• 0[00:00:01] <somiaj> so you may also want to look at versions in debian 10 to compare for what you need
• 1[00:00:10] <Rojola> I must pick an OS for a Droplet (virtual server)
• 2[00:00:21] <Rojola> somiaj, they don't offer Debian 10
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• 6[00:00:39] <Rojola> they offer Debian 9.7 and Ubuntu
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• 8[00:00:52] <donofrio> alpine for docker is that is what your asking about
• 9[00:00:53] <Rojola> I personally am doing well on both distros
• 10[00:00:57] <somiaj> !buster release
• 11[00:00:57] <dpkg> Buster's release is planned for 2019-07-06 (replaced-url
• 12[00:01:00] <BCMM> Rojola: you can check individual packages here and here replaced-url
• 13[00:01:03] <somiaj> (They may offer it soon, espically once the release happens)
• 14[00:01:23] <BCMM> Rojola: debian 9 is "stretch", or "stable"; ubuntu 18.04 is "bionic"
• 15[00:01:39] <Rojola> BCMM, now I am confused
• 16[00:01:53] <BCMM> Rojola: you can check the package versions included in both distros there
• 17[00:02:00] <Rojola> ah, that's what you meant
• 18[00:02:02] <Rojola> thank you
• 19[00:02:43] <mutante> donofrio: not sure, but i think rather not and everything needs to be in the ./archives/ dir directly
• 20[00:02:48] <BCMM> e.g. replaced-url
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• 23[00:03:15] <donofrio> that [trusted=yes] seems to be working!!
• 24[00:03:28] *** Quits: `jig (~jig@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 25[00:03:46] <BCMM> Rojola: what is "sandstorm"? is that sandstorm.io?
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• 28[00:04:44] <mutante> darude
• 29[00:04:57] <Rojola> BCMM, yes
• 30[00:05:02] <Rojola> an other question, please
• 31[00:05:07] <Rojola> Digital Ocean has an option:
• 32[00:05:08] <Rojola> [ ] IPv6 (Enables Public IPv6 Networking)
• 33[00:05:18] <BCMM> Rojola: i don't think either distro packages that... it's one of those stupid "curl | sh" installers
• 34[00:05:18] <Rojola> I think I should check this, shouldn't I ?
• 35[00:05:29] <mutante> sure, it's been waiting for 20 years to be enabled
• 36[00:05:36] <Rojola> BCMM, it did not work on my other provider's virtual server
• 37[00:05:42] <mutante> just remember to also use ip6tables
• 38[00:05:44] <Rojola> BCMM, they used OpenVZ and kernel 2.6
• 39[00:05:55] <BCMM> Rojola: how did it not work? i mean, what did you try, and what went wrong?
• 40[00:06:02] <Rojola> mutante, will it cause me any stress if I use ipv6 ?
• 41[00:06:11] <Rojola> BCMM, the kernel is not supported
• 42[00:06:12] *** Joins: m0u (~m0u@replaced-ip)
• 43[00:06:17] <Rojola> 2.6 is too old a kernel
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• 45[00:06:27] <Rojola> installing wekan via snap also failed
• 46[00:06:27] <BCMM> Rojola: yeah, 2.6 *is* too old a kernel
• 47[00:06:29] <BCMM> for, like, anything
• 48[00:06:31] <Rojola> because it could not be mounted
• 49[00:06:36] <mutante> Rojola: hard to tell without knowing what services you run.. i would say "a little but not too much" you need to care about firewall rules but only once
• 50[00:06:46] <Rojola> "wekan" is the software I really need installed
• 51[00:07:09] <BCMM> is there even an lts of kernel 2.6, upstream? i thought it was properly dead now
• 52[00:07:23] <Rojola> BCMM, I have absolutely no idea
• 53[00:07:31] <Rojola> BCMM, it's a small provider in a small european country
• 54[00:07:39] <BCMM> anyway, you'll be fine with either distro, on that front
• 55[00:08:00] <Rojola> I really feel comfortable with both Distros
• 56[00:08:07] <Rojola> I have used Debian ever since "Debian Potato"
• 57[00:08:14] <mutante> Rojola: so it uses nodejs and mongodb and nginx.. and if they support IPv6 there is no problem
• 58[00:08:36] <mutante> Rojola: i think it should be fine but if it's not you can always turn it off again.. go for it and try
• 59[00:08:44] <Rojola> and Ubuntu has been nice on Desktops back in the day when you had to manually configure the XF86Config
• 60[00:08:55] <Rojola> ok I try it
• 61[00:09:00] <donofrio> 2019 keyring updated to 2019 keyring thanks to the aupdate ;)!!!
• 62[00:09:02] <BCMM> Rojola: both debian and ubuntu have a kind of old docker package. it works ok for most stuff, but some people end up using docker.io's repos, if they need a current version replaced-url
• 63[00:09:07] <donofrio> from 2017
• 64[00:09:15] *** Quits: mtn (~mtn@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 65[00:09:33] <BCMM> donofrio: ok. now you might wanna turn the security back on :)
• 66[00:10:27] <BCMM> Rojola: as for proftpd... what are you doing? why do you have proftpd?
• 67[00:10:30] <BCMM> !ftpmustdie
• 68[00:10:30] <dpkg> FTP MUST DIE! replaced-url
• 69[00:11:56] <donofrio> I will....any way this can "get bug checked" so I don't have to do this on each rebuild?
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• 71[00:12:51] <donofrio> I thank you all for tolerating me and my ramblings......without your help I'd have reloaded ubuntu 16.04 on this awesome hardware of mine ;) off to go install 1500+ packages to get xfce4 and the like running
• 72[00:12:54] <somiaj> donofrio: powerpc is unoffical so no, maybe if someone were to do this a few times and document it, at least we can help the next wayward soul who wants to install powerpc
• 73[00:12:56] <Rojola> BCMM, I am using sftp
• 74[00:13:07] <Rojola> BCMM, don't I need proftpd to handle sftp connections?
• 75[00:13:15] <somiaj> sftp is an ssh extension
• 76[00:13:23] <Rojola> oh
• 77[00:13:24] <donofrio> opps it broke
• 78[00:13:26] <BCMM> Rojola: nope. you're probably confusing ftps and sftp
• 79[00:13:28] <somiaj> though I would just use scp/sftp over ssh
• 80[00:13:47] <Rojola> so I had proftpd installed on my servers for no reason? :)
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• 82[00:13:49] <BCMM> Rojola: ftps is just ftp over tls. like http and https.
• 83[00:13:50] <Rojola> good to know
• 84[00:14:00] <BCMM> Rojola: it has all of the problems of ftp, except for security
• 85[00:14:05] <Rojola> yes, I figured so much, but I thought proftpd would handle it
• 86[00:14:20] <donofrio> line 4102 replaced-url
• 87[00:14:23] <donofrio> ;(
• 88[00:14:40] <BCMM> Rojola: sftp is an entirely different, newer protocol. it's part of ssh. if you've got openssh server running, you already have an sftp server
• 89[00:15:09] <BCMM> Rojola: you can just log in with your favourite sftp client, and whatever username + key you use to log in with ssh
• 90[00:15:29] <BCMM> (you are using a key pair not a password on this presumably internet-facing machine, right?)
• 91[00:15:44] <somiaj> donofrio: that is one of the common issues with sid, sometimes depends can't be met, you have to track down the issue and maybe use snapshot.debian.org to help fix it
• 92[00:15:55] <donofrio> oh ok....
• 93[00:16:07] <Rojola> BCMM, I am using a normal password
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• 95[00:16:09] <donofrio> same debian-ports directory or?
• 96[00:16:20] <Rojola> BCMM, but I guess things are changing now - I just installed the droplet, and it works with an SSH key
• 97[00:16:21] <somiaj> though libgch-here-dev is probably unneeded package (unless you want to build stuff) you might be able to just remove it
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• 99[00:16:31] <donofrio> I'll remove it if I can...
• 100[00:16:32] <somiaj> you could try apt-get -f install and see what it wants to do
• 101[00:16:53] <BCMM> Rojola: if your server is accessible from the internet you will (not "might") get people trying to brute-force your password
• 102[00:17:15] <BCMM> it's ok to use a password instead of a key pair, but be very sure that the password is complex enough
• 103[00:17:32] <somiaj> also use fail2ban and/or denyhosts
• 104[00:17:42] <somiaj> they work well with ssh and will block failed attempts fairly quickly
• 105[00:17:50] <BCMM> botnets will find it and bruteforce it completely automatically; it doesn't matter how boring your server is, it will be targeted anyway
• 106[00:18:06] <Rojola> I don't know how much help I am allowed to ask for in this channel.
• 107[00:18:12] <Rojola> Is it okay to ask for you to guide me a little here?
• 108[00:18:20] <Rojola> for example, I have never used anything but passwords
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• 112[00:18:40] <Rojola> concerning fail2ban, I have successfully set that up in the past on a different server
• 113[00:18:44] <Rojola> I think I can repeat it
• 114[00:19:20] <somiaj> in debian you can just install it and it shoudl be working for ssh, If you want it to monintor other logs you'll have to configure that
• 115[00:19:35] <mutante> if the password isnt in any dictionaries you can also just ignore them.. but best is to turn off password based auth in sshd config
• 116[00:19:37] <somiaj> (such as if you have apache logins or something)
• 117[00:19:37] <BCMM> Rojola: it's ok as long as your passwords are adequately complex. and a lot of people have a poor understanding of what constitutes an adequately complex password
• 118[00:19:51] <mutante> setting up fail2ban/denyhosts adds a slight risk to lock out yourself
• 119[00:19:52] <somiaj> or at least turn it off for root at a minimium
• 120[00:19:52] <BCMM> Rojola: also, that means all passwords that can be used to log in to the system, not just the ones you regularly use
• 121[00:20:43] <Rojola> mutante, that happened to me multiple times (locking myself out) but thanks heaven my ISP assigns a new IP address to me every time I disconnect / reconnect to the internet
• 122[00:20:46] <BCMM> Rojola: but if you use an ssh key pair and disable password authentication, then you're totally proof against bruteforce
• 123[00:21:02] <Rojola> BCMM, please let us do it in a moment
• 124[00:21:07] <Rojola> I must solve something else first
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• 126[00:21:11] <Rojola> I ran a dist-upgrade
• 127[00:21:13] <Rojola> replaced-url
• 128[00:21:21] <Rojola> which version ob grub's config do I want to keep?
• 129[00:21:24] <mutante> Rojola: 4 steps here..basically.. 1) ssh-keygen to create a new key pair 2) keep the private part save locally somewhere and copy the public part to the server 3) ssh-add to load the private key locally and ssh to server... 4) if it all works.. disabled password based auth in sshd and restart it
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• 132[00:22:07] <Rojola> mutante, steps 1-3 were done when I set up the droplet on digital ocean
• 133[00:22:13] <Rojola> 4 - not sure
• 134[00:22:35] <Rojola> will filezilla know about the sshkey?
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• 137[00:23:02] <mutante> Rojola: check for "PasswordAuthentication" in /etc/ssh/sshd_config or so
• 138[00:23:31] <Rojola> thank you
• 139[00:23:36] <Rojola> which grub version do I want to keep?
• 140[00:23:40] <Rojola> I am stuck at that screen
• 141[00:23:44] <Rojola> replaced-url
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• 143[00:24:11] <mutante> Rojola: most people use an ssh agent to keep the private key loaded in the background.. then apps like filezilla dont need to know about it
• 144[00:24:20] <mutante> Rojola: that was the ssh-add part.. after that it should just work
• 145[00:24:34] *** Quits: m0u (~m0u@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 146[00:24:41] <mutante> but the alternative is to tell it specifically which key to use each time you connect
• 147[00:24:46] <Rojola> mutante, the ssh agent is a local thing?
• 148[00:24:55] <mutante> Rojola: yes, on your laptop for example
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• 150[00:24:58] * Rojola googles it
• 151[00:25:00] <Rojola> thank you mutante
• 152[00:25:01] *** Quits: sdrac8_ (~sdracu8__@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 153[00:25:28] <mutante> you're welcome
• 154[00:25:31] <Rojola> as for grub, I select "keep the local version currently installed"
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• 158[00:26:06] <mutante> sounds good.. if in doubt i would stick with whatever is the default if you just hit enter
• 159[00:27:46] <Rojola> thank you
• 160[00:27:55] <Rojola> I will be right back - I just need to focus on sandstorm for a moment
• 161[00:28:20] <mutante> i just imagine the darude youtube video when you say that, but cool
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• 166[00:31:31] <Rojola> ha!
• 167[00:31:38] <Rojola> that did not even cross my mind before
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• 169[00:31:44] <Rojola> you're right, there was this song back in the day
• 170[00:32:06] <Rojola> mutante, wasn't this the song with the melody: "dada da dadadadadada daaaa dadadaaaaa..."
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• 179[00:34:15] <Rojola1> re
• 180[00:34:21] <Rojola1> I think I got disconnected for a short moment
• 181[00:34:23] <Rojola1> sorry
• 182[00:34:34] <mutante> Rojola: i am not very good at text2melody , but yes :)
• 183[00:34:44] *** Quits: Mad`Man`Da`Lalta (~dost@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 184[00:34:49] <mutante> dada dadadadada
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• 187[00:36:23] <Rojola1> :)
• 188[00:36:24] <humpled> Ode to Joy?
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• 190[00:37:59] <karlpinc> mutante: IMO the right approach is to have a single identity, a single key, and just use that all the time.
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• 197[00:43:17] <Rojola1> I am amazed.
• 198[00:43:32] <Rojola1> getting the new server to run on DO took me less than 20 minutes
• 199[00:43:39] <Rojola1> setting up Wekan took another 5 minutes
• 200[00:43:43] <Rojola1> I am extremely happy
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• 219[00:53:17] <uio> Well, just for kicks I decided to try the /home/user/Téléchargements/firmware-9.9.0-i386-netinst.iso on the eeepc. Not working. Not impressed. I'm like 45 minutes in and it's saying that the install software step failed. So I am rerunning the step, but now it's saying /media/cdrom:Please insert the disc labeled: 'Debian GNU/Linux 9.9.0 _Stretch.... But I hadn't touched the usb. So I tried unplugging the usb and putting it back it. Stil
• 220[00:53:17] <uio> l nothing. Seriously Debian, is this for real?
• 221[00:53:25] *** Quits: dvs (~Herbert@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 222[00:53:54] <uio> So, now I'm stuck in a failed install?
• 223[00:54:17] *** Quits: nyaomi (~naomi@replaced-ip) (Quit: meow)
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• 225[00:56:34] <blackflow> uio: I thought you moved to lubuntu?
• 226[00:56:46] *** Joins: dvs (~Herbert@replaced-ip)
• 227[00:57:34] <uio> blackflow, Oh I did, but wanted to give the non-free route a try. Now I think it hard to not see that Debian has some issues.
• 228[00:57:44] <humpled> heheh
• 229[00:57:55] <jmcnaught> uio: how did you copy the image to the USB stick?
• 230[00:58:02] <uio> dd
• 231[00:58:23] <uio> I got like halfway through the install process though!
• 232[00:58:32] <uio> I guess that's positive.
• 233[00:58:47] <jmcnaught> uio: did you copy the image to the device or to a partition?
• 234[00:58:58] <humpled> but then it chroots and wham, forgets where the drive is mounted
• 235[00:59:03] <uio> Although before I was actually able to get an os.
• 236[00:59:29] <uio> sudo dd if=/home/user/Téléchargements/firmware-9.9.0-i386-netinst.iso of=/dev/sdb bs=4M status=progress && sync
• 237[00:59:54] <dvs> uio, you don't need sync for dd
• 238[01:00:04] <uio> dvs cool.
• 239[01:00:33] <uio> Like, honestly, is it just me, or should this not be happening?
• 240[01:01:04] <uio> I did the same thing for Lubuntu and had zero issues. Why is Debian having such a hard time?
• 241[01:01:16] <uio> Can't blame it on the firmware this time.
• 242[01:01:31] <uio> So abort install?
• 243[01:01:34] <jmcnaught> uio: are you here to troubleshoot or complain?
• 244[01:02:07] <uio> I'm here for the former but I think that the latter is well merited.
• 245[01:02:26] *** Quits: Dilruba (~Dilruba@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 246[01:02:49] <humpled> you can complain all you like but it won't make a blind bit of difference to anything
• 247[01:03:21] <jmcnaught> The more you complain the less people feel like helping. Do you have another USB stick you could try?
• 248[01:03:31] *** Quits: mikevanbike (~luci@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 249[01:03:40] <karlpinc> dvs: When is sync called for these days?
• 250[01:03:49] <dvs> karlpinc, cp\
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• 252[01:04:08] <karlpinc> dvs: Ok. Thanks.
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• 254[01:04:14] <dvs> np
• 255[01:04:17] <uio> jmcnaught, I may have other usbs, but I need to understand why Debian needs a different usn when other distros don't.
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• 259[01:04:50] <jmcnaught> uio: troubleshooting involves eliminating possibilities. Anyways good luck.
• 260[01:04:52] <karlpinc> dvs: (I always wind up umount-ing after the cp-s that I care about that would warrent a sync.)
• 261[01:05:25] <uio> jmcnaught, Right, I agree, I just don't see how the usb could be faulty if other distros can run off it.
• 262[01:06:29] <dvs> karlpinc, if you are copying an ISO image to a mounted USB then you're doing it wrong.
• 263[01:06:31] <karlpinc> uio: Is this the stretch (stable) installer? (Just curious.)
• 264[01:06:41] <karlpinc> dvs: Nope. Just a file.
• 265[01:06:45] <uio> jmcnaught, I'm hesitant to just 'try' things because I did that for seven hours today with Debian, so I'm trying to think things out before going too far.
• 266[01:06:52] <blackflow> uio: btw why are you bothering with the firmware iso? you installed debian already and have access to console.
• 267[01:07:10] <uio> karlpinc, I used the non-free cd.
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• 270[01:08:04] <uio> blackflow, Oh, the idea was thrown around here in a 'Don't try the non-free iso on a laptop' way, so I thought, why not, let's go. Access was onlt via external monitor.
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• 273[01:09:04] <blackflow> uio: uh no, you got it all wrong. that iso is needed only if you need firmware during the installation. it contains absolutely no additional magick than non-free/firmware packages you can install regularly
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• 275[01:09:40] <karlpinc> !firmware images
• 276[01:09:40] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from <replaced-url
• 277[01:09:51] <uio> blackflow, Tell greycat that too.
• 278[01:09:56] <tds> uio - in the past I've seen the installer fail to mount /media/cdrom properly, just dropping to a shell and mounting by hand sorts that
• 279[01:10:20] <blackflow> greycat knows that, but he didn't know that you installed debian just fine, and that it runs just fine _except_ with display through the wrong VGA port on your eeepc.
• 280[01:10:23] <karlpinc> The above installs non-free firmware when needed.
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• 284[01:11:19] <uio> But it the end there was no solution. That's what gets me. Lubuntu beat Debian at that for sure.
• 285[01:11:33] <blackflow> then install lubuntu and stop wasting your time :)
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• 287[01:12:44] <uio> blackflow, That's what I'm doing now. Preparing the flash drive. But I must admit that this failed install made me lose a lot of esteem for Debian.
• 288[01:13:04] <uio> I mean, sure maybe one has to put in a bit more time, but like seven hours??
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• 292[01:13:13] <humpled> seven?
• 293[01:13:17] <humpled> more like 14
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• 295[01:13:21] <uio> eight.
• 296[01:13:26] <humpled> and that's just since i got in
• 297[01:13:27] <uio> Oh, I took a break.
• 298[01:13:53] <blackflow> uio: you're complaining about a very rare and edge case, and greycat already explained to you why that is. if you're gonna judge entire distro based on such a single edge case, then you have a problem.
• 299[01:13:55] <uio> Right, I think a good distro shouldn't require that. I would'nt recommend such a distro to friend!
• 300[01:14:08] <humpled> good
• 301[01:14:49] <uio> blackflow, Our judgements come from our experiences.
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• 303[01:15:11] <blackflow> experience with one single eeepcs having video output through wrong port.... dude...
• 304[01:15:35] <uio> blackflow, Then why can Lubuntu do it so easily???
• 305[01:15:42] <blackflow> at any rate, this is becoming very annoying. good luck with lubuntu. move on, stop wasting your time.
• 306[01:15:45] <uio> Can't Debian get its shit together too?
• 307[01:16:04] <blackflow> no. bye now.
• 308[01:16:19] <humpled> run lspci -nnk | grep -iA3 network or similar in lubuntu and we might find out :D
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• 311[01:17:17] <humpled> errm, VGA not network, whatever
• 312[01:17:42] <uio> I love how when Debian doesn't work the problem is never Debian.
• 313[01:18:10] <jezebel> uio… debian is what you make it, if you believe it is debian at fault, feel free to file a bug report
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• 316[01:18:38] <blackflow> humpled: *ubuntu adds a lot of "SAUCE" patches to the kernel in order to support a variety of consumer hardware. this comes at a price which uio will find out with one of the next few updates which regularly break boot.
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• 318[01:19:25] <jezebel> it wont hold your hands the way some distros will, but you get a lot of freedom in return - you make your system the way you want
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• 321[01:20:49] <jezebel> there are more barebones distros out there, but debian strikes the right balance for me, your ideals for a system may differ
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• 324[01:21:12] <jezebel> distro hop until you find what you like!
• 325[01:21:21] <uio> jezebel, My ideal was: 'boots with display'.
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• 327[01:21:46] <jezebel> define display
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• 329[01:22:03] <blackflow> jezebel: this whole hubbub is over default output on their eeepc being the VGA port instead of the built-in screen. and I'll bet ya a trainful of cookies that they never tried to force default device via xorg.conf, as has been suggested before.
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• 331[01:22:50] <blackflow> xorg.conf, kernel video= cmdline option, xrandr hack, whatever... there's a number of possibilities, one just has to find out which one is specific to their situation.
• 332[01:23:12] <mutante> karlpinc: yea, i didn't actually suggest to have multiple identities, did i
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• 336[01:24:54] <blackflow> neway, I'm out, EOD
• 337[01:25:19] <uio> Well, cheers. Thanks for trying to help and I still have Debian on my thinkpad.
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• 349[01:34:24] <zoredache> is the buster mini.iso netboot installer supposed to just give you a grub prompt?
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• 354[01:37:25] <zoredache> If I try to boot the mini.iso on a hyper-v (gen2) VM and it just drops directly into grub prompt
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• 361[01:44:51] <donofrio_> well I'm sending this from the g5 ;) replaced-url
• 362[01:45:02] <donofrio_> replaced-url
• 363[01:45:11] <donofrio_> doesn't want to install firefox
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• 365[01:45:33] <met> congrats, looks like you got it running
• 366[01:45:46] <met> try firefox-esr
• 367[01:45:52] <donofrio_> I did ;) except I have *zero* gui webbrowser
• 368[01:45:56] <donofrio_> ok I'll try that
• 369[01:46:38] <donofrio_> replaced-url
• 370[01:46:40] <donofrio_> ;(
• 371[01:47:37] <donofrio_> replaced-url
• 372[01:47:45] <donofrio_> opps mispaste
• 373[01:48:31] <donofrio_> replaced-url
• 374[01:48:57] <donofrio_> nice to see you folk have it updated (weather was broken on ubuntu 16.04 lol)
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• 380[01:51:01] <met> huh, you're running sid :o
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• 385[01:53:14] <rocketmagnet> hello everyone
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• 387[01:53:29] <rocketmagnet> i have a strange problem, i just did a reboot and now he's not enterin X11 (debian with lightdm), i get the error message: snd_hda_codec_hdmi ndaudioC1D0 HDMI: invalid ELD data.... it's a dualboot and windows works normaly, what is heppening ??
• 388[01:53:40] <donofrio_> replaced-url
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• 392[01:53:56] <donofrio_> E: Package 'libgcrypt11-dev' has no installation candidate
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• 395[01:55:46] <met> ,v libgcrypt11-dev
• 396[01:55:47] <judd> Package: libgcrypt11-dev on amd64 -- jessie: 1.5.4-3+really1.6.3-2+deb8u4; jessie-security: 1.5.4-3+really1.6.3-2+deb8u5; stretch: 1.5.4-3+really1.7.6-2+deb9u3; stretch-security: 1.5.4-3+really1.7.6-2+deb9u3
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• 401[01:56:28] <donofrio_> what about ppc64
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• 404[01:57:18] <met> maybe there's an arch switch for the bot
• 405[01:57:24] <met> ,v libgcrypt11-dev ppc64
• 406[01:57:26] <judd> Package: libgcrypt11-dev on amd64 -- jessie: 1.5.4-3+really1.6.3-2+deb8u4; jessie-security: 1.5.4-3+really1.6.3-2+deb8u5; stretch: 1.5.4-3+really1.7.6-2+deb9u3; stretch-security: 1.5.4-3+really1.7.6-2+deb9u3
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• 408[01:57:32] <met> ,v libgcrypt11-dev:ppc64
• 409[01:57:33] <judd> No package named 'libgcrypt11-dev:ppc64' was found in amd64.
• 410[01:57:37] <met> sigh
• 411[01:58:02] <met> looks like you have to use w3m||links||lynx packages.debian.org/libgcrypt11-dev
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• 414[01:58:16] <winny> maybe you mean ppc64el
• 415[01:58:25] <donofrio_> I'm using lynx right now but whoa
• 416[01:58:25] <met> why are you running unstable and not testing btw?
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• 418[01:58:56] <donofrio_> I dunno I'll install whatever version I should be at just figured sid would have newest firefox ubuntu 16.04 has old firefox
• 419[01:58:58] <winny> oh donofrio_ are you running old stable?
• 420[01:59:00] <jmcnaught> donofrio_ is using debian-ports which is only available as unstable
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• 422[01:59:25] <winny> i'm wondering because i didn't see ppc64 or ppc for anything other than old debian releases
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• 424[01:59:50] <winny> (i'd like to be proven wrong though)
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• 431[02:03:39] <winny> oh wait... i could have installed sid?! Ugh. Wish I had known that when I tried to get a modern linux on my own imac g5 a week ago.
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• 433[02:05:03] <rocketmagnet> nobody an idea what the problem might be ??
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• 436[02:07:00] <jmcnaught> rocketmagnet: I doubt that the error message you included about a sound module is the cause of X11 not starting. Could you put /var/log/Xorg.0.log on replaced-url
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• 440[02:08:03] <jmcnaught> donofrio_: you should probably move your support questions to #debianppc or #debian-ports (both on irc.oftc.net) as unstable is not supported in this channel, and I doubt debian-ports should be either.
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• 443[02:09:23] <met> donofrio, sid is called 'unstable' for a reason -- try running testing with firefox pulled in from sid
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• 445[02:09:42] <jmcnaught> rocketmagnet: actually I see you're also in ##linux so please just continue there, cross posting is considered rude in this channel.
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• 464[02:17:16] <rocketmagnet> jmcnaught, i can just swith to the console, how can i paste the content in the console ?
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• 466[02:18:38] <mutante> ctrl + shift + v ? middle mouse button?
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• 478[02:24:37] <donofrio_> any hope ://paste.debian.net/1089566/
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• 526[03:01:57] <donofrio_> remmina segfaults ;(
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• 618[04:03:49] <teksimian> just upgraded to buster. gotta admit it's pretty slick.
• 619[04:04:02] <Psi-Jack> Does it really bust your hide? ;)
• 620[04:04:18] <teksimian> like i cant even tell you
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• 634[04:18:18] <rocketmagnet> hi everyon, i have a strnge problém, when i start linux normaly he starts to hang when he tried to starx, but when i go into rescue mode an switch to my user for X11 and use startx it's working
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• 636[04:20:02] <altker128> rocketmagnet: Check /var/log/Xorg.0.log
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• 639[04:21:27] <rocketmagnet> altker128: replaced-url
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• 645[04:25:37] <altker128> rocketmagnet: Sorry URL is not resolving for me
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• 651[04:31:42] <altker128> rocketmagnet: Can you try pastebin.com or something?
• 652[04:32:15] <rocketmagnet> yes,sec
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• 730[05:23:36] <finn0> I'm looking for a program which can create an encrypted backup periodically. Any suggestion will be greatly appreciated.
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• 736[05:29:07] <somiaj> why not just backup to an encrypted filesystem?
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• 741[05:35:47] <finn0> somiaj: That's good idea. But may I want my data to transfer someone else or carry sensitive(mainly some keys and certificate) with me or store at cloud. So, encrypted version of that data would be much safer.
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• 751[05:42:38] <jelly> finn0: restic? duplicity? Most modern backup tools assume you can't trust the store and do encryption of data-at-rest
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• 763[05:58:31] <finn0> jelly: Thanks, What do you suggest if have to backup my private keys and certificates to cloud service? Is this a good practice? My private keys are already password protected so, is it necessary to encrypt it once again before storing it to cloud?
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• 767[06:02:00] <finn0> Any suggestion would be welcome.
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• 779[06:18:44] <altker128> finn0: Well, you can rsync the data, zip it / 7-zip it and AES encrypt it
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• 800[06:41:19] <finn0> altker128: Thanks, On Internet I found many tutorials to backup data using rsync and it's much more preferable among sysadmins. I would prefer backup program which keep files intact (means store as collection of file).
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• 847[07:07:27] <finn0> !irclog
• 848[07:07:27] <dpkg> from memory, irclog is #debian on <freenode> is logged at replaced-url
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• 868[07:16:24] <blackflow> finn0: how much are you willing to pay for that backup?
• 869[07:16:38] <finn0> I'll out for some hours. Seems like this channel neither have support for Matrix IRC Bridge nor log is properly maintained.
• 870[07:17:00] <finn0> blackflow: (pay) means?
• 871[07:17:28] <blackflow> pesos. monies. cash.
• 872[07:18:04] <finn0> blackflow: why?
• 873[07:18:25] <blackflow> I ask because I've found that backups should be a DIY job. If you want something done, do it right. Rent a server, stick ZFS on LUKS on that, run your backups via rsync over ssh.
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• 877[07:20:45] <blackflow> and also if data is sensitive, stay away from public clouds.
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• 880[07:21:57] <finn0> blackflow: Okay. But I will store my backup on nextcloud instance.
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• 884[07:22:55] <blackflow> finn0: does nextcloud support ZFS or BTRFS on LUKS?
• 885[07:23:20] <Psi-Jack> Nextcloud is a web application. So... Yeah.
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• 887[07:23:30] <finn0> blackflow: yep.
• 888[07:23:33] <Psi-Jack> It, itself, doesn't care about the underlyng filesystem.
• 889[07:24:25] <finn0> blackflow: NextCloud will also encrypt my data using a key which generates from my password.
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• 891[07:24:53] <finn0> *is generated
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• 894[07:26:53] <finn0> blackflow: Anyway rent a server is not good solution for just storing couple of GiB backup data.
• 895[07:27:00] <blackflow> finn0: does that allow rsync-like delta backups? automatic detection of changed files, so only those are incrementally backed up? maybe this is slightly becomng offtopic here, but let's say it's powered by debian, so... ontopic :)
• 896[07:27:23] <Psi-Jack> borgbackup is a better backup solution anyway
• 897[07:29:08] <blackflow> finn0: that's why I asked how much are you willing to spend. you can get a dedicated machine for 30-40 €/mo, with at least two disks, so you RAID that up, put debian on ZFS on LUKS there and you own the full stack. you simply can't trust public clouds.
• 898[07:29:09] <finn0> How does people read message when they are not online this channel? I've to go somewhere and IRC log is not properly maintained.
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• 903[07:34:17] <finn0> blackflow: I'm pretty much new to nextcloud so, I'm not suitable person answer your question. NextCloud is pretty much like Google drive and some features can be extensible.
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• 905[07:35:20] <blackflow> finn0: yes but nextcloud is an application. and what I'm talking about is _where_ you will store your backups.
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• 907[07:36:10] <finn0> On replaced-url
• 908[07:36:11] <blackflow> if the data is sensitve and you value it, it won't be stored in a public cloud (VPS, "cloud servers", ...), but on a dedicated machine under your control.
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• 914[07:39:30] <patterson> I encrypt my breakfast
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• 916[07:39:57] <finn0> blackflow: Yes, I understand my threat model.
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• 920[07:40:51] <blackflow> finn0: it's not just threat model. by setting up ZFS or BTRFS yourself, you have some level of guarantee against bitrot. Does "cloud.disroot.org" guarantee that?
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• 924[07:45:03] <finn0> blackflow: I've ask them on their matrix channel #disroot. How they are managing their infrastructure?
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• 928[07:50:07] <finn0> blackflow: I heard that lots of people are switching to BTRFS and Does BTRFS is more secure than EXT4? Isn't full disk encryption sufficient?
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• 931[07:50:26] <Psi-Jack> Switching TO? I'd switch the heck AWAY from. LOL
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• 933[07:52:13] <blackflow> finn0: sufficient for what? also, btrfs or even better zfs, are not about security but about data integrity. ZFS and BTRFS are the only two filesystems that run data checksums, at the moment, and are capable of on-the-fly autocorrection of corrupt data (on read), with sufficient redundancy (RAID1 / copies >= 2)
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• 935[07:54:09] <jaggz> $ perldoc -f sprintf
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• 941[07:56:34] <finn0> blackflow: whether my data is safe if I've used good cipher for encryption?
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• 943[07:57:16] <blackflow> finn0: that's just one part of the security equation. the other parts are trusting the provider, the connection, the software.
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• 946[07:58:10] <blackflow> the _best_ thing you can do is a dedicated machine with full stack in control by you. it is not absolute security (that doesn't even exist), but is the best you can do as all of the trust that can be _chosen_, is on you yourself.
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• 958[08:02:43] <finn0> blackflow: Disroot is currently my best possible trusted provider and although I'm not happy with their all decision about how they manage their infrastucture? I'm pretty much sure my all connection is secure. NextCloud is an open source software and go through many security auditing(replaced-url
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• 960[08:03:55] <finn0> blackflow: Okay, thanks.
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• 965[08:07:03] <blackflow> finn0: if it's not encrypted on the _client_ side, ther is no encryption.
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• 985[08:15:40] <finn0> blackflow: On their documentation they written that all data will encrypted with key which will extracted from users password. But admin can only see the file's name, its size and its mime-type. But, I've some doubts they do have access to my password. I think it better store multiple copies these data in some flash/hard drives.
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• 991[08:19:38] <finn0> Please send messages after an hour if they are for me. I'm out for an hour.
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• 1034[08:51:50] <Th3D4rkL0rd> Hey guys
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• 1037[08:52:28] <Th3D4rkL0rd> I wanted to add a random tidbit, the debian guide for installing Nvidia drivers seems a bit vague on it
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• 1043[08:53:57] <Th3D4rkL0rd> I simply installed the legacy 390 driver and its depends. and it didn't mess anything up on my optimus laptop. Installed the proprietary nvidia drivers flawlessly and I didn't have to fiddle with any xorg settings.
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• 1168[10:00:21] <rdz> hey all. would I have to expect many problems when making python3 the default pyhton on a Debian buster system?
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• 1173[10:03:32] <humpled> if you want python3 to be the default you use when you write and run your own python that's fine, if you want all the services and apps on your system to be ready to use python3, you might have problems
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• 1175[10:04:16] <themill> rdz: there is no such thing as a default python
• 1176[10:04:21] <rdz> humpled, do they usually specify what python they want or call they simply /usr/bin/python'
• 1177[10:04:34] <themill> (There is a default Python 2 and a default Python 3; see PEP394)
• 1178[10:04:55] <rdz> themill, what is /usr/bin/python then?
• 1179[10:05:13] <themill> that is supposed to be Python 2
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• 1181[10:05:37] <themill> it is everywhere except one distro that decide to blow up the world and didn't care about any form of compatibility
• 1182[10:05:47] <rdz> themill, will that be python2 in thousand years still?
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• 1184[10:05:57] <themill> no, it will just disappear
• 1185[10:06:10] <rdz> ok.. thanks
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• 1187[10:07:06] <rdz> i would like ansible to use python3 and it is actually capable to do so, but it says no python find on Debian buster machine
• 1188[10:07:12] <rdz> but python3 is there, just not python
• 1189[10:07:24] <themill> ansible works just fine with Python 3 in buster
• 1190[10:07:36] <rdz> since ansible is able to use python3, i don't want to install python2
• 1191[10:07:49] <themill> I bet other things still need Python 2
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• 1194[10:08:10] <rdz> i'd rather install it when it is actually needed
• 1195[10:08:17] <rdz> but how can i tell ansible to use python3 then?
• 1196[10:08:40] <rdz> hm.. not a debian question anymore.. anyway.. thanks for sharing your knowledge
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• 1198[10:09:19] <themill> how are you running ansible?
• 1199[10:09:57] <rdz> themill, i am running ansible-playbook -l busterhost maplay.yml
• 1200[10:10:10] <themill> from?
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• 1202[10:10:18] <rdz> from Debian stretch host
• 1203[10:11:18] <themill> ansible_python_interpreter
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• 1205[10:11:38] <rdz> themill, ok.. i'll make sure to set that..
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• 1207[10:12:07] <rdz> will have to figure out a way to use python3 only on buster hosts
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• 1209[10:12:32] <rdz> besides stretch, we still run some jessie hosts
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• 1213[10:15:39] <noodlepie> Well, hello, guys! How doing?
• 1214[10:16:11] <patterson> Sounds like Hawaiian crank
• 1215[10:16:20] <patterson> Noodle Pie?
• 1216[10:16:34] <patterson> Is that NerdShark?
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• 1218[10:17:23] <patterson> I didn't regiter Strozzapreti if you want it
• 1219[10:17:26] <patterson> s
• 1220[10:18:02] <patterson> \Such a wrong room. Honest
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• 1224[10:18:28] <patterson> I'll just go sit in the corner shall I
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• 1227[10:19:30] <halt> HI All, I'm running Debian workload in AWS and yet again today I had to face the falling behind with mainstream, namely this time it's the replaced-url
• 1228[10:19:39] <halt> While I do appreciate the rock stable and handy Debian, and I would love to keep it as my number one go to distro even in Cloud, it's getting more and more difficult to backport all the tiny bits and bots to keep it on the same base level as AWS Linux 2 or Ubuntu, so I'm asking the tricky question, within the limits of the strict requirements of Debian what can be done to overcome this limitation.
• 1229[10:19:56] <halt> I mean I can anytime just fork, and add the missing pieces and call it debian-aws and there go wild, but maybe there is a less distinctive option, like create just an extra section in the repo next to main/non-free for aws, or have a separated repo, maintained by AWS, don't know just trying to make it right... Any ideas ?
• 1230[10:20:00] *** Quits: mayurvpatil (~mayurvpat@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 1231[10:20:15] <themill> tl;dr
• 1232[10:22:12] <pyfgcr> halt: which kind of missing pieces are you refering to?
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• 1238[10:25:17] <halt> SSM agent, AWS Connect Agent, AWS inspector, EC2 Instance Connect, CloudWatch Logs Agent
• 1239[10:25:38] <halt> I wrote connect twice ..
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• 1246[10:28:58] <lope> I nice'd ksmtuned to 19. Is that ok? Am I a bad person?
• 1247[10:29:22] <halt> themill: I understand, it's more then a thousand characters, I wouldn't read it either, but if you can sum up a complex issue in much less pls do.
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• 1249[10:30:34] <themill> It looks like "I'm looking for $version of $package for $release of Debian", but I have no idea from what you've actually written or from that URL
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• 1254[10:33:04] <pyfgcr> halt: sorry, I reformulate: is the problem the fact theta the debian package is too outdated, or that those are not debian packages at all?
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• 1265[10:37:24] <halt> themill: Well almost, AWS as "small" cloud provider is providing packages for Debian as well, to run Debian within their own network nicely, Debian is providing disk images (AMI's) for AWS users, but non of the packages which AWS is providing are actually included, there due to the license and other policies of Debian
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• 1267[10:37:52] <themill> well if Debian isn't allowed to distribute it, it's not going to be in the AMI
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• 1274[10:44:27] <halt> hmm I'm not sure that "Debian isn't allowed to distribute it" is actually true, even if it's not in the AMI that's fine as long as it's accessible, you have userdata, and cfn-init and etc to make it still accessible
• 1275[10:44:52] <pyfgcr> halt: so where are you supposed to get them from, according to amazon?
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• 1280[10:46:51] <halt> Github, Pypy, AWS Download link, take your pick, some here some there
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• 1284[10:47:12] <apollo13> halt: cn't you use your own AMI's?
• 1285[10:47:16] <apollo13> -'
• 1286[10:47:23] <halt> SSM is in GitHub for example
• 1287[10:48:36] <halt> apollo13: of course I can, but why would I ? I use the stock Debian AMI, and I just have an ever growing userdata section, which is getting not just big but ugly
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• 1289[10:49:25] <apollo13> why you would? apparantly because of the "novel" of problems you wrote above :D
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• 1294[10:51:47] <halt> If my car is reversed back to a garage, then I wouldn't keep it driving backwards, even if I can adjust to it, as I have mirrors, and maybe even a camera at the back, I just turn around and drive it right, I think our car is backwards now, and trying to understand why we don't turn around
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• 1296[10:53:06] <pyfgcr> I'm not sue what you would like to have
• 1297[10:53:25] <themill> halt: step 1 would be to actually describe what is wrong. I *still* don't know what you don't have
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• 1299[10:54:18] <x10> software not included in default images?
• 1300[10:54:44] <halt> themill: In short and general terms , I don't have a standard way to use Debian within AWS
• 1301[10:54:57] <themill> general terms are the problem
• 1302[10:55:09] <pyfgcr> halt: what do you mean by "standard"
• 1303[10:55:34] <themill> halt: does this software have a name? is in debian? is it the wrong version?
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• 1305[10:55:54] <substreamz> Hello
• 1306[10:55:59] <nojake> just keep driving backwards.
• 1307[10:56:24] <nojake> put the car into the garage.
• 1308[10:56:42] <substreamz> Guys how can i get list of all freenode channels?
• 1309[10:56:45] <themill> halt: pretend that this has something to do with software release and that things need to be actionable not vague and general
• 1310[10:56:50] <nojake> /list
• 1311[10:57:13] <themill> substreamz: there's 54k channels, you probably don't want them all. /msg alis help
• 1312[10:57:34] <nojake> /list *keyword* --for filter
• 1313[10:58:06] <themill> /list is often a great way of getting disconnected
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• 1317[10:58:51] <halt> themill: I wrote general, because the problem is coming up with all new AWS OS tools, new services, new integrations come, and Debian falling behind, but if that helps, let's pick a specific example of the SSM agent
• 1318[10:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1510
• 1319[10:59:33] <halt> a standard solution would be, either having it installed by default, or having a documented, recommended, way to install it
• 1320[10:59:38] <nojake> why is node on stretch only version 4.x or so?
• 1321[10:59:38] <themill> real tool name, link to source code, rfp bug?
• 1322[11:00:02] <cupcake90> I think debian offering latest tools
• 1323[11:00:10] <themill> nojake: that would have been the current version when stretch was released
• 1324[11:00:13] <nojake> i mean.. i can imagine there is a reason beyond not having reviewed newer versions.
• 1325[11:00:30] <nojake> themill: but other packages get updated too.. no?
• 1326[11:00:33] <themill> no
• 1327[11:00:43] <noodlepie> Is GNU Linux serving you well? - I love it - I run replaced-url
• 1328[11:00:43] <noodlepie> gre
• 1329[11:00:43] <noodlepie> at!<noodlepie> I even installed Debian on my psychiatrist's computer - he wanted to try it and he managed to install the free WiFi driver for his hardware - Impressive! I want to install Linux/Kubernetes on all the UK, National Health Service machines and use the cluster to build replaced-url
• 1330[11:00:48] <noodlepie> encryption source code.
• 1331[11:00:50] <pyfgcr> halt: so you would it to be included in debian?
• 1332[11:01:07] <themill> dpkg: tell halt about rfp
• 1333[11:01:18] <nojake> themill: can u explain why i get volatile and the updates for stretch .. and not for node?
• 1334[11:01:21] <halt> might be that I can just make up a aws-deb-helper package, which just give you option to install SSM
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• 1336[11:01:41] <themill> nojake: that's only security updates
• 1337[11:01:53] <nojake> hm.
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• 1339[11:02:36] <pyfgcr> so you are willing to write the debian package yourself?
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• 1341[11:02:43] <pyfgcr> halt: ^
• 1342[11:02:51] <nojake> what when security updates are part of newer versions?
• 1343[11:02:55] <nojake> like in a browser.
• 1344[11:02:56] <ayekat> volatile also isn't a thing anymore, IIRC
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• 1346[11:03:02] <themill> nojake: there's a newer version in stretch-backports (but not incredibly new tbh, node is too difficult to maintain and backport)
• 1347[11:03:14] <nojake> are you saying ppl use a 2 year old browser version by default?
• 1348[11:03:50] <apollo13> no, browsers are updated .)
• 1349[11:04:24] <themill> nojake: firefox gets security updates
• 1350[11:04:35] <apollo13> also feature updates afaik
• 1351[11:04:42] <apollo13> ie new ESR releases
• 1352[11:04:43] <themill> only from one esr to the next
• 1353[11:04:51] <halt> pyfgcr: absolutely, as long as the approach is accepted, and works with the community
• 1354[11:04:57] <themill> and only when that has to be done as part of a security update
• 1355[11:05:06] <nojake> i don't think u can get security updates without the other features.
• 1356[11:05:30] <themill> nojake: yes you can
• 1357[11:05:36] <nojake> but even if so. the reasoning is already proven false.
• 1358[11:05:42] <nojake> themill: you can't./
• 1359[11:05:45] <blackflow> what!
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• 1361[11:06:17] <nojake> in theory you can. but it's just not what happens.
• 1362[11:06:19] <themill> nojake: so you can keep saying that as long as you like, and I'll just install the security updates
• 1363[11:06:26] <nojake> i keep saying nothing.
• 1364[11:06:33] <nojake> i ask simple questions.
• 1365[11:06:43] <halt> pyfgcr: but last time I seen the SSM trying to make it to the mainline repos, it was turned down, as even thought it's OSS but it's not free to use, or something similar, and I expect that the same applies for the inspector and etc etc
• 1366[11:06:46] <nojake> node is 4.x
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• 1369[11:07:15] <HicksD> nojake: Packages do in general just get security specific fixes backported to them, with no new features. Some packages are more hassle to do that with than it's worth, browsers for example, so they tend to just track the ESR releases which are pretty much just security fixes until a major new ESR occurs.
• 1370[11:07:18] <themill> nojake: and I've explained why
• 1371[11:07:38] <pyfgcr> halt: if you are willing to write te package yourself, there is no need to have it en the main repository
• 1372[11:07:55] <HicksD> Anyone that uses node in debian that I know of, just installs a vm and then installs node from upstream via adding the apt-repo. It's the path of least resistance for web dev imo
• 1373[11:07:55] <nojake> hicksd.. are packages on release reviewed by some debian team?
• 1374[11:08:16] <pyfgcr> halt: but maybe you can still file a bug report to the maintainers of the nonfree repo
• 1375[11:08:20] <themill> nojake: you might need to explain what you mean by 'release'
• 1376[11:08:21] <HicksD> There's a variety of descriptions of how all the repos and teams work on the debian site.
• 1377[11:08:54] <nojake> when including newer versions of packages. like for instance node.
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• 1379[11:09:12] <nojake> themill: strech jessy etc.
• 1380[11:09:24] <nojake> its the context of our talk.
• 1381[11:09:27] <themill> are you asking how a Debian release is made?
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• 1383[11:09:33] <nojake> sh.
• 1384[11:09:44] <themill> I have no idea what you're actually asking
• 1385[11:09:46] <nojake> let me talk to the other girls.
• 1386[11:09:54] <nojake> thats ok then.
• 1387[11:10:01] <ayekat> wow, way to ask for support...
• 1388[11:10:04] <nojake> you have not to answer the.
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• 1390[11:10:14] <themill> Try asking questions in a way that the reader has some chance.
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• 1392[11:10:58] <themill> Having to decipher the question gets pretty old and tends not to lead to the answers you were wanting anyway.
• 1393[11:11:19] <nojake> the reader would have some chance if you wouldn't just spam the chat superpendantic polemic complexity. :)
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• 1395[11:11:44] <themill> Understanding that you're not actually interested in the answer helps too.
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• 1405[11:18:22] <halt> pyfgcr: I might just need to take the bullet and finish my glid project and submit that to debian as well ... that would solve this ( as well )
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• 1408[11:19:37] <pyfgcr> halt: if you are sarcastic, I didn't get it
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• 1414[11:21:53] <halt> pyfgcr: not at all, I'm playing with the idea of Generic Linux Installer Database (glid) for a while so maybe that way I solve this problem as well, as many other ( It's on GitHub if you interested )
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• 1429[11:33:43] <halt> btw if anyone around here can access the official Debian image "sell" statistics for the AWS Marketplace, I would be very much interested that how much this is an issue only for me
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• 1535[12:34:18] <lbr> Hi. Anyone using Anaconda on Debian? So far so good, no issues with Python shipped via apt?
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• 1569[13:05:56] <darxmurf> hi all
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• 1571[13:07:13] <darxmurf> is it possible to split a long grep patern into multiple lines? in order to make the script a bit more readable
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• 1584[13:15:07] <Logg> darxmurf, try a \
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• 1587[13:15:43] <darxmurf> tried already :D
• 1588[13:16:04] <Logg> :D
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• 1598[13:23:43] <humpled> how could that happen?
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• 1601[13:24:38] <darxmurf> replaced-url
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• 1608[13:30:28] <humpled> not sure why there are extra quotes in your split version, i'm not an expert here though
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• 1610[13:31:01] <humpled> also there's a hanging bracket on your first line
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• 1704[14:24:51] <tachikomas> Hello debian channel, i would like to execute a script in my background each time that i ssh a server, using the hostname of the server i am reaching as a parameter. How can i do that ?
• 1705[14:24:52] <karlpinc> darxmurf: You can with python and I think pcre (perl) expressions, but not traditional regexps. So use grep -P.
• 1706[14:25:27] <tachikomas> i would like not to create a wrapper around ssh if possible
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• 1708[14:25:44] <karlpinc> tachikomas: Executing on the local or remote end?
• 1709[14:25:49] <tachikomas> local
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• 1714[14:27:18] <karlpinc> tachikomas: How about using a shell alias?
• 1715[14:27:35] <tachikomas> for what ?
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• 1717[14:28:58] <tachikomas> what i would like to do is ssh somehost and my somehost is given as a parameter for a script each time.
• 1718[14:29:04] <tachikomas> and all the thing to be called by ssh
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• 1720[14:29:52] <apathor> tachikomas: write a script named 'ssh' that does whatever then execs /usr/bin/ssh
• 1721[14:30:21] <tachikomas> thats a bit dirty no ? There is no other way ?
• 1722[14:30:24] <hwm4rgs> gonna be tricky reliably getting the hostname from the ssh command
• 1723[14:30:31] <apathor> passing along all arguments not consumed by your part of the script
• 1724[14:30:57] <tachikomas> i would really like to avoid wrapping ssh
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• 1726[14:31:05] <humpled> but
• 1727[14:31:15] <nojake> thats what u want though.
• 1728[14:31:15] <hwm4rgs> i doubt ssh has "execute this before connecting" as a feature
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• 1730[14:31:34] <tachikomas> there is an option called LocalCommand
• 1731[14:31:40] <tachikomas> but i didnt find anything better than that
• 1732[14:31:53] <hwm4rgs> that sounds exactly like what you want
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• 1734[14:32:09] <nojake> u want to execute 2 commands as one? that's a script. (alias was proposed as well)
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• 1737[14:32:52] <nojake> or say how u would even notice its not a script.
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• 1740[14:33:07] <hwm4rgs> tachikomas: replaced-url
• 1741[14:33:35] <hwm4rgs> I think there's a variable %H or so that gives you hostname
• 1742[14:33:49] <nojake> or a function.
• 1743[14:34:18] <nojake> but i suggest not to name it ssh. it will mess things up at some point or other.
• 1744[14:34:26] <tachikomas> So i have to use localcommand then :D
• 1745[14:34:29] <tachikomas> Thanks
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• 1749[14:34:38] <hwm4rgs> that's one option, yes
• 1750[14:34:40] <tachikomas> i will not use a script for that
• 1751[14:34:42] <nojake> that guy.
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• 1822[15:18:55] <Guest121> caution : the most spectificated IT guy in the world just stepped in
• 1823[15:19:16] <greycat> This thing again...
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• 1876[15:45:02] <azy> how do i know what processes am i meant to have running? it was kinda intuitive under windows, you could spot bs.exe that was running in the background with ctrlaltdelete, but im not sure where to start with linux processes
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• 1879[15:45:12] <greycat> Experience.
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• 1882[15:45:37] <Psi-Jack> It was never really "intuitive" on Windows either. heh
• 1883[15:45:49] <greycat> You can look at the process list with nobody logged in through the GUI, just root on the console (or ssh) to get a "base line".
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• 1888[15:46:47] <azy> hm good idea
• 1889[15:47:03] <han-solo> ps -u <user> -o pid,command # ? :)
• 1890[15:47:25] <han-solo> meant to have running :/
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• 1894[15:50:13] <GenTooMan> hmmm this is a bit strange, I did "apt-get install python3-pip" which said "python3-pip is already the newest version (9.0.1-2+deb9u1)" great then I did "pip3 install -f replaced-url
• 1895[15:50:31] *** Quits: vutral (~vutral@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1896[15:50:54] <greycat> try "hash -r pip3" to clear the old location out of bash's cache
• 1897[15:51:30] <greycat> (oh, actually that clears *all* entries... sorry)
• 1898[15:51:42] <greycat> either "hash pip3" or "hash -r"
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• 1901[15:52:25] <GenTooMan> it looks like it installed pip3 in /usr/local/bin instead of /usr/bin ... why?
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• 1903[15:52:48] <greycat> Your /usr/local/bin/pip3 is definitely not from a Debian package. That would be a grievous policy violation.
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• 1905[15:53:27] <GenTooMan> sorry if I sound frustrated... argh.. how do I reinstall pip3 in the correct location?
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• 1908[15:54:08] <greycat> ,file usr/bin/pip3
• 1909[15:54:13] <judd> Search for usr/bin/pip3 in stretch/amd64: python3-pip: usr/bin/pip3
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• 1912[15:54:45] <greycat> You could do "apt-get --reinstall install python3-pip" for that half, but as for /usr/local/bin/pip3, that's on you. We can't guess where that came from.
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• 1915[15:55:15] <GenTooMan> Well that makes 2 of us, I wondered why I kept getting weird errors.
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• 1924[16:00:06] <GenTooMan> I suspect it's an after affect of something else, which obviously I don't know what was or is. :D Thanks.
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• 1933[16:08:25] <jelly> GenTooMan: probably using pip install ... as root
• 1934[16:08:36] <jelly> or pip something else as root (don't)
• 1935[16:08:54] <jelly> virtualenv and normal users.
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• 1937[16:10:43] <han-solo> don't run system pip as root :)
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• 1940[16:11:21] <GenTooMan> jelly That seems more likely
• 1941[16:11:36] <GenTooMan> jelly suggestions on how to clear the mess?
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• 1944[16:13:49] <finn0> How can I view message timestamp of kernel ring buffer in my localtime? probably -e option will show but, I'm afraid it's not showing correct timestamp. Can I print something in kernel ring buffer just for testing purpose? Whether timestamp is correct?
• 1945[16:14:46] <greycat> dmesg -H is a start
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• 1949[16:18:03] <finn0> greycat: I've tried all options but, not sure whether they are correct. So, I want verify it by printing something to ring buffer. Is it possible?
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• 1960[16:22:00] <hwm4rgs> finn0: "echo foo > /dev/kmsg"
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• 1965[16:26:41] <finn0> hwm4rgs: thanks, How can I run this command as sudo user? because getting permission denied when try to run `sudo echo foo > /dev/kmsg`.
• 1966[16:26:52] *** Quits: cshzg (~dietary@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 1967[16:26:55] <hwm4rgs> echo foo | sudo tee /dev/kmesg
• 1968[16:27:07] <hwm4rgs> you're telling "echo" to run as root
• 1969[16:27:14] <hwm4rgs> not the ">" operation
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• 1971[16:27:53] <progart> jh
• 1972[16:28:15] <finn0> hwm4rgs: okay, thanks. By the way none of none of option shows timestamp in local time in ring buffer.
• 1973[16:28:58] <hwm4rgs> Yeah, I have no idea how to make dmesg output local time, I think it's millis since boot regardless
• 1974[16:29:15] <greycat> dmesg -H but it only prints the full date/time on *some* lines, not all lines
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• 1978[16:30:24] <finn0> greycat: No, dmesg -H is not working. I've test it using hwm4rgs answer.
• 1979[16:30:33] <hwm4rgs> -e or --reltime sounds like it's what you want
• 1980[16:30:55] <hwm4rgs> [Jun28 16:24] foo
• 1981[16:31:08] <greycat> that still uses [ +0.750561] on some lines, but that's fine, so does -H
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• 1983[16:31:21] <hwm4rgs> Oh, didn't scroll far enough to see that.
• 1984[16:31:37] <greycat> looks like it only prints the absolute date/time maximum once per second
• 1985[16:31:44] <finn0> hwm4rgs: still not. But in my case it prints [Jun27 16:13] but correct time is Jun 28 20:01
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• 1987[16:32:06] <hwm4rgs> I presume your local time is correctly set?
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• 1990[16:32:28] <GenTooMan> how do you install a binary whl not as root?
• 1991[16:32:40] <finn0> hwm4rgs: Can I verify it?
• 1992[16:32:45] <hwm4rgs> finn0: `date`
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• 1996[16:33:25] <finn0> hwm4rgs: My local time is correctly setup. Fri Jun 28 20:02:51 IST 2019
• 1997[16:33:34] <hwm4rgs> Then I have no idea why dmesg is a day off.
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• 2001[16:34:22] <greycat> Maybe the clock was wrong at boot time, and it recorded the wrong clock setting at "time zero"? Just a guess.
• 2002[16:34:42] <hwm4rgs> That would make sense
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• 2005[16:34:51] <jmcnaught> dmesg(1) under -T: "Be aware that the timestamp could be inaccurate! The time source used for the logs is not updated after system SUSPEND/RESUME."
• 2006[16:34:57] <finn0> hwm4rgs: Is it due to clock drifting? But drifting shouldn't change time that much.
• 2007[16:35:36] <m4ch1n3znc> is there any good read on howto configure debian when connecting to public open wlan hotspots to stay safe?
• 2008[16:35:38] <finn0> greycat: Can I fix it?
• 2009[16:36:09] <hwm4rgs> m4ch1n3znc: Same principles as for internet-facing hosts apply
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• 2015[16:39:27] <jhutchins_wk> finn0: Why does this matter to you? Are you unable to understand GMT?
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• 2017[16:39:39] <jhutchins_wk> s/GMT/UTC
• 2018[16:40:11] <finn0> m4ch1n3znc: Randomize MAC address if supported by wireless card as well driver. Use DoT or DoH.
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• 2021[16:40:42] <m4ch1n3znc> finn0, already did both
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• 2024[16:41:21] <m4ch1n3znc> also customized dhcpclient settings to not use their dns server and to not send my networkname/hostname
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• 2026[16:41:32] *** Quits: tekmans13 (~tekmans@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 2027[16:41:59] <m4ch1n3znc> thought more about something like howto setup it up to be like behind nat to local hotspot ip ranges and still allow browse inet from my machine but harden it to all other machines on the same hotspot
• 2028[16:42:04] *** Joins: cshzg (~dietary@replaced-ip)
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• 2030[16:42:10] <greycat> *WHY* do so many people in this channel think that their hostname has to be protected?!
• 2031[16:42:14] *** Quits: vutral (vutral@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2032[16:42:16] <greycat> It's baffling.
• 2033[16:42:22] <m4ch1n3znc> lol idk
• 2034[16:42:33] <hwm4rgs> A hostname says a lot about a user.
• 2035[16:43:05] <greycat> Well, stop using your grandma's maiden name and your first pet name as your hostname.
• 2036[16:43:22] <finn0> jhutchins_wk: because that time is not in GMT. I couldn't figure out where does in world current is [Jun27 16:13]
• 2037[16:43:23] *** Quits: akko (~gentoo@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.4)
• 2038[16:44:07] <pyfgcr> finn0: I guess nowhere
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• 2041[16:44:28] <hwm4rgs> finn0: It's either that your computer suspended/hibernated which it doesn't keep track of, or your hardware clock was behind at boot
• 2042[16:44:29] *** Joins: noosanon` (~user@replaced-ip)
• 2043[16:44:32] <m4ch1n3znc> oh yes to make it harder to indentify machine for other when use mac randimozation
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• 2046[16:44:42] <hwm4rgs> finn0: Or something else I don't understand.
• 2047[16:44:58] *** Joins: overbythere (~textual@replaced-ip)
• 2048[16:45:05] <pyfgcr> it's UTC-22.30
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• 2050[16:45:23] <m4ch1n3znc> thought uniq hostname would make the whole mac randomization near to useless
• 2051[16:45:40] <hwm4rgs> MAC addresses have no tie to hostnames
• 2052[16:45:49] *** Joins: stryker (~stryker@replaced-ip)
• 2053[16:45:50] <m4ch1n3znc> yes but to my machine
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• 2055[16:45:54] *** Quits: overbythere (~textual@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 2056[16:46:15] <m4ch1n3znc> both could be used to target a certain machine
• 2057[16:46:23] <m4ch1n3znc> or not?
• 2058[16:46:40] <m4ch1n3znc> on a unecrypted public wifi
• 2059[16:46:41] *** Quits: rsx (~rsx@replaced-ip) (Quit: rsx)
• 2060[16:46:46] <ayekat> not unless you specify what you mean with "target a machine"
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• 2063[16:47:01] <greycat> If someone is going to *attack* you, it will either be a network-wide attack where they're hitting everyone on the LAN, or it'll be targeted by IP address.
• 2064[16:47:20] *** Quits: noosanon` (~user@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 2065[16:47:50] <greycat> The fact that your hostname is "dragon" or "debian" or "ilikeb00bs" is completely irrelevant nobody cares.
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• 2070[16:49:04] <hwm4rgs> In the scenario where a MAC is randomized per connect but hostname isn't, it's information that can be used to identify a returning user.
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• 2074[16:49:54] <finn0> hwm4rgs: According to their help manual "Suspending/resume will make ctime and iso timestamps inaccurate" not with -e (realtime) option but, second could be possible. Can I see my hardware clock time?
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• 2079[16:50:39] <hwm4rgs> finn0: google says hwclock
• 2080[16:51:28] <finn0> hwm4rgs: my hw clock time is correct (2019-06-28 20:20:50.608810+0530)
• 2081[16:51:43] <hwm4rgs> Then I have no idea.
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• 2084[16:52:10] <greycat> finn0: *is* this a laptop? *have* you suspended it since boot?
• 2085[16:53:10] *** Joins: vutral (vutral@replaced-ip)
• 2086[16:53:17] <finn0> greycat: Yep, it is laptop. And I've suspended it many times since boot.
• 2087[16:53:27] <greycat> That's why the timestamps in dmesg are wrong. There is no fix.
• 2088[16:53:31] *** Quits: vutral (vutral@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2089[16:54:08] <finn0> greycat: Thanks, I'll verify this when next time I'll boot my system.
• 2090[16:54:10] <greycat> Your best bet if you're tracking down a problem would be to look at the secondary logged stuff -- either in syslog, or journalctl.
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• 2095[16:55:52] <finn0> greycat: but all message which are in ring buffer may not be present in syslog or journalctl. I've seen some error message which are only present in ring buffer in syslog.
• 2096[16:56:20] <finn0> mostly hardware/driver related problem.
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• 2103[17:02:08] <finn0> m4ch1n3znc: I was wondering how do you've setup DoT(DNS over TLS) in your system?
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• 2107[17:03:59] *** Quits: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2108[17:04:13] *** Quits: vutral (~vutral@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2109[17:04:42] <m4ch1n3znc> ... i would like to restrict all services like cups that would be by default accessible on local network to localhost on my machine only
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• 2111[17:05:26] <greycat> *that* is sensible, yes.
• 2112[17:05:37] *** Joins: Gyro (~user@replaced-ip)
• 2113[17:05:40] <m4ch1n3znc> finn0, its super easy :3
• 2114[17:05:46] <m4ch1n3znc> apt-get install stubby
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• 2121[17:07:27] <m4ch1n3znc> then edit its config and set address where it listens for dns requests e.g 127.0.0.2 and add it to /etc/resolv.conf
• 2122[17:08:36] <m4ch1n3znc> it also is configured by default to spread dns requests to multiple DoT servers that are in default config file and doesnt use only one dns server
• 2123[17:09:08] <m4ch1n3znc> its pretty cool and takes only seconds to set it up
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• 2131[17:11:37] <m4ch1n3znc> replaced-url
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• 2135[17:12:42] <greycat> if you're editing resolv.conf by hand, you also want to read...
• 2136[17:12:42] *** Joins: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip)
• 2137[17:12:43] <greycat> !override dns
• 2138[17:12:43] <dpkg> To have dhclient etc not touch /etc/resolv.conf, the best plan is to configure it not to touch that file. See replaced-url
• 2139[17:13:12] <m4ch1n3znc> yeah i have it in my dhclient.conf
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• 2145[17:13:37] *** Joins: GenTooMan (~cyberman@replaced-ip)
• 2146[17:13:46] <m4ch1n3znc> prepend domain-name-servers 127.0.0.2;
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• 2148[17:14:13] <m4ch1n3znc> and
• 2149[17:14:17] <m4ch1n3znc> # send host-name = gethostname();
• 2150[17:14:17] <m4ch1n3znc> send host-name = "";
• 2151[17:14:30] <diogenes_> m4ch1n3znc, i use dnsmasq for that.
• 2152[17:14:35] *** Joins: HarveyPwca (~HarveyPwc@replaced-ip)
• 2153[17:15:03] <greycat> the wiki page gives several approaches
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• 2158[17:19:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1532
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• 2161[17:20:18] <annadane> do dbus restarts always involve a reboot? when i upgraded expat, needrestart had dbus in its list of services to restart, and i'm just wondering...
• 2162[17:20:44] <greycat> I know apt or dpkg tells me that I need to reboot whenever there's a new dbus.
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• 2165[17:21:55] *** saint__ is now known as saint_
• 2166[17:22:14] <annadane> i've never seen what happens if i just let needrestart restart dbus
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• 2172[17:25:39] *** Joins: awalis (~awalis@replaced-ip)
• 2173[17:26:23] <MisterZan> is securing debian-howto up to date since systemd?
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• 2178[17:27:55] <awalis> hello everyone! does anyone know how to use "android file transfer for linux" in an efficient way ? so far I can only use the interactive mode. but it's a gues game, and the inclcuded help page doesn't say much
• 2179[17:27:55] *** Joins: de-facto (~de-facto@replaced-ip)
• 2180[17:28:31] <annadane> there's also likely a difference between reboots to replace dbus for a new version of dbus specifically vs just restarting it by itself
• 2181[17:29:12] *** Joins: akko (~gentoo@replaced-ip)
• 2182[17:29:24] <MisterZan> some of the links in the guide are out of date/broken
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• 2186[17:30:21] <MisterZan> also is gufw actually adjusting any iptables
• 2187[17:30:29] <MisterZan> am i unprotected until gufw runs?
• 2188[17:30:45] <annadane> dbus was also unchecked by default in needrestart, which is an interesting feature i don't know too much about yet
• 2189[17:31:22] <annadane> whether it unchecks things of a certain priority, etc
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• 2191[17:31:31] <nojake> .:ayekat:. not unless you specify what you mean with "target a machine == gosh
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• 2197[17:33:46] <MisterZan> installing needrestart. man perl sure is used in many apps
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• 2200[17:36:49] <nojake> "To have dhclient etc not touch /etc/resolv.conf, the best plan is to configure it not to touch that file. " -- troeeeet
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• 2204[17:38:53] <ayekat> nojake: ??
• 2205[17:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1525
• 2206[17:39:05] <nojake> missterzan. all good questions.
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• 2209[17:40:58] <ayekat> ah, I see I've got you on my ... list since april - nothing to see here ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
• 2210[17:41:12] <nojake> MisterZan, there is no firewall features installed on stretch by default .. afaik (its not much) and since you get ignored.
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• 2217[17:45:52] <mutante> MisterZan: you can run "iptables -L" to see rules.. if there are none.. you are unprotected
• 2218[17:45:53] *** Quits: Streusel (~Anonymous@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
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• 2220[17:46:07] *** Prints is now known as GurneyHallock
• 2221[17:46:24] <mutante> MisterZan: also note there is iptables and ip6tables for IPv6 if you have that enabled.. and they are separate
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• 2225[17:46:56] <jhutchins_wk> THe logic of having an on-server firewall is questionable. The firewall should be "upstream" of the server.
• 2226[17:47:03] <nojake> ayekat. are you a troll? disinformation?
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• 2230[17:49:03] <bernyrd> ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
• 2231[17:49:33] <nojake> could be you're just an idiot. with a list. hard to tell.
• 2232[17:49:41] <bernyrd> jhutchins_wk: do not see why. closing ports is good. if you can not trust firewall on server, why can you trust firewall not on server?
• 2233[17:49:55] <bernyrd> main argument I see is reduce load, if doing adaptive blocking
• 2234[17:49:59] *** Joins: GGMethos (methos@replaced-ip)
• 2235[17:50:02] <MisterZan> "ACCEPT tcp -- anywhere anywhere tcp dpt:bootps"
• 2236[17:50:09] <MisterZan> that doesn't sound good
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• 2239[17:50:49] *** GurneyHallock is now known as Prints
• 2240[17:50:57] <jhutchins_wk> bernyrd: Closing ports is windows. Linux doesn't open a port unless there's something configured (by you) to listen on it.
• 2241[17:51:16] <MisterZan> i thought port 67 was dns discover?
• 2242[17:51:23] <jhutchins_wk> bernyrd: There is no reduction of load, because all packets are processed by the kernel/iptables.
• 2243[17:51:24] <ayekat> well, the same can be said about windows - either there is a process listening on a given port, or it isn't
• 2244[17:52:04] *** Joins: cshzg (~dietary@replaced-ip)
• 2245[17:52:42] <nojake> jhutchins_wk, no matter what option it seems avahi-daemon always got installed and listening on stretch. any idea why?
• 2246[17:52:52] <MisterZan> bootps/bootpc is just a scary name. not related to remote booting
• 2247[17:53:01] <ayekat> MisterZan: port 67 is for DHCP
• 2248[17:53:04] <MisterZan> had me scared
• 2249[17:53:14] <MisterZan> blocking it now
• 2250[17:53:49] <mutante> MisterZan: nah.. it's actually not that bad.. i mean you HAVE rules as opposed to none and just being wide open
• 2251[17:54:11] <mutante> and having one for DHCP is likely needed unless you configure everything static
• 2252[17:54:22] <ayekat> MisterZan: no need to block DHCP
• 2253[17:54:27] <jhutchins_wk> nojake: Do you understand what avahi is?
• 2254[17:54:56] *** Joins: diniwed (~gavron@replaced-ip)
• 2255[17:55:20] <ayekat> MisterZan: then again, even if you *do* block it, most DHCP clients actually circumvent the OS's network stack anyway, and AFAIK are thus not affected by firewall rules like that
• 2256[17:55:26] *** Prints is now known as prints
• 2257[17:55:27] <nojake> barely. but .. when u say nothing is listenting you surely mean nothing. it did sound very solid to me. exceptinons?
• 2258[17:55:29] <mutante> MisterZan: more important to look at what the default rule is if nothing else matches.. default drop or default accept
• 2259[17:56:22] <nojake> jhutchins_wk, so avahi gets instgalled and listening?
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• 2263[17:56:53] <ayekat> MisterZan: also (as I don't use/understand ufw): is that rule for outgoing or incoming packets?
• 2264[17:57:15] <MisterZan> both. i had some connectivity issues a while back
• 2265[17:57:25] <MisterZan> i cleared them up but didn't remove the port change
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• 2269[17:58:34] <ayekat> I would recommend understanding what you are doing before getting scared of rules and randomly deleting or inserting them :-)
• 2270[17:59:13] <MisterZan> if inittab is gone how do i disable ctrl-alt-delete reboot
• 2271[17:59:42] *** Quits: mulletman (stumpys@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2272[17:59:52] <nojake> jhutchins_wk, still there? i'm certainly not out to mock you. it's just i remember you saying that and the fact it seemed not to be the case for me made me reinstsall several times from several sources. would be nice if you could clarify. pls.
• 2273[18:00:49] *** Quits: epony (epony@replaced-ip) (Quit: QUIT)
• 2274[18:01:10] <nojake> like yes or no. would be good.
• 2275[18:01:16] *** Quits: jubo2 (~juboxi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 2276[18:01:37] <MisterZan> found answer
• 2277[18:01:59] <sentriz> how i can do `exec 3< <(command)` in bash. how can i do it in sh/ash?
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• 2280[18:03:25] <sentriz> *** i can do <thing> in bash. how can i do it in ash/sh?
• 2281[18:03:25] <sentriz> this probably isn't the right channel either sorry
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• 2288[18:05:29] <nkuttler> sentriz: check their documentation
• 2289[18:06:12] *** Quits: TheWizard (~thewizard@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 2290[18:06:19] <bernyrd> jhutchins_wk: There is reduction of load if you are doing something like fail2ban, or monitoring usage patterns to block IP ranges
• 2291[18:06:22] *** Joins: zette (~mkf@replaced-ip)
• 2292[18:06:26] <sentriz> that's what i tried first. but there is a lot going on there
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• 2294[18:06:52] <bernyrd> jhutchins_wk: Windows behaves the same way... it is just some distributions are configured to also fail to respond to ICMP packets also, so port is fully dead
• 2295[18:07:13] *** Joins: zette (~mkf@replaced-ip)
• 2296[18:07:14] <bernyrd> based on what you are saying it looks like you accept a firewall as redundant then
• 2297[18:07:26] <bernyrd> in some cases it is not, and maybe also does load balance or some
• 2298[18:07:41] <bernyrd> but one computer behind one firewall is amusing?
• 2299[18:08:42] *** Quits: czesmir (~stefan@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
• 2300[18:08:58] <ayekat> sentriz: <(command) is not defined in POSIX, so not all shells support that syntax
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• 2303[18:09:27] <ayekat> sentriz: notably /bin/sh (which by default links to dash) doesn't support it (and I assume ash doesn't either)
• 2304[18:11:09] <MisterZan> do i dare set a grub password? almost never ends well...
• 2305[18:11:54] <mutante> speaking of iptables.. so i am not supposed to use that anymore and use nftables now that i am freshly on Buster? oooh
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• 2307[18:12:04] *** Quits: Texou (~Texou@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 2308[18:12:10] <mutante> needs a new script for nftables then
• 2309[18:12:11] <nojake> i mean. it seems not very different to windows. blocking ports doesn't really prevent software from not communicating through others. no? also with that dbus thing which is completely opaque to me still (not saying its jnot well documented somewhere) processes can use other procs to communicate. is that the default way procs use to tall? or is it sockets?
• 2310[18:12:52] <ayekat> mutante: I believe iptables is simply a compatibility interface for interacting with nftables, so it should still work
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• 2315[18:13:45] <nojake> talk*
• 2316[18:13:50] <nojake> lol. hi
• 2317[18:13:52] <mutante> argg.. wiki.nftables.org seems down for me
• 2318[18:14:00] <mutante> ayekat: i see.. thanks
• 2319[18:14:00] <MisterZan> what on earth. i did a grub install -v and it actually installed something instead of printing version
• 2320[18:14:34] <nojake> -v up to date now. :)
• 2321[18:14:37] *** Quits: embden (~embden@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 2322[18:14:46] <ayekat> MisterZan: what else did you expect? -v is 'verbose', according to the man page
• 2323[18:15:03] <nojake> i have a vision. *bookstore*
• 2324[18:15:20] <MisterZan> " Users can check the version of GRUB they are using with grub-install -V"
• 2325[18:15:34] <nojake> capital matters
• 2326[18:15:45] <ayekat> MisterZan: -V is not -v :-P
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• 2330[18:20:57] *** Joins: darkdrgn2k3 (~darkdrgn2@replaced-ip)
• 2331[18:21:13] <darkdrgn2k3> Hello all, im working on Debian 10 and im seeing allot of
• 2332[18:21:22] <jhutchins_wk> This is fairly conventional, -v is --verbose and -V is --version
• 2333[18:21:22] *** Joins: thePiGrepper (~nagato@replaced-ip)
• 2334[18:21:23] <darkdrgn2k3> " Cannot assign requested address
• 2335[18:21:23] <darkdrgn2k3> " i one of the networking software
• 2336[18:21:32] *** Joins: areyouloco (~areyouloc@replaced-ip)
• 2337[18:21:40] <darkdrgn2k3> anyone have any insight to what it could be?
• 2338[18:22:04] <ayekat> darkdrgn2k3: where exactly are you seeing those messages?
• 2339[18:22:19] *** Quits: belanthor (~belan@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2340[18:22:22] <darkdrgn2k3> im working it a meshing software called babeld
• 2341[18:22:27] *** Joins: vutral (~vutral@replaced-ip)
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• 2344[18:22:31] <nojake> on the monitor
• 2345[18:22:42] <darkdrgn2k3> its part of its logs, im guessing its the retrun of some tcp dunctions
• 2346[18:22:46] <nojake> luckily. lol
• 2347[18:22:56] <darkdrgn2k3> im also seeing that the routes it supposed to install do not seem to be correctly done
• 2348[18:23:04] <darkdrgn2k3> 10.109.36.70 - 255.255.255.255 !H -1 - 0 -
• 2349[18:23:17] <ayekat> hm... I'm not familiar with that :-|
• 2350[18:23:22] <darkdrgn2k3> yes
• 2351[18:23:23] *** Quits: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2352[18:23:24] <bernyrd> nojake: true, so for webserver, common to only allow inbound on 80, and related outbound connection. so, ideally, if webserver is hacked, attacker can not always send data out that they should not
• 2353[18:23:24] <bernyrd> in practice the attacks are clever enough to send the data as real responses, or the issue is actually with the database or something, and it does not matter
• 2354[18:23:41] <darkdrgn2k3> i was hoping to get some insight into what may have changed in buster (it was find on stretch)
• 2355[18:23:49] *** Quits: lcabrera (~desarroll@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2356[18:23:55] <bernyrd> there is harness that takes iptables rules I think
• 2357[18:24:04] <nojake> bernyrd, hi. :) ok.
• 2358[18:25:23] *** Quits: spacemanspam (~weechat@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2359[18:25:46] <MisterZan> rebooting. if i don't return in 5 minutes i got rekt
• 2360[18:25:53] <MisterZan> grub a dub dub
• 2361[18:26:00] *** Quits: MisterZan (~entmax@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2362[18:26:10] <nojake> good luck.
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• 2369[18:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1515
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• 2375[18:32:16] <m4ch1n3znc> 5 minutes are over lol
• 2376[18:32:17] *** Joins: vutral (~vutral@replaced-ip)
• 2377[18:32:27] <m4ch1n3znc> rip
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• 2381[18:34:09] *** Quits: knidos (~knidos@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 2382[18:34:56] <nojake> grub adventures are an epos on their own
• 2383[18:35:16] *** Quits: twobitsprite (~isaac@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2384[18:35:35] *** Quits: progart (~kamee@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving.)
• 2385[18:35:54] *** Quits: pamaury (~pamaury@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 2386[18:35:57] <mutante> yea, MisterZan is in grub shell right now :(
• 2387[18:35:58] <noosanon> nojake: yes they are... lol
• 2388[18:36:15] <mutante> trying random commands and then when typing "help" it scrolls by and there is no | less :p
• 2389[18:36:23] *** Joins: MisterZan (~entmax@replaced-ip)
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• 2391[18:36:30] <nojake> lol. yes.
• 2392[18:36:40] <nojake> you can press break. if you;re fast.
• 2393[18:36:47] <mutante> gtk :)
• 2394[18:37:05] <MisterZan> the good news is the grub password works and the bios password works. the bad news is my freaking network cable has been setup as a possible boot device
• 2395[18:37:16] <MisterZan> and there is no way to say no booting from usbs.
• 2396[18:37:33] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip)
• 2397[18:37:34] <nojake> wb
• 2398[18:37:42] <MisterZan> thnx
• 2399[18:37:44] <mutante> MisterZan: welcome , we thought you were stuck in grub shell
• 2400[18:38:07] <mutante> why is "booting from ethernet cable" bad ?
• 2401[18:38:08] <MisterZan> yeah i got a little sidetracked with the bios
• 2402[18:38:24] *** Quits: rivyn (~rivyn@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
• 2403[18:38:24] <MisterZan> because then someone could boot the machine remotely
• 2404[18:38:28] <MisterZan> and i simply do not do that
• 2405[18:38:55] <mutante> oh, really? but dont you have to press F12 or something to PXE boot
• 2406[18:39:21] <MisterZan> with the hidden SoC in our processors these days i just don't trust it
• 2407[18:39:22] <mutante> turn of WakeUpOnLAN in BIOS?
• 2408[18:39:35] *** Joins: manakanapa (manakanapa@replaced-ip)
• 2409[18:39:36] <MisterZan> didn't see any option like that
• 2410[18:39:49] <mutante> hmm.. i just saw that in mine.. but different BIOS of course
• 2411[18:39:53] <nojake> right. are there any chinese mainboards on the market? :d
• 2412[18:39:58] <MisterZan> do you have UEFI?
• 2413[18:40:09] <mutante> yea
• 2414[18:40:12] <nojake> i definitely need to get rid of that asus crap.
• 2415[18:40:40] <MisterZan> one nice thing is they do let me disable every usb port.
• 2416[18:41:07] <nojake> and i hate uefi. i dont understand it. it only cost me nevers. though i can browse bios with a vr helmet.
• 2417[18:41:11] <MisterZan> literally every slot i can configure as enable/disabled
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• 2423[18:44:33] <jhutchins_wk> MisterZan: You badly misunderstand how netboot works, Don't worry about it, it's a standard fallback feature.
• 2424[18:44:35] *** Joins: juboxi (~juboxi@replaced-ip)
• 2425[18:44:52] <nojake> lol
• 2426[18:44:53] *** Quits: hamberder (hamberder@replaced-ip) (Quit: hamberder)
• 2427[18:45:07] *** Quits: higgs_ (~iulian_@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2428[18:45:38] *** Quits: jubo2 (~juboxi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 2429[18:45:40] <MisterZan> @jhutchins_wk there are situations where all drives become unplugged
• 2430[18:45:47] *** juboxi is now known as jubo2
• 2431[18:46:34] *** Quits: cshzg (~dietary@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 2432[18:46:45] <nojake> it's like the most top ranked forums. first you get squeezed about tons of information about your setup, and in the end the expert agree about it's fine to ignore it all and get a life.
• 2433[18:47:12] *** Quits: thePiGrepper (~nagato@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 2434[18:48:00] <nojake> the secret place where ppl learn to write and read.
• 2435[18:48:08] *** Quits: han-solo (~han-solo@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
• 2436[18:48:51] <MisterZan> maybe my most important question. how can i have every document, video, and audio file be auto-chrooted?
• 2437[18:48:51] <nojake> an esoteric cabal of knowledge
• 2438[18:49:03] *** Joins: ctcx (~user@replaced-ip)
• 2439[18:49:53] <MisterZan> or am i thinking of this backwards?
• 2440[18:50:02] <nojake> can u explain to me noob? or link me?
• 2441[18:50:09] <mutante> what do you want to protect against?
• 2442[18:50:11] *** Joins: aliasnumber10 (~anzero@replaced-ip)
• 2443[18:50:18] <mutante> MisterZan: what is the higher level goal ?
• 2444[18:50:37] *** Quits: dethos (~dethos@replaced-ip) (Quit: Time to Go!)
• 2445[18:50:45] <MisterZan> against trojan horses
• 2446[18:51:09] <ayekat> you can't chroot files - you can launch processes in a chroot
• 2447[18:51:33] *** Joins: humpled (~humbag@replaced-ip)
• 2448[18:51:38] <mutante> MisterZan: so where would those come from? clicking malicious links in a browser or email app? then you would want to separate those app processes
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• 2451[18:51:59] <MisterZan> i sometimes download documents,videos, and audio files
• 2452[18:52:09] <MisterZan> i then use something like vlc, pluma to view/watch these
• 2453[18:52:14] *** Joins: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip)
• 2454[18:52:34] <nojake> but it affects the file system accessible? is it really sandboxed? or .. better vm maybe? namespace? xserver? cgroup? aah..
• 2455[18:52:35] <mutante> you are worried about malware in the downloads? so you want anti-virus ?
• 2456[18:52:56] <ctcx> This *old* bug replaced-url
• 2457[18:52:57] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 2458[18:53:04] *** Quits: finn0 (~finn0@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 2459[18:53:12] <jhutchins_wk> It's important to make sure your tinfoil hat proides full coverage.
• 2460[18:53:23] <nojake> actually anything that can be read. and should not. or even worse: written over.
• 2461[18:54:15] <nojake> jhutchins_wk, what about the avahi deaemon. installed and listeneing on stretch or not?
• 2462[18:54:41] <mutante> MisterZan: maybe replaced-url
• 2463[18:54:49] <nojake> *cirp
• 2464[18:55:33] <nojake> i would be 100% fine if u just made a mistake. or say sth. kike im not sure.
• 2465[18:55:35] <nojake> bro.
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• 2469[18:56:22] <nojake> np,
• 2470[18:56:32] <MisterZan> @mutante doesn't support my hardware yet.
• 2471[18:57:12] <MisterZan> i installed firejail
• 2472[18:57:51] <mutante> MisterZan: i see. you can also check out "Tomoyo Linux"
• 2473[18:58:14] <MisterZan> i'm interested in if (run_media_app) { don't run media_app; run "firejail media_app"}
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• 2480[18:58:59] <mutante> MisterZan: you can just use aliases.. something like 'alias foo="bar"' in .bashrc or so
• 2481[18:59:23] <nojake> yup. i did as well. it opejned a few new questions.. as when it can completely circumvent monitoring as i learned so far. no clue if it uses namespaces or what. but ps -aux would defitely list all procs?
• 2482[18:59:38] <mutante> where foo is "media_app" and bar is "firejail media_app"
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• 2486[19:00:28] <nojake> so what damn list am i on: iq 80+ ?
• 2487[19:00:31] <greycat> or if this media_app is being invoked by other programs, not from your interactive shell, you might need to write wrapper scripts instead
• 2488[19:00:35] <nojake> warning.
• 2489[19:00:37] <ayekat> aliases won't work if they launch it from a desktop environment - not even sure if wrapper scripts work (with .desktop file entries)
• 2490[19:00:58] <nojake> listens to spice girls.
• 2491[19:01:18] <ayekat> most Exec= lines specify the full path to the executable, it seems
• 2492[19:01:19] <nojake> secretely plans to install suse.
• 2493[19:01:19] <mutante> nojake: and i listen to nojake.. just a bit too much
• 2494[19:01:44] <nojake> alrright. i will calm a bit.
• 2495[19:02:00] *** Quits: vutral (~vutral@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2496[19:02:00] <MisterZan> maybe i can lock down the media apps as noexecute. then have the aliases magically ignore the noexecute and do a firejailing
• 2497[19:02:03] <nojake> have a good weekend all.
• 2498[19:02:04] *** Quits: Slashman (~Slash@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2499[19:02:16] <greycat> MisterZan: no, if you need that, use wrapper scripts instead
• 2500[19:02:29] <mutante> nojake: thanks, you have a good weekend too. i did not mean you should leave, just stick to one or 2 questions at once
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• 2502[19:02:42] <ctcx> This *old* bug replaced-url
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• 2504[19:03:34] <nojake> nah. im not leaving at all.. just say hi.. i enujoyed the talk. ;> maybe idle around a bit or play with myself :d
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• 2506[19:03:42] <nojake> thx
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• 2509[19:04:11] <ayekat> greycat: if libreoffice.desktop specifies Exec=/usr/bin/libreoffice, do wrapper scripts even work?
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• 2511[19:04:45] <greycat> ayekat: well, no... in that case you would have to do something intrusive, like using a dpkg override
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• 2515[19:06:27] <ayekat> because if they double-click on some .odt file in a file manager, the file manager will probably look up the MIME association and launch the program using the mimeapps.list and XDG .desktop entries, so they'll need to override those, too
• 2516[19:06:45] <jmcnaught> I know that you can put .desktop files in ~/.local/share/applications, maybe you can also put them in /usr/local/share/applications
• 2517[19:06:53] <greycat> and these desktop environments hard-code paths to programs, instead of just using the program's name?
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• 2520[19:07:24] <somiaj> ctcx: what about that bug? In general it hasn't been a prioprity of the debian developers to make debian work on multiboot iso installers.
• 2521[19:07:29] <ayekat> greycat: no, but the .desktop entries installed under /usr/share/applications might
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• 2523[19:07:54] <ayekat> greycat: I guess one could override those by placing custom .desktop entry files under ~/.local/share or wherever it goes
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• 2526[19:08:38] <greycat> or go full throttle, and use dpkg-divert to permanently move /usr/bin/fooplayer to /usr/bin/fooplayer.real, and set up /usr/local/bin/fooplayer as a wrapper script, and make /usr/bin/fooplayer a symlink to /usr/local/bin/fooplayer
• 2527[19:09:09] <greycat> I can't think of anything else that would be nearly-guaranteed to work around stupids who hard-code full paths to end user programs in config files or scripts.
• 2528[19:09:39] *** Joins: omonk (~omonk@replaced-ip)
• 2529[19:10:08] <MisterZan> ok i made a wrapper
• 2530[19:11:11] <greycat> Ugh, you're doing it... OK, I am not the best person to help with dpkg-divert. Never used it myself. If you have an issue and it's not obvious from the man page, I guess ask here and wait for someone who knows it.
• 2531[19:11:31] <MisterZan> i'm just doing the simple wrapped
• 2532[19:11:40] <greycat> Unless you only meant "a wrapper that catches fooplayer but not /usr/bin/fooplayer" in which case you don't need dpkg-divert.
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• 2535[19:12:18] <MisterZan> my wrapper is just a .sh. i'll somehow add it to my app menu
• 2536[19:12:34] <greycat> Your app menu invokes programs with full paths?
• 2537[19:12:40] <MisterZan> ikd
• 2538[19:12:56] <ayekat> MisterZan: what application did you wrap? libreoffice?
• 2539[19:13:31] <MisterZan> pluma for now
• 2540[19:13:59] <ctcx> somiaj: so devs are not really interested in supporting loopback devices?
• 2541[19:14:04] <ayekat> MisterZan: does /usr/share/applications/pluma.desktop have an absolute path (like /usr/bin/pluma) on the Exec= line?
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• 2543[19:14:44] <somiaj> ctcx: Read the bug report, to me it is clear their stance.
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• 2547[19:15:31] <MisterZan> ayekat the pluma.desktop file exists in the /usr/share/applications, but i don't have pluma on my desktop
• 2548[19:15:45] <somiaj> ctcx: you might also read the installer guide on the making a usb image the flexiable way, maybe that would work on a multiboot iso.
• 2549[19:15:46] <MisterZan> it's in the menus
• 2550[19:15:47] <m4ch1n3znc> jesus christus that *tables seems to be a insane complex and huge topic
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• 2554[19:16:20] <MisterZan> i think i will just add my wrapper to a secondary panel
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• 2556[19:16:39] <ayekat> MisterZan: what do you mean with "have pluma on the desktop"?
• 2557[19:17:11] <ayekat> MisterZan: actually - totally different question: if your goal is to avoid "trojan horses"... what exactly are you trying to defend against?
• 2558[19:17:24] <ayekat> because a text file won't be able to do much damage if you open it in a text editor
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• 2563[19:17:34] <MisterZan> there's also pdf documents and images
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• 2565[19:17:38] <greycat> Am I allowed to suggest that if one is ultra paranoid, running a Desktop Environment may be a bad move?
• 2566[19:18:00] <somiaj> or even connecting to the internet.
• 2567[19:18:04] *** hiya is now known as hiya___
• 2568[19:18:13] <m4ch1n3znc> or own a computer
• 2569[19:18:21] <ayekat> ^ this - you keep clicking on files and expect stuff to happen in an automatic fashion - it's not exactly an environment for a super-paranoid user
• 2570[19:18:25] *** hiya___ is now known as hiya
• 2571[19:18:30] <MisterZan> so actually i can just add a custom launcher (perhaps a feature of matE?) and just say "firejail appnamehere"
• 2572[19:18:45] *** Quits: noodlepie (~phillip@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2573[19:18:50] <somiaj> Isn't this what apparmor/selinux is designed for as well?
• 2574[19:19:07] <MisterZan> what can i say i want my host to be usable w/ gui
• 2575[19:19:22] <greycat> "usable" means different things to different people...
• 2576[19:19:34] <MisterZan> i can testrun the graphical apps i develop on the host
• 2577[19:19:47] <ayekat> that YOU develop?
• 2578[19:19:48] <MisterZan> going full terminal, not really an option
• 2579[19:19:49] *** Joins: epony (epony@replaced-ip)
• 2580[19:19:53] <MisterZan> yes ayekat
• 2581[19:20:09] <ayekat> ... so why are you being paranoid about what the application does?
• 2582[19:20:16] *** Joins: noodlepie (~phillip@replaced-ip)
• 2583[19:20:24] <MisterZan> i still open documents/videos/audio that aren't mine
• 2584[19:20:36] <MisterZan> this was an explanation of why not just a stripped down host with only a terminal
• 2585[19:20:36] <somiaj> MisterZan: greycat suggestion was not go full terminal. Not running a desktop enviorment is not the same thing as not running xorg.
• 2586[19:20:44] <MisterZan> actually videos should have indicated that
• 2587[19:20:48] <greycat> I didn't suggest scrapping X11 altogether. Just run a normal window manager instead of a Desktop Environment.
• 2588[19:21:05] *** Quits: annadane (~annadane@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2589[19:21:24] <ayekat> well, whether they run a full-blown DE or just a WM doesn't change much when it comes to double-clicking on icons and having the appropriate application run automagically, no?
• 2590[19:21:28] <greycat> (unless you *want* text console only, in which case, great)
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• 2593[19:21:52] <greycat> Depends on the wm. I don't have any icons on my desk unless I minimize a window. And then the icon just restores that window.
• 2594[19:21:59] *** Joins: de-facto (~de-facto@replaced-ip)
• 2595[19:22:03] <somiaj> ayekat: it makes a huge difference, lots of WMs don't even support .desktop files and automatic launching of things, and you can configure it to use wrappers, shell scripts far easier.
• 2596[19:22:23] <greycat> I have root menus that can be run with the mouse, and every entry in them can be customized by editing a text file.
• 2597[19:22:36] <ayekat> somiaj: it's not up to the WM/DE to support .desktop files - it's the (graphical) file manager in question, be it nautilus, thunar, caja, ...
• 2598[19:23:00] <somiaj> though the click random file you download and have it run is more a filemanager thing, so you would have to find a file manger you can configure wrapper scripts with, and lots of simpler filemanagers have the ability select which program is run when you click on it.
• 2599[19:23:10] <greycat> I don't use nautilus of thunar or caja. I've never even heard of the last one.
• 2600[19:23:25] <m4ch1n3znc> openbox-session + pcmanfm, no desktop icons. you can only click on things in file manager and pcmanfm always prompt menu if you want execute executable file or open it in other way
• 2601[19:23:35] <somiaj> Though as mentioned probably running things via a filemanager may not be the the best way if you want to have nice wrapers to jail everything you run.
• 2602[19:23:55] <greycat> Maybe the file manager can be configured to use your jailed wrapper. I don't know.
• 2603[19:24:05] <m4ch1n3znc> ah ok
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• 2605[19:24:36] <somiaj> I think the simipler filemanagers would have more control over this, than the ones that try to just do everything using freedesktop standards.
• 2606[19:24:39] <ayekat> yeah, you can configure what programs to run for what file type, with most if not all file managers (pcmanfm is no difference there, I believe)
• 2607[19:25:06] <MisterZan> you could critisize lots of decisions i've made. i have bless installed, and with that some extra mono stuff i probably don't need
• 2608[19:25:26] *** Quits: a_l_b (~a_l_b@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 2609[19:25:26] <MisterZan> and bless crashes all the time on me. strace says it's due to a null pointer dereference
• 2610[19:25:35] <m4ch1n3znc> mono installs a shitload of microsoft certs :(
• 2611[19:25:36] <greycat> The simpler your environment is, the more easily you can understand all the pieces of it, and the more control you can exercise.
• 2612[19:26:27] <m4ch1n3znc> yeah and the more efficent it is
• 2613[19:26:47] <ayekat> "efficient" highly depends on the user, though
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• 2615[19:27:34] <somiaj> For someoen who was going down the road of dpkg-divert (vs just make local .desktop files) I would say simplier/efficent would be highly benifical.
• 2616[19:27:40] <greycat> There's efficiency of system resource usage, and there's efficiency of workflow.
• 2617[19:27:49] <greycat> pretty sure m4ch1n3znc meant the first one
• 2618[19:28:24] <MisterZan> i think i might purge bless from the host.
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• 2624[19:31:17] <jhutchins_wk> nojake: It is on this install.
• 2625[19:31:37] <ayekat> MisterZan: anyway, if you want to properly wrap pluma, check whether the corresponding .desktop file hardcodes the path to the executable or not - if it doesn't, you're fine - otherwise, you'll need to write a custom .desktop file as well
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• 2636[19:34:09] <ayekat> but as I've already mentioned above, running pluma in a jail will do very likely nothing for security
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• 2641[19:34:26] <nojake> jhutchins_wk, alright. cheers.
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• 2644[19:34:57] <MisterZan> odd. i have image magick installed. but can't find its /usr/bin
• 2645[19:35:13] <greycat> it consists of programs like /usr/bin/convert and /usr/bin/mogrify
• 2646[19:35:14] <ayekat> MisterZan: imagemagick is not a command - it provides multiple tools
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• 2651[19:37:08] <MisterZan> which one does the viewing?
• 2652[19:37:10] <greycat> you can use something like dpkg -L imagemagick-6.q16 | grep bin/ to see them
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• 2654[19:37:27] <greycat> MisterZan: display, probably?
• 2655[19:37:29] <somiaj> MisterZan: display
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• 2657[19:38:08] <MisterZan> ha perfect
• 2658[19:38:45] <greycat> I didn't think too many people used display(1) from im for image viewing. Mostly people just use im for image file manipulations.
• 2659[19:39:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1508
• 2660[19:39:11] <MisterZan> i'm more concerned about viewing
• 2661[19:39:14] <MisterZan> i use gimp for editing
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• 2663[19:39:41] <greycat> and you use display for viewing, but you didn't know that you use it?
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• 2665[19:40:02] <MisterZan> i just double click the picture and it says image magick then shows the picture
• 2666[19:40:37] <MisterZan> sorry that was eye-of-mate but sometimes i use the displaly
• 2667[19:40:39] <somiaj> maybe something like feh would be more your style though most desktops come with their own built in viewer.
• 2668[19:40:41] <MisterZan> of image magick
• 2669[19:41:08] <greycat> I'm old-fashioned and still use xv even though Debian hasn't shipped it in years.
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• 2671[19:42:27] <m4ch1n3znc> display-im6.q16
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• 2675[19:43:04] <greycat> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 25 May 26 2017 /usr/bin/convert -> /etc/alternatives/convert
• 2676[19:43:07] <greycat> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 May 26 2017 /etc/alternatives/convert -> /usr/bin/convert-im6.q16
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• 2678[19:44:57] <jelly> greycat: but do you have it patched up!?
• 2679[19:45:12] <jelly> ii xv 3.10a-jumbo20050501-1+jelly.0 i386 An image viewer and manipulator for the X Window System.
• 2680[19:45:28] <MisterZan> xeyes are these eyeballs
• 2681[19:45:29] <greycat> Probably not.
• 2682[19:45:35] <MisterZan> and they look at my cursor
• 2683[19:45:44] <greycat> MisterZan: yeah, that's what xeyes does
• 2684[19:45:45] <jelly> you can have some patches... for a price.
• 2685[19:45:57] <nkuttler> feh is alright for viewing
• 2686[19:46:13] <jelly> gliv is ok if your opengl works well
• 2687[19:46:38] <greycat> There are so many classic X11 programs that are gone from Debian, or were never added. xlock(more), xroach...
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• 2689[19:46:40] <somiaj> feh works for most things, though it doesn't have all image support, so ocasionally I need somethign else.
• 2690[19:47:01] <nkuttler> xlock was removed? eh..
• 2691[19:47:03] <somiaj> xroach use to be a part of debian, it was removed years ago, but still worked for years, eventaully I removed it.
• 2692[19:47:19] <jelly> huh! I never notices xlock(more) was gone
• 2693[19:47:25] <somiaj> I think xlockmore was around for a while, not sure if it is there, I use i3lock now or something liek that.
• 2694[19:47:30] <greycat> Apparently xlockmore's fancier modes crashed sometimes, and that was considered unacceptable in a screen-locking program.
• 2695[19:47:34] <jelly> xsnow is there but does not work
• 2696[19:47:42] <nkuttler> i3lock here too
• 2697[19:47:48] <greycat> yeah, I had to switch to i3lock also
• 2698[19:48:06] <jelly> xscreensaver forever
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• 2700[19:48:43] <nkuttler> xtrlock is still there
• 2701[19:48:47] <MisterZan> wow eye of mate is simply eom
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• 2705[19:49:24] <jelly> nkuttler: xtrlock leaks your precious desktop!!!1one
• 2706[19:49:37] <somiaj> MisterZan: well they just changed that from eog (eye of gnome)
• 2707[19:49:57] <nkuttler> jelly: that's why i don't use it any more
• 2708[19:50:32] <nkuttler> just had to explain to somebody today that even a blurred screenshot of your desktop leaks data
• 2709[19:51:02] <MisterZan> brb
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• 2714[19:51:47] <greycat> Your porn wallpaper is still identifiable as porn even if you blur it. ;-)
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• 2719[19:55:56] <MisterZan> now i'm noticing something i never installed
• 2720[19:55:59] <MisterZan> Xpra
• 2721[19:56:25] <greycat> Desktop Environments tend to bring in a plethora of surprises
• 2722[19:56:52] *** Quits: trackanddirt (~trackandd@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 2723[19:57:01] <MisterZan> it's a frikking remote application connector thing
• 2724[19:57:28] <greycat> you can use "aptitude why xpra" to see why it's there
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• 2727[19:58:26] <MisterZan> i don't have aptitude
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• 2729[19:58:47] <MisterZan> can it know even if i install it now?
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• 2731[19:59:10] <MisterZan> "i firejail Recommends xpra | xserver-xephyr
• 2732[19:59:10] <MisterZan> "
• 2733[19:59:12] <greycat> Yes. It really shows why the package hasn't been autoremoved, not the literal historical decisions.
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• 2735[19:59:24] <MisterZan> look at that
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• 2738[20:00:19] <ayekat> makes sense - if you want to jail an application, you don't want it to access your real desktop, so it needs to run on an alternative X server (or display, at least)
• 2739[20:00:46] <ayekat> *your real X session, that is
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• 2788[20:28:12] <fred1807> can I "nmcli networking connectivity" specific on wlan0 ?
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• 2799[20:35:40] <shmam> Trying to install ddclient. Used `sudo apt install ddclient` but still getting "ddclient: command not found" and there's no binary in /user/bin
• 2800[20:36:07] <Ticho> try dpkg -L ddclient to see what files the package installed
• 2801[20:36:17] *** Quits: trackanddirt (~trackandd@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 2802[20:36:20] <greycat> you can use dpkg -L ddclient | grep bin/ to see what executable files it contains
• 2803[20:36:21] <Ticho> it's probably in /usr/sbin
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• 2806[20:37:38] <shmam> Oh yeah it's in /usr/sbin
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• 2809[20:38:09] <shmam> Is this an issue/how do I make it work without having to type /usr/sbin/ddclient every time?
• 2810[20:38:19] *** Joins: annadane (~annadane@replaced-ip)
• 2811[20:38:21] <greycat> you can put /usr/sbin in your PATH
• 2812[20:38:29] <shmam> oh touche
• 2813[20:38:35] <greycat> or you can make /usr/local/bin/ddclient a symlink to /usr/sbin/ddclient
• 2814[20:38:35] <shmam> is that recommended?
• 2815[20:38:45] <shmam> I like that better
• 2816[20:38:49] <greycat> or $HOME/bin/ddclient if you prefer that
• 2817[20:39:27] <greycat> assuming that your method of login has $HOME/bin in your PATH, which Debian mostly tries to do if possible, but because of Desktop Environments and Display Managers, nothing can ever be simple
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• 2827[20:43:02] <jelly> my life with squeeze
• 2828[20:43:07] <jelly> # faketime 2018-01-01 apt-get -o Acquire::Check-Valid-Until=false update
• 2829[20:44:29] <annadane> i resorted to using slim because i was too lazy to read how to startx for various desktops
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• 2835[20:47:58] <jhutchins_wk> shmam: Actually, the system should be running that as root, possibly from the ifup file.
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• 2837[20:48:16] <jhutchins_wk> shmam: You shouldn't be running that as a regular user.
• 2838[20:48:28] <jhutchins_wk> shmam: That's why it's in sbin.
• 2839[20:49:15] <greycat> I have no idea what it does. I just took for granted that he had some legit reason to run it from a shell, perhaps because it has an option or subcommand where it just gives info instead of doing things.
• 2840[20:49:32] *** Joins: trackanddirt (~trackandd@replaced-ip)
• 2841[20:49:42] <greycat> (like ifconfig)
• 2842[20:50:16] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: perl dynamic DNS client.
• 2843[20:50:46] *** Quits: queip (~queip@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 2844[20:52:50] <jelly> there's precious little reason to call a remote http api as root really; you may have meant "run when internet comnection goes up"
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• 2847[20:53:46] <greycat> "it gets called by programs/scripts, not from shells" I think is the intended meaning
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• 2852[20:57:29] <shmam> Yeah I'm testing the config rn so just using sudo
• 2853[20:57:54] <shmam> Once I verify it, I will call it through a cron job
• 2854[20:58:01] *** Quits: vutral (~vutral@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2855[20:58:02] <greycat> ... what, no
• 2856[20:58:03] <jhutchins_wk> shmam: sudo -i <command> will find commands on the root path.
• 2857[20:58:07] *** Joins: keruyh8 (~thain30@replaced-ip)
• 2858[20:58:09] <shmam> oof why no?
• 2859[20:58:14] <greycat> it should be called from a DHCP hook
• 2860[20:58:31] <shmam> oh yeah what I said makes no sense at all
• 2861[20:58:34] <shmam> lmao
• 2862[20:58:48] <greycat> replaced-url
• 2863[20:58:58] <jhutchins_wk> ... which should already be in place if you installed it from a debian package.
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• 2866[20:59:56] <shmam> wait did you write this greycat?
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• 2868[21:00:15] <greycat> replaced-url
• 2869[21:00:21] <greycat> Yeah, looks like nobody else has touched it.
• 2870[21:01:10] <shmam> so you actually know what you're doing here, cool
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• 2878[21:04:41] <shmam> any idea why I'm getting this error: "WARNING: skipping host: <removed>: 'zone=' is an invalid fully quantified host name." I just copied the config from here: replaced-url
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• 2880[21:05:22] <jpw> where are goi seeing that?
• 2881[21:05:32] <jpw> s/goi/you/
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• 2883[21:05:58] <shmam> when I try to run "sudo -i ddclient"
• 2884[21:05:59] <greycat> from previous context, shmam is trying to set up ddclient, which is a perl dynamic DNS client
• 2885[21:06:12] <jpw> kk
• 2886[21:06:14] <shmam> oh yeah sorry
• 2887[21:06:59] <greycat> replaced-url
• 2888[21:07:22] <shmam> yeah I can't really find much info on ddclient in general
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• 2890[21:07:46] <shmam> Is there a better/widely used alternative?
• 2891[21:07:50] <mutante> apt-cache search dyndns
• 2892[21:07:54] <mutante> ^ will show alternatives
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• 2895[21:08:41] <jpw> nsupdate if your provider supports it
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• 2900[21:11:50] <jhutchins_wk> shmam: You may have the hostname misconfigured. You could try running it in debug mode.
• 2901[21:12:54] <shmam> What am I looking for in this debug output? I don't see any errors or warnings
• 2902[21:13:00] <jhutchins_wk> shmam: If you installed it from that site or from perl, you should remove what you've done and install it with aptitude. That will make sure the right hooks are in the network config.
• 2903[21:13:18] <greycat> What you want is accurate documentation of the config file format, and to compare that to what you actually have in YOUR config file.
• 2904[21:13:40] <mutante> shmam: "fully quantified" is really "fully qualified" and they mean it needs to be something like "foo.bar.org" and not just something like "foo", so with a domain
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• 2906[21:13:46] <greycat> debug output from the program can help you pinpoint where the problem is, but it seems like you already know (some line with "Zone" in it).
• 2907[21:13:57] <shmam> I installed it with `sudo apt install ddclient libjson-any-perl`
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• 2909[21:14:23] <jhutchins_wk> shmam: You should be ok once you fix the config then.
• 2910[21:14:26] <jhutchins_wk> !paste
• 2911[21:14:26] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: replaced-url
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• 2913[21:14:44] <jhutchins_wk> Paste your config, make sure you don't past the password.
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• 2917[21:17:34] <shmam> It's on the last line which contains the domain: replaced-url
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• 2919[21:17:48] <shmam> I also tried using a subdomain: xx.xx.com
• 2920[21:17:54] <shmam> which had the same error
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• 2924[21:19:30] <greycat> 15:04 shmam> any idea why I'm getting this error: "WARNING: skipping host:
• 2925[21:19:50] *** Quits: pringau (~pringau@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2926[21:19:51] <greycat> GAH, mouse is hard to use. Anyway. You had "zone=" in the error. I do not see "zone=" in this config file snippet.
• 2927[21:19:55] *** Quits: noodlepie (~phillip@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2928[21:20:07] *** Quits: slv (~slv@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2929[21:20:10] <greycat> That makes it really hard to interpret the error.
• 2930[21:20:35] <shmam> yeah my config doesn't have 'zone=' in it so I'm also very confused lol
• 2931[21:21:00] *** Joins: fus (~quassel@replaced-ip)
• 2932[21:21:16] <jhutchins_wk> xparanoik: `Since you removed your domain name, we don't know if it's something about that. Is your domain registerd (presumably with cloudflare)?
• 2933[21:21:24] <shmam> I found a random blog post with a cloudflare config with 'zone=*cloudflare-domain*' so I'm going to try that
• 2934[21:21:24] *** Quits: conta1 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: conta1)
• 2935[21:21:35] <mutante> shmam: all lines are key=value, except line 6? that doesn't have a key?
• 2936[21:21:45] <shmam> My domain is registered through another provider, cloudflare just does dns
• 2937[21:21:52] <mutante> and it ends in comma?
• 2938[21:22:09] <shmam> mutante: From what I understand, that's how it's supposed to be
• 2939[21:22:16] *** bashes4 is now known as bashes
• 2940[21:22:26] <mutante> what if you replace "," with a dot"
• 2941[21:22:26] *** Joins: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip)
• 2942[21:22:37] <mutante> that would seem more natural for a DNS name
• 2943[21:23:07] <shmam> I think it's just an optional trailing comma so that you can add subdomains
• 2944[21:23:11] *** Joins: dez (uid92154@replaced-ip)
• 2945[21:23:16] <mutante> ah, ok
• 2946[21:23:25] <shmam> just a guess tho, idk
• 2947[21:23:39] <jhutchins_wk> No, no comma.
• 2948[21:23:43] <mutante> does the name have any illegal characters or start with a number or something?
• 2949[21:23:54] *** Joins: vutral (~vutral@replaced-ip)
• 2950[21:23:56] *** Quits: vutral (~vutral@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2951[21:24:11] <jhutchins_wk> mutante: According to the docs on github it's just the fqdn
• 2952[21:24:21] <shmam> adding 'zone=<REMOVED-mydomain>' seemed to fix that issue
• 2953[21:24:28] *** coderayn is now known as CrystalMath
• 2954[21:24:32] <shmam> no idea what it does but we're gonna roll with it for now
• 2955[21:24:33] <mutante> ok, and whatever string you have is not a valid FQDN
• 2956[21:24:35] <mutante> that's what it tells us
• 2957[21:24:54] *** Quits: acelogic (~acelogic@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2958[21:25:28] <shmam> now getting `DEBUG: get_ip: using ip, ip reports <undefined> WARNING: unable to determine IP address`
• 2959[21:25:53] <mutante> you can't reveal what is redacted on line 6, can you?
• 2960[21:25:56] *** Joins: ghoti (~paul@replaced-ip)
• 2961[21:26:00] <mutante> there seems to be the problem
• 2962[21:26:12] *** Joins: Streusel (~Anonymous@replaced-ip)
• 2963[21:26:32] <jhutchins_wk> It's rather silly if it's a host on the internet and soon-to-be in DNS.
• 2964[21:26:37] <mutante> i'd still try removing that comma
• 2965[21:26:37] *** Quits: queip (~queip@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 2966[21:26:43] *** Joins: timahvo1 (~rogue@replaced-ip)
• 2967[21:27:01] *** Quits: krabador (~krabador@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2968[21:27:03] *** Quits: mihi (~mihi@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2969[21:27:47] <tharkun> Good $DAY I am looking for a nice bug tracking tool besides bugzilla. I ask here because google is only displaying some expensive platforms.
• 2970[21:27:52] <mutante> are you trying to use your own domain or something there? but you can only use something like yoursubdomain.dyndns.com or whatever?
• 2971[21:28:04] *** Joins: thelastjedi_ (~quassel@replaced-ip)
• 2972[21:28:10] <shmam> I think the config is ok now but something is misconfigured with ddclient getting my local ip
• 2973[21:28:58] <mutante> tharkun: it's more than a bug tracker, but a bug tracker is part of it and it's modular replaced-url
• 2974[21:29:12] <jhutchins_wk> shmam: Is your public IP on your server or is it on a router?
• 2975[21:29:15] <greycat> if it's called from dhclient-exit-hooks it should receive the IP address in an environment variable
• 2976[21:29:41] <jhutchins_wk> router/firewall
• 2977[21:29:53] *** Joins: vutral (vutral@replaced-ip)
• 2978[21:30:04] <mutante> tharkun: replaced-url
• 2979[21:30:07] *** Joins: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip)
• 2980[21:30:29] <shmam> it's connected to a router
• 2981[21:30:43] <jhutchins_wk> tharkun: We're shunning bugzilla why?
• 2982[21:30:59] <mutante> tharkun: finally replaced-url
• 2983[21:31:05] *** Quits: vutral (vutral@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2984[21:31:31] <mutante> and managed to avoid mentioning any Atlassian products and stick to foss. heh
• 2985[21:31:55] <jelly> jira!
• 2986[21:32:04] <jhutchins_wk> shmam: Then you have to enable the mechanism that queries the router. Many routers come with a ddns client installed.
• 2987[21:32:26] *** Joins: queip (~queip@replaced-ip)
• 2988[21:32:44] <mutante> jelly: boooh, non-free .. hate as an admin ..it's a black box.. but unfortunately for users it's nice :P
• 2989[21:32:49] <shmam> oh boy this is going to be very difficult. TDS insisted in installing cascading routers so this computer is really behind two routers
• 2990[21:32:57] <mutante> i mean.. yea.. the workflow capabilities are powerful
• 2991[21:32:59] <jhutchins_wk> shmam: If you may have a sample config file in /usr/share/doc/ddclient*
• 2992[21:33:03] <tharkun> jhutchins_wk: no particular reason but some of the develpment team members are "special". (Don't ask me anymore please)
• 2993[21:33:10] <jelly> mutante: also free to use for small teams that manage open sauce
• 2994[21:33:12] * tds wonders what I've done now
• 2995[21:33:33] <jhutchins_wk> tharkun: No worries, we've all been there.
• 2996[21:33:42] <mutante> jelly: kind of like github.. all the free software projects use it but it's not free itself..
• 2997[21:33:45] <jelly> but it's cloud, and "cloud" means someone else's computers
• 2998[21:34:03] <shmam> the isp tds
• 2999[21:34:10] <tharkun> jhutchins_wk: Thanks I appreciate your words.
• 3000[21:34:13] <shmam> not you tds, ur fine lol
• 3001[21:34:18] <tds> :)
• 3002[21:34:20] *** Joins: mitrokov (~mitrokov@replaced-ip)
• 3003[21:34:22] *** Joins: srgg (~srgg@replaced-ip)
• 3004[21:34:38] *** Seto_Kaiba is now known as Hunterkll
• 3005[21:34:54] <shmam> hmm this may not be very possible
• 3006[21:35:09] *** Joins: Uchu_98 (b9fd618f@replaced-ip)
• 3007[21:35:10] <jhutchins_wk> tharkun: jira isn't free but it's reasonable. It does get pricey for large teams.
• 3008[21:35:14] *** Joins: vutral (~vutral@replaced-ip)
• 3009[21:35:22] <Uchu_98> Hello. I am going to start my Live show in a few minutes. I have 2 free vip invitations left (normally $14.99/30 minutes). Enter now if you are interested and write in the chat "Free Invite" ---> replaced-url
• 3010[21:35:30] <umbSublime> tharkun: gitlab issue tracker maybe ?
• 3011[21:35:31] *** Quits: vutral (~vutral@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3012[21:35:34] *** Quits: Uchu_98 (b9fd618f@replaced-ip) (Disconnected by services)
• 3013[21:35:41] <shmam> lmao what was that
• 3014[21:35:50] <tharkun> jhutchins_wk: Looking into my monitor? :D I was just at their url
• 3015[21:36:01] *** Quits: grobi (~rtng@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 3016[21:36:20] <tds> shmam - iirc ddclient should be able to detect your public IP from behind nat and regularly send updates, vs monitoring an interface on the machine?
• 3017[21:36:24] <tharkun> umbSublime: We host our own git repositories which has proven a life saver within this project.
• 3018[21:36:31] <jhutchins_wk> tharkun: jira is what practically all OS teams use.
• 3019[21:37:31] <umbSublime> you can selfhost gitlab. Also you could use _just_ the issue tracking part
• 3020[21:38:08] *** Quits: timahvo1 (~rogue@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3021[21:38:08] <tharkun> umbSublime: gitlab interesting. I will also look into it.
• 3022[21:38:23] *** Quits: Erreur32 (~Erreur32@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3023[21:38:29] <umbSublime> Altough now that I think of it, I'm not sure that feature is part of the "free" offer :/
• 3024[21:39:37] <umbSublime> also maybe it's minumal compared to Jira, but there is gitkraken's "glo board"
• 3025[21:39:53] <tharkun> umbSublime: I am currently using a selfmade frankenstein that uses git, taskwarrior, and stmp support. But that is my cli solution to gsd.
• 3026[21:40:02] <tharkun> smtp
• 3027[21:40:45] *** Joins: vutral (vutral@replaced-ip)
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• 3029[21:40:45] *** Joins: vutral (vutral@replaced-ip)
• 3030[21:40:49] *** Quits: thePiGrepper (~nagato@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 3031[21:42:46] <jhutchins_wk> shmam: Are you familiar with services like whatsmyip.com? There are ddns clients that will use those.
• 3032[21:43:00] *** Joins: Theudobald (~Theudobal@replaced-ip)
• 3033[21:43:11] <jhutchins_wk> shmam: I haven't dug deep enough to know if ddclient will.
• 3034[21:43:27] <greycat> Sounds like he's trying to run a Dyndns client on a machine that isn't actually the one getting the IP address from DHCP. That's... just not right.
• 3035[21:43:39] <greycat> How does it know *when* to fire?
• 3036[21:43:55] <jhutchins_wk> shmam: replaced-url
• 3037[21:44:13] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: You can set an interval in the config.
• 3038[21:44:52] <greycat> So you just count on it being *wrong* for hours at a time if your IP changes?
• 3039[21:45:10] <greycat> Polling like a windows user?
• 3040[21:45:20] <mutante> host.and.domain[,host2.and.domain...]
• 3041[21:45:30] <mutante> ^ that comma is not outside the brackets...
• 3042[21:45:38] <jhutchins_wk> shmam: use=web
• 3043[21:46:04] <mutante> so i bet that is still bad inside an FQDN unless followed by a second FQDN
• 3044[21:46:05] *** Quits: integral (~bsmith@replaced-ip) (Changing host)
• 3045[21:46:05] *** Joins: integral (~bsmith@replaced-ip)
• 3046[21:46:11] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: They suggeest a 300 second interval.
• 3047[21:46:13] <jelly> greycat: firing it from crontab is often good enough
• 3048[21:46:19] <greycat> *vomit*
• 3049[21:46:24] <jhutchins_wk> shmam: That uses dyndns.org
• 3050[21:46:50] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: Well, dynamic DNS is pretty much a kludge from the start.
• 3051[21:47:02] <greycat> Granted, but that's a good reason not to make it *worse*.
• 3052[21:47:34] *** Joins: patterson (~patterson@replaced-ip)
• 3053[21:47:43] <jelly> I use a 2€/month VM and my own VPN to keep things accessible, instead
• 3054[21:49:12] *** Joins: digin4 (~digin4@replaced-ip)
• 3055[21:49:49] <jhutchins_wk> I've found over the years since I first had an always-up connection that my IP rarely changes. It does change, say if I replace the modem or take the modem off-line for a while (power outage). Sometimes the provider arbitrarily changes it.
• 3056[21:50:18] <jhutchins_wk> Then I've worked with Mexican Telecom, where they do forced changes regularly.
• 3057[21:50:49] <jhutchins_wk> Telmex
• 3058[21:51:38] *** Joins: thePiGrepper (~nagato@replaced-ip)
• 3059[21:51:48] <mutante> it should really just be a simple option all the ISP customers can check or not "IP static or dynamic"
• 3060[21:51:52] <jelly> it's more like you arbitrarily kept the same IP, because of how ISP-side dhcp or radius worked
• 3061[21:52:05] <jelly> mutante: it is, you usually pay $$$ for static.
• 3062[21:52:06] <mutante> but i guess ISPs have more customers than IPs
• 3063[21:52:15] <mutante> it's like overbooking flights
• 3064[21:52:48] <mutante> jelly: if at least that's an option that's already a "good" provider to me, heh
• 3065[21:53:12] *** Joins: copngcurhat (~androirc@replaced-ip)
• 3066[21:53:26] *** Joins: RebelCoder (~RebelCode@replaced-ip)
• 3067[21:53:27] <jelly> more customer node than IPs is a recent development, more common with mobile networks. Then you get CGNAT and share IP with 1 or more customers.
• 3068[21:53:51] *** Quits: we6jbo (~we6jbo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3069[21:54:09] <mutante> yea, shmam , maybe just cough up 2 bucks extra or whatever they want and consider it part of the Internet cost but in return don't have to deal with the whole dynamic updating a name?
• 3070[21:54:12] <jelly> and you forget about being able to port forward
• 3071[21:54:31] <greycat> 2 bucks? no.
• 3072[21:54:56] <jelly> 2 bucks for a cheap VPS.
• 3073[21:55:10] <greycat> A cheap VPS is much cheaper than static IP on home ISP.
• 3074[21:55:11] <jelly> static IP here is around $60 a month
• 3075[21:55:12] *** Quits: esro (~esro@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3076[21:55:17] *** Joins: BCMM (~BCMM@replaced-ip)
• 3077[21:55:21] <mutante> oops. what
• 3078[21:55:22] <greycat> it's $20 a month here
• 3079[21:55:45] <mutante> because IPv4 became so rare now? isn't IPv6 enough
• 3080[21:56:12] <jelly> sure, go ahead and connect to your home systems over ipv6 :-)
• 3081[21:56:38] <greycat> I have yet to see a non-local IPv6 address on any computer. It's just not a *thing* in some places.
• 3082[21:56:41] <tds> plenty of mobile networks are ipv6-only with nat64 to talk to the legacy world these days :)
• 3083[21:56:45] * dvs hides his $5/month
• 3084[21:56:48] <jelly> or assume that everyone has a working dual stack where ipv6 actually works by default
• 3085[21:57:30] <mutante> meanwhile companies are offering money to "buy back" IPv4 space.. guess the prices need to go up to make it a thing
• 3086[21:57:45] <jelly> greycat: but if you have extra /24s you can make a pretty penny selling them off!
• 3087[21:57:58] <tds> throw web services behind a reverse proxy with ipv4 connectivity, proxyjump via a bastion host for ssh, etc, and you can happily run ipv6-only servers :)
• 3088[21:58:27] <shmam> sorry, had to do something quickly but back now. Read over the chat logs and it makes sense that this should be running somewhere else so that it can get called when the ip updates instead of polling. So would that be the top level router then?
• 3089[21:58:53] *** Quits: lysander__ (~lysander_@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3090[21:58:55] <greycat> many consumer routers have their own built-in dyndns support
• 3091[21:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1508
• 3092[21:59:04] *** Quits: yokel (~yokel@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 3093[21:59:40] *** Quits: astrofog (~astrofog@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3094[21:59:44] *** Joins: toadstar (~bison@replaced-ip)
• 3095[21:59:52] <shmam> wow this router actually has it!
• 3096[21:59:58] <fred1807> what does "nmcli networking connectivity check" checks?
• 3097[22:00:08] *** Quits: mniip (mniip@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 608 seconds)
• 3098[22:00:11] <jelly> just don't use dyndns.org, Oracle is shutting it down
• 3099[22:00:15] <shmam> but it only works with dyndns or no-ip >_>
• 3100[22:00:20] *** Joins: yokel (~yokel@replaced-ip)
• 3101[22:00:26] <shmam> dyndns.com*
• 3102[22:00:33] <mutante> usually the router supports like 3 different services that all cost money or are down and the 4th one you want isn't in the list
• 3103[22:00:38] <mutante> heh, knew it
• 3104[22:00:55] <jelly> I think no-ip nags every 30 days but is still freeish?
• 3105[22:01:21] <umbSublime> oracle recently announced it would stop free accounts on dyndns.org by 2020
• 3106[22:01:52] <greycat> just seeing the word "Oracle" should be enough to send you running away as fast as possible
• 3107[22:01:56] <umbSublime> ^
• 3108[22:01:58] <shmam> ^
• 3109[22:02:14] <jelly> carets are for bunnies
• 3110[22:02:17] <jelly> not irc
• 3111[22:02:20] *** Quits: spacebison (~bison@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 3112[22:02:22] *** Quits: Iarfen (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3113[22:02:40] <shmam> but they're so convenient
• 3114[22:02:54] *** Quits: thePiGrepper (~nagato@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 3115[22:02:58] *** Parts: lessless (~lessless@replaced-ip) ("Bye-bye")
• 3116[22:03:47] *** Quits: dbristow (~dbristow@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 3117[22:05:36] <Kobaz> trying to use socat to send the contents of a file... here's what I have so far: socat -v -dddd -u TCP:127.0.0.1:5038 OPEN:sendfile,creat
• 3118[22:05:48] <Kobaz> but it's not sending the file, it just gets the header from the (line-based) server
• 3119[22:06:13] <Habbie> is your file called 'sendfile'?
• 3120[22:06:36] <Kobaz> sure is
• 3121[22:06:57] <greycat> well that's not confusing at all...
• 3122[22:06:59] *** Joins: dbristow (~dbristow@replaced-ip)
• 3123[22:06:59] *** Quits: dbristow (~dbristow@replaced-ip) (Changing host)
• 3124[22:06:59] *** Joins: dbristow (~dbristow@replaced-ip)
• 3125[22:07:13] <Kobaz> just playing around, i'll have better file names shortly
• 3126[22:07:45] <Kobaz> how about: socat -v -dddd -u TCP:127.0.0.1:5038 OPEN:sending_this_file_to_the_other_side,creat
• 3127[22:07:47] *** Quits: ibalerio (~ibalerio@replaced-ip##) (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (##replaced-url
• 3128[22:07:50] <shmam> any reason not to use scp?
• 3129[22:08:27] <Kobaz> because scp is not the correct tool to send commands to an artibtrary service
• 3130[22:08:36] <shmam> nvm just read man socat
• 3131[22:08:48] <Kobaz> right, that's what i've been doing, and i'm stuck here
• 3132[22:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1502
• 3133[22:09:02] <Kobaz> i basically get the header from the service and then the file doesn't send
• 3134[22:09:07] <Kobaz> not sure what's missing
• 3135[22:09:08] <jhutchins_wk> Kobaz: netcat
• 3136[22:09:21] <jelly> socat is just a more powerful netcat
• 3137[22:09:27] <Habbie> netcat might be easier here, but it should be doable with socat
• 3138[22:09:30] <Habbie> why are you passing ,creat?
• 3139[22:09:39] <jelly> but files should probably not be sent to arbitrary services either, what's wrong with the usual tar | nc idiom?
• 3140[22:09:42] <Kobaz> Habbie: not sure, it's in the example i'm following
• 3141[22:10:01] <Habbie> Kobaz, that sounds like it's an example for reading from a socket and writing to a file
• 3142[22:10:07] <Kobaz> mm
• 3143[22:10:15] <Kobaz> could use netcat i suppose
• 3144[22:10:27] <Habbie> what kind of service are you talking to?
• 3145[22:10:36] <Kobaz> asterisk manager interface
• 3146[22:10:45] <Kobaz> i have a whole framwork i usually use, but this is a one-off
• 3147[22:10:50] <mutante> TCP: just says it "connects"
• 3148[22:10:50] *** Quits: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3149[22:10:50] <greycat> my initial problem just looking at it, with zero socat knowledge, was "OPEN:sendfile,creat" looked like you were setting two options for what would happen upon an "OPEN", whatever an "OPEN" is, and then there was no file name given
• 3150[22:11:08] <mutante> but there is "SOCKET-SENDTO: and others that actually say "sends outgoing data"
• 3151[22:11:13] <Habbie> greycat, i thought that too but the socat manpage does not mention a 'sendfile' option
• 3152[22:11:32] <Kobaz> no, sendfile is not an option
• 3153[22:11:41] <Kobaz> it's a paramter containing the filename to send
• 3154[22:11:51] <Kobaz> 'sendfild' is my test
• 3155[22:11:55] <Kobaz> *file...
• 3156[22:12:41] <mutante> Kobaz: as i read the man page, the "TCP:" command only promises to 'connect' but not more
• 3157[22:12:49] <Kobaz> oh
• 3158[22:12:52] <Kobaz> i had it backwards
• 3159[22:12:52] <mutante> which would maybe match what you are seeing
• 3160[22:12:53] *** Quits: Hestben (~robert@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
• 3161[22:13:06] <Kobaz> socat -u FILE:send TCP:127.0.0.1:5038
• 3162[22:13:09] <Kobaz> there you go
• 3163[22:13:14] <mutante> aha :)
• 3164[22:13:35] <Kobaz> and in this case 'send' is my arbitrarily named file to send
• 3165[22:13:54] <jhutchins_wk> Kobaz: testfile is a good placeholder for things like that.
• 3166[22:13:57] <mutante> i can't find "FILE:" in my man page
• 3167[22:13:59] *** Joins: electro33 (uid613@replaced-ip)
• 3168[22:14:26] *** Joins: hypn0 (~h@replaced-ip)
• 3169[22:14:34] <jelly> Kobaz: are you trying to send a file to the service, or read something from service and write it to a file?
• 3170[22:14:39] <Kobaz> neither can i.. but... replaced-url
• 3171[22:14:46] <Kobaz> client$ socat -u FILE:test.txt TCP:127.0.0.1:9876
• 3172[22:14:54] <jelly> right, input then output
• 3173[22:15:09] <Kobaz> jelly: send input to service, don't care about any output
• 3174[22:15:21] *** Quits: zeden (~user@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.4)
• 3175[22:15:22] <jelly> the service _IS_ output
• 3176[22:15:22] <mutante> Kobaz: what about "UNIX-SENDTO:" "IP-SENDTO:
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• 3178[22:16:18] <mutante> UDP-SENDTO: shrug
• 3179[22:16:27] <Kobaz> IP-SENDTO looks very low level
• 3180[22:16:32] <jelly> but really, nc 127.0.0.1 5038 < file
• 3181[22:16:53] <mutante> back to netcat.. clearly "more powerful" also means wasting time with more than you need, hehe
• 3182[22:16:54] <Kobaz> right yeah
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• 3184[22:17:16] <Kobaz> i usually use socat because i wind up needing stuff netcat doesn't have
• 3185[22:17:17] <Kobaz> but yeah
• 3186[22:17:29] <Habbie> also netcat is not portable, but socat is
• 3187[22:17:33] <greycat> sometimes you *only* need it to toast the bread, not to harvest the wheat and grid it into flour....
• 3188[22:17:33] <Kobaz> or i'm on systems with socat but no netcat
• 3189[22:17:49] <Kobaz> they have some dumbed down nc that doesn't do udp for example, like on ubnt edgerouter
• 3190[22:17:59] <greycat> but you're not connecting to UDP
• 3191[22:18:02] <Kobaz> right
• 3192[22:18:06] <Kobaz> but it was my go-to
• 3193[22:18:12] <Kobaz> but anyway
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• 3195[22:18:14] <Kobaz> yeah this is good
• 3196[22:18:33] <jelly> socat STDIN TCP:localhost:5038 < file ? :-)
• 3197[22:18:35] <greycat> if it's your go-to, you need to brush up on how to use it
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• 3199[22:18:53] * jelly reduces the problem to a known one
• 3200[22:19:09] <Kobaz> haha well, never sent a file with socat, so... i was brushing indeed
• 3201[22:19:29] <Kobaz> well, file in this way... i've done stdin before
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• 3205[22:20:44] <jelly> I mean socat is great if you have to proxy from tcp to unix socket or to ssl and avoid stunnel, okay, but this is not complex
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• 3207[22:21:17] <Kobaz> right
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• 3231[22:37:15] <JustTheDoctor_> so i am working with a Linode Deb 9 VPS and when i type apt dist upgrade or apt-dist upgrade im getting a command not found am i doing something wrong?
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• 3233[22:37:46] <somiaj> it is apt dist-upgrade
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• 3235[22:37:57] <greycat> it's actually "apt full-upgrade" or "apt-get dist-upgrade"
• 3236[22:37:58] <somiaj> though be careful, isn't linode using a shared kernel?
• 3237[22:38:05] <JustTheDoctor_> greycat, thank you
• 3238[22:38:10] <somiaj> I think apt supports both dist-upgrade and full-upgrade
• 3239[22:38:14] <greycat> probably
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• 3241[22:38:41] <JustTheDoctor_> the commands greycat gave me worked, both of them.. looks like i am upto date
• 3242[22:38:46] <somiaj> For some reason I have a vague memeory of linode (though maybe I'm thinking of something else) using a container like system with a shared kernel, and sometimes you can't just upgarde your debian version due to this.
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• 3244[22:38:57] <greycat> did you remember to "apt-get update" before that?
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• 3246[22:39:00] <JustTheDoctor_> now i have to figure out how to do a couple of simple things without reading a tutorial or asking for help.
• 3247[22:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1495
• 3248[22:39:02] <somiaj> JustTheDoctor_: ahh, you must doing the 9.8 upgrade, usually one only needs upgrade.
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• 3268[22:49:49] <dvs> How rude! 69 bugs left!
• 3269[22:49:55] <Habbie> could have been 420
• 3270[22:49:59] <dvs> true
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• 3281[22:53:27] <Kobaz> somiaj: unless you're upgrading from an ancient debian, 99% of the packages are kernel-agnostic
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• 3283[22:53:50] * albertnpc5 wahahaha losers
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• 3292[22:55:19] <somiaj> Kobaz: Depends on how acient, but there is often reasons why that didn't work, intrudction of udev, introduction of systemd, and so on. I don't think the curent releases matter, but that doens't mean some new change will require some new kernel feature needed in a modern kernel.
• 3293[22:55:42] <somiaj> But yes, I don't think it is an issue with jessie->stretch->buster recent chain
• 3294[22:55:55] <Kobaz> somiaj: exactly
• 3295[22:56:06] <greycat> (it's why mine is still on wheezy)
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• 3297[22:56:13] <Kobaz> heh
• 3298[22:56:17] <Kobaz> i still have a box or two on wheezy
• 3299[22:56:39] <Kobaz> been testing with buster, still working out the bugs/issues with removing systemd
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• 3301[22:56:59] <m4ch1n3znc> greycat with grey wheezy boxes
• 3302[22:57:01] <m4ch1n3znc> :3
• 3303[22:57:55] <somiaj> It wouldn't not supprise me that systemd will introduce some new feature that requires a new kernel.
• 3304[22:58:09] <somiaj> So one should always check if using a shared kernel with the host before doing a actual dist-upgrade
• 3305[22:58:31] <Kobaz> or spin up a test vm, have at it, upgrade and see what breaks
• 3306[22:58:34] <somiaj> wheezy is even still supported via ELTS (or did that finally loose funding)
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• 3310[22:58:42] <greycat> Buster requires a 3.2 kernel, so don't attempt an upgrade to buster on a squeeze kernel.
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• 3312[22:58:45] <somiaj> yea, testing it first is good.
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• 3318[23:00:47] <jhutchins_wk> ..also checking your provider's documentation.
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• 3323[23:03:16] <jhutchins_wk> There's stuff kicking around that requires a 2.6 kernel.
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• 3378[23:47:10] <Kon-> In the context of the cdimages listings, what's the difference between the "cd" directories and the "image" directories?
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• 3384[23:55:39] <Tom-_> i think the images are the vmlinuz and initrd image that go on the CDs
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• 3386[23:55:51] <Tom-_> confusing i know
• 3387[23:55:59] <Tom-_> this is debian
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