• 0[00:00:09] <nvz> yeah, I never had any issues with them at all..
• 1[00:00:20] *** Quits: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2[00:00:40] <nvz> only downside is due to the security of the account you cant use it as a seller or such.. they wont allow those kinds of spontaneous deductions that aren't pre-approved
• 3[00:01:01] *** Quits: [Brain] (~brain@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 4[00:01:19] <nvz> even the checks have to be pre-authorized.. you tell them the amount and check number, they set aside the funds, and give you an auth code to write on the check.. so the payee can verify the funds are available
• 5[00:01:27] *** Joins: [Brain] (~brain@replaced-ip)
• 6[00:01:36] <Andy9> nvz when you buy something above preset limit (like mine is set to $500) they will immediately call your cell to confirm
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• 8[00:01:48] * martigan sits back and laughs at other problems that could be solved with a privacy.com card
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• 11[00:02:19] <nvz> privacy.com is a fairly new thing.. and idk about their costs.. but I do the same crap with bluebird and it costs me absolutely nothing
• 12[00:03:22] *** Quits: ikus060 (~ikus060@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 13[00:03:24] <Andy9> nvz im definitly gonna look it up ;) martigan - that privacy.com looks like another paypal
• 14[00:03:52] <martigan> There is no cost. And they have been around for 3-4 years now. I have been using them for every single online transaction for about a year now without any issues. Sites that you need to give a debit card for a free trial for 30 days you can generate a new card and then close it right away without having to worry about getting charged again.
• 15[00:04:15] *** Quits: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 16[00:04:23] <Andy9> might give them a try when im gonna order something from ebay next time
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• 20[00:05:26] <nvz> I've used the family accounts on bluebird the same way for over a decade.. they let you creat family accounts in any name.. since they can only get money from the main account it satisfies the legal aspect as its still tied to your SSN, so the name of the family accounts need not be verified
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• 22[00:05:54] <Andy9> i also bought few times pre-paid Master Card CC for ebay, but twice i left with few bucks on them that i didn't use so it wasn't best idea
• 23[00:06:31] <martigan> I'll have to look into that one too. Privacy.com cards will verify agains any billing address and name also. You can use 1234 main street, john smith.
• 24[00:07:12] <martigan> Andy9 those Vanilla Visa's are a good option I use too for that kind of stuff before I found privacy.com.
• 25[00:08:05] <Andy9> martigan but if u use fake address u might get into trouble, thats exactly what happened to me first time i used prepaid MC; i set up fake name and address and they sent batteries i ordered from china to that fake address instead of my shipping address on ebay lol
• 26[00:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1537
• 27[00:09:05] <martigan> Ahh, ya I don't buy from ebay. I'm not sure about that.
• 28[00:10:11] <martigan> You could probably get your money back if the tracking shows delivered to an address other than whats on your shipping on the order.
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• 31[00:12:02] <martigan> We just completly hijacked the debain support channel for an hour. lol Sorry everyone.
• 32[00:12:19] <Andy9> martigan it was few bucks only for 2 of some weird type batteries, i didn't bother but yeah i could i guess
• 33[00:12:25] <Andy9> lol true :)
• 34[00:12:47] *** Joins: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip)
• 35[00:13:09] <Andy9> but no one asked any support questions in that time so no harm done :)
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• 37[00:14:55] <martigan> There was one person who said "Pardon" or something like that but "Dont ask to ask, just ask" lol
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• 39[00:15:24] <Andy9> maybe he thought he's in a #payments chan? ;)
• 40[00:15:42] <humpled> bloomin bitcoins everywhere
• 41[00:15:54] * martigan just joined #payments chan
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• 43[00:15:59] <Andy9> ha ha
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• 50[00:20:46] <Andy9> has anyone tried putting debian on older Mac?
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• 52[00:20:59] <Andy9> with those Motorola chips?
• 53[00:21:02] <Unplesantry> wahapen to virualbox
• 54[00:21:06] <dvs> ppc?
• 55[00:21:15] <Andy9> dvs yes
• 56[00:21:31] <nvz> Andy9: 32bit ppc support was dropped a while back
• 57[00:21:35] <dvs> Andy9, I think PPC support was taken out
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• 59[00:21:42] <nvz> !ppc
• 60[00:21:42] <dpkg> PowerPC is a <RISC> architecture (replaced-url
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• 62[00:21:58] <Andy9> dvs but older distro would work, right?
• 63[00:22:00] *** Parts: hypn01 (~h@replaced-ip) ()
• 64[00:22:07] <nvz> ppc64 is still supported AFAIK but PPC 32bit was dropped a long time ago
• 65[00:22:34] <Andy9> nvz i'm sure my dad's very old mac is 32-bit
• 66[00:22:39] <dvs> Andy9, sure. Older versions would work but there won't be any support for it.
• 67[00:23:08] <Andy9> forget it then. I can't do it on my own without help :)
• 68[00:23:12] <Andy9> thx dvs
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• 75[00:28:12] <Andy9> i'm just thinking i set up debian wrong. i should have set another partition for root, for future upgrades
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• 77[00:28:56] <dvs> root?
• 78[00:28:58] <Unplesantry> support
• 79[00:29:02] <Unplesantry> lol
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• 81[00:29:20] <Unplesantry> like mental support
• 82[00:29:28] <Unplesantry> ?
• 83[00:29:34] <Andy9> i mean empty partition for system when new version comes
• 84[00:30:02] *** Quits: dreamon (~dreamon@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 85[00:30:08] <Andy9> that way i'd install new version to that "second root" and just add it to grub
• 86[00:30:20] <Unplesantry> yea
• 87[00:30:21] <annadane> Unplesantry, virtualbox is gone in buster because oracle won't... something. forget the reason. they won't give security support for it, or something
• 88[00:30:33] <annadane> hang on. lol
• 89[00:30:48] <Unplesantry> Andy9: make partition for each os
• 90[00:30:50] <Andy9> in case its fucked up or i won't like i just revert grub to the previous "original root" partition, i don't know am i clear
• 91[00:30:56] <dvs> Andy9, you can upgrade over an existing installation. Just make sure to back it up before upgrading.
• 92[00:31:00] <annadane> judd: bug 794466
• 93[00:31:02] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 94[00:31:06] <annadane> Unplesantry, ^
• 95[00:31:27] <Unplesantry> with linux u can even move os to a diff partition
• 96[00:31:47] <Andy9> dvs backing up is too time consuming, having separate "root" partitions for each version is much faster
• 97[00:31:54] <dvs> ha!
• 98[00:31:59] <dvs> That's asking for trouble
• 99[00:32:05] <Andy9> is it?
• 100[00:32:26] <dvs> absolutely
• 101[00:32:49] *** Quits: solarnetone (~scott@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 102[00:32:59] <dvs> The partitions that are shared may be upgraded to the new version.
• 103[00:33:03] <annadane> but is it?!
• 104[00:33:13] *** Quits: Tom-_ (tomg@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 105[00:33:51] <Andy9> you probly know better; i'm just talking from windows user point of view. That's how i set up windozes on every box (2 windozes, second one is minimal and invisible to the the "main one", but selectable in boot loader - so if anything goes wrong with "main windoze" i boot to the second one)
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• 111[00:37:04] <Andy9> laugh it out guys, but i already made snapshot of debian's partitions with windows ;)
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• 114[00:38:48] <CaptainDusty> annadane: I thought you just needed non-free?
• 115[00:38:57] *** Joins: solarnetone (~scott@replaced-ip)
• 116[00:39:07] <annadane> ,v virtualbox
• 117[00:39:08] <CaptainDusty> annadane: Oooh! lol @ 794466
• 118[00:39:09] <judd> Package: virtualbox on amd64 -- jessie/contrib: 4.3.36-dfsg-1+deb8u1; jessie-security/contrib: 4.3.36-dfsg-1+deb8u1; stretch-backports/contrib: 5.2.24-dfsg-4~bpo9+1; sid/contrib: 6.0.10-dfsg-4
• 119[00:39:17] <annadane> yeah, nope, sorry
• 120[00:39:23] <CaptainDusty> Nice.
• 121[00:39:34] <annadane> one rich asshole called larry ellison
• 122[00:39:37] *** Quits: elpelado (~elpelado@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 123[00:39:51] <Andy9> ?
• 124[00:40:14] <annadane> oracle is headed by larry ellison and has a rich tradition of killing everything they acquire
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• 127[00:40:39] <annadane> so O.R.A.C.L.E = One Rich Asshole Called Larry Ellison
• 128[00:40:40] <Andy9> oh ic
• 129[00:41:04] <Andy9> sounds like Google's daddy lol
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• 131[00:41:37] <Unplesantry> oracle is that woman from the matrix
• 132[00:41:56] <Unplesantry> she make the cookies
• 133[00:42:15] <Andy9> yea but she didnt have any for Neo
• 134[00:42:22] <raidensnake> any idea why a fake kms driver stops x from starting properly?
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• 137[00:43:10] <raidensnake> it just gives me a blank screen
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• 142[00:44:53] <Andy9> Time to walk out my doggie ;) have a good one every1
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• 150[00:49:27] <martigan> Have a good one!
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• 178[01:12:42] <spectral_> i have been having some issues installing steam, used a flatpak thing but then could not update it and now i am having issues installing the deb file, i prefer to figure stuff out myself cause asking feels a little weird but i feel like theres some fundamental misunderstanding about something idk
• 179[01:13:27] <spectral_> root@hurrgh:/home/spectre# dpkg -i steam_latest.deb
• 180[01:13:27] <spectral_> dpkg: warning: 'ldconfig' not found in PATH or not executable
• 181[01:13:27] <spectral_> dpkg: warning: 'start-stop-daemon' not found in PATH or not executable
• 182[01:13:27] <spectral_> dpkg: error: 2 expected programs not found in PATH or not executable
• 183[01:13:27] <spectral_> Note: root's PATH should usually contain /usr/local/sbin, /usr/sbin and /sbin
• 184[01:13:27] *** spectral_ was kicked by debhelper (flood)
• 185[01:13:28] <dpkg> spectral_: That isn't enough detail, post the whole output to a pastebin (/msg dpkg pastebin).
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• 188[01:14:54] <spectral_> i am sorry about that i thought it would post as one message i was pasting it
• 189[01:16:08] <spectral_> i did not read the startup thing well wont do that again
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• 198[01:20:22] <humpled> ldconfig is /sbin/ldconfig, and comes with the libc-bin package, seems likely you would have that
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• 201[01:23:17] <annadane> well okay, two different things
• 202[01:23:30] <annadane> 1) to access sbin in buster, use su - instead of su
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• 205[01:23:54] <annadane> 2) pick one method... if you're having issues installing steam via apt, address those issues first instead of trying 3 different solutions
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• 207[01:24:31] <annadane> "hi debian support channel, i installed steam via the repository and am having xyz issues, can anyone help?"
• 208[01:25:03] *** Quits: him-cesjf (~cesjf@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 209[01:25:25] <nvz> spectral_: these are not debian issues
• 210[01:25:42] *** Quits: diniwed (~gavron@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 211[01:25:46] <annadane> flatpak is probably fine, but you're trusting flatpak which is a level of abstraction over just using what debian provides. and dpkg -i <package>.deb is just a workaround hack
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• 216[01:27:03] <annadane> they're all workaround hacks until you can actually ascertain that there's no other options once you've tried the direct solution
• 217[01:27:03] <nvz> ,v steam
• 218[01:27:03] <judd> No package named 'steam' was found in amd64.
• 219[01:27:10] <nvz> ,v steam --arch i386
• 220[01:27:11] <judd> Package: steam on i386 -- jessie/non-free: 1.0.0.49-1; stretch/non-free: 1.0.0.54-2; buster/non-free: 1.0.0.59-4; bullseye/non-free: 1.0.0.61-2; sid/non-free: 1.0.0.61-2
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• 223[01:27:42] <nvz> what you're doing is installing crap that wasnt packaged in debian and is looking for crap not in debian
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• 226[01:28:15] <nvz> the buster version is a bit behind, but those bullseye/sid versions are the latest available right now
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• 262[01:54:21] <martigan> Switch back to Stretch just for Virtual box or caugh up the money for VMWare? RIP VB on Debian?
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• 264[01:55:07] <jmcnaught> Or use virt-manager and libvirt
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• 266[01:56:56] <martigan> thx, ill check it out.
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• 269[01:59:06] <spectral_> i'll try to figure out flatpak, might be better off if i cant anyway ill waste less time haha
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• 275[02:02:33] <mg17> Dumped everything for deb10
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• 284[02:11:46] <nvz> or just install virtualbox.. from upstream @.@
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• 3095[03:15:15] -debhelper- Channel locked temporarily due to flood, sorry for any inconvenience this may cause :-)
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• 3145[03:18:09] <annadane> lol
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• 3150[03:18:43] <dvs> you did it!
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• 3280[03:55:58] <warsoul> hello guys
• 3281[03:56:02] <warsoul> i installed debian 10
• 3282[03:56:13] <warsoul> but i dont have no internet connection
• 3283[03:57:21] <f82k> Need more info. What type of install? full, minimal?
• 3284[03:57:36] <f82k> How do you connect to thew internet?
• 3285[03:57:51] <warsoul> debian-live-10.0.0-amd64-cinnamon
• 3286[03:57:56] <warsoul> 2.5gb
• 3287[03:58:12] <f82k> Ethernet or wireless?
• 3288[03:58:19] *** Joins: diniwed (~gavron@replaced-ip)
• 3289[03:58:25] <warsoul> none
• 3290[03:58:33] <warsoul> wireless
• 3291[03:58:36] <warsoul> sorry
• 3292[03:58:58] <f82k> And it's not seeing the adatper?
• 3293[03:59:01] <f82k> adapter?*
• 3294[03:59:08] <warsoul> but now when install finish
• 3295[03:59:15] <warsoul> on network is just ethernet
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• 3299[04:00:20] <f82k> What interfaces show up if you type ip link show?
• 3300[04:00:34] *** Quits: akko (~gentoo@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.5)
• 3301[04:00:43] <warsoul> i havent done that yet
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• 3306[04:04:44] <warsoul> ?
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• 3309[04:07:43] <f82k> then do it and tell me?
• 3310[04:08:30] <warsoul> ok
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• 3317[04:10:24] <mikeymop> can someone offer lvm advice?
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• 3328[04:22:23] <wsoul> hi is me warsoul
• 3329[04:22:27] <wsoul> i did ip link
• 3330[04:22:42] <wsoul> sorry took some time i have to start another pc
• 3331[04:22:57] <wsoul> what info you guys need of ip link
• 3332[04:22:58] <wsoul> ?
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• 3343[04:31:17] <wsoul> hello
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• 3347[04:34:21] <raidensnake> shame mesa 19 can't be ported to buster as ithe arm version works on the pi 4.
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• 3354[04:38:52] <warsoul`> F82k done
• 3355[04:38:55] <warsoul`> What info you need?
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• 3362[04:42:38] <warsoul`> No ethernet or wifi connection available
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• 3365[04:44:13] <warsoul`> Please need help
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• 3371[04:46:47] <warsoul> hello
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• 3377[04:56:43] <annadane> warsoul, possible you need the non free firmware image
• 3378[04:56:47] <annadane> if it's wireless internet
• 3379[04:57:00] <annadane> do you want the live image or the regular installer image?
• 3380[04:57:19] <kirk781> Ethernet connection is automatically detected on Debian[or for that fact, on almost any distro]
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• 3383[05:02:44] <SerajewelKS> oh boy, owncloud isn't compatible with 7.3, but the 7.0 redis module isn't available in buster for $REASON
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• 3385[05:03:04] <SerajewelKS> or, rather, the package is called php-redis which means that it was automatically upgraded to the package that provides the 7.3 module
• 3386[05:03:20] <SerajewelKS> despite other packages using php$VERISION-$EXTNAME
• 3387[05:03:36] *** Quits: ChmEarl (~chmearl@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
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• 3389[05:04:18] *** Joins: timur_davletshin (~timur_dav@replaced-ip)
• 3390[05:04:44] <SerajewelKS> and apcu is the same way -_-
• 3391[05:05:02] *** Joins: cerenous (~cerenous@replaced-ip)
• 3392[05:05:14] <SerajewelKS> so i guess no memcache for owncloud
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• 3395[05:07:00] <SerajewelKS> apparently doesn't matter anyway since it requires php-curl and php7.0-curl can't be installed on buster with 7.3 and libcurl4 :/
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• 3397[05:07:22] *** Joins: _Cute_Kitty_ (c095f5ad@replaced-ip)
• 3398[05:08:23] <_Cute_Kitty_> hi guys, i'm having trouble connecting to my university wpa2 enterprise network via WICD network manager
• 3399[05:08:34] *** Joins: mvaenskae (~mvaenskae@replaced-ip)
• 3400[05:08:46] <_Cute_Kitty_> first, it was saying bad password, but now it's just saying "done connecting," like it takes my password
• 3401[05:08:53] <_Cute_Kitty_> but it still isn't connected and internet doesn't work
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• 3407[05:14:16] <_Cute_Kitty_> i also messed up my templates doing that configuring, how do i reset them?
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• 3426[05:28:27] <_Cute_Kitty_> if i purge wicd will that remove /etc/wicd/templates?
• 3427[05:28:45] <_Cute_Kitty_> so that when i reinstall it everything will go back to stock?
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• 3430[05:30:10] <dvs> _Cute_Kitty_, I thought "apt --reinstall install wicd" would reset the package.
• 3431[05:30:55] *** Quits: _till_ (~till@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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• 3434[05:32:06] *** Quits: semeion (~semeion@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 3435[05:32:11] <_Cute_Kitty_> ok got it.
• 3436[05:32:29] <_Cute_Kitty_> dvs: what is the correct setting for encryption for using wicd to connect to a wpa2 enterprise network?
• 3437[05:32:45] <_Cute_Kitty_> i don't have a domain or a ca cert, i just have my email and password
• 3438[05:32:48] <dvs> _Cute_Kitty_, I don't use wicd
• 3439[05:32:58] *** Joins: leandrovianna__ (~leandrovi@replaced-ip)
• 3440[05:32:59] <_Cute_Kitty_> do you know a better manager to use for debian?
• 3441[05:33:02] <_Cute_Kitty_> i have xfce too btw
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• 3443[05:33:15] *** Joins: semeion (~semeion@replaced-ip)
• 3444[05:33:25] <_Cute_Kitty_> i just need to connect to the wifi here
• 3445[05:34:06] *** Quits: torbo (~user@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3446[05:34:46] <scrps> _Cute_Kitty_: if my memory serves me right WPA2 enterprise uses radius which requires a certificate to complete the authentication, wont work with just a user/pass
• 3447[05:35:00] <maxrazer> does anyone know how to set a default application for a URL protocol?
• 3448[05:35:00] *** Quits: SolidHal (~SolidHal@replaced-ip##) (Quit: The Lounge - ##replaced-url
• 3449[05:35:17] <_Cute_Kitty_> but it works on windows 10 without one srcps: and on iphone. i punch in my user/pass and i'm in
• 3450[05:36:48] <scrps> _Cute_Kitty_: I stand corrected it can just use user/pass, it has to be set to either peap or eap
• 3451[05:37:34] <_Cute_Kitty_> ok
• 3452[05:37:45] <de-facto> is there a way to install mt76 drivers on debian? dkms something?
• 3453[05:38:03] <_Cute_Kitty_> so wpa2 peap nodomain?
• 3454[05:38:09] *** Joins: citypw (~citypw@replaced-ip)
• 3455[05:38:38] <scrps> _Cute_Kitty_: could try it
• 3456[05:38:47] <_Cute_Kitty_> scrps: what network manager would you recommend
• 3457[05:38:55] <_Cute_Kitty_> i have wicd uninstalled right now
• 3458[05:39:07] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3459[05:39:24] <_Cute_Kitty_> the only ones i know of are gnome network manager and wicd
• 3460[05:40:11] <Abdullah> _Cute_Kitty_: systemd-networkd I use for now
• 3461[05:40:26] <_Cute_Kitty_> can that connect to wpa2 eneterprise?
• 3462[05:40:42] <Abdullah> I think yeah it can
• 3463[05:42:07] <scrps> _Cute_Kitty_: I just use wpa_supplicant, you might want to look to see if your university's IT dept has the settings listed on a site somewhere
• 3464[05:43:02] <Abdullah> scrps: using wpa_supplicant for everything networking related?
• 3465[05:44:08] <_Cute_Kitty_> found an easier way to connect
• 3466[05:44:14] <scrps> Abdullah: no lol just for wireless
• 3467[05:45:44] <_Cute_Kitty_> default network-manager package does just what i need
• 3468[05:45:44] <Abdullah> scrps: what do you use for dns scrps ? I mena is your wireless has nameserver configuration?
• 3469[05:46:02] <Abdullah> _Cute_Kitty_: so use it.
• 3470[05:46:09] <_Cute_Kitty_> yes
• 3471[05:46:09] <_Cute_Kitty_> \
• 3472[05:46:18] <_Cute_Kitty_> i'm going to use it thanks
• 3473[05:46:35] *** Joins: Gazooo (~Gazooo@replaced-ip)
• 3474[05:46:36] <_Cute_Kitty_> is it just sudo apt-get install network-manager or gnome-network-manager
• 3475[05:46:38] <_Cute_Kitty_> what's the difference?
• 3476[05:47:18] *** Quits: Gazooo (~Gazooo@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 3477[05:48:03] <coruja> cli vs gui interface (and it's network-manager-gnome)
• 3478[05:48:23] <_Cute_Kitty_> i can't install network-manager! because i don't have internet on my raspberry pi
• 3479[05:48:42] <_Cute_Kitty_> ethernet doesn't work either since i don't have any network manager
• 3480[05:48:45] <nvz> well network-manager is a package, and gnome-network-manager isn't
• 3481[05:48:53] <nvz> network-manager-gnome however is
• 3482[05:48:58] <nvz> ,i network-manager-gnome
• 3483[05:48:59] <judd> Package network-manager-gnome (gnome, optional) in buster/amd64: network management framework (GNOME frontend). Version: 1.8.20-1.1; Size: 1005.5k; Installed: 5921k; Homepage: replaced-url
• 3484[05:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1435
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• 3486[05:49:09] <_Cute_Kitty_> so what do i do with that package?
• 3487[05:49:32] <nvz> you install it, and it'll put an icon into any panel that has a notification area
• 3488[05:49:44] <nvz> like mate-panel, gnome-panel, etc
• 3489[05:49:53] <_Cute_Kitty_> you mean network-manager-applet
• 3490[05:49:59] *** Parts: wingede (~wingede@replaced-ip) ("WeeChat 2.5")
• 3491[05:50:03] <nvz> where are you getting this crap?
• 3492[05:50:08] <nvz> ,i network-manager-applet
• 3493[05:50:09] <_Cute_Kitty_> what crap
• 3494[05:50:09] <judd> No package named 'network-manager-applet' was found in buster/amd64.
• 3495[05:50:15] <nvz> you are making up package names
• 3496[05:50:17] <_Cute_Kitty_> the link above
• 3497[05:50:24] <_Cute_Kitty_> replaced-url
• 3498[05:50:29] *** Joins: bryceml (~bryceml@replaced-ip)
• 3499[05:50:40] <nvz> are you even using debian?
• 3500[05:50:43] <_Cute_Kitty_> yes
• 3501[05:50:48] <nvz> do you have any clue at all how the package manager works?
• 3502[05:50:53] <_Cute_Kitty_> no
• 3503[05:50:58] <_Cute_Kitty_> it doesn't
• 3504[05:51:01] <_Cute_Kitty_> without internet :)
• 3505[05:51:02] *** Joins: hamechi (~hamechi@replaced-ip)
• 3506[05:51:21] <warsoul> I don't have internet either
• 3507[05:51:23] <nvz> and let me guess you installed LXDE or LXQT and have wicd
• 3508[05:51:34] <_Cute_Kitty_> i did have wicd, and i don't have lxde
• 3509[05:51:36] <_Cute_Kitty_> i use xfce
• 3510[05:51:43] <_Cute_Kitty_> i have nothing right now
• 3511[05:52:03] <nvz> wicd is total shit.. it is the most likely to insure you dont get connected
• 3512[05:52:17] <_Cute_Kitty_> thanks it's uninstalled though so not helpful
• 3513[05:52:31] <nvz> apt install network-manager-gnome
• 3514[05:52:49] <_Cute_Kitty_> that would be great but i'm plugged into ethernet now and it's not working
• 3515[05:53:10] <_Cute_Kitty_> unable to fetch archives
• 3516[05:53:13] <nvz> _Cute_Kitty_: dhclient e<tab>
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• 3519[05:53:40] <_Cute_Kitty_> dhclient command not found
• 3520[05:53:53] <nvz> yeah you have to be root
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• 3522[05:54:32] <_Cute_Kitty_> too few arguments
• 3523[05:54:32] <alkisg> _Cute_Kitty_: you need to have /sbin in your path to run dhclient
• 3524[05:54:35] <nvz> ip a
• 3525[05:54:38] <nvz> 2: enp0s25: <NO-CARRIER,BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP> mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast state DOWN group default qlen 1000
• 3526[05:54:41] <nvz> should have a line like that
• 3527[05:54:51] <_Cute_Kitty_> yes
• 3528[05:55:02] <nvz> then do sudo dhclient enp0s25
• 3529[05:55:07] <nvz> or whatever your interface name is
• 3530[05:55:20] <_Cute_Kitty_> working
• 3531[05:55:33] <nvz> we cleverly made the interface names "predictable" so we can't predict what they'll be for support purposes :P
• 3532[05:55:34] <_Cute_Kitty_> thanks, i'll download network-manager-gnome now
• 3533[05:55:36] <_Cute_Kitty_> thank you for your help
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• 3535[05:56:31] <nvz> setting predictable names as the default was a dumb idea..
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• 3537[05:57:02] <_Cute_Kitty_> i didn't make debian
• 3538[05:57:07] <nvz> it breaks many drivers/adapters for one thing, it makes support more difficult, all for a feature only useful for servers with more than one nick active for bridges
• 3539[05:57:32] <_Cute_Kitty_> i'll ping tinus lorvald real quick and see why that is
• 3540[05:57:33] <nvz> and people doing that should know how to enable it if they wanted it
• 3541[05:58:00] <nvz> Linus had little to do with it.. Linus has little at all to do with what debian does
• 3542[05:58:15] <nvz> any code he wrote or managed has been heavily patched
• 3543[05:58:38] <_Cute_Kitty_> lol. i know that. in fact i just watched a video where he said he never used debian since 2007 when it was too hard to install
• 3544[05:58:58] <nvz> You wanna learn a Debian Significant name or two.. Chris Lamby, project lead.. Michael Biebl Debian systemd maintainer.. etc
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• 3547[06:00:32] <coruja> it's the job of a distributor to patch linux and other software to fit the distribution's needs, not tease linus or lennart or whoever
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• 3549[06:00:57] <_Cute_Kitty_> linus roarvald
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• 3551[06:02:35] <_Cute_Kitty_> the network manager applet in my notification area says :wifi networks,device not managed
• 3552[06:02:40] <_Cute_Kitty_> why is that?
• 3553[06:03:12] <nvz> _Cute_Kitty_: have you fooled with files like /etc/network/interfaces ?
• 3554[06:03:18] <_Cute_Kitty_> probably
• 3555[06:03:27] <nvz> _Cute_Kitty_: well then you should probably unfool with them
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• 3558[06:04:07] <nvz> _Cute_Kitty_: any interface declared in /etc/network/interfaces or an /etc/network/interfaces.d/ file will be ignored by network-manager and considered already managed
• 3559[06:04:18] <_Cute_Kitty_> how do i do that. when i open "advanced" network configuration i can see my interfaces
• 3560[06:04:22] <_Cute_Kitty_> i created one with wifi already
• 3561[06:04:39] <_Cute_Kitty_> but on my other debian install the icon in the notification area, when i click on it, shows all networks available
• 3562[06:05:14] * nvz has other things to do, is not going to repeat the same things over and over
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• 3565[06:05:48] <_Cute_Kitty_> thanks for the help
• 3566[06:06:40] <nvz> _Cute_Kitty_: if that file or any files in that directory I mentioned speak of anything other than the interface lo, then thats why they dont work
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• 3568[06:07:01] <nvz> network-manager won't touch managed interfaces that are configured elsewhere
• 3569[06:07:54] <_Cute_Kitty_> ok let me check that directory
• 3570[06:08:27] <_Cute_Kitty_> in /etc/network/ i have a interfaces.d folder and an interfaces file
• 3571[06:08:40] <_Cute_Kitty_> there is nothing in the interfaces.d folder
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• 3574[06:11:10] <nvz> ant the interfaces file?
• 3575[06:11:43] <_Cute_Kitty_> i nanoed this file /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf and changed managed from false to true
• 3576[06:11:48] <_Cute_Kitty_> now i'm rebooting
• 3577[06:12:10] <_Cute_Kitty_> now it just says device not ready instead of device not managede
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• 3579[06:13:50] <_Cute_Kitty_> the interfaces file contents are here nvz: paste.debian.net/1096907
• 3580[06:14:33] <_Cute_Kitty_> also, i'm sorry my typing is clunky, i have a huge bandaid on my first finger that's preventing me from typing very well
• 3581[06:15:36] <_Cute_Kitty_> so, should the file /etc/networkmanager/networkmanager.conf have the tab [ifupdown] managed=true or false?
• 3582[06:15:47] <_Cute_Kitty_> it was set to false before, but i changed it to true as mentioned above
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• 3584[06:16:26] <nvz> I have used network manager probably a decade and never once looked at or touched that file
• 3585[06:16:33] <_Cute_Kitty_> oh
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• 3587[06:16:49] <nvz> but maybe I could hire the "an den" lady to keep saying "and den interfaces file..?"
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• 3593[06:25:04] <alkisg> I installed using debian-live-10.0.0-amd64-mate+nonfree.iso. It needed 10GB, which I thought was a lot. Looking at packages, I see that it installed a lot of unnecessary arm stuff, e.g. libnewlib-arm-none-eabi alone needs more than 1GB.
• 3594[06:25:04] <alkisg> My question is, would installing via the text installer and selecting the mate desktop result in less packages?
• 3595[06:25:43] <chrystian> Hi guys I'm trying to power on numlock on splash screen someone can guideme?
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• 3598[06:30:27] <Oksana> How will my network interfaces survive if I have only ifup-lo and ifup-enp0s3 and ifconfig shows additionally enp0s8 which cannot be controlled with ifup?
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• 3601[06:32:06] <BazookaTooth> alkisg: text installer is always going be much less unwanted stuff
• 3602[06:32:13] <nvz> alkisg: installing with an installer image rather than a live image would make a difference
• 3603[06:32:40] <nvz> the live results in an install twice the size with a bunch of lanaguage packs and such
• 3604[06:32:44] <alkisg> BazookaTooth, nvz, thank you guys, I thought they would both rely on the same "tasks"; I guess I'll reinstall using the text installer
• 3605[06:33:45] <BazookaTooth> alkisg: meta packages are a thing but just pick what you need and you won't grab anything else but the needed deps
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• 3616[06:44:17] <alkisg> I'm trying to decide which iso to download for a buster/mate/non-free-firmware installation.
• 3617[06:44:17] <alkisg> Question1: for the non-free part, I can just `apt install firmware-linux-nonfree` later, right? Or do the non-free CDs preinstall more firmware that I might need and can't find via apt? (the installation will be cloned to multiple computers)
• 3618[06:44:17] <alkisg> Question2: due to my networking, it'll be much faster for me to download a big iso rather than use the netinstaller. Which big iso has mate, or at least most of the packages that a mate installation will need?
• 3619[06:44:57] * alkisg is looking at replaced-url
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• 3623[06:50:51] <Oksana> chrystian: The login screen? replaced-url
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• 3625[06:52:58] <chrystian> Thanks Oksana I used that solution but doesn't worked on Debian 10
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• 3629[06:57:19] <coruja> alkisg, there's also replaced-url
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• 3633[07:00:52] <coruja> alkisg, and replaced-url
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• 3635[07:01:57] <alkisg> Thank you coruja, looking...
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• 3646[07:17:56] <alkisg> Yey, the text installer didn't end up having ibus, fcitx etc etc installed; the keyboard layout was configured just fine :)
• 3647[07:18:45] <alkisg> And needed 4 GB instead of 10 GB. Much better.
• 3648[07:19:43] *** Joins: furaidi (~quassel@replaced-ip)
• 3649[07:20:05] <alkisg> !sources.list
• 3650[07:20:05] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has three lines: "deb replaced-url
• 3651[07:20:16] <alkisg> !non-free
• 3652[07:20:16] <dpkg> [non-free] a component which contains software that does not comply with the <DFSG>. To add non-free packages to your packages index, ask me about <non-free sources>. To see which non-free packages are installed ask me about <non-free list>.
• 3653[07:20:22] *** Joins: mibo (~mibo@replaced-ip)
• 3654[07:20:23] <alkisg> !non-free sources
• 3655[07:20:23] <dpkg> Edit /etc/apt/sources.list, ensure that the two main Debian mirror lines end with "main contrib non-free" rather than just "main", then «apt-get update». But bear in mind that you'll be installing <non-free> software. These may have onerous terms; check the licenses. See also <sources.list>.
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• 3658[07:22:57] <alkisg> "three main Debian mirror lines"; replaced-url
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• 3664[07:25:22] <ddelony> Is there a specific channel for discussing Running Debian on Crostini on Chrome OS?
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• 3677[07:35:35] <starsnet> hi all)
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• 3679[07:36:44] <starsnet> Will programs from debian 9 work on debian 8 ?
• 3680[07:37:45] <alkisg> starsnet: normally no, they'll have different dependencies; why don't you want to upgrade debian instead?
• 3681[07:38:07] <starsnet> i cant)
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• 3683[07:38:22] <starsnet> upgrade. i have debian8 on mips
• 3684[07:38:50] <starsnet> and can not find packages for deb8ian (
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• 3687[07:42:43] <themill> mips is a supported architecture in stretch
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• 3691[07:45:54] <warsoul> i have cinnamon installed
• 3692[07:46:05] <warsoul> when i click menu i dont see terminal
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• 3695[07:47:58] <starsnet> themill: i know. but i havn'e strech for my board (mips ci 20 )
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• 3697[07:48:07] <starsnet> havn't
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• 3700[07:50:44] <wroathe> The libmariadb package in buster only includes a shared object, libmariadb.so, but the package in stretch also includes the static object, libmariadb.a. Does anyone know why they're no longer packaging the static object?
• 3701[07:51:33] <wroathe> Furthermore, dpkg -S libmariadb.a doesn't print any results
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• 3703[07:54:11] <themill> it's pretty unusual to ship static objects in Debian packages at all -- that is perhaps relevant
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• 3707[07:54:37] <warsoul> is multilangual terminal the only terminal?
• 3708[07:54:42] <warsoul> im using cinnamon
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• 3710[07:54:51] <warsoul> as desktop envirorment
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• 3712[07:56:06] <wroathe> themill: Ah, so they might have fixed the bug then
• 3713[07:56:13] <wroathe> I'm asking over at #maria
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• 3715[07:57:24] <wroathe> Is there an easier way to get the static object than pulling down the sources and compiling it from scratch?
• 3716[07:57:27] <wroathe> window 5
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• 3720[08:00:49] <wroathe> My use-case is that I'm trying to compile a binary statically for a docker image, and then the plan is to remove all of the installed libraries after it compiles
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• 3722[08:03:32] <hsny> last week i've upgraded from stretch to buster. since then my system went slow, it crashes all day long, I can't even start Brackets or any text editor, it's been a bad week! how should i go about troubleshooting it? thanks
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• 3761[08:37:44] <starsnet> can i use file packages.gz from replaced-url
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• 3786[08:54:35] <ayekat> holymoly - I'm really glad I made a system snapshot *right* before this last -Syu, because in pacdiff, I just accidentally chose "overwrite with pacnew" for pacman.conf
• 3787[08:55:19] * ayekat gives his empty coffee cup a skeptical look - "too weak, my dear"
• 3788[08:56:04] *** Quits: rizzo (~RizzoTheR@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 3789[08:56:07] <ayekat> oh - I'm in the wrong channel - I'm sorry
• 3790[08:56:42] <ayekat> but take-away message - always do your backups! *hurries away*
• 3791[08:57:29] <Haohmaru> -Syu? pacdiff? pacman? arch linux?
• 3792[08:57:36] * Haohmaru calls the debian police
• 3793[08:57:42] <ayekat> ^^
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• 3796[08:59:20] <Abdullah> arch linux got alot of packages from debian :)
• 3797[08:59:34] <hexhorse> how to route bluetooth audio to raspberry pi fm transmitter
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• 3799[09:00:12] *** cdown_ is now known as cdown
• 3800[09:00:16] <Haohmaru> hexhorse what OS are you running there?
• 3801[09:00:26] <hexhorse> raspbian cluster
• 3802[09:00:34] <hexhorse> raspbian buster
• 3803[09:00:37] <Haohmaru> what's the name of this channel?
• 3804[09:00:39] <hexhorse> sorry
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• 3807[09:01:00] <hexhorse> is based on debian
• 3808[09:01:12] <Haohmaru> 879239283 distributions are based on debian
• 3809[09:01:16] *** Joins: no_gravity (~no_gravit@replaced-ip)
• 3810[09:01:18] <ayekat> !based on debian
• 3811[09:01:18] <dpkg> Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare replaced-url
• 3812[09:02:07] <no_gravity> In Debian 10, where would you guys put "powertop --auto-tune" so it is run on startup?
• 3813[09:02:40] *** Joins: BenNZ (~Ben__@replaced-ip)
• 3814[09:02:51] <ayekat> no_gravity: unless you've already tried that and it has turned out to cause issues, I'd run it as a service
• 3815[09:02:54] *** Joins: mmp (~mmp@replaced-ip)
• 3816[09:03:09] <no_gravity> ayekat: How do you run a service?
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• 3819[09:03:41] <ayekat> where do I start
• 3820[09:03:44] <ratrace> no_gravity: replaced-url
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• 3823[09:04:42] <Abdullah> powertop runs as root
• 3824[09:05:01] <no_gravity> ratrace: Is that really the right place for a thing that should only be run once at startup?
• 3825[09:05:05] <ratrace> oh look, archlinux already has full example for it: replaced-url
• 3826[09:05:16] <ratrace> no_gravity: yes, Type=oneshot are "run once on startup" types
• 3827[09:05:48] <no_gravity> There is no "run these scripts once at startup" directory in Debian 10?
• 3828[09:06:25] <Haohmaru> autoexec.bat
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• 3831[09:06:41] <_2E0LNX> I guess rc.local has been done away with then?
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• 3835[09:07:14] <ratrace> rc.local is a hack. under systemd, writing proper services is the way to go
• 3836[09:07:35] <ayekat> no_gravity: no, the init system (in this case systemd) runs services/daemons at startup, and every action you want to have run automatically at startup must thus be written as a service
• 3837[09:07:39] *** Joins: bertbob (~bertbob@replaced-ip)
• 3838[09:08:24] <ayekat> it may seem like a lot of overhead, but it makes tracking and managing things easier in the end
• 3839[09:08:44] <no_gravity> How would that overhead be beneficial if I only want to run a command at startup?
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• 3841[09:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1455
• 3842[09:09:03] <ayekat> no_gravity: if the command fails, you can query the journal for "give me everything related to that one service"
• 3843[09:09:15] <ratrace> with the proper service unit you can define dependencies (eg. start something after network is online), and its stdout/stderr is tracked by journal so you can easily look it up
• 3844[09:09:57] <ayekat> oh yes, that too - and you can also easily detect in case it fails (e.g. `systemctl` or `systemctl status` tells you about everything that went wrong)
• 3845[09:10:03] <no_gravity> ratrace: If I just put commands in a file, they will be executed one after the other. No need for a service to have order.
• 3846[09:10:04] <ratrace> precisely
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• 3849[09:10:42] <ratrace> no_gravity: in these 5 minutes you've been here asking how NOT to use systemd services, you could've written the 8 line unit file that's posted on the archlinux wiki i pasted above, and you'd be done with it.
• 3850[09:10:54] <Haohmaru> no_gravity they will be executed in series, which will potentially be slower
• 3851[09:11:14] <no_gravity> So I will add a file to /etc/systemd/system/?
• 3852[09:11:17] <Haohmaru> afaik systemd is all about starting things up faster, in parallel where possible
• 3853[09:11:38] <ratrace> no_gravity: yes, and run `systemctl daemon-reload` to make systemd aware of it, and that's pretty much it. reboot to test.
• 3854[09:11:50] <ratrace> Haohmaru: "all about"? not in the slightest.
• 3855[09:11:58] *** Quits: CurryWurst (~CurryWurs@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3856[09:12:03] <ayekat> Haohmaru: strictly speaking, the "faster and in parallel" is more of a nice side effect of its design
• 3857[09:12:07] <Haohmaru> hm, wasn't that one of its selling points?
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• 3859[09:12:12] <ratrace> parallel exec is just one minor benefit of systemd's palette of functions
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• 3861[09:12:53] <no_gravity> Is powertop really in "/usr/bin/powertop"?
• 3862[09:13:08] *** Quits: _jrjsmrtn (~jrjsmrtn@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 3863[09:13:41] <ratrace> `which powertop`
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• 3865[09:14:13] <no_gravity> ratrace: What does that give you?
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• 3867[09:14:28] <ratrace> i don't have powertop installed
• 3868[09:14:33] <Haohmaru> it knows which thing depends on which, so it can solve the exec order and run as many things in parallel as possible, i'd think the previous equivalents of systemd didn't know the dependencies and running things in parallel would've involved a certain amount of "luck" ;P~
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• 3873[09:14:53] <no_gravity> Haohmaru: I see
• 3874[09:15:09] <Haohmaru> i remember in the my not-so-distant early days of "linux" i was writing init.d scripts x_x
• 3875[09:15:14] <ratrace> no_gravity: quick perusal of this puts it in /usr/sbin/ replaced-url
• 3876[09:15:39] *** Joins: n_1-c_k (~n_1-c_k@replaced-ip)
• 3877[09:15:47] <ratrace> init.d scripts were always "fun" to write :)
• 3878[09:15:49] *** Joins: citypw (~citypw@replaced-ip)
• 3879[09:15:57] <Haohmaru> not for me
• 3880[09:16:05] <ratrace> note the quotes
• 3881[09:16:10] <Haohmaru> i don't think i've written a systemd service yet
• 3882[09:16:30] *** Quits: Theroxat (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 3883[09:16:47] <ayekat> if you don't do any sysadmin, it's possible you never need to touch unit files
• 3884[09:16:59] <ayekat> but the same can be said about init scripts, I guess
• 3885[09:17:06] <Haohmaru> yeah
• 3886[09:17:09] <ratrace> systemd units are very powerful, in advanced setups you can containerize and isolate your service, force apparmor or selinux profiles, and do many more nifty things.
• 3887[09:17:24] <Haohmaru> i had to deal with init.d on a few machines that had to have vnc x_x
• 3888[09:17:37] <ratrace> they have much more power than just "start this after or before this"
• 3889[09:17:40] * ayekat especially appreciates user units
• 3890[09:18:18] <hsny> last week i've upgraded from stretch to buster. since then my system went slow, it crashes all day long, I can't even start Brackets or any text editor, it's been a bad week! how should i go about troubleshooting it? thanks
• 3891[09:18:19] *** Joins: a_l_b (~a_l_b@replaced-ip)
• 3892[09:18:40] <ratrace> hsny: start with the logs and see what happens when it crashes?
• 3893[09:19:13] <hsny> ok.
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• 3895[09:19:36] *** Joins: no_gravi1y (~no_gravit@replaced-ip)
• 3896[09:19:47] <no_gravi1y> Hello
• 3897[09:19:51] <no_gravi1y> My internet went down.
• 3898[09:19:59] <no_gravi1y> Now im back :)
• 3899[09:20:16] <Haohmaru> you picked it up
• 3900[09:20:35] <no_gravi1y> I forgot where we stopped ...
• 3901[09:21:16] <Haohmaru> you were going to make a systemd service, the archlinux wiki page that someone posted explains exactly what you want to do
• 3902[09:21:28] <Haohmaru> (on first sight)
• 3903[09:21:32] * ratrace is that someone
• 3904[09:21:34] <no_gravi1y> Ah yes. vim /etc/systemd/system/powertop.service
• 3905[09:22:00] <no_gravi1y> I wonder why that is not the default.
• 3906[09:22:13] <no_gravi1y> That Debian runs powertop --auto-tune on startup.
• 3907[09:22:15] *** Quits: flokuehn (~flokuehn@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 3908[09:22:50] <Haohmaru> uh, "Powertop is a tool provided by Intel to enable.."
• 3909[09:22:54] *** Joins: datastream (~datastrea@replaced-ip)
• 3910[09:23:24] <Haohmaru> maybe it doesn't make sense on non-intel machines or it's non-free or something
• 3911[09:24:05] <ayekat> Haohmaru: some people may not want to automatically have it "set all tunable options to their good setting without interaction"
• 3912[09:24:17] <Haohmaru> or that
• 3913[09:24:27] <ayekat> oh, wrong tag
• 3914[09:24:32] <ayekat> no_gravi1y: ^^
• 3915[09:24:34] <Haohmaru> and it seems it doesn't get "started" by default on archlinux either
• 3916[09:25:06] <ayekat> well, for one it doesn't come with a packaged service file already :-)
• 3917[09:25:12] *** Joins: gnupi (~gnupi@replaced-ip)
• 3918[09:25:17] <ayekat> (otherwise that wiki wouldn't instruct people to write one themselves)
• 3919[09:25:21] *** Joins: belanthor (~belan@replaced-ip)
• 3920[09:25:47] <no_gravi1y> Ok, let me restart and see what happens .. one moment ..
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• 3922[09:25:54] <Haohmaru> iirc neither did the vnc servers came with premade startup scripts/services
• 3923[09:26:50] <hsny> ratrace: is there any troubleshooting tips apart from looking at log? what could i do to make it run smoothly again?
• 3924[09:26:54] <Haohmaru> but it is said that having vnc server running all the time is usually a bad idea, and/or needs special attention
• 3925[09:27:10] *** Joins: no_gravity (~no_gravit@replaced-ip)
• 3926[09:27:36] <no_gravity> Here I am again. Tunables are bad again.
• 3927[09:27:37] <no_gravity> So it seems powertop did not kick in on startup.
• 3928[09:28:06] <no_gravity> Prove that this whole "service" thing sucks :)
• 3929[09:28:25] <no_gravity> What magic will tell me why now?
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• 3932[09:30:48] <ayekat> no_gravity: did you enable the service?
• 3933[09:31:03] <no_gravity> ayekat: No
• 3934[09:31:10] <ayekat> no_gravity: then it won't automatically run on startup
• 3935[09:31:29] <ayekat> systemctl enable foobar.service
• 3936[09:31:45] *** Joins: citypw (~citypw@replaced-ip)
• 3937[09:31:47] <ratrace> hsny: the most important thing is figuring out _why_ it is crashing
• 3938[09:31:48] <no_gravity> Id doesnt look into that dir and execute whats there?
• 3939[09:31:54] <no_gravity> *It* doesnt look into that dir and execute whats there?
• 3940[09:33:05] *** Joins: toxync12 (~toxync12@replaced-ip)
• 3941[09:33:05] <ratrace> no_gravity: no
• 3942[09:33:06] <ayekat> no_gravity: no
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• 3944[09:33:42] <no_gravity> Ok.. restarting again ...
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• 3950[09:35:12] <no_gravity> Here we go again. Tunables are good now!
• 3951[09:35:16] <no_gravity> Hallellujah!
• 3952[09:35:19] <no_gravity> Thanks everybody!
• 3953[09:35:46] <humpled> "..this whole service thing sucks.."?
• 3954[09:36:54] <no_gravity> humpled: It's more complex then having a dir with scripts that get executed.
• 3955[09:37:19] <no_gravity> humpled: Cannot say anything about the upsides. Would have to see numbers about how much it speeds up a restart.
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• 3959[09:38:22] <hsny> ratrace: always when the os boots up it gives me: /dev/sda5: recovering journal /dev/sda5: Clearing orphaned inode...
• 3960[09:38:59] <hsny> ratrace: which log file should i be monitoring?
• 3961[09:39:04] *** Quits: a_l_b (~a_l_b@replaced-ip) (Quit: a_l_b)
• 3962[09:39:04] <ayekat> no_gravity: again, systemd is not about speed - and while it may seem more complex to you, I'd argue that in the end it makes things simpler and more elegant than hacked-together shell scripts
• 3963[09:41:12] <no_gravity> ayekat: If it does not speed things up, my money is on it being a net negative for the world.
• 3964[09:41:15] <ayekat> no_gravity: (also, while "it is not about speed", it *does* speed up things quite considerably as opposed to the linear init scripts approach)
• 3965[09:41:48] *** Quits: careta (~careta@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 3966[09:41:58] <no_gravity> Elegant scripts versus a hacked-together pile of bloat. My money is on the beautiful scripts.
• 3967[09:42:23] <humpled> ayekat, you seem to be using logic against emotion
• 3968[09:42:25] <Haohmaru> my init.d scripts were hacked together
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• 3971[09:42:56] <Haohmaru> i know systemd has been (and probably still is) hated, but the idea makes sense
• 3972[09:42:58] <ayekat> no_gravity: alright, if you want to start a systemd debate, -> there is the door - this kind of discussion has been had countless times in the past decade
• 3973[09:43:07] *** Quits: no_gravity (~no_gravit@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
• 3974[09:43:14] <Haohmaru> one thing that is designed to handle loading and starting up the system
• 3975[09:43:23] *** Joins: tangarora (~tangarora@replaced-ip)
• 3976[09:44:14] <Haohmaru> just, why does it say "resuming from hybernation" is a mystery
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• 3991[09:53:24] <ratrace> Haohmaru: it is hated by a tiny, yet vocal, minority and primarily not for technical reasons, but emotional.
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• 3993[09:53:43] *** cef is now known as Cefiar
• 3994[09:53:48] <ratrace> eh i was bout to answer to hsny.... oh well...
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• 4000[09:55:46] <Haohmaru> in systemctl status, i see 1 unit has failed, but i don't see which one
• 4001[09:56:06] <ratrace> Haohmaru: systemctl list-units --failed
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• 4003[09:56:26] <Haohmaru> ah, saw it with running just "systemctl"
• 4004[09:56:31] *** Joins: dreamon (~dreamon@replaced-ip)
• 4005[09:56:31] <Haohmaru> it's networking.service
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• 4018[10:07:27] <no_gravity> One issue I noticed with "powertop --auto-tune" on startup is that the keyboard and mouse get wonky. I have to unplug and replug them once after each boot to make them work normally.
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• 4020[10:07:45] <no_gravity> Is there a way to debug this?
• 4021[10:08:02] <Haohmaru> o_O
• 4022[10:09:17] <srged> My debia keeps freezing. can anyone have a look at my dmesg log ?
• 4023[10:10:18] *** Joins: timur_davletshin (~timur_dav@replaced-ip)
• 4024[10:11:14] <srged> My debian10 keeps freezing. can anyone have a look at my dmesg log ?
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• 4027[10:13:15] <diogenes_> srged, inxi -F would be handy.
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• 4031[10:13:58] <srged> diogenes_:
• 4032[10:14:00] <srged> user@x:~$ sudo inxi -F
• 4033[10:14:00] <srged> sudo: inxi: command not found
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• 4038[10:14:28] <ZaZaGX> su -
• 4039[10:14:35] <ZaZaGX> than password
• 4040[10:14:41] <diogenes_> srged, did i say anything about sudo?
• 4041[10:14:54] <diogenes_> first you need to install it: sudo apt install inxi
• 4042[10:14:58] <diogenes_> then run: inxi -F
• 4043[10:15:05] <diogenes_> then pastebin the output.
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• 4051[10:17:47] <srged> diogenes_: replaced-url
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• 4054[10:17:55] <inter-link> If anyone would like a free shell to test/play with or even a free debian dedicated server, message me or come to #inter-link
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• 4058[10:19:39] <Haohmaru> what happened to "there is no free lunch"
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• 4061[10:21:19] <diogenes_> srged, so you get freezes when exactly?
• 4062[10:21:58] <srged> diogenes_: at random times. also i tend to have many browser tabs etc...
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• 4066[10:23:02] <diogenes_> srged, that's one of the reasons you can get lockups since modern web is bloated big time and one singe tab can reach up to 500 MB of ram.
• 4067[10:23:04] *** Joins: kirk781 (~kirk781@replaced-ip)
• 4068[10:23:13] <diogenes_> and you got only 4 GB ram.
• 4069[10:23:39] <no_gravity> The whole OS freezes is an application requests a lot of ram?
• 4070[10:23:45] <ratrace> Haohmaru: to quote general ackbar.... :)
• 4071[10:23:47] <diogenes_> another reason could be the high temperature, as of right now it reports: System Temperatures: cpu: 73.0 C mobo: 73.0 C gpu: nouveau temp: 85 C
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• 4073[10:23:55] <diogenes_> that's pretty hight.
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• 4075[10:24:12] <grandfso> Let's say I want to get someone help me on my server configuration, how do you securely share access to a server with someone who you not entirely trust? Is there some SUDO with Moderation mode, so any time a user want's to launch a sudo command, it will prompt my own user to accept running of such command ?
• 4076[10:24:27] <diogenes_> srged, one thing you could try is to install nvidia driver and see if it would make things better.
• 4077[10:25:35] <no_gravity> grandfso: You could write a script that does something like that.
• 4078[10:25:50] <Haohmaru> grandfso put one hand on the ethernet cable, the other one on the reset button
• 4079[10:25:54] <grandfso> :)
• 4080[10:26:05] <Haohmaru> and don't blink
• 4081[10:26:24] <grandfso> no_gravity: ok, thanks. I imagined this use case is not unique, so was hoping it was solved already :)
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• 4084[10:27:32] <no_gravity> grandfso: Simple solution: Make the other guy join #gradfsoserver, paste all commands he writes into your terminal and paste the output back to the channel.
• 4085[10:28:08] <srged> diogenes_: ok will try. thx
• 4086[10:28:25] <grandfso> no_gravity: makes sense, and is probably quicker than moderating sudo commands
• 4087[10:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1464
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• 4089[10:29:40] <no_gravity> grandfso: Sending back to the channel could be automated via a little script on the server "executeAndSendOutputToIRC.sh"
• 4090[10:30:19] <no_gravity> grandfso: So if he writes "ls /var/log" you type "executeAndSendOutputToIrc.sh ls /var/log"
• 4091[10:30:36] <no_gravity> And it executes the command and sends the output to the channel.
• 4092[10:30:56] <no_gravity> Next step, make it read from IRC and just prompt you "Do it?".
• 4093[10:31:02] *** Joins: Lord_of_Life (~Lord@replaced-ip)
• 4094[10:31:08] <no_gravity> Done. All you have to do is keep typing "y" and "n" :)
• 4095[10:31:58] <Haohmaru> sending tons of messages over IRC is illegal and u'll be jailed
• 4096[10:32:10] <Haohmaru> read the MOTD of the server
• 4097[10:32:43] *** Quits: srged (~srged@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 4098[10:32:49] <no_gravity> Haohmaru: Thats like saying "sending tons of messages over <anyprotocol> is illegal".
• 4099[10:32:54] *** Joins: han-solo (~han-solo@replaced-ip)
• 4100[10:33:32] <grandfso> no_gravity: this seems like a dope solution :)
• 4101[10:33:33] <Haohmaru> well, try it then, you'll get automatically disconnected by the server for "excess flood" or similar
• 4102[10:33:41] <no_gravity> There ain't now irc laws and no http laws and no ssh laws.
• 4103[10:33:55] <Haohmaru> sure there are, irc network laws
• 4104[10:34:20] *** Quits: Matt12345 (~Matt12345@replaced-ip) (Quit: See you)
• 4105[10:34:25] <no_gravity> grandfso: Next step: call it ircssh, post it to HN, Reddit etc. Enjoy a day of internet fame.
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• 4108[10:34:32] <cef> It's not illegal as such. It's just impolite and people get kicked for being impolite.
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• 4111[10:35:04] <no_gravity> cef, Haohmaru: You confuse IRC the protocol with certain server providers like freenode.
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• 4114[10:35:18] <grandfso> no_gravity: don't forget asking for donations, and consider a freemium model as well :)
• 4115[10:35:20] *** Quits: littlebit1 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 4116[10:35:49] <no_gravity> grandfso: Well, it would just be a shell script. So making it a freemium model is probably not very doable.
• 4117[10:36:08] *** Joins: Matt12345 (~Matt12345@replaced-ip)
• 4118[10:36:10] <cef> no_gravity: that's why I said it's NOT illegal. :P
• 4119[10:36:18] <Haohmaru> no, i don't
• 4120[10:37:43] <Haohmaru> most servers will have a limit per user for how much data you can send, in case you've forgotten the good old days with message flood bots and dial up modems
• 4121[10:37:59] <alkisg> grandfso, you can give him *read only* access to your screen (vnc/socat/whatever), and he can send you the commands over IRC. View only access is faster than pasting the command output all the time.
• 4122[10:38:05] <cef> Re: script that does this.. you could run it in a query window direct with the user. All the flood ban limits are usually for channels.
• 4123[10:38:12] <no_gravity> Haohmaru: That's like saying using a nickname is against HTTP law because Facebook does not allow it.
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• 4126[10:39:03] <Haohmaru> i'm done with you
• 4127[10:39:20] <no_gravity> Haohmaru is done with me.
• 4128[10:39:31] * jelly points over to #debian-offtopic
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• 4130[10:39:54] <Haohmaru> what alkisg suggested is a better idea, grandfso
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• 4133[10:41:07] <jelly> "ok now run wget replaced-url
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• 4135[10:41:40] <Haohmaru> yeah, assuming you understand the risks with the commands he instructs you to run
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• 4137[10:43:05] <cef> ok, real question time: I run "echo 1 > /sys/class/leds/input10\:\:scrolllock/brightness" in rc.local to turn on my keyboard backlight. Hitting capslock though turns the backlight off (never used to do this in Stretch, even with a backport kernel, only in Buster). How do I stop Capslock doing this, without disabling Capslock?
• 4138[10:43:07] <alkisg> grandfso: replaced-url
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• 4140[10:44:13] <Haohmaru> hm, this echo stuff smells hacky, isn't there another way to do it maybe?
• 4141[10:44:14] <Haohmaru> i'
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• 4144[10:44:41] <Haohmaru> i've only done custom settings to the mouse, via xorg.conf.d iirc
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• 4147[10:45:36] <Haohmaru> why do you need backlight on a keyboard x_x
• 4148[10:45:38] <cef> Haohmaru: no other way it seems. I'm tempted to just open up the keyboard and hardwire the backlight leds to stay on. ;)
• 4149[10:45:54] <cef> Haohmaru: cos otherwise the letters are black on black.
• 4150[10:46:00] <Haohmaru> yeah, bonus points if you run it thru a smol on/off switch
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• 4156[10:46:57] <Haohmaru> but some people put interior lighting in their computer case, with full blown RGB
• 4157[10:47:06] <Haohmaru> so what do i know about fashion
• 4158[10:47:43] *** Joins: Habbie (peter@replaced-ip)
• 4159[10:47:59] <cef> Haohmaru: indeed. I'm not one of those. This is just a gamer keyboard I ended up with that otherwise works perfectly. had it for almost 3 yrs now.. throwing it away just cos of this seems silly and wasteful.
• 4160[10:48:22] *** Quits: timur_davletshin (~timur_dav@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 4161[10:49:03] <Haohmaru> oh, i think i use "xkb" or some such to "turn on the Numlock" on startup
• 4162[10:49:16] <cef> What gets me is that something obviously changed between stretch and buster that causes this behaviour.
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• 4164[10:49:28] <Haohmaru> lots of things change
• 4165[10:49:40] <cef> xkb is nice and all, but it requires X is running, which well.. wayland.
• 4166[10:49:50] <Haohmaru> ah
• 4167[10:49:55] <Haohmaru> *shrug* then
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• 4169[10:50:34] <cef> tho I was running wayland no issue in stretch too, which is why this is bugging me.
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• 4171[10:50:47] <cef> at the moment I just avoid capslock
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• 4173[10:51:32] <Haohmaru> who uses capslock
• 4174[10:51:38] <Haohmaru> i do, like once a year
• 4175[10:53:12] <cef> yeah. main issue is when I accidentally tap it and then.. no backlight. can't see what I'm typing (I can't properly touchtype, I look down occasionally and it throws me off.
• 4176[10:53:29] <Haohmaru> aww
• 4177[10:53:48] <cef> ok so.. disabling capslock?
• 4178[10:53:53] <Haohmaru> i don't look at the keyboard.. funny thing is, i don't know where the keys should be
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• 4184[10:56:46] <at0m> cef: maybe xmodmap to remap capslock to shift, for example. and see if the issue persists (ie. is it software or hardware?)
• 4185[10:56:57] <alkisg> Would xmodmap work in wayland?
• 4186[10:57:08] *** Quits: _chaplin_ (~chaplin@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 4187[10:57:11] <at0m> one way to find out
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• 4195[11:04:40] <Haohmaru> famous last words
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• 4203[11:08:17] <flurp> debian is the best OS in the world after openbsd
• 4204[11:08:19] <flurp> :)
• 4205[11:08:33] <kirk781> Psst, Solaris is the best OS
• 4206[11:08:57] <kirk781> Some guy is still writing Ethernet drivers for it for the two dozen users left in the world
• 4207[11:09:04] *** Joins: AimHere (~David@replaced-ip)
• 4208[11:09:20] <Haohmaru> a true hero
• 4209[11:09:56] <Haohmaru> can't he.. like.. steal the drivers from other linuxes?
• 4210[11:10:14] *** Joins: tsujp (~tsujp@replaced-ip)
• 4211[11:10:24] <kirk781> Considering that Solaris is out of support, no guarantee that it'll work
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• 4213[11:10:46] <Haohmaru> aww
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• 4220[11:14:29] <thow> unattended-upgrades upgraded libssl, and it forces some services (postfix, postgres) to restart automatically though those servers weren't upgraded. is there any way to disable automatic restart of services?
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• 4232[11:20:53] <ratrace> thow: they were restarted because a link dependency, libssl, was upgraded. you shouldn't prevent those
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• 4234[11:21:32] <ratrace> basically code that postfix and postgres are using and executed was changed, you really DO want to restart those services
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• 4251[11:34:52] <thow> ratrace: it's a production server. packages that can be upgraded without restarting anything should be upgraded. but i don't want ANYTHING to be automatically restarted due to lateral dependencies. if it's not possible to disable automatic restart of services, then unattended-upgrades is not suitable for production environments.
• 4252[11:35:28] <thow> there should be an option to configure if you want services to be restarted automatically or not.
• 4253[11:36:28] <humpled> "unattended-upgrades is not suitable for production environments"
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• 4259[11:38:28] <thow> how about this? replaced-url
• 4260[11:38:39] <thow> is there any change to re-launch that dialog
• 4261[11:38:40] <thow> ?
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• 4263[11:42:12] <ratrace> thow: i think you're missing the point. an upgrade to a dll is just the same as if the program that links ot it has changed. code changed and you'd normally want the service to restart and relink to new code.
• 4264[11:42:48] <ratrace> thow: meanwhile.... funny that you don't want this happening and yet you use unattended upgrades on a production server. personally i'd never allow anything upgrade or change without me auditing and testing it first.
• 4265[11:43:03] <ratrace> kinda conflicting requirements you have there.
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• 4275[11:52:40] <irrep> I've upgraded Debian 9 to 10 on workstations with network shared users via NIS and NFS. Now sound and USB drive mounting for users does not work any more, I realized that the user session does not show up with `loginctl`.
• 4276[11:52:57] <irrep> It seems as if lightdm would not properly set something, or something fishy is going on.
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• 4278[11:53:04] <irrep> Do you have an idea where to continue digging?
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• 4286[11:58:41] <thow> ratrace: "you're missing the point" "you use unattended upgrades on a production server", "you have kinda conflicting requirements"... stop blaming me and assuming things you don't know, and try to consider what i'm asking.
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• 4289[11:59:59] <thow> "is there any way to prevent unattended/automatic upgrades on packages that require restarting services?"
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• 4293[12:00:50] <ayekat> while I'm not a fan of debian restarting services behind my back either, I do see some conflict of interest of not wanting things to happen automatically, yet enabling unattended-upgrades
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• 4295[12:01:04] <ratrace> thow: there is no. you can stop maintainer scripts but then you have side effects.
• 4296[12:01:09] <thow> why?
• 4297[12:01:55] <ratrace> because you wan't something to install and restart stuff with you not bothering to oversee, and in the same sentence you don't want stuff to be changed and restarted.
• 4298[12:02:00] <thow> i mean, i want non-critical packages to be automatically upgraded, while manually upgrading packages that require restarting other services. why do you see conflict of interest?
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• 4301[12:02:19] <thow> no, i don't want anything to be restarted at all.
• 4302[12:02:30] <ratrace> then what's the point of upgrade if you don't restart upgraded code?
• 4303[12:02:54] <alkisg> Back with sysinit, this was possible using policy-rc.d, for example replaced-url
• 4304[12:02:54] <alkisg> I don't know if this is still possible with systemd
• 4305[12:03:01] <thow> i think you don't understand what i'm trying to say.
• 4306[12:03:13] <thow> i'm talking about services. not all packages are connected to services.
• 4307[12:03:34] <ratrace> but only those that are, are triggering service restart
• 4308[12:03:34] <alkisg> I don't think packages have enough information for apt to know if they'll restart a service on postinst or not
• 4309[12:03:35] <ayekat> services may periodically invoke external utilities (that may themselves be upgraded)
• 4310[12:03:37] <thow> an upgrade of 'vim' package can be automatically performed at any time.
• 4311[12:03:51] *** Joins: eaxxae (~eaxxae@replaced-ip)
• 4312[12:03:54] <thow> but i don't want an upgrade of 'nginx' package if it implies restarting nginx service.
• 4313[12:03:55] <ratrace> thow: in this case you had libss upgraded. restarting services that use it is important and SHOULD happen.
• 4314[12:04:07] <thow> then, i'll manually upgrade libssl.
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• 4316[12:04:11] <thow> that's all i'm saying.
• 4317[12:04:16] <ratrace> thow: okay, so no, you cannot limit unattended upgrades to upgrade only stuff that wouldn't result with a service restart
• 4318[12:04:30] <ratrace> artificaially blocking maintainer scripts to prevent service restart is a very bad idea.
• 4319[12:04:35] <ratrace> *artificially
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• 4321[12:05:11] <ayekat> alkisg: well, given that this "automatically restart services on package upgrade/install" is something debian-specific, I'd argue that some component in apt/dpkg has some information about what will trigger a service restart
• 4322[12:05:22] <ratrace> so to achieve what you want is: don't use unattended upgrades, and then manually (or using automation) upgrade only code that wouldn't affect running services.
• 4323[12:05:38] <thow> ayekat: yeah, debconf/selections knows if a package implies restarting a service.
• 4324[12:06:00] <alkisg> ayekat: that was a debconf/whiptail question of a specific package that is well written; not all of them are. Some just restart services on postinst.
• 4325[12:06:08] <thow> so technically, unattended-upgrades can know if upgrading a package will restart a service or not.
• 4326[12:06:27] <ratrace> in theory it'd be possible, but it doesn't do that
• 4327[12:06:32] <thow> i see
• 4328[12:06:38] <thow> thanks
• 4329[12:06:54] <thow> i can't use unattended-upgrades on production
• 4330[12:07:19] <thow> is there any way to do that manually?
• 4331[12:07:20] <ratrace> which is what i originally stated, you had conflicting requirements.
• 4332[12:07:55] <thow> here it comes again...
• 4333[12:07:56] <thow> why?
• 4334[12:08:10] <ratrace> thow: the only way is knowing exactly which packages would affect which services. so you can run a test in a VM, see what happens, and then limit upgrades for production.
• 4335[12:08:10] <thow> what's so wrong about wanting to run some kind of apt-get upgrade --except-packages-that-require-restarting-services?
• 4336[12:08:27] <ratrace> thow: uhh nothing wrong with that. i was referring to the tools you used -- conflicting.
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• 4338[12:08:45] <ratrace> unattended upgrades are well.... unattended, so meant to be run.... unattended.
• 4339[12:08:47] <thow> really?
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• 4342[12:09:26] <thow> unattended-upgrades can be configured to prevent rebooting a system. i just assumed it might be possible to configure it to prevent restarting a service.
• 4343[12:09:35] <ratrace> so ideally you run an upgrade in a VM or something, see what happens, then limit what will be upgraded in production
• 4344[12:10:06] <ayekat> I'd say that either you want things to happen automagically behind your back, or you don't
• 4345[12:10:15] <ratrace> thow: "prevent restarting a service" would mean not ugrading the involved packages at all
• 4346[12:10:16] <thow> ?
• 4347[12:10:24] <thow> i strongly disagree
• 4348[12:10:33] <thow> not all packages affect services
• 4349[12:10:42] <ayekat> not *directly*
• 4350[12:10:49] <thow> not at all.
• 4351[12:10:54] <ratrace> to use the example you initially posted, if you have libssl upgrade (code changed), you DO want services that use it restarted, even though there are programs that don't run as services and are linked to it.
• 4352[12:10:56] <ayekat> a service may periodically invoke another tool
• 4353[12:11:04] <ayekat> that has been upgraded
• 4354[12:11:09] <ratrace> and those won't affect service restart
• 4355[12:11:27] <ratrace> nginx can fastcgi requests to php. upgrading php won't restart nginx.
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• 4357[12:11:45] <ratrace> upgrading a package that installs a file nginx dynamically links to, SHOULD restart nginx.
• 4358[12:11:52] <thow> great. so don't upgrade libssl, don't upgrade php, don't upgrade nginx... that's exactly what i want. i want to manually upgrade those packages.
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• 4361[12:12:18] <ayekat> weell... a program can keep running even if a library has been upgraded/removed, though
• 4362[12:12:33] <ratrace> thow: sounds like you want containers, each with its own version of any dll involved, so you can only upgrade some, but not all
• 4363[12:12:39] <thow> why do you assume all programs are running?
• 4364[12:13:22] <ratrace> ayekat: yes but should it? dpkg can't decide "oh this is a secvuln upgrade, I _will_ restart" or "meh this is a minor bug, no point in restarting"
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• 4366[12:13:52] <thow> dpkg knows if upgrading 'bc' or 'vim' will require restarting a service or not. obviously.
• 4367[12:13:52] <dpkg> You are person #1 to send an unparseable request, thow
• 4368[12:13:56] <ratrace> what i do, i read changelogs and then decide whether to run an upgrade or not (going through a test VM first)
• 4369[12:14:08] <ayekat> ratrace: I'd say it's probably wiser to have it restarted - but I think there should at least be the option to allow the sysadmin to decide instead
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• 4372[12:14:40] <thow> that decision should be left to the user.
• 4373[12:14:47] <ratrace> ayekat: well yeah, i'm not a fan of automatically (re)starting them either, but that can't really be changed without sideffects so i prefer to adapt to it instead
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• 4375[12:14:53] <ayekat> IMHO restarts are less of an issue, but fresh installations where I haven't done the setup yet...?
• 4376[12:15:07] <thow> i guess it depends on the package.
• 4377[12:15:20] <ratrace> ayekat: packages come with some sane basic default, and those that can't wont autostart
• 4378[12:15:44] <ayekat> ratrace: I guess it's a matter of taste
• 4379[12:16:16] <ayekat> I prefer the simplicity of knowing that nothing will be auto-(re)started, no matter what - but others may prefer some partial automation
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• 4381[12:17:13] <alkisg> The best services are those that can automatically restart while saving their state, so that clients don't even know they restarted :)
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• 4383[12:18:07] <humpled> :\/
• 4384[12:18:09] <ratrace> true that. nginx can upgrade itself gracefully
• 4385[12:18:10] <thow> a graceful reload should be the way to go :)
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• 4387[12:18:54] <ratrace> my biggest gripe with this is postgres... an upgrade restarts postgres and then you have a cascade of failures with apps that don't recover when their db connection is gone
• 4388[12:19:21] <ratrace> therefore.... test all the upgrades and never trust automagic of unattended upgrades
• 4389[12:19:22] *** Quits: AgTh (~b50c6@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 4390[12:19:26] <thow> yeah, that's what killed my service two nights ago and last night.
• 4391[12:20:13] <ratrace> then again... postgres will be restarted sooner or later, so the proper fix is to have those apps recover gracefully
• 4392[12:20:41] <ratrace> (ie. preventing autorestart is really just prolonging the inevitable and not really an issue)
• 4393[12:21:06] <ratrace> %s/prolonging/delaying/
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• 4395[12:21:11] <thow> if it has to be restarted, i want to be connected checking the process, logs, etc. i don't want it to happen while i'm sleeping.
• 4396[12:21:14] <thow> at least.
• 4397[12:21:20] <Jmabsd> Which is the very most open source oriented Linux, Debian? Arch Linux? etc. (open q)
• 4398[12:21:44] <thow> you're in #debian. what do you expect us to reply? slackware?
• 4399[12:22:05] *** Quits: derlg (~Der@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
• 4400[12:22:18] <Jmabsd> thow: not sure lol.
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• 4402[12:23:56] *** Joins: B|ack0p (~m@replaced-ip)
• 4403[12:24:00] <B|ack0p> hi.
• 4404[12:24:09] <B|ack0p> is the grub same for all linux distros?
• 4405[12:24:17] <B|ack0p> grub menu i mean
• 4406[12:24:52] <VadPerevad> Jmabsd, you should see gnu.org - it is a temple of freedom and open source :)
• 4407[12:24:56] <ayekat> B|ack0p: more or less - distributions may package it differently, leading to differences (as for all software)
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• 4411[12:25:59] <ayekat> Jmabsd: "open source oriented" doesn't mean much (as you have been told also on other channels where you have chosen to /amsg your question)
• 4412[12:26:23] *** Parts: alkisg (~alkisg@replaced-ip) ()
• 4413[12:26:29] <B|ack0p> is grub look like plain like this without any distro style? replaced-url
• 4414[12:26:31] <Jmabsd> what do you think is the most security and robustness oriented Linux distribution? (sleep well at night factor)
• 4415[12:27:08] *** Quits: george959 (~george959@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
• 4416[12:27:12] <thow> what's the next question? what's the linux distribution more independent? the one with more packages?
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• 4418[12:27:39] *** Parts: thow (~thow@replaced-ip) ()
• 4419[12:29:15] <VadPerevad> Jmabsd, did you clicked gnu.org? Security, open source -- all there.
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• 4422[12:30:44] <inter-link> Have a few dedicated servers being set up.. Have 2-3 dedicated servers available for free or just normal shell accounts. PM or come to #inter-link if you want one
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• 4437[12:40:42] <Jmabsd> In which Debian system configuration file do I put the "options vfio-pci ...." line?
• 4438[12:40:44] *** Quits: careta (~careta@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 4439[12:42:29] <Jmabsd> hm /etc/modules
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• 4447[12:45:16] <petan> hi guys I have a really weird issues with NFS server which seems to randomly end up in weird states, it used to run OOM but that was probably due to some rsync script. Now the problem I am facing is that the mount point which is exported (/backups) is getting 100% full while being almost empty. I was looking for FD's pointing to deleted files, but there are none, it's probably NFS kernel driver holding up that space?
• 4448[12:45:53] *** Joins: adc (~adc@replaced-ip)
• 4449[12:46:01] <petan> mount point has 200GB, ext4 FS and du -ksh show 15GB used. df reports 100% used and 0 bytes free
• 4450[12:46:14] <petan> lsof report no FD's pointing to deleted files
• 4451[12:46:45] <petan> kernel version (uname) -> Linux backups2 4.9.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.168-1+deb9u3 (2019-06-16) x86_64 GNU/Linux
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• 4455[12:48:11] <petan> reboot would fix it but I would prefer better solution than reboot every week :)
• 4456[12:49:05] <Bliepo> What is the output of mount?
• 4457[12:49:33] <petan> /dev/xvdb on /backups type ext4 (rw,relatime,data=ordered)
• 4458[12:49:46] *** Quits: eaxxae (~eaxxae@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 4459[12:50:11] <Bliepo> And if you stop the nfs service what happens?
• 4460[12:50:49] *** Quits: cnsunyour (~cnsunyour@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.5)
• 4461[12:51:32] <petan> I can try to "stop" it but it's a kernel-nfs so in fact there is no dedicated process for it (Active: active (exited) since Wed 2019-07-17 15:23:04 CEST; 1 months 5 days ago)
• 4462[12:51:48] <Bliepo> kernel-nfs?
• 4463[12:51:57] <petan> nfs is a kernel module
• 4464[12:51:59] <petan> anyway
• 4465[12:52:06] <petan> I stopped it and space started getting freed up
• 4466[12:52:12] <petan> so it's clearly some "kernel bug"?
• 4467[12:52:15] <petan> I guess
• 4468[12:52:35] <Bliepo> Is it showing disk activity now?
• 4469[12:52:40] <petan> since service is down space is getting reclaimed, yes
• 4470[12:52:48] *** Joins: tsujp (~tsujp@replaced-ip)
• 4471[12:52:49] <petan> now almost whole /backups is free
• 4472[12:53:14] <Bliepo> I meant more like: is it actually deleting stuff, or is it just changing the reports?
• 4473[12:53:29] <petan> it's just changing reports, almost no disk activity
• 4474[12:54:02] *** Quits: flokuehn (~flokuehn@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 4475[12:54:10] <Bliepo> Anything to be found in dmesg?
• 4476[12:54:43] <petan> from today only this: [Thu Aug 22 12:51:35 2019] nfsd: last server has exited, flushing export cache
• 4477[12:55:14] *** Parts: i05 (~i05@replaced-ip) ("Leaving")
• 4478[12:55:18] <petan> but there is something weird there: replaced-url
• 4479[12:55:47] <Bliepo> The export cache one, is it one of the most recent entries?
• 4480[12:55:52] <petan> yes
• 4481[12:55:54] <petan> that's last line now
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• 4483[12:56:13] <Bliepo> Then I think that export cache is likely to have something to do with it
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• 4485[12:56:46] <petan> hmm I will try to google something about "export cache" but from the name of it I would guess it's something related to RAM rather than actual storage
• 4486[12:57:06] <Bliepo> I´m no expert on NFS, just doing some suggestions
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• 4488[12:57:39] <Bliepo> Not sure about the paste, it does seem there is something crashing there
• 4489[12:57:50] <Bliepo> May want to try a more recent kernel for testing
• 4490[12:58:08] <Bliepo> Other than that I´m all out of ideas
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• 4493[12:58:46] <petan> hmm I think I patched this server recently, probably few weeks ago, but I will try
• 4494[12:59:41] <Bliepo> If you patched it, you may also want to try the unpatched version
• 4495[12:59:55] *** Quits: governor_ (~governor@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 4496[13:00:06] <petan> it was doing this for some time, that's why I patched it few weeks ago, but problem seems to be not fixed by that
• 4497[13:00:17] <petan> I always just rebooted it, but it's getting a bit annoying
• 4498[13:00:33] <Bliepo> Well, at least you can now reboot the service instead
• 4499[13:00:52] *** Quits: governor (~governor@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 4500[13:00:53] <petan> in past /backups was btrfs so I was thinking it's a bug in btrfs and reformatted to more stable ext4, but now it seems the problem is in actual NFS server driver
• 4501[13:01:15] <petan> well I could probably add nfs-server restart to crontab lol
• 4502[13:01:40] *** Quits: saturos (~saturos@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 4503[13:01:42] <Bliepo> Not what I´d suggest as a permanent solution, but as a work-around... I´ve seen worse
• 4504[13:02:11] *** Joins: AgTh (~b50c6@replaced-ip)
• 4505[13:02:58] <Jmabsd> My /etc/modules seems to not load on boot?? Should it?
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• 4513[13:06:19] <Jmabsd> Must I run "update-initramfs" after changing /etc/modules??
• 4514[13:06:46] *** Joins: freakyy (~uwe@replaced-ip)
• 4515[13:07:46] <petan> Jmabsd: no, that file is read by systemd-modules-load.service on boot, long after init script from initramfs is finished
• 4516[13:08:16] <Jmabsd> petan: aha. hmm. i like my vfio-pci to be run really early during the OS startup,
• 4517[13:08:29] <Jmabsd> so that the vfio-pci-"taken" devices will absolutely not be touched by any other Linux driver.
• 4518[13:08:41] <Jmabsd> how do I make vfio-pci with my "ids" argument load really really early?
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• 4522[13:09:51] <Jmabsd> petan: so i should add it to /etc/initramfs-tools/modules instead?
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• 4527[13:11:48] <petan> you can compile that as bulit-in module, that would definitely load it early, or yes, to initramfs
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• 4532[13:15:22] <b|ack0p> can i implement default debian grub menu to ubuntu?
• 4533[13:15:34] <b|ack0p> classic look without any style or background i mean
• 4534[13:15:48] <b|ack0p> blue background
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• 4538[13:16:52] <Jmabsd> petan: wait what's the instructions for doing so, first echo "vfio-pci ids=IDSHERE" >> /etc/initramfs-tools/modules
• 4539[13:17:04] <Jmabsd> then update-initramfs -u && update-grub && reboot ?
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• 4543[13:18:13] <petan> yes that should do it
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• 4545[13:19:36] <Jmabsd> petan: dammit didn't work on 4 tries =(
• 4546[13:19:40] <Jmabsd> petan: what did I miss =((
• 4547[13:19:43] <Jmabsd> the above did not work
• 4548[13:20:10] <Jmabsd> weird, "lsmod | grep vfio
• 4549[13:20:10] <Jmabsd> " does show some stuff
• 4550[13:20:21] <Jmabsd> it did not when i had it in /etc/modules and rebooted, but now it does
• 4551[13:20:38] <Jmabsd> wait, the first line is "vfio_pci 45056 0"
• 4552[13:20:42] <Jmabsd> does 0 mean it's not loaded? :o
• 4553[13:21:16] <b|ack0p> what is the default.grub for debian? ubuntu shows this: if background_color 44,0,30,0; then
• 4554[13:21:19] <b|ack0p> clear
• 4555[13:21:28] <Jmabsd> oh! i see now
• 4556[13:21:38] <Jmabsd> petan: so the vfio-pci kicks in at 10 seconds offset,
• 4557[13:21:46] <Jmabsd> while the Ethernet driver kicks in at 6 seconds offset =(
• 4558[13:21:50] <Jmabsd> so it's too late =(
• 4559[13:22:09] <Jmabsd> can we load the vfio-pci already via kernel arguments?? that should be at 0 seconds offet he.
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• 4564[13:23:00] <Jmabsd> arch linux does some mkinitcpio thing apparently
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• 4569[13:23:44] <rain1> how do i make USB devices work in a chroot?
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• 4571[13:24:01] <rain1> i found info about bind mounting /proc/bus/usb but that doesn't seem to exist on my host
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• 4578[13:27:20] <Jmabsd> aha this describes replaced-url
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• 4580[13:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1470
• 4581[13:29:02] <humpled> hmm
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• 4597[13:37:35] <Jmabsd> humpled,petan: awrr!!! I even tried adding the " rd.driver.pre=vfio-pci vfio_pci.ids=..." kernel argument, still doesn't work!
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• 4604[13:40:53] <Jmabsd> "update-grup" implies "update-initramfs -u" right?
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• 4616[13:53:52] <EmleyMoor> update-what? And no, not to my knowledge
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• 4618[13:56:44] <jelly> Jmabsd: update-grub does not, in fact call update-initramfs, these are separate steps
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• 4620[13:57:57] <Jmabsd> jelly: I see. yeah i kind of realized.
• 4621[13:58:09] <Jmabsd> i have not gotten the vfio-pci capture to happen yet before the ethernet driver load though
• 4622[13:58:19] <Jmabsd> I try this now: echo "softdep * pre: vfio-pci" >> /etc/initramfs-tools/modules
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• 4629[13:59:36] <ratrace> Jmabsd: what exactly do you want to achieve?
• 4630[13:59:51] <Jmabsd> ratrace: PCI passthrough to KVM for given PCIe device ID:s!
• 4631[14:01:13] <Jmabsd> ratrace: my problem is that VFIO-PCI kicks in at boot+10 seconds but the PCI device driver kicks in at boot + 6 seconds ='(
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• 4633[14:02:03] <ratrace> Jmabsd: qemu-system-x86_64 has pci assignment directives
• 4634[14:02:18] <Jmabsd> wait, is it "vfio-pci" or "vfio_pci" in /etc/initramfs-tools/modules ?
• 4635[14:02:45] <Jmabsd> ratrace: well you should have the kernel NOT touch a particular PCI device at boot shouldn't you
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• 4637[14:02:50] <Jmabsd> at least i prefer that to be the case ..
• 4638[14:02:52] *** Joins: Echo6_ (~Echo6@replaced-ip)
• 4639[14:03:02] <Jmabsd> ratrace: so what I want to achieve is totally pre-qemu
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• 4643[14:04:35] <ratrace> Jmabsd: i don't think that's a strict requirement, no and btw it's vfio-pci yes
• 4644[14:04:44] <Jmabsd> must I also get "vfio_iommu_type1"?
• 4645[14:04:53] <Jmabsd> ratrace: I like to do it still
• 4646[14:05:13] <ratrace> seen this? replaced-url
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• 4650[14:07:21] <Jmabsd> ratrace: oh interesting.. how do mkinitcpio in debian?
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• 4654[14:07:41] <ratrace> Jmabsd: there's initramfs-tools in debian, has a manpage
• 4655[14:08:22] <ratrace> Jmabsd: worst case, you'd need to write a custom "init-top" script (see "Subdirectories" entry in teh manpage) that forces module loading before anything else
• 4656[14:08:27] *** Joins: zeden (~user@replaced-ip)
• 4657[14:08:40] <Jmabsd> so on Debian I must add those modules to /etc/initramfs-tools/initramfs.conf somehow
• 4658[14:08:41] *** Joins: kirk781 (~kirk781@replaced-ip)
• 4659[14:08:51] <ratrace> though i'm not sure to what effect, since udev prepopulating /dev already assumes the kernel touched drivers
• 4660[14:08:51] *** Joins: elios (~tba@replaced-ip)
• 4661[14:09:14] <ratrace> Jmabsd: /etc/initramfs-tools/modules
• 4662[14:09:26] *** Joins: AgTh (~b50c6@replaced-ip)
• 4663[14:09:37] <ratrace> but that's just a list of modules to load up early :: i'm not 100% sure what you're trying to achieve there?
• 4664[14:10:19] <ratrace> Jmabsd: though that modules file actually allows for module options too
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• 4666[14:10:32] <Jmabsd> ratrace: wait.. i don't follow, what add
• 4667[14:10:33] <Jmabsd> right
• 4668[14:10:53] <Jmabsd> ratrace: replaced-url
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• 4673[14:12:14] <Jmabsd> ratrace: i'll try this: echo "softdep * pre: vfio_pci" >> /etc/initramfs-tools/modules; echo "vfio_pci" >> /etc/initramfs-tools/modules; echo "vfio" >> /etc/initramfs-tools/modules; echo "vfio_iommu_type1" >> /etc/initramfs-tools/modules; echo "vfio_virqfd" >> /etc/initramfs-tools/modules
• 4674[14:12:25] <ratrace> Jmabsd: right so add each on its own line into /etc/initramfs-tools/modules
• 4675[14:12:44] <Jmabsd> yes, exactly as i quoted you now. let's see if it works
• 4676[14:12:56] <Jmabsd> followed by update-initramfs -u && update-grub && reboot.
• 4677[14:12:59] <ratrace> Jmabsd: i'm not sure about that softdep thing .. sounds like mkinitcpio specific
• 4678[14:13:07] <Jmabsd> oh aha!
• 4679[14:13:38] <ratrace> Jmabsd: no wait I'm wrong: replaced-url
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• 4682[14:14:19] <Jmabsd> ratrace: NOPE
• 4683[14:14:23] *** Joins: phwalkr (~phwalkr@replaced-ip)
• 4684[14:14:26] <Jmabsd> it still loads last
• 4685[14:14:50] <ratrace> Jmabsd: of course you ran update-initramfs -u after changing that file?
• 4686[14:14:54] <zaherdirkey> hi, i want to add to grub new boot to console instead of gui, i mean 2 boot , one with gui desktop, and with only console, i will choose console as default with timeout
• 4687[14:15:01] <Jmabsd> do I need the /etc/modprobe.d/ stuff?
• 4688[14:15:11] <zaherdirkey> is that possible, and how?
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• 4690[14:16:29] <ratrace> zaherdirkey: via /etc/grub/40_custom i think
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• 4692[14:16:49] <Jmabsd> "cp /etc/initramfs-tools/modules /etc/modprobe.d/vfio" ?
• 4693[14:16:55] <Jmabsd> RATRACE: YES
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• 4695[14:17:29] <ratrace> zaherdirkey: you need a custom entry, but to actually boot into console mode, you need to force systemd target with this kernel command line: systemd.unit=multi-user.target
• 4696[14:17:50] <ratrace> Jmabsd: sorry bud, no more ideas then
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• 4699[14:18:31] <zaherdirkey> in command line of grub?
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• 4701[14:19:04] <ratrace> zaherdirkey: yes, but if you want a custom grub entry, then in that entry only
• 4702[14:19:23] <zaherdirkey> i will try
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• 4712[14:27:39] <zaherdirkey> ratrace that works fine, ty
• 4713[14:27:59] <Jmabsd> ratrace: "update-initramfs -uv" shows me vfio and vfio-pci befor eanytihng else
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• 4717[14:30:42] <Jmabsd> ratrace,*: I can try with blacklisting the PCI driver that does take precedence..
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• 4730[14:44:35] <Jmabsd> ratrace: okay it worked finally by blacklisting the PCI driver from the grub kernel arguments
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• 4746[14:50:38] <Jmabsd> ratrace: worked! :D
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• 4755[14:57:25] <Jmabsd> how do you "live" without editing files, tell libvirt to temporarily connect an installer EFI image to use as boot medium?
• 4756[14:57:26] <ratrace> Jmabsd: awesome!
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• 4759[14:59:48] <Jmabsd> ratrace: it needed a combination of kernel arguments and the line "vfio_pci" in /etc/initramfs-tools/modules , that was all.
• 4760[14:59:59] <Jmabsd> kernel arguments are "rd.driver.pre=vfio-pci vfio_pci.ids=IDSHERE modprobe.blacklist=DRIVERNAMEHERE" .
• 4761[15:00:26] <ratrace> put it in a blog for future generations :)
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• 4772[15:04:26] <andre144k> hi all, anyone knows how to find ppd-file which cups is using for my printer?
• 4773[15:04:50] <andre144k> someone other installed this printer, and i want install a new printer whith same ppd-file
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• 4804[15:26:23] <Bushmills> andre144k: install foomatic-db-compressed-ppds and openprinting-ppds, maybe hp-ppd, then hope that they have a ppd for your undisclosed printer model.
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• 4811[15:28:27] <Jmabsd> libvirtd startup failure: ": failed to communicate with bridge helper: Transport endpoint is not connected
• 4812[15:28:27] <Jmabsd> stderr=failed to create tun device: Operation not permitted
• 4813[15:28:27] <Jmabsd> " hmmm.
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• 4820[15:32:56] <Bushmills> and there's replaced-url
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• 4826[15:37:14] <SanchoPensa> hey guys! I would politely like to ask your assistance with the followong issue: my laptop's CDROM does play discs, but with one specific one, I get vey pesky errors: " Message recipient disconnected drom message bus without replying", and syslog says: "segfault at 7fd56600f612 ip 00007fd56508d397 sp 00007fd561b206f8 error 4 in libc-2.24.so[7fd564ff9000+195000]" It is a self burned CD with singing excercises on it. why am I getting this?
• 4827[15:37:52] <SanchoPensa> or more important, how do I fix it?
• 4828[15:38:03] <bolt> How is rebooting a laptop still an issue for Linux in 2019? :(
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• 4830[15:38:29] <SanchoPensa> bolt: it isn't?
• 4831[15:38:44] <Bushmills> SanchoPensa: recorded as audio cd?
• 4832[15:39:03] <SanchoPensa> Bushmills: i suppose so, but cannot tell, since it would not mount...
• 4833[15:39:32] <Bushmills> audio cd's won't mount. some file managers simulate mounting, but it's not really mounted then
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• 4835[15:39:50] <bolt> SanchoPensa: sure is. I thought the acpi=force days were over, but I've got an Asus N552VX here, and it hangs on "reboot: machine restart". If I add "force", it shuts down, then blinks the keyboard and hangs. Worked fine on Windows. It's certainly still an issue.
• 4836[15:40:06] <Bushmills> in case of audio cd an defects on the disk, try to extract with cdparanoia
• 4837[15:40:21] <SanchoPensa> Bushmills: VLC also throws errors...
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• 4841[15:41:07] <_Cute_Kitty_> is it a bad thing that I use apt-get install instead of apt install
• 4842[15:41:14] <greycat> nope
• 4843[15:41:46] <Bushmills> _Cute_Kitty_: yes. you caused unnecessary wear on those key caps.
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• 4846[15:42:54] <SanchoPensa> Bushmills: cdparanoia says "error parsing span argument", can we conclude from that, that the CD might be a mess?
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• 4850[15:44:16] <Bushmills> nope - i reckon it's malformed arguments to cdparanoia
• 4851[15:44:30] <SanchoPensa> :D
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• 4853[15:44:50] <SanchoPensa> Bushmills: /me *checking man pages*
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• 4855[15:45:15] <Bushmills> now that sounds like a plan
• 4856[15:45:36] <greycat> You could help by telling us what cdparanoia command you typed.
• 4857[15:46:05] <greycat> Then we wouldn't have to guess whether it's a bug in cdparanoia, a hardware failure triggering unexpected behavior in cdparanoia, or just PEBKAC.
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• 4863[15:48:54] <_Cute_Kitty_> :D
• 4864[15:48:58] <_Cute_Kitty_> i've got old school techniques
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• 4867[15:49:04] <_Cute_Kitty_> because I'm a veteran
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• 4873[15:52:04] <Bushmills> you'd use dselect
• 4874[15:52:10] <SanchoPensa> Bushmills: hehehe. now, this is really incomprehensible. if not even VLC works, how in the world does cdparanoia?
• 4875[15:52:21] <greycat> voodoo
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• 4878[15:53:04] <SanchoPensa> greycat: thanks, bro, but I seem to have figured it out, tracks are as a matter of fact playable. beats me, how, though... :D
• 4879[15:53:14] <Bushmills> VLC is targetted towards playing. cdparanoia towards ripping and error recovery.
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• 4883[15:54:21] <SanchoPensa> Bushmills: I see... Thank you very much for you help, very much appreciated!
• 4884[15:54:33] <Bushmills> glad it worked
• 4885[15:54:50] <SanchoPensa> Bushmills: you have no idea, how glad I am right now. :D
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• 4895[16:04:03] <lf94> I only want to backup _some_ dot files. What's the best way to achieve this? Last night after looots of thinking, I think a simple squashfs command is the way to go periodically. Any thoughts?
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• 4898[16:04:49] <greycat> The best way is to back up all of them, because seriously, why would you not.
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• 4900[16:05:21] <lf94> Because most dot files to me are garbage generated by their respective programs
• 4901[16:05:28] <lf94> I really dont care about them
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• 4905[16:06:05] <lf94> With squashfs I can mount it over others without destroying them
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• 4922[16:09:45] <_2E0LNX> Today I have the 'fun' task of upgrading some systems at work from Wheezy to Buster...
• 4923[16:10:04] <greycat> good luck.
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• 4932[16:15:06] <jelly> _2E0LNX: reserve 1.5-2 hours per release upgrade per server ;-)
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• 4934[16:15:41] <_2E0LNX> jelly: I have 5 ssh sessions (one per system) it's running at the mo
• 4935[16:15:41] <greycat> yeah, I'm skeptical about attempting *more than one* of these threefold upgrades per day
• 4936[16:15:53] <jelly> _2E0LNX: skipping releases is not supported and will break things. Only going wheezy->jessie, jessie->stretch, stretch->buster is supported
• 4937[16:16:07] <_2E0LNX> jelly: that's the process I'm following
• 4938[16:16:17] <_2E0LNX> they're on the way to Jessie at the mo
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• 4942[16:20:07] <lf94> On another note: I am trying to become proficient at debian packaging, but also keep this knowledge over time if I don't use it often. It'd be really sweet if someone could give me some feedback: replaced-url
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• 4946[16:21:20] <jelly> lf94: perhaps also ask in #packaging channel over on irc.oftc.net for a review
• 4947[16:21:30] <lf94> Ah ok :)
• 4948[16:21:31] <lf94> will do
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• 4950[16:22:08] <jelly> if your target is eventual inclusion of packages into Debian, you can also ask in #debian-mentors, also on OTFC
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• 5021[17:07:43] <SerajewelKS> ebtables appears to be broken in buster. "ebtables --atomic-file ebtables.conf --atomic-commit" fails with: Unknown argument: 'ebtables.conf'.
• 5022[17:08:00] <SerajewelKS> but "ebtables --help" indicates that --atomic-file still exists and accepts an argument, so i'm not sure what to do with this error message
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• 5024[17:08:48] <SerajewelKS> it looks like this argument might have been removed, but the documentation still lists it
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• 5030[17:12:12] <jhutchins_wk> Isn't that fun? Docs don't match the code.
• 5031[17:12:27] <SerajewelKS> ebtables-legacy is a thing, i guess. *grumble*
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• 5035[17:13:58] <jhutchins_wk> You're working with containers, aren't you?
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• 5037[17:14:43] <SerajewelKS> no, i'm trying to block ipv6 router advertisements from going out specific bridge ports
• 5038[17:14:55] <SerajewelKS> or more specifically, only allow them going out one specific bridge port
• 5039[17:15:26] <SerajewelKS> so that i can have remote VPN access to the local network that doesn't also grant a globally-routable ipv6 address
• 5040[17:15:51] <SerajewelKS> there doesn't seem to be a way to do this in iptables because -m physdev isn't valid on OUTPUT
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• 5042[17:16:14] <SerajewelKS> and it's a broadcast packet anyway. it seems iptables is a layer too high to be able to block packets at the bridge.
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• 5044[17:18:32] <SerajewelKS> i guess i just need to migrate from ebtables-legacy to ebtables-nft. the line i'm using is "ebtables -A OUTPUT -p IPv6 --logical-out br0 -o ! eno1 --ip6-proto ipv6-icmp --ip6-icmp-type router-advertisement -j DROP"
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• 5050[17:21:33] <SerajewelKS> the best part is that i was going to fix dovecot and noticed that ssh warned me about a new ipv6 address for my server so i started poking around and realized that my local machine (which is a VPN client) had a global IPv6 address on the VPN interface
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• 5053[17:21:51] <SerajewelKS> down the rabbit hole...
• 5054[17:24:02] <Bushmills> double dash options tend to use =
• 5055[17:25:49] <SerajewelKS> if --atomic-file requires = then that would be a change from stretch
• 5056[17:26:26] <SerajewelKS> it seems that the more likely explanation is that ebtables-nft doesn't support ebtables-legacy config files and removed the options, but didn't remove them from --help output
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• 5059[17:29:20] <SerajewelKS> (note the legacy files are binary and the nft files are text)
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• 5065[17:35:23] <SerajewelKS> on another note, it bugs me how some VNC clients interpret keystrokes through the local keyboard map before sending them, while others do not. if the client interprets it then it causes me problems because i get dvorak-mapped twice, so i have to change layouts on either the local or remote end to compensate.
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• 5081[17:44:25] <SerajewelKS> wow jeez the upgrade killed my dovecot config
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• 5083[17:44:40] <SerajewelKS> but not in "doesn't work" ways, in "every message is duplicated 10k+ times in my inbox" ways
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• 5088[17:52:17] <jhutchins_wk> Fun.
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• 5092[17:52:55] <jhutchins_wk> Dovecot allways seems to come up with stupid problems. Everything else is set to mbox, let's use maildir!
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• 5095[17:53:57] <SerajewelKS> i can't tell exactly what's happening yet but it looks like the sieve plugin is borked. my best guess is that any mail that sieve acts on doesn't get removed from the queue so it keeps spewing the same message over and over
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• 5097[17:55:28] <SerajewelKS> and even after disabling sieve it looks like it's still happening
• 5098[17:55:30] <SerajewelKS> O_o
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• 5106[17:56:45] <SerajewelKS> aha no the problem appears to be related to getmail, it's delivering mail but the LDA is returning failure or something, so it's retrying an already-delivered message
• 5107[17:56:49] <SerajewelKS> oh this is gonna be fun to clean up
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• 5115[18:02:01] <SerajewelKS> well there it is: net_connect_unix(/var/run/dovecot/stats-writer) failed: Permission denied
• 5116[18:02:12] <SerajewelKS> so it delivers the mail then goes to write statistics? and fails.
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• 5176[18:35:08] <bolthorn> hi
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• 5180[18:36:55] <dvs> oi
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• 5182[18:37:06] <bolthorn> dvs: eai
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• 5204[18:46:20] <omarek> Hi, after swapping a motherboard, internet connection works on Debian Live (buster) but not on my system loaded from hard drive (debian testing). I don't know what to do.
• 5205[18:46:38] *** Joins: cbthree (~cbthree@replaced-ip)
• 5206[18:46:40] <omarek> I used to perform "sudo dhclient eth0" but now I'm getting "no such device"
• 5207[18:47:02] <SerajewelKS> omarek: the interface name probably changed. run "ip link" to see a list of available interfaces.
• 5208[18:47:03] <greycat> omarek: use "ip link" to see the names of the interfaces, then adjust /etc/network/interfaces accordingly if you're using that file.
• 5209[18:47:07] *** Quits: sweatsuit (~sweatsuit@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 5210[18:47:09] <omarek> ip addr show and ip link show do display some interfaces.
• 5211[18:47:43] <cbthree> nvz, could you please help me compile a bug report?
• 5212[18:49:32] <towo`> omarek, rm -f /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules reboot done
• 5213[18:49:48] <omarek> towo`: what does that do?
• 5214[18:49:57] <SerajewelKS> probably nothing since the old interface is gone
• 5215[18:50:08] <greycat> towo`: he also needs to edit /e/n/i unless he's using NetworkMangler
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• 5217[18:50:19] <greycat> or that other thing whose name I forget
• 5218[18:50:21] <towo`> greycat, normaly not
• 5219[18:50:22] <omarek> greycat: SerajewelKS: replaced-url
• 5220[18:50:41] <omarek> The output of lspci, ip link show, ip addr show
• 5221[18:50:43] <SerajewelKS> greycat: wicd?
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• 5223[18:50:48] <greycat> connman. that's the other thing.
• 5224[18:50:52] <SerajewelKS> ah
• 5225[18:51:12] <SerajewelKS> omarek: so it's probably enp3s0 which already appears to be configured by something
• 5226[18:51:20] <greycat> and I guess there's some systemd thing also, but of course nobody in their right mind would turn on an optional part of systemd
• 5227[18:51:28] <omarek> greycat: I remember checking /etc/network/interfaces and it's something about auto detection, nothing is written there statically.
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• 5233[18:55:13] <Guest75204> Hey guys
• 5234[18:55:18] <Guest75204> quick question
• 5235[18:55:30] <dvs> maybe
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• 5237[18:55:35] <cbthree> if nvz can not help me compile a bug report, can anyone help this newbie to do so?
• 5238[18:55:46] <greycat> !bts
• 5239[18:55:47] <dpkg> Bug Tracking System for Debian packages, replaced-url
• 5240[18:56:12] <Guest75204> From my understanding, it appears that you cannot have an Optimus laptop running in modesetting (NVIDIA only) and use DisplayLink at the same time
• 5241[18:56:15] <Guest75204> Is that true?
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• 5244[18:56:35] <cbthree> no bots please, only actual people helping me compile the bug report step by step
• 5245[18:56:58] <greycat> *plonk*
• 5246[18:57:02] <ratrace> hahahahaha
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• 5250[18:58:20] <kreyren> ,v file ipaddr
• 5251[18:58:21] <judd> Package: file on amd64 -- jessie: 1:5.22+15-2+deb8u4; jessie-security: 1:5.22+15-2+deb8u5; stretch-security: 1:5.30-1+deb9u1; stretch: 1:5.30-1+deb9u2; buster: 1:5.35-4; bullseye: 1:5.37-5; sid: 1:5.37-5
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• 5260[19:03:25] <omarek> greycat: You know Debian actually benefits from bug reports getting filled.
• 5261[19:04:04] *** Quits: TomyWork (~TomyLobo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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• 5264[19:04:28] <omarek> greycat: So even if sometimes there's a visitor who needs handholding, perhaps it's a net gain?
• 5265[19:04:59] <greycat> Then you should immediately hop on an airplane and fly to wherever cbthree is, and sit with them all night and all day until their bug report is complete.
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• 5267[19:06:14] <omarek> greycat: I can come up with a more absurd alternative to pretend there's no middle ground.
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• 5269[19:07:11] <greycat> There are instructions for filing a bug report, on the Debian web site, and on the wiki. cbthree refused to read them. They wanted to be hand-held and spoon-fed through the entire thing. I am not going to do that.
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• 5272[19:07:34] <greycat> !vampire
• 5273[19:07:34] <dpkg> [vampire] see: replaced-url
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• 5278[19:09:43] <ratrace> fun read!
• 5279[19:09:59] <ratrace> i have to bookmark that one. that's so true...
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• 5284[19:10:53] <omarek> I refuse to help people for whom trivial googling was apparently too hard. If they can't type a basic google question, they're beyond helping.
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• 5286[19:11:34] <omarek> greycat: That's basically any chick in existence.
• 5287[19:11:53] <greycat> "I'm filing a bug report, my problem is ____, but I don't know which package to file against." would be a very acceptable question.
• 5288[19:12:15] <ddelony> If you have to be spoon-fed things, *nix probably isn't for you.
• 5289[19:12:16] <greycat> "I need a human to guide me through the process, do not send me any automated responses, do not send me any links to read." is not.
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• 5296[19:14:23] <ddelony> omarek: There are plenty of women *nix users out there.
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• 5298[19:14:54] <omarek> ddelony: I was talking more in a general sense.
• 5299[19:15:00] <cbthree> greycat, that is one of the questions
• 5300[19:15:44] <omarek> By the way, in my CS class there were 3 girls. None of them could resist the temptation to let guys do their programming homeworks.
• 5301[19:16:03] <dvs> ...
• 5302[19:16:04] <greycat> Let's not stereotype half the human race, please.
• 5303[19:16:09] <cbthree> omarek, google is not your friend. Have you heard of Prism?
• 5304[19:17:07] <cbthree> ddelony, patronising newbies seems to be very you
• 5305[19:17:16] *** Joins: Newami (~Newami@replaced-ip)
• 5306[19:18:19] <omarek> cbthree: Perhaps ddg is a viable alternative. But for email, I'm afraid there isn't one. Not since fastmail.fm succumbed.
• 5307[19:18:21] <ddelony> cbthree: I didn't mean to come across that way.
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• 5310[19:18:42] <cbthree> ddelony, apology accepted
• 5311[19:19:39] <ddelony> Gatekeeping is annoying. Unix-like systems are still pretty much "by prpgrammers, for programmers" if you want to interact with the system directly.
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• 5315[19:20:43] <ddelony> And if you pay any attention to your OS, you're probably pretty geeky already. ;-)
• 5316[19:21:04] <ratrace> no need to be a programmer, but some basic desire to *read* from manuals and documentasion is very much required.
• 5317[19:21:12] *** Joins: leandrovianna__ (~leandrovi@replaced-ip)
• 5318[19:21:15] <ratrace> /documentation/
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• 5320[19:21:54] <cbthree> omarek, i use a webmail provider (not gmail) which i believe does not allow you to use Thunderbird to send/receive email.
• 5321[19:22:21] <ddelony> ratrace: That's what I meant. You won't get very far with *nix, or in IT n general, if you have to pester everybody with questions.
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• 5324[19:22:35] <ddelony> *IT in general.*
• 5325[19:22:43] *** Parts: codc (~Kai@replaced-ip) ()
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• 5327[19:23:17] <ratrace> if the questions are posed after the minimum effort to help yourself is made, they're not the problem. lack of will to do it yourself first, is.
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• 5330[19:23:55] <cbthree> ratrace, the man pages are very cryptic and i have not found any debian 10 info on my actual computer which is a *very* popular chromebook model
• 5331[19:24:31] <ddelony> That's man pages for you. :-p
• 5332[19:24:41] *** Joins: Prints (~333@replaced-ip)
• 5333[19:24:52] <cbthree> ddelony, cryptic stuff written in geeko
• 5334[19:25:01] <ratrace> cbthree: i was speaking in general, i'm actually not aware what your problem is
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• 5336[19:25:52] <ratrace> unfortunately, fiddling with DIY operating systems on hardware not designed to run random operating system, falls under "cryptic" and "geeko".
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• 5338[19:26:11] <cbthree> Has anyone here who owns a Samsung Chromebook 3 (CELES) managed to get its microsd slot working? If you insert a card *before* boot, that card shows up (automounted) and works kind of ok. If you unmount the card and reinsert it, its not automounted, you have to mount it using the command line. Moreover, if you insert the card *after* you boot it is neither recognized nor automounted and cannot be mounted using the CLI
• 5339[19:26:19] *** Quits: Casperkiller (~Casperkil@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 5340[19:26:22] <omarek> Speaking of man pages, I didn't learn to really use them until I learned using vim.
• 5341[19:26:31] <cbthree> i believe i am facing the issue as follows : replaced-url
• 5342[19:26:34] <greycat> At a bare minimum, it is going to require some work, much of which will involve reading things on web pages.
• 5343[19:26:42] <omarek> Vim is almost a pre-requisite to use man pages.
• 5344[19:26:46] <ddelony> I'm also running Debian on a Chromebook via Crostini. :-)
• 5345[19:26:50] *** Joins: chrissl (~chris@replaced-ip)
• 5346[19:26:54] <omarek> All the important keys are from vim.
• 5347[19:27:20] <greycat> omarek: you're talking about less(1), the pager. You're kinda sorta right, but you can get by with just space bar, b, and q.
• 5348[19:27:28] <ddelony> Oh, great, we're having an editor war, too. :-D
• 5349[19:27:38] <ratrace> where do you see war...
• 5350[19:27:45] <cbthree> ddelony, i do not use crostini
• 5351[19:27:49] *** Joins: timur_davletshin (~timur_dav@replaced-ip)
• 5352[19:28:04] <ddelony> Crouton?
• 5353[19:28:09] <greycat> one can also read man pages online. for example, replaced-url
• 5354[19:28:21] *** Joins: hamechi (~hamechi@replaced-ip)
• 5355[19:28:21] <omarek> The final thing I need to finish my trolling is reboot my machine and try fixing the internet...
• 5356[19:28:43] <ddelony> Lots of other *nix systems have manpages on the web too.
• 5357[19:28:50] <omarek> Accidantal trolling is the best, for example I once called Rust a 'hobby language' on #rust
• 5358[19:28:55] <ratrace> good luck fixing the internet, unless you meant internet *connection* :)
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• 5361[19:30:34] <cbthree> ddelony, i installed Custom coreboot Firmware (Full ROM) which was a newbie friendly procedure and then debian 10.
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• 5365[19:31:24] <cbthree> ddelony, replaced-url
• 5366[19:31:29] <bogus-> what keys are there to learn in man except / and q?
• 5367[19:31:46] <greycat> It's not "in man". It's "in less".
• 5368[19:32:00] <greycat> and less implements a fairly large subset of the vi commands, as hinted earlier
• 5369[19:32:01] <bogus-> potato potato
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• 5371[19:32:25] <ddelony> cbthree: Interesting.
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• 5373[19:32:59] <cbthree> guys, please stop bickering and start helping this newbie. We all know that using a free version of vi is not a sin but penance
• 5374[19:33:20] <ratrace> there's that entitlement again...
• 5375[19:33:44] <ddelony> I just use Vim because I find it more comfortable using it on my laptop.
• 5376[19:33:45] <cbthree> ratrace, i am not entitled to a refund. the chromebook was a gift
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• 5379[19:34:35] <greycat> familiarity with the basic commands in both emacs and vi will serve you well, in general
• 5380[19:34:50] <greycat> *many* things use some subset of one of those
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• 5382[19:35:40] <ddelony> Bash and zsh use Emacs bindings by default in the command-line editing.
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• 5385[19:36:32] <greycat> (with vi bindings as an option)
• 5386[19:36:49] <cbthree> how i can i file a bug report using webmail that does not allow you send/receive email if you do not use the provider's webmail interface?
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• 5389[19:37:33] <cbthree> ddelony, what is you chromebook model?
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• 5391[19:38:09] <bogus-> cbthree, do you mean a web interface for an imap server?
• 5392[19:38:47] *** Quits: polman (~ananevtem@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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• 5396[19:39:03] <ddelony> cbthree: ASUS Chromebook Flip C213S
• 5397[19:39:59] <SerajewelKS> after adding my user to a new group, is there a way to get my user's systemd to add this group to the effective list of groups?
• 5398[19:40:21] <crn> i need a terminal that supports cut and paste. xterm is ok, but i need more help editing.
• 5399[19:40:43] <crn> for debian 10
• 5400[19:41:36] <SerajewelKS> crn: most desktop environments provide a terminal, which DE are you using?
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• 5403[19:42:50] <greycat> What do you mean by "supports cut and paste"? What are you trying to do, exactly, that X11's regular copying and pasting doesn't do?
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• 5407[19:46:09] <ratrace> i think they mean Ctrl-V specifically, which not all terms do. Ctrl-Shift-V is most common, and Ctrl-Ins, as well as middle click
• 5408[19:46:27] <ratrace> eh, Shift+Ins, sorry
• 5409[19:46:27] <crn> ratrace, right
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• 5411[19:46:49] <greycat> Shift+Insert is the most likely to work in a terminal.
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• 5413[19:47:05] <greycat> If for some reason you can't just use the middle mouse button, which is the normal way it's done in X11.
• 5414[19:47:10] *** Joins: AimHere (~David@replaced-ip)
• 5415[19:47:32] *** Joins: vivid (~ViViD@replaced-ip)
• 5416[19:47:39] <crn> i dont have a middle button.
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• 5418[19:47:57] *** 18VAA3T2A is now known as skittle_
• 5419[19:48:07] <crn> maybe clicking both keys
• 5420[19:48:18] <ratrace> crn: no scroll wheel?
• 5421[19:48:29] <greycat> that would be a reason, I suppose. if you have a scroll-wheel-mouse, pressing on the wheel (instead of turning the wheel) activates the middle button, but it can be REALLY friggin' annoying to try to do that without accidentally turning the wheel
• 5422[19:48:46] *** Joins: annadane (~annadane@replaced-ip)
• 5423[19:48:55] <cbthree> My webmail service provider answer to the question "Can I retrieve my emails via IMAP to another email client?" is "This is not possible"
• 5424[19:48:55] *** Joins: dannyboy35 (~mark@replaced-ip)
• 5425[19:48:55] *** Quits: BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 5426[19:49:15] <dannyboy35> i am dual booting debian and arch how can i chroot from debian into arch?
• 5427[19:49:24] *** Joins: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip)
• 5428[19:49:37] <cbthree> so my question remains the same: how can i newbie file a debian bug report?
• 5429[19:49:58] <greycat> mount the arch root file system somewhere, then chroot into it with the chroot command.
• 5430[19:50:03] <ratrace> cbthree: what does your email provider have to do with submitting bugs to debian?
• 5431[19:50:19] <pasiz> cbthree: what bug do you have found on your debian installation
• 5432[19:50:41] <dannyboy35> replaced-url
• 5433[19:50:42] <SerajewelKS> cbthree: you can sent a properly-formatted email to the BTS
• 5434[19:50:46] <avu> cbthree: replaced-url
• 5435[19:50:46] <crn> ratrace, yes that i have. It serves as a middle key? ill give it a try.
• 5436[19:50:54] <dannyboy35> greycat, thats my question how do i mount arch?
• 5437[19:51:13] <dannyboy35> greycat, im not finding anything that looks like it in /dev or /media
• 5438[19:51:16] <greycat> with the mount command.
• 5439[19:51:23] <ratrace> crn: it should, yes, on most mice
• 5440[19:51:28] *** Joins: BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip)
• 5441[19:51:32] <greycat> you will need to know the device that the root file system is on.
• 5442[19:51:34] <SerajewelKS> dannyboy35: lsblk will show you the available block devices, if one of them is your arch root then you can mount it
• 5443[19:51:51] *** Quits: flurp (~flrp@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 5444[19:51:51] <dannyboy35> i know that its my internal drive
• 5445[19:51:59] <greycat> which *partition* on the drive?
• 5446[19:52:15] *** Joins: flurp (~flrp@replaced-ip)
• 5447[19:52:37] <dannyboy35> thats a good question
• 5448[19:52:46] <avu> dannyboy35: if you're not sure about the partition layout, you can have a look with `fdisk -l /dev/foo`
• 5449[19:52:52] *** Quits: BrianG61UK_ (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 5450[19:52:54] <pasiz> lsblk helps
• 5451[19:53:01] *** Quits: electro33 (uid613@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
• 5452[19:53:07] <dannyboy35> i know that
• 5453[19:53:07] <pasiz> dannyboy35: if you run lsblk, you see your partitions
• 5454[19:53:17] *** Joins: electro33 (uid613@replaced-ip)
• 5455[19:53:20] <dannyboy35> im just not sure which parition i put it on since they are not named
• 5456[19:53:24] <greycat> choose one that is not currently mounted, and mount it, and then see what you've caught
• 5457[19:53:39] <greycat> if it's not the one you want, unmount it, and repeat
• 5458[19:53:39] <dannyboy35> lol that makes sense
• 5459[19:53:45] *** Joins: hamechi (~hamechi@replaced-ip)
• 5460[19:53:47] <cbthree> reportbug needs some email configuration to send the report
• 5461[19:54:03] <dannyboy35> <<< tends to overthink obvious easy things
• 5462[19:54:12] <avu> cbthree: you don't need to use reportbug, you can send the email directly, see replaced-url
• 5463[19:54:13] <crn> ratrace, greycat, it works. ive had this mouse for years. thanks.
• 5464[19:54:17] <annadane> you should have *some* idea which is the arch entry in lsblk based on size
• 5465[19:54:18] <dannyboy35> cbthree, the link i sent you will tell you how to do it
• 5466[19:54:37] <dannyboy35> google is your friend :P
• 5467[19:54:39] <pasiz> cbthree: linux kernel bugs doesn't belong to debian bug list
• 5468[19:54:56] <Bushmills> wow...
• 5469[19:55:10] <Bushmills> and it's not even weekend yet
• 5470[19:55:13] <greycat> pasiz: unless they went to the trouble of verifying it with a non-Debian kernel, it *is* appropriate to file it in Debian
• 5471[19:55:21] <cbthree> dannyboy35, , google is not your friend. Have you heard of Prism?
• 5472[19:55:34] <jhutchins_wk> pasiz: Actually, it's often best to file your bugs with your distro and let the maintainers push them upstream.
• 5473[19:56:04] <ratrace> cbthree: no alternative search engine you could use?
• 5474[19:56:11] <cbthree> searx
• 5475[19:56:13] <jhutchins_wk> pasiz: Your first response from upstrteam is likely to be "can you reproduce it from our current source code".
• 5476[19:56:31] *** Joins: BrianG61UK_ (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip)
• 5477[19:56:36] <koollman> or at least 'can you reproduce it with a vanilla kernel' :)
• 5478[19:56:47] *** Quits: BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 5479[19:57:06] <cbthree> jhutchins_wk, how is a newbie supposed to answer upstream?
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• 5482[19:57:26] *** Joins: omarek (~b0rsuk@replaced-ip)
• 5483[19:57:36] <jhutchins_wk> cbthree: That's my point, you're not. Deal with the maintainers.
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• 5488[19:58:14] <omarek> Hi, after something like 2 weeks I finally managed to fix my hard drive's GPT (testdisk - write) and internet connection.
• 5489[19:58:26] *** Joins: BrianG61UK__ (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip)
• 5490[19:58:29] <cbthree> jhutchins_wk, the bug report seems somewhat convoluted
• 5491[19:58:44] <cbthree> jhutchins_wk, the bug report *procedure* seems somewhat convoluted
• 5492[19:59:21] <jhutchins_wk> cbthree: It's supposed to be, there needs to be enough pertinent information for somebody to triage it.
• 5493[19:59:57] <cbthree> jhutchins_wk, that is exactly my point, that is the bug report procedure is not newbie friendly
• 5494[20:00:08] <koollman> cbthree: which procedure ?
• 5495[20:00:15] <jhutchins_wk> cbthree: It also needs to make sure that the reporter knows enough to tell whether it's actually a bug.
• 5496[20:00:23] <cbthree> replaced-url
• 5497[20:00:36] <SerajewelKS> the procedure where you send an email and you say "the bug is in this package, this version, and here's a description?" that procedure? that's "convoluted?"
• 5498[20:00:38] <cbthree> jhutchins_wk, exactly
• 5499[20:00:49] *** Quits: Theroxat (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 5500[20:01:11] <koollman> cbthree: "run reportbug, answer questions" ? :)
• 5501[20:01:33] *** Quits: BrianG61UK_ (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 5502[20:01:39] <koollman> cbthree: notice that the normal procedure described there is about 5 lines. the rest of the page is the 'advanced' procedure
• 5503[20:01:43] <cbthree> i am unable to determine which package the bug report should be filed against and therefore would have to go through the mailing list and stuff
• 5504[20:01:54] *** Joins: Theroxat (~quassel@replaced-ip)
• 5505[20:02:00] <cbthree> gotta go. will be back later
• 5506[20:02:07] <pasiz> hard procedure. Don't advice to play solitaire when waiting response...
• 5507[20:02:12] *** Quits: cbthree (~cbthree@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 5508[20:03:26] *** Joins: orbiter (~orbiter@replaced-ip)
• 5509[20:03:38] <omarek> The fixing of internet connection involved putting the automatic DHCP recipe into /etc/network/interfaces, and replacing occurences of 'eth0' with whatever 'ip addr' shows.
• 5510[20:03:52] *** Quits: BrianG61UK__ (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 5511[20:05:33] <dannyboy35> do i have to install chroot?
• 5512[20:06:04] <greycat> it's in coreutils, so no
• 5513[20:06:21] *** Joins: BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip)
• 5514[20:08:40] *** Joins: zerotech (~zerotech@replaced-ip)
• 5515[20:09:33] <Bushmills> but you may want to bind mount /proc, /sys and /dev into the respective directories
• 5516[20:09:45] <greycat> !chroot
• 5517[20:09:45] <dpkg> To chroot into your Debian system boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2). Mount your root filesystem with "mount -t ext2 /dev/whatever /target" and make /dev, /proc and /sys usable with "mount --rbind --make-rslave /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys". You can then chroot into the system with "chroot /target".
• 5518[20:09:50] <Bushmills> arch directories ...
• 5519[20:10:04] <greycat> that's a thing we can worry about once the actual mounting is done
• 5520[20:12:45] * jhutchins_wk hasn't seen the rbind and make-rslave options before.
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• 5525[20:14:16] <annadane> i have a general question of hardware, maybe not debian specific. is it possible to get totally FLOSS everything in a machine, such that one doesn't even need a proprietary microcode package?
• 5526[20:14:18] *** Quits: lucad111 (~lucad111@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 5527[20:14:36] <annadane> i guess that's The Last Hard Problem
• 5528[20:15:14] <jhutchins_wk> annadane: You can, but only by selecting the right hardware, which can be hard to know.
• 5529[20:15:31] *** Joins: holmgren (~magnus@replaced-ip)
• 5530[20:15:35] <Bushmills> rtisc-v may be a candiate CPU core. alternatively maybe MIPS based designs.
• 5531[20:15:44] <jhutchins_wk> annadane: Obviously the hard-cores like Stallman have done it.
• 5532[20:15:48] <Bushmills> but flash and RAM are hard to get without any IP
• 5533[20:15:52] *** Joins: zoredache (sid295808@replaced-ip)
• 5534[20:16:08] <annadane> i guess i'll settle in the short term by getting AMD and avoiding nvidia
• 5535[20:16:31] <jhutchins_wk> annadane: intel usually doesn't need firmware.
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• 5539[20:17:38] <annadane> i've heard maybe AMD needs firmware-misc-nonfree for some things
• 5540[20:17:46] <annadane> or sorry, not that package... a related one
• 5541[20:18:15] *** Joins: BrianG61UK_ (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip)
• 5542[20:18:17] <annadane> as a company though i'd rather support AMD... but off topic
• 5543[20:18:18] <Bushmills> I understand "totally FLOSS everything in a machine" as "everything", not just software.
• 5544[20:18:22] <greycat> jhutchins_wk: *recent* intel video does use external firmware.
• 5545[20:18:37] *** Quits: BrianG61UK_ (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 5546[20:18:41] <greycat> [ 4.067470] i915 0000:00:02.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware i915/skl_dmc_ver1_27.bin
• 5547[20:19:15] <ratrace> annadane: yes, see Raptor Talos
• 5548[20:19:19] *** Quits: BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 5549[20:19:23] <greycat> and if you're using intel video, you're probably using an intel cpu, which means you also need intel-microcode
• 5550[20:19:26] *** Quits: esro (~esro@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 5551[20:19:30] *** Joins: belanthor (~belan@replaced-ip)
• 5552[20:19:31] <greycat> which was specifically what she wanted to avoid
• 5553[20:19:48] <annadane> Talos™ II Secure Workstation
• 5554[20:19:48] <annadane> Starting at $6,064.00
• 5555[20:19:56] <annadane> yeah, to be expected, i guess
• 5556[20:19:59] <ratrace> welp, price wasn't part of the question :)
• 5557[20:19:59] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: For certain values of "need". I've run systems into the ground that complained about the CPU microcode their whole lives.
• 5558[20:20:19] <greycat> jhutchins_wk: then you're running with unfixed/unmitigated bugs
• 5559[20:20:25] *** Joins: Freshnuts (~Freshnuts@replaced-ip)
• 5560[20:20:34] <greycat> and it
• 5561[20:20:39] <ratrace> annadane: but there are cheaper offerings. point being the IBM Power9 arch which is supposed to be fully open sourced, from bios through cpu and software run on it
• 5562[20:20:44] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: Or features I'll never use.
• 5563[20:20:46] <annadane> i guess i really just answered my own question, really. AMD is known to play nice and everyone else isn't
• 5564[20:20:51] <greycat> and it's not like you don't HAVE microcode in your CPU -- you just have OLD microcode.
• 5565[20:21:32] *** Joins: weedloser (~pabu@replaced-ip)
• 5566[20:21:34] <annadane> anyone using intel is going to be hit very hard by spectre/meltdown mitigations
• 5567[20:21:39] <annadane> in terms of performance
• 5568[20:21:41] <koollman> pick your poison :)
• 5569[20:21:54] *** Joins: SniperCZE (~SniperCZE@replaced-ip)
• 5570[20:22:12] <jhutchins_wk> There are also the Intel 1G network chipsets that will complain about firmware, but which only actually use it in certain server-targeted implementations.
• 5571[20:22:21] *** Joins: b|ack0p (~m@replaced-ip)
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• 5573[20:22:34] <dvs> annadane, AMD has some spectre mitigations as well.
• 5574[20:22:39] *** Joins: kupi (uid212005@replaced-ip)
• 5575[20:22:43] <annadane> "some", maybe
• 5576[20:22:55] *** Quits: b|ack0p (~m@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
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• 5578[20:23:18] *** Joins: cbthree (~cbthree@replaced-ip)
• 5579[20:25:39] <weedloser> not maybe
• 5580[20:25:42] <koollman> annadane: I have yet to see any hard hit. (except if you disable smt, of course)
• 5581[20:25:42] <weedloser> they have
• 5582[20:26:03] <annadane> i was implying that it's probably not as much as intel
• 5583[20:26:04] <weedloser> not affected as badly as intel performance wise
• 5584[20:26:13] <annadane> right. so, *some*, sure
• 5585[20:26:15] <weedloser> but it still vuln
• 5586[20:26:19] <annadane> but AMD is clearly in a better situation
• 5587[20:26:28] <weedloser> well, yeah
• 5588[20:26:49] <weedloser> intel 10nm is mitigated at hardware level
• 5589[20:26:57] *** Joins: Bodiro (~quassel@replaced-ip)
• 5590[20:27:36] *** Joins: cluelessperson (ac5c8cfe@replaced-ip)
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• 5593[20:28:11] <annadane> i won't replace my current system but when nvidia stops supporting my card i am not buying nvidia again
• 5594[20:28:23] <dvs> yay!
• 5595[20:28:36] <annadane> can't really complain on a technical level, it's fine in buster
• 5596[20:28:47] *** Joins: BaW (~BaW@replaced-ip)
• 5597[20:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1496
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• 5601[20:30:07] <cluelessperson> So, suppose I want to have the skills to repackage and deliver my own built debian based system.
• 5602[20:30:35] <cluelessperson> I'm imagining that I'd have to mirror the git repos for all the base packages, and setup a build system to build them into an apt repo.
• 5603[20:30:47] <cluelessperson> Then configure my own base image with my own repo, does that sound right?
• 5604[20:30:56] *** Joins: b|ack0p (~m@replaced-ip)
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• 5606[20:31:32] *** Quits: ensamvarg (~ensamvarg@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 5607[20:31:37] <humpled> you just need live-build
• 5608[20:32:13] *** Quits: Bodiro (~quassel@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ##replaced-url
• 5609[20:32:14] *** Joins: przemoc (~przemoc@replaced-ip)
• 5610[20:32:17] <Bushmills> !pure_blend
• 5611[20:32:25] <humpled> there is some local apt mirror thing you can do too
• 5612[20:32:36] <humpled> pure blend sounds like a contradiction in terms
• 5613[20:33:07] <cbthree> i issued the command reportbug and i am at the stage as follows: Please enter the name of the package in which you have found a problem, or type 'other' to report a more general problem. If you don't know what package the bug is in, please contact debian-user@lists.debian.org for assistance.
• 5614[20:33:13] <weedloser> AMD is overrated IMO.
• 5615[20:33:15] <Bushmills> replaced-url
• 5616[20:33:26] <cbthree> i do not know the name of the package
• 5617[20:33:36] <annadane> AMD is still ethically the right company to support, which is important to me
• 5618[20:33:44] <weedloser> it's not ethical
• 5619[20:33:46] <weedloser> at all
• 5620[20:34:13] <cbthree> and weedloser, we are all sinners!
• 5621[20:34:14] <EmleyMoor> cbthree: Describe the bug
• 5622[20:34:14] <weedloser> AMDGPU is only much better than it's previous proprietary driver
• 5623[20:34:20] <weedloser> not really better than intel
• 5624[20:34:31] <weedloser> nvidia performance is great, could be better with openbsd
• 5625[20:34:37] <weedloser> i mean open source
• 5626[20:34:39] <weedloser> oops
• 5627[20:35:23] *** Joins: mimi89999 (cb2cbfa643@replaced-ip)
• 5628[20:35:35] <weedloser> AMD being 'ethical' is a joke
• 5629[20:35:44] <weedloser> it contributes back nothing in comparison to intel
• 5630[20:35:50] <weedloser> and firmware is buggy as hell.
• 5631[20:35:56] *** Quits: ilmostro (~ilmostro@replaced-ip) (Quit: Coyote finally caught me)
• 5632[20:36:06] <annadane> according to you. i've heard other opinions
• 5633[20:36:17] <annadane> cbthree, describe the bug and we can tell you what to file it against
• 5634[20:36:22] *** Joins: zebulen (~moe@replaced-ip)
• 5635[20:36:28] <annadane> it's not the worst thing if you file it against the wrong package, they'll just assign it
• 5636[20:36:37] <cbthree> I have a Samsung Chromebook 3 (CELES) an the microsd slot is not working properly. If you insert a card *before* boot, that card shows up (automounted) and works kind of ok. If you unmount the card and reinsert it, its not automounted, you have to mount it using the command line. Moreover, if you insert the card *after* you boot it is neither recognized nor automounted and cannot be mounted using the CLI
• 5637[20:36:37] *** Joins: grobi (~rtng@replaced-ip)
• 5638[20:36:58] <cbthree> annadane, i believe i am facing the issue as follows : replaced-url
• 5639[20:37:02] *** Joins: womanAtHome (~womanAtHo@replaced-ip)
• 5640[20:37:09] * weedloser waits for intel 10nm desktop and intel dgpu's.
• 5641[20:37:25] <weedloser> still happily running haswell :)
• 5642[20:37:57] *** Quits: Theroxat (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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• 5644[20:38:22] <mimi89999> Hello
• 5645[20:38:54] <mimi89999> I have a XEN DomU that is freezing every ~24h after updating Dom0 to Debian 10 Buster
• 5646[20:39:13] <mimi89999> I found replaced-url
• 5647[20:39:14] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 5648[20:39:15] *** Joins: _chaplin_ (~chaplin@replaced-ip)
• 5649[20:39:18] <annadane> cbthree, i guess file it against mount, for now
• 5650[20:39:30] <annadane> if it's wrong they'll just reassign the bug
• 5651[20:39:42] <cbthree> annadane, dmesgs says: sdhci-pci 0000:00:12.0: failed to setup card detect gpio
• 5652[20:39:53] <annadane> don't know, sorry, not an expert
• 5653[20:40:03] <SerajewelKS> seems very much like a kernel problem
• 5654[20:40:22] <annadane> it could also be a kernel problem. that's a better idea
• 5655[20:40:23] <SerajewelKS> mount has little to do with it
• 5656[20:40:26] *** Quits: zebulen (~moe@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 5657[20:40:29] <mimi89999> I tried setting `gnttab_max_frames=64` in Dom0 parameters, but Dom0 `max_nr_frames=64` and my DomU still has `max_nr_frames=32`
• 5658[20:40:39] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip) ("vergissmeinnicht")
• 5659[20:40:39] <SerajewelKS> it sounds like the block device doesn't even exist unless a card was there at boot, that's on the kernel not userspace utilities
• 5660[20:40:57] *** Joins: ilmostro (~ilmostro@replaced-ip)
• 5661[20:41:11] <cbthree> SerajewelKS, how can a newbie solve the issue?
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• 5663[20:42:00] *** Joins: barteks2x (~barteks2x@replaced-ip)
• 5664[20:42:20] <SerajewelKS> cbthree: not sure a newbie can. it's probably a bug in the kernel module that handles this particular card reader.
• 5665[20:42:36] <SerajewelKS> cbthree: all you can do is file a bug against the kernel. unless you want to learn about kernel development.
• 5666[20:42:37] <cbthree> SerajewelKS, so what can i do?
• 5667[20:43:12] <cbthree> filing a bug report is very convoluted for a newbie
• 5668[20:43:13] *** Quits: _chaplin_ (~chaplin@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 5669[20:43:21] <ratrace> you can give up.
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• 5672[20:43:49] <koollman> if it's really the same bug, definitely kernel, if there's nothing mentionned in dmesg when you plug it
• 5673[20:44:00] <SerajewelKS> sending an email is not convoluted unless you don't know how to send an email
• 5674[20:44:16] *** Joins: VadPerevad (~vadpereva@replaced-ip)
• 5675[20:44:22] <Bushmills> but "unless" seems to apply here
• 5676[20:44:34] <mimi89999> Anybody?
• 5677[20:44:46] <koollman> don't even need to know how to send an email, if reportbug can send it :)
• 5678[20:44:50] <cbthree> ratrace, i tried to file a bug report but i am stuck at: Please enter the name of the package in which you have found a problem, or type 'other' to report a more general problem. If you don't know what package the bug is in, please contact debian-user@lists.debian.org for assistance.
• 5679[20:45:14] <cbthree> That means that i MUST join the mailing list
• 5680[20:45:15] <Bushmills> "must use provider web mailer", something like that
• 5681[20:45:16] <koollman> cbthree: linux-image
• 5682[20:45:40] <cbthree> koollman, i do not understand
• 5683[20:45:40] <b|ack0p> i customized Grub menu but Advanced Options menu is not effected by my custom theme/colors
• 5684[20:45:44] *** Quits: tyranny12 (~blarg@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 5685[20:45:48] <koollman> cbthree: that's the package name
• 5686[20:45:54] <b|ack0p> how can i apply same to Grub>Advanced OPtions menu?
• 5687[20:46:15] <koollman> cbthree: you can check exact version with : dpkg -l | grep linux-image. (and also check the version in: uname -r )
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• 5693[20:47:06] <cbthree> koollman, so the name of the package is: 4.19.0-5-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.37-5+deb10u2 (2019-08-08) x86_64 GNU/Linux
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• 5695[20:47:44] <koollman> cbthree: that's the version, not the name
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• 5697[20:47:50] <cbthree> koollman, or just linux-image-4.19.0-5-amd64?
• 5698[20:48:09] <koollman> cbthree: yes. you can use this name
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• 5701[20:48:39] <koollman> cbthree: what do you have in : dpkg -l | grep linux-image ?
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• 5705[20:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1504
• 5706[20:49:08] <cluelessperson> @hum
• 5707[20:49:23] <cluelessperson> humpled no, I don't just need live build.
• 5708[20:49:45] <cluelessperson> live build is for making live images. I need to version control the source control and build it all, not just refactor images.
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• 5711[20:50:59] <plantroon> anybody using Linphone app on Debian?
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• 5715[20:52:11] <Bushmills> do you?
• 5716[20:52:35] *** Quits: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 5717[20:53:32] <cbthree> koollman, there seem to be a newer kernel 4.19 version (linux-image-4.19.0-6-amd64) for debian 10 according to reportbug but when tried to install it apt-get could not find 4.19.0-6-amd64 in the repo
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• 5719[20:54:15] <shibboleth> anyone using xfreerdp? i can copy/paste files *towards* the rdp server but i can't copy files on the server and paste it in say... nautilus/"gnome explorer"
• 5720[20:54:22] <plantroon> yes I do, just asking if people could test something quickly if they use it
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• 5723[20:54:46] <Bushmills> then the answer is "yes"
• 5724[20:54:52] <ratrace> lol
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• 5726[20:55:24] <plantroon> thx :D I can 100% reproduce my problem :D
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• 5729[20:56:45] <cbthree> does linux-image-4.19.0-6-amd64 actually exist?
• 5730[20:57:15] <dvs> ,kernels
• 5731[20:57:16] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.0.0-trunk-686-pae (5.0.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.2.0-2-686 (5.2.9-2); buster: 4.19.0-5-686-pae (4.19.37-5); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.5-686-pae (4.19.37-4~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-9-686 (4.9.168-1+deb9u5); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.9.168-1+deb9u5~deb8u1)
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• 5735[20:58:21] <greycat> ,v linux-image-amd64
• 5736[20:58:23] <judd> Package: linux-image-amd64 on amd64 -- jessie: 3.16+63+deb8u2; jessie-security: 3.16+63+deb8u6; stretch-security: 4.9+80+deb9u6; stretch: 4.9+80+deb9u7; stretch-proposed-updates: 4.9+80+deb9u8; stretch-backports: 4.19+105~bpo9+1; bullseye: 4.19+105; buster: 4.19+105; sid: 5.2+106
• 5737[20:58:25] *** Quits: cnsunyour (~cnsunyour@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.5)
• 5738[20:58:34] <greycat> so there *is* a bullseye, but it's not showing up in ,kernels
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• 5742[20:59:32] <cbthree> According to reportbug there seems to be a newer kernel 4.19 version (linux-image-4.19.0-6-amd64) for debian 10 but when tried to install it apt-get could not find 4.19.0-6-amd64 in the repo
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• 5745[21:00:35] <cbthree> i found this: replaced-url
• 5746[21:00:53] <Bushmills> linux-source-4.19 is 4.19.37-6 in bullseye
• 5747[21:00:59] <cbthree> and in that link they talk about 4.19.0-6
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• 5749[21:01:10] <cbthree> i run buster
• 5750[21:01:21] <Bushmills> ,v linux-source-4.19
• 5751[21:01:22] <judd> Package: linux-source-4.19 on amd64 -- buster: 4.19.37-5; stretch-backports: 4.19.37-5+deb10u2~bpo9+1; buster-proposed-updates: 4.19.37-5+deb10u2; buster-security: 4.19.37-5+deb10u2; bullseye: 4.19.37-6; sid: 4.19.37-6
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• 5758[21:03:33] <cbthree> reportbug recommends me installing 4.19.0-6 and then filing a bug report if the issue i reported still remains in 4.19.0-6
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• 5767[21:06:12] <Bushmills> if it's just for any more recent version, consider to try against 5.2 from replaced-url
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• 5771[21:08:08] <cbthree> Bushmills, would it be better (for filing a bug report purposes) to stick to 4.19.0-6 since that is supposed to be a stable kernel ?
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• 5777[21:10:30] <Bushmills> i'd not call a kernel "stable" if it doesn't appear to be available with Debain "stable"
• 5778[21:10:42] <jhutchins_wk> cbthree: If you don't even know what package to file against, you really don't know enough to file a bug.
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• 5781[21:11:01] <greycat> upstream has their own notion of what is a "stable" kernel source release, but that's different from Debian's version of stable
• 5782[21:11:09] <jhutchins_wk> cbthree: Ideally, you should be able to point to the section of code where the bug occurs.
• 5783[21:11:18] <greycat> jhutchins_wk: no, that's nonsense.
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• 5785[21:11:38] *** Joins: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip)
• 5786[21:11:38] <greycat> it is sufficient to be able to say "this is what happens, this is what I expected, and here is how to reproduce it"
• 5787[21:11:53] <jhutchins_wk> Even better, provide a patch.
• 5788[21:11:54] <cbthree> jhutchins_wk, point to the section of code where the bug occurs? how is a newbie supposed to do that?
• 5789[21:12:01] <greycat> jhutchins_wk: that is NOT expected or required
• 5790[21:12:20] *** Parts: p3m (~alex@replaced-ip) ("WeeChat 2.4")
• 5791[21:12:41] <jhutchins_wk> cbthree: I don't mean to be elitist, but a lot of "bugs" get reported that aren't about bad code.
• 5792[21:12:41] <cbthree> jhutchins_wk, i am not a programmer, i am a newbie. how can a newbie provide a patch?
• 5793[21:13:00] *** Quits: omarek (~b0rsuk@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
• 5794[21:13:07] <jhutchins_wk> cbthree: Work with someone more experienced to reproduce and diagnose the problem.
• 5795[21:13:28] <SerajewelKS> it doesn't help that it's specific to some hardware that few people are likely to have
• 5796[21:13:32] <cbthree> that is what i asked earlier!
• 5797[21:13:45] <cbthree> to be guided step by step
• 5798[21:13:54] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: Unfortunately not, and it keeps the understaffed triage team pretty busy weeding out the non-bug reports.
• 5799[21:14:21] <cbthree> SerajewelKS, the chromebook model i have is a *very* popular one
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• 5803[21:15:04] <SerajewelKS> cbthree: running "lspci -vv" and including the section relevant to the broken card reader in the bug report would be helpful
• 5804[21:15:13] <jhutchins_wk> cbthree: Yes, and most of the people who have one run chrome OS on them.
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• 5806[21:15:45] <jhutchins_wk> SD card readers are one of the MOST likely devices not to work with FOSS.
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• 5809[21:16:34] <jhutchins_wk> It's more likely that the hardware support is not (yet) implemented than that it's a bug.
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• 5814[21:17:20] <cbthree> jhutchins_wk, my chromebook model was released almost 2 years ago. it is not a bleeding edge device
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• 5816[21:17:38] <SerajewelKS> 2 years is pretty bleeding edge at the pace the kernel moves
• 5817[21:17:51] *** Joins: belanthor (~belan@replaced-ip)
• 5818[21:17:51] <jhutchins_wk> cbthree: I don't think you've succeeded in finding anyone here who has the same hardware. There might be a linux-on-chromebook specific mailing list or forum out there. If you could find someone else who could reproduce and confirm that problem that would go a long way toward getting someone to work on it.
• 5819[21:17:58] <cbthree> nvz, where are you when you are needed most?
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• 5822[21:18:36] <SerajewelKS> bear in mind that debian releases are about every two years at this point, so if you have a 2yo device then there's a good chance the debian kernel doesn't support it
• 5823[21:18:38] <jhutchins_wk> cbthree: You're also gambling that there's a kernel maintainer (if it is the kernel) who has the same model.
• 5824[21:18:40] <cbthree> i believe i am facing the issue as follows : replaced-url
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• 5826[21:19:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1497
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• 5829[21:20:37] <cbthree> replaced-url
• 5830[21:20:54] <jhutchins_wk> cbthree: Did you read all the way through the github thread?
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• 5834[21:22:14] <cbthree> jhutchins_wk, the thread end on June 21st
• 5835[21:22:17] <nvz> cbthree: youre theone who wandered off when i had all your logs on my screen and offered to help :p
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• 5839[21:23:15] <cbthree> nvz, i had to go, sorry and will have to go again in about 15 minutes
• 5840[21:23:25] <jhutchins_wk> cbthree: Did you read that last message? It explains the problem quite clearly. It's not a bug.
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• 5843[21:24:06] <cbthree> jhutchins_wk, so what is it, then?
• 5844[21:24:31] *** Joins: rain2 (~My_user_n@replaced-ip)
• 5845[21:24:31] <jhutchins_wk> cbthree: Read the last message.
• 5846[21:24:43] *** Joins: oo_miguel (~miguel@replaced-ip)
• 5847[21:24:45] <jhutchins_wk> cbthree: It's a problem with the way the hardware works.
• 5848[21:25:14] <jhutchins_wk> cbthree: It's not meant to be used with Linux.
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• 5850[21:25:43] <cbthree> jhutchins_wk, by Linux you mean the kernel or the OS?
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• 5855[21:26:18] <jhutchins_wk> cbthree: The OS, the way the system is structured.
• 5856[21:26:26] *** Quits: flurp (~flrp@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 5857[21:26:52] <cbthree> jhutchins_wk, so what can i do?
• 5858[21:27:07] <jhutchins_wk> cbthree: Insert the card before you boot.
• 5859[21:27:13] <Bushmills> there exist usb to sdcard adapters
• 5860[21:27:29] <jhutchins_wk> cbthree: If you did not have the slot, what would you do?
• 5861[21:27:43] <nvz> jhutchins_wk: sounded to me from other things I read and what the kernel logs said, that the card reader communicates insertion/removal via gpio and the kernel doesnt support this particular hardware
• 5862[21:28:20] <cbthree> nvz, sdhci-pci 0000:00:12.0: failed to setup card detect gpio
• 5863[21:28:32] <nvz> I had figured that maybe some further debugging could be done to discover something happening when the card was inserted and either the pinctrl or sdhci could be reprogramed to accomodate it
• 5864[21:28:51] <cbthree> nvz, that is the message you are talking about, right
• 5865[21:28:53] <jhutchins_wk> nvz: It's not likely to be a high priority with the developers either.
• 5866[21:28:54] *** Joins: flurp (~flrp@replaced-ip)
• 5867[21:29:13] <nvz> jhutchins_wk: if we could narrow it down and gift wrap it for em, they might be more inclined :P
• 5868[21:29:30] <cbthree> nvz, that's the spirit!
• 5869[21:29:45] <nvz> I am not real experienced with gpio to know if any tools exist for debugging it at a low level or if you'd need to write something
• 5870[21:29:47] <jhutchins_wk> nvz: Maybe cbthree will buy each of us a chromebook we can test on.
• 5871[21:29:53] <nvz> jhutchins_wk: heh
• 5872[21:30:08] <nvz> well idk if its the same one, but verizon is just giving them away to new customers
• 5873[21:30:27] <cbthree> jhutchins_wk, i am financially challenged. the chromebook was a gift
• 5874[21:30:33] <jhutchins_wk> nvz: Unfortunately I'm an old customer.
• 5875[21:30:54] <jhutchins_wk> cbthree: So to my earlier more serious question: What would you do if the slot wasn't there?
• 5876[21:31:09] <nvz> you'd get a $10 usb card reader
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• 5879[21:31:34] <jhutchins_wk> ... maybe one you'd heard worked with linux (or said so on the box).
• 5880[21:31:39] <cbthree> $10 dollars? that money can buy me food for 3 days!
• 5881[21:31:43] <nvz> heh
• 5882[21:31:56] <nvz> I'd actually gotten one free last time I ordered a fan for a T61
• 5883[21:32:08] <nvz> lawd only knows where it is now
• 5884[21:32:22] <jhutchins_wk> I wonder if you can dual-boot to chromeos if you need to use it?
• 5885[21:32:32] <nvz> my T440 also has a sd card reader that doesnt seem to work in Debian.. but its not the same hardware or the same issue near as I can tell
• 5886[21:32:54] <nvz> mine is a realtek pci reader, diff hardware, diff driver
• 5887[21:32:57] <cbthree> jhutchins_wk, the chromebook was a gift and i did not want to use chromeos because i wanted a computer that i could use offline, chromeos forces you to be online
• 5888[21:33:06] <jhutchins_wk> The last system I had that had a reader wouldn't see the reader at all unless there was a card in it.
• 5889[21:33:40] <nvz> the old thinkpads I am pretty sure hooked them up to USB these pci ones just seem to be a pita
• 5890[21:34:10] <cbthree> so the advice that i was given "file a bug report" was nonsense then?
• 5891[21:34:27] <nvz> mine it loads the driver it seems, automatically but otherwise.. other than lspci, the system doesn't even see it
• 5892[21:34:49] <jhutchins_wk> cbthree: It was a generality that made some false assumptions.
• 5893[21:35:15] <nvz> only mention of it in dmesg is during the ACPI bios mapping, it mentions it by pci address, not by name or vend/prod
• 5894[21:35:41] <jhutchins_wk> nvz: Which means no known driver.
• 5895[21:36:00] <nvz> no, it has a known driver and the driver is loading
• 5896[21:36:09] *** Quits: rsx (~rsx@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 5897[21:36:10] <cbthree> jhutchins_wk, nvz, thanks. gotta go in a couple of minutes. any other advice?
• 5898[21:36:21] <nvz> but not actually showing it being bound to udev like his does
• 5899[21:36:43] <jhutchins_wk> Not really. Neither I nor nvz seems to have solved the problem of SD card readers.
• 5900[21:36:47] *** Joins: mortie (~patton@replaced-ip)
• 5901[21:36:48] *** Parts: ralpheeee (~ralphe@replaced-ip) ("WeeChat 2.4")
• 5902[21:36:52] <cbthree> someone in another channel mentioned something about udev rules
• 5903[21:37:35] <cbthree> thanks guys. gotta go now.
• 5904[21:37:38] <jhutchins_wk> cbthree: Which, once you understand how they work, you might be able to experiment with.
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• 5906[21:37:58] *** Quits: cbthree (~cbthree@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 5907[21:38:12] <jhutchins_wk> cbthree: One other thing: my average time between a solid bug report with patch to published fix is about two years.
• 5908[21:39:03] <greycat> and the average time from "the kernel doesn't support my hardware that only 17 people own" to a fix is approximately infinity years
• 5909[21:39:53] *** Joins: dannyboy35 (~dannyboy3@replaced-ip)
• 5910[21:40:24] <nvz> I had thought of trying to use my sd card reader for a removable luks key.. but I never actually looked at it until cbthree came along and realised mine doesn't work either :P replaced-url
• 5911[21:40:51] <nvz> heh looks like I made a typo in that command :D
• 5912[21:41:00] <nvz> the first echo line is mangled
• 5913[21:41:05] *** Joins: _chaplin_ (~chaplin@replaced-ip)
• 5914[21:41:11] <dannyboy35> Greycat: I tried to mount with mount -t /media/nvmep2/arch and I got an error saying arch is not in fstab
• 5915[21:41:14] <nvz> forgot the space between the -e and "
• 5916[21:41:18] *** Joins: LCRERGO (~lucas@replaced-ip)
• 5917[21:41:29] <greycat> -t expects a fstype argument, doesn't it?
• 5918[21:41:43] <nvz> yes, it does
• 5919[21:41:44] <dannyboy35> Oh
• 5920[21:41:46] <greycat> you need to know what the device is, and where you want to mount it.
• 5921[21:41:53] <greycat> mount /device /mymountpoint
• 5922[21:42:00] <nvz> autodetection of fs is superb these days in my experience
• 5923[21:42:19] <dannyboy35> I’ll try that can’t do it atm though
• 5924[21:42:19] <nvz> but you can't specify -t and not specify a fstype
• 5925[21:42:28] *** Parts: mimi89999 (cb2cbfa643@replaced-ip) ("offline")
• 5926[21:42:28] <dannyboy35> Ok
• 5927[21:42:30] *** Parts: mortie (~patton@replaced-ip) ()
• 5928[21:42:44] <dannyboy35> <><<> is new to this
• 5929[21:42:52] <nvz> !newb
• 5930[21:42:52] <dpkg> Don't bother telling us you're a "newb" or a "n00b". We can tell.
• 5931[21:43:07] <dannyboy35> Not new to Linux but new to using the cli
• 5932[21:43:19] <jhutchins_wk> dannyboy35: That's new to linux.
• 5933[21:43:45] <jhutchins_wk> dannyboy35: So how would you find the correct syntax to mount your device?
• 5934[21:43:55] <dannyboy35> I’ve used Debian for 10+ years just never messed with any of this stuff
• 5935[21:44:37] <nvz> so what, you been troubleshooting windows style, just reinstalling every time something doesn't work? :D
• 5936[21:44:57] *** Joins: m0u (~m0u@replaced-ip)
• 5937[21:44:57] <dannyboy35> Check the man page but I’m not in front of my computer right now
• 5938[21:45:12] <greycat> but you're on *a* computer
• 5939[21:45:12] *** Quits: knidos (~knidos@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1)
• 5940[21:45:18] <nvz> and on the internet
• 5941[21:45:20] <greycat> and you're connected to the Internet
• 5942[21:45:23] <nvz> :D
• 5943[21:45:25] <jhutchins_wk> dannyboy35: Good answer! It might not be clear about it, but you might figure it out.
• 5944[21:45:36] *** Joins: bouba (~bouba@replaced-ip)
• 5945[21:45:44] <jhutchins_wk> dannyboy35: Did you know most man pages are on the web?
• 5946[21:45:53] *** Quits: sweatsuit (~sweatsuit@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 5947[21:46:27] *** Quits: belanthor (~belan@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 5948[21:46:30] <coruja> replaced-url
• 5949[21:46:46] *** Quits: dreamon (~dreamon@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 5950[21:46:52] *** Joins: belanthor (~belan@replaced-ip)
• 5951[21:46:58] <jhutchins_wk> mount -h
• 5952[21:47:04] <dannyboy35> Jhutchins_wk: I did not
• 5953[21:47:34] *** Joins: czesmir_ (~stefan@replaced-ip)
• 5954[21:47:59] <jhutchins_wk> dannyboy35: If you search "man <program>" you'll usualy get several (although it's best to use the debian ones, some things tend to vary).
• 5955[21:48:13] <nvz> so I was thinking.. (>:-) I had this simple one-liner to adjust the drift_time on my trackpoint then uio had asked about a trackpoint config tool recently, and I wrote one in bash with zenity.. works well enough on my system but I am using echo and sudo tee which doesnt seem ideal for a graphical script, I was thinking maybe pkexec.. what are thoughts on that? Thing is the script will write to /sys/ for as
• 5956[21:48:16] <greycat> depends on what <program> is
• 5957[21:48:19] <nvz> many settings as modified and then to a udev rule if desired.. and unless your sudo is configured for NOPASSWD you're gonna be entering password repeatedly unless I change it to do a terminal with sudo -v first
• 5958[21:48:30] <greycat> you might want to put "debian" or "linux" in there too
• 5959[21:48:32] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: Also which version.
• 5960[21:48:51] <greycat> jhutchins_wk: some phrases beginning with "man" might give non-Linux-y results
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• 5963[21:49:09] <nvz> replaced-url
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• 5968[21:50:16] *** Joins: superduperuser (~superdupe@replaced-ip)
• 5969[21:50:41] <nvz> I could also just make another function that calls different root_cmd and make it an option I suppose.. but I dont think as-is it would be ideal for anyone not using NOPASSWD: ALL in sudoers
• 5970[21:50:44] <greycat> my 4th google result for man ed is Erectile Dysfunction (Impotence) Causes in Older and Younger Men
• 5971[21:50:54] *** Quits: czesmir (~stefan@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 5972[21:51:10] <nvz> :D
• 5973[21:51:35] <greycat> to be fair, though, the first 3 results were Linux-y, and this is very likely biased by my search history
• 5974[21:51:35] <nvz> internet porn.. thats the cause :P
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• 5981[22:00:21] <dannyboy35> should fstab show all partitions or just the one im using at the moment?
• 5982[22:01:10] <greycat> fstab should contain all of the partitions you want to mount when you boot, and any that you may not want to mount at boot but would commonly like to mount later, manually
• 5983[22:01:53] <dannyboy35> ok
• 5984[22:01:57] *** Quits: LorD_n1c0w (~igor.a@187.45.177.18) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 5985[22:01:58] <dannyboy35> i have a problem then
• 5986[22:02:02] <greycat> having a partition + mount point mapping defined in fstab, but with "noauto", allows you to type things like "mount /arch" and have it work.
• 5987[22:02:02] <Bushmills> lsblk should show all
• 5988[22:02:03] <nvz> dannyboy35: mtab shows the currently mounted partitions
• 5989[22:02:12] <dannyboy35> that im not sure how it happened but arch is missing
• 5990[22:02:18] <dannyboy35> its only showing debian
• 5991[22:02:20] <greycat> why would it be THERE?
• 5992[22:02:30] <greycat> Debian doesn't know anything about Arch unless you tell it.
• 5993[22:02:45] <nvz> and doesnt need to know about dual-boot partitions
• 5994[22:03:01] *** Quits: electro33 (uid613@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
• 5995[22:03:25] <jhutchins_wk> dannyboy35: Many file managers will auto-mount a removable device under /media. Some will leave a mount point there even when the device unmounts. Sometimes it's under /media/<user>
• 5996[22:03:52] <dannyboy35> hmmm but fstab is only showing one parition is what i should of said
• 5997[22:03:52] <greycat> in this case it's not on a removable disk, though, as far as I can tell
• 5998[22:03:56] <dannyboy35> thats ok?
• 5999[22:04:11] <jhutchins_wk> dannyboy35: What do you want to do?
• 6000[22:04:13] <nvz> dannyboy35: what is it you're trying to accomplish exactly?
• 6001[22:04:16] <dannyboy35> greycat, no both paritions are on the internal hd
• 6002[22:04:31] <greycat> so it would NOT be expected to appear in /media
• 6003[22:04:36] <Bushmills> if you put labels on partitions,. lsblk -f should show those too
• 6004[22:04:46] *** Quits: lll3N1GmAlll__ (~lll3N1GmA@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 6005[22:05:22] *** Quits: oo_miguel (~miguel@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
• 6006[22:05:25] <dannyboy35> why can i no longer type into chat?
• 6007[22:05:30] *** Joins: Theroxat (~quassel@replaced-ip)
• 6008[22:05:41] <dannyboy35> hmm couldn't type for a minute
• 6009[22:05:44] <Bushmills> maybe a medical condition
• 6010[22:05:49] <dannyboy35> lol
• 6011[22:05:54] <nvz> or you're on ssh or such and its lagging
• 6012[22:06:15] <dannyboy35> no its probably my connection im tethered to my cellphone
• 6013[22:06:19] <nvz> or your cpu became IO bound and input was lagging
• 6014[22:06:20] <jhutchins_wk> or the chat client is laging, or the server.
• 6015[22:06:26] *** Quits: womanAtHome (~womanAtHo@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 6016[22:06:31] <dannyboy35> but yes i should be using /mnt not /media
• 6017[22:06:31] <coruja> dannyboy35, what about showing us your fstab instead of just talking about?
• 6018[22:06:38] <coruja> !paste
• 6019[22:06:38] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use for text: replaced-url
• 6020[22:06:43] <nvz> I dont think we need to see the fstab
• 6021[22:06:46] *** Quits: asterismo_l (~asterismo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 6022[22:06:55] <greycat> dannyboy35: and the output of "lsblk -f"
• 6023[22:06:56] <nvz> what we need, is to know what they are trying to accomplish.. in the broadest sense
• 6024[22:06:56] <jhutchins_wk> dannyboy35: Or telling us what you're actually trying to achieve.
• 6025[22:07:01] *** Quits: shibboleth (~shibbolet@replaced-ip) (Quit: shibboleth)
• 6026[22:07:07] <jhutchins_wk> dannyboy35: Were you asking about chroot earlier?
• 6027[22:07:30] *** Joins: arri (~lyell@replaced-ip)
• 6028[22:07:30] <dannyboy35> coruja, no i was mistaken
• 6029[22:07:33] <greycat> 13:49 dannyboy35> i am dual booting debian and arch how can i chroot from debian into arch?
• 6030[22:07:53] <nvz> thats a bit vague.. I was going for more broad than that even
• 6031[22:07:56] <dannyboy35> i should be using /mnt not /media
• 6032[22:08:18] <nvz> to know if we should be telling them how to set a noauto or auto mount, where to suggest mounting, if schroot should be suggested.. etc
• 6033[22:08:50] *** Quits: maxdamage (maxdamage@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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• 6041[22:10:28] <dannyboy35> hmmm im still getting an error complaining about its not in fstab
• 6042[22:10:34] <nvz> my thoughts are, anyone who can't even seem to mount a partition or handle fstab is going to need far more advice on whatever they are trying to do with a chroot into a dualboot
• 6043[22:10:39] *** Joins: fstd (~fstd@replaced-ip)
• 6044[22:10:39] <greycat> For The Love Of God
• 6045[22:10:52] <coruja> dannyboy35, then command and error msg please
• 6046[22:11:00] <nvz> dannyboy35: mount requires two arguments a source and a target, you have to specify BOTH unless its in fstab
• 6047[22:11:01] <dannyboy35> .
• 6048[22:11:11] <greycat> What devicea are you trying to mount, and where do you want it to be mounted?
• 6049[22:11:14] *** Joins: LorD_n1c0w (~igor.a@187.45.177.18)
• 6050[22:11:37] <Bushmills> "the arch partition, in the chroot" :D
• 6051[22:12:04] <dannyboy35> +.stand by i see what im doing wrong
• 6052[22:12:49] <nvz> dannyboy35: you really need to do two things to serve yourself best here to achieve your goal in any kind of timely fashion.. one you need to provide us with more information as needed, and two, the information we really need is, what EXACTLY you are trying to achieve.. what is your idea that has you wanting to chroot into a 2nd operating system?
• 6053[22:14:19] *** Joins: lll3N1GmAlll__ (~lll3N1GmA@replaced-ip)
• 6054[22:15:51] <jhutchins_wk> dannyboy35: If this is a one-time thing, just issue the commands. If this is something you want to do often, you can set up some things that will make it easy. If you want it always there, you can put it in fstab and write a script to set it up at boot.
• 6055[22:16:11] <greycat> You do not need a script if it's in /etc/fstab.
• 6056[22:16:40] <greycat> fstab lets you list things you want to mount at boot. that's what it's FOR.
• 6057[22:16:51] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: You could script the chroot process.
• 6058[22:17:09] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: Anything you want to mount consistently really.
• 6059[22:17:48] <greycat> if you mean the bind mounts of proc and sys and so on inside the chroot, that might be a valid point, but we still don't know what he WANTS, because he won't TELL US
• 6060[22:18:04] <humpled> amazing
• 6061[22:18:06] *** Joins: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip)
• 6062[22:19:04] <nvz> jhutchins_wk: thats exactly the point I'm trying to make, fstab and all this is unnecessary if its a one-time thing and if its not, there is much more to discuss :P
• 6063[22:20:13] <jhutchins_wk> dannyboy35: This is a real-time forum, there are people who are spending their time waiting for you to respond so they can help you. If you leave long gaps like this we're likely to wander off and do something useful ourselves.
• 6064[22:20:47] * nvz already wandered off and is planning cooking something :P
• 6065[22:20:51] * Bushmills doesn't wait
• 6066[22:21:08] * jhutchins_wk wanders off for some water and a walk.
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• 6070[22:23:43] <annadane> ohhhhhh danny boyyyyyy
• 6071[22:23:48] <annadane> the irc is leavinggggggg
• 6072[22:24:57] *** Joins: un214 (~DEXTER2\j@replaced-ip)
• 6073[22:25:37] <un214> My builtin video card failed, so I dropped in a spare. The spare is RV365 and I can't seem to order X to pick a resolution other than 700x400
• 6074[22:25:50] <un214> should be 3840x2160
• 6075[22:25:51] *** Quits: _chaplin_ (~chaplin@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 6076[22:26:11] <un214> console is working fine but X is unhappy
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• 6078[22:26:50] *** Joins: finn0 (~finn0@replaced-ip)
• 6079[22:27:05] <un214> I tried keying in a Modeline but that didn't help
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• 6081[22:27:15] *** Quits: cnsunyour (~cnsunyour@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.5)
• 6082[22:27:27] <alkisg> pastebin your xorg.log?
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• 6086[22:27:42] <un214> can do stand by
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• 6096[22:29:46] * nvz goes to stand by the refridgerator
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• 6108[22:31:23] <coruja> ping timeout suggests that everything went well ;)
• 6109[22:31:31] *** Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
• 6110[22:31:44] <un214> replaced-url
• 6111[22:31:49] <nvz> ugh
• 6112[22:32:18] <nvz> un214: please don't use that site in the future.. its rife with javascript, ads, popups, etc.. use paste.debian.net or termbin or something
• 6113[22:32:21] *** Joins: dannyboy35 (~mark@replaced-ip)
• 6114[22:32:41] <un214> ah; shrug
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• 6117[22:33:34] <nvz> un214: we'd also need to see dmesg output and a lspci -nn wouldn't hurt the issue seems to be the card is some kinda radeon, and its not using the radeon driver, its falling back to plain vesa
• 6118[22:33:53] <nvz> un214: or you could just dmesg | grep firmware as thats the main thing
• 6119[22:34:08] *** Quits: timur_davletshin (~timur_dav@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 6120[22:34:30] <coruja> dannyboy35, first of all, either we try to help you _or_ you mess around for yourself, both won't work - the decision is up to you
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• 6123[22:34:54] * nvz cites coruja for animal abuse for beating that dead horse :P
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• 6126[22:35:27] <un214> pastebin.debian.net seems to not exist
• 6127[22:35:35] <nvz> probably not
• 6128[22:35:36] <greycat> replaced-url
• 6129[22:35:38] *** Quits: terr_ (~terr@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 6130[22:35:43] <nvz> its also not what I said :P
• 6131[22:35:50] <un214> got it
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• 6135[22:37:22] <un214> replaced-url
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• 6140[22:38:06] <nvz> un214: yes, it would seem KMS failed due to missing firmware and it caused X to fallback on legacy vesa support
• 6141[22:38:44] <un214> and the card has pretty broken vesa ...
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• 6144[22:38:49] <nvz> un214: try apt install firmware-amd-graphics
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• 6148[22:39:37] <un214> firmware-amd-graphics: no installation candidate
• 6149[22:39:59] <nvz> un214: you will need to add non-free to your sources list and then probably just install firmware-linux-nonfree
• 6150[22:40:05] <nvz> cause you have multiple things missing firmware
• 6151[22:40:09] <nvz> !non-free
• 6152[22:40:09] <dpkg> [non-free] a component which contains software that does not comply with the <DFSG>. To add non-free packages to your packages index, ask me about <non-free sources>. To see which non-free packages are installed ask me about <non-free list>.
• 6153[22:40:18] <nvz> !non-free sources
• 6154[22:40:19] <dpkg> Edit /etc/apt/sources.list, ensure that the two main Debian mirror lines end with "main contrib non-free" rather than just "main", then «apt-get update». But bear in mind that you'll be installing <non-free> software. These may have onerous terms; check the licenses. See also <sources.list>.
• 6155[22:40:33] *** Quits: sunzero (~sunzero@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 6156[22:40:55] <nvz> un214: you will need to apt update after adding non-free
• 6157[22:40:57] <un214> yup that was what was missing; I presume that's a reboot
• 6158[22:41:07] <greycat> after installing firmware, yes
• 6159[22:41:17] <un214> ok then see you on the flip side
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• 6163[22:42:13] <nvz> whatever machine they had looks like every piece of hw needed non-free firmware
• 6164[22:42:25] <nvz> ethernet, wifi, bluetooth, graphics..
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• 6171[22:45:46] *** mark__ is now known as dannyboy35
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• 6174[22:46:29] <dannyboy35> i have mounted the partition but now chroot is complaining it can't find bash i don't use bash i use zsh
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• 6179[22:46:49] <dannyboy35> how do i tell it to use that? or do i have to use zsh on debian as well?
• 6180[22:46:51] <greycat> chroot /yourmountpoint /bin/zsh
• 6181[22:47:02] <dannyboy35> ah ok
• 6182[22:47:07] <dannyboy35> i did /usr
• 6183[22:47:08] *** Quits: shazam (~shazam@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 6184[22:47:09] <greycat> or wherever zsh is within the mountpoint
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• 6186[22:47:31] <greycat> by the way, chroot is a command, and therefore it has a man page, which will tell you how to use it.
• 6187[22:47:38] <jhutchins_wk> dannyboy35: Did you mount proc, dev, and sys?
• 6188[22:47:49] <dannyboy35> thats it
• 6189[22:47:55] <dannyboy35> thanks jhutchins_wk
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• 6202[22:55:36] <dannyboy35> jhutchins_wk, i do that the same way /pro/nvme0n1p2 etc?
• 6203[22:55:48] <greycat> !chroot
• 6204[22:55:48] <dpkg> To chroot into your Debian system boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2). Mount your root filesystem with "mount -t ext2 /dev/whatever /target" and make /dev, /proc and /sys usable with "mount --rbind --make-rslave /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys". You can then chroot into the system with "chroot /target".
• 6205[22:56:07] <greycat> that factoid has the instructions for bind-mounting the auxiliary file systems inside the chroot
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• 6210[22:58:32] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: ... and was posted earlier when he first asked.
• 6211[22:58:37] * jhutchins_wk heads for home.
• 6212[22:58:43] *** Quits: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
• 6213[22:58:49] <greycat> obviously he didn't bother to copy it into a text file for later perusal
• 6214[22:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1487
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• 6216[22:59:28] <greycat> or screen shot it into an image file for later perusal, if that's your thing (much less efficient)
• 6217[22:59:38] *** Quits: mentor (~m@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 6218[22:59:53] <greycat> or at least memorize the name of the bot and the name of the factoid trigger, so you can "/msg dpkg chroot" later to see it again
• 6219[23:00:07] <humpled> amazing
• 6220[23:00:21] <greycat> ... or you could just vanish in the middle of being helped
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• 6276[23:26:03] <cluelessperson> huh, seems to be working now
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• 6278[23:26:28] <nvz> huh usually works for me..
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• 6280[23:27:33] <ZaZaGX> i broke something
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• 6286[23:30:09] * nvz isn't surprised
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• 6289[23:30:39] <no_gravity> Since I have "powertop --auto-tune" run on startup, my mouse freezes. I have to unplug and replug it once to get it to work. Any ideas how to debug this?
• 6290[23:30:51] *** Joins: cnsunyour (~cnsunyour@replaced-ip)
• 6291[23:31:35] <ZaZaGX> have you tried not running powertop upon startup?
• 6292[23:31:41] <nvz> heh
• 6293[23:31:44] *** Quits: cnsunyour (~cnsunyour@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 6294[23:31:47] <nvz> I was gonna say the same thing
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• 6297[23:32:01] <no_gravity> Not sure what you mean? I sense ... humor?
• 6298[23:32:08] <nvz> whatever auto tuning its doing is apparently affecting your USB power
• 6299[23:32:21] *** Quits: cnsunyour (~cnsunyour@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 6300[23:32:22] <nvz> possibly putting your device to sleep if it supports such a thing
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• 6303[23:32:43] <no_gravity> Exactly.
• 6304[23:32:52] <nvz> so stop auto tuning :D
• 6305[23:33:16] <no_gravity> Sorry, I'm from Germany. We don't have humor here.
• 6306[23:33:20] <nvz> heh
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• 6310[23:33:58] <nvz> "No mam, we at the FBI don't have a sense of humor we're aware of" -K, Men In Black
• 6311[23:34:24] <ZaZaGX> eureeka, that must be the problem!
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• 6315[23:35:13] <ZaZaGX> no_gravity, i can't tell. your behind a proxy
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• 6319[23:36:16] <nvz> I don't think any real software tweaks would make much difference in battery life if thats your goal.. my T440 lasts a really long time on battery.. but thats cause I have 2 batteries and one is an extended life battery and I keep my backlight at a level just enough to see
• 6320[23:36:31] <sjk> /go openbs
• 6321[23:36:33] <nvz> but this is all really low-power hardware to begin with
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• 6325[23:38:12] <ZaZaGX> !ping
• 6326[23:38:13] <dpkg> pong
• 6327[23:38:13] <toxync12-> [toxync@tox] pong! on #debian
• 6328[23:38:32] <nvz> !ops ^
• 6329[23:38:33] <dpkg> Hydroxide, dondelelcaro, LoRez, RichiH, mentor, abrotman, Maulkin, stew, peterS, Myon, Ganneff, weasel, zobel, themill, babilen, SynrG, jm_, somiaj, jelly, petn-randall: nvz complains about a problem (see above)
• 6330[23:38:53] <annadane> pang
• 6331[23:39:23] <ZaZaGX> whoa, your an ops nvz?
• 6332[23:39:30] <deadmarshal> some applications like ktorrent or db browser for sqlite suddenly closes. how should I fix it? here is the terminal output: replaced-url
• 6333[23:39:32] <nvz> no, I am not
• 6334[23:39:34] <no_gravity> After uplug+replug the mouse, I see this in powertop: Bad Autosuspend for USB device USB OPTICAL MOUSE. So I guees that one should stay at "bad". I wonder how to tell that to powertop.
• 6335[23:39:43] *** Quits: zalt__ (~lambda443@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 6336[23:39:46] <nvz> if I was, I'd have quieted that user responding to the same trigger as the bot
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• 6341[23:41:10] <ZaZaGX> deadmarshal, have you tried using tranmission-bt?
• 6342[23:41:45] <ZaZaGX> i have never seen the ops on here talk
• 6343[23:42:55] <deadmarshal> ZaZaGX: yes I used it. it's not about application, many apps closes for this reason
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• 6352[23:47:52] <ZaZaGX> PIA
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• 6359[23:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1477
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• 6361[23:49:58] <ZaZaGX> oh geez, i just found out we're all being recorded on here
• 6362[23:50:04] *** Quits: oiaohm (~oiaohm@replaced-ip) ()
• 6363[23:51:55] <no_gravity> ZaZaGX: How so?
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• 6367[23:53:30] <ZaZaGX> replaced-url
• 6368[23:53:31] <dvs> no_gravity, everything here is recorded to a log which can be recalled on a website
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• 6372[23:54:50] <ZaZaGX> Looks like I talk a lot on here. I'm ranked #9
• 6373[23:54:58] <no_gravity> That reminds me of an old log fila analytics software which name I cannot remember.
• 6374[23:56:15] <dvanmosselbeen> ZaZaGX: You talk more as a girl :-P
• 6375[23:56:51] <dvanmosselbeen> And girls can talk a lot ... :-P
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