• 0[00:00:27] <Gerowen> What is the approved method for checking whether a hard drive spins down when not in use? A USB external one in this case.
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• 2[00:02:22] <ritmo> spins down?
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• 4[00:02:52] <ratrace> Gerowen: maybe with hdparm
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• 7[00:03:10] <Gerowen> ritmo: Yeah, like when a drive is not in use, I want it to spin down so it's not just sitting there running when it's not being used.
• 8[00:03:20] <n1c0de> Hi! (Gnome Shell Extension) How to set the label of a PopupSwitchMenuItem after creating the object ? "switch.set_label('myLabel');"
• 9[00:03:20] <n1c0de> replaced-url
• 10[00:03:29] <Gerowen> ratrace: That's what I was thinking, but I've never fooled with it. I'll have to read up on it because I don't even know if it's a service, a command you can issue, etc.
• 11[00:04:58] <ratrace> Gerowen: command and package of that name
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• 31[00:23:35] <gvth> Hi; I have a question regarding pinging a server when WiFi is being used. When I ping a server, occasionally I get this as output: "ping: sendmsg: No buffer space available". Which buffer is filled and how can I avoid that?
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• 36[00:27:27] <Gerowen> Apparently there are some factory default settings for it to spin down, so I'm going to leave it alone unless I notice it's not spinning down.
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• 41[00:30:41] <sponix2ipfw> gvth: don't use wifi
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• 45[00:33:38] <gvth> apollo13: I try to avoid WiFi. I am using wired ethernet at the moment. But occasionally I am forced to use WiFi in places.
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• 48[00:36:50] <terr_> If anyone cares.... looks like you can install windows in an extended partition - you just need an NTFS primary for the boot loader (which in my case will be GRUB)
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• 59[00:46:14] <terr_> Question - and I think I know the answer. If I install debian and related partitions as logical partitions in an extended partition will this affect performance. I think not.
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• 61[00:47:07] <ratrace> terr_: it won't. but why not use GPT
• 62[00:47:33] <Luser0> @ratrace but that would be too useful
• 63[00:48:09] <ratrace> this ain't twitter yo
• 64[00:48:23] <ratrace> !@
• 65[00:48:24] <dpkg> @ is used to separate the username from the hostname in an email address, to denote channel operators on IRC, and to direct comments to particular users in some web forums. It is NOT used to direct comments on IRC; use "name: ..." instead of "@name ...".
• 66[00:49:03] <Luser0> twitter? no I know more of MUD than twitter
• 67[00:49:17] <Luser0> Understood, the same
• 68[00:49:26] <ratrace> DikuMUD I think had @, yeah
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• 73[00:50:48] <Luser0> Moo.. the original
• 74[00:51:16] <ratrace> good old times
• 75[00:52:02] <Luser0> Well, Moo fracked Emacs when you compiled them together... yikes
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• 77[00:52:51] <Luser0> But, if you had the right web.... you could find objects that should never have been constructed.
• 78[00:53:59] <Luser0> Wasn't this one of the reasons Debian avoided any of the objects, pragmas or client types with relation to Standford originally?
• 79[00:54:11] <Luser0> Stanford**
• 80[00:54:14] <ratrace> what!
• 81[00:55:03] <Luser0> Beside not accepting any of the mutated frameworks from Microsoft, initially. Avoiding object trees into Knuth ... excepting Lex was a basic tenet, no?
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• 83[00:55:28] <Luser0> All ancient history, now.
• 84[00:55:56] <Luser0> Most of those developers are six feet under, also.
• 85[00:56:42] <terr_> ratrace, I wanted to. BUT. I read 32 bit windows 7 cannot access GPT. I have TWO machines I am working on right now - and both are 32 bit. (others are 64) and I see on the 2nd machine that the HDD in fact has a 16 MB partition labeled EFI. It is not being used. There is also a 100 GB NTFS partition that ALSO is not being used.
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• 87[00:58:13] <terr_> rare_energy, on the other system I see a 100 MB NTFS also not being used. What are these for? On one machine its "system reserved" and on hte other its not labeled
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• 93[01:00:59] <ratrace> terr_: too bad you heard and never tried to check the facts.... replaced-url
• 94[01:01:36] <terr_> ratrace, I DID check and it was I think from M$
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• 96[01:01:46] <ratrace> meh.... anyway, it doesn't affect performance
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• 98[01:03:16] <terr_> ratrace, the detail is from a 32 bit machine windows 7 (and I believe 10 also) cannot BOOT using GPT. 64 bit if the BIOS supports EFI
• 99[01:04:24] <terr_> I guess they cannot add EFI if its not in the bios. I don't know why. One should be able to extend the BIOS and add anything... just store it like its an initrd file
• 100[01:05:08] <terr_> I need to be able to boot on 32 bit machines.
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• 102[01:06:04] <terr_> and stupid windows. It it was Linux I'm sure the OS can tell if its living on 64 bit or 32 bit and use the appropriate drivers
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• 117[01:15:20] <nyov> don't overthink the partitioning stuff. It has no relevance once it runs, whether the stuff's on GPT or old-style partitions.
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• 122[01:18:06] <terr_> muov I have to live with lots of restictions... I found docs that my 32 bit computers cannot boot from an EFI/GPT system and the 64 bit machines? I don't yet know if they can or can't.
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• 124[01:19:09] <nyov> unless they're EFI bios machines, why do you care?
• 125[01:20:05] <terr_> nyov, I think they might be. THey are I5 machines... HP/Del - those should be new enough.
• 126[01:20:42] <nyov> I used to go to the trouble of partitioning disks GPT with compat MBR. I think it's called hybrid MBR. but really, it didn't get me anything for fixed system disks, so I don't care anymore
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• 128[01:21:50] <terr_> but maybe it doesn't matter. I can install any of the operating systems in an MBR machine. This drive is 1 TB. I have another is 2TB. I'll need IEF/GPT for anything larger and I don't need it right now.
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• 130[01:22:59] <terr_> but - I can use a big drive for backups. with 6 machines it makes sense for me to buy big and keep multiple backups and rotate through my safety deposit box.
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• 234[02:50:34] <terr_> This doesn't make sense to me: A swap file should be considered too, as they do not have any performance overhead compared to a partition but are much easier to resize as needed.
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• 269[02:58:19] <ksk> imho the filesystem does make an additional overhead
• 270[02:58:47] <ksk> but as swap is like "really slow" compared to ram anyways, it might not be too important..
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• 275[03:03:05] <sponix> ksk: that gap is _better_ with SSD storage vs spinners... still sucks compared to real ram though of course
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• 277[03:03:31] <terr_> ksk, I agree. file system should be slow. /swap should be fast. But they say the opposit
• 278[03:04:05] <terr_> sponix, ya - need a real ram swap disk. They make em
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• 280[03:05:47] <terr_> I shoujld be able to place /swap prior to / (root) and this should reduce head travel - right?
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• 287[03:08:28] <terr_> replaced-url
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• 290[03:10:10] <sponix> terr_: in 2020 running swap off a spinning disk is kinda a WTF thing anyway. Should be doing some type of SSD for the OS and Swap
• 291[03:10:42] <terr_> I think in my case I would want a relatively small / (root) for the linux O/S and support files. maybe like 128 GB and put everything else in an extended partition.
• 292[03:11:05] <terr_> sponix, I do not need the speed.
• 293[03:11:07] <sponix> why does it need to be extended ?
• 294[03:11:21] <terr_> If I do I can add an SSD to one of the towers
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• 296[03:12:37] <terr_> also if I do I'll likely need it for windows and I'll be using a windows only 3D modeling package like say Autocad Fusion 360. (uggh) I am trying Freecad now
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• 298[03:13:03] <sponix> I quit using a separate partition for "swap" a while back -- doing a /swapfile on / or hell wherever you want - at whatever size you want -- is a LOT more flexible
• 299[03:13:07] <joepublic> windows,windows,windows
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• 301[03:13:40] <dadinn> hi all
• 302[03:14:07] <terr_> I need MBR (I think) and I need /boot [efi] [c:] [ext - contains linux partitions]
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• 306[03:15:00] <dadinn> I have an issue with Debian
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• 308[03:15:58] <dadinn> specifically the new unstable release, Buster... it has changed to something LUKS2 format for encrypted devices, which actually breaks all my installer scripts.
• 309[03:16:22] <dadinn> question: is there a way to dissable this default LUKS2 madness?
• 310[03:16:23] <terr_> one of my systems which I think came from ASUS is partitioned [10gb - unused][efi 16mg - unused][c: 100gb - used][d: 123GB - formatted 0% used]
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• 312[03:16:41] <dadinn> make everything go on as before with LUKS1
• 313[03:16:49] <sponix> terr_: one 256MB or so fat32 EFI partition can be used for both Linux and Windows if needed. and /boot can live right there on / it doesn't need its own partition
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• 316[03:18:10] <dadinn> I never had any issue with LUKS1, but actually not being able to log in to my freshly installed machines is something which is a showstopper
• 317[03:18:17] <terr_> sponix, OH! That is what I need to know. I thought it was desirable to be on its own.
• 318[03:18:20] <sponix> dadinn: odd, last I check Buster was the current "stable" branch. And at least my installs of 10.1 didn't default to any LUKS crap (or I told it not to)
• 319[03:18:59] <sponix> terr_: you are the classic case of over doing it IMHO...
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• 321[03:19:23] <dadinn> replaced-url
• 322[03:19:32] <sponix> terr_: BUT, I also don't dual boot anything, because that is too complex for my simple mind :)
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• 325[03:19:54] <terr_> sponix, I probably should look to NTFS because I am going to want windows system images (snapshots) and I can't put them on anything orther than NTFS (more M$ POS reasoning)
• 326[03:20:06] <dadinn> sponix: it is written there that LUKS2 format is the new shit, and it is not coming out of your ass, but going up in
• 327[03:20:10] <terr_> sponix, I likely will have to.
• 328[03:21:28] <dadinn> sponix: grub2 doesn't seem to support it, which manifest for me in the lovely experience that typing in the passphare on boot keeps failing... no comment
• 329[03:21:30] <sponix> terr_: Seems you might want to rethink things. If MOST of everything you do requires Windows - and you just want to play around with Linux to learn and stuff. You could do your Host OS as Windows 10 or whatever, and just put Debian 10 in a Virtualbox VM to play with (or to even host server services that aren't to be trusted on windows)
• 330[03:21:37] <terr_> sponix, this is a backup HDD - its not even a production drive. In fact I will be able to simply use dd and copy the whole shiteroo to a bigger drive which I already have
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• 333[03:22:08] <terr_> otehr way around
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• 335[03:22:20] <sponix> terr_: "clonezilla" can come in handy, just saying -- dd is nice, but clonezilla can be good also
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• 337[03:22:50] * sponix goes to pull down the most recent Buster net install iso
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• 339[03:23:17] <terr_> sponix, I moved off windows about 1997 and swore never again. I _might_ need to use windows for some 3D modeling... but... NOT IF I CAN HELP IT
• 340[03:23:55] <dadinn> All my Archlinux friends are telling me I am mad sticking with Debian, but I always answered it is the stability for my cluster... seems like times change :/
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• 343[03:24:15] <dadinn> Sorry needed to rant this shit, after spending my weekend on this crap
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• 345[03:24:35] <terr_> I know windows 7 pro and windows 7 basic (= stupid) can live in 100 GB. I am thinking 100 GB for a decent debian should be damn fine
• 346[03:24:50] <terr_> shit - last drive I install linux on was 80 GB
• 347[03:25:21] <joepublic> Arch info: replaced-url
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• 349[03:25:32] <enthdegree> what does a usual LD_LIBRARY_PATH look like?
• 350[03:25:56] <enthdegree> like, where should i expect userspace libs to put their shared objects
• 351[03:26:09] <terr_> dadinn, I don't knwo about archlinux. I just found some docs to read. I tried ubuntu and almost puked. They didn't even have gcc in it.
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• 353[03:26:17] <terr_> Debian has the stuff I need.
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• 356[03:26:52] <joepublic> ubuntu does not have gcc in it. interesting.
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• 359[03:27:44] <enthdegree> should they all be in /usr/lib/[my architecture]
• 360[03:28:05] <terr_> joepublic, not the version I tried - but it was over years ago. I am just getting into this now! My life has been a PHD'ing mess for over 3 years now. You guys will not believe
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• 362[03:28:14] <dadinn> terr_: sudo apt install build-essential
• 363[03:28:34] <sponix> joepublic: not out of the box by default
• 364[03:28:41] <terr_> If I keep my partions small - for the operating systems - then I can copy to a USB and move them easily.
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• 366[03:28:47] <dadinn> terr_: that seems to install gcc, g++, make
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• 369[03:29:10] <terr_> ya - I am not interested in ubuntu
• 370[03:29:11] <sponix> dadinn: I don't do anything with crypto -- I avoid it because it is the quickest and easiest way to lose data - IMHO
• 371[03:29:12] <joepublic> they have gcc in it, even if it's not one of the packages you have installed
• 372[03:30:12] <joepublic> I am not endorsing ubuntu, just don't want to spread false rumors
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• 374[03:30:41] <terr_> I need to think on this. But - will a 64 GB /(root) with /home in its own partition work well?
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• 376[03:31:27] <joepublic> if you don't save, create, nor download anything, that's plenty
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• 379[03:31:31] <terr_> If I have a size that matches a USB or SD then I can use dd to move it around and likely there is better.
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• 381[03:31:48] <sponix> terr_: sure, that is more than enough for /
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• 383[03:32:24] <joepublic> my / is at 15.4GB right now, and I am not too conservative as to what I install; /home is off on its own
• 384[03:32:35] <terr_> on the last install I has /(root) and then set up /home and /home2 and /dbms and backup was fine - using it - bit of a problem.
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• 386[03:33:18] <terr_> I still use SCSI tapes. DLT is 70GB. I KNOW those tapes will last! We still read tapes from the 1960's
• 387[03:33:39] <dadinn> sponix: I don't think so
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• 389[03:34:34] <terr_> joe - 64GB USB and SD are quite cheap. Like I think CDN$35 for a fast one.
• 390[03:35:03] <terr_> too bad exabyte 8mm are so small - I have likely over 100 sitting here
• 391[03:35:38] <terr_> I had about 100 Seagate 5.2" SCSI 9GB hard drives also. We thought they were BID
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• 393[03:35:42] <terr_> BIG
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• 396[03:36:29] <terr_> well - if I allocate a 128 GB partition I can even likely mount (home) in it.
• 397[03:37:14] <sponix> terr_: sure
• 398[03:37:27] <terr_> so I get a backup drive with MOST allocated to a D: partition for Winders shit and a fully workable Linux system
• 399[03:37:46] <terr_> If its a D: drive I know I can mount it in linux. I've done this before
• 400[03:37:49] <sponix> terr_: is it a tower you are running on ?
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• 404[03:39:22] <terr_> Both. I have 2 laptops that I'm working with now and 2 I5 towers - nice thing about the towers is they are transition machines and have the old interfaces like ture parallel and serial and so forth - PLUS lots of slots for legacy PCI (SCSI cards and so forth)
• 405[03:40:00] <terr_> But I have 3 PC-Engines Alix boards and web servers on OpenBSD as well.
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• 407[03:40:31] <terr_> Plus a Raspberry Pi... and I should be able to access this terabyte drive on EVERYTHING
• 408[03:40:45] <sponix> fun
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• 411[03:41:17] <dadinn> so does anyone know how to change the default settings in Buster, so that it uses LUKS1 instead of LUKS2?
• 412[03:41:18] <sponix> terr_: what web server do you run on OpenBSD ?
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• 415[03:42:26] <terr_> apache and I run mySQL as well. In linux both mySQL and Postgres and I have Oracle as well and HATE IT.
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• 417[03:43:15] <terr_> I told the government of Canada... I can make Oracle work. But anything I write will run on Postgres so that you can save moiney and have something that works without a support contract.
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• 419[03:43:45] <sponix> terr_: seems legit
• 420[03:43:59] <terr_> Government of Canada is not worried about money. PHd - they print it.
• 421[03:44:18] <sponix> dadinn: I'll spin up yet another vm, and see if there is anything about that in the advanced install options
• 422[03:44:26] <terr_> Oh it is. Governmment gave me a copy
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• 427[03:47:04] <terr_> I am going for a walk. I have run out of candies. And I need to think on this. a separate 16 or say 32 GB [boot, /boot. whatever else I like - say a maintenance copy of say linux] might make sense because its going be to very lonely on TB+ drives and I can copy and boot from USB elCHEAPos
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• 438[03:52:25] <terr_> hmm maybe this [/boot 16GB - so I can create/copy to and backup Boot USB's for maintenance][/ 64GB - for a workable small linux test partition][100GB - 128GB for windows (uggh) if I really really need it][say 800GB for an ext partition NTFS so its /data in linux and D: in windows] and I guess I can put swap in here too
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• 450[04:01:27] <nyov> what's not what /boot is for. /boot is for the bare minimum to bootstrap the linux system, like kernel and ramdisk files. only root should have file access. 64GB is total overkill for that
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• 452[04:01:56] <nyov> sorry. 16GB. still overkill
• 453[04:02:09] <sponix2ipfw> nyov: and why I normally just let /boot live on / because I'm too lazy to split it off (and its not needed)
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• 455[04:02:28] <nyov> right
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• 457[04:03:03] <dadinn> sponix: OK, actually it seems that during luksFormat if i use --type luks1 it will at least work on Buster... on Stretch there is no --type option in the manual, but it doesn't throw an error either, so it might be backward compatible too :/
• 458[04:03:51] <dadinn> sponix: by working on Buster I mean that I managed to install Grub, and reboot it, without any changes, and it worked
• 459[04:03:51] <sponix> dadinn: glad you are making progress
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• 464[04:04:58] <dadinn> sponix: so the issue is that Buster sets some cryptsetup defaults, and uses LUKS2 format... and Grub doesn't know what to do with it, so it fails on boot
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• 466[04:05:42] <dadinn> sponix: I think rushing this LUKS2 format thing into stable release was a bit hasty
• 467[04:06:13] <dadinn> sponix: especially considering the most stable filesystem, ZFS, with native encryption, is still only in backports :'(
• 468[04:06:13] <sponix> dadinn: seems you have the knowledge to file a bug report on it, letting them know about the issue(s)
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• 470[04:06:54] <sponix> dadinn: I'm using that zfs from backports to do most of my storage as we speak :)
• 471[04:07:34] <dadinn> sponix: i am a newcomer here, how do I do that? Also it's 3am, and I am waking up in 3 hours... so maybe next time :P
• 472[04:07:48] <dadinn> sponix: really, root on ZFS?
• 473[04:08:20] <sponix> dadinn: nope, I don't do zfs on root lol .. I just have a 5 x 1TB raidz, and then my new 12TB drive as a zfz pool also
• 474[04:09:05] <sponix> I don't do anything fancy, no lucks, no encryption, no zfs /root ... just some plain old ext4 for the OS, and ZFS for most of my storage needs
• 475[04:09:21] <dadinn> sponix: if you are interested in ZFS root, I have this script here: replaced-url
• 476[04:09:44] <sponix> dadinn: I actually have NO idea how to file a bug report to Debian. I just started doing support _here_ recently
• 477[04:10:12] <sponix> Normally I'm schooling n00bz in the LinuxMint help chat
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• 480[04:10:56] <dadinn> sponix: ZFS root works quite well on stretch, but I want the encryption, and that needs buster-backports... but buster seems to fuck up the LUKS support so I am fixing it up :(
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• 482[04:11:30] <nyov> zfs on linux on luks. eeek. :p
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• 484[04:12:07] <sponix> dadinn: well.. I'm sure the debian.org website links to filing bug reports. When you get the time an energy, you should do that, could keep others from running into the same issue(s)
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• 486[04:13:00] <dadinn> nyov: well, my current ZFS pool (raid10) is on LUKS... that's horrible
• 487[04:13:13] <sponix> nyov: for me the advantage of zfs is I can just point it at the whole damn drive, push the button, and expect it to never lose my data -- I keep it simple
• 488[04:13:19] <dadinn> nyov: but the native encryption solves that issue
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• 490[04:14:22] <dadinn> nyov: for that usecase, simply try hitting that single drive with a hammer... even ZFS will lose your data :P
• 491[04:14:42] <nyov> what kind of memory does it take? I hear zfs is quite memory-intensive in some ways
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• 493[04:15:12] <dadinn> nyov: you give it memory then...
• 494[04:15:14] <sponix> nyov: lol .. most of that was a couple years back, and you just had to set one sysctrl.conf flag to keep in in check
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• 497[04:15:43] <sponix> sysctl.conf that is
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• 499[04:16:00] <dadinn> nyov: also, it needs tons of memory they say, but mostly if you use dedup... which you don't
• 500[04:16:08] <sponix> nyov: but yes, they recommend 1GB per TB of storage with ZFS
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• 506[04:16:50] <nyov> might consider switching an mdadm raid6 array, which also lives on luks. but it runs on 1.5Gb ram and I fear zfs wouldn't be cool with that
• 507[04:17:42] <sponix> nyov: I've got 32GB of Ram, and about 20TB or so of ZFS storage allocated at the moment.. I can tell you it isn't using 20GB of my ram to do it :)
• 508[04:18:02] <dadinn> nyov: that is highly recommended against, mdadm or any raid controller will hide stuff from ZFS... it needs direct access to the disks
• 509[04:18:30] <nyov> well, I wouldn't run zfs on mdadm. that's just insane
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• 511[04:19:32] <nyov> but I'll wait for a hardware upgrade first
• 512[04:19:36] <dadinn> anyways, good night guys... thanks for the chat!
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• 514[04:19:45] <sponix> dadinn: have a good one
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• 527[04:29:50] <terr_> dadinn, thanx as well. You were a great help
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• 534[04:34:58] <terr_> Well I'm back. I was thinking - yes 16GB for /boot is waayyy overkill. BUT - if I want a rescue USB I can use dd to make it - problem: I probably want to make it FAT32 I sure don't need exFAT nor NTFS and I will want windows to be able to access it.
• 535[04:35:01] *** leden_ is now known as leden
• 536[04:35:28] <terr_> well - maybe. I don't know how these partitions will map into windows - and I figure poorly
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• 538[04:35:55] <terr_> If you expect next to nothing from windows you will not be disappointed
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• 549[04:39:53] <terr_> if linux and windows share a partition - how does the file system map in. Like do I see c:/home in windows and \home in linux... or do I have to do mounts or configs? Clearly I will find out but if someone can gice me a head up then great. I can reciprocatre with yogurt and beer
• 550[04:42:02] <terr_> I'm going to be talking to arduinos... via same as a pipe. if I create a GCode file in windows I can run it trough a filter - but in fact I'll write my own code to do this because I need real time... and I'ver actually got that code running.
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• 626[05:53:35] <nvz> I'm trying to backport audacity using ssb but its saying E: Can not find version '2.2.2-1' of package 'audacity' E: Unable to find a source package for audacity
• 627[05:54:03] <nvz> it only works doing apt -b source audacity when I have a buster sources line, bullseye or sid only gives those errors
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• 631[05:55:31] <nvz> and it does it with apt-get as well.. so I doubt its something in apt that broke ssb
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• 634[05:57:07] <nvz> a more recent version is in buster-multimedia but I'm trying to avoid using that
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• 644[06:06:34] <terr_> nvz. I still have to partition a new HDD. Then I get a REAL OS
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• 671[06:36:17] <terr_> either everyone went home or I forgot to have a shower.
• 672[06:36:23] <terr_> no one is here.
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• 676[06:41:20] <sponix2ipfw> nvz: you still there?
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• 709[07:32:28] <jelly> nvz: pastebin the output of "apt-cache showsrc audacity"
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• 764[08:19:27] <reddy999> bash: /usr/bin/apt: cannot execute binary file: Exec format error
• 765[08:19:39] <reddy999> can anyone help with that error?.
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• 768[08:19:59] <reddy999> please
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• 771[08:20:18] <themill> what does "file /usr/bin/apt" say?
• 772[08:20:40] <reddy999> cannot execute binary file
• 773[08:20:47] <jm_> joy
• 774[08:20:53] <jm_> can you execute anything?
• 775[08:21:00] <reddy999> yeah
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• 777[08:21:17] <reddy999> I'm executing ruby
• 778[08:21:38] <jm_> does 'ldd /usr/bin/apt' work?
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• 780[08:22:19] <reddy999> can u say how to upgrade to amd64 bit
• 781[08:22:36] <themill> yeah, that's not actually a thing
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• 783[08:22:52] <jm_> replaced-url
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• 786[08:23:21] <themill> reddy999: have you by any chance tried to do something like that already?
• 787[08:23:38] <jm_> sounds very much like 32bit kernel with 64bit tools
• 788[08:23:44] <themill> yeah
• 789[08:23:51] <reddy999> yeah same here
• 790[08:24:21] <reddy999> kernel says 32bit but appplications are 64bit
• 791[08:24:29] <themill> copy out the data and reinstall it is likely the simplest approach then
• 792[08:24:39] <reddy999> okay
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• 797[08:26:58] <reddy999> dpkg: error: unable to create new file '/var/lib/dpkg/arch-new': Permission denied
• 798[08:26:58] <dpkg> You are person #1 to send an unparseable request, reddy999
• 799[08:27:20] <reddy999> wt does it mean?
• 800[08:27:36] <reddy999> how can I access permissions
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• 802[08:29:42] <jm_> it sounds like you're only going to mess it up some more by doing random things, but anyway, /var/lib/dpkg is writable by root only (also ensure it's not mounted ro)
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• 810[08:33:11] <reddy999> I'm not getting wt u said
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• 812[08:33:32] <themill> "stop trying to break your machine" is the simplest way of putting it
• 813[08:33:35] <jm_> it's best if you do what themill proposed earlier
• 814[08:34:23] <reddy999> okay :)
• 815[08:35:57] <jelly> wow, people are still running 32bit kernels?
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• 819[08:37:03] <interf4ce> bonjour
• 820[08:37:54] <reddy999> apertium@vbox:~$ sudo su
• 821[08:37:54] <reddy999> [sudo] password for apertium:
• 822[08:37:54] <reddy999> root@vbox:/home/apertium# dpkg --print-architecture
• 823[08:37:54] <reddy999> i386
• 824[08:37:54] <reddy999> root@vbox:/home/apertium# dpkg --add-architecture amd64
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• 827[08:38:15] <reddy999> bash: /usr/bin/apt: cannot execute binary file: Exec format error
• 828[08:38:17] <reddy999> root@vbox:/home/apertium#
• 829[08:40:07] <ayekat> reddy999: please use a paste service for that sort of thing
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• 880[09:03:16] <colo-work> ,v dovecot
• 881[09:03:17] <judd> No package named 'dovecot' was found in amd64.
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• 883[09:03:31] <colo-work> ,v dovecot-core
• 884[09:03:33] <judd> Package: dovecot-core on amd64 -- jessie: 1:2.2.13-12~deb8u4; jessie-security: 1:2.2.13-12~deb8u7; stretch: 1:2.2.27-3+deb9u5; stretch-security: 1:2.2.27-3+deb9u5; stretch-backports: 1:2.3.4.1-5+deb10u1~bpo9+1; buster: 1:2.3.4.1-5+deb10u1; buster-security: 1:2.3.4.1-5+deb10u1; bullseye: 1:2.3.7.2-1; sid: 1:2.3.7.2-1
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• 926[09:26:20] <annadane> how does one call mate-notification-daemon?
• 927[09:26:53] *** Parts: bbt (~bbt@replaced-ip) ()
• 928[09:27:07] <annadane> i want it to autostart with openbox but i can't directly invoke it from the shell
• 929[09:29:33] <Ede|Popede> annadane: if you have it running you could look into htop or ps for the commandline
• 930[09:29:36] <ayekat> annadane: notification daemons auto-start when there is a message for them on dbus
• 931[09:29:48] <ayekat> annadane: no need to manually start it
• 932[09:30:03] <Ede|Popede> there's *anything* related running per default?
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• 948[09:40:29] <annadane> i assume you can disable that on a per-notification daemon basis
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• 957[09:44:00] <ayekat> possibly - would probably require tinkering around with dbus, but I'm not very familiar with that
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• 959[09:48:26] <annadane> they apparently live in /usr/share/dbus-1/services
• 960[09:48:54] <annadane> though i don't think editing /usr/share is a great idea
• 961[09:49:02] <annadane> i should see if i can do it via some dbus command
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• 963[09:49:35] <annadane> i mean for theoretical purposes anyway, i don't actually want the notification daemon disabled in this case but it's good to know how
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• 984[10:04:08] <manielos> hello
• 985[10:04:32] <manielos> how can i list build dependencies of a package?
• 986[10:05:13] <Haohmaru> you can see them in synaptic, iirc
• 987[10:05:50] <manielos> i'm dockerizing a web app and i need to build some php modules, but i don't know their dependencies, i sorted out i can list them from package manager
• 988[10:06:09] <Haohmaru> yeah but i don't know teh commandz
• 989[10:07:10] <jm_> apt-cache showsrc foo
• 990[10:07:35] <Haohmaru> who would have thought ^
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• 992[10:08:22] <ratrace> jm_ would :)
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• 995[10:08:55] <Haohmaru> but he's a h4x0r
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• 1012[10:21:12] <b1ack0p> sup
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• 1040[10:39:44] <joepublic> hi
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• 1042[10:40:50] <Regor> i use ftp to connect my phone to debian but i need 3 wifi devices so i use oldphone wifi as a hotspot ..but two phones smoothly connect to eachother for filesharing . so which protocol they follow that doesnt need any third wifi(hotspot)? ?
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• 1046[10:43:10] <randompleb> Has the firefox-esr in Debian updated to account for the vulnerability?
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• 1048[10:45:33] <manielos> jm_: thanks!
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• 1051[10:46:41] <jm_> manielos: no problem
• 1052[10:46:53] <jm_> randompleb: yes
• 1053[10:47:02] <randompleb> Alright, thanks
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• 1056[10:47:50] <randompleb> Also, what happens my DHCP lease expires (I'm not using ifup, I'm just using regular dhclient).
• 1057[10:48:49] <randompleb> Does dhclient run in the background so as to renew the lease when it expires? (Because I see a dhclient process running in the background).
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• 1062[10:50:23] <cupcake90> which file debian using to collect time zone, is it old local time or timezone file
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• 1066[10:51:09] <jm_> /etc/localtime is a symlink to timezone file
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• 1069[10:52:29] <cupcake90> jm_: Its not a link file
• 1070[10:52:42] <joepublic> dhclient starts trying to renew at 1/2 of the lease time iirc
• 1071[10:52:51] <randompleb> joepublic: Ok, thanks
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• 1103[11:20:56] <colo-work> so... did Debian Buster drop the Let's Encrypt root certificate from the trust-store bundle that the "ca-certificates-java" package creates?
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• 1111[11:26:09] <jelly> colo-work: unlikely, the bundle is created from whatever mozilla ships pretty much as-is
• 1112[11:27:07] <colo-work> jelly, yeah, but SSLPoke.class (using the default trust store at /etc/ssl/certs/java/cacerts) failed to verifythe trust path to a LE-signed certificate for me, while `openssl s_client` had no such troubles...
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• 1115[11:28:34] <ratrace> I'd sooner trust openssl s_client than a random-online-ssl-test-as-a-service-dot-com.com
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• 1117[11:29:13] <ratrace> and it has begun... confusing random foo.bar notation with a gTLD :)
• 1118[11:29:46] <colo-work> jelly, also, after manually converting the LE root certs to DER and adding them to that trust-store file with `keytool`, "it just works"
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• 1122[11:31:25] <jelly> colo-work: does "keytool -cacerts -storepass changeit -list" not list it? Perhaps there's a different root openssl gets to, not LE's own?
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• 1129[11:34:48] <colo-work> jelly, not in the list afaict
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• 1132[11:35:16] <colo-work> ah
• 1133[11:35:30] <colo-work> openssl resolves the chain to debian:dst_root_ca_x3.pem, Sep 12, 2019, trustedCertEntry,
• 1134[11:35:33] <colo-work> hmmm
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• 1136[11:35:42] <colo-work> maybe the upgrade messed up the intermediate cert
• 1137[11:35:48] <colo-work> (checking...)
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• 1140[11:38:22] <colo-work> yup. my bad. sorry for the noise, jelly :/
• 1141[11:38:30] <colo-work> (and thanks for your input :))
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• 1146[11:43:57] <dka> I am on debian buster and I can't watch video on youtube, it does buff but it refuse to play because the driver that is needed to play video crash. I must reboot. How can I restart this driver without rebooting?
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• 1148[11:44:29] <ratrace> dka: what "driver" is that?
• 1149[11:44:39] <dka> I have no clue, default driver to play video
• 1150[11:44:43] <dka> or codec
• 1151[11:44:55] <ratrace> well first you have to identify what exactly is crashing.
• 1152[11:44:57] <dka> I know it happened once before when connecting a bluetooth speaker, then the video stop playing
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• 1154[11:45:02] <dka> and impossible to play any video on the web
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• 1156[11:45:10] <dka> How can I know, it happen rarely
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• 1160[11:47:53] <joepublic> as I understand the problem "youtube almost always works"
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• 1164[11:48:43] <joepublic> that's most people's experience as well, as i understand it
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• 1166[11:49:52] <ratrace> rough guess here, but it sounds like hw acceleration issue and a problem with the gpu driver
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• 1168[11:50:13] <dka> and this can be restarted?
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• 1170[11:50:24] <ratrace> codecs have no reason to stop working out of the blue unless there's a bug (which would affect everyone) or there's a problem with hardware or the driver for that hardware
• 1171[11:50:45] <ratrace> dka: in general no, if the problem is with the kernel module, there's nothing to restart
• 1172[11:51:00] <ratrace> no service, no command you can issue, and you can't reinit the module
• 1173[11:51:10] <jm_> try starting browser in a terminal and see if it shows any errors
• 1174[11:51:23] <dka> ok. so I'll just restart when that happen
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• 1176[11:51:46] <dka> ńo error when starting google-chrome from terminal
• 1177[11:51:58] <ratrace> dka: you could run the browser from a terminal like jm_ suggested, and when it happens, come here with a pastebin of what oyu think might be relevant from the end of that terminal output
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• 1180[11:52:13] <ratrace> dka: _starting_ but what about when it crashes like you say?
• 1181[11:52:35] <jm_> have you tried any other browser?
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• 1184[11:53:27] <dka> yes all browsers are affected
• 1185[11:53:56] <jm_> so maybe check if other browsers will show more details in terminal, also try checking sessiong and kernel logs
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• 1191[11:56:40] <Haohmaru> a weird sound has been coming out under this huge desk here.. it must be from one of the computers.. it's sounds like a smol ant is hammering a sword or something
• 1192[11:56:46] <Haohmaru> very faint but periodic
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• 1195[11:57:29] <Haohmaru> i noticed it on friday
• 1196[11:57:34] <ratrace> thermal expansion?
• 1197[11:57:44] <ratrace> that usually sounds like smol ants hammering swords
• 1198[11:57:51] <Haohmaru> uh, i doubt
• 1199[11:58:10] <Haohmaru> if something is expanding since friday.. wouldn't it have eggsploded already?
• 1200[11:59:18] <ratrace> it expands, cools, contracts, heats up, expands, etc.... rhytmically, cing .... cing ..... cing ..... smol ant smitthy
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• 1203[11:59:54] <Haohmaru> well, it has a frequency of somewhere between 1 to 2Hz
• 1204[11:59:57] <ratrace> I am btw not joking. I really do suspect thermal expansion
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• 1206[12:00:47] <Haohmaru> could be two ants, each one with a hammer, alternating
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• 1208[12:01:20] <Haohmaru> but the period is pretty consistent
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• 1216[12:05:49] <asymptotically> Haohmaru: is something stuck in one of your computer fans?
• 1217[12:06:21] <Haohmaru> i thought about that, but the period is kinda slow
• 1218[12:06:41] <Haohmaru> i haven't located where it comes from eggzactly, but it's from under the desk
• 1219[12:07:01] <Haohmaru> and it's in the room, cuz the sound is clear
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• 1237[12:12:54] <ratrace> Haohmaru: maybe it's in the desk. smol worms eating wood. that'd be in 1-2Hz range too, though it sounds crunchy, not metallic :)
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• 1239[12:13:36] <Haohmaru> nah, this sounds like a proper smol blacksmit workshop
• 1240[12:13:53] <Haohmaru> CHING, CHING, CHING..
• 1241[12:14:17] <ratrace> they're finally rising against us...
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• 1243[12:14:37] <Haohmaru> we're f*cked
• 1244[12:14:45] <ratrace> btw, slap a "Debian Inside (tm)" sticker on that desk so this won't be offtopicized.
• 1245[12:15:16] <Haohmaru> most of the computers under that desk run debian
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• 1247[12:15:26] <Haohmaru> there are like.. 4 or so
• 1248[12:16:06] <ratrace> on a more serious note, could be a HDD dying
• 1249[12:16:16] <Haohmaru> hm
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• 1251[12:16:37] <ratrace> run a smart attribute check on all of them, see if there's a problem with head retract count or stuff like that
• 1252[12:17:02] <Haohmaru> the HDD in the machine i use for CAD-ing was replaced a few months ago, so it would have to be one of the others (which i don't care about) >:)
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• 1254[12:17:35] <ratrace> Haohmaru: actually HDDs have highest probability to die within first 6 months.
• 1255[12:17:47] <Haohmaru> eh?
• 1256[12:17:50] <Haohmaru> o_O
• 1257[12:18:14] <ratrace> yes. not joking. the probability curve is like U . highest at the beginning, then tapers off, then starts picking up again as it ages
• 1258[12:18:34] <Haohmaru> hm, so they gotta be aged like yellow cheese
• 1259[12:18:51] <Haohmaru> bruh, where is this going
• 1260[12:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1530
• 1261[12:19:11] <Haohmaru> and the yellow cheese in the store is mostly plastic now
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• 1265[12:20:23] <Haohmaru> time to make a drive that uses cheese for storage medium, it might last longer
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• 1267[12:20:50] <ratrace> cheese funghi DNA for storage. Nobel prize pls!
• 1268[12:21:31] <Haohmaru> imma buy two 500GB drives immediately
• 1269[12:21:53] <ratrace> eh 500GB... can you even find that now, unless refurbished/second hand
• 1270[12:22:10] <Haohmaru> i haven't filled mine up yet
• 1271[12:22:26] <Haohmaru> and i haven't even partitioned the whole thing up
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• 1274[12:23:06] <ratrace> I built meself a ZFS mirrored workstation. passed 500GB the other day.
• 1275[12:23:06] <HaMsTeRs> Hi Guys, I"m using Kvantum with GlassKV + KVGlass theme, I'm having a hard time tuning my KDE desktop. After fixed the dolphin blurry thing, I found that not all my applications follow the blurry rule. (Eg. Libre Office)
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• 1312[12:48:52] <wsm> debian should upgrade libreoffice
• 1313[12:49:08] <Haohmaru> i think you can get a new-ish one from backports
• 1314[12:49:18] <Haohmaru> ,v libreoffice
• 1315[12:49:19] <judd> Package: libreoffice on amd64 -- jessie: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u11; jessie-security: 1:4.3.3-2+deb8u13; stretch: 1:5.2.7-1+deb9u10; stretch-proposed-updates: 1:5.2.7-1+deb9u11; stretch-security: 1:5.2.7-1+deb9u11; stretch-backports: 1:6.1.5-3+deb10u4~bpo9+1; buster-security: 1:6.1.5-3+deb10u4; buster: 1:6.1.5-3+deb10u5; buster-backports: 1:6.3.4-2~bpo10+1; bullseye: 1:6.3.4-2;
• 1316[12:49:20] <judd> experimental: 1:6.4.0~beta1-4; sid: 1:6.4.0~rc2-2
• 1317[12:50:16] <wsm> i dont really trust backports, and i have not used any backports
• 1318[12:50:32] <Haohmaru> *shrug*
• 1319[12:50:34] <wsm> libreoffice debian version is like 6.1...
• 1320[12:50:39] <Haohmaru> i use backports
• 1321[12:50:56] <wsm> but in libreoffice.org debian packages 6.3.4
• 1322[12:51:04] <ratrace> !sns
• 1323[12:51:05] <dpkg> Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>.
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• 1325[12:53:19] <JackFrost> Debian did update libreoffice - in backports...
• 1326[12:53:30] <wsm> should i use debian backports
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• 1330[12:54:37] <Haohmaru> you are free to do anything
• 1331[12:55:13] <wsm> haohmaru, can backport cause errors or something like that
• 1332[12:55:20] <Haohmaru> shouldn't
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• 1335[12:56:11] <Haohmaru> i've used libreoffice from backports back in debian9, cuz there was a nasty bug
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• 1337[12:56:23] <joepublic> backports don't get security updates in general
• 1338[12:57:06] *** Joins: elkalamar__ (~elkalamar@replaced-ip)
• 1339[12:57:29] <jelly> in general no. But some maintainers/backporters care more, and some care less.
• 1340[12:57:31] <wsm> so, carry on to libreoffice.org deb packages
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• 1343[12:58:40] <ratrace> wsm: you can use snapd and install the libre office snap. maybe there's a flatpak of it too
• 1344[12:59:00] <joepublic> I would use backports before "snap and flatpak"
• 1345[12:59:04] <ratrace> even though I dislike snapd, it's way better than installing third party debs
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• 1347[12:59:31] <ratrace> joepublic: I wouldn't due to no guarantees for security
• 1348[13:00:04] <joepublic> right, I wouldn't snap or flatpak due to no guarantees of security.
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• 1351[13:00:36] <joepublic> those sources are completely outside debian's control
• 1352[13:00:43] <wsm> what is wrong with third party debs... they are on official website
• 1353[13:00:56] <wsm> libreoffice.org
• 1354[13:00:57] <joepublic> wsm, essentially nothing.
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• 1356[13:01:22] <joepublic> we are arguing fine points, not usability. In my experience libreoffice from their website works fine.
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• 1360[13:01:45] <ratrace> can't disagree there.
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• 1362[13:02:16] <ratrace> except what's wrong with third party debs is the same argument given against snaps (valid or not) :: outside of debian's control
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• 1365[13:02:41] <ratrace> with snaps at least the packaging is containerized and can't affect your entire system. third party debs can wreack havoc on your system
• 1366[13:02:52] <ratrace> (snaps or flatpaks, whatever the poison of your choice)
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• 1368[13:03:11] <joepublic> however, the libreoffice third party debs up to now are not known to wreak much havoc, it must be noted
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• 1370[13:04:21] <ratrace> well, debian OpenSSH was super secure until that ONE time where it wasn't :) point is, with .debs there's potential for hosing up the entire system. with containerized delivery that potential is much, much smaller if it exists at all.
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• 1373[13:05:07] <wsm> so we come to : no system is safe
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• 1375[13:05:27] <joepublic> That containerization comes with some reduction in features. For example, a flatpak program can't open a document from e-mail because it comes via /tmp which flatpak studiously ignores.
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• 1379[13:05:44] <ratrace> doesn't that depend on the gateways or permissions you give to the flatpak?
• 1380[13:05:57] <ratrace> gateways or whatsitcalled.... interfaces? forgot...
• 1381[13:05:58] <joepublic> Foo and fie on flatpak and the horse it rode in on, use something else, was my solution actually
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• 1384[13:07:14] <ratrace> then again, I have apparmor policy on my Firefox that prevents launching any program, so that "reduction" in features is a bonus actually, in my case :)
• 1385[13:07:48] <jm_> as in upstream firefox?
• 1386[13:08:07] <joepublic> I just open documents from email frequently enough in my work that it was a significant problem
• 1387[13:08:28] <ratrace> jm_: Debian's packaged firefox.
• 1388[13:08:57] <ratrace> joepublic: right, so different use cases have different demands.
• 1389[13:09:16] <joepublic> exactly so.
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• 1392[13:10:00] <ratrace> and now wsm is empowered with different views and use cases, to select what fits best for their needs ;)
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• 1394[13:10:21] <joepublic> so there you go wsm, any further questions?
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• 1398[13:10:50] <wsm> thank you all
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• 1400[13:11:06] <Haohmaru> can u dig the freedom of choice ;P~
• 1401[13:11:07] <rmrfchik> debian on kernel 5.4.0-3-amd64 feels so jerky comparing to 4.19.0-5-amd64
• 1402[13:11:18] <rmrfchik> lagging mouse, skipping music
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• 1404[13:11:28] <joepublic> turn back :)
• 1405[13:12:00] <rmrfchik> well, i keep old kernel. but at some point there will be no 4.19 anymore
• 1406[13:12:03] <Haohmaru> what kind of mouse?
• 1407[13:12:09] <rmrfchik> usual, usb
• 1408[13:12:14] <Haohmaru> aww
• 1409[13:12:24] <rmrfchik> x11
• 1410[13:12:48] <joepublic> I am running a linux-libre 5.4 kernel which doesn't show those problems, but admittedly it's not a debian kernel
• 1411[13:13:06] <varnaud_> I'm looking for a simple image viewer that allow basic editing like changing image orientation. Any suggestion?
• 1412[13:13:09] <Haohmaru> move the mouse in a reciprocal way so that the cursor doesn't glitch around
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• 1414[13:13:47] <rmrfchik> varnaud_, imagemagik?
• 1415[13:13:55] <Haohmaru> oh noes x_x
• 1416[13:14:07] <joepublic> varnaud_, maybe ristretto
• 1417[13:14:15] <joepublic> it has rotate and save features
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• 1419[13:14:34] <joepublic> imagemagick is the least simple image viewer I know of :)
• 1420[13:15:10] *** Parts: wsm (5e7aa816@replaced-ip) ()
• 1421[13:15:20] <ratrace> well the _viewer_ part is simple, the rest not so much
• 1422[13:15:32] <Akuw_> hi, i am reading a guide to create .deb files, but i have a package that only has 2 directories, but does not has any control file or somethings, so the question is, some packages only has folder structures and can be installed?
• 1423[13:16:09] <joepublic> .deb files are non-trivial to create, unfortunately
• 1424[13:16:15] <jm_> what do you mean has no control files?
• 1425[13:16:26] <Haohmaru> maybe there's no program in it
• 1426[13:16:31] <varnaud_> joepublic, ristretto is just what I needed, thanks
• 1427[13:16:36] <joepublic> peace.
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• 1429[13:17:00] <Akuw_> Haohmaru: it has 2 binary files
• 1430[13:17:12] <Akuw_> but there are not scripts pre and post
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• 1432[13:17:37] <Haohmaru> oh
• 1433[13:17:40] <jm_> you don't always need pre and post scripts, but control file has to exist
• 1434[13:17:42] <Akuw_> so i guess debian package system when read that kind of file only create the same structure?
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• 1436[13:18:10] <Akuw_> yes like this document says replaced-url
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• 1439[13:18:40] <joepublic> lo dice en español :)
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• 1442[13:19:23] <Haohmaru> moi no schprachen ze italiano
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• 1444[13:19:35] <ksk> amtssprache ist deutsch.
• 1445[13:19:42] <joepublic> very polyglotty.
• 1446[13:20:05] <ratrace> Poly Glotty, sounds like one of my ex gfs
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• 1448[13:22:37] <ratrace> Oooh, a chromium DSA. So CVE, much vulnerable.
• 1449[13:22:51] <Akuw_> but what happen if control is not there? because i can install that packages anyway (i did)
• 1450[13:22:54] <Haohmaru> pics?
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• 1454[13:24:15] <CrazyTux> I have installed KVM. When I tried to install a distro in KVM, I got an error. Here it is. replaced-url
• 1455[13:24:19] <CrazyTux> Please help
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• 1459[13:25:09] <joepublic> it says you don't have qemu-img
• 1460[13:25:09] <jm_> do you have qemu-utils installed?
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• 1463[13:25:12] <jelly> Akuw_: every binary .deb package has a control file, without exception
• 1464[13:25:26] <CrazyTux> jim, I don't know
• 1465[13:25:32] <jm_> install it first
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• 1467[13:25:36] <CrazyTux> jim, how to check that?
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• 1470[13:26:01] <jm_> CrazyEddy: it's jm_, not jim -- dpkg -s qemu-tools
• 1471[13:26:08] <jm_> qemu-utils
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• 1503[13:28:05] <CrazyTux> jm_, so, I need to install qemu-utils? shall I install it through synaptic?
• 1504[13:28:14] <jm_> CrazyTux: yup
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• 1512[13:28:56] <CrazyTux> jm_, only that single package?
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• 1519[13:29:23] <jm_> CrazyTux: it includes qemu-img
• 1520[13:29:34] <CrazyTux> jm_, ok
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• 1535[13:31:54] <ratrace> The dark side of "The UNIX way" and going too far on the "do one thing well"... so.... without googling.... how do I remove a user from a supplemental group. hint: ain't usermod nor userdel nor groupmod.
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• 1537[13:32:17] <ratrace> ffs I will welcome the day systemd comes up with systemd-userctld
• 1538[13:32:46] <tarzeau> and it'll say it's ok, but do nothing randomly
• 1539[13:32:49] <Haohmaru> or when it becomes self-aware
• 1540[13:32:57] <CrazyTux> jm_, I got this error. replaced-url
• 1541[13:32:59] <themill> ratrace: deluser user group
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• 1543[13:33:35] <ratrace> well I used gpasswd with -d
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• 1545[13:34:17] <jm_> CrazyTux: well does that file exist?
• 1546[13:34:33] <CrazyTux> jm_, which one?
• 1547[13:35:06] <jm_> CrazyTux: 'Cannot access storage file '/home/S/Downloads/Linux Mint 19.3 &quot;Tricia&quot; - Cinnamon (64-bit)/linuxmint-19.3-cinnamon-64bit.iso': No such file or directory'
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• 1550[13:35:33] <ratrace> themill: looking at the manpage but I don't see from it that I can remove a user from a supplementary group. note: I don't wanna delete the user, just remove it from a (suppl) group
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• 1552[13:36:16] <jm_> ratrace: are you looking at deluser or userdel? the former should be able to do it
• 1553[13:36:39] <ratrace> jm_: I'm looking for a command to remove a user from a group.
• 1554[13:36:49] <ratrace> so not to delete the user nor to delete the group, just remove the relationship
• 1555[13:36:55] <jm_> ratrace: yes, I meant in regards to your last comment -- looking at the manpage
• 1556[13:36:59] <ratrace> gpasswd -d does it
• 1557[13:37:05] <CrazyTux> jm_, yes. The file is there.
• 1558[13:37:14] <ratrace> oh.... uhh yeah, wrongpage :)
• 1559[13:37:18] <jm_> :)
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• 1561[13:37:33] <joepublic> nano /etc/group might work as well?
• 1562[13:37:34] <ratrace> no, wait, I was looking at deluser, not userdel
• 1563[13:37:43] <jelly> joepublic: no, no it might not.
• 1564[13:37:44] <themill> deluser has an explicit entry for that
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• 1566[13:37:50] <joepublic> :)
• 1567[13:38:06] <ratrace> oh right "Remove a user from a specific group"
• 1568[13:38:09] <themill> deluser [options] user group "Remove a user from a specific group"
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• 1570[13:38:25] <themill> exactly the same as adduser to add the user to a group
• 1571[13:38:59] <ratrace> systemd-userctld FTWd
• 1572[13:39:13] <jm_> CrazyTux: the name sounds stramge, does it really include &quot; in filename?
• 1573[13:40:18] <CrazyTux> jm_, no. The file has this name. "linuxmint-19.3-cinnamon-64bit.iso".
• 1574[13:41:22] <jm_> CrazyTux: yeah but the directory it's in has that strange &quit; stuff according to the error message, does it?
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• 1582[13:44:04] <jelly> ratrace: because we need a new api for everything that already has or had a perfecty well existing way to do it
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• 1585[13:44:28] <ratrace> jelly: "perfectly" trolololol
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• 1589[13:45:02] <CrazyTux> jm_, I didn't get you.
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• 1592[13:46:59] <CrazyTux> jm_, this is the path to that file. - /home/S/Downloads/Linux Mint 19.3 "Tricia" - Cinnamon (64-bit)/
• 1593[13:48:03] <jm_> CrazyTux: sorry, I'll have to go soon, so it's best if someone else helps you - I am not really sure where the problem is, but seeing &quot; in file path is suspicious, and as you just said, they should not be there, so maybe that's your problem - as a dumb test, try moving (or copying if it's small) that iso to say /var/tmp (without any extra dirst) and try telling virt-manager to grab it from there
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• 1595[13:48:16] <jm_> hopefully that was not too long
• 1596[13:48:39] <CrazyTux> jm_, let me try renaming the folder.
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• 1598[13:49:55] <CrazyTux> jm_, now, I got this error. - Error connecting to graphical console:
• 1599[13:49:55] <CrazyTux> Error opening Spice console, SpiceClientGtk missing
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• 1604[13:50:51] <jm_> CrazyTux: now I really need to go, try installing spice-client-gtk
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• 1606[13:51:04] <CrazyTux> jm_, ok
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• 1675[14:39:53] <Haohmaru> them ant blacksmiths don't get tired ;P~
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• 1680[14:43:14] <ratrace> pour water in the computers, extinguish their forge furnaces
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• 1689[14:50:24] <Urbanecm> Hello, I've recently upgraded to Debian Buster, and tmux started to just print random gibberlish. By googling, I figured out that it is caused by /dev/ptmx is 0600 instead of 0666. I've changed the mode, but something inside Debian seems to re-instante the previous bad permisions. Any idea how to fix this permanently, or what's the proper solution to get tmux running? Thank you
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• 1695[14:53:32] <jelly> Urbanecm: that's weird, it's just fine and 0666 on my buster
• 1696[14:54:02] <Haohmaru> ratrace i'm afraid, what if they stop hammering the swords, and start CNC'ing sharper and stronger swords using the water for cooling
• 1697[14:54:04] <jelly> Urbanecm: are you running things as root that shouldn't be run as root?
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• 1699[14:55:07] <Urbanecm> I don't see anything suspicious here jelly replaced-url
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• 1709[15:03:45] <ratrace> Haohmaru: then you're /usr/sbin/fsck'd
• 1710[15:04:21] <jelly> Urbanecm: yeah, looks pretty normal. What kind of process 1 (init) is that, that it has -z appended?
• 1711[15:04:42] <jelly> Urbanecm: is this a container / vps of some sort?
• 1712[15:04:50] <Urbanecm> jelly: yes
• 1713[15:04:55] <ratrace> the plot thickens
• 1714[15:05:06] <Haohmaru> thicc-ens
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• 1718[15:07:38] <jelly> perhaps the host is messing with your container for some reason
• 1719[15:08:37] <Urbanecm> jelly: is there a way how to rule out that?
• 1720[15:08:52] <Haohmaru> restraining order ;P~
• 1721[15:10:35] <jelly> Urbanecm: which OS and kernel is used for the host and do you have control? What sort of container solution is used?
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• 1724[15:12:53] <Urbanecm> jelly: OpenVZ is used, no, I don't have control over the host
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• 1726[15:14:44] <ratrace> Urbanecm: if I were you, I'd start looking for alternative, KVM based preferably, VPS. OpenVZ is ancient tech and in collision with modern linux distro demands
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• 1735[15:19:36] <Urbanecm> ratrace: migration's in progress
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• 1794[15:56:51] <Akuw_> i used "ar tv chpa_1.4.2_i386.deb" and got this ---> "replaced-url
• 1795[15:57:23] <Akuw_> but when i list the content of that file i cant see control file
• 1796[15:57:33] <greycat> that's because there's a control.tar.gz file instead of a control file
• 1797[15:57:52] <greycat> you can tell that by the way it says control.tar.gz at the end of the second line of your paste
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• 1800[15:58:11] <Haohmaru> x_x
• 1801[15:58:20] <Haohmaru> bind -> blown
• 1802[15:58:26] <Akuw_> yes, but i cant find that file
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• 1804[15:58:42] <greycat> you need to extract it from the .deb file before you can open it
• 1805[15:58:43] <Akuw_> i can see data
• 1806[15:58:59] <greycat> by the way, the *normal* way to extract the contents of a .deb file is with dpkg -x
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• 1808[15:59:04] <Akuw_> is extracted
• 1809[15:59:11] <Akuw_> let me see
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• 1812[15:59:25] <greycat> You did not show any command that performed an extraction. You only showed a command that printed the table of contents.
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• 1849[16:17:14] <Akuw_> greycat: i used dpkg -x but cant see control file
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• 1851[16:18:19] <greycat> That's normal for a dpkg -x extraction. dpkg -x just extracts the files from data.tar.gz, the way you'd want them if you're going to install the actual useful files by hand on a non-Debian system.
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• 1853[16:19:07] <Akuw_> how can i see control file then ?
• 1854[16:19:09] <greycat> If you actually want the file named "control", you need to extract the control.tar.gz from the .deb file, and then extract control from control.tar.gz.
• 1855[16:20:29] <Akuw_> greycat: but the first thing is to extract .deb file, but where is control.tar.gz ?
• 1856[16:21:02] <greycat> If you extract with dpkg -x, you DO NOT GET control.tar.gz.
• 1857[16:21:09] <Akuw_> no
• 1858[16:21:15] <Akuw_> that is the problem
• 1859[16:21:33] <Akuw_> after extract .deb file i got 2 directories only
• 1860[16:21:50] <Akuw_> "/etc and /usr"
• 1861[16:21:56] <greycat> This works, to print the "control" file from inside the two layers of archive: ar p ~/mta-local_1.0_all.deb control.tar.gz | tar xzOf - ./control
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• 1867[16:24:36] <Akuw_> greycat: that works, but why i can´t see it after uncompress, how can i do it?
• 1868[16:24:54] <greycat> man ar
• 1869[16:24:55] <greycat> man tar
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• 1877[16:27:05] <jelly> Akuw_: dpkg -e (or dpkg-deb --control) foo.deb somepath ... will extract control file and scripts into somepath/, it's in the manual right before -x
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• 1879[16:27:30] <Akuw_> jelly: ok, thanks
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• 1882[16:28:35] <Akuw_> cool
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• 1884[16:29:05] <Akuw_> what i dont understand is why i cant see it when i uncompress .deb file
• 1885[16:29:10] <Akuw_> is like it is hidden
• 1886[16:29:29] <greycat> because there is MORE THAN ONE WAY to "uncompress" a .deb file and you have not yet said WHAT YOU DID
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• 1890[16:30:39] <Akuw_> i said
• 1891[16:30:49] <Akuw_> or not
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• 1893[16:31:06] <Akuw_> well, i was using 7zip in another computer
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• 1896[16:31:14] <Haohmaru> aww
• 1897[16:31:16] <greycat> Your original question included a paste that showed a TABLE OF CONTENTS ONLY, *not* an extraction or uncompressing.
• 1898[16:31:31] <Akuw_> ok, i am guilty hehehe
• 1899[16:31:43] <Haohmaru> ur going to jail, son
• 1900[16:31:43] <Akuw_> is very interesting this package system
• 1901[16:31:55] <Akuw_> like everything on linux
• 1902[16:32:01] <Akuw_> thanks jelly and greycat
• 1903[16:33:22] <Akuw_> last question, who create the control file?
• 1904[16:33:44] *** Quits: b1ack0p (~m@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
• 1905[16:33:55] <greycat> The software that creates the .deb, usually.
• 1906[16:34:20] <Haohmaru> robotz
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• 1908[16:35:10] <greycat> If you're working with the "equivs" package, then you may write one by hand, using an example as a template.
• 1909[16:35:22] <Akuw_> ok
• 1910[16:35:47] <Akuw_> i guess, because i have to tell what dependencies
• 1911[16:35:55] <greycat> What are you trying to do?
• 1912[16:36:55] <Haohmaru> brewing a package probably
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• 1915[16:37:50] <greycat> So far my guess is "I'm trying to install a weird-ass ubuntu/ppa .deb package that I found in the trash on a non-Debian system, maybe suse or something, using 7zip"
• 1916[16:38:11] <Akuw_> greycat: i am lerning about creating debian packages, so i get one package to analize
• 1917[16:38:17] <greycat> !nmg
• 1918[16:38:17] <dpkg> The packaging tutorial (replaced-url
• 1919[16:38:19] <nvz> jelly: replaced-url
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• 1922[16:39:42] <Haohmaru> "it's gotta wurk becuz it's .deb"
• 1923[16:39:59] <nvz> re-iterating my question from 9hrs or so ago before I fell asleep: I was trying to backport audacity via ssb and it was saying E: Can not find version '2.2.2-1' of package 'audacity' doing apt -b source audacity (same with apt-get) thats the buster version of audacity its looking for, but I only have a sid sources line
• 1924[16:40:22] <nvz> idk if something in apt broke or what, never had the ssb method fail this way before
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• 1926[16:40:32] <Haohmaru> nvz u slept 9 hours?
• 1927[16:40:51] <nvz> idk.. give or take..
• 1928[16:41:04] <Haohmaru> >:(
• 1929[16:41:04] <nvz> its freezing, I was slightly drunk..
• 1930[16:41:35] <Haohmaru> why do i have the impression that you were in .au?
• 1931[16:42:16] <nvz> idk... I'm plenty dry and not dead from exhaustion/drowning so I'm pretty sure I been nowhere near AU cause it'd be a long swim
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• 1933[16:42:29] <Haohmaru> hm
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• 1936[16:44:09] <Akuw_> !mentors
• 1937[16:44:09] <dpkg> it has been said that mentors is the system the Debian project uses to train new people to become Debian Developers or Debian Maintainers and get their packages into the Debian archive. Ask me about <nmg>. replaced-url
• 1938[16:45:02] <jhutchins> ,v audacity
• 1939[16:45:03] <judd> Package: audacity on amd64 -- jessie: 2.0.6-2; stretch: 2.1.2-2; buster: 2.2.2-1+b1; bullseye: 2.3.3-1; sid: 2.3.3-1; stretch-multimedia: 1:2.1.3-dmo1+deb9u1; buster-multimedia: 1:2.3.2-dmo2; bullseye-multimedia: 1:2.3.3-dmo1; sid-multimedia: 1:2.3.3-dmo1
• 1940[16:45:28] *** Quits: tyranny12 (~blarg@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 1941[16:45:31] <Akuw_> !policy
• 1942[16:45:31] <dpkg> policy is the document that defines how Debian packages should (and must!) interact with each other and with the user to make sure we have a high-quality, stable distribution. You can find it at replaced-url
• 1943[16:45:45] <greycat> If it's for your own personal use, please /msg the bot.
• 1944[16:45:55] <Akuw_> sorry
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• 1946[16:46:51] <nvz> yeah I'm aware there is a buster-multimedia version but I'm not so sure thats a good idea
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• 1948[16:47:24] <nvz> I was just doing some editing of an audiobook and wanted to automate the changes I made, and the audacity in buster doesnt support such macros
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• 1965[16:55:06] <nvz> I figured it'd be a straighforward backport then it was selecting the wrong version for whatever reason.. when I put a buster souce line in, it gets it, but wont with bullseye or sid, still tries to get the buster source and can't find it
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• 1968[16:56:12] <nvz> I haven't used deb-multimedia in ages but last I did it used a lot of strange deps.. I'd rather just build it against stable deps and looks like debhelper is all I'd need to upgrade for it to build
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• 1974[16:57:12] <nvz> I had done two clips, increased the speed, lowered the pitch, added a slight reverb, and did an amplify and now I'd just like to automate the rest of the files with the same settings
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• 2016[17:18:24] <michel-433> cc tout le monde, michel
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• 2022[17:24:36] <nvz> !fr
• 2023[17:24:37] <dpkg> Pour l'aide en francais, veuillez rejoindre le canal #debian-fr or #debian-quebec. Francophone users: for help in french, please go to #debian-fr or #debian-quebec.
• 2024[17:25:44] *** Joins: zerotech1 (~zerotech@replaced-ip)
• 2025[17:25:55] <Haohmaru> je ne gavaryut esperanto
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• 2027[17:27:47] <nvz> meh.. esperanto :P
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• 2031[17:29:01] <jhutchins> So on a network that's supposed to be ipv4 only, netstat shows a bunch of HTTP connections in ipv6 format containing the ipv4 address. Is that expected behavior? I'm guessing ipv6 didn't get disabled when those servers were built.
• 2032[17:29:03] <nvz> Haohmaru: is that line actaully esperanto? cause that word sounds like the Russian verb for "to speak"
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• 2034[17:29:27] <Haohmaru> nvz i was entirely kidding
• 2035[17:30:03] <nvz> Haohmaru: I see.. I dont take esperanto seriously.. I just thought what you said sounded familiar like it was french+russian+spanish
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• 2038[17:30:55] <pcpower> hello everyone, i had installed debian-fork system with encrypted / and /home, but separated unencrypted /boot. Grub failed to install, but there is some files in /boot partition, how should i add it to grub menu entry if grub-mkconfig makes nothing ? thank you
• 2039[17:30:57] *** Quits: bhoman (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2040[17:31:13] <jhutchins> nvz: I haven't messed with it, but I believe when you set up an ssb build, you have to specify that you want the sid source in some way similar to how you specify backport installs.
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• 2043[17:31:34] <jhutchins> nvz: I think it pins sid at a lower priority so you don't end up upgrading other packages.
• 2044[17:31:44] <nvz> jhutchins: I do it often enough and this has never happened before
• 2045[17:32:02] <greycat> jhutchins: you DON'T add a sid deb line. You add a sid deb-src line.
• 2046[17:32:10] <nvz> jhutchins: have a look at the ssb factoid, its quite simple
• 2047[17:32:16] <nvz> and usually vewry straighforward
• 2048[17:33:01] <nvz> afaik apt -b source foo is suppose to check any cache marked sources for a sourch package matching that package and download the source and build it
• 2049[17:33:24] <nvz> being that I have only one deb-src line, deb.debian.org for sid.. I figured as usual it should gget it from there
• 2050[17:33:36] <nvz> but its saying it can't find it and citing the buster version number
• 2051[17:33:55] <nvz> makes me think apt behavior changed.. cause it has never done that to me before
• 2052[17:34:07] <nvz> either that or that there was no audacity source in the sid repo. which I highly doubt
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• 2058[17:38:01] <nvz> apt-cache policy: replaced-url
• 2059[17:38:25] <nvz> I do have some unofficial repos, but they are narrowly scoped
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• 2074[17:47:55] <Bdm> Wine work on ubuntu
• 2075[17:48:00] <Bdm> ?
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• 2077[17:48:06] <jhutchins> Yeah, let me refresh my memory.
• 2078[17:48:19] <greycat> !ubuntu
• 2079[17:48:20] <dpkg> Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on chat.freenode.net instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
• 2080[17:48:45] <Bdm> Version
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• 2083[17:49:38] <jhutchins> Ok, so you add deb-src and it won't mess with packages.
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• 2085[17:50:40] <nvz> jhutchins: yes, it pulls the dependencies on apt build-dep from your normal stable sources and then the apt -b source builds the sid source against those
• 2086[17:50:48] <jhutchins> nvz: I'm guessing something got sideways in the upgrades, it should get 2.3.3-1
• 2087[17:51:13] <jhutchins> nvz: Can you download it via the web page and use that?
• 2088[17:51:18] <nvz> yes, being that I only have one sources line, and its pointing to sid, official mirror, it should be seeing the sid version
• 2089[17:51:42] <nvz> I suppose you /could/ but the apt -b source foo normally does all that, it gets the source, builds, cleans up, all on its own
• 2090[17:51:50] <jhutchins> nvz: "should" and "sid" may not always be compatible.
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• 2092[17:52:01] <nvz> heh
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• 2094[17:52:17] <nvz> yeah well I've done a fair amount of ssb in my day and its always worked.. e
• 2095[17:52:21] <jhutchins> nvz: I'd say poke around on the web page and maybe wait a day or two.
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• 2097[17:52:29] <nvz> yeah I
• 2098[17:52:56] <nvz> yeah I'd like to get these files converted, but I dont wanna sit here doing each one.. there are 11 books maybe 24 hour+ clips each..
• 2099[17:53:05] <sponix2ipfw> !ssb
• 2100[17:53:05] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
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• 2102[17:53:15] <sponix2ipfw> What does the SSB stand for ?
• 2103[17:53:19] <nvz> I am realizing the key to audiobooks is having the speed/pitch and such at a comfortable level
• 2104[17:53:23] <nvz> sponix2ipfw: simple sid backport
• 2105[17:53:36] <sponix2ipfw> oh
• 2106[17:54:04] <nvz> in this case, audacity is fairly straighforward.. not overly large, and only unsatisfyable dependency is debhelper-compat. so I'd have to get a newer debhelper first..
• 2107[17:54:14] <nvz> this should've been a rather routine ssb :P
• 2108[17:54:16] <greycat> !literal ssb
• 2109[17:54:16] <dpkg> "ssb" is "<reply> see simple sid backport"
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• 2134[18:05:17] <sponix2ipfw> nvz: This about the version you are looking for ? audacity 2.3.3-0.1~mx19+1
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• 2137[18:06:10] <nvz> I'm not looking for anything specific.. I have no idea when the features were implemented.. I just know latest upstream and sid version seem to be the same so it'd have to match the documentation upstream I'd assume
• 2138[18:06:30] <nvz> the upstream docs talk of a tools menu and a macros setting
• 2139[18:06:35] <nvz> this doesn't exist in buster
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• 2153[18:14:06] <nvz> i'll either figure it out or use the buster-multimedia thing or just find another way with sox or something.. I just already found settings using audacity effects that created a result I was happy with
• 2154[18:14:20] <nvz> I just thought maybe someone heard of this issue and knew something I didnt
• 2155[18:14:41] <nvz> about why the ssb method was still looking for the stable source that is even when there was no stable deb-src lines
• 2156[18:15:18] <nvz> technically I could go at it a totally different direction and modify the audio in realtime when listening to it even..
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• 2159[18:16:40] <nvz> the overall changes I made sped up the speed of the talking to a comfortable pace, took some of the deep timbre out of his voice and then I added in a reverb soft enough to replace the timbre with something more pleasant sounding that made it sound as though the tale was being told in a small cave or something :P
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• 2163[18:17:45] <nvz> perhaps I'd like audiobooks more if they did more production.. heh..
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• 2166[18:18:19] <nvz> I never seen one that read lines by different people creating more of a play out of it
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• 2169[18:19:09] <nvz> this guy at least attempts to do different voices, which is nice, but his voice was too deep to carry well especially on small speakers, and he talked too slowly
• 2170[18:19:26] <sponix2ipfw> nvz: Well, replaced-url
• 2171[18:19:41] <nvz> even with my modifications it'd probably take a week to read a book I could read in a night :P
• 2172[18:19:52] <nvz> yeah that I'm definately NOT going to do :P
• 2173[18:19:59] <nvz> I'd sooner just use a VM with sid
• 2174[18:20:00] <sponix2ipfw> Not 100% sure if it would blow up your install just adding the repo though lol
• 2175[18:20:30] <nvz> you gotta keep in mind I'm a bit of a purist with debian and been using and supporting it here nearly 2 decades
• 2176[18:20:43] <nvz> I'm neither incapable of finding a solution nor interested in wreckless ones :P
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• 2178[18:21:26] <nvz> I /would/ like to have done this already last night while I slept, but.. its no real rush.. I'll take a more careful approach and rethink the issue from the beginning
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• 2186[18:23:40] <nvz> normally I wouldnt consider newer stuff but I rarely use audacity, and the macros seem like they'd be incredibly useful
• 2187[18:24:03] <nvz> if I can get those new features relatively safely, I'll probably go that route
• 2188[18:24:08] <jelly> sponix2ipfw: mixing repos for different distros would absolutely blow up an installation, avoid suggesting that to other people
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• 2190[18:24:24] <nvz> then I can just play the files on anything without worrying if it can do the realtime modification of playback
• 2191[18:24:44] <sponix2ipfw> I haven't even used audacity _yet_ .. Just opened it up the other day and was pretty overwhelmed at all the bells and whistles
• 2192[18:24:59] <nvz> I can more easily control peaking issues and tuning for small speakers if I just pre-process the audio
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• 2194[18:25:07] <jelly> it can appear to work, but break horribly later
• 2195[18:25:17] <dadinn> hi all
• 2196[18:25:18] <sponix2ipfw> jelly: got it, thanks
• 2197[18:25:27] <jelly> ,v audacity
• 2198[18:25:28] <judd> Package: audacity on amd64 -- jessie: 2.0.6-2; stretch: 2.1.2-2; buster: 2.2.2-1+b1; bullseye: 2.3.3-1; sid: 2.3.3-1; stretch-multimedia: 1:2.1.3-dmo1+deb9u1; buster-multimedia: 1:2.3.2-dmo2; bullseye-multimedia: 1:2.3.3-dmo1; sid-multimedia: 1:2.3.3-dmo1
• 2199[18:25:46] <jelly> ,checkbackport audacity
• 2200[18:25:47] <judd> Backporting package audacity in sid→buster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 12).
• 2201[18:26:07] <nvz> jelly: yeah did that last night.. figured I'd just need to get a newer debhelper and it'd be smooth :P
• 2202[18:26:08] <jelly> that one's not correct, the dep is satisfied
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• 2204[18:26:21] <nvz> ,v debhelper
• 2205[18:26:22] <judd> Package: debhelper on amd64 -- jessie: 9.20150101+deb8u2; jessie-security: 9.20150101+deb8u2; stretch: 10.2.5; stretch-backports: 12.1.1~bpo9+1; buster: 12.1.1; buster-backports: 12.7.3~bpo10+1; bullseye: 12.7.3; sid: 12.8
• 2206[18:26:23] <dadinn> back to my question yesterday, it seems that grub is not being able to handle LUKS2 format in Debian 10 Buster... but this article says the code is there: replaced-url
• 2207[18:26:32] <jelly> nvz: the one in buster is already fine
• 2208[18:26:41] <nvz> jelly: yeah judd has been needing some updating for some time :P
• 2209[18:26:52] <dob1> in .bashrc I created a function where I setup a env variable, this variable is just releated to the function right?
• 2210[18:26:58] <jelly> it's just ingronant about versioned provides
• 2211[18:27:06] <dadinn> so is there a chance this is somehow available in buster via backports or something?
• 2212[18:27:07] <dob1> it exists only when the function is running, am I right?
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• 2214[18:27:40] <jelly> dadinn: which grub2 version is required?
• 2215[18:28:00] <ratrace> grub merged that ability just few days ago
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• 2217[18:28:42] <jelly> dadinn would have to build from a git snapshot, then
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• 2219[18:28:59] <ratrace> replaced-url
• 2220[18:29:01] <jelly> dadinn: maybe once it's in unstable and testing.
• 2221[18:29:16] <greycat> dob1: an *environment* variable (export) is global to the entire process, and all of its children.
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• 2223[18:29:50] <greycat> dob1: I am actually not sure what happens if you mark a variable as both exported and local, because that is batshit insane
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• 2229[18:30:24] <joepublic> I dunno, I think it's merely quirky compared to some of the ideas I have seen/had
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• 2238[18:32:35] <dadinn> jelly: I am not sure which version... 2.04 is 7 months old in git, while the commit for LUKS2 support is 10 days old... so I suppose newer than 2.04
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• 2240[18:33:07] <dadinn> currently Sid only has 2.04-5
• 2241[18:33:25] <dadinn> which i have no understanding which commit it means
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• 2243[18:34:13] <ratrace> dadinn: it's not even released yet, the feature is literally days old
• 2244[18:34:16] <jelly> dadinn: depending of how grub people manage their release schedule, it may appear in the next release. If that's called 2.05, then you'd have to wait until 1) grub release that new version 2) debian adopt it and built packages 3) packages flow into testing 4) you can THEN ask the backports list for a backport
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• 2248[18:35:24] <jelly> dadinn: phoronix made a news article about an ongoing development feature having been just included in the development source tree
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• 2250[18:36:40] <jelly> or you can build your own grub binaries from the current git and see if they work
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• 2265[18:43:40] <ratrace> if this were gentoo, you could copy that patch above to /etc/... and re-merge grub :)
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• 2267[18:44:44] <jelly> you can probably grab a random grub-hash.tar.gz and uupdate from that
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• 2272[18:46:40] <jelly> "uupdate -- in #debian*, not a typo"
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• 2313[19:09:58] <dob1> greycat, it's more simple my question, look at this test function I was thinking that TEST was set only during the function execution but I found that if I do echo $TEST after calling the function is stil lset
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• 2318[19:10:19] <dob1> so I need unset TEST at the end I think
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• 2321[19:10:26] <dob1> replaced-url
• 2322[19:10:30] <greycat> (a) is the function called in a subshell? either $(func) or foo|func would be a common way to do that.
• 2323[19:10:48] <greycat> (b) is the variable marked local, either by the command "local" or "declare" or "typeset" inside the function?
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• 2328[19:11:46] <dob1> greycat, a) I am not sure, b) no
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• 2330[19:11:54] <greycat> that ... is a LOT of crappy html wrapped around the function. And I can't see the call.
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• 2332[19:12:08] <greycat> Maybe I'm missing it in all of the horrible horrible html I had to scroll through.
• 2333[19:12:40] <dob1> it's very simple its test() { TEST=something; echo $TEST }
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• 2335[19:12:46] <greycat> that's the FUNCTION
• 2336[19:12:47] <greycat> where is the CALL
• 2337[19:12:54] <dob1> I call it in the shell
• 2338[19:13:09] <greycat> Also, naming your function "test" is really bad. There's a shell command with that name.
• 2339[19:13:15] <dob1> it's just a test
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• 2341[19:13:39] <greycat> Third try: tell us how you call this function.
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• 2343[19:14:03] <terrell> morning (for me)
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• 2345[19:14:36] <dob1> greycat, ok what I want is, set variable with the PATH where I am invoking the function so SOME_VAR=$PWD for this, call a program that will read this var, unset the var
• 2346[19:14:48] <greycat> Did I stutter?
• 2347[19:15:24] <greycat> Never mind, clearly the question has turned around, driven back past its starting point, and made a left turn at Albuquerque.
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• 2349[19:15:44] <greycat> What are you trying to do? What does "the PATH where I am invoking the function" mean?
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• 2355[19:17:10] <dob1> greycat, maybe the problem is I am using a function in the wrong way, but I just give the function a name and in the shell I use name and it runs the function, I am using it like a script. maybe it's better a script?
• 2356[19:17:33] <dob1> there are 2 commands so I read I can use a function for this too
• 2357[19:17:49] <greycat> I stopped asking how you call the function because CLEARLY you won't tell me.
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• 2359[19:18:16] <dob1> greycat, I don't understand what you mean, sorry. I simply write in the scell the function name
• 2360[19:18:22] <dob1> *shell
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• 2362[19:18:34] <greycat> The function named "test". So you type the word "test" and press Enter?
• 2363[19:18:39] <dob1> yes
• 2364[19:18:58] <greycat> The good news is, function names override builtin command names, so your "test" invokes the function, rather than the shell's builtin command by that name.
• 2365[19:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1557
• 2366[19:19:25] <greycat> The bad news is, you've overridden a VERY common and important builtin command, so the next time you try to run the builtin (perhaps in a function you weren't even aware was a function), it's going to break.
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• 2369[19:19:50] <dob1> test is just because I am testing
• 2370[19:20:00] <dob1> I will change it once I found what I need
• 2371[19:20:02] <greycat> Now, earlier you talked about environment variables declared inside a function, but in the pasted thing you showed us, you never exported anything. There is no environment variable being created. Just a regular shell variable.
• 2372[19:20:24] <dob1> I used the wrong term then
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• 2375[19:21:27] <dob1> so at the end of the function I have to unset the shell variable otherwise it remains set
• 2376[19:21:37] <greycat> Or, you could use a local variable.
• 2377[19:21:45] <greycat> OR, you could tell us what in the hell you are trying to do.
• 2378[19:21:51] <greycat> Using words that other people can understand.
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• 2381[19:25:28] <greycat> wooledg:~$ unset var1; foo() { local var1=haha; }; foo; echo "var1=<$var1>"
• 2382[19:25:28] <greycat> var1=<>
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• 2384[19:25:49] <greycat> But I still think that's a tangent.
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• 2386[19:26:11] <dob1> greycat, this is like my function now replaced-url
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• 2391[19:27:35] <greycat> mtf() { (cd my_dir && I_WAS_IN=$OLDPWD java -jar my_program.jar "$@"); }
• 2392[19:28:15] <dob1> ah
• 2393[19:28:18] <greycat> since you never said what the NAME of the environment variable should be, that your java program is expecting to se, I made one up
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• 2395[19:28:43] <dob1> well I don't need it
• 2396[19:28:53] <dob1> I can read $OLDPWD directly in my program I think
• 2397[19:28:58] <joepublic> lol
• 2398[19:28:59] <greycat> ...
• 2399[19:29:00] *** Quits: oish_ (~charlie@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 2400[19:29:02] <dob1> no?
• 2401[19:29:12] *** Quits: soee (~soee@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 2402[19:29:15] <greycat> because you believe that your Java program has magical access to the parent program's internal shell variables
• 2403[19:29:29] <dob1> ah
• 2404[19:29:32] <dob1> ok right :)
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• 2406[19:30:00] <yepla> hello guys
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• 2408[19:30:12] <dob1> thanks I try it
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• 2410[19:30:21] <yulim> hey guys
• 2411[19:30:44] <yepla> someone can tell me how can i know what on my debian open my tcp port 61209 ?
• 2412[19:30:49] <joepublic> greetings people who greet guys
• 2413[19:30:53] <greycat> fuser -i :61209
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• 2415[19:31:02] <yulim> Is it possible in debian to install ALSA 1.1.2 instead of 1.1.8?
• 2416[19:31:03] <greycat> or many other commands, like ss or netstat
• 2417[19:31:12] <greycat> err, I didn't mean fuser. I meant lsof. lsof -i :61209
• 2418[19:31:21] <greycat> fuser is one of those *other* programs, except I can'
• 2419[19:31:29] <greycat> t remember whether Debian's fuser can do sockets
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• 2425[19:32:35] <Lirion> greetings greeting people, and joegreetingbackthepublic
• 2426[19:32:36] <yepla> greycat: it s return nothing
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• 2428[19:32:56] <greycat> you'll need to be root, almost certainly, or at least match the UID of whatever process is using the port
• 2429[19:33:31] <greycat> other commands like ss/netstat can show you that *something* is using the port, but to get the process ID, you'll have to be root
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• 2431[19:34:38] <dob1> greycat, ok but why the shell variable you are setting in this way is automatically unset at the end of the function? because with (..) I am using a new shell (sorry for wrong terms but I think you got the idea of what I mean)
• 2432[19:35:03] <greycat> dob1: (1) I am not setting a *shell* variable. I am exporting an environment variable into the environment of java. That's what FOO=bar java does.
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• 2434[19:35:20] <greycat> (2) you're ALREADY using a subshell (...) so anything you do inside that subshell is gone, just like your cd is gone.
• 2435[19:35:49] <yepla> glances 642 root 4u IPv4 21785 0t0 TCP *:61209 (LISTEN)
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• 2438[19:36:14] <greycat> yepla: all right, now use "ps -fp 642" if you need more detail about this process
• 2439[19:36:46] *** Quits: yulim (~logan@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 2440[19:36:48] <dob1> greycat, ah it's not a type, so really is ... I_WAS_IN=$OLDPWD java ... and not I_WAS_IN=$OLDPWD && java
• 2441[19:36:51] <terrell> morning for me. Is there some way I can find out EXACTLY how many sectors there are in the following discs: 1TG unformatted HDD and 32GB SD drive. I am initializing the HDD and want to match exactly the sectors so I can easily copy back and forth
• 2442[19:36:52] <dob1> *typo
• 2443[19:36:56] <terrell> I will be using dd
• 2444[19:37:02] <yepla> UID PID PPID C STIME TTY TIME CMD
• 2445[19:37:02] <yepla> root 642 1 0 janv.06 ? 00:11:06 /usr/bin/python3 /usr/bin/glances -s
• 2446[19:37:12] <greycat> dob1: just like when you do CFLAGS=-O2 ./configure
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• 2450[19:39:31] <lazlo> ehlo
• 2451[19:39:35] <yepla> greycat: how can i stop it ?
• 2452[19:39:41] <yepla> kill -9 642 ?
• 2453[19:40:05] <greycat> Don't use -9. Just kill should be sufficient. The better question is, what is "glances"? Why is it running at all, if you don't know what it is?
• 2454[19:40:18] <greycat> ,file usr/bin/glances
• 2455[19:40:24] <judd> Search for usr/bin/glances in buster/amd64: glances: usr/bin/glances
• 2456[19:40:32] <greycat> Looks like a legitimate package...
• 2457[19:40:34] <greycat> ,info glances
• 2458[19:40:36] <judd> Package glances (utils, optional) in buster/amd64: Curses-based monitoring tool. Version: 3.1.0-1; Size: 829.3k; Installed: 6178k; Homepage: replaced-url
• 2459[19:40:55] *** Quits: sailor177354 (~sailor177@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 2460[19:41:09] <yepla> i remember have use this cmd line
• 2461[19:41:10] *** Joins: zamasu (~zamasu@replaced-ip)
• 2462[19:41:11] <greycat> You might want to consider removing the package, if you aren't using it.
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• 2465[19:41:23] <yepla> but wasn t thinking it s open a port
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• 2469[19:43:46] <yepla> ok i have remove it thanks greycat
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• 2476[19:46:21] <lazlo> it there anyway to install debian amd64 with debootstrap to USB with arm64 device running ?
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• 2479[19:47:40] <terrell> lazlo, I think so.
• 2480[19:47:53] <terrell> what format is the source in
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• 2501[20:04:14] <spacebug^> Hum. How come I did not have to enter the password for my second (new) LUKS encrypted disk. It was mapped automatically after I entered the password for my root disk. Does it automatically try the same password?
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• 2545[20:36:01] <Guest10220> greetings. I have a router dhcp reservation for this machine, but after reboot it gets another address (changing, ignoring the reservation). if I run `dhclient` manually, I get the right address _added_ to the same interface. any idea why the first address is different? isn't it also using dhclient?
• 2546[20:36:32] <terrell> is it possible to match sector for sector a partition on a 1TB hard drive with a 32 GB Sd card?
• 2547[20:36:40] *** Guest10220 is now known as tga0
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• 2551[20:37:18] <GNU\colossus> what do you mean, "match"?
• 2552[20:37:27] <GNU\colossus> compare the first 32GB of the two block devices?
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• 2554[20:37:34] <GNU\colossus> that is possible; `cmp` can do it
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• 2557[20:38:08] <tga0> interesting, it seems to be a netplan issue
• 2558[20:38:42] <GNU\colossus> tga0, that sounds like you should be heading to #ubuntu maybe?
• 2559[20:39:13] <terrell> I am doing the disk partitioing now and I want to be able to use dd to copy partitions back and forth
• 2560[20:39:33] <tga0> GNU\colossus: I'm on debian, not ubuntu, but the issue is identical
• 2561[20:39:42] <tga0> debian doesn't use netplan?
• 2562[20:39:51] <greycat> *plonk*
• 2563[20:40:01] <GNU\colossus> terrell, with MBR partitions, that's easily possible. just stay inside the first 32GB of the disk with all partition bounaries; done.
• 2564[20:40:14] <GNU\colossus> tga0, no, it doesn't.
• 2565[20:40:29] <tga0> curious issue then
• 2566[20:40:30] <tga0> replaced-url
• 2567[20:40:38] <tga0> this is exactly what I am experiencing (not my question)
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• 2570[20:42:07] <tga0> by default is dhcp done with dhclient or something else?
• 2571[20:42:43] <GNU\colossus> I think so
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• 2574[20:43:16] <tga0> well, running dhclient again adds the right address to the interface, so something must be different in the way the system gets the address on boot
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• 2576[20:44:04] <terrell> Debian linux 4.9.0 is booting on machine 2
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• 2578[20:44:20] <tga0> running dhclient the second time says some file already exists btw, so if the system woudl be using dhclient normally, I shouldn't be able to run it again manually
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• 2581[20:44:33] <greycat> A stretch kernel, perhaps.
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• 2583[20:44:37] <terrell> Now I have other than this stupid windows POS (point of sale) system.
• 2584[20:44:41] *** Joins: kreyren (~kreyren@replaced-ip)
• 2585[20:45:06] <terrell> enter password. I don't remember the pasword. I don't think I used a password
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• 2590[20:45:56] <terrell> PHD
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• 2597[20:50:11] <nlpqda> Is it normal for Debian buster to come without ~/.Xresources ? this is my first time dealing with this file and I'm not sure whether I'm supposed to create it or exists by default!
• 2598[20:50:28] <greycat> wooledg:~$ ls -a /etc/skel
• 2599[20:50:28] <greycat> . .. .bash_logout .bashrc .kshrc .profile
• 2600[20:50:34] <greycat> Yup, no .X* files in there.
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• 2603[20:52:03] <greycat> Feel free to create one if you'd like to have one.
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• 2609[20:54:11] <nlpqda> thanks
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• 2623[21:00:23] <tga0> this is even more interesting, the interface has address .210 (wrong) and doing a `dhclient -r` does a release for address .215 (right, but not assigned atm)
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• 2638[21:10:22] <karlpinc> Anyone have any ideas for help getting chromium working on an X client/serer setup? The details are in Bug#949432.
• 2639[21:10:39] <karlpinc> replaced-url
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• 2642[21:10:59] <karlpinc> The last security update to chromium broke it.
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• 2644[21:11:39] <tga0> it looks like debian 9 was using the mac address as dhcp id, debian 10 uses something longer
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• 2647[21:12:57] <annadane> chromium in debian: a tragedy in $acts
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• 2654[21:14:34] <tga0> wasn't font rendering also broken and ugly for chromium?
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• 2666[21:21:36] <terrell> How would I boot into single user mode? I need to reset my password
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• 2668[21:22:07] <nkuttler> !i forgot root's password
• 2669[21:22:08] <greycat> Your user password, or your root password? If root, it's a catch-22. You need the root password to enter single-user mode.
• 2670[21:22:08] <dpkg> For GRUB: 1) press 'e' to edit the kernel setting in the grub command line (add 'init=/bin/sh' to the end of it) 2) 'fsck' your root file system, 3) 'mount -o remount,rw /', 4) 'passwd root' 5) 'mount -o remount,ro /' 6) 'reboot -d -f' (exec /sbin/init should work); For LILO: 1) 'Linux init=/bin/sh' at the LILO boot prompt (hold Shift while booting), steps 2-6 are the same; For yaboot: 1) 'Linux init=/bin/sh' at yaboot prompt.
• 2671[21:23:08] * tga0 is still digging around the dhclient issue -- on one hand it was changed in debian 10, on the other running dhclient again does work, so it's about the default settings used by network manager
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• 2673[21:25:34] <greycat> And if it's the user password, you don't need to enter single-user mode. Simply get to a text console (Ctrl-Alt-F2 usually works) and login directly as root.
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• 2683[21:29:55] <terrell> dpkg, hey - thanks. I already have initrd /boot/initrd.img-4.9.0-8-686-pae and to me that looks like the boot image.... and I likely need it. and if I want a differnet version I can likely change it - right? so... init= a shell? I can try that
• 2684[21:29:55] <dpkg> You are person #1 to send an unparseable request, terrell
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• 2687[21:31:13] <terrell> greycat, both. I have never used this image before. I'm doing bootstrap at this time and I do not recall setting any passwords... its my install media.
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• 2692[21:32:11] <terrell> I love dpkg - I am not first. I like to be first. and I am reallyu frustrated
• 2693[21:32:30] <greycat> if it helps, you're confusing to us humans as well as to the bot
• 2694[21:32:35] <terrell> dpkg, says I am first
• 2695[21:32:35] <dpkg> i don't know, terrell
• 2696[21:32:55] <tga0> the wiki is great, stuff like "The default for Debian seems to be dhcp-client"
• 2697[21:33:08] <terrell> damn - I thought dpkg knew everything
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• 2699[21:33:19] <terrell> LOL
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• 2701[21:33:22] <tga0> seems to be? is this documentation or science
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• 2704[21:34:06] <karlpinc> tga0: Dunno. Don't much care. I get font related messages with X client/server but it has always worked. Until now.
• 2705[21:34:51] <karlpinc> tga0: It's neither. It's a wiki.
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• 2708[21:36:15] <karlpinc> tga0: I find networkmanager confusing and avoid it.
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• 2710[21:37:32] <terrell> login failed.
• 2711[21:37:43] <tga0> I'm still throughly confused why the system gets one address, then running dhclient gets another address on the same interface
• 2712[21:38:14] <tga0> my current guess has to do with client ids, but I can't find enough log data to confirm it
• 2713[21:38:15] <karlpinc> tga0: How does the first "get" get?
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• 2715[21:38:59] <terrell> damn it. it wants my password. But I like I am in command mode.
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• 2717[21:39:12] <karlpinc> tga0: dhcp is going to be served based on mac address, so if you're making 2 different requests with 2 mac addresses you're going to get two IP addresses.
• 2718[21:39:34] <tga0> fresh system, `iface x inet dhcp`, and it comes up with a dynamic address, other than the one I have reserved by mac
• 2719[21:39:44] <tga0> if I run dhclient manually, it gets the proper address by mac, and _adds_ it to the interface
• 2720[21:39:47] <karlpinc> tga0: On the other hand, if you're getting one address from dhcp and another from something else, well... you can get different answers.
• 2721[21:40:03] <tga0> they're both coming from the same dhcp server
• 2722[21:40:30] <karlpinc> tga0: (For all I know systemd has incorporated dhcp into the borg and has its own dhcp client.)
• 2723[21:40:43] <tga0> ah hmm
• 2724[21:40:48] <karlpinc> tga0: Run a tcpdump and see what's being asked for.
• 2725[21:40:56] <tga0> but then why do I find a dhclient running
• 2726[21:41:25] <terrell> PHd again. My boot media is not formatted in anything stupid windows can use.
• 2727[21:42:28] <karlpinc> terrell: You added 'init=/bin/sh' to the end of the kernel command line in grub and it still asked for a password?
• 2728[21:43:14] <greycat> terrell: are you trying to boot your Debian system from external media? You shouldn't have to do that. Just select your image from the GRUB menu, and edit it by pressing 'e' and doing what dpkg said before.
• 2729[21:43:22] <karlpinc> tga0: I'm guessing. See what is asked of the dhcp server. Look at its logs, or dump the traffic on the wire, or....
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• 2731[21:43:33] <tga0> karlpinc: I guess dhcp gets addresses by _dhcp id_, not necessarily mac?
• 2732[21:43:51] <greycat> I.e. turn on the Debian computer, and when the GRUB menu appears, just press 'e'.
• 2733[21:44:04] <karlpinc> tga0: Sounds plausible. I've not paid attention in a while and would have to read up.
• 2734[21:44:05] <greycat> Unless you need to select an image first by pressing up/down arrows.
• 2735[21:44:25] <terrell> karlpinc, yup. It went to the GUI shell asking for a log in. cntr-alt-F2 took me to the command line - and it wants me to log in. I tried user "root" maybe that is not correct. I do not have a linux system running other than this boot (USB boot) 32 GB thumb drive... slower than a sick turtle.
• 2736[21:44:57] <greycat> you didn't do the init=/bin/sh steps, then
• 2737[21:45:15] <karlpinc> terrell: Ctrl-alt-f2 gets you to a virtual terminal. Not the kernel command line set by the boot loader.
• 2738[21:45:23] <terrell> I did press e and I am able to edit the on screen menu. BUT - I was in grub command mode before
• 2739[21:45:35] <terrell> I don't yet know what commands are available.
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• 2741[21:46:03] <terrell> karlpinc, virtual terminal is just fine. I am asked to log in.
• 2742[21:46:10] <greycat> All you have to do is add ' init=/bin/sh' to the end of your boot command and press whatever the magic key is to boot from there. I think it's like Ctrl-X or something. It should say on the monitor.
• 2743[21:46:32] <karlpinc> terrell: You choose the kernel (& command line) you want to boot. Then you read the bottom of the grub screen to see what commands are avilable. ('e' should allow you to edit.)
• 2744[21:46:41] <terrell> well let me try cntr-x. I think I pressed something else.
• 2745[21:47:00] <karlpinc> terrell: Virtual terminal is not fine when your goal is to login without a password.
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• 2747[21:47:28] <karlpinc> terrell: You need to look at the screen at each step of the way to see what you can type to make it do what you want.
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• 2755[21:50:01] <tga0> karlpinc: fyi, in 10 dhclient sends a long dhcp client identifier, <something something network segment>+mac
• 2756[21:50:23] <tga0> karlpinc: the solution was send dhcp-client-identifier = hardware;
• 2757[21:50:25] <tga0> in dhclient.conf
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• 2759[21:51:12] <tga0> apparently whatever long id dhclient now sends, even though rfc correct, doesn't match mac reservations for dhcp pretty much everywhere
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• 2761[21:53:08] <terrell> I am in the boot sequence. 4 options and 2 are for stupid windows. I can write a book on that issue. Windows is for dummies. I have normal boot and advanced options for Debian GNU/Linux. I'll choose this one.
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• 2764[21:53:33] <terrell> I can go into recovery mode. what does that do?
• 2765[21:53:48] <greycat> That is single-user mode.
• 2766[21:54:08] <greycat> You'll be prompted for the root password.
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• 2770[21:55:05] <terrell> It wants the root password. I do not remember setting one.
• 2771[21:55:18] <terrell> ok perfect.
• 2772[21:55:19] <greycat> This is why you do THE OTHER THING to get around this.
• 2773[21:55:26] <terrell> that is likely what I want
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• 2775[21:55:46] <terrell> cntrl-D should take me to a normal boot
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• 2778[21:56:49] <terrell> PHd. Sorry guys. I would have written all this down when I did it. Now where is the damn notebook?
• 2779[21:57:03] <terrell> I made iced tea the other day and used slat instead of sugar
• 2780[21:57:08] <terrell> salt
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• 2790[22:00:09] <Allos> Hi, what is the different between the standard and gnome ISOs; what is the default DE?
• 2791[22:00:24] <Allos> difference*
• 2792[22:00:35] *** Quits: elkalamar_ (~elkalamar@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 2793[22:00:39] <greycat> The "default DE" is whatever the image chooses it to be. If your image says "gnome" somewhere in its name, then it probably sets GNOME to be the default.
• 2794[22:00:59] <greycat> You are not required to choose the default DE, or *any* DE, when you install. No matter what image you se.
• 2795[22:01:00] <Allos> What is `debian-live-10.2.0-amd64-standard.iso`?
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• 2798[22:01:15] <greycat> A live image. Without a desktop environment, I would imagine.
• 2799[22:01:21] <Allos> Oh
• 2800[22:01:23] <Allos> ty
• 2801[22:01:25] <greycat> !firmware images
• 2802[22:01:25] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from replaced-url
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• 2804[22:01:38] <greycat> USUALLY you use "netinst" to install. Or the "netinst with non-free firmware" if it's a laptop.
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• 2806[22:02:03] <greycat> One USUALLY does not use a live image to install. One use a live image to boot and run an ephemeral instance of Linux that will not be permanently installed.
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• 2809[22:02:39] <greycat> Exceptions may be made for people with poor internet access.
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• 2811[22:03:17] <Allos> I know thanks. I just could not see anywhere on the page which explained what the `standard` iso was.
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• 2813[22:04:22] <greycat> When you select things at the end of the install, "Standard" refers to various packages like bzip2 and reportbug and traceroute, which augment the core system just a little bit, but don't include X, etc.
• 2814[22:05:08] <Allos> I mean, on the ISO downloads page.
• 2815[22:05:15] <Allos> replaced-url
• 2816[22:05:16] <greycat> ... and I mean what I say.
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• 2818[22:05:38] <greycat> If you're using a Live image, you're expected to know enough about Debian to know what "Standard" means in this context.
• 2819[22:05:45] <greycat> Nevertheless, I just explained it for you.
• 2820[22:05:52] <Allos> Okay
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• 2849[22:18:44] <FJDelgado> Hello!
• 2850[22:19:07] <joepublic> Enthusiastic salutations.
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• 2862[22:23:32] <terrell> if I had a linux system running I would mount this stupid USB and edit /etc/passdw
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• 2864[22:23:47] <greycat> I'm *so* freaking confused.
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• 2866[22:23:58] <greycat> Do you or do you not have a COMPUTER with DEBIAN INSTALLED ON IT?
• 2867[22:24:00] <joepublic> as i recall you have been spending your time polishing up windows
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• 2870[22:24:27] <terrell> like I told the judge last time I was in court. That makes 2 of us. The City's case was tossed
• 2871[22:24:55] <joepublic> The judge didn't know whether you had ever installed debian?
• 2872[22:25:09] <terrell> joepublic, no - backing the damn thing up so I can resize partitions and install linux.
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• 2874[22:25:18] <greycat> I gather his modus operandi is to perceive and interact with reality in such an idiosyncratic way that nobody else can understand a thing he's saying.
• 2875[22:25:27] <terrell> joepublic, city towed my car and didn't tell me
• 2876[22:25:42] <terrell> they put the ticket on the car and took it. I didn't know they took it.
• 2877[22:25:44] <joepublic> Well, to be fair, when you go and see no car there, you have a clue
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• 2879[22:26:02] <terrell> $1700 storage fee for a legally parked car. Judge tossed the case.
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• 2881[22:26:14] <joepublic> and had they told you, you probably would have argued and/or protested
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• 2883[22:26:25] <joepublic> good on the judge
• 2884[22:26:28] <terrell> joepublic, well if I needed the car I might have gone looking for it.
• 2885[22:26:44] <terrell> damn fine judge. Most of hte judges I have seen are damn fine.
• 2886[22:26:54] <joepublic> none of this answers the question, though.
• 2887[22:27:57] <terrell> nope. I know if I set a password I would have written it down - and I would have put this information in a sandwich bag along with the USB stick. and I know I had to take the USB stick out of the bag. THat was my first mistake.
• 2888[22:28:11] <greycat> joepublic: good luck.
• 2889[22:28:32] <greycat> I'm on to like my second or third guess here, and I'm not even bothering to type them.
• 2890[22:28:43] <terrell> I can look in this machine. Likely I created the USB stick on this machine. I can re-create it.
• 2891[22:28:44] <greycat> They didn't even respond to the first one.
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• 2893[22:29:33] <joepublic> There have been some communication "misses"
• 2894[22:29:41] <terrell> greycat, joepublic ya - good luck getting my $1700 back for a car they towed and had no authority to do it because the judge did not side with them.
• 2895[22:30:08] <joepublic> I am not seeking the return of the $1700 in question.
• 2896[22:30:29] <terrell> City is quite confused. So was the judge. Crown prosecutor was confused as well.
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• 2899[22:30:48] <joepublic> I can sympathize.
• 2900[22:30:50] <terrell> If I had the $1700 I could probably hire a sysadmin to do this. But I am one.
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• 2902[22:31:16] <terrell> I just can't remember my bleeding password.
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• 2906[22:32:44] <terrell> joepublic, oh get this. I happen to own a company. If my company pays me any money then the government reduces one of my pensions by an amount pretty close to that my company pays me. So I work for free. If someone stays with me I don't charge rent
• 2907[22:33:05] <greycat> so much off-topic typing, and they can't even answer a simple question about their issue
• 2908[22:33:38] <terrell> greycat, ya. I'll take this offtopic. I am just frustrated. THis is not suitable for #debian
• 2909[22:34:13] <joepublic> there's another "miss"
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• 2927[22:49:12] <terrell> I can look this up - but someone can save me a wee bit of time. When installing Debian from a windows PC there is an installer exe that is used. what is its name?
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• 2929[22:49:27] <greycat> !install guide
• 2930[22:49:27] <dpkg> The Installation Guide for Debian 10 "Buster" can be found at replaced-url
• 2931[22:49:47] *** Quits: LordBreetai (~LordBreet@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 2932[22:49:59] <greycat> The normal means of installing Debian onto a computer is to boot the installer, which is normally downloaded as a Hybrid ISO Image, and can be written to CD, DVD, or USB-stick.
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• 2934[22:50:33] <terrell> greycat, hey thanks bud. I'll buy you a couple beers when this is done! Tell me where you live. I'll have to go virtual and use remote controls but I know I can do it!
• 2935[22:50:58] <greycat> When someone asks a question in #debian about resetting their root password, and mentions a USB stick, a normal train of thought for helpers is that Debian is installed on the computer, and the USB stick holds their copy of the Debian installer.
• 2936[22:51:09] <greycat> Apparently that is not the case HERE.
• 2937[22:53:01] <ratrace> after all these years you're still surprised :)
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• 2939[22:53:53] <terrell> greycat, I wish. My last Linux PC died. I have to staret fresh and last I did this was 20 years ago. The last 3+ years have been pretty rough on me. 2 dead kids. wife died 1989. law suits to the clouds and 3 foreclosures and ALL COMPLETED and I don't even hire a lawyer to do it. I am reading the docs. I'll just re-do that USB stick.
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• 2948[22:58:15] <terrell> Oh - I think we need to update the install docs. A P4 1GHz is recomended. How about a PIII tualatin core at 1.3 GHz? Also with > than 12 mb?
• 2949[22:58:43] <greycat> Is that a typo? 128 MB of RAM, perhaps?
• 2950[23:00:29] <terrell> 1 GB - ya typo. sorry. I am trying to find the install exe I used to create this USB stick.
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• 2952[23:00:55] <ritmo> Hello everyone!
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• 2954[23:02:31] <ritmo> Found 2 new issues on my Debian 10.2 with my x220: usually ctrl+home/ctrl+end will be brightness up or down. But when i click ctrl+up(brightness up) it just shows me the actual brightness but doesnt change it
• 2955[23:02:41] <ritmo> anything i need to set up to get my brightness keys working?
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• 2961[23:09:25] <karlpinc> terrell: You might want to use the unoffical installer with non-free firmware included to save hassle.
• 2962[23:09:30] <karlpinc> !firmware images
• 2963[23:09:30] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from replaced-url
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• 2968[23:13:46] <terrell> I have to use an external DVD. It draws 2a. USB of course. No power jack. D-Link built the HUB. I called them. Nope! I am not allowed. USB 2.0 says 0.5a and not 2a. I am not allowed to use it.
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• 2982[23:29:47] <terrell> I can do it again... rebuild the USB install poop. but I read: To prepare the USB stick, you will need a system where GNU/Linux is already running
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• 2984[23:30:54] <ksk> !usb install
• 2985[23:30:54] <dpkg> You can install Debian from a USB stick/thumbdrive/pen drive/key on x86 systems, as long as your system's BIOS can boot from USB. Details are in the Installation Guide, see replaced-url
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• 2990[23:32:52] <terrell> THis is what I am reading. I'll just rebuild that USB stick. No big deal. Last time I did it was like maybe last year.
• 2991[23:33:06] <terrell> replaced-url
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• 3002[23:41:39] <ksk> you can also read what the bot says, and use win32diskimager on windows..
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• 3005[23:43:31] <terrell> ksk thanks.. I'll jusat start over. no big deal
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• 3021[23:51:54] <jhutchins> ritmo: The problem is that hotkeys like that are not standard. There are some driver packages available for common models like thinkpads, but chances are poor of getting anthing working.
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• 3027[23:54:04] <jhutchins> ritmo: Do you have a special "Fn" key?
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• 3030[23:55:15] <ritmo> yes i have an fn key
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• 3033[23:55:29] <ritmo> but i would love to use ctrl because it came as default in ubuntu and linuxmint
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