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• 3[00:00:52] <format_c> This is the conflict: replaced-url
• 4[00:01:12] <format_c> Any idea how to get this solved?
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• 17[00:08:23] <themill> format_c: give aptitude "-t stretch-backports" to tell it to try to use that release in preference
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• 65[00:20:15] <format_c> themill, yeah this seem to do the trick
• 66[00:20:38] <format_c> at least now a get a solution that is solvable by aptitude
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• 84[00:31:59] <format_c> yeah anbox is now installed. Now I need to get the kernel modules include somehow....
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• 88[00:33:53] <astra`> replaced-url
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• 97[00:43:30] <onca> I am using dnsmasq to provide internet to a firetv via eth0 and I wonder how can I monitor the internet traffic like requests and dns servers from the device?
• 98[00:45:44] <justoneprimate> hello all
• 99[00:46:04] <justoneprimate> How is everyone this fine evening.
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• 105[00:47:17] <onca> I'm well.
• 106[00:47:33] <joepublic> I am well as well.
• 107[00:47:50] <justoneprimate> I'm a testing user, but am unable to join debian-next, as it says it is invite only
• 108[00:47:56] <justoneprimate> How do I get an invitation?
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• 110[00:48:16] <joepublic> debian-next is not hosted on this network.
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• 113[00:49:50] <justoneprimate> Ahh, ok.
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• 115[00:50:08] <justoneprimate> That makes sense then :)
• 116[00:50:18] <joepublic> well, to an extent, anyway
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• 120[00:52:08] <astra`> Kernel: ACPI Error: Method parse/execution failed \_SB.PCI0.RP08.PXSX, AE_NOT_FOUND (20170831/psparse-550)
• 121[00:52:30] <astra`> mind boggling
• 122[00:52:43] <joepublic> you mentioned that earlier, yes.
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• 124[00:53:46] <joepublic> the result of "let me google that for you" says not to worry about it, replaced-url
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• 126[00:53:56] <joepublic> so, I am curious whether it is a showstopper or just an interesting message.
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• 135[01:00:02] <daniel-s> I noticed that if I su into root, then apt-get something in buster I get these errors: dpkg: warning: 'ldconfig' not found in PATH or not executable
• 136[01:00:03] <daniel-s> dpkg: warning: 'start-stop-daemon' not found in PATH or not executable
• 137[01:00:03] <dpkg> daniel-s: That isn't enough detail, post the whole output to a pastebin (/msg dpkg pastebin).
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• 144[01:08:19] <astra`> replaced-url
• 145[01:08:29] <astra`> replaced-url
• 146[01:08:51] <astra`> since nobody seems to know in the respective place
• 147[01:08:57] <astra`> unfortunately
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• 162[01:17:29] <themill> daniel-s: use "su -" or sudo not just su
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• 170[01:22:58] <daniel-s> themill: thanks
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• 174[01:26:03] <KNERD> I guess there is a much older version of Docker in the repo for 9. I am getting an error for having version ="2.1" in the docker-compse.yml file
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• 178[01:26:47] <themill> docker isn't in Debian 9 at all
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• 181[01:29:25] <KNERD> oh? I did apt install docker docker-composer and bam....
• 182[01:29:40] <bites> ,i docker
• 183[01:29:41] <judd> Package docker (x11, optional) in stretch/amd64: System tray for KDE3/GNOME2 docklet applications. Version: 1.5-1+b1; Size: 12.5k; Installed: 41k
• 184[01:29:45] <bites> well...
• 185[01:30:33] <bites> ,v docker-compose
• 186[01:30:34] <judd> Package: docker-compose on amd64 -- stretch: 1.8.0-2; buster: 1.21.0-3; sid: 1.21.0-3
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• 188[01:30:44] <bites> this one is in stretch for some reason.
• 189[01:31:25] <KNERD> hmm
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• 191[01:31:53] <KNERD> Guess I will have to remove those and go with source
• 192[01:32:32] <bites> or you follow the upstream installation instructions.
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• 194[01:32:56] <KNERD> yes, true
• 195[01:33:00] <KNERD> thanks
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• 243[02:12:50] <TyrfingMjolnir> I'm running off of a debian 6; can I pacstrap debian 9 to a new volume?
• 244[02:13:25] <KNERD> buahahaahahahaah
• 245[02:13:33] <TyrfingMjolnir> from 6, i e
• 246[02:13:44] <TyrfingMjolnir> I just put a new SSD in the box
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• 248[02:15:05] <TyrfingMjolnir> No pacstrap installed in the squeze
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• 259[02:21:04] <KNERD> try version 8
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• 273[02:32:51] <TyrfingMjolnir> time cat /Users/gjermund/Downloads/debian-9.5.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso > /dev/rdisk2
• 274[02:32:53] <TyrfingMjolnir> in progress
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• 276[02:33:27] <KNERD> test an distro from 6 to 8 in a virtual machine
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• 279[02:35:06] <TyrfingMjolnir> Poor flexion of the English language?
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• 288[02:49:06] <MikeDebian> Just noticed libpam-smbpass is missing on Debian 9. Any reason for that? was the packaged replaced or renamed?
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• 314[03:24:16] <TyrfingMjolnir> I installed debian 9 and the installer appears to be OK
• 315[03:24:26] <TyrfingMjolnir> However when I reboot
• 316[03:24:52] <TyrfingMjolnir> The system goes into: grub rescue
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• 321[03:26:09] <TyrfingMjolnir> When I do ls I see (hd0) (hd1) (fd0) (fd1)
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• 330[03:32:04] <m_g_lewis> TyrfingMjolnir: Sounds like you need to run update-grub from a Live CD / DVD / USB...
• 331[03:33:24] <m_g_lewis> TyrfingMjolnir: And then
• 332[03:33:25] <m_g_lewis> grub-install /dev/sdX
• 333[03:33:27] <m_g_lewis> where /dev/sdX is your boot drive
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• 335[03:34:26] <TyrfingMjolnir> I'm now booting into the debian 9 installer USB
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• 338[03:35:27] <TyrfingMjolnir> update-grub not found
• 339[03:37:15] <m_g_lewis> From a Live Debian based CD / DVD / USB...Like maybe Knoppix?
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• 341[03:38:07] <TyrfingMjolnir> Oh
• 342[03:38:12] <TyrfingMjolnir> I have to download that one then
• 343[03:38:22] <TyrfingMjolnir> I tried to chroot into the newly installed system
• 344[03:38:55] <m_g_lewis> TyrfingMjolnir: Also you may want to look at this to fix it temporarily from the gru rescue mode...replaced-url
• 345[03:39:09] <m_g_lewis> *grub
• 346[03:40:13] <m_g_lewis> Sorry about the link replaced-url
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• 348[03:42:31] <agio> does anyone know how to remove all pending apt actions against all packages?
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• 350[03:46:05] <awal1> agio, "aptitude --keep-all" maybe?
• 351[03:46:27] <agio> nah, I think its not possible
• 352[03:46:32] <agio> thanks anyway
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• 354[03:47:24] <MikeDebian> at this point in time is safe to upgrade debian 8 from 3.16 kernel to 4.9
• 355[03:47:44] <MikeDebian> any issues known?
• 356[03:48:43] <awal1> !kernels
• 357[03:48:45] <dpkg> Linux kernel versions, mainline: 4.19, stable 4.18: 4.18.16, longterm 4.14: 4.14.78, longterm 4.9: 4.9.135, longterm 4.4: 4.4.162, longterm 3.18: 3.18.124 (EOL), longterm 3.16: 3.16.60, linux-next: next-20181101
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• 370[03:59:20] <MikeDebian> docker has failed to start with kernel 4.9...
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• 475[05:48:41] <MikeDebian> figured out the problem with debian 8 + kernel 4.9 + docker
• 476[05:49:31] <MikeDebian> kernel 4.9 uses overlay2 as storage driver instead of aufs used on 3.x kernels. it's then necessary to reconfigure or reinstall docker so it uses overlay2 instead of aufs...
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• 487[06:03:23] <KNERD> awesome
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• 491[06:09:47] <KNERD> Only problem I see is updating firefox to the newest version with does not have the addin Tab Mix Plus
• 492[06:11:01] <agio> yeah, that and any existing profiles will probably break
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• 494[06:11:18] <KNERD> Have not ran an update on my old Core 2 Duo with Debian 8 for about a year now./
• 495[06:11:52] <agio> did firefox v60 get pushed out to debian 8 ?
• 496[06:12:12] <KNERD> I am not sure. It sure did oon 9
• 497[06:12:32] <KNERD> Though I could switch to Waterfox which has not done that nreaking upgrade like irefox did
• 498[06:12:37] <agio> I just spent literally all day trying to update my stretch system - whilst at the same time - holding back the firefox upgrade
• 499[06:12:55] <agio> still have broken python dependencies
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• 501[06:13:09] <KNERD> You can just download and compile Waterfox
• 502[06:13:37] <KNERD> It will take in the profiles and be backwards compatable with tall the extensions
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• 504[06:13:54] <agio> what firefox is it based off?
• 505[06:14:03] <KNERD> Mozilla
• 506[06:14:10] <KNERD> which is based on Netscape
• 507[06:14:20] <KNERD> ih sorry
• 508[06:14:25] <agio> lol, sorry, I meant what firefox _version_
• 509[06:14:32] <KNERD> IIt is based off 59 OI think
• 510[06:14:57] <KNERD> It been around a fe yeats
• 511[06:15:11] <agio> im on firefox-esr v52 curretnly, and upgrade to 59 will break everything
• 512[06:15:15] <KNERD> Recently I no longer how to download and recompile
• 513[06:15:22] <KNERD> okay then it is before that
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• 515[06:15:40] <KNERD> It has really been making it into its own browser
• 516[06:15:52] <agio> yeah, 58 is the big breaking changes
• 517[06:15:55] <KNERD> no longer uses the firefox profile
• 518[06:16:00] <agio> (quantum)
• 519[06:16:35] <agio> you don't like firefox?
• 520[06:16:53] <KNERD> not the newest one
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• 522[06:17:04] <agio> why not?
• 523[06:17:15] <agio> because of all the breakages?
• 524[06:17:20] <KNERD> yeah
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• 526[06:17:47] <agio> its supposed to be faster
• 527[06:18:01] <KNERD> And I refuse to use that Spyware Google puts out
• 528[06:18:15] <KNERD> I dont notice any difference
• 529[06:18:31] <agio> google spyware - in firefox?
• 530[06:18:53] <KNERD> in the other browser
• 531[06:19:08] <KNERD> Chrome
• 532[06:19:25] <agio> oh, I see
• 533[06:19:53] <agio> what about chromium?
• 534[06:20:34] <KNERD> Not used it, and I won't because Google put things in the browser which are not compliant with w3c
• 535[06:21:02] <KNERD> and because so many mindless people using it, other companies adopt to what Google puts out in it
• 536[06:21:18] <KNERD> I have nearly cut myself from everything Google
• 537[06:21:41] <KNERD> their spying, data collection, and censorship
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• 539[06:22:24] <KNERD> Their Androis OS was recently caught still collecting your location even after you had disabled location
• 540[06:22:40] <KNERD> *Android
• 541[06:23:09] <agio> through wifi? or through GPS?
• 542[06:24:06] <KNERD> I am not sure. I did not even bother to read futher, as I am so disinterested in anything about them anymore, I am so disgusted
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• 544[06:25:23] <KNERD> replaced-url
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• 546[06:26:01] <KNERD> Seems they are doing it via cell tower location
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• 548[06:28:49] <agio> you only just found out about that?
• 549[06:29:01] <KNERD> no. it's been a while
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• 551[06:29:20] <KNERD> and now they are working with Chinese government to make a censored search engine
• 552[06:29:30] <agio> do you have an android device? you can disable that in wifi menu? its a hidden menu - of course
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• 554[06:29:57] <KNERD> Look where they are getting th data from...the cell towers, not wifi
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• 556[06:30:12] <KNERD> You turn that off, you got no working phone
• 557[06:30:44] <agio> oh, cell towers? I didn't know about that
• 558[06:30:58] <KNERD> I do have an Android phone, but I am going to go back to using my Windows Phone full time for a while
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• 582[06:58:48] <ikarosuusi> Hey I just noticed that my system is automatically installing stuff..
• 583[06:59:07] <ikarosuusi> but I don't have unattended-upgrade installed or never wished for that kind of behavior
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• 585[06:59:53] <KNERD> how do you know then?
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• 587[07:00:37] <ikarosuusi> Discover told me
• 588[07:01:01] <ikarosuusi> Why is automatic updates a "feature" in Debian 9?
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• 597[07:04:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1332
• 598[07:04:20] <KNERD> Is that is what is causing it?
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• 604[07:06:36] <ikarosuusi> KDE peoples told me it only shows what apt is doing
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• 612[07:13:18] <KNERD> I meant what you wee saying about automatic updates
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• 616[07:16:01] <milkt> is apt source "deb replaced-url
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• 618[07:17:07] <KNERD> seem to be same to me
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• 650[07:40:43] <awal1> milkt replaced-url
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• 655[07:51:22] <milkt> awal1, thanks for link. by the way, I already read that link before and was using "deb.debian.org/debian stretch main" "deb.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates main" "deb.debian.org/debian stretch-updates main".
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• 657[07:52:44] <milkt> I read this link today replaced-url
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• 663[07:56:42] <awal1> milkt, what you don't understand?
• 664[07:56:49] <jelly> !deb.debian.org
• 665[07:56:49] <dpkg> deb.debian.org is a mirror network that is backed by international content delivery networks and for most users, this is the most reliable <mirror> to use in the <sources.list>. From Debian 9 "Stretch" onwards, apt queries SRV records in DNS which then send it off to a CDN. Older apt will get an HTTP redirect from deb.debian.org to the same CDNs. See replaced-url
• 666[07:57:00] *** Joins: n4dir (~n4dir@replaced-ip)
• 667[07:57:11] <jelly> ^ is probably newer than docs on replaced-url
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• 669[07:57:46] <awal1> milkt deb.debian... versus security.debian... ?
• 670[07:58:50] <milkt> jelly, thanks for information. awal1, yes I was wondering whether is there difference between those two source, or which I should use.
• 671[07:59:30] <awal1> from deb.debian.org you install pkgs and get regular updates for installed packages; from security.debian.org you get security updates for installed packages
• 672[07:59:55] <jelly> awal1: deb.debian.org also provides foo/updates
• 673[08:00:21] <jelly> that's the part of deb.debian.org they seem to be asking about
• 674[08:00:31] <awal1> you need/should use both milkt
• 675[08:00:39] <awal1> jelly I don't get you
• 676[08:00:40] <jelly> <milkt> is apt source "deb replaced-url
• 677[08:00:43] <jelly> awal1: ^
• 678[08:01:32] <awal1> jelly, I never used deb replaced-url
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• 682[08:02:13] <awal1> is that a new thing provided via deb.debian?
• 683[08:02:55] <csehl> for some reason, my uxterm doesn't accept *faceSize, checking appres shows it though. launching uxterm, recieving "xterm -class UXTerm", checking "appres xterm"
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• 685[08:03:39] <jelly> awal1: I have no idea, it doesn't look new
• 686[08:03:56] <csehl> it accepts all the other *faceSize1 - 6, not the default one though
• 687[08:03:58] <awal1> i mean deb replaced-url
• 688[08:04:00] <jelly> it doesn't look newer than the rest of deb.debian.org
• 689[08:04:31] <BillyGates> yes awal1, you can replace that line with deb.debian
• 690[08:04:43] <awal1> replaced-url
• 691[08:04:49] <jelly> csehl: shouldn't you be checking appres UXTerm, then
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• 693[08:06:03] <csehl> jelly: maybe, checking that gives me a whole addtitional set of settings, which explain my misconfiguration. but where do these come from? not my .Xresources, that's for sure. must be some debian defaults
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• 696[08:06:11] <awal1> milkt, looks like you can have just deb replaced-url
• 697[08:06:12] <jelly> milkt: they ought to be equivalent and using just one should be enough. I don't know how reliable and uptodate debian-security mirrors accessed via deb.debian.org are.
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• 699[08:07:07] <awal1> deb replaced-url
• 700[08:07:11] <jelly> csehl: user's custom .Xresources only supplant the default app-defaults
• 701[08:07:17] <milkt> awal1, jelly, thanks.
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• 704[08:07:55] <jelly> csehl: locate app-defaults | grep UXT... /etc/X11/app-defaults/UXTerm
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• 708[08:09:33] <jelly> csehl: mind the #include "XTerm"
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• 710[08:09:47] <awal1> milkt, you can use "apt-setup"
• 711[08:10:00] <csehl> jelly: many thanks, that's it. finding the unwanted settings in /etc/X11/app-defaults/XTerm
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• 713[08:10:47] <csehl> jelly: what would be a smooth way of preventing the loading of them? i would asume these get overwritten on certain apt system-upgrades
• 714[08:11:09] <csehl> so modifying the app-defaults file itself is probably not a good idea
• 715[08:12:38] <jelly> csehl: you would have to copy all the other default settings into your ~/.Xdefaults
• 716[08:12:42] <jelly> er, ~/.Xresources
• 717[08:12:50] <jelly> if you deleted a file
• 718[08:13:09] <jelly> and even then xterm wuold be broken for any other user on the system
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• 720[08:13:15] <milkt> awal1, searched about "apt-setup" in packages.debian.org, and it says that apt-setup package is intended for debian-installer only and do not install on normal debian system
• 721[08:13:45] <jelly> there is no apt-setup package.
• 722[08:13:59] <jelly> ,v apt-setup
• 723[08:14:00] <judd> No package named 'apt-setup' was found in amd64.
• 724[08:14:05] <jelly> ,f bin/apt-setup
• 725[08:14:14] <jelly> ,file bin/apt-setup
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• 727[08:14:17] <judd> No packages in stretch/amd64 were found with that file.
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• 734[08:19:02] <awal1> milkt, seems you right right
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• 736[08:19:37] <awal1> I just heard about it, i thought it was for set up a souces.lit file in a normal system, nvm so
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• 741[08:20:29] <jelly> csehl: if those files are dpkg-managed "conffile" changes get overwritten automatically, dpkg will ask you what to do if a newer package version brings an updated file
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• 743[08:20:47] <awal1> seems it is debian-installer stuff, jelly
• 744[08:20:49] <milkt> awal1, yeah well, I can just include both sources for now. only asked because I don't want to miss any security updates
• 745[08:21:05] <jelly> csehl: [...] changes will* not* get overwritten automatically
• 746[08:21:50] <jelly> milkt: the security.debian.org one is enough, you should not need both
• 747[08:21:51] <awal1> milkt, this is correct replaced-url
• 748[08:21:57] <awal1> use that
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• 750[08:22:15] <jelly> milkt: and the other one is PROBABLY equivalent
• 751[08:22:46] <milkt> alright
• 752[08:22:46] <jelly> it's clearly supposed to be equivalent, I just can't vouch it works 100% and is not delayed
• 753[08:24:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1339
• 754[08:24:34] <csehl> jelly: ah, that's convenient then. many thanks o/
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• 766[08:32:27] <n4dir> usually i don't care for cgroup when using df or mount or such. Is there any other way to not see it besides | grep -v ?
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• 771[08:34:25] <jelly> I don't see any cgroup mounts in df output on stretch
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• 773[08:34:41] <jelly> mount yes, df no
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• 796[08:42:38] <agio> n4dir: please try: df --exclude-type=tmpfs
• 797[08:43:29] <n4dir> agio: thanks. straight forward.
• 798[08:43:31] <agio> although the excludes all tmpfs, e.g. /sys and /proc - dunno if thats what you wanted
• 799[08:43:44] <agio> s/the/that
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• 802[08:44:12] <n4dir> not what i asked for, but probably what i usually want. So perfect. Thanks again
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• 805[08:44:35] <agio> np
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• 823[08:54:58] <Freenoodle> systemctl start dovecot fails with " dovecot.service: Failed to run 'start' task: No such file or directory" but it doesn't say what file is missing. starting dovecot -F gives no output, is there some way to make systemctl more verbose to see what file it misses?
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• 851[09:10:21] <csehl> jelly: are those *vtMenu.Label: etc. settings really necessary for setting up the Ctrl-*Click menus? i would think, that Xterm has those naturally as well?
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• 861[09:14:03] <omarek> Hi I have a monitor problem "entering power saving mode" sometimes when I boot my computer, but I plugged in a coworker's monitor and it still happened. How do I check if it's ACTUALLY a monitor problem or the computer doesn't start? dmesg log?
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• 867[09:20:08] <n4dir> omarek: if the computer finishes the boot, you should be able to (for example) "ping" it from another machine in the LAN, then you could assume a monitor problem.
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• 882[09:27:13] <agio> has anyone else applied the recent security updated python packages in stretch? Im getting package conflicts when I try to upgrade
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• 889[09:29:37] <csehl> i am absolutely unable to find the setting that overrides my UXTerm default font. 'appres UXTerm': replaced-url
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• 896[09:31:52] <csehl> the *faceSize1-6 in the end are actively changing what i get when Ctrl-RightClicking -> font-size tiny-huge anything, but *faceSize: 10 is not being considered
• 897[09:32:30] <omarek> n4dir: I'll also try logging in on CTRL-ALT-F1 and 'touching' a file to prove I've logged in. But thanks, good idea.
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• 922[09:46:00] <vlt> Hello. In a (typical?) RAID10 => LUKS => LVM setup, where would you insert a fast SSD (or two of them as RAID1) as bcache device? And does the RAID10 then still make much sense or would you replace it with RAID5 or 6?
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• 983[10:27:41] <rant> vlt: I have no practical experience with this but raid levels 0, 10 are already enhancing throughput where the bcache is more useful on raid 5&6 as you suggest
• 984[10:28:22] <rant> vlt: and given the nature of this question you can ask it in other more general channels like ##linux or on a forum where you may reach a larger audience.. maybe even something like lkml
• 985[10:28:38] <vlt> rant: Ok, thank you :)
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• 989[10:32:29] <m_g_lewis> I ran a command in Debian Stretch that benchmarked apt repositories but I can't remember the name...Anybody know what it is?
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• 994[10:34:37] <n4dir> m_g_lewis: netselect-app ?
• 995[10:35:30] <m_g_lewis> n4dir: netselect-apt?s
• 996[10:36:27] <m_g_lewis> n4dir: I'll try that...
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• 999[10:36:40] <n4dir> ups, typo, sorry.
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• 1001[10:37:18] <m_g_lewis> :-)
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• 1010[10:44:34] <rant> one I knew was apt-spy but thats long gone now
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• 1024[10:52:08] <m_g_lewis> n4dir: netselect-apt was the right program...but it overwrites sources.list so you should back it up before running the command :-)
• 1025[10:52:53] <n4dir> m_g_lewis: ah, good to know. Gotta say: all i knew was something like that exists. I always have good connection, no matter which entries.
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• 1031[10:53:37] <n4dir> most of the time i backup all of /etc after the installation, btw.
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• 1036[10:54:49] <m_g_lewis> apt-cdrom is another usefull program...
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• 1068[11:20:10] <Greyztar> does debian with or without backports get kvm updates much later than centos?
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• 1070[11:21:47] <azamet> what is the options for hacking wifi (the best ones)
• 1071[11:21:50] <simbalion> can someone explain this error?: W: Download is performed unsandboxed as root as file '/var/cache/apt/archives/partial/mc-data_3%3a4.8.18-1_all.deb' couldn't be accessed by user '_apt'. - pkgAcquire::Run (13: Permission denied)
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• 1073[11:22:30] <ioummu> kvm in debian is stable
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• 1075[11:22:43] <ioummu> if you dont need be on bleeding edge
• 1076[11:22:57] <ioummu> then it is pointless question
• 1077[11:23:25] <Greyztar> ioummu: so stable emans it will get the kvm updates same time as centos then?
• 1078[11:23:37] <ioummu> security updates
• 1079[11:23:49] <ioummu> maybe faster
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• 1081[11:24:38] <Greyztar> ioummu: im just trying to figure out if id be lacking behind on functions noteworthy time if i choose debian with or without backports instead of centos
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• 1083[11:25:03] <ioummu> then use unstable debian
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• 1085[11:26:13] <ioummu> because backports does not about last versions
• 1086[11:26:20] <ioummu> fresh but not last
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• 1093[11:28:36] <Greyztar> ioummu: but would then centos be a stable os with latest kvm updates?Sorry if im not clear,i just want a hypervisor with latest kvm updates which is stable and dont need much hacking
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• 1095[11:30:15] <Greyztar> ioummu: also have to add im really found of debian based distros and would prefer to have that over centos as im more familiar with it
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• 1097[11:32:44] <rendar> any clue why i get this if i try to install a simple .deb package?! replaced-url
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• 1099[11:33:44] <Greyztar> rendar: think you are missing somepackits
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• 1101[11:34:05] <rendar> Greyztar: but i try to install them with apt-get install and it seems they don't exist..
• 1102[11:34:06] <rendar> how come?
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• 1104[11:35:27] <simbalion> I'm seeing permission denied errors on files that have proper permissions set, can someone help?
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• 1107[11:36:04] <Greyztar> rendar: often those errors come from packets installed which isnt from official repos,then it depends on other packets which isnt in repo also
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• 1109[11:36:51] <Greyztar> ioummu: thanks!
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• 1111[11:37:33] <rendar> Greyztar: so how i can fix this?
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• 1117[11:39:23] <Greyztar> rendar: i dont know if its allowed for me to say here since it isnt debian packet most likely,but what you can do is google the dependency,libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.4.0) and libpng12-0
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• 1121[11:40:20] <rendar> ok]
• 1122[11:40:32] <Greyztar> rendar: often the other packets also have dependency which you then need further google,it can be some work
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• 1127[11:45:35] <rendar> ok
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• 1164[12:05:08] <rendar> Greyztar: the thing is, i cannot tell apt to get a specific version of a package
• 1165[12:05:08] <rendar> E: Couldn't find any package by glob 'libgtk2.4'
• 1166[12:05:09] <rendar> E: Couldn't find any package by regex 'libgtk2.4'
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• 1168[12:05:20] <rendar> it seems also apt-get install libgtk doesn't work
• 1169[12:05:21] <rendar> how come?
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• 1176[12:09:53] <Greyztar> rendar: this is not supported in any way and it also might break your system mind you also security risk,but if adamant doing this you google your packet name including .deb,when you find them install with dpkg -i yourpacket.deb if want do this regardless
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• 1178[12:10:30] <rendar> Greyztar: i cannot get why debian must have so old packets
• 1179[12:10:35] <rendar> gtk 2.0.0 is from 1997
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• 1183[12:12:13] <Greyztar> rendar: hehe well i dunno,if want latest can use unstable i think or other distros,but i feel more comfortable with stable as it much tested etc
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• 1240[12:38:46] <simbalion> The wiki is broken
• 1241[12:38:56] <simbalion> how do I set nameservers?
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• 1243[12:39:41] <simbalion> nvm got it
• 1244[12:39:46] <simbalion> wiki is broken tho
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• 1252[12:44:43] <rant> in soviet russia, wiki breaks YOU!
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• 1254[12:46:33] <rant> I'm fairly certain of all the people here, you're the one most responsible for whatever wiki breakage you're talkin about.. considering wiki are pages users can edit..
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• 1274[12:58:44] <mrig> Hello.
• 1275[12:59:08] <mrig> Is firefox-esr 60 in the stretch repo?
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• 1285[13:00:47] <mrig> I have firefox packages held back from update in apt, I think perhaps language packs and esr 60 does not seem to be there; I have just instaled from the debian 9.5 live iso
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• 1288[13:01:38] <mrig> does the status [security] hear mean that there is an issue with it? replaced-url
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• 1297[13:02:46] <JyZyXEL> means it comes from the debian security repos
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• 1317[13:12:53] <rant> mrig: yes it is
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• 1319[13:13:02] <rant> ,v firefox-esr
• 1320[13:13:03] <judd> Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie-backports/firefox-release: 52.1.0esr-1~bpo80+1; wheezy-security: 52.8.0esr-1~deb7u1; jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; jessie-security: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch: 52.9.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 52.9.0esr-1; stretch-proposed-updates: 60.3.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 60.3.0esr-1~deb9u1; sid: 60.3.0esr-1
• 1321[13:13:47] <mrig> yZyXEL, is that still in testing then?
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• 1327[13:15:29] <rant> its in stable, testing, and unstable
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• 1329[13:16:18] <rant> security means its an update available from security.debian.org to address security issues in the stable release
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• 1358[13:37:28] <jolt> "/bar toggle buflist"
• 1359[13:37:31] <jolt> oops
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• 1362[13:38:05] <mrig> rant: Right so I need to install this then?
• 1363[13:38:38] <rant> mrig: if you are going to use FF on stable, I'd advise doing so, yes
• 1364[13:38:44] <mrig> I would like to not certain of how to, learning about the different repositories and how they are organised.
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• 1366[13:39:09] <mrig> do I need to add security to the apt source list?
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• 1369[13:40:07] <mrig> It does not show up at the moment in the update. I noticed that 9.5 comes with different configuration to 9.4, on the live cd at least
• 1370[13:40:28] <rant> there are three common official respositories for stable, the regular debian mirrors, the security repo, and the backports repo
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• 1374[13:41:26] <rant> then of the stable repositories, there are also three sections, main, contrib, and non-free and then there are several kinds of updates.. security and proposed updates
• 1375[13:41:45] <mrig> right, does the security repo get fixes first?
• 1376[13:42:03] <mrig> less stable perhaps but more attention to security?
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• 1378[13:42:18] <rant> no you misunderstand how it works
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• 1380[13:42:38] <Barones> Hi, how can I check which devices are recognized by a specific kernel? I wan't to know if strech 4.9 sees ps3 BT controllers
• 1381[13:42:50] <mrig> right, just trying to extrapolate how it works as I dont currently understand.
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• 1383[13:43:14] <rant> when a debian stable release is to be made.. as Buster will be releasing within the next 6mo, it gets frozen, and once all the release critical bugs are addressed the stable release is made, from that point on no version or changes are made to that release
• 1384[13:43:45] <rant> however packages are still coming into unstable and testing, and security related issues are patched and made available through security.debian.org
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• 1386[13:43:57] <jolt> Barones: Well, plug it in, use lsusb to see what the device ID is, and then search for it in the kernel
• 1387[13:44:01] <jolt> If thats an option
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• 1390[13:44:07] <Barones> hmm, so, rant , when does buster will be released?
• 1391[13:44:09] <mrig> I have some requirements from the backports repo too, but would like to better understand how this works also.
• 1392[13:44:18] <jolt> Barones: When it's ready.
• 1393[13:44:25] <mrig> Oh so it is best to use the security repo then?
• 1394[13:44:29] <rant> periodically point releases are made which roll all the latest security.debian.org fixes into releases like 9.4 and 9.5
• 1395[13:44:41] <jolt> Barones: replaced-url
• 1396[13:44:41] <Barones> Hi jolt , still is not an option, I'm still using mint
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• 1399[13:44:55] <rant> you can still get them via security.debian.org the point releases are just when they are all rolled into ISO and such
• 1400[13:44:56] <jolt> Barones: There is no usb in mint?
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• 1402[13:45:17] <rant> mrig: security is just a complementary repo.. as is the proposed updates
• 1403[13:45:21] <jolt> Barones: what you need is the device id from usb (if that is how it's connected)
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• 1405[13:45:35] <jolt> Barones: that is tied to the kernel and not the dist
• 1406[13:45:48] <rant> mrig: typically you should have 3 sources for stable, a stretch, stretch-updates and a stretch/updates
• 1407[13:45:49] <Barones> mint does use 4.15 kernel, and stretch 4.9, I trying to check if kernel 4.9 has ps3 controller firmware
• 1408[13:45:57] <mrig> ok, so firefox-esr 60 going in is quite recent then, as it is not in 9.5
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• 1410[13:46:09] <jolt> Barones: If you get the device id, then you can seach in the kernel tree for the device id.
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• 1412[13:46:39] <Barones> hmm, got it, thanks jolt
• 1413[13:46:45] <rant> no 60 has been out awhile now..
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• 1416[13:47:00] <rant> it was 60.2.x now its 60.3.x
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• 1422[13:47:22] <mrig> rant: Yes I have those, it is the the non-free and the contrib that seems to have been added in this version.
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• 1424[13:47:51] <rant> no, those are just different sections, they've been around for over a decade
• 1425[13:48:55] <mrig> Oh I mean that they are set on installing, it is the first time that I have noticed them set. Could well be that I was simply not aware of them in the past.
• 1426[13:48:59] <rant> mrig: the sections main, contrib and non-free have to do with liscensing.. Debian has something called the Debian Free Software Guidelines, and all software in debian's main section must comply with this.. however contrib and non-free are provisions for software that requires components that are not DFSG compliant or that are themselves not compliant
• 1427[13:49:20] <mrig> yes I see.
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• 1430[13:50:05] <mrig> So to add security I need to add a new url, with the same 3 stages?
• 1431[13:50:24] <mrig> oh no it is there
• 1432[13:50:54] <rant> replaced-url
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• 1434[13:51:05] <rant> you should have 3 sources like those I have
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• 1440[13:51:47] <mrig> Yes I have thosse
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• 1442[13:52:12] <mrig> So the tag is what is separating them from apt?
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• 1444[13:52:30] <mrig> stretch-update and stretch/update ?
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• 1446[13:52:53] <mrig> s/update/updates/
• 1447[13:52:58] <rant> the first is your primary debian packages, this is all that is Debian 9 Stretch, then you have the stretch-updates which is the same mirror but is a different repository for things that need frequent updates like web browsers, and stretc/updates come from security.debian.org and are for security patches for any and all packages
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• 1451[13:53:33] <rant> !stretch-updates
• 1452[13:53:33] <dpkg> well, stretch-updates is a suite providing updates to some packages (from <proposed-updates>) prior to a <point release>. All packages from stretch-updates will be included in point releases. replaced-url
• 1453[13:53:50] <rant> !stretch/updates
• 1454[13:53:50] <dpkg> On Deian 9 "Stretch" systems, there are two repositories that you should have in your sources.list aside from your main mirror. You should have an entry for "stretch/updates" which is security updates (ask me about <security>) and also an entry for "stretch-updates" which is other updated packages (see <jessie-updates>). See also <sources.list>.
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• 1457[13:54:14] <rant> mrig: feel free to /msg dpkg and ask the bot about all these things
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• 1460[13:54:29] <mrig> oh that is really nice!
• 1461[13:54:31] <rant> mrig: anything you see in brackets like that <> are other things you can ask about
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• 1464[13:55:14] <rant> mrig: you need to be in a channel with the bot for it to respond to you privately
• 1465[13:55:48] <mrig> so I pm the bot and then ask questions in private?
• 1466[13:56:15] <rant> yes to avoid disruption to the channel, you can speak to the bot privately any time you like as long as you're in a channel with the bot
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• 1469[13:57:00] <rant> if you should ever drop by and just want to ask the bot something you can come in here or #debian-bots then /msg dpkg hello
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• 1471[13:58:38] <mrig> Thank you for the explanation.
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• 1475[14:00:31] <mrig> Great I see the esr 60 packages downloading now.
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• 1479[14:01:02] <rant> mrig: you can also access dpkg's factoids on the web replaced-url
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• 1488[14:06:06] <jken> What is the easiest way to determine which package caused a particular dependent package to upgrade?
• 1489[14:06:31] <jken> ie. one of my packages depended on a new version of libapt-pkg5.0, and broke my system.
• 1490[14:06:37] <jken> but I am not sure which
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• 1497[14:09:37] <shynoob> ,v xbacklight
• 1498[14:09:38] <judd> Package: xbacklight on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.1.2-1; jessie: 1.2.1-1; buster: 1.2.1-1+b2; sid: 1.2.1-1+b2; stretch: 1.2.1-1+b2
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• 1500[14:10:12] <jelly> ,v libapt-pkg5.0
• 1501[14:10:13] <judd> Package: libapt-pkg5.0 on amd64 -- stretch: 1.4.8; buster: 1.7.0; sid: 1.7.0
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• 1504[14:10:42] <jelly> jken: what broke things was mixing a newer debian branch repo with an older installation
• 1505[14:10:44] <shynoob> how to lower the brightness of the screen from command line?
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• 1508[14:11:15] <shynoob> to all the wm users how did you set the Fn keys?? like what commands did you use?
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• 1513[14:11:21] <jken> jelly, I was afraid of this. Unfortunately, I really need pulseaudio 12 on debian stretch.
• 1514[14:11:22] <jelly> jken: it's not a direct answer but you can look at /var/log/apt*
• 1515[14:11:32] <jelly> ,v pulseaudio
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• 1517[14:11:33] <judd> Package: pulseaudio on amd64 -- wheezy: 2.0-6.1; jessie: 5.0-13; jessie-backports: 7.1-2~bpo8+1; stretch: 10.0-1+deb9u1; buster: 12.2-2; sid: 12.2-2
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• 1520[14:12:39] <jelly> jken: that particular machine is not stretch any more. A better option for the next time might be to try making a local build from buster or sid sources. This is called a "backport"
• 1521[14:12:54] <rant> shynoob: those fn keys are often controlled by the bios.. and backlight control can differ a bit by mfg.. but generally speaking its controled by a /sys/ or /proc/ interface
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• 1523[14:13:19] <greycat> We went over this yesterday, or maybe the day before.
• 1524[14:13:20] <jelly> !simple sid backport
• 1525[14:13:20] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
• 1526[14:13:24] <greycat> ,checkbackport pulseaudio
• 1527[14:13:25] <judd> Backporting package pulseaudio in sid→stretch/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 11).
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• 1529[14:13:29] <greycat> Same answer as before.
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• 1531[14:13:52] <jelly> PA is not too hard to backport, and there have been builds in jessie-backports in the past.
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• 1534[14:14:26] <jelly> ,v debhelper
• 1535[14:14:27] <judd> Package: debhelper on amd64 -- wheezy: 9.20120909; jessie: 9.20150101+deb8u2; jessie-security: 9.20150101+deb8u2; jessie-backports: 10.2.5~bpo8+1; stretch: 10.2.5; stretch-backports: 11.3.5~bpo9+1; buster: 11.5; sid: 11.5.1
• 1536[14:14:49] <shynoob> rant I meant.. if I could change it using specific commands.. then I'd bing tht specific command to the fn keys.. one by one
• 1537[14:14:59] <jelly> weird, judd ought to consider stretch-backports when doing that check
• 1538[14:14:59] <rant> shynoob: if you havent used such things before its usually as simple as echo "1" > /proc/foo or such.. look around in /proc/acpi/ and /sys/bus/acpi/ perhaps.. you can cat the files themselves to see their current value, and use echo and a redirect to change it
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• 1540[14:15:17] <shynoob> ok rank
• 1541[14:15:18] <shynoob> rant
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• 1543[14:15:29] <jken> jelly, so assuming I grab deb-helper from stretchbackports I should be able to build the deb from buster-src and install without making my system a frankendebian?
• 1544[14:15:44] <greycat> That's the goal.
• 1545[14:15:45] <rant> shynoob: you can't change those keys more than likely.. the bightness keys are generally not making a scancode, just directly interfacing with the BIOS or such
• 1546[14:16:04] <jken> greycat, sorry If i didn't get that when I asked yesterday, long day.
• 1547[14:16:11] <jken> I will try to go down that rabbit hole now.
• 1548[14:16:28] <shynoob> rant I did bind those keys with some commands earlier using different distro
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• 1551[14:17:48] <jken> jelly, greycat, would you recommend backporting from sid or busteR?
• 1552[14:17:58] <jken> both have pulseaudio 12.2
• 1553[14:18:14] <greycat> Shouldn't matter much.
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• 1555[14:18:27] <rant> shynoob: fair enough.. well either check the package manager for a utility or dig in the locations I mentioned for a direct kernel interface you can easily manipulate with built-in tools
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• 1559[14:18:39] <jken> Alright, I guess ill do buster just to stay closer to stable.. in my head anyway
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• 1564[14:21:10] <rant> things have standardized a bit more than in the past but there really is no universal mechanism at a hw level so utils or kernel interfaces still differ from one machine to the next at times
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• 1571[14:23:45] <shynoob> rant where would I find the built in tools
• 1572[14:24:01] <rant> as I explained before.. echo and cat
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• 1575[14:24:47] <shynoob> ok
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• 1578[14:26:22] <rant> if you want more specific help you kinda need to get more specific about the hardware.. I'm using a Lenovo Thinkpad X240 its not going to be the same if you are using an HP or Dell or something.. the tpacpi stuff isnt gonna help you any
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• 1584[14:27:46] <shynoob> rant: I use Lenovo Thinkpad L450
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• 1586[14:29:07] <shynoob> for some reason I cant change the contents of those file directly
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• 1605[14:37:25] <rant> figures you'd have one of the least documented models :P
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• 1614[14:40:12] <shynoob> rant: damn!
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• 1617[14:40:41] <shynoob> this is the 2016 model
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• 1619[14:40:48] <shynoob> and I barely see much about it online
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• 1646[14:51:27] <komunista> hi all
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• 1650[14:53:42] <rant> shynoob: yeah thinkwiki is my goto resource for thinkpads and that model isnt on there at all :P
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• 1652[14:54:26] <shynoob> lol yeah.. that's sad for me.. but in a way this model is unique :P
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• 1657[14:55:50] <rant> shynoob: look at the output of xrandr --prop and see if it mentions anything about backlight
• 1658[14:56:02] <rant> shynoob: if not, which mine doesnt, then even xbacklight isnt gonna help you
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• 1660[14:57:34] <rant> on mine the x240 I can find my /sys/ and /proc/ interfaces for say my keyboard backlight.. but offhand idk if I can even control my backlight on the LCD it seems at first glance its only controllable via the soft fn keys which do it via the bios
• 1661[14:58:24] <rant> and as I said earlier.. the OS sees a keystroke but those have no scancode so they cant be remapped
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• 1663[14:58:39] <shynoob> nope it doesnt
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• 1668[15:00:01] <rant> shynoob: you using the intel graphics on that?
• 1669[15:00:11] <rant> shynoob: this works for me, echo "100" > /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/brightness
• 1670[15:00:21] <rant> shynoob: you'd need to run that as root though to be able to write that file
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• 1674[15:01:44] <shynoob> ok
• 1675[15:02:04] <rant> cat /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/max_brightness tells me my max value is 851 (full bright) and 0 of course would turn it all the way off
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• 1677[15:03:02] <shynoob> rant permission denied using root
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• 1680[15:03:41] <rant> yeah that doesnt sound right
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• 1686[15:04:41] <storrgie> I'm on a new debian install and I'm likely missing a font package I need for this... syncthing web interface has icons that are likely font based, is there a font package that helps to provide these types of graphics?
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• 1689[15:05:27] <rant> shynoob: replaced-url
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• 1691[15:06:43] <shynoob> ah
• 1692[15:06:45] <rant> storrgie: you're not really making any sense
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• 1698[15:09:42] <shynoob> alright tht did it.. rant
• 1699[15:09:42] <storrgie> what is the preferred place to post screenshots, that probably will make sense
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• 1701[15:09:57] <shynoob> I used sudo.. it didnt work.. I became root.. and then it worked
• 1702[15:10:15] <storrgie> rant, replaced-url
• 1703[15:10:57] <rant> storrgie: yeah those do appear as though they might be as you said, fonts
• 1704[15:11:26] <storrgie> I'm nearly positive its font related, however I don't know what package to pull.. I snagged noto but I'm betting it is a common package people grab and forget about
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• 1706[15:13:37] <rant> ,bug 905562
• 1707[15:13:38] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 1708[15:14:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1399
• 1709[15:15:06] <storrgie> thanks rant, that actually was my first impression (to try and find a FA package)
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• 1711[15:16:06] <rant> ,v syncthing
• 1712[15:16:07] <judd> Package: syncthing on amd64 -- stretch: 0.14.18+dfsg1-2+b1; stretch-backports: 0.14.37+ds1-1~bpo9+1; buster: 0.14.51+ds2-5; sid: 0.14.51+ds2-5
• 1713[15:16:29] <rant> ,checkbackport syncthing
• 1714[15:16:43] <judd> Backporting package syncthing in sid→stretch/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: golang-github-rcrowley-go-metrics-dev, golang-github-prometheus-client-golang-dev (>= 0.9.0), golang-github-thejerf-suture-dev (>= 3.0.0), golang-github-syncthing-notify-dev, fonts-fork-awesome.
• 1715[15:16:58] *** Quits: shynoob (~shynoob@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 1716[15:17:17] <rant> ,v fonts-fork-awesome
• 1717[15:17:18] <judd> Package: fonts-fork-awesome on amd64 -- buster: 1.1.5+ds1-1; sid: 1.1.5+ds1-1
• 1718[15:17:48] * rant wonders wth people do stuff like this
• 1719[15:18:40] <storrgie> do stuff like, what? I'm curious... actually was nice to see you dig into this with irc queries (new to debian and dont quite understand how everything is interelated in packaging)
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• 1721[15:19:43] <rant> storrgie: well the long and short of it is, only way you're gonna get this to work is either run it in a buster chroot, find and manually install the awesome v5 font, or wait a few months for buster to release
• 1722[15:20:22] <storrgie> rant, i'm on unstable, so I'd assume it would happen sooner?
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• 1724[15:21:07] <rant> if you're on unstable 1) you should know how to do all this, 2) shouldnt be having this issue because it was fixed, and 3) are offtopic and should be asking questions in #debian-next on irc.debian.org ( irc.oftc.net )
• 1725[15:22:19] <rant> ,depends syncthing sid
• 1726[15:22:20] <judd> Package syncthing in sid/amd64 -- depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.2).
• 1727[15:22:28] <rant> @.@
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• 1730[15:22:51] <rant> why the ever-loving-firetruck.. does it not depend on fonts-fork-awesome
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• 1735[15:26:43] <storrgie> rant, maybe I'm not understanding the fundamental issue, but with fonts-fork-awesome installed I still have the same problem.
• 1736[15:27:06] <rant> yes well you're using something obviously made by retards
• 1737[15:27:25] <rant> which should be evident from the genius name "syncthing"
• 1738[15:27:48] <rant> and the fact that it has a bunch of build depends, but no actual depends
• 1739[15:28:03] <rant> they have nfc what they're doing
• 1740[15:28:18] <jken> They likely bundle the fonts on build..
• 1741[15:28:28] <jken> Looks like a web app stuffed into a package
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• 1745[15:29:02] <storrgie> well, yeah, has a web frontend... but yeah that makes sense jken
• 1746[15:29:04] <rant> I'm done with it.. my advice to you is this.. stop using that crap, install stable, or go to your email, file a bug for these idiots.. and start using #debian-next on irc.oftc.net
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• 1748[15:29:28] <storrgie> rant, I'll make inquiries over in #debian-next
• 1749[15:29:36] <rant> no, it really doesn't make sense.. they wouldnt have needed to get the font package packaged if they were going to build it into the damn thing :P
• 1750[15:30:12] <storrgie> packaging related inquiries... but this didn't seem like a package related one (it seemed more like I was just missing a font on my system that might be assumed if someone did tasksel gnome
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• 1752[15:30:41] <rant> yes well this channel supports debian stable, you're in the wrong place
• 1753[15:30:56] <rant> really you should be using stable cause as you admitted, you dont really know how to use debian
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• 1755[15:31:04] <rant> I've been using it since 2002 and I run stable
• 1756[15:31:28] <storrgie> I'm not familiar with how packaging is done, for sure
• 1757[15:31:37] <rant> once you know what you're doing you dont need to run testing/unstable other than in a vm perhaps for testing and bug reporting in your spare time
• 1758[15:32:42] <rant> you realize its better to have a stable system and larger support base and to work from there rather than aggrivate yourself and everyone else by using unstable regularly without knowing what you're doing then asking for help with it in a stable support channel
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• 1764[15:39:27] <greycat> !sns
• 1765[15:39:27] <dpkg> Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>.
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• 1767[15:40:06] <Andrew_0010bit> dpkg, good bot.
• 1768[15:40:07] <dpkg> Andrew_0010bit: aw, gee
• 1769[15:40:14] <Andrew_0010bit> I was joking.
• 1770[15:40:19] <Andrew_0010bit> I just got my fucking bluff called.
• 1771[15:40:26] <Andrew_0010bit> That's awesome.
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• 1783[15:47:50] <storrgie> likely going to throw gas on the fire here, but I was just mucking about with untested as of today (i'm coming from another distro trying to gain understanding), I had the same issue on buster with this pacakge (as far as I can tell). I'm provisioning another system to check.
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• 1785[15:48:15] <jken> buster is not stable, stretch is
• 1786[15:48:18] <greycat> it is not a surprise if testing and unstable both have the same problem at the same time
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• 1789[15:48:36] <greycat> it is also not a surprise if testing has MORE bugs than unstable
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• 1791[15:49:12] <storrgie> thats a good point, I'd started with testing install media with intent to check out testing/unstable
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• 1882[16:33:34] <danielboston26> i cannot boot into my debian usb key that i created using etcher
• 1883[16:34:15] <danielboston26> i have disabled secure boot and switched boot to both ufi and legacy
• 1884[16:34:34] <danielboston26> is there an issue with the image? im using debian testing amd64
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• 1886[16:35:14] <jelly> danielboston26: don't use helper tools. Write the image directly to the whole USB stick device with cp.
• 1887[16:35:24] <jelly> !usb install
• 1888[16:35:25] <dpkg> You can install Debian from a USB stick/thumbdrive/pen drive/key on x86 systems, as long as your system's BIOS can boot from USB. Details are in the Installation Guide, see replaced-url
• 1889[16:35:55] <Barones> guys, I'm pretty lost about ps3 controller driver, ps3 controller is connected to pc through usb, I can see it through lsusb and dmesg | grep sony with no error, but I buttons won't work, looking for answer none is clear enough, has anyone experienced it? How can I setup buttons or read buttons commands?
• 1890[16:36:05] <danielboston26> well i have a thinkpad t580 so im pretty sure it can booth from usb
• 1891[16:36:25] <jelly> danielboston26: if you're writing the usb from windows, use something like
• 1892[16:36:31] <jelly> !win32diskimager
• 1893[16:36:32] <dpkg> win32diskimager is much more reliable than <unetbootin> for copying ISO images to USB sticks and you can download it from replaced-url
• 1894[16:37:04] <danielboston26> alrighty ill try that
• 1895[16:37:32] <jelly> danielboston26: it can boot from usb alright, but Debian images get confused when a tool like unetbootin, rufus, or I guess etcher moves things around
• 1896[16:37:50] <jelly> also, weekly testing images may or may not work
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• 1901[16:38:44] <jelly> but amd64 weekly image from 2018-10-29 worked for my UEFI capable proliant server last week.
• 1902[16:38:57] <danielboston26> well ill try win32 and see
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• 1904[16:39:05] <danielboston26> if it doesn't work ill try a different image
• 1905[16:39:24] <jelly> !firmware images
• 1906[16:39:24] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See replaced-url
• 1907[16:39:34] <danielboston26> it might be etcher i also had issues booting a hp computer
• 1908[16:39:37] <jelly> you will probably need those if you expect wifi to work
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• 1910[16:39:52] <jelly> dunno if T580 has wired ethernet
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• 1912[16:39:59] <danielboston26> it does
• 1913[16:40:17] <jelly> that's one thing better than X1 already
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• 1915[16:40:53] <danielboston26> so theres a different link for the nonfree drivers?
• 1916[16:41:48] <greycat> !firmware images
• 1917[16:41:48] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See replaced-url
• 1918[16:42:04] <danielboston26> i guess thats a yes
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• 1920[16:43:01] <danielboston26> i know it should work ubuntu has already certified that the hardware works with 16.04 lts so i know it does work with linux
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• 1936[16:49:36] <danielboston26> so does the non free image contain debian or just the non free drivers?
• 1937[16:49:58] <greycat> It contains the Debian installer, the standard set of packages, and the non-free firmware.
• 1938[16:50:01] <joepublic> it is debian + non-free firmware
• 1939[16:50:06] <danielboston26> ok
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• 1943[16:51:09] <joepublic> Interestingly, the "Veteran Unix Administrators" who made a sort of debian fork recently extol the virtues of free software on their website but include non-free packages on all their official installation media. Not so with Debian, which is free software.
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• 1947[16:52:51] <n4dir> pretty sure that pretty much any distro based on debian does so.
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• 1949[16:53:21] <mason> It's nice when hardware works.
• 1950[16:53:30] <joepublic> I guess I had higher expectations for that one because it claims to be "debian without" certain packages that they dislike.
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• 1954[16:54:21] <joepublic> mason, exactly. That's why hardware makers need to release specs. That way driver writers can make drivers for all operating systems (not just non-free ones!)
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• 1956[16:55:35] <n4dir> dyne:bolic was or is free software only, iirc (might even be some of that project are part of devuan project too, but i never cared enough to investigate). You might wanna ask them what they do and why, and such.
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• 1959[16:57:05] <joepublic> dynebolic is free software recommended by the fsf like trisquel.
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• 1964[16:58:24] <mason> joepublic: They don't strictly *need to*, but it would be better if they did, because then it'd be easier to have free software fill the gap, yes.
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• 1968[17:00:45] <joepublic> mason, They "need to" for the hardware to work as expected, that's all--whether they do or not is of course their choice.
• 1969[17:01:21] <sangy> anyone has a link to the docs to python-apt? I can't seem to find it. PyPI's is using alioth and I can't seem to find the equivalent on salsa
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• 1986[17:06:17] <shynoob> ,v Godot
• 1987[17:06:18] <judd> No package named 'Godot' was found in amd64.
• 1988[17:06:21] <shynoob> damn
• 1989[17:06:27] <greycat> Keep waiting.
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• 1992[17:07:00] <noln> mason, it's not mandatory by law, but not a favor either, it's respect for one's users
• 1993[17:07:31] <shynoob> greycat thats bad.. you gotta add tht to the repo..
• 1994[17:07:51] <greycat> My joke was bad? Or... what?
• 1995[17:07:52] <shynoob> who takes package requests
• 1996[17:08:11] <greycat> Come on, *someone* had to get it.
• 1997[17:08:12] <jelly> dpkg, hotplug ram is <reply>free; echo online | tee -a $(grep -l offline /sys/devices/system/memory/*/state | sort -V) ; free
• 1998[17:08:13] <dpkg> jelly: okay
• 1999[17:08:14] <shynoob> joke was good.. but you gotta .. buckle up.. and get working
• 2000[17:08:15] <n4dir> greycat: not sure how common beckett is in these times.
• 2001[17:08:24] <jelly> dpkg, memory hotplug is <reply>see hotplug ram
• 2002[17:08:25] <dpkg> jelly: okay
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• 2004[17:08:40] <nickgaw> Hi, Is there a way to make all users as this is my own laptop have access to all hardware devices including audio and disc drives like DVD RW drives?
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• 2009[17:10:53] <mason> noln: It's not the company's job to supply specs. It's the customer's job to demand specs and vote with their wallets.
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• 2012[17:11:26] <noln> nickgaw, add them to the group "disk" in order to access /dev/sda, video for /dev/video0 webcam, etc. Can't remember for cd but ''ls -l /dev/sr0'' it comes after root
• 2013[17:11:49] <joepublic> mason, little of both I'd say. I remember the old old days when almost all hardware came with books (not info sheets) that had deep, informative reference sheets in the back, making it pretty easy to write drivers.
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• 2015[17:11:58] <nickgaw> What about audio and USB flash drives?
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• 2017[17:12:39] <jelly> nickgaw: a user that logs in at the GUI login screen usually autonatically gets access to those
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• 2020[17:13:15] <nickgaw> I mainly use console as I am totally blind and have windows 10 for GUI things or my mac.
• 2021[17:13:23] <jelly> nickgaw: if you add them to relevant groups manually, they can access those devices even logged in remotely via ssh
• 2022[17:13:38] <mason> joepublic: That'd be ideal certainly, and it'd be a good selling point generally. Even better would be for companies to release free software drivers for their own stuff.
• 2023[17:13:44] <noln> mason, it's offtopic here but the industry's job is to provide a tool, although most of the industry is led by narcisists who tell otherwise (sell services etc) to compensate for not doing their job. But that's OT for this chan
• 2024[17:13:53] <greycat> Doesn't even have to be a GUI login. Just logging in on the text console appears to add me to the ACL for /dev/sr0.
• 2025[17:14:05] <jelly> nickgaw: console groups may setting may or may not be broken, I don't know
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• 2028[17:14:47] <mason> noln: The ethics and necessity of the firmware- ISOs are closer to on-topic, but I have to imagine lots of violent agreement, differing only in details.
• 2029[17:14:55] <jelly> greycat: I don't know how one mounts usb sticks at the console without root
• 2030[17:14:57] *** Quits: paulgrmn__ (~paulgrmn@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 2031[17:15:04] <n4dir> pmount
• 2032[17:15:06] <mason> jelly: udev rules can accomplish it, no?
• 2033[17:15:08] <greycat> I don't either. Never tried. I just use sudo mount.
• 2034[17:15:15] <jelly> pmount is an extra package to install
• 2035[17:15:32] <nickgaw> Why when I post to linux mailing lists about paid voice synthesizers that sound a lot better then espeak do I get yelled at and am told just use free software even if it is not the best to understand?
• 2036[17:15:38] <jelly> and udev rules are extra rules to udev^H^H^H^H configure
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• 2038[17:15:52] <mason> jelly: TANSTAAFL! :)
• 2039[17:16:02] <joepublic> nickgaw: I wouldn't doubt it.
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• 2042[17:16:38] <nickgaw> but it is my system so should I be able to do what I want?
• 2043[17:16:41] <jelly> nickgaw: consider free software enthusiasts as kids in their separate tiny playground with separate sand
• 2044[17:16:53] <joepublic> nickgaw: you do what you want on your system.
• 2045[17:17:19] <nickgaw> I mean for support they won't help me get things working properly.
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• 2047[17:17:36] <greycat> unsurprising
• 2048[17:17:54] <joepublic> nickgaw: Well, of course, just as you can do what you want, so can they. That does not mean that random other people will make good choices. Many don't.
• 2049[17:17:56] <jelly> nickgaw: well, it's a social and technical issue. But mostly social.
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• 2053[17:18:51] <nickgaw> I have not as of yet bought any synthesizers and won't until both the company and or other users try to help me out.
• 2054[17:19:20] <jelly> nickgaw: I suspect if you go "I'm fucking blind and need a tool that actually works and that I can understand" that might give some of those people a pause
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• 2056[17:19:41] <noln> nickgaw, you're not paying them, so they don't owe you anything even morally. that's different from hw support if it was a reference
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• 2058[17:19:47] <EdePopede> if you *pay* for it, shouldn't the company that gets your money be the first to help you out?
• 2059[17:20:29] <nickgaw> true but playing around with the demos I would have thought they would help me in setting itup as if so I would buy it.
• 2060[17:20:51] <joepublic> It would be nice to have something that had good community support. That helps a lot. Without good community support you can feel very alone. If the community support is downright hostile, that makes it even more important to find good vendor support in place of the community support.
• 2061[17:21:04] <jelly> ^
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• 2063[17:21:35] * jelly wonders which tool translates "caret" as "what he said"
• 2064[17:21:36] <EdePopede> noln: NACK. that's exactly when moral comes in, since it superseeds (correct?) what the law forces on them.
• 2065[17:22:17] <greycat> The free software community is *definitely* not morally obligated to support some non-free hardware or software product.
• 2066[17:23:06] <jelly> sometimes they're also not obligated not to be dicks
• 2067[17:23:07] <noln> ^ and how much moral is blaming others for not returning demanded unpaid support?
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• 2070[17:23:35] <EdePopede> it isn't
• 2071[17:23:46] *** Joins: datasmurf (~datasmurf@replaced-ip)
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• 2073[17:24:08] <jelly> greycat: and a business with a prospective customer in sight is a LOT more polite than, say, this channel or a random forum can be
• 2074[17:24:11] *** Quits: AimHere (~David@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 2075[17:24:12] <EdePopede> you can accept it or not. if you don't, they probably won't like you too much.
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• 2077[17:24:32] <jelly> this is one thing commercial products do better
• 2078[17:24:41] <mason> Suggestion: Contact SPI and see if they'll organize a fundraiser to buy developer time for free drivers for WidgetFoo.
• 2079[17:24:44] <mason> !spi
• 2080[17:24:45] <dpkg> Software in the Public Interest (SPI) is the umbrella organization for Debian and other Free Software projects. replaced-url
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• 2083[17:25:57] <noln> EdePopede, being likable is often not a good sign. but going ot again. afk
• 2084[17:27:17] <EdePopede> neither is the opposite, noln ;)
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• 2087[17:28:46] <jelly> debian-users ought to be decent enough to try helping a user with anything they want to put on their Universal Operating System installation
• 2088[17:29:10] <jelly> I mean people put oracle db on Debian for some unfathomable reason
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• 2093[17:30:43] <abrotman> I've done it!
• 2094[17:31:08] <jelly> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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• 2098[17:32:15] <yang> Hi, I would like to get my soundcard working in ALSA...Could I get some assistance
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• 2100[17:32:30] <yang> I have speakers plugged in over the jack
• 2101[17:33:06] *** Quits: colinjmatt (~colinjmat@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 2102[17:33:20] <joepublic> jelly: "there are cases where people want or need to put non-free software on their machine. Whenever possible Debian will support this." - replaced-url
• 2103[17:33:49] <jelly> joepublic: exactly, that's kind of the point of an operating system
• 2104[17:34:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1398
• 2105[17:34:12] <joepublic> People see that, get all happy, and say "hey where's the Oracle install stuff?"
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• 2113[17:36:46] <jelly> "step 1, put OL7 in a chroot, step 2, chroot into it and install one single dependency package, step 3. install your thing"
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• 2115[17:37:18] <joepublic> step 1, install virtualbox; step 2, create a virtual centos machine...
• 2116[17:37:44] <jelly> but you don't get a yum install onepackageonly with CentOS
• 2117[17:38:00] <jelly> and vbox makes things slower
• 2118[17:38:26] *** Quits: roshanavand (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2119[17:38:29] <jelly> I'll give you, dunno, lxc or systemd-nspawn or even docket
• 2120[17:38:33] <jelly> docker
• 2121[17:38:40] <joepublic> You are right, and I repent of having encouraged the conversation off-topic.
• 2122[17:39:13] <jelly> a little offtopic is okay if there's noone asking support questions like yang just did
• 2123[17:39:18] <noln> dnf --installroot=... @Standard packagename then chroot/firejail
• 2124[17:39:30] *** Quits: sanches (~sanches@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 2125[17:39:50] <jelly> yang: laptop?
• 2126[17:39:55] <noln> arch has pacstrap or pacman --root iirc. idk whether debian has a single-pkg install command though
• 2127[17:39:57] <jelly> anyhoo
• 2128[17:40:06] <jelly> !alsa checklist
• 2129[17:40:06] <dpkg> 1) add yourself to the 'audio' group (log out & in again) 2) unmute and raise channels w/ alsamixer (also try muting some & toggle jack sense if available) 3) <pulseaudio> or other daemon stopped? 4) speakers on? 5) does "aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Noise.wav" work for root? 6) purge any installed <oss4> packages to remove ALSA blacklist. See also <list alsa users>, <alsa firmware>.
• 2130[17:40:54] <jelly> noln: the context was single package install of all the tiny 32bit, 64bit and 48bit deps that a certain commercial db wants
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• 2133[17:42:27] <noln> ah sorry
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• 2155[17:50:52] <jelly> !qotd0
• 2156[17:50:52] <dpkg> <greycat> BIG FUCKING HUGE MISTAKE telling me you have gcc 4.0 and that you can't fucking read the FAQ.
• 2157[17:51:35] <joepublic> Your point is well made and taken.
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• 2170[18:03:24] <jken> How do I install debhelper-compat? Pulseaudio depends on it but I can't seem to find it in the package list for any debian release. I do have debhelper >=11 installed from stretch-backports..
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• 2173[18:04:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1399
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• 2177[18:05:39] <n4dir> jken: someone in the IRC channel #packaging told me a nice trick. Bad news: i forgot it. You might want to ask there (it's the oftc network, not freenode). good luck
• 2178[18:05:46] *** Quits: mklvr (~mklvr@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 2179[18:05:47] <jelly> ,provides debhelper --release stretch-backports
• 2180[18:05:49] <judd> Package debhelper in stretch-backports/amd64 provides: debhelper-compat (= 9), debhelper-compat (= 10), debhelper-compat (= 11).
• 2181[18:05:58] <jelly> jken: just install that
• 2182[18:06:10] *** Joins: eexez (~eexez@replaced-ip)
• 2183[18:06:14] <jken> I have that installed :/ I did `apt-get install -t stretch-backports debhelper`
• 2184[18:06:20] <jelly> that's it then
• 2185[18:06:48] <jelly> does debuild / dpkg-buildpackage still fail or what?
• 2186[18:06:59] <jken> But when I `aptitude build-dep pulseaudio` it says unable to satify, build depends: debhelper-compat (=11)
• 2187[18:07:33] <jelly> that's because that old version of aptitude is buggy dealing with versioned Provides
• 2188[18:07:37] <jken> I am trying to follow the instruction from this:
• 2189[18:07:40] <jken> !simple sid backports
• 2190[18:07:40] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
• 2191[18:07:45] <jken> ahh
• 2192[18:08:02] *** Joins: l1nuxg33k (uid322116@replaced-ip)
• 2193[18:08:16] <jelly> jken: uh, try apt build-dep instead, if thast fails as well install the build deps manually
• 2194[18:08:27] *** Joins: roshanavand (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 2195[18:09:00] <jken> seems to be actually doing stuff now.
• 2196[18:09:39] <jelly> congrats, you found the one thing aptitude does worse than apt in stretch
• 2197[18:09:49] <annadane> blasphemy
• 2198[18:09:52] *** Quits: sanches (~sanches@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 2199[18:10:21] * jken prays to the debian gods for this package to compile
• 2200[18:10:24] * jelly tries to aptitude build-dep in buster just to see if it's still buffy
• 2201[18:10:27] <jelly> buggy!
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• 2205[18:14:01] <jelly> ahahaha
• 2206[18:14:08] <jelly> [18:13] ~ # aptitude -s build-dep pulseaudio
• 2207[18:14:08] <jelly> Unable to satisfy the build-depends: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 11)
• 2208[18:14:16] <jken> heh
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• 2213[18:16:41] <tmroland> how do i install spotify on debian ? i enabled repos, updated, followed all steps and it says spotify-client cannot be found
• 2214[18:17:31] *** Joins: spackle259 (~spackle25@replaced-ip)
• 2215[18:17:54] <jken> tmroland, are you sure apt-get update succeeded?
• 2216[18:17:59] <tmroland> yea
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• 2219[18:18:19] <tmroland> Err:2 replaced-url
• 2220[18:18:21] <tmroland> The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY A87FF9DF48BF1C90
• 2221[18:18:22] <jken> What does `/etc/apt/sources.list.d/spotify.list` look like?
• 2222[18:18:32] <jken> ah, did you:
• 2223[18:18:34] <jken> sudo apt-key adv --keyserver hkp://keyserver.ubuntu.com:80 --recv-keys 931FF8E79F0876134EDDBDCCA87FF9DF48BF1C90
• 2224[18:18:45] <tmroland> should i do that before ?
• 2225[18:18:49] <jken> Yes,
• 2226[18:18:50] *** Joins: nunatak (~nunatak@replaced-ip)
• 2227[18:18:55] <jken> you need their key imported to verify their package
• 2228[18:19:11] <jken> s/package/repo
• 2229[18:19:18] <tmroland> works :D
• 2230[18:19:19] *** Quits: hanasaki (~hanasaki@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 2231[18:19:20] <tmroland> thanks a bunch man
• 2232[18:19:36] <jken> I am usually here asking for help, happy to help for once. :)
• 2233[18:19:54] <tmroland> appreciated
• 2234[18:19:57] <tmroland> thats why most are here
• 2235[18:20:03] <tmroland> help each other
• 2236[18:20:05] <tmroland> and learn
• 2237[18:20:13] *** Quits: danielboston26 (~danielbos@replaced-ip) ()
• 2238[18:20:42] <tmroland> whats best software to run windows games atm ?
• 2239[18:20:50] <tmroland> i mean a complete wine + tools + gui package
• 2240[18:20:55] <tmroland> thats like just setup and run
• 2241[18:20:56] *** Joins: kisslo (~kisslo@replaced-ip)
• 2242[18:21:09] <jken> unsure if this is the furthest I've ever gotten into the pulseaudio 12.2 compiliation, or if it just that much slower on this intel atom machine compared to my i7 workstation xD
• 2243[18:21:32] <jken> tmroland, I know little about that space, but have run into this replaced-url
• 2244[18:21:42] *** Joins: shynoob (~shynoob@replaced-ip)
• 2245[18:21:54] <tmroland> i was thinking about that too
• 2246[18:21:56] <tmroland> ill try it
• 2247[18:22:02] *** Joins: hanasaki (~hanasaki@replaced-ip)
• 2248[18:22:10] <shynoob> they say the godot engine is being packaged.. how'd ya know the status?
• 2249[18:22:39] <shynoob> or something to track or help ?
• 2250[18:22:50] *** Joins: faw (~faw@replaced-ip)
• 2251[18:22:50] <jhutchins_wk> ,v godot
• 2252[18:22:51] <judd> No package named 'godot' was found in amd64.
• 2253[18:23:07] <shynoob> replaced-url
• 2254[18:23:16] <jhutchins_wk> shynoob: There's a packagers mailing list, and an announce list.
• 2255[18:23:33] *** Quits: spackle259 (~spackle25@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
• 2256[18:24:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1407
• 2257[18:24:38] <shynoob> jhutchins_wk, do I need an email ID for that
• 2258[18:24:39] <shynoob> ?
• 2259[18:24:51] <jhutchins_wk> ,v godot3
• 2260[18:24:52] <judd> No package named 'godot3' was found in amd64.
• 2261[18:24:54] *** Quits: jasperarcola (~JasperArc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 2262[18:25:14] <jhutchins_wk> I notice the link in the statement about the package is 404
• 2263[18:25:36] <shynoob> same
• 2264[18:25:36] <shynoob> yes
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• 2271[18:27:30] *** Quits: hanasaki (~hanasaki@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2272[18:28:18] <jhutchins_wk> shynoob: replaced-url
• 2273[18:28:22] *** Quits: roshanavand (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2274[18:28:59] <jhutchins_wk> shynoob: He's the one editing that page, that would be a place to start.
• 2275[18:29:24] <shynoob> ok thanks
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• 2281[18:31:09] <shynoob> looks like he's online but afk
• 2282[18:31:27] *** Quits: colinjmatt (~colinjmat@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2283[18:31:33] <jken> jelly, couple errors at the end.. but i have a ton of pulseaudio-12 debs now compiled on stretch. These debs all depend on eachother. Do I need to trial and error until I get them installed in the right order, or is there a utility for that as well?
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• 2286[18:32:12] *** Joins: Peyam (~Peyam@replaced-ip)
• 2287[18:32:26] <jken> or will `apt-get install ./*.deb` sort our the dependencies and install in the right order?
• 2288[18:32:26] <Peyam> Hi, Im trying to install redis desktop manager on debian. Can I use snap?
• 2289[18:33:34] *** Quits: devbaka (~devbaka@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 2290[18:33:42] <jelly> jken: you can try that first. I don't remember whether apt-get can deal with .deb files or just apt does.
• 2291[18:34:06] <jken> are the apis close to the same? ie. apt install ./*.deb ?
• 2292[18:34:22] <Peyam> sudo
• 2293[18:34:23] <jelly> they should be
• 2294[18:34:34] <Peyam> sudo dpkg -i *deb
• 2295[18:34:48] <Peyam> and sudo apt install -f for dependencies
• 2296[18:35:02] <jelly> Peyam: debian does not have sudo all the time, it's implied some stuff has to be run as root
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• 2299[18:35:25] <Peyam> then try " su root"
• 2300[18:35:29] <Peyam> and then do the same thing
• 2301[18:36:13] <annadane> # this is not a comment, run it as root
• 2302[18:36:34] <annadane> sorry; being silly
• 2303[18:36:36] <Peyam> # means root yes
• 2304[18:36:42] <jelly> Peyam: I suspect we're beyond that point, there's more context you did not read
• 2305[18:36:47] <Peyam> sorry
• 2306[18:36:58] <jken> We are making assumptions about shells/prompts now too :P
• 2307[18:37:00] *** Joins: the_sauron_eye (~Vingud@replaced-ip)
• 2308[18:37:05] <Peyam> :P
• 2309[18:37:06] *** Parts: yang (~yang@replaced-ip##) ("Free yourself with Free Software, join ##replaced-url
• 2310[18:37:21] <noln> tmroland, q4wine
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• 2315[18:38:48] <jelly> Peyam: snapd package exists for debian and provides the snap tool, but I have no idea what this redis desktop manager thing does or how well its snaps are made
• 2316[18:39:24] *** Joins: tmroland (~tmroland@replaced-ip)
• 2317[18:39:55] <jelly> Peyam: have you tried to do something like "apt-cache search redis desktop" and see if it's perhaps packaged and in the distro
• 2318[18:40:03] <tmroland> yea thnx but thats qt and imaintain a pure gnome system
• 2319[18:40:08] <tmroland> i installed play on linux
• 2320[18:40:29] *** Joins: _anb (~anb@replaced-ip)
• 2321[18:40:31] <jelly> a gtk purist!
• 2322[18:40:40] <Peyam> jelly, let me see
• 2323[18:40:42] <tmroland> i just really like gnome 3.30
• 2324[18:40:59] <jelly> nevertheless Qt based apps can work even in Gnome
• 2325[18:41:00] <tmroland> it brings linux more close to a usable modern desktop
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• 2330[18:41:22] <maferv> Hi, I need to change the fonts DPI from cli, I do: kwriteconfig --file ~/.config/kcmfonts --group "General" --key "forceFontDPI" "96" but then I need to open the Fonts configuration program for it to take effect. Is there a way to automatize this with qdbus ... reconfigure or something like that? I'm a bit of a noob to KDE. I'm using Debian Testing, KDE Plasma 5.13.5, KDE Frameworks Version 5.49.0
• 2331[18:41:33] <jelly> you are allowed to mix and match, at the expense of unsightly inconsistent UIs
• 2332[18:41:46] *** Quits: OS-40893 (~OS-40893@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2333[18:42:03] <jelly> dpkg, tell maferv about debian-next
• 2334[18:42:24] <Peyam> tmroland, XFCE is the king
• 2335[18:42:33] <jhutchins_wk> Peyam: The correct format for that command is "su -"
• 2336[18:42:48] *** Joins: P1ersson (~P1ersson@replaced-ip)
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• 2338[18:42:50] <tmroland> i tried it, its neat and practical, simple and def fast, but lacking in both completeness and gui design/ app features by a TON
• 2339[18:43:01] <tmroland> enough to make it suitable only for geeky unpretentious people
• 2340[18:43:02] <jhutchins_wk> Peyam: Root is implied, and the dash gives you root's path and environment.
• 2341[18:43:23] <Peyam> jhutchins_wk, I use su -s normally
• 2342[18:43:31] <joepublic> "sudo bash" if you want to use sudo and your password instead of su and root's password.
• 2343[18:43:36] *** Joins: danielboston26 (~igloo@replaced-ip)
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• 2346[18:43:42] <jelly> joepublic: you meant "sudo -i"
• 2347[18:43:45] <greycat> or "sudo -i"
• 2348[18:43:45] <jhutchins_wk> joepublic: sudo -i
• 2349[18:43:52] <jelly> heheh
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• 2351[18:44:00] *** Joins: eddof13 (~eddof13@replaced-ip)
• 2352[18:44:00] <jhutchins_wk> He's trained me well.
• 2353[18:44:05] <jelly> someone is WRONG on the internet!
• 2354[18:44:06] *** Joins: colinjmatt (~colinjmat@replaced-ip)
• 2355[18:44:24] <danielboston26> So is btrfs useable in Debian yet? Or should I stick with ext4?
• 2356[18:44:27] *** Quits: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2357[18:44:33] <greycat> Well, not really wrong. "sudo bash" is at least tremendously better than "sudo su" or whatever other silly rubbish people come up with.
• 2358[18:44:36] <jelly> danielboston26: isit usable anywhere?
• 2359[18:44:36] <joepublic> jelly: quite right again, but some people reject it all until it's in the form of "sudo <command>"
• 2360[18:44:38] <jhutchins_wk> It's linux, there are at least six ways to do it, some of which are correct.
• 2361[18:44:53] <joepublic> danielboston26, I use btrfs on my main workstation without problems.
• 2362[18:44:53] <tmroland> what gnome really does shit is the animations which have horrid performance on gtx 1080 with nvidia driver
• 2363[18:45:13] <jelly> greycat: however, it is to be noted sudo bash provides the user with an inferior shell
• 2364[18:45:17] <joepublic> heh try with nouveau, then come back and see nvidia's performance in a whole new light
• 2365[18:45:20] <tmroland> so im forced to run gnome 3.30 without animations cause they lag.. on a gtx 1080 and r5 2600x
• 2366[18:45:23] *** Joins: andril (~andril@replaced-ip)
• 2367[18:45:32] <tmroland> tnx for the irony hehe
• 2368[18:45:44] *** Joins: mrig (~mrig@replaced-ip)
• 2369[18:45:46] *** Joins: GoEasy (~root@replaced-ip)
• 2370[18:45:56] <danielboston26> Jelly it comes preinstalled with Synology diskstation
• 2371[18:46:27] <tmroland> i got a idea: since sid is potentially unstable and prone to breakign when doing updates, is it possible to use btrfs on / and leverage btrfs snapshotin'g to recover the system in case of total breakdown to a fully working state ?
• 2372[18:46:30] <joepublic> jelly: bash can start the useful shell that you prefer, of course.
• 2373[18:46:49] <joepublic> sid isn't potentially unstable. It is, literally, "unstable".
• 2374[18:46:50] <Peyam> I installed Snap and the redis desktop manager
• 2375[18:46:50] <greycat> tmroland: you could do the same with LVM snapshots underneath *any* file system
• 2376[18:47:01] <jelly> tmroland: someone's probably done it, ask in...
• 2377[18:47:01] *** Joins: pax (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 2378[18:47:04] <Peyam> but how do I run redis desktop
• 2379[18:47:04] *** Quits: GoEasy (~root@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 2380[18:47:05] <jelly> !debian-next
• 2381[18:47:05] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
• 2382[18:47:07] *** Quits: llucenic (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2383[18:47:10] <danielboston26> Joepublic im just using a regular old laptop is btrfs overkill? I want to move into the 21st century with my filesystem
• 2384[18:47:18] *** Joins: jasperarcola (~JasperArc@replaced-ip)
• 2385[18:47:20] <greycat> SNS again
• 2386[18:47:25] <tmroland> i see
• 2387[18:47:27] <tmroland> lvm
• 2388[18:47:29] <tmroland> ok
• 2389[18:47:32] <joepublic> ext4 is pretty 21st century unless you need a specific feature of btrfs
• 2390[18:47:32] <tmroland> lvm or btrfs
• 2391[18:47:48] <tmroland> i need to be able to use snapshots to reset my system fully working in one sec
• 2392[18:47:50] <tmroland> if it breaks
• 2393[18:47:51] <danielboston26> Joepublic it’s cow?
• 2394[18:47:59] <jelly> Peyam: you may have to learn how to use the out-of-distro tool on your own, perhaps there's a redis related channel? /msg alis list redis
• 2395[18:48:04] *** Quits: GJdan (~dan@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2396[18:48:04] <joepublic> ext4 is journaling, not cow. btrfs is cow.
• 2397[18:48:22] <danielboston26> Right that’s what I meant by 21st century
• 2398[18:48:37] <Peyam> jelly, yeah true . just asking maybe someone knows. but that is not debian related . I get it :)
• 2399[18:48:39] <joepublic> your calendar leaves something to be desired.
• 2400[18:48:57] <danielboston26> Although seeing as I’ve already installed an ext4 system this topic might be moot
• 2401[18:49:17] <joepublic> you can convert ext4 to btrfs, I'm told.
• 2402[18:49:38] <danielboston26> Eh its not recommended at least that’s what the wiki said
• 2403[18:50:02] <joepublic> btrfs is frankly a minefield of "i wonder if this feature is recommended." It's the 21st century way.
• 2404[18:50:05] <jelly> Peyam: it's true that it's not debian related, but also: it's a bit specific and we don't get too many questions about it here, so there are probably places where you'd get more useful clues faster
• 2405[18:50:11] <tmroland> is there a fs that has noticeable better desktop performance than ext4?
• 2406[18:50:20] *** Parts: SimonNL (~SimonNL@replaced-ip) ("Leaving (Channel)___If I have said something clever. my apologies \o")
• 2407[18:50:26] <jelly> tmroland: ext4 on ssd.
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• 2409[18:50:33] <danielboston26> Joepublic lol it’s still being actively developed
• 2410[18:50:33] <tmroland> i have ext4 on ssd already
• 2411[18:50:39] <tmroland> and yea i dont wait for any app starting
• 2412[18:50:46] <LambdaComplex> i'm in the debian installer's busybox shell and trying to mount some filesystems that are on the internal drive, but mount keeps saying the mountpoint doesn't exist
• 2413[18:50:48] <jelly> tmroland: what kind of performance are you missing?
• 2414[18:50:51] <LambdaComplex> even though the mountpoint definitely exists
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• 2416[18:50:55] <relaxed> too bad we don't have native zfs like freebsd
• 2417[18:50:56] <tmroland> nothing, asking out of pure curiosity
• 2418[18:50:57] <LambdaComplex> (and i have tried with multiple mountpoints)
• 2419[18:51:02] <LambdaComplex> any suggestions?
• 2420[18:51:19] <danielboston26> Tmroland try out btrfs?
• 2421[18:51:21] <joepublic> All healthy projects are still being actively developed. That's not a synonym for "unreliable."
• 2422[18:51:21] <jelly> tmroland: if you find out something specific that's slow maybe someone can try to address it.
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• 2424[18:51:43] <danielboston26> In terms of performance better any modern filesystem is fine
• 2425[18:51:44] <tmroland> can convert ext4 to btrfs SAFELY?
• 2426[18:51:49] <jelly> otherwise "I want things to be faster but don't know which things" isn't really an actionable item
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• 2428[18:52:09] <danielboston26> tmroland lol that’s what I was just discussing with joepublic
• 2429[18:52:11] <jelly> bcachefs? nilfs2? who knows?!
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• 2432[18:52:26] <tmroland> yea i noticed
• 2433[18:52:29] <tmroland> so its not recommended
• 2434[18:52:31] <tmroland> which means its unsafe
• 2435[18:52:47] <joepublic> I would suspect as safely as any other thing involving btrfs, which is more likely to be safe than not, but hedge your bets with a good backup system.
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• 2437[18:53:01] <danielboston26> It’s being actively developed so things are in constant flux
• 2438[18:53:04] <jelly> tmroland: keep regular backups and use any fs you want
• 2439[18:53:12] <tmroland> well playonlinux is COMPLETEY useless and clueless, installed, ran wow setup , and it cant even display fonts properly, let alone install it, completely stuck
• 2440[18:53:18] <joepublic> "actively developed" doesn't mean "constant flux" either.
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• 2443[18:53:38] <jelly> tmroland: but then, also have two computers for work so you can continue working if one breaks
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• 2445[18:53:58] <tmroland> well i dont, thats why i was asking about snapshots
• 2446[18:54:03] <tmroland> to just recover easily
• 2447[18:54:04] <danielboston26> Joepublic things are changing is what I mean
• 2448[18:54:10] <tmroland> i fked my debian countless times
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• 2453[18:54:40] <LambdaComplex> actually maybe it's saying the device file doesn't exists?
• 2454[18:54:43] <LambdaComplex> not sure
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• 2456[18:54:55] <LambdaComplex> either way, it's a "No such file or directory" error
• 2457[18:55:19] <joepublic> the linux kernel, for example, is actively being developed and is in constant flux, but no one says "so we better not use it until it settles down." Those words do not mean that. btrfs is unique here in that it is almost but not quite ready.
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• 2462[18:56:39] <greycat> Linux is an atypical example, though. It has not just a stable and a devel branch, but *lots* of simultaneous devel branches. And the kernels as released by kernel.org are not really stable, even if they say "stable" on them. The distributions do the actual stabilizing.
• 2463[18:56:59] <joepublic> Linux is a superset of btrfs, hence the relation.
• 2464[18:57:00] <greycat> Thus, a Red Hat kernel and a Debian kernel have very different patches.
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• 2478[19:01:29] <danielboston26> Does Debian still require legacy boot or does it work with uefi?
• 2479[19:01:42] <jelly> LambdaComplex: you will get a file not found error when the kernel does not know about the filesystem type. Look at lsmod, see if relevant fs driver module is loaded
• 2480[19:02:24] <jelly> danielboston26: it works with both, but some UEFI options are not well supported; at least in Debian 9, SecureBoot is problematic
• 2481[19:02:25] <greycat> danielboston26: it supporst both
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• 2483[19:03:06] <danielboston26> So I can turn off legacy boot
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• 2485[19:03:59] <jelly> yes
• 2486[19:04:04] <LambdaComplex> jelly: i just went through a little bit of the installer (got past the interface config part) and went back to the shell. it works now
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• 2489[19:04:28] <danielboston26> Why is the windows boot manager still on the drive?
• 2490[19:05:05] <jelly> danielboston26: debian does not wipe existing contents of EFI Boot partition
• 2491[19:05:40] <danielboston26> Ah will that break anything? Or can I leave it?
• 2492[19:05:48] <jelly> did you tell the installer to use the whole disk and wipe everything?
• 2493[19:06:00] <greycat> The whole point of the EFI partition is that everyone can put their OS loader code there at the same time, yeah?
• 2494[19:06:06] <jelly> yes
• 2495[19:06:07] <danielboston26> Guided use whole drive
• 2496[19:06:32] <danielboston26> So I need to remove the windows boot manager?
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• 2498[19:07:02] <jelly> danielboston26: I suspect that may leave the existing efi boot partition in place. You do not have to remove anything on it at installer time,
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• 2500[19:07:27] <danielboston26> Will it interfere with Debian?
• 2501[19:07:28] <jelly> debian will just put its own grub executable there and add an uefi boot entry for itself
• 2502[19:07:37] <jelly> in general, no
• 2503[19:07:48] <danielboston26> So I can ignore it?
• 2504[19:07:58] *** Quits: encod3 (~encod3@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 2505[19:08:02] <jelly> your firmware might default to booting that first, but that can be fixed later
• 2506[19:08:31] <danielboston26> Eh I’ll just wipe the whole drive and start again since I want to try btrfs
• 2507[19:09:08] <jelly> I strongly suggest setting up backups on eg. an external disk
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• 2510[19:09:50] <danielboston26> Ok this is odd
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• 2513[19:10:37] <danielboston26> It won’t boot at all not even to my USB key
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• 2517[19:11:48] <danielboston26> Not matter what I select it pops back into the text screen
• 2518[19:12:39] <danielboston26> HELP!!
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• 2520[19:13:16] <jelly> !ask
• 2521[19:13:16] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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• 2524[19:13:58] <danielboston26> Lol the drive wasn’t pushed all the way into the port 🤭
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• 2526[19:14:32] <danielboston26> So I guess I do have to remove the windows boot manager
• 2527[19:14:45] *** Quits: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 2528[19:14:55] <joepublic> danielboston26, I hate to jump in to this, but do you have Windows and/or need to boot to it using said boot manager?
• 2529[19:15:14] <joepublic> the answer to that is the same as the answer to whether you should keep the boot manager.
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• 2531[19:16:01] <danielboston26> Joepublic I did have windows trying fo erase and just have Debian I didn’t get rid of the windows boot manager and that was messing up so I put the Debian disk back in but didn’t stick it all the way into the port
• 2532[19:16:39] <joepublic> okay. Then also you do not need uefi and can turn that off if you want.
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• 2534[19:17:49] <joepublic> I do not think I have UEFI enabled on any of these computers in my office/workbench area. I think they all go bios -> grub from MBR.
• 2535[19:18:16] <joepublic> Except the olinuxinos, which I am pretty sure are using something like uboot
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• 2540[19:20:31] <petn-randall> joepublic: Well, it's still either using legacy bios or UEFI to boot that. Whatever you chose to install Debian, you have to keep to cary on booting it.
• 2541[19:20:38] <Peyam> it is crazy
• 2542[19:20:48] <Peyam> can not run the application I installed using snap
• 2543[19:21:08] <petn-randall> joepublic: If you dualboot, you have to make sure that both OS are installed with the same boot method, otherwise you'll have to switch back and forth in the UEFI settings.
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• 2545[19:21:24] <petn-randall> Peyam: You need to be far more specific to get any useful help here.
• 2546[19:21:24] <joepublic> petn-randall,
• 2547[19:21:45] <joepublic> petn-randall, i am pretty sure these Arm A20 olinuxinos don't have UEFI nor BIOS.
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• 2553[19:22:27] *** Parts: tedarek (~tedarek@replaced-ip) ()
• 2554[19:22:42] <joepublic> they look to an SD card and/or EMMC for boot code.
• 2555[19:22:43] <petn-randall> joepublic: Well, they need to be compatible to on or the other, or you have set up your Debian with something custom. Because Debian installers only support those two boot "methods".
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• 2558[19:23:00] <jelly> petn-randall: they said "Arm"
• 2559[19:23:07] <Peyam> petn-randall, I installed snap using " sudo apt install snapd" and installed redis-desktop-manager by "sudo snap install redis-desktop-manager" and then I try to run it by"sudo snap run redis-desktop-manager" and nothing happens
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• 2562[19:24:23] <joepublic> They are running Debian/armhf.
• 2563[19:24:23] <Peyam> maroufi@debian:~$ snap run redis-desktop-manager
• 2564[19:24:23] <Peyam> error: cannot find app "redis-desktop-manager" in "redis-desktop-manager"
• 2565[19:24:29] <Peyam> this is the output
• 2566[19:24:35] <jelly> joepublic: and you know darn well those u-boot and FEL tiny things are kind of out of "x86 workstation" context
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• 2569[19:25:18] <jelly> joepublic: we sometimes simplify explanations when trying to do tech support
• 2570[19:25:37] <BCMM> Peyam: is that literally all debian installers do?
• 2571[19:25:45] <joepublic> I see why.
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• 2573[19:25:58] <jelly> the user does not need to know Sun systems can boot linux from tapes.
• 2574[19:26:09] <BCMM> sorry wrong highlight
• 2575[19:26:38] <jelly> Peyam: perhaps there's a way to see the snap's contents?
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• 2579[19:27:14] <joepublic> I would submit that the user is more and more over time going to need to know about ARM. Hopefully that platform will become more stabilized and usable over time.
• 2580[19:27:47] <BCMM> petn-randall: debian installers literally just do efi and bios booting? there are netinst for architectures that don't support either; do they just not install a bootloader or what?
• 2581[19:27:52] <abrotman> Can someone help install OracleDB on stretch?!
• 2582[19:27:53] <jelly> joepublic: I would submit to try be constructive and help with the issues at hand; there's #debian-offtopic for non-support.
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• 2585[19:29:00] <joepublic> ok. here's your OracleDB client we hypothetically discussed earlier.
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• 2588[19:30:25] <Peyam> jelly, what do you mean_\
• 2589[19:30:57] <jelly> Peyam: I mean see if the "snap" command has ways to show you what execuable is in the snap.
• 2590[19:31:21] <Peyam> jelly, I dont know
• 2591[19:31:28] <jelly> "man snap"? "snap --help"? "snap help"? google "using snap linux"?
• 2592[19:31:46] <jelly> Peyam: I don't know either, sorry
• 2593[19:32:00] <jelly> try things, sometimes they work
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• 2596[19:32:40] <abrotman> like installing OracleDB!
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• 2601[19:33:18] <jelly> abrotman: not not XE, the real thing!
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• 2604[19:33:26] <jelly> butt* nott
• 2605[19:33:36] *** Joins: spackle259 (~spackle25@replaced-ip)
• 2606[19:33:48] <abrotman> Either I can use OracleDB or Sqlite .. They're nearly the same
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• 2608[19:34:26] <jelly> hadoop.
• 2609[19:34:32] <annadane> try installing MariaWhatsit
• 2610[19:34:42] <abrotman> MariaWhosIt ..
• 2611[19:35:08] *** Joins: devbaka (~devbaka@replaced-ip)
• 2612[19:35:28] <DiRaOL> Hi all! Is there anyone facing problems with Libreoffice and Debian (>= buster)? After updating my system I'm facing this error: version `LIBO_UDK_6.1' not found
• 2613[19:35:41] <annadane> !debian-next
• 2614[19:35:42] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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• 2619[19:38:40] <jelly> how do you solve a problem like MariaDB?
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• 2625[19:41:09] <shynoob> MariaDB is a problem?
• 2626[19:41:30] <joepublic> It's a musical nun reference.
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• 2629[19:43:09] <shynoob> oh
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• 2746[20:53:49] <jhutchins> The Sound of Music
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• 2748[20:55:55] <joepublic> The Hills Are Alive with it
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• 2824[21:45:55] <amcorreia> Anyone recommend a software similar to Acunetix, but less expensive
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• 2826[21:47:32] <joepublic> I have no recommendation, but I bet the kali linux folks do.
• 2827[21:48:18] <amcorreia> I'll try there too
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• 2938[22:46:59] <tmroland> any idea on when gnome 3.30.2 should hit sid considering its been released 2 days ago?
• 2939[22:47:01] <tmroland> or 3
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• 2942[22:48:22] <joepublic> !debian-next
• 2943[22:48:22] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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• 3004[23:20:27] <fred``> whats the 'trick' to compile 4.18.16 from kernel.org on latest debian. i get plenty of 'crypto-modules'-errors during 'make deb-pkg xx xx'
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• 3010[23:22:52] <joepublic> I usually make -j `getconf _NPROCESSORS_ONLN` deb-pkg LOCALVERSION=-mykernel
• 3011[23:22:55] <rant> fred``: do you actually want to compile it or do you just want the newer kernel?
• 3012[23:23:13] <fred``> isnt that the same ?
• 3013[23:23:14] <rant> because thre is a backport of 4.18 available you know
• 3014[23:23:25] <fred``> well - i want the new kernel - but with 'adjustments'
• 3015[23:23:34] <joepublic> the distribution kernel will have its .config and your kernel will have yours.
• 3016[23:23:36] <rant> yes, well then you want to compile it :P
• 3017[23:23:40] <fred``> want to tweak tickrate
• 3018[23:23:44] <fred``> yep
• 3019[23:23:59] <fred``> the default -rt kernel has only 250hz
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• 3021[23:24:42] <rant> <exclaim type='sarcastic'>that's CRAZY!</exclaim>
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• 3025[23:24:59] <joepublic> I do other hideous things like insert -O 3 recursively into all the makefiles under the kernel source root, etc.
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• 3029[23:28:55] <fred``> rant - it isnt, but i need it
• 3030[23:30:26] <rant> yeah, I know.. I too require food, water, and really high cycle kernels to survive</dry sarcasm> :P
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• 3032[23:31:18] <joepublic> Contrary to popular opinion, it works out that low frequency of interrupts roughly equals high frequency of doing useful work.
• 3033[23:31:45] <fred``> why do you hate your life rant ?
• 3034[23:32:17] <rant> yes its mostly useful for things like real-time audio processing, its bad for pretty much everything else
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• 3036[23:32:28] <fred``> exactly
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• 3038[23:33:21] <joepublic> last kernel I compiled was 4.19.0 but admittedly it was under testing, not stable.
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• 3041[23:34:14] <fred``> i 'learned' not to install kernels before x.x.10
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• 3043[23:34:40] <fred``> so i wanted to try the latest 4.18
• 3044[23:35:14] <joepublic> At any given time I am running whatever the current .0 or -rc is, unless I found a problem with it on my hardware. Why do I try to break things? I keep asking myself this, but never am able to answer the enquery.
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• 3062[23:48:51] <awal1> all was fine and simple with alsa; just headache with pulseaudio
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• 3065[23:53:20] <joepublic> out of curiosity, what is "all" ?
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• 3068[23:53:54] * rant shoves joepublic into the total perspective vortex
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• 3071[23:55:10] <joepublic> I record, mix, and edit audio, but that's not that demanding and seems to survive pulseaudio fine. Just curious what things don't. Honest question.
• 3072[23:55:37] <rant> recording, mixing, and editing is all sampling audio
• 3073[23:55:51] <rant> REAL-TIME audio processing is different
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• 3075[23:56:12] <joepublic> Thank you. Very good explanation.
• 3076[23:56:15] <rant> like actually processing midi with effects and such
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• 3083[23:57:47] <rant> consider the entire sound system a band would use.. midi sequencer, amps, filters, effect pedals for guitars, etc.. and imagine doing that whole system on a computer
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• 3088[23:59:13] <joepublic> what, then, is the solution? low frequency tick + fastest supercomputer in existence?
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