Realtime Nick Name Ticker of #debian at freenode (ICQ IRC service)

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7[00:06:24] <roylaprattep> the joy of upgrading...
8[00:06:36] <roylaprattep> many new very small little things...
9[00:06:44] <tfgbd_> Are you on a chroot?
10[00:06:53] <tfgbd_> Whats your kernel version?
11[00:07:11] <tfgbd_> Mine is sid (I think) on 3.10
12[00:07:23] <roylaprattep> 4.9.0-9-amd64
13[00:07:38] <tfgbd_> Mine is amd64 (Intel) too
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23[00:15:45] <Tenkawa> wow cant believe how hot is out
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39[00:28:50] <roylaprattep> nevermind my last question
40[00:29:03] <roylaprattep> this line is automatically added because i am login with ssh key pair
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43[00:29:24] <roylaprattep> Authenticating with public key "imported-openssh-key" from agent
44[00:29:24] <roylaprattep> Linux debian-prlsvr 4.9.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.168-1+deb9u3 (2019-06-16) x86_64
45[00:30:01] <roylaprattep> i was using password authentication before... thats why this line wasnt there!
46[00:30:32] <roylaprattep> remember this guys! ;)
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49[00:32:06] <jmcnaught> No it's definitely /etc/update-motd.d/10-uname
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73[01:05:23] <f8e3> i have a lost+found since last crash
74[01:05:33] <f8e3> do i need to check the disk ext4 sth?
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76[01:06:08] <kale> f8e3: there is usually a lost+found, even on a newly created filesystem
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88[01:15:57] <roylaprattep> f8e3: in your home dir?
89[01:15:59] <roylaprattep> normal
90[01:16:39] <roylaprattep> jmcnaught: password authentication, i dont have this line...
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143[02:27:02] * cybrNaut enabled XDMCP for gnome 3 on debian. Remote machines get a GUI login screen, but after password entry the login screen returns
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153[02:34:18] <sloshy> thunar (1.8.4-1ubuntu1) disco; urgency=medium
154[02:34:18] <sloshy> * d/p/lp1822380.patch:
155[02:34:18] <sloshy> - Fix display of right-click menu (LP: #1822380)
156[02:34:18] <sloshy> -- Sean Davis <smd.seandavis@gmail.com> Mon, 15 Apr 2019 19:36:31 -0400
157[02:34:38] <sloshy> should probably add in this patch before the buster release
158[02:34:49] <sloshy> dont know why ubuntu's bugfixes dont go upstream
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160[02:36:14] <EdePopede> so they fix their bugs and don't report them upstream?
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163[02:37:25] <jmcnaught> cybrNaut: are you using X11 or Wayland?
164[02:37:26] <sloshy> its up to the user submitted the bug report to do that
165[02:37:34] <binaryhermit> rant:I'm starting to get fed up with ubuntu
166[02:37:47] <sloshy> and most of the time they dont care about debian because theyre running ubuntu
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170[02:40:29] <GTAXL> Anyone know what I got to change in FreeNAS to get Debian to mount?
171[02:40:30] <GTAXL> mount.nfs: requested NFS version or transport protocol is not supported
172[02:40:32] <sloshy> i dont know if that bug was even reported on xfce's bugzilla
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181[02:50:55] <sloshy> lol the developer of hexchat told me to switch to quassel the other day
182[02:51:08] <sloshy> because i mentioned that it crashes a lot on my system
183[02:53:44] <sloshy> i think ill just stick with irssi + screen
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185[02:54:54] <ytf0rd> FOIDS HATE ME AND GO FOR CHAD
186[02:55:00] <EdePopede> no, he did because you made the impression that development doesn't go fast enough for you, and then you came up with quassel yourself stating than "people are switching to [it] now"
187[02:55:31] <ytf0rd> i need help
188[02:56:14] <ytf0rd> my package manger broke
189[02:56:16] <sloshy> devs need to spend more time coding and less time arguing on irc
190[02:56:20] <sloshy> or github
191[02:56:30] <sloshy> gotta get er done
192[02:56:41] <EdePopede> and you just mentioned that it crashes a lot, but nothing more. i had no crashes at all on stretch with hexchat, so something may be different on your system
193[02:56:42] <ytf0rd> apt says error 127
194[02:56:58] <sloshy> shush
195[02:57:09] <ytf0rd> my computer has a virus
196[02:57:22] <ytf0rd> ive never used linux before help
197[02:57:23] <EdePopede> how do you now how much time they spend on irc or with coding?
198[02:57:42] <sloshy> install norton antivirus internet security suite: linux edition
199[02:57:58] <ytf0rd> OK FOID I BET YOUR GETTING FUCKED BY CHAD AND TYRONE I HOPE YOU GET AIDS
200[02:58:19] <Tenkawa> ok.. time for an op
201[02:58:20] <ytf0rd> WHY DO YOU HATE THE NICE GUYS
202[02:58:27] <sloshy> brutal troll you totally destroyed him
203[02:58:30] <jmcnaught> !ops ytf0rd
204[02:58:30] <dpkg> Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: jmcnaught complains about a problem (see above)
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206[02:58:53] <ytf0rd> holly shit
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208[02:59:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1491
209[02:59:07] <DiamondTeen98> Hello. I decided to try something that I've never tried. I will go Live in a CAM site & I am sure it will be fun! The site gave me 5 Free Invites, so I am going to give them to 5 people that are interested. Join for FREE and send "Free Invite" in my CAM room ---> replaced-url
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211[02:59:22] <EdePopede> live?
212[02:59:23] <ytf0rd> WHY DO YOU HATE THE NICE GUYS
213[02:59:29] <EdePopede> with a live debian you mean?
214[02:59:47] <Tenkawa> uggh more spam
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242[03:14:28] <ytf0rd> fuck you guys and foids i bet your all getting fucked by chad right now
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250[03:18:35] *** ytf0rd was kicked by themill (On the Internet nobody can hear you being subtle.)
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313[04:16:19] <cybrNaut> jmcnaught: i had to switch to X11 b/c wayland can't do xdmcp
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371[05:27:45] <roylaprattep> Just finished reconfiguring my Fail2Ban jails. Only 1 service remaining.
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406[06:16:29] <eblip> hey does anyone develop python on debian, if so what ide do they use
407[06:16:34] <eblip> i cant find pycharm or atom
408[06:21:00] <eblip> is it dodgy to install from source...as maybe it will affect the rest of my debian install
409[06:21:17] <teksimian> i downloaded the dpkg from atom's site.
410[06:21:30] <teksimian> it wasnt in the repo,
411[06:22:04] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip) ("vergissmeinnicht")
412[06:22:06] <eblip> yes i noticed, but im a bit worried that installing stuff from outside the repo is dangerous..firstly for updates and secondly it may expect something different to the debain filesystem
413[06:22:28] <teksimian> its not ideal.
414[06:22:34] <eblip> ah ok
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428[06:38:09] <EdePopede> it's just one package with no rdependencies? maybe it is possible to unpack it into /usr/local or /opt. and check what the inst scripts are doing.
429[06:38:22] *** bigcake is now known as Guest24797
430[06:38:41] <eblip> ah i was just told that Ubuntu seems to have pycharm via snap install
431[06:38:58] <eblip> so im gonna try and find out what snap install means and see if debain has it
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433[06:40:04] <EdePopede> ah right there's also snap. maybe i'll get used to this fact one day xD
434[06:40:28] <EdePopede> .flatpak
435[06:40:31] <EdePopede> no?
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440[06:44:11] <EdePopede> !flatpak
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442[06:44:27] * EdePopede feels ignored by the bot
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615[08:31:44] <andre144k> hi all
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665[09:11:12] <floraline> hi
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684[09:25:43] <jeddi> eblip - install the tarball to ~/bin/ ... works well, including self updates.
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689[09:28:53] <blackflow> eblip: no, don't do that. you don't want software capable of modifying itself. I install PyCharm from their tarball, straight to /opt/pycharm/ and symlink its pycharm.sh to ~/bin/ . Works out of the box like that, confined to one dir, no problemo. Snap is too much overhead and mount namespacing mess for my taste.
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701[09:33:36] <jeddi> yeah, i wouldn't advocate snap either.
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703[09:37:53] <blackflow> snaps also auto-update and you have no control over that. I like to run updates when I'm not in the middle of coding session.
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705[09:38:22] <blackflow> (because using the pycharm snap already caused me grief due to autoupdate and sudden changes mid-work)
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741[10:15:45] <jelly> which nagios-compatible monitoring system is in vogue these days? Still icinga?
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751[10:22:50] <kawaii> Yeah Icinga2 is pretty good.
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775[10:42:04] <laughingtiger> hey guys, yesterday I said there was a network problem within buster. now I tested both stretch and buster, and here's the differences I found with ethtool: replaced-url
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777[10:43:36] <laughingtiger> clearly sth was wrong within buster, when using wireshark to capture packages, there were a lot of tcp package lost, while as in stretch, there were none. the speed testing was normal in stretch.
778[10:44:37] <laughingtiger> replaced-url
779[10:45:01] <laughingtiger> pls help me. I'm afraid this is as far as I can go now.
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870[11:49:59] <jelly> augh, context diff
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877[11:56:51] <ihristov> Some of the links here replaced-url
878[11:57:18] <ihristov> for example the "http locations" part
879[11:57:35] <ihristov> The Live images also
880[11:58:16] <jelly> ihristov, "BE AWARE that anything found there is not considered to be a released image and may be replaced without warning"
881[11:58:55] <ihristov> I know but I just want to test the live images :)
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883[11:59:13] <ihristov> Thanks anyway
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885[11:59:45] <blackflow> ihristov: replaced-url
886[11:59:45] <jelly> start at replaced-url
887[11:59:56] <jelly> rc3 is from last night or so
888[12:00:05] <ihristov> jelly thanks :)
889[12:00:13] <jelly> but not live
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895[12:01:52] <jelly> ihristov, sorry, that's not live image, it's debian-installer only
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897[12:02:28] <blackflow> replaced-url
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899[12:03:12] <jelly> are a couple days older
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901[12:03:30] <jelly> and those are automated builds, not RC
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905[12:05:53] <bolt> What's the opposite of openvt? Can I somehow close it again without simply killing the process it's running?
906[12:08:05] <bolt> oh. deallocvt
907[12:08:25] <jim> hi. in first steps of upgrading a stretch to buster, apt update returns this: replaced-url
908[12:08:35] <jim> !bat
909[12:08:35] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
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913[12:09:28] <jim> for (2), there aren't packages yet, just did the update
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918[12:11:07] <jim> here's (3): replaced-url
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921[12:12:41] <jim> I'll check back in a bit, (as usual) highlight me to let me know to check
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929[12:18:37] <finn0> Is there any Matrix client avilable on Debian official repo?
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931[12:20:11] <Habbie> finn0, packages.debian.org can tell you
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942[12:28:03] <finn0> Sadly no.
943[12:28:21] <jelly> finn0, apt-cache search matrix client shows only a reference server implementation, on buster
944[12:28:29] <jelly> no clients
945[12:28:58] <jim> something for the devs to work on :)
946[12:29:22] <finn0> jelly: I found this blog ( replaced-url
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966[12:56:37] <luna_> Debian 10 Test Day Today: replaced-url
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973[13:04:43] <jelly> luna_, those images have already been removed
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982[13:07:40] <jelly> or do not exist yet
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985[13:08:21] <jelly> ihristov, now that I've read it again, the page says those links will only start existing on 2019-07-06
986[13:08:38] <jelly> ihristov, so this is expected behaviour
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1020[13:27:21] <dandernine> Is it possible to install Debian on a mikrotik board?
1021[13:27:41] <JetyS> hello. what is the best way to connect FROM Debian to RDP? Aka best RDP client.
1022[13:28:00] <blackflow> dandernine: I've heard people have ventured there.... dunno if anyone returned.
1023[13:28:08] <dandernine> heh
1024[13:28:18] <blackflow> JetyS: Remmina?
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1027[13:30:06] <JetyS> ok, trying right now, thank you
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1032[13:31:07] <JetyS> remmina : Depends: libssh-4 (>= 0.8.1) but 0.7.3-2+deb9u2 is to be installed - but there are no current updates avail
1033[13:31:48] <JetyS> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
1034[13:31:51] <JetyS> any hints?
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1037[13:32:33] <blackflow> JetyS: broke your debian by mixing and matching across releases?
1038[13:33:04] <JetyS> nope, it's just a single minimal desktop fresh install
1039[13:33:13] <JetyS> the single thing I've done is apt-get update and apt-get dist-upgrade
1040[13:33:37] <jelly> JetyS, the version that works is in stretch-backports, so you need to fix your install command to get stuff from there
1041[13:33:54] <jelly> apt-get -t stretch-backports install ...
1042[13:33:57] <blackflow> ah yes, backports...
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1045[13:34:49] <jelly> JetyS, xfreerdp ought to work as well, it's command-line only and the package name is freerdp-x11
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1048[13:36:18] <JetyS> I was looking at that right now
1049[13:37:22] <JetyS> freerdp2-x11 or freerdp-x11?
1050[13:37:41] <jelly> freerdp2 is only from backports.
1051[13:38:11] <jelly> both ought to work
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1056[13:40:00] <JetyS> working, thanks!
1057[13:40:05] <JetyS> thanks for your help bye
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1072[13:49:28] <uio> Hi, I'm using Unison to sync a directory to a usb. I downloaded some files to the usb and ran unison sync. It says everything is updated, yet I can clearly see that the downloaded files have not been synced to the machine! Why might this be and how could I solve it? Also, if you happen to have other two-way sycing solutions with a GUI I might be in
1073[13:49:28] <uio> terested, but first I4ll have to make sure that I actually have the same files on the usb and one the machine! Thanks.
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1080[13:53:36] <n0a110w> with a gui? how about cli? cause man.. rsync is the way to go...
1081[13:53:44] <ayekat> rsync is one-way, though
1082[13:54:52] <n0a110w> well its dest/src but you can add --delete flag to delete extranous files and also switch the dest and src in the command...
1083[13:54:59] <ayekat> uio: I only vaguely remember using unison once about a year ago, but it worked fine back then - hard to tell based on just that information
1084[13:55:18] <ayekat> n0a110w: --delete is not the same as propagating changes both ways
1085[13:55:19] <uio> n0a110w Right sister, I've heard good things about rsync, but it's one way, and I had a bad experience with it in the past where I lost some work. Totally my fault... I may look into again....
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1090[13:56:15] <n0a110w> write your custom rsync cronjob exactly how you need. if you need it both ways, use two commands and swap the src/dest
1091[13:56:30] <uio> ayekat Yeah, I thought it was fine, I was having no issues, but then voilà ! Undetected files...
1092[13:56:46] <uio> n0a110w That's way above me, hence the need for a gui !
1093[13:56:53] <ayekat> n0a110w: that won't work - if you sync one way, then the second sync the other way will simply copy nothing, since both are now identical
1094[13:57:06] <n0a110w> i don' tknow anything about unison, but i would guess it uses rsync under the hood. most things do
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1097[13:57:20] <n0a110w> they won't be identical if you leave out the --delete flag
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1099[13:57:25] <uio> ayekat That's where I messed up before!
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1101[13:57:48] <n0a110w> rsync -rvz will copy src to dest. any extra files in dest will remain there. then you can rsync dest to src to get those extra files copied back over.. this is simple
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1105[13:58:31] <ayekat> n0a110w: and how do you propagate deleted files from one to the other? :-)
1106[13:58:41] <uio> n0a110w It might work well for you, but sorry, I'm not really looking into rsync for the moment. Just trying to figure out my unison issue...
1107[13:58:52] <n0a110w> rsync doesn't delete anything by default, you have to tell it to do so
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1109[13:59:43] <jelly> ayekat, by carefully reading the manual and --delete mentioned therein
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1113[14:00:55] * jelly has rsync cron jobs from A to B and also from B to A in places
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1116[14:01:10] * n0a110w nods to jelly
1117[14:01:41] <n0a110w> and you can create a --backup-dir to place all those extra files so you don't lose anything. also good to use -n or --dry-run so you don't lose all your shit on the first pass
1118[14:01:51] <jelly> because reasons, and reliable replicated, distributed filesystems for free were not a thing 10+ years ago
1119[14:02:19] <uio> Hmmm, well I tried copying one of the files from the usb to the machine manually, and ran unison again. Now unison is telling me that it wants to copy from the machine to the usb the file that I just copied FROM the usb. It would appear that this file is invisible to unison. Why?
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1122[14:04:56] <ayekat> jelly: unison is 20+ years old, though - also, I don't get what you are referring to with --delete: according to he man page, it deletes files on the destination that are not part of the sending side
1123[14:04:57] <n0a110w> permissions maybe?
1124[14:05:47] <n0a110w> you can make rsync do special things with the stuff it "--delete"(s)
1125[14:05:58] <uio> Permissions appear the same on that 'invisible' doc and another synced doc. I downloaded the file using a Windows machine (oh work...). Could that do it?
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1127[14:06:35] <uio> Also, comparing the two files in Thunar, usb has 2991 files. Machine has 2968 files, yet sync is 'complete'....
1128[14:06:59] <ayekat> n0a110w: you keep telling me how rsync is capable or doing special stuff with --delete, but give no examples
1129[14:07:01] <n0a110w> sounds like unison is broke
1130[14:07:12] <ayekat> here's the bottom of the rsync website: «If you need a 2-way synchronization because both ends of the transfer may be changing files, you may want to either look into a tool designed to do this (e.g. unison), or you may wish to use an external wrapper for rsync that keeps extra data about what was in the last transfer so that it can figure out if a file is new or deleted (e.g. drsync).»
1131[14:07:34] <uio> n0a110w broke indeed. Sigh.
1132[14:07:41] <ayekat> so unless you wrap rsync into a program that keep extra state information, rsync itself can't trivially perform a 2-way synchronisation
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1135[14:10:14] <uio> I do need to figure out what is wrong with the sync process to be able to properly sync missing files and to decide whether or not to get rid of unison...
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1139[14:12:41] <n0a110w> the semantics are funny. no, you can't use rsync for "2way sychronization" in a trivial sense. it isn't good if you're going to be editing the same file in both locations. but added files / deleted files can be synced both ways trivially
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1141[14:13:02] <uio> Is this becoming an rsync war?
1142[14:13:59] <ayekat> n0a110w: added files yes - deleted files how? e.g. I delete file X on machine A, and delete file Y on machine B (plus a couple of additions on both sides) - how do you sync that with rsync?
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1144[14:14:36] <uio> Is there software (maybe even cli...) that would compare two directories and tell me 1) Which files are not present in both. and 2) Which files differ in size. ?
1145[14:14:53] <n0a110w> Meld can do the comparison for you
1146[14:15:00] <uio> CLI?
1147[14:15:00] <tsglove> uio, a combination of cli commands will do that for sure.
1148[14:15:06] <n0a110w> no, gui
1149[14:15:12] <uio> !!
1150[14:15:13] <dpkg> I'm not your csh prompt!
1151[14:15:19] <uio> ¡¡
1152[14:15:27] <tsglove> lmao you said "maybe even cli"... lol
1153[14:15:39] <ayekat> n0a110w: diff -r
1154[14:15:45] <ayekat> n0a110w: ah, sorry, wrong nick
1155[14:15:50] <ayekat> uio: ^
1156[14:16:10] <uio> ayekat Hmmm okay.
1157[14:16:28] <uio> tsglove I know... I'm not very savvy.
1158[14:16:59] <tsglove> Dude, it's language. You have to use it. If you ask for a vanilla milk shake, and then claim you wanted chocolate... I mean wth.
1159[14:17:30] <tsglove> Look, my opinion as a non-expert: Give the command line a go. Don't get intimidated by it. Is it hard? Yes. At the start. Later, you'll be super happy to be using it.
1160[14:17:43] <tsglove> Really. Give it a go. Start doing more and more of your operations in the command line.
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1163[14:18:23] <uio> tsglove I think you injected different meaning into "CLI?". I didn't say I was refusing to use it. It's just not my ideal.
1164[14:18:26] <ayekat> uio: `diff -rq` might be more practical, to be precise
1165[14:18:43] <tsglove> Good luck dude.
1166[14:18:49] <uio> tsglove If CLI works for you, go wild. I'm not that into it.
1167[14:18:53] <uio> Thanks gal.
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1169[14:19:17] <jelly> there are also file backup/sync solutions based on git.
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1172[14:19:49] <jelly> git helps with merges and file changes esp. if files look like text and not binary
1173[14:20:31] <n0a110w> svn also
1174[14:22:02] <uio> Meld is looking interesting.
1175[14:22:17] <uio> I'll have to check out diff -rq too.
1176[14:22:52] <uio> I am rather disappointed with unison I must admit. Alas.
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1179[14:23:30] <ayekat> unison is pretty archaic, and it requires some fiddling to make it work, but I remember that in the end, I got it working correctly somehow
1180[14:23:34] <jelly> n0a110w, svn is not distributed and it's hard to survive loss of server
1181[14:23:57] <uio> Meld is picking up on the syncing that Unison didn't.
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1183[14:24:07] <n0a110w> i don't like svn but i've had to use it before on projects . it does work
1184[14:24:29] <uio> I'm getting the feeling that unison had issues some files I downloaded onto the usb with Windows.
1185[14:24:48] <ayekat> what filesystem is on the usb?
1186[14:25:00] <uio> FAT I think...
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1189[14:26:13] <uio> I can also 'sync' with Meld, 'cept the sync option is greyed out. Mmm. Needs sudo?
1190[14:26:27] <jelly> uio, FAT has a 2-second timestamp resolution, and has no real permissions, you need additional options for rsync to make things work
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1192[14:26:52] <uio> jelly Unison uses rsync?
1193[14:26:58] <ayekat> uio: have you checked the -fat option for unison?
1194[14:27:08] <uio> ayekat I think so....
1195[14:27:15] <uio> I'll check again.
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1197[14:27:16] <jelly> uio, I have no idea, but it might have issues with crippled filesystem types
1198[14:27:44] <uio> jelly FAT is crippled?
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1200[14:28:05] <ayekat> it's extremely limited, and it's got some weird edge cases in the specification
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1205[14:29:02] <jelly> uio, yes, compared to standard features a unix OS expects from a filesystem
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1207[14:29:13] <n0a110w> uio, Meld can merge/sync directories...but if its a USB drive not mounted with user writeable access, then yes you'll need to run as root
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1209[14:30:38] <uio> jelly Would another file system also work on Windows? I ask because in a work environment not being able to use one's usb is even more crippling!
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1214[14:31:51] <jelly> uio, ntfs
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1216[14:32:19] * n0a110w really enjoys the default debian screensavers
1217[14:32:21] <uio> n0a110w Ran it with sudo, still greyed out sync...
1218[14:32:22] *** Joins: `jig (~jig@replaced-ip)
1219[14:32:40] <uio> n0a110w Are you serious about the screensavers??
1220[14:32:41] <jelly> you have to be careful about umounting it cleanly, but at least it has atime and sub second timestamp resolution
1221[14:32:50] <n0a110w> i'm 1000000000% serious
1222[14:33:04] <uio> in Xscreensaver?
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1224[14:34:09] <n0a110w> normally ii installed the debian-9-i386-mac image on an old mac mini. all of the screensaves are the bomb
1225[14:34:37] <n0a110w> normally I* don't use screensavers, but yeah..
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1227[14:35:56] <uio> Okay, so let's summarise : Unison can't even detect file differences. Meld detects them but can't sync them. What is wrong with this bloody software!!
1228[14:36:45] <n0a110w> could be the usb. try meld on some local folders to see if the option becomes avaialble
1229[14:37:07] <uio> n0a110w But I need syncing for my usb...
1230[14:37:22] <uio> At this point I might just do it manually.
1231[14:37:27] <uio> This is ridiculous.
1232[14:37:57] <gchristensen> hi, is there documentation on the point of using secure_path? I know what it does, I'm looking for information on scenarios where it helps
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1236[14:38:21] <ayekat> gchristensen: what program are you talking about?
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1239[14:38:49] <gchristensen> ah, heh, right. sudo! :)
1240[14:39:58] <babilen> SUDOERS(5) should have all you need
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1244[14:42:49] <gchristensen> I've read sudoers(5), it documents what secure_path does but does not go in to much discussion about the value it provides under certain circumstances. for example, secure_path doesn't prevent `sudo /path/to/my/malicious/program` and if a user doesn't have "a sane PATH" (the man page's words) then it is not hard to imagine a `sudo` shim which first calls (by absolute path) a malicious binary and then `exec
1245[14:42:51] <gchristensen> sudo "$@"`. so, I guess I'm looking for some information about what it is for and what it is not for
1246[14:43:00] <uio> Done.
1247[14:43:19] <uio> I wish people's software would work properly.
1248[14:43:21] <uio> Anyway.
1249[14:43:32] <gchristensen> obviously I'm also not looking for it to be perfect, I just want to understand what its position is
1250[14:43:48] <greycat> Normally you put the actual path to the program in the sudoers file.
1251[14:44:20] <greycat> That way they can only execute /usr/bin/foo and not /home/joe/bin/foo with elevated privs.
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1253[14:44:40] <n0a110w> indeed. what greycat said
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1255[14:45:14] <gchristensen> that is definitely true for sudoers entries which are allowed to call only a specific program, but that still leaves questions for me, like why set it as a Default for all users on Debian?
1256[14:45:43] <jelly> so you don't forget to set it on a per-user basis?
1257[14:45:51] <gchristensen> (this is why I'm looking more for, like, I don't know -- a policy document, or a mailing list thread, or issue or something)
1258[14:46:00] <greycat> Nobody sets full sudo access for all users as a default.
1259[14:46:12] <jelly> in general, safe defaults are better than unsafe defaults
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1261[14:46:25] <gchristensen> I feel you're interpreting my questions as if I'm a novice, but I hoped my questions would come off as more expert.
1262[14:46:42] <greycat> I answer what I see on the screedn.
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1264[14:46:46] <gchristensen> the specific application of these questions is I'm wanting to set policy elsewhere
1265[14:46:52] <gchristensen> ouch
1266[14:47:16] <uio> Confirmed that all is well with -diff.
1267[14:47:52] <greycat> Also I pity anyone who has to try to read the sudoers(5) man page. I swear it was written to destroy lives.
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1269[14:48:02] <gchristensen> indeed
1270[14:48:12] <uio> I'm guessing I'll just have to be carefull when syncing usb-->machine after Windows use.
1271[14:48:21] <uio> Thanks for your help.
1272[14:48:51] <themill> uio: btw did you tell unison it was talking to a FAT filesystem?
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1275[14:49:33] <uio> themill I'm almost positive, but I don't know hat to check that.... that's what someone else asked me as well...
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1277[14:50:19] <uio> Yep.
1278[14:50:21] <uio> fat.
1279[14:50:33] <uio> 'fat boolean true'
1280[14:51:13] <uio> Makes all these promises in the fat setting : "When this is set to true, Unison will use appropriate options to synchronize efficiently and without error a replica located on a FAT filesystem on a non-Windows machine: do not synchronize permissions (perms = 0); never use chmod ({ t dontchmod = true}); treat filenames as case insensitive (ignorecase
1281[14:51:14] <uio> = true); do not attempt to synchronize symbolic links (links = false); ignore inode number changes when detecting updates (ignoreinodenumbers = true). Any of these change can be overridden by explicitly setting the corresponding preference in the profile."
1282[14:51:31] <uio> Sorry, should have #flooded that.
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1285[14:52:48] <uio> Also, apparently diff -q doesn't look in the files?
1286[14:52:51] *** Joins: V7 (~v7@replaced-ip)
1287[14:52:51] <uio> Just did a test.
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1293[14:54:21] <uio> And Meld not syncing with a usb is normal??
1294[14:54:31] <jelly> uio, what are you trying to do with diff -q ?
1295[14:54:34] *** Parts: gchristensen (~grahamc@replaced-ip) ("WeeChat 2.4")
1296[14:55:02] <uio> jelly Trying to see if usb dir=machine dir
1297[14:55:19] <ayekat> you're missing the -r flag there
1298[14:55:27] <jelly> uio, are all your files text files?
1299[14:55:28] <uio> ayekat Ah.
1300[14:55:42] <uio> jelly No.
1301[14:55:53] <jelly> diff is the wrong tool to use then
1302[14:55:59] <ayekat> -q is just "quiet", i.e. it doesn't show the differences; it merely says if two files are the same or not
1303[14:56:26] <ayekat> but yeah, if you want to see the changes of binary files, diff can't do that (I can just tell you whether they are different or not, but that's all)
1304[14:56:35] <jelly> uio, you may use cmp -s to check whether two binary files have the same content or not
1305[14:56:36] <uio> ayekat Thanks for the -r tip. I just did a useless test!
1306[14:56:58] <uio> jelly Would this work for, say pictures?
1307[14:57:07] <jelly> absolutely.
1308[14:57:19] <uio> ayekat I was wondering why it was so damn fast!
1309[14:57:26] <ayekat> jelly: diff can detect differences just as fine, though
1310[14:57:31] <uio> diff is only for text fils?
1311[14:57:36] <ayekat> but I guess meld is a more appropriate tool for these kinds of tasks
1312[14:57:37] <uio> *files.
1313[14:57:42] <jelly> ayekat, in binary files, with nulls and crap?
1314[14:57:45] <jelly> reliably?
1315[14:57:47] <uio> 'cept Meld aint working.
1316[14:58:09] <jelly> maybe it does, but I would not count on it.
1317[14:58:15] <ayekat> jelly: well, I don't know about the 'reliably', but I don't see why it would do hand-wavy guessing on the equality of two files
1318[14:58:30] <jelly> ayekat, because it expects text and deals with text
1319[14:58:39] <uio> Well, diff -r didn't find the text difference.
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1321[14:58:59] <uio> The file was there, but the contents were different.
1322[14:59:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1518
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1324[14:59:36] <uio> Oh, I may have lied.
1325[14:59:39] <jelly> uio, does the "file" tool think both files are, indeed, text?
1326[14:59:40] <uio> Wait.
1327[14:59:48] <jelly> do their md5sum match or not?
1328[15:00:00] <ayekat> jelly: the man page mentions how it deals with binary files - it doesn't mention anywhere that it applies approximations (neither for text nor binary files)
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1333[15:00:34] <uio> Oh, we're good. It found it!
1334[15:00:43] <n0a110w> but wait if you've resorted to using diff on the command line, why not use rsync now LOL
1335[15:00:54] <uio> n0a110w lol
1336[15:01:05] <uio> I was just thinking the same thing.
1337[15:01:10] <n0a110w> ;)
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1339[15:01:22] <ayekat> I guess the two-way merge requirement is no longer a thing? :-)
1340[15:01:23] <uio> n0a110w I'm just afraid I'll f somthing up.
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1344[15:01:31] <ayekat> *two-way sync
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1347[15:01:43] <uio> ayekat Oh, it's still very much need.
1348[15:01:48] <uio> *needed.
1349[15:01:50] <n0a110w> use the `-n` flag or --dry-run before you trust it to run by itself
1350[15:01:56] <ayekat> I just assumed uio just wanted diff/meld just for *detecting* the differences - not syncing them
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1352[15:02:10] * ayekat .oO(wow, that's 3x "just" in one phrase...)
1353[15:02:11] <jelly> ayekat, ah, I always forget the real manual is "info diff" for a GNU tool, not man
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1355[15:02:29] <n0a110w> you wont need two-way sync if you aren't going to be touching files on BOTH ENDS AT THE SAME TIME
1356[15:02:35] <ayekat> ah... I'm just looking at diff(1p) here - no idea what the info page says ^^'
1357[15:02:48] <uio> I was just making sure that I wasn't missing any files to see how to 'fix' unison.
1358[15:03:10] <uio> n0a110w I want something simpler (like how Unison is supposed to work).
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1361[15:03:45] <uio> Where I plug it in, run a sync and have the same files on both devices regardless of what's been saved on either one.
1362[15:04:04] <ayekat> yeah, I guess you can pass options to diff to have it ignore some differences in text mode (blank lines, tab/space differences, ...) - but by default it shouldn't do any of that, and thus not differ from a binary diff
1363[15:04:05] <n0a110w> you could try grsync for a graphical rsync?
1364[15:04:10] <uio> I run it every day and so it has to be super fast and super foolproof.
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1366[15:04:25] <uio> n0a110w Need two-way.
1367[15:04:52] <n0a110w> Maybe i'm not getting the complete picture but i just don't see how you need true 2-way in your current scenario
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1369[15:06:03] <uio> n0a110w Mostly for printing. I make files on my Debian laptop. I save them onto a usb. I print from the printer. Then, I need to scan a document with the scanner so I use my usb. And then save the document onto my computer.
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1374[15:07:04] <uio> Yeah, grsync looks oneway.
1375[15:07:10] <n0a110w> that sounds like one-way to me . nothing needs to happen simultaneously . rsync can go both ways, just not at the same time
1376[15:07:35] <uio> n0a110w But Unison does it so nicely. Plug. Sync. Done.
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1380[15:07:47] <n0a110w> but its broke? LOL..
1381[15:07:54] <uio> Not 'Hmmmm, where did I save files today?....'.
1382[15:08:30] <uio> n0a110w You get the idea though how there should be a simple, twoway solution.
1383[15:08:41] <uio> .... that actually works lol
1384[15:08:56] <sc_> sorry if I missed it, but is there any specific date set for debian 10 release?
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1387[15:09:23] <greycat> !buster release
1388[15:09:23] <dpkg> Buster's release is planned for 2019-07-06 (replaced-url
1389[15:09:51] <sc_> perfect, during vacation, remote upgrades from my phone :-)
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1391[15:10:25] <greycat> Or, when you come back from vacation, the dust has settled a bit and the mirrors are no longer overloaded. ;-)
1392[15:10:41] <uio> Torrent!
1393[15:10:53] <jelly> uio, and you can't or don't want to set up a local network with all the devices?
1394[15:11:06] <sc_> that's not exciting greycat
1395[15:11:17] <greycat> ... "Torrent" assumes you're downloading the installer, right? I think most people here are already running Debian and will be upgrading, not installing. I could be wrong though.
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1397[15:11:49] <uio> I mean, I maybe could. But as you may have guessed I'm not that techy.
1398[15:12:07] <jelly> sc_, exciting is installing today from the third release candidate installer image and missing all fun on weekend
1399[15:12:28] <uio> jelly I don't think the work printer would take that either.
1400[15:12:45] <uio> Those huge Xerox beasts that take user codes to access.
1401[15:13:06] <jelly> those typically have network functionality.
1402[15:13:30] <jelly> and decent PostScript
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1404[15:13:52] <uio> I'll look into it. Unison was doing a good job and seemed like a good solution
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1406[15:14:41] <uio> Are there any programs that do what Unison tries to?
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1410[15:16:35] <sc_> jelly: now we are talkin'
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1412[15:16:46] <uio> Well, I'd best be off for now. Thanks for the help / suggestions.
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1422[15:22:53] <wwilliam> how would be a good way to make sure a file has finished transferring from another server?
1423[15:22:59] <wwilliam> Thank you in advance.
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1425[15:23:37] <blackflow> wwilliam: sounds like a XY problem. what exactly are you trying to achieve? because the simple answer to this is run checksums.
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1430[15:24:50] <wwilliam> Before we act on the file we have to make sure is complete.
1431[15:25:58] <han-solo> if scp <local> <remote> > /dev/null ; then echo "yay"; else echo "ooooh"; fi ?
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1435[15:29:14] <n0a110w> or use && and ||
1436[15:30:31] <ayekat> && and || there might be too ambiguous
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1440[15:31:05] <ayekat> (if the `then` clause errors out, the `else` clause will run as well)
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1442[15:32:01] <n0a110w> good point
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1448[15:35:37] <wrksx> hey there =)
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1450[15:36:39] <wrksx> Is this possible to use linux quotas to restrict space available on a NFS mounted filesystem?
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1452[15:37:27] <wrksx> Server A has the data storage, server B mounts stored data using NFS, and I want to enforce quotas on the server B.
1453[15:37:45] *** Joins: Team (~Z3dC0d3@replaced-ip)
1454[15:37:48] <wrksx> That's not much clearer I guess
1455[15:38:17] <wrksx> Any hint appreciated ;)
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1460[15:40:32] <n0a110w> you can enforce quotas from the server that is serving the share, but i don't think the client can enforce quotas on a mount
1461[15:42:33] <wrksx> n0a110w, too bad, thanks
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1464[15:44:10] <jelly> wwilliam, do you know in advance the size of the new file? Check for size. Check the checksum matches on source and dest. Before doing any expensive checks (like md5sum/sha256sum), check the transfer process is finished.
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1468[15:46:42] <wwilliam> Thank you all.
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1474[15:51:23] <jelly> wwilliam, "thank you" answers none of our additional questions, tho...
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1479[15:52:14] <greycat> Doesn't it, though? It clearly means "I refuse to answer any questions or provide any information." Same as it's been the entire time he's been asking for this, starting late 2018.
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1485[15:58:14] <yorick> did the irc log stop working?
1486[15:58:19] <yorick> (on replaced-url
1487[15:58:39] <yorick> the last entry is 20190630.html.gz, while today is 2019-07-03
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1493[16:03:40] <jelly> yorick, yes
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1496[16:05:36] <jelly> there's a disk full condition somewhere and the owner of the log bot hasn't been on irc for a couple weeks now
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1500[16:07:47] <wwilliam> yes jelly i can have the size of the files
1501[16:08:12] <wwilliam> in advance
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1503[16:08:43] <jelly> wwilliam, then your first step might be to poll for size change until the destination reaches that size
1504[16:09:13] <wwilliam> is a few files not only one...
1505[16:09:14] <jelly> wwilliam, how precisely is the transfer done? There might be better ways
1506[16:09:18] <wwilliam> lftp
1507[16:09:30] <jelly> are you running lftp on source or destination?
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1509[16:09:36] <wwilliam> source
1510[16:09:42] <wwilliam> pulling
1511[16:09:55] <jelly> it can be both "source" and "pulling"
1512[16:10:01] <jelly> it can't* be
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1514[16:10:12] <wwilliam> sorry destination and pulling
1515[16:10:21] <jelly> and which protocol?
1516[16:10:26] <wwilliam> ftp
1517[16:10:30] <jelly> oh dear
1518[16:10:33] <wwilliam> sorry
1519[16:10:47] <wwilliam> that is what they have refuse to change it
1520[16:11:03] <jelly> you could do a batch file for lftp and check exit status
1521[16:11:15] <wwilliam> how
1522[16:11:40] <jelly> the details would imply reading lftp manual :-)
1523[16:11:49] <wwilliam> ok I will
1524[16:11:55] <greycat> or "/msg greybot lftp"
1525[16:11:57] <wwilliam> Thank you for your time and help
1526[16:12:11] <jelly> who is this greybot!
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1528[16:12:33] <greycat> dpkg's lftp factoid is a little less tutorialy
1529[16:12:44] <wwilliam> #bash bot
1530[16:13:33] *** Parts: James1138 (47de852a@replaced-ip) ()
1531[16:13:37] <jelly> oh, it answers questions from people that are not in the same channel
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1533[16:14:24] <wwilliam> greycat: put it on the wrong channel which is this one, I am also on #bash
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1536[16:14:29] <jelly> aaaand you, wwilliam, are apparently in both, and also asking the same thing :-)
1537[16:14:31] <wwilliam> ok go off to read
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1539[16:14:51] <wwilliam> sorry.
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1543[16:15:59] <Muyfret> is debian affected by the SKS key server network issue?
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1545[16:16:24] <irc_chat> hi there
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1548[16:16:52] <Muyfret> replaced-url
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1550[16:17:57] <themill> no
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1570[16:30:42] <Soo_Slow> hello. Is there any gui application to check connected joysticks and disable some of them? (read - 'wine control', but for native software)
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1572[16:31:01] <Soo_Slow> I've heard of jstest, but no idea if it still work and if it has ability to disable certain gamepads
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1656[17:17:51] <MarioLand> hi all
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1699[17:36:47] <karlpinc> Soo_Slow: See the !search factoid. (I like debtags)
1700[17:36:50] <karlpinc> !search
1701[17:36:51] <dpkg> Please search for things rather than just asking, e.g. «apt-cache search regex», or with <aptitude search>. The following ways can locate packages that own a file (installed, or candidate for install): «dpkg -S /bin/foo», <apt-file>, <pdo> (online) and «/msg judd help file» (bot). <search dpkg> for factoids. See replaced-url
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1710[17:39:25] <xiculan> hello, how can I find some help with python pygame script?
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1714[17:40:02] <zenix_2k2> guys i was having a problem, so i ran "sudo apt-get install net-tools" but after that i tried "ifconfig" and it said "command not found"
1715[17:40:22] <zenix_2k2> xiculan: well #python sounds more like a propriate channel
1716[17:40:27] <zenix_2k2> appropriate*
1717[17:40:32] *** Parts: wuseman (~wuseman@replaced-ip##) ("##replaced-url
1718[17:40:41] <karlpinc> !errors
1719[17:40:42] <dpkg> If you don't tell us the exact error messages you get, we can't tell you what's wrong, and it's also useful to know exactly what command you're typing. Please look for the *first* error that occurs, as this is often the cause of later errors -- ask me about <localized errors> too. Please don't paste in the channel, use a pastebin instead; ask me about <pastebin>.
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1723[17:41:12] <karlpinc> xiculan: We might be able to help, if you gave us information.
1724[17:41:32] <zenix_2k2> anyway that is all i had, no error message
1725[17:41:43] <zenix_2k2> "ifconfig : command not found" is pretty much the only one
1726[17:42:01] <karlpinc> zenix_2k2: What version of debian?
1727[17:42:07] <greycat> hmm, dpkg's ifconfig factoid needs to be wholly rewritten, I think
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1729[17:42:18] <zenix_2k2> karlpinc: 9.9
1730[17:42:28] <karlpinc> zenix_2k2: The errors thing was for xiculan
1731[17:42:35] <zenix_2k2> oh ok
1732[17:42:36] <xiculan> well, really the problem is not with python, the scrips works fine, but when i try to convert to a daemon using systemd, the daemon works but the sound dont works
1733[17:42:40] <karlpinc> zenix_2k2: Are you root? If not then /sbin/ is not in your $PATH.
1734[17:42:44] <greycat> zenix_2k2: well, if you installed net-tools, then it's a PATH issue. ifconfig lives in /sbin not in a normal directory.
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1736[17:43:13] <greycat> !ifconfig
1737[17:43:14] <dpkg> ifconfig is used to configure or view your machine's network interfaces. Use the -a option to view all of them, or "man ifconfig" for more. It is /sbin/ifconfig which is not in the default path for normal users. See also <interfaces>, <iproute>, <myip>.
1738[17:43:17] <zenix_2k2> well i can run that as root
1739[17:43:18] <greycat> At least the path part is in there.
1740[17:43:22] <zenix_2k2> but can't as normal users
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1742[17:43:34] <greycat> normal users can run /sbin/ifconfig or edit their PATH variable
1743[17:43:39] <karlpinc> zenix_2k2: type: /sbin/ifconfig
1744[17:43:52] <greycat> or they can learn to use ip addr instead
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1746[17:43:58] <zenix_2k2> HHHnnnm that is a bit annoying... maybe i will try to find a way to add to PATH
1747[17:44:21] <xiculan> #flood
1748[17:44:36] <xiculan> sdfsdf
1749[17:44:45] <karlpinc> Is there a single replacement for netstat, in the way that ip replaces ifconfig? (My brain is leaking....)
1750[17:44:53] <qman__> karlpinc: ss
1751[17:45:07] <zenix_2k2> ok it's working now, i add a line in ~/.bashrc
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1754[17:47:23] <greycat> dpkg, no, ifconfig is <reply>Starting with Debian 9 (stretch), the net-tools package which has the ifconfig, netstat, route commands is not installed by default. You may install net-tools if you wish. Remember: /sbin/ifconfig and /sbin/route are not in a normal user $PATH. net-tools is deprecated; replacement commands include «ip a» and «ss» and «ip r».
1755[17:47:23] <dpkg> greycat: okay
1756[17:47:39] <karlpinc> xiculan: You may need to do something to keep it from running as root and instead run as the user running X. Or that's my uninformed guess.
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1759[17:48:17] <eb0t> hey when debian 10 is released ..to upgrade totally do i need to wipe disk and reinstall ?
1760[17:48:32] <greycat> No. In-place upgrades are always supported.
1761[17:48:36] <mutante> eb0t: no, you can also upgrade all packages
1762[17:49:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1507
1763[17:49:23] <eb0t> ah ok, thanks ill look into that, are you saying after doing a full upgrade , there will be no trace of debian 9, i will be FULLY on debian 10,
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1765[17:49:26] <karlpinc> greycat: The «» are a little twee. Possibly backticks instead? (Or, maybe I'm just griping because I've no idea how to type the brackets.)
1766[17:49:50] <greycat> No. Backticks are LEGAL SHELL COMMAND SYNTAX.
1767[17:49:59] <xiculan> ok thanks karlpinc, i'll try
1768[17:50:02] <greycat> Putting shell commands that may contains backticks inside backticks is HORRIBLE. STOP DOING THAT.
1769[17:50:29] <karlpinc> eb0t: It _really_ helps to read the release notes, which contain instructions on how to upgrade. Otherwise, depending on the upgrade, there can be things that bite.
1770[17:50:42] <eb0t> thanks karlpinc
1771[17:50:44] <mutante> eb0t: yea, being "on 10" basically just means that your APT sources now point to buster and all packages are latest version
1772[17:50:55] <eb0t> cool
1773[17:51:08] <karlpinc> greycat: That's why I suggested backticks, to mark their innards as shell.
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1775[17:51:19] <greycat> *sigh*
1776[17:51:40] <greycat> What in the hell is up with July. Why does July hate me so much.
1777[17:51:44] <eb0t> I avoided using debian for a few years and opted for rolling release distro as i thought i didnt want to reinstall at every upgrade...this is great news
1778[17:51:47] *** Quits: finn0 (~finn0@replaced-ip) (Quit: finn0)
1779[17:52:02] <eb0t> stopped using at debian 6 or 7
1780[17:52:04] *** Quits: javashin (~javashin@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1781[17:52:23] <Soo_Slow> karlpinc, this didnt help a single bit, coz I've already checked list of packages in repo. Question was about existance of tool overall, even if its not in official debian's repos
1782[17:52:29] <greycat> Debian has always supported in-place stable release upgrades. That's one of the main selling points of Debian.
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1784[17:52:53] <karlpinc> greycat: If you're thinking people will cut and paste the backticks into shell, why would then they not also cut and paste the brackets? (It's impossible to make things foolproof because fools are so ingenious.)
1785[17:52:55] <mutante> eb0t: depending what you put in your APT sources you can either use a release name (like stretch, buster) or a keyword (like stable, testing). that changes what happens or doesn't happen on your local machine when the release becomes stable
1786[17:53:33] <qman__> because the brackets will throw an error safely
1787[17:53:42] <eb0t> i think it must have been debian 6 ...i was a nooby, didnt even know until now ..good stuff
1788[17:53:56] <qman__> backticks will attempt to execute arbitrary, probably incorrect commands
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1790[17:54:42] <karlpinc> eb0t: You almost never want to use "testing" or "stable" in sources.list because then your machine will try to upgrade itself when there's a new release, probably with poor result.
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1792[17:55:19] <greycat> "testing" might be OK if you want to be perpetually half-broken. "stable" is the one that's almost always bad.
1793[17:55:43] <karlpinc> Soo_Slow: Sorry. That's all the help I have.
1794[17:55:45] <eb0t> ah ok...i heard someone saying that Buster becomes the stable version some time in july...and i only just installed debian squeeze 2 weeks ago..a
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1796[17:56:02] <greycat> !squeeze
1797[17:56:03] <dpkg> Debian 6.0 "Squeeze" was released on 2011-02-06: replaced-url
1798[17:56:35] <karlpinc> eb0t: Really squeeze and not stretch?
1799[17:56:36] <eb0t> sorry i mean debian stretch
1800[17:57:01] <greycat> Buster vs. Bullseye is going to be even worse, because they're back to back.
1801[17:57:05] <mutante> eb0t: buster is frozen right now, so there will only be minimal changes from now to the actual stable release. i already switched to it just recently
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1805[17:57:51] <greycat> The scheduled release is only 3 days away, so any major changes between now and then would be a massive shock to say the least.
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1807[17:58:06] <karlpinc> eb0t: You have a year after the release of buster to upgrade, more if you want to count on LTS.
1808[17:58:30] <eb0t> ah, i think i'll upgrade this weekend then, good stuff, ill take some time out and read the manuals, also godda learn about adding 3rd party repos, and this looks a bit tricky from what i read, something about pgp keys
1809[17:58:34] <mutante> eb0t: in other words.. you can just use buster today and in a couple days it will just become stable
1810[17:58:46] <eb0t> nice
1811[17:58:58] <karlpinc> eb0t: You need to be very very careful with 3rd-party repos.
1812[17:59:04] <karlpinc> !don't break debian
1813[17:59:04] <dpkg> it has been said that dont break debian is replaced-url
1814[17:59:23] <eb0t> ah yes i was reading that document
1815[17:59:33] <karlpinc> eb0t: If you're new you should probably ask here before resorting to a 3rd pary repo.
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1817[17:59:43] <greycat> even if you're not new...
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1819[17:59:50] <karlpinc> Yeh.
1820[18:00:06] <eb0t> ok
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1823[18:00:32] <eb0t> sounds great...i read a little about snap installs and the like and containers which i may try out if not too complicated
1824[18:00:38] <eb0t> for the third party stuff
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1826[18:01:02] <karlpinc> eb0t: The backports repo and self-backporting are also good.
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1829[18:01:39] <eb0t> bottom line is i need to do this correctly as i may have to support a couple of pcs for people who need them to be reliable, have all the tools they need, and not break
1830[18:01:59] <karlpinc> eb0t: The thing about non-debian software is that it probably needs to be removed before a major release upgrade, and almost certainly needs to all be re-installed after such an upgrade.
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1832[18:02:26] <eb0t> wow thats a great point. Ill make a note of that.
1833[18:02:39] <karlpinc> eb0t: Debian stable is good at not breaking.
1834[18:03:06] <karlpinc> eb0t: It always comes very slightly broken, because nothing is perfect, but you adjust and then the system "just works".
1835[18:03:08] <eb0t> thats exactly what i am looking for...the only downside was that i found a lot of stuff i wanted was not available in the repo
1836[18:03:28] <eb0t> and this kind of turned me away from debain
1837[18:03:39] <eb0t> stuff like pycharm vscode atom
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1839[18:03:52] <karlpinc> eb0t: You can ask here about alternatives, or even better, how to solve the problem you really want to solve.
1840[18:04:02] <eb0t> sounds great
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1842[18:04:12] <karlpinc> eb0t: pycharm is python?
1843[18:04:26] <umbSublime> the .deb. for pycharm you get from the official website, works just fine on debina in my experience
1844[18:04:42] <umbSublime> you can also just "unpack" it and run the binary directly
1845[18:04:55] <eb0t> hmm, ok, i have done a little python developm,ent , but i used vim and nerdtree as my ide,
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1847[18:05:07] <eb0t> i thought pycharm was an ide...that was a bit easier to use.
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1849[18:05:31] <umbSublime> it is an IDE
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1851[18:05:43] <umbSublime> defaults are pretty good OOTB
1852[18:05:46] <eb0t> yes, i keep hearing people saying it is great
1853[18:05:59] <karlpinc> eb0t: If it is python code, you can install it in a virtual environment and get the latest from pypi via pip (or whatever).
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1856[18:06:17] <umbSublime> yah pycharm handles venvs natively which is great
1857[18:06:24] <karlpinc> eb0t: If you're using the commercial version you'd best rely on the company for support.
1858[18:06:35] <eb0t> ah nice
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1860[18:06:49] <eb0t> ill look into all that also...good stuff
1861[18:07:20] <karlpinc> eb0t: I'm an emacs fan myself. Does everything, so I only need one tool. (If you don't learn emacs, learn vi. Knowing how to use a real text editor is,
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1863[18:07:25] <karlpinc> crucial.)
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1866[18:08:07] <greycat> Everyone needs to learn how to get *out* of both vi and emacs, in case you're ever launched into one of them by accident. Pick whichever one you prefer to actually learn.
1867[18:08:12] <mutante> i would recommend to install "vim" though before trying to learn vi
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1870[18:08:40] <eb0t> yes karlpinc, I mentioned to a few guys that i was developing using just vim, and they seemed to think it was a bit crazy..
1871[18:08:42] <karlpinc> greycat: Agreed. Getting out (without destroying whatever file you accidently got into) is key.
1872[18:08:53] <eb0t> but i'm well versed with vim, and it was pretty easy
1873[18:09:03] <greycat> (that's especially true for emacs users being launched into vi by accident -- the other way around is quite rare)
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1877[18:09:33] <somiaj> there is also vimtutor if learning
1878[18:09:33] <mutante> also need to learn how to get out of pico/nano and then set VISUAL
1879[18:09:45] <eb0t> there are a few tools i would have liked, and they are probably available like python code correction and slosing brackets... but i didnt bother with that
1880[18:09:48] <karlpinc> greycat: (I always used to wind up in vim while using less, until I learned to set $EDITOR.)
1881[18:09:58] <greycat> nano at least has instructions visible on the screen by default
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1883[18:10:10] <mutante> true
1884[18:10:46] <eb0t> i havent used emacs, but have used nano a couple of times, but vim is actually really powerful once you get to grips with it.
1885[18:10:49] <karlpinc> eb0t: Dunno about vim. Emacs seems to do everything. (Although I hate colors, and always turn that off.)
1886[18:11:12] <greycat> "xkcd emacs butterfly mode"
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1888[18:11:39] <karlpinc> eb0t: I'd imagine vim can do everything, like emacs. Except that emacs is turing compete, so....)
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1890[18:11:53] <eb0t> ah ok
1891[18:11:54] <karlpinc> eb0t: You might try using tags (or etags with emacs).
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1894[18:12:55] <qman__> vim can also do pretty much anything, there are lots of extensions that do all sorts of things, including an IRC client
1895[18:13:00] <mutante> karlpinc: afaict it's all about the coffee brewing capabilities
1896[18:13:34] <eb0t> yes, i dont think vim is a full on programming language, but you can use sed, and do small macros like in seconds, put marks all over the document and jump around , its truly amazing and the more i use it the more amazing it becomes
1897[18:13:44] <mutante> somebody said it can do everything except brew coffee and then they made the extension for coffee pot control protocol
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1900[18:13:59] <eb0t> adn lots of buffers for cutting stuff,
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1902[18:14:09] <eb0t> ha ha
1903[18:14:33] <karlpinc> greycat: Do you think a "help I'm stuck in an editor" facotid is worth creating? (For one thing, the name is not so good.)
1904[18:15:03] <eb0t> yes i started using vi by accident ..when i first started with linux..thought that was the linux editor, and was really horrfied by that , and got used to it
1905[18:15:19] <eb0t> now im over the moon
1906[18:15:25] <mutante> r/IWantOut
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1908[18:15:39] <karlpinc> mutante: Very good.
1909[18:16:03] <somiaj> !editor war
1910[18:16:03] <dpkg> editor war is probably when people start talking all sorts of emotional bullshit while trying to prove superiority of the editor of their choice
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1912[18:16:07] <noln> "python code correction" -> syntastic, youcompleteme. google has tons of tutorials to turn vim into a python ide.
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1918[18:19:21] <eb0t> yes apparently so..but with nerdtree and vim i was fine.
1919[18:19:53] <eb0t> but i wanted to see what all the rage was with pycharm vscode and atom
1920[18:20:11] <eb0t> ill probably still use vim, but ill most certainly take a look at these other editors
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1925[18:23:40] <karlpinc> !iwantout
1926[18:23:41] <dpkg> vi or vim: Esc key to exit "input mode", ":q!" to exit without saving. Emacs: Hold the Ctl key, press "g" to stop what emacs is doing; hold Ctl key while first pressing "x", then Ctl+"c" to exit -- you may be prompted whether to save changes. Any other editor (nano): Try reading the bottom of the screen to see what to type.
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1930[18:24:50] <karlpinc> eb0t: If trying emacs you should install the emacs25-common-non-dfsg package. It's in the non-free repository and contains the documentation and the tutorial.
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1935[18:28:11] <noln> in the factoid, for vim, :conf qa shows a friendly yes/no/abort confirmation window, and would be friendlier maybe
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1942[18:29:54] <karlpinc> noln: I'm not a vi guy and can't judge. Feel free to edit the factoid. But (IMO) the facotid is not about being able to _do_ anything in an editor, just how to get out without breaking anything.
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1944[18:30:38] <karlpinc> noln: Also, the factoid needs to work without X. (You mentioned "window".)
1945[18:30:43] <greycat> you don't want vim-specific commands either
1946[18:30:57] <greycat> ESC :q! works in vanilla vi on every Unix
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1949[18:31:48] <noln> it also works in terminal for vim (question is at the bottom left), and I just tested it works in vi as well
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1952[18:33:04] * karlpinc thinks that the details are not all that important. If they got into this channel and are asking for help then they can always ask for more help.
1953[18:35:21] <noln> dpkg, iwantout is <reply>vi or vim: press the Esc key to exit "input mode", then type :conf qa<enter>. Alternatively, press Esc, then :wq<enter> to save and exit, :q!<enter> to exit without saving. Emacs: Hold the Ctl key, press "g" to stop what emacs is doing; hold Ctl key while first pressing "x", then Ctl+"c" to exit -- you may be prompted whether to save changes. Any other editor (nano): Try reading the bottom of the screen to see what to type.
1954[18:35:21] <dpkg> ...but iwantout is already something else...
1955[18:35:46] <noln> dpkg, no, iwantout is <reply>vi or vim: press the Esc key to exit "input mode", then type :conf qa<enter>. Alternatively, press Esc, then :wq<enter> to save and exit, :q!<enter> to exit without saving. Emacs: Hold the Ctl key, press "g" to stop what emacs is doing; hold Ctl key while first pressing "x", then Ctl+"c" to exit -- you may be prompted whether to save changes. Any other editor (nano): Try reading the bottom of the screen to see what to type.
1956[18:35:46] <dpkg> okay, noln
1957[18:35:59] <greycat> STOP
1958[18:36:04] <greycat> ..... gah
1959[18:36:16] <jhutchins_wk> I was noticing that the instructions were right on the splash screen when you start vi without a file. Which, of course, no-one does.
1960[18:36:37] <greycat> jhutchins_wk: when you start *vim*.
1961[18:37:07] <greycat> And now someone BROKE a perfectly good vi factoid by making it vim-specific.
1962[18:37:43] <noln> dpkg, no, iwantout is <reply>vi or vim: Esc key to exit "input mode", ":q!" to exit without saving. Emacs: Hold the Ctl key, press "g" to stop what emacs is doing; hold Ctl key while first pressing "x", then Ctl+"c" to exit -- you may be prompted whether to save changes. Any other editor (nano): Try reading the bottom of the screen to see what to type.
1963[18:37:43] <dpkg> noln: okay
1964[18:37:44] <jelly> wtf is :conf qa
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1966[18:37:49] <noln> sorry
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1969[18:38:14] <jelly> and who writes Ctrl as Ctl
1970[18:38:23] <NetTerminalGene> guys, buster support started?
1971[18:38:27] <greycat> 3 days
1972[18:38:42] <NetTerminalGene> start now
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1976[18:39:23] <noln> I've restored it as before. But it also works in debian's vi, I just tested on stretch
1977[18:39:23] * jelly still hopes there will be some catastrophic issue to delay release until August
1978[18:39:27] <greycat> For the record, in real vi, ":conf qa" gives "conf: Not an editor command".
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1980[18:39:47] <jelly> what is real?
1981[18:39:48] <greycat> I just tested on HP-UX 11i.
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1984[18:41:31] <noln> the factoid isn't for teaching vi, it's for exiting when a clueless user is stuck in initramfs/busybox, or follows some online guide that says "launch this vi command"
1985[18:42:10] <GenTooMan> jelly i have only seen ctl as part of program names, it does make it hard to guess what the program is for, ctrl is less ambiguous.
1986[18:42:18] <noln> initramfs only has vi (no friendly nano), so that's the only option if boot is broken
1987[18:42:24] * jelly wonders how to find out how to exit joe
1988[18:42:31] <greycat> or when you run "crontab -e" on a new system and you're launched into vi and you say "Oh CRAP I forgot to export VISUAL". And a hundred other similar scenarios.
1989[18:42:47] <jelly> oh!
1990[18:42:49] <jelly> Joe's Own Editor 4.4 (utf-8) ** Type Ctrl-K Q to exit or Ctrl-K H for help **
1991[18:42:50] <mutante> #wikimedia-serviceops
1992[18:43:03] <mutante> oops, did not mean to
1993[18:43:26] <jelly> do your ops need servicing?
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1996[18:44:40] <noln> Ctrl+Z, pkill vim
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1998[18:45:10] <jelly> if you know about ^Z you're already an expert
1999[18:45:21] <noln> that's my point
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2002[18:46:17] <greycat> (I've actually done that crontab -e thing, except instead of being stuck in vi, I *wanted* to be in vi, but I was stuck in ed.)
2003[18:46:54] <jelly> did ed like it
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2005[18:47:12] <greycat> No. Not as far as I could tell.
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2008[18:49:06] <jhutchins_wk> I'm still learning new things in vim. I installed virtualbox and stretch just so I could use it.
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2010[18:49:43] <eb0t> ive just been out ..but crontab -e just uses your default editor..if you want to use vim then put EDITOR=/usr/bin/vim and exoirt it in your bashrc
2011[18:50:37] <greycat> The point is if you *forgot* to do that, and *RIGHT NOW THIS VERY MOMENT* you are in a foreign and unknown editor.
2012[18:51:02] <jelly> q
2013[18:52:09] <noln> greycat, which debian release are you talking about?
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2044[19:08:38] <karlpinc> jelly: (joe is a emacs clone, iirc)
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2049[19:10:51] <jelly> karlpinc, no, no it's really not
2050[19:11:00] <jelly> you don't want to know.
2051[19:11:02] <NetTerminalGene> will buster use wayland as default?
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2053[19:11:12] <greycat> only in a GNOME session
2054[19:11:21] <NetTerminalGene> great
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2056[19:11:28] <greycat> jelly: it's more like a WordStar clone, isn't it?
2057[19:11:42] <greycat> or was that jed?
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2061[19:12:26] <NetTerminalGene> but i looked in the gdm, it says X11. but i upgraded from stretch. is it possible it uses X11 because i upgraded?
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2063[19:12:38] <jelly> yes, and jed is a joe clone, cousin twice removed
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2065[19:13:04] <greycat> NetTerminalGene: there should be a widget somewhere on the gdm3 screen that lets you select "GNOME on Wayland" or "GNOME on X"
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2067[19:13:18] <jelly> I know for a fact there are people in here who still use joe as their VISUAL
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2069[19:13:44] <NetTerminalGene> greycat, i know. i looked it in there. but my question is a little bit different
2070[19:14:09] <NetTerminalGene> "is it possible it uses X11 because i upgraded?"
2071[19:14:27] <greycat> It uses X11 because you chose the X11 option. Right? I don't understand what you are SAYHING.
2072[19:14:31] <NetTerminalGene> if i install fresh it would use wayliand right?
2073[19:15:01] <NetTerminalGene> greycat, i didn't chose. it was like that by default
2074[19:15:10] <greycat> What was like what?
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2076[19:15:18] <jmcnaught> NetTerminalGene: gdm remembers the last session type you used, so if you were using GNOME on X11 in stretch it would still be that
2077[19:15:44] <karlpinc> GenTooMan: Ctrl it is then.
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2079[19:16:03] <NetTerminalGene> jmcnaught, ah ok. i should ste it then
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2100[19:26:47] <NetTerminalGene> there is an option called "GNOME" in gdm. is it the wayland one?
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2102[19:27:00] <NetTerminalGene> it only writes "GNOME"
2103[19:27:24] <NetTerminalGene> animations is not laggy anymore
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2106[19:28:21] <greycat> 1) are you sure you're on buster, 2) are you sure you're on gdm3
2107[19:28:22] <NetTerminalGene> i see a "Xwayland" process
2108[19:28:39] <jmcnaught> NetTerminalGene: 'loginctl session-status $XDG_SESSION_ID' will tell you if it's a wayland session
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2112[19:29:40] <NetTerminalGene> jmcnaught, it show me some process tree or something
2113[19:29:52] <jmcnaught> NetTerminalGene: look on the Service: line
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2115[19:30:15] <NetTerminalGene> Service: gdm-password; type wayland; class user
2116[19:30:18] <NetTerminalGene> yay
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2122[19:31:35] <NetTerminalGene> so i was using X all the time :/
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2130[19:35:46] <NetTerminalGene> man, that's great. activities animation was lagging, now it is snappy
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2162[19:59:58] <NetTerminalGene> guys, i restarted browser, it choose "X11 default" by default. i had to chose wayland manually
2163[20:00:07] <NetTerminalGene> restarted system*
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2196[20:25:10] <petn-randall> sloshy: Regarding the situation a day ago: There's no need to bait a troll to troll more; this usually just encouraged them to troll more. Best to just alert ops and ignore them.
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2239[20:49:10] <Kali_noob> join #offsec
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2241[20:50:51] * petn-randall passes a leading slash to Kali_noob.
2242[20:51:20] * greycat passes a #kali-linux and a second /join
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2247[20:57:20] <risingtideint> hello
2248[20:57:32] <risingtideint> I try using my mail command
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2250[20:57:46] <risingtideint> and it says it sent but I never receive
2251[20:57:54] <greycat> check your MTA's logs
2252[20:57:59] <risingtideint> I am sending to and outside email
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2254[20:58:17] <risingtideint> where is the MtA logs?
2255[20:58:47] <greycat> Depends on which MTA you're using. If you're using exim4, try /var/log/exim4/ first.
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2344[21:48:10] <velix> What was the bot command for the buster release day?
2345[21:48:45] <EmleyMoor> wwbr
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2347[21:49:06] <greycat> How hard can it be to take the words in your question and combine them into likely candidates and /msg each one to the bot until you find it?
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2350[21:49:58] <velix> :(
2351[21:50:03] <EmleyMoor> At least there's no confusion and it doesn't think you mean "when will bo release"
2352[21:50:04] <velix> Why not put the date into topic? ;)
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2354[21:50:27] <petn-randall> greycat: witrdob = what is the release day of buster?
2355[21:50:28] <azeem> google has it as a direct card
2356[21:50:31] <greycat> because in a few days it would just have to be changed again? because nobody bothered?
2357[21:51:29] <velix> greycat: I have to write a ticket for the IT department and since about all canceld their job, I need to be quick before the last one is gone :D
2358[21:52:08] <azeem> whut?
2359[21:52:27] <velix> So there's an intersection window between "buster release date" and "last IT guys quit their job" ;)
2360[21:52:53] <greycat> If you're especially bad at taking the two key words of your question and sending them to the bot, the announcement of the release date is also linked from the buster page on the wiki.
2361[21:53:14] <velix> greycat: yeah, found it there.
2362[21:53:23] <velix> Thx
2363[21:54:52] <greycat> azeem: I don't know either. I'm not even going to ask.
2364[21:55:30] *** Parts: ridik (~mehte@replaced-ip) ()
2365[21:56:10] <velix> Highschool doesn't pay the IT guys good enough.
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2388[22:13:18] * brew australians == douchebags
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2393[22:15:35] * brew screw you dax
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2395[22:16:40] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o greycat
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2401[22:21:15] <hugo_> Hello all. I am wondering how to disable deleting file but not rename or move ? i have an SSH user that have full access to a folder but i would like to ban "delete" (rm). How could i do that ?
2402[22:21:32] <Habbie> why?
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2404[22:22:32] <zlofgren> hugo_: Do you want them to be able to write to the folder?
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2406[22:23:57] <blackflow> hugo_: ACLs . setfacl(1) and others
2407[22:24:04] <Primer> hugo_: One way is to use ACLs
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2410[22:24:41] <hugo_> zlofgren, yes users have to get full access execpt deleting
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2412[22:25:02] <hugo_> Primer, blackflow could you give me an example please ?
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2415[22:25:20] <Primer> hugo_: blackflow gave you the man page
2416[22:25:38] <Primer> hugo_: I'll warn you now, there's a learning curve (IMO)
2417[22:26:03] * israel twkm is a douchebag too
2418[22:26:05] <Primer> hugo_: first, verify if your fs even supports acls. getfaacl .
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2420[22:26:27] <Habbie> no
2421[22:26:31] <Habbie> first figure out the problem
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2423[22:26:49] <zlofgren> hugo_: Not sure then. In terms of permissions, deleting is just a form of writing.
2424[22:27:08] <zlofgren> hugo_: Why do you trust them to write to the directory and don't trust them to not delete it?
2425[22:27:10] <Primer> Like we said, ACLs solve his problem
2426[22:27:12] <hugo_> i tried chattr -i but cant rename or move the file after operation
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2428[22:27:26] <Primer> And ACLs have been a thing since...decades now?
2429[22:27:44] <Primer> I have done _exactly_ what he wants to do, using ACLs
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2431[22:27:55] <blackflow> hugo_: actually, facls might not work, they just extend the regular DAC, there's no "delete" action, so then you might need a full MAC/RBAC like SELinux
2432[22:28:11] <zlofgren> I'll leave it alone then. Just haven't heard of write but not delete access.
2433[22:28:25] <Primer> zlofgren: man setfacl
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2435[22:28:38] <zlofgren> Primer: I don't really care since I'm not the one asking. :)
2436[22:28:40] *** Joins: alonkli12 (~alonkli@replaced-ip)
2437[22:28:44] <Primer> I know it wasn't you who asked the original question, but that's what would do it
2438[22:28:48] <zlofgren> Also not on Linux, so that probably doesn't exist. haha
2439[22:29:02] <Primer> What are you on then?
2440[22:29:06] <Primer> Because NTFS has it
2441[22:29:11] <zlofgren> OpenBSD
2442[22:29:13] <Primer> Has had it for decades
2443[22:29:23] <zlofgren> I'll check on my Debian box when I get home
2444[22:29:25] <hugo_> zlofgren, i give SSH access with lot of file to a USER. This user shoud create, rename, move a file but not delete. In fact, i would like to transform "rm" --> to move "trashFolder"
2445[22:29:33] <Primer> it's a file system concept. Back in the day you need xfs for it.
2446[22:29:34] <hugo_> how could i do that ?
2447[22:29:52] <zlofgren> NTFS rm is mv to .trash I believe.
2448[22:29:57] <zlofgren> I don't recall
2449[22:30:16] <Primer> setfacl -u user m::x some other crap
2450[22:30:19] <blackflow> hugo_: move but not delete is not possible at all
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2452[22:30:26] <Primer> zlofgren: NTFS is a POSIX compliant file system
2453[22:30:39] <greycat> At the basic unix file system permissions level, there is no distinction between renaming and unlinking. If you can rename a file (meaning you have write permission on the directory it's in), you can also delete the file (meaning you have write permission on the directory it's in). And vice versa.
2454[22:30:47] <blackflow> hugo_: but to avoid XY problem, what _exactly_ are you trying to protect against?
2455[22:30:56] <Primer> It's easy to bash MS, but these are not exotic concepts. They're actually kinda every day concepts in much of the IT world.
2456[22:31:08] <zlofgren> It might've been FAT then. I don't recall. Back in my days as a Windows user, deleting in Linux would just mv it
2457[22:31:13] <zlofgren> I don't remember
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2459[22:31:19] <zlofgren> Hasn't been a thing for me in ages
2460[22:31:39] <blackflow> delete never did mv (mv to where?)
2461[22:31:41] <greycat> zlofgren: sounds like someone set up a shell alias or wrapper script on your system. I hope you didn't learn any bad habits because of it.
2462[22:31:49] <zlofgren> greycat: Well I didn't
2463[22:31:54] <zlofgren> greycat: And it was my system so no
2464[22:31:58] <hugo_> bachler, i want to have a choice (not the ssh USER) to delete or not a file and let him all other rights
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2466[22:32:10] <hugo_> blackflow,
2467[22:32:13] <Primer> It's easy to wave his problem off as unique, but this exact thing he wants to do, I myself have done, with ACLs. blackflow also suggested it. Maybe give it a go?
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2469[22:32:22] <zlofgren> Oh
2470[22:32:27] <jaggz> is there a commandline search for package contents?
2471[22:32:32] <zlofgren> It's GNOME and such that would do that.
2472[22:32:34] <zlofgren> Not a file system
2473[22:32:36] <greycat> I don't immediately see any way to do this with ACLs, Primer. What am I missing in the man pages?
2474[22:32:38] <jaggz> (on NOT installed packages)
2475[22:32:39] <blackflow> Primer: I suggest ACLs yes but come think of it, there's no expression for delete. ACLS only extend DAC which is rwx against an object.
2476[22:32:41] <Primer> jaggz: dpkg -S packagename
2477[22:32:45] <zlofgren> That was nautilus moving them to trash
2478[22:32:48] <Habbie> jaggz, apt-file
2479[22:32:50] <zlofgren> It wasn't rm. It was just a trash command.
2480[22:33:20] <Habbie> hugo_, so they can change the contents of the file, even empty it, but not remove it?
2481[22:33:27] <zlofgren> Nautilus would move stuff to .Trash-$UID on mounted drives.
2482[22:33:29] <blackflow> hugo_: SELinux can block unlink(2) operations.
2483[22:33:32] *** Quits: rivyn (~rivyn@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2484[22:33:34] * Primer man setfacl
2485[22:33:57] <blackflow> Primer: yes and the only occurrence of "delete" there is in relation to deleting rules, not blocking unlink(2)
2486[22:34:17] <Habbie> blackflow, can it also block mv A B where B exists, but not where B does not exist?
2487[22:34:18] <greycat> blackflow: I checked acl(5) also. Same story.
2488[22:34:53] <Primer> replaced-url
2489[22:34:55] <blackflow> Habbie: I don't think so, no.
2490[22:34:56] <Primer> second google hit
2491[22:35:31] <Primer> second result is a setfacl example, which I confess I have not read, but...let's see
2492[22:35:34] <jaggz> Primer, Habbie: Thanks :)
2493[22:36:06] <greycat> because a stackexchange page can't POSSIBLY have wrong answers
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2495[22:36:27] <blackflow> that question also has one very important comment.... even if you block unlink(2) you can't bloc echo "haha" > somefile.
2496[22:36:36] <blackflow> or yes you can but that's just blocking all writes.
2497[22:36:40] <Primer> I've been reading them now, the one with 3 points has some interesting stuff, doesn't it?
2498[22:36:50] <eblip> hey for some reason i have a primary and secondary ip address
2499[22:36:56] <blackflow> this is simply not doable. write but not delete is not feasible.
2500[22:37:10] <eblip> my config in /etc/network/interfaces.d/nameof interface is
2501[22:37:59] <Primer> dunno, this one post at the bottom has examples and everything...
2502[22:38:00] <eblip> replaced-url
2503[22:38:08] <greycat> Primer: the 3-point answer talks about things that do not exist in Linux. It specifically mentions FreeBSD, and NFSv4 ACLs. These are *not* the same as Linux ACLs.
2504[22:38:24] <eblip> to restart the interface i did systemctl restert networkd
2505[22:38:50] <blackflow> eblip: systemd-networkd has nothing to do with /etc/network/interfaces -- thaf file belongs to the ifupdown framework.
2506[22:38:56] <blackflow> *that
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2508[22:39:01] <zlofgren> elibrokeit: What second IP?
2509[22:39:04] <greycat> So if you're asking how to do this *ON FREEBSD*, then sure, "use ACLs" might be a valid answer. But this is #debian.
2510[22:39:07] <Primer> greycat: "similar to"
2511[22:39:16] <eblip> 10.44.55.13 is primary and it got that from dhcp
2512[22:39:20] <Primer> Sounds like we're one step away from figuring this out...
2513[22:39:41] <blackflow> Primer: it's just unfeasible. echo "" > file and you've effectively deleted it.
2514[22:39:42] <greycat> Primer: as blackflow and I have told you, there is NOTHING in the Debian man pages that extends ACLs with a "delete permission" option.
2515[22:39:44] <zlofgren> eblip: Can you paste how you're seeing both?
2516[22:39:51] <eblip> one sec
2517[22:40:09] <Primer> blackflow: haha that's a technicality :)
2518[22:40:10] <blackflow> eblip: did you see my comment above?
2519[22:40:30] <eblip> replaced-url
2520[22:40:34] <blackflow> Primer: no it's not. pretty sure hugo_ is not asking how to block inode entry deletions only :) or that would notmake much sense.
2521[22:40:43] <eblip> yes backflow somethin about ifup and down
2522[22:40:55] <eblip> but does that mean i have to disable something
2523[22:40:57] <blackflow> eblip: correct. you're confusing two different network management frameworks.
2524[22:41:12] <Primer> greycat: so if it's not in the holy man page, it can't be done?
2525[22:41:17] <blackflow> eblip: what exactly do you want to achieve? and how do you want to do that, with networkd or ifupdown?
2526[22:41:35] <Primer> What if one can install debian onto a file system that supports the aforementioned ACLs, but we're just not aware of it?
2527[22:41:46] <eblip> ah backflow i thought ifupdown just brought the network interface card up and then down
2528[22:41:48] * israel douchebags sending me emails claiming they are an iCloud Apple support in regular basis .... grow up ass
2529[22:41:48] <zlofgren> Then that is unsupported
2530[22:41:53] <blackflow> Primer: the setfacl command has no option for "delete", regardless of underlying fs
2531[22:41:55] <eblip> i dont want to use dhcp
2532[22:42:02] <Primer> regardless, I concede tha write without delete can't be thing
2533[22:42:04] <Primer> so there
2534[22:42:14] <eblip> i just want to have a static ip on the interface and then restart the interface without rebooting
2535[22:42:22] <blackflow> eblip: with networkd or ifupdown?
2536[22:42:27] *** Quits: israel (~klaus@replaced-ip) (K-Lined)
2537[22:42:51] <eblip> i would like to use the one that is best operated from command line
2538[22:43:15] <blackflow> eblip: they both are. ifupdown has been standard in Debian for long time, systemd-networkd is recent addition.
2539[22:43:28] *** Quits: grobi (~rtng@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
2540[22:43:35] <eblip> ah ok...i thihk id rather stick with the systemd
2541[22:43:37] <blackflow> so if you want ifupdown, you only set up /etc/network/interfaces* ; and make sure there's no networkd config in /etc/systemd/*.network
2542[22:43:47] <blackflow> ok then the other way around, don't set up e/n/i
2543[22:44:04] <eblip> wow thanks
2544[22:44:05] *** Joins: grobi (~rtng@replaced-ip)
2545[22:44:22] <eblip> and after that to disable ifupdown do i need to do anything
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2548[22:44:51] <eblip> and to restart the interface i expect it is just systemctl restart networkd
2549[22:44:58] *** Joins: thoma (~sully@replaced-ip)
2550[22:44:58] <blackflow> eblip: the "networking.service" is based on ifupdown commands, so you'd have to disable that service, and specifically enable systemd-networkd.service
2551[22:45:20] <eblip> fantastic ill get to that right away
2552[22:45:25] <blackflow> eblip: and btw, I typo'd above, the path is /etc/systemd/network/*.network units
2553[22:45:27] <jmcnaught> you don't need to disable networking.service, it can still bring up lo
2554[22:45:35] *** Joins: v01d4lph4 (~v01d4lph4@replaced-ip)
2555[22:45:47] <eblip> thanks a lot blackflow and jmcnaught
2556[22:45:47] <blackflow> well, true, yes.
2557[22:45:55] *** Joins: volodim (~volodim@replaced-ip)
2558[22:45:56] * thoma fuck you #gentoo
2559[22:46:01] *** Quits: thoma (~sully@replaced-ip) (K-Lined)
2560[22:46:04] *** Joins: `jig (~jig@replaced-ip)
2561[22:46:09] <zlofgren> What's with the random /self commands with ahte?
2562[22:46:17] <zlofgren> s/ahte/hate/
2563[22:46:23] <blackflow> butthurt noobs raging from their basements.
2564[22:46:47] <greycat> zlofgren: please ignore the botnet spammer. Apparently staff are on top of it already. Note the K-Lines.
2565[22:47:01] <zlofgren> Oh ok. I was just wondering because this is the first channel I've seen it in. Thanks.
2566[22:47:17] <blackflow> YouMustBeNewAroundHere(tm) ;)
2567[22:47:38] <zlofgren> I've idled in #debian occasionally, but yes. I'm not a regular
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2570[22:48:01] <blackflow> (meant irc in general, but... offtopic, I'llshutupnow)
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2573[22:48:37] * zlofgren shrugs.
2574[22:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1505
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2579[22:50:45] <greycat> This particular one has been sending the same insults to #bash and #debian. At least.
2580[22:51:52] *** Joins: annadane (~annadane@replaced-ip)
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2584[22:52:51] <ski> (also at least three other channels)
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2587[22:55:15] <roylaprattep> almost finished adjusting my conf file from stretch dist-upgrade, thats great.
2588[22:55:35] <n0a110w> yyy
2589[22:55:42] <roylaprattep> but... Buster is released soon, BLEH!
2590[22:55:48] <n0a110w> Oops ignore
2591[22:56:01] *** Quits: thacher (~terrel@replaced-ip) (K-Lined)
2592[22:56:01] <greycat> roylaprattep: so you get to do it all again?
2593[22:56:09] <roylaprattep> greycat: i hope not
2594[22:56:16] <jhutchins_wk> roylaprattep: Saturday.
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2597[22:56:32] <roylaprattep> greycat: depend on major change between my service and stretch vs buster hehe
2598[22:56:40] <jhutchins_wk> roylaprattep: Then again, figure the servers will be swamped and glitches will be discovered. I'd wait a week or two.
2599[22:56:52] <greycat> Well, you're promised at minimum one full year of service for stretch starting the date of buster's release. Plus however long LTS runs.
2600[22:57:08] <roylaprattep> jessie > stretch has major config differences, in my case.
2601[22:57:33] *** Joins: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip)
2602[22:57:55] <jhutchins_wk> THere is the problem that even when it's LTS, if you wait too long the community knowledge and willingness to help with upgrade problems fades.
2603[22:57:59] <roylaprattep> greycat: yeah, i will wait til EOL of stretch, not doing it all again for now haha
2604[22:58:31] <zlofgren> roylaprattep: What is this for?
2605[22:58:37] *** Quits: yokel (~yokel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2606[22:58:49] <roylaprattep> jhutchins_wk: its my home personal server, with not so many services, im ok
2607[23:00:15] <dvs> roylaprattep, it wasn't that bad. Just some backported packages gave me problems.
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2610[23:01:06] <roylaprattep> dvs: nah not that bad, but with work and all, i dont always have time to take care of the changes
2611[23:01:43] <roylaprattep> it took me a couple days adjusting to stretch, i did little by little when i had time ahead of me
2612[23:02:01] <annadane> yeah waiting a week is maybe something i'll do
2613[23:02:31] *** Quits: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2614[23:02:34] <zlofgren> I'm going Buster right away because I have no control. Also, fresh install though since this is a new server.
2615[23:02:36] <dvs> roylaprattep, oh yeah, one more thing. My laptop's touchpad doesn't seem to be working right. I can not longer press one finger on the pad and use another finger to drag objects.
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2618[23:03:01] <roylaprattep> dvs: weird
2619[23:03:11] <annadane> i do not envy the people having to prepare the servers for all the people upgrading to buster
2620[23:03:11] <greycat> I've been running buster on two desktop machines for a couple months. Servers will wait a bit longer.
2621[23:03:25] *** Quits: CaptainN (zelda@replaced-ip) (Quit: I have to pee!)
2622[23:03:26] <dvs> roylaprattep, yeah it is but it isn't a shot stopper.
2623[23:03:46] <dvs> show stopper
2624[23:04:04] <roylaprattep> have you looked on forums a little?
2625[23:04:10] <karlpinc> I like to wait until the X.1 release. But the problem with that is that by that point you're not likely to see fixes for bugs you find until the next major release.
2626[23:04:19] <dvs> roylaprattep, nope
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2628[23:05:13] <annadane> x.1 certainly gives you a large buffer
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2631[23:05:35] <karlpinc> Yeah. Everthing that's going to get fixed is fixed by then.
2632[23:05:41] <greycat> karlpinc: they won't even fix bugs you find *now*. Let alone after release.
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2634[23:05:59] <greycat> You had to find them a month or two ago for there to be any chance of it being fixed.
2635[23:06:01] <karlpinc> greycat: Every now and then something seriously broken will get fixed.
2636[23:06:34] <karlpinc> greycat: (Someone once said here "it's called 'stable', not 'broken'.)
2637[23:06:41] <roylaprattep> dvs: maybe xserver-xorg-input-synaptics is not installed anymore?
2638[23:06:51] <greycat> #930693
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2640[23:07:04] <greycat> Damn it, I don't know how judd works.
2641[23:07:08] <dvs> roylaprattep, lemme see.
2642[23:07:12] <roylaprattep> or xserver-xorg-input-all
2643[23:07:29] <greycat> replaced-url
2644[23:07:41] <annadane> judd: bug 930693
2645[23:07:42] <judd> Bug replaced-url
2646[23:07:51] <karlpinc> greycat: Tell judd "list", and then "list modulename" and you eventually find the command you want.
2647[23:08:11] <dvs> roylaprattep, xserver-xorg-input-all is installed but I don't see a xserver-xorg-input-synaptics package listed
2648[23:08:33] *** Quits: mitrokov (~mitrokov@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2649[23:08:33] <greycat> It sometimes triggers the bug response automatically when it sees #930693 in a comment. But not always. I don't know what causes the inconsistency.
2650[23:08:35] <zlofgren> dvs: I use libinput instead of synaptics, is that available?
2651[23:09:00] <roylaprattep> dvs: xserver-xorg-input-synaptics - Synaptics TouchPad driver for X.Org server
2652[23:09:03] <roylaprattep> its there
2653[23:09:04] <dvs> zlofgren, oh, libinput is installed
2654[23:09:04] <annadane> point releases are what, you have 24 months between releases, there's roughly let's say 9 point releases... once every month and a half?
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2657[23:09:58] <zlofgren> dvs: No clue then. Sorry. :)
2658[23:10:14] <greycat> Anyway. Apparently adding one line of text to a copyright file to fix a policy violation is too big a change.
2659[23:10:34] <roylaprattep> dvs: apt-get install xserver-xorg-input-synaptics should work
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2661[23:11:43] <dvs> roylaprattep, oh, it did work. I'll restart and see what happens.
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2668[23:16:16] <dvs> roylaprattep, that seems to have worked.
2669[23:16:29] <dvs> thanks
2670[23:16:33] <roylaprattep> np
2671[23:17:16] <roylaprattep> you can now resize?
2672[23:17:28] <roylaprattep> or drag
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2674[23:17:57] <dvs> roylaprattep, yeah, I can drag items around without them snapping back to where they started.
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