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• 8[00:01:49] <anao> /j #ubuntu
• 9[00:02:28] <stryg> Hi! I am looking for a way to make a compilation farm with multiple version of debian. My host is debian 9 testing, and I would like to emulate debian 7, debian 8, and debian 9 in 64 bits (and maybe on 32 bits also)
• 10[00:02:43] <alad> pbuilder/cowbuilder
• 11[00:02:57] <stryg> What is the best emulator / container / solution?
• 12[00:03:00] <alad> also 9 is stable, not testing
• 13[00:03:32] <stryg> yep my host is buster/sid
• 14[00:03:39] <stryg> my mistake
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• 22[00:07:22] <Bushmaster> hi, i am seeking some help with regard to R Commander installation in my debian
• 23[00:07:22] <stryg> alad: thanks for the idea! Do you have some experience in pbuilder/cowbuilder? It is reliable? stable? efficient?
• 24[00:08:34] *** Quits: Night-Shade (~TimF@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 25[00:09:43] <n4dir> as it is the recommended way to build packages, i bet it is stable, reliable, efficient, etc
• 26[00:10:07] <n4dir> a fancy way to do a chroot, if i recall correct (depending on what you want, a simple chroot might suffice)
• 27[00:10:18] <RoyK> Bushmaster: a lot of the R packages are already in the repos
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• 30[00:11:03] <Bushmaster> Hi RoyK the problem i am having is installing R Commander
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• 32[00:11:29] <RoyK> ,v r-commander
• 33[00:11:30] <judd> No package named 'r-commander' was found in amd64.
• 34[00:12:05] <usney> back again
• 35[00:12:07] <RoyK> Bushmaster: doesn't seem like it's in the official repos - better check the website and see how to install it
• 36[00:12:34] <RoyK> Bushmaster: or just use the commandline - R is just a programming language with some gui for graphing after all
• 37[00:13:07] <Bushmaster> do you know how to install R Commander
• 38[00:13:11] *** Quits: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 39[00:13:23] <RoyK> Bushmaster: just google it - or perhaps try #R
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• 41[00:13:30] <phogg> RoyK: r-cran-rcmdr
• 42[00:13:38] <RoyK> phogg: ah
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• 44[00:13:45] <RoyK> Bushmaster: ^^
• 45[00:13:47] <phogg> pretty sure that's it
• 46[00:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1054
• 47[00:14:51] <avernos> how can i reboot into a different installed kernel ?
• 48[00:15:09] <Bushmaster> phogg, do you want me to check synaptic RoyK any suggestion?
• 49[00:15:22] <alad> stryg: been using it for a few years, never had issues, documentation is a bit scattered though
• 50[00:15:30] <phogg> Bushmaster: did you try installing that package? Did you get an error?
• 51[00:15:46] <RoyK> Bushmaster: apt install r-cran-rcmdr
• 52[00:15:48] <n4dir> Bushmaster: first let us know why the very same answer given a few days ago isn't what you are looking for
• 53[00:15:50] <RoyK> try that first
• 54[00:16:04] <stryg> n4dir: ok, thanks but my goal is to compile and make a package for a package which has multiple system dependancies, and these dependancies may have different versions depending on the debian versions
• 55[00:16:15] <Bushmaster> n4dir, i lost the log
• 56[00:16:23] <Bushmaster> RoyK, hold on my friend
• 57[00:16:29] <n4dir> stryg: hence the chroot (or pbuilder, cowbuilder)
• 58[00:16:40] <phogg> Bushmaster: did you type the commands in to your own computer? You should still have your own shell history.
• 59[00:16:40] <n4dir> Bushmaster: ah, ok.
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• 61[00:17:08] <RoyK> Bushmaster: it won't be the latest version - R development is fast and debian tends to stick to what's considered stable
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• 64[00:18:28] <stryg> n4dir: ok but with the chroot should come a complete os system with the different dependencies I can install... Is it the way it works? If so, I should take a better look in the documentation because I didn't see it...
• 65[00:18:30] <n4dir> stryg: the wiki is quite good when it comes to pbuilder, iirc. Might also have been the ubuntu wiki though. Or the debian dev involved in apt-stuff, i forgot the name (rafale herzog or such?)
• 66[00:18:45] <pav5088> I can't seem to change the configuration of a nic from DHCP to static in Stretch using the old "killall dhclient;ifdown eth0;ifup eth0" method. I've tried also doing various combinations of "service stop/start/restart networking" along with if commands to no avail. Is there some special new magic?
• 67[00:19:00] <Bushmaster> RoyK, its fetching which is good sign, I do not need to latest version, I just need R Commander which i am following to do some statistics work by using Bababk Shababa's book from U C Davis
• 68[00:19:02] <n4dir> stryg: if i understand correct (tired as hell and not much in the subject): yes, thats how it works
• 69[00:19:29] <pav5088> A reboot works to change from DHCP to static, but I do this a lot, and don't want to have to do that every time.
• 70[00:19:32] <Bushmaster> phogg, i got rid of debian stretch and now installed debian jessie hence lost log
• 71[00:19:35] <RoyK> Bushmaster: good luck :)
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• 73[00:19:58] <stryg> n4dir: ok, I'll give a chance to pbuilder/cowbuilder then. Thanks again for your help
• 74[00:20:23] <stryg> alad: thanks for your help?
• 75[00:20:35] <n4dir> the original idea came from someone else (honor the ones who have earned it ... ah: alad )
• 76[00:20:36] <pav5088> BTW, I'm using the new correct nic names etc...
• 77[00:20:36] <stryg> alad: *!
• 78[00:21:11] <Bushmaster> RoyK, phogg this is the output replaced-url
• 79[00:21:40] <stryg> bye!
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• 81[00:22:06] <phogg> Bushmaster: so it succeeded
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• 83[00:22:22] <phogg> Bushmaster: there's no step two, go back to your tutorial
• 84[00:23:32] <Bushmaster> phogg, let me try now whether it works or not okay
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• 89[00:25:10] <makrfoockerborg> im looking for a debian based live distro that can be loaded to ram.
• 90[00:25:14] <usney> What else doesn't get installed automatically if you don't install with a network connection in debian?
• 91[00:25:16] <RoyK> Bushmaster: looks good
• 92[00:25:20] <makrfoockerborg> preferably a recent one
• 93[00:25:24] <n4dir> i already asked in #claws. someone can give me a bit of handholding when it comes to incoming mail for claws-mail (or at least confirm that something weird is going on)
• 94[00:25:30] <usney> I noticed I had to install man-db manually after my install
• 95[00:25:31] <makrfoockerborg> puppylinux has no apt :(
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• 97[00:26:05] <usney> makrfoockerborg slax
• 98[00:26:10] <RoyK> makrfoockerborg: puppy linux is something you use with a 486 or similar - not needed on modern machines
• 99[00:26:25] <makrfoockerborg> usney: thankx
• 100[00:26:40] <usney> replaced-url
• 101[00:26:44] <RoyK> makrfoockerborg: what sort of machine is this?
• 102[00:26:44] <n4dir> makrfoockerborg: you sure? replaced-url
• 103[00:27:08] <usney> makrfoockerborg how much ram do you have?
• 104[00:27:19] <makrfoockerborg> usney: 4g
• 105[00:27:28] <usney> slax is very basic because it doesn't use a lot of ram
• 106[00:27:29] <RoyK> just install debian
• 107[00:27:43] <RoyK> 4 gigs is sufficient for most stuff
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• 109[00:27:50] <usney> very true
• 110[00:28:07] <Bushmaster> RoyK, it worked but it says some of the packages cannot be installed but it worked without them
• 111[00:28:47] <RoyK> Bushmaster: well, don't care about what it says - just use it and leave the problems until they arise
• 112[00:29:02] <n4dir> usney: i enjoyed salix for a while (comes with apt-like stuff too,btw), but i am with RoyK (just use debian on low end, so called low end, machines)
• 113[00:29:18] <makrfoockerborg> RoyK: I need to make/get a ramdrive-loading-live
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• 115[00:29:35] <RoyK> makrfoockerborg: why?
• 116[00:29:48] <Bushmaster> RoyK, yes, you are right, in my last debian 8.5, i have same R version and R commander works 100% fine, no packaged missing
• 117[00:29:51] <makrfoockerborg> RoyK: because I need it
• 118[00:29:53] <usney> makrfoockerborg is your machine able to boot from usb?
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• 120[00:30:03] <makrfoockerborg> usney: sure
• 121[00:30:09] <usney> if not you can use plop boot manager
• 122[00:30:26] <RoyK> makrfoockerborg: usually you don't need a ramdrive - linux caches well
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• 124[00:30:28] <usney> I use plop boot manager cd to boot my usb drives on my old laptop
• 125[00:30:34] <Bushmaster> RoyK, I want to thank you for helping me out here, really appreciated and phogg you too, thanks a lot
• 126[00:30:45] <RoyK> Bushmaster: np :)
• 127[00:31:07] <makrfoockerborg> last debian I had you added docache to the kernel config line and thing was done :(
• 128[00:31:15] <phogg> Bushmaster: write down the package name this time
• 129[00:31:31] <RoyK> makrfoockerborg: eh - linux caches without you asking it
• 130[00:31:32] *** Quits: awal1 (~awal1@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 131[00:31:35] <Bushmaster> phogg, which one
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• 134[00:33:08] <makrfoockerborg> RoyK: i tried with the debian-cd and pulled the thumbdrive
• 135[00:33:20] <phogg> Bushmaster: the name of the R commander package that you just installed.
• 136[00:33:52] <n4dir> makrfoockerborg: i never bothered much with to-ram when it comes to live, but the refracta tools (or refracta itself ) seem to offer (or have offered) that option.
• 137[00:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1048
• 138[00:34:43] <n4dir> perhaps antix too
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• 140[00:35:02] <usney> makrfoockerborg replaced-url
• 141[00:35:19] <usney> they even tell you if they are based on based or some other system
• 142[00:35:30] <Bushmaster> phogg, oh yeah, i just wrote down, these are, sem, markdown, leaps, knitr, aplpack, they are installing or at least i am hoping this is what r is doing, i chose USA Indiana mirror
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• 144[00:36:42] <makrfoockerborg> usney: i think slack is nice, unpack squashfs add a few tools and it should do
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• 146[00:37:59] <Bushmaster> phogg, or RoyK what is the command to check the version of debian?
• 147[00:38:28] <n4dir> makrfoockerborg: refracta (tools, duh) i spoke of does the unpacking in an automated way. and comes with apt, duh.
• 148[00:38:52] <makrfoockerborg> n4dir: need to get a platform to play with it first :)
• 149[00:38:59] <RoyK> Bushmaster: lsb_release -a
• 150[00:39:05] <phogg> Bushmaster: cat /etc/debian_version or lsb_release -v
• 151[00:39:13] <makrfoockerborg> thx for help - laters
• 152[00:39:19] <phogg> or I guess -r is more accurate
• 153[00:39:29] <RoyK> -a should do
• 154[00:39:44] <phogg> RoyK: sure, if you want all kinds of *extra* information!
• 155[00:39:49] <n4dir> makrfoockerborg: not trying to sound like a fanboy, but it sure is a very comfortable solution (at least compared to manual unpacking/repacking of squashfs, etc).
• 156[00:40:06] <RoyK> phogg: s(he) didn't say anything about scripting
• 157[00:40:46] <phogg> RoyK: Tue, true. I do so enjoy giving people *exactly* what they asked for, though.
• 158[00:41:13] <RoyK> phogg: not all people in here ask exactly for what they want
• 159[00:41:26] <phogg> RoyK: they never do, that's the joke
• 160[00:41:34] <RoyK> so better give a bit more, so long it doesn't hurt
• 161[00:41:54] <RoyK> three more lines on the terminal won't kill you
• 162[00:42:02] <phogg> think of all that paper and ink
• 163[00:42:09] <RoyK> it isn't
• 164[00:42:29] * RoyK prints out chess pieces
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• 169[00:44:12] <Bushmaster> RoyK, and phogg both commands work and my Debian version is 8.11 which is brilliant
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• 171[00:45:31] <n4dir> Bushmaster: depends when exactly jessie (debian 8) will become older-than-old-stable (and what else you do with it). For now you are safe though (as far i can tell).
• 172[00:46:08] * RoyK leans over to Bushmaster and whispers something about n4dir is being especially pedantic
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• 174[00:47:05] <Bushmaster> well, i been using version 8 for over 5 years in my other machine with no issue
• 175[00:47:06] <n4dir> at least i am not the only one. We sure have been that way a few days ago (and the recommeded way was to not use old-stable for *that* probem). But sure: overly pedantic. Sorry for that.
• 176[00:47:30] <n4dir> have been that far. (not that way)
• 177[00:47:44] <Bushmaster> RoyK, and phogg only one more package to install that is sem, others got installed
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• 179[00:52:47] <Bushmaster> RoyK, and phogg it says dependency lme4 is not available for package arm
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• 188[01:00:36] <usney> how low of specs do you need to require to use dropbear over openssh?
• 189[01:01:23] <usney> is single core 1.4ghz 1gb of ram enough for regular openssh or should I use dropbear?
• 190[01:01:42] <usney> this is on a system that won't use a desktop environment
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• 192[01:04:02] <n4dir> that's what ps_mem.py says bout ssh: 1.2 MiB + 296.0 KiB = 1.5 MiB sshd
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• 194[01:04:49] <n4dir> in other words: i never had problems with specs and openssh, though i sure got low spec machines
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• 196[01:06:15] <usney> what does ps_mem.py do?
• 197[01:06:31] <usney> tells you how much memory a program uses?
• 198[01:06:38] <n4dir> it is a tool which gives you a bit of overview what ... you already said it
• 199[01:06:52] <n4dir> a bit more easy to read compared with (say) htop.
• 200[01:06:55] <usney> what about processor usage?
• 201[01:07:07] <n4dir> let me look, but i think it only does memory
• 202[01:07:07] <usney> I like htop
• 203[01:07:13] <n4dir> yup.
• 204[01:07:38] <n4dir> ps_mem.py is nice for copy/paste, hence i used it.
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• 209[01:09:40] <n4dir> on a really crap machine i tried tiny core linux. If i recall correct bash-coreutils (?) are replaced with busybox (?). That sure makes ram usage very tiny,
• 210[01:09:54] <n4dir> but i don't recall anything bout using dropbear instead of openssh.
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• 212[01:11:32] <usney> slitaz uses dropbear for ssh
• 213[01:11:38] <n4dir> people these days probably call a gig of Ram really crap. I meant something like 128 megabytes of ram, sure way less than 512
• 214[01:11:50] <usney> openwrt uses dropbear aswell
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• 218[01:15:27] <n4dir> usney: no idea if it is of that much use/reliability, but: 308.0 KiB + 65.0 KiB = 373.0 KiB dropbear
• 219[01:16:23] <Bushmaster> RoyK, and phogg good news, all dependency packages are successfully installed, RoyK your command helped installation and R Commander is 100% secured with no issues
• 220[01:16:52] <Bushmaster> now i can go to sleep
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• 222[01:17:02] <Bushmaster> thanks again RoyK
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• 225[01:20:47] <usney> n4dir how do I use ifconfig command in debian?
• 226[01:20:53] <usney> says command not found
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• 228[01:21:32] <n4dir> you need to install a package which contains it, but i don't know the name. per default debian now uses a different tool ("ip", iirc)
• 229[01:22:10] <usney> thanks found it
• 230[01:22:20] <usney> ip address
• 231[01:22:21] <n4dir> apt-file knows which package contains which command. ah , net-tools
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• 244[01:43:48] <usney> n4dir how do I install ps_mem.py?
• 245[01:44:05] <usney> I know through pip but I forgot how you do it
• 246[01:44:36] <n4dir> usney: you have to download it as a file and put it in ~/bin (only root can run it, i either put in in users bin or roots bin and use full path)
• 247[01:45:22] <n4dir> last time i checked (i dont think it is available from debian repos). Like said: i am not experienced enough to know how reliable ps_mem.py is. i mainly use it for the lulz
• 248[01:45:47] <n4dir> the bot has some info about RAM usage which might be interesting (short version: stop worrying about ram)
• 249[01:45:49] <n4dir> !ram
• 250[01:45:49] <dpkg> [ram] (Random Access Memory) The place in your computer that programs reside when running, or usually small but very fast storage device, or unused ram is _wasted_ ram! Ask me about <free ram> or <myram>.
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• 252[01:46:26] <n4dir> i tend to disagree, but that is what is common opinion these days (i think).
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• 258[01:53:20] <phogg> Stop worrying about RAM: Just have so much it doesn't matter how much anything is using.
• 259[01:53:57] <usney> yup
• 260[01:54:49] <n4dir> to each his own. I for one enjoy using the machines i got around.
• 261[01:55:07] <n4dir> and besides web-browsing that works pretty well with all kind of machines
• 262[01:56:23] <usney> n4dir I found out how to install it ps_mem
• 263[01:56:31] <usney> through debian
• 264[01:56:32] <n4dir> enlighten me.
• 265[01:56:39] <RoyK> usney: ip a l
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• 267[01:56:55] <usney> apt-get install python-pip
• 268[01:56:56] <RoyK> usney: or ip address list if you want to spell it out
• 269[01:57:14] <usney> thanks RoyK
• 270[01:57:20] <n4dir> usney: thanks
• 271[01:57:29] <usney> pip install ps_mem
• 272[01:57:44] <n4dir> gotta run. later all.
• 273[01:57:49] <usney> then you don't have to type out the full directory
• 274[01:57:55] * n4dir tries to remember pip voodoo ...
• 275[01:57:56] <usney> just type ps_mem
• 276[01:58:01] <RoyK> usney: ifconfig is going into the history books, like all the good old things that workd so well :D
• 277[01:58:17] <usney> why is ifconfig going away?
• 278[01:58:27] <RoyK> because iproute2 does it better
• 279[01:58:36] <usney> cool
• 280[01:58:47] <RoyK> ip neigh list # instead of arp
• 281[01:58:58] <RoyK> ip route list # instead of the route command
• 282[01:59:07] <RoyK> et cetera et cetera
• 283[02:00:02] <RoyK> ipv4 and ipv6 together in a single command - easier handling - more control
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• 285[02:01:05] <RoyK> and ifconfig is just about the interface, not the routing table - iproute2 handles it all
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• 288[02:01:36] * RoyK needs sleep - night, ladies
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• 296[02:07:23] <ca1ek> i accidentaly tmux into this thing and i don't know how to go back lol replaced-url
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• 306[02:13:42] <usney> question guys
• 307[02:14:02] <Javabean> !ask
• 308[02:14:03] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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• 310[02:14:32] <usney> internet says my max ram for my laptop is 2gigs but dmidecode says max is 4gig
• 311[02:14:35] <usney> who is right?
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• 322[02:27:57] <awal1> internet?
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• 342[02:39:02] <usney> awall replaced-url
• 343[02:39:16] <usney> I have to use those commands to connect to the wifi everytime
• 344[02:39:53] <usney> after doing the wpa conf file and installing the wifi modules I need
• 345[02:40:04] <usney> does that look right?
• 346[02:40:22] <usney> from a text only machine no desktop environment
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• 379[03:17:48] <johnjay> i'm trying to interpret this package update error. it seems to say the versions of libraries have to be < 5.47, but 5.37 is to be installed. i'm confused...
• 380[03:17:51] <johnjay> paste.debian.net/1039217
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• 396[03:42:07] <usney> hi guys
• 397[03:42:23] <usney> I just installed a new system on my old laptop
• 398[03:42:48] <usney> how do I get rid of the ssh eavesdropping error?
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• 401[03:43:32] <usney> nevermind I notice it tells me how to do it
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• 436[04:18:22] <pav5088> I'm trying to change a freshly installed machine to have a static IP without rebooting, and I just can't do it. I tried to brute-force the problem by trying every combination of ifup/ifdown/service network start/stop/restart I can think of and it's just not working... I've reinstalled my test VM many times, and I'm not even getting consistent results, even when taking IDENTICAL steps. It's weirding me out.
• 437[04:19:17] <pav5088> Now I'm getting :
• 438[04:19:21] <pav5088> Job for networking.service failed because the control process exited with error code.
• 439[04:19:21] <pav5088> See "systemctl status networking.service" and "journalctl -xe" for details.
• 440[04:19:34] <pav5088> and that gives me
• 441[04:20:16] <pav5088> Aug 25 12:00:23 stretch systemd[1]: networking.service: Unit entered failed stat
• 442[04:20:16] <pav5088> Aug 25 12:00:23 stretch systemd[1]: networking.service: Failed with result 'exit
• 443[04:20:44] <pav5088> ...and there doesn't seem to be any way to get more output on my 80 column term
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• 454[04:31:22] <random_auroras> How would I go about getting the u-boot tools to generate an image for a particular board?
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• 520[06:10:31] <zeratul976> More and more websites are behaving really poorly in Firefox 52 ESR, while behaving much better in newer Firefox versions (for example, the new Outlook, which is now mandatory). Is there an ETA for releasing Firefox 60 ESR for Debian stable?
• 521[06:11:02] <themill> 'soonish'
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• 606[08:08:29] <Schroeder> so...as a devoted Slackware user for nearly 20 years now (and Indiana University grad!) I feel kind of dirty even coming in here, but I just learned something about the .deb file format and now I'm curious as to why it is so
• 607[08:08:35] <Schroeder> why is it an ar archive of tar archives?
• 608[08:08:41] <Schroeder> and not an ar of ars or tar of tars?
• 609[08:08:46] <Schroeder> and, really, why use ar at all?
• 610[08:09:06] <Schroeder> I mean, it certainly *can* be used as a general archiving tool, but it just seems an odd choice
• 611[08:09:11] <Schroeder> I'm curious as to the rationale
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• 787[11:06:42] <nex`> does anyone have Debian running on a Lenovo X1 Carbon 6th Gen? I'm struggling to get the TrackPoint+TrackPad to work properly and can't find an appropriate solution.
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• 818[11:40:07] <saiyanprince> hi, anyone there?
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• 829[11:50:54] <saiyanprince> when will we get php7.2 in stretch?
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• 833[11:55:27] <bites> it will hopefully be backported soon, but no further information.
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• 917[13:17:28] <jelly> Schroeder: no idea, see also: why is rpm cpio
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• 925[13:24:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1055
• 926[13:25:27] <RoyK> Schroeder: are you guys, as in devoted Slackware users, on the IUCN redlist yet? You should be there
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• 948[14:03:59] <EdePopede> hello all. is there any more documentation on that whole package management stuff? i miss a lot of things in those two small chapters the sysadmin handbook has on them. i don't even get info on how to use what `apt show` gives me for queries, mostly Tags ("show me editors for gtk") and Names ("list me all that deb, apt, dpkg stuff")
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• 955[14:18:22] <RoyK> EdePopede: there's a lot of docs out there on how apt/dpkg works. If you download the source for a package (apt source something) and look into the debian subdir, you'll see the buildfile
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• 959[14:24:05] <jelly> !debtags
• 960[14:24:05] <dpkg> debtags is probably a way of categorising packages with tags (facets) that describe how a package can be used, what data it can read/write, what interfaces it has etc. This adds another dimension to package searching. Install the debtags package, then search either using "debtags" or "aptitude". Search (or add new tags) at replaced-url
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• 975[14:44:54] <EdePopede> jelly: egg and hen. not installed by default, and no idea how to search for ^deb* without aptitude. exactly the two options i declared missing :/
• 976[14:45:39] <jelly> !installit
• 977[14:45:39] <dpkg> Your box does not come with every application, tool and utility known to debiankind installed already. If you find that the program you've been told to use isn't there, install it. Also ask me about <search>. If someone suggests an application to you, it's highly likely that it's available via apt-get or aptitude.
• 978[14:46:12] <jelly> (there's a factoid for almost any question or comment)
• 979[14:46:16] <EdePopede> and i'm not sure if i want to continue using aptitude‌... does it have anything the other tools don't offer? besides the ide, which i didn't use for some years now
• 980[14:46:32] <EdePopede> ah, factoid. another word to remember again
• 981[14:46:38] <jelly> !why aptitude
• 982[14:46:39] <dpkg> aptitude has more advanced conflict/dependency resolution and will often find a solution where apt-get gives up. It can be used from the command line like apt-get plus an interactive resolver makes it much easier to recover from broken dependencies. It has advanced search capabilities (see <aptitude search>). For some upgrades, apt-get is preferred (e.g. <lenny->squeeze>, <squeeze->wheezy>). replaced-url
• 983[14:46:48] <jelly> !why not aptitude
• 984[14:46:49] <dpkg> Aptitude is more memory intensive and slower than <apt-get>, the <ncurses> interface is always loaded regardless of being used or not. Moreover the resolver can sometimes produce unexpected results and most of <aptitude>'s former exclusive features are now available in <apt-get> as well. Ask me about <why aptitude> and see replaced-url
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• 990[14:49:08] <jelly> or just use it for searching. You're allowed to mix and match.
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• 993[14:50:29] <EdePopede> argh. the links on the pages you linked are tricky. just had 3 404's and one requiring login.
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• 996[14:53:10] <EdePopede> i had a problem a long time ago with mixing, i think i used the gui tool first and then aptitude and then something was wrong with the db. so i stayed with aptitude for some time and switched to apt/dpkg later. and as for dependencies, i remember a tool which produces xfig graphs (i'd only have to remember its name... another time)
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• 998[14:53:37] <bites> yeah, alioth.debian.org has been shut down. the wiki still links to it in some places.
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• 1000[14:55:34] <EdePopede> it was on replaced-url
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• 1002[14:56:25] <EdePopede> ah, facet. the other word.
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• 1006[15:05:42] <EdePopede> oh. debtags throws an error when called without parameters. "AttributeError: 'Namespace' object has no attribute 'action'"
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• 1018[15:29:31] <akem> Hello, where can i find CD ISOs of old version 3.X ? There used to be a set of CDs but i can't find them on the official site ( replaced-url
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• 1027[15:36:05] <akem> I guess they are not available cause too old.
• 1028[15:37:00] <RoyK> akem: woody?
• 1029[15:37:23] <RoyK> sarge, perhaps
• 1030[15:37:58] <RoyK> akem: replaced-url
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• 1033[15:38:33] <RoyK> erm - you have the CDs on that link you gave me
• 1034[15:39:55] <RoyK> akem: out of curiosity - why do you need this?
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• 1043[15:51:47] <akem> RoyK, There is only the list files i can't find the ISOs themselves.
• 1044[15:52:44] <akem> RoyK, I want to create a .vdi file to run on limbo emulator on a smartphone, and the last version are too slow.
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• 1046[15:53:55] <akem> The one i have/tried is already setup, i can't add packages, that's why i was looking for 3.X ISOs to do an install myself with package i want.
• 1047[15:56:08] <akem> I think it's because of the kernel version and services, the 3.X is running ok (in console mode ofc) while the 9.5 is unusable. The guys doing the emulator advise old versions.
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• 1050[16:00:38] <akem> Or is it only via jigdo? i don't know what this is.
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• 1053[16:01:23] <akem> Ha ok this is it apparently...Thanks RoyK.
• 1054[16:01:37] <Habbie> i'm confused - i see two ISOs at replaced-url
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• 1059[16:06:25] <akem> Habbie, they are not the full install ISOs, the "network install" and a very small "buisness card" that i don't know but don't want i think.
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• 1061[16:07:07] <akem> I didn't know i had to use a software to download them so i did not look at jigdo...now it should be fine.
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• 1063[16:07:39] <Habbie> akem, ah, ok
• 1064[16:07:54] <Habbie> i almost always grab the small ISOs, you can just apt-get the rest
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• 1066[16:08:58] <akem> I tried the network install i couldn't get the package list, i though the repositories were down since it's very old now.
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• 1068[16:09:09] <Habbie> ah, yes
• 1069[16:09:11] <Habbie> that makes sense of course
• 1070[16:10:04] <akem> I have screen flowing with 404 not found when i'm trying to download the first CD of woody.
• 1071[16:10:11] <peedabee> couldn't you just use archive.debian.org as a repo?
• 1072[16:11:17] <Arrowmaster> thats probably what you should do, use the old netinstaller and change the mirror during setup to archive.debian.org
• 1073[16:11:32] <Habbie> jigdo would need to be pointed at that same archive anywa
• 1074[16:11:33] <Habbie> y
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• 1076[16:12:18] <akem> Ok, i will try that then.
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• 1078[16:13:08] <Arrowmaster> so I've got this r210ii should I use this 1gb sandisk flash drive to put my EFI partition on and raid the ssds in it?
• 1079[16:14:17] <peedabee> So you want to boot from the flashdrive ?
• 1080[16:14:45] <Arrowmaster> yeah was going to use zfs on the ssds and thought it might be better to use another drive for the EFI partition
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• 1083[16:16:46] <peedabee> but if someone removes the flashdrive your server won't boot
• 1084[16:16:57] <Arrowmaster> internal usb headers, its a rack mount server
• 1085[16:17:15] <peedabee> ah ok :)
• 1086[16:17:22] <RoyK> Arrowmaster: dell thing?
• 1087[16:17:27] <Arrowmaster> yes
• 1088[16:17:27] <RoyK> Arrowmaster: mirror those anyway
• 1089[16:17:34] <RoyK> it's got room for two
• 1090[16:17:47] <RoyK> usb pens die too
• 1091[16:17:49] <Arrowmaster> mirror the EFI?
• 1092[16:18:03] <RoyK> just use mdraid
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• 1094[16:18:08] <RoyK> "software raid"
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• 1096[16:18:29] <RoyK> plugin two pendrives and mirror them using the installer
• 1097[16:18:32] <RoyK> not hard
• 1098[16:19:06] <Arrowmaster> and UEFI will be able to see them when created as a mdraid mirror?
• 1099[16:19:28] <RoyK> it will see them as separate and try to boot one of them and then fall back to the other if you configure things correctly
• 1100[16:19:36] <Arrowmaster> ok
• 1101[16:19:42] <RoyK> just boot priority
• 1102[16:19:47] <RoyK> not hard either
• 1103[16:19:55] <Arrowmaster> wonder if i have a 2nd 1gb flash or if i should just go buy two new ones
• 1104[16:20:09] <RoyK> get some at 4-8 gig
• 1105[16:20:11] <RoyK> just in case
• 1106[16:20:31] <peedabee> those things cost peanuts, so I wouldn't risk using used ones
• 1107[16:21:20] <Arrowmaster> was hopping to finally get some progress done on this thing today, its been sitting next to me for two weeks now
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• 1111[16:23:10] <peedabee> couldn't you just "reserve" the same amount at the start of each ssd for the EFI partiton
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• 1114[16:23:26] <peedabee> so the zfs partitions are symmetrical in size ?
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• 1116[16:24:29] <Arrowmaster> I guess I could
• 1117[16:24:45] <peedabee> It would save you the hassle with the flash drive
• 1118[16:24:54] <Arrowmaster> but I thought zfs was happier if you gave it the full disk instead of partitions
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• 1123[16:27:42] <blackflow> Arrowmaster: ZFS would just implicitly partition it with GPT if you gave it raw disk
• 1124[16:28:26] <Arrowmaster> ok
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• 1126[16:30:00] <peedabee> I would give both options a try an compare perfomance, then you would know for sure
• 1127[16:30:37] <peedabee> But I think the difference is negligible
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• 1129[16:31:24] <Arrowmaster> ok, just got nonfree netinstall flashed so I'll try it once this boots up in a few
• 1130[16:31:25] <akem> I tried to add: "deb replaced-url
• 1131[16:31:34] <nvz> anyone know what an NFC transmitter might be used for in a laptop?
• 1132[16:31:50] <akem> replaced-url
• 1133[16:32:03] <nvz> I find it mildly amusing I have nfc what an NFC transmitter could be used for :P
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• 1135[16:32:53] <Arrowmaster> akem: replaced-url
• 1136[16:33:02] <nvz> I'm not even sure where it is, and afaik they have a very limited range so I'd need to figure out where in the machine it is exactly
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• 1139[16:33:29] <peedabee> nvz: You could start a "payment service" on your laptop :)
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• 1142[16:34:00] <akem> Ok, i think it works, thanks Arrowmaster.
• 1143[16:34:21] <nvz> peedabee: hmm..
• 1144[16:34:42] <nvz> I dont guess its the same as or can be used as a passive rfid scanner
• 1145[16:35:41] <Arrowmaster> maybe smartcard stuff?
• 1146[16:35:52] <nvz> just trying to get a feel for the hardware in this system its got some things I never seen before.. like shows up as two batteries even though there only appears to be one.. I'm discharging one and the other says fully charged
• 1147[16:36:30] <Robby> does anyone happen to know for a fact if, for example, booting the system with kernel parameter maxcpus=4 while the system has less physical cores, say 2 physical cores, will still result in a bootable system? or will it panic that it cant find the remaining 2 cores?
• 1148[16:36:40] <nvz> says like 2:15 remaining if I hover, but if I click the icon it says 4:48 remaining, which I guess is both batteries combined
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• 1150[16:37:42] <nvz> idk when I think "smart card" I think the insertable credit card things.. and this doesnt have that option installed
• 1151[16:38:03] <nvz> but the NFC is supposedly standard feature
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• 1155[16:39:14] <nvz> I would guess my cell phone has one too and they could communicate with it for auth.. both both devices also have fingerprint auth which I have working
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• 1157[16:40:20] <peedabee> Robby, it is the max amount of CPU cores that will be used in SMP, so less shouldn't be a problem
• 1158[16:40:42] <peedabee> More would result in a system with unused cores
• 1159[16:41:08] <Robby> peedabee: yeah, that was also what I was thinking, it makes sense, but you never know
• 1160[16:41:14] <nvz> I wonder if that applies to HT
• 1161[16:41:24] <peedabee> That applies to HT too
• 1162[16:41:27] <nvz> I only have 2 cores, but shows up as 4 cpus due to HT
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• 1164[16:41:58] <peedabee> As far as I know the system sees the extra thread just as a core
• 1165[16:42:21] <nvz> yeah seems to
• 1166[16:42:44] <jhutchins> Y'know, there's plenty of documentation on this subject. Idle speculation is pretty silly.
• 1167[16:42:52] <nvz> heh
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• 1169[16:43:12] <nvz> jhutchins: pretty and silly? she sounds like fun.. :P
• 1170[16:43:13] <Robby> yeah, that is what I'm trying to do, disable HT on a dedi server with no access to the BIOS, but, I also run Xen on it and I see that it also has its own maxcpus boot parameter, so I want to make sure that things don't conflict when the system is booted without, and with Xen by tuning boot parameters in the grub config files correctly
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• 1177[16:45:59] <akem> Okay, it works, thanks everyone!
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• 1180[16:47:16] <skalag> hi. need some help with grub
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• 1182[16:47:48] <peedabee> skalag, what kind of help?
• 1183[16:48:02] <skalag> how to change the resolution ? i use mac pro and its masisve so letters are tiny
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• 1186[16:48:42] <peedabee> skalag, is it grub legacy or grub2 ?
• 1187[16:49:04] <skalag> in ubuntu is sth called grub-customiser , but not exist in debian
• 1188[16:49:06] <skalag> grub2
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• 1192[16:50:57] <peedabee> skalag, replaced-url
• 1193[16:51:10] <peedabee> Is that what you are looking for?
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• 1195[16:52:35] <skalag> possibly, but i am begginer and looks like its gonna be complicated
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• 1197[16:52:51] <skalag> which files i should edit ?
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• 1200[16:54:46] <crised> made an ipip tunnel tun0, that works correctly sending information to the other endpoint. (192.168.0.2 (debian endpoint) - 192.168.0.1 (other machine endpoint)). Problem is that when an IPIP packet arrives to the debian endpoint it doesn't get "routed/relayed" to the internal IP 192.168.0.2
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• 1215[17:09:18] <crised> nevermind, I think it's a problem with me handling netcat, network flow is correct
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• 1269[17:56:50] <ca1ek> can someone explain what happened to my tmux? replaced-url
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• 1271[17:58:12] <petn-randall> !context
• 1272[17:58:12] <dpkg> Try to give enough context! For example, let us know which command/program you are running, what you expected, and what you got instead. Try to be as specific as possible. If your command produced output, share the complete command (with all parameters!) and its output on replaced-url
• 1273[17:58:15] <petn-randall> ca1ek: ^^^
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• 1275[17:58:37] <ca1ek> well i have no context, i pressed ctrl-b and some key and my terminal now looks like this
• 1276[17:58:53] <ca1ek> i've spent the past day googling but i cant find what term to use since i don't even know what i am looking at
• 1277[17:59:39] <petn-randall> ca1ek: Are you trying to attach to an existing session?
• 1278[18:00:01] <ca1ek> i attached to an existing session and it looks like this
• 1279[18:00:04] <ca1ek> rather than an terminal
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• 1281[18:00:19] <ca1ek> and i don't want to kill that program in that terminal just to fix this thing
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• 1284[18:01:15] <petn-randall> ca1ek: It looks like the tmux terminal list to me.
• 1285[18:01:29] <ca1ek> well how do i choose the zeroth terminal
• 1286[18:01:34] <ca1ek> oh
• 1287[18:01:35] <ca1ek> okay
• 1288[18:01:37] <ca1ek> well
• 1289[18:01:43] <ca1ek> i tried ctrl-b 0 before
• 1290[18:01:53] <petn-randall> ca1ek: Does ctrl + b c work?
• 1291[18:01:55] <ca1ek> how did i trigger it
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• 1293[18:02:17] <petn-randall> ca1ek: replaced-url
• 1294[18:02:27] <petn-randall> `ctrl + b c` creates a new window.
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• 1297[18:05:22] <petn-randall> ca1ek: Just tested it, it looks like you pressed `ctrl + b s`. Just hit enter to select that window.
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• 1300[18:07:15] <ca1ek> I already fixed it by pressing 0
• 1301[18:07:27] <ca1ek> enter didnt work actually, i remember trying it yesterday
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• 1331[18:35:14] <ralpheeee> am still setting up my fresh install of debian stable ...currently trying to backport replaced-url
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• 1334[18:36:54] <ralpheeee> my source list "deb replaced-url
• 1335[18:37:20] <pfred1> lordy use a mirror
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• 1337[18:38:51] <annadane> ,v exa
• 1338[18:38:52] <judd> No package named 'exa' was found in amd64.
• 1339[18:38:56] <annadane> ,v qutebrowser
• 1340[18:38:57] <judd> Package: qutebrowser on amd64 -- buster: 1.4.1-1; sid: 1.4.1-1
• 1341[18:39:10] <annadane> yeah so they're not in stable or stable backports
• 1342[18:39:34] <annadane> i know qutebrowser requires building it (i've never found a simple binary), exa i don't know about
• 1343[18:39:54] <ralpheeee> judd annadane : ok thxs...
• 1344[18:40:29] <annadane> btw i believe nonfree should be spelled non-free
• 1345[18:40:47] <annadane> not sure if nonfree does actually work or not but i've never seen it used as such
• 1346[18:40:50] <ralpheeee> yeah sorry was a typo on my behalf
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• 1348[18:42:47] <annadane> as a rule of thumb most github pages or open source projects will have instructions on how to build or use them
• 1349[18:42:58] <annadane> involving tools like make and so on
• 1350[18:43:25] <annadane> or some of them have simple tars you can simply extract to something like your home folder
• 1351[18:43:44] <annadane> you also can consider looking into nix packages, if they're there... replaced-url
• 1352[18:45:01] <ralpheeee> awesome....very helpful annadane o/
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• 1357[18:49:28] <pfred1> compiling code is my favorite game to play on Linux
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• 1359[18:50:38] <annadane> (also WTF how is qutebrowser in buster)
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• 1365[19:00:13] <ralpheeee> how can i get backports from sid?
• 1366[19:00:25] <petn-randall> !ssb
• 1367[19:00:25] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
• 1368[19:00:27] <petn-randall> ralpheeee: ^^^
• 1369[19:01:24] <ralpheeee> ok
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• 1374[19:07:14] <annadane> (honestly i'd just use nix packages unless there's a reason not to)
• 1375[19:07:28] <annadane> there's a lot in there and it is AFAICT fairly trustworthy
• 1376[19:09:10] * RoyK has built linux systems from scratch, and it works, but with today's hardware, it really isn't a need for that
• 1377[19:09:48] <annadane> for me there's like nothing i use from there because stable packages have 99% of the functionality i want
• 1378[19:09:57] <annadane> all about use cases
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• 1408[19:44:31] <random_auroras> What key is this? 067E3C456BAE240ACEE88F6FEF0F382A1A7B6500
• 1409[19:45:36] <petn-randall> random_auroras: Is your question somehow related to Debian?
• 1410[19:45:51] <crised> I have a decapsulated ICMP package in ipip interface (192.168.0.1.45965 > 70.239...), how can I forward it to the external interface?
• 1411[19:45:51] <random_auroras> petn-randall: Yes, I'm trying to verify mirrors and the verification is failing because of it.
• 1412[19:46:09] <petn-randall> !bat
• 1413[19:46:09] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
• 1414[19:46:11] <random_auroras> petn-randall: I want to know if the mirror is compromised or if it's actually a key affiliated with debian.
• 1415[19:46:17] <petn-randall> random_auroras: Then show us the information above. ^^^
• 1416[19:46:38] <random_auroras> debmirror --keyring ~/.gnupg/pubring.kbx -e rsync --passive -a amd64 -p /media/user/tbd/debian-mirrors/ -d stretch -s 'main,contrib,main/debian-installer' --nosource --getcontents --checksums --check-gpg -h mirrors.kernel.org
• 1417[19:47:07] <bites> gpg --search-keys 067E3C456BAE240ACEE88F6FEF0F382A1A7B6500
• 1418[19:47:14] <bites> > Debian Stable Release Key (9/stretch) <debian-release@lists.debian.org
• 1419[19:47:23] <petn-randall> random_auroras: According to my stretch release, it's the stretch release key.
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• 1421[19:47:58] <petn-randall> random_auroras: It's not only a key on the keyservers, but THE key that's shipped with Debian stretch installations.
• 1422[19:48:26] <random_auroras> Then why is my gpg install not recognizing it despite my installing debian-keyring?
• 1423[19:48:58] <petn-randall> random_auroras: Read the description of debian-keyring.
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• 1426[19:49:37] <petn-randall> random_auroras: You likely want debian-archive-keyring.
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• 1428[19:52:25] <dansan> *sigh* for crap sake... :)
• 1429[19:53:14] <dansan> So I'm in a debian livedvd and I've added stretch-debug to my sources.list and installed gdb and the mdadm-dbgsym. What do I need to do to tell gdb where the sources are for mdadm now?
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• 1431[19:54:47] <random_auroras> petn-randall: So it turns out I had to manually import those in my user keyring from the /etc apt files.
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• 1434[19:55:22] <random_auroras> petn-randall: At any rate, thanks.
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• 1436[19:55:32] <petn-randall> random_auroras: yw
• 1437[19:55:35] <dansan> ah hah! nevermind, I got it! :)
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• 1440[19:56:51] <AciD`> hmm. no more notification area, not ability to right click on panels in kde, using testing.. :/
• 1441[19:56:55] <AciD`> *nor
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• 1444[19:58:04] <annadane> !debian-next
• 1445[19:58:04] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
• 1446[19:58:05] <annadane> AciD`, ^
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• 1448[19:59:43] <annadane> though as a guess, it may be related to a transition and such functionality is still being migrated from sid
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• 1452[20:01:39] <annadane> replaced-url
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• 1454[20:02:25] <annadane> still, i guess some stuff may have been held back due to release critical bugs... but who knows, ask in the above channel dpkg listed
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• 1466[20:09:47] <ralpheeee> is there a systemd-boot installation guide somewhere...(have not been able to locate one)
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• 1472[20:19:44] <crised> I seem to have a routing problem: Why this packet leaving an interface doesn't actually leave the machine 192.168.0.1.40235 > 35.236.x? The destination address is indeed a valid address
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• 1486[20:31:31] <SopaXorzTaker> replaced-url
• 1487[20:31:40] <SopaXorzTaker> Weird, the login screen showed my password in plaintext
• 1488[20:32:03] <pfred1> that would be great
• 1489[20:32:19] <pfred1> I always wonder if I'm typoing my password
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• 1514[20:53:00] <RoyK> pfred1: :þ
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• 1534[21:10:59] <SopaXorzTaker> Ergh, this: replaced-url
• 1535[21:11:30] <annadane> oh, awesome.
• 1536[21:11:37] <SopaXorzTaker> but I'm on XFCE
• 1537[21:11:46] <SopaXorzTaker> but yeah, probably something related to that
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• 1575[21:49:31] <jhutchins> How do I tell what filesystem is on a device?
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• 1579[21:51:43] <fChanX> Could gparted or parted be used to see? (I would be careful not to change anything whislt checking.)
• 1580[21:51:53] *** Joins: Nefertiti (~Nefertiti@replaced-ip)
• 1581[21:52:11] <bites> lsblk -f for example.
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• 1585[21:53:08] <fChanX> That is better. :|
• 1586[21:53:17] * fChanX grows in knowledge also
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• 1596[22:04:41] <usney> how do I setup my computer for a openvpn server?
• 1597[22:04:53] <usney> I know ubuntu has a guide for it but does debian have one?
• 1598[22:05:39] <zege> usney: replaced-url
• 1599[22:05:50] *** Quits: antoine__ (~airnf@replaced-ip) (Quit: antoine__)
• 1600[22:06:24] <usney> thanks
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• 1603[22:07:28] <photonsphere> Under KDE the connection manager supports it.
• 1604[22:07:40] <zege> usney: you can also use the ubuntu one if something in the debian wiki is unclear to you. It most likley also work on debian.
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• 1610[22:13:53] <Gerowen> useney: As zege said, since Ubuntu is largely based on Debian (I believe they even pull their packages straight out of the Debian unstable/testing repos), most guides for things like that should work on Debian as well.
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• 1613[22:16:12] <Gerowen> Opinion, since my home server has a 6 core CPU and 16GB of RAM, would it be better to host some of my services using virtual machines?
• 1614[22:16:40] <Gerowen> Just a random thought.
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• 1616[22:17:13] <nkuttler> Gerowen: what kind of services, could you use containers that are more light-weight?
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• 1619[22:19:40] <Gerowen> Right now it's just Rust (game), Minecraft, Samba, Apache and Plex. I'm not hosting anything terribly demanding, barely a quarter of my RAM is used at any given moment, but I got to thinking, wouldn't it be nice to sandbox say "Rust" so if somebody was hacking the game, they wouldn't have access to the host system that also holds several terabytes of personal backups.
• 1620[22:20:20] <Gerowen> nkuttler: What other types of containers would you recommend? Other than your regular old VMs like VMWare and VirtualBox, I'm kind of a noob to containerizing things.
• 1621[22:20:36] <Gerowen> Just a thought experiment, I'm not committing to anything yet, just trying to educate myself.
• 1622[22:20:37] <blackflow> VMs and containers add huge maintenance overhead. if you want isolation, perhaps you can do it with systemd's namespacing features? it's a line or few in the service unit files.
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• 1624[22:22:01] <watchd0g> ls -al
• 1625[22:22:24] <blackflow> Gerowen: btw VMs are not very strong security boundaries. plenty of host-affecting vulns are found yearly.
• 1626[22:22:47] <zege> Gerowen: as blackflow said vms add a lot of maintenance oevrhead. But if your hardware fails its quite easy to move the vm to a new hardware. This is the main reason for me to use vms
• 1627[22:24:33] <blackflow> as easy as moving the whole hdd over to a new chassis? :) personally I found no such advntage with VMs. you still need additional hardware, working disks, cpus, memory...
• 1628[22:25:07] <blackflow> now, _live_ migration is a completely different story...
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• 1630[22:26:55] <zege> blackflow: first yes easier then moveing a hdd because you have all the standard hardware. And yes in my company I do use live migration.
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• 1632[22:27:31] <zege> blackflow: standard hardware is more important for windows vms than for linux ones...
• 1633[22:28:57] <blackflow> zege: well that's what I mean. migrate hdd, and it just works (plus dealing with gpu driver changes if any). migrating a VM assumes the old machine is a sufficiently working state that you can pull of the migration, over network.
• 1634[22:29:14] <blackflow> in both cases you need new hardware.
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• 1636[22:29:27] <bites> or from backup...
• 1637[22:31:05] <bites> or in an enterprise setting the hosts wouldn't have any storage at all other than a boot drive.
• 1638[22:32:41] <zege> blackflow: the vm advantge i see ist that you just take the vm backup and start the vm on any vm-host with the same architecture. So ist very easy. When no other hardware is availabe you can use your pc to do so. The next advantage is that windows machines need to reactive if a major hardware change is detected so a vm image is also a plus here.
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• 1645[22:36:55] <peedabee> Why does debian stable include python 3.5.3 in stead of 3.6+ ? It took me a while before I figured out why my f-strings were not parsing and resulting in a syntax error :-)
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• 1647[22:37:57] <petn-randall> peedabee: Because that was the most current version when stretch went into the freezing process.
• 1648[22:39:09] <peedabee> petn-randall, that explains a lot. I came from ubuntu... was tired from the bloatware. So I think i will go to testing then in stead of stable
• 1649[22:39:12] <peedabee> Thnx!
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• 1652[22:40:53] <Nokaji> peedabee: maybe you could dual boot the two - just a thought
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• 1656[22:41:49] <zege> peedabee: you can try this inoffical backport: replaced-url
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• 1658[22:42:01] <peedabee> Nokaji, as I'm working on a netbook LXC could also be an option ?
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• 1660[22:43:18] <n4dir> no experience with it at all, but there is that program called virtualenv (or such), which makes you install different versions of python.
• 1661[22:43:18] <Nokaji> peedabee: I'm a newb, someone else would need to fill in the gaps on that one
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• 1663[22:43:18] <n4dir> point is that using debian testing shouldn't been done lighthearted.
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• 1665[22:43:46] <peedabee> n4dir, point taken
• 1666[22:44:08] <peedabee> zege, will look into that thanks!
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• 1669[22:44:20] <n4dir> :-) i am not of the ones who say: oh my god, no, not ever. I consider testing and unstable to be ok for my needs. But one should know what one (might ) run into
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• 1672[22:45:01] <annadane> it's a consideration of what a computer is used for. do you need it to work consistently? use stable. you don't need new applications for most things. if you do, there's usually ways to get them
• 1673[22:45:18] <annadane> also it nicely allows you to be lazy with updates
• 1674[22:45:34] <n4dir> yup, annadane, thats what i meant. thanks for making it more clear
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• 1676[22:46:01] <peedabee> n4dir, I have administrated systems with Arch in production, I think testing is more stable lol
• 1677[22:46:10] <n4dir> lol. probably.
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• 1679[22:47:05] <n4dir> the good news is that you can run a mixed testing/unstable system. In case a program is broken in testing, a "repaired" version might already be in unstable.
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• 1681[22:47:10] <peedabee> annadane, in this case it's not a production server, but you're absolutely right
• 1682[22:47:32] <n4dir> the debian wiki knows more about the advantages and disadvantages of each version
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• 1685[22:48:00] <peedabee> n4ir, that's why I think I will stick to containers. The packages are up-to-date, the kernel is just shared
• 1686[22:48:20] <peedabee> It's a shame lxd hasn't been ported to debian though
• 1687[22:48:36] <annadane> virtualenv is fine for python. for other things there's nix packages and compilg your own
• 1688[22:48:40] <annadane> compiling
• 1689[22:48:42] <petn-randall> !sid chroot
• 1690[22:48:50] *** Quits: fstd (~fstd@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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• 1692[22:48:53] <annadane> dselect, sid chroot
• 1693[22:48:54] <dselect> annadane: i haven't a clue
• 1694[22:48:55] <n4dir> annadane: and debian-backports :-)
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• 1697[22:49:48] <annadane> nix is basically the only thing i'll tolerate, one thing i don't like about slackware is the amount of external repositories
• 1698[22:49:58] <n4dir> what is nix?
• 1699[22:49:59] <annadane> which may or may not be trustworthy
• 1700[22:49:59] <petn-randall> peedabee: A much safer way would be to just have a testing or sid chroot, then you get the benefit of a stable system and a newer python.
• 1701[22:50:12] <annadane> n4dir, replaced-url
• 1702[22:50:18] <n4dir> thanks. let me look
• 1703[22:50:58] <annadane> or run testing/sid inside a virtual machine like virt-manager or virtualbox
• 1704[22:51:15] <annadane> just never pip install anything as root
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• 1706[22:51:45] <peedabee> annadane, virtualenv++
• 1707[22:52:13] <annadane> but yeah
• 1708[22:52:26] <annadane> it turns out debian stable actually has a lot of solutions, it's not just "old packages"
• 1709[22:52:40] <n4dir> annadane: when it comes to slackware, lack of dependency handling is quite a bummer too. Also to install everything and the kitchen sink per default.
• 1710[22:52:52] <annadane> it is in the main repositories but there's ways to get stuff safely
• 1711[22:53:27] * annadane currently has only stable packages and one from backports and that's fine for my case
• 1712[22:54:20] <peedabee> n4dir, hasn't slackware been having maintenance and up-keep issues since the death of its creator, or am I really lagging in knowledge?
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• 1714[22:54:44] <annadane> its creator didn't die?
• 1715[22:54:56] <annadane> replaced-url
• 1716[22:55:30] <n4dir> last time i checked everything was fine with Slackware (but then the PC decided to end it's life ... )
• 1717[22:55:50] <annadane> the only thing negative i've heard is that the store was taking a massive cut of the money and screwing him
• 1718[22:55:56] <peedabee> annadane, Sry must mixed it up with another distro... must be the bottle of wine talking I just finished
• 1719[22:56:05] <n4dir> :-)
• 1720[22:56:11] <annadane> *debian*'s founder actually did die a little bit ago
• 1721[22:56:18] <annadane> but the project lives on in his memory
• 1722[22:56:36] <blackflow> or.... maybe the other way around...
• 1723[22:56:50] <petn-randall> Though he wasn't active in Debian for a decade or so before his death.
• 1724[22:57:03] <n4dir> still being a community and not a one-man-show is a good thing about debian. imho.
• 1725[22:57:09] <peedabee> blackflow, Deep -)
• 1726[22:57:12] <peedabee> :-
• 1727[22:57:21] <annadane> yeah. no corporations, no BDFL
• 1728[22:57:43] <n4dir> "who the bloody hell cares about debian?" is still a good read, imho.
• 1729[22:57:45] <annadane> ensures the long term health of the thing
• 1730[22:57:56] *** Quits: iiaann (~iiaann@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 1731[22:58:28] <peedabee> That's what really p*sses me off about ubuntu. The commercial interests seem to be growing ever stronger
• 1732[22:58:40] <fChanX> What is that book generally about, n4dir? :o
• 1733[22:59:18] <n4dir> fChanX: it ain't a book. It was a short essay of one of ... mhhh ... the project leaders. I forgot his name. Quickly gives an overview of what makes Debian Debian.
• 1734[22:59:27] <annadane> (well, ok, there are *some* corporations but it's not run in the traditional corporate sense)
• 1735[22:59:35] <n4dir> on youtube it is to be found as a speech, i think
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• 1737[22:59:50] <peedabee> Let's have a looksie
• 1738[23:00:08] <fChanX> Nice. :)
• 1739[23:00:10] <fChanX> Thanks.
• 1740[23:01:40] *** Quits: Vizva (~Vizva@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1741[23:01:46] <n4dir> also nice: what rickh quoted (he himself was a bit grim): replaced-url
• 1742[23:02:17] <annadane> anyway, i absolutely love debian. one of man's best inventions
• 1743[23:03:10] <n4dir> looked around for 2 or 3 years now. I for one sure haven't find anything better (for my needs).
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• 1749[23:07:49] <peedabee> annadane, with my experience up to now, I second your opinion!
• 1750[23:09:18] <peedabee> Solved the problem : root@testing:/etc# python3
• 1751[23:09:18] <peedabee> Python 3.6.6 (default, Jun 27 2018, 14:44:17)
• 1752[23:09:53] <annadane> we've lost them. =(
• 1753[23:10:36] <zege> peedabee: what did you do? install testing?
• 1754[23:10:55] *** Quits: sdoubleyou (~sdoubleyo@replaced-ip) (Quit: sdoubleyou)
• 1755[23:10:58] <peedabee> zege, installed a linux container with testing
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• 1758[23:11:26] <annadane> oh. =)
• 1759[23:11:41] * annadane puts down pitchfork
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• 1761[23:12:13] <peedabee> testing RUNNING 0 - 192.168.111.5 -
• 1762[23:12:17] <peedabee> :)
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• 1769[23:14:18] <annadane> "container"... from where?
• 1770[23:15:07] <peedabee> annadane, lxc has container templates you can download
• 1771[23:15:16] <peedabee> they are pretty up-to-date
• 1772[23:15:22] <annadane> oh? TIL
• 1773[23:15:31] *** Quits: malmalmal (~malmalmal@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 1774[23:16:27] <annadane> i know it's on the DontBreakDebian wiki page but i never really fully read it
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• 1776[23:17:26] <peedabee> annadane, if you have a low-end laptop (like me) and you want to "virtualize" you can run linux containers which use namespacing and cgroups to create a "enhanced chroot" that acts like a virtual machine
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• 1778[23:17:36] <peedabee> With it's own network stack and all
• 1779[23:18:03] <peedabee> Because you share the kernel, you don't have the overhead of a hypervisor
• 1780[23:18:26] <peedabee> and you can share resources like disk and memory without making hard reservations
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• 1804[23:41:24] <tha_14> I am trying to setup a RAID 1 with an Silicon Image, Inc. SiI 3114 PCI card. I have setup the RAID and it is shown as a Logical disk on the raid card but on debian both of the drives show up as /dev/sda and /dev/sdb. If anyone can give some generic help with this I'd be grateful.
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• 1811[23:46:59] <peedabee> tha_14, is it some kind of software raid?
• 1812[23:48:03] <tha_14> @peedabee: It is a hardware raid but I found the asme mention just now while googling around replaced-url
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• 1814[23:48:53] <tha_14> @peedabee: I think it is using ome sort of fakeRAID
• 1815[23:49:18] <peedabee> replaced-url
• 1816[23:49:36] <peedabee> Software RAID 0 (striping), RAID 1 (mirroring), and RAID 1+0 (mirrored stripe) functions are supported through Silicon Image’s SATARaid™ RAID management software utility.
• 1817[23:50:12] <tha_14> I see, thank you for your help, will go with mdadm :)
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• 1819[23:50:40] <peedabee> tha_14, would be my choice too! good luck :)
• 1820[23:50:43] <petn-randall> !fakeraid
• 1821[23:50:44] <dpkg> Fakeraid is a term used for controller cards that advertise RAID functionality that is NOT supported by a hardware chip for parity. Most of these have only a BIOS. For use with Debian systems, it is suggested that you do not set a RAID in the BIOS and don't use dmraid, just use regular software RAID instead; ask me about <md>. replaced-url
• 1822[23:50:47] <petn-randall> tha_14: ^^^
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• 1825[23:51:26] <tha_14> thanks guys
• 1826[23:51:30] <petn-randall> tha_14: If you have a fakeraid, it's better to use mdraid from the kernel, as this is battle-tested and far more mature than some fakeraid.
• 1827[23:51:32] <tha_14> finishing this and going to sleep
• 1828[23:51:46] <tha_14> @petn-randall will look into it
• 1829[23:52:28] <peedabee> tha_14, sleep tight :-), if you are looking into raid 1+0 this works great in dmraid too nowadays!
• 1830[23:52:56] *** Parts: tha_14 (~Tha_14@replaced-ip) ()
• 1831[23:55:40] <peedabee> Well, I bid everyone a good night/day. Till next time
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• 1839[23:59:09] <dreamer> hi all. been having some networking issues on stretch today. I was on wired and later wifi. but at some point couldn't connect on either any more. usb-modem still works with pppd, but all wired and wireless doesn't seem to be able to connect any more
• 1840[23:59:27] <dreamer> I'm using wicd for connecting to these. but straight dhclient couldn't get a lease either
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