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• 27[00:13:20] <SerajewelKS> man trying to find a decent networked color laser printer that will work with linux, has good print quality, and has good toner cost per page is challenging
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• 29[00:16:51] <KNERD> SerajewelKS: You mean the Samsug Universal Pritn driver for Linxu is not working?
• 30[00:17:59] <SerajewelKS> i mean when doing research nobody even talks about whether the printers' network interface is supported on linux
• 31[00:18:06] <hypn0> you should check hardware first, not afterwards
• 32[00:18:25] <SerajewelKS> and it's even harder to find printers that are just good to begin with, let alone advertise linux compatibility
• 33[00:18:40] <KNERD> it's a TCP/IP interface , so of course it its supported
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• 35[00:19:11] <KNERD> I have owned several samgsung printers, and color ones, and they have all worked with Linux
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• 37[00:20:33] <hypn0> replaced-url
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• 40[00:21:00] <hypn0> maybe your using the wrong driver ?
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• 44[00:21:21] <hypn0> the newest driver isn't for all of them
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• 62[00:31:42] <KNERD> Usually if it supports MAC, Linux is there since they are similar operating systems
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• 64[00:32:30] <KNERD> Here is one on sale from Best Buy replaced-url
• 65[00:32:33] *** Parts: quiliro (~quiliro@replaced-ip) ()
• 66[00:32:51] <KNERD> Linuux Drivers with Debian support replaced-url
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• 68[00:33:23] <KNERD> SerajewelKS:
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• 74[00:38:39] <joepublic> Usually if it supports MAC, Linux and BSD are there because Apple owns and develops CUPS, the Common Unix Printing System.
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• 77[00:39:13] <KNERD> I did not know that. Thanks for that info
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• 79[00:39:45] <joepublic> It has helped, that's for sure.
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• 82[00:40:03] <KNERD> Yeah it has
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• 85[00:42:45] <joepublic> I have an HP "Network" laser printer here whose TCP/IP printing works on "Windows" and only "Windows"
• 86[00:42:57] <joepublic> I have been trying to give it away locally but no one wants it.
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• 90[00:43:56] <KNERD> That makes no sense, since TCP/IP is a IEEE standard
• 91[00:44:08] <KNERD> What model is it?
• 92[00:44:20] <joepublic> You can send packets to it, you just can't send packets to it that it interprets as "oh, I should print this"
• 93[00:44:24] <joepublic> I dunno let me look
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• 96[00:45:40] <joepublic> LaserJet P1109w. Has usb and wifi connectivity.
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• 98[00:46:15] <joepublic> Works great as a paperweight.
• 99[00:46:32] *** Parts: cCkw (~Joep@replaced-ip) ()
• 100[00:46:35] <joepublic> Might work via usb, haven't tried.
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• 102[00:46:43] <KNERD> I see no drivers for Linux, but MAC there is replaced-url
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• 104[00:47:28] <KNERD> Yeah I can see why. I am very happy with my Samsumg duplex I got for $50
• 105[00:47:57] <KNERD> Xpress M2835DW
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• 112[00:50:10] <allizom> joepublic: do you have the proprietary HP plugin installed? Some printers including yours need it: replaced-url
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• 116[00:50:21] <allizom> I'm not saying you should install it
• 117[00:51:13] <joepublic> The printer does not support jetdirect, the printer does not support LPR. It is not a network printer as we know it. It has a proprietary network interface accessed by proprietary HP Software. That put it on my "no thanks" list.
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• 122[00:52:25] <joepublic> If I can't send PCL, Postscript, or similar to it from cups then I am not interested in using it. I am supporting a mix of GNU/Linux, BSD, and Windows clients here.
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• 124[00:53:53] <joepublic> I cite this printer because someone mentioned that TCP/IP connectivity was a slam-dunk, and that needs to be amended to "unless you have this abomination."
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• 126[00:54:59] <allizom> yes, being a networked printer is not a panacea
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• 150[01:05:52] <oo_miguel> I created an entry in the anacrontab marked with @daily but it gets executed every hour.
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• 169[01:33:13] <pagetelegram> is node package manager in the depos and if not what address should I add so I can apt it? (npm)
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• 174[01:35:17] <EdePopede> ,v npm
• 175[01:35:18] <judd> Package: npm on amd64 -- jessie: 1.4.21+ds-2; stretch-backports: 5.8.0+ds6-2~bpo9+1; buster: 5.8.0+ds6-3; sid: 5.8.0+ds6-3
• 176[01:35:26] <EdePopede> (btw, you can /msg it)
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• 239[02:16:43] <hemebond> Is sudoers no longer the way to grant permissions in Debian with SystemD? Trying to delegate permission to "systemctl restart myservice" but getting policykit error and then getting prompts for a password.
• 240[02:17:39] <joepublic> sudoers (via visudo) is the way to grant permissions with sudo.
• 241[02:17:40] <Datz> hi, I'm on a fresh install of debian 9. I installed mysql-server, but I can't seem to log in as the root user. I've tried the first answer here without sucess. Any ideas? replaced-url
• 242[02:17:46] <Datz> also asked in #linux
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• 244[02:18:16] <Datz> one question.. is a "root" user created on install of mysql?
• 245[02:18:27] <hemebond> joepublic: I was getting a policykit service missing error when I tried to do it. Then after installing policykit-1 I now get a password prompt.
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• 247[02:19:04] <joepublic> that sounds like an all-clear to me
• 248[02:19:26] <hemebond> But I have NOPASSWD in sudoers for the command.
• 249[02:19:52] <LtL> hemebond: as root you can 'adduser username sudo' logout/login. that's one way
• 250[02:19:53] <joepublic> sudoers is order-specific; the order in which the rules appear can make some work and not others
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• 252[02:20:34] <joepublic> I forget which. try moving the NOPASSWD directive to the top/bottom of the file and trying again
• 253[02:20:35] <whislock> Specifically, the last matching rule in sudoers takes effect.
• 254[02:20:37] <hemebond> There are only two rules for this user, two different commands.
• 255[02:20:54] <whislock> hemebond: Try specifying the full path to systemctl.
• 256[02:20:57] <hemebond> Both commands have NOPASSWD on the line.
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• 258[02:21:11] <hemebond> whislock: Yip, full paths used.
• 259[02:21:13] <joepublic> hemebond, if the user is in a group with a matching line, that will bork it.
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• 261[02:21:20] <whislock> ^
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• 263[02:21:27] <whislock> If that group rule is the last in the file, yes.
• 264[02:21:35] <whislock> Or, at least, later than the other matches.
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• 268[02:22:14] <themill> hemebond: what's the exact command you're giving?
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• 270[02:22:38] <hemebond> replaced-url
• 271[02:23:18] <hemebond> replaced-url
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• 273[02:23:33] <whislock> That's not how that works.
• 274[02:23:45] <whislock> Your command is telling nagios to run 'systemctl restart...' not 'sudo systemctl restart...'
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• 276[02:24:00] <hemebond> LOL
• 277[02:24:03] <Kobaz> what the helllll
• 278[02:24:05] <Kobaz> systemd is a virus
• 279[02:24:19] <whislock> Kobaz: systemd is a virus because sudo doesn't work without the sudo command???
• 280[02:24:24] <Kobaz> apt-get install gwenview... The following packages will be REMOVED: sysvinit-core
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• 282[02:24:38] <Kobaz> he following additional packages will be installed: systemd systemd-sysv
• 283[02:24:47] <whislock> Which Debian release are you running?
• 284[02:24:49] <Kobaz> why the hell would an image viewer auto-install systemd
• 285[02:24:51] <Kobaz> buster
• 286[02:24:59] <joepublic> systemd is a virus because it infects wide-reaching areas of the system, not because sudo has definite syntax.
• 287[02:25:04] <themill> Kobaz: if you would like assistance, then please ask in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net.
• 288[02:25:12] <themill> Kobaz: If you want to rant, you can take it to /dev/null, thanks
• 289[02:25:25] <hemebond> Thank you all. Such a silly mistake.
• 290[02:25:30] <whislock> hemebond: All good.
• 291[02:25:43] <Kobaz> not so much a rant as in like, this is a bit of a problem
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• 293[02:25:50] <Kobaz> yeah, already irc-ing on debian-next
• 294[02:25:55] <whislock> joepublic: "systemd doing its job(s) as designed" != "infects." Stop the fud.
• 295[02:26:04] <hemebond> I like SystemD
• 296[02:26:16] *** Quits: tom_work (~tom_work@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 297[02:26:22] <joepublic> It's not fear, I am not uncertain, I don't doubt. I just don't like systemd. Go eat a dirt burrito.
• 298[02:26:24] <hemebond> Writing services for the old init system was thoroughly unpleasant and confusing.
• 299[02:26:35] *** Quits: robert__ (~robert@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 300[02:27:03] <whislock> joepublic: It is FUD. Your personal convictions and prejudices don't make it not FUD. Can your attitude, or go away.
• 301[02:27:18] <joepublic> advice, if you don't want to know, don't ask.
• 302[02:27:33] *** Joins: abc (b3b56229@replaced-ip)
• 303[02:27:37] <Kobaz> whislock: agreed, BUT... some people don't want it, and apps that have no business including a dependency on systemd bring it in... therefore the virus behavior
• 304[02:27:38] <themill> let's stick to fixing actual problems?
• 305[02:27:47] <themill> Kobaz: that's enough, thanks
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• 307[02:28:10] <whislock> Kobaz: Then use a distro that doesn't ship it. Easy enough. Apps have every business deciding what functionality they want to use from other packages.
• 308[02:28:21] <whislock> </end>
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• 312[02:30:45] <Kobaz> meh
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• 315[02:31:15] <Kobaz> apps should not specify dependencies on init systems
• 316[02:31:22] <Kobaz> that's pretty standard
• 317[02:31:57] <themill> dude.
• 318[02:31:57] <Kobaz> common sense type stuff...
• 319[02:32:08] <themill> Perhaps you should read more.
• 320[02:32:10] <hemebond> Sounds like an issue with the application.
• 321[02:32:14] <Kobaz> right, it is
• 322[02:33:11] <joepublic> I am no lover of systemd, but I do recognize that it is a suite that provides other separate applications that are not "init systems".
• 323[02:33:39] <Kobaz> well true
• 324[02:34:01] <Kobaz> there's the whole can of worms of it does too many things, but now we're getting a bit off topic, heh
• 325[02:34:16] <themill> 'getting'
• 326[02:34:20] <joepublic> lol
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• 338[02:45:00] <pagetelegram> Now I want email on console linux....what are some recommendations? I remember using pine during my college years.
• 339[02:45:55] <Kobaz> mutt
• 340[02:46:02] *** Quits: os43138 (~OS-43138@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 341[02:46:03] <Kobaz> if you like pine, mutt's pretty awesome
• 342[02:46:08] <pagetelegram> great!
• 343[02:46:10] <pagetelegram> thanks
• 344[02:46:54] <friendofafriend> mutt is fantastic, works great with Gmail even.
• 345[02:47:46] <friendofafriend> Has nice color schemes, is light as a feather, makes ancient hardware useful again. You can get a pretty good experince on any old dirtball laptop with links and mutt.
• 346[02:47:58] *** Quits: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 347[02:49:34] <friendofafriend> And VLC does a much better job with your YouTube videos than a browser can. I'm still using an old AMD A4 dual-core laptop for a daily driver with those tools.
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• 349[02:53:14] <friendofafriend> Oh, and hangups is dandy for using Google Messages at the terminal. Can't recommend that enough.
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• 355[02:57:49] <pagetelegram> working nice....loading 30k headers now
• 356[02:58:00] <rwp> mutt is excellent. Very fast.
• 357[02:58:13] <pagetelegram> VLC console only tho?
• 358[02:58:30] <Kobaz> very fast... hard to find that in an app these days
• 359[02:58:42] * Kobaz eyes thunderbird
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• 361[02:59:15] <pagetelegram> thunderbird is disquisting...It crashes with the number of emails I have!
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• 363[02:59:53] <pagetelegram> besides I'm trying to do 90% of what I do console only....it is the overhead I want to escape from and of course task-switching is better for the brain
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• 372[03:01:40] <rwp> pagetelegram, Have you discovered 'tmux' yet?
• 373[03:02:09] <Kobaz> i use mosh
• 374[03:02:38] <Kobaz> some of my hotkeys don't work with mosh though
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• 376[03:03:55] <pagetelegram> tmux yeah...tho baremetal haven't need for ssh to baremetal yet...it is on the list.
• 377[03:04:38] <pagetelegram> does mutt have 'reply all' option? got a few folks I want to say 'hello world' too
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• 379[03:05:06] <rwp> I also use 'mosh'. FTW! Use mosh to connect to remote tmux sessions. "mosh -a -- havoc tmux attach -t 0 -d" (havoc is my server)
• 380[03:05:14] *** Quits: dmtucker (~dmtucker@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 381[03:05:48] <rwp> pagetelegram, mutt reply all: 'g'roup reply. Use '?' to get a key binding listing.
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• 384[03:08:23] <pagetelegram> thanks
• 385[03:08:34] <pagetelegram> I just sent my first mutt mail!
• 386[03:11:37] * friendofafriend throws an IRC party!!
• 387[03:12:19] <friendofafriend> You'll really start to love mutt, especially if you've been using a web interface for mail. It's just so fast.
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• 393[03:19:00] <pagetelegram> I'm loving it....mutt is my new hut[t]
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• 425[03:43:43] <pagetelegram> cvlc wants pulse. And I want alsa. How do I get cvlc to jive with alsa?
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• 427[03:44:40] <ryouma> cvlc?
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• 432[03:46:11] <ryouma> they must have added teh dependency for stretch then? i do not use pulse and i run vlc.
• 433[03:47:05] <ryouma> audio menu audio device if cvlc is gui
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• 435[03:47:54] <themill> pagetelegram: installing libpulse0 ≠ running pulseaudio
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• 437[03:50:06] <pagetelegram> ^ - side burner for now....cvlc crashed my system for switching terminals during video playback so just sticking to aaxine.
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• 439[03:50:51] <pagetelegram> in mutt how to I limit header cache or set Max Header Cache so it loads quicker?
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• 457[04:09:27] <rwp> pagetelegram, I don't limit it and my very extensive and long lived ~/Mail/headercache directory is 176M in size.
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• 493[04:56:44] <PaddyF> !backup
• 494[04:56:44] <dpkg> A backup is something you should do *ALWAYS*. if you value your sh*t in the least. Otherwise eons of built-up data can go BYE BYE FOREVER one day if you do not; either by HD malfunction, intentional evil by crackers, mischievous glak elves invading your system, or large magnets getting out of hand. Pay the dollars for a tape system or CDR and use <tar> (optionally with bzip2 at lowest compression). See <things to backup>.
• 495[04:57:01] <PaddyF> hah, tape systems
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• 501[04:58:21] <cheapie> PaddyF: Tape systems are still pretty widespread in the business world. CD-R is probably the less practical of the two examples :P
• 502[04:58:48] <PaddyF> tape systems suck because they are very temperature critical
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• 505[04:59:27] <cheapie> I'm not sure how true that is, but decent enterprisey datacenters usually have some pretty good HVAC systems anyway.
• 506[04:59:39] <PaddyF> so you have your backup strategy completed within weeks of hard thinking but the tapes have errors
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• 508[05:00:05] <PaddyF> i used tapes to times where novell netware 3 was used
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• 510[05:00:12] <cheapie> For personal use, I'd recommend just using more hard drives. Check them periodically to make sure they're still readable, and store at least some of them offsite.
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• 518[05:03:57] <PaddyF> an install of my prefered linux flavour takes about 20 minutes and a spare 2TB drive costs around 100 bucks. so i see no need to work on a clever backup strategy for many hours
• 519[05:04:30] <whislock> Your objections to tapes are unfounded. Managed petabytes of tape backups when I was in the military, and we weren't exactly careful with temperatures. Tested restores constantly, never an issue.
• 520[05:04:35] <whislock> Don't use crappy tapes, I guess.
• 521[05:05:21] <PaddyF> the military with unlimited funds. I SEE.
• 522[05:05:39] <PaddyF> so lets try to make a statement that applies to all people the same time
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• 633[07:00:05] <pagetelegram> can't compile tefax or qfax they are over 20 years old....anyone know of a maintained interface for efax that is console friendly?
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• 637[07:05:27] <ealfonso> I used the "dd if=... of=..." method to create a bootable USB to install debian, which worked. now I'd like to keep the USB as a bootable drive for the debian installer and use the rest of the space for other files. but when I open with gparted, I get errors like "the driver descriptor says the physical block size is 2048 bytes, but Linux says it is 512 bytes." and it claims a 32Gb stick is 117 Gib. is there a tool that can help me add
• 638[07:05:27] <ealfonso> a partiion to this USB drive while keeping it bootable?
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• 652[07:18:21] <diogenes_> ealfonso, try mx linux live usb creator
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• 654[07:18:39] <diogenes_> awwesome tool
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• 664[07:25:12] <tarzeau> diogenes_: can i customize the linux live usb?
• 665[07:25:22] <tarzeau> diogenes_: url?
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• 687[07:40:09] <eigma> for a fresh install, amd64, grub2, by what process are files copied from /usr/lib/grub/i386-pc to /boot/grub?
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• 709[07:51:27] <diogenes_> tarzeau, replaced-url
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• 724[08:02:54] <tarzeau> diogenes_: i though it's my live usb creator, but it's mx linux? not debian?
• 725[08:04:19] <tarzeau> diogenes_: can i remove all xfce and add wmaker/gnustep? i'm having a hard time creating updates for livecd.gnustep.org (but i remember mepis gui tool for the first live cd)
• 726[08:04:20] <diogenes_> tarzeau, mx linuz is based on debian 9
• 727[08:04:43] <tarzeau> diogenes_: can i build stuff based on debian 10 (testing, at the moment) or also sid?
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• 749[08:24:57] <vlt> Hello. Three days ago I upgraded one of our machines from Debian 8 to 9 (after a previous uptime of ~300 days). After a few hours any network communication stopped. I serial’d in and saw this: replaced-url
• 750[08:25:16] <vlt> Now, after 31 hours it happened again: replaced-url
• 751[08:25:38] <tarzeau> vlt: which kernel exactly?
• 752[08:26:03] <vlt> Linux zv8n 4.9.0-8-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.130-2 (2018-10-27) x86_64 GNU/Linux
• 753[08:26:04] <tarzeau> vlt: dmesg -T shows you useful timestamps
• 754[08:26:13] <tarzeau> vlt: can you run with the older kernel?
• 755[08:26:48] <tarzeau> vlt: coudln't find the debian bts entry for it but replaced-url
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• 757[08:27:02] <tarzeau> vlt: try to use another kernel older/newer whatever
• 758[08:27:13] <vlt> tarzeau: You mean run Debian 9 but the Debian 8’s kernel 3.16 that worked?
• 759[08:27:26] <tarzeau> yeah until you have a closer look to fix it properly
• 760[08:28:03] <tarzeau> vlt: you're using the igb linux kernel driver (intel gigabit network card)
• 761[08:28:12] <tarzeau> vlt: try searching for it on bugs.debian.org
• 762[08:28:29] <tarzeau> oh that's xen, and bridged
• 763[08:29:24] <vlt> tarzeau: Thank you! I’ll prepare a grub.cfg that loads the old kernel. Do I need to use the old or new initrd.img?
• 764[08:29:50] <tarzeau> it's always the same one fitting to the kernel, yes also old initrd
• 765[08:29:57] <tarzeau> they are together, unmixable
• 766[08:30:10] <vlt> Ok. thank you very much :)
• 767[08:30:22] <tarzeau> what you could try is, get another nic insert it, use that network interface to see if it resolves the problem
• 768[08:30:33] <tarzeau> (not from the same manufacturer obviously)
• 769[08:31:06] <vlt> tarzeau: It’s an Intel system with onbord NIC. Hmmm ...
• 770[08:31:18] <tarzeau> leave it inside, add another :)
• 771[08:31:29] <tarzeau> we do that with the graphics cards (on board ones suck)
• 772[08:31:46] <tarzeau> sometimes also with onboard nics (10 years ago they had 100mbit, and we added gbit cards)
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• 774[08:32:10] <tarzeau> meanwhile people want 10gb nics
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• 776[08:33:14] * vlt wonders if the second onboard NIC would be affected as well or if I could add another cable to the machine as fallback solution.
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• 778[08:34:57] <pagetelegram> exit
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• 801[08:44:22] <madrik> Greetings.
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• 836[09:02:35] <trysten> I was running cp, copying a file to a cifs mount. Now cp is unkillable and the ppid is 1! What do I do?
• 837[09:03:03] <trysten> I need to kill cp so I can run unmount
• 838[09:03:08] <apollo13> reboot :þ
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• 843[09:03:30] <trysten> Other than that >.>
• 844[09:03:36] <apollo13> or break in with gdb and close/interrupt the syscalls maybe
• 845[09:04:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1474
• 846[09:04:24] <trysten> That might be beyond my skill
• 847[09:04:38] <trysten> How would i make the closing call once I broke in?
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• 883[09:24:57] <Jmabsd> How do you install the AMDGPU drivers on Debian really? AMD's official .deb file prints "unsupported OS", and the "firmware-linux" package does not include the drivers apparently
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• 886[09:27:01] <petn-randall> Jmabsd: Most AMD GPUs have open source drivers in Debian already. So it really depends on your chipset.
• 887[09:27:28] <Jmabsd> replaced-url
• 888[09:27:49] <Jmabsd> petn-randall: which are the package names for the bundled open source drivers?
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• 891[09:29:04] <petn-randall> Jmabsd: It's probably easier for you to tell us what chipset you have instead of me listing all 300+ supported ATI/AMD devices.
• 892[09:29:19] <Jmabsd> replaced-url
• 893[09:29:26] <towo^work> there is no need for installing anything special
• 894[09:29:32] <Jmabsd> petn-randall: it's a Vega 64, on an old Xeon E3-or-something motherboard
• 895[09:29:33] <towo^work> it should be installed by default
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• 897[09:29:55] <towo^work> oho, vega 64 and debian stable is a bad combination
• 898[09:30:00] <Jmabsd> towo^work: some GPU software detects no GPU, and doing "dmesg | grep -i amd" and "-i gpu" finds nothing
• 899[09:30:13] <towo^work> you need a recent kernel, mesa and drm stack
• 900[09:30:40] <towo^work> Jmabsd, you need firmware-amd-fraphics installed in a recent version
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• 902[09:30:54] <towo^work> so you only hope are backports or switch to buster
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• 904[09:31:14] <towo^work> *firmware-amd-graphics that is
• 905[09:31:26] <Jmabsd> towo^work: i have "firmware-amd-graphics" already
• 906[09:31:35] <Jmabsd> towo^work: oh.. backports
• 907[09:31:40] <towo^work> but an old version if not installed from bbackports
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• 909[09:31:48] <Jmabsd> i probably need a new version i guess
• 910[09:31:58] <Jmabsd> should i add backports and see if it has a new "firmware-amd-graphics" version, or what?
• 911[09:32:39] <towo^work> i'm sure, it has a newer version
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• 914[09:32:51] <towo^work> because you even need a newer kernel from there
• 915[09:32:58] <towo^work> and mesa
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• 917[09:33:31] <Jmabsd> oh!
• 918[09:33:39] <Jmabsd> towo^work: so.. "apt install mesa", and.. newest kernel
• 919[09:33:57] <towo^work> read about how to deal with backports
• 920[09:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1487
• 921[09:34:03] <towo^work> !bpo
• 922[09:34:04] <dpkg> backports.debian.org (formerly backports.org) is an official repository of <backports> for the current stable (see <stretch backports>) and oldstable (<jessie backports>) distributions, prepared by Debian developers. Ask me about <backport caveat> and read replaced-url
• 923[09:34:21] <Jmabsd> towo^work: "apt install linux-image-4.9.0-8-rt-amd64"?
• 924[09:34:40] <towo^work> read the output of dpkg
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• 926[09:35:36] <Jmabsd> towo^work: wait which output of dpkg
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• 929[09:36:25] <Jmabsd> !bdo kernel
• 930[09:36:26] <dpkg> Newer kernels for Debian stable releases are available from the <stretch-backports> repository. After modifying your sources.list, run «aptitude update». To install the current backported kernel: «aptitude -t stretch-backports install linux-image-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'`». To list available backported kernel image packages: «aptitude search '?narrow(~nlinux-image,?origin(Debian Backports))'».
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• 934[09:37:40] <towo^work> Jmabsd, and i'm sure, you do not want an rt-kernel
• 935[09:37:44] <Jmabsd> towo^work: 4.19 is newer than 4.9 right - i see in "-t backports-kernel" that one as the newest
• 936[09:37:56] <Jmabsd> ahh. so "linux-image-4.19.0-0.bpo.1-amd64"
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• 940[09:39:40] <Jmabsd> towo^work: will the magic amdgpu-enabling command then be "apt -t stretch-backports install firmware-amd-graphics"?
• 941[09:39:56] <Jmabsd> er actually "apt -t stretch-backports install firmware-linux firmware-amd-graphics mesa
• 942[09:40:00] <Jmabsd> "
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• 945[09:40:24] <selroc> hello, I have attempted to install amdgpu-pro in debian, it worked with modifications up to version 18.20
• 946[09:40:45] <Jmabsd> selroc: ha ha same question =)
• 947[09:40:59] <selroc> I have modified the install script
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• 949[09:41:33] <selroc> up to version 18.20 it was possible, just substitute "ubuntu" with "debian" in the script
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• 954[09:45:43] <Jmabsd> towo^work: i installed the newer kernel now, and it boots
• 955[09:45:55] <petn-randall> selroc: And do you have a Debian support question about it?
• 956[09:46:18] <Jmabsd> apt -t stretch-backports install firmware-linux firmware-amd-graphics says "firmware-amd-graphics is already the newest version (20180825+dfsg-1~bpo9+1). firmware-linux is already the newest version (20180825+dfsg-1~bpo9+1)." hm.
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• 958[09:48:05] <selroc> no
• 959[09:48:37] <selroc> with version 18.30 it is not possible, there is one more package to unpack/modify/repack
• 960[09:48:47] <selroc> but it fails
• 961[09:49:12] <towo^work> Jmabsd, if you system complain about failures in firmware loading, you can get the newest files from here: replaced-url
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• 963[09:49:32] <towo^work> Jmabsd, copy the needed files to /lib/firmware/amdgpu
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• 965[09:50:09] <petn-randall> selroc: You can ask AMD if they want to support Debian in their scripts. Other than that there's nothing we can do, as it's non-free software.
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• 967[09:50:33] <petn-randall> ,v firmware-amd-graphics
• 968[09:50:34] <judd> Package: firmware-amd-graphics on amd64 -- jessie-backports/non-free: 20161130-3~bpo8+1; stretch/non-free: 20161130-4; stretch-backports/non-free: 20180825+dfsg-1~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 20190114-1; sid/non-free: 20190114-1
• 969[09:50:42] <selroc> I found amdgpu-pro to be unstable and produces the same error over and over "amdgpu_job_timedout". Since then I switched to ROCm ...
• 970[09:51:19] <petn-randall> selroc: That's not surprising, as they don't support Debian as installation OS.
• 971[09:51:26] <Jmabsd> towo^work: is it "vega12/*" ?
• 972[09:51:40] <Jmabsd> ah, /lib/firmware/amdgpu contains vega10* , must be those.
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• 974[09:52:05] <selroc> believe me, I made tests, ROCm is better performance and better support
• 975[09:52:06] <petn-randall> ,checkbackport firmware-amd-graphics
• 976[09:52:07] <judd> Backporting package firmware-amd-graphics in sid→stretch/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using stretch.
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• 979[09:52:58] <selroc> that's not surprising as ROCm is open source !
• 980[09:52:59] <SlidingHorn> is there documentation for the judd & dpkg bots?
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• 982[09:54:33] <petn-randall> SlidingHorn: Unfortunately it's a bit outdated: replaced-url
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• 987[09:56:38] <pagetelegram> smlink.com use to exist with the driver for this: The Intel Corp.82801CA/CAM AC'97 Modem (aka Lucent Technologies Soft Modem AMR) which I need for my panasonic cf-29 laptop.
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• 990[09:57:33] <n4dir> pagetelegram: just curious, did you get anywhere with fbi and similar stuff?
• 991[09:58:35] <pagetelegram> fbi yes....convert tool from imagemagick was also great help in getting closer to main functions. Aim is eventually to setup a fax broadcast system.
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• 993[09:58:46] <pagetelegram> fvb not so much
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• 996[09:59:14] <n4dir> ah, ok, thanks for the info.
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• 1002[10:04:09] <Jmabsd> towo^work: a bit lost
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• 1005[10:04:47] <Jmabsd> petn-randall,judd: oh, "buster" and "sid" have very new amdgpu versions - does this mean i better just reinstall my computer to it?
• 1006[10:05:12] <Jmabsd> replaced-url
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• 1008[10:08:25] <Jmabsd> selroc: do you need to specify any boot arguments to activate the radeon?
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• 1010[10:09:22] <n4dir> usually you can upgrade, no need to re-install. If it is a good idea to run testing/sid or not is a subject of long lasting discussions.
• 1011[10:09:39] <selroc> I just install Debian and ROCm
• 1012[10:09:55] <selroc> no parameters
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• 1017[10:11:30] <Jmabsd> selroc: ROCm = the driver from ATI directly?
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• 1019[10:12:29] <selroc> ROCm is Radeon Open Compute open source driver
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• 1021[10:13:42] <selroc> replaced-url
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• 1026[10:15:47] <Jmabsd> selroc: oh.. and it works, also for Vega 64?
• 1027[10:15:48] <towo^work> Jmabsd, lost in what?
• 1028[10:15:59] <selroc> yes
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• 1030[10:16:01] <towo^work> ROCm is not a display driver
• 1031[10:16:33] <selroc> the name says it: Open Compute
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• 1036[10:20:58] <Jmabsd> selroc,towo^work: will it do OpenCL computations?
• 1037[10:21:04] <Jmabsd> fast?
• 1038[10:21:35] <Jmabsd> cool, it does - i should try it
• 1039[10:22:22] <towo^work> you should 1st fix one problem before opening another
• 1040[10:22:26] <selroc> it is openCL of course
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• 1042[10:22:34] <Jmabsd> selroc: which packages do you install to get it going?
• 1043[10:22:41] <Jmabsd> towo^work: "lspci" doesn't show my gpu, hm
• 1044[10:22:44] <Jmabsd> only the onboard one
• 1045[10:23:00] <towo^work> Jmabsd, is that a notebook?
• 1046[10:23:02] <Jmabsd> towo^work: lost in packages and debian stuff, getting the Vega going is not automatic
• 1047[10:23:07] <Jmabsd> nope, an old Xeon E3 I think
• 1048[10:23:21] <towo^work> Jmabsd, have you deactivated the IGPU in bios?
• 1049[10:23:31] <Jmabsd> IGPU as in onboard GPU?
• 1050[10:23:34] <selroc> replaced-url
• 1051[10:23:35] <towo^work> sure
• 1052[10:23:44] <Jmabsd> i just tried disabling the built in grap graphics, and the computer would make three beeps at boot, weird
• 1053[10:23:50] <Jmabsd> and not start - i'm resetting the cmos memory now
• 1054[10:24:36] <towo^work> and you think software can fix your hardware problems?
• 1055[10:24:47] <Jmabsd> towo^work: what do you mean?
• 1056[10:24:50] <towo^work> if the card is not active, no software would use it
• 1057[10:24:54] <Jmabsd> mhm.
• 1058[10:24:58] <Jmabsd> interesting.
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• 1064[10:25:51] <Jmabsd> towo^work: the motherboard is Asrock E3C226D4I (or E3C226D2I), should support a Vega shouldn't it
• 1065[10:26:17] <towo^work> who knows
• 1066[10:26:24] <selroc> Beware...ROCm requires Gen3 pci slots
• 1067[10:26:34] <towo^work> but with activated onboard graphic, there is no amd card
• 1068[10:26:51] <Jmabsd> selroc: i have that
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• 1071[10:27:07] <Jmabsd> towo^work: aha interesting, so i need to disable the onboard graphics - ok wasn't aware they're exclusive
• 1072[10:27:49] <selroc> interesting. I never disable onboard graphics, no problems, but ifferent mainboard
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• 1086[10:38:12] <Jmabsd> oh dear, after trying some BIOS setting on this Asrock motherboard (e.g. disable onboard graphics), it doesn't turn on - it gave me three beeps once and now on each poweron only the "BMC LED" will blink.
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• 1088[10:38:26] <Jmabsd> i'll keep the CMOS battery out for some while and restart it in half an hour, hopefully that will do.
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• 1090[10:38:54] <Jmabsd> Asrock seems to make a bit sub quality products. This is an old one though.
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• 1092[10:40:32] <Jmabsd> bbl.
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• 1094[10:40:37] <towo^work> Jmabsd, you are sure, you have plugged the card right?
• 1095[10:40:40] <towo^work> grr
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• 1113[10:51:44] <z8z> Which is the best torrent client from the debian free repository?
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• 1115[10:53:38] <towo^work> z8z, the one, which fits your needs
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• 1143[11:07:57] <vlt> tarzeau: Preparing grub.cfg ... If I want to boot Debian 9 with the old kernel from Debian 8 I should still use Debian 9's xen-4.8-amd64.gz in the "multiboot" line (and then "module /deb8/vmlinuz-3.16.0-5-amd64"), not the old xen-4.4-amd64.gz, right?
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• 1147[11:09:50] <vlt> tarzeau: I think that because all the xen tools in Debian 9 (the dom0) expect the new xen 4.8 hypervisor.
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• 1172[11:22:53] <selroc> replaced-url
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• 1202[11:48:03] <siwica> Is there an Emacs major mode that syntax-highlights debian/control files?
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• 1205[11:50:25] <wr> who makes drivers of the wifi card, the manufactureur or the distro?
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• 1207[11:50:40] <wr> both?
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• 1210[11:51:07] <petn-randall> wr: Usually the Linux kernel maintainers.
• 1211[11:51:46] <wr> petn-randall, so the manufactureur of the card doesn't participates on the process?
• 1212[11:52:10] <JustASlacker> they can submit their code to linux
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• 1214[11:52:39] <JustASlacker> some do
• 1215[11:53:09] <JustASlacker> if not, some hacker has to reverse engineer the driver
• 1216[11:53:55] <wr> JustASlacker, but for any distro what process should use to install drivers, get drivers at card site or go for kernel sides?
• 1217[11:54:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1501
• 1218[11:54:18] <JustASlacker> kernel drivers of course
• 1219[11:54:41] <wr> JustASlacker, what happens when use drivers from the manufactureur?
• 1220[11:54:49] <petn-randall> wr: This sounds a lot like a XY problem. Do you have a specific issue with your wifi card?
• 1221[11:54:49] <JustASlacker> its often not allowed to distribute other drivers
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• 1224[11:55:05] <wr> petn-randall, today no
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• 1226[11:55:22] <JustASlacker> you are free to use other drivers as well. the distros may not be allowed to distribute them tho
• 1227[11:55:38] <JustASlacker> like nvidia drivers
• 1228[11:55:39] <wr> petn-randall, just checking out how is it done
• 1229[11:55:54] <JustASlacker> there are open source drivers for nvidia cards in the kernel
• 1230[11:56:04] <JustASlacker> but you can use the binary blob from nvidia as well
• 1231[11:56:18] <wr> petn-randall, it looks like there are a few different options
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• 1234[11:56:34] <petn-randall> wr: Only one option is supported though.
• 1235[11:56:50] <wr> petn-randall, the kernel one
• 1236[11:56:57] <petn-randall> correct
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• 1239[11:57:58] <petn-randall> And it's the only one that will work in 6 months from now. The manufacturer's drivers might compile cleanly today, but I haven't seen any drivers from there getting any actual maintenance.
• 1240[11:58:08] <petn-randall> Meaning, after the initial release they never get updated.
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• 1248[12:05:12] <jelly> that's a bit disingenos, vendor nvidia drivers get newer versions with fixes
• 1249[12:06:07] <jelly> no idea about other vendors
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• 1251[12:06:19] <wr> petn-randall, what vendor gives more issues?
• 1252[12:07:27] <petn-randall> wr: You initially talked about wifi drivers. To my knowledge there's no driver by any wifi manufacturer that is *maintained* on their website.
• 1253[12:07:55] <petn-randall> They're either a good citizen and merge it into the kernel and maintain it there, or they're a bad one and don't maintain it at all.
• 1254[12:07:55] <wr> ok
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• 1256[12:09:11] <shtrb> Is it a bug if after I stop docker and uninstall it that I have still docker0 network interface ?
• 1257[12:09:39] <shtrb> *until reboot
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• 1269[12:15:21] <bites> not a bug. they just don't clean up when shutting down the daemon.
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• 1273[12:19:48] <shtrb> dirty docker, where is the inspection when we need them !
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• 1281[12:23:41] <blackflow> shtrb: careful, you might be fined for using docker, instead!
• 1282[12:25:02] <shtrb> blackflow, for *uninstalling* docker :D
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• 1284[12:26:20] <blackflow> For having used it in the first place.
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• 1291[12:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1509
• 1292[12:35:03] <Jmabsd> what's the URL to the net-installer ISO for testing-debian?
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• 1302[12:38:31] <petn-randall> !testing installer
• 1303[12:38:32] <dpkg> Repeat after me: the testing installer is for testing the <installer>, not for installing <testing>. To install testing, do a minimal installation using the <stable> installer and ask me about <stable->testing>. Installer bugs should be filed against the debian-installer pseudopackage. replaced-url
• 1304[12:38:41] <petn-randall> Jmabsd: The iso is reachable from here ^^^
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• 1306[12:38:59] <Jmabsd> replaced-url
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• 1308[12:39:24] <Jmabsd> petn-randall: cool - *should* the testing distribution work ookay?
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• 1310[12:39:34] <Jmabsd> i thought of using it to just try the latest Radeon drivers
• 1311[12:39:43] <Jmabsd> no worries if it'll totally break later
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• 1314[12:40:18] <petn-randall> Jmabsd: There's zero guaranties. If it were stable, it would have been released.
• 1315[12:40:36] <petn-randall> Jmabsd: Why not use the stable-backports drivers instead?
• 1316[12:41:13] <shtrb> Isn't buster about to lock down really soon ?
• 1317[12:41:26] <Jmabsd> shtrb: I think so
• 1318[12:41:35] <petn-randall> shtrb: It's reached transition freeze on Jan 12, but that's it.
• 1319[12:41:57] <petn-randall> Which just means "please don't migrate libraries after this date".
• 1320[12:42:30] <shtrb> Oh and just recently upstream had implemented something I was waiting for along time :-(
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• 1322[12:42:58] <shtrb> *poppler + okular
• 1323[12:43:02] <towo^work> Jmabsd, as long, as lspci does not show any amd card, the driver doesn't matter
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• 1325[12:43:29] <petn-randall> Jmabsd: Oh, `lspci` doesn't show anything? Then this ^^^
• 1326[12:43:59] <shtrb> lspci may fail because other things
• 1327[12:44:06] <shtrb> it can even lock the entire pc
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• 1329[12:44:35] <Jmabsd> towo^work: I got the computer finally to boot with the Radeon as graphics card!
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• 1331[12:44:59] <Jmabsd> it was a bit scary, i confused the motherboard PWR PIN:s and thereby couldn't get poweron and so thought for a while the computer had broken lol.
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• 1344[12:51:52] <Jmabsd> are there any packages for replaced-url
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• 1348[12:52:18] <HD|Laptop> hello all
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• 1351[12:52:54] <Jmabsd> anyhow since the Radeon also feeds the computer monitor, i should probably just go via the normal AMDGPU drivers.
• 1352[12:52:56] <HD|Laptop> when a system has extremely high load (8-10) but neither iotop nor htop show anything, what else could cause this?
• 1353[12:53:41] <HD|Laptop> CPU load according to htop is < 5% per core (quad-core system)
• 1354[12:53:42] <shtrb> powertop ?
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• 1356[12:53:55] <HD|Laptop> memory load is 1GB used, 7GB free
• 1357[12:54:26] <shtrb> what is "High load" in that case ?
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• 1361[12:55:57] <HD|Laptop> shtrb: load average: 9.71, 8.98, 7.78
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• 1368[13:00:04] <bolt> HD|Laptop: excessive IO would do that. or processes hanging in attempt to access dead devices
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• 1373[13:01:52] <bolt> HD|Laptop: load is a very strange thing. it doesn't necessarily mean your machine is stressed by any means. but it's an indicator that something is going on.
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• 1376[13:02:54] <Fox> HD|Laptop: try dstat
• 1377[13:03:06] <frikinz> Hi. Anyone using a more recent php7 version on debian stable? I'm not into using unofficial stuffs but that 7.0 is really old
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• 1380[13:04:03] <Fox> HD|Laptop: that wikipedia article is quite instructive replaced-url
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• 1382[13:04:34] <HD|Laptop> hmm, excessive io would show up in iotop...
• 1383[13:04:57] <Fox> iotop doesn't show context switching or interupts
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• 1389[13:06:00] <frikinz> !checkbackport php7.3
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• 1392[13:06:27] <frikinz> judd: checkbackport php7.3
• 1393[13:06:33] <judd> Backporting package php7.3 in sid→stretch/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: libpcre2-dev (>= 10.30).
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• 1395[13:07:02] <frikinz> judd: checkbackport libpcre2-dev
• 1396[13:07:03] <judd> Backporting package libpcre2-dev in sid→stretch/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using stretch.
• 1397[13:07:15] <frikinz> humm what's wrong then :)
• 1398[13:07:22] <Fox> frikinz: replaced-url
• 1399[13:07:53] * JustASlacker +1 for replaced-url
• 1400[13:08:11] <murii> Hi, I have a weird problem which maybe someone can help me out with. Yesterday I tried playing a 3D game on Steam, rocket league, but its shaders were really off and weird. Something was off with the graphics. I tried the same game on my macbook which has intel 3000 (my linux machine has 4600) and it worked fine. Is there a software I can install or some package I need to get?
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• 1404[13:09:14] <JustASlacker> your best bet is looking in the steam forum of that game
• 1405[13:10:03] <murii> happens on other 3D games as well
• 1406[13:10:03] <Jmabsd> towo^work: are you still there? i installed Debian Test now, and X starts on the Radeon graphics card - i now like to ensure that OpenCL works, how do?
• 1407[13:10:04] <frikinz> Yeah I see they backported libpcre2 and php. But then why debian team hasn't. Weird
• 1408[13:10:14] <Jmabsd> i need Mesa or that ROCc thing?
• 1409[13:10:45] <frikinz> Oh sury is the debian maintainer
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• 1411[13:13:06] <frikinz> Fox and JustASlacker : thanks!
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• 1417[13:16:15] <frikinz> Oh transition freeze is now?
• 1418[13:16:24] <Jmabsd> ah, apparently AMDGPU is all-open source, but compute parts are proprietary, so you install in Debian the compute packages only, which will work even though they were made for Ubuntu, replaced-url
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• 1426[13:18:02] <opv> hi all, i'm looking for a "dessum" or something, to compute the DES hash of a string. i'm familiar with md5sum, sha256sum etc, but i can't seem to find a package or utility for a DES sum. thanks for your assistance
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• 1435[13:22:48] <Jmabsd> oh, Debian has some package "ocl-icd-opencl-dev", interesting.
• 1436[13:22:52] <Jmabsd> ref replaced-url
• 1437[13:23:20] <frikinz> opv: you could try by using a perl module: replaced-url
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• 1451[13:27:09] <Jmabsd> Nvidia drivers provide "nvidia-smi" to check GPU:s and watt etc. stats, what's AMDGPU's name for the same?
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• 1456[13:33:08] <Jmabsd> interesting that the Radeon OpenCL drivers for Debian are so incredibly difficult to access, not even sure it's doable
• 1457[13:33:35] <Jmabsd> replaced-url
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• 1461[13:36:32] <Jmabsd> replaced-url
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• 1473[13:43:41] <ghoulsblade> hi! any tipps for rtcwake ? for me it messes up the system time and doesnt wake as expected :(
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• 1475[13:44:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1515
• 1476[13:44:36] <ghoulsblade> not sure if i have a shoddy realtime clock or some bios/uefi issue or what the cause could be
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• 1480[13:48:39] <frikinz> So php upgraded from 7.0->7.2 thanks to sury!
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• 1486[13:52:04] <ghoulsblade> irclog last entry 1 week old, is that suppsoed to be up to date daily ?
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• 1491[13:57:10] <jelly> ghoulsblade: yes, which irc logs URL are you looking at?
• 1492[13:58:02] <ghoulsblade> i did msg dpkg irclog and used clicked the link for freenode : replaced-url
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• 1494[13:58:51] <jelly> oh, that looks pretty broken since december 2018
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• 1496[13:58:55] <ghoulsblade> shows a 2018 calendar thats missing most of december and the newest file is 2019-01-13
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• 1498[13:59:28] <ghoulsblade> no xmas for irc logs XD
• 1499[13:59:38] <ghoulsblade> i blame grinch
• 1500[14:01:55] <Jmabsd> replaced-url
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• 1522[14:18:21] <ghoulsblade> rtcwake: bios update seems to have helped, asrock uefi with intel cpu, will see by next week :)
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• 1566[14:52:43] <cxl> Hi, I feel a bit like an idiot but I can't find the answer anywhere... In Debian 9.6, how do I install addgroup, usermod, etc? Which package are these commands in, and how can I find by myself? I tried searching amongst the packages on the debian website but nothing comes up for individual commands.
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• 1571[14:53:50] <jelly> cxl: they're there by default, but you probably don't have /usr/sbin in root's PATH for some reason
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• 1575[14:54:11] <jelly> cxl: open a root shell using "sudo -i" or "su -" and try again there
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• 1577[14:54:40] <Fox> cxl: replaced-url
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• 1579[14:55:01] <Fox> as jelly said that comes by default
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• 1592[15:01:00] <blackflow> speaking of which, what puts /usr/sbin in root's PATH? debootstrap'd debian's root doesn't have it
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• 1597[15:02:36] <blackflow> sorry, I don't mean root's PATH, but unpriv user, I think something in env or skel is missing
• 1598[15:03:01] <FinalX> there's /etc/environment and /etc/login.defs
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• 1608[15:11:07] <cxl> Thank you, /usr/sbin isn't in my path. Is it a good idea to use Buster/testing as my daily driver or is it too immature for that purpose?
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• 1611[15:13:32] <FinalX> if it's not, you probably nuked your PATH environment variable or you kept your own environment as mortal user when using su/sudo to become root
• 1612[15:13:52] <FinalX> the sbin paths are usually added the moment you log in as root (login shell, not just escalated privs)
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• 1628[15:24:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1516
• 1629[15:24:03] <SerajewelKS> blackflow / cxl: sbin should not be in your path unless you are root
• 1630[15:24:24] <cxl> It's basically a bare new install, I did `su` to become root to install sudo, and that's all
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• 1632[15:24:51] <themill> cxl: you want "su -" not "su"
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• 1634[15:25:01] <karlpinc> cxl: You need to "su -" in buster to get $PATH set.
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• 1636[15:26:10] <FinalX> which is the difference I explained earlier
• 1637[15:26:19] <FinalX> login shell vs just escalated privileges, there's a difference
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• 1641[15:27:15] <FinalX> "su -" will give you the login shell, "su"/"su -m"/"su -p"/"su --preserve-environment" will keep your own environment, thus lacking the sbin paths.
• 1642[15:27:52] <FinalX> "su -l" is a synonym of "su -", in case that's easier to remember.
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• 1653[15:38:18] <cxl> Thanks, didn't know the difference :)
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• 1659[15:41:17] <blackflow> SerajewelKS: why not?
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• 1680[15:47:02] <weedloser> What about sudo -i/sudo -s/ sudo su etc..?
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• 1682[15:47:43] <SerajewelKS> blackflow: because those directories contain binaries intended for use by the superuser
• 1683[15:47:54] <SerajewelKS> blackflow: most won't even work when invoked by a normal user
• 1684[15:48:07] <Abdullah> SerajewelKS: how are you today?
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• 1686[15:48:28] <blackflow> SerajewelKS: yeah but that's doesn't mean the _should_ not be in PATH
• 1687[15:48:30] <SerajewelKS> weedloser: "sudo -i" and "su -" both should execute a login shell as root, so those shells should have both sbins in PATH
• 1688[15:48:50] <SerajewelKS> blackflow: i don't know what to tell you, that's been the default for as long as i've been using linux, and debian in particular
• 1689[15:48:55] <SerajewelKS> blackflow: if you don't like it, vi is over there
• 1690[15:49:01] <Abdullah> we were talking about ssh tunnels then I slept.
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• 1692[15:50:06] <blackflow> SerajewelKS: So you don't know :) ok, fair enough.
• 1693[15:50:22] <SerajewelKS> blackflow: i don't know... what?
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• 1698[15:51:49] <blackflow> why sbin _should_ not be in PATH. You know it's been like that always, but you don't really know _why_ it has been like that.
• 1699[15:51:57] <SerajewelKS> i literally just told you why it's like that
• 1700[15:52:09] <SerajewelKS> sbin is for system binaries that aren't useful except to the superuser
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• 1707[15:53:23] <blackflow> SerajewelKS: not really true. for example, zpool and zfs are in there. you can run them unprivileged for listing/informational purposes, but can't change anything.
• 1708[15:53:27] <SerajewelKS> "i don't know what to tell you" is the IRC equivelant of throwing my hands up in the air. because i explained it and yet you continue to argue. so if you want sbin in all users path, make it so on your system.
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• 1710[15:53:58] <SerajewelKS> yes and you can make the same argument about ip. that doesn't mean every user needs them cluttering their PATH.
• 1711[15:54:01] <blackflow> so yeah, plenty of reason why I'd want it in my PATH. just because I can't run many of them (actually I can, even if for their --help), doesn't mean they _should_ not be in PATH
• 1712[15:54:11] <SerajewelKS> okay. so change your system.
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• 1714[15:54:16] <SerajewelKS> i'm telling you why it's the default
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• 1716[15:54:40] <blackflow> guess you don't know what "should" means. and I said okay, fair enough.
• 1717[15:54:47] <SerajewelKS> most users don't need mkfs and fsck and other similar tools in their PATH
• 1718[15:55:00] <SerajewelKS> i know what it means. and sbin should not be in PATH for regular users.
• 1719[15:55:06] <blackflow> that does not mean it _should_ not be.
• 1720[15:55:39] <SerajewelKS> okay. file a bug to have the default changed.
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• 1723[15:56:46] <blackflow> why would I? I can easily change defaults. I was merely asking about your insisting that it _should_ not be in the PATH. _should_ implies recommendation, as if it being in PATH will have bad consequences.
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• 1726[15:57:14] <SerajewelKS> clutter is a consequence
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• 1731[15:59:02] <SerajewelKS> filling up regular users' path with directories of binaries that they mostly can't do anything with is bad, in my opinion
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• 1733[15:59:25] <SerajewelKS> there are some edge cases where they are useful. in addition to the ones you've mentioned, there is ip.
• 1734[15:59:48] <SerajewelKS> that's a better case for those binaries to be moved to bin than it is for sbin to be added to non-root's path
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• 1737[15:59:56] <BCMM> thing is, /sbin/ is frequently useful to non-root users
• 1738[16:00:09] <blackflow> SerajewelKS: there's a non-trivial number of useful ones.
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• 1740[16:00:11] <BCMM> even mkfs is useful when working with images
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• 1742[16:00:27] <blackflow> precisely. there's a lot of informational functionality in there as well.
• 1743[16:00:28] <SerajewelKS> i'm not saying it's never useful
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• 1745[16:00:37] <BCMM> ifconfig is useful in read-only mode (yes, i know ip has replaced it)
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• 1748[16:01:42] <blackflow> clutter is rarely an argument. because PATH is basically like autocomplete. you put something earlier in the PATH and it takes precedence. like that issue with dwarf fortress and df and not using absolute paths :)
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• 1752[16:02:32] <SerajewelKS> so why don't we merge bin and sbin
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• 1756[16:03:44] <blackflow> I'd love if we did. and it wouldn't change one bit except make thing simpler to maintain AND rile up neckbeards who think fixing insufficient disk space with /usr is a dogma nobody in 2019 should question and UsrMerge is abomination. :)
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• 1759[16:04:00] <blackflow> (yes I know UsrMerge is not primarily about bin/sbin but /usr and /)
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• 1768[16:06:48] <blackflow> like, Ubuntu is adding sbins to PATH and the world is not burning, nobody is complaining that they suddenly have easier time finding commadns with tab completion, querying their --help summaries, and using their informational functions without sudo :)
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• 1771[16:06:57] <blackflow> but, I digress... ;)
• 1772[16:07:03] <SerajewelKS> and that's fine
• 1773[16:07:24] <SerajewelKS> (though using ubuntu as an example of good practice is not something i would casually do)
• 1774[16:07:46] <zenpac> Any recommendations on how to run google meet ? ie, browsesr, security etc? Chromium doesn't allow for screensharing native.
• 1775[16:07:57] <blackflow> I was more giving it as an example of Nothing Went Wrong
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• 1777[16:08:29] <jelly> blackflow: when did ubuntu start adding sbins to normal user's PATH?
• 1778[16:08:33] <SerajewelKS> zenpac: doesn't it?
• 1779[16:08:42] <SerajewelKS> zenpac: i use chromium at work and i thought i'd done exactly that...
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• 1781[16:09:00] <squarecircle> ohai
• 1782[16:09:03] <blackflow> jelly: I don't know when, been there for quite some time
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• 1784[16:09:46] <squarecircle> where is the best place to ask questions about user agents and mail transfer agents?
• 1785[16:10:17] <phazon> squarecircle: depends on the question...
• 1786[16:10:17] <JustASlacker> #windows
• 1787[16:11:25] <jelly> squarecircle: if they be running on Debian, ask here and we may point you to a better place if there's one
• 1788[16:11:54] <jelly> eg. there are separate channels for postfix and exim on this irc network
• 1789[16:12:03] <squarecircle> phazon: its about mailing lists, does the ml should be handled by the mta or the ua? - I think the mta should implement the list, not the ua, but the question explicitly asks: "Why does the ml should be handled by the ua?"
• 1790[16:12:08] <squarecircle> nice
• 1791[16:12:17] <jelly> squarecircle: both
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• 1793[16:13:04] <jelly> squarecircle: mailing list software needs integration with a MTA to get mails in for processing, and out for sending to list members
• 1794[16:14:00] <jelly> squarecircle: MUA typically needs filtering features to discern incoming messages from various mailing lists, and filter/file them accordingly
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• 1799[16:15:35] <jelly> squarecircle: where did you find this question?
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• 1801[16:16:44] * Old_Dog from NE TX checking in
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• 1803[16:17:23] <zenpac> SerajewelKS: I can't get "Share Screen" to work at all in my version: chromium 69.0.3497.92-1~deb9u1
• 1804[16:18:04] <jelly> ,v chromium
• 1805[16:18:05] <judd> Package: chromium on amd64 -- wheezy: 37.0.2062.120-1~deb7u1; wheezy-security: 37.0.2062.120-1~deb7u1; jessie: 57.0.2987.98-1~deb8u1; jessie-security: 57.0.2987.98-1~deb8u1; stretch: 69.0.3497.92-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 70.0.3538.110-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 71.0.3578.80-1~deb9u1; buster: 72.0.3626.53-1; sid: 72.0.3626.53-1
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• 1808[16:18:10] <Janni> Hello there.
• 1809[16:18:30] <jelly> zenpac: not that it will hlp things, but you ought to be on 71 by now
• 1810[16:18:56] <jelly> verify you have security.debian.org in sources.list
• 1811[16:19:02] <jelly> !stretch sources.list
• 1812[16:19:02] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Stretch" has three lines: "deb replaced-url
• 1813[16:19:06] <zenpac> jelly: yes, but if I upgrade I lose all ability to map keyboard.. I like my emacs keys.
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• 1815[16:19:47] <zenpac> Both FF and Chromium seem to want to remove all abiilty to customize the keys.
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• 1819[16:20:39] <Janni> I'm considering running mlocate MUCH more often than daily (say once per minute). The reason is that in my everyday handling of files I want to rely more on fuzzy search (fzf) and this can only be really efficient if fzf in turn relies on an index rather than running `find` every single time I use it. Now, my question is simple. What's the most canonical way of running mlocate once per minute, given that there is already a file /etc/cron.daily/mlocate?
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• 1822[16:21:54] <Janni> Actually, forget about fzf here. I might not be making any sense. (I haven't yet thought through how to plug one into the other.)
• 1823[16:22:26] <SerajewelKS> zenpac: i might be mistaken about having done that then, or i have some google extension that makes it work
• 1824[16:22:39] <Janni> (I might just use a regex search on mlocate with the current directory as a prefix.)
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• 1827[16:23:53] <Janni> Maybe something like `ln -s /etc/cron.daily/mlocate /etc/cron.hourly`?
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• 1829[16:24:09] <Janni> And then I actually add a /etc/cron.minutely?
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• 1831[16:25:09] <greycat> ... *plonk*
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• 1835[16:27:20] <phazon> zenpac: alternatively, you could try Jitsi Meet instead; it's FOSS and also allows desktop streaming if one installs their chromium extension
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• 1853[16:36:58] <ws2k3> how is the icngaweb2 vhost linkd to apache2 in debian 9 ? i installed everything but host/icingaweb2/setup shows me a white page
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• 1857[16:40:04] <jmcnaught> Janni: adding an /etc/cron.minutely won't do anything unless you add a corresponding crontab (and anacrontab) entry. Have you confirmed that mlocate always completes in less than 1 minute. Does running once an hour suffice?
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• 1859[16:41:10] <tradar> there is a list of https mirrors for apt?
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• 1871[16:43:23] <jelly> ws2k3: what does apachectl -S say?
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• 1874[16:43:46] <jelly> ws2k3: do you have a separate virtualhost for icinga?
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• 1883[16:46:45] <petn-randall> ws2k3: Look at /etc/apache2/conf-available/icingaweb2.conf, you need to enable that. Are you friendlyguy from #Icinga? They just asked the same question two hours ago.
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• 1886[16:48:19] <jelly> and if they are, does that mean you have to stop being friendly to come to #debian
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• 1898[16:56:34] <squarecircle> jelly: thank you
• 1899[16:56:36] <squarecircle> jelly: :P
• 1900[16:56:39] <squarecircle> hm
• 1901[16:56:42] <squarecircle> :) I meant
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• 1925[17:08:45] <ansyeb> hello. how it that possible? replaced-url
• 1926[17:08:53] <ansyeb> what is on 22001?
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• 1931[17:10:12] <SerajewelKS> ansyeb: could be a requested -R forward?
• 1932[17:10:19] <jelly> ansyeb: sshd_config may have been changed since sshd was started. Also, that looks like an Ubuntu system.
• 1933[17:10:33] <ansyeb> it is ubuntu. I am asking everywhere
• 1934[17:10:36] <ansyeb> dont understand what is going on
• 1935[17:10:49] <ansyeb> but if I systemctl restart sshd
• 1936[17:10:50] <jelly> oh right, different process
• 1937[17:10:53] <ansyeb> it is up yet again
• 1938[17:11:15] <SerajewelKS> ansyeb: almost certainly a -R forward from one of your users
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• 1940[17:11:19] <ansyeb> @SerajewelKS, I didnt understand, sorry
• 1941[17:11:27] <greycat> *plonk*
• 1942[17:11:31] <jelly> ansyeb: best ask in #ubuntu-server or #ubuntu
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• 1944[17:11:50] <ansyeb> already did. they didnt answer
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• 1946[17:11:58] <jelly> or ##Linux
• 1947[17:11:58] <ansyeb> link to a manual pls?
• 1948[17:12:01] <ansyeb> as well
• 1949[17:12:05] <ansyeb> last one I came to was this
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• 1952[17:12:22] <jelly> ansyeb: please respect our choice to help Debian users.
• 1953[17:12:30] <ansyeb> lol
• 1954[17:12:40] <SerajewelKS> !ubuntu
• 1955[17:12:40] <dpkg> Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on chat.freenode.net instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
• 1956[17:12:43] <ansyeb> I am a debian user) but this server OS was not my choice
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• 1958[17:13:07] <jelly> anyone present in here is free to join ##Linux or #ubuntu-server or any other channel and provide help over there
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• 1960[17:13:47] <jelly> but please keep this channel free for stuff that actually happens on a Debian system
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• 1964[17:14:27] <SerajewelKS> last thing i'll say about it is that the ssh version reported when you telnet to each differs, which is further evidence that it's a tunnel created with ssh -R
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• 1968[17:15:36] <jelly> ansyeb: fwiw I do not see your question in #ubuntu-server in the last 24 hours, you might want to repeat it
• 1969[17:15:59] <ansyeb> ok
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• 1982[17:27:15] <jelly> ansyeb: what does "ps -fp 1973" say?
• 1983[17:27:33] <jelly> (substitute current PID if it changed)
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• 1985[17:28:37] <jelly> it might be interesting to see what is its parent process
• 1986[17:28:50] <jelly> that might confirm the -R theory
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• 1991[17:30:55] <jelly> but it is somewhat unusual for a sshd process with a -R listener socket open to be running as root
• 1992[17:31:06] <jelly> oops, wrong channel
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• 2093[18:30:19] <dysfigured> Janni: you can use ag or rg instead of the default find. ag -l to list files works really well since it uses ./.gitignore and ~/.agignore
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• 2148[18:53:33] <Janni> How do I remove a substring from some input if I don't know what that substring might be? sed s/^`pwd`// for instance is not good enough as there are slashes in `pwd`.
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• 2154[18:56:02] <n4dir> Janni: parameter expansion comes to mind. Not too sure.
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• 2158[18:56:49] <n4dir> replaced-url
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• 2161[18:58:06] <greycat> FAQ 73 is written as a reference, FAQ 100 as a tutorial
• 2162[18:58:43] <Janni> Thanks guys.
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• 2165[18:59:05] <Janni> (even though I'm not sure yet, whether I'll find my answer there)
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• 2169[18:59:48] <joepublic> Janni, if you want to do it wrong-but-maybe-close-enough, know that sed will take almost any character instead of a slash. like a comma.
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• 2171[19:00:37] <Janni> joepublic: Right, that might actually be sufficient in my case. I'll have a look at parameter expansion none the less. Can't hurt to know about it.
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• 2174[19:01:01] <Janni> s,none\ the\ less,nonetheless,
• 2175[19:01:03] <joepublic> Very true. Use case matters; for one-offs where you can predict the input, "wrong" sometimes is fine.
• 2176[19:01:09] <joepublic> janni: yep
• 2177[19:02:00] <joepublic> usually for specifically replacing slash, for some reason I use #: 's#ac/dc#ac-dc#g'
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• 2189[19:06:44] <Janni> I'm writing a little script to quickly locate file in the current directory and all its subdirectories. What I have so far: locate -r ^`pwd`/ | sed s#^`pwd`/## | fzf
• 2190[19:07:26] <Janni> I'm not to happy with that. I've tried parameter expansion, but its much slower.
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• 2193[19:09:16] <dysfigured> yeah idk, i use ag for this kinda thing and it's stupid fast
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• 2197[19:10:16] <Janni> dysfigure: ag=agrep?
• 2198[19:10:28] <Janni> silversearcher-ag I suppose.
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• 2205[19:15:15] <Janni> In fact ag -g . is much faster than locate -r ^`pwd`.
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• 2217[19:22:20] <bolt> Janni: what's wrong with find?
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• 2220[19:24:18] <diogenes_> locate is annoying because on any minor change you need to run updatedb
• 2221[19:24:38] <Janni> bolt: Too slow. In fact fzf on its own does launch a find, but it might take a couple of seconds. I thought using something based on an index like mlocate might speed up things, but apparently this is not a use case it is adapted to.
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• 2224[19:25:20] <bolt> find is lightning quick for me, as soon as there's a disk cache, which is after the first run
• 2225[19:25:21] <Janni> diogenes: In principle you could have a cron job that is launched every minute, as it only takes a couple of milliseconds to finish (if nothing much has changed).
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• 2227[19:25:52] <Janni> Anyway, have to go. Bye!
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• 2230[19:26:00] <bolt> depends on the usecase though. i understand that it would be slow with an astronomical amount of files
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• 2234[19:27:19] <n4dir> gotta admit that i don't really understand what the above locate-sed-fzf pipe is searching for ...
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• 2236[19:28:10] <dysfigured> n4dir: iinm, it lists all files and shows them in fzf
• 2237[19:28:42] <n4dir> oh, then i did know. so only lack of knowing about fzf is my problem. But thanks, dysfigured
• 2238[19:28:55] <dysfigured> fzf is an interactive line filter, similar to dmenu but for terminal
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• 2240[19:29:17] <expert975> I've changed the clock of the sound device in alsamixer from 44100 to internal clock, now the device seems to be gone. What can I do to fix this problem?
• 2241[19:30:54] <expert975> The device is now missing from /proc/asound/modules, I've tried 'modprobe snd_ice1724' without success
• 2242[19:32:30] <expert975> Would this be a configuration problem on alsa or on the card itself?
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• 2244[19:33:50] <SerajewelKS> expert975: modprobe won't do anything if the module is already loaded. if you're trying to effectively restart the device/driver, you probably need to 'modprobe -r snd_ice1724' first.
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• 2246[19:35:22] <expert975> SerajewelKS: Restarting the device did't seem to change anything
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• 2254[19:39:41] <LtL> expert975: you might look into alsactl options, 'alsactl -h'
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• 2258[19:41:22] <LtL> expert975: /usr/sbin/alsactl -h
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• 2260[19:42:29] <expert975> Ltl: should I be looking for anything in particular? The device is no longer listed in alsamixer
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• 2262[19:42:42] <expert975> *LtL
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• 2264[19:43:14] <LtL> expert975: i can't say without studying it myself, never happened to me. i'll look
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• 2269[19:44:37] <LtL> !alsa
• 2270[19:44:37] <dpkg> Advanced Linux Sound Architecture (ALSA) is a Linux kernel component providing device drivers for sound cards. Ask me about <install alsa>. See also <alsa-checklist>, <default alsa>, <alsa firmware>. replaced-url
• 2271[19:44:47] <expert975> LtL: 'sudo alsactl init 0' says it could not find the device
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• 2273[19:45:37] <LtL> expert975: look into the nrestore command, it scans for devices
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• 2276[19:47:19] <expert975> LtL: 'sudo alsactl nrestore' doesn't say anything. If I specify 0 as the device it says it cannot find it
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• 2282[19:48:33] <LtL> expert975: use -d for debug or -v for verbose, might give you hint.
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• 2286[19:50:13] <LtL> expert975: run journalctl -xn after the command, it may give you hints as to what failed
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• 2292[19:53:08] <expert975> LtL: running 'sudo alsactl -d nrestore' says only about my second audio device. Nothing other than pam messages on journalctl
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• 2294[19:53:37] <LtL> expert975: list your devices with, cat /proc/asound/cards
• 2295[19:54:13] <expert975> LtL: It lists only my second sound card
• 2296[19:54:26] <expert975> LtL: it's looking like the card were unplugged, spooky
• 2297[19:54:35] <amvodf> I am interested in creating a guest user in my computer. I did the following: sudo adduser --no-create-home --disabled-password guest
• 2298[19:54:48] <LtL> expert975: thats bad, try a reboot, or logout
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• 2300[19:54:57] <expert975> LtL: I just did
• 2301[19:54:59] <amvodf> then when I log from lightdm, it doesn't work
• 2302[19:55:19] <amvodf> however I can use su in the terminal
• 2303[19:55:41] <expert975> LtL: I remember this happening once in the past. I think what fixed it was an update or something
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• 2305[19:56:24] <amvodf> to switch into the guest user that I created. I also tried sudo passwd -d guest to delete the supposed password of user of guest. But I think it has something to do with lightdm
• 2306[19:56:24] <expert975> amvodf: any reason for not creating a home?
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• 2312[19:58:49] <expert975> LtL: I'll see if the card works in a live cd, be right back
• 2313[19:58:58] <LtL> expert975: okay
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• 2315[19:59:26] <amvodf> expert975, I guess I could go ahead to create a home directory for guest. I just wanted to limit what guest could do, but I think maybe not providing a home directory for guest user is taking things a bit too far.
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• 2318[20:00:56] <pagetelegram> which linux-headers* has the header file 'modversions.h' ? trying to compile an old modem driver.
• 2319[20:02:19] <friendofafriend> pagetelegram: What kernel are you running?
• 2320[20:02:23] <amvodf> I think initially I wanted the guest user to just be allowed to browse the Internet.
• 2321[20:02:51] <amvodf> I also tried implementing this: replaced-url
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• 2323[20:04:04] <pagetelegram> 4.9.0-8-686-pae
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• 2332[20:06:30] <phazon> pagetelegram: so it would be linux-headers-4.9.0-8-686-pae
• 2333[20:07:17] <phazon> that particular header is in include/config/ sub-directory
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• 2338[20:07:43] <pagetelegram> thanks
• 2339[20:07:45] <phazon> /usr/src/linux-headers-4.9.0-8-686-pae/include/config/modversions.h
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• 2350[20:12:50] <phazon> pagetelegram: you can use replaced-url
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• 2353[20:13:08] <phazon> e.g.: replaced-url
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• 2358[20:15:00] <expert975> LtL: The device does not show up on the live cd :(
• 2359[20:15:10] <expert975> LtL: That looks bad
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• 2384[20:29:38] <karlpinc> !apt-file
• 2385[20:29:39] <dpkg> apt-file is a utility used to find which package owns a given file - or list files in a package - even if it is not installed: "aptitude install apt-file && apt-file update" ; then "apt-file search filename" to see a list of packages containing filename (can also use a regular expression; see man apt-file). You can also search online, ask me about <pdo>. See also <judd-file>, <auto-apt>, <dlocate>.
• 2386[20:29:42] <expert975> LtL: could it be that my card is now ruined by changing a config in alsamixer?
• 2387[20:30:01] <karlpinc> expert975: Very very unlikely.
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• 2390[20:30:52] <LtL> expert975: i didn't mean to abandon you, i got rerailed here.
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• 2392[20:31:03] <LtL> *derailed
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• 2394[20:31:13] <expert975> karlpinc: then could the card be storing this clock setting and failing to initialize?
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• 2401[20:33:13] <expert975> I've powered off the system, so is it able to store configs in some persistent memory? Maybe volatile memory on capacitors?
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• 2405[20:36:22] <lishevita> hello all
• 2406[20:37:54] <Abdullah> hello
• 2407[20:38:17] <LtL> expert975: run alsamixer and press F6, also try aplay -l to list devices
• 2408[20:38:32] <LtL> expert975: those two things
• 2409[20:39:16] <expert975> LtL: alsamixer F6 no longer lists the device. aplay -l only shows my other sound device
• 2410[20:39:36] *** Joins: srgg (~srgg@replaced-ip)
• 2411[20:39:38] <booyah> PSA: critical bug, all Debians are compromised. "tl;dr I found a vulnerability in apt that allows a network man-in-the-middle (or a malicious package mirror) to execute arbitrary code as root on a machine installing any package." - replaced-url
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• 2413[20:40:25] <Sinewpy> 0/0
• 2414[20:40:29] <greycat> Is that fixed by today's new apt packages?
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• 2417[20:41:55] <blackflow> yup
• 2418[20:42:17] <LtL> expert975: how did you lose this device again?
• 2419[20:42:37] <blackflow> however, it's not about arbitrary code exec. packages are still verified for signature.
• 2420[20:42:43] <expert975> LtL: I've changed the device clock from 44100 to internal in alsamixer
• 2421[20:42:45] <SlidingHorn> booyah: already patched, as stated in the article.
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• 2424[20:45:18] <joepublic> Are the myriad debian-derived distros vulnerable, is the question many should be asking, imo
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• 2428[20:46:30] <SlidingHorn> joepublic: any distro that uses apt and doesn't ship with apt over https by default would possibly be affected
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• 2430[20:47:09] <LtL> expert975: i honestly don't know what you can do that isn't risky
• 2431[20:47:31] <expert975> LtL: I'm willing to consider the risky
• 2432[20:47:32] <joepublic> ltl, air-gap used to be the gold standard, until floppy disks and usb sticks were considered.
• 2433[20:47:48] <booyah> SlidingHorn: so, was it possible to install packages or not?
• 2434[20:48:06] <booyah> was the GPG signature required anyway from debian project
• 2435[20:48:40] <joepublic> I remember reading about a russian military supercomputer isolated from all networks for nuclear security reasons that its operators connected to internet to mine whatevercoin a few months back.
• 2436[20:49:18] <petn-randall> SlidingHorn: Even apt over HTTPS is affected. I don't know why you assume that is magically secure.
• 2437[20:49:25] <joepublic> If I had a russian military supercomputer, I might have done the same thing, though, especially if it could run GNU/Linux
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• 2439[20:50:14] <booyah> petn-randall: so it was in fact possible to bypass the checking of GPG signature in this attack right?
• 2440[20:50:32] <Abdullah> isn't rsync in debian repos supported guys?
• 2441[20:50:37] *** Joins: izh_ (~denis@replaced-ip)
• 2442[20:50:54] <Abdullah> and is that faster than http or https?
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• 2444[20:51:52] <joepublic> http is faster than https; rsync, going over ssh, generally is about as fast as https
• 2445[20:52:17] <joepublic> I should say "is ever so slightly faster than"
• 2446[20:53:02] <LtL> expert975: try re-starting pulse, 'pulseaudio --kill ; pulseaudio --start'
• 2447[20:53:18] <expert975> LtL: I've done that
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• 2449[20:53:24] <blackflow> with today's hardware, any encryption overhead is probably mitigated by the CPU in time before the disks write the received block so I doubt http is faster than https, except the initial 4-way handshake.
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• 2459[20:55:11] <ryouma> Abdullah: rsync does not copy over stuff already copied
• 2460[20:55:24] <ryouma> oh in repos
• 2461[20:55:27] <LtL> expert975: from the debian.wiki, 'rm -r ~/.config/pulse /tmp/pulse-*' then kill and start pulse again.
• 2462[20:56:23] <LtL> expert975: if the device doesnt show in aplay -l -or- lspci i dunno what to do
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• 2464[20:57:26] <Abdullah> if that's problem on first installation, just install pavucontrol and unmute. for pulse
• 2465[20:57:39] <Abdullah> expert975: ^^
• 2466[20:58:27] <LtL> Abdullah: his device disappeared after a setting in alsamixer went south
• 2467[20:58:37] <expert975> Abdullah: it seems there's no device for pulseaudio to capture, so no luck there
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• 2469[20:59:16] <LtL> expert975: does lspci [if applicable] show the device?
• 2470[20:59:16] <Abdullah> # pulseaudio -D --system
• 2471[20:59:22] <ryouma> is it any safer for that apt bug to use http+tor vs. http (or less safe)?
• 2472[21:00:13] <joepublic> with tor, if you have men in the middle, that means it's working. sounds safe.
• 2473[21:01:15] <booyah> I wish distros would update some double-check mentality
• 2474[21:01:29] <booyah> like to have two separate programs checking if packages is gpg signed, before install
• 2475[21:01:37] <booyah> to avoid such massive fuckups in security
• 2476[21:01:46] <expert975> LtL: lspci DOES list the device
• 2477[21:02:25] <LtL> expert975: does the appropriate module still appear in 'lsmod'
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• 2479[21:02:33] <ryouma> https did not work for me, as i think a lot of repos don'tuse it
• 2480[21:02:53] <SlidingHorn> petn-randall: I'm not saying it is magically secure. In terms of what I said regarding apt over https, I must have misread when I skimmed over the article earlier this morning, as I *thought* the author had mentioned it being a measure of prevention.
• 2481[21:02:57] <LtL> expert975: lspci -nn for the hex id
• 2482[21:03:04] <expert975> LtL: Yes, it does: snd_ice1724
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• 2484[21:03:20] <LtL> expert975: man, i'm out of ideas.
• 2485[21:03:42] <ryouma> SlidingHorn: the article does seem to say that https is safer, contrary to a common opinion
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• 2490[21:04:50] <LtL> expert975: you could try 'modprode -r snd_ice1724 ; modprode snd_ice1724'
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• 2493[21:05:10] <LtL> expert975: i doubt that'll help, never know
• 2494[21:05:36] <expert975> LtL: 'modprobe', right?
• 2495[21:05:42] <LtL> right
• 2496[21:05:47] <LtL> sorry
• 2497[21:06:02] <expert975> LtL: I've done that already
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• 2499[21:06:37] <LtL> expert975: next to a alsa re-install, i give up.
• 2500[21:07:03] <expert975> LtL: what's the package I could reinstall?
• 2501[21:07:18] *** Quits: kein31 (~root@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 2502[21:07:32] <LtL> alsa-base alsa-utils expert975
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• 2512[21:09:45] <ryouma> just found out htat bug applies to apt, the binary, not apt, the system. thus, apt-get and aptitude do not have the bug presumably
• 2513[21:09:46] <expert975> LtL: is alsa-base really a package?
• 2514[21:10:07] <LtL> expert975: yes
• 2515[21:10:17] <ryouma> so really, you could work around it by not running apt
• 2516[21:10:44] <expert975> LtL: "E: Package 'alsa-base' has no installation candidate"
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• 2520[21:10:58] <greycat> ryouma: I seriously doubt this is a correct statement
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• 2523[21:11:26] <ryouma> hmm, the email he pointed to, and his blog, contradict. his title includes apt-get. the email he pointed to talks aobut apt only.
• 2524[21:11:45] <ryouma> so i guess iha veto figure out this redirect thingie
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• 2529[21:13:14] <LtL> expert975: its installed on my system, try alsa-utils alone
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• 2535[21:16:21] <expert975> LtL: I've purged and installed alsa-utils
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• 2542[21:18:06] <zleap> hi
• 2543[21:18:09] <ryouma> i think failure to distinguish between the binary called apt and the system called apt in this case is a little problematic. the lts says nothing about apt-get or aptitude, just apt
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• 2550[21:19:22] <zleap> hello candle24
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• 2552[21:21:53] <LtL> expert975: create a new user 'adduser' if that user works it's a config problem.
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• 2554[21:24:03] <pagetelegram> can't get past this: kernel-ver.c:9:34: fatal error: generated/utsrelease.h ' when trying to compile a modem driver
• 2555[21:24:27] <expert975> LtL: I've tried a new system, but sure
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• 2557[21:24:58] <expert975> LtL: I can simply use an existent user, right?
• 2558[21:25:22] <pagetelegram> I've put utsrelease.h in the dir I point the Makefile to
• 2559[21:25:28] <joepublic> if you create a new user, that new user will get a fresh configuration
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• 2561[21:26:42] <zleap> candle24: you should be able to chat now,
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• 2564[21:28:22] <expert975> LtL: the new user doesn't see the device in alsamixer
• 2565[21:28:40] <zleap> expert975: you may need to be part of the group for alsamixer
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• 2568[21:29:29] <LtL> expert975: type groups is audio there
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• 2571[21:31:12] <candle24> Hi! I am trying to install a windows dualboot but it seems like the grub cant load the bootmgr file, do you have any suggestions as to why that could be?
• 2572[21:31:59] <zleap> is there an error message?
• 2573[21:32:03] <expert975> zleap: adding newuser to audio group didn't change alsamixer audio device list
• 2574[21:32:16] <zleap> expert975: log back in to the user again
• 2575[21:32:28] <zleap> so logout then back in as that user
• 2576[21:32:49] <expert975> zleap: I've added the user to the group before logging on it
• 2577[21:33:06] <zleap> ah ok
• 2578[21:33:36] <LtL> expert975: last guess run alsactl init as root
• 2579[21:35:00] *** Quits: Codier (~user@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2580[21:36:07] <expert975> LtL: it finds only the other sound card.
• 2581[21:36:45] <LtL> expert975: also # systemctl restart alsa-state.service
• 2582[21:37:04] <expert975> LtL: that's not running
• 2583[21:37:17] <LtL> expert975: start it
• 2584[21:37:26] *** Quits: Guest92016 (~iulian@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2585[21:37:37] <LtL> then journalctl -xn expert975
• 2586[21:37:37] <expert975> LtL: "ConditionPathExists=/etc/alsa/state-daemon.conf was not met"
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• 2588[21:38:40] <amvodf> What's the recommendation for creating a temporary user for a guest?
• 2589[21:38:44] <expert975> LtL: "Condition check resulted in Manage Sound Card State (restore and store) being skipped."
• 2590[21:38:45] <LtL> expert975: i don't have that path/file
• 2591[21:38:50] <KOLANICH> Hi everybody; why isn't gnupg1-curl available in stretch?
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• 2593[21:39:32] <expert975> amvodf: I usually simply create a regular user
• 2594[21:39:36] <LtL> expert975: # systemctl restart alsa-restart.service
• 2595[21:39:41] <LtL> wait
• 2596[21:39:44] <amvodf> expert975, even with the password?
• 2597[21:39:45] *** Quits: mavhc (~mavhc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2598[21:39:51] <expert975> amvodf: Yes
• 2599[21:40:02] <LtL> expert975: # systemctl restart alsa-restore.service
• 2600[21:40:26] <expert975> LtL: same thing
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• 2610[21:43:00] <LtL> expert975: i am out of ideas
• 2611[21:43:24] <zleap> have you tried just rebooting?
• 2612[21:43:27] <ryouma> for this upgrade of apt, is it ok to do apt-get -o Acquire::http::AllowRedirect=false {update,upgrade}? or must one use apt(1)?
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• 2614[21:43:38] <expert975> zleap: I have
• 2615[21:43:41] <zleap> ok
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• 2618[21:44:14] <expert975> LtL: I think the card hardware remembers the setting, since it behaved the same way on the live system
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• 2624[21:45:43] <LtL> expert975: there are files in ~/.config/pulse but i'm not sure they will re-populate, i would think they would.
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• 2646[21:55:22] <pagetelegram> I went to send my modem as new case for scanModem tool email DISCUSS@linmodems.org
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• 2652[21:59:42] <expert975> LtL: I took out the card, shorted all capacitors and now it works O.o
• 2653[21:59:53] <expert975> LtL: I guess we will have to sleep on that one
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• 2655[22:00:28] <LtL> expert975: frankly i was tempted to say 'yank the card' but didn't. glad it works
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• 2659[22:01:21] <LtL> expert975: you fubar'd the firmware eprom, waiting woulda worked too after pulling it. probably
• 2660[22:01:59] <joepublic> +1 "shorted all the capacitors"
• 2661[22:02:01] <expert975> LtL: but eprom is not volatile, right?
• 2662[22:02:07] <expert975> joepublic: hahaha
• 2663[22:02:24] <ryouma> kinda makes you seem badass
• 2664[22:02:36] <expert975> ryouma: that's how I roll
• 2665[22:03:03] <LtL> expert975: maybe not but capacitors lose voltage in time
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• 2667[22:03:45] <joepublic> Certainly puts you on a level above the average user.
• 2668[22:03:53] <expert975> LtL: if the card uses non volatile memory to store config, it wouldn't need to be powered to retain its data
• 2669[22:04:17] <LtL> expert975: that makes sense, congrats
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• 2672[22:05:30] <expert975> LtL: now I must cause the problem once again, BRB
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• 2694[22:17:08] <candle24> Im trying to install a dualboot windows but I cant get grub to launch the windows bootmgr. I can provide more information im just not sure which are relevant to the issue.
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• 2702[22:20:49] <BCMM> candle24: did update-grub detect your Windows install? if so, what happens when you select that menu entry?
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• 2704[22:22:13] <candle24> it did, when I select the windows option it just blank screens and tells me that there is nothing bootable in there
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• 2706[22:24:04] <zleap> i normally install to the mbr
• 2707[22:24:04] <candle24> I tried putting the windows iso on a usb drive and on a different partition on my disk and neither worked
• 2708[22:24:22] <zleap> it is easy to make an error and not have it install anything to boot the system
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• 2714[22:29:06] <LtL> candle24: i just came in on this but have you tries 'os-prober'?
• 2715[22:29:37] <LtL> *tried i'm way past alotted typo's today. which is 0
• 2716[22:29:40] <storrgie> I'm on an install of debian where I have installed gnome-core, it's pure intel graphics, I'd expect it to boot by default to wayland but it appears to be doing everything in X11? should I be searching for a missing package?
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• 2718[22:30:09] <BCMM> candle24: what do you mean by "putting the windows iso on a usb drive"? people often refer to something which doesn't work when they say that...
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• 2722[22:30:49] <BCMM> candle24: also, what were you trying to do with the windows installer? reinstall the bootloader?
• 2723[22:31:18] <candle24> LtL it says the following (its a short paste so I hope its within the limits of the rules) /dev/sda4:Windows Recovery Environment:Windows:chain
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• 2725[22:31:25] <BCMM> oh, and are you doing UEFI boot or BIOS/MBR/"legacy" boot?
• 2726[22:31:27] <LtL> storrgie: try installing task-gnome-desktop which is all of gnome.
• 2727[22:31:43] <storrgie> LtL, I don't want to do that, thats a very heavy metapackage
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• 2729[22:31:54] <LtL> storrgie: indeed it is.
• 2730[22:32:25] <storrgie> for whatever reason it looks like gdm is starting as an X11 session, which it shouldnt be, there has to be a missing package
• 2731[22:33:23] <candle24> BCMM formated the usb to the correct format with bootflags and all, copied contents of the iso on there and ran it through ms-sys
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• 2733[22:34:25] <candle24> BCMM I am trying to install windows on my fourth disk partition
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• 2735[22:35:09] <BCMM> candle24: well hang on, are you trying to install windows, or boot the existing windows installation on your hard drive?
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• 2737[22:35:39] <candle24> install windows
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• 2739[22:35:52] <BCMM> LtL: that's more than just gnome. the -desktop tasks are for basically a full out-of-the-box office workstation, with things like libreoffice and firefox
• 2740[22:36:39] <BCMM> it's "gnome" (as opposed to gnome-core) to get a full gnome environment
• 2741[22:37:11] <BCMM> candle24: is there some special reason you want to boot the windows installer through grub? is this an embedded system with weird firmware?
• 2742[22:37:32] <BCMM> candle24: usually, people just boot the windows installer directly using their bios/uefi settings
• 2743[22:38:05] <BCMM> (and use grub later, to boot the windows installation from their hard drive)
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• 2745[22:38:28] <candle24> BCMM I cant get the UEFI to recognize the usb stick, and whenever I try to boot legacy from the USB it just tells me that there is nothing to boot
• 2746[22:38:28] <storrgie> LtL, actually this is awesome, I have two machines that apparently have the same packages on them... just diffed `apt list --installed` on both of them. One of them starts with gdm in X11, the other does everything with wayland
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• 2748[22:38:56] <BCMM> candle24: it sounds like you haven't prepared the USB stick properly, then. do you have another Windows machine available?
• 2749[22:39:03] <zleap> candle24: you may need to disable ufei in bios
• 2750[22:39:19] <candle24> I have tried both legacy and UEFI and neither work
• 2751[22:39:21] <BCMM> zleap: that sentence is just... not how any of this works
• 2752[22:39:33] <zleap> ok
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• 2754[22:40:23] <candle24> im fairly new to this so correct me if I say anything misinformed
• 2755[22:40:29] <joepublic> "enable legacy boot in uefi formerly known as bios"
• 2756[22:41:04] <BCMM> candle24: have a look at replaced-url
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• 2758[22:41:21] <LtL> candle24: be sure 'secure boot' is off in bios. just a tip.
• 2759[22:41:42] <candle24> LtL my bios doesnt let me use legacy without turning off secure
• 2760[22:41:53] <BCMM> candle24: alternatively, if you have another Windows machine available, you can use the official microsoft method replaced-url
• 2761[22:41:54] <LtL> okay
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• 2766[22:42:47] <candle24> I do not have a windows machine, I will try to give the woeusb a go
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• 2771[22:43:36] <LtL> storrgie: i believe there were changes instituted in that regard between jessie to stretch fwiw
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• 2777[22:45:22] <bhundven> Well, I tried to go to #debian-next, but that seems to redirect here. I was going to mention that libreoffice-common 1:6.1.5~rc1-1 is missing from sid.
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• 2780[22:45:50] <greycat> "it means you didn't read that it's on OFTC"
• 2781[22:45:52] <storrgie> LtL, both were installed within a couple days of eachother, and the changes should be going towards wayland not back towards X11
• 2782[22:45:59] <bhundven> derp, ok
• 2783[22:46:27] <bhundven> I'll go there.
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• 2785[22:46:46] <candle24> can windows install itself on an already existing partition or will I need to delete it and let the installer create it again
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• 2788[22:47:22] <BCMM> storrgie: do the machines have the same graphics cards?
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• 2790[22:47:50] <LtL> storrgie: this box is a dist-upgrade and yes it went Wayland.
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• 2792[22:48:14] <Sinewpy> /who
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• 2795[22:48:50] <BCMM> candle24: iirc it'll just warn you that the partition's contents will get erased and so on
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• 2797[22:48:57] <BCMM> but it was a while since i checked
• 2798[22:49:26] <BCMM> (this is kind of offtopic, but you can't ask ##windows because they have a huge, weird things against dual-booting, so whatever)
• 2799[22:49:58] <candle24> my first boot is debian :^)
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• 2803[22:54:06] <jhutchins_wk> candle24: You usually don't copy the ISO to a filesystem, you "burn" it to the drive and it becomes the filesystem.
• 2804[22:54:11] <karlpinc> I've got it in my head that installing a new libc6 package will restart some daemons. But I've looked at the glibc package and can't figure out how it is done. Any thoughts?
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• 2806[22:55:03] <candle24> jhutchins_wk that was the case for linux installs but as far as I understand windows doesnt work like that
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• 2809[22:55:36] <karlpinc> candle24: MS Windows often wants to take an entire disk when installed. It is generally recommended to install MS Windows first for this reason, then "do stuff" to get debian/whatever else installed.
• 2810[22:55:49] <candle24> I even tried dd if= of= on the usb stick and it didnt work
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• 2812[22:56:25] <karlpinc> candle24: I believe the Debian install guide recommends dd to put install images on usb sticks....
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• 2815[22:57:24] <candle24> does it?
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• 2818[22:58:58] <OerHeks> && sync
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• 2843[23:06:17] <whislock> The Debian documentation recommends simply using cp.
• 2844[23:06:48] <whislock> cp file.iso /dev/sdx
• 2845[23:06:52] <whislock> Quite simple.
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• 2890[23:35:55] <candle24> im having issues installing the libwxgtk3.0-dev package does anyone know what could cause this?
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• 2892[23:36:44] <rwp> karlpinc, AFAIK it is in /var/lib/dpkg/info/libc6:amd64.postinst where services are restarted.
• 2893[23:36:47] <SlidingHorn> candle24: not without knowing what you're doing to install it, what errors you get, and (ideally) the exact version of debian you're using
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• 2899[23:39:34] <candle24> SlidingHorn: using stretch apt tells me it depends on libkl1-mesa-dev, but installing that package gives me unmet dependencies error and broken packages error
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• 2903[23:41:57] <SlidingHorn> candle24: Usually this happens when you have third-party repositories enabled, or you have somehow created a "FrankenDebian" by using repos for multiple releases
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• 2905[23:42:37] <candle24> SlidingHorn: could it be caused by proprietary nvidia drivers?
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• 2908[23:43:53] <blackflow> candle24: perhaps pastebin the full, actual error you have?
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• 2911[23:46:39] <candle24> blackflow: sorry im new to this, should have done it in the first place replaced-url
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• 2915[23:50:31] <blackflow> candle24: seems like you have a mixture of dependencies from backports in there somewhere
• 2916[23:51:06] <candle24> that might be the case from when I tried to install proprietary nvidia drivers
• 2917[23:51:21] <candle24> could purging them and rebooting fix it?
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• 2921[23:53:06] <blackflow> candle24: ah that's right, nvidia will pull in libgl1-mesa-glx from bpo as well
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• 2925[23:54:06] <blackflow> yeah you could try that, uninstall nvidia-driver, autoremove deps, and see if that fixes it
• 2926[23:54:48] <blackflow> I mean that will likely fix this. Unfortunately bpo is not synced across all the packages in the possible dep chain
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• 2931[23:58:28] <BCMM> jhutchins: in *general*, you can't just "burn" an ISO to a USB drive (e.g. with dd), because USB drives do not boot in the same way as CD drives. most linux distros offer specially-designed "hybrid" ISO images now, but Windows still does not.
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