Realtime Nick Name Ticker of #debian at freenode (ICQ IRC service)

0[00:01:06] <jim> pingfloyd, thanks for the tip... both of those find invocations had no output
1[00:01:34] <pingfloyd> jim: that's the result you want
2[00:01:44] <jim> thought so :) thanks
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4[00:01:54] <pingfloyd> you're welcome
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6[00:02:44] <pingfloyd> jim: with how easy it is the install and remove, there's not really much need for it to be packaged
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9[00:03:37] <pingfloyd> seems like it would be better if there was a package to automate downloading and installing (extracting) and updating from upstream
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11[00:05:10] <KOLANICH> pingfloyd: in fact I have a half-finished solution for that. But upstream is not always a good solution. Sometimes we explicitly don't want upstream.
12[00:05:39] <pingfloyd> KOLANICH: the package and it's utils could control that
13[00:06:21] <pingfloyd> KOLANICH: debians done this in the past with some other programs
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15[00:06:50] <KOLANICH> pingfloyd: I have a solution to package binary distributions into a debian package. I currently use CMake packages built this way. And some other.
16[00:07:09] <KOLANICH> *debian packages
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22[00:09:35] <jim> pingfloyd, I see your point... and, maybe a maint would want to put things like menu entries, other integrations, etc
23[00:10:07] <pingfloyd> jim: it takes a lot to compile firefox
24[00:10:20] <jim> I would imagine
25[00:10:26] <pingfloyd> jim: it's real pig on resources compiling
26[00:10:38] <jim> (especially a lot of time)
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28[00:11:37] <pingfloyd> there's a higher system requirement, according to mozilla, to compile than run it last I checked
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35[00:20:59] <jim> pingfloyd, maybe someone could package just the integrations, give firefox is unpacked in /opt
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58[00:53:30] <andoriyu> Alright friends. I'm trying to run ptp4l + chronyd via timemaster and i get permission defined from chornyd when it tries to open any configuration other than /etc/chrony/chrony.conf
59[00:53:35] <andoriyu> why is that?
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65[00:59:51] <andoriyu> apparmor is the answer
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114[01:56:32] <kiwiirc> i set xterm*scrollTtyOutput false in Xresources and that works but when there's output, what im looking at still scrolls up. is there an xterm setting to make output not change what you're looking at and build up the buffer below it?
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142[02:33:18] <A|an> In this cmd line example for recording an upgrade session using the script cmd, what does 2> indicate: #script -t 2>~/upgrade-bullseyestep.time -a ~/upgrade-bullseyestep.script
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165[02:44:29] <frostschutz> A|an, -t prints timing to stderr, 2>somefile redirects stderr to somefile. in newer versions of script this is a deprecated option, replaced by -T/--log-timing file
166[02:45:05] <A|an> thx
167[02:46:16] <A|an> Has bullseye not been formally released?
168[02:46:26] <A|an> (just read the topic)
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171[02:49:02] <jmcnaught> A|an: bullseye will be Debian 11, it's still in testing and will probably be released sometime next year. Buster or Debian 10 is the current stable release.
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173[02:53:24] <A|an> ic thx
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350[07:32:36] <c4droid> I just installed termonad at my system, when I open it, report /usr/share/termonad/img/termonad-lambda.png not found. then I go to the termonad github page download the pic to /usr/share/termonad/img amd reopen it, is work fine. I don't know the termonad package maintainer can pack the image to resolve this error?
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364[07:41:00] <alex11> this is why you don't leave after asking a question, i was about to propose submitting a bug report
365[07:42:03] <nvz> BUT I NEED HELP NOW! :P
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395[08:29:47] <behappycat> Hello, how can i fix different system and local time issue? It gives me problems on some ssl websites.
396[08:30:32] <alex11> tzselect?
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398[08:31:27] <alex11> not sure to the extent that will mess up cron jobs, though
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400[08:33:29] <KOLANICH> here I am again.
401[08:34:45] <alex11> the fact the system time seems to mess up ssl websites feels like it should be something they should fix on their end, not you
402[08:35:12] <alex11> especially if the reason is just "bypass certificate warning"
403[08:35:20] <alex11> those exist for a reason
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408[08:39:08] <KOLANICH> behappycat: do you have the correct time?
409[08:39:56] <behappycat> i selected the right country but still local time is 2hours behind system time
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411[08:40:40] <KOLANICH> behappycat: have you selected the right city?
412[08:41:05] <KOLANICH> behappycat: in fact any city in the same timezone may fit
413[08:41:05] <behappycat> yes, the nearest one which has the same time than mine
414[08:42:15] <KOLANICH> why don't you have the correct system time then? Have you tried to set the time manually in OS?
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416[08:42:55] <behappycat> yes i set it manually and it's fine for my os put i get some warnings on some ssl websites and some even wont elt me in
417[08:43:00] <behappycat> but*
418[08:43:47] <KOLANICH> (not in bios, in bios if you use Windows the time is usually local (unless a pref in registry is set), but in linux UTC time is kept in bios)
419[08:44:20] <KOLANICH> if you dualboot, in windows you should enable storing UTC time in bios
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422[08:45:53] <KOLANICH> also ou can try to update timezone DB
423[08:47:26] <behappycat> tzdata says Local time is now: Fri Sep 25 08:36:10 CEST 2020. and Universal Time is now: Fri Sep 25 06:36:10 UTC 2020.
424[08:47:55] <behappycat> somehow the universal time is set as my system time even though i have the right time on the upper right side of the screen
425[08:48:49] <behappycat> on ipleak website it says Ip Local Time Fri Sep 25 2020 8:37:34 GMT+0200 (CEST) and System Time Fri Sep 25 2020 06:37:34 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time)
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458[09:11:36] <centrix> Shuting down my VM of D10 my remote-viwer won't close. Even when I click to close. This does NOT happen with other OSses (Win XP-10, CentOS, Arch, FreeBSD...)
459[09:11:45] <centrix> Any help please?
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461[09:21:31] <centrix> I have spice-vdagent installed and at the latest version 0.18.0-1
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464[09:26:35] <hegemoOn> any good ressources on how setup traffic control (with tc) at startup ?
465[09:26:59] <hegemoOn> all the docs i can find are just talking about tc command, but never on how to make thoses settings persistent over reboot
466[09:27:11] <hegemoOn> for buster would be the best :)
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592[11:54:25] <taman> hegemoOn: haven't used tc but maybe a script in /etc/network/if-up.d would suit?
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606[12:11:55] <ksk> hegemoOn: setup a systemd unit and make it start after networking? :)
607[12:12:38] <ksk> not that you asked, but I always recommend "fireqos" to people - you might want to take a look.
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661[13:26:17] <Franciman> Hi
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663[13:26:38] <Franciman> I installed debian through the installer (but without the desktop software) so I ended up with no dhcpcd service
664[13:26:56] <Franciman> how can I configure the network now? (So that I can install dhcpcd)
665[13:27:27] <fireba11> Franciman: don't think it's possible to not install a dhcp client
666[13:27:38] <Franciman> uhm, it wasn't installed
667[13:27:47] <tmroland> which dhclient
668[13:27:57] <tmroland> at terminal
669[13:27:58] <Franciman> I mean dhcpcd.service was not listed in the available services
670[13:27:59] <tmroland> and see what it says
671[13:28:06] <Franciman> oh cool
672[13:28:15] <tmroland> its part of base system
673[13:28:19] <tmroland> in any distro
674[13:28:28] <ksk> 11:27 < Franciman> I mean dhcpcd.service was not listed in the available services -- that would be about a dhcp server.
675[13:28:36] <Haohmaru> 2020 is just not the same without internetz
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677[13:29:13] <Franciman> ksk uhm I thought it was a dhcp client daemon service
678[13:29:21] <tmroland> if you dont have network manager installed , just use /etc/network/interfaces to configure the interface
679[13:29:50] <Franciman> is there a debian guide to follow?
680[13:30:00] <Franciman> replaced-url
681[13:30:19] <Franciman> but it's only half of the story, I don't have the dhcpcd service, so I need to do it manually
682[13:30:28] <ksk> Franciman: you basicly have to issue "dhclient $interface" as root, to make it work one-time
683[13:30:48] <ksk> I would suggest installing network-manager or so after that, if you are more of an end-user and like to click things :)
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687[13:31:20] <ksk> Then you just configure networking using that GUI, same as you would in Windows.
688[13:31:53] <Franciman> I would be happy to learn how to do it otherwise lol
689[13:31:56] <Franciman> ok thanks
690[13:32:01] <Franciman> getting back to installation
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707[13:59:55] <ragedragon> Hello the room, does one of you know why a migration from hdd to ssd using only dd (and the same mbr/partition table) on a laptop fail to boot ? OS: Win7
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709[14:00:08] <ragedragon> i ran a persistent live usb (old stretch)
710[14:00:35] <ragedragon> is a syslinux mbr (or install mbr) required?
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712[14:01:07] <ragedragon> i've got at boot "Missing operating system" on the new ssd
713[14:01:16] <ratrace> ragedragon: what exactly did you dd?
714[14:02:07] <ragedragon> firsty i did a backup of the whole hdd with dd if=/dev/sda of=/mnt/external_disk/backup.img
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717[14:02:43] <ragedragon> then dd if=backup.img of=/dev/sda (replaced by the new ssd into the laptop0
718[14:02:45] <ragedragon> )
719[14:03:08] <hendursaga> Hi, I'm doing my first release upgrade, from Stretch to Buster. A few hitches with the apt upgrade step, but that's done. Before I could run apt dist-upgrade, though, unattended-upgrades kicked in and I'm not entirely sure what it's doing - just security upgrades? Dist-upgrade for me??
720[14:03:10] <ragedragon> boths are now in MBR
721[14:03:29] <ksk> I dont think this is a good Idea (Since the SSD is different from HDD; and you will want to setup its filesystem accoringly, and not use an hdd optimized one..)
722[14:04:02] <ragedragon> ratrace, ksk, ok
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724[14:04:11] <ksk> so, as always: Create Partitions, Filesystems on SSD. Sync over your content via rsync. then do the grub-repair thing
725[14:04:14] <ksk> !grub-repair
726[14:04:17] <ksk> mhhm
727[14:04:32] <ratrace> eh I wouldn't really be recommending f2fs, if that's what you meant by "not hdd optimized one"
728[14:05:04] <ragedragon> it is a corporate laptop where old win7 is in place... i intend only to move to ssd. I believed that it is an easy task using dd...
729[14:05:16] <ragedragon> seems i'm wrong
730[14:05:20] <ksk> !fixmbr
731[14:05:20] <dpkg> To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>.
732[14:05:37] <ratrace> and technically dd'ing the device shouldn've caused this. uuids are filesystem specific, and the only thing I can think of is bios thinking gpt is corrupt if the backup partition is missing (Eg hdd was bigger than ssd), but if this is mbr...
733[14:05:38] <hendursaga> My computer is shutting down and it says not to power off, because of unattended-upgrades. Will this be taking a long time? I can't see any progress on it.
734[14:06:22] <ragedragon> ksk, actually the Win7 bootloader chain is in place
735[14:06:34] <ragedragon> ksk, fixing mbr is required?
736[14:07:00] <ksk> only if you choose to create partitions+filesystems yourself, and just copy over contents of the hdd.
737[14:07:02] <ragedragon> ksk, the bios setting is not changed (using legacy mode, not uefi)
738[14:07:13] <ragedragon> ok
739[14:07:16] <ragedragon> thx
740[14:07:30] <ratrace> hendursaga: is that some gnome thing now, ala windows? "Please don't turn off your computer while the updates are running" or somesuch?
741[14:07:41] <ksk> How does it fail to boot btw, what does it say?
742[14:07:42] <ratrace> hendursaga: also, unattended upgrades is not really a good idea.
743[14:08:03] <ragedragon> ksk, only indicating 'Missing Operating System'
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745[14:08:15] <ragedragon> i checked the order of boot devices... it is ok
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747[14:08:25] <ratrace> ragedragon: was the old sda just plain linux or you had dual boot with windows on it?
748[14:08:29] <ksk> Sounds like BIOS/UEFI cant even handover to your bootloader then.
749[14:08:43] <ragedragon> no dual boot only Win7 (corporate)
750[14:08:47] <hendursaga> ratrace: No, not graphical.
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752[14:09:01] <ratrace> hendursaga: sorry, I lost you
753[14:09:21] <ratrace> ragedragon: wait, what did you dd? disc containing _what_ exactly?
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755[14:09:27] <ragedragon> ratrace, and of course the ssd is more bigger than hdd and i let the empty space not used
756[14:09:30] <hendursaga> ratrace: It's not a GNOME thing. It's the console, telling me that unattended-upgrades is running and to please not turn off your computer.
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758[14:09:52] <ratrace> hendursaga: in result of what command?
759[14:10:03] <hendursaga> *power off, and in response to shutdown
760[14:10:05] <ragedragon> ratrace, i create a image file containing the whole hdd firstly
761[14:10:40] <ragedragon> ratrace, this image file is into an external partition (usb hdd)
762[14:10:48] <ratrace> ragedragon: but what was on that disk.... just linux? all partitions just linux and regular grub configured to boot that? because you mentioned chainloading and that's a whole different picture then
763[14:10:54] <ragedragon> no only win7
764[14:10:59] <ratrace> ........
765[14:11:08] <ragedragon> with a win7 bootloader chain
766[14:11:17] <ratrace> so you'r enow asking how to fix win7 booting?
767[14:11:48] <ragedragon> ratrace, i don't know, i really believed that a dd can help to copy a hdd to ssd ....
768[14:12:16] <ragedragon> because the image file contain first sector and the mbr no?
769[14:12:19] <ksk> ragedragon: It does, yes. But we dont know anything about Windows, and as far as I know you cannot just put an installed windows into other hardware..
770[14:12:20] <ratrace> hendursaga: well that's new to me, that it would do that. maybe there's an apt run going presently? ps axu | grep -P "apt|dpkg"
771[14:12:40] <ratrace> ragedragon: but copy WHAT? windows or linux? because if you broke windows, we can't help there.
772[14:12:43] <genr8_> ragedragon, it should have worked by all accounts
773[14:12:43] <hendursaga> ratrace: It's shutting down. I can't run anything.
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775[14:13:11] <ksk> ragedragon: there is an "Please include generic drivers into kernel" option, try that before creating the image. Also: ##windows
776[14:13:27] <ragedragon> ratrace, my initial hdd (containing win7 only) is able to boot, not the ssd
777[14:13:29] <ratrace> hendursaga: well, I'll chalk that up to ONE MORE reason to never run unattended upgrades, if that's what it is. that said, no idea how long it'd take. depends on how many packages it needs to upgrade and if there's dkms like nvidia or zfs in the picture.
778[14:14:07] <ratrace> ragedragon: sorry we cannot help you debugging windows 7 bootin issues. you'll have to ask in #windows
779[14:14:32] <hendursaga> ratrace: Well, I forgot I even had it on. And considering I haven't used this machine in over a year....
780[14:14:38] <ragedragon> ratrace, ok no problem i believed that it was a dd command issue or something related
781[14:14:42] <ratrace> for linux, dd'ing linux ONLY disks with no chainloading and stuff, it should work just like that.
782[14:14:42] <ragedragon> partition ....
783[14:14:54] <genr8_> it should work
784[14:15:02] <ragedragon> ratrace, yes i already did it in the past w/o any problem
785[14:15:19] <genr8_> are you sure you did the right drive? did you do /dev/sda ? so its the MBR also (not /dev/sda1 only one partition)
786[14:15:29] <ragedragon> ratrace, ksk i will see around win chat...thx a lot
787[14:15:30] <ratrace> ragedragon: right, so this is a windows issue, maybe it's bound to disk serial number (wouldn't be surprised), so you'll have to ask #windows
788[14:16:06] <ragedragon> genr8_, yes sure i did not write to a partition because the ssd is new (just received) without any partition
789[14:16:21] <ragedragon> or partition scheme
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791[14:16:37] <ratrace> hendursaga: then leave it now. it if tkes more than 10 minutes, something's wrong. dunno if I can recommend to hard reboot it or not. there's so much fail in that unattended shit, this is textbook example.
792[14:16:39] <genr8_> are you sure you plugged it in
793[14:16:51] <ragedragon> ratrace, ah i can image the issue with the serial number, good idea thx 1
794[14:16:53] <ragedragon> !
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797[14:18:02] <genr8_> you know you cant boot windows off USB right? You have to put the new SSD inside where the old HDD was
798[14:18:08] <ragedragon> hoping that M$ can generate online or using the old hdd a usb repair image to start something to recreate the boot loader chain or mbr...
799[14:18:20] <ragedragon> genr8_, yes it was the case
800[14:18:37] <ragedragon> i replaced the new ssd into the laptop
801[14:18:44] <ratrace> ragedragon: that said, nobody should be running win7 any more, especially not online.
802[14:18:45] <genr8_> i guess youll just have to recover the bootloader then, idk
803[14:19:05] <genr8_> 'Missing Operating System' <-- bios cant detect a MBR
804[14:19:17] <ragedragon> ratrace, yes i know :)
805[14:19:29] <ragedragon> genr8_, it is not an windows message?
806[14:19:36] <genr8_> it is not.
807[14:19:46] <ragedragon> genr8_, ok thx i will check the bios
808[14:19:51] <ragedragon> it is a dell laptop
809[14:20:02] <hendursaga> ratrace: So apparently it shutdown for me. Now apt update says I have 227 to upgrade. What do I do first? apt upgrade? apt dist-upgrade??
810[14:20:31] <ratrace> hendursaga: apt upgrade. you don't need dist-upgrade unless you're upgrading across major versions
811[14:20:32] <genr8_> i had a feeling it was a Dell. thats a message from the dell bios saying there was no way to boot
812[14:20:55] <ratrace> hendursaga: with apt, that is! apt-get is a bit different story, and dist-upgrade is needed for new packages like kernels.
813[14:21:05] <ragedragon> genr8_, ok i see
814[14:21:35] <ragedragon> i only saw that the bios can read the size of ssd (240G)
815[14:21:44] <hendursaga> ratrace: So you're saying apt upgrade, then apt dist-upgrade?
816[14:21:54] <ratrace> "unless you're upgrading across major versions" ... and that's wrong too, I confused it with something else.
817[14:22:05] <ratrace> hendursaga: i'm saying just "apt upgrade" should suffice
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819[14:22:48] <hendursaga> But I still haven't run dist-upgrade yet.
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821[14:22:54] <ragedragon> genr8_, i saw that there are 2 options (AHCI and ATA or something similar); previous hdd was AHCI, should i change it to ATA?
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823[14:23:18] <yanmaani> replaced-url
824[14:23:28] <yanmaani> Have you considered using `pdfprivacy` for this?
825[14:23:35] <ksk> ragedragon: this is a channel about Debian, please take your questions elsewhere..
826[14:23:40] <ratrace> hendursaga: apt (vs apt-get) does not have or need dist-upgrade
827[14:23:47] <ragedragon> ksk, of course yes; sorry.
828[14:24:33] <genr8_> should be fine with either.
829[14:24:39] <hendursaga> ratrace: Well, apt upgrade doesn't do anything - there's a huge list of packages "kept back"
830[14:25:06] <genr8_> cause its time to do a dist-upgrade though, so that makes sense
831[14:25:42] <ratrace> hendursaga: are you actually using `apt` or `apt-get` ?
832[14:25:54] <hendursaga> apt. I never use apt-get.
833[14:26:53] <ratrace> so apt doesn't need dist-upgrade as it does its function (chanign package dependencies and removing some) through regular "upgrade". now it's possible that unattended ugpraded messed things up. I'd start with `apt install -f` and see if anything moves
834[14:27:05] <hendursaga> apt dist-upgrade lists the same huge list of packages, but not "kept back", but "will be upgraded"..
835[14:27:24] <hendursaga> ratrace: Did that. Nothing. Just packages to autoremove.
836[14:27:45] <genr8_> just do what it wants.
837[14:27:52] <ratrace> then run apt-get dist-upgrade to finish it
838[14:28:27] <hendursaga> Wow, 1.3 GB freed up...
839[14:31:04] <ratrace> btw I think the same would be done with apt full-upgrade, I'm guessing packages were kept back because old deps needed removing, which is what apt full-upgrade and apt-get dist-upgrade, would do
840[14:31:37] <genr8_> yep
841[14:31:58] <ratrace> though regular apt upgrade should do all that afaik. think unattended upgrades left the ssystem in some half-state, as it uses apt-get internally iirc
842[14:32:09] <ratrace> also good time to remove that abomination of unattended-upgrades.
843[14:32:23] <genr8_> yeah i hate that too
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846[14:33:38] <hendursaga> Disabled, yup
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852[14:37:36] <raub> I need to run openssl with 3DES for a test. According to the openssl docs, v 1.1.0 supports it. So I installed debian9/stretch but I can't find that cipher when I ask 'openssl ciphers -v ALL|grep -i des'
853[14:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1156
854[14:39:27] <genr8_> its been deprecated
855[14:39:34] <ksk> raub: I can only imagine 3DES was already considered insecure in Stretch and so its not part of openssl.
856[14:40:14] <ratrace> yes I think Debian is not compiling openssl with --enable-weak-ssl-ciphers which would be needed
857[14:41:17] <ksk> from wikipedia: "OpenSSL does not include 3DES by default since version 1.1.0 (August 2016) and considers it a "weak cipher".[22] "
858[14:41:43] <ksk> replaced-url
859[14:42:06] <raub> Aha, I must have misread it. So, onwards to debian8
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864[14:45:11] <raub> ksk: I thought that replaced-url
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867[14:47:33] <H4ndy> raub it says that for 1.0.1 and 1.0.2
868[14:47:44] <H4ndy> right below that "For the 1.1.0 release, which we expect to release tomorrow, we will treat triple-DES just like we are treating RC4. It is not compiled by default; you have to use “enable-weak-ssl-ciphers” as a config option"
869[14:48:15] <genr8_> yeah debian is compiled without that.
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876[14:59:53] <oxek> well this was fun. I wanted to install the tint taskbar for openbox, so I do 'apt install tint', all goes well. Then I run 'tint' from terminal, and it starts a tetris game...
877[15:00:00] <oxek> the correct package name is tint2
878[15:00:52] <hegemoOn> taman: ksk this is what i did
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883[15:05:48] <ratrace> oxek: huh... why you have /usr/games before /(s)/bin in PATH :) careful wit dwarf fortress or hilarity will ensue :)
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885[15:06:48] <ratrace> oxek: oh you don't.... tint2 vs tint.... well funny anway :)
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893[15:09:07] <Fenris> hello
894[15:09:15] <klys> hi
895[15:09:46] <Fenris> nothing, got a relative poor velocity downloading from deb.debian.org
896[15:09:48] <Fenris> solved.
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898[15:11:09] <dvs> next?
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903[15:12:40] <ratrace> !next
904[15:12:41] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
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985[16:38:19] <NetTerminalGene> ,v firefox-esr
986[16:38:20] <judd> Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1; jessie-security: 68.9.0esr-1~deb8u2; stretch: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 68.10.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 68.10.0esr-1~deb10u1; buster-proposed-updates: 68.12.0esr-1~deb10u1; buster-security: 68.12.0esr-1~deb10u1;
987[16:38:21] <judd> bullseye: 78.3.0esr-2; sid: 78.3.0esr-2
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989[16:38:49] <lpancescu> hi, using debian for many years but i've never tried to install from a live iso. do you get the same setup as when choosing e.g. gnome-desktop on a netinst?
990[16:39:39] <lpancescu> it would be practical when network connectivity isn't great
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992[16:40:26] <lpancescu> i assume most packages would be taken from the iso - or does it just copy the live image to the disk as it is?
993[16:40:45] <oxek> ratrace: I just found what you meant with dwarf fortress. df... that must have been fun
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1000[16:43:55] <ksk> oxek: lol, I was also wondering what he meant ;)
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1007[16:49:57] <n4dir> lpancescu: as far i follow most recommend against using the live iso's for installing.
1008[16:50:18] <n4dir> as they cause trouble. As said: as far i follow
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1010[16:51:46] <lpancescu> n4dir: thanks, that's also how i remembered it... should i then use the first installation dvd when going for an install with bad network? there's an xfce install cd, but not one for gnome or kde
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1012[16:53:11] <n4dir> I would say yes, use the first DVD. I didn't know there is no gnome or kde DVD install media. Wait if someone says: nah, using the live iso is fine in such cases (or confirms what i heard)
1013[16:53:35] <n4dir> ah, you only meant CD ? Yeah, i heard so these days. So yes, DVD would be it then.
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1015[16:55:16] <lpancescu> xfce is small, it fits on a normal cd image (not that it matters, i'll be writing the iso on an usb stick anyway)
1016[16:55:58] <n4dir> back in the days apt-get install xfce4 was around 180 MB (without xorg though)
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1018[16:56:09] <n4dir> and without the goodies
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1025[16:58:24] <lpancescu> xfce is awesome, very fast and few bugs - no memory leaks, either :)
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1032[17:00:48] <lpancescu> 10.6 is due to be released tomorrow, right?
1033[17:00:57] <flayer> i will try xfce, i am getting tired of gnome
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1035[17:02:25] <n4dir> lpancescu: yes, i for one like xfce4 too. Does enough what i want, doesn't stand in my way, uses only little ressources, and what not
1036[17:02:45] <tozhu> hello, I have a simple question regarding to the kernel package name schema that compiled from source: I compiled kernel 5.8.11, and get the kernel deb package : linux-image-5.8.11_5.8.11-1_amd64.deb and linux-headers-5.8.11_5.8.11-1_amd64.deb ; my question is: why the official release, the package name is linux-[image|headers]-<V.v.vv>_amd64 ; but I compiled schema is: linux-[image|headers]-V.v.vv_V.v.vv-1_amd64 where is the rule to define the name sche
1037[17:02:57] <lpancescu> flayer: i see some sort of memory leak with gnome, both on nouveau and amd graphics - the upstream issue tracker is full of such reports, going back at least to 2014. similar for kde :(
1038[17:03:46] <flayer> sometimes i have to restart cause the desktop environment slows down to a crawl
1039[17:04:12] <flayer> i'm blaming gnome-shell but i dunno
1040[17:04:25] <lpancescu> debian xfce is really well integrated, wrt chosen applications
1041[17:04:40] <tozhu> and the 2nd question: when I compiled the kernel, there is no linux-headers-V.v.vvv-common ; how to compile that package for the kernel? thanks in advance
1042[17:05:36] <lpancescu> hard to say, upstream isn't sure either, they speak of multiple different memory leaks: some with references between javascript and c, others probably due to triggering bugs in graphics drivers... kde also has the problem with javascript plasmoids leaking fast
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1045[17:07:54] <flayer> well, we'll see what happens, just removed gnome and installed xfce4 -- gonna restart
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1051[17:12:22] <flayer> oops, had to remove both 'gnome' and 'gnome-shell' packages to get it all uninstalled
1052[17:13:17] <zerocool> buddies i have a question. im running an apt mirror and one of my urls always 404's... 'debian buster-backports/main Translation-en'
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1056[17:15:19] <flayer> hey my thumbnails are generating properly again
1057[17:15:32] * flayer eyerolls
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1066[17:24:08] <LtL> zerocool: the correct line would be, deb replaced-url
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1068[17:25:35] <LtL> maybe apt mirror is different, but i doubt it.
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1095[17:47:08] <hendursaga> Upgrade went successful. Less eventful than I thought it'd be :)
1096[17:47:29] <ratrace> ksk: replaced-url
1097[17:48:32] <zerocool> LtL: im using: ^deb replaced-url
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1102[17:49:41] <jim> hi... could someone point me to the docs on /etc/default/grub ?
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1105[17:51:17] <LtL> zerocool: that should be fine. are you using apt-mirror? or just referring to a mirror?
1106[17:51:40] <another> jim: see line 3+4
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1109[17:53:13] <jim> another. confused for a moment... did you mean lines 3 and 4 in that file?
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1111[17:53:47] <another> yes
1112[17:54:38] <zerocool> LtL: yes it's apt-mirror
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1114[17:55:33] <Franciman> Hi, I installed xserver-xorg-core, then when I installed xinit
1115[17:55:38] <Franciman> it also installed a lot of stuff
1116[17:55:51] <Franciman> like xserver-xorg-video-intel (which I DON'T NEED)
1117[17:55:52] <Franciman> why?
1118[17:56:33] <sney> !why recommends
1119[17:56:33] <dpkg> From Debian 5.0 "Lenny" onwards, apt-get and aptitude both install "Recommended" packages by default. From <policy> section 7.2, Recommends, "declares a strong, but not absolute, dependency. The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations." You're not that unusual, trust us. By not installing "recommended" packages you will be missing functionality.
1120[17:56:47] <sney> congratulations, you found an edge case where they could have been disabled, probably.
1121[17:57:18] <sney> though all of those X drivers are teeny weeny on disk, and will not hurt anything by being there.
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1123[17:58:46] <sney> you can see which packages are Depends and which are Recommends by looking at the output of 'apt show packagename'
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1125[17:59:36] <LtL> zerocool: i have never used apt-mirror, suggest you 'man apt-mirror' … or keep asking, i assume it's a syntax error
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1128[18:04:09] <Franciman> hm
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1132[18:05:56] <Franciman> thanks sney
1133[18:06:03] <Franciman> so I'm unsure
1134[18:06:35] <Franciman> is there a way to remove all packages that I installed since a particular date?
1135[18:06:44] <Franciman> a sort of snapshot of the packages installed at a given time
1136[18:07:01] <sney> not automatically, but you can look at /var/log/apt/history.log to find out what those packages were
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1139[18:09:41] <Franciman> thank you, sney
1140[18:09:52] <sney> np
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1145[18:17:49] <Franciman> thing is
1146[18:18:06] <Franciman> dpkg says that recommendations are not unusual
1147[18:18:07] <dpkg> Franciman: okay
1148[18:18:18] <Franciman> but why does it install all the xorg video modules?
1149[18:18:37] <Franciman> I only have one VGA, at most two...
1150[18:19:12] <dvs> !says that recommendations
1151[18:19:12] <dpkg> says that recommendations are not unusual
1152[18:20:17] <sney> the debian X team would know the authoritative answer to that, but I would say it's probably because you might want to move your hard drive to a different system at some point, and this means it'll work. and again, there are multiple packages but they're really very small, you wouldn't notice the difference
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1154[18:20:57] <sney> a debian system generally tries to be hardware-agnostic. this is also why initramfs-tools defaults to modules=most
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1157[18:22:35] <sney> technically speaking, it's because xserver-xorg-video-all depends on all of those individual driver packages, and apt does not know what video hardware you have
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1170[18:29:03] <Franciman> understood
1171[18:29:16] <Franciman> but now with the intel drive, I had a not good working system :<
1172[18:29:19] <Franciman> driver*
1173[18:29:26] <Franciman> well no problem, I uninstalled it
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1180[18:42:53] <toeshred> Hello! I'm trying to change my /etc/hosts file, but when I curl the domain is seems like the change in the hosts file is not taking effect. Do I need to do anything after I've made my changes to /etc/hosts?
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1193[18:55:26] <ratrace> toeshred: no, you don't. is the syntax correct in the hosts file? <ip> hostname ?
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1195[18:56:01] <ratrace> toeshred: also what does this say: grep hosts /etc/nsswitch.conf
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1197[18:56:09] <toeshred> ratrace: yes the syntax is correct.
1198[18:56:22] <toeshred> ratrace: files mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] dns
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1202[18:57:08] <ratrace> toeshred: well then /etc/hosts _should_ be consulted _first_ in name resolution. check again, maybe you confused something with curl?
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1204[18:58:52] <ratrace> toeshred: also that nsswitch.conf line is a bit weird. you sure you want mdns to have greater authority than dns on nxdomain ?
1205[18:59:06] <toeshred> ratrace: Ah, maybe it's because I didnt use the actual IP in the redirect, I used another domain, like this: host1.com host2.com
1206[18:59:32] <toeshred> ratrace: that was just the default. I've never edited nsswitch.conf before.
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1208[19:01:16] <ratrace> weird. I wonder what set that default. anyway, what do you mean by "ip in the redirect"... what's your curl query like?
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1211[19:01:57] <toeshred> pretty much just this: curl toeshred.com
1212[19:02:19] <toeshred> And my hosts entry is: arkdedicated.com toeshred.com
1213[19:02:42] <toeshred> But when I curl each, I get different html output still.
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1216[19:08:02] <ratrace> toeshred: when you do curl -s -D - -o /dev/null toeshred.com do you get a Location: header in there?
1217[19:08:38] <os_> hi, i found this tag (implemented-in::c) in dosbox debian tags , should i report a bug since dosbox is implemented in c++? and not have even one file with .c extension?
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1219[19:09:08] <toeshred> ratrace: i do not
1220[19:09:34] <ratrace> toeshred: and with -v does it show trying the expected IP ?
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1222[19:11:07] <toeshred> ratrace: it still shows them both as different domains.
1223[19:11:26] <toeshred> and shows different IP's for each.
1224[19:11:46] <cipherize> toeshred: What is the actual contents of /etc/hosts?
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1226[19:12:43] <toeshred> cipherize: replaced-url
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1228[19:13:00] <cipherize> That last line is not a valid hosts entry.
1229[19:13:20] <ratrace> toeshred: yeah well, I _did_ ask you if the syntax was <ip> hostname and you said yes
1230[19:13:30] <cipherize> man 5 hosts: IP name1 name2 name3 ...
1231[19:14:19] <toeshred> ah ok. i guess i thoguht ip and host was interchangeable like how it is on a web browser. i have much to learn.
1232[19:14:42] <cipherize> The man page for hosts would have indicated if that were so.
1233[19:14:58] <cipherize> "This file is a simple text file that associates IP addresses with hostnames, one line per IP address."
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1235[19:15:35] <toeshred> I'll try it now with the IP
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1237[19:17:11] <toeshred> And it works. Ty ratrace and cipherize
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1239[19:18:39] <sney> if you wanted local CNAMEs you would have to run an actual dns server, like dnsmasq, or many routers can do it
1240[19:19:31] <toeshred> yeah i may end up just doing that from the router at a later point.
1241[19:19:37] <toeshred> good idea
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1314[20:36:59] <echelon> hi, how do i stop this prevent this error.. No subnet declaration for docker0 in isc-dhcp-server?
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1326[20:46:15] <goddard> how can i see why a certain library was installed?
1327[20:46:18] <goddard> is that possible?
1328[20:46:23] <goddard> or see what is using it
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1330[20:47:51] <greycat> you can see what's *using* it, sort of, with "aptitude why pkgname"
1331[20:47:59] <greycat> you cannot see what decisions were made in the past
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1334[20:49:51] <teo7> Hi, how to switch between integrated video card and dedicated gpu?
1335[20:50:00] <teo7> I'm on debian stable and I've an geforce 950m, so I installed the proprietary driver through "apt install nvidia-driver". Now is there any extension/application that allows me to switch between integrated video card and dedicated video card?
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1340[20:55:47] <jmcnaught> teo7: there is information on this wiki page about setting setting that up: replaced-url
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1355[21:10:06] <somiaj> teo7: please don't cross post.
1356[21:10:08] <somiaj> !cross-post
1357[21:10:08] <dpkg> Posting the same question in several places at the same time (IRC channels, news groups, mailing lists, forums) is impolite; your time is NOT more valuable than everyone else's. Your question might be answered elsewhere, meanwhile we are wasting our time doing research for a problem you've already solved. Cross-posting can also make you look like a spammer and get you k:lined. See also <multiple ask> <hurry>.
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1360[21:13:00] <flayer> any suggestions for relatively simple text editors like gedit in xfce4?
1361[21:13:24] <diogenes_> flayer, the default one is pretty good mousepad.
1362[21:13:27] <n4dir> mousepad, though that is more easy than gedit. Perhaps geany, but that is more
1363[21:14:47] <n4dir> after i learned the very basics of vim they all seem way more complicated to me.
1364[21:15:06] <sney> how about gedit? it doesn't depend on the whole gnome ecosystem, and as a gtk app it shouldn't look out of place in xfce
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1367[21:15:32] <smashgrab> Pluma seems pretty light, but not sure what the deps are.
1368[21:15:43] <flayer> too many choices lol thanks guys
1369[21:16:57] <smashgrab> Any suggestions on an all in one printer (print and scan) that will work on debian. Someone got my parents an HP Photo Envy 7855. Quick attempt at installing was able to print/scan but the front panel on printer that lets you put something in the doc feeder complains about no HP app on the computer. Don't mind buying them a different printer, but want them to be able to easily scan as well as print, ideally. So thought I would ask for
1370[21:16:57] <smashgrab> recommend or advice. Will give it a closer look when I get another chance.
1371[21:17:45] <packetS> can anyone help me finish installing a debian flavor (parrotOS) so that it doesn't need the usb to boot? replaced-url
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1373[21:18:06] <greycat> !parrot
1374[21:18:06] <dpkg> Parrot Linux is a distribution based on <testing> for security experts, developers and privacy aware people. It is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Support can be found in #parrotsec on Freenode or the community pages replaced-url
1375[21:18:09] <flayer> smashgrab, i use xsane for scanning
1376[21:18:25] <packetS> theres like 50 people in that channel
1377[21:18:51] <packetS> nothing official i just need some help conceptually im lost
1378[21:18:56] <sney> !they don't know
1379[21:18:56] <dpkg> We're sorry your distro's channel isn't being helpful, but that doesn't make it appropriate to use #debian for non-Debian questions. Please go back to your channel and wait patiently for better help, or install Debian and party with us.
1380[21:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1179
1381[21:19:39] <smashgrab> flayer, ideally I want to be able to use the doc feeder and it seems I cannot at least after first attempt at setting up. I am able to scan, but cannot put something in the doc feeder and press a button to scan which is what I would want to have happen.
1382[21:19:41] <packetS> it doesnt but why wont grub take the bootloader after i specifically flagged the partition table to fat32 for the uefi reqwuirement
1383[21:20:32] <sney> also, parrot will not magically turn you into a hacker, and everything you can do in a specialized OS like parrot, you can also do on debian. we could help you if you were using debian. and if you insist on demanding support for parrot in here, greycat will eventually ban you.
1384[21:20:38] <packetS> since monday
1385[21:22:52] <packetS> ill just install gentoo then
1386[21:22:56] <smashgrab> packetS, you might want to consult arch linux documentation for conceptual answers. But I would just install debian, personally.
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1388[21:25:20] <packetS> its not installing anything like at the uefi menu there are zero boot options
1389[21:25:52] <sney> packetS: ask in ##linux for general conceptual stuff if you can't bring yourself to follow any of our other advice
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1392[21:26:08] <packetS> and i wouldnt be able to install debian either geinus
1393[21:26:09] <sney> "but I want you to help me" is not a justification for #debian to ignore our own multi-decade-old channel rules
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1395[21:26:44] <packetS> its not i actually know that its just a gvery frtustrtaing proiblem for 7 days now
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1397[21:26:56] <sney> rip
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1399[21:27:54] <packetS> it says something i would come to #debian befgore #parrotsec
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1401[21:28:12] <packetS> knowing this would be the respoinse too
1402[21:28:20] <greycat> Yes, it says something, but I don't think that it says what you think it says.
1403[21:28:57] <packetS> you can skin a cat more than one way i heard
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1406[21:30:40] <packetS> do i need to build a shrine for richard stallman along side my server rack or donate to autism children of america like what does it take
1407[21:30:44] <sponix2ipfw> I just don't eat cats
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1409[21:31:55] <packetS> so you eat dogs, thats what your saying?
1410[21:32:02] <packetS> you sick bastard?
1411[21:32:03] <sponix2ipfw> packetS: maybe leave, return later, and only ask Debian specific questions
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1413[21:32:36] <sponix2ipfw> Wish you luck
1414[21:32:37] <packetS> #debian eats puppies
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1416[21:32:44] <flayer> ...
1417[21:32:44] <packetS> fuckers
1418[21:32:44] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o greycat
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1422[21:33:31] <taman> Why is 'kworker/0:3+events' using so much CPU? replaced-url
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1426[21:36:45] <tomreyn> because it needs to compute so much
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1430[21:38:00] <taman> Until recently, it did not.
1431[21:38:21] <tomreyn> this may suggest that something changed recently
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1433[21:39:29] <Kon> Will adding backports as a source mean all my packages will upgrade during next "apt upgrade" ? Similar to Ubuntu's *-updates ?
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1435[21:39:55] <greycat> No. You have to specify each backport explicitly.
1436[21:40:05] *** greycat sets mode: -o greycat
1437[21:40:05] <Kon> Thanks, just wanted to confirm that
1438[21:40:31] <Kon> I see the documentation says apt-get -t buster-backports install package
1439[21:40:33] <Kon> But can I do
1440[21:40:41] <Kon> apt install package/buster-backports ?
1441[21:41:46] <nvz> not that I know of
1442[21:42:07] <nvz> only sort of thing I know of like that is that you can do packag:arch when using multiarch
1443[21:43:04] <tomreyn> =version works with apt
1444[21:43:18] <alex11> !tias
1445[21:43:18] <dpkg> TIAS is "Try It And See".
1446[21:43:22] <tomreyn> and you can get the version from apt policy package
1447[21:43:54] <Kon> alex11: Actually messing about with someone else's Dockerfile atm
1448[21:44:14] <alex11> then don't tias :D
1449[21:45:00] <Kon> From the manpages, though, FYI:
1450[21:45:02] <Kon> Alternatively the version from a specific release can be selected by following the package name with a forward slash (/) and codename (buster, bullseye, sid ...) or suite name (stable, testing, unstable).
1451[21:45:23] <Kon> Perhaps that's just from the release and doesn't apply to backports
1452[21:45:30] <sney> apt is apt, that should work fine
1453[21:45:52] <sney> the instructions have 1 example for simplicity's sake. but the apt man page applies accross the board.
1454[21:48:37] <nvz> ah.. well this may be a new feature of the new tool "apt"
1455[21:48:51] <nvz> which is a bit fancier than the old apt-get and apt-cache
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1457[21:49:33] <nvz> that one is news to me :D
1458[21:49:46] <Kon> Just grabbed a Debian docker image real quick and tried it out
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1460[21:50:10] <Kon> Unfortunately seems it can't find a release "stretch-backports"
1461[21:50:18] <Kon> When doing it that way
1462[21:50:39] <nvz> you'd need to have a source for it
1463[21:50:39] <sponix2ipfw> Kon: if a fresh image, wouldn't it be buster ?
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1467[21:51:15] <Kon> sponix2ipfw: I pulled the stretch-backports image
1468[21:51:22] <nvz> apt doesn't "find" anything, it operates on your local cache which is produced based on what your sources are
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1470[21:52:12] <Kon> Oh that explains a lot
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1472[21:52:31] <Kon> Looking at the sources list, turns out the stretch-backports Docker image doesn't have stretch-backports enabled out of the box
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1474[21:52:47] <greycat> local cache of package lists and metadata, not cache of actual packages
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1523[22:45:39] <flayer> so, uh... i have uninstalled network-manager and now i'm not sure how to manage my network interfaces because ifup and ifconfig don't exist ...
1524[22:45:54] <flayer> and i am not at all sure how i am connected to anything atm
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1529[22:51:13] <jmcnaught> flayer: ifupdown package is not installed?
1530[22:51:30] <flayer> 0.8.35+b1 is installed
1531[22:52:18] <jmcnaught> flayer: that is the package that contains the ifup and ifdown commands, which you use on interfaces that are configured in /etc/network/interfaces
1532[22:52:30] *** Parts: andoriyu (~andoriyu@replaced-ip##) ("The Lounge - ##replaced-url
1533[22:52:32] <flayer> ok, so that's still used
1534[22:52:37] <flayer> i imagine that's how it found dhcp
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1536[22:53:44] <greycat> if an interface is configured in /etc/network/interfaces, N-M will ignore it
1537[22:53:48] <flayer> replaced-url
1538[22:53:50] <taman> flayer, you're not running stable then
1539[22:54:03] <greycat> ,v ifupdown
1540[22:54:04] <judd> Package: ifupdown on amd64 -- jessie: 0.7.53.1; stretch: 0.8.19; buster: 0.8.35; bullseye: 0.8.35+b1; sid: 0.8.35+b1
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1543[22:54:23] <flayer> i haven't had ifconfig or anything like that in years though
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1545[22:54:39] <flayer> i don't know where it went :(
1546[22:55:05] <greycat> flayer: replaced-url
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1548[22:55:34] <jhutchins> ifconfig is in net-tools.
1549[22:55:47] <jhutchins> Not installed by default.
1550[22:56:01] <flayer> i have that one too
1551[22:56:07] <greycat> Oh, I'm actually off by a release. replaced-url
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1555[22:57:29] <jmcnaught> flayer: if /sbin is not in "echo $PATH" then you might be using "su" wrong, you need "su -" or "su -l" for a proper root login shell with correct environment.
1556[22:57:56] <flayer> there we go, thanks
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1558[22:58:07] <greycat> The su thing is on NewInBuster. That one I'm sure of!
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1560[22:58:13] <greycat> The net-tools thing is on NewInStretch.
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1567[23:03:05] <flayer> i really need to keep up more
1568[23:03:12] <flayer> and stay away from testing/unstable lol
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1572[23:06:18] <n4dir> i am wondering who might want to su and not get roots path. But there probably is a good reason behind the new way
1573[23:06:50] <greycat> ... don't get me started. :(
1574[23:07:20] <n4dir> i am used to the old way, so i always su - and then end in a place, /root, where i didn't want to be and have to cd back ...
1575[23:07:39] <flayer> and you can't go arrow up either :(
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1579[23:09:48] <n4dir> don't know how many times i ran make install for e16 and had nothing to make install, and it took me a few minutes to figure it out. lol
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1590[23:19:11] <RadoS> ratrace, both have "quiet" in boot params.
1591[23:19:52] <RadoS> ratrace, re "why is log of services at boot displayed on A but not on B despite both being installed the same way".
1592[23:20:36] <hendursaga> Anyone can recommend a decent, cheap ($15-20) USB WiFi adapter that would work with Debian 10 32-bit?
1593[23:20:37] <RadoS> "log" => "start up messages".
1594[23:20:38] <ratrace> RadoS: something else is different then. both have plymouth installed?
1595[23:20:42] <Maws> Installed a AMD R9 gfx card, and ran apt-get install firmware-amd-graphics
1596[23:20:42] <Maws> which turned into black screen problem - able to boot with "nomodeset" in grub, but how would I get the kernel back to using the integrated Intel graphics ? (i7 6gen)
1597[23:21:14] <ratrace> RadoS: or looking at it the other way around, if you remove "quiet" from both kernel command lines, both should show up systemd boot up log
1598[23:21:16] <RadoS> ratrace, you mean debian package?
1599[23:21:56] <RadoS> ratrace, I'll try removing on next reboot.
1600[23:22:09] <RadoS> "quiet" was set by installer, not by me.
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1605[23:27:59] <tomreyn> Maws: you could run randr setting the preferred provider in replaced-url
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1609[23:30:29] <ratrace> RadoS: you can remove "quiet" via grub menu temporarily, just as a test
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