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• 9[00:11:29] <Stx> XLS202: alright, thats good. Well, it shouldnt. Is the switch reporting any dropped packages or other errors during the lag? These sort of things are always hard to troubleshoot.
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• 22[00:28:49] <XLS202> Stx: also my PC has about 37k dropped packets in the last 30 days. But it doesen increase while testing the connection. The rest of the ports have all way under 100 dropped packets.
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• 24[00:31:23] <SpeakerToMeat> Is there any way to find all packages installed from a repository not longer listed in /etc/apt/sources.list.d ?
• 25[00:32:09] <SpeakerToMeat> The repo doesn't seem to be listed in /var/lib/apt/lists/
• 26[00:32:18] <tomreyn> SpeakerToMeat: a *specific* repository? not if you ran apt(-get) update since
• 27[00:32:25] <SpeakerToMeat> yet, apt still thinks it wants to get packages from it, and aptitude shows versions from this repo...
• 28[00:32:37] <SpeakerToMeat> sigh
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• 30[00:34:19] <tomreyn> what is it you're trying to achieve?
• 31[00:35:24] <SpeakerToMeat> I want to compile my own version of ffmpeg, and getting dev packages, I want to clean all the remaining pieces of deb-multimedia from my system
• 32[00:36:16] <tomreyn> apt-forktracer will list foreign packages
• 33[00:36:27] <SpeakerToMeat> Ah thanks
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• 35[00:36:54] <tomreyn> an easier way to do so is apt list --installed | grep ',local\]$'
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• 37[00:43:27] <SpeakerToMeat> Thanks
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• 82[01:42:14] <Kraus> Hi! I'm hoping this is the right place to ask a question, but I'm curious about something regarding the PipeWire packaging for Debian and the configuration instructions at replaced-url
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• 84[01:45:36] <ratrace> !ask
• 85[01:45:36] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on replaced-url
• 86[01:46:11] <Kraus> Right, I'm just trying to format my questions in my head. :)
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• 88[01:47:02] <Kraus> I guess the first thing I am curious about is the wording here: "Users may also be interested in PipeWire's capacity to be a drop-in substitute for existing Linux audio solutions, including PulseAudio and JACK." ... I thought that's what PipeWire's primary focus was for? To replace Pulse and JACK into one single server.
• 89[01:47:44] <Kraus> The reason I'm curious about this is because the way it's been packaged with Debian, and the configuration required every single system reboot is kinda weird.
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• 92[01:48:35] <ratrace> I don't think anyone really knows what the purpose of pipewire was
• 93[01:48:37] <Kraus> Symlinks need to be made every reboot, and systemctl --user --now disable pulseaudio.service pulseaudio.socket \ systemctl --user --now disable pulseaudio.service pulseaudio.socket need to be ran every reboot.
• 94[01:49:10] <Kraus> "PipeWire is a project that aims to greatly improve handling of audio and video under Linux."
• 95[01:49:34] <Kraus> That's what PipeWire's stated purpose is on its front page, so I would have to take them at their word. :)
• 96[01:49:45] <ratrace> and for some reason they couldn't do that with pulseaudio...
• 97[01:50:05] <ratrace> FOSS ... Forking Open Source
• 98[01:50:06] <Unit193> Huh? No, you don't need to re-create symlinks every boot for pipewire to work. Or I at least don't have to.
• 99[01:50:43] <Kraus> Unit193: Yes, every reboot, on Ubuntu and Xubuntu 21.04. When I reboot, pulseaudio becomes pactl's server again.
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• 101[01:51:04] <Unit193> Kraus: You need to *disable* pulseaudio.
• 102[01:51:07] <Kraus> I do.
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• 104[01:51:19] <Kraus> Then on reboot, it's enabled again.
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• 106[01:52:00] <Unit193> No, I mean systemctl --user disable pulseaudio.service pulseaudio.socket && systemctl --user mask pulseaudio.service pulseaudio.socket
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• 109[01:53:02] <Kraus> I should point out that on the instructions it says "If this doesn't work, you may need to "mask" the PulseAudio service by running" ... It does work, but something is causing it to revert on reboot. I'll try masking it and reboot and see what happens.
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• 111[01:54:43] <oerheks> +1 for mask
• 112[01:55:02] <Kraus> Alright, looks like masking is absolutely necessary. It worked.
• 113[01:55:09] <Kraus> Might want to take "may" out of there :)
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• 127[02:19:51] <Kraus> Hey real quick while I"m here.. silly question.. what does touch /etc/pipewire/media-session.d/with-pulseaudio do exactly? man touch is saying something about "change file timestamps" but that doesn't seem right...
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• 131[02:28:52] <oxek> that's exactly what it does though
• 132[02:29:15] <oxek> or if the file does not exist, it creates that file
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• 136[02:40:33] <phogg> Kraus: quoting the man page: "A FILE argument that does not exist is created empty, unless -c or -h is supplied"
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• 154[03:07:01] <ryouma> s/that/whose file/
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• 159[03:14:31] <wintersky> ok so mumble intercepts every keystroke i make
• 160[03:14:55] <wintersky> 3:03:17 AM is there a way for a malicious server to read that data?
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• 162[03:15:40] <sney> I would imagine that's just for push-to-talk and stays local. you may want to ask in #mumble though.
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• 284[06:39:38] <frankfurter> Deutschland über alles! Heil Führer Merkel!
• 285[06:40:16] <frankfurter> Heil Deutschland! Heil Merkel! SIEG HEIL! SIEG HEIL!!!
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• 287[06:50:43] <frankfurter> Es ist Zeit, in Polen einzudringen
• 288[06:50:46] <frankfurter> Sie verursachen den Klimawandel
• 289[06:50:48] <frankfurter> Sie müssen zerstört werden. Führer Merkel hat es befohlen.
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• 293[06:59:24] <awal1> !Deutsch
• 294[06:59:24] <dpkg> Deutschsprachige Hilfe bekommt ihr in #debian.de (auf irc.oftc.net, irc.freenode.net oder irc.belwue.de) - debian-user-german@lists.debian.org
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• 300[07:06:31] <sayola> awal1: dont bother. its spam.
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• 302[07:06:52] <awal1> sayola, ok
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• 318[07:35:07] <wikipedofile> hello
• 319[07:36:04] <wintersky> change your nick
• 320[07:36:19] <wikipedofile> i don't respond to threats
• 321[07:36:51] <wikipedofile> what's wrong with my flat-file port of wikimedia
• 322[07:37:06] <wintersky> suffer
• 323[07:37:22] <wikipedofile> apt-get go away
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• 337[08:11:53] <frankfurter> thats actually a clever nick. I might have to steal that
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• 339[08:12:22] <wikipedofile> damn its registered
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• 341[08:12:33] * wintersky shrugs
• 342[08:12:59] <ikillpedofiles> shit. I'm now banned from ##bdsmcommunity
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• 558[14:19:05] <echoSMILE> The package "bpytop" was removed from repository?
• 559[14:19:55] <echoSMILE> only at unstable.
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• 562[14:26:03] <ratrace> ,v bpytop
• 563[14:26:04] <judd> Package: bpytop on amd64 -- buster-backports: 1.0.50-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 1.0.61-1; sid: 1.0.61-1
• 564[14:26:16] <ratrace> echoSMILE: it's available for stable (via backports), bullseye and sid.
• 565[14:27:08] <echoSMILE> I am antivaxx, only native stuff :D
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• 567[14:27:24] <ratrace> then you'll have to wait for bullseye to release.
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• 612[15:05:46] <jelly-home> echoSMILE, that usually means it's new and hasn't entered other repos
• 613[15:05:48] <jelly-home> ,v bpytop
• 614[15:05:49] <judd> Package: bpytop on amd64 -- buster-backports: 1.0.50-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 1.0.61-1; sid: 1.0.61-1
• 615[15:05:51] <jelly-home> judd, ping
• 616[15:05:52] <judd> pong
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• 708[17:00:22] <APXX> Yo I just heard debian 11 had a RC1 release. Does that mean the true stable release is just around the corner?
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• 710[17:00:47] <TheBigK> hell yeah... im back... raspi reinstalled with debian bullseye... and my first glance is... i love it.
• 711[17:00:47] <petn-randall> APXX: It's getting closer, yes.
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• 714[17:01:15] <TheBigK> APXX: the last I heared is Debian 11 is coming middle of the year
• 715[17:01:17] <ratrace> APXX: yes, for various definition of the corner
• 716[17:01:22] <APXX> Slackware 15 AND debian 11 in the same year? 2021 is turning out great for GNU/Linux.
• 717[17:02:25] <APXX> I've always wondered, if debian around out of names from toy story to use, what would the project do?
• 718[17:02:33] <APXX> *ran out
• 719[17:02:38] <McErroneous> Hi, how do i stop "apt-get install" from asking... "After this operation xxx additional diskspace will be used, Do you want to continue" by configuring "apt.conf" ....
• 720[17:02:41] <oxek> APXX: they are not going to run out
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• 722[17:02:58] <oxek> they have enough to last 100 years at the current rate of releases
• 723[17:03:04] <petn-randall> APXX: We'd start making sequels ourselves.
• 724[17:03:26] <ratrace> or we switch to The Kardashians
• 725[17:03:38] <APXX> I don't think any of sid's toys have been used yet, so there are those.
• 726[17:04:56] <TheBigK> man this is great. why didnt i use debian in first place... im an idiot
• 727[17:05:26] <APXX> Debian/Devuan (literally debian with sys-v init) are both great distros.
• 728[17:05:29] <APXX> just works
• 729[17:06:00] <jelly> APXX, it's the _installer code_ release candidate, not the distribution release candidate
• 730[17:06:38] <APXX> Oh. Thanks for the clarification jelly.
• 731[17:06:39] <petn-randall> Also this ^
• 732[17:06:39] <ratrace> there's sys-v in Debian too, just not default
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• 735[17:07:27] <jelly> devuan makes a number of intrusive changes and is a proper distro of its own
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• 737[17:08:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1040
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• 739[17:08:10] <jelly> they try very hard to excise every systemd component, it's not just init
• 740[17:08:16] <APXX> Is there a chance of sys-v init never again being able to work with debian? Like say the distro makes too many changes to make sys-v init work.
• 741[17:08:41] <jelly> that needs to be taken care of on a per-service basis
• 742[17:09:24] <ratrace> sysv-sucks. why bother. there's much better alternatives to systemd, that might even shine in teh future.
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• 744[17:10:01] <APXX> Such as ratrace?
• 745[17:10:18] <jelly> ,i orphan-sysvinit-scripts --release bullseye
• 746[17:10:20] <judd> Package orphan-sysvinit-scripts (admin, optional) in bullseye/amd64: Orphaned System-V-like init scripts. Version: 0.07; Size: 12.3k; Installed: 55k
• 747[17:10:23] <ratrace> s6, nosh, and then there's runit and openrc that use sysv's /sbin/init only, but that's easily replaceable
• 748[17:10:41] <jelly> ^ for init scripts that have been completely removed by the maintainers
• 749[17:11:40] <TheBigK> is there an easy way to get those vcgencmd cli tools in debian ? or should i actually compile them
• 750[17:12:10] <APXX> Is openrc really better than sys-v?
• 751[17:12:26] <ratrace> yes, it has process manager and parallel startup
• 752[17:13:04] <ratrace> (and cgroup support, iirc)
• 753[17:13:06] <TheBigK> i had some trouble with systemd at the beginning. but i started to like it...
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• 755[17:13:30] <ratrace> TheBigK: systemd is currently the best we have, buggy/crappy implementation aside.
• 756[17:13:43] <ratrace> best, in terms of supported features
• 757[17:13:44] <APXX> I'm not someone who thinks systemd is literally satan incarnate, but a history of drive bricking bugs leads me to want a better init.
• 758[17:14:07] <ratrace> APXX: ext4 has those too
• 759[17:14:15] <ratrace> some even in very recent history
• 760[17:14:27] <TheBigK> ratrace: yeah i get the critics ... i rly get it... especially when the dev of systemd can be a little bit of a pain... but yeah... the advantages outweight the disadvantages in my opinion
• 761[17:14:40] <TheBigK> and im glad that debian made the switch even they lost some ppl on the way
• 762[17:14:52] <APXX> If I switch to openrc, what happens to systemd on my system? Does it do literally nothing?
• 763[17:15:16] <ratrace> APXX: it's not even installed, except libsystemd0 which is a must have API interface something something dependency
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• 766[17:15:44] <APXX> You're saying if I install openrc debian will automatically remove systemd?
• 767[17:15:52] <ratrace> they're mutually exclusive afaik
• 768[17:15:57] <jelly> !tias
• 769[17:15:57] <dpkg> TIAS is "Try It And See".
• 770[17:16:15] <ratrace> hrm... they aren't... but you can uninstall systemd later
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• 772[17:17:33] <jelly> and for some reason openrc pulls insserv back in
• 773[17:18:04] <ratrace> and for another reason, sysvinit-core is not recommended or hard-dep
• 774[17:19:25] <ratrace> systemd can actually coexist with otehr inits. question is only WHO is the /sbin/init PID 1 at any given boot. with systemd, it supports converting /etc/init.d/ into systemd units, on the fly via sysv generators. which is good for transitioning away
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• 776[17:20:46] <ratrace> I wonder if Devuan could've been just a PureBlend, instead of a derivative
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• 785[17:28:40] <McErroneous> Hi, how do i stop "apt-get install" from asking... "After this operation xxx additional diskspace will be used, Do you want to continue ?" , other than using an option-switch like -y...?
• 786[17:29:20] <jelly> what's wrong with using -y ?
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• 789[17:32:13] <ratrace> McErroneous: declare DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive env var if you want noninteractive apt(-get)
• 790[17:37:16] <McErroneous> ratrace: thank you..
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• 799[17:42:54] <TheBigK> does anyone use debian on his raspi ? if so .. did u install vcgencmd? did u compile it?
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• 803[17:46:38] <TheBigK> openvpn is working ... but the routes it should recieve dont work: replaced-url
• 804[17:46:40] <TheBigK> any hints?
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• 806[17:51:31] <McErroneous> ratrace: declare DEBIAN_FRONTEND=noninteractive , doesnt work..., tried additional export. maybe i have to log out and login ?
• 807[17:52:17] <McErroneous> or maybe i have to put it in specific file ?
• 808[17:52:20] <TheBigK> isnt noninterface not only for config files and ncurses and stuff and u still need -y ?
• 809[17:52:28] <TheBigK> noninteractive
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• 812[17:54:35] <McErroneous> would like to configure apt.conf.., did a APT::GET::AllowUnauthorizised...
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• 831[18:15:13] <TheBigK> McErroneous: I believe u can do that also in runtime. I would not recommend deactivating that in general
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• 834[18:17:44] <TheBigK> i have now an idea why that issue in openvpn occurs. weirdly i came across that with a manjaro client... and now it seems to be there in bullseye... weirdly... the issue is that it tries ip route add 192.168.20.0/24 via 10.16.13.1 ... and the error which returns nexthop is invalid gateway... without the gateway it works... but i dont know why it works in debian 10 but not in 11
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• 837[18:18:21] <TheBigK> i worked around that last time by doing manual scripting instead of receiving the routes... but i would like to attack that more cleanly... any idea ?
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• 846[18:26:29] <jelly> TheBigK, is 10.16.13.1 accessible on an existinf local interface?
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• 862[18:53:43] <TheBigK> i can ping it, yes
• 863[18:54:04] <TheBigK> or u mean an a differnet interface, no
• 864[18:54:08] <TheBigK> *on
• 865[18:54:26] <TheBigK> im doing a dist-upgrade on a VM right now for funsy... lets see if i can reproduce that
• 866[18:54:53] <TheBigK> i would assume its related to the kernel... but to be sure... i wanna see how its going on x86
• 867[18:55:19] <ndorf> whoops. turns out the --please-destroy-my-drive flag to hdparm is not actually a joke
• 868[18:55:31] <TheBigK> ndorf: hahahahaha
• 869[18:55:33] <oxek> why would you think it would be
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• 871[18:55:46] <ndorf> i'm an optimist?
• 872[18:55:51] <TheBigK> hahahahahahaha
• 873[18:56:09] <TheBigK> thanks for making my day
• 874[18:56:14] <ndorf> i just did --set-sector-size, to a drive that advertised the size i requested as supported
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• 876[18:56:40] <TheBigK> is the disk broken now or what
• 877[18:56:44] <TheBigK> or just data gone
• 878[18:56:54] <ndorf> it gets detected, even with the correct size, but doesn't respond to any commands or I/O
• 879[18:56:59] <ndorf> the disk was brand new, so no data
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• 881[18:57:10] <ndorf> i think i'm going to try to RMA it
• 882[18:57:20] <ndorf> it did advertise the new size like i said :)
• 883[18:57:25] <TheBigK> ndorf: should be working i would assume
• 884[18:57:45] <ndorf> that would be nice, it definitely doesn't work though
• 885[18:58:04] <ndorf> hdparm -I times out, dd bs=1 fails to read a single byte, and so on.
• 886[18:58:32] <TheBigK> i would have assumed that the firmware in the drive would prevent shit from happening
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• 888[18:59:00] <oxek> firmware in drives is a big mess
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• 890[18:59:08] <ndorf> yeah, what oxek said.
• 891[18:59:16] <BlakesSeven> Anyone swank with XRDP?
• 892[18:59:21] <ndorf> funny enough, it didn't stop working until i rebooted the host (this is a USB HDD)
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• 894[18:59:36] <BlakesSeven> Or does anyone know a channel for xrdp?
• 895[18:59:45] <tarzeau_> BlakesSeven: here. i'm using it heavily
• 896[18:59:47] <ndorf> until then, hdparm -I reported the correct new sector size and everything.
• 897[19:00:30] <alkisg> ndorf: in some cases after soft reboots hardware retains bad state; do try to unplug it from power, then click on PC power on button to discharge any current left, then connect it to power again... very small chance, but I've seen it enough times to at least give it a try
• 898[19:01:07] <alkisg> (well if it's usb you could probably just remove it from usb for a bit)
• 899[19:01:21] <ndorf> yeah i tried that and unplugging the USB drive itself, no dice
• 900[19:01:29] <alkisg> :/
• 901[19:01:45] <ndorf> hopefully they RMA it though.
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• 903[19:02:09] <ndorf> according to forums, this drive does support changing the sector size, but that's with their proprietary windows tool, i dunno about hdparm lol
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• 905[19:02:33] <oxek> usb enclosure?
• 906[19:02:48] <oxek> if RMA is unsuccessful, try removing it from the enclosure and connect it directly
• 907[19:02:50] <ndorf> yeah it's one of those WD Easystores from best buy
• 908[19:02:50] <BlakesSeven> tarzeau_, I just setup audio redirection using xrdp sink virtual audio device, but it's very laggy. the sound plays, stops, plays. If I close the audio source, there is significant buffered of the audio to the point it continues to play in a broken fashion for +30s after the app is closed.
• 909[19:02:58] <ndorf> good idea.
• 910[19:03:00] <ndorf> thanks
• 911[19:03:06] <oxek> shunt it, I think that's what it's called
• 912[19:03:15] <ndorf> shuck, i think. like an oyster
• 913[19:03:16] <tarzeau_> BlakesSeven: is that oss or alsa or pulseaudio?
• 914[19:03:21] <oxek> ah, yes
• 915[19:03:24] <BlakesSeven> pulseaudio
• 916[19:03:35] <ndorf> if only hard drives were as delicious
• 917[19:03:37] <oxek> lots of shucking guides online
• 918[19:03:39] <tarzeau_> BlakesSeven: i'd try alsa instead?
• 919[19:04:30] <BlakesSeven> I didn't find any information on that but I wasn't specifically looking for it. Will give it a try. Thanks.
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• 922[19:06:31] <TheBigK> okay i dist-upgraded a test VM... same problem...
• 923[19:06:35] <TheBigK> lets see booting old kernel works
• 924[19:07:44] <TheBigK> old kernel doesnt work either.. then its related to the openvpn package
• 925[19:08:13] <TheBigK> thats what i deserve for using testing =)
• 926[19:08:29] <oxek> !debian-next
• 927[19:08:29] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
• 928[19:09:00] <TheBigK> shouldnt i just file a bug report?
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• 931[19:12:11] <BlakesSeven> tarzeau_, looks like the alsa driver is even more sensitive to timing issues which is why neutrinolabs suggest pulseaudio.
• 932[19:13:04] <ndorf> has anyone used i3 in combination with MATE successfully? or i3 with a different DE?
• 933[19:13:29] <ndorf> it works well out of the box, except for the clock-applet's calendar widget. instead of appearing as a normal dropdown, it gets tiled with the entire workspace. and then can't even receive focus
• 934[19:14:30] <BlakesSeven> Anyone know of an active xrdp channel? Can't seem to find one.
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• 939[19:19:18] <jelly> TheBigK, I don't mean "ping it" I mean is that an IP on a local network for some interface, because if it's not, you can use it as a gateway for a route
• 940[19:19:40] <jelly> CAN'T* use it
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• 942[19:22:13] <TheBigK> 10.16.13.1 is the gateway on the vpn server
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• 944[19:22:23] <TheBigK> its not configured on my local interface
• 945[19:22:32] <TheBigK> i have a client ip in that 10.16.13.0/24 network
• 946[19:22:51] <TheBigK> i tried on server side to remove 10.16.13.1 in the push command... but that didnt do the trick
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• 949[19:23:58] <TheBigK> i could revert the VM to stable again. i did a snapshot before dist-upgrade and test if it works again. but im quite sure it would
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• 951[19:24:43] <TheBigK> i googled around and found some ppl in arch/manjaro downgrading the openvpn client to older version and it started to work again. but doing stuff like that in debian... is a little harder :)
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• 955[19:26:25] <TheBigK> im going to do a workaround i think... doing a post ip-up or something like that to add the routes manually... but i was hoping to find a server issue or something like that...
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• 960[19:31:32] <Xliff> Hello!
• 961[19:31:40] *** Joins: D4rk2020 (~darkangel@replaced-ip)
• 962[19:31:44] <Xliff> I am trying to compile the mesa-utils package for i386
• 963[19:31:58] <Xliff> This is in the hopes that it will fix Steam, which is no longer working on my system.
• 964[19:32:04] *** Quits: s8548a (~s8548a@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 965[19:32:04] <Xliff> It's ironic. It was just working on Wednesday
• 966[19:32:19] <Xliff> I am running into an issue trying to recompile libglew for 32 bits.
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• 968[19:32:55] <Xliff> Output for that can be found here: replaced-url
• 969[19:33:01] <Xliff> Can someone help me resolve?
• 970[19:33:04] <Xliff> TIA
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• 974[19:34:16] <TheBigK> Xliff: do u use the steam debian package? i dont think u need to recompile stuff to just get steam to work
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• 977[19:35:11] <TheBigK> replaced-url
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• 984[19:44:32] <ratrace> Xliff: what system is that, and what changed to have Steam stop working? Because it's working mighty fine here, I'm playing something right now
• 985[19:44:58] <Xliff> The BigK: Checking.
• 986[19:45:09] <Xliff> For the record, I did update NVidia drivers
• 987[19:45:23] <Xliff> However steam worked fine after update. it is only after reboot that I am having problems.
• 988[19:45:53] <Xliff> ratrace: Ubuntu Groovy
• 989[19:46:04] <urk> Im getting prompted to insert Debian Linux install disk 10.9 after attempting to install hexchat at the command line, and contine to get this prompt after the install disk is inserted. How do I get around this problem?
• 990[19:46:13] <ratrace> Xliff: so then why are you asking here? Ubuntu is offtopic here
• 991[19:46:32] <Xliff> Near as I can tell the 32 bit mesa-utils are not present.
• 992[19:46:42] <oxek> urk: you need a different install disk that contains hexchat, or you enable online apt repos
• 993[19:46:43] <Xliff> ratrace: HAH! You are correct. I will switch to the correct channel. Thanks.
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• 995[19:46:59] <ratrace> urk: comment it out from sources.list?
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• 997[19:47:54] <urk> I bought a Cat 8 cable, and a Thunderbolt adapter since I couldnt get wireless access without kernel 5.10 I have been able to run a dew updates.
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• 999[19:50:57] <ratrace> urk: ah so you _need_ the DVD apt source?
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• 1001[19:52:15] <oxek> urk is doing some very unusual things generally ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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• 1024[20:20:23] <deego> buster-updates has a newer version of apt (than stable or security). Why would that be the case? I thought buster-updates is for things like latest timezone, virus-scan data, etc.
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• 1026[20:22:06] <sney> the changelog says it's to fix #931566
• 1027[20:22:07] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 1028[20:22:18] <sney> replaced-url
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• 1031[20:25:21] <ratrace> it's apparently also for serious bugs
• 1032[20:26:16] <deego> ah, thanks
• 1033[20:26:28] <deego> , sney and ratrace
• 1034[20:26:32] <sney> np
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• 1045[20:43:20] <oxek> that apt fix looks important
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• 1047[20:46:24] <ratrace> important enough to get fixed in only 2 years :)
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• 1049[20:48:48] <jelly> no, important enough to get fixed before the release upgrade
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• 1051[20:50:46] <ratrace> jelly: I'm gonna win, ain't I :)
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• 1053[20:51:40] <jelly> I honestly don't see a problem with breaking people who use "stable" in their sources.list :-)
• 1054[20:51:50] <jelly> s/people/installs/
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• 1056[20:53:03] <Travis> Hello. Has anyone here been successful in getting all the features of a Dell Latitude XT, to run on Debian? I am attempting to now.
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• 1061[20:55:23] <ratrace> jelly: so that will now also stop the notifications on point releases, yes?
• 1062[20:55:28] <Xliff> I'm getting an error using Debhelper: Can't exec "i686-linux-gnu-objdump": No such file or directory at /usr/share/perl5/Debian/Debhelper/Dh_Lib.pm line 557.
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• 1064[20:56:09] <Xliff> How can I force the autodetection of this comman to use x86_64-linux-gnu instead of i686-linux-gnu?
• 1065[20:56:49] <ratrace> Xliff: on Ubuntu, right?
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• 1068[20:58:54] <Xliff> ratrace: These are Debian commands, I expect this to be fairly universal.
• 1069[20:59:20] <Xliff> If you can tell me how to do it on Debian hopefully I'll be able to figure out the rest.
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• 1071[20:59:46] <Xliff> ratrace: So if you could please help, I'd really appreciate it.
• 1072[20:59:46] <Xliff> I'
• 1073[20:59:50] <Xliff> I'm at wits end, here.
• 1074[21:00:09] <ratrace> Xliff: how do you know Ubuntu has'nt changed the code of debhelper?
• 1075[21:00:11] <ratrace> !based on debian
• 1076[21:00:11] <dpkg> Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare replaced-url
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• 1078[21:01:19] <Xliff> ratrace: I am asking for help with a question pertinent to Debian. Please respect my need for info and tell me how to do it ON DEBIAN
• 1079[21:02:00] <Xliff> If you don't know, please say so.
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• 1085[21:07:24] <oxek> Xliff: ##linux is a bit more universal channel if #ubuntu did not help
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• 1087[21:08:19] <Xliff> oxek: Thanks for the suggestion. I'm hoping someone here will eventually be able to help.
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• 1089[21:08:34] <oxek> all I can tell you is that I don't have the issue you're having, and I'm on debian stable
• 1090[21:09:13] <Xliff> I've tracked the issue down.
• 1091[21:09:22] <Xliff> I just need help with the Debian Build Tools.
• 1092[21:10:16] <oxek> /usr/share/perl5/Debian/Debhelper/Dh_Lib.pm exists on debian stable, provided by the packages debhelper and libdebhelper-perl
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• 1094[21:10:47] <Xliff> oxek: Yes, so where does that code go to pick up the executable prefixes?
• 1095[21:11:07] <Xliff> I would expect that method to remain the same across debian and all of its descendants.
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• 1097[21:11:30] <Xliff> That's what I need help with. If there is a channel for the dh build tools, I will ask there.
• 1098[21:11:34] <Xliff> Thank you for the attention.
• 1099[21:11:46] <oxek> looks like the line numbers do not correspond between ubuntu and debian for that file
• 1100[21:11:52] <oxek> so it really isn't a debian question
• 1101[21:12:01] <oxek> ubuntu changed it
• 1102[21:12:38] <Xliff> O_o
• 1103[21:13:05] <Xliff> okex: I doubt that. These files are extremely abstracted.
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• 1105[21:14:07] <Xliff> You don't have "open(my $fd, '-|', @cmd) or error('fork+exec (' . escape_shell(@cmd) . "): $!");" on line 557?
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• 1107[21:14:41] <petn-randall> Xliff: If you can't reproduce the issue on Debian, your question is offtopic here. Please respect that we don't support other OSes, even if their support channels are clueless.
• 1108[21:14:50] <NetTerminalGene> gnome-shell process eats cpu about %1-%3 on idle continuously. is it normal?
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• 1112[21:17:23] <oxek> NetTerminalGene: is that 1%-3% of a single core? If yes, that sounds about normal.
• 1113[21:17:46] <petn-randall> Xliff: Given that it works on Debian, but is broken on Ubuntu, that bug seems specific to Ubuntu. That might give you enough info to bisect the issue.
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• 1115[21:18:30] <NetTerminalGene> oxek: i don'y know if it eats just a single core. but modern cpus don't change cores continuosly
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• 1117[21:18:33] <NetTerminalGene> ?
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• 1119[21:19:07] <NetTerminalGene> don't modern cpus change cores continuosly?
• 1120[21:19:41] <petn-randall> NetTerminalGene: The kernel might switch cores if it believes it is beneficial, e.g. if it can turn off the other cores and save power.
• 1121[21:19:43] <ratrace> it's not up to cores but to scheduler and on linux, yes, it'll switch processes around
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• 1123[21:20:13] <ratrace> (it's not absolute, tho. depends on situation)
• 1124[21:20:18] <petn-randall> Or if it believes the process might be CPU bound soon, so it'll shift it to a free core. That happens fairly often.
• 1125[21:20:21] <NetTerminalGene> petn-randall: so, is it normal using %3 cpu on idle?
• 1126[21:20:57] <NetTerminalGene> gnome-shell process
• 1127[21:20:59] <petn-randall> NetTerminalGene: On my machine it is.
• 1128[21:21:03] <ratrace> I'd say, since GNOME wants some fairly advanced opengl features, if your GPU (driver) doesn't support them, it'll be rendered in software. Also, being javascript heavy, if you have extensions, it _will_ eat into CPU.
• 1129[21:21:32] <petn-randall> NetTerminalGene: Note that it's 1-3% of your CPU in the lowest frequency.
• 1130[21:22:51] <NetTerminalGene> after pulseaudio issue i just became paranoid about it
• 1131[21:23:07] <NetTerminalGene> i have to restart pulseaudio service after every firefox launch
• 1132[21:23:20] <NetTerminalGene> because it eats %5 cpu lol
• 1133[21:25:22] <ratrace> modern linux desktop is terrible.
• 1134[21:26:31] <Xliff> petn-randall: I was asking for specific help for debian utilities. Information that does not change across installations.
• 1135[21:26:37] <Xliff> I have solved the problem.
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• 1155[21:53:19] <urk> Just curious what distribution has kernel 5.10?
• 1156[21:53:42] <sney> ,kernels
• 1157[21:53:43] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.10.0-trunk-686 (5.10.2-1~exp1); sid: 5.10.0-6-686 (5.10.28-1); bullseye: 5.10.0-6-686 (5.10.28-1); buster-backports: 5.10.0-0.bpo.5-686-pae (5.10.24-1~bpo10+1); buster: 4.19.0-16-686-pae (4.19.181-1); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.19.118-2+deb10u1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.19.0-0.bpo.16-686 (4.19.181-1~deb9u1); jessie-backports:
• 1158[21:53:44] <judd> 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.12-686 (4.9.210-1+deb9u1~deb8u1)
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• 1161[22:00:03] <cybrNaut> what does "mkfs.ext4 -d <directory>" do, besides what's written in the man page?
• 1162[22:00:48] <cybrNaut> seems a bit rediculous that mkfs would be copying files, unless it's doing something special
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• 1168[22:03:57] <ratrace> cybrNaut: sometimes a cigar is just a cigar :)
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• 1171[22:05:40] <oxek> cybrNaut: why would it be ridiculous?
• 1172[22:05:58] <oxek> I can mkfs a 1G container, and -d saves me from having to mount it somewhere and copy files into it
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• 1175[22:10:05] <cybrNaut> there's a philosophy in unix and linux to keep tools small and lean, to do just one thing and do it well. Monolithic tools that try to do everything have a propensity for bugs and code duplication, excessive complexity.
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• 1177[22:10:50] <oxek> that's unix philosophy. Thankfully linux is not unix.
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• 1179[22:12:44] <cybrNaut> saving you from mounting and running rsync may indeed be why it's there, but are you guessing? I ask, because I intend to copy system files to a new partition on a new device (a /boot partition) and want to know if mkfs does something special to replicate position
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• 1181[22:13:04] <oxek> I'm not guessing. That's how it works.
• 1182[22:13:15] <horribleprogram> some .epubs, when copied to a Linux machine, "dissolve" into individual files
• 1183[22:13:21] <horribleprogram> like thousands of them
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• 1185[22:13:42] <horribleprogram> I'm guessing .epub is an archive, but I'm curious why programs like scp iterate over the entire archive
• 1186[22:13:52] <oxek> that doesn't sound right
• 1187[22:13:53] <horribleprogram> and how I'd keep it's structure or w/e
• 1188[22:13:57] <cybrNaut> I'm grateful that the small and dedicated philosophy has been adopted on linux, which is one of many reasons linux is favorable over windows
• 1189[22:14:10] <horribleprogram> oxek: it's a macOS problem
• 1190[22:14:12] <oxek> cybrNaut: it really isn't. Have you seen the linux kernel?
• 1191[22:14:39] <horribleprogram> oxek: I think when u open an .epub on macOS, the default "books" application anyways, it does some metadata manipulation or w/e
• 1192[22:15:10] <cybrNaut> oxek: the kernel is exceptionally poor in that regard. Luckily it's just the kernel that overlooked that advantage, not the rest of the system of gnu tools
• 1193[22:15:20] <oxek> calibre messes with .epub file metadata
• 1194[22:15:25] <oxek> on reading
• 1195[22:15:34] <horribleprogram> oxek: yup
• 1196[22:15:38] <horribleprogram> oxek: that's what it was then
• 1197[22:15:49] <oxek> you can disable it though
• 1198[22:15:51] <horribleprogram> oxek: cuz I have that program and use it as a "library"
• 1199[22:16:01] <horribleprogram> are all my .epubs ruined now ffs
• 1200[22:16:24] <oxek> horribleprogram: replaced-url
• 1201[22:16:47] <horribleprogram> the problem is
• 1202[22:16:55] <horribleprogram> the epubs have already been opened
• 1203[22:17:04] <oxek> cybrNaut: systemd?
• 1204[22:17:09] <oxek> linux really isn't unix
• 1205[22:17:14] <horribleprogram> systemd is better than init
• 1206[22:17:35] <oxek> horribleprogram: you missed the start of that convo
• 1207[22:17:37] <horribleprogram> oxek: scp them to my Linux machine copies thousands of files
• 1208[22:17:47] <horribleprogram> no ik what ur saying
• 1209[22:17:52] <horribleprogram> the philosophy of small programs
• 1210[22:18:00] <horribleprogram> that do a small subset of things
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• 1212[22:18:10] <horribleprogram> instead of 1 huge program that does everything
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• 1217[22:22:09] <cybrNaut> "mkfs.ext4 -d <directory>" is poorly documented. No indication of whether ownership, permissions, and other metadata is preserved, and certainly no control over it. mkfs.ext should just step aside on that, because rsync is dedicated to copying files and it does that one task very well
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• 1221[22:23:45] <oxek> cybrNaut: I can run mkfs.ext4 on a container file without root privileges, and copy things into it. I can't mount it though. Hence -d has a use.
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• 1223[22:24:26] <oxek> plus is it incredibly useful for testing
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• 1226[22:24:38] <jelly> what use is a fs image... if you cannot mount?
• 1227[22:25:04] <oxek> jelly: distributing it further
• 1228[22:25:23] <oxek> can generate fs images on a machine with restricted privileges
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• 1233[22:28:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1041
• 1234[22:28:53] <cybrNaut> it would be useful if "mkfs.ext4 -d <directory>" could precisely size the target to hold exactly what's copied and not a byte more, but I don't suppose it can since the target must be allocated as a separate step
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• 1236[22:31:01] <jelly> one could mount it inside user-mode-linux, but okay
• 1237[22:33:09] <cybrNaut> i suppose it makes sense if a user has neither a means to admin privs nor user-mount privs
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• 1240[22:35:54] <oxek> cybrNaut: it's also reproducible
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• 1244[22:39:42] <coc0nut> whats the best epub reader for debian? :o
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• 1255[22:50:25] <abstractednoah> coc0nut: i'm a fan of okular, but don't use it for epub that often so ymmv
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• 1261[22:52:43] <coc0nut> ill give it a try... internet says calibre #1 :p but i dont quite like the interface of it
• 1262[22:52:49] <coc0nut> thx :)
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• 1267[22:58:53] <karlpinc> coc0nut: Apparently there's also fbreader. FYI.
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• 1274[23:06:29] <coc0nut> Encountered a problem with fbreader, because Im opening epub files from a network storage... need to mount the network location using cifs then?
• 1275[23:06:34] <coc0nut> @ karlpinc
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• 1287[23:10:39] <karlpinc> coc0nut: I've no idea. I used debtags (w. aptitude) to search for epub.
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• 1292[23:13:06] <TheBigK> anyone of u using nzbget?
• 1293[23:13:19] <karlpinc> !anyone
• 1294[23:13:20] <dpkg> Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
• 1295[23:13:47] <TheBigK> since switching to arm64 nzbget is super slow. i dont see any bottlenecks
• 1296[23:14:25] <karlpinc> TheBigK: What are you using to look for bottlenecks?
• 1297[23:14:35] <TheBigK> usually the load goes super high when i start a download... now the system idles... and the download is slow
• 1298[23:15:37] <TheBigK> iostat, top, and speedtest-cli
• 1299[23:15:47] <karlpinc> TheBigK: What does vmstat say?
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• 2447[23:21:27] <urk> Something weird occurs when I run commands, and I get the following error "I downloaded chrome, and would like to install it, but not sure what to do next. I can't find the package.
• 2448[23:21:27] <urk> <urk> I get the following error when attempting to run the install command "unable to resolve host localhost.localdomain: Name or service not known". Any idea what is causing this?
• 2449[23:22:11] <karlpinc> urk: What is "the install command"?
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• 2508[23:23:47] <TheBigK> a test wget does derliver 35 mb/s... this is so weird
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• 2510[23:23:59] <horribleprogram> pstree died?
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• 2512[23:24:15] <horribleprogram> or is it sudo apt install tree now?
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• 2514[23:25:00] <karlpinc> TheBigK: Maybe you're swapping or otherwise running out of ram when decompressing, or something else. vmstat would probably tell you.
• 2515[23:25:17] <TheBigK> nah, 4 gig ram.. no swap... do oom
• 2516[23:25:21] <TheBigK> no oo
• 2517[23:25:27] <TheBigK> oom... sorry :D
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• 2520[23:26:08] <TheBigK> didnt change the config... just the architecture... and from buster to bullseye...
• 2521[23:26:55] <urk> karlpinc: sudo apt install ./google-chrome-stable_current_amd64.deb
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• 2523[23:27:56] <urk> karlpinc: Also, I ran sudo apt install ./google-chrome-stable_current_amd64.deb which seemed to complete normally, but I still can't find chrome.
• 2524[23:28:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 922
• 2525[23:28:22] <karlpinc> urk: Dunno. I always use dpkg to install .deb files. (The <don't break debian> factoid warns against installing packages from hither and yon, in case that's what you're doing.)
• 2526[23:29:22] <karlpinc> urk: 'dpkg -L google-chrome-stable_current_amd64' will probably tell you what got installed.
• 2527[23:29:26] <ratrace> horribleprogram: the package is "psmisc"
• 2528[23:29:27] <urk> karlpinc: The wget command, and the other command are recognized commands, and the wget command usually works with no problem. But can't find it.
• 2529[23:30:08] <karlpinc> urk: If "which wget" does not find it, you need to see what's happened to $PATH. (echo $PATH)
• 2530[23:30:13] <urk> karlpinc: It says Google Chrome stable is not installed.
• 2531[23:30:23] <TheBigK> i gonna debug this tomorrow... may be its the usenet provider... gn8.. and thanks for the input
• 2532[23:33:02] <urk> karlpinc: This is the results replaced-url
• 2533[23:33:03] <karlpinc> urk: Near as I can tell, apt does not install .deb files, except in so far as it gets "stuff" from repos and the "stuff" are probably .deb files.
• 2534[23:33:34] <karlpinc> urk: I could be wrong. The apt man page does not really say.
• 2535[23:33:39] <oxek> urk: fix your /etc/hostname and /etc/hosts
• 2536[23:33:57] <urk> oxek: how?
• 2537[23:34:05] <ratrace> karlpinc: apt can install .deb files
• 2538[23:34:06] <oxek> urk: you can edit those files manually
• 2539[23:34:09] <urk> I am on the Dell XPS
• 2540[23:34:20] <oxek> the fact that your machine is known as 'localhost' is confusing sudo
• 2541[23:34:25] <oxek> and other tools
• 2542[23:35:06] <urk> oxek: At bootup, and after entering credentials, it then shows the bootup screen again, and I have to login twice in order to log in. Not sure why, nor what caused this.
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• 2544[23:35:32] <oxek> what caused this? You did. 100% certain.
• 2545[23:35:44] <urk> oxek: not sure how.
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• 2547[23:35:48] <oxek> you're doing some *very* unusual things, without understanding what they do
• 2548[23:35:56] <gry> someone can help with quick maths? if i do 800 KB/s, then how much is it per month? trying to fit debian torrenting into my monthly internet cap
• 2549[23:36:00] <urk> oxek: what am I doing that is unusual?
• 2550[23:36:17] <oxek> urk: the whole way you were installing debian, for one
• 2551[23:36:18] <ratrace> gry: it's over nine thousand
• 2552[23:37:03] <oxek> gry: it's multiplication. You find out how many seconds there are in a month and then multiply.
• 2553[23:37:09] <urk> oxek: Debian kernel 4.19 was installed from a disk, and from a link that this channel provided me. Subsequently upgrades were ran after I purchase an adapter, and Cat 8 cable to hookup to my modem.
• 2554[23:37:49] *** Quits: chmykh (~chmykh@replaced-ip) (Quit: chmykh)
• 2555[23:37:52] <urk> I don't see what is unusual about that, but this distro does have some bugs, such as not supporting wireless. Wireless will not work unless kernel 5.10 is installed, and that isn't part of the stable release so I am going to wait before adding it.
• 2556[23:38:27] <karlpinc> urk: Your hardware is too new. You could probably use a backported kernel.
• 2557[23:38:35] <urk> How do I get rid of that local host? That appeared immediately after installation.
• 2558[23:38:52] *** Quits: Buliarous (~gypsydang@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
• 2559[23:38:58] <karlpinc> urk: What does "cat /etc/hostname" say?
• 2560[23:38:59] <gry> ratrace: i'm looking for something in the units of 'GB/month'
• 2561[23:39:16] <urk> karlpinc: I have backports running. The following is my configuration file, but there are a couple of redundancies that need to be removed replaced-url
• 2562[23:39:18] <gry> i did a calculation, but i'd like someone to do it (without myself telling how i did it), to double-check
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• 2564[23:39:30] <ratrace> gry: if you got 2.07TB, you're golden
• 2565[23:39:51] <urk> karlpinc: localhost
• 2566[23:40:24] <urk> How do I get rid of this local host? I am going to look up a solution on the net.
• 2567[23:40:34] <gry> ratrace: i did (800*3600*24*31)/(1024*1024*1024) and it returned 1.96GB, not 2TB
• 2568[23:40:48] <karlpinc> urk: That's your problem. You need to change from "localhost" to some other name. And in /etc/hosts too.
• 2569[23:40:53] <gry> ratrace: considering one 1024 is for KB, another for MB, and another for GB
• 2570[23:40:54] <ratrace> gry: no, that's 1.96 TiB
• 2571[23:41:16] <ratrace> if you're using 1024, then use proper unit KiB, MiB, TiB. I said 2.07TB, not TiB
• 2572[23:41:17] <gry> ratrace: ok, then KiB, MiB, and GiB, but i don't see where the TiB comes from
• 2573[23:41:54] <karlpinc> urk: (But "localhost" _should_ be in /etc/hosts, to refer to ::1 and 127.0.0.1)
• 2574[23:42:12] <ratrace> gry: if it's 800 KiB, then 1024 = Mib, another 1024 = GiB and that third is TiB
• 2575[23:42:43] <urk> karlpinc: should I delete lines 2 & 3 in /etc/hosts replaced-url
• 2576[23:43:00] <karlpinc> urk: Then, as root: hostname -F /etc/hostname
• 2577[23:43:09] <urk> so do both?
• 2578[23:43:46] <karlpinc> urk: No, lines 2 and three are fine.
• 2579[23:44:39] <urk> so I am literally supposed to enter "hostname -
• 2580[23:44:53] <horribleprogram> ratrace: ty
• 2581[23:45:13] <urk> meant to type verbatim "hostname -F /etc/hostname"
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• 2585[23:45:55] <karlpinc> urk: /etc/hostname should contain the name you give your computer. And it shouldn't be "localhost". (At least it seems that strange things would happen if you chose "localhost".)
• 2586[23:46:19] <urk> karlpinc: How do I edit this?
• 2587[23:47:05] <karlpinc> urk: But /etc/hosts should also have the name of your host in it, and assign that name to the IP of your nic. (But something's gone strange with your install because you don't seem to have anything in /etc/hosts that put you on a network.)
• 2588[23:47:45] <karlpinc> urk: With the text editor of your choice. ?
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• 2590[23:48:09] <urk> karlpinc: Didn't do anything more than install the base system using the link, and then hooking up a hardwire to my cable modem, and running update, upgrade after setting up my configuration file.
• 2591[23:48:46] <Stx> urk: You could use the hostname program or hostnamectl (if systemd).
• 2592[23:49:13] <karlpinc> Stx: The hostname program does not change /etc/hostname.
• 2593[23:49:17] <urk> Stx: How does that work?
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• 2595[23:50:22] <urk> karlpinc: Is it ok to change hostname in /etc/hostname with an editor?
• 2596[23:50:38] <urk> I just installed vim
• 2597[23:51:05] <karlpinc> urk: Any editor.
• 2598[23:51:12] <urk> ok
• 2599[23:52:14] <urk> karlpinc: I deleted localhost.
• 2600[23:52:23] <karlpinc> urk: Really, although you can run "hostname" after altering /etc/hostname that won't affect already running programs. It might make sense to reboot if the problem involves running programs.
• 2601[23:52:42] <karlpinc> urk: You need to replace "localhost", not delete it entirely.
• 2602[23:52:52] <ratrace> you can also use hostnamectl, it'll set the /etc/hostname file also
• 2603[23:52:58] <urk> I have already rebooted. Should I reboot again after deleting localhost?
• 2604[23:53:13] <karlpinc> urk: What name did you give your computer?
• 2605[23:53:19] *** Quits: uvolmer (~uvolmer@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 2606[23:53:30] <jelly> !hostname
• 2607[23:53:31] <dpkg> Use «hostname foo» to set the hostname, $EDITOR /etc/hostname to set it for the next boot (create /etc/hostname if it does not exist) and $EDITOR /etc/hosts to set up local translations for a FQDN. See also 'man 1 hostname', or ask me about <mailname>. replaced-url
• 2608[23:55:08] <jelly> $EDITOR stands for any editor (that works as root, some GUI editors don't work directly but do via sudoedit)
• 2609[23:55:50] <gry> ratrace: ah.
• 2610[23:55:52] <gry> ratrace: thanks.
• 2611[23:56:29] <jelly> urk, don't remove any of those lines, just add one for your actual ip (if there's a static assignment) and long and short hostname
• 2612[23:57:12] <jelly> things might expect to be able to resolve "localhost"
• 2613[23:57:23] <karlpinc> jelly: (Apparently so.)
• 2614[23:58:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 915
• 2615[23:58:17] <jelly> also it is not a good idea to replace "localhost" in the line for 127.0.0.1
• 2616[23:59:04] <jelly> if you don't have a static ip, use some other loopback-bound ip, eg: 127.0.1.1 hostname.example.org hostname
• 2617[23:59:54] <ratrace> that, incidentally, is what the installer would do
• 2618[23:59:59] <ratrace> WhatWouldInstallerDo(tm)
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