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• 15[00:06:34] <quitte> Hi. I'm looking for a throwaway Certificate authority for testing. Sure I could self sign, but I'd prefer to have a third party signature just in case it does make a difference.
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• 18[00:07:54] <mutante> quitte: letsencrypt.org ?
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• 26[00:12:36] <quitte> mutante: they need me to have control of a domain
• 27[00:13:10] <b30wulf> replaced-url
• 28[00:13:18] <quitte> mutante: cacert is closer but they are annoying. Want me to come up with 5 questioin/answr pairs. and I don't know yet what happens next
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• 31[00:14:19] <b30wulf> letsencrypt is the only viable option i know of unless u are willing to pay 60 bucks for verisign or what have u
• 32[00:14:42] <SerajewelKS> wait so you want a trusted CA to sign a cert for a domain you can't prove control over
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• 35[00:14:59] <b30wulf> heh
• 36[00:15:08] <quitte> no. it doesn't have to be trusted. just a third party instead of self signed.
• 37[00:15:28] <SerajewelKS> ... why a third party?
• 38[00:15:29] <b30wulf> they dont certify LAN IP addresses
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• 40[00:15:39] <b30wulf> jejeje
• 41[00:15:43] <quitte> it's not for a domain but for boot code signing
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• 43[00:16:12] <SerajewelKS> ok so create a CA certificate yourself, then issue a cert with it?
• 44[00:16:50] <quitte> SerajewelKS: encryption is confusing enough as it is. i know i could self sign but i'd prefer to follow the process as close as possible to a real world implementation to avoid suriprises
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• 46[00:17:24] <quitte> SerajewelKS: coming up with 5 q/a pairs for cacert.org sounds a lot easier than becoming a ca
• 47[00:17:34] <b30wulf> using a certificate authority is more complex than self-signing
• 48[00:17:35] <abrotman> quitte: then you'd have to create your own CA, and sign as that CA (it isn't a real CA)
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• 50[00:17:58] <SerajewelKS> quitte: cacert is also not going to issue a cert when you can't prove ownership of the CN
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• 52[00:18:12] <abrotman> quitte: also, you could ask #openssl
• 53[00:18:22] <quitte> SerajewelKS: thanks. that probably saves a lot of time
• 54[00:18:23] <SerajewelKS> quitte: also you could just install tinyca and be done
• 55[00:18:37] <quitte> abrotman: thanks
• 56[00:18:49] * abrotman would just self-sign
• 57[00:18:49] <quitte> okay will look at tinyca
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• 59[00:19:24] <quitte> abrotman: you are probably right. it's just the kind of thing i very much expected to already exist
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• 62[00:20:07] <abrotman> quitte: If you're going to lie to your browser, does it matter which type of lie it is? :)
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• 64[00:20:59] <quitte> abrotman: no browser involved. just the NXP code signing tool.
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• 68[00:22:38] <abrotman> oh ok
• 69[00:22:39] <SerajewelKS> i remember when i used to think code signing meant "insuring code integrity" and not "someone is trying to keep me from doing what i want with my own hardware"
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• 74[00:24:32] <mutante> quitte: oh, you reminded me. i used cacert a long time ago and had assurer points, yea
• 75[00:24:42] <mutante> didnt know about the 5 questions
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• 81[00:26:28] <quitte> SerajewelKS: high assurance boot on my target hardware is already broken Just doing it since as it turns out it's a great way to get to know what the thing can do and how it does it
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• 83[00:26:30] <LovinLinux> what is the best way to install firefox quantum on stretch?
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• 85[00:27:04] <LovinLinux> All the sites I find seem to have fairly janky workarounds...
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• 88[00:27:36] <bites> you install the firefox-esr package.
• 89[00:27:51] <abrotman> I don't tihnk there's a Debian way to get a newer FF in Stretch
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• 92[00:27:57] <abrotman> judd: versions firefox-esr
• 93[00:27:58] <judd> Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie-backports/firefox-release: 52.1.0esr-1~bpo80+1; wheezy-security: 52.8.0esr-1~deb7u1; jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; jessie-security: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch: 60.3.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 60.3.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 60.3.0esr-1; sid: 60.3.0esr-2
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• 95[00:28:08] <abrotman> oh, or there's that
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• 97[00:28:37] <abrotman> I didn' tthink they'd backported 60 yet
• 98[00:28:44] <abrotman> or upgraded, or whatever they want to call it
• 99[00:29:36] <LovinLinux> ah crp. oh well, i guess it wasnt just my poor search skills.
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• 101[00:30:30] <bites> 52 esr had it's eol a few months ago, then they bumped it.
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• 104[00:31:08] <quitte> hmm. let me try a similar question: how do I install eclipse photon on sid?
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• 112[00:34:34] <bites> eclipse isn't a very well maintained package on debian. so probably follow the upstream installation instructions for linux.
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• 114[00:34:44] <abrotman> I think the packages are dead
• 115[00:34:48] <abrotman> or mostly so
• 116[00:34:53] <bites> looks like it.
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• 118[00:35:40] <quitte> I haven't seen current eclipse in years but occassionally there were updates
• 119[00:35:52] <quitte> that being said debian eclipse packages were great
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• 121[00:36:24] <abrotman> Subjective!
• 122[00:36:31] <quitte> with photon for example tool tips pop up somewhere unrelated to the curretn curso position.
• 123[00:36:36] <quitte> oh no.
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• 167[01:05:34] <quitte> crypto is enfuriating. All I want is a key or a key pair. How daoes all the other crap even matter? (except maybe timeout and revocation stuff)
• 168[01:05:51] <quitte> location? organization? department?...
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• 174[01:08:53] <abrotman> you don't have to fill alll those out
• 175[01:09:14] *** Quits: rocketmagnet (~rocketmag@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 176[01:10:11] <quitte> abrotman: I guess. still this should be accessible. We want evrybody to use it.
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• 178[01:10:46] <quitte> And now the hba script forces me to figure out what openssl.cnf must contain
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• 198[01:25:26] <quitte> so it's x.509. understandable. What I don't understand is that the structure of a x.509 certificate as described on german wikipedia doesn't even contain a key.
• 199[01:25:35] <quitte> infuriating.
• 200[01:25:45] <quitte> see you guys
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• 217[01:37:39] <eht> Can anyone give some insight into the following error message when adding a user like '4xvk' to the system? replaced-url
• 218[01:39:43] <eht> More or less I'm curious if bypassing the error and --force-badname actually causes a security issue, or if it has other reasoning behind it.
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• 229[01:53:58] <BCMM> eht: all-numeric usernames are bad, because there are utilities which take a username or a uid, and just work out which they've been given from whether it's alpha or not
• 230[01:54:16] <BCMM> eht: i'm not 100% clear on why first-character numbers aren't allowed; it may just be to make that check easier
• 231[01:54:46] <BCMM> i.e. a utility doesn't have to read the whole thing in to a string, figure out which it is, and *then* convert that string to a number
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• 234[01:56:01] <scatterbrainz> anyone know a really good FREE vpn that works with debian?
• 235[01:56:04] <joepublic> imo any utility that parses "4xvk" to be a uid is broken
• 236[01:57:06] <scatterbrainz> hey Joe
• 237[01:57:09] <scatterbrainz> how goes ?
• 238[01:57:21] <joepublic> well; very well. thank you
• 239[01:59:16] <eht> Interesting, thanks for the insight BCMM. Now I'm curious which applications would actually have a problem with it... without any diggging around I have to initially agree with joepublic... seems like a strange limitation
• 240[01:59:53] <BCMM> eht: with which? chown would misbehave with an all-numeric UID, for example
• 241[02:00:05] <BCMM> sorry
• 242[02:00:10] <BCMM> all-numeric username, of course
• 243[02:00:36] <joepublic> but then 4xvk isn't all-numeric
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• 248[02:02:03] <scatterbrainz> i'm getting confused on what debian has built in or accessible via apt-get, security, and what i'm reading on forums
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• 251[02:02:43] <petn-randall> scatterbrainz: If you ask actual questions, we might help you clear up the confusion.
• 252[02:03:01] <spectie> hey all!
• 253[02:03:18] <spectie> is this the right channel for help installing debian ?
• 254[02:03:20] <spectie> or is there a
• 255[02:03:24] <spectie> #debian-user or something
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• 258[02:03:39] <petn-randall> spectie: It's on-topic here, so go ahead. :)
• 259[02:03:45] <spectie> cool!
• 260[02:04:06] <spectie> i'm trying to get debian onto a second hand macbook pro that i just brough
• 261[02:04:07] <spectie> t
• 262[02:04:14] <spectie> but am having problems with the wireless driver
• 263[02:04:22] <petn-randall> !firmware images
• 264[02:04:22] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See replaced-url
• 265[02:04:28] <spectie> i downloaded the netinst with extra firmware
• 266[02:04:30] <spectie> :)
• 267[02:04:31] <petn-randall> spectie: It's likely due to missing firmware. ^^^
• 268[02:04:36] <petn-randall> Ah, nice :)
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• 270[02:04:46] <spectie> but it seems that the card isn't supported
• 271[02:05:14] <spectie> it's a Broadcom BCM4360 // Card Type: AirPort Extreme (0x14E4, 0x112)
• 272[02:05:34] <spectie> when i try to load the driver i get "FOUND UNSUPPORTED PHY (Analog 12, Type 11)@
• 273[02:05:48] <petn-randall> spectie: replaced-url
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• 275[02:06:01] <scatterbrainz> ok: I made a post on tomshardware -> and some fella was kinda enough to response: he said -> my plant to host is over a VPN with DDNS on top of that I'll need a VPN client, then I'll have to do a ll the scripts, and the poster indicated its all very time consuming, however: i'm reading there's DNS adjustments in Debian, a network manager, and 3rd party VPN availabiliity like VPNBook..... so I'm just wonder
• 276[02:06:01] <scatterbrainz> ing just how big of a scope am I looking at?
• 277[02:06:02] <spectie> i've googled quite a bit
• 278[02:06:12] <petn-randall> Try finding your model there, and you'll probably find hints how to install it.
• 279[02:06:15] <spectie> (been working on this for about 2 hours now)
• 280[02:06:49] <BCMM> spectie: looks like that needs the broadcom-sta-dkms package (from non-free)
• 281[02:06:53] <spectie> so i can't find this 0x112 listed anywhere
• 282[02:07:02] <spectie> BCMM: will that be in the firmware-netinst image ?
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• 284[02:07:19] <spectie> because if so i tried that
• 285[02:07:29] <BCMM> spectie: i think it literally just has extra firmware for things with open drivers, but i'm not sure
• 286[02:07:42] <spectie> and if not, is there a netinst installer that comes with broadcom-sta-dkms
• 287[02:07:43] <spectie> ?
• 288[02:07:45] <spectie> aah
• 289[02:07:46] <spectie> ok
• 290[02:07:55] <BCMM> spectie: do you have some other network interface you can use for the installation?
• 291[02:07:59] <spectie> no, unfortunately
• 292[02:08:11] <BCMM> spectie: an android phone perhaps?
• 293[02:08:17] <spectie> i have an android phone
• 294[02:08:24] <BCMM> you can use usb tethering to get wifi on the laptop :)
• 295[02:08:32] <spectie> but i can't connect to wifi with that right?
• 296[02:08:33] <spectie> oh!
• 297[02:08:39] <spectie> that sounds cool
• 298[02:09:05] <BCMM> i mean there's probably a way to get this working with the actual installer, but it might be easier to just do the installation and then install broadcom-sta-dkms
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• 300[02:09:40] <spectie> yeah, i'd be happy with that solution
• 301[02:09:49] <spectie> i've never used my phone as a tether before
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• 304[02:10:11] <spectie> let me try it !
• 305[02:10:25] <spectie> thanks for your help, hopefully i will be back soon from debian! :D
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• 309[02:12:46] <BCMM> spectie: just be careful that you're actually tethering through wifi, not potentially-expensive cellular!
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• 392[03:25:00] <awal1> I would like exclude 'libs' from being listed when searching with apt/apt-cache/aptitude
• 393[03:25:06] <awal1> how?
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• 402[03:33:04] <spectie> ok, i got debian on :D
• 403[03:33:12] <spectie> now trying to set up this broadcom thing
• 404[03:33:17] <Borntuft> Hey guys, I'm working on my first package that Im hoping will be added to being Sid
• 405[03:33:51] <dvs> !dm
• 406[03:33:51] <dpkg> DM means Display Manager, the app that brings up a graphical login screen and starts your login session. <lightdm>, <gdm3>, <xdm>, <kdm>, <wdm>, pdm, login.app and <slim> are all examples of display managers. Ask me about <nodm> if you want to disable the DM. Or Debian Maintainer: replaced-url
• 407[03:33:55] <dvs> oops
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• 417[03:41:43] <bltzfsck> what's the best beer for debian?
• 418[03:42:06] <annadane> Borntuft, very cool. if you need help, you can check out #debian-mentors on irc.oftc.net
• 419[03:42:17] <annadane> also the lintian package
• 420[03:42:56] <Borntuft> annadane, I may just do that. I'm trying to get the package to work first and have it cleaned up before I approach a mentor. Nothing worse than a promise to create and nothing materializes
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• 423[03:44:31] <Borntuft> The package used to be in debian stable, however it stopped being maintained back in 2015
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• 427[03:46:27] <annadane> what is it, out of interest?
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• 430[03:48:48] <Borntuft> Unetbootin
• 431[03:49:03] <Borntuft> Its a tool that lets you download isos and make live usbs
• 432[03:49:16] <annadane> which also breaks debian :P
• 433[03:49:21] <annadane> !unetbootin
• 434[03:49:21] <dpkg> UNetbootin (Universal Netboot Installer) allows creation of bootable USB drives for a variety of Linux distributions. replaced-url
• 435[03:49:28] <annadane> but oh well
• 436[03:49:40] <Borntuft> Breaks?
• 437[03:49:55] <Borntuft> Is that why its no longer in the system
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• 439[03:50:03] <annadane> no, i don't know why it's not
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• 443[03:51:56] <annadane> it doesn't break an existing system i just mean sometimes people using it to write debian to an install medium can have their image mangled
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• 445[03:53:56] <Borntuft> i used it often to download parted magic os and other recovery OSs to a bootable USB
• 446[03:54:07] <Borntuft> not so much for debian
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• 491[04:41:44] <annadane> how do you restart pulseaudio? just systemctl restart pulseaudio?
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• 493[04:43:25] <annadane> i think i have to just kill it, i don't think it's recognized as a service
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• 495[04:43:34] <karlpinc> annadane: The README.Debian says that it's a per-user daemon, so in theory you could do something from your login.
• 496[04:43:54] <karlpinc> annadane: Just saying. That's all I know.
• 497[04:43:58] <annadane> right
• 498[04:44:24] <karlpinc> annadane: It does show up in my "systemctl status".
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• 504[04:49:27] <annadane> Failed to restart pulseaudio.service: Unit pulseaudio.service not found.
• 505[04:49:39] <annadane> anyway, as my regular user i just did pulseaudio --kill
• 506[04:49:57] <annadane> i assume that makes it take on the changes i added to /etc/pulse/daemon.conf
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• 520[05:05:26] <awal1> annadane, pulse have no restart argument as i know. just kill it and start it again
• 521[05:05:48] <awal1> pulseaudio --kill then pulseaudio --start
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• 523[05:06:41] <annadane> i had always kinda assumed i didn't need --start
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• 525[05:06:49] <annadane> and it'd start on its own when audio played, or something
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• 529[05:09:03] <awal1> it is autostarted by it systemd unit service, you don't need to start it manually
• 530[05:09:14] <awal1> if you use default, ofcourse
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• 545[05:36:00] <rant> idk about using --kill but using killall pulseaudio has always auto restarted it for me
• 546[05:36:15] <rant> deliberately telling it to kill itself may have different behavior
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• 548[05:37:28] <rant> fwiw though thats the method I use to restart it, just a killall pulseaudio
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• 553[05:40:20] <SerajewelKS> pulseaudio --kill does basically the same thing
• 554[05:40:42] <SerajewelKS> it appears to restart itself because the default client behavior is to start a server if there isn't one, so the next time something tries to play audio with pulse, the server comes back
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• 556[05:42:20] <rant> hmm I didnt know it did that
• 557[05:43:28] <rant> idk but the more I type on this damn laptop the more I hate this clickpad and find new reasons to.. I keep doing something that makes it switch workspaces and idk what it even is I'm doing
• 558[05:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1407
• 559[05:44:07] <rant> I wish I could just disable it and have mouse buttons to use the trackpoint..
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• 562[05:45:12] <rant> I only ever use it at all because it effectively renders the trackpoint unusable cause its so damn touchy when I reach for the trackpoint I wind up doing something I never knew a touchpad could do
• 563[05:45:57] <rant> though it has caused me to learn several new things, like that middle clicking on most taskbars closes a window
• 564[05:46:38] <rant> not really the way you wanna learn stuff though.. through aggrivation of accidental disasters :P
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• 573[05:58:28] <annadane> i wonder if you can run two pulseaudio daemons if you pulseaudio --kill then play some sound so it starts itself and then pulseaudio --start
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• 598[06:15:42] <Sveta> rant you can disable the clickpad
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• 647[07:03:04] <acu> !cloud-init
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• 738[08:23:38] <Ede|Popede> if i need the full path for a program to be user as a parameter, the easiest thing to do is to use $(which gobbledygook). and if i'm lazy or don't know the exact spelling i tab. only, depending of the command used this will insert a NL and trying to execute the incomplete command
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• 740[08:24:31] <Ede|Popede> works with type and date (even if it makes no sense here), but file breaks. is this because of different implementation of tab completion for the commands or why this inconsistency?
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• 753[08:33:34] <Wulf> Good Morning! What exactly are those point releases (e.g. 9.6)? Is that only an announcement plus updated cd images?
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• 755[08:34:00] <Wulf> Is there any difference between installing from an updated image versus updating an older installation through apt?
• 756[08:34:01] <rudi_s> Wulf: Plus updated packages on the mirrors.
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• 758[08:34:08] <rudi_s> No difference.
• 759[08:35:00] <Wulf> rudi_s: then why do they exist? To speed up installations a bit (need to upgrade fewer packages)?
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• 761[08:35:31] <rudi_s> Wulf: So that people get the latest updates and fixes for the installation. Sometimes the updates fix hardware compatibility or security updates.
• 762[08:35:32] <jelly> Wulf: yes. Also, bugs in the installer itself can be fixed, and kernel may support more hardware
• 763[08:35:59] <rudi_s> And the updates packages are also only released with the point release.
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• 770[08:37:46] <jelly> Wulf: also helpful for installations that do not have access to a mirror, eg. those not connected to internet
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• 776[08:41:25] <Wulf> thanks so far!
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• 783[08:43:33] <Wulf> Say I wanted to create a mirror for Debian 9.4, is that even possible? I don't see any release files for this on the mirrors.
• 784[08:44:46] <jelly> !snapshots
• 785[08:44:47] <dpkg> replaced-url
• 786[08:45:04] <jelly> Wulf: but why would you need that
• 787[08:45:32] <Wulf> jelly: new job. I'm trying to figure out why *they* want it and if it's possible and if it makes any sense.
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• 789[08:46:09] <jelly> if they also want the systems in questions patched regularly, it makes little sense
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• 791[08:46:17] <Wulf> jelly: I keep forgetting about that snapshot server, thanks :)
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• 793[08:46:41] <jelly> if they want them stuck in time, then there might be an underlying reason
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• 795[08:47:00] <Wulf> stability I guess
• 796[08:47:05] <jelly> ask.
• 797[08:47:16] <jelly> don't guess
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• 799[08:47:51] <Wulf> Of course I will.
• 800[08:48:05] <Wulf> But still I had to understand those point releases
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• 814[08:57:24] <Ede|Popede> By default man sets the -ix8 options. <--- what? the manpage for less doesn't mention -ix8, or even -8
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• 816[08:57:54] <Ede|Popede> so how does the man program convince less not to destroy the content of the terminal?
• 817[08:57:54] <Wulf> Ede|Popede: might be the options are passed on the another tool
• 818[08:58:09] <Ede|Popede> Wulf: same for man. no -8 here
• 819[08:58:35] <Wulf> Ede|Popede: quick+dirty way is to use strace to find out
• 820[08:58:37] <Ede|Popede> only has -7 (clear ascii), so -8 may(!) be 8 bit. but not mentioned
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• 826[08:58:57] <Ede|Popede> i think i never used this thing
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• 828[09:00:52] <noln> it's equivalent to -i -xn where -x is documented
• 829[09:01:38] <noln> like ls -la is like ls -l -a
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• 834[09:03:16] <Ede|Popede> -x is documented, but no -7
• 835[09:03:18] <Ede|Popede> -8
• 836[09:04:02] <Ede|Popede> aha. so it is an option with a parameter?
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• 841[09:05:41] <Ede|Popede> -xn,... or --tabs=n,... // Sets tab stops. If only one n is specified, tab stops are set at multiples of n.
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• 843[09:06:14] <Ede|Popede> in the text n is underlined, which is the correct way to use it. variable "n" is NOT the option letter "n"
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• 850[09:09:31] <jelly> Ede|Popede: what do you mean by "destroy contents of the terminal"?
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• 852[09:10:12] <Ede|Popede> jelly: man uses less, systemctl uses less. after man i have my content back, but not after systemctl
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• 855[09:10:38] <Ede|Popede> and i find no option for less wich does this. are there secret options for oss tools?
• 856[09:10:58] <jelly> Ede|Popede: and you... want that?
• 857[09:11:13] <Ede|Popede> sure i want that
• 858[09:11:52] <Ede|Popede> if i scroll back and only find pieces from former output why should i use this option?
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• 861[09:12:35] <Ede|Popede> '$PROMPT man less' and right below it "$PROMPT *blink*" after i press 'q' in man
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• 867[09:13:34] <jelly> Ede|Popede: -X prevents it. It's possible systemctl is hardcoded to give less -X option, either by adding it to LESS env. var or via command line
• 868[09:13:47] <Ede|Popede> all i see is '-dumb' but it states that it does... ah
• 869[09:14:13] <jelly> me, I hate when less exits and the thing I was just reading disappears
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• 873[09:16:25] <jelly> and indeed, systemctl(1) says: $SYSTEMD_LESS Override the options passed to less (by default "FRSXMK").
• 874[09:16:40] <jelly> that includes -X
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• 877[09:16:54] <Ede|Popede> i keep it open as long as i need it, shouldn't there bee a hook to tell the calling program to pass an extra option to less? it uses it anyway
• 878[09:17:14] <Ede|Popede> ah, $LESS rihjt
• 879[09:18:11] <Fox> man -R test
• 880[09:18:14] <Fox> oops
• 881[09:18:28] <Ede|Popede> great. hardcoded defaults you can't switch of in the command line
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• 883[09:19:33] <Ede|Popede> set | grep LESS gives me nothing btw, so it must be some systemwide setting or really hardcoded Oo
• 884[09:20:08] <jelly> the man page pretty much it's hardcoded in no uncertain terms
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• 887[09:20:33] <jelly> what else would "by default" mean
• 888[09:20:52] <Ticho_> Ede|Popede: what about "alias"? shell aliases aren't included in output of "set", as far as I know
• 889[09:21:10] <Ede|Popede> is there a reason for all these envvars instead of using config files? may be because i started with DOS and you may now the size of its environment...
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• 891[09:21:26] <Ede|Popede> Ticho_: nothing
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• 893[09:21:51] <jelly> Ede|Popede: because they're easier and there's no reason for commonly used tools to go open files needlessly?
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• 895[09:22:45] <jelly> and you can customize things even on systems where you don't want to, or cannot write config files
• 896[09:22:47] <Ede|Popede> would be nice to have them sorted or grouped somehow though. i don't think *any* shell offers this
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• 898[09:22:54] <jelly> what
• 899[09:23:07] <jelly> env|sort
• 900[09:23:20] <jelly> there, all sorted
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• 903[09:24:12] <Ede|Popede> hm. vaild point. always used `set` and this brings up EVERYTHING
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• 905[09:24:33] <Ticho_> what problem are we solving here with less, by the way?
• 906[09:24:49] <jelly> restoring previous terminal contents
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• 908[09:24:55] <jelly> after it exits
• 909[09:25:13] <Ticho_> ah, so it doesn't do that on Ede|Popede's system?
• 910[09:25:28] <jelly> it does not do that when called by systemctl
• 911[09:25:49] <Ticho_> but it does when calling less directly?
• 912[09:25:59] <Ede|Popede> i remember when i installed pyenv or what it was shortly before i wiped the old system. created a config dir with lots of scripts inside it at the first login (recreating them later when i deleted it), and doubling the size of the `set` output. tons of new functions.
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• 915[09:26:26] <Ede|Popede> Ticho_: it does with man, but not with systemctl
• 916[09:26:54] <Ticho_> do you have SYSTEMD_PAGER environment variable set?
• 917[09:27:07] <Ede|Popede> and i gave up understanding that terminal control stuff years ago
• 918[09:27:20] <Ede|Popede> Ticho_: nope
• 919[09:27:32] <Ticho_> also SYSTEMD_LESS, which contains options to use when calling less
• 920[09:28:09] <Ede|Popede> > systemctl --no-pager | less
• 921[09:28:19] <Ticho_> try "export SYSTEMD_LESS=FRSMK" (that sets SYSTEMD_LESS to default value, without X
• 922[09:28:22] <Ede|Popede> simple. works. unixish.
• 923[09:28:45] <Ticho_> systemctl uses SYSTEMD_PAGER and SYSTEMD_LESS variables to construct the less syntax being called
• 924[09:28:56] <jelly> Ede|Popede: I am somehow not surprised systemd hardcodes random less settings, at all.
• 925[09:29:02] <Ticho_> these vars are probably set in systemd's environment, but not in your interactive shell's
• 926[09:29:10] <Ede|Popede> i'll put it into my startup (after i fond out again, which one would be the best)
• 927[09:29:38] <jelly> I've had this for... decades, probably:
• 928[09:29:38] <fboender> "SYSTEMD_LESS". Oh, systemd... O_o
• 929[09:29:40] <jelly> export LESS='-e -X -M -PM--Less--?f(?eEND:%pB\%.) %f?m (%i/%m)., ln %lt/%L chr %bB? B/%B.:(?eEND?L, line %L.:?pB%pB\%, .line %lt?L/%L..)%t.'
• 930[09:29:47] <Ede|Popede> O.M.G.
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• 933[09:30:08] <Ede|Popede> last time i've seen such a thing was in screen. status line.
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• 935[09:30:52] <Ticho_> :)
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• 938[09:31:36] <Ede|Popede> what i am wondering: there is an option to turn it *on* in the called programm, and the caller does exactly this by default. a trapdoor.
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• 942[09:32:24] <Ticho_> that's what they call a design decision :)
• 943[09:32:30] <Ede|Popede> oh btw. less in screen. same thing. but this time no exceptions. and midnight commander in screen, well... not even things like `TERM=xterm-256color` helps
• 944[09:32:59] <Ede|Popede> that's why designer have such a bad reputation :)
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• 947[09:33:29] <Ede|Popede> "look, ma. it's got round corners."
• 948[09:33:45] <Ticho_> stop holding it wrong :)
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• 950[09:34:28] <Ede|Popede> form follows functions. worked even before people had computers in their homes.
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• 953[09:38:01] <Ede|Popede> i have a nice samsung monitor here. when lit by the sun then the board shines trough the frame, which is held in bordeaux or so. with a nice oval foot. has something of a noble wine glass. very pleasant to the eye. really, i like it. only it misses that ISO thing on it's back to mount it on the wall. a functionality i didn't think of when i bought it. but: a good job by the designer.
• 954[09:38:25] <jelly> Ede|Popede: screen intentionally cripples exposed terminal functionality inside it, if you want screen -a, use screen -a
• 955[09:39:22] <jelly> Ede|Popede: the intent, I guess, was for screen to be useful if you access the same session from wildly different terminals
• 956[09:39:26] <Ede|Popede> oh. that's really what i may want. thank you for the obvious i could have seen a long time before, jelly :)
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• 958[09:40:07] <Ede|Popede> i tried setting the TERM in its command line, in the config, in the subshells, everywhere.
• 959[09:40:28] <jelly> best not do that inside screen
• 960[09:40:52] <jelly> outside, it probably should match the actual terminal
• 961[09:40:58] <jelly> or terminal emulator
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• 965[09:43:28] <Ede|Popede> most things work. 256 colors, subshell, function keys. only repainting is still broken sometimes. like the line with the item name in mc near the bottom, or subshell saving. back to mc, back again to the subshell, content gone. but by far better than before
• 966[09:43:52] <Ede|Popede> <<< xterm user since invention of the wheel ;)
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• 969[09:44:37] <Ede|Popede> tried some terminals in the beginning (u)rxvt and dunno what, later those from the DEs, they all had something which didn't let me do my workflow
• 970[09:45:46] <Ede|Popede> and even with what bash has and command.com did *not* have (and that's pretty everything) is still prefer a two-pane file manager
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• 979[09:50:56] <Ede|Popede> any idea what a good channel would be for questions on ncurses?
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• 982[09:51:52] <no_gravity> Good Morning
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• 986[09:52:50] <no_gravity> I wonder if it is possible to split the screen into multiple screens. I want to create two regions. So when I work in one region, windows open only in that region and when I move them around, they cannot overflow it. Any ideas if this is possible?
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• 990[09:55:26] <Ede|Popede> no_gravity: with a tiling window manager maybe. replaced-url
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• 992[09:56:08] <Ede|Popede> though no idea if it can nest containers, i only tested it for a short time
• 993[09:56:31] <no_gravity> Ede|Popede: Maybe. But I would like to stay with Gnome 2.
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• 996[09:58:10] <Ede|Popede> no_gravity: you'd only have to use another wm. should be all i guess. but if you want to keep gnome-wm sure it isn't an option
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• 1000[09:59:40] <Ede|Popede> multiple desktops aren't an option? as long you don't want to keep something else in your sight it would be quite the same.
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• 1006[10:02:04] <no_gravity> Ede|Popede: I want to use the upper part of my screen only for icons on the desktop. And the lower part for windows.
• 1007[10:02:04] <n4dir> was wondering the same, why not simply use "desktops"
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• 1010[10:02:36] <no_gravity> It would also be nice if I could move windows into the upper part if I feel like.
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• 1012[10:03:13] <no_gravity> But moving a window in the lower part should behave like the lower part is the whole screen. It should not easily flow into the upper part.
• 1013[10:03:24] <no_gravity> And opening a new window should always happen in the lower part.
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• 1015[10:03:58] <Ede|Popede> that really sounds like a job for a tiling wm to me. but maybe there's a workaround....
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• 1018[10:04:22] <bezaban> some physcial screens allow splitting the surface into multiple inputs
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• 1022[10:04:33] <bezaban> which is a workaround, but not in software
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• 1024[10:04:47] <no_gravity> Ede|Popede: A tiling wm would not do that job. It would not have one of the tiles act like a Gnome desktop.
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• 1030[10:06:17] <Ede|Popede> no_gravity: found a solution which works at least in xfce
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• 1032[10:06:29] <Ticho_> there's always Xnest :)
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• 1034[10:06:55] <Ede|Popede> set upper margin and the icons do stay there. windows will ignore that area when maximized, but dragable into it
• 1035[10:07:03] <no_gravity> Ticho_: Does that work well?
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• 1037[10:07:40] <no_gravity> Ede|Popede: That sounds interesting. A margin? That is unusual. What is it usually used for?
• 1038[10:08:07] <Ede|Popede> Ticho_: isn't Xephyr the thing of the day? i've read something that made me installing it instead of XNest
• 1039[10:08:13] <no_gravity> Ede|Popede: Do new windows never go into that area? That they are draggable into that area is a problem.
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• 1042[10:08:38] <Ede|Popede> no_gravity: j guess to keep areas of the desktop windowfree. i usually use it for conky
• 1043[10:08:41] <n4dir> Ede|Popede: some say this way, some the other. (not kidding here, always someone complains the other solution s the better one)
• 1044[10:08:58] <Ticho_> Ede|Popede: no idea, xnest has always been good enough for me
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• 1046[10:09:22] <Ede|Popede> n4dir: iirc it was something about some things not being passed through, like sound or whatever
• 1047[10:09:24] <n4dir> yup, same here, for the little i do it probably doesn't matter.
• 1048[10:09:53] <n4dir> Ede|Popede: yeah, i heard it too, i think. I am happy if it works at all (and i really do it seldom)
• 1049[10:10:10] <Ede|Popede> the reason why i installed it was my lacking ability to start a 2nd X for another user as testbed
• 1050[10:10:15] <no_gravity> Putting a giant panel on top of the screen is another solution.
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• 1052[10:11:00] <no_gravity> It seems to be limited to 320px height though.
• 1053[10:11:12] <Ede|Popede> no_gravity: my panel uses only a part of the width, i wasn't able to drag the icons into the unused area. may be different with gnome-wm
• 1054[10:11:26] <Ticho_> no_gravity: wasting screen real estate for desktop icons seems rather wasteful to me - icons belong to hideable launchers, desktop space should be for running applications
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• 1058[10:12:02] <n4dir> ^^ i think so too (at least for my approach, not saying everyone should do it like that)
• 1059[10:12:08] <Ede|Popede> i'm curious: who started this? apple or microsoft?
• 1060[10:13:10] <n4dir> these days i use nothing (panel, desktop-icons, whatever). The screen is empty. I start apps with command prompt in full size. For me it's good.
• 1061[10:13:33] <Ede|Popede> there may be a good reason not putting these icons into some menu thing: optical ordering. what i do myself sometimes, when i am about to do something about files. but not on a regular basis though.
• 1062[10:13:35] <no_gravity> Ticho_: I want to do it because I want to test if my eyes are more relaxed when I only use the lower part of my screen.
• 1063[10:13:58] <no_gravity> Having icons in the 'unusable' area would just be a nice to have.
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• 1065[10:14:38] <Ede|Popede> no_gravity: can't you simply have your monitor at a bigger distance? i suppose this is about the view angle?
• 1066[10:14:44] <Ticho_> but if you have icons (or anything else) in the 'unusable' area, your eyes would still be 'using' it
• 1067[10:15:03] <ikarosuusi> HEllo I have problem installing gcc-4.8
• 1068[10:15:08] <Ticho_> either move your screen further away, or move it lower (or make your chair taller)
• 1069[10:15:10] <ikarosuusi> $ sudo apt -t unstable install gcc-4.8
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• 1071[10:15:16] <no_gravity> Ede|Popede: Bigger distance would be a different thing. Eyes look different at something that is more far away. Also I would have to adjust the sizes of everything.
• 1072[10:15:17] <ikarosuusi> E: Package 'gcc-4.8' has no installation candidate
• 1073[10:15:39] <Fox> ikarosuusi: if you're using stable don't mix it with unstable
• 1074[10:15:41] <n4dir> ikarosuusi: what? you probably want #debian-next
• 1075[10:15:43] <Ede|Popede> no_gravity: right. and they all tell us to look out of the window from time to time to relax our eyes :)
• 1076[10:16:10] <Ede|Popede> no_gravity: lower resolution may be the answer. from fullhd to hd or so.
• 1077[10:16:27] <ikarosuusi> $ sudo apt install gcc-4.8
• 1078[10:16:31] <ikarosuusi> E: Package 'gcc-4.8' has no installation candidate
• 1079[10:16:39] <Ede|Popede> ,v gcc
• 1080[10:16:39] <fragment1> as much black as possible
• 1081[10:16:39] <judd> Package: gcc on amd64 -- wheezy: 4:4.7.2-1; jessie: 4:4.9.2-2; stretch: 4:6.3.0-4; buster: 4:8.2.0-2; sid: 4:8.2.0-2
• 1082[10:16:52] <n4dir> fragment1: yup. same here.
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• 1084[10:17:54] <ikarosuusi> how do I install gcc 4.8 ?
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• 1087[10:18:20] <fragment1> ikarosuusi: those guys were saying that installing that version of gcc is a Bad Idea TM
• 1088[10:18:34] <fragment1> and that people in the #debian-next love doing that
• 1089[10:18:39] <Ede|Popede> ikarosuusi: it is on buster and sid. and no backports for stable. look at what Dox wrote
• 1090[10:18:47] <Ede|Popede> s/Dox/Fox/
• 1091[10:18:57] <ikarosuusi> Lol u serious
• 1092[10:19:15] <n4dir> i am very quick with /ignore these days ...
• 1093[10:19:27] <ikarosuusi> if a program refuses to compile otherwise do you think I'm just going to skip the whole deal because a dude in freenode told it was bad idea to compile it
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• 1095[10:19:34] <bites> it's not on buster and sid. 4: is a debian epoch, not the upstream version number.
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• 1097[10:21:01] <Ede|Popede> argh. right. i should have a closer look to my monitor.
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• 1102[10:21:36] <ikarosuusi> Package gcc-4.8
• 1103[10:21:36] <ikarosuusi> jessie (oldstable) (devel): GNU C compiler
• 1104[10:21:36] <ikarosuusi> 4.8.4-1: amd64 arm64 armel armhf i386 mips mipsel powerpc ppc64el s390x
• 1105[10:21:36] <ikarosuusi> sid (unstable) (devel): GNU C compiler
• 1106[10:21:37] <ikarosuusi> 4.8.3-13 [debports]: arm64
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• 1110[10:22:04] <Fox> that won't help him being cooler :)
• 1111[10:22:04] <Ede|Popede> !paste
• 1112[10:22:04] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: replaced-url
• 1113[10:22:09] <Ede|Popede> ikarosuusi --^
• 1114[10:22:28] <ikarosuusi> theres a gcc-4.8 package in oldstable and unstable
• 1115[10:22:36] <ikarosuusi> whats the apt command to install it?
• 1116[10:23:03] <ikarosuusi> is "oldstable" an actual repository name I can put to sources.list like experimental etc ?
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• 1118[10:23:19] <n4dir> !ssb
• 1119[10:23:31] <n4dir> damnit. no loving from dpkg.
• 1120[10:24:33] <bites> it's not in unstable.
• 1121[10:24:45] <ikarosuusi> replaced-url
• 1122[10:25:06] <ikarosuusi> that thing finds it
• 1123[10:25:07] <bites> click on it and scroll down to architectures.
• 1124[10:25:19] <ikarosuusi> oh yeah right lol
• 1125[10:25:21] <bites> it's only the arm64 port left.
• 1126[10:25:39] <RoyK> n4dir: what's ssb?
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• 1128[10:26:03] <n4dir> RoyK: simple sid backport (though i always get confused, i hope that is the right trigger)
• 1129[10:26:08] <Fox> RoyK: Simple Sid Backport
• 1130[10:26:23] <Fox> !ssbp
• 1131[10:26:23] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
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• 1133[10:26:53] <RoyK> !ssb
• 1134[10:26:53] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
• 1135[10:26:57] <Fox> but he won't be backporting from sid I guess
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• 1138[10:27:28] <Ede|Popede> is there such as foreporting from oldstable?
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• 1142[10:28:52] <annadane> it's been done
• 1143[10:28:56] <n4dir> i guess my point was something like: don't just add a package from a different debian release. If you need to compile a package (and that is quite a big ?), then do it in a chroot, or at least backport it.
• 1144[10:28:58] <Ede|Popede> i wanted to look at replaced-url
• 1145[10:29:04] <n4dir> that was very unclear. sorry.
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• 1152[10:31:48] <n4dir> Ede|Popede: i think i have heard, but never did it myself, you can get away with just "apt-get install" from old-stable (you can ! it depends). While you really never want to do that for a testing or unstable package. imho.
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• 1155[10:33:00] <Ede|Popede> n4dir: thanks for the tip, i'll try it occasionally
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• 1157[10:33:23] <n4dir> if you do it, better ask for the details (as said: for me it really is hearsay)
• 1158[10:33:24] <Ede|Popede> generally spoken... mixing is a problem with compatibility, right?
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• 1160[10:34:07] <Ede|Popede> and dependencies are mostly a directed tree (unless there are choices as in apache's MPMs: you chose *exactly* one)
• 1161[10:34:17] <n4dir> i'd guess also dependencies ... ah, you said it.
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• 1164[10:35:07] <Ede|Popede> so it should be rather unproblematic to start with a leaf (or some which are related if needed)
• 1165[10:36:01] <Ede|Popede> like i don't think there would be a package depending on replaced-url
• 1166[10:36:32] <Ede|Popede> if the package breaks, it breaks. then you uninstall it. or simply build it from sid sources.
• 1167[10:37:50] <Ede|Popede> i only had some issues with newest firefox and some java tool near the end of my wheezy experience. no java 8, and firefox missed some GLIBC symbol. (4.16 or similar)
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• 1170[10:39:03] <Ede|Popede> but as long as autoinstalled system libraries and such stay untouched, it shouldn't be a problem as long as it is done carefully and one by one?
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• 1172[10:39:46] <n4dir> thats what i guess too (the dependencies are the main part how safe it would be)
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• 1174[10:41:35] <Ede|Popede> debtree+dot: one of the best couples in the debianverse.
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• 1176[10:42:57] <Ede|Popede> wait what, another debian book? replaced-url
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• 1179[10:44:09] <RoyK> Ede|Popede: perhaps someone should write a metabook about debian books…
• 1180[10:44:34] <Ede|Popede> debian-books.yp ... oh wait, this term is (c) :(
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• 1186[10:47:29] <jelly> Ede|Popede: it's not (c), it's a trademark
• 1187[10:47:35] <grady> which sas controller card is good choice when i just want add couple of sas drives to my lvm. i dont raid them or anything. motherboard is consumer stuff, no server hardware :)
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• 1191[10:50:19] <grady> the drives has hp stickers on them
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• 1198[10:52:04] <FightingFalcon> My webserver (nginx) gives 502 bad gateway error after update&upgrade debian.. what might be the cause? php-fpm?
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• 1201[10:52:34] <grady> what the logs says?
• 1202[10:53:23] <hwm4rgs> FightingFalcon: Your php version might have changed which might have changed the path to the fpm socket
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• 1204[10:53:47] <FightingFalcon> i checked that but it doesnt seem to work
• 1205[10:53:48] <FightingFalcon> wait
• 1206[10:53:54] <grady> if there is lots of happenings after the error, just restart the nginx and look the logs then
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• 1208[10:54:44] <FightingFalcon> its /var/run/php/php7.2-fpm.sock in nginx config
• 1209[10:54:49] <FightingFalcon> but /run/php/php7.2-fpm.sock in replaced-url
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• 1212[10:55:57] <grady> so you have taken the fpm some 3rd repository?
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• 1215[10:57:25] <FightingFalcon> i think so
• 1216[10:57:37] <FightingFalcon> i always download it from the same repository
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• 1219[10:58:18] <grady> try enable that repository for your current debian version and reinstall it, perhaps that fix the config then?
• 1220[10:58:27] <hwm4rgs> Or just update the config.
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• 1222[10:58:31] <grady> yep
• 1223[10:59:37] <FightingFalcon> even a .txt file returns bad gateway.. i have varnish it has to do with varnish perhaps?
• 1224[10:59:51] <Ede|Popede> shouldn't it work because > /var/run: symbolic link to /run
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• 1231[11:01:33] <FightingFalcon> yes it worked now
• 1232[11:01:37] <FightingFalcon> the problem is WITH varnish
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• 1234[11:02:17] <Mathisen> anyone else had error when updating samba ? stretch
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• 1237[11:02:38] <grady> mathisen, perhaps, but not me
• 1238[11:02:41] <Mathisen> Failed to preset unit: Unit file /etc/systemd/system/samba-ad-dc.service is masked.
• 1239[11:02:59] <grady> oh, ad :)
• 1240[11:03:15] <Mathisen> also /usr/bin/deb-systemd-helper: error: systemctl preset failed on samba-ad-dc.service: No such file or directory
• 1241[11:03:17] <FightingFalcon> To cut a long story short basically the file that is in /etc/default/varnish should be copied to /lib/systemd/system/varnish.service but after updating the server for whatever reason this file was replaced with the default varnish configuration file and with that it had removed my port 80 edits and reset it back to port 6081.
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• 1245[11:05:20] <grady> FightingFalcon: it isnt should to do that, it asks you if it wants to give you a new config file
• 1246[11:05:31] <grady> apt i mean
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• 1250[11:06:24] <FightingFalcon> i always said "keep the local file".. is this correct to do?
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• 1253[11:06:49] <grady> "current version"
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• 1255[11:07:27] <grady> it is default action, N
• 1256[11:07:40] <FightingFalcon> So i should have accepted the current version or keep the local file?
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• 1258[11:08:46] <grady> im not sure about the "local file" perhaps it does backup of the current and replace it with the maintainer version
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• 1260[11:09:20] <FightingFalcon> Where could i see the log of last update-upgrade?
• 1261[11:09:23] <FightingFalcon> server is back running now btw
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• 1263[11:09:54] <grady> that what i dont know, perhaps somewhere in the var?
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• 1265[11:10:15] <Ede|Popede> /var/log/apt has some
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• 1267[11:11:06] <teclo-> yes /var/log/apt has for sure the relevent information
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• 1272[11:11:42] <grady> yes :)
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• 1281[11:14:52] <FightingFalcon> uh during the update process it asked me several times whether i shall keep the old version or new config file and i said "keep the old one" everytime.
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• 1288[11:18:11] <grady> do you see that config file what is the problem?
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• 1313[11:35:25] <XaT> hi', i need hplip from buster (as there is not hplip in stretch-backports)
• 1314[11:35:43] <XaT> what's the safest way to ensure it is installed ?
• 1315[11:35:59] <jelly> XaT: make a local backport. Do not install packages from buster.
• 1316[11:36:06] <jelly> !ssb
• 1317[11:36:06] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
• 1318[11:36:17] <jelly> ,checkbackport hplip
• 1319[11:36:18] <judd> Backporting package hplip in sid→stretch/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using stretch, archignore, stretch-backports.
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• 1321[11:36:42] <XaT> thx
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• 1325[11:38:33] <colo-work> XaT, maybe it's enough for you to fetch the appropriate PPD file from a source release (or the debian package from buster), and feed that into cups manually
• 1326[11:38:45] <colo-work> I've had instances of this working for me in the past
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• 1330[11:40:08] <XaT> colo-work, yeah that was how i use to proceed
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• 1335[11:41:11] <XaT> but i'm trying to make a nice cups server using puppet (btw puppet cups module is not working well)
• 1336[11:41:57] <XaT> got some printers that need 3.17.5 (3.16.11 in stretch)
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• 1347[11:53:44] <XaT> ok, just that hplip 3.18.10 is in NEW queue for stretch-backports replaced-url
• 1348[11:53:49] <XaT> just saw*
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• 1354[11:56:14] <N3RG4L> Hi all !
• 1355[11:56:57] <N3RG4L> I have a debian 7.8 (3.2.0-4-amd64), and I can't mount NFS 4.1
• 1356[11:57:12] <N3RG4L> is it the kernel that don't support 4.1 ?
• 1357[11:57:32] <colo-work> wheezy is end of life for a while now. you should upgrade to Debian 9.6.
• 1358[11:57:51] <colo-work> NFS needs both proper kernel and userspace support - I doubt wheezy can do 4.1
• 1359[11:59:14] <N3RG4L> colo-work, upgrading to Debian 9 is a bit risky for us now :/ (it will be done next year)
• 1360[11:59:36] <colo-work> that you should consider upgrading to Debian 8 ;)
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• 1363[12:00:19] <grady> test server is always good to have
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• 1369[12:04:05] <grady> i have been testing that syncthing tool, it is great but if i remove files from source directory, does it remove files from version history too?
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• 1399[12:24:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1447
• 1400[12:24:11] <eia1x> Hi, is there a way to rebuild the .list to dpkg packages? I've lost some files.list from /var/lib/dpkg/info...
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• 1418[12:30:54] <themill> eia1x: just reinstall the packages is probably easiest.
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• 1420[12:31:02] <themill> aptitude reinstall ~i
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• 1424[12:31:56] <b30wulf> eia1x: dpkg --clear-avail && dpkg --update-avail
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• 1429[12:34:58] <eia1x> themill: I got an error: replaced-url
• 1430[12:35:18] <eia1x> b30wulf: I'll try
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• 1433[12:37:37] <themill> eia1x: I think that error seems pretty self-explanatory?
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• 1436[12:39:30] <eia1x> themill: heh, I tried to run aptitude update (and looks to return for each corrupted package)
• 1437[12:40:10] <themill> where did that package come from?
• 1438[12:40:27] <eia1x> b30wulf: how can I enable the permission --> error: bulk available update requires write access to dpkg status area
• 1439[12:40:27] <themill> (it's not in Debian)
• 1440[12:41:31] <b30wulf> dpkg --update-avail rclone-browser
• 1441[12:41:31] <dpkg> b30wulf: I don't know, could you explain it?
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• 1443[12:41:51] * themill doubts that will do anything useful
• 1444[12:41:56] <b30wulf> heh
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• 1446[12:42:33] <eia1x> themill: Humm, I dont remeber it, but I've a lot of packages (e.g.: if I reinstall the dpkg replaced-url
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• 1449[12:43:38] <eia1x> I'll try with another package...
• 1450[12:43:56] <themill> this looks decidedly not like a debian system
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• 1452[12:45:04] <eia1x> themill: I'm running in ubuntu (almost there?)
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• 1454[12:45:12] <petn-randall> !ubuntu
• 1455[12:45:12] <dpkg> Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on chat.freenode.net instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
• 1456[12:45:54] <b30wulf> heh
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• 1458[12:46:14] <b30wulf> fuduntu
• 1459[12:46:44] <themill> eia1x: when it comes to "why can't I download this package" that explains why you're asking the wrong people
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• 1462[12:49:20] <eia1x> themill: understood, I will try there again ... :)
• 1463[12:49:34] <b30wulf> eia1x: buy a new computer and install debian
• 1464[12:49:41] <b30wulf> throw the old one out
• 1465[12:49:47] <b30wulf> its corrupted
• 1466[12:49:49] * petn-randall raises eyebrow.
• 1467[12:50:44] <themill> b30wulf: feel free to be helpful instead.
• 1468[12:50:46] <eia1x> b30wulf: kkk, I'm thinking about this, even because I need a heavy gpu card...
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• 1470[12:51:26] <b30wulf> humor can be useful in conveying helpful messages
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• 1475[12:52:18] <petn-randall> FSVO helpful.
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• 1478[12:52:52] <b30wulf> eia1x, you can customize debian quite a bit, change icon themes or whatever made u want to use fuduntu. dont need the bloatware that comes with fubuntu
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• 1483[12:55:49] <eia1x> b30wulf: I am a bit noob yet, I migrated (in dualboot) this year from Windows (there were already some experiences with the distro Conectiva formerly ~ 2004), but I intend to try other versions now, heh
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• 1489[12:58:35] <b30wulf> if u havent customized it too much and since u having some package corruption perhaps try debian sooner than later :)
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• 1503[13:02:38] <petn-randall> I appreciate your effort to convince people to move to Debian, but whatever caused those files to disappear (I'm guessing a wrong rm -Rf) would have likely also happened on Debian.
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• 1548[13:23:31] <b30wulf> yep
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• 1563[13:31:04] <vlt> Hello. Is it possible to format and use a device as bcache backing disk (-B) without having the actual caching disk (-C) yet?
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• 1569[13:33:02] <vlt> I want to setup a large md raid as PV for LVM and don't want to have to pvmove everything later.
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• 1599[13:44:49] <NetTerminalGene> anyone use iridium browser here? is it good?
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• 1604[13:46:55] <petn-randall> NetTerminalGene: Looks like Chromium with a new label on to me. Their website doesn't mention what they actually changed.
• 1605[13:47:04] <XaT> got a problem to compile a package from sid src on my stretch (coz no package yet in backports), it need debhelper >=11 :/
• 1606[13:47:08] <XaT> is there a work around ?
• 1607[13:47:35] <petn-randall> ,v debhelper
• 1608[13:47:36] <judd> Package: debhelper on amd64 -- wheezy: 9.20120909; jessie: 9.20150101+deb8u2; jessie-security: 9.20150101+deb8u2; jessie-backports: 10.2.5~bpo8+1; stretch: 10.2.5; stretch-backports: 11.3.5~bpo9+1; buster: 11.5.3; sid: 11.5.3
• 1609[13:47:47] <petn-randall> XaT: You can install it from backports.
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• 1611[13:48:11] <XaT> petn-randall, thx
• 1612[13:48:16] <XaT> (nice bots here)
• 1613[13:48:41] <XaT> oh i forget to turn on backports ;o
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• 1617[13:50:11] <petn-randall> You're welcome :)
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• 1705[14:38:58] <fboender> perhaps offtopic, but does anybody know if it's possible to include the entire file as context with diff(1)?
• 1706[14:39:48] <greycat> just give a huge number as argument to -U ?
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• 1708[14:40:30] <fboender> yeah I guess that would do it. I already did a 'diff -U$(wc -l foo)'
• 1709[14:40:35] <fboender> not elegant, but it works.
• 1710[14:40:46] <fboender> was just wondering if there was a nicer way.
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• 1712[14:42:17] <Ede|Popede> wondering if replaced-url
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• 1790[15:25:27] <Diablosxm> Hi all .Ihave a question about "locale" , when i try to do "LC_TIME=fr_FR.UTF-8 date +%x" on terminal date still in US format ?
• 1791[15:25:51] <greycat> Did you generate t he fr_FR.UTF-8 locale using "dpkg-reconfigure locales" yet?
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• 1793[15:26:14] <greycat> Also, does that locale show up with that *exact* name in "locale -a" output?
• 1794[15:26:22] <greycat> Or is it "fr_FR.utf8" instead?
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• 1811[15:31:49] <Diablosxm> i dont want to change my locale i just want to see french date one time
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• 1813[15:32:31] <Diablosxm> C
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• 1815[15:32:34] <Diablosxm> C.UTF-8
• 1816[15:32:36] <Diablosxm> en_US.utf8
• 1817[15:32:38] <Diablosxm> POSIX
• 1818[15:33:23] <nix64bit> I cannot install gcc-6-multilib in debian 9, is there a workaround?
• 1819[15:33:33] <Ticho> Diablosxm: uncomment your locale to /etc/locale.gen, and run locale-gen
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• 1823[15:34:24] <jelly> Diablosxm: if you have "locales" package installed and not "locales-all", locale definitions including date formats may not be present at all on your system
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• 1825[15:35:17] <jelly> Diablosxm: ask the package to enable those you need. The system default does not need to be changed.
• 1826[15:35:20] <jelly> !locales
• 1827[15:35:20] <dpkg> Use 'dpkg-reconfigure locales' to get it up and running. This generates <locale> definitions and also edits /etc/default/locale which sets the $LANG environment variable at login time. Use "LANG=C command" to change the output language for a one off command, ask me about <localised errors>. See also <mac locales>. replaced-url
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• 1831[15:36:27] <jelly> (oh, this is equivalent to what Ticho suggested)
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• 1833[15:36:50] <nix64bit> depends libc6-dev-i386
• 1834[15:37:12] <Diablosxm> i think i do misunderstanding i dont want to change my locales at all i just want to see date in french or dutch for one time in terminal.
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• 1836[15:37:43] <greycat> You must GENERATE the french locale. This doesn't mean you have to permanently change your own locale to it. But you must create it.
• 1837[15:38:01] <Ticho> yes, you will just be adding the french locale to list of locales available
• 1838[15:38:12] <greycat> Either by editing that file, or by running dpkg-reconfigure locales.
• 1839[15:38:37] <Ticho> the system can't show date in french if it doesn't know how - the generated locale will tell it how
• 1840[15:38:56] <Diablosxm> need to be root or sudo
• 1841[15:39:02] <greycat> Debian doesn't generate all possible locales by default, because they take up a bunch of space and most people only use one.
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• 1843[15:39:40] <jelly> like tens of megabytes!
• 1844[15:39:52] <jelly> ,i locales-all
• 1845[15:39:53] <judd> Package locales-all (localization, extra) in stretch/amd64: GNU C Library: Precompiled locale data. Version: 2.24-11+deb9u3; Size: 3539.5k; Installed: 126722k; Homepage: replaced-url
• 1846[15:40:46] <greycat> A dozen tens!
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• 1848[15:41:35] <Diablosxm> ok thx
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• 1850[15:43:02] <n4dir> though iirc i used localpurge not because the mere size bugged me, but because during upgrades of related packages (?) all were re-generated (?), which took a while (and was pointless for locale i would never use anyway).
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• 1853[15:45:07] <jelly> regeneration is avoided with locales-all
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• 1857[15:46:00] <n4dir> ah, then that would have been another solution, i guess (i don't really remember the details).
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• 1877[15:59:46] <uniqdom> Hello, I want to boot debian in console mode only, does a shell or something like that with audio enabled exists for blind people?
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• 1880[16:00:56] <greycat> Audio has nothing to do with X11. Simply log in on the console and run whatever audio player you want.
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• 1904[16:12:38] <uniqdom> greycat: sorry, I mean a software that reads out what's in the shell. A software like ORCA but for a console only machine.
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• 1907[16:13:12] <greycat> A screen reader? I don't know any of those. But maybe knowing that term will help you search.
• 1908[16:13:14] <n4dir> uniqdom: all i know is that the distribution exists: adriane, knoppix based, for blind people.
• 1909[16:13:37] <uniqdom> a screen reader. thanks.
• 1910[16:13:41] <n4dir> just read their web-site, and they do mention orca.
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• 1914[16:14:34] <uniqdom> I will take a look, thanks
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• 1922[16:20:18] <XaT> aptitutde build-dep doesn't generate .deb for dependancies ?
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• 1924[16:20:51] <XaT> i've run aptitutde build-dep hplip and got a .deb for hplip but nothing for dependancies ?
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• 1926[16:21:01] <greycat> It installs the packages that are required to compile the thing you asked it to prepare to compile.
• 1927[16:21:14] <XaT> okey
• 1928[16:21:33] <XaT> so i've to compile all dependancies
• 1929[16:21:47] <hansol> heho
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• 1933[16:22:33] <greycat> If you're creating a backport, the goal is to have as *few* backported packages as possible. If the dependencies can be met in stable, then you should use the stable packages.
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• 1939[16:24:12] <XaT> can't use stable packages in that case
• 1940[16:24:15] <jelly> XaT: you have to compile hplip. Dependencies you merely install.
• 1941[16:25:17] <jelly> and the bot said all _build_ dependencies were available in stable or stable-backports
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• 1946[16:26:01] <XaT> replaced-url
• 1947[16:26:01] <XaT> okay
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• 1980[16:40:40] <tsglove> I am trying to install mariadb with apt-get install mariadb-server yet it fails with this error --> replaced-url
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• 1982[16:41:08] <tsglove> I tried apt-get remove --purge mariadb-server apt-get autoremove apt-get autoclean and then re-install, yet still the same error.
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• 1984[16:41:12] <tsglove> What am I missing?
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• 1997[16:47:43] <petn-randall> ,v libc-bin
• 1998[16:47:44] <judd> Package: libc-bin on amd64 -- wheezy: 2.13-38+deb7u10; wheezy-security: 2.13-38+deb7u12; jessie: 2.19-18+deb8u10; jessie-security: 2.19-18+deb8u10; stretch-security: 2.24-11+deb9u1; stretch: 2.24-11+deb9u3; buster: 2.27-8; sid: 2.27-8; experimental: 2.28-0experimental1
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• 2001[16:47:54] <petn-randall> ,v mariadb-server-10.1
• 2002[16:47:55] <judd> Package: mariadb-server-10.1 on amd64 -- stretch: 10.1.26-0+deb9u1; stretch-security: 10.1.37-0+deb9u1; buster: 1:10.1.37-1; sid: 1:10.1.37-1
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• 2004[16:48:39] <petn-randall> !bat
• 2005[16:48:39] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
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• 2009[16:49:11] <petn-randall> tsglove: Can you provide all of the above? 2. is "apt-cache policy mariadb-server-10.1 mariadb-server'.
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• 2011[16:49:22] <tsglove> petn-randall, I'm on it. Thanks
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• 2013[16:49:29] <tsglove> Getting that info now
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• 2020[16:53:19] <LinuxFire> tsglove, you can try this replaced-url
• 2021[16:53:30] <karlpinc> I'm curious how it can come to be that libc-bin on stretch is 2.24-11+deb9u3 but stretch-security is on deb9u1 an earlier release. Is this because libc is tied to the kernel?
• 2022[16:54:16] <petn-randall> karlpinc: stable-updates got a non-critical update with the last point release, which is higher than the security update that it got some time before.
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• 2024[16:54:34] <petn-randall> karlpinc: That's completely normal, and not related to libc6 or the kernel.
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• 2026[16:55:36] <karlpinc> petn-randall: Humm. I'll have to look at the changelog. I was under the impression that point releases pretty much didn't update anything that wasn't "important".
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• 2029[16:56:02] <greycat> They sometimes include changes that were *not* previously released by the security team.
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• 2034[16:57:24] <petn-randall> karlpinc: There are important issues that aren't a security issue. For example, gcc could fail to build C code on certain architectures. Fixing that would be considered release-critical, even though it's not security relevant.
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• 2133[17:54:44] <tmiw> looks like disabling C1E in the BIOS finally fixed my weird Ethernet/SAS card issues
• 2134[17:54:50] <tmiw> \o/
• 2135[17:55:04] <tmiw> 30 day uptime and counting
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• 2202[18:27:42] <Tenkawa> yay my main work station has full range wifi and bluetooth now :)
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• 2204[18:28:38] <Tenkawa> er workstation
• 2205[18:29:11] <Tenkawa> had to transplant a wifi/bt combo minipci card into it
• 2206[18:29:19] <Tenkawa> (notebook)
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• 2209[18:29:52] <Tenkawa> including routing a new antenna... fortunately debian picked it up like a champ
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• 2214[18:30:47] <eargasmic> how do i resurrect deleted files
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• 2216[18:31:38] <joepublic> eargasmic, in general, you don't
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• 2218[18:31:49] <Tenkawa> not with any consistency
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• 2222[18:33:04] <eargasmic> no way i could recover the files?
• 2223[18:33:19] <bites> first you make sure you don't write on there. umount the partition in question. then it depends on which fs and how much you've written on it since deletion.
• 2224[18:33:45] <bites> ,i extundelete
• 2225[18:33:47] <judd> Package extundelete (utils, optional) in stretch/amd64: utility to recover deleted files from ext3/ext4 partition. Version: 0.2.4-1+b2; Size: 52.1k; Installed: 148k; Homepage: replaced-url
• 2226[18:33:52] <fragment1> eargasmic: which filesystem, and where was it mounted
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• 2229[18:34:13] <fragment1> NTFS / ext4 / FAT32?
• 2230[18:34:16] <petn-randall> eargasmic: Recover from backups.
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• 2232[18:34:58] <Tenkawa> its by no means guranteed
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• 2234[18:36:40] <fragment1> I have a slightly more satisfying question for the gurus here. Is there anyway to make pulseaudio to reduce the effect of my volume control. I wish to have to active it 4x as masy times
• 2235[18:37:08] <fragment1> I want to have to spin the rotary encoder right around, not just 45 degrees from mute to full volume
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• 2239[18:38:14] <fragment1> question is: how do you make the debian pulseaudio volume control more high resolution? Using stretch with cinnamon
• 2240[18:40:43] <joepublic> do you have a screenshot of the volume control in question? I am having trouble visualizing it. My debians that have desktop environments use xfce
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• 2243[18:41:59] <fragment1> um i'll give it a go!
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• 2245[18:43:10] <eargasmic> fragment1, i guess its the default
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• 2248[18:43:27] <fragment1> yessir
• 2249[18:43:45] <fragment1> alpha-shaded grey square with rounded white border
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• 2251[18:44:09] <eargasmic> im computer illiterate
• 2252[18:44:27] <eargasmic> but i know the files were at my home directory
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• 2254[18:46:23] <Tenkawa> eargasmic: how do you know they were deleted?
• 2255[18:46:28] <fragment1> volume control: replaced-url
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• 2257[18:47:08] <Tenkawa> if you are running in a graphical mode you might have a trash/recyckle bin
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• 2259[18:47:12] <Tenkawa> er recycle
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• 2261[18:47:50] <fragment1> no kidding tenkawa. surprised we all missed that
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• 2263[18:47:58] <joepublic> fragment1, you might read this: replaced-url
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• 2265[18:48:18] <fragment1> you are absoutely damn right I might want to read that
• 2266[18:48:20] <fragment1> very much
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• 2270[18:48:48] <Tenkawa> fragment1: it just hit me when I was sitting here
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• 2274[18:50:03] <Tenkawa> I usually work in non-gui so i dont have one but i know sometimes its the one piece of the gui that comes in very handy for new users
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• 2278[18:50:34] <fragment1> good catch anyway
• 2279[18:50:35] <joepublic> "obvious" solutions are my favorite kind: They can completely solve a problem and are not that difficult to implelent besides. It's awesome when the problem is only something like that.
• 2280[18:50:40] <Tenkawa> thanks
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• 2282[18:51:34] <wonderer> if i want to register .no domains (norway) does anyone know best registrar to use
• 2283[18:51:34] <bites> fragment1: do you know the weechat smart filter? replaced-url
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• 2286[18:51:53] <fragment1> no I have no idea what that is, sorry!
• 2287[18:52:04] <fragment1> enver touched weechat
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• 2291[18:53:31] <bites> oh, i thought that was weechat running in the background in your picture. irssi looks very similar to weechat.
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• 2293[18:53:52] <joepublic> I dunno, wonderer, I usually use namecheap but they don't support .no domains.
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• 2295[18:55:25] <fragment1> everyone in chat knows I'm watching deadwood
• 2296[18:55:27] <fragment1> the shame.
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• 2298[18:55:39] <joepublic> But to answer your question, yes, someone for sure knows the best registrar to use for norway domains.
• 2299[18:55:45] <fragment1> hoople-head ingrates
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• 2312[19:02:14] <ctcx> Is the "tree" program actually based on "ls -R" command somehow?
• 2313[19:03:31] <BCMM> ctcx: you mean, does it call ls when you run it?
• 2314[19:03:43] <ctcx> Yes, kind of.
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• 2316[19:04:28] <BCMM> ctcx: it seems unlikely. why do you ask?
• 2317[19:04:39] <wonderer> joepublic - am using list here :) replaced-url
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• 2320[19:05:12] <BCMM> ctcx: it reads the LS_COLORS variable, so in that respect it does somewhat follow ls's configuration
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• 2323[19:05:49] <ctcx> I thought one could somehow mimic "tree"'s default behavior solely with ls command...
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• 2325[19:06:21] <BCMM> ctcx: from the developer's website: "Tree has been ported and reported to work under the following operating systems: Linux, FreeBSD, OS X, Solaris, HP/UX, Cygwin, HP Nonstop and OS/2." So it can't really rely on, like, *any* aspect of ls's behaviour
• 2326[19:06:53] <ctcx> But at most I have found a solution that only lists directories, not files.
• 2327[19:07:11] <jelly> it probably can rely on opendir() and readdir()
• 2328[19:07:31] <jelly> all of those are unix or unix-like systems
• 2329[19:07:32] <BCMM> ctcx: in general, it's a bad idea to use ls programatically. its output varies unpredictably from version to version and OS to OS
• 2330[19:07:45] <jelly> !parsing ls
• 2331[19:07:45] <dpkg> Trying to manipulate the output of "ls" isn't a very good idea at all: the output varies when you change locales or even between different versions of coreutils (let alone between linux and other unices). The output of ls was never designed to be fed into other programs and if you have odd characters like spaces or newlines in your filenames then you will strike trouble. See replaced-url
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• 2333[19:08:20] <ctcx> Oh
• 2334[19:08:41] <BCMM> ctcx: by "mimic "tree"'s default behavior solely with ls command", do you mean some script that repeatedly calls ls, or some recursive parameter for ls itself?
• 2335[19:09:13] <ctcx> So if wanting to recursively display all contents (directories and files) in hierarchic form, just use tree instead of playing with ls...
• 2336[19:09:20] <joepublic> or perhaps trying to save a few bytes of disk space by not installing tree?
• 2337[19:09:37] <BCMM> ctcx: well, that's what tree is for, after all...
• 2338[19:10:04] <BCMM> ctcx: there is ls -R (in gnu coreutils anyway). it's not formatted like tree, though
• 2339[19:10:06] <ctcx> I actually wondered why tree was not default included in a minimal Debian installation, if it sounds like a basic tool indeed.
• 2340[19:10:10] <jelly> find ... -print exists
• 2341[19:10:20] *** Joins: jubo2 (~juboxi@replaced-ip)
• 2342[19:10:24] <wonderer> wow one.com charge 11.88euros for dns administration
• 2343[19:10:26] <wonderer> wtf
• 2344[19:10:39] <wonderer> + the domain cost
• 2345[19:10:46] <BCMM> wonderer: does that include registration? or is that literally just for dns?
• 2346[19:10:49] <BCMM> woah
• 2347[19:11:06] <ctcx> BCMM: no, I meant a single "ls -R" command, but manipulated with necessary grep/sed/cut commands.
• 2348[19:11:07] <jelly> wonderer, ranting about registrars goes to #debian-offtopic tho
• 2349[19:11:22] <BCMM> ctcx: yeah, that definitely starts to feel like "parsing ls"
• 2350[19:11:28] <ctcx> ok
• 2351[19:11:37] <ctcx> (Already read the article)
• 2352[19:11:53] <wonderer> sorry worng chat
• 2353[19:11:59] <BCMM> it starts with "oh, it doesn't handle files with spaces properly but that's a quick fix", and then a hundred quick fixes later...
• 2354[19:12:16] <ctcx> eh?
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• 2357[19:13:22] <BCMM> writing things that parse ls. it makes you realise how many different ways there are for filenames to be weird.
• 2358[19:13:44] <ctcx> Ah
• 2359[19:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1477
• 2360[19:14:03] <ctcx> Yes, now that you mention it, that may be right...
• 2361[19:14:59] <ctcx> thanks
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• 2392[19:42:57] <spectie> hey all, does anyone know how to use gnome-fallback metacity with debian 9?
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• 2394[19:43:02] <Iarfen> hi!
• 2395[19:43:03] <spectie> i installed the package, but i don't see the option in my gdm menu
• 2396[19:43:14] <Iarfen> nvidia graphic cards work well inside debian?
• 2397[19:43:44] <Mathisen> yes
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• 2399[19:44:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1471
• 2400[19:44:28] <Mathisen> not sure about the brand new ones. but most work great
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• 2402[19:44:54] <joepublic> I am using a GTX Nvidia GTX 760. It works great and is driving my three monitors.
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• 2412[19:50:31] <jhutchins_wk> Mathisen: They're pretty good about having the drivers for new cards at Nvidia's web site, but it takes a while for support to make it to Stable.
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• 2414[19:50:45] <annadane> it depends on how they're used, the free nouveau drivers have limitations
• 2415[19:51:02] <annadane> i run nouveau on openbox and it's fine for what i need but you have a harder time running things like KDE
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• 2417[19:51:42] <spectie> ok, uninstalling and reinstalling gdm messed up my system :<
• 2418[19:53:16] <annadane> anecdotally from what other people have said the proprietary nvidia drivers tend to be fine
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• 2430[19:55:52] <joepublic> I haven't had any problems with the nouveau drivers.
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• 2435[19:58:02] <tharkun> Good $DAY, I've noticed that Firefox is gobling up 85% of 2GB ram I have on my laptop and it can go all the way up to consuming 80%ram and 50%swap. Is that an expected behaviour of Firefox?
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• 2438[19:59:03] <nkuttler> tharkun: sounds pretty normal
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• 2443[20:01:13] <b30wulf> apt-get install lynx
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• 2445[20:01:33] <Tenkawa> or links
• 2446[20:01:35] <Tenkawa> heheheh
• 2447[20:01:49] <Tenkawa> links
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• 2449[20:01:52] <Tenkawa> oops
• 2450[20:02:08] <Tenkawa> links works great for lightweight console browsing
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• 2452[20:02:29] <fragment1> real men surf the web with netcat
• 2453[20:02:42] <Tenkawa> fragment1: touche
• 2454[20:02:48] <Tenkawa> well played
• 2455[20:02:52] <d-lsd> actually netrik is smaller but not really good as lynx
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• 2491[20:26:26] <jelly> tharkun, how many tabs open? do you have NoScript or similar enabled to disable needless parts of web pages?
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• 2493[20:26:58] <jelly> if you have a hundred tabs open that might be just normal usage
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• 2497[20:28:56] <joepublic> 2GB sounds like plenty for "just looking at web pages" but it's actually not very much
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• 2502[20:31:14] <mizo> I want to have as a second display a TV screen connected by HDMI and the plasma kscreen widget is not working properly for me on Debian testing/unstable. When I try to enable to second screen, my primary screen becomes 80% black (and nothing on the second screen), and then I have to unplug the HDMI cable and replug. Is there an alternative to kscreen?
• 2503[20:31:38] <BCMM> it doesn't help that web pages keep getting bigger
• 2504[20:32:02] <joepublic> mizo, arandr is such an alternative.
• 2505[20:32:19] <joepublic> or xrandr from a prompt
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• 2507[20:33:49] <mizo> joepublic: I tried activating HDMI 1 and putting in on the right of my screen, and I got: "XRandR failed: XRandR returned error code 1: xrandr: Configure crtc 1 failed"
• 2508[20:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1477
• 2509[20:34:33] <joepublic> depends on a complex interplay of GPU, video kernel driver, x video driver, xrandr.
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• 2512[20:37:43] <velix> I've got a cruel question. Can I overlay overlayFS on my current root, build my app and copy the stuff to a partition outside and exit to keep my system clean?
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• 2517[20:41:38] <jhutchins_wk> !debian-next
• 2518[20:41:38] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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• 2521[20:44:37] <velix> 1461 idle users :D
• 2522[20:44:56] <joepublic> That's dedication.
• 2523[20:45:23] *** Quits: mavhc (~mavhc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2524[20:45:33] <Ede|Popede> reading answers ain't idling ;)
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• 2527[20:46:03] <peaceguy> hi all
• 2528[20:46:07] <velix> Perhaps it's superbowl again?
• 2529[20:46:21] <peaceguy> what?
• 2530[20:46:42] <velix> peaceguy: I'm just guessing, why this channel is so quiet.
• 2531[20:46:47] <peaceguy> lol
• 2532[20:46:52] <peaceguy> soon it won't be
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• 2534[20:46:59] <peaceguy> :D
• 2535[20:47:00] <jhutchins_wk> mizo: I suspect you might be testing specific.
• 2536[20:47:06] <Ede|Popede> hi peaceguy. velix: must be so, i've seen the usual spam for that irc network some days ago
• 2537[20:47:08] <peaceguy> yo
• 2538[20:47:10] *** Joins: woshty_ (~woshty@replaced-ip)
• 2539[20:47:11] <jhutchins_wk> s/you/your problem/
• 2540[20:47:15] <peaceguy> i am trying this in sudoers
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• 2544[20:47:33] <peaceguy> user ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: /sbin/kbdrate
• 2545[20:47:41] <peaceguy> still that command wants my password?
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• 2547[20:48:28] <greycat> Is your login name really "user"?
• 2548[20:48:30] *** Joins: srgg_ (~srgg@replaced-ip)
• 2549[20:48:41] <peaceguy> that is not even funny
• 2550[20:48:46] <peaceguy> you know what i mean
• 2551[20:48:54] <peaceguy> you know what i want
• 2552[20:48:55] <greycat> *plonk*
• 2553[20:48:59] <velix> I've got a security question: Why does nobody use usernames with uppercase in it? I'm seeing lowercase all the time.
• 2554[20:49:03] <velix> deBian
• 2555[20:49:06] <velix> would be much safer?
• 2556[20:49:08] *** Joins: malmalmal (~malmalmal@replaced-ip)
• 2557[20:49:11] <BCMM> peaceguy: it's worth checking - sometimes people copy and paste stuff from tutorials, and don't realise they should replace "user" with their actual username
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• 2559[20:49:14] <velix> DeBiAn
• 2560[20:49:15] <greycat> Maybe someone else will put up with your stupidity. Not me. Not today.
• 2561[20:49:19] <peaceguy> no
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• 2564[20:49:30] <peaceguy> ok what did i do?
• 2565[20:49:34] <peaceguy> i just put my name there
• 2566[20:49:36] <peaceguy> and you know it
• 2567[20:49:52] <velix> I know you want it ... na na naaa
• 2568[20:49:57] <velix> hey hey hey ...
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• 2570[20:50:16] <peaceguy> ok lol
• 2571[20:50:27] <peaceguy> but i mean this should work
• 2572[20:50:35] *** Joins: emucla (~emucla@replaced-ip)
• 2573[20:50:49] <peaceguy> it says can't open /dev/port
• 2574[20:50:50] *** Joins: pax (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 2575[20:50:55] <peaceguy> so it needs sudo password
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• 2580[20:51:39] <BCMM> peaceguy: what are you actually typing? are you doing `sudo kbdrate`, or just typing `kbdrate` in to your terminal?
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• 2582[20:51:55] <peaceguy> kbdrate gives that error, sudo asks for password
• 2583[20:51:58] <peaceguy> in my terminal
• 2584[20:52:13] <peaceguy> of course i tried both
• 2585[20:52:14] <fragment1> does relogging help?
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• 2587[20:52:19] <peaceguy> yes
• 2588[20:52:23] <peaceguy> i did that
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• 2590[20:52:38] <peaceguy> it doesn't
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• 2593[20:54:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1483
• 2594[20:54:12] <duvnell> I'm trying to install libxft-dev for both i386 and amd64. apt-get says they conflict. That the conflict is actually a bug in the deb's control file (a missing Multi-arch: same directive.. non of the files actually differ except the libs which are in arch specific folders).
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• 2596[20:54:22] <duvnell> Is there a way to force both to install?
• 2597[20:54:35] *** Joins: soee_ (~soee@replaced-ip)
• 2598[20:54:38] <duvnell> .. until the bug is fixed (I'm filing a report if it works)
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• 2602[20:55:17] <duvnell> I tried dpkg -i ..i386.deb ..amd64.deb but the latter just replaces the former
• 2603[20:56:04] <greycat> In general, *-dev packages do not have simultaneous multiarch installation capabilities.
• 2604[20:56:39] *** Quits: shabius_ (~shabius@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 2605[20:56:40] <somiaj> chroots are good things to create amd64 or i386 build enviorments (plus the build enviorment can often be cleaner than your normal enviorment)
• 2606[20:56:46] <peaceguy> ok but if the command sudo kbdrate is in .profile it asks my password
• 2607[20:57:00] <peaceguy> things in .profile aren't affected by sudoers file settings
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• 2609[20:57:39] <somiaj> peaceguy: is your sudoers file set up correctly to require that command doens't need a password?
• 2610[20:57:54] <peaceguy> it is
• 2611[20:58:00] <peaceguy> i posted that entry
• 2612[20:58:11] <joepublic> peaceguy, perhaps try it a different way.
• 2613[20:58:17] <peaceguy> like how?
• 2614[20:58:23] <somiaj> I missed that, but why are you wanting to automatically run this as root via a normal users .profile, this seems odd.
• 2615[20:58:24] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip)
• 2616[20:58:31] <joepublic> have one line say user ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL
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• 2618[20:58:37] <velix> Anyone with a word to my question?
• 2619[20:58:55] <peaceguy> but my line worked for other commands
• 2620[20:58:57] <peaceguy> like it is
• 2621[20:58:58] <joepublic> and another line that says user ALL = NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/this, /sbin/that
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• 2624[20:59:08] <peaceguy> it has that default line
• 2625[20:59:11] <peaceguy> don't worry
• 2626[20:59:13] <joepublic> oh. well, if your line worked, we're good then. nevermind.
• 2627[20:59:26] <Ede|Popede> velix: about usernames? cat /etc/passwd
• 2628[20:59:34] *** Joins: emucla (~emucla@replaced-ip)
• 2629[20:59:43] <velix> Ede|Popede: I've got a cruel question. Can I overlay overlayFS on my current root, build my app and copy the stuff to a partition outside and exit to keep my system clean?
• 2630[20:59:44] <duvnell> greycat: that's unfortunate as I'd like to use the same machine to build either arch
• 2631[20:59:46] <somiaj> Looks like you can actually configure this in your xorg.conf, so I would do that, something like /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/30-kbrate.conf
• 2632[20:59:56] <peaceguy> the default line says root ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL
• 2633[21:00:05] <peaceguy> that's the default one which i didn't touc
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• 2635[21:00:09] <duvnell> greycat: but all the other dev packages I have encountered haven't had an issue
• 2636[21:00:11] <somiaj> and use correct xorg.conf enteries, Option "AutoRepeat" "delay rate", in the right place to set the rate for the xserver, the .profile is probably not the best way to achive this setting.
• 2637[21:00:13] <peaceguy> but mine worked for other commands
• 2638[21:00:14] <Ede|Popede> velix: oh sry, forgot about that one. and again for having no clue
• 2639[21:00:20] <greycat> duvnell: I agree with somiaj. Put each arch's build environment in a separate chroot, or container, or whatever.
• 2640[21:00:31] <peaceguy> ok somiaj thanks
• 2641[21:00:32] <velix> Ede|Popede: okay ;)
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• 2644[21:00:49] <peaceguy> but
• 2645[21:00:55] <peaceguy> it's not for x it's for console
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• 2648[21:01:36] <peaceguy> if i wanted to put some sudo command into .profile and i set it not to ask for passwd in .etc.sudoers will that work?
• 2649[21:01:55] <somiaj> duvnell: using chroots, it is the same machine. And this has various avantages, one is it gives you a clean build enviorment.
• 2650[21:02:45] <duvnell> somiaj: I agree, but I'm unclear how you'd get the entire needed system in a chroot.. I man kernel libs, libc, all build tools (which needs to be native themselves)
• 2651[21:03:02] <somiaj> peaceguy: the manpage for kdbrate suggests /etc/rc.local as a File, to me this is suggesting you set the system thing there. Using sudo with .profile just sounds way to hacky.
• 2652[21:03:18] <somiaj> duvnell: look at debootstrap, 1) use debootstrap, 2) chroot, 3) apt install what you want
• 2653[21:03:19] <duvnell> somiaj: is that detailed in a tutorial somewhere?
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• 2655[21:03:26] <duvnell> pl
• 2656[21:03:27] <duvnell> ok
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• 2659[21:03:55] <n4dir> !debootstrap
• 2660[21:04:01] <n4dir> still no love from dpkg
• 2661[21:04:12] <somiaj> duvnell: there are various debootstrap tutorials out there, if you are familar with running things in shells, it is actually fairly straight forward once you get use to debootstrap.
• 2662[21:04:30] <peaceguy> lol
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• 2664[21:04:32] <peaceguy> ok
• 2665[21:04:34] <somiaj> dpkg: debootstrap
• 2666[21:04:34] <dpkg> debootstrap can create a basic Debian system from scratch, without apt/dpkg. Useful for installing in a <chroot>. It is key to installing Debian GNU/Linux from a Unix/Linux system, ask me about <install guide>. replaced-url
• 2667[21:04:50] <peaceguy> but if i wanted to autostart sudo command without prompting for pass how to achieve that then?
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• 2669[21:04:52] <n4dir> duvnell: type /msg dpkg debootstrap ; same for chroot. Should have links for how-to's.
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• 2671[21:05:36] <somiaj> n4dir: dpkg seemed to repsond to me without the !, maybe that flag isn't triggering dpkg?
• 2672[21:06:02] <somiaj> peaceguy: you need to setup a sudoers file in such a way to allow this without a password. In general this is a bad idea, and in this case, there are better ways to achive your goal.
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• 2674[21:06:16] <peaceguy> ok i understood that
• 2675[21:06:20] <greycat> !debootstrap
• 2676[21:06:20] <dpkg> debootstrap can create a basic Debian system from scratch, without apt/dpkg. Useful for installing in a <chroot>. It is key to installing Debian GNU/Linux from a Unix/Linux system, ask me about <install guide>. replaced-url
• 2677[21:06:23] <peaceguy> but not regarding this, any other command?
• 2678[21:06:25] <n4dir> somiaj: i got that problem for quite a while now. The last weeks it worked, now it stopped again. No idea why (i asked here, and no one could tell). It's weird.
• 2679[21:06:29] <peaceguy> how to autostart without password?
• 2680[21:06:33] <greycat> I think it's just n4dir. He must have pissed off someone who has admin rights on dpkg.
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• 2684[21:06:48] <somiaj> n4dir: try just dpkg: debootstrap (That work for you like it did me)?
• 2685[21:06:49] <jhutchins_wk> peaceguy: What are you trying to start?
• 2686[21:06:53] <somiaj> !test
• 2687[21:06:53] <dpkg> Test failed.
• 2688[21:06:57] <peaceguy> well i just got curious
• 2689[21:07:02] <n4dir> but i really never did "abuse" dpkg. Well. oh my.
• 2690[21:07:02] <peaceguy> ok thank you
• 2691[21:07:07] <n4dir> dpkg: debootstrap
• 2692[21:07:33] <somiaj> n4dir: hmm, unsure why you are on dpkg's ignore list or whatever. I'll mention this to the other ops, they may know how to properly look into it.
• 2693[21:07:58] <n4dir> thanks. It sucks a bit if it works, then i try as above, it doesn't work ...
• 2694[21:08:08] <n4dir> but really: a bit. not the end of the world
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• 2700[21:09:37] <plantroon> I am having the following problem (probably after the latest updates): on my Thinkpad X200, when I close the lid when the display is off (xset dpms) and then reopen it and move the mouse, I can only see a black screen with the cursor. Anyone else with similar behavior?
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• 2703[21:10:32] <somiaj> duvnell: note the link from dpkg is about installing a full system, in this case you don't need most of that (i.e. adding a kernel and making it bootable is not needed)
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• 2707[21:11:50] <duvnell> Thx, but I think i may just set up another vm... chroot is going to tend to poison everything. I'll be building sources from my $HOME and that won't be part of the chroot without rearranging a bunch of stuff
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• 2712[21:12:15] <duvnell> I'm not sure how much longer I'll be supporting i386 and a second VM is probably easier, as I'll be having to admin basically a second system using debootstrap
• 2713[21:12:32] <duvnell> debootstrap probably works fine for building debs in an automated way.. but I'm not in that situation
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• 2717[21:13:09] <somiaj> it is the files/libaries of the second system, but you can use it form your current running system/kernel. Also the clean chroot also makes debugging builds easier (since you won't have all the other stuff of your may system which could affect the build)
• 2718[21:13:28] <jhutchins_wk> duvnell: VM sounds like the way to go.
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• 2720[21:13:49] <somiaj> well debootstrap is just a script that downloads a debian base system and puts it in /some/directory
• 2721[21:13:52] <jhutchins_wk> duvnell: You can snapshot it and if a build goes bad you just reload.
• 2722[21:13:57] <duvnell> just said cuz cross compiling is almost possible.. it is if you don't need to build for multiple archs
• 2723[21:14:28] <duvnell> sad*
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• 2725[21:15:03] <jelly> n4dir, you can ask dselect in the meantime, it has a recent copy of the factoids
• 2726[21:15:13] <n4dir> hmm. Not sure if you couldn't just mount /home in the chroot. But i really don't fully understand your situation. duvnell
• 2727[21:15:14] <somiaj> duvnell: I'm not quite sure why -dev libaries aren't made multiarch. I'm sure there is a reason, I just don't know. But when I do lots of building, I find even building amd64 stuff, I like a clean chroot over my main system to build in.
• 2728[21:15:35] *** Joins: scream (~scream@replaced-ip)
• 2729[21:15:40] <n4dir> jelly: i can ask in #debian-next too (which makes the whole problem even more weird). But thanks for the hint.
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• 2731[21:15:59] <somiaj> well #debian-next is another network (unsure if that has anything to do with it)
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• 2734[21:16:24] <annadane> dpkg: hi
• 2735[21:16:24] <dpkg> hey, annadane
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• 2738[21:17:37] <duvnell> somiaj: the most obvious reason is that headers are usually located in /usr/include/... (though putting them under an arch dir which is part of the system includes in the tool chain would make a lot of sense like it already works for lib files) would be if the headers are generated by the package and possibly differ from arch to arch. 99% they are not generated and do not differ, but are written to be included on various platforms.
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• 2741[21:17:54] <duvnell> So this is part of the reason that a deb's control file can contain 'Multi-arch: same' declaring that files which are the same are okay
• 2742[21:18:21] <greycat> The packages would have to be *made* multiarch installable.
• 2743[21:18:54] <greycat> It's not just setting a magic flag. The actual conflicting files (probably libfoo.a and libfoo.so) have to be mitigated.
• 2744[21:19:14] <duvnell> yes.. and so far all the -dev packages I've seen put headers in /usr/include (conflicting with other arches) but put the libs in a arch specific folder
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• 2746[21:19:23] <jelly> n4dir, perhaps you just have one of THOSE faces
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• 2749[21:20:00] <annadane> if the problem persists ask dondelelcaro i guess
• 2750[21:20:06] <duvnell> do a dpkg -listfiles on pretty much any -dev packages and the libs and .pc files are in an arch specific dir
• 2751[21:20:07] <annadane> - dpkg is their bot
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• 2755[21:20:56] <n4dir> jelly: what is also weird: in those months i got that issue ( a very little one ), i never read anyone else had the same problem. And there sure is nothing unusual about my setup.
• 2756[21:21:00] <duvnell> is there a way to tell dpkg to put all files under a different root than / ?
• 2757[21:21:06] <duvnell> that would solve my issue
• 2758[21:21:19] <duvnell> because then can deal with the alternate root in my toolchain setup
• 2759[21:21:20] <jelly> capable -dev packages put includes in /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu or /usr/include/i386-linux-gnu
• 2760[21:21:53] <jelly> (and debian's cpp and gcc know how to deal with that)
• 2761[21:22:30] <duvnell> jelly: makes sense
• 2762[21:22:34] <joepublic> duvnell, you do have the option to unpack the deb yourself. That puts it under an alternative root.
• 2763[21:23:29] <jelly> duvnell, so the current state is, do builds for other arches in a separate chroot
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• 2769[21:26:18] <peaceguy> so can someone point me to some guide about rc.local configuring?
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• 2775[21:27:57] <jelly> !rc.local
• 2776[21:27:57] <dpkg> /etc/rc.local may be used to run simple commands at boot time. It exists by default in jessie or older; in stretch you need to create it. Don't forget the <shebang> and be sure to chmod 755 it. rc.local is considered a hack, a stopgap, or a temporary band-aid; see <systemd>
• 2777[21:28:07] *** Joins: mavhc (~mavhc@replaced-ip)
• 2778[21:28:49] <peaceguy> thanks
• 2779[21:28:50] <joepublic> Correction, rc.local is considered a hack, a stopgap, or a temporary band-aid by certain nonvisionary people in love with nontraditional init systems.
• 2780[21:28:56] <peaceguy> LOL
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• 2783[21:29:11] <joepublic> everyone else loves it
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• 2787[21:29:46] <peaceguy> replaced-url
• 2788[21:29:46] <jelly> joepublic, that part of the factoid is actually older than systemd itself.
• 2789[21:29:52] <peaceguy> says /etc/systemd/system/kbdrate.service lol
• 2790[21:29:55] <peaceguy> will try this now
• 2791[21:30:30] <joepublic> I have loved rc.local for a long, long time. There's something in mine right now. Dunno what, but I know something's there.
• 2792[21:30:31] <jelly> joepublic, previous version of the factoid used to recommend creating a custom init script based on /etc/init.d/skeleton.
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• 2797[21:31:15] <greycat> Honestly it depends on what you're *doing*.
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• 2799[21:31:32] <peaceguy> i don't see why this guide recommends putting this command in a service since it requires pass
• 2800[21:31:35] <peaceguy> to be executed
• 2801[21:31:40] <greycat> If you want a "oneshot" type command on a sysvinit box, rc.local may be preferred over an init.d script.
• 2802[21:31:57] <jelly> and if said command is non-blocking
• 2803[21:32:03] <jhutchins_wk> I used to call my iptables script from rc.local.
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• 2806[21:32:21] <greycat> Users of rc.local must have basic shell competence. Same for writers of init.d scripts, except the latter needs WAY more skill.
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• 2808[21:32:29] <jelly> jhutchins_wk, debian used to have an /etc/rc.boot/ directory as well
• 2809[21:32:51] <jelly> $work kept iptables script there
• 2810[21:32:55] <peaceguy> what about /etc/systemd/system/*.service ?
• 2811[21:33:26] *** Quits: DrWatson (~DrWatson_@replaced-ip) (Quit: DrWatson)
• 2812[21:33:30] <joepublic> ah, I am testing whether cat /etc/resolv.conf |grep ^nameserver|wc -l is greater than zero, and if not, puts something useful there. yeah, okay, that's a band-aid hack.
• 2813[21:33:49] <peaceguy> lol
• 2814[21:33:53] <n4dir> first of all: useless use of cat.
• 2815[21:33:54] <greycat> *cough* wc -c ^nameserver /etc/resolv.conf
• 2816[21:33:55] <peaceguy> how do you define a band-aid hack?
• 2817[21:34:01] <peaceguy> lol
• 2818[21:34:04] <greycat> useless cat *and* wc
• 2819[21:34:11] <greycat> blergh
• 2820[21:34:15] <greycat> *cough* grep -c ^nameserver /etc/resolv.conf
• 2821[21:34:33] <joepublic> I don't remember writing it, but yeah, it looks like there was a prize for most commands used that day.
• 2822[21:34:41] <jelly> meow
• 2823[21:34:48] <mutante> why count at all if the count is just for "greater than zero". "if grep"
• 2824[21:34:53] * greycat aims a hairball at jelly's feet
• 2825[21:35:01] <greycat> mutante: point.
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• 2827[21:35:42] <jelly> joepublic, grep returns an exit status indicating whether it found something or not. That exit status can be used in eg. an if... then... fi shell construct
• 2828[21:35:53] <greycat> Also:
• 2829[21:35:56] <greycat> !fixresolvconf
• 2830[21:35:56] <dpkg> To fix your /etc/resolv.conf: edit /etc/dhcp{,3}/dhclient.conf to include the nameservers you want to use (ask me about <override dns>). Alternatively, use <resolvconf> and specify the nameservers yourself: echo -e "nameserver a.b.c.d\nnameserver w.x.y.z" > /etc/resolvconf/resolv.conf.d/base; resolvconf -u (where a.b.c.d and w.x.y.z are your ISPs nameservers). Also ask me about <fixresolvconf the ugly way>.
• 2831[21:36:09] <greycat> Oh god, what... no.
• 2832[21:36:12] <greycat> !override dns
• 2833[21:36:12] <dpkg> To have dhclient etc not touch /etc/resolv.conf, the best plan is to configure it not to touch that file. See replaced-url
• 2834[21:36:36] <greycat> dpkg, no, fixresolvconf is <reply>see override dns
• 2835[21:36:37] <dpkg> okay, greycat
• 2836[21:36:53] <jelly> if grep -qc ^nameserver /etc/resolv.conf; then echo I CAN HAS RESOLVER; else echo NOO THEY BE STEALIN MY RESOLVERS; fi
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• 2838[21:37:04] <greycat> grep -q, not -qc
• 2839[21:37:16] <jelly> where did that c come from
• 2840[21:37:24] <greycat> from the original which was counting them
• 2841[21:37:45] *** Joins: ntz (~dpecka@replaced-ip)
• 2842[21:37:47] <ntz> hello
• 2843[21:37:55] <jelly> hi
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• 2846[21:38:10] <ntz> could somebody tell me, will this work in some very old debian as I expect: stat --printf=%U:%G\\\n /etc/passwd ??
• 2847[21:38:18] <ntz> very old debian is 6 or 7
• 2848[21:38:27] <greycat> TIAS
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• 2851[21:38:53] <ntz> ^^ I don't have one here to test it ... if somebody would be so kind and do it for me (or tell me if it will work) I'd be very grateful
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• 2854[21:39:12] <jelly> ntz, what is it supposed to do
• 2855[21:39:17] <n4dir> in the mere interest of science?
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• 2859[21:39:47] <ntz> jelly: don't know stat utility ? it will just: > stat --printf=%U:%G\\\n /etc/passwd
• 2860[21:39:50] <ntz> root:root
• 2861[21:40:07] <ntz> man -s1 stat
• 2862[21:40:09] *** Quits: tryte (~tryte@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 2863[21:40:19] <ntz> ^^ at least in modern linuxes
• 2864[21:40:34] <jelly> I know it exists, I don't know every single format option (or any really)
• 2865[21:40:37] <joepublic> he's gotcha there, ntz 1 jelly 0
• 2866[21:40:41] <greycat> ntz: If your GOAL is to MAKE SURE THE /etc/passwd FILE HAS THE CORRECT OWNER AND GROUP, then the solution is: chown root:root /etc/passwd
• 2867[21:40:47] <ntz> greycat: no
• 2868[21:40:49] <greycat> Thus, people asking you for your GOAL.
• 2869[21:40:58] <ntz> it was examplish file that exists in all linuxes
• 2870[21:41:04] <greycat> ...
• 2871[21:41:14] <annadane> i sense a plonk coming on
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• 2873[21:41:18] <greycat> Please, sir, tell us what you are attempting to accomplish.
• 2874[21:41:18] <n4dir> ha ha.
• 2875[21:41:22] <ntz> I wanted to know if old debian stat supports %U and %G
• 2876[21:41:28] <n4dir> again: why?
• 2877[21:41:30] <greycat> ...
• 2878[21:41:34] <greycat> !xy
• 2879[21:41:35] <dpkg> Slow down for a bit! Are you sure that you need to jump through that particular hoop to achieve your goal? We suspect you don't, so why don't you back up a bit and tell us about the overall objective... We know that people often falsely diagnose problems because they are too close to them -- it's easy to miss that there is a better way to proceed. See replaced-url
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• 2881[21:42:00] <jelly> ntz, you can look at coreutils changelog I guess?
• 2882[21:42:06] <ntz> hey, I am only asking:
• 2883[21:42:12] <ntz> could somebody tell me, will this work in some very old debian as I expect: stat --printf=%U:%G\\\n /etc/passwd ??
• 2884[21:42:17] <ntz> ^^ I don't have one here to test it ... if somebody would be so kind and do it for me (or tell me if it will work) I'd be very grateful
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• 2886[21:42:24] <n4dir> ok. Yes, it works. Next.
• 2887[21:42:30] <ntz> cool, thanks ..
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• 2889[21:42:40] <n4dir> oh my, i was kidding
• 2890[21:42:41] <jelly> ntz, stat --printf='%U:%G\n' .zshrc works on coreutils 8.5 in debian 6
• 2891[21:42:58] <ntz> great, thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know
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• 2893[21:43:07] <jelly> why did you want to know, tho?
• 2894[21:43:19] <joepublic> you can download debian 6 with jigdo.
• 2895[21:43:20] <ntz> I am writing script in rhel7 that is supposed to work also in debian 6 and 7
• 2896[21:43:34] <ntz> so wanted to be sure that this will work .. I don't have here debian to test it there
• 2897[21:43:42] <greycat> n4dir: Never underestimate the sheer stupidity of people in IRC.
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• 2900[21:44:05] <n4dir> pretty much any distro out there has debootstrap. In case you need to check some other things (rumors go even FreeBSD has it)
• 2901[21:44:23] <ntz> n4dir: for me ?
• 2902[21:44:27] <n4dir> yup.
• 2903[21:44:43] <n4dir> as said: in case you will need to check more.
• 2904[21:44:53] <jelly> n4dir, are you seriously expecting them to debootstrap some old debian to find out how some command works
• 2905[21:45:11] <ntz> n4dir: oh cool .. but thanks, no, this little thing perfectly fits for irc rather than for debootstrap :D
• 2906[21:45:29] <joepublic> he's gotcha there, ntz 2 jelly 0
• 2907[21:45:32] <greycat> At this point I'm hoping they just go away on their own, since they are not interested in doing anything right.
• 2908[21:45:55] <annadane> a million monkeys type on a million typewriters to try to come up with commands that existed in debian 6 that don't in debian 9
• 2909[21:46:23] <jelly> asking here where there's a chance someone has a horribly old Debian and can test it in 10 seconds IS the right thing
• 2910[21:46:53] <n4dir> ntz: because you assume that you will find people in IRC who run debian releases from ages ago? Whew, you sure got confidence.
• 2911[21:47:01] <n4dir> but it worked.
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• 2913[21:47:21] <jelly> n4dir, where ELSE would they have a chance of finding someone with a horribly old debian at hand?
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• 2915[21:47:39] <greycat> jelly: It's only "the right thing" if he can convince us he is not shooting himself in the foot by doing something *idiotic* and asking us whether his idiotic thing will *technically* succeed on Debian version x.
• 2916[21:47:47] <joepublic> I am pretty sure mp3level is in wheezy but not jessie+
• 2917[21:47:53] <n4dir> nah, i meant using debootstrap instead (and, it wasn't clear it seems) only *if* there are more such questions
• 2918[21:47:57] <jelly> ntz may often have done the wrong thing in the past IMHO, but not this time for this particular subquestion
• 2919[21:48:25] <jelly> and I don't care about the real question. Let's move on.
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• 2921[21:49:01] <n4dir> no, no, no. Lets beat a dead horse as long as possible :-)
• 2922[21:49:13] <greycat> "I want to run stat to get the owner of /etc/passwd" "No, just chown it." "You fool, I am lying about my goals. I will not reveal my actual goals or my reasoning. I just want you to tell me whether stat --xyzqj will work on hamm."
• 2923[21:49:41] <greycat> And you expect us to react to this *how*, exactly?
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• 2925[21:49:46] <annadane> i suppose if you don't use it for internet facing purposes you can run debian 6/7...
• 2926[21:49:48] <bites> not like that, probably.
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• 2928[21:49:58] <jelly> greycat, by dropping it after it's been solved
• 2929[21:50:15] <greycat> 15:50 Ignoring ALL from ntz
• 2930[21:50:16] <greycat> Done.
• 2931[21:50:17] <joepublic> the expectation -- which was met, by the way -- seems to have been for someone to confirm or deny the operation of that command under those conditions.
• 2932[21:50:33] <greycat> joepublic: we KNOW that. Jesus.
• 2933[21:50:47] <greycat> Why does no one listen...
• 2934[21:51:22] <bites> we do, you just blow it out of proportion.
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• 2937[21:52:59] <n4dir> uhm. i am not a big fan of "we". I sure don't see any "blow out of proportion".
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• 2942[21:54:33] <joepublic> I thought that "I will not reveal my goals" was a pretty good factual summary.
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• 2967[22:06:12] <tharkun> ls
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• 2992[22:12:44] <jhutchins_wk> ntz: Did some suggest that you set up a VM in virtualbox?
• 2993[22:13:08] <jhutchins_wk> ntz: If you're going to do cross-distro development you should have a test environment.
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• 3015[22:27:33] <Starz0r> how old are the instructions for crossgrading?
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• 3017[22:27:55] <Starz0r> I'm still trying to get over the inital libc6:32bit to libc6:64bit hump
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• 3022[22:29:26] <jelly> which particular instructions?
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• 3024[22:31:21] <jelly> these are from 2014 replaced-url
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• 3028[22:31:51] <Starz0r> jelly: these replaced-url
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• 3032[22:33:02] <jelly> those at least reference articles from 2017 and about stretch
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• 3062[22:49:18] <Starz0r> jelly: odd, using the instructions I still can't get over the libc6 hump
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• 3065[22:52:04] <karlpinc> Gurr. When a daemon logs to systemd via console output and that output is sent to rsyslogd what log facility is used?
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• 3097[23:07:14] <jelly> Starz0r, how do things fail? Have you saved commands and output?
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• 3105[23:09:52] <guerby> ,kernel
• 3106[23:09:53] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.19.0-rc7-686-pae (4.19~rc7-1~exp1); sid: 4.18.0-3-686 (4.18.20-2); buster: 4.18.0-2-686-pae (4.18.10-2+b1); stretch-backports: 4.18.0-0.bpo.1-686-pae (4.18.6-1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-8-686-pae (4.9.130-2); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.8-686-pae (4.9.110-3+deb9u5~deb8u1); wheezy-
• 3107[23:09:54] <judd> backports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.102-1)
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• 3126[23:16:55] <Starz0r> jelly: it says I have unmet dependencies
• 3127[23:17:26] <Starz0r> sometimes I'm allowed to install it, but it will unreversaibly uninstall packages like apt, curl, bash, and other deps that are practically needed to run this system
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• 3133[23:19:44] <jelly> that's expected, and is why you go reinstall the new arch builds of those afterwards
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• 3135[23:19:54] <jelly> install*
• 3136[23:21:10] <plantroon> I solved my problem with malfunctioning DPMS by downgrading the kernel to 4.9.0-7. So it appears that 4.9.0-8 breaks DPMS. I filed a bug report but probably did it wrong xD I will file again once I have more time.
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• 3139[23:22:45] <plantroon> actually it might not even be DPMS, I don't know what exactly is broken. The laptop display staying blank only happens after closing and opening the lid while the display is off.
• 3140[23:23:39] <somiaj> do you use any third party modules with your kernel for you display?
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• 3142[23:24:28] <plantroon> no, this is a clean Debian setup. Thinkpad X200 with Libreboot :)
• 3143[23:24:42] <somiaj> could be a regression bug with one of the patches, or could be some abi change between -7 and -8
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• 3145[23:25:37] <somiaj> you could look at the changes between the two kernels, and try to locate the actual commit that breaks things (though will require building lots of kernels and testing, but can help the matainers help identify the actually point of the regression)
• 3146[23:25:51] <plantroon> now that I am thinking about it, I should have filed it upstream xD
• 3147[23:26:30] <somiaj> it depends on if the regression was due to some upstream change, or a debian patch.
• 3148[23:26:56] <plantroon> it's up: replaced-url
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• 3151[23:27:55] <somiaj> plantroon: replaced-url
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• 3155[23:28:18] <plantroon> I'll look at it in a few hours if I don't fall asleep. Thanks
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