People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian
an IRC -Channel at freenode
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2021-06-01)
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13 [00:08:24] <g0zzy> Just wondering why wifi should fail on a
laptop. This includes a usb wifi adapter i plugged in to cure the
problem. What could be up?
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15 [00:09:12] <epsilon> wifi chip too new?
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17 [00:10:26] <g0zzy> No this is an ancient Sony Vaio
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21 [00:13:19] <maxtim> I was wrong. Kernel panic remains after
ensuring cifs-utils is correct version to kernel and samba
22 [00:13:30] <dvs> wifi chip too old? ;-P Did you load the
firmware code for it?
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25 [00:15:07] <maxtim> g0zzy, it's possible you might have
a proprietary chip. I used to have an old Sony Viao and I had to
write a script to reload the firmware every so often. It was a pain
in butt
26 [00:15:44] <g0zzy> Right. But it's been fine for years
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41 [00:26:57] <g0zzy1> I suppose the router could have crapped
out
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45 [00:29:36] <humpled> so it was working and now it isn't
although no software has changed?
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49 [00:32:53] <g0zzy1> That's right. I think it's
conceivable that i have hardware too near the router that's
causing wifi problem. As in absolutely next to it. e.g. i'm
running badblocks on a spinning rust disk next to it
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51 [00:34:02] <g0zzy1> But again .. i've always had a NUC
and disks next to it and it's only recently become a problem
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56 [00:36:06] <humpled> but
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59 [00:41:16] <warsoul> whats the command to delete a user
completely
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61 [00:41:17] <warsoul> ?
62 [00:41:38] <maxtim> deluser?
63 [00:41:59] <warsoul> it doesnt delete everything
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65 [00:42:44] <humpled> wait
66 [00:42:54] <humpled> didn't you ask the same thing 8
hours ago?
67 [00:43:19] <warsoul> yesterday i think
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70 [00:43:35] <humpled> and someone said probably
<command> <option>, but you should read the man page to
check
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75 [00:45:37] <epsilon> if you also want to delete his files,
check /home
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79 [00:47:09] <g0zzy1> Thanks for the moral support folks
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82 [00:47:42] <humpled> i guess you checked rfkill?
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93 [00:54:25] <maxtim> Just a quick recap: cifs-utils is causing
kernel panic:
replaced-url
94 [00:55:07] <karlpinc> deluser has a --remove-all-files
option.
95 [00:56:00] <lastebill1> what's the best way to run plank
on startup (running raspbian)
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101 [01:04:34] <humpled> looks like a window manager/desktop
thing, what do you normally use for that?
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115 [01:11:31] <lastebill1> humpled honestly it seems like
raspbian doesn't have one. I'll need to use the terminal
or install one
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119 [01:17:28] <ilikeyou> mannn, Buster is not agreeing with my
C720. wifi is shoddy and Bluetooth support is non existent .
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146 [01:45:40] <nt80> guys I've recently found my debian VPS
missing apt/apt-get binaries after an upgrade from 9 to 10 and
migrating the VPS to other node. What (even in theory) could have
caused those binares missing?
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151 [01:52:19] <nt80> oh, found it in aptirude/history log, after
an `apt dist-upgrade` the apt has appeared in the 'Remove:
' list. nvm.
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215 [02:49:12] <TTT> hi, just a quick one, if I install debian on
an encrypted root partition, that partition is crypted with luks,
not dm-crypt, right? Is there an option to set up dm-crypt
encryption for root?
216 [02:49:44] <TTT> installer is a bit misleading, as it says
"dm-crypt" as an option to encrypt partition, but it ends
up luks v2 container
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257 [03:12:32] <mikeymop> the installer asks for realtek
firmware, I have the .deb however I cannot add it because the debian
image is ro
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259 [03:12:44] <mikeymop> I tried using fedora media writer and
startup disk creator
260 [03:12:59] <mikeymop> can I like, mount -t the .iso add the
.deb to the firmare in the .iso then restore the disk image onto a
usb?
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263 [03:14:52] <somiaj> the installer requires a second usb drive
with the .deb or firmware file on it
264 [03:15:33] <somiaj> you can also skip this step initially
(netinstall has a fully functional minimial install on it that
dosen't require the internet), and then install the firmware
after you complete the install, and before you install the rest of
the software.
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272 [03:23:08] <dashs> tmpfs is not automagically mount for NIS
logins Debian 10?
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280 [03:30:22] <SerajewelKS> dashs: you're gonna have to be
quite a bit more specific than that
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282 [03:30:38] <SerajewelKS> i'm not aware of any per-user
tmpfs that's mounted by default on debian
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288 [03:34:03] <dashs> Serajewelks - These are the /run/user/uid
tmpfs which should be created for each login.
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292 [03:35:18] <dashs> Serajewelks - This particular system has
no xorg, but does use NIS.
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349 [04:26:51] <warsoul> is getting crazy :P
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401 [05:48:02] <warsoul> whats going on here?
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414 [05:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1498
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419 [06:05:26] <Naif> IDK
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429 [06:13:41] *** mnemonic is now known as Guest15467
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436 [06:29:27] <annadane> if your distro support channel is
quiet, maybe it means it's working as expected. :-D
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506 [07:23:00] <OS-44565> /msg NickServ IDENTIFY 1234
507 [07:23:22] *** Quits: _till_ (~till@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
508 [07:25:45] <vlt> OS-44565: Usually someone would advise now
to change your password ASAP ... but 1234?
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514 [07:35:15] <Daniel15> That's amazing, I've got the
same combination on my luggage
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542 [07:53:31] <darxmurf> The auto indentation in VIM for bash
scripts is broken, I opened a bug repport and someone said "
543 [07:53:35] <darxmurf> It's unlikely to get fixed in
Buster"
544 [07:53:37] *** Joins: cthonic (~otho@replaced-ip )
545 [07:53:50] <darxmurf> Oo they will keep it like this for 1
year?
546 [07:53:51] *** Joins: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip )
547 [07:54:13] <annadane> link to the report?
548 [07:54:14] <OS-44565> It's not my Password. I did not
know what to write from the windows and did a test send to get an
error.
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553 [07:55:55] * nvz has the same password on his luggage
554 [07:56:29] <darxmurf>
replaced-url
555 [07:56:35] <nvz> OS-44565: regardless we don't support
kali, oppsec, or any of that crap in here
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558 [07:57:00] *** _pa is now known as Vjetar
559 [07:57:09] <annadane> well firstly that bug report says
testing
560 [07:57:13] <annadane> second, i see no replies
561 [07:57:33] *** Quits: _till_ (~till@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
562 [07:57:53] <darxmurf> same vim version, and I got a reply
here:
replaced-url
563 [07:57:54] <judd> Bug
replaced-url
564 [07:58:54] <annadane> yeah, that's annoying. i guess
reply to the bug report and ask why not but it wouldn't be the
first time a bug goes unfixed in stable
565 [07:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1510
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572 [08:02:48] <nvz> auto indenting xml isn't really a
release critical bug
573 [08:02:51] <saul> i'm having trouble getting the
installer to locate some .ucode firmware files for a wifi device.
the .ucode files are in the root a fat32 partition
574 [08:03:02] *** Joins: Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@replaced-ip )
575 [08:03:03] <nvz> unless the programs sole purpose is to auto
indent xml maybe :P
576 [08:03:06] <saul> the documentation doesnt say where to mount
the firmware medium
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578 [08:03:27] <saul> it claims the installer "will scan
available devices for either loose firmware files or packages
containing firmware"
579 [08:03:34] <choon> is there any chance DNS over TLS will come
to debian in systemd? Systemd 243 got it now
580 [08:03:34] <nvz> !firmware images
581 [08:03:35] <Haohmaru> o hai there, mr nvz
582 [08:03:35] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images
containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available
from
replaced-url
583 [08:03:44] <nvz> Haohmaru: lies..
584 [08:03:56] <saul> in dmesg, i am seeing firmware: failed to
load ilwifi-.....ucode (-2)
585 [08:03:59] <Haohmaru> i'm still copying /home x_x
586 [08:04:08] <saul> so it's not finding but i dont know
where it's looking
587 [08:04:34] <saul> nvz: sounds like i should just start over
using those images :)
588 [08:04:42] *** Quits: tekmans13 (~tekmans@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
589 [08:04:48] <annadane> systemd will get backported at some
stage so yes
590 [08:04:57] <saul> and remember the installer is broken in
this regard
591 [08:05:00] <annadane> ,v systemd
592 [08:05:01] <judd> Package: systemd on amd64 -- jessie:
215-17+deb8u7; jessie-security: 215-17+deb8u13; stretch:
232-25+deb9u11; stretch-security: 232-25+deb9u11;
stretch-proposed-updates: 232-25+deb9u12; stretch-backports:
241-5~bpo9+1; buster: 241-5; buster-proposed-updates: 241-7~deb10u1;
bullseye: 241-7; sid: 241-7; experimental: 242-2+b1
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597 [08:08:11] <choon> annadane: thanks!
replaced-url
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599 [08:08:28] <nvz> saul: that would be my recommendation to use
the firmware netinstall if you dont have a good reason not to
600 [08:09:10] <nvz> saul: if your internet is REALLY slow,
limited bandwidth or such, my 2nd recommendation would be to proceed
through install without configuring network and install as much as
you can, fix it after first boot
601 [08:09:47] <nvz> that whole loading firmware files from the
installer is vaguely documented and rather stupid.. IMHO
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604 [08:11:23] <saul> nvz: agree, it's something i've
always avoided
605 [08:11:45] <saul> i was actually cloning debian-installer to
grep through and see if i could easily find the 'scanning'
code
606 [08:12:01] <saul> i'm curious to see how that
(doesn't) work :)
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608 [08:12:43] <saul> honestly i would just have check in
/mnt/drivers and instruct (or offer) the user to create that
directory and mount an inserted usb drive there
609 [08:13:27] <saul> nvz: nah i have good internets
610 [08:13:38] <saul> nvz: rufusing that image presently :)
thanks
611 [08:13:51] <nvz> saul: yeah, don't do that
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613 [08:14:31] <nvz> dpkg, rufus?
614 [08:14:31] <dpkg> rufus is a tool that can be used to make
bootable USB devices under Windows. It is not recommended for use
with Debian CD/DVD images, as it mangles the installer in cruel and
unusual ways, resulting in hard to debug problems. Ask me about
<hybrid images>, <usb install>, <win32diskimager>.
615 [08:14:43] <nvz> dpkg win32diskimager
616 [08:14:44] <dpkg> win32diskimager is much more reliable than
<unetbootin> for copying ISO images to USB sticks and you can
download it from
replaced-url
617 [08:15:17] <Haohmaru> uh, i use rufus on windows
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619 [08:15:28] <nvz> I'm sorry to hear that
620 [08:15:37] <Haohmaru> with debian images (or most things) i
set it to "dd" mode
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623 [08:16:33] <Haohmaru> it's not the default mode of
course, huh
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629 [08:17:45] <saul> seems to be working with the defaults so
far
630 [08:18:05] <saul> win32diskimager is great too
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639 [08:21:24] <nvz> yes well see, the thing is.. folk like me
who have been using and supporting debian for 15-20 years
haven't touched windows in that long.. and we know the install
guide says use win32diskimager and the bot says DO NOT USE RUFUS so
we're not going to do anything but regurgitate that information
when you mention it or issues with the installer
640 [08:21:42] <Haohmaru> after i ran rsync, i figured i
could've skipped a pile of dumb folders like ~/.cache/ >:(
641 [08:22:11] <nvz> Haohmaru: how much data was it in /home?
642 [08:22:19] <Haohmaru> i don't know
643 [08:22:27] <annadane> you "can" use rufus in
certain instances, depending. unetbootin is totally wrong and
shouldn't ever be used
644 [08:23:23] <Haohmaru> i mean, i've used rufus to write
SD card images for olinuxino.. it has worked fine (in dd mode of
course)
645 [08:23:35] <Haohmaru> i'm using an old version tho
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648 [08:26:57] <nvz> I personally would typically rather wander
off into the wood and bang my head off tree trunks than use windows
for anything
649 [08:27:38] <Haohmaru> i hate crapdows too
650 [08:28:24] <Haohmaru> using xp at home, win7 here, it gets
progressively worse in each version
651 [08:28:32] <Haohmaru> win10 is absolutely &*@*!(#
652 [08:28:48] <Haohmaru> my eyes vomit when they see it
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654 [08:29:47] <nvz> I'm broke and I've turned down two
jobs in the last two months due to the fact it would involve using
windows
655 [08:30:18] <Haohmaru> crapdows10?
656 [08:31:04] <Haohmaru> altho, even 7 and the older ones are
horrendous if you're not allowed to adjust them
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659 [08:31:14] <Haohmaru> so.. yeah
660 [08:31:31] <Haohmaru> win98SE was gud
661 [08:32:02] <nvz> idk one I guess was a 7->10 migration
project for a healthcare company of some kind.. and another was
vaguely stupid sounding crap about installing win7 on a server..
662 [08:32:19] <Haohmaru> o_O
663 [08:32:20] <nvz> I'd rather get a colonoscopy
664 [08:33:49] * Haohmaru listens to how that last sentence resonates
in the channel
665 [08:34:06] <nvz> or as Rob Reiner said on the Story Of US,
I'd rather watch my ass on tv..
666 [08:35:34] <nvz> which none of his friends thought was funny,
but I found it amusing
667 [08:36:17] <Vjetar> hi annadane
668 [08:37:17] <Haohmaru> is there something that uses rsync but
lets you "see things better" while it's progressing,
and let you skip certain files or directories "on the go"
?
669 [08:37:32] <Haohmaru> i can almost predict the answer to
this..
670 [08:37:44] <nvz> heh
671 [08:37:46] <saul> nvz: fail!
672 [08:37:54] <saul> this damn 'firmware' iso is
asking for the same files :D
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676 [08:38:54] <nvz> saul: yes well, you can have your money back
if you like.. but really you never said what the error was
specifically
677 [08:39:14] <saul> :)
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680 [08:39:43] <saul> nvz: i did paste it in backscoll, it was a
code -2 (not sure what process returned that)
681 [08:39:52] * nvz sings "I think you better turn your ticket
in, get your money back at the door.. "
682 [08:39:56] <Haohmaru> error 42: "it dun wurk"
683 [08:40:00] <saul> :D
684 [08:40:06] <nvz> that part means nothing to me
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686 [08:40:12] <saul> nvz: same here
687 [08:40:22] <nvz> either the pciid of the nic or the name of
the firmware file would be relevant
688 [08:40:36] <saul> yeah that's 8086:24fd
689 [08:40:41] <nvz> and for all I know that idiot rufus didnt
even burn the new image, you're still running the old one
690 [08:40:48] <nvz> ,pciid 8086:24fd
691 [08:40:48] <saul> what's weird is that it doesnt show up
in any of the lists for this chipset
692 [08:40:48] <judd> [8086:24fd] is 'Wireless 8265 /
8275' from 'Intel Corporation' with kernel modules
'iwlwifi', 'snd-hda-intel',
'ata-generic' in stretch. See also
replaced-url
693 [08:40:57] <Vjetar> saul, there can be two different files
with almost same name
694 [08:41:07] <saul> Vjetar: correct
695 [08:41:09] *** Joins: jmarsac (~jmarsac@replaced-ip )
696 [08:41:18] <Vjetar> saul, even same size
697 [08:41:31] <saul> 8625-22 ... 8625-36 (.ucode)
698 [08:41:31] <Vjetar> in byte
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706 [08:42:17] <nvz> modinfo iwlwifi |grep 24fd returns nothing
on my buster box
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708 [08:43:31] *** Quits: ritalinona (~ritalinon@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
709 [08:44:14] <Vjetar> saul, as I told it here, Intel quad was
just an idea in 1995. We looked ad "big boys" talk about
quad-proc. And there were some of us who understand them. They all
went to USA, The Walley. I stayed in Croatia.
710 [08:44:24] <Vjetar> ups*
711 [08:44:27] <Vjetar> 1985.
712 [08:44:28] <saul> it looks like they changed the hardware ids
recently
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714 [08:45:04] <nvz> saul: I'm hungry, tired, not interested
in prolonged support right now.. but I am guessing your card is
bleeding edge and you'd be better off to install without it..
either over ethernet possibly with internet connection sharing if
need be, or without network either the base system or if you get an
image with a DE on it.. use that..
715 [08:45:08] *** Vjetar is now known as _pa
716 [08:45:09] <Haohmaru> there's this one file that takes
forever to copy.. it's some 4GB image of something that i
probably don't need, how do i skip it? it's stuck on 84%
of it since an hour
717 [08:45:13] <saul> nvz: dont sweat it man
718 [08:45:15] <nvz> then you'd try installing the sid
kernel and firmware packages manually
719 [08:45:25] <saul> nvz: i'm clear it's pebcak though
720 [08:45:29] <saul> nvz: suggest food and sleep
721 [08:45:31] <nvz> heh
722 [08:45:33] <saul> i'm about to sleep and try again
723 [08:45:45] *** Joins: embden (~embden@replaced-ip )
724 [08:45:52] <saul> should not undertake this stuff when
already tired
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726 [08:46:44] <_pa> so, even you Apeiron` :-P
727 [08:47:09] <saul> oh man
728 [08:47:09] <_pa> Ape iron č0č
729 [08:47:13] *** Joins: k_sze (~k_sze@replaced-ip )
730 [08:47:14] <_pa> Ape iron l0l
731 [08:47:14] *** Joins: Rhuarc (~Rhuarc-@replaced-ip )
732 [08:47:16] <saul> nvz: it's working
733 [08:47:29] <_pa> see saul ...
734 [08:47:45] <_pa> just come here, talk to people, and it will
work
735 [08:47:46] <saul> nvz: the firmware installer failed to
detect its own firmware, but DID locate the one on the usb stick i
was using earlier
736 [08:47:49] <saul> _pa: haha
737 [08:47:50] *** Quits: rmrfchik (~paul@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
738 [08:48:01] <_pa> ;-)
739 [08:48:03] <saul> it will work in an unexpected way
740 [08:48:11] <_pa> hahaha
741 [08:48:21] <_pa> it's for the best saul
742 [08:50:40] <Haohmaru> alternatively, is it a good idea to
delete such files from the dying hdd so that rsync doesn't have
to copy them?
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744 [08:50:51] <Haohmaru> i suspect "no"
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752 [08:56:14] <jelly-home> Haohmaru: rsync has --exclude
options.
753 [08:56:58] <Haohmaru> so.. do i kill it? (ctrl+c) and add an
--exclude ?
754 [08:57:02] <nvz> jelly-home: I think he was looking for
something more magical that would let him decide to skip things in
real time
755 [08:57:14] <jelly-home> Haohmaru: yes
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759 [08:58:00] <Haohmaru> poor thing, it can't even snap out
of it :/
760 [08:58:17] <humpled> is the disk squeaking yet?
761 [08:58:38] <ratrace> give it time, the kernel has to commit
all those dirty pages it's lying about having already copied.
762 [08:58:45] <Haohmaru> i don't know, it's too noisy
here
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765 [08:59:52] <Haohmaru> --exclude={"/wub/file1",
/wab/file2"} like this?
766 [08:59:53] <jelly-home> if it's a disk going bad, it
might be rying to reread that one block, on a sata disk and sata
controller and driver that might take 10 minutes to notice
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770 [09:00:18] <Haohmaru> yeah it's SATA
771 [09:00:26] <Haohmaru> the new hdd is also SATA
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773 [09:00:41] <Haohmaru> i'm running rsync from a debian
live USB stick
774 [09:00:45] <jelly-home> Haohmaru: man rsync, look for
--exclude, paths are relative to source
775 [09:00:56] <Haohmaru> ah, okay
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778 [09:01:23] <jelly-home> and there's no json-ry involved
in syntax iirc
779 [09:01:59] <Haohmaru> json-ry?!
780 [09:02:27] <jelly-home> if you're doing rsync -a /foo/
/bar/ and you want to skip /foo/baz/quux.txt, you'd ...
--exclude baz/quux.txt
781 [09:02:38] <jelly-home> (untested)
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785 [09:03:25] <jelly-home> Haohmaru: that {"...",
"..."} syntax you invented looked a bit like json
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788 [09:04:17] <nvz> chhh chhh chhh chhhh haaa haaa haaa haa...
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790 [09:05:07] * nvz puts on a hockey mask and reaches for the largest
knife in the block
791 [09:05:10] <Haohmaru> i didn't invented, saw it on
wikipedia *shrug*
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793 [09:06:01] <Haohmaru> bluh, mah engrish broke
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795 [09:06:19] <han-solo> i have seen grep exclude with
`=foo.{json,c,py}` or something like that i thinl
796 [09:06:25] <nvz> no prob, I'm json vorhees.. I'l
kill your engrish
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801 [09:11:26] <humpled> seems to work
802 [09:11:58] <Haohmaru> got another question too, i didn't
sit all night to stare at it, has it copied everything or does it
skip files if it "can't" manage to read them from the
source?
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813 [09:18:19] <Haohmaru> now "sending incremental file
list" is taking much long :/
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872 [10:09:56] <igneous> With this bug, it looks like the fix
went into unstable but not testing. Is there a reason? The
regression is still there in testing.
replaced-url
873 [10:09:57] <judd> Bug
replaced-url
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886 [10:22:44] <_pa> so kids?
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893 [10:31:11] <humpled> they're the future
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942 [11:07:52] <ksk> Hola. I am wondering if it would be possible
to have two mouse-cursors in Linux/X somehow? (Like, for automated
guy testing maybe?)
943 [11:08:08] <ksk> eh, s/guy/GUI/
944 [11:09:08] <ksk> like having "stack of things displayed
on monitor A, doing clicky things with mouse" - while I have
another monitor where I do things with "my mouse" so to
say - hope you get what I mean..
945 [11:10:21] <bolt_> ksk: look into running two separate x
servers instead
946 [11:10:30] <bolt_> one on each monitor
947 [11:10:46] <ksk> thanks, that sounds reasonable.
948 [11:12:19] <jelly> igneous: packages migrate from unstable to
testing automatically after a number of days (10 or 5, unsure),
unless they're really buggy or dependencies prevent them
949 [11:12:38] <jelly> !why is fuse3 not in testing
950 [11:12:38] <dpkg> fuse3 is not in testing for the reasons
listed in
replaced-url
951 [11:12:39] <igneous> jelly: ah okay I had a feeling that was
the case, I've never actually been sure about it
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954 [11:16:28] <jelly> ,v fuse3
955 [11:16:29] <judd> Package: fuse3 on amd64 -- bullseye:
3.4.1-1; buster: 3.4.1-1; sid: 3.4.1-1
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978 [11:27:34] <kristoferus75> hi ! have installed debian buster
on an hp elitebook 840
979 [11:27:49] <kristoferus75> bit the internal lte modem doesnt
work
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982 [11:28:28] <kristoferus75> und lsusb i see the modem lt4112
Gobo 4G module
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988 [11:29:23] <kristoferus75> but the modem-manager not found a
modem and also in the nwetwork manager i cannot see ist
989 [11:29:34] <kristoferus75> please help
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991 [11:32:50] <gierdo> kristoferus75: what have you tried
already?
992 [11:34:23] *** thnee1 is now known as thnee
993 [11:35:43] <diogenes_> kristoferus75, take a look at this:
replaced-url
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995 [11:36:04] <diogenes_> this:
replaced-url
996 [11:36:25] <diogenes_> and this:
replaced-url
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999 [11:39:43] <ratrace> oh,shi-! sysbench not in buster .... now
what. I needs it.
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1007 [11:44:36] <ksk> ,v sysbench
1008 [11:44:37] <judd> Package: sysbench on amd64 -- jessie:
0.4.12-1.1; stretch: 0.4.12-1.2; sid: 1.0.17+ds-1
1009 [11:44:54] <ksk> !why is sysbench not in buster
1010 [11:44:55] <dpkg> I think you lost me on that one, ksk
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1012 [11:45:05] <ksk> !why is sysbench not in testing
1013 [11:45:06] <dpkg> sysbench is not in testing for the reasons
listed in
replaced-url
1014 [11:45:07] <ratrace> ksk: I know why it isn't, mariadb
dep
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1016 [11:45:55] <ratrace> i'll consider between installing
from sid, or debootstrapping sid, it's a test environment
anyway
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1019 [11:46:41] <ksk> what is sysbench? If it is just for testing,
I would give sid a try maybe - not sure how stable it is though
right now
1020 [11:47:06] <ratrace> it's a system benchmarking tool
(disks, cpu, databases)
1021 [11:47:21] <ksk> has been some time since buster release, so
the craziest bugs should have been fixed already ;)
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1023 [11:48:00] <ksk> ah, okay. you then might want to migrate to
"cool, new performance foo" - whatever that would be these
dayas.
1024 [11:48:05] <ksk> perf, maybe?
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1026 [11:48:34] <ratrace> ksk: actually I wanted it only for
postrges.... forgot postgres comes with its own pgbench
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1028 [11:48:47] <ratrace> need to compare a few integrity checking
scenarios and how the db acts with them
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1041 [11:54:19] <mystic> whats going on in here
1042 [11:55:00] <ksk> mystic: debian related talk, mostly.
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1046 [11:55:42] <mystic> i dont understand it
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1051 [11:59:50] <Haohmaru> when rsync finishes, does that mean
there weren't any significant errors?
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1055 [12:01:25] <Haohmaru> it says "sent 2,051,465,624 bytes
received 900,833 bytes" "total size is
43,160,963,148"
1056 [12:01:51] <Habbie> Haohmaru, it does not mean that, no
1057 [12:02:00] <ratrace> Haohmaru: yeah, it'd complain that
"some files weren't" transfered or something
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1059 [12:02:15] <Haohmaru> so does the above look okay-ish?
1060 [12:02:22] <Habbie> what ratrace said
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1062 [12:02:28] <Habbie> rsync should draw your attention to that
near the stats at the end
1063 [12:02:35] <ratrace> yeah
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1065 [12:02:53] <ksk> Haohmaru: it does look okay-ish. It has been
a well known practice over here to run the command a second time -
and check that nothing then appeared as transfered
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1068 [12:03:19] <Haohmaru> perhaps, if i re-run the rsync command,
i guess it should just check things and if everything was already
copied - it wouldn't copy anything additionally, right?
1069 [12:03:28] <Haohmaru> ah
1070 [12:03:34] <ratrace> Haohmaru: in principle, yes
1071 [12:03:35] <ksk> wich kind of should not be needed, but
huumans tend to make errors, so you can check the "source"
and "destination" parts etc before entering the command a
second time ;)
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1089 [12:18:05] <Haohmaru> okay, it ran a 2nd time, it didn't
copy anything
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1091 [12:18:15] <mystic> 3rd time lucky?
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1093 [12:18:28] <Haohmaru> again it printed "sent ...
received .." at the end
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1095 [12:19:15] <kristoferus75> the problem is i have tried a lot
but so that the modem should work but wthout success
1096 [12:19:39] <kristoferus75> with lsusb i see it
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1100 [12:21:40] <tagomago> Weird, I think that since the upgrade
to Buster, the Lightning (calendar) extension of Thunderbird
can't play the calendar default alert sound
1101 [12:23:01] <tagomago> The file is there
(/usr/share/lightning/chrome/calendar/content/calendar/sound.wav)
and it can be played externally, but Thunderbird can't...
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1105 [12:24:00] <Haohmaru> okay, i guess /home has been copied
1106 [12:24:17] <Haohmaru> now, do i copy the whole /etc/ ?
1107 [12:24:31] <Haohmaru> i suspect "no"
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1109 [12:26:53] <joltis> Haohmaru: what are you trying to do?
1110 [12:27:20] <Haohmaru> trying to transplant my debian10 from a
dying hdd onto a new hdd
1111 [12:27:52] <joltis> ah. I usually copy /etc to have as a
reference
1112 [12:27:57] <joltis> but not over the existing
1113 [12:27:58] <Haohmaru> where, the old one was on btrfs
partitions, now i went for ext4, thus i couldn't just
"dd" it
1114 [12:28:09] <joltis> Haohmaru: I use this to copy a vps from a
old to new:
replaced-url
1115 [12:28:21] <joltis> everything but the files that should not
be copied
1116 [12:28:29] <joltis> will give you a pretty complete clone
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1120 [12:32:11] <Haohmaru> so, copying the whole /etc isn't a
gud idea then?
1121 [12:32:35] <Haohmaru> this is still the same machine, only
the hdd and the partition filesystems have changed
1122 [12:32:49] <Night_Elf> Hello. A question regarding
corosync+pacemaker. I have a vanilla two-node configuration. There
is the standard IPaddr2 resource. When I test the setup by putting
the nodes to 'standby', it all works. But when I test by
pulling out the network cable of a node, "crm" command
fails with a message. ERROR: status: crm_mon (rc=107): Connection to
cluster failed: Transport endpoint is not connected
1123 [12:33:03] <Haohmaru> and also, the old debian10 was upgraded
from 9, the new one i installed yesterday from netinst.iso
1124 [12:33:26] <Night_Elf> If I restart the pacemaker service, it
becomes operational again. Is this normal ?
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1128 [12:35:47] <Night_Elf> Haohmaru: I would think it will be
fine, but only you need to check about what is in /etc/fstab when it
comes to mounting partitions. If you have repartitioned, those
entries there might not be the same.
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1135 [12:40:54] <uio> tagomago, I just tested it, I got the audio
(flute noise) and a visual pop-up... I'm on Buster XFCE
upgraded from Stretch...
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1137 [12:42:52] <uio> tagomago, Lightning plays that sound you
gave the path for on my machine.
1138 [12:46:47] <tagomago> uio, same as me except that I'm on
MATE
1139 [12:48:03] <uio> tagomago, It worked for you before the
upgrade?
1140 [12:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1536
1141 [12:49:03] <tagomago> uio: Yes, it's been working
forever until (I think) the Buster upgrade... Maybe some permission
issue?
1142 [12:49:30] <uio> tagomago, Could you try with a different DE
to try to isolate the issue?
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1169 [12:55:21] <no_gravity> Is there High DPI scaling support in
Linux these days? I would like to scale up my Mate desktop
environment. Any ideas how to go about that?
1170 [12:55:28] <tagomago> uio: not an option for now, will keep
searching and wait... Now I realised that Lightning can't play
personalized (wav) sounds either, it just won't play any sound
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1172 [12:55:55] <tarzeau> no_gravity: nothing to do with linux,
but X/wayland and/or mate
1173 [12:56:00] <tenknarf> hey guys, does somebody here have
experience with irqbalance on an cortex platform
1174 [12:56:26] <no_gravity> tarzeau: I have tried those
specialized channels occasionally and have yet to see a single reply
over there.
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1178 [12:59:47] <tarzeau> no_gravity: i wasn't trying to move
you to another channel, just to say it's not linux problem but
x or mate
1179 [13:00:25] <no_gravity> tarzeau: So this channel is only
about the linux kernel?
1180 [13:01:07] <tarzeau> no it's about the debian binary
distribution and its users, you're perfectly right in here
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1187 [13:02:47] <uio> tagomago, Hmmmm. Interesting. I mean, if you
don't want to download another DE, you could just test in a WM
to see if the issue is coming from MATE or not.
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1190 [13:04:12] <Night_Elf> no_gravity: I do know there's
this setting about desktop scaling for high dpi displays in
Cinammon. Don't know if that applies for Mate.
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1193 [13:05:35] <no_gravity> Night_Elf: There is one in
mate-tweak. I'm not sure what it does though. It seems to have
no effect.
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1199 [13:07:00] <no_gravity> Oh holy fuck! It *does* something. It
blows everything up to 200%!
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1201 [13:07:23] <no_gravity> I need something like 120%...
1202 [13:08:00] <Night_Elf> well yes, the one I have seen in
cinammon does the same, it magnifies everything x2
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1204 [13:09:54] <tagomago> uio: tried uninstalling and manually
installing Lightning (this solved a previous issue) to no avail.
Maybe I'll try your suggestion on a VM whenever I have time
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1247 [13:31:20] <Haohmaru> Night_Elf wouldn't that mess up
stuff like apt?
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1251 [13:33:08] <Night_Elf> Haohmaru: You said it is the same
system, the only difference was the disks were repartitioned. If
that is the case, the contents of the filesystems are the same, only
the info regarding the partitions themselves on how the system
recognises and uses them changes.
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1254 [13:34:03] <Haohmaru> yeah, and.. the old debian was debian9
upgraded to 10, while on the new hdd i installed debian10 directly
1255 [13:34:28] <ws2k3> i use debian as a desktop. is it possible
to change ctrl+c to super+c ?
1256 [13:34:39] <Haohmaru> but there packages installed are
different..
1257 [13:34:58] <Haohmaru> (got more packages on the old one)
1258 [13:35:35] <Haohmaru> i mainly wanna copy the settings,
i'm okay if i have to re-install the packages manually
1259 [13:35:41] <Night_Elf> Probably /etc/apt/sources.list files
are different too.
1260 [13:35:42] <tarzeau> ws2k3: switch the buttons on your
keyboard?
1261 [13:35:50] <Haohmaru> definately
1262 [13:36:04] <Haohmaru> the old one has commented-out lines
from deb9
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1268 [13:39:17] <Night_Elf> Haohmaru: What /etc/ contains in
debian9 and 10 depends on what you have installed. In theory, it
won't harm to replace the new /etc/ with the old /etc/ in order
to get the same configs as before. But then, keep the new /etc/
around my moving it to smth like /etc.new/ in case you will need it
again.
1269 [13:40:03] <Night_Elf> Of course, pay attention to what is
relevant and needs to be changed, like /etc/fstab and /etc/apt/
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1273 [13:41:11] <Night_Elf> For what you need, if you issued
"dpkg --get-selections" on the old one, the list of the
installed packages it will generate will help you a lot to install
the same things on the new system.
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1278 [13:43:42] <Haohmaru> that's not such a big problem
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1280 [13:44:41] <Haohmaru> okay, bluh..
1281 [13:45:10] <mystic> any gays in ?
1282 [13:45:42] <darxmurf> ,v vim
1283 [13:45:44] <judd> Package: vim on amd64 -- jessie:
2:7.4.488-7+deb8u3; jessie-security: 2:7.4.488-7+deb8u4; stretch:
2:8.0.0197-4+deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 2:8.0.0197-4+deb9u3;
stretch-security: 2:8.0.0197-4+deb9u3; bullseye: 2:8.1.0875-5;
buster: 2:8.1.0875-5; sid: 2:8.1.0875-5
1284 [13:45:48] <Haohmaru> rename /etc/ to /etc.new/, rsync copy
the old /etc/ to /etc/, copy certain things from /etc.new/ to /etc/
(fstab, apt maybe..?)
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1286 [13:47:32] <Haohmaru> besides /home/ and /etc/, is there
anything else that might contain settings of any kind or other kinds
of customizations i might have done?
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1289 [13:47:51] <Night_Elf> Yes. Check always if things work as
needed, and get anything that causes trouble from the old one.
1290 [13:48:04] <Haohmaru> :/
1291 [13:48:19] <Haohmaru> i don't wanna keep this dying hdd
around for that long
1292 [13:48:34] <mystic> put it out of its misery
1293 [13:48:57] <Haohmaru> <hammer_time.gif>
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1297 [13:49:59] <Night_Elf> At the new system you will have the
/etc/ of the old one. It doesn't hurt to have content in it
which is not needed/used.
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1302 [13:52:34] <Night_Elf> You can even have a copy of the old
/etc/ as /etc.old/ to, which will be your refrence. So you will
always have /etc/ (the old but updated) and the /etc.new/ (as it is
from the fresh install) and the /etc.old/ (as it was exactly at the
old system)
1303 [13:52:46] <humpled> really, if dpkg updated your configs, it
would ask you and show you diffs
1304 [13:53:24] <humpled> i zip up my /etc for backup, but i
don't copy it right over, just use it for reference
1305 [13:53:48] <humpled> you can probably tell by timestamps
which things you've changed
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1307 [13:54:29] <karlpinc> Haohmaru: /var/spool/cron can have
stuff
1308 [13:54:58] <Haohmaru> i haven't used "cron"
manually
1309 [13:55:13] <karlpinc> Haohmaru: Then not.
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1312 [13:55:54] <karlpinc> Haohmaru: Unless you've used
'at'.
1313 [13:56:16] <Haohmaru> no idea what that is
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1315 [13:56:34] <karlpinc> Haohmaru: And other stuff could be in
/var/, like /var/replaced-url
1316 [13:56:52] <Haohmaru> ahumz, luckily not
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1318 [13:57:25] <kiwi_29> hi, I who do I fill sources.list after a
non-internet CD-Rom install?
1319 [13:57:37] <karlpinc> Haohmaru: I forget where cups puts its
printer configs.
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1321 [13:57:49] <dvs> !tell kiwi_29 about buster sources.list
1322 [13:57:50] <Haohmaru> i've not used printers
1323 [13:58:04] <karlpinc> !buster sources.list
1324 [13:58:04] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for
"Buster" has the lines: "deb
replaced-url
1325 [13:58:15] <karlpinc> dvs: (sorry)
1326 [13:58:21] <dvs> grrr! ;-)
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1330 [14:00:39] <kiwi_29> karlpinc: Does this first mean I should
manually enter the text, rather than to recall the installation
routine or such?
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1332 [14:02:36] <Haohmaru> there's gotta be some nifty trick
to "wget" an example source.list from debian.org or
somewhere
1333 [14:03:22] <Haohmaru> i always seem to type all the lines
manually :~(
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1335 [14:03:55] <Haohmaru> that's an indication of how much i
don't like windows
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1338 [14:05:16] <humpled> mpd stuff is in /var/lib/mpd if you have
that
1339 [14:05:40] <Haohmaru> haven't heard about it
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1341 [14:06:24] <Haohmaru> should i've been copying stuff
with rsync with --ignore-times and --numeric-ids or not?
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1345 [14:07:28] <kiwi_29> if this was my installation
debian-testing-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso, I wonder that there was no
difference to the stable release lines, sorry I am somewhat ubuntu
minded, am I?
1346 [14:07:40] <Night_Elf> I found a workaround for the pacemaker
service stopping when disconnecting the cable. Apparently,
networkManager removes the ip address and brings the interface down
when the cable disconnects. So I disabled networkmanager completely,
and placed all the network configurations in /etc/network/interfaces
1347 [14:07:50] <Night_Elf> This way the interface remains active
and also the ip address is retained.
1348 [14:07:51] <kiwi_29> Am I right?
1349 [14:07:54] <jelly> kiwi_29: "testing" is completely
different from current Debian 10 stable release
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1356 [14:11:30] <kiwi_29> And now? Where do get them now better.
The testing source.list entries?
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1362 [14:14:57] <humpled> but in those sources.list lines which
dpkg showed, only the word buster would have changed
1363 [14:14:58] <Night_Elf> kiwi_29: Usually, the difference in
the lines of the /etc/apt/sources.list are in the name of the os
release. Those can be "testing" or "jessie" or
"stretch". The rest should be the same.
1364 [14:15:28] <Night_Elf> Of course "buster" as well.
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1411 [14:48:37] <Haohmaru> is there some command to cause a smol
innocent beep?
1412 [14:49:01] <Haohmaru> preferably with the pc speaker
1413 [14:49:57] <Haohmaru> in C you could printf some fancy escape
char that causes an alarm in some terminals
1414 [14:50:31] <ratrace> yes, it's called.... wait for
it...... beep!
1415 [14:50:52] <Haohmaru> then i guess it doesn't come
installed normally
1416 [14:50:53] <ratrace> just watch out for "Holey
Beep!" CVEs :)
1417 [14:50:58] <han-solo> printf '\077' ?
1418 [14:51:14] <Haohmaru> i don't speak octal
1419 [14:51:26] <ratrace> also modprobe pcspkr
1420 [14:51:33] <han-solo> it's BEL character
1421 [14:51:47] <Haohmaru> yeah something like that.. was it 0x0A
or something
1422 [14:51:53] <Haohmaru> or 0x0B maybe
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1425 [14:53:21] <Haohmaru> printf doesn't seem to do it
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1455 [15:12:00] <ayekat> Haohmaru: '\a' - see ascii(7)
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1457 [15:12:21] <Haohmaru> yeah
1458 [15:12:34] <Haohmaru> and it doesn't seem to work with
printf
1459 [15:12:58] <ayekat> printf '\a'
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1461 [15:13:03] <ayekat> should definitely work
1462 [15:13:24] <Haohmaru> do i have to be root?
1463 [15:13:26] <ayekat> Haohmaru: then again, if you expect it to
give an audible beep sound, you might need to configure your
terminal emulater as such
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1465 [15:13:40] <ayekat> and also make sure your audio configured
appropriately
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1467 [15:13:49] <ayekat> Haohmaru: no, not for the bell character
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1471 [15:14:00] <Haohmaru> i do hear beeps when i keep pressing
backspace while there's nothing left to erase
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1473 [15:14:33] <Haohmaru> ..pc speaker beeps
1474 [15:14:49] <Haohmaru> also when grub loads
1475 [15:15:08] <ayekat> hmm... if you get a beep from a backspace
in the shell then '\a' should certainly also give an
audible beep IMHO
1476 [15:15:20] <Haohmaru> i thought so too
1477 [15:15:20] * ayekat is clueless
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1481 [15:15:45] <Haohmaru> ah wait, i don't actually get a
beep on backspace right now o_O
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1483 [15:15:58] <Haohmaru> i'm running from a live iso
1484 [15:16:13] <Haohmaru> i'm 99.99% sure this machine beeps
on backspace normally
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1486 [15:16:31] <Haohmaru> maybe the live iso can't beep
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1488 [15:17:04] <ayekat> or it may have simply been configured
differently
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1503 [15:33:10] <bahia2> kurwa
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1508 [15:36:16] <jelly> bahia2: this is a tech support channel
with English language. Do you have a Debian tech support question?
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1533 [15:47:40] <kiwi_6> I just installed debian sid, but the
hibernating is failing: "s2ram_do: Device or resource
busy" came from s2ram from uswsusp package. How do you
configure hibernation, do you?
1534 [15:47:58] *** Quits: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1535 [15:48:20] <kiwi_6> Thanks for an answer.
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1549 [15:55:40] <jelly> dpkg, debian-next
1550 [15:55:40] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for
testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not*
on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is
invite only)." it means you did not read it's on
irc.oftc.net.
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1553 [15:56:10] <jelly> kiwi_6: ask in the right channel on OFTC
network, after checking existing bug reports.
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1564 [16:00:20] <kiwi_6> I am wrestling with the problem since
year, on ubuntu was I, so I was just interested how could others
mainly do the hibernation, on their computer. Because if not this
detail, the whole device gets useless for daily use, that drastic,
is not it?
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1570 [16:03:53] <nova99> Hi, has anyone here used debian based
rolling release distro or even debian testing?
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1572 [16:05:23] <annadane> neither testing or unstable are truly
rolling release but yes, i have
1573 [16:05:32] <annadane> i prefer something that always works
like stable
1574 [16:06:08] <annadane> of course people have used them for
years without too many issues but they tend to know what
they're doing already and sudden changes can be jarring to deal
with
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1578 [16:07:55] <nkuttler> nova99: just ask your real question
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1582 [16:08:44] <nova99> I'm just looking for recommendations
good sir
1583 [16:09:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1560
1584 [16:09:10] <nova99> I've used debian based OS's
till now and I wanted to try a rolling release distro now.
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1586 [16:09:37] <greycat> So go try one. We won't stop you.
1587 [16:09:52] * Haohmaru unties nova99
1588 [16:09:53] <annadane> i suppose there's siduction if you
wanted something a little more curated. or vanilla testing/unstable,
up to you, just keep backups yada yada
1589 [16:10:07] <nova99> I meant a debian-based rolling release
distro, but it's ok
1590 [16:10:27] <ayekat> if it's just for "trying
out", testing can be rolling release enough for a start
1591 [16:10:46] <annadane> yeah, testing's probably a good
bet
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1593 [16:11:10] <annadane> you'll eventually run into the
freeze when testing doesn't change for like 5 months, but...
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1595 [16:12:27] <nova99> greycat:Go fuck yourself, I won't
stop you
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1598 [16:12:46] <annadane> well okay then.
1599 [16:12:47] *** Quits: Makaveli7 (~Makaveli7@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.5)
1600 [16:14:32] <greycat> "I have an idea. I'll go into
the stable Debian tech support channel where nobody even uses
testing or unstable, and I'll ask vague questions about other
distros, and then I'll insult everyone!"
1601 [16:14:33] <han-solo> whoa, hey, we have kids here
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1603 [16:15:32] <Haohmaru> nova99 needs to listen to moar tropical
house
1604 [16:15:47] <Haohmaru> i'm a certified psychiatrist
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1615 [16:22:08] <Haohmaru> should i be using --ignore-times and
--numeric-ids with rsync? cuz when i repeat the command it seems to
copy everything again and again :/
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1626 [16:25:30] <marsupapu> Any idea why Evolution fails to start
and reports segmentation fault?
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1628 [16:26:32] <at0m> marsupapu: start it from a terminal and
hopefully you'll see more verbose log output.
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1642 [16:30:08] <marsupapu>
replaced-url
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1644 [16:30:31] <marsupapu> Not too informative for me
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1648 [16:32:27] <ihristov> Are you trying running it as root or an
ordinary user?
1649 [16:32:44] <marsupapu> Ordinary user
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1653 [16:34:01] <marsupapu> I've been using it for years with
this installation. Upgraded to Buster few days ago. It worked couple
of days after upgrade but now refuses to start
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1659 [16:40:34] <ihristov> Do you have another GUI environment
different from Gnome?
1660 [16:41:05] <marsupapu> Yes, I've been running Mate all
the time
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1663 [16:41:35] <ihristov> Can you try changing the session and
then start it again
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1666 [16:43:05] <marsupapu> I've tried to launch it from
Openbox with similiar results
1667 [16:43:20] <ihristov> Roger
1668 [16:43:29] <ihristov> I'm running out of ideas
1669 [16:43:48] <ihristov> I suppose you check the logs already
and the error is the same like the aforementioned
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1671 [16:44:31] <humpled> is it running already?
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1680 [16:46:14] <marsupapu> It manages to start some processes.
Evolution-source-registry, evolution-calendar-factory and
evolution-addressbook-factory. Killing those doesn't make any
differenc
1681 [16:46:25] *** Joins: dvs (~gilford@replaced-ip )
1682 [16:48:44] <humpled> so do you normally start it by hand?
isn't it a user service or autostarted by the desktop? how do
you know when you've got mail?
1683 [16:49:39] <marsupapu> I normally start it by hand. Mate
doesn't start it automagically, and I use it most for the
calendar.
1684 [16:49:55] <humpled> ah
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1687 [16:51:41] <humpled> searching 'man evolution' does
not return man pages for evolution :|
1688 [16:51:50] *** Joins: HarveyPwca (~HarveyPwc@replaced-ip )
1689 [16:52:00] <humpled> maybe there's a verbose flag
1690 [16:52:07] <humpled> ,v evolution
1691 [16:52:08] <judd> Package: evolution on amd64 -- jessie:
3.12.9~git20141130.241663-1+b1; jessie-security:
3.12.9~git20141130.241663-1+deb8u1; stretch: 3.22.6-1+deb9u1;
stretch-proposed-updates: 3.22.6-1+deb9u2; stretch-security:
3.22.6-1+deb9u2; bullseye: 3.30.5-1.1; buster: 3.30.5-1.1; sid:
3.30.5-1.1; experimental: 3.33.4-1
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1698 [16:55:56] <humpled> man page suggests consulting --help for
options or starting with --debug=<file>
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1703 [16:58:38] <section1> marsupapu, too you can try to start it
with a clean enviroment of a new/test user..
1704 [16:59:06] <marsupapu> I'll try
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1708 [17:00:58] <humpled> you don't have evolution-ews for
exchange/office365/outlook do you
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1710 [17:01:24] <marsupapu> Yep, it fails with same error with
other user as well
1711 [17:01:36] <section1> oh :(
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1713 [17:02:34] <section1> humpled, ask you "you don't
have evolution-ews for exchange/office365/outlook do you"
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1715 [17:03:05] <section1> and in dmesg or kernel log do you see a
segfault line?
1716 [17:03:08] <humpled> i guess they don't have it, and ask
for confirmation, yes
1717 [17:03:16] <humpled> it's been removed
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1719 [17:04:45] <marsupapu> Could it be some dependency issues
with the upgrade
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1724 [17:07:22] <humpled> what like re. gtk3 and mate maybe
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1731 [17:13:00] <noudle> okay i may be super stupid but how can i
get apt to install all dependencies along with the package that i
want it to install?
1732 [17:13:30] <dvs> hmmmmmm... install that package?
1733 [17:13:46] <Habbie> noudle, that's what apt does
1734 [17:13:47] *** Quits: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1735 [17:13:59] <noudle> right now 'apt install x' just
gives me 'the following packages have unmet dependencies'
and then a list on which pacjages they depend
1736 [17:14:10] <noudle> so i would need to add them all manually
to my install command
1737 [17:14:17] <Habbie> ah, no
1738 [17:14:25] <Habbie> that means something is wrong
1739 [17:14:28] <dvs> noudle, changes are that your sources.list
is wrong
1740 [17:14:29] <Habbie> want to pastebin what actually happens?
1741 [17:14:42] *** Joins: humbot (~i@replaced-ip )
1742 [17:14:42] <dvs> *chances
1743 [17:14:54] <noudle> Habbie: there is not much happening
beside what i wrote
1744 [17:15:05] <noudle> dvs: how do you mean?
1745 [17:15:24] <greycat> !bat
1746 [17:15:25] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with
apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information:
1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the
command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1
pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem,
and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use
replaced-url
1747 [17:15:55] *** Joins: somazero_ (~somazero@replaced-ip )
1748 [17:16:22] <Habbie> noudle, yes, but seeing the package names
might help us figure out what's happening; but first, do what
dpkg just said
1749 [17:16:35] <noudle> give me a minute
1750 [17:16:39] <Habbie> sure
1751 [17:16:47] <Habbie> we'll be here, or somebody else will
be here, etc.
1752 [17:16:55] <noudle> ok :)
1753 [17:17:01] <humbot> seems similar to this marsupapu
replaced-url
1754 [17:17:32] <Akuw> i am using this command --> ssh
root@10.3.96.5 df -h | awk '/\/dev\/sda/ { print
"["$6"]--> "$5 }'
1755 [17:17:44] *** Quits: somazero_ (~somazero@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
1756 [17:17:48] <Akuw> but when i do --> ssh root@10.3.96.5
hostname; df -h | awk '/\/dev\/sda/ { print
"["$6"]--> "$5 }'
1757 [17:18:10] *** Joins: DebNerd99 (~root@replaced-ip )
1758 [17:18:11] <Akuw> i got only half output of awk command
1759 [17:18:20] <greycat> you're only running hostname in
ssh. you're running df
1760 [17:18:22] <Habbie> Akuw, the df -h runs on your local system
1761 [17:18:23] <greycat> and awk locally.
1762 [17:18:37] <Akuw> no
1763 [17:18:40] <greycat> yes
1764 [17:18:42] <Habbie> yes
1765 [17:18:45] <jelly> maybe?
1766 [17:18:50] <Akuw> humm
1767 [17:18:53] <Akuw> let me see
1768 [17:18:53] *** Quits: benoliver999 (~benoliver@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ##replaced-url
1769 [17:18:53] <greycat> sí
1770 [17:19:09] <Habbie> jelly, no :D
1771 [17:19:12] <jelly> ssh ...; <- at this ; the command ends
1772 [17:19:25] *** Quits: somazero (~somazero@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1773 [17:19:42] *** Quits: dvs (~gilford@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1774 [17:19:57] *** Quits: mortderire (~mortderir@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1775 [17:19:57] <greycat> The normal way to force a command to be
run by ssh is to enclose it in quotes. But you're ALREADY using
two layers of quotes. You are officially in Quoting Hell. Your best
bet is to stick the command in a (quoted) here-document and feed
that to ssh bash or ssh sh.
1776 [17:20:04] *** Joins: Makerblaker (~Makerblak@replaced-ip )
1777 [17:20:08] <Akuw> yesd
1778 [17:20:11] *** Joins: Tom01 (~tom@replaced-ip )
1779 [17:20:23] <jelly> ssh root@10.3.96.5 'hostname; df
-h' | awk ...
1780 [17:20:41] <greycat> yeah, that could work. let the awk run
locally.
1781 [17:20:55] <greycat> you'd need to make sure awk lets
the first line (hostname) pass through unmolested.
1782 [17:21:24] <jelly> if hostname command returns more than, or
less than a single line, you probably have other problems
1783 [17:21:26] *** Quits: thunderrd (~thunderrd@replaced-ip ) (Quit: If it wasn't written down it didn't happen...)
1784 [17:22:38] <Habbie> greycat, it doesn't :)
1785 [17:22:57] <greycat> who doesn't what?
1786 [17:23:06] <jelly> yes
1787 [17:23:08] <Habbie> awk drops the hostname
1788 [17:23:16] <greycat> He would need to CHANGE his awk command.
1789 [17:23:18] <Habbie> yes
1790 [17:23:22] *** Quits: vizius00 (vizius00@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1791 [17:23:23] <Habbie> sorry, we're agreeing
1792 [17:23:30] *** Joins: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip )
1793 [17:23:47] <greycat> ssh user@host bash -s
<<'EOF' is probably the easier way
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1797 [17:24:54] <jelly> at that point you're halfway to
ansible
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1803 [17:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1559
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1814 [17:32:18] <noudle> Habbie: i cant do the apt-cache policy
step for each packet as that are like 100 packages
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1817 [17:33:04] <noudle> Habbie: i try to follow this and it fails
on the 'apt install proxmox-ve' step:
replaced-url
1818 [17:33:15] <greycat> noudle: pick one or two that you
especially care about
1819 [17:33:33] <greycat> I'm getting serious frankendebian
vibes.
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1822 [17:34:55] *** Quits: marsupapu (~marsupapu@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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1826 [17:35:56] <noudle> greycat: so you mean i should do this: 1.
apt install <packet> | 2. get list of packages out of the
"Depends on" error | 3. do 1. on each of those packets |
4. repeat. then i have a huge list of packages and all need to be
installed to install the one first packet. so i would pick every
packet because i need every packet to install the one packet i care
about
1827 [17:36:15] <greycat> for the love of glob just PICK one and
paste the information on the web so we can see it.
1828 [17:36:25] *** Joins: benoliver999 (~benoliver@replaced-ip )
1829 [17:36:27] <Habbie> noudle, just the apt-get error output
would be a very good start
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1831 [17:37:39] <noudle> Habbie:
replaced-url
1832 [17:37:55] <greycat> !proxmox
1833 [17:37:55] <dpkg> Proxmox Virtual Environment (Proxmox VE) is
a GNU/Linux distribution <based on Debian>, providing a
virtualization platform with <LXC> and <KVM>. It is not
supported in #debian. There's an unofficial
proxmox channel on Freenode. For official venues, see
##replaced-url
1834 [17:38:13] <greycat> ,v pve-manager
1835 [17:38:14] <judd> No package named 'pve-manager'
was found in amd64.
1836 [17:38:27] <greycat> you're using non-Debian packages
that depend on other non-Debian packages
1837 [17:38:28] <noudle> oh okay, though it is supported as they
have a wiki page on how to install it on debian
1838 [17:38:47] <greycat> ,v qemu-server
1839 [17:38:48] <judd> No package named 'qemu-server'
was found in amd64.
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1842 [17:39:24] <noudle>
replaced-url
1843 [17:39:36] *** Joins: Gazooo (~Gazooo@replaced-ip )
1844 [17:39:44] <greycat> and... are you on Debian stretch?
1845 [17:39:44] <noudle> you add their source list
1846 [17:40:30] <greycat> (if you had followed the instructions
from dpkg, we would KNOW which release you're on...)
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1849 [17:41:18] <noudle> no im on buster, sorry sorry..
1850 [17:41:32] <greycat> so the instructions for "how to
install on stretch" may not apply to you
1851 [17:41:54] <Habbie> they do have a buster repo
1852 [17:42:05] <Habbie> i suspect just changing that in
sources.list would do the trick
1853 [17:42:11] <Habbie> don't forget to run apt update and
watch for any errors there
1854 [17:42:13] <noudle> ye think so
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1872 [17:51:08] <mmfood> I am still trying to figure out how to
boot a btrfs raid1 system on top of luks if a drive is potentially
missing. Since debian cryptsetup does not use the nofail option in
crypttab I have to wait for initramfs to panic and handle it
manually by removing the crypttab entry in cryptroot/crypttab which
isn
1873 [17:51:57] *** Joins: Gazooo (~Gazooo@replaced-ip )
1874 [17:51:59] <mmfood> isn't a big deal since this
hopefully shouldn't happen too often :) but the next step is to
figure out how to tell systemd to also skip it.
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1878 [17:54:53] <jelly> mmfood: raid is kind of used to ensure
better availability. Refusing to boot a system because an array is
merely degraded seems counterproductive?
1879 [17:55:23] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1880 [17:55:30] <greycat> is raid normally done "on top of
luks", or the other way around?
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1883 [17:55:53] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: Other way.
1884 [17:56:03] <jelly> it honestly should not matter but I have
no idea what's the best practice for btrfs in particular
1885 [17:56:09] <mmfood> greycat: depends on the setup. For btrfs
raid luks has to be the bottom layer
1886 [17:56:13] <jelly> logic dictates!
1887 [17:57:08] <jhutchins_wk> Seems to me that raid should be a
lower level than filesystem.
1888 [17:57:25] <jhutchins_wk> Then again, they call all kinds of
wierd setups "raid" these days.
1889 [17:58:10] <jelly> mmfood: if it were a raid5 or raid6-ish
equivalent the initramfs code would need to be smart enough to know
how many failures of independent luks devices are allowed?
1890 [17:58:33] <mmfood> jhutchins_wk: well, btrfs implements raid
natively. I'm assuming it is beneath the actual fs parts.
1891 [17:58:46] *** Quits: benoliver999 (~benoliver@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1892 [17:58:53] <jelly> jhutchins_wk: btrfs is both raid and
filesystem and volume management. Welcome to the new world.
1893 [17:59:00] <jelly> s/both/all of/
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1896 [17:59:09] <dashs> IF a user is defined by NIS, login fails
to mount the runtime user dir (pam_systemd) with"Invalid
argument" (probably null)
1897 [17:59:29] <mmfood> but ony of the benefits of raid1 is to be
able to boot even if one drive fails, but if the system refuses to
boot because it cannot find and decrypt it that benefit is lost.
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1900 [17:59:33] <greycat> if you're on buster, there are
several things you need to do for NIS to continue working
1901 [18:00:01] <jelly> mmfood: does hacking cryptsetup options
for initramfs to include nofail help?
1902 [18:00:10] <dashs> greycat: listening
1903 [18:00:18] <greycat> this particular symptom sounds like
"The security settings for some components of systemd have been
tightened. People using nis with systemd may encounter bug 878625
which breaks a variety of things related to login sessions"
1904 [18:00:21] <mmfood> jelly: it would make things easier yes
1905 [18:00:27] <greycat> quoted from
replaced-url
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1907 [18:01:06] <mmfood> jelly: but I have kind of elbowed myself
around the initramfs part. The current issue is systemd which also
refuses to continue without decrypting the missing drive
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1909 [18:01:32] <dashs> greycat: thanx
1910 [18:02:27] <jelly> > systemd changed the setup to block
access to the network for several services used during login, and
this break any NSS module fetching information from a network
service, like the NIS one
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1914 [18:03:09] <jelly> oh dear, this will break things for
sssd_ldap and sssd_ad as well, probably
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1916 [18:04:12] <greycat> yes, sounds plausible
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1918 [18:04:50] <jelly> and I don't have good things to say
about glibc nscd
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1923 [18:05:17] <jelly> except "use unscd or literally any
other implementation you find randomly on the internet"
1924 [18:05:57] <SerajewelKS> sssd is slightly different but is
also a pain in the ass
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1926 [18:06:11] *** Joins: zmoo (~zmoo@replaced-ip )
1927 [18:06:16] <SerajewelKS> both it and nscd cache stuff so
agressively that you have to restart both any time you breathe on
the system
1928 [18:06:16] <zmoo> hello debian channel
1929 [18:06:49] <jelly> it also has its own nss modules, but at
least those delegate network access to sssd so things might actually
work
1930 [18:06:56] <SerajewelKS> aggressively*
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1932 [18:07:38] <jelly> SerajewelKS: and versions in EL6-7 work
slightly less buggy than versions in jessie-buster
1933 [18:07:51] *** Joins: rany (~rany@replaced-ip )
1934 [18:07:52] <zmoo> what deb-src line do I need to add inorder
to do; sudo apt-get build-dep build-essential
1935 [18:07:55] <SerajewelKS> i haven't seen a case where
either significantly impacts performance, either. at least on my
systems, they seem to exist solely to cause problems.
1936 [18:08:13] <jelly> well.
1937 [18:08:31] <greycat> zmoo: just copy each deb line and change
deb to deb-src in the copies
1938 [18:08:31] <somiaj> zmoo: just the standard deb-src mirror,
but build-essential is just a metapackage, you don't need much
to build that.
1939 [18:08:32] * jelly offers SerajewelKS access to a system with 200k
local unix accounts
1940 [18:08:36] *** Quits: Hellphyre23 (~Hellphyre@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1941 [18:08:53] <zmoo> okey thanks
1942 [18:08:58] <somiaj> zmoo: I assume you are wanting to build
all the software that build-essential creates? Or any other reason
you want to build that meta package?
1943 [18:09:07] <jelly> cd ~jel<TAB> takes its sweet time!
1944 [18:09:52] <zmoo> I dont need to build I I guess, at this
point I was installing boost libs and.. well one thing led to
another..
1945 [18:10:03] <greycat> Interesting. I didn't know bash
*did* that kind of completion.
1946 [18:10:36] <SerajewelKS> i don't know why you'd
need build-essential's build-deps for anything boost
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1950 [18:10:46] <SerajewelKS> zmoo: this looks like an xy problem
1951 [18:10:55] <SerajewelKS> !xy problem
1952 [18:10:55] <dpkg> Slow down for a bit! Are you sure that you
need to jump through that particular hoop to achieve your goal? We
suspect you don't, so why don't you back up a bit and tell
us about the overall objective... We know that people often falsely
diagnose problems because they are too close to them -- it's
easy to miss that there is a better way to proceed. See
replaced-url
1953 [18:11:05] <jelly> getent passwd 7.70s user 5.18s system 81%
cpu 15.821 total
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1955 [18:11:52] <zmoo> lol, I recall installing it before for a
imbeded tool chain, your totally correct, I will skip it,
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1958 [18:12:16] <greycat> zmoo: I suspect you got confused, and
you really wanted "apt-get install build-essential"
instead.
1959 [18:12:21] <zmoo> this was a case of human error, over
zealous human* in this case
1960 [18:12:23] <zmoo> ty
1961 [18:12:28] <SerajewelKS> zmoo: it's common to *install*
build-essential, but it's very rare to need its build-deps
1962 [18:12:31] <zmoo> take it easy
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1965 [18:16:41] <Akuw> how can i find all cron jobs available for
all user and in all places
1966 [18:16:48] <Akuw> actually i use crontab -l
1967 [18:17:01] <Akuw> but that list only cron jobs for current
user
1968 [18:17:15] <greycat> Akuw: ls /var/spool/cron/crontabs
1969 [18:17:15] <jelly> grep . /var/spool/cron/crontabs/*
1970 [18:18:16] <jelly> and there are also some global, not
per-user config files with jobs
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1974 [18:19:27] <jelly> Akuw: see NOTES section in cron(8) man
page
1975 [18:19:41] <Akuw> man cron
1976 [18:19:44] <Akuw> sorry
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2021 [18:55:42] <RandomSerb> why isn't unetbootin in debian
main?
2022 [18:55:46] <RandomSerb> stretch, that is
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2026 [18:56:32] <jhutchins_wk> !unetbootin
2027 [18:56:32] <dpkg> UNetbootin (Universal Netboot Installer)
allows creation of bootable USB drives for a variety of Linux
distributions.
replaced-url
2028 [18:57:04] <RandomSerb> I actually wanna create bootable
drive with windows on it
2029 [18:57:15] <RandomSerb> I guess what dpkg says isn't
related
2030 [18:57:41] <jhutchins_wk> RandomSerb: You can just use dd to
load a bootable iso image onto a device.
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2032 [18:58:11] <jhutchins_wk> RandomSerb: Or cp, or whatever copy
command you like.
2033 [18:58:27] <greycat> Damn it, tracker.debian.org is throwing
443 errors.
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2036 [18:59:00] <Primer> But with unetbootin you can manage
several images
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2038 [18:59:09] <Primer> whereas dd and cp afford you exactly ONE
2039 [18:59:21] <jelly> RandomSerb: windows installer or a live
image?
2040 [18:59:32] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: Confirm.
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2046 [19:00:05] <jelly> installer for windows 10 can be made with
WoeUSB (successor of WinUSB), also not present in Debian
2047 [19:00:19] <RandomSerb> jelly, latter
2048 [19:00:39] <jhutchins_wk> Primer: We mostly see problems with
it mangling Debian installers from Windows. I suspect user error is
the main problem, but can't prove it.
2049 [19:01:11] <jelly> jhutchins_wk: fragile code in d-i is also
part of the problem
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2051 [19:01:32] <jelly> many other distros' images survive
being unebootind
2052 [19:01:33] <Primer> jhutchins_wk: The main problem IMO is
that there is no one stadard way of defining the image at boot. The
method each distro uses to find it varies.
2053 [19:01:58] <Primer> the image that contains the squashfs for
the rootfs on removable media, that is
2054 [19:02:05] <jelly> but none of that is relevant for the issue
at hand
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2057 [19:02:48] <Primer> The only experience I had with unetbootin
actually working was running it from windows
2058 [19:03:09] <Primer> I mean, using the windows version of it
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2062 [19:04:20] <Primer> And even then, the only distro that
worked out of the box was ubuntu, as it kinda has a standard for
finding the squashfs. Debian live has this too, but it wasn't
as robust as ubuntu's
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2088 [19:22:04] <kreyren> i have cpp source that is using
`#include <jdbc/cppconn/connection.h>` which is missing ->
How do i get this on debian?
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2091 [19:22:46] <Habbie> kreyren, use 'apt-file search'
2092 [19:22:58] <Habbie> kreyren, it returns libmysqlcppconn-dev:
/usr/include/cppconn/connection.h
2093 [19:23:05] <Habbie> oh, jdbc
2094 [19:23:11] <Habbie> i don't find that one with apt-file
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2096 [19:23:20] <kreyren> Habbie, that is recommended by upstream,
trying to symlink
2097 [19:23:28] <Habbie> kreyren, ew
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2103 [19:24:57] <jelly> judd file jdbc/cppconn/connection.h
2104 [19:25:02] <judd> No packages in buster/amd64 were found with
that file.
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2107 [19:25:47] <dashs> GreyCat: attempted install of nscd to
support pam=systemd login -- does not mount user runtime dir, fails
in same way with 'Invalid Argument', works fine with users
in /etc/passwd
2108 [19:26:06] <jelly> kreyren: I'd go with "fix the
source" instead of "pollute /usr/include" but hey
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2110 [19:26:27] <greycat> dashs: I had to reboot. There may be
some other way of getting it to work without rebooting, but I
didn't find it.
2111 [19:26:41] <greycat> e.g. maybe just restarting
systemd-logind
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2113 [19:30:18] <kreyren> fixed the source to point to cppconn
instead of jdbc/cppconn and it works, thanks for help!
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2195 [20:10:53] <useretail> how can i set metric for properly?
2196 [20:11:03] <useretail> *for network interface
2197 [20:11:41] <greycat> are you talking about routing?
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2199 [20:11:52] <useretail> greycat, yes
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2201 [20:12:27] <greycat> there's a metric option in "ip
route"
2202 [20:12:49] <useretail> ok, but i'd like to have this set
by debian itself
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2204 [20:12:59] <tarzeau> i've created hevc movie files, but
can't play them neither with mplayer nor vlc
2205 [20:13:08] <tarzeau> file says it's:
1-01-20190904194451.mp4: ISO Media, MP4 Base Media v1 [IS0
14496-12:2003]
2206 [20:13:23] <greycat> The ip-route(8) man page shows the
option, but it has zero words of description. Just blank empty
space.
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2209 [20:14:38] <greycat> in any case, I suspect the Debian Way
would be to add the appropriate "ip route ... metric ..."
command in a post-up entry in /etc/network/interfaces
2210 [20:15:04] <useretail> i tried to set it in
/etc/network/interfaces: auto wlan1 \n iface wlan1 inet dhcp \n
metric 10
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2213 [20:15:17] <greycat> you invented syntax, so obviously that
fails
2214 [20:15:27] <greycat> post-up ip route ...
2215 [20:15:33] <useretail> yes, replace \n with newlines
2216 [20:15:43] <greycat> there is no "metric" command
in /e/n/i
2217 [20:15:51] <greycat> you can't just make one up
2218 [20:16:01] <useretail> oh
2219 [20:16:22] <greycat> ... oh, actually there is, under the
"static Method" header. Huh.
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2221 [20:16:48] <jelly> it's there in interfaces(5) on
stretch
2222 [20:16:53] <greycat> Well, maybe that works, maybe it does
not. Who knows. It's not like there's any documentation
for "metric" in ip-route(8).
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2226 [20:17:12] <useretail> ok. so above config results that card
is not available at all
2227 [20:17:41] <greycat> Then try it my way.
2228 [20:17:53] <useretail> it appears under ifconfig, but when i
put it up, it doesn
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2230 [20:17:58] <useretail> *doesn't work at all
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2232 [20:18:09] <greycat> route(8) warns that metric is DIFFERENT
in iproute2
2233 [20:18:34] <greycat> and then ip-route(8) which is iproute2
DOES NOT DOCUMENT IT AT ALL AS I KEEP SAYING OVER AND OVER
2234 [20:19:42] <useretail> i have no problem setting post-up, but
are there other ways?
2235 [20:19:48] <greycat> I can't even find a way to get ip
route to print the metric field.
2236 [20:20:01] *** Quits: Itaipu (~itaipu@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2 - ##replaced-url
2237 [20:20:05] <useretail> greycat, sudo route -n
2238 [20:20:12] <greycat> THAT IS NOT ip route
2239 [20:20:41] *** Joins: tempnickerarf (~hmm@replaced-ip )
2240 [20:20:46] <useretail> sudo ip route list
2241 [20:21:06] <greycat> Looks the same to me, with and without
sudo.
2242 [20:21:21] <greycat> Do you actually see metric in yours? I
don't.
2243 [20:21:47] <useretail> yes, at the end of the line: metric
600
2244 [20:22:06] <greycat> Then it seems it only shows the metric
if it's non-default.
2245 [20:22:14] * useretail uses Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)
2246 [20:22:16] *** Quits: MenschZwoNull (~MenschZwo@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2247 [20:22:24] <greycat> wooledg:~$ sudo ip route list
2248 [20:22:24] <greycat> default via 10.76.172.1 dev eno1
2249 [20:22:24] <greycat> 10.76.172.0/23 dev eno1 proto kernel
scope link src 10.76.172.97
2250 [20:22:31] <jelly> perhaps there's a more
computer-friendly output format?
2251 [20:23:04] <greycat> perhaps there's a man page that...
no, not a chance. this is iproute2. no friendly or useful man page.
2252 [20:23:20] *** Quits: Gerowen (~Gerowen@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2253 [20:23:35] <jelly> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2254 [20:23:46] *** Joins: Itaipu (~itaipu@replaced-ip )
2255 [20:23:46] *** Quits: catfuneral (~catfunera@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Когда рак на горе свистнет)
2256 [20:24:57] <useretail> my ethernet has metric 100, but
it's not connected to internet. and when i connect wlan is sets
it's metric 600
2257 [20:25:00] <greycat> the man page doesn't even match the
output of "ip route help"
2258 [20:25:18] <greycat> "ip route help" shows
something called "showdump". Attempting to use showdump
just gets me yelled at. showdump is not in the man page.
2259 [20:25:34] *** Joins: catfuneral (~catfunera@replaced-ip )
2260 [20:25:58] *** Quits: cclein_ (~cclein@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2261 [20:27:40] <useretail> i'm getting Can't restore
route dump from a terminal
2262 [20:27:48] <greycat> Same.
2263 [20:28:27] <greycat> So, the man page is useless, the
"help" output is useless...
2264 [20:28:31] *** Quits: catfuneral (~catfunera@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
2265 [20:29:01] *** Quits: sauvin (sauvin@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2266 [20:29:55] *** Joins: catfuneral (~catfunera@replaced-ip )
2267 [20:30:17] <useretail> ok, it's not what we think,
it's for restoring from a dump
2268 [20:30:40] <useretail>
replaced-url
2269 [20:30:47] <greycat> what the hell is a dump and how do you
get one... oh, I'll look in the man page ... hey, why is it not
in the man page
2270 [20:31:08] * tarzeau ROFL
2271 [20:31:43] *** Quits: tinyhippo (~tinyhippo@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.5)
2272 [20:31:50] <useretail> tarzeau, maybe you have some ideas how
to set metric properly?
2273 [20:32:20] *** Joins: tinyhippo (~tinyhippo@replaced-ip )
2274 [20:32:31] <tarzeau> no i don't. but i know where's
the best chipsong music, and i can tell you with what software you
can play .mod .xm .hvl .kt .ahx .btm .it .s3m :)
2275 [20:32:52] <tarzeau> and i can even tell you the packages
that you can use to make your own tracked music
2276 [20:33:16] *** Joins: format_c (~format_c@replaced-ip )
2277 [20:33:47] <tarzeau> besides, i figured how to setup motion!
i can record hevc movies, which i can't replay. haha!
2278 [20:33:56] *** Quits: enseneo (~madneap@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2279 [20:35:35] <greycat> wooledg:~$ ip route save | ip route
showdump
2280 [20:35:35] <greycat> default via 10.76.172.1 dev eno1
2281 [20:35:35] <greycat> 10.76.172.0/23 dev eno1 proto kernel
scope link src 10.76.172.97
2282 [20:35:41] <greycat> ... well, THAT didn't help much.
2283 [20:36:18] *** Quits: donofrio (~donofrio@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2284 [20:36:33] <useretail> there must be proper way to set the
metric
2285 [20:36:42] <tarzeau> if a gui app creates a window, that
window should be movable independant of the main other window. i
wonder who came up with the idea to let the main window move with
the sub window. braindead! QT5!
2286 [20:36:49] <greycat> I'm still trying to find a way to
get it to fucking PRINT the metric
2287 [20:36:55] *** Quits: shingouz_ (~not@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2288 [20:37:05] *** Joins: Burek (~Burek@replaced-ip )
2289 [20:37:11] <tarzeau> route print doesn't?
2290 [20:37:15] *** Joins: shingouz (~not@replaced-ip )
2291 [20:37:28] <tarzeau> i've been using route print and/or
netstat -nr
2292 [20:37:31] *** Quits: Hellphyre23 (~Hellphyre@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2293 [20:37:42] <greycat> so in other words, the only usable tools
are the deprecated ones
2294 [20:38:04] <tarzeau> how come i'm not suprised
2295 [20:40:19] <greycat> at lines 872-874 it prints "metric
%u " if tb[RTA_PRIORITY] is nonzero, and filter.metricmask is
not -1
2296 [20:40:21] *** Joins: srgg (~srgg@replaced-ip )
2297 [20:41:21] <useretail> maybe you have only one interface?
2298 [20:41:48] <greycat> Yes, correct... maybe I should check
some of the servers.
2299 [20:42:22] <greycat>
replaced-url
2300 [20:42:43] *** Quits: rmrfchik (~paul@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2301 [20:43:03] <useretail> no idea, maybe you have custom kernel
2302 [20:43:09] <greycat> in any case, it's really clear from
line 872 that it only prints the metric if the metric is nonzero
2303 [20:43:09] *** Quits: nexgen2 (~nexgen@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2304 [20:43:18] <greycat> no, it's a standard kernel. line
872. it has to be nonzero.
2305 [20:43:51] <useretail> how kernel sets metrics?
2306 [20:43:54] <greycat>
replaced-url
2307 [20:43:56] <useretail> are there some rules?
2308 [20:44:39] <useretail> yes, 0 = default for ipv4, 1 is for
ipv6
2309 [20:45:50] * useretail runs 4.19.0-5-amd64 #1 SMP Debian
4.19.37-5+deb10u2
2310 [20:46:39] <greycat> The kernel isn't at issue here. You
asked how to set the "metric", whatever that is, in your
interfaces file. I told you how to do it the Debian Way. Everything
else has been investigation and sorrow.
2311 [20:47:06] <useretail> you mean post-up/
2312 [20:47:08] <useretail> ?
2313 [20:47:10] <greycat> Yes.
2314 [20:47:35] *** Joins: Hellphyre23 (~Hellphyre@replaced-ip )
2315 [20:47:44] *** Quits: catfuneral (~catfunera@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Когда рак на горе свистнет)
2316 [20:48:47] *** Quits: serard (~serard@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2317 [20:49:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1551
2318 [20:49:06] *** Joins: catfuneral (~catfunera@replaced-ip )
2319 [20:49:12] *** Quits: Dragon092 (~Dragon@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2320 [20:50:27] *** Quits: pand0ra1337^BNC (~pand0ra13@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2321 [20:52:03] *** Joins: avalchev (~user@replaced-ip )
2322 [20:52:37] *** Quits: gierdo (~Dominik_G@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.4)
2323 [20:53:00] <useretail> ok, i figured out why it was failing
2324 [20:53:12] <useretail>
replaced-url
2325 [20:53:14] *** Joins: GGMethos (methos@replaced-ip )
2326 [20:53:15] <useretail> 5.7.2. The ifmetric package
2327 [20:53:45] *** Quits: Burek (~Burek@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2328 [20:53:46] *** Quits: NullTerminator (~NullTermi@replaced-ip ) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2329 [20:53:51] <useretail> package ifmetric was missing, so
metric option was failing
2330 [20:54:04] *** phd is now known as Vjetar
2331 [20:54:12] *** Quits: leandrovianna (~leandrovi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2332 [20:54:15] <greycat> ,info ifmetric
2333 [20:54:17] <judd> Package ifmetric (net, optional) in
buster/amd64: Set routing metrics for a network interface. Version:
0.3-5; Size: 10.6k; Installed: 37k; Homepage:
replaced-url
2334 [20:54:25] <greycat> what the *hell*
2335 [20:55:02] *** Joins: zalt_ (~lambda443@replaced-ip )
2336 [20:55:08] <useretail> any thought?
2337 [20:55:13] <useretail> *thoughts
2338 [20:55:17] <greycat> So many.
2339 [20:55:23] *** Joins: leandrovianna (~leandrovi@replaced-ip )
2340 [20:55:32] <greycat> Oh wait. This just gets BETTER.
2341 [20:55:36] <greycat> AUTHOR
2342 [20:55:36] <greycat> ifmetric was written by Lennart
Poettering <mzvszrgevp (at) 0pointer (dot) de>.
2343 [20:55:38] <tarzeau> i've read somewhere systemd going
to replace postfix main process
2344 [20:55:42] *** Joins: pand0ra1337^BNC (~pand0ra13@replaced-ip )
2345 [20:55:50] *** Quits: Vjetar (~pav@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Q.)
2346 [20:56:34] *** Joins: c0_nekkattt (~nologin@replaced-ip )
2347 [20:57:00] *** Joins: kupi (uid212005@replaced-ip )
2348 [20:58:01] *** Joins: mcnugit (~textual@replaced-ip )
2349 [20:58:11] * useretail is going to reboot to see if his findings
are really true. will be back asap
2350 [20:58:14] *** Quits: useretail (~a@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2351 [20:58:15] *** Joins: mibo (~mibo@replaced-ip )
2352 [20:58:35] *** Joins: johnjay (~pi@replaced-ip )
2353 [20:58:40] *** Quits: format_c (~format_c@replaced-ip ) (Quit: format_c)
2354 [20:59:52] *** Joins: donofrio (~donofrio@replaced-ip )
2355 [21:00:34] *** Joins: NullTerminator (~NullTermi@replaced-ip )
2356 [21:01:46] *** Quits: elibrokeit (eschwartz@replaced-ip ) (Quit: A random quit message)
2357 [21:02:26] *** Joins: elibrokeit (eschwartz@replaced-ip )
2358 [21:04:16] *** Joins: format_c (~format_c@replaced-ip )
2359 [21:04:25] *** Quits: czart (~czart@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2360 [21:06:00] *** Joins: useretail (~useretail@replaced-ip )
2361 [21:06:20] <useretail> it wasn't true
2362 [21:06:28] <greycat> What wasn't?
2363 [21:06:48] <useretail> that ifmetric is required to set
metric
2364 [21:07:06] <greycat> It wasn't required woulda worked
anyway, or it didn't work?
2365 [21:07:34] *** Quits: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2366 [21:07:41] <useretail> it didn
2367 [21:07:43] <useretail> t
2368 [21:07:50] <useretail> but using ifconfig i discovered
something strange: wlan1:avahi:
flags=4099<UP,BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
2369 [21:07:59] <useretail> avahi was added
2370 [21:08:05] *** Joins: phd (~pav@replaced-ip )
2371 [21:08:10] <useretail> why?
2372 [21:08:48] *** Quits: Arkaniad (~Arkaniad@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2373 [21:08:49] *** Quits: zalt_ (~lambda443@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2374 [21:09:26] *** Joins: zalt_ (~lambda443@replaced-ip )
2375 [21:12:58] *** Quits: edwardly (~edwardly@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2376 [21:13:21] *** Joins: magic_ninja_work (~sparkie1@replaced-ip )
2377 [21:13:58] <karlpinc> useretail: It seems to get installed if
you install anything more than the default. I always uninstall it.
Some people like how it autodiscovers stuff on the LAN.
2378 [21:14:45] <greycat> I have avahi running here (because cups)
but it didn't create an old-style interface alias name.
2379 [21:14:47] *** Quits: Hellphyre23 (~Hellphyre@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2380 [21:15:09] <greycat> So I believe the question was "why
did avahi create an interface alias?"
2381 [21:15:53] <tarzeau> greycat: cat
/usr/share/doc/avahi-daemon/copyright |grep -i lenn
2382 [21:16:27] *** Joins: _jrjsmrtn (~jrjsmrtn@replaced-ip )
2383 [21:16:39] *** Quits: rypervenche (~rypervenc@replaced-ip ) (Quit: brb)
2384 [21:16:49] *** Quits: __jrjsmrtn__ (~jrjsmrtn@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2385 [21:17:19] *** Joins: Hellphyre23 (~Hellphyre@replaced-ip )
2386 [21:19:24] *** Quits: useretail (~useretail@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2387 [21:20:37] *** Joins: edwardly (~edwardly@replaced-ip )
2388 [21:20:38] *** Quits: edwardly (~edwardly@replaced-ip ) (Changing host)
2389 [21:20:38] *** Joins: edwardly (~edwardly@replaced-ip )
2390 [21:22:07] *** Quits: Zvmdyv (~Zvmdyv@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2391 [21:23:57] *** Joins: rypervenche (~rypervenc@replaced-ip )
2392 [21:25:04] *** Quits: polymorphisme1 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2393 [21:25:29] <at0m> tarzeau: or grep $arg $file directly ;)
2394 [21:25:58] <at0m> grep -i lenn
/usr/share/doc/avahi-daemon/copyright
2395 [21:28:21] *** Joins: grobi (~rtng@replaced-ip )
2396 [21:28:38] *** Joins: earend1 (uid170954@replaced-ip )
2397 [21:29:42] *** Joins: zalt__ (~lambda443@replaced-ip )
2398 [21:29:43] *** Quits: dasj19 (~dasj19@replaced-ip ) (Quit: dasj19)
2399 [21:29:46] *** Quits: zalt_ (~lambda443@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2400 [21:30:14] *** Joins: luneff (~yury@replaced-ip )
2401 [21:31:51] *** Joins: useretail (~useretail@replaced-ip )
2402 [21:32:06] <useretail> finally solved it using nmcli
2403 [21:32:22] <earend1> when trying to start the x server i get
this error: no screens found. before you ask for log files, is there
some generic step i may have skipped or configuration tool i need to
run? Xorg -configure spits out a config, wich if used gets me the
same error
2404 [21:32:34] *** Joins: littlebit (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
2405 [21:32:42] <greycat> You solved it by scrapping /e/n/i and
using N-M?
2406 [21:33:05] *** Joins: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip )
2407 [21:33:10] <greycat> for whatever definition of
"solved" we're using now, since you claimed earlier
that post-up ip route worked perfectly well, you just didn't
*like* it
2408 [21:33:33] <useretail> $ nmcli connection
2409 [21:33:37] <useretail> $ nmcli connection modify uuid
61416695-8699-422b-b831-883750c1dc6e ipv4.route-metric 50
2410 [21:33:42] <useretail> $ nmcli connection modify uuid
61416695-8699-422b-b831-883750c1dc6e ipv6.route-metric 50
2411 [21:34:11] <jhutchins_wk> earend1: You shouldn't need to
have an Xorg.cfg file for normal configuration, X scans and auto
configures at startup.
2412 [21:34:29] <jhutchins_wk> No screens found... We've seen
that here recently.
2413 [21:34:30] <earend1> greycat: are you using the new UEFI
secure boot feature
2414 [21:34:46] <jhutchins_wk> earend1: How are you trying to
start it?
2415 [21:34:57] <useretail> greycat, maybe post-up method worked,
but network manager couldn't see it
2416 [21:35:20] <greycat> well of course not... N-M does not
manage interfaces that are managed by /e/n/i
2417 [21:35:22] *** Quits: Hellphyre23 (~Hellphyre@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2418 [21:35:25] <greycat> that's the coexistence feature
2419 [21:35:25] <earend1> jhutchins_wk: yup. without any config i
get the same error in the logs. its always missing a display or
something
2420 [21:35:53] <earend1> jhutchins_wk: i tried lightdm .. and
startx
2421 [21:35:55] *** Joins: Dragon092 (~Dragon@replaced-ip )
2422 [21:36:28] <useretail> greycat, when i add to interfaces it
also takes about 1.5 minutes to raise network during boot
2423 [21:36:38] <somiaj> earend1: what video card and driver are
you using?
2424 [21:36:41] <earend1> jhutchins_wk: would startx start a
session and all stuff required to run a wm?
2425 [21:36:44] <greycat> so it was *never* in /e/n/i in the FIRST
PLACE?!
2426 [21:36:54] <useretail> probably because of dhcp
2427 [21:37:01] <greycat> *headdesk*
2428 [21:37:07] <useretail> no idea
2429 [21:37:14] *** Quits: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
2430 [21:37:22] <earend1> somiaj: radeon hd .. did run with and
without proprietart drivers on stretch
2431 [21:37:34] *** Quits: mvaenskae (~mvaenskae@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2432 [21:38:07] *** Quits: trifolio6 (~h@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2433 [21:38:15] <somiaj> earend1: well I would check some things,
first see if the radeon or amdgpu module is loaded, 'lsmod |
grep radeon' and 'lsmod | grep amdgpu'
2434 [21:38:19] *** Quits: theCorvus (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2435 [21:38:29] *** Joins: trifolio6 (~h@replaced-ip )
2436 [21:38:32] <earend1> not sure if its eventually efi that
blacklists unsigned drivers eventually
2437 [21:38:34] <somiaj> also it could be a firmware issue, many
amd/radeon cards require non-free firmware in the
firmware-amd-graphics package
2438 [21:38:47] <earend1> somiaj: gets listed
2439 [21:38:51] *** Joins: theCorvus (~quassel@replaced-ip )
2440 [21:38:53] <somiaj> so the radeon driver is loaded?
2441 [21:39:16] <somiaj> okay, do you have the non-free firmware
for amd cards installed?
2442 [21:39:23] *** Joins: mvaenskae (~mvaenskae@replaced-ip )
2443 [21:39:29] <earend1> i get a few lines with amd and vga. it
doesnt say if its loaded nor claim any errorrs
2444 [21:39:32] <somiaj> things you can check next is 'dmesg
| grep -i radeon' see if your kernel gives you any
errors/warnings baout your card.
2445 [21:39:34] <useretail> greycat, it was added. but like i
said, 1. boot was slow; 2. avahi appeared; 3. interface wasn't
visible in network manager
2446 [21:39:47] *** Quits: grobi (~rtng@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2447 [21:40:00] <somiaj> earend1: the next thing you can check is
your Xorg.0.log file (in either /var/log or $HOME/.local/share/xorg
depending on if you used startx or a displaymanager
2448 [21:40:03] *** Quits: allorder (~allorder@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2449 [21:40:27] <earend1> somiaj: so i definitely need to setup a
DISPLAY env variable or so?
2450 [21:40:33] <useretail> i have no problems using your method
but it brings only more issues (at least for wlan)
2451 [21:40:51] *** Quits: progart (~kamee@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving.)
2452 [21:41:10] <earend1> somiaj: if so.. how does it look like..
DISPLAY=0 .. or DISPLAY=:0 ?
2453 [21:41:50] <somiaj> no
2454 [21:41:53] *** Joins: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip )
2455 [21:41:54] <somiaj> startx should setup everything for you
2456 [21:42:11] <earend1> hm
2457 [21:42:25] <earend1> ok
2458 [21:42:33] *** Quits: zalt__ (~lambda443@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2459 [21:42:41] *** Quits: useretail (~useretail@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2460 [21:43:54] *** Joins: Hitmanu (~manuel@replaced-ip )
2461 [21:44:07] *** Quits: Gazooo (~Gazooo@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
2462 [21:44:28] <earend1> somiaj: i will try to reinstsall. will
make it install without any 'desktop system'.. what must i
install to have a minimal desktop system then manually. let's
say openbox. ... would apt i install openbox setup all i need to run
startx?
2463 [21:45:03] *** Joins: Gazooo (~Gazooo@replaced-ip )
2464 [21:45:13] <earend1> in some optimal case
2465 [21:45:25] <greycat> earend1: apt install xorg openbox xterm;
and then any firmware that's needed, etc.
2466 [21:45:42] <earend1> okay .. thanks.
2467 [21:46:07] <greycat> xorg depends on xinit which has the
startx command
2468 [21:46:42] <earend1> but apt will install it for me, by
default right? *depends
2469 [21:46:47] *** Joins: VadPerevad (~vadpereva@replaced-ip )
2470 [21:46:51] <earend1> when installing xorg
2471 [21:47:23] <somiaj> earend1: Unsure that this will fix the
issue you are having with the kernel/xorg/your card, but the way I
do it is minimial install, then install xserver-xorg package (which
pulls in all of xorg)
2472 [21:47:31] <somiaj> you then also need to install the WM of
choice.
2473 [21:47:39] <earend1> i remember you chose your words with
quite some precision. i assume depending* is significant here
2474 [21:47:58] <somiaj> earend1: oh you probably also need
xserver-xorg-core too
2475 [21:48:13] <greycat> somiaj: "xorg openbox xterm"
ought to cover the essentials
2476 [21:48:34] <somiaj> ahh yea, I seem to install the
server/client using those sepearate meta packages, forgot about xorg
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2478 [21:48:43] <tarzeau> my favourites are wmaker and
terminal.app or amiwm :)
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2480 [21:48:49] <earend1> so xorg not xserver-xorg
2481 [21:48:55] <earend1> ok
2482 [21:48:59] <earend1> thanks.
2483 [21:49:03] <greycat> xorg depends on xserver-xorg as well as
xinit, xfonts-*, ... oh it even has xterm so I didn't need to
add that one.
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2485 [21:49:44] <earend1> alright. but openbox should be
specified. and i will not need lightdm or anything right?
2486 [21:50:15] <greycat> right
2487 [21:50:19] <earend1> ok
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2493 [21:52:08] <jhutchins_wk> earend1: It will pull in
openbox's preferred dm automatically.
2494 [21:52:39] <greycat> jhutchins_wk: what are you smoking?
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2496 [21:53:09] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: Won't it?
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2501 [21:53:47] <greycat> wooledg:~$ apt-cache show openbox | grep
dm
2502 [21:53:48] <greycat> wooledg:~$
2503 [21:53:58] <jhutchins_wk> Hm.
2504 [21:54:01] <greycat> It's a window manager, not a
Desktop Environment.
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2512 [21:59:38] <jhutchins_wk> Ah. The
task-<desktop>-desktop and some of the desktops do pull it in.
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2515 [22:00:52] <greycat> If you avoid task-* and all that
nonsense, the traditional way to get a working X11 system is to
install xorg, your WM of choice, and your terminal of choice (or let
it pick xterm for you).
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2517 [22:01:22] <greycat> Then you just login on the console, and
run startx, fix whatever doesn't work (firmware, drivers), run
startx again, etc., repeat until it works.
2518 [22:01:25] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: I've always been a
little hazy about which components of a GUI provided which
functions.
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2520 [22:02:08] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: Do you run startx as a
user or as root?
2521 [22:02:13] <greycat> As user.
2522 [22:02:17] *** Quits: michaelni_ (~michael@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2523 [22:02:30] <greycat> wooledg 6003 5649 0 Aug26 tty1 00:00:00
/bin/sh /usr/bin/startx
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2531 [22:03:34] <jhutchins_wk> Ok. I used to start it as root,
seems like maybe before DMs became common. These days I just go with
whatever the default is in the installer, with the exception of
picking xfce instead of gnome.
2532 [22:04:14] <greycat> Starting it as root was *never* correct.
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2534 [22:04:58] <jhutchins_wk> It pulls the user from whoever
launches it rather than asking for a login, right?
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2540 [22:05:19] <greycat> Yes. It's a shell command. You type
it at the shell prompt.
2541 [22:05:50] <jhutchins_wk> (Well, it COULD be root's
shell... Shouldn't but could.)
2542 [22:06:06] <jhutchins_wk> I ran Linux for years before I
finally upgraded my system so it could run X.
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2556 [22:13:08] <earend1> btw. you have preference for installing
with root user "allowed" making it ask for a user without
privileges and also not installing sudo.. or do you install it with
a user incl. sudo for elevation
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2560 [22:15:14] <velix> greycat: Sorry, I've ignored your
warning and I've setup a chroot for a ssh user. It's
unbelieveable great.
2561 [22:15:18] <karlpinc> Myself, I like to use "su -"
not sudo. Because I like having to have 2 passwords to get to root.
But that only works when there's a single (or very few) people
who need root.
2562 [22:15:18] *** cdown_ is now known as cdown
2563 [22:15:28] <velix> greycat: When he logs in by ssh or scp, he
gets locked into the full powered debian chroot
2564 [22:15:57] <velix> greycat: I'll wrap it into a
namespacer later, so "ps" doesn't show root stuff.
2565 [22:15:57] <karlpinc> velix: Just don't think
you've got security with that setup.
2566 [22:16:05] <velix> karlpinc: Nah, didn't want that.
2567 [22:16:14] <greycat> so either you have an ssh login that can
do literally nothing because there are no commands available (except
possibly shell builtins, if somehow they manage to be able to run
even a shell), or you've created a mini-Debian installation in
a subdirectory so that you can trap users in that mini-Debian
instead of letting them cavort and frolick in the real system
2568 [22:16:23] <velix> karlpinc: Just wanted to lock our frontend
developer from the other parts of the server.
2569 [22:16:38] <greycat> either way I do not see the *point*
2570 [22:17:03] <velix> karlpinc: Now he can do node and git stuff
without messing with the real system ;)
2571 [22:17:05] <earend1> i am not sure why the installer chose to
ask for "allowing" a root user login. as if the sudo
option would be somehow the more approved concept
2572 [22:17:13] <karlpinc> velix: If they try they can break the
chroot.
2573 [22:17:29] <greycat> what secrets in the real system are you
trying to hide from users trapped in the chroot, and why would you
let users log into the system that HAS such secrets that you need to
hide?
2574 [22:17:35] <karlpinc> earend1: Sudo is popular because it
discourages people from being root.
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2576 [22:17:45] <greycat> why wouldn't you put the secrets on
a DIFFERENT system entirely?
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2578 [22:18:46] <velix> karlpinc: then he will get unemployed :-)
2579 [22:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1558
2580 [22:19:15] <greycat> so velix = PHB
2581 [22:19:17] <jhutchins_wk> karlpinc: That's all I use it
for, becoming root.
2582 [22:19:18] <greycat> lovely
2583 [22:19:24] <velix> greycat: PHB?
2584 [22:19:32] <greycat> !phb
2585 [22:19:33] <dpkg> i guess phb is pointy-haired boss (from
dilbert)
2586 [22:19:33] <velix> phantastic hobbit boots ?
2587 [22:19:35] <Habbie> pointy haired boss, a Dilbert character
2588 [22:19:47] <earend1> karlpinc: so you prefer not to use sudo?
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2590 [22:20:13] <earend1> (understanding its better to run with
elevated privliges\0
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2592 [22:20:21] <greycat> you intend to inflict your pointless and
childish notions of "security" on your intellectual
superiors, all to assuage your ego, and you will punish them
savagely if they resist
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2594 [22:20:46] <karlpinc> earend1: There's a place for sudo,
but mostly I don't use it.
2595 [22:20:50] <jhutchins_wk> I have configured it to grant
access to specific commands. The logging is a nice feature.
2596 [22:21:00] <velix> greycat: oh yeah, I've created a mini
debian installation (debootstrap minbase)
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2599 [22:21:16] <velix> I was too lazy to do all the ldd stuff for
node, git etc.
2600 [22:21:41] <velix> karlpinc: Do you have any documents on how
to break out of a chroot? I'm really curious.
2601 [22:21:54] <somiaj> I like sudo as a 'think before you
run as root' layer, but my use for it doesn't take
adavntage of its power.
2602 [22:21:54] <greycat> velix: the man page chroot(2) has one
2603 [22:21:55] <earend1> alright. yeah. i noticed it has more
options. like what environment to use or even specify the privileges
explicitly. stuff i couldnt configure by now anyways.
2604 [22:22:22] <greycat> velix: yes, the LINUX DEVELOPERS laugh
at chroot so hard that they DOCUMENTED HOW TO BREAK IT in the actual
man page.
2605 [22:22:54] <somiaj> well I don't think it was ever
inteneded to be a jail, but it works great if you aren't
worried about people breaking out
2606 [22:22:55] <velix> greycat: Thanks.
2607 [22:23:17] <velix> But for real, it's not about
security. More "tenant handling" ;)
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2609 [22:23:41] <velix> I don't like Debian for allowing
users to list other user's home directory.
2610 [22:23:42] <greycat> I don't even want to guess what the
winking smiley and scare quotes mean.
2611 [22:23:56] <Habbie> velix, i'm surprised nobody has
brought up Docker for your 'problem'
2612 [22:23:56] <velix> greycat: I wanted to sign sympathy.
2613 [22:23:57] <greycat> velix: then change the permissions.
2614 [22:24:00] <earend1> lol
2615 [22:24:05] <greycat> velix: you signed MALICE
2616 [22:24:07] <velix> Habbie: I'm using rootless podman.
2617 [22:24:12] <Habbie> velix, allowing users to list or not list
things is a simple matter of permissions
2618 [22:24:18] <velix> greycat: MALICE? Who the f*** is MALICE ?
2619 [22:24:19] <Habbie> velix, ah, then i have nothing to add :)
2620 [22:24:25] <somiaj> you have to be root ot break out of the
chroot, so they can be used, they just don't provide any
addiitional security from local privlage escliation.
2621 [22:24:30] <greycat> I'm... I'm just absolutely
disgusted, and thoroughly DONE with this. *plonk*
2622 [22:24:43] *** Quits: Sabotender (~Sabotende@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2623 [22:24:51] <velix> somiaj: My user isn't root, but the
chroot is run as root. I think, you can run it as non-proviliged
user, too?
2624 [22:25:34] <somiaj> velix: I'm talking more about the
applications run inside the chroot, yes you have to be root to
chroot (unless you use somehing like schroot), but once inside the
chroot, you can become another user and run stuff inside it as
non-root
2625 [22:25:46] <earend1> i hope u cant run a vm without root.
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2628 [22:26:11] <somiaj> my comment was if running some service
inside a chroot, in order for that service to break out of the
chroot, it first needs to become root, so needs a local privlage
escilation exploit for that.
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2630 [22:28:03] <velix> somiaj: isn't it the same problem as
docker? When the chroot is started as root (like the docker
service), you can get priviliged rights.
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2632 [22:28:21] <velix> somiaj: But when the chroot is run as
non-root, this shouldn't be possible at all.
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2634 [22:29:02] <Lady_Aleena> Hello. How do I get a list of every
sans-serif font on my system?
2635 [22:29:23] <earend1> no clue how that jailing works. it seems
a two sided sword. it seems jailed parts of the system can't be
monitored with the usual tools .. like netstat for instance. i asked
recently how to do it. the best guess i got here was to scan the
machine from a remote system. (for open ports it was)
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2637 [22:29:44] <somiaj> Lady_Aleena: fc-list
2638 [22:30:00] <somiaj> Lady_Aleena: so fc-list | grep -i sans
should do it
2639 [22:30:03] <hhmmm> surely you can manage this with a suitable
group, group writes in web directories and permissions to use
certain commands for that group in sudoers
2640 [22:30:15] <hhmmm> erm, the previous problem
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2644 [22:32:02] <karlpinc> !upg
2645 [22:32:03] <dpkg> [user private groups] a system
configuration idiom which allows users to collaborate by granting
shared access to a directory and its content. Access is controlled
by associating each collaborative project team with a Un*x group and
then granting Un*x group membership to the userids of the designated
project members.
replaced-url
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2647 [22:32:21] <karlpinc> Only the wiki page has been somewhat
munged over time.
2648 [22:32:38] <karlpinc> RH has some ancient articles, or just
google the idiom.
2649 [22:33:08] <greycat> That's the thing that made Debian
decide to "make a group for every user", some time around
20 years ago, right?
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2653 [22:35:07] <velix> karlpinc: will have a look
2654 [22:35:30] <karlpinc> greycat: Right.
2655 [22:35:44] <greycat> My god, the "explanations" on
this page are just as obtuse now as they were 20 years ago.
2656 [22:35:50] <velix> karlpinc: I've used ACLs for this in
the past
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2658 [22:36:33] <karlpinc> greycat: Like I said, the page got
munged. IIRC the top google hit, some years back, was good.
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2662 [22:36:48] <hhmmm> think i meant a system group
2663 [22:36:56] <greycat> Ah, I see your name all over the page
history...
2664 [22:36:58] *** Quits: ibalerio (~ibalerio@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2665 [22:37:07] <karlpinc> greycat: I wrote it, but haven't
maintained it.
2666 [22:37:33] <karlpinc> greycat: Hard to say now how good a job
I did.
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2668 [22:38:32] <karlpinc> The concept is dirt simple: Each user
gets a unique primary group, umask is 0002, and shared directories
are chmod g=rwxs.
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2670 [22:39:05] <Lady_Aleena> somiaj, thank you. I wish I could
see samples of those fonts.
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2672 [22:39:21] <greycat> That's the part that's missing
from the page. "Here's how it worked before. Here's
how it works now, and why we made this change."
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2674 [22:39:22] <karlpinc> Then, if you want to share, make a
group and chgrp the shared dir. Anybody in the group can do whatever
in the directory.
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2689 [22:46:54] <somiaj> Lady_Aleena: yea, I've used gimps or
gtk3 apps font select, it helps see them
2690 [22:47:05] <somiaj> but in that case I don't know to
quickly parse it to only give say Sans fonts
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2693 [22:48:04] <Lady_Aleena> somiaj, it is hard finding the
widest sans-serif font on my system.
2694 [22:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1552
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2697 [22:50:57] <jhutchins_wk> There used to be some decent (gui)
font managers in Linux.
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2700 [22:51:51] <Lady_Aleena> jhutchins_wk, I'm looking at
font-manager right now.
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2702 [22:53:02] <jhutchins_wk> Lady_Aleena: Some font managers
have more features than others.
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2708 [22:54:00] <Lady_Aleena> jhutchins_wk, I guess I went with
the one that was the easiest to find in the package manager.
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2714 [22:59:48] <velix> karlpinc: Just curious, IS there a secure
way to lock a ssh user into something?
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do nothin' 'cause I'm cute and furry)
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2734 [23:06:04] <velix> maybe I should ask in
security or linux
2735 [23:06:05] <velix> Sorry
2736 [23:06:53] *** Quits: ElFerna (~ElFerna@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2737 [23:07:04] *** Quits: srgg (~srgg@replaced-ip ) (Quit: srgg)
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2741 [23:08:23] <somiaj> velix:
replaced-url
2742 [23:08:42] <SerajewelKS> it would be better to restrict them
to a container
2743 [23:09:08] *** Joins: alkysteve (~steven@replaced-ip )
2744 [23:09:08] <velix> somiaj: Yeah. that's the hardcore
style. It's pretty hard to administrate, but I've done it
before.
2745 [23:09:10] <somiaj> there are other ways to restrict what
users see (look up restriced shells) as well, but unless you, as
SerajewelKS points out, restrict them to a container/vm, you
don't have that good of protection
2746 [23:09:43] <velix> somiaj & SerajewelKS: but then
I'd need to run a second sshd on another port for this specific
user
2747 [23:09:52] <SerajewelKS> chroot provides _no_ security if
there is a local privilege escalation vulnerability. chroot is 100%
ineffective against root, so if the user can find a way to escalate
to root, the chroot does nothing.
2748 [23:11:15] <SerajewelKS> velix: in theory you can leverage
sshd_config's ForceCommand to force them into a container, but
i have no practical experience doing that
2749 [23:11:15] <somiaj> and though you would think local privlage
escilation bugs should have been fixed, the ones that are local only
sometimes are the slowest to be fixed
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2752 [23:12:24] <SerajewelKS> velix: something like: ForceCommand
exec docker $image /bin/bash
2753 [23:12:34] *** Quits: hhmmm (~i@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2754 [23:12:39] <SerajewelKS> assuming you give the user rights to
exec inside that image, and /bin/bash is the path to a shell inside
2755 [23:12:54] <velix> SerajewelKS: I'm normally using
rootless space in userspace, so no root at all
2756 [23:12:56] <somiaj> velix:
replaced-url
2757 [23:13:09] <velix> yeah, got it. just was curioous
2758 [23:13:11] <velix> -o
2759 [23:13:12] <SerajewelKS> velix: i have no idea what
"rootless space" means
2760 [23:13:24] <velix> SerajewelKS: rootless podman ;)
2761 [23:14:23] <velix> SerajewelKS:
replaced-url
2762 [23:14:36] <SerajewelKS> velix: okay fine, so substitute
whatever command for podman
2763 [23:14:55] <velix> SerajewelKS: it shares the same command
line with docker. So it's similar :D
2764 [23:15:04] <velix> SerajewelKS: I'll play with it,
thanks.
2765 [23:15:07] <SerajewelKS> np
2766 [23:15:16] <velix> But actually, I trust our frontend
developer not trying to mess with the main server.
2767 [23:15:18] <SerajewelKS> note you probably want this inside a
Match block in sshd_config
2768 [23:15:21] *** Parts: FunkyBob (~curtis@replaced-ip ) ()
2769 [23:15:33] <velix> I just wanted to give him a clean non-root
environment for deploying
2770 [23:16:02] <SerajewelKS> e.g. "Match User bob" or
"Match Group restricted"
2771 [23:16:45] <SerajewelKS> note that ForceCommand ignores the
ssh command. so he won't be able to do 'ssh yourserver
foobar' to run 'foobar' because ForceCommand
supercedes that
2772 [23:16:48] <somiaj> how simple is their deplyoment, you could
give the acces to scp only (no shell access) and access to only run
the commands they need via ssh, so they never actually login to a
shell on the box, but can still copy files to it, and run set
commands.
2773 [23:17:04] *** Joins: nuno_nunes (~PC@replaced-ip )
2774 [23:17:20] <SerajewelKS> somiaj: "no shell" and
"run the commands they need via ssh" are mutually
exclusive :P
2775 [23:17:39] <velix> Oh, OpenSSH has ChrootDirectory ...
2776 [23:17:53] <velix> just curious ;)
2777 [23:17:57] <SerajewelKS> velix: yes it does, and as
we've already pointed out ad nauseum, chroots are not an
effectively security measure
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2779 [23:18:03] <SerajewelKS> effective*
2780 [23:18:03] <velix> yeah yeah ;)
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2783 [23:18:15] <somiaj> SerajewelKS: then how would you describe
users being able to 'ssh host foobar' but not actually get
a login shell?
2784 [23:18:19] <velix> But what about systemd's sandboxing?
maybe that's secure?
2785 [23:18:30] <SerajewelKS> somiaj: sshd runs `$SHELL -c foobar`
2786 [23:18:43] <SerajewelKS> somiaj: there's still a shell
at play
2787 [23:18:58] <SerajewelKS> velix: maybe. i know even less about
that. good luck. :P
2788 [23:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1546
2789 [23:19:20] <velix> SerajewelKS: no problem, but I like the
container idea
2790 [23:19:26] <somiaj> yea, maybe I sohlud have specified you
can prevent login shells, but use interactive ones via ssh and you
can even restrict what commands they are allowed to run this way
2791 [23:19:52] <somiaj> velix: my guess is they are as secure as
most restrictive shells/chroots. If someone gets root privlage
escilation, all security is lost
2792 [23:20:08] <somiaj> unlike using a container, at least iff
they get root on the container, they can't get to the rest of
the system.
2793 [23:20:13] *** Quits: Namarrgon (~glei@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.5)
2794 [23:20:23] <SerajewelKS> or we hope they can't get to
the rest of the system, anyway :)
2795 [23:20:38] *** Quits: Renari (~Renari@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2796 [23:20:50] <SerajewelKS> wasn't there a docker vuln last
year that allowed a non-root user in any container to run commands
as root outside the container?
2797 [23:20:53] <velix> somiaj: I think, that's a problem in
docker, since the central service in running as root.
2798 [23:20:55] *** Quits: Shahnaz_ (~Shahnaz@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2799 [23:20:56] <velix> yeah
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2806 [23:22:27] <somiaj> velix: though the root inside the
container is not the same as the root on the host, and I thought
docker is in theory not escapable even if you are root on the inside
2807 [23:22:49] <velix>
replaced-url
2808 [23:23:00] <velix> They're explaining several possible
problems.
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2810 [23:23:39] <SerajewelKS> somiaj: assuming no vulnerabilities,
that's the goal, yes
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2812 [23:23:58] <velix> Docker is trying to do the same thing,
Podman is able to do in modern kernels:
replaced-url
2813 [23:24:36] <velix> They're trying to move dockerd to
user instead of root
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2857 [23:44:40] <Jay31> install gentoo
2858 [23:45:15] *** Quits: _till_ (~till@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2859 [23:45:30] <annadane> no thanks
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2861 [23:47:20] *** Quits: Nefertiti (~Nefertiti@replaced-ip ) (Quit: ........)
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