56[00:18:41] *** Quits: KOOL_DUDE (~KOOL_DUDE@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
57[00:19:43] <annadane> i can't believe it's not
butter
58[00:19:53] <VexToR> the colloquial term "BUSTER"
has some distasteful associations, in the future one should
investigate the nomenclature more thoroughly before committing
changes like that, I thought there was a policy of inclusion now
61[00:21:00] <VexToR> I hands down refuse to use APACHE, as I
am Native American, I assume many people were offended by this
BUSTER thing in the same way
62[00:21:09] *** Quits: user217217 (~user21721@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
63[00:21:24] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o greycat
64[00:21:52] <Lope> sounds like you want to be offended and
enjoy it.
65[00:22:12] <Lope> if I make a piece of software and call it
human will you be offended by that too?
76[00:23:36] <Jaami> WoC: there was advanced setting in rufus
where i enabled USB. advanced settings text was grayed out that is
why i ignored it. i am now ready to reboot. hope it will replace
windows on C with debian.
77[00:23:45] *** greycat sets mode: -o greycat
78[00:23:54] <Lope> well, if you think about it, if I make some
software and name it "human" I'm either an
anti-human, or I'm excluding the extra terrestrials and other
mammals etc.
92[00:26:08] <greycat> And, for the record, buster is named for
a character from one of the Toy Story movies.
93[00:26:49] <WoC> And the "native americans" are
actually from asia, there are no natives in the Americas, neither
north nor south
94[00:27:17] <Lope> I saw a funny definition of conservative vs
liberal. Conservative: "I'm a vegetarian". Liberal
"You should become a vegetarian." hahaha
96[00:28:04] <annadane> i would be at least a little
sympathetic if someone did in fact find apache offensive but that
person clearly isn't serious and is trolling based on the
language used
97[00:28:17] <WoC> Aye
98[00:28:21] <annadane> i'd think it's a bit dumb to
be offended but it isn't even a legitimate concern
99[00:28:26] <annadane> it's purely to troll
100[00:28:54] <WoC> Just looking to have a verbal fight... to
each their own... ;P
101[00:29:01] <Lope> Objectively I see nothing offensive about
Apache.
137[00:34:20] <dpkg> In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by
default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su
-l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at
all...). To approximate the previous behaviour, put
"ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" in /etc/login.defs. See
replaced-url
138[00:34:21] <Rozha> srry i dont know
139[00:34:22] <annadane> Rozha, become root by su -
140[00:34:23] <Rozha> )
141[00:34:28] <WoC> You seem to lack the PATH Rozha
142[00:34:29] <annadane> yeah, like greycat/dpkg posted
187[00:43:26] <annadane> apache itself probably has so many
features that if you don't know what you're looking for
it's probably fine to use it and if you're missing
something then try something else
188[00:43:35] <annadane> i don't know very much about this
kind of stuff in detail
189[00:43:57] <Lope> after being exposed to too much liberalism
I watch this to detox
replaced-url
190[00:44:09] <WoC> Not to mention, you said https which would
require a server certificate
191[00:44:12] <annadane> okay, let's not make this
politicial for no reason
253[00:54:45] <ratrace> I wonder if it really works as simple as
that, no hiccups...
254[00:54:51] <misteradler> does xinitrc count as a dm?
255[00:55:18] <scala_pigs> the Apaches Logo has a feather in it
256[00:55:20] *** Quits: rotaticus (~fnord@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
257[00:55:26] <scala_pigs> its clearly racist
258[00:55:32] <ratrace> misteradler: xinitrc is sourced by xinit
which is spawned by startx which must be run after you log in, so
technically not quite.
278[00:58:51] <Rozha> Lovepump it good it run for terminal it
doesnot goes sleep ?
279[00:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1539
280[00:59:32] <Rozha> what to best for debian to install apache
nginx ? apache and for email ?
281[00:59:38] <annadane> it would be lovely to have them all
organized in some sort of /usr/bin/startx/<list of xsessions you
have installed>
282[01:00:02] <misteradler> or just simply use sddm
283[01:00:13] <annadane> depends, Rozha, there's different
email solutions; a very simple MTA is dma
284[01:00:15] <annadane> !dma
285[01:00:16] <dpkg> [dma] (Direct Memory Access) PCs have DMA
channels that allow certain devices to directly access memory in
order to speed up the process.
replaced-url
288[01:00:25] <dpkg> The DragonFly Mail Agent (DMA) is a small
mail transport agent designed for home and office use; it does not
listen for incoming connections. Packaged for Debian as dma, not
part of the Debian 7 "Wheezy" release.
replaced-url
289[01:00:30] <ratrace> Rozha: my recommendation, nginx unless
you need Apache specific functionality like per-directory .htaccess,
or something else. email? postfix for smtp, dovecot for imap/pop3.
290[01:00:42] <Rozha> @i:~# apt-get irssi
291[01:00:42] <Rozha> E: Invalid operation irssi
292[01:00:46] <ratrace> dma is not an MTA
293[01:00:49] <Rozha> ls
294[01:01:07] <annadane> it's apt-get install
295[01:01:10] <annadane> apt-get install irssi
296[01:01:16] <annadane> anyway, listen to ratrace
311[01:05:04] <annadane> "my recommendation, nginx unless
you need Apache specific functionality like per-directory .htaccess,
or something else. email? postfix for smtp, dovecot for
imap/pop3."
312[01:05:06] <ratrace> well that was just a recommendation.
315[01:05:24] <dpkg> The DragonFly Mail Agent (DMA) is a small
nullmailer designed for home and office use; it does not listen for
incoming connections. Packaged for Debian as dma, not part of the
Debian 7 "Wheezy" release.
replaced-url
330[01:08:02] *** Quits: plutes (~plutes@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
331[01:08:30] <ratrace> well then if we're on the subject
of the factoid, that "designed for home and office use" is
grating my nerves a bit :) it's a nullmailer, suitable for any
use case where a system needs to send email and there's an
upstream MTA/smarthost available. it can be used quite well in
server farms as well, so "home and office use" really
means nothing.
341[01:09:58] * ratrace wonders how come nobody vandalized them yet :)
342[01:09:58] <ZedHeadTed|> ratrace: Thanks. I was wondering
what "nullmailer" and "home and office" had to
do w/ eachother.
343[01:10:34] <joepublic> in the distant past, except for home
and home-office, everyone ran their own mailer and didn't get
blackholed into spam folders
352[01:11:36] <dpkg> The DragonFly Mail Agent (DMA) is a small
nullmailer; suitable for cases where a system needs to send email
and there's an upstream MTA/smarthost available. It does not
listen for incoming connections. Packaged for Debian as dma.
replaced-url
355[01:11:58] <ZedHeadTed|> ZedHeadTed|: Wish I could remember
those days. Now you basically have to go with a big company for
email or none of your family members will get anything from you.
356[01:12:02] <joepublic> ah, so breathtaking it makes one cry
357[01:12:33] <annadane> i like how we all have these lacking
areas of knowledge :P i'm borderline useless, yet know how to
edit dpkg factoids
358[01:12:35] <Rozha> need some one help
359[01:12:35] <Rozha> checking for APR... no
360[01:12:35] <Rozha> configure: error: APR not found. Please
read the documentation.
361[01:12:35] <Rozha> root@i:~/httpd-2.4.43#
362[01:12:53] <medard> ZedHeadTed|, how come?
363[01:12:54] <ratrace> ZedHeadTed|: two years ago I'd
vehemently disagree citing "I've been running an MTA for
many years... blah blah blah". But in 2020 I'll agree with
you instead, having seen GMail eat up or junk mail from us
regularly, we never spam.
364[01:13:15] <ratrace> regularly in the past year or two.
365[01:13:16] <ZedHeadTed|> annadane: As Peter Griffin once
said, "There are gaps in my knowledge, Lois."
366[01:13:38] <annadane> watchers of family guy actively lose IQ
point so that makes sense
367[01:13:43] <medard> what's with this btw? I in our
company we sometimes have to ask microsoft to whitelist some of our
contractors mail domains
368[01:13:43] <ratrace> Rozha: are you compiling something?
386[01:16:43] <ratrace> Rozha: WHY are you compiling Apache?
387[01:16:44] <medard> Are their blacklists public?
388[01:16:50] <Pegasus_RPG> Hello. I have a Debian system that
provides PXE booting services for other network hosts, which I can
use to boot them into Rescue mode. Now this system is in need of
rescuing (it mysteriously hangs with no explanation in the syslog)
so I'm wondering if I can put the Debian netinaller onto an LVM
logical volume and boot to it?
389[01:16:50] <joepublic> if you don't already have a
clearly articulable reason to be compiling apache, probably best not
to compile it, but rather install the binary.
390[01:16:51] <ratrace> medard: nope
391[01:16:56] <ZedHeadTed|> The majority of Internet traffic is
going to the same 5-10 companies.
396[01:17:28] <ratrace> if you want apache. otherwise "apt
install nginx"
397[01:17:51] <annadane> google pisses me off because
they're the ultimate "we will do whatever we want and take
no responsibility and we are impossible to contact for any feedback
that you can give to any of our 927 unethical practices"
398[01:17:57] <medard> so nullmailer from my own domain is
prorably useless because most of my friend who use gmail won't
get it?
400[01:18:12] <ratrace> medard: funny thing I've noticed
with GMail is that sometimes mail just disappears. it accepts from
US, but the recipient swears it's not anywhere, not in the
inbox, not in the Junk folder, nowehere.
401[01:18:15] <Rozha> ratrace and if i want for any user
./hhtp://replaced-url
409[01:19:06] <medard> i never cared to investigate but is there
a way to trace emails sent/received from/to gmail?
410[01:19:07] <annadane> "we take your feedback very
seriously" feels like "yeah, we say this, but really the
corporate direction has already been decided in advance"
411[01:19:17] <ratrace> annadane: it was actually. Google's
moto was "Do no Evil" until they removed it from their...
list of motos. :)
412[01:19:30] <Rozha> debian start systemctl ??
413[01:19:36] <Rozha> or other command ?
414[01:19:45] <ratrace> systemctl
415[01:19:50] <annadane> Rozha, general piece of advice, stop
rushing. slow down, figure out what you want to do
416[01:19:57] <joepublic> taking feedback seriously doesn't
mean you want to follow it; they might take it seriously to evaluate
how well people are lying down for world conquest. or many other
possible meanings.
419[01:21:17] <annadane> joepublic, yeah really. there has to be
real world consequences for saying certain things
420[01:21:24] <annadane> and there never is
421[01:21:40] <Rozha> annadane from router port 80 open how to
open from debian
422[01:21:41] <somiaj> this does seem more appropriate for
#debian-offtopic
423[01:21:49] <joepublic> well, there only will be if the real
world imposes said consequences, instead of trading freedom and
privacy for immediate convenience. We're sunk.
425[01:21:57] <tds> Rozha: you want to look at mod_userdir -
replaced-url
426[01:21:58] <joepublic> point taken.
427[01:22:37] <sponix> annadane: the Politicians and big
corporations just set such a bad example of "say anything and
get away with it" it is contagious
428[01:22:41] <ratrace> medard: btw, you can use a nullmailer
with GMail as upstream
434[01:23:32] <Rozha> annadane mabe to unlock all ports ?
435[01:23:52] <ratrace> Rozha: consult your router's
documentation . by default, there's no packet filtering on
Debian unless you configured it yourself.
436[01:24:16] <ratrace> (I did assume you wanted to port forward
/ DNAT from WAN to LAN)
489[01:37:09] <Lope> ratrace, ZedHeadTed| I've been running
my own mailserver for 5 years. and I've also setup a
transactional email address with mailgun. for my own mailserver, the
first time I emailed foo@live.com microsoft asked me to fill out a
manual application form to have my mailserver IP whitelisted because
they said they blacklist all IPs by default.
490[01:37:20] <joepublic> I dunno, this was not recently
501[01:38:45] <Lope> ratrace, ZedHeadTed|: on my own mailserver
I was a bit of a DNS noob at the time and made some mistakes, which
caused some of my mail to go into spam folders. But in both cases
for my own mailserver as well as a mailgun address, I improved my
rating with google by sending emails to all my friends who had gmail
addresses, asked them to add the email to their contact list and
star it, before deleting it. It seemed to help.
502[01:38:57] <ratrace> been using roundcube for several years
now. But I hear there's a new contender, MailPile
503[01:39:15] <Lope> I setup a new mailserver a few months ago.
I've not had any issues with being regarded as spam.
504[01:39:25] <ratrace> Lope: we automatically assign score 6.0
to all mail from Mailgun on our MTAs :)
522[01:43:00] <Rozha> ratrace and wome config for all users ?
523[01:43:04] <Lope> ratrace, do you actually use roundcube?
524[01:43:13] <ratrace> though personally I install roundcube
straight from upstream. they have concept of LTS and I manage to get
updates way faster that way.
525[01:43:18] <ratrace> Lope: yes, for years now.
526[01:43:19] <Lope> ratrace, I've always tended to use
thunderbird or android mail clients.
528[01:43:34] <ratrace> Rozha: please use google translate, I
have no idea what you just said.
529[01:43:42] <Lope> I prefer the speed of having my mail
locally
530[01:43:46] <joepublic> thunderbird and random.apk are hardly
going to provide webmail for clients.
531[01:44:08] <ratrace> Lope: well we have a webmail for
hundreds of our users, and I'm using it too.
532[01:45:07] <Lope> ratrace, do you provide a hosting service?
533[01:45:34] <ratrace> Lope: the company I work for, we provide
turnkey web solutions, hosting is part of it, but it's managed.
you can't get direct access to it as a client.
535[01:46:02] <Lope> ratrace, my mailserver is mymail.myfoo.com
but when I have emails and domains like qux@bar.com the email
clients never get the mailserver incoming and outcoming hostname
right.
536[01:46:06] <Lope> I have to manually specify it
537[01:46:17] <Lope> What's needed to make that work?
543[01:46:55] <ratrace> Lope: it never worked in my experience.
all clients are trying the email domain, some will attempt smtp. or
imap. prefix
544[01:47:28] <Lope> ratrace, so do you send them instructions
to put in the incoming and outgoing addresses manually?
545[01:47:35] <Lope> I'm surprised it's not handled by
DNS.
546[01:47:54] <ratrace> there's some autoconfig way via
http.... but..... it's a total mess that never worked
correctly. what we do, we have a PDF instructions with pretty
pictures on how to set it up, because you don't access your
domain dot com, you access our MTA's hostname. because TLS
certs and postfix couldn't do SNI unutil recently.
547[01:48:22] *** Quits: jeeves (~jeeves@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
548[01:48:26] <Lope> ratrace, exactly, they all try the email
domain. And the problem with that is you can't have
mymailserver.foo.com have a certificate for bar.com
549[01:48:40] <Lope> so it's an unworkable scenario to
support what mail clients attempt.
550[01:49:00] <tharkun> Good $DAY I have some doubts regarding
the html protocol and SOP and CORS "policies" I know this
is not the place to ask but can someone redirect me to the
appropiate channel please.
551[01:49:02] <ratrace> Lope: well these days Postfix can do
SNI, so I'll probably be reconfiguring our mail service to
allow the clients to use their domains to connect.
569[01:52:34] <squirrel> still kicking thank you very much
570[01:52:36] <ratrace> Lope: for Dovecot ::
replaced-url
571[01:52:36] <tharkun> In a nutshell the browser world response
to insecure javascript
572[01:52:53] <ratrace> squirrel: bwahahaha, k :) meant
squirrelmail ;)
573[01:52:56] <Lope> I setup an email address for my father. I
sent him his email addr, password. Told him to click manual setup
and set the incoming and outgoing hostname. He just kept complaining
bitterly that it didn't work. Eventually with screenshots I
drew on his screenshots.
581[01:54:00] <ratrace> Lope: For us the biggest problem is not
server hostname. It's enforced TLS. the stupid client programs
apparently aren't defaulting to it and the users have no idea
what that even means
582[01:54:08] <tharkun> Lope: There is a way to automagically
set up an email client. I have seen it done on some domains. I
haven't figured out how to do it.
583[01:54:21] *** Quits: ledeni (~ledeni@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
584[01:54:21] <tharkun> ratrace: port587
585[01:54:25] <Lope> "I'll just use my one password
everywhere" "okay okay, I've got one secure password
now, and then one insecure password"
586[01:54:40] <ratrace> in addition, various outlooks have
"Secure Password Authentication (SPA)" enabled by default
which is totally some microsoft specific extension
587[01:55:00] <Lope> tharkun, sogo is supposed to do it I think.
I tried an auto setup thing for it. But it didn't work.
588[01:55:12] <ratrace> tharkun: what about port 587? btw,
STARTTLS should not be used. dedicated wrapped TLS port 465 should.
589[01:55:24] * annadane feels very stupid
590[01:55:34] <Lope> ratrace, do you mean instead of STARTTLS?
591[01:55:48] <ratrace> Lope: yes. read up RFC 8314
592[01:55:57] <Lope> ah, I've been using STARTTLS, Is it
shit?
593[01:56:01] <tharkun> ratrace: ssmtp I believe is deprecated.
I will not quarel with you about it.
594[01:56:18] <ratrace> Lope: it's plaintext until the
client upgrades to TLS via STARTTLS... .so go figure. it's
plaintext.
595[01:56:27] <Rozha> ratrace i try install web mail and this
gose no msql /
601[01:57:12] <ratrace> Lope: initial connection and anything up
until "STARTTLS" is issued. the client may even attempt
sending user+pass and the server (if properly configured) will
reject it, but the client already sent it.
604[01:57:45] <ratrace> Lope: it's just stupid. plaintext
until you upgrade to TLS... o'rly. 465 is better as it's
dedicated TLS port. you ned 4-way handshake and there's no
plaintext oopsie-I-forgot-starttls
605[01:58:04] <Lope> ratrace, do you know offhand what settings
are needed to select TLS?
606[01:58:12] *** Quits: alina (~irc@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
612[01:59:09] <Lope> ratrace, I've tried using TLS with my
mailserver and it didn't work. So I stuck with starttls, and
just assumed it would be good cos it has TLS in the name haha.
613[01:59:45] <Lope> someone needs to make a new email protocol
that uses SSH.
614[01:59:46] <Rozha> ratrace i try install web mail and that
you recomend this gose no msql /
615[01:59:54] <Lope> that would be so much better.
623[02:01:29] <ratrace> Lope: well you need the cert, the key,
the ciphers, protocols (eg. it still defaults to TLSv1.0+), and
disable plaintext auth (aka refuse auth if set over unencrypted
connection)
625[02:01:45] <ratrace> that's the thing I mentioned
before. the server might reject auth, but the client has already
commited the crime.
626[02:01:57] <Lope> ratrace, haha, i used iredmail and assumed
it would setup sane options.
627[02:02:08] <Lope> gotcha
628[02:03:01] <ratrace> Rozha: if I'm understanding what
you're saying (and PLEASE USE GOOGLE TRANSLATE!) you need to
install MySQL. which is MariaDB these days, so I suppose you need to
apt install mariadb-server-10.3
629[02:03:16] <Rozha> ratrace https doesn`t work
630[02:03:29] <ratrace> Rozha: yes you need to set up a
certificate...
631[02:03:32] <Lope> ratrace, how does this look?
replaced-url
642[02:05:11] <ratrace> Rozha: buy it or use a letsencrypt
client. certbot if I'm not mistaken is a kitchen-sink suite
these days. personally I prefer dehydrated. lightweight and simple
but not for novices.
646[02:06:14] <Lope> Rozha, you can use a custom domain with
protonmail if you want ultra easy.
647[02:06:21] <ratrace> Lope: nah it also has all the options to
enable ssl, set up certs etc... it has a bit more, as it separates
smtp from smtpd, and you need to enable services via master.cf for
dedicated ports (aka smtps and submissions .. thta's not
pluraral, that's "s" for "secrue")
649[02:06:26] <joepublic> you say "go go gadget
certbot" and it asks you a single-digit number of questions and
says "all done" and keeps up with it for you. All computer
software should take inspiration from this.
651[02:07:17] <ratrace> joepublic: for novices yes, but once the
novices graduate, it's just a megaton of highly opinionated
bloatware.
652[02:07:57] <ratrace> dehydrated is a SINGLE shellscript that
does all the work you need, and you write a simple hook.sh for
various stages of operation, to interact with your httpd or dns, to
install certs, to report errors. 'n stuff.
653[02:07:59] <Gerowen> joepublic: I installed certbot on my
Apache/Nextcloud server because there were a handful of apps that
didn't like connecting with my self-signed certificate. Plus
the fact that it auto-renews and gets fresh certs every 3 months
means I don't have to babysit.
654[02:08:02] <joepublic> i find that the older I get, the more
I mentally transpose that into "one less thing to worry
about" - even if they don't do it exactly as I would,
it's being done, strike one thing off my list
658[02:09:38] <ratrace> and I find the older I get I'm way
more grumpier and prefer simplicity and control, over opinionated
bloatware written by a PFY hipster who just learned electron two
days before their first release of CoolSoftware-ng. Now.... get off
my lawn :)
659[02:10:11] <joepublic> upon consideration, I think that you
should either use dehydrated, or manually procure and install the
keyus
662[02:11:00] <ratrace> well I did and do recommend certbot for
novices. :) just stating my non-novice preference.
663[02:11:09] <tds> few lines of apache config and it's
magically obtained certs
664[02:11:44] <annadane> i have a very stupid question, if i
accidentally mark something as manually installed <apt install
foo when foo is already installed> is it a good idea to set it to
automatic again, or does it not matter... i'm just thinking in
terms of autoremove lists
665[02:11:47] <ratrace> tds: in hook.sh?
666[02:12:15] <ratrace> annadane: I'd prefer to revert it
back to automatic. My OCD would kill me if it found out I allowed
unneeded packages to remain installed.
667[02:12:33] <tds> ratrace: no, it's a full acme client of
its own
668[02:12:41] <ratrace> oh, I see
669[02:12:59] <annadane> yeah i'm OCD about it too i just
wondered if it was like, a common thing people did
670[02:13:21] <annadane> but yeah i do want the proper stuff
marked as manual so it gets taken out with autoremove
671[02:13:26] <annadane> i guess i could've answered my own
questio
685[02:14:59] *** Quits: Tobbi__ (~Tobbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
686[02:15:37] <ratrace> tds: that limits it to apache only? can
you use that to dispatch the same certs to other services that are
using the same domain names?
687[02:15:38] <sponix2ipfw> tds: apache2 from backports works
well for me
688[02:15:39] <Lope> ratrace, what about port 993?
689[02:15:41] <annadane> "don't warn me when i
apt-mark manual foo but do warn me when i type apt install foo
because if i'm typing apt install foo 99.9999% of the time
i'm making a mistake and trying to install something i already
have installed, not trying to mark it as manual"
690[02:16:05] <ratrace> Lope: yes, that's for imap. and 995
if you allow pop3
691[02:16:29] <sponix2ipfw> annadane: I agree. That is common
for me also
692[02:16:33] <Lope> ratrace, but you suggested using port 465?
693[02:16:34] <ratrace> ugh... imaps and pop3s respectively
694[02:16:41] <ratrace> Lope: yes for Postfix and submission
701[02:18:15] <Jaami> debian non-free net and non-free dvd both
failed. every time setup when start it shows many mount errors and
then finally go for cd-rom check and never passed through that
point. what shoul i do next?
702[02:18:31] <tds> though I still quite like dehydrated as a
standalone acme client, for other services or whatever - but the
simplicity of just being able to magically enable tls for a vhost is
great with mod_md
703[02:18:43] <Lope> ratrace, I've got
"ssl_min_protocol = TLSv1.2" but how do I prevent 1.3?
704[02:18:47] <ratrace> Jaami: did you verify the ISO you
downloaded has the correct checksum?
705[02:19:02] <ratrace> Lope: why would you want that?
710[02:19:44] <ratrace> Lope: maybe you were thinking of SSLv3
711[02:19:48] <Lope> ah, I was getting mixed up yeah.
712[02:20:06] <annadane> i wonder if i file a wishlist bug
against apt whether that will happen for debian 11
713[02:20:14] <annadane> may as well try
714[02:20:20] <ratrace> the order is SSLv1 < SSLv2 < SSLv3
< TLS1.0 < TLS1.1 < TLS1.2 < TLS1.3
715[02:20:56] <ratrace> TLSv1.2 should be minimum, unless (like
me) you need to support Outlook 2010.......
716[02:21:08] <ratrace> (then you need TLSv1.0 as minimum)
717[02:21:32] <Lope> ratrace, then authentication method should
be "normal password" ?
718[02:22:12] <ratrace> yes. plaintext over TLS. there's
things like challenge-response, microsoft's LOGIN, cram* etc...
but with TLS you don't need any of those
724[02:23:23] <ratrace> Lope: btw, there's #postfix and
#dovecot here on Freenode, for dedicated support, so #debian
isn't cluttered with such highly specific topics
725[02:23:42] <tds> and ##email for something a bit more generic
if you need it :)
739[02:35:08] <lwp> Jaami, let's talk about how you wrote
the .iso onto your USB again. If you are using rufus, you MUST use
the "DD" mode
740[02:37:55] <doubletwist> In buster, I see the
'logrotate.service' daemon is enabled but
'dead'. It seems like it's run by systemd timer
instead of cron now, so is that the expected state for this service?
742[02:38:47] <tds> yes (unless logrotate is actively running)
743[02:39:15] <tds> if you `systemctl list-timers` you'll
see when it will next run
744[02:39:23] <doubletwist> which should only be sporadically
and for a short period of time I assume? I ask because I'm
trying to figure out how to tell Saltstack to manage the service
749[02:40:16] <tds> what are you trying to manage exactly?
you'll want to ensure the timer is enabled and started, but
that should be the default state when the package is installed
752[02:41:37] <doubletwist> Well I'm modifying an existing
formula which historically has managed logrotate on RedHat based
systems, which tells the system to have a service enabled and
running. In RedHat it's the 'crond' service that
it's looking for. I told it to manage 'logrotate'
instead but of course it (by default) tries to
753[02:41:52] <doubletwist> start the service, which then goes
dead practically immediately, so it shows up as a failure
754[02:41:56] <doubletwist> Comment: Service logrotate is
already enabled, and is dead
772[02:46:49] <doubletwist> Looks like RedHat systems might
start using it soon too. Not sure if it's there in EL8 (I
don't have any) but I guess i'll burn that bridge when I
get there. :)
827[03:17:22] <Gerowen> I'm guessing it upgraded your
installed version then? I'm not certain, but you might try
doing apt clean to delete the cached copy of the deb you installed,
if it's cached, followed by an apt reinstall packagename
938[04:44:03] <themill> If 60k of disk space is a problem for
you, then don't use a binary distribution like Debian.
939[04:44:59] <BloatHunter> At best its bloat, at worst its a
security concern. "Therefore in October 2015, the 1394 Trade
Association board of directors voted to close official
operations[...]"
948[04:48:13] <themill> Considering that there are still plenty
of people out there with 1394 cameras that work just fine, I doubt
anyone is going to be interested in removing working software from
under them
969[04:53:32] <usr01234321eq111> a user told me a days ago that
i can run x64 on x32, you know something about it? I mean, it's
possible, but if it runs, it won't be the same (as far i know)
970[04:53:37] <BloatHunter> I see adapters and custom built one
offs that wouldn't even apply in this case (gstreamer)
1096[06:35:38] <dadinn> I have a question about mkfs.ext4... Does
anyone know what the -j option supposed to do? the manpage says it
create a filesystem with ext3 journal... can't find anything on
the internets about what this means
1105[06:39:12] <jim> I wonder if the journal format between ext3
and ext4 didn't change?
1106[06:39:20] <jm_> all mkfs.ext* man pages point to the same
file, it appears no-one changed this to say ext4
1107[06:41:00] <dadinn> it is supposed to format a boot
partition, and I vaguely remember I have copied this code because
somehow it might disable journaling... which i don't think it
does
1108[06:41:20] <BloatHunter> When is debian getting f2fs option
by default
1111[06:42:09] <jim> jm_, yep, no doubt... even mkfs.ext2 seems
to have -j and -J, which say -j makes an ext3 journal
1112[06:42:33] <dadinn> jim: the manpage definitely says Create
the filesystem with an ext3 journal. If the -J option is not
specified, the default journal parameters will be used to create an
appropriately sized journal (given the size of the filesystem)
stored within the filesystem. Note that you must be using a kernel
which has ext3 support in order to actually make use of the journal.
1194[07:30:31] <annadane> BloatHunter, try #debian-next on
irc.oftc.net
1195[07:32:35] <bt40> I want to install debian on my smartphone
(debian-arm). Not side by side, clean install. is it possible? If
only touch-display and network work, it will be fine for me.
1225[07:45:13] <themill> does
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libGL.so.1.7.0 exist at present? What
package owns it (dpkg -S /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libGL.so.1.7.0)
1245[08:18:20] <laughingtiger> I have a strange problem, on
windows when I play 1080p videos in full screen mode, there's a
line on the right side of the screen, the color on the two sides of
the line is different. on debian 10 same video, same machine but no
such a problem. I'm just trying to look for an answer here so
pls don't feel be annoyed because I couldn't find any
elsewhere.
1251[08:19:26] <laughingtiger> a vertical line. upgrad video card
driver didn't solve it.
1252[08:21:03] <laughingtiger> if you say it's video's
problem because some 2160p video I don't remember have this
problem, why on debian it's ok to play without this problem?
1267[08:27:18] <kingsley> laughingtiger: So, is my understanding
correct that the same 1080p video, hardware and full screen mode
renders a line of the right side of your screen on Windows, but not
on Debian 10?
1268[08:27:46] <laughingtiger> kingsley, yes it is the case.
1270[08:28:28] <kingsley> laughingtiger: OK, thank you for
clarifying. What do you want?
1271[08:28:43] <laughingtiger> even with the same mpv player. I
wonder if it's the windows version's mpv's problem.
1272[08:28:46] *** Quits: soft_cement (uid323143@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
1273[08:29:43] <laughingtiger> kingsley, lol, I'm just
desperate to find a solution to this problem, since I couldn't
find any, not even a similar case like mine on google or bing.
1274[08:30:08] <laughingtiger> but I've tried some other
players, all showed the same result.
1275[08:30:53] <kingsley> laughingtiger: So, is my
underderstanding correct that you want to watch the 1080p video
Windows without the extra line on the right side of your screen?
1276[08:31:32] <laughingtiger> kingsley, yes, but are you kidding
me?
1277[08:31:43] *** Quits: nt80 (~nt80@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1278[08:32:02] <kingsley> laughingtiger: OK, no. Thank you for
clarifying.
1283[08:35:15] <kingsley> 1.) Using a search engine like
Google's or DuckDuckGo's to look for web pages containing
windows, bug, vertical line video and the name of your video card?
1284[08:35:29] <kingsley> 2.) Asking in ##windows?
1286[08:36:42] <kingsley> 3.) Asking in an IRC channel for the
company that made your video card? (I suppose there may be channels
with names like "nvidia" and "amd".)
1287[08:36:48] <laughingtiger> kingsley, let me try your No.1
advice. I just found out there's a ##windows channel and
it's not helping.
1298[08:47:19] <Haohmaru> it might help to see a screenshot of
the vertical line
1299[08:47:40] <laughingtiger> kingsley, let me check it.
1300[08:48:26] <Haohmaru> iirc, mpv should have tons of options
for the decoding, and displaying of the videos.. btw
1301[08:48:38] <laughingtiger> Haohmaru, oh right you reminded me
that when the video is paused, the line disappeared, it only appears
when the video is playing.
1302[08:48:45] <Haohmaru> some combinations might not work
1310[08:52:44] <kingsley> laughingtiger: It seems to me that your
video card's name and/or model number may also improve the
specificity of your search results.
1312[08:53:23] <laughingtiger> and I also forgot to say the line
only appears after the video has been played for a while, it
didn't appear instantly when the video is played.
1313[08:54:07] <laughingtiger> kingsley, I see.
1314[08:54:50] <kingsley> laughingtiger: So maybe
"delay" is another key word to try.
1315[08:54:50] <Haohmaru> screenshot of the "line"
because i'm starting to suspect it's not really a line
1339[09:03:51] <Haohmaru> well, if nothing else - the solution
seems to be to ditch crapdows and use debian >:)
1340[09:05:10] <laughingtiger> Haohmaru, I can do that but some
software doesn't work at all on debian but work fine on
windows, they just don't care about their linux version.
1355[09:08:26] <BloatHunter> Expecting Debian to write those
features is like expecting your roof to keep your house standing.
1356[09:08:33] <kingsley> laughingtiger: Yeah, I used to worry
about Windows software on Debian too. My epiphany was realizing
linux supported more apps. That was in 1996. I've been using
Debian as my daily driver ever since. Please remember linux has
emulators that let you run multiple operating systems like qemu and
maybe wine.
1357[09:08:41] <laughingtiger> Haohmaru, now the video plays
fine, the line still hasn't appeared, I don't know what to
say. I'm not messing with you, I swear.
1358[09:08:58] <BloatHunter> Its probably playing off the intel
now
1359[09:09:13] <BloatHunter> Is bumblebee still a thing?
1372[09:16:21] *** Quits: badar (~Badar@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1373[09:16:44] <laughingtiger> Haohmaru, it's still not
appearing, I can paste it some time later but idk if you'll
still be here then. if you just want to say whether I'm joking
or not, I swear it on my life I'm not joking at all. it's
a real problem.
1403[09:41:40] <user217_> ratrace: I cant do anything. Even:
apt-get update
1404[09:42:38] <ratrace> user217_: well, you're out of disk
space. you need to free it. delete stuff. for starters, check
/var/log/ and see if there are any rotated files you could remove
1406[09:42:53] <nkuttler> and yeah, clean out logs, and then
everything else..
1407[09:43:00] <ratrace> ah yes, apt-get retains the cache,
right?
1408[09:43:05] <karlpinc> user217_: "apt-get clean" is
a good way to recover some space. It removes retrieved package
files, that are presumably already installed.
1409[09:43:36] <user217_> nkuttler: karlpinc still have error
after apt-get clean
1410[09:43:39] <mutante> yea, always the first thing i do when a
server is about to run out of disk.
1411[09:43:52] <mutante> usually gets you some breathing room
1412[09:43:54] <nkuttler> user217_: what did you do *before* you
ran out of disk space?
1413[09:44:09] <karlpinc> user217_: "df -h" will tell
you what fs is full....
1414[09:44:29] <ratrace> problem is, all these are probably
temporary measures, depending on disk size.
1415[09:44:42] <nkuttler> user217_: also find / -size +100M and
such can find big files you may or may not want to keep..
1416[09:44:48] <mutante> user217_: also du -hs /var/log/* etc to
see which dirs are the culprit
1417[09:44:56] <nkuttler> and buy bigger disks
1418[09:45:00] <ratrace> try to remove unused logs and install
"ncdu" then hunt down where the space is used and see if
you can free it
1419[09:45:04] *** Quits: nifker (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1432[09:52:40] <ratrace> user217_: look into /var/log/ and see if
there are rotated files. rotated files have .<number>.gz
suffix added by default, so some.log will have some.log.1,
some.log.2.gz, some.log.3.gz etc... you can safelry remove those
with .gz
1447[10:09:22] <ratrace> user217_: and you need less than 100k
freed to install ncdu.
1448[10:09:49] <user217_> ratrace: it already installed, I think
1449[10:10:55] *** Quits: tuxmania (~tuxmania@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1450[10:11:47] <ratrace> user217_: then use it to find out where
teh space is being used . but realistically.... if it's not the
logs or apt cache, it's probably something in your ~/ .
1451[10:12:09] <ratrace> I mean... stuff that can be removed to
free up space.
1475[10:22:46] <ratrace> for example, running it on my system
now, it wants to remove cryptsetup. if it did that, I'd never
be able to boot into my encrypted rootfs system. I wonder why
it's considered unused.... :/
1476[10:22:48] <BloatHunter> I start from so little that its
pinned and manual
1545[11:01:01] <BloatHunter> Most people dropped it after PG json
b sharding
1546[11:01:18] <Lopenew> ratrace, I had the weirdest issue last
night. After adding the smtps snippet you gave me to postfix (and
restarting postfix service), the "master" process
(postfix) was listening on 465 in addition to 587. And I could
connect to the port like this from with the mailserver container `nc
-z 192.168.x.y 465; echo $?` (returns 0) but from outside the
mailserver container I could only connect to the 587 port, not the
465 port. It's the weirdest thing ever,
1547[11:01:19] <Lopenew> because there is no iptables setup on my
mailserver container. (`iptables-save` on it returns nothing) and
the 465 rules are in exactly the same place as the 587 rules, in the
same position in the iptables.
1549[11:02:49] <Lopenew> (testing the connection directly from
the host that the container runs on). so weird.
1550[11:03:06] *** Quits: ghost43 (~daer@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1551[11:03:43] <Lopenew> mutante, yes, I know, but my systems
tools already use it. it's a huge dependency and not going
anywhere until upstream provides alternatives.
1552[11:03:56] <Lopenew> BloatHunter, yes, PG json looks awesome,
I'm keen to try it some time.
1563[11:08:59] <Lopenew> to clarify what I said above, I could
only connect to the 465 port (on either localhost or 192.168.x.y)
from within the mailserver container. From the hostnode that the
container is on, I could not connect. the mailserver container has
no iptables. The hostnode's iptables entries for 587 and 465
pertain only to forwarding connections from the outside, and are
exactly the same rules in the same position in the iptables and
don't relate to the hostnode
1564[11:08:59] <Lopenew> connecting to the container. Which is
why I'm scratching my head not knowing why the hostnode
can't connect to the mailserver container on port 465.
1571[11:10:43] <Lopenew> mutante, now that Meteor has been
acquired by tiny, and they're investing developers and
developing it actively again, alternatives to mongodb will likely
come.
1572[11:11:32] <BloatHunter> PG has been around since.... 95?
1573[11:11:37] <mutante> Lopenew: did you already check with
"netstat -tulpen" or similar if postfix is actually
listening on these ports on the interface/IP you expect it to?
1597[11:23:03] <Lopenew> there is a private bridge that the
containers are on, it's already setup, mail, web etc servers
have been running for years like this.
1605[11:27:29] <Lopenew> mutante, yeah thanks, will try that.
because I suspect that for some odd reason the connections might be
getting rejected based on originating ip, by postfix.
1706[12:20:25] <pasiz> that is the mac of your wlan station
1707[12:20:35] <pasiz> what is your question then?
1708[12:21:20] <simplicius> I go in the DHCP server section there
is the list of connected clients with their MACs, mine is different
for that you just seen
1754[12:46:13] <cyveris> pasiz: Nearly every protocol can be
encapsulated within another. Example: iSCSI over Ethernet.
Doesn't mean it will work well. There are wireless USB
solutions.
1765[12:49:23] <cyveris> No, that's PART of the standard.
There's also the protocol layer, which is where the
overwhelming majority of what you actually do with USB takes place.
1766[12:49:34] <pasiz> it's like saying wifi is rj45 over
air ;)
1767[12:49:40] *** Quits: marcello1 (~marcello1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1768[12:49:49] <cyveris> RJ45 is the physical layer.
1769[12:49:55] <pasiz> so is USB
1770[12:50:13] <cyveris> There is a physical layer in USB, yes.
But that is not the entire standard.
1773[12:51:12] *** fereneme_ is now known as fereneme
1774[12:51:20] <cyveris> Wifi takes most of 802.3 Ethernet
(L2-LLC and up, if you like the OSI model) and transplants it onto a
new physical and media access control layer. There's no reason
the same can't be done with USB, from a communications protocol
standard.
1783[12:55:48] <pasiz> yes, on aeronautics, you could carry usb
compliant devices on board
1784[12:56:30] <Surfer2011> hello, what is the easiest way to
create a file (xxx.desktop) with all the neccesary lines in one
command?
1785[12:57:03] <cyveris> pasiz: The USB *protocol* absolutely
could be adapted to a radio-based PHY, just how Wifi did so with the
data-link facilities within Ethernet. </end>
1815[13:07:11] *** Quits: Inablue (524d6398@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1816[13:08:08] <Surfer2011> i thought like [Desktop Entry]
>> /home/chef/Schreibtisch/bsw.desktop && Name=BSW
>> /home/chef/Schreibtisch/bsw.desktop && ...
1817[13:08:27] <Surfer2011> but i think those special char. cause
the problem
1823[13:10:48] <Surfer2011> ahh okay i will try this
1824[13:11:36] <Lope> ratrace, I've just checked the
container config (proxmox) there are no port specific settings in
there. I'll double check that the proxmox firewall isn't
running.
1834[13:16:23] <Lope> ratrace, there is no proxmox firewall
enabled for the container. I do my iptables myself. the hook script
for the container also does not contain anything about ports
1894[13:47:26] <bionade24> user217_: LMDE is a stretch based,
too.
1895[13:47:54] *** Quits: Immanuel (~Manu@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1896[13:47:58] <mutante> user217_: what made you install that?
1897[13:48:04] *** Quits: wonderer (~quakeroat@replaced-ip) (Quit: Famous quotes #64: "The best way to predict the
future is to invent it." - Alan Kay)
1915[13:55:51] <user217_> mutante: I dont remember now for shure,
sorry
1916[13:56:02] <mutante> user217_: how about installing Debian
then and having support :)
1917[13:56:10] <user217_> mutante: I think that I wanted to try
something new
1918[13:56:25] <mutante> i see, *nod*
1919[13:56:57] <user217_> mutante: now chances at this time,
sorry( But all you are nice, I see this)
1920[13:57:09] <mutante> user217: i think i would argue that: new
= many bugs exotic = few others to ask for help
1921[13:58:47] <user217_> mutante: as I said there is no chanse
now to change distro
1922[14:00:02] <bionade24> user217_: If you would have simply
typed your question instead of the stupid pre-question you would now
probably had the answer.
1973[14:34:11] <L0aD1nG> suggests basicly only ubuntu repos for
the source.list, though i dont encourage you to try it because i
dont know the results..
1974[14:34:43] <user217_> L0aD1nG: Im not shurethat there is any
problem with my sources
1975[14:35:21] <user217_> L0aD1nG: I use this manual
replaced-url
2091[16:00:36] <Ede|Popede> f-a: tested it both in a user shell
(but w/o sudo) and in a root shell. for umount in the user shell it
first gives me a / and then all the mountpoints. for root it
completes with entries in $CWD
2101[16:04:17] <thenori> I've spent three days cracking my
skull against nvidia drivers and all I have to show for it is a
functional display manager and a cracked skull
2107[16:06:25] <jm_> right, I assumed it's optimus setup -
have you tried configuring that?
2108[16:06:30] *** Quits: halvors (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2109[16:06:51] <jm_> !bumblebee
2110[16:06:51] <dpkg> The Bumblebee project aims to provide
support for the Nvidia Optimus GPU switching technology on Linux
systems. GeForce 400M (4xxM) and later mobile GPU series are
Optimus-enabled; if «lspci -nn | grep
'\[030[02]\]'» returns two lines, the laptop likely
uses Optimus. Packaged for Debian <jessie> and <stretch>
and <buster> and <bullseye>.
replaced-url
2111[16:07:21] <thenori> I tried bumblebee & prime and I just
ended up in and out of rescue mode for three days
2115[16:09:04] <thenori> I scoured the internet for fixes &
config files, I even found someone with my exact model of laptop
(inspiron 7559) and I could not get it to work
2123[16:11:12] <jm_> apparently there are two ways, using nouveau
and nvidia non-free driver - I thought only the latter is possible
(well it was back then)
2124[16:11:24] *** Quits: ghost43 (~daer@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2125[16:12:08] <thenori> it just doesn't detect my video
card
2133[16:14:55] <thenori> "Since Debian bullseye
libgl1-nvidia-glx no longer exists, the correct package is
libgl1-nvidia-tesla-glx libnvidia-tesla-glcore so to install nvidia
drivers from bullseye or more recent versions: "
2134[16:15:01] <thenori> this edit was made in the last two days
2171[16:25:29] <uniqdom> Hello, I have a week ago I have disabled
and stopped exim4 using: systemctl stop exim4 ; systemctl disable
exim4, I'm receiving everyday an email from the server with the
subject "exim paniclog on zeus.coders.cl has non-zero
size", and the body says: "... socket bind() to port 25
for address 127.0.0.1 failed: Address already in use: daemon
abandoned ...". I have a docker container exposing port 25.
2183[16:33:04] <uniqdom> jm_: thanks, I see that the file you
pointed says: "if [ -s "/var/log/exim4/paniclog" ];
then", then erasing the contents should work. I will have to
wait until tomorrow.
2184[16:34:03] <pingouin> hello
2185[16:34:07] <pingouin> debian buster. dhclient[563]: bound to
192.168.0.2 -- renewal in 37052 seconds . what control this
"renewal" parameter ? the /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf is
commented (#send dhcp-lease-time 3600;) i can't figure it out.
2186[16:35:04] <pingouin> systemd ? Cron ?
2187[16:35:18] *** Quits: undercovertux (~undercove@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2212[16:43:35] <jm_> pingouin: that makes no sense. the client
should do this long before the lease expires, so you should not even
be aware this is happening
2331[17:56:45] <f-a> in my sudoers.d/f I have a line like `f
extensa = NOPASSWD: MOUNT, NETWORK, APT, VPN, MACHINE, FIREWALL`.
(`f` is my username). What should I put in place of
"extensa" to match all hosts? I ask because I always
forget to modify this file when I buy a new machine
2423[18:36:19] <somiaj> anyways one hack you can do is put
'exit 0' at the top of the post install script then run
dpkg --configure -a, and it will install, but the install script
will fail to do what it was supose to, and there maybe issues
because of this.
2430[18:39:30] <somiaj> for what it is worth, fuse3 installed
just fine on a buster test system I have.
2431[18:40:06] <somiaj> but the only way I know to debug your
issue is look at the post install script and try to determine what
is failing. Since the script produced no errors, I'm not sure
what it could be.
2460[18:46:02] <karlpinc> velix: Well, it's also the release
with the most packages in Debian history. Is it proprortionally more
broken? Is it that newly introduced packages are broken? (Just
curious.)
2462[18:46:26] <velix> This flap attitude that Debian is bug-free
is terrible. Many packages are so old that even the maintainers do
not release patches for them.
2463[18:47:04] <karlpinc> velix: Debian is not bug free.
It's just that the bugs don't change.
2464[18:47:13] <velix> karlpinc: There are some important
packages, which never have been touched since Buster release.
2467[18:47:21] <dpkg> [stable] The status of a Debian release
when no packages will be added or version-bumped, and changes will
only fix security issues and critical bugs. Packages can be removed
in rare circumstances. The current stable version of Debian is
Buster (10.x); ask me about <releases>. Security bugs are
fixed in stable by backporting the fix to the stable version (ask me
about <security backports>).
replaced-url
2471[18:47:48] <velix> karlpinc: I know Debian's policy. But
a broken package is critical to me ;)
2472[18:48:11] <karlpinc> velix: I know how that feels.
2473[18:48:30] <velix> I'm in the big fortune that I'm
able to benefit and that I know the risk of doing it.
2474[18:48:46] <velix> But always answer "your system is
broken" doesn't help anyone :(
2475[18:49:27] <velix> Maybe I should push the backport to
buster-backports. All tests run successfully.
2476[18:49:48] <karlpinc> velix: somiaj tried to help you with
it, and gave you suggestions. If you don't follow them and want
to do something else that's fine, but it's on you.
2478[18:50:11] *** Joins: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
2479[18:50:15] <mdk> Hi, trying to install libwxgtk3.0-dev, but
it depends on wx3.0-headers (= 3.0.4+dfsg-14), but I only see
version 3.0.4+dfsg-15 available, what did I get wrong?
2481[18:50:29] <jelly> velix, noone said debian was bugfree,
it's you that had a fit when it wsa implied your environment
has something weird that triggered a bug that does not happen
normally
2482[18:50:30] <karlpinc> velix: You could. But then you're
supposed to commit to maintaining the backport. Which means keeping
up with problems with security and fixing the backport when
there's security issues.
2483[18:50:34] <velix> karlpinc: I want to do so, but getting
punished with "having a broken system" is way too much to
handle. I'm administrating more than 12 debian servers right
now.
2484[18:50:48] <velix> karlpinc: I thought, backports don't
come without any warranty?
2494[18:53:22] *** Quits: barteks2x__ (~barteks2x@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2495[18:53:56] <jelly> this isn't the greatest idea;
<somiaj> anyways one hack you can do is put 'exit 0'
at the top of the post install script then run dpkg --configure -a,
2497[18:54:04] <mdk> karlpinc: (pasting commands are better, I
think I managed to get it wrong in my first message :p)
2498[18:54:09] <karlpinc> velix: They don't come with an
official debian warranty. They are _supposed_ to be useful, which
means have some sort of security maintenance.
2502[18:54:44] <jelly> somiaj, adding "set -x" and
figuring out what, exactly, fails is more sane
2503[18:55:22] <jelly> velix, I don't think I have a single
system with ONLY Debian packages.
2504[18:55:32] *** Quits: StrongMan40 (~StrongMan@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2505[18:55:33] <karlpinc> mdk: You're running testing.
Testing breaks. For support see #debian-next.
2506[18:55:37] <karlpinc> !debian-next
2507[18:55:37] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for
testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not*
on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is
invite only)." it means you did not read it's on
irc.oftc.net.
2508[18:56:04] <mdk> karlpinc: thanks :)
2509[18:56:13] <velix> somiaj: Sorry for being so upset...
homeoffice makes me crazy.
2510[18:56:31] <mdk> karlpinc: I'm OK with it breaking,
I'm also OK to try to report it cleanly to who can be
interested :) joining #debian-next, thanks!
2511[18:56:51] <jelly> velix, but Debian is still my preferred
platform, because there's the least amount of extra stuff to
add to make machines do useful things
2513[18:57:28] <velix> Comtainers made me stay at Debian.
2514[18:57:32] <karlpinc> velix: That said, I bet that not a
whole lot of people who upload backports actually monitor and update
when there are security issues. The kernel is probably an exception,
just because so many people use it. But that's a guess.
2515[18:58:07] <karlpinc> jelly: Same here. Of everything, debian
is easiest.
2517[18:58:37] <karlpinc> velix: What flavor of containers do you
use?
2518[18:59:24] <velix> karlpinc: In the past, I've used
chroots to backport stuff. Now I'm using rootless containers
using podman and run the containers contributed by the coders
theirself (or I build my own ones).
2519[18:59:36] <annadane> i guess we sort of build systems and
make a few reasonable guesses about what the case will be (backports
will be generally well supervised, packages in stable will avoid
most *critical* bugs because of the testing of going through two
branches before stable etc) and when things fail, we adjust
accordingly and address those specific concerns
2520[19:00:28] <annadane> or become contributors ourselves like
people in the debian project suggest, step up and fix the problems
ourselves
2521[19:00:42] <karlpinc> annadane: Hard to know backports are
not getting security updates though. :-P
2522[19:00:52] <velix> Just to emphasize this again: I am NOT
complaining that the packages are too old. I'm just curious
that some of the packages are obviously broken, like fuse3. Most
tools use fuse2, so the fuse3 bug may not have been noticed.
2523[19:01:03] <annadane> it does seem like a bit of a magic
bullet for new users when they're not necessarily aware of
stuff like that, yes
2527[19:02:02] <velix> karlpinc: I'm calming down, since my
backport works great ,)
2528[19:02:15] <annadane> there's no perfect solution
between "stable has some broken packages (which btw we should
look into fixing more of those for point releases), testing has
broken packages for a while and the slowest security updates, sid is
you get to keep all the pieces if it breaks"
2529[19:02:34] <karlpinc> velix: Crank up. Drink some RedBull.
Become a Debian dev. Fix the world!
2531[19:03:40] <annadane> the thing with backports though is that
in theory they should avoid a lot of problems, you have to be
motivated to upload a backport, you're clearly doing it because
it fulfills a function you need so in theory there's going to
be care put into it
2533[19:04:10] <jelly> velix, when someone says thing is broken
on YOUR system, that means you have a combination of elements that
triggers a bug; the bug might NOT happen on other systems.
2534[19:04:16] <annadane> i feel like packages are broken rarely,
and while they cause frustration as witnessed today it's not
"every package is broken all the time"
2535[19:04:20] *** linuxraven is now known as plaur_27
2536[19:04:26] <jelly> velix, so what's obvious to YOU is
not obvious to US
2537[19:04:34] <karlpinc> annadane: Yeah. But 70% of the work is
keeping up with changes. (In so far as maintaining software anyway.)
And that's an additional 70% that people don't want to do.
2538[19:04:39] <jelly> annadane, oh some are so broken.
2539[19:05:14] <jelly> but it's a rare thing to have a
completely uninstallable package end up in stable if anyone is using
it
2540[19:05:17] <karlpinc> annadane: Every package probably _is_
broken all the time. We just don't know it or don't care.
:)
2541[19:05:17] <annadane> in the end it's a cliche to say
debian is a volunteer project so step up you lazy sod, but it is
also partially true
2542[19:05:53] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> There's some broken
packages though even in stable.
2543[19:06:11] <jelly> Aurora_iz_kosmos, uninstallable and
without a RC bug?
2544[19:06:16] *** Inablue is now known as ina_23
2545[19:06:20] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> jelly: RC?
2546[19:06:30] <jelly> release critical
2547[19:06:36] <jelly> !rc
2548[19:06:37] <dpkg> i guess rc is <Release-Critical>, or
Release Candidate, or "run commands": a filename extension
convention used in Unix configuration files (e.g. .muttrc,
.screenrc, .vimrc).
2549[19:06:44] <jelly> !Release-Critical
2550[19:06:45] <dpkg> Release-Critical bugs are Debian bugs with
critical, grave or serious severities, preventing the next release
of Debian. See the graph at
replaced-url
2551[19:06:49] *** ina_23 is now known as inablue
2552[19:07:14] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> jelly: Hardly. They just make
Geiser completely unusable for Guile-2.2 on systems that have both
Guile-2.0 and Guile-2.2 installed.
2553[19:07:29] *** Quits: paco (~dell@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2554[19:08:09] <annadane> at least debian has the least surprises
and the bugs are known and you can address it then rather than have
a torrent (as in a lot of; not downloadable torrents) of new
packages/bugs that you have to keep up with updates for like arch
(to be fair, i hear arch is quite good quality-wise)
2555[19:08:51] <annadane> i guess i'm also preaching to the
choir so sorry for the rant
2559[19:10:10] <annadane> i guess this is also why it's good
to not discourage people from running testing/sid if they know the
risks and they're willing to solve problems, because more
testing is a good thing before these packages enter stable
2563[19:11:17] <greycat> people who know how to triage a problem
and write a coherent bug report are wonderful, and we need more of
those... unfortunately, most of the people who run testing and then
come here are just looking for "n3w3r p4ckag35"
2567[19:12:40] <wwilliam> what hardware do you recomment for a
home desktop with at least 64GB ram not for gaming mostly to created
VM's so an extreme video card is not need it.Thank you
2602[19:32:32] <doubletwist> So I'm a little unclear. If I
want to manage repo gpg trust via saltstack. In RHEL based systems I
can place the keys in /etc/pki/rpm-gpg then import them. Is there a
similar 'proper' place to put gpg repo keys in debian? (
eg /usr/share/keyrings ?) and once the files there, are they
automatically imported or do I still need to do apt-key add ?
2603[19:33:28] <somiaj> doubletwist: usually /usr is for debian
packages to put files, so what you see in /usr/share is put there by
debian packages.
2606[19:34:01] <somiaj> doubletwist: so I don't think
/usr/share/keyrings would be appropriate for to manually put a key,
though I don't know the prefered place.
2618[19:38:08] <doubletwist> Or I'm thinking it's
saying there is no real place to put them, just pipe the key through
"apt-key add" and not actually store a file anywhere -
other than the keyring that 'apt-key add' itself adds it
to
2623[19:39:25] <somiaj> doubletwist: I guess I'm surprised
they are suggesting using /usr/share/keyring on that wiki, but that
is there suggestion. Guess it is as good as any.
2625[19:40:26] <doubletwist> Actually I'm starting to think
I'd be better off doing it differently on the salt side
aptpkg.add_repo_key might be a better path for me
2626[19:40:29] <somiaj> s/there/their/
2627[19:41:37] *** Quits: Immanuel (~Manu@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2628[19:42:43] *** Joins: Immanuel (~Manu@replaced-ip)
2644[19:49:19] <jozefk_2> hi. I messed up my initramfs it seems.
Or the grup. Whatever is used for booting the system. I tried to
install drivers for USB WiFi dongle and things didn't go well
after reboot. I ended up in initramfs prompt. Is there a way to fix
that somehow?
2678[19:59:06] <jjoeshua> just share link where to register
2679[19:59:14] <greycat> If you need help registering with
nickserv, beyond what "/msg nickserv help" says, go ask in
#freenode.
2680[19:59:21] <ratrace> ah with that? ok...
replaced-url
2681[19:59:29] <BloatHunter> The color-helper has a 404'd
URL that is http, also the tls cert seems to be for a birth hypnosis
website: gsettings get org.freedesktop.ColorHelper
profile-upload-uri
2846[20:54:45] <Mazhive_one> guys i dont know what happen ery
strang i have a enp4s0 dev up but my networking service failes to
startup but it has local network how is that possible ,according to
systemctl status : ifup[9181]: ifup: failed to bring up eth0 but i
do not have a eth0 yet a enp4s0 if i down the device yet i have
still connection ??
2853[20:59:42] <Mazhive_one> i must confess i think i installed
it recently just yesterday i had to down my computer due to power
outage so this could be a result of installing network manager..
2906[21:37:03] <fuxxy> I'm running Deluge on a machine with
two network cards. I've bound the user 'deluged' to
one of the NICs, but DNS queries are still being sent to the top DNS
resolver in /etc/resolv.conf. Is there a way I can force DNS queries
to a specific nameserver, like I did with the interfaces?
2916[21:44:46] *** Quits: magic_ninja (~sparkie1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2917[21:45:45] <gp5st__> I'm having trouble finding
information on this. Does debian run on an STM32 board? I was
thinking specifically of an 32F746GDISCOVERY but my searching skills
don't seem up to the task
2935[21:55:23] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Well, I'd just comment
everything and restart the network manager service then add a
configuration for the interface.
2949[21:58:02] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> I think it's
NetworkManager.service
2950[21:58:07] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> (For some reason capitalized)
2951[21:58:29] <Mazhive> yep thanx
2952[21:59:29] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> If you cannot use the machine
without an online connection, get it provisioned with two
interfaces, and start with only commenting out one of them and
having it managed by network-manager, then the second once
you're sure the first works.
2966[22:03:02] <fission6> i need to install `apt-get install
postgresql-10-repack` but its not available inside of a docker
container, so i am trying to be as precise as possible and add it to
the image
3065[23:14:41] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Can a route have ipv4 &
ipv6 hops?
3066[23:14:51] <somiaj> I think the suggestion you were given was
to use the version from backports. So if you have backports in your
sources.list 'apt-get -t buster-backports install
torbrowser-launcher'
3067[23:15:51] <somiaj> L0aD1nG: if you still get some python
errors with that, maybe paste the output of the command you ran and
the errors at someplace like paste.debian.net
3070[23:17:23] <L0aD1nG> somiaj: i have it in my list and i
thought it was setted to select backports first but in my
/etc/apt/prefferences was still "wheezy-backports"...
3076[23:18:51] <L0aD1nG> somiaj: why? i thought is for newer and
stable packages..
3077[23:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1550
3078[23:19:06] <BloatHunter> so just pin the package
3079[23:19:16] <L0aD1nG> i will delete it then okay
3080[23:19:21] <BloatHunter> this is seriously a solved problem
3081[23:19:32] <somiaj> L0aD1nG: part of debian stability is a
frozen system that has undergone a lot of testing. Backport packages
do not have this testing. In addition backport packages don't
have security support.
3084[23:19:54] <BloatHunter> did you read what the package does
3085[23:20:29] <somiaj> L0aD1nG: backport packages are provided
for users who need newer versions than provided by debian stable. In
practice one should only install the package backports they need
(not just get any backport that is avialble).
3106[23:24:29] *** Quits: Tobbi (~Tobbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
3107[23:24:37] <L0aD1nG> it askes for a object instead of a
string
3108[23:24:53] <somiaj> user217217: no debian allows you to
install one of many desktops. There isn't a special kde one,
you can can choose to install KDE during the install.
3109[23:25:00] *** Quits: bliv (~bliv@replaced-ip) (Disconnected by services)
3126[23:30:42] <L0aD1nG> somiaj: if i am not mistaken the error
is both either from stable or backports
3127[23:30:57] <L0aD1nG> cause i installed it from both and the
error remains
3128[23:31:26] <somiaj> L0aD1nG: Can't find any info
regarding this issue, but some suggestion I have seen. you could try
'torbrowser-launcher --settings' see if you can force it
to redownload things. You might also want to remove the local cache
of files in $HOME.
3130[23:31:55] <somiaj> L0aD1nG: one thing you could test is
create a new user, log into X with that new user, and run
torbrowser-launcher, this will let you know there is some issue in
the $HOME dir of your current user.
3131[23:32:50] *** Quits: dtux (~dmtucker@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3132[23:33:14] <L0aD1nG> torbrowser-launcher --settings is
throwing the same error i posted
3133[23:33:39] <Gerula> I'm on debian xfce, and sometimes
vlc goes to 100% cpu usage and the system is unusable. I switch to a
different tty, kill vlc but then when I go back there's only
the cursor. if I kill any other process X restarts the session. I
looked into earlyoom and installed it but it doesn't make a
difference. What would be a correct way to handle this problem?
3135[23:34:05] <L0aD1nG> i ll just stick out with the set up of
tor browser i had. I just wanted to see if i can have via the repos
so have no external programs installed at all
3136[23:34:30] <L0aD1nG> now for the tor-browser i can do an
exception
3137[23:34:53] <somiaj> L0aD1nG: I didn't see any bug report
about your issue, so I would try to see if a user with a clean $HOME
still has this problem.
3138[23:35:33] <L0aD1nG> i am about to sleep now do you want me
to do it tommorow?
3153[23:40:20] <somiaj> should be, though instead of delete you
can move it somewhere else (As a backup) in case you want (or need)
to change other thigns from the default.
3154[23:41:32] <L0aD1nG> okay. thank you so much for the help!
3155[23:41:53] *** Quits: Twemlow (~exodus@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)