• 0[00:00:17] <trysten> No progress bar. Apt is not open elsewhere
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• 2[00:01:45] <rgr> oh ok its some new whizzy thing. I like gnome a lot - their tiling etc is superb now. Good luck.
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• 5[00:02:54] <trysten> Maybe new but shouldn't be too whizzy. It's the default way to install software from within Gnome, I presume
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• 8[00:04:26] <trysten> I probably just broke something upgrading to unstable
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• 14[00:07:46] <petn-randall> trysten: Likely!
• 15[00:07:50] <petn-randall> !debian-next
• 16[00:07:58] <trysten> RIP dpkg
• 17[00:08:03] * petn-randall pokes dpkg.
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• 28[00:12:57] <soulseeker> meow
• 29[00:13:04] <soulseeker> here kitty kitty kitty
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• 31[00:13:42] * soulseeker sets down some cat food
• 32[00:14:16] <soulseeker> meanwhile 33 commentary
• 33[00:14:37] <soulseeker> hey, why does apt-get warn of no verification but aptitude runs on
• 34[00:14:47] <soulseeker> does aptitude not check?
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• 36[00:15:14] <soulseeker> any 33 chttr
• 37[00:15:15] *** Joins: ksk (~ksk@replaced-ip)
• 38[00:15:23] <soulseeker> free and open 33
• 39[00:15:33] <soulseeker> chat chat chat
• 40[00:16:04] <soulseeker> chitty chitty chat chat
• 41[00:16:11] <soulseeker> vibrating teeth
• 42[00:16:49] * soulseeker sets the cat food down again
• 43[00:16:58] <soulseeker> see if that sound activates a trigger
• 44[00:17:09] <soulseeker> open sesame!
• 45[00:17:34] <soulseeker> get with the program uniqdom
• 46[00:18:02] <soulseeker> _MrGr33n_ tell me about apt vs aptitude verifications
• 47[00:18:57] <soulseeker> its deneeeeeeew style
• 48[00:19:28] <soulseeker> techmaster peb
• 49[00:19:41] <soulseeker> scratch that record
• 50[00:19:48] <soulseeker> it it its
• 51[00:19:53] <soulseeker> deneeeeeeeew style
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• 54[00:20:39] <soulseeker> interlacing adam7 transparency
• 55[00:20:49] <soulseeker> left the room
• 56[00:21:18] <soulseeker> here kitty kitty kitty
• 57[00:21:35] * soulseeker clangs the catfood can
• 58[00:21:46] <petn-randall> !ot
• 59[00:22:08] <petn-randall> soulseeker: Try to keep it on-topic in this channel. #debian-offtopic is better suited for this.
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• 61[00:23:46] <soulseeker> "if you've seen me youve seen the father" thenderrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrd
• 62[00:23:58] <soulseeker> ba ba bASE
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• 64[00:24:11] <soulseeker> sonic boom!
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• 82[00:39:49] <Marz> i notice on ubuntu server there are a lot of updates but on debian i there are barely any updates. why is that?
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• 90[00:45:23] <ksk> Marz: debian stable means "not changing", so during a relase debian will not version numers of package XY
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• 92[00:45:37] <Marz> i think ubuntu also does that
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• 95[00:49:15] <Unit193> That is indeed the concept of the 'LTS' series, sure.
• 96[00:50:24] <Marz> can't be. there are lots of package updates.
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• 99[00:52:01] <Rockj> I tried submitting an bug report using email towards replaced-url
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• 101[00:54:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1495
• 102[00:56:21] <blackflow> Marz: I answered to you in the #ubuntu-server channel for the same question. Ubuntu does more than just security updates like Debian. on the other hand Debian has point releses that include bugfixes and otehr bumps.
• 103[00:57:21] <Marz> what is meant by point releases
• 104[00:57:37] <blackflow> replaced-url
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• 117[01:04:12] <Marz> ok i got it
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• 145[01:11:46] <Deihmos> when i install debian on my laptop i have to enable legacy boot to get it to boot using efi
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• 147[01:11:53] <Deihmos> i don't get it.
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• 149[01:12:02] <Deihmos> if i don
• 150[01:12:20] <Deihmos> if i don't enable legacy it boots to a black screen
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• 161[01:17:20] <trysten> Just a guess, but perhaps if you install debian when the system is in EFI mode it will work
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• 164[01:22:40] <Deihmos> it installs in efi mode. just can't boot without legacy boot enabled.
• 165[01:22:57] <Deihmos> with legacy boot enabled it still boots in efi mode
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• 167[01:24:34] <tomreyn> broken firmware then.
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• 181[01:43:05] <cheapie> Deihmos: You may have to tell Debian to install GRUB to the removable media path (the installer should ask, or if you're using grub-install manually I think it's the --force-extra-removable option).
• 182[01:43:13] <cheapie> That usually helps work around broken firmware some.
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• 184[01:44:16] <Deihmos> I see. I will try it out.
• 185[01:44:30] <ksk> Rockj: you should kind of get an email reply in time. did your email-address-localparty by any chance match procmailrcs I forgot what variable? :D
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• 187[01:45:02] <ksk> like, mail@example.com will not get trough.
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• 207[02:12:37] <Deihmos> Debian buster install worked.
• 208[02:12:53] <Deihmos> So the issue is with he firmware on Debian 9
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• 212[02:21:40] <dansan> hi hi. I'm using a debootstrap chroot and I would like to create a local .deb file cache or mirror so I don't need to keep downloading them each time I create a new debootstrap, but also so that running apt from within the chroot I can use a local mirror (like mounted to /mnt/apt-cache or something). Can somebody kindly point me in the right direction?
• 213[02:22:04] <dansan> Does it need to be structured like a real mirror with all of the subdirectories?
• 214[02:22:25] <dansan> I only want to cache the files I access, not the whole debian repo :)
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• 221[02:24:17] <dansan> I'm improving a script for building debian chroots, so I plan on repeating this process a number of times. debootstrap lhas a nice --cache-dir option, but I'm looking for one when running apt directly
• 222[02:24:22] <dansan> *has
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• 227[02:25:38] <dansan> And actually, I'm trying to figure out how to build Debian for a currently unbuilt MIPS architecture, which I'll do in a chroot
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• 235[02:29:18] <ksk> dansan: there are specific tools for maintaing a (partial, local) copy of the repositories, but I have heard not so good things about them.
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• 237[02:29:33] <dansan> ksk: well that's invaluable information!! :)
• 238[02:29:37] <dansan> thanks for that!
• 239[02:29:56] <dansan> It's like Gentoo crossdev -- great at some things it does, broken everywhere else
• 240[02:30:30] <dansan> Is there a nifty meta-package (like build-essential) that will pull in all packages needed to build a debian distro?
• 241[02:30:50] <ksk> dansan: another solution: setup an nginx reverse proxy for your choosen debian repository, and use proxy-caching (for 1w, 1m?). then tell your debian systems to use that proxy as repository
• 242[02:30:50] <dansan> Honestly, i'm starting from a compatible arch and only want to tweak it
• 243[02:30:59] <dansan> oooooh!
• 244[02:31:05] <ksk> if you are familiar with nginx, its done in like 15 minutes.
• 245[02:31:07] <dansan> I like that idea
• 246[02:31:17] <dansan> No, I'm not. I will be a learning curve thing
• 247[02:31:27] <dansan> but at least I'm being paid for it, HAH!
• 248[02:31:40] <ksk> and that way, you can eaisly handle 10k+ clients, whereas "specific app" (I was so ignorant to have forgotten their names..) did not like this very much.
• 249[02:32:14] <dansan> oh, with nginx?
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• 251[02:33:00] <ksk> yeah. as its just a webserver serving plain (cached) files it performs very well, compared to some fully fledged "I know everything about debian packages" software.
• 252[02:33:11] <dansan> oh cool, Debian has crossbuild-essential-* packages. I'm doing this in a qemu/binfmt chroot
• 253[02:33:23] <dansan> ahhh
• 254[02:33:29] <dansan> That would indeed be interesting
• 255[02:33:40] <dansan> Thanks, I'll have to read up on that
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• 265[02:37:16] <ksk> dansan: replaced-url
• 266[02:37:40] <ksk> (just ignore all lines including vagrant)
• 267[02:38:08] <dansan> oh perfect! :)
• 268[02:38:11] <dansan> thank you
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• 271[02:38:22] <ksk> welcome.
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• 276[02:47:05] <ksk> dansan: for the sake of completeness, "apt-cacher-ng" is "caching proxy server for software repositories"
• 277[02:47:21] <ksk> maybe compare them and take what suites you better.
• 278[02:47:24] <bongobongo55> /j #opensourcemusicians
• 279[02:48:18] <dansan> oh, that's interesting
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• 282[02:49:34] <dansan> For now I think I'm gong to just create a new chroot as the build-deps for what I want to do is 500M of downloads :)
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• 284[02:49:51] <dansan> *going
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• 287[02:50:32] <dansan> interesting that apt doesn't have an option to just have a flat directory of .deb files cached. I mean, if you have all of the repo, I know you don't want that in a single directory
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• 289[02:51:13] <ksk> apt does keep the downloaded packages for some time on disk.
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• 292[02:51:46] <ksk> you can put them there I think, and apt might then notice them, though I never tried it this way around.
• 293[02:52:01] <dansan> yeah, but I haven't been successful and feeding it those packages manually. I guess they have to be in the package and source indexes
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• 321[03:10:21] <dansan> So when I install packages using apt-get build-dep some-package, is apt or dpkg storing "build-dep some-package" as what was selected or does each package end up being selected, as if I had manually installed them with apt-get install?
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• 323[03:12:02] <ksk> apt is just a frontend to dpkg. dpkg installs packages via a .deb file. one .deb per package.
• 324[03:12:47] <ksk> build-dep iirc looks up which packages are needed to build some-package, and marks them for installation
• 325[03:12:53] <ksk> as described in man apt-get
• 326[03:13:28] <dansan> interesting. At what level are packages marked as chosen by the user or installed due to dependency?
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• 330[03:14:18] <dansan> So I would presume there's a set of packages that are selected by the user and then the resultant set of those packages plus all of their deps
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• 332[03:15:18] <ksk> yes. I would think apt keeps account of that.
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• 334[03:15:22] <dansan> btw, it looks like using debootstrap --download-only and --cache-dir not only puts them in your cache-dir, but also populates the target /var/cache/apt with them, so that's very efficient :)
• 335[03:15:34] <dansan> ksk: ok, thanks. Just curious
• 336[03:15:45] <ksk> aptitude has a "why" option, which tells you why a package was installed, not sure how to query apt/dpkg to get that info
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• 338[03:15:52] <dansan> cool!!
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• 346[03:17:51] <dansan> So this is nifty, I can at least run debootstrap as many times as I want with --include=<packages> and it will cache them in my --cache-dir and also populate the chroot-to-be
• 347[03:18:21] <rant> dansan: apt and dpkg both keep logs in /var/log/ any package explicitly mentioned is marked manual deps are marked autoinstaled
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• 349[03:19:08] <dansan> rant: ty. Do you happen to know where it stores that? :) I guess I can look it up shortly
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• 352[03:20:31] <rant> dansan: /var/log/apt/history.log /var/log/apt/term.log /var/log/dpkg.log they ate also rotated and archived
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• 358[03:21:32] <dansan> rant: Well I mean the database its self rather than the log.
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• 368[03:26:42] <rant> dansan: /var/lib/dpkg/
• 369[03:27:17] <rant> dansan: see files section of man dpkg
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• 371[03:27:25] <dansan> yeah, that's what I was thinking, just looking for the bit that makes them :)
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• 383[03:43:03] <dansan> rant: I got a one-liner that's close, but not perfect: diff -u0 <(grep Pack /var/lib/apt/extended_states |awk '{print $2}'|sort -u) <(apt list --installed| awk -F/ '{print $1}')|grep '^[-+]'
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• 385[03:43:18] <dansan> it seems to still list packages in the base installation
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• 390[03:53:36] <Deihmos> on debian testing if i uninstall firefox it auto installs chrominium and the other way around
• 391[03:54:54] <rant> Deihmos: testing is supported on #debian-next on irc.oftc.net but sounds to me like something requires replaced-url
• 392[03:55:16] <Deihmos> no support needed. just foudn the behavior strange
• 393[03:55:19] <rant> Deihmos: which means uninstalling one requires installationg of another to avoid breakage
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• 396[03:55:44] <Deihmos> chrome is already installed
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• 399[03:56:58] <rant> Deihmos: install aptitude and do aptitude why chromium or such, chaces are chrome does not provide the needed package.. this could be resolved with equivs once you narrow down what is required
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• 401[03:58:32] <rant> alternatively without aptitude you can just tell apt to remove both and see what else it wants to uninstall and build an equivs package to satisfy
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• 403[03:59:17] <rant> however aptitude has the necessary skill to figure this out more effectively
• 404[04:00:47] <rant> dansan: yeah I have no idea what you're doing, I only caught the tail end of your line of questions drunk from my cell phone :D
• 405[04:01:02] <dansan> rant: lmao!!!!
• 406[04:01:08] <dansan> rant: Don't worry, I don't either :)
• 407[04:01:47] <dansan> hmm. What would I have to do to build a Debian distro using musl for libc instead of glibc? It looks like I can install it with apt-get install musl-dev musl-tools, but then maybe try to build all of the deps of apt?
• 408[04:01:57] <dansan> I guess I should create another arch called mipsel-musl?
• 409[04:02:18] <dansan> yeah, I want to see how lean I can get Debian to run on a MIPS 24KEc with 128MiB of ram
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• 412[04:03:02] <dansan> I renounce any claim to sanity :)
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• 427[04:16:00] <rant> dansan: that's not allowed
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• 429[04:17:15] <aloo_shu> dansan: isn't it more a dependency than an arch thing? You'd probably have to recompile all pkgs that depend on glibc. A friend who's using a source based distro, said that for him, building for glibc or musl, wasn't much more than setting a switch in the build env
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• 446[04:41:20] <dansan> aloo_shu: Thanks for the response. Yes, I want to rebuild all of the packages, at least the ones I care about. But my point is how shall I distinguish these new packages from those compiled against glibc? In common *nix systems, we use the "triplet" of <arch>-<machine>-<libc>, like mipsel-unknown-linux-musl
• 447[04:41:27] <dansan> I think I said the triplet wrong
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• 449[04:42:21] <dansan> I usually see four pieces, I guess it's <machine>-<kernel>-<libc>, but machine can be a combination of arch-specific_machine or something
• 450[04:43:42] <dansan> Maybe I'll just give them an arch with a standard "triplet"
• 451[04:44:17] <dansan> Plus I want to build it optimized for a specific chip, mips32r2 instruction set
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• 481[05:17:57] <aloo_shu> will probably depend on if you want to use your pkgs in a private repo, or contribute them to debian, dansan
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• 483[05:22:04] <aloo_shu> you may have to change some pkgs' dependencies, too, allow them to depend on your alternatives, too
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• 486[05:25:09] <aloo_shu> I wonder if that's already being done consequently, making sure that all pkgs that *could* run with alt libc s as they are, are also allowed so depedency-wise
• 487[05:25:48] <aloo_shu> nvm
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• 513[06:04:50] <FesterJester> Anyone know how to change screen resolution without using xrandr?
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• 515[06:07:24] <Hooloovo0> there's a couple gui programs which can do it
• 516[06:07:41] <Hooloovo0> which window manager do you use?
• 517[06:07:58] <FesterJester> I am running a console, no GUI/window manager
• 518[06:08:49] <Hooloovo0> it might depend on the type of console, there may or may not be a way
• 519[06:08:55] <Hooloovo0> xrandr definitely won't work for that
• 520[06:09:33] <FesterJester> xrandr just complains about "can't open display"
• 521[06:10:35] <FesterJester> the distro I am using is actually slax 9.8, but there is no one in that channel right now
• 522[06:10:36] <Hooloovo0> xrandr runs on top of X, so if there's no X server running, xrandr can't do anything
• 523[06:11:33] <jcb2016> why do people prefer the console over X. i understand doing stuff in the console but not live in it FesterJester you can use X and novbody will judge you
• 524[06:11:46] <Hooloovo0> should probably be similar, though I'm going to grumble over the lack of support
• 525[06:11:54] <milkt> Hooloovo0: i also have similar question, is there way to change screen solution of virtual console?
• 526[06:12:12] <milkt> s/solution/resolution/
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• 528[06:13:13] <FesterJester> I am setting up a server and I have no reason for X
• 529[06:13:28] <rant> FesterJester: you should run debian, it has a better support community.. and xrandr has nothing to do with your console resolution, thats handled by the kernel, xrandr only handles the X server
• 530[06:13:36] <jcb2016> cool. yea i don't understand why regular desktop people don't use X not server people
• 531[06:13:40] <madage> kernel parameters FesterJester
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• 533[06:14:00] <tehnull> anyone ever gotten fortressone working on debian? replaced-url
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• 535[06:14:22] <Hooloovo0> hmm, might not be trivial, fbset might somewhere to look
• 536[06:14:39] <Hooloovo0> but you shouldn't be using the real physical console for very long
• 537[06:15:08] <Hooloovo0> you should switch to ssh as soon as it's convenient
• 538[06:15:15] <FesterJester> @rant: I would gladly run debian if I can boot it from a USB into RAM and then remove the USB.
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• 540[06:15:29] <Hooloovo0> FesterJester, install to RAM?
• 541[06:15:46] <Hooloovo0> what's the purpose of a server if it deletes everything on a reboot?
• 542[06:16:09] <Hooloovo0> why not just install debian to the USB?
• 543[06:16:35] <FesterJester> because I have 3 servers and one usb
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• 545[06:16:55] <FesterJester> and I only need ti use them for a short period
• 546[06:17:08] <tehnull> error while loading shared libraries: libjpeg.so.8
• 547[06:17:20] <FesterJester> And I like the challenge
• 548[06:17:23] <tehnull> is there a package that I'm just not finding that provides this dependency?
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• 550[06:17:55] <Hooloovo0> not sure what kind of server you can run without state, but ok
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• 552[06:18:34] <FesterJester> @tehnull: have you tried 'apt install libjpeg'
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• 555[06:18:57] <tehnull> E: Unable to locate package libjpeg
• 556[06:19:30] <tehnull> fairly certain it was removed from repos a year or 2 ago according to some of the forum posts I've read
• 557[06:20:29] <tehnull> I have libjpeg62-turbo installed but that's doing nothing for me
• 558[06:21:24] <Hooloovo0> I've seen a similar-sounding error with old versions of altera/intel quartus
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• 560[06:22:50] <Hooloovo0> the solution I found was to find an old deb (maybe on the debian archives, if nothing current shows up) and install it
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• 563[06:23:18] <Hooloovo0> I'm not recommending it, the real solution is to fix the package with the problem
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• 600[07:21:07] <oiaohm> Hmm debian update just told me my 630 gt was not support by the 410.93 driver yet the Nvidia site says otherwise this is going to get interesting
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• 610[07:26:33] <SpeedyG> its really too bad that linux and gfx drivers still feels like windows98... it works often, but when its b0rked, it fubar :(
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• 623[07:32:02] <jim> what types of ssh keys are people using these days? something secure and not yet broken
• 624[07:32:39] <oiaohm> SpeedyG: I have had windows forbar windows graphics drivers more often than Linux.
• 625[07:33:24] <oiaohm> SpeedyG: graphic card deprecation time on all platforms things get interesting.
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• 636[07:38:21] <at0m> oiaohm: same issue in testing: get notified on apt upgrade without option not to proceed
• 637[07:38:54] <at0m> oh i /do/ get choice not tto install now
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• 639[07:39:45] <at0m> the choice was a bit further in the install process
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• 641[07:42:42] <oiaohm> at0m: my problem is who is right. I am going to cliff dive to 410.93 The last time deprecation came up on a card I had. I run into the same problem with Nvidia information being confusing to everyone.
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• 643[07:43:32] <at0m> oiaohm: what does nvidia-detect say? for better or worse, i'd follow that..
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• 649[07:50:06] <oiaohm> at0m: it says I should stick to nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver but nvidia on site on the driver for the card says different.
• 650[07:51:15] <oiaohm> at0m: I know Nvidia did change there mind on what cards were exactly on the deprecated list.
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• 652[07:51:48] <oiaohm> I have noted down the nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver in root home will reboot with never driver and cross fingers.
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• 682[08:06:32] <maxrazer> If I install a package with gdebi and autoremove it with apt is it normal for it to not remove the .desktop files?
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• 684[08:06:48] <maxrazer> I removed some packages and the applications were still listed in the application menu
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• 690[08:09:51] <mrig> Hello
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• 694[08:10:11] <maxrazer> mrig, Hi
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• 697[08:13:20] <mrig> I have a driver less printer that very nearly works; I was wondering if anyone could help me to get a full page of text from it in reasonable delay?
• 698[08:13:47] <mrig> it is a canon i9950 that is not in the cups printer list.
• 699[08:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1502
• 700[08:14:18] <maxrazer> mrig, I don't think I've ever printed from linux. But I don't have knowledge of unsupported printers. Probably best to find a supported one.
• 701[08:14:51] <mrig> Na, hacking is the best tool, there must be a way.
• 702[08:15:03] <mrig> it is printing, just not properly.
• 703[08:15:53] <maxrazer> mrig, What is this? replaced-url
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• 706[08:16:12] <mrig> I think is is close to achieving moksha, goes off into bouts of spontaneous mediation.
• 707[08:16:26] <mrig> maxrazer a proprietary scam?
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• 710[08:16:55] <mrig> I not like paying to use something that I have already bought.
• 711[08:16:55] <maxrazer> It says try 30 days, which seems odd. Could be something that works.
• 712[08:17:20] <mrig> yes it works very well, I would rather make this my pet hacking project.
• 713[08:17:21] <maxrazer> But canon didn't make linux drivers for it and neither did any come with the os
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• 715[08:17:50] <maxrazer> I tinker with linux, but generally it is more of an anxious behavior than a rewarding one.
• 716[08:18:00] <mrig> I have a color calibrated system, if I can get at the working I could make a reasonable attempt.
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• 718[08:18:26] <CrazyTux> hello, has anyone here used manjaro also?
• 719[08:18:27] <maxrazer> mirage335, I just got Debian Testing XFCE setup. Had to replace the menu which was too buggy.
• 720[08:18:47] <maxrazer> CrazyTux, I've tried it before and tried it again today. Decided to remove it.
• 721[08:18:49] <mrig> maxrazer oh I don't believe in anxiety, that is systemic indoctrination and an effect of Munchhausen's,
• 722[08:19:01] <mrig> maxrazer learn about either prana or chi.
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• 724[08:19:17] <CrazyTux> maxrazer, in terms of bugfreeness which is better, Debian testing or manjaro?
• 725[08:19:39] <maxrazer> mrig, Well, it feels bad when I try to figure these things out. I don't feel relaxed and exhilarated. I don't feel refreshed like I've done good work. I feel like I was being compulsive and wasting time.
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• 727[08:20:04] <mrig> maxrazer yes see the systemic indoctrination, it is very profound,
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• 729[08:20:35] <maxrazer> mrig, No, really I think this activity is not as good and rewarding for me. It depends on what you value I think.
• 730[08:20:38] <mrig> well it is rather just plain old ignorance but that is how it manifests.
• 731[08:20:51] <mrig> maxrazer yes wonderful point.
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• 734[08:21:22] <mrig> I think that you are quite right, the word value is greatly misinterpreted.
• 735[08:21:22] <maxrazer> Like distro hopping and obsessing over find some linux distro setup that works, when to do my work and play games I can mostly just use windows and I don't even really need Linux much.
• 736[08:21:51] <mrig> maxrazer ah a wavering mind without a point to focus upon.
• 737[08:22:03] <maxrazer> I've spent the last three days trying out distros and experimenting with building packages with game-data-packager
• 738[08:22:06] *** Quits: masuberu (~masber@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 739[08:22:13] <maxrazer> Trying to get things to work.
• 740[08:22:20] <Unit193> fling: I mentioned 'surf' offhandedly, well finally tried it out and it is most certainly not the direction I would go. That leaves lariza as so far the best replacement, even though it's lacking.
• 741[08:22:20] <mrig> mind that is another great word that is far to subjective,
• 742[08:22:46] <maxrazer> Unit193, Surf keeps crashing on sid opening any website but google.com and c-span.org
• 743[08:22:47] *** Joins: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip)
• 744[08:22:51] <mrig> maxrazer are you running debian, which version?
• 745[08:23:12] <maxrazer> mrig, Debian testing/buster right now. I used the netinstall testing-xfce-CD1.iso. I normally run Sid.
• 746[08:23:30] <CrazyTux> maxrazer, in terms of bugfreeness which is better, Debian testing or manjaro?
• 747[08:23:31] <at0m> maxrazer: sid/testing is ircs://irc.oftc.net/debian-next
• 748[08:23:40] <Unit193> maxrazer: Yes I ended up liking lariza better.
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• 750[08:23:52] <mrig> maxrazer: better off starting with stretch right now.
• 751[08:24:16] <mrig> then understanding what it is that your system requires to work.
• 752[08:24:25] <mrig> and building up from there.
• 753[08:24:52] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip) ()
• 754[08:24:57] <maxrazer> mrig, I normally use the iso on the front page and change the sources to sid.
• 755[08:24:58] <mrig> That is the approach that I like to take anyhow.
• 756[08:25:31] <maxrazer> Unit193, I mostly just use Chromium. I tried surf because I was using DWM a lot and thought maybe there would be some time when I'd want to use it.
• 757[08:26:46] <CrazyTux> mrig, are you the guy who is interested in yoga and ancient Indian philosophy?
• 758[08:26:52] *** Quits: Rogalian (~cools@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
• 759[08:26:52] <mrig> maxrazer slow down a little and I am sure that you can figure out what the maximum gaming capacity is for your machine.
• 760[08:27:20] <maxrazer> mrig, I'm not sure what that means.
• 761[08:27:32] <mrig> CrazyTux hello, is Indian philosophy not an oxymoron, I prefer to call it science. :)
• 762[08:27:43] <mrig> the origin of math
• 763[08:27:57] <mrig> wall as we know it today anyhow.
• 764[08:27:57] *** Joins: Rogalian (~cools@replaced-ip)
• 765[08:28:13] <CrazyTux> mrig, yes. Hindu philosophy is very much scientific.
• 766[08:28:24] <maxrazer> I consider real philosophy to be a science. It was the original science from which all the others are derived.
• 767[08:28:37] <mrig> very often op to 500 years in advance of other cultures.
• 768[08:28:41] <Hooloovo0> arguable
• 769[08:28:57] <mrig> Hooloovo0 yes philosophers love to argue,
• 770[08:29:13] <mrig> not harmonious nor conducive to good health.
• 771[08:29:50] <CrazyTux> mrig, replaced-url
• 772[08:29:51] <Hooloovo0> Natural Philosophy isn't really identical with modern science,
• 773[08:30:18] *** Joins: chele (~chele@replaced-ip)
• 774[08:30:28] <Hooloovo0> it's more of a precursor, a source of ideas
• 775[08:30:46] *** Quits: Old_Dog (~Old_Dog@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 776[08:30:47] <mrig> maxrazer I think that the linguistic system is flawed, just examine the word philosophy and understand what it means to see why, today it contradicts its self without being aware that it is doing so.
• 777[08:31:11] <mrig> etymology is scientific if the language supports it.
• 778[08:31:17] <mrig> only if
• 779[08:31:19] <maxrazer> love of wisdom
• 780[08:31:32] <Hooloovo0> also how did this get so derailed so quickly
• 781[08:31:37] <mrig> heh
• 782[08:31:51] <mrig> bloody printer, needs a yoga
• 783[08:32:05] <mrig> a yolk a harness.
• 784[08:32:09] * Hooloovo0 brings the printer together
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• 786[08:32:49] <bluemuse> can someone tell me what the normal hours are for the mentors channel?
• 787[08:32:52] <mrig> yes merge it with my os, giving me the siddhi so that I need not write by hand,
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• 790[08:33:47] <mrig> maxrazer do you know what your graphics card is and what type?
• 791[08:34:17] <maxrazer> mirg, yes, why? It is an NVIDIA GTX 1080 TI SC2 from EVGA
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• 793[08:35:14] <mrig> wow nice piece of hardware,
• 794[08:36:03] *** Joins: CrazyTux (~dolphin@replaced-ip)
• 795[08:36:30] <maxrazer> yeah, I was thinking of going with a cheaper graphics card and CPU, but I hadn't had a gaming PC in about 15 years, so i wanted to see what the best could do.
• 796[08:36:43] <maxrazer> I wanted to try 144hz gaming at 1080p.
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• 798[08:36:54] <mrig> maxrazer, I have no experience with this type of device, I am sorry but I can not be of much help.
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• 802[08:38:20] <mrig> maxrazer well this is a domain for the more experienced user perhaps. I find those devices for games to by in ecological.
• 803[08:38:35] <mrig> not my place to say more.
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• 806[08:38:54] <maxrazer> mrig, I sent you a direct message
• 807[08:39:42] <mrig> maxrazer: Yes I noticed :)
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• 815[08:46:19] <leni536> Hi, how do I disable pulseaudio temporarily?
• 816[08:46:34] <leni536> I tried pasuspender and systemctl --user stop pulseaudio.service
• 817[08:46:42] <leni536> and neither seems to work
• 818[08:47:29] <zZ0O0z> why not kill it ?
• 819[08:47:39] <leni536> it just reappears
• 820[08:47:45] <zZ0O0z> OK
• 821[08:47:55] <leni536> even after stopping it from systemctl
• 822[08:48:18] <leni536> I have no idea what restarts it
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• 824[08:48:32] *** Quits: mbourhis (~mbourhis@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 825[08:48:36] <zZ0O0z> me neither. not even what starts it besides when I do it manually
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• 828[08:50:11] <leni536> well, nowadays pulseaudio being a systemd user service, I thought that systemd manages it
• 829[08:50:25] <SerajewelKS> pulseaudio automatically starts when a client tries to use it
• 830[08:50:39] *** Joins: mbourhis (~mbourhis@replaced-ip)
• 831[08:50:43] <SerajewelKS> (by default)
• 832[08:50:54] <maxrazer> I think I had pulseaudio go crazy on me recently and crash or something. I kept getting couldn't establish connection to pulse audio server.
• 833[08:51:02] <maxrazer> In the mixer window it kept saying that too.
• 834[08:51:07] <maxrazer> I was using audacity to record.
• 835[08:51:15] <SerajewelKS> you can disable this in /etc/pulse/client.conf by setting autospawn=no
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• 837[08:52:00] <SerajewelKS> maxrazer: pulse suspends access to the audio hardware when nothing is playing. if something else comes along and uses ALSA directly then pulse may no longer be able to use the hardware until that program releases the card.
• 838[08:52:20] <maxrazer> I notice that in Audacity it says the source is ALSA
• 839[08:52:32] <maxrazer> XFCE comes with pulse, but I've thought of just removing it.
• 840[08:52:36] <mrig> oh dear my poor printer is doing a quarter of a line every 15 mins.
• 841[08:52:46] <SerajewelKS> by default, if pulse is running ALSA should use the pulse output device
• 842[08:52:53] *** Joins: admino (~admino@replaced-ip)
• 843[08:52:54] <mrig> Does anyone know how to flush the printers buffer?
• 844[08:52:57] *** Joins: glongo (uid17594@replaced-ip)
• 845[08:53:00] <SerajewelKS> but some programs might specifically select a different device
• 846[08:53:05] <SerajewelKS> so it depends how you configured audacity
• 847[08:53:09] <mrig> The system not he machine,
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• 849[08:53:46] <SerajewelKS> mrig: you have to remove the jobs from the cups queue. how you do that depends on your DE.
• 850[08:53:54] *** Joins: a_l_b (~a_l_b@replaced-ip)
• 851[08:53:55] <mrig> and the stack or the que.
• 852[08:54:02] <SerajewelKS> you can also visit the cups management interface directly, i think it's replaced-url
• 853[08:54:13] <leni536> cancel -a
• 854[08:54:20] <mrig> SerajewelKS I thought that I had, there is a serious latency issue it would seem.
• 855[08:54:29] <leni536> ^ shouldn't this cancel all print jobs?
• 856[08:54:40] <SerajewelKS> mrig: cups may not be able to cancel a print job already in progress
• 857[08:55:07] <SerajewelKS> leni536: that should also work, i didn't know about that command
• 858[08:55:21] *** Quits: BenNZ (~Ben__@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 859[08:55:34] <SerajewelKS> it is also rather poorly named, but that's a different discussion
• 860[08:55:36] <mrig> that is the issue, I have also launched a job from gedit, I notice that it is not the same print system.
• 861[08:56:02] <leni536> I usually cancel -a, but if my printer is already printing I pull out the empty papers, then it eventually stops :)
• 862[08:56:23] <SerajewelKS> isn't cups about the only print system remaining in 2019?
• 863[08:56:36] <SerajewelKS> i'd be shocked if gedit is using anything else
• 864[08:56:54] <mrig> leni536 wonderful, that has worked.
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• 867[08:58:25] <mrig> SerajewelKS oh that is a handy address to know, thank you.
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• 870[09:00:27] <SerajewelKS> mrig: np. note by default it wants root's username and password.
• 871[09:00:38] *** Quits: schiz01 (~schiz01@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 872[09:00:40] <SerajewelKS> to make any changes, that is
• 873[09:01:09] <SerajewelKS> i think there is a way to configure it to permit another user to make changes, but i haven't done that myself
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• 876[09:01:29] <SerajewelKS> i try to spend as little time fiddling with cups (and printers in general) as possible
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• 883[09:06:11] <leni536> You have to add yourself to lpadmin
• 884[09:06:11] <quantumman> Hello, does anyone know how to run a bash script on GUI login?
• 885[09:06:26] <mrig> Yes it would appear that I have no other option at the moment, I did manage to get it working from gedit and vim some time back, but I think for that I had installed ghostscript or something else.
• 886[09:06:32] <mrig> SerajewelKS:^
• 887[09:06:49] <zZ0O0z> quantumman in KDE its easy
• 888[09:07:11] <quantumman> I am using xcfe I think
• 889[09:07:23] <zZ0O0z> xfce suxx badly dude
• 890[09:07:24] <leni536> quantumman: ~/.xsessionrc runs on gui login regardless of DE, I think
• 891[09:07:35] *** Quits: ztychr (~ztychr@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 892[09:07:41] <zZ0O0z> etc xdg autostart
• 893[09:08:54] <maxrazer> zZ0O0z, What do you recommend?
• 894[09:09:48] <quantumman> I am just doing sh $HOME/nordvpn.sh
• 895[09:09:58] <zZ0O0z> maxrazer sry forgot the question ...
• 896[09:10:06] <maxrazer> zZ0O0z, What window manager / desktop?
• 897[09:10:11] <quantumman> which does the command 'nordvpn connect'
• 898[09:10:31] <zZ0O0z> KDE of course !! what a question !!!
• 899[09:10:38] <maxrazer> ok
• 900[09:10:41] *** Quits: maxrazer (~razer@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 901[09:11:18] <zZ0O0z> GTK is OK but does not mean one has to go for gnome or some cr@p
• 902[09:11:30] *** Joins: clemens3 (~clemens@replaced-ip)
• 903[09:11:31] <mrig> bah, and the crazy thing is now that if I put the document onto a usb stick, they will not trust it. Due to their lack of understanding of prana.
• 904[09:11:42] <quantumman> using
• 905[09:11:49] <quantumman> /usr/sbin/lightdm
• 906[09:12:37] <CrazyTux> has anyone here used or are using sparky linux?
• 907[09:12:40] *** Quits: kupad (kupad@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 908[09:12:48] <zZ0O0z> no. nobody.
• 909[09:13:09] *** Joins: taikoara (~koalakill@replaced-ip)
• 910[09:13:09] <quantumman> that's the cat /etc/X11/default-display-manager
• 911[09:13:17] <zZ0O0z> indeed it is
• 912[09:13:38] <at0m> CrazyTux: at least ask your real question. or better, /msg alis list sparky and ask there if that returns a channel
• 913[09:14:25] <quantumman> leni536 I'll try your one
• 914[09:14:33] <quantumman> brb lol
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• 920[09:16:45] <quantumman> leni536 it didn't work, got any other ideas?
• 921[09:16:54] <quantumman> I am running debian voyager
• 922[09:17:02] <quantumman> but should be the same
• 923[09:18:33] <quantumman> Logged out via GUI and Logged in again via GUI -- script not run
• 924[09:18:37] <zZ0O0z> etc xdg autostart
• 925[09:18:48] <zZ0O0z> looked there ??
• 926[09:18:59] <quantumman> checking now
• 927[09:19:09] <zZ0O0z> abot time
• 928[09:19:13] <zZ0O0z> about time
• 929[09:20:03] *** Quits: mr_daemon (~supernaut@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 930[09:20:15] <leni536> I suggest ~/.config/autostart if you don't want it to be systemwide
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• 934[09:21:58] <quantumman> I tried running a script there by creating a nordvpn.desktop -> 'sh $HOME/nordvpn.sh' -> nordvpn connect
• 935[09:22:21] <quantumman> do I need to echo nordvpn connect in the script?
• 936[09:22:25] <blackflow> !based on debian
• 937[09:22:35] <blackflow> ehwheresthebot....
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• 942[09:23:45] <zZ0O0z> try put it in .bashrc
• 943[09:23:52] <blackflow> quantumman: you'll need to seek help in voyager specific forums. we have no idea what and where they changed something so any advice given could be correct, or could not, who knows. you migt be wasting your time.
• 944[09:24:06] <zZ0O0z> what is debian voyager anyway ?
• 945[09:24:13] *** Quits: fedorafan (~fedorafan@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
• 946[09:24:14] <blackflow> but in short, create a .desktop launcher for your script and use your DE's autostart capabilities for that launcher
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• 949[09:24:41] <zZ0O0z> XFCE has no capabilities whatsoever
• 950[09:24:42] *** Joins: Rogalian (~cools@replaced-ip)
• 951[09:25:14] <blackflow> first result on googs for "xfce autostart": replaced-url
• 952[09:25:42] *** Joins: DeSian (~sia@replaced-ip)
• 953[09:25:56] <quantumman> replaced-url
• 954[09:26:07] *** Quits: fekir (~fekir@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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• 957[09:26:51] <blackflow> arch has a nice wiki entry too: replaced-url
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• 959[09:28:22] <quantumman> pretty sure I tried that as well
• 960[09:29:00] <blackflow> there's #xfce on freenode too, btw
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• 962[09:29:09] <quantumman> personally I think this distro is abit hacky
• 963[09:29:33] <quantumman> It got heaps of good things about it, but fuck me - alotta work
• 964[09:29:43] <blackflow> yeah well you should be asking for help in their specific forums and channels. "based on debian" is NOT debian. who knows what modifications they do.
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• 969[09:31:50] <zZ0O0z> believe me, using cfce u dug ureself into a corner LOL
• 970[09:31:57] *** Joins: n_1-c_k (~nick@replaced-ip)
• 971[09:31:58] <zZ0O0z> believe me, using Xfce u dug ureself into a corner LOL
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• 977[09:35:19] <quantumman> zZ0O0z what would you use?
• 978[09:35:42] <zZ0O0z> KDE ! KDE !! best ever !
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• 980[09:36:06] <blackflow> xfce is a capable desktop environment and quite supported in debian. you are NOT running debian. case closed.
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• 982[09:36:33] *** Quits: dzdx (~dizzdexx@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 983[09:36:43] <zZ0O0z> no one ever understood a need for Xfce
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• 990[09:41:03] <bolt> zZ0O0z: there's no need for a desktop environment argument. xfce is perfectly fine, and some people prefer it. let them.
• 991[09:41:49] * zZ0O0z slaps around a bit with a large trout
• 992[09:42:02] <bolt> missed me.
• 993[09:42:30] * zZ0O0z slaps bolt around a bit with a large trout
• 994[09:42:51] <bolt> dude. if you're not going to help, just stop.
• 995[09:43:09] *** Quits: Rogalian (~cools@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 996[09:43:12] <zZ0O0z> xfce is not perfectly fine. u can do nothing of importance with it . it suxx.
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• 998[09:43:27] <quantumman> Probably go back to Debian - is there a way to quickly do this rather than reformat the disk and reinstall the operating system?
• 999[09:43:57] <zZ0O0z> there is but we dont know that
• 1000[09:44:03] <mutante> there used to be "debtakeover" script but honestly the reinstall might be best
• 1001[09:44:23] <bolt> zZ0O0z: just stop.
• 1002[09:44:35] <zZ0O0z> a reinstall with FAIme is 60 seconds only . disk wiped clean and all
• 1003[09:44:37] <mrig> Do people/bots/trolls often come in here to spam and name drop other distros? Crazy just how the fighting ruling classes will degrade them selves for that which they believe in.
• 1004[09:44:50] <mutante> yea, all the time
• 1005[09:44:54] * zZ0O0z slaps mrig around a bit with a large trout
• 1006[09:45:06] <quantumman> I was thinking of committing kernel to a github branch at least there would be some place this distro code would be open to the public
• 1007[09:45:22] * mrig ignites a bbq for the trout.
• 1008[09:45:28] <quantumman> Kernel or file system etc
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• 1011[09:46:37] * mrig smelling of fish, returned to admiring his large A3+ capable canon paper weight.
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• 1013[09:47:12] <quantumman> the fact that this distro code isn't display in public kinda worries me abit
• 1014[09:47:41] <mutante> printers - worst class of hardware to administer - everybody wants to get out ouf office IT and move up so they dont have to deal with them anymore
• 1015[09:47:43] <blackflow> mrig: plotter?
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• 1017[09:47:47] <zZ0O0z> in voyager ?
• 1018[09:48:13] <quantumman> yeah
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• 1023[09:48:31] <mrig> blackflow A bubble jet, with a curious sized bus or something like that.
• 1024[09:48:36] <zZ0O0z> printers are cool. know about bangladesh treasury SWIFT heist ?
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• 1028[09:48:59] <quantumman> voyager live debian code isn't anywhere on the internet atleast I can find like github if you know what I mean
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• 1030[09:49:04] <mrig> No, what is that?
• 1031[09:49:05] <blackflow> mrig: that's a beast then, I'm sure
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• 1033[09:49:28] <quantumman> zZ0O0z sound dodgy?
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• 1035[09:49:31] <zZ0O0z> quantumman may be backdoored badly ...
• 1036[09:49:32] <blackflow> quantumman: again, voyager != debian. please stop the voyager noise here in #debian, thanks.
• 1037[09:49:33] <mrig> blackflow yes it is a really nice photo quality print, it was anyhow.
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• 1040[09:50:06] <zZ0O0z> well
• 1041[09:50:17] <zZ0O0z> now
• 1042[09:50:29] <zZ0O0z> \O/
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• 1047[09:51:32] <zZ0O0z> dude I'm using a 1998 screen with 1024x768 which was cool back in the '90s lawl
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• 1056[09:57:01] <quantumman> fuck it ill just switch to debian
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• 1066[10:01:18] <zZ0O0z> but dont use xfce
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• 1085[10:11:18] <zZ0O0z> dang I cannot get rid of this screensaver... killer all power* daemons
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• 1088[10:11:33] <zZ0O0z> dang I cannot get rid of this screensaver... I killed all power* daemons , no luck
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• 1092[10:12:36] <blackflow> is that the..... KDE you've been touting?
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• 1527[14:54:28] <rocketmagnet> hi everyone
• 1528[14:54:41] <webby_web> yeah dude
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• 1533[14:55:45] <rocketmagnet> are there pre-build binaries of llvm and libclang for strech ? i tried the ones from replaced-url
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• 1536[14:56:04] <jelly> ,v llvm
• 1537[14:56:05] <judd> Package: llvm on amd64 -- wheezy: 1:3.0-14+nmu2; jessie: 1:3.5-25; stretch: 1:3.8-36; buster: 1:7.0-47; sid: 1:7.0-47
• 1538[14:56:06] <rocketmagnet> how to install the dependencies for llvm and libclang for strech (version 7.0 at least) ?
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• 1540[14:56:30] <jelly> rocketmagnet: did you try doing a backport?
• 1541[14:56:36] <greycat> Didn't we go over this all yesterday?
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• 1543[14:56:59] <greycat> Here, I'll trigger it once again
• 1544[14:57:02] <greycat> !simple sid backport
• 1545[14:57:02] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
• 1546[14:57:13] <jelly> rocketmagnet: there are no debian.org official binaries for llvm 7 or newer for stretch
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• 1549[14:58:47] <NetTerminalGene> which one is more secure? firejailed binary firefox, or not firejailed debian's own firefox esr
• 1550[14:58:54] <rocketmagnet> jelly: how to install the dependencies so i can build them on my own ?
• 1551[14:59:19] <greycat> If you don't want to do it the Debian way, then you just follow upstream's instructions and ask THEM for help.
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• 1558[15:01:42] <rocketmagnet> ok
• 1559[15:01:46] <rocketmagnet> thanks anyway
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• 1569[15:05:40] <blackflow> NetTerminalGene: apparmor'ed debian's firefox esr
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• 1571[15:06:26] <NetTerminalGene> blackflow, the problem is, i heard but i don't know apparmor stuff
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• 1576[15:07:38] <blackflow> NetTerminalGene: it's a valuable tool worth learning.
• 1577[15:08:22] <joepublic> so's a dental drill--essential to modern society, in fact--yet few learn it.
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• 1581[15:10:20] <blackflow> dumb thing to say. especially since it's a megastrawman.
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• 1590[15:12:07] <joepublic> I operate a toothbrush, floss, but above a certain level leave it to the specialized pros. In security, there are likewise measures that users can responsibly take, and measures best applied by security professionals. I think NetTerminalGene is asking a question maybe on the border between the two, and muse on it. Sorry for straw content.
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• 1594[15:14:35] <blackflow> they asked how best secure FF, offered two solutions. I offered a third, one imho best because it doesn't invoke third party software and allows granular tuning of access control. firejail is a big hammer. also namespaces are not security boundaries
• 1595[15:15:03] <blackflow> (and btw one that I myself is dogfooding)
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• 1836[17:46:09] <Greyztar> the browser i need to use says i need to sandbox because im running as root,im stuck with root for a while,is there a simple way of doing this sandboxing?
• 1837[17:46:40] <Greyztar> im on stretch
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• 1841[17:48:19] <ksk> Greyztar: nonono. Why would you ever run a browser, and your Desktop Environment as root!? please do not do that.
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• 1845[17:49:05] <Greyztar> ksk: ok time to transfer all schoolwork then (,")
• 1846[17:49:12] <ksk> Whatever reason you might have - you are most likely doing it wrong.
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• 1848[17:49:27] <ksk> What is your inital problem, that made you belive runnning things as root solves it?
• 1849[17:49:30] <Greyztar> ksk: yeah its dumb just school got the best of me all the work
• 1850[17:49:35] <greycat> Why did you say "im stuck with root for a while"? What are you doing?
• 1851[17:50:13] <Greyztar> im sorry guys,its just i started doing all my work as root,when i relogg user account i cant find all my work,sorry im bit novice
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• 1853[17:50:52] <greycat> Use "su" to become root temporarily in one terminal, cd /root, copy/move all your stuff where it SHOULD be, chown it, exit from su.
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• 1855[17:51:22] <Greyztar> greycat: thank you,i think its time i did it anyway no more root!
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• 1860[17:53:08] <krnlklink> hello, I'm looking for some information on how to start a service that requires a nfs mount to be mounted.
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• 1863[17:54:16] <ksk> krnlklink: talking systemd unit files, you use the AFTER= directive in that service
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• 1867[17:55:21] <greycat> After what, though?
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• 1879[17:56:38] <ksk> after the unit which mounts the nfs share. If that is not a unit right now, you would have to create one.
• 1880[17:56:59] <krnlklink> ksk: do I create a mount in a mount unit? would I not then use the requires= ?
• 1881[17:58:15] <ksk> yeah, that might be even better :) see man systemd.unit for the differences.
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• 1887[17:59:08] <ksk> I would create a unit which mounts the NFS share, but iirc there might also be other systemd things (like a mount-target?) which can do that.
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• 1890[18:00:21] <krnlklink> does it matter if the mount is still in fstab?
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• 1893[18:01:16] <ksk> Yes. You would then have multiple logics which try to mount it - and one of them will always fail.
• 1894[18:01:34] <ksk> (not sure wich comes first, I suspect fstab)
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• 1898[18:02:31] <ksk> also make sure to require network.target in the nfs-mount.service, so it has networking enabled.
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• 1902[18:05:16] <krnlklink> OK, thanks. will play around with that.
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• 1929[18:24:03] <krnlklink> ksk: I was doing a little more digging into this and found a post that states that systemd creates a mount unit for every fstab entry automagically, but that doesn't seem to be the case on my debian 8 instance. Are you familiar with the auto genereated units?
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• 1977[18:54:38] <Eryn_1983_FL> hey peeps
• 1978[18:54:46] <Greyztar> o/
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• 1980[18:54:51] <Eryn_1983_FL> how do i do a DD of my iso to my usb disk?
• 1981[18:55:29] <Greyztar> Eryn_1983_FL: dd if=/pathtoimgfile of=/dev/deviceofchoice
• 1982[18:56:04] *** Quits: seekr (~seekr@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 1983[18:56:13] <Greyztar> Eryn_1983_FL: can find device with using fdisk -l also
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• 1988[18:56:52] <Eryn_1983_FL> yeah
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• 1992[18:59:53] <Eryn_1983_FL> that worked ty
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• 1999[19:01:39] <ksk> krnlklink: na, sorry.
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• 2001[19:02:03] <ksk> totally possible that debian does not use everything systemd offers ;)
• 2002[19:02:13] <Greyztar> Eryn_1983_FL: np glad i could help (,")
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• 2015[19:07:08] <outoftime> How /etc/hostname is used except of PS1 ?
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• 2020[19:08:32] <ksk> outoftime: man 5 hostname
• 2021[19:08:54] <ksk> it, eh, defines the systems hostname.
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• 2030[19:13:04] <outoftime> ksk: So I can change it however I want to make my shell prompt cleaner without any consequences? (if I'll follow recommendation due to naming in man 5 hostname)
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• 2032[19:14:01] <SerajewelKS> i would love an atomic filesystem operation "move 'a' to 'b' and leave behind a symlink 'a' -> 'b'"
• 2033[19:14:09] <ksk> outoftime: the sane thing would to remove the hostname from PS1 if you dont like it being there, but yes.. :D
• 2034[19:14:24] <ksk> SerajewelKS: finddup might be able to do that.
• 2035[19:14:31] <SerajewelKS> ksk: not atomically
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• 2037[19:14:34] <ksk> eh, not sure about atomic thouch.
• 2038[19:14:50] <SerajewelKS> i mean there's "mv a b && ln -s b a"
• 2039[19:14:52] <ksk> also I think, you cannot "move and create symlink" atomicly.
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• 2041[19:15:07] <SerajewelKS> right. i'm saying it would be helpful if there was such an operation.
• 2042[19:15:09] <ksk> like, if you moved the file, there is no symlink yet.
• 2043[19:15:14] <SerajewelKS> exactly
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• 2045[19:15:20] <neilthereildeil> how can i stop KDM on Debian 9.7?
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• 2047[19:15:39] <SerajewelKS> ksk: i know that doesn't exist today. i'm saying it would be cool if it did exist. :)
• 2048[19:15:44] <ksk> kk :)
• 2049[19:15:48] <SerajewelKS> it would make some directory housekeeping much easier
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• 2051[19:16:02] <ksk> sounds a little bit like copy-on-write, if we leave out the "sym" part? ;)
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• 2056[19:16:15] <SerajewelKS> e.g. how else could i rename a webroot without any window where the site returns 404
• 2057[19:16:29] <outoftime> SerajewelKS: make your own shell script 'mv $1 $2 && ln -s $2 $1' (:
• 2058[19:16:37] <SerajewelKS> outoftime: again, this is not an atomic operation
• 2059[19:16:44] <SerajewelKS> there is a window of time where the old name does not exist
• 2060[19:17:02] <ksk> SerajewelKS: bind-mounting maybe? :D
• 2061[19:17:07] <outoftime> SerajewelKS: then check exit codes of mv before ln
• 2062[19:17:22] <SerajewelKS> outoftime: that's what && does. and i don't think you understand what i mean by "atomic."
• 2063[19:17:25] <MACscr> so i created a user for sftp access and for php-fpm to run as. I changed the home directory to /var/replaced-url
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• 2065[19:17:35] <SerajewelKS> ksk: runs into the same problem as a symlink
• 2066[19:17:42] <MACscr> i still want the user to be able to get to /var/replaced-url
• 2067[19:17:47] <ksk> SerajewelKS: I think the underlying probleme here is, that two operations cannot be atomic by definition
• 2068[19:18:03] <SerajewelKS> ksk: sure they can
• 2069[19:18:12] <outoftime> SerajewelKS: you are right. Describe original problem pls.
• 2070[19:18:22] <SerajewelKS> ksk: conceptually, all that means is "other stuff only sees the original or the final state"
• 2071[19:19:02] <SerajewelKS> ksk: e.g. consider database transactions. they combine multiple discrete operations into an atomic operation from the perspective of an observer.
• 2072[19:19:16] <ksk> Yeah you are right.
• 2073[19:19:22] <ksk> (inb4: use database as file backend)
• 2074[19:19:27] <SerajewelKS> outoftime: so for example, i want to rename a webroot directory from "foo.example.com" to "bar.example.com"
• 2075[19:19:43] <SerajewelKS> without any window where the filesystem name foo.example.com doesn't exist
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• 2079[19:20:21] <SerajewelKS> so the flow would be: move foo->bar. leave symlink foo pointing at bar. reconfigure nginx to use bar instead. remove foo.
• 2080[19:20:37] <SerajewelKS> between the first two steps, the site would return 404 errors
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• 2082[19:21:24] <outoftime> SerajewelKS: so you need this operation to be atomic for nginx
• 2083[19:21:40] <ksk> rsync old-http-folder to a backup location. point webserver to backup location. reload webserver (= no clients lost). do stuff with old-http-folder. point webserver to renamed-old-folder. reload webserver
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• 2086[19:22:12] <SerajewelKS> ksk: sure that works assuming the application doesn't write inside of its webroot
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• 2088[19:22:42] <SerajewelKS> waaaaait
• 2089[19:22:44] <SerajewelKS> i think i got it
• 2090[19:22:47] <ksk> also, most customers can survie a webserver restart ;)
• 2091[19:23:06] <SerajewelKS> hmm. nope.
• 2092[19:23:20] <SerajewelKS> yeah. i mean the window where it's returning 404s is very small.
• 2093[19:23:31] <ksk> (as in SLAs state 99,9%, you restarting the webserver is like 5 seconds)
• 2094[19:23:45] <MACscr> hmm, the user doesnt seem to have a .bashrc file in its /var/replaced-url
• 2095[19:23:49] <ksk> if the customer needs even more HA, he should have been running a cluster in the first place :P
• 2096[19:23:49] <SerajewelKS> i mean the mv && ln command is probably sub-ms
• 2097[19:24:02] <SerajewelKS> i'm mostly talking theoretical here
• 2098[19:24:06] <ksk> kk.
• 2099[19:24:16] <outoftime> SerajewelKS: do you have static location ?
• 2100[19:24:27] <SerajewelKS> what do you mean?
• 2101[19:24:38] <outoftime> SerajewelKS: in nginx config for server
• 2102[19:24:46] <SerajewelKS> static as opposed to...
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• 2104[19:25:25] <outoftime> SerajewelKS: to web server for some kind of apps.. e.g. python and nginx Unit
• 2105[19:25:43] <SerajewelKS> still not following. you mean a reverse proxy?
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• 2107[19:26:05] <ksk> just serving static files vs having php foo (or anything else) included.
• 2108[19:26:16] <outoftime> yes
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• 2110[19:26:29] <SerajewelKS> let's assume both
• 2111[19:26:40] <Uncle_Joe_St> anyone tried FAIme . org ?
• 2112[19:27:13] <outoftime> I do not know nginx so much, RTM (: Speak to #nginx
• 2113[19:27:49] <dropkick500> What do you all think the best alternative to Nautilus is?
• 2114[19:27:50] <SerajewelKS> this isn't really an nginx thing as much as a filesystem thing
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• 2117[19:28:32] <outoftime> SerajewelKS: I can be wrong, but I have a feeling that this had to be solved with nginx
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• 2120[19:28:56] <Uncle_Joe_St> Dolphin = Nautilus++
• 2121[19:29:04] <SerajewelKS> i'm not sure i agree. (i'm quite experienced with nginx, btw.)
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• 2124[19:29:37] <SerajewelKS> but it's a theoretical question anyway
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• 2127[19:29:45] <SerajewelKS> practically we can take the <10ms downtime :)
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• 2130[19:30:52] <dropkick500> Uncle_Joe_St: Thanks for referring me to Dolphin. Taking a look right now
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• 2143[19:37:25] <tradar> SerajewelKS: you could create first a hard link, then a system link (with a random name), and then replace either of the hard-links with the system link (renaming/moving the syslink file)
• 2144[19:38:15] <greycat> you mean symlink?
• 2145[19:38:27] <greycat> it stands for "symbolic link"
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• 2147[19:40:05] <tradar> greycat: yes
• 2148[19:40:34] * greycat scrolls up ... oh, you're talking about a *directory*. No, you can't make a hardlink to a directory.
• 2149[19:40:51] <greycat> Stop the web server, move the directory, create the symlink, start the web server.
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• 2151[19:41:55] <greycat> If there's a way to tell the web server "Hey, you can accept requests, but don't answer them immediately; stall until I say otherwise", then do that instead.
• 2152[19:41:59] <tradar> i am talking about regular files
• 2153[19:42:15] <greycat> The question was not about regular files, though.
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• 2158[19:43:37] <SerajewelKS> greycat: the "mv && ln -s" solution has less downtime than stopping the web server. i'm just curious if it can be eliminated altogether.
• 2159[19:44:04] <SerajewelKS> but the idea of holding requests is an interesting one
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• 2161[19:44:24] <greycat> It's a question of whether you want "down time that gives connection refused" or "down time that gives 404". Which one's worse for you?
• 2162[19:44:28] <SerajewelKS> with a load-balancing setup nginx can do that, i think... if all of the upstream servers are down you can tell it to hold onto requests.
• 2163[19:44:40] <greycat> Or, ask #nginx if you can tell the web server to stall requests.
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• 2167[19:46:50] <SerajewelKS> i just thought "move directory and leave behind symlink" might be a useful atomic filesystem primitive
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• 2169[19:47:50] <greycat> it's not one I've ever seen
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• 2171[19:47:57] <SerajewelKS> yeah, me either
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• 2175[19:49:24] <SerajewelKS> if try_files took absolute paths then that could actually be one way to do that
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• 2177[19:49:42] <SerajewelKS> reconfigure nginx to try the new webroot first if it exists, otherwise the old. then just mv the directory.
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• 2247[20:23:32] <DonK_KijotE> Hi
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• 2249[20:24:18] <somiaj> Hello, do you have a question about debian, if so just ask.
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• 2256[20:27:07] <diginet> I know that often root users are configured such that there's no password for the root account, meaning you can't ever `su - root`, or even ever log into that account period. Is there a way to do the same for any user?
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• 2258[20:27:34] <diginet> what I want is a way such that you can only log in to a user via SSH key, and that's it
• 2259[20:27:41] <somiaj> Yes, you can lock accounts to make it so you can't login with a password.
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• 2261[20:28:07] <greycat> Create the user, then edit /etc/passwd and put "*" or something similar in the encrypted password field.
• 2262[20:28:09] <somiaj> Well you will need to 1) configure ssh to only accept key access, and 2) lock regular login passwords.
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• 2264[20:28:32] <somiaj> you can also use passwd -l option (man passwd)
• 2265[20:28:48] <somiaj> and the manpage says it adds a '!' not a '*'
• 2266[20:29:03] <jelly> both work.
• 2267[20:29:04] <diginet> gotcha, thanks!
• 2268[20:29:13] <greycat> Anything other than '' or 'x' or a valid hashed password will have the effect of locking it.
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• 2270[20:29:36] <somiaj> ahh, didn't realize that, I was just reading the manpage.
• 2271[20:29:49] <somiaj> well passwd manpage, the /etc/passwd manpage would probably give more etails
• 2272[20:30:04] <greycat> Sadly not a *lot* more, but yes, that's where I was reading.
• 2273[20:30:08] <greycat> passwd(5)
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• 2275[20:30:25] <somiaj> ahh man 5 passwd, there is the right man page.
• 2276[20:30:42] <jelly> shirley there's a shadow(5) as well!
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• 2283[20:31:47] * jelly wonders why glibc crypt() still does not do industry standard PBKDF2 or similar
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• 2288[20:35:09] <diginet> looking at /etc/passwd, I see nothing that looks like a hashed password on any of the lines
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• 2294[20:35:52] <GNU\colossus> that's kept in /etc/shadow
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• 2297[20:36:12] <diginet> ahhhhh
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• 2299[20:36:18] <jelly> a relatively recent analysis. replaced-url
• 2300[20:36:21] <GNU\colossus> if your system uses "vanilla" local accounts
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• 2304[20:37:01] <somiaj> diginet: passwd -l username will also work and modify the correct files for you.
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• 2308[20:37:13] <diginet> somiaj: ok cool
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• 2312[20:39:00] <somiaj> It is a mater of taste if you want to use passwd to modify the files or edit them yourself (same for say adduser/useradd, etc)
• 2313[20:39:12] <diginet> can root always su to any user?
• 2314[20:39:17] <somiaj> yes
• 2315[20:39:22] <diginet> okay, that's what I thought
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• 2346[21:00:14] <hydrajump> I converted a new debian 9 install to use systemd-networkd instead of ifupdown and it works great. I just find it odd that all the interfaces have the same identical MAC address.
• 2347[21:00:41] <hydrajump> Here's how I setup systemd-networkd and some output of `ip a` replaced-url
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• 2350[21:01:18] <hydrajump> Maybe this is a systemd-networkd thing, but as I'm new to it I just want to check I've configured something wrong ;)
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• 2355[21:03:01] <somiaj> I don't think many here use networkd (we like our interfaces file, or at least I do). You may find #systemd a bit more helpful an giving you info on how networkd is working and why it is different.
• 2356[21:03:04] <greycat> You overrode the MACAddress= in a [Link] section.
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• 2358[21:03:31] <somiaj> ahh yea, over looked that, good eye.
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• 2360[21:03:53] <greycat> I've never seen this stuff before, so I googled "systemd-networkd mac address" and got an arch wiki page and started reading it
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• 2362[21:04:37] <greycat> Apparently they decide to be Clever, so they have two different MACAddress= directives. If you use one in [Match] it's different from if you use one in [Link].
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• 2365[21:06:05] <hydrajump> greycat: you're correct that I override the mac address for the usb-ethernet adapter, but AFAIK it's only supposed to do that for the interface that has the Name=enxXXXXXXX which is the name of the adapter
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• 2409[21:26:54] <somiaj> hydrajump: might be your config file isn't matching correctly, I would try #systemd or maybe look at the arch wiki page greycat found (and you could find by google)
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• 2412[21:29:46] <hydrajump> somiaj: that's the page that helped me set it up in the first place ;)
• 2413[21:30:18] <hydrajump> I've asked on #systemd so I won't bug about it here
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• 2418[21:32:07] <greycat> I am very much NOT a fan of the overloading of MACAddress= with two completely different meanings in two different sections, by the way.
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• 2425[21:36:41] <blackflow> btw, how does one bind a netname to MAC when using ifupdown? like always, via udev (so not relevant for ifupdown per se)?
• 2426[21:38:02] <somiaj> yes, if you don't want to use systemd's predectibale interface names, you can write a udev rule to assoicate a macaddress with a specific interface name.
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• 2428[21:38:11] <somiaj> There is also a systemd specific way to do this too, but I'd have to look that up.
• 2429[21:38:17] <blackflow> those names are everything BUT predictable
• 2430[21:38:52] <somiaj> they are based of the location in the machine, which is predictable if you know the location (pci slot), but I agree they will take a bit to learn how to predect.
• 2431[21:38:58] <blackflow> well I know how it's used to be done, udev rules. I've been using networkd way for quite some time nowbecause it's oh so convenient
• 2432[21:39:12] <jelly> somiaj: and if you pci config never changes.
• 2433[21:39:17] <blackflow> was wondering if ifupdown had a stanza, or it's still in the domain of udev
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• 2436[21:39:38] <somiaj> there is a systemd way to force your own name that is using a unit file vs a udev rule that you could look up how to do as an alternative, but the udev rules still work just fine.
• 2437[21:39:47] <blackflow> somiaj: it's not predictable. you don't know in advance which name it will be. you can use udevadm to try and predict, but it's not guaranteed.
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• 2440[21:41:14] <blackflow> somiaj: my problem is that we rent our servers, and when we get a new one, I have to either play the predict the NIC name after reboot (debootstraped root on ZFS on LUKS installations) game, or use good ol' ethX with MAC binding in case of multiple NICs
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• 2443[21:41:57] <hydrajump> somiaj: using .link file
• 2444[21:42:18] <somiaj> yea, I think aspects of systemd kinda remind me of java, in theory there are good things about it, in practice not so much...:/
• 2445[21:42:38] <somiaj> blackflow: also note hydrajump comment, you could learn a systemd .link unit file as an alteranative to a udev rule to force set names.
• 2446[21:42:42] <blackflow> and if you try to predict with udevadm it totally is NOT as documented. The policy is kernel database onboard slot path, in that order, right? and yet it's not. db and onboard tend to be skipped
• 2447[21:42:45] <somiaj> I just didn't reacall wha tfile it was.
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• 2450[21:43:29] <blackflow> that's what I do now but with a matching .network
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• 2452[21:43:43] <blackflow> so essentially networkd -- can the .link be used without networkd?
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• 2470[21:51:27] <somiaj> hmm, not sure, maybe networkd is needed to use the systemd .link files.
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• 2480[21:56:23] <blackflow> I think it is, yes. I'll have to run some tests. Ideally I'd like to revert to ifupdown and drop networkd.
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• 2628[23:01:25] <JordiGH> I'm trying to do some data recovery.
• 2629[23:01:35] <JordiGH> I've got LVM setup inside /dev/sda2
• 2630[23:01:42] <JordiGH> And an encrypted LUKS at /dev/sda5
• 2631[23:01:58] <JordiGH> I just tried `dd if=/dev/sda5 of=image`
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• 2633[23:02:14] <JordiGH> And I can `cryptsetup open image image` just fine.
• 2634[23:02:32] <JordiGH> But when I try `mount /dev/mapper/image /mnt` I get `mount: unknown filesystem type 'LVM2_member'`
• 2635[23:02:47] <JordiGH> What did I do wrong?
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• 2641[23:04:01] <ksk> the error indicates, that the thing you are tring to mount does not contain a valid filesystem, but is rather part of LVM
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• 2643[23:04:16] <ksk> like, a logical volume?
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• 2648[23:05:10] <JordiGH> I guess, so what should I have imaged instead?
• 2649[23:05:23] <JordiGH> I want to keep the encryption when imaging.
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• 2653[23:05:51] <JordiGH> I can create the mapper for /dev/sda5 and then image the mapper, but then I'd be getting an unencrypted image, right?
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• 2659[23:07:26] <JordiGH> Oh gah.
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• 2661[23:07:41] <JordiGH> I should have imaged the VGM thing.
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• 2683[23:16:05] <ksk> sorry, too late right now to map my hard around how you put that up ;) I suggest writing the layers on a paper and thinking about it, before you proceed ;)
• 2684[23:16:20] <ksk> *to wrap my head. and to type :>
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• 2689[23:20:53] <JordiGH> Sure, thanks.
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• 2709[23:30:05] <LikWidChz> Basic question about a host name on a network... seems like ive changed it but it still remains its old host name....-10 points for me, any ideas?
• 2710[23:30:20] *** Quits: meLon (~meLon@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
• 2711[23:32:04] <ksk> LikWidChz: you are aware of the difference of hostnames, and domain names resolved via DNS?
• 2712[23:32:32] *** Quits: glongo (uid17594@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
• 2713[23:32:57] <LikWidChz> well probably not at this point. I edited the hosts file with the single entry, and I saw that samba also had an entry but that might be false hopes editing that. My shell reflects the correct name.
• 2714[23:32:59] <ksk> LikWidChz: to change hostname (from memory): edit /etc/hostname, edit /etc/hosts, run service hostname restart
• 2715[23:33:06] <ksk> !tell LikWidChz about hostname
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• 2717[23:33:43] <LikWidChz> that didn't do anything fyi.
• 2718[23:33:57] <LikWidChz> I lied its a pm.
• 2719[23:33:58] <ksk> what does hostname -f say?
• 2720[23:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1525
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• 2722[23:34:12] <ksk> oh, that was related to the bot. nvm :)
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• 2724[23:34:35] <ksk> dpkg is a bit slow today :P
• 2725[23:34:35] <dpkg> i don't know, ksk
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• 2727[23:34:44] <LikWidChz> thanks, it says "GimpNas1"
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• 2729[23:35:12] <LikWidChz> on my network as a samba share it says gimpnas, I changed the name and added a number.
• 2730[23:35:41] <LikWidChz> also that url how to change hostname, says im not allowed to access this via the html link
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• 2732[23:36:46] <ksk> replaced-url
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• 2735[23:37:06] <LikWidChz> it says forbidden
• 2736[23:37:23] <LikWidChz> I wonder if debian is blocking my vpn nonsense.
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• 2738[23:38:05] <ksk> might be, dunno.
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• 2740[23:38:46] <LikWidChz> yeah it is.
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• 2747[23:41:35] <LikWidChz> it seems like there is only one thing you need to do to set hostname right? /etc/hostname?
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• 2751[23:42:41] <ksk> nope, as I said, /etc/hostname also needs changing.
• 2752[23:43:01] <milkt> hostnamectl set-hostname i guess
• 2753[23:43:04] <shibboleth> is expanding a luks partition really as simple as resizing it with say gparted? are not the crypto headers stored in specific places?
• 2754[23:43:04] <ksk> because there should be a line "10.0.0.1 hostname.with.tld hostname"
• 2755[23:43:05] <LikWidChz> ... wasnt that what I said? oh okay
• 2756[23:43:37] <LikWidChz> so when i run that hostnamectl command I see that the correct hostname is set, gimpnas1
• 2757[23:43:59] <milkt> you might also need to modify /etc/hosts
• 2758[23:44:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1532
• 2759[23:44:21] <LikWidChz> I did that also, I have 127.0.0.1 GimpNas1 listed
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• 2763[23:47:40] <LikWidChz> its weird :) thats about all I got.
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• 2767[23:49:04] <ksk> do you see any difference between the line you stated containing an IP-address, and mine?!
• 2768[23:49:04] *** Quits: Nsyo_ (~Nsyo@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2769[23:49:22] <ksk> (hint: mine has 3 elements)
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• 2771[23:49:42] <LikWidChz> the /etc/hosts file?
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• 2781[23:59:16] <LikWidChz> lol my dns server is caching the old gd name
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• 2784[23:59:31] <zegil> Does anyone know how I can disable the terminal beep on boot? The only way I know of so far is to use "modprobe -r pcspkr"
• 2785[23:59:41] <LikWidChz> a peice of tape.
• 2786[23:59:49] <zegil> god dammit
• 2787[23:59:53] *** Quits: Joe_from_next_do (d97b1ad3@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 2788[23:59:56] <LikWidChz> insted of BEEEP it will be beep.
• 2789[23:59:57] <zegil> how did I never think of that
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