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• 4[00:01:21] <seekr> ratrace: replaced-url
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• 10[00:07:28] <ratrace> seekr: those are probably PMR
• 11[00:08:11] <ratrace> seekr: SMR are usually very much labeled as such because their application is limited to cold storage or profiles with very little or no random write access
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• 14[00:08:39] <seekr> ratrace: good - guess I'll have to contact WD, which I think owns HGST, to be sure
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• 22[00:12:23] <ryouma> i thought almost everythign was smr these days :( for consumers
• 23[00:12:37] <r3> Urchin[emacs]: I wonder if mounting your filesystem with the 'noatime' option would help your machine? True, it wouldn't have the last access time of files, but ? might help
• 24[00:12:56] <ryouma> would you call rsync random write?
• 25[00:13:21] <ryouma> is that much better htan relatime?
• 26[00:13:36] <ryouma> relatime is default in debian i think
• 27[00:13:38] <r3> ryouma: replaced-url
• 28[00:13:53] <Urchin> r3: completely irrelevant
• 29[00:14:05] <r3> ok then, just a thought.
• 30[00:14:06] <ratrace> r3: probably not, relatime is default and that basically writes an atime timestamp once per 24 hours
• 31[00:14:15] <seekr> ryouma: afaik, rsync runs at a different level than what's involved in doing actual writes
• 32[00:14:43] <ryouma> not sure that answer my q?
• 33[00:14:53] <ryouma> or at least i am not getting it
• 34[00:14:55] <Urchin> r3: I'm using XFS, BTW
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• 36[00:15:12] <ratrace> ryouma: gods no, SMR would be very very very slow on random IO with even a bit written
• 37[00:15:17] <seekr> ryouma: rsync is only involved in getting stuff from here to there - whether random reads and/or writes are required has to do with the devices involved
• 38[00:15:25] <ratrace> thing is, modern drives are so fast that WD is now selling some SMR ones as PMR
• 39[00:15:52] <r3> was just a passing thought from some dusty memory, cheers
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• 41[00:16:07] <ryouma> sure has introduced confusion
• 42[00:16:10] <ryouma> (smr)
• 43[00:16:20] <ratrace> they're of course very slow drives, but for typical consumer use case that's probably unnoticeable. dunno what they're thinking. replaced-url
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• 45[00:17:06] <ratrace> it's simple really. with SMR sectors are overlapped in a "zone". A zone can be 128MB. so if you write a single page of 4k in there, the drive has to re-read and re-write the whole zone.
• 46[00:17:16] <ryouma> i'd like to use portable drives as boot and root and home drives, not merely as "write and then restore", but i think they are mostly or all smr
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• 48[00:17:32] <ratrace> reading however is different, as it's capable of reading "narrow", that is individual tracks, in the overlapped shingle
• 49[00:17:57] <ryouma> also, i'd like to be able to unplug right after writing, which would be inhibited by smr reshuffling in prinicple
• 50[00:18:33] <ratrace> not only that but filesystems have metadata so even what you think is sequential write (eg. rsync writing stuff) is actually random IO, especially in a SMR zone of such size
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• 53[00:19:04] <ryouma> that was what i was getting at
• 54[00:19:14] <ryouma> in my q
• 55[00:19:40] <seekr> ratrace, ryouma - yeah - gotta grab blocks from the free list and update inodes
• 56[00:19:47] <ratrace> ideally the kernel needs to be aware of the zone and reschedule IO before it sends out to disk to minimize zone rewrites
• 57[00:20:22] <ryouma> can debian mark this necessity so the kernel can do it? i suppose debian stable kernels might not ahve that capability.
• 58[00:20:27] <seekr> methinks the only non-random reading or writing involves devices like tape drives
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• 61[00:22:04] <ratrace> replaced-url
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• 66[00:25:51] <ratrace> also worth mentioning: replaced-url
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• 68[00:26:59] <seekr> ratrace: Thanks for all the good info! Now I have to add another item to my to-do list to learn enough to be able to understand it all. :)
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• 86[00:45:58] <fred1807> is Debian ready for the Y2K38 ?
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• 89[00:47:25] <ryouma> fred1807: if you mean the kernel, you could try it using the date command
• 90[00:47:33] <ragouel> fred1807: Ask again in 18 years.
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• 92[00:47:52] <ratrace> current debian versions are unlikely to be supported by then. and it's really the question of whether the kernel is Y2K38 ready, and .... it isn't
• 93[00:47:55] <ryouma> if you mean every language including awk and bash/dash and so on, seems unlikely
• 94[00:48:26] <ryouma> every script in every languyage
• 95[00:49:25] <ratrace> actually, I take that back. as of 5.6, time_t is 64-bit even on 32-bit systems, so yeah, it's ready. I wonder who will run 32-bit in 2038 tho
• 96[00:50:26] <fred1807> arm boards (raspberry pis, etc) running today's debian, may break if not updated?
• 97[00:51:18] <ratrace> whoever runs 18 year old rpi with unsupported old debian, will have much bigger problems than time_t expiring
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• 99[00:51:59] <otyugh> hey
• 100[00:52:07] <ryouma> i was concerned about airplanes and y2k. turned out to be nothing.
• 101[00:52:18] <annadane> the world ended in 2012, everything since is a simulation
• 102[00:52:18] <ryouma> altohuhg, my hp200lx had a minor glitch
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• 104[00:52:34] <annadane> well, it was nothing because they did a lot of work to mitigate the issues
• 105[00:52:51] <ryouma> right, presumably
• 106[00:53:20] <ryouma> it was a deeply personal decision i had to make about whether to allow somebody to fly
• 107[00:53:36] <otyugh> to change language I tried to use "dpkg-reconfigure locales", then chose fr_FR.UTF8 ; then chose fr_FR as first. Then reboot. LANG and a few other are set correctly, but why is LC_TIME still with en_US.UTF-8 ?
• 108[00:53:37] <fred1807> ratrace: So you think a little robot *should* break in 18 years?
• 109[00:54:08] <ratrace> do YOU have any 18 yr old computers still running, around?
• 110[00:54:25] <fred1807> ratrace: If I was building sattelites , I would not hire you
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• 112[00:55:49] <ratrace> that's okay, NASA would :) replaced-url
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• 114[00:57:10] <ryouma> space station uses old processors
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• 117[00:57:42] <ratrace> space station is constantly maintained and parts overhauled.
• 118[00:57:47] <ratrace> *THE space station, ISS.
• 119[00:57:51] <ryouma> nuclear power plants allegedly use old processors, to the point of core memory instead of regular ram
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• 121[00:57:56] <binaryhermit> there were some other minor glitches regarding y2k
• 122[00:58:13] <binaryhermit> but they fixed as many "important" things as they could
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• 124[00:58:32] <binaryhermit> IIRC a lot of dates accidentally got the year formatted as 20100
• 125[00:58:37] <binaryhermit> or was it 19100?
• 126[00:58:55] <ryouma> yes pdp-11 in nuclear power plants
• 127[00:59:09] <fred1807> ratrace: You are out of the business for space probes then
• 128[00:59:24] <ratrace> probably not as I wouldn't put a 32-bit system into one
• 129[00:59:28] <ryouma> that rings a bell on my hp200lx. i think it was dos dir command or something.
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• 135[01:01:34] <ratrace> fred1807: you're using highly specialized, very expensive and, I'll repeat, highly specialized equipment to drive a point for consumer grade, orders of orders of orders of magnitude cheper home computers. that just doesn't work.
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• 137[01:03:35] <binaryhermit> and fwiw, 64 bit time pushes it into the range of 4 billion years from now
• 138[01:03:48] <fred1807> ratrace: You are missing the point. I said if I was a contractor, I would not hire you after you said in the interview nobody should be using a 18 years old computer. I don't like this mind set. I believe we should do our best to build things to last. You are not making into our space team Ratrace, better chance next time.
• 139[01:03:58] <binaryhermit> which... is fair to say "not our problem", humanity likely won't exist then
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• 141[01:05:04] <ratrace> fred1807: 18 years is a LOT of time for technology. not because it wouldn't last that long, but because it evolves so fast that 18 years is ancient history for tech
• 142[01:05:27] <ratrace> if it didn't evolve, I'm sure that rpi could probably operate for many more years, assuming the components wouldn't break
• 143[01:05:45] <ryouma> my current box is 12+yo
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• 148[01:08:21] <ratrace> well I have a 30 year old ATARI ST that still works... what can I do with it though.
• 149[01:09:12] <binaryhermit> ratrace: paperweight? projectile?
• 150[01:09:21] <binaryhermit> retro games?
• 151[01:10:12] <fred1807> ratrace: You could play the games it was designed for?
• 152[01:10:14] <ratrace> binaryhermit: problem is, floppies are dead :
• 153[01:10:27] <binaryhermit> I...
• 154[01:10:30] <binaryhermit> not going there
• 155[01:10:40] <fred1807> I have an original floppy version of Star Control I
• 156[01:11:02] <fred1807> Wonder if there is magnet data on it?
• 157[01:11:07] <ratrace> I have orig floppies too. I actually tried to boot some last year, didn't work
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• 159[01:11:48] <fred1807> 50 years old vinyl music, still works fine, that is some clever designed tech
• 160[01:12:08] <ratrace> even CDs from 15 years ago won't work for me. the home burned CDs, not the industry pressed ones
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• 162[01:12:50] <fred1807> replaced-url
• 163[01:13:02] <ratrace> last year I tried to see what's on a backup CD I had from 15 years ago, and the silver layer in it crumbled to dust. literally.
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• 189[01:49:41] <kristijonas> hi! sorry if my question might sound too basic and trivial, but what does 'dependency' actually means (dependent, but how?) ? i'm not a programmer. But does it normally mean that package x has a binary and needs a shared (dynamic) library that comes from another package?
• 190[01:50:11] <sney> that's not a bad summary, at least at the basic level
• 191[01:50:17] <sney> !policy
• 192[01:50:17] <dpkg> policy is the document that defines how Debian packages should (and must!) interact with each other and with the user to make sure we have a high-quality, stable distribution. You can find it at replaced-url
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• 194[01:53:48] <kristijonas> sney: "Every package must specify the dependency information about other packages that are required for the first to work correctly. For example, a dependency entry must be provided for any shared libraries required by a dynamically-linked executable binary in a package." (3.5). Alright, pretty much what I said. Okay...
• 195[01:55:40] <sney> you also see it with splitting binary and text files from one piece of software. for instance foo-bin (/usr/bin/foo, compiled for amd64) could depend on foo-common (/etc/foo, arch:all)
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• 197[02:00:02] <themill> when you type "apt-cache show package-name" each of Depends, Recommends, Suggests, Enhances, Conflicts, Breaks, Replaces is a type of dependency
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• 200[02:01:59] <kristijonas> sney: okay, i see, what about path? for example, the developer knows about the existance of libx, and he wants to use that library as dynamic one in the code, so does he need to know the path / directory of libx so that s/he can link it?
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• 240[02:37:13] <somiaj> kristijonas: look up the dynamic linker ld, and man ldconfig. That is similar to say a $PATH for libaries.
• 241[02:38:33] <somiaj> so you don't need to know the path, just the libarary name and the linker finds it based off the ld configuration.
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• 294[03:49:48] <Phaellow> Hey guys, I'm having a real pickle atm. I'm trying to sertup a media sever. The tools are running as users in the pi group. However, when I try to access my media folder, owned by the pi group, I get Permission denied. Here's some relevant logs: replaced-url
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• 296[03:50:28] <somiaj> pi group? Is this on raspbian?
• 297[03:50:36] <Phaellow> Yeah
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• 300[03:51:23] <somiaj> this isn't the place to support for raspbian, though your issue is more general there is also ##linux.
• 301[03:51:26] <somiaj> !raspbian
• 302[03:51:26] <dpkg> Raspbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for the <Raspberry Pi>. Raspbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Please use #raspbian (or #raspberrypi) on irc.freenode.net for support. replaced-url
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• 305[03:51:41] <Phaellow> Alright, sorry to bother you.
• 306[03:51:53] <somiaj> I also notice you ahve this in media, is /media/pi some mounted media?
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• 309[03:53:15] <Phaellow> Yeah, it is. Also, I only asked here because it didn't seem like it was an issue with raspbian things but just linux permissions in general
• 310[03:53:18] <somiaj> Phaellow: also note that + at the end of your permissions, you are using extended attribute permissions, check those.
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• 312[03:54:12] <somiaj> In general part of the distro you use is the support community, we choose to support debian pure blends only, for both social and techenical reasons, so even if this isn't directly a raspbian issue, this support community is for debian. ##linux is a good place for generic linux support.
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• 316[03:55:26] <Phaellow> Alright, I'll move the discussion there. Thank you
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• 318[03:55:38] <somiaj> but I think the answer to your question is located in the extened attributes of those files
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• 320[03:55:42] <somiaj> !attr
• 321[03:55:55] <somiaj> man attr
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• 335[04:28:55] <ryouma> why does firefox display more images than feh? can i make feh use some kind of backend so that i still get the same frontend but get more image types?
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• 353[04:37:32] <annadane> image.mp3
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• 357[04:40:27] <ryouma> perhaps i sohuld ask the q about uimlib
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• 385[05:11:15] <somiaj> ryouma: display from imagemagick might be more what you want, feh just has limited image support.
• 386[05:11:44] <somiaj> I like feh better myself, but display has some similar features
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• 391[05:17:00] <technologov> hi all ! Is there a way to receive audio signal via USB from Apple iPhone ? (the way USB headphones do)?
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• 393[05:17:13] <technologov> Linux even supports Apple Audio USB protocol ?
• 394[05:17:30] <technologov> and how about Android ?
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• 396[05:18:38] <somiaj> I have never seen such a tool, though this doesn't mean it can't be done. I think the biggest limitation might be the phone. The phone detects when you plug it into a computer, so it won't output audio data. You may have to be able to make your computer respond like a usb headset would.
• 397[05:18:59] <somiaj> Do you know if this is even support in windows or osx?
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• 399[05:19:37] <technologov> I think not, but Yamaha R-N602 receiver and some Chevrolet cars can receive a signal via USB from Apple iPhone
• 400[05:19:57] <somiaj> The google hits I'm finding say you can do this over bluetooth.
• 401[05:20:01] <technologov> I was never able to receive iPhone audio signal on Windows PC or Linux PC
• 402[05:20:12] <technologov> bluetooth I know
• 403[05:20:15] <technologov> but how about USB ?
• 404[05:20:44] <somiaj> Yea, I know car steros can do it, but I think a lot is in how the usb identifies itself to the phone, and unsure if computer usb connenctions can be modified as such.
• 405[05:20:51] <technologov> I don't know even the real name of Apple iOS Audio and Android Audio protocols
• 406[05:21:41] <technologov> computer USB can be modified however user wants, provided that Linux kernel actually supports the protocol in question (which I don't even know how to find)
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• 408[05:22:34] <somiaj> hmm, found some hits that you can use smartphone as a microphone on widows with andriod but not iphone.
• 409[05:22:35] <technologov> finding the real name of such protocols is a big issue for me
• 410[05:23:51] <somiaj> replaced-url
• 411[05:26:00] <somiaj> found a page that ses you on andriod you can set the usb mode to midi.
• 412[05:26:43] <technologov> midi is not full music though... how to find the name of the protocol and whenever Linux even supports such ... ?
• 413[05:27:36] <somiaj> My googlefu was weak, and outside of that micapp didn't find anything
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• 428[05:51:34] <edufmass> Hello, if I run in tty "shutdown -t now" as root it takes like a minute to begin stopping services and turn of the pc. In i3 as normal user if I run "systemctl poweroff" the pc turn completely off in about 2 seconds. How should I shutdown the computer as normal user?
• 429[05:53:08] *** Quits: wymillerlinux (~wymillerl@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 430[05:59:47] <jmcnaught> edufmass: You can just use 'poweroff' too. For that shutdown command, shutdown(8) does not list a -t option, but does say that if TIME is not specified then +1 is implied. Maybe your '-t' is messing up the command?
• 431[06:00:26] <karlpinc> The "new way" is: systemctl poweroff
• 432[06:00:27] <somiaj> yea the command I use is shutdown -h now
• 433[06:00:48] <edufmass> the "systemctl poweroff" that last like 2 seconds, is still stopping service like shutdown?
• 434[06:00:59] <jmcnaught> yes
• 435[06:01:29] <jmcnaught> I think your shutdown -t now command is ignoring the 'now' which is why it takes a minute to start shutting down
• 436[06:01:39] <somiaj> well any shutdown will have to stop services, and systemd will wait a few minuets to let services stop themselves before just killing them.
• 437[06:01:39] <karlpinc> Uses systemd, which is what's running things.
• 438[06:02:02] <somiaj> I think shutdown just ends up triggering systemd anyways
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• 440[06:02:51] <jmcnaught> Anyways you don't need to type systemctl, 'poweroff' alone is enough.
• 441[06:03:33] <edufmass> Ok,thanks!! I thought that poweroff just cuts power because was fast xD
• 442[06:04:16] <somiaj> ahh with systemd, /bin/{shutdown,halt,poweroff} -> systemctl so it is exactly the same thing
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• 444[06:05:56] <somiaj> ahh seems that systemd has halt.target, poweroff.target, reboot.target, so there might be some differences in how systemd handels a halt vs a poweroff
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• 447[06:07:10] <somiaj> ahh seems the only difference is if the target sends an acpi to the comptuer to poweroff or not, same process in stoping services
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• 515[07:50:10] <password2> .sources jessie
• 516[07:50:25] <somiaj> !jessie sources.list
• 517[07:50:25] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for Debian 8 "Jessie" has two lines: "deb replaced-url
• 518[07:50:43] <password2> thank you
• 519[07:51:20] <somiaj> !jessie lts
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• 521[07:52:54] <password2> to update packages what is best to use? aptitude/apt or apt-get
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• 525[07:54:23] <somiaj> your choice
• 526[07:54:42] <somiaj> apt is now meant for the user, apt-get is meant for scripts, aptitude is powerful and has a nice curses ui, pick one
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• 528[07:55:11] <somiaj> I have mostly switched to apt due to nicer looking output than apt-get, there were a bunch of factoids, though they are kinda dated now.
• 529[07:55:26] <somiaj> so /msg dpkg why apt, why not apt, why aptitude, why not aptitude
• 530[07:59:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1261
• 531[07:59:33] <technologov> why " channel limit to 1261" ? Why limit at all, if it gets raised as people join ?
• 532[07:59:55] <somiaj> to avoid flood joins and spammers
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• 534[08:00:23] <somiaj> bot farms use to have 100s to thousands of bots join at once
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• 536[08:02:31] <b1ackandwh1te> bots are really a potential threat to many good services on internet
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• 538[08:03:34] <b1ackandwh1te> like a knife, you can cut the cheese or kill someone
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• 543[08:07:00] <somiaj> the limit is kept at a reasonable level, so unless there is a major netsplit, it causes no functional problems and protects from mass joins of bots
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• 549[08:14:38] <choice> Hi Gang!
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• 551[08:15:10] <choice> One of my remote machines did not come back after "apt update && apt upgrade" and a "reboot". I had to power it off and on again.
• 552[08:15:26] <choice> How can I figure out why that happened?
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• 563[08:21:55] <Maxt3r> dmesg or logs, journalctl can display last boot
• 564[08:22:13] <Haohmaru> ^ the choice is yours
• 565[08:22:20] <choice> Ok, but the problem started before the last boot.
• 566[08:22:33] <choice> When I did "reboot", it hang until I powered it off.
• 567[08:22:57] <Haohmaru> did it hang before rebooting or after?
• 568[08:23:58] <choice> I don't know. I did "reboot" and then I did not have access to it until I powered it off and on.
• 569[08:24:06] <somiaj> I think you have to make journal persistant (which it isn't by default) to display last boot
• 570[08:24:15] <somiaj> you might be able to find it in /var/syslog if it hasn't been rotated out.
• 571[08:24:34] *** Quits: black_ant (~antilope@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 572[08:24:35] <choice> /var/syslog: No such file or directory
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• 574[08:25:18] <somiaj> ar /var/log/syslog
• 575[08:25:22] <somiaj> arg
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• 577[08:26:00] <choice> Yes, there are lines from before the power-on/power-off.
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• 579[08:26:37] <choice> Last line seems to be executing a cron job.
• 580[08:27:30] <choice> Could it be that the cronjob tried to access a service that already was shut down and therefore hang forever?
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• 582[08:27:45] <choice> I know that this cronjob for example connects to the local apache.
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• 585[08:28:35] <somiaj> how long did it hang? Systemd will give services I think 3-5 mins to shut themselves down before killing them.
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• 587[08:29:24] <choice> I powered off/on after 7 minutes.
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• 595[08:44:44] <choice> I will reboot the machine again to see how it behaves. Fingers crossed ...
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• 597[08:46:44] <choice> The reboot worked flawlessly.
• 598[08:47:33] <choice> About 45s downtime. A bit more then I would like but not a drama.
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• 601[08:49:53] <somiaj> maybe it was some acpi issue, and the reboot didn't trigger correctly.
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• 603[08:51:08] <choice> It's a VPS so I don't think this applies.
• 604[08:51:22] <choice> It probably does no real power on/off thing when I trigger that.
• 605[08:53:12] <choice> What was the command that shows you the disk iops in real time?
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• 612[08:56:04] <somiaj> well vps still emulate some for of api, but in that case, maybe something did hang. Usually systemd will kill processes after X time if they dont' nicely stop themselves.
• 613[08:56:24] <choice> Yeah... I don't know what happened.
• 614[08:56:46] <choice> I wish vmstat would align its output properly.
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• 617[08:58:25] <choice> Ha, "vmstat -d 1" gives some nice infos.
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• 619[08:59:06] <Anonym0us> How can i install syslinux instead of grub during install?
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• 626[09:02:44] <ksk> Anonym0us: Why would you want to do that? (I dont think it works that way)
• 627[09:03:00] <Anonym0us> Cause
• 628[09:03:02] <Anonym0us> I hate grub?
• 629[09:03:23] <ksk> I see. Take a look at all the other 1970 things available then :P
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• 632[09:05:38] <ksk> !syslinux
• 633[09:05:38] <dpkg> SYSLINUX is a suite of boot loaders for x86 systems, supporting FAT/NTFS filesystems (SYSLINUX), bootable ISO-9660 CD-ROMs (ISOLINUX), PXE network booting (PXELINUX) and ext{2,3,4}/btrfs filesystems (EXTLINUX). Also includes MEMDISK for booting legacy operating systems (e.g. MS-DOS). Used in Debian x86 installation media. replaced-url
• 634[09:05:56] <ksk> Anonym0us: ^
• 635[09:05:58] <Anonym0us> I know
• 636[09:06:04] <Anonym0us> Right now
• 637[09:06:31] <Anonym0us> im tryig to make a fgt that apparently thinks he is more intellegent than everyone understand that there isn't a reason for it
• 638[09:07:00] <ksk> pardon?
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• 640[09:07:43] <Anonym0us> as many times as i have installed arch it didn't make me an arrogant person.. Sorry im just in the mood... But another thing is there quite possibly i can install Deb 10 with out netinstall or GUI>?
• 641[09:07:50] <Anonym0us> ->
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• 643[09:08:35] <ksk> !tell Anonym0us about debootstrap
• 644[09:08:48] <Anonym0us> Oh
• 645[09:08:55] <ksk> use that, then chroot into install, install your bootloader.
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• 647[09:09:01] <Anonym0us> Ah nice
• 648[09:09:03] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1268
• 649[09:09:19] <Anonym0us> I was just curious... i have gotten so used to command line installs it's not funny
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• 676[09:24:12] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o somiaj
• 677[09:24:12] *** somiaj sets mode: +q *!*@unaffiliated/korrupt
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• 681[09:25:00] <somiaj> Anonym0us: such language and attacks on users is not welcome here.
• 682[09:26:10] <diogenes_> maybe he comes from #arch.
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• 689[09:37:11] <ksk> rather #arsch ;)
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• 707[09:54:53] <shtrb> ,v plasmashell
• 708[09:54:54] <judd> No package named 'plasmashell' was found in amd64.
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• 710[09:55:22] <shtrb> ,v plasma-workspace
• 711[09:55:23] <judd> Package: plasma-workspace on amd64 -- stretch: 4:5.8.6-2.1+deb9u1; stretch-security: 4:5.8.6-2.1+deb9u1; buster: 4:5.14.5.1-1; bullseye: 4:5.17.5-4; sid: 4:5.17.5-4
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• 739[10:16:51] <pragomer> hi. is anyone familar with "groff" ?
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• 748[10:21:35] <ratrace> !anyone
• 749[10:21:35] <dpkg> Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
• 750[10:21:40] <ratrace> pragomer: ^^^
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• 753[10:23:59] <password2> lol
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• 755[10:24:25] <password2> all human interaction will be optimized away , compliance is encouraged
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• 757[10:26:02] <shtrb> ?
• 758[10:26:21] <themill> the answer is of course, "no-one uses groff (except by accident when reading manual pages)"
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• 760[10:27:31] <Boohbah> pragomer: Yes. We know it.
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• 766[10:31:49] <pragomer> Boohbah: hi *LOL*..... yes, so I am actually trying out groff. Its for creating my personal wiki.. I tried "remarkable" before, but I really like the linux philosophy: one little tool for a thing ...
• 767[10:32:07] <pragomer> I checked the manpage several times..:
• 768[10:32:09] <pragomer> replaced-url
• 769[10:32:33] <pragomer> but I could really not figure out how to use (and embed?) fonts...
• 770[10:32:53] <pragomer> I simply do not understand the manual at this point :-(
• 771[10:34:27] <pragomer> ratrace: Ok, I understood the "just ask" thing ;-)
• 772[10:35:01] <pragomer> I simply do not know what to do about this chapter: replaced-url
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• 775[10:37:37] <pragomer> themill: ok, I just thought it would be a nice "simplistic" way to create my totally simple wiki-file..
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• 777[10:41:19] <miskatonic> groff is such a pain in the rear when it comes to structured documentation
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• 780[10:47:20] <miskatonic> I guess that TeX is no option for pragomer?
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• 783[10:50:08] <ayekat> I only use groff for writing manpages, but I guess anything beyond that is a bit madness
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• 787[10:51:28] <archuserau> Hey all. I just updated my computer and now wireguard has broken. I am pretty sure a kernel update did it. How do i go about sorting this out?
• 788[10:52:08] <pragomer> miskatonic: I dont really know... I wrote my personal knowledge / wiki thing always in LibreOffice... but working with a simple Textfile and markup commands seemed to me very convenient.. and I wanted to tried it out..
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• 791[10:52:46] <pragomer> So I found "remarkable":. but I also very like the command line... and beeing simplistic.. I also thought about using pandoc... and groff in this case
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• 795[10:58:32] <archuserau> Sorted it. Just had to reinstall wireguard
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• 803[11:02:12] <miskatonic> md is also simple, and mediawiki, handled by pandoc
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• 807[11:05:30] <foul_owl_> How do I install older versions of the open JDK? Unfortunately for a project I need jdk 8
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• 811[11:07:11] <Logg> openjdk 8 is currently not in debian stable repos due to some stupid security concern. It's in testing repo though.
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• 815[11:07:40] <Logg> You can set up a virtual machine with Debian testing in it & develop there
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• 818[11:08:16] <foul_owl_> Understood, thank you!
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• 848[11:32:10] <SimonB> Ok so I have the right layout in /etc/default/keyboard. I've set keyboard layot correctly via 'dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration'. But every reboot I end up with a US keyboard layout. Is there somewhere Xorg specifics I need to set it too?
• 849[11:32:17] <SimonB> *specific
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• 851[11:32:48] <SimonB> replaced-url
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• 862[11:38:10] <n_1-c_k> SimonB, try /
• 863[11:38:23] <diogenes_> SimonB, what DE?
• 864[11:38:28] <n_1-c_k> oops.. try 'setxkbmap' from your .xinitrc or .xsession or whatever it is
• 865[11:38:42] <SimonB> diogenes_: lxqt
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• 867[11:39:34] <miskatonic> but how is lxqt started? With sddm?
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• 869[11:39:58] <SimonB> miskatonic: with sddm, yup.
• 870[11:40:20] <SimonB> n_1-c_k: I'll give that a try thanks.
• 871[11:40:49] <diogenes_> miskatonic, because that's default for lxqt.
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• 909[12:10:43] <wowas> Hello!
• 910[12:10:48] <wowas> any idea why apt wont offer me the ceph repo? replaced-url
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• 919[12:18:37] <themill> wowas: that's not the right package name
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• 922[12:20:53] <wowas> themill, oh right
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• 925[12:22:25] <wowas> themill, can i show which packages a repo provides?
• 926[12:22:46] <themill> their documentation should do so. You can have a look at the Packages file that apt has downloaded
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• 932[12:26:09] <wowas> themill, replaced-url
• 933[12:26:52] <themill> is that what is listed in the Packages file?
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• 937[12:33:00] <wowas> hm. no :)
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• 964[12:57:36] <rodepanda> I've gotten an abuse message from my host that my server is providing a netscan. It's sending packets to all ip's in the 172.16.0.0/12 block and adding a rule to the iptables did not seem to help. How can I track down which process is sending the requests?
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• 970[13:04:04] <MICROburst> How can I disable swap in buster preseed? 'd-i partman-basicfilesystems/no_swap boolean false' doesn't seem to have an effect.
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• 1029[14:04:59] <oxek> When I press the shortcut to start Application Finder (Alt F3), it starts twice. Anyone know why that could be?
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• 1032[14:06:37] <miskatonic> what is application finder? a specific desktop environmental thing?
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• 1034[14:08:55] <Haohmaru> it's ALT+F2 on my DE
• 1035[14:09:26] <Haohmaru> miskatonic something similar to crapdows's Start->Run / winkey+R
• 1036[14:09:44] <Logg> it's Alt F3 to launch the xfce application launcher in xfce
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• 1039[14:10:13] <Logg> if it's launching twice maybe just go into xfce keyboard shortcuts settings & say "please do not launch twice"
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• 1041[14:10:27] <Logg> out loud
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• 1043[14:10:40] <MICROburst> How can I disable swap in buster preseed? 'd-i partman-basicfilesystems/no_swap boolean false' doesn't seem to have an effect.
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• 1045[14:11:30] <Logg> idk just say "swapoff"
• 1046[14:11:44] <ksk> MICROburst: No Idea, but from logic: "no swap" false -> yes swap please
• 1047[14:11:58] <ksk> Did you try setting it to true? ;)
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• 1049[14:14:25] <MICROburst> ksk: tried false as well as true. No effect.
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• 1097[14:53:07] <r3m1> hello
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• 1100[14:53:44] <r3m1> any doc on how to set up an ssh tunnel at startup using autossh ?
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• 1104[14:56:00] <three> try the arch wiki. looks like theres a part of the openssh page about running autossh at boot using systemd
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• 1110[15:00:39] <b1ack0p> howdy
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• 1138[15:17:55] <Freneticks> Is there a way to create many partition in the cli debian installer (manual) ?
• 1139[15:18:22] <Freneticks> It seems i can only select free space and attribute a filesystem but not divide the space in many partition like adding a swap
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• 1142[15:20:02] <dvs> Freneticks, I'm sure you can set the size of each new partition.
• 1143[15:20:20] <ksk> Freneticks: you can choose the other virtual consoles (ctrl F1?) and do as you like. The installer should however give you the power to create partitions and to define swapspace
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• 1145[15:21:03] <ksk> granted, its a little tricky to understand what to do (talking about the expert cli installer, though I would assume others might also have that options..)
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• 1147[15:21:31] <Johann> Freneticks: if you limit the size of the partition you crreate, you'll be albe to create new ones after that. If you select the whole free space, obviously, you can't do much then.
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• 1149[15:21:41] <Johann> See the doc replaced-url
• 1150[15:21:44] <Freneticks> Johann: there is not such thing as limit
• 1151[15:21:55] <Johann> Freneticks: a size
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• 1154[15:24:11] <Freneticks> replaced-url
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• 1156[15:24:41] <Freneticks> maybe i'm dumb but i don't find it, would be easier with fdisk ><
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• 1158[15:25:37] <dvs> Freneticks, you editing an already existing partition.
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• 1160[15:26:51] <Freneticks> dvs: so how do erase or change, i can only select the partition there is no other key or menu
• 1161[15:27:17] <dvs> ESC?
• 1162[15:27:50] <dvs> Go Back
• 1163[15:28:22] <Freneticks> of course but when i go back the only choice i have is to select the partition
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• 1167[15:30:37] <keebler> Transitioned a hard drive from a Dell Precision 7510 (i7-6820/Quadro M2000), to an MSI Stealth GS63 (i7-8750/RTX2080), and obviously does not boot into X due to nvidia drivers. Disabled it in Xorg.conf, made sure Intel was set to appropriate PCI device, and xinit still fails, "no screens available". BIOS does not allow disabling of dGPU. X -configure fails saying number of Screens do not match....
• 1168[15:30:51] <keebler> Running Stretch
• 1169[15:32:00] <keebler> Haven't had Xorg issues like these in years.
• 1170[15:32:40] <keebler> Ironically, the same drive will be transitioning back into an i7-6820/Quadro M2000 system this weekend (Thinkpad P50)
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• 1172[15:33:02] <keebler> I also purged Xorg and reinstalled
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• 1174[15:33:10] <keebler> Using FluxboxWM
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• 1182[15:34:54] <altker128> Hey guys. Anyone here run Debian in a chroot environment on their Android device? I mean chroot and not proot
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• 1194[15:41:16] <HyP3r> Short Question about Display Manager and UI-Frameworks. As far I understood I can (by default) choose between lightdm and gdm3 on Debian 10/Buster right? And BOTH can then launch e.g. GNOME or XFCE right?
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• 1214[16:02:10] <karlpinc> HyP3r: Should be. I've not tried it.
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• 1217[16:06:44] <HyP3r> karlpinc: I only wanted to talk about the naming... don't know if this is correct
• 1218[16:07:24] <HyP3r> The next thing the login ui (where I can enter username/password) is that from lightdm, gdm3 or is that from xfce, gnome, ...?
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• 1273[16:58:14] <oxek> when I need to backport something, should I backport it from testing or sid?
• 1274[16:58:48] <ksk> !ssb
• 1275[16:58:48] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
• 1276[16:59:27] <ksk> oxek: ^
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• 1279[17:00:44] <oxek> ok I guess sid it is then
• 1280[17:00:56] <oxek> is there any specific reason for sid instead of testing?
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• 1284[17:02:06] <Fox> testing is more broken than sid :)
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• 1286[17:02:47] <somiaj> oxek: choice is yours. Debian backports from testing, to ensure the package has passed standard debian tests to be subitle for a release, many users may find sid better.
• 1287[17:02:55] <somiaj> Fox: in what sense? At least all packages are installable in testing.
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• 1291[17:03:30] <somiaj> I mean are all installable, sid constantally has broken dependency loops
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• 1296[17:10:06] <simplicius> Hello
• 1297[17:10:11] <simplicius> I need debug symbols for libX11.so.6
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• 1301[17:17:32] <Fox> somiaj: it's name tells what it is for, testing, nothing more or less
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• 1319[17:31:07] <oxek> Fox: as opposed to sid, which means 'unstable'? :)
• 1320[17:32:29] <annadane> our old dpl chris lamb recommended unstable over testing but one feels that's a matter of taste
• 1321[17:32:42] <annadane> although he's half right
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• 1323[17:33:18] <greycat> Testing really shouldn't be one's primary day-in, day-out desktop machine.
• 1324[17:33:51] <annadane> i can imagine where you have to use testing because you have a machine that won't be able to use stable and stuff isn't backported yet
• 1325[17:34:06] <greycat> (Am I revealing my age again, by not being a laptopper?)
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• 1330[17:37:20] <annadane> stable still of course remains highly recommended over anything else
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• 1336[17:39:50] <oxek> So I have a weird problem in debian-stable:
• 1337[17:40:07] <oxek> I installed fzf, and it is supposed to have bash-completion support
• 1338[17:40:20] <oxek> /usr/share/bash-completion/completions/fzf indeed exists
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• 1341[17:40:27] <oxek> but it is not getting sourced for some reason
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• 1343[17:40:36] <oxek> I logged out and logged back in, and it still does not work
• 1344[17:40:47] <oxek> but when I source it manually it works until I logout and login
• 1345[17:40:51] <greycat> even after you start a new instance of bash? and *other* commands have their programmable completion stuff working?
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• 1347[17:41:05] <oxek> I know I can source /usr/share/bash-completion/completions/fzf from my ~/.bashrc, but it feels like I should not have to do that
• 1348[17:41:12] <oxek> other bash-completion works fine
• 1349[17:41:20] <oxek> bash-completion package is installed
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• 1351[17:41:38] <oxek> and the segment in ~/.bashrc that covers bash-completion is uncommented, by default
• 1352[17:41:49] <greycat> and you started a new instance of bash since installing the package?
• 1353[17:41:54] <oxek> yes
• 1354[17:42:09] <oxek> hence I am very confused by the behavior I am seeing
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• 1359[17:43:10] <oxek> any pointers on how to proceed would be appreciated
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• 1365[17:45:12] <dvs> oxek, put something in /etc/profile.d or is that for somethine else?
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• 1368[17:45:23] <greycat> that is not a correct answer
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• 1370[17:45:40] <greycat> I tried searching for existing bug reports on it, but stopped after one google search
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• 1372[17:46:07] <greycat> I do not use bash-completion, and I am not going to tear it apart trying to figure out how it's supposed to work and how it's failing in this single instance.
• 1373[17:46:10] <alexandros_c> good day, I am using debian 10 an update from liquorix and it keep retrying to install itself everytime I install an application or update. How can I can I fix this? Thanks
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• 1375[17:48:30] <oxek> greycat: thanks for trying to help anyway. I'll be trying to make this work for the next hour or so, so if anyone has any input I'll see it here
• 1376[17:48:39] <b1ackandwh1te> man, shells completion is such a bless. when i enter in /bin/sh i enter in despair, heh.
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• 1397[18:04:33] <oxek> looking at the difference between replaced-url
• 1398[18:05:03] <oxek> and the README.Debian in the newer version suggests sourcing the completion files manually in .bashrc
• 1399[18:05:20] <oxek> so it looks like it is another case of broken package in stable, working package in testing
• 1400[18:05:21] <somiaj> Fox: testing is more than that, testing has its issues, but packages only transition into testing provided they can be installed (dependencies are met) and don't have any know rc bugs. Also testing is not bad for desktops and users who want to participate in the development of debian.
• 1401[18:05:34] *** Quits: sixtysix (~sixtysix@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 1402[18:05:54] <oxek> ,v checkbackports fzf
• 1403[18:05:56] <judd> No package named 'checkbackports' was found in amd64.
• 1404[18:06:01] <oxek> ,checkbackports fzf
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• 1406[18:06:41] <oxek> ok judd tells me it can be easily backported to stable, so I think I'll try that
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• 1408[18:11:43] <annadane> ,checkbackport fzf
• 1409[18:11:44] <judd> Backporting package fzf in sid→buster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 11).
• 1410[18:11:52] <annadane> so "no, it can't"
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• 1412[18:12:13] <annadane> ,checkbackport fzf --fromrelease bullseye --torelease buster
• 1413[18:12:14] <oxek> annadane: I thought I can ignore debhelper-compat
• 1414[18:12:14] <judd> Backporting package fzf in bullseye→buster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 11).
• 1415[18:12:20] <annadane> unsure
• 1416[18:12:24] <annadane> if you can or not
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• 1426[18:19:35] <mutantturkey> is there a way to confirm what pam modules are loading from a session
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• 1428[18:21:28] <mutantturkey> i have 'session required pam_loginuid.so"session required pam_loginuid.so" set in my pam sshd file, however audit reports my loginid (auid in the ausearch results) as -1
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• 1431[18:24:21] <mutantturkey> verified by cat /proc/self/loginuid being set to -1 as well
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• 1442[18:29:33] <greycat> if you login a second time, does that guy get -2? and then -3 and so on?
• 1443[18:29:45] <mutantturkey> no
• 1444[18:30:02] <mutantturkey> it's actually set to '4294967295' because it's a signed int
• 1445[18:30:16] <mutantturkey> manual says that means it's unset
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• 1447[18:32:22] <mutantturkey> is there a way to er. restart pam?
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• 1449[18:32:42] <greycat> you would restart sshd in this case
• 1450[18:32:58] <mutantturkey> because it uses the pam to determine auth stuff got it
• 1451[18:33:12] <mutantturkey> alright I just restarted it. now let me login and give it another go
• 1452[18:33:12] <oxek> I added 'deb-src replaced-url
• 1453[18:33:21] <oxek> but 0.17.5-2 is the wrong version
• 1454[18:33:25] <oxek> it should be the version in sid instead
• 1455[18:33:28] <oxek> what am I doing wrong?
• 1456[18:33:45] <mutantturkey> oxek: try apt-cache policy fzf
• 1457[18:34:06] <mutantturkey> should show you candidates and sources
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• 1459[18:34:33] <oxek> mutantturkey: replaced-url
• 1460[18:34:44] <oxek> I did do `apt update` after editing my sources.list
• 1461[18:35:06] <greycat> sid is not testing, for one thing
• 1462[18:35:32] <oxek> greycat: ok yeah I pasted wrong line, it is sid in my sources.list
• 1463[18:36:06] <oxek> i.e. this is in my souces.list "deb-src replaced-url
• 1464[18:36:08] <mutantturkey> greycat: yeah it's still reporting -1
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• 1472[18:42:16] <oxek> this is just weird behavior, I can't get apt to see the source package
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• 1485[18:50:47] <oxek> even when I pick a package that only exists in sid, such as replaced-url
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• 1488[18:51:50] <greycat> !ssb
• 1489[18:51:50] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
• 1490[18:52:00] <greycat> it just says "apt -b source pkgname" there, no 'sid'
• 1491[18:52:15] <oxek> greycat: when I do that, it fetches the source from stable not sid
• 1492[18:53:15] <sney> this is a regression that happened in apt when nobody was looking. comment out the buster deb-src for now and it'll work
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• 1499[18:57:55] <oxek> sney: still the same issue
• 1500[18:58:00] <oxek> this is my sources.list now replaced-url
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• 1502[18:58:15] <greycat> and you ran "apt-get update"?
• 1503[18:58:20] <oxek> yes
• 1504[18:58:29] <oxek> apt edit-sources even prompted me to run apt update
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• 1506[18:58:50] <HyP3r> Heyho. I have connected (over HDMI) a Display to my mini computer. I'm running the latest Debian 10 edition. When I now turn off the Display (disconnect from the AC) and then turn it on again. The resoultion is set to 800x600. Why?
• 1507[18:59:01] <HyP3r> I have no clue why, and also have no clue who I should ask
• 1508[18:59:04] <oxek> when I do `apt -b source fzf` or `apt -b source fzf/sid` now I still get: E: Can not find version '0.17.5-2' of package 'fzf'
• 1509[18:59:12] <oxek> E: Unable to find a source package for fzf
• 1510[18:59:12] <greycat> ,v fzf
• 1511[18:59:13] <judd> Package: fzf on amd64 -- stretch-backports: 0.17.5-2~bpo9+1; buster: 0.17.5-2+b10; bullseye: 0.20.0-1; sid: 0.20.0-1
• 1512[18:59:33] <HyP3r> The display resolution should keep be 1920x1080
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• 1514[19:01:24] <oxek> ok, problem solved. I had to remove every single line from sources.list except the sid deb-src
• 1515[19:01:32] <HyP3r> When I restart the dm (lightdm) the resolution is ok
• 1516[19:01:48] <oxek> and I had to get rid of APT::Default-Release "buster"; in my apt config
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• 1521[19:04:30] <oxek> sney: are you saying this is a known bug already?
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• 1548[19:26:38] <oxek> I also think that judd is wrong with the "Backporting package fzf in sid→buster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 11)." statement
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• 1550[19:27:00] <sney> both of those are known issues
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• 1552[19:27:43] <sney> if debhelper-compat is the only build dependency that judd lists, then that means you can proceed with the backport
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• 1554[19:28:32] <oxek> is there anything I, as simple user of debian, can do to help solve these known issues?
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• 1556[19:29:59] <sney> probably not those ones, but that's still a good attitude to have
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• 1558[19:31:00] <sney> dpkg: how can i help
• 1559[19:31:00] <dpkg> Want to help out with Debian and become more involved in the Debian project? The tools wnpp-alert, rc-alert (both from the devscripts package) and how-can-i-help can provide inspiration on buggy or unmaintained packages that you have installed on your system. Ask me about <wnpp>, <rc-alert>, <devscripts>, <new maintainer guide>. replaced-url
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• 1562[19:32:23] <oxek> sney: thanks
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• 1565[19:34:38] <mutantturkey> step 1) put your left foot in
• 1566[19:34:51] <mutantturkey> step 2) fucking use pam.d
• 1567[19:35:16] <r3> 3) shake it all about ?
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• 1594[19:45:10] <mutantturkey> r3: put your head between your legs and kiss your butt goodbye
• 1595[19:45:10] <mutantturkey> lol
• 1596[19:46:03] <mutantturkey> so if I am understanding PAM, sshd uses pam as a library reads /etc/pam.d/ssh and uses information there to determine how to authenticate and other libs
• 1597[19:46:14] <mutantturkey> which is why i am having a hard time understanidng why loginuid not working
• 1598[19:46:22] <greycat> (assuming UsePAM is set in sshd_config)
• 1599[19:46:29] <mutantturkey> greycat: good tip!
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• 1602[19:46:47] <mutantturkey> I do not see that set!
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• 1605[19:48:30] <greycat> replaced-url
• 1606[19:49:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1310
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• 1612[19:54:40] <mutantturkey> greycat: it works
• 1613[19:54:40] <mutantturkey> amen
• 1614[19:55:01] <b1ackandwh1te> is snap available in debian buster repositories?
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• 1619[19:55:54] <b1ackandwh1te> ubuntu snap
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• 1622[19:57:18] <miskatonic> what was the syntax for getting judd list the versions of packages in releases?
• 1623[19:57:37] <mutantturkey> bliv: snapd - Daemon and tooling that enable snap packages
• 1624[19:59:30] <b1ackandwh1te> may be a silly question, but ubuntu adopted and you dont...
• 1625[19:59:37] <greycat> ,v bash
• 1626[19:59:38] <judd> Package: bash on amd64 -- jessie: 4.3-11+deb8u1; jessie-security: 4.3-11+deb8u2; stretch: 4.4-5; buster: 5.0-4; bullseye: 5.0-6; sid: 5.0-6
• 1627[19:59:50] <mutantturkey> b1ackandwh1te: thats not a question
• 1628[20:00:04] <b1ackandwh1te> :/
• 1629[20:00:12] <mutantturkey> snap works just fine on debian, i am using it for some packages that don't work quuite right without it
• 1630[20:01:28] <b1ackandwh1te> ok
• 1631[20:01:33] <miskatonic> ,v snap
• 1632[20:01:34] <judd> Package: snap on amd64 -- jessie: 2013-11-29-1; stretch: 2013-11-29-6; bullseye: 2013-11-29-9; buster: 2013-11-29-9; sid: 2013-11-29-9
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• 1657[20:22:03] <mutantturkey> sweet, loginuid works now
• 1658[20:22:09] <mutantturkey> except, well, it's not carried across su and sudo
• 1659[20:22:11] <mutantturkey> so a bit more config
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• 1662[20:26:36] <greycat> su and sudo should explicitly *not* be configured to use pam_loginuid ... it says so right in the docs
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• 1664[20:31:07] <mutantturkey> " You should not use
• 1665[20:31:07] <mutantturkey> it for applications like sudo or su as that defeats the purpose by
• 1666[20:31:07] <mutantturkey> changing the loginuid to the account they just switched to.
• 1667[20:31:07] <mutantturkey> "
• 1668[20:31:08] <mutantturkey> yeah
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• 1672[20:33:44] <dvs> debhelper disagrees
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• 1679[20:38:04] <sudomake> hello, how can I upgrade to 10.4. ?
• 1680[20:38:13] <sudomake> from 10.3.
• 1681[20:38:24] <antto> why doesn't apt/synaptic kinda roughly check whether you have enough free space before doing stuff?
• 1682[20:38:26] <greycat> If you're already running buster, and have a valid sources.list, just "apt update" and "apt upgrade".
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• 1686[20:40:26] <sudomake> I am getting disconnected every few minutes. I found out that the problem has been known for several years. is there also any known fix to it?
• 1687[20:40:43] <sudomake> I found none
• 1688[20:41:32] <jmcnaught> People here can probably help if you provide more details.
• 1689[20:42:05] <sudomake> I have 10.3., as I wrote, and am using network-manager.
• 1690[20:42:15] <sudomake> what else would be of help?
• 1691[20:42:54] *** Quits: Deano59 (~Deano59@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 1692[20:42:58] <jmcnaught> Wired or wireless? Do you get an error message? Does it happen on all access points? Log messages from when it happens.
• 1693[20:43:26] <sudomake> wifi, no errors, on all access points...you mean syslog?
• 1694[20:44:58] <jmcnaught> Yeah, or journalctl. You can see the last 2 minutes of the journal with "journalctl --since=-2min" (works for other values too) or watch the journal in real-time with "journalctl -f"
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• 1726[21:14:24] <sudomake> jmcnaught, sorry for the pause. It tooka while. this is the paste for an half-hour period: replaced-url
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• 1728[21:14:50] <sudomake> and this is a 10 minute-period in which I was disconnected, as you may have witnessed here; replaced-url
• 1729[21:15:21] <sudomake> I was disconnected at [18:58:24]
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• 1734[21:17:29] <keropok> !!
• 1735[21:17:29] <dpkg> I'm not your csh prompt!
• 1736[21:17:45] <keropok> sorry :P
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• 1767[21:47:24] <bguebert> I've been using ntpd for a while now, but now it looks like chronyd is a competitor, which one works best on debian?
• 1768[21:47:50] <greycat> I assume they are both extremely well tested, because they're both quite popular.
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• 1770[21:48:59] <bguebert> ok, I might stick with ntpd for now, seems like chronyd might be better for virtual installs
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• 1773[21:51:27] <bguebert> I didn't think to check popularity, thanks for the tip
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• 1776[21:55:33] <ratrace> bguebert: there's also openntpd if you want some openbsd juice
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• 1780[21:56:48] <r3> bguebert: please ask in #ntp where folks would be happy to chat to you about chrony vs. ntpd
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• 1785[21:59:51] <jmcnaught> buster will run systemd-timesyncd if ntpd, chrony, openntpd are not installed
• 1786[22:00:31] <bguebert> I need something that serves time to other computers though
• 1787[22:00:49] <bguebert> I will check over at #ntp, thanks for you help
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• 1799[22:08:07] <sudomake> jmcnaught, could you have a chance to see my outputs? I pasted them a while later, sorry
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• 1801[22:10:49] <jmcnaught> sudomake: I didn't see anything, especially not at the timestamp you indicated. What happens when it disconnects? UFW seems to be blocking something, I don't now if that would be related.
• 1802[22:12:44] <sudomake> jmcnaught, nothing happens really, it disconnects and reconnects.
• 1803[22:13:10] <jmcnaught> Does the network icon change?
• 1804[22:13:21] <sudomake> jmcnaught, no
• 1805[22:13:44] <jmcnaught> How do you know it is disconnected?
• 1806[22:13:45] <sudomake> and the problem occurs with ethernet connection, too, btw
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• 1809[22:14:39] <sudomake> the same way you know it, for ex. here. I see that I disconnect and reconnect
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• 1811[22:15:17] <r3> is it the actual network or just IRC?
• 1812[22:15:23] <sudomake> also the web pages do not open in browser
• 1813[22:15:30] <r3> ah, nevermind
• 1814[22:15:55] <sudomake> and it happens only on this device on my wifi
• 1815[22:15:58] <sudomake> or ethernet
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• 1817[22:15:59] <greycat> Do other computers on your network *also* experience errors? Or just the Debian computer?
• 1818[22:16:09] <sudomake> as I said, just this device
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• 1820[22:16:37] <greycat> So look for errors in log files, and run commands like "ip a" to see what's happening.
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• 1822[22:17:12] <sudomake> I posted log outputs, jmcnaught just viewed them
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• 1825[22:18:52] <sudomake> jmcnaught, should I post the syslog output as well, if it can tell anything additionally?
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• 1832[22:26:10] <sudomake> thank you, nevermind, I have to leave
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• 1862[22:51:59] <rander2> hello
• 1863[22:52:29] <rander2> anyone here know because installing android x86 it start in trext mode with the shell ?
• 1864[22:53:12] <sney> this is #debian, are you sure you don't want #android?
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• 1866[22:55:41] <annadane> debian? this isn't #toymodelships?!?
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• 1882[23:00:38] <domovoy> hi
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• 1885[23:01:37] <domovoy> i have troubles finding the right keymap for a lenovo thinkpad t430, any advice on how to create a custom keymap?
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• 1888[23:03:06] <sney> thinkpads are basically the most standard laptop you can get, but if your keyboard is from a less common locale it could still be iffy, I guess? check thinkwiki.org
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• 1891[23:05:20] <sney> this seems to cover xkb pretty well too. replaced-url
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• 1893[23:05:46] <sney> domovoy: ^
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• 1901[23:14:51] <domovoy> sney: lot of work for simply saying "this kay does this this character" :/ anyway, if it's the only way...
• 1902[23:17:10] <sney> it gets more complicated the second you get into shift/meta keys, never mind all of the alt-gr stuff. if it was truly one button per character we'd have around a hundred thousand buttons for every currently used utf-8 code point
• 1903[23:17:24] <sney> but, feel free to invent something simpler
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• 1905[23:18:02] <EdePopede> even altgr is just one of the iirc 8 possible modifier keys. Compose is the real monster.
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• 1907[23:19:01] <sney> I knew there was one I was forgetting.
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• 1909[23:20:16] <domovoy> sney: nevermind, just found out it is a belgian layout, not a french ^^ never saw that one
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• 1911[23:20:30] <domovoy> though begian was the same as french
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• 1916[23:28:31] <shibboleth> can "screen" run in a loop, that is restart the command on error?
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• 1933[23:42:50] <r3> not sure about screen, but maybe a bash script? [ replaced-url
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• 1935[23:43:57] <r3> that article makes a good point about "you need the process that monitors your process to be the process' parent."
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• 1938[23:45:05] <greycat> You can run while true; do mything; done inside a shell inside screen. That would be simple.
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• 1949[23:48:19] <r3> yup, that's what that article says to do - the reason I posted it is because I had it bookmarked as I was looking for a similar idea about a test process here :) Works great
• 1950[23:49:02] <greycat> replaced-url
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