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• 57[01:01:50] <lrvick> So has anyone managed to figure out how to do a reproducible install of debian?
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• 59[01:02:10] <dvs> !fai
• 60[01:02:11] <dpkg> Fully Automatic Installation (FAI) is an automated tool to install or deploy Debian (and other distributions) on a bunch of different hosts or a cluster. It is more flexible than tools like <kickstart> (Red Hat), autoyast and alice (SuSE) or jumpstart (Oracle Solaris). FAI can also be used for configuration management of a running system. replaced-url
• 61[01:02:38] <lrvick> It looks like things are getting close but initrd and he kernel always differ for me.
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• 90[01:57:14] <xloem> cheapio: ? you mean that I'm using a .onion? no, I just don't trust SSL
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• 95[02:01:14] <xloem> I'm also running whonix, which uses .onion by default
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• 112[02:46:47] <nyov> xloem: someone else had an issue with a different onion, today. (no idea if it's running)
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• 122[03:04:32] <lispmacs> anybody here play Pioneers? Want to test my server connection
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• 128[03:09:30] <lispmacs> join #linux
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• 175[03:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1098
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• 177[03:44:42] *** [b0b] is now known as b0b
• 178[03:45:34] *** nyov is now known as Guest85485
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• 219[05:44:53] <awal1> replaced-url
• 220[05:45:01] <awal1> not here
• 221[05:50:11] <sZbcE8qNfG> doesn't work for me from florida
• 222[05:50:32] <sZbcE8qNfG> this is a disgrace
• 223[05:50:52] <sZbcE8qNfG> this page should not have a outage in 2018
• 224[05:51:00] <sZbcE8qNfG> step up your game sysadmins
• 225[05:51:05] <Javabean> site is out for me, west texas
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• 237[06:26:34] *** Parts: midnightmagic (~midnightm@replaced-ip) ()
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• 314[09:09:46] <phiwer> A question about custom patches. Is it possible to have a set of custom patches for that are always applied to packages even if they are updated by apt?
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• 320[09:18:51] <phiwer> anyone?
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• 366[10:21:31] <watom> anyone can ssh to debian through openvpn fine?
• 367[10:21:34] <watom> it's stretch
• 368[10:21:38] <fr0xk> Will buster get firefox-esr 60?
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• 371[10:23:50] <watom> fr0xk: why not? there is enough time before the freeze
• 372[10:24:02] <fr0xk> watom, cool :)
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• 410[10:57:18] <HelloShitty> Hello
• 411[10:57:25] <HelloShitty> Needing a small help here
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• 413[10:57:44] <HelloShitty> I have done a sudo apt-get update and got a package that has been kept back
• 414[10:58:11] <HelloShitty> then I tried sudo apt-get --with-new-pkgs and no error came
• 415[10:58:40] <HelloShitty> then I tried to run sudo apt-get <package-name>
• 416[10:58:45] <HelloShitty> and it says:
• 417[10:58:56] <HelloShitty> libfdk-aac-dev : Depends: libfdk-aac1 (= 0.1.4-2+b1) but 1:0.1.4-dmo1 is to be installed
• 418[10:59:22] <hanshenrik> debian 9 VMs doesn't produce sound on VMWare Player 14 hosts running windows 7. got exactly the same problem with 2 separate systems running 2 separate installations of debian 9.5 VMs on VMWare 14.1.2 win7 x64 SP1 hosts. and the same problem is present with debian 10. windows 7 VMs does produce sound. any idea how to fix it so debian VMs can produce sound?
• 419[11:00:02] <hanshenrik> and does sound on debian VMs work for anyone else with VMWare?
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• 422[11:01:12] <grobi> HelloShitty try apt-get dist-upgrade
• 423[11:02:03] <grobi> and apt update again
• 424[11:02:30] <grobi> i had the same quuestion 1week before ;)
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• 426[11:06:30] <HelloShitty> I did different this time
• 427[11:06:48] <HelloShitty> I uninstalled the version of the package causing problems
• 428[11:07:02] <HelloShitty> then I installed the version it asked for
• 429[11:07:10] <HelloShitty> now I'm going to check if it's ok
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• 431[11:07:20] <HelloShitty> a few other packages were automatically removed
• 432[11:07:45] <HelloShitty> Hope they are not going to cause any more problems
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• 434[11:09:38] <dutchfish> hanshenrik, i dont know about vmware, but when i use virtualbox and have the virtualbox extensions installed, it works for me out of the box. One thing you might want to check is if that user is in the adio group within that vm.
• 435[11:09:39] *** Quits: chocolate (bbb575ed@replaced-ip) (Quit: Page closed)
• 436[11:10:00] <dutchfish> hanshenrik, audio group*
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• 438[11:10:28] <dutchfish> (on Debian stable)
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• 440[11:12:00] <dutchfish> hanshenrik, the same goes for the kvm solution with IOMMU, works also on Debian stable and Debian testing.
• 441[11:12:26] <hanshenrik> dutchfish: the vmware equivalents to "virtualbox extensions" is "apt install open-vm-tools open-vm-tools-desktop;", and i did that already. my user alread is a member of audio.
• 442[11:12:37] <dutchfish> (using audio from the vm on the host)
• 443[11:12:43] <hanshenrik> alreadY*
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• 446[11:13:20] <dutchfish> hanshenrik, you might want to consult vmware, maybe?
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• 448[11:14:19] <hanshenrik> dutchfish: maybe, but weirdly, windows VMs doesn't have a sound problem, Debian VMs does
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• 451[11:15:25] <dutchfish> hanshenrik, as i said, i dont know much about vmware. But it does work on my virtualbox and kvm setups.
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• 453[11:16:06] <hanshenrik> hmm, they're all running xfce4 tho
• 454[11:16:18] <hanshenrik> the default/canonical debian desktop is Gnome right?
• 455[11:17:00] <dutchfish> hanshenrik, yes, but i am not using that either, i merely use either a Debian console setup, kde or cinnamon
• 456[11:17:28] <dutchfish> hanshenrik, that is prolly not it
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• 460[11:20:00] <dutchfish> hanshenrik, an obvious thing, apropos, are you sure the audio in the vm isnt muted? I myself, always run into that one.
• 461[11:20:29] <dutchfish> (mixer)
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• 465[11:21:13] <hanshenrik> yes i'm sure. maxed the VM volume mixer, made sure the audio output device isn't muted, maxed the volume on the host, made sure the VMWare process (which made a audio handle on the host btw) isn't muted either, and made sure the VM can make sound
• 466[11:21:26] <hanshenrik> oh, and maxed the volume in VLC the media player
• 467[11:21:43] <dutchfish> ok
• 468[11:21:52] <hanshenrik> err, made sure the host can make sound*
• 469[11:22:53] <dutchfish> hanshenrik, i think your best bet is ask vmware or the fora
• 470[11:23:05] <hanshenrik> fora?
• 471[11:23:18] <dutchfish> hanshenrik, forums
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• 473[11:26:23] <fr0xk> hanshenrik, I was running debian unstable+gnome. Tired of updating shits. Now xfce4+debian stable+an unstable KVM instance
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• 475[11:27:14] <hanshenrik> fr0xk: i was running debian-testing for a long time.. tired of shit breaking or semi-breaking all the time, so moving to debian stable now..
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• 477[11:28:39] <fr0xk> hanshenrik, testing is tasting.. packages disappear and needed to pull from unstable
• 478[11:29:19] <dutchfish> hanshenrik, what is the output of `lspci | grep Audio` in that VM?
• 479[11:29:21] <fr0xk> I will be glad when debian will use upstream config for polkit
• 480[11:29:31] <hanshenrik> polkit?
• 481[11:29:34] <fr0xk> s/tasting/testing/
• 482[11:29:53] <fr0xk> hanshenrik, polkit+udisk mounts
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• 484[11:31:13] <fr0xk> An issue is submitted by someone here: replaced-url
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• 496[11:44:08] <lovepopsickle> do most home users use debian sid/unstable or debian stable?
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• 499[11:45:47] <kirk781> I am on Debian Testing bu I had assume majority use the stable version
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• 501[11:46:16] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, I was using unstable from long time, but I can't guarantee for any stability
• 502[11:46:36] <lovepopsickle> fr0xk, what you use now?
• 503[11:46:54] <lovepopsickle> still unstable?
• 504[11:47:25] <lovepopsickle> kirk781, so testing is more stable than unstable is that right?
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• 506[11:47:40] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, Debian stable (I tired fixing things, once grep broke and system became un-bootable back in 2002)
• 507[11:47:52] <fr0xk> tired of
• 508[11:47:54] <lovepopsickle> ohh i c
• 509[11:48:07] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, I am very old debianer xD
• 510[11:48:14] <lovepopsickle> fr0xk, but the packages don't really upgrade often in stable right?
• 511[11:48:28] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, Yeah, that's why I use it
• 512[11:48:35] <lovepopsickle> oh i c
• 513[11:48:55] <fr0xk> In case I need new packages, I setup a VM, and ssh into it, or use flatpak
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• 515[11:50:13] <kirk781> lovepopsickle, I think so.
• 516[11:50:43] <kirk781> I also bricked my Debian system recently. Long story short, lightdm won't boot up and when it did, won't let me login.
• 517[11:51:04] <lovepopsickle> i guess there isn't a setting to have certain packages updated from unstable if using stable? I guess you could add ppa's?
• 518[11:51:26] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, Add PPA and you are dead
• 519[11:51:49] <lovepopsickle> lmao
• 520[11:51:49] <kirk781> lovepopsickle, It was due to the fact that I stable has quite old version of apps that I switched to testing.
• 521[11:52:12] <fr0xk> kirk781, What apps you use?
• 522[11:52:19] <lovepopsickle> kirk781, that is my concern with stable. They seem to only update apps on the actual upgrade
• 523[11:53:16] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, I have bad experiences with rolling releases. Once day.. it will make everyone realize
• 524[11:53:38] <fr0xk> New apps should be run in a sandbox
• 525[11:53:42] *** Joins: wgas (~wgas@replaced-ip)
• 526[11:53:50] <fr0xk> that should be isolated from core system
• 527[11:54:54] <kirk781> fr0xk, for one, the version of Firefox based on ESR is old in Stable's repos
• 528[11:55:01] <fr0xk> I will just wait or throw a flatpak instance, getting things done, and wipe new shit
• 529[11:55:19] <fr0xk> kirk781, Yeah, but that's esr
• 530[11:55:33] <fr0xk> kirk781, Do you need new firefox features?
• 531[11:55:52] <fr0xk> esr gets security updates regularly
• 532[11:56:07] <fr0xk> Now firefox is 60
• 533[11:56:11] <fr0xk> in stretch
• 534[11:56:25] <BCMM> lovepopsickle: you can add unstable repos and set priorities so that stuff won't get installed from there unless you explicitly ask for it
• 535[11:56:38] <BCMM> but not every package in unstable can actually run on stable
• 536[11:56:46] <at0m> !bpo
• 537[11:56:46] <dpkg> backports.debian.org (formerly backports.org) is an official repository of <backports> for the current stable (see <jessie backports>) and oldstable (<wheezy backports>) distributions, prepared by Debian developers. Ask me about <backport caveat> and read replaced-url
• 538[11:57:02] <BCMM> that^
• 539[11:57:22] <at0m> at least backports are built using depends of the debian version it's going to be installed on
• 540[11:57:45] <BCMM> or if it's not in bpo, getting the source package and building it for stable is often an option (building a debian source package is nothing like as painful as manually compiling from source)
• 541[11:57:56] <kirk781> I have now installed Sparky Linux[which is based on Debian only]
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• 544[11:58:17] <fr0xk> kirk781, but why?
• 545[11:58:33] *** Quits: COOurb (~COOurb@replaced-ip##) (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium ##replaced-url
• 546[11:58:56] <kirk781> fr0xk, As said, my Debian installation bricked, so decided to just try out a new distro
• 547[11:59:09] <at0m> dpkg: based on debian
• 548[11:59:09] <dpkg> Your distribution may be based on and have software in common with Debian, but it is not Debian. We don't and cannot know what changes were made by your distribution (compare replaced-url
• 549[11:59:14] <fr0xk> kirk781, Ow.. you could have reinstall stable xD
• 550[11:59:43] <kirk781> fr0xk, yeah , I could do that. But I want to increase my count of distroes that I've tried
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• 553[11:59:52] <kirk781> My current count is quite low
• 554[11:59:54] <fr0xk> ^^^^ Yeah, I don't think you will get sparkylinux support here
• 555[12:00:05] <fr0xk> kirk781, LOLOL
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• 561[12:01:00] <fr0xk> I, once tried Arch. Due to lack of maintainers, too many packages moved to AUR
• 562[12:01:03] <kirk781> fr0xk, I am not here for asking technical questions[ atleast not yet]
• 563[12:01:08] <fr0xk> So I left Arch
• 564[12:01:39] <fr0xk> However debian packaging is mess
• 565[12:01:40] <fr0xk> xD
• 566[12:01:45] <kirk781> The day I am feeling too happy with my life, I'll decide to invest multiple days to install Arch just to be able to say BTW, I use Arch
• 567[12:02:02] <kirk781> And the day I want to lose my will to live, I'll compile Gentoo
• 568[12:02:03] <fr0xk> kirk781, That's the first rule of Arch
• 569[12:02:29] <fr0xk> kirk781, That's LFS. Gentoo is easy these days
• 570[12:03:15] <diogenes_> kirk781, and the day you wanna ruin your life, install freebsd :)
• 571[12:03:35] <kirk781> Is BSD that bad?
• 572[12:03:35] <fr0xk> diogenes_, But FreeBSD is way easier
• 573[12:03:49] <fr0xk> even easier than installing Debian
• 574[12:04:06] <diogenes_> fr0xk, yeah but it lacks few decades of developmnt
• 575[12:04:24] <diogenes_> it's not for users who just wanna enjoy their life
• 576[12:04:37] <fr0xk> diogenes_, Yeah, a few developers work there, but not much less as Arch
• 577[12:04:44] <blackflow> diogenes_: day? try years.
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• 581[12:05:26] <diogenes_> blackflow, lol
• 582[12:05:40] <fr0xk> I swear, I am never going to install a rolling release distro untill I get a life with no job to do
• 583[12:05:41] *** Joins: yunhao94 (~yunhao94@replaced-ip)
• 584[12:06:14] <diogenes_> ++
• 585[12:06:18] <fr0xk> regardless of expertise, unless I am a beta tester xD
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• 587[12:06:30] <kirk781> What's the easiest rolling release distro to install?
• 588[12:06:30] <diogenes_> a well paid beta tester
• 589[12:06:55] <fr0xk> kirk781, Solus and debian unstable(rolling development)
• 590[12:07:14] <fr0xk> diogenes_, Yeah, payment is necessary
• 591[12:08:06] <fr0xk> You can count no of arch linux and such distro developers in your fingers
• 592[12:08:24] <BCMM> hmm, is sid "easy" to install?
• 593[12:08:33] <BCMM> actually, i guess it's easy but not "quick"
• 594[12:08:38] <fr0xk> BCMM, Yeah, and easy to break too
• 595[12:08:41] <BCMM> because the official way is to install stable and then upgrade
• 596[12:08:49] <fr0xk> Yeah
• 597[12:08:58] <kirk781> Wait, I have Solus installed. I didn't knew that it was a rolling release distro.
• 598[12:09:05] <fr0xk> Actually via mini.iso diect install of sid possible
• 599[12:09:07] <BCMM> maybe i've got a skewed perspective from years of gentoo, but sid isn't *that* easy to break
• 600[12:09:11] <at0m> BCMM: upgrade till breakage =)
• 601[12:09:28] <BCMM> basically you just need to read what apt full-upgrade says before you press Y
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• 604[12:10:22] <fr0xk> BCMM, once I did that, I was the first first guy who created a bug report
• 605[12:10:27] <fr0xk> xD
• 606[12:10:31] <fr0xk> grep broke
• 607[12:10:39] <fr0xk> sysvint days
• 608[12:10:40] <fr0xk> xD
• 609[12:11:01] <lovepopsickle> BCMM, oh i c what your saying.. basically you use the debian stable os but the repos packages you can use the unstable repos?
• 610[12:11:10] *** Joins: dselect (~dselect@replaced-ip)
• 611[12:11:30] <BCMM> lovepopsickle: like atom said, backports is the sensible way to go
• 612[12:11:46] <BCMM> selected packages from newer debian properly packaged for stable
• 613[12:11:54] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, Yeah, but read this before doing anything replaced-url
• 614[12:12:05] *** Joins: yunhao94 (~yunhao94@replaced-ip)
• 615[12:12:08] <fr0xk> Use backports
• 616[12:12:21] <fr0xk> replaced-url
• 617[12:12:36] <fr0xk> kirk781,
• 618[12:13:12] *** Quits: platvoeten (~platvoete@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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• 621[12:14:27] <kirk781> Wow, I have never felt this stupid since last night.
• 622[12:14:44] <fr0xk> kirk781, what? xD
• 623[12:16:01] <lovepopsickle> i like the backports idea but is there a way to tell it to always upgrade certain packages from backports when you do apt update and apt upgrade?
• 624[12:16:15] <jelly> lovepopsickle: that's how it works by default
• 625[12:16:21] <lovepopsickle> instead of manually upgrading packages from backports?
• 626[12:16:44] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, bpo packages automatically upgrades
• 627[12:16:46] <lovepopsickle> replaced-url
• 628[12:16:48] <jelly> if you install explicitly from backports once, you keep getting upgrades from backports
• 629[12:16:56] <lovepopsickle> All backports are deactivated by default (i.e. the packages are pinned to 100 by using ButAutomaticUpgrades: yes in the Release files. If you want to install something from backports run:
• 630[12:17:23] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, That's for install. packported packages use a -bpo tag
• 631[12:17:25] <lovepopsickle> oh you mean once you install a certain package then that certain package gets update auto after that?
• 632[12:17:25] <jelly> you need to explicit -t ... once
• 633[12:17:47] <lovepopsickle> so you saying you do that once for one package and then its auto?
• 634[12:17:49] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, You don't need to manually upgrade
• 635[12:17:56] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, YES
• 636[12:18:11] *** Joins: Kevlar_Noir (~lexou@replaced-ip)
• 637[12:18:13] <lovepopsickle> fr0xk, well you need to do it the first time
• 638[12:18:25] <fr0xk> Yes
• 639[12:18:28] <lovepopsickle> k
• 640[12:18:31] <lovepopsickle> i like that idea
• 641[12:18:42] <fr0xk> do for first time and then it will be upgraded from there
• 642[12:18:46] <lovepopsickle> how fast does a package that gets put in unstable get put on the backports?
• 643[12:19:09] <fr0xk> packages from backport use names like foo-bpo~.deb
• 644[12:19:41] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, It depends upon maintainer and ABI compatibility
• 645[12:19:50] <lovepopsickle> i understand
• 646[12:19:54] <jelly> lovepopsickle: nothing goes from unstable to backports. stretch-backports are rebuilt from buster sources
• 647[12:20:04] <jelly> and it's always manual
• 648[12:20:35] <lovepopsickle> buster is testing?
• 649[12:20:43] <fr0xk> testing -> backport (not unstable)
• 650[12:20:53] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, Yeah, buster is testing
• 651[12:20:59] <lovepopsickle> k
• 652[12:21:30] <lovepopsickle> what about like firefox and tor thats a good idea to keep upgraded how fast they get put in testing on release?
• 653[12:21:32] *** Quits: esro (~esro@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 654[12:22:21] <jelly> debian stable tracks Firefox ESR
• 655[12:22:36] <lovepopsickle> uh oh jsse back port shows tor 2.9
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• 658[12:24:23] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, Debian trackers only firefox ESR
• 659[12:24:32] *** Joins: waydot (~loot@replaced-ip)
• 660[12:24:40] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, Do not use tor from distro repos
• 661[12:24:44] <fr0xk> Download tarball
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• 664[12:25:30] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, replaced-url
• 665[12:25:53] <lovepopsickle> what is the stretch backports?
• 666[12:25:55] <lovepopsickle> is that testing?
• 667[12:26:04] <lovepopsickle> stretch?
• 668[12:26:06] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, Do not trust distro maintainers if you need tor level security
• 669[12:26:20] <fr0xk> s/security/privacy/
• 670[12:26:23] <lovepopsickle> well stretch is up to date it seems
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• 673[12:26:52] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, Also, don't run Debian if you need new packages
• 674[12:27:08] <fr0xk> Try fedora for that
• 675[12:27:23] *** Joins: brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip)
• 676[12:27:31] <fr0xk> or standard ubuntu
• 677[12:27:51] <lovepopsickle> i have ubuntu now and I may use that for a while
• 678[12:28:15] *** Joins: dastier_ (~dastier@replaced-ip)
• 679[12:28:55] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, I meant non-lts ubuntu
• 680[12:29:09] <lovepopsickle> yes i understand
• 681[12:29:17] <fr0xk> LTS ubuntu in reality got older packages than Debian IMO
• 682[12:29:18] *** Quits: buttros_ (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: buttros_)
• 683[12:29:28] <lovepopsickle> well i have ppa set kek
• 684[12:29:47] <lovepopsickle> ppa seems to be the best way it seems
• 685[12:29:51] <fr0xk> buster is coming around jan 2019
• 686[12:29:55] <lovepopsickle> otherwise it gets complicated it seems
• 687[12:30:08] <kirk781> I was happy to see that Ubuntu ditched Unity. I then got sad when I knew they ditched it for GNOME.
• 688[12:30:09] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, What? Why we need PPAs? There is flatpak
• 689[12:30:22] <lovepopsickle> i have flatpak but its still new
• 690[12:30:27] <fr0xk> PPAs will fuck the system up
• 691[12:30:34] <lovepopsickle> nah
• 692[12:30:36] <lovepopsickle> no issues yet
• 693[12:30:49] <jelly> don't use PPA, they are not created for Debian
• 694[12:30:49] <lovepopsickle> its certain ppa not hundreds
• 695[12:30:59] <lovepopsickle> im in ubuntu
• 696[12:31:01] <lovepopsickle> works fine
• 697[12:31:15] <fr0xk> I don't even use backports, neither I need any fancy new packages
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• 699[12:31:44] <jelly> oh, that's fine then, but keep that discussion for some place that is not a Debian tech support place
• 700[12:31:45] <lovepopsickle> fr0xk, you say that until uses an exploit on your package that has not been upgraded
• 701[12:32:12] <kirk781> PPA's suck.
• 702[12:32:13] <jelly> lovepopsickle: debian has a security team
• 703[12:32:13] <lovepopsickle> jelly, well i was considering a move that is why i was asking
• 704[12:32:15] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, debian push upgrades
• 705[12:32:19] *** Quits: buttros_ (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 706[12:32:20] <kirk781> Just download and install the .deb
• 707[12:32:27] <fr0xk> I use cron jobs for upgrading system
• 708[12:33:01] <jelly> lovepopsickle: security team makes sure versions in stable have known vulnerabilities fixed
• 709[12:33:04] <fr0xk> Debian push security upgrades. Using newer software for security is funny xD
• 710[12:33:28] <kirk781> Ubuntu sure is popular enough to get it's own PPA's. Nearly all Linux users I know use Ubuntu.
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• 713[12:34:02] <fr0xk> Ubuntu has a very small team of developers. They relay on Debian 90%
• 714[12:34:03] <lovepopsickle> fr0xk, not really funny when people read the release logs to exploit your packages :P
• 715[12:34:11] <jelly> fr0xk: that's not really true
• 716[12:34:21] <lovepopsickle> i know that they work togethe fr0xk
• 717[12:34:31] *** Quits: madage (~madage@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 718[12:34:38] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, What?
• 719[12:34:53] <fr0xk> exploiting packages by reading changelogs?
• 720[12:34:54] <jelly> and it's not really a topic for #debian; best keep this channel for tech support
• 721[12:34:59] <lovepopsickle> fr0xk, when a program is update they list the bugs people fix and people make exploits from that
• 722[12:35:08] <lovepopsickle> yes dingle berry
• 723[12:35:28] <jelly> you want to chat, we have #debian-offtopic for that
• 724[12:35:31] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, It happens for unstable too, nearly all upstream usages changelogs
• 725[12:35:54] <fr0xk> And there is apparmor
• 726[12:35:55] <fr0xk> xD
• 727[12:36:06] <lovepopsickle> i love apparmor
• 728[12:36:34] <fr0xk> But seriously running debian unstable for better security xD
• 729[12:36:41] <fr0xk> makes no sense
• 730[12:36:42] <fr0xk> xD
• 731[12:36:53] <lovepopsickle> running updating packages makes sense :P
• 732[12:36:59] <fr0xk> Not a single rolling distro has a security team
• 733[12:37:23] <lovepopsickle> fr0xk, good luck running an exploited firefox have fun with that
• 734[12:37:37] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, create a cron job then, it will run per hour basis
• 735[12:38:05] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, All firefox versions can be exploited
• 736[12:38:16] <fr0xk> Even in that beta one
• 737[12:38:35] <lovepopsickle> fr0xk, easier to exploit when the changelog says exactly what is wrong :)
• 738[12:38:59] *** Joins: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 739[12:39:01] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, dude, there is upstream commits
• 740[12:39:05] <jelly> ,v firefox-esr
• 741[12:39:07] <judd> Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie-backports/firefox-release: 52.1.0esr-1~bpo80+1; wheezy-security: 52.8.0esr-1~deb7u1; jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; jessie-security: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch: 52.9.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 52.9.0esr-1; stretch-security: 60.2.0esr-1~deb9u2; sid: 60.2.1esr-1
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• 743[12:39:22] <lovepopsickle> firefox 52 lmao
• 744[12:39:37] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, No, it is firefox 60.2
• 745[12:39:40] <jelly> lovepopsickle: stretch is on 60.2.0esr
• 746[12:39:41] <lovepopsickle> see look @ sid
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• 749[12:39:58] <lovepopsickle> true
• 750[12:40:06] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, sid also has 60
• 751[12:40:08] <jelly> and 60.2.1esr will be built soon if needed
• 752[12:40:12] <brigo> why is judd wrong about firefox-esr in stretch?
• 753[12:40:31] <fr0xk> judd, why you lie? xD
• 754[12:40:32] <judd> No package named 'you' was found in stretch/amd64.
• 755[12:40:51] <brigo> fr0xk, judd is a bot
• 756[12:40:59] <fr0xk> I know xD
• 757[12:41:05] <lovepopsickle> .v tor
• 758[12:41:08] <jelly> brigo: it might be looking at an outdated mirror. My systems look at the same mirror so I don't know what's wrong
• 759[12:41:11] <fr0xk> what tor?
• 760[12:41:22] <lovepopsickle> what is wrong with this bot
• 761[12:41:29] <lovepopsickle> fr0xk, progammed it :P
• 762[12:41:31] <jelly> Candidate: 60.2.0esr-1~deb9u2
• 763[12:41:44] <jelly> brigo: is that wrong?
• 764[12:41:47] <fr0xk> I told you to use tor from here: replaced-url
• 765[12:41:50] <brigo> jelly, i think i found that problem in other packages too, i don't remember which ones.
• 766[12:42:00] <fr0xk> Do not trust maintainers
• 767[12:42:12] *** Joins: leru_ (~leru@replaced-ip)
• 768[12:42:16] <lovepopsickle> i have their onion ppa fr0xk
• 769[12:42:35] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, That's still bad idea
• 770[12:42:35] <brigo> jelly, i think i don't follow you about that candidate :-/
• 771[12:42:48] <jelly> brigo: what is wrong in judd's output?
• 772[12:43:22] <lovepopsickle> fr0xk, be a man add some ppa's
• 773[12:43:42] <jelly> lovepopsickle: please avoid giving that kind of advice in this channel
• 774[12:43:44] <fr0xk> Why I would do that at first place? xD
• 775[12:43:57] <fr0xk> judd, gcc
• 776[12:44:15] <brigo> jelly, stretch-backports is missing, i thought s-b was pointing to 52.8
• 777[12:44:35] <jelly> brigo: maybe there is no stretch-backports build of firefox-esr
• 778[12:44:38] <fr0xk> v, gcc
• 779[12:44:55] *** Quits: Zvmdyv (~Zvmdyv@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 780[12:45:03] <fr0xk> judd not saying anything
• 781[12:45:05] <lovepopsickle> well hopefully independant maintainers will start using flatpak
• 782[12:45:43] <brigo> jelly, ok, i've got 60 from security, didn't know that.
• 783[12:45:52] <jelly> brigo: there's 60.2 in security.d.o stretch/updates, and that's what users get by default
• 784[12:45:59] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, I repo world, it's all about trust. However I still use flatpaks for compilers etc
• 785[12:46:20] <brigo> jelly, ok, i didn't see that, thanks for the explanation.
• 786[12:46:30] <lovepopsickle> flatpak is nice but still new and getting more apps
• 787[12:46:34] <jelly> and that's present in judd's output
• 788[12:46:35] <fr0xk> Mozilla Firefox 60.2.0 in my stable
• 789[12:47:05] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, I don't use apps, I use their SDKs and build apps by myself
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• 791[12:47:22] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, replaced-url
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• 794[12:48:26] <lovepopsickle> so people using strickly stable they got firefox 60.2?
• 795[12:48:44] <jelly> yes
• 796[12:48:54] <lovepopsickle> k then its updated quickly
• 797[12:48:56] <lovepopsickle> like ubuntu
• 798[12:49:15] <jelly> no shit
• 799[12:49:26] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, Ubuntu uses firefox, debian uses firefox-esr
• 800[12:49:31] <fr0xk> Both are different
• 801[12:49:51] <lovepopsickle> is their a firefox 60.2
• 802[12:49:52] <fr0xk> replaced-url
• 803[12:49:58] <lovepopsickle> esr
• 804[12:50:12] <fr0xk> Read this: replaced-url
• 805[12:50:13] *** Quits: Tarrasquero (~Tarrasque@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 806[12:50:57] <lovepopsickle> oh wait firefox is 62
• 807[12:51:00] <lovepopsickle> you guys on the slow track
• 808[12:51:05] <jelly> and both are up to date and patched
• 809[12:51:21] <lovepopsickle> esr is not exactly up to date
• 810[12:51:31] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, firefox != firefox-esr
• 811[12:51:38] <fr0xk> esr is up to date
• 812[12:51:39] <lovepopsickle> i know
• 813[12:51:43] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip) ("vergissmeinnicht")
• 814[12:51:45] <lovepopsickle> esr is behind
• 815[12:51:58] <fr0xk> replaced-url
• 816[12:52:00] <lovepopsickle> tor browser uses esr and it can be quite slow
• 817[12:52:01] <jelly> lovepopsickle: we're talking about security issues
• 818[12:52:11] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, how? Check version number
• 819[12:52:15] <jelly> esr is behing in _features_
• 820[12:52:27] <jelly> it's up to date in security patches
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• 822[12:53:07] <lovepopsickle> jelly how many ppa's you got?
• 823[12:53:23] <lovepopsickle> dont lie either
• 824[12:53:26] <jelly> lovepopsickle: I don't run Ubuntu on this particular system
• 825[12:53:27] <fr0xk> replaced-url
• 826[12:53:38] <jelly> so no ppas
• 827[12:53:38] <fr0xk> Do you see 62 here? replaced-url
• 828[12:53:44] <pingfloyd> ppas aren't very secure
• 829[12:53:47] <lovepopsickle> you can't intall a ppa on debian?
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• 831[12:54:19] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, Not by default, and debian do not support PPAs (neither ubuntu)
• 832[12:54:19] <jelly> lovepopsickle: you don't WANT to, ppa binaries are built for ubuntu releases
• 833[12:54:31] <lovepopsickle> ppa's are for real men who aren't scared
• 834[12:54:36] <pingfloyd> debian doesn't use the flawed concept
• 835[12:54:51] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jelly
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• 837[12:55:06] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, Debian is for people who want to work, rather than hipsters who wants new softwares xD
• 838[12:55:16] <jelly> lovepopsickle: maybe avoid incendiary statements like that
• 839[12:55:25] <lovepopsickle> you mean unexploited software
• 840[12:55:35] <fr0xk> I have a debian running in my office from 2006 with 0.000001% downtime
• 841[12:55:49] <leru_> Hi, I'm interested in the release 'Buster'. Searched for it and came to this not working site: replaced-url
• 842[12:55:55] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o jelly
• 843[12:55:58] <blackflow> fr0xk: that's one hell of a vulnerable server then.
• 844[12:56:15] <jelly> leru_: buster is current "testing" branch, there's no release yet.
• 845[12:56:46] <fr0xk> blackflow, Yeah, a bit xD
• 846[12:56:52] <lovepopsickle> fr0xk, is still on firefox 52
• 847[12:57:01] <leru_> jelly, well, how can I get the "testing" branch version?
• 848[12:57:05] <jelly> leru_: the safest thing to do if you want to try it, is install Debian 9 (stretch) and do a release upgrade to buster
• 849[12:57:15] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, I am on firefox 60.2.1
• 850[12:57:15] <jelly> !stretch->buster
• 851[12:57:22] <jelly> dpkg, stretch->buster
• 852[12:57:29] <leru_> jelly, I see, thank you
• 853[12:57:30] <pingfloyd> lovepopsickle: how do you know? He may have downloaded the tarball from mozilla of the latest for all you know
• 854[12:57:45] <lovepopsickle> pingfloyd, lucky guess
• 855[12:57:58] <pingfloyd> I have firefox 62 on jessie
• 856[12:58:07] <lovepopsickle> fr0xk, i was getting the firefox 52 vibe from him :P
• 857[12:58:12] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, Or probably I don't use firefox at all xD
• 858[12:58:25] <pingfloyd> fr0xk: don't tell me you use chrome
• 859[12:58:27] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, from whom?
• 860[12:58:34] <fr0xk> pingfloyd, Lol, no
• 861[12:58:36] <lovepopsickle> you
• 862[12:58:36] <lovepopsickle> :)
• 863[12:58:41] <Orys> what's wrong with chromium? :D
• 864[12:58:46] <jelly> lovepopsickle, fr0xk: I think this convo has run its useful course, you can continue in #debian-offtopic but keep this channel for actual tech support issues from now on
• 865[12:58:47] <fr0xk> lovepopsickle, Your assumptions suck
• 866[12:59:03] <fr0xk> jelly, Yeah
• 867[12:59:09] <fr0xk> lets drop this BS
• 868[12:59:23] *** Quits: Kevlar_Noir (~lexou@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
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• 870[13:00:03] <lovepopsickle> debian folks kind of touchy it seems
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• 873[13:04:12] <jelly> leru_: if you want to try see how broken the future installer for buster is right now, you can try the development builds of the installer
• 874[13:04:16] <jelly> !d-i
• 875[13:04:16] <dpkg> Debian 9 "Stretch is now the "stable" Debian release. See replaced-url
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• 883[13:08:12] <leru_> jelly, I just want some kind a rolling release. I use some packages a lot, that I want always to be up-to-date. Maybe Debian isn't for me. Idk. Never used it before
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• 886[13:08:35] <lovepopsickle> ^
• 887[13:08:57] *** Quits: him-cesjf (~cesjf@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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• 889[13:09:55] <jelly> leru_: it probably isn't, then, depending on the release cycle process even testing and unstable may be too out of date, or too broken for you
• 890[13:10:18] *** Joins: LorD_n1c0w (~igora@replaced-ip)
• 891[13:11:04] <jelly> that said, if you have redundant systems (two computers to do work on) you can try using either testing or a testing/unstable mix or just unstable but be prepared for breakage and helping to fix it
• 892[13:11:07] *** Joins: bipul (~bipul@replaced-ip)
• 893[13:11:25] <jelly> !sid faq
• 894[13:11:25] <dpkg> replaced-url
• 895[13:11:32] <bipul> Hi jelly
• 896[13:11:46] <jelly> hello
• 897[13:11:51] <bipul> jelly, PM?
• 898[13:11:56] *** Joins: Gaaab (~Gaaab@replaced-ip)
• 899[13:12:02] <leru_> jelly, I just looked it up. Testing has quite new packages. It's not that bad
• 900[13:12:15] *** Joins: clemens3 (~clemens@replaced-ip)
• 901[13:12:15] <jelly> bipul: sure, if it isn't support :-)
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• 904[13:13:55] <fr0xk> Can anyone explain why debian still using old depreciated pkla?
• 905[13:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1126
• 906[13:14:25] <jelly> pkla?
• 907[13:15:54] *** Quits: guiverc (~guiverc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 908[13:16:03] <jelly> fr0xk: debian does not move quickly, the networking scripts used net-tools (ifconfig, route) deprecated around 2000, until 2015 jessie release
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• 913[13:16:46] <fr0xk> jelly, Is there any security issue in that?
• 914[13:17:30] <jelly> not everything is a security issue
• 915[13:17:38] <fr0xk> I am not really sure about deprecation of pkla->rules
• 916[13:17:42] <fr0xk> so asking
• 917[13:17:47] <jelly> what is pkla?
• 918[13:18:06] <fr0xk> sorry if I asked an inappropriate question
• 919[13:18:39] <fr0xk> jelly, policykit-rules
• 920[13:19:13] <fr0xk> Read: replaced-url
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• 924[13:20:28] <jelly> fr0xk: no idea, but if you can reproduce an issue in Debian, best file a bug report
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• 944[13:28:58] <fr0xk> jelly, They said they are working on it... :)
• 945[13:29:05] *** Quits: well_laid_lawn (~Jean-luc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 946[13:29:13] <fr0xk> Which is a good news
• 947[13:29:15] <fr0xk> :)
• 948[13:29:18] *** Quits: ijmad (~ian@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 949[13:29:44] <bipul> I'm just looking for a help to parse a data as file-3 list in the link replaced-url
• 950[13:30:00] <bipul> Any help will be highly appreciated.
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• 954[13:32:57] <dutchfish> bipul, why not use diff?
• 955[13:33:09] *** Joins: SopaXorzTaker (~SopaXorzT@replaced-ip)
• 956[13:33:47] <bipul> dutchfish, If it's large file then it's not easy to handel with diff
• 957[13:34:11] *** Quits: smolboye (~smolboye@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 958[13:34:13] <fr0xk> bipul, Use vim -d
• 959[13:34:15] *** Quits: intcat (~zshlyk@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 960[13:34:20] <bipul> Even i'm not familiar with all parameters and settings of diff
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• 963[13:36:04] <pingfloyd> I find vimdiff the easiest way
• 964[13:36:21] <fr0xk> bipul, $ man vimdiff
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• 966[13:37:02] *** Joins: jordila (~jordi@replaced-ip)
• 967[13:37:13] <bipul> But i need to generate a separate file. Which has the data which are not into the file-2
• 968[13:37:26] <bipul> By comparing the file2 with file-1
• 969[13:38:03] <jordila> i've just created ... ' adduser myuser && passwd myuser ' . I can login as such on tty, but not on XFCE / X session ... nor a /home/mysuer folder is being creatted. Umhh ... what am i missing ?
• 970[13:38:11] <fr0xk> bipul, That's easy $ sdiff file1 file2 | colordiff
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• 973[13:39:19] <fr0xk> jordila, $ adduser --home /home/newuser2 newuser2
• 974[13:41:11] <bipul> fr0xk, And then ? How would i create a separate file?
• 975[13:41:58] <fr0xk> bipul, It will ask you for a new name
• 976[13:42:06] <bipul> If the file1 and file2 contains 50000 lines each one then?
• 977[13:42:19] <fr0xk> bipul, try it
• 978[13:42:24] *** Joins: pvdp (~pvdp@replaced-ip)
• 979[13:42:26] <fr0xk> and let us know
• 980[13:42:47] <bipul> Not possible to me to scroll up and down to find un matched data
• 981[13:43:15] <bipul> sdiff and vimdiff is good to see and visualize
• 982[13:43:45] <bipul> But i don't see for the large data
• 983[13:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1132
• 984[13:44:20] <fr0xk> bipul, What kinda data is that? I would use diff
• 985[13:44:32] <fr0xk> with some sed and awk
• 986[13:46:15] <bipul> fr0xk, I have to make in this format replaced-url
• 987[13:46:53] <fr0xk> Got it. It could be possible to do so via diff+awk+sed
• 988[13:46:53] *** Joins: nix64bit (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 989[13:47:06] <bipul> Fetching a data is not so much important, but to fetch it with reason wise is important
• 990[13:47:20] <fr0xk> and sort+uniq
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• 993[13:47:40] <bipul> fr0xk, How?
• 994[13:48:09] <bipul> region wise
• 995[13:48:26] <fr0xk> awk 'FNR==NR {if ($0 ~ /^sg-/) v[h,$1]=1; else h=$1; next} !/^sg-/ {h=$1; print; next} !v[h,$1]' file-2 file-1
• 996[13:48:30] <fr0xk> Like that ^
• 997[13:48:31] <fr0xk> xD
• 998[13:48:35] <fr0xk> U already did
• 999[13:49:05] <dutchfish> bipul, have you tried comm -1 -2 [file1] [file2] ?
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• 1002[13:49:41] <fr0xk> looks like comm can do that :)
• 1003[13:50:02] <fr0xk> comm - compare two sorted files line by line
• 1004[13:50:05] <bipul> Yes, i tried that awk code, but it does not get me the output, it list me the only the name of region.
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• 1006[13:50:30] <bipul> I'm using GNU bash, version 4.3.48(1)-
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• 1008[13:50:43] <fr0xk> bipul, Tried comm?
• 1009[13:50:58] <fr0xk> dutchfish suggested
• 1010[13:52:20] <fr0xk> comm can do that
• 1011[13:52:58] *** Quits: yunhao94 (~yunhao94@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1012[13:56:12] <dutchfish> i am not sure however, if the input files need to be sorted first for comm to work. You have to test that.
• 1013[13:56:37] <fr0xk> dutchfish, I forgot about comp xD
• 1014[13:56:42] <fr0xk> comm
• 1015[13:56:43] <fr0xk> cF
• 1016[13:56:44] <fr0xk> xD
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• 1019[13:57:51] <dutchfish> fr0xk, it can be handy for git's output ;)
• 1020[13:58:01] <fr0xk> yeah xD
• 1021[13:58:09] <fr0xk> dutchfish,
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• 1128[15:47:19] <emilengler> I want to switch to debian but I want newer software and no backports, what do you recommend more ? Testing or Unstable/Sid
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• 1131[15:48:40] <dvs> emilengler, then not debian
• 1132[15:49:19] <f0x> emilengler: I'd recommend Sid
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• 1140[16:03:42] <Delf> How do I create a custom "locale"?
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• 1157[16:14:53] <dutchfish> Delf, it is outdated, however it gives you a rough idea on howto start replaced-url
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• 1159[16:15:51] <dutchfish> Delf, also replaced-url
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• 1169[16:24:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1139
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• 1173[16:34:03] <Delf> Thanks
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• 1188[16:48:12] <Tashtari> Hi all. Does anyone know of an external fan controller with a driver in linux so you can use it with fancontrol? :)
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• 1236[17:34:43] <wr> am getting this error replaced-url
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• 1243[17:38:19] <wr> nevermind... solved it
• 1244[17:38:55] <jolt> wr: Never seen something like that before. What was it?
• 1245[17:39:31] <wr> jolt have no idea
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• 1247[17:40:06] <wr> jolt removed stuff, installed it again and works now
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• 1252[17:51:16] <hipodilski> hi anyone using debian sid testing with gnome flashback?
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• 1254[17:51:36] <hipodilski> my desktop icons disappered after upgrade from stable
• 1255[17:52:09] <n4dir> !debian-next
• 1256[17:52:09] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
• 1257[17:52:13] <n4dir> rather there.
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• 1259[17:53:40] <YesMan> Hello
• 1260[17:55:03] <hipodilski> unfrotunately this channel is invite only
• 1261[17:55:15] <nkuttler> !oftc
• 1262[17:55:15] <dpkg> OFTC is the Open and Free Technology Community, a support/collaboration service. They have an IRC network: irc.oftc.net. You may be connected to OFTC's network. replaced-url
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• 1266[17:55:40] <YesMan> My resolve.conf is being reset at startup. Could a dhcp configured interface could do that? What is the good way of choosing a primary dns ?
• 1267[17:56:41] <nkuttler> YesMan: configure your dhcpd accordingly?
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• 1269[17:57:39] <nkuttler> alternatively, there are some dhclient hooks, never used those myself though
• 1270[17:57:50] <YesMan> Yeah but it's an isp box, can't change the dns unless it is a local server
• 1271[17:58:23] <nkuttler> probably man 5 dhclient.conf
• 1272[17:58:34] <wr> jolt, also have this one replaced-url
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• 1274[17:59:11] <nkuttler> or man dhclient-script
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• 1290[18:19:59] <lovepopsickle> is the debian kernel 100% percent open source? I have heard and seen conflicting answers
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• 1298[18:24:57] <nkuttler> lovepopsickle: debian removes non-free firmware, so yes, it should be
• 1299[18:25:07] <nkuttler> is your cpu open source? probably not..
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• 1302[18:28:54] <hipodilski> any idea how can i downgrade my gnome to stable from testing?
• 1303[18:29:14] <lovepopsickle> nkuttler, not asking about the cpu asking about the os. I obviously know hardware is a different issue
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• 1310[18:33:17] <nkuttler> hipodilski: that would be an upgrade
• 1311[18:34:22] <hipodilski> nkuttler: i tried upgrade but no luck
• 1312[18:34:55] <hipodilski> i have updated sources.list with stable repos
• 1313[18:35:22] <nkuttler> hipodilski: what are you trying to do?
• 1314[18:35:55] <nkuttler> oh.. wait..
• 1315[18:35:57] <nkuttler> !downgrade
• 1316[18:35:57] <dpkg> Downgrading is not, nor will ever be supported by apt. Programs change their data in a way that can't be rolled back, and package maintainer scripts support upgrades to new config file formats but not downgrades. Try: "dpkg -i olderversion.deb" or "aptitude install package=version" using "apt-cache policy package" to get the old version number. See also <partial downgrade>, <unstable->testing>, <sdo>.
• 1317[18:36:14] <nkuttler> !remove gnome
• 1318[18:36:14] <dpkg> To remove or purge GNOME 2.x: aptitude remove ~nlibgnome ~nlibbonobo2 ~nliborbit2 ~nlibgnomeui ~nlibgnomevfs2. Use 'purge' instead of 'remove' if that's what you want (ask me about <purge>).
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• 1322[18:36:42] <nkuttler> hipodilski: you can try to remove gnome, remove testing sources, apt-get update, aptitude remove ~o
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• 1327[18:37:28] <nkuttler> you will probably also want to remove everything in ~/.gnome* ~/.gconf* and wherever gnome stores data nowadays
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• 1330[18:39:25] <hipodilski> nkuttler: any idea how to remove gnome
• 1331[18:39:34] <nkuttler> hipodilski: what the bot said
• 1332[18:39:36] <hipodilski> I tried with a fresh user and there is no desktop icons either
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• 1347[18:55:29] <awal1> hipodilski, try this command " aptitude purge `dpkg --get-selections | grep gnome | cut -f 1` " (without " ")
• 1348[18:55:51] <awal1> then "aptitude -f install"
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• 1352[18:56:51] <awal1> big part of gnome will be purged; continue cleaning manually purging residues
• 1353[18:57:23] <awal1> find them via "dpkg -l"
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• 1357[18:57:50] <awal1> well, that is just a suggestion
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• 1359[18:58:49] <awal1> dpkg: remove gnome
• 1360[18:58:49] <dpkg> To remove or purge GNOME 2.x: aptitude remove ~nlibgnome ~nlibbonobo2 ~nliborbit2 ~nlibgnomeui ~nlibgnomevfs2. Use 'purge' instead of 'remove' if that's what you want (ask me about <purge>).
• 1361[18:59:13] <awal1> ^ no will not work with gnom3
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• 1376[19:11:39] <hipodilski> awal1: I'll give it a try
• 1377[19:11:57] <hipodilski> these guys from gnome are crazy how comes gnome 3.30 doesn't have icons
• 1378[19:12:34] <hipodilski> awal1: I have no aptitude ..
• 1379[19:12:39] <hipodilski> newer debians use apt instead
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• 1381[19:12:46] <Kohlrabi> apt install aptitude
• 1382[19:13:15] <hipodilski> Kohlrabi: it removes apt
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• 1385[19:13:23] <Kohlrabi> It doesn't really matter that much, sometimes aptitude's solutions might make more sense
• 1386[19:13:55] <Kohlrabi> hipodilski: No it doesn't. :O
• 1387[19:14:54] <awal1> hipodilski, use apt-get instead of aptitude
• 1388[19:15:17] <dutchfish> awal1, incorrect
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• 1390[19:15:41] <awal1> dutchfish, incorrect what?
• 1391[19:15:50] <dutchfish> awal1, aptitude works fine
• 1392[19:15:58] <awal1> right
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• 1394[19:16:29] <awal1> i meant he can use apt-get for purge gnome, if he doesn't have aptitude yet
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• 1397[19:16:45] <dutchfish> awal1, fair enough
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• 1399[19:18:01] <awal1> hipodilski, try if you can enable icons via 'gnome-tweak-tool'
• 1400[19:18:09] <dutchfish> awal1, on some occasions, apt-get purge can take down more then you wanted, contrary apt-get tho; bare that in mind
• 1401[19:18:11] <hipodilski> awal1: tried already its not working
• 1402[19:18:21] <hipodilski> i red online a bunch of articles they just removed the icons
• 1403[19:18:36] <hipodilski> no possibility to enable desktop icons except through nemo
• 1404[19:18:47] <hipodilski> and that's shit because icons can't be even moved around the desktop
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• 1406[19:19:18] <hipodilski> that's insane really
• 1407[19:19:22] <awal1> dutchfish, apt-get can behave crazily during purges right
• 1408[19:19:32] <awal1> that is why i suggested aptitude first
• 1409[19:19:40] <dutchfish> awal1, ok
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• 1411[19:20:54] <awal1> hipodilski, don't use gnome, easy
• 1412[19:21:23] <awal1> it is open source, it's devs want it like that, they are free to proceed so.
• 1413[19:21:23] <Kohlrabi> One of the twelve steps :D
• 1414[19:21:46] <awal1> if you dont like dont use it, you have other choices
• 1415[19:21:49] <hipodilski> by the way the gnome-tweak-tool in sid doesn't provide the gnome-tweak-tool binary ..
• 1416[19:21:52] <awal1> me i just use a wm
• 1417[19:21:58] <hipodilski> that's another shit
• 1418[19:22:19] <nkuttler> does apt support ~o? only reason i have aptitude even installed
• 1419[19:22:26] <hipodilski> awal1: I use gnome already for 10 years haven't found better so far
• 1420[19:22:36] <hipodilski> awal1: window maker?
• 1421[19:23:16] <awal1> hipodilski, openbox + a few extra apps i need
• 1422[19:23:24] <awal1> i also use fvwm sometimes
• 1423[19:23:50] <nkuttler> i3 here
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• 1426[19:24:05] <hipodilski> awal1: i'll give it a try
• 1427[19:24:16] <awal1> ~o is aptitude specific, nkuttler
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• 1430[19:24:28] <awal1> why/why-not also
• 1431[19:24:32] <awal1> ...
• 1432[19:24:34] <nkuttler> awal1: thought so
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• 1435[19:24:54] <awal1> for an advanced user, aptitude is mandatory
• 1436[19:24:56] <nkuttler> hipodilski: you can also install aptitude to the job you need done, and then re-install apt..
• 1437[19:25:17] <nkuttler> i have apt, apitude and apt-get installed though, not sure why you have a problem with that
• 1438[19:25:22] <nkuttler> still mixed releases?
• 1439[19:25:38] <awal1> apt is not mature yet, it can cause troubles
• 1440[19:26:19] <awal1> new apt i mean
• 1441[19:26:30] <nkuttler> i wouldn't know, haven't seen a need for it yet
• 1442[19:26:37] <awal1> they should name it differently
• 1443[19:26:54] <nkuttler> i guess that ship has sailed
• 1444[19:27:06] <fr0xk> awal1, apt is good for daily use, but not for system upgrade
• 1445[19:27:09] <Kohlrabi> it's basically a frontend for apt-get and apt-cache in one tool
• 1446[19:27:17] <Kohlrabi> I had zero problems with it
• 1447[19:27:27] <Kohlrabi> Always produced the saem solutions as apt-get
• 1448[19:27:30] <Kohlrabi> same*
• 1449[19:27:49] <nkuttler> combining tools that do different things into one? that sounds unix-y..
• 1450[19:27:50] <fr0xk> apt is perfectly usable in my experience
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• 1452[19:28:33] <diogenes_> and ha a nice progress bar :)
• 1453[19:28:38] <Kohlrabi> nkuttler: It's not like they added networking, DNS, user management, etc. to it, right? :D
• 1454[19:28:38] <diogenes_> has*
• 1455[19:28:48] <nkuttler> Kohlrabi: not yet!
• 1456[19:29:04] <nkuttler> i don't like the apt search either. why three lines of output per package, i don't need that..
• 1457[19:29:17] <Kohlrabi> I wonder whether systemd will integrate emacs first, or the other way round
• 1458[19:29:43] <nkuttler> emacs would become a better os with an init system i guess
• 1459[19:30:28] <awal1> nkuttler, use --names-only
• 1460[19:30:48] <awal1> for search, if that was what you meant
• 1461[19:31:03] <awal1> search exact words
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• 1515[20:21:17] <grobi> sorry
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• 1520[20:26:30] <D|nA> try systemctl poweroff
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• 1525[20:29:21] <karlpinc> grobi: If you want to reboot: systemctl reboot Powering off and rebooting are 2 different operations.
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• 1527[20:31:05] <silverballz> does anyone still use 'shutdown -r now' to reboot?
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• 1530[20:33:58] <jezebel> me
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• 1533[20:34:21] <karlpinc> I don't care much for apt. And apt-cache is fine, but what the hell is "madison" and "dotty". The man page does not say, and who wants to start looking for packages to install just so you can read their man page to find out what the "madison" format is?
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• 1536[20:35:18] <silverballz> ya its been really difficult to stay on top of all the updates these past few years but i think we'll all catch up eventually
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• 1539[20:37:26] <n4dir> hopefully before the next shiny new changes ...
• 1540[20:37:33] <silverballz> lol ya
• 1541[20:37:40] <karlpinc> silverballz: I doubt we'll catch up. Nobody seems to be able to tell me how to use systemd to setup a boot that's exactly like the default boot but with a single service left unstarted. They'll tell me how to have the daemon start and then stop, but not how to keep it from starting at all so that I can start it later by invoking another systemd target. I suspect the way to do it is to frob something based on /usr/lib/systemd/, but it
• 1542[20:37:40] <karlpinc> I've a feeling it'd be really messy.
• 1543[20:37:54] <bites> karlpinc: what are you talking about? the apt-cache man page is pretty clear what dotty and madison are.
• 1544[20:38:42] <karlpinc> bites: Only kinda-sorta. At least as I read it.
• 1545[20:38:58] <bites> pretty clear to me.
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• 1549[20:40:00] <bites> dotty creates a dependency graph that can be displayed by dotty from graphviz and madison: "It displays available versions of a package in a tabular format."
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• 1553[20:43:07] <silverballz> im not much help when it comes to systemd yet but i have been using kde-config-systemd which gives a nice gui to help show whats running on startup and what is not. Probably not the ideal way to learn how to use systemd but is a time saver for me.
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• 1557[20:44:50] <silverballz> bites: does dotty show dependency based on what the maintainer writes or is it based on what the package actually needs to run?
• 1558[20:45:33] <silverballz> I've found a number of packages that need other dependencies that are not actually required
• 1559[20:47:58] <bites> silverballz: apt-cache only know what's in the package metadata. namely what the control file.
• 1560[20:48:25] <bites> silverballz: if you find dependencies missing, file a bug report.
• 1561[20:48:33] <silverballz> For example in the KDE system settings when using the Debian default libinput i have less and more restricted settings than i do if i revert back the evdev driver that gives KDE advanced settings for keyboard and mice imputs
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• 1563[20:49:10] <silverballz> thats by design. it would be closed within an hour of posting the bug report bites
• 1564[20:49:21] <karlpinc> bites: Does the graphviz format have a name so that somebody can look up the structure? What's in the madison tabular format? I can guess, but... And the last "column" isn't separated from the rest by a delimiter, or the last 2 columns depending on how you want to define "column". Etc. If it was documented it could be relied on as something stable, or at least this gives some assurance. My point is, the apt-cache docs just don't
• 1565[20:49:22] <karlpinc> live up to standards. That's my opinion.
• 1566[20:50:25] <bites> karlpinc: that really does not belong in a man page.
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• 1568[20:50:50] <karlpinc> bites: It's in the ps page, and all the other pages I regularly work with.
• 1569[20:51:12] <karlpinc> bites: If not in a man page, where you go to find out how to use the program, then where?
• 1570[20:51:27] <bites> it explains exactly how to use it.
• 1571[20:51:53] <karlpinc> bites: Not worth arguing about. I've not even filed a bug report. And I guess offtopic here anyway. I'll stop now.
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• 1576[20:56:51] <taliptako> hello while i try to install php-fpm it gives me a error php-fpm.conf didnt found
• 1577[20:56:54] <jezebel> karlpinc… manpages give you an overview generally, try info for any gnu projects (/usr/share/info), /usr/share/doc for more documentation or the project's website
• 1578[20:57:01] * n4dir guesses that looking at apt-cache show madison-lite or it's manpage might give a hint ...
• 1579[20:57:22] <jezebel> there might be a separate docs package for some packages
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• 1585[20:59:46] <bites> if you want to know abot dotty's format, you go to the graphviz docs, not the apt-cache man page. if you want to know the format apt-cache madison uses, you run the command once and you see it.
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• 1589[21:02:19] <jezebel> bites… yeah, that makes sense, it's an output format supported by the tool, not the originator of the format
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• 1600[21:21:06] <Gerowen> Hmmm, trying to install Gnome shell extensions with Firefox, I click the slider to "On", it asks if I want to install it, then the slider just kicks over to "Off" and it doesn't show up in the tweak tool.
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• 1608[21:28:38] <taliptako> i deleted /etc/php folder
• 1609[21:28:44] <taliptako> how can i restore it ?
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• 1631[21:49:12] <brenlae> i just wanted to point out how much i like debian 9.5, i have been using debian for over a year now and i much prefer it to windows 10, less ram intensive and more readily responsive
• 1632[21:49:26] <brenlae> and open source, :)
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• 1635[21:50:21] <Blondie101010> taliptako: did you try running: dpkg-reconfigure php7.2
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• 1638[21:54:46] <brenlae> bye for now :)
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• 1647[21:59:24] <waydot> hm, interesting, i have opposite experience
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• 1650[22:00:36] <taliptako> Blondie101010, yes same
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• 1652[22:01:41] <Blondie101010> taliptako: what does `apt-get install php7.2` give you?
• 1653[22:02:25] <taliptako> replaced-url
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• 1663[22:04:52] <n4dir> taliptako: no experience with such, but the web proposes the option: apt-get -o Dpkg::Options::="--force-confmiss" install --reinstall <package-name>; you found that solution already and tried it ? i guess yes. If not: search the web for it.
• 1664[22:04:52] <n4dir>
• 1665[22:05:07] <n4dir> or wait for someone who *does* know that it won't burn the house down ...
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• 1667[22:06:28] <taliptako> i dont understand in the clean debian 9 installation there is no config file in /etc/php
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• 1669[22:06:40] <taliptako> and if u install php-fpm it will be installed
• 1670[22:06:44] <taliptako> with no problem
• 1671[22:06:52] <taliptako> its same now with me but im having this error
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• 1673[22:07:50] <taliptako> n4dir, what this will do
• 1674[22:09:09] <n4dir> well: --reinstall will reinstall the package (duh), and the dpkg-option: --force-confmiss will force to reinstall missing config file. That's how i understand it (like said: i got no experience with it at all). replaced-url
• 1675[22:09:46] <n4dir> the link is just one result. if you search for "debian reinstall missing config file" you will find a few threads which speak of it (and hopefully one will explain it well ... )
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• 1677[22:10:19] <n4dir> i assumed that "--reinstall" will reinstall the config file on it's own, i checked the web, and seem to have been wrong ...
• 1678[22:15:13] <taliptako> n4dir, yes its kind a get the new config file
• 1679[22:15:23] <taliptako> but probably only for php7.0-fpm
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• 1681[22:15:35] <taliptako> now php7 fpm started byt
• 1682[22:15:36] <taliptako> replaced-url
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• 1684[22:15:40] <taliptako> check these logs
• 1685[22:15:50] <taliptako> extansions doesnt work
• 1686[22:16:21] <taliptako> for extensions it says Not replacing deleted config file /etc/php/7.2/mods-available/ftp.ini but actually it should replace
• 1687[22:16:52] *** Joins: leru (~leru@replaced-ip)
• 1688[22:20:00] <abrotman> which packages did you try to reinstall?
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• 1691[22:22:27] <taliptako> abrotman, every
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• 1693[22:23:05] <abrotman> that's vague, please don't make me guess
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• 1697[22:24:39] <taliptako> php7.0-common
• 1698[22:25:45] <silverballz> how come in your logs you are using php 7.2 for apache?
• 1699[22:26:04] <silverballz> with* not for sorry
• 1700[22:27:05] <taliptako> no nginx
• 1701[22:27:35] <abrotman> taliptako: should be php7.2-common from what your paste implies above
• 1702[22:28:04] <taliptako> i should force the all packages with their dependencies to replace config files
• 1703[22:28:54] <taliptako> i believe that apt-get -o Dpkg::Options::="--force-confmiss" install --reinstall <package-name> this command only do it for the package that i write
• 1704[22:29:22] <silverballz> apt-get install --reinstall php7.2
• 1705[22:29:26] <taliptako> but this command also installing its dependencies
• 1706[22:29:36] <taliptako> and they dont replace config files
• 1707[22:29:49] <abrotman> You'll have to explicitly list them
• 1708[22:30:01] <taliptako> abortman, okay
• 1709[22:30:06] <abrotman> or purge the packages completely, and reinstall
• 1710[22:30:20] <taliptako> abrotman, it doesnt work nobody understand me
• 1711[22:30:38] <taliptako> i completely removed all packages
• 1712[22:30:45] <taliptako> all php packages and install them
• 1713[22:30:55] <taliptako> it give error that php-fpm.conf didnt found
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• 1715[22:32:25] <silverballz> May we see the exact error "it" gave you? what is 'it' by the way? apt, aptitude, synaptic, etc
• 1716[22:32:36] <abrotman> did you purge all the packages? or just the main package?
• 1717[22:32:55] <taliptako> abrotman, all the packages with this command sudo apt remove php*
• 1718[22:33:05] <silverballz> thats why!
• 1719[22:33:11] <silverballz> remove doesnt remove config
• 1720[22:33:20] <silverballz> do what abrotman said and purge
• 1721[22:33:37] <silverballz> apt purge php.
• 1722[22:33:40] <silverballz> or php*
• 1723[22:34:30] <taliptako> shit
• 1724[22:34:37] <abrotman> I tihnk you mean "Oops"
• 1725[22:34:54] <taliptako> i waste my time for this problem
• 1726[22:34:55] <taliptako> :(
• 1727[22:35:19] <silverballz> happens to the best of us thats for sure
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• 1731[22:36:02] <taliptako> then why the heck we use remove we should always use purge
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• 1733[22:36:24] <Blondie101010> you normally shouldn't and it's not a guaranteed solution, but try it
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• 1735[22:36:50] <silverballz> sometimes you may want to keep the configs if they were modified...
• 1736[22:37:02] <silverballz> but shhhh i agree lol
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• 1739[22:38:13] <taliptako> thank you guys so much
• 1740[22:38:24] <taliptako> i learned new thing here i wasnt know that
• 1741[22:38:35] <taliptako> so it worth :D
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• 1751[22:47:06] <silverballz> abrotman: I have two questions for you sir, what do you like most about the debian OS? and In your opinion what project is getting the most deserve attention?
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• 1755[22:50:10] <abrotman> what?
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• 1758[22:52:30] <taliptako> why we cant use emojis here :D
• 1759[22:52:35] <silverballz> What do you like most about the Debian operating system. And what debian maintained project is getting the most deserved attention?
• 1760[22:53:13] *** Quits: CyberHacker (~CyberHack@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 1761[22:53:38] <silverballz> the second ones harder to ask but i guess it doesnt exactly have to be debian maintain... like wayland for instance could be an answer... along with secure boot. etc
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• 1767[22:54:48] <abrotman> projects or packages?
• 1768[22:54:54] <silverballz> either :)
• 1769[22:55:00] <abrotman> they're different
• 1770[22:55:10] <silverballz> indeed, its up too you
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• 1786[23:09:51] <silverballz> I'm asking because for at least the ten years that i've been coming here, you my friend have always been on top of things and help as many as possible. So i wanted to challenge you with a question like how you challenge us to not give up when there is a learning curve :p
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• 1789[23:11:32] <taliptako> ten years ? !!
• 1790[23:11:34] <serdes> Hi
• 1791[23:11:34] <taliptako> really
• 1792[23:12:00] <format_c> Hi serdes
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• 1795[23:12:31] <serdes> I cant boot into my debian os on my other hard drive :/ Only truth debian rescue mode
• 1796[23:12:50] <silverballz> It's a difficult question that most of us are faced every day when we use Debian. But I love the idea that makes Debian tick... which is to be as free and universal as possible. For me this makes the possibilities endless for an operating system and the community does a very well job and making everything very foundational.
• 1797[23:12:59] <serdes> I have 2 disks. One with Windows 10 and the other one with Debian
• 1798[23:13:44] <serdes> After I formated disk with Windows 10. Grub disappeared
• 1799[23:13:54] <Blondie101010> that is normal
• 1800[23:13:58] <serdes> Now I dont know how to fix it
• 1801[23:14:01] <format_c> yep
• 1802[23:14:21] <Blondie101010> you'll need to boot from an external drive and reinstall grub
• 1803[23:14:31] <abrotman> !fixgrub
• 1804[23:14:31] <dpkg> To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2), mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ; mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target), run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub && grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>.
• 1805[23:14:53] <abrotman> silverballz: Dunno, I guess it's always just worked for me. (or mostly so)
• 1806[23:14:58] <Blondie101010> nice factoid
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• 1808[23:15:53] <serdes> abrotman: My Linux OS is encrypted with LVM. Does that make any different?
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• 1810[23:16:31] <Blondie101010> it sure does
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• 1812[23:16:58] <serdes> What should I do then?
• 1813[23:17:38] <serdes> I mean, should I follow the !fixgrub guide anyway?
• 1814[23:17:43] <Blondie101010> I was prepared to give you steps to do what the bot just said but I'm not familiar enough with debian and encryption, sorry
• 1815[23:18:51] <Blondie101010> but you'll need to boot the live install disk either way
• 1816[23:19:02] <Blondie101010> the problems will come up when you try to mount the volume
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• 1820[23:20:22] <Blondie101010> serdes: a quick Google search gave this result which looks promising: replaced-url
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• 1823[23:22:26] <serdes> Why were the grub installed on my second disk anyway and not the same disk?
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• 1825[23:22:52] <Blondie101010> are you using EFI?
• 1826[23:22:55] <serdes> Disk 1: Windows 10. Disk 2: Debian. Disk 1: Grub
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• 1828[23:23:34] <serdes> Blondie101010: How do you find out?
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• 1830[23:24:20] <serdes> Blondie101010: Do you mean the installation USB? Then yes
• 1831[23:24:47] <Blondie101010> that's not it but I don't think Win 10 works without it so we'll assume you do
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• 1833[23:27:02] <Blondie101010> the answer to your question is that Windows just cares about itself on install and doesn't bother in preserving other boot details
• 1834[23:27:20] <EdePopede> serdes: happened to me too years back when i installed... i think it was squeeze? but i had an unusual disk config so i thought that would have been the problem - master:dvd, slave:xp (yes, IDE), debian on usb.
• 1835[23:28:13] <serdes> Blondie101010: Do you why grub were installed on the windows hard drive? And not the same hard drive were I installed debian?
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• 1839[23:30:47] <Blondie101010> serdes: plenty of information in the wiki: replaced-url
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• 1841[23:31:48] <VeryStableGenius> so kodi was removed from testing?
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• 1843[23:32:08] <eraldev> hello)
• 1844[23:32:52] <serdes> Blondie101010: Im sorry, I dont know what to look for. Is there no easy answer to that? :)
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• 1856[23:38:03] <Blondie101010> serdes: it's not possible to give a straight answer since we don't know your previous setup, but there was obviously some boot information on the drive you installed Windows on
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• 1858[23:39:00] <Blondie101010> do you know if there was any partition on it when you installed Windows?
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• 1861[23:40:53] <serdes> Blondie101010: I have no idea.
• 1862[23:41:22] <Blondie101010> lets hope that you have the necessary partitions on your Debian disk
• 1863[23:41:31] <serdes> I installed windows 10 *let us name it* disk 1. Then I installed debian with lvm encryption on disk 2. Everything worked fine. But today I removed all partitions from disk 1 (windows 10) and reinstall windows 10.
• 1864[23:41:56] <Blondie101010> and you don't know how many or what partitions you removed?
• 1865[23:42:04] <serdes> Blondie101010: No
• 1866[23:42:41] <serdes> Blondie101010: I first thought it wouldnt matter. That the grub was installed on the same disk (disk 2).
• 1867[23:43:06] <serdes> That disk 1 have nothing to do with it.
• 1868[23:43:16] <Blondie101010> well boot the install disk and take a look at what you have
• 1869[23:45:12] <serdes> Blondie101010: Are you talking about disk 2 (with debian)?
• 1870[23:45:38] <Blondie101010> no a USB drive
• 1871[23:45:52] <Blondie101010> well you can try to boot the 2nd drive but I doubt it'll work
• 1872[23:45:56] <Blondie101010> (but it could)
• 1873[23:46:13] <serdes> No it dont. I cant even find it in Bios
• 1874[23:46:34] <Blondie101010> that's strange
• 1875[23:46:46] <Blondie101010> you don't see the drive detected?
• 1876[23:46:52] <serdes> Nop
• 1877[23:47:10] <Blondie101010> boot a USB drive
• 1878[23:47:40] <serdes> Do you mean rescue mode?
• 1879[23:48:39] <Blondie101010> I'm not sure what you're talking about
• 1880[23:48:54] <Blondie101010> boot the Debian install drive
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• 1882[23:49:21] <serdes> The USB?
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• 1884[23:49:32] <Blondie101010> yes
• 1885[23:49:47] *** Joins: grobi (~rtng@replaced-ip)
• 1886[23:50:45] <serdes> Sorry not mean to be rude. But then what? What should I do?
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• 1888[23:51:57] <Blondie101010> are you presently on the same machine?
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• 1892[23:54:08] <Blondie101010> I mean to talk on IRC
• 1893[23:55:44] *** Quits: uppik (~uppik@replaced-ip) (Quit: QRT)
• 1894[23:56:38] <serdes> Blondie101010: No
• 1895[23:56:55] <Blondie101010> good
• 1896[23:57:38] <Blondie101010> then just boot and it and try following the link I gave you: replaced-url
• 1897[23:57:50] <Blondie101010> if you have issues, search them or ask here
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