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• 5[00:00:58] <B|ack0p> :p
• 6[00:01:04] <B|ack0p> which is your other system Ede|Popede ?
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• 13[00:05:21] <Ede|Popede> B|ack0p: a used lenovo. thinkcentre 82. typical office machine. meant to run windows and office and explorer.
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• 17[00:07:38] <B|ack0p> Ede|Popede: cool. i am ThinkFan :p
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• 21[00:08:21] <B|ack0p> i used thinkcentre at office. i have thinkpads but one day i wanna buy thinkcentre too
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• 24[00:09:41] <Ede|Popede> around 100 bucks, including win10home. official license, so why not. upgraded to 8GB, runs fine. only that it doesn't find anything to boot with just the debian disk in it.
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• 27[00:10:29] <Ede|Popede> even with the 4GB it had at the beginning it was way faster than this machine with only 2, so yes, enough RAM is crucial.
• 28[00:10:43] <B|ack0p> Ede|Popede: which model of tcentre?
• 29[00:11:10] <Ede|Popede> M82 though i'm not sure if there's only a single variant of it
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• 31[00:11:28] <B|ack0p> hmm
• 32[00:11:53] <B|ack0p> toolless opening right?
• 33[00:12:16] <B|ack0p> small size but not tiny
• 34[00:12:43] <Ede|Popede> yep, both sides. and some carriage for the HDDs (so if you get one, remember to get some more of them for later)
• 35[00:12:48] <Mazhive> towo' thank you for your assistance i figured it out to have it working again ... i recompiled it and uninstalled the compiled version with make uninstall
• 36[00:13:10] <B|ack0p> yep
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• 47[00:21:12] <un214> how do I set an interrupt key for systemd timeouts?
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• 49[00:21:43] <un214> it wants to wait for many minutes for things that are clearly never going to come up if they didn't come up in the first two seconds
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• 53[00:24:39] <Boodie> Hi guys, I am with stretch; I need to upgrade to buster, are there any instructions?
• 54[00:24:47] <joepublic> is there a good, purpose-built app in debian for recording video capture? VLC doesn't see the audio and webcamoid is cumbersome
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• 56[00:26:03] <un214> change stretch to jessie in /etc/apt/sources.list and update
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• 58[00:26:15] <karlpinc> !release notes
• 59[00:26:15] <dpkg> The release notes for Debian 10 "Buster" are at replaced-url
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• 61[00:26:20] <joepublic> to jessie?
• 62[00:26:23] <karlpinc> !stretch->buster
• 63[00:26:30] <un214> sloppy of me :( should be buster
• 64[00:26:54] <karlpinc> Boodie: You must upgrade a release at a time, from one to the next.
• 65[00:27:12] <karlpinc> Boodie: Follow the instructions in the release notes.
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• 67[00:27:33] <Boodie> I might be with jessie, apologies ... how do I check?
• 68[00:27:38] <karlpinc> Boodie: Do _not_ try to upgrade and skip releases.
• 69[00:27:45] <karlpinc> Boodie: cat /etc/debian_version
• 70[00:27:49] <un214> see /etc/apt/sources.list
• 71[00:28:07] <Boodie> 9.11
• 72[00:28:11] <joepublic> I don't think there are many released between stretch and buster.
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• 76[00:28:30] <karlpinc> Boodie: You are on stretch. So follow the buster release note instructions.
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• 78[00:28:34] <un214> there aren't any
• 79[00:29:16] * karlpinc happens to be upgrading stretch boxes to buster just now
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• 81[00:30:21] <Boodie> Has anyone upgraded successfully?
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• 83[00:30:37] <karlpinc> Boodie: Lots and lots.
• 84[00:30:41] <Ede|Popede> i've heard of someone succeeding
• 85[00:30:43] <joepublic> upgrading successfully is the norm.
• 86[00:31:01] <karlpinc> Boodie: _If_ you follow the instructions.
• 87[00:31:03] <Boodie> So the upgrade works
• 88[00:31:15] <Boodie> Excellent
• 89[00:31:39] <karlpinc> Boodie: Basically, anything non-debian should (probably) be removed and then re-installed after upgrading. (That's one of the things the instructions say.)
• 90[00:32:08] <Boodie> all the packages non-free?
• 91[00:32:23] <karlpinc> Boodie: Upgrading is the big test on how well you have administered your system.
• 92[00:32:35] <karlpinc> Boodie: Non-free packages are fine. So long as they come from the debian repos.
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• 95[00:34:48] <Boodie> I basically have nothing installed other than from the repositories in sources.list
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• 97[00:35:56] <karlpinc> Boodie: Perfect.
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• 100[00:35:57] <Boodie> Or, nothing that I can remember installing, in general all my experiments of packages installed from source failed, so I gave up
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• 102[00:36:28] <karlpinc> Boodie: (There's a tl;dr version that the dpkg bot has, but it does not seem to be displaying it now. :( )
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• 107[00:37:24] <Boodie> Is there a way to identify if there is anything alien in the system? I think that it's probably diffcult
• 108[00:37:33] <karlpinc> Boodie: The upgrade instructions go on forever, and cover all the contingencies. You basically need only a few commands. Usually. But when you don't it's really good to have read the instructions.
• 109[00:37:43] *** Quits: melpy (~melpy@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 110[00:37:50] <karlpinc> Boodie: See the instructions. It has a method.
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• 113[00:38:30] <Boodie> So, if I type "/msg dpkg stretch->buster" I should be given the guide;
• 114[00:38:45] <karlpinc> Boodie: (Unless you've done "make ; make install". There are better ways. See the "don't break debian" page at wiki.debian.org.)
• 115[00:38:59] <karlpinc> Boodie: Supposedly.
• 116[00:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1421
• 117[00:39:19] <karlpinc> Boodie: That's the super-short version. Better to skim the long version with all the warnings and suggestions.
• 118[00:40:00] <karlpinc> Boodie: Like I said, the bot didn't respond to me on that factoid.
• 119[00:40:22] <karlpinc> !release notes
• 120[00:40:22] <dpkg> The release notes for Debian 10 "Buster" are at replaced-url
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• 122[00:44:02] <Boodie> How long does it take (approx), I have a pretty recent machine?
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• 124[00:44:26] <karlpinc> Boodie: It's mostly download time.
• 125[00:45:08] <karlpinc> Boodie: It always takes me way longer than I think it will. I make sure I have a backup. I actually read the instructions (again). And so forth.
• 126[00:45:42] <Boodie> The last time I did an upgrade it was probably to Jessie a while ago and I ended up without the graphic interface, so I struggled a bit
• 127[00:46:04] <Boodie> As I am not so proficient with the command line
• 128[00:46:31] <karlpinc> Boodie: There's occasional cases where apt-listchanges tells me that something has changed and I need to adjust a config file somewhere. Or maybe I'm using a package and the release notes tell me that there's a major upgrade and it needs work, etc.
• 129[00:48:01] <karlpinc> Boodie: Commands can be cut-and-paste from the instructions.
• 130[00:48:01] <karlpinc> (That's what I do.)
• 131[00:48:03] <karlpinc> It is possible that there's a period during the upgrade where X stops working. So I like to upgrade from a vt.
• 132[00:48:04] <karlpinc> !vt
• 133[00:48:04] <dpkg> vt is, like, Virtual Terminal, like the console; change VTs using Alt+Left/Right or Alt+F1, Alt+F2 etc. To get from X to a VT, use Ctrl+Alt+F1 (and Alt+F7 to get back, most likely). You can also use "chvt" to switch VT. VT is also used to mean Intel VT-x or VT-d (virtualization support; the AMD counterpart is called AMD-V or Pacifica), ask me about <xve>.
• 134[00:48:13] *** Quits: crayon (~crayon@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 135[00:48:38] <karlpinc> (The 3 or so actual commands that upgrade.)
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• 137[00:49:34] <un214> I'm planning to upgrade my system to systemd to see if it's still completely hosed
• 138[00:49:43] <karlpinc> Boodie: It is always possible that you'll need to edit something to get X working again. (Not likely, but if you're using proprietary graphic drivers than that's a complication.)
• 139[00:50:09] <karlpinc> un214: Give up. The hozed is built-in.
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• 141[00:50:35] <un214> what do you run for init karlpinc?
• 142[00:50:39] *** Joins: melpy (~melpy@replaced-ip)
• 143[00:50:40] <karlpinc> Boodie: Anyway, it helps to be able to use an editor that does not rely on the gui. You can always used nano.
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• 145[00:50:59] <karlpinc> un214: I gave up and went to systemd. It's just what's happening on linux.
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• 148[00:51:27] <un214> so the question to find out is whether it's still utterly incompatible with my raid driver
• 149[00:51:42] <karlpinc> un214: I still can't do things like reboot with a fsck without editing the kernel's command line from the bootloader. But that's life.
• 150[00:52:23] <un214> I'm seriously plotting making a package that does dpkg-divert for some pieces of systemd and completely hijacks early boot
• 151[00:52:24] <karlpinc> un214: I stay away from hardware raid. Unless I have a spare identical controller. Otherwise if the controller fries my data's gone.
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• 154[00:52:57] <un214> lol man I've checked this; all I have to do is take the disks out and set them up on any arbitrary PC and I can read them
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• 156[00:53:21] <karlpinc> un214: Jolly good. Best to test!
• 157[00:53:23] <Boodie> Ok thanks for the hints: I'll try tomorrow!
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• 160[00:54:18] <karlpinc> un214: You're sure it's real hardware raid, and not just proprietary software raid done with a driver?
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• 163[00:55:03] <un214> it's smart enough to keep track of which side of the mirror is fresher on power loss--software raid can't do that
• 164[00:55:03] <karlpinc> un214: Otherwise may as well just use software raid. (Which also "just works", and has raid, when you plug it into an arbitrary PC. :-)
• 165[00:55:34] <karlpinc> un214: Nice. (I suppose it _could.... I haven't kept up.)
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• 167[00:56:11] <un214> saved my behind when grub2 auto-installed itself and enabled UUID probe and caused the kernel to bypass the RAID and write to one side
• 168[00:56:17] <un214> it knew which side it was
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• 170[00:58:11] <un214> hardware raid has the advantage of storing consistency info in NVRAM
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• 193[01:14:14] <un214> Yup systemd still boots to an essentially broken ssytem
• 194[01:14:37] <un214> nothing but / is mounted and X is mad about something I don't understand
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• 216[01:30:13] <un214> how do I clear pam-nologin ?
• 217[01:30:53] <un214> I need to bring X up so I can start firefox and research an actual solution to my problem rather than just back out systemd
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• 223[01:32:50] <lavaflow> is it feasible to convert a frankendebian install into a proper Sid install?
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• 225[01:35:02] <dvs> nope
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• 227[01:35:29] <un214> what's a frankendebian?
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• 229[01:35:40] <lavaflow> mix of stable and unstable packages.
• 230[01:35:41] <dvs> !frankendebian
• 231[01:35:41] <dpkg> When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about <reinstall>
• 232[01:36:50] <un214> well assuming they're all debian rather than debian and derived, it can be done only because sid was requested
• 233[01:36:57] <un214> if any are derived, nope
• 234[01:37:59] <lavaflow> I only have packages from buster or sid right now. I installed wireguard from sid and then things got out of hand I guess.
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• 236[01:38:21] <lavaflow> I think I'm going to attempt a dist-upgrade.. worse case I have to reinstall anyway right
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• 241[01:39:51] <dvs> a dist-upgrade to what?
• 242[01:40:22] <lavaflow> sid I guess? I'm not sure.
• 243[01:40:32] <un214> ah yeah; that can be done; apt-get dist-upgrade with only sid will correct a mix of sid and buster
• 244[01:40:49] <lavaflow> that's what I'm hoping
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• 248[01:42:11] <un214> finally figured out I could start X as root and use xhost + and su start firefox as my normal user
• 249[01:42:20] <un214> apt-get install systemd-sysv sure made a mess
• 250[01:43:02] <un214> !bug 947806
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• 286[02:06:33] <festerjester> Hello all. I am attempting to perform a netinstall to an f2fs filesystem. Anyone have any resources or help?
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• 289[02:09:36] <karlpinc> festerjester: You can always mkfs (or whatever) in a vt in the installer, and then go back to the installer menus. (the menus are more detailed in expert mode)
• 290[02:09:41] <karlpinc> !firmware images
• 291[02:09:42] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from replaced-url
• 292[02:10:00] <karlpinc> It also helps to have firmware in the installer, should you need it to make the hardware work.
• 293[02:10:06] <karlpinc> !vt
• 294[02:10:06] <dpkg> somebody said vt was Virtual Terminal, like the console; change VTs using Alt+Left/Right or Alt+F1, Alt+F2 etc. To get from X to a VT, use Ctrl+Alt+F1 (and Alt+F7 to get back, most likely). You can also use "chvt" to switch VT. VT is also used to mean Intel VT-x or VT-d (virtualization support; the AMD counterpart is called AMD-V or Pacifica), ask me about <xve>.
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• 296[02:11:10] <festerjester> So, I tried dropping to a terminal from the installer menu, but was unable to mkfs.f2fs or figure out how to apt install f2fs-tools
• 297[02:11:39] <festerjester> As a matter of fact, it appears apt is not available in the netinstall CD
• 298[02:12:23] <ksk> it is, but not in the environment the initial shell drops you into
• 299[02:12:31] <ksk> mhhm, not sure where it is though, /target maybe?
• 300[02:12:44] <ksk> you will need to chroot into that, else you only have busybox
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• 306[02:16:03] <festerjester> Booting netinstall iso now to try some of this out. ;-D
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• 308[02:19:11] <festerjester> Nope. There is no /target
• 309[02:19:27] <ksk> festerjester: something in "mount" speaks out to you? ;)
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• 312[02:21:55] <un214> two systemd bugs field; completely stupid /sbin/init used for early booting
• 313[02:22:01] <festerjester> so /dev/sr0 is mounted as /cdrom
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• 315[02:22:09] <festerjester> but not sure that is useful
• 316[02:22:25] <ksk> festerjester: nah, there should be something else..
• 317[02:22:34] <ksk> /mnt/target maybe? :P
• 318[02:23:22] <festerjester> Nope, /mnt and /media are both empty
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• 320[02:23:52] <festerjester> I should note, I am booting debian-10.2.0-amd64-netinst.iso
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• 325[02:26:58] <ksk> festerjester: okay, reading replaced-url
• 326[02:27:18] <ksk> if you are familiar with chroot, creating partitions, debootstrap and grub-install, you can of course do it yourself ;)
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• 329[02:27:51] <ksk> basicly: boot some debian. create partitions. debootstrap base system. mount /dev /sys /proc /whatnot, chroot to debootstrapped system. install grub -> reboot
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• 334[02:30:55] <festerjester> Ok, so very similar to how I built my last install. Basic install, copy root filesystem to a backup location, format root as f2fs, copy root filesystem back, and edit fstab/grub/initrd.
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• 339[02:31:29] <ksk> if you use debootstrap you can cut copying around the file tree
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• 341[02:31:46] <ksk> !debootstrap
• 342[02:31:46] <dpkg> debootstrap can create a basic Debian system from scratch, without apt/dpkg. Useful for installing in a <chroot>. It is key to installing Debian GNU/Linux from a Unix/Linux system, ask me about <install guide>. replaced-url
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• 344[02:31:52] <festerjester> Well there's more steps, but that's the idea. I was hoping there was a way of installing the f2fs-tools in the installer.
• 345[02:32:01] <festerjester> I never thought of debootstrap
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• 350[02:35:26] <festerjester> Thanks for the help and resources. I shall go learn about debootstrap
• 351[02:35:49] <ksk> !next
• 352[02:35:49] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
• 353[02:36:55] <festerjester> !thanks
• 354[02:36:55] <dpkg> de rien, festerjester
• 355[02:37:10] <ksk> chrchr, did not know that one ;)
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• 380[02:53:02] <festerjester> ksk: Is there a list of those ! things somewhere?
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• 387[02:54:04] <ksk> somewhere, yes )
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• 390[02:55:01] <festerjester> I just realized that ! thanks says You're welcome in french
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• 392[02:56:03] <ksk> /msg dpkg listkeys should give you the triggers
• 393[02:56:25] <ksk> mhhm, not^^
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• 399[02:59:29] <ksk> replaced-url
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• 401[03:01:35] <festerjester> Cool, thanks!
• 402[03:02:09] <festerjester> .*?
• 403[03:02:22] <festerjester> Meh
• 404[03:02:38] <ksk> I could not get it to show me all faqtoids, even though it states to use "*"
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• 406[03:02:58] <festerjester> !please
• 407[03:02:58] <dpkg> Do I look like an information bitch, festerjester?
• 408[03:03:04] <festerjester> OMG!
• 409[03:03:06] <dvs> heh
• 410[03:03:22] <ksk> replaced-url
• 411[03:04:08] <ksk> !are you a liar
• 412[03:04:08] <dpkg> I always lie! I'm lying right now!!
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• 414[03:04:43] <festerjester> !last
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• 417[03:08:21] <bzed> ksk: 3c509 … are you sure the statistics are uptodate? I'd guess people asked for that in 2002 :)
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• 419[03:08:58] <bzed> I had a bunch of these cards. unlimited warranty. Wondering if you can still RMA them..
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• 422[03:10:00] <bzed> ksk: some of the replies are... well... don't let the CoC people know.
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• 425[03:10:36] <ksk> bzed: I can only be held accountable for pasting the link in here - not for the FAQs or the bot itself.. :P
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• 429[03:11:23] <ksk> but yeah agreed. I suppose these ones just will not get triggered in here regularly anyway. and as with any database, it can only grow in size :)
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• 435[03:12:59] <un214> "failed to open system journal no medium found"
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• 441[03:19:35] <un214> How do I stop systemd from trying to check filesystems? They're already *mounted* it shouldn't be trying
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• 445[03:20:22] <ksk> un214: does it perform filesystem checks?
• 446[03:20:33] <r3ply`> hello, is there a debian desktop vs debian server? or all the same thing
• 447[03:20:55] <ksk> un214: replaced-url
• 448[03:21:05] <joepublic> for a server with no desktop, just don't install the desktop portions
• 449[03:21:22] <ksk> r3ply`: its the same. If you install a desktop (like GNOME, KDE), it will make your debian into a desktop
• 450[03:21:52] <r3ply`> ksk, thanks, i'm actually looking for version 9 minimal i belive
• 451[03:21:57] <r3ply`> thanks again!
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• 454[03:23:17] <un214> @ksk: that service doesn't exist on debian
• 455[03:23:59] <ksk> un214: my not-knowing of systemd doing filesystem checks on debian did trigger my first question - what makes you think systemd does start a filesystem check?
• 456[03:24:20] <un214> because it spams "checking filesystems" to the console
• 457[03:24:36] <ksk> if a volume is not clean (you just pulled the cable), it will get checked/repaired on the next boot
• 458[03:24:48] <ksk> also there is a timer (number of mounts iirc) which also triggers a check
• 459[03:24:55] <un214> followed by an e2fsck complaint about checking a mounted filesystem
• 460[03:25:15] <joepublic> yeah that's a pretty good sign of trying to check a filesystem.
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• 465[03:30:57] <CombatVet> so in order to take advantage of fstrim, you have to hard 'discard' in your fstab for X drive?
• 466[03:31:03] <CombatVet> have*
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• 468[03:31:53] <ksk> CombatVet: if that question is about "do I have to do something special to run debian on an ssd" - then no, you do not.
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• 470[03:33:38] <CombatVet> it's for trim support, did you read?
• 471[03:34:18] <ksk> reading replaced-url
• 472[03:35:05] <ksk> "/* devices that don't properly handle queued TRIM commands */" from replaced-url
• 473[03:35:37] <CombatVet> i'm literally on that site right now before you posted the link lul
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• 477[03:38:19] <CombatVet> so i'm assuming if the system didn't assign 'discard' by default, don't bother enabling it manually?
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• 479[03:38:45] <ksk> thats what I would say, yes. But it seems to be a difficult topic..
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• 481[03:41:01] <CombatVet> The "discard" options is not needed if your SSD has enough overprovisioning (spare space) or you leave (unpartitioned) free space on the SSD.
• 482[03:41:05] <CombatVet> case closed.
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• 485[03:41:42] <CombatVet> /dev/root ext4 221G 19G 193G 9% /
• 486[03:41:44] <CombatVet> fair enough
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• 488[03:42:21] <un214> gaaa! systemctl disable systemd-fsckd doesn't actually work
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• 498[03:49:35] <bertbob> there is a fstrim.service from util-linux, which runs once a week or something
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• 509[03:55:22] <un214> well, that's the third systemd bug today
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• 519[04:03:10] <un214> now that's a bug: replaced-url
• 520[04:04:25] <dvs> dpkg is slow to summarize that bu
• 521[04:04:25] <dpkg> dvs: I give up, what is it?
• 522[04:04:29] <dvs> g
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• 524[04:04:50] <un214> systemd tries to check mounted filesystems; fsck -A is smarter than that
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• 527[04:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1406
• 528[04:09:25] <un214> why the channel limit isn't just set to 10000 and forgotten I'll never know
• 529[04:10:06] <hatter_> I just upgraded a box to buster and I can't now mount a CIFS share : No dialect specified on mount. Default has changed to a more secure dialect, SMB2.1 or later (e.g. SMB3), from CIFS (SMB1). To use the less secure SMB1 dialect to access old servers which do not support SMB3 (or SMB2.1) specify vers=1.0 on mount.
• 530[04:10:08] <ksk> flood prevention I suppose. Most likely it was needed some point in the past.
• 531[04:10:19] <hatter_> I tried putting vers=2.1 however it didn't work
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• 533[04:10:42] <un214> possible you need vers=1.0 ?
• 534[04:11:12] <hatter_> un214, not that didn't work
• 535[04:11:19] <un214> :(
• 536[04:11:42] <un214> you can also try 2.0 but I don't think it's gonna be better
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• 539[04:16:01] <hatter_> no joy :(
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• 542[04:16:37] <un214> I'd be guessing now
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• 608[05:46:07] <JohnnyBitcoin> hello
• 609[05:46:45] <JohnnyBitcoin> I have mounts listed in fstab that are not mounting after a reboot
• 610[05:47:17] <JohnnyBitcoin> after each reboot, I must type mount -a to mount the network shares i have specified
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• 613[05:48:18] <JohnnyBitcoin> my fstab entry looks like this...
• 614[05:48:24] <JohnnyBitcoin> /servername/sharename /media/windowsshare cifs username=msusername,password=mspassword,iocharset=utf8,sec=ntlm 0 0
• 615[05:48:58] <JohnnyBitcoin> am i missing an option to have it auto mount?
• 616[05:50:03] <gw8x> need another slash on the start there // instead of /
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• 618[05:50:28] <JohnnyBitcoin> it's there. it just didnt make it in my copy paste
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• 620[05:52:35] <elios> '... cifs auto user...' ?
• 621[05:53:03] <JohnnyBitcoin> what do you mean?
• 622[05:53:19] <elios> what if you put 'auto' in there?
• 623[05:53:30] <JohnnyBitcoin> let me try
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• 625[05:55:50] <elios> can be separated with a comma as well i think
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• 629[05:59:01] <JohnnyBitcoin> nope. still same issue
• 630[05:59:13] <elios> s/auto user/auto,user/
• 631[06:00:38] <JohnnyBitcoin> Also, I can see the mount point in File Manager and when I click on it, i get an error saying "operation permitted for root only".
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• 633[06:00:58] <JohnnyBitcoin> but if i type sudo mount -a, all is fixed
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• 635[06:01:42] <JohnnyBitcoin> not sure where i went wrong here
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• 637[06:01:47] <elios> how about: rw,user,auto,... ?
• 638[06:02:10] <JohnnyBitcoin> lets see
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• 652[06:07:56] <JohnnyBitcoin> nope
• 653[06:07:59] <JohnnyBitcoin> same issue
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• 655[06:11:38] <elios> chown user:user /media/windowsshare
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• 661[06:19:44] <JohnnyBitcoin> nope
• 662[06:20:40] <elios> idk if you even need rw,user. chown changes the ownership for user:group of media/share
• 663[06:21:39] <JohnnyBitcoin> it's weird... If I type sudo mount -a it works
• 664[06:21:53] <JohnnyBitcoin> but it will not automount after a reboot
• 665[06:21:56] <JohnnyBitcoin> i dont get it
• 666[06:22:29] <JohnnyBitcoin> i thought the whole point of fstab was to auto mount
• 667[06:23:00] <elios> can you do 'mount /media/share' as user tho?
• 668[06:25:12] <JohnnyBitcoin> yes, that works finew
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• 671[06:27:03] <JohnnyBitcoin> at this point i think i'm just gonna nuke this box and use a different distro based on Buster
• 672[06:27:37] <jh001_> JohnnyBitcoin: I've had the same issue since systemd appeared. I do a @reboot cron - sleep 10 && mount -a
• 673[06:28:01] <jh001_> JohnnyBitcoin: lame but I'm over it
• 674[06:28:12] <JohnnyBitcoin> ha
• 675[06:28:20] <JohnnyBitcoin> seems so sloppy
• 676[06:28:34] <jh001_> JohnnyBitcoin: systemd
• 677[06:29:22] <jh001_> JohnnyBitcoin: assume its mount attempts are before the network is ready
• 678[06:30:50] <JohnnyBitcoin> I used the "_netdev" option in fstab and i was still having the same issue
• 679[06:31:06] <JohnnyBitcoin> _netdev is suppose to delay the mount until the network is up
• 680[06:31:34] <jh001_> JohnnyBitcoin: yup, I've tried all the fstab tricks as well, none have worked (for me)
• 681[06:31:44] <JohnnyBitcoin> pos
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• 683[06:34:50] <elios> not sure if you even need rw,user,auto
• 684[06:35:05] <JohnnyBitcoin> you shouldn't
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• 688[06:38:31] <elios> well at least you can mount it without the need of sudo or having root for now
• 689[06:38:35] <jh001_> JohnnyBitcoin: I should mention - I have these same issues on rhel7/centos. It's systemd.
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• 710[07:00:32] <orzo> i have a package that has the same name and version as a bullseye package which receives pin 500
• 711[07:00:37] <orzo> my locally built package is getting pin 501 as per my apt_preferences
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• 713[07:00:51] <orzo> but it is still downloading the bullseye package when i tell it to install
• 714[07:01:56] <orzo> I'm using local-apt-repository to maintain a local apt repository with packages i've built from source
• 715[07:02:20] <orzo> how do i tell apt to prfer those when the same name and version exists form another source?
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• 717[07:03:02] <orzo> i assumed that all other things equal, it would select the higher pin number
• 718[07:03:13] <orzo> but i guess that is not the case
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• 739[07:40:40] <hatter_> I just upgrade a stretch box to a buster box and KVM has an issue. Errors were encountered while processing:
• 740[07:40:40] <hatter_> libvirt-daemon-system
• 741[07:40:40] <hatter_> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
• 742[07:40:54] <hatter_> virtlogd.service: Job virtlogd.service/start failed with result 'dependency'.
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• 744[07:41:56] <hatter_> the upgrade also uninstalled bridge-utils
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• 834[09:39:02] <user> Hello, I have a VM with debian buster and the dhcpclient doesn't start automatically at boot time. Apparently there is no systemd services associeted to it. Do you know what is the proper way to fix that?
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• 844[09:49:03] <toruvinn> user, hmm.. im not sure, but dont you have something like `iface xxxx inet dhcp' in /etc/network/interfaces?
• 845[09:50:02] <user> toruvinn, yes, I've just modified this file, the interface name wasn't the good one, and "auto [device name]" was missing.
• 846[09:50:21] <user> Is this normal ?
• 847[09:51:51] <jim> kinda... the installer might set up your networking in the installer, but it might not too, and in that case, you'd have to set it up
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• 850[09:53:12] <jim> it's not as random as that sounded, it depends on what happened during installation I guess
• 851[09:53:25] <ratrace> there is no separate service for dhclient btw, it's managed by other software like interfaces(8), NM, or whatever else. systemd-networkd does its own dhcp if you're using networkd.
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• 853[09:54:53] <ratrace> I'm not sure but I think the installer doesn't set it up, iirc I had to set up my own interfaces file.
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• 856[09:56:44] <user> jim, ratrace So the cause could be that the dhcp was missing when I've connected the network card for the first time?
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• 861[09:58:47] <ratrace> user: I think the default is to install GNOME which uses NM, and if you're not installing GNOME, it is expected you know what you're doing and you'll choose the method of network management yourself.
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• 863[09:59:25] <user> ratrace, I didn't install any desktop environment.
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• 865[10:00:12] <ratrace> which probably explains why your NIC is not managed. btw, you said "interface name wasn't the good one", so which one was it? "lo"?
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• 869[10:01:06] <user> no, lo is the loopback
• 870[10:01:27] <ratrace> yea
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• 873[10:01:37] <user> there was something like "ens3", I'm not 100% sure by the way since I haven't saved the original file.
• 874[10:01:48] <ratrace> user: and the name now?
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• 877[10:02:12] <jim> user, did the install ever ask you to pick an interface to try to establish networking?
• 878[10:02:23] <Posterdati> hi
• 879[10:02:25] <user> ratrace, If my memory is correct : enp0s4
• 880[10:02:27] <jim> hi
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• 882[10:02:45] <jim> that sounds like an ethernet
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• 884[10:02:58] <Posterdati> please I've got problems with kwirc on debian 10, it randomly segfaults!
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• 886[10:03:34] <user> jim I don't remember that.
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• 888[10:04:27] <jim> Posterdati, to solve your immediate problem, try picking a different irc client
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• 893[10:05:15] <jim> user, oh, ok... so maybe what happened, is it couldn't see any network interfaces early in the installer
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• 895[10:05:35] <jim> user, what kind of machine is that?
• 896[10:05:54] <user> jim, it's a virtual machine.
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• 900[10:06:08] <ratrace> user: oh wait you said that's a VM? which hypervisor? thing with that is that udev picks the network name based on several hardware attributes, and VMs tend to throw a wrench in that
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• 903[10:06:24] <jim> oh, so likely what happened, is it couldn't see any real devices
• 904[10:06:29] <user> ratrace, the VM runs with qemu.
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• 906[10:06:41] <ratrace> is it possible you changed the network interface on the hypervisor side? switched from virtio to something else?
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• 908[10:06:54] <user> ratrace, yes it is highly possible.
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• 910[10:06:59] <ratrace> that would explain the name change
• 911[10:07:21] <user> Ok, that's good to know.
• 912[10:08:11] <ratrace> you could always force the old ethX naming so you don't get surprised like that.
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• 914[10:08:27] <jim> in a real install of a desktop, which usually has an ethernet, the installer will see it and ask you if you want to configure it
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• 918[10:09:18] <ratrace> jim: virtual NICs _are_ real devices to the installer and to the guest kernel. they don't care if it's virtio or some other driver used.
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• 920[10:09:33] <user> jim, then I guess it has happened during the installation process since I've been able to use the network to install the OS.
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• 923[10:11:21] <jim> in a laptop install, there might be an ethernet port, and whether or not there is one, there will more likely be a wireless... and, many wireless interfaces need firmware... so, there's an "unofficial" installer image that has a collection of firmware that might work... if it does, you're given an opportunity to set it up
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• 925[10:12:04] <ratrace> switch from ensX to enp0s4 suggests a switch from virtio to non-virtio based NIC to me
• 926[10:12:18] <jim> cal 2020 1
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• 928[10:12:31] <jim> sorry
• 929[10:13:18] <user> ratrace I was tweaking the network options, so you're probably right.
• 930[10:13:46] <ratrace> user: I'd highly suggest you use the virtio driver (which will switch the guest NIC name back to ens3)
• 931[10:14:19] <user> ratrace, Yes, that's what I'll end up to do.
• 932[10:14:33] <user> Thanks for the advice ;)
• 933[10:15:32] <Iridos> Mh. Have there been bigger changes to the apt cache system? From stretch->buster, I got E: Problem executing scripts APT::Update::Post-Invoke-Success 'if /usr/bin/test -w /var/cache/app-info -a -e /usr/bin/appstreamcli; then appstreamcli refresh-cache > /dev/null; fi'
• 934[10:15:50] <Iridos> appstreamcli??
• 935[10:16:09] <Iridos> apt-cache could do it no prob… but I've never seen that stuff
• 936[10:16:24] <ratrace> Iridos: that an amazon VM instance?
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• 940[10:17:39] <CombatVet> speaking of vms and nics, first time i setup lag (lacp) and its exciting to see it work
• 941[10:17:55] <CombatVet> didn't get a chance to experience it til i got the right hardware
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• 944[10:18:36] <ratrace> Iridos: ah nvm, I see Freedesktop has an AppStream thingy too... so that's probably it. First time I heard of _that_ appstream, lol
• 945[10:18:49] <CombatVet> the bonding part was a bit confusing at first
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• 949[10:21:22] <Iridos> ratrace, nono, just normal laptop
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• 952[10:22:00] <CombatVet> i was assigning a dedicated port for a vm in order to isolate it via vlan and it worked, but i was wondering if i could setup that vlan without using a dedicated port for that vm
• 953[10:22:17] <CombatVet> i know i can do it but does that mean the host has to be n that vlan too?
• 954[10:22:25] <CombatVet> or as long as the port is trunked?
• 955[10:22:40] <ratrace> Iridos: then that's probably this, but this is not default in Debian afaik: replaced-url
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• 957[10:26:59] <ratrace> Iridos: oh I see gnome-software depends on it, and plasma-discover, you run GNOME or KDE there?
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• 962[10:31:00] <HaMsTeRs> Hello everything, during my windows life, I used to create meeting notes in .txt format and store them by date in file name. so I have like millions of .txt files. I now moved to linux, and I'm thinking to use "git" to control my notes. Since I'm new to this, I'm looking for a GUI git client to easily control my notes. any suggestion? I only need to work on my notes offline.
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• 968[10:33:46] <Iridos> ratrace, hm, no. but so you sugest it's not needed by apt … it's just some gnome addon
• 969[10:34:22] <Iridos> hm, yeah, I seem to have gnome-software installed for some reason
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• 971[10:36:05] <user> ratrace, do you know what is the correct way to change the name of a network card?
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• 984[10:51:37] <user> For those who are interested, I've found this page which answered my question : replaced-url
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• 989[10:56:28] <user> It relies on systemd.link which is apparently the new recommended way to do it.
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• 994[10:59:49] <ratrace> user: you can also use the /etc/network/interfaces, check the interfaces(8) manpage, look up "rename"
• 995[11:00:13] <ratrace> user: I don't know if using networkd .link requires systemd-networkd to actually manage the network
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• 999[11:02:56] <ratrace> user: but if you're looking at switching back to ethX, wlanX naming scheme, then net.ifnames=0 in your kernel command line (via /etc/default/grub) is all you need (don't forget to update-grub)
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• 1006[11:05:16] <user> ratrace, Yes, I've seen that it's possible to switch back to the old naming.
• 1007[11:05:30] <user> I can't find "rename" in the man page of interfaces
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• 1009[11:06:46] <ratrace> user: eh, checked correct manapge? it's (5), not (8) as I mentioned a few times...
• 1010[11:06:47] <user> Btw, I only have interfaces(5) not (8)
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• 1012[11:07:01] <ratrace> yeah, I borked that one
• 1013[11:07:19] <ratrace> %s/as I/that I/
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• 1019[11:11:54] <user> ratrace, So this option doesn't exist right?
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• 1023[11:13:11] <ratrace> user: it exists, hit / to search, then type rename , then hit N a few times
• 1024[11:13:46] <user> I did it.
• 1025[11:14:17] <user> man interfaces | grep rename returns nothing
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• 1028[11:15:08] <ratrace> user: which debian is that?
• 1029[11:15:23] <user> 9
• 1030[11:15:44] <ratrace> huh... maybe it's a newer thing in buster then
• 1031[11:16:49] <Fox> it came up in buster yes
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• 1051[11:28:11] <user> ratrace, indeed it is present on debian 10.
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• 1053[11:28:46] <B|ack0p> hi
• 1054[11:29:02] <ratrace> ih
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• 1058[11:36:58] <Iridos> uuh. do I want the minissdp daemon to start at boot time
• 1059[11:37:06] <Iridos> why is buster asking me that stuff
• 1060[11:39:21] <Iridos> mmh udna and stuff
• 1061[11:39:28] <Iridos> dpkg minissdp
• 1062[11:39:28] <dpkg> Iridos: KCI error, or a problem with the Keyboard-Chair Interface.
• 1063[11:39:34] <Iridos> dpkg ssdp
• 1064[11:39:34] <dpkg> Iridos: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox?
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• 1067[11:40:17] <OS-60984> /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER OS-60984 aspdsawujsmv
• 1068[11:40:29] <ratrace> OS-60984: fail
• 1069[11:40:41] <ratrace> !info minissdp
• 1070[11:40:53] <ratrace> !info minissdpd
• 1071[11:40:55] <dpkg> minissdpd: (keep memory of all UPnP devices that announced themselves), section net, is optional. Version: 1.5.20190210-1 (sid), Packaged size: 36 kB, Installed size: 111 kB
• 1072[11:42:15] <OS-60984> /msg OS-60984 REGISTER
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• 1074[11:42:25] <ratrace> OS-60984: double fail
• 1075[11:42:33] *** Joins: dreamon (~dreamon@replaced-ip)
• 1076[11:43:21] <ratrace> here's free infosec tip: never copy&paste commands from the internet into your terminal
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• 1079[11:44:58] <B|ack0p> how can i tell my system RTC in UTC in time setting?
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• 1081[11:45:02] <B|ack0p> Warning: The system is configured to read the RTC time in the local time zone. This mode cannot be fully supported. It will create various problems with time zone changes and daylight saving time adjustments. The RTC time is never updated, it relies on external facilities to maintain it. If at all possible, use RTC in UTC by calling 'timedatectl set-local-rtc 0'.
• 1082[11:45:08] *** Quits: diroots (~diroots@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1083[11:45:21] <ratrace> B|ack0p: read that message in full, lol
• 1084[11:45:28] *** Joins: diroots (~diroots@replaced-ip)
• 1085[11:45:38] <B|ack0p> i am reading but i dont understand :/
• 1086[11:45:40] <ratrace> especially the last sentence.
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• 1089[11:46:05] <B|ack0p> lol
• 1090[11:46:06] <B|ack0p> sorry
• 1091[11:46:09] <ratrace> B|ack0p: btw if you're dual-booting with windows, that's not gonna work
• 1092[11:46:17] <B|ack0p> ratrace: yes i do
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• 1094[11:46:31] <ratrace> I mean, it will work until you reboot into windows and clock gets reset. better change windows to store time in UTC
• 1095[11:47:34] <B|ack0p> ratrace: i already changed windows
• 1096[11:47:38] *** Quits: drmaf (~drmaf@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 1097[11:47:43] <B|ack0p> it now shows correct time
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• 1099[11:47:48] <B|ack0p> but should i set in debian also?
• 1100[11:47:49] <ratrace> aight... then issue that command
• 1101[11:48:01] <ratrace> B|ack0p: it's set, that changes the HW clock
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• 1103[11:48:52] <B|ack0p> set-local-rtc 0 how can i use this command?
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• 1108[11:50:04] <ratrace> B|ack0p: you're joking, right?
• 1109[11:50:14] <B|ack0p> nope
• 1110[11:50:31] <jelly> that does not look like a complete command
• 1111[11:50:36] <B|ack0p> yes
• 1112[11:50:46] <jelly> where did you find it
• 1113[11:50:53] <B|ack0p> in timedatectl warning
• 1114[11:51:02] <ratrace> the FULL command is given in the very message posted here
• 1115[11:51:10] <ratrace> `timedatectl set-local-rtc 0`
• 1116[11:51:23] <B|ack0p> ratrace: i did that but it doesnt recognise
• 1117[11:51:30] <ratrace> what do you mean?
• 1118[11:51:30] <B|ack0p> timedatectl shows info about my clock
• 1119[11:51:38] <B|ack0p> and doesnt apply set-local-rtc 0
• 1120[11:51:58] <B|ack0p> ah wait
• 1121[11:52:01] <B|ack0p> something happened
• 1122[11:52:02] <ratrace> B|ack0p: please pastebin just the output of timedatectl
• 1123[11:52:06] <B|ack0p> maybe i did something wrong before
• 1124[11:52:14] <ratrace> /the output of just timedatectl/
• 1125[11:52:17] <B|ack0p> how can i check if i did correct?
• 1126[11:52:25] <B|ack0p> no output shown
• 1127[11:52:31] <B|ack0p> it asked my root password
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• 1129[11:52:33] <B|ack0p> to authorise
• 1130[11:52:34] <ratrace> run timedatectl and check that "RTC in local TZ: no"
• 1131[11:52:36] <B|ack0p> then nothing
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• 1133[11:52:55] <ratrace> B|ack0p: which debian
• 1134[11:52:58] <B|ack0p> $ timedatectl
• 1135[11:52:58] <B|ack0p> Local time: Tue 2019-12-31 13:52:42 +03
• 1136[11:52:58] <B|ack0p> Universal time: Tue 2019-12-31 10:52:42 UTC
• 1137[11:52:58] <B|ack0p> RTC time: Tue 2019-12-31 10:52:42
• 1138[11:52:58] <B|ack0p> Time zone: Europe/Istanbul (+03, +0300)
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• 1141[11:53:06] <iTeV> rip
• 1142[11:53:09] *** Joins: B|ack0p (~m@replaced-ip)
• 1143[11:53:10] <Logg> nice
• 1144[11:53:10] <B|ack0p> sorry
• 1145[11:53:15] <ratrace> you're not the first time on IRC, so WTF
• 1146[11:53:24] <B|ack0p> sorry
• 1147[11:53:49] <B|ack0p> replaced-url
• 1148[11:53:53] <B|ack0p> i think it is done
• 1149[11:54:07] <ratrace> B|ack0p: yup. RTC in local TZ: no
• 1150[11:54:26] <B|ack0p> thanks
• 1151[11:55:05] <B|ack0p> btw
• 1152[11:55:16] <B|ack0p> why does it show System clock synchronized: no ?
• 1153[11:55:38] <ratrace> B|ack0p: are you running any clock sync service? systemd-timesyncd? ntpd? openntpd? chrony?
• 1154[11:55:47] <B|ack0p> no idea
• 1155[11:55:54] <B|ack0p> but i am using xfce clock plugin
• 1156[11:56:12] *** Parts: WRTxP5Qm5SLbNh1z (~WRTxP5Qm5@replaced-ip) ()
• 1157[11:56:26] <ratrace> B|ack0p: can you pastebin systemctl status systemd-timesyncd.service ?
• 1158[11:56:36] <B|ack0p> ok
• 1159[11:56:43] *** Quits: ayew (~ayew@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.6)
• 1160[11:56:58] <B|ack0p> replaced-url
• 1161[11:57:03] <B|ack0p> ah pastebinit fixed
• 1162[11:57:04] <B|ack0p> good
• 1163[11:58:30] <ratrace> B|ack0p: maybe your clock was off so it needed to drift back to correct time. even if it's miliseconds off, unless the daemon can verify it, it'll think it's not synced
• 1164[11:58:45] <B|ack0p> what should i do?
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• 1170[11:59:51] <ratrace> B|ack0p: wait for it to catch up I suppose.
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• 1172[12:00:23] <B|ack0p> ok
• 1173[12:00:28] <B|ack0p> thx ratrace
• 1174[12:00:45] <ratrace> B|ack0p: one more thing
• 1175[12:00:55] <ratrace> B|ack0p: please pastebin timedatectl timesync-status
• 1176[12:00:58] <B|ack0p> ok
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• 1179[12:01:30] <B|ack0p> replaced-url
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• 1183[12:02:16] <ratrace> B|ack0p: looks good
• 1184[12:02:52] <B|ack0p> thx
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• 1201[12:16:52] <OS-60984> /msg NickServ REGISTER
• 1202[12:17:27] <ratrace> OS-60984: TRIPLE FAIL
• 1203[12:17:40] <OS-60984> lol
• 1204[12:18:01] <ratrace> OS-60984: srsly, stop copypasting stuff from websites
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• 1207[12:20:00] <OS-60984> learning by error
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• 1212[12:22:31] <SpeedyG> OS-60984: get back to #offsec :P
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• 1219[12:27:43] <jelly> they can't get into #offsec until they're registered, and neither Kali distro nor the #offsec channel people seem to care about their hexchat package dumping people in here
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• 1221[12:29:19] <ratrace> it's a test to weed out copypasta haxxor wannabies :)
• 1222[12:29:43] <humbot> but why dump them here
• 1223[12:29:44] <jelly> yeah, if I get annoyed enough I'll just mute OS-*!*@*
• 1224[12:29:46] *** Quits: ndorf (~nd@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 1225[12:30:01] <jelly> humbot, it's the default from debian's packaging of hexchat
• 1226[12:30:03] <ratrace> I said we needed that ban that weeks ago. :)
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• 1228[12:30:33] <jelly> unchanged in several derivative distros and images
• 1229[12:30:42] <humbot> ah
• 1230[12:31:18] <humbot> it's not the most annoying thing
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• 1234[12:42:18] <Azrael_-> hi
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• 1241[12:44:17] <Azrael_-> i've got multiple Maildir-boxes on my server and want to read the mails easily. thought about using mutt but until now i wasn't able to configure mutt to use even one of them. how could i do it and/or what could i use else?
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• 1312[13:50:57] <mononote> hi, dpkg says
• 1313[13:50:59] <mononote> > If you track security updates regularly (as you should!)
• 1314[13:51:05] <mononote> how would one go with that?
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• 1317[13:51:52] <dvs> deb replaced-url
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• 1320[13:58:06] <jelly> mononote, mostly by having correct repos enabled, and running apt update and apt full-upgrade
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• 1322[13:58:43] <Sentinel103> Hi everyone, I am having trouble setting a background using i3 with feh when I login. When installing debian, I chose cinnamon as my DE. Shortly afterwards, I installed i3 and selected it on the user login screen, however, I am stuck with a static background. I've found a command to do this but nothing happens when I append it to my
• 1323[13:58:44] <Sentinel103> ~/.bash_profile. I think this file is read after login but before the desktop is ready. I am not sure where to look at this point.
• 1324[14:00:24] <slimefoot> Sentinel103: .bash_profile is sourced by bash when logging in - you are using a DM, so that does not apply
• 1325[14:00:26] <mononote> i thought he meant to get notification about security issues
• 1326[14:00:29] <mononote> not just upgrading
• 1327[14:01:03] <slimefoot> Sentinel103: I'm not familiar with i3, but doesn't it have a mechanism for running custom commands when starting up?
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• 1330[14:01:36] <slimefoot> Sentinel103: alternatively, depending on the DM you are using, you can use either ~/.xprofile or ~/.xinitrc for stuff to be run automatically when starting X
• 1331[14:01:53] <mononote> Sentinel103, something like
• 1332[14:02:00] <mononote> exec i3 &
• 1333[14:02:01] <mononote> ~/.fehbg
• 1334[14:02:04] <mononote> in .xinitrc
• 1335[14:02:35] <slimefoot> wat
• 1336[14:02:52] <slimefoot> why exec there
• 1337[14:03:16] <mononote> good question lol
• 1338[14:03:42] <Sentinel103> I'm going to look into the i3 startup commands...
• 1339[14:04:11] <slimefoot> Sentinel103: that would be the cleanest, since it's something i3-specific
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• 1342[14:04:57] <ratrace> Sentinel103: i3 has it's own ~/.config/i3/config file, where you should put the feh command
• 1343[14:05:12] <ratrace> Sentinel103: eg: exec --no-startup-id feh --bg-center /path/to/the/pic.jpg
• 1344[14:05:33] <Sentinel103> as for ~/.xinitrc, I had to create it myself. I put ~/.fehbg in there but nothing happened. I don't know how my computer is even starting i3
• 1345[14:06:05] <slimefoot> Sentinel103: xinitrc might not be sourced by your DM anyway
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• 1348[14:06:36] <ratrace> Sentinel103: I use i3 (with LightDM as the DM), and I have feh put up the bg pic, via i3 config file
• 1349[14:07:00] <Sentinel103> alrighty, I'm going to try that
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• 1369[14:20:06] <Sentinel103> putting that line in the i3 config file worked. Thanks!
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• 1393[14:51:45] <ac1dlynx_> hi
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• 1402[15:02:15] <user> Here are the messages the kernel of a virtual machine keeps writing in my TTY : "Uhhuh. NMI received for unknown reason 2c on CPU 0. Do you have a strange power saving mode enabled? Dazed and confused, but trying to continue"
• 1403[15:02:50] <user> Do you have any idea of what is happening there?
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• 1423[15:18:30] <ksk> user: only time Ive seen something like that was with defective hardware (whatever thats worth..)
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• 1428[15:21:20] <jelly> user, which virtualization software?
• 1429[15:21:21] <jelly> user, if you have control of the VM host server, look at the event logs for that VM
• 1430[15:21:43] <ksk> oh thats just inside VM? ignore what I said then..
• 1431[15:21:52] <user> ksk, Ok, thank you for the feedback. Anyhow I don't have this problem on my host machine.
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• 1433[15:22:02] <user> jelly, It runs with qemu.
• 1434[15:22:05] <ksk> yeah, I should reat better.
• 1435[15:22:16] <user> ksk, it happens :)
• 1436[15:24:09] <jelly> see if qemu has logs of doing things to a VM.
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• 1438[15:25:07] <jelly> it is very likely some sort of unexpect host<->guest interaction
• 1439[15:25:15] <jelly> unexpected
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• 1441[15:26:01] <jelly> (seen similar spurious NMI on guests running on old esxi)
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• 1445[15:28:42] <user> jelly, There was no stderr output with the default log level of qemu, but I'll try to see if the host kernel produces some errors the next time the problem happens.
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• 1450[15:33:28] <jelly> I have no idea why would host kernel be relevant at all, but okay
• 1451[15:35:26] <user> jelly, who knows? If it's a hardware problem, or if something goes wrong with KVM?
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• 1465[15:48:06] <jelly> user, there is no indication it might be a hw problem at all
• 1466[15:49:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1440
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• 1468[15:49:23] <jelly> but kvm has a kernel component, I forgot about that
• 1469[15:49:38] <ksk> agreed. When I saw NMI related cpu errors on a host, it also stalled and needed to be hard reset ;)
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• 1472[15:51:43] <jelly> those are actual NMI, not "vm host has stopped/change state of your vCPU for abit and is trying to hack up an explanation to the guest"
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• 1474[15:52:52] <CpAj0> is possible to download deb package from a url without add the url to sources.list.d/app?
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• 1486[15:56:39] <joepublic> it is possible to download a .deb file, yes
• 1487[15:57:05] <joepublic> they love at packages.debian.org
• 1488[15:57:12] <joepublic> s/love/live/g
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• 1491[15:57:53] <joepublic> This is a question that also raises the question, though, why do you want to do that?
• 1492[15:57:58] <jelly> CpAj0, yes, almost all repositories are accessible via http protocol so you can use any downloader that does http
• 1493[15:59:18] <jelly> using apt however does some security-relevant checks that manual download would miss
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• 1496[16:02:29] <CpAj0> because signal(replaced-url
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• 1498[16:02:57] <ksk> if you are using third party software, the best way is to include its repo
• 1499[16:03:12] <ksk> if you do not, you will not get updates via apt uprade
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• 1501[16:03:29] <ksk> but will have to check and download a new package manually
• 1502[16:04:00] <CpAj0> ksk, yes, this is exactly what i want
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• 1515[16:14:05] <user> jelly, ksk the problem doesn't seem to happen with the default -cpu option, it happened with -cpu host. So there must be a cpuid that poses problem.
• 1516[16:14:21] <joepublic> okay. do you need further advice/instructions on downloading and installing .deb packages, or is your question answered
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• 1519[16:16:03] <jelly> they are gone already joepublic, we'll never know now!
• 1520[16:16:29] <joepublic> oh, sorry, thanks
• 1521[16:16:47] <joepublic> was just looking for another opportunity to recommend "don't do that"
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• 1523[16:17:32] <ksk> haha. was already amazed by the "thats bad, dont do that" - "I want do do that!" ;)
• 1524[16:17:55] <jelly> yeah, don't do "don't do that" without providing at least alternative and better also a rationale
• 1525[16:19:42] <jelly> a valid continuation might have been "in that case best practice is still to enable repo, but !hold"
• 1526[16:20:49] <ksk> thanks for pointing that out.
• 1527[16:20:53] <jelly> people typically don't respond well to repeated "don't do that, that's dumb"
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• 1556[16:33:19] <joepublic> by "don't do that" I actually did mean, diplomatically present a more sane way; you are absolutely right
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• 1574[16:43:38] <sapiens> hellow
• 1575[16:43:53] <sapiens> oiii
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• 1585[16:50:50] <joepublic> tudo bem?
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• 1589[16:55:12] <nvz> !br
• 1590[16:55:12] <dpkg> Este canal é apenas em inglês. Por favor, use #debian-br (/j #debian-br) para ajuda em portugues.
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• 1595[16:58:52] <joepublic> I do apologize.
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• 1598[17:04:10] <nvz> is there a method in xorg to increase the amount a scroll wheel scrolls by? when I'm using this lil laptop sized external mouse the resolution on the scroll wheel is horrible
• 1599[17:05:24] <nvz> I' used to using my trackpoint and scrolling many pages without moving my finger hardly at all.. I'm having to stroke this scroll wheel multiple times just to scroll one page
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• 1606[17:08:35] <Boodie> Hi, I am about to upgrade to buster from stretch. This is the sources.list content ... replaced-url
• 1607[17:08:58] <greycat> !buster sources.list
• 1608[17:08:58] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb replaced-url
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• 1613[17:11:02] <nvz> Boodie: please do not use that site. use paste.debian.net or something sane
• 1614[17:11:31] <Boodie> ok
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• 1617[17:12:52] <nvz> also read chapter 4 of the buster release notes
• 1618[17:13:08] <joepublic> boodie, you were about to upgrade yesterday :)
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• 1620[17:13:51] <nvz> joepublic: thats a good thing.. upgrades on any system should be planned
• 1621[17:14:29] <Boodie> yep
• 1622[17:14:41] <Boodie> It's anxiety
• 1623[17:14:46] <joepublic> no argument there, careful planning saves problems
• 1624[17:14:48] <nvz> I can't count how many times in the last year I've heard from win10 users, microsoft said to update, then turned around and said don't update.. it'll break your system :P
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• 1628[17:19:40] <Boodie> where do I place non-free in sources list? Looks like the sources don't go on one line any more ...
• 1629[17:20:32] <nkuttler> Boodie: doesn't matter. what do you mean, one line?
• 1630[17:20:38] <nkuttler> !sources.list
• 1631[17:20:38] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb replaced-url
• 1632[17:20:54] <nkuttler> Boodie: see also man 5 sources.list
• 1633[17:21:12] *** Parts: Xatenev (~Xatenev@replaced-ip) ()
• 1634[17:23:03] <nvz> Boodie: put it on all 3 of the official sources lines
• 1635[17:23:49] <kts> replaced-url
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• 1638[17:25:20] <Xatenev> hello
• 1639[17:25:25] <Xatenev> why is my gnome-terminal header bar white and it seesm to be dark for everyone else?
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• 1641[17:25:52] <nvz> header bar?
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• 1643[17:26:06] <Xatenev> nvz: I mean the title bar where it says `File` Edit View Search Terminal Help
• 1644[17:26:21] <Xatenev> it doesnt seem to be customizable in Edit=>Preferences
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• 1646[17:26:42] <Boodie> Would this sources.list work replaced-url
• 1647[17:27:57] <nvz> thats the menu bar not the title or header :P
• 1648[17:28:04] <Xatenev> oh ok :]
• 1649[17:28:06] <Xatenev> menu bar then!
• 1650[17:28:17] <nvz> Xatenev: are other apps the same color?
• 1651[17:28:30] <nvz> sounds like a theme issue to me
• 1652[17:29:00] <dvs> Boodie, lines 1 and 4 can be combined into "main contrib non-free"
• 1653[17:29:05] <Xatenev> nvz: they are all light i think
• 1654[17:29:23] <nvz> Xatenev: so you probably have a light gtk3 theme set
• 1655[17:29:28] <Xatenev> nvz: not good :(
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• 1658[17:29:41] <nvz> I use mate, its light by default.. I downloaded and set a dark theme :D
• 1659[17:29:57] <Boodie> Perfect! Thanks
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• 1661[17:30:19] <dvs> Boodie, you can also add "contrib non-free" to the end of the other two lines
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• 1664[17:31:00] <Xatenev> nvz: okay i installed arc-theme via apt
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• 1666[17:31:04] <Xatenev> nvz: i am trying to figure out how to use it now
• 1667[17:31:15] <nvz> Xatenev: replaced-url
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• 1669[17:31:31] <Boodie> Like this replaced-url
• 1670[17:31:36] <nvz> I would imagine they'd work on gnome as well since it uses gtk like mate
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• 1672[17:31:49] <Xatenev> nvz: how do i tell debian to use a specific theme?
• 1673[17:31:52] <Xatenev> sorry im new to deb
• 1674[17:32:02] <dvs> Boodie, exactly
• 1675[17:32:07] <dvs> !buster sources.list
• 1676[17:32:07] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb replaced-url
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• 1678[17:32:15] <Xatenev> nvz: (I used the default debian desktop environment)
• 1679[17:32:20] <nvz> Xatenev: idk, I'm looking into it in my gnome vm.. gnome is ridiculously painful to use
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• 1682[17:33:20] <nvz> Xatenev: looks like the gnome-tweak tool does it.. its just called tweaks in the menu, but gnome-tweak in the search finds it
• 1683[17:33:32] <nvz> Xatenev: its under appearance in the gnome-tweak tool
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• 1687[17:34:14] <nvz> it makes me sick even looking at gnome.. its such an annoying environment.. you gotta search for everything cause its so unintuitive
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• 1690[17:34:59] <bluejaypop> I'm trying to run a process by different user using su - and runuser but the process doesn't run up, when I do it as root it works.. I'm kind of sure it is because it takes around 5 seconds to start but maybe I'm wrong, what could be the problem for this situation?
• 1691[17:34:59] <Xatenev> hmm
• 1692[17:35:01] <Xatenev> nvz: it didnt work for me
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• 1694[17:35:08] <Xatenev> ive selected ark dark in the gnome tweak tool
• 1695[17:35:11] <Xatenev> but nothing changed (i rebooted)
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• 1697[17:35:16] <Boodie> OK, thanks ... no doubt I'll be be back ... wish me good luck and Happy nNew Year to you all
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• 1699[17:35:31] <nvz> Xatenev: there is no need to reboot and that annoying tool sets theme for each individual part of the UI
• 1700[17:35:33] <dvs> o/
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• 1702[17:35:34] <Xatenev> nvz: maybe i should use another desktop environment?
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• 1704[17:35:44] <nvz> Xatenev: I'd HIGHLY recommend that, yes..
• 1705[17:35:53] <karlpinc> !tell Boodie about errors
• 1706[17:35:57] <Xatenev> nvz: do you know a good one? :)
• 1707[17:36:02] <Xatenev> i like light stuff
• 1708[17:36:04] <Xatenev> because my pc is not so good
• 1709[17:36:11] <nvz> Xatenev: MATE, XFCE and Cinnamon are the most usable ones in my opinion MATE is a fork of the old gnome2 codebase
• 1710[17:36:17] <karlpinc> !tell bluejaypop about errors
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• 1712[17:36:34] <karlpinc> Boodie: Sorry. Directed that factoid to the wrong place.
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• 1714[17:36:45] <nvz> Xatenev: you can install and use more than one.. and after you get familiar with debian you can mix and match components and build your own setup
• 1715[17:36:55] <kts> replaced-url
• 1716[17:37:12] <Xatenev> nvz: I am actually using i3 so im not using my desktop environment that much
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• 1718[17:37:21] <Xatenev> nvz: I just wanna fix the colors :d
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• 1723[17:39:32] <nvz> gnome is the most unintuitive, counterproductive, ridiculous excuse for a user interface I've ever seen.. I'd rather use Win 3.11 program manager :P
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• 1727[17:39:44] <Xatenev> nvz: ok i was wrong, it was in Edit => preferencdes
• 1728[17:39:45] <dvs> O_O
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• 1730[17:40:01] <Xatenev> nvz: i looked for it in the profile settings but its at general => theme variant
• 1731[17:40:02] <Xatenev> nvz: thx :]
• 1732[17:40:02] <dvs> nvz, at least Gnome 2 was useable
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• 1741[17:42:08] <karlpinc> How do I tell if my system supports "suspend-to-disk (hibernation)"?
• 1742[17:42:15] <nvz> yes gnome2/mate is very usable.. you just right click on stuff to edit it.. the menu is a menu.. not some goofy kiosk with a search engine that makes it difficult to find anything
• 1743[17:43:15] <Xatenev> goofy kiosk. lol
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• 1745[17:44:14] <nvz> karlpinc: if you have at least as much swap as you have ram, and that swap is available at boot time, your system supports hibernation
• 1746[17:44:48] <nvz> Xatenev: it is.. there is no better way to explain it.. its a kiosk interface.. its not made for a normal person to use with a keyboard and mouse and be productive
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• 1748[17:45:28] <nvz> unless you're going to use a touchscreen kiosk, I can see no reason anyone would want to use gnome
• 1749[17:45:58] <mtn> funny how the worst DE is the most common default DE in distros. hmmm
• 1750[17:46:01] <jhutchins_wk> nvz: I think the BIOS has to support it as well.
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• 1752[17:47:29] <nvz> jhutchins_wk: I can't imagine why.. the kernel checks the swap for a hibernation file on boot.. the bios knows nothing about it.. its a normal boot/shutdown as far as the machine is concerned
• 1753[17:47:54] <nvz> jhutchins_wk: sleep is something that has to be supported by the CPU hibernation however is just a shutdown and boot same as any other
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• 1755[17:48:41] <nvz> mtn: yeah well GNOME or KDE have been the default for a long time.. but they've gone to shit trying too hard to innovate :D
• 1756[17:48:46] <bluejaypop> do I have to add my user to specific group in order to allow open sockets? I mean I have a script which generates a websocket and allow listening at 8083 ports, when I execute it with root it works, but when I do with replaced-url
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• 1759[17:49:33] <greycat> By default, any ordinary user can listen on any port above 1023. Unless it's already in use.
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• 1763[17:50:17] <greycat> Or unless AppArmor or a systemd unit file or a container or some other restriction is in place.
• 1764[17:50:31] <bluejaypop> ok
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• 1767[17:51:53] <bluejaypop> i think my problem is AppArmor, thanks for the tip, i'll check it out
• 1768[17:52:20] <nvz> I find it a tad curious that apparmor is in base but the profiles and utilities don't seem to be
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• 1770[17:52:26] <greycat> if it's AppArmor, you should be able to find evidence in dmesg or some log file ... somewhere ...
• 1771[17:52:45] <nvz> I don't really know it very well but seems to me that its useless without the tools and policies
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• 1778[17:55:48] <nvz> I can only imagine its just simply a dependency issue that its in there at all
• 1779[17:56:55] <jhutchins_wk> nvz: Ok, that makes sense.
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• 1783[17:58:23] <nvz> jhutchins_wk: you do however need at least as much swap space as you have ram because all the ram has to be copied to swap for it to work
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• 1786[17:59:17] <karlpinc> nvz: The apparmor-profiles package says it contains only experimental profiles. FWIW.
• 1787[18:00:31] <bluejaypop> great, it was AppArmor, thanks!
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• 1808[18:11:16] <jhutchins_wk> nvz: Yeah, and I don't think I've been doing that, I tend to do half ram.
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• 1823[18:22:37] <nvz> jhutchins_wk: I used to do 2-3x but these days I do 0-0.5x :P things have changed
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• 1845[18:38:29] <Boodie> Hi, I am upgrading to buster ... it's asking " Interfaces to listen on for UPnP queries" ( for The MiniSSDP daemon) ... how should I respond?
• 1846[18:38:41] <greycat> When In Doubt, Hit Enter
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• 1867[18:50:36] <nvz> jhutchins_wk: though I also do not use hibernate so, doesn't really matter to me.. I have 96Wh of power in this machine and I typically draw less than 5w when its in use.. so.. sleep is more than sufficient to get me computing all day long, no need to hibernate.
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• 1869[18:51:23] <nvz> hibernation is just a pita cause I gotta unlock my disk again
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• 1881[19:03:20] <nvz> well I guess I'm down to 87Wh total now ... but thats still anywhere from 4-18hrs battery life depending on backlight/cpu use mostly
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• 1888[19:10:39] <Boodie> Hi all, upgraded. It's 90% functional ... the desktop does not come up automatically (I used a login manager ... gdm?) and I have to choose a screen via Alt-F1 and then startx
• 1889[19:11:47] <Boodie> I am using xfce and all the icons have not been loaded, apart from that all else seems in place
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• 1891[19:13:08] <Boodie> Default File Manager is not working
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• 1898[19:16:57] <johnfg> hi folks
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• 1900[19:17:07] <nvz> Boodie: dpkg -l xdm sddm lightdm gdm3 ldm lxdm
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• 1902[19:17:21] <nvz> Boodie: dpkg -l xdm sddm lightdm gdm3 ldm lxdm | nc termbin.com 9999
• 1903[19:17:33] <johnfg> I'm still without a properly functioning openvpn. Is there anything more that you can think of to fix the problem?
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• 1906[19:20:46] <johnfg> Here's just now, with strace -f.
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• 1910[19:21:15] <un214> Is there any way to find out why upgrading to systemd broke sound playback?
• 1911[19:21:29] <un214> $ cat /dev/urandom > /dev/audio1 works but nothing higher level generates any output
• 1912[19:21:40] <Boodie> un214: I have the same problem
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• 1915[19:23:26] <jhutchins_wk> un214: Start here:
• 1916[19:23:31] <jhutchins_wk> !alsa checklist
• 1917[19:23:31] <dpkg> 1) add yourself to the 'audio' group (log out & in again) 2) unmute and raise channels w/ alsamixer (also try muting some & toggle jack sense if available) 3) <pulseaudio> or other daemon stopped? 4) speakers on? 5) does "aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Noise.wav" work for root? 6) purge any installed <oss4> packages to remove ALSA blacklist. See also <list alsa users>, <alsa firmware>.
• 1918[19:23:59] <un214> ok that's even funnier; restarting pulseaudio in a terminal makes it work
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• 1923[19:29:26] <Boodie> I am afraid I have a lot of problems ... 1 the sound doesn't work, 2) xfce is half working
• 1924[19:30:15] <Boodie> The login manager doesn't work, I have to do startx from a terminal
• 1925[19:30:22] <greycat> Pulse causes more problems than it solves.
• 1926[19:30:46] <un214> I had to revert to xdm a couple years ago
• 1927[19:30:58] <Boodie> Aptitude shows a ton of packages broken
• 1928[19:31:01] <greycat> Also, you can tell how old that alsa checklist factoid is by the fact that it mentions OSS.
• 1929[19:31:26] <greycat> Boodie: oh, then your upgrade isn't complete yet. You'll want to fix those.
• 1930[19:31:26] <un214> "Aptitude shows a ton of packages broken" -- fix that first
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• 1932[19:32:10] <un214> greycat: my debian install's almost old enough to have had OSS on it
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• 1934[19:32:26] <Boodie> OK, how to do that?
• 1935[19:32:36] <greycat> Try "dpkg --configure -a" and see what happens.
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• 1937[19:32:45] <greycat> If an error occurs, fix it, and repeat.
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• 1940[19:35:15] <Boodie> what is the pastebin address again?
• 1941[19:35:30] <jhutchins_wk> paste.debian.net
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• 1945[19:36:16] <jhutchins_wk> Boodie: Did you do a dist-upgrade or full-upgrade?
• 1946[19:36:29] <greycat> they're synonyms in apt
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• 1948[19:37:06] <Boodie> dist-upgrade, followed by full-upgrade
• 1949[19:37:29] <jhutchins_wk> Boodie: That's redundant, but OK.
• 1950[19:37:42] <Boodie> "dpkg --configure -a" result: replaced-url
• 1951[19:37:56] <un214> it sometimes fixes config-dependencies that aren't declared
• 1952[19:38:14] <un214> ok WOW
• 1953[19:38:36] <un214> what's the result of echo $PATH
• 1954[19:38:48] <jhutchins_wk> Boodie: We have not heard if errors were displayed during the upgrade.
• 1955[19:38:57] <Boodie> /usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games
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• 1957[19:39:01] <un214> try this
• 1958[19:39:23] <jhutchins_wk> Not root's path.
• 1959[19:39:38] <un214> PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/usr/sbin sudo dpkg --configure -a
• 1960[19:39:51] <jhutchins_wk> un214: How do we know he's running it as root?
• 1961[19:40:19] <Boodie> I ran it via 'su -c'
• 1962[19:40:35] <un214> oh; yeah that's the problem
• 1963[19:40:43] <ksk> !su
• 1964[19:40:43] <dpkg> extra, extra read all about it, su is switch/set user. It is used to change User ID's and/or gain super user access. Since Debian Buster, "su -" or "su -l" is needed to access programs located in /sbin. It provides an root environment as if the superuser had logged in directly. See "man su".
• 1965[19:40:46] <un214> su -c will always take your user's path which definitely won't work
• 1966[19:41:23] <Boodie> ok, so would it work if I became root?
• 1967[19:42:12] <jhutchins_wk> Boodie: We would expect it to.
• 1968[19:43:06] <jhutchins_wk> What's the apt equivalent of aptitude -f install?
• 1969[19:43:10] <Boodie> No, it doesn't
• 1970[19:43:25] <un214> paste it and let's continue
• 1971[19:45:01] <jhutchins_wk> Interesting, there doesn't seem to be one.
• 1972[19:45:13] <nvz> jhutchins_wk: apt -f install
• 1973[19:45:34] *** Joins: zyun (~zyun@replaced-ip)
• 1974[19:45:35] <jhutchins_wk> nvz: Not in the manpage.
• 1975[19:45:49] <nvz> jhutchins_wk: *shrug* I've used it before
• 1976[19:45:58] <Boodie> Ok, what next?
• 1977[19:46:18] <un214> apt-get -f install should work though
• 1978[19:46:28] <un214> or at least tell us what's next to fix
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• 1981[19:47:04] <jhutchins_wk> un214: Yeah, I'd do packages first, then configuration.
• 1982[19:47:23] <jhutchins_wk> Boodie: Could you paste your sources.list and anything from sources.list.d?
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• 1985[19:49:47] <Boodie> replaced-url
• 1986[19:50:17] <Boodie> Errors were encountered while processing: minissdpd
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• 1992[19:51:16] <Boodie> Anyways, xfce seems fixed, now
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• 1994[19:51:36] <un214> ok let's do apt-get -f install again and pastebin the result of that
• 1995[19:51:45] <un214> maybe we can see what's left
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• 1999[19:54:35] <Boodie> replaced-url
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• 2004[19:56:09] <un214> the good news is you have exactly 1 broken package left
• 2005[19:56:20] <un214> the bad news is I won't be able to do any more
• 2006[19:56:22] <Boodie> Should I do "apt autoremove"?
• 2007[19:56:37] <un214> that just cleans up unreferenced packages
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• 2010[19:58:00] <towo`> i would try apt purge minissdpd
• 2011[19:58:27] <Boodie> While installing I was asked if I wanted minissdpd to be set and then it asked me for the names of the interfaces, which I had no idea what to respond
• 2012[19:58:38] <ksk> maybe its config changed during release-upgrade, and you choose to keep old config? not sure.. If you do not need minissdpd I suggest removing it
• 2013[19:58:40] <towo`> that's why it fails
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• 2015[19:58:55] <Boodie> Is minissdpd essential?
• 2016[19:59:01] <un214> no
• 2017[19:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1451
• 2018[19:59:05] <greycat> "MiniSSDPd keeps memory of all UPnP devices that announced themselves on the network through SSDP NOTIFY packets."
• 2019[19:59:10] <ksk> try "aptitude why minissdpd" to find out why its installed.
• 2020[19:59:26] <greycat> So I guess it depends on whether you have any UPnP devices on your network, and whether you care about them.
• 2021[20:00:12] <Boodie> i 0ad Depends libminiupnpc17 (>= 1.9.20140610) ----> i A libminiupnpc17 Suggests minissdpd
• 2022[20:00:24] <Boodie> It's a fricking game!
• 2023[20:00:43] <Boodie> That requires MiniSSDPd
• 2024[20:00:49] <ksk> no, it SUGGESTS
• 2025[20:01:01] <un214> it probably wants it for its multiplayer component
• 2026[20:01:13] <Boodie> Makes sense
• 2027[20:01:20] <un214> ssdp can be used to auto-configure some routers to open the game port so you can host the server
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• 2029[20:01:29] <Boodie> I can remove it safely
• 2030[20:01:50] <un214> oh yes
• 2031[20:02:54] <Boodie> It will remove a ton of packages with it
• 2032[20:03:16] <un214> wait wat?
• 2033[20:03:38] *** Quits: longbow (~longbow@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2034[20:03:45] <Boodie> No, apologies; it's the unreferenced packages
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• 2037[20:07:03] *** Quits: tommaso (~tommaso@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2038[20:07:17] <Boodie> Ok, so, how do I get the login manager (gdm?) to start xfce after boot?
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• 2046[20:08:31] <dvs> Boodie, install gdm?
• 2047[20:08:35] <un214> I gave up and made a ~/.xsession
• 2048[20:10:07] <greycat> lightdm is probably what you want for xfce, not gdm3, although I guess gdm3 would work
• 2049[20:11:16] <Boodie> OK, thanks for now, I'll be back in the next decade
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• 2052[20:12:32] <dvs> Yay! 10 years without Boodie! ;-)
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• 2057[20:19:08] <hatter_> I just discovered that openssh doesn't work with tcpwrappers anymore
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• 2061[20:19:39] <greycat> sshd is still linked with libwrap
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• 2063[20:19:53] <hatter_> greycat, what does that mean ?
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• 2065[20:20:23] <greycat> The code is there, ready to be used. It *should* still work with TCP wrappers, if everything is configured correctly. I have not tried it.
• 2066[20:20:31] <hatter_> it doesn't
• 2067[20:20:40] <greycat> Did you file a bug report?
• 2068[20:21:11] <hatter_> no, as far as I thought I read that it was by design
• 2069[20:21:38] <greycat> if it were supposed to not work, I would expect them to stop linking it with libwrap
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• 2071[20:21:58] <hatter_> hmm, it did work, up until stretch it seems
• 2072[20:22:21] <hatter_> Suddenly all my boxes are getting ssh hammered, so I had to put the block in iptables
• 2073[20:23:00] <jhutchins_wk> I seem to remember that current xfce4 doesn't work with current gdm3. (I could very well be wrong.)
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• 2076[20:23:51] <jhutchins_wk> hatter_: Don't run it on port 22 (or 222).
• 2077[20:24:26] <jhutchins_wk> hatter_: If you're running a local firewall, set it to throttle sshd connections.
• 2078[20:24:29] <hatter_> jhutchins_wk, security through obscurity is not security, but that would also stop the hammering. However so does iptables.
• 2079[20:24:59] <greycat> It's not intended as a security measure. Just a bandwidth saver.
• 2080[20:25:06] <jhutchins_wk> hatter_: It's not really security - that happens elsewhere. It's just removing an inconvenience.
• 2081[20:25:20] <hatter_> I was just surprised I didn't read it in any release notes, at least I think I didn't
• 2082[20:25:34] <jhutchins_wk> hatter_: Script kiddies aren't going to scan your systems for the ssh port just so they can hammer it.
• 2083[20:25:53] <greycat> They might.
• 2084[20:25:59] <jhutchins_wk> hatter_: More sophisticated attackers will assume that if you took that precaution, you took others and aren't an easy target.
• 2085[20:26:07] <greycat> But you'll get *fewer* of them.
• 2086[20:26:15] <hatter_> jhutchins_wk, sure, but iptables filtering is just fine.
• 2087[20:26:27] <jhutchins_wk> hatter_: That and/or throttling.
• 2088[20:26:34] <hatter_> more sophisticated attackers are just bots.
• 2089[20:26:47] <hatter_> they don't assume, they just attack.
• 2090[20:26:50] <jhutchins_wk> hatter_: Still, if you have it on 22, all of those DDOS hits are still going to have to be processed by the kernel.
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• 2092[20:28:19] <nvz> keep on ddos'n like we're on port twenty-two-ooo-ooo..
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• 2108[20:40:15] <greycat> I just tried ssh TCP wrapper stuff on buster, and it worked for me. I put the line "sshd: 127.0.0.1" in /etc/hosts.deny and then ran "ssh 127.0.0.1" and it gave me an error after a few seconds. Commented the line out, and "ssh 127.0.0.1" connected successfully.
• 2109[20:40:37] <greycat> So, the support *is* there and it *does* work. If you're having trouble with it, we need details.
• 2110[20:40:46] *** Quits: semeion (~semeion@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.7)
• 2111[20:41:14] <greycat> (Note that "ssh localhost" was unaffected, most likely because it used IPv6 instead of v4.)
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• 2120[20:46:43] <CutMeOwnThroat> uuh. I figured out why terminals opened inside a vnc server at :1 open on my main display :0
• 2121[20:47:42] *** Quits: dtux (~dmtucker@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2122[20:48:11] <CutMeOwnThroat> it's because the bloody gnome people thought they are so smart… and gnome-terminal, which seems to be the default contacts the gnome terminal server to open another terminal on the same process
• 2123[20:48:18] <CutMeOwnThroat> without checking if it's the same display
• 2124[20:48:45] <jhutchins_wk> Yay gnome.
• 2125[20:49:03] <greycat> GNOME, doing everything wrong since 1999
• 2126[20:49:10] *** Quits: bertbob (~bertbob@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 2127[20:49:27] <greycat> Or at least... 2011, the release of GNOME 3
• 2128[20:49:36] <CutMeOwnThroat> continuity is important
• 2129[20:50:33] <greycat> replaced-url
• 2130[20:50:37] <CutMeOwnThroat> it worked in stretch… and I guess that also was gnome terminal… because I'm only updating
• 2131[20:50:51] <CutMeOwnThroat> they probably "optimized" it
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• 2133[20:51:54] <CutMeOwnThroat> oh… use on tablets was the reason for all the stupidity we see there?
• 2134[20:52:29] *** Joins: pedromrgoncalves (6d330db3@replaced-ip)
• 2135[20:52:57] <CutMeOwnThroat> reminds me of… I was applying for jobs around 2007… and a company had a lot of puzzle pieces with an employee on each. The shape of the puzzles fit, the images did not… as any puzzler would know… both have to match
• 2136[20:53:12] <CutMeOwnThroat> the message I got from that was "we make things fit that dont belong, we have a hammer"
• 2137[20:53:14] *** Quits: tyranny12 (~blarg@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2138[20:53:17] <CutMeOwnThroat> similar approach there, I guess
• 2139[20:53:45] <CutMeOwnThroat> "tablets and desktops are used very differently, let's make something that sucks on both"
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• 2144[20:54:56] <CutMeOwnThroat> As of 2015, critical reception has been much more positive.[39] For example, Debian, a Linux distribution that had historically used GNOME 2, switched to Xfce when GNOME 3 was released but readopted GNOME 3 in time for the release of Debian 8 "Jessie"
• 2145[20:54:56] *** Quits: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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• 2148[20:55:42] <greycat> for whatever meaning of "used" and "adopted" fits
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• 2150[20:56:26] <mulletman> Is there a way I can install a newer version of qbitorrent than what is in the repo?
• 2151[20:56:31] <CutMeOwnThroat> hmm… and I have xfce4 ,but no xfce4-terminal, which is why calling a terminal opens gnome-terminal
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• 2158[20:59:18] <CutMeOwnThroat> whyever
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• 2184[21:15:52] <vetru> Odd question. Is it possible to disable DEP and ASLR for a chroot environment?
• 2185[21:16:23] <vetru> Trying to figure out the best way to setup a PoC GDB environment for 32bit applications.
• 2186[21:16:43] <vetru> I figure the answer is, no.
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• 2189[21:20:46] <e2> happy new year!!! 2020
• 2190[21:21:03] *** Quits: Typhon (~Typhon@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 2191[21:21:05] <dvs> not yet! :-P
• 2192[21:21:09] *** Quits: CrazyEddy (crazyed@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2193[21:21:20] <greycat> for many people, it is
• 2194[21:21:42] * dvs still hangs onto the past
• 2195[21:22:36] <vetru> lol
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• 2200[21:27:17] * annadane forces dvs to downgrade to Lenny
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• 2213[21:33:21] <jelly> vetru, what does DEP specifically mean in Linux context? ASLR can't be disabled for a chroot with /proc/sys/kernel/randomize_va_space, it's a global tunable
• 2214[21:33:53] <vetru> Setting noexec and noexec32 to off.
• 2215[21:34:40] <vetru> Basically, at the moment, I am running a second virtual machine for gdbserver to debug 32b programs compiled with -fno-stack-protection -m32 to practice buffer overflow fuzzing
• 2216[21:34:44] <jelly> where are those applied?
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• 2218[21:35:06] <vetru> noexec and noexec32 are applied in the grub config
• 2219[21:35:07] *** Joins: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip)
• 2220[21:35:12] <vetru> /etc/default/grub
• 2221[21:35:17] <vetru> Which is why i figured the answer would be no
• 2222[21:35:22] <jelly> as kernel boot parameters?
• 2223[21:35:28] <vetru> Seeing as the chroot env would still be running in a DEP/ASLR host
• 2224[21:35:33] <vetru> yes
• 2225[21:35:50] <vetru> Was a longshot question, basically.
• 2226[21:36:09] <jelly> then the answer is obvious, you need to boot an emulated or virtual or physical linux kernel with those disabled
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• 2228[21:36:25] <vetru> Yep, that is currently what I am doing.
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• 2231[21:38:39] <vetru> I guess I could turn it off on my 64bit machine and run a 32b chroot and probably be fine.
• 2232[21:38:46] <vetru> Meh, decisions. Thanks jelly
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• 2247[21:59:31] <B|ack0p> 30 seconda
• 2248[21:59:33] <B|ack0p> seconds
• 2249[21:59:35] <B|ack0p> to 2020
• 2250[21:59:56] <B|ack0p> 5
• 2251[21:59:57] <B|ack0p> 4
• 2252[21:59:58] <B|ack0p> 3
• 2253[22:00:00] <B|ack0p> 1
• 2254[22:00:03] <B|ack0p> 2020
• 2255[22:00:03] *** B|ack0p was kicked by debhelper (flood)
• 2256[22:00:07] <greycat> heh
• 2257[22:00:20] *** Joins: B|ack0p (~m@replaced-ip)
• 2258[22:00:22] <B|ack0p> :p
• 2259[22:00:25] <B|ack0p> happy new year
• 2260[22:00:43] <dvs> you missed it! ;-)
• 2261[22:00:47] <B|ack0p> :p
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• 2265[22:01:52] <robobox2> there's eight more hours for me
• 2266[22:02:17] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip)
• 2267[22:02:18] <Chunkyz> 3 hours here. :)
• 2268[22:03:00] <dvs> eight is the right answer! ;-)
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• 2276[22:08:26] <B|ack0p> robobox2: where do you live? o.O
• 2277[22:08:49] <greycat> Most likely in America/New_York
• 2278[22:09:03] <robobox2> yeah, east coast
• 2279[22:09:08] <greycat> Could also be the South American extension of that time zone. It's a really big, popular one.
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• 2283[22:11:53] <CutMeOwnThroat> more like 36600 seconds…
• 2284[22:11:57] <CutMeOwnThroat> I'll spare you the countdown
• 2285[22:12:07] *** Quits: brettgilio (~brettgili@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 2286[22:12:32] <joepublic> I'll do it mentally; thanks
• 2287[22:12:46] <vetru> Actually, I could benefit from a countdown
• 2288[22:12:48] <vetru> js
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• 2301[22:22:27] <CutMeOwnThroat> duz dat mean you're mental
• 2302[22:22:39] *** Joins: conyers (~conyers@replaced-ip)
• 2303[22:22:47] <joepublic> to some degree, sure
• 2304[22:23:05] *** Quits: afx_ (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: afx_)
• 2305[22:23:37] <CutMeOwnThroat> or maybe a mentalist
• 2306[22:24:16] <annadane> 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
• 2307[22:24:19] <joepublic> little of that too, I suppose
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• 2316[22:26:21] <Boodie> Hi all, I upgraded to buster. Everything seems fine, except for the sound ... it seems that jack is not running
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• 2318[22:26:27] *** Parts: mamalos (~mamalos@replaced-ip) ()
• 2319[22:27:15] <dvs> !timidity pulsaudio
• 2320[22:27:25] <greycat> Is pulse running? Do you WANT pulse to be running? Does pulse only have "Dummy Output"? Is timidity running? Do you want it to be?
• 2321[22:27:39] <greycat> !listkeys timidity
• 2322[22:27:41] <dpkg> Factoid search of 'timidity' by key (5): timidity ;; timidity pulseaudio ;; _default timidity ;; #debian timidity ;; sid timidity.
• 2323[22:27:48] <greycat> !timidity pulseaudio
• 2324[22:27:48] <dpkg> Some users have had <timidity> blocking access to their sound card, resulting in <pulseaudio> only seeing a dummy output. Check if timidity is running with 'systemctl status timidity' and stop/disable with 'systemctl stop timidity ; systemctl disable timidity' and/or remove the timidity-daemon package.
• 2325[22:28:05] <greycat> That's also on the wiki page at replaced-url
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• 2328[22:32:32] <CutMeOwnThroat> and what the heck is timidity
• 2329[22:32:41] <CutMeOwnThroat> oh… and … I might as well have that problem
• 2330[22:33:21] <CutMeOwnThroat> ah, no
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• 2334[22:34:45] <Boodie> It worked, thanks ... so what happened with buster that made timidity incompatible?
• 2335[22:34:56] <hatter_> what do I do if I am half way through an upgrade and I can't read the ncurses screen ? It is half way and I have to choose an option...
• 2336[22:34:58] <greycat> Or you may choose to remove the timidity-daemon package. See also 901148
• 2337[22:35:02] <greycat> #901148
• 2338[22:35:03] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 2339[22:35:28] <greycat> If only there were some sort of wiki page where all this stuff was gathered and visible in one place.
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• 2343[22:37:33] <CutMeOwnThroat> that'd be nice
• 2344[22:37:43] *** Joins: Malivaso (~Malivaso@replaced-ip)
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• 2346[22:37:55] <CutMeOwnThroat> if only it said what else but timdity it could be
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• 2353[22:41:29] <CutMeOwnThroat> oh… triviality. "restart stuff"
• 2354[22:41:58] *** Joins: Maraakate (~anonymous@replaced-ip)
• 2355[22:42:31] <greycat> The NewInBuster page lists actual problems that have been observed, and their known solutions or workarounds.
• 2356[22:42:54] *** Quits: holden- (~holden-@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2357[22:43:11] <greycat> If you've found a problem that's not shown on the page, and you have found it to be reproducible (not just unique to one of your systems), and think it might be a thing others will encounter, then adding it would be helpful.
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• 2360[22:49:52] <CutMeOwnThroat> they are not many
• 2361[22:49:52] <Boodie> I used to run programs as root by typing su -c "<command>" I understand it does not work any more; is there a work around?
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• 2364[22:50:13] <CutMeOwnThroat> which is a good thing™
• 2365[22:50:23] <greycat> You *really* want to use sudo for this. You are practically trying to reinvent sudo, badly.
• 2366[22:50:38] *** Joins: Malivaso (~Malivaso@replaced-ip)
• 2367[22:50:55] <greycat> Apart from that, see
• 2368[22:50:56] <Boodie> is sudo in buster by default?
• 2369[22:50:56] <greycat> !buster su
• 2370[22:50:57] <dpkg> In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). To approximate the previous behaviour, put "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" in /etc/login.defs. See replaced-url
• 2371[22:51:04] <annadane> no, Boodie
• 2372[22:51:07] <greycat> IF YOU INSTALL IT, YOU WILL HAVE IT
• 2373[22:51:12] <annadane> ^
• 2374[22:51:54] *** Quits: somazero (~somazero@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2375[22:52:36] <ZaZaGX> whats su -l
• 2376[22:52:44] <ZaZaGX> i only used su -
• 2377[22:53:15] <joepublic> same thing
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• 2381[22:54:32] <annadane> su -l, su - and su --login seem to be the same, but the man page doesn't reflect that, hence why i filed a bug on it
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• 2383[22:55:33] <greycat> It says it in my man page.
• 2384[22:55:40] <greycat> -, -l, --login
• 2385[22:55:40] <greycat> Start the shell as a login shell with an environment similar to
• 2386[22:55:40] <greycat> a real login:
• 2387[22:55:44] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip)
• 2388[22:56:15] <annadane> replaced-url
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• 2391[22:57:24] <ZaZaGX> okay i'm so confused
• 2392[22:57:43] <annadane> if you use su - then it's just less typing
• 2393[22:57:48] <annadane> use what you want
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• 2395[22:58:06] <annadane> i suppose you can also use su if you don't need to use anything in sbin
• 2396[22:58:12] <annadane> but most people will want su -
• 2397[22:58:16] <annadane> (or -l, or --login)
• 2398[22:58:27] <annadane> or alias su to whatever you want
• 2399[22:58:28] <greycat> most people want sudo -s, and simply don't know it yet
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• 2402[22:58:51] <greycat> a *few* people might actually want sudo -i or su -, but I'm not one of them
• 2403[22:59:13] <annadane> fair, i haven't heard of that, i'll look at it
• 2404[22:59:43] <greycat> annadane: near as I can tell, the parenthetical "instead of its shortcut -" is just the man page author trying to deprecate the legacy syntax, and does not imply that - is actually DIFFERENT from --login
• 2405[23:00:03] *** Quits: magic_ninja (~sparkie1@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2406[23:00:23] <greycat> sudo -s gives you a non-login shell as the target user, with PATH altered as sudo always alters it. It doesn't change directory.
• 2407[23:00:38] <greycat> sudo -i gives a login shell as the target, much like su -. It changes directory.
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• 2409[23:01:20] <annadane> so preserve root environment while also like sudo allowing one to run a command on the same line
• 2410[23:01:26] <annadane> sudo -s <command you need root for>
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• 2412[23:01:40] <CutMeOwnThroat> my user's password is hello123 so I don't want sudo ^^
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• 2414[23:02:14] <annadane> re: the man page, fair, but it's still a bit of confusing wording; i'll let the maintainers figure out if they want it changed or not
• 2415[23:02:31] <Boodie> So, if I run 'sudo <command>' I would get prompted the root password and the the command will be executed, right?
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• 2417[23:03:07] <greycat> No. You get prompted for your OWN password, assuming you're in the sudo group.
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• 2422[23:04:00] <annadane> my muscle memory is a certain way at this point and i don't particularly want to change now :P
• 2423[23:04:43] <greycat> As an extra bonus, sudo does not require wrapping shell quotes around your entire command, so you have one less layer of quoting hell to deal with.
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• 2425[23:06:43] <Boodie> Ok
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• 2432[23:12:22] <Randolf> I'm trying to install Debian Linux 10.2.0 (amd64) on an Intel S1200SPL motherbaord which comes with LSI RAID technology. I have two 6 TB hard drives mirrored, but when the installer tries to install GRUB it always fails. Plus, it lists the raw disks instead of the mp126p2 drive (entering /dev/mp126 or /dev/mp126p2 also results in failure).
• 2433[23:12:32] <Randolf> How can I get this to work? Thanks.
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• 2436[23:13:29] <ratrace> Randolf: I think that fakeraid stuff needs firmware
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• 2439[23:14:12] <Randolf> ratrace: I'll check for BIOS updates then. It's a new system, so I don't imagine I'm too far behind.
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• 2451[23:19:26] <CutMeOwnThroat> dpkg, fakeraid
• 2452[23:19:26] <dpkg> Fakeraid is a term used for controller cards that advertise RAID functionality that is NOT supported by a hardware chip for parity. Most of these have only a BIOS. For use with Debian systems, it is suggested that you do not set a RAID in the BIOS and don't use dmraid, just use regular software RAID instead; ask me about <md>. replaced-url
• 2453[23:19:38] <CutMeOwnThroat> mmh… factoid from 2010…
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• 2455[23:21:08] <Randolf> Seriously? The installer recognized and used the RAID array without any trouble. It's just that the GRUB installation part failed, and doesn't recognize the RAID device.
• 2456[23:21:30] <Randolf> My BIOS is from 2018. Hopefully there's an update that can resolve GRUB's problem.
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• 2476[23:35:41] <ratrace> Randolf: mdadm or some other software raid is way better than that fakeraid carp
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• 2479[23:38:50] <ZaZaGX> omg, i just meet an another linux user at starbucks.
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• 2482[23:39:55] <lupine> did you do the secret handshake?
• 2483[23:40:00] <Randolf> ratrace: I'm trying to get the BIOS update in, and this EFI Shell stuff isn't working. Damn.
• 2484[23:40:35] <ZaZaGX> no, he uses Ubuntu 19.04. not sure if he knows that much.
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• 2488[23:44:04] *** jim is now known as weejim
• 2489[23:44:04] <ZaZaGX> doh, i can't make my donation to wikipedia. i clicked on the donate button once. nothing loaded. is it an OS problem?
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• 2492[23:46:27] <jhutchins> Hm, CPU is 88% idle, it's either done or at a prompt.
• 2493[23:46:34] <jhutchins> (Should have done it in screen.)
• 2494[23:48:41] <Randolf> It's updating now. EFI Shell is implemented in such a silly way.
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• 2496[23:49:22] <AKUMO> I updated from debian 10 live to sid
• 2497[23:49:26] <AKUMO> all good
• 2498[23:49:35] <hatter_> when a filesystem is 100% full, why, after moving some data off, does it say it is still 100% full ? I have seen this happen rarely, but I don't understand it
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• 2500[23:49:45] <ZaZaGX> nice
• 2501[23:49:57] <AKUMO> df -h
• 2502[23:50:10] <hatter_> yep, df -h says 100%
• 2503[23:50:17] <hatter_> but I just moved a 25gb file off it
• 2504[23:50:24] <jhutchins> ZaZaGX: Try a different browser.
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• 2506[23:50:37] <jhutchins> ZaZaGX: If you've disabled java or something that can cause problems.
• 2507[23:50:45] <AKUMO> you can always (offtopic) i.e. my eMMC 32 gb flash with dd to a usb 3.0 pendrive
• 2508[23:51:00] <AKUMO> and get your distro always reflasheable
• 2509[23:51:18] <AKUMO> but the problem still in the size, of the both sides, indeed
• 2510[23:51:26] <ZaZaGX> yeah, i enabled javascript
• 2511[23:51:56] <AKUMO> if you flash 32 in 256 fail
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• 2515[23:53:43] <annadane> AKUMO, have fun, keep backups, if it breaks you get to keep all the pieces
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• 2523[23:56:53] <hatter_> why is the PATH gone on some buster installs but not others ?
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