• 0[00:00:07] <scwizard> so when I send emails to debian-cloud@lists.debian.org
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• 2[00:00:13] <scwizard> does anyone actually get them?
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• 5[00:01:19] <rant> scwizard: presumably anyone subscribed to that list would get them
• 6[00:01:38] <scwizard> then why no reply :(
• 7[00:02:12] <rant> "Either they don't know, they don't show, or they just don't care (about being a menace to south central while they drink their juice in the hood)"
• 8[00:02:36] <scwizard> this page lists us-east-2 twice and us-east-1 0 times :( replaced-url
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• 17[00:06:41] <crimson_king> I can print, but scanner doesn't show up here on GNOME's default scanning app, what could it be?
• 18[00:07:11] <crimson_king> "No scanner available" it says
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• 20[00:07:44] <rant> crimson_king: is it an all-in-one? hp?
• 21[00:07:47] <crimson_king> yes
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• 23[00:08:02] <rant> crimson_king: have you installed the hpijs software?
• 24[00:08:08] <crimson_king> no, nothing
• 25[00:08:14] <crimson_king> wait a sec
• 26[00:08:37] <rant> I've not had any issues with an HP device using their packages provided by debian
• 27[00:08:51] <crimson_king> what is the name of the package?
• 28[00:08:58] <crimson_king> of what I must install
• 29[00:09:04] <rant> ,i hpijs
• 30[00:09:05] <judd> No package named 'hpijs' was found in stretch/amd64.
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• 32[00:09:14] <crimson_king> I found printer-driver-hpijs
• 33[00:09:20] <crimson_king> is this it?
• 34[00:09:33] <rant> ,i hplip
• 35[00:09:34] <judd> Package hplip (utils, optional) in stretch/amd64: HP Linux Printing and Imaging System (HPLIP). Version: 3.16.11+repack0-3; Size: 141.3k; Installed: 316k; Homepage: replaced-url
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• 39[00:10:12] <rant> it'll give you a blue HP icon in your notification area, and a HP settings tool for configuring HP print/scan/fax stuff
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• 41[00:10:35] <crimson_king> will gnome's simple scan work afterwards?
• 42[00:10:54] <crimson_king> I prefer the cleanest approach there is, using whatever is default instead of adding more
• 43[00:11:16] <rant> it should.. the driver you mentioned is probably all you NEED but then you gotta do all the config yourself.. hplip handles all that, you never have to touch any cups/sane stuff
• 44[00:11:29] <crimson_king> all right, i'll try
• 45[00:11:42] <rant> it also allows you to monitor ink levels and all that kinda crap
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• 51[00:19:13] <crimson_king> hplip was already installed. The only 'hpijs' I see here is hpijs-ppds
• 52[00:20:12] <crimson_king> that printer-driver-hpijs was already installed as well
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• 61[00:25:55] <rant> run the hplip tool then hp-toolbox
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• 65[00:27:13] <rant> the only thing I had issues with was getting send to pc to work on those wireless setups.. the acquiring from the linux side always worked fine
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• 68[00:29:53] <rant> I wonder what genius named that "HP Linux Printing and Imaging" instead of "HP Linux Imaging and Printing" considering its HPLIP not HPLPI
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• 71[00:33:00] <crimson_king> do I need Xsane for simple scan to work?
• 72[00:33:35] <crimson_king> I found some tools that start with hp, such as hp-check. It shows a lot of errors, mostly missing packages
• 73[00:34:02] <crimson_king> xsane is one of them. "xsane needs to be installed" it says
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• 76[00:37:58] <hypn0> simple-scan works here
• 77[00:38:53] <hypn0> or did in 8, haven't tried in 9 yet :-)
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• 80[00:40:14] <crimson_king> I'll reboot and try some packages on my own. If I get it working, I'll make sure to let you know how
• 81[00:40:21] <hypn0> I think you only need the sane library
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• 94[00:50:17] <Azrael_-> would you suggest to go for bacula 9 instead of 7.4 for a new productive installation?
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• 109[00:59:53] <michael2> hi all. I have urxvt set to use URxvt.font: xft:Monospace:pixelsize=15
• 110[01:00:05] <michael2> but when I run `fc-list' I dont see "Monospace" or "xft" in the output, why is that?
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• 112[01:00:46] <michael2> how do I identify/list out the font that rxvt uses out of the list of installed fonts
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• 118[01:04:31] *** nik_ is now known as frazr
• 119[01:05:49] <frazr> Anyone had problems with settings http/https proxy settings via terminal?
• 120[01:05:58] <frazr> /etc/environment doesn't seem to work
• 121[01:06:16] <frazr> fucking chrome, refuses to apply the proxy
• 122[01:06:23] <SlidingHorn> !language | frazr
• 123[01:06:43] <frazr> heckin poo chrome refuses to apply the proxy
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• 129[01:11:44] <frazr> tried all possible solutions now, nothing seems to work
• 130[01:11:46] <frazr> bu-hu
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• 139[01:19:47] <michael2> proxy settings are hard - and non obvious
• 140[01:20:30] <michael2> are you disabling proxing for any hosts?
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• 142[01:20:47] <michael2> e.g. localhost, 127.0.0.1?
• 143[01:21:56] <michael2> are you using the correct protocol ? i.e. is SOCKS being applied to your connections?
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• 146[01:23:52] <frazr> michael2: yeah its http&https proxy, running privoxy
• 147[01:24:08] <frazr> works fine testing in firefox
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• 150[01:24:32] <michael2> but you dont want to use firefox?
• 151[01:24:36] <frazr> no :)
• 152[01:25:05] <frazr> ideally i'd simply run https_proxy=blabla chrome or chrome --proxy-server=blabla
• 153[01:25:13] <frazr> should work, but doesnt
• 154[01:25:24] <michael2> can you netstat active connections? is chrome connecting to your local SOCKS entry point?
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• 156[01:26:19] <michael2> what if you configure through the GUI? what about if you run in incognito mode or in a different chrome user account?
• 157[01:26:46] <frazr> dont have any gui for that
• 158[01:27:00] <frazr> unless theres some simple gtk app that does that
• 159[01:27:10] <frazr> probably is.. :)
• 160[01:27:33] <michael2> are you running headless chrome?
• 161[01:27:52] <frazr> like starting with --incognito ?
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• 163[01:28:19] <frazr> unless its a default arg no
• 164[01:28:36] <michael2> I dont know how to start incognito from command line
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• 167[01:28:57] <frazr> thats how u do it
• 168[01:29:05] <frazr> didnt work , can try with the env vars too
• 169[01:29:50] <frazr> nopes :
• 170[01:29:51] <frazr> :/
• 171[01:30:12] <michael2> yeah, it seems thats how you do it - not surprising it didn't work though...
• 172[01:30:35] <michael2> are you running headless chrome? why don't you have GUI menu?
• 173[01:31:43] <frazr> hmm
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• 176[01:31:50] <frazr> i guess its chrome thats shit
• 177[01:31:55] <frazr> tried curl ifconfig.co
• 178[01:32:00] <frazr> and thats proxied
• 179[01:32:35] <frazr> sigh..
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• 186[01:36:16] <cef> frazr: tried running chrome directly with `--proxy-server=host:port` on the command line to ensure chromes proxy support isn't just totally broken?
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• 188[01:37:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1530
• 189[01:37:11] <frazr> cef: yup
• 190[01:38:09] <cef> frazr: only thing I could suggest in the meantime then is using that, maybe pass $http_proxy on the command line so it's the same system wide var.
• 191[01:38:11] <frazr> seems like it takes proxy settings from the DE
• 192[01:38:26] <frazr> since im running a faily uncommon one i guess it doesnt know where to look
• 193[01:38:59] <frazr> tried both setting in environment and passing when executing chrome and exporting in session
• 194[01:39:05] <frazr> dont know if theres any other way :)
• 195[01:39:39] <cef> if it's just one user, chrome has settings in it somewhere for proxies
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• 197[01:39:55] <cef> better if it just worked the other way tho.
• 198[01:39:57] <frazr> i dont think it has ?
• 199[01:40:04] <frazr> it just opens up gsettings when in gnome for example
• 200[01:40:42] <crimson_king> After installing everything related to HPLIP and trying the GUI, I still can't scan. Here's the result of hp-check: replaced-url
• 201[01:41:00] <crimson_king> PS: I don't have non-free enabled
• 202[01:41:18] <cef> frazr: Ahh yeah, you're right.. here it opens NetworkManager. hrm
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• 204[01:41:41] <frazr> replaced-url
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• 206[01:42:03] <frazr> Should work to set via --proxy-server, since it clearly says that
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• 210[01:43:34] <KindaNoob> How make script run at log on?
• 211[01:45:40] <frazr> Use google
• 212[01:46:40] <annadane> i don't think telling people to use google is especially helpful
• 213[01:47:06] *** Quits: eshlox (uid44222@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
• 214[01:47:25] <SlidingHorn> KindaNoob: what desktop environment/window manager are you using?
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• 216[01:49:19] *** Quits: crimson_king (~crimson_k@replaced-ip) (Quit: crimson_king)
• 217[01:49:20] <frazr> No its not, and for basic questions that you could find the answer in 10 seconds you shouldnt be helpful either, had this discussion before
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• 220[01:50:06] * kot rolls eyes
• 221[01:51:10] <frazr> Last time i was complaining about that myself in this same channel i believe, but got convinved that it does no good answering those types of questions
• 222[01:51:13] <frazr> roll away
• 223[01:51:20] <KindaNoob> SlidingHorn xfce
• 224[01:52:14] <kot> fine, then don't. just don't tell others what not to do.
• 225[01:52:54] <KindaNoob> I tried rc.local, but it doesn't work
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• 232[01:54:43] <annadane> devils advocate position is 1) this is a _help channel_ and 2) using google is often wrong
• 233[01:54:54] <annadane> search result: ubuntu forums from 7 years ago, no longer relevant
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• 236[01:56:17] <annadane> 3) now is a noob (self professed in their name) supposed to know which of the search results is correct?
• 237[01:56:18] <SlidingHorn> KindaNoob: easy method - Menu > Settings Manager > Session and Startup > Application Autostart tab
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• 239[01:56:33] <annadane> there you go: someone gave a concrete answer
• 240[01:56:45] <annadane> don't punish the newbies; punish the people who should know better
• 241[01:57:03] <annadane> s/now/how
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• 243[01:57:24] <frazr> Learning by trial and error and reading like we all did, but whatever you keep on filling up the channel with discussions of that nature
• 244[01:57:56] <KindaNoob> So there is no common solution?
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• 247[01:58:21] <annadane> i think the CLI approach is to run it as a cron job
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• 250[01:58:48] <annadane> there's possibly a GUI frontend for it
• 251[01:59:26] <rjsalts> I don't think there is an event for login with cron, just @reboot
• 252[01:59:28] <KindaNoob> does cron have event-based launch?
• 253[02:00:06] <SlidingHorn> KindaNoob: There are other ways, but I figured that the option I provided would be the easiest
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• 255[02:00:22] <rjsalts> man 5 crontab suggests no
• 256[02:00:36] <annadane> i thought it did, maybe not
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• 258[02:01:16] <rjsalts> you can do private systemd units iirc
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• 261[02:01:48] <rjsalts> replaced-url
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• 288[02:16:40] <impy> hi does anyone know how I can get Debian to dump core on seg faults for applications? I've tried ulimit -c unlimited and changed limits.conf also but to no avail
• 289[02:17:22] <impy> actually; ignore me, it seems to have now worked
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• 300[02:25:35] <iLogic> hey guys i was trying to setup a wlan connection on debian jessie and couldnt figure why until i saw on the ping output the static ip i had setup for eth0, lo and behold after i ifdown eth the wlan started working.. any clues why?
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• 329[02:57:43] <rant> iLogic: probably due to the routing table
• 330[02:58:39] <rant> if it were setup properly it'd work with both interfaces configured
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• 332[02:58:51] <Moobius> hello
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• 335[02:59:26] <Moobius> why is there eye strain under any linux distribution?
• 336[03:00:21] <Moobius> this is unrelated to video drivers, particular graphics mode, monitor or fonts.
• 337[03:00:36] *** Quits: c0dex1 (~c0dex1@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 338[03:01:06] <rant> its said that one cannot look upon the face of God and live.. maybe you're just not able to withstand the awesomeness of linux
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• 340[03:01:47] <Moobius> that's not an answer of course
• 341[03:02:25] <Moobius> i have a better theory: perhaps your eyes are already so much destroyed you can't tell the difference anymore
• 342[03:02:43] <rant> to paraphrase deep thought, I'm pretty sure thats the answer, you just need to figure out what the question is
• 343[03:02:59] <Moobius> it's pretty much out there.
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• 345[03:03:26] <Moobius> unless you just want to play some typical mind games like pro vs amateur
• 346[03:03:27] <rant> yeah a really vague question followed by all the primary answers ruled out
• 347[03:03:29] <Moobius> not gonna work this time
• 348[03:03:55] <Moobius> it's not vague, it's just what there is. I can't give you more, because linux won't let me to
• 349[03:04:10] <rant> if you've ruled out all the typical causes of eye strain, then you're just kinda linux bashing
• 350[03:05:11] <rant> its not merely that I am not interested in taking this seriously, I just dont see how to approach it as such within the perameters
• 351[03:05:45] <Moobius> neither do i, otherwise i would have probably found the answer myself a long time ago
• 352[03:05:54] <rant> my thoughts would be things like luminence both from the screen and surroundings, font sizes, antialiasing, refresh rate..etc
• 353[03:06:15] <Moobius> my question is addressed to those who may have been puzzled like me some time back but then found a solution. In other words who are actually familiar with the issue
• 354[03:06:20] <rant> distance from the screen and so on
• 355[03:06:45] <Moobius> fonts got nothing to do with it, like i said. Neither refresh rate, it's all good, 60hz, etc.
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• 357[03:06:59] <rant> oh I'm plenty familiar with such issues but in one case it was due to a faulty CRT monitor, another was due to crappy fonts..etc
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• 359[03:07:01] <Moobius> i mean, if it was THAT simple i would never come in here and ask for help
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• 361[03:07:13] <Moobius> actually, there is no such issue on CRT monitor
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• 363[03:07:22] <Moobius> it only shows itself on LCD
• 364[03:07:38] <rant> well in that case dot pitch and such also come to mind
• 365[03:07:52] <rant> for me I was using a really large old montitor that just got the shakes sometimes
• 366[03:08:00] <Moobius> and whenever people speak of fonts, it's just confusion. They get affected by one thing but failed to pinpoint it they readily accuse fonts. That's just not it
• 367[03:08:15] <Moobius> one thing i can tell you, though i'm not sure it's any good
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• 369[03:09:23] <Moobius> I have no such issues on Windows of course, but whenever i'm on linux under X i notice that the colors don't exactly look the same as on Windows. They seem to be more saturated, which i believe could have something to do with dithering
• 370[03:09:33] <Moobius> but then how would that cause eye strain?
• 371[03:09:52] <rant> you already narrowed it down saying it happens on one kind of display and not another.. so its either that display or some configuration of it.. LCDs for one thing are far more flexible on things like dot pitch, aspect ratio, etc I can configure either of these two LCDs to 16:9, 5:4 4:3, etc when clearly they do HAVE a native res and aspect
• 372[03:09:54] <kot> sounds like a psychological thing.
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• 374[03:10:11] <Moobius> i said it got nothing to do with the monitor because i've used another one before, same thing
• 375[03:10:19] <Moobius> no, it's NOT a psychological thing
• 376[03:10:23] <Moobius> let me show you something now
• 377[03:10:41] <Moobius> replaced-url
• 378[03:10:48] <rant> if it were a psychological thing, you'd be the last to know.. and your inability to accept the possiblity only reinforces the diagnosis
• 379[03:10:51] <Moobius> this guy was having the same exacty problem
• 380[03:11:01] <Moobius> exact*
• 381[03:11:27] <Moobius> another dude with placebo syndrome
• 382[03:11:42] <Moobius> why would people even think of it in the first place?
• 383[03:11:54] <kot> sounds about right to me
• 384[03:12:10] <rant> and different monitors don't matter if you're making the monitor attempt to render things in a way it wasnt designed for.. making this 24in TV I'm on now render this in the 5:4 ratio of the 17in monitor below it, would cause eye strain because this is not a 5:4 monitor even though it can technically display in that ratio
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• 386[03:12:26] <eamanu> Hello everybody.. I have some problem with build package (wiht sbuild) Someone could help me, please?
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• 388[03:12:35] <Moobius> i'm not doing anything with the monitor
• 389[03:12:55] <Moobius> just using standard configuration by default, native resolution, native refresh rate.
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• 391[03:13:39] <rant> how is it hooked up?
• 392[03:13:39] <Moobius> and it's always the same thing - eye strain. Not immediately, no. After a little while it feels like i can't focus my sight on one point on the screen, it's like my eyes can no longer adjust properly
• 393[03:13:50] <Moobius> next tip: go check your eyes
• 394[03:14:02] <Moobius> only it doesn't happen on Windows
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• 396[03:14:24] <kot> sounds like bs
• 397[03:14:30] <Moobius> yeah yeah, ok
• 398[03:14:35] <rant> for my example this tv is hooked up via HDMI to a DisplayPort.. which messes with detection.. and the dot pitch and resolution was not what I wanted initially
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• 400[03:15:14] <Moobius> how about you psychologically adjusted your perception into thinking there are no problems which is why you're not experiencing any?
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• 402[03:15:25] <Moobius> sounds pretty legit
• 403[03:15:50] <kot> suits me ok
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• 405[03:16:18] <Moobius> well then at least don't call it bs, cause it can go both ways you know
• 406[03:16:18] <rabbitea1_sdf> how do I 'git rm --cached' starting from current HEAD and just going all the way back, one by one?
• 407[03:16:25] <rant> yeah, sounds more like philosophy to me.. and maybe you should try linux or hardware
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• 409[03:16:37] <Moobius> i will
• 410[03:16:43] <Moobius> though i doubt it will be any different of course..
• 411[03:16:54] <kot> true
• 412[03:17:00] <rant> perhaps not, but try not ruling things out off the bad and let it go back to square one
• 413[03:17:27] <rant> you're frustrated as most of us are when shit isnt workin right.. it gets in the way of people trying to figure stuff out
• 414[03:17:54] <Moobius> problem is, this thing has been keeping me from using linux for YEARS
• 415[03:18:16] <rant> I'd learn brail before I'd use windows again :P
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• 419[03:20:27] <Moobius> i've googled the issue many times, been to many different boards, all i got is suspicions with regard to PWM, dithering, fonts and backlighting
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• 421[03:21:07] <rant> Moobius: also a thought provided all you say is true.. maybe try running linux on various VM on TOP of windows or such rubish shit to rule things out
• 422[03:21:13] <Moobius> a lot of times people would recommend flu.x or redshift to others, but that hardly does anything as it's obviously a case of misapplication
• 423[03:21:29] <Moobius> oh, if run from vbox it's all perfect
• 424[03:21:52] <rant> Moobius: because you can't say I have a problem with A B and C and its not A B or C.. you gotta accept the fact the monitor is a factor since you say it doesnt happen with CRT and if you say it works from VBOX you also can't say its not related to drivers..etc
• 425[03:22:00] <Moobius> but then how does it help? i just know it uses Windows video output and therefore it's naturally eyestrain-free
• 426[03:22:02] <rant> you're ruling things out based on rather fuzzy logic
• 427[03:22:21] <Moobius> it's not the monitor but the INPUT
• 428[03:22:41] <Moobius> how is my logic fuzzy here?
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• 430[03:23:38] <Moobius> and obviously i have no idea how to adjust the input because the issue is unknown
• 431[03:24:03] <rant> well again flipping this around like you been doing, perhaps its just perception on our part.. that you ask a question, without qualification of the hw and settings used, ruled out all the possible causes, then just say windows works, linux doesnt.. thats where we lose interest..
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• 433[03:24:36] <rant> because you've derailed any attempt to figure it out having apparently done it all already
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• 435[03:25:08] <Moobius> well, i'm sorry, it's all i have at least to prove to you that i'm not making things up, and also i'm not the only one who is sensitive to it
• 436[03:25:17] <Moobius> i wouldn't go as far as to claim that i've tried everything
• 437[03:25:24] <rant> thus I say go back to square one, and try other more general channels since you can't really make this an issue scoped to this specific channel
• 438[03:25:32] <Moobius> there is a lot of options one could use in xorg.conf alone
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• 440[03:25:48] <redd> if it works fine using a virtual driver but not with actual drivers, how is it not the drivers causing the issue?
• 441[03:25:57] <rant> you might get some headway starting over from the beginning and not allowing prior data to interfere with a new attempt at troubleshooting
• 442[03:26:20] <Moobius> Ok, suppose it's the drivers. Then what?
• 443[03:26:46] <Moobius> I mean, do you suggest i should try using windows driver? :)
• 444[03:27:42] <redd> try a manufacturer provided driver vs a reverse engineered one, or change hardware manu, so you're getting an entirely different driver
• 445[03:28:12] <Moobius> which driver exactly are you talking about?
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• 448[03:28:48] <redd> the drivers for the display adapter
• 449[03:29:01] <Moobius> ok, i always use proprietary one
• 450[03:29:19] <rant> which driver are YOU talking about :P I can tell you right now schrodinger's cat is both alive and dead :P
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• 453[03:30:03] <Moobius> is there another one except video? There you go, i thought you offered something really original, but i was wrong ;)
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• 456[03:32:43] <redd> was that to me Moobius?
• 457[03:32:51] <Moobius> no
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• 460[03:32:55] <redd> oki
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• 464[03:34:06] <Kelsar> yeah, as we all now, there is only one graphics card vendor!
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• 467[03:34:34] <Moobius> :/
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• 469[03:36:31] <Moobius> thank you for the discussion, i will be back later
• 470[03:36:38] <redd> gl
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• 502[04:07:23] <superflit> any smart way to migrate/backup a server from one VM provider to another? I want to keep it as similar as possible
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• 509[04:12:28] <somiaj> superflit: both debian?
• 510[04:12:41] <superflit> somiaj: yes
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• 512[04:13:10] <somiaj> maybe something like this.
• 513[04:13:13] <somiaj> !aptitude clone
• 514[04:13:13] <dpkg> To clone a Debian machine using aptitude (or install your favourite packages) use aptitude search --disable-columns -F%p '~i!~M!~v' > package_list; on the reference machine; xargs aptitude --schedule-only install < package_list; aptitude install; on the other machine. This preserves information about "automatically installed" packages that other methods do not. See also <reinstall>, <things to backup>, <debian clone>, <apt-clone>.
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• 517[04:13:35] <somiaj> that will ensure they have the same packages, though you may want to use rsync to copy configs and data between the two.
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• 519[04:15:37] <annadane> mainly /etc, i'd think
• 520[04:15:44] <annadane> or just cherry pick what you want
• 521[04:15:59] * annadane personally never leaves over too many config files
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• 525[04:17:37] <redd> can you not get the provider to clone/export appliance and drop it somewhere for you? or is that something they don't generally do (including new provider not installing custom images/appliances)? asking more out of curiousity than as a suggestion...
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• 529[04:20:18] <redd> actually its not only probably offtopic for chan, but also detracting from helping someone so feel free to pm answer
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• 537[04:25:32] <michael2> im trying to get set a font with xfontsel - but I cant copy the name to the clipboard. any ideas how to do that?
• 538[04:26:15] <superflit> redd: can’t get a snapshot from provider
• 539[04:26:28] <superflit> somiaj: thought about it.
• 540[04:26:46] <superflit> indeed my plans was to rsync /etc, /usr /root, /home ...
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• 542[04:27:14] <somiaj> superflit: I would just clone the package list, then copy the data, which includes cherry picking what you actually copy
• 543[04:27:33] <superflit> somiaj: that seems reasonable
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• 627[05:37:40] <Frank2> hello
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• 630[05:39:21] <nekOwO> Why is apt-get still included in Debian
• 631[05:39:27] <nekOwO> I thought it was replaced by apt
• 632[05:39:57] <Frank2> apt-get is a historically command
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• 634[05:40:24] <nekOwO> Frank2: ???
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• 637[05:40:51] <Frank2> apt-get is the classic packet manager in debian
• 638[05:41:06] <nekOwO> but apt is objectively better
• 639[05:41:16] <nekOwO> it's really just a waste of space
• 640[05:41:42] <dvs> Debian is about choice.
• 641[05:42:15] <nekOwO> Heh
• 642[05:42:17] <nekOwO> hehe...
• 643[05:43:57] <nekOwO> That's pretty bad reasoning for including 2 package managers
• 644[05:44:02] <Frank2> I installed dovecot on my debian vps, but when I try to connect with netcat it answer me : ERR [AUTH] Plaintext authentication disallowed on non-secure (SSL/TLS) connections.
• 645[05:44:19] <Frank2> how may I solve this problem ?
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• 647[05:45:27] <dvs> nekOwO, there's more than two included
• 648[05:45:44] <nekOwO> Fine, 3
• 649[05:45:49] <nekOwO> dpkg is a nice thing to have
• 650[05:45:50] <dpkg> nekOwO: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox?
• 651[05:46:05] <Frank2> must I install secure connection ?
• 652[05:46:10] <nekOwO> But apt-get is just wasted space
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• 654[05:46:20] <nekOwO> Nobody who knows what they're doing uses apt-get
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• 656[05:47:15] <somiaj> apt-get is used in plenty of scripts, and needs to be installed
• 657[05:47:23] <kot> i use mate de. why would other de's or window managers still be included?
• 658[05:47:58] <SlidingHorn> kot: because you probably haven't uninstalled the ones you were previously using
• 659[05:48:00] <nekOwO> kot: because some people don't like mate. but that isn't comparable to an objectively inferior package manager
• 660[05:48:02] <somiaj> because of using apt-get in scripts, apt-get could not be changed, and had to matain a stable command line interface. apt was thus introduced for users, and isn't tied to having to have a stable interface and can also produce nice output.
• 661[05:48:35] <nekOwO> Then we must focus on changing those scripts to apt
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• 663[05:48:51] <somiaj> and there are more than two package mangers, there is apt (which is apt-get, apt, apt-cache, apt-file), aptitude, synamptic
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• 665[05:49:10] <somiaj> no, that is not going to work, apt is meant to be something that evolve, and not be used in scripts. apt and apt-get have different purposes.
• 666[05:49:12] <nekOwO> aptitude isn't included by default
• 667[05:49:51] <kot> good idea, nekOwO. you can get started right away. how long do you think it will take?
• 668[05:50:07] <dvs> ...and my favorite: dselect!
• 669[05:50:29] <somiaj> this is what happens if you try to pipe apt's output, "WARNING: apt does not have a stable CLI interface. Use with caution in scripts.", the reason apt-get couldn't be changed is because it needs a stable CLI interface. now having apt-get which has a stable CLI interface (and far more options and ability than apt) and apt which can evolve, and be simpler and more straight forward for users, and can change.
• 670[05:51:15] <somiaj> so porting all the scripts to use apt, would force apt to have a stable cli interface (And have to disable all the fancy output), and thus jus tput apt in the same state apt-get was. They have different purposes, that is why they are both there, and they are both part of apt.
• 671[05:52:22] <somiaj> also as I said, apt-get has features that apt doesn't. Features devs and scripts need, but not an end user manging software on their system.
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• 674[05:54:40] <nekOwO> that's very unfortunate
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• 679[05:55:52] <somiaj> why? I don't see why this is a problem. apt is a collection of tools, and now has one more.
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• 688[06:00:09] <SlidingHorn> I feel like this should be in the offtopic channel.
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• 693[06:00:51] <somiaj> its on topic, it is about debian.
• 694[06:01:14] <SlidingHorn> it's not support
• 695[06:01:27] <nekOwO> I asked why it included apt-get
• 696[06:01:33] <SlidingHorn> that's not a support question
• 697[06:01:33] <nekOwO> And he explained it to me
• 698[06:01:49] <dvs> ???
• 699[06:02:00] <nekOwO> ...yes it is
• 700[06:02:24] <SlidingHorn> no, it's a philosophical/subjective questioning question.
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• 703[06:02:29] <SlidingHorn> which isn't for here.
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• 706[06:03:08] <dvs> why there is more that one package program is a philosophical question?
• 707[06:03:38] <somiaj> it wasn't subjective at all, there are versy specific reasons why both are available.
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• 710[06:04:01] <somiaj> but now this isn't support, and anyways, the conversation was just fine.
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• 712[06:04:20] <SlidingHorn> I suggest taking a look at the !off topic command in here.
• 713[06:04:32] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o somiaj
• 714[06:04:38] <somiaj> SlidingHorn: things are fine, (:
• 715[06:04:41] *** somiaj sets mode: -o somiaj
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• 717[06:05:08] <SlidingHorn> I mean, if the ops don't care about the rules, then.. *shrug*
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• 719[06:06:44] <awal1> SlidingHorn, I find th topic very debian related, not off
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• 721[06:08:35] <awal1> nekOwO, a nice instructive comment for you replaced-url
• 722[06:09:12] <awal1> add the new apt to that and consider it just like another front-end for the original apt
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• 725[06:10:04] <awal1> i guess the possible "mess" is that the new 'apt' should be called 'apt-something' for avoid confusion
• 726[06:10:38] <somiaj> it was called apt, because it was meant to combine the various tools, apt-get and apt-cache.
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• 728[06:11:09] <awal1> I know, yeah. but still confusing for non advised users
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• 730[06:12:11] <krytarik> "apt-fancy" - ok, found it!
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• 733[06:13:09] <Unit193> IIRC, one of the devs had mentioned apt-get being a better one to use in scripts, while apt made for a better front end to users.
• 734[06:15:09] <nekOwO> o-okay i get it
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• 736[06:16:59] <awal1> the only advantage of apt right now is that you don't need to use apt-get and apt-cache separately
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• 738[06:17:30] <krytarik> ..And it's also fancy looking.
• 739[06:17:32] <awal1> well, it is a new project; less features, obviously vs -get/-cache
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• 742[06:18:12] <Unit193> I'm not fond of apt's output with what one would otherwise use `apt-cache` for. `apt list` is nice though.
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• 750[06:18:54] <somiaj> yea, I try to use apt more, but do like apt-cache's output for most thigns better, and the fact it doesn't yell at me when i try to pipe the output.
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• 754[06:19:30] <awal1> all is fine; one just uses what suites your needs/what you like. that is debian
• 755[06:20:02] <awal1> i personally like aptitude/apt-X
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• 784[06:36:16] <Tomatix> Is there a way to tell which ./configure options that has been on used on a package? e.g. wine
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• 792[06:40:24] <Tomatix> ah. found it by getting apt-get source and reading debian/rules.
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• 845[07:06:22] <tp43_> How to install printer?
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• 849[07:08:49] <tp43_> oh nevermind, it was easy with xfce settings->print settings
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• 852[07:09:50] <somiaj> nice, there is also a web interface to cups if needed
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• 855[07:11:16] <Rembo> hello everyone, i'm getting the following error: replaced-url
• 856[07:12:38] <tp43_> somiaj, oh yeah, what is the url?
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• 859[07:13:08] <somiaj> localhost:631 -- and if you add your user to the lpadmin group, you can login to manage things
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• 862[07:13:22] <tp43_> somiaj, thx
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• 868[07:15:01] <somiaj> Rembo: it might be that curl is trying to use a ssl protocol the sever dosen't support or like.
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• 870[07:16:10] <somiaj> Rembo: replaced-url
• 871[07:16:26] <somiaj> which is common, due to ssl issues recentally, many sites are disabling a lot of the older cyphers.
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• 873[07:17:11] <somiaj> (though unsure on the details on how to actually fix it)
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• 902[07:37:27] <Rembo> somiaj, i try to used from another part and it works, it doesn't work on localhost
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• 988[08:07:11] <Rembo> can anyone help?
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• 1114[09:27:46] <Rembo> hello, i have a wget issue: replaced-url
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• 1126[09:32:15] <Rembo> it work from outside but not from localhost
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• 1157[09:47:03] <Tywin> How can I disable the xorg modesetting driver? I want to use the intel one
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• 1167[09:54:50] <michael2> does anyone know a way to preview fonts in debian?
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• 1170[09:55:47] <SlidingHorn> michael2: depending on your DE, there's usually a Settings application in your menu...go to Appearance > Fonts
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• 1172[09:56:23] <michael2> is there a plain ol package?
• 1173[09:56:42] <Walakea> i am afraid a part of my laptop is dying, my terminal freezes from time to time, audio from headphones sounds bad, dmesg constantly prints messages about spurious responses
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• 1193[10:06:09] <michael2> nvm I found font-manager package - it seems pretty good
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• 1304[10:48:52] <dcpc007> Hi all
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• 1307[10:49:03] <dcpc007> I have a corrupted SDcard in FAT
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• 1309[10:49:24] <dcpc007> i ran a fcsk and it shows me some error, i make correct, but seems to do nothing
• 1310[10:49:57] <dcpc007> i have a gparted report
• 1311[10:50:25] <dcpc007> FAT 1 media 0 doesn&apos;t match the boot sector&apos;s media f8. You should probably run scandisk.
• 1312[10:50:34] <dcpc007> Bad FAT: unterminated chain for \. You should run dosfsck or scandisk
• 1313[10:50:49] <dcpc007> unable to mount the sdcard on Windows 7 or 10 too
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• 1315[10:51:14] <dcpc007> i made a dd backup of the sd card on another linux
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• 1317[10:51:33] <dcpc007> any idea on how to get back the foto on it ?
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• 1345[11:05:47] <rek> hi, is really necessary to remove also nvidia-toolkit to remove completely the nvidia driver in or what?
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• 1404[11:36:35] <dfcnvt> Okay, I recently installed a new Debian OS (stable).
• 1405[11:36:45] <dfcnvt> I've hit a few problems.
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• 1409[11:37:31] <xormor> dfcnvt, so, please tell us about the problems.
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• 1421[11:38:46] <dfcnvt> I've selected all packages (main), (contrib), (non-free) and Source code....
• 1422[11:38:53] <dfcnvt> But upon apt-get update && apt-get upgrade.
• 1423[11:39:17] <dfcnvt> I got a 404 Not Found during its update/upgrade
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• 1427[11:39:49] <SlidingHorn> dfcnvt: can you post your /etc/apt/sources.list file to a pastebin? cat /etc/apt/sources.list | nc termbin.com 9999
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• 1429[11:39:55] <dfcnvt> Sure
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• 1432[11:39:57] <dfcnvt> give me sec
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• 1437[11:42:53] <dfcnvt> SlidingHorn: replaced-url
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• 1439[11:43:11] <SlidingHorn> dfcnvt: there's more to that link...
• 1440[11:43:16] <dfcnvt> oh crap
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• 1442[11:43:25] <dfcnvt> replaced-url
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• 1449[11:44:47] <SlidingHorn> dfcnvt: what country are you in?
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• 1452[11:45:11] <dfcnvt> United States.
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• 1454[11:46:02] <SlidingHorn> dfcnvt: ok - in each spot where it says replaced-url
• 1455[11:46:14] <dfcnvt> Hm
• 1456[11:46:15] <dfcnvt> oka
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• 1458[11:46:21] <SlidingHorn> (sorry, ignore the first https - i meant http)
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• 1462[11:47:25] <dfcnvt> each and all line?
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• 1464[11:47:53] <SlidingHorn> dfcnvt: yes..should be 4x
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• 1467[11:49:20] <dfcnvt> Like this? replaced-url
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• 1469[11:50:25] <dfcnvt> Hm. Same result.
• 1470[11:50:57] <dfcnvt> Just a side note - it "work" per se. But only one has a 404 Not Found error.
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• 1474[11:51:08] <dfcnvt> Let me copy/paste the result.
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• 1477[11:51:31] <SlidingHorn> ok
• 1478[11:51:45] <coffforcake> hi, i have been trying to install debian 9 recently ,bit i didnt work.i wonder if its an installer problem or something else,because installing debian 8 works.
• 1479[11:52:05] <SlidingHorn> coffforcake: what does "doesn't work" mean?
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• 1482[11:53:30] <dfcnvt> SlidingHorn: replaced-url
• 1483[11:53:42] *** Quits: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 1484[11:53:44] <dfcnvt> scroll to the bottom of screen.
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• 1486[11:54:56] <coffforcake> the installer hangs when configuring the apt-manager
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• 1488[11:56:13] <dfcnvt> the apt-manager is closed, I ran again with apt-get, same result.
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• 1491[11:59:05] <dfcnvt> Alright, I take it all back guys.
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• 1498[11:59:49] <dfcnvt> I jumped back to the Packaging Manager and simply deselected the Source (don't need it) and made some change to selected server. Then I ran it again. It works fine.
• 1499[11:59:57] <dfcnvt> Problem solved. Case closed.
• 1500[12:00:03] <SlidingHorn> dfcnvt: okay
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• 1503[12:00:45] <dfcnvt> Okay, just one more thing.
• 1504[12:01:34] <dfcnvt> When I freshly install a new Debian OS -- during that time -- it showed up about non-free package needed to install, in this case - rtl_nic/rtl8168f-1.fw
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• 1507[12:01:52] <debNewBye> Hi At all
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• 1509[12:02:04] <debNewBye> hi at all! I would like to write a javascript application using node & express.js and deploy it on a Debian linux server owned by me. would there be a way to protect the server's source code in case of theft?
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• 1511[12:02:12] <dfcnvt> I was not able to do any installation during that time. But nonetheless, I made a note and hold it for later. Now that I am back and got the apt-get to work. How do I proceed to install this firmware?
• 1512[12:03:00] <Azrael_-> debNewBye: so when your server is physically stolen you want your source code protected?
• 1513[12:03:01] <SlidingHorn> dfcnvt: sudo apt install firmware-realtek
• 1514[12:03:22] <debNewBye> yes Azrael, protected from copy
• 1515[12:03:32] <debNewBye> If i crypt my hard drive
• 1516[12:03:52] <Azrael_-> debNewBye: crypt your hard drive, this should protect it from being copied
• 1517[12:03:54] <debNewBye> I think that i need to insert a password every time for boot
• 1518[12:03:54] <SlidingHorn> dfcnvt: correction: i use sudo - you can su to root and do apt install firmware-realtek if you don't
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• 1520[12:04:06] <debNewBye> is correct?
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• 1522[12:04:44] <dfcnvt> SlidingHorn: Done. Now what's the next step?
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• 1524[12:05:01] <Azrael_-> debNewBye: please state your question again completely
• 1525[12:05:14] <SlidingHorn> dfcnvt: that's it...that includes the firmware package it wanted you to install replaced-url
• 1526[12:05:34] <debNewBye> ok sorry Azrael, this is my question:
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• 1528[12:05:48] <dfcnvt> Yea, it's installed...Now I'm not sure if I need to do further action -- to install the specific firmware as stated.
• 1529[12:06:01] <dfcnvt> modprobe or something the like.
• 1530[12:06:12] <SlidingHorn> dfcnvt: does your wifi work?
• 1531[12:06:22] <dfcnvt> It pose problematics.
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• 1536[12:06:44] <dfcnvt> It's able to see the list of AP...but it's not able to connect.
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• 1538[12:07:10] <dfcnvt> So, I had to use phyical connection temporarily...Trying to get the wifi to work. And I think this firmware is the solution.
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• 1540[12:08:34] <debNewBye> I write a program with express.js so I create a web server for my purposes. I install this application in a small server in my possession at home If the server is stolen, there is a possibility that the thief will change the root password and access the entire contents of the hard disk, including the source code. Since javascript is not a fillable language, I would like to protect my source code from the eyes of an attacker.
• 1541[12:08:57] <SlidingHorn> dfcnvt: you may need to reboot so the kernel recognizes the new firmware package
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• 1543[12:09:24] <dfcnvt> SlidingHorn: Agreed, going to do that (will come back to confirm with you)
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• 1546[12:10:01] <dfcnvt> debNewBye: I think you'd want to look into chmod command -- it changes permission level to the files on which can be made to public or not.
• 1547[12:10:15] <dfcnvt> (brb)
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• 1551[12:10:50] <Azrael_-> debNewBye: if you encrypt your harddrive, or at least the part where the source-code is stored, then the thief can't access it without the password. if he has access to your server while it is still running and your disk is still mounted with the pw, then he can read everything. if he knows about the encryption before stealing he can take a lot of technical effort and try to recover the pw from
• 1552[12:10:51] <Azrael_-> the still running machine (in case of having physical access+time). although this is VERY unlikely
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• 1556[12:13:22] <debNewBye> Azrael I thought about it, but since it is a web server written in express.js I need to start it without entering a password every time ...
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• 1558[12:14:20] <debNewBye> so so my server has to start automatically when it is turned on. I can not always enter the password every time
• 1559[12:14:32] <Azrael_-> either enter your pw every time or store the pw on the webserver (making the encryption useless) or omit restarting it or forget the whole idea
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• 1561[12:14:52] <dfcnvt> SlidingHorn: Back.
• 1562[12:15:00] <dfcnvt> Okay, going to test wifi.
• 1563[12:15:00] <SlidingHorn> dfcnvt: how'd we do?
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• 1568[12:16:01] <Azrael_-> debNewBye: before using encryption against normal theft it is easier to increase the obstacles to allow the theft itself
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• 1571[12:16:26] <dfcnvt> .
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• 1573[12:16:34] <debNewBye> what if I think of memorizing the password on the same web server? is not it useless?
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• 1575[12:16:39] <dfcnvt> Not able to connect.
• 1576[12:16:47] <dfcnvt> SlidingHorn: Not able to connect.
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• 1578[12:16:58] <dfcnvt> I guess I need to look into log.
• 1579[12:17:05] <dfcnvt> But which log is the right one?
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• 1585[12:18:52] <SlidingHorn> dfcnvt: let's try this first: sudo nano /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf add this (\ = new line) [device]\wifi.scan-rand-mac-address=no then either su to root or sudo systemctl restart NetworkManager
• 1586[12:18:59] <Azrael_-> debNewBye: if you store the pw on the same server the thief could find out where it is stored and uses it. you can store the pw somewhere else and automatically retrieve the pw over the network/internet but then the attacker would still have access if you don't put it offline fast enough.
• 1587[12:19:24] <debNewBye> would there be the possibility to store the password on another server (maybe online) so that every time the home server goes back to get the key online? If I steal the server I could simply delete the record on the online server and inhibit access. what do you think about it?
• 1588[12:19:34] <dfcnvt> SlidingHorn: Okay, hold.
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• 1597[12:21:17] <debNewBye> For example, does LUKS give me the chance to go and get a key from the internet before booting?
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• 1599[12:21:34] <Azrael_-> debNewBye: afaik not automatically, you'd have to build something yourself
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• 1611[12:26:44] <debNewBye> maybe an obfuscator?
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• 1614[12:28:01] <dfcnvt> SlidingHorn: Did you get my last message?
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• 1616[12:28:48] <Azrael_-> debNewBye: an obfuscator only makes thins a little bit more difficult to read, not using it. basically an obfuscator is quite useless in most scenarios
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• 1618[12:29:46] <debNewBye> Yes, I agree with you :-(
• 1619[12:30:25] <dfcnvt> SlidingHorn: It worked. How did you came to think about adding [device] line to the NetworkManager.conf file? I mean, either you researched on google and guess its solution or you had your first-hand experience and knows some solutions to it.
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• 1623[12:30:45] <dfcnvt> Either way, it worked. I can now disconnect it physically and enjoy my wireless. :)
• 1624[12:31:38] <SlidingHorn> dfcnvt: glad it worked! My google-fu is strong :P
• 1625[12:31:55] <dfcnvt> SlidingHorn: I see, but seriously -- what query did you use via googling?
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• 1627[12:32:36] <SlidingHorn> dfcnvt: debian wifi can't connect
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• 1629[12:33:05] <dfcnvt> lol, I see it there.
• 1630[12:33:14] <dfcnvt> SlidingHorn: replaced-url
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• 1632[12:34:05] <SlidingHorn> dfcnvt: saw that first, then the next result "how to fix can't connect to wifi..." was kind of a confirmation for me
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• 1635[12:35:34] <dfcnvt> SlidingHorn: I thought you'd might be searching something like, "NetworkManager config file realtek wifi" or something like that
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• 1640[12:37:07] <dfcnvt> Maybe I need to polish my google-fu...To type the most simplistic general phrase that's likely to show up.
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• 1649[12:42:13] <rek> you like amd uhhh
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• 1663[12:55:16] <Tywin> How can I set gcc-8 as the default version when compiling?
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• 1665[12:55:52] <Tywin> update-alternatives is giving me a choice of only between clang and gcc
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• 1667[12:57:49] <nkuttler> Tywin: which command did you use?
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• 1670[12:58:40] <Tywin> nkuttler, update-alternatives --list cc/cpp/c++
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• 1672[12:59:53] <nkuttler> doesn't look like gcc itself uses alternatives for the default gcc
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• 1677[13:00:29] <nkuttler> probably because on stable gcc is supposed to be the same..
• 1678[13:00:32] <nkuttler> ,v gcc-8
• 1679[13:00:33] <judd> Package: gcc-8 on amd64 -- buster: 8.1.0-1; sid: 8.1.0-1
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• 1681[13:00:38] <Tywin> nkuttler, how can I force version 8 whenever gcc is called?
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• 1683[13:00:48] <Tywin> Do I have to do this manually? -_-
• 1684[13:00:50] <nkuttler> change the symlink yourself?
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• 1686[13:01:24] <nkuttler> although, you should probably configure the build correctly
• 1687[13:01:38] <nkuttler> e.g. use gcc-8 as compiler, not gcc or cc or whatever
• 1688[13:01:59] <nkuttler> !debian-next
• 1689[13:01:59] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
• 1690[13:02:06] <nkuttler> see also that channel for all testing support
• 1691[13:02:06] <blaztek> Tywin: you can also set CC to gcc-8
• 1692[13:02:07] <Tywin> nkuttler, oh well. I'll just do that.
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• 1696[13:02:49] <Tywin> Thanks
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• 1772[13:40:32] <revmoo> trying to upgrade from 17.10 to 18.04 I get Upgrades to the development release are only available from the latest supported release, even running do-release-upgrade -d
• 1773[13:40:43] <revmoo> what am I missing? I've tried all the tips from googling on this
• 1774[13:41:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1535
• 1775[13:41:17] <bites> revmoo: what you are missing is the name of this channel :P
• 1776[13:41:24] <revmoo> hahah sorry
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• 1779[13:41:51] <bites> or maybe he was from the future!
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• 1793[13:51:08] <drunknigga> i need help
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• 1807[14:01:28] <keka> have a nice day folks, need to power off :)
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• 1828[14:15:06] <Meerkat> Why are changelogs for updates so rarely available? It bothers me :/
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• 1832[14:15:52] <babilen> Meerkat: I don't quite follow - every package update comes with a changelog, so they are anything but "rarely available"
• 1833[14:16:09] <SlidingHorn> Meerkat: as far as I'm aware, there are always changelogs
• 1834[14:17:08] <babilen> Meerkat: What kind of changelogs are you looking for and where have you looked so far?
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• 1841[14:18:38] <Meerkat> wget update 1.18-5+deb9u2 returns "Changelog unavailable for wget=1.18-5+deb9u2 (404 Not Found [IP: 151.101.84.204 80])" using synaptic, apt, apt-get, and aptitude.
• 1842[14:19:26] <Meerkat> same for libwavpack1 and the latest kernel update for Deb9.
• 1843[14:19:39] <jelly> they're in the package however. You can install apt-listchanges and review before (choosing to) upgrade with apt/apt-get/aptitude
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• 1846[14:20:47] <SlidingHorn> Meerkat: also, if you've already installed and are looking to see changes afterward, see /usr/share/doc/$packagename/changelog.Debian.gz
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• 1852[14:24:04] <Guest43647> Anyone good with stretch exim4 talking to mysys (mariadb)? I am getting "exim4 -bt" works but remote mail results in "MYSQL connection failed: Access denied for user 'root'@'localhost'" for the same address.
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• 1880[14:38:45] <Haohmaru> #stay
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• 1911[15:02:07] <dutchfish> hi, how can i make apt-listbugs to show the list of bugs/remarks it showed on aptitude update && aptitude upgrade, again?
• 1912[15:02:35] <greycat> look for a NEWS.* file in /usr/share/doc/thatpackage/
• 1913[15:02:50] <greycat> could be tricky if you don't know which package it was
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• 1915[15:03:23] <rek> hi greycat bootstrapping takes so long
• 1916[15:03:27] <dutchfish> greycat, yes, i was to quick accepting the upgrade and failed to properly notice its remarks
• 1917[15:03:31] <greycat> actually look for a NEWS.Debian.gz file specifically; other NEWS* files don't count
• 1918[15:03:47] <themill> (apt-listbugs not apt-listchanges)
• 1919[15:03:59] <greycat> oh
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• 1924[15:05:25] <dutchfish> or any way, i can make apt-listbugs show the bugs for the currently installed packages?
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• 1926[15:05:37] <greycat> ALL of them?!
• 1927[15:05:53] <greycat> my god, I can't even get through a bug list for ONE package
• 1928[15:05:57] <dutchfish> greycat, nah, just -s critical for ALL packages
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• 1930[15:06:38] <dutchfish> OR apt-listbugs is currently broken on testing
• 1931[15:06:53] <dutchfish> but i gues its just me
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• 1941[15:12:35] <SilicateWielder> Hi, could someone help me get Steam working? from the research I've done I'm seeing that I'm missing libxcb1:i386 though I already have the most current version.
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• 1943[15:13:29] <SilicateWielder> home/silicate/.local/share/Steam/steam.sh reports "line 444: no match: ssfn*"
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• 1945[15:14:55] <jken> Hello, can anyone tell me if it is possible to configure the initial mouse pointer position when X starts? I am currently doing it via xdotool in .xinitrc, but am trying to move it out of the way even earlier if possible.
• 1946[15:15:09] <SlidingHorn> SilicateWielder: what method did you use to install steam?
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• 1948[15:15:33] <tw> SilicateWielder: did you follow this? replaced-url
• 1949[15:16:08] <SlidingHorn> jken: That'd be the way to do it as far as I know...do you have other commands in your .xinitrc? Maybe make the pointer position the 1st item?
• 1950[15:16:27] <SilicateWielder> Steam is installed from a debian package provided on the steam website
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• 1952[15:16:41] <tw> SilicateWielder: this is the method I use for Steam, but it's a chroot and only set up for nvidia: replaced-url
• 1953[15:16:53] <SilicateWielder> or was, I had some driver issues so I later installed it from apt
• 1954[15:17:42] <jken> SlidingHorn, It is already the first thing in my .xinitrc
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• 1958[15:18:51] <jken> I wonder if openbox is centering the mouse, it's the last thing started in my xinitrc
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• 1960[15:19:11] <SilicateWielder> Ah, if this was my desktop I'd try the method you linked but I'm currently on a laptop with integrated radeon graphics
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• 1963[15:21:09] <tw> SilicateWielder: looks like the only reference to nvidia is that nvidia-driver-libs. If there's an equivalent package for amdgpu, you might be in business.
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• 1967[15:24:10] <SilicateWielder> I tried purging and reinstalling, apparently I can run steam using the path ~/.local/share/Steam/ubuntu12_32/steam
• 1968[15:24:26] <tw> How do you expect to run it that it isn't working?
• 1969[15:24:47] <SilicateWielder> however the school network i'm on is blocking it from performing the update it needs to run
• 1970[15:25:18] <SilicateWielder> I was just using the steam command prior to this, which has worked for me before with other distros of linux
• 1971[15:25:50] <tw> Probably not related, but if you're on stretch, be sure to install that libdb5.1 package from jessie.
• 1972[15:26:05] <tw> Otherwise the steam browser doesn't work.
• 1973[15:26:14] <SilicateWielder> okay, thanks for the heads up
• 1974[15:26:36] <tw> you need both the i386 and amd64 packages, most likely.
• 1975[15:26:52] <tw> There's an open bug on the steam linux github about it.
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• 1980[15:32:25] <cluelessperson> tw: Steam is 32 bit, so yes
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• 2002[15:44:47] <epergny> Samsung 950 Pro M.2 SSD, I get actual sustained read speed of nearly 1 Gb/s without issue (say "time crc32 8gigfile" in less than 8s), on a full LUKS encrypted drive. However...
• 2003[15:45:34] <epergny> I get abysmall write speeds: about 50 MB/s Any idea why? I've searched the net and ppl with similar SSD on encrypted filesystem get 150 MB/s and more.
• 2004[15:46:00] <tw> epergny: what algorithms did you select?
• 2005[15:46:02] <epergny> Heck, my crappy old laptop with an old SSD, also fully encrypted, gets 120 MB/s sustained write.
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• 2007[15:46:07] <epergny> @tw: for LUKS?
• 2008[15:46:10] <tw> yes
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• 2010[15:46:27] <epergny> ah no idea: default install I guess. Can this affect write only but not read?
• 2011[15:46:47] <tw> Shouldn't but might.
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• 2021[15:51:56] <cluelessperson> epergny: look at your system cpu,ram, etc when you perform the tests
• 2022[15:52:01] <cluelessperson> identify the bottleneck
• 2023[15:52:02] <epergny> cryptsetup benchmark doesn't report any algo slower than 386 MiB/s (twofish-xts). Still don't know which one I'm using.
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• 2027[15:52:30] <epergny> cluelessperson: I've seen reports on the Debian mailing lists of people booting into text mode, running nothing, having the same issue
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• 2030[15:53:05] <cluelessperson> epergny: okay, let's start with analyzing the issue
• 2031[15:53:11] <cluelessperson> you can't fix it if you can't pinpoint it
• 2032[15:53:19] <epergny> cluelessperson: also I don't see what the bottleneck can be when I get 1 Gb/s read and 50 Mb/s write : - / I mean: what would affect write speed but not reads?
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• 2034[15:53:46] <cluelessperson> epergny: who knows, analyzing the issue gives us info
• 2035[15:53:59] <cluelessperson> epergny: try hdparm and look at advanced options
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• 2037[15:54:32] <epergny> cluelessperson: but hdparm is good for raw read speeds, but not write : ( I'll check hdparm options see if I can find anything
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• 2043[15:56:53] <wutduff> Hi there
• 2044[15:57:10] <wutduff> In the netinst of debian 9 the live is asking me my domain name
• 2045[15:57:20] <wutduff> What if i leave it empty?
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• 2048[15:57:35] <wutduff> What should will it happen?
• 2049[15:57:36] <greycat> that's usually fine, if you aren't part of an organizewd network
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• 2051[15:57:44] <wutduff> Ok thanks
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• 2057[15:59:27] <epergny> hdparm -tT /dev/nvme0n1 Timing cached reads: 15 360.67 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 1 274.47 MB/sec
• 2058[16:00:06] <epergny> and I definitely close to 1000 MB/sec doing reads on uncached huge files. Bamboozled as to how I get sustained write of only 50 MB/s (that 1/20th the read speed).
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• 2060[16:00:51] <cluelessperson> eschwartz: can you show the output for write
• 2061[16:00:59] <epergny> sure
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• 2066[16:03:38] <epergny> time dd if=/dev/zero of=/root/delme.tmp conv=fdatasync bs=1M count=1k; both time and dd do "match": dd gives (1.1 GB, 1.0 GiB) copied, 20.0965 s, 53.4 MB/s while "time" gives: real 0m19.803s
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• 2071[16:04:36] <epergny> 16 GB of RAM, not much used
• 2072[16:04:39] <cluelessperson> epergny: what happened to the write results?
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• 2074[16:04:43] <cluelessperson> for hdparm
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• 2077[16:06:34] <epergny> cluelessperson: I've never seen hdparm recommended to test write speeds (can hdparm even do that?). Reading the --help and googling.
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• 2083[16:08:31] <epergny> all I find is: "hdparm does not have the ability to find the write speed".
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• 2087[16:10:24] <epergny> really weird thing is: sustained read speeds of about 1 Gb/s is, I'm willing to bet, was most (not all, but most) users get here while sustained write speeds of about 50 Mb/s is, I'm willing to bet again, probably less than what most get here.
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• 2089[16:10:48] <epergny> erf sentence : )
• 2090[16:11:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1555
• 2091[16:11:47] <epergny> I may, if I'm bored, install the latest stable Debian on this machine (just installed it on my laptop) and try without disk encryption, with basically nothing. To troobleshoot a bit.
• 2092[16:11:59] <jelly> epergny: did you clear cache before testing read throughput?
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• 2095[16:12:30] <jelly> and do you mean 1GB/s where you wrote "1 Gb/s"
• 2096[16:12:43] <greycat> pretty sure he meant GB in all cases
• 2097[16:12:45] <jelly> small b means "bits"
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• 2100[16:14:03] <epergny> yup sorry, GB
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• 2104[16:15:16] <epergny> I always make the mistake because in french GB is "Go", not "GO", MB is Mo, etc.
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• 2107[16:15:30] <RoyK> erm - don't use hdparm or dd to measure disk speed - use something like fio instead
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• 2109[16:16:17] <jelly> at least Go as a unit is not ambiguous
• 2110[16:16:40] <epergny> RoyK: I did better: timing crc32 of a 8 GB file which was clearly not cached. Result are also about 1 GB/s, basically agreeing with hdparm's read speedtest.
• 2111[16:16:47] <epergny> RoyK: but I can check fio too
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• 2141[16:27:26] <regdude> Hi! How can I configure bonding interface to use ARP checking instead of MII? Adding arp_target x.x.x.x to /etc/network/interfaces does not seem to work
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• 2151[16:29:15] <epergny> Oh well, makes sense to me that I can actually copy huge files (like VMs) over the network an have the gigabit switch actually being the bottleneck (as long as huge file fits in cache/RAM on the destination computer) and get 50 MB/s sustained write speed (as tested by me with huge files) and 25 MB/s random write (as measured by fio).
• 2152[16:29:31] <epergny> but whatever: gat to go now... FML. 1 GB/s reads, 50 to 25 MB/s write.
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• 2159[16:33:46] <regdude> nvm, miimon must be removed
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• 2169[16:38:32] <wutduff> Hi again... i'm downloading the cinnamon desktop.. file 110 of 1416
• 2170[16:38:51] <slax0r> good for you?
• 2171[16:38:51] <wutduff> But it is the 110th since half an hour
• 2172[16:39:58] <wutduff> Is it a problem? The pc is still working.. i can move the mouse pointer and the network is still going
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• 2174[16:40:27] <wutduff> slax0r for me it's enough if it downloads it lol
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• 2179[16:42:18] <wutduff> Should i wait for it?
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• 2183[16:44:09] <bb36e__> I really want a couple of KDE bugs to get fixed, but it looks like the fixes won't be backported...guess I'll wait till 2019 :/
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• 2186[16:45:48] <Tywin> bb36e__, come to the sid side
• 2187[16:45:52] <epergny> depression is going to set: with my random r/w speed of 25 MB/s and a 300 Mbps symmetric fiber Internet connection, when I'm d/l ing from fast server my freakin M.2 Samsung 950 Pro SSD is somehow the bottleneck.
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• 2196[16:52:22] <bb36e__> epergny: haha, like getting a ferarri but only being able to drive in a parking lot
• 2197[16:52:32] <jelly> epergny: are you sure the ssd is the bottleneck and not some single-threaded kernel thing in cpu?
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• 2210[16:57:45] <epergny> jelly: I'll have to check that too but I don't see excessive cpu usage at all. I think I'll try with a totally clean system just to be sure.
• 2211[16:58:04] <epergny> found the LUKS encryption type, it's one of the fastest in the benchmark. So it's probably not that either.
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• 2215[16:59:09] <killwill> clear
• 2216[16:59:12] <epergny> bb36e__: yes, I had that happen to me... Car without insurance, still needed to fire the engine once every x months, so I'd just drive a bit in an underground garage. Not good but better than not starting the engine at all for years.
• 2217[16:59:15] <killwill> Whoops
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• 2220[17:00:40] <jordila> #debian ers ... anyone willing to share DKIM mail signing experiences for mailing ?
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• 2223[17:02:46] <jordila> scenario : PHPList for Newsletters + POSTFIX mail server , i'm wondering ... do i really need 'DKIM' email signing , when using my own Mail Server rather than SMTP sending ?
• 2224[17:02:53] <jordila> What am i missing ?
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• 2246[17:10:34] <AquaL1te> sup, i'm running debian 9 stretch. i noticed that `ss -wantus` doesn't list udp sockets, while the statistics output does mention a total of 6 sockets. i can reproduce it on 2 raspberry pi's. can someone reproduce it on a 'normal' machine? on fedora it does display udp sockets along with the rest what you would expect
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• 2291[17:33:06] <jelly> epergny: when you have 8 cores, 12.5% cpu usage is a single thread completely saturated
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• 2294[17:33:51] <jelly> epergny: iostat -x 1 and vmstat 1 are your friends
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• 2304[17:39:34] <Tywin> Out of curiosity, are there people in here that compile their own kernels?
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• 2307[17:41:43] <Tywin> Because the toolset is freaking horrible and I'm wondering whether it's because it's rarely used and unmaintained or just because the maintainers are downright idiots X_X
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• 2309[17:42:30] <greycat> !kernel handbook
• 2310[17:42:30] <dpkg> The Debian Linux Kernel Handbook replaced-url
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• 2312[17:42:58] <Tywin> greycat, I am following that and I'm getting an avalanche of errors
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• 2324[17:46:40] <Tywin> Right now make-kpkg is hanging and splurging out an ambiguous "Failed to create a ./debian directory: at /usr/bin/make-kpkg line 970." error when terminating
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• 2352[17:58:44] <coreilly> Is debian having a dns issue?
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• 2364[18:02:40] <SlidingHorn> coreilly: Not likely...what's the issue you're having? Also, version of Debian you're running?
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• 2367[18:02:50] <coreilly> bind 9.2
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• 2369[18:03:06] <coreilly> I was doing lookups and couldn't get ftp.us.debian.org
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• 2372[18:03:45] <coreilly> coreilly@bunoc-idns0:~$ dig @localhost ftp.us.debian.org +short coreilly@bunoc-idns0:~$ coreilly@bunoc-idns0:~$ coreilly@bunoc-idns0:~$ dig @localhost replaced-url
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• 2374[18:03:56] <coreilly> Ah the formatting of that is shitty
• 2375[18:04:12] <coreilly> but I can lookup replaced-url
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• 2377[18:04:33] <greycat> I get three responses for ftp.us.debian.org
• 2378[18:04:43] <jhutchins_wk> Me too.
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• 2380[18:05:05] <coreilly> If I do +trace it fails on sec1.rcode0.net
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• 2382[18:05:18] <coreilly> which is the name server for debian.org
• 2383[18:05:21] <rek> join #debian-offtopic
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• 2385[18:05:36] <coreilly> 8.8.8.8 works but I think that might be cached.
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• 2389[18:06:01] <BCMM> coreilly: why are you using +short?
• 2390[18:06:06] <rek> hi. i have 390.48 which cuda toolkit can i install without ruining everything? i'm running debian stretch
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• 2392[18:06:11] <coreilly> doing dig @8.8.8.8 ftp.us.debian.org +trace shows wackiness
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• 2395[18:06:23] <coreilly> I'm doing +short for the sake of brevity
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• 2398[18:06:29] <BCMM> coreilly: consider pastebinning the entire output
• 2399[18:06:39] <BCMM> instead of pasting short output in the channel
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• 2401[18:07:29] <greycat> I get the same three responses from dig +short @sec1.rcode0.net ftp.us.debian.org
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• 2406[18:08:33] <coreilly> here's the pastebin - replaced-url
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• 2409[18:08:43] <coreilly> try dig ftp.us.debian.org +trace
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• 2415[18:09:47] <rek> can i get cuda 9.1 sources somewhere?
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• 2420[18:12:32] <coreilly> just for the sake of completeness here's that same lookup but against Google's DNS - replaced-url
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• 2422[18:12:50] <coreilly> it also dies on the name servers for debian.org
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• 2453[18:25:31] <jhutchins_wk> It completes for me.
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• 2465[18:31:07] <jelly> sec1.rcode0.net is not "the" NS for debian.org, there are others, and dig from here gets results ;; Received 328 bytes from 176.97.158.100#53(sec2.rcode0.net) in 22 ms
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• 2467[18:31:46] <rek> is there cuda toolkit 9 for debian?
• 2468[18:32:35] <jelly> ,v nvidia-cuda-toolkit
• 2469[18:32:36] <judd> Package: nvidia-cuda-toolkit on amd64 -- wheezy/non-free: 4.2.9-2; wheezy-backports/non-free: 5.5.22-6~bpo70+2; jessie/non-free: 6.0.37-5; jessie-backports/non-free: 7.5.18-4~bpo8+1; stretch/non-free: 8.0.44-4; buster/non-free: 9.1.85-4+b1; sid/non-free: 9.1.85-4+b1
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• 2472[18:32:58] <jelly> rek: only in testing and unstable branches apparently
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• 2475[18:33:32] <jelly> ,checkbackport nvidia-cuda-toolkit
• 2476[18:33:33] <judd> Backporting package nvidia-cuda-toolkit in sid→stretch/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using stretch, archignore, stretch-backports.
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• 2478[18:33:49] <jelly> possibly worth trying to build
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• 2483[18:34:46] <jelly> rek: if you want to try building the binary .deb yourself, the bot has a recipe so ask it: /msg dpkg ssb
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• 2485[18:35:53] <jelly> ,checkbackport nvidia-cuda-dev
• 2486[18:35:54] <judd> Backporting package nvidia-cuda-dev in sid→stretch/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using stretch, archignore, stretch-backports.
• 2487[18:36:11] <rek> jelly where are the sources??
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• 2489[18:36:47] <rek> but i see 8 in stretch i need 9.1 or something i guess?
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• 2491[18:37:25] <jelly> rek: the sources are in sid, not in stretch.
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• 2493[18:37:51] <rek> of which cuda toolkit version?
• 2494[18:38:06] <jelly> see what judd said above, sid/non-free: 9.1.85-4+b1
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• 2496[18:39:08] <rek> are there cuda toolkit sources from nvidia too? uhm so do i have to add a line on my apt?
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• 2498[18:39:11] <jelly> so with that in mind, one possible way forward is to try building the toolkit itself, for stretch
• 2499[18:39:17] <rek> how does it works
• 2500[18:39:39] *** Joins: somnambler (~michael@replaced-ip)
• 2501[18:39:52] <jelly> ask the dpkg bot, read the recipe for "backporting"
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• 2504[18:40:16] <jelly> and try following those instructions
• 2505[18:40:27] <jelly> rek: /msg dpkg ssb
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• 2509[18:41:12] <rek> cuda 9.1 in sid? could be good... but what would say synaptic when installing it and seeing i have nvidia-driver installed with the .run.... maybe it's not compatible lilke now i'm trying to install cuda 8 i have in stretch repositories and it encourages me to run the uninstall from nvidia first while attempting to install the toolkit
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• 2512[18:42:04] <jelly> rek: you do not INSTALL it from sid. You tke sources from sid, and BUILD packages on your stretch installation. If that works
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• 2514[18:42:21] <jelly> you get to install the .deb packages you successfully built
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• 2516[18:42:46] <nodiscc> hi, I found something strange about the fail2ban systemd service
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• 2518[18:42:54] <jelly> rek: if you used nvidia's own -run installer shit will be broken anyway
• 2519[18:43:11] <jelly> so uninstall that first
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• 2525[18:44:23] <nodiscc> I had set 'bantime = 604800 # 7days' in one of my fail2ban jails, fail2Ban config does not accept inline comments, so fail2ban-client reload returned an error:
• 2526[18:44:29] <nodiscc> WARNING Wrong value for 'bantime' in 'sshd'. Using default one: 'None'
• 2527[18:45:23] <happyfr0gg> If I install ubuntu package repos in debian, will they install and run without errors?
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• 2529[18:45:33] <nodiscc> if I run 'systemctl status fail2ban.service' I see that ExecReload returns an error (code=exited, status=255)
• 2530[18:45:40] <greycat> !don't break debian
• 2531[18:45:40] <dpkg> rumour has it, dont break debian is replaced-url
• 2532[18:45:48] <greycat> happyfr0gg: replaced-url
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• 2534[18:46:11] <Azrael_-> using backports = breaking?
• 2535[18:46:16] <nodiscc> but yet the service itself is marked as 'Active: active (running)', and it returns exit code 0
• 2536[18:46:19] <jelly> Azrael_-: no
• 2537[18:46:49] <nodiscc> shouldn't 'systemctl --status fail2ban.service' return a non-zero exit code?
• 2538[18:46:49] <greycat> Using the official backports is the second safest thing you can do, after using only stable.
• 2539[18:47:02] <jelly> happyfr0gg: if you need to run ubuntu packages, use ubuntu
• 2540[18:47:13] <nodiscc> It made me think that my config was correct for a while because I only checked the service status
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• 2542[18:47:27] <Azrael_-> k
• 2543[18:47:31] <rek> great greycat is here the guy from yesterday.... i succede it bootstraping gcc 5
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• 2546[18:48:25] <happyfr0gg> I figured since ubuntu is based from debian the repo packages could be compatible?
• 2547[18:48:33] <petn-randall> !based on
• 2548[18:48:33] <dpkg> Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare replaced-url
• 2549[18:48:42] <petn-randall> happyfr0gg: There not, not even close. ^^^
• 2550[18:48:46] <petn-randall> *They're
• 2551[18:48:53] <rek> greycat i just run a ln -s /usr/local/gcc-5/bin/gcc /usr/bin/gcc don't know if that is enough....though
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• 2553[18:49:22] <greycat> Try it and see.
• 2554[18:49:25] <jelly> rek: don't do that. export CC=/path/to/your/gcc-5 instead
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• 2557[18:49:37] <greycat> Well, depends on what he's doing.
• 2558[18:49:48] <greycat> I'll defer to jelly on anything nvidia related.
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• 2560[18:50:06] <nodiscc> if I run 'systemctl status fail2ban.service' I see that 'ExecReload=/usr/bin/fail2ban-client reload' returns an error (code=exited, status=255)
• 2561[18:50:15] <nodiscc> sorry bad paste
• 2562[18:50:19] <jelly> depending onwhat he's doing, consequences of changing system gcc symlink will be seen soon or later
• 2563[18:50:31] <jelly> (it's not about nvidia)
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• 2568[18:51:13] <jelly> nothing wrong with putting it in /usr/local/bin which is ALSO in default PATH. Why break /usr prefix
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• 2570[18:51:23] <rek> can i use gcc5 only for building once?
• 2571[18:51:49] <thescientist> Hi. Anyone has experience with google earth pro? I'm having some troubles with it. Thanks.
• 2572[18:51:52] <jelly> rek: can you set CC once and unset it later or just close that shell?
• 2573[18:52:12] <jelly> "probably"
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• 2576[18:54:05] <nodiscc> thescientist: no but it interests me. what are you using it for and what kind of problem do you have?
• 2577[18:54:06] <rek> local/gcc-5/bin/gcc so running ls- ld doesn't give me the same info it gave me with gcc-6 which is in tha path i guess... instead of telling me --> gcc-6 or gcc it tells me the entire path to gcc is this normal? sould i do something i did all this mess to build some stuff i cannot even build now because i need cuda 9.1 or something if i want to keep my latest 390 driver which i installed from nvidia .run unfortunately....
• 2578[18:54:24] <jelly> rek: but sure, you can overwrite /usr/bin/gcc, do your thing, and put it back later, it's just a bad practice, prone to errors
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• 2581[18:54:56] <rek> not probably we're sure i bootstrapped that stuff for the whole afternoon and morning
• 2582[18:55:16] <rek> jelly, what's a better practice?
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• 2586[18:55:45] <jelly> to change things in /usr/bin only via packaging system
• 2587[18:56:04] <rek> is this link enough even if gcc5 is not in the path i mean if i press tab i don't see it instead i see gcc6
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• 2589[18:56:24] <jelly> rek: your command is called just "gcc" not "gcc5"
• 2590[18:56:32] <rek> true
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• 2593[18:56:53] <jelly> rek: so what does "/usr/local/gcc-5/bin/gcc --version" say?
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• 2595[18:57:22] <jelly> is it 5 or 6 or what
• 2596[18:57:29] <jelly> if it's 5, use it
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• 2598[18:57:54] <thescientist> nodiscc I am using it to insert coordinates of collected samples. I usually use the mac version but i am interested in using the "linux" version since this computer is much more powerful than the laptop. my problem is that i install it but when open the software doesn't display properly
• 2599[18:58:06] <rek> gcc version 5.5.0 (GCC)
• 2600[18:58:45] <rek> but when i'll compile my stuff will i have to say something about where is gcc? no because i put a symlink and i should be ok
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• 2604[18:59:42] <rek> why sid have a more advanced version of cuda
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• 2609[19:00:31] <jelly> because it was released in the time between stretch freeze and now.
• 2610[19:00:37] <jelly> !freeze
• 2611[19:00:37] <dpkg> The 'freeze' is when large changes to testing version of Debian are stopped for few months. During this period, no new package uploads are made except to fix critical bugs or to provide documentation updates. During the freeze, bugs are squashed to 'stabilize' the release to make the new 'stable'. Stretch started to freeze in Nov 2016 and entered full freeze on 5 Feb 2017. Also ask me about <slushy>, <stretch freeze>.
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• 2618[19:03:09] <thescientist> nodiscc: I am using it to insert coordinates of collected samples. I usually use the mac version but i am interested in using the "linux" version since this computer is much more powerful than the laptop. my problem is that i install it but when open the software doesn't display properly.
• 2619[19:04:22] <jelly> thescientist: which debian release are you using, and which gpu card is inside?
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• 2622[19:04:43] <nodiscc> thescientist: is it this one? replaced-url
• 2623[19:06:14] <thescientist> jelly: Debian GNU/Linux testing (buster) x86_64 (from crunchbangplusplus) and i am using the integrated graphics of my cpu, Intel HD Graphics
• 2624[19:06:26] <thescientist> nodiscc: yes, that one precisely
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• 2627[19:07:10] <nodiscc> thescientist: does it thrown any errors/warnings when run from a terminal/console?
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• 2633[19:09:39] <thescientist> nodiscc: no, none
• 2634[19:10:10] <nodiscc> (else have you considered using an openstreetmap editor to do the job? not my business and maybe you really require GE. if you only want to export KML/KMZ then one of these should be fine replaced-url
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• 2639[19:11:25] <nodiscc> (saying because it could be hard to find support for closed source proprietary software here. I'd ask on GE support channels if there are any)
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• 2645[19:13:37] <rek> using stretch, archignore, stretch-backports. i have to add a line in apt?
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• 2649[19:14:38] <thescientist> nodiscc: this is more a question of convenience, for presentations, "quick jobs" and checks it is simpler software to use. for serious stuff I use qgis, the proper tool for this king of thing
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• 2651[19:15:57] <thescientist> nodisc: but I understand you suggestion and the position I am in. Also I have yet to install QGIS and see how it performs on this machine/OS.
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• 2654[19:16:04] <rek> ,checkbackport nvidia-driver
• 2655[19:16:06] <judd> Backporting package nvidia-driver in sid→stretch/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using stretch, stretch-backports.
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• 2657[19:16:19] <rek> version judd?
• 2658[19:16:31] <greycat> It said sid -> stretch.
• 2659[19:16:54] <rek> i have version 390
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• 2661[19:17:03] <nodiscc> I understand yeah qgis is more than fine, I just checked the google-eart-pro package and it depends on:
• 2662[19:17:03] <nodiscc> libasound2, libc6, libcups2, libdbus-1-3, libfontconfig1, libfreetype6, libgcc1, libglib2.0-0, libglu1-mesa, libgstreamer1.0-0, libgstreamer-plugins-base1.0-0, libproxy1 | libproxy1v5, libsm6, libstdc++6, libx11-6, libx11-xcb1, libxcb1, libxext6, libxml2, libxrender1, libxtst6
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• 2666[19:18:17] <nodiscc> but they don't specify versions and/or if this package is built debian 8, 9, ? so that may be a missing dependency?
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• 2669[19:18:48] <rek> 390.48 cool but then i have to backport also this
• 2670[19:19:06] <kot> just curious, has anyone heard of any gotchas using the 4.16 kernel in stretch?
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• 2673[19:19:28] <greycat> A few people on debian-user said they had issues that were fixed by reverting to a 4.15.x.
• 2674[19:19:30] <nodiscc> anyway I know very little about gis, I use to add very basic placemarks in marble (replaced-url
• 2675[19:20:20] <kot> hm, interesting. thanks greycat.
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• 2680[19:21:58] <thescientist> nodiscc: I am very new to this, so I have to go slowly. I always try to check when installing if any error message appears, if many dependencies are necessary, etc. I will check those dependencies with the terminal or synaptic and see if any need to be reinstalled or are missing somehow.
• 2681[19:22:05] <rek> i'll add deb replaced-url
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• 2684[19:23:54] <thescientist> nodiscc:This was more of a convenience "problem". For this job, which is supposed to be quick I can still rely on the mac version, and since it is a laptop it is always ready. I will investigate further and see what I can find, maybe it will be useful to more people in the future.
• 2685[19:24:49] *** Quits: HoSy (~HS_@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2686[19:25:06] <nodiscc> thescientist: I am installing it on a debian 9 stable box to see if it works
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• 2690[19:26:51] <rek> 'm not sure which lines to add guys
• 2691[19:27:52] <thescientist> nodiscc: Thank you, you are being very helpful.
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• 2694[19:28:53] <beastwick> is it possible to install kfreebsd on an existing debian install?
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• 2696[19:28:54] <nodiscc> thescientist: it works ok for me replaced-url
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• 2700[19:30:22] <thescientist> nodiscc: mine is like this replaced-url
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• 2703[19:30:50] <rek> ,checkbackports nvidia-cuda-toolkit
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• 2705[19:31:54] <thescientist> nodiscc: so, this means something went "wrong" from debian stable to unstable that i am using
• 2706[19:32:25] <rek> no toolkit judd?
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• 2712[19:36:01] <nodiscc> thescientist: their package is probably for debian stable yeah. no way to be really sure.
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• 2719[19:38:23] <depesz> hi. i have a problem on intel nuc (small barebone computer) that after booting it stops displaying anything. x doesn't start, and i see boot messages up to some point, and then the screen goes dark
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• 2722[19:38:40] <depesz> i assume/guess that something sets some "wrong" graphics mode
• 2723[19:38:47] <depesz> but how can I check what, and disable it?
• 2724[19:38:50] <nodiscc> depesz: does it boot in recovery mode?
• 2725[19:38:54] <depesz> i have access to this box via ssh
• 2726[19:38:57] <nodiscc> (from the grub menu)
• 2727[19:39:04] <depesz> moment. let me try.
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• 2729[19:39:37] <depesz> same thing happens
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• 2731[19:39:43] <depesz> it boots happily, and then stops displaying anything.
• 2732[19:39:57] <depesz> i can shoot a video that shows the effect, but I'm not sure how helpful it would be.
• 2733[19:40:12] <SlidingHorn> depesz: does it typically have a graphical login or tty?
• 2734[19:40:15] <depesz> in recovery mode ssh is down, so now I can't connect there.
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• 2737[19:40:30] <depesz> SlidingHorn: it doesn't have either because it doesn't display anything.
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• 2740[19:40:41] <depesz> i started with purely text console in debian stable.
• 2741[19:40:50] <depesz> any kind of insallation of x makes it stop displaying anything.
• 2742[19:40:55] <depesz> even when X hasn't even started.
• 2743[19:40:57] <nodiscc> ok I'd try to set nomodeset in boot options
• 2744[19:41:02] <depesz> i stopped all x related things, and display is still gone.
• 2745[19:41:37] <nodiscc> in /etc/default/grub at GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT
• 2746[19:41:51] <depesz> well, i edited grub command line.
• 2747[19:41:51] <nodiscc> then 'update-grub' and reboot
• 2748[19:41:55] <nodiscc> k
• 2749[19:42:00] <depesz> ok. with nomodeset it boots to working text mode.
• 2750[19:42:04] <depesz> but how can I now start X?
• 2751[19:42:15] <depesz> my endgame is to have working X environment.
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• 2753[19:42:21] <greycat> Try 'startx' and see what happens.
• 2754[19:42:26] <depesz> on it.
• 2755[19:42:31] <nodiscc> depesz: either that or install a DM like lightdm
• 2756[19:43:02] <greycat> I would hold off on installing the DM until startx works.
• 2757[19:43:04] <depesz> nothing. startx + enter - nothing has changed. i still see terminal with the command typed in, no messages, nohing has changed
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• 2759[19:43:20] <depesz> i think i read somewhere that nomodeset means that x won't start.
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• 2761[19:43:36] <nodiscc> ps aux | grep Xorg
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• 2763[19:43:43] <greycat> nomodeset turns off Kernel Mode Setting, which is one of the ways X can operate
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• 2766[19:43:45] <depesz> root 780 1.0 0.0 0 0 tty1 Z 19:43 0:00 [Xorg] <defunct>
• 2767[19:43:48] <depesz> ^^ nodiscc
• 2768[19:44:46] <depesz> replaced-url
• 2769[19:44:50] <depesz> this is xorg.0.log
• 2770[19:45:16] <depesz> wow. after some (long time) there is output in the console - basically - "no screens found"
• 2771[19:45:22] <depesz> can provide photo if it would help.
• 2772[19:45:38] <jhutchins_wk> depesz: /var/log/Xorg.0.log
• 2773[19:45:45] <depesz> jhutchins_wk: yes?
• 2774[19:45:52] <jhutchins_wk> depesz: Very noisy, but it will tell you what's happening.
• 2775[19:46:02] <greycat> or ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log depending
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• 2777[19:46:08] <nodiscc> depesz: apt-cache policy xserver-xorg-video-all
• 2778[19:46:10] <depesz> but i just showed you?
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• 2782[19:46:48] <depesz> nodiscc: replaced-url
• 2783[19:47:08] <nodiscc> depesz: apt install xerver-xorg-video-all
• 2784[19:47:13] <depesz> jhutchins_wk: / greycat : i pasted the whole file 3 minutes ago: 194446 depesz | replaced-url
• 2785[19:47:22] <nodiscc> reboot
• 2786[19:47:22] *** Joins: sir_wombat (~andreas@replaced-ip)
• 2787[19:47:51] <greycat> urrent Operating System: Linux bednuc 4.16.0-1-amd64
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• 2789[19:48:32] <depesz> nodiscc: installed. did startx. i think it helped. i got kde screen. checking if it does have libva support
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• 2794[19:48:57] <nodiscc> depesz: your xorg.0.log was reporting (EE) Failed to load module "fbdev" and other modules multiple times
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• 2797[19:49:21] <depesz> nodiscc: ok. how can I make it use intel driver?
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• 2799[19:49:38] <depesz> I need this box to have hardware-video-decode support. which supposedly should work.
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• 2801[19:50:29] <nodiscc> depesz: does it work without nomodeset now?
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• 2804[19:51:04] <depesz> moment, doing reboot with nomodeset actually in /etc/default/grub
• 2805[19:51:15] <depesz> ok. reboot: got console.
• 2806[19:51:18] <nodiscc> nope, I meant, without it
• 2807[19:51:19] <depesz> logging in and starting x
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• 2809[19:51:30] <depesz> without nomodeset - no. it doesn't same problem.
• 2810[19:51:34] <nodiscc> ok
• 2811[19:51:54] <depesz> as in: black screen.
• 2812[19:51:56] <jhutchin1_wk> depesz: What's your chipset?
• 2813[19:52:05] <depesz> the thing is that this black screen happens without any x thing starting.
• 2814[19:52:13] <depesz> jhutchin1_wk: how can I check?
• 2815[19:52:22] <greycat> lspci -nn
• 2816[19:52:41] <jhutchin1_wk> depesz: x probbably is starting, just not successfully. Your earlier message showed that it tried to start and failed.
• 2817[19:52:51] <depesz> replaced-url
• 2818[19:52:54] <depesz> jhutchin1_wk: no, it's not.
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• 2820[19:53:08] <jhutchin1_wk> depesz: Have you tried Ctrl-Alt-F1 to switch out of the dead screen?
• 2821[19:53:09] <depesz> if i run with nomodeset, i get normal console and I can start x by doing startx from logged account
• 2822[19:53:13] <depesz> i disabled sddm
• 2823[19:53:15] <depesz> jhutchin1_wk: yes.
• 2824[19:53:41] <depesz> i am 100% sure that without nodemoset comp starts, witout anything in x (i checked ps auxw output) and there is no visual
• 2825[19:53:48] <depesz> so, something in the console does something wrong
• 2826[19:54:10] <depesz> if you want, i can reboot one more time, without "nomodeset", ssh to the box, and get ps output and show you
• 2827[19:54:31] <jhutchin1_wk> ,pciid 8086:3185
• 2828[19:54:33] <judd> [8086:3185] is 'Unknown device' from 'Intel Corporation' with kernel modules 'snd-hda-intel', 'ata-generic' in stretch. See also replaced-url
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• 2831[19:55:59] <depesz> jhutchin1_wk: replaced-url
• 2832[19:56:15] <depesz> this is ps output right after reboot, without nomodeset, with no video coming over hdmi.
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• 2834[19:57:08] <depesz> judd : that's for me?
• 2835[19:57:11] <jhutchin1_wk> depesz: If X fails to start it's not going to be running.
• 2836[19:57:24] <thescientist> nodiscc: just checked those dependencies, only one missing is libproxy1 but i have the libproxy1v5
• 2837[19:57:30] <greycat> It's for anyone trying to figure out what your video chipset is and whether it's supported or not.
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• 2840[19:57:34] <depesz> jhutchin1_wk: but it didn't even try to start after boot
• 2841[19:57:45] <depesz> i disabled sddm
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• 2845[19:58:00] <jhutchin1_wk> depesz: That's what that black screen is.
• 2846[19:58:01] <nodiscc> thescientist: how did you install the google-earth-pro package?
• 2847[19:58:08] <depesz> i see that /var/log/Xorg.0.log is older than current boot
• 2848[19:58:26] <depesz> jhutchin1_wk: as i said: i have no idea, but there is clearly something doing it that doesn't seem to be x-related.
• 2849[19:58:29] *** Joins: guskr_ (~guskr@replaced-ip)
• 2850[19:58:46] <depesz> in any way - how can I make X use intel driver for graphics?
• 2851[19:59:28] <depesz> i guess what breaks my video normally is the same thing that changes font look on the console
• 2852[19:59:32] *** Quits: yo_man (~yo_man@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2853[19:59:35] <nodiscc> thescientist: if you installed it with 'dpkg -i google-earth-pro.deb', you need to run 'dpkg --configure -a' afterwards
• 2854[20:00:07] <rek> it seems like it didn't change much since i added stretch backports
• 2855[20:00:58] <nodiscc> depesz: yeah kernel modesetting is what makes the console font look good, and I don't think it's possible to have hardware video decoding without modesetting
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• 2860[20:01:27] <jhutchin1_wk> rek: You should read the documentation on the backports page. Just adding the repo does not make changes in your system.
• 2861[20:01:52] <rek> i did apt-get update
• 2862[20:01:54] *** Quits: Poster|n (~poster@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2863[20:02:07] <depesz> nodiscc: how can I make console *not* do the thing with modesetting?
• 2864[20:02:12] <depesz> or, force it to modeset to specific mode?
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• 2866[20:02:23] <petn-randall> rek: It seems like you didn't read the documentation yet.
• 2867[20:02:28] <depesz> as i suspect it simply changes to wrong mode - one that my tv doesn't support.
• 2868[20:02:37] <nodiscc> rek: by default backports package have lower priority, you have to pin them to a higher priority or specifically install a package with -t backports
• 2869[20:02:42] <greycat> depesz: put "nomodeset" back in, and see if it works that way, and *THEN* start worrying about performance and crap
• 2870[20:03:06] <depesz> greycat: with "nomodeset" it works - i get working console, and can get X using startx
• 2871[20:03:09] <depesz> so i'm kinda past that.
• 2872[20:03:18] <rek> replaced-url
• 2873[20:03:25] <depesz> but I need hw-video-decoding, as the box is supposed to be media player
• 2874[20:03:35] <nodiscc> depesz: I don't know, check what video card it is and if it's supported
• 2875[20:03:40] <greycat> And you tested hw-video-decoding and it failed...?
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• 2877[20:03:56] <depesz> greycat: i showed vainfo some time ago
• 2878[20:04:01] <greycat> nodiscc: nobody knows whether it's supported, judd doesn't have anything, kmuto doesn't have anything
• 2879[20:04:10] <depesz> it's built-in intel hd graphics thing.
• 2880[20:04:14] <rek> nodiscc, i did the -t trick... i don't know if the packages listed in the terminal are the version i want uhm...i'm not sure but i'm there...
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• 2883[20:04:43] <nodiscc> rek wait you need to be sure of what you are doing. I don't know your exact problem
• 2884[20:05:08] *** Quits: lucad111 (~lucad111@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2885[20:05:14] <jhutchin1_wk> depesz: You have a chipset that's not supported by current modules. You can try searchinf x.org for the pciid and see if there's a driver in the works upstream. It's vaguely possible that testing might be new enough to support it.
• 2886[20:05:26] <rek> launched apt-get -t stretch-backports install nvidia-cuda-toolkit
• 2887[20:05:33] <greycat> depesz: have you also checked for missing firmware errors from Linux?
• 2888[20:06:07] *** Quits: BlueByte_ (~walther@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
• 2889[20:06:16] <depesz> jhutchin1_wk: i'm on sid
• 2890[20:06:27] <jhutchin1_wk> depesz: Oh well.
• 2891[20:06:27] <depesz> greycat: where can I check it?
• 2892[20:06:42] <nodiscc> ,versions nvidia-cuda-toolkit
• 2893[20:06:43] <judd> Package: nvidia-cuda-toolkit on amd64 -- wheezy/non-free: 4.2.9-2; wheezy-backports/non-free: 5.5.22-6~bpo70+2; jessie/non-free: 6.0.37-5; jessie-backports/non-free: 7.5.18-4~bpo8+1; stretch/non-free: 8.0.44-4; buster/non-free: 9.1.85-4+b1; sid/non-free: 9.1.85-4+b1
• 2894[20:06:52] <greycat> depesz: dmesg | grep -i firmware
• 2895[20:07:17] <rek> this command is reinstalling the old packages in my opinion!!!
• 2896[20:07:17] <nodiscc> rek: you are on stretch?
• 2897[20:07:21] <rek> i am
• 2898[20:07:29] <depesz> greycat: replaced-url
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• 2901[20:08:19] <annadane> pasting on riseup, that's a first
• 2902[20:08:21] <greycat> depesz: well, start by fixing those
• 2903[20:08:24] <nodiscc> rek: apt-cache policy nvidia-toolkit
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• 2905[20:08:40] <nodiscc> (broken video card day)
• 2906[20:08:43] <greycat> at least the ones that look relevant to video, i.e. you can probably skip the iwlwifi for now
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• 2909[20:09:26] <depesz> greycat: which one looks related to video? i see only bluetooth and wifi ?
• 2910[20:09:44] <greycat> oh, is that what ibt is? I have no idea.
• 2911[20:09:49] *** Quits: llucenic (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 2912[20:10:06] <depesz> bluetooth hci0: firmware: failed to load intel/ibt-17-16-1.sfi (-2)
• 2913[20:10:09] <depesz> it sais bluetooth
• 2914[20:10:11] <nodiscc> depesz: you're right, apparently only missing firmware for wifi, bt and nic
• 2915[20:10:27] <depesz> it would be cool to get bt there, but I'm more interested in proper video
• 2916[20:10:41] <rek> replaced-url
• 2917[20:10:43] <greycat> Did stretch work?
• 2918[20:10:44] <depesz> so, is there any way i can force kms to some specific mode?
• 2919[20:10:56] <depesz> greycat: for me? no. same problems.
• 2920[20:11:04] <rek> nodiscc, up
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• 2922[20:11:24] <depesz> i also tested other distributions, and everywhere same problem - blank screen while booting
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• 2924[20:12:01] <greycat> Maybe your video chipset just isn't supported yet, or there's a hardware failure with this individual machine.
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• 2926[20:12:32] <nodiscc> rek: you have nvidia-cuda-toolkit 8.0.44-4 installed, what version do you want?
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• 2929[20:12:58] <rek> nodiscc, i want to have my nvidia 390 driver and a compatible cuda toolkit like 9.1 i believe....
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• 2931[20:13:14] <rek> the one judd the mr bot said was good
• 2932[20:13:16] <nodiscc> depesz: I bet on your chipset not being supported yet. I'd try to install firmware-linux-free firmware-linux-nonfree but seems like you're out of luxk
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• 2936[20:13:54] <depesz> trying ...
• 2937[20:14:06] <SlidingHorn> rek: that version isn't available in stretch (unless you want to build it yourself, which wouldn't be supported and could break dependencies elsewhere)
• 2938[20:14:06] <nodiscc> rek: what's your current nvidia driver version, package name, and where did you get it from?
• 2939[20:14:11] <Namll> if a network I am trying to connect to with EAP, would i just download the certficates from somewhere and place them in /etc/cert?
• 2940[20:14:20] <nodiscc> rek: what SlidingHorn said
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• 2943[20:14:42] <rek> 375.82 from repo
• 2944[20:14:55] <nodiscc> rek: for recent video drivers I'd make sure I am at least using the latest debian stable release
• 2945[20:14:58] <nodiscc> upgrade to jessie
• 2946[20:15:06] <greycat> um what
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• 2949[20:15:41] <rek> and just launched -t stretch-backports install nvidia-cuda-toolkit and i got that.... i had the 390.something from the website but here they told i can use stretch-backports to get cuda 9 and nvidia 390
• 2950[20:15:41] <nodiscc> then to stretch
• 2951[20:15:49] <depesz> nodiscc: installed. no change :(
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• 2953[20:15:59] <rek> i'm in stretch
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• 2956[20:16:13] <rek> what judd said it was ok
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• 2958[20:16:22] <annadane> is there a tentative date yet for 9.5?
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• 2961[20:16:32] <rek> ,checkbackports nvidia-driver nvidia-cuda-dev
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• 2963[20:16:40] <rek> but not toolkit though
• 2964[20:16:53] <rek> ,checkbackports nvidia-driver
• 2965[20:16:56] <jelly> rek: I don't think anyone said you could get cuda toolkit 9 installed from stretch-backports
• 2966[20:17:00] <greycat> stretch is the current stable release; jessie was the one before
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• 2969[20:17:06] <nodiscc> depesz: yeah well I'm waiting for the next stable too :) no luck
• 2970[20:17:12] <rek> ,checkbackports nvidia-cuda-dev
• 2971[20:17:18] <rek> look jelly
• 2972[20:17:21] <jelly> rek: I said you could try to backport it yourself
• 2973[20:17:28] <thescientist> nodiscc: i didnt know that but i just run that command and it made no difference (that i see)
• 2974[20:17:40] <petn-randall> annadane: When it's Ready™. Those will only be updated installers, anyway. If you have stretch-updates in your repo list (you should) it will be the same than installing from the new point release.
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• 2976[20:17:46] <rek> oh shi* souhm what can i do_?
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• 2978[20:17:51] <annadane> yeah, i get it, just a general question
• 2979[20:17:53] <jelly> rek: and I pointed to instructions to do that, /msg dpkg simple sid backport
• 2980[20:18:08] <annadane> just that i thought they had announced 9.5 a while ago, i wasn't sure how reliable my memory was
• 2981[20:18:25] <jelly> rek: type this in your irc client: /msg dpkg ssb
• 2982[20:18:35] <jelly> rek: you should get a private message from "dpkg" bot in return
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• 2984[20:18:46] <rek> is judd tired?
• 2985[20:18:48] <jelly> (in a different tab or window)
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• 2987[20:18:51] <rek> i messaged him
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• 3005[20:19:21] <rek> ssb doesn't work too
• 3006[20:19:23] <jelly> rek: judd's "checkbackport" tests if it's possible to try making your own local backport at all
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• 3011[20:19:28] <rek> ah ok
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• 3024[20:20:24] <jelly> judd's "version" tells if there's a ready-made backport (more precisely, it shows all the available versions for a package in all the current debian branches)
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• 3026[20:20:31] <jelly> !ssb
• 3027[20:20:31] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
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• 3031[20:20:47] <jelly> rek: you didn't get that in a PM
• 3032[20:20:48] <jelly> ?
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• 3034[20:20:52] <rek> yeah
• 3035[20:20:55] <rek> sounds hard
• 3036[20:20:56] <nodiscc> thescientist: then I don't know. If you're just working with KML/KMZ it should be possible to import/export to/from googleearth/marble as I said. Or you could try on a debian stable box
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• 3042[20:22:10] <jelly> if it's too hard I bet someone in here would be willing to do it instead of you, for a price
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• 3047[20:25:24] <nodiscc> interesting how much would you charge for backporting a package
• 3048[20:26:09] <thescientist> nodiscc: thanks. I will try the stable option. Once again thank you.
• 3049[20:26:23] <nodiscc> thescientist: np good luck
• 3050[20:26:52] <jelly> nodiscc: LTS people do their thing at around 85eur/hr
• 3051[20:27:15] <jelly> me, I'm more expensive personally :->
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• 3053[20:27:47] <tw> yeah, subcontracted technology or engineering work for less than 120 usd/hr equivalent is a bargain.
• 3054[20:27:51] <nodiscc> okay :) good to know
• 3055[20:28:31] <rek> ERROR: No supported gcc/g++ host compiler found, but clang-3.8 is available i installed gcc5 built it manually bootstrapped and put a link with ln now what can i do?
• 3056[20:28:44] <rek> gcc5 is what is needed
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• 3058[20:29:03] <jelly> !ask
• 3059[20:29:03] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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• 3061[20:29:19] <jelly> rek: ^
• 3062[20:29:37] <jelly> if actual output is longer than 2-3 lines, do it in a pastebin
• 3063[20:29:39] <jelly> !paste
• 3064[20:29:39] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this channel. Instead, use: replaced-url
• 3065[20:29:52] <nodiscc> so why does fail2ban.service report as running when in fact fail2ban-client reload has failed?
• 3066[20:29:52] <rek> slowdown i already know hehe
• 3067[20:30:00] <dragon_> hey
• 3068[20:30:13] <rek> should i add the built gcc5 in the path?
• 3069[20:30:15] <dragon_> hiiiii
• 3070[20:30:17] <dragon_> seeeeeex
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• 3073[20:30:44] <dragon_> seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
• 3074[20:30:44] <jelly> dragon_: wrong channel for chat. Try ##chat maybe and try to use complete sentences!
• 3075[20:30:45] <annadane> no, just debian, sadly
• 3076[20:30:59] <dragon_> ssssssssssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
• 3077[20:31:04] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jelly
• 3078[20:31:04] *** jelly sets mode: +q *!*@185.110.105.134
• 3079[20:31:05] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o jelly
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• 3081[20:31:40] <jelly> that's a bad dragon
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• 3096[20:39:56] <jhutchin1_wk> nodiscc: Because it's created a pid file but has failed without removing it.
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• 3101[20:41:59] <rek> hey guys g++ -v tells me it's gcc6 then i must link it alsto to my gcc installation...
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• 3105[20:43:16] <nodiscc> jhutchin1_wk: thank you I'll look into that. I think it should return non-zero when there are errors. fail2ban bug or debian systemd service file bug
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• 3107[20:44:03] <jhutchins_wk> nodiscc: I would file it with Debian, let the devs push it upstream if needed.
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• 3111[20:45:49] <nodiscc> will do
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• 3117[20:50:10] <depesz> got another datapoint - if I turn off tv, and then turn it back on - I get screen back. and even hardware support for video.
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• 3121[20:50:18] <depesz> any idea why i need to power cycle monitor *after* reboot?
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• 3123[20:50:28] <depesz> and also i have to re-start sddm afterwards
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• 3126[20:51:36] <annadane> sorry, this was kind of answered before but what has to happen for intel-microcode to be in stable as opposed to backports?
• 3127[20:52:16] <greycat> For most packages I would have said "probably a point-release", but with non-free I don't know.
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• 3132[20:55:22] <annadane> i think it's just testing to make sure it's robust enough
• 3133[20:55:39] <annadane> still, bit of a tradeoff, leaves people vulnerable if they're not aware of backports
• 3134[20:55:51] <annadane> (though spectre is harder to exploit)
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• 3136[20:55:57] <annadane> (than meltdown)
• 3137[20:56:02] <greycat> Pssht, like the newer one is going to make anyone *not* vulnerable.
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• 3140[20:57:26] <depesz> alternatively - how can I make sddm try forever to restart, and not give up when it has problems?
• 3141[20:57:44] <depesz> it is probably some kind of systemd configuration
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• 3145[21:02:22] <depesz> currently, after reboot, i have: replaced-url
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• 3151[21:02:40] <jelly> depesz: that would make it hard to be able to log in at the console, but I suspect you can easily change the unit to Restart
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• 3154[21:03:07] <depesz> jelly: i don't quite understand what you mean
• 3155[21:03:21] <annadane> greycat, maybe, it kind of depends on how easy you consider patches to be vs how hard they are to exploit
• 3156[21:03:32] <GNU\colossus> depesz, you can have systemd restart a service unit if it exits under certain (i. e. error) conditions
• 3157[21:03:36] <annadane> in the case of spectre
• 3158[21:03:52] <depesz> GNU\colossus: how can I do it/check how it is set now
• 3159[21:03:54] <depesz> ?
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• 3162[21:04:42] <GNU\colossus> to set that up, you can run `systemctl edit sddm.service`, and add "Restart=always" to the "[Service]" section
• 3163[21:04:53] <GNU\colossus> you maybe also want something like "RestartSec=10s"
• 3164[21:05:00] <GNU\colossus> to not make it attempt restarts every 100msec
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• 3166[21:05:03] <jelly> depesz: if sddm is restarting all the time and switching over to virtual console 7 every couple seconds, it's hard to log in at virtual console 1
• 3167[21:05:09] <depesz> how can I view current service settings?
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• 3169[21:05:18] <depesz> jelly: i can log via ssh
• 3170[21:05:23] <GNU\colossus> `systemctl show <servicename>` shows the properties of a running service unit
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• 3172[21:06:04] <depesz> ok. it shows: Restart=always and RestartUSec=1s
• 3173[21:06:10] <depesz> but it doesn't restart
• 3174[21:06:48] <GNU\colossus> depesz, can you paste the service's journal? `journalctl -n 50 -u sddm.service`
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• 3176[21:07:11] <depesz> -- No entries --
• 3177[21:07:29] <depesz> i guess it's a follow up with the problem with intel graphics in this box
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• 3179[21:07:37] <GNU\colossus> hrm. something's clearly amiss then.
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• 3182[21:07:54] <GNU\colossus> can you nopaste `systemctl cat sddm.service`?
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• 3186[21:08:19] <depesz> moment. rebooting
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• 3189[21:09:20] <depesz> GNU\colossus: replaced-url
• 3190[21:09:58] <depesz> it looks that graphics stop working because of some mode that console is setting, and this stops sddm from running. re-starting monitor fixes the problem, but then I have to start sddm manually :(
• 3191[21:10:19] <GNU\colossus> the journal for your unit is still empty?
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• 3198[21:11:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1552
• 3199[21:11:09] <depesz> May 10 21:08:28 bednuc systemd[1]: Started Simple Desktop Display Manager.
• 3200[21:11:14] <GNU\colossus> and do you have a service named "getty@tty7.service" active?
• 3201[21:11:17] <depesz> but this was before last reboot, if i see it correctly
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• 3208[21:11:48] <GNU\colossus> I'm not sure off the top of my head about the Conflicts property, but these seem like contradicting each other
• 3209[21:11:50] <depesz> getty@tty7.service loaded inactive dead Getty on tty7
• 3210[21:11:56] <GNU\colossus> hm ok
• 3211[21:12:10] <GNU\colossus> what happens when you manually try to start the sddm service?
• 3212[21:12:14] <depesz> actually - now it started. looks like it needed 2-3 minutes to start.
• 3213[21:12:19] <depesz> GNU\colossus: when i start manually it just works.
• 3214[21:12:28] <depesz> as i mentioned - it seems to be related to the intel kms issue.
• 3215[21:12:36] <GNU\colossus> then it's probably the tty7 After stanzas?
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• 3243[21:29:51] <btel> Hi Guys, I'm jumping from CentOS board to Debian, and have been googling on firewalld vs iptables, looks like iptables is primarily used on Debian , can anyone shed some light ? I'm used to of firewalld on CentOS7 and would prefer to use it on Debian also
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• 3249[21:31:51] <tw> btel: install it. package is named exactly that.
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• 3254[21:33:44] <btel> Thanks tw, But it seems default installation has iptables on debian , do I need to uninstall it first? If any cheat sheet pls point to me.
• 3255[21:33:44] <cmm11> btel: iirc firewalld is a front-end for iptables
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• 3258[21:34:04] <greycat> iptables is not *used* (configured) by default, so having it installed is irrelevant
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• 3264[21:37:08] <btel> So lets say I remove iptables (apt-get remove iptables), then install firewalld ...If firewalld is front end of iptables then it should re-install iptables as being dependency ?
• 3265[21:37:17] <greycat> ,depends firewalld
• 3266[21:37:18] <judd> Package firewalld in stretch/amd64 -- depends: dbus, gir1.2-glib-2.0, iptables, policykit-1, python3-dbus, python3-gi, python3-slip-dbus, init-system-helpers (>= 1.18~), python3:any (>= 3.3.2-2~).
• 3267[21:37:32] <greycat> installing firewalld will reinstall iptables for you, since that's a dependency
• 3268[21:37:43] <greycat> you could save some time by NOT removing iptables first
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• 3270[21:38:10] * kot finds this funny
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• 3273[21:39:00] <Eryn_1983_FL> /msg alis LIST offtopic
• 3274[21:39:10] <btel> got it ..thanks a lot guys!
• 3275[21:39:17] <babilen> btel: iptables/netfilter is the underlying mechanism that allows you to filter packages, there are many tools that do nothing else but configure them to your liking via a different interface
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• 3277[21:40:11] <btel> yup..right.
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• 3279[21:40:21] <kot> packets*
• 3280[21:41:09] <babilen> heh, yeah
• 3281[21:41:16] <babilen> s/packages/packets
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• 3283[21:41:20] <babilen> *sigh*
• 3284[21:41:23] <kot> ufw is particularly easy
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• 3286[21:41:44] <babilen> ferm is worth a look too
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• 3288[21:41:46] <kot> or gufw if you want a gui front end
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• 3291[21:43:27] <tijeretas__> Does iptables take up 3GB, or is there another issue with just leaving it there unconfigured? :)
• 3292[21:44:01] <at0m> iptables "Installed-Size: 1,580 kB"
• 3293[21:44:02] <greycat> stretch also has nftables, but I've never used it
• 3294[21:45:15] <kot> i guess we'll all have to learn nftables sooner or later though.
• 3295[21:45:56] <babilen> bpf :)
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• 3297[21:46:23] <babilen> replaced-url
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• 3304[21:47:25] <tw> I hesitant about running a bytecode interpreter as a packet filter, but it seems to work well enough.
• 3305[21:47:28] <tw> *I'm
• 3306[21:48:04] <babilen> replaced-url
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• 3308[21:48:22] <babilen> Either way .. I don't think that uninstalling iptables is warrented in this particular case
• 3309[21:48:25] <greycat> "to stop everyone from switching to OpenBSD and pf"?
• 3310[21:48:30] <babilen> heh
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• 3321[21:52:36] <tw> Oh, so instead of bytecode interpreting as in nftables, bpf is executing machine code instead.
• 3322[21:52:49] <tw> which is dynamically loaded and unloaded from userspace.
• 3323[21:53:03] <kot> bpf + ngrep ftw
• 3324[21:53:05] <tw> Same problem, except worse.
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• 3373[22:14:06] <hanetzer> hey. having a bit of issue locating the berkely db package on packages.debian.org; its called sys-libs/db in gentoo, does anyone have a more precise name for it?
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• 3375[22:14:48] <greycat> libdb-dev is one of them
• 3376[22:14:54] <greycat> ,info libdb-dev
• 3377[22:14:55] <judd> Package libdb-dev (libdevel, extra) in stretch/amd64: Berkeley Database Libraries [development]. Version: 5.3.1; Size: 2.3k; Installed: 8k
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• 3379[22:15:45] <hanetzer> are any of the 6.x versions packaged?
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• 3385[22:19:51] <greycat> ,v libdb6.0-dev
• 3386[22:19:53] <judd> No package named 'libdb6.0-dev' was found in amd64.
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• 3388[22:20:33] <greycat> ?? ... packages.debian.org gives me search results including this pacakge, but then if I click the package, it says "No such package."
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• 3390[22:20:42] <jhutchins_wk> hanetzer: libdb5.3
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• 3432[22:41:17] <rant> would anyone happen to know how to undo this absolutely retarded behavior of gtk scrollbars seeking to a location clicked rather than just paging up/dn like every scrollbar in the history of computing has done when you clicked on it?
• 3433[22:41:18] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o eir
• 3434[22:41:19] *** eir sets mode: -qo *!*@185.110.105.134 eir
• 3435[22:41:44] <annadane> yeah i'd also like to know that
• 3436[22:41:54] <greycat> rant: you missed the Athena widgets era, I see.
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• 3438[22:42:09] <rant> greycat: apparently :P
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• 3441[22:42:43] <greycat> replaced-url
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• 3443[22:43:05] <greycat> If you ever used xman or other programs from that era, that's how they behave.
• 3444[22:43:18] <rant> when stuff like this happens I feel like some bloody mad hatter has gone and replaced my OS with Windows or something
• 3445[22:43:31] <hanetzer> the un-os!
• 3446[22:44:18] <rant> actually I feel way more frustrated and stupified when I go to scroll down a damn dialog and it jumps to the end than I do when windows didnt know to copy the text I highlighted
• 3447[22:44:19] <greycat> I mean, yeah, that also sucks for everyone who has become used to the "normal behavior" of scrollbars from Windows and similar toolkits, but it's a thing.
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• 3452[22:45:16] <rant> most things are a thing.. doesnt make em a good thing :P
• 3453[22:45:26] <annadane> "siri, go down 3/4 of the way down the p- no, that's too far, a little bit m- no, that's also wrong, i mean just about where th- fuck it, i'll do it myself"
• 3454[22:45:31] <greycat> xman doesn't even let you specify the page to read as a command line argument :-/
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• 3460[22:47:25] <charking> Hello. Is there a way to make Unattended-Upgrade check for and apply updates on boot? I have a Debian VM which I boot and use for short periods of time every now and then. Its packages don't seem to get updated because it is not on long enough.
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• 3462[22:47:39] * kot remembers all those endearingly ugly x tools
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• 3464[22:48:15] <greycat> you could put an @reboot command in /etc/crontab, or put something in /etc/rc.local
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• 3466[22:48:33] <bites> or you could write a systemd unit.
• 3467[22:48:52] <greycat> so much overkill
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• 3469[22:49:26] <mutante> you copy an example one and just change the Exec line
• 3470[22:49:27] <greycat> But sure, that's also a correct answer.
• 3471[22:49:34] <jhutchins_wk> ...or you could just remember to update it before you shut down.
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• 3476[22:51:56] <charking> Thanks. I'm not sure how to actually invoke unattended-upgrade though. It seems like it's normally invoked as part of the /etc/cron.daily/apt script.
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• 3478[22:52:10] <charking> I'll try to figure it out
• 3479[22:52:43] <bites> you just run the binary.
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• 3481[22:53:39] <tw> There's always Unattended-Upgrade::InstallOnShutdown
• 3482[22:54:23] <charking> tw: I wasn't sure that checked for updates on shutdown? If it checks, then that would work! I'll look
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• 3484[22:54:58] <tw> 90-something percent sure it does.
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• 3496[22:59:39] <charking> tw: From /usr/share/unattended-upgrades/unattended-upgrade-shutdown it looks like it does indeed
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• 3500[23:00:22] <charking> tw: if Unattended-Upgrade::InstallOnShutdown: p = subprocess.Popen(["unattended-upgrade"] ...)
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• 3505[23:01:06] <charking> unless the environment variables change unattended-upgrades behavior. hmm
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