public key on the back side of the card
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• 1792[21:58:45] <ironm> oxek, gnupg 2.2.27 does not support ecc keys (as far as I can follow)
• 1793[21:59:42] <ironm> mentor, I am sorry, I am not able to follow what do you mean with "Yoda"
• 1794[21:59:49] <oxek> ironm: gpg --version
• 1795[21:59:59] <ironm> gpg (GnuPG) 2.2.27
• 1796[22:00:06] <oxek> if you see ECDSA or EDDSA or ECsomething, then it supports ECC keys
• 1797[22:00:31] <ironm> I do not see
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• 1799[22:00:47] <ironm> sorry.. I see
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• 1801[22:01:02] <ironm> Öff. Schlüssel: RSA, ELG, DSA, ECDH, ECDSA, EDDSA
• 1802[22:01:10] <mentor> ironm: I don't know what this means: "when I would know how.. the data inside the xml output is encoded"
• 1803[22:01:57] <oxek> ironm: also, you're using non-debian gnupg (or not using debian-stable), so thing might be different
• 1804[22:02:08] <ironm> mentor, thank you. I will have to check it in case I do not find another solution
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• 1806[22:02:43] <ironm> oxek, I run debian buster 10.9 with backported gnupg (from bullseye
• 1807[22:02:45] <ironm> )
• 1808[22:03:16] <oxek> hmm, intersting, I didn't think gnupg would get backports
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• 1810[22:05:16] <ironm> apt-get install gnupg/buster-backports
• 1811[22:06:02] <oxek> anyway, your gnupg supports all the fancy ecc crypto
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• 1814[22:07:34] <ironm> but not most of other applications are able to import such public keys (ecc crypto) ... as far as I can follow
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• 1817[22:09:33] <oxek> ironm: nobody is going to be using your key anyway, realistically
• 1818[22:10:31] <ironm> oxek, at least I can myself run tests using different keys and different email addresses
• 1819[22:10:47] <oxek> I've been signing all my emails, all software releases, and published my keys in all the keyservers, for over 20 years and have never received an encrypted message. Plus I'm pretty sure nobody checks the signatures either.
• 1820[22:11:24] <ironm> oxek, maybe you will get an encrypted message from me ;-)
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• 1822[22:12:00] <ironm> when I get it running with thunderbird or another email client
• 1823[22:12:16] <greycat> I used to check signatures, or at least, I had configured mutt to do it for me, and I would import keys periodically... but I gave up on it a while back
• 1824[22:12:56] <oxek> pretty much all my communication is in the public anyway, or intended to be published
• 1825[22:13:03] <ironm> greycat, why have you given up?
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• 1827[22:13:59] <ironm> oxek, for public communication it is Ok
• 1828[22:14:12] <greycat> it's a lot of hassle for no real gains, especially when Debian keeps swapping out versions of mutt, and versions of gpg
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• 1830[22:15:07] <ironm> greycat, yes, it is a bit hard
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• 1834[22:16:31] <oxek> I'd like to use mutt, but have been told it won't work because my filesystems use noatime
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• 1837[22:16:57] <ironm> oxek, do you run linux or something else ?
• 1838[22:17:12] <oxek> ironm: in this channel, I run debian
• 1839[22:17:24] <ironm> :-)
• 1840[22:18:06] *** Quits: b1ack0p (~m@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 1841[22:18:32] <ironm> gpg --full-gen-key | (2) DSA und Elgamal
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• 1844[22:20:42] <ironm> I am not sure how to create "ECDH, ECDSA, EDDSA" public keys using "gpg --full-gen-key"
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• 1846[22:21:42] <oxek> probably need --expert
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• 1848[22:21:47] <aig> is around here a programmer girl ?
• 1849[22:22:01] <oxek> aig: what's that?
• 1850[22:22:10] <aig> a girl who is programming
• 1851[22:22:14] <greycat> We do not ask for people's sex here.
• 1852[22:22:22] <aig> okey
• 1853[22:22:31] <ironm> oxek, yes, thank you!
• 1854[22:22:33] <oxek> I'm so stupid for not realizing what 'girl' meant...
• 1855[22:22:49] <oxek> thought it was g-i-r-l
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• 1857[22:23:46] <ironm> (9) ECC und ECC
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• 1861[22:24:13] <ironm> (1) Curve 25519
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• 1868[22:25:08] <ironm> well, no idea it there is a better choiced like "(8) Brainpool P-512" or "(9) secp256k1"
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• 1870[22:25:19] <ironm> s/it /if /
• 1871[22:25:21] <oxek> ironm: maybe best if you find some good online guide for how to create ECC keys in new gnupg, rather than blindly creating stuff you might not be famliar with
• 1872[22:25:28] <oxek> especially since it is crypto related
• 1873[22:25:35] <greycat> there's a #gnupg channel as well
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• 1875[22:25:51] <ironm> greycat, no one is answering there at the moment
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• 1879[22:26:29] <oxek> it's a fairly low-volume channel
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• 1902[22:27:18] <ironm> oxek, I was reading a lot one or two years ago ...
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• 1904[22:27:45] <ironm> but can not remember Brainpool P-512 or secp256k1
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• 1906[22:28:03] <oxek> ironm: replaced-url
• 1907[22:28:20] <ironm> only that NIST curves are unsafe
• 1908[22:28:29] <oxek> "unsafe"
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• 1912[22:29:10] <ironm> oxek, thanks a lot for the link
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• 1917[22:32:59] <EdePopede> oxek, from me too. bookmarked again the domain.
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• 1919[22:34:41] <oxek> it's a good site, from two very respected people
• 1920[22:35:25] <ironm> from supported options (gnupg 2.2.27) only "Curve 25519" seems to be "safe"
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• 1922[22:37:11] <oxek> curve25519 is popular in many places
• 1923[22:38:02] <ironm> I have created just new keys and will run some tests
• 1924[22:38:33] <ironm> (9) ECC und ECC / (1) Curve 25519
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• 1926[22:41:22] <ironm> pub ed25519 2021-04-08 [SC] [verfällt: 2021-04-18]
• 1927[22:41:42] <oxek> I'd still recommend you do some more reading (and feel free to come back if you have questions about what you read)
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• 1930[22:42:12] <cws> "unsafe" in this case is a super-nebulous concept that hasn't been supported by anything other than people's feelings.
• 1931[22:42:16] <ironm> oxek, in the past ed25519 was my choice
• 1932[22:42:36] <ironm> I have to check what software does support such keys
• 1933[22:42:55] <ironm> cws, yes, I am a kind of maniac
• 1934[22:42:56] <cws> There is zero actual evidence that there is anything unsafe about the NIST curves, other than sucking to implement.
• 1935[22:43:12] <cws> ironm: That's not a valid reason upon which to base technical choices.
• 1936[22:43:20] <oxek> Suite B and/or certified up to top secret - they are fine to use, if implemented well.
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• 1939[22:44:16] <ironm> cws, I trust more non US people
• 1940[22:44:34] <cws> See the previous. That's not a valid reason upon which to base technical choices.
• 1941[22:45:07] <ironm> cws, well there is some long bad experience
• 1942[22:45:20] <cws> See the previous. That's not a valid reason upon which to base technical choices. I can keep going.
• 1943[22:45:33] <cws> Besides, I wonder how many Debian contributors are "US people."
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• 1946[22:45:45] <cws> You may want to watch your proverbial mouth.
• 1947[22:46:26] <ironm> well, I said what I think
• 1948[22:46:45] <cws> And what you think isn't founded on anything real, so it would bear serious reconsideration and adjustment.
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• 1950[22:46:49] <ironm> it might not be 100% politically correct
• 1951[22:47:05] <cws> It's not, and its verging on discriminatory.
• 1952[22:47:25] <cws> If I said "I don't trust French people," I'd expect to get kicked the hell out.
• 1953[22:47:37] <cws> So knock it off.
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• 1959[22:52:08] <ironm> cws. from my point ov view there are three recommended choices for now (gnuppg 2.2.27): RSA 4096, DSA 3072 and ECC ed25519
• 1960[22:52:28] <ironm> I tend myself to ECC ed25519
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• 1962[22:54:22] <ironm> cws, now I have checked the meaning of "verging on discriminatory" .. it is not that.
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• 1964[22:54:52] <ironm> US people are politically limited (controlled) and that is the point
• 1965[22:55:25] <ironm> not the US people themself
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• 1967[22:55:53] <oxek> ironm: it really is getting very much offtopic for #debian
• 1968[22:56:25] <ironm> oxek, you are right
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