Realtime Nick Name Ticker of #debian at freenode (ICQ IRC service)

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5[00:02:14] <hemebond> When trying to install nginx-light=1.10.3-1~bpo8+1 it complains that nginx-common isn't going to be installed. Could this be because of different priorities of the repos? 1.10 is from backports with priority 100 but the regular Debian Jessie repo has priority 500.
6[00:04:04] <mvaenskae> looking at the wiki of the rpi3 and debian -- is there somewhere in here who has their pi running with debian and can report an bit on what the arch used is and whether there are any general usage issues for headless?
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10[00:05:22] <tomreyn> hemebond: yes priorities will be why. if you choose to specify a specific package version to install you may need to also specifiy the packages this one depends on, along with the compatible verisons.
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12[00:05:37] <tomreyn> hemebond: a better approach may be to use -t release
13[00:05:46] <hemebond> tomreyn: Oooh, okay. Thanks.
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15[00:05:58] <tomreyn> ... but it depends opn priorities whether or that is going to work out.
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17[00:06:27] <tomreyn> i.e. -t will only work if priorities of the target releas aren't lower than what you have now
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25[00:08:36] <hemebond> Would it perhaps be better to adjust the priorities for these packages?
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37[00:17:16] <jhutchins> hemebond: Main is always supposed to have higher priority than backports so that other packages don't get sucked in, just the ones you specified.
38[00:18:05] <jhutchins> hemebond: It's supposed to resolve version dependencies against backports, but you could just specify both packages.
39[00:18:18] <jhutchins> hemebond: Which tool are you using to install?
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42[00:18:57] <jhutchins> Always preferable to use the official -t <package> method rather than messing with default prioities.
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46[00:21:47] <tomreyn> hemebond: actually i think this statement was wrong or misleading, using '-t release' should allow you to override default priorities b< temporarily raising the target release priorities (i forgot the details, please check the man page) <tomreyn> i.e. -t will only work if priorities of the target releas aren't lower than what you have now
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50[00:23:11] <jhutchins> hemebond: Yeah, sorry, -t jessie-backports - release not package.
51[00:23:56] <jhutchins> tomreyn: I believe backports is always a lower priority than the main release.
52[00:24:14] <jhutchins> tomreyn: Otherwise if you did a general "apt upgrade" you'd get everything.
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56[00:26:24] <hemebond> Thanks for the tips.
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58[00:26:48] <hemebond> Turns out that even after installing the software still doesn't work properly :-(
59[00:26:53] <hemebond> Oh well :-)
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61[00:28:05] <jt> my bro just took a selfie with rms at the airport
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73[00:32:09] <tomreyn> jhutchins: corrrct, but...
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75[00:32:11] <tomreyn> -t, --target-release, --default-release
76[00:32:11] <tomreyn> This option controls the default input to the policy engine; it creates a default pin at priority 990 using the specified release string. This overrides the general settings in /etc/apt/preferences. Specifically pinned
77[00:32:11] <tomreyn> packages are not affected by the value of this option. In short, this option lets you have simple control over which distribution packages will be retrieved from. Some common examples might be -t '2.1*', -t unstable or -t
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81[00:32:41] <tomreyn> sorry for the flood
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87[00:33:42] <Epx998> My d-i preseed/late_command string commands are failing, do all commands require in-target ?
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99[00:39:24] <jhutchins> tomreyn: Note the release version shown there. It's been a long time since pinning was used to mix releases and that was supported at all. (Except approved backports.)
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103[00:41:05] <jhutchins> hemebond: Not sure what you're trying to do, but ngnix has been fully functional in stable for a while now.
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106[00:41:50] <hemebond> jhutchins: Yeah I've found the issue. Debian has been moving to dynamic modules since 1.9 so nginx.conf now needs to include the modules-enabled directory.
107[00:42:31] <jhutchins> hemebond: Heh, headed down the Apache road. (Make sure you don't try to use Apache modules.)
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187[01:21:10] <ForceRecon> what?
188[01:21:54] <ForceRecon> I went back 1 hour and still am not following the story.. what is the problem with the modules
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192[01:22:11] <ForceRecon> just listening but trying to follow
193[01:22:14] <ForceRecon> sory
194[01:23:00] <hemebond> ForceRecon: I was trying to install a backported version of nginx and trying to use a particular module. Turns out Debian has moved to dynamic nginx modules and you must have a particular include line in your config to actually enable the dynamic modules.
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203[01:27:37] <hemebond> jhutchins: I'm about ready to go back to Apache. At least there it seemed to just work.
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205[01:27:57] <hemebond> Now I've got things installed by it isn't creating the module configs or anything :-(
206[01:28:02] <hemebond> *but it
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214[01:30:30] <ForceRecon> okay.. gonna be honest here.. whoa.. anyone actually attempt this for a purpose? I don't want to give out the wrong information or suggest something stupid..
215[01:30:46] <ForceRecon> Ops????
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217[01:30:55] <ForceRecon> please intrude
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229[01:34:55] <dmtd> Hi All! I need to use lsyncd to watch and sync two different source folders locally to two different remote folders, respectively. I also want to do this with rsyncd over a custom daemon. Doesn't seem like anyone has done this. Any ideas?
230[01:35:05] <hemebond> Is ForceRecon a spam bot or something?
231[01:35:13] <hemebond> Or is someone commenting that I can't see?
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233[01:35:25] <dmtd> I had the same thought hemebond
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235[01:36:46] <dmtd> btw by custom daemon I mean a custom port running rsync:// protocol connecting to rsyncd on remote
236[01:37:20] <ForceRecon> no I am a person who is thinking about what is being said and having not had the issue I am asking for help from someone who may have had the same issue or tried to do what is being asked.. that is how it works correct?
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238[01:37:52] <hemebond> ForceRecon: Are you referring to my issue?
239[01:38:10] <ForceRecon> I understand that saying nothing in IRC is usual, but I did comment and I am also at this point asking for assistance
240[01:38:15] <ForceRecon> yes
241[01:38:16] <dmtd> ForeceRecon: Punctuation is important and will improve readability! :)
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249[01:38:51] <hemebond> ForceRecon: What is it you think I'm doing? Something wrong with installing a package from jessie-backports?
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257[01:44:17] <ForceRecon> I thnk you are trying to get specific items from a specific place and based on what your settings are there is no priority to what repos things are specifically being pulled.. So you are trying to get a result but there is no way to pull exactly what you need from the places you need because the dependencies are not that smart
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260[01:45:05] <hemebond> Yeah, that's what surprised me. The version I want is available so when it didn't find it I figured the priority was breaking it.
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262[01:45:20] <hemebond> I don't really understand why it couldn't figure it out.
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266[01:47:15] <ForceRecon> and I am sorry to say I don't either.. That is why I am asking for help and don't want to be a burden any further... Sorry I contributed but did not resolve..
267[01:47:41] <hemebond> Nah that's fine. It's very annoying and strange but I can work around it.
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270[01:48:08] <hemebond> Unfortunately it seems I have to purge everything nginx just to fix something, e.g., get the module conf files.
271[01:49:27] <hemebond> Okay, nope, even purging everything and reinstalling doesn't create the files.
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274[01:49:32] <hemebond> I have no idea where they came from.
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277[01:49:49] <ForceRecon> so sorry I don't know.. truly.
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289[02:01:14] <hemebond> I still can't get this damn module to load. Even manual symlinking fails.
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307[02:10:49] <hemebond> Finally got it.
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327[02:20:02] <TheDrode> Hi! build/core/config_sanitizers.mk:49: *** frameworks/base/cmds/app_process: app_process__asan: Use of sanitizers requires LOCAL_CLANG := true. Stop.
328[02:20:09] <TheDrode> anyone has a clue about this?
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348[02:36:09] <echosystm> is there any way to basically install *all* non-free drivers?
349[02:36:18] <echosystm> i'd like to make a usb debian that will run anywhere
350[02:36:27] <echosystm> disk space is a non-issue
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385[02:54:21] <omajid> hi! is there something in the debian packaging policy manual that says "packages shoudln't install files in /home" ?
386[02:54:41] <omajid> it sounds pretty obvious to me, but i need to show this to someone and i can't trust them to read between the lines.
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388[02:55:25] <rj1> lol
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393[02:58:46] <at0m> omajid: i can imagine systems that do not have a /home
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396[02:59:29] <omajid> at0m: this piece of code i am looking at actually reads the user via SUDO_USER and then actually finds their home, i think :S
397[03:00:04] <at0m> could be a systemuser with /var/lib/$systemuser home
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399[03:00:12] <omajid> i kind of want to stop them at "looking at SUDO_USER" in postinst script...
400[03:00:39] <at0m> i don't have sudo here
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404[03:01:08] <at0m> as in "it's not installed"
405[03:01:37] <omajid> i can so many problems with this piece of code.
406[03:01:39] <omajid> can see, even.
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408[03:02:17] <at0m> or think of embedded systems without sudo or /home
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415[03:07:40] <at0m> omajid: or ask in #debian-mentors on OFTC network, there's for (aspiring) developers
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424[03:11:03] <glick> hi
425[03:11:12] <glick> hi does anyone have a thinkpad x200?
426[03:11:34] <at0m> omajid: replaced-url
427[03:12:13] <at0m> glick: you're the only one. do you have an issue with it?
428[03:12:31] <glick> indeed i do have an issue with it
429[03:12:35] <glick> namely the sound isnt working
430[03:12:48] <at0m> !ask
431[03:12:48] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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433[03:12:56] <glick> no sound from speaker but when i plug in a headphones it works, and microphone works too
434[03:13:05] <glick> im wondering if the speaker or sound card may be broken
435[03:13:13] <omajid> at0m: thanks!
436[03:13:13] <mutante> glick: mixer settings? aumix -v 100 ?
437[03:13:23] <at0m> nothing muted in alsamixer ?
438[03:13:47] <mutante> if soundcard was broken, you wouldn't hear it in headphones either, imho
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440[03:14:12] <glick> yeah mutante in pavucontrol all the sound is at 100% levels
441[03:14:17] <glick> maybe just a broken speaker?
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443[03:15:20] <mutante> plugin headphone into the same line-out (?) you are using with speaker?
444[03:15:29] <at0m> glick: pulseaudio sits on top of alsa. check alsa mixer settings
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446[03:15:48] <at0m> mutante: laptop speakers, hard-ired
447[03:15:50] <glick> hmm how do i open up alsa mixer?
448[03:15:54] <glick> alsamixer?
449[03:15:54] <at0m> *hard-wired
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451[03:16:14] <at0m> glick: yes, or via aumix as mutante suggested
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455[03:18:48] <glick> i dont have the aumix command
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458[03:19:36] <glick> shouldnt a system beep still be heard if i beep the terminal?
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461[03:21:17] <glick> i also get an acpi warning: systemIO range 9084209384203948230948230948 conflicts with OpRegion 3298503498530589blablabla
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463[03:21:26] <glick> the numbers are made up
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468[03:23:39] <bismusus> is debian planning on jumping on the wayland train?
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472[03:24:52] <xY2GZDp9Kt3> Probably, they jumped on systemd train, also now that Mir is over Wayland is only option
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477[03:27:32] <bismusus> I read in a single article that I can't find again that the devs that were hired by Canonical to work on Mir are going to go rogue and release it anyway
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530[04:09:49] <prussian> bismusus: if you're running GNOME 3 you have a wayland only option with XWayland as backup
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532[04:10:04] <prussian> at least on Sid/Stretch....so ya
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534[04:10:17] <prussian> i guess?
535[04:10:45] <bismusus> great
536[04:10:48] <bismusus> to openbsd I guess
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538[04:11:34] <prussian> uh ok...
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542[04:12:02] <prussian> I don't get ehy you care. you have XWayland in the iterim.
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642[05:23:27] <victorqueiroz> Why OS X font rendering is so god?
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644[05:23:44] <Hyp3ri0n> .gm
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646[05:24:46] <victorqueiroz> Is Ubuntu fontconfig really patched to look better?
647[05:25:29] <joze> no
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649[05:25:58] <victorqueiroz> Why it font rendering on Ubuntu / OS X looks so good?
650[05:26:01] <victorqueiroz> I would like to have my Debian like that
651[05:26:08] <victorqueiroz> But I don't want to use Ubuntu
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653[05:28:45] <aypea[1]> sacrificial goats.
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661[05:31:48] <aaro> victorqueiroz, you wont get same as osx but ouy can achieve something similar with some configs lke hintstyle=hintnone
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838[07:46:47] <Atm0spher1c> i noticed apt upgrade on stretch/sid just cleared /var/cache/apt/archives. is this standard now?
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859[07:56:57] <jelly> Atm0spher1c: is it stretch or sid?
860[07:57:26] <jelly> Atm0spher1c: pastebin the output of your "apt-cache policy" and "apt-cache policy apt"
861[07:57:41] <jelly> (doesn't happen here on stretch)
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863[07:58:18] <Atm0spher1c> both for me
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865[07:59:26] <jelly> !paste
866[07:59:26] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: replaced-url
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882[08:05:17] <Atm0spher1c> jelly, replaced-url
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887[08:07:24] <jelly> looks sane. Maybe you have something in apt.conf(.d)
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892[08:11:59] <Atm0spher1c> jelly, only added this replaced-url
893[08:12:08] <Atm0spher1c> same as i had on jessie
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902[08:20:45] <jelly> also try asking in
903[08:20:48] <jelly> !debian-next
904[08:20:48] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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977[09:14:42] <tp43_> anyone can trouble shoot google-chrome or chromium, they crash on me and I have to reboot my system to restart them properly.
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1019[09:43:59] <setra> I setup wheezy and can only ssh into it as root, as soon as I use a different user I get the motd and a disconnect. also if I su another user nothing happens
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1028[09:47:45] <High_Priest> setra, broken /home and/or /home/user permissions?
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1039[09:52:18] <setra> High_Priest, /home or /home/user broken? what do you mean by broken, I can access it and ls -la gives proper rights and ownership
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1041[09:52:58] <setra> High_Priest, and user was created by adduser otheruser -m
1042[09:53:11] <High_Priest> setra, so what happens if you "su - user" from root?
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1044[09:53:51] <setra> High_Priest, su just does nothing no error no nothing no log
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1046[09:54:07] <setra> just as if it did not happen
1047[09:54:18] <High_Priest> just a newline ?
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1050[09:54:46] <High_Priest> and you remain root? can you verify with "whoami" ?
1051[09:54:47] <setra> High_Priest, yes a newline
1052[09:55:04] <setra> just verified -> root
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1054[09:55:32] <High_Priest> and have you tried different user?
1055[09:55:52] <setra> very interresting is that if I ssh into the machine that I can login with the users password, then I get a MOTD and a disconnect
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1058[09:57:05] <setra> I have tried a couple of users all the same... login -> pass -> motd -> disconnect
1059[09:57:07] <High_Priest> setra, and which shell is set for that user? cat /etc/passwd | grep user
1060[09:57:12] <setra> bash
1061[09:57:23] <setra> /bin/bash
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1065[09:58:58] <setra> I also copied a .bashrc and a .profile into directory but does not make a difference
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1067[09:59:34] <setra> I tried to google it but all cases are a little different like all users but root can log in.
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1069[10:00:12] <High_Priest> can you show the output of ls -la /home/user ?
1070[10:00:20] <setra> this is so odd, specially that I get a message of the day and in the authlog I get disconnected by user
1071[10:00:54] <High_Priest> setra, looks like shell/permissions problem
1072[10:01:13] <rephlexie> what does log/auth say?
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1075[10:02:06] <setra> authlog verifies the connection all good and then disconnected by user
1076[10:02:10] <setra> replaced-url
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1082[10:03:00] <High_Priest> setra, and inside of the user home dir? ls -la
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1088[10:05:14] <zprd> hi
1089[10:05:25] <setra> replaced-url
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1091[10:06:21] <rephlexie> hmm.
1092[10:06:21] <zprd> is this still accurate replaced-url
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1096[10:07:25] <setra> High_Priest, all looks unsuspicious replaced-url
1097[10:07:38] <High_Priest> right, looks okay
1098[10:08:12] <setra> I read something about /etc/security/access.conf .... but everything is commented out
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1100[10:09:40] <rephlexie> setra, you could try disabling pam in sshd.conf, if that works still got to fix it though
1101[10:10:02] <setra> ok I will try that now
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1103[10:12:03] <Atm0spher1c> setra, when you get motd, press ctrl-c. what happens? Also, look at ssh -v
1104[10:12:14] <setra> rephlexie, UsePAM no -> same result
1105[10:12:53] <rephlexie> setra, damn, thats frustrating
1106[10:14:37] <setra> rephlexie, yes... so damm odd -> here ssh -v replaced-url
1107[10:15:40] <jelly> ,v openssh-client
1108[10:15:41] <judd> Package: openssh-client on amd64 -- wheezy: 1:6.0p1-4+deb7u4; wheezy-security: 1:6.0p1-4+deb7u6; wheezy-backports: 1:6.6p1-4~bpo70+1; jessie: 1:6.7p1-5+deb8u3; jessie-security: 1:6.7p1-5+deb8u3; sid: 1:7.4p1-10; stretch: 1:7.4p1-10; experimental: 1:7.5p1-3
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1110[10:16:21] <setra> Atm0spher1c, replaced-url
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1114[10:18:36] <jelly> setra: does /bin/bash work at all? Can you run it as root?
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1118[10:21:29] <setra> jelly, /bin/bash just does nothing unlike my machine I get at least an echo from customized .bashrc
1119[10:22:37] <jelly> setra: does it open a new shell or not? type: "echo $$", then run /bin/bash, then "echo $$" again
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1122[10:23:27] <setra> jelly, Ok...always another PID
1123[10:23:57] <jelly> so it opens a new shell, it doesn't just die.
1124[10:24:16] <jelly> except when logging it it appears to do just that
1125[10:24:17] <setra> Atm0spher1c, Well I could never be fast enough to ctrl-c
1126[10:24:33] <jelly> setra: do you have any customizations in /etc/profile ?
1127[10:24:37] <setra> jelly, It opens a new shell and did not die
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1133[10:26:52] <rokra> Hello, someone is able to explain how works sound under linux , I have some issue with sound and I m little bit lost with alsa / pulseaudio .. do I need both ?
1134[10:27:27] <setra> jelly, not at all
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1137[10:29:33] <babilen> rokra: Pulseaudio sits on top of Alsa, so yeah
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1139[10:31:21] <jelly> setra: if you run " su - cnc -c '/bin/bash -f' ", does that work
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1146[10:32:36] <setra> jelly, just a newline no error no comment
1147[10:32:44] <jelly> echo $?
1148[10:32:57] <jelly> ^^ immediately after su exits
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1150[10:33:30] <jelly> does it exit? Or do you get a new line without prompt?
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1152[10:33:43] <setra> jelly, 137
1153[10:33:54] <setra> jelly, newline without a prompt
1154[10:33:54] <jelly> killed by signal 9
1155[10:34:19] <jelly> setra: inspect last 50 lines of dmesg for clues. Or pastebin all of it.
1156[10:34:24] <jelly> (137 = 128 + 9)
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1158[10:34:32] <setra> that's what the log said, killed by user
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1160[10:35:08] <jelly> setra: which log?
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1162[10:35:24] <setra> jelly, /var/log/auth.log
1163[10:35:44] <rokra> babilen: ok thanks , I m already working on 1 user session, sound is going through screen speakers instead of normal speaker, is it a prob of alsa or pulse?
1164[10:36:26] <babilen> rokra: Fire up pavucontrol and choose a different output sink
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1166[10:37:32] <dionysus69> what tools are there to test my pc for cryptographic decryptions
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1170[10:37:48] <dionysus69> for example if I want to decrypt md5 or sha256, what tool would I use
1171[10:37:56] <dionysus69> brute force tool would also be fine
1172[10:38:02] <rokra> babilen: I run pavucontrol and in Output , I have only hdmi available
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1174[10:39:20] <babilen> rokra: How are your "normal speakers" connected? I take it that the screen is connected via HDMI?
1175[10:40:04] <babilen> Did you also check the Configuration tab?
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1177[10:40:19] <rokra> normal speakers are on integrated sound card ( motherboard) with normal sound connectic, screen is in hdmi
1178[10:40:46] <babilen> You might have to use a different soundcard as output then
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1188[10:43:30] <rokra> babilen: I m on good way, in configuration I selected the second option ( internal) and now in output I qsaw both but it s still going by default on screen, still investigating
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1190[10:45:33] <babilen> rokra: Go to the "Playback" tab and select the "internal" one there
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1192[10:46:02] <rokra> babilen: yeap I saw this, it s working
1193[10:46:15] <rokra> babilen: thanks
1194[10:47:00] <babilen> Enjoy
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1197[10:48:37] <rokra> babilen: so the first session is ok, going to the other session because I have no sound on the other one :) coming back
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1203[10:51:53] <christor> babilen: ok working also in other session with pavucontrol :) the internal one was not correctly configured, really thanks
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1210[10:54:50] <babilen> christor: Wonderful .. enjoy some funky beats
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1221[11:01:23] <Aristar> still having trouble wrapping my head around how apt /actually/ interprets preferences/preferences.d pinning after years, and yes I've RTFM dozens of times. when tracking and cherry picking various repos i seem to always end up needing Pin: release o=foo,n=bar,l=foobar
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1224[11:02:20] <Aristar> like, if you have proposed repos enabled and you pin a package from that n= would it still choose from a proposed if the prior pin for proposed is lower?
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1227[11:03:32] <Aristar> or just ignore it if /every/ o, a, n, l, etc isn't overridden later on in a preferences file?
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1239[11:09:15] <Aristar> example: you have stable=-10, testing=500, sid=50, but also have n={stable,testing,sid}-proposed=5 pinned. later in preferences file you want foo* with a=testing = 990 - would that still pull in the n=testing-proposed as 990?
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1242[11:10:25] <Aristar> ...i probably need to do a lot more trial and error but hoping someone here can save me a lot of time since advanced pinning isn't really documented well
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1246[11:10:58] <Aristar> then there's origins which gets even more confusing
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1252[11:12:55] <Aristar> my guess is the above scenario apt would choose 990 since the n= wasn't specified, meaning you need to override the pinned override of the base origins/releases?
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1256[11:14:30] <Aristar> ...so two lines per package? ugh, this would be easier if it supported syntax like n=foo, != n=bar
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1265[11:18:15] <Aristar> (and yeah I currently have about 30 repos i track, so this is getting a bit out of hand... trying to rewrite my preferences in split out parts numbered by priority apt should read them)
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1287[11:27:33] <Aristar> ...also unclear if "Pin:" line supports wildcards on 'release' and 'origin' but i suppose i need to do some trial & error, sorry for the noise. hoping someone could save me some hours of trial & error
1288[11:28:54] <Aristar> (like if you have mirrors setup, you might have ftp.us.debian.org otherwise like ftp.debian.org, in which the latter wouldn't match your repos AFAIK)
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1295[11:31:29] <Aristar> (...and security.debian.org which would be convenient if it could be like *.debian.org or maybe just omitting anything before the TLD automatically wildcards anything ending in that name?)
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1305[11:34:12] <Aristar> (or being able to specify multiple APT::Default-Release could reduce pinning complexity in a lot of cases)
1306[11:35:01] <babilen> Aristar: replaced-url
1307[11:35:26] <babilen> I have to wonder why you try so hard to descent into the realm of madness though
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1309[11:35:47] <glick> i will soon be ditching my mac
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1320[11:39:27] <Aristar> babilen: thanks, useful info. yes it is madness/chaos and hard to predict apt's behavior. i like to track a lot of repos in order to A: cherry pick compatible packages, or B: download source and debianize it (but still get notified of updates). there's probably better ways i could do this though
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1323[11:41:03] <babilen> "cherry pick compatible packages" is, essentially, what Debian is doing for you (if you were to stick to either stable or a testing/unstable mix)
1324[11:41:30] <babilen> I mean that's one of the major ideas behind a "distribution" :)
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1327[11:41:55] <Aristar> yeah which i'm not, i have a lot of others which aren't in debian and have various release lines
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1329[11:42:11] <Aristar> l= not supporting Package: * explains a lot
1330[11:42:39] <Aristar> now i wonder if c= does but i'll do some testing
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1332[11:43:11] <Aristar> like, i prefer experimental/contrib being a bit lower for example
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1339[11:48:02] <Aristar> babilen: and RE: cherry pick [...] is essentially, what Debian is doing for you: not in all cases, many extras like themes/icons etc aren't in any of the repos and i like to track repos that do maintain the latest versions, for one example
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1341[11:49:29] <babilen> Aristar: That "errata" really should be incorporated into the manpage. It's essential information.
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1343[11:50:14] <Aristar> yeah, though sometimes I wonder what percentage of debian devs /actually/ know how apt works anymore
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1346[11:51:17] <Aristar> it's great if used as intended, which seems to be... low complexity, as it tends to trip up over a lot of stuff
1347[11:52:32] <babilen> I'm working professionally with Debian and other Linux distributions and have been using Debian for many years. Frankly, I didn't have the need to come up with complex pinning schemes and would consider them to be a "code smell"
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1349[11:52:43] <babilen> Maybe a different distribution is better suited to your needs?
1350[11:53:30] <Aristar> believe me, I've tried nearly all the viable ones... none of them meet the most of my requirement criteria as debian
1351[11:53:55] <babilen> I'm not saying that because it shouldn't be possible and do agree that it *should* be clear and straightforward to define this, but it really is a niche application
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1353[11:54:40] <babilen> Yeah, Debian has a lot going for it, but "mixing a multitude of repositories and Debian releases" is simply not what it was designed for nor something that is really supported
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1356[11:54:56] <Aristar> yeah unfortuantely :(
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1358[11:55:23] <Donatas> Can someone suggest how to easily solve python linux encoding issue when switching from windows (i.e. cannot run django python project which contain characters such as "ČĘĖ", and get python encoding error)
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1360[11:55:27] <babilen> There's nothing inherently wrong with it, but you will be told that your system is a "Frankendebian" or "unsupportable" which is, if you *really* look at it simply not true. The tools just don't cope well with a setup like that.
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1362[11:55:36] <Donatas> windows was running smoothly
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1365[11:56:04] <Donatas> would ubuntu base have this issue solved ?
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1368[11:56:30] <babilen> Donatas: Use utf8 and set the encoding in your Python modules -- replaced-url
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1378[11:59:16] <Aristar> RE: debian tools; there seems to be a tad too many of those to handle the various corner cases and build systems lol. and as far as package managers go, yeah there's others that handle this better but often litter the filesystem with junk. I also don't consider most other (non-ancient) repos to be mature and/or have enough packages in them
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1382[12:00:06] <Aristar> need degree in rocket science to decode the complex structure of the scripts that run the scripts that run the other scripts to run the real scripts
1383[12:00:15] <bitcoinx> what is the right place to set an environment variable like QMAKESPEC for qmake? in local .bashrc?
1384[12:00:40] <Donatas> cool, thanks will try this. I have another issue, postgresql in debian works a bit differently than in windows. In windows when you install it you get one user postgre with password that you set during installation. Pretty simple. In debian, postgre is somehow bound to su etc. I do not really understand the concept, but I know that my django project can not access this postgre username in debian because it is part of su. What would be the
1385[12:00:40] <Donatas> easy solution, all I want is for django project to have access to database with full privileges?
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1387[12:01:53] <Donatas> (django is within virtualenv if this makes any difference)
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1441[12:33:53] <hdmicam> there is a package called autoclass, but it is hard to understand how to use it properly, I fail to find tutorials and examples showcasing its features?
1442[12:34:08] <celyr> Mhm
1443[12:34:17] <celyr> why they deprecated open-vm-toold-dkms
1444[12:34:24] <celyr> built in in kernel now ?
1445[12:34:26] <celyr> tools*
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1454[12:40:39] <lignux> Hello, i normally would not write here but i am trying to fix this for 2 days and i can't google my way out of it. I am trying to boot from usb but everytime i select it it hangs on a black screen that says "Attempting to boot from USB device" and then "GRUB" on the next line. It just hangs like that. I tried different distros i tried different methods for making the usb bootable nothing and always got the same results. Anyone had a similar issue?
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1457[12:42:36] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
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1459[12:46:43] <brontosaurusrex> lignux: dd?
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1462[12:47:16] <brontosaurusrex> lignux: my notes say: use replaced-url
1463[12:47:26] <lignux> brontosaurusrex, yes. Tried with dd and then when i lost hope i tried unetbootin also but with the same result
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1465[12:47:51] <lignux> i only have debian rufus its windows only afaik?
1466[12:48:07] <brontosaurusrex> Yes.
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1468[12:49:05] <lignux> Can't use it. I mean i could try with wine or something
1469[12:49:19] <lignux> But why would dd fail me? It has never failed me before
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1473[12:50:34] <babilen> lignux: Did you try different USB sticks? And how exactly did you create the installer?
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1476[12:51:21] <lignux> babilen, yes i tried two. The one i always use and have used to install the current distro i use and a brand new one that i opened just in case the former was corrupt or something and they both produced the same result.
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1478[12:51:38] <lignux> babilen, tried with dd and unetbootin both did the same thing
1479[12:52:07] <brontosaurusrex> lignux: I don't have "why", but i do remember dd failing and rufus doing fine.
1480[12:52:21] <babilen> What was the dd command you used?
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1482[12:52:47] <lignux> babilen, sudo dd if=/path/to/iso of=/dev/usbstick
1483[12:52:48] <babilen> fwiw, we currently recommend "cp /path/to/debian.iso /dev/sdX;sync" (with /dev/sdX being something like /dev/sdb)
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1486[12:53:12] <babilen> That should™ have been perfectly fine. Which installer did you use for Debian?>
1487[12:53:56] <Aristar> some systems don't like USB drives in raw ISO format unfortunately, in which cases a bootable stick (which rufus and unetbootin creates) /SHOULD/ work... but i have no idea why it isn't for you
1488[12:54:05] <lignux> I had a 8 jessie iso on my hd and i also tried several other distros just in case but they all did the same
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1494[12:54:49] <babilen> lignux: Could you try replaced-url
1495[12:54:50] <lignux> i just read on a forum question of a similar issue that the guy formated his usb to NTFS and for some reason that worked. Havn't tried that yet
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1497[12:55:08] <Aristar> i think rufus and unetbootin just basically create a syslinux loader that loads the real image/rootfs but maybe can fail on those new fangled multi-boot efi/bios ISOs
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1499[12:55:28] <babilen> lignux: The filesystem shouldn't matter as you are overwriting the *entire* stick. Just for info: Which was the actual command you used?
1500[12:55:29] <Aristar> hybrid iso*
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1502[12:55:40] <lignux> babilen, sure i tried everything else ill give this a go
1503[12:56:21] <babilen> replaced-url
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1505[12:56:58] <lignux> Okay everyone thank you for your help. I will try formating the usb to NTFS see how that goes and then ill try the installer babilen recommended. Ill be back shortly if those two don't work. Thanks again much appreciated
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1508[12:59:10] <BluesKaj> unetbootin isn't very reliable, disk creator works well on linux and Rufus should work on windows for bootable inages on USB...dd on linus works well, but be careful with it
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1510[12:59:34] <BluesKaj> on linux
1511[13:02:02] <babilen> I don't see the point of dd .. just more to type
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1514[13:03:38] * BluesKaj shrugs ...it's not that difficult
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1530[13:12:17] <SpeedyG> yay, just upgraded from Jessie to Stretch on my desktop.... went very smooth :) *happy*
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1538[13:16:22] <crash_> :)
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1545[13:19:46] <SpeedyG> first time since woody that an upgrade went smooth for me ...
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1547[13:20:20] <BluesKaj> SpeedyG, you'll be surprised how stable stretch already is.
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1552[13:21:06] <SpeedyG> BluesKaj: I hope so :) this is my main desktop machine ..
1553[13:21:27] <SpeedyG> been quite hesitant to upgrade due to the previous experiences... but this went surprisingly smooth :)
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1555[13:22:30] <BluesKaj> using a devel OS is a bit chancey for your main OS , SpeedyG
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1557[13:22:58] <SpeedyG> I know, but since its frozen now, and just before release... i'll take the chance ;)
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1561[13:23:52] <BluesKaj> afaik we're still receiving updates/upgrades
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1581[13:30:09] <snape> I'm looking for the default debian linux-kernel config file. Is there a place where it can be found by a non-debian user?
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1583[13:30:36] <snape> Well, I'm pretty sure there is, but I can't find it
1584[13:31:09] <snape> KernelFAQ says it's in /boot/config-something, but since I'm not using debian I can't access it
1585[13:31:23] <snape> And I can't find it on replaced-url
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1592[13:35:26] <ballessay> snape: the package you found is a meta package... check its "dep"... e. g. replaced-url
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1596[13:36:09] <snape> ballessay: got it, thanks :)
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1612[13:45:28] <bitcoinx> what is the right place to set an environment variable like QMAKESPEC for qmake? in local .bashrc?
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1614[13:45:45] <sine0> I have a home server with debian(of course) its an i5 with 8gb ram. I also need to have windows server 2012r2. what is the best way to run both, vm from debian or the other way round hyper-v or a vmware manager
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1623[13:49:51] <ballessay> bitcoinx: why would you want to set that env wide? Just specify the '-spec' parameter when you call qmake. But yes, .bashrc would work
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1652[14:11:16] <hid3> Greetings everyone. I am setting up a new box with Debian 9. I need to make a script which would launch the iptables rules. Does anyone have a how-to on making simple startup scripts using systemd (properly)?
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1661[14:14:59] <BluesKaj> hid3, check this out, replaced-url
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1665[14:15:45] <hid3> sounds promising, thanks a lot
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1673[14:20:09] <bitcoinx> ballessay: because I don't want to type that spec string every time I compile the program?
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1675[14:20:26] <bitcoinx> and to prevent me from forgetting it ;)
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1682[14:23:48] <ballessay> well ok. just out of curiosity, to what do you change the spec (from linux-g++)?
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1696[14:34:39] <SpeedyG> hm, after upgrading to stretch, my network-config has become read-only. Can't change nything with nmcli or NetworkManager.. is that a known issue and is there something that I can do to make the configuration editable again?
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1702[14:36:36] <bitcoinx> ballessay: hmm, the qmake .pro file of one program I am using expects the spec to be linux-g++-32 for 32 bit systems, to make a compiler setting that only applies to 32 bit GCC
1703[14:36:58] <bitcoinx> so that's why I'm trying to make my spec be with -32 at the end
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1765[15:06:41] <Aristar> well, just when I thought I mapped out apt pinning's chain of priorities as far as origins, releases, and the letters go... it still doesn't do what I think it does. I think we need a flow chart here.... lol
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1767[15:07:02] * Aristar facedesks
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1801[15:27:05] <ForceRecon> when it comes to linux in general. How does one learn all the terminal commands? I mean, if you have no reason to use them then why would you ever learn them. In windows when you look for a file in cmd you ask dir file*.* /s and it searches... in linux there is find, locate, etc.. what do most people use?
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1804[15:28:12] <GNU\colossus> the right tool for the job :) `locate` only concults a database, while `find` actually traverses the directory tree.
1805[15:28:19] <GNU\colossus> consults*
1806[15:28:37] <GNU\colossus> personally, I use find, since ssd-based systems are fast enough for that these days
1807[15:28:39] <Older_Dog> replaced-url
1808[15:28:48] <ForceRecon> thanks for information
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1814[15:31:19] <bitcoinx> ForceRecon: learn to use google, and look up what you need. Simple :)
1815[15:31:52] <bitcoinx> it doesn't make sense to learn something you don't need
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1818[15:33:27] <celyr> how big is a debian mirror ?
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1823[15:35:53] <ForceRecon> replaced-url
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1825[15:37:02] <jpw> ForceRecon: you'll pick them up over time. I highly reccomend books over google as they usually explain the 'why' factor a bit better
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1831[15:39:07] <ForceRecon> thanks again.. I will check out what people are suggesting on amazon and find a decent book. Learn while you do linux.. etc.. thanks..
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1836[15:40:57] <jpw> I also suggest setting up game servers using the command line. Youll learn a lot about using text editors, command line, process management etc.
1837[15:41:14] <jpw> and you have instant gratification
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1863[15:51:46] <jhutchins> ForceRecon: replaced-url
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1866[15:52:22] <tga1> greetings. I'm trying to make a bootable usb stick from an iso -- the iso is bootable in vmware locally, but the stick isn't bootable in either vmware or a real machine
1867[15:52:34] <celyr> ok too big for a local repository it's not worth
1868[15:52:36] <gaetanov62> Greetings to all
1869[15:52:40] <tga1> any ideas on what could be missing to make a stick bootable and how to check/fix that?
1870[15:52:46] <jhutchins> tga1: What tool are you using?
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1872[15:53:04] <tga1> jhutchins: only dd with bs=1M
1873[15:53:12] <jhutchins> celyr: Lots of stuff in there you don't need.
1874[15:53:21] <jhutchins> tga1: exact command?
1875[15:53:34] <tga1> dd if=my.iso of=/dev/sdd bs=1M
1876[15:53:41] <gaetanov62> after last mate update it's impossible to change wallpaper
1877[15:53:50] <tw> ForceRecon: find vs locate, use the right tool for the job; find can search subtrees and create complex criteria, locate is very fast for filename searching (like 1M files in 1 sec on an okay machine)
1878[15:54:01] <gaetanov62> it remain at default wallpaper
1879[15:54:14] <tga1> what does a stick need to have to be bootable and how do I check that manually?
1880[15:54:32] <gaetanov62> on debian stretch
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1883[15:55:00] <tw> tga1: isos are not inherently bootable from USB. They need to be hybrid images.
1884[15:55:22] <tga1> it's an esxi install iso, and it's bootable on vmware directly
1885[15:55:36] <ForceRecon> thanks everyone.. I have that information copied to an email draft.. so I can refer to those sites and the definitions. Read Read Read
1886[15:56:53] <gaetanov62> how can I report this bug?
1887[15:57:07] * tga1 wonders whether this may be a machine problem and the stick is alright
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1889[15:58:52] <tga1> nope, just checked with another machine
1890[15:59:02] <jhutchins> tga1: Nothing wrong with your method.
1891[15:59:35] <tga1> so interesting situation, I can boot this iso in vmware, but if I dd it onto a stick, the stick is not bootable on 2 machines
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1893[16:01:02] <tw> tga1: it can have an el torito boot image without being usb bootable. you can use unetbootin or similar to convert it.
1894[16:01:17] <gaetanov62> debian stretch mate impossible to change wallpaper
1895[16:01:25] <tga1> that's why I was asking what makes a stick bootable, not sure what to check
1896[16:01:41] <gaetanov62> is this the right place to report bugS?
1897[16:01:51] <tga1> I'm not on windows, how do you make a bootable usb on linux?
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1900[16:03:03] <Older_Dog> Etcher is one way. Multibootusb is another RosaImageWriter is another
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1905[16:04:21] <ForceRecon> This is fantastic for windows, wonder if they make it for linux - replaced-url
1906[16:05:23] <Older_Dog> regrettably the author of Rufus has no intention of porting it to Linux.
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1910[16:06:13] <tga1> well guis are nice and all, but what's the proper way of writing a non-mbr iso to a usb stick?
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1912[16:06:31] <tga1> I'm not even looking at EFI yet
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1916[16:07:25] <Older_Dog> you lost me.
1917[16:07:30] <tga1> oh there is a linux version of unetbootin I see
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1922[16:08:38] <mjr0> How can I best per application decide wether I want it from the stable or unstable repository? Should I just add sid as a source?
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1926[16:09:36] <dontknow> mjr0, don't mix these two
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1928[16:10:04] <tga1> replaced-url
1929[16:10:13] <tga1> this is pretty much my issue, I'm trying solutions now
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1936[16:13:04] <jhutchins_wk> tga1: You could try using a standard Debian installer image.
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1939[16:13:22] <mjr0> dontknow: well there is one application which is three years newer than the one in the jessie repository. I am experiencing problems which are solved by updating so my interest is in updating to the version in the unstable repository. How am I best about doing that?
1940[16:13:32] <tga1> jhutchins_wk: this isn't a debian image, I'm writing it on debian
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1943[16:13:54] <tga1> with debian images I've had no issues with just dd to the usb stick
1944[16:14:01] <tga1> from the looks of it, this image may not be hybrid
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1946[16:14:55] <tga1> alright, I'm in business, what worked for me was isohybrid
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1948[16:15:24] <BluesKaj> what hybrid?
1949[16:15:31] <dontknow> mjr0, maybe you can backport it by compiling
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1951[16:16:24] <tga1> replaced-url
1952[16:16:49] <tga1> BluesKaj: ^^ from what I understand, you can have a iso that works on a cd but to have it work on a usb stick it needs extra stuff in it
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1954[16:17:25] <jhutchins_wk> tga1: Your method of creating the USB is good, you can also use cp or any other copy tool, as long as the destination is the root device vs. a partition.
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1957[16:18:10] <tga1> I never considered it, can you just cp an iso to a block device like that?
1958[16:18:22] <jhutchins_wk> tga1: Because it's just a simple copy operation for Linux there aren't dedicated tools.
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1961[16:18:49] <tga1> good point
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1963[16:19:04] <tga1> what does dd do better than cp though?
1964[16:19:10] <tga1> manually set things like bs?
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1967[16:20:05] <jhutchins_wk> Yes, there can be advantages to using the correct block size, but they're pretty small with today's speeds.
1968[16:20:38] <tga1> I've seen a big speed difference with using oflag=direct
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1971[16:21:25] <tga1> from what I understand it bypasses buffering, but I don't know why that would result in a much faster copy
1972[16:21:47] <jhutchins_wk> I'm not sure, but I think dd writes directly to the device vs. buffer, but it's always a good idea to run sync before removing the device.
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1976[16:21:57] <tga1> yeah, I did do that
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1978[16:22:16] <tga1> and I already have ESXi installing, so it all looks good
1979[16:22:24] <tga1> my enterprise-grade server is almost done, heh
1980[16:22:34] <tga1> (Intel NUC)
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1998[16:29:09] <LessIsMore> Hello on Debian Jessie all jounald captures all logs and then sends them to rsyslog ?
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2036[16:44:07] <tga> after all that runaround with the iso, I managed to boot esxi and wipe my machine only to find out it doesn't like something and it won't install
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2038[16:44:22] <tga> back to debian
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2053[16:51:36] <jhutchins_wk> tga: I've found virtualbox performs a lot better on Debian than VMWare Player. No real comparison to ESXi which is of course the industry standard.
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2059[16:54:43] <tga> jhutchins_wk: I had a little machine with debian and vbox that I wanted to convert to esxi for better management
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2061[16:55:18] <tga> jhutchins_wk: it depends on the host too, vbox is much worse on macos than vmware
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2064[16:56:10] <jhutchins> Yeah, for mac you want parallels.
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2066[16:56:22] <johnkeates> or Veertu
2067[16:56:30] <johnkeates> or xhyve
2068[16:56:31] <tga> I only tried a looong time ago and chose vmware
2069[16:56:43] <tga> sounds like vmware is phasing out their desktop products, iirc they fired the team working on them
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2072[16:57:23] <BluesKaj> I just dual boot, no mucking about with VMs
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2075[16:57:46] <tga> veertu desktop looks interesting, I never knew it even existed
2076[16:57:48] <johnkeates> i run hypervisors inside hypervisors
2077[16:57:57] <tga> why would you do that
2078[16:58:07] <tga> other than testing and such
2079[16:58:18] <greycat> I assume it was a joke.
2080[16:58:36] <johnkeates> sometimes i get a stubborn client that wants to run a crappy or outdated hypervisor causing all sorts of issues
2081[16:58:44] * tga has a linux work vm on mac/vmware, good hardware and power management
2082[16:58:48] <johnkeates> so you install a good hypervisor, enable nesting and then install their hypervisor
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2084[16:59:06] <johnkeates> and blank out stuff like CPUID bits that don't work in the crappy one
2085[16:59:19] <tga> what's a good alternative to esxi for an older machine?
2086[16:59:19] <johnkeates> fix virtual networking issue by recalculating checksums
2087[16:59:20] <tga> xen?
2088[16:59:23] <tga> kvm?
2089[16:59:26] <johnkeates> i always use xen
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2091[16:59:28] <johnkeates> it's the best
2092[16:59:30] <johnkeates> (for me)(
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2095[16:59:53] <tga> I have this little server I want to run multiple things on
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2097[16:59:59] <johnkeates> depending on how old your hardware is, xen might actually be the only thing that will work
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2099[17:00:05] <johnkeates> is it like Core2Duo era hardware?
2100[17:00:08] <johnkeates> then xen will work
2101[17:00:08] <tga> not that bad, i3
2102[17:00:11] <johnkeates> oh
2103[17:00:13] <tga> 2012ish
2104[17:00:24] <johnkeates> then xen and kvm will both work
2105[17:00:32] <tga> which one is easier to manage?
2106[17:00:33] <johnkeates> hyper-v probably won't because it's trash
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2108[17:00:38] <johnkeates> they are both easy
2109[17:00:46] <johnkeates> but easy is relative
2110[17:00:50] <johnkeates> i use the cli, that's easy for me
2111[17:00:58] <johnkeates> other people disagree and only thing a GUI is easy
2112[17:01:04] <tga> I was going for vmware because I already have a bunch of machines for it, but esxi doesn't like me
2113[17:01:08] <zprd> old machine? lxc maybe?
2114[17:01:14] <johnkeates> intel core i3
2115[17:01:18] <johnkeates> not really 'old'
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2117[17:01:38] <tga> cli is easier for minimal use, you don't have to figure out how everything works
2118[17:01:42] <tga> err gui
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2120[17:02:11] <johnkeates> well, on xen, it's like this: you make a file that has the settings for your VM, like CPUs, memory, disks, and then you say: sudo xl create <filename>
2121[17:02:47] <johnkeates> if the vm hangs or crashes or something and you need to virtually stop it: sudo xl destroy <vm-name>
2122[17:02:57] *** Quits: LessIsMore (~oussama@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2123[17:02:58] * tga downloads xen server
2124[17:03:05] <johnkeates> xen server is not 'xen'
2125[17:03:06] <johnkeates> as in
2126[17:03:09] <johnkeates> it is, but it's not
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2128[17:03:26] <johnkeates> Xen Server is 'enterprise' with XE instead of XL
2129[17:03:29] <johnkeates> XL = local
2130[17:03:35] <johnkeates> XE = any xen host anywhere
2131[17:03:50] <johnkeates> XenServer has the advantage that you get XenCenter (GUI)
2132[17:03:55] *** Joins: GenteelBen (~GenteelBe@replaced-ip)
2133[17:03:56] <johnkeates> and there is XenOrchestra (Web GUI)
2134[17:04:12] <tga> I'm trying to get a bare metal hypervisor
2135[17:04:16] <johnkeates> i don't use either and i have my configuration management in SaltStack so i don't want it
2136[17:04:21] <johnkeates> Xen is always a bare metal hypervisor
2137[17:04:27] <tga> ok
2138[17:04:28] <johnkeates> you can't run it in type 2 or type 3 mode
2139[17:04:42] <johnkeates> but XenServer is Xen, plus a minimal Linux system with management tools
2140[17:04:59] <tga> any reason to pick one vs the other?
2141[17:05:11] <johnkeates> i like debian so i install debian, and then apt-get install xen
2142[17:05:23] <johnkeates> and reboot so xen loads and starts debian als de management OS
2143[17:05:33] <johnkeates> for you, I think XenServer is the best choice
2144[17:05:41] <tga> doesn't that mean that it's not bare metal anymore
2145[17:05:44] <johnkeates> no
2146[17:05:45] <tga> if it runs on debian
2147[17:05:47] <johnkeates> no
2148[17:05:51] *** Quits: BluesKaj (~kaj@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2149[17:05:51] <johnkeates> it doesn't run 'on' debian
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2151[17:06:19] <johnkeates> when you install xen with debian, you have to reboot to start xen
2152[17:06:25] <johnkeates> xen then starts debian for you
2153[17:06:34] <johnkeates> and then that debian is now in charge of starting/stopping vm's
2154[17:06:35] <tga> ok
2155[17:06:44] <johnkeates> vmware does the same
2156[17:06:51] <johnkeates> it has a hypervisor kernel and a management kernel
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2158[17:07:07] <tga> yeah but you get their own whatever distro
2159[17:07:08] <johnkeates> hypervisor starts management which does networking, the gui, starting/stopping vm's, storage etc
2160[17:07:11] <johnkeates> exactly
2161[17:07:24] <johnkeates> with XenServer you get Xen + CentOS (but modified)
2162[17:07:34] <tga> debian + xen sounds like a good deal actually
2163[17:07:35] <johnkeates> on Debian you can install Xen, and that gets you Xen + Debian
2164[17:07:52] <tga> thanks, I didn't know you could do that
2165[17:08:02] <tga> I assumed I was stuck with their minimal management distro
2166[17:08:04] <johnkeates> but there is no XenCenter or XenOrchestra for Debian
2167[17:08:12] <johnkeates> so keep that in mind :)
2168[17:08:22] <johnkeates> but i find using Debian to manage VM's is easier
2169[17:08:27] <tga> xencenter is only for windows?
2170[17:08:39] <johnkeates> no, there is a linux version too
2171[17:08:44] <johnkeates> written in Qt IIRC
2172[17:08:48] <johnkeates> i haven't used it in years
2173[17:08:57] <johnkeates> for single server setups, the XL command gets you all you need
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2175[17:09:03] <johnkeates> sudo xl info -> hypervisor information
2176[17:09:08] <johnkeates> sudo xl list -> list of vms
2177[17:09:18] <johnkeates> create/destroy to start/stop a VM
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2179[17:09:36] <johnkeates> sudo xl console <vm name or vm number> and you get a VM shell if that VM has a shell at all
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2182[17:09:55] <tga> I don't expect to do much management, so that sounds enough
2183[17:09:59] <johnkeates> yeah
2184[17:10:03] <johnkeates> there are bout 40 more commands
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2186[17:10:13] <johnkeates> but on a single server basic setup you probably won't use them
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2188[17:10:25] <tga> any thoughts on xen vs kvm?
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2190[17:10:29] <johnkeates> then, if you want those VM's to network, you probably want to connect them to eth0 or eth1
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2192[17:11:01] <johnkeates> so use linux's brctl to create a bridge (i.e. xenbr0) and connect that to eth0 or whatever and in the vm config file you tell it to use that bridge to connect to the net, and then you'll have networking
2193[17:11:10] <johnkeates> i don't use KVM that much anymore
2194[17:11:11] <tga> I assume you can create virtual switches and such with xen
2195[17:11:23] <johnkeates> well, it's not xen's job
2196[17:11:27] <johnkeates> xen is just a hypervisor
2197[17:11:33] <johnkeates> like esxi is only a hypervisor
2198[17:11:38] <tga> ok, so you connect to a virtual adapter
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2200[17:11:41] <johnkeates> the management OS does switches and storage etc
2201[17:11:48] <johnkeates> there are many switching options
2202[17:11:57] <johnkeates> brctl for network bridges is the easiest for beginners
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2204[17:12:11] <johnkeates> but there is openvswitch which is very enterprise-powerful
2205[17:12:16] <johnkeates> and there is NAT
2206[17:12:22] <johnkeates> and local DHCP etc
2207[17:12:24] <johnkeates> whatever you like
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2209[17:13:29] <johnkeates> in Xen terminology, VM's are called domains (since they are a virtual hardware domain), dom0 is the management domain, and domU is any other domain that's not allowed to do anything but just runs as a VM
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2211[17:14:13] <johnkeates> for domains, you have a ton of options: replaced-url
2212[17:15:03] * tga would have preferred something with an aws-like gui to click around and create a few vms
2213[17:15:15] <johnkeates> there is a debian example file with a good explanation: replaced-url
2214[17:15:16] <tga> vmware pretty much does that
2215[17:15:40] <johnkeates> well, the toy interface only works as long as you don't have too many vm's or too many settings to set
2216[17:15:48] <johnkeates> if you want an interface: stick with XenServer
2217[17:16:00] <johnkeates> if you can work form the CLI: use whatever Xen you like
2218[17:16:13] <johnkeates> if you aren't going to do heavy IO loads, KVM would work too
2219[17:16:19] <johnkeates> and you could even use proxmox VE
2220[17:16:29] <johnkeates> which has a AWS interface type thign
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2223[17:17:24] <tga> sounds good
2224[17:18:16] <tga> I didn't know about proxmox either
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2230[17:22:11] <teraflops> I ❤ ProxmoxVE
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2233[17:24:26] <waflessnet> o/
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2238[17:25:37] <greycat> !es
2239[17:25:38] <dpkg> Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat.
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2242[17:26:30] <tga> one of the nice things with vmware and vbox is that I can take a local vm and copy it to the server directly
2243[17:26:41] <tga> with kvm and such I'd have to import the image I guess
2244[17:27:45] <jelly> you have to copy and import a vm with esxi/vsphere as well
2245[17:28:10] <teraflops> greycat: not using proper charset
2246[17:28:30] <armin> anyone a clue why i'm unable to set the mouse pointer speed on X11 here? i tried xinput, lxinput, xset, and the kde settings dialogue, to no avail. i have an external mouse connected to my laptop via a docking station.
2247[17:28:33] <tga> but all settings stay the same, you don't have to reconfigure the vm
2248[17:28:36] <tga> in and out
2249[17:29:00] <greycat> teraflops: yes, you're right, neither he nor I used US-ASCII which is the only portable, proper charset recognizable across IRC.
2250[17:29:07] <greycat> I don't even know what he used.
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2252[17:29:16] * teraflops smells windows
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2254[17:30:48] <jelly> tga: I always have to reconfigure it, don't have same VLANs, don't have same CPU features...
2255[17:31:39] <tga> jelly: I was thinking more about multiple disk images
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2257[17:32:08] <tga> in my case, vms are standalone and just need a network connection, I don't do much virtual networking
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2259[17:32:36] <tga> proxmox looks nice
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2261[17:32:53] <tga> any insight into proxmox vs xenserver?
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2263[17:33:03] <tga> other than kvm vs xen heh
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2266[17:33:37] <teraflops> tga: proxmox uses qemu/kvm, it has lxc support too but is costs money
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2268[17:33:42] <teraflops> it^
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2270[17:34:08] <tga> teraflops: that's the only easy difference I know, I meant when you would use one vs the other
2271[17:34:25] <tga> I'm educating myself a bit on virtualization
2272[17:34:56] <johnkeates> as long as you're used to toy interface of vmware you won't actually learn anything i'm afraid
2273[17:35:05] <jelly> greycat: isn't quite utf-8 either or my client is wonky
2274[17:35:12] <johnkeates> same for windows wizard shiz
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2277[17:35:26] <greycat> My client translates incoming UTF-8 to Latin-1 if the character exists in Latin-1.
2278[17:35:31] <teraflops> tga: because _for me_ is quite powerful, you can run several nodes, external storage and can move VMs across nodes live
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2281[17:35:42] <jelly> greycat: probably already latin1
2282[17:35:42] <greycat> Since u-with-acute-accent is in both charsets, I don't know which one he used.
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2284[17:35:56] <tga> teraflops: that's all in the free/oss version?
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2286[17:36:08] <tga> including moving live vms?
2287[17:36:11] <teraflops> greycat: either they were running windows or just their locales are messed badly
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2290[17:36:19] <teraflops> tga: yep
2291[17:36:21] <tga> nice
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2293[17:36:46] <greycat> Well, I hope that he finds the right channel to get whatever help he needed.
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2295[17:37:19] <teraflops> tga: all is free except lxc support
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2297[17:38:30] <teraflops> windows uses iso8859whatever iirc
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2299[17:39:22] <greycat> Windows in the US uses WIN1252 which is similar to Latin-1 but has some extra chars. But they mis-labeled it as Latin-1, and so now the web decided to bend over and treat Latin-1 == WIN1252.
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2306[17:40:48] <greycat> The big difference is those fucking curly quotes.
2307[17:41:15] <teraflops> greycat: I dont know why they dont use utf8 by default
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2310[17:41:44] * BluesKaj senses bitterness in the room
2311[17:41:49] <greycat> If they did, they would break it on purpose, in order to taint the rest of the world and bend it to their corporate profit.
2312[17:41:58] <teraflops> hehe
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2326[17:47:48] <teraflops> oh I missed that one, alg?n is algún
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2334[17:51:07] <rcenteio> Hi, after installing the open source ati graphic drivers, upon reboot, there is no image output. I can't even go to TTY 1. Specs: Debian 8 Jessie, Intel i5 desktop. Right now, I don't know the model of the graphics card. Any help wuold be appreciated
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2336[17:51:56] <hanasaki> any packages for replaced-url
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2338[17:52:17] <teraflops> rcenteio: we need to know the exact model…
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2342[17:52:45] <greycat> "I don't know what graphics card I have, but installed a driver at random"
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2345[17:53:39] <rcenteio> teraflops, the model is ATI Radeon 5700 or 5750, I'm not sure.
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2349[17:54:30] <teraflops> rcenteio: if you have another machine and ssh is enabled on the failing machine you should be able to provide all the info
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2352[17:54:35] <greycat> Well obviously the first step is to get the computer to boot again, which probably means editing the grub boot command line and adding an argument to tell systemd to use multi-user.target instead of graphical.target
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2355[17:55:27] <greycat> Second step is probably undoing whatever you did with these "open source drivers", which may be somewhere between difficult and impossible.
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2361[17:58:37] <rcenteio> teraflops, I don't think I have ssh connection right now.
2362[17:58:58] <teraflops> you can try what greycat suggested too
2363[17:59:24] <greycat> Add systemd.unit=multi-user.target to the boot options in grub.
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2371[18:03:53] <jrichards> !seen zdenek
2372[18:03:54] <dpkg> jrichards: i haven't seen 'zdenek'
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2382[18:10:00] <TheDrode> Hello! Someone has seen this error before
2383[18:10:01] <TheDrode> build/core/config_sanitizers.mk:49: *** frameworks/base/cmds/app_process: app_process__asan: Use of sanitizers requires LOCAL_CLANG := true. Stop.
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2385[18:10:33] <greycat> That sounds extremely specific to whatever software you're trying to build.
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2388[18:11:21] <TheDrode> greycat: yeah, i am building Android and when seems like everything was about to work, surprise clang
2389[18:11:36] <greycat> There is an #android channel.
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2399[18:18:23] <KingsQuest> whats waiting for debian multimedia repos for stretch ?
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2411[18:23:40] <tga> thanks, proxmox looks nice
2412[18:23:48] <tga> pretty much what I wanted from a ui
2413[18:23:57] <nkuttler> KingsQuest: ask them, it's not supported here
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2424[18:25:11] <LessIsMore> Hello on Debian Jessie all jounald captures all logs and then sends them to rsyslog ?
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2441[18:34:38] <krnz> a
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2443[18:35:08] <KingsQuest> debian that one is mine. thanks for the credit. IT BELON GS TO ME rgr
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2445[18:36:09] <christor> b
2446[18:36:27] <KingsQuest> mandriva i convert the key is apply that number in a reg exp that only vatican knows. its not fibonaacci
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2460[18:42:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1712
2461[18:42:29] <KingsQuest> 805402///430
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2530[19:13:42] <Epx998> I added an in-target to a late command in my preseed, adding a like to /etc/rsyslog.d/50-default.conf - however the installer said the file was not there, but after the restart it is.. do I need to make the change to a different location pre install reboot?
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2543[19:18:21] * jelly didn't know debian installer had "like"s
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2545[19:18:46] <jelly> Epx998: adding a _line_ ?
2546[19:18:53] <BluesKaj> it has defaults
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2554[19:23:55] <Port22> can some point a link for debian without systemd?
2555[19:24:05] <jelly> !jessie sysvinit
2556[19:24:06] <dpkg> To use an init system other than systemd in jessie, install the systemd-shim package (for logind) and remove the systemd-sysv package: aptitude install systemd-shim sysvinit-core systemd-sysv-. To stick with sysvinit for wheezy->jessie upgrades, follow the pinning advice in the release notes: replaced-url
2557[19:24:17] <Port22> thank you
2558[19:24:56] <jelly> there's also a way to make the installer avoid installing it at install time
2559[19:25:10] <jelly> Port22: do you have debian 7 at the moment or what?
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2561[19:26:25] <Port22> ok. thanks for pointing that out.
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2564[19:26:48] <Epx998> jelly: Well the 50-default.conf does not exist until after reboot I guess, so I was wondering if it was in a temporary location?
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2567[19:27:40] <jelly> Epx998: perhaps the late command isn't late enough
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2569[19:28:21] <jelly> I know almost nothing about preseed, not sure what's the right way to run something after packages are fully installed
2570[19:28:31] <Epx998> ah. kk.
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2572[19:29:29] <Epx998> per the docs, late command - but again that file doesnt seem to exist at that time, but does after the restart. Maybe in /target/etc/rsyslog.d - ill give that a try
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2574[19:31:06] <jelly> but you _were_ running in-target
2575[19:31:14] <greycat> !stretch sysvinit is <reply>To replace systemd with sysvinit in stretch, simply "apt-get install sysvinit-core" and reboot. To switch from systemd to runit, "apt-get install runit-systemd", reboot, "apt-get install runit-init", and reboot again.
2576[19:31:14] <dpkg> greycat: okay
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2578[19:31:44] <jelly> runit does sysvinit compat now?
2579[19:31:46] <greycat> !stretch runit is <reply>see stretch sysvinit
2580[19:31:47] <dpkg> greycat: okay
2581[19:32:02] <greycat> I haven't tested. I'm citing from replaced-url
2582[19:32:48] <cybrNaut> preseed for me was a disaster.. it needs to evolve more, not ready for prime-time
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2586[19:33:14] <jelly> as a daemontools afficionado, that looks interesting
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2590[19:33:48] <Epx998> it works fine for me, for what I am doing, minus this slight hiccup
2591[19:34:06] <greycat> At this point I'm content with systemd as long as the defaults remain "all the optional builtin daemons are off".
2592[19:34:08] <jelly> otoh el7 has systemd, debian 8 and 9 do, might as well keep things similar
2593[19:34:29] <jelly> even the current ubuntu lts has it
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2595[19:34:31] <cybrNaut> preseed could not handle a paritioning layout iirc
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2597[19:34:41] <cybrNaut> it's been a couple years though since I tried it
2598[19:34:45] <jelly> and I don't have more obscure distros to care for
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2600[19:35:15] <cybrNaut> other things required serious hacking to work in preseed, and in the end preseed ended up in an install loop
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2603[19:36:08] <jelly> partman component could sure use some love
2604[19:36:22] <cybrNaut> maybe i'll give preseed another try in ~5 years to see if it works better
2605[19:36:37] <jelly> maybe you'll be rich and not have to worry about computers
2606[19:36:49] <cybrNaut> that'd be even better
2607[19:37:03] <cybrNaut> pay a human to be my preseed tool
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2609[19:37:16] <jelly> that's what junior admins are for
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2613[19:37:47] <jhutchins_wk> You could try kickstart.
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2624[19:40:17] <Epx998> yeah instaler/syslog.conf doent even show anything, I see the echos into the file but.. nothing else and clearly the command didnt work. sigh
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2628[19:41:08] <jelly> jhutchins_wk: FAI is probably more debian oriented
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2671[20:01:56] <Epx998> ok so, getting rid if in-target to echo "blah" >> /etc/rsyslog.conf, i just run the echo into /target/etc/rsyslog.conf and it seems to work
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2675[20:03:17] <s4p2> Hello, I've installed linux-headers but virtualbox doesn't want to build, why? I've got linux-image and linux-headers from backports but virtualbox is from stable
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2677[20:03:45] <Epx998> s4p2: whats the error?
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2683[20:07:24] <s4p2> Epx998: there is no error I couldn't load virtualbox module up by systemd, why doesn't it build automatically with dkms?
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2715[20:15:10] <yolan> Hello. :)
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2764[20:35:09] <ananteris> whats the correct way (or an example package) to have debian generate .pyc files during the install?
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2768[20:36:53] <nkuttler> ananteris: um.. i don't think pyc files should be included
2769[20:37:06] <greycat> definitely not included inside the package
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2772[20:37:15] <greycat> that's not what he asked
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2774[20:37:18] <ananteris> exactly... whats the correct way to have them generated at install time
2775[20:37:41] <nkuttler> why would you want to do that?
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2777[20:37:46] <greycat> I would look at an existing python package and see how that one does it.
2778[20:37:47] <ananteris> because seven
2779[20:37:49] <jhutchins_wk> ananteris: Is it currently a two step process? Install, then generate?
2780[20:38:05] <ananteris> okay, so theres no way to hook a post install part of .deb install to generate pyc files?
2781[20:38:28] <greycat> Putting python commands in postinst would definitely *do* it, but I would see if that's how other packages currently do it.
2782[20:38:33] <greycat> I'm not a python guy.
2783[20:38:50] <jhutchins_wk> ananteris: Don't then generate when you run the python code?
2784[20:38:50] <ananteris> know of any good candidate packages for me to look at?
2785[20:38:53] <nkuttler> looks like it's done though..
2786[20:39:10] <greycat> jhutchins_wk: not if you run it as "jhutchins" instead of root, and the .py files are in root-owned directories.
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2789[20:39:22] <jhutchins_wk> Hmn.
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2791[20:39:44] <nkuttler> ananteris: replaced-url
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2794[20:40:08] <davedoom_> Hi guys. I have two machines here. Both are setup to do unattended upgrades. One is working ok ( I think) the other seems to miss upgrades. For instance a recent upgrade on VM1 moved from :
2795[20:40:10] <davedoom_> login 1:4.2-3+deb8u3
2796[20:40:11] <davedoom_> to
2797[20:40:13] <davedoom_> login 1:4.2-3+deb8u4
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2799[20:40:14] <davedoom_> this is not reflected on my raspberry pi.
2800[20:40:28] *** Joins: jleon (c697350a@replaced-ip)
2801[20:40:32] <greycat> /var/lib/dpkg/info/python-apt.postinst has something but I don't understand it. Maybe you as a python person would understand it.
2802[20:40:38] <ananteris> okay, thanks!
2803[20:40:44] <jhutchins_wk> davedoom_: Real Debian on the Pi?
2804[20:40:46] <jelly> davedoom_: does your raspberry pi run actual Debian?
2805[20:41:00] <davedoom_> raspbian
2806[20:41:03] <jelly> !raspbian
2807[20:41:04] <dpkg> Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian on irc.freenode.net for support. replaced-url
2808[20:41:11] <jhutchins_wk> davedoom_: There ya go.
2809[20:41:26] <jelly> (and its packaging is not 1:1 with debian)
2810[20:41:31] <davedoom_> hummm... I have debian security in sources.
2811[20:41:38] <davedoom_> I will look into it.
2812[20:41:41] <jelly> debian.org security?
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2815[20:42:08] <jelly> it's unwise to mix repos for different distros
2816[20:42:21] <jhutchins_wk> davedoom_: Raspbian might not even have u4 yet.
2817[20:42:26] <jelly> ^^
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2820[20:42:46] <jelly> davedoom_: "apt-cache policy package" is instructive
2821[20:42:55] <davedoom_> let me look into it and get back to you.
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2824[20:45:57] <xY2GZDp9Kt3> Debian pure is wonky on Raspberry Pi because systemd breaks a lot of ARM tools and non-x86 tools. So much for being "universal". BTW, Devuan is 1.0 today. Runs great on ARM kits.
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2828[20:46:41] <teraflops> pfff
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2832[20:47:31] <jelly> xY2GZDp9Kt3: they seem to have invested in infrastructure quite a bit, hopefully their jessie+1 will be out faster than 2 years after debian
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2834[20:48:42] <jelly> xY2GZDp9Kt3: "universal" does not mean "bugless"
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2837[20:49:38] <jelly> else I'd go on a rant about i386 becoming second hand citizen
2838[20:49:53] <jelly> second rate*
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2840[20:51:01] <jhutchins_wk> Then there are projects like chrome that have abandoned it.
2841[20:51:49] <n4dir> not that "second hand citizen" wouldn't sound funny.
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2843[20:52:05] <greycat> "second class" was what you were aiming for, jelly
2844[20:53:20] <jelly> thanks
2845[20:53:24] <davedoom_> What is this systemd stuff and why am I supposed to hate on it? Is this like emacs vs. vi?
2846[20:53:32] <greycat> Yes, much like that.
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2848[20:53:37] <teraflops> davedoom_: please drop it…
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2854[20:55:10] <jelly> it's not a base, to drop
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2863[20:59:43] <xY2GZDp9Kt3> I'll do this really quick and fair: systemd is a replace init, the part of the OS that starts services during boot. A lot of people like systemd because it was the faster for a time and integrated things well when there was a lot of chaos on the Linux desktop. Some people don't like it because it's monolithic, does a lot more than a traditional init should, was very buggy, and personal feelings ag
2864[20:59:43] <xY2GZDp9Kt3> ainst the lead developer. Most mainstream distros adopted systemd but a few didn't. Devuan is a fork of Debian that leaves out systemd.
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2866[21:00:46] <greycat> That may be dangerously oversimplified in many ways.
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2872[21:02:36] <helpImStuck> Which is safer by default, systemd or init.d?
2873[21:02:51] <jelly> helpImStuck: the default is safer, if you don't know better
2874[21:03:01] <n4dir> if you don't know what systemd is, then you probably ain't got not reasons not to use it, davedoom_
2875[21:03:02] <jelly> at present time, Debian defaults to systemd
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2879[21:03:46] <n4dir> ... and if you don't want to use it, then there are better choices (imho, of course).
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2881[21:03:57] <greycat> systemd is probably "safer" going forward because more people are going to be using it. Fewer people running alternative means less scrutiny, bugs slipping through unnoticed, etc.
2882[21:04:01] <helpImStuck> like openrc
2883[21:04:11] *** Quits: jfsCommit (kdevtmpfs@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2884[21:05:07] <helpImStuck> or something..
2885[21:05:34] *** Joins: Ticho (~Ticho@replaced-ip)
2886[21:06:01] <jelly> xY2GZDp9Kt3: keep this channel for tech support tho. Mention of Devuan having an actual release is nice. Woohoo! They've taken care and time to do what they do right, and they have a derivative out!
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2890[21:07:49] <jelly> but I'd rather not have to suffer yet another discussion of systemd benefits and malefits, do it in #debian-offtopic, or anywhere else but here
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2894[21:08:24] <n4dir> gentoo forums seems like a good place to start :-)
2895[21:08:33] <jelly> !slap n4dir
2896[21:08:33] * dpkg strikes a resounding *THWAP* across n4dir's face
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2899[21:09:35] <jelly> (also, if anyone else is going to join some new channels, consider the fact #devuan is mostly for devs and #debianfork is their more casual channel)
2900[21:10:27] <n4dir> just in case I was not kidding.
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2907[21:11:13] <davedoom_> I have an on topic question. I want to buy a lenovo p2 ( it's a mobile phone ). It would be super cool if I could dual boot with debian. Has anybody tried it?
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2911[21:12:36] <jelly> davedoom_: forget about running linux seriously on any phone hw
2912[21:12:43] <jhutchins_wk> davedoom_: Last I heard the ubuntu phone project had faltered badly. I have not heard of a usable distro that runs on a phone.
2913[21:13:01] <jhutchins_wk> davedoom_: Touch-based interface development is still pretty primative.
2914[21:13:01] <helpImStuck> davedoom_, not with that phone, but i know you can install gnu/linux on other phones.. check out xda's forum, they might know more about what you can put on just that phone
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2917[21:13:47] <davedoom_> I saw the list of phone on ubuntu site. They are uniformly old and low spec. What exactly is the issue?
2918[21:13:48] <n4dir> davedoom_: you sure can debootstrap debian. i recall an entry at wiki.debian.org, but can't find it. I used a different how-to, and it was cool.
2919[21:13:54] <jhutchins_wk> davedoom_: Note that there is a significant difference between installing linux and using it.
2920[21:13:58] *** Quits: brokency3le (~brokencyc@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
2921[21:14:15] <jelly> davedoom_: lack of open source drivers
2922[21:14:48] <davedoom_> have you seen the Gemini PDA? It is a project to make a new-ish phone with ubuntu or arch or ... something on it.
2923[21:14:57] <jelly> you'll never have them, they're not lucrative enough in the short term, and life span of these devices _is_ short term
2924[21:15:00] <n4dir> replaced-url
2925[21:15:13] <davedoom_> I'm super excited about it.
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2927[21:16:11] <helpImStuck> Is it a good idea to install debian on a usb-stick and configure it as pleased then only mount it as ro on boot? If it get compromised the save is just a boot away.
2928[21:16:16] *** Joins: Classsic_ (b5e62f10@replaced-ip)
2929[21:16:49] <davedoom_> I just read this: "With Debian installed on my Android phone, I can run R scripts and Perl scripts directly on my phone. And, if I'm teaching class, I can project X11 applications like wxMaxima, qtOctave and Gretl from my phone onto the screen behind me." You know all that stuff works fine in Android.
2930[21:16:56] <Classsic_> Hi everybody /Hola a todos, por si alguien habla español ;-)
2931[21:17:05] <jelly> davedoom_: that's the "toy chroot" stuff
2932[21:17:16] <teraflops> davedoom_: that's not dual boot debian, that's a chroot thingy
2933[21:17:23] *** Quits: tga (~tga@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2934[21:17:25] <davedoom_> No these are actual play store apps
2935[21:17:25] <jelly> !es
2936[21:17:26] <dpkg> Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat.
2937[21:17:44] <BluesKaj> Classsic_,^
2938[21:17:46] <jelly> davedoom_: those actual apps create images and debootstrap a chroot.
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2940[21:18:17] <davedoom_> I tried the R package ( since removed from the store) it was a java app ( no debian chroot)
2941[21:18:29] <Classsic_> hi, I try install debian on BayTrail tablet, with z3735 cpu.
2942[21:18:38] <jelly> davedoom_: oh, then it was an android app
2943[21:18:46] <Classsic_> well, I already have installed :-)
2944[21:18:47] <jelly> not related to debian
2945[21:18:53] <davedoom_> yes. That is what I am saying.
2946[21:18:54] <greycat> helpImStuck: I'm not sure what is actually involved in doing that. Bind mounts? I'm also not sure how you enforce "no writing to the underlying device".
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2949[21:19:09] <greycat> e.g. opening /dev/sda1
2950[21:19:33] <jelly> davedoom_: but you also quoted "With Debian installed on my Android phone, I can run R scripts [...]"
2951[21:19:39] <davedoom_> this guy: replaced-url
2952[21:19:40] <davedoom_> is specifically talking about NEW things that he can do with debian.
2953[21:20:08] <n4dir> that how-to is pretty old. Either back then you couldn't run R scripts, or he simply didn't know
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2956[21:20:18] <davedoom_> could be.
2957[21:20:23] <n4dir> but it is only an example anyway.
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2960[21:20:51] <n4dir> btw: it *is* old. I wouldn't know if it still works. But he usually updates his stuff, so i guess it still works
2961[21:21:05] <davedoom_> 2016
2962[21:21:11] <jelly> davedoom_: that article seems to explain an idea or three, more than an implementation
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2964[21:21:39] <Classsic_> somebody know if is possible compile lastest kernel (i need 4.12), and run with debian?
2965[21:21:46] <Classsic_> *latest
2966[21:21:48] <jelly> Classsic_: yes.
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2968[21:22:14] <jelly> it's possible to build your own kernel and boot your distro userspace on any sane distro
2969[21:22:27] <jelly> !tias
2970[21:22:27] <dpkg> TIAS is "Try It And See".
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2973[21:22:55] <jelly> if that stops being possible, you can argue that's not a linux distro any more
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2975[21:23:11] <jelly> (or that kernel is not a linux kernel)
2976[21:23:36] <mtcjayne> if I modify an interface's properties with "ip" do I have to take down and bring up the interface for the modification(s) to take effect?
2977[21:23:51] <Classsic_> ok, I want complete system on my tablet with baytrail.
2978[21:23:55] <greycat> mtcjayne: no.
2979[21:24:06] <xY2GZDp9Kt3> You can't build Debian kFreeBSD or Debian GNU/Hurd any more because of systemd
2980[21:24:09] <greycat> change done by ip are immediate and non-persistent
2981[21:24:09] <Classsic_> but only find "ubuntu" versions 100% compatible
2982[21:24:21] <jelly> Classsic_: look luck, those things are rather closed up
2983[21:24:25] <jelly> good* luck
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2987[21:24:40] <greycat> if you want your changes to survive an ifdown/ifup cycle, they have to be made in /etc/network/interfaces or N-M
2988[21:25:04] <Classsic_> I installed multiarch iso, and boot fine, have wireless (I have to compile the driver)
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2991[21:25:21] <Classsic_> but I'm lose with xorg and touch screen
2992[21:25:26] <greycat> You probably just want to use the netinst-with-nonfree-firmware image instead.
2993[21:25:32] <mtcjayne> ok. I have to occasionally change the local-ip of a tun interface (IPv6 tunnel broker) to match my dynamic IPv4
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2997[21:25:41] <greycat> dpkg firmware images
2998[21:25:42] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> images - containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages - for installing Debian 8 "Jessie" are available from replaced-url
2999[21:25:45] <Classsic_> yeap, that's iso I did use.
3000[21:25:52] <jelly> xY2GZDp9Kt3: that's not a tech support question
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3002[21:26:51] <Classsic_> ok, I use this tablets likes NVR servers, and works greats
3003[21:27:03] <jelly> mtcjayne: if you modified them, they're modified.
3004[21:27:27] <mtcjayne> cool. that increase simplicity of doing the updates
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3006[21:27:48] <jelly> (until reboot, or the device disappears of course)
3007[21:28:04] <Classsic_> but have to use wpa_supplicant cmd line for wireless, and is not so practical
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3011[21:28:38] <mtcjayne> sure. I'll have the check to reconfigure on a cron job for machine start as well as 5 minutes or whatnot.
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3013[21:30:55] <mtcjayne> I appreciate both your help
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3017[21:32:24] <xY2GZDp9Kt3> jelly: Debian users should know when talking about compiling kernels they can't compile all available Debian kernels any more, seems important to know
3018[21:33:11] <greycat> xY2GZDp9Kt3: you are coming across as an evangelist for a non-Debian distribution, rather than helping anyone
3019[21:33:16] <MickyW> xY2GZDp9Kt3: Could you please give a link to some more detail? That interests me.
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3022[21:34:23] <n4dir> probably nonsense. not sure why one would want to compile the Hurd or kFreeBSD kernel though.
3023[21:34:48] <MickyW> greycat: So, it sounds like there is a controversy about that?
3024[21:34:56] <jelly> xY2GZDp9Kt3: Debian users who actually CARE can join the respective subproject channels. Drop it.
3025[21:34:58] <Classsic_> ok, somebody can pointme for try to config touchscreen?
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3027[21:35:54] <MickyW> MickyW: Please give me just a push into the right direction. I do not expect an elaborated explanation here and yet.
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3029[21:36:54] <greycat> P.S. you might tell #devuan to put their release in their /topic
3030[21:37:16] <jelly> it's very very fresh, like half an hour ago
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3033[21:40:54] <teraflops> xY2GZDp9Kt3: stop spamming ads about other distros please, that's gross
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3043[21:44:04] <mtcjayne> "can anyone help me fix my Linux mint system"
3044[21:44:11] *** Joins: oberling (~oberling@replaced-ip)
3045[21:44:14] <greycat> !mint
3046[21:44:15] <dpkg> Linux Mint is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Please use their forums at replaced-url
3047[21:44:20] <mtcjayne> ;)
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3050[21:45:19] <mtcjayne> what software runs dpkg?
3051[21:46:26] <greycat> !what are you
3052[21:46:26] <dpkg> I am an infobot. For more information, ask me about <infobot>.
3053[21:47:09] <mtcjayne> Thanks
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3057[21:50:17] <Classsic_> somebody know ncurses interface for config wireless?
3058[21:51:17] <missmbob> nmtui
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3061[21:52:59] <Classsic_> but this need network-manager?
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3064[21:53:49] <missmbob> yes. it's what you asked for. or you can do it manually configuring text files
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3066[21:54:18] <greycat> the ncurses interface for non-NM network config is usually vim or nano
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3069[21:54:26] <Classsic_> yes, right know I'm doing manual config.
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3071[21:55:36] <n4dir> there is ceni, or has been, but i don't think it is in the repos.
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3091[22:03:37] <jhutchins_wk> Classsic_: There is wicd, but for most users NM has worked better for several releases.
3092[22:03:48] <jhutchins_wk> Classsic_: Just don't use more than one method at the same time <grin>.
3093[22:03:49] <Tsutsukakushi> Classsic_: i really like wicd-curses
3094[22:03:56] *** puzzling1 is now known as puzzlingWeirdo
3095[22:04:44] <Classsic_> wicd-curses, let's try with this option :-)
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3097[22:05:18] <Tsutsukakushi> first steps of my debian install usually go like this...
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3099[22:05:34] <Tsutsukakushi> install wicd, remove network manager, install sysvinit, remove systemd
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3102[22:06:28] <teraflops> Tsutsukakushi: you meant install devuan? because this is getting annoying
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3105[22:07:06] <n4dir> no need to remove systemd if you install devuan.
3106[22:07:19] <mtcjayne> bruh
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3108[22:07:35] <teraflops> i don't care about devuan
3109[22:07:39] <Classsic_> I install net-install iso
3110[22:07:43] <greycat> Removing systemd and using sysvinit *is* a supported Debian configuration. It's valid.
3111[22:08:06] <n4dir> just looking for the bot-info, but like usual can't find them
3112[22:08:12] <MickyW> Any hint, where I can get inbiased infos about that issue? Which particular kernes are not anymore compilable as xY2GZDp9Kt3 claims?
3113[22:08:13] <greycat> !jessie sysvinit
3114[22:08:13] <dpkg> To use an init system other than systemd in jessie, install the systemd-shim package (for logind) and remove the systemd-sysv package: aptitude install systemd-shim sysvinit-core systemd-sysv-. To stick with sysvinit for wheezy->jessie upgrades, follow the pinning advice in the release notes: replaced-url
3115[22:08:20] <Classsic_> have'nt network-manager stuff, really have nothing,like have to be
3116[22:08:20] <n4dir> ta-da
3117[22:09:58] <Classsic_> why you suggest remove systemd?
3118[22:09:59] <n4dir> MickyW: no, i think you won't get unbiased opionins about the subject. It seem like a highly emotional question. the Hurd kernel never has been an official debian release, the kFreeBSD kernel was for short, but not anymore.
3119[22:10:55] <n4dir> MickyW: both are rather exotic sub-projects of debian. I consider them interesting, but if you don't use them, not much to worry about
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3122[22:11:13] <Turpitude> Hello Everyone! I'm having trouble mounting a windows SMB share via the /etc/fstab. Where would I find the log files to determine what went wrong?
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3127[22:13:38] <mtcjayne> apt-get foo- will remove package foom
3128[22:13:39] <mtcjayne> ?
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3132[22:14:08] <centrx> mtcjayne: I would do dpkg --purge foo
3133[22:14:19] <MickyW> n4dir: To be honest, I am not a notorious kernel compiler ... Did it occasionally during the years, but at most about 4 times or so. - But one of the main benefits was, in my opinion, the opportunitiy, resp. the possibibility to do it. - Such claims are irritating me. Especially as testing such claims is moslty very time consuming.
3134[22:15:49] *** Quits: mtcjayne (~mtcjayne@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bye)
3135[22:15:56] <MickyW> testing -> verifying (and please overlook some bibibilities)
3136[22:16:06] <n4dir> Nah, nah, MickyW. See, there is the Linux kernel. All good, so far. There is the Hurd and the kFreeBSD kernel. You can use both (experimental sub-projects of debian). Wether his claim that you can't compile them anymore: doesn't make sense to me.
3137[22:16:25] <n4dir> but you sure can use the binary versions anyway (of the Hurd and kFreeBSD).
3138[22:16:27] <n4dir> makes sense?
3139[22:16:58] <MickyW> n4dir: Yes. Thank you for the answer. (calmed down a bit).
3140[22:17:14] <n4dir> that is the most short answer: just calm down :-)
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3146[22:22:40] <CuSn> hi, need a hint. I'm an old SysV guy and i need to permanently disable samba on my debian system, but i don'tknow systemd. What command should I look up ?
3147[22:23:38] *** Quits: Hans-Martin (~ignore@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3148[22:24:05] <missmbob> systemctl disable servicename
3149[22:24:30] <CuSn> ah, so simple. Danke!
3150[22:24:41] *** Joins: Riastradh (~riastradh@replaced-ip)
3151[22:24:58] <CuSn> I was fearing it more than it needed. :-)
3152[22:25:08] <Riastradh> Is there any way to associate an apt keyring with a particular apt source list, so that package lists from that source must be signed by that keyring and not any other?
3153[22:25:29] <missmbob> CuSn: systemd isnt as evil as some make it out to be
3154[22:25:50] *** xY2GZDp9Kt3 is now known as jimpa
3155[22:26:05] <CuSn> If it's not text based, it's from Satan! (or Microsoft! ) ... ;-)
3156[22:26:18] *** Joins: sijis (~sijis@replaced-ip)
3157[22:26:57] <petn-randall> CuSn: The unit files are text-based, just like init scripts are. ;-)
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3159[22:27:41] <CuSn> petn-randall: Blaspheemer! there are parts that aren't textual! Abomination!
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3162[22:28:39] <CuSn> (Sorry, been watching the anti-gay rants from the fundies and Cathodox on reddit too much lately,... ;-) )
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3174[22:34:39] <jelly> CuSn: actually it's systemctl mask servicenamehere, the disable one stops it from starting on its own, but some other service might start is as a dependency
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3177[22:35:22] <CuSn> jelly: thanks. I'll look out for that.
3178[22:35:59] *** Quits: jackNemrod (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3179[22:36:12] <nktn> hi, why uninstalling something requires new packages? replaced-url
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3182[22:37:06] <MickyW> CuSn: Have a look at RationalWiki. :-)
3183[22:37:39] *** Quits: Walakea1 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: Walakea1)
3184[22:38:03] <greycat> nktn: dependencies
3185[22:38:21] <CuSn> MickyW: Have done. :-)
3186[22:38:21] *** Joins: nog3_ (~tud3@replaced-ip)
3187[22:38:27] <greycat> A depends on B, B is provided by C, you remove C, now you need something else to provide B...
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3189[22:38:38] *** Quits: juantelez (~juantelez@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3190[22:38:44] <MickyW> CuSn: Fine!
3191[22:38:50] <CuSn> :-D
3192[22:38:52] <sijis> I have two versions of a custom package 'app-configs' with '1.0.5~aaa' and '1.0.6~bbb'. in another custom package, i have the following in the control file in 'my-app' package as: Depends: app-configs (= 1.0.5~aaa). everything is copied to Artifactory (in our case, which hosts a debian repo). When i do 'apt-get install 'my-app', i'm seeing a "my-app : Depends: app-configs (= 1.0-5~aaa) but 1.0-6~bbbb is to be
3193[22:38:54] <sijis> installed.". What am i doing wrong?
3194[22:39:30] <sijis> if i do remove the 1.0.6 file in artifactory, it works. it does seem like the (=1.0.5~aaa) is wrong or something
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3200[22:41:09] <MickyW> OK. Thank you for "nursing" me. Have a nice time. Going to bed.
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3202[22:41:46] *** Quits: MickyW (~MickyW@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving. Have a nice day.)
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3210[22:45:05] <nktn> greycat, thanks, any way to remove ABC so that I don't get any new packages installed?
3211[22:45:11] <nktn> say, purgin C is ok?
3212[22:45:34] <greycat> Unclear what you actually want.
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3218[22:46:17] <nktn> I want to remove monodevelop, but I get new packages installed (say B)... If I delete these new packages, I get some others installed
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3221[22:46:33] <greycat> Why is this a problem?
3222[22:47:04] <nktn> comes from ftp, not ftps
3223[22:47:14] <greycat> ...
3224[22:47:16] <greycat> what. what the fuck.
3225[22:47:37] <greycat> So many... my head... what
3226[22:47:48] <nktn> sorry, I don't get the sarcasm
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3228[22:48:25] <greycat> Are you seriously complaining about something being installed because you don't like the PROTOCOL that you SELECTED in your sources.list file, and then disguising it as a question about dependencies?
3229[22:48:28] *** Joins: GeMiNniS (~geminnis@replaced-ip)
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3232[22:48:50] <greycat> ... do you actually believe that there is a protocol named "ftps" that anyone would actually use?
3233[22:49:25] *** Joins: miczac (~miczac@replaced-ip)
3234[22:49:25] <greycat> ... did you actually, SERIOUSLY, use an ftp source? In 2017?
3235[22:49:26] *** Quits: hlmjr (~herbmille@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
3236[22:49:33] <centrx> this is why I don't use apt-get remove
3237[22:49:46] *** Joins: chomwitt2 (~chomwitt@replaced-ip)
3238[22:49:50] <nktn> dude
3239[22:50:12] <jelly> eh, aptitude does similar things, but at least it can be coerced to do what you want
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3243[22:50:55] * centrx is sticking with dselect
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3246[22:51:23] <centrx> apt-get remove doesn't show you why those others are being installed
3247[22:51:43] <jelly> nktn: both try to avoid removing packages you previously asked for, so if adding an alternative dependency helps to not remove some other package, they try to do just that
3248[22:51:56] <greycat> But you can probably guess, right?
3249[22:52:00] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1709
3250[22:52:05] <centrx> nktn: If you do dpkg --remove monodevelop it will tell you what depends on it
3251[22:52:08] <centrx> or dpkg --purge
3252[22:52:14] <nktn> centrx, cool, thanks
3253[22:52:30] <greycat> And again, it's NOT CLEAR to me whether he wants to remove whatever package depends indirectly on "monodevelop", or whether he wants to force his system to be in a broken-dependency state.
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3256[22:52:55] <nktn> greycat, ahahah that's a possiblity
3257[22:53:00] *** Joins: Ekchuan (~RandyMars@replaced-ip)
3258[22:53:02] <jelly> it's not, but since no apt* thing can work with a broken-dependency state...
3259[22:53:10] *** Quits: nhhc (~nhhc@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3260[22:53:14] <nktn> but I could reinstall, or lit the lappy on fire
3261[22:53:25] *** Joins: SkyPatrol (~SkyPatrol@replaced-ip)
3262[22:53:38] <greycat> I'm still reeling from this "ftps" thing that he said. I. Just... my heaD!
3263[22:53:57] <jelly> I have no idea what that meant at all
3264[22:54:15] <nktn> yeah
3265[22:54:16] <jelly> <nktn> comes from ftp, not ftps
3266[22:54:20] <nktn> i don't have experience
3267[22:54:31] <nktn> I thought packages comes from secure source?
3268[22:54:40] <greycat> BUT YOU INSTALLED MONODEVELOP FROM THESE SOURCES
3269[22:54:53] <greycat> And whatever the hell else you wanted to.
3270[22:55:02] <nktn> yeah I forgot about sources.list
3271[22:55:03] <jelly> what sources?
3272[22:55:03] <oty> there is no need, package are signed and checked on that after being downloaded
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3275[22:55:25] <AtheroS__> hello, i try to use a dhcp client in initramfs, and i dont know where to put the line that starts it
3276[22:55:34] <jelly> nktn: is this a continuation of some previous question?
3277[22:55:37] <AtheroS__> i tried /init
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3283[22:56:12] <AtheroS__> but it doesn't start the dhcp client
3284[22:56:44] <AtheroS__> i followed the gentoo wiki to do that
3285[22:56:47] <nktn> oty, I see
3286[22:57:05] *** Quits: jleon (c697350a@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ##replaced-url
3287[22:57:14] <greycat> !jessie sources.list
3288[22:57:15] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for Debian 8 "Jessie" has three lines: "deb replaced-url
3289[22:57:55] *** Quits: chomwitt2 (~chomwitt@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3290[22:58:18] <petn-randall> AtheroS__: You can't just drop the binary in there, since it's compiled against many other libraries. Why do you want to add dhclient to initramfs in the first place?
3291[22:58:54] *** Joins: dreamon_ (~dreamon@replaced-ip)
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3305[23:06:19] <prussian> ip= whatever kernel commandline would let you config an interface with dhcp
3306[23:06:26] <prussian> AtheroS__: ^
3307[23:06:35] <prussian> i don't remember the exact syntax
3308[23:06:39] <prussian> I'd have to look
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3322[23:14:36] <jim> hi, is kotlin packaged for debian? (already tried apt-cache search kotlin)
3323[23:15:17] *** Parts: matlock (~matlock@replaced-ip)
3324[23:15:33] <centrx> jim: doesn't look like it: packages.debian.org/kotlin
3325[23:15:47] <centrx> jim: doesn't look like it: replaced-url
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3329[23:16:45] <jim> centrx, thanks, and both links worked
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3333[23:18:29] *** Quits: srg___ (~srg@replaced-ip) (Quit: srg___)
3334[23:18:48] <jelly> and there's no request to package it with that name, either
3335[23:18:57] <jelly> judd: wnpp kotlin
3336[23:18:58] <judd> Sorry, no wnpp bugs were found.
3337[23:19:59] <jim> thanks jelly
3338[23:20:14] <AtheroS__> petn-randall: i try to unlock a disk encryption from initramfs, first from lan and then from wlan with hostapd in initrams
3339[23:20:24] *** Joins: Psil0Cybin (~psil0cybi@replaced-ip)
3340[23:20:27] <zuiss1> can anyone help me with installing python modules. i read to do it in virtualenv but am confused on what that is
3341[23:21:06] *** Joins: raid28 (~IceChat9@replaced-ip)
3342[23:21:33] <jim> zuiss1, a virtualenv is something you make (there's a program to do it) which gets a python and a place to put modules
3343[23:21:44] *** lethu__ is now known as lethu
3344[23:22:12] <zuiss1> jim: do i use pip to install virtualenv?
3345[23:22:27] <zuiss1> or or there debian packages for these
3346[23:22:28] <jim> I think you can aptget it
3347[23:22:32] *** Parts: omajid (~omajid@replaced-ip)
3348[23:22:35] <greycat> ,info virtualenv
3349[23:22:36] <judd> Package virtualenv (python, optional) in jessie/amd64: Python virtual environment creator. Version: 1.11.6+ds-1; Size: 16.8k; Installed: 53k; Homepage: replaced-url
3350[23:22:42] <AtheroS__> petn-randall: in the gentoo initrams wiki its described how to run udpchc in initrams, but they dont say where to put that line that starts it
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3352[23:23:04] *** Quits: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3353[23:23:05] <zuiss1> ok i found a package called python3-virtualenv
3354[23:23:15] <jim> then once you have the virtual env, you use the pip -in- the virtualenv to install modules
3355[23:23:32] <zuiss1> should i install that, or just "virtualenv"
3356[23:23:41] *** gftg is now known as gftg_away
3357[23:23:43] <jim> you should install that
3358[23:23:49] <zuiss1> ok
3359[23:23:52] <greycat> I *think* virtualenv is for python 2.x and python3-virtualenv is for python 3.x
3360[23:23:59] <jim> then you can use its script to make virtual envs
3361[23:24:18] <jim> greycat, yeah, I think you're 4right
3362[23:24:34] <zuiss1> virtualenv seems to be installing python3-virtualenv
3363[23:24:55] *** Quits: Psil0Cybin (~psil0cybi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3364[23:25:13] <jim> zuiss1, do you want to use python3?
3365[23:25:46] <greycat> the 2.x virtualenv needs the 3.x one because virtualenv is actually *implemented* in python 3.x, or so I remember being told once upon a time
3366[23:26:09] <greycat> Pythons are weird.
3367[23:26:29] *** Joins: SalanderLives (~SalanderL@replaced-ip)
3368[23:26:47] *** Quits: Horachi (~Horachi@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
3369[23:26:50] <jim> they'll hug ya good
3370[23:26:57] *** Quits: czesmir (~stefan@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
3371[23:27:08] *** Joins: Horachi (~Horachi@replaced-ip)
3372[23:27:18] *** Quits: greycat (~wooledg@replaced-ip) (Quit: exit 0)
3373[23:27:22] <jim> or am I thinking of boas
3374[23:27:44] *** Quits: p0g0_ (~pogo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3375[23:28:15] <zuiss1> i am trying to use python 3.x
3376[23:28:26] <jim> ok, good enough
3377[23:28:38] <GJdan> How can I list all active ssh sessions in jessie and kill sessions for a certain user?
3378[23:29:06] *** Quits: SugoiBeans (uid188175@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
3379[23:29:14] <ephemer0l> 'who' ?
3380[23:29:32] <jim> zuiss1, try this... cd $HOME ; virtualenv my-first-venv
3381[23:29:41] <Lynk> GJdan: try "ps -fx | grep ssh"
3382[23:30:58] <zuiss1> jim: thanks
3383[23:31:00] *** Quits: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
3384[23:31:13] <zuiss1> that output : Running virtualenv with interpreter /usr/bin/python2
3385[23:31:26] <zuiss1> but my program is supposed to be python3. does it matter?
3386[23:31:58] *** Quits: bblindy (~bblinder@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
3387[23:32:00] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1699
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3391[23:33:59] <GJdan> Lynk: thanks, that's the one
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3395[23:36:44] <jim> zuiss1, did it make one?
3396[23:36:57] <zuiss1> yes i got it, thanks
3397[23:37:09] <zuiss1> virtualenv -p python3 "my-first-venv"
3398[23:37:34] *** Joins: HerrMumba (~mumba@replaced-ip)
3399[23:37:36] <jim> ok... it added some other stuff too... you should look into my-first-venv/bin/activate
3400[23:37:46] <jim> which you would -source-
3401[23:37:55] <jim> so:
3402[23:38:07] *** Quits: HerrMumba (~mumba@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
3403[23:38:15] <jim> . my-first-venv/bin/activate
3404[23:38:48] *** Joins: roshanavand (~mos@replaced-ip)
3405[23:38:51] <jim> (the . means "source")
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3410[23:41:46] <teraflops> ,v virtualenvwrapper
3411[23:41:47] <judd> Package: virtualenvwrapper on amd64 -- wheezy: 3.4-2; stretch: 4.3.1-2; jessie: 4.3.1-2; sid: 4.3.1-2
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3413[23:42:40] <klow> funny question: I'm setting up a console-only laptop for writing/typing with nano and no internet . I'm wondering if I can set up my console with some margin. I can set SCREEN_WIDTH and SCREEN_HEIGHT env vars and run setupcon, but this moves the console to the top right corner of the laptop. Basically I want nano to be centered in the middle of the
3414[23:42:40] <klow> screen, using about 75% of screen space.. can it be done>
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3420[23:47:16] <zuiss1> jim: thanks
3421[23:47:28] <tga> what's the standard way of installing python3.5 on stable?
3422[23:47:38] <tga> source vs pydev vs backports vs what?
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3429[23:50:31] <Lynk> tga: python3.5 is only available in stretch or highter
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3432[23:52:15] <tga> Lynk: thanks, that's why I'm asking about the way to install it
3433[23:52:26] * tga leans towards pyenv
3434[23:52:27] <jim> zuiss1, what the act of sourcing "activate" does, is it makes the executables in the virtual env available so you can run them without specifying the full path...
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3440[23:54:24] <jim> if you use the pip that gets added to the virtualenv, it can install python modules into that environmand... lastly, when you're done with a particular venv, you can rm -rf it
3441[23:54:59] *** Quits: GeMiNniS (~geminnis@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
3442[23:55:17] <jim> (to know which pip or python you're going to be using, which is particularly useful for that)
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