Realtime Nick Name Ticker of #debian at freenode (ICQ IRC service)

0[00:01:03] <imMute> jak2000: that USB device listed at the end of dmesg is not a USB storage device.
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4[00:02:57] <shtrb> jak2000, isn't that usb a token key ?
5[00:03:18] <jhutchins> jak2000: What did you try to do? How did you try to do it? What did you expect to happen? What happened instead?
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7[00:03:27] <imMute> shtrb: looks like it from replaced-url
8[00:04:07] <jak2000> shtrb yes
9[00:04:13] <shtrb> imMute, yep, I knew it,it's a token key (or auth/z key)
10[00:04:28] <imMute> yeah. jak2000 those kinds of USB devices are not storage, you can't mount them.
11[00:04:41] <shtrb> jak2000, what do you mean by mounting it ? token keys normally need special software to read and perform the authntication from
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13[00:05:15] <shtrb> If that's anything like the hmodels I used, you need a user space application that interact with it
14[00:05:24] <jak2000> shtrb: replaced-url
15[00:05:54] <jhutchins> Looks like it's an encryption/authentication device.
16[00:06:10] <jak2000> ok i installed proxmox... and created a Windows 10 VM, the software need read the USB, how to do?
17[00:06:40] <shtrb> you need to forward the interface into the vm not to read it directly
18[00:07:00] <jak2000> yes, how to?
19[00:07:47] <jak2000> can i paste a image of my VM Control?
20[00:08:20] <shtrb> sorry mate , I don't know proxmox , maybe some else
21[00:08:44] <imMute> jak2000: this channel doesn't support proxmox. you might find someone who is willing to help you, but don't count on it.
22[00:09:10] <shtrb> ,v proxmox
23[00:09:11] <judd> No package named 'proxmox' was found in amd64.
24[00:09:17] <imMute> replaced-url
25[00:09:22] <imMute> jak2000: ^^
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27[00:10:24] <jhutchins> !proxmox
28[00:10:25] <dpkg> Proxmox Virtual Environment (Proxmox VE) is a GNU/Linux distribution <based on Debian>, providing a virtualization platform with <LXC> and <KVM>. It is not supported in #debian. There's an unofficial proxmox channel on Freenode. For official venues, see ##replaced-url
29[00:10:36] <jak2000> imMute thanks
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31[00:11:10] <shtrb> What will happen when LTS ends for a distribution ? moving to archive ? just no more security upgrades ?
32[00:11:17] <shtrb> asking for jessie
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34[00:12:47] <imMute> shtrb: I believe it gets removed from the main archives when LTS ends.
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36[00:13:04] <imMute> and package updates definitely end at that point. (has already ended for some packages)
37[00:13:34] <shtrb> imMute, you mean removed from mirrors or even from archive ?
38[00:13:38] <jak2000> working
39[00:13:41] <jak2000> starting vm
40[00:13:48] <imMute> shtrb: both. same thing.
41[00:14:11] <shtrb> wow , I expected replaced-url
42[00:14:17] <imMute> shtrb: it won't get removed from snapshot.debian.org though. that thing never deletes anything.
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44[00:14:54] <shtrb> thanks imMute
45[00:15:17] <imMute> oh wait. archive.debian.org is something else. I dunno what happens there, but it has even older releases in it, so maybe jessie will stay in there too
46[00:15:52] <imMute> now I'm wondering what archive.d.o is when we have snapshot.d.o
47[00:16:13] <shtrb> isn't snapshots for debugging :) ?
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50[00:16:43] <imMute> it's literally a snapshot of the apt repo at various points in time. I've used it to grab old versions of packages, and seen it used to access old releases.
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52[00:17:09] <shtrb> I know, I used it to find the last working packages when I was filing bugs
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72[00:34:50] <Celmor[m]> what could cause unrealistically high cpu usage for a process (5124120h)?
73[00:35:03] <Celmor[m]> as shown by htop unter TIME+
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75[00:35:07] <Celmor[m]> under*
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79[00:45:31] <phogg> it's not unrealistic if your computer has been on for 584 years
80[00:46:11] <imMute> phogg: that's one core though. if you have a 128 core machine, it would "only" take 4.6 years to hit that.
81[00:46:43] <phogg> imMute: it was what you might call a joke
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93[01:07:25] <urk> Would someone be able to help me with the following error message "The attempt to mount a file system with type ext4 in dev/nveme0n1p2 at / failed."
94[01:07:56] <urk> I already erased the file system at / Seems like the official, and unofficial installers are a lot more problematic than in the past.
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96[01:09:02] <imMute> there's clearly copy-paste errors in that message. and what do you mean you "erased the filesystem at /" ?
97[01:09:49] <urk> I set this up for dual boot so the first device in the list is ESP, followed by /, followed /boot, followed by /SWAP, followed by /home, followed by /usr/local, followed by /usr, followed by /var, followed by /var/mail, followed by /tmp, followed by /srv.
98[01:10:38] <imMute> which list?
99[01:10:47] <urk> imMute> I went to the partition routine, selected /, scrolled down to erase, and a message said that it would turn the file system into zeros.
100[01:11:05] <imMute> in the installer you mean?
101[01:11:19] <urk> imMute> Yes.
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106[01:12:08] <urk> So far I have only been able to get the testing version to install on here.
107[01:12:20] <imMute> okay, 1) that's way too many partitions, you very likely don't need them all separated out like that. 2) I assume you got that message after you confirmed the partitioning layout. how did you setup the / partition? did you give it a filesystem type?
108[01:12:48] <imMute> unless you have specific needs and know what you're doing, you should probably stick to the guided partitioning setup.
109[01:12:54] <urk> imMute> / is ext4
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111[01:14:44] <urk> Incidentally, / is 25 GB, /boot is 10 GB, SWAP is 10 GB, /home is 75 GB, /usr/local is 20 GB, /usr is 20 GB, /var is 20 GB, /var/mail is 30 GB, /tmp is 5 GB and is setup with Ext 2, and /srv is 20 gb.
112[01:15:10] <imMute> that is probably the most bizzare setup I've ever heard of.
113[01:15:27] <urk> imMute> What is bizarre about it?
114[01:15:49] <sussudio> the rest goes to /GAMP, maybe.
115[01:16:38] <imMute> where to start... /boot is way too big. /usr/local doesn't need to be it's own partition, neither does usr. why is /tmp ext2? Why is /srv separate? Why is /var/mail separate?
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117[01:17:01] <sney> maybe they're playing "no space left on device" roulette ;)
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119[01:17:31] <urk> imMute> Because ext2 will purge temp files, and supposedly does a better job of garbage collection than ext4
120[01:18:05] <imMute> the first part of that is nonsense. the second part might be right, but IMO tmpfs is better for /tmp anyway.
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122[01:18:46] <urk> imMute> /var/mail is separate so that I don't get my whole system taken down by spam if I run a mail server.
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125[01:19:18] <imMute> are you planning on running a mail server on this?
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127[01:20:10] <urk> imMute> Would like to
128[01:20:47] <imMute> there are probably ways to limit mailbox size in the mail daemon rather than a hard filesystem limit, but w/e.
129[01:20:57] <imMute> what about the other Qs?
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134[01:23:33] <urk> test
135[01:23:44] <urk> Things I type are not posting.
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137[01:24:19] <urk> inMute> /usr would allow me to preserve root since it changes in size, and /usr/local would allow me to preserve custom software.
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141[01:29:34] <urk> I don't know why I am having so much trouble installing Debbie stable. Usually things fire right up. I guess my horoscope stays "testing".
142[01:30:02] <urk> Or was that horrorscope?
143[01:31:11] <urk> imMute> Does anything in my partition setup cause the error message I see on my screen?
144[01:33:41] <imMute> not that I can think of. can you post screenshots of the partitioning parts of the installer?
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148[01:43:56] <urk> inMute> Not sure what you mean by that. Also, it might be a bit difficult, but probably could do it with a snapshot from my cell phone.
149[01:45:42] <urk> imMute> The error message came up when I try to write to disk. I haven't been able to find one stable release in 10.8.0 that doesn't have this problem. Additionally the stable release doesn't detect my hardware, but that isn't a huge issue for me since I can download the drivers off of Dell's website. I had no problem at all with 10.10.0 Testing. However, Xfburn in testing doesn't work.
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151[01:46:34] <imMute> did you try the "unofficial" images that have non-free software bundled in?
152[01:47:08] <urk> imMute> I tried unofficial first, as well as unofficial hybrid, and came across the same problem in all of them.
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154[01:48:07] <urk> One option for me would be to go to an earlier version of stable.
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156[01:49:24] <urk> Its not inconceivable that there is a disk error, but not sure what tools are available in the shell. fdisk, and cfdisk are not available in the stable installer shell, but they should be.
157[01:50:29] <sussudio> use one of the many rescue disks that are available
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160[01:54:09] <urk> sussudio> Thats a good idea. However, it might not be relevant if the problem is with the installer itself. I am leaning on using an earlier version of Debian stable.
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165[01:56:06] <urk> Where is the last version of stable located at?
166[01:56:18] <urk> The one before 10.8.0
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173[02:00:29] <sussudio> i'm guessing oldstable on debian.org somewhere
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176[02:04:20] <urk> sussudio> Its been exercised from the system. I looked up 10.7.0, followed the prompts, and developers will only let me download the current release replaced-url
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179[02:04:47] <urk> There is a strong case for putting an earlier release on the website.
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183[02:07:48] <sney> urk: all previous releases are still hosted on cdimage, replaced-url
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185[02:08:08] <urk> sney> Thanks.
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219[02:34:17] <dreamer> hmm, my dmesg is being flooded with `[drm] *ERROR* Failed to wait for idle; VT'd may hang.`
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221[02:34:40] <dreamer> I also have an x201 -> replaced-url
222[02:34:56] <dreamer> should I set this? -> replaced-url
223[02:35:03] <dreamer> I'm on 5.10.0-0.bpo.3-amd64
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225[02:36:21] <oerheks> dreamer, see the 1st answer; intel_iommu=off or intel_iommu=igfx to the bootline?
226[02:38:17] <dreamer> hmhm, but don't want to jump on "if I don't see the problem it goes away" immediately without maybe an expert oppinion ;)
227[02:39:06] <dreamer> second topic is debian, so a regression? ;)
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249[03:13:13] <cluelessperson> I've gotten archvsync / ftpsync to work
250[03:13:23] <cluelessperson> but I'm having trouble getting a mirror synced
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255[03:28:57] <urk> I'm downloading Debian 10.7.0 stable release iso, and it is one huge file. I'm up to 1.1GB, and it is still going.
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257[03:29:35] <urk> Has anyone successfully installed from 10.8.0 unofficial hybrid?
258[03:29:41] <dvs> urk: you could download the netinst iso if you have a good internet connection
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262[03:31:37] <urk> dvs> I'm already into it so I will probably just stay with it. Its good to have a bootable install disk anyway. I will be glad when the bugs are out the unofficial hybrid stable release. They hybrid has the files for bot net install, and making a bootable disk.
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294[04:11:04] <urk> dvs> I have a fast connection, but the laptop I am downloading on is ancient (20 years). I'm on an HP Pavilion de4000 with a Centrino processor. Its a 32-bit system that is tortuous to work on because it is so slow. So far I am up to 2 GB on the download. If this download was on the computer next to me, it would have been done in a few minutes.
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296[04:14:35] <ectospasm> urk: can you sneakernet it? Maybe its USB port will be faster than 802.11b (or whatever wifi it's capable of)
297[04:14:59] <ectospasm> Although, finding a USB drive that's USB 1.x compatible might be difficult
298[04:15:08] <ectospasm> Though you may be lucky, and it's USB 2.0+
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301[04:17:09] <dvs> urk: what are you going to do with the ISO image once you download it on that computer?
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305[04:22:38] <urk> dvs> dd it to a superfast USB, and use the USB to install Debian stable release on a Dell XPS 15 7590.
306[04:23:32] <urk> dvs> I am going to a triple boot with Win 10, Debian 10.7.0, and Open BSD.
307[04:24:00] <n4dir> the question probably is why you download it on that computer.
308[04:24:03] <urk> For some reason the stable releases in 10.8.0 won't let me write to disk in 10.8.0 I had no problem with the Testing release, but I don't want to use Testing.
309[04:24:46] <n4dir> i for one sure never experienced downloading an iso on a really old computer to be a problem though
310[04:25:26] <urk> n4dir> Its all I have right now. I could have done a net install on the XPS, but I would like to have a bootable USB stick for emergencies. I am going to write to a partition on the USB, and use another partition for firmware if not picked up by the OS install iso.
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312[04:26:00] <urk> n4dir> It downloads ok. It just slooooow
313[04:26:13] <n4dir> why not download from the XPS?
314[04:27:08] <urk> n4dir> There is no OS on it at this moment. It came with Win 10 which was toasted by the previous attempt at installing Debian Linux.
315[04:27:17] <n4dir> ah
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317[04:28:24] <urk> Download is up to 2.4 GB so I probably don't have much more to go, maybe only another .6 gb
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320[04:31:34] <dvs> urk: toasted by an install? So you have to (re)install on that computer too?
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324[04:37:41] <sussudio> urk: doesn't it have a recovery partition
325[04:38:05] <urk> dvs> Only came with Win 10, but I only need Linux to get by. I was going to do a triple boot to hopefully inspire some development interests of mine.
326[04:38:38] <urk> sussudio> It might, but I don't use Windows to save my work data in.
327[04:38:53] <dvs> urk: if you want to do a triple boot, you're better off installing Windows first.
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329[04:40:48] <urk> I set aside the first partition for EFI.
330[04:41:09] <dvs> yup
331[04:41:15] <urk> dvs> Are you sure about that? About a decade ago Windows had to be installed last or the system wouldn't boot.
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338[04:47:22] <dvs> urk: my experience is the opposite. When Windows is installed last, it does all sorts of changes as if it's the only OS on the computer.
339[04:48:50] <urk> dvs> Was your experience recent (last three years)?
340[04:49:23] <urk> What boot menu will be available if I install Windows first?
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342[04:50:11] <dvs> urk: There won't be a boot menu if you install Windows first.
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347[04:53:08] <urk> dvs> Well once everything is installed, I need to have a method of selecting which OS to run.
348[04:53:42] <urk> I have a 1 tb drive so I have enough room to do a dual boot.
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351[04:55:02] <jmcnaught> There won't be a boot menu if Windows is installed last. Windows assumes it will be the only OS. If you install Windows first and Debian second, then you get GRUB as a boot menu, and os-prober will detect Windows for the GRUB menu.
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353[04:55:13] <dvs> urk: Windows still makes an EFI partition. When Debian is installed, it will add a boot menu if Debian is selected to boot first.
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357[05:02:17] <urk> dvs> The XPS laptop only lets the first partition become bootable.
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360[05:02:52] <urk> Am I correct that windows needs to be in the first partition?
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371[05:04:32] <dvs> urk: If Dell supports UEFI then it doesn't only boot off of the first partition..
372[05:04:34] <jmcnaught> Actually I might be wrong about the order of installation mattering when you use UEFI and GPT: replaced-url
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374[05:04:50] * dvs gasps
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383[05:06:54] <urk> When running the Debian Linux install stable release it would only let me make the first partition bootable.
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385[05:07:29] <jmcnaught> Are you using MBR or GPT?
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410[05:28:17] <urk> jmcnaught> I don't know if it is GPT or MBR. My understanding is that GPT is usually on drives that are 2 GB or larger. I have a 1 TB drive. I have sent a question to Dell's support in India on Whatsapp.
411[05:29:35] <urk> jmcnaught> It is GPT, and I just got a confirmation from Dell.
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421[05:48:32] <urk> jmcnaught> Wikipedia seems to indicate that the order of installation with GPT no longer matters. replaced-url
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424[05:57:46] <urk> Looks like there is no problem with reinstalling windows, and Dell has a tool in the bios that pulls it from the net.
425[05:58:39] <urk> Well its getting late. I am going to continue the Debian reinstall tomorrow, and just waiting for the download to complete. So far I am up to 2.9 GB.
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451[06:46:58] <StarOnD> Hello I have Debian buster and an ext4 file system. I wish to make snapshots of files in the /home directory while my users may be writing to their home directory. I do not wish to format to LVM for the sake of snapshots. What should I do ? I have read about dmsetup command, however I am a little confused as to what it can do. Can someone please
452[06:46:59] <StarOnD> help me make snapshots WITHOUT formatting the disk to LVM ?
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456[06:52:22] <cluelessperson> StarOnD, ext4 is a filesystem with a explicit list of features
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458[06:52:33] <cluelessperson> StarOnD, "snapshots" are not supported by ext4
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461[06:53:47] <cluelessperson> StarOnD, ultimately, to have atomic snapshots, you have to have a layer that supports it between files / storage.
462[06:53:57] <StarOnD> cluelessperson, what exactly is a device mapper ? Can it be used to make snapshots ?
463[06:55:03] <cluelessperson> StarOnD, I haven't reviewed that closely, but I think it's used to map software wrapped devices, as devices.
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466[06:55:30] <StarOnD> cluelessperson, replaced-url
467[06:55:36] <cluelessperson> StarOnD, So you have actual devices, and you have software that acts on those devices, and need a way to map a new device from the software.
468[06:56:15] <StarOnD> cluelessperson, can a device mapper "map" an ext4 device to create snapshots? Do I misunderstand?
469[06:57:46] <cluelessperson> StarOnD, something like: block_storage - kernel - file_system or block_storage - kernel - logical_volume_manager - device_mapper - file_system ?
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471[06:58:11] <cluelessperson> StarOnD, ah, so, it looks like device mapper may support writing diffs to another block device, and acting as that snapshot layer I suggested.
472[06:58:26] <cluelessperson> in which case, you'd be inserting device mapper in there like
473[06:58:58] <cluelessperson> block_storage1, block_storage2 - kernel - device_mapper - file_system
474[06:59:04] <cluelessperson> ---
475[06:59:43] <StarOnD> cluelessperson, I need to become an expert in device mapper
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477[06:59:58] <StarOnD> any hints?
478[07:00:00] <cluelessperson> StarOnD, replaced-url
479[07:01:02] <StarOnD> cluelessperson, looks like we CAN make snpashots in ext4 file systems then. correct?
480[07:02:34] <cluelessperson> StarOnD, you happened to identify that the underlying device mapper supports snapshots using COW. :P
481[07:02:57] <cluelessperson> StarOnD, more like, "snapshots ahead of" not "in"
482[07:03:47] <cluelessperson> StarOnD, so basically, you'd have to setup a second block device, configure device-mapper to use it for snapshots, then remount root on it, make sure it works
483[07:03:54] <cluelessperson> reconfigure to boot on that.
484[07:04:10] <StarOnD> cluelessperson, many thanks, I am a little confused though. is rebooting a must?
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486[07:04:49] <cluelessperson> StarOnD, to test that it automatically loads that properly and uses it as intended after an eventual reboot, yes.
487[07:05:00] <cluelessperson> to test if it works at all immediately, no.
488[07:05:24] <cluelessperson> StarOnD, servers 100% fail/restart eventually, anything you setup in production or long term should be tested across reboots.
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492[07:07:01] <StarOnD> cluelessperson, I will read this for a few hours and then come back.
493[07:08:14] <StarOnD> cluelessperson, one more query : how old is this snapshotting technology ? How did people make "consistent" backups in the years gone by ?
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530[07:52:17] <cluelessperson> it's been really difficult gettin g a debian mirror.
531[07:52:36] <cluelessperson> StarOnD, LVM has been around for awhile.
532[07:52:48] <cluelessperson> StarOnD, LVM is based on device mapper apparently, TIL
533[07:53:17] <StarOnD> cluelessperson, thank you
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645[10:27:26] <[fre]> Hey Guys & Gals.... looking for some future-thinking-thoughts about php7 & 8 maintenance in Debian.
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647[10:28:21] <[fre]> I'm trying to evaluate growth-options and corresponding maintenance for hosting different php-versions.
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650[10:29:06] <[fre]> Currently running Buster, which already lacks php7.3, although it contains 7.4 & 8.
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661[10:38:01] <themill> [fre]: the php maintainers have a 3rd party repo with a selection of lots of different php versions that can be coinstalled
662[10:38:30] <[fre]> ow, that's an answer I like.
663[10:38:44] <[fre]> How safe is it? How stable is it?
664[10:42:24] <[fre]> @themill can you tell me where to find it?
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855[11:11:07] <[fre]> themill: Is it any good for daily productive usage?
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896[11:44:25] <H4ndy> [fre] I am using sury.org PHP packages for many years now on production systems
897[11:45:31] <H4ndy> it allows you to stay on a specific point release for a long time and still get security fixes very fast
898[11:46:00] *** nkuttler_ is now known as nkuttler
899[11:46:20] <H4ndy> Configuration is also split by point release. I am currently using them to run 7.4 and 8.0 side by side on a machine
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905[11:48:44] <jochum> Same here
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907[11:49:06] <jochum> I'm using them on multiple ISPConfig Server's
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930[12:16:40] <shtrb> anyone else have problem with akonadi to send e-mails from buster ? it demend me to login to the web site each time now (connection via IMAP)
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999[13:59:35] <hmw[at]> I am still more or less asleep, please forgive any sillyness in my questions :) A friend was puzzled about net-tools being in repo "unstable" on his (potentially compromised) server. A quick web search seems to indicate, that this is in fact normal for sid. [...]
1000[14:00:17] <shtrb> sid is unstable
1001[14:00:39] <shtrb> hmw[at], ^
1002[14:00:41] <hmw[at]> Uhm. I grep -r unstable /etc/apt/* but there is no entry!?
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1005[14:01:22] <shtrb> you can either add unstable or sid in /etc/apt/sources.list (or apt/sources.list.d)
1006[14:01:26] <shtrb> it's the same
1007[14:01:27] <hmw[at]> So, the package will eventually get "normal" again, given enough time?
1008[14:01:42] <shtrb> no , the distribution is called unstable
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1010[14:01:51] <hmw[at]> Thanks, I know THAT much actually :) I am just trying to figure out the situation
1011[14:02:00] <hmw[at]> Alright, thanks
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1014[14:02:40] <Mister00X> hmw[at]: was this a Debian stable system to begin with?
1015[14:02:42] <shtrb> A package X after some time would move from unstable to testing and then to stable if everything is ok
1016[14:03:19] <shtrb> hmw[at], the same package name can exist in unstable and stable (but with different versions or the same one )
1017[14:03:20] <hmw[at]> Mister00X: I very much would expect so, my friend told me, he installed nothing fancy
1018[14:03:20] <themill> (packages do not move from testing to stable except once every 2ish years when a release is made)
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1020[14:03:50] <shtrb> themill, what's two years on irc ?
1021[14:03:52] <hmw[at]> That is not fast :)
1022[14:04:01] <themill> and at that time the symlink for 'stable' is changed, not the packages being moved
1023[14:04:07] <shtrb> hmw[at], debian is stable , stable mean conservative
1024[14:04:11] <hmw[at]> Yeah
1025[14:04:21] <hmw[at]> I wish, my OS wouild be, too. (Arch)
1026[14:04:42] <Mister00X> hmw[at]: how about having a look at apt policy. it should list all repos
1027[14:04:44] <shtrb> there is not better time to debootstrap then now
1028[14:04:58] <hmw[at]> I am just afraid of going back to a stable OS, because I am now used to have all the newest things :(
1029[14:05:27] <shtrb> then you can work with testing which is more stable than arch , but newer then stable
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1032[14:06:32] <hmw[at]> Thanks :) I'll consider it, when the coffee hits the brain
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1036[14:08:22] <hmw[at]> It is not an emergency anyways. My friend got startled by the word "unstable", and I myself noticed a few odd things in the last two months. Foremost, some issue with my ssh keys (Not sure, what may cause them to suddenly not be valid anymore). I accepted the new keys for now.
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1038[14:08:57] <shtrb> If there is doubt , there's no doubt -> backup , reinstall , git reset --hard
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1040[14:09:27] <hmw[at]> Yeah, luckily, we can easily reinstall it, should that be indicated.
1041[14:09:37] <shtrb> !unix lessons
1042[14:09:37] <dpkg> unix lessons is, like, (1) Don't change the permissions, (2) back up your data, (3) keep it simple, stupid, (4) read the fscking manual, (5) don't fsck with package management, (6) don't type anything you don't understand, (7) always have a boot floppy or CD, (8) read your log files, (9) the FIRST error is the one that counts, (10) don't leave your root shell until you TEST your changes, (11) don't be root when you don't have to be
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1044[14:09:45] <hmw[at]> Thanks for you help, channel!
1045[14:10:03] <hmw[at]> fsck, I see. LOL
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1049[14:10:45] <hmw[at]> Heh, sudo -i is not even against the rules. I am relieved.
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1051[14:11:39] <Mister00X> hmw[at]: a fast way to check for enabled repos is looking at apt policy or for your special case apt policy | grep unstable
1052[14:12:24] <hmw[at]> Can grep those few entries with my eyes, even
1053[14:13:15] <hmw[at]> It is "Buster" btw
1054[14:13:42] <shtrb> you know a person had done some regex in his life, when he can evaluate regex with just his eyes :)
1055[14:14:50] * Mister00X excuses himself for being offtopic replaced-url
1056[14:15:04] <shtrb> :D
1057[14:15:26] <shtrb> Mister00X, fyi #debian-offtopic is a cool place
1058[14:15:58] <hmw[at]> is #debian more strict about going offtopic, or is it tolerated to some degree?
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1060[14:16:07] <Mister00X> shtrb: rigth is there another one on freenode or is there only the one on oftc
1061[14:16:20] <shtrb> there's one here :)
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1063[14:16:41] <shtrb> hmw[at], it depends, let us not annoy the admins and just move to #debian-offtopic
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1066[14:18:52] <hmw[at]> I'll go there in a bit. Normally, I usually watch the channel, and if it is calm, I might have some offtopic chat, until a question comes up.
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1068[14:20:07] <hmw[at]> I suppose, on a Buster install, a sid/main entry in the sources lists is not default, right?
1069[14:21:11] <hmw[at]> Can a tool have added such an entry for me, when I install that slightly exotic program a while ago?
1070[14:21:20] <hmw[at]> *installed
1071[14:22:05] <milkt> probably nothing in official repository will do that
1072[14:22:11] <hmw[at]> It is in unstable, but I don't remember adding the repo
1073[14:22:17] <Mister00X> hmw[at]: yes if adding stuff to sources.list.d is part of the postinst.
1074[14:22:33] <Mister00X> hmw[at]: M$ .debs do that
1075[14:23:01] <Mister00X> but usually they ad buster not sid sourches
1076[14:25:06] <hmw[at]> Fsck. I was awake for far too long and only got 4 hours sleep before my friend woke me up. My brain is not braining properly.
1077[14:25:21] <shtrb> Mister00X, that's only for VSCode as far as I remember
1078[14:26:42] <Mister00X> shtrb: and for skype and I believe for Teams too
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1123[15:28:50] <SanchoPensa> does anybody know, when bullseye si approximately gonna come out?
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1128[15:31:50] <SanchoPensa> that link to bullseye that dpkg produces does point to nowhere, btw... page not found when /dpgk release history and there replaced-url
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1131[15:33:22] <falsepositive> Hi!
1132[15:33:37] <SanchoPensa> hi
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1149[15:45:12] <H4ndy> SanchoPensa: website lists no release that but if it follows previous releases it should be ready mid-2021
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1157[15:55:45] <Gramcor> if i change hostname
1158[15:55:52] <Gramcor> do i need to reboot for changes to take effect?
1159[15:56:28] <petn-ran1all> Gramcor: no, assuming your using `hostname` to change it.
1160[15:56:33] <petn-ran1all> *you're
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1162[15:56:52] <Gramcor> petn-ran1all, can i use hostnamectl from systemd?
1163[15:56:56] <Gramcor> for the same effect
1164[15:57:10] <petn-randall> Gramcor: Or that, yeah.
1165[15:57:34] <Gramcor> petn-randall, also i need to changes /etc/hosts, do i have to reboot for that? or there is a command to avoid it
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1168[15:58:16] <petn-randall> Gramcor: Changes to /etc/hosts are instant, unless a running program caches state internally.
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1171[16:00:18] <Gramcor> petn-randall, oh i thought i needed to reboot for that too. thanks
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1174[16:01:45] <petn-randall> Gramcor: Only thing you need to reboot for on Linux is if you update the kernel or init. And even for kernel bugfixes there are things like live patching to avoid that.
1175[16:02:45] <Gramcor> i see. do you suggest hostname or hostnamectl? i am not sure if hostnamectl does extra systemd specific stuff
1176[16:03:15] <petn-randall> Gramcor: AFAIK they both do exactly the same thing.
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1183[16:07:08] <shtrb> Gramcor, some services would need to manualy update the hostname too : replaced-url
1184[16:07:25] <Gramcor> petn-randall, i am using ansible to automate some things, and it has a hostname module with strategies: debian, systemd, etc other distros
1185[16:07:42] <Gramcor> do you think both mechanisms hostname and hostnamectl will be available in the future?
1186[16:07:47] <Gramcor> or hostname will be deprecated?
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1190[16:10:39] <Gramcor> well this says using hostname or hostnamectl isn't enough, i might edit the file by hand (or use a template for ansible) and reboot
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1258[17:27:12] <wyre> where could I list an issue for minicom? apparently I cannot do it here replaced-url
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1268[17:32:37] <greycat> !bts
1269[17:32:37] <dpkg> Bug Tracking System for Debian packages, replaced-url
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1284[17:49:56] <hispeed_m> freem the keyboard layout bug is opened :D
1285[17:50:15] <freem> gj
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1288[17:51:21] <hispeed_m> thank you I will write a blog post about that but in german maybe for other this is also good to know.
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1324[18:23:13] <jhutchins> ,v calibre
1325[18:23:15] <judd> Package: calibre on amd64 -- jessie: 2.5.0+dfsg-1; stretch: 2.75.1+dfsg-1; stretch-backports: 3.39.1+dfsg-3~bpo9+1; buster: 3.39.1+dfsg-3; buster-backports: 3.48.0+dfsg-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 5.11.0+dfsg-1; sid: 5.11.0+dfsg-1
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1333[18:27:10] <jhutchins> I wonder if there would be any problems running 3.39 and 3.48 against the same database.
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1395[19:51:06] <dfcnvt> The latest Debian version for stable, is 10.8?
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1399[19:53:17] <urk> dfcnvt> Supposed to be.
1400[19:54:05] <alex11> yep
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1405[19:56:03] <oxek> dfcnvt: any version of debian 10 will upgrade to 10.8 after `apt upgrade`
1406[20:01:28] <dfcnvt> Okay, thanks.
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1420[20:17:05] <urk> I am getting no such file or directory when running the following, but not really sure why sudo dd if=~/Downloads/debian-10.7.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1 of=/dev/sdc1 bs=4M
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1423[20:17:29] <ice99> hexchat doesn't start with firejail unless (include disable-shell.inc / private-bin hexchat,python*) are disabled, any idea?
1424[20:18:15] <greycat> the ~ might not get expanded there, depending on which shell sudo runs
1425[20:18:16] <greycat> to be safer, use "$HOME" or the actual path
1426[20:18:16] <urk> I unmounted the drive before attempting to write to it.
1427[20:18:24] <greycat> also your destination device is WRONG. you need to write Debian installers to /dev/sdc not /dev/sdc1
1428[20:18:50] <greycat> but the actual error message probably indicates the ~ expansion issue
1429[20:19:10] <urk> I figured it out. I was missing .iso at the end of the source
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1432[20:19:37] *** strungout is now known as suffer
1433[20:19:43] <greycat> by the way, this is a really good example of why cp is better than dd for this purpose. you can tab-complete the filenames with cp.
1434[20:19:52] <urk> greycat> I was planning on partitioning the disks so that I could put firmware on a separate partition.
1435[20:20:00] <greycat> You can't do it that way.
1436[20:20:31] <greycat> the Debian installer is a whole disk image including a partition table and multiple partitions
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1440[20:23:05] <SanchoPensa> H4ndy: Thanks for the info!
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1446[20:25:13] <kale> what does it take to get a package into backports?
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1448[20:28:14] <greycat> a Debian developer
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1450[20:30:05] <kale> hmm... ok, I think i'll start by building th package myself or just pulling that singe package from bullseye
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1452[20:30:43] <greycat> building your own backport tends to be either trivially simple, or monstrously difficult, with not much in between
1453[20:30:59] <greycat> judd can tell you whether it'll be trivially simple
1454[20:31:20] <greycat> ,checkbackport bash
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1456[20:31:21] <judd> Backporting package bash in sid→buster/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using buster.
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1458[20:32:25] <urk> Well, I am now trying to install Debian 10.7.0, and have a new problem: can't mount the ESP (EFI) partition. However, I didn't have the problem with mounting / which was problematic with all of the stable installs for 10.8.0 Anyone have an idea how I can get past this problem with mounting, and writing to EFI?
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1461[20:33:32] <oxek> urk: what have you tried so far? And provide examples of commands you've ran.
1462[20:33:41] <oxek> mounting EFI partition should always work
1463[20:33:54] <oxek> it's just a FAT32 formatted one (usually)
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1465[20:38:58] <urk> oxek> I'm inside the install program, and just selected "Finish partitioning and write changes to disk". After entering I get the following error message "The attempt to mount a file system with type vfat in /devme0n1p1 at /boot/efi failed. You may resume partitioning from the partitioning menu. Do you want o resume partitioning?.
1466[20:39:42] <oxek> that sounds serious
1467[20:39:54] <oxek> did you setup partitions manually, or is that the result of automatic partitioning?
1468[20:40:20] <urk> Resuming partitioning didn't do anything, and took me back to the error.
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1470[20:40:55] <urk> I set the partitions up manually. ONe option would be to delete the efi, and let windows set it up. I have a guest so I will need to chat later.
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1472[20:40:58] <NetTerminalGene> ,v vlc
1473[20:40:59] <judd> Package: vlc on amd64 -- jessie: 2.2.7-1~deb8u1; jessie-security: 2.2.7-1~deb8u1; stretch: 3.0.11-0+deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 3.0.11-0+deb9u1; stretch-security: 3.0.11-0+deb9u1; buster: 3.0.12-0+deb10u1; buster-security: 3.0.12-0+deb10u1; bullseye: 3.0.12-2; sid: 3.0.12-2; stretch-multimedia: 1:3.0.7-dmo1+deb9u1; buster-multimedia: 1:3.0.12-dmo0+deb10u1;
1474[20:41:00] <judd> bullseye-multimedia: 1:3.0.12-dmo2; sid-multimedia: 1:3.0.12-dmo2
1475[20:41:35] <NetTerminalGene> same version with bullseye?
1476[20:41:38] <NetTerminalGene> oh my!
1477[20:41:49] <oxek> that's the latest one anyway
1478[20:42:07] <NetTerminalGene> that version doesn't support hdr color
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1480[20:42:28] <NetTerminalGene> oxek: is it official latest one?
1481[20:42:41] <oxek> videolan.org says 3.0.12 is latest
1482[20:42:50] <NetTerminalGene> oh my!
1483[20:42:52] <NetTerminalGene> yes
1484[20:43:00] <NetTerminalGene> after 2 years?
1485[20:43:19] <oxek> there haven't been many updates in VLC in some time, true
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1487[20:43:43] <NetTerminalGene> hdr color doesn't work on latest version
1488[20:43:57] <NetTerminalGene> videos are darker
1489[20:44:02] <oxek> does your graphics card & monitor support hdr?
1490[20:44:05] <NetTerminalGene> than normal one
1491[20:44:15] <NetTerminalGene> oxek: it works fine on mpv
1492[20:44:29] <oxek> oh yeah, vlc doesn't have that automatic HDR -> SDR stuff
1493[20:44:32] <oxek> need mpv for that
1494[20:45:11] <NetTerminalGene> and i want hw accel but mpv on buster has bug that doesn't work vaapi
1495[20:45:16] <NetTerminalGene> vlc works
1496[20:45:17] <NetTerminalGene> on
1497[20:46:00] <jhutchins> NetTerminalGene: I believe most of the people working on VLC are now working on MPV instead.
1498[20:46:35] <oxek> that doesn't sound right but you may be right
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1501[20:46:58] <oxek> I too prefer mpv nowadays
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1503[20:47:09] <NetTerminalGene> mpv also have memory leak on hdr videos
1504[20:47:11] <oxek> (if only latest mpv were in buster-backports though...)
1505[20:47:31] <NetTerminalGene> so, i want to use vlc
1506[20:48:22] <oxek> I don't think VLC handles HDR well
1507[20:48:29] <oxek> should be one of the big features of VLC 4.0
1508[20:49:01] <NetTerminalGene> maybe we should use snap version on bullseye then
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1510[20:50:49] <oxek> snap version is 3.0.12 too
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1512[20:52:27] <ScottPilgrim> Hello! Does anybody know what process/script is supposed to parse /etc/environment.d and ~/.config/environment.d? My Bullseye system seems to read in /etc/environment.d, but according to "man environment.d", I should be able to create ".config/environment.d" and this is not working.
1513[20:52:39] <jhutchins> NetTerminalGene: What's the bug number for the memory leak?
1514[20:53:14] <NetTerminalGene> jhutchins: i don't remember. it was just in searches
1515[20:53:32] <NetTerminalGene> jhutchins: but you're right. maybe i am wrong
1516[20:53:52] <NetTerminalGene> i may seen different stuff
1517[20:53:59] <greycat> ScottPilgrim: PAM does it. PAM in turn is run by things that have a profile in /etc/pam.d/ like login(1) or sshd(8)
1518[20:54:30] <greycat> actually, I might be wrong on that.
1519[20:54:55] <greycat> I think environment.d is only read by systemd, acting in a semi-PAM-compatible mode.
1520[20:55:27] <ScottPilgrim> greycat: that was the impression that I was working on, but I'll look into PAM a bit
1521[20:56:53] <greycat> the original /etc/environment is a PAM config file, so the fact that it's also used by systemd is for backward compatibility
1522[20:56:54] <greycat> in any case, every time I've looked at using environment or environment.d stuff, I've just thrown my hands up and given up, because it's utterly useless
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1524[20:57:38] <ScottPilgrim> greycat: LoL thanks I am coming to that conclusion myself
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1527[20:58:26] <ScottPilgrim> I might just fake it by sourcing these files from .profile or some such thing
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1529[20:59:56] <greycat> I've done similar experiments in the past. I have a file ~/.config/environment.d/69-foo.conf which contains the single line FOO=$HOME/bar and guess what? It's not in my environment after logging in. Near as I can tell, environment.d is NEVER used when you log in. At all. It just LOOKS like it's supposed to be. Because the developers are cruel.
1530[21:00:35] <greycat> You might be able to achieve something with /etc/security/pam_env.conf which is *very* different.
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1534[21:04:15] <greycat> the APPLICABILITY section in environment.d(5) talks about which processes actually use the environment.d files, but it's so abstract that it's hard to read... but the short version is "only stuff that starts from systemd --user, not logins"
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1538[21:07:17] <ScottPilgrim> ya this is starting to look pretty hopeless. It seems like this functionality is completely unimplemented
1539[21:08:07] <greycat> I think it's more the case that what *we* want is not what *they* wanted, but they made something that coincidentally *looks* like what we want, except it doesn't actually do what we want.
1540[21:09:40] <greycat> Why they made their thing read /etc/environment is completely beyond my understanding.
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1542[21:11:04] <ScottPilgrim> Makes me wonder what it is actually for. Maybe it merely sets up the environment for systemd itself, and doesn't pass on the results to the login session
1543[21:11:51] <greycat> APPLICABILITY says it sets up the environment for processes that are launched by systemd --user. Their example is gnome-terminal. I have never found a use for system --user, ever. I don't use it, and don't understand what it's intended to be used for.
1544[21:12:00] <greycat> Maybe it's only useful for gnome-terminal.
1545[21:13:22] <ScottPilgrim> probably. I think I am also going to throw my hands up in the air in disgust.
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1547[21:14:41] <Brigo> /etc/environment.d/ works, i have a couple of system variables in my environment setted there.
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1550[21:15:51] <greycat> When you say it "works", what do you mean *precisely*? What do you do, and what do you see?
1551[21:15:51] <Brigo> anyway, why don't you just use .basrch or .bash_profile?
1552[21:15:51] <imMute> greycat: I use systemd-run --user to start ad-hoc "daemons" so I can use it's "nuke everything in the cgroup" for cleanup.
1553[21:16:40] <greycat> Brigo: for me at least, the goal was to set MAIL=$HOME/Maildir/ in every user's environment at login, no matter how they login, or which shell they use. Sounds simple, right?
1554[21:17:05] <Brigo> i have a couple of files: /etc/environment.d/90atk-adaptor.conf and /etc/environment.d/90qt-a11y.conf
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1556[21:18:02] <ScottPilgrim> I have those too. I think they are red herrings. If I put another identically formated file beside them, like 99foo.conf with "FOO=1", it doesn't seem to work
1557[21:18:06] <Brigo> the first has 1 line such: GTK_MODULES=${GTK_MODULES:+$GTK_MODULES:}gail:atk-bridge and the second another: QT_ACCESSIBILITY=1
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1559[21:18:32] <Brigo> i can find both of them with: set |grep GTK_MODULES or QT_ACCESSIBILITY
1560[21:18:40] <greycat> Brigo: and if you login on tty2 or whatever, do you see those variables in your environment?
1561[21:19:10] <ScottPilgrim> I do. When I log in, I see QT_ACCESSIBILITY=1, but I do not see FOO=1
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1563[21:19:46] <greycat> /etc/X11/Xsession.d/90qt-a11y: dbus-update-activation-environment --verbose --systemd QT_ACCESSIBILITY
1564[21:19:53] <Brigo> greycat, i just checked and i don't ...
1565[21:19:55] <greycat> I believe that's relevant.
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1568[21:20:37] <greycat> When I login on tty2, I do *NOT* see QT_ACCESSIBILITY in the environment. I only see it in my X session.
1569[21:20:37] <Brigo> greycat, yes. Didn't get that was the problem.
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1571[21:21:14] <Brigo> so the question is, wheter it is a feature or a bug.
1572[21:21:40] <Brigo> wether*
1573[21:21:54] <greycat> /etc/X11/Xsession.d/90qt-a11y actually sets and exports the variable too, before doing that dbus-update-* thing
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1576[21:22:56] <greycat> it might be a good test to change the value of QT_ACCESSIBILTY in either /etc/environment.d/ or /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ and see which one wins
1577[21:23:11] <greycat> but I'm pretty sure I already know the answer
1578[21:23:26] <kale> hah, eatmydata prevented syncthing in saturating my diskio, keeps me from installing the new syncthing from bullseye
1579[21:24:06] <Brigo> in my system there is no QT_ACCESSIBILITY at all. So, there is that.
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1581[21:25:57] <greycat> mine's coming from at-spi2-core which according to "aptitude why" is because google-chrome-stable depends on libatspi2.0-0 which recommends at-spi2-core
1582[21:25:58] <Brigo> i think i found the problem. It is in /etc/pam.d/login file
1583[21:26:34] <Brigo> it is parsing /etc/environment but not /etc/environment.d
1584[21:26:46] <greycat> because environment.d was invented by systemd
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1586[21:27:01] <greycat> /etc/environment was invented by PAM
1587[21:27:08] <greycat> I do not know why systemd is reading /etc/environment
1588[21:27:17] <Brigo> the comments suggest that file is from etch ...
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1590[21:27:54] <randomuser76489> Hello
1591[21:27:58] <greycat> if you read pam_env(7) you will not find any reference to environment.d
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1594[21:28:32] <greycat> as I said a while back, you may want to look at /etc/security/pam_env.conf which is very different and may or may not help you
1595[21:28:44] <Brigo> greycat, it is PAM that is reading /etc/environment if i understand correctly, i am reading a PAM configuration file.
1596[21:28:55] <greycat> both PAM and systemd read /etc/environment
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1598[21:29:56] <jhutchins> It's completely blank on this system, zero length.
1599[21:30:11] <wyatt8740> that's not too unusual
1600[21:30:16] <ScottPilgrim> The manpage environment.d(5) implies that systemd's environment.d is meant to supercede /etc/environment, and says "For backwards compatibility, a symlink to /etc/environment is installed"
1601[21:30:21] <wyatt8740> mine's one line, and it's a line I added because of a glib problem
1602[21:30:35] <wyatt8740> (also I am using sysvinit these days)
1603[21:30:42] <ScottPilgrim> but it is not even a symlink on my system
1604[21:30:48] <greycat> ScottPilgrim: it's that "implies" part that's the problem. That's what I was complaining about earlier. It *looks* like environment.d is meant to do a thing, but it doesn't do that thing.
1605[21:30:56] <NetTerminalGene> oxek: do you use hw accelon intel hardware with mpv? does it work?
1606[21:31:04] <NetTerminalGene> acceleration*
1607[21:32:09] <NetTerminalGene> oxek: my gpu is intel hd 630
1608[21:32:38] <NetTerminalGene> the gpu that in i5 7400
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1610[21:35:46] <randomuser76489> I am trying to run pyqt5 app with debian and xfce but it does not work I have segmentation fault after starting the app, would you have any clue what is wrong ? After starting the app I have this "Qt: XKEYBOARD extension not present on the X server." "libEGL warning: DRI2: failed to create any config" and lots of "Painter not active" messages
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1839[21:36:46] -debhelper- Channel locked temporarily due to flood, sorry for any inconvenience this may cause :-)
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1896[21:38:16] *** debhelper sets mode: -i
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1919[21:38:35] <Brigo_> we good?
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1930[21:38:45] <ScottPilgrim> greycat: Brigo: So I guess the best advice is to give up and try not to think too hard about how great it would be if this actually worked.
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2012[21:39:36] <Brigo_> ScottPilgrim, greycat, i think i found somthing: read the last comment: replaced-url
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2014[21:39:40] <wyatt8740> randomuser76489: check that you have libxkbcommon-x11-0, xkb-data, and maybe libxkbfile1 installed, to start
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2023[21:40:02] <oxek> NetTerminalGene: I just have hwdec=auto in my mpv.conf. No idea if it does anything.
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2031[21:40:21] <oxek> hardware accelerations really doesn't seem necessary anyway
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2037[21:40:31] <oxek> CPUs are so powerful nowadays
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2086[21:40:44] <Brigo> the part "are not children of systemd" i don't get.
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2088[21:40:44] *** Dragon092_ is now known as Dragon092
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2090[21:40:45] *** debhelper sets mode: +mi
2091[21:40:46] -debhelper- Channel locked temporarily due to flood, sorry for any inconvenience this may cause :-)
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2142[21:42:44] *** kevinsan_ is now known as kevinsan
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2198[21:43:59] <oerheks> don change your nick, during this flood ..
2199[21:44:08] <greycat> Brigo: "of systemd --user" do you mean?
2200[21:44:11] <wyatt8740> heh
2201[21:44:17] <wyatt8740> oxek: i can't decode h.265 at 4K in CPU. So I'm not so sure about HW accel not being needed. But since my monitor's only 1920x1200 I just re-encode and play the smaller file
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2226[21:44:51] <Brigo> greycat, systemd doesn't managing /etc/environment.d in console.
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2230[21:45:03] <greycat> Yes, I've said this a few times.
2231[21:45:12] <Brigo> greycat, it looks like a fancy systemd feature.
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2234[21:45:20] <greycat> environment.d is only read by "systemd --user" which is not part of your login
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2237[21:46:15] <Brigo> greycat, i didn't get that getty is not a systemd's child, i didn't know that can be even posible.
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2242[21:47:02] <greycat> You keep saying "systemd". It's "systemd --user" that's relevant here. "systemd --user" is not part of your login, even if other pieces of systemd *are*.
2243[21:47:22] <greycat> (e.g. systemd-logind)
2244[21:47:24] <randomuser76489> wyatt8740: I don't know if you saw my message with the flood but I was saying yes I have those 3 packages, I have checked it
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2249[21:47:50] <wyatt8740> randomuser76489: is this a remote desktop, or local?
2250[21:47:58] <Brigo> greycat, i thought systemd --user would have been used at some login stage, even from getty.
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2254[21:48:10] <randomuser76489> wyatt8740: it is remote desktop
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2258[21:48:47] <wyatt8740> randomuser76489: ah, I see search results about that. will try to figure it out
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2261[21:49:15] <randomuser76489> wyatt8740: with ubuntu was working fine and now I tried everything from debian min
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2269[21:50:12] <wyatt8740> randomuser76489: set XKB_DEFAULT_RULES=base and try again
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2273[21:51:02] <wyatt8740> my guess is it will only somewhat help because it's just working around the lack of XKEYBOARD extension in your vnc server
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2275[21:51:35] <wyatt8740> replaced-url
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2279[21:52:07] <greycat> By the way, that duplicate QT_ACCESSIBILITY variable definition is an A+ troll.
2280[21:52:55] <wyatt8740> greycat: the one in /etc/environment.d/ you mean, right?
2281[21:53:18] <greycat> that's one of the two, yes
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2283[21:53:27] <randomuser76489> I did "export XKB_DEFAULT_RULES=base" and I tried to run the app again but I have still the same isssues
2284[21:53:57] <wyatt8740> what are the root issues? Did the XKEYBOARD message disappear?
2285[21:54:08] <wyatt8740> sorry it's hard to keep track through that flood
2286[21:54:30] <wyatt8740> greycat: ah the other one in /etc/X11/Xsession.d i presume
2287[21:54:33] <Brigo> greycat, by the way, thanks for your patience :)
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2294[21:56:27] <randomuser76489> no XKEYBOARD message is still there
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2296[21:56:50] <randomuser76489> Qt: XKEYBOARD extension not present on the X server.
2297[21:56:51] <ScottPilgrim> It seems that if you manually run '/usr/lib/systemd/user-environment-generators/30-systemd-environment-d-generator', you get all of your environment.d files (/etc and .config/) parsed and dumped to stdout
2298[21:57:38] <ScottPilgrim> but I don't think any process is invoking it anywhere. Seems like it is meant to be run as a pre-login service somehow but isn't
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2307[22:01:55] <greycat> ScottPilgrim: "seems" -- yes, that's the whole issue here. Everyone thinks it's supposed to do that. It doesn't do that. It's only used by systemd --user.
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2313[22:03:29] <greycat> This makes me curious -- who put the /etc/environment.d/90qt-a11y.conf file there, and what did they think would use it?
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2315[22:03:56] <wyatt8740> well since I don't use systemd I think that's the only place it's getting set on my system
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2318[22:04:19] <ScottPilgrim> probably the qtaccessiblity package maintainers are just as confused as we are
2319[22:04:28] <greycat> that's one possibility
2320[22:05:33] <wyatt8740> one's maybe a leftover from an earlier configuration that they forgot to cull
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2323[22:06:48] <greycat> I wonder whether the variable shows up in Wayland sessions
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2326[22:07:05] <wyatt8740> that's something i cannot answer :|
2327[22:07:10] <greycat> me either
2328[22:07:17] <wyatt8740> but i bet that's relevant to it being in both places
2329[22:07:32] <wyatt8740> it's still easy to forget about wayland for me
2330[22:07:58] <randomuser76489> wyatt8740: would you have anything else you would advise me to try ?
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2332[22:08:31] <wyatt8740> randomuser76489: not really, sorry. I mean, maybe if I did a lot more digging but honestly xkb confuses me on non-remote sessions too
2333[22:08:40] <wyatt8740> you could try x11vnc and use a normal user x session
2334[22:09:17] <wyatt8740> I usually use x11vnc instead of making a new X display for remoting
2335[22:12:13] <randomuser76489> wyatt8740: I was using tightvncserver
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2343[22:15:02] <wyatt8740> i assumed so
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2366[22:25:43] <randomuser76489> wyatt8740: I have finaly found out why the app was crashing !
2367[22:27:04] <wyatt8740> ok
2368[22:27:06] <wyatt8740> what was it
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2373[22:29:10] <randomuser76489> wyatt8740: I have set the framebuffer depth to custom value and for some reason PyQt5 does not like it
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2375[22:29:21] <wyatt8740> heh. that is interesting
2376[22:29:44] <wyatt8740> what depth, out of curiosity
2377[22:30:14] <randomuser76489> I was trying with the min 8
2378[22:31:00] <wyatt8740> ah and you probably should have used 24 or maybe 16
2379[22:31:11] <wyatt8740> right?
2380[22:31:25] <wyatt8740> 8 is sometimes indexed color (like 256 color VGA)
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2383[22:31:34] <wyatt8740> so i can imagine it's not tested in that context
2384[22:33:00] <wyatt8740> possibly 32, but i think that might be excessive
2385[22:33:08] <randomuser76489> firefox-esr works fine with 8
2386[22:33:17] <wyatt8740> yeah firefox isn't qt-based
2387[22:33:25] <randomuser76489> chrome does not
2388[22:33:54] <wyatt8740> chrome/chromium also doesn't run on PowerPC, though, so I don't think interoperability is very high on Google's priority list
2389[22:34:01] <randomuser76489> yes I was testing what was working and what was not with this setup
2390[22:35:09] <wyatt8740> (ff does, or did at least when I built it, for comparison)
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2396[22:42:05] <vezult> anyone know the story behind the AWS whackiness around supported Debian versions for custom AMIs?
2397[22:42:09] <vezult> replaced-url
2398[22:42:22] <vezult> when they say "Debian 6.0.0-6.0.8, 7.0.0-7.8.0, 8.0.0"
2399[22:42:30] <vezult> they really mean it, apparently.
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2401[22:42:53] <vezult> I have to upload my image with a 3.16 kernel from debian 8
2402[22:42:58] <vezult> which doesn't support ena
2403[22:43:24] <greycat> you can run Debian 9 on a 2.6 kernel, but not Debian 10. if that helps you.
2404[22:43:48] <imMute> Wait, you can't run Debian 10 on AWS???
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2406[22:44:23] <greycat> I'm not sure what "ena" is or what vezult's actual issue is, yet.
2407[22:44:42] <vezult> that's amazon'd enhanced networking adapter driver
2408[22:44:51] <vezult> and it's required for networking to work for newer types of images
2409[22:45:19] <vezult> so with the old kernel, I can start up a t2 instance, and reach it remotely
2410[22:45:33] <vezult> if I start up a t3...I can't
2411[22:45:39] <greycat> you can run newer Debian versions on older kernels, up to a point
2412[22:45:51] <vezult> so, I have to start it as a t2, upgrade.., then switch istance type to t3
2413[22:45:59] <vezult> so, I can work around it, it's just a pain
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2416[22:47:14] <vezult> I don't quite understand why they even bother allowing debian 6 kernels, but won't support current debian kernels.
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2418[22:48:35] <vezult> anyway, just wondered if anyone had some insight into the "why" of it.
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2436[23:00:18] <urk> ok, I'm back. I can't remember who I was speaking with about 3 hours ago, but I have a problem installing the stable release of 10.7.0 Different from 10.8.0, I did not get an error mounting /, but this time get an error mounting the EFI partition which is the first partition on the drive. There is nothing installed in the EFI partition, and I set it aside for Windows. Any idea what is wrong? How to get around that error besides
2437[23:00:18] <urk> deleting the partition?
2438[23:02:18] <urk> I am on a Dell XPS 15 7590. This laptop came out just a few months after 10.8.0 stable release was released. Similar to the lack of hardware support, 10.7.0 also doesn't recognize my hardware, but that isn't a big issue since I can go to Dell's website to get the firmware. So far only the testing version of Debian 10.10.0 recognizes my hardware.
2439[23:03:39] <jmcnaught> urk: there is no Debian 10.10, testing will be Debian 11 when it is released. Your laptop was released after Debian 10.0, so it makes sense if some hardware is not supported out of the box.
2440[23:04:10] <sney> urk: you may have better results posting on the debian-boot mailing list if you're committed to doing this with the debian installer.
2441[23:05:10] <urk> jmcnaught> Any idea how to get around the mount error I am getting?
2442[23:05:10] <sney> urk: but also, the installer is really only ideal for normal/basic installations, for anything that gets into specialized/unusual setups like yours, you will likely have a better time installing manually with debootstrap
2443[23:05:11] <jmcnaught> urk: if I recall correctly you are using a complex partitioning scheme with separate /usr, /var, /tmp, etc. Have you attempted doing a simpler installation, possibly using the guided partitioning?
2444[23:06:07] <urk> jmcnaught> The guided partition scheme only offers choices for using the entire drive. This is why I ended up going with the manual, but I don't see how my partitioning scheme would affect anything from being mounted. The problems with 10.7.0 appear to be different than 10.8.0, but both involve mounting issues.
2445[23:06:47] <urk> sney> You mean installing from the net?
2446[23:07:33] <jmcnaught> urk: I am recommending trying it to see if it works, you don't necessarily have to stick with that install.
2447[23:08:08] <sney> urk: by "installing manually with debootstrap" I mean using debootstrap. it is the tool that the debian installer uses under the hood. your use case was most likely not tested by the installer team prior to buster's release, so this could be an edge case bug.
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2449[23:08:52] <sney> but any time *I* have a weird system that the installer doesn't like, the choice between "spend hours fighting with d-i" and "just do it manually from a live env" is an easy one
2450[23:09:37] <urk> sney> I don't think I know what you mean by installing manually with bootstrap. Are you referring to setting up a DHCP?
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2452[23:10:15] <sney> urk: please read the whole word. debootstrap. DEBOOTSTRAP. it is a tool. look at 'man debootstrap' on your system, or any of these links
2453[23:10:17] <sney> !debootstrap
2454[23:10:17] <dpkg> debootstrap can create a basic Debian system from scratch, without apt/dpkg. Useful for installing in a <chroot>. It is key to installing Debian GNU/Linux from a Unix/Linux system. replaced-url
2455[23:10:25] <tosted> where is lumail package in repositories?
2456[23:11:52] <urk> sney> I have no man page for debootstrap because I am talking to you on a Linuxmint machine (Ubuntu Edition), 32 bit, and using this machine to make boot disks for my Debian machine alongside me.
2457[23:12:25] <sney> urk: debootstrap is also used by ubuntu and mint installers, you can 'apt install debootstrap' from that system too. all based-on-debian systems have it.
2458[23:13:08] <sney> tosted: there doesn't appear to be one, also it looks like it's dead upstream
2459[23:13:25] <urk> sney> I'm installing it now. What does it do? How do I use it?
2460[23:13:38] *** Parts: mr_machina (~user@replaced-ip) ("ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.2.1)")
2461[23:13:52] <sney> urk: you see the message from the dpkg bot above? there are two links with instructions.
2462[23:14:22] <tosted> sney: oh..thanks...
2463[23:14:38] <tosted> i ll try neomutt!
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2465[23:15:17] <urk> sney> OK, I'm in the man page, and it shows examples sudo dd if=~/Downloads/debian-10.7.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1 of=/dev/sdc1^Cs=4M
2466[23:15:32] <urk> Am I correct that I need to install my firmware before using debootstrap?
2467[23:16:23] <jmcnaught> urk: replaced-url
2468[23:16:38] <dvs> O_O
2469[23:16:47] <dvs> the iso didn't work?
2470[23:17:14] <urk> dvs> Moi?
2471[23:17:16] <jmcnaught> urk: also if that is the dd command you used to prepare a USB with a Debian ISO then you did it wrong. You should copy to the device (/dev/sdc) not a partition on the device (/dev/sdc*1*)
2472[23:17:23] <dvs> urk: yes
2473[23:18:06] <urk> jmcnaught> I was trying to set aside a separate partition for installing firmware.
2474[23:18:27] <sney> dvs: I'm advising them to install manually because they have a weird convoluted disk layout, and new hardware, and the buster installer doesn't like some combination of it
2475[23:18:29] <dvs> or just use the firmware iso?
2476[23:18:46] <sney> the bullseye installer worked but ofc that isn't acceptable either for some reason
2477[23:18:47] <jmcnaught> urk: Debian hybrid ISOs are already partitioned
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2479[23:18:59] <dvs> oh, the hardware is too new. gotcha
2480[23:19:05] <urk> dvs> 10.8.0 would not mount root /. 10.7.0 would not mount efi file system which is the first partition on the disk. Ironically I had no problem at all installing the testing release of Debian 10
2481[23:19:30] <urk> Everything worked with testing, both hardware recognition as well as mounting of all partitions.
2482[23:20:27] <urk> jmcnaught> I am referring to the partitions (file systems) that are already on my laptop.
2483[23:20:31] <sney> urk: anyway, you don't need to install the firmware before using debootstrap, but you should install it before rebooting into the new system. see jmcnaught's install guide link for the actual steps.
2484[23:21:13] <urk> sney> Well let me see if I can drop to shell to do it. I don't see how it would be of any use if I can't connect out on the internet, and I need firmware in order to connect out.
2485[23:23:24] <sney> urk: well, step 1 is to boot with some kind of livecd that supports your network device and lets you connect to the internet. then you run debootstrap from that livecd.
2486[23:23:24] <jmcnaught> urk: I am referring to the "dd if=debian.iso of=/dev/sdc1" command that you used to prepare copy the ISO to USB. You copied to a partition, which is wrong because the ISO image is already partitioned. You need to copy to a device.
2487[23:23:25] <urk> sney> Perhaps I am missing something. I see an option to drop to a shell on the new system, and this is within the Debian installer.
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2489[23:24:07] <jmcnaught> urk: if you go the deboostrap route you would typically do it from a Live ISO not an installer ISO.
2490[23:24:07] <dvs> urk: oh, if that's the dd command you used, that not correct.
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2494[23:25:35] <urk> dvs> I double checked and it looks like it was burned to /dev/sdc
2495[23:25:42] <urk> I don't see what is wrong with that.
2496[23:25:46] <urk> It passes md5
2497[23:26:04] <urk> I have reburned it.
2498[23:26:19] <sney> urk: right, you're missing information that is in the links about debootstrap. support channels are here to supplement for people who are also reading the manual. "This section explains how to install Debian GNU/Linux from an existing Unix or Linux system." in your case, the 'existing linux system' should be a live environment where your network is up. it doesn't matter what it is.
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2500[23:28:12] <urk> sney> I'm looking at the man page, and examples of debootstrap, but these all require an internet connection.
2501[23:28:52] <sney> urk: as I literally just told you, in your case, the 'existing linux system' should be a live environment where your network is up.
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2505[23:29:33] <urk> OK, I will try to grab the firmware off of Dell's website.
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2507[23:30:20] <imMute> would that even work? does Dell distribute firmware capable of being loaded on a debian system?
2508[23:30:20] <milkt> are you still installing debian
2509[23:30:24] <sney> the easiest place to find the newest linux kernel firmware is here: replaced-url
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2518[23:38:09] <dfcnvt> Greeting, I've edited the file in here (/etc/apt/sources.list) >> replaced-url
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2521[23:38:52] <dfcnvt> Uhh, want to know if I'm not creating the trouble for this edits. I just noticed the domain and some components aren't the same.
2522[23:39:26] <dfcnvt> (Look at the top section for original file and the bottom section that was simply copy/paste from wikidebian)
2523[23:40:48] <Mister00X> dfcnvt: should be ok nevertheless deb.debian.org is a CDN --- I think its called
2524[23:41:20] <imMute> Mister00X: yeah, deb.debian.org is CDN backed. the new version looks fine to me. the old one had everything commented out
2525[23:41:43] <dfcnvt> (note, those commented out is edited by me)
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2529[23:44:31] <jmaher> does anyone know anything about gnome-builder? I would like it to build the git version of evince for me...
2530[23:45:28] <dfcnvt> So, it's superb? No need to further edit in this file? (Note, I've installed a new Debian OS, and I've commented out those original one) replaced-url
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2532[23:47:59] <imMute> dfcnvt: you can remove all the blank lines and the lines that start with #. then it'll look good
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2536[23:49:21] <dfcnvt> Alright -- I think it's all intact.
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2539[23:51:56] <dfcnvt> No issues with # sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade
2540[23:51:57] <dfcnvt> All good.
2541[23:52:00] <dfcnvt> Thanks anyway.
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