Realtime Nick Name Ticker of #debian at freenode (ICQ IRC service)

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2[00:00:21] <mycel> I think it has to do with the routings
3[00:00:56] <mycel> because my pings are too good over wlan0
4[00:01:08] <mycel> 192.168.0.221: icmp_seq=0 ttl=64 time=2.362 ms
5[00:01:42] <mycel> routings == routes
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49[00:52:54] <SerajewelKS> Noldorin: jeez we keep missing each other
50[00:53:01] <SerajewelKS> i'm back at the keys for awhile now. where are you in the proces?
51[00:53:03] <SerajewelKS> process*
52[00:53:18] <Noldorin> SerajewelKS, I'm here now :-)
53[00:53:26] <Noldorin> thought you were avoiding me ha
54[00:53:28] <Noldorin> (not really)
55[00:53:42] <Noldorin> in the middle of the block copy... let me check
56[00:53:47] <SerajewelKS> are you using ddrescue
57[00:53:50] <Noldorin> oh no
58[00:53:55] <Noldorin> I mean, it's actually doing the RAID sync
59[00:53:59] <Noldorin> in the middle of that
60[00:54:04] <Noldorin> no. do I need to use ddrescue?
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62[00:54:23] <SerajewelKS> no, i was reading backlogs
63[00:54:28] <SerajewelKS> was going to tell you to stop it :)
64[00:55:25] <SerajewelKS> if it's doing the sync then you're good
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66[00:55:30] <SerajewelKS> did you get the raid assembled read-write?
67[00:55:39] <SerajewelKS> i guess you would've had to for it to be syncing
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69[00:55:50] <SerajewelKS> next step would be to fsck the volume while it's not mounted
70[00:55:55] <SerajewelKS> which you can do during the resync
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79[01:02:12] <Noldorin> SerajewelKS, err, I must have yeah. I think it's just running it r-w rather than re-assembling it, no?
80[01:02:15] <Noldorin> may be wrong
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82[01:02:26] <Noldorin> SerajewelKS, just `fsck /dev/md0`?
83[01:02:28] <SerajewelKS> the detail output would tell you
84[01:02:39] <SerajewelKS> but regardless, it won't resync in read-only mode. so it must be read-write.
85[01:02:43] <SerajewelKS> yes, assuming it's not mounted
86[01:03:00] <SerajewelKS> it may be slower than usual since the resync is going on
87[01:03:01] <Noldorin> SerajewelKS, I can unmount and that won't interrupt the resync?
88[01:03:05] <Noldorin> okay
89[01:03:07] <SerajewelKS> correct
90[01:03:18] <SerajewelKS> the syncing happens at a layer below the filesystem
91[01:03:27] <SerajewelKS> raid1 doesn't care about the filesystem, the filesystem doesn't care about the raid1
92[01:03:31] <Noldorin> ah, at block level?
93[01:03:32] <Noldorin> nice
94[01:03:34] <SerajewelKS> yes
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96[01:04:01] <Noldorin> only 6.2% done after a few hours... ouch
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98[01:04:11] <Noldorin> 2TB is a lot, I suppose
99[01:04:15] <Noldorin> and bandwidth is low
100[01:04:25] <Noldorin> USB bitrate I mean
101[01:04:34] <Noldorin> /dev/md0: clean, 28625/122093568 files, 29224547/488345616 blocks
102[01:05:04] <SerajewelKS> i'm guessing it recovered the journal when you mounted it
103[01:05:09] <SerajewelKS> if you want to be paranoid you could fsck -f
104[01:05:43] <SerajewelKS> the nice thing about raid1 though is you can continue to use the volume as though everything is fine during the resync
105[01:05:56] <Noldorin> cool
106[01:06:11] <SerajewelKS> it'll just be kinda slow
107[01:06:11] <Noldorin> I won't write to it I think
108[01:06:15] <Noldorin> but I may read from it
109[01:07:07] <Noldorin> will fsck -f take a long time?
110[01:07:10] <SerajewelKS> both will work, just not as fast
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112[01:07:13] <SerajewelKS> yes, it may take some time
113[01:07:33] <SerajewelKS> reading will still be impacted performance-wise because sda is being heavily read from already to complete the resync
114[01:07:44] <SerajewelKS> so there will be contention for the disk
115[01:09:32] <Noldorin> ah
116[01:09:36] <Noldorin> makes sense
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119[01:10:37] <SerajewelKS> if this machine has two separate USB controllers you may be able to improve performance by plugging each drive into a different controller
120[01:10:43] <SerajewelKS> assuming that USB throughput is the bottleneck
121[01:10:55] <Noldorin> hahah... it's a RaspberryPi, so that's going to be a no
122[01:11:01] <SerajewelKS> oh damn
123[01:11:13] <SerajewelKS> well. this gonna be a fun exercise then.
124[01:11:20] <Noldorin> yeah. this is definitely not an ideal setup. good learning experience though
125[01:13:01] <SerajewelKS> i used a VM to learn dmraid, using virtual disks on the same physical disk
126[01:13:13] <SerajewelKS> so obviously raid1 wasn't useful in that scenario, but i got familiar with the commands and concepts
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128[01:13:57] <Noldorin> I see
129[01:14:03] <Noldorin> yeah, that would be quicker
130[01:14:08] <Noldorin> less "fun" perhaps though
131[01:14:50] <Noldorin> is dmraid for hardware raid? while mdadm is for software raid?
132[01:15:16] <SerajewelKS> dmraid is software raid, mdadm is the tool you use to control it
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134[01:15:39] <Noldorin> oh I see
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145[01:27:54] <Noldorin> SerajewelKS, looks like fsck -f did okay. /dev/md0: 28625/122093568 files (25.1% non-contiguous), 29224547/488345616 blocks
146[01:28:00] <SerajewelKS> nice
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149[01:28:36] <SerajewelKS> resyncing is persistent so if you shut the machine down and turn it back on (and the raid reassembles successfully) it will resume where it left off
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153[01:33:50] <ralpheeee> installed fonts-powerline and the symbols are incorrect wrong / diff symbols all together....have checked my loclae "LANG=en_US.UTF-8" "LANGUAGE=en_US:en"
154[01:34:19] <Noldorin> SerajewelKS, yeah that's pretty cool
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157[01:37:35] <dirac1> Hello I have debian in strech, but I want to use a package (borgbackup) in a version 1.1+, there's a way to do it without taking my whole system to sid?
158[01:37:48] <SerajewelKS> !simple sid backport
159[01:37:48] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
160[01:38:24] <dirac1> Thanks.
161[01:38:52] <Noldorin> SerajewelKS, anyway looks good. my NAS is back-up running, so thanks. I'll ping you if anything goes wrong, but I expect it will all be in order when this resync finishes. :-)
162[01:39:07] <SerajewelKS> Noldorin: good luck! maybe invest in a UPS :)
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164[01:39:29] <Noldorin> SerajewelKS, UPS?
165[01:39:36] <SerajewelKS> uninterruptible power supply
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167[01:39:56] <SerajewelKS> assuming this incident was caused by a power cut, a UPS will give the system enough power to at least shut itself down cleanly for extended power outages
168[01:40:04] <SerajewelKS> if the power outage is short, it can just power the system through the outage
169[01:40:17] <Noldorin> ah yes
170[01:40:22] <Noldorin> true that
171[01:40:57] <Noldorin> SerajewelKS, can UPSs send signals that the power is out?
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174[01:44:18] <SerajewelKS> Noldorin: many UPSes have a USB connector that feeds this info to a computer, yes
175[01:44:35] <Noldorin> cool
176[01:44:37] <SerajewelKS> debian has some tools (nut) to monitor UPSes and perform actions when the power level reaches certain thresholds
177[01:44:37] <Noldorin> good idea then
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179[01:45:43] <SerajewelKS> if it's a rpi then the UPS doesn't need much capacity
180[01:46:17] <rant> could use a damn portable usb charger
181[01:46:38] <SerajewelKS> even that yeah
182[01:46:45] <SerajewelKS> though you won't be able to tell how much charge it has
183[01:46:47] <rant> though idk what sort of disks you're using on this thing
184[01:47:05] <rant> that prob sucks up more power than the machine itself
185[01:48:01] <SerajewelKS> depends if they're spinning too, if they're usually idle then they shouldn't draw much at all
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192[01:52:30] <Noldorin> SerajewelKS, ideally something to power both drives and the rpi for 5 or 10 mins at least
193[01:52:44] <Noldorin> if it sends a signal, all the better
194[01:52:47] <Noldorin> got any recommendations?
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197[01:55:16] <Noldorin> issue is, I'm already using an external USB power hub for the two USB drives...
198[01:56:00] <SerajewelKS> Noldorin: TBH anything you get should be big enough
199[01:56:06] <Noldorin> heh
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201[01:56:27] <SerajewelKS> most UPSes are built to power at least a desktop workstation for 15-30 minutes
202[01:56:34] <SerajewelKS> they should run your rpi for hours
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204[01:58:22] <Noldorin> SerajewelKS, oh I was thinking of just a portable USB charger like rant suggested. a UPS seems too expensive
205[01:58:30] <Noldorin> a quick search was showing prices of > £100
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215[02:04:21] <Noldorin> SerajewelKS, am I mistaken? anyway, I doubt a power bank would be enough now
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220[02:08:48] <Noldorin> bbiab
221[02:08:56] <ardian> hi, is there a way to install debian from live cd?
222[02:09:12] <ardian> seems like the installer app doesn't come with the live image anymore.
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267[02:45:11] <deadman36g> I was following the FAQ at replaced-url
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270[02:51:48] <SerajewelKS> deadman36g: make sure you add _netdev to the options
271[02:53:12] <SerajewelKS> also i'm not sure who wrote this guide, but you need the "auto" option as well
272[02:53:32] <SerajewelKS> which is part of "defaults"
273[02:53:36] <deadman36g> SerajewelKS my current entry in fstab is ;sshfs#user@myserver.com:/media/sdav/home /srv/feral/ fuse reconnect,allow_other,ServerAliveInterval=15,ServerAliveCountMax=3,_netdev,user,idmap=user 0 0;
274[02:53:42] <SerajewelKS> so you may want defaults,user,idmap=user,_netdev
275[02:54:02] <SerajewelKS> i don't see "defaults" or "auto" in the options
276[02:54:06] <SerajewelKS> hence, i don't think it will automount
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278[02:54:13] <SerajewelKS> but i may be mistaken
279[02:54:32] <deadman36g> Trying now with defaults added
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281[02:57:35] <deadman36g> Trying sshfs#user@myserver.com:/media/sdav/user /srv/feral/ fuse auto,user,idmap=user,_netdev 0 0 did not work
282[02:58:30] <SerajewelKS> hmm. might check syslog to see if it was attempted.
283[02:58:31] <Kaminota> fuse.sshfs
284[02:58:32] <deadman36g> The mount -a command will connect me, but I am just not auto connecting at boot for some reason
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286[02:59:18] <Kaminota> username@hostname:/mount/point /local/mount/point fuse.sshfs
287[02:59:32] <Kaminota> And on mine my options are defaults,reconnect,allow_other,default_permissions,_netdev
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290[02:59:59] <Kaminota> deadman36g (Forgot to ping.)
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292[03:00:10] <deadman36g> Thank you making the changes now
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294[03:01:50] <deadman36g> ok, my entire entry is "sshfs#deadman36g@ephialtes.feralhosting.com:/media/sdav/deadman36g /srv/feral/ fuse.sshfs defaults,user,idmap=user,_netdev 0 0" but still not auto connecting
295[03:02:24] <Kaminota> leave off the sshfs# at the start.
296[03:03:53] <deadman36g> Kaminota It worked!!
297[03:03:56] <Kaminota> And you don't NEED the 0 0 at the end. They are assumed if not given.
298[03:03:59] <Kaminota> Yeah!
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330[03:54:29] <rant> in most files ; and # are comments
331[03:55:06] <rant> and I'm not certain about fstab if it considers everything after a # a comment or only if its first char but I'm willing to bet it considered everything after the # a comment
332[03:56:36] <rant> its probably a bad idea to set this to auto though as it may hang the boot considerably if its unreachable
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336[03:57:41] <rant> guess I'm way late on that.. :P
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339[04:03:19] <novilog> I'm trying to run a program that I wrote that (I suspect) is taking up too much memory and causing my system to crash. Is there a way to limit the amount of memory this program can use while running as a command line argument? Something like 'limit -m 2G ./program < input.txt' ?
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341[04:04:03] <rant> well while that sort of thing could be done, if your program is OOMing, thats a problem that needs to be fixed
342[04:05:00] <novilog> I don't know if it is for certain. It's difficult to determine whether it's eating memory or the system I'm trying to run it on has some kind of unexpected bottleneck, thus the need for such a device. I'm running a persistent live debian usb on a chromebook for reference
343[04:06:32] <rant> ah, well yes that would be using a lot of your ram already
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345[04:06:38] <rant> how much memory do you have available?
346[04:06:47] <novilog> Also worth noting that I have 2.9G of memory available according to free -h
347[04:07:11] <rant> so you have what like 4G total?
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349[04:07:30] <novilog> Correct. And the program locks up my computer entirely after about 8-9 seconds.
350[04:07:54] <novilog> I can't tell what the actual bottleneck is though, because it doesn't actually "crash" per-say. It just freezes everything
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352[04:08:52] <novilog> I haven't let it run for a long period of time though just to see if it would eventually catch up. I know sometimes I get the same freezing behavior right after boot-up or while trying to open a 'larger' app like firefox, which I can imagine is consuming all of my memory -- thus the confusion
353[04:08:59] <rant> are you willing or able to share this code or more info about what its doing?
354[04:09:27] <novilog> It's for a class and unfortunately I'm forbidden from getting unauthorized external assistance with the code itself.
355[04:09:36] <rant> ah I see
356[04:09:45] <novilog> Just trying to see if there're some bash tools out there that can help my debug what the problem is from my end
357[04:09:52] <Kaminota> rant, In fstab only when the # is at the start is it a comment. Also for net devices I believe it will only hold the system for a max of 30 seconds and that is rare. How he was trying to do it is an old obsolete way.
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360[04:10:49] <rant> well the condition you describe is OOM (Out Of Memory) and should say such in dmesg and show in a top or similar program. I like htop, its ncurses based and shows stats in real time with graphs, also most DE have something similar like gnome-system-monitor or mate-system-monitor
361[04:11:09] <rant> if a program is causing an OOM its usually do to a memory leak and is poor coding
362[04:11:16] <rant> or a bug or race condition
363[04:11:39] <rant> simply limiting its resources will not change this fact it merely will prevent it from locking the system up
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365[04:11:51] <rant> and will cause the program itself to become non-responsive more quickly
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367[04:12:46] <novilog> Yeah. I've triple checked my code for dynamic memory that I'm not deallocating. That's all I'm trying to do. Trying to prevent my system from locking up so I know it's not just taking a long time to process. It is a sufficiently computationally expensive algorithm, after all.
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370[04:14:25] <novilog> I guess either way it shouldn't be 00Ming... it does have a stack-like data structure, which is getting filled with "position" information on the order of 4^N terms
371[04:14:57] <novilog> I'll take another look at it I guess. Thanks for the sounding board, and sorry I got off-topic
372[04:15:04] <novilog> rant: Thanks for your help
373[04:15:41] *** Parts: novilog (~novilog@replaced-ip) ("Happy hacking #debians")
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383[04:36:04] <n4dir> !backport
384[04:37:29] <n4dir> looks like i can't speak to dpkg. Someone has a web-link how to build a deb package easily. Thanks
385[04:37:51] <dondelelcaro> dpkg: ssb
386[04:37:52] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
387[04:38:30] <n4dir> thanks, dondelelcaro
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389[04:39:56] <n4dir> doesn't help that much, as the package ain't in sid either. :-)
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423[05:12:44] <comet23> replaced-url
424[05:12:45] <comet23> =(
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427[05:13:48] <annadane> you are making a FrankenDebian
428[05:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1097
429[05:14:32] <annadane> and your system is quite possibly broken by now
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431[05:18:47] <comet23> =(
432[05:18:54] <comet23> this is wsl
433[05:18:56] <annadane> 1) why do you need perl 5.26 and 2) you should consider backing up and reinstalling at this point
434[05:19:12] <comet23> well i am unsure how wsl works
435[05:19:22] <comet23> but it lets me run headless linux on windows
436[05:19:36] <annadane> there's #debian-wsl on oftc
437[05:19:39] <comet23> like i can download debian from the microsoft store
438[05:19:40] <annadane> irc.oftc.net
439[05:20:14] <annadane> i have no idea what wsl does with their perl versions but if it works anything like debian stable your system is probably screwed
440[05:20:21] <annadane> ask there, though
441[05:20:38] <comet23> i don't either
442[05:20:42] <comet23> it doesn't work
443[05:20:44] <comet23> =(
444[05:20:53] <annadane> what doesn't work
445[05:21:04] <comet23> the os
446[05:21:09] <comet23> the headless os
447[05:21:13] <comet23> are you on windows?
448[05:21:21] <annadane> no, i'm on debian proper
449[05:21:28] <comet23> welp
450[05:21:47] <annadane> derivatives of debian generally aren't supported in this channel
451[05:21:54] <annadane> as i said, try #debian-wsl on irc.oftc.net
452[05:21:59] <comet23> ohhhhhhhhhhhh\
453[05:22:03] <comet23> thank you so much
454[05:22:12] <comet23> i didn't know that was a separate network
455[05:22:12] <comet23> how did you find that by the way?
456[05:22:21] <annadane> i did /msg dpkg wsl
457[05:22:22] <comet23> that channel and that network
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459[05:22:40] <comet23> that's really cool
460[05:22:43] <annadane> - dpkg is a bot in this channel which gives various information
461[05:22:49] <comet23> thank you so much
462[05:22:52] <comet23> what a useful bot
463[05:23:49] <annadane> i have no idea how wsl does it but the philosophy behind debian stable involves older but well tested packages and if you start installing newer stuff, you can end up bricking your system, but who knows what changes wsl introduces
464[05:24:18] <comet23> it's like a separate folder
465[05:24:23] <comet23> kinda like cygwin if you ever used that
466[05:24:24] <annadane> 5.26 is in testing/unstable and if you do that on a debian box you probably need to reinstall
467[05:24:29] <comet23> it keeps everything isolated
468[05:25:02] <comet23> well there are 6 whole people in that channel lol
469[05:25:37] <annadane> yeah. sorry.
470[05:25:39] <annadane> !they don't know
471[05:25:39] <dpkg> We're sorry your distro's channel isn't being helpful, but that doesn't make it appropriate to use #debian for non-Debian questions. Please go back to your channel and wait patiently for better help, or install Debian and party with us.
472[05:26:03] <annadane> but pabs is there and he's really smart so just idle a bit and someone will answer
473[05:26:27] <annadane> or uh, contact microsoft support i guess, but knowing microsoft and how useless THEY are...
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475[05:26:42] <comet23> how do you know pabs?
476[05:26:53] <annadane> he's relatively well known, he's a debian maintainer
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481[05:27:54] <comet23> what is the average iq of a debian maintainer?
482[05:28:02] <annadane> higher than mine
483[05:28:21] <comet23> i feel like i'm at least 40 points below the minimum threshold
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485[05:33:32] <annadane> i guess as general advice if you need a newer perl for something you should put it in a chroot
486[05:33:42] <annadane> or maybe there's some other software for multiple perl versions, i don't know
487[05:33:53] <annadane> what you *don't* do is apt install perl 5.26
488[05:33:58] <comet23> pabs is talking with me :)
489[05:34:03] <comet23> oh man i did that
490[05:34:07] <n4dir> perlbrew?
491[05:34:30] <comet23> i don't know what that is
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493[05:35:16] <n4dir> it is a way to install perl versions as user in the users home directory, iirc.
494[05:36:32] <comet23> i'm running debian on windows
495[05:36:46] <comet23> you can run linux on windows now, headless, but still :D
496[05:38:06] <n4dir> trying to build a deb package and getting errors. what was the name of the channel for folks who do it for the fun of it, not for the debian repos ?
497[05:38:16] <annadane> #packaging in oftc
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500[05:39:06] <n4dir> thanks.
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604[07:47:10] <martian67> hello i have a debian dev process question
605[07:47:11] <martian67> replaced-url
606[07:47:20] <martian67> why is this not in the arm64 repos yet? not built?
607[07:48:07] <martian67> its accepted, is there something else that needs to occur?
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613[07:50:59] <martian67> or rather, this package sorry replaced-url
614[07:51:09] <martian67> but i think its built from qtcase
615[07:51:42] <themill> ,v src:qtbase-opensource-src arm64
616[07:51:43] <judd> Package: src:qtbase-opensource-src on arm64 -- jessie: 5.3.2+dfsg-4+deb8u2; stretch: 5.7.1+dfsg-3; sid: 5.10.1+dfsg-5; sid-debug: 5.10.1+dfsg-5; sid: 5.10.1+dfsg-7; sid-debug: 5.10.1+dfsg-7; buster: 5.11.1+dfsg-7; sid: 5.11.1+dfsg-8; sid-debug: 5.11.1+dfsg-8
617[07:52:05] <martian67> all the repos have for sid is dfsg-7
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619[07:52:12] <themill> nope
620[07:52:15] <martian67> maybe my mirror is out of date?
621[07:52:19] <themill> it is in arm64; your mirror might be lagging behind.
622[07:52:43] <themill> There's a delay between source upload, buildd queue, building, upload of built .debs, inclusion of .debs into archive, pushing of new .debs to mirrors
623[07:52:59] <martian67> its been a day
624[07:53:00] <martian67> just seems strange
625[07:53:11] <themill> that can easily take several days
626[07:53:41] <themill> particularly on slow archs where the buildds take ages to compile things or whether there are few buildds available
627[07:54:39] <themill> (not the case here though, the build was included into sid 38 hours ago)
628[07:55:03] *** Quits: ledeni (~ledeni@replaced-ip) (Quit: ledeni)
629[07:55:05] <martian67> using replaced-url
630[07:55:20] <martian67> is there a mirror freshness tool you know off the top of your head?
631[07:55:34] <martian67> if not im sure i can find one
632[07:55:54] <themill> I have one on my laptop.... does that count?
633[07:56:07] <martian67> a mirror? what do you use a mac?
634[07:56:08] <martian67> :)
635[07:56:54] <themill> a mirror checking tool
636[07:57:01] <martian67> i know i was joking
637[07:57:24] <themill> Also, I see -8 in replaced-url
638[07:57:47] <martian67> so why is it not being fetched with dist-upgrade arg
639[07:57:47] <themill> (I would have a different view of the cdn than you, quite possibly)
640[07:57:59] <martian67> looking
641[07:58:05] <themill> !bar
642[07:58:05] <dpkg> rumour has it, bar is a <metasyntactic variable> in cahoots with <foo>, <baz> and <boo>.
643[07:58:07] <themill> !bat
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645[07:58:12] <themill> gah
646[07:58:14] <themill> stupid bot
647[07:58:18] <themill> dselect: bat
648[07:58:19] <dselect> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
649[07:58:22] <martian67> i also see 8
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652[07:59:37] <martian67> building a log
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660[08:06:03] <martian67> themill, replaced-url
661[08:06:22] <martian67> looks like it acknowledges 5.11.1+dfsg-8 exists
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663[08:06:34] <martian67> but its not being selected for reasons i dont understand
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666[08:09:07] <martian67> hmm why is buster/testing higher priority
667[08:09:19] <martian67> i guess thats the source of my problem but why?
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673[08:14:27] <themill> You have Default-Release set somewhere
674[08:14:33] *** Joins: MACscr|lappy (~MACscr|la@replaced-ip)
675[08:14:42] <themill> (or straight out pinning)
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679[08:17:48] <martian67> was indeed the problem thanks themill
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681[08:17:59] <martian67> i thought i was running sid apparently i wasnt, embarassing :(
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697[08:46:33] <atralheaven> hi, I still have the black screen problem with debian installer, setting vga options didn't help... what can I do? I just want a minimal debian setup on my laptop using the netinstall image
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700[08:49:44] <atralheaven> I have no idea what should I do
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708[08:59:54] <at0m> atralheaven: what gpu do you have on that laptop? any way to hook up an external monitor/tv to vga or hdmi?
709[09:00:44] <at0m> i imagine maybe it switches to some external display which isn't hooked up at all. hooking up something there would then give you a display
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711[09:03:19] <atralheaven> at0m: I have another monitor, I will try it. and the gpu is 1060
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716[09:08:37] <atralheaven> at0m: do I need to use an option for installer when the second display is connected?
717[09:09:26] <RoyK> probably vga=something
718[09:09:28] <at0m> atralheaven: if the installer mistakes and takes external instead of internal, you probably dont
719[09:09:54] <RoyK> just try first
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721[09:10:01] <at0m> yea that's easy
722[09:10:10] <atralheaven> I did, didn't work
723[09:10:55] <at0m> atralheaven: and no onboard intel? (my laptop has onboard intel gpu, and nvidia on top)
724[09:11:39] <atralheaven> I have onboard intel too, but there was no option for forcing the laptop to only use that
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726[09:14:10] <at0m> atralheaven: normally it doesn't use the nvidia unless you tell it to. onboard is default.
727[09:14:39] <atralheaven> yes, I don't understand what's wrong with it
728[09:14:43] <at0m> !bumblebee
729[09:14:43] <dpkg> The Bumblebee project aims to provide support for the Nvidia Optimus GPU switching technology on Linux systems. GeForce 400M (4xxM) and later mobile GPU series are Optimus-enabled; if «lspci -nn | grep '\''[030[02]\]'» returns two lines, the laptop likely uses Optimus. Packaged for Debian <jessie> and <wheezy-backports>. replaced-url
730[09:15:00] <at0m> so unless you ^, it will use the intel gpu
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732[09:16:33] <atralheaven> but how can I switch to intel before running the installer?
733[09:17:08] <at0m> atralheaven: such laptops usually default to intel, so nothing is needed to switch to the intel.
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737[09:18:42] <at0m> atralheaven: can you add "nomodeset" to grub's boot line?
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739[09:19:14] <at0m> if you do see grub at all, that is
740[09:19:18] <atralheaven> editing it with "e" and them
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742[09:19:21] <at0m> right
743[09:19:23] <atralheaven> then f10
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746[09:19:38] <atralheaven> I tried it many times, didn't help
747[09:19:40] <themill> use the text installer not the graphical one?
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749[09:20:08] <atralheaven> I tried them with text based installer too
750[09:20:10] <at0m> themill: does netinstall have graphical boot?
751[09:20:16] <themill> sure
752[09:20:17] <at0m> seems it does
753[09:20:39] <at0m> (i dont know, only using non-graphical ever)
754[09:21:02] <atralheaven> now I'm tweaking graphic drivers from windows, maybe something is being controlled from there
755[09:22:01] <at0m> < out for a bit
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761[09:31:59] <dnscat> Hello. I'd like to install a package that is only available in buster. currently I'm on stretch. What are my options?
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763[09:32:27] <jelly> dnscat: which package?
764[09:32:40] <dnscat> jelly: gcc-7
765[09:33:03] <jelly> that's going to be interesting to backport
766[09:33:15] <jelly> ,v gcc-7
767[09:33:16] <judd> Package: gcc-7 on amd64 -- buster: 7.3.0-29; sid: 7.3.0-29
768[09:33:19] <jelly> ,v gcc-8
769[09:33:20] <judd> Package: gcc-8 on amd64 -- buster: 8.2.0-5; sid: 8.2.0-6
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771[09:34:20] <dnscat> wait...
772[09:34:29] <dnscat> so it's been available already?
773[09:34:42] <jelly> ,checkbackport gcc-7
774[09:34:51] <themill> yeah, good luck with thtat
775[09:34:53] <jelly> only in buster and sid
776[09:34:56] <judd> Backporting package gcc-7 in sid→stretch/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: gcc-8-base, binutils:native (>= 2.30) | binutils-multiarch:native (>= 2.30), binutils-hppa64-linux-gnu:native (>= 2.30) [hppa amd64 i386 x32], nvptx-tools [amd64], gnat-7:native [!m32r !riscv64 !sh3 !sh3eb !sh4eb !m68k], g++-7:native, libmpc-dev (>= 1.1), g++-7-x86-64-linux-gnu [amd64] <cross>,
777[09:34:57] <judd> gobjc-7-x86-64-linux-gnu [amd64] <cross>, gfortran-7-x86-64-linux-gnu [amd64] <cross>, gdc-7-x86-64-linux-gnu [amd64] <cross>, gccgo-7-x86-64-linux-gnu [amd64] <cross>, gnat-7-x86-64-linux-gnu [amd64] <cross>.
778[09:35:05] <dnscat> yikes
779[09:35:06] <dnscat> okay
780[09:35:08] <dnscat> thank you
781[09:35:47] <dnscat> jelly: could I just upgrade to buster?
782[09:36:09] <jelly> you could use a separate container or chroot and do whatever you need to do in there
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790[09:39:39] <ralpheeee> where do i check the status of a package ie has it been requested to be inc in debian packages
791[09:42:06] <themill> !wnpp
792[09:42:06] <dpkg> For information on packages which are not in Debian but you think should be, check the Work-Needing and Prospective Packages list at replaced-url
793[09:42:50] <ralpheeee> thxs
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803[09:50:39] <jelly> dnscat: or sure, upgrade the whole system if that's its only purpose in life and you don't worry about other things breaking
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811[09:58:35] <ralpheeee> trying to file a bug report and receive the following "SMTP send failure: [Errno 101] Network is unreachable"...currently using a vpn ...do i need to deactive the vpn?
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820[10:06:25] <jelly> ralpheeee: you need to be able to connect to reportbug.debian.org:25 to or give reportbug options to send mail using some other outgoing mail server
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822[10:07:53] <jelly> dpkg: ping
823[10:07:53] <dpkg> pong
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846[10:20:27] <jelly> ralpheeee: you need to be able to connect to reportbug.debian.org:25 to or give reportbug options to send mail using some other outgoing mail server; if disabling vpn helps with that, then yes disable vpn temporarily
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849[10:22:36] <ralpheeee> on a side note i wish every distro inc "reportbug" darn efficient!
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857[10:32:06] <themill> or :587
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866[10:43:10] <purpleunicorn> hi
867[10:43:35] <klys> hi
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869[10:43:53] <purpleunicorn> i have 0 experience with linux except using ubuntu a little bit. I'm a newb i guess. Is it easier to use openbsd vs debian?
870[10:44:02] <purpleunicorn> how's it going klys
871[10:44:09] <klys> i'm well
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873[10:45:04] <purpleunicorn> im thinking about using gallium and then working my way up? Is anyone familiar with gallium
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875[10:45:33] <klys> as far as ubuntu goes, debian's cool. likely a fair bit cooler than bsd
876[10:46:11] <purpleunicorn> someone else has told me debian is a bit easier to use then openbsd
877[10:46:31] <purpleunicorn> is that true
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879[10:46:55] <klys> yeah and less error-prone; I've set up netbsd a couple months ago
880[10:47:41] <petn-randall> purpleunicorn: You'll only get a biased answer in a channel called #debian. :)
881[10:47:47] <purpleunicorn> lol
882[10:47:50] <purpleunicorn> i know petn-randall
883[10:47:55] <klys> debian is what I use all the time, true
884[10:49:00] <petn-randall> purpleunicorn: So it would be a bit more helpful if you'd ask about your specific use case, because everyone in here will find Debian easier, better, more secure, user-friendly, etc. than any other distro or OS.
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886[10:49:28] <purpleunicorn> what do most people use it for petn-randall
887[10:49:49] <klys> purpleunicorn, debian is a fair bit easier to use when you learn basic tools such as ls and mv
888[10:49:52] <purpleunicorn> big companies like google and microsoft?
889[10:50:56] <jelly> most people in here never talk, it's really hard to guess what they use the OS for
890[10:50:56] <klys> purpleunicorn, we may tend to use GOOG a fair bit more then MSFT.
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892[10:51:35] <petn-randall> purpleunicorn: For their laptop, desktop computer, their handheld, their mobile phone, their server, their PS3, their toaster. And I guess a few more cases I forgot to cover. :)
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894[10:53:11] <purpleunicorn> petn-randall i know that they use it for those machines but what do most people use it specifically for
895[10:53:24] <purpleunicorn> *devices
896[10:54:04] <petn-randall> purpleunicorn: What do you use your machines for?
897[10:54:19] <purpleunicorn> anything
898[10:54:31] <klys> purpleunicorn, I mostly use it for this kind of stuff, and some coding and browsing and music and exploratory other uses.
899[10:54:38] <purpleunicorn> im just saying for learning purposes why is it used?
900[10:54:44] <purpleunicorn> oh
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902[10:55:32] <purpleunicorn> the only thing i think of linux is people just use it because its more secure than windows os and mac os and more versatile
903[10:56:18] <petn-randall> purpleunicorn: I guess you answered your question then :)
904[10:56:45] <purpleunicorn> right..
905[10:56:50] <klys> you can still use your windows, if you boot linux over a serial line and run virt-manager via vnc...
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908[10:57:23] <purpleunicorn> what's a serial line klys
909[10:57:33] <kopper> klys: Is there any harder way to say "virtualize it"?
910[10:57:37] <klys> will link one from ebay
911[10:57:48] <kopper> Ah, not what you meant
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914[10:59:27] <klys> replaced-url
915[11:00:22] <petn-randall> That's a weird thing to want, and there are easier ways to run Windows on Linux ...
916[11:00:32] <klys> replaced-url
917[11:00:47] <purpleunicorn> what's a weird thing to want petn-randall
918[11:00:51] <klys> oh
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920[11:02:44] <petn-randall> purpleunicorn: Booting your Linux over a serial line, as klys suggested.
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924[11:05:35] <klys> purpleunicorn, here's the other part. replaced-url
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931[11:09:31] <jelly> purpleunicorn: linux (as in, the gnu/linux class of operating systems, not Android) is not really more secure than modern windows, it's just a lot less exposed. It's enjoying security by obscurity.
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934[11:10:37] <purpleunicorn> that's what i meant to say jelly
935[11:10:40] <purpleunicorn> i like that
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937[11:11:07] <purpleunicorn> in this day and age i feel like you have to know how to use linux anyways
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999[12:13:09] <oo_miguel> what underlying syscall does mkfifo use? pipe(2) seems only to create unnamed pipes, right?
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1012[12:25:06] <themill> oo_miguel: mknod
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1016[12:27:20] <oo_miguel> themill: ah thanks
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1033[12:41:22] <RA3OR> hi, is php 7.1 supported in debian ?
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1037[12:43:32] <themill> it's in buster at present but I assume it will not be by release time (replaced with php7.2)
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1039[12:44:52] <Voldenet> if you need some specific version, you can always compile it into /opt
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1042[12:48:22] <JustASlacker> we use survy with great success
1043[12:48:37] <JustASlacker> replaced-url
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1052[13:04:16] <hudo> hello, I like to write a logrotate script for a normal user. Is this possible ? Do I have to place the script in /etc/logrotate.d if it should run daily ?
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1056[13:07:18] <ayekat> I would probably write a systemd user service+timer and have it run logrotate with the config in $XDG_CONFIG_HOME/logrotate.d/…
1057[13:07:42] <Voldenet> hudo: I'd probably just write a regular perl script and run it with cron
1058[13:07:57] <Voldenet> there's no need to make it extremely sophisticated
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1060[13:10:26] <petn-randall> hudo: logrotate can rotate any kinds of scripts, not only those generated by root. The question is, what is producing the logs?
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1065[13:15:17] <hudo> a normal user1 starts a cronjob which writes into a logfile user1.log and I like to rotate this user1.log file
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1067[13:16:09] <hudo> the /etc/logrotate.d belongs to root, so ... what do i have to do ?
1068[13:16:47] <petn-randall> hudo: Do you want user1 to be able to configure it? Because if not, I'd just set it up like any other logrotate.
1069[13:17:21] <hudo> yes user1 should configure it
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1071[13:20:21] <FinalX> JustASlacker / RA3OR: Sury is also the head maintainer of PHP in Debian and Ubuntu, which is why we also make use of it. There's a trade-off in using an external repository for PHP though, you will have to keep your code up to date in shorter cycles (which is good in itself, but might be time consuming).. as security-wise you need to always run the latest version.
1072[13:21:15] <FinalX> JustASlacker / RA3OR: Plus he has a track record of updating the most recent version first, then Debian / Ubuntu LTS versions, and then sometimes a week later the rest of the (older) versions.. Like 7.2 was updated right away, as was Debian/Ubuntu, but 7.1 took a week longer to receive security updates.
1073[13:21:46] <FinalX> Use with care. If you stick with the original Debian PHP-version, you get security fixes in a decent timeframe without much worry about code not working.
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1079[13:27:50] <Fox> hudo: tell user to create the logrotate config, tell him to test it with logrorate -d /path/to/config then tell him to add a cronjob with crontab -e that executes /usr/sbin/logrotate -s /path/to/status/file /path/to/config anytime he wants
1080[13:28:11] <JustASlacker> FinalX: yeah, updating php is always fun
1081[13:29:00] <JustASlacker> its kinda hard to stick to debian only repositories if you need php71 or php72
1082[13:30:17] <FinalX> Yeah, we finally decided on two options here after toying around with many. You can use Debian stock and upgrade with Debian and have a major overhaul of your code then, or, you roll with Sury's packages and you make sure your crap is always up to date. Sury's packages will be forcibly upgraded without warning because security fixes aren't backported to the version you're using.. so.. choose :)
1083[13:30:28] <FinalX> Developers usually go for the second option, eagerly.. only some pick the first.
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1085[13:31:10] <petn-randall> Does PHP not follow semantic versioning?
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1089[13:31:54] <FinalX> yes; though it's a bit tricky with the packages of different sources
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1091[13:32:14] <FinalX> Dotdeb suddenly decided to no longer include something in the core package, but make a module package out of it, breaking things with a minor upgrade..
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1093[13:32:26] <FinalX> (without even mentioning it in the changelog)
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1095[13:33:05] <FinalX> Never had such an issue with Sury though, but he uses the same build scripts that he uses for Debian/Ubuntu's own packages.
1096[13:33:20] <FinalX> So never really any sudden surprises like that ;)
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1101[13:35:47] <uniqdom> Hello. I have a VPS in Digital Ocean. They provide a custom Debian system. I would like to reinstall Debian from a safe source, but they don't provide a way to upload an ISO to install an original Debian system. Do I have an option to achieve what I want?
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1103[13:37:21] <petn-randall> uniqdom: You'll have to ask digital ocean about that. Debian can only provide the source; you'll have to ask DO how to use them.
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1106[13:38:14] <petn-randall> uniqdom: But quite frankly, what are you trying to protect yourself from? You have to trust your provider, as they have access to the memory/disk of your VM at any point in time.
1107[13:38:18] <uniqdom> ok. If I use debootstrap, will I have to chroot always?
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1109[13:40:05] <uniqdom> petn-randall: yes I understand you. the thing is that the system had some things that doesn't come from Debian.
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1111[13:40:56] <petn-randall> uniqdom: You can deboostrap your instance, but I don't know if they boot that kernel or any custom one.
1112[13:41:34] <hudo> Fox, what is the /path/to/status/file ? What is this file ?
1113[13:41:48] <uniqdom> i.e I see the binary /opt/digitalocean/bin/do-agent, don't know what it does.
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1116[13:42:39] <beli3ver> Hello is there a way to use Debian with runit ?
1117[13:45:04] <JustASlacker> I guess you could have systemd start runint and have runit handle some services
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1119[13:45:29] <JustASlacker> replaced-url
1120[13:46:32] <beli3ver> And musl?
1121[13:46:38] <uniqdom> petn-randall: what kernel do you mean?
1122[13:47:16] <beli3ver> Found it thanks JustASlacker
1123[13:48:37] <ayekat> hudo: see -s, --state in logrotate(8)
1124[13:49:24] <ayekat> essentially you don't want logrotate to create a system-wide state file in /var/lib/…, but rather in a user-specific place (probably in the users' home)
1125[13:49:25] <hudo> if mylogfile is of size 186k and initially logrotate should work with size 50k , are then 3 files created ( mylogfile.1, mylogfile.2, mylogfile.3 ) and the actual mylogfile is of size 36k
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1127[13:49:59] <hudo> or will there be only mylogfile.1 created with size of 186k ?
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1138[13:56:54] <scraiht> hudo: I think that depends on your logrotate config
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1140[13:57:36] <FinalX> uniqdom: if they provide extra packages, that's probably to make things run smoothly or help you control it from the control panel better. you can always just stop their scripts / disable them instead of reinstalling. Debian packages are signed to begin with, so they can't easily be tampered with. You can also reinstall packages from a new source that you do trust.. but still. I wouldn't.
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1145[14:00:20] <scraiht> if you want your log rotated at 50k you configure "size 50k" in the config file for that log
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1148[14:00:55] <scraiht> but I do not think it will create 3 files if you rotate now the 186k one, it'll create one
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1151[14:02:22] <scraiht> size is only checked when logrotate runs, i.e. depends on the cron config
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1157[14:08:43] <Fox> hudo: logrotate stores the status of any logrotate config file wheb it's executed, if you don't specify ths file you'll use the default one, and it's not world writable, you'll get a permission denied
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1164[14:12:45] <uniqdom> Thanks FinalX.
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1169[14:15:03] <uniqdom> About debootstrap, I have always done chroot to the systems that I have installed. I wonder if you can boot directly to a system installed from debootstrap.
1170[14:15:54] <FinalX> no, you can't, because that's not a disk; plus you'd have to mount /proc /dev etc all in there, too.. it gets messy real fast
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1176[14:19:39] <n4dir> it can be on a disk, and you could install debian via debootstrap (some even do so).
1177[14:20:42] <FinalX> n4dir: talking about Digital Ocean VPS's here though :)
1178[14:20:47] <FinalX> bit harder to do
1179[14:20:48] <n4dir> ah, my fault.
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1188[14:29:20] <uniqdom> couldn't this guide be used? replaced-url
1189[14:29:27] <uniqdom> D.3.5. Install a Kernel
1190[14:29:31] <uniqdom> D.3.6. Set up the Boot Loader
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1215[15:02:15] <hudo> Fox, ayekat, got it , thank you
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1221[15:04:04] <muAdmDev> I altered the contens of /etc/php/7.0/fpm/conf.d (dir for additional .ini files), but the changes (adding and removing links) are not reflected in the output of phpinfo()
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1230[15:08:18] <abrotman> how are you running phpinfo?
1231[15:08:30] <tytan> Hello everyone, I'm doing some C programming on Debian 9 atm and I noticed a for (i = 0; i <= 1000000; i++) is faster than while (i <= 1000000) ... the binaries are the same size. Can you tell me why that is? I just used cc with no arguments and I'm on x86_64
1232[15:08:31] <muAdmDev> ok, finally, asked just one minute too early :)
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1235[15:09:55] <atsuko> is a dependency hell the sorta thing that just happens during dependency resolution that you need to work around somehow or the sorta thing that leaves your system broken and you have to fix it by purging stuff and whatnot?
1236[15:10:08] <atsuko> or is it both?
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1242[15:15:08] <spacedust> 356 updates :) lol yes i did break my system :) i added debian unstable repo to install wireguard
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1244[15:15:25] <spacedust> please make an exception and take wireguard out of unstable :)
1245[15:15:39] <Tom-_> tytan, how do you know it's faster?
1246[15:15:47] <spacedust> but i think i installed other stuff from that repo too
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1248[15:15:58] <tytan> Tom-_: I put "time" before executing the binary
1249[15:16:02] <spacedust> is there an easy way to visualize what you installed frmo what repo and see dependencies
1250[15:16:07] <spacedust> maybe fix it ? :)
1251[15:16:27] <dgp> tytan: disassemble it and see what the difference is
1252[15:16:32] <themill> spacedust: what did you mix?
1253[15:16:49] <tytan> dgp: I did with objdump -d and I see no difference
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1256[15:17:29] <spacedust> themill: the hell do i know ? :D
1257[15:17:35] <themill> you did it
1258[15:17:39] <spacedust> i did it :D
1259[15:17:45] <spacedust> i blew it :D
1260[15:17:57] <ksk> tytan: maybe a question for #c if there is one? does not sound debian specific to me
1261[15:18:06] <dgp> tytan: if the disassembly is the same then you are just getting different results
1262[15:18:17] <tytan> odd
1263[15:19:08] <dgp> if the instructions being run are the same then the binaries are essentially identical so it has to be something external to the binary
1264[15:19:44] <tytan> well it's not a big deal but I was curious why it is
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1266[15:23:28] <tytan> on my FreeBSD 11 setup they both run in identical times. I just go to #C to see if they know what's influencing the time. Thank you very much and have a nice day, everyone
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1273[15:26:24] <ksk> tytan: can you share your code? Im just curious and wanted to try it, but googleing "c for/while loop" and putting that into a programme I seem to have identical runtimes here.
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1276[15:27:51] <tytan> ksk give me a moment
1277[15:27:55] <ksk> sure :)
1278[15:27:58] <tytan> what's recommended? pastebin?
1279[15:28:10] <ksk> yeah. replaced-url
1280[15:28:14] <tytan> ok
1281[15:28:26] <FinalX> replaced-url
1282[15:28:28] <FinalX> rather
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1289[15:30:58] <ksk> yes indeed, my bad.
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1295[15:34:26] <tytan> ksk paste.debian.net/1042076/ paste.debian.net/1042078/
1296[15:34:39] <ksk> thanks, Ill give it a try.
1297[15:34:43] <tytan> ksk I have no copy paste in my st terminal yet so I needed to type it
1298[15:34:54] <tytan> ksk no, I have to thank you for your effort and time
1299[15:34:55] <ksk> tytan: apt-cache show pastebinit
1300[15:35:18] <ksk> you can then "cat foo | pastebinit" and it shows up on paste.debian.net (or others, you can configure it)
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1302[15:35:31] <tytan> nice 2 know
1303[15:36:55] <n4dir> i think pastebinit foo; is ok too.
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1305[15:38:22] <ksk> tytan: I wrote you a private message to keep this channel clean.
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1307[15:38:37] <deadman36g> Having trouble with fstab automounting a sshfs share. mount -a works but the share is not mounting on boot. Would like some help
1308[15:39:34] <ksk> deadman36g: might be related to network not being available? Is using a systemd service a valid alternative for you? there you could depend on network being configured.
1309[15:40:10] <deadman36g> I am using _netdev in my fstab entry is that different?
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1311[15:41:42] <ksk> I dont know about that, sorry. also man fstab does not seem to contain "netdev"
1312[15:41:44] <RoyK> deadman36g: that should help it wait for the network to activate before mounting it, so that's good
1313[15:42:10] <RoyK> ksk: add _netdev to the options column
1314[15:42:18] <RoyK> note the underscore
1315[15:42:49] <deadman36g> my entire entry is 'deadman36g@192.168.1.142:/Users/deadman36g /srv/mac fuse.sshfs defaults,reconnect,ServerAliveInterval=15,ServerAliveCountMax=3,user,idmap=user,_netdev 0 0'
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1324[15:48:23] <ksk> deadman36g: just a guess: nothing to see in syslog?
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1326[15:48:55] <ksk> also, /srv/mac is available at the time it wants to mount it?
1327[15:49:08] <ksk> s/wants/should/
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1334[15:51:49] <deadman36g> yes /srv/mac is the folder I created especially for mounting
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1337[15:51:56] <deadman36g> syslog I see Sep 13 08:45:45 openmediavault-test-machine systemd[1]: srv-feral.mount: Mount process exited, code=exited status=1
1338[15:51:56] <deadman36g> Sep 13 08:45:45 openmediavault-test-machine systemd[1]: srv-feral.mount: Unit entered failed state.
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1349[15:59:03] <deadman36g> is this helpful in troubleshooting?
1350[15:59:05] <deadman36g> root@openmediavault-test-machine:/srv/feral# systemctl status srv-feral.mount
1351[15:59:05] <deadman36g> Warning: srv-feral.mount changed on disk. Run 'systemctl daemon-reload' to reload units.
1352[15:59:06] <deadman36g> ● srv-feral.mount - /srv/feral
1353[15:59:06] <deadman36g> Loaded: loaded (/etc/fstab; generated; vendor preset: enabled)
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1357[15:59:56] <deadman36g> sorry for the flood, but is this helpful replaced-url
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1365[16:07:52] <queip> interesting
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1367[16:08:00] <queip> according to package "bmon", my network card is handling
1368[16:08:08] <queip> 120 Potassium packets per second
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1371[16:09:12] <RoyK> I didn't know you could transfer potassium over ethernet ;)
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1373[16:09:25] <queip> RoyK: that is strange indeed
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1399[16:27:18] <eugenmayer> how to find out if stretch supports replaced-url
1400[16:27:32] <greycat> ... by installing stretch and trying it?
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1402[16:28:39] <themill> Considering the code was merged after stretch was released, unlikely. systemd is in stretch-backports though
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1408[16:30:40] <jelly> oh wow, if this continues systemd will have almost all the useful features of daemontools in a couple years
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1410[16:32:45] <greycat> stretch's systemd.exec(5) has StandardInput= but I don't see StandardInputFile= in the man page
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1420[16:43:43] <eugenmayer> greycat: well beside i did try that, i was more interested on how i would track this back with a debian release
1421[16:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1154
1422[16:44:22] <greycat> You could try reading the buster man page to see if the documentation says that it's in buster. Or you could install buster and actually test it.
1423[16:44:29] <eugenmayer> themill: beside you have in mind the release dates, this might be not accurate if it was not this case. Is there any way to track back from a .deb package which commit it has been build in regularly ?
1424[16:44:34] <eugenmayer> (its just an interest question)
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1429[16:45:20] <greycat> The package's version number will typically tell you this, as far as you are ever going to get with a simple casual inspection.
1430[16:45:21] <themill> packages are normally built on release tarballs, so you see if that commit is in the tarball
1431[16:45:26] <eugenmayer> greycat: such a feature not described in the man page does not mean it does not exist i would say
1432[16:45:35] <greycat> Then try it and see.
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1436[16:46:02] <eugenmayer> how would i know which release tarball has been used for systemd?
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1438[16:46:07] <greycat> ,v systemd
1439[16:46:08] <judd> Package: systemd on amd64 -- wheezy: 44-11+deb7u4; wheezy-security: 44-11+deb7u5; jessie: 215-17+deb8u7; jessie-backports: 230-7~bpo8+2; stretch: 232-25+deb9u2; stretch-proposed-updates: 232-25+deb9u3; stretch-updates: 232-25+deb9u3; stretch-backports: 237-3~bpo9+1; buster: 239-8; sid: 239-9
1440[16:46:15] <greycat> stretch: 232-25+deb9u2
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1442[16:46:22] <eugenmayer> if i start here ? replaced-url
1443[16:46:26] <greycat> systemd upstream version 232
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1449[16:47:12] <eugenmayer> ok, upstream 232. sorry not sure what this is for now. Is this systemd upstream 2.3.2 or is this -dev232? what do i look for as a reference for that?
1450[16:47:30] <greycat> systemd version number 232
1451[16:48:00] <greycat> replaced-url
1452[16:48:04] <eugenmayer> ok in the case of replaced-url
1453[16:48:22] <eugenmayer> in general, how would i know what debian has been build from, at least which source SCM?
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1455[16:49:22] <greycat> by LOOKING AT THE VERSION NUMBER
1456[16:49:25] <greycat> ,v bash
1457[16:49:26] <judd> Package: bash on amd64 -- wheezy: 4.2+dfsg-0.1+deb7u3; wheezy-security: 4.2+dfsg-0.1+deb7u4; jessie: 4.3-11+deb8u1; stretch: 4.4-5; buster: 4.4.18-3.1; sid: 4.4.18-3.1; experimental: 5.0~alpha1-1
1458[16:49:31] <greycat> stretch: 4.4-5
1459[16:49:31] <LtL> I have stretch systemd version 232-25+deb9u4 but it's not listed as such in the factoid.
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1461[16:49:40] <eugenmayer> ok so maybe a better starting point would be replaced-url
1462[16:49:42] <greycat> upstream version number 4.4 debian packaging number 5
1463[16:49:54] <eugenmayer> so the source, here i find sreplaced-url
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1465[16:50:10] <greycat> LtL: judd's database may be out of sync
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1467[16:50:23] <eugenmayer> which leads me to replaced-url
1468[16:50:27] <LtL> greycat: thanks
1469[16:51:01] <eugenmayer> ok and here i can check for the build number, compare commit hashes and match against the history. Ok so debian sources seem to be the best guess
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1471[16:51:18] <eugenmayer> is it generally true that all debian builds are based on an scm mirror at replaced-url
1472[16:51:22] <eugenmayer> or is it case by case?
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1476[16:51:46] <greycat> The copyright file in /usr/share/doc/PKGNAME/copyright tells you where the upstream source came from/
1477[16:52:06] <greycat> in the case of /usr/share/doc/systemd/copyright it says Source: replaced-url
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1481[16:52:32] <eugenmayer> ah thanks, greycat
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1483[16:52:42] <eugenmayer> so the ultimate source is in the copyrights, makes sense
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1485[16:53:06] <eugenmayer> ok i think i got it. Thank your for outlining the way to track this down
1486[16:53:27] * themill has no idea what the question was having gone around that circle
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1494[16:56:40] <eugenmayer> themill: basically finding an commit / feature implemented in a upstream project and backtracking if it is included in the specific package of <debian-release>
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1496[16:57:45] <themill> Looking in the copyright file isn't going to tell you that. You'd look in the source package.
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1500[16:58:16] <eugenmayer> in this case, if the current systemd replaced-url
1501[16:58:47] <greycat> the copyright file tells where the source package came from, because apparently he is not willing to trust the man pages AND he's not willing to install the release in question AND he's not willing to just do "apt-get source systemd"
1502[16:58:54] <eugenmayer> github does not really offer tooling for "commit included in this tag" but i guess we all have our local tools for that
1503[16:59:21] <eugenmayer> greycat: your aggressiveness is at least to say "uncommon"
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1506[17:00:12] <greycat> your stubbornness and density are sadly common
1507[17:00:23] <eugenmayer> wow.
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1509[17:01:35] <themill> eugenmayer: if you have a tarball you can't find out if a git commit is included in it except by looking at the code that the commit would add
1510[17:02:12] <eugenmayer> themill: sure. But the source page includes the source SCM for that tarball and the name the reference tag, leads to the commit
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1512[17:02:21] <greycat> If you want to see the actual code of systemd used in stretch, the EASIEST way is to install stretch, make sure you have a deb-src line (which the installer adds by default), and run "apt-get source systemd" somewhere writable.
1513[17:02:35] <eugenmayer> themill: so i would admit that going the debain source page route is the most effective one
1514[17:02:50] <eugenmayer> greycat: stop it. Go play. or in your words, GO PLAY
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1516[17:03:03] <eugenmayer> do some sports, relaxe. Come back.
1517[17:03:06] <greycat> Stop what? Telling you how to get the answers you asked for?
1518[17:03:21] <greycat> That advice was on topic and polite.
1519[17:03:48] <greycat> But you're trolling, because you are not actually using Debian, so the advice that requires you to install Debian first is perceived as aggression.
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1521[17:04:17] <eugenmayer> You should read from time to time what people write greycat. you would have known, that i already tried and confirmed its not working. You would have imagined that i digged out the source page way myself. Beside you insist i neither tried it nor insist that i did not actually accept the way using apt source.
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1523[17:04:34] <eugenmayer> You are simply raging and i ask you to stop it. Thank you very much sir.
1524[17:04:50] <eugenmayer> Ah you know even know what i am using or not :)
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1526[17:06:27] <eugenmayer> this would explain all those odd repos as replaced-url
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1528[17:07:29] <themill> So, how about that cycling race...
1529[17:07:46] <annadane> not interesting, everyone's doping
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1576[17:33:08] <jelly> !qotd0
1577[17:33:08] <dpkg> <goccia> anyway : what it is most important to me is getting three times in a row a y/n question doing the libc6 install-dance and watching a stopping starting done daemon sequence ending in perfection: whoever has done this, i mean a three questions in a row, well is a great person
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1583[17:36:56] <annadane> i... what
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1587[17:37:34] <greycat> annadane: that's my reaction to basically everything that everyone says in IRC, all day long. :(
1588[17:38:24] <greycat> "Is this thing in stretch?" "Man page says no" "I don't trust the man page ..."
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1598[17:43:52] <eugenmayer> trying to solve a little myth here: In debian stretch without resolvconf installed this sequence should not propage the `dns-nameservers` settings from /etc/network/interfaces ( or interfaces.d/<> ) to /etc/resolv.conf right? : ifdown eth0 && ifup eth0 && invoke-rc.d networking force-reload
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1602[17:45:29] <eugenmayer> i have written an ncurses client to provision a debian box with then network settings and other things which runs on first login, but somehow, i have boxes which worked sucking up that setting into /etc/resolv.conf eventhough i simply made a mistake and forgetting about resolvconf .. did that change with stretch or are there cases where `dns-nameservers` is picked up by the core scripts?
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1604[17:46:52] <eugenmayer> i expect it should have just not worked consistently and thats it. Thats why its a myth, it worked on about 20 boxes .. then suddenly the next 3 broke in a series as expected
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1663[18:26:04] <ralpheeee> using compton and transparency effect...when i disbale franme opacity the frame / borders are present ....
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1712[19:07:30] <antto> am i the only one who has to "add custom display resolution auto-start script" so often? :~(
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1715[19:08:12] <greycat> Why would you need this, and why would you need to do it more than once?
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1718[19:08:52] <antto> i guess it's bad luck
1719[19:09:51] <antto> monitors+videocard combinations which don't wanna talk to each other, so debian has no idea what resolutions to offer
1720[19:10:11] <antto> and it offers some low "safe" option only
1721[19:10:14] <greycat> That sounds like defective hardware to me.
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1723[19:10:28] <antto> usually old computers
1724[19:10:41] <BCMM> was gonna say, that used to be the norm like 20 years ago
1725[19:10:45] <BCMM> on the other hand, monitor firmware updates are a thing now
1726[19:10:53] <BCMM> due to monitors being way too complex
1727[19:11:03] <BCMM> maybe check if there's one for you
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1729[19:11:29] <antto> the one today was some huge and heavy HP "workstation" with a fancy video port, where you plug a splitter cable that gives you two VGA ports
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1734[19:12:34] <trysten> i'm doing automatd install with d-i. I specified /dev/sda as the install disk but sometimes it detects the usb drive it's installing from as /dev/sda and the disk I intend to install to as /dev/sdb
1735[19:12:39] <antto> xrandr recognizes it as DVI, yet the splitter gives VGA
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1747[19:19:51] <BCMM> antto: is the fancy port dual-link DVI?
1748[19:20:33] <BCMM> Dual Link DVI-I can run two VGA monitors with just a dumb splitter cable
1749[19:20:50] <antto> the port on the computer looks similar to DVI, (has a ton of pins), and then the splitter cable we got gives two VGAs
1750[19:21:00] <antto> yeah, i guess something like that
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1752[19:21:11] <damarusama> hi there, I'm running debian
1753[19:21:24] <damarusama> trying to create a service
1754[19:21:34] <BCMM> antto: you can send the exact same VGA signals over DVI or D-SUB connectors
1755[19:21:58] <damarusama> replaced-url
1756[19:22:03] <damarusama> that's the file I created
1757[19:22:35] <damarusama> replaced-url
1758[19:22:43] <damarusama> that's the status I'm getting when trying to run it
1759[19:24:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1134
1760[19:24:21] <damarusama> and I see my error
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1773[19:33:15] <sambagirl> does debian work well with compiz fusion and mate today?
1774[19:34:37] <diogenes_> sambagirl, should
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1776[19:34:54] <sambagirl> thanks diogenes
1777[19:35:06] <jelly> does "compiz fusion" still exist?
1778[19:35:08] <Brigo> sambagirl, with mate definetively.
1779[19:35:24] <sambagirl> thanks brigo
1780[19:35:37] <sambagirl> just testing stuff out
1781[19:35:39] <sambagirl> thanks
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1783[19:37:09] <elios> I got this error lately "libavcodec-extra57 : Conflicts: libavcodec57 but 7:3.2.12-1~deb9u1 is to be installed". Any idea how to resolve this?
1784[19:37:20] <sambagirl> yes it does jelly
1785[19:38:25] <elios> ...when i try to update/upgrade.
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1789[19:40:55] <annadane> hmm i may try mate again
1790[19:40:59] <jelly> !bat
1791[19:40:59] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
1792[19:41:01] <annadane> i think i still prefer xfce in general
1793[19:41:30] <annadane> elios, follow !bat or just try it with aptitude, it can give you detailed information of what's holding stuff back
1794[19:41:31] <jelly> elios: ^ provide ALL the info, preferably in a single pastebin entry
1795[19:41:32] <diogenes_> xfce rocks for ever :)
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1798[19:42:09] <elios> stable main(all 3 of em), apt update upgrade autoclean.
1799[19:42:16] <annadane> desktops are pretty much the same no matter how you slice it anyway
1800[19:43:02] <elios> stable main, updates main, stable-updates main.
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1802[19:43:25] <elios> on 686-pae
1803[19:43:43] <annadane> i find aptitude usually solves problems faster than !bat
1804[19:43:53] <Tylertwo_> After updating firefox on the stable debian distro, I no longer have audio (also, my ad blocker stopped working, but I was able to reinstall via the web). Any ideas on what to do? Currently running iceweasel 60.2.0esr-1~deb9u2
1805[19:44:21] <elios> annadane: i don't have atitiude.
1806[19:44:30] <annadane> aptitud
1807[19:44:31] <annadane> e
1808[19:44:39] <elios> i don has
1809[19:44:41] <annadane> it can be installed
1810[19:45:01] <annadane> anyway, whatever, sorry, i'll let jelly take this
1811[19:45:39] <elios> i can't even update, also i don;t want to install attitude.
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1814[19:46:03] <elios> !bat
1815[19:46:04] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
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1822[19:49:57] <jelly> it's too late, you seem to already have attitude installed
1823[19:50:00] * jelly hides
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1825[19:51:15] <annadane> bat also doesn't really give all the information, i find it's better as a 2nd thing to try if it isn't clear from aptitude
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1827[19:53:03] <elios> apt remove solved it.
1828[19:53:16] <jelly> annadane: there's also the little issue of: if you have an inconsistent apt state you can't install anything, including aptitude
1829[19:53:18] <annadane> the only problem with aptitude is you specifically need to tell people "don't press y yet to accept its solution" which gets tiring
1830[19:53:24] <annadane> yeah, obviously
1831[19:55:23] <elios> $apt remove libavcodec57
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1834[19:55:47] <elios> just remove this crap. problem solved.
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1836[19:57:09] <annadane> sure, depending on your use case ...
1837[19:57:32] <greycat> I'm guessing "he used deb-multimedia".
1838[19:57:44] <jelly> we may never know (or care)
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1841[19:59:37] <elios> if you can read further up than 10 lines greycat, you clearly can see that i did not.
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1845[20:01:37] * greycat does a "/lastlog elios" and sees no URLs in which you provided the !bat information, so no, I cannot see that. Clearly or otherwise.
1846[20:02:01] <greycat> I see only a vague report of a problem involving a package that is involved in multimedia stuff.
1847[20:02:07] <elios> >>> stable main, updates main, stable-updates main.
1848[20:02:16] <greycat> noise.
1849[20:02:30] <elios> that's what i got in my apt/sources.list
1850[20:02:33] <annadane> also the package name is called APTITUDE.
1851[20:02:36] <annadane> let's get that established.
1852[20:02:40] <annadane> not "attitude".
1853[20:02:49] * annadane storms off
1854[20:02:59] <elios> i don't have that package i already told you two times now
1855[20:03:05] <annadane> yes, i can read
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1857[20:03:16] <elios> not sure tbh
1858[20:03:20] <greycat> That's fine, but that doesn't excuse your refusal to provide the information which was requested.
1859[20:03:30] <annadane> stop being rude in support channels
1860[20:03:31] <elios> what is this freakshow anyways?
1861[20:03:40] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o greycat
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1867[20:14:57] <jelly> what's the point of a support channel if we quiet the only person asking for support, be they unwilling to provide complete info, or not
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1870[20:16:15] <greycat> What's the point of asking for "support" if you're just going to refuse to provide any information, and then insult everyone who tries to help you?
1871[20:16:49] <greycat> He did cover two of the points on replaced-url
1872[20:17:31] <jelly> elios: next time, be precise and complete.
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1915[21:20:58] <bkeys> Could someone please post me an example sources.list so I can update to Debian Jessie
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1917[21:21:22] <greycat> !jessie sources.list
1918[21:21:22] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for Debian 8 "Jessie" has three lines: "deb replaced-url
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1922[21:24:44] <petn-randall> bkeys: What are you updating from?
1923[21:24:45] <jelly> bkeys: you can only update to jessie from jessie (or wheezy, but then you REALLY want to read jessie release notes first)
1924[21:25:03] <bkeys> It's devuan Jessie
1925[21:25:11] <greycat> ...
1926[21:25:20] <jelly> devuan is a derivative distro, they probably have different sources
1927[21:25:22] <bkeys> It's the only image that would work on this chromebook
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1929[21:25:37] <jelly> best ask in #devuan I guess
1930[21:25:45] <bkeys> How to migrate to Debian?
1931[21:25:55] <jelly> reinstall
1932[21:26:20] <jelly> I don't know of a simple and reliable way to migrate in place.
1933[21:26:44] <greycat> "The HP Chromebook 14 comes with Coreboot, a Free Software BIOS replacement, preinstalled.1 For security reasons the factory default settings of Coreboot allow you to run Google-signed images only. To install Debian (or any other non-Google-signed OS) you have to put your Chromebook into developer mode and enable boot from USB and boot legacy OSes first."
1934[21:26:57] <bkeys> This is the c201, I installed libreboot on it
1935[21:26:58] <jelly> there are differences in builds and dependencies that will probably bite you in the ass
1936[21:27:01] <bkeys> Asus c201
1937[21:27:03] <petn-randall> I agree. "crossgrading" has not been tested, and chances are it'll fail and you'll have to reinstall, anyway.
1938[21:27:24] <greycat> It's ARM?!
1939[21:27:28] <bkeys> Yep
1940[21:27:31] <greycat> replaced-url
1941[21:27:36] <jelly> you are however welcome to try installing starting from any linux, using the debootstrap method
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1943[21:27:48] <bkeys> greycat: Tried that, won't work
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1946[21:30:34] <usney> hello ardian
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1953[21:37:43] <n4dir> do i remember that correct: with backports enabled the command "apt-cache policy pkgname" would show a possible version in backports?
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1959[21:45:44] <bites> yes, all of the versions it has indexed.
1960[21:45:58] <n4dir> k, thanks.
1961[21:46:49] <usney> retro
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2025[22:48:59] <n4dir> !ssb
2026[22:49:42] <greycat> dpkg, simple sid backport
2027[22:49:42] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
2028[22:50:02] * greycat wonders why it didn't trigger...
2029[22:50:12] *** Quits: Nekojimi (~jimj316@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2030[22:50:23] <n4dir> doing /msg dpkg <whatever> ; doesn't work for me. wonders too ...
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2039[22:56:50] <n4dir> dpkg, uupdate
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2050[23:04:35] <Noldorin> md0 : active raid1 sdb1[2](S) sda1[0]
2051[23:04:41] <Noldorin> does that look like a correct raid1 setup?
2052[23:05:31] <at0m> dpkg: are you a bot
2053[23:05:32] <dpkg> I ain't no stinkin' bot. I am a finely tuned and hand crafted tool. Oh wait... I guess I am a bot (that you should not abuse).
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2055[23:06:31] <at0m> n4dir: works for me, /msg too. maybe dpkg put you on /ignore =)
2056[23:07:11] <n4dir> maybe, but i wouldn't know why. will just wait a few days. thanks.
2057[23:07:20] <at0m> that includes /msg dpkg ssb
2058[23:07:23] <at0m> ok
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2061[23:09:30] <n4dir> well: if you are able to help me find the reason, it would be great. But i don't know enough about the internals of irc or bots. It worked well, and stopped working yesterday (no upgrades, no changes in irc-client, etc)
2062[23:10:02] *** Quits: frostschutz (~frostschu@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2063[23:10:20] <at0m> n4dir: dpkg doesn't know what client you're on, it just listens to messages here and in query.
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2067[23:11:23] <n4dir> got you. just saying that no changes happened on my side (i did register and identify at oftc, but that doesn't seem to relate at all)
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2072[23:14:44] <at0m> n4dir: from /msg dpkg bots: "Most bots are also in #debian-bots if you can't use /msg to talk to them." or maybe ask in #debian-offtopic, some folks there who know more about these bots
2073[23:14:45] <annadane> dselect, are you a bot
2074[23:14:45] <dselect> I ain't no stinkin' bot. I am a finely tuned and hand crafted tool. Oh wait... I guess I am a bot (that you should not abuse).
2075[23:14:52] <annadane> can use that too i guess
2076[23:15:02] <annadane> or search the factoids on the website
2077[23:15:10] <annadane> dselect, search dpkg
2078[23:15:11] <dselect> You can search my database on the web at replaced-url
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2081[23:16:17] <n4dir> at0m: i will ask in #debian-bots, thanks for that tip. Found a workaround too: #debian-next.
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2086[23:22:40] <Kelsar> Noldorin: no, it does not
2087[23:23:03] <Noldorin> Kelsar, eek. how can I fix it?
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2089[23:23:10] <Noldorin> the resync seemed to be running fine before
2090[23:24:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1119
2091[23:24:11] <Kelsar> i can't look it up right now, but looks like it treats sdb1 as spare
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2095[23:25:35] <Noldorin> hrmm
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2106[23:37:33] <Noldorin> SerajewelKS, any ideas? :)
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