98[01:52:10] <HelloShitty> I mean, I have a program running in
a terminal and I can't stop it and I need to see how that
program was called... With which parameters
99[01:52:31] <HelloShitty> So I need to see the history of that
terminal session but in another terminal
101[01:52:52] <somiaj> ctrl-z will pause it, you can then run it
in the background with 'bg', or pause it, check the
history, type 'fg' to bring it back to the foreground
102[01:53:05] <somiaj> though I'll see if you can ccess the
buffer from another shell
106[01:53:24] <somiaj> also sometimes you can check the pid.
107[01:53:40] <HelloShitty> ok, let me try the crtl-z
108[01:54:24] *** Quits: dacod (~dacod@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
109[01:54:35] <HelloShitty> well, I hit ctrl-z and it stopped, I
checked the command and then typed bg
110[01:54:41] <HelloShitty> but it's not in the background
111[01:54:52] <HelloShitty> it's still running in the
'front'ground
112[01:54:54] <HelloShitty> :p
113[01:54:55] <somiaj> in /proc/pid/cmdline it has the command
line typed
114[01:55:08] <somiaj> HelloShitty: it is output to the same std
out, but it is running in the background
115[01:55:18] <somiaj> that doesn't suppress output, but
only allows you to do otherthings while it runs
116[01:55:19] <HelloShitty> ah ok
117[01:55:54] <HelloShitty> thank you somiaj
118[01:56:38] <somiaj> hmm, not finding a way to access the bash
history buffer from another shell, but there maybe a way for that
too
119[01:56:59] <woenx> Hi. tonight I noticed that my NAS is
running very very slow. I usually access its folders through sshfs,
and it's quite responsive, but now it's taking several
minutes to do a simple copy and paste of a small file.
120[01:57:25] <woenx> I noticed that the CPU I/O Wait value is
very high, approaching 80 or 90% in iotop
121[01:57:26] <sney> woenx: what filesystem and how full is it?
122[01:57:46] <woenx> I suspect a hard drive might be causing
this, but I don't know how to be sure and isolate the problem
123[01:57:47] <woenx> any tips?
124[01:58:37] <sney> smartctl is pretty good at detecting hard
drive problems
125[01:58:42] <woenx> (I'm using Debian 10.4)
126[01:59:06] <sney> also if the nas uses a mirror, you can pull
one of the drives and see if speed improves on the degraded array
128[01:59:10] <somiaj> hmm, only found 'history -a'
which appends .bash_history after each command so you don't
have the history in the memeory, but don't see a way to read
another shells history buffer/memeory, which might not be possible
unless you have some socket open
129[01:59:54] *** Quits: woenx (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
130[02:00:16] <somiaj> so for future times, you could just run
all your shells with history -a (from .bashrc/profile) to append
commands as they are typed
132[02:00:49] <g0zzy> Any good wheezes for running badblocks
over ssh and being able to disconnect and still get a good progress
report later? I'm nohup sudo badblocks -sv -n -o /tmp/bb.log
/dev/sdb2 and that really doesn't play nicely with nohup.out
133[02:01:08] *** Quits: de-facto (~de-facto@replaced-ip) (Quit: See you around.)
195[02:56:11] <Gigglebyte> I am trying to burn Debian to a USB,
but xfburn isn't recognizing a USB as a valid media? Any
thoughts on what I can use? Or what I can do?
198[02:57:36] <sney> Gigglebyte: the relevant manual page is
here
replaced-url
199[02:58:00] <sney> you just need that cp command and the
following sync. the image is already prepared for usb so there is no
need for a complicated utility
201[03:02:13] <Gigglebyte> sney> Well I followed instructions
and ran dmesg, but not sure I accomplished anything. dmesg sees the
Patriot Memory stick, and towards the end of the report it suggest
the drive is sdb. However, the drive isn't detected by xfburn.
Am I correct that Xfburn doesn't recognize USBs?
202[03:02:48] <dvs> Gigglebyte, you're not supposed to use
xfburn
212[03:08:26] <bigfluff> Hello friends! Quick feel-out of the
room, how well-regarded (and perhaps well-supported) is the MATE
desktop environment under Debian?
216[03:09:51] <annadane> desktops aren't inherently more or
less supported than any other
217[03:10:02] <sney> bigfluff: it's been in debian for the
last few releases and I haven't personally seen any major
complaints. you can check popcon.debian.org for statistics and
bugs.debian.org to see what problems have been reported
218[03:10:06] <Gigglebyte> trying to find the path to the file
to cp
219[03:10:18] *** Quits: electro33 (uid613@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
220[03:10:31] <annadane> debian isn't like the ubuntu
system where you have kubuntu lubuntu and so on
221[03:10:55] <sney> Gigglebyte: if you downloaded the iso with
your browser it's probably
~/Downloads/debian-someversion-amd64-netinst.iso
222[03:11:07] <Gigglebyte> yes
223[03:11:20] <annadane> MATE's also the only desktop
i've personally seen that's gotten backports
224[03:11:42] <annadane> (though really how much do you really
need in a desktop...)
243[03:23:13] <incal> hello, how do you install another
Unix' man pages? I got the man pages from SunOS 5.10 and put
them in /usr/share/man and the dir sunos, and now it works with e.g.
'man -m sunos calendar'. but then I did the same with the
man pages from OpenBSD, i.e. /usr/share/man/openbsd but 'man -m
openbsd calendar' still shows the system default and not the
OpenBSD page despite a /usr/share/man/openbsd/man1/calendar.1 file -
ideas? TIA
244[03:23:14] <shreerama> tmate is displaying ssh key not
generated ? how to generate ssh key for tmate & run it
successfully
245[03:23:16] <dvs> even better!
246[03:24:23] <Gigglebyte> the correct path is
Downloads/debian-10.4.0-amd64-netinst.iso
247[03:25:01] <dvs> Gigglebyte, what is your current directory?
248[03:25:11] <nvz> incal: did you update the database?
249[03:25:29] <nvz> if you notice when installing packages, they
always update the mandb after installing
250[03:25:32] <Gigglebyte> I am in the home directory. I am at
the next step, and trying t copy the firmware to a separate
partition.
251[03:25:47] <Gigglebyte> nvz> I ran sync
252[03:26:07] <incal> nvz: did 'sudo mandb -c' if
that's what you mean?
253[03:26:11] <dvs> Gigglebyte, it would have been better to use
the firmware iso
254[03:26:35] <Gigglebyte> dvs> location?
255[03:26:41] <dvs> !firmware iso
256[03:26:41] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images
containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available
from
replaced-url
310[04:26:01] <foul_owl_> Also, is "pulseaudio --kill"
supposed to restart pulseaudio? I still see
"/usr/bin/pulseaudio" running but the pid has changed
311[04:27:25] <sney> that would indicate a restart
312[04:27:36] <Gigglebyte> dvs> I am a bit lost
313[04:28:06] <sney> foul_owl_: anyway, I know this is debian,
but whenever I have odd pulse problems I go here first
replaced-url
316[04:29:52] <foul_owl_> I realize that a new PID would
indicate a restart, but how is pulseaudio stopped then if
"kill" == "restart" ?
317[04:30:15] <foul_owl_> The docs indicate that a restart is
done with both --kill and --start:
replaced-url
318[04:30:44] <foul_owl_> So if something is starting pulseaudio
after a --kill, that would indicate to me that something is
seriously wrong with my system
337[04:39:40] <sgo11> hi, I have different servers named
"foo" in different networks. Everything is fine except
ssh. Everytime I ssh in to a different foo server, I have to remove
the line from .ssh/known_hosts due to different keys. Can I add
muliple keys to known_hosts for a single server name somehow? or how
to workaround it? Thanks.
338[04:39:43] <Gigglebyte> dvs> I'm having trouble
making the disk bootable.
357[04:52:39] <Gigglebyte> dvs> I'm trying to figure out
if I have a wep or wpa network.
358[04:53:06] <dvs> You don't know? Who's router is
it?
359[04:54:03] <Gigglebyte> dvs> Charter Communications
(Spectrum)
360[04:54:23] <dvs> Chances are it's wpa.
361[04:55:14] <foul_owl_> Anyone know how to stop pavucontrol
from "flickering" ? The gui will randomly pop between
normal state and "Establishing connection to PulseAudio. Please
wait..." up to several times per second
362[04:56:01] <foul_owl_> Sometimes it slows down to once every
few seconds
363[04:59:57] <foul_owl_> 12 years later, pulseaudio is still a
POS :(
386[05:22:08] *** Quits: Prints (~333@replaced-ip) (Quit: deadlightbulb.com)
387[05:26:30] *** Joins: Prints (~333@replaced-ip)
388[05:26:31] <Gigglebyte> nvz> I am trying to configure the
partitions, but encountered a problem. 120 GB of the 160 GB is how
showing up as unusable . So far I have configured root, home, usr,
and var. All were setup as primary partitions.
389[05:28:21] <Gigglebyte> Any idea on how I can make the
unusable 120 GB usable?
390[05:32:02] *** Quits: Prints (~333@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
391[05:33:22] *** Joins: Prints (~333@replaced-ip)
425[06:14:20] <sgo11> how to add a key to .ssh/known_host from a
pub key file?
426[06:14:51] <sgo11> In the old days, ip/hostnames are not
hashed. I can simply copy and paste. In current days, they are all
hashed. How to add it properly? Thanks.
430[06:16:13] <bomb> that's news to me sgo11 but
ssh-keyscan seems to be the tool you need
431[06:17:28] <sgo11> bomb: thanks. I will see the manpage. I am
checking ssh-keygen manpage. It can add keys by requesting keys from
remote server. but don't find a way to do it from a file.
469[07:13:24] <jmcnaught> So there's no roadmap to other
systems if your account gets compromised.
470[07:15:20] <sgo11> jmcnaught: what do you mean by roadmap?
They are just public keys. public keys are public. Everyone can know
it. What's so dangerous if anyone know my server's public
keys?
471[07:15:34] <sgo11> Everyone can know https public keys. That
is how it works.
472[07:15:37] <jmcnaught> ~/.ssh might also contain keys, if
known_hosts is hashed it's a little harder to figure out what
other systems they now have access to.
474[07:17:07] <sgo11> ok, I get the ideas. they knew the private
keys. but if they don't know the hostnames, they don't
know where to access. ok. kinda make sense.
478[07:20:03] <sgo11> If they know my private keys and hacked my
OS, I don't think it's so hard for them to know my server
hostnames. but it makes sense now.
479[07:21:32] <sgo11> jmcnaught: yeah, I am rececking all the
known_hosts to have the right keys. Because I am using some kinda
VPN service (hosted by third-party) to access the Internet. I just
want to make sure those keys are the correct ones from my server to
avoid man in the middle attach. I need to use third-party VPN to
bypass the GFW (firewall).
522[08:08:26] <mi11k1> can somebody pls help me find a better
hack for this? I have a script just in my home right now that does
this "sudo netdiscover -r 10.42.0.0/24 -i wlan0 -PN >
/tmp/ips.tmp"
523[08:08:42] <mi11k1> i have a line in my conky that cats this
file every 60
524[08:09:01] <mi11k1> i tried to make a crontab to run the
script every 30 mins
536[08:11:10] <mi11k1> so, just make it root? i was just trying
it. ive never used crontabs before
537[08:11:20] <ksk> You should be able to make it work if you do
it correctly, but creating a root crontab entry in the first place
is much easier, and does not come with any (security) drawbacks in
that scenario imho
538[08:11:54] <mi11k1> ok, will try.
539[08:12:07] <ksk> you just do "crontab -e" as root,
and leave out the sudo in front of y our command - be aware that the
"> tmp/ips.tmp" will then be owned by root though.
541[08:13:06] <ksk> if root does create files with read
permissions for others you are fine. if not you either alter umask
(to change which rights files have on creation, systemwide), or you
do a little "chown/chmod" to the file after you created
it.
542[08:13:32] <mi11k1> shown/chmod works for me, thx
548[08:17:00] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
549[08:17:13] <mi11k1> i was happy when i came in.
550[08:17:20] <ksk> :)
551[08:17:45] <InnovAnon-Inc> you could just create the file as
non-root in the first place: <command-as-root> | sudo -u
<non-root> tee tmp/ips.tmp > /dev/null
552[08:17:46] <mi11k1> the real problem is me and dns
553[08:18:09] <ksk> mi11k1: then, maybe, lets start with: What
are you trying to do in the first place?
554[08:18:24] *** Quits: saxin (~saxin@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
555[08:18:26] <mi11k1> thats it.
556[08:18:31] <ksk> Wardriving? :D
557[08:18:39] <mi11k1> i just dont use hostnames on my network
558[08:18:48] <mi11k1> and that maybe
559[08:19:17] <mi11k1> playin with wifite. wps attacks dont do
anything these days
560[08:20:08] <mi11k1> i have a bunch of vm's, if i dont
touch it for a week, its foreign
603[09:01:33] <savantgarde> Does anyone know how to force gpg
(v2.1.18) in Debian Stretch to read the password from a file, and
not ask the user? My options would work under Ubuntu, but no matter
what I do, on Stretch it will always prompt the user
607[09:02:55] <savantgarde> Since I invoke it via `rpm
--addsign`, I've configured it in ~/.rpmmacros:
`%_gpg_sign_cmd_extra_args --batch --yes --no-tty --pinentry-mode
loopback --passphrase-file /tmp/gpg-pass`
615[09:06:54] *** Quits: leorat (~leorat@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
616[09:07:26] <savantgarde> I tried configuring it with
`--passphrase-fd 0` in ~/.rpmmacros, still wants to prompt the user:
`cat /tmp/gpg-pass| rpm --addsign -v file.rpm`
627[09:11:43] <savantgarde> Yeah, that's another
complication
628[09:11:58] <savantgarde> RPM isn't the user friendliest
software :/
629[09:12:09] <savantgarde> I'm going to read up more on
~/.rpmmacros
630[09:14:00] *** Quits: Sajesajama_ (Salsa@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
631[09:14:17] <ksk> Does this btw mean, that you are building
rpms on Debian? I am not that into packaging, but as fas I know you
kind of build on $target_system - at least if you need to pull in
anything library related (which needs to match the system)
718[10:18:28] <rccc> i have one local server, hostname is
'diogene'
719[10:18:32] <savantgarde> I used `%__gpg_sign_cmd` instead of
`%_gpg_sign_cmd_extra_args` in ~/.rpmmacros, since I suspected that
`rpm` wasn't applying the extra args
720[10:19:04] <rccc> from my computer i can use my browser and
type 'diogene.local' to get the web app on this server
721[10:19:23] <rccc> but i want to type 'my.app', not
'diogene.local'
722[10:20:01] <rccc> so i put 192.168.1.127 my.app oin
/etc/hosts on my computer but this does not works...
723[10:20:57] *** Quits: dez (uid92154@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
724[10:23:59] *** Quits: vassenn (~vassenn@replaced-ip) (Quit: qicr for android: faster and better)
725[10:24:03] <gryffus> Please could anyone review and remove
redundant lines from my preseed.cfg?
replaced-url
728[10:25:09] <gryffus> I am not sure what is the difference
between partman-auto/automatically_partition and
partman-auto/init_automatically_partition, between partman-auto/disk
and partman-auto/select_disk and so on...
744[10:45:28] <Haohmaru> gryffus i had to websearch what preseed
is, and within 5 minutes i found this, which might be useful for you
perhaps?
replaced-url
754[10:48:59] <mebus> Hi! If I have "deb
replaced-url
755[10:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1260
756[10:49:20] <Haohmaru> gryffus hm?
757[10:49:25] <mebus> For some reason I am still on
0.7.12-2+deb10u2 :-(
758[10:49:45] <gryffus> "If you choose guided partitioning
for an entire disk, you will next be asked which disk should be
used." .... why would I care what I will be asked next? I need
to know what exactly that option does and not what question comes
next...
759[10:50:13] <Haohmaru> oh
760[10:50:46] <Haohmaru> maybe test it..? ;P~
761[10:51:23] <gryffus> Haohmaru, yeah, I will have to test
every option... great thanks Debian documentation :)
762[10:51:44] <Haohmaru> sarcasm?
763[10:51:50] <ratrace> mebus: did you run apt udpate after
enabling buster backports?
765[10:54:36] <gryffus> Haohmaru, well, I will have to rebuild
an iso, copy to server and boot it for about 30 times because I will
have to test many of the options to tell what they actually do. So
yeah, the thanks is a sarcasm
807[11:07:16] <frontrunnerrr> hello ! I have a specific question
about my backup scenario, can I ask it here... ? My laptop came with
a pre-installed WIN10 on a PCIe SSD (256GB) - I then installed
debian on it, LVM with LUKS, full disk used
819[11:10:46] <Haohmaru> ratrace i remember times when kids used
the enter key instead of the spacebar, literally
820[11:10:59] <frontrunnerrr> apt-get dist-upgrade throws errors
from time to time. cryptsetup device not found, and it points to
/dev/nvme0n1p5 - but everything seems to work fine. I am just trying
to understand whats going on, any idea
821[11:11:27] <ratrace> Haohmaru: I blame PEP8!
822[11:11:38] <Haohmaru> who dat?
823[11:12:02] <ratrace> frontrunnerrr: when that happens, look
at the end of `dmesg` to see if any hardware issues are reported
824[11:12:21] *** Quits: behanw (uid110099@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
825[11:12:32] <ratrace> you can also check logs since last boot,
`journalctl -k -p err`
826[11:13:56] <frontrunnerrr> okay, good hint, let me check next
time with dmesg
827[11:16:13] <frontrunnerrr> thank you, will check both
commands and try to get a better understanding of whats going on;
also of the difference between space key and enter key :-)
853[11:48:55] <dob1> I don't understand what I am doing
wrong echo somestring_base64 |base64 -d gives me the real string but
echo the_output |base64 doesn't gives me back the original
string
866[12:04:20] <brutser> i installed minimal debian with some
openbox on top, but for some reason zeitgeist is installed, is that
with the minimal debian already installed? i don't need this
package to collect logs on the device, this is embedded system i am
developing for, how to remove this zeitgeist logger?
867[12:05:02] <brutser> and how can i find out what caused it to
be installed?
931[12:49:46] <Dexx1_> I am trying to download all MP3's
linked on a website/URL, but wget doesn't work - it simply says
FINISHED without dowloading anything. My command: wget -r -l1 -H -nd
-c -A mp3 -e robots=off
replaced-url
948[13:04:10] <neox_> Ok ? I'm wondering... Because I
uninstalled xorg-xserver-video-amdgpu and amdgpu is working
perfectly. So is the driver included with wayland ?
1013[13:51:19] <brutser> i have a workstation with debian host
and qemu-kvm with several debian guest vms (and some other
distro's), primarily for development - now for copying text
between those vm's i have spice-vdagent that works fine, but
when i have some code editor opened, copy text, close the text
editor - i lost the copy in memory < that is caused because of
the
1014[13:51:19] <brutser> absence of a clipboard manager, right?
< now my problem is, if i install the clipboard manager on the
host, it seems to interfere with spice-vdagent, at least with diodon
< what is a good solution here?
1113[15:27:18] <kodapa> hello, running debian sid. today upgrade
removed some kde packages, kde-task-desktop among them. When
installing kde-task-desktop again I got this:ibkpimkdav5abi2 :
Depends: libkpimkdav-data (= 19.08.3-1) but it is not installable
1114[15:27:22] <kodapa> anyone saw this before?
1115[15:27:43] <karlpinc> !debian-next
1116[15:27:43] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for
testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not*
on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is
invite only)." it means you did not read it's on
irc.oftc.net. See also
replaced-url
1117[15:28:06] <kodapa> ah sorry, my bad I'll ask there :)
1208[17:08:30] <dpkg> Try to give enough context! For example,
let us know which command/program you are running, what you
expected, and what you got instead. Try to be as specific as
possible. If your command produced output, share the complete
command (with all parameters!) and its output on
replaced-url
1316[18:39:50] *** Quits: endstille (~endstille@replaced-ip) (Quit: I'll be back.)
1317[18:39:52] <somiaj> It is just partly due to how packages
migrate into buster, debian-security provides a way for secuirty
fixes to migrate into buster (a frozen repo) as security issues are
found, and buster-updates provides a way for stuff to be avaialble
before point release for grave bug fixes.
1324[18:41:19] <frabbit> release? isnt "buster" the
release?
1325[18:41:51] <frabbit> or wait
1326[18:42:09] <frabbit> you wrote: debian-security provides a
way for secuirty fixes to migrate into buster (a frozen repo) as
security issues are found
1327[18:42:57] <frabbit> my question is why isnt there just one
entry in sources.list that contains all that stuff (updates,
security)
1328[18:43:06] <frabbit> i have to make 2 or 3
1329[18:43:31] <frabbit> but all have the same url
1332[18:44:31] <somiaj> frabbit: As the bot said, most will want
3, because they are different repos
1333[18:44:48] <jmcnaught> Well, you might not want
buster-updates (bug fixes that may change how things work) so those
are optional. And sómiaj already explained that security is
separate because buster (and all Debian stable releases) are frozen,
so a separate repo is needed for security updates.
1335[18:46:02] <petn-randall> frabbit: the security repo is only
recently also on the deb.debian.org redirector. You might also want
one repo but not the other ... for reasons.
1337[18:47:18] <somiaj> Also there is no method to upload
directly to a stable repo, debian packages have to follow a certain
flow, and comming through secuiryt is how security fixes get into
stable.
1340[18:48:08] <somiaj> Not really, just take some time to learn
it, might want to start at the debian development structure,
packages get uploaded to sid, migrate to testing, testing freezes,
after all the rc-bugs are dealt with, testing is released and
becomes frozen.
1350[18:50:41] <frabbit> hmm.. but thats a lot of work that way.
having a system that updates from one entry and fixes security
issues and upgrade to new versions as soon as they are available is
much easier to maintain isnt it?
1351[18:51:11] <frabbit> i dont say its bad how it s done, only
more work
1352[18:51:21] <ravioli> is there a way to run a command and find
out the maximum amount of memory consumed by that command?
1353[18:52:10] <gena2x> i do not think there is such tool, but
you can record results of ps every second
1355[18:53:11] <ravioli> it's a python script that deals
with a very large text file... it takes a very short amount of time
(way less than a second) but I want to see what the memory impacts
of a larger version of that text file is.
1356[18:53:30] <ravioli> i'm picturing something like the
time command but for memory
1357[18:53:31] <ravioli> that'd be neat
1358[18:53:32] *** Joins: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
1381[19:01:43] <somiaj> frabbit: there are advantages to it,
having an altnerative method to get packages into stable via a
security repo then allows an alternative team access to upload
packages, so in some resepcts it is easier to matain since there is
more control of how packages get into a frozen relese.
1383[19:02:36] <somiaj> frabbit: but in general this is just
debian's development model and policy. Buster if frozen, and
packages dont' ever get uploaded directly to buster, they go
through some entry point, and once stable is released,
stable-updates and stable-security are the ways to get fixes into
stable
1397[19:06:05] <frabbit> so in buster is gpg 2.2.12 while gpg
project itself doesnt maintain this version of gpg anymore, menas
debian need to maintain that old version to keep it secure
1398[19:06:08] *** Quits: b1ackandwh1te (~b1ackandw@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1399[19:06:38] <frabbit> *means
1400[19:06:52] <frabbit> correct?
1401[19:07:25] <gswan> lol
1402[19:07:28] *** Quits: gswan (~gswan@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
1406[19:08:32] *** Quits: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: conta)
1407[19:08:41] <somiaj> frabbit: yes, the debian security team
backports fixes to the frozen version. Often times upstream helps
with this (Even if they dont' offically support the older
version)
1411[19:09:46] <somiaj> In cases this is not possible debian has
had to make some exceptions. chormium/firefox don't get
backports, they get new releases to fix secirty issues. and
virtualbox has been removed from debian since oracle policy
won't allow their team to help backport fixes (even though the
team offered to do so)
1415[19:10:41] <somiaj> frabbit: It is way more work if adding a
new version breaks everyones servers, frozen releases have their
place and many do not want new features to fix a secirty bug.
1416[19:10:50] <somiaj> frabbit: then debian is not for you
1418[19:11:07] <frabbit> somiaj: i undertsand that idea behind
the debian structure
1419[19:11:15] <frabbit> *understand
1420[19:11:26] <greycat> If that's what you want, use
upstream's code instead of Debian packages for this specific
application.
1421[19:11:42] <frabbit> greycat: i think gentoo is like this?
1422[19:12:13] <frabbit> wrong tabbed
1423[19:12:26] <frabbit> greycat: what means upstream? the devs
of a program?
1424[19:12:36] <greycat> If you're trying to say
"Debian should be like Gentoo", just go away.
1425[19:12:42] <greycat> !upstream
1426[19:12:42] <dpkg> from memory, upstream is where Debian
developers download software from.
replaced-url
1427[19:13:22] <frabbit> greycat: wtf?! i didnt say anything like
that, i jst try to understand why distributions handles versions so
differently =/
1428[19:13:44] <frabbit> ah thats how that bot works
1429[19:13:57] <greycat> !stable
1430[19:13:57] <dpkg> [stable] The status of a Debian release
when no packages will be added or version-bumped, and changes will
only fix security issues and critical bugs. Packages can be removed
in rare circumstances. The current stable version of Debian is
Buster (10.x); ask me about <releases>. Security bugs are
fixed in stable by backporting the fix to the stable version (ask me
about <security backports>).
replaced-url
1431[19:14:02] <frabbit> is that irc specific?
1432[19:14:08] <somiaj> because there are different use cases,
and each distro has decided on its own policies of what a release is
and how it will be supported
1435[19:15:54] <petn-randall> frabbit: You're probably look
for "Linux from scratch"?
1436[19:16:03] <somiaj> debian provides a well tested frozen
release with 60,000+ packages, which works great in lots of use
cases, and many just need a few select pieces of new software and
still use debian and install the few needs from upstream.
1438[19:16:23] <petn-randall> frabbit: Be prepared to spend weeks
to get a working system, and repeat that process every time a
security update comes out.
1439[19:16:26] <frabbit> and is there some statistic somewhere
that shows wich structure has to do more security fixes? or debian
specific: will there be (in summary) as much security fixes in a
stable debian lifetime as in the same on a rolling release distro?
1440[19:17:41] <frabbit> petn-randall: with lfs? =) im sure it
would be like this xD
1445[19:20:08] <petn-randall> frabbit: There are many good
reasons that no distro packages the latest and greatest from
upstream. Stability being mostly the issue.
1446[19:20:53] <frabbit> petn-randall: ok. and about the security
statistics?
1447[19:21:19] <greycat> Distros that shovel the latest bleeding
edge crap out the door ASAP probably don't bother fixing
security bugs. They just rely on upstream to fix them.
1448[19:21:27] <gena2x> living on unstable here for last i do not
know 15 years, it is in fact way more stable than let's say
windows...
1449[19:21:58] <gena2x> just do not update daily and there would
not be much to fix.
1450[19:22:06] <ratrace> greycat: well pretty much all distros,
debian included, do that. patches are ported from upstreams githubs
and whatnot, unless the upstream is dead or unresponsive which is
rare
1454[19:22:38] <ratrace> perhaps you meant those distros (you
mentioned) don't bother (back)porting cherry picked paches, but
rely on upstream version bumps
1455[19:22:47] <greycat> yes, that's what I mean
1456[19:23:21] <frabbit> greycat: im more interessted in getting
the software directly from the devs and they will probably fix
security issues first arent they?
1462[19:23:51] <ratrace> frabbit: note that some (many?) will
also add new (untested) features as well
1463[19:24:01] <frabbit> ratrace: sure
1464[19:24:44] <ratrace> frabbit: there's slackware if you
want pristine upstream packages, and archlinux if you want most
bleeding edge churn
1465[19:25:05] <petn-randall> frabbit: distros have certain
policies for quality control, and act upon upstream software to
ensure that this quality is ensured. So Debian for examples patches
out problematic tracking out of chromium, or straight out refuses to
package certain software due to lack of quality.
1467[19:25:22] <petn-randall> frabbit: If you fetch straight from
upstream you'll have to do all that triaging yourself.
1468[19:25:24] <ratrace> gentoo is not bleeding edge, it's a
rolling release that has a stable branch (default). some pacakges
are older in gentoo than they're in debian for example
1472[19:27:52] <frabbit> petn-randall: i see. but "fetching
ou problematic tracking" is a bad way to handle shitty google
software ;) better policy would be to avoid software that comes wich
such "features" then fixing them...
1483[19:32:14] <frabbit> i mean that would mean the most upstream
stuff is crap and need to get fixed or qualify by debian
maintainers...
1484[19:32:55] <ratrace> and that's about correct state of
things :)
1485[19:33:51] <frabbit> ratrace: ah.. sorry cant translate that.
can u rephrase it for me please?
1486[19:34:01] <ratrace> all software sucks. some just sucks
more.
1487[19:34:02] <petn-randall> frabbit: Yes. upstream can't
cater the needs of *everyone*. That's why distros patch
software to adapt to their needs and policies.
1488[19:34:12] <frabbit> ratrace: lol
1489[19:34:19] <petn-randall> frabbit: And that's also the
advantage of free software. :)
1490[19:34:47] <petn-randall> frabbit: If you're be that
idalistic, no browser would be packaged in Debian. Firefox also had
their issues in the past.
1491[19:35:24] <frabbit> i hate ff...
1492[19:35:36] <ratrace> and new ones are on their way... .like
disposition: attachment for PDF files that's gonna be
removed....
1493[19:35:37] <frabbit> atm im trying to get rid of it
1505[19:36:41] <EdePopede> ah. i wanted to set up a system with
their stuff already
1506[19:36:59] <frabbit> EdePopede: i use a lot from them. love
it! =>
1507[19:37:23] <Gigglebyte> I am wondering if someone can assist
with recovering a lost username and password. So far I have followed
the instructions found here for the username
replaced-url
1508[19:37:23] <Gigglebyte>
overy+mode+with+Debian+Linux%3F&oq=How+to+boot+into+recovery+mode+with+Debian+Linux%3F&aqs=chrome..69i57.8232j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
and I still get an error message indicating incorrect password. I
just installed Deiban Linux on a friend's computer which came
with Windows Visa on an older legacy Toshiba Satellite.
1509[19:37:24] <ratrace> keep in mind that there's now only
two or three browser engines out there. gecko (FF), blink (Chrome,
chromium, Edge) aaand.... webkit methinks?
1510[19:37:47] <frabbit> ratrace: yes webkit
1511[19:37:49] <EdePopede> the problem with browsers is mostly
the modern web. vivaldi or what i tried some time ago, couldn't
even display 2-D lists (like youtube's video pages in channels)
1513[19:37:59] <ratrace> and consider that
"alternative" browsers that don't use the above
engines, are quite likely lacking features and security
mitigations...
1514[19:38:06] <frabbit> EdePopede: yeah the web is broken
1515[19:38:13] <frabbit> broken by design
1516[19:38:37] <EdePopede> they want you to use their apps if
they have one.
1517[19:39:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1292
1518[19:39:11] <EdePopede> so you'll end up with a dozen
installed instances of chromium as basis for some electron crap
1519[19:39:30] <ratrace> and then those apps are written in
HTML5+javascript, wrapped in phonegap and cross-platformed to all
devices, so the circle is COMPLETE, everything leads back to HTML5
:)
1522[19:40:04] <EdePopede> i like html5 apps, but they
shouldn't use this for pages.
1523[19:40:46] <frabbit> i block a lot, but i avoid websites that
wnat to force me to use anything else then html, css (except some
shops that need js)
1524[19:41:02] <EdePopede> or to say i like the idea that it is
perfectly possible to have just a naked html container and let JS do
all the rest. but that SHOULD stay restricted to apps.
1525[19:41:13] <ratrace> I don't care about that. I'm
enjoying the internet in its fullest potential :)
1526[19:41:27] <frabbit> "potential"...
1527[19:41:27] <EdePopede> i can't even use the recent
youtube ;)
1535[19:42:14] <EdePopede> maybe i should give the new raspi a
chance, it has 8GB at least :>
1536[19:42:21] <EdePopede> frabbit: youtube-dl
1537[19:42:23] <frabbit> EdePopede: use mastdon instead of
twitter
1538[19:42:26] *** Quits: xsisec_ (~xsisec@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1539[19:42:51] <frabbit> sure i browse youtube with lynx and
watch it with mpv + ytdl
1540[19:42:58] <EdePopede> i don't have an accoung on either
of them, but everyone seems to post shit to twitter and others have
to tell the world about it *shrug*
1541[19:43:03] <ratrace> no wonder y'all hate the internet.
y'all can't see it right! :)
1542[19:43:26] <frabbit> ratrace: dude...
1543[19:43:35] <EdePopede> i just don't like the corporated
internet. and i like simple things to be simple.
1544[19:43:36] <ratrace> dude!
1545[19:43:43] <EdePopede> dudettes!
1546[19:43:46] <frabbit> please dont be provocative... =(
1547[19:43:55] <karlpinc> EdePopede: The touble with the rasppies
is that the've always required non-free software to work
because they had broadcomm chips. Haven't looked lately.
1548[19:44:04] <frabbit> the internet was sold long time ago...
1549[19:44:24] <frabbit> karlpinc: yeah and thats sad =(
1550[19:44:35] <EdePopede> karlpinc: the thing is i think i paid
10 times the price of the new one for this pc here 12 years ago :)
1551[19:44:37] <ratrace> provocative? haha, no. you mean opinion
balanced against luddism.
1552[19:44:50] <frabbit> ratrace: ...
1553[19:45:29] <EdePopede> and it's a midi tower. the nvidia
i used to replaced the broken amd (yes, blame me for having confused
them) was about the price of that whole raspi.
1554[19:45:51] <ratrace> the internet and internet technologies
are putting food on my table. good things. yummy things. I <3
them.
1555[19:45:54] <frabbit> ratrace: The Luddites hate machine, i do
not.
1556[19:46:04] <EdePopede> frabbit: you didn't read them yet
in #debian-offtopic ;)
1557[19:46:05] <frabbit> because i like them i hate the
"modern" web
1560[19:46:59] <EdePopede> frabbit: Luddites? i thought it was
the Bene Tleilax. and yes, "them". seems to be the gender
neutral designation these days ;)
1561[19:46:59] <frabbit> is ratrace more then one person? =D
1562[19:47:11] <ratrace> we are
1563[19:47:11] <frabbit> err.. ok
1564[19:47:15] *** woot` is now known as yawn`
1565[19:47:20] <frabbit> we are legion? xD
1566[19:47:29] <EdePopede> we debian users? yes.
1567[19:47:37] <ratrace> EdePopede: I like the machines from Ix.
Better than those on Richesse.
1568[19:47:38] <frabbit> but then legion changed the sites xD
1569[19:47:43] *** Quits: tuxmania (~tuxmania@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1578[19:49:22] <frabbit> (and thats not correct english xD)
1579[19:49:55] *** stillyawning` is now known as yawningstill`
1580[19:49:56] <EdePopede> talking about books, does debian have
some kind of doc server that could be put on top of some httpd?
ideally something that could deliver manpages, info, package docs,
and just stuff to read from somewhere on the disk.
1582[19:50:53] <ratrace> I'm not aware of such an all-in-one
solution
1583[19:50:59] <greycat> ,info man2html
1584[19:51:00] <judd> Package man2html (doc, optional) in
buster/amd64: browse man pages in your web browser. Version:
1.6g-11; Size: 29.2k; Installed: 141k; Homepage:
replaced-url
1585[19:51:10] <ratrace> other than pure httpd and let your
client launch proper app by mimetype
1586[19:51:34] <EdePopede> thanks, i'll look for it. if
it's a scripted solution it may be a starting point to also
implement pandoc or whatever.
1587[19:52:19] <EdePopede> i just was remembering the docserver
task (or what they call it) suse had years ago, probably still has.
1588[19:53:22] <EdePopede> the url seems to be really old.
package not maintained anymore and the linked .nl server is gone :(
1589[19:53:43] <frabbit> ratrace: btw. Luddites werent fighting
against machine because they dont like them, they were fighting
against the authorities that using machines to get the people into
slavery
1596[19:55:45] <somiaj> Do you awnt your own local server for
this? There are some out there already (Though I guess they have
different versions of the man pages)
1599[19:57:00] <skyroveRR> Hey guys, slackware uses a script
called "package.SlackBuild" that has all the
configure/make/make install/makepkg statements for preparing
packages from source. Is there a similar method debian uses to build
packages? I'm looking for that particular file per package that
debian uses for building packages from source. Which file is it? And
where can I find it? Like for example, I'm looking for the
options
1600[19:57:02] <skyroveRR> used in the build file debian used for
compiling gcc?
1601[19:57:10] <somiaj> ,i debiman
1602[19:57:11] <karlpinc> EdePopede: Sounds like something you
have to configure yourself. You could also look at gnu.org and see
what components they use, since they put man and info pages on the
web.
1603[19:57:12] <judd> Package debiman (devel, optional) in
buster/amd64: generate a static manpage HTML repository out of a
Debian archive. Version: 0.0~git20180905.9955035-1+b11; Size:
8255.4k; Installed: 31891k; Homepage:
replaced-url
1605[19:58:30] <EdePopede> karlpinc: i thought already of looking
into suse to see what they did. but it was some collection of
scripts (perl iirc) and html templates. would be nice to transfer it
to python and use pandoc somehow.
1611[20:00:20] <EdePopede> and i strongly prefer a good layout
over just text cells. and linked, structured content.
1612[20:00:34] <karlpinc> EdePopede: In that case there's
also /usr/share/doc/<packagename>/* which can also have useful
"stuff" that's not anywhere else.
1613[20:01:00] <EdePopede> especially some manpages are insanely
big, i really have problems getting through those similar to mpv and
ffmpeg
1614[20:01:43] <EdePopede> karlpinc: yep. only i've seen so
many packages with just the upstream and debian changelog and the
gpl. frustrating :(
1615[20:02:07] <skyroveRR> Anyone?
1616[20:02:43] <somiaj> !nmg
1617[20:02:43] <dpkg> The packaging tutorial (replaced-url
1618[20:02:44] <greycat> Debian's packages are created by
Debian developers. Using labor.
1619[20:02:59] <greycat> You would NOT want an automatically
created package. It would be shit.
1620[20:03:21] <petn-randall> skyroveRR: There's no single
script that does the packaging if that's what you're
asking for. The nmg is probably a good starting point to read up on
it. ^^^
1621[20:03:47] <somiaj> If the source is fairly standard, debian
helper can automate a lot for a local package, but it woudln't
be the quality needed to get into debian, it is just a starting
point.
1622[20:03:51] <karlpinc> skyroveRR: See, e.g.:
replaced-url
1635[20:12:16] <skyroveRR> somiaj: I'd like to compare
debian's package build methods with slackware's. Slackware
has a single package build file, a slack-desc which is a package
description file, and doinst.sh, which is a post-install script
invoked by the slackware package manager. The package.SlackBuild
file has everything, every single sentence from extracting the
tarball to configure, make, make install, and the final package
1636[20:12:18] <skyroveRR> making command in it. I'm curious
how debian does that. But looking at
replaced-url
1637[20:13:05] <InnovAnon-Inc> most packages are going to have
'quirks' that'll get in the way of your magic script.
I use a magic one-size-fits-all script to debianize my autotools
projects, but I can make a lot of assumptions about them, and
they're all pretty much the "same." ahh.. you may be
able to script that.
1643[20:14:39] <skyroveRR> greycat: something like this:
replaced-url
1644[20:15:12] <greycat> so it's *not* just one gigantic
"how2build" file?
1645[20:15:23] <somiaj> skyroveRR: start with the new matainer
guide, but debian provides a lot of (often needed) customizing to
patches that are all contained in a debian/, in general debian ships
both the unmodified upstream source, and the debian/ which contains
build info (including patches)
1646[20:15:49] <skyroveRR> greycat: well no. But the slackbuild
file has at least the autoconf options used to create that package.
1647[20:16:01] <greycat> Not every upstream package *uses*
autoconf.
1648[20:16:29] <skyroveRR> greycat: I know. There's cmake,
scons too. But even those things go into the package.SlackBuild.
1649[20:16:48] <skyroveRR> Like this one:
replaced-url
1651[20:17:35] <greycat> The debian/rules file is a Makefile that
tells the basic steps for building the source. But that is only one
piece of creating a Debian package. There's also the changelog
which contains vital information (including the package version
number -- this *forces* the devs to write a changelog!), and license
management.
1652[20:17:54] <skyroveRR> Ah!
1653[20:18:25] <InnovAnon-Inc> Q: how to do I magically build any
package, even if it uses autoconf or cmake or pure make or
whatever... A: what a nightmare.
replaced-url
1654[20:18:31] <skyroveRR> greycat: yup! Now that's the kind
of the file I was looking for.
1677[20:41:08] <skyroveRR> somiaj: karlpinc: greycat: thanks a
lot for your inputs. I'm gonna take my time reading through the
material you provided in your links.
1752[21:21:06] <greycat> yeah, thought so... the "bnc"
is usually a good indicator
1753[21:21:16] *** Joins: wilson (~wilson@replaced-ip)
1754[21:21:37] <jelly> scarface, if you want someone to even
begin guessing what went wrong, show the full output of the failed
command. Or at least the lines where the errors START
1755[21:21:40] <jelly> !paste
1756[21:21:40] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this
channel. Instead, use for text:
replaced-url
1757[21:21:58] <greycat> in any case, this "sbnc" thing
was apparently removed from Debian after version 8, and yet
you're not even trying to install the Debian 8 package, but
rather, trying to compile what I can only assume is upstream's
source code...
1758[21:22:21] <jelly> I set up multiple users and each user runs
their own znc. But that is me.
1759[21:22:40] <greycat> Perhaps what's needed is a
different "bouncer" that hasn't been abandoned and
discarded.
1760[21:23:06] * jelly only knows of znc as still having a nondead
upstream
1761[21:23:48] <scarface> Yeah i hate sbnc and use znc myself ,
but some newbie rather use sbnc instaid :((( and he is not wanna use
znc :
1762[21:24:09] *** Quits: _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1771[21:26:50] <greycat> It also helps to have a basic
understanding of the toolchain. "make" reads a Makefile
for instructions, compared timestamps on files, and runs compilers
and linkers and stuff to build the software. If the compiler (or
whatever) spits out an error, you'll see that error, and then
make will catch the error status, and also write its *own* errors.
1868[22:50:28] <kale> hi i am looking for some project management
tool. which is task oriented. i need to set up a template for a
task, which then has several subtasks with dependencies. do you guys
know of something like that in debian repository?
1918[23:40:54] *** Quits: Gerula (~Gerula@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1919[23:41:20] <annadane> needrestart or checkrestart but i think
needrestart is the only one that hooks into apt and it's a fork
of checkrestart which implies improvements
1920[23:41:26] <annadane> (checkrestart being part of the
debian-goodies package)
1921[23:42:00] * annadane wonders if anyone doesn't use things
like that and just tracks everything manually
1935[23:50:15] <efloid> needrestart is written in Perl
1936[23:50:25] *** Quits: fax (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1937[23:51:20] <efloid> maybe this is an area where Perl really
shines: administrative system scripts
1938[23:52:03] <IanJ> efloid: that's probably testament to
the coder who wrote it rather than the language itself. I've
seen some god awful perl in my time :P
1939[23:52:23] <Deano59> can anyone explain why NM-APPLET under
Debian buster fails to detect/give me an IP when a Openvpn config is
set?
1940[23:52:38] <Deano59> if I run via bash it works just fine.
1941[23:53:30] <greycat> I suppose it's *possible* to write
perl code that "looks nice", but it's not the norm.
1942[23:54:02] <greycat> That said, perl is a fine language for
certain kinds of tasks, and if you want to learn it, by all means go
for it.
1957[23:59:04] <miskatonic> I have heard of something called
perlwm, but it is excluded from debian; and I am not sure that it
holds a candle to ratpoison