People who Joins, Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian
an IRC-Channel at freenode
(freenode IRC service closed
2021-06-01)
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4[00:02:24] <bites> try mounting it explicitly with -t ubifs
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7[00:04:36] <BanHammor> that's how i got the error
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8[00:04:44] <dutchfish> bites, that wont work if there isnt a
volume yet or isnt attached
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10[00:05:32] <dutchfish> BanHammor,
replaced-url
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16[00:06:34] <dutchfish> BanHammor, if this is a blank its more
or less like ubiformat->ubiattach->make
vol-?updatevol->mount
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17[00:06:42] <e9uj> oops i accidentally removed
/etc/apt/sources.list
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18[00:06:52] <e9uj> would someone have a copy/paste of it, for
debian 8.4?
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19[00:07:00] <dutchfish> e9uj, Debian/stable?
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20[00:07:03] <e9uj> yes
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23[00:07:15] <BanHammor> 8 is oldstable
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24[00:07:21] <e9uj> i had 4 lines in it iirc
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25[00:07:28] <e9uj> the default values after install
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28[00:08:02] <dutchfish> !sources.list
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29[00:08:02] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for
"Stretch" has three lines: "deb
replaced-url
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30[00:08:20] <e9uj> dutchfish: would you have the same for
jessie? 8.4
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31[00:08:39] <dutchfish> e9uj, simualr but s/stertch/jessie
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32[00:08:52] <dutchfish> e9uj, simular but s/stretch/jessie*
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33[00:08:55] <BanHammor>
replaced-url
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34[00:09:00] <dutchfish> sorry for typos
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35[00:10:01] <BanHammor> okay, something is REALLY wrong,
because mtd_erase and the like go absolutely bananas after 2GB
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37[00:10:23] <e9uj> dutchfish: is there correct
replaced-url
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38[00:10:32] <BanHammor> so i figure i need to debug the driver
next, and that's quite a drag.
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41[00:11:29] <dutchfish> e9uj, that looks ok, unless you need
deb-src lines too, ask the bot as stated for that
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43[00:11:53] <dutchfish> BanHammor, loks like it
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44[00:11:57] <dutchfish> looks*
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45[00:12:20] <dutchfish> BanHammor, Debian/stable?
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47[00:12:47] <dutchfish> ,kernel versions
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48[00:12:48] <judd> (kernel [--release <squeeze>]) --
Outputs the kernel versions in the archive, optionally restricted to
one release. Note that semi-major releases like etchnhalf are
treated as separate releases.
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50[00:12:59] <e9uj> dutchfish: what is deb-src?
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51[00:13:02] <BanHammor> mostly, but the kernel is custom
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52[00:13:13] <e9uj> thanks BanHammor for the gen
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54[00:13:25] <dutchfish> BanHammor, ah ok, try the one from bpo
first, if possible
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55[00:13:53] <BanHammor> it's a board-specific extremely
hacked together kernel -_-
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56[00:14:01] <dutchfish> !deb-src
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57[00:14:01] <dpkg> You can have apt download the <source
package> from which a <binary package> was compiled using a
"deb-src" line in your <sources.list>. A line like
"deb-src
replaced-url
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58[00:14:41] <dutchfish> BanHammor, ouch
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59[00:14:44] <uxfi> si!!!!
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60[00:14:45] <uxfi> tolecnal;
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61[00:14:51] <uxfi> oops
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62[00:14:53] <uxfi> wrong window
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63[00:14:54] <e9uj> dutchfish: oh ok it's a package which
should eventually be manually compiled, ie sources?
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64[00:14:59] <e9uj> ie source code?
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65[00:15:19] <BanHammor> yeah, it's for manually compiling
or looking at sources of a package
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66[00:15:24] <e9uj> great
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67[00:15:25] <dutchfish> e9uj, yes, the deb-src lines are for
getting the sources of packages (sometimes needed)
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68[00:15:33] <e9uj> thans guys!
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69[00:15:36] <bites> debgen creates somewhat bad sources.
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71[00:15:38] <e9uj> problem solved, going to bed :)
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72[00:15:42] <dutchfish> e9uj, yw
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73[00:15:55] <e9uj> thanks! have a good day/night
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76[00:16:14] <bites> using stable instead of the codename like
debgen produces might not be the best idea.
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79[00:16:51] <BanHammor> i'm also a bit effed by them
including backports by default
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81[00:17:14] <pfred1> BanHammor comment them out
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82[00:17:41] <BanHammor> i'm not the one who needed help
with sources.list
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86[00:18:27] <pfred1> I never got hold to work
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87[00:19:14] <pfred1> I tell apt to hold packages and it goes
and installs them anyways
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88[00:19:35] <bites> how do you put it on hold?
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89[00:19:45] <pfred1> apt-mark hold
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90[00:19:55] <pfred1> how do you hold a package?
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92[00:21:36] <bites> how do you do the update? apt or something
like aptitude or synaptic?
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94[00:21:51] <pfred1> aptitude or apt-get
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95[00:22:01] <bites> aptitude uses a different database
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96[00:22:19] <pfred1> hmm that could be why my holds get
ignored I wonder who thought two databases was a good idea?
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97[00:22:22] <bites> so you might have to aptitude hold as
well.
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99[00:23:59] <pfred1> one system one set of packages
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100[00:24:37] <pfred1> a case where one plus one does not equal
two
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102[00:26:35] <n4dir> !hold
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103[00:26:35] <dpkg> hold is a status flag that tells the
package manager to not automatically upgrade a package. To hold a
package 'echo $package hold|dpkg --set-selections' or
'aptitude hold $package'. Note that "aptitude
hold" is ignored by other package managers (i.e. Update
Manager, synaptic, apt-get) and aptitude won't necessarily use
holds set with dpkg; see Debian bug #137771 (fixed in stretch). See
also <hold list>, <unhold>.
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104[00:26:39] <n4dir> usually worked for me
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106[00:27:03] <n4dir> but then: i didn't use aptitude. duh
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107[00:27:05] <dutchfish> pfred1, why would you hold back a
package in stable?? also see:
replaced-url
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108[00:27:05] <pfred1> that's funny because I'm on
Stretch
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109[00:27:31] <pfred1> dutchfish maybe because I don't want
it installed?
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112[00:28:07] <dutchfish> pfred1, that might bite you. If
dependecies arent complete.
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113[00:28:19] <pfred1> dutchfish that's for me to worry
about
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115[00:28:54] <dutchfish> pfred1, fair enough. But hard to help
you with that.
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116[00:29:00] <pfred1> dutchfish you might get bit even if you
dot all of your i's and cross all of your t's too
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117[00:29:12] <pfred1> remember the warranty
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118[00:30:09] <BanHammor> seriously though, what is your actual
use case for hold?
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119[00:30:16] <pfred1> dutchfish This program is distributed in
the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without
even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A
PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
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121[00:30:48] <dutchfish> pfred1, sorry, what is your question?
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122[00:30:52] <tobiasBora> Hello,
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123[00:31:09] <pfred1> BanHammor installing meta packages and
not pulling in al lthe crap that they do
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124[00:31:09] <bites> hoi
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126[00:31:47] <pfred1> dutchfish why are you breathing my air?
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127[00:31:49] <n4dir> pfred1: and --no-install-recommends
doesn't do it?
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128[00:31:55] <tobiasBora> I don't know why, but I just
replaced an ubuntu with a Debian 9 on a friend computer, and now
when it reboots it can't reach any OS, it just boots directly
to the Bios setup "EZ mode":
replaced-url
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129[00:32:08] <pfred1> n4dir it may I've never tried it
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131[00:32:21] <tobiasBora> to install Debian I needed to disable
secure boot
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132[00:32:35] <n4dir> you can also set it, either in
/etc/apt/preferences or apt.conf (or such). But i don't know
how exactly
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133[00:32:43] <tobiasBora> but now it does not matter if I
enable/disable it, I always come back to the Bios mode.
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134[00:33:16] <pfred1> Debian doesn't come with a signed
kernel?
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135[00:33:48] <BanHammor> i think you can install a signed shim
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137[00:34:03] <pfred1> BanHammor I'd be surprised if that
was not the case
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138[00:34:23] <pfred1> but i don't believe in UEFI so I
never use the stuff
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139[00:34:27] <tobiasBora> pfred1: it looks like it's not
the case...
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142[00:35:13] <tobiasBora> BanHammor: where do you find the
images?
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143[00:35:25] <BanHammor> okay, so what happens if you press
"debian" or "windows" in your F8 menu?
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144[00:35:50] <pfred1> BanHammor what is this
"windows" that you speak of?
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146[00:36:13] * cent4urus boa noite povo :)
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147[00:36:21] <tobiasBora> BanHammor: it blink and then we come
back to main menu
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148[00:36:32] <BanHammor> that is, the EZ menu.
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149[00:36:46] <tobiasBora> pfred1: he refers to the picture I
showed on the link I guess
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150[00:36:51] <tobiasBora> blinks*
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151[00:37:26] <tobiasBora> BanHammor: yes, the EZ main display,
first picture
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152[00:37:31] <koollman> I do not think debian has a signed
kernel
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154[00:37:58] <pfred1> koollman but you can sign it yourself
can't you?
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155[00:38:03] <koollman>
replaced-url
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157[00:38:28] <koollman> although trying to follow the bug is
funny
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158[00:39:04] <pfred1> so glad i use legacy boot
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159[00:39:39] <koollman> some day I will have a serious look at
uefi... but so long as legacy work ... yeah
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160[00:39:48] <dutchfish> the status of signing is pretty well
documented, there are signed kernels, but the bootloaders currently
can't do secure boot. see:
replaced-url
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161[00:40:02] <pfred1> koollman I thought about it with this
system then I said nah I got enough fish to fry
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162[00:40:46] <dutchfish> and yes you can boot a signed kernel
from EFI
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163[00:40:55] <dutchfish> pfred1, go fishing ;)
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164[00:40:57] <koollman> pfred1: it's so low priority on my
'maybe I should' todo list, that I think we will have a
major change in boot systems before I try :)
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165[00:41:29] <pfred1> koollman for me UEFI was a major change
one I'm happy to avoid
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168[00:42:26] <BanHammor> tobiasBora, try switching to MBR/BIOS
mode and booting? this honestly seems like something borked the efi
partition
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170[00:42:49] <pfred1> I need to hit my BIOS to adjust my case
fan I don't think Debian comes with Asus Fan expert does it?
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171[00:42:51] <tobiasBora> BanHammor: would my friend need to
reinstall debian?
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172[00:43:06] <tobiasBora> and actually the thing is that even
Windows does not boot, and he needs it
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174[00:43:31] <BanHammor> tobiasBora, we haven't diagnosed
the problem yet.
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175[00:43:38] <tobiasBora> pfred1: Debian comes with fishers, so
maybe also Asus Fan export
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177[00:44:14] <pfred1> tobiasBora I just imported this fan so
I'm planning on hanging onto it for a while
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179[00:44:31] <BanHammor> you might also want to use rEFInd to
regenerate the efi partition
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181[00:45:42] <tobiasBora> BanHammor: Ok. I'll tell my
friend to do that. The thing is that he is now sleeping in another
part of the world, so I'm affraid he won't answer tonight
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182[00:45:49] <BanHammor>
replaced-url
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184[00:46:42] <tobiasBora> BanHammor: This page will install
just grub-efi, so at most it should repair debian, but I don't
understand why/how Windows can also be broken
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185[00:46:46] <pfred1> I really got on IRC to take a poll JACK
or JACK2?
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186[00:46:57] * pfred1 doesn't know jack about JACK
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187[00:47:40] <BanHammor> tobiasBora, the EFI boot partition is
shared.
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188[00:48:00] <BanHammor> and presumably Debian borked it
somehow
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189[00:48:05] <tobiasBora> BanHammor: but then each OS share a
separate folder now? How is it possible that debian killed windows?
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190[00:48:31] <pfred1> EFI is just a tiny little partition
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192[00:49:33] <tobiasBora> hum... strange...
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194[00:49:42] <BanHammor> they don't share a "separate
folder", they share a partition where data needed to boot from
UEFI is.
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196[00:50:13] <tobiasBora> BanHammor: yes, but I mean on my
computer debian is on the folder "Debian" on this fat16
partition, and Windows is in a different folder
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197[00:50:16] <pfred1> yeah more bad ideas from peole that
don't care
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198[00:50:39] <markvandenborre> I'm looking for an app that
runs on linux and will show openstreetmap maps offline
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199[00:50:50] <markvandenborre> (routing is a bonus, but osm is
a must)
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200[00:50:54] <markvandenborre> any hints?
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201[00:51:09] *** Quits: BCMM (~BCMM@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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202[00:51:11] <pfred1> markvandenborre I looked at Linux GPS
software a while ago it exists
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203[00:51:16] <BanHammor> tobiasBora, sure, but if the fat16
partition is corrupted, every boot breaks.
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205[00:51:51] <pfred1> I thought about setting up a laptop as a
Linux GPS
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206[00:51:55] <tobiasBora> BanHammor: ohhh you think that
it's possible to corrupt the whole partition... Maybe yes...
I'll ask him to give it a look.
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210[00:52:24] <markvandenborre> pfred1: do you remember any
application?
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211[00:52:30] <zomaar> Is it actually normal for sudo to only
use the path of the invoking user?
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212[00:52:45] <pfred1> markvandenborre just vague memories of
what the applications looked like
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213[00:52:48] <tobiasBora> markvandenborre: I tried a while ago,
and OsmAnd (only for android unfortunately) beats all the linux
programs
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214[00:53:01] <dutchfish> zomaar, correct (per default)
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216[00:53:14] <markvandenborre> tobiasBora: no android here
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217[00:53:18] <zomaar> I have stuff like "sudo visudo"
--> program not found
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218[00:53:20] <pfred1> tobiasBora yeah what i saw looked pretty
primitive
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219[00:53:21] <BanHammor> tobiasBora, honestly he's better
off using refind
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221[00:53:39] <zomaar> dutchfish: I know there is a secure path
thing in sudoers but other than that, how can you actually get
access to sbin paths?
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222[00:53:52] <pfred1> zomaar did you install sudo?
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225[00:54:30] <BanHammor> markvandenborre, i think Marble uses
OSM
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226[00:54:35] <pfred1> zomaar use the full path
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227[00:54:47] <zomaar> yes pfred
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228[00:54:52] <zomaar> I have sudo installed
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229[00:55:03] <zomaar> Yes I know I can do that but that is
unworkable tyvm
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231[00:55:13] <zomaar> Please, let's stick to the topic
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234[00:55:33] <tobiasBora> BanHammor: Ok. So the step would be
1) try to boot on usb to check that EFI partition is not dead 2)
from this same live system install refind. By the way if I remove
the broken fat partition, will refind be able to recreate windows
entries?
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236[00:55:58] <tobiasBora> markvandenborre: if you want a list
of all the softwares, you may found
replaced-url
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237[00:56:01] <pfred1> zomaar if yo uwant to use a root command
as a user and sbin is not on your path you can use the full path to
the executable
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238[00:56:13] <zomaar> I know but I want to be able to use the
normal command name
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239[00:56:22] <pfred1> but then you also have to be doing
something your user is allowed to do
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240[00:56:38] <BanHammor> you should be able to at least boot
windows via GRUB os-prober, tobiasBora
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241[00:56:39] *** Quits: sgodoy (~sgodoy@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
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242[00:56:41] <dutchfish> zomaar, in /etc/sudoers you should
have a line Defaults
secure_path="/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin"
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243[00:56:49] <tobiasBora> markvandenborre: actually I should
try to remember, I think I found a nice one... Maybe marble,
I'll check
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244[00:57:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1562
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245[00:57:04] <pfred1> I can't believe I need to root privs
to do dmesg now
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246[00:57:13] <pfred1> that's so inconvenient
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247[00:57:26] <zomaar> Dutchfish ah yes I'm sorry there is
one thing I didn't want to mention so easily ;-)
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248[00:57:40] <solosoft> is you need to get to sbin /usr/sbin
add them to your path in bashrc or whatever you use
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249[00:57:45] <tobiasBora> BanHammor: what do you mean? even if
I recreated from scrach the UEFI partition?
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250[00:57:46] <zomaar> Dutchfish but now at least I know that
that is the default, I thought I had added that myself
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251[00:57:47] *** Joins: RayReddington (ad35440f@replaced-ip)
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252[00:57:51] <RayReddington> where is hicjklen
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253[00:57:56] <RayReddington> wheeeereee isss hicckklleennn
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254[00:58:00] <pfred1> solosoft you don't need to add
anything to your path
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255[00:58:12] <zomaar> Dutchfish secure_path is disabled when
you use exempt_group
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256[00:58:26] <dutchfish> zomaar, correct
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257[00:58:47] <zomaar> Which is really annoying in this sense
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258[00:59:22] *** Joins: pax (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
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259[00:59:28] <zomaar> I guess I will concoct a sudo -i thing
that will give me back my current directory
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260[00:59:31] *** Joins: niarek (5cb16327@replaced-ip)
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261[00:59:34] <dutchfish> zomaar, then add Defaults env_keep +=
"PATH"
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262[00:59:57] <zomaar> Does that keep the path of the target
user?
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263[01:00:02] *** Quits: weez17 (~isaac@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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264[01:00:03] <dutchfish> zomaar, yes
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265[01:00:09] <zomaar> Oh right, thanks
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266[01:00:33] <pfred1> zomaar sudo -s
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267[01:00:38] <dutchfish> zomaar, also take a peak at the shell
defaults
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273[01:02:24] <zomaar> dutchfish: You mean to make sure the sudo
actually uses the target user path?
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274[01:02:40] <zomaar> Doesn't env_keep use the invoking
user's path?
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277[01:03:23] <dutchfish> zomaar, that way the path environment
is added to the secure_path.
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278[01:04:29] <dutchfish> zomaar, that is the secure_path that
is configured in /etc/sudoers
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281[01:04:49] <zomaar> The problem is probably that the target
user doesn't have a default PATH unless bash is first run
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283[01:05:08] *** Joins: t0aster0ven (~iaeofjgsk@replaced-ip)
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284[01:05:25] <dutchfish> zomaar, and also the defaults for the
exemot_group
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285[01:05:39] <dutchfish> zomaar, exempt_group*
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286[01:06:27] <dutchfish> zomaar, iow you need also Defaults
exempt_group = EXEMPTUSER
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287[01:06:52] <dutchfish> zomaar, that should round it up
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288[01:06:53] *** Quits: niarek (5cb16327@replaced-ip) ()
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289[01:07:20] <dutchfish> zomaar, its a bit finicky
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290[01:07:59] *** Quits: hwm4rgs (~hwm4rgs@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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291[01:08:15] <zomaar> But wouldn't env_keep add the
invoking user's path instead of the target user's path?
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294[01:08:57] <dutchfish> zomaar, yes
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296[01:09:09] *** Joins: ryouma (~user@replaced-ip)
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297[01:09:30] <dutchfish> zomaar, otherwise around you just use
sudo -s
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298[01:10:07] *** Quits: BCMM (~BCMM@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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299[01:10:22] <zomaar> A different thing, how can you deal with
sudo never using any aliases?
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300[01:11:19] <dutchfish> zomaar, at the top my head something
like: User_Alias EXEMPTUSER = exempt
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301[01:11:34] <dutchfish> (didnt test that)
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302[01:11:45] *** Quits: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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303[01:11:46] * teatime is also interested in the current topic. I
work around the difficulties / setup the config various ways, but
could learn more.
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304[01:12:22] <dutchfish> teatime, and it is even more confusing
on other distros
replaced-url
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305[01:12:58] <dutchfish> teatime, on Debian the mapages are
really good
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306[01:13:03] <dutchfish> manpages*
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307[01:13:44] *** Quits: noobineer (~noobineer@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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308[01:14:28] <teatime> I recently discovered pam_env,
/etc/environment and ~/.pam_environment, and it was a forehead-slap
moment, compared to as much brain-effort as the simple "please
set some environment variables for this host/user" has cost me
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309[01:14:38] <solosoft> anyone tryed doas in linux? just
wondering ?
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310[01:14:43] <n4dir> zomaar: something like this wouldn't
work: alias sfdisk='sudo fdisk -l ' ?
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311[01:14:43] <n4dir>
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317[01:16:01] <n4dir> though i gotta say that with history
expansion i don't see much use in aliases anyway.
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318[01:16:22] *** Joins: lone-wolf (~l0n3w0lf@replaced-ip)
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319[01:17:51] <teatime> I think he means things like 'sudo
ls /some/secret/directory' don't use his user's,
e.v., alias ls='ls --color=auto'
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324[01:18:28] <n4dir> yeah, but i proposed to just
"double" them, including sudo inside the alias. I
can't put it well. sorry
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325[01:18:41] <markvandenborre> BanHammor: using marble indeed
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326[01:18:43] *** Joins: scyte (~scyte@replaced-ip)
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327[01:18:53] <markvandenborre> there is an option to download
the tiles around your route
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328[01:19:37] *** Quits: annadane (~annadane@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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329[01:19:55] <teatime> n4dir: works for some things well, but
doesn't solve the general case
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330[01:20:00] <n4dir> also i wonder if using functions instead
of aliase might work around his original question. i seem to recall
#bash proposes them in favor of aliases anyway
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331[01:20:12] *** Joins: likcoras (likcoras@replaced-ip)
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332[01:20:21] <teatime> then again, the general problem is
actually a feature (that you can turn off) intended to avoid
compromising your system's baseline security more than
necessary
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336[01:21:20] <BanHammor> alias sudo=/home/user/.local/evilsudo
--record-all-passwords
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337[01:22:16] *** Quits: pax (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: pax)
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338[01:22:40] <teatime> zomaar: did your original question get
answered satisfactorially?
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339[01:23:05] <teatime> it seemed like the answers given might
have digressed away from it
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342[01:26:32] <teatime> zomaar: if not, then I think the answer
is what you/dutchfish discussed, + adding /sbin /usr/sbin
/usr/local/sbin to your user's $PATH as well in your
user's shell startup, didn't really get mentioned but may
have been obvious
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344[01:27:21] *** Joins: patterson (~patterson@replaced-ip)
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345[01:27:23] <teatime> so that both 'ip' and
'sudo ip' work w/o saying /sbin/ip.
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346[01:27:55] *** Joins: rjsalts (~rjsalts@replaced-ip)
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347[01:31:03] <somiaj> since ip is in /bin/ip, I doubt that is
the issue. It was for ifconfig, but not ip
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348[01:31:59] <somiaj> (though I missed what binary the question
was for)
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350[01:32:25] *** Joins: semeion (~semeion@replaced-ip)
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351[01:32:26] <somiaj> oh /sbin/ip -> /bin/ip is a symbolic
link...
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352[01:32:40] *** Quits: ben_roose (~roose@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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353[01:33:06] <teatime> heh... I was going to use ifconfig as my
example, then thought to head-off "ifconfig is deprecated"
replies
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354[01:33:53] *** Quits: dadinn (~DADINN@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
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355[01:34:54] <somiaj> haha, well one nice thing is they put ip
in a nicer place too (:
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356[01:36:37] *** Quits: CyberManifest (~CyberMani@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
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357[01:36:49] <somiaj> wonder if ever usrmerge will become more
common then /sbin/ip -> /bin/ip, but /bin -> /usr/bin....
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358[01:37:33] *** Quits: n4dir (~user@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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359[01:38:18] <bites> symlinks all the way down.
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360[01:38:46] <somiaj> teatime: though I agree, not having
ifconfig in $PATH due to it being in /sbin was always an annoycance
I ahd to work around.
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361[01:39:08] <somiaj> and I think ifconfig was one of the only
binaries I found that it anyoing to not have /sbin in my $PATH
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370[01:45:30] <zomaar> teatime: I actually concocted a rather
difficult shell function to use sudo -i while using sh to set the
path back to my current path (I mean cwd) and then execute the
command (+ parameters) using eval after wrapping them in
"escaped quotes"
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371[01:45:42] <zomaar> hahaha
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372[01:45:43] *** Quits: bolt (~r00t@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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373[01:46:26] <zomaar> But it works for now, I'll see when
it breaks
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374[01:47:04] <zomaar> As a result, "sudo bash" leaves
me in my current directory even though it uses sudo -i :p
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378[01:49:57] <teatime> somiaj: the security feature I was
referring to was not trusting the invoking user's custom path
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379[01:50:29] <teatime> somiaj: but, yes, adding the sbin's
to my user's path is one of my first changes on a new whatever
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380[01:50:37] <zomaar> Aye but then when you become a little
liberal with not requiring any passwords it turns the whole feature
off
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381[01:51:08] <somiaj> ifconfig was one of the few binaries I
regurally used that wasn't in my default users $PATH, so I
never updated it, just learned to type /sbin/ifconfig
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383[01:51:33] <EnchanterTim> Hello
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384[01:51:46] *** Quits: cthonic (~otho@replaced-ip) (Quit: Time wasted on IRC: 11 minutes 39 seconds)
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385[01:52:10] <teatime> zomaar: both distrusting user's
environment and requiring a password are trying to mitigate the same
sort of thing, the user being tricked into running malicious code
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386[01:52:17] <EnchanterTim> I have a debian inside debian,
using systemd-nspawn, and I have apps/sound etc working with audio,
but I can't get glx working. How can I share the glx of host
machine to a debian container
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387[01:52:25] <EnchanterTim> libGL error: failed to load driver:
swrast
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391[01:54:30] <zomaar> teatime: It's real cute but I think
you can get around anything with expect
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392[01:54:43] *** Parts: lachm (~lachm@replaced-ip) ()
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393[01:54:45] <zomaar> teatime: And on a GUI it is very easy to
install a keylogger as well
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394[01:55:02] *** Joins: tpanarch1st (~tpanarch1@replaced-ip)
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395[01:55:21] <zomaar> Maybe not on a server
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399[01:57:02] <zomaar> So there are two cases: the user is
compromised by password, or by service/client program
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400[01:57:11] <zomaar> If by password, sudo with password will
provide no protection
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401[01:57:30] <teatime> zomaar: requiring a password helps
mitigate the user running code that unexpectedly uses sudo to
elevate privs, and distrusting the path helps mitigate the user
running code that manipulates the path to truck the user into
running it later w/ elevated privs
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402[01:58:05] *** Quits: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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403[01:58:38] <teatime> neither are complete protection, nor are
either universally useful in every use case
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406[02:01:19] <zomaar> Which is why I think it is generally
false security and more trouble than it's worth, but
that's mostly because I become sick from having to type
unexpected sudo passwords all the time
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407[02:01:29] *** Joins: de-facto (~de-facto@replaced-ip)
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408[02:01:44] <zomaar> I hate this stuff being so unpredictable
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409[02:01:56] <zomaar> Or tab completion adding a space
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411[02:02:04] <zomaar> But not if an identical file with a
longer name exists
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412[02:02:08] <zomaar> And vi also not adding a space
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416[02:04:02] <zomaar> I mean you are in a sudo editor, leave
the editor and have to type your password again on the next
invocation
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417[02:04:29] *** Quits: Cabanossi (~Cabanossi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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418[02:04:38] <somiaj> you can change the sudo timeout for a
shell before it asks for a password again.
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419[02:04:45] <somiaj> though I guess I don't do that much
as root that I find this a pain
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422[02:04:57] <zomaar> I know
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423[02:05:15] <zomaar> Well I don't know how to turn my
entire system into "user friendly"
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426[02:06:09] *** Quits: Tr4sK (~tr4sk@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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427[02:06:10] <zomaar> Still makes no difference, I might be in
the editor for an hour
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430[02:06:32] <zomaar> I might run 20 different sub-shells
within the editor all root
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431[02:06:37] <somiaj> what are you editing?
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432[02:06:38] <zomaar> Then I leave the editor and bam no root
anymore
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433[02:07:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1552
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434[02:07:04] <zomaar> I don't know, in this case I was
referring to apache stuff I guess
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435[02:07:08] *** Joins: Zvmdyv (~Zvmdyv@replaced-ip)
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436[02:07:16] <zomaar> Can be anything really
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437[02:07:36] <somiaj> I guess I just don't find myself
editing system stuff that often.
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438[02:07:46] *** Joins: KR (2ee5acb7@replaced-ip)
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439[02:07:58] <zomaar> Even the vi subshell thing is a pain to
use :p
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440[02:08:02] *** Joins: Tr4sK (~tr4sk@replaced-ip)
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441[02:08:28] <zomaar> With my bad short-term memory ;-)
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442[02:08:38] <zomaar> "Wait, am I in a subshell or
not?"
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443[02:08:41] *** Joins: whiskey_soda (~whiskey_s@replaced-ip)
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444[02:08:43] <zomaar> "Do I press ctrl-D now?"
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445[02:08:53] <zomaar> "Shit"
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446[02:09:06] *** Quits: whiskey_soda (~whiskey_s@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
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447[02:09:16] <zomaar> So then I run pstree -s $$
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448[02:09:24] <KR> Hello. I was directed here about a certain
prototype for the Nintendo 64. Has anyone heard anything about this
recently?
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449[02:09:31] <zomaar> Or I check the recent command history to
know where I am
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451[02:09:40] *** Quits: bites (~bites@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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452[02:09:46] <KR> I thought that maybe someone here brought it
up in the recent past. (?)
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456[02:12:12] <zomaar> Every day at least 5 times I press ctrl-D
and then exit the SSH session instead of the subshell
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457[02:12:23] <zomaar> Or something like that in any case
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458[02:12:26] *** Parts: KR (2ee5acb7@replaced-ip) ()
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459[02:15:20] <zomaar> But now I solved my sudo problem
completely
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470[02:22:00] <pfred1> zomaar just run as root problem solved
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472[02:23:05] <pfred1> I want to know when they're going to
finish multiplayer in supertuxkart
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473[02:23:08] <zomaar> I'm not gonna respond to such
comments pfred1
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474[02:24:36] <pfred1> I built the git version last week and
it's still not done!
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519[02:58:36] <crestfallen> hi anyone comment on virtual Qubes
OS for security?
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532[03:09:14] <annadane> crestfallen, may want to try
#privacytech on irc.oftc.net or elsewhere, this channel is really
for debian support
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542[03:13:01] <acidtripper> Hi
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583[03:48:52] *** PI- is now known as Guest70705
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584[03:49:12] <Guest70705> frfr
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590[03:51:17] <Guest70705> boom
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593[03:52:41] <nomad__> hi
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595[03:54:25] <nomad__> n
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598[03:57:26] <nomad__> i need some information about
fluxion-3in kali-linux
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599[03:57:37] <nomad__> i need some information about fluxion-3
in kali-linux
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600[03:57:39] <nomad__> i need some information about fluxion-3
in kali-linux
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601[03:57:41] <nomad__> i need some information about fluxion-3
in kali-linux
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604[03:58:12] <nomad__> i need some information about fluxion-3
in kali-linux
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605[03:58:39] <nomad__> do u know some about it cyborg
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606[03:58:44] <nomad__> do u know some about it cyborg-one
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607[03:58:45] <nomad__> do u know some about it cyborg-one
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609[03:58:47] <nomad__> do u know some about it cyborg-one
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610[03:58:55] <krytarik> nomad__: ...?
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612[03:59:21] <nomad__> i need some information about fluxion-3
in kali-linux
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618[04:00:40] <nomad__> what the f,aint nobody talking or what
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619[04:01:25] <nomad__> im about to drop some bomb in this motha
fffffffffuuuuuuuubfdsgfdgfdsckaaaaa
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628[04:05:21] <cyberfunk> hao dare you?
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632[04:07:16] <cyberfunk> visual boy advance is in your repos...
although visualboy advance-m has closed a buffer vulnerability of
visual boy advance ages ago. why is this not in the repos but the
unsecureversion is? *edgy stare*
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633[04:07:56] <cyberfunk> 0
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634[04:08:04] <cyberfunk> 0_0
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635[04:09:08] <cyberfunk> oh? is this more suited for the
testing chat you say?
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637[04:10:34] <cyberfunk> well I will voice my opinions there!
But you when you close your eyes tonight... think of your security
philosophy when pushing our dirty packages!
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638[04:11:19] <cyberfunk> Off I go!
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650[04:22:10] <benrob0329> Has the kwin-style-qtcurve been
completely removed from stretch?
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651[04:22:38] <benrob0329> Like, only stretch. Not sid, not
wheezy
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652[04:22:45] <benrob0329> Just stretch?
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654[04:23:22] <coruja> ,v kwin-style-qtcurve
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655[04:23:23] <judd> Package: kwin-style-qtcurve on amd64 --
wheezy: 1.8.12-2; jessie: 1.8.14-3+b2
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657[04:24:54] <coruja> ,v qtcurve
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658[04:24:55] <judd> Package: qtcurve on amd64 -- wheezy:
1.8.12-2; jessie: 1.8.14-3+b2; stretch:
1.8.18+git20160320-3d8622c-3+deb9u1; buster:
1.8.18+git20160320-3d8622c-5+b2; sid:
1.8.18+git20160320-3d8622c-5+b2
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660[04:25:24] <coruja>
replaced-url
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##replaced-url
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677[04:34:16] <benrob0329> coruja: so, yes they were removed?
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678[04:34:31] <benrob0329> Which means I need to switch to
testing if I want them?
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680[04:35:03] <coruja> have you read the link i posted?
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681[04:35:39] <coruja> 'Renamed to qtcurve'
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682[04:36:18] <coruja> ,v kde-style-qtcurve
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683[04:36:20] <judd> Package: kde-style-qtcurve on amd64 --
wheezy: 1.8.12-2; jessie: 1.8.14-3+b2
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685[04:36:43] <coruja> ,v kde-style-qtcurve-qt5
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686[04:36:44] <judd> Package: kde-style-qtcurve-qt5 on amd64 --
stretch: 1.8.18+git20160320-3d8622c-3+deb9u1; buster:
1.8.18+git20160320-3d8622c-5+b2; sid:
1.8.18+git20160320-3d8622c-5+b2
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688[04:37:02] <coruja> ^ maybe you want to install that one
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703[04:47:54] <benrob0329> coruja: I have 3
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704[04:48:00] <benrob0329> *all three
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705[04:48:14] <benrob0329> Rebooting to see if everything needed
a restart to find it
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707[04:49:00] <coruja> ,v needrestart
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708[04:49:01] <judd> Package: needrestart on amd64 --
wheezy-backports: 1.2-7~bpo70+1; jessie: 1.2-8+deb8u1;
jessie-backports: 2.11-2~bpo8+1; stretch: 2.11-3; buster: 2.11-4;
sid: 2.11-4; experimental: 2.11+git20180213-1
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709[04:49:31] <benrob0329> Nope, not there
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710[04:50:12] <coruja> then someone with more insight into kde
should take over ;)
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723[05:03:22] <benrob0329> I specifically need the kwin qtcurve
style
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775[05:40:04] <awal1> how to find initial install of x pkg
without without checking the whole apt history?
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781[05:44:39] <teatime> I don't know of a way besides
grepping the logs
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846[06:52:11] <CrazyTux> which DE along with Debian stable is
most suitable for linux newbies?
-
847[06:52:29] <CrazyTux> someone who has been using Windows.
-
848[06:52:41] <annadane> i guess the stock answer is ubuntu or
mint
-
849[06:53:56] <teatime> CrazyTux: at one time I would suggest
ubuntu to such people, but it seems to have gotten progressively
glitchier, so now I just say Debian across the board.
-
850[06:54:14] <annadane> yeah, debian is the most solid choice
and i'd rather recommend it compared to those two
-
851[06:54:31] <teatime> there is probably a better answer but I
don't keep up w/ a lot of distros
-
852[06:54:47] <CrazyTux> teatime, please elaborate
-
853[06:54:59] <teatime> not sure what else I can say
-
854[06:55:18] <CrazyTux> progressively glitchier?
-
855[06:55:38] *** Quits: Myk256 (~myk267@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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856[06:56:14] <teatime> my less technical friends that I turned
onto ubuntu have increasingly ran into bugs and instability, and it
turns out they seem happier w/ Debian
-
857[06:56:47] <koollman> CrazyTux: I would say gnome or kde.
pretty easy
-
858[06:57:34] <annadane> those are desktop environments, not
distributions
-
859[06:57:40] <CrazyTux> ok. which is lighter of the two, gnome
or kde?
-
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861[06:57:45] <teatime> sigh
-
862[06:57:55] <Sir_Designer> if you have a slow machine, xfce
would be a lighter desktop
-
863[06:57:56] <koollman> annadane: 'which DE'
-
864[06:58:05] <CrazyTux> ok
-
865[06:58:18] <annadane> oh "de"
-
866[06:58:23] <teatime> ah, me and annadane both mis-read it I
guess
-
867[06:58:31] <annadane> they said "which de along with
debian stable" which is a bit of a nonsensical question
-
868[06:58:48] <annadane> but it makes sense depending on how you
define stuff... anyway, moving on
-
869[06:58:48] <themill> why?
-
870[06:59:18] <CrazyTux> is Debian testing suitable for newbies?
-
871[06:59:32] <teatime> CrazyTux: the 'default' is
Gnome, it's kindof the most complete and most polished in some
ways, and also does put a lot of effort into considering new users.
-
872[06:59:35] <CrazyTux> is it a rolling release version of
Debian?
-
873[07:00:00] <teatime> xfce is lighter weight, more traditional
looking and acting
-
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-
875[07:00:02] <teatime> you can try them all
-
876[07:00:08] <CrazyTux> teatime, ok
-
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878[07:00:18] <koollman> CrazyTux: mostly, yes. I wouldn't
recommend it to a newbie. But it is mostly ok
-
879[07:00:20] <teatime> I'd stick w/ stable if I were you
-
880[07:00:22] <annadane> yeah, i probably did just misread. :D
-
881[07:00:25] <annadane> sorry
-
882[07:00:59] <teatime> I mean, depends what you want. feel free
to experiment and explore.
-
883[07:01:05] <CrazyTux> ok. I need to install a stable linux
distro for a friend of mine. I will consider Debian Stable with
Gnome, then.
-
884[07:01:21] <t3st3r> my favorite DE would be xfce - light and
not too hard to get running and not too bugged. and can behave more
or less like windows did
-
885[07:01:42] <t3st3r> without nasty experiments on users like
kde and gnome try to do all the time
-
886[07:01:56] <teatime> that's a good description, heh
-
887[07:02:10] <annadane> just be aware if you use gnome that
it's keyboard focused and doesn't come with the minimize
button activated by default
-
888[07:02:17] <koollman> t3st3r: 'all the time' in
debian stable is 'not very often', anyway ;)
-
889[07:02:18] <annadane> it can be confusing at first
-
890[07:02:55] <CrazyTux> how about Mate or Cinnamon?
-
891[07:03:03] <annadane> pretty much everyone likes xfce
-
892[07:03:06] <t3st3r> so whatever but friends of mine who were
using windows appreciated XFCE as it keeps familiar workflows and
does not breaks
-
893[07:03:17] <CrazyTux> ok
-
894[07:03:26] <annadane> not sure about cinnamon, mate is quite
nice though
-
895[07:03:27] <t3st3r> well, debian stable could be a bit
outdated for desktops but works for undemanding users
-
896[07:03:38] <koollman> CrazyTux: feel free to try. you are not
limited to one
-
897[07:04:05] <CrazyTux> ok
-
898[07:04:17] <t3st3r> CrazyTux> I do not use that. At first
glance XFCE needs less dependencies and does not attempts to feed me
with slow/resource hog python components.
-
899[07:04:31] <t3st3r> could be very valuable for users with
slow computers, etc
-
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-
901[07:04:48] <CrazyTux> ok. I will try Debian Stable with Xfce
then.
-
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-
903[07:05:27] <annadane> "no, wait!" <600 other
recommendations>
-
904[07:05:46] <t3st3r> are there 600 DEs at all? oO
-
905[07:05:51] <annadane> there are not.
-
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908[07:06:32] <annadane> my own preference is not to install
more than 1 as it just leads to cruft
-
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-
910[07:06:40] <CrazyTux> how about MX Linux or Devuan?
-
911[07:06:58] <t3st3r> sure, it leads to cruft, and a lot of
it...
-
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-
914[07:07:13] <RayReddington> hicklen are you there mhicklen are
you theeereee
-
915[07:07:16] <DerLGm> i like openbox
-
916[07:07:18] <RayReddington> also why cant i msg people
-
917[07:07:21] <t3st3r> CrazyTux> speaking for myself I'm
more than fine with systemd.
-
918[07:07:26] <RayReddington> oh nvm
-
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-
920[07:07:42] <CrazyTux> ok
-
921[07:07:42] <t3st3r> it allows me to do rather complicated
system level things easy
-
922[07:08:22] <CrazyTux> I am just a beginner. Don't have
much knowledge of systemd and non-systemd.
-
923[07:08:51] <t3st3r> I guess best way is to try both
approaches and see what you would like yourself. Same goes for DEs
actually.
-
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-
925[07:09:20] <t3st3r> could be time consuming but
someone's else experience != your experience :P
-
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-
927[07:11:00] <t3st3r> so you could get really different ideas
on same topics and you wouldn't know without trying that
-
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931[07:14:15] <CrazyTux> ok
-
932[07:14:32] *** Parts: almidas (almidas@replaced-ip) ()
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933[07:16:11] <CrazyTux> if I want to install Windows 10 in
Virtual Box with Debian as a Host OS and wish to install SAP ERP on
Windows, how much disk space would be needed?
-
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935[07:16:42] <CrazyTux> I want to install SAP IDES.
-
936[07:17:19] <CrazyTux> and which package is better? Gnome
Boxes or Oracle Virtual Box?
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941[07:21:12] <awal1> CrazyTux, for newbies, virtualbox is
easier to manage than qemu-kvm; gnome boxes is heavy and not really
mature, last time I tried it, like 1 year ago, maybe
-
942[07:21:31] <CrazyTux> ok
-
943[07:21:50] <awal1> if not used to gnu/linux, I seriously
recommend kde
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946[07:22:18] <awal1> but it is a heavy DE; so mte should be
more suitable
-
947[07:22:24] <awal1> mate
-
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949[07:22:41] <alkisg> mate has a "redmont panel"
layout that is a bit more familiar to windows users
-
950[07:22:53] <awal1> is light, user friendly and stable (it is
a fork of gnome2)
-
951[07:23:48] <awal1> xfce is a better choice but you'll
have to tweak it
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954[07:24:09] <CrazyTux> ok
-
955[07:24:17] * alkisg doesn't understand why xfce is a better
choice than mate, but anyway, personal opinions there and all that
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957[07:24:55] <alkisg> xfce is a project started by and
maintained by a few developers. mate is a project started from a
company (gnome 2) and then forked and maintained by a few
developers, so imho it's way more mature
-
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959[07:26:12] <annadane> kde isn't especially heavyweight
but if you're on a hard drive the boot is about 15-20 seconds
as compared to much less for xfce/mate
-
960[07:26:30] <awal1> it is a fork of gnome2. many stuff have
been added to mate, which made it not really solid as gnome2 was
-
961[07:26:35] <annadane> HDD i mean as opposed to an SSD
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964[07:27:12] <awal1> I personally use justa window manager
(openbox, almost); but I tried them all and found xfce the most
stable
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966[07:27:40] <Unit193> In the end it's all just taste.
-
967[07:27:41] <awal1> more feature= more bugs
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969[07:27:53] <awal1> the case of gnome/kde
-
970[07:28:01] <annadane> well it's taste but not if you
don't know what to look for initially
-
971[07:28:04] <alkisg> afaik lxde and xfce don't even
implement inhibitors, so you can lose works by just logging out
-
972[07:28:09] <alkisg> *work
-
973[07:28:17] <t3st3r> so kde proven to be buggy and laggy for
me, even on powerful computers.
-
974[07:28:35] <awal1> ^yeah
-
975[07:28:44] <t3st3r> not to mention I do not want SQL
databases or something to store 50 contacts or so in facility no
programs I use cares of
-
976[07:29:06] <t3st3r> at the end of day I do not want to be DBA
and KDE keeps insisting I have to
-
977[07:29:38] <annadane> i do really like xfce's really
fine grained control center options or whatever it's called
-
978[07:29:54] <t3st3r> So its funny and I've used it
eventually but got fed up with all bloat I never use.
-
979[07:30:01] <annadane> MATE i found everything is hidden
within menus within menus but i never extensively look into any of
this stuff
-
980[07:30:39] <t3st3r> XFCE just haves enough settings in GUI
not to feel pain configuring everything hard way, yet not bloated
like others :)
-
981[07:30:42] <annadane> but it's linux of course, you can
change the behavior of just about anything
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983[07:31:12] <awal1> CrazyTux, as you see, it is a matter of
choices/tastes/experiences. try them all then choose :P
-
984[07:31:27] <t3st3r> KDE affords more glamourous themes, etc.
But, honestly, I can't even configure damn wi-fi on laptop
because plasmoid weird thing misbehaves.
-
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986[07:31:29] <annadane> now let's talk about text editors
-
987[07:32:09] <t3st3r> sure, I can do iw dev wlan0 scan
blah-doh, and set up wpa_supplicant, but it is a bit too long to
connect to net in cafe this way!
-
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989[07:32:35] <CrazyTux> ok
-
990[07:32:49] <awal1> you may end using 'dwm',
CrazyTux, after all :P
-
991[07:32:51] <t3st3r> So when it comes to bugs, some bugs CAN
bite, doh.
-
992[07:32:51] <annadane> but yeah i do feel xfce is the most
intuitive of all of them, pretty much
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994[07:33:50] <t3st3r> and gnome just got obsessed on "user
is retarded" so much I can't make my laptop going to sleep
reasonably from GUI settings.
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996[07:34:27] <annadane> i just hate xfce's stupid ugly
default green wallpaper :P
-
997[07:34:30] <alkisg> annadane: I do have a question about
editors, why there's no famous text-based editor that uses all
the familiar shortcuts that gui editors like gedit use, and people
insist on the vi/emacs/nano debate :P
-
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999[07:34:33] <t3st3r> sure, it could be hard for retards to
configure sleep mode of laptop. But it's even harder for me to
configure it outside of GUI :)
-
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1001[07:35:35] <t3st3r> fortunately wallpaper is probably one of
easiest things to fix :)
-
1002[07:35:43] <awal1> I said xfce is great bcoz it is light,
stable very customizable . and I like its conservatism
-
1003[07:35:46] <n4dir> alkisg: you might just as well ask the
other way around, i guess. :-)
-
1004[07:35:48] <awal1> 'geany' is good
-
1005[07:36:29] <alkisg> n4dir: imagine all gui textboxes in every
application and browser using vi-like shortcuts :D The death of the
internet!
-
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1007[07:36:59] <t3st3r> have to agree with that :). I like it
too. Some neat features without bloat of heavy-weight IDEs.
-
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1009[07:37:19] <n4dir> i seem to recall something like vimperator
or such for firefox, but i for one sure didn't get the hang of
it :-)
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1020[07:44:31] <CrazyTux> is LXQT stable?
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1032[07:48:23] <jordanm> CrazyTux: stable is debian terminology
means that it doesn't change, so yes, in stable it's
stable
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1039[07:52:46] <t3st3r> but sometimes stable could mean
"stale" :P
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1046[07:55:53] <t3st3r> so running debian stable on desktop is
basically fine for old HW when one does not wants brand new
programs. But if one wants new SW versions or uses recent HW...
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1049[07:57:10] <n4dir> huh?
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1059[08:00:46] <CrazyTux> is Lxqt bugfree?
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1062[08:02:05] <Unit193> Pretty sure no software is, but I'm
not sure I'd want to use the version in stable.
-
1063[08:02:42] <n4dir> there is always bugs.debian.org
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1065[08:02:52] <CrazyTux> ok
-
1066[08:03:07] <n4dir> though lxqt is so small, i see no reason
not to install it and have a look and decide what you think of it.
-
1067[08:03:19] <CrazyTux> what's your opinion on rolling
release distros like Solus?
-
1068[08:03:39] <n4dir> i am with awal1 though, xfce is a safe
bet.
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1072[08:05:12] <jordanm> CrazyTux: I haven't heard of Solus,
but because I use my machine as my primary machine for my
occupational work, I very much dislike rolling distros
-
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1074[08:05:47] <jordanm> if you need specific software up to date
(which is typically very little), you can mange that small subset
manually
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1077[08:06:17] <CrazyTux> jordanm, why do you think rolling
release distros are unsuitable for that?
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1081[08:08:04] <jordanm> CrazyTux: every change is a potential
for issues
-
1082[08:08:17] <CrazyTux> ok
-
1083[08:08:33] <n4dir> and if you don't upgrade them
regularly, you might run into more problems when upgrading loads of
software at once.
-
1084[08:08:40] <jordanm> CrazyTux: no rolling release distro can
invest enough QA time into every package release to ensure it's
not going to break for someone's use case
-
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1086[08:08:51] <jordanm> CrazyTux: non-rolling releases barely
can
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1088[08:09:15] <CrazyTux> ok
-
1089[08:09:43] <jordanm> it's up to you to decide what is an
acceptable amount of risk for your machine or work process to cease
function and require fixing
-
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1091[08:10:39] <CrazyTux> ok
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1094[08:13:18] <n4dir> while i mostly agree with jordanm, for
such questions you will get all kind of answers. You will have to
decide for yourself ( to ask might make sense, but in the end
it's a question of many things, like jordanm already pointed
out)
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1108[08:23:28] <CrazyTux> ok
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1112[08:24:34] <CrazyTux> guys, thanks a lot for all this info.
-
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1114[08:24:42] <CrazyTux> have a great day.
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1133[08:33:27] <evilroots> ANYONE HAVEA ORANGE PI?
-
1134[08:33:39] <evilroots> i need some help, i cannot get it to
work on JUST wifi
-
1135[08:33:50] <evilroots> it only works if i havea cable pluged
into it
-
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1137[08:34:03] <evilroots> :C
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1140[08:35:46] <evilroots> i got my LOTW postcard but my dogs ate
it
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1144[08:37:26] <breakcoreboy> hi guys
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1146[08:37:37] <breakcoreboy> anyone up?
-
1147[08:38:00] <breakcoreboy> im having trouble trying to have
sound in a lenovo laptop in debian sid :(
-
1148[08:39:04] <n4dir> !next
-
1149[08:39:04] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
-
1150[08:39:06] <n4dir> damn
-
1151[08:39:09] <n4dir> !debian-next
-
1152[08:39:10] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for
testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not*
on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is
invite only)." it means you did not read it's on
irc.oftc.net.
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1154[08:39:46] <breakcoreboy> ok, thanks
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1156[08:40:12] <breakcoreboy> another happy customer leaves the
building
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1159[08:40:47] <n4dir> i doubt it relates to the problem, but it
is like it is, and if using sid or testing, then #debian-next is the
right channel (i for one sure wouldn't know how to help you)
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1242[09:31:51] <zomaar> If an upstream doesn't have any man
pages in the repository, can I assume they were added by the Debian
project?
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1254[09:37:09] <somiaj> zomaar: you can look at the change
log/debian patches to see where they came from.
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1256[09:38:23] <zomaar> Looking at the changelog the debian
maintainers did most of it
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1306[10:21:17] <zomaar> somiaj: I just submitted a patch through
the bugtracker, it was just a manpage improvement, thanks ;-)
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1318[10:26:43] <zomaar> Although I am not getting a response from
the bugtracker and of course I made an error in the title
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1324[10:29:50] <zomaar> You ought to get a direct response from
the bugtracker right?
-
1325[10:29:52] <zomaar> Using reportbug
-
1326[10:30:29] <somiaj> as the bug submitter, you are by default
on the mailing list for any additional info sent to the bug report.
-
1327[10:30:39] <zomaar> But I cannot even find the bug
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1329[10:30:47] <somiaj> give it a little bit
-
1330[10:30:52] <zomaar> Alright
-
1331[10:31:13] <somiaj> 10-15mins is usually more than enough
time. After an hour, you can probably safely assume your mail did
not make it to the bts correctly.
-
1332[10:31:31] <somiaj> (report bug requires you have SMTP
correctly setup on your system, or give it a valid SMPT account)
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1336[10:32:42] <zomaar> 10 minutes now ;-)
-
1337[10:33:18] <zomaar> I removed the -- system part from the
message because I was submitting from a different system, I hope
that doesn't make a difference as to the result
-
1338[10:33:31] <somiaj> I often use bugreport -> but
don't send the email, save it as a text, then send the email
directly using my normal method.
-
1339[10:33:41] <zomaar> Right
-
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1341[10:34:30] <somiaj> Since it is a manpage issue and you have
supplied a patch, I doubt it matters. In general that info is to
help isolate/prorduce the bug.
-
1342[10:35:36] <somiaj> but I would suggest producing the bug
report on the machine that has the bug, and then saving it a text
file if you have to email it from a different machine.
-
1343[10:36:04] <zomaar> Right
-
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1345[10:36:33] <zomaar> I also copied the origin machine's
version into the version field
-
1346[10:36:48] <zomaar> I don't know if that means it is
filed against exactly that version
-
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1348[10:36:55] <Unit193> Though of course it is possible to have
reportbug use, say, gmail to send the message.
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1352[10:37:42] <somiaj> Unit193: directly, I had to setup exim to
send through gmail due to authentication?
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1358[10:38:14] <somiaj> oh wait, I also had to send over ssl
because my ISP blocks port 25
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1360[10:38:35] <Unit193> somiaj:
BTS_SMTP_HOST=smtps://smtp.gmail.com and
BTS_SMTP_AUTH_USERNAME=unit193 in .devscripts.
-
1361[10:39:05] <TaZeR> my isp is so gay it blocks port 80 and 25
and every other port worth anything
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1363[10:39:28] <TaZeR> maybe we have the same one
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1365[10:40:16] <somiaj> TaZeR: it is common for isp's to
block 25, it helps keep spammers from using the network, and most of
them offer their own smtp server you could use (I just don't
use my isp's mailserver)
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1370[10:41:11] <somiaj> often one really just needs to relay
through their mailserver (instead of using it). Though it seems they
don't tend to do this with the ssl mail port.
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1373[10:41:18] <somiaj> Unit193: thanks
-
1374[10:41:32] <Unit193> somiaj: That might actually be related
to something else..
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1376[10:42:13] <zomaar> My system always receives mail just fine;
and sends it
-
1377[10:42:27] <somiaj> yea depends a lot on the isp.
-
1378[10:42:46] <Unit193> somiaj: Yeah sorry, I mixed up the
config. That one is for bts, reportbug is close, but slightly
different.
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1408[11:04:02] <zomaar> The first one was not received and the
second one I sent was received within one minute
-
1409[11:04:09] <zomaar> I am glad I didn't wait around for
longer
-
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1411[11:04:43] <Unit193> (#890386)
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1414[11:06:02] <zomaar> Not sure why it was reported against the
src package though
-
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1416[11:07:21] <Unit193> Whup, #890388 too.
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1431[11:16:24] <_k0ala_> Hi, new here. I have a question. For
example, if I'm in GNOME, and if I search with a specific
query, I get a list of programs whose names match my search query.
My question is: Where is that list of installed programs stored?
-
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1434[11:19:04] <zomaar> And then 6 minutes later the bug report
from an hour ago also makes it through
-
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1437[11:20:13] <zomaar> It doesn't seem possible to remove
any bug reports
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##replaced-url
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1490[11:52:12] *** Joins: dissidence (~derwaffen@replaced-ip)
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1491[11:52:13] <dissidence> iptables v1.4.21: can't
initialize iptables table `filter': Table does not exist (do
you need to insmod?)
-
1492[11:52:25] <dissidence> iptables -L gives the following error
^
-
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1494[11:53:10] <dissidence> you gotta be root for that too??
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1495[11:53:17] *** Parts: dissidence (~derwaffen@replaced-ip) ()
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1496[11:53:53] <lram> Hello, is there an opportunity to use
apt-transport-https on security.debian.org?
-
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1498[11:55:29] <petn-randall> lram: No, it wouldn't add much
to it, either.
-
1499[11:55:35] <petn-randall> *security
-
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1502[11:58:24] <BCMM> petn-randall: because the packages are
signed anyway, right?
-
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1509[12:03:36] <lram> petn-randall: It would. Firewalls (not
under my control) are preventing communication to Debian
repositories via http. Repositories which support https are working,
security.debian.org not. I consider it as an increase in security if
I could get updates from security.debian.org.
-
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1521[12:08:49] <dissidence> is there an easy command to set the
time and date?
-
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1524[12:09:11] <lram> dissidence: date?
-
1525[12:09:37] <BCMM> dissidence: do you want to manually enter
the time, or have it synced from the net?
-
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1527[12:10:16] <lram> dissidence: sudo ntpdate 3.de.pool.ntp.org
-
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1530[12:11:44] <dissidence> trying to set the correct time and
date
-
1531[12:11:57] <petn-randall> lram: Then I'll assume they
have a working proxy running.
-
1532[12:12:34] <dissidence> okay thanks that worked
-
1533[12:12:38] *** Parts: dissidence (~derwaffen@replaced-ip) ()
-
1534[12:12:58] <lram> petn-randall: Don't assume working
infrastructure, which are not under your control :)
-
1535[12:14:58] <petn-randall> lram: All mirrors for Debian
won't get https in the forseeable future because the DSA would
have to distribute TLS certs, too. And then start trusting the
mirror admins, which is something they don't want to do.
-
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-
1537[12:15:22] <petn-randall> lram: The concept of how apt works
is that the mirror admins don't need to be trusted.
-
1538[12:15:33] <babilen> dpkg: secure apt
-
1539[12:15:33] <dpkg> [apt-secure] Starting with version 0.6,
<APT> performs signature checking of the Release file for all
archives. See
replaced-url
-
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-
1545[12:17:30] <lram> petn-randall: I don't mean that we
should drop end-to-end package signing in favor of transport
encryption via TLS. I just want package updates via HTTPS to
circumvent systems which are preventing me from doing package
upates.
-
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-
1550[12:20:05] <BCMM> lram: i think the point is that, as long as
they're accessed as something.debian.org they have to be using
debian tls keys
-
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-
1552[12:20:21] <BCMM> certs, rather
-
1553[12:20:51] <BCMM> which would entail distributing the certs
to so many different groups that they would no longer be
meaningfully trustworthy
-
1554[12:21:44] <BCMM> petn-randall please correct me if i've
misunderstood
-
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-
1558[12:22:24] <lram> That would be totally okay, since we have
signed packages as a trust anchor. I just need TLS-traffic because
such traffic doesn't get filtered often.
-
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-
1563[12:25:34] <BCMM> it would create certain expectations,
though
-
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-
1565[12:25:56] <BCMM> for example, the expectation that nobody
can see which packages you're installing
-
1566[12:26:06] <lram> Yes, probably.
-
1567[12:26:33] <BCMM> it would work for your use case, but it
would imply trust in the mirrors in a way which is potentially
damaging to other users
-
1568[12:26:37] *** Quits: infernix (nix@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
-
1569[12:26:50] <repz> Hello ici, quelqu'un connaitrait une
URL exposant un tux différent toutes les X secondes / minute
s?
-
1570[12:28:03] <petn-randall> lram:
"security.debian.org" is a subdomain, but there's a
whole CDN behind it that is not under control of the DSA. So getting
a HTTPS certificate and distributing it would be a security risk and
a lot of work without any benefit.
-
1571[12:28:42] <BCMM> i can't tell if that's a somewhat
confusing request or if my french is just rusty
-
1572[12:28:43] <petn-randall> lram: So the correct mode of
operation is to ask your sysadmins to allowo you to use http.
-
1573[12:28:51] <lram> I see
-
1574[12:28:51] <petn-randall> !fr
-
1575[12:28:51] <dpkg> Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez
rejoindre le canal #debian-fr. Francophone users: for help in
french, please go to #debian-fr.
-
1576[12:28:54] <petn-randall> repz: ^^^
-
1577[12:29:10] <lram> HTTP is allowed, but it is kinda blocking
package updates.
-
1578[12:29:36] <repz> oh woops, sorry
-
1579[12:29:43] *** Joins: lucad111 (~lucad111@replaced-ip)
-
1580[12:29:44] <lram> Maybe I should just setup an HTTPS proxy
for security.debian.org
-
1581[12:29:46] <BCMM> lram: is there not any public proxy you
could use?
-
1582[12:30:00] <repz> I'll reformat my question then, does
anyone know an URL displaying a different tux every X seconds /
minutes ?
-
1583[12:30:08] <BCMM> i mean, tls traffic on 443 is tls traffic
on 443, somebody has got to offer a service to let you proxy
arbitrary stuff over "https", right?
-
1584[12:30:20] <BCMM> repz: like, a different image of tux the
penguin?
-
1585[12:30:20] <lram> BCMM: Do you know how to find such a proxy?
-
1586[12:30:34] <repz> BCMM: exactly
-
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-
1588[12:31:06] <petn-randall> lram: Talk to your sysadmins.
-
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-
1590[12:31:46] <BCMM> lram: when you talk to your sysadmins be
sure to bring up the security aspect
-
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-
1592[12:32:01] <BCMM> repz: i'm not aware of something like
that but it would be *very* easy to implement
-
1593[12:32:30] <repz> *very* ? If you manualy manage a repo of
tux images yes ..
-
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-
1595[12:32:59] <repz> I need it for my mattermost webhooks
:')
-
1596[12:33:04] *** Joins: PowaBanga_ (~PowaBanga@replaced-ip)
-
1597[12:33:31] <mint> hi i have poor sound quality in mint sylvia
-
1598[12:33:33] *** Joins: uniqdom (~mcastillo@replaced-ip)
-
1599[12:33:49] <BCMM> repz:
replaced-url
-
1600[12:33:50] <mint> but when i live boot sound qulaity is fine
-
1601[12:34:02] <mint> what might be reason
-
1602[12:34:13] <babilen> Ask Mint people?
-
1603[12:34:14] <BCMM> i.e. that repo is already managed elsewhere
for any given category of images
-
1604[12:34:14] <babilen> dpkg: mint
-
1605[12:34:15] <dpkg> Linux Mint is not Debian and is not
supported in #debian. Please use their forums at
replaced-url
-
1606[12:34:33] <mint> ok
-
1607[12:34:43] <babilen> ta
-
1608[12:34:47] <babilen> Good luck
-
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-
1610[12:36:13] <Bowl323> "debian has outdated packages"
-
1611[12:36:49] <petn-randall> !ask
-
1612[12:36:50] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For
example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian
version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I
expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if
anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all
volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get
an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org.
See <smart questions><errors>.
-
1613[12:37:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1585
-
1614[12:37:03] <petn-randall> Bowl323: Try framing a support
request similar to the above. ^^^
-
1615[12:37:05] <BCMM> Bowl323: is that an error message you got
from some software update application, or just a complaint?
-
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1617[12:37:39] <Bowl323> it's a statement
-
1618[12:37:55] <babilen> Which is neither factual nor on-topic
-
1619[12:38:03] *** Joins: Achylles (~Achylles@replaced-ip)
-
1620[12:38:11] <babilen> This is a support channel, so .. ask if
you have a problem/question you'd like help with
-
1621[12:39:50] <rant> idk if I'm chatting to an AI or a
moron
-
1622[12:39:52] <rant> heh
-
1623[12:39:59] <rant> oops wrong channel.. sorry
-
1624[12:40:05] *** Joins: AlexPortable (uid7568@replaced-ip)
-
1625[12:40:11] <babilen> …
-
1626[12:40:14] <BCMM> Bowl323: i mean, if you don't want
outdated packages, don't use debian stable
-
1627[12:40:24] <BCMM> Bowl323: it's there for people who
specifically do want them
-
1628[12:40:31] *** Joins: clownface (~dominik@replaced-ip)
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1629[12:40:49] <Bowl323> debian's great for servers
-
1630[12:40:52] <babilen> Not too surprising, given that
"stable" means "not changing"
-
1631[12:41:15] *** Joins: zomaar (~jonathan@replaced-ip)
-
1632[12:41:45] <babilen> Bowl323: That's also not true and,
frankly, doesn't get us anywhere. If you have a specific issue
you'd like to address then please ask a question or define your
problem. If not, stay quiet or take it elsewhere
-
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1635[12:42:26] <babilen> Or rather: It's true, but the
implied meaning of "[only]" isn't
-
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1637[12:42:33] <zomaar> systemd fun of the day: Lennart
frequently changes something from "warning" to
"debug", but his other tool, journalctl, actually has no
option to turn off debug messages by default
-
1638[12:43:13] *** Quits: RebelCoder (~RebelCode@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
-
1639[12:43:25] <petn-randall> "frequently"?
-
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1642[12:43:58] <zomaar> That's a word in the english
language
-
1643[12:44:15] *** Joins: snf_gh (~snf_gh@replaced-ip)
-
1644[12:44:32] <zomaar> :)
-
1645[12:44:37] <petn-randall> Last time I checked, systemd
didn't change much in stable.
-
1646[12:44:37] <zomaar> Thought I'd help you there
-
1647[12:44:58] *** Joins: morphis (~morphis@replaced-ip)
-
1648[12:46:24] <zomaar> Then, to please you sir, I will do
s/frequently/sometimes/ and hope the message becomes palpable for
you that way
-
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1651[12:47:11] <jelly> zomaar: unless there's an actionable
item there someone can help you with, best keep rants (about systemd
or other components) to yourself
-
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1654[12:47:46] <zomaar> Well I just wanted to keep it to a single
message, I am not really interested myself in debates about
constituent words either
-
1655[12:47:47] <jelly> we have #debian-offtopic for non-support,
but systemd rants are not welcome there either. File bug reports.
-
1656[12:47:48] <zomaar> Sorry
-
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1667[12:48:53] <jelly> I have 2-3 things I could rant about with
systemd in debian 8 and 9, but the only constructive thing to do is
file bugs and help fix them
-
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-
1669[12:49:17] <zomaar> On the other hand, there is an actionable
item in the advice I could give in working around it, which could
help people, but alas
-
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1672[12:49:45] <Goldi22>
replaced-url
-
1673[12:49:53] <Goldi22> can someone help with this
-
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1676[12:50:11] <jelly> zomaar: the right thing to do is file a
bug report, and list workarounds in there
-
1677[12:50:49] <jelly> after search engines index it, users can
be directed to such a documented workaround
-
1678[12:51:00] *** Joins: Tiffon (~name@replaced-ip)
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1679[12:51:16] <petn-randall> Goldi22: You'll have to ask in
#ubuntu for that.
-
1680[12:51:17] <zomaar> Well my systemd paycheck didn't
arrive last month, I am a bit short of funds at the moment
-
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1682[12:51:42] <Goldi22> but im on debian actually
-
1683[12:52:06] <babilen> zomaar: So what are you trying to
achieve here/now ?
-
1684[12:52:25] <zomaar> Well creating the amount of noise you are
creating is not part of it
-
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1686[12:52:35] <zomaar> Sorry, I'll leave
-
1687[12:52:39] <babilen> k
-
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1708[12:58:07] <BluesKaj> 'Morning
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1739[13:10:16] <sanbot> i did pulseaudio -k ; and pulseaudio
--start ;but now no sound why ?
-
1740[13:10:19] <dissidence> is there an easy way to copy paste
between xterm mouse select and say a web browser
-
1741[13:10:32] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
1742[13:11:05] <bookworm> middle mouse click
-
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1744[13:12:02] <dissidence> thats easy enough
-
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1751[13:13:40] <BCMM> looks like kwin isn't going to support
that on wayland. i don't know how i'll cope tbh.
-
1752[13:14:01] <slax0r> wayland?
-
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1756[13:14:32] <BCMM> slax0r: the replacement for X11 basically
-
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1760[13:14:50] <slax0r> oh
-
1761[13:15:01] *** Joins: nlsthzn (~nailed@replaced-ip)
-
1762[13:15:10] <slax0r> my geek mind immediatelly went to
wayland-yutani
-
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1781[13:24:59] <zomaar> I've just come to tell you that I
will stop contributing to open source
-
1782[13:25:15] *** Quits: Ericounet (~Ericounet@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
1783[13:25:17] <zomaar> I have spent the last hour and a half
filing a bug report on debian and on LXC upstream
-
1784[13:25:28] <zomaar> And then when I say something about it, I
get this kind of treatment.
-
1785[13:25:30] <zomaar> I've had it
-
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1787[13:25:38] <petn-randall> !next
-
1788[13:25:38] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
-
1789[13:25:55] <zomaar> Yes, and all you can do is repeat your
anti-social behaviours
-
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1795[13:27:09] <zomaar> You treat your employees like shit
-
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*!*@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.90.171.110
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1800[13:28:17] <petn-randall> zomaar: You've only been
ranting here, and we've told you to take it somewhere else, as
this is a support channel. Feel free to contribute again in here if
you have a request or something productive to say.
-
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1805[13:28:42] <petn-randall> zomaar: Also, last time I checked,
Debian isn't an employer.
-
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1807[13:29:11] <jelly> jguillen, chodjo, madelmoe: why is there
three of you?
-
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1815[13:30:53] <JustASlacker> well, it might not be an employer
-
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-
1817[13:31:01] <JustASlacker> it certainly creates paid work for
me
-
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1819[13:31:20] * JustASlacker needs a raise
-
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1821[13:31:35] <zomaar> Like I said, Debian will get no more
contributions from me. Goodbye.
-
1822[13:31:41] <BanHammor> debian probably employs -someone-,
right?
-
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1828[13:37:47] <petn-randall> BanHammor: 100% volunteers, AFAICS.
-
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1832[13:39:04] <petn-randall> BanHammor: There was even a big
debate as a DPL tried to get some key positions to be paid. Must be
10 years ago or more. "dunc-tank" if you want to google
it.
-
1833[13:39:21] *** Quits: LioneLL (~Pidgin@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving.)
-
1834[13:40:18] <rwx777> hey i want to use debian on desktop but
cant decide between testing and unstable. Have 1 year linux
experience and want to learn much about the os.
-
1835[13:40:38] <petn-randall> rwx777: I'd use stable, and
then add backports if you need newer software.
-
1836[13:41:11] <petn-randall> rwx777: testing/sid is not the
first choice for newcomers, since it breaks regularly due to library
transitions.
-
1837[13:42:08] <rwx777> yeah but when it breaks i have to learn
to fix it which is important for me.
-
1838[13:43:11] <jelly> BanHammor: there are however companies
employing people who spend their time to work on debian
-
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-
1840[13:43:46] <BanHammor> petn-randall, but i guess sprint
volunteers are paid...somewhat, if not actually employed.
-
1841[13:44:15] <BanHammor> rwx777, it doesn't seem like
library breakages are a common kind of bug outside bleeding edge
distributions
-
1842[13:46:04] <rwx777> ok thanks
-
1843[13:47:00] <BanHammor> if you -really- want to learn how
Linux configuration works and to do it all yourself, i think
Arch's pretty good on that front?
-
1844[13:47:26] <BanHammor> in that they don't even give you
a readymade ISO, you're supposed to build one yourself or
chroot-install it
-
1845[13:47:28] <slax0r> never did arch, but I'm fairly
certain Slackware is far better then
-
1846[13:47:45] <BanHammor> oh slackware is still alve?
-
1847[13:47:49] <slax0r> afaik yes
-
1848[13:48:11] <slax0r> although it will be slowly 2 years since
last release :(
-
1849[13:48:27] *** Quits: rwx777 (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
1850[13:49:02] <BanHammor> also, not having a decent package
manager feels like it's giving the user a ton of meaningless
work to do
-
1851[13:49:31] <slax0r> I don't feel like discussing
slackware here, but you did ask to learn how to do everything
yourself ;)
-
1852[13:50:20] *** Joins: kallesbar (~kapa@replaced-ip)
-
1853[13:50:33] *** Joins: m0j0dj0dj0 (~punk3r@replaced-ip)
-
1854[13:50:47] *** Joins: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip)
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1855[13:50:58] *** Quits: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
1856[13:51:48] *** Joins: argus- (~online@replaced-ip)
-
1857[13:52:16] *** Joins: GrimKriegor (~GrimKrieg@replaced-ip)
-
1858[13:52:18] *** Joins: nighty- (~nighty@replaced-ip)
-
1859[13:53:36] <BanHammor> regadless, we all benefit from
archwiki somewhat :)
-
1860[13:53:50] <BanHammor> (i'm done, anyone got actual
technical problems? :D)
-
1861[13:53:55] *** Joins: VLetrmx (~VLetrmx@replaced-ip)
-
1862[13:53:59] *** Quits: Uberius (~Uberius@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
1863[13:54:01] <VLetrmx> Hi
-
1864[13:54:05] <VLetrmx> debootstrap has stopped working
-
1865[13:54:06] <VLetrmx> halp
-
1866[13:54:31] <BanHammor> !doesn't work
-
1867[13:54:31] <dpkg> "Doesn't work" is a vague
statement. Does it sit on the couch all day long? Does it
procrastinate doing the dishes? Does it beg on the street for
change? Please be specific! Define 'it' and what it
isn't doing. Give us more details so we can help you without
needing to ask basic questions like "what's the error
message?". Ask me about <smart questions>, <sicco>
and <errors>.
-
1868[13:54:36] *** Joins: Uberius (~Uberius@replaced-ip)
-
1869[13:54:42] <VLetrmx> root@occident:~# debootstrap stretch hi
-
1870[13:54:43] <VLetrmx> I: Retrieving InRelease
-
1871[13:54:43] <VLetrmx> I: Retrieving Release
-
1872[13:54:43] <VLetrmx> E: Failed getting release file
replaced-url
-
1873[13:54:49] *** Joins: bites (~bites@replaced-ip)
-
1874[13:54:56] <VLetrmx> ping
replaced-url
-
1875[13:54:56] <VLetrmx> ping:
replaced-url
-
1876[13:54:57] *** Quits: argusbr (~online@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
-
1877[13:55:22] <BanHammor> please don't paste your entire
log file into IRC, let paste.debian.net handle it
-
1878[13:55:27] <VLetrmx> jesus
-
1879[13:55:37] <VLetrmx> do you have an answer to my question or
not?
-
1880[13:55:55] <rant> VLetrmx: if you cannot ping deb.debian.org
your problem has nothing at all to do with debootstrap, its a
network issue
-
1881[13:56:09] <BanHammor> does wget deb.debian.org work?
-
1882[13:56:16] <BanHammor> on the host machine, that is
-
1883[13:56:27] <VLetrmx> No it doesn't resolve, does it for
you?
-
1884[13:56:35] <BanHammor> yes
-
1885[13:56:37] <rant> yes it resolves for me
-
1886[13:56:39] <VLetrmx> Hrm
-
1887[13:56:51] <VLetrmx> is it possible I got my ip banned by
using debootstrap in my CI?
-
1888[13:57:02] <bites> try ping deb.debian.org instead. http is a
different protocol.
-
1889[13:57:18] <BanHammor> i mean, it sounds like a DNS issue to
me
-
1890[13:57:21] <VLetrmx> hrm
-
1891[13:57:22] <VLetrmx> yeah
-
1892[13:57:23] <VLetrmx> ping: deb.debian.org: No address
associated with hostname
-
1893[13:57:31] <VLetrmx> let me change name server
-
1894[13:57:32] *** Joins: n4dir (~user@replaced-ip)
-
1895[13:57:44] <BanHammor> that probably isn't affected by
protocol, try using Google DNS
-
1896[13:58:39] *** Quits: turfal (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
1897[13:58:53] *** Quits: bvdk (~bvdkfreen@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
1898[13:58:59] *** Joins: strk (~strk@replaced-ip)
-
1899[13:59:19] <strk> why is it that installing lilypond brings
in xterm (among lots of other x related things?)
-
1900[13:59:54] <petn-randall> VLetrmx: What are the contents of
your /etc/resolv.conf?
-
1901[14:00:36] <VLetrmx> weird, I can't ping anything when I
do echo 8.8.8.8 > /etc/resolv.conf :<
-
1902[14:00:45] <rant> strk: perhaps because its an X app? idk
since its not a real package
-
1903[14:01:09] *** Joins: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip)
-
1904[14:01:09] <strk> I never used it as an x app
-
1905[14:01:10] <gpunk> "nameserver 8.8.8.8"
-
1906[14:01:14] <strk> it's a commandline app
-
1907[14:01:15] <VLetrmx> oh yeah I meant that
-
1908[14:01:17] <VLetrmx> sorry
-
1909[14:01:25] <strk> and even if it was x app, why would it
depend on xterm ? no point
-
1910[14:03:09] <rant> strk: you'll need to be more specific
there is no package lilypond in stable.. what dist and package are
you talking about?
-
1911[14:03:09] <gpunk> plz ping that ip of 64 bytes from
senfter.debian.org (5.153.231.4): icmp_seq=3 ttl=51 time=117 ms
-
1912[14:03:16] <BanHammor> does installing with
--no-install-recommends still ask for xterm?
-
1913[14:03:18] *** Quits: kbeflo (~kbeflo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
1914[14:03:44] <gpunk> VLetrmx:
-
1915[14:03:53] <BanHammor> because it may be that it installs X,
which recommends something liiike xorg-utils, which recommends xterm
-
1916[14:04:15] <VLetrmx> gpunk, ok
-
1917[14:04:16] <rant> ,depends lilypond jessie
-
1918[14:04:17] <judd> Package lilypond in jessie/amd64 --
depends: guile-1.8-libs, libc6 (>= 2.14), libfontconfig1 (>=
2.11), libfreetype6 (>= 2.2.1), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1),
libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.12.0), libgmp10, libltdl7 (>= 2.4.2),
libpango-1.0-0 (>= 1.18.0), libpangoft2-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0),
libstdc++6 (>= 4.9), python, guile-1.8, lilypond-data (=
2.18.2-4), ghostscript.
-
1919[14:04:24] <VLetrmx> PING 5.153.231.4 (5.153.231.4) 56(84)
bytes of data.
-
1920[14:04:25] <VLetrmx> 64 bytes from 5.153.231.4: icmp_seq=1
ttl=52 time=9.96 ms
-
1921[14:04:34] <gpunk> hmm
-
1922[14:05:13] <gpunk> VLetrmx: others PCs on networks with same
problem ?
-
1923[14:05:18] <VLetrmx> let me check
-
1924[14:05:40] *** Quits: AMartin (~AMartin@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bye)
-
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-
1926[14:06:10] *** Joins: Madda (~Madda@replaced-ip)
-
1927[14:06:29] <VLetrmx> down on other pcs :(
-
1928[14:06:32] *** Quits: Thedarkb (~beno@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
-
1929[14:06:59] <gpunk> i'd check the router/modem
-
1930[14:07:01] <VLetrmx> have I been doing too much debootstrap?
-
1931[14:07:08] <VLetrmx> hrm
-
1932[14:07:11] *** Joins: pax (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
-
1933[14:07:17] <gpunk> can you ping other fqdn ?
-
1934[14:07:22] <VLetrmx> like what?
-
1935[14:07:24] <gpunk> like free.FR ?
-
1936[14:07:31] *** Joins: kbeflo (~kbeflo@replaced-ip)
-
1937[14:08:13] <VLetrmx> yes I can ping that
-
1938[14:09:04] <gpunk> so you might wait and ping debian in few
minutes/hours you never know
-
1939[14:09:30] <VLetrmx> damn, can't run my CI now, maybe I
should have my own debian mirror
-
1940[14:09:54] <gpunk> what is CI ?
-
1941[14:10:01] <VLetrmx> continuous integration
-
1942[14:10:32] <gpunk> ping fr.debian.org
-
1943[14:10:49] <VLetrmx> ping fr.debian.org
-
1944[14:10:49] <VLetrmx> ping: fr.debian.org: No address
associated with hostname
-
1945[14:10:54] <gpunk> arf
-
1946[14:10:59] <VLetrmx> yes
-
1947[14:11:27] <gpunk> your modem/router gets dynamic IP ?
-
1948[14:11:44] <petn-randall> I'm guessing /etc/resolv.conf
gets overwritten by dhclient.
-
1949[14:11:49] <VLetrmx> no, company network
-
1950[14:12:09] *** Joins: czesmir_ (~stefan@replaced-ip)
-
1951[14:12:24] <petn-randall> VLetrmx: Ask your sysadmin.
-
1952[14:13:24] <alkisg> You can also set a static entry to your
/etc/hosts if you want to override your dns provider
-
1953[14:13:38] <BanHammor> there's no such thing as
"debootstrapping too much", since it's
indistinguishable from any other upgrade/netinstall
-
1954[14:13:43] <gpunk> yes or install a dns server
-
1955[14:14:29] <rant> BanHammor: there are however such things as
idiotic sysadmins that may have blocked something :P
-
1956[14:14:39] <rant> or just screwed up the dns
-
1957[14:14:40] <alkisg> fr.debian.org doesn't work for me
either, while fr.debian.net does
-
1958[14:14:49] <VLetrmx> yeah fr.debian.net works
-
1959[14:15:11] *** Quits: czesmir (~stefan@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
-
1960[14:15:20] <VLetrmx> let's try another mirror
-
1961[14:15:40] <rant> you can use debootstrap with any mirror..
try mirrors.kernel.org/debian or such
-
1962[14:16:04] *** Quits: pax (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: pax)
-
1963[14:16:14] <VLetrmx> damn
-
1964[14:16:17] *** Quits: zamuro (~Samantha@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
1965[14:16:28] *** Quits: A|TARIS (~altaris@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
-
1966[14:17:23] <VLetrmx> yeah same error with multiple mirrors,
wtf
-
1967[14:17:34] *** Joins: esro (~esro@replaced-ip)
-
1968[14:17:45] <VLetrmx> hrm
-
1969[14:17:55] <BanHammor> are those mirrors ping-able and
wget-able?
-
1970[14:17:58] <VLetrmx> oh I'm still using 8.8..8
nameserver
-
1971[14:18:10] <VLetrmx> which seems totally broken
-
1972[14:18:12] <VLetrmx> let's change it back
-
1973[14:18:34] <VLetrmx> ping mirror.kernel.org
-
1974[14:18:34] <VLetrmx> ping: mirror.kernel.org: No address
associated with hostname
-
1975[14:18:35] <VLetrmx> wtf
-
1976[14:18:40] *** Quits: rozie (~rozie@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
-
1977[14:18:47] <rant> VLetrmx: mirrors not mirror
-
1978[14:18:52] <VLetrmx> oh
-
1979[14:19:04] <VLetrmx> nice
-
1980[14:19:05] <VLetrmx> works
-
1981[14:19:05] <VLetrmx> thanks
-
1982[14:19:15] <gpunk> :)
-
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-
1985[14:19:50] <oo_miguel> I am trying to install debian on a
ipv6 only system.. but it hangs at "confgiguring apt"
-
1986[14:19:52] *** Joins: luna (~luna@replaced-ip)
-
1987[14:19:54] <luna> Updating the OMV Debian server at work now
:)
-
1988[14:20:02] <oo_miguel> I can ping the selected mirror without
problems from the shell
-
1989[14:20:09] <oo_miguel> ftp2.de.debian.org
-
1990[14:20:12] <VLetrmx> Good to know there's no such thing
as too much debootstrap
-
1991[14:21:03] <VLetrmx> maybe I should run wtih
--keep-debootstrap-dir anyway
-
1992[14:21:15] <BanHammor> i'd honestly recommend multistrap
if you're making images natively, since it's more
configurable.
-
1993[14:21:31] <VLetrmx> oh
-
1994[14:22:00] <rant> yeah and an apt caching proxy if
you're fetching a lot of the same stuff
-
1995[14:22:17] <VLetrmx> hrm, or just my own mirror maybe?
-
1996[14:22:44] *** Quits: czesmir_ (~stefan@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
-
1997[14:23:01] <rant> yeah but the apt caching proxy saves you
the time of mirroring locally and having to keep it updated.. it
automatically gets updated if there is a newer package available and
only caches what you actually request rather than the whole mirror
-
1998[14:23:03] *** Joins: A|TARIS (~altaris@replaced-ip)
-
1999[14:23:14] * VLetrmx nods
-
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-
2001[14:25:24] *** Joins: Nekojimi (~jimj316@replaced-ip)
-
2002[14:25:29] <solosoft> j #freebsd
-
2003[14:25:34] <iodev> LOL!
-
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-
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-
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-
2016[14:35:24] *** Joins: blanketyblank (~start@replaced-ip)
-
2017[14:35:28] <blanketyblank> hi all
-
2018[14:36:06] <blanketyblank> anyone here manage to get gpu
passthrough working on qemu + debian guest?
-
2019[14:36:55] <towo^work> it does not depand on the guest
-
2020[14:37:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1608
-
2021[14:37:02] <towo^work> +depend
-
2022[14:37:04] <blanketyblank> i can see the initial pre-grub
loading screen on the passthrough video card (amd) but then the
video display stops being out put even though the vm eventually
start up
-
2023[14:37:07] <blanketyblank> hi towo^work
-
2024[14:37:30] *** Quits: stfel (~stfel@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
-
2025[14:37:53] <towo^work> if you passed an amd card, you need
non-free firmware installed on debian guest
-
2026[14:37:53] <t3st3r> do you have IOMMU to begin with?
-
2027[14:38:01] <blanketyblank> right. i have that much figured
out so far. mobo supports vtd and all of that and the ati cards are
fully supported. i can get gpu passthrough on a windows guest no
problem at all, just not on debian.
-
2028[14:38:07] *** Quits: Thedarkb (~beno@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
-
2029[14:38:32] <t3st3r> and then passthrough isn't exactly
easy and takes plenty of actions
-
2030[14:38:35] <towo^work> and it would be of interest, which amd
card that is
-
2031[14:39:03] <t3st3r> passing through gpus is anything but easy
:)
-
2032[14:39:18] <blanketyblank> t3st3r: indeed!
-
2033[14:39:27] *** Joins: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip)
-
2034[14:39:37] *** Quits: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
2035[14:40:00] <t3st3r> and as far as I know it only recently
started working...
-
2036[14:40:15] <t3st3r> as for firmwares, amd gpus need firmwares
anyway.
-
2037[14:40:25] <blanketyblank> well, i had esxi and xen working
on this box just fine. xen did full gpu passthrough for windows and
debian guest but the video was tearing on debian (windows guest was
fine). i'm no learning qemu which is closer to my comfort zone
as the host is now plain debian.
-
2038[14:40:42] <t3st3r> they are quite useless without firmwares,
these handle power management and so on...
-
2039[14:40:51] <blanketyblank> t3st3r: aha, so finding an ovmf
file that supports the amd card might be a good area to research?
-
2040[14:41:26] <blanketyblank> the reason that i am asking here
is that i am ONLY googling users that managed to get windows guest
gpu passthrough working on qemu
-
2041[14:41:37] <t3st3r> hmm, I've never dealt with
"ovmf files" just plain qemu VMs and passing pci-e device
-
2042[14:41:40] <blanketyblank> not a single person seems to have
managed to get gpu passthrough with a debian guest
-
2043[14:41:44] *** Joins: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip)
-
2044[14:41:54] *** Quits: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
2045[14:42:11] <blanketyblank> t3st3r: have you managed to get
gpu passthrough with a debian guest? just curious if you had any
success with that.
-
2046[14:42:19] <blanketyblank> and qemu specifically
-
2047[14:42:20] <t3st3r> eventually I've got pci detached on
host and attached on vm but that was rather complicated and then
there was some bug if I remember
-
2048[14:42:35] <t3st3r> but it probably fixed these days,
I've been lazy to try :)
-
2049[14:42:44] <blanketyblank> yeah i had to do that on xen first
manually but in latest versions it seemed to be automatic
-
2050[14:43:10] *** Joins: DieMoesch (~thomas@replaced-ip)
-
2051[14:43:29] *** Quits: Voldenet (~Voldenet@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
-
2052[14:43:31] <t3st3r> there was some bug on AMD driver side for
example, it probably not even depended if its xen or something
-
2053[14:43:58] <blanketyblank> qemu is so nice, its just an
install, virtual machine manager lets you "just" install a
windows vm with a gpu passthrough if your hardware is
"perfectly" selected and you are done.
-
2054[14:44:37] <t3st3r> well, qemu works for me most of time :)
-
2055[14:44:44] <blanketyblank> towo^work: radeon r9 280x
-
2056[14:45:09] <t3st3r> but I use just qxl or even spice to get
screen from VM
-
2057[14:45:25] <t3st3r> qxl is quite fast, at least youtube looks
okay
-
2058[14:46:13] <blanketyblank> yeah, i mean, right now i'm
forced to do that as well. but i have those two gpus and would be
nice to have a linux + windows guests use their respective gpu
passthrough cards.
-
2059[14:46:39] *** Quits: _k0ala_ (~androirc@replaced-ip##) (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client (
##replaced-url
-
2060[14:47:00] <t3st3r> and new AMD gpus are only usable in
debian with some extra adventures btw
-
2061[14:47:14] <blanketyblank> t3st3r: what do you mean?
-
2062[14:47:17] <t3st3r> due to old kernels/mesa and AMD moving to
AMDGPU kernel side overall
-
2063[14:47:36] <blanketyblank> oh you mean moving to open source
drivers?
-
2064[14:47:39] *** Quits: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
-
2065[14:47:46] <t3st3r> yes.
-
2066[14:48:07] <t3st3r> I have no idea how proprietary drivers
are working or what it takes to get passthrough
-
2067[14:48:10] *** Joins: Voldenet (~Voldenet@replaced-ip)
-
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-
2069[14:48:10] *** Joins: Voldenet (~Voldenet@replaced-ip)
-
2070[14:48:13] <blanketyblank> yeah i ran into that as well. the
r9's are supported by the open source drivers apparently just
no idea how well
-
2071[14:48:14] *** Quits: PoL_ (~PoL_@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
-
2072[14:48:20] *** Joins: PoL_ (~PoL_@replaced-ip)
-
2073[14:48:40] <t3st3r> fortunately these days there is virtually
no proprietary kernel side left. AMD killed it in favor of
opensource AMDGPU
-
2074[14:49:13] <blanketyblank> t3st3r: i don't know what xen
actually did on the host. for debian and windows, i install the amd
proprietary drives and gpu passthrough worked. on windows it worked
fine on debian there was tearing.
-
2075[14:49:14] <t3st3r> so kernel-side amdgpu module is meant to
handle both opensource MESA and proprietary catalyst-like usermode
part.
-
2076[14:49:36] <blanketyblank> right
-
2077[14:50:12] *** Quits: DammitJim (~DammitJim@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
-
2078[14:50:23] <blanketyblank> it's pretty amazing if you
think about it. never thought open source drives for any majour
video card vendor would be a thing
-
2079[14:50:46] <t3st3r> as for tearing - well, in ideal world
there should be no big difference if gpu is in vm or not,
that's whole point of passthrough.
-
2080[14:51:35] <t3st3r> amd ditched proprietary kernel and from
my experience, that's for good.
-
2081[14:51:49] <t3st3r> * proprietary kernel module.
-
2082[14:52:35] <blanketyblank> ohhh ... hmmm ... i wonder if
systemd is hosing the boot process here
-
2083[14:52:37] <t3st3r> so AMD maybe not the worst GPUs ever if
one can live with firmware blobs.
-
2084[14:53:14] <t3st3r> Nvidia is utterly proprietary, intel is
slow and new intels also need FW. What else? :)
-
2085[14:53:16] <blanketyblank> the debian guest is up but the gpu
passthrough only renders the very first bit of the boot process and
stays there, as if something got switched
-
2086[14:53:44] *** Joins: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip)
-
2087[14:54:15] <t3st3r> maybe that was some GPU driver bug
similar to what I've faced. Recently AMD fixed something
related to it.
-
2088[14:54:53] <t3st3r> but I've mostly settled down with
qxl on my vms and haven't fully followed the end of story :)
-
2089[14:55:10] <blanketyblank> yeah, the point of this rig is to
test out amd + a bunch of other things. i'm pretty sure i will
just move fully over to amd for everything soon.
-
2090[14:55:23] <blanketyblank> t3st3r: that is possible as well.
-
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-
2092[14:56:45] *** Quits: Syndicate2090 (~Syndicate@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
-
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-
2094[14:57:16] <t3st3r> and your case looks like if things got
stuck when GPU driver kicked in and attempted to switch GPU to
native mode
-
2095[14:57:49] *** Joins: maxzor (~maxzor@replaced-ip)
-
2096[14:57:58] <blanketyblank> aha, right, okay i have new set of
googlable terms now. let me see.
-
2097[14:57:59] *** Quits: Xano (~Xano@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
-
2098[14:58:06] <t3st3r> did you had firmwares, etc?
-
2099[14:58:11] *** Quits: Riyria (~Riyria@replaced-ip) (Quit: His home wifi router cost more than his car... He is...
the most interesting network tech in the world...)
-
2100[14:58:39] <blanketyblank> t3st3r: you mean add firmware? on
what, the host or guest?
-
2101[14:59:03] <t3st3r> driver attempts to init HW and upload
firmwares, if that works GPU stops being VGA and goes into what it
really is.
-
2102[14:59:17] <blanketyblank> aha on guest.
-
2103[14:59:26] <blanketyblank> no i did not install firmware on
guest
-
2104[14:59:38] <t3st3r> I guess on guest in case of passthrough.
Driver is barely aware where it happens. It "inits GPU".
-
2105[14:59:42] *** Joins: ychaouche (~ychaouche@replaced-ip)
-
2106[14:59:51] <blanketyblank> hmmm let me see
-
2107[15:00:05] <t3st3r> its up to VM and IOMMU to redirect what
follows properly :)
-
2108[15:00:13] <ychaouche> hello #debian
-
2109[15:00:16] *** Joins: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip)
-
2110[15:00:23] <t3st3r> when that fails, unhealthy things happen
:P
-
2111[15:00:37] *** Joins: Syndicate2090 (~Syndicate@replaced-ip)
-
2112[15:00:46] <blanketyblank> right right. okay that is helping
me visualize things better. thank you.
-
2113[15:01:57] <t3st3r> oh btw maybe you had tearing in debian
for very simple reason...
-
2114[15:02:18] *** Quits: P1ersson (~P1ersson@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
-
2115[15:02:21] <t3st3r> If you had no FW and so on it could be
GPU never switched to native mode and performed like VGA?
-
2116[15:02:52] <t3st3r> sure thing VGA/VESA is slow like hell,
and would be handled by something like VESA driver...
-
2117[15:03:05] *** Joins: hampusw (~Hampus@replaced-ip)
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2119[15:03:14] *** Joins: jet (~jet@replaced-ip)
-
2120[15:03:17] <t3st3r> but it kinda wild guess
-
2121[15:03:26] *** Quits: neechan (~nee-chan@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
-
2122[15:03:45] <blanketyblank> aha!
-
2123[15:03:48] <blanketyblank> you know what?
-
2124[15:03:53] <blanketyblank> that makes the most sense.
-
2125[15:04:27] *** Quits: abba (~abba@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
-
2126[15:04:29] <blanketyblank> because the windows vm had the
same teaering pattern until i install the proprietary ati drivers
-
2127[15:04:40] <blanketyblank> that is a very good instight
-
2128[15:04:50] <blanketyblank> very impressive :)
-
2129[15:04:58] <t3st3r> GPU boots in limited compatibility mode
where it can't do proper power management and looks like VGA
-
2130[15:05:38] <t3st3r> when driver takes over, it uploads
firmwares, inits power management, sets up HW and exposes that to
Linux
-
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-
2132[15:06:16] *** natten is now known as jnatten
-
2133[15:06:50] <blanketyblank> that is interesting
-
2134[15:07:06] *** Joins: uNmowed9 (~Mayu@replaced-ip)
-
2135[15:07:07] <t3st3r> this "take over" moment is most
critical point and if something can go wrong it goes wrong here most
of time :)
-
2136[15:07:10] <blanketyblank> does the open source amd driver
upload firmware as well?
-
2137[15:07:20] <t3st3r> yes
-
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-
2139[15:07:34] <blanketyblank> t3st3r: you totally opened my mind
on this. amazing. thank you kindly.
-
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-
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-
2142[15:07:45] <t3st3r> Both Radeon and AMDGPU. Its required to
deal with GPUs in native mode.
-
2143[15:08:14] <t3st3r> its a bit unfortunate but that's how
their hardware works :\
-
2144[15:08:24] *** Joins: killian99 (~killian99@replaced-ip)
-
2145[15:08:51] <blanketyblank> well, open sourcing the full amd
driver will take years
-
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-
2147[15:09:00] *** Quits: M3mphiZ (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
-
2148[15:09:20] <blanketyblank> there is a lot of encumbered
technology they depend on. it is way better than nvidia
-
2149[15:09:29] *** Joins: well_laid_lawn (~Jean-luc@replaced-ip)
-
2150[15:09:32] <blanketyblank> i first started testing gpu
passthrough on nvidia cards, known models
-
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-
2152[15:09:47] <BCMM> the driver is open source already, you can
run radeon graphics with only open-source software running on the
cpu. the firmware is just the component that runs on the GPU itself.
-
2153[15:09:51] <t3st3r> say frequency scaling is done by small
CPU and it needs firmware to be fully operational. Not like if one
can cheat that.
-
2154[15:09:55] <blanketyblank> and holy crap, nvidia drivers
check to see if they are running in a virtualized environment and
turn them selves off
-
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-
2157[15:10:19] <blanketyblank> then i read that amd open source
drivers are mostly straight forward and so far i have not really
been dissapointed
-
2158[15:10:26] <blanketyblank> t3st3r: right
-
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-
2160[15:10:39] <t3st3r> BCMM> so getting main cpu free of
untrusted code is #1, sure. Though secondary cpus can do nasty
things as well.
-
2161[15:10:40] <blanketyblank> BCMM: as i'm learning. *nod*
-
2162[15:10:49] <t3st3r> but world is imperfect and its less of
issue
-
2163[15:11:05] <BCMM> t3st3r: yes, but i don't think GPU
firmware is significantly more worrying than all the other firmware
on the system
-
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2167[15:11:39] <t3st3r> BCMM> well... some firmwares are open.
But unfortunately only few of them.
-
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-
2169[15:11:49] <BCMM> it gets disproportionate attention because
it is loaded at run-time, so people perceive it as the open-source
kernel interacting with propriatary firmware
-
2170[15:12:00] <BCMM> but that's exactly what happens every
time you write to a hard disk, for example
-
2171[15:12:25] <BCMM> the open-source kernel depending on closed
firmware for basic hw functionality, that is
-
2172[15:12:40] <t3st3r> well, ME firmware got plenty of
attention, so I know several ppl with trisquell & laptops using
coreboot/libreboot.
-
2173[15:12:55] <BCMM> (firmware running on a device which
necessarily requires DMA access, at that)
-
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-
2175[15:13:31] <BCMM> yeah, IME provides a massive vulnerability
compared to "conventional" proprietary firmware
-
2176[15:13:37] <t3st3r> HDD firmware could be nasty btw. But
fortunately Linux is so versatile and changes so fast most backdoors
would fail stupid way
-
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-
2181[15:14:16] <t3st3r> but still there was HDD FW patch to
return "different" sector, and that known to play prank on
windows users.
-
2182[15:14:45] <t3st3r> so one reinstall system and so on, and
malware resurrects anyway
-
2183[15:14:51] *** Joins: Thedarkb (~beno@replaced-ip)
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2184[15:14:54] <BCMM> basically, i would like to have a real open
hardware computer, but it's separate issue from open-source
software
-
2185[15:15:09] *** Joins: UnixMonky (~UnixMonky@replaced-ip)
-
2186[15:15:14] <t3st3r> same here :D
-
2187[15:15:21] *** Joins: turfal (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
-
2188[15:15:40] <t3st3r> managed to get smaller ARM board to boot
without blobs at all I believe. Well, bootROM excluded.
-
2189[15:15:43] <BCMM> and i see a lot of criticism of open-source
drivers for not including open firmware, which sets back support for
open-source software
-
2190[15:15:49] *** Joins: zarzar (~zarzar@replaced-ip)
-
2191[15:15:55] <BCMM> oh how i wish the raspberry Pi was more
open
-
2192[15:16:09] <t3st3r> and ofc it runs Debian :D
-
2193[15:16:39] *** Joins: P1ersson (~P1ersson@replaced-ip)
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2194[15:16:42] <BCMM> GPU access is basically less open than a
desktop pc
-
2195[15:16:43] <t3st3r> I've used Orange Pi. Once boot ROM
pikes off, its my u-boot, then my kernel, then debian :)
-
2196[15:16:57] <BCMM> how is the orange pi for gpu drivers?
-
2197[15:17:33] <t3st3r> and boot rom is small, dumb and
relatively easy to reverse and unchangeable, so can't be
updated. Nor it runs side by side.
-
2198[15:17:38] *** jet is now known as SilentJet
-
2199[15:17:41] * jelly points BCMM and t3st3r towards #debian-offtopic
-
2200[15:17:59] <BCMM> whoops, I thought i was in there. sorry!
-
2201[15:18:12] <t3st3r> <BCMM> how is the orange pi for gpu
drivers? <- poorly, its mali. Though there is WIP driver for
these.
-
2202[15:18:24] <t3st3r> but I mostly use it for networking tasks
and so on
-
2203[15:19:02] <t3st3r> jelly> point taken
-
2204[15:19:02] *** Quits: jubo2 (~juboxi@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
-
2205[15:19:25] <BCMM> hmm. what's it got over the banana pi?
-
2206[15:19:48] *** Joins: Poster (~poster@replaced-ip)
-
2207[15:20:00] <BCMM> like, if i wanted something for a
networkign application that doesn't care about the gpu, might
as well go gigabit
-
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2236[15:35:18] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o eir
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*!*@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.90.171.110 eir
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-
2244[15:38:19] <blanketyblank> t3st3r: thanks for the help. now i
know what i need to google further.
-
2245[15:38:23] <blanketyblank> thanks to everyone else also
-
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2250[15:41:26] <strk> rant: Debian GNU/Linux 8.8 (jessie) --
apt-cache policy: 500
replaced-url
-
2251[15:42:17] <t3st3r> blanketyblank> try to google about
passthrough with qemu, it MAYBE works at this point. But I'm
not sure.
-
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-
2253[15:42:33] <rant> strk: I saw nothing in those dependencies
that'd pull in anything x related as you said
-
2254[15:43:02] <t3st3r> there was also fancy channel where AMD
devs dwell, so if you'll come with latest kernel and mesa they
could probably help. But they are unlikely to deal with old SW.
-
2255[15:43:14] <strk> Depends: guile-1.8-libs, libc6 (>=
2.14), libfontconfig1 (>= 2.11), libfreetype6 (>= 2.2.1),
libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.12.0), libgmp10,
libltdl7 (>= 2.4.2), libpango-1.0-0 (>= 1.18.0),
libpangoft2-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0), libstdc++6 (>= 4.9), python,
guile-1.8, lilypond-data (= 2.18.2-4), ghostscript
-
2256[15:43:32] <strk> rant: is there any way to have full deps
tracing, to figure out ?
-
2257[15:43:34] *** Quits: DieMoesch (~thomas@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
-
2258[15:43:44] <blanketyblank> t3st3r: oh interesting. did not
know about that. sweet.
-
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-
2260[15:44:34] <strk> all I know is that `apt-get install
lilypond` ends up with "The following NEW packages will be
installed: ... x11-xserver-utils xbitmaps xdg-utils xterm ... (Need
to get 212 MB of archives.)
-
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-
2264[15:45:42] <t3st3r> forgot channel, if you do not mind
waiting a bit...
-
2265[15:47:01] <n4dir> strk: i am not sure, apt-rdepends might be
a way to trace deps
-
2266[15:47:04] <blanketyblank> not at all, any help is
appreciated.
-
2267[15:48:37] <t3st3r> seems it was #radeon unless I've got
it wrong in old irc logs
-
2268[15:49:44] <blanketyblank> aha! added to notes.
-
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-
2270[15:50:14] <strk> n4dir: apt-rdepends lilypond | grep xterm #
no hits
-
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-
2274[15:50:43] <strk> sudo apt-get install lilypond | grep xterm
# x11-utils x11-xserver-utils xbitmaps xdg-utils xterm
-
2275[15:51:56] <Zathras> brctl show does not show any bridged
interfaces much to my surprise although i defined: bridge_ports
regex wlp4s* ensp0s*
-
2276[15:52:06] <Zathras> see
replaced-url
-
2277[15:52:16] <Zathras> what is wrong in that
/etc/network/interfaces config please?
-
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2279[15:53:03] <jelly> Zathras: "wlp4s*" regex would
only match wlp4, wlp4s, wlp4ss, wlp4sss, wlp4ssss etc
-
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-
2284[15:54:11] <Zathras> jelly, thanks. I assume .* should do the
trick?
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2288[15:54:44] <jelly> I guess so, but I haven't really used
or RTFMd that syntax
-
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2292[15:55:27] <Zathras> it does not, so it seems
-
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2295[15:55:49] <jelly> Zathras: and line 28 has a $ where you
maybe just wanted to #
-
2296[15:56:21] <jelly> Zathras: man 5 bridge-utils-interfaces
-
2297[15:56:25] <Zathras> ah. yes. ty
-
2298[15:57:00] <Zathras> jelly, any idea why the netinst
installer created a vlan raw_device config? Seems over complicated
to me
-
2299[15:57:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1614
-
2300[15:57:22] <jelly> be lucky, it used to not support vlans at
all
-
2301[15:57:34] <jelly> I prefer eth0.5 syntax
-
2302[15:59:06] *** Parts: ychaouche (~ychaouche@replaced-ip) ("Konversation terminated!")
-
2303[15:59:21] <rant> strk: I believe you're doing that
backwards..
-
2304[15:59:25] <Zathras> ah. ifup -v gives an error: can't
add wlp4s0 to bridge virbr0: operation npt supported
-
2305[15:59:34] <Zathras> makes sense as that interface does not
exist
-
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-
2307[16:00:02] <rant> strk: rdpends tells you what depends on the
package you specify.. you'd want to specify one of the X
packages
-
2308[16:00:32] <Zathras> at least not in the interface
definition, but is does show up in ifconfig
-
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2311[16:01:47] <rmrfchik> why rsync won't copy new files
when syncing local dirs?
-
2312[16:02:00] <rmrfchik> new -- newly created, not updated
-
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2316[16:03:46] <Zathras> lol. It is not possible to bridge
between wireless and wired interfaces
-
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2318[16:03:48] <Zathras> joy
-
2319[16:04:06] <jelly> rmrfchik: it depends, how precisely are
you calling it?
-
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2324[16:06:15] <rmrfchik> rsync -a --verbose --progress localsrc
localdst
-
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-
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-
2327[16:06:56] <jelly> rmrfchik: both directories without / at
the end?
-
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2331[16:07:36] <rmrfchik> jelly, yes
-
2332[16:07:39] <jelly> that ought to work
-
2333[16:07:53] <jelly> which filesystem type on the source?
-
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2335[16:08:15] <rmrfchik> next I do "diff -r localsrc
localdst" and see a lot of files in localsrc
-
2336[16:08:18] <rmrfchik> ext4
-
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-
2338[16:09:08] <jelly> rmrfchik: I think you should compare
"diff -r localsrc localdst/$(basename localsrc)"
-
2339[16:09:44] <jelly> because source dir without / at the end
will copy the dir itself as well, not just its contents
-
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-
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-
2342[16:10:34] <jelly> if you want to only rsync contents, put /
at the end: rsync -Pa localsrc/ localdst/
-
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-
2344[16:11:00] <rmrfchik> jelly, / helped! thanks!
-
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2349[16:12:26] <n4dir> as i always confused the syntax with / and
no-/, i worked around by using rsync -a stuff/* (assuming that is
what i wanted).
-
2350[16:12:36] <jelly> rmrfchik: you now have two copies of
things, so remove localdst/localsrc
-
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2352[16:12:59] <jelly> n4dir: doing foo/* is probably the worst
thing to do
-
2353[16:13:04] <greycat> I almost always try to do cd /source
&& rsync -a . /dest/
-
2354[16:13:09] <jelly> especially in scripts
-
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-
2356[16:13:15] <n4dir> jelly: why that=
-
2357[16:13:22] <greycat> because it won't match dotfiles
-
2358[16:13:28] <jelly> it's very easy to mess it up
-
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2360[16:13:39] <jelly> globdots or not
-
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2362[16:14:00] <n4dir> greycat: a sure. didn't have that
problem. jelly i didn't mess anything up with it.
-
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2364[16:14:04] <greycat> It's also conceptually messy to
specify umpteen jillion source files and directories instead of one.
-
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-
2366[16:14:22] <jelly> there was more than one brouhaha where
someone's script did rm -r "${foo}"/* but foo went
undefined
-
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2368[16:14:46] <greycat> that's still bad even without the *
-
2369[16:14:53] <n4dir> i thought we were speaking of rsync, and
its specific oddities when it comes to using / or no /
-
2370[16:14:59] <jelly> it's still bad without -r
-
2371[16:15:19] <jelly> n4dir: that * is not parsed by rsync, but
your shell
-
2372[16:15:21] <Iridos> mh, no, rm or even rm -rf without a
further option just does nothing
-
2373[16:15:35] <greycat> Iridos: the / is the argument
-
2374[16:15:37] <Iridos> and rm -rf / refuses to delete
-
2375[16:15:42] <greycat> for YOU
-
2376[16:15:50] <greycat> (yeah I know, #debian, so it's GNU
rm...)
-
2377[16:15:56] <jelly> Iridos: okay, so do "foo=; rm
$foo/*" then
-
2378[16:16:00] <Iridos> for all linux systems since 2000ish using
gnu rm…
-
2379[16:16:05] <greycat> jelly: oh god, no.
-
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-
2381[16:16:24] <greycat> Iridos: not everyone is on Linux, but
fine, it's #debian. So you "win".
-
2382[16:16:26] <Iridos> the one with expansion is of course bad
-
2383[16:16:29] <Iridos> :D
-
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-
2386[16:16:50] <n4dir> well: at least you could use /* as a quick
reminder, that if you use /, you will rsync the files and folders,
and if you don't use it, you will rsync the whole directory.
Then skip it.
-
2387[16:16:57] <Iridos> yeah, I just didn't see the slash at
first… I meant rm -rf "$foo" should be ok
-
2388[16:17:24] <Iridos> but either is better than $foo/*
-
2389[16:17:25] <greycat> !break
-
2390[16:17:25] <dpkg> "This release is currently considered
``unstable''. That means that things *will* break if you
run it." (quote from old page
replaced-url
-
2391[16:17:50] <blanketyblank> t3st3r: thanks again for all of
your help. that was incredibly helpful. gotta go.
-
2392[16:17:53] <blanketyblank> later all
-
2393[16:17:54] *** Quits: blanketyblank (~start@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
-
2394[16:18:02] <jelly> /* ends up being just a bad idea
-
2395[16:18:32] <n4dir> fucking up / or no / with a huge amount of
data is also not that much fun.
-
2396[16:18:52] <jelly> good thing rsync has -n
-
2397[16:19:09] <jelly> if you're only 99% sure what
it's going to do, do a dry run
-
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-
2403[16:21:26] <n4dir> looks like rsync syncs dot files, greycat
-
2404[16:21:41] <greycat> n4dir: yes, as long as you don't
fuck it up by specifying source/* instead of source/
-
2405[16:22:03] <greycat> source/* is expanded by the SHELL and
will (normally) exclude dotfiles
-
2406[16:22:06] <n4dir> ah, sorry.
-
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2409[16:22:42] <colo-work> bash: use `shopt -s dotglob` (at your
own peril) to change that
-
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-
2411[16:23:04] <greycat> This is one of the reasons why I always
try to arrange things such that I can do "rsync -a .
/dest/". I know how that will behave, so I won't be
surprised.
-
2412[16:23:24] <n4dir> yeah, at least a workaround for the / mess
-
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-
2414[16:23:40] <colo-work> yes, that's good advise. rsync
behaves "creatively" when you miss or append a trailing /
to either src or dest
-
2415[16:23:49] <colo-work> I get that wring at least one out of
ten times
-
2416[16:23:51] <colo-work> wrong*
-
2417[16:23:52] <colo-work> even
-
2418[16:24:13] <greycat> conveniently, ./ and . behave the same
way
-
2419[16:24:15] <colo-work> also, --dry-run
-
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-
2422[16:25:14] <petn-randall> It's always good to memorize
that "foo/baz" refers to the directory "baz",
whereas "foo/baz/" refers to the contents within
"baz".
-
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2432[16:27:47] <rmrfchik> petn-randall, ls, rm and others
don't see the difference
-
2433[16:28:08] <n4dir> yup, you run into it pretty unprepared.
-
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-
2436[16:29:56] <rmrfchik> what filesystem with snapshots is
mature (reliable)? speed is not the case, I want to use it for
backups for personal files.
-
2437[16:30:11] <colo-work> just use LVM.
-
2438[16:30:14] <greycat> Do you really need file system snapshots
instead of LVM snapshots?
-
2439[16:30:23] <rmrfchik> (rsync files; snapshot per day, delete
month old snapshots)
-
2440[16:30:26] <jelly> colo-work: "creatively"?
It's documented (and it makes sense)
-
2441[16:30:34] *** Quits: super_gollum (~ich@replaced-ip) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
-
2442[16:30:47] <jelly> rmrfchik: zfs
-
2443[16:30:50] <colo-work> jelly, both very true, but I still
manage to get it wrong regularly :)
-
2444[16:30:55] <rmrfchik> I want to backup across network
-
2445[16:31:11] *** Quits: llucenic (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
-
2446[16:31:14] <greycat> AnyFS on top of LVM can use LVM
snapshots.
-
2447[16:31:19] <jelly> nod. I know enough to always use / for
dest. and know what it means for source.
-
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2451[16:31:40] <jelly> rmrfchik: zfs.
-
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2453[16:32:33] <rmrfchik> jelly, thanks, will read (compare to
btrfs actually)
-
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-
2455[16:33:05] <greycat> The only thing you need to know about
btrfs is never use btrfs. This greatly simplifies every decision
tree.
-
2456[16:33:07] <jelly> btrfs is not stable enough, and honestly
after 10 years one wonders if it will ever be
-
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2458[16:33:30] *** Quits: goatish (~textual@replaced-ip) (Quit: Hibernating)
-
2459[16:33:31] <jelly> maybe after Reiser gets out of jail
-
2460[16:33:33] * jelly hides
-
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-
2462[16:34:38] <brwoods> btrfs isn't THAT bad if you
don't use RAID 5/6
-
2463[16:34:44] <rmrfchik> hopes Reiser will have enough time [in
jail] to polish?
-
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-
2465[16:34:51] <brwoods> now RAID 5/6? that's a big nope.
-
2466[16:35:00] <greycat> Then why does someone ask us why
they're getting "no space on device" at least once a
week?
-
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2469[16:35:30] <rmrfchik> jelly, I always thought zsh in linux is
made from scratch, not ported. I was wrong?
-
2470[16:35:38] <rmrfchik> zfs*
-
2471[16:36:03] <brwoods> greycat: not sure, could be a lot of
things in the chain from btrfs to LK to debian to user.
-
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2495[16:48:51] <qman__> rmrfchik: ZFS on Linux is a port of
OpenZFS, which is what FreeBSD and other open source platforms use;
I'm unclear on the exact history of OpenZFS from the original
Sun CDDL ZFS, but it looks like a fork
-
2496[16:49:25] <qman__> so, in short, no, it was not
reimplemented from scratch
-
2497[16:49:27] <rmrfchik> qman__, ahh... sounds better, thanks
-
2498[16:50:02] <BCMM> ok something is definitely up with the
contacts app. when i select a pair of duplicated contacts, it only
counts 1 selected contact in the bar at the top
-
2499[16:50:17] <BCMM> oh sorry wrong channel
-
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2537[17:13:54] *** Quits: kbeflo (~kbeflo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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-
2542[17:17:11] <tomatoLotto> hello
-
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2545[17:18:01] *** Quits: pvoigt (~Linux@replaced-ip) (Excess Flood)
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2546[17:18:08] <alkisg> Hello
-
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2558[17:21:05] <svip> I know the Pi3 preview image is
unsupported, but I wanted to ask why it doesn't seem to engage
the Ethernet? I see no lights blinking at all.
-
2559[17:21:13] <svip> Is this a known issue?
-
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-
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2563[17:23:24] *** Quits: qba73 (~qba73@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2567[17:24:13] <petn-randall> svip:
replaced-url
-
2568[17:24:34] <petn-randall> svip: I'd check the mailing
list or the bug tracker, my guess is that it's not usable yet.
-
2569[17:24:54] <svip> petn-randall: All right.
-
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-
2572[17:27:30] <nikitasius> hi folks! need help >>
-
2573[17:27:35] <nikitasius> i have a server#1 with external IP
[10.0.0.1,10.0.0.2,10.0.0.3] and i have server#2 with external IP
[10.0.0.4,10.0.0.5,10.0.0.6]. Servers are connected localy, and
server#1 have [192.168.0.1,192.168.0.2,192.168.0.3], while server #2
have [192.168.0.4,192.168.0.5,192.168.0.6]. I need to add a route on
server #1 and/or server#2, when server#1 connect via 192.168.0.1 to
external server, it will go into the web
-
2574[17:27:37] <nikitasius> via 10.0.0.4 of #2 server. When
server#2 receive something on 10.0.0.4, it will go to server#1 on ip
192.168.0.1. Like i need to route traffic from server #1 via server
#2 into the web, using local IPs from server#1 what will be routed
via external IP from server#2.
-
2575[17:28:41] <greycat> You completely lost me at "go into
the web".
-
2576[17:29:35] <darokthar> Thus your setup looks like this:
gateway <- Server1 (is gateway for) <- Server2
-
2577[17:29:59] *** Quits: tomatoLotto (~user@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
-
2578[17:30:21] *** Quits: Huck777 (~Huck777@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
-
2579[17:30:40] *** Quits: Achylles (~Achylles@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
2580[17:30:43] <greycat> "external" must also mean
something very different from what I imagined it to mean
-
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-
2582[17:31:42] *** Quits: LioneLL (~Pidgin@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving.)
-
2583[17:32:00] <Zathras> nikitasius, probably best is to define a
textfile describing your servers interface based and describe the
desired route. Next paste that on paste.debian.net
-
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2588[17:36:11] <nikitasius> Zathras: i will try. yep.
-
2589[17:36:17] *** Joins: bbdgl (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
-
2590[17:36:47] <nikitasius> darokthar: yep in case if server #1
user local IPs to connect external resources.
-
2591[17:37:31] *** Quits: uda (uid143461@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
-
2592[17:38:01] <greycat> and you're using 10.0.0.1 to mean
"external"? do you mean "external as in outside of
the server room, but still accessible only to other workers in my
company", or is the 10.0.0.1 a complete fabrication and the
actual IP is something like 139.234.157.3?
-
2593[17:38:57] <greycat> And what does "the web" have
to do with any of it?
-
2594[17:39:04] <nikitasius> greycat: yes, 10.0.0.1 just in
example for this task. real IPs are another
-
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2600[17:40:21] <nikitasius> debian server#1, have eth0 with main
ipv4 and eth0:x pack of ipv4 (subnet). server#2 have eth0:x subnet
too with external ipv4
-
2601[17:40:22] *** Joins: Tranmi (~Tranmi@replaced-ip)
-
2602[17:40:45] <nikitasius> same time each have eth1:x for local
ips.
-
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2604[17:41:14] *** Quits: ruied (~ruied@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
-
2605[17:41:25] <nikitasius> i need: server#1 user own local ip
-> ... routing ... -> server#2 using external IP...
-
2606[17:41:29] <nikitasius> *use
-
2607[17:42:08] *** Joins: combro2k (~combro2k@replaced-ip)
-
2608[17:42:22] <greycat> Is server2 running a web server? Is that
where "the web" comes into the picture?
-
2609[17:42:39] <nikitasius> like: telnet google.com 80 -> will
connect from external IP from server #1 as default. telnet -b
192.168.0.1 google.com 80 -> will connect via 10.0.0.4 (external
IP) from 2nd server
-
2610[17:42:41] <greycat> Is server1 trying to retrieve info from
sever2's *web server*?
-
2611[17:42:53] <greycat> No, they're talking to google.com?
-
2612[17:43:02] <nikitasius> just an example
-
2613[17:43:06] <greycat> .,..
-
2614[17:43:15] <nikitasius> telnet -b - you select interface for
telnet
-
2615[17:43:17] *** Quits: tys101010 (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
2616[17:43:23] <greycat> How about you stop giving
"examples" and give the actual question.
-
2617[17:43:44] *** Joins: nvz_ (~user@replaced-ip)
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2618[17:44:00] <nikitasius> greycat: you're already got it.
lemme make it shorter
-
2619[17:44:21] *** Joins: tys101010 (~quassel@replaced-ip)
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2620[17:45:13] <greycat> You run apache2 (guessing) on server2
and curl (guessing) on server1 talking to s2's apache, but you
want apache to THINK that the connection came in through the public
IP when it actually did not? Or did you want to screw with netfilter
to make it actually *really* come in on the public IP?
-
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2623[17:46:05] *** Quits: qba73 (~qba73@replaced-ip) ()
-
2624[17:46:08] <greycat> (Why do you CARE which interface apache
thinks the client came through?)
-
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2627[17:46:32] *** Quits: darokthar (~darokthar@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
-
2628[17:47:13] <nikitasius> server#1: (all external IPs are
another) local 192.168.0.1 eth1:0; external 10.0.0.1 eth0:0.
server#2 local 192.168.0.4 eth1:0; external 10.0.0.4 eth0:0. i need
when i run on server #1 `telnet -b 192.168.0.1 google.com 80` google
will receive request FROM 10.0.0.4 IP, i.e. from 2nd server. i need
to route ALL tcp/ip traffic like this. `telnet -b <intercace>
<target> <port>` - about telnet.
-
2629[17:47:37] *** Quits: N3V3RM1^D (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: N3V3RM1^D)
-
2630[17:47:38] <greycat> So they're not talking to each
other. They are talking to google.com.
-
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-
2632[17:48:14] <nikitasius> greycat: i need to route _local_
traffic from server #1 via server #2 to any destinations.
-
2633[17:48:17] <greycat> This is sounding like a #netfilter
question.
-
2634[17:48:18] *** Quits: P1ersson (~P1ersson@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
-
2635[17:48:59] <nikitasius> it's a debian channel, i had a
hope what folks know here about network routing for debian (cause
debian on servers and i have no access to router)
-
2636[17:49:20] <combro2k> Look at transparant proxying :-)
-
2637[17:49:57] <greycat> Spoofing your outgoing traffic packets
so that your connections to google appear to come from your
coworker's machine are definitely not something you would
expect #debian to know. This is why we refer you to specialist
channels like #netfilter when the problems are too detailed and
specialized for us.
-
2638[17:50:04] <nikitasius> like [S#1 192.168.0.1] -> [S#2
192.168.0.4]--(S#2 10.0.0.4) -> inet
-
2639[17:50:11] <nikitasius> combro2k: yep+- guess yes.
-
2640[17:50:25] <nikitasius> greycat: there is no spoon and no
google.
-
2641[17:50:42] <greycat> Then you are a filthy useless liar and I
am done.
-
2642[17:51:04] <greycat> At least TWO TIMES you specifically said
you were connecting to google.com.
-
2643[17:51:23] <greycat> You lied about the IP addresses and made
them appear to be local (10.*) when you meant public.
-
2644[17:51:25] *** Quits: NoCode_ (~NoCode@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
-
2645[17:51:27] <nikitasius> in example for telnet command where
you can specify an interface to show it.
-
2646[17:51:37] <nikitasius> everyone lies.
-
2647[17:51:53] <nikitasius> combro2k: you have some tips about
this proxying on network level..?
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2649[17:52:38] *** Joins: kallesbar (~kapa@replaced-ip)
-
2650[17:52:41] <nikitasius> combro2k: when local request to
192.168.0.1 on server #1 will pass to 192.168.0.4 on server #2 and
leave server #2 via 10.0.0.4 external ip? like this route is fixed
-
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2653[17:54:07] <combro2k> nikitas:
replaced-url
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2658[17:55:35] <nikitasius> combro2k: i will look, thanks. but
here are no http. it;s all tcp/ip. i.e. any
-
2659[17:56:18] *** Quits: bentlema (~bentlema@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
-
2660[17:57:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1600
-
2661[17:57:06] <combro2k> nikitas: its a while ago since I did
that on my local network. ip -4 route then, all non 10.0.0.0/24 on
eth0 other reroute via ip -4 route add 0.0.0.0/0 to 10.0.0.4 or the
other ip 192.168.0.4
-
2662[17:57:27] *** Quits: annadane (~annadane@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
2663[17:57:28] *** Quits: BenderRodriguez (~Foxhoundz@replaced-ip) (*.net *.split)
-
2664[17:57:29] *** Quits: K1rk (~Kirk@replaced-ip) (*.net *.split)
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2668[17:58:17] <nikitasius> combro2k: i will look for route
commands :) im bad with this
-
2669[17:58:21] <combro2k> nikitas: on the other end you need to
enable ipv4 forwarding (out of my head)
-
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-
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-
2676[18:00:32] <nikitasius> yep, like i forward from eth1
(local#1) to eth1(local #2) and from eth1(local#2) to eth0 (ext #2)
-
2677[18:01:04] <nikitasius> reason i need it: i need to have more
than 256 ips per server.
-
2678[18:01:13] *** Quits: maxzor_ (~maxzor@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
2679[18:01:14] <nikitasius> (datacenter limit 256 per server)
-
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-
2682[18:01:53] <combro2k> Might also look at iptables masquerade
if it is needed as well. Yeah imagine, I use docker containers with
some other subnets
-
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-
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-
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-
2690[18:03:54] <combro2k> What you exactly want is server2 is
acting as an router for server1 right?
-
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-
2693[18:06:36] <nikitasius> combro2k: as a router for smtp
connections.
-
2694[18:06:52] *** Quits: bentlema_ (~bentlema@replaced-ip) ()
-
2695[18:06:53] <nikitasius> i have 256 external IPs on server#1
and 256 on 2nd.
-
2696[18:07:00] <nikitasius> i need to map 512 ips on server 1.
-
2697[18:07:06] <jelly> are you an ESP or just a spammer? :-)
-
2698[18:07:09] <nikitasius> solution: via loca ips
-
2699[18:07:14] <greycat> combro2k: for whatever it's worth,
it did NOT sound like he wanted to simply NAT server1 behind server2
to me, but he couldn't speak coherently, so...
-
2700[18:07:34] <jelly> who needs /23 IP addresses for outgoing
email?
-
2701[18:07:40] <nikitasius> jelly: not a spammer, it;s a server
for "marketing" for my client. legal soft $_$ etc.
-
2702[18:07:55] *** Joins: darokthar (~darokthar@replaced-ip)
-
2703[18:08:08] <nikitasius> jelly: if you send 480million mails
per month with targeting to 30 million subscribers :)
-
2704[18:08:18] <combro2k> I know more companies who use 2 blocks
of IPs ;-)
-
2705[18:08:31] <nikitasius> dont look at usa. loook at europe.
-
2706[18:08:40] <nikitasius> in europe ISP are assholes.
-
2707[18:08:49] <nikitasius> so you seriosly need to use lower
rates
-
2708[18:08:56] <nikitasius> that for USA (gmail, yahoo etc)
-
2709[18:09:06] <jelly> s/assholes/protecting their customers from
crap/
-
2710[18:09:32] <nikitasius> jelly: wish you to work one day with
big client like this. they doesn't sent crp.
-
2711[18:09:45] <nikitasius> *crap. crap - for folks who run
crached powermta etc
-
2712[18:09:48] *** Joins: esro (~esro@replaced-ip)
-
2713[18:10:09] <nikitasius> here targeting, unsubscribe. all
folks are subscribed.
-
2714[18:10:22] <nikitasius> well. we doesnt speak about details
:_
-
2715[18:10:26] <nikitasius> :)
-
2716[18:10:29] *** Joins: qeyoa (~ais@replaced-ip)
-
2717[18:10:44] <nikitasius> reason: proxy smtp traffic. thats
all.
-
2718[18:11:02] <nikitasius> cheap way. instead of buying 2nd
license for 2nd server.
-
2719[18:11:23] *** Quits: chomwitt (~chomwitt@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
-
2720[18:11:25] *** Quits: ongolaBoy (~ongolaBoy@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
-
2721[18:11:25] <combro2k> Maybe a smtp loadbalancing will suffice
then
-
2722[18:11:46] <nikitasius> combro2k: i use powermta. it balance
itself.
-
2723[18:11:55] *** Quits: _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
-
2724[18:11:55] <nikitasius> btw awesome stuff for console folks
:)
-
2725[18:12:12] <nikitasius> i need to map to this pmta 512 ips
and sleep well.
-
2726[18:12:25] *** Joins: Canucktux (~quassel@replaced-ip)
-
2727[18:12:37] <nikitasius> user mailerq too, but personally
prefer powermta
-
2728[18:13:21] <nikitasius> jelly: btw, they aren't
protecting :) you pay then, whey whitelist you and remove from all
filters.
-
2729[18:13:39] <nikitasius> thats bad.
-
2730[18:13:57] *** Quits: mos3abof (~mosab@replaced-ip) (Quit: mos3abof)
-
2731[18:14:54] *** Quits: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
-
2732[18:15:19] <combro2k> Then its a bit complex but perhaps
iptables might help, you can use destination with destination port
nat I guess to server 2 and from there to the eth0
-
2733[18:15:35] *** Quits: herbmillerjr (~herbmille@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
-
2734[18:15:54] <jelly> ie. ask in #netfilter
-
2735[18:16:08] *** Quits: MrAlexandr0 (~MrAlexand@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
-
2736[18:16:14] <combro2k> Like that to guide you further ;-)
-
2737[18:16:20] *** Quits: Zvmdyv (~Zvmdyv@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
2738[18:16:24] *** Joins: _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@replaced-ip)
-
2739[18:16:56] <combro2k> I need to catch my train here :-P
-
2740[18:17:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1594
-
2741[18:17:11] *** Quits: shannara (~Stanislas@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
-
2742[18:17:17] *** Joins: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip)
-
2743[18:17:22] *** Parts: bliv (~bliv@replaced-ip) ()
-
2744[18:17:27] *** Quits: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
2745[18:18:04] *** Quits: darokthar (~darokthar@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
2746[18:18:06] <combro2k> Its btw all about the money in the
mass/bulk mailing world :-P
-
2747[18:18:27] *** Joins: bodi (~hiexpo@replaced-ip)
-
2748[18:19:00] *** Quits: bodi (~hiexpo@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
-
2749[18:19:31] *** Joins: dasj_ (~daniel@replaced-ip)
-
2750[18:21:13] *** Quits: Krennic (~Krennic@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
2751[18:21:54] <jelly> which is another reason I'm not all
too ready to help such a customer for free
-
2752[18:22:00] *** Joins: digitalnomad91 (~digitalno@replaced-ip)
-
2753[18:23:12] <combro2k> ;-) I can imagine, I give them a bit of
direction and thats it. Filtering so called bulk mail which unwanted
is already my daily job :-P
-
2754[18:23:46] *** Quits: luchus (~luchus@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
2755[18:24:20] *** Joins: darokthar (~darokthar@replaced-ip)
-
2756[18:24:28] *** Quits: jradd (~jradd@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
-
2757[18:25:28] <combro2k> Working at an ISP webhosting company a
pack of servers and daily basis we got complaints about spam going
through our spamfilters so hate unwanted bulk mails ;-)
-
2758[18:26:13] *** Quits: Thedarkb (~beno@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
-
2759[18:26:48] *** Joins: tpanarch1st (~tpanarch1@replaced-ip)
-
2760[18:27:05] *** Quits: a_l_b (~a_l_b@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
-
2761[18:27:11] *** Joins: a_l_b (~a_l_b@replaced-ip)
-
2762[18:27:46] *** Joins: JustASlacker (~JustASlac@replaced-ip)
-
2763[18:29:12] <jelly> I don't have anything against opt-in
mails sent once every two days, but snowshoeing on a zillion
outbound IPs is a red flag
-
2764[18:29:14] *** Quits: Quantumcross (~weechat@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.0.1)
-
2765[18:31:00] *** Joins: circ-user-a60eK (~circuser-@replaced-ip)
-
2766[18:31:49] <nikitasius> jelly: you know, im helping folks
here for free. when i know where to help (nginx for example).
seriosly - i dont care what people do: run a porn website or a blog.
-
2767[18:31:55] <nikitasius> but i helped both.
-
2768[18:32:23] *** Joins: Mazhive (~Mazhive@replaced-ip)
-
2769[18:32:25] <jelly> nothing against porn sites, either
-
2770[18:32:38] *** Quits: snatcher (~user@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
-
2771[18:32:40] *** Joins: Quantumcross (~weechat@replaced-ip)
-
2772[18:32:55] <combro2k> Depends if multiple clients are using
the servers, isolating ips for domains. If it is still for one
client either its an big company, think of A large group of people
it might be safer to use a block of IPs but yes it could be a red
flag. But an ISP who runs multiple IPs and got an abuse submission
might take down the server itself
-
2773[18:32:56] <nikitasius> i was thinking what you're
from.. you know, people with cross. blablblajesus, spam is a sin,
porn is a sin etc.
-
2774[18:32:57] *** Joins: ilCyx86_64 (~ilCyx86_6@replaced-ip)
-
2775[18:33:02] *** Quits: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
-
2776[18:33:09] *** Joins: darkhanb (~textual@replaced-ip)
-
2777[18:33:10] *** Quits: dreamon_ (~dreamon@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
-
2778[18:33:44] <nikitasius> combro2k: you need to respect rates
(unique per ISP), have 2 DKIM + dmarc + spf, have tonns of tags in
mail and well made mails.
-
2779[18:34:08] *** Joins: LioneLL (~Pidgin@replaced-ip)
-
2780[18:34:47] <greycat> So... his actual question was "I
have two outgoing mail servers s1 and s2, and s1 has been
blacklisted, so I want to relay all of my outgoing spam through
s2"?
-
2781[18:35:07] <nikitasius> combro2k: i started to work with them
in aug'2017 and im learning this bulk-mail world step by step.
cause i had exp in mail configuratuon, i made then 10/10. But with
bulk rates. all you need - respect rates.
-
2782[18:35:10] <combro2k> Im pretty easy with that, if an ISP put
a lot of of unwanted BULK mail I report them to the ISP and to the
Dutch opta, and they will give an fine to them as high as the roof
and they will feel it
-
2783[18:35:10] *** Quits: Serpent7776 (~Serpent77@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
-
2784[18:35:21] <greycat> Why involve netfilter at all? Just relay
the mail at the MTA level.
-
2785[18:35:23] *** Quits: Tiffon (~name@replaced-ip) (Quit: exit)
-
2786[18:35:56] <nikitasius> greycat: nope, i need to proxy
traffic from local ips from server#1 via external ips server#2
(guess with using local ips from serve#2). but nvm i got some ideas
here, i will google them better.
-
2787[18:36:21] <nikitasius> greycat: linux routes pain in my ass,
i never worked with them well and a lot.
-
2788[18:36:23] <nikitasius> :)
-
2789[18:36:30] <combro2k> Respect rates indeed and respect people
who doesnt like it ;-)
-
2790[18:36:58] <nikitasius> combro2k: when you unsubsribe, you
removed form list.
-
2791[18:37:14] <nikitasius> but people love IT news, shopping
news etc.
-
2792[18:37:31] *** Quits: MarioBranco (~MarioBran@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
-
2793[18:37:35] <nikitasius> i love to read sometimes new offers
(hardwar) when they are really nice.
-
2794[18:37:44] <jelly> greycat: mostly because MTA level is
horribly slow at 20M messages per day
-
2795[18:38:00] <combro2k> Initial subscription? Checkbox when you
signup, opt-in that what I look for ;-)
-
2796[18:38:02] <nikitasius> 20mil per day..? emm...
-
2797[18:38:25] <jelly> nikitasius: 480M / month, you said
-
2798[18:38:25] <nikitasius> well... i can say: 10,000 mails per
IP per ISP.
-
2799[18:38:30] <nikitasius> ahh yes.
-
2800[18:38:45] <nikitasius> i mean you can have more, but
currently they have 480 on old scheme
-
2801[18:39:09] <nikitasius> speed depends of your `status` and
how ips are warmed.
-
2802[18:39:26] <nikitasius> i.e. 1 week, 2 weeks to get +-best
ratio
-
2803[18:39:35] <jelly> nikitasius: and your software doesn't
do horizontal scaling on multiple servers?
-
2804[18:39:35] *** Quits: a_l_b (~a_l_b@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
-
2805[18:39:46] *** Joins: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip)
-
2806[18:39:52] <nikitasius> jelly: do. but you need to instal it
+ pay licence
-
2807[18:39:56] *** Quits: HarveyPwca (~HarveyPwc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
-
2808[18:39:58] <nikitasius> i.e. core + nodes
-
2809[18:40:01] <nikitasius> core can be a node
-
2810[18:40:05] <nikitasius> for core..
-
2811[18:40:08] <jelly> nikitasius: I can solve this for just 25%
of that price :-D
-
2812[18:40:22] *** Quits: uniqdom (~mcastillo@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
-
2813[18:40:24] <nikitasius> jelly: i pay 1 dollar for it. im a
poor guy.
-
2814[18:40:29] <jelly> riiight
-
2815[18:40:40] <nikitasius> i can send you 25 cents via paypal,
but payoal takes 3 bucks for..
-
2816[18:40:49] *** Joins: herbmillerjr (~herbmille@replaced-ip)
-
2817[18:40:55] *** Joins: rsx (~rsx@replaced-ip)
-
2818[18:41:21] <nikitasius> jelly: seriosly no worry, i will
google. today 14 feb. im going to have a nice dinner in a restorant
with my wife. so work - for tomorrow only :)
-
2819[18:41:34] *** Joins: Thedarkb (~beno@replaced-ip)
-
2820[18:41:35] <jelly> nikitasius: ok, then spend another $1 for
the second server and you're done
-
2821[18:41:49] <greycat> Also, I feel vindicated that my guess of
"Spoofing your outgoing traffic packets so that your
connections to google appear to come from your coworker's
machine" was about 95% correct.
-
2822[18:42:00] *** Joins: shtrb (~shtrb@replaced-ip)
-
2823[18:42:02] <combro2k> Have a good time ;-)
-
2824[18:42:05] <nikitasius> jelly: software price ~15k$ per
licence/year. depends. i cant share real prices here. But google
will confirm.
-
2825[18:42:12] *** Joins: dpl (~dpl@replaced-ip)
-
2826[18:42:13] *** Quits: dpl (~dpl@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
-
2827[18:42:24] <nikitasius> combro2k: thanks :)
-
2828[18:42:38] *** Joins: sh00p (~z@replaced-ip)
-
2829[18:42:47] *** Joins: tugrik (~username@replaced-ip)
-
2830[18:42:59] * jelly totally okay with $3750 for a set of iptables
rules
-
2831[18:43:20] <jelly> if you PROMISE your mail is opt-in only
:-)
-
2832[18:43:20] *** Quits: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
2833[18:43:21] *** Joins: Xano (~Xano@replaced-ip)
-
2834[18:43:52] <nikitasius> jelly: you;re wrong with debian
lifestyle. guess you're on windows here >>
-
2835[18:44:07] <leachim6> ^OOOOH BURN
-
2836[18:44:23] *** Joins: Darcidride_ (~Darcidrid@replaced-ip)
-
2837[18:44:23] *** Quits: darokthar (~darokthar@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
2838[18:44:24] <nikitasius> im with weechat 1.0.1
\m/(>.<)\m/ here :D
-
2839[18:44:38] <leachim6> woah, your weechat is old man
-
2840[18:44:45] *** Joins: hypn0 (~h@replaced-ip)
-
2841[18:44:50] <nikitasius> leachim6: debian loveold
-
2842[18:45:00] <leachim6> WeeChat 2.1-dev (git:
v2.0-83-g257d5fe15) [compiled on Jan 16 2018 00:09:47]
-
2843[18:45:07] *** Quits: sleepingdeforest (~sleepingf@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
-
2844[18:45:11] <greycat> ,v weechat
-
2845[18:45:12] <judd> Package: weechat on amd64 -- wheezy:
0.3.8-1+deb7u1; wheezy-security: 0.3.8-1+deb7u3; wheezy-backports:
0.4.3-2~bpo70+1; wheezy-backports: 1.0.1-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1;
jessie-security: 1.0.1-1+deb8u1; jessie: 1.0.1-1+deb8u2;
jessie-backports: 1.6-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1; stretch: 1.6-1+deb9u2; sid:
1.9-1; buster: 1.9.1-1; sid: 1.9.1-1
-
2846[18:45:24] <combro2k> Debian lifestyle didn't know there
was one :-P then its an DIY project :-P
-
2847[18:45:25] <brwoods> you could say, it's a wee out of
date
-
2848[18:45:31] <leachim6> ^huehuehue
-
2849[18:45:42] <leachim6> well just like most things on *nix
-
2850[18:45:49] <shtrb> I just got an amazing notification with
plasma (KDE) that I need to charge my device (connected with a
wireless dongle) and I wish to understand how that works, anyone
have ideas where to search (couldn't find a low charged battery
and too lazy to build a joultheif)
-
2851[18:45:50] <leachim6> if it works for you, then I have no
complaints
-
2852[18:46:11] <leachim6> shtrb: there's a part of the
bluetooth spec that does it, bluez-tools provides it
-
2853[18:46:12] *** Quits: jguillen (~jguillen@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
-
2854[18:46:24] <shtrb> leachim6, thanks
-
2855[18:46:24] *** Joins: Nudist69-M (~nnend@replaced-ip)
-
2856[18:46:44] <leachim6> ^ np :D
-
2857[18:46:52] <nikitasius> shtrb: i hhave amazing notifications
whiteonblack when debian8 didnt fond wifi drivers :)
-
2858[18:46:54] *** Joins: darokthar (~darokthar@replaced-ip)
-
2859[18:47:06] <leachim6> probably a nonfree driver :/
-
2860[18:47:12] <leachim6> unfortuantely it's still a huge
problem with wifi
-
2861[18:47:23] *** Quits: turfal (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: turfal)
-
2862[18:47:26] * leachim6 shakes his fist at the sky and yells
BROADCOMMMMM
-
2863[18:47:30] <shtrb> stuff not working is normal, but when you
see a feature you have never seen it is fun
-
2864[18:47:31] <combro2k> So you are running at wheezy or
squeeze.. poor you :-p
-
2865[18:47:32] <nikitasius> btw debian 8 had libpam mysql (or
something like that) from 2006 year, while on github new version
what finally included into debian 9 (what support sha1)
-
2866[18:47:47] * shtrb fundle bcm3XXX
-
2867[18:47:48] <jelly> most of the drivers are free; the firmware
needed is usually not
-
2868[18:48:06] <nikitasius> leachim6: with my laptop i was able
to install debian8 with disabling wifi in bios :)
-
2869[18:48:12] *** Joins: siiky (~siiky@replaced-ip)
-
2870[18:48:14] <nikitasius> cause it fucked installation:)
-
2871[18:48:26] <nikitasius> after i enabled and installed
drivers, yep.
-
2872[18:48:35] *** Quits: Gaaab (~Gaaab@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
2873[18:48:39] <shtrb> no wifi for debian 8 :)
-
2874[18:48:47] <nikitasius> :P
-
2875[18:48:59] <nikitasius> debian8 & xfce <3
-
2876[18:49:07] <combro2k> Wifi is so old fasion :-P cable is much
better :-D
-
2877[18:49:07] <nikitasius> need a new laptop with 9th on it.
-
2878[18:49:21] <shtrb> nikitasius, wait for the new smart laptop
charges no kernel driver and closed source - that is going to be fun
-
2879[18:49:28] <nikitasius> combro2k: my dog already eated
powersupply cord so i repaired it and lost 10cm :)
-
2880[18:49:43] <shtrb> #debian-offtopic maybe ?
-
2881[18:49:47] <leachim6> nikitasius: it is worth mentioning the
debian nonfree firmware CD
-
2882[18:49:55] <leachim6> it's not officially supported
which is why you won't see docs on it here
-
2883[18:49:59] <nikitasius> shtrb: yep, it's a hardware
problems (dog)
-
2884[18:50:10] <combro2k> Dog eating stuff, better give him some
real food :-P haha
-
2885[18:50:14] <leachim6> it's kind of in limbo because
Debian does not officially support nonfree firmware, but it is a
community project
-
2886[18:50:26] <leachim6> not even sure what the policy on
sharing that info is here
-
2887[18:50:33] *** Quits: arsr (~arsr@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
-
2888[18:50:35] <jelly> !firmware images
-
2889[18:50:35] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD
installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are
available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See
replaced-url
-
2890[18:50:51] <leachim6> ok cool thanks jelly, so I provided the
correct amount of disclaimers, heh
-
2891[18:50:58] *** Joins: jradd (~jradd@replaced-ip)
-
2892[18:51:04] <nikitasius> i have no problems with wifi. all is
ok. i was here just for asking about prpxy between servers.
-
2893[18:51:24] *** Joins: LtL (~ltl@replaced-ip)
-
2894[18:51:26] <leachim6> oh cool, what kind of proxy?
-
2895[18:51:33] <leachim6> ssh proxy, vpn, SQUID proxy?
-
2896[18:51:34] *** Quits: darokthar (~darokthar@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
2897[18:51:43] *** Quits: Nekojimi (~jimj316@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
-
2898[18:51:48] <shtrb> facebook proxy :P
-
2899[18:51:49] *** Joins: kliq (~cliq@replaced-ip)
-
2900[18:52:01] <shtrb> aka vampire vpn
-
2901[18:52:34] <combro2k> I think thats the sales mentality :-P
come with you want coffee, go home with a full blown diner :-P
-
2902[18:52:48] <nikitasius> leachim6: on network level. i,e, when
you user local 192.168.0.1 local interface on server#1, it will
route to 192.168.0.5 on server#2 and escape via external IP on
server #2.
-
2903[18:52:50] *** Joins: rozie (~rozie@replaced-ip)
-
2904[18:52:53] <nikitasius> *use
-
2905[18:53:15] <leachim6> sounds like you want a site-to-site VPN
with a bit of iptables magic
-
2906[18:53:26] <shtrb> or good old openvpn + default gw
-
2907[18:53:33] <leachim6> ^much simpler solution
-
2908[18:53:39] <nikitasius> like `telnet -b 192.168.0.1
google.com 80` on serve #1, it will leave from server#2 and return
to server#2 and will be returned to S#1.
-
2909[18:53:52] *** Joins: darokthar (~darokthar@replaced-ip)
-
2910[18:53:55] <jelly> nikitasius: you need a way to have a MTA
running on one machine output some messages using IP addresses bound
to another machine. It might not have to be a proxy.
-
2911[18:53:56] <nikitasius> leachim6: i will use ovh vrack. so i
have no access to router.
-
2912[18:54:00] *** Quits: darokthar (~darokthar@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
-
2913[18:54:02] <JustASlacker> ssh -D 8080 server1
-
2914[18:54:04] <shtrb> nikitasius, you can also just use ssh
tunnels
-
2915[18:54:11] <JustASlacker> then use port 8080 as socks proxy
-
2916[18:54:16] <leachim6> sshtunnels are the simplest
-
2917[18:54:17] <JustASlacker> done
-
2918[18:54:34] <leachim6> plus you can setup ssh to use a
persistent socket in the config
-
2919[18:54:39] *** Joins: annadane (~annadane@replaced-ip)
-
2920[18:54:45] *** Joins: darokthar (~darokthar@replaced-ip)
-
2921[18:54:52] <leachim6> go ahead and `man ssh` I'll wait
-
2922[18:54:57] <nikitasius> leachim6: im worry about CPU usage
-
2923[18:55:02] <leachim6> nikitasius: I wouldn't
-
2924[18:55:10] <combro2k> Ssh is not hungry
-
2925[18:55:11] <nikitasius> if you need to encrypt 1Gbit?)
-
2926[18:55:16] <leachim6> nikitasius: works fine with a raspberry
pi as the server
-
2927[18:55:26] <leachim6> if you have a VPS/Server at OVH it
would be totally fine
-
2928[18:55:28] *** Joins: pax (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
-
2929[18:55:33] *** Joins: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip)
-
2930[18:55:44] *** Quits: oish_ (~charlie@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
2931[18:55:47] <leachim6> there's also sshuttle which
automates a but of this
-
2932[18:55:53] *** Quits: jradd (~jradd@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
-
2933[18:56:01] <nikitasius> but ssh tunnels.. normally you need
to setup ports with.
-
2934[18:56:11] <leachim6> ,v sshuttle
-
2935[18:56:12] <judd> Package: sshuttle on amd64 -- jessie:
0.54-2; wheezy: 0.54-2; stretch: 0.78.1-1; buster: 0.78.3-1; sid:
0.78.3-1
-
2936[18:56:14] <darokthar> Hi, i still have the flickering screen
problems with an intel i915 graphics card and debian stretch. This
seems to be a kernel bug. Has anyone had any settings which might
work around this?
-
2937[18:56:18] <shtrb> add sslh to the party to hide the ssh
tunnels to make it even more fun
-
2938[18:56:19] <nikitasius> i mean: all connections to any port
on local ip..
-
2939[18:56:25] <jelly> ssh socks proxy adds a lot of latency, you
might try it as a proof of concept but probably not more
-
2940[18:56:30] <leachim6> OpenSSH is magical
-
2941[18:56:40] <leachim6> look at the "VPN" section of
the OpenSSH manpage
-
2942[18:57:03] <leachim6> I sat down one day and read the whole
manpage and found out that 90% of the stuff I was using external
tools for was just built in
-
2943[18:57:35] <shtrb> As if the people who built and maintaine
ssh are into network and IT ..
-
2944[18:57:36] <nikitasius> about latency it's a critical
too.
-
2945[18:57:38] *** Quits: Tom-_ (~tomg@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
-
2946[18:58:00] <leachim6> nikitasius: well in that case
you'll want to keep the layers of your onion to a minimum
-
2947[18:58:01] <nikitasius> thanks for sshuttle tip. but i will
look at iptable routes and other network stuff from system
-
2948[18:58:03] <jelly> with your amount of traffic I
wouldn't seriously consider it
-
2949[18:58:07] <leachim6> VPN or ssh tunnel are your best bet
-
2950[18:58:33] <leachim6> nikitasius: what service do you have
with OVH?
-
2951[18:58:41] <leachim6> nikitasius: just a VPS or a dedicated
server?
-
2952[18:58:50] <jelly> just route the traffic to another machine
and use iptables there to re-munge source IPs
-
2953[18:59:02] <leachim6> ^^^ jelly has the best/simplest
solution
-
2954[18:59:15] <nikitasius> leachim6: dedicated with vrack (so i
have my own local network)
-
2955[18:59:17] <nikitasius> :0
-
2956[18:59:19] <nikitasius> :)
-
2957[18:59:29] *** Quits: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
-
2958[18:59:34] <jelly> that's not a solution, that's
just a general idea
-
2959[18:59:40] <leachim6> nikitasius: depending on how rubust you
want this, consider running a vrouter (like VyOS or Pfsense) in a
virtual machine on your host
-
2960[18:59:44] <greycat> I disagree that it's
"best". "Best" would be an epiphany that sending
bulk email is evil and you should stop.
-
2961[18:59:47] <leachim6> that's outside the scope of this
channel
-
2962[18:59:51] *** Quits: finuit (~asxdfasdf@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
-
2963[18:59:57] *** Quits: pax (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
-
2964[18:59:58] <leachim6> greycat: someone just got
reply-all'd :P
-
2965[18:59:59] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
-
2966[19:00:15] *** Quits: kocubinski (~binski@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
2967[19:00:33] *** Joins: jradd (~jradd@replaced-ip)
-
2968[19:00:57] <nikitasius> leachim6: well, simple debian.
iptables. etc. no special stuff like Pfsense
-
2969[19:01:15] <leachim6> yeah that's likely the best
solution for what you want
-
2970[19:01:21] <nikitasius> gonna go to resto, have a nice 14 feb
with your gf or pc :)
-
2971[19:01:30] <leachim6> nikitasius: likewise :)
-
2972[19:01:32] <jelly> #Netfilter will probably have a better
idea
-
2973[19:01:43] <leachim6> iptables/NF is also magical
-
2974[19:01:48] <nikitasius> jelly: yep they told to google
`arbitrary IP tunnel with corresponding (routing) rules`
-
2975[19:01:52] <nikitasius> i will check results later.
-
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-
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-
2979[19:02:11] *** Joins: gagrio (~gagrio@replaced-ip)
-
2980[19:02:13] <leachim6> I fscking love Linux you guys...
-
2981[19:02:23] <leachim6> there's always a tool for that
"weird" thing you thought you were the only use-case for
-
2982[19:02:51] *** Joins: dayten (~gnoid@replaced-ip)
-
2983[19:03:03] <jelly> you're not that weird
-
2984[19:03:10] *** Joins: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip)
-
2985[19:03:14] <combro2k> Linux is just fun :-P
-
2986[19:03:15] <annadane> everybody is weird
-
2987[19:03:19] <leachim6> that's the nicest thing anyone has
ever said about me :')
-
2988[19:03:20] <nikitasius> linux is nice yes, and its free
-
2989[19:03:32] <nikitasius> soft if like sex, it's good when
it's free :)
-
2990[19:03:33] *** Quits: Quatroking (~Quatrokin@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
-
2991[19:03:36] <leachim6> I'm so lucky I get to Linux all
day for money
-
2992[19:03:58] <greycat> annadane: for context, bulk email sender
with an intentional X-Y problem intended to hide the fact that he
was asking for help in sending bulk email.
-
2993[19:04:04] <combro2k> We have over 100 servers with Linux so
yeah its fun
-
2994[19:04:30] <shtrb> just bare kernel without anything else ?
-
2995[19:04:35] *** Quits: darokthar (~darokthar@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
2996[19:04:52] <leachim6> s,Linux,GNU/Linux,g
-
2997[19:05:01] <shtrb> That's the spirit
-
2998[19:05:01] <jelly> not sure if intentional, xy seldom is
-
2999[19:05:11] <JustASlacker> systemD/Linux
-
3000[19:05:17] <greycat> Well OK, he could also have been
unintelligent.
-
3001[19:05:22] <leachim6> hey guy, I like systemD alright
-
3002[19:05:33] <combro2k> SystemD? My favorite :-P
-
3003[19:05:40] <shtrb> JustASlacker, the project that shall not
be named
-
3004[19:05:43] <leachim6> is it ideal? no. but it's not the
trasheap the hivemind mob-mentality BS thinks it is
-
3005[19:05:46] <JustASlacker> :D
-
3006[19:05:51] <leachim6> shtrb: we're talking about NameD
now?
-
3007[19:05:52] *** Joins: jnavila (~jnavila@replaced-ip)
-
3008[19:06:06] <shtrb> ,v named
-
3009[19:06:08] <judd> No package named 'named' was
found in amd64.
-
3010[19:06:11] <jelly> bind9
-
3011[19:06:15] <JustASlacker> is it actually SystemD ? or
systemd? systemD ?
-
3012[19:06:17] <leachim6> ,v bind9-server
-
3013[19:06:18] *** Joins: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip)
-
3014[19:06:18] <judd> No package named 'bind9-server'
was found in amd64.
-
3015[19:06:21] <leachim6> ,v bind9
-
3016[19:06:22] <greycat> bind9
-
3017[19:06:23] <judd> Package: bind9 on amd64 -- wheezy:
1:9.8.4.dfsg.P1-6+nmu2+deb7u10; wheezy-security:
1:9.8.4.dfsg.P1-6+nmu2+deb7u19; wheezy-backports:
1:9.9.5.dfsg-4~bpo70+1; jessie: 1:9.9.5.dfsg-9+deb8u14;
jessie-updates: 1:9.9.5.dfsg-9+deb8u14; jessie-proposed-updates:
1:9.9.5.dfsg-9+deb8u15; jessie-security: 1:9.9.5.dfsg-9+deb8u15;
stretch: 1:9.10.3.dfsg.P4-12.3+deb9u3; stretch-updates:
-
3018[19:06:24] <judd> 1:9.10.3.dfsg.P4-12.3+deb9u3;
stretch-proposed-updates: 1:9.10.3.dfsg.P4-12.3+deb9u4;
stretch-security: 1:9.10.3.dfsg.P4-12.3+deb9u4; stretch-backports:
1:9.11.2.P1-1~bpo9+1; buster: 1:9.11.2.P1-1; sid: 1:9.11.2.P1-1
-
3019[19:06:25] <leachim6> there we go
-
3020[19:06:28] *** Quits: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
3021[19:06:37] <greycat> so many stretch-*
-
3022[19:06:47] <JustASlacker> uh
-
3023[19:06:50] <shtrb> leachim6, the project that shall not be
named, is the 50ist project that shall not be used
-
3024[19:06:52] <leachim6> bind9 has so many patches it's
silly
-
3025[19:06:57] <JustASlacker> I need to update our dns servers
-__
-
3026[19:06:59] <JustASlacker> -_-
-
3027[19:07:04] <leachim6> JustASlacker: my heart goes out to you
brother
-
3028[19:07:08] <combro2k> Fun job :-P
-
3029[19:07:09] <jelly> s-p-o might mean it's not just a
security fix
-
3030[19:07:13] <JustASlacker> nah, its cools
-
3031[19:07:19] <leachim6> my CORP runs like 10million records on
nameD
-
3032[19:07:19] *** Joins: HarveyPwca (~HarveyPwc@replaced-ip)
-
3033[19:07:22] <leachim6> that's not an exaggeration
-
3034[19:07:27] *** Joins: darokthar (~darokthar@replaced-ip)
-
3035[19:07:28] <shtrb> the project that shall not be named
probably have a dns server implementation
-
3036[19:07:33] <JustASlacker> already at 9.9.11
-
3037[19:07:51] <leachim6> shtrb: VoldemortD ?
-
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-
3043[19:09:54] <greycat> Um... what happened to bind 9.10.x?
-
3044[19:09:55] *** Joins: deicide- (~deicide-@replaced-ip)
-
3045[19:09:57] <annadane> well it should anyway just because
it's a de facto standard at this point and should fulfill
common use cases
-
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-
3047[19:10:23] <shtrb> leachim6, The quest for ultimate power
involve disposing all previous workers
-
3048[19:10:33] <annadane> let's not start this again
-
3049[19:10:44] *** Quits: herbmillerjr (~herbmille@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
-
3050[19:10:55] <shtrb> voldamart ban was lifted already :)
-
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-
3063[19:18:26] *** Quits: inaki (~inaki@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
-
3064[19:19:34] <leachim6> I can't hear you over this
Debian/HURD install
-
3065[19:19:39] <leachim6> /s
-
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-
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-
3068[19:20:08] <shtrb> ,v hurd
-
3069[19:20:09] <judd> No package named 'hurd' was found
in amd64.
-
3070[19:20:12] <shtrb> :P
-
3071[19:20:27] <leachim6>
replaced-url
-
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-
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-
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-
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-
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-
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-
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-
3085[19:23:15] <leachim6> oh, you were takin' the piss :P
-
3086[19:23:33] <darokthar> Is there a repo for stretch with a
more recent kernel? Maybe this will get rid of the screen turning on
and off.
-
3087[19:23:44] <towo`> backports
-
3088[19:23:54] <greycat> !stretch backports
-
3089[19:23:54] <dpkg> Some packages intended for Buster (Debian
10) but recompiled for use with "Stretch" (9.x) can be
found in the "stretch-backports" repository. See
replaced-url
-
3090[19:24:10] <leachim6> darokthar: many folks I know that run
Debian as their main workstations regularly run Testing/Unstable
-
3091[19:24:20] *** Joins: AimHere (~David@replaced-ip)
-
3092[19:24:24] <leachim6> that's anecodtal though,
don't see that as a recommendation
-
3093[19:24:38] <leachim6> s/anecodtal/anecdotal
-
3094[19:25:14] <darokthar> leachim6: I have done that in the
past. But I ran into apt-get upgrades not working. Which basically
is annoying if you just want to work.
-
3095[19:25:25] <leachim6> I hear you on that, 100^
-
3096[19:25:27] <leachim6> 100%
-
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-
3098[19:25:47] *** Joins: inaki (~inaki@replaced-ip)
-
3099[19:27:25] <greycat> darokthar: just to cover the basics
here, did you install all relevant (including nonfree) firmware
packages? No firmware error messages in dmesg?
-
3100[19:27:52] <darokthar> Yes I even enabled the intel
microcodes.
-
3101[19:27:54] *** Joins: Achylles (~Achylles@replaced-ip)
-
3102[19:27:57] <darokthar> No success.
-
3103[19:28:05] *** Quits: jnavila (~jnavila@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
-
3104[19:28:12] <shtrb> darokthar, does it happen with plasma ?
-
3105[19:28:17] <jelly> darokthar: is it a laptop or a desktop?
-
3106[19:28:38] *** Quits: Firztspawn (~firztspaw@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
-
3107[19:28:40] <shtrb> *during plasma usage (kDE) , there was an
old bug that had been fixed in xserver
-
3108[19:28:59] *** Quits: gildarts_ (gildarts@replaced-ip) (Max SendQ exceeded)
-
3109[19:29:07] <darokthar> This seems to be a bug in the kernel.
It is probably not an xserver problem. It happens with any window
manager.
-
3110[19:29:18] <darokthar> I checked with gnome.
-
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-
3114[19:30:35] <darokthar> It was confirmed in an older kernel
for ubuntu. If i move the mouse from one screen to the other, the
right screen blinks black below the curser. The left screen goes
completely blank. It is with intel i915 drivers. I set the
enable_rc6=0 option for grub. Still no success. Some people said it
should work.
-
3115[19:30:47] <darokthar> jelly: it is a laptop.
-
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-
3117[19:31:11] <leachim6> ah, those i915 drivers
-
3118[19:31:22] <leachim6> I've had to get the newest
mainline kernel to fix that before
-
3119[19:31:47] *** Quits: DammitJim (~DammitJim@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
-
3120[19:31:54] <leachim6> you're having the screen
flickering problem right?
-
3121[19:32:02] *** Quits: siiky (~siiky@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
-
3122[19:32:10] <leachim6> I have had that same problem with my
Thinkpad T410
-
3123[19:32:13] <darokthar> Yes, I'm having it right now.
-
3124[19:32:23] *** Joins: siiky (~siiky@replaced-ip)
-
3125[19:32:25] <shtrb> did you try disabling the teardown option
?
-
3126[19:32:28] <leachim6> only fix I found was to run a 4.4+
kernel
-
3127[19:32:43] *** Joins: inaki (~inaki@replaced-ip)
-
3128[19:32:47] <leachim6> stretch is on 4.9+ tho....
-
3129[19:33:07] *** Joins: gildarts_ (gildarts@replaced-ip)
-
3130[19:33:32] <darokthar> leachim6: That is right. Stretch is
using 4.9. But I'll give the 4.11 kernel from the backports a
try.
-
3131[19:34:13] <darokthar> Afterwards I still can opt for the
4.4+ kernel.
-
3132[19:34:37] <leachim6> darokthar: try the newest kernel you
can get, 4.11 is a good choice
-
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-
3135[19:36:40] <annadane> backports is 4.14 i believe
-
3136[19:36:42] <annadane> ,kernels
-
3137[19:36:43] <judd> Available kernel versions are:
experimental: 4.15.0-rc8-686 (4.15~rc8-1~exp1); sid:
4.14.0-3-686-pae (4.14.13-1); buster: 4.14.0-3-686-pae (4.14.13-1);
stretch-backports: 4.14.0-0.bpo.3-686-pae (4.14.13-1~bpo9+1);
stretch: 4.9.0-5-686 (4.9.65-3+deb9u2); jessie-backports:
4.9.0-0.bpo.5-686-pae (4.9.65-3+deb9u2~bpo8+1); jessie:
3.16.0-5-686-pae (3.16.51-3+deb8u1); wheezy-backports:
-
3138[19:36:44] <judd> 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae
(3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-5-686-pae (3.2.96-3)
-
3139[19:36:49] <annadane> indeed
-
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3156[19:41:21] *** Joins: dutchfish (~wil@replaced-ip)
-
3157[19:41:38] <jelly> backports is almost always same as
release+1
-
3158[19:42:39] *** Joins: Krennic (~Krennic@replaced-ip)
-
3159[19:42:52] *** Parts: ori (~atdt@replaced-ip) ()
-
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-
3161[19:45:48] *** Quits: vmod (~ivyshed@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
-
3162[19:47:17] <darokthar> Ok, I'll have to reboot.
Hopefully the error is gone afterwards. Otherwise it is time to get
new hardware anyways :-)
-
3163[19:47:27] *** Quits: inaki (~inaki@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
-
3164[19:47:28] *** Joins: johnfg (johnfg@replaced-ip)
-
3165[19:47:32] <johnfg> hi folks
-
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-
3167[19:47:59] *** Joins: adoua (~adoua@replaced-ip)
-
3168[19:48:16] <johnfg> After the latest kernel upgrade on
jessie, to 3.16.0-5-586 #1 Debian 3.16.51-3+deb8u1, openafs is no
longer working.
-
3169[19:48:19] *** Joins: j0z (~gavioes@replaced-ip)
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3174[19:49:18] *** Joins: gagrio (~gagrio@replaced-ip)
-
3175[19:49:22] <johnfg> There was some error about dkms, and
after rebooting into the new kernel I tried to install
openafs-modules-dkms, but get the message it's already built.
-
3176[19:49:24] <somiaj> johnfg: does it work if you downgrade to
the previous kernel?
-
3177[19:49:32] *** Joins: fre3k (~fre3k@replaced-ip)
-
3178[19:49:50] <somiaj> johnfg: oh this is a dkms issue, you can
run dpkg-reconfigure openafs-modules-dkms, that should force it to
rebuild
-
3179[19:50:01] *** Quits: iderik (~idk@replaced-ip) (Quit: iderik)
-
3180[19:50:03] <johnfg> somiaj: Good question. I can try. Before
I do, is there a way to force. You just answered, thanks!
-
3181[19:50:12] *** Joins: inaki (~inaki@replaced-ip)
-
3182[19:50:26] *** Quits: vivid (~ViViD@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
3183[19:51:04] <johnfg> somiaj: Looks like that's doing
exactly what I need. Thanks again.
-
3184[19:51:19] <johnfg> I tried apt-get reinstall, which, of
course, doesn't exist.
-
3185[19:52:07] <somiaj> I think it is apt-get --reinstall install
-
3186[19:52:24] <somiaj> but in this case reconfiguring a dkms
package will trigger the dkms build
-
3187[19:52:47] *** Quits: circ-user-a60eK (~circuser-@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
-
3188[19:52:52] <fre3k> so is it channel for debian sid?
-
3189[19:52:53] *** Joins: darokthar (~darokthar@replaced-ip)
-
3190[19:53:15] *** Quits: johnfg (johnfg@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
-
3191[19:53:46] <darokthar> leachim6: I think the upgrade to
4.14.0-0.bpo.3-amd64 did it.
-
3192[19:53:54] *** Quits: Almtesh (~Almtesh@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ZNC - ##replaced-url
-
3193[19:54:11] <somiaj> fre3k: debian sid questions are best
asked on #debian-next which is on another irc network, irc.oftc.net
-
3194[19:54:14] <darokthar> Much better.
-
3195[19:54:31] *** Joins: Almtesh (~Almtesh@replaced-ip)
-
3196[19:55:25] *** Joins: circ-user-a60eK (~circuser-@replaced-ip)
-
3197[19:55:35] <leachim6> darokthar: nice! yeah like I said
I've also had trouble with the i915 driver on older kernels
-
3198[19:55:40] <leachim6> I always run the latest one I can find
-
3199[19:55:44] *** Joins: a_l_b (~a_l_b@replaced-ip)
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3200[19:55:56] *** Quits: shtrb (~shtrb@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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-
3203[19:57:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1603
-
3204[19:57:45] <darokthar> A lot of people do have those
problems. After you get the right search terms on google. Any
combination of "dual monitor black blank cursor mouse
move" does not do the trick. You will have to start digging for
kernel and i915.
-
3205[19:58:31] *** Joins: frog (~frog@replaced-ip)
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3206[19:59:56] *** Quits: fre3k (~fre3k@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
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3210[20:01:01] *** Quits: bars0 (~Name@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
-
3211[20:01:15] <wigums> is there any plans of building debians
kernels with retpoline? im on stretch with 4.14.13 and still vuln to
spectre 1 & 2
-
3212[20:01:18] *** Joins: bars0 (~Name@replaced-ip)
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3213[20:01:43] *** Quits: NetTerminalGene (~NetTermin@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
-
3214[20:02:57] <somiaj> this won't be the best place to ask
that. Since you are using a backported kernel (which doens't
get offical security support) you may want to ask the debian kernel
mailing list if they have plans to include that option.
-
3215[20:03:08] <somiaj> and then you would have to wait for it to
filter down from sid to get into backports.
-
3216[20:03:24] <somiaj> you could also look for bugs against the
kernel if others have also made that request.
-
3217[20:03:28] <wigums> well 4.9 is vuln too
-
3218[20:03:32] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
3219[20:03:37] <wigums> which is why i backported
-
3220[20:03:45] <greycat> *facepalm*
-
3221[20:03:50] *** Joins: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip)
-
3222[20:04:51] *** Quits: frog (~frog@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
-
3223[20:04:56] <wigums> afacepalm all you want... i cant find a
debian kernel thats been patched against spectre
-
3224[20:05:18] <BCMM> and so the logical conclusion is to find
the kernel that will be patched last, and use that?
-
3225[20:05:19] *** Joins: saiqui (~luc@replaced-ip)
-
3226[20:05:25] <wigums> i dont know how debian does it but i
always put security first
-
3227[20:05:34] *** Quits: HarveyPwca (~HarveyPwc@replaced-ip) (Quit: The Pwca has left the building)
-
3228[20:05:39] <BCMM> i mean, that doesn't actually mean
anything
-
3229[20:05:40] *** Joins: kallesbar (~kapa@replaced-ip)
-
3230[20:05:47] <wigums> BCMM, i dont know how that works in
debian
-
3231[20:06:01] <greycat> Debian puts freedom first, stability
second. Security comes in somewhere between 1.5 and 2.5.
-
3232[20:06:03] *** Joins: dreamon_ (~dreamon@replaced-ip)
-
3233[20:06:05] <wigums> i figured newer kernel would be patched
-
3234[20:06:32] <wigums> ok so im right thatt there is no debian
kernel patched against spectre?
-
3235[20:06:37] *** Quits: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
3236[20:06:49] *** Quits: bathax (~textual@replaced-ip##) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: ##replaced-url
-
3237[20:06:53] *** Joins: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip)
-
3238[20:06:57] <wigums> if there is could you cut the shit and
point me to it?
-
3239[20:07:02] <greycat> I didn't even know that the CONCEPT
of a kernel patch against spectre was even POSSIBLE.
-
3240[20:07:07] <somiaj> from my understanding there are no
kernels that are patched against spectre 2, but there are also known
attack vectors. Since there are variants on spectre, you may want to
look up a specfic CVE for it.
-
3241[20:07:18] <wigums> greycat, google retpoline
-
3242[20:07:34] <greycat> I read part of the original white paper
on retpoline. Didn't really understand.
-
3243[20:07:40] *** Quits: diniwed1 (~gavron@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
-
3244[20:07:55] <darokthar> greycat: you can mitigate against
(CVE-2017-5753) i think. The other scenarios need updates from the
hardware vendors.
-
3245[20:08:13] *** Joins: eeoh^ (~evh@replaced-ip)
-
3246[20:08:14] <wigums> it patches against spectre without taking
the performance hit by patching variant 2
-
3247[20:08:27] *** Quits: well_laid_lawn (~Jean-luc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
-
3248[20:08:29] *** Quits: sikun (~David@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
-
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-
3250[20:08:42] *** Joins: Chrismeister (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
-
3251[20:08:47] <greycat>
replaced-url
-
3252[20:08:54] <wigums> most other distros are patched already. i
just cant believe the debian devs dont care about security
-
3253[20:08:55] *** Joins: vivid (~ViViD@replaced-ip)
-
3254[20:08:57] <BCMM> wigums: a larger version number
doesn't always mean a literally "newer" kernel,
because old kernel branches still get maintained for a while
-
3255[20:09:16] <darokthar> They do not deliver. Microsoft has
issued a security update against the attack. All other attacks are
still open on my windows machine at work. I will need a bios update
for a motherboard from 2012.
-
3256[20:09:33] *** Quits: jarlaxl (~jarlaxl@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
-
3257[20:09:45] *** Quits: dpat (~dpat@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
-
3258[20:09:50] <wigums> BCMM, 4.14 is newer than 4.9. maintenance
doesnt make 4.9 newer than 4.14
-
3259[20:10:01] <greycat> wigums: No. That's not how it
works.
-
3260[20:10:03] *** Joins: jarlaxl (~jarlaxl@replaced-ip)
-
3261[20:10:07] *** Quits: esro (~esro@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
-
3262[20:10:10] <greycat> 4.9 is a *series* of kernel releases
-
3263[20:10:22] <BCMM> wigums: 4.9.0 is older than 4.14.0, yes
-
3264[20:10:25] *** Joins: esro (~esro@replaced-ip)
-
3265[20:10:32] <wigums> sure it is.... if 4.9 came out last month
and 4.14 came out this month which is newer?
-
3266[20:10:43] <BCMM> wigums: but 4.14.19 was released
*yesterday*
-
3267[20:10:44] <greycat> The current stable kernel is
4.9.65-3+deb9u2 built Jan 4.
-
3268[20:10:52] <hypn0> 14 is greater than 9
-
3269[20:10:54] *** Quits: sz0 (uid110435@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
-
3270[20:11:01] <BCMM> (by kernel.org i mean. i don't think
it's in debian yet)
-
3271[20:11:26] <wigums> right well my thinkng was by this time
upstream has patched. i havent checked but thats my logic for going
to 4.14
-
3272[20:11:33] <somiaj> it also appears that the patch is a gcc
method, which is going to take longer to get into debian because of
having to have a gcc with the option
-
3273[20:11:39] *** Quits: mandeep (~mandeep@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
-
3274[20:11:43] <BCMM> wigums: your best bet is to stay on stable,
which is supposed to be the most secure Debian distro, and wait for
kernel fixes to be included there
-
3275[20:11:44] <somiaj> (retpoline)
-
3276[20:11:44] <greycat> wigums: and if a new 4.9.x release is
put out by Debian this month then that 4.9.x release will be newer
than your 4.14.y release
-
3277[20:12:04] *** Quits: Chrismeister (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
-
3278[20:12:05] <BCMM> wigums: sorry i meant to say 4.9.81 was
released yesterda
-
3279[20:12:33] <BCMM> (copied and pasted the number of another
longterm release that was also yesterday)
-
3280[20:12:50] *** Joins: Sansar (~Sansar@replaced-ip)
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3281[20:12:50] *** Quits: gagrio (~gagrio@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
-
3282[20:13:12] *** Quits: mtn (~mtn@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
-
3283[20:13:29] <Sansar> Hello, when I press the power button in
debian it shows a few options in gui, like log out, shut down
,restart etc. Does shutdown equal to "sudo shutdown -h
now"?
-
3284[20:13:36] <greycat> So anyway,
replaced-url
-
3285[20:13:47] <BCMM> wigums: switch to a higher kernel version
number for new features. switch to a *newer* kernel for bugfixes.
-
3286[20:13:48] <wigums> im a slacker of 20+ years but im new to
debian which is a different beast than slackware so pardon my
ignorance
-
3287[20:14:01] <somiaj> here is also something from the KML,
"there is an ongoing discussion that leads me to believe
retpolines don't fully mitigate the branch prediction
issues..." so it could be this extra thing that needs a newer
gcc isn't fully mitigating an attack that very percising timing
and local access..
-
3288[20:14:21] <greycat> which is yet another reason not to RUSH
things
-
3289[20:14:49] *** Joins: timahvo1 (~rogue@replaced-ip)
-
3290[20:14:52] <BCMM> wigums: also, i'm not specifically
talking about debian. have a look at release dates on
replaced-url
-
3291[20:14:59] *** Joins: johnfg (johnfg@replaced-ip)
-
3292[20:15:09] <BCMM> wigums: the upstream kernel team support
old kernels for a long time
-
3293[20:15:14] <johnfg> The building of the module failed:
replaced-url
-
3294[20:15:15] <somiaj> wigums: debian backports patches to the
frozen stable version and the security team takes security issues
serisoully. But this also takes time and they are cautious when
intruding changes to kernels so they don't take out servers due
to upgrades. I would expect a newer kernel comming with the point
release, if not one comming from security sonner, depending on when
all the testing and backporting is done.
-
3295[20:15:43] <wigums> yea slackware handles it WAY different
-
3296[20:15:43] <johnfg> somiaj: If you get a chance to look, or
while, I'll go ahead and boot in the previous kernel and see if
there's any problems.
-
3297[20:15:44] <somiaj> wigums: and as BCMM mentioned, debian
does work with upstream with this, as the 4.9 is a stable branch
supported by upstream as well.
-
3298[20:16:10] *** Joins: Brumbazz (~exchizz@replaced-ip)
-
3299[20:16:21] *** Joins: Chrismeister (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
-
3300[20:16:46] <somiaj> johnfg: I would go check for bug reports
against the dkms package you are using and see if others have had
the same problem building the module. I don't see anything
obvious but don't have time to look at it in more detail.
-
3301[20:16:56] <BCMM> wigums: also
replaced-url
-
3302[20:17:10] <johnfg> somiaj: Ok, will reboot first, though.
-
3303[20:17:19] *** Quits: johnfg (johnfg@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
3304[20:18:23] <greycat> Right, the gcc 7.3 or 8.0 thing.
-
3305[20:18:32] *** Quits: Chrismeister (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
-
3306[20:18:52] *** Joins: BenderRodriguez (~Foxhoundz@replaced-ip)
-
3307[20:18:52] <greycat> Which makes it impossible to build that
kernel with that feature on stable.
-
3308[20:18:56] <Brumbazz> Hi. I hope it's ok I ask a network
related question. I'm trying to make ipv6 multicast traffic
behave as multicast traffic om my netgear switch. When I try to send
a packet to FF05::2, it gets broadcasted to all hosts connected to
the switch. What I wan't is that the trafic sent to FF05::2 is
only delivered to thouse hosts who have joined the multicast group.
I've enabled MLD on my switch, but it doesn't
-
3309[20:19:02] <Brumbazz> seem to work - all ipv6 multicast
traffic gets broadcasted.. Does any one of you have experience with
that ? Thanks in advance :)
-
3310[20:19:43] <annadane> i'll just mention that spectre (as
you already know) is harder to execute than meltdown
-
3311[20:19:54] *** Joins: Vizva (~Vizva@replaced-ip)
-
3312[20:20:01] <annadane> harder to patch, but also more
difficult to exploit
-
3313[20:20:13] <BCMM> Brumbazz: afaik it's fine to ask
networking questions here, but if it gets complicated enough
##networking might be more help
-
3314[20:20:15] <jelly> Brumbazz: if you haven't asked in
##networking yet, do that, too
-
3315[20:20:16] <Dagger> s/wan't/want/
-
3316[20:20:40] <Brumbazz> oh thanks, I didn't know
##networking existed, thanks! :)
-
3317[20:20:51] <Dagger> unfortunately about all I know about this
is that MLD snooping ought to be the thing you need
-
3318[20:20:58] <jelly> this channel focuses on debian-specific
issues and behaviour of switches is not (unless they're running
Debian)
-
3319[20:21:07] *** Quits: bars0 (~Name@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
-
3320[20:21:21] *** Quits: Sansar (~Sansar@replaced-ip) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 52.6.0/20180124084836])
-
3321[20:21:25] <wigums> noones gonna crack my boxes anyway. they
simply CANT. my interest is only keeping up to date and learning how
they are patching
-
3322[20:21:42] <Brumbazz> Dagger: I'm glad to hear that
:>
-
3323[20:21:50] <darokthar> wigums: never say that.
-
3324[20:21:57] <wigums> lol
-
3325[20:22:03] <wigums> CANT
-
3326[20:22:06] <wigums> hehe
-
3327[20:22:14] <Brumbazz> Dagger: Want* thanks :>
-
3328[20:22:16] <annadane> missed an apostrophe.
-
3329[20:22:35] <Dagger> s/CANT/CAN'T/ c'mon guys
>.>
-
3330[20:22:37] *** Quits: unixer (~unixer@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
-
3331[20:22:49] <darokthar> Someone will see this as a challenge
and crack your boxes.
-
3332[20:22:52] <Dagger> although probably "CAN" is
closer to the truth
-
3333[20:23:15] *** Joins: gagrio (~gagrio@replaced-ip)
-
3334[20:24:05] *** Joins: herbmillerjr (~herbmille@replaced-ip)
-
3335[20:24:19] <wigums> thanks for the info. goin back to what i
was doin
-
3336[20:24:59] <wigums> and btw if aliens came to earth theyd run
slackware
-
3337[20:25:04] <wigums> lol
-
3338[20:25:27] *** Quits: rsx (~rsx@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
3339[20:25:30] *** Joins: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip)
-
3340[20:25:35] *** Quits: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
3341[20:26:05] <darokthar> if aliens came to earth they would be
vivisected.
-
3342[20:26:31] <JustASlacker> if aliens came to earth, you could
hack them with an apple computer
-
3343[20:26:36] <JustASlacker> I saw it on the telly
-
3344[20:27:00] *** Quits: Vizva (~Vizva@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
3345[20:27:02] *** Joins: polaris (~polaris_@replaced-ip)
-
3346[20:27:05] *** Joins: kion (~kion@replaced-ip)
-
3347[20:27:24] *** Joins: Vizva (~Vizva@replaced-ip)
-
3348[20:27:29] <darokthar> In real life, the apple computer will
follow gravity to the ground and break. If you want to get sh*t done
use more robust hardware.
-
3349[20:28:18] <kion> I have a server and all of the sudden it
stops working, and when I try to ssh into it to see what is going
on, I get "ssh_exchange_identification: read: Connection reset
by peer"
-
3350[20:28:19] <wigums> ok so here it is protection from Spectre1
starts from 4.14.18/4.15.2 if you get sources from kernel.org.
-
3351[20:28:22] *** Quits: LocaMocha (bocaneri@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
-
3352[20:28:37] <kion> until I restart it, it takes my ssh
connection again,
-
3353[20:28:40] <kion> any ideas?
-
3354[20:28:52] *** Joins: Xano (~Xano@replaced-ip)
-
3355[20:29:41] *** Joins: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip)
-
3356[20:29:44] <darokthar> kion: some firewall issue? Running a
cron job with wrong rules?
-
3357[20:29:52] *** Quits: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
3358[20:29:59] *** Quits: dayten (~gnoid@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
-
3359[20:30:52] <kion> darokthar, I will re check crontab, because
I don't think I have any cron jobs modifying my firewall
-
3360[20:30:59] <jelly> kion: look at the physical console for
weirdness. Look at logs from the time frame when things started
misbehaving.
-
3361[20:31:33] *** Joins: A|an2 (~androirc@replaced-ip)
-
3362[20:31:40] *** Joins: dixie7z__ (~dixie7z@replaced-ip)
-
3363[20:31:45] <jelly> (the console doesn't have to be
physical if you have IPMI or some other remote management)
-
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3385[20:45:06] <kion> jelly That is what i will do, so far
haven't found anything wierd...
-
3386[20:45:19] *** Joins: Tom-_ (~tomg@replaced-ip)
-
3387[20:45:32] <kion> jelly, no phisical consloe, it's an
amazon server
-
3388[20:45:45] <jelly> sshd disconnection you immediately might
point to some sort of resource contention (eg. out of RAM)
-
3389[20:46:14] <jelly> surely amazon servers can provide access
to console?
-
3390[20:46:16] *** Quits: jimm (~jim@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
-
3391[20:46:28] <jelly> VMs can still have an emulated serial or
VGA
-
3392[20:46:36] *** Quits: gpunk (~gpunk@replaced-ip) (Quit: remi.lu)
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3394[20:46:57] <JustASlacker> dont they have spice?
-
3395[20:46:58] <jelly> and if they don't, get a better
provider?
-
3396[20:47:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1597
-
3397[20:47:11] <JustASlacker> spice or vnc
-
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3399[20:48:32] *** Quits: psychicist__ (~psychicis@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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3401[20:50:50] *** Quits: kion (~kion@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
-
3402[20:51:44] <tobiasBora> Hello,
-
3403[20:51:49] <JustASlacker> lies!
-
3404[20:52:07] <tobiasBora> I don't want to lie...
-
3405[20:52:41] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
3406[20:53:31] <darokthar> which firewall shall i use for a
webserver? I'm using iptables should i switch to nftables?
-
3407[20:53:42] <greycat> why would you use any?
-
3408[20:54:07] <JustASlacker> since you are using the newest
debian, firewalld
-
3409[20:54:21] <greycat> is there a specific *reason* you want to
add firewalling to your web server?
-
3410[20:54:30] <tobiasBora> I'd like to know, what is the
best tool to encrypt a folder on linux ? I used before truecrypt,
but after the strong story of truecrypt (backdoor...), I kept using
an equivalent tcplay. Now, I'd like to know if there are better
tools?
-
3411[20:54:36] <greycat> want to block people from a specific
country or something?
-
3412[20:54:38] *** Quits: TrentP (~GVUEW97sM@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ZNC - ##replaced-url
-
3413[20:54:57] *** Quits: gagrio (~gagrio@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
-
3414[20:55:38] <JustASlacker> tobiasBora:
replaced-url
-
3415[20:55:57] <JustASlacker> tobiasBora: veracrypt is the closes
to truecrypt
-
3416[20:56:18] <JustASlacker>
replaced-url
-
3417[20:56:23] <darokthar> Just the coming DSGVO. I'm not
sure if EU bueaucrats think that firewalls think this is state of
the art. And i don't want to pay a fine to find outl.
-
3418[20:56:28] *** Quits: ableto (~cryptum@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
-
3419[20:56:28] *** Joins: TrentP (~GVUEW97sM@replaced-ip)
-
3420[20:56:29] <tobiasBora> what is the difference with tcplay?
-
3421[20:56:53] <JustASlacker> I dont now tcplay
-
3422[20:56:56] <JustASlacker> know
-
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-
3425[20:57:48] <alkisg> tobiasBora: ecryptfs is widely supported
-
3426[20:58:08] *** jimmm is now known as jim
-
3427[20:58:15] <tobiasBora> alkisg: ecryptfs is not only for
/home/<me>?
-
3428[20:58:37] <alkisg> tobiasBora: of course not; I'm using
it just for a /home/alkisg/Private subfolder
-
3429[20:58:42] *** Joins: gpunk (~gpunk@replaced-ip)
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3430[20:59:10] <greycat> directory. subdirectory.
-
3431[20:59:21] <alkisg> Why? Folder isn't a nice word? :)
-
3432[20:59:26] <greycat> !folder
-
3433[20:59:26] <dpkg> folder is a directory damn it! near My
Computer and Network Neighborhood... or the things you put in a
filing cabinet. IMAP protocol's mailboxes.
-
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-
3435[20:59:48] *** Quits: polaris (~polaris_@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
3436[20:59:57] <alkisg> Meh, for non-native english speakers,
it's whatever you tell us it is :)
-
3437[21:00:05] *** Joins: Ramakandra (~OS-33708@replaced-ip)
-
3438[21:00:08] <greycat> find . -type d
-
3439[21:00:11] <greycat> directory not folder
-
3440[21:00:15] <greycat> ls -l | grep ^d
-
3441[21:00:17] <greycat> directory
-
3442[21:00:18] *** Quits: bbdgl (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
-
3443[21:00:18] *** bbdgl1 is now known as bbdgl
-
3444[21:00:20] <tobiasBora> greycat: because f would be for files
-
3445[21:00:40] <tobiasBora> alkisg: JustASlacker ok thank you!
-
3446[21:00:41] *** Joins: krytarik (~krytarik@replaced-ip)
-
3447[21:01:12] <alkisg> greycat: grep -ri folder /usr/share/doc
:)
-
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-
3450[21:02:18] *** Joins: kion (~kion@replaced-ip)
-
3451[21:02:32] <greycat> wooledg:~$ grep -ri folder
/usr/share/doc | wc
-
3452[21:02:32] <greycat> 610 18711 387954
-
3453[21:02:43] <greycat> wooledg:~$ grep -ri directory
/usr/share/doc | wc
-
3454[21:02:43] <greycat> 2139 25802 342542
-
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-
3457[21:03:24] <alkisg> Yup, I've been hearing both words
for ages now... some more in some context, some less...
-
3458[21:04:05] <greycat> Windows users call them
"folders" because Microsoft calls them "folders"
because they are displayed with an icon that looks like a
file-folder on Microsoft's desktop.
-
3459[21:04:12] <greycat> Unix predates desktops.
-
3460[21:04:19] *** Joins: brokencycle (~brokencyc@replaced-ip)
-
3461[21:04:22] <alkisg> I'm not a native english speaker,
but "directory" comes from telephones, doesn't it?
-
3462[21:04:28] <greycat> Yes.
-
3463[21:04:41] *** Joins: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip)
-
3464[21:04:44] <zleap> I think directory could come from the
command line , where as on the desktop we use folders meaning the
same thing
-
3465[21:04:47] *** Joins: polaris (~polaris_@replaced-ip)
-
3466[21:04:50] <greycat> A directory of files works like a phone
directory. You have a name and you look up the inode number.
-
3467[21:04:51] <zleap> on the desktop you get a picture of a
folder
-
3468[21:04:51] *** Quits: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
3469[21:05:00] <alkisg> So I don't know which one is the
best fit for the actual folder/directory meaning; it's up to
you english people to tell us. From what I hear, both words are OK.
-
3470[21:05:17] <greycat> Only Microsoft people think
"folder" is acceptable.
-
3471[21:05:32] *** Quits: Darcidride_ (~Darcidrid@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
-
3472[21:05:34] <alkisg> I don't think microsoft puts
documents in /usr/share/doc...
-
3473[21:05:57] <JustASlacker> they can if they install linux
subsytem
-
3474[21:06:00] <greycat> Did you not see the part where there
were over 3 times as many lines containing "directory"?
-
3475[21:06:01] *** Quits: polaris (~polaris_@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
3476[21:06:03] <zleap> alkisg: if you do ls -l then a directory
is flagged with d in the permissions block at the start of the
listing
-
3477[21:06:13] <zleap> e.g drwxr-xr-x 4 psutton psutton 4096 Jan
11 18:52 Videos
-
3478[21:06:19] <alkisg> Guys, I understand that directory is the
traditional word for linux
-
3479[21:06:32] <alkisg> But I also think it's ok if someone
calls it a folder
-
3480[21:06:33] *** Joins: polaris (~polaris_@replaced-ip)
-
3481[21:06:46] <greycat> That is precisely the attitude I'm
trying to battle.
-
3482[21:07:01] <qman__> Only windows has folders, everything else
uses directories, including MS-DOS
-
3483[21:07:10] <zleap> well i think pwd, cd, pretty much dictate
directory
-
3484[21:07:12] <alkisg> I used to be more careful when i migrated
to linux 10 years ago, not to use the "folder" word, but
since I saw that everyone was using it without any issue, I stopped
"being careful" about it
-
3485[21:07:19] *** Joins: eeoh^ (eeoh@replaced-ip)
-
3486[21:08:00] <valerius> alkisg folder is a GUI term, whereas
directory is a filesystem term
-
3487[21:08:31] <valerius> so folder is a graphical representation
for directory
-
3488[21:08:39] <alkisg> So I would use ecryptfs on a directory
from a terminal, or on a folder from a gui :)
-
3489[21:08:47] <alkisg> OK
-
3490[21:09:04] <somiaj> most likely due to the fact they wanted
to make an icon for a directory, and had to come up with something
elese. (I don't know what a good directory icon would look
like)
-
3491[21:09:13] <JustASlacker> big book
-
3492[21:09:26] <somiaj> so they had to create a new word to have
an icon everyone would recongize.
-
3493[21:09:33] <greycat> It would just be confusing to end users
if they didn't copy the "sheet of paper" and
"file-folder" icons.
-
3494[21:09:37] <somiaj> well not create a new word, but give
another word a name.
-
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-
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-
3502[21:11:05] <BluesKaj> directory is an organizational system
and it predates telephone books by 2000yrs , the Romans used
directories of the populace for census taking
-
3503[21:11:11] *** Quits: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
-
3504[21:11:47] <greycat> The specific reference to directories in
the Unix context, though, is that you have a file's
"name" and you can look that up to get the inode number
("address").
-
3505[21:12:20] <greycat> In the earliest file systems, a
directory was *literally* just a sequential listing of name/inode
pairs.
-
3506[21:12:46] <JustASlacker> well
-
3507[21:12:50] <JustASlacker> I hate directories now
-
3508[21:12:56] <greycat> On some systems, you could even cat the
contents of a directory and see it, but newer systems all give an
error if you try.
-
3509[21:12:58] <alkisg> Haha
-
3510[21:13:36] <brw> Folders == GUI term. Directory = Universal
term.
-
3511[21:15:09] *** Joins: tomcres (~tomcres@replaced-ip)
-
3512[21:15:23] <Eryn_1983_FL> does debian or systemd determine
which network itnisbon before mounting drives? see i want to connect
cifs only at home. i think i may have to make a sxript to do this
-
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-
3515[21:15:48] <Eryn_1983_FL> is it something i can write for
ifup in /etc/networking??
-
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-
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-
3523[21:19:55] <Guest61608> tmp vs var/tmp?
-
3524[21:20:47] *** Joins: flux242 (~chatzilla@replaced-ip)
-
3525[21:20:54] <tomcres> . /var/tmp persists across reboots; /tmp
doesn't
-
3526[21:21:44] *** Quits: JustASlacker (~JustASlac@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
-
3527[21:22:25] <Guest61608> oh
-
3528[21:22:32] *** Quits: alan_o (~alan@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
-
3529[21:22:39] <Guest61608> good thing i chose var/tmp
-
3530[21:22:45] <Guest61608> lol
-
3531[21:22:53] <tobiasBora> Is there any reason not to put
veracrypt in debian, while tcplay is in debian
-
3532[21:22:58] <tomcres> yes, /var/tmp uses your disk and /tmp is
RAM
-
3533[21:23:17] <Guest61608> tmp is ram?
-
3534[21:23:25] *** Quits: eeoh^ (eeoh@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
-
3535[21:23:31] <greycat> Can be. Or can be disk.
-
3536[21:23:33] <tomcres> by default, yes
-
3537[21:23:56] <Guest61608> how is it ram
-
3538[21:24:04] <greycat> Check the output of "mount".
-
3539[21:24:05] <Guest61608> its just a dir
-
3540[21:24:27] <tomcres> the miracle of unix. everything is a
file or a directory :-)
-
3541[21:24:27] <Guest61608> its just a duur
-
3542[21:24:35] <Guest61608> ya i know
-
3543[21:24:37] <Guest61608> but
-
3544[21:24:45] <greycat> If it's not mounted as a separate
file system, then it is just a subdirectory of the root file system.
-
3545[21:25:05] <greycat> Unless it's a symlink.
-
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-
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-
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