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• 4[00:02:24] <bites> try mounting it explicitly with -t ubifs
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• 7[00:04:36] <BanHammor> that's how i got the error
• 8[00:04:44] <dutchfish> bites, that wont work if there isnt a volume yet or isnt attached
• 9[00:05:16] *** Quits: Spiffy (~Spiffy@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 10[00:05:32] <dutchfish> BanHammor, replaced-url
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• 16[00:06:34] <dutchfish> BanHammor, if this is a blank its more or less like ubiformat->ubiattach->make vol-?updatevol->mount
• 17[00:06:42] <e9uj> oops i accidentally removed /etc/apt/sources.list
• 18[00:06:52] <e9uj> would someone have a copy/paste of it, for debian 8.4?
• 19[00:07:00] <dutchfish> e9uj, Debian/stable?
• 20[00:07:03] <e9uj> yes
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• 23[00:07:15] <BanHammor> 8 is oldstable
• 24[00:07:21] <e9uj> i had 4 lines in it iirc
• 25[00:07:28] <e9uj> the default values after install
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• 28[00:08:02] <dutchfish> !sources.list
• 29[00:08:02] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Stretch" has three lines: "deb replaced-url
• 30[00:08:20] <e9uj> dutchfish: would you have the same for jessie? 8.4
• 31[00:08:39] <dutchfish> e9uj, simualr but s/stertch/jessie
• 32[00:08:52] <dutchfish> e9uj, simular but s/stretch/jessie*
• 33[00:08:55] <BanHammor> replaced-url
• 34[00:09:00] <dutchfish> sorry for typos
• 35[00:10:01] <BanHammor> okay, something is REALLY wrong, because mtd_erase and the like go absolutely bananas after 2GB
• 36[00:10:21] *** Quits: asdl (~rendler@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 37[00:10:23] <e9uj> dutchfish: is there correct replaced-url
• 38[00:10:32] <BanHammor> so i figure i need to debug the driver next, and that's quite a drag.
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• 41[00:11:29] <dutchfish> e9uj, that looks ok, unless you need deb-src lines too, ask the bot as stated for that
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• 43[00:11:53] <dutchfish> BanHammor, loks like it
• 44[00:11:57] <dutchfish> looks*
• 45[00:12:20] <dutchfish> BanHammor, Debian/stable?
• 46[00:12:32] *** Joins: dadinn (~DADINN@replaced-ip)
• 47[00:12:47] <dutchfish> ,kernel versions
• 48[00:12:48] <judd> (kernel [--release <squeeze>]) -- Outputs the kernel versions in the archive, optionally restricted to one release. Note that semi-major releases like etchnhalf are treated as separate releases.
• 49[00:12:57] *** Quits: DocHopper_ (~DocHopper@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 50[00:12:59] <e9uj> dutchfish: what is deb-src?
• 51[00:13:02] <BanHammor> mostly, but the kernel is custom
• 52[00:13:13] <e9uj> thanks BanHammor for the gen
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• 54[00:13:25] <dutchfish> BanHammor, ah ok, try the one from bpo first, if possible
• 55[00:13:53] <BanHammor> it's a board-specific extremely hacked together kernel -_-
• 56[00:14:01] <dutchfish> !deb-src
• 57[00:14:01] <dpkg> You can have apt download the <source package> from which a <binary package> was compiled using a "deb-src" line in your <sources.list>. A line like "deb-src replaced-url
• 58[00:14:41] <dutchfish> BanHammor, ouch
• 59[00:14:44] <uxfi> si!!!!
• 60[00:14:45] <uxfi> tolecnal;
• 61[00:14:51] <uxfi> oops
• 62[00:14:53] <uxfi> wrong window
• 63[00:14:54] <e9uj> dutchfish: oh ok it's a package which should eventually be manually compiled, ie sources?
• 64[00:14:59] <e9uj> ie source code?
• 65[00:15:19] <BanHammor> yeah, it's for manually compiling or looking at sources of a package
• 66[00:15:24] <e9uj> great
• 67[00:15:25] <dutchfish> e9uj, yes, the deb-src lines are for getting the sources of packages (sometimes needed)
• 68[00:15:33] <e9uj> thans guys!
• 69[00:15:36] <bites> debgen creates somewhat bad sources.
• 70[00:15:37] *** Quits: sh0kx (~sh0kx@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 71[00:15:38] <e9uj> problem solved, going to bed :)
• 72[00:15:42] <dutchfish> e9uj, yw
• 73[00:15:55] <e9uj> thanks! have a good day/night
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• 75[00:16:09] *** Quits: GenteelBen (~GenteelBe@replaced-ip) ()
• 76[00:16:14] <bites> using stable instead of the codename like debgen produces might not be the best idea.
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• 79[00:16:51] <BanHammor> i'm also a bit effed by them including backports by default
• 80[00:17:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1553
• 81[00:17:14] <pfred1> BanHammor comment them out
• 82[00:17:41] <BanHammor> i'm not the one who needed help with sources.list
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• 86[00:18:27] <pfred1> I never got hold to work
• 87[00:19:14] <pfred1> I tell apt to hold packages and it goes and installs them anyways
• 88[00:19:35] <bites> how do you put it on hold?
• 89[00:19:45] <pfred1> apt-mark hold
• 90[00:19:55] <pfred1> how do you hold a package?
• 91[00:20:15] *** Joins: thiras (~thiras@replaced-ip)
• 92[00:21:36] <bites> how do you do the update? apt or something like aptitude or synaptic?
• 93[00:21:48] *** Quits: voices (uid149471@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
• 94[00:21:51] <pfred1> aptitude or apt-get
• 95[00:22:01] <bites> aptitude uses a different database
• 96[00:22:19] <pfred1> hmm that could be why my holds get ignored I wonder who thought two databases was a good idea?
• 97[00:22:22] <bites> so you might have to aptitude hold as well.
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• 99[00:23:59] <pfred1> one system one set of packages
• 100[00:24:37] <pfred1> a case where one plus one does not equal two
• 101[00:26:35] *** Quits: thiras (~thiras@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 102[00:26:35] <n4dir> !hold
• 103[00:26:35] <dpkg> hold is a status flag that tells the package manager to not automatically upgrade a package. To hold a package 'echo $package hold|dpkg --set-selections' or 'aptitude hold $package'. Note that "aptitude hold" is ignored by other package managers (i.e. Update Manager, synaptic, apt-get) and aptitude won't necessarily use holds set with dpkg; see Debian bug #137771 (fixed in stretch). See also <hold list>, <unhold>.
• 104[00:26:39] <n4dir> usually worked for me
• 105[00:26:48] *** Quits: quantics (~pi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 106[00:27:03] <n4dir> but then: i didn't use aptitude. duh
• 107[00:27:05] <dutchfish> pfred1, why would you hold back a package in stable?? also see: replaced-url
• 108[00:27:05] <pfred1> that's funny because I'm on Stretch
• 109[00:27:31] <pfred1> dutchfish maybe because I don't want it installed?
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• 112[00:28:07] <dutchfish> pfred1, that might bite you. If dependecies arent complete.
• 113[00:28:19] <pfred1> dutchfish that's for me to worry about
• 114[00:28:22] *** Quits: sm0rux (~sm0rux@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 115[00:28:54] <dutchfish> pfred1, fair enough. But hard to help you with that.
• 116[00:29:00] <pfred1> dutchfish you might get bit even if you dot all of your i's and cross all of your t's too
• 117[00:29:12] <pfred1> remember the warranty
• 118[00:30:09] <BanHammor> seriously though, what is your actual use case for hold?
• 119[00:30:16] <pfred1> dutchfish This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
• 120[00:30:26] *** Quits: Kosmophile (~matt@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
• 121[00:30:48] <dutchfish> pfred1, sorry, what is your question?
• 122[00:30:52] <tobiasBora> Hello,
• 123[00:31:09] <pfred1> BanHammor installing meta packages and not pulling in al lthe crap that they do
• 124[00:31:09] <bites> hoi
• 125[00:31:32] *** Quits: L3gacy (~L3gacy@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 126[00:31:47] <pfred1> dutchfish why are you breathing my air?
• 127[00:31:49] <n4dir> pfred1: and --no-install-recommends doesn't do it?
• 128[00:31:55] <tobiasBora> I don't know why, but I just replaced an ubuntu with a Debian 9 on a friend computer, and now when it reboots it can't reach any OS, it just boots directly to the Bios setup "EZ mode": replaced-url
• 129[00:32:08] <pfred1> n4dir it may I've never tried it
• 130[00:32:17] *** Joins: A2666 (~A2666@replaced-ip)
• 131[00:32:21] <tobiasBora> to install Debian I needed to disable secure boot
• 132[00:32:35] <n4dir> you can also set it, either in /etc/apt/preferences or apt.conf (or such). But i don't know how exactly
• 133[00:32:43] <tobiasBora> but now it does not matter if I enable/disable it, I always come back to the Bios mode.
• 134[00:33:16] <pfred1> Debian doesn't come with a signed kernel?
• 135[00:33:48] <BanHammor> i think you can install a signed shim
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• 137[00:34:03] <pfred1> BanHammor I'd be surprised if that was not the case
• 138[00:34:23] <pfred1> but i don't believe in UEFI so I never use the stuff
• 139[00:34:27] <tobiasBora> pfred1: it looks like it's not the case...
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• 142[00:35:13] <tobiasBora> BanHammor: where do you find the images?
• 143[00:35:25] <BanHammor> okay, so what happens if you press "debian" or "windows" in your F8 menu?
• 144[00:35:50] <pfred1> BanHammor what is this "windows" that you speak of?
• 145[00:35:54] *** Quits: [Gort] (~gort@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 146[00:36:13] * cent4urus boa noite povo :)
• 147[00:36:21] <tobiasBora> BanHammor: it blink and then we come back to main menu
• 148[00:36:32] <BanHammor> that is, the EZ menu.
• 149[00:36:46] <tobiasBora> pfred1: he refers to the picture I showed on the link I guess
• 150[00:36:51] <tobiasBora> blinks*
• 151[00:37:26] <tobiasBora> BanHammor: yes, the EZ main display, first picture
• 152[00:37:31] <koollman> I do not think debian has a signed kernel
• 153[00:37:47] *** Joins: x28girl (~x28girl@replaced-ip)
• 154[00:37:58] <pfred1> koollman but you can sign it yourself can't you?
• 155[00:38:03] <koollman> replaced-url
• 156[00:38:07] *** Joins: Cosmophile (~matt@replaced-ip)
• 157[00:38:28] <koollman> although trying to follow the bug is funny
• 158[00:39:04] <pfred1> so glad i use legacy boot
• 159[00:39:39] <koollman> some day I will have a serious look at uefi... but so long as legacy work ... yeah
• 160[00:39:48] <dutchfish> the status of signing is pretty well documented, there are signed kernels, but the bootloaders currently can't do secure boot. see: replaced-url
• 161[00:40:02] <pfred1> koollman I thought about it with this system then I said nah I got enough fish to fry
• 162[00:40:46] <dutchfish> and yes you can boot a signed kernel from EFI
• 163[00:40:55] <dutchfish> pfred1, go fishing ;)
• 164[00:40:57] <koollman> pfred1: it's so low priority on my 'maybe I should' todo list, that I think we will have a major change in boot systems before I try :)
• 165[00:41:29] <pfred1> koollman for me UEFI was a major change one I'm happy to avoid
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• 168[00:42:26] <BanHammor> tobiasBora, try switching to MBR/BIOS mode and booting? this honestly seems like something borked the efi partition
• 169[00:42:36] *** Quits: msteinberg (~msteinber@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 170[00:42:49] <pfred1> I need to hit my BIOS to adjust my case fan I don't think Debian comes with Asus Fan expert does it?
• 171[00:42:51] <tobiasBora> BanHammor: would my friend need to reinstall debian?
• 172[00:43:06] <tobiasBora> and actually the thing is that even Windows does not boot, and he needs it
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• 174[00:43:31] <BanHammor> tobiasBora, we haven't diagnosed the problem yet.
• 175[00:43:38] <tobiasBora> pfred1: Debian comes with fishers, so maybe also Asus Fan export
• 176[00:44:02] *** Quits: elevated (~elevated@replaced-ip) (Quit: bye)
• 177[00:44:14] <pfred1> tobiasBora I just imported this fan so I'm planning on hanging onto it for a while
• 178[00:44:26] *** Quits: circ-user-a60eK (~circuser-@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 179[00:44:31] <BanHammor> you might also want to use rEFInd to regenerate the efi partition
• 180[00:45:38] *** Quits: gabrielc (~gabrielc@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 181[00:45:42] <tobiasBora> BanHammor: Ok. I'll tell my friend to do that. The thing is that he is now sleeping in another part of the world, so I'm affraid he won't answer tonight
• 182[00:45:49] <BanHammor> replaced-url
• 183[00:46:33] *** Joins: elevated (~elevated@replaced-ip)
• 184[00:46:42] <tobiasBora> BanHammor: This page will install just grub-efi, so at most it should repair debian, but I don't understand why/how Windows can also be broken
• 185[00:46:46] <pfred1> I really got on IRC to take a poll JACK or JACK2?
• 186[00:46:57] * pfred1 doesn't know jack about JACK
• 187[00:47:40] <BanHammor> tobiasBora, the EFI boot partition is shared.
• 188[00:48:00] <BanHammor> and presumably Debian borked it somehow
• 189[00:48:05] <tobiasBora> BanHammor: but then each OS share a separate folder now? How is it possible that debian killed windows?
• 190[00:48:31] <pfred1> EFI is just a tiny little partition
• 191[00:48:59] *** Quits: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 192[00:49:33] <tobiasBora> hum... strange...
• 193[00:49:35] *** Joins: PoL_ (~PoL_@replaced-ip)
• 194[00:49:42] <BanHammor> they don't share a "separate folder", they share a partition where data needed to boot from UEFI is.
• 195[00:49:52] *** Joins: markvandenborre (~mark@replaced-ip)
• 196[00:50:13] <tobiasBora> BanHammor: yes, but I mean on my computer debian is on the folder "Debian" on this fat16 partition, and Windows is in a different folder
• 197[00:50:16] <pfred1> yeah more bad ideas from peole that don't care
• 198[00:50:39] <markvandenborre> I'm looking for an app that runs on linux and will show openstreetmap maps offline
• 199[00:50:50] <markvandenborre> (routing is a bonus, but osm is a must)
• 200[00:50:54] <markvandenborre> any hints?
• 201[00:51:09] *** Quits: BCMM (~BCMM@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 202[00:51:11] <pfred1> markvandenborre I looked at Linux GPS software a while ago it exists
• 203[00:51:16] <BanHammor> tobiasBora, sure, but if the fat16 partition is corrupted, every boot breaks.
• 204[00:51:49] *** Joins: sgodoy (~sgodoy@replaced-ip)
• 205[00:51:51] <pfred1> I thought about setting up a laptop as a Linux GPS
• 206[00:51:55] <tobiasBora> BanHammor: ohhh you think that it's possible to corrupt the whole partition... Maybe yes... I'll ask him to give it a look.
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• 210[00:52:24] <markvandenborre> pfred1: do you remember any application?
• 211[00:52:30] <zomaar> Is it actually normal for sudo to only use the path of the invoking user?
• 212[00:52:45] <pfred1> markvandenborre just vague memories of what the applications looked like
• 213[00:52:48] <tobiasBora> markvandenborre: I tried a while ago, and OsmAnd (only for android unfortunately) beats all the linux programs
• 214[00:53:01] <dutchfish> zomaar, correct (per default)
• 215[00:53:03] *** Joins: OS-34800 (~OS-34800@replaced-ip)
• 216[00:53:14] <markvandenborre> tobiasBora: no android here
• 217[00:53:18] <zomaar> I have stuff like "sudo visudo" --> program not found
• 218[00:53:20] <pfred1> tobiasBora yeah what i saw looked pretty primitive
• 219[00:53:21] <BanHammor> tobiasBora, honestly he's better off using refind
• 220[00:53:34] *** Joins: orbiter (~orbiter@replaced-ip)
• 221[00:53:39] <zomaar> dutchfish: I know there is a secure path thing in sudoers but other than that, how can you actually get access to sbin paths?
• 222[00:53:52] <pfred1> zomaar did you install sudo?
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• 225[00:54:30] <BanHammor> markvandenborre, i think Marble uses OSM
• 226[00:54:35] <pfred1> zomaar use the full path
• 227[00:54:47] <zomaar> yes pfred
• 228[00:54:52] <zomaar> I have sudo installed
• 229[00:55:03] <zomaar> Yes I know I can do that but that is unworkable tyvm
• 230[00:55:05] *** Quits: x28girl (~x28girl@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 231[00:55:13] <zomaar> Please, let's stick to the topic
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• 234[00:55:33] <tobiasBora> BanHammor: Ok. So the step would be 1) try to boot on usb to check that EFI partition is not dead 2) from this same live system install refind. By the way if I remove the broken fat partition, will refind be able to recreate windows entries?
• 235[00:55:34] *** Joins: webdev007 (~webdev007@replaced-ip)
• 236[00:55:58] <tobiasBora> markvandenborre: if you want a list of all the softwares, you may found replaced-url
• 237[00:56:01] <pfred1> zomaar if yo uwant to use a root command as a user and sbin is not on your path you can use the full path to the executable
• 238[00:56:13] <zomaar> I know but I want to be able to use the normal command name
• 239[00:56:22] <pfred1> but then you also have to be doing something your user is allowed to do
• 240[00:56:38] <BanHammor> you should be able to at least boot windows via GRUB os-prober, tobiasBora
• 241[00:56:39] *** Quits: sgodoy (~sgodoy@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 242[00:56:41] <dutchfish> zomaar, in /etc/sudoers you should have a line Defaults secure_path="/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin"
• 243[00:56:49] <tobiasBora> markvandenborre: actually I should try to remember, I think I found a nice one... Maybe marble, I'll check
• 244[00:57:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1562
• 245[00:57:04] <pfred1> I can't believe I need to root privs to do dmesg now
• 246[00:57:13] <pfred1> that's so inconvenient
• 247[00:57:26] <zomaar> Dutchfish ah yes I'm sorry there is one thing I didn't want to mention so easily ;-)
• 248[00:57:40] <solosoft> is you need to get to sbin /usr/sbin add them to your path in bashrc or whatever you use
• 249[00:57:45] <tobiasBora> BanHammor: what do you mean? even if I recreated from scrach the UEFI partition?
• 250[00:57:46] <zomaar> Dutchfish but now at least I know that that is the default, I thought I had added that myself
• 251[00:57:47] *** Joins: RayReddington (ad35440f@replaced-ip)
• 252[00:57:51] <RayReddington> where is hicjklen
• 253[00:57:56] <RayReddington> wheeeereee isss hicckklleennn
• 254[00:58:00] <pfred1> solosoft you don't need to add anything to your path
• 255[00:58:12] <zomaar> Dutchfish secure_path is disabled when you use exempt_group
• 256[00:58:26] <dutchfish> zomaar, correct
• 257[00:58:47] <zomaar> Which is really annoying in this sense
• 258[00:59:22] *** Joins: pax (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 259[00:59:28] <zomaar> I guess I will concoct a sudo -i thing that will give me back my current directory
• 260[00:59:31] *** Joins: niarek (5cb16327@replaced-ip)
• 261[00:59:34] <dutchfish> zomaar, then add Defaults env_keep += "PATH"
• 262[00:59:57] <zomaar> Does that keep the path of the target user?
• 263[01:00:02] *** Quits: weez17 (~isaac@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 264[01:00:03] <dutchfish> zomaar, yes
• 265[01:00:09] <zomaar> Oh right, thanks
• 266[01:00:33] <pfred1> zomaar sudo -s
• 267[01:00:38] <dutchfish> zomaar, also take a peak at the shell defaults
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• 273[01:02:24] <zomaar> dutchfish: You mean to make sure the sudo actually uses the target user path?
• 274[01:02:40] <zomaar> Doesn't env_keep use the invoking user's path?
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• 277[01:03:23] <dutchfish> zomaar, that way the path environment is added to the secure_path.
• 278[01:04:29] <dutchfish> zomaar, that is the secure_path that is configured in /etc/sudoers
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• 281[01:04:49] <zomaar> The problem is probably that the target user doesn't have a default PATH unless bash is first run
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• 284[01:05:25] <dutchfish> zomaar, and also the defaults for the exemot_group
• 285[01:05:39] <dutchfish> zomaar, exempt_group*
• 286[01:06:27] <dutchfish> zomaar, iow you need also Defaults exempt_group = EXEMPTUSER
• 287[01:06:52] <dutchfish> zomaar, that should round it up
• 288[01:06:53] *** Quits: niarek (5cb16327@replaced-ip) ()
• 289[01:07:20] <dutchfish> zomaar, its a bit finicky
• 290[01:07:59] *** Quits: hwm4rgs (~hwm4rgs@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 291[01:08:15] <zomaar> But wouldn't env_keep add the invoking user's path instead of the target user's path?
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• 294[01:08:57] <dutchfish> zomaar, yes
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• 297[01:09:30] <dutchfish> zomaar, otherwise around you just use sudo -s
• 298[01:10:07] *** Quits: BCMM (~BCMM@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 299[01:10:22] <zomaar> A different thing, how can you deal with sudo never using any aliases?
• 300[01:11:19] <dutchfish> zomaar, at the top my head something like: User_Alias EXEMPTUSER = exempt
• 301[01:11:34] <dutchfish> (didnt test that)
• 302[01:11:45] *** Quits: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 303[01:11:46] * teatime is also interested in the current topic. I work around the difficulties / setup the config various ways, but could learn more.
• 304[01:12:22] <dutchfish> teatime, and it is even more confusing on other distros replaced-url
• 305[01:12:58] <dutchfish> teatime, on Debian the mapages are really good
• 306[01:13:03] <dutchfish> manpages*
• 307[01:13:44] *** Quits: noobineer (~noobineer@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 308[01:14:28] <teatime> I recently discovered pam_env, /etc/environment and ~/.pam_environment, and it was a forehead-slap moment, compared to as much brain-effort as the simple "please set some environment variables for this host/user" has cost me
• 309[01:14:38] <solosoft> anyone tryed doas in linux? just wondering ?
• 310[01:14:43] <n4dir> zomaar: something like this wouldn't work: alias sfdisk='sudo fdisk -l ' ?
• 311[01:14:43] <n4dir>
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• 317[01:16:01] <n4dir> though i gotta say that with history expansion i don't see much use in aliases anyway.
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• 319[01:17:51] <teatime> I think he means things like 'sudo ls /some/secret/directory' don't use his user's, e.v., alias ls='ls --color=auto'
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• 324[01:18:28] <n4dir> yeah, but i proposed to just "double" them, including sudo inside the alias. I can't put it well. sorry
• 325[01:18:41] <markvandenborre> BanHammor: using marble indeed
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• 327[01:18:53] <markvandenborre> there is an option to download the tiles around your route
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• 329[01:19:55] <teatime> n4dir: works for some things well, but doesn't solve the general case
• 330[01:20:00] <n4dir> also i wonder if using functions instead of aliase might work around his original question. i seem to recall #bash proposes them in favor of aliases anyway
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• 332[01:20:21] <teatime> then again, the general problem is actually a feature (that you can turn off) intended to avoid compromising your system's baseline security more than necessary
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• 336[01:21:20] <BanHammor> alias sudo=/home/user/.local/evilsudo --record-all-passwords
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• 338[01:22:40] <teatime> zomaar: did your original question get answered satisfactorially?
• 339[01:23:05] <teatime> it seemed like the answers given might have digressed away from it
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• 342[01:26:32] <teatime> zomaar: if not, then I think the answer is what you/dutchfish discussed, + adding /sbin /usr/sbin /usr/local/sbin to your user's $PATH as well in your user's shell startup, didn't really get mentioned but may have been obvious
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• 345[01:27:23] <teatime> so that both 'ip' and 'sudo ip' work w/o saying /sbin/ip.
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• 347[01:31:03] <somiaj> since ip is in /bin/ip, I doubt that is the issue. It was for ifconfig, but not ip
• 348[01:31:59] <somiaj> (though I missed what binary the question was for)
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• 351[01:32:26] <somiaj> oh /sbin/ip -> /bin/ip is a symbolic link...
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• 353[01:33:06] <teatime> heh... I was going to use ifconfig as my example, then thought to head-off "ifconfig is deprecated" replies
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• 355[01:34:54] <somiaj> haha, well one nice thing is they put ip in a nicer place too (:
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• 357[01:36:49] <somiaj> wonder if ever usrmerge will become more common then /sbin/ip -> /bin/ip, but /bin -> /usr/bin....
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• 359[01:38:18] <bites> symlinks all the way down.
• 360[01:38:46] <somiaj> teatime: though I agree, not having ifconfig in $PATH due to it being in /sbin was always an annoycance I ahd to work around.
• 361[01:39:08] <somiaj> and I think ifconfig was one of the only binaries I found that it anyoing to not have /sbin in my $PATH
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• 370[01:45:30] <zomaar> teatime: I actually concocted a rather difficult shell function to use sudo -i while using sh to set the path back to my current path (I mean cwd) and then execute the command (+ parameters) using eval after wrapping them in "escaped quotes"
• 371[01:45:42] <zomaar> hahaha
• 372[01:45:43] *** Quits: bolt (~r00t@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 373[01:46:26] <zomaar> But it works for now, I'll see when it breaks
• 374[01:47:04] <zomaar> As a result, "sudo bash" leaves me in my current directory even though it uses sudo -i :p
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• 378[01:49:57] <teatime> somiaj: the security feature I was referring to was not trusting the invoking user's custom path
• 379[01:50:29] <teatime> somiaj: but, yes, adding the sbin's to my user's path is one of my first changes on a new whatever
• 380[01:50:37] <zomaar> Aye but then when you become a little liberal with not requiring any passwords it turns the whole feature off
• 381[01:51:08] <somiaj> ifconfig was one of the few binaries I regurally used that wasn't in my default users $PATH, so I never updated it, just learned to type /sbin/ifconfig
• 382[01:51:13] *** Joins: bolt (~r00t@replaced-ip)
• 383[01:51:33] <EnchanterTim> Hello
• 384[01:51:46] *** Quits: cthonic (~otho@replaced-ip) (Quit: Time wasted on IRC: 11 minutes 39 seconds)
• 385[01:52:10] <teatime> zomaar: both distrusting user's environment and requiring a password are trying to mitigate the same sort of thing, the user being tricked into running malicious code
• 386[01:52:17] <EnchanterTim> I have a debian inside debian, using systemd-nspawn, and I have apps/sound etc working with audio, but I can't get glx working. How can I share the glx of host machine to a debian container
• 387[01:52:25] <EnchanterTim> libGL error: failed to load driver: swrast
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• 391[01:54:30] <zomaar> teatime: It's real cute but I think you can get around anything with expect
• 392[01:54:43] *** Parts: lachm (~lachm@replaced-ip) ()
• 393[01:54:45] <zomaar> teatime: And on a GUI it is very easy to install a keylogger as well
• 394[01:55:02] *** Joins: tpanarch1st (~tpanarch1@replaced-ip)
• 395[01:55:21] <zomaar> Maybe not on a server
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• 399[01:57:02] <zomaar> So there are two cases: the user is compromised by password, or by service/client program
• 400[01:57:11] <zomaar> If by password, sudo with password will provide no protection
• 401[01:57:30] <teatime> zomaar: requiring a password helps mitigate the user running code that unexpectedly uses sudo to elevate privs, and distrusting the path helps mitigate the user running code that manipulates the path to truck the user into running it later w/ elevated privs
• 402[01:58:05] *** Quits: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 403[01:58:38] <teatime> neither are complete protection, nor are either universally useful in every use case
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• 406[02:01:19] <zomaar> Which is why I think it is generally false security and more trouble than it's worth, but that's mostly because I become sick from having to type unexpected sudo passwords all the time
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• 408[02:01:44] <zomaar> I hate this stuff being so unpredictable
• 409[02:01:56] <zomaar> Or tab completion adding a space
• 410[02:02:01] *** Quits: kliq (~cliq@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 411[02:02:04] <zomaar> But not if an identical file with a longer name exists
• 412[02:02:08] <zomaar> And vi also not adding a space
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• 416[02:04:02] <zomaar> I mean you are in a sudo editor, leave the editor and have to type your password again on the next invocation
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• 418[02:04:38] <somiaj> you can change the sudo timeout for a shell before it asks for a password again.
• 419[02:04:45] <somiaj> though I guess I don't do that much as root that I find this a pain
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• 422[02:04:57] <zomaar> I know
• 423[02:05:15] <zomaar> Well I don't know how to turn my entire system into "user friendly"
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• 427[02:06:10] <zomaar> Still makes no difference, I might be in the editor for an hour
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• 430[02:06:32] <zomaar> I might run 20 different sub-shells within the editor all root
• 431[02:06:37] <somiaj> what are you editing?
• 432[02:06:38] <zomaar> Then I leave the editor and bam no root anymore
• 433[02:07:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1552
• 434[02:07:04] <zomaar> I don't know, in this case I was referring to apache stuff I guess
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• 436[02:07:16] <zomaar> Can be anything really
• 437[02:07:36] <somiaj> I guess I just don't find myself editing system stuff that often.
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• 439[02:07:58] <zomaar> Even the vi subshell thing is a pain to use :p
• 440[02:08:02] *** Joins: Tr4sK (~tr4sk@replaced-ip)
• 441[02:08:28] <zomaar> With my bad short-term memory ;-)
• 442[02:08:38] <zomaar> "Wait, am I in a subshell or not?"
• 443[02:08:41] *** Joins: whiskey_soda (~whiskey_s@replaced-ip)
• 444[02:08:43] <zomaar> "Do I press ctrl-D now?"
• 445[02:08:53] <zomaar> "Shit"
• 446[02:09:06] *** Quits: whiskey_soda (~whiskey_s@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 447[02:09:16] <zomaar> So then I run pstree -s $$
• 448[02:09:24] <KR> Hello. I was directed here about a certain prototype for the Nintendo 64. Has anyone heard anything about this recently?
• 449[02:09:31] <zomaar> Or I check the recent command history to know where I am
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• 452[02:09:46] <KR> I thought that maybe someone here brought it up in the recent past. (?)
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• 456[02:12:12] <zomaar> Every day at least 5 times I press ctrl-D and then exit the SSH session instead of the subshell
• 457[02:12:23] <zomaar> Or something like that in any case
• 458[02:12:26] *** Parts: KR (2ee5acb7@replaced-ip) ()
• 459[02:15:20] <zomaar> But now I solved my sudo problem completely
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• 470[02:22:00] <pfred1> zomaar just run as root problem solved
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• 472[02:23:05] <pfred1> I want to know when they're going to finish multiplayer in supertuxkart
• 473[02:23:08] <zomaar> I'm not gonna respond to such comments pfred1
• 474[02:24:36] <pfred1> I built the git version last week and it's still not done!
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• 519[02:58:36] <crestfallen> hi anyone comment on virtual Qubes OS for security?
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• 532[03:09:14] <annadane> crestfallen, may want to try #privacytech on irc.oftc.net or elsewhere, this channel is really for debian support
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• 542[03:13:01] <acidtripper> Hi
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• 584[03:49:12] <Guest70705> frfr
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• 590[03:51:17] <Guest70705> boom
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• 593[03:52:41] <nomad__> hi
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• 595[03:54:25] <nomad__> n
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• 598[03:57:26] <nomad__> i need some information about fluxion-3in kali-linux
• 599[03:57:37] <nomad__> i need some information about fluxion-3 in kali-linux
• 600[03:57:39] <nomad__> i need some information about fluxion-3 in kali-linux
• 601[03:57:41] <nomad__> i need some information about fluxion-3 in kali-linux
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• 604[03:58:12] <nomad__> i need some information about fluxion-3 in kali-linux
• 605[03:58:39] <nomad__> do u know some about it cyborg
• 606[03:58:44] <nomad__> do u know some about it cyborg-one
• 607[03:58:45] <nomad__> do u know some about it cyborg-one
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• 609[03:58:47] <nomad__> do u know some about it cyborg-one
• 610[03:58:55] <krytarik> nomad__: ...?
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• 612[03:59:21] <nomad__> i need some information about fluxion-3 in kali-linux
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• 618[04:00:40] <nomad__> what the f,aint nobody talking or what
• 619[04:01:25] <nomad__> im about to drop some bomb in this motha fffffffffuuuuuuuubfdsgfdgfdsckaaaaa
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• 628[04:05:21] <cyberfunk> hao dare you?
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• 632[04:07:16] <cyberfunk> visual boy advance is in your repos... although visualboy advance-m has closed a buffer vulnerability of visual boy advance ages ago. why is this not in the repos but the unsecureversion is? *edgy stare*
• 633[04:07:56] <cyberfunk> 0
• 634[04:08:04] <cyberfunk> 0_0
• 635[04:09:08] <cyberfunk> oh? is this more suited for the testing chat you say?
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• 637[04:10:34] <cyberfunk> well I will voice my opinions there! But you when you close your eyes tonight... think of your security philosophy when pushing our dirty packages!
• 638[04:11:19] <cyberfunk> Off I go!
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• 650[04:22:10] <benrob0329> Has the kwin-style-qtcurve been completely removed from stretch?
• 651[04:22:38] <benrob0329> Like, only stretch. Not sid, not wheezy
• 652[04:22:45] <benrob0329> Just stretch?
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• 654[04:23:22] <coruja> ,v kwin-style-qtcurve
• 655[04:23:23] <judd> Package: kwin-style-qtcurve on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.8.12-2; jessie: 1.8.14-3+b2
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• 657[04:24:54] <coruja> ,v qtcurve
• 658[04:24:55] <judd> Package: qtcurve on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.8.12-2; jessie: 1.8.14-3+b2; stretch: 1.8.18+git20160320-3d8622c-3+deb9u1; buster: 1.8.18+git20160320-3d8622c-5+b2; sid: 1.8.18+git20160320-3d8622c-5+b2
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• 660[04:25:24] <coruja> replaced-url
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• 677[04:34:16] <benrob0329> coruja: so, yes they were removed?
• 678[04:34:31] <benrob0329> Which means I need to switch to testing if I want them?
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• 680[04:35:03] <coruja> have you read the link i posted?
• 681[04:35:39] <coruja> 'Renamed to qtcurve'
• 682[04:36:18] <coruja> ,v kde-style-qtcurve
• 683[04:36:20] <judd> Package: kde-style-qtcurve on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.8.12-2; jessie: 1.8.14-3+b2
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• 685[04:36:43] <coruja> ,v kde-style-qtcurve-qt5
• 686[04:36:44] <judd> Package: kde-style-qtcurve-qt5 on amd64 -- stretch: 1.8.18+git20160320-3d8622c-3+deb9u1; buster: 1.8.18+git20160320-3d8622c-5+b2; sid: 1.8.18+git20160320-3d8622c-5+b2
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• 688[04:37:02] <coruja> ^ maybe you want to install that one
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• 703[04:47:54] <benrob0329> coruja: I have 3
• 704[04:48:00] <benrob0329> *all three
• 705[04:48:14] <benrob0329> Rebooting to see if everything needed a restart to find it
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• 707[04:49:00] <coruja> ,v needrestart
• 708[04:49:01] <judd> Package: needrestart on amd64 -- wheezy-backports: 1.2-7~bpo70+1; jessie: 1.2-8+deb8u1; jessie-backports: 2.11-2~bpo8+1; stretch: 2.11-3; buster: 2.11-4; sid: 2.11-4; experimental: 2.11+git20180213-1
• 709[04:49:31] <benrob0329> Nope, not there
• 710[04:50:12] <coruja> then someone with more insight into kde should take over ;)
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• 723[05:03:22] <benrob0329> I specifically need the kwin qtcurve style
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• 775[05:40:04] <awal1> how to find initial install of x pkg without without checking the whole apt history?
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• 781[05:44:39] <teatime> I don't know of a way besides grepping the logs
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• 846[06:52:11] <CrazyTux> which DE along with Debian stable is most suitable for linux newbies?
• 847[06:52:29] <CrazyTux> someone who has been using Windows.
• 848[06:52:41] <annadane> i guess the stock answer is ubuntu or mint
• 849[06:53:56] <teatime> CrazyTux: at one time I would suggest ubuntu to such people, but it seems to have gotten progressively glitchier, so now I just say Debian across the board.
• 850[06:54:14] <annadane> yeah, debian is the most solid choice and i'd rather recommend it compared to those two
• 851[06:54:31] <teatime> there is probably a better answer but I don't keep up w/ a lot of distros
• 852[06:54:47] <CrazyTux> teatime, please elaborate
• 853[06:54:59] <teatime> not sure what else I can say
• 854[06:55:18] <CrazyTux> progressively glitchier?
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• 856[06:56:14] <teatime> my less technical friends that I turned onto ubuntu have increasingly ran into bugs and instability, and it turns out they seem happier w/ Debian
• 857[06:56:47] <koollman> CrazyTux: I would say gnome or kde. pretty easy
• 858[06:57:34] <annadane> those are desktop environments, not distributions
• 859[06:57:40] <CrazyTux> ok. which is lighter of the two, gnome or kde?
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• 861[06:57:45] <teatime> sigh
• 862[06:57:55] <Sir_Designer> if you have a slow machine, xfce would be a lighter desktop
• 863[06:57:56] <koollman> annadane: 'which DE'
• 864[06:58:05] <CrazyTux> ok
• 865[06:58:18] <annadane> oh "de"
• 866[06:58:23] <teatime> ah, me and annadane both mis-read it I guess
• 867[06:58:31] <annadane> they said "which de along with debian stable" which is a bit of a nonsensical question
• 868[06:58:48] <annadane> but it makes sense depending on how you define stuff... anyway, moving on
• 869[06:58:48] <themill> why?
• 870[06:59:18] <CrazyTux> is Debian testing suitable for newbies?
• 871[06:59:32] <teatime> CrazyTux: the 'default' is Gnome, it's kindof the most complete and most polished in some ways, and also does put a lot of effort into considering new users.
• 872[06:59:35] <CrazyTux> is it a rolling release version of Debian?
• 873[07:00:00] <teatime> xfce is lighter weight, more traditional looking and acting
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• 875[07:00:02] <teatime> you can try them all
• 876[07:00:08] <CrazyTux> teatime, ok
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• 878[07:00:18] <koollman> CrazyTux: mostly, yes. I wouldn't recommend it to a newbie. But it is mostly ok
• 879[07:00:20] <teatime> I'd stick w/ stable if I were you
• 880[07:00:22] <annadane> yeah, i probably did just misread. :D
• 881[07:00:25] <annadane> sorry
• 882[07:00:59] <teatime> I mean, depends what you want. feel free to experiment and explore.
• 883[07:01:05] <CrazyTux> ok. I need to install a stable linux distro for a friend of mine. I will consider Debian Stable with Gnome, then.
• 884[07:01:21] <t3st3r> my favorite DE would be xfce - light and not too hard to get running and not too bugged. and can behave more or less like windows did
• 885[07:01:42] <t3st3r> without nasty experiments on users like kde and gnome try to do all the time
• 886[07:01:56] <teatime> that's a good description, heh
• 887[07:02:10] <annadane> just be aware if you use gnome that it's keyboard focused and doesn't come with the minimize button activated by default
• 888[07:02:17] <koollman> t3st3r: 'all the time' in debian stable is 'not very often', anyway ;)
• 889[07:02:18] <annadane> it can be confusing at first
• 890[07:02:55] <CrazyTux> how about Mate or Cinnamon?
• 891[07:03:03] <annadane> pretty much everyone likes xfce
• 892[07:03:06] <t3st3r> so whatever but friends of mine who were using windows appreciated XFCE as it keeps familiar workflows and does not breaks
• 893[07:03:17] <CrazyTux> ok
• 894[07:03:26] <annadane> not sure about cinnamon, mate is quite nice though
• 895[07:03:27] <t3st3r> well, debian stable could be a bit outdated for desktops but works for undemanding users
• 896[07:03:38] <koollman> CrazyTux: feel free to try. you are not limited to one
• 897[07:04:05] <CrazyTux> ok
• 898[07:04:17] <t3st3r> CrazyTux> I do not use that. At first glance XFCE needs less dependencies and does not attempts to feed me with slow/resource hog python components.
• 899[07:04:31] <t3st3r> could be very valuable for users with slow computers, etc
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• 901[07:04:48] <CrazyTux> ok. I will try Debian Stable with Xfce then.
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• 903[07:05:27] <annadane> "no, wait!" <600 other recommendations>
• 904[07:05:46] <t3st3r> are there 600 DEs at all? oO
• 905[07:05:51] <annadane> there are not.
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• 908[07:06:32] <annadane> my own preference is not to install more than 1 as it just leads to cruft
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• 910[07:06:40] <CrazyTux> how about MX Linux or Devuan?
• 911[07:06:58] <t3st3r> sure, it leads to cruft, and a lot of it...
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• 914[07:07:13] <RayReddington> hicklen are you there mhicklen are you theeereee
• 915[07:07:16] <DerLGm> i like openbox
• 916[07:07:18] <RayReddington> also why cant i msg people
• 917[07:07:21] <t3st3r> CrazyTux> speaking for myself I'm more than fine with systemd.
• 918[07:07:26] <RayReddington> oh nvm
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• 920[07:07:42] <CrazyTux> ok
• 921[07:07:42] <t3st3r> it allows me to do rather complicated system level things easy
• 922[07:08:22] <CrazyTux> I am just a beginner. Don't have much knowledge of systemd and non-systemd.
• 923[07:08:51] <t3st3r> I guess best way is to try both approaches and see what you would like yourself. Same goes for DEs actually.
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• 925[07:09:20] <t3st3r> could be time consuming but someone's else experience != your experience :P
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• 927[07:11:00] <t3st3r> so you could get really different ideas on same topics and you wouldn't know without trying that
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• 931[07:14:15] <CrazyTux> ok
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• 933[07:16:11] <CrazyTux> if I want to install Windows 10 in Virtual Box with Debian as a Host OS and wish to install SAP ERP on Windows, how much disk space would be needed?
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• 935[07:16:42] <CrazyTux> I want to install SAP IDES.
• 936[07:17:19] <CrazyTux> and which package is better? Gnome Boxes or Oracle Virtual Box?
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• 941[07:21:12] <awal1> CrazyTux, for newbies, virtualbox is easier to manage than qemu-kvm; gnome boxes is heavy and not really mature, last time I tried it, like 1 year ago, maybe
• 942[07:21:31] <CrazyTux> ok
• 943[07:21:50] <awal1> if not used to gnu/linux, I seriously recommend kde
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• 946[07:22:18] <awal1> but it is a heavy DE; so mte should be more suitable
• 947[07:22:24] <awal1> mate
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• 949[07:22:41] <alkisg> mate has a "redmont panel" layout that is a bit more familiar to windows users
• 950[07:22:53] <awal1> is light, user friendly and stable (it is a fork of gnome2)
• 951[07:23:48] <awal1> xfce is a better choice but you'll have to tweak it
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• 954[07:24:09] <CrazyTux> ok
• 955[07:24:17] * alkisg doesn't understand why xfce is a better choice than mate, but anyway, personal opinions there and all that
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• 957[07:24:55] <alkisg> xfce is a project started by and maintained by a few developers. mate is a project started from a company (gnome 2) and then forked and maintained by a few developers, so imho it's way more mature
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• 959[07:26:12] <annadane> kde isn't especially heavyweight but if you're on a hard drive the boot is about 15-20 seconds as compared to much less for xfce/mate
• 960[07:26:30] <awal1> it is a fork of gnome2. many stuff have been added to mate, which made it not really solid as gnome2 was
• 961[07:26:35] <annadane> HDD i mean as opposed to an SSD
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• 964[07:27:12] <awal1> I personally use justa window manager (openbox, almost); but I tried them all and found xfce the most stable
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• 966[07:27:40] <Unit193> In the end it's all just taste.
• 967[07:27:41] <awal1> more feature= more bugs
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• 969[07:27:53] <awal1> the case of gnome/kde
• 970[07:28:01] <annadane> well it's taste but not if you don't know what to look for initially
• 971[07:28:04] <alkisg> afaik lxde and xfce don't even implement inhibitors, so you can lose works by just logging out
• 972[07:28:09] <alkisg> *work
• 973[07:28:17] <t3st3r> so kde proven to be buggy and laggy for me, even on powerful computers.
• 974[07:28:35] <awal1> ^yeah
• 975[07:28:44] <t3st3r> not to mention I do not want SQL databases or something to store 50 contacts or so in facility no programs I use cares of
• 976[07:29:06] <t3st3r> at the end of day I do not want to be DBA and KDE keeps insisting I have to
• 977[07:29:38] <annadane> i do really like xfce's really fine grained control center options or whatever it's called
• 978[07:29:54] <t3st3r> So its funny and I've used it eventually but got fed up with all bloat I never use.
• 979[07:30:01] <annadane> MATE i found everything is hidden within menus within menus but i never extensively look into any of this stuff
• 980[07:30:39] <t3st3r> XFCE just haves enough settings in GUI not to feel pain configuring everything hard way, yet not bloated like others :)
• 981[07:30:42] <annadane> but it's linux of course, you can change the behavior of just about anything
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• 983[07:31:12] <awal1> CrazyTux, as you see, it is a matter of choices/tastes/experiences. try them all then choose :P
• 984[07:31:27] <t3st3r> KDE affords more glamourous themes, etc. But, honestly, I can't even configure damn wi-fi on laptop because plasmoid weird thing misbehaves.
• 985[07:31:29] *** Quits: clownface (~dominik@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 986[07:31:29] <annadane> now let's talk about text editors
• 987[07:32:09] <t3st3r> sure, I can do iw dev wlan0 scan blah-doh, and set up wpa_supplicant, but it is a bit too long to connect to net in cafe this way!
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• 989[07:32:35] <CrazyTux> ok
• 990[07:32:49] <awal1> you may end using 'dwm', CrazyTux, after all :P
• 991[07:32:51] <t3st3r> So when it comes to bugs, some bugs CAN bite, doh.
• 992[07:32:51] <annadane> but yeah i do feel xfce is the most intuitive of all of them, pretty much
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• 994[07:33:50] <t3st3r> and gnome just got obsessed on "user is retarded" so much I can't make my laptop going to sleep reasonably from GUI settings.
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• 996[07:34:27] <annadane> i just hate xfce's stupid ugly default green wallpaper :P
• 997[07:34:30] <alkisg> annadane: I do have a question about editors, why there's no famous text-based editor that uses all the familiar shortcuts that gui editors like gedit use, and people insist on the vi/emacs/nano debate :P
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• 999[07:34:33] <t3st3r> sure, it could be hard for retards to configure sleep mode of laptop. But it's even harder for me to configure it outside of GUI :)
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• 1001[07:35:35] <t3st3r> fortunately wallpaper is probably one of easiest things to fix :)
• 1002[07:35:43] <awal1> I said xfce is great bcoz it is light, stable very customizable . and I like its conservatism
• 1003[07:35:46] <n4dir> alkisg: you might just as well ask the other way around, i guess. :-)
• 1004[07:35:48] <awal1> 'geany' is good
• 1005[07:36:29] <alkisg> n4dir: imagine all gui textboxes in every application and browser using vi-like shortcuts :D The death of the internet!
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• 1007[07:36:59] <t3st3r> have to agree with that :). I like it too. Some neat features without bloat of heavy-weight IDEs.
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• 1009[07:37:19] <n4dir> i seem to recall something like vimperator or such for firefox, but i for one sure didn't get the hang of it :-)
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• 1020[07:44:31] <CrazyTux> is LXQT stable?
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• 1032[07:48:23] <jordanm> CrazyTux: stable is debian terminology means that it doesn't change, so yes, in stable it's stable
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• 1039[07:52:46] <t3st3r> but sometimes stable could mean "stale" :P
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• 1046[07:55:53] <t3st3r> so running debian stable on desktop is basically fine for old HW when one does not wants brand new programs. But if one wants new SW versions or uses recent HW...
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• 1049[07:57:10] <n4dir> huh?
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• 1059[08:00:46] <CrazyTux> is Lxqt bugfree?
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• 1062[08:02:05] <Unit193> Pretty sure no software is, but I'm not sure I'd want to use the version in stable.
• 1063[08:02:42] <n4dir> there is always bugs.debian.org
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• 1065[08:02:52] <CrazyTux> ok
• 1066[08:03:07] <n4dir> though lxqt is so small, i see no reason not to install it and have a look and decide what you think of it.
• 1067[08:03:19] <CrazyTux> what's your opinion on rolling release distros like Solus?
• 1068[08:03:39] <n4dir> i am with awal1 though, xfce is a safe bet.
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• 1072[08:05:12] <jordanm> CrazyTux: I haven't heard of Solus, but because I use my machine as my primary machine for my occupational work, I very much dislike rolling distros
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• 1074[08:05:47] <jordanm> if you need specific software up to date (which is typically very little), you can mange that small subset manually
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• 1077[08:06:17] <CrazyTux> jordanm, why do you think rolling release distros are unsuitable for that?
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• 1081[08:08:04] <jordanm> CrazyTux: every change is a potential for issues
• 1082[08:08:17] <CrazyTux> ok
• 1083[08:08:33] <n4dir> and if you don't upgrade them regularly, you might run into more problems when upgrading loads of software at once.
• 1084[08:08:40] <jordanm> CrazyTux: no rolling release distro can invest enough QA time into every package release to ensure it's not going to break for someone's use case
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• 1086[08:08:51] <jordanm> CrazyTux: non-rolling releases barely can
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• 1088[08:09:15] <CrazyTux> ok
• 1089[08:09:43] <jordanm> it's up to you to decide what is an acceptable amount of risk for your machine or work process to cease function and require fixing
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• 1091[08:10:39] <CrazyTux> ok
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• 1094[08:13:18] <n4dir> while i mostly agree with jordanm, for such questions you will get all kind of answers. You will have to decide for yourself ( to ask might make sense, but in the end it's a question of many things, like jordanm already pointed out)
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• 1108[08:23:28] <CrazyTux> ok
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• 1112[08:24:34] <CrazyTux> guys, thanks a lot for all this info.
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• 1114[08:24:42] <CrazyTux> have a great day.
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• 1133[08:33:27] <evilroots> ANYONE HAVEA ORANGE PI?
• 1134[08:33:39] <evilroots> i need some help, i cannot get it to work on JUST wifi
• 1135[08:33:50] <evilroots> it only works if i havea cable pluged into it
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• 1137[08:34:03] <evilroots> :C
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• 1140[08:35:46] <evilroots> i got my LOTW postcard but my dogs ate it
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• 1144[08:37:26] <breakcoreboy> hi guys
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• 1146[08:37:37] <breakcoreboy> anyone up?
• 1147[08:38:00] <breakcoreboy> im having trouble trying to have sound in a lenovo laptop in debian sid :(
• 1148[08:39:04] <n4dir> !next
• 1149[08:39:04] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
• 1150[08:39:06] <n4dir> damn
• 1151[08:39:09] <n4dir> !debian-next
• 1152[08:39:10] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
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• 1154[08:39:46] <breakcoreboy> ok, thanks
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• 1156[08:40:12] <breakcoreboy> another happy customer leaves the building
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• 1159[08:40:47] <n4dir> i doubt it relates to the problem, but it is like it is, and if using sid or testing, then #debian-next is the right channel (i for one sure wouldn't know how to help you)
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• 1242[09:31:51] <zomaar> If an upstream doesn't have any man pages in the repository, can I assume they were added by the Debian project?
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• 1254[09:37:09] <somiaj> zomaar: you can look at the change log/debian patches to see where they came from.
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• 1256[09:38:23] <zomaar> Looking at the changelog the debian maintainers did most of it
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• 1306[10:21:17] <zomaar> somiaj: I just submitted a patch through the bugtracker, it was just a manpage improvement, thanks ;-)
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• 1318[10:26:43] <zomaar> Although I am not getting a response from the bugtracker and of course I made an error in the title
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• 1324[10:29:50] <zomaar> You ought to get a direct response from the bugtracker right?
• 1325[10:29:52] <zomaar> Using reportbug
• 1326[10:30:29] <somiaj> as the bug submitter, you are by default on the mailing list for any additional info sent to the bug report.
• 1327[10:30:39] <zomaar> But I cannot even find the bug
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• 1329[10:30:47] <somiaj> give it a little bit
• 1330[10:30:52] <zomaar> Alright
• 1331[10:31:13] <somiaj> 10-15mins is usually more than enough time. After an hour, you can probably safely assume your mail did not make it to the bts correctly.
• 1332[10:31:31] <somiaj> (report bug requires you have SMTP correctly setup on your system, or give it a valid SMPT account)
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• 1336[10:32:42] <zomaar> 10 minutes now ;-)
• 1337[10:33:18] <zomaar> I removed the -- system part from the message because I was submitting from a different system, I hope that doesn't make a difference as to the result
• 1338[10:33:31] <somiaj> I often use bugreport -> but don't send the email, save it as a text, then send the email directly using my normal method.
• 1339[10:33:41] <zomaar> Right
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• 1341[10:34:30] <somiaj> Since it is a manpage issue and you have supplied a patch, I doubt it matters. In general that info is to help isolate/prorduce the bug.
• 1342[10:35:36] <somiaj> but I would suggest producing the bug report on the machine that has the bug, and then saving it a text file if you have to email it from a different machine.
• 1343[10:36:04] <zomaar> Right
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• 1345[10:36:33] <zomaar> I also copied the origin machine's version into the version field
• 1346[10:36:48] <zomaar> I don't know if that means it is filed against exactly that version
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• 1348[10:36:55] <Unit193> Though of course it is possible to have reportbug use, say, gmail to send the message.
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• 1352[10:37:42] <somiaj> Unit193: directly, I had to setup exim to send through gmail due to authentication?
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• 1358[10:38:14] <somiaj> oh wait, I also had to send over ssl because my ISP blocks port 25
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• 1360[10:38:35] <Unit193> somiaj: BTS_SMTP_HOST=smtps://smtp.gmail.com and BTS_SMTP_AUTH_USERNAME=unit193 in .devscripts.
• 1361[10:39:05] <TaZeR> my isp is so gay it blocks port 80 and 25 and every other port worth anything
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• 1363[10:39:28] <TaZeR> maybe we have the same one
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• 1365[10:40:16] <somiaj> TaZeR: it is common for isp's to block 25, it helps keep spammers from using the network, and most of them offer their own smtp server you could use (I just don't use my isp's mailserver)
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• 1370[10:41:11] <somiaj> often one really just needs to relay through their mailserver (instead of using it). Though it seems they don't tend to do this with the ssl mail port.
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• 1373[10:41:18] <somiaj> Unit193: thanks
• 1374[10:41:32] <Unit193> somiaj: That might actually be related to something else..
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• 1376[10:42:13] <zomaar> My system always receives mail just fine; and sends it
• 1377[10:42:27] <somiaj> yea depends a lot on the isp.
• 1378[10:42:46] <Unit193> somiaj: Yeah sorry, I mixed up the config. That one is for bts, reportbug is close, but slightly different.
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• 1408[11:04:02] <zomaar> The first one was not received and the second one I sent was received within one minute
• 1409[11:04:09] <zomaar> I am glad I didn't wait around for longer
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• 1411[11:04:43] <Unit193> (#890386)
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• 1414[11:06:02] <zomaar> Not sure why it was reported against the src package though
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• 1416[11:07:21] <Unit193> Whup, #890388 too.
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• 1431[11:16:24] <_k0ala_> Hi, new here. I have a question. For example, if I'm in GNOME, and if I search with a specific query, I get a list of programs whose names match my search query. My question is: Where is that list of installed programs stored?
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• 1434[11:19:04] <zomaar> And then 6 minutes later the bug report from an hour ago also makes it through
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• 1437[11:20:13] <zomaar> It doesn't seem possible to remove any bug reports
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• 1491[11:52:13] <dissidence> iptables v1.4.21: can't initialize iptables table `filter': Table does not exist (do you need to insmod?)
• 1492[11:52:25] <dissidence> iptables -L gives the following error ^
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• 1494[11:53:10] <dissidence> you gotta be root for that too??
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• 1496[11:53:53] <lram> Hello, is there an opportunity to use apt-transport-https on security.debian.org?
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• 1498[11:55:29] <petn-randall> lram: No, it wouldn't add much to it, either.
• 1499[11:55:35] <petn-randall> *security
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• 1502[11:58:24] <BCMM> petn-randall: because the packages are signed anyway, right?
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• 1509[12:03:36] <lram> petn-randall: It would. Firewalls (not under my control) are preventing communication to Debian repositories via http. Repositories which support https are working, security.debian.org not. I consider it as an increase in security if I could get updates from security.debian.org.
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• 1521[12:08:49] <dissidence> is there an easy command to set the time and date?
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• 1524[12:09:11] <lram> dissidence: date?
• 1525[12:09:37] <BCMM> dissidence: do you want to manually enter the time, or have it synced from the net?
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• 1527[12:10:16] <lram> dissidence: sudo ntpdate 3.de.pool.ntp.org
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• 1530[12:11:44] <dissidence> trying to set the correct time and date
• 1531[12:11:57] <petn-randall> lram: Then I'll assume they have a working proxy running.
• 1532[12:12:34] <dissidence> okay thanks that worked
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• 1534[12:12:58] <lram> petn-randall: Don't assume working infrastructure, which are not under your control :)
• 1535[12:14:58] <petn-randall> lram: All mirrors for Debian won't get https in the forseeable future because the DSA would have to distribute TLS certs, too. And then start trusting the mirror admins, which is something they don't want to do.
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• 1537[12:15:22] <petn-randall> lram: The concept of how apt works is that the mirror admins don't need to be trusted.
• 1538[12:15:33] <babilen> dpkg: secure apt
• 1539[12:15:33] <dpkg> [apt-secure] Starting with version 0.6, <APT> performs signature checking of the Release file for all archives. See replaced-url
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• 1545[12:17:30] <lram> petn-randall: I don't mean that we should drop end-to-end package signing in favor of transport encryption via TLS. I just want package updates via HTTPS to circumvent systems which are preventing me from doing package upates.
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• 1550[12:20:05] <BCMM> lram: i think the point is that, as long as they're accessed as something.debian.org they have to be using debian tls keys
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• 1552[12:20:21] <BCMM> certs, rather
• 1553[12:20:51] <BCMM> which would entail distributing the certs to so many different groups that they would no longer be meaningfully trustworthy
• 1554[12:21:44] <BCMM> petn-randall please correct me if i've misunderstood
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• 1558[12:22:24] <lram> That would be totally okay, since we have signed packages as a trust anchor. I just need TLS-traffic because such traffic doesn't get filtered often.
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• 1563[12:25:34] <BCMM> it would create certain expectations, though
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• 1565[12:25:56] <BCMM> for example, the expectation that nobody can see which packages you're installing
• 1566[12:26:06] <lram> Yes, probably.
• 1567[12:26:33] <BCMM> it would work for your use case, but it would imply trust in the mirrors in a way which is potentially damaging to other users
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• 1569[12:26:50] <repz> Hello ici, quelqu'un connaitrait une URL exposant un tux différent toutes les X secondes / minute s?
• 1570[12:28:03] <petn-randall> lram: "security.debian.org" is a subdomain, but there's a whole CDN behind it that is not under control of the DSA. So getting a HTTPS certificate and distributing it would be a security risk and a lot of work without any benefit.
• 1571[12:28:42] <BCMM> i can't tell if that's a somewhat confusing request or if my french is just rusty
• 1572[12:28:43] <petn-randall> lram: So the correct mode of operation is to ask your sysadmins to allowo you to use http.
• 1573[12:28:51] <lram> I see
• 1574[12:28:51] <petn-randall> !fr
• 1575[12:28:51] <dpkg> Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr. Francophone users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr.
• 1576[12:28:54] <petn-randall> repz: ^^^
• 1577[12:29:10] <lram> HTTP is allowed, but it is kinda blocking package updates.
• 1578[12:29:36] <repz> oh woops, sorry
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• 1580[12:29:44] <lram> Maybe I should just setup an HTTPS proxy for security.debian.org
• 1581[12:29:46] <BCMM> lram: is there not any public proxy you could use?
• 1582[12:30:00] <repz> I'll reformat my question then, does anyone know an URL displaying a different tux every X seconds / minutes ?
• 1583[12:30:08] <BCMM> i mean, tls traffic on 443 is tls traffic on 443, somebody has got to offer a service to let you proxy arbitrary stuff over "https", right?
• 1584[12:30:20] <BCMM> repz: like, a different image of tux the penguin?
• 1585[12:30:20] <lram> BCMM: Do you know how to find such a proxy?
• 1586[12:30:34] <repz> BCMM: exactly
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• 1588[12:31:06] <petn-randall> lram: Talk to your sysadmins.
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• 1590[12:31:46] <BCMM> lram: when you talk to your sysadmins be sure to bring up the security aspect
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• 1592[12:32:01] <BCMM> repz: i'm not aware of something like that but it would be *very* easy to implement
• 1593[12:32:30] <repz> *very* ? If you manualy manage a repo of tux images yes ..
• 1594[12:32:31] *** Joins: infernix (nix@replaced-ip)
• 1595[12:32:59] <repz> I need it for my mattermost webhooks :')
• 1596[12:33:04] *** Joins: PowaBanga_ (~PowaBanga@replaced-ip)
• 1597[12:33:31] <mint> hi i have poor sound quality in mint sylvia
• 1598[12:33:33] *** Joins: uniqdom (~mcastillo@replaced-ip)
• 1599[12:33:49] <BCMM> repz: replaced-url
• 1600[12:33:50] <mint> but when i live boot sound qulaity is fine
• 1601[12:34:02] <mint> what might be reason
• 1602[12:34:13] <babilen> Ask Mint people?
• 1603[12:34:14] <BCMM> i.e. that repo is already managed elsewhere for any given category of images
• 1604[12:34:14] <babilen> dpkg: mint
• 1605[12:34:15] <dpkg> Linux Mint is not Debian and is not supported in #debian. Please use their forums at replaced-url
• 1606[12:34:33] <mint> ok
• 1607[12:34:43] <babilen> ta
• 1608[12:34:47] <babilen> Good luck
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• 1610[12:36:13] <Bowl323> "debian has outdated packages"
• 1611[12:36:49] <petn-randall> !ask
• 1612[12:36:50] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
• 1613[12:37:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1585
• 1614[12:37:03] <petn-randall> Bowl323: Try framing a support request similar to the above. ^^^
• 1615[12:37:05] <BCMM> Bowl323: is that an error message you got from some software update application, or just a complaint?
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• 1617[12:37:39] <Bowl323> it's a statement
• 1618[12:37:55] <babilen> Which is neither factual nor on-topic
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• 1620[12:38:11] <babilen> This is a support channel, so .. ask if you have a problem/question you'd like help with
• 1621[12:39:50] <rant> idk if I'm chatting to an AI or a moron
• 1622[12:39:52] <rant> heh
• 1623[12:39:59] <rant> oops wrong channel.. sorry
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• 1625[12:40:11] <babilen> …
• 1626[12:40:14] <BCMM> Bowl323: i mean, if you don't want outdated packages, don't use debian stable
• 1627[12:40:24] <BCMM> Bowl323: it's there for people who specifically do want them
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• 1629[12:40:49] <Bowl323> debian's great for servers
• 1630[12:40:52] <babilen> Not too surprising, given that "stable" means "not changing"
• 1631[12:41:15] *** Joins: zomaar (~jonathan@replaced-ip)
• 1632[12:41:45] <babilen> Bowl323: That's also not true and, frankly, doesn't get us anywhere. If you have a specific issue you'd like to address then please ask a question or define your problem. If not, stay quiet or take it elsewhere
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• 1635[12:42:26] <babilen> Or rather: It's true, but the implied meaning of "[only]" isn't
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• 1637[12:42:33] <zomaar> systemd fun of the day: Lennart frequently changes something from "warning" to "debug", but his other tool, journalctl, actually has no option to turn off debug messages by default
• 1638[12:43:13] *** Quits: RebelCoder (~RebelCode@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 1639[12:43:25] <petn-randall> "frequently"?
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• 1642[12:43:58] <zomaar> That's a word in the english language
• 1643[12:44:15] *** Joins: snf_gh (~snf_gh@replaced-ip)
• 1644[12:44:32] <zomaar> :)
• 1645[12:44:37] <petn-randall> Last time I checked, systemd didn't change much in stable.
• 1646[12:44:37] <zomaar> Thought I'd help you there
• 1647[12:44:58] *** Joins: morphis (~morphis@replaced-ip)
• 1648[12:46:24] <zomaar> Then, to please you sir, I will do s/frequently/sometimes/ and hope the message becomes palpable for you that way
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• 1650[12:47:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1591
• 1651[12:47:11] <jelly> zomaar: unless there's an actionable item there someone can help you with, best keep rants (about systemd or other components) to yourself
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• 1654[12:47:46] <zomaar> Well I just wanted to keep it to a single message, I am not really interested myself in debates about constituent words either
• 1655[12:47:47] <jelly> we have #debian-offtopic for non-support, but systemd rants are not welcome there either. File bug reports.
• 1656[12:47:48] <zomaar> Sorry
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• 1667[12:48:53] <jelly> I have 2-3 things I could rant about with systemd in debian 8 and 9, but the only constructive thing to do is file bugs and help fix them
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• 1669[12:49:17] <zomaar> On the other hand, there is an actionable item in the advice I could give in working around it, which could help people, but alas
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• 1672[12:49:45] <Goldi22> replaced-url
• 1673[12:49:53] <Goldi22> can someone help with this
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• 1676[12:50:11] <jelly> zomaar: the right thing to do is file a bug report, and list workarounds in there
• 1677[12:50:49] <jelly> after search engines index it, users can be directed to such a documented workaround
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• 1679[12:51:16] <petn-randall> Goldi22: You'll have to ask in #ubuntu for that.
• 1680[12:51:17] <zomaar> Well my systemd paycheck didn't arrive last month, I am a bit short of funds at the moment
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• 1682[12:51:42] <Goldi22> but im on debian actually
• 1683[12:52:06] <babilen> zomaar: So what are you trying to achieve here/now ?
• 1684[12:52:25] <zomaar> Well creating the amount of noise you are creating is not part of it
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• 1686[12:52:35] <zomaar> Sorry, I'll leave
• 1687[12:52:39] <babilen> k
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• 1708[12:58:07] <BluesKaj> 'Morning
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• 1738[13:10:09] *** Joins: sanbot (~sanbot@replaced-ip)
• 1739[13:10:16] <sanbot> i did pulseaudio -k ; and pulseaudio --start ;but now no sound why ?
• 1740[13:10:19] <dissidence> is there an easy way to copy paste between xterm mouse select and say a web browser
• 1741[13:10:32] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1742[13:11:05] <bookworm> middle mouse click
• 1743[13:11:44] *** Joins: esro (~esro@replaced-ip)
• 1744[13:12:02] <dissidence> thats easy enough
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• 1750[13:13:05] *** Joins: nlsthzn (~nailed@replaced-ip)
• 1751[13:13:40] <BCMM> looks like kwin isn't going to support that on wayland. i don't know how i'll cope tbh.
• 1752[13:14:01] <slax0r> wayland?
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• 1755[13:14:30] *** Parts: nlsthzn (~nailed@replaced-ip) ("Leaving")
• 1756[13:14:32] <BCMM> slax0r: the replacement for X11 basically
• 1757[13:14:36] *** Quits: lucad111 (~lucad111@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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• 1760[13:14:50] <slax0r> oh
• 1761[13:15:01] *** Joins: nlsthzn (~nailed@replaced-ip)
• 1762[13:15:10] <slax0r> my geek mind immediatelly went to wayland-yutani
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• 1771[13:17:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1588
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• 1781[13:24:59] <zomaar> I've just come to tell you that I will stop contributing to open source
• 1782[13:25:15] *** Quits: Ericounet (~Ericounet@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1783[13:25:17] <zomaar> I have spent the last hour and a half filing a bug report on debian and on LXC upstream
• 1784[13:25:28] <zomaar> And then when I say something about it, I get this kind of treatment.
• 1785[13:25:30] <zomaar> I've had it
• 1786[13:25:36] *** Quits: sanroot (~sanbot@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 1787[13:25:38] <petn-randall> !next
• 1788[13:25:38] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
• 1789[13:25:55] <zomaar> Yes, and all you can do is repeat your anti-social behaviours
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• 1794[13:27:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1595
• 1795[13:27:09] <zomaar> You treat your employees like shit
• 1796[13:27:17] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o petn-randall
• 1797[13:27:17] *** petn-randall sets mode: +q *!*@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.90.171.110
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• 1800[13:28:17] <petn-randall> zomaar: You've only been ranting here, and we've told you to take it somewhere else, as this is a support channel. Feel free to contribute again in here if you have a request or something productive to say.
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• 1805[13:28:42] <petn-randall> zomaar: Also, last time I checked, Debian isn't an employer.
• 1806[13:29:11] *** Joins: c0ncealed (c0ncealed@replaced-ip)
• 1807[13:29:11] <jelly> jguillen, chodjo, madelmoe: why is there three of you?
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• 1815[13:30:53] <JustASlacker> well, it might not be an employer
• 1816[13:30:56] *** Quits: bbdgl (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: bbdgl)
• 1817[13:31:01] <JustASlacker> it certainly creates paid work for me
• 1818[13:31:14] *** Joins: bbdgl (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 1819[13:31:20] * JustASlacker needs a raise
• 1820[13:31:33] *** Joins: zomaar (b2e7806a@replaced-ip)
• 1821[13:31:35] <zomaar> Like I said, Debian will get no more contributions from me. Goodbye.
• 1822[13:31:41] <BanHammor> debian probably employs -someone-, right?
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• 1827[13:37:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1601
• 1828[13:37:47] <petn-randall> BanHammor: 100% volunteers, AFAICS.
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• 1832[13:39:04] <petn-randall> BanHammor: There was even a big debate as a DPL tried to get some key positions to be paid. Must be 10 years ago or more. "dunc-tank" if you want to google it.
• 1833[13:39:21] *** Quits: LioneLL (~Pidgin@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving.)
• 1834[13:40:18] <rwx777> hey i want to use debian on desktop but cant decide between testing and unstable. Have 1 year linux experience and want to learn much about the os.
• 1835[13:40:38] <petn-randall> rwx777: I'd use stable, and then add backports if you need newer software.
• 1836[13:41:11] <petn-randall> rwx777: testing/sid is not the first choice for newcomers, since it breaks regularly due to library transitions.
• 1837[13:42:08] <rwx777> yeah but when it breaks i have to learn to fix it which is important for me.
• 1838[13:43:11] <jelly> BanHammor: there are however companies employing people who spend their time to work on debian
• 1839[13:43:23] *** Quits: GrimKriegor (~GrimKrieg@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 1840[13:43:46] <BanHammor> petn-randall, but i guess sprint volunteers are paid...somewhat, if not actually employed.
• 1841[13:44:15] <BanHammor> rwx777, it doesn't seem like library breakages are a common kind of bug outside bleeding edge distributions
• 1842[13:46:04] <rwx777> ok thanks
• 1843[13:47:00] <BanHammor> if you -really- want to learn how Linux configuration works and to do it all yourself, i think Arch's pretty good on that front?
• 1844[13:47:26] <BanHammor> in that they don't even give you a readymade ISO, you're supposed to build one yourself or chroot-install it
• 1845[13:47:28] <slax0r> never did arch, but I'm fairly certain Slackware is far better then
• 1846[13:47:45] <BanHammor> oh slackware is still alve?
• 1847[13:47:49] <slax0r> afaik yes
• 1848[13:48:11] <slax0r> although it will be slowly 2 years since last release :(
• 1849[13:48:27] *** Quits: rwx777 (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1850[13:49:02] <BanHammor> also, not having a decent package manager feels like it's giving the user a ton of meaningless work to do
• 1851[13:49:31] <slax0r> I don't feel like discussing slackware here, but you did ask to learn how to do everything yourself ;)
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• 1859[13:53:36] <BanHammor> regadless, we all benefit from archwiki somewhat :)
• 1860[13:53:50] <BanHammor> (i'm done, anyone got actual technical problems? :D)
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• 1863[13:54:01] <VLetrmx> Hi
• 1864[13:54:05] <VLetrmx> debootstrap has stopped working
• 1865[13:54:06] <VLetrmx> halp
• 1866[13:54:31] <BanHammor> !doesn't work
• 1867[13:54:31] <dpkg> "Doesn't work" is a vague statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error message?". Ask me about <smart questions>, <sicco> and <errors>.
• 1868[13:54:36] *** Joins: Uberius (~Uberius@replaced-ip)
• 1869[13:54:42] <VLetrmx> root@occident:~# debootstrap stretch hi
• 1870[13:54:43] <VLetrmx> I: Retrieving InRelease
• 1871[13:54:43] <VLetrmx> I: Retrieving Release
• 1872[13:54:43] <VLetrmx> E: Failed getting release file replaced-url
• 1873[13:54:49] *** Joins: bites (~bites@replaced-ip)
• 1874[13:54:56] <VLetrmx> ping replaced-url
• 1875[13:54:56] <VLetrmx> ping: replaced-url
• 1876[13:54:57] *** Quits: argusbr (~online@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 1877[13:55:22] <BanHammor> please don't paste your entire log file into IRC, let paste.debian.net handle it
• 1878[13:55:27] <VLetrmx> jesus
• 1879[13:55:37] <VLetrmx> do you have an answer to my question or not?
• 1880[13:55:55] <rant> VLetrmx: if you cannot ping deb.debian.org your problem has nothing at all to do with debootstrap, its a network issue
• 1881[13:56:09] <BanHammor> does wget deb.debian.org work?
• 1882[13:56:16] <BanHammor> on the host machine, that is
• 1883[13:56:27] <VLetrmx> No it doesn't resolve, does it for you?
• 1884[13:56:35] <BanHammor> yes
• 1885[13:56:37] <rant> yes it resolves for me
• 1886[13:56:39] <VLetrmx> Hrm
• 1887[13:56:51] <VLetrmx> is it possible I got my ip banned by using debootstrap in my CI?
• 1888[13:57:02] <bites> try ping deb.debian.org instead. http is a different protocol.
• 1889[13:57:18] <BanHammor> i mean, it sounds like a DNS issue to me
• 1890[13:57:21] <VLetrmx> hrm
• 1891[13:57:22] <VLetrmx> yeah
• 1892[13:57:23] <VLetrmx> ping: deb.debian.org: No address associated with hostname
• 1893[13:57:31] <VLetrmx> let me change name server
• 1894[13:57:32] *** Joins: n4dir (~user@replaced-ip)
• 1895[13:57:44] <BanHammor> that probably isn't affected by protocol, try using Google DNS
• 1896[13:58:39] *** Quits: turfal (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1897[13:58:53] *** Quits: bvdk (~bvdkfreen@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1898[13:58:59] *** Joins: strk (~strk@replaced-ip)
• 1899[13:59:19] <strk> why is it that installing lilypond brings in xterm (among lots of other x related things?)
• 1900[13:59:54] <petn-randall> VLetrmx: What are the contents of your /etc/resolv.conf?
• 1901[14:00:36] <VLetrmx> weird, I can't ping anything when I do echo 8.8.8.8 > /etc/resolv.conf :<
• 1902[14:00:45] <rant> strk: perhaps because its an X app? idk since its not a real package
• 1903[14:01:09] *** Joins: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip)
• 1904[14:01:09] <strk> I never used it as an x app
• 1905[14:01:10] <gpunk> "nameserver 8.8.8.8"
• 1906[14:01:14] <strk> it's a commandline app
• 1907[14:01:15] <VLetrmx> oh yeah I meant that
• 1908[14:01:17] <VLetrmx> sorry
• 1909[14:01:25] <strk> and even if it was x app, why would it depend on xterm ? no point
• 1910[14:03:09] <rant> strk: you'll need to be more specific there is no package lilypond in stable.. what dist and package are you talking about?
• 1911[14:03:09] <gpunk> plz ping that ip of 64 bytes from senfter.debian.org (5.153.231.4): icmp_seq=3 ttl=51 time=117 ms
• 1912[14:03:16] <BanHammor> does installing with --no-install-recommends still ask for xterm?
• 1913[14:03:18] *** Quits: kbeflo (~kbeflo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1914[14:03:44] <gpunk> VLetrmx:
• 1915[14:03:53] <BanHammor> because it may be that it installs X, which recommends something liiike xorg-utils, which recommends xterm
• 1916[14:04:15] <VLetrmx> gpunk, ok
• 1917[14:04:16] <rant> ,depends lilypond jessie
• 1918[14:04:17] <judd> Package lilypond in jessie/amd64 -- depends: guile-1.8-libs, libc6 (>= 2.14), libfontconfig1 (>= 2.11), libfreetype6 (>= 2.2.1), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.12.0), libgmp10, libltdl7 (>= 2.4.2), libpango-1.0-0 (>= 1.18.0), libpangoft2-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), libstdc++6 (>= 4.9), python, guile-1.8, lilypond-data (= 2.18.2-4), ghostscript.
• 1919[14:04:24] <VLetrmx> PING 5.153.231.4 (5.153.231.4) 56(84) bytes of data.
• 1920[14:04:25] <VLetrmx> 64 bytes from 5.153.231.4: icmp_seq=1 ttl=52 time=9.96 ms
• 1921[14:04:34] <gpunk> hmm
• 1922[14:05:13] <gpunk> VLetrmx: others PCs on networks with same problem ?
• 1923[14:05:18] <VLetrmx> let me check
• 1924[14:05:40] *** Quits: AMartin (~AMartin@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bye)
• 1925[14:05:58] *** Quits: Neomex (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1926[14:06:10] *** Joins: Madda (~Madda@replaced-ip)
• 1927[14:06:29] <VLetrmx> down on other pcs :(
• 1928[14:06:32] *** Quits: Thedarkb (~beno@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 1929[14:06:59] <gpunk> i'd check the router/modem
• 1930[14:07:01] <VLetrmx> have I been doing too much debootstrap?
• 1931[14:07:08] <VLetrmx> hrm
• 1932[14:07:11] *** Joins: pax (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 1933[14:07:17] <gpunk> can you ping other fqdn ?
• 1934[14:07:22] <VLetrmx> like what?
• 1935[14:07:24] <gpunk> like free.FR ?
• 1936[14:07:31] *** Joins: kbeflo (~kbeflo@replaced-ip)
• 1937[14:08:13] <VLetrmx> yes I can ping that
• 1938[14:09:04] <gpunk> so you might wait and ping debian in few minutes/hours you never know
• 1939[14:09:30] <VLetrmx> damn, can't run my CI now, maybe I should have my own debian mirror
• 1940[14:09:54] <gpunk> what is CI ?
• 1941[14:10:01] <VLetrmx> continuous integration
• 1942[14:10:32] <gpunk> ping fr.debian.org
• 1943[14:10:49] <VLetrmx> ping fr.debian.org
• 1944[14:10:49] <VLetrmx> ping: fr.debian.org: No address associated with hostname
• 1945[14:10:54] <gpunk> arf
• 1946[14:10:59] <VLetrmx> yes
• 1947[14:11:27] <gpunk> your modem/router gets dynamic IP ?
• 1948[14:11:44] <petn-randall> I'm guessing /etc/resolv.conf gets overwritten by dhclient.
• 1949[14:11:49] <VLetrmx> no, company network
• 1950[14:12:09] *** Joins: czesmir_ (~stefan@replaced-ip)
• 1951[14:12:24] <petn-randall> VLetrmx: Ask your sysadmin.
• 1952[14:13:24] <alkisg> You can also set a static entry to your /etc/hosts if you want to override your dns provider
• 1953[14:13:38] <BanHammor> there's no such thing as "debootstrapping too much", since it's indistinguishable from any other upgrade/netinstall
• 1954[14:13:43] <gpunk> yes or install a dns server
• 1955[14:14:29] <rant> BanHammor: there are however such things as idiotic sysadmins that may have blocked something :P
• 1956[14:14:39] <rant> or just screwed up the dns
• 1957[14:14:40] <alkisg> fr.debian.org doesn't work for me either, while fr.debian.net does
• 1958[14:14:49] <VLetrmx> yeah fr.debian.net works
• 1959[14:15:11] *** Quits: czesmir (~stefan@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 1960[14:15:20] <VLetrmx> let's try another mirror
• 1961[14:15:40] <rant> you can use debootstrap with any mirror.. try mirrors.kernel.org/debian or such
• 1962[14:16:04] *** Quits: pax (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: pax)
• 1963[14:16:14] <VLetrmx> damn
• 1964[14:16:17] *** Quits: zamuro (~Samantha@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1965[14:16:28] *** Quits: A|TARIS (~altaris@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 1966[14:17:23] <VLetrmx> yeah same error with multiple mirrors, wtf
• 1967[14:17:34] *** Joins: esro (~esro@replaced-ip)
• 1968[14:17:45] <VLetrmx> hrm
• 1969[14:17:55] <BanHammor> are those mirrors ping-able and wget-able?
• 1970[14:17:58] <VLetrmx> oh I'm still using 8.8..8 nameserver
• 1971[14:18:10] <VLetrmx> which seems totally broken
• 1972[14:18:12] <VLetrmx> let's change it back
• 1973[14:18:34] <VLetrmx> ping mirror.kernel.org
• 1974[14:18:34] <VLetrmx> ping: mirror.kernel.org: No address associated with hostname
• 1975[14:18:35] <VLetrmx> wtf
• 1976[14:18:40] *** Quits: rozie (~rozie@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 1977[14:18:47] <rant> VLetrmx: mirrors not mirror
• 1978[14:18:52] <VLetrmx> oh
• 1979[14:19:04] <VLetrmx> nice
• 1980[14:19:05] <VLetrmx> works
• 1981[14:19:05] <VLetrmx> thanks
• 1982[14:19:15] <gpunk> :)
• 1983[14:19:24] *** Joins: oo_miguel (~miguel@replaced-ip)
• 1984[14:19:39] *** Quits: tsuggs (~tsuggs@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 1985[14:19:50] <oo_miguel> I am trying to install debian on a ipv6 only system.. but it hangs at "confgiguring apt"
• 1986[14:19:52] *** Joins: luna (~luna@replaced-ip)
• 1987[14:19:54] <luna> Updating the OMV Debian server at work now :)
• 1988[14:20:02] <oo_miguel> I can ping the selected mirror without problems from the shell
• 1989[14:20:09] <oo_miguel> ftp2.de.debian.org
• 1990[14:20:12] <VLetrmx> Good to know there's no such thing as too much debootstrap
• 1991[14:21:03] <VLetrmx> maybe I should run wtih --keep-debootstrap-dir anyway
• 1992[14:21:15] <BanHammor> i'd honestly recommend multistrap if you're making images natively, since it's more configurable.
• 1993[14:21:31] <VLetrmx> oh
• 1994[14:22:00] <rant> yeah and an apt caching proxy if you're fetching a lot of the same stuff
• 1995[14:22:17] <VLetrmx> hrm, or just my own mirror maybe?
• 1996[14:22:44] *** Quits: czesmir_ (~stefan@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 1997[14:23:01] <rant> yeah but the apt caching proxy saves you the time of mirroring locally and having to keep it updated.. it automatically gets updated if there is a newer package available and only caches what you actually request rather than the whole mirror
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• 1999[14:23:14] * VLetrmx nods
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• 2002[14:25:29] <solosoft> j #freebsd
• 2003[14:25:34] <iodev> LOL!
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• 2017[14:35:28] <blanketyblank> hi all
• 2018[14:36:06] <blanketyblank> anyone here manage to get gpu passthrough working on qemu + debian guest?
• 2019[14:36:55] <towo^work> it does not depand on the guest
• 2020[14:37:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1608
• 2021[14:37:02] <towo^work> +depend
• 2022[14:37:04] <blanketyblank> i can see the initial pre-grub loading screen on the passthrough video card (amd) but then the video display stops being out put even though the vm eventually start up
• 2023[14:37:07] <blanketyblank> hi towo^work
• 2024[14:37:30] *** Quits: stfel (~stfel@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2025[14:37:53] <towo^work> if you passed an amd card, you need non-free firmware installed on debian guest
• 2026[14:37:53] <t3st3r> do you have IOMMU to begin with?
• 2027[14:38:01] <blanketyblank> right. i have that much figured out so far. mobo supports vtd and all of that and the ati cards are fully supported. i can get gpu passthrough on a windows guest no problem at all, just not on debian.
• 2028[14:38:07] *** Quits: Thedarkb (~beno@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 2029[14:38:32] <t3st3r> and then passthrough isn't exactly easy and takes plenty of actions
• 2030[14:38:35] <towo^work> and it would be of interest, which amd card that is
• 2031[14:39:03] <t3st3r> passing through gpus is anything but easy :)
• 2032[14:39:18] <blanketyblank> t3st3r: indeed!
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• 2035[14:40:00] <t3st3r> and as far as I know it only recently started working...
• 2036[14:40:15] <t3st3r> as for firmwares, amd gpus need firmwares anyway.
• 2037[14:40:25] <blanketyblank> well, i had esxi and xen working on this box just fine. xen did full gpu passthrough for windows and debian guest but the video was tearing on debian (windows guest was fine). i'm no learning qemu which is closer to my comfort zone as the host is now plain debian.
• 2038[14:40:42] <t3st3r> they are quite useless without firmwares, these handle power management and so on...
• 2039[14:40:51] <blanketyblank> t3st3r: aha, so finding an ovmf file that supports the amd card might be a good area to research?
• 2040[14:41:26] <blanketyblank> the reason that i am asking here is that i am ONLY googling users that managed to get windows guest gpu passthrough working on qemu
• 2041[14:41:37] <t3st3r> hmm, I've never dealt with "ovmf files" just plain qemu VMs and passing pci-e device
• 2042[14:41:40] <blanketyblank> not a single person seems to have managed to get gpu passthrough with a debian guest
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• 2045[14:42:11] <blanketyblank> t3st3r: have you managed to get gpu passthrough with a debian guest? just curious if you had any success with that.
• 2046[14:42:19] <blanketyblank> and qemu specifically
• 2047[14:42:20] <t3st3r> eventually I've got pci detached on host and attached on vm but that was rather complicated and then there was some bug if I remember
• 2048[14:42:35] <t3st3r> but it probably fixed these days, I've been lazy to try :)
• 2049[14:42:44] <blanketyblank> yeah i had to do that on xen first manually but in latest versions it seemed to be automatic
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• 2052[14:43:31] <t3st3r> there was some bug on AMD driver side for example, it probably not even depended if its xen or something
• 2053[14:43:58] <blanketyblank> qemu is so nice, its just an install, virtual machine manager lets you "just" install a windows vm with a gpu passthrough if your hardware is "perfectly" selected and you are done.
• 2054[14:44:37] <t3st3r> well, qemu works for me most of time :)
• 2055[14:44:44] <blanketyblank> towo^work: radeon r9 280x
• 2056[14:45:09] <t3st3r> but I use just qxl or even spice to get screen from VM
• 2057[14:45:25] <t3st3r> qxl is quite fast, at least youtube looks okay
• 2058[14:46:13] <blanketyblank> yeah, i mean, right now i'm forced to do that as well. but i have those two gpus and would be nice to have a linux + windows guests use their respective gpu passthrough cards.
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• 2060[14:47:00] <t3st3r> and new AMD gpus are only usable in debian with some extra adventures btw
• 2061[14:47:14] <blanketyblank> t3st3r: what do you mean?
• 2062[14:47:17] <t3st3r> due to old kernels/mesa and AMD moving to AMDGPU kernel side overall
• 2063[14:47:36] <blanketyblank> oh you mean moving to open source drivers?
• 2064[14:47:39] *** Quits: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 2065[14:47:46] <t3st3r> yes.
• 2066[14:48:07] <t3st3r> I have no idea how proprietary drivers are working or what it takes to get passthrough
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• 2070[14:48:13] <blanketyblank> yeah i ran into that as well. the r9's are supported by the open source drivers apparently just no idea how well
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• 2073[14:48:40] <t3st3r> fortunately these days there is virtually no proprietary kernel side left. AMD killed it in favor of opensource AMDGPU
• 2074[14:49:13] <blanketyblank> t3st3r: i don't know what xen actually did on the host. for debian and windows, i install the amd proprietary drives and gpu passthrough worked. on windows it worked fine on debian there was tearing.
• 2075[14:49:14] <t3st3r> so kernel-side amdgpu module is meant to handle both opensource MESA and proprietary catalyst-like usermode part.
• 2076[14:49:36] <blanketyblank> right
• 2077[14:50:12] *** Quits: DammitJim (~DammitJim@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2078[14:50:23] <blanketyblank> it's pretty amazing if you think about it. never thought open source drives for any majour video card vendor would be a thing
• 2079[14:50:46] <t3st3r> as for tearing - well, in ideal world there should be no big difference if gpu is in vm or not, that's whole point of passthrough.
• 2080[14:51:35] <t3st3r> amd ditched proprietary kernel and from my experience, that's for good.
• 2081[14:51:49] <t3st3r> * proprietary kernel module.
• 2082[14:52:35] <blanketyblank> ohhh ... hmmm ... i wonder if systemd is hosing the boot process here
• 2083[14:52:37] <t3st3r> so AMD maybe not the worst GPUs ever if one can live with firmware blobs.
• 2084[14:53:14] <t3st3r> Nvidia is utterly proprietary, intel is slow and new intels also need FW. What else? :)
• 2085[14:53:16] <blanketyblank> the debian guest is up but the gpu passthrough only renders the very first bit of the boot process and stays there, as if something got switched
• 2086[14:53:44] *** Joins: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip)
• 2087[14:54:15] <t3st3r> maybe that was some GPU driver bug similar to what I've faced. Recently AMD fixed something related to it.
• 2088[14:54:53] <t3st3r> but I've mostly settled down with qxl on my vms and haven't fully followed the end of story :)
• 2089[14:55:10] <blanketyblank> yeah, the point of this rig is to test out amd + a bunch of other things. i'm pretty sure i will just move fully over to amd for everything soon.
• 2090[14:55:23] <blanketyblank> t3st3r: that is possible as well.
• 2091[14:55:55] *** Quits: DieMoesch (~thomas@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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• 2094[14:57:16] <t3st3r> and your case looks like if things got stuck when GPU driver kicked in and attempted to switch GPU to native mode
• 2095[14:57:49] *** Joins: maxzor (~maxzor@replaced-ip)
• 2096[14:57:58] <blanketyblank> aha, right, okay i have new set of googlable terms now. let me see.
• 2097[14:57:59] *** Quits: Xano (~Xano@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 2098[14:58:06] <t3st3r> did you had firmwares, etc?
• 2099[14:58:11] *** Quits: Riyria (~Riyria@replaced-ip) (Quit: His home wifi router cost more than his car... He is... the most interesting network tech in the world...)
• 2100[14:58:39] <blanketyblank> t3st3r: you mean add firmware? on what, the host or guest?
• 2101[14:59:03] <t3st3r> driver attempts to init HW and upload firmwares, if that works GPU stops being VGA and goes into what it really is.
• 2102[14:59:17] <blanketyblank> aha on guest.
• 2103[14:59:26] <blanketyblank> no i did not install firmware on guest
• 2104[14:59:38] <t3st3r> I guess on guest in case of passthrough. Driver is barely aware where it happens. It "inits GPU".
• 2105[14:59:42] *** Joins: ychaouche (~ychaouche@replaced-ip)
• 2106[14:59:51] <blanketyblank> hmmm let me see
• 2107[15:00:05] <t3st3r> its up to VM and IOMMU to redirect what follows properly :)
• 2108[15:00:13] <ychaouche> hello #debian
• 2109[15:00:16] *** Joins: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip)
• 2110[15:00:23] <t3st3r> when that fails, unhealthy things happen :P
• 2111[15:00:37] *** Joins: Syndicate2090 (~Syndicate@replaced-ip)
• 2112[15:00:46] <blanketyblank> right right. okay that is helping me visualize things better. thank you.
• 2113[15:01:57] <t3st3r> oh btw maybe you had tearing in debian for very simple reason...
• 2114[15:02:18] *** Quits: P1ersson (~P1ersson@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2115[15:02:21] <t3st3r> If you had no FW and so on it could be GPU never switched to native mode and performed like VGA?
• 2116[15:02:52] <t3st3r> sure thing VGA/VESA is slow like hell, and would be handled by something like VESA driver...
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• 2120[15:03:17] <t3st3r> but it kinda wild guess
• 2121[15:03:26] *** Quits: neechan (~nee-chan@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
• 2122[15:03:45] <blanketyblank> aha!
• 2123[15:03:48] <blanketyblank> you know what?
• 2124[15:03:53] <blanketyblank> that makes the most sense.
• 2125[15:04:27] *** Quits: abba (~abba@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 2126[15:04:29] <blanketyblank> because the windows vm had the same teaering pattern until i install the proprietary ati drivers
• 2127[15:04:40] <blanketyblank> that is a very good instight
• 2128[15:04:50] <blanketyblank> very impressive :)
• 2129[15:04:58] <t3st3r> GPU boots in limited compatibility mode where it can't do proper power management and looks like VGA
• 2130[15:05:38] <t3st3r> when driver takes over, it uploads firmwares, inits power management, sets up HW and exposes that to Linux
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• 2132[15:06:16] *** natten is now known as jnatten
• 2133[15:06:50] <blanketyblank> that is interesting
• 2134[15:07:06] *** Joins: uNmowed9 (~Mayu@replaced-ip)
• 2135[15:07:07] <t3st3r> this "take over" moment is most critical point and if something can go wrong it goes wrong here most of time :)
• 2136[15:07:10] <blanketyblank> does the open source amd driver upload firmware as well?
• 2137[15:07:20] <t3st3r> yes
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• 2139[15:07:34] <blanketyblank> t3st3r: you totally opened my mind on this. amazing. thank you kindly.
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• 2142[15:07:45] <t3st3r> Both Radeon and AMDGPU. Its required to deal with GPUs in native mode.
• 2143[15:08:14] <t3st3r> its a bit unfortunate but that's how their hardware works :\
• 2144[15:08:24] *** Joins: killian99 (~killian99@replaced-ip)
• 2145[15:08:51] <blanketyblank> well, open sourcing the full amd driver will take years
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• 2148[15:09:20] <blanketyblank> there is a lot of encumbered technology they depend on. it is way better than nvidia
• 2149[15:09:29] *** Joins: well_laid_lawn (~Jean-luc@replaced-ip)
• 2150[15:09:32] <blanketyblank> i first started testing gpu passthrough on nvidia cards, known models
• 2151[15:09:43] *** Quits: Uberius (~Uberius@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2152[15:09:47] <BCMM> the driver is open source already, you can run radeon graphics with only open-source software running on the cpu. the firmware is just the component that runs on the GPU itself.
• 2153[15:09:51] <t3st3r> say frequency scaling is done by small CPU and it needs firmware to be fully operational. Not like if one can cheat that.
• 2154[15:09:55] <blanketyblank> and holy crap, nvidia drivers check to see if they are running in a virtualized environment and turn them selves off
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• 2157[15:10:19] <blanketyblank> then i read that amd open source drivers are mostly straight forward and so far i have not really been dissapointed
• 2158[15:10:26] <blanketyblank> t3st3r: right
• 2159[15:10:35] *** Joins: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 2160[15:10:39] <t3st3r> BCMM> so getting main cpu free of untrusted code is #1, sure. Though secondary cpus can do nasty things as well.
• 2161[15:10:40] <blanketyblank> BCMM: as i'm learning. *nod*
• 2162[15:10:49] <t3st3r> but world is imperfect and its less of issue
• 2163[15:11:05] <BCMM> t3st3r: yes, but i don't think GPU firmware is significantly more worrying than all the other firmware on the system
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• 2167[15:11:39] <t3st3r> BCMM> well... some firmwares are open. But unfortunately only few of them.
• 2168[15:11:45] *** Joins: maxzor_ (~maxzor@replaced-ip)
• 2169[15:11:49] <BCMM> it gets disproportionate attention because it is loaded at run-time, so people perceive it as the open-source kernel interacting with propriatary firmware
• 2170[15:12:00] <BCMM> but that's exactly what happens every time you write to a hard disk, for example
• 2171[15:12:25] <BCMM> the open-source kernel depending on closed firmware for basic hw functionality, that is
• 2172[15:12:40] <t3st3r> well, ME firmware got plenty of attention, so I know several ppl with trisquell & laptops using coreboot/libreboot.
• 2173[15:12:55] <BCMM> (firmware running on a device which necessarily requires DMA access, at that)
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• 2175[15:13:31] <BCMM> yeah, IME provides a massive vulnerability compared to "conventional" proprietary firmware
• 2176[15:13:37] <t3st3r> HDD firmware could be nasty btw. But fortunately Linux is so versatile and changes so fast most backdoors would fail stupid way
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• 2181[15:14:16] <t3st3r> but still there was HDD FW patch to return "different" sector, and that known to play prank on windows users.
• 2182[15:14:45] <t3st3r> so one reinstall system and so on, and malware resurrects anyway
• 2183[15:14:51] *** Joins: Thedarkb (~beno@replaced-ip)
• 2184[15:14:54] <BCMM> basically, i would like to have a real open hardware computer, but it's separate issue from open-source software
• 2185[15:15:09] *** Joins: UnixMonky (~UnixMonky@replaced-ip)
• 2186[15:15:14] <t3st3r> same here :D
• 2187[15:15:21] *** Joins: turfal (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 2188[15:15:40] <t3st3r> managed to get smaller ARM board to boot without blobs at all I believe. Well, bootROM excluded.
• 2189[15:15:43] <BCMM> and i see a lot of criticism of open-source drivers for not including open firmware, which sets back support for open-source software
• 2190[15:15:49] *** Joins: zarzar (~zarzar@replaced-ip)
• 2191[15:15:55] <BCMM> oh how i wish the raspberry Pi was more open
• 2192[15:16:09] <t3st3r> and ofc it runs Debian :D
• 2193[15:16:39] *** Joins: P1ersson (~P1ersson@replaced-ip)
• 2194[15:16:42] <BCMM> GPU access is basically less open than a desktop pc
• 2195[15:16:43] <t3st3r> I've used Orange Pi. Once boot ROM pikes off, its my u-boot, then my kernel, then debian :)
• 2196[15:16:57] <BCMM> how is the orange pi for gpu drivers?
• 2197[15:17:33] <t3st3r> and boot rom is small, dumb and relatively easy to reverse and unchangeable, so can't be updated. Nor it runs side by side.
• 2198[15:17:38] *** jet is now known as SilentJet
• 2199[15:17:41] * jelly points BCMM and t3st3r towards #debian-offtopic
• 2200[15:17:59] <BCMM> whoops, I thought i was in there. sorry!
• 2201[15:18:12] <t3st3r> <BCMM> how is the orange pi for gpu drivers? <- poorly, its mali. Though there is WIP driver for these.
• 2202[15:18:24] <t3st3r> but I mostly use it for networking tasks and so on
• 2203[15:19:02] <t3st3r> jelly> point taken
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• 2205[15:19:25] <BCMM> hmm. what's it got over the banana pi?
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• 2207[15:20:00] <BCMM> like, if i wanted something for a networkign application that doesn't care about the gpu, might as well go gigabit
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• 2244[15:38:19] <blanketyblank> t3st3r: thanks for the help. now i know what i need to google further.
• 2245[15:38:23] <blanketyblank> thanks to everyone else also
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• 2250[15:41:26] <strk> rant: Debian GNU/Linux 8.8 (jessie) -- apt-cache policy: 500 replaced-url
• 2251[15:42:17] <t3st3r> blanketyblank> try to google about passthrough with qemu, it MAYBE works at this point. But I'm not sure.
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• 2253[15:42:33] <rant> strk: I saw nothing in those dependencies that'd pull in anything x related as you said
• 2254[15:43:02] <t3st3r> there was also fancy channel where AMD devs dwell, so if you'll come with latest kernel and mesa they could probably help. But they are unlikely to deal with old SW.
• 2255[15:43:14] <strk> Depends: guile-1.8-libs, libc6 (>= 2.14), libfontconfig1 (>= 2.11), libfreetype6 (>= 2.2.1), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.12.0), libgmp10, libltdl7 (>= 2.4.2), libpango-1.0-0 (>= 1.18.0), libpangoft2-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), libstdc++6 (>= 4.9), python, guile-1.8, lilypond-data (= 2.18.2-4), ghostscript
• 2256[15:43:32] <strk> rant: is there any way to have full deps tracing, to figure out ?
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• 2258[15:43:44] <blanketyblank> t3st3r: oh interesting. did not know about that. sweet.
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• 2260[15:44:34] <strk> all I know is that `apt-get install lilypond` ends up with "The following NEW packages will be installed: ... x11-xserver-utils xbitmaps xdg-utils xterm ... (Need to get 212 MB of archives.)
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• 2264[15:45:42] <t3st3r> forgot channel, if you do not mind waiting a bit...
• 2265[15:47:01] <n4dir> strk: i am not sure, apt-rdepends might be a way to trace deps
• 2266[15:47:04] <blanketyblank> not at all, any help is appreciated.
• 2267[15:48:37] <t3st3r> seems it was #radeon unless I've got it wrong in old irc logs
• 2268[15:49:44] <blanketyblank> aha! added to notes.
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• 2270[15:50:14] <strk> n4dir: apt-rdepends lilypond | grep xterm # no hits
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• 2274[15:50:43] <strk> sudo apt-get install lilypond | grep xterm # x11-utils x11-xserver-utils xbitmaps xdg-utils xterm
• 2275[15:51:56] <Zathras> brctl show does not show any bridged interfaces much to my surprise although i defined: bridge_ports regex wlp4s* ensp0s*
• 2276[15:52:06] <Zathras> see replaced-url
• 2277[15:52:16] <Zathras> what is wrong in that /etc/network/interfaces config please?
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• 2279[15:53:03] <jelly> Zathras: "wlp4s*" regex would only match wlp4, wlp4s, wlp4ss, wlp4sss, wlp4ssss etc
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• 2284[15:54:11] <Zathras> jelly, thanks. I assume .* should do the trick?
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• 2288[15:54:44] <jelly> I guess so, but I haven't really used or RTFMd that syntax
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• 2292[15:55:27] <Zathras> it does not, so it seems
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• 2295[15:55:49] <jelly> Zathras: and line 28 has a $ where you maybe just wanted to #
• 2296[15:56:21] <jelly> Zathras: man 5 bridge-utils-interfaces
• 2297[15:56:25] <Zathras> ah. yes. ty
• 2298[15:57:00] <Zathras> jelly, any idea why the netinst installer created a vlan raw_device config? Seems over complicated to me
• 2299[15:57:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1614
• 2300[15:57:22] <jelly> be lucky, it used to not support vlans at all
• 2301[15:57:34] <jelly> I prefer eth0.5 syntax
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• 2303[15:59:21] <rant> strk: I believe you're doing that backwards..
• 2304[15:59:25] <Zathras> ah. ifup -v gives an error: can't add wlp4s0 to bridge virbr0: operation npt supported
• 2305[15:59:34] <Zathras> makes sense as that interface does not exist
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• 2307[16:00:02] <rant> strk: rdpends tells you what depends on the package you specify.. you'd want to specify one of the X packages
• 2308[16:00:32] <Zathras> at least not in the interface definition, but is does show up in ifconfig
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• 2311[16:01:47] <rmrfchik> why rsync won't copy new files when syncing local dirs?
• 2312[16:02:00] <rmrfchik> new -- newly created, not updated
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• 2316[16:03:46] <Zathras> lol. It is not possible to bridge between wireless and wired interfaces
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• 2318[16:03:48] <Zathras> joy
• 2319[16:04:06] <jelly> rmrfchik: it depends, how precisely are you calling it?
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• 2324[16:06:15] <rmrfchik> rsync -a --verbose --progress localsrc localdst
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• 2327[16:06:56] <jelly> rmrfchik: both directories without / at the end?
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• 2331[16:07:36] <rmrfchik> jelly, yes
• 2332[16:07:39] <jelly> that ought to work
• 2333[16:07:53] <jelly> which filesystem type on the source?
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• 2335[16:08:15] <rmrfchik> next I do "diff -r localsrc localdst" and see a lot of files in localsrc
• 2336[16:08:18] <rmrfchik> ext4
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• 2338[16:09:08] <jelly> rmrfchik: I think you should compare "diff -r localsrc localdst/$(basename localsrc)"
• 2339[16:09:44] <jelly> because source dir without / at the end will copy the dir itself as well, not just its contents
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• 2342[16:10:34] <jelly> if you want to only rsync contents, put / at the end: rsync -Pa localsrc/ localdst/
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• 2344[16:11:00] <rmrfchik> jelly, / helped! thanks!
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• 2349[16:12:26] <n4dir> as i always confused the syntax with / and no-/, i worked around by using rsync -a stuff/* (assuming that is what i wanted).
• 2350[16:12:36] <jelly> rmrfchik: you now have two copies of things, so remove localdst/localsrc
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• 2352[16:12:59] <jelly> n4dir: doing foo/* is probably the worst thing to do
• 2353[16:13:04] <greycat> I almost always try to do cd /source && rsync -a . /dest/
• 2354[16:13:09] <jelly> especially in scripts
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• 2356[16:13:15] <n4dir> jelly: why that=
• 2357[16:13:22] <greycat> because it won't match dotfiles
• 2358[16:13:28] <jelly> it's very easy to mess it up
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• 2360[16:13:39] <jelly> globdots or not
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• 2362[16:14:00] <n4dir> greycat: a sure. didn't have that problem. jelly i didn't mess anything up with it.
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• 2364[16:14:04] <greycat> It's also conceptually messy to specify umpteen jillion source files and directories instead of one.
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• 2366[16:14:22] <jelly> there was more than one brouhaha where someone's script did rm -r "${foo}"/* but foo went undefined
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• 2368[16:14:46] <greycat> that's still bad even without the *
• 2369[16:14:53] <n4dir> i thought we were speaking of rsync, and its specific oddities when it comes to using / or no /
• 2370[16:14:59] <jelly> it's still bad without -r
• 2371[16:15:19] <jelly> n4dir: that * is not parsed by rsync, but your shell
• 2372[16:15:21] <Iridos> mh, no, rm or even rm -rf without a further option just does nothing
• 2373[16:15:35] <greycat> Iridos: the / is the argument
• 2374[16:15:37] <Iridos> and rm -rf / refuses to delete
• 2375[16:15:42] <greycat> for YOU
• 2376[16:15:50] <greycat> (yeah I know, #debian, so it's GNU rm...)
• 2377[16:15:56] <jelly> Iridos: okay, so do "foo=; rm $foo/*" then
• 2378[16:16:00] <Iridos> for all linux systems since 2000ish using gnu rm…
• 2379[16:16:05] <greycat> jelly: oh god, no.
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• 2381[16:16:24] <greycat> Iridos: not everyone is on Linux, but fine, it's #debian. So you "win".
• 2382[16:16:26] <Iridos> the one with expansion is of course bad
• 2383[16:16:29] <Iridos> :D
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• 2386[16:16:50] <n4dir> well: at least you could use /* as a quick reminder, that if you use /, you will rsync the files and folders, and if you don't use it, you will rsync the whole directory. Then skip it.
• 2387[16:16:57] <Iridos> yeah, I just didn't see the slash at first… I meant rm -rf "$foo" should be ok
• 2388[16:17:24] <Iridos> but either is better than $foo/*
• 2389[16:17:25] <greycat> !break
• 2390[16:17:25] <dpkg> "This release is currently considered ``unstable''. That means that things *will* break if you run it." (quote from old page replaced-url
• 2391[16:17:50] <blanketyblank> t3st3r: thanks again for all of your help. that was incredibly helpful. gotta go.
• 2392[16:17:53] <blanketyblank> later all
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• 2394[16:18:02] <jelly> /* ends up being just a bad idea
• 2395[16:18:32] <n4dir> fucking up / or no / with a huge amount of data is also not that much fun.
• 2396[16:18:52] <jelly> good thing rsync has -n
• 2397[16:19:09] <jelly> if you're only 99% sure what it's going to do, do a dry run
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• 2403[16:21:26] <n4dir> looks like rsync syncs dot files, greycat
• 2404[16:21:41] <greycat> n4dir: yes, as long as you don't fuck it up by specifying source/* instead of source/
• 2405[16:22:03] <greycat> source/* is expanded by the SHELL and will (normally) exclude dotfiles
• 2406[16:22:06] <n4dir> ah, sorry.
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• 2409[16:22:42] <colo-work> bash: use `shopt -s dotglob` (at your own peril) to change that
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• 2411[16:23:04] <greycat> This is one of the reasons why I always try to arrange things such that I can do "rsync -a . /dest/". I know how that will behave, so I won't be surprised.
• 2412[16:23:24] <n4dir> yeah, at least a workaround for the / mess
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• 2414[16:23:40] <colo-work> yes, that's good advise. rsync behaves "creatively" when you miss or append a trailing / to either src or dest
• 2415[16:23:49] <colo-work> I get that wring at least one out of ten times
• 2416[16:23:51] <colo-work> wrong*
• 2417[16:23:52] <colo-work> even
• 2418[16:24:13] <greycat> conveniently, ./ and . behave the same way
• 2419[16:24:15] <colo-work> also, --dry-run
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• 2422[16:25:14] <petn-randall> It's always good to memorize that "foo/baz" refers to the directory "baz", whereas "foo/baz/" refers to the contents within "baz".
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• 2432[16:27:47] <rmrfchik> petn-randall, ls, rm and others don't see the difference
• 2433[16:28:08] <n4dir> yup, you run into it pretty unprepared.
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• 2436[16:29:56] <rmrfchik> what filesystem with snapshots is mature (reliable)? speed is not the case, I want to use it for backups for personal files.
• 2437[16:30:11] <colo-work> just use LVM.
• 2438[16:30:14] <greycat> Do you really need file system snapshots instead of LVM snapshots?
• 2439[16:30:23] <rmrfchik> (rsync files; snapshot per day, delete month old snapshots)
• 2440[16:30:26] <jelly> colo-work: "creatively"? It's documented (and it makes sense)
• 2441[16:30:34] *** Quits: super_gollum (~ich@replaced-ip) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
• 2442[16:30:47] <jelly> rmrfchik: zfs
• 2443[16:30:50] <colo-work> jelly, both very true, but I still manage to get it wrong regularly :)
• 2444[16:30:55] <rmrfchik> I want to backup across network
• 2445[16:31:11] *** Quits: llucenic (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 2446[16:31:14] <greycat> AnyFS on top of LVM can use LVM snapshots.
• 2447[16:31:19] <jelly> nod. I know enough to always use / for dest. and know what it means for source.
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• 2451[16:31:40] <jelly> rmrfchik: zfs.
• 2452[16:31:43] *** Joins: mibo (~mibo@replaced-ip)
• 2453[16:32:33] <rmrfchik> jelly, thanks, will read (compare to btrfs actually)
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• 2455[16:33:05] <greycat> The only thing you need to know about btrfs is never use btrfs. This greatly simplifies every decision tree.
• 2456[16:33:07] <jelly> btrfs is not stable enough, and honestly after 10 years one wonders if it will ever be
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• 2459[16:33:31] <jelly> maybe after Reiser gets out of jail
• 2460[16:33:33] * jelly hides
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• 2462[16:34:38] <brwoods> btrfs isn't THAT bad if you don't use RAID 5/6
• 2463[16:34:44] <rmrfchik> hopes Reiser will have enough time [in jail] to polish?
• 2464[16:34:44] *** Quits: vvor (~vvor@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 2465[16:34:51] <brwoods> now RAID 5/6? that's a big nope.
• 2466[16:35:00] <greycat> Then why does someone ask us why they're getting "no space on device" at least once a week?
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• 2469[16:35:30] <rmrfchik> jelly, I always thought zsh in linux is made from scratch, not ported. I was wrong?
• 2470[16:35:38] <rmrfchik> zfs*
• 2471[16:36:03] <brwoods> greycat: not sure, could be a lot of things in the chain from btrfs to LK to debian to user.
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• 2495[16:48:51] <qman__> rmrfchik: ZFS on Linux is a port of OpenZFS, which is what FreeBSD and other open source platforms use; I'm unclear on the exact history of OpenZFS from the original Sun CDDL ZFS, but it looks like a fork
• 2496[16:49:25] <qman__> so, in short, no, it was not reimplemented from scratch
• 2497[16:49:27] <rmrfchik> qman__, ahh... sounds better, thanks
• 2498[16:50:02] <BCMM> ok something is definitely up with the contacts app. when i select a pair of duplicated contacts, it only counts 1 selected contact in the bar at the top
• 2499[16:50:17] <BCMM> oh sorry wrong channel
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• 2542[17:17:11] <tomatoLotto> hello
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• 2546[17:18:08] <alkisg> Hello
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• 2558[17:21:05] <svip> I know the Pi3 preview image is unsupported, but I wanted to ask why it doesn't seem to engage the Ethernet? I see no lights blinking at all.
• 2559[17:21:13] <svip> Is this a known issue?
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• 2567[17:24:13] <petn-randall> svip: replaced-url
• 2568[17:24:34] <petn-randall> svip: I'd check the mailing list or the bug tracker, my guess is that it's not usable yet.
• 2569[17:24:54] <svip> petn-randall: All right.
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• 2572[17:27:30] <nikitasius> hi folks! need help >>
• 2573[17:27:35] <nikitasius> i have a server#1 with external IP [10.0.0.1,10.0.0.2,10.0.0.3] and i have server#2 with external IP [10.0.0.4,10.0.0.5,10.0.0.6]. Servers are connected localy, and server#1 have [192.168.0.1,192.168.0.2,192.168.0.3], while server #2 have [192.168.0.4,192.168.0.5,192.168.0.6]. I need to add a route on server #1 and/or server#2, when server#1 connect via 192.168.0.1 to external server, it will go into the web
• 2574[17:27:37] <nikitasius> via 10.0.0.4 of #2 server. When server#2 receive something on 10.0.0.4, it will go to server#1 on ip 192.168.0.1. Like i need to route traffic from server #1 via server #2 into the web, using local IPs from server#1 what will be routed via external IP from server#2.
• 2575[17:28:41] <greycat> You completely lost me at "go into the web".
• 2576[17:29:35] <darokthar> Thus your setup looks like this: gateway <- Server1 (is gateway for) <- Server2
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• 2580[17:30:43] <greycat> "external" must also mean something very different from what I imagined it to mean
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• 2583[17:32:00] <Zathras> nikitasius, probably best is to define a textfile describing your servers interface based and describe the desired route. Next paste that on paste.debian.net
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• 2588[17:36:11] <nikitasius> Zathras: i will try. yep.
• 2589[17:36:17] *** Joins: bbdgl (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 2590[17:36:47] <nikitasius> darokthar: yep in case if server #1 user local IPs to connect external resources.
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• 2592[17:38:01] <greycat> and you're using 10.0.0.1 to mean "external"? do you mean "external as in outside of the server room, but still accessible only to other workers in my company", or is the 10.0.0.1 a complete fabrication and the actual IP is something like 139.234.157.3?
• 2593[17:38:57] <greycat> And what does "the web" have to do with any of it?
• 2594[17:39:04] <nikitasius> greycat: yes, 10.0.0.1 just in example for this task. real IPs are another
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• 2600[17:40:21] <nikitasius> debian server#1, have eth0 with main ipv4 and eth0:x pack of ipv4 (subnet). server#2 have eth0:x subnet too with external ipv4
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• 2602[17:40:45] <nikitasius> same time each have eth1:x for local ips.
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• 2605[17:41:25] <nikitasius> i need: server#1 user own local ip -> ... routing ... -> server#2 using external IP...
• 2606[17:41:29] <nikitasius> *use
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• 2608[17:42:22] <greycat> Is server2 running a web server? Is that where "the web" comes into the picture?
• 2609[17:42:39] <nikitasius> like: telnet google.com 80 -> will connect from external IP from server #1 as default. telnet -b 192.168.0.1 google.com 80 -> will connect via 10.0.0.4 (external IP) from 2nd server
• 2610[17:42:41] <greycat> Is server1 trying to retrieve info from sever2's *web server*?
• 2611[17:42:53] <greycat> No, they're talking to google.com?
• 2612[17:43:02] <nikitasius> just an example
• 2613[17:43:06] <greycat> .,..
• 2614[17:43:15] <nikitasius> telnet -b - you select interface for telnet
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• 2616[17:43:23] <greycat> How about you stop giving "examples" and give the actual question.
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• 2618[17:44:00] <nikitasius> greycat: you're already got it. lemme make it shorter
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• 2620[17:45:13] <greycat> You run apache2 (guessing) on server2 and curl (guessing) on server1 talking to s2's apache, but you want apache to THINK that the connection came in through the public IP when it actually did not? Or did you want to screw with netfilter to make it actually *really* come in on the public IP?
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• 2624[17:46:08] <greycat> (Why do you CARE which interface apache thinks the client came through?)
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• 2628[17:47:13] <nikitasius> server#1: (all external IPs are another) local 192.168.0.1 eth1:0; external 10.0.0.1 eth0:0. server#2 local 192.168.0.4 eth1:0; external 10.0.0.4 eth0:0. i need when i run on server #1 `telnet -b 192.168.0.1 google.com 80` google will receive request FROM 10.0.0.4 IP, i.e. from 2nd server. i need to route ALL tcp/ip traffic like this. `telnet -b <intercace> <target> <port>` - about telnet.
• 2629[17:47:37] *** Quits: N3V3RM1^D (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: N3V3RM1^D)
• 2630[17:47:38] <greycat> So they're not talking to each other. They are talking to google.com.
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• 2632[17:48:14] <nikitasius> greycat: i need to route _local_ traffic from server #1 via server #2 to any destinations.
• 2633[17:48:17] <greycat> This is sounding like a #netfilter question.
• 2634[17:48:18] *** Quits: P1ersson (~P1ersson@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2635[17:48:59] <nikitasius> it's a debian channel, i had a hope what folks know here about network routing for debian (cause debian on servers and i have no access to router)
• 2636[17:49:20] <combro2k> Look at transparant proxying :-)
• 2637[17:49:57] <greycat> Spoofing your outgoing traffic packets so that your connections to google appear to come from your coworker's machine are definitely not something you would expect #debian to know. This is why we refer you to specialist channels like #netfilter when the problems are too detailed and specialized for us.
• 2638[17:50:04] <nikitasius> like [S#1 192.168.0.1] -> [S#2 192.168.0.4]--(S#2 10.0.0.4) -> inet
• 2639[17:50:11] <nikitasius> combro2k: yep+- guess yes.
• 2640[17:50:25] <nikitasius> greycat: there is no spoon and no google.
• 2641[17:50:42] <greycat> Then you are a filthy useless liar and I am done.
• 2642[17:51:04] <greycat> At least TWO TIMES you specifically said you were connecting to google.com.
• 2643[17:51:23] <greycat> You lied about the IP addresses and made them appear to be local (10.*) when you meant public.
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• 2645[17:51:27] <nikitasius> in example for telnet command where you can specify an interface to show it.
• 2646[17:51:37] <nikitasius> everyone lies.
• 2647[17:51:53] <nikitasius> combro2k: you have some tips about this proxying on network level..?
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• 2650[17:52:41] <nikitasius> combro2k: when local request to 192.168.0.1 on server #1 will pass to 192.168.0.4 on server #2 and leave server #2 via 10.0.0.4 external ip? like this route is fixed
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• 2653[17:54:07] <combro2k> nikitas: replaced-url
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• 2658[17:55:35] <nikitasius> combro2k: i will look, thanks. but here are no http. it;s all tcp/ip. i.e. any
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• 2660[17:57:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1600
• 2661[17:57:06] <combro2k> nikitas: its a while ago since I did that on my local network. ip -4 route then, all non 10.0.0.0/24 on eth0 other reroute via ip -4 route add 0.0.0.0/0 to 10.0.0.4 or the other ip 192.168.0.4
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• 2668[17:58:17] <nikitasius> combro2k: i will look for route commands :) im bad with this
• 2669[17:58:21] <combro2k> nikitas: on the other end you need to enable ipv4 forwarding (out of my head)
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• 2676[18:00:32] <nikitasius> yep, like i forward from eth1 (local#1) to eth1(local #2) and from eth1(local#2) to eth0 (ext #2)
• 2677[18:01:04] <nikitasius> reason i need it: i need to have more than 256 ips per server.
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• 2679[18:01:14] <nikitasius> (datacenter limit 256 per server)
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• 2682[18:01:53] <combro2k> Might also look at iptables masquerade if it is needed as well. Yeah imagine, I use docker containers with some other subnets
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• 2690[18:03:54] <combro2k> What you exactly want is server2 is acting as an router for server1 right?
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• 2693[18:06:36] <nikitasius> combro2k: as a router for smtp connections.
• 2694[18:06:52] *** Quits: bentlema_ (~bentlema@replaced-ip) ()
• 2695[18:06:53] <nikitasius> i have 256 external IPs on server#1 and 256 on 2nd.
• 2696[18:07:00] <nikitasius> i need to map 512 ips on server 1.
• 2697[18:07:06] <jelly> are you an ESP or just a spammer? :-)
• 2698[18:07:09] <nikitasius> solution: via loca ips
• 2699[18:07:14] <greycat> combro2k: for whatever it's worth, it did NOT sound like he wanted to simply NAT server1 behind server2 to me, but he couldn't speak coherently, so...
• 2700[18:07:34] <jelly> who needs /23 IP addresses for outgoing email?
• 2701[18:07:40] <nikitasius> jelly: not a spammer, it;s a server for "marketing" for my client. legal soft $_$ etc.
• 2702[18:07:55] *** Joins: darokthar (~darokthar@replaced-ip)
• 2703[18:08:08] <nikitasius> jelly: if you send 480million mails per month with targeting to 30 million subscribers :)
• 2704[18:08:18] <combro2k> I know more companies who use 2 blocks of IPs ;-)
• 2705[18:08:31] <nikitasius> dont look at usa. loook at europe.
• 2706[18:08:40] <nikitasius> in europe ISP are assholes.
• 2707[18:08:49] <nikitasius> so you seriosly need to use lower rates
• 2708[18:08:56] <nikitasius> that for USA (gmail, yahoo etc)
• 2709[18:09:06] <jelly> s/assholes/protecting their customers from crap/
• 2710[18:09:32] <nikitasius> jelly: wish you to work one day with big client like this. they doesn't sent crp.
• 2711[18:09:45] <nikitasius> *crap. crap - for folks who run crached powermta etc
• 2712[18:09:48] *** Joins: esro (~esro@replaced-ip)
• 2713[18:10:09] <nikitasius> here targeting, unsubscribe. all folks are subscribed.
• 2714[18:10:22] <nikitasius> well. we doesnt speak about details :_
• 2715[18:10:26] <nikitasius> :)
• 2716[18:10:29] *** Joins: qeyoa (~ais@replaced-ip)
• 2717[18:10:44] <nikitasius> reason: proxy smtp traffic. thats all.
• 2718[18:11:02] <nikitasius> cheap way. instead of buying 2nd license for 2nd server.
• 2719[18:11:23] *** Quits: chomwitt (~chomwitt@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
• 2720[18:11:25] *** Quits: ongolaBoy (~ongolaBoy@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
• 2721[18:11:25] <combro2k> Maybe a smtp loadbalancing will suffice then
• 2722[18:11:46] <nikitasius> combro2k: i use powermta. it balance itself.
• 2723[18:11:55] *** Quits: _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2724[18:11:55] <nikitasius> btw awesome stuff for console folks :)
• 2725[18:12:12] <nikitasius> i need to map to this pmta 512 ips and sleep well.
• 2726[18:12:25] *** Joins: Canucktux (~quassel@replaced-ip)
• 2727[18:12:37] <nikitasius> user mailerq too, but personally prefer powermta
• 2728[18:13:21] <nikitasius> jelly: btw, they aren't protecting :) you pay then, whey whitelist you and remove from all filters.
• 2729[18:13:39] <nikitasius> thats bad.
• 2730[18:13:57] *** Quits: mos3abof (~mosab@replaced-ip) (Quit: mos3abof)
• 2731[18:14:54] *** Quits: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 2732[18:15:19] <combro2k> Then its a bit complex but perhaps iptables might help, you can use destination with destination port nat I guess to server 2 and from there to the eth0
• 2733[18:15:35] *** Quits: herbmillerjr (~herbmille@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2734[18:15:54] <jelly> ie. ask in #netfilter
• 2735[18:16:08] *** Quits: MrAlexandr0 (~MrAlexand@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 2736[18:16:14] <combro2k> Like that to guide you further ;-)
• 2737[18:16:20] *** Quits: Zvmdyv (~Zvmdyv@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2738[18:16:24] *** Joins: _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@replaced-ip)
• 2739[18:16:56] <combro2k> I need to catch my train here :-P
• 2740[18:17:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1594
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• 2745[18:18:04] *** Quits: darokthar (~darokthar@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2746[18:18:06] <combro2k> Its btw all about the money in the mass/bulk mailing world :-P
• 2747[18:18:27] *** Joins: bodi (~hiexpo@replaced-ip)
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• 2750[18:21:13] *** Quits: Krennic (~Krennic@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2751[18:21:54] <jelly> which is another reason I'm not all too ready to help such a customer for free
• 2752[18:22:00] *** Joins: digitalnomad91 (~digitalno@replaced-ip)
• 2753[18:23:12] <combro2k> ;-) I can imagine, I give them a bit of direction and thats it. Filtering so called bulk mail which unwanted is already my daily job :-P
• 2754[18:23:46] *** Quits: luchus (~luchus@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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• 2756[18:24:28] *** Quits: jradd (~jradd@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 2757[18:25:28] <combro2k> Working at an ISP webhosting company a pack of servers and daily basis we got complaints about spam going through our spamfilters so hate unwanted bulk mails ;-)
• 2758[18:26:13] *** Quits: Thedarkb (~beno@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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• 2763[18:29:12] <jelly> I don't have anything against opt-in mails sent once every two days, but snowshoeing on a zillion outbound IPs is a red flag
• 2764[18:29:14] *** Quits: Quantumcross (~weechat@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1)
• 2765[18:31:00] *** Joins: circ-user-a60eK (~circuser-@replaced-ip)
• 2766[18:31:49] <nikitasius> jelly: you know, im helping folks here for free. when i know where to help (nginx for example). seriosly - i dont care what people do: run a porn website or a blog.
• 2767[18:31:55] <nikitasius> but i helped both.
• 2768[18:32:23] *** Joins: Mazhive (~Mazhive@replaced-ip)
• 2769[18:32:25] <jelly> nothing against porn sites, either
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• 2771[18:32:40] *** Joins: Quantumcross (~weechat@replaced-ip)
• 2772[18:32:55] <combro2k> Depends if multiple clients are using the servers, isolating ips for domains. If it is still for one client either its an big company, think of A large group of people it might be safer to use a block of IPs but yes it could be a red flag. But an ISP who runs multiple IPs and got an abuse submission might take down the server itself
• 2773[18:32:56] <nikitasius> i was thinking what you're from.. you know, people with cross. blablblajesus, spam is a sin, porn is a sin etc.
• 2774[18:32:57] *** Joins: ilCyx86_64 (~ilCyx86_6@replaced-ip)
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• 2778[18:33:44] <nikitasius> combro2k: you need to respect rates (unique per ISP), have 2 DKIM + dmarc + spf, have tonns of tags in mail and well made mails.
• 2779[18:34:08] *** Joins: LioneLL (~Pidgin@replaced-ip)
• 2780[18:34:47] <greycat> So... his actual question was "I have two outgoing mail servers s1 and s2, and s1 has been blacklisted, so I want to relay all of my outgoing spam through s2"?
• 2781[18:35:07] <nikitasius> combro2k: i started to work with them in aug'2017 and im learning this bulk-mail world step by step. cause i had exp in mail configuratuon, i made then 10/10. But with bulk rates. all you need - respect rates.
• 2782[18:35:10] <combro2k> Im pretty easy with that, if an ISP put a lot of of unwanted BULK mail I report them to the ISP and to the Dutch opta, and they will give an fine to them as high as the roof and they will feel it
• 2783[18:35:10] *** Quits: Serpent7776 (~Serpent77@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2784[18:35:21] <greycat> Why involve netfilter at all? Just relay the mail at the MTA level.
• 2785[18:35:23] *** Quits: Tiffon (~name@replaced-ip) (Quit: exit)
• 2786[18:35:56] <nikitasius> greycat: nope, i need to proxy traffic from local ips from server#1 via external ips server#2 (guess with using local ips from serve#2). but nvm i got some ideas here, i will google them better.
• 2787[18:36:21] <nikitasius> greycat: linux routes pain in my ass, i never worked with them well and a lot.
• 2788[18:36:23] <nikitasius> :)
• 2789[18:36:30] <combro2k> Respect rates indeed and respect people who doesnt like it ;-)
• 2790[18:36:58] <nikitasius> combro2k: when you unsubsribe, you removed form list.
• 2791[18:37:14] <nikitasius> but people love IT news, shopping news etc.
• 2792[18:37:31] *** Quits: MarioBranco (~MarioBran@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2793[18:37:35] <nikitasius> i love to read sometimes new offers (hardwar) when they are really nice.
• 2794[18:37:44] <jelly> greycat: mostly because MTA level is horribly slow at 20M messages per day
• 2795[18:38:00] <combro2k> Initial subscription? Checkbox when you signup, opt-in that what I look for ;-)
• 2796[18:38:02] <nikitasius> 20mil per day..? emm...
• 2797[18:38:25] <jelly> nikitasius: 480M / month, you said
• 2798[18:38:25] <nikitasius> well... i can say: 10,000 mails per IP per ISP.
• 2799[18:38:30] <nikitasius> ahh yes.
• 2800[18:38:45] <nikitasius> i mean you can have more, but currently they have 480 on old scheme
• 2801[18:39:09] <nikitasius> speed depends of your `status` and how ips are warmed.
• 2802[18:39:26] <nikitasius> i.e. 1 week, 2 weeks to get +-best ratio
• 2803[18:39:35] <jelly> nikitasius: and your software doesn't do horizontal scaling on multiple servers?
• 2804[18:39:35] *** Quits: a_l_b (~a_l_b@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2805[18:39:46] *** Joins: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip)
• 2806[18:39:52] <nikitasius> jelly: do. but you need to instal it + pay licence
• 2807[18:39:56] *** Quits: HarveyPwca (~HarveyPwc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 2808[18:39:58] <nikitasius> i.e. core + nodes
• 2809[18:40:01] <nikitasius> core can be a node
• 2810[18:40:05] <nikitasius> for core..
• 2811[18:40:08] <jelly> nikitasius: I can solve this for just 25% of that price :-D
• 2812[18:40:22] *** Quits: uniqdom (~mcastillo@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2813[18:40:24] <nikitasius> jelly: i pay 1 dollar for it. im a poor guy.
• 2814[18:40:29] <jelly> riiight
• 2815[18:40:40] <nikitasius> i can send you 25 cents via paypal, but payoal takes 3 bucks for..
• 2816[18:40:49] *** Joins: herbmillerjr (~herbmille@replaced-ip)
• 2817[18:40:55] *** Joins: rsx (~rsx@replaced-ip)
• 2818[18:41:21] <nikitasius> jelly: seriosly no worry, i will google. today 14 feb. im going to have a nice dinner in a restorant with my wife. so work - for tomorrow only :)
• 2819[18:41:34] *** Joins: Thedarkb (~beno@replaced-ip)
• 2820[18:41:35] <jelly> nikitasius: ok, then spend another $1 for the second server and you're done
• 2821[18:41:49] <greycat> Also, I feel vindicated that my guess of "Spoofing your outgoing traffic packets so that your connections to google appear to come from your coworker's machine" was about 95% correct.
• 2822[18:42:00] *** Joins: shtrb (~shtrb@replaced-ip)
• 2823[18:42:02] <combro2k> Have a good time ;-)
• 2824[18:42:05] <nikitasius> jelly: software price ~15k$ per licence/year. depends. i cant share real prices here. But google will confirm.
• 2825[18:42:12] *** Joins: dpl (~dpl@replaced-ip)
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• 2827[18:42:24] <nikitasius> combro2k: thanks :)
• 2828[18:42:38] *** Joins: sh00p (~z@replaced-ip)
• 2829[18:42:47] *** Joins: tugrik (~username@replaced-ip)
• 2830[18:42:59] * jelly totally okay with $3750 for a set of iptables rules
• 2831[18:43:20] <jelly> if you PROMISE your mail is opt-in only :-)
• 2832[18:43:20] *** Quits: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2833[18:43:21] *** Joins: Xano (~Xano@replaced-ip)
• 2834[18:43:52] <nikitasius> jelly: you;re wrong with debian lifestyle. guess you're on windows here >>
• 2835[18:44:07] <leachim6> ^OOOOH BURN
• 2836[18:44:23] *** Joins: Darcidride_ (~Darcidrid@replaced-ip)
• 2837[18:44:23] *** Quits: darokthar (~darokthar@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2838[18:44:24] <nikitasius> im with weechat 1.0.1 \m/(>.<)\m/ here :D
• 2839[18:44:38] <leachim6> woah, your weechat is old man
• 2840[18:44:45] *** Joins: hypn0 (~h@replaced-ip)
• 2841[18:44:50] <nikitasius> leachim6: debian loveold
• 2842[18:45:00] <leachim6> WeeChat 2.1-dev (git: v2.0-83-g257d5fe15) [compiled on Jan 16 2018 00:09:47]
• 2843[18:45:07] *** Quits: sleepingdeforest (~sleepingf@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 2844[18:45:11] <greycat> ,v weechat
• 2845[18:45:12] <judd> Package: weechat on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.3.8-1+deb7u1; wheezy-security: 0.3.8-1+deb7u3; wheezy-backports: 0.4.3-2~bpo70+1; wheezy-backports: 1.0.1-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1; jessie-security: 1.0.1-1+deb8u1; jessie: 1.0.1-1+deb8u2; jessie-backports: 1.6-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1; stretch: 1.6-1+deb9u2; sid: 1.9-1; buster: 1.9.1-1; sid: 1.9.1-1
• 2846[18:45:24] <combro2k> Debian lifestyle didn't know there was one :-P then its an DIY project :-P
• 2847[18:45:25] <brwoods> you could say, it's a wee out of date
• 2848[18:45:31] <leachim6> ^huehuehue
• 2849[18:45:42] <leachim6> well just like most things on *nix
• 2850[18:45:49] <shtrb> I just got an amazing notification with plasma (KDE) that I need to charge my device (connected with a wireless dongle) and I wish to understand how that works, anyone have ideas where to search (couldn't find a low charged battery and too lazy to build a joultheif)
• 2851[18:45:50] <leachim6> if it works for you, then I have no complaints
• 2852[18:46:11] <leachim6> shtrb: there's a part of the bluetooth spec that does it, bluez-tools provides it
• 2853[18:46:12] *** Quits: jguillen (~jguillen@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2854[18:46:24] <shtrb> leachim6, thanks
• 2855[18:46:24] *** Joins: Nudist69-M (~nnend@replaced-ip)
• 2856[18:46:44] <leachim6> ^ np :D
• 2857[18:46:52] <nikitasius> shtrb: i hhave amazing notifications whiteonblack when debian8 didnt fond wifi drivers :)
• 2858[18:46:54] *** Joins: darokthar (~darokthar@replaced-ip)
• 2859[18:47:06] <leachim6> probably a nonfree driver :/
• 2860[18:47:12] <leachim6> unfortuantely it's still a huge problem with wifi
• 2861[18:47:23] *** Quits: turfal (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: turfal)
• 2862[18:47:26] * leachim6 shakes his fist at the sky and yells BROADCOMMMMM
• 2863[18:47:30] <shtrb> stuff not working is normal, but when you see a feature you have never seen it is fun
• 2864[18:47:31] <combro2k> So you are running at wheezy or squeeze.. poor you :-p
• 2865[18:47:32] <nikitasius> btw debian 8 had libpam mysql (or something like that) from 2006 year, while on github new version what finally included into debian 9 (what support sha1)
• 2866[18:47:47] * shtrb fundle bcm3XXX
• 2867[18:47:48] <jelly> most of the drivers are free; the firmware needed is usually not
• 2868[18:48:06] <nikitasius> leachim6: with my laptop i was able to install debian8 with disabling wifi in bios :)
• 2869[18:48:12] *** Joins: siiky (~siiky@replaced-ip)
• 2870[18:48:14] <nikitasius> cause it fucked installation:)
• 2871[18:48:26] <nikitasius> after i enabled and installed drivers, yep.
• 2872[18:48:35] *** Quits: Gaaab (~Gaaab@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2873[18:48:39] <shtrb> no wifi for debian 8 :)
• 2874[18:48:47] <nikitasius> :P
• 2875[18:48:59] <nikitasius> debian8 & xfce <3
• 2876[18:49:07] <combro2k> Wifi is so old fasion :-P cable is much better :-D
• 2877[18:49:07] <nikitasius> need a new laptop with 9th on it.
• 2878[18:49:21] <shtrb> nikitasius, wait for the new smart laptop charges no kernel driver and closed source - that is going to be fun
• 2879[18:49:28] <nikitasius> combro2k: my dog already eated powersupply cord so i repaired it and lost 10cm :)
• 2880[18:49:43] <shtrb> #debian-offtopic maybe ?
• 2881[18:49:47] <leachim6> nikitasius: it is worth mentioning the debian nonfree firmware CD
• 2882[18:49:55] <leachim6> it's not officially supported which is why you won't see docs on it here
• 2883[18:49:59] <nikitasius> shtrb: yep, it's a hardware problems (dog)
• 2884[18:50:10] <combro2k> Dog eating stuff, better give him some real food :-P haha
• 2885[18:50:14] <leachim6> it's kind of in limbo because Debian does not officially support nonfree firmware, but it is a community project
• 2886[18:50:26] <leachim6> not even sure what the policy on sharing that info is here
• 2887[18:50:33] *** Quits: arsr (~arsr@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2888[18:50:35] <jelly> !firmware images
• 2889[18:50:35] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See replaced-url
• 2890[18:50:51] <leachim6> ok cool thanks jelly, so I provided the correct amount of disclaimers, heh
• 2891[18:50:58] *** Joins: jradd (~jradd@replaced-ip)
• 2892[18:51:04] <nikitasius> i have no problems with wifi. all is ok. i was here just for asking about prpxy between servers.
• 2893[18:51:24] *** Joins: LtL (~ltl@replaced-ip)
• 2894[18:51:26] <leachim6> oh cool, what kind of proxy?
• 2895[18:51:33] <leachim6> ssh proxy, vpn, SQUID proxy?
• 2896[18:51:34] *** Quits: darokthar (~darokthar@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2897[18:51:43] *** Quits: Nekojimi (~jimj316@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2898[18:51:48] <shtrb> facebook proxy :P
• 2899[18:51:49] *** Joins: kliq (~cliq@replaced-ip)
• 2900[18:52:01] <shtrb> aka vampire vpn
• 2901[18:52:34] <combro2k> I think thats the sales mentality :-P come with you want coffee, go home with a full blown diner :-P
• 2902[18:52:48] <nikitasius> leachim6: on network level. i,e, when you user local 192.168.0.1 local interface on server#1, it will route to 192.168.0.5 on server#2 and escape via external IP on server #2.
• 2903[18:52:50] *** Joins: rozie (~rozie@replaced-ip)
• 2904[18:52:53] <nikitasius> *use
• 2905[18:53:15] <leachim6> sounds like you want a site-to-site VPN with a bit of iptables magic
• 2906[18:53:26] <shtrb> or good old openvpn + default gw
• 2907[18:53:33] <leachim6> ^much simpler solution
• 2908[18:53:39] <nikitasius> like `telnet -b 192.168.0.1 google.com 80` on serve #1, it will leave from server#2 and return to server#2 and will be returned to S#1.
• 2909[18:53:52] *** Joins: darokthar (~darokthar@replaced-ip)
• 2910[18:53:55] <jelly> nikitasius: you need a way to have a MTA running on one machine output some messages using IP addresses bound to another machine. It might not have to be a proxy.
• 2911[18:53:56] <nikitasius> leachim6: i will use ovh vrack. so i have no access to router.
• 2912[18:54:00] *** Quits: darokthar (~darokthar@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 2913[18:54:02] <JustASlacker> ssh -D 8080 server1
• 2914[18:54:04] <shtrb> nikitasius, you can also just use ssh tunnels
• 2915[18:54:11] <JustASlacker> then use port 8080 as socks proxy
• 2916[18:54:16] <leachim6> sshtunnels are the simplest
• 2917[18:54:17] <JustASlacker> done
• 2918[18:54:34] <leachim6> plus you can setup ssh to use a persistent socket in the config
• 2919[18:54:39] *** Joins: annadane (~annadane@replaced-ip)
• 2920[18:54:45] *** Joins: darokthar (~darokthar@replaced-ip)
• 2921[18:54:52] <leachim6> go ahead and `man ssh` I'll wait
• 2922[18:54:57] <nikitasius> leachim6: im worry about CPU usage
• 2923[18:55:02] <leachim6> nikitasius: I wouldn't
• 2924[18:55:10] <combro2k> Ssh is not hungry
• 2925[18:55:11] <nikitasius> if you need to encrypt 1Gbit?)
• 2926[18:55:16] <leachim6> nikitasius: works fine with a raspberry pi as the server
• 2927[18:55:26] <leachim6> if you have a VPS/Server at OVH it would be totally fine
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• 2930[18:55:44] *** Quits: oish_ (~charlie@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2931[18:55:47] <leachim6> there's also sshuttle which automates a but of this
• 2932[18:55:53] *** Quits: jradd (~jradd@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 2933[18:56:01] <nikitasius> but ssh tunnels.. normally you need to setup ports with.
• 2934[18:56:11] <leachim6> ,v sshuttle
• 2935[18:56:12] <judd> Package: sshuttle on amd64 -- jessie: 0.54-2; wheezy: 0.54-2; stretch: 0.78.1-1; buster: 0.78.3-1; sid: 0.78.3-1
• 2936[18:56:14] <darokthar> Hi, i still have the flickering screen problems with an intel i915 graphics card and debian stretch. This seems to be a kernel bug. Has anyone had any settings which might work around this?
• 2937[18:56:18] <shtrb> add sslh to the party to hide the ssh tunnels to make it even more fun
• 2938[18:56:19] <nikitasius> i mean: all connections to any port on local ip..
• 2939[18:56:25] <jelly> ssh socks proxy adds a lot of latency, you might try it as a proof of concept but probably not more
• 2940[18:56:30] <leachim6> OpenSSH is magical
• 2941[18:56:40] <leachim6> look at the "VPN" section of the OpenSSH manpage
• 2942[18:57:03] <leachim6> I sat down one day and read the whole manpage and found out that 90% of the stuff I was using external tools for was just built in
• 2943[18:57:35] <shtrb> As if the people who built and maintaine ssh are into network and IT ..
• 2944[18:57:36] <nikitasius> about latency it's a critical too.
• 2945[18:57:38] *** Quits: Tom-_ (~tomg@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 2946[18:58:00] <leachim6> nikitasius: well in that case you'll want to keep the layers of your onion to a minimum
• 2947[18:58:01] <nikitasius> thanks for sshuttle tip. but i will look at iptable routes and other network stuff from system
• 2948[18:58:03] <jelly> with your amount of traffic I wouldn't seriously consider it
• 2949[18:58:07] <leachim6> VPN or ssh tunnel are your best bet
• 2950[18:58:33] <leachim6> nikitasius: what service do you have with OVH?
• 2951[18:58:41] <leachim6> nikitasius: just a VPS or a dedicated server?
• 2952[18:58:50] <jelly> just route the traffic to another machine and use iptables there to re-munge source IPs
• 2953[18:59:02] <leachim6> ^^^ jelly has the best/simplest solution
• 2954[18:59:15] <nikitasius> leachim6: dedicated with vrack (so i have my own local network)
• 2955[18:59:17] <nikitasius> :0
• 2956[18:59:19] <nikitasius> :)
• 2957[18:59:29] *** Quits: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 2958[18:59:34] <jelly> that's not a solution, that's just a general idea
• 2959[18:59:40] <leachim6> nikitasius: depending on how rubust you want this, consider running a vrouter (like VyOS or Pfsense) in a virtual machine on your host
• 2960[18:59:44] <greycat> I disagree that it's "best". "Best" would be an epiphany that sending bulk email is evil and you should stop.
• 2961[18:59:47] <leachim6> that's outside the scope of this channel
• 2962[18:59:51] *** Quits: finuit (~asxdfasdf@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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• 2964[18:59:58] <leachim6> greycat: someone just got reply-all'd :P
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• 2968[19:00:57] <nikitasius> leachim6: well, simple debian. iptables. etc. no special stuff like Pfsense
• 2969[19:01:15] <leachim6> yeah that's likely the best solution for what you want
• 2970[19:01:21] <nikitasius> gonna go to resto, have a nice 14 feb with your gf or pc :)
• 2971[19:01:30] <leachim6> nikitasius: likewise :)
• 2972[19:01:32] <jelly> #Netfilter will probably have a better idea
• 2973[19:01:43] <leachim6> iptables/NF is also magical
• 2974[19:01:48] <nikitasius> jelly: yep they told to google `arbitrary IP tunnel with corresponding (routing) rules`
• 2975[19:01:52] <nikitasius> i will check results later.
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• 2980[19:02:13] <leachim6> I fscking love Linux you guys...
• 2981[19:02:23] <leachim6> there's always a tool for that "weird" thing you thought you were the only use-case for
• 2982[19:02:51] *** Joins: dayten (~gnoid@replaced-ip)
• 2983[19:03:03] <jelly> you're not that weird
• 2984[19:03:10] *** Joins: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip)
• 2985[19:03:14] <combro2k> Linux is just fun :-P
• 2986[19:03:15] <annadane> everybody is weird
• 2987[19:03:19] <leachim6> that's the nicest thing anyone has ever said about me :')
• 2988[19:03:20] <nikitasius> linux is nice yes, and its free
• 2989[19:03:32] <nikitasius> soft if like sex, it's good when it's free :)
• 2990[19:03:33] *** Quits: Quatroking (~Quatrokin@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2991[19:03:36] <leachim6> I'm so lucky I get to Linux all day for money
• 2992[19:03:58] <greycat> annadane: for context, bulk email sender with an intentional X-Y problem intended to hide the fact that he was asking for help in sending bulk email.
• 2993[19:04:04] <combro2k> We have over 100 servers with Linux so yeah its fun
• 2994[19:04:30] <shtrb> just bare kernel without anything else ?
• 2995[19:04:35] *** Quits: darokthar (~darokthar@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2996[19:04:52] <leachim6> s,Linux,GNU/Linux,g
• 2997[19:05:01] <shtrb> That's the spirit
• 2998[19:05:01] <jelly> not sure if intentional, xy seldom is
• 2999[19:05:11] <JustASlacker> systemD/Linux
• 3000[19:05:17] <greycat> Well OK, he could also have been unintelligent.
• 3001[19:05:22] <leachim6> hey guy, I like systemD alright
• 3002[19:05:33] <combro2k> SystemD? My favorite :-P
• 3003[19:05:40] <shtrb> JustASlacker, the project that shall not be named
• 3004[19:05:43] <leachim6> is it ideal? no. but it's not the trasheap the hivemind mob-mentality BS thinks it is
• 3005[19:05:46] <JustASlacker> :D
• 3006[19:05:51] <leachim6> shtrb: we're talking about NameD now?
• 3007[19:05:52] *** Joins: jnavila (~jnavila@replaced-ip)
• 3008[19:06:06] <shtrb> ,v named
• 3009[19:06:08] <judd> No package named 'named' was found in amd64.
• 3010[19:06:11] <jelly> bind9
• 3011[19:06:15] <JustASlacker> is it actually SystemD ? or systemd? systemD ?
• 3012[19:06:17] <leachim6> ,v bind9-server
• 3013[19:06:18] *** Joins: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip)
• 3014[19:06:18] <judd> No package named 'bind9-server' was found in amd64.
• 3015[19:06:21] <leachim6> ,v bind9
• 3016[19:06:22] <greycat> bind9
• 3017[19:06:23] <judd> Package: bind9 on amd64 -- wheezy: 1:9.8.4.dfsg.P1-6+nmu2+deb7u10; wheezy-security: 1:9.8.4.dfsg.P1-6+nmu2+deb7u19; wheezy-backports: 1:9.9.5.dfsg-4~bpo70+1; jessie: 1:9.9.5.dfsg-9+deb8u14; jessie-updates: 1:9.9.5.dfsg-9+deb8u14; jessie-proposed-updates: 1:9.9.5.dfsg-9+deb8u15; jessie-security: 1:9.9.5.dfsg-9+deb8u15; stretch: 1:9.10.3.dfsg.P4-12.3+deb9u3; stretch-updates:
• 3018[19:06:24] <judd> 1:9.10.3.dfsg.P4-12.3+deb9u3; stretch-proposed-updates: 1:9.10.3.dfsg.P4-12.3+deb9u4; stretch-security: 1:9.10.3.dfsg.P4-12.3+deb9u4; stretch-backports: 1:9.11.2.P1-1~bpo9+1; buster: 1:9.11.2.P1-1; sid: 1:9.11.2.P1-1
• 3019[19:06:25] <leachim6> there we go
• 3020[19:06:28] *** Quits: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3021[19:06:37] <greycat> so many stretch-*
• 3022[19:06:47] <JustASlacker> uh
• 3023[19:06:50] <shtrb> leachim6, the project that shall not be named, is the 50ist project that shall not be used
• 3024[19:06:52] <leachim6> bind9 has so many patches it's silly
• 3025[19:06:57] <JustASlacker> I need to update our dns servers -__
• 3026[19:06:59] <JustASlacker> -_-
• 3027[19:07:04] <leachim6> JustASlacker: my heart goes out to you brother
• 3028[19:07:08] <combro2k> Fun job :-P
• 3029[19:07:09] <jelly> s-p-o might mean it's not just a security fix
• 3030[19:07:13] <JustASlacker> nah, its cools
• 3031[19:07:19] <leachim6> my CORP runs like 10million records on nameD
• 3032[19:07:19] *** Joins: HarveyPwca (~HarveyPwc@replaced-ip)
• 3033[19:07:22] <leachim6> that's not an exaggeration
• 3034[19:07:27] *** Joins: darokthar (~darokthar@replaced-ip)
• 3035[19:07:28] <shtrb> the project that shall not be named probably have a dns server implementation
• 3036[19:07:33] <JustASlacker> already at 9.9.11
• 3037[19:07:51] <leachim6> shtrb: VoldemortD ?
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• 3043[19:09:54] <greycat> Um... what happened to bind 9.10.x?
• 3044[19:09:55] *** Joins: deicide- (~deicide-@replaced-ip)
• 3045[19:09:57] <annadane> well it should anyway just because it's a de facto standard at this point and should fulfill common use cases
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• 3047[19:10:23] <shtrb> leachim6, The quest for ultimate power involve disposing all previous workers
• 3048[19:10:33] <annadane> let's not start this again
• 3049[19:10:44] *** Quits: herbmillerjr (~herbmille@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 3050[19:10:55] <shtrb> voldamart ban was lifted already :)
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• 3064[19:19:34] <leachim6> I can't hear you over this Debian/HURD install
• 3065[19:19:39] <leachim6> /s
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• 3068[19:20:08] <shtrb> ,v hurd
• 3069[19:20:09] <judd> No package named 'hurd' was found in amd64.
• 3070[19:20:12] <shtrb> :P
• 3071[19:20:27] <leachim6> replaced-url
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• 3085[19:23:15] <leachim6> oh, you were takin' the piss :P
• 3086[19:23:33] <darokthar> Is there a repo for stretch with a more recent kernel? Maybe this will get rid of the screen turning on and off.
• 3087[19:23:44] <towo`> backports
• 3088[19:23:54] <greycat> !stretch backports
• 3089[19:23:54] <dpkg> Some packages intended for Buster (Debian 10) but recompiled for use with "Stretch" (9.x) can be found in the "stretch-backports" repository. See replaced-url
• 3090[19:24:10] <leachim6> darokthar: many folks I know that run Debian as their main workstations regularly run Testing/Unstable
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• 3092[19:24:24] <leachim6> that's anecodtal though, don't see that as a recommendation
• 3093[19:24:38] <leachim6> s/anecodtal/anecdotal
• 3094[19:25:14] <darokthar> leachim6: I have done that in the past. But I ran into apt-get upgrades not working. Which basically is annoying if you just want to work.
• 3095[19:25:25] <leachim6> I hear you on that, 100^
• 3096[19:25:27] <leachim6> 100%
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• 3099[19:27:25] <greycat> darokthar: just to cover the basics here, did you install all relevant (including nonfree) firmware packages? No firmware error messages in dmesg?
• 3100[19:27:52] <darokthar> Yes I even enabled the intel microcodes.
• 3101[19:27:54] *** Joins: Achylles (~Achylles@replaced-ip)
• 3102[19:27:57] <darokthar> No success.
• 3103[19:28:05] *** Quits: jnavila (~jnavila@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 3104[19:28:12] <shtrb> darokthar, does it happen with plasma ?
• 3105[19:28:17] <jelly> darokthar: is it a laptop or a desktop?
• 3106[19:28:38] *** Quits: Firztspawn (~firztspaw@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 3107[19:28:40] <shtrb> *during plasma usage (kDE) , there was an old bug that had been fixed in xserver
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• 3109[19:29:07] <darokthar> This seems to be a bug in the kernel. It is probably not an xserver problem. It happens with any window manager.
• 3110[19:29:18] <darokthar> I checked with gnome.
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• 3114[19:30:35] <darokthar> It was confirmed in an older kernel for ubuntu. If i move the mouse from one screen to the other, the right screen blinks black below the curser. The left screen goes completely blank. It is with intel i915 drivers. I set the enable_rc6=0 option for grub. Still no success. Some people said it should work.
• 3115[19:30:47] <darokthar> jelly: it is a laptop.
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• 3117[19:31:11] <leachim6> ah, those i915 drivers
• 3118[19:31:22] <leachim6> I've had to get the newest mainline kernel to fix that before
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• 3120[19:31:54] <leachim6> you're having the screen flickering problem right?
• 3121[19:32:02] *** Quits: siiky (~siiky@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 3122[19:32:10] <leachim6> I have had that same problem with my Thinkpad T410
• 3123[19:32:13] <darokthar> Yes, I'm having it right now.
• 3124[19:32:23] *** Joins: siiky (~siiky@replaced-ip)
• 3125[19:32:25] <shtrb> did you try disabling the teardown option ?
• 3126[19:32:28] <leachim6> only fix I found was to run a 4.4+ kernel
• 3127[19:32:43] *** Joins: inaki (~inaki@replaced-ip)
• 3128[19:32:47] <leachim6> stretch is on 4.9+ tho....
• 3129[19:33:07] *** Joins: gildarts_ (gildarts@replaced-ip)
• 3130[19:33:32] <darokthar> leachim6: That is right. Stretch is using 4.9. But I'll give the 4.11 kernel from the backports a try.
• 3131[19:34:13] <darokthar> Afterwards I still can opt for the 4.4+ kernel.
• 3132[19:34:37] <leachim6> darokthar: try the newest kernel you can get, 4.11 is a good choice
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• 3135[19:36:40] <annadane> backports is 4.14 i believe
• 3136[19:36:42] <annadane> ,kernels
• 3137[19:36:43] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.15.0-rc8-686 (4.15~rc8-1~exp1); sid: 4.14.0-3-686-pae (4.14.13-1); buster: 4.14.0-3-686-pae (4.14.13-1); stretch-backports: 4.14.0-0.bpo.3-686-pae (4.14.13-1~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-5-686 (4.9.65-3+deb9u2); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.5-686-pae (4.9.65-3+deb9u2~bpo8+1); jessie: 3.16.0-5-686-pae (3.16.51-3+deb8u1); wheezy-backports:
• 3138[19:36:44] <judd> 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-5-686-pae (3.2.96-3)
• 3139[19:36:49] <annadane> indeed
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• 3157[19:41:38] <jelly> backports is almost always same as release+1
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• 3162[19:47:17] <darokthar> Ok, I'll have to reboot. Hopefully the error is gone afterwards. Otherwise it is time to get new hardware anyways :-)
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• 3165[19:47:32] <johnfg> hi folks
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• 3168[19:48:16] <johnfg> After the latest kernel upgrade on jessie, to 3.16.0-5-586 #1 Debian 3.16.51-3+deb8u1, openafs is no longer working.
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• 3175[19:49:22] <johnfg> There was some error about dkms, and after rebooting into the new kernel I tried to install openafs-modules-dkms, but get the message it's already built.
• 3176[19:49:24] <somiaj> johnfg: does it work if you downgrade to the previous kernel?
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• 3178[19:49:50] <somiaj> johnfg: oh this is a dkms issue, you can run dpkg-reconfigure openafs-modules-dkms, that should force it to rebuild
• 3179[19:50:01] *** Quits: iderik (~idk@replaced-ip) (Quit: iderik)
• 3180[19:50:03] <johnfg> somiaj: Good question. I can try. Before I do, is there a way to force. You just answered, thanks!
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• 3183[19:51:04] <johnfg> somiaj: Looks like that's doing exactly what I need. Thanks again.
• 3184[19:51:19] <johnfg> I tried apt-get reinstall, which, of course, doesn't exist.
• 3185[19:52:07] <somiaj> I think it is apt-get --reinstall install
• 3186[19:52:24] <somiaj> but in this case reconfiguring a dkms package will trigger the dkms build
• 3187[19:52:47] *** Quits: circ-user-a60eK (~circuser-@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
• 3188[19:52:52] <fre3k> so is it channel for debian sid?
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• 3191[19:53:46] <darokthar> leachim6: I think the upgrade to 4.14.0-0.bpo.3-amd64 did it.
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• 3193[19:54:11] <somiaj> fre3k: debian sid questions are best asked on #debian-next which is on another irc network, irc.oftc.net
• 3194[19:54:14] <darokthar> Much better.
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• 3197[19:55:35] <leachim6> darokthar: nice! yeah like I said I've also had trouble with the i915 driver on older kernels
• 3198[19:55:40] <leachim6> I always run the latest one I can find
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• 3203[19:57:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1603
• 3204[19:57:45] <darokthar> A lot of people do have those problems. After you get the right search terms on google. Any combination of "dual monitor black blank cursor mouse move" does not do the trick. You will have to start digging for kernel and i915.
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• 3211[20:01:15] <wigums> is there any plans of building debians kernels with retpoline? im on stretch with 4.14.13 and still vuln to spectre 1 & 2
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• 3214[20:02:57] <somiaj> this won't be the best place to ask that. Since you are using a backported kernel (which doens't get offical security support) you may want to ask the debian kernel mailing list if they have plans to include that option.
• 3215[20:03:08] <somiaj> and then you would have to wait for it to filter down from sid to get into backports.
• 3216[20:03:24] <somiaj> you could also look for bugs against the kernel if others have also made that request.
• 3217[20:03:28] <wigums> well 4.9 is vuln too
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• 3219[20:03:37] <wigums> which is why i backported
• 3220[20:03:45] <greycat> *facepalm*
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• 3223[20:04:56] <wigums> afacepalm all you want... i cant find a debian kernel thats been patched against spectre
• 3224[20:05:18] <BCMM> and so the logical conclusion is to find the kernel that will be patched last, and use that?
• 3225[20:05:19] *** Joins: saiqui (~luc@replaced-ip)
• 3226[20:05:25] <wigums> i dont know how debian does it but i always put security first
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• 3228[20:05:39] <BCMM> i mean, that doesn't actually mean anything
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• 3230[20:05:47] <wigums> BCMM, i dont know how that works in debian
• 3231[20:06:01] <greycat> Debian puts freedom first, stability second. Security comes in somewhere between 1.5 and 2.5.
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• 3233[20:06:05] <wigums> i figured newer kernel would be patched
• 3234[20:06:32] <wigums> ok so im right thatt there is no debian kernel patched against spectre?
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• 3238[20:06:57] <wigums> if there is could you cut the shit and point me to it?
• 3239[20:07:02] <greycat> I didn't even know that the CONCEPT of a kernel patch against spectre was even POSSIBLE.
• 3240[20:07:07] <somiaj> from my understanding there are no kernels that are patched against spectre 2, but there are also known attack vectors. Since there are variants on spectre, you may want to look up a specfic CVE for it.
• 3241[20:07:18] <wigums> greycat, google retpoline
• 3242[20:07:34] <greycat> I read part of the original white paper on retpoline. Didn't really understand.
• 3243[20:07:40] *** Quits: diniwed1 (~gavron@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
• 3244[20:07:55] <darokthar> greycat: you can mitigate against (CVE-2017-5753) i think. The other scenarios need updates from the hardware vendors.
• 3245[20:08:13] *** Joins: eeoh^ (~evh@replaced-ip)
• 3246[20:08:14] <wigums> it patches against spectre without taking the performance hit by patching variant 2
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• 3251[20:08:47] <greycat> replaced-url
• 3252[20:08:54] <wigums> most other distros are patched already. i just cant believe the debian devs dont care about security
• 3253[20:08:55] *** Joins: vivid (~ViViD@replaced-ip)
• 3254[20:08:57] <BCMM> wigums: a larger version number doesn't always mean a literally "newer" kernel, because old kernel branches still get maintained for a while
• 3255[20:09:16] <darokthar> They do not deliver. Microsoft has issued a security update against the attack. All other attacks are still open on my windows machine at work. I will need a bios update for a motherboard from 2012.
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• 3258[20:09:50] <wigums> BCMM, 4.14 is newer than 4.9. maintenance doesnt make 4.9 newer than 4.14
• 3259[20:10:01] <greycat> wigums: No. That's not how it works.
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• 3262[20:10:10] <greycat> 4.9 is a *series* of kernel releases
• 3263[20:10:22] <BCMM> wigums: 4.9.0 is older than 4.14.0, yes
• 3264[20:10:25] *** Joins: esro (~esro@replaced-ip)
• 3265[20:10:32] <wigums> sure it is.... if 4.9 came out last month and 4.14 came out this month which is newer?
• 3266[20:10:43] <BCMM> wigums: but 4.14.19 was released *yesterday*
• 3267[20:10:44] <greycat> The current stable kernel is 4.9.65-3+deb9u2 built Jan 4.
• 3268[20:10:52] <hypn0> 14 is greater than 9
• 3269[20:10:54] *** Quits: sz0 (uid110435@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
• 3270[20:11:01] <BCMM> (by kernel.org i mean. i don't think it's in debian yet)
• 3271[20:11:26] <wigums> right well my thinkng was by this time upstream has patched. i havent checked but thats my logic for going to 4.14
• 3272[20:11:33] <somiaj> it also appears that the patch is a gcc method, which is going to take longer to get into debian because of having to have a gcc with the option
• 3273[20:11:39] *** Quits: mandeep (~mandeep@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3274[20:11:43] <BCMM> wigums: your best bet is to stay on stable, which is supposed to be the most secure Debian distro, and wait for kernel fixes to be included there
• 3275[20:11:44] <somiaj> (retpoline)
• 3276[20:11:44] <greycat> wigums: and if a new 4.9.x release is put out by Debian this month then that 4.9.x release will be newer than your 4.14.y release
• 3277[20:12:04] *** Quits: Chrismeister (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 3278[20:12:05] <BCMM> wigums: sorry i meant to say 4.9.81 was released yesterda
• 3279[20:12:33] <BCMM> (copied and pasted the number of another longterm release that was also yesterday)
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• 3283[20:13:29] <Sansar> Hello, when I press the power button in debian it shows a few options in gui, like log out, shut down ,restart etc. Does shutdown equal to "sudo shutdown -h now"?
• 3284[20:13:36] <greycat> So anyway, replaced-url
• 3285[20:13:47] <BCMM> wigums: switch to a higher kernel version number for new features. switch to a *newer* kernel for bugfixes.
• 3286[20:13:48] <wigums> im a slacker of 20+ years but im new to debian which is a different beast than slackware so pardon my ignorance
• 3287[20:14:01] <somiaj> here is also something from the KML, "there is an ongoing discussion that leads me to believe retpolines don't fully mitigate the branch prediction issues..." so it could be this extra thing that needs a newer gcc isn't fully mitigating an attack that very percising timing and local access..
• 3288[20:14:21] <greycat> which is yet another reason not to RUSH things
• 3289[20:14:49] *** Joins: timahvo1 (~rogue@replaced-ip)
• 3290[20:14:52] <BCMM> wigums: also, i'm not specifically talking about debian. have a look at release dates on replaced-url
• 3291[20:14:59] *** Joins: johnfg (johnfg@replaced-ip)
• 3292[20:15:09] <BCMM> wigums: the upstream kernel team support old kernels for a long time
• 3293[20:15:14] <johnfg> The building of the module failed: replaced-url
• 3294[20:15:15] <somiaj> wigums: debian backports patches to the frozen stable version and the security team takes security issues serisoully. But this also takes time and they are cautious when intruding changes to kernels so they don't take out servers due to upgrades. I would expect a newer kernel comming with the point release, if not one comming from security sonner, depending on when all the testing and backporting is done.
• 3295[20:15:43] <wigums> yea slackware handles it WAY different
• 3296[20:15:43] <johnfg> somiaj: If you get a chance to look, or while, I'll go ahead and boot in the previous kernel and see if there's any problems.
• 3297[20:15:44] <somiaj> wigums: and as BCMM mentioned, debian does work with upstream with this, as the 4.9 is a stable branch supported by upstream as well.
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• 3300[20:16:46] <somiaj> johnfg: I would go check for bug reports against the dkms package you are using and see if others have had the same problem building the module. I don't see anything obvious but don't have time to look at it in more detail.
• 3301[20:16:56] <BCMM> wigums: also replaced-url
• 3302[20:17:10] <johnfg> somiaj: Ok, will reboot first, though.
• 3303[20:17:19] *** Quits: johnfg (johnfg@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3304[20:18:23] <greycat> Right, the gcc 7.3 or 8.0 thing.
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• 3307[20:18:52] <greycat> Which makes it impossible to build that kernel with that feature on stable.
• 3308[20:18:56] <Brumbazz> Hi. I hope it's ok I ask a network related question. I'm trying to make ipv6 multicast traffic behave as multicast traffic om my netgear switch. When I try to send a packet to FF05::2, it gets broadcasted to all hosts connected to the switch. What I wan't is that the trafic sent to FF05::2 is only delivered to thouse hosts who have joined the multicast group. I've enabled MLD on my switch, but it doesn't
• 3309[20:19:02] <Brumbazz> seem to work - all ipv6 multicast traffic gets broadcasted.. Does any one of you have experience with that ? Thanks in advance :)
• 3310[20:19:43] <annadane> i'll just mention that spectre (as you already know) is harder to execute than meltdown
• 3311[20:19:54] *** Joins: Vizva (~Vizva@replaced-ip)
• 3312[20:20:01] <annadane> harder to patch, but also more difficult to exploit
• 3313[20:20:13] <BCMM> Brumbazz: afaik it's fine to ask networking questions here, but if it gets complicated enough ##networking might be more help
• 3314[20:20:15] <jelly> Brumbazz: if you haven't asked in ##networking yet, do that, too
• 3315[20:20:16] <Dagger> s/wan't/want/
• 3316[20:20:40] <Brumbazz> oh thanks, I didn't know ##networking existed, thanks! :)
• 3317[20:20:51] <Dagger> unfortunately about all I know about this is that MLD snooping ought to be the thing you need
• 3318[20:20:58] <jelly> this channel focuses on debian-specific issues and behaviour of switches is not (unless they're running Debian)
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• 3321[20:21:25] <wigums> noones gonna crack my boxes anyway. they simply CANT. my interest is only keeping up to date and learning how they are patching
• 3322[20:21:42] <Brumbazz> Dagger: I'm glad to hear that :>
• 3323[20:21:50] <darokthar> wigums: never say that.
• 3324[20:21:57] <wigums> lol
• 3325[20:22:03] <wigums> CANT
• 3326[20:22:06] <wigums> hehe
• 3327[20:22:14] <Brumbazz> Dagger: Want* thanks :>
• 3328[20:22:16] <annadane> missed an apostrophe.
• 3329[20:22:35] <Dagger> s/CANT/CAN'T/ c'mon guys >.>
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• 3331[20:22:49] <darokthar> Someone will see this as a challenge and crack your boxes.
• 3332[20:22:52] <Dagger> although probably "CAN" is closer to the truth
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• 3335[20:24:19] <wigums> thanks for the info. goin back to what i was doin
• 3336[20:24:59] <wigums> and btw if aliens came to earth theyd run slackware
• 3337[20:25:04] <wigums> lol
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• 3341[20:26:05] <darokthar> if aliens came to earth they would be vivisected.
• 3342[20:26:31] <JustASlacker> if aliens came to earth, you could hack them with an apple computer
• 3343[20:26:36] <JustASlacker> I saw it on the telly
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• 3348[20:27:29] <darokthar> In real life, the apple computer will follow gravity to the ground and break. If you want to get sh*t done use more robust hardware.
• 3349[20:28:18] <kion> I have a server and all of the sudden it stops working, and when I try to ssh into it to see what is going on, I get "ssh_exchange_identification: read: Connection reset by peer"
• 3350[20:28:19] <wigums> ok so here it is protection from Spectre1 starts from 4.14.18/4.15.2 if you get sources from kernel.org.
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• 3352[20:28:37] <kion> until I restart it, it takes my ssh connection again,
• 3353[20:28:40] <kion> any ideas?
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• 3356[20:29:44] <darokthar> kion: some firewall issue? Running a cron job with wrong rules?
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• 3359[20:30:52] <kion> darokthar, I will re check crontab, because I don't think I have any cron jobs modifying my firewall
• 3360[20:30:59] <jelly> kion: look at the physical console for weirdness. Look at logs from the time frame when things started misbehaving.
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• 3363[20:31:45] <jelly> (the console doesn't have to be physical if you have IPMI or some other remote management)
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• 3385[20:45:06] <kion> jelly That is what i will do, so far haven't found anything wierd...
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• 3387[20:45:32] <kion> jelly, no phisical consloe, it's an amazon server
• 3388[20:45:45] <jelly> sshd disconnection you immediately might point to some sort of resource contention (eg. out of RAM)
• 3389[20:46:14] <jelly> surely amazon servers can provide access to console?
• 3390[20:46:16] *** Quits: jimm (~jim@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 3391[20:46:28] <jelly> VMs can still have an emulated serial or VGA
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• 3394[20:46:57] <JustASlacker> dont they have spice?
• 3395[20:46:58] <jelly> and if they don't, get a better provider?
• 3396[20:47:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1597
• 3397[20:47:11] <JustASlacker> spice or vnc
• 3398[20:47:55] *** Quits: Slashman (~Slash@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
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• 3402[20:51:44] <tobiasBora> Hello,
• 3403[20:51:49] <JustASlacker> lies!
• 3404[20:52:07] <tobiasBora> I don't want to lie...
• 3405[20:52:41] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3406[20:53:31] <darokthar> which firewall shall i use for a webserver? I'm using iptables should i switch to nftables?
• 3407[20:53:42] <greycat> why would you use any?
• 3408[20:54:07] <JustASlacker> since you are using the newest debian, firewalld
• 3409[20:54:21] <greycat> is there a specific *reason* you want to add firewalling to your web server?
• 3410[20:54:30] <tobiasBora> I'd like to know, what is the best tool to encrypt a folder on linux ? I used before truecrypt, but after the strong story of truecrypt (backdoor...), I kept using an equivalent tcplay. Now, I'd like to know if there are better tools?
• 3411[20:54:36] <greycat> want to block people from a specific country or something?
• 3412[20:54:38] *** Quits: TrentP (~GVUEW97sM@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ZNC - ##replaced-url
• 3413[20:54:57] *** Quits: gagrio (~gagrio@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 3414[20:55:38] <JustASlacker> tobiasBora: replaced-url
• 3415[20:55:57] <JustASlacker> tobiasBora: veracrypt is the closes to truecrypt
• 3416[20:56:18] <JustASlacker> replaced-url
• 3417[20:56:23] <darokthar> Just the coming DSGVO. I'm not sure if EU bueaucrats think that firewalls think this is state of the art. And i don't want to pay a fine to find outl.
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• 3420[20:56:29] <tobiasBora> what is the difference with tcplay?
• 3421[20:56:53] <JustASlacker> I dont now tcplay
• 3422[20:56:56] <JustASlacker> know
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• 3425[20:57:48] <alkisg> tobiasBora: ecryptfs is widely supported
• 3426[20:58:08] *** jimmm is now known as jim
• 3427[20:58:15] <tobiasBora> alkisg: ecryptfs is not only for /home/<me>?
• 3428[20:58:37] <alkisg> tobiasBora: of course not; I'm using it just for a /home/alkisg/Private subfolder
• 3429[20:58:42] *** Joins: gpunk (~gpunk@replaced-ip)
• 3430[20:59:10] <greycat> directory. subdirectory.
• 3431[20:59:21] <alkisg> Why? Folder isn't a nice word? :)
• 3432[20:59:26] <greycat> !folder
• 3433[20:59:26] <dpkg> folder is a directory damn it! near My Computer and Network Neighborhood... or the things you put in a filing cabinet. IMAP protocol's mailboxes.
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• 3436[20:59:57] <alkisg> Meh, for non-native english speakers, it's whatever you tell us it is :)
• 3437[21:00:05] *** Joins: Ramakandra (~OS-33708@replaced-ip)
• 3438[21:00:08] <greycat> find . -type d
• 3439[21:00:11] <greycat> directory not folder
• 3440[21:00:15] <greycat> ls -l | grep ^d
• 3441[21:00:17] <greycat> directory
• 3442[21:00:18] *** Quits: bbdgl (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 3443[21:00:18] *** bbdgl1 is now known as bbdgl
• 3444[21:00:20] <tobiasBora> greycat: because f would be for files
• 3445[21:00:40] <tobiasBora> alkisg: JustASlacker ok thank you!
• 3446[21:00:41] *** Joins: krytarik (~krytarik@replaced-ip)
• 3447[21:01:12] <alkisg> greycat: grep -ri folder /usr/share/doc :)
• 3448[21:01:43] *** Joins: soulz (~soulz@replaced-ip)
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• 3450[21:02:18] *** Joins: kion (~kion@replaced-ip)
• 3451[21:02:32] <greycat> wooledg:~$ grep -ri folder /usr/share/doc | wc
• 3452[21:02:32] <greycat> 610 18711 387954
• 3453[21:02:43] <greycat> wooledg:~$ grep -ri directory /usr/share/doc | wc
• 3454[21:02:43] <greycat> 2139 25802 342542
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• 3457[21:03:24] <alkisg> Yup, I've been hearing both words for ages now... some more in some context, some less...
• 3458[21:04:05] <greycat> Windows users call them "folders" because Microsoft calls them "folders" because they are displayed with an icon that looks like a file-folder on Microsoft's desktop.
• 3459[21:04:12] <greycat> Unix predates desktops.
• 3460[21:04:19] *** Joins: brokencycle (~brokencyc@replaced-ip)
• 3461[21:04:22] <alkisg> I'm not a native english speaker, but "directory" comes from telephones, doesn't it?
• 3462[21:04:28] <greycat> Yes.
• 3463[21:04:41] *** Joins: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip)
• 3464[21:04:44] <zleap> I think directory could come from the command line , where as on the desktop we use folders meaning the same thing
• 3465[21:04:47] *** Joins: polaris (~polaris_@replaced-ip)
• 3466[21:04:50] <greycat> A directory of files works like a phone directory. You have a name and you look up the inode number.
• 3467[21:04:51] <zleap> on the desktop you get a picture of a folder
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• 3469[21:05:00] <alkisg> So I don't know which one is the best fit for the actual folder/directory meaning; it's up to you english people to tell us. From what I hear, both words are OK.
• 3470[21:05:17] <greycat> Only Microsoft people think "folder" is acceptable.
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• 3472[21:05:34] <alkisg> I don't think microsoft puts documents in /usr/share/doc...
• 3473[21:05:57] <JustASlacker> they can if they install linux subsytem
• 3474[21:06:00] <greycat> Did you not see the part where there were over 3 times as many lines containing "directory"?
• 3475[21:06:01] *** Quits: polaris (~polaris_@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3476[21:06:03] <zleap> alkisg: if you do ls -l then a directory is flagged with d in the permissions block at the start of the listing
• 3477[21:06:13] <zleap> e.g drwxr-xr-x 4 psutton psutton 4096 Jan 11 18:52 Videos
• 3478[21:06:19] <alkisg> Guys, I understand that directory is the traditional word for linux
• 3479[21:06:32] <alkisg> But I also think it's ok if someone calls it a folder
• 3480[21:06:33] *** Joins: polaris (~polaris_@replaced-ip)
• 3481[21:06:46] <greycat> That is precisely the attitude I'm trying to battle.
• 3482[21:07:01] <qman__> Only windows has folders, everything else uses directories, including MS-DOS
• 3483[21:07:10] <zleap> well i think pwd, cd, pretty much dictate directory
• 3484[21:07:12] <alkisg> I used to be more careful when i migrated to linux 10 years ago, not to use the "folder" word, but since I saw that everyone was using it without any issue, I stopped "being careful" about it
• 3485[21:07:19] *** Joins: eeoh^ (eeoh@replaced-ip)
• 3486[21:08:00] <valerius> alkisg folder is a GUI term, whereas directory is a filesystem term
• 3487[21:08:31] <valerius> so folder is a graphical representation for directory
• 3488[21:08:39] <alkisg> So I would use ecryptfs on a directory from a terminal, or on a folder from a gui :)
• 3489[21:08:47] <alkisg> OK
• 3490[21:09:04] <somiaj> most likely due to the fact they wanted to make an icon for a directory, and had to come up with something elese. (I don't know what a good directory icon would look like)
• 3491[21:09:13] <JustASlacker> big book
• 3492[21:09:26] <somiaj> so they had to create a new word to have an icon everyone would recongize.
• 3493[21:09:33] <greycat> It would just be confusing to end users if they didn't copy the "sheet of paper" and "file-folder" icons.
• 3494[21:09:37] <somiaj> well not create a new word, but give another word a name.
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• 3502[21:11:05] <BluesKaj> directory is an organizational system and it predates telephone books by 2000yrs , the Romans used directories of the populace for census taking
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• 3504[21:11:47] <greycat> The specific reference to directories in the Unix context, though, is that you have a file's "name" and you can look that up to get the inode number ("address").
• 3505[21:12:20] <greycat> In the earliest file systems, a directory was *literally* just a sequential listing of name/inode pairs.
• 3506[21:12:46] <JustASlacker> well
• 3507[21:12:50] <JustASlacker> I hate directories now
• 3508[21:12:56] <greycat> On some systems, you could even cat the contents of a directory and see it, but newer systems all give an error if you try.
• 3509[21:12:58] <alkisg> Haha
• 3510[21:13:36] <brw> Folders == GUI term. Directory = Universal term.
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• 3512[21:15:23] <Eryn_1983_FL> does debian or systemd determine which network itnisbon before mounting drives? see i want to connect cifs only at home. i think i may have to make a sxript to do this
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• 3515[21:15:48] <Eryn_1983_FL> is it something i can write for ifup in /etc/networking??
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• 3523[21:19:55] <Guest61608> tmp vs var/tmp?
• 3524[21:20:47] *** Joins: flux242 (~chatzilla@replaced-ip)
• 3525[21:20:54] <tomcres> . /var/tmp persists across reboots; /tmp doesn't
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• 3527[21:22:25] <Guest61608> oh
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• 3529[21:22:39] <Guest61608> good thing i chose var/tmp
• 3530[21:22:45] <Guest61608> lol
• 3531[21:22:53] <tobiasBora> Is there any reason not to put veracrypt in debian, while tcplay is in debian
• 3532[21:22:58] <tomcres> yes, /var/tmp uses your disk and /tmp is RAM
• 3533[21:23:17] <Guest61608> tmp is ram?
• 3534[21:23:25] *** Quits: eeoh^ (eeoh@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 3535[21:23:31] <greycat> Can be. Or can be disk.
• 3536[21:23:33] <tomcres> by default, yes
• 3537[21:23:56] <Guest61608> how is it ram
• 3538[21:24:04] <greycat> Check the output of "mount".
• 3539[21:24:05] <Guest61608> its just a dir
• 3540[21:24:27] <tomcres> the miracle of unix. everything is a file or a directory :-)
• 3541[21:24:27] <Guest61608> its just a duur
• 3542[21:24:35] <Guest61608> ya i know
• 3543[21:24:37] <Guest61608> but
• 3544[21:24:45] <greycat> If it's not mounted as a separate file system, then it is just a subdirectory of the root file system.
• 3545[21:25:05] <greycat> Unless it's a symlink.
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• 3571[21:41:58] <teatime> Guest61608: it's a ram-based filesystem, tmpfs, mounted on /tmp
• 3572[21:42:12] <teatime> and a bunch of other places, that are expected to be small, but benefit from very fast access
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• 3575[21:43:57] <teatime> it doesn't persist across reboots, either. but that's standard behavior for /tmp. if you need that you'd use /var/tmp
• 3576[21:44:24] <teatime> lol, whoops, I see that's where the conversation started.
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• 3578[21:44:49] *** Joins: damoncasale (~kvirc@replaced-ip)
• 3579[21:45:04] <damoncasale> Afternoon. Running into a weird error and I can't find much info about it online.
• 3580[21:45:15] <damoncasale> W: Conflicting distribution: replaced-url
• 3581[21:45:25] <damoncasale> And:
• 3582[21:45:26] <damoncasale> W: Failed to fetch replaced-url
• 3583[21:45:57] *** Joins: Ozzyboshi (~quassel@replaced-ip)
• 3584[21:46:01] <damoncasale> I'm working on a client's server and don't know much about Debian. (I'm an Ubuntu guy, normally.)
• 3585[21:46:25] <Guest61608> lol
• 3586[21:46:31] <Guest61608> were all ubuntu guys
• 3587[21:46:32] <damoncasale> I'm assuming there are conflicting and/or outdated packages? Not sure how to remove/resolve those.
• 3588[21:47:07] <annadane> yeah, don't add PPAs to debian
• 3589[21:47:16] <Guest61608> lol
• 3590[21:47:23] <Guest61608> def dont do that
• 3591[21:47:24] <damoncasale> Someone else did, before I got here.
• 3592[21:47:27] <damoncasale> How do I remove those?
• 3593[21:47:28] <Guest61608> omfg
• 3594[21:48:45] <bites> it doesn't matter if it's a ppa if the packages are built for your distro. but one says stable and the other says jessie, which doesn't bode well.
• 3595[21:49:59] <damoncasale> Ok, how do I remove that?
• 3596[21:50:00] <teatime> Guest61608: you cannot use that ubuntu certbot ppa on debian and don't want or need to, you can just install certbot from the official repos
• 3597[21:50:02] <damoncasale> The Jessie one.
• 3598[21:50:24] <bites> the first one is meant to be a normal debian repo? try deb.debian.org/debian
• 3599[21:51:05] <teatime> damoncasale: they're configured in /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*
• 3600[21:51:05] *** Quits: ilCyx86_64 (~ilCyx86_6@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 3601[21:51:12] <damoncasale> k
• 3602[21:51:15] <damoncasale> Thanks.
• 3603[21:51:24] <teatime> damoncasale: aptitude search "~o" <-- useful for finding the packages to remove
• 3604[21:51:32] <teatime> that shows packages unavailable from configured repos
• 3605[21:52:04] <teatime> dpkg: tell damoncasale about dontbreakdebian
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• 3612[21:53:49] <bites> he didn't install anything from there.
• 3613[21:54:03] <darokthar> teatime: It wasn't him. He told you it was someone else. It's the same thing you tell some not IT guy at your workplace.
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• 3616[21:54:17] <bites> that ubuntu ppa doesn't have a jessie subdirectory.
• 3617[21:54:28] <darokthar> Maybe it had once...
• 3618[21:54:49] <teatime> darokthar: who told me what now?
• 3619[21:55:43] <teatime> sorry I got the two confused, they're both colored blue by my nickcolor.pl :)
• 3620[21:55:51] *** Parts: qeyoa (~ais@replaced-ip) ()
• 3621[21:56:31] <darokthar> teatime: <damoncasale> Someone else did, before I got here.
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• 3623[21:57:07] *** Joins: clemens3 (~clemens@replaced-ip)
• 3624[21:57:52] <teatime> ok, I was just giving him a reference for additional information, perhaps useful to him, or for him to forward on to whatever dumbass colleague had done that
• 3625[21:57:56] <bites> damoncasale: is that a jessie or stretch machine?
• 3626[21:57:58] <jhutchins> teatime: Persistence of /tmp accross reboots is not standardized among distributions. Whether it uses disk or ram is also configurable.
• 3627[21:58:07] <teatime> jhutchins: it's in POSIX
• 3628[21:58:09] <damoncasale> bites: Not sure.
• 3629[21:58:10] *** Joins: OS-35785 (~OS-35785@replaced-ip)
• 3630[21:58:19] <teatime> to not depend on /tmp to persist... very long
• 3631[21:58:26] <bites> damoncasale: use codenames instead of stable/oldstable in your sources.
• 3632[21:58:27] *** Parts: OS-35785 (~OS-35785@replaced-ip) ()
• 3633[21:58:39] <teatime> or maybe it's FHS
• 3634[21:58:51] <bites> damoncasale: look at your sources and cat /etc/debian_version
• 3635[21:59:07] *** Quits: neeh^ (neeh@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 3636[21:59:20] <damoncasale> I managed to fix it enough to get Node 8.x installed. Not gonna mess with it any more since they're not paying me for this shit. ;)
• 3637[22:01:15] <bites> don't ruin someone elses day. ^^
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• 3641[22:02:01] <teatime> jhutchins: POSIX on /tmp : "A directory made available for applications that need a place to create temporary files. Applications shall be allowed to create files in this directory, but shall not assume that such files are preserved between invocations of the application."
• 3642[22:02:34] <teatime> really that's legacy though and one should honor $TMPDIR
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• 3644[22:04:45] <kion> what does this command running in my cron jobs do? : "root command -v debian-sa1 > /dev/null && debian-sa1 1 1"
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• 3647[22:05:26] <greycat> "man debian-sa1" maybe?
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• 3649[22:05:43] <teatime> or apt-file search debian-sa1
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• 3651[22:06:04] <greycat> If you don't *have* that command, then it does literally nothing.
• 3652[22:06:13] <greycat> that's what the command -v layer is for
• 3653[22:07:26] <teatime> I am not familiar with the 'root' and 'command' commands here
• 3654[22:07:27] <kion> greycat, "no man entry for debian-sa1"
• 3655[22:07:45] <greycat> then you'll have to find it and read it, if it's readable
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• 3657[22:08:33] <teatime> it's from the package sysstat, sa1 is the cron script that supports the sar command
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• 3776[23:25:07] <Eryn_1983_FL> hey peeps
• 3777[23:25:18] <Eryn_1983_FL> so i got some files i just added my userid to admins group and booted
• 3778[23:25:20] <Eryn_1983_FL> -rwx------ 1 erin admins 3150 May 13 2016  backup.day.sh
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• 3781[23:27:12] <Guest61608> there is a Z in my psaux
• 3782[23:27:17] <Guest61608> is that zombie
• 3783[23:30:09] <Eryn_1983_FL> more then likely guest
• 3784[23:30:14] <Eryn_1983_FL> nm my ?
• 3785[23:30:19] <hypn0> yep
• 3786[23:30:20] <Guest61608> how to kill it
• 3787[23:30:22] <Guest61608> lol
• 3788[23:30:24] <tw> Reboot
• 3789[23:30:29] <Guest61608> omg
• 3790[23:30:38] <Guest61608> its a real zombie?
• 3791[23:30:47] *** Quits: LucaTM (~LucaTM@replaced-ip) (Quit: To infinity and beyond...)
• 3792[23:31:27] <tw> zombie is usually killed during uninterruptable sleep, so it's stuck until the sleep returns, possibly forever.
• 3793[23:32:36] <Guest61608> no way to kill it lol?
• 3794[23:32:42] <Guest61608> -9?
• 3795[23:32:57] <hypn0> In order to kill these processes, you need to find the parent process first. ?
• 3796[23:33:56] <tw> Depends on why it's hung up, which could be for any number of reasons.
• 3797[23:34:05] <tw> I'd either ignore it or reboot.
• 3798[23:34:07] <tw> Most likely ignore.
• 3799[23:34:56] <Guest61608> lol
• 3800[23:35:00] <Guest61608> its just a container
• 3801[23:35:03] <Guest61608> so
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• 3804[23:35:22] <Guest61608> also i kind of created it messing around
• 3805[23:35:29] <Guest61608> so it shouldnt happen
• 3806[23:35:39] <Guest61608> but its kind of sad that u cant just kill those
• 3807[23:35:54] <kanliot> can i get an install image suitable for installing debian 9 with lxde?
• 3808[23:36:08] *** Quits: jubo2 (~juboxi@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 3809[23:36:16] <kanliot> or how do i
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• 3813[23:38:19] <hypn0> replaced-url
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• 3816[23:40:05] <kanliot> I only see normal version, i wouldn't expect the main debian release to have an lxde livecd environment or anyone use that?
• 3817[23:42:27] <hypn0> Live install images?
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• 3821[23:43:22] <hypn0> can't you install with hybrid images :-/
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• 3825[23:45:06] <kanliot> actually i found it on the ftp replaced-url
• 3826[23:45:08] <kanliot> bye
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