People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian
an IRC -Channel at freenode
(freenode IRC service closed
2021-06-01)
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2 [00:00:28] <abrotman> yes
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4 [00:00:46] <milkt> motes: there is testing support channel
#debian-next in irc.oftc.net
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8 [00:01:34] <jcb2016> abrotman: do you use it?
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10 [00:02:38] <Unit193> If #915298 isn't fixed, it
won't be part of Buster.
11 [00:02:50] <motes> I'll ask there
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13 [00:03:23] <jcb2016> Unit193: thats gdebi?
14 [00:03:27] <Unit193> jcb2016: Instead, perhaps you should use
sudo apt install ./thefile.deb
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16 [00:03:32] <Unit193> Yes, jcb2016.
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18 [00:03:47] <jcb2016> Unit193: i thought .deb was dpkg -i ?
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20 [00:04:09] <abrotman> jcb2016: I do not .. why?
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22 [00:04:16] <jcb2016> abrotman: just wondering
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24 [00:04:37] <motes> It seems that I have to be invited to join
that channel
25 [00:04:51] <Unit193> jcb2016: That's one way to do it,
but as you noticed it doesn't resolve dependancies so sometimes
you have to run `apt install -f` afterwards. `apt install
./file.deb` is newer and doesn't have the issue.
26 [00:04:51] <jcb2016> motes: are you on oftc.net ?
27 [00:05:44] <zegil> the oftc.net debian irc is dead :'(
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29 [00:06:22] <abrotman> zegil: not really
30 [00:07:05] <motes> I'm on freenode right now
31 [00:07:23] <jcb2016> motes: open a new connection and connect
to irc.oftc.net and join #debian-next
32 [00:07:33] <motes> OK
33 [00:07:42] <jcb2016> motes: im there right now. i don't
use buster. i just idle
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35 [00:09:08] <zegil> abrotman: Well last time I went on it was
pretty dead, meanwhile freenode is super active
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37 [00:09:19] <abrotman> different active times I'd say ..
38 [00:09:20] <zegil> abortman, is it just as active as
freenode?
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40 [00:09:25] <abrotman> plus, rant is noisy ...
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42 [00:09:38] <zegil> abrotman: yeah you're probably right,
I didn't go on many times
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78 [00:31:41] <kreyren>
replaced-url
79 [00:31:41] <kreyren> anbox, which is due to be installed in
the Debian FTP archive. -> Where is this FTP archive?
80 [00:31:55] <kreyren> Relevant:
replaced-url
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98 [00:42:54] <abrotman> kreyren: it's already in unstable
.. which version of Debian are you using?
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101 [00:44:05] <kreyren> Linux debian 4.19.0-2-amd64
(Testin-Buster)
102 [00:44:09] <kreyren> *Testing
103 [00:44:36] <abrotman> you can try to just grab the package,
or wait 2-10 day
104 [00:44:37] <abrotman> days
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107 [00:45:15] <kreyren> Can i use apt argument to get unstable
package? Or what is the most effective way to get one package from
sid?
108 [00:47:58] <kreyren> Trying .deb from
replaced-url
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111 [00:49:42] <ksk> kreyren: first of all, this channel supports
debian stable.
112 [00:49:47] <ksk> !tell kreyren about debian-next
113 [00:49:47] <kreyren> noted
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117 [00:50:36] <ksk> then, this package seems to have a rather
long list of dependencies - which most likely means you will need to
pull in newer versions of these, too. this way you will end up with
118 [00:50:40] <ksk> !frankendebian
119 [00:50:40] <dpkg> When you get random packages from random
repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and
derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone
can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and
#debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about
<reinstall>
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121 [00:51:08] <ksk> so Id strongly recomend against doing that
in the first place.
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124 [00:52:10] <kreyren> ksk: i'm used to running debian
sid, but i never tried frankendebian.
replaced-url
125 [00:52:18] <kreyren> assuming that i can ask here
126 [00:52:38] <ksk> I already tried to elaborate why this is not
sane.
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128 [00:53:18] <ksk> You could just use sid instead, dont expect
it not to break though.
129 [00:53:44] <somiaj> kreyren: that answer is not sane
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131 [00:54:07] <kreyren> noted, prefers buster since sid is too
unstable for my current usecase.. Any way to make a container of
anbox with required deps on debian?
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133 [00:54:13] <somiaj> kreyren: /msg dpkg ssb (this is my
reccomendation for installing software from sid in stable)
134 [00:54:14] <kreyren> in theory make custom snap?
135 [00:54:31] <somiaj> !don't break debian
136 [00:54:31] <kreyren> somiaj: using testing not stable
137 [00:54:31] <dpkg> [dont break debian]
replaced-url
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139 [00:54:44] <abrotman> kreyren: have you tried just grabbing
the package and trying to install it?
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141 [00:55:10] <ksk> ,v libc6
142 [00:55:11] <judd> Package: libc6 on amd64 -- wheezy:
2.13-38+deb7u10; wheezy-security: 2.13-38+deb7u12; jessie:
2.19-18+deb8u10; jessie-security: 2.19-18+deb8u10; stretch-security:
2.24-11+deb9u1; stretch: 2.24-11+deb9u4; sid: 2.28-5; buster: 2.28-7
143 [00:55:13] <kreyren> yep updated
replaced-url
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145 [00:55:43] <kreyren> or can i slot dependencies for anbox
like on gentoo?
146 [00:55:54] <kreyren> so that multiple versions of same dep is
installed?
147 [00:55:59] <somiaj> kreyren: mixing testing and sid can have
its usecase, but these questions are best asked in #debian-next on
irc.oftc.net. Right now I would be careful of mixing buster/sid due
to buster is frozen and being stablized.
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152 [00:57:09] <kreyren> asking on debian-next, ty for info
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184 [01:24:07] <storgance> ksk: sorry on the such late response,
thank you for your answer though!
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RussiaGate Coverage - ##replaced-url
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203 [01:51:01] <kreyren> How can i get this package on debian?
replaced-url
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210 [01:55:46] <Deihmos> during installation there is an option
to chose the kernel. what happens if i chose none how can i instal
my own kernell? I tried it in a vm but it was a fail
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##replaced-url
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##replaced-url
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304 [03:01:16] <p0a> Hello
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306 [03:01:30] <p0a> I have a question, should I install packages
from dpkg or should I install them from source?
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309 [03:04:25] <abrotman> why wouldn't you install them from
packages?
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311 [03:04:38] <abrotman> also, I feel like asking that question
means packages
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313 [03:04:53] <p0a> recent versions?
314 [03:05:05] <p0a> ubuntu has a lot of outdated stuff. maybe I
don't understand how repos work
315 [03:05:30] <abrotman> This isn't #ubuntu ... but who
cares if it's out of date (or stable) if it works and has the
features you need?
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318 [03:05:58] <p0a> I'm just talking about previous
experiences
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320 [03:06:18] <p0a> if it does have the features, sure
321 [03:06:22] <p0a> I guess I'll go with packages for now
322 [03:06:30] <p0a> I don't need much to be frank
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324 [03:07:46] <p0a> abrotman: just wanted to ask, I've done
this mistake in the past and it somehow messes up the system
325 [03:07:56] <p0a> abrotman: so I was wondering if there's
a safe way to do this... ?
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333 [03:12:14] <abrotman> p0a: use packages unless you have a
good reason
334 [03:12:15] <abrotman> !sns
335 [03:12:15] <dpkg> Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious
disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time
something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about
<backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than
upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>.
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338 [03:13:02] <mason> p0a: Older software has accumulated a
protective layer of dust, which makes it work better.
339 [03:13:23] <abrotman> eh, I don't know if I'd say
that
340 [03:13:37] <p0a> except for security patches
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343 [03:15:15] <Deihmos> how do you search the backports from
this channel again?
344 [03:16:06] *** Joins: WoC
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345 [03:16:46] <WoC> Does the amd OpenCL work in debian ? ( Found
out it's broken in ubuntu)
346 [03:17:09] <p0a> in what way is it broken?
347 [03:17:24] <Deihmos> the apps in debian repos are like 3
years old
348 [03:18:08] <p0a> well that's why I'm asking if I
can install selectively from source
349 [03:18:14] <p0a> there's a couple things I'd like
to have updated
350 [03:18:22] <p0a> I guess dependencies can mess with that
though
351 [03:18:38] <p0a> I'll try packages first and see if that
deprives me of anything
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353 [03:19:43] <Deihmos> my server runs like 5 apps. they are all
from the source
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361 [03:26:18] <p0a> How do I login as root? It complains about
me not being in the sudoers file
362 [03:26:47] <WoC> p0a trying to run a app that runs w/o issues
with nVidia GPU but wont with AMD GPU, seems like the OpenCL is
built wrong
363 [03:26:59] <p0a> okay, su -l
364 [03:27:22] <p0a> WoC: what's the error? Have you asked
in #ubuntu about it?
365 [03:28:03] <WoC> It's a AMD issue, so not a ubuntu issue
366 [03:28:26] <WoC> Anyhow, fixing to try Arch
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369 [03:29:05] <p0a> Why does `apt' ask me to enter a CD ?
370 [03:29:34] <p0a> If it's an AMD issue why would debian
or arch make a difference I wonder...
371 [03:29:57] <p0a> nevermind I see I have to comment out a line
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393 [03:47:54] <karlpinc> p0a: You probably installed from a CD
instead of using the recommended netinstall.
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398 [03:54:15] <p0a> karlpinc: yup
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401 [03:59:04] <dvs> time to comment out the CD and add the
online sources
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433 [04:21:32] <Deihmos>
replaced-url
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444 [04:31:22] *** Joins: fulltimeret4rd (5fdf16aa@replaced-ip )
445 [04:32:22] <fulltimeret4rd> hey, someone here with experience
of lvm2 in a ssd raid 1 ? Problem is the extremly poor write speed
of 10 MB/s (Samsung 840 Pro) - heres a bit more info
replaced-url
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448 [04:36:11] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: better use lsblk instead of
fdisk -l ;)
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450 [04:36:39] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: so u want that output :)?
451 [04:36:52] *** Parts: sanchaz (~sanchaz@replaced-ip ) ()
452 [04:36:53] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: can you pastebin output of
dmesg -T, lsblk and cat /proc/mdstat
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455 [04:37:28] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: sure, gimme a sec
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459 [04:38:21] <RoyK> lsblk is a wee bit easier to read than
fdisk -l
460 [04:40:18] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK:
replaced-url
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463 [04:42:00] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: my only intention at the
moment is that it has something to do with the ssd related issues
like trim and so on. the raid was created 2015 and is running since
then. in the /etc/lvm/lvm.conf i have the discard option enabled
464 [04:42:30] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: better use fstrim now and
then instead of mounting with trim
465 [04:42:54] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: and I'd suggest using
full disks instead of partitions when you don't need them
466 [04:43:36] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: that would be my next
question, do i need trim/fstrim enabled on the host system or is the
lvm discard enough?
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468 [04:44:28] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: btw im using the full disk
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470 [04:44:44] <RoyK> depends on whether the controller supports
UNMAP/TRIM
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472 [04:45:00] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: no, you're using
partitions on a lot on those ;)
473 [04:45:10] <RoyK> see lsblk output
474 [04:46:07] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: but again - I don't
think that's the issue
475 [04:46:49] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: ok, should i just set up
trim or fstrim ?
476 [04:47:06] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: but all of those messages
on sdc and sdd - no data - what is that?
477 [04:47:18] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: dont know
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480 [04:47:31] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: maybe the problem starts
there
481 [04:47:39] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: which debian version is
this? which kernel?
482 [04:47:53] <RoyK> something seems dodgy there
483 [04:48:05] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: root@proxmox2:~# uname -r
4.15.18-10-pve root@proxmox2:~# cat /etc/debian_version 9.8
484 [04:48:18] <mason> proooooxxxxx...... mooooooooxxxxx.....
485 [04:48:29] <mason> Which is to say, not Debian.
486 [04:48:59] <fulltimeret4rd> true, but this issue has nothing
to do with prxmx
487 [04:49:47] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: 4.15 isn't in stable
488 [04:51:01] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: any SID fishing going on?
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490 [04:51:48] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: btw,
replaced-url
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493 [04:52:38] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: what do u mean by sid
fishing?
494 [04:53:00] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: where did the kernel
package come from?
495 [04:53:19] <mason> RoyK: From proxmox, presumably.
496 [04:53:19] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: apt source?
497 [04:53:26] *** Quits: mezan (~sodre@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.4)
498 [04:53:45] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: deb
replaced-url
499 [04:54:06] <RoyK> ok - anyway
500 [04:54:40] <RoyK> something is strange with those two drives
or the interconnects
501 [04:55:05] <fulltimeret4rd> look at 23:2x
502 [04:55:21] <fulltimeret4rd> where i dd write a 1 Gig file
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504 [04:55:41] <RoyK> and it's peculiar that it's no
messages there - just the device name
505 [04:55:45] <RoyK> never seen that
506 [04:57:27] *** Quits: fekir (~fekir@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
507 [04:57:40] <fulltimeret4rd> how would u describe that in 3
words (for a googlesearch)
508 [04:57:48] <fulltimeret4rd> the dmesg bug
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510 [04:58:17] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: are all of those disks
connected to the same controller?
511 [04:58:27] <fulltimeret4rd> same sata controller
512 [04:58:40] *** Quits: ExoUNX (~ExoUNX@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
513 [04:58:44] <fulltimeret4rd> its an asus board with haswell
chipset
514 [04:59:15] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: I just don't get it
that you don't get any messages in dmesg and only the device
names
515 [04:59:45] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: ye i just searched the web
but cannot find anything to that
516 [05:00:02] *** Joins: fekir (~fekir@replaced-ip )
517 [05:00:11] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: can you try an official
kernel from debian?
518 [05:00:18] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: just to see if something
changes
519 [05:00:48] <fulltimeret4rd> i will if im in the office
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523 [05:01:43] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: check smartctl -a for those
disks too
524 [05:02:36] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: cant do anything with the
raid at the moment cause the vpn is running on one of those ssds -
if i write for example 1 GIG to that raid, all vms on it instantly
crash and ofc my connection interrupts
525 [05:03:20] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: smartctl doesn't
generate any i/o traffic unless you give it -t
526 [05:04:14] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK:
replaced-url
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528 [05:05:16] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: looks good - what sort of
fs do you have on top?
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530 [05:07:25] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: not sure what u mean, wasnt
set up by me, its an raid 1 with one lvm2 on it - running only
idleing debian servers...
531 [05:08:21] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: ext4? xfs? jfs? btrfs?
532 [05:08:34] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: DOS
533 [05:09:04] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: so basically RAW, in fstab
this lvm2 is mounted with the option EXT4,
534 [05:09:48] *** Quits: NeoBlaster (N3oBl@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
535 [05:10:11] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: sorry its mounted with the
ext3 option: "/dev/mapper/pve-data /opt/data ext3 defaults 0
2"
536 [05:10:15] *** Quits: we6jbo (~we6jbo@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
537 [05:10:39] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: ok - ext3 isn't
recommended anymore - it's 10+ years old
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539 [05:10:49] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: better convert that to ext4
540 [05:11:07] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: and run fstrim on the fs
after converting
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543 [05:11:26] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: perhaps fstrim supports
ext3 also - dunno
544 [05:11:30] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: true, but it isnt ext3
right? u saw the fdisk from the pastebin
545 [05:12:17] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: thats the problem for me at
the moment - dunno anything about lvm
546 [05:12:22] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: run mount - check what it
says
547 [05:12:38] <RoyK> I really doubt this is related to lvm
548 [05:12:57] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: "/dev/mapper/pve-data
on /opt/data type ext3 (rw,relatime,data=ordered)"
549 [05:13:39] <RoyK> just don't use ext3 unless you have a
very good reason to it, which I really can't picture
550 [05:14:22] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: is this system an old
system upgraded from an older thing?
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552 [05:15:08] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: i get u, but that shouldnt
downgrade ssd performance to 10 MB/s, yes we recently upgraded the
system from kernel 3.2.0-4-amd64
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555 [05:15:47] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: but the thing is we dont
know if the problem was there before
556 [05:15:50] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: seems fstrim supports ext3
557 [05:16:07] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: at least what I can read
after a few google searches
558 [05:16:27] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: so should i just install it
and run it once?
559 [05:16:40] <RoyK> should work
560 [05:16:50] <RoyK> and cron it to run weekly or something
561 [05:16:58] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: is the filesystem full?
562 [05:17:56] <RoyK> full filesystems, especially old stuff like
ext3, get very fragmented when full
563 [05:18:24] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: like i said:
pastebin.com/rzH1PKBR
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565 [05:18:37] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: i dont get the alloc and
used thing
566 [05:19:31] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: there are thick provisioned
vms in total of around 250 GB, the actual used space is 100GB but
lvm says its used to 98%
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568 [05:21:27] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: that doesn't show the
fill of the filesystems
569 [05:22:23] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: a df -h says
"/dev/mapper/pve-data Size 443G Used 108G Aviable332G 25%
/opt/data
570 [05:22:39] <RoyK> that's not the filesystem
571 [05:22:45] <RoyK> oh
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573 [05:22:47] <RoyK> yes
574 [05:22:49] <RoyK> sorry
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577 [05:23:04] <RoyK> anyway - try to run fstrim first
578 [05:23:08] <RoyK> then change to ext4
579 [05:23:43] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: u know roundabout how long
this will take for a 840 pro 500GB ?
580 [05:24:00] <RoyK> a few minutes at most
581 [05:24:09] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: k, thanks
582 [05:24:12] <RoyK> probably far less
583 [05:24:59] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: fstrim -a?
584 [05:25:11] <RoyK> fstrim /mountpoint
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586 [05:25:21] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: ok
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708 [05:26:50] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: fstrim is not even in my
repos...
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713 [05:28:24] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: it should be in util-linux
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716 [05:28:35] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: which should be installed
already
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718 [05:28:54] <phazon> fulltimeret4rd: it is part of the
'essential' pkg set; you definitely have it
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722 [05:30:13] <phazon> it's under /sbin, which isn't
in the default $PATH for most users
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725 [05:31:36] <RoyK> phazon: it's in path if you do
something like 'sudo -i' or 'su -'
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728 [05:32:18] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: its running with I/O 98.81
% fstrim /opt/data
729 [05:32:51] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: that's good
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732 [05:33:08] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: and no crashes so far :)
733 [05:33:20] *** Quits: Guest28393 (~Blue@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
734 [05:33:21] <RoyK> which is also good :)
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737 [05:36:25] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: 1073741824 Bytes (1,1 GB,
1,0 GiB) copied, 9,2763 s, 116 MB/s
738 [05:36:31] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: i love u
739 [05:36:36] *** Joins: v01d4lph4 (~v01d4lph4@replaced-ip )
740 [05:36:56] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: not perfect speeds but
atleast something to work on
741 [05:37:34] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: not sure if I want to kiss
you, but thank you <3
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743 [05:38:09] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: but better change that to
ext4 - it's far better for large files
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745 [05:38:18] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: i will for sure
746 [05:38:37] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: but need to be in range to
the server if i do that
747 [05:39:29] <RoyK> yes, and make a backup first
748 [05:39:48] <RoyK> that is - always keep a backup, regardless
of redundancy
749 [05:40:01] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: so basically, unmount,
convert, remount
750 [05:40:09] <RoyK> yes
751 [05:40:23] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: nothing special to take
care about in a raid?
752 [05:40:36] <RoyK> or perhaps better - backup, create ext4 and
restore
753 [05:40:55] <RoyK> since the newer versions of ext4 has things
that can't be migrated
754 [05:41:10] <RoyK> about the raid, none
755 [05:41:37] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: i think i will do a fresh
ext4 like u said
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758 [05:41:53] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: I'd recommend that if
you have the time
759 [05:42:24] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: or even - use xfs
760 [05:42:39] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: thats what i wanted to ask
761 [05:42:43] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: but that wouldn't be
necessary for such a small filesystem
762 [05:43:01] <RoyK> ext4 is well tested and works
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764 [05:43:14] <RoyK> xfs is better for bigger filesystems
765 [05:43:32] <RoyK> redhat/centos uses xfs for everything these
days
766 [05:43:47] <RoyK> I stick to ext4 for small things and use
xfs for large things
767 [05:43:57] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: i red something about ZFS,
it should be better for a proxmox vm storage in case of snapshotting
etc,
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770 [05:44:23] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: zfs rocks, really -
I've been working with it for 10 years or so
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774 [05:45:29] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: but I don't usually
recommend it, since it's not in the official repos, that is,
what's in the official repos is the FUSE thing, which
isn't too good
775 [05:45:45] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: the thing is i have to read
like 2 days at the moment, cause im new to that proxmox thing...
everyone is telling something else - LVM, ThinLVM or ZFS
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777 [05:46:25] <RoyK> better use ZFS, then
778 [05:46:38] <RoyK> and toss in an SSD or two for caching
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780 [05:46:57] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: ok one more thing, i forget
why but shouldn i switch to GPT too? even its only 500gig
781 [05:47:00] <RoyK> that is - for the rotational rust
782 [05:47:17] <RoyK> no need for a partition table with mdraid
783 [05:47:28] <RoyK> with zfs, it'll create GPT for you
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785 [05:47:49] <RoyK> but zero out the partition table if you
want zfs
786 [05:48:05] <RoyK> something like dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdX
bs=1M count=1
787 [05:48:46] <RoyK> make sure it's the right device ;)
788 [05:49:32] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: ok, thanks a lot mate!
789 [05:49:42] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: np :)
790 [05:50:02] <RoyK> fulltimeret4rd: btw, where're you
from?
791 [05:50:09] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: .de
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793 [05:50:18] <RoyK> .no
794 [05:50:31] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: norway? :D
795 [05:50:37] <RoyK> oslo
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797 [05:50:59] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: Well not as fast as
Stockholm i guess :D
798 [05:51:18] <RoyK> hm?
799 [05:51:42] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: scandinavian internet
rumors, nevermind :D
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801 [05:51:55] <RoyK> where in .de?
802 [05:52:48] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: ye, our tech websites
always stunned about infratructure in for example sweden
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804 [05:53:25] <fulltimeret4rd> RoyK: in germany almost high
dense country with the worst bandwidht
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959 [06:07:39] <echeveria> when rebooting into memtest86 from
debian stable, I'm seeing no video output on most of my
machines. serial isn't an option, is there any fallback video
modes I'm missing?
960 [06:08:07] <echeveria> it works on an Intel NUC, doesn't
work on a Thinkpad X1C6.
961 [06:09:07] <echeveria> it seems to actually boot (beeps,
etc), but no output
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964 [06:10:19] <tarzeau> echeveria: try user space memtester?
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966 [06:10:37] <tarzeau> that also allows you to check GPU memory
(using metestCL, not officially in debian though)
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968 [06:10:46] <tarzeau> ok NUCs don't usually have nvidia
gpus right?
969 [06:11:16] <tarzeau> echeveria: i've had similar
problems, and non-x86 computers with the need to test memory
(solaris/linux on sparc/usparc) , 10 years ago
970 [06:11:22] <echeveria> it's an i5 NUC using the on CPU
graphics. the thinkpad is similar in hardware, other than the
resolution.
971 [06:11:26] <tarzeau> i gave up on the bios memtest86(+)
972 [06:11:48] <tarzeau> simply it's also slow on very large
memory systems (512 GB-1.5 TB)
973 [06:11:59] <echeveria> userspace memtester works fine, but
it'd be nice to have the full one. I have to think it's
something about the way it's passing video modes or something.
974 [06:12:02] <tarzeau> and memtester allows you to split it in
parts, run several areas in parallel
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976 [06:12:34] <tarzeau> full? you want to be able spot the right
faulty memory module
977 [06:12:51] <tarzeau> it doesn't matter if it's a
full one or not. you only want to get the thing fixed, no?
978 [06:13:25] <tarzeau> and you run it because you run into
problems or because you're bored?
979 [06:13:48] <echeveria> I'm trying to absolutely rule out
memory corruption for causing checksum errors in a ZFS set.
memtester in userland for ~24 hours passes.
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981 [06:14:13] <tarzeau> echeveria: and you test all your memory?
then it's not your memory
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983 [06:14:33] <tarzeau> do you have radiation or other radio
stuff near the computer?
984 [06:14:48] <tarzeau> how often do you get checksum errors?
985 [06:15:01] <tarzeau> isn't nuc the cheap intel low power
hardware?
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987 [06:16:10] <echeveria> it only runs on the NUC. it
doesn't run on a thinkpad, or a fairly well specced server.
short of replacing the HBA card in it, there's not a lot else
that could be causing tens of checksum errors a day in ZFS.
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991 [06:16:38] <echeveria> yeah, I need to replace the memory
with ECC, but in the mean time I'm very curious to find the
root cause.
992 [06:16:58] <tarzeau> echeveria: and zfs with debian and
linux, versions?
993 [06:17:27] <tarzeau> echeveria: so on the NUC you don't
have checksum errors, but on the thinkpad you do?
994 [06:17:46] <tarzeau> and it's not the disks?
995 [06:18:46] <echeveria> no. NUC boots into memtest86. thinkpad
boots to a black screen. server boots to a black screen. both
devices failing have very different graphics outputs (Intel i7M, AMD
RYZEN).
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997 [06:19:59] <echeveria> I suspect this is something to do with
EFI, but doesn't sound like there's anything obvious
I'm not doing.
998 [06:20:16] <tarzeau> echeveria: and you tried both memtest86
and memtest86+ ?
999 [06:20:19] <echeveria> yup.
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1002 [06:20:45] <tarzeau> echeveria: consult upstream or debian
via
replaced-url
1003 [06:21:29] <tarzeau> echeveria: my report from 2006:
replaced-url
1004 [06:21:30] <judd> Bug
replaced-url
1005 [06:21:47] <tarzeau> echeveria: get the source and have fun
debugging :)
1006 [06:22:13] <tarzeau> your best chance. if user space
memtester does not show errors, i'd saychance is 99% memtest86*
won't find one either
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1014 [06:34:03] <echeveria> will file.
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1024 [06:49:53] <agio> hi, does anyone know if the certbot package
in repo's is considered new enough? or is it better to use a
newer version from certbot.org directly?
1025 [06:50:25] <agio> specifically I mean Version:
0.28.0-1~deb9u1 (from stretch archive)
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1028 [06:53:06] <Unit193> The only version problems I see are
reported in bug #888703, which indicate 0.10 is too old and 0.21 is
needed, which 0.28 most certainly covers.
1029 [06:53:07] <judd> Bug
replaced-url
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1033 [06:56:00] <agio> thanks yes, the backports version
doesn't seem too much newer either, it's: 0.28.0-1~bpo9+1
1034 [06:56:53] <agio> so it looks like its still the same
upstream code, and may in fact contain no other updates ?
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1039 [07:01:51] <fling> jmcnaught: Dark-Jedi: is it fine to just
remove iceweasel and install firefox?
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1051 [07:06:43] <fling> I switched all the sid to buster a while
ago and still no issues!
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1054 [07:08:54] <storgance> Holy moly
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1176 [08:40:40] <agio> hi, does any know how I can find out about
the polkit bug in the context of debians apt repo's? i.e. what
the bug is, which packages version are vulnerable, which are fixed
etc?
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1274 [09:38:14] <KOJIbKA> Hi all using Stretch with Gnome
installed on old Toshiba notebook I can't copy anything -
neither file nor text by Ctrl+C shortcut key. The whole system logs
off and Gnome session is terminated as I copy anything with this
shortcut. Why is that and how to change default keyboard behavior to
avoid it?
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1276 [09:39:53] <fling> KOJIbKA: how do you login? gdm?
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1278 [09:40:07] <KOJIbKA> fling: yes
1279 [09:41:31] <KOJIbKA> And upon applying the keyboard shortcut
I got reversed to it
1280 [09:42:07] <KOJIbKA> Is it a bug?
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1312 [10:08:36] <fling> KOJIbKA: anything interesting in gdm log?
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1314 [10:09:29] <KOJIbKA> fling: how to figure it out?
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1324 [10:13:41] <KOJIbKA> fling: well it's empty
1325 [10:14:05] <KOJIbKA> I mean the log file is not present
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1328 [10:14:25] <fling> KOJIbKA: try enabling it
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1425 [11:01:39] <plantroon> I locked the password of root account
(via passwd -l root) and now I can't use key-based
authentication. What the .. :(
1426 [11:02:04] <plantroon> has this happened to anybody yet?
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1428 [11:02:57] <blackflow> plantroon: that's normal. ssh
won't allow login to locked accounts. I _think_ it's PAM
related, not sure
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1432 [11:04:28] <plantroon> single user mode doesn't work
either :( neither via single init=/bin/sh, nor systemd rescue or
emergency mode :(
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1436 [11:05:24] <petn-randall> plantroon: Why would init=/bin/sh
not work?
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1438 [11:05:45] <petn-randall> That completely bypasses any PAM.
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1441 [11:06:18] <plantroon> says cannot open access to console the
root access is locked
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1448 [11:07:29] <petn-randall> plantroon: What OS release are you
running?
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1450 [11:07:40] <plantroon> stretch
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1457 [11:12:45] <blackflow> I wonder why people think locking out
root like that makes any sense. Wanna disallow root login over ssh?
Use AllowUsers or AllowGroups to specifically allow your sudoer to
login (which then denies all else). do not disallow root login on
the console unless you want grief like this.
1458 [11:13:09] <blackflow> (hell, use PermitRootLogin directive
too! it has a nice "without-password" option too)
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1480 [11:22:45] <plantroon> from man passwd -l: Note that this
does not disable the account. The user may still be able to login
using another authentication token (e.g. an SSH key).
1481 [11:22:53] <plantroon> I dunno :(
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1486 [11:25:13] <blackflow> plantroon: disable PAM and try
(UsePAM=no)
1487 [11:25:40] <blackflow> as a test. it's PAM doing this.
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1489 [11:26:32] <plantroon> actually PAM is disabled if I remember
correctly
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1491 [11:26:56] <plantroon> I have no access to the server. Single
user mode doesn't work, ssh doesn't work :D I'll have
to use a rescue USB
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1493 [11:27:27] <blackflow> plantroon: please define
"doesn't work"
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1498 [11:28:59] <plantroon> when I boot with the following
parameters: single init=/bin/sh, it says "cannot open access to
console the root access is locked "
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1500 [11:31:34] <blackflow> hrm....
replaced-url
1501 [11:31:35] <judd> Bug
replaced-url
1502 [11:32:29] <blackflow> but that's for the rescue
service. for bin/sh init... I suppose it's still trying to open
the tty and something something PAM and poof you're done. like
I said, lots of grief, zero gain when locking root account...
1503 [11:33:02] <blackflow> (done = cooked, goof'd, no dice)
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1505 [11:33:39] <plantroon> I see that now xD but generally I have
no need to set root pw on any machines. If things go wrong, I just
redeploy
1506 [11:33:56] <blackflow> then redeploy this :)
1507 [11:34:14] <plantroon> yeah that's what I'll do it
seems
1508 [11:34:25] <plantroon> but I wanted to go through this
learning experience
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1510 [11:35:31] <blackflow> ubuntu locks out root by default. one
of dumbest advices and default configs a FOSS distro could do, in
the past 30 years.
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1514 [11:35:58] <plantroon> why ? :(
1515 [11:36:04] <blackflow> unfortunately that spread like fire in
a papermill and people picking up the advice even unrelated to
ubuntu
1516 [11:36:07] <plantroon> I actually like having a separate
admin user
1517 [11:36:19] <blackflow> separate admin user has nothing to do
with locking root
1518 [11:36:33] <plantroon> but that's what ubuntu does, no?
It gives another user sudo rights
1519 [11:36:35] <blackflow> I do separate admin user. but root
always has a pass I can `su -l` to if needed, or login via console.
1520 [11:36:44] <blackflow> locking root has ZERO security gain
1521 [11:36:53] <plantroon> true
1522 [11:36:55] <blackflow> non-root login into sudoer has
MARGINAL security gain
1523 [11:37:39] <blackflow> plantroon: well see that's the
problem. not all subsystems of a GNU/Linux distro will care about
sudo
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1527 [11:37:56] <blackflow> infact, sudo is ONLY (ONLY!) relevant
for interactive command line
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1533 [11:39:57] <koollman> blackflow: I don't consider it a
bad decision, but it's usually badly implemented, like
single-mode not testing correctly for root locked-out account
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1535 [11:40:52] <blackflow> koollman: unless you encrypt the
disks, total inability to log in as root has ZERO benefit.
1536 [11:41:18] <koollman> that's just too strongly absolute
statement to be true :)
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1538 [11:42:03] <koollman> if you don't encrypt the disk,
putting a password on root isn't very useful either, so ... :)
1539 [11:42:18] <blackflow> it's not. again, using a non-root
administrative sudoer does not conflict with root having A password
set
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1541 [11:42:37] <Haxxa> I moved my Debian Server to the alcohol
cupboard, seems like a fitting place for it. Now when I have a HDD
Fail I have the perfect solution ;)
replaced-url
1542 [11:42:38] <blackflow> name one vector where locking out root
helps in any meaningufl way
1543 [11:42:59] <blackflow> with remote access, you can disable
root login with other means. with console access, if the attacker is
at your console, it's game over.
1544 [11:43:09] <plantroon> even if you do encrypt the disk, the
password on root has no point imo :D :D
1545 [11:43:10] <koollman> blackflow: one less password that can
be found if it leaks out
1546 [11:43:17] <blackflow> wants access to the drives? boots into
USB, mounts disks (hence the "if not FDE") and does
whatever.
1547 [11:43:33] <koollman> I mean, I do set passwords for root,
but just because I don't have another decent alternative
currently
1548 [11:43:37] <blackflow> koollman: that's not attack
vector
1549 [11:43:40] <koollman> they are hard and unique
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1552 [11:44:43] <blackflow> Haxxa: you've got one big flaw
there. instead of being chilled, your booze is now lukewarm
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1554 [11:45:21] <blackflow> koollman: strong root password solves
all those things you mentioned. going one step further and locking
it? solves nothing.
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1556 [11:45:58] <blackflow> I'll correct myself: it solves
the lazy admin's getting-out-of-bed-blocker aka "haz to
think about and set a root pass too!"
1557 [11:46:06] <koollman> blackflow: it is functionnaly
equivalent, with the added benefit that there is a guaranteed
impossibility to login as root even if something is not configured
correctly
1558 [11:46:34] <blackflow> obvs it's not functionally
equivalent. with locked root, any subsystem consulting PAM will say
"Nope". With strong pass, it will allow access.
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1560 [11:46:48] <koollman> which is a feature, for me :)
1561 [11:46:49] <blackflow> it'll say Nope even if YOU say
"But I'm root! Your God! Here's the pass!"
1562 [11:47:02] * blackflow shrugs.
1563 [11:47:09] <Haxxa> true I should invest in MOAR PC FANS!
1564 [11:47:19] <blackflow> if it works for you? go ahead. but in
general, it's a dumb advice.
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1566 [11:47:51] <koollman> I mean it is exactl why I want root to
be locked. no way to become root without going through very specific
apps. and in particular not just regular pam.
1567 [11:47:51] <ayekat> also, "if things are not configured
correctly", a lot else can go wrong, too
1568 [11:48:21] <koollman> but ... I cannot do that currently
because it causes too much trouble, so I do set a very strong root
password that I do not know, on my machines, and that I can find
with an algorithm :)
1569 [11:48:25] <koollman> works well enough
1570 [11:48:34] <blackflow> koollman: right and that's the
false sense of security thinking locked root will do anything good
over a strong root pass. so many vulnerabilities exist that can
elevate privilege and laugh at your configurations.
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1573 [11:49:04] <ayekat> and if a potential attacker has physical
access to the machine (under the assumption that everything is
configured correctly) having a root password set or not won't
change anything either
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1575 [11:49:16] <ayekat> so +1 for setting a (strong) root
password to avoid trouble
1576 [11:49:19] <koollman> blackflow: I still consider 'no
usable password' stronger than 'one usable password'.
I do agree that it's a small difference if the password is
strong and the hash is good
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1578 [11:50:43] <toolz> any cacti user around?
1579 [11:51:26] <ayekat> !ask
1580 [11:51:26] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For
example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian
version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I
expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if
anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all
volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get
an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org.
See <smart questions><errors>.
1581 [11:51:32] <blackflow> koollman: mathematically? it is, yes,
stronger. in practice the gain is insignificant. Like getting one
more frame per second in a game that already does over 60
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1584 [11:53:55] <koollman> blackflow: still not 'ZERO
benefit' :)
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1588 [11:54:09] <blackflow> it's also very bad advice because
newbie users think they "don't have root account".
I've seen this over and over in #ubuntu. they think
they're safe as there's no root at all, which is
completely false. so many reasons, not just insignificant gain, why
I think it's a very dumb advice.
1589 [11:54:12] <koollman> and that's assuming all software
is working as designed, of course
1590 [11:54:26] <toolz> how do I export last 6 hours in cacti
using graph_image.php - I upgraded to latest version of cacti 1.2.2
and I only got last 24 hours no matter what end/start graph I choose
1591 [11:54:53] <blackflow> koollman: as long as you're aware
of it, that's okay. so I said that as a general, globally
appliacable advice, it's a bad one.
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1593 [11:55:13] <koollman> blackflow: for this part I am not sure
how good or bad it is. no password is not no account, I do know that
perfectly. I assume it can be confusing for new users though, right
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1595 [11:55:51] <blackflow> yup.
1596 [11:56:02] <koollman> I also think default using with full
sudo access is dangerous, if you consider ubuntu defaults :)
1597 [11:56:07] <koollman> s/using/user/
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1604 [11:59:54] <FinalX> koollman: for a long time they even
allowed password logins over ssh, with the ubuntu user not having a
password in the default bootstrap; leaving it completeely open to
the world, and anyone could just log in without a password and
become root without a password through sudo
1605 [11:59:58] <FinalX> it was horrid :p
1606 [12:00:04] <FinalX> ..they changeed that behaviour now, tho
1607 [12:00:30] <koollman> well, everyone makes mistake, although
that one sound interesting :)
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1609 [12:00:48] <FinalX> yeah, not so much when you spool up an
lxc container and then having it owned in less than 2 min
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1611 [12:01:15] <colo-work> nice
1612 [12:01:17] <FinalX> their excuse was that the template had a
user/pass parameter for the default user and that it's your own
fault if you don't supply them
1613 [12:01:28] <colo-work> that's the kind of
"public" cloud I can appreciate
1614 [12:01:42] <FinalX> what does that have to do with cloud?
1615 [12:02:14] <FinalX> it's got everything to do with
ubuntu's default settings; creating an all-powerful user,
without password, and allowing those to log in remotely
1616 [12:02:22] <colo-work> you'll have to use your
imagination a tiny bit to make the leap
1617 [12:02:24] <FinalX> cloud or no cloud
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1623 [12:06:46] <EdePopede> there seem to be an ongoing
competition for some years to find the most ridiculous method to
mess up user/pass authentication.
1624 [12:07:01] <blackflow> hence the dumb advice. misplaced,
ignorant beliefe that caused more grief. want block root login over
ssh? "PermitRootLogin no" done.
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1629 [12:10:30] <FinalX> blackflow: not done, at all. Ubuntu had
it set to prohobit-password, which is great. but then adds a
password-less "ubuntu"-user with sudo NOPASSWD rights,
able to do *everything* as root anyway, and not having
PasswordAuthentication disabled allowed the whole world to log in.
1630 [12:10:37] <FinalX> blackflow: there's more than one
road that leads to Rome.. ;)
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1632 [12:11:15] <blackflow> uhm... well yes, if you change
"no" to anything else. with "no", there's
no root login over ssh.
1633 [12:11:30] <FinalX> that's what I'm saying
1634 [12:11:31] <blackflow> pam, no pam, passwd, nopasswd, ! or *,
doesn't matter.
1635 [12:11:37] <FinalX> you don't *NEED* to log in as root
directly
1636 [12:11:52] <FinalX> you can just log in as ubuntu@machine
with *NO* password and *become* root without using a password
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1638 [12:12:00] <FinalX> and you're still root@machine.
1639 [12:12:20] <blackflow> what I was trying to say is, that
their belief in creating a more secure system by messing with root
password, did more grief. if they wanted to prevent root login over
ssh, they should've only set PermitRootLogin, and be done with
it, messing with nothing else.
1640 [12:12:23] <FinalX> setting it to "no" in
sshd_config will not prevent you from logging in as a mortal user
and becoming root
1641 [12:12:42] <ksk> FinalX: oh, you are also in here? morning ;)
1642 [12:12:45] <FinalX> in fact, root's password is even
locked in the same install, you can't log in as root
1643 [12:12:49] <FinalX> morning ;)
1644 [12:12:52] <blackflow> and thus they went on to mess with
passwd and caused more problems.
1645 [12:13:33] <blackflow> but wait, ubuntu had NOPASSWD sudoer
line in the past?
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1668 [12:25:32] <ksk> not sure what you are talking about, but on
-my- ubuntu system I dont have any NOPASSWD sudoer lines ;)
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1672 [12:30:57] <ksk> btw, did eh, the default behaviour regarding
"copying things on your terminal with your mouse" of vim
change in debian some time ago? (like my new boxes seem to enter
VISUAL mode automagicly if I try to copy anything)
1673 [12:31:06] *** Joins: Slashman (~Slash@replaced-ip )
1674 [12:32:43] <ksk> I configmanagmented it away, but still
sometimes accounter it on 3rd party servers.
1675 [12:32:55] <ksk> *encounter
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1703 [12:48:34] <blackflow> ksk: there's no shortage of foot
shootage in linux usage :)
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1706 [12:49:18] <ksk> just interested why this was deemed a good
change, cuz I'm always like raging if this happens :D
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1712 [12:54:24] <blackflow> for the same reason systemd-resolved
is a good default, netplan.io is totally not a 15th standard and
thus good for you, and infinite rewrites of the installer is
NotABadThing(tm). I promised I'd stop bashing 'buntu, so
make your own conclusions about competency of 'buntu devs. Oh,
shoot, I promissed...... :)
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1724 [13:05:28] <tarzeau> blackflow: you can easily get rid of
netplan.io, we're just removing it, be done
1725 [13:05:55] <tarzeau> my biggest issue is systemd-networkd
with renamed network interfaces. i hate it
1726 [13:06:18] <tarzeau> blackflow: likewise for snap. it's
ugly, same with flatpak, appimage
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1728 [13:06:58] <blackflow> tarzeau: I know. We were discussing
defaults and changes.
1729 [13:07:54] <tarzeau> ah, did i say i hate systemd?
1730 [13:08:15] <tarzeau> and the new ifconfig, netstat?
1731 [13:08:23] <tarzeau> the linux proprietary i mean
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1734 [13:09:17] <blackflow> "proprietary"
1735 [13:09:31] <tarzeau> well it's retarded. tell me what
you want
1736 [13:09:49] <tarzeau> there was a cheatsheet of changing mac
addresses, all were similar, except windows
1737 [13:09:55] <tarzeau> but now linux also belongs to the shit
1738 [13:10:10] <blackflow> BSDs are that way ---->
1739 [13:10:11] <FinalX> tarzeau: you can fix the renaming,
though, and netplan allows you to rename interfaces based on
hwaddress as well
1740 [13:10:11] <tarzeau> glad there's debian gnu/kfreebsd
1741 [13:10:21] <tarzeau> FinalX: it's not like i don't
know that
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1744 [13:10:35] <tarzeau> blackflow: i'm an
NeXT/NEXTSTEP/OPENSTEP guy...
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1747 [13:11:08] <tarzeau> so looking forward to a microkernel
where drivers can die without bringing down the system: plan9,
barrelfish, minix, sel4
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1750 [13:11:29] <koollman> hurd ? :)
1751 [13:11:35] <tarzeau> haha
1752 [13:11:44] <tarzeau> 32bit, no sound drivers? in 2019?
1753 [13:11:54] <tarzeau> maybe reactos ?
1754 [13:11:58] <FinalX> 32? 16, of course.
1755 [13:12:14] <tarzeau> and ext2, haha
1756 [13:12:14] <koollman> I don't think reactos has separate
drivers. I could be wrong
1757 [13:12:26] <tarzeau> koollman: you can have it on fat or
btrfs meanwhile
1758 [13:12:34] <tarzeau> and i like UFS2
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1760 [13:12:37] <tarzeau> btrfs and xfs
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1762 [13:13:39] * jelly imagines tarzeau as the last standing Mail.app
user
1763 [13:13:51] <blackflow> tarzeau: but not ZFS? :)
1764 [13:14:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1538
1765 [13:14:19] <blackflow> "linux is shit" but "I
like btrfs"..... gotta get your priorities straight :)
1766 [13:14:36] <blackflow> oopsie, sorry for my klingon.
1767 [13:15:30] <tarzeau> jelly: GNUMail.app
1768 [13:15:51] <tarzeau> blackflow: i hate the linux OOM
1769 [13:16:20] <tarzeau> blackflow: if my workspace would not
depend on linux specific software (binaries), i'd switch to
debian gnu/kfreebsd right away
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1773 [13:17:41] <koollman> tarzeau: well, you can somewhat disable
the oom, even if it's still not perfect
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1776 [13:17:45] <blackflow> I wouldn't. just fresh example.
the freebsd kernel hard crahes (with nothing logged) with a badly
seated SATA cable.
1777 [13:17:51] <koollman> (I do hate it too)
1778 [13:17:52] <blackflow> linux at least logged ata errors
1779 [13:18:21] <blackflow> took me ove a week to figure out why
the F is the freebsd server hard crashing like that, with no
immediate software based hardware checks showing anything
1780 [13:18:25] <tarzeau> koollman: how?
1781 [13:18:37] <tarzeau> koollman: i'm using OOM=kernel
panic, kernel panic=reboot
1782 [13:18:52] <blackflow> reseated sata cable, poof crashes
gone. if anything "belongs to the <feces>",
it's that
1783 [13:18:59] <tarzeau> simply because i don't trust the
software anymore after it randomly kills a process. esp. on multi
user systems
1784 [13:19:24] <tarzeau> blackflow: on minix, the hd driver would
go berserk, and you'd just restart/start that
1785 [13:19:26] <blackflow> tarzeau: you can adjust the oom
priorities. OOM is good. locking up entire OS because your kernel
doesn't have it and is out of RAM? not good.
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1789 [13:19:40] <jelly> blackflow: wrong!
1790 [13:19:45] <tarzeau> blackflow: never worked for me. i have
it reboot. done
1791 [13:19:46] <blackflow> right!
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1794 [13:20:12] <jelly> OOM default behaviour is absolutely
unpredictable, I prefer whole box rebooting than some crucial
process dying
1795 [13:20:14] <koollman> tarzeau: setting
sys.vm.overcommit_ratio to something high enough (like 75 or 85),
then sys.vm.overcommit_memory to 2
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1797 [13:20:34] <koollman> I would rather have malloc return null
than process being killed :)
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1802 [13:20:53] <koollman> the trouble is there are not good
memory abstraction for many things used nowadays
1803 [13:20:56] <jelly> koollman: show me apps that deal with that
grafuclly
1804 [13:21:05] <tarzeau> koollman: what if your software
doesn't check the malloc return value??
1805 [13:21:09] <blackflow> jelly: which kinda amounts to the same
DoS situation doesn't it. :) because the only way out is
"add more RAM" or "moar swap" (bad) or
"cgroup limits so you can control who does what".
1806 [13:21:10] <koollman> jelly: postgresql, mysql, php, apache,
...
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1808 [13:21:19] <tarzeau> jelly: exactly, THAT is the point.
likewise with writes to files!
1809 [13:21:31] <koollman> jelly: if it doesn't, it crahes.
I'm fine with that. it is predictable and debuggable
1810 [13:21:47] <tarzeau> blackflow: we got 1.5TB + 2TB SSD SWAP,
people run out of memory
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1812 [13:21:58] <koollman> the trouble is that they cannot handle
it gracefully if oom is involved
1813 [13:22:07] <blackflow> tarzeau: right, so linux gives you
that control. FreeBSD does too, kinda, with jails and rctl. Other
BSDs I don't think so
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1816 [13:22:53] <blackflow> koollman: but <random> process
crashing (and oom is logged so you know why!) amounts to the same as
whole server rebooting: it's a DoS.
1817 [13:23:01] <tarzeau> i like zram thouch. macos has it default
since years
1818 [13:23:08] <koollman> blackflow: my point was : disable oom
1819 [13:23:10] <blackflow> in my case I'd prefer it NOT boot
because I use FDE and would then have to whitelist the server for
reboot
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1822 [13:23:21] <tarzeau> blackflow: fde?
1823 [13:23:26] <blackflow> full disk encryption
1824 [13:23:35] <koollman> blackflow: then it's not a random
process crashing, the failing process is the one that cannot handle
lack of memory
1825 [13:23:38] <tarzeau> dict said: Full Duplex Ethernet
(ethernet)
1826 [13:23:40] <koollman> much easier to debug
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1828 [13:23:46] <koollman> or avoid
1829 [13:23:52] <blackflow> remote servers are encrypted, and
initramfs needs that server whitelisted with a key so it may reboot
-- or unlocked over ssh
1830 [13:24:10] <jelly> koollman: incorrect, the kernel chooses
which process to kill
1831 [13:24:12] <blackflow> koollman: no I think OOM will headshot
any random processnot just the one that wanted moar RAM
1832 [13:24:25] <blackflow> BUT.... oom priorities can adjust taht
1833 [13:24:25] <tarzeau> jelly: and often gets the wrong one
1834 [13:24:40] <blackflow> you can say which processes are more
critical and should be considered less for a boom headshot.
1835 [13:24:46] <tarzeau> blackflow: SHOULD I CARE?
1836 [13:24:52] <koollman> I will repeat then: setting
sys.vm.overcommit_ratio to something high enough (like 75 or 85),
then sys.vm.overcommit_memory to 2 -> disable most cases for oom
1837 [13:24:58] <koollman> no oom, no randomness :)
1838 [13:24:58] <tarzeau> blackflow: the kernel is not got to
shoot down kernel processes
1839 [13:25:00] <tarzeau> EVER!
1840 [13:25:11] <blackflow> tarzeau: only you can answer that.
just don't make it into an absolute, uncorrectible problem
because it's not
1841 [13:25:39] <blackflow> koollman: also oom_score
1842 [13:25:41] <tarzeau> i'm sorry i really belive it is
1843 [13:25:51] <koollman> blackflow: don't need it with
sys.vm.overcommit_memory=2
1844 [13:26:02] <blackflow> tarzeau: that's just your belief
then.
1845 [13:26:09] <koollman> because ... no overcommit. no situation
for out of ram handling
1846 [13:26:22] <blackflow> overcommit is okay if you know what
you're doing.
1847 [13:26:34] <tarzeau> some use mmap not malloc
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1849 [13:26:38] <tarzeau> how does the kernel handle that?
1850 [13:26:40] <blackflow> but indeed, plenty of ways to ensure
your server is quite stable and OOM works FOR you, not against you.
1851 [13:26:46] <koollman> yeah. but I don't trust most
programs to know what they are doing :)
1852 [13:26:59] <blackflow> noobs confusing lack of knowledge of
how to do that, with "this is <feces> I hates it, filthy
hobbitses!"
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1855 [13:27:45] <blackflow> koollman: thus systemd and its great
ability to expose kernel features through unit files. confinement,
cgroups, seccomp, resource limits, and you control the situation.
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1869 [13:35:52] <koollman> blackflow: nah :)
1870 [13:36:32] <koollman> blackflow: maybe you could make this
point for s6 without sarcasm. because the source code is
minimalistic and readable, and the separation of concern is very
strong :)
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1880 [13:41:18] <blackflow> koollman: s6 could be the bestest
thing since sliced bread but I'm not gonna rip out the most
critical component. systemd was opted as the default init. I'll
make the most use of it as possible. but yes I agree, technically,
its implementation is borderline criminal
1881 [13:41:46] <koollman> I totally would. and will.
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1884 [13:42:26] <blackflow> koollman: which is good. more users =
more bug reports, leading to it becoming a viable, usable
alternative one day
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1944 [14:25:10] <StucKman> I have a couple of md raid1 devices who
report a missing disk:
replaced-url
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1957 [14:36:53] <ChrisH> StucKman: replace disk with partition in
your sentence. There is not a disk sdn missing but partitions
(guessed names) sdn1 and sdn3. sdn3 has updated time in Janauart,
looks like the mirror is offline for a longer time.
1958 [14:37:12] <StucKman> ChrisH: yes, sorry
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1960 [14:37:35] <StucKman> hmm, I have an idea why
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1962 [14:37:50] <StucKman> I think I just confused that one part
thinks the array is fine
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1966 [14:38:14] <ChrisH> reattach them and you should be done.
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1998 [15:00:13] <essdeeay> Is there a way of finding empty dirs
whilst excluding dot files? What I have at the moment is: "find
. -type d -empty -mtime +93" but of course the empty parameter
never works because of the dot files.
1999 [15:00:30] <greycat> You'll have to script it yourself.
2000 [15:00:55] <greycat> There isn't a find builtin
primitive for "empty except for dot files", and hell, even
-empty is a GNUism.
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2007 [15:02:46] <ber532k> I'm having trouble getting a wifi
connection with rtl8192cu driver for realtek (on stretch). Running
journalctl reveals I always get disconnected just after the
connection has been established. Any help would be appreciated.
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2014 [15:05:57] <essdeeay> greycat, Thanks - I'll do that ;)
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2016 [15:06:18] <StucKman> ChrisH: yes, thanks
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35.0.1/20150122214805])
2018 [15:07:18] <manticorpus> Hi, does the execution of the script
:
replaced-url
2019 [15:07:25] <StucKman> essdeeay: find . -type d -nlink 2 or
somethong on those lines?
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2022 [15:08:07] <greycat> StucKman: that won't tell him
whether Dir contains "foo" or ".foo" and he
wants to act differently in those two cases.
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2024 [15:08:22] <manticorpus> ber532k: I have test this device one
time, and give up. I never found any way to get a working situation
(was with a old kernel like 3.14)
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2028 [15:09:36] <ber532k> manticorpus: Discouraging, but thanks
for the feedback. I guess I'll just look for a dongle then or
something.
2029 [15:10:13] <manticorpus> ber532k: Sorry, but keep in mind I
am really not an expert
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2033 [15:11:47] <AlexNagy> so recently I tried updating my tower
from Windows 10 to Debian 9. It went swimmingly aside from the Linux
driver for my ATI FirePro v5900 (it wouldn't load because the X
server was too new, go figure). The default drivers for the card are
horrible and so I downgraded to Windows. If I buy a pair of Quadro
5000s (the max my tower can support in its default configuration;
linux driver here:
replaced-url
2034 [15:11:47] <AlexNagy> ) will I have similar issues?
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2037 [15:12:03] <ber532k> manticorpus: sure, maybe an expert will
show up who knows how to solve this ;) (frankly, I was surprised
anyone even had experience with the same driver)
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2042 [15:17:51] <ChrisH> AlexNagy: _I would try to stay away from
ati-nvidia
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2045 [15:18:29] <ChrisH> AlexNagy: _I_ would try to stay away from
ati-nvidia modules, check
replaced-url
2046 [15:19:26] *** Joins: slu (~slu@replaced-ip )
2047 [15:20:45] <DonK_KijotE> Hi
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2050 [15:21:54] <AlexNagy> ChrisH, I'll give that a look and
maybe try on a spare drive instead of reinstalling my system at the
start (the default driver really is crap, like, really really really
bad).
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2067 [15:26:42] <ssarah> hi, im trying to switch from ubuntu to
debian, is there the equivalent of the "aditional drivers"
thing for debian?
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2070 [15:26:55] <ssarah> specifically im trying to install the
nvidia and ati drivers
2071 [15:27:04] <petn-randall> ssarah: What does the
"additional drivers" thing do?
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2074 [15:27:48] <petn-randall> ssarah: There is next to
"main" a "contrib" and "non-free"
section. The "non-free" section usually carries firmware
needed for wifi cards, and also any non-free nvidia drivers.
2075 [15:28:14] <ZEROF> ssarah:
replaced-url
2076 [15:28:14] *** Quits: MAlgol (~MAlgol@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2077 [15:28:19] <ZEROF> This will work for you
2078 [15:28:21] <ssarah> petn-randall, that's in synaptic ?
2079 [15:28:37] <ZEROF> For nvidia
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2081 [15:28:42] <ssarah> ZEROF, sounds good
2082 [15:28:43] <ssarah> :)
2083 [15:28:49] <ssarah> for ati it's ati-driver ?
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2086 [15:30:03] <ZEROF> ssarah: not really
2087 [15:30:40] <ZEROF> apt-get install firmware-linux-nonfree
libgl1-mesa-dri xserver-xorg-video-ati
2088 [15:30:47] <ZEROF> Will do the trick
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2090 [15:30:55] <petn-randall> !ati
2091 [15:30:55] <dpkg> Where possible, most ATI/AMD graphics
processing units are supported using the open source
"radeon" driver on Debian systems by default, ask me about
<radeon>. To install the proprietary "fglrx" driver,
ask me about <fglrx>; installing this directly from amd.com
(i.e. with the AMD Catalyst installer) is not supported in #debian,
please go to #ati on irc.freenode.net.
2092 [15:30:56] <ZEROF> But you can't use both in same time
2093 [15:31:16] <ZEROF> :)
2094 [15:31:31] <ZEROF> If you want to install ati, remove nvidia
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2098 [15:31:56] <ssarah> thank you very much guys
2099 [15:32:10] <ssarah> this is to play games
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2126 [15:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1557
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2134 [15:46:08] <AlexNagy> Is there any software available on
Debian that y'all know of for use in an academic environment
(such as browser lock-down to prevent cheating)?
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2143 [15:48:59] <AlexNagy> I'm studying for various IT certs
in a trade school, and my class is responsible for all the IT (with
some exceptions) on campus and one of my projects is to find a way
to repurpose aging hardware that won't be supported under
Windows 10. I chose Debian over Ubuntu because of it's
stability.
2144 [15:49:22] *** Joins: i-me (~i-me@replaced-ip )
2145 [15:49:42] <AlexNagy> (and also because I'm somewhat
familiar with it, having it used it long-term back many moons ago)
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2155 [15:54:10] <rant> most people who are savvy arent going to
use some lockdown browser, they'd just use a firewall
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2158 [15:54:43] <rant> trying to use an application level approach
to this issue is far more cumbersome than a network level approach
2159 [15:54:52] *** Joins: flokuehn (~flokuehn@replaced-ip )
2160 [15:55:09] <AlexNagy> I agree, but for some proctored tests,
it's not an issue of what the most savvy solution is.
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2166 [15:57:59] <AlexNagy> (and for some proctored exams, like
those offered by CompTIA (for which my school is an accredited
Pearson-Vue testing center and authorized academy partner), I
don't think there is *any* Linux solution.)
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2170 [15:59:35] <xand> AlexNagy: if you want to restrict website
access then you can require use of a proxy that only allows certain
URLs/domains
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2173 [15:59:53] <rant> AlexNagy:
replaced-url
2174 [15:59:54] <r3m1> hello
2175 [16:00:29] <AlexNagy> Thank you xand and rant (: Much
appreciated, I will explore those avenues.
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2182 [16:02:47] <r3m1> I'm working with a Pi and raspbian...
but didnt get much help with a routing question so I 'll give
it a go here. I have a mobile modem connected to the pi and I am
able to establish a ppp connexion and use this modem for internet.
However I would like to be able to switch automatically to LAN if an
ethernet cable is plugged in. I have seen that when I plug a network
cable, DHCP gives my eth0 an IP and gateway. Also, a new default
route is added and shows up
2183 [16:02:47] <r3m1> in route -n
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2185 [16:03:36] <r3m1> I want to know which process is responsible
of adding the default route and possibly control this process to add
the default route with an external script and not
"automatically"
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2188 [16:04:32] <black_13> if you build and package from source of
gstreamer would that allow you to have the dbg information and to
step into the source
2189 [16:04:44] <greycat> It could be network-manager, or an
allow-hotplug line in /e/n/i, or a systemd thing.
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2191 [16:04:55] <greycat> Those are the 3 ways to configure
network interfaces in Debian.
2192 [16:05:04] *** Joins: kslen (~newbie@replaced-ip )
2193 [16:05:08] <greycat> Ask #raspbian for more details because
we don't know how Raspbian does it.
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2198 [16:08:14] <r3m1> greycat thanks.
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2224 [16:21:44] *** Quits: pingfloyd (~pingfloyd@replaced-ip ) (Quit: ☮ out)
2225 [16:24:01] <mason> greycat: FWIW, they appear to use
ifupdown.
2226 [16:24:08] *** Joins: jcole (~jcole@replaced-ip )
2227 [16:24:27] *** Quits: sk_tandt (~sk_tandt@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2228 [16:24:34] *** Joins: __marco (~marco@replaced-ip )
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2230 [16:25:03] *** Quits: P1ersson (~P1ersson@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2231 [16:25:17] <greycat> then there's probably an
allow-hotplug eth0 line in /etc/network/interfaces
2232 [16:25:20] *** Joins: Tenkawa (~Tenkawa@replaced-ip )
2233 [16:25:44] *** Joins: zabow (~zabow@replaced-ip )
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2235 [16:26:50] *** Quits: mibo (~mibo@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2236 [16:28:17] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2238 [16:28:57] *** Quits: marconline (~marconlin@replaced-ip ) (Quit: marconline)
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2240 [16:29:52] *** Quits: chele (~chele@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2241 [16:30:16] *** Joins: thunderrd (~thunderrd@replaced-ip )
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2243 [16:31:31] <martian67|> Hello, I have a bare minimum hostapd
config
replaced-url
2244 [16:31:40] <martian67|> its not showing up for any wifi
clients
2245 [16:32:00] <martian67|> i have installed firmware-atheros and
rebooted
2246 [16:32:24] <martian67|> hostapd reports no errors when run
manually, but i still see nothing
2247 [16:32:27] <martian67|> any clues here?
2248 [16:32:42] <martian67|> this card works fine in other oses
2249 [16:32:51] <martian67|> so its for 100% sure not a hardware
issue
2250 [16:34:04] *** Joins: martastain (~martastai@replaced-ip )
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2256 [16:36:36] *** Joins: ztychr (~ztychr@replaced-ip )
2257 [16:36:41] *** Quits: devbaka (~devbaka@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2258 [16:36:47] *** Quits: Dark-Jedi (~dark-jedi@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2259 [16:37:27] *** Quits: SickzZ (~SickzZ@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2260 [16:37:59] *** Joins: SickzZ (~SickzZ@replaced-ip )
2261 [16:38:13] *** Quits: Sepultura (~quassel@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ##replaced-url
2262 [16:38:29] *** Quits: jolt (jolt@replaced-ip ) (Quit: jolt)
2263 [16:38:30] *** Joins: devbaka (~devbaka@replaced-ip )
2264 [16:39:45] *** Joins: sheen (~sheen@replaced-ip )
2265 [16:40:10] <martian67|> some -d output for hostapd
replaced-url
2266 [16:40:11] *** Quits: ich (~ich@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2267 [16:40:22] <martian67|> dosent seem to be any issues here
2268 [16:40:35] <martian67|> but multiple other clients do not see
it
2269 [16:40:40] <sheen> Hi there, I have issues restoring VG with
clonezilla, anyone experienced with this ?
2270 [16:40:48] <martian67|> nor are any wifi APs showing up
2271 [16:41:14] <martian67|> *nor are any wifi frames showing up
when looking with airodump-ng on other devices
2272 [16:41:31] *** Quits: DonK_KijotE (~donk@replaced-ip ) (Quit: see u later alligator.)
2273 [16:41:52] <martian67|> this is on debian 9, latest updates
2274 [16:42:05] *** Joins: lgbtperson (~gaytranny@replaced-ip )
2275 [16:42:19] <lgbtperson> hello. im a gay trans queer. i like
anus sex.
2276 [16:42:20] <lgbtperson> hello. im a gay trans queer. i like
anus sex.
2277 [16:42:21] <lgbtperson> hello. im a gay trans queer. i like
anus sex.
2278 [16:42:38] *** Joins: jolt (jolt@replaced-ip )
2279 [16:42:38] *** Quits: jolt (jolt@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
2280 [16:42:47] <lgbtperson> !ops im a homo trans
2281 [16:42:47] <dpkg> Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH,
mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel,
zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall:
lgbtperson complains about a problem (see above)
2282 [16:42:48] *** Quits: format_c (~format_c@replaced-ip ) (Quit: format_c)
2283 [16:43:01] <lgbtperson> i like doing it in the bum hole
2284 [16:43:45] *** Parts: broesel (~broesel@replaced-ip ) ()
2285 [16:43:59] *** Quits: errorn04 (~errorn04@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2286 [16:44:20] *** Quits: zeSoup (~jsc@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2287 [16:44:24] <Tenkawa> martian67|: do you have a machine that
can run tcpdump?
2288 [16:44:32] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o greycat
2289 [16:44:40] *** greycat sets mode: +q *!*@216.189.154.9
2290 [16:44:46] <martian67|> Tenkawa, the card dosent emit any
wifi packets at all
2291 [16:44:47] *** greycat sets mode: -o greycat
2292 [16:44:55] <Tenkawa> does it see the attempts ?
2293 [16:44:55] <martian67|> but yes
2294 [16:44:57] <Tenkawa> oh
2295 [16:45:08] <Tenkawa> odd
2296 [16:45:08] <martian67|> im looking on another machine with
airodump-ng
2297 [16:45:13] <martian67|> yeah it is
2298 [16:45:19] *** Quits: fekir (~fekir@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2299 [16:45:41] <martian67|> like i said its for sure not a
hardware issue
2300 [16:45:44] <Tenkawa> oh
2301 [16:45:47] *** Joins: fekir (~fekir@replaced-ip )
2302 [16:45:49] <Tenkawa> check rfkill
2303 [16:45:53] <martian67|> because it works fine on other oses
2304 [16:45:57] <martian67|> oh right, rfkill stupid crap
2305 [16:46:38] <martian67|> Soft blocked: no Hard blocked: no
2306 [16:46:41] <martian67|> nope
2307 [16:46:45] *** Joins: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip )
2308 [16:46:45] <Tenkawa> darn
2309 [16:46:57] <mason> greycat: pm?
2310 [16:47:10] <Tenkawa> couldnt get that lucky eh?
2311 [16:47:16] <martian67|> yeah :(
2312 [16:47:23] *** Joins: jolt (jolt@replaced-ip )
2313 [16:47:24] <martian67|> how do i tell if firmware actually
loaded properly
2314 [16:47:30] <phazon> lsmod
2315 [16:47:32] <greycat> dmesg should show it being loaded
2316 [16:47:37] <Tenkawa> dmesg | grep firmware
2317 [16:48:09] *** Joins: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip )
2318 [16:48:32] <martian67|> well it seems to at least be
operational
2319 [16:48:39] <martian67|> let me try connecting with it as a
client
2320 [16:48:41] *** Quits: Pjusur (~Pjusur@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2321 [16:48:42] *** Quits: rypervenche (~rypervenc@replaced-ip ) (Quit: brb)
2322 [16:48:46] <Tenkawa> ok
2323 [16:48:50] *** Quits: AquaL1te (~AquaL1te@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
2324 [16:49:29] <Tenkawa> ddid you set your crda too?
2325 [16:49:36] *** Quits: anglophilic (~seekr@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Goodbye, cruel world.)
2326 [16:49:56] <Tenkawa> not that i think that is required
2327 [16:50:00] *** Joins: seekr (~seekr@replaced-ip )
2328 [16:50:22] <martian67|> i had it set before, didnt make any
difference
2329 [16:50:27] <Tenkawa> ok
2330 [16:50:29] <martian67|> was just trying with a minimal config
2331 [16:50:33] <Tenkawa> nod
2332 [16:50:36] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip ) ()
2333 [16:50:38] *** Quits: lgbtperson (~gaytranny@replaced-ip ) (K-Lined)
2334 [16:50:40] <martian67|> dosent seem to be working as a client
either...
2335 [16:50:55] *** Joins: sk_tandt__ (~sk_tandt@replaced-ip )
2336 [16:51:21] *** Quits: XmmD (~XmmD@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2337 [16:51:41] *** Joins: XmmD (~XmmD@replaced-ip )
2338 [16:51:56] <martian67|> seems i can at least scan WTF
2339 [16:52:07] *** Quits: martastain (~martastai@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2340 [16:52:09] *** Quits: m0j0dj0dj0 (~punk3r@replaced-ip ) (Quit: go drink with my bitches!)
2341 [16:53:48] *** Joins: fakhraee_ (~fakhraee@replaced-ip )
2342 [16:54:30] *** Quits: sk_tandt_ (~sk_tandt@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2343 [16:54:49] *** Joins: jsubl2 (~jim@replaced-ip )
2344 [16:55:54] *** Joins: format_c (~format_c@replaced-ip )
2345 [16:56:15] *** Joins: joshbright (~joshbrigh@replaced-ip )
2346 [16:56:18] *** Joins: nibble_zero (~nibble_ze@replaced-ip )
2347 [16:56:51] *** Quits: format_c (~format_c@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
2348 [16:57:19] *** Joins: soee (~soee@replaced-ip )
2349 [16:58:36] *** Quits: y34hbuddy (~dan@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
2350 [16:59:26] *** Quits: cryptodan (~cryptodan@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2354 [17:00:33] *** Quits: joshbright (~joshbrigh@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
2355 [17:00:38] *** Quits: kouni (~kouni@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
2356 [17:00:48] *** Joins: Dreadnaught (~kulrak@replaced-ip )
2357 [17:00:48] *** Quits: Dreadnaught (~kulrak@replaced-ip ) (Changing host)
2358 [17:00:48] *** Joins: Dreadnaught (~kulrak@replaced-ip )
2359 [17:01:28] *** Joins: joshbright (~joshbrigh@replaced-ip )
2360 [17:01:35] *** Joins: debianero (~debianero@replaced-ip )
2361 [17:01:41] *** Quits: soee (~soee@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2362 [17:01:41] *** Quits: Texou (~Texou@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2363 [17:01:42] *** Joins: soee_ (~soee@replaced-ip )
2364 [17:01:49] *** Joins: cryptodan (~cryptodan@replaced-ip )
2365 [17:02:49] *** Quits: Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@replaced-ip ) ()
2366 [17:03:47] *** Joins: Envil (~envil@replaced-ip )
2367 [17:04:15] *** Quits: mrig (~mrig@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2368 [17:04:34] *** Quits: teclo- (42@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2369 [17:04:37] *** Quits: BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2370 [17:04:48] *** Joins: mortderire (~mortderir@replaced-ip )
2371 [17:05:40] <martian67|> seems like for whatever reason the
card cant send packets under debian..
2372 [17:05:50] *** Joins: teclo- (42@replaced-ip )
2373 [17:06:02] *** Joins: ChmEarl (~chmearl@replaced-ip )
2374 [17:06:12] *** Quits: emss_ (~mint@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2375 [17:06:51] <Tenkawa> what kind of card is this?
2376 [17:07:00] <petn-randall> martian67|: How are you testing the
client connection?
2377 [17:07:10] <martian67|> Atheros AR9282
2378 [17:07:30] <martian67|> petn-randall, attempting to associate
with the iw command, again, no packets are generated as verified
from another machine
2379 [17:08:23] <petn-randall> `iw` is not suitable to test client
authentication, unless you know how to do the handshakes via CLI.
I'd rather use network-manager to do this.
2380 [17:08:34] <martian67|> there is no encryption
2381 [17:08:55] <martian67|> but thats besides the point, there
are literally no wifi packets being generated when i tell iw to
associate
2382 [17:09:01] <martian67|> network manager isnt going to fix
that
2383 [17:09:05] *** Quits: cryptodan (~cryptodan@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2384 [17:09:43] <petn-randall> You'd be surprised ...
2385 [17:09:52] <Tenkawa> martian67|: run this test for me on the
machine you are trying to test if you dont mind
2386 [17:10:00] <martian67|> ok
2387 [17:10:06] <Tenkawa> ifconfig interface up
2388 [17:10:19] <martian67|> i have ip but yes
2389 [17:10:20] <Tenkawa> tcpdump -n -i interface
2390 [17:10:25] <Tenkawa> no
2391 [17:10:27] <Tenkawa> ifconfig
2392 [17:10:29] <Tenkawa> not ip
2393 [17:10:39] <Tenkawa> it had it has to be ifconfig
2394 [17:10:45] *** Joins: jnavila (~jnavila@replaced-ip )
2395 [17:10:50] <martian67|> why is ip link set wlp5s0 up not ok?
2396 [17:10:59] <Tenkawa> if you dont have it installed install
the utility
2397 [17:11:00] *** Joins: w17t (~w17t@replaced-ip )
2398 [17:11:10] <martian67|> trying to keep gigabytes of crap off
of this router, hence me not wanting network manager
2399 [17:11:18] <jelly> judd: file bin/ifconfig
2400 [17:11:22] <judd> Search for bin/ifconfig in stretch/amd64:
net-tools: sbin/ifconfig
2401 [17:11:26] *** Joins: cryptodan (~cryptodan@replaced-ip )
2402 [17:11:33] <jelly> net-tools isn't gigabytes
2403 [17:11:37] <Tenkawa> ifconfig is like kb
2404 [17:11:52] <Tenkawa> and VERY useful
2405 [17:11:58] *** Quits: oiaohm (~oiaohm@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2406 [17:12:06] <martian67|> ip can do everything it can, but
whatever, installing it
2407 [17:12:10] <jelly> (though I wonder the same thing as
martian67| wrt ip link set dev ... up)
2408 [17:12:23] <jelly> martian67|: it uses slightly different
kernel APIs
2409 [17:12:31] *** Joins: oiaohm (~oiaohm@replaced-ip )
2410 [17:12:48] <Tenkawa> jelly: ip changed the syntax for us old
school geeks
2411 [17:12:58] *** Quits: polman (~ananevtem@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2412 [17:13:00] <jelly> Tenkawa: but we know the new syntax
2413 [17:13:01] <martian67|> so im running tcpdump what do you
want to know Tenkawa this isnt gonna be too useful if it isnt
associated :)
2414 [17:13:05] <Tenkawa> yaya
2415 [17:13:07] <Tenkawa> heehee
2416 [17:13:09] *** Joins: polman (~ananevtem@replaced-ip )
2417 [17:13:37] *** Quits: jsubl2 (~jim@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
2418 [17:13:39] <Tenkawa> martian67|: now... try to send something
through the int
2419 [17:13:50] <Tenkawa> with it being forced up
2420 [17:13:54] <martian67|> how, its not associated...
2421 [17:13:54] <Tenkawa> it shouldnt matter
2422 [17:13:55] *** Joins: fueqw (~gruqds@replaced-ip )
2423 [17:14:03] <Tenkawa> it will see any attempts
2424 [17:14:24] <Tenkawa> you can attempt a manual scan
2425 [17:14:30] <Tenkawa> with iw scan
2426 [17:14:38] *** Quits: abff (~abff@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2427 [17:14:53] <Tenkawa> iw scanning or whatever that command is
2428 [17:14:58] <Tenkawa> iwlist
2429 [17:15:08] <Tenkawa> iwlist dev scanning
2430 [17:15:12] <Tenkawa> or something
2431 [17:15:27] *** Quits: fekir (~fekir@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2432 [17:15:53] *** Quits: ZEROF (58d5fb12@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2433 [17:16:23] <martian67|> no packets
2434 [17:16:31] <martian67|> it does scan however, i see APs
2435 [17:16:48] <martian67|> i dont think tcpdump is capable of
seeing 802.11 management frame stuff
2436 [17:16:59] *** Quits: Gaaab (~Gaaab@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2437 [17:17:01] <Tenkawa> intrso the nic does at least work
2438 [17:17:04] *** Joins: soee (~soee@replaced-ip )
2439 [17:17:05] <Tenkawa> er s
2440 [17:17:07] *** Quits: soee_ (~soee@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2441 [17:17:07] <Tenkawa> so
2442 [17:17:14] <martian67|> well it can receive packets..
2443 [17:17:18] <Tenkawa> yes
2444 [17:17:22] <martian67|> seems to have problems generating
them somehow
2445 [17:17:25] <Tenkawa> the transmit might be blown
2446 [17:17:29] <jelly> martian67|: where's your dmesg?
2447 [17:18:50] <jelly> is the antenna connected? :-)
2448 [17:18:56] <martian67|> yes
2449 [17:19:01] <martian67|> as i said it works on other OSes
2450 [17:19:05] <martian67|> as both client and AP
2451 [17:19:06] <martian67|>
replaced-url
2452 [17:19:57] *** Quits: sk_tandt__ (~sk_tandt@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2453 [17:20:07] *** Quits: dowwie (~dowwie@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2454 [17:20:16] *** Quits: sebatron (a5e1514a@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2455 [17:20:23] *** Quits: kyych (~kyych@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2456 [17:20:56] <martian67|> seems like it has managed to
associate odd
2457 [17:21:05] <martian67|> but i attempted to run dhclient, and
nothing
2458 [17:21:16] <Tenkawa> you have a bridge setup
2459 [17:21:25] <Tenkawa> that changes matters
2460 [17:21:33] <martian67|> yes the wifi card is not bridged
however
2461 [17:21:35] <martian67|> at least not yet
2462 [17:21:40] *** Joins: BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip )
2463 [17:21:43] *** Quits: jnavila (~jnavila@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2464 [17:22:04] <Tenkawa> well if you look at the dmesg its
grabbing the card
2465 [17:22:08] <martian67|> it was on boot, but its removed now
2466 [17:22:10] *** Quits: encod3 (~encod3@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2467 [17:22:40] <martian67|> ill try rebooting without adding it
at all
2468 [17:22:47] <Tenkawa> ok
2469 [17:22:48] <jelly> hmph, dmesg output looks pretty much the
same as on my tp-link archer c5 router with the same card for 2.4GHz
2470 [17:22:54] <martian67|> none of this should effect operation
as an AP
2471 [17:22:56] <martian67|> fwiw
2472 [17:23:15] *** Joins: rizzo (~RizzoTheR@replaced-ip )
2473 [17:23:16] <martian67|> yes its very odd
2474 [17:23:17] *** Quits: vmrod25 (~vrodri3@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2475 [17:23:19] *** Joins: errorn04 (~errorn04@replaced-ip )
2476 [17:23:28] *** Joins: paulo_ (~paulo@replaced-ip )
2477 [17:23:51] *** paulo_ is now known as Guest55898
2478 [17:23:52] <jelly> martian67|: eh... you could try installing
4.19 kernel from stretch-backports, see if it does anything
different
2479 [17:23:55] *** Joins: kyych (~kyych@replaced-ip )
2480 [17:24:44] <jelly> after checking no-bridge setup
2481 [17:24:53] <martian67|> no difference
2482 [17:25:01] *** Joins: fekir (~fekir@replaced-ip )
2483 [17:25:01] <martian67|> ok how do i do that jelly
2484 [17:25:13] *** Quits: w17t (~w17t@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2485 [17:25:57] *** Quits: fueqw (~gruqds@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2486 [17:26:07] *** Quits: citypw (~citypw@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2487 [17:26:12] * Tenkawa just hopes to get up to 5.0 with his new
Nvidia setup without too much pain
2488 [17:26:27] *** Joins: Gaaab (~Gaaab@replaced-ip )
2489 [17:26:49] *** Joins: w17t (~w17t@replaced-ip )
2490 [17:27:00] <Tenkawa> the test kernel compiled <8 minutes
but wouldnt run x..
2491 [17:27:13] <greycat> 'But I'd like to point out
(yet again) that we don't do feature-based releases, and that
"5.0" doesn't mean anything more than that the 4.x
numbers started getting big enough that I ran out of fingers and
toes.'
2492 [17:27:33] <martian67|> version numbers are arbitrary human
constructs
2493 [17:27:36] <greycat>
replaced-url
2494 [17:27:38] <Tenkawa> greycat: I like running developmenmt
code
2495 [17:27:39] <martian67|> news at 11
2496 [17:27:53] <Tenkawa> greycat: dont preach to me
2497 [17:28:00] *** Quits: Guest55898 (~paulo@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2498 [17:28:01] *** Joins: mrig (~mrig@replaced-ip )
2499 [17:28:04] <martian67|> debates about semantic definitions
are the worst thing on the internet
2500 [17:28:32] <Tenkawa> I was just stating todays task
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2502 [17:28:43] <martian67|> wasnt a reply to you
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2504 [17:28:57] <Tenkawa> martian67|: no.. I know
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2514 [17:32:25] <Tenkawa> martian67|: out of odd curiosity do you
have any open board slots to move that card to?
2515 [17:32:32] <martian67|> no
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2518 [17:32:50] <Tenkawa> shouldnt matter but I'm reaching
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2520 [17:33:20] <martian67|> what is the difference between signed
and unsigned kernel images
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2522 [17:33:52] <martian67|>
linux-image-4.19.0-0.bpo.2-amd64-unsigned - Linux 4.19 for 64-bit
PCs
2523 [17:33:52] <martian67|> linux-image-4.19.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 -
Linux 4.19 for 64-bit PCs (signed)
2524 [17:33:59] <Tenkawa> not sure what the "full"
diiference is
2525 [17:34:21] <Tenkawa> btw... what do you get (pastebin it) if
you ifconfig -a
2526 [17:34:21] <towo`> you cant boot such unsignte kernel with
securebott enabled
2527 [17:34:23] <petn-randall> martian67|: signed kernel can be
used with secure boot.
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2530 [17:34:38] <Tenkawa> towo`: ahhhh
2531 [17:34:49] <Tenkawa> good to know
2532 [17:34:55] <Tenkawa> thats helpfu;
2533 [17:34:56] <petn-randall> martian67|: It also means that you
can change it without breaking the signature, though, as it gets
signed by Debian's key that is signed by Microsoft.
2534 [17:34:58] <Tenkawa> er helpful
2535 [17:35:01] <petn-randall> *CAN'T
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2537 [17:35:12] <martian67|> ah that garbage
2538 [17:35:14] *** Quits: kirkland (~kirkland@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2539 [17:35:17] <Tenkawa> indeed
2540 [17:35:19] <martian67|> figured it was something related to
that, thanks
2541 [17:35:46] <petn-randall> You can sign your own kernels by
adding the key to your UEFI storage, but that's extra steps you
might or might not want to do.
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2543 [17:36:07] <martian67|> its completely irrelivant to me, i
use core boot
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2547 [17:38:15] <martian67|> depressing how hard floss people
rolled over on that however
2548 [17:38:39] <martian67|> cant wait until microsoft starts
revoking keys because you can "compromise" windows with
linux
2549 [17:39:04] <Tenkawa> its not compromised...
2550 [17:39:13] <Tenkawa> its a "partnership"
2551 [17:39:16] <Tenkawa> haahaa
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2553 [17:39:51] <petn-randall> You *can* add your own signing
keys, so secure boot does actually add some benefit.
2554 [17:40:04] <petn-randall> You can also remove any other keys
AFAIK.
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2556 [17:40:25] <Tenkawa> I mean who wouldve ever thought
non-windows code would be runnning in a windows store addon to make
it feel like linux
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2558 [17:40:29] <martian67|> argh why does 4.19 require python 3?
2559 [17:40:34] <martian67|> anyway to avoid this
2560 [17:40:44] <jelly> hmm?
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2562 [17:41:12] <martian67|> trying to upgrade to the backported
4.19 wants to install python 3
2563 [17:41:20] <Tenkawa> jelly: was that for martian67| or me?
2564 [17:41:33] <jelly> martian67|: show the complete output.
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2567 [17:42:15] <jelly> martian67|: I suspect Recommends: apparmor
2568 [17:42:36] <martian67|> sigh, bloating this image by another
50% horay
2569 [17:43:12] <jelly> just do aptitude install
linux-image-4.19.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 apparmor_
2570 [17:43:32] <jelly> or use an option to avoid installing
Recommends this one time
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2572 [17:43:58] <greycat> Is that _ correct, or should it be - ?
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2574 [17:44:23] <jelly> _ is want-to-purge, - is want-to-remove
iirc
2575 [17:44:42] <greycat> So intuitive. :rolleyes:
2576 [17:44:46] <jelly> obviously _ is lower than -
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2578 [17:44:55] <Tenkawa> isnt it though?
2579 [17:45:01] <Tenkawa> ugh
2580 [17:45:18] <jelly> yes it's very intuitive if
you're unfortunate enough to remember dselect
2581 [17:45:20] <greycat> Especially since - is actually a valid
character in a package name.
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2583 [17:45:47] <Tenkawa> yeah and if you mistype it, very bad
things could happen
2584 [17:45:48] <jelly> (I don't know if - as suffix works at
all)
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2586 [17:46:33] <greycat>
replaced-url
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2589 [17:47:27] <greycat> setpriv_ doesn't work with apt-get
but does work with aptitude
2590 [17:48:04] <jelly> so... aptitude wins?
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2594 [17:48:52] <greycat> It has more features. Never questioned
that.
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2615 [17:54:56] <jelly> /usr/bin/apt also only does install foo-
but not install foo_
2616 [17:55:24] <jelly> clearly someone needs to upload
provingapoint-_1.0_all.deb
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2620 [17:58:33] <martian67|> jelly, new kernel makes no
difference...
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2629 [18:02:56] <bipul> How to install debian server silently on
hypervisor?
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2634 [18:06:00] <martian67|> bipul, if you are using libvirt on
hypervisor check out virt-install and preseeding
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2643 [18:07:19] <bipul> martian67|, I am using Virtualbox headless
installation.
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2645 [18:08:02] <newbiePI> howdy folks
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2655 [18:13:26] <newbiePI> I am running raspbain on a raspberry pi
3. I was able to watch movies with no issue using vlc. then after
reboot now I get an error saying can not play mp4. I get sound but
no video now?
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2657 [18:13:57] <newbiePI> I ended up just rewriting my os to the
sd card again. any idea's why it would have failed?
2658 [18:14:13] <Tenkawa> any more detail please.. logs?
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2660 [18:14:42] <Tenkawa> although if you rewrote they are gone
already right?
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2663 [18:17:02] <Tenkawa> brb.. I need a reboot to finish an
install
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2674 [18:25:16] <newbiePI> yup, sorry no logs. I am new to linux
so it was just easier for me to redo the sd card and update the os
again.
2675 [18:25:39] <newbiePI> if it happens again I will come here
1st before just reinstalling the os lol
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2685 [18:27:11] <CrazyTux> hello..
2686 [18:27:44] <CrazyTux> does debian make use of the
contributions made by other debian based distros like mx linux and
sparky?
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2689 [18:29:18] <shtrb> shouldn't apt-get update against
deb.debian.org be redirected to cdn-fastly.deb.debian.org ?
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2691 [18:30:10] <greycat> !deb.debian.org
2692 [18:30:11] <dpkg> deb.debian.org is a mirror network that is
backed by international content delivery networks and for most
users, this is the most reliable <mirror> to use in the
<sources.list>. From Debian 9 "Stretch" onwards, apt
queries SRV records in DNS which then send it off to a CDN. Older
apt will get an HTTP redirect from deb.debian.org to the same CDNs.
See
replaced-url
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2696 [18:31:02] <shtrb> Thank you greycat, but that doesn't
answer my question (apt not mentioning I had been redirect to fastly
as it's mentioned in deb.debian.org)
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2699 [18:32:15] <greycat> So your REAL question is "Why
doesn't apt-get show me every single DNS lookup being
performed?"
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2701 [18:33:03] <FinalX> nobody should ever make it a habit of
putting a CDN's own name in the hostname used
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2704 [18:33:30] <FinalX> keep everything to generic, reusable
names, so you can point it to some other backend/provider later
instead without having to reconfigure clients
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2706 [18:33:45] <shtrb> I was under the impression that apt should
say get:2
replaced-url
2707 [18:33:47] <FinalX> and redirects and DNS are also not
related
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2709 [18:34:38] <greycat> apt-get (et al.) do not, as a general
rule, tell you to precisely which mirror you have been redirected
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2711 [18:35:02] <shtrb> Thanks, I was wrong
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2739 [18:50:36] <jelly> martian67|: it was worth a try I guess
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2862 [20:08:45] <WoC> just did a fresh install 9.8, OpenCL broken
(amd) and when i login to X, the screen flips 90 degree CCW
2863 [20:08:51] <WoC> suggestions?
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2870 [20:12:22] <jhutchins_wk> Hey, that's a fun new one.
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2911 [20:46:03] <armu> PAYING BTC $100 for bind setup to host
multiple domain names and an easy way to create a A name for each
hosted domain name and point to a ip
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2914 [20:50:01] <shtrb> you are paying for a tldr page ?
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2916 [20:50:21] <shtrb> *tldp
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2939 [21:16:59] <agio> hi, do the package maintainers push new,
updated packages containing security fixes to the regular release
archive - as well as the security archive?
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2941 [21:17:53] <agio> in other words, once a package is security
fixed, do the maintainers remove all instances of the old,
vulnerable packages?
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2943 [21:18:25] <greycat> Once a release has been... released...
made stable... there are no updates to it by the regular
maintainers. Security updates are created by the security team, and
occasionally a point release will be issues, containing the security
updates and a few other carefully chosen bug fixes.
2944 [21:19:18] <greycat> No, the package in the stable release is
not REMOVED. You as a user are expected to have sources.list entries
for both the security repository as well as the regular stable
repository.
2945 [21:19:30] <greycat> Apt-get will use the newer version which
will be the one in the security repository.
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2958 [21:26:08] <agio> got it. thanks for clarification
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2994 [21:48:54] <Unplesantry> debconf: (TERM is not set, so the
dialog frontend is not usable.)
2995 [21:48:56] <Unplesantry> wtf is this?
2996 [21:49:31] <Sleaker> Unplesantry: you're trying to run
dpkg/apt commands using scripts?
2997 [21:49:44] *** Quits: ableto (~cryptum@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2998 [21:49:55] <greycat> Or from cron, perhaps.
2999 [21:50:07] <Sleaker> that's a script :P
3000 [21:50:25] <Unplesantry> docker lol
3001 [21:50:32] <greycat> Well, it's the execution
environment here that matters, not whether it's a script. A
script being run in a terminal would work.
3002 [21:50:37] <Sleaker> sure
3003 [21:50:38] *** Joins: kupi (uid212005@replaced-ip )
3004 [21:51:16] <Unplesantry> this fixes it seems like
3005 [21:51:16] <Sleaker> Unplesantry: set
DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive before doing anything with dpkg/apt
in the docker container
3006 [21:51:18] *** Joins: zerotech (~zerotech@replaced-ip )
3007 [21:51:19] <Unplesantry> RUN echo 'debconf
debconf/frontend select Noninteractive' |
debconf-set-selections
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##replaced-url
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3040 [22:08:18] <DonK_KijotE> Hi
3041 [22:09:29] *** Quits: ae-35 (~ae-35@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3042 [22:09:55] <agio> I'm trying to show/print the original
release package for policykit, (the vulnerable one) left in the
stretch release archive. but `apt-cache policy policykit1' is
only showing the new security-fixed package. how can I show/print
all the "policykit-1" packages?
3043 [22:10:20] *** Quits: Rogalian (~cools@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3044 [22:10:27] *** Quits: shann (~Stanislas@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3045 [22:10:36] *** Joins: YottaiQ (~YottaiQ@replaced-ip )
3046 [22:13:21] *** Quits: littlebit (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3047 [22:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1537
3048 [22:14:15] <Sleaker> agio: apt-cache only shows information
about packages that are cached locally.
3049 [22:14:45] <Sleaker> if you've already updated and apt
update hasn't been run against a repo with the vulnerable one
it won't show in apt-cache
3050 [22:15:01] <greycat> What version is the "vulnerable
one"?
3051 [22:15:12] <agio> that's what I'm trying to find
out
3052 [22:15:20] *** Quits: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3053 [22:15:24] <agio> all I can see is the fixed one
3054 [22:15:41] <agio> (when running apt-cache policy policykit-1)
3055 [22:15:42] *** Joins: _Posterdati_ (~Posterdat@replaced-ip )
3056 [22:15:43] <Sleaker> agio: apt-cache is not the tool
you're looking for then
3057 [22:15:59] <greycat> that completely didn't answer my
question :(
3058 [22:16:11] *** Quits: sdoubleyou (~sdoubleyo@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3059 [22:16:26] <agio> what did I miss?
3060 [22:16:45] <greycat> You claim there's a
"vulnerable version". I'm wondering what version that
is.
3061 [22:16:45] <Sleaker> what version is the vulnerable version.
3062 [22:16:54] *** Quits: Posterdati (~Posterdat@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3063 [22:16:58] <Sleaker> if you don't know what the
vulnerable version is how are you searching for it?
3064 [22:17:16] *** Quits: acidtripper (~acidtripp@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3065 [22:17:18] <greycat> I'm not seeing policykit on
replaced-url
3066 [22:17:52] <greycat> How old is the DSA?
3067 [22:18:02] *** Joins: CyberTrekker (~cybertrek@replaced-ip )
3068 [22:18:23] <agio> If Im understanding this bug report:
replaced-url
3069 [22:18:34] <greycat> Here's one from DECEMBER:
replaced-url
3070 [22:18:57] <Sleaker> [06 Dec 2018] DSA-4350 policykit-1 -
security update
3071 [22:19:09] *** Quits: gjt343 (~gjt@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3072 [22:19:22] <greycat> Yeah, that's three months ago. No
wonder there's no skew between security.d.o and the main
repository.
3073 [22:19:27] *** Quits: Sollg3r (~ejakuk@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3074 [22:19:41] <greycat> Point releases have occurred since then.
The patched version is already in main.
3075 [22:19:46] *** Joins: Tom01 (~tom@replaced-ip )
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3078 [22:20:47] *** Joins: yans (~yans@replaced-ip )
3079 [22:21:04] <agio> oh, so once point releases are published,
the original package is removed from the release archive?
3080 [22:21:17] *** Joins: gjt343 (~gjt@replaced-ip )
3081 [22:21:40] <agio> or is it just removed from local apt cache
?
3082 [22:22:29] <greycat> What's your REAL question? I am
still completely stumped by what you are looking for.
3083 [22:22:37] <Sleaker> agio: it's still in the remote
repository
3084 [22:22:44] *** Quits: dastier (~dastier@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3085 [22:22:48] <Sleaker> like I said before though, apt-cache is
probably not what you're looking for
3086 [22:23:12] <agio> Im trying to recreate the bug, so I want to
install the vulnerable package/s into a container for testing
3087 [22:23:14] <Sleaker> apt-cache lets you poll information
about a package from the local cache of apt data. it requires that
you've run an apt-get update against a repository.
3088 [22:23:20] <greycat> If you want the old broken version:
3089 [22:23:23] <greycat> !snapshot
3090 [22:23:23] <dpkg>
replaced-url
3091 [22:24:54] *** Quits: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3092 [22:25:29] <Sleaker> the vulnerable package isn't
available on either of the main or security repositories so
you'll have to look for a version prior to policykit-1_0.115-3
3093 [22:25:37] <greycat> On snapshot.
3094 [22:25:47] *** Joins: retpoline (~retpoline@replaced-ip )
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3097 [22:27:48] *** Joins: milkt (~debian@replaced-ip )
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3101 [22:28:51] <Tenkawa> yay
3102 [22:28:55] *** Joins: littlebit (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
3103 [22:28:55] <Tenkawa> much better
3104 [22:31:05] *** Joins: aloo_shu (~atomic@replaced-ip )
3105 [22:31:07] <lpancescu> hi, what happens with CVE-2019-5786?
it's a 0-day already exploited in the wild, sid already has the
fix, but stretch and testing don't (chrome was updated at the
beginning of this week).
3106 [22:31:21] *** Quits: Levure (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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3109 [22:32:00] <agio> thanks greycat, I found it on
snapshot.debian.org
3110 [22:32:04] *** Quits: woshty (~woshty@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
3111 [22:32:07] <greycat> The security team will release a fix as
soon as they have one ready, I would tihnk.
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3115 [22:33:09] *** Quits: retpoline (~retpoline@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
3116 [22:33:12] <greycat> You can check
replaced-url
3117 [22:33:18] *** Quits: Tenkawa (~Tenkawa@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
3118 [22:33:24] <lpancescu> i saw firefox fixes are usually very
quick, usually same day as upstream (same as for most debian
packages), but for chromium it usually takes a while
3119 [22:33:52] *** Joins: gjt343 (~gjt@replaced-ip )
3120 [22:34:20] *** Joins: kalibro (~textual@replaced-ip )
3121 [22:34:29] <lpancescu> greycat: i did, that's where i
saw that sid has had the fix since March 2nd
3122 [22:35:17] *** Joins: retpoline (~retpoline@replaced-ip )
3123 [22:35:21] *** Quits: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3124 [22:36:39] *** Quits: pringau (~pringau@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3125 [22:36:46] <agio> what is the significance of "deb"
in the version name of a package? e.g. 72.0.3626.96-1~deb9u2
3126 [22:37:05] *** Joins: dreamon (~dreamon@replaced-ip )
3127 [22:37:12] <greycat> deb9u2 means it's the second
security for debian 9 (stretch) to that package
3128 [22:37:28] *** Quits: zeden (~user@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.4)
3129 [22:37:39] <agio> ok, thanks
3130 [22:37:45] <Sleaker> the 'deb' indicates it's
a specific patch version to debian.
3131 [22:37:45] <EdePopede> that's actually a really nice
glob > `echo ??(?)?`. took me some time, but it has something.
3132 [22:38:04] <greycat> EdePopede: extglobs are off by default
in bash, though -- you have to enable them with shopt -s extglob
3133 [22:38:22] *** Quits: Gaaab (~Gaaab@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3134 [22:38:37] <Sleaker> agio: as opposed to the package
maintainers version.
3135 [22:38:40] *** Joins: kw21 (~kw21@replaced-ip )
3136 [22:38:51] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip )
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3139 [22:39:31] *** Joins: pringau (~pringau@replaced-ip )
3140 [22:39:33] <agio> does extendedglob enable the `^' token
in bash? (i.e. match files which _dont_ contain this pattern)
3141 [22:39:46] <greycat> that would be !(foo)
3142 [22:39:51] *** Joins: n_1-c_k (~nick@replaced-ip )
3143 [22:39:57] <lpancescu> debian normally backports security
fixes to the version in stable, looking at e.g.
replaced-url
3144 [22:40:00] <greycat>
replaced-url
3145 [22:40:11] *** Quits: BlueByte (~walther@replaced-ip ) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
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3148 [22:41:15] *** Joins: mtn (~mtn@replaced-ip )
3149 [22:42:08] <agio> ah, so extendedglob is not necessary
3150 [22:42:33] *** Quits: kalibro (~textual@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3151 [22:42:53] *** Quits: aloo_shu (~atomic@replaced-ip ) (Quit: 't's been a pleasure)
3152 [22:43:29] <EdePopede> greycat: they're on here, and
nothing to see in the start scripts. even in a new terminal, but i
also checked the profile files.
3153 [22:43:43] <greycat> Where is "here"?
3154 [22:43:51] *** Joins: nuuuciano__ (~luuuciano@replaced-ip )
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3162 [22:46:24] <greycat> They're on by default in ksh, and
bash *can* be compiled with them on by default (but is not in Debian
9).
3163 [22:46:51] <greycat> So either you're not using a
vanilla Debian 9 bash shell, or you've got shopt -s extglob
somewhere in .bashrc or similar and you just haven't spotted it
yet.
3164 [22:47:04] *** Quits: Brainium (~brainium@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
3165 [22:47:38] *** Joins: flokuehn (~flokuehn@replaced-ip )
3166 [22:47:47] <agio> yes, the negation glob operator !(..) only
works with extglob on
3167 [22:48:25] <EdePopede> stretch. and "glob" has only
one entry in the files and there it is commented out.
3168 [22:48:47] <agio> why extglob is on by default - Im not sure
- I wouldn't set that
3169 [22:48:55] *** Joins: nickgaw (~nick@replaced-ip )
3170 [22:49:23] <nickgaw> Hi, Why can I not login to my system as
root using my password with ssh?
3171 [22:49:34] <greycat> Some people in #bash would prefer if it
were enabled by default because it doesn't seem to break
anything. Chet is very conservative about backward compatibility
though.
3172 [22:49:52] <greycat> nickgaw: that's configurable in
/etc/ssh/sshd_config
3173 [22:50:19] <nickgaw> What do I change?
3174 [22:50:24] *** Quits: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3175 [22:50:26] <greycat> For a long time the default during
Debian installation was to set it up to allow Root ssh access. Only
recently (jessie or stretch maybe?) it changed to disallow Root by
default.
3176 [22:50:30] *** Joins: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip )
3177 [22:50:49] <greycat> wooledg:~$ grep Root
/etc/ssh/sshd_config
3178 [22:50:49] <greycat> PermitRootLogin yes
3179 [22:50:57] *** Joins: Guest93259 (~ju@replaced-ip )
3180 [22:50:59] <nickgaw> why not have a debconf setting for this?
3181 [22:51:11] <greycat> Why not just edit the file and restart
ssh?
3182 [22:51:39] <nickgaw> ok but what do I change?
3183 [22:51:46] <greycat> There *was* a question about it during
the installation, long ago. It was removed, along with the email
configuration, because they wanted the installation to be
"easier".
3184 [22:51:54] <greycat> Dude, I told you AND showed you.
3185 [22:52:18] <agio> permitrootlogn and PasswordAuthentication
may need to be changed
3186 [22:52:36] <lpancescu> nickgaw: find that line and change
WithoutPassword into yes
3187 [22:53:20] <lpancescu> i think password auth is already
enabled, just not for root
3188 [22:53:34] <EdePopede> not even in *bash* and profile*
anywhere in /etc. at least for root it is off. i'll take it as
a riddle.
3189 [22:53:46] <nickgaw> it is set to permit root prohibate
password.
3190 [22:53:53] <greycat> EdePopede: you only checked in /etc? not
in $HOME?
3191 [22:54:07] <EdePopede> greycat: checked them all of course
3192 [22:54:20] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip )
3193 [22:54:21] *** Joins: mthe878 (~mthe@replaced-ip )
3194 [22:54:23] <EdePopede> i'll create another user later
and see
3195 [22:55:04] <nickgaw> should I remove the portion about the
password and just set it to yes?
3196 [22:55:04] <greycat> Hmm... you said root. Maybe it's
different for root. I just tried "su -" and it seems to be
on there.
3197 [22:55:12] *** Joins: jnavila (~jnavila@replaced-ip )
3198 [22:55:26] *** Joins: hiroshi (~hiroshi@replaced-ip )
3199 [22:55:29] <EdePopede> on? here it is off for root, that glob
failed.
3200 [22:55:52] <lpancescu> nickgaw: you should disable passwords
for everyone, not just root, and use pubkey auth :)
3201 [22:56:15] <EdePopede> greycat: anyway, nevermind. i'll
try to hunt it down later.
3202 [22:56:27] <nickgaw> no I want to allow root to login with a
password as currently I can not login as root.
3203 [22:56:37] <greycat> "su" -> no extglob.
"su -" -> extglob. Hmm.
3204 [22:57:04] * lpancescu sighs
3205 [22:57:32] *** Quits: nuuuciano__ (~luuuciano@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3206 [22:57:59] *** Joins: gigetoo (~gigetoo@replaced-ip )
3207 [22:58:01] *** Joins: scriada (~adam@replaced-ip )
3208 [22:58:28] <nickgaw> if I set it to allow-password would this
allow root to login with a password?
3209 [22:58:31] *** Joins: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip )
3210 [22:58:48] <greycat> You were TOLD what to do.
3211 [22:58:54] <greycat> 16:52 lpancescu> nickgaw: find that
line and change WithoutPassword into yes
3212 [22:58:58] *** Joins: nuuuciano__ (~luuuciano@replaced-ip )
3213 [22:59:30] *** Quits: scriada (~adam@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
3214 [22:59:37] <jhutchins_wk> nickgaw: The default is
"PermitRootLogin prohibit-password". You are expected to
log in as a regular user and use su - or sudo for root privileges.
3215 [23:00:10] <greycat> Well, "expected" is a
subjective thing.
3216 [23:00:32] <agio> what if the system doesn't have a
regular user yet?
3217 [23:00:43] <jhutchins_wk> nickgaw: It would be worth your
effort to read the manpage for sshd_config and get an idea what
options are available.
3218 [23:00:44] <greycat> One is created during installation.
3219 [23:01:02] *** Joins: CaptainN (zelda@replaced-ip )
3220 [23:01:04] *** Parts: izh_ (~denis@replaced-ip ) ()
3221 [23:01:04] *** Quits: Fye (~Fye@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Bye.)
3222 [23:01:10] <agio> on desktops you mean?
3223 [23:01:20] <greycat> During. Installation.
3224 [23:01:23] <lpancescu> direct login to root via ssh keys also
works, as it should
3225 [23:01:45] <greycat> It prompts you for the full name of the
initial user account, and then supplies a generated login name, and
prompts you for the password. You know. During installation.
3226 [23:02:07] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: You can opt out.
3227 [23:02:12] <lpancescu> you might now have a user at all if
you disabled that in the preseed file for debian-installer
3228 [23:02:28] <greycat> Well if you do those things, then you
get to fix whatever problem you created for yourself.
3229 [23:02:32] *** Joins: BrianG61UK_ (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip )
3230 [23:02:53] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: Exactly
3231 [23:03:01] <nickgaw> the line says in buster permitrootlogin
prohibit-password and there is no line about root login
with-password but loads of comments about it.
3232 [23:03:14] <lpancescu> greycat: heh, preseed and ansible-ull,
athough i suspect nickgaw isn't quite there yet
3233 [23:03:22] *** Quits: mtn (~mtn@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
3234 [23:03:32] <lpancescu> ansible-pull^
3235 [23:03:39] <jhutchins_wk> nickgaw: The commented line in the
config file shows what the default setting is.
3236 [23:03:49] <nickgaw> yes
3237 [23:04:19] <nickgaw> I wish to change it to allow root with
password but the line does not exist to uncomment.
3238 [23:04:51] <jhutchins_wk> nickgaw: Have a look at th man
page.
3239 [23:04:54] *** Quits: BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3240 [23:05:08] <nickgaw> for the configuration file?
3241 [23:05:09] <greycat> nickgaw: grep Root /etc/ssh/sshd_config
3242 [23:05:24] <jhutchins_wk> nickgaw: The syntax has changed a
bit in different releases.
3243 [23:05:29] <lpancescu> nickgaw: there won't be a
commented line for each possible setting. just edit the file to the
settings you need
3244 [23:05:34] *** Quits: _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3245 [23:05:43] <greycat> Who wants to bet he's in the wrong
file.
3246 [23:07:07] *** Quits: darkvenon (~darkvenon@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3247 [23:07:16] *** Quits: birk0ff (~birq@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3248 [23:07:22] <jhutchins_wk> Since he's clearly not in the
man page, I'd say yes.
3249 [23:07:45] <greycat> I'm guessing he's in
ssh_config instead of sshd_config.
3250 [23:07:47] <nickgaw> I am in the right file does it matter
where I add that option?
3251 [23:08:19] *** Joins: Rogalian (~cools@replaced-ip )
3252 [23:08:55] <greycat> Add it where it exists by default on a
DEBIAN system. Log in to a DEBIAN system to see one.
3253 [23:09:05] <greycat> I don't know what you're using
but it's clearly not a default Debian sshd_config.
3254 [23:09:05] *** Joins: birk0ff (~birq@replaced-ip )
3255 [23:09:05] *** Quits: rsully (~rsully@replaced-ip ) (Quit: rsully)
3256 [23:09:24] <lpancescu> nickgaw: no, it doesn't (although
directly after the commented out line is usually a good place)
3257 [23:09:57] *** Quits: laidback_01 (~laidback_@replaced-ip##) (Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria ##replaced-url
3258 [23:09:59] <nickgaw> it is a buster system installed rfreshly
and in the installation I chose ssh server during the select and
install software.
3259 [23:10:27] <greycat> and what do you see when you PASTE (NOT
TYPE) grep Root /etc/ssh/sshd_config
3260 [23:10:27] *** Quits: Guest93259 (~ju@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3261 [23:10:45] <nickgaw> As buster is still in testing is it not
supported here as something could have been changed from stable to
testing?
3262 [23:10:48] *** Quits: Rogalian (~cools@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3263 [23:11:16] *** Joins: Rogalian (~cools@replaced-ip )
3264 [23:11:19] *** Quits: Rogalian (~cools@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3265 [23:11:39] *** Quits: [Brain] (~brain@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3266 [23:11:47] *** Quits: sorko999 (~sorko999@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving.)
3267 [23:11:57] *** Joins: manuelschneid3r (~manuelsch@replaced-ip )
3268 [23:12:15] *** Joins: Rogalian (~cools@replaced-ip )
3269 [23:12:22] <nickgaw> Chroot-Directory none
3270 [23:12:29] <nickgaw> commented out.
3271 [23:12:33] <greycat> See, you cannot follow directions.
3272 [23:12:40] <greycat> That line does NOT match Root.
3273 [23:13:11] *** Quits: jmarsac (~jmarsac@replaced-ip##) (Quit: Nettalk6 - ##replaced-url
3274 [23:13:11] <greycat> You typed "root" (lower case)
instead of READING.
3275 [23:13:45] *** Joins: [Brain] (~brain@replaced-ip )
3276 [23:13:51] *** Quits: xSmurf (~MrSmurf@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3277 [23:14:09] <greycat> And then instead of PASTING the result
here, you typed it out, and made TWO mistakes.
3278 [23:14:14] <nickgaw> with a # and tPermitRootLogin
without-password
3279 [23:14:34] <agio> is there any documentation for the
PermitRootLogin option? its not in man ssh_config...
3280 [23:14:42] <greycat> man sshd_config
3281 [23:14:58] *** Quits: greycat (~wooledg@replaced-ip ) (Quit: They see me clawin' the love seat / They won't
do nothin' 'cause I'm cute and furry)
3282 [23:14:59] <nickgaw> I am using epic5 a text based irc client
is this not a suggested client for copying and pasting?
3283 [23:15:21] <agio> I dont have man sshd_config
3284 [23:15:48] <nickgaw> man sshd_config exists for me
3285 [23:15:51] *** Quits: foureighttwonine (~foureight@replaced-ip ) (Quit: foureighttwonine)
3286 [23:16:09] <somiaj> agio: do you have the openssh-server
installed?
3287 [23:16:11] <lpancescu> agio: then you probably don't
have sshd either. you have to install openssh-server
3288 [23:16:13] *** Quits: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3289 [23:16:23] <agio> yes, thats the problem
3290 [23:16:35] <jhutchins_wk> agio: Do you have sshd?
3291 [23:16:56] *** Quits: manuelschneid3r (~manuelsch@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3292 [23:17:03] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip )
3293 [23:17:15] <agio> sorry, yeah, I didn't have sshd on the
machine I was trying to read man page for!
3294 [23:17:19] *** Joins: Tenkawa (~Tenkawa@replaced-ip )
3295 [23:17:57] *** Quits: flokuehn (~flokuehn@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3296 [23:18:25] <vvor> agio:
replaced-url
3297 [23:18:40] *** Joins: manuelschneid3r (~manuelsch@replaced-ip )
3298 [23:18:55] *** Quits: manuelschneid3r (~manuelsch@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3299 [23:19:04] <jhutchins_wk> Interesting: dpkg-query: no path
found matching pattern /etc/ssh/sshd_config
3300 [23:19:04] *** Joins: xSmurf (~MrSmurf@replaced-ip )
3301 [23:19:05] *** Quits: allorder (~allorder@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3302 [23:19:27] *** Quits: Tenkawa (~Tenkawa@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
3303 [23:20:41] *** Joins: manuelschneid3r (~manuelsch@replaced-ip )
3304 [23:20:54] *** Quits: jnavila (~jnavila@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3305 [23:20:57] *** Joins: krabador (~krabador@replaced-ip )
3306 [23:20:58] *** Quits: manuelschneid3r (~manuelsch@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3307 [23:21:43] <nickgaw> fixed it the line now reads as
PermitRootLogin yes and now I can login with a password. as I am
totally blind and use the text console and am using epic5 do you
know of a way I can using the keyboard copy and paste text?
3308 [23:22:52] <jhutchins_wk> !info gpm
3309 [23:22:56] *** Joins: Phohle5zz (~Phohle5z@replaced-ip )
3310 [23:22:59] <dpkg> gpm: (General Purpose Mouse interface),
section misc, is optional. Version: 1.20.7-5 (sid), Packaged size:
194 kB, Installed size: 484 kB
3311 [23:23:11] *** Quits: Phohle5zz (~Phohle5z@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3312 [23:23:22] *** Quits: Phohle5z (~Phohle5z@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3313 [23:23:30] <jhutchins_wk> nickgaw: gpm gives you mouse
functions in text consoles.
3314 [23:23:45] <nickgaw> I don't use a mouse can screen be
used with the keyboard to copy and paste text?
3315 [23:23:47] <jmcnaught> nickgaw: GNU Screen can copy and paste
with just the keyboard
3316 [23:24:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1529
3317 [23:24:24] <jhutchins_wk> nickgaw: I'm fairly certain it
allows keyboard highlight/copy/paste. (It's been a while since
I used it.)
3318 [23:24:34] <jmcnaught> nickgaw:
replaced-url
3319 [23:25:13] *** Quits: lpancescu (~laur@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
3320 [23:25:20] <nickgaw> so in that case I would not use the
virtual consoles but do everything using screen's commands?
3321 [23:25:58] *** Joins: allorder (~allorder@replaced-ip )
3322 [23:27:15] *** Joins: jsubl2 (~jim@replaced-ip )
3323 [23:27:24] *** Quits: armu (b999c6f7@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Page closed)
3324 [23:27:50] <jmcnaught> screen can only copy and paste in the
screens that it manages, so if you need that feature a lot you might
choose to use screen all the time
3325 [23:28:26] *** xcm is now known as Guest43306
3326 [23:28:26] *** Quits: Guest43306 (~xcm@replaced-ip ) (Killed (weber.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
3327 [23:28:37] <nickgaw> I will just start it when I login in
.profile with the -q option would that work?
3328 [23:29:07] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip )
3329 [23:29:35] *** Quits: littlebit (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
3330 [23:31:16] <vvor> nickgaw: You probable want to disable root
& switch to key-base authentication ASAP.
3331 [23:31:18] *** Quits: zerotech (~zerotech@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3332 [23:31:51] <nickgaw> I have keys for ssh generated why do you
suggest I disable passwords?
3333 [23:31:59] *** Quits: fax (~fax@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
3334 [23:32:32] *** Joins: teclo- (42@replaced-ip )
3335 [23:33:25] <vvor> Passwords are less secure.
3336 [23:33:56] <vvor> Root login is less secure.
3337 [23:34:27] <nickgaw> I have my keys in .ssh in my home
directories but can I just have one key set for the entire system as
it is mine rather then copying the keys to each user account?
3338 [23:35:16] *** Joins: elkalamar (elkalamar@replaced-ip )
3339 [23:36:17] <blackflow> nickgaw: I think you can, yes, with
the AuthorizedKeysFile directive of sshd_config
3340 [23:36:29] <vvor> If you want all users to use the same key,
you can. But you lose security and auditing optioins.
3341 [23:36:51] <nickgaw> good point
3342 [23:36:57] *** Quits: devbaka (~devbaka@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3343 [23:37:01] <agio> would it be reasonable to enable
ssh-agent-forwarding on a remote server - _if_ I setup my local
ssh-agent - to prompt me each time a process tried to access
ssh-agent?
3344 [23:37:01] *** Joins: Tarrasquero (~Tarrasque@replaced-ip )
3345 [23:37:06] <jmcnaught> most people would have a single
account they use for logging in, then use su or sudo to change users
3346 [23:37:35] *** Joins: devbaka (~devbaka@replaced-ip )
3347 [23:37:48] <vvor> Yep. And generating a user key is all most
the same time as copying the keys...
3348 [23:38:16] <nickgaw> my one issue for disabling passwords is
what happens if I lose the private key file as yes both are backed
up but are there ways to force my way into my own system should that
ever happen?
3349 [23:38:54] <friendofafriend> PAM isn't keyed, log in
locally.
3350 [23:39:22] <nickgaw> I mean if I am away from this system as
yes I could login locally.
3351 [23:40:20] <vvor> Where will you keep the password then?
3352 [23:40:25] *** Joins: v01t (~v01t@replaced-ip )
3353 [23:40:39] *** Joins: Brain (~brain@replaced-ip )
3354 [23:41:18] <vvor> Sourly you can not remember it, because if
so it is not a good one anyhow.
3355 [23:42:23] <agio> would it be reasonable to enable
ssh-agent-forwarding on a remote server - _if_ I setup my local
ssh-agent - to prompt me each time a process tried to access
ssh-agent?
3356 [23:42:40] <agio> (sorry for bump)
3357 [23:43:34] *** Quits: [Brain] (~brain@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3358 [23:45:23] <vvor> What is the end goal? What are you relay
trying to achieve?
3359 [23:46:20] <agio> I need to do git push/pulling on a remote
server
3360 [23:47:15] <agio> so git/ssh process on the server will
connect to github
3361 [23:47:23] <agio> and it needs to authenticate
3362 [23:47:38] <ksk> use a seperate keypair, which only lives on
this server, and is only used to push to git(hub)
3363 [23:48:23] <vvor> Yep without passphrase, but a restricted
user.
3364 [23:48:25] <agio> won't that be less secure
3365 [23:48:26] <agio> ?
3366 [23:48:59] <ksk> if you use a password, then no?
3367 [23:49:46] <jmcnaught> agio: there's an alternative to
agent forwarding discussed here that I've used:
replaced-url
3368 [23:50:04] <ksk> also depends on how you define that, and how
your overall setup looks like.
3369 [23:50:06] <agio> right, but if the server is compromised,
typing the password on the system is vulnerable
3370 [23:50:22] <ksk> you just type a password for a sshkey
3371 [23:50:47] <agio> right, a password which can be sniffed on a
compromised server
3372 [23:50:52] <ksk> if its "dedicated git key via
ssh-agent) vs something else It does not really matter
3373 [23:51:09] <vvor>
replaced-url
3374 [23:51:20] *** Joins: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
3375 [23:52:09] <agio> yes, agreed.
3376 [23:52:23] <vvor>
replaced-url
3377 [23:52:38] <ksk> if your server where you develop is
compromised, it does not really matter if you use agent forwarding,
or have the key you would have forwrded on disk (+type in password)
3378 [23:53:15] <ksk> maybe I would go for agent-forwarding, but
always make sure you forward only the key needed for git (and dont
use it for anythign else)
3379 [23:54:11] <vvor> agio: Do not reinvent the wheel...
3380 [23:54:38] <ksk> you can of course also do git magic? like
have a repo live a $remote-server, pull the changes back to your
client via git, push from client to github ;)
3381 [23:54:52] <agio> yes, I thought of that
3382 [23:54:53] *** Quits: jsubl2 (~jim@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
3383 [23:54:57] <agio> that is safe
3384 [23:54:58] *** Quits: mthe878 (~mthe@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3385 [23:55:09] <agio> but awkward workflow
3386 [23:55:13] <ksk> depends on what you define as safe.
3387 [23:55:39] *** Quits: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
3388 [23:55:40] <ksk> this would give only you control to push to
git compared to the other methods.
3389 [23:56:07] *** Quits: argusbr (~donw@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3390 [23:56:20] <ksk> on the other hand, why login into an
untrusted server and develop there in the first place?
3391 [23:56:23] *** Joins: argusbr (~xibata@replaced-ip )
3392 [23:56:23] *** Quits: argusbr (~xibata@replaced-ip ) (Changing host)
3393 [23:56:23] *** Joins: argusbr (~xibata@replaced-ip )
3394 [23:56:26] <agio> right ,so you are saying to mint a set of
ssh keys which have restricted access (can only access git
repo's)
3395 [23:56:39] *** Joins: mthe878 (~mthe@replaced-ip )
3396 [23:57:04] *** Joins: littlebit (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
3397 [23:57:45] <jhutchins_wk> nickgaw: To answer your earlier
question, ssh wouldn't be very secure if you could get around
required key-based authentication. It's probably possible to
crack, but certainly not eassy.
3398 [23:57:52] *** Joins: BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip )
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3401 [23:59:54] *** Quits: BrianG61UK_ (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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