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• 16[00:14:59] <jim> themill, are you here?
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• 60[00:24:28] <jhutchins> daysun_: It's safer and smoother if you do two runs. You're changing everything on the system, do it carefully and gently.
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• 86[00:37:02] <Lutin> HI guys, I tried Ubuntu and now Debian as well... when I install php modules using apt-get they don't show up with php -m and all symlinks are there
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• 93[00:40:56] <Lutin> Back! Something went wrong with my client, sorry
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• 95[00:41:17] <Lutin> so.. php modules in a docker Debian like container are not loaded
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• 104[00:51:30] <cef> Lutin: Probably need to add them to php.ini. They might be in there commented out.
• 105[00:52:10] <Lutin> cef normally that is not needed anymore
• 106[00:52:28] <Lutin> cef the symlinks manage that
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• 145[01:34:00] <Arrow88> has anyone managed to boot debian as a running os from a USB?
• 146[01:34:41] <Arrow88> maybe a bit of a fiddle, but after first bootup it might work
• 147[01:35:40] <tomreyn> i've done it years ago, it was straight forward then. and it probably still is.
• 148[01:36:08] <tomreyn> it's just another target storage
• 149[01:36:49] <Arrow88> I guess I should make an intall to a USB3, hoping I can make the machine treat it like a patition
• 150[01:37:02] <Arrow88> partition*
• 151[01:37:33] <tomreyn> then you'll have no place for the boot loader, though, unless you'll try to embed it, hwich you shoul dnot.
• 152[01:37:52] <Arrow88> hmm, install grub sparately?
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• 154[01:38:57] <sig_9> live usb
• 155[01:39:28] <Arrow88> I just have to try and test a bit, and maybe find some info on it.
• 156[01:39:41] <tomreyn> you said you wanted to treat the usb attached storage as a (single) partition, so i assume you mean an unpartitioned device. i don't think you want to do that.
• 157[01:39:58] * Arrow88 searches for debian run as live usb
• 158[01:40:25] <sig_9> replaced-url
• 159[01:40:43] <Arrow88> you are right tomreyn, I should be able to take the usb with me and leave the computer behind
• 160[01:40:58] <Arrow88> that is at least what I hope is possible
• 161[01:41:07] <tomreyn> you should partition it just like any device you'll install to, so that you can have grub in either a separate partiton (bios-grub or esp) or at least behind the partition table.
• 162[01:41:50] <tomreyn> it will matter how you'll want to boot it, legacy bios or uefi
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• 165[01:44:01] <Arrow88> UEFI behaves much the same?
• 166[01:45:13] <sig_9> Arrow88: you got to remember that hardware on different machines is an issue
• 167[01:45:23] <dvs> a big issue
• 168[01:45:30] <sig_9> it would be like pulling an HDD and putting it in a diff machine
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• 170[01:45:40] <sig_9> X won't work and lots of other problems
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• 172[01:46:23] <Arrow88> previously I have just moved booting priority to either CD or USB first, then made a partion from the installer then installed
• 173[01:46:24] <sig_9> your best option is a liveUSB, partition so you can save files to
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• 176[01:47:58] <Arrow88> live, is sort of debian running in ram?
• 177[01:48:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1177
• 178[01:48:30] <sig_9> Arrow88: kind of
• 179[01:48:39] <Arrow88> a bit like Puppy linux
• 180[01:49:19] <Arrow88> hmm, I was hoping for something a bit like a full distor, puppy can be a bit erratic with mouse pads and keys
• 181[01:50:12] <Arrow88> if it ran from a usb3 it might behave better
• 182[01:50:23] <Arrow88> either way, I shall give it a go
• 183[01:50:49] <Arrow88> thanks, I just have to try it and go from there
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• 193[01:59:17] <Arrow88> I lost connection
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• 206[02:31:01] <edufmass> Hello! I want to have a lightweight system, I have i3wm, I connected to wifi with nmcli command, is ok to continue with that tool? do you recommend another light wifi manager?
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• 209[02:32:17] <dvs> edufmass: If I used one, that's the one I'd use.
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• 211[02:33:20] <edufmass> dvs, thank you!
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• 213[02:33:31] <jmcnaught> edufmass: there is also nmtui. if you have a systray then nm-applet is in the network-manager-gnome package.
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• 218[02:38:30] <edufmass> jmcnaught, I'll check them :)
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• 239[03:08:22] <daysun_> do you need to 'apt update' before installing a package?
• 240[03:08:25] <daysun_> should*
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• 242[03:08:48] <raekuul> it's good practice
• 243[03:09:03] <freem> because otherwise the exact package might no longer be around (version change for example)
• 244[03:09:03] <raekuul> if you don't, you run the risk of installing something that you'll immediately have to upgrade
• 245[03:09:12] <raekuul> or what freem said, which is worse
• 246[03:09:23] <daysun_> ok, I understand than how it works. thanks
• 247[03:09:31] <freem> yw
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• 249[03:11:35] <alex11> i don't really bother, personally
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• 252[03:16:33] <freem> tbh, I usually 1st install, and when it fails, I update :p
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• 335[03:32:56] <daysun_> do you need to run apt-get autoclean regularly?
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• 337[03:33:22] <daysun_> that's a problem that archlinux has. Never seen it in any other distro.. yet. but that command raises my suspicious.
• 338[03:33:55] <dvs> daysun_: it will usually tell you if there are packages available to purge when you update
• 339[03:34:35] <daysun_> I'm preparing for unattended upgrades. Will probably only check on it like once per month.
• 340[03:35:50] <dvs> Well, unattended upgrades usually don't work out because config files can't be automatically upgraded.
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• 343[03:39:04] <phantomcircuit> hi im running buster and chromium freezes about 3 seconds after starting
• 344[03:39:13] <daysun_> dvs: shouldn't be a problem if you're always using the default config?
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• 347[03:39:46] <dvs> daysun_: but even the default config changes sometimes during upgrade.
• 348[03:40:14] <daysun_> phantomcircuit: check journalctl and look for any useful information. Try starting the browser with a fresh profile too, or in private mode to deactivate any plugins (depending on your setup).
• 349[03:40:30] <phantomcircuit> --disable-gpu fixes the issue
• 350[03:40:32] <daysun_> dvs: doesn't the upgrade system just magically merge them?
• 351[03:40:37] <dvs> nope
• 352[03:40:48] <dvs> it prompt the user to see which config to use.
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• 354[03:41:01] <phantomcircuit> daysun_, no plugins and i just deleted ~/.cache/chromium and ~/.config/chromium
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• 356[03:41:06] <daysun_> dvs: what happens then, if this occur during an automatic update?
• 357[03:41:11] <phantomcircuit> there's a bug related to my gpu apparently
• 358[03:41:21] <dvs> daysun_: dunno.
• 359[03:41:33] <daysun_> phantomcircuit: what graphics driver are you using?
• 360[03:41:45] <daysun_> is it for a nvidia card?
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• 362[03:41:56] <phantomcircuit> intel i915
• 363[03:43:10] <daysun_> tricky then... but here's what I'd do in this situation; report a bug (which likely has been done already) and live without gpu-acceleration (or use firefox) until there's a fix.
• 364[03:43:53] <phantomcircuit> im trying to use a stupid supermicro ipmi html5 remote control widget
• 365[03:43:59] <phantomcircuit> doesn't work in firefox at all
• 366[03:44:15] <daysun_> are there other drivers you can try maybe?
• 367[03:44:18] <phantomcircuit> amusingly seems broken in chromium also cause of some ssl thing
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• 381[03:54:42] <daysun_> 50undattendend-upgrades have commented-out origin patterns codename=${distro_codename}-updates and codename=${distro_codename}-proposed-updates. I suppose the latter is some sort of testing. But why is the former commented out? what's not commented out though is two sources with label=Debian and label=Debian-Security. I suppose those the latter is some kind of security update, but what is the former then?
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• 384[03:55:36] <petn-randall> daysun_: It's commented out so you can trivially comment it in when you want it.
• 385[03:56:01] <daysun_> yes, of course. But what are those for?
• 386[03:56:29] <petn-randall> !proposed-updates
• 387[03:56:29] <dpkg> stable-proposed-updates is a repository containing packages being prepared for the next <point release>. While they have already been, your additional testing is most welcome prior to wider release. replaced-url
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• 389[03:57:23] <daysun_> the -updates one is commented out. Why isn't it used though. What are the rows with label=Debian doing?
• 390[03:57:59] <petn-randall> !buster-updates
• 391[03:58:00] <dpkg> buster-updates is a suite providing updates to some packages (from <proposed-updates>) prior to a <point release>. All packages from buster-updates will be included in point releases. replaced-url
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• 393[04:00:35] <daysun_> I suppose I don't need to worry about those lines then and that I'm getting actual updates.
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• 395[04:01:27] <petn-randall> daysun_: You're getting security updates, and point release updates in the default, IIRC.
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• 397[04:01:53] <petn-randall> daysun_: You _can_ uncomment the -updates one, too, so you'll get the updates before the point release.
• 398[04:02:04] <daysun_> thanks :)
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• 400[04:03:28] <petn-randall> daysun_: Note that it won't reboot into newer kernels, or restart daemons that are using the old libraries; use "needrestart" for that.
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• 403[04:04:01] <daysun_> You activate unattended updates by altering some config files apparently. But it's safe to assume that whatever's looking at them gets notified; i.e. no need to reboot the computer or any services to enable the automatic updates? The service is enabled by default, but can I be sure that it notices the changes in the configuration?
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• 406[04:04:29] <daysun_> right.. gotta fix that.
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• 409[04:06:55] <petn-randall> IIRC it runs every night. ...let me check my config.
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• 413[04:10:06] <petn-randall> daysun_: You need to set APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists "1"; APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade "1";
• 414[04:10:32] <petn-randall> daysun_: Like the documentation says in /usr/share/doc/unattended-upgrades/README.md.gz.
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• 423[04:20:12] <daysun_> thanks. I mean, do you need to restart anything for these configurations to take effect?
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• 474[04:42:40] <petn-randall> daysun_: I don't think so, no.
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• 486[05:08:52] <daysun_> wow.. some debian packages are years old
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• 496[05:30:18] <shawnbon206> hello. I wish to install NodeJS from testing. I'm debating whether to do a SimpleBackportCreation ( replaced-url
• 497[05:30:49] <shawnbon206> the exact version I need is in testing, I'm running stable 10.7 of course
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• 503[05:43:17] <lloydxmas> Hi all - I'm experiencing a bug but unsure about how to file a report. I'm running Sid and using KDE/Plasma. Having an issue sound output not switching properly when headphones are unplugged
• 504[05:43:45] <lloydxmas> Curious whether I'd first file a report with Debian or how to isolate it as a Plasma issue
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• 507[05:47:32] <Gerowen> Anybody here successfully using Backblaze B2 with duplicity on Debian 10? I keep getting, BackendException: B2 backend requires B2 Python APIs (pip install b2), but even after pip installing b2 for both python and python3, I still get nothing.
• 508[05:47:49] <daysun_> shawnbon206: replaced-url
• 509[05:52:19] <edufmass> shawnbon206, I've installed nodejs using nodesource.com. I've installed stable 14.x, 15.x is available too. I don't know the difference with SimpleBackportCreation or build it
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• 511[05:54:26] <shawnbon206> thanks, I'm going to try the make install method
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• 525[06:10:26] <birkoff> hey how can i see a to-be installed apt package's script configuration commands ?
• 526[06:11:44] <birkoff> i.e package post-installation script
• 527[06:11:47] <sney> download the deb, unpack it, look at the 'control' contents. or see the same thing via the vcs link on tracker
• 528[06:11:50] <sney> !tracker
• 529[06:11:50] <dpkg> The Debian package tracker can be found at replaced-url
• 530[06:12:30] <sney> not all packages have a web git interface but most do, or something like it
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• 544[06:27:46] <daysun_> can debian automatically remove unneeded packages as well?
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• 546[06:28:05] <lloydxmas> apt autoremove daysun_
• 547[06:28:10] <sney> ^
• 548[06:28:49] <sney> though your definition of 'unneeded' may not match apt's, it will tend to keep things installed that have a relationship to another package. there are various ways around this but usually it's just small libs anyway
• 549[06:29:25] <Casper26> /
• 550[06:29:43] <daysun_> I'm just unused to apt.. other distros just remove dependencies that no packages need when you remove packages.
• 551[06:29:52] <daysun_> automagically.
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• 553[06:31:15] <sney> debian had that for the 1 or 2 releases that 'aptitude' was the recommended apt tool. you can still install and use aptitude if you want, it'll do the autoremove step whenever you use it to install or remove something else
• 554[06:32:06] <Gerowen> daysun: apt autoremove will automatically get rid of anything that's no longer needed. If you'd like to do it automatically at the time you uninstall, you can pass --autoremove to apt; i.e. apt remove --autoremove packagename
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• 556[06:32:32] *** daysun_ is now known as daysun
• 557[06:33:05] <daysun> yes, thanks.
• 558[06:33:09] <daysun> should be the default imo
• 559[06:33:40] <daysun> but I can see some edge cases where it could be nice to not have to re-download and reinstall them.
• 560[06:33:58] <sney> debian provides choices, you use the tools you want in the way you want
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• 563[06:36:05] <daysun> the LTS for node runs out in 3 months.. it's a several year old version. What happens then? Will they release a newer version, or how does that work?
• 564[06:36:33] <petn-randall> Usually Debian continues to provide security support for it.
• 565[06:36:55] <daysun> petn-randall: not after 2021-03
• 566[06:37:24] <daysun> or april or something. Just 3 months until they stop releasing security updates (their own words)
• 567[06:37:44] <daysun> but what happens with such packages? do you suddenly get node 15 pushed then?
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• 569[06:38:13] <sney> if it's still feasible to backport security patches, debian may do that. or recommend users use a newer version via buster-backports. or push the newer node to stable, like was done with firefox-esr a few months ago.
• 570[06:38:26] <sney> it depends, but rest assured it will be addressed.
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• 572[06:38:54] <daysun> what do you need to do as an admin then? just update as usual or install a package called nodejs11 or something?
• 573[06:39:29] <sney> just update is usual, stable deliberately needs little intervention
• 574[06:39:45] <sney> but there will be emails and possibly a debconf prompt warning about any config changes, etc
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• 576[06:40:04] <petn-randall> daysun: Did *Debian* say they will not provide security support after 2012-03? If so, where?
• 577[06:40:13] <sney> (I don't use node for anything, this is just the general way)
• 578[06:41:30] <daysun> I think I misread: "Debian contains a version of Node.js in its default repositories. At the time of writing, this version is 10.15.2, which will reach end-of-life on April 1, 2021. At this date it will no longer be supported with security and bug fixes." <--- digitalocean, not debians words
• 579[06:41:47] <daysun> petn-randall: ^
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• 581[06:41:59] <petn-randall> Ok. Debian will just continue to provide support, even if upstream doesn't.
• 582[06:42:02] <sney> digital ocean... don't take their word for anything you can't find a secondary source for
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• 585[06:43:01] <daysun> are all the various systemd sandboxing features supported on debian at least?
• 586[06:43:03] <petn-randall> I also don't know where DO has this info from, I think whoever wrote that is mixing up Debian and upstream. Or there *has* been an announcement of such sort, but I haven't read about it.
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• 589[06:43:59] <petn-randall> Just to be clear, the norm is that Debian support software through the whole OS release cycle, even if upstream doesn't.
• 590[06:44:05] <petn-randall> *supports
• 591[06:44:49] <petn-randall> There are few cases where this isn't so, you can use the "debian-security-support" tool to check that.
• 592[06:45:02] <daysun> seems like nodejs stops supporting it, in april. Maybe that's where they got that from.
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• 595[06:51:03] <Gerowen> So regarding my issue of duplicity not wanting to upload to backblaze b2, I tried running it with strace and found lots of error messages of files missing. I've been using apt-file to try and find things like /usr/lib/python2.7/plat-x86_64-linux-gnu/b2.so , and no packages in the stable repos provide those files. I'm able to pip install b2 with both python and python3, but that doesn't fix the error I get when trying to use duplicity with b2.
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• 603[07:02:04] <alexrelis[m]> I just found a great video showcasing vintage Debian: (replaced-url
• 604[07:02:04] <alexrelis[m]> Oh have we come a long way.
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• 606[07:02:45] <daysun> how are you in general supposed to run debian with modern versions of say, a LAMP-stack?
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• 608[07:03:43] <daysun> There's a script to download and compile new versions of node, but that's not a general solution. I am just being curious.
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• 625[07:25:01] <themill> daysun: most people do not want that. They want a webserver to run for years, not be needy and want being updated on a regular basis.
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• 628[07:27:10] <daysun> I want the same. But when it comes to nodejs, five major versions behind is just too old. It's one ecmascript version behind too. ES5. ES6 was introduced later.
• 629[07:27:28] <daysun> I understand, themill. I see the point.
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• 631[07:28:56] <daysun> another thing that troubles me is that its systemd and kernel version is a bit behind too, potentially missing out some sandboxing features (but I haven't looked into it yet)
• 632[07:29:04] <daysun> I should stop rambling.
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• 634[07:32:37] <petn-randall> !sns
• 635[07:32:37] <dpkg> Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>.
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• 637[07:33:13] <petn-randall> daysun: If you need a newer kernel, you can get one from backports. Same goes for systemd. Though I'd argue that most people don't need that.
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• 641[07:36:12] <daysun> I checked the backport for nodejs, there wasn't one.
• 642[07:36:55] <daysun> 'new shiny shit' is superior to old junk sometimes.
• 643[07:37:13] <daysun> It does matters a lot in webdev.
• 644[07:38:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1169
• 645[07:38:17] <petn-randall> TBH the way nodejs handles security support I'm surprised that it's even in Debian.
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• 654[07:42:40] <daysun> a compromise due to its popularity I believe
• 655[07:42:54] <daysun> its not just nodejs itself but its ecosystem
• 656[07:43:20] <daysun> Hence, I'm even forced to contain it. Shouldn't have to.
• 657[07:44:38] <daysun> "can't be fixed, that's true with any eco system". Nah.. you shouldn't under any circumstances have to give a random package full root access. sudo npm -g install some_npm_package
• 658[07:45:59] <daysun> sorry.. I should stop typing. Just typing stupid things today.
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• 668[08:01:32] <aaro> daysun: have you checked nodejs.org page? they provide binaries with recent versions for debian
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• 671[08:05:26] <daysun> aaro: those are harder to auto-update. And even if that's done, I would have to check that everything works every time. Unattended-updates will install and restart it for me and I can be pretty sure that it just works.
• 672[08:06:30] <petn-randall> "just works" and having a newer version every time upstream releases are mutually exclusive, though.
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• 677[08:13:02] <daysun> that's why I don't want to use their binaries.
• 678[08:14:05] <petn-randall> Yet you've argued that the Debian version is "too old".
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• 684[08:19:07] <daysun> yes, because it is :P
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• 743[09:18:56] <unixbsd> hello, where to find the program or source code of lock (not vlock) similar to openbsd? in case, is there a source code in older debian?
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• 746[09:20:17] <petn-randall> unixbsd: What is "lock" supposed to do?
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• 760[09:30:56] <rnm> debian wsl on windows are based on which release?
• 761[09:31:40] <Haohmaru> how would we know
• 762[09:33:06] <dreamer> ask satya
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• 764[09:34:59] <petn-randall> !tell rnm -about crosspost
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• 770[09:44:52] <iflema> selfish basically
• 771[09:45:42] <iflema> and retarding
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• 775[09:50:29] <rnm> thanks for the insult iflema .
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• 781[09:54:34] <jelly> rnm, the "Debian" installer in MS Store installs Debian 10
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• 783[09:54:59] <petn-randall> jelly: They already found out because they also asked in the other #debian.
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• 786[09:55:45] <jelly> rnm, oh, if you ask in multiple places, please tell us you found out the answer if possible, to minimize wasting time
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• 789[09:56:29] * jelly does not look at the other #debian a whole lot
• 790[09:56:31] <aminvakil> iflema: for whatever reason (crossposting, not searching before asking, etc.) it's not right to use that here.
• 791[09:56:52] <jelly> rudeness should not beget more rudeness
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• 793[09:57:47] <Haohmaru> don't b rood if ur root
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• 798[10:02:56] <iflema> rnm: whay insult
• 799[10:03:01] <iflema> ?
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• 801[10:03:33] <iflema> you gonna tell i cant use the word retart
• 802[10:03:44] <iflema> *retard
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• 806[10:06:17] <rnm> thanks jelly and sorry for late update. I get the answer from OFTC members.
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• 811[10:11:14] <petn-randall> iflema: Yes, please don't insult people in here, it's not helpful.
• 812[10:11:35] <iflema> what was thi insult
• 813[10:11:55] <azeem> "retarding"
• 814[10:12:06] <iflema> look the word up
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• 816[10:12:42] <petn-randall> iflema: You can assume most people in here understand that word.
• 817[10:12:56] <iflema> i dont
• 818[10:14:18] <iflema> it applies well to technical stuff
• 819[10:14:21] <iflema> i like it
• 820[10:14:26] <iflema> anyways later
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• 832[10:27:05] <wuyx> q
• 833[10:27:06] <wuyx> :q
• 834[10:27:28] <wuyx> sorry, typo
• 835[10:27:41] <growly> there should be vim bindings
• 836[10:28:31] <dreamer> there probably are
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• 842[10:34:12] <shadur1> Has something drastically changed in the default config for vim in unstable? All of a sudden every single time the terminal window I'm editing in loses and regains focus it pops up a couple lines at the bottom "helpfully" telling me what file I'm editing and the content of the line I'm currently working on, and asks me to press a key to continue.
• 843[10:34:49] <petn-randall> !debian-next
• 844[10:34:50] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
• 845[10:34:59] <petn-randall> shadur1: I recommend you ask again here ^^^
• 846[10:35:25] <shadur1> Need an invite, apparently.
• 847[10:35:44] <oxek> shadur1: it's on oftc, not freenode
• 848[10:35:44] <petn-randall> ... or you need to read it again.
• 849[10:36:39] <growly> lol
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• 893[11:37:48] <cadmio> hello
• 894[11:38:30] <cadmio> why weren't there new debian release this year?
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• 896[11:39:44] <ratrace> cadmio: this year? 2021?
• 897[11:39:46] <azeem> cadmio: "this year" is only 17 days old, please have some patience
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• 899[11:40:21] <cadmio> 5 december 2020: Updated Debian 10: 10.7 released
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• 901[11:40:35] <cadmio> it's more than one year
• 902[11:40:40] <jelly> cadmio, Debian does not have time-based releases
• 903[11:40:52] <avu> cadmio: no, it's little more than a month
• 904[11:40:52] <petn-randall> I see you fail at math.
• 905[11:40:59] <jelly> a new release is out when it's ready
• 906[11:41:57] <jelly> petn-randall, or attempting a joke
• 907[11:42:41] <jelly> !bullseye freeze
• 908[11:42:42] <dpkg> the freeze for Debian 11 'bullseye' has begun on 2021-01-13. replaced-url
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• 910[11:45:06] <cadmio> I cannot render this character i̅̆ correclty on my debian
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• 933[12:02:50] <Mister00X> cadmio: do you use a font which supports that character?
• 934[12:04:06] <cadmio> I'm using firefox I tried different fonts but it does not help
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• 936[12:04:44] <Mister00X> cadmio: is it only in firefox?
• 937[12:05:00] <cadmio> also in mousepad it's the same
• 938[12:05:22] <Mister00X> cadmio: which desktop environment do you use?
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• 941[12:05:58] <cadmio> icewm
• 942[12:05:58] <Mister00X> also could you tell me which language that character comes from?
• 943[12:06:02] <ratrace> what character is that supposed to be? I see a lower case i with some weird diacritic instead of the dot. never seen that before
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• 945[12:06:24] <ratrace> I'm using deja vu font in the terminal where I run this irc client, irssi
• 946[12:06:34] <cadmio> it's latin
• 947[12:06:42] <aaro> cadmio: install 'unifont'
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• 949[12:07:45] <cadmio> why don't "latin fonts" work?
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• 952[12:10:39] <Mister00X> cadmio: it appears to me that this character is indeed part of the latin extension, and noto sans is able to display it
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• 954[12:11:58] <cadmio> I've only "noto mono"
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• 959[12:14:50] <Mister00X> cadmio: you could install the fonts-noto-core package and try if it works
• 960[12:16:01] <cadmio> with notomono works on Xchat
• 961[12:16:38] <Mister00X> yes I just looked it up, noto mono supports this character too
• 962[12:17:08] <cadmio> but in firefox I'm not able to change font, after selecting one it's not updated
• 963[12:17:43] <Mister00X> cadmio: did you restart firefox?
• 964[12:20:03] <aaro> cadmio: you dopn't have to change anything in firefox, you just need to install the appropiate font that has that glyph, be it unifont or noto-sans, just intall it and it will be used as fallback
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• 966[12:20:43] <cadmio> aaro, in firefox you can pick a font from those installed. But after that nothing change
• 967[12:21:27] <cadmio> Mister00X, yes I did it
• 968[12:22:06] <Mister00X> cadmio: strange
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• 971[12:22:33] <cadmio> ah wait
• 972[12:22:42] <Mister00X> could it be that you need some *-l10-* package for firefox?
• 973[12:23:09] <cadmio> not it has changes but I didn't like it..
• 974[12:24:08] <Mister00X> cadmio: the font or the *-l10n-* package?
• 975[12:24:25] <cadmio> the font "noto mono"
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• 978[12:24:49] <Mister00X> cadmio: thats because its a monospace font
• 979[12:25:10] <Mister00X> cadmio: anyway does it display the character correctly
• 980[12:25:22] <cadmio> yes it does but it's awful
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• 983[12:26:28] <Mister00X> cadmio: now you could install fonts-noto-core and use noto sans which is no monospace font
• 984[12:27:31] <Mister00X> cadmio: what was your standard font in firefox before?
• 985[12:28:12] <cadmio> default dejavu (serif) is there something close to it that displays the character well?
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• 987[12:28:33] <Mister00X> cadmio: you could try bitstream vera
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• 990[12:29:21] <Mister00X> or noto serif
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• 992[12:30:10] <cadmio> bitstream vera is better off
• 993[12:31:15] <oxek> what is the correct package name for freerdp in debian? replaced-url
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• 997[12:32:12] <ratrace> freerdp2-x11 ? (or -wayland)
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• 999[12:32:29] <ratrace> oxek: apt search --names-only freerdp for future reference
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• 1001[12:33:32] <oxek> that looks to be the one. I got confused by online searches referencing old name freerdp or freerdp-x11, and by things like freerdp2-dev freerdp2-shadow-x11, on apt search
• 1002[12:33:45] <oxek> so I thought there was some proper "metapackage" to install freerdp in debian
• 1003[12:34:20] <oxek> like 'libreoffice' is a metapackage name that pulls the correct things
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• 1034[13:18:16] <Lope> `exportfs -a` is reading all of the comments in /etc/exports, and then writing Function not implemented over and over again for each line.
• 1035[13:18:40] <Lope> And the one and only line that's not commented out, it also says it for that line.
• 1036[13:18:47] <Lope> Any ideas?
• 1037[13:19:02] <Lope> I've rsync'd this install from a working machine :/
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• 1039[13:21:29] <Lope> I tried to reinstall nfs-kernel-server and got this error: /usr/sbin/policy-rc.d returned 101, not running 'restart nfs-server.service'
• 1040[13:21:41] <Lope> I've been getting that policy returned 101 error a few times today.
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• 1042[13:22:26] <Lope> WTF is /usr/sbin/policy-rc.d ???
• 1043[13:22:39] <Lope> it's literally a shell script that only contains "exit 101"
• 1044[13:24:35] <Lope> apparently it's a special trick for inhibiting services while inside a chroot or whatever
• 1045[13:24:46] <Lope> so I'm gonna mark it not executable I guess.
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• 1047[13:25:13] <petn-randall> Lope: Sounds like you've explicitely set nfs-server to not start.
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• 1050[13:25:54] <Lope> petn-randall, I haven't, please see above.
• 1051[13:26:04] <ratrace> Lope: weren't you few months ago asking how to prevent service (re)starts on installation/upgrade?
• 1052[13:26:41] <Lope> ratrace, it's quite possible haha, but this policy evil is not my doing.
• 1053[13:26:55] <Lope> It might be some automagic shiz done by apt or whatever when it detected chroot.
• 1054[13:27:06] <ratrace> doubtful
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• 1056[13:27:38] <ratrace> it's not really recommended in debian and I doubt any installation procedure would automatically do that.
• 1057[13:27:48] <Lope> btw ratrace I'm SO glad you're here, can you please tell me how the actual fuck to `umount -l /tmp/mychroot/dev/{shm,pts}` without completely destroying the host?
• 1058[13:28:25] <Lope> I did that a few times, and every time, afterwards programs on my host start showing erird errors and complaining about the host's /dev/pts being unavailable etc.
• 1059[13:28:25] <ratrace> Lope: there is now way. chroot is broken under systemd like that. once bound, it's reboot time if you want to untangle that mess
• 1060[13:28:41] <ratrace> I found one solution, which is to run unshare --mount prior to building up the chroot binds
• 1061[13:29:03] <Lope> And the last time it happened, my zpool on my main SSD on my workstation got COMPLETELY corrupted. It won't import. Gives a bunch of IO errors, complaining about objset or whatever.
• 1062[13:29:06] <ratrace> ie use namespaces to separate the chroot bind mounts. then you don't umount, you just tear down the namespace, and poof it's gone gracefully
• 1063[13:29:34] <Lope> However another simultaneous issue I've been having is a ton of power cuts, and my UPS is a piece of crap, so that SSD suffered a lot of unexpected losses of power.
• 1064[13:29:54] <Lope> Not sure if the SSD is screwed or just data corrupted. The luks under the pool opens, but the pool can't import.
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• 1067[13:30:18] <Lope> LUCKILY I copied ALL of the data the night before, to another SSD. Like the best and worst luck combined.
• 1068[13:30:23] <ratrace> I'd be willing to bet on ssd corrupting data under powerloss situations. they're known to do that
• 1069[13:31:01] <Lope> <ratrace> Lope: there is now way. chroot is broken under systemd like that. once bound, it's reboot time if you want to untangle that mess << oh that's F-ing crazy that it's broken!!! I can't believe the beards can't get that right.
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• 1071[13:31:12] <Lope> Damn that lennart! :p j/k
• 1072[13:31:25] <Lope> Pottering or whatever his name is/was
• 1073[13:31:31] <ratrace> just the other day I had a situation where I was messing with pci hotplug for disks. I must've accientally jiggled the poewr cable for one of the btrfs raid member SSDs, and all hell ensued with corrupt data. it fixed itself, becasue the other members of the array were unaffected
• 1074[13:31:46] <ratrace> Lope: yea, *no way btw. tpyo.
• 1075[13:31:51] <Lope> Anyway, I've since decided if I ever need to chroot a disk, I'm going to use a VM, so I don't destroy my host.
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• 1077[13:32:36] <ratrace> Lope: or use unshare. or use systemd-nspawn, but you'll have to --bind all the disk parts under /dev one by one
• 1078[13:33:01] <Lope> ratrace, yeah, I'm just going to use a VM, it's safer.
• 1079[13:33:22] <Lope> unless of course what you're saying is scriptable, surely it is?
• 1080[13:33:40] <Lope> ratrace, unshare? sounds like there is a way to do it?
• 1081[13:33:45] <ratrace> depends what you're doing :) if you'e building gentoo..... there's a bunch of caveats for building under VM with --march=native . offtopic here, just mentioning for heads up
• 1082[13:34:06] <Lope> ratrace, ah, fair enough, can't you fake the host with the VM?
• 1083[13:34:13] <Lope> CPU passthru and all that?
• 1084[13:34:18] <ratrace> Lope: both unshare and systemd-nspawn are as scriptable as chroot is
• 1085[13:34:30] <ratrace> Lope: you must not fake it, that's the key
• 1086[13:35:00] <Lope> ratrace, so what's the unshare equivalent of `umount -l /tmp/mychroot/dev/{shm,pts} #destroy my host, thanks`
• 1087[13:35:15] <ratrace> there is no equivalent, that's apples and oranges
• 1088[13:35:29] <Lope> well, once it's rbind mounted, how do you undo it?
• 1089[13:35:32] <ratrace> when you set up namespacing with unshare, you don't umount, you just tear down the namespace (exit the namespace'd shell)
• 1090[13:35:44] <Lope> whoa
• 1091[13:35:54] <Lope> so you make a namespace, do the rbind mount, then exit the namespace?
• 1092[13:35:57] <ratrace> similarly with systemd-nspawn, you just exit the shell and poof it's gone
• 1093[13:36:57] <ratrace> Lope: if you exit the namespace, it's torn down. so you make the namespace, rbind dev, mount create procfs and sysfs; do the work you need, exit the shell / tear down the namespace
• 1094[13:37:17] <ratrace> exactly the same applies to using systemd-nspawn which does the namespacing for you.
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• 1136[13:50:25] <Lope> ratrace, amazing, sounds like it's FTW. So which do you recommend, systemd-nspawn or namespacing?
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• 1138[13:52:57] <Lope> going to reboot quick
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• 1206[13:57:19] <de-facto> is there any package providing "python-oauth2"?
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• 1208[13:58:47] <ratrace> de-facto: apt search --names-only oauth2 ( | grep python)
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• 1270[14:00:02] <de-facto> ratrace, yeah there is python-oauth2client and python3-oauth2client but thats not exactly it
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• 1272[14:00:17] <ratrace> then what exactly are you looking for?
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• 1276[14:01:18] <de-facto> a debian package that would satisfy the line "import oauth2 as oauth"
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• 1279[14:01:46] <de-facto> e.g. providing the package oauth2 for import in python3
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• 1281[14:02:43] <avu> de-facto: when running or writing Python apps not packaged in Debian, it's usually best to just use a virtualenv
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• 1284[14:03:02] <ratrace> de-facto: I see. I guess that particular module isn't packaged. yeah, I'd use virtualenv and install from pypi
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• 1292[14:03:32] <de-facto> ugh i hate to use those python stuff
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• 1294[14:03:52] <de-facto> i dont want to install things parallel to packages
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• 1299[14:05:19] <ratrace> de-facto: you'll have to pick one among: a) virtualenv+pypi, b) packge it yourself, c) pay someone to package and maintain it for you
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• 1301[14:05:38] <de-facto> yeah im going to have to package it myself then
• 1302[14:05:41] <de-facto> meh
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• 1304[14:05:45] <ratrace> de-facto: _however_ there's a number of python oauth packages in debian. check if they maybe do what you want?
• 1305[14:05:57] <ratrace> de-facto: like, python3-oauthlib provides oauthlib.oauth2
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• 1308[14:06:16] <ratrace> sometimes the packaging is not intuitively reflecting the pypi module name
• 1309[14:06:23] <de-facto> replaced-url
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• 1311[14:06:41] <de-facto> but it needs pip install LOL
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• 1315[14:07:18] <ratrace> de-facto: if you use it inside a virtualenv, pip's there
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• 1320[14:09:41] <ratrace> side note, almost all the software we develop in our company (we do web based SaaS thingies, managed hosting, ...) is in python. all of our python needs are done via virtualenvs and pip installed stuff from pypi. no debian python packages used, unless they're a dependency for something else. maximum control over versions used and needed, atop of otherwise stable debian packages.
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• 1323[14:11:52] <de-facto> yeah maybe its just me, i dont like those virtual env, npm, go get etc
• 1324[14:12:21] <de-facto> maybe inside an LXC or such
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• 1329[14:13:59] <dreamer> it's you
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• 1331[14:14:50] <dreamer> pyenv for local development. docker for testing/deployment
• 1332[14:14:52] <dreamer> (here)
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• 1334[14:15:11] <ratrace> de-facto: virtualenvs are heh..... de facto ..... environments one should use python in :)
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• 1336[14:15:43] <dreamer> it's unfortunate that virtualenvs aren't portable. but they are very easy to recreate which is key here
• 1337[14:15:46] <dreamer> reproducability
• 1338[14:16:05] <de-facto> yeah and if i want to move the path everything breaks or such
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• 1340[14:16:30] <de-facto> hardcoded absolute paths, ugh
• 1341[14:16:35] <dreamer> that's what I just said. it's not portable
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• 1343[14:16:44] <dreamer> but you shouldn't want to move your pyenv
• 1344[14:16:48] <de-facto> yeah
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• 1346[14:17:23] <de-facto> i prefer a proper deb in synergy with the other installed python packages
• 1347[14:17:53] <dreamer> if you are doing python development then system packages are often pretty useless
• 1348[14:18:19] <dreamer> at least I'm very happy that I don't have to think about what system my applications are running
• 1349[14:18:30] <dreamer> as long as the python version is correct and I have pip around. done.
• 1350[14:18:36] <ratrace> indeed
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• 1353[14:18:53] <slop> Hi all <3
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• 1355[14:19:06] <ratrace> and also you're probably power enough user that you need features of new versions and you need to do your own testing and pace upgrades differently from policies of debian
• 1356[14:19:23] <dreamer> for desktopt applications it's a different ballgame of course
• 1357[14:19:26] <dreamer> -t
• 1358[14:19:28] <ratrace> like, I'm not going to wait for 2+ years for fast moving sqlalchemy to fix a bug with later versions....
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• 1360[14:19:52] <dreamer> will be nice to get py3.9 in the next debian stable though :)
• 1361[14:19:55] <hegemoOn> any reason apt upgrade install a kernel-cloud instead of a vanilla kernel ?
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• 1363[14:21:26] <ratrace> de-facto: but we are
• 1364[14:21:31] <ratrace> ,v python3
• 1365[14:21:41] <ratrace> sorry, dreamer ^^^
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• 1367[14:22:00] * ratrace kicks dpkg
• 1368[14:22:03] <dreamer> ratrace: hm?
• 1369[14:22:14] <ratrace> we _are_ gettiny py3.9 in bullseye
• 1370[14:22:18] <dreamer> that's what I'm saying
• 1371[14:22:20] <dreamer> that this is nice
• 1372[14:22:43] * dreamer also needs new cmake -_-
• 1373[14:22:49] <dreamer> when release plox?
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• 1381[14:25:45] <oxek> hegemoOn: do you have linux-image-cloud-amd64 installed?
• 1382[14:25:56] <hegemoOn> yes
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• 1384[14:26:11] <oxek> then that's why cloud images are installed on upgrade
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• 1386[14:26:26] <hegemoOn> no hidden conf which trigger the specific install ?
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• 1388[14:26:44] <oxek> on debian, the metapackage determines what kernel gets installed
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• 1390[14:27:47] <oxek> so there's linux-image-cloud-amd64, linux-image-amd64, linux-image-rt-amd64, ...
• 1391[14:28:06] <oxek> and these metapackages then track which actual kernel gets installed
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• 1397[14:31:33] <ratrace> I think they asked for reasons to use the cloud kernel instead of vanilla
• 1398[14:31:52] <ratrace> ... or not.
• 1399[14:31:52] <oxek> then I misunderstood their question
• 1400[14:32:06] <ratrace> could be I misunderstood too. just noticed the followup answer
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• 1444[15:12:46] <peac> hey there, how can I insert my ssh pubkey in the qcow cloud image ? i've started it in kvm and the admin account does not have a password as per the docs
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• 1481[15:45:07] <ratrace> peac: what qcow cloud image?
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• 1483[15:45:58] <peac> 64bit ARM OpenStack (QCOW) on the right side here replaced-url
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• 1485[15:47:31] <peac> i'm using it directly with kvm without openstack i guess it's made to be used with some kind of provisioning mechanism, but i'm only looking to insert my ssh key to login
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• 1488[15:48:47] <ratrace> peac: do you have console access?
• 1489[15:48:55] <peac> yes, but only to login
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• 1491[15:49:45] <ratrace> well login; enable ssh password auth; reload the service; sftp, scp or rsync your keys where appropriate; disable ssh password auth; reload the service
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• 1493[15:49:55] <peac> i can't login is the issue
• 1494[15:50:03] <peac> neither root or admin accounts have a pass
• 1495[15:50:10] <freem> sudo then
• 1496[15:50:20] <ratrace> peac: you can't login via kvm console using "admin" and no password?
• 1497[15:52:03] <peac> replaced-url
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• 1504[15:56:32] <ratrace> peac: google apparently doesn't know either, what the password is. welp, do the root password change dance then. boot with init=/bin/bash, passwd, reboot ....
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• 1507[15:58:48] <peac> interesting dance, never heard about it yet ! would that be by editing the grub entry ?
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• 1512[16:00:41] <ratrace> peac: yes
• 1513[16:01:17] <ratrace> peac: replaced-url
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• 1523[16:05:47] <peac> debian does not seem to like that dance, using bash or sh results in boot stopping without error message
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• 1525[16:06:01] <peac> replaced-url
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• 1529[16:10:23] <mbrad> you might find it easier to mount the qcow2 image using libguestfs, add data / make changes, umount, and boot
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• 1532[16:11:54] <peac> thanks, i will try that way too. Openstack seems quite tedious to install, would there be another lightweight way to provision it correctly without hacking with init= or mounting with libguestfs ?
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• 1539[16:20:05] <mbrad> The image is a cloud image so, unless I am misunderstanding what image you have, you are likely having issues because cloud-init within the image is expecting userdata with your SSH pub key which opesntack passes to it via a metadata service. The image is for openstack to run, it isn't openstack itself.
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• 1550[16:30:05] <peac> yes that's my understanding too, when i said "provision it" i was talking about the qcow image. Thank you for the clarification. Is there a simple way to use cloud-init the way it's expected without openstack?
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• 1552[16:31:06] <peac> asking because i may have to automate this in the future. Will use libguestfs if i don't find another cleaner way to do it
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• 1565[16:40:11] <mbrad> Ah I see, apologies for any confusion. I would start by taking a look at the doco for cloud-init replaced-url
• 1566[16:40:28] <peac> perfect, thank you !
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• 1568[16:41:52] <mbrad> you're welcome :)
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• 1623[17:32:24] <giaco> how do I know the compilations options used for in an apt package? I'm interested in sqlite3.so
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• 1625[17:32:41] <giaco> sorry for the typo
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• 1628[17:33:55] <azeem> giaco: you can download the source and have a look
• 1629[17:33:59] <azeem> !deb-src
• 1630[17:33:59] <dpkg> You can have apt download the <source package> from which a <binary package> was compiled using a "deb-src" line in your <sources.list>. A line like "deb-src replaced-url
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• 1634[17:35:21] <giaco> azeem: sure, but I guess I have to spot the file that contains the compilation options picked by the maintainer, right?
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• 1638[17:37:39] <giaco> how can I replicate the same operations used by the pipeline that builds deb from src?
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• 1712[17:47:45] <giaco> solved, thanks
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• 1733[17:57:53] <ratrace> giaco: where'd you find them, in the rules file?
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• 1736[17:58:26] <ratrace> or using dpkg-buildflags?
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• 1738[17:59:05] <giaco> ratrace: no, I found a quick way to build bindings to raw sqlite3 C ABI and used a function to ask compiler option
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• 1740[18:00:21] <ratrace> ah
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• 1743[18:00:51] <ratrace> a more generic way would be with dpkg-buildflags
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• 1745[18:01:20] <ratrace> (and the packge rules file)
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• 1748[18:02:52] <giaco> ratrace: thanks!
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• 1776[18:31:28] <LunaLovegood> How do you go about giving each host its own /etc and /var when I boot with PXE and the rootfs is read-only with NFS? In this case, the root fs was installed with debootstrap on the NFS server. As far as I can tell, apt/dpkg installs stuff under /var and /etc, so if I later add packages (apt in chroot on the server), how do make sure they work on the clients?
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• 1781[18:34:39] <LunaLovegood> I was thinking of having a base /var and /etc in the read-only root export, and mounting each client's r/w data somewhere under /tmp and then mounting /var, /etc and /home with overlayfs.
• 1782[18:35:27] <LunaLovegood> or maybe rather /home could be just a bind mount, but you get the idea
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• 1805[19:01:32] <discovered> Anyone can help me diagnose my wireless mouse lagging issue?
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• 1814[19:09:41] <TandyUK> hey guys, if i was once upon a time running debian 7 or 8, configured my network vi /etc/network/interfaces, and have subsequenly dist-upgrade'd to buster, what network config type am i using?
• 1815[19:09:58] <TandyUK> i had a system with quad port onboard (eno[1-4]) and 2 plug in nics, dual port (enp10s0f[01]), and a quad port (enp4s[01]f[01])
• 1816[19:10:04] <sney> the same one, most likely.
• 1817[19:10:09] <TandyUK> having had the quad port burn out, replced it, now the dual port has changed numbers, and my new quad port shows up as ens1f[01] and rename4 and rename9
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• 1819[19:10:34] <TandyUK> not sure how i get "rename4" and "rename9" back to sane (preferably permanent) nic names
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• 1821[19:11:06] <sney> !predictable
• 1822[19:11:06] <dpkg> Starting with Debian 9 (buster), interface names are assigned using the "predictable interface names" scheme. See <replaced-url
• 1823[19:11:23] <TandyUK> rofl "predictable"
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• 1825[19:12:10] <sney> based on physical slot rather than arbitrary enumeration at boot, though it sounds like you were already closer to that than a consumer pc with eth0 and wlan0
• 1826[19:12:26] <TandyUK> sney: no this is an hp server
• 1827[19:13:01] <TandyUK> btu surely if ive replaced nics, in the same slot, with the same make/model of nic (hp nc364t) then the new nic should have the same "predicatble" names
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• 1830[19:14:17] <TandyUK> it actually appears that my "ens2f0" whicvh was our management nic, has also changed
• 1831[19:14:42] <TandyUK> and that card hasnt even moved
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• 1833[19:16:02] <sney> udev/kernel changes over those upgrades, I guess
• 1834[19:16:48] <TandyUK> "predictable" rofl
• 1835[19:17:04] <TandyUK> whoever came up with this idea, id just like to say I want to take them outide and shoot them
• 1836[19:17:24] <TandyUK> along with most of the rest of systemd's "enhancements" tbfh
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• 1849[19:25:47] <drupol> HHello, I'm looking for help to install cpanm in a Debian docker instance
• 1850[19:25:57] *** Joins: zbychuk (~zbychuk@replaced-ip)
• 1851[19:26:05] <drupol> I have this issue:
• 1852[19:26:09] <drupol> replaced-url
• 1853[19:28:38] <jmcnaught> drupol: your /etc/apt/sources.list is probably incomplete, or you need to "apt update". replaced-url
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• 1873[19:41:54] <metbsd> how to fix screen tear when playing movie
• 1874[19:42:28] <metbsd> [AMD/ATI] RV670/680 HDMI Audio [Radeon HD 3690/3800 Series]
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• 1878[19:45:06] <zutat> metbsd: that's the HDMI audio device. is that the only display?
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• 1884[19:53:20] <metbsd> yes
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• 1886[19:55:03] <zutat> metbsd: i don't have a system with X on hand, but first thing i would do is checking that KMS is not disabled. /sys/modules/radeonsomething/modeset should not be zero
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• 1891[19:58:32] <Afdal> Curious why Debian elections use such a complicated Condorcet method
• 1892[19:58:41] <Afdal> Is there a channel where developers have discussed this before?
• 1893[19:59:26] <azeem> why is it complicated
• 1894[19:59:31] <azeem> did you watch the US election?
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• 1896[20:00:21] <Afdal> I am an alternative voting methods advocate and very knowledgeable about this subject
• 1897[20:00:32] <Afdal> that's why I'm interested why Schulze Condorcet was chosen :)
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• 1899[20:00:42] <azeem> condorcet has been in use for like 25 years and there hasn't been any objections to it in the last 20 AFAIK, so it'll be difficult to google it
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• 1902[20:01:05] <Afdal> I could swear I read somewhere that debian elections used to use a different method at some point
• 1903[20:02:33] <azeem> Afdal: maybe check out replaced-url
• 1904[20:02:38] <Afdal> But if that's the case, then my guess would be that it was a point historically where the advantages of cardinal voting methods hadn't yet reached widespread analytical popularity among voting method theorists
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• 1906[20:02:44] <azeem> though that was just a fixup/clarification I think
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• 1908[20:03:18] <Afdal> Ah yes this is interesting indeed, thank you :3
• 1909[20:03:46] <Afdal> How have Debian voters felt about this particular method all these years?
• 1910[20:04:08] <azeem> I guess they're just used to it
• 1911[20:05:02] <Afdal> I wonder if any cardinal methods like Approval, Score, or STAR voting have been considered among FOSS communities recently
• 1912[20:05:17] <azeem> well, not by Debian AFAIK
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• 1916[20:08:29] <Afdal> Schulze method is pretty good among ranked voting methods, but in spite of its complexity it can't quite deliver results as consistently good as simpler cardinal/rating-based voting methods
• 1917[20:09:42] <Afdal> Do any Debian elections employ proportional distribution for multi-winner ballots or is each election for a single winner?
• 1918[20:10:24] <azeem> I guess the latter, but I'm no specialist
• 1919[20:10:56] <azeem> you can try to ask in #debian-devel on irc.debian.org, though I'm not sure you'll get a better answer there/it might be considered off-topi
• 1920[20:10:59] <azeem> c
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• 1922[20:11:55] <Afdal> Aww, invite only
• 1923[20:12:07] <Afdal> oh that's not freenode
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• 1928[20:20:39] <drupol> jmcnaught: here's my file:
• 1929[20:20:44] <drupol> replaced-url
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• 1931[20:23:00] <drupol> jmcnaught: I have absolutely no knowledge in Debian, I don't know if that file is good or not...
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• 1943[20:38:21] <jmcnaught> drupol: that sources.list is no good. You are mixing Debian 9 (stretch/oldstable) with testing/bullseye which will become Debian 11. You should probably start again with a saner Debian image.
• 1944[20:39:28] <drupol> jmcnaught: The Dockerfile corresponding to that is here: replaced-url
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• 1949[20:43:26] <jmcnaught> drupol: I would not use it myself. It is very difficult for #debian to support arbitrary mixes of Debian releases.
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• 1955[20:48:32] <drupol> ok jmcnaught
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• 1957[20:50:02] <drupol> Thanks for the information
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• 1978[21:00:39] <tharkun> Good $DAY, I am having an isue trying to read some pdf files. I have certainty over the password required but atril gives me a password error. I also tried with xpdf and mupdf to view them to no avail. Any slap on the right direction?
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• 1984[21:02:48] <growly> pdftk, evince?
• 1985[21:02:50] <diogenes_> tharkun, try Master PDF
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• 1987[21:03:25] <tharkun> growly: pdftk same isue, evince is not on this piece of hw although I expect the same results.
• 1988[21:03:34] <tharkun> diogenes_: Master PDF?
• 1989[21:04:21] <diogenes_> tharkun, replaced-url
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• 1997[21:08:32] <tharkun> diogenes_: Thanks, for the heads-up but I am looking for an in oficial debian repository solution. I have to roll it to several machines and licenses are a pita when you can't afford a lawyer. (current situation)
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• 2001[21:13:48] <mutante> tharkun: one more is "qpdf". qpdf –password=password –decrypt ...
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• 2003[21:14:29] <mutante> if all else fails and it's because they are made with a new version of Adobe or something.. i would try uploading to docusign.com and then export it again
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• 2015[21:19:56] <tharkun> mutante: it is made with a new version of Adobe. I succesfully unlocked it from my phone but I am still unable to do it from my linux machine.
• 2016[21:19:59] <tharkun> Thanks
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• 2020[21:22:23] <mutante> tharkun: the solutions I see are not really acceptable (run Acrobat in wine, master pdf already mentioned, copy files from Acrobat 8... ) ugh replaced-url
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• 2022[21:22:51] <mutante> tharkun: must be Adobe doing it in purpose.. making PDF not that portable anymore.. grrr
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• 2030[21:29:49] <tharkun> mutante: Thanks, I read the url and so it seems, I will have to figure out a way to do it. Gues it is time to do some nasty ( I am ashamed of myself) hacking to get stuff done. :(
• 2031[21:31:07] <mutante> tharkun: no way to influence the people creating those PDFs?
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• 2036[21:37:07] <Lutin> I'm thinking about mving back to Debian for some servers/docker images... but is Debian not still behind on Ubuntu most of the time ?
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• 2038[21:37:08] <tharkun> I will ask but chances are that I am the only one expreciencing this type of isues.
• 2039[21:38:13] <greycat> !stable
• 2040[21:38:13] <dpkg> [stable] The status of a Debian release when no packages will be added or version-bumped, and changes will only fix security issues and critical bugs. Packages can be removed in rare circumstances. The current stable version of Debian is Buster (10.x); ask me about <releases>. Security bugs are fixed in stable by backporting the fix to the stable version (ask me about <security backports>). replaced-url
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• 2046[21:40:18] <Lutin> greycat that doesn't say much about how far it's behind on Ubuntu LTS
• 2047[21:40:55] <greycat> *plonk*
• 2048[21:41:16] <Lutin> greycat don't push you beer of your desk
• 2049[21:41:21] <greycat> If you're one of those people who believes that the higher the version numbers, the better, then Debian is NOT FOR YOU.
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• 2051[21:41:36] <jmcnaught> Lutin: Debian releases a new frozen stable about every two years, so comparing it to another distro in terms of newness depends on when the comparison is made.
• 2052[21:42:02] <Lutin> greycat nah, 15 years ago you could at least think very much about that with Debian. But sometimes you need the newer packages because software is written against it... that is why I ask
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• 2056[21:43:06] <Lutin> jmcnaught yes that is the difficulty here. I do see some software being able to run on 10.7 where it doesn't support Ubuntu 20.04 where 18.04 is really not what you want at the moment
• 2057[21:44:22] <Lutin> so that is why I ask. Are Debian supporting companies writing against those 2 year releases mostly or ? Back the days I was always running testing, stable was just too old... If I needed something really new and saw it would come to testing quite fast or the experimental was very solid I just ran that after testing, even in prodiction
• 2058[21:44:28] <Lutin> *production
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• 2060[21:44:52] <mutante> Lutin: still working on upgrading TO stable :p
• 2061[21:45:14] <Lutin> mutante OK fossils still exist :P
• 2062[21:45:16] <tharkun> Lutin: "server/docker images... " are purpose build. Case by case analysis is your way to go.
• 2063[21:45:29] <Lutin> tharkun indeed seems so
• 2064[21:45:42] <Mister00X> Lutin: have a look at
• 2065[21:45:44] <tharkun> It has allways been.
• 2066[21:45:47] <Mister00X> !arch linux
• 2067[21:45:47] <dpkg> Arch Linux is an a x86-64 optimized linux distribution which claims to be minimalistic and fast, has binary and source based package management. replaced-url
• 2068[21:45:55] <Lutin> tharkun but as I mostly work from my own base images I wondered
• 2069[21:46:09] <Lutin> Mister00X at what ?
• 2070[21:46:13] <jhutchins> Lutin: Comparing Ubuntu with Debian is a lot like comparing Ubuntu with RedHat. RedHat has a ten year lifecycle.
• 2071[21:46:27] <Mister00X> Lutin: at arch linux
• 2072[21:46:39] <Mister00X> Lutin: bleeding edge rolling
• 2073[21:46:46] <Lutin> jhutchins nah I dont agree on that anymore... we are not in the 2000's anymore
• 2074[21:47:00] <tharkun> Anyway, Adobe screwed me badly this time. Let's see how much of a dent they get from this latest move.
• 2075[21:47:10] <jhutchins> Lutin: What, the ten year lifecycle?
• 2076[21:47:20] * tharkun goes lurking once again.
• 2077[21:47:22] <Lutin> Mister00X could do that but it has some bad documentation I understood from users... need to check
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• 2079[21:47:51] <Lutin> jhutchins they have that but they focus more on things like Fedora and such... things have so much changed there
• 2080[21:48:04] <Lutin> They close CentOS for a reason ;)
• 2081[21:48:21] <Mister00X> yes money
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• 2083[21:48:33] <Lutin> Mister00X indeed
• 2084[21:48:43] <mutante> Lutin: so the server software you want to run can't run on stable?
• 2085[21:48:48] <Mister00X> because paid lts makes more money
• 2086[21:49:37] <Lutin> mutante yes I can but I was wondering if companies support more stable for a long time... with Ubuntu it differs as some software needs newer packages that are not in the old supported LTS
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• 2088[21:50:15] <mutante> Lutin: sounds like a reason to go with Debian instead of Ubuntu
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• 2090[21:51:32] <Lutin> mutante for some software yes
• 2091[21:51:56] <mutante> Lutin: "support for a long time" and "new software" are 2 ends of the spectrum though.
• 2092[21:52:16] <Lutin> the time that I moved to Ubuntu was in 2005 or so when Debian messedup my workstation MDraid1 again when upgrading to a newer release :)
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• 2095[21:52:40] <Lutin> mutante yes that is true but some companies have their own repos for Debian becuase of it
• 2096[21:54:05] <mutante> Lutin: I think it's safe to ignore that incident from 15 years ago. yea, that is probably the way to go if you run into something that you can't find in stable. you can add your own repo to the sources list in addition
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• 2098[21:54:38] <mutante> but I'd still default to stable and then see about exceptions, not the other way around
• 2099[21:55:35] <greycat> If you can't do it in stable, try adding -backports. If you still can't do it, build from upstream sources.
• 2100[21:56:10] <Lutin> mutante yeah it was a pain back the days Debian far always far behind and they messeup everything. I think Ubuntu started because of it and got massive users from Debian because of it. Since Debian 8 things seems to look better I understood... but trut me... if you have a whole cluster running on something with SWraid (which outperformed HW raid already back the days) and it messes up your Workstation with something like the same
• 2101[21:56:10] <Lutin> setup... you are lost
• 2102[21:56:25] <Lutin> mutante yeah sure that is the idea
• 2103[21:56:55] <Lutin> sorry for the typo's ;)
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• 2105[21:57:08] <goddard> anyone use google cloud?
• 2106[21:57:20] <goddard> does it use debian for their instances?
• 2107[21:57:32] <Lutin> goddard why would you ? Once you are sucked in you never get out
• 2108[21:58:01] <goddard> yeah not my choice
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• 2110[21:58:43] <mutante> Lutin: I see where you are coming from but 15 years is a long time and almost everything in Ubuntu is taken from Debian, especially if we don not talk about Desktop stuff. you would have to compare to "Ubuntu Server" and I see no point in that over regular Debian, tbh
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• 2113[21:59:45] <Lutin> mutante no indeed not anymore. Ubuntu is not Debian by far anymore which is maybe good so there is difference again :)
• 2114[21:59:49] <mutante> Lutin: the biggest difference back then was hardware detection in installer and that it comes with some nonfree drivers, afair.
• 2115[22:00:03] <Lutin> mutante yes I remember that!
• 2116[22:00:06] <mutante> they gave up on Unity though
• 2117[22:00:12] <Lutin> yap
• 2118[22:01:12] <mutante> Lutin: if you wanted examples of organizations switching. Wikipedia used to run on Fedora, then Ubuntu and nowadays all Debian
• 2119[22:01:19] <Lutin> mutante in 2003 I was already compiling SATA drivers in for Raid1. Ebay was next to me in the DC and they say... he mate what are you doing here on thoe Supermicro's ? I told them... they said... pretty nifty as we are benchmarking that as well. They were already busy with diskless servers back those days
• 2120[22:01:48] <Lutin> mutante yeah I saw some changes. I need Fedora for some RH specific stuff but still
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• 2122[22:02:58] <Lutin> mutante thanks so far I already builded my Debian 10.7 base image :)
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• 2126[22:07:07] <mutante> Lutin: :) you're welcome
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• 2129[22:07:47] <Lutin> mutante I think so... otherwise I would have been kicked by mentioning the C, D and the F word :)
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• 2132[22:11:47] <Lutin> mutante the main issues with those packages are. had it before a lot... webservers with additional modules which need to talk against backends
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• 2136[22:15:19] <jhutchins> Could we get back to Debian support please? There is #debian-offtopic if you want to continue.
• 2137[22:16:07] <Lutin> oh yea sure
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• 2184[22:57:35] <tp43_> I have nvidia card. But I do no think I have it working.
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• 2187[22:59:06] <jhutchins> tp43_: That's not uncommon.
• 2188[22:59:11] <jhutchins> !nvidia
• 2189[22:59:11] <dpkg> Where possible, Nvidia graphic processing units are supported using the open source <nouveau> driver on Debian systems by default. To install the proprietary "nvidia" driver, see replaced-url
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• 2192[23:00:58] <jhutchins> tp43_: Go to the invidia driver web page and see what version supports your card. See if that version is available through Debian. If not, you'll have to use Nvidia's installer and follow their directions EXACTLY.
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• 2194[23:04:28] <tp43_> jhutchins, I did nvidia-detect. It said install legacy 24xx something like that, and so I did, and then it said I had the free neuveau driver and it is going to install the non free
• 2195[23:04:40] <tp43_> Gotta reboot, brb
• 2196[23:04:44] <tp43_> thx jhutchins
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• 2204[23:07:28] <mehwork> on debian 10, is it ok for me to create an opt/ directory in /usr/local or should i use some other preexisting convention?
• 2205[23:07:51] <greycat> you're allowed to create whatever you want, but it makes no sense for there to be a /usr/local/opt/
• 2206[23:08:04] <dvs> mehwork: why not use /opt?
• 2207[23:08:51] <mehwork> yeah just wondering what the convention is
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• 2210[23:09:21] <mehwork> i was using /usr/local/opt from my bsd days and even on a mac, but i'm not even sure it's correct for those or if i got some bad advice years ago
• 2211[23:09:40] <dvs> mehwork: things have probably changed from years ago.
• 2212[23:09:51] <mehwork> alright thanks
• 2213[23:10:04] <greycat> The hierarchy under /usr/local/ should be the same as the hierarchy under /usr/ (minus the local/ subdir). So you have /usr/local/bin/ /usr/local/share/ and so on.
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• 2215[23:10:32] <tp43_> yep, it works now, I have glx
• 2216[23:10:37] <greycat> /opt is a totally different paradigm, for large self-contained blobby things, like /opt/java-jdk-8/ or something.
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• 2218[23:11:42] <mehwork> is /opt already always meant to be used by user defined things though?
• 2219[23:11:58] <mehwork> i don't want to conflict with apps that might try to install there too
• 2220[23:12:15] <tp43_> I have nvidia legacy drivers installed. Does not work with blender. I am going to try the one from nvidia website now. Danger zone.
• 2221[23:13:09] <dvs> mehwork: debian packages are not allow to install stuff to /opt
• 2222[23:13:26] <mehwork> ok thanks
• 2223[23:13:36] <dvs> np
• 2224[23:15:04] <mehwork> oh, i know where i got the habit from. It's Homebrew on a mac that uses /usr/local/opt
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• 2226[23:15:13] <mehwork> they install stuff there like gnu tool configs
• 2227[23:15:46] *** Quits: conyers (~matt_m@replaced-ip) (Quit: sleepy)
• 2228[23:15:50] <mehwork> but i'll still put my own stuff in /opt
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• 2231[23:19:34] <jhutchins> tp43_: Yay!
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• 2234[23:21:03] <strk> I tried to upgrade from stretch (9) to buster (10) and got:
• 2235[23:21:05] <strk> Error! Could not locate dkms.conf file.
• 2236[23:21:13] <jhutchins> mehwork: I wouldn't install it directly to /opt if there is more than one file. I would suggest /opt/<packagename> in that case.
• 2237[23:21:20] <strk> command was: apt-get install linux-image-4.19.0-13-amd64
• 2238[23:21:24] <mehwork> jhutchins: yeah
• 2239[23:21:31] <strk> which ended up doing: Setting up linux-image-4.9.0-13-amd64 (4.9.228-1) ...
• 2240[23:21:34] <strk> why ?
• 2241[23:21:56] <greycat> because that's what you told it to do
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• 2243[23:22:13] <strk> I told it to install 4.19.0
• 2244[23:22:14] <tp43_> jhutchins, thx.
• 2245[23:22:15] <greycat> did you change your mind halfway through?
• 2246[23:22:16] <strk> not to touch 4.9.0
• 2247[23:22:33] <greycat> oh, I didn't see the change from 4.19 to 4.9
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• 2249[23:22:38] <tp43_> How do I kill X. The display manager will keep restarting. Kill -9?
• 2250[23:22:47] <n4dir> same here, if it reliefs you
• 2251[23:22:58] <greycat> OK, then I suspect either you made a typo somewhere, or you had a half-configured linux-image-4.9.0-13-amd64 lying around and dpkg decided to finish configuring it here
• 2252[23:23:02] *** Quits: tp43_ (~nTP@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2253[23:23:11] <strk> half-configured, yes
• 2254[23:23:29] <strk> can I ask dpkg NOT to finish configuring the old kernel ? Because I'm trying to get rid of it...
• 2255[23:23:40] <greycat> purge it once dpkg is done
• 2256[23:23:53] <strk> now I have both iF linux-image-4.19.0-13-amd64 and iF linux-image-4.9.0-13-amd64
• 2257[23:24:11] <greycat> did you hit ctrl-C instead of waiting?
• 2258[23:24:20] <strk> dpkg --configure linux-image-4.19.0-13-amd64 # also fails
• 2259[23:24:20] <dpkg> strk: KCI error, or a problem with the Keyboard-Chair Interface.
• 2260[23:24:26] <greycat> *sigh*
• 2261[23:24:47] <strk> same error
• 2262[23:24:49] <strk> /etc/kernel/postinst.d/dkms:
• 2263[23:24:50] <greycat> why/how did it fail? are you running out of space somewhere?
• 2264[23:24:51] <strk> Error! Could not locate dkms.conf file.
• 2265[23:25:10] <strk> space is available
• 2266[23:25:21] <jhutchins> strk: What are you using dkms for?
• 2267[23:25:29] <strk> the only error is: Error! Could not locate dkms.conf file.
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• 2269[23:25:38] <strk> jhutchins: I've no idea, I forgot
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• 2271[23:26:05] <strk> I'm ready to purge any dkms users, if knew how...
• 2272[23:26:24] <jhutchins> strk: FIgure that out first. Do you have mlocate installed?
• 2273[23:26:30] <strk> dpkg -l | grep # shows 4 pacakges: aufs-dkms, dkms, spl-dkms, zfs-dkms
• 2274[23:26:30] <dpkg> No packages found matching | grep # shows 4 pacakges: aufs-dkms, dkms, spl-dkms, zfs-dkms
• 2275[23:26:47] <strk> how do I escape dpkg ...
• 2276[23:26:56] <strk> yes ,mlocate is here
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• 2278[23:27:15] <jhutchins> strk: Put something like a space in front of it.
• 2279[23:27:20] <jhutchins> locate dkms.conf
• 2280[23:27:52] <strk> it's in /etc/modprobe.d/dkms.conf
• 2281[23:28:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1209
• 2282[23:28:05] <strk> and also /home/src/spl-0.6.5.9/dkms.conf
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• 2284[23:28:36] <jhutchins> strk: What's in the modprobe version?
• 2285[23:28:56] <strk> only comments
• 2286[23:29:06] <jhutchins> strk: Ownership & permission?
• 2287[23:29:19] <strk> -rw-r--r-- root root
• 2288[23:29:34] <strk> Oct 4 2014, interesting
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• 2290[23:29:46] <strk> # This is a stub file, should be edited when needed, used by default by DKMS.
• 2291[23:29:57] <jhutchins> strk: You could try reinstalling spl
• 2292[23:30:06] <eestiman> Heya... I have an asrock B550m board. Works ok-ish on kernel 4.19. I wanted to update to 5.9. When booting I lose the usage of my USB keyboard (also the resolution seems reduced, not sure if related). I get stuck at unlocking the encrypted drive step (because keyboard is dead). Thankfully, I still have my old kernel in Grub. Is there anything I can do from the old kernel to address the issue?
• 2293[23:30:17] <tp43_> Hi, I am trying to install nvidia proprietary drivers from there website but it says, failed you are currently running X. How do I shut down X?
• 2294[23:30:35] <strk> dpkg --purge aufs-dkms spl-dkms dkms # issued
• 2295[23:30:35] * dpkg drinks a glass of salty water, sticks his fingers down his throat and throws up aufs-dkms spl-dkms dkms # issued all over strk and mapperr...
• 2296[23:30:44] <strk> (space did not help...)
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• 2298[23:31:10] <jhutchins> tp43_: ps ax | grep dm, service <whichdm>stop
• 2299[23:31:25] <strk> the purge helped
• 2300[23:31:26] <eestiman> The board is asrock b550m-itx/ac, if it matters.
• 2301[23:31:45] <tp43_> jhutchins, thx
• 2302[23:32:24] <jhutchins> eestiman: Probably just set it to boot the older kernel.
• 2303[23:32:28] *** Quits: tp43_ (~nTP@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2304[23:33:27] <eestiman> So no way to make 5.9 work? I don't have a compelling reason to do so, but still. Is there anywhere I should report this potential regression?
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• 2311[23:36:09] <tp43_> service command not found. it is SystemD now I tried systemctl but no luck
• 2312[23:36:27] <tp43_> I have lightdm
• 2313[23:36:37] <n4dir> systemctl stop lightdm; didn't work?
• 2314[23:36:55] <tp43_> n4dir, oh no, that is not what I did, let me try that now
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• 2316[23:37:35] <n4dir> not much in systemd, but i think there is some "target" command to switch to TTY only. Enough around here who should know, i can't find it online
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• 2318[23:40:21] <sponix2ipfw> eestiman: there is still a kernel 5.8 available that might be your best solution for decent ryzen support and an actual working kernel
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• 2320[23:40:40] <sponix2ipfw> the bot has a trigger for how to do it, but I can't recall off the top of my head
• 2321[23:40:40] <eestiman> Just tried, same problem.
• 2322[23:40:46] <sponix2ipfw> Oh
• 2323[23:40:49] <sponix2ipfw> bummer
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• 2326[23:42:50] <jhutchins> eestiman: This is why backports are not enabled by default. You should file a bugreport.
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• 2336[23:50:25] <greycat> !multi-user.target
• 2337[23:50:25] <dpkg> Under systemd, graphical.target runs a <dm> and multi-user.target doesn't. You can add «systemd.unit=multi-user.target» to the kernel params to skip the DM once, or run «systemctl set-default multi-user.target» to change permanently. See also <nodm>.
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• 2341[23:53:34] <n4dir> thanks.
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