31[00:24:11] <freem> f8e4: add sources for testing to your
sources list, then update, then `apt-get source i3` then debuild -us
-uc I guess
32[00:24:54] <greycat> There are a few more steps. /msg dpkg
simple sid backport
33[00:24:56] <sponix> !ssb
34[00:24:57] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on
<debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for
sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable
debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install
build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source
packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation
options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid
see <uupdate>.
35[00:27:56] <freem> is there is a way to know dpkg's
hints?
64[00:47:52] <sney> a) irc factoids are limited by the max size
of an irc message. 2) users should know that when they are doing
something system admin related, such as updating the package
manager, they need to do so as root.
77[00:53:48] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on
<debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for
sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable
debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install
build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source
packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation
options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid
see <uupdate>.
91[00:59:45] <sney> f8e4: yes, just install the other i3-wm
package that you built. if you do e.g. 'apt install
./i3-wm*.deb' then any other dependencies will be installed
automatically
145[01:41:37] <losgb1> HI, I have some issues using the
"pv" command in Debian Buster. I want to show a progress
bar for the command "srm" (similar to "rm").
When I pipe "pv" to "srm" like so ->
"srm -lr ./Desktop/test | pv" it displays a progress bar
but only the timer is active. No ETA, the progress bar doesn't
move. This is not what I'm looking for. When I pipe
"pv"
146[01:41:38] <losgb1> like so -> "pv ./Desktop/test |
srm -lr ./Desktop/test" I do not see a progress bar. But when I
quit the command using "ctrl+c", the command exits and a
resulting line shows the progress bar with all information present
(bytes parsed, ETA, time elapsed, etc.) except that, as I said, the
command exited and thus the operation is no longer active. Is
147[01:41:38] <losgb1> there any way that I could wht is shown
with after I use "ctrl+c" shown as the command is
progressing ? Meaning that I would have bytes parsed, ETA, time
elapsed, etc. showing progress ? Thans for the help.
156[01:52:15] <losgb1> losgb1: @mutante Hi, I don't see
anything, just carriage return to the line underneath. The idea is
to put it in a script so no human interaction, it has to be
contained in the command.
157[01:52:43] <sney> don't @ people on irc, most clients
ignore this kind of highlight
158[01:52:52] <losgb1> ok
159[01:53:12] <losgb1> sney That's what I wanted to do.
160[01:54:24] <mutante> I see the ping but I don't have the
answer.
161[01:54:46] <losgb1> Just reposting the question as the end
was not clear (messed up the text)
162[01:54:58] <losgb1> Hi, I have some issues using the
"pv" command in Debian Buster. I want to show a progress
bar for the command "srm" (similar to "rm").
When I pipe "pv" to "srm" like so ->
"srm -lr ./Desktop/test | pv" it displays a progress bar
but only the timer is active. No ETA, the progress bar doesn't
move. This is not what I'm looking for. When I pipe
"pv"
163[01:54:58] <losgb1> like so -> "pv ./Desktop/test |
srm -lr ./Desktop/test" I do not see a progress bar. But when I
quit the command using "ctrl+c", the command exits and a
resulting line shows the progress bar with all information present
(bytes parsed, ETA, time elapsed, etc.) except that, as I said, the
command exited and thus the operation is no longer active. Is
164[01:54:59] <losgb1> there any way that I could see what is
shown after I use "ctrl+c" as the command is progressing ?
Meaning that I would have bytes parsed, ETA, time elapsed, etc.
showing progress ? Thans for the help.
165[01:55:15] <losgb1> sney Ok, thanks.
166[01:56:42] <losgb1> mutante Thanks. (My bad sney)
167[01:57:11] <sney> I don't know either, I don't use
pv.
168[01:57:59] <losgb1> sney I just looked around for convenient
ways to see a progress bar while using a bash command. There are
others but pv seemed like the most integrated and less complicated
of commands.
179[02:03:58] <mutante> losgb1: what about just "pv | srm
-lr ./Desktop/test"
180[02:04:17] <mutante> I don't even know what srm does..
but the file name seemed to belong to that
181[02:04:40] <mutante> and examples just do "pv |
somecommand"
182[02:05:12] <mutante> losgb1: also this? "Use
–force option to force an operation. This option forces pv to
display visuals when standard error is not a terminal" ?
183[02:05:18] *** disillusion- is now known as disillusion
184[02:06:28] *** Joins: wilson (~wilson@replaced-ip)
185[02:07:16] <losgb1> mutante "pv | srm -lr
./Desktop/test" and "pv --force | srm -lr
./Desktop/test" do like "srm -lr ./Desktop/test | pv"
they show a progress bar but it is not moving, no ETA either. The
only information that is shown active is the amount of time the
command takes. So there is progress but nothing like I'm
looking for. It just tells me how much time
186[02:07:16] <losgb1> the command is currently taking.
196[02:10:25] <losgb1> mrkramps Hi. Yeah, the jist of it is that
it interacts between two commands and shows the progress. I tried
copying a file and it showed the progress as it was doing it, so
what I expect it to do. (the command was something like "pv
./Desktop/file > ./Downloads/file")
197[02:10:29] <freem> !man pv
198[02:10:29] <dpkg> man pv is probably at
replaced-url
199[02:10:51] <mrkramps> pv works pretty much like cat iirc
200[02:11:16] <mrkramps> so i am not sure it will work with rm
at all
201[02:12:16] <losgb1> mrkramps Well it works with rm but since
I am not trying to pipe it or use it within two commands it
doesn't behave as expected.
203[02:15:09] <freem> according to man (I didn't knew pv)
you need to give pv the expected size of input on command line args
204[02:15:23] <freem> if you pipe some input into it
205[02:15:30] <Gerowen> When installing to a laptop with an NVME
optane drive, what's the recommended way to install? Set the
larger drive as the target drive? Will the RAID/Optane settings in
the BIOS ensure that the optane drive continues working properly?
Can I ignore the optane drive altogether and just boot from the
larger SATA SSD?
209[02:16:52] <losgb1> freem Yeah, I saw that, I think it's
with flag -s But the idea is to implement it within a script. So the
idea of giving it the size of the file is not feasible, or
unpleasant. Even if I just used it casually it would be a hassle.
211[02:17:25] <losgb1> I mean there would be a way to extract
the file size and feed it to the command line and have the command
act on that but that seems a bit too much.
213[02:18:14] <losgb1> mrkramps Yeah, i saw that one. I tried
what the guy does with pv but still it only gave me a progress bar
with no ETA and just a timer.
214[02:20:20] *** Quits: tagomago (~tagomago@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
215[02:20:36] <losgb1> mrkramps And after that it deals with
directories and files. I am trying, in most cases, to delete one
file. I don't know if it would work with numerous files inside
a single directory (as with the file number count) but I don't
see it being the solution. It has to work for single files as well
as multiple files.
216[02:22:25] *** Quits: relipse (uid16131@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
227[02:40:46] <losgb1> mrkramps Nah. I don't know what
"$!" refers to, and apparently the option -d gives me the
file PID. But it only shows a progress bar non-active and a time
counter no ETA (juste like "srm -lr ./Desktop/test | pv")
228[02:41:03] *** Quits: leorat (~leorat@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
229[02:41:34] <mrkramps> losgb1, '$!' just gets the
pid of the former process
231[02:41:46] <mrkramps> like the pid of srm in this case
232[02:41:55] <mrkramps> but yeah, does not help either
233[02:42:59] <losgb1> mrkramps Ok. I tried piping "echo
$1" or "echo $@" but I couldn't get any result.
It would just return a line and give no more information to the
command. Like "pv ./Desktop/test | srm -lr ./Desktop/test |
echo $1/@"
237[02:44:06] <losgb1> What I wanted to do was echo the first
command so that it would show active progress, since when I cancel
the command with ctrl+c it gives me the necessary information, but
obviously, no progress.
238[02:44:16] <f8e4> judd: what is wrong?
239[02:44:43] <mrkramps> f8e4, you're talking to a bot
256[02:58:00] <freem> pv probably looks at how many bytes are in
input file, or if stdin, how many are provided as cmdline
257[02:58:58] <freem> thus, for a rm, you should start listing
files you need to count, and change each name to a single byte, pipe
that to wc -c I guess, and give that number thru a var to pv as arg
258[02:59:03] <losgb1> freem pv knows the byte size and can
therefore give you an eta
259[02:59:26] <freem> rm needs to give some info, too, dunno
about this
260[02:59:37] <freem> probably need some work there too
262[03:00:00] *** Quits: kawaiipunk (~from@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving this Club)
263[03:01:00] <losgb1> freem "thus, for a rm, you should
start listing files you need to count, and change each name to a
single byte, pipe that to wc -c I guess, and give that number thru a
var to pv as arg" Do you have a command handy ?
280[03:05:34] <freem> I think, you would need to change
srm's output so that it would only print 1 byte as output per
file deleted
281[03:05:36] <alexrelis[m]> Would it be safe to use Debian Sid
as a daily driver if you used btrfs and made snapshots to roll back
to in case anything goes wrong?
284[03:05:39] <dpkg> man srm is probably at
replaced-url
285[03:06:04] <freem> oh... ok, this is not just rm now
286[03:06:47] <losgb1> freem Nah, it's not just rm, but it
works like it. It wipes with zeros and stuff to delete files
"securely". It's a more agressive rm.
289[03:07:51] <freem> I'd say, have it print the names of
files it have deleted when it finished it, then, pipe it to, like,
"sed 's/^.*$/./'" and that should do the job
290[03:07:56] <mrkramps> i do not think it is possible to get
the ETA based on file sizes at all
291[03:08:03] <losgb1> I mean it can take a long time if you
don't give it a -l or -ll, it wipes with zeros 24 times I
believe if you don't issue thoes options.
294[03:08:20] <freem> you understand that "secure rm"
is really depending on medium, though?
295[03:08:58] <freem> maybe with srm -v ?
296[03:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1156
297[03:09:05] <freem> it says it's verbose, so, maybe?
298[03:10:04] <ectospasm> rm will depend on the filesystem, and
how it handles file deletes. A large file may be deleted quickly by
removing all the references to the inode, but the file is still
there.
299[03:10:04] *** Joins: Prints (~333@replaced-ip)
300[03:10:20] <ectospasm> srm or shred will overwrite the file
301[03:10:27] <losgb1> when i cancel out "pv ./Desktop/test
| srm -lr ./Desktop/test" this is what I get -> C64.0KiB
0:00:01 [63.5KiB/s] [> ] 0% ETA 4:33:03
302[03:10:33] <losgb1> With an ETA, apparently.
303[03:10:37] <freem> it also depends on the hardware
304[03:11:18] <losgb1> freem I tried issuing -v, it didn't
help. It gave me this "Using /dev/urandom for random input.Wipe
mode is insecure (two passes [0xff/random])Wiping
./Desktop/test"
305[03:11:21] <freem> SSD disks, for example, will try hard to
have same usage over all storage
314[03:13:46] <losgb1> Basically, the script I have is this
-> delete() {if [ "$1" != "" ]; then for i in
"$@"; do srm -lr "$i" doneelse if echo "You
must input at least one argument"; then false fifi}
323[03:16:25] <ectospasm> doneelse, fifif looks like parse
errors to me
324[03:16:31] <ectospasm> sorry, fifi
325[03:16:43] <ectospasm> Now, if you had newlines in there in
practice, that's different.
326[03:16:46] <freem> I'd suggest you to use
'${var:?"error message}' the 1st time you use a
variable
327[03:16:55] <losgb1> That's the irc, these are one
separate lines
328[03:16:57] <ectospasm> I hate variable brace expansions
329[03:17:17] <losgb1> It gives debu info to stdout ?
330[03:17:18] <tomreyn> the webchat joins lines
331[03:17:22] <losgb1> *debug
332[03:17:35] <alexrelis[m]> Would it be safe to use Debian Sid
as a daily driver if you used btrfs and made snapshots to roll back
to in case anything goes wrong?
333[03:17:52] <ectospasm> I wish Bash/Zsh had mnemonics for
those variable expansions, I can never remember what any of them do.
334[03:18:00] <mrkramps> alexrelis[m], at home maybe, but
don't try that in space
335[03:18:41] *** Quits: hisacro (~OBSD@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
336[03:19:07] <ectospasm> alexrelis[m]: sid can be quite
unstable. Some dear program may not work for a long time while the
developers figure out their next moves for its dependencies.
337[03:19:15] <freem> alexrelis[m]: and how do your system will
know it should rollback?
338[03:19:55] <ectospasm> freem: it'd be a manual process,
assuming it's not so broken you can't roll back manually
339[03:20:07] <alexrelis[m]> freem: Well I heard with btrfs I
could just have it so that if an update breaks something, I can go
back to the previous snapshot.
340[03:20:12] <ectospasm> But, that's where rescue ISOs
come in.
341[03:20:31] <freem> well, add busybox-static to your install
list, and learn to use it before things fall appart, and you'd
be able to repair anything :
342[03:20:32] <freem> :)
343[03:20:35] <alexrelis[m]> And I heard there is a way to
configure Grub to make entries of your previous snapshots.
344[03:21:33] <ectospasm> alexrelis[m]: you have to really think
about how you layout your subvolumes for that.
345[03:21:55] <ectospasm> Note that Btrfs snapshots don't
contain subvolumes
346[03:22:41] <ectospasm> So you have /subvol1/subvol2, your
snapshot of /subvol1 won't contain subvol2
352[03:30:12] <alexrelis[m]> ectospasm: Forgive me if I'm
misunderstanding how btrfs works but wouldn't I be able to just
make a subvolume for / and another for /home and create a snapshot
for / everytime I make changes to it?
354[03:30:42] <ectospasm> I use Btrfs snapshots to backup to the
cloud (Backblaze). So, I create a read-only snapshot of my home
directory (with thinks like ~/.cache and ~/src as subvolumes, so
they don't get included in the snapshot)
355[03:30:59] <ectospasm> alexrelis[m]: you could do that, sure.
356[03:31:15] <ectospasm> But I wouldn't do that with
Debian sid.
357[03:32:12] <ectospasm> And you really shouldn't be using
Btrfs unless you're running the latest kernel, which you
won't get from backports.
438[04:13:43] <ectospasm> freem: I don't usually need to
remember the number
439[04:13:49] <freem> oh, sorry then
440[04:13:58] <rr123> debian kernel has a few hundred MBs for
/lib/modules, good for hardware compatibility, too large for cloud
virtual machines, is there any cloud-kernel for debian?
446[04:16:07] <ectospasm> losgb1: run your srm command, in
another terminal (or backgrounded with & at the end), run `kill
-USR1 $(pidof srm).
447[04:16:24] <ectospasm> You could always get the PID of srm
through other means instead of pidof
448[04:16:31] <losgb1> Ok.
449[04:17:11] <losgb1> ectospasm But the idea is to use it in a
script
450[04:17:21] <losgb1> I'm not sure but I don't think
that would work
451[04:17:44] <losgb1> unless I can integrate -kill* into the
script and have it output on stdout
452[04:17:53] <rr123> freem: thanks! i guess there is no way to
select that at installation time, so I have to install the default
kernel, then add this one and replace the default 'big'
kernel?
453[04:18:27] <rr123> is there a tool to regenerate an
installation iso(i.e. replace the default kernel with cloud kernel)
454[04:18:28] <freem> rr123: exact
455[04:18:37] <ectospasm> You can get it with $! after you run
it in the background in your script, then loop until the process is
no longer in the process table.
456[04:18:43] <freem> I don't use the installed a lot,
though, so I may be wrong
457[04:18:51] <ectospasm> Still, I'd try it outside of the
script to make sure srm behaves that way
458[04:18:53] <ectospasm> It might not
459[04:19:01] <ectospasm> getting USR1 might kill it entirely
460[04:19:08] <losgb1> Ok.
461[04:19:16] <freem> rr123: I have built my own installation
scripts, so I really can't help much about the default
installed
462[04:19:45] <losgb1> ectospasm "You can get it with $!
after you run it in the background in your script, then loop until
the process is no longer in the process table." Any idea for a
command ?
463[04:20:05] <losgb1> Like a on liner ?
464[04:20:08] <rr123> freem: thanks. i used to play with
debootstrap and build small distro for myself, have not done that
for years
465[04:20:09] <losgb1> *one
466[04:20:29] <ectospasm> So, you're passing arguments to
your script? $1, $2, $*, $@?
469[04:20:37] <freem> debootstrap is how I install all my
systems myself
470[04:20:48] <losgb1> Let me post it again
471[04:20:58] <losgb1> delete() {if [ "$1" !=
"" ]; then for i in "$@"; do srm -lr
"$i" doneelse if echo "You must input at least one
argument"; then false fifi}
472[04:21:07] <rr123> freem: trying to make the minimal openbox
possible here for fun
473[04:21:14] <ectospasm> pastebin that, it looks terrible on
one line
474[04:21:16] <losgb1> As you can see I use $@
475[04:21:18] <losgb1> ok
476[04:21:22] <rr123> so far it's 2GB or so, want to see if
I can make it to 1GB
477[04:22:08] <freem> rr123: now you speak! although I
don't have uploaded my scripts yet
503[04:26:05] <rr123> just built-in everything I need for the
vm, nothing else
504[04:26:30] <freem> I had troubles updating kernels on VMs,
because they require around 500megs free disk to work
505[04:26:33] <ectospasm> losgb1: before you start scripting it,
make sure srm spits out progress when you send USR1 to it
506[04:26:40] <ectospasm> All of this scripting is for naught if
that doesn't work
507[04:26:47] <freem> that's really a lot
508[04:27:06] <losgb1> ectospasm How do I do that ?
509[04:27:10] <freem> that space is temp mostly, but still
510[04:27:21] <losgb1> Besides possible bugs, the script works.
511[04:27:30] <rr123> for clould kernel still the drivers takes
up 66MB, e.g infiniband for vm? not needed at all, and yes, kernel
for the cloud should be around 3MB instead of 72MB
512[04:27:31] <sney> the actual buster kernel image is 5.1M, the
initramfs is what's actually big. and initramfs size depends on
configuration
513[04:27:43] <losgb1> I mean it deletes and all, I got
confirmation from that.
514[04:28:04] <ectospasm> losgb1: are you using an X.org or
Wayland-based terminal emulator? Open up a new window or tab. If
you're using GNU screen or tmux, open a new pane or window. Run
srm in one, run the kill command in another
515[04:28:06] <rr123> sney: what's the point of initramfs
if the drivers is pre-known
517[04:28:46] <ectospasm> Or, in one shell run the srm command
with ampersand at the end, when your shell returns run the kill
pidof command
518[04:28:49] <sney> there is an option for a
'targeted' initramfs, that only includes drivers relevant
to the current system
519[04:29:09] <losgb1> ectospasm tried your commande as an alias
-> test () {} but it failed, it gave me a pid and when I ls -l to
verify if it had deleted gave me this Dec 12 02:29 'Unsaved
Document 1'[1 plus files present at ./Desktop
520[04:29:20] <losgb1> ok
521[04:29:32] <rr123> initramfs used to preload some drivers for
boot-up, I don't know why I need it at all on vm/cloud
522[04:30:08] <losgb1> * this -> [1]+ User defined signal 1
srm -lr "${i}"
533[04:31:33] <losgb1> So I run the srm command in one terminal
then the kill command in another one ? And that sould give progress
?
534[04:31:45] <rr123> sney: the virtio preload makes sense, but
that should be about it
535[04:32:31] <freem> what is virtio?
536[04:32:44] <freem> virtual I/O?
537[04:32:44] <sney> so start reading 'man
initramfs-tools' and anything it references, make your debian
vm have the smallest initrd possible. the tools are there.
538[04:32:53] <sney> freem: one common driver for virtualized
disk and network devices
539[04:32:59] <freem> ty
540[04:33:00] <losgb1> Tried 'kill -USR1 %1' and
failed
541[04:33:06] <losgb1> I might be doing it wrong
542[04:33:13] *** Quits: b1anc (~user@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
543[04:33:23] <losgb1> But the endgame is to use it in the
script I linked to.
545[04:33:29] <freem> rr123: if you manage to learn stuff and
post it somewhere, would you be kind enough to ping me with a
link?I'm really interested with thit topic
546[04:33:35] <losgb1> So I'm not sure that's the
proper way to do it.
587[04:40:13] <mason> I'm really curious now. I've got
4.9.0-14-amd64 where packages.debian.org shows linux-image-amd64
depending on linux-image-4.19.0-13-amd64, and I don't see a
kernel advisory...
588[04:40:23] <rr123> ectospasm: it has -F, -E, -e for patterns,
more than enough for me
589[04:40:29] <freem> oh, I walked into the troll, did I?
638[04:53:25] <losgb1> Okay calling it a night (nearly 5 am
here) thanks for the help. See you.
639[04:53:37] <freem> or, for what I did at work, mmap /dev/fb0
640[04:54:18] <rr123> mouse, keyboard, touchscreen, a few menus,
you need API and libraries to code them on top of fb
641[04:56:15] <freem> framebuffer + libinput
642[04:56:19] *** Quits: Tom01 (~tom@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
643[04:56:40] <freem> worked for me, but yeah, no opengl,
because I didn't even tried
644[04:56:52] <alexrelis[m]> I'm looking to get Virtualbox
on Debian, but there doesn't seem to be Vbox in Debian Stable
or Testing. There is a third party repo, but I heard that third
party repos in Debian are not a good idea. What is the safest way
for me to install Virtualbox on Debian?
645[04:56:56] <freem> I should have used drm, which is more
complex, and was overkill for the need
655[05:00:34] <rr123> freem: fb + libinput, so you write all
your own "widgets"
656[05:00:43] <freem> yep
657[05:00:58] <freem> same if you use SDL2 only though
658[05:01:06] <rr123> interesting, do you use QT at all
659[05:01:12] <freem> and SDL2 non-X is, as they say,
experimental
660[05:01:19] <alexrelis[m]> awal1: What do you suggest I do?
661[05:01:25] <freem> Aka: it does not work
662[05:01:28] <sney> !virtualbox
663[05:01:28] <dpkg> Oracle VM VirtualBox is
<virtualization> software. Not in buster and unlikely to be in
any future debian stable releases due to #794466. Unofficial
backports are available as well as 3rd party packages from Oracle,
see
replaced-url
666[05:02:34] <freem> nope, I went really low level that time,
because I had emergency
667[05:03:03] <freem> was the 3rd time one had to redo the
fucking UI, others used 1st electronJS, then SDL2
668[05:03:11] <awal1> alexrelis[m], i run unstable brach so i
can use virtualbox, but for you , being in stable brach, i suggest
you qemu-kvm, it is good
671[05:03:29] <alexrelis[m]> awal1: I actually use QEMU/KVM for
my actual virtualization needs, but there is a specific program I
need called GNS3 that requires Virtualbox to virtualize Cisco
networking equipment.
672[05:03:34] <freem> wrote shit code, and I had other stuff to
do than having to fix bugs in some shitty lib, so I went back to
good old direct access
673[05:03:53] <freem> well, except for input, since I used
libinput
676[05:04:18] <dpkg> When you get random packages from random
repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and
derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone
can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and
#debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about
<reinstall>
677[05:04:21] <alexrelis[m]> I'm torn between installing
Debian Sid+btrfs or Fedora+btrfs for this purpose.
678[05:04:28] <awal1> alexrelis[m], ^up to you
679[05:04:54] <freem> rr123: yes, I know, it seems to have
problems since few months...
680[05:04:56] <sney> alexrelis[m]: the packages from oracle are
probably what you want, or just run bullseye and use the sid
packages.
681[05:05:11] <rr123> freem: i actually never used libinput, is
it light-weight? or does it have dependency on evdev/mtdev/udev even
wayland compositors
688[05:05:55] <freem> ah, no, sdl2 built for framebuffer uses
someting which does not work
689[05:06:03] <freem> otherwise it uses wayland or xorg stuff
690[05:06:10] <awal1> alexrelis[m], no much to say apart what i
said
691[05:06:52] <alexrelis[m]> awal1: Thanks to you and anyone
else who helped me.
692[05:06:52] <awal1> apart vbox and qemu-kvm, there another 1 ,
i forgot the name
693[05:06:55] <freem> I basically wrote a lib to use libinput
and framebuffers
694[05:06:58] <awal1> but never tried it
695[05:07:07] <freem> a young colleague used it to build the
actual UI
696[05:07:09] <awal1> !virtualization
697[05:07:10] <dpkg> For resources concerning the use of Debian
as a host for virtual computers, or as a guest within a virtual
computer, see
replaced-url
698[05:07:14] <freem> rr123: ^
699[05:07:18] <awal1> vmware, yeah
700[05:07:20] <rr123> i feel libinput needs an xorg
backend(heavy), even xorg is running on top of fb
701[05:07:27] <awal1> but no idea about it
702[05:07:40] <freem> libinput is *used* by xorg, it thus
can't require xorg
709[05:08:19] <rr123> in the old days xorg can run on fb
710[05:08:27] <freem> writing libs is fun, writing graphics
stuff is fun, but UI? damn it's boring :)
711[05:08:32] <freem> yeah
712[05:08:35] <freem> the old days :
713[05:08:36] <freem> :)
714[05:09:15] <freem> sorry, I was playing, not focused on
discussion. Game ended, now I can answer better I think
715[05:09:57] <freem> libinput was, AFAIK, writen to be a
"driver" of xorg 1st and more importantly, wayland
716[05:10:31] <rr123> yes, so I never combined it with fb
717[05:10:39] <freem> it's role is to take input from
/dev/input and expose a C API which is actually usable without too
much assle
718[05:10:40] <rr123> SDL has its own way to do inputs
719[05:11:03] <freem> obviously, I only used the one-seat stuff
720[05:11:51] <freem> for graphics, I basically included only
/usr/include/linux/fb.h, which is... okay enough if you learned to
work with vesa modes decades ago :)
721[05:12:06] <rr123> on embedded-linux-GUI side many chose
android these days, removing its phone apps, but still it's
very heavy
722[05:12:07] <freem> basically, you write on screen as if it
was memory
725[05:12:37] <freem> I have a computer running LXDE with less
than 200 megs of ram
726[05:12:50] <freem> I didn't choose FB+libinput because
of memory
727[05:13:16] <rr123> why
728[05:13:27] <freem> I choosed them because the screen was
physically rotated one way, and the... huh... touchscreen (which
only does input) was rotated the other way
729[05:13:34] <rr123> just built libinput with its dependencies
under openwrt, it's 200KB in total
730[05:13:39] <freem> working on that with Xorg was overly
complex
731[05:14:00] <freem> it was stuff sent hundreds of kilometers
away of us, mind you
734[05:14:51] <freem> I'm not a sysadmin, I built something
as reliable as possible with what I knew. Was a lot better after
than before
735[05:15:18] <freem> it also gave me the will to learn more
about sysadmin stuff, tbh
736[05:15:28] <alexrelis[m]> It looks like Debian Fasttrack is a
work-in-progress feature that will allow packages that can only
exist in Sid to be backported to Debian stable!
737[05:15:48] <freem> I now want to stop writing C/C++ code and
start administering systems
738[05:16:10] <rr123> a while ago it's said framebuffer
will go away from kernel, as Linux foundation where Linus works are
all funded by big companies, who do not give embedded field a shit
739[05:16:28] <freem> well, debian 10 still have it :)
740[05:16:37] <rr123> freem: SRE and the like is highly sought
after these days, but I don't like the oncall part of sysadmin
741[05:16:49] <freem> SRE?
742[05:16:52] <rr123> i.e. you're called mid-night because
some server down or dns failures, not fun to me
743[05:17:01] <rr123> SRE site reliability engineer
744[05:17:04] <freem> I'd be okay with that
745[05:17:19] <ectospasm> Depends on your on call schedule
746[05:17:29] <ectospasm> And how often alerts come in
747[05:17:40] <freem> as long as I don't have to write
disgusting code because emergency is the norm
748[05:18:00] <ectospasm> if you call shell scripting
"emergency code"
749[05:18:06] <rr123> you might encouter more 'real'
emergency as a sysadmin guy
750[05:18:06] <freem> well
751[05:18:22] <freem> then write that shell code in C++, and
you'll understand my suffering
752[05:18:26] <rr123> i mean, when your server impact thousands
of people or even more, you're god there
753[05:18:31] <freem> yeah
754[05:18:32] <freem> good
755[05:18:42] <freem> at least it's real emergency, not
some bullshit
756[05:19:10] * rr123 heard two sysadmin guys are fired due to fat
fingers with 'rm -rf /'
757[05:19:11] <freem> and if that makes me think "fuck
it" then I'll leave IT and keep it for my fun
758[05:19:38] <ectospasm> rr123: that's why you should
never use absolute paths with rm
759[05:19:42] <rr123> the real valuable sysadmin these days are
DevOps, in addition to SRE
766[05:20:37] <freem> still, I can't understand what it
means
767[05:20:46] <freem> it's buzzword imo, that's all it
is
768[05:21:01] <rr123> not really
769[05:21:28] <freem> so teach me. I really need to learn that
kind of stuff
770[05:21:35] <rr123> the company i worked for has a smart
DevOps-guy, not the traditional IT guy who only knows how to do
windows re-"imaging"
771[05:22:13] <rr123> he actually sets up all the git,
code-review, test-run, build vm machines, toolchains, etc
772[05:22:26] <ectospasm> DevOps is an entire department at my
employer. They're all smart.
773[05:22:52] <freem> so, they are the ops of the devs?
774[05:23:10] <rr123> a beginner developer just run a script and
start coding, magically its code can be
reviewed/tested/submitted/released so the coder can really just
foucs on coding
775[05:23:29] <freem> and I say this because I consider ops
should help, and devs should also help... hum, confusing saying
776[05:24:13] <freem> so, a devops sets the infra for devs then
811[05:30:02] <rr123> for small company(like 10 people) i feel
redmine was good, nowadays github will help a lot
812[05:30:09] <freem> there, being able to code and to admin and
to manage emergencies is not a specific job, it's the norm
813[05:30:24] <freem> meh
814[05:30:28] <freem> github is crap
815[05:30:30] <rr123> startup requires you do whatever
816[05:30:47] <rr123> i use gitea
817[05:30:47] <freem> non-tech people won't find their way
there
818[05:31:03] <freem> and even some tech ones like we will hate
it
819[05:31:30] * rr123 still is interested in fb+libinput, getting GUI
work on small distro is always intriguing
820[05:31:39] <vptr> what's a good way to debug video
recording on obs, or just buster in general? When I record video, I
see my CPU jump to ~30% on all 8 cores. I would expect it to use a
lot less cpu.
855[05:38:56] <freem> I wanted to play to move our graphics code
on BBB, but boss never let me had any fun, just emergency after
emergency, even when I told something would happen lots of month
before, and was proposing solutions to fix it
856[05:39:11] <freem> TI was bought?
857[05:39:22] <rr123> no freescale was
858[05:39:24] <freem> oh, sorry, fades out...
859[05:39:31] <freem> I don't know what is freescale
860[05:39:33] <rr123> TI out of ARM-CPU for the most part
861[05:39:52] <rr123> Freescale used to be motorola's
semiconductor, now part of NXP
862[05:39:58] <freem> oh, ok
863[05:40:12] <rr123> it makes powerpc ,nowadays like everyone
else, it produces arm
864[05:40:32] <freem> I'd love to do some real low level
code someday (yeah, I know it contrasts with what I said earlier)
865[05:41:11] <rr123> for 10-person startup it's doomed to
be emergency after emergency, as surviving is rule #1, no surprise
to me, no wonder 95% startup will fail
866[05:42:17] <rr123> never been to Europe, how much percentage
do you pay for income? also do you all have like 3 month vacations
annually?
867[05:42:43] <rr123> in US it's about 2 weeks vacation and
some people even find it's hard to take it
868[05:43:26] <freem> 5 weeks vacation in france is the legal
minimum
869[05:43:32] <freem> it's also the norm
870[05:44:09] <freem> and I believe france is one of the most
worker-friendly countries?
871[05:44:48] <freem> vacations in US... how are those enforced?
872[05:45:07] <freem> I mean, is it just the boss which agrees
to gives them, or law enforced?
873[05:45:26] <dvs> freem: There are no law which mandate
vacations in the U.S.
874[05:45:35] <freem> as I though
875[05:45:41] <dvs> t
876[05:45:44] <freem> yep
877[05:46:03] <freem> almost 6 a.m. here, fingers are a bit
tired :)
882[05:46:39] <rr123> well, good morning then, have a nice sleep
:)
883[05:46:45] <freem> nope
884[05:46:58] <freem> I don't intend to sleep tonight,
it's almost dawn anyway
885[05:47:25] <dvs> damned?
886[05:47:29] <freem> (hum... except it's winter, so still
have some time)
887[05:47:32] <freem> nah
888[05:47:58] <freem> I went back to parent's home because
of covid and being alone etc
889[05:48:07] <quadrathoch2> wow i didn't know france had
more vacations than germany ^^
890[05:48:14] <freem> problem is, only time I don't have
them on me is night :)
891[05:48:23] <rr123> back to original subject, i'm
surprised there is no debian derivative distro that geared towards
to cloud installation meanwhile it's vendor neutural
892[05:48:39] <freem> quadrathoch2: AFAIK in germany, syndicates
are... shy
893[05:49:19] <freem> rr123: what would a debian child need for
that?
894[05:49:26] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
895[05:49:30] <freem> specific builds of which package?
896[05:49:41] <rr123> europe seems very socialism to me, high
taxes(good welfares), long vacations
897[05:49:42] <freem> would that be a lot of those, or just
kernel?
898[05:49:49] <quadrathoch2> freem i guess so, as french people
like to riot ;)
900[05:50:20] <freem> rr123: we are probably more socialists
than USAs, indeed, and i think it's because we did some...
fight, for it
901[05:50:26] <rr123> freem: a lean kernel with small
initrd/initramfs, along with some essential packages via debootstrap
902[05:50:52] <quadrathoch2> rr123 just remind yourself. alot of
countries have higher taxes, lower incomes, but at the end of the
month there is still more money in the bank account as life is not
as expensive
911[05:52:27] <rr123> will that make many people
'lazy'?
912[05:52:30] <freem> rr123: maybe. I didn't measure
913[05:52:53] <quadrathoch2> rr123 depends on the country, but
overall no
914[05:53:11] <freem> i don't think we are lazy. If we were
lazy in france, we would not have the money we have, right?
915[05:53:30] <quadrathoch2> freem just remind yourself that
germany and france are kinda special in the eu
916[05:53:41] <freem> we are moronics?
917[05:53:54] <freem> oh true, forgot the UK left :)
918[05:54:03] <quadrathoch2> xD
919[05:54:05] <rr123> if i worked hard earn 100 paying 50 for
tax and keep 50 in my own pocket, comparing to someone does not work
still got welfare worth at 40, why should I work hard then
920[05:54:31] <quadrathoch2> rr123 why would you pay 50% taxes
oO. (except you earn alot)
921[05:54:34] <freem> because you have your numbers wrong, for
example?
922[05:55:11] <rr123> canada is like paying 40% or so(if memory
serves)
933[05:57:09] <quadrathoch2> rr123 and that's why with such
a job you should probably stay in the US
934[05:57:11] <freem> *all* of the people working 8H per day.
Not only the lazy ones.
935[05:57:28] <rr123> i'm talking about the above-average
engineers, not outstanding ones, for those, their earning has no
limit
936[05:58:15] <quadrathoch2> rr123 just to give you an example,
here in germany after university, most engineers don't earn
anything like 6 digits per year
937[05:58:22] <quadrathoch2> more like 50k
938[05:58:32] <freem> your so beloved engineers can't do
shit without people doing the actual assembly of pieces, cleaning up
their screens, buiding their homes.
939[05:58:36] <rr123> converted to us dollars how much is that
then
940[05:58:44] <quadrathoch2> 60k
941[05:58:45] <freem> ah sorry
942[05:59:00] <freem> forget what I said, it's misplaced.
943[05:59:15] <rr123> here for CS fresh out started at 70K i
think, for good unversities(e.g. top 100 in CS) they can earn six
figures
944[05:59:44] <quadrathoch2> rr123 at least here in germany,
because managers don't earn as much, engineers can't earn
more than managers
945[05:59:53] <rr123> freem: heard about mexican workers? they
helped us to build a strong economy, many of them are hard working
folks
946[05:59:56] <freem> how much cash to spend when they have a
problem, though?
947[06:00:19] <rr123> freem: are you kidding?
948[06:00:24] <rr123> Americans never save
949[06:00:33] <freem> rr123: I don't doubt that, and
I'm sure I was not fair, which is why I said "forget what
I said, it's misplaced."
950[06:01:17] <quadrathoch2> rr123 welp, we have here the
equivalent of mexians (germany had turks, austria had eastern europe
countries like hungary, czech republic) france idk ^^
951[06:01:25] <freem> I really should not have said that, it
just shows how much I don't know anything
952[06:01:53] <freem> we have... had many countries, depends on
timestamp
953[06:02:21] <themill> So... back to Debian user support ...
954[06:02:28] <freem> italians at a time, now it's more
arabic peoples
955[06:02:40] <freem> themill: sure?what whas the question?
956[06:02:40] <rr123> Rule #1 we don't save Rule #2 when we
need more, we print
957[06:02:47] <rr123> :(
958[06:03:09] <freem> rr123: I believe we have someone with an
actual debian related question here :)
959[06:03:28] <rr123> oops, time to work
960[06:03:29] <derpadmin> rule #3 your on your own in a pandemic
961[06:03:33] <derpadmin> :(
962[06:03:40] <freem> our exchange was fun, and OT, but now is a
real stuff to do :)
963[06:03:59] <freem> I don't wanna be banned for not
helping :)
964[06:04:11] <rr123> :)
965[06:04:25] <derpadmin> nobody helped me with my wake on lan
966[06:04:30] <derpadmin> I rtfm'ed
967[06:04:31] <derpadmin> :)
968[06:04:41] <derpadmin> I was shutting down the pc like an
idiot
969[06:04:46] <derpadmin> instead of hibernating
970[06:04:52] <derpadmin> wol works like a charm
971[06:05:04] <derpadmin> on a br0 interface
972[06:05:15] <freem> br0?
973[06:05:21] <derpadmin> bridge in debian
974[06:05:27] <freem> thx
975[06:05:28] <derpadmin> you can call it waht you want
976[06:05:30] <quadrathoch2> derpadmin is wol nowadays working?
977[06:05:30] <derpadmin> bridge0
978[06:05:36] <quadrathoch2> reliably?
979[06:05:49] <derpadmin> it has been for a while quadrathoch2
980[06:05:55] <freem> wait...
981[06:06:00] <derpadmin> it is less debian and more bios
982[06:06:20] <derpadmin> if your nic support iy
983[06:06:21] <freem> derpadmin: your physical computer uses a
bridged NIC for WoL?
984[06:06:21] <derpadmin> it
985[06:06:30] <derpadmin> freem, correct
986[06:06:35] <freem> why?
987[06:06:48] <freem> why not just use a normal eth NIC?
988[06:07:08] <quadrathoch2> derpadmin the last time I looked
into it it didn't (but honestly that was like 2003)
989[06:07:16] <freem> en.. wl..; whatever shit they are named
now
990[06:07:19] <derpadmin> the bridge was created so the vms can
talk and be on the same networked than the host (bridge mode)
991[06:07:37] <derpadmin> I have 2 vm
992[06:07:37] <freem> haha!
993[06:07:40] <rr123> you still should use the real physical eth
i think
1057[06:14:39] <freem> what is hibernate? It is, AFAIK, store
state on disk, poweroff the computer (like, unplug any powersource),
powerup it anew, boot it, and it retrieves the state
1058[06:14:41] * rr123 runs a dell PC that is 7 years old and was
worrying about some capacitor will blow up one day
1076[06:17:50] <rr123> Hibernate writes everything to your hard
drive and completely powers down the system. --- you're
probably right, never did 'systemctl hibernate' myself,
always do 'systemctl suspend'
1077[06:17:52] <derpadmin> freem ? all components shutdown?
1078[06:17:57] <freem> can't remember all files though...
but I remember linux distros don't do that diff
1080[06:18:12] <freem> derpadmin: almost all components
1081[06:18:20] <rr123> uspend puts everything into RAM, and shuts
off pretty much everything but what's needed to maintain that
memory, and detect startup triggers.
1082[06:18:25] <freem> ram, and motherboard, and some chipsets
1083[06:18:26] <rr123> s/uspend/suspend/
1084[06:18:49] <derpadmin> my use case was for an eventual power
outage
1085[06:18:51] <freem> ty rr123 :)
1086[06:18:55] <derpadmin> leaving the country for a month
1087[06:19:08] <derpadmin> and want my ups to take over for as
long as possible
1088[06:19:12] <freem> power outage? But it's not hibernate
nor suspend here
1089[06:19:27] <freem> it's a shutdown state
1090[06:19:35] <derpadmin> hmm, let me show wou script on main
boc
1091[06:19:38] <derpadmin> box
1092[06:19:53] <freem> then, on some pastebin service, please?
1093[06:19:57] <rr123> wol is supposed to wake up a shutdown
system
1094[06:20:04] <freem> exactly
1095[06:20:29] <rr123> pretty much everything is powered down
except the NIC has little power there
1096[06:20:29] <freem> you plan shutdowns, and you trigger
shutups :)
1114[06:23:32] <rr123> actually how to wake up a
locked-up/sleep/suspend/hibernate/power-off system is important
these days when people work from home with some remote machines in
the office
1115[06:23:36] <freem> huh... no... the end stuff should also be
removed... I should not react, but think
1116[06:23:42] <derpadmin> root@homebase:~# /usr/sbin/pwrstat
-status | grep State | sed 's|State\.*||g' | tr -d
[:space:]
1117[06:23:43] <derpadmin> Normal
1118[06:24:12] <freem> grep foo | sed should merit death by wifi
pending
1119[06:24:34] <derpadmin> the world runs on grep foo sed
1120[06:24:54] <freem> that's why there is so much wifi
connection timeouting
1121[06:25:01] <derpadmin> :D
1122[06:25:16] <freem> oh damn, I didn't thought that thing
could even make sense :)
1123[06:25:23] <freem> now I'm proud
1124[06:26:18] <freem> let me review it more, or maybe rr123 will
do, being more awake than I am
1125[06:26:32] <derpadmin> it works like a charm
1126[06:26:47] <derpadmin> I pull the plug of the ups
1232[06:46:53] <derpadmin> I was expectig it would work on
shutdown too
1233[06:46:57] <xnaas> Bit of a strange question, probably...if I
install "fonts-noto-color-emoji" I can see emoji just fine
in my terminal (SSH'd into a headless Debian server), but...I
can't type any emoji in. Or paste one in. Any emoji is
seemingly lost...thoughts?
1248[06:48:26] <freem> and I can't help on how to fix it,
neither
1249[06:49:06] <freem> well, it's a guess with lot of
annoying questions to do before
1250[06:49:10] <derpadmin> but I could try the other systemctl
commands
1251[06:49:14] <derpadmin> such as halt
1252[06:49:17] <freem> and still may be a bad one
1253[06:49:18] <derpadmin> and poweroff
1254[06:49:55] <Ede|Popede> xnaas: also pasting from a visible
emoji in the terminal?
1255[06:49:55] <freem> hum
1256[06:50:17] <freem> what I understood is, hibernate works, not
poweroffs?
1257[06:50:25] <derpadmin> correct
1258[06:50:35] <derpadmin> but I did the old school shutdown -h
command
1259[06:50:40] <xnaas> Not exactly sure what you're asking,
but, yeah, I can't paste an emoji either by copying from my
host machine or even by highlighting one visible to me in the
terminal
1260[06:51:05] <derpadmin> which probably translates to systemctl
halt in the systemd world
1261[06:51:09] <freem> the old school shutdown command heh? Have
you tried a which shutdown?
1262[06:51:24] <freem> then, ls -l $(which shutdown)
1263[06:51:25] <derpadmin> will point to systemd I assume
1264[06:51:31] <freem> yep
1265[06:51:40] <freem> because init is also responsible to
extinct
1266[06:51:50] <freem> that's old school, too
1267[06:52:20] <freem> do you think I could qualify as sysadmin?
:)
1268[06:52:27] <derpadmin> big time yes
1269[06:52:38] <Ede|Popede> xnaas: yep, the latter i meant. but
since you're on SSH it's what i'd blame. midnight
commander has checkboxes for the displayed character set (important
when you go UTF-8 vs. latin-something) *AND* for "8-bit
input". maybe the transport or the server while receiving the
data messes it up somehow.
1270[06:52:43] <freem> thanks. I have hard times trusting me
1271[06:53:17] <xnaas> Ede|Popede I'm sure I'm making
things more difficult by SSH'ing into my Debian box from a
Windows machine... :)
1272[06:53:18] <freem> took 10 years to think I was a good C++
dev, and now I understand it, I want to go sysadmin :D
1273[06:53:34] <derpadmin> I found the man for init but not for
extinct
1274[06:53:58] <derpadmin> c++ is an asset
1275[06:53:58] <Ede|Popede> xnaas: probably. are they still going
with their insane proprietary CP's?
1276[06:54:21] <derpadmin> every programming language us
1277[06:54:21] <Ede|Popede> xnaas: can you try from WSL or a
linux box?
1278[06:54:30] <freem> that's wrong
1279[06:54:37] <freem> programming languages are not assets
1280[06:55:04] <freem> paradigms are assets
1281[06:55:43] <freem> Bourne, SQL, C are important, yes.
1282[06:55:49] <derpadmin> well put
1283[06:56:05] <freem> but someone which can read/write java will
learn C in no time, same for php or ruby
1284[06:56:26] <freem> bourne... is close to msdos really
1285[06:56:37] <freem> sql? I don't know
1286[06:57:05] <freem> lisp, haskell, all those functionnal
languages? You know one, you can code in the others, too
1287[06:57:33] <freem> programming is not mastering syntax,
it's handling ways of thinking
1288[06:57:53] <xnaas> Ede|Popede yeah, looks like Windows'
native SSH implementation is to blame. I should've thought to
try WSL2. 🙃
1289[06:57:59] <freem> otherwise, I suck, because I need my
compiler to check for me :)
1300[06:58:58] <derpadmin> 1:00am, going to hit the bed
1301[06:58:58] <xnaas> Ede|Popede almost midnight for me! 😱
(been up since 6am)
1302[06:59:00] <freem> rr123: I've always fucked the
fashion, and I'll continue to do so
1303[06:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1155
1304[06:59:05] <Ede|Popede> xnaas: just an addon question, how
about putty?
1305[06:59:23] <xnaas> Never cared much for putty tbh.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
1306[06:59:33] <freem> xnaas: It's 7a.m for me, and I'm
up since 10a.m
1307[06:59:52] <xnaas> hope you're going to bed soon, freem
;P
1308[06:59:59] <freem> haha good question
1309[07:00:06] <freem> not now clearly
1310[07:00:12] <xnaas> Soon™ :)
1311[07:00:20] <rr123> g++10 is probably better than clang++ for
the first time since quite a while, -Weverything is a little
aggressive i think
1312[07:00:21] <freem> also I have fun helping with WoL
1313[07:00:24] <Ede|Popede> xnaas: i think it's the only
thing i ever used to connect from a windows box to linux. generally
tried to avoid the tools microsoft packaged with their OSes xD
1334[07:02:51] <freem> I know both ADA and Rust only by
reputation
1335[07:03:10] <freem> I see nothing I can't do with what I
currently know
1336[07:03:22] <rr123> with c why c++ is the question
1337[07:03:29] <trui> well, this is sufficiently offtopic. for
the record, rr123, tax in Canada is 19% for 50k, 28% for 100k, 40%
for 225k and it maxes out at 53% of your pay at 10 million
1338[07:03:35] <freem> and I know it well. Should I throw my
knowledge for... something which have only 1 implementation?
1514[10:53:14] <ngz> Hello. I just updated to testing and I am
encountering keyboard issues. The more annoying one is that
"ISO Level 3 Shift" has no affect on some parts (but not
all) of the keyboard, e.g., in numbers row, starting from 5.
I'm using French bépo layout, if that matters. Do you
have an idea about what could be causing this?
1517[10:58:49] *** Quits: ialokin (ialokin@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1518[10:59:48] <ngz> Interestingly, "xev" properly
detects those key combinations, e.g., Level3+5 is properly
associated to "multiply" sign, but, for example, in a
terminal or in the default text editor, nothing is shown upon key
press.
1534[11:13:33] <ngz> dob1: It's a Level 3 modifier key
1535[11:13:39] <ngz> hence the name
1536[11:14:58] <ngz> As another data point, switching keyboard
layout, e.g., using regular French layout instead of Bépo
variant, has no effect on the problem.
1537[11:16:44] <mrkramps> ngz, "The Third Level Chooser is
not automatically mapped to the Right Alt or AltGr key "
1541[11:18:33] *** Quits: azeem (~mbanck@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1542[11:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1162
1543[11:21:55] <ngz> mrkramps: Well, actually, I mapped it to the
PrtScr key, but xev does properly detect it and some characters
work, e.g. pressing "Level 3 + u" in a terminal prints
"ù", as expected in my Bépo layout. Note
that the same key combination has no effect in gEdit, for some
reason.
1544[11:22:11] <jelly> ngz: does it work in "xterm"?
Perhaps native wayland apps behave differently from X11 apps like
xev
1549[11:23:47] <ngz> My gut feelings is that it is Wayland or
IBus related somehow (I didn't tweak IBus)
1550[11:24:31] <jelly> the silly workaround might be to switch to
Xorg-based session then instead of wayland, but this sounds like
it's worth fixing before the release
1551[11:24:38] <jelly> !debian-next
1552[11:24:38] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for
testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not*
on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is
invite only)." it means you did not read it's on
irc.oftc.net. See also
replaced-url
1592[11:48:30] <no_gravity> ratrace: With an app you can do that
of course. But that will put your balls in the fridge of some 16
year old script kiddie from the other side of the planet.
1593[11:48:47] <jelly> no_gravity: I like kdeconnect but its sftp
server isn't 100% reliable
1594[11:49:08] <no_gravity> jelly: Is that in the Debian repos?
1666[12:18:37] <no_gravity> unborn: Buetooth would be cool too. I
have no idea what happens when I pair my phone and my laptop over
bluetooth. Will it let me transfer directories?
1671[12:19:57] <Spar7an> Hey, is this where I ask debian package
related questions?
1672[12:20:03] <no_gravity> unborn: Then I think I can cook up a
web based solution that is more convenient.
1673[12:20:15] <nkuttler> Spar7an: just ask
1674[12:21:06] <unborn> no_gravity: or use usb hdd (ssd) as
moving whole stuff like dirs.. if your phone supports usb2go which
most made after 2018 does.. this way you have backup on your usb ssd
and if you need files to transfer anywhere just plug that usb ssd
(hdd) and copy those out..
1675[12:21:49] <no_gravity> unborn: How would that work? What
type of device would I attach to my phone?
1676[12:22:00] <unborn> no_gravity: sure thing.. do whatever you
would prefer.. I do ssd transfer.
1677[12:22:10] <unborn> no_gravity: what phone you have?
1678[12:22:15] <no_gravity> unborn: Pixel 5.
1679[12:23:15] <Spar7an> In my package, I have a postinst script
with code "echo 'source fileName' >>
~/.bashrc" but for some reason its not appending to bashrc
file, anyone know about this?
1680[12:23:29] <unborn> no_gravity: you need usb2go cable and usb
hdd or ssd or usb stick and that's it. I think pixel have some
sort of file manager build in.. just plug usb disk into phone open
file manager and copy or move files from phone to ssd and you done.
1681[12:23:36] *** Quits: oiaohm (~oiaohm@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1682[12:23:53] <no_gravity> unborn: That sounds like an
interesting solution.
1698[12:28:25] <unborn> no_gravity: great, problem solved.
1699[12:28:47] <ngz> I investigated further about my keyboard
issues. For the record Level3 modifier (e.g., AltGr key), does not
work on Wayland applications (e.g., gEdit). It seems that it is
triggered by a keyboard layout option: altwin (i.e., Alt becomes
Ctrl, Win becomes Alt), deactivating this option "fixes"
the problem, but obviously is sub-optimal.
1700[12:28:48] <no_gravity> unborn: Well, *if* the android files
app can copy directories ... let me see ...
1702[12:29:28] <unborn> no_gravity: it does. btw its debian off
topic, perhaps next time ask on android channel? :)
1703[12:29:45] <no_gravity> unborn: I did. But people in #android
only know how to install apps.
1704[12:30:16] <Spar7an> @mrkramps ohh, so you think I can do
something like /home/userName/.bashrc?
1705[12:30:30] <unborn> sure. there is debain-offtopic channel I
think.. anyway you select folder as you would select file, then copy
or move and youre done.
1706[12:30:34] <no_gravity> unborn: Ha, copying a directory
worked just fine :)
1707[12:30:39] <mrkramps> Spar7an, an absolute path will do ...
for ONE single user
1708[12:30:42] <no_gravity> unborn: Thanks man! That was great
help!
1711[12:31:50] <no_gravity> Its pretty cool. This way you can
have literally infinite memory with you for fotos and videos .. just
plug in a USB stick and move them all there.
1712[12:31:52] <mrkramps> Spar7an, i'd expect there is a
more elegant solution
1713[12:32:31] <mrkramps> no_gravity, so your actual problem was
more like storage capacity?
1714[12:32:40] <no_gravity> mrkramps: No, this discovery is just
a side effect.
1721[12:36:47] <unborn> mrkramps: just standard file app build in
with your phone will do... I agree, but remember before was only
those apps like google photos, drive ugly dropbox etc.. so not many
people know about otg
1722[12:37:01] <Spar7an> mrkramps Mmm what do you think might be
an 'elegant solution'? (am new to this so don't mind
if that was a noob question)
1723[12:37:20] <unborn> and since google will soon going to
charge money for storage many will pay ;)
1724[12:38:04] <mrkramps> Spar7an, a package is - typically -
installed for all users. so an entry in private configs of a single
user is not ideal
1725[12:38:38] <unborn> mrkramps: it could be but run as root
under root profile
1737[12:40:19] <mrkramps> Spar7an, could you please elaborate
what exactly you are trying to achieve?
1738[12:40:40] <unborn> other way could be that user run script
in terminal with regular command and then terminal ask for su
password - finish the job and log out rightaway to normal user
terminal
1741[12:42:31] <unborn> mrkramps: I think he want to run some
after install setup or something like it? you remember chrungbang
distro? they had something like that
1742[12:42:59] <Spar7an> mrkramps ok, so I have a completion file
(which auto completes when double tab'ed) so I need to source
that file in order for auto completion to work for my script, I
thought its a good idea to make use of postinst to achieve this
1754[12:47:28] <unborn> nkuttler: he can still put in his script
on start up text to explain what user is about to do and give choice
0 or 1 if 0 then proceed if 1 standard exit
1755[12:47:48] <mrkramps> Spar7an, that's good ... but why
an additional line in bashrc?
1768[12:54:28] <Spar7an> mrkramps even then, I need to source it
right?
1769[12:54:39] <mrkramps> Spar7an, yes
1770[12:54:51] <mrkramps> actually, all the completitions are
sourced :D
1771[12:54:56] <mrkramps> i just did not know this
1772[12:55:06] <unborn> :)
1773[12:55:25] <Spar7an> unborn no restart doesn't work, I
have to source it before restarting bash
1774[12:55:39] <Spar7an> mrkramps xD yeah I just read it too
1775[12:56:12] <Spar7an> been trying out lot of things since like
4 hours and then decided to come here
1776[12:56:44] <unborn> Space_Man: sorry - my bad, I though that
you did sourced and just looking for way to restart bash.. I should
read more carefully.. anyway make your self .md file and document
everything.. in case it will came handy in future ;)
1777[12:58:05] <Spar7an> unborn that's a good idea, I keep
forgetting things. Thanks man :)
1778[12:58:46] <mrkramps> Spar7an, all files in
/etc/bash_completition.d/ are sourced at the end of the script
/usr/share/bash-completition/bash_completition which is called on
login by /etc/profile.d/bash_completition
1779[13:00:07] <mrkramps> actually ... not called, but also
sourced
1823[13:36:16] <Spar7an> mrkramps so, /etc/bash_completion.d/ is
depreciated, basically
1824[13:36:16] <Spar7an> - I had to have same name as my script
(with .bash) for completion script
1825[13:36:16] <Spar7an> - Instead placing my completion script
in a sub folder (/usr/share/bash-completion/completions/myfolder) I
had to place it in (/usr/share/bash-completion/completions/) without
sub folder
1832[13:39:53] <Spar7an> mrkramps also by doing that I don't
have to source or open new shell, if you had not told me about this
I would be stuck at this for 1 more day probably, thanks man :)
1886[14:06:22] <platypo> mrkramps, i seem to have enabled sid in
a drop in in sources.list.d at some point and unfortunately i
don't remember exactly what i did then. I think i just
installed a package with all dependencies. I now ran apt-get
dist-upgrade without sid and it seems to run but i can't
install some packages so i guess it didn't work out too fine
1887[14:07:48] <mrkramps> platypo, you have a gui package manager
installed? muon or synaptic?
1909[14:14:25] <platypo> abrotman is it a necessity to know? I
have installed some packages using apt that are not from sid wich
are now listed among the local/obsolete packages in synaptic
1910[14:14:31] <platypo> 3 to be exact
1911[14:15:17] <mrkramps> platypo, run "aptitude search
?obsolete > obsolete-packages.txt"
1912[14:15:44] <mrkramps> and upload txt to
replaced-url
1947[14:34:55] <platypo> it doesn't matter if this is too
bad i am aware that i might have to set up the system completely new
1948[14:34:57] <abrotman> platypo: from a console, I guess
'dpkg --configure -a' gives the same result ?
1949[14:35:38] <mrkramps> platypo, downgrading libc6 is just a
bit tricky
1950[14:35:50] <platypo> abrotman this leads me to another issue
i haven't figured out yet: when logged in as su in terminal i
don't have /sbin and /usr/sbin in $PATH allthough it is set in
/etc/profile
1951[14:35:58] <platypo> but i will try from another tty
1958[14:37:53] <platypo> ok something is messed up badly. i
can't log in as root from another tty and i can't su :
Authentication failure (without password prompt)
1959[14:39:03] <abrotman> can you login as any user?
1960[14:39:38] <platypo> abrotman nope: "Login
incorrect" without password prompt. I hesitate to close the
terminal window now.
1961[14:40:05] <platypo> guess i'll go cry in the corner a
bit and set up debian freshly
1962[14:40:39] <abrotman> platypo: Downgrading in Debian is
tricky, and libc makes it even moreso.
1963[14:41:27] <mrkramps> platypo, you're using special
non-ascii charaters in your password?
1964[14:41:37] <platypo> mrkramps it doesn't even prompt for
one
1965[14:42:18] <platypo> abrotman, yes and enabling sid in the
repositories is dumb i hope i've learned that now
1966[14:42:45] <abrotman> platypo: Do you remember what you were
actually trying to install from sid?
1967[14:42:52] <abrotman> platypo: I'm asking because
sometimes there are other methods
1968[14:43:18] <platypo> abrotman not exactly. But i guess
without root access i can't achieve much now
1969[14:43:24] <mrkramps> wait, why do you have to login from
another tty?
1970[14:43:33] <mrkramps> is your desktop env frozen?
1971[14:43:33] <abrotman> platypo: you don't have any root
terminal anywhere?
1972[14:43:44] <platypo> because i can't log in as root in
terminal window
1973[14:43:54] <mrkramps> sudo is not working?
1974[14:44:14] <platypo> i never used sudo i am not in sudoers
group
1975[14:44:36] <nkuttler> platypo: if your shell still starts you
might be able to boot into single user mode.. that being said, a
reinstall would most likely be faster than trying to fix this
2290[19:19:33] <mrkramps> gentoo is lengendary for its security?!
so what?
2291[19:19:36] *** Quits: danwellby (~danwellby@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2292[19:19:38] <Franciman> the security updates are always
delivered, they don't depend on the release cycle. So if for
example the software foo gets a security fix
2293[19:19:45] <Franciman> you get it too, you don't have to
wait for the next release
2294[19:19:55] <Franciman> an important security fix*
2296[19:21:04] <infosec_yo> so gentoo is better than debian ?
2297[19:21:08] <gnat_x> infosec_yo: if you don't trust the
links people offer here, you are welcome to search the same docs
yourself. unless you are using some weird irc client no debian.org
link will have a google redirect.
2298[19:21:16] *** Quits: mulot (~tyzef@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2299[19:21:23] <infosec_yo> i heard debian website got hacked a
while back too.
2300[19:21:42] <gnat_x> infosec_yo: it depends what you want out
of a linux distro. any computer can be configured insecurely no
matter what OS.
2302[19:22:09] <ratrace> guise... it's troll. same
nonsensical questions asked in #gentoo, got banned. then moved to
gentoo-chat, where we had some fun
2303[19:22:30] <gnat_x> fair. i'll go back to my upgrades
now...
2309[19:23:50] <infosec_yo> seems like debian are looking to gang
up on new dudes in the FOSS field.
2310[19:23:55] <gnat_x> infosec_yo: refusing to read
documentation makes you either a troll, or someone who doesn't
actually want to learn anything. in either case, it is a troll move.
2311[19:24:15] <infosec_yo> i just read it but its not
sufficient.
2326[19:28:02] <omarek> Hi, which top level dirs experience the
most write access in Linux? I'm thinking of migrating my system
to SSD but want to make it last longer.
2327[19:28:04] *** Quits: Prints (~333@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2328[19:28:16] <infosec_yo> use a delay spray.
2329[19:28:17] <omarek> One idea I have is: /var, especially
/var/log
2330[19:28:30] <ratrace> omarek: unless you have some very, very
old SSD, you're completely wasting your time
2331[19:28:42] <infosec_yo> yea as ratrace said.
2332[19:28:54] <gnat_x> omarek: putting var log on its own
filesystem with lvm is a good idea though.
2333[19:28:59] <omarek> ratrace: I think it's the opposite
in many cases. SLC are the most durable.
2334[19:29:08] <infosec_yo> yea use durex.
2335[19:29:11] <ratrace> because SSDs these days, and I'm
talking like last 5+ years, are so robust, that normal desktop use
won't even approach any serious wear in warrnty time
2336[19:29:19] <omarek> More modern types of SSD often pack
information more tightly and it reduces durability.
2337[19:29:40] <sney> have you experienced this reduced
durability? or are you regurgitating something you saw on a hardware
website?
2338[19:29:45] <omarek> ratrace: And warranty time is what, 2
years typically?
2339[19:29:45] <ratrace> but overall durability got wya way way
better. and this is 5 years old now:
replaced-url
2340[19:29:59] <ratrace> omarek: 2 on cheap-os, 5 on some better
ones
2341[19:30:24] <omarek> Can we agree that SSDs wear out a lot
more from writing than reading?
2342[19:30:39] <ratrace> yes, but their resilience is FAR greater
than modern use cases deamnd of them
2343[19:30:59] <ratrace> unless you have constant streaming at
many tens of MB/s (like, say, video editing use cases), you
don't have to worry
2344[19:31:13] <sney> I still have almost every SSD I've
ever bought, and the only time I've seen one die, it was from a
factory defect.
2345[19:31:14] <ratrace> DEFINITELY not worry with some
"most writable dirs" in linux. that's insignificant
2347[19:31:50] <omarek> Do you all really feel so trolled by this
question? Is it a common question?
2348[19:32:03] <ratrace> omarek: I'll give you some hard
numbers. I run gentoo, and that means building a lot of software
weekly. all goes on the SSD. in the last 5 years I accumulated less
than 20 TBW. the disk is rated to ~50 I think. And that's an
old drive now
2349[19:32:15] <sney> if you want to use an "optimized"
directory structure to make yourself feel better, go ahead, nobody
can stop you.
2351[19:32:34] <sney> but there is no actual justification for
this
2352[19:34:05] <ratrace> but if you're hell bent on
"optimizing" like that .... run iotop in cumulative mode
for a week while you use the computer normally. then observe what
did the most writing
2353[19:34:14] <omarek> Wow I feel like the time I called Rust a
'hobby programming language'.
2354[19:34:51] <ratrace> omarek: you're given valid advice
not waste time with useless "optimizations". if you
don't value that, I have no words for you then. but go ahead.
run iotop for a week, your question will be answered.
2355[19:35:19] <ratrace> iotop in cumulative mode, sort by MB/s
written
2356[19:35:50] <omarek> Why are you so grumpy today?
2357[19:37:01] <aminvakil> omarek: move /tmp to memory, that may
help you write less on your ssd and it boosts your performance too
2358[19:37:11] <sney> it would be irresponsible for a support
channel to reinforce this myth that normal use kills SSDs.
2362[19:38:32] <omarek> I just installed iotop because the name
sounds intriguing. I'm missing something because command is not
found yet I have the man page. Usually ubuntu people tell you to
'run it with sudo' which means that you need to prepend
the command with /sbin/ . But my trick is failing me...
2381[19:46:22] <ratrace> just requires you to be aware of any
programs that actually do use /tmp for write intensive tasks, for
example data/media/format conversion things...
2382[19:46:30] <sney> zswap is another nice one, let linux do its
typical healthy swap dance without actually using swap on disk,
unless things are really out of control
2383[19:46:32] <ratrace> (so your memory isn't overrun)
2384[19:47:11] <omarek> Knowing people, we will probably soon get
games which require 100's of GB being written all the time.
2385[19:47:35] <omarek> Because whenever a new better computing
technology comes out, programmers respond by becoming lazier.
2386[19:47:42] <ratrace> Actually... Borderlands 3 under Proton
behaves similarly. Each run re-downloads few GB of vulkan
shaders....
2413[19:55:08] <ratrace> omarek: SSds don't...... spin......
do you even...... what?
2414[19:55:19] <omarek> That's slightly counter-intuitive at
first. You'd think the benefit for mechanical drives would be
bigger, but when you start thinking about spinning plates...
2415[19:55:43] <ratrace> what?
2416[19:56:39] * sney assumed 'spinning' was metaphorical
2438[20:00:31] *** Fufu is now known as FuturePilot
2439[20:00:39] <ratrace> i3's nice. I use that too
2440[20:00:55] <sney> zswap is not enabled by default in debian,
because it's not a universal performance boost; if you're
actually approaching your physical memory limit anyway, it
won't do you any good and may even slow some things down
2441[20:01:02] <omarek> One source claimed that SSDs wear out
faster if you have more space used, because SSDs juggle data around
to spread wear around. Is that still relevant?
2456[20:04:10] <wondiws> when I do apt-get upgrade on sid, almost
half of the packages will be held back, because they need extra
packages installed (or perhaps removed). When a new package need to
be installed there is for me no need to review it. Is there a
command or a flag to "upgrade" to also include those
updates that need a new package installed?
2457[20:04:12] <ratrace> the difference can be huge. I had an SSD
that behaved poorly and then I realized it's because I was
using it for testing and it was chock full (the firmware had no idea
there was a sector free). after I ran blkdiscard on it (the firmware
saw all the sectors free), performance shot up 3x
2458[20:04:14] *** Quits: Prints (~333@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2460[20:04:46] <sney> wondiws: you're probably looking for
'apt full-upgrade'. And please take sid questions to
#debian-next on OFTC (note, right now you are on freenode.)
2461[20:04:55] <ratrace> these days the SSDs are supposed to have
extra reserved space (invisible as free to the user) for that
purpose, but I always leave a few GB just in case
2462[20:05:05] <omarek> When I do buy a SSD, it's going to
be a M.2 with nvme. Because why go there halfway.
2464[20:05:21] <wondiws> sney, alright, well, I mentioned sid,
but my question isn't specific to sid...
2465[20:05:28] <omarek> I reached a point where I'm
upgrading my computer mostly due to RAM.
2466[20:05:28] <ratrace> (and with spinners I'd leave a few
GB free so I could replace with drives that claim same byte size but
actualyl differ in sectors)
2467[20:05:28] <wondiws> altough this happens more often on sid
ofcourse
2471[20:07:01] <ratrace> omarek: just a heads up, the 4.19 kernel
has some issues with some nvmes. not sure what exactly, not sure
which ones exactly, but after I bumped the kernel to backported one,
the issues resolved.
2472[20:07:17] <sney> wondiws: it's sufficiently specific to
sid. please go to the correct channel. support is just as good
there.
2473[20:07:26] <ratrace> it was about "usage" metric
and iowait, it reported 100% usage for trivial write ops, even
though it could reach declared IOPs and BW just fine
2474[20:07:37] <omarek> I'm still in the information
gathering phase.
2475[20:07:38] <wondiws> sney, alright, got it
2476[20:08:34] <ratrace> it's always good to have the
reasonably latest kernel (backports are fine). nothing to do with
shiny, and everything to do with lots of bugfixes that aren't
backported to LTS kernels
2477[20:08:36] <omarek> Is there some common way to make
autocomplete work for parameters ? For example 'git rev-parse
--show-toplevel'. I read that zsh does that by default.
2478[20:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1203
2479[20:10:01] <ratrace> I suppoes that's not shell
specifically but autocomplete written for specific shells
2482[20:12:18] <Ede|Popede> isn't this also in
/etc/autocomplete or whereever the files are?
2483[20:12:22] <sney> probably start with debian's
bash-completion and modify to suit your needs
2484[20:12:54] <KNERD> omarek: yeah NVMe is the way to go. I got
a laptop with Core i7 7th gen, but it's got an M.2 SATA and at
times it's still super slow
2485[20:13:24] <omarek> I happen to live in the only European
country which actually produces RAM.
2501[20:21:39] <Ede|Popede> ##hardware as a start maybe
2502[20:22:17] <sney> debian's hardware advice mostly boils
down to: 1) keep it simple; b) look up driver support before you
buy, particularly wrt wifi and graphics
2503[20:23:00] *** prnflks_ is now known as prnflks
2512[20:25:27] <sney> concerns with graphics hardware happen when
something is so bleeding-edge new that mainline linux hasn't
caught up yet, or if it's the intel+nvidia optimus kludge that
was never designed to work in anything but windows
2513[20:25:29] <KNERD> network and sound tends to have issue
2514[20:25:58] <ratrace> I fully support what sney said.
that's typically the vast majority of any gpu issues one will
have these days.
2516[20:26:17] <sney> sound is nowhere near as hairy as it once
was but there's no harm in checking. and just... avoid realtek
and broadcom and you'll *usually* be fine
2517[20:26:39] <omarek> I think I'm going to get a micro-ATX
motherboard (and case). I'm wondering what the biggest
drawbacks of mini-itx are. What does one want to have in PCI Express
anyway? Storage and GPU...
2518[20:27:13] <omarek> I want to have a sound card, but other
than that I think mini-itx can come with both PCI-E and an M.2 slot.
2519[20:27:35] <KNERD> mini-itx tends to have low powered CPUs
such as Celery and Atom
2520[20:27:58] <sney> mATX used to be limited to the
"cheap" section and as such wouldn't get all of the
bells and whistles of the full-size model, but it's been a
couple years so I'm not sure if that's still accurate
2521[20:28:08] <omarek> I think I read it tends to be up to TDP
65W.
2522[20:28:14] <sney> sometimes minimal is good anyway
2548[20:45:44] <sney> I have an atx case from around 2009,
it's black and has a matte silver front, and NO WINDOW, and
I'm keeping it as long as I can get away with it
2549[20:45:50] <mrkramps> ich want my red, green and yellow back
... i hate blue leds so much
2550[20:46:07] *** Quits: Christian75 (~Christian@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2552[20:46:42] <omarek> I have an old ATX case, but I don't
need such a big box. If I'm getting an mATX I want to get that
small portability benefit.
2553[20:47:07] <sney> my homie has a recording studio so he
needed a high end PC to run cubase and keep up with all of the i/o.
and of course this pc is a flashing neon monstrosity that cycles
colors every few seconds. v professional I tell ya
2577[20:55:46] <ratrace> it's "just" a tiling
margin. looks neat. I hate when stuff's crammed atop of each
other
2578[20:56:26] <omarek> ratrace: i3gaps bothers me because one of
reasons I got into i3 is to make better use of my display. I think
the desktop metaphor is a failure.
2579[20:56:54] <omarek> I think in the future most people will
use tiling managers, they just need to figure out more newbie
friendly window managers to go with it.
2580[20:57:04] <mrkramps> i like gaps, no use to argue about
personal preferences
2581[20:57:16] <ratrace> mrkramps: how dare you!
2582[20:57:28] <ratrace> j/k
2583[20:57:38] <omarek> I'm also annoyed by the fact many
applications hog the whole screen, like skype. They assume you have
no capability to efficiently switch apps or lay them out. So much
bloat.
2584[20:57:52] <ratrace> but really some things on r/unixporn are
really awesome
2585[20:58:08] <ratrace> once I was very tempted to go openbox
just to have that one theme I saw there
2586[20:58:37] <omarek> mrkramps: ratrace: I get that i3gaps has
some aesthetic appeal, but at the same time modern windowed
applications are obese when it comes to using screen space.
2587[20:58:54] <mrkramps> omarek, i said "gaps" _not_
"i3gaps"
2588[20:59:44] <omarek> ratrace: Yeah, spending some time to
improve aesthetics is nice.
2590[21:01:18] <omarek> For similiar reasons, I'm annoyed by
people who use 120 character lines and beyond. I'm a
programmer. If other programmers make very wide lines it's not
only less comfortable to read but also messes up my ability to have
2 or 3 windows side by side.
2591[21:01:58] <omarek> Newspapers have figured that out - having
a couple of text columns make it easier to read.
2592[21:01:58] <mrkramps> get a second monitor ;)
2593[21:02:41] <omarek> mrkramps: Yes that's a solution, but
you're solving the problem you've made yourself.
2594[21:04:12] <omarek> mrkramps: That's a nice metaphor
with show cars.
2618[21:23:59] <jhutchins> I'm a single full screen guy
myself, but this has wandered pretty far offtopic. There's
#debian-offtopic if you want to continue the thread.
2630[21:34:51] <MalaGaM> Hello, I am looking for a way to protect
my machine. I don't know how to do it. I would like a way to
prohibit the use of node.js/npm packages for all users, if that is
not possible. Forbid files with a checksum list / md5? or others ..
in this sense to ban specific files.
2631[21:35:43] *** Quits: Christian75 (~Christian@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2640[21:39:36] <dpkg> The Securing Debian Manual describes the
security of the Debian GNU/Linux operating system and within the
Debian project.
replaced-url
2643[21:40:07] <nkuttler> MalaGaM: as for forbidding stuff..
it's basically not possible. if you don't trust users,
don't give them an account
2644[21:41:19] <Gerowen> MalaGaM: There's a package called
"lshell" that allows you to restrict users' access to
certain commands. I haven't used it in a long time, and
I'm not sure if it could be made to do what you're asking,
but you might take a look at it just to see.
2653[21:49:20] <MalaGaM> nkuttler: And at the same time simple. I
want to ban NPM packages from being used. I imagine it's
complicated. This is why the second part directs my wish to ban
files with a list of md5sum.
2677[22:02:08] <Gerowen> I'm making a nautilus script and
have what feels like a stupid question. I'm just adding a right
click option to "shred" files. It works if the filename
has no spaces, but if the filename has spaces it doesn't work.
I've tried putting quotes around the variable name but that
makes it stop working on anything. I changed it to just print the
filename to a file and it's working regardless of whether the
filename has spaces, but if I try to actually run
2678[22:02:08] <Gerowen> "shred" on it and the filename
has spaces, it fails. I'm missing something silly here. Anybody
got any idea?
2702[22:31:52] <Aavar_> If I have two existing raid1 arrays. Is
it simple to combine them into a raid10 array?
2703[22:32:02] <f8e4> is it ok to make .dotfiles a symblink to my
dotrepo?
2704[22:32:04] <TheWizard> hi
2705[22:32:08] <f8e4> hi
2706[22:32:56] <ratrace> Aavar_: two existing? independently?
2707[22:33:07] <Aavar_> ratrace: yes.
2708[22:33:24] <TheWizard> please I have a problem with buster +
alsa + alc270: right speaker has got a very low volume. Checked
alsamixer, tried a live distro, but same issue... Thanks for help!
2709[22:33:30] <Aavar_> ratrace: one of them is empty if that
changes anything.
2710[22:34:00] <ratrace> Aavar_: so how do you imagne that to
work.... a raid10 serves a single filesystem. so, no, you'll
have to construct teh array from scratch, and break this one
2711[22:35:10] <Aavar_> ratrace: Is it possible to create a
raid10 array with just two disks, copy the files from the existing
raid1 and then add the two new drives to the raid10 array?
2712[22:35:50] <ratrace> Aavar_: in theory, you could use
'missing' for the missing drives. the two missing must be
in different mirror groups
2713[22:36:13] <Aavar_> Basically. I have an existing raid1 array
and I want to add two new drives to make it raid10.
2714[22:36:33] <ratrace> I am not aware of mdadm's ability
to grow a raid1 into 10 like that.
2715[22:36:37] *** Quits: Grldfrdom (uid391113@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2716[22:36:55] <ratrace> I am assuming you're talking about
mdadm, or else this ain't a debian problem really. well neither
is this, mdadm is not debian specific.
2719[22:40:21] <ratrace> Aavar_: unfortunately I think
you'll have to create the array from scratch, but if you break
the raid1 with data on it, you can keep one member as backup, while
you zero the superblock on the otehr and use it for raid10 with the
other two drives
2720[22:41:09] <ratrace> so you crate a raid10 with A, B, C and
'missing' where the missing one is a member of the data
raid1 you dismantled, then copy data to the new raid10 from it, zero
the superblock and reattach it into the new 10 md
2721[22:41:28] <sney> TheWizard: again, if you use headphones,
can you hear both channels normally?
2722[22:41:42] <ratrace> by "break" the data raid1, I
mean fail ONE device, and reuse it in 10, while this degraded
remains with data.
2723[22:42:00] <Aavar_> ratrace: Is it not better to have two
drives missing from the raid 10 array? if that is even possible.
2724[22:42:14] <ratrace> Aavar_: OF COURSE ... you will have
backups somewhere because, even though in theory it's doable
with zero loss, a tiny mistake can lead to data loss
2728[22:42:45] <Aavar_> ratrace: I do have offsite backups, but I
would rather not use them :)
2729[22:42:45] <ratrace> Aavar_: why? you have 4 disks, right?
one data raid1, and one "empty" raid1. break up teh data
raid1 by failing one drive, so you have 3 drives for your new raid10
2730[22:43:08] <ratrace> what's the point of two missing
when you don't really need that?
2731[22:43:23] <Aavar_> ratrace: My thinking is that I have at
least two drives with the data at all times. Right?
2732[22:44:09] <ratrace> well I suppose that would work
2733[22:46:28] *** Quits: asymptotically (~asymptoti@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2734[22:46:40] <Aavar_> ratrace: As I don't 100% fully
understand how raid works. Is it more secure to use two single raid
1 arrays that one raid10?
2739[22:48:32] <sney> TheWizard: ok, you have a hardware problem.
It's probably the speaker itself, or whatever tiny crossover is
built in to your laptop.
2740[22:48:35] <ratrace> Aavar_: and that logic here applies to
mdadm. a btrfs raid10 for example, does not have that level of
tolerance
2741[22:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1195
2742[22:49:28] <ratrace> Aavar_: also with two independent raid1,
you'll need a volume manager to bind them into a single
filesystem.
2743[22:49:29] <Aavar_> I think maybe I'll stick with the
two arrays then... as this is a personal server I don't need
the drama in my life right now :) Thank you for great answers.
2744[22:50:11] <TheWizard> sney: very strange indeed
2777[23:24:35] <f8e4> jhutchins ok: how to fiddle with lvm shrink
p1 and swap 1g grow forward by 7 to 8gb ?
2778[23:24:41] <jhutchins> f8e4: Besides, if you have a file
that's the same size as your partition, what's the point?
2779[23:24:55] <jolt> swap is used instead of memory, any
additional latency is worsen the response, so having it on a
partition introduces less latency than a file. But it works though
2780[23:25:14] <f8e4> better than my stuff crashing
2781[23:25:58] <f8e4> y think its ok to doctor in lvm p1 p2_swap
around shrink/grow either
2784[23:26:30] <aminvakil> f8e4: also keep in mind that linux
swaps when something is in its cache, but it may not be important,
so don't just rely on top and free to see if there is anything
on swap
2785[23:26:48] <jolt> f8e4: you don't need to, but it makes
it so much more easier if you aren't used to doing it.
2786[23:26:57] <jhutchins> f8e4: Since you have to back up the
partition first anyway, I just edit the partition and restore. Safer
& more reliable. You can find plenty of docs on how to grow an
LVM volume on the web though. I haven't done it in months, but
basically you create a PV on the partition, add it to a VG, and then
grow the LV.