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• 1[00:00:37] <BCMM> typing in `startx` every day seems like a really awkward way to avoid declaring a few environment variables in a standard way, but ok
• 2[00:00:47] <greycat> you reboot every day?
• 3[00:01:34] <BCMM> well you see, i turn my computer off sometimes, because sometimes i am asleep instead of using it
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• 5[00:01:46] <BCMM> i have other machines for always-on tasks
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• 7[00:02:01] <BCMM> it's... not an unusual way of using a PC
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• 38[00:24:09] <ratrace> and there's the security concerns of start'ing'x from shell
• 39[00:25:05] <ratrace> there's no security boundary really, you can't properly do screen locking. crash xorg and the attacker is at your $SHELL
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• 43[00:30:27] <gnat_x> i gave up startx a couple versions ago because i couldn't make it play nicely with policykit
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• 53[00:44:19] <phogg> sounds like a good reason to get rid of policykit
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• 58[00:52:27] <gnat_x> fair. though i think i decided that it was easier to switch to a dm than switch my window manager.
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• 60[00:53:32] <gnat_x> and yes, if you use startx i would recommend `startx & exit` to close the shell when xorg crashes
• 61[00:53:47] <phogg> or exec startx
• 62[00:54:52] <gnat_x> ahh, yeah, just getting to the bottom of the thing i wrote about this (in 2012)
• 63[00:55:45] <gnat_x> and i talk about switching to `exec startx`
• 64[00:55:50] <ratrace> you can't get rid of polkit wihtout getting rid of the whole dbus concept too. or else you'd just have to reinvent polkit to fill in teh vacuum
• 65[00:56:04] <gnat_x> it's been a while
• 66[00:57:41] <phogg> ratrace: hey, now we're talking sense
• 67[00:58:31] <ratrace> so, like, it's back to 1990s?
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• 69[00:59:49] <phogg> You wouldn't have to go that far back.
• 70[01:00:29] <phogg> but seriously, dbus is not a source of joy. It's just sad that we haven't got a viable alternative.
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• 72[01:01:07] <ratrace> dbus the implementation or dbus the concept?
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• 80[01:07:51] <phogg> ratrace: the implementation
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• 82[01:08:21] <phogg> the concept of RPC of this sort is obviously fine, but the devil is in the gory details.
• 83[01:09:18] <freem> gnat_x: if one uses startx, I would recommend to use `exec startx` instead
• 84[01:09:39] <freem> does the same, exept there one less process living for nothing
• 85[01:09:58] <phogg> process murderer!
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• 88[01:10:29] <freem> no... i have a whole lot of runsv & svlogd :) but I select those which can live, I'm a process breeder
• 89[01:10:47] <phogg> it's all in how you look at it (-;
• 90[01:11:06] <ratrace> dbus-broker is supposed to replace it. only penguin gods know when and how good that will be
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• 96[01:15:38] <freem> dbus-borker?
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• 103[01:22:24] <ghormoon> hi, are there some know n issues with Intel Centrino-N 2230? i switched to backup laptop with my workstation (1:1) and i have issue that the wifi frequently reconnects (wlan0: disassociated from [MAC] (Reason: 2=PREV_AUTH_NOT_VALID)), but at that point, it also asks again to fill in the password (managed by networkmanager), first it wants root pw as my normal user doesn't have permission to change NM, then it needs me to confirm the NM password
• 104[01:22:24] <ghormoon> (pre-filled, just enter). i didn't manage to find out why it can't just reconnect without asking again, the network password is saved :/ I found some people disabling N mode on wifi (options iwlwifi 11n_disable=1, or options iwlwifi 11n_disable=8), but that didn't help me either
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• 115[01:37:26] <Akuw> hi, i am trying to do a boot usb stick with windows 10, but when boot there is a request for usb driver in some part of windows install
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• 117[01:37:43] <Akuw> i used dd
• 118[01:38:00] <Akuw> and etcher and same results
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• 120[01:39:08] <sney> Akuw: do you mean to ask in ##windows?
• 121[01:39:22] <Akuw> i think is not related to windows
• 122[01:39:31] <Akuw> i am debian user
• 123[01:39:44] <sney> "there is a request for usb driver in some part of windows install" #debian does not support installing windows.
• 124[01:40:03] <Akuw> but could be a problem when create usb stick?
• 125[01:40:09] <dax> Akuw: win10 ISOs aren't isohybrid, so dd etc. won't work. try woeusb. it's not supported here.
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• 127[01:40:24] <Akuw> woeusb?
• 128[01:40:29] <Akuw> is in any repository?
• 129[01:40:33] <dax> no.
• 130[01:40:49] <Akuw> ok
• 131[01:41:21] <dax> (i strongly recommend finding a Windows computer to make Windows installation media, but I gather that's the usual alternative if you can't)
• 132[01:41:31] <dax> anyways, offtopic here, so that's all i got
• 133[01:41:37] <Akuw> dax: thanks, let me check
• 134[01:41:55] <Akuw> because i followed this replaced-url
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• 137[01:42:55] * dax checks dpkg's opinion on snap, giggles
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• 140[01:47:56] <freem> dpkg's opinion?
• 141[01:48:06] <mutante> 'Like the crack of the whip, I Snap attack ... Front to back, in this thing called rap. .. I've got the power (Power, power) .. It's getting, it's getting, it's getting kinda hectic
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• 143[01:48:33] <mutante> Snap! sucks
• 144[01:48:57] <freem> snap: location of genes from DNA sequence with hidden markov model?
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• 210[02:59:04] <ratrace> jomido: you know... I'm actually considering giving OpenSuSE a try again .... wrt your earlier question of what's the alternative to centos going belly up. offtopic here, but here you are.
• 211[02:59:35] <jomido> I've heard that from a lot of centos folks, the argument being that it's "rpm based" if you squint
• 212[02:59:53] <jomido> I have to say, #rockylinux is very active and there are a ton of centos people in the channel
• 213[02:59:59] <jomido> sorry, I know, super offtopic
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• 215[03:04:02] <ratrace> yeah I'm there
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• 267[03:49:36] <tomg> I'm running Debian stable with the elogind packages and no systemd and I'm having a weird problem. The system is, by itself, constantly switching to VT 12 (where there's either nothing running, or rsyslog). If I switch back to another terminal it keeps switching back and the system is unusuable from console this way. Does anyone have any idea what I'm talking about :)
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• 273[03:57:10] <tomg> i'll try debugging it by running without lightdm
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• 309[04:20:18] <soft_concrete> Hi, Ubuntu seems to rely a lot on snaps, which I often find frustrating to deal with. I trust Debian does not, and using snaps is more (or completely) optional in this distro?
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• 311[04:21:58] <dax> dpkg: snaps
• 312[04:21:58] <dpkg> i don't know, dax
• 313[04:22:00] <dax> dpkg: snap
• 314[04:22:01] <dpkg> Snaps are cross-platform app packages. Considered third-party and not supported in #debian, but can be a low-impact way to install software not found in the debian archive, without creating a <frankendebian>. replaced-url
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• 316[04:22:19] <dax> soft_concrete: yeah, i've never had to use them in debian, and people here tend to not like them
• 317[04:22:22] <soft_concrete> Not supported. That is *exactly* what I want to see.
• 318[04:22:26] * soft_concrete downloads debian iso
• 319[04:22:29] <hunter0one> Snap is available but its not installed by default
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• 331[04:35:48] <Howie69> Long time no see
• 332[04:36:26] <Howie69> I'm looking for a document about creating and using Vlans under the newer kernels using the new interface names
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• 334[04:37:42] <Howie69> I've found and know a lot from the previous eth* network names, but I'm not sure what has changed in the newer kernels or if Debian (which I prefer) is different than the commands used in CentOS and other distros
• 335[04:38:38] <Howie69> Google hasn't been much help, as it keeps pointing to older versions of kernels andflavors
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• 337[04:39:21] <Howie69> Any help would be appreciated. Even keywords to search
• 338[04:39:22] <dvs> Howie69: The naming conventions of network interfaces have changed in newer kernels.
• 339[04:40:34] <Howie69> dvs, That I know. I am tring to find out if the vlan creation procedures changed with them, especially s‌ince I can't find the 802.1q module
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• 341[04:40:57] <Howie69> That's the point that has me confused
• 342[04:40:57] <dvs> I have no idea about vlans
• 343[04:41:15] <Howie69> Newer docs for Deb networking?
• 344[04:41:59] <dvs> Oh the systemd way of configuring network? I don't bother with it.
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• 346[04:43:02] <Howie69> Yeah, I know the old way, but am trying to keep up with the new ways and interface naming
• 347[04:43:18] <Howie69> and for that matter, the kernel modules and stuff
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• 349[04:44:43] <dvs> The interface naming seems to depend on the kernel module for the interface driver.
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• 356[04:48:56] <Howie69> dvs: Right
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• 358[04:49:20] <Howie69> I have the name, but can't find the right module for this
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• 360[04:49:39] <Howie69> Debian has a "vlan" package that I can't find any docs for
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• 362[04:53:53] <Howie69> and reading the docs on it, not what I'm looking for
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• 510[08:01:34] <jadax> hi
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• 512[08:01:46] <jadax> how do I get isohybrid on debian 10?
• 513[08:01:54] <jadax> I installed syslinux package but it diddn't come with isohybrid
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• 516[08:06:18] <derpadmin> do you think the move pulled by IBM about CentOS will change the debian use of systemd? (on the long run)
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• 521[08:08:58] <themill> ,file bin/isohybrid
• 522[08:09:02] <judd> Search for bin/isohybrid in buster/amd64: syslinux-utils: usr/bin/isohybrid
• 523[08:09:05] <themill> jadax: ^^
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• 525[08:09:28] <jadax> alright, got it!
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• 697[10:41:07] <gryffus> What distributions / software are you using on your rescue flash disks Mine has currently Kali, SUSE LiveCD, Chntpw, Gparted LiveCD, VMWare ESX Rescue... Anything else that comes to your mind? Thanks :)
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• 701[10:45:14] <ksk> gryffus: I only need grml for my rescue operations, but I am not a medic :)
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• 704[10:47:03] <gryffus> ksk, replaced-url
• 705[10:47:50] <ksk> as far as I can tell its rather close to debian, but includes all the non-free drivers you would want to have and such
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• 707[10:48:18] <ksk> also, they have funny release names, so there is that..
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• 710[10:48:54] <gryffus> ksk, yeah, it looks very nice, it even has chntpw etc... Could be useful
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• 713[10:50:02] <gryffus> It will be nice to have one rpm-based bistro and one deb-based bistro on the rescue stick. I have chosen SUSE for the RPM-based and this will DEB-based one
• 714[10:51:17] <Haohmaru> bistro?
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• 716[10:52:10] <shtrb> distro
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• 718[10:53:38] <ksk> I present: The Debian GNU/Linux Bistrobution
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• 720[10:54:37] <Haohmaru> Bistros and Cafes are closed until january ;P~
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• 723[10:58:30] <gryffus> Lul..... s/bistro/distro/ :D
• 724[10:59:08] <gryffus> Funny typo... Will use it more frequently from now on :D
• 725[10:59:12] <jelly> were jdk binaries always that large?
• 726[10:59:20] <jelly> Get:105 replaced-url
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• 730[11:05:33] <EdePopede> no: replaced-url
• 731[11:06:33] <jelly> openjdk-11 build for amd64 is a lot smaller than the one for i386
• 732[11:07:28] <EdePopede> oh, i386. always too many relevand fields in these lines
• 733[11:07:30] <EdePopede> s/d/t/
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• 739[11:16:20] <EdePopede> there's a much bigger jump from 11.0.6 to 11.0.9 for i386 than for amd64. still all i386 being bigger than amd64.
• 740[11:16:46] <EdePopede> and i wish i have more options than to sort by size and mark a simple substring :/
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• 746[11:20:06] <Logg> Is there a way to remove or replace or configure GtkFileChooserDialog
• 747[11:20:21] *** Quits: crawler (~crawler@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 748[11:21:05] <Logg> it's terrible, it doesn't have a place to paste file paths & if I start typing folders it thinks I'm trying to search and just stops displaying any data at all until it completes its lengthy search process. It is asinine and I"m done with it.
• 749[11:22:09] *** Joins: k4nz (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 750[11:22:59] <format_c> As far as I know is GtkFileChooserDialog complete composition, where you can control a few things using flags. However, you could also build your own dialog and use GtkFileChooser as a widget along with something else you would need.
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• 760[11:29:03] <Logg> not sure how to set the flags, but if there is a flag that will give me a proper address bar, I would love that
• 761[11:29:07] <Logg> replaced-url
• 762[11:29:31] <Logg> this is the worst possible interface for a file chooser. even the old java applet ones are better cause at least they don't freeze up if you start typing a folder name
• 763[11:30:54] <ratrace> switch to kde? :)
• 764[11:32:25] <Logg> i'm using awesomewm, I think it's on top of xfce, but I set it up a long time ago. I think the problem is that I'm using a gnome app (geany), which other than this really awful file chooser is a very good program
• 765[11:32:30] *** Joins: patafix (~tombom@replaced-ip)
• 766[11:32:35] <avu> Logg: regarding "no place to paste paths", press C-l to get that input box
• 767[11:32:37] <lowin> Logg, press ctrl+L
• 768[11:32:44] <Logg> my god
• 769[11:32:46] <Logg> lol
• 770[11:33:04] <Logg> that helps
• 771[11:33:16] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 772[11:33:20] <lowin> Yeah it took me a few years before I found out about it
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• 775[11:34:02] <patafix> Hello everyone. I have a usb drive with debian 10 kde live, and I'm booting it on a fresh amd build. Thing is, it doesn't start with graphics, only command line. This are the 2-3 lines of output I have, I don't think they are relevant
• 776[11:34:07] <avu> works the same in any browser and even the windows explorer btw :)
• 777[11:35:01] <Logg> yea, I know ctrl-L, but usually there will be a button for it, like it should have that "enter sign" button to the left of the "folder path buttons" to indicate that it can switch to a text field, as seen in other gnome programs...
• 778[11:35:08] <Logg> to the right*
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• 780[11:35:26] <patafix> AMD-Vi: unable to write to IOMMU perf counter \n sd 9:0.0.0 [sdb] No Caching mode page was found \n sd 9::0:0:0 [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through
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• 782[11:35:51] <avu> Logg: yeah, the discoverability of this feature in nautilus and the open dialog is zero :(
• 783[11:35:56] <ratrace> Logg: I don't think you can avoid the dialog for any software built against gtk3, and that's pretty much all of gtk based software
• 784[11:36:05] <patafix> if I try to startx I have the /home/user/.Xauthority doesn't exist
• 785[11:36:16] <Logg> ratrace, :(
• 786[11:36:16] <ratrace> you _coudl_ rebuild against gtk2, where possible, but ..... rebuild.
• 787[11:36:52] <ratrace> or use Gentoo. you can select which gtk you're building against during package installation :)
• 788[11:37:15] <Logg> love debian stable too much but thanks for the suggestion.
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• 793[11:40:40] <Logg> Wonder if there could be some way to ... idk, hijack calls to arbitrary file choosers (or the most popular ones), and reroute them to the file chooser that the user wants to use. Linux philosophy is that programs should be small & interoperable, like command line programs, you can pipe data from one to the other and all the programs work together. But this "file chooser comes with the program" crap is kind of the opposite. It forces the user to use whatever
• 794[11:40:40] <Logg> file chooser the programmers & maintainers of that specific package have decided that you should use. It's a mishmash of all different file choosers and sometimes I get the good one and sometimes I get this crappy one that freezes when I try to jump to folders by typing their name
• 795[11:42:02] <ratrace> the "unix philosophy", not "linux..." about interoperability does not preclude linking. you can rebuild, relink, and achieve what you want. there is NO promise about binary packages that are pre-built for you. no promise nor flexibility.
• 796[11:42:17] <Logg> Rant aside, CTRL-L helps, thanks
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• 799[11:47:10] <BCMM> iirc there was some LD_PRELOAD hack for replacing the GTK file picker
• 800[11:47:14] <BCMM> but, obviously, kind of hacky
• 801[11:48:00] <Logg> sounds cool
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• 804[11:48:49] <gryffus> replaced-url
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• 806[11:48:55] <gryffus> I believe this is it
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• 808[11:50:29] <BCMM> but pretty sure GTK applications can and do access, like, internal widgets of the dialog, so this isn't going to work right with everything
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• 810[11:52:05] <gryffus> ROFL... Just found this bug: replaced-url
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• 812[11:52:40] <gryffus> I thought that KDE has ridiculously old bugs... Seems not only KDE
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• 814[11:52:55] <Logg> opened 16 years ago...
• 815[11:53:13] <gryffus> Yeah
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• 817[11:53:27] <gryffus> Implement thumbnails in file chooser
• 818[11:53:38] <Logg> > Until we get a merge request that we can review, "random patches on github" are not something we're going to look at, sorry.
• 819[11:53:57] <Logg> must be overworked or something
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• 821[11:54:02] <gryffus> Patches already exist: replaced-url
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• 823[11:54:20] <gryffus> Yes , nobody sent them PR, it seems
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• 826[11:55:08] <patafix> Hello everyone. I have a usb drive with debian 10 kde live, and I'm booting it on a fresh amd build. Thing is, it doesn't start with graphics, only command line. This are the 2-3 lines of output I have before going to the command line
• 827[11:55:13] <patafix> AMD-Vi: unable to write to IOMMU perf counter
• 828[11:55:13] <patafix> sd 9:0.0.0 [sdb] No Caching mode page was found
• 829[11:55:13] <patafix> sd 9::0:0:0 [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through
• 830[11:55:25] <patafix> if I try to startx I have the /home/user/.Xauthority doesn't exist
• 831[11:55:29] <patafix> Any help?
• 832[11:56:52] <quadrathoch2> did you install the firmware patafix?
• 833[11:58:27] <phogg> gryffus: if you read the bug thread you will see that a PR was sent by the author of those patches and he was told basically "fix this other unrelated bug first, then maybe we'll talk"
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• 840[12:02:29] <patafix> quadrathoch2, not really, I could try installing it now from the command line
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• 842[12:03:31] <patafix> firmware-amd-graphics is already at the newest version
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• 846[12:05:09] <quadrathoch2> what does 'sudo systemctl isolate graphical.target'?
• 847[12:06:16] <patafix> quadrathoch2, Failed to start graphical-target: operation refused, unit may not be isolated. See system logs and 'systemctl status graphical-target.target' for details
• 848[12:06:51] <patafix> After giving systemctl status graphical-target.target: Unit graphical-target.target could not be found.
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• 851[12:13:29] <quadrathoch2> did you mistype? as its with a dot not a pipe (or whatever it's called)
• 852[12:13:33] <quadrathoch2> patafix ^
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• 855[12:14:51] <patafix> ops, yes sorry quadrathoch2 , it gave me no output with the dot
• 856[12:14:58] <patafix> just got back to command line
• 857[12:15:04] <patafix> to prompt I mean
• 858[12:15:16] <quadrathoch2> oO
• 859[12:15:42] <quadrathoch2> you just used the live usb and installed debian?
• 860[12:15:56] <patafix> I didn't install yet, I'm in live
• 861[12:16:10] <patafix> trying to check if it works before installing
• 862[12:17:07] <quadrathoch2> ahh, so you are still booted into live? what does ctrl+alt+f7 do?
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• 864[12:17:36] <patafix> nothing, there is no graphical over there
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• 866[12:18:08] <quadrathoch2> and also not on f2?
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• 868[12:18:42] <patafix> nope, tried all of them
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• 870[12:19:07] <quadrathoch2> you booted into the cli? patafix
• 871[12:19:19] <patafix> no I booted asking for live graphical
• 872[12:19:34] <patafix> already tried on another pc in the same way and it works just alright
• 873[12:20:19] <quadrathoch2> so did it boot into graphical or do you want to?
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• 875[12:21:03] <patafix> on this pc it doesn't boot into graphical, but I want it to
• 876[12:21:22] <patafix> on other machines it boots into kde just fine
• 877[12:21:24] <quadrathoch2> !firmware
• 878[12:21:24] <dpkg> Firmware is software to operate electronic devices, usually contained in EPROM or flash memory. Some Linux kernel drivers require firmware to be provided from userspace, notably for <WiFi> devices. Most firmware files are not part of a Debian release as they do not conform to the <DFSG>; some are available via <contrib> and <non-free> packages, ask me about <search>. See also <installer firmware>. replaced-url
• 879[12:21:39] <quadrathoch2> !installer firmware
• 880[12:21:40] <dpkg> Debian-Installer is able to load additional <firmware>, by including it within installation media or supplying on removable media (e.g. USB stick, floppy). See replaced-url
• 881[12:22:48] <patafix> I already instlled firmware-amd-graphics
• 882[12:22:49] <quadrathoch2> argh, did you use the nonfree firmware live usb patafix
• 883[12:22:57] <patafix> yes
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• 886[12:23:10] <quadrathoch2> what gpu do you have?
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• 888[12:24:16] <patafix> integrated, Radeon RX Vega 11 (it's a Ryzen 5 3400G)
• 889[12:25:04] <quadrathoch2> oh the kernel is too old for that, you would need to have the one from backports
• 890[12:25:23] <quadrathoch2> which you can only install when debian is installed
• 891[12:25:33] <patafix> Oh I see, that is eady enough to do
• 892[12:25:36] <patafix> easy*
• 893[12:25:50] <patafix> I should use backports and get the 5.8.0.0?
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• 895[12:26:04] <quadrathoch2> yes plus the firmware-amd-graphics
• 896[12:26:25] <patafix> perfect, I'll give it a try, thanks!
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• 901[12:32:23] <jelly> it's 5.9 now in backports is it
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• 906[12:35:09] <Onyx47> yes, it is
• 907[12:35:11] <TomyWork> replaced-url
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• 911[12:35:56] <TomyWork> do i just set all to 0 and default to 1 and then override for my one interface?
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• 913[12:36:19] <jelly> TomyWork: I don't think that will work, but TIAS
• 914[12:36:36] <jelly> what will work is disabling it per-iface explicitely
• 915[12:36:42] <TomyWork> jelly, well have you seen that list? TIAS doesn't work
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• 917[12:37:06] <TomyWork> cause it's all inconsistent and i dont even know what half of these things on the list mean
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• 919[12:37:15] <Onyx47> and it's now causing me pain, something broke with drivers for Intel IGPUs on some ancient Celeron CPUs in some newer kernel version, not sure which but 4.19 and associated modules work fine... ugh, dealing with ancient hardware...
• 920[12:37:26] *** Quits: sh9 (~sh9@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 921[12:37:55] <TomyWork> jelly, i guess that's what i'll have to do then :/
• 922[12:38:15] <jelly> !pal TomyWork
• 923[12:38:15] * dpkg points at TomyWork and laughs uproariously
• 924[12:38:33] <jelly> see, there's a factoid to mock every occasion
• 925[12:38:40] <TomyWork> hey
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• 927[12:40:01] <TomyWork> great, now even dpkg laughs at me
• 928[12:40:35] <jelly> no no, it laughs WITH... oh wait, it's actually laughing at you.
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• 930[12:42:02] <mpLsJoker> that's where sulogin is now on my kali live usb. When I first made it before leaving it physically unattended i was able to use 'single init=/bin/zsh rw' worked like a charm
• 931[12:42:22] <TomyWork> but really, why even have these two flags if they're interpreted inconsistently throughout the kernel? that seems dumb
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• 933[12:43:30] <TomyWork> i would have expected default/all to work like LANG/LC_ALL and I'm glad I checked that assumption
• 934[12:45:37] <jelly> TomyWork: don't look under the hood, you might find things are held together with scotch tape and bubblegum
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• 936[12:46:15] <TomyWork> that's more like a rusty piece of jagged metal sticking up through the hood
• 937[12:46:17] <jelly> Linux kernel is not that great at API design, esp. future-proofing
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• 941[12:48:18] <EdePopede> sounds like Tesla
• 942[12:48:57] <TomyWork> what I learned is: *never ever* have net.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6 != net.ipv6.conf.default.disable_ipv6
• 943[12:49:08] *** Joins: knidos (~knidos@replaced-ip)
• 944[12:49:36] <jelly> I don't usually disable ipv6, but when I do, I use the kernel boot parameter
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• 946[12:50:12] <jelly> that obviously won't help your use case, sorry
• 947[12:50:13] <TomyWork> doesn't sound like that's particularly fine-grained
• 948[12:50:23] <jelly> it's a hammer
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• 951[12:51:52] <shtrb> What does enable write to /var/log/journal in debian ?
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• 954[12:52:54] <shtrb> never mind sorry , /lib/systemd/system/systemd-journald.service
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• 957[12:54:02] <jelly> shtrb: it's a code path in journald, not a config file or config option
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• 959[12:54:21] <jelly> well it's an option as well
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• 961[12:54:40] <shtrb> It's just I don't remember ever enabling it by default (maybe I did and forgot )
• 962[12:55:17] <jelly> Storage= in /etc/systemd/journald.conf, and the default is "if directory exists, use it for permanent storage"
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• 964[12:56:04] <jelly> so a simple mkdir /var/log/journal, and reboot, will make journald write there
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• 968[12:57:06] <shtrb> no, I have a different problem I do not understand when and how I got it , files are already , grep Storage /etc/systemd/journald.conf give me #Storage=auto (I guess not enabled) but the folder does exist
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• 970[12:57:44] <TomyWork> another ipv6 question, kind of... I have a private IPv6 network with like half a dozen hosts. I want to designate one of them as a DHCPv6 server. Does that require me giving that particular machine a static IP or can a dhcpv6 server operate on an interface without an assigned ipv6 address?
• 971[12:58:43] <TomyWork> hmm, might be more of a ##networking question :)
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• 973[12:59:01] <Dagger> you don't need a static IP for it... clients reach it via a well-known multicast address
• 974[13:00:32] <shtrb> By default /var/log/journal should not exist correct (buster) ?
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• 989[13:08:07] <gryffus> phogg, hehe that's funny... Actually, gnome seemed to me always more as a fun and/or study project than really productive DE. Maybe because I absolutely need customisability in apps I use
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• 994[13:16:00] <jelly> shtrb: correct
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• 996[13:20:20] <shtrb> Thanks
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• 1138[15:30:49] <choice> Howdy Everyone!
• 1139[15:30:55] <choice> Is it possible to backup the text messages on my android phone to my Debian laptop?
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• 1141[15:34:12] <queip> choice: probably some app to create a file and then download it? maybe also ask #android
• 1142[15:34:53] <choice> queip: I would not want to install 3rd party apps on the phone.
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• 1145[15:37:06] <jelly> would you want to save and restore backups over adb
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• 1148[15:37:34] <choice> jelly: adb can access the text messages?
• 1149[15:37:51] <Onyx47> choice: IIRC all the messages are in a sqlite database *somewhere* on the phone, so potentially it's doable without any extra apps but I'm unsure about the details
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• 1156[15:38:40] <jelly> likewise
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• 1158[15:38:46] <choice> Onyx47: I would think they are in a dir that is not accessible via adb.
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• 1161[15:38:51] <jelly> find an android channel for details
• 1162[15:39:08] <choice> jelly: People in #android only know how to install apps :)
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• 1166[15:39:20] <jelly> !they don't know
• 1167[15:39:20] <dpkg> We're sorry your distro's channel isn't being helpful, but that doesn't make it appropriate to use #debian for non-Debian questions. Please go back to your channel and wait patiently for better help, or install Debian and party with us.
• 1168[15:41:41] <queip> lol at this being a factoi
• 1169[15:41:42] <queip> -d
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• 1172[15:45:12] <jelly> we have some rather mean factoids
• 1173[15:45:23] <n4dir> !hello
• 1174[15:45:23] <dpkg> Hi, n4dir!
• 1175[15:45:29] <n4dir> damnit, that was better
• 1176[15:45:29] <jelly> they're from a different time
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• 1178[15:45:50] <n4dir> The fable at wiki.debian.org might speak of that time ...
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• 1204[16:06:52] <patafix> quadrathoch2, worked like a charm, thanks!
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• 1212[16:09:11] <quadrathoch2> yw patafix :)
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• 1244[16:35:25] <Franciman> Hi, I don't quite understand what are the patches that debian applies to the vanilla kernel
• 1245[16:35:34] <Franciman> apart from those that remove the proprietary blobs
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• 1249[16:37:45] <quadrathoch2> Franciman I am pretty sure you can find them here replaced-url
• 1250[16:38:56] <Franciman> eheh thanks, I tried to watch there, but I can't understand what it is going on :P is there a sort of tutorial about how it works?
• 1251[16:39:12] <quadrathoch2> Franciman tutorial for what?
• 1252[16:39:30] <Franciman> for learning how to read what's in that repo
• 1253[16:39:37] <prg318> README is a good place to start
• 1254[16:39:50] <quadrathoch2> if there would be one ;) prg318
• 1255[16:39:54] <prg318> replaced-url
• 1256[16:40:05] <Franciman> neado
• 1257[16:40:06] <Franciman> thanks
• 1258[16:40:08] <quadrathoch2> oh nice
• 1259[16:40:11] <quadrathoch2> didn't see that
• 1260[16:40:11] <Franciman> I opened README.source
• 1261[16:40:21] <Franciman> thnks very much
• 1262[16:40:26] <Franciman> long live debian and free software
• 1263[16:40:28] <prg318> It's not a ton of info, but its a very high level
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• 1265[16:40:37] <prg318> high level summary*
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• 1267[16:40:57] <prg318> README.source is also informative
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• 1279[16:55:02] <oxek> is there any way I can prevent a .deb file from adding things to sources.list? I know dpkg runs with root privileges, so the .deb can do anything it wants to the system, but perhaps I missed something.
• 1280[16:55:47] <greycat> some third-party packages install a file in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ so they can upgrade themselves
• 1281[16:56:21] <mutante> you could delete sources.list.d and only use /etc/apt/sources.list yourself and then they cant drop snippets into it :p
• 1282[16:56:24] <greycat> if a package is editing /etc/apt/sources.list instead of using the sources.list.d/ mechanism, that package is probably not very good
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• 1285[16:59:07] <oxek> the packages drop things in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ and trusted.gpg.d
• 1286[16:59:15] <oxek> so they are "well behaved" in that regard
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• 1289[16:59:57] <oxek> I still don't like it that they add repos without something prompting the user if that's what the user really wants to happen
• 1290[17:00:40] <oxek> somehow I thought /etc/apt/ would have some extra protections against modification
• 1291[17:00:45] <greycat> nope
• 1292[17:01:06] <oxek> yeah, you're right, root can do anything
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• 1294[17:01:17] <greycat> if you as the sysadmin would like to add extra protections on things, there's always chattr +i
• 1295[17:01:31] <oxek> does that work on who directories?
• 1296[17:01:35] <oxek> I only used that for files
• 1297[17:01:36] <greycat> Not a clue.
• 1298[17:01:42] <oxek> *whole
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• 1300[17:03:01] <n4dir> doesn't sound like that much extra work to check for added repo entries and remove them again
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• 1302[17:03:30] <oxek> it's not that much work, true. I just did not expect it to happen and was surprised new repos were being hit on `apt update`
• 1303[17:03:32] <n4dir> or comment them, if that suits the situation any better
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• 1305[17:04:25] <mutante> you could use selinux or tomoyo kernel security modules to restrict the access to /etc/apt
• 1306[17:04:59] <mutante> tomoyo has some kind of "learn mode" where you can say don't actually restrict stuff but log it.. and then turn the logs into rules that get enforced later
• 1307[17:05:32] <oxek> sounds like it would work, and also sounds like something that is guaranteed to have unforeseen consequences
• 1308[17:06:10] <oxek> and I don't have the skills yet to handle that
• 1309[17:06:19] <quadrathoch2> tomoyo sounds like selinux/apparmor?
• 1310[17:06:30] <quadrathoch2> or am i wrong
• 1311[17:06:56] <oxek> talking of apt, I saw there's a security update for it today. Is it something very critical or something that can wait?
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• 1313[17:07:26] <n4dir> apt-listchanges?
• 1314[17:07:50] <oxek> SECURITY UPDATE: Integer overflow in parsing (LP: #1899193)
• 1315[17:07:57] <oxek> no idea what LP is, it's not the debian bugreport
• 1316[17:08:08] <azeem> launchpad
• 1317[17:08:21] <oxek> yeah, that would make sense
• 1318[17:08:28] <mutante> quadrathoch2: yes, there are ~ 4 of those modules that come with the kernel, tomoyo, selinux, apparmor and smack
• 1319[17:08:39] <mutante> but tomoyo is easier to setup than selinux
• 1320[17:08:40] <azeem> oxek: AFAICT it's more like a DoS, not a remote code execution
• 1321[17:08:46] <azeem> but I'd rather upgrade
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• 1324[17:10:31] <quadrathoch2> mutante thanks, never heard of the other 2
• 1325[17:11:57] <oxek> azeem: I'll definitely update, the question is when. Whether I need to do it asap before any scheduled `apt update` or `apt upgrade` automatically happen, or whether I can do it when it is more convenient (over the weekend).
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• 1359[17:46:43] <jhutchins> oxek: The protection is there, it's the admonition not to add packages from third-party sources.
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• 1362[17:46:57] <jhutchins> oxek: If you choose to do that, you've chosen to bypass the protection.
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• 1371[17:49:36] <n4dir> and if you add third-party anyway, getting updates for those packages - i am not sure if that is a bad thing in general
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• 1379[17:56:04] <oxek> jhutchins: a fair point, I fully agree with you, though it is at odds with how people use debian in the real world
• 1380[17:57:32] <n4dir> hmm. must be doing it wrong then ... :-)
• 1381[17:57:42] <greycat> I'm not sure what you're saying, oxek.
• 1382[17:58:21] <greycat> are you saying that using third-party packages is odd, or using third-party packages with auto updates is odd, or using third-party packages *without* auto updates is odd, or ...
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• 1385[18:01:25] <oxek> I'm admitting that debian is protected from .deb packages adding stuff to sources.list by telling users to not install .deb packages from outside debian.
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• 1388[18:02:10] <oxek> and at the same time I am stating that in the real world (perhaps I should not use this phrase, but don't know any better right now) few can live without packages that are not part of debian
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• 1391[18:04:16] <oxek> perhaps a fitting comparison. `rm -rf /` used to delete everything, and users were told to not run that if they don't want that to happen. Then eventually a technical solution was added that prevents `rm -rf /` from working unless you also do --no-preserve-root
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• 1393[18:05:07] <oxek> so I was wondering if a technical solution already exists that would provide special protection for /etc/apt/ against modification
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• 1396[18:05:51] <oxek> and yes, SElinux and similar work, but are not native to apt, just like --no-preserve-root is now native to rm.
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• 1401[18:10:39] <n4dir> looking at librazi-apt-deb which adds entries to sources.list.d it seems to be as easy as unpack the *deb and remove the according entries
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• 1407[18:12:58] <n4dir> mc has showed me the content easily, thunar didn't.
• 1408[18:14:04] <oxek> some .deb do not contain the sources.list directly, but generate it as part of postinst or through some other mechanism that would not be visible in dpkg --contents of the .deb
• 1409[18:14:30] <n4dir> i see. thats why i mentioned the deb i used, as i would not know if all do it like that
• 1410[18:15:22] <oxek> I know of one .deb that creates a /etc/cron.daily/ script to recreate the sources.list if deleted
• 1411[18:15:27] <oxek> feels almost like malware
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• 1426[18:25:02] <jhutchins> Ok, I haven't done enough with ipv6. I appear to have three addresses. Which one do I need to specify for cups printing?
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• 1428[18:25:24] <freem> in IPv6 I think localhost is ::1
• 1429[18:25:33] <freem> but why not just use the name "localhost" ?
• 1430[18:26:16] <kayront> does anyone have libpam_google_authenticator working with debian 10 ? the documentation isn't very clear and i keep finding inconsistent answers. here's a text representation of my problem: replaced-url
• 1431[18:26:23] <kayront> freem: yes, ::1 is 127.0.0.1 in v6land
• 1432[18:26:31] <Dagger> ::1 is localhost, but do you want to print to localhost or is this from a remote computer?
• 1433[18:26:31] <EdePopede> at least mysql makes a difference
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• 1435[18:28:01] <Dagger> if you do `ip -6 a` and look for addresses with scope:global and *not* flagged temporary, there'll probably be just one left -- that'll be the fixed SLAAC address, which is what you should use for inbound connections
• 1436[18:29:14] <Dagger> (if there are two addresses without "temporary" then probably one is from SLAAC and one is from DHCPv6 -- normally DHCPv6 assigns shorter addresses, while SLAAC gives you horrible long ones, but DHCPv6 might change the address it gives you while SLAAC will generally stay the same)
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• 1461[18:45:08] <jhutchins> freem: I need to be able to access the printer from other hosts on the LAN.
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• 1466[18:49:32] <gnat_x> jhutchins: if you have that access, set a hostname from the dhcp server.
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• 1468[18:49:48] <gnat_x> let the router figure out where to send the packets.
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• 1470[18:50:48] <jhutchins> gnat_x: This is printer attached to a PC on the network. It has a hostname and an IP address. What I need to know is how to configure the Listen directive in cupsd.conf
• 1471[18:52:03] <gnat_x> oh. that makes sense.
• 1472[18:53:29] <gnat_x> does `Listen hostname.lan:631` not work?
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• 1477[18:56:16] <greycat> can't you just listen on *all* interfaces?
• 1478[18:56:17] <jhutchins> localhost appears to work, <hostname> returns "bad request".
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• 1480[18:56:59] <jhutchins> greycat: Yeah, there should be a wildcard, but cups documentation is ridiculous.
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• 1482[18:59:10] <freem> jhutchins: I read there: " Listen adresse_ipv4:port
• 1483[18:59:10] <freem> Listen [adresse_ipv6]:port
• 1484[18:59:10] <freem> Listen *:port
• 1485[18:59:35] <freem> seems pretty clear to me: last one seems a wildcard that listens on all IPs, 4 and 6?
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• 1487[19:00:03] <greycat> one would think so
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• 1492[19:03:09] <Dagger> it may be sufficient to just specify "Port 631" with no listen directive. that's how mine seems to be configured, and it's listening on :: and 0.0.0.0 (i.e. everything)
• 1493[19:05:16] <ocherno> is this a channel for CentOS refuges ;-)
• 1494[19:05:47] <sney> !centos
• 1495[19:05:47] <dpkg> CentOS (Community ENTerprise Operating System) is a community-maintained distribution based on Red Hat Enterprise Linux. replaced-url
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• 1498[19:06:32] <freem> that quote will require some update.
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• 1503[19:08:38] <Franciman> Hi
• 1504[19:09:07] <Franciman> Is there a way to make an older module work with a new kernel?
• 1505[19:09:16] <Franciman> I have a module from 4.15, I want to make it work with 4.19
• 1506[19:09:25] <Franciman> I get an error related to module layout mismatches
• 1507[19:09:39] <greycat> you have to recompile the module from source, and it must be source-compatible with whatever kernel version you're building for
• 1508[19:10:08] <freem> speaking about cups... manpage says " -l This option is passed to cupsd when it is run from launchd(8) or systemd(8)." ok, sure, but still... what does it do?
• 1509[19:10:10] <greycat> if it's a dkms module, there are automatic packages for handling this stuff
• 1510[19:10:28] <Franciman> dkms means dynamic module, right?
• 1511[19:10:32] <freem> must I read the source to know what this option is?
• 1512[19:10:32] <greycat> !dkms
• 1513[19:10:33] <dpkg> Dynamic Kernel Module Support (DKMS) is a framework for generating out-of-tree Linux kernel modules. Packages using DKMS build modules during installation and when updated Linux versions are installed, provided Linux kernel headers are present (these are not installed by dkms). DKMS-managed modules are installed to /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/updates/dkms/ . The module build log file is at /var/lib/dkms/$module/$version/build/make.log
• 1514[19:11:10] <shtrb> Franciman, if that is module-assitant it's also pretty straight forward to do
• 1515[19:12:12] <sney> and if you're trying to mix a 4.15 version of mainline ath10k_pci with a 4.19 kernel, that's not a thing you can do.
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• 1518[19:13:50] <Franciman> sney, why?
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• 1520[19:14:49] <sney> because they aren't separate components. there may be more than one file on the disk, but your vmlinuz file and the matching /lib/modules tree are *one* kernel
• 1521[19:15:05] <greycat> modules have to be rebooted EVERY time the kernel abi changes, even when it's just from 4.19.0-11-amd64 to 4.19.0-12-amd64
• 1522[19:15:09] <greycat> rebuilt*
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• 1525[19:16:25] <freem> cupsd --help says "-l Run cupsd on demand." so I guess this would be valid too, for example, for inetd?
• 1526[19:17:48] *** Quits: SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 1527[19:18:29] <jhutchins> Dagger: Thanks for looking. These things happen when you run the same system for ten years with upgrades.
• 1528[19:18:29] *** Joins: SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@replaced-ip)
• 1529[19:18:31] <Franciman> uhm
• 1530[19:18:36] <Franciman> sney, so how can I bisect it
• 1531[19:18:41] <jhutchins> I will try that.
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• 1533[19:18:58] <sney> the bisecting process, if you actually read that wiki page, instructs you to rebuild the kernel for each revision.
• 1534[19:19:02] <Franciman> if I try to compile the whole kernel
• 1535[19:19:14] <Franciman> I get a kernel that gets stuck after reboot
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• 1537[19:19:30] <Franciman> I mean there a lot of possible issues that concurr
• 1538[19:19:33] <Franciman> it's an hell
• 1539[19:19:35] <jhutchins> How do you specify a port with an ipv6 address?
• 1540[19:19:57] <ocherno> would you say Debian is established enterprise/smallbusiness distro ?
• 1541[19:20:10] <sney> absolutely
• 1542[19:20:14] *** Quits: tommaso (~tommaso@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1543[19:20:14] <Franciman> yes!
• 1544[19:20:18] <freem> why would it not?
• 1545[19:20:23] <sney> dpkg: centos->debian
• 1546[19:20:24] <dpkg> Each debian stable release is supported for at least 5 years, see replaced-url
• 1547[19:20:29] *** Joins: tommaso (~tommaso@replaced-ip)
• 1548[19:20:44] <Franciman> I think I'm gonna give up :<
• 1549[19:21:05] <Franciman> it's a total nightmare to compile a kernel at a specific commit, and have a zillion possible bugs introduced
• 1550[19:21:29] <fireba11> sney: haha .. that's a bot trigger now? :-D
• 1551[19:21:34] *** Quits: Jerrynicki (~niklas@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 1552[19:21:44] <sney> added it the other day myself! thought we might need it
• 1553[19:21:56] <freem> nice
• 1554[19:23:36] *** Quits: S3xyL1nux (~curt@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 1555[19:23:38] <freem> hum... can't even find quickly where in the code that "-l" option of cupsd is implemented...
• 1556[19:23:51] <sney> Franciman: yeah, it's definitely more of a developer's process. at this point you may be better off picking up a different wifi adapter. I find intel are the most headache-free usually
• 1557[19:24:04] <jhutchins> Ok, according to the log it's listening to all addresses, 6 and 4.
• 1558[19:24:06] <Franciman> I can't sney
• 1559[19:24:09] <Franciman> i damn cant
• 1560[19:24:14] <Franciman> I hate this laptop
• 1561[19:24:17] <jhutchins> ... using the localhost ip.
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• 1564[19:25:17] <Franciman> but I can compile with few modules
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• 1566[19:26:24] <sney> hmm, the ath10k part of the driver tree seems to have its own makefile, so maybe you could finagle this into module-assistant somehow to build the older code with the 4.19 headers
• 1567[19:26:32] <sney> that's just guesses though, and no I will not walk you through it
• 1568[19:26:48] <sney> ref: replaced-url
• 1569[19:27:29] <Franciman> module-assistant huh
• 1570[19:27:38] <sney> !module-assistant
• 1571[19:27:38] <dpkg> module-assistant is a tool helping to build additional (kernel) module packages - from Debian module source packages - and install them. "aptitude install module-assistant". See usage examples at replaced-url
• 1572[19:28:17] <bendem> anyone knows what would cause an udp read from remote port 53 to fail with "permission denied"?
• 1573[19:28:37] <Franciman> thanks sney
• 1574[19:28:52] <Franciman> I'll try to be an asshole and shove the module in the new kernel tree
• 1575[19:29:04] <bendem> I'm trying to setup dns certificate validate, but I could reduce the problem to `dig '@2a06:98c1:50::ac40:2078' +notcp` (tho that times out instead)
• 1576[19:29:18] <Franciman> this damn propertary thing is not going to win
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• 1578[19:30:18] <greycat> "permission denied" is literally impossible when connecting to a network port. It can only arise from file system objects.
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• 1581[19:30:38] <greycat> are you possibly translating something from another language, and *think* it means "permission denied"?
• 1582[19:30:45] <bendem> no
• 1583[19:30:59] <bendem> it's the exact error message straight from caddy
• 1584[19:30:59] <halfbit> is there a git repo or set of source repos/git repos where all the debian files are for building packages
• 1585[19:31:05] <halfbit> looking to see how debian builds a specific package
• 1586[19:31:12] <greycat> because there's also "operation not permitted" which sounds similar but is an entirely different error code
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• 1589[19:31:39] <halfbit> I don't have debian installed atm, so obtaining the deb-src stuff I don't think would be useful
• 1590[19:32:01] <bendem> replaced-url
• 1591[19:32:19] <greycat> halfbit: replaced-url
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• 1593[19:33:35] <bendem> greycat, could it be some systemd filtering?
• 1594[19:33:44] <greycat> bendem: I don't know this software, but it sounds like it's unable to read the file the certificate is in
• 1595[19:33:48] <bendem> The fact that even dig doesn't work makes me thing it's something else
• 1596[19:33:53] <halfbit> replaced-url
• 1597[19:34:01] <halfbit> nada, even though libpqxx depends on it
• 1598[19:34:14] <greycat> libpq-dev is a binary package name, not a source package name
• 1599[19:34:35] <halfbit> ugh I don't know what the source package would be, probably postgresql itself
• 1600[19:34:37] <halfbit> lemme check
• 1601[19:34:39] <greycat> unicorn:~$ apt-cache show libpq-dev | grep Source
• 1602[19:34:39] <greycat> Source: postgresql-11
• 1603[19:34:50] <halfbit> greycat: thank you so much
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• 1607[19:40:08] <bendem> ok, found the problem, router's firewall was blocking it, forgot that device was in DMZ
• 1608[19:40:32] <freem> can one explain the difference between (from cupsd(8)):
• 1609[19:40:32] <freem> -f Run cupsd in the foreground; the default is to run in the background as a "daemon".
• 1610[19:40:32] <freem> -F Run cupsd in the foreground but detach the process from the controlling terminal and current directory. This is useful for running cupsd from init(8).
• 1611[19:40:32] <freem> -l This option is passed to cupsd when it is run from launchd(8) or systemd(8).
• 1612[19:41:09] <freem> (I am trying to make it run through runsvdir)
• 1613[19:41:50] <freem> in practice, when running cupsd by hand, behavior _appear_ to be the same
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• 1620[19:46:13] <pasiz> freem if process is run attached, background, your terminal will echo messages and cups dies when terminal dies or logout. If it's detached, it doesn't die when running enviroment dies
• 1621[19:48:08] <pasiz> so cups is not child process of controlling terminal in process tree
• 1622[19:48:20] <freem> pasiz: so, running `cupsd -F` is like running `nohup cupsd -f` ? Also, cups does not seems to log to stdout/stderr anyway, or at least not by default.
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• 1626[19:49:26] <freem> seems strange to me
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• 1629[19:50:39] <freem> in the 3 cases, it runs foreground, so will die if parent dies, I think. Guess I'll try reading the code more
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• 1633[19:53:42] <pasiz> freem: what you are trying to achieve
• 1634[19:53:55] <freem> use runit to manage cups.
• 1635[19:54:28] <freem> I could just go and test without understanding what I'm doing, it would probably work, but would not allow me to actually learn how things works
• 1636[19:54:31] <b1ackandwh1te> hi, good to be here again... my problem: install electrum bitcoin in debin 9 xfce
• 1637[19:54:36] <greycat> shouldn't be hard to take the command and its arguments from the systemd unit...?
• 1638[19:54:39] <b1ackandwh1te> replaced-url
• 1639[19:55:06] <freem> greycat: yes, I could. It just runs "cupsd -l". That does not tell me how -l is different to -f
• 1640[19:55:19] <pasiz> you don't usually need no parameters exept -c to run cups as daemon
• 1641[19:55:33] <freem> if there was only -f, I would not have questionned myself much, that's what daemons have usually (or -d or --debug)
• 1642[19:56:01] <freem> pasiz: wrong. I want it managed, so, not double forking
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• 1644[19:56:05] <greycat> freem: ok, yeah, the man page is not great. Good luck.
• 1645[19:56:20] <jelly> freem: isn't runit like daemontools, it wants the service to be running in foreground and not daemonize itself?
• 1646[19:56:22] <freem> yep, it looks like "forgotten knowledge" :)
• 1647[19:56:24] *** Joins: Jerrynicki (~niklas@replaced-ip)
• 1648[19:56:26] <b1ackandwh1te> i did the recommended in website wit pip bun i cant run it
• 1649[19:56:37] <freem> jelly: yes, it's one of the daemontools children
• 1650[19:57:32] <pasiz> then run it foreground
• 1651[19:57:36] <freem> there is a package in debian stable to use it as init system, but I do it since at least debian 9, even if I don't have all stuff managed there. I'm improving things from time to time
• 1652[19:57:38] <pasiz> without detaching
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• 1654[19:57:46] <pasiz> see process table when started
• 1655[19:57:57] <greycat> He's trying to learn what an undocumented option that the systemd unit uses, does.
• 1656[19:58:20] <freem> still, why do systemd requires a different option? It normally works the same way as daemontools on that regard
• 1657[19:59:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1225
• 1658[19:59:08] <freem> I don't believe for any second they would have added some special treatment just to annoy others. Just they were too lazy to write the doc
• 1659[19:59:22] <jelly> it's possible cups has added special systemd sauce into their code
• 1660[19:59:29] <jelly> -l This option is passed to cupsd when it is run from launchd(8) or systemd(8).
• 1661[19:59:56] *** Quits: __marco (~marco@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 1662[20:00:00] <greycat> I called it undocumented, because that's literally all it says.
• 1663[20:00:02] <freem> Yes, I've read it. I've thought maybe the socket activation mechanism? Is it present in launchd?
• 1664[20:00:10] <jelly> peruse the source, Luke
• 1665[20:00:23] <freem> yeah, that's what I'll do
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• 1668[20:00:36] <freem> except can't really grep there :)
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• 1671[20:01:22] <pasiz> -l is run on demand. IdleExitTimeout isn't functional without -l
• 1672[20:01:23] <freem> fun fact: % grep -r -e "[^\>]-l\>" --exclude-dir=locale --exclude-dir=test --exclude=configure --exclude='CHANGES*txt' --exclude-dir=doc --exclude-dir=filter --exclude-dir=ppdc --exclude-dir=debian | xclip
• 1673[20:01:28] <freem> replaced-url
• 1674[20:01:48] <freem> the -l line is different in code than in manpage
• 1675[20:02:12] *** Quits: prints (~333@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 1676[20:02:14] <freem> IdleExitTimeout ?
• 1677[20:02:27] *** Joins: k4nz1 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 1678[20:02:36] <freem> oh nice! thanks pasiz
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• 1682[20:03:04] <pasiz> no problem, source isn't very hard to obtain
• 1683[20:03:19] <freem> I have not found it in source actually
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• 1686[20:03:30] <freem> only the "-l is run on demand"
• 1687[20:03:39] <sillyslux_> what do you think of deb-multimedia.org? i think i remember weird things about them
• 1688[20:03:52] <jelly> run on demand sounds like socket activation.
• 1689[20:04:02] <sney> !why not dmm
• 1690[20:04:02] <dpkg> The deb-multimedia.org repository was once the only way of getting good multimedia support. By the release of Debian 6.0 "Squeeze" this was mostly not true and for Debian 7 "Wheezy" this situation is even better. Libraries from dmm are known to cause incompatibilities with packages from Debian; packages may not meet the <DFSG> so are not allowed in Debian. Use dmm as a last resort; ask me about <dmm pinning> and <dmm remove>.
• 1691[20:04:31] <sney> sillyslux_: whenever I use dmm for something, I install my 1 package and then disable the repo again
• 1692[20:04:35] <sillyslux_> last resort sounds good
• 1693[20:04:45] <sillyslux_> ty
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• 1696[20:05:55] <freem> jelly: maybe. I don't know how to check that nor what special treatment it requires
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• 1698[20:06:23] <sney> b1ackandwh1te: as the download page says, electrum requires python 3.6.1 or higher. Debian 9 only has python3 3.5.3. Try the appimage instead
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• 1700[20:07:31] <jelly> freem: scheduler/main.c is where the command-line arguments are parsed
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• 1703[20:09:59] <freem> by default, cupsd -f does not exit after 60 seconds without activity
• 1704[20:10:14] <freem> silly me, it's with -l I guess
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• 1706[20:10:33] <b1ackandwh1te> sney: ive just runned without installation following the recommended by the url above, thanks
• 1707[20:10:41] <freem> I'll read it in few minutes jelly. Lunch awaits.
• 1708[20:12:35] <jelly> freem: -f seems to be very similar to -l, except -l changes if HAVE_ONDEMAND is defined, and that only happens if launchd, systemd or upstart support is detected at compile time
• 1709[20:12:54] <jelly> so yeah, special sauce
• 1710[20:13:59] <pasiz> it's for terminating if no targets need it
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• 1713[20:15:10] <pasiz> so in case udev doesn't need cups target, it closes down after IdleExitTimeout
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• 1716[20:15:39] <sillyslux_> oh nice, now i have a recent kodi build with tvheadend support
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• 1720[20:16:16] <jelly> and now I'm hungry as well
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• 1773[20:45:48] <Franciman> prolly, I say prolly, there has been a change in the dma library
• 1774[20:45:58] <Franciman> hard to debug tho,
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• 1781[20:48:54] <freem> jelly, pasiz, thanks you very much for those explanations
• 1782[20:49:04] <ratrace> Franciman: Yes, Foghorn.
• 1783[20:49:15] <Franciman> foghorn? let's see
• 1784[20:49:32] <ratrace> oh a misunderstanding.
• 1785[20:49:36] <Franciman> in italian foghorn is said nautofono
• 1786[20:49:38] <Franciman> nice
• 1787[20:49:53] <Franciman> brb
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• 1792[20:51:49] <f8e4> hi, where to install local built files?
• 1793[20:51:53] <f8e4> its a simple bin
• 1794[20:52:20] <f8e4> where to lookup a what is what /foo..
• 1795[20:52:24] <f8e4> under root
• 1796[20:52:25] <ratrace> I stuff them under /usr/local/bin/
• 1797[20:52:27] <gnat_x> f8e4: what do you mean by install?
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• 1799[20:52:59] <f8e4> ratrace these are not source right, /usr/bin is
• 1800[20:53:04] <gnat_x> f8e4: echo "$PATH"
• 1801[20:53:13] <greycat> do not put your local things in /usr/bin. put them in /uur/local/bin
• 1802[20:53:16] <greycat> do not put your local things in /usr/bin. put them in /usr/local/bin
• 1803[20:53:39] <ratrace> f8e4: I'm havign trouble parsing that
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• 1805[20:54:14] <gnat_x> that will tell you where the system looks, and you do not put you things in /usr/bin put them is /usr/local/bin or ~/.local/bin
• 1806[20:54:18] <f8e4> np ty
• 1807[20:54:42] <f8e4> now: another repo: make all; make install; now keep the repo around due uninstall laterif
• 1808[20:54:50] <f8e4> (no packaging ok) y think?
• 1809[20:54:58] <f8e4> standard way doing things
• 1810[20:55:08] <f8e4> going from a gitub src to installed
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• 1813[20:55:30] <ratrace> am I having a stronk? I can't parse half of that......
• 1814[20:55:38] <greycat> Debian's default ~/.profile (/etc/skel/.profile) will add ~/bin and ~/.local/bin to your PATH if they exist at login time, and if your login actually reads a .profile file.
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• 1816[20:56:54] <f8e4> greycat oh; thus i3 in cmdbar my bin no avail; why?: i have export in .bashrc
• 1817[20:57:19] <dob1> ,v taskwarrior
• 1818[20:57:20] <f8e4> so ligthdm login to i3; bin avail if put in .profile?
• 1819[20:57:20] <judd> Package: taskwarrior on amd64 -- jessie: 2.3.0+dfsg-3; stretch: 2.5.1+dfsg-3; stretch-backports: 2.5.1+dfsg-5~bpo9+1; buster: 2.5.1+dfsg-7; bullseye: 2.5.1+dfsg-11; sid: 2.5.1+dfsg-11
• 1820[20:57:25] <greycat> The actual files that are read when you login depend on HOW you login.
• 1821[20:57:38] <ratrace> f8e4: no, you need to define PATH in ~/.xsessionrc
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• 1823[20:57:50] <greycat> If you login on a console and run startx, everything will be SIMPLE and EASY and will WORK. That's why many of us continue to use that method.
• 1824[20:57:51] <ratrace> lightdm will not touch your shell rcs, for dmenu paths
• 1825[20:58:00] <greycat> If you login with a GUI, things will work or not work at random.
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• 1828[20:58:37] <greycat> I made my GOD DAMNED BEST ATTEMPT to understand pieces of this crap and document it on the wiki....
• 1829[20:58:50] <f8e4> greycat yes; i hate random too
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• 1831[20:59:01] <greycat> replaced-url
• 1832[21:00:15] <f8e4> wait; why do i need a DisplayManager for login only NO
• 1833[21:00:32] <greycat> This would be your opportunity to tell us what you ARE using.
• 1834[21:00:50] <ratrace> f8e4: because a DM sets things up securely
• 1835[21:01:07] <greycat> ...?
• 1836[21:01:28] <greycat> do you mean "as opposed to a console login + startx", or "as opposed to an autologin", or something else?
• 1837[21:01:34] <f8e4> i come from xfce4 ligthdm; i use what is there by default; i like tty1 better if i can jump to i3 directly after login; no funky mess and bling bling
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• 1839[21:02:04] <greycat> You're using lightdm. OK. Follow the advice on the wiki page. If you want your shell stuff to be read at login time, dot it in from ~/.xsessionrc but make sure it's using sh syntax only.
• 1840[21:02:11] <mrkramps> yutostarting startx just requires a line in ~/.profile
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• 1842[21:03:08] <ratrace> greycat: as opposed to startx run from a shell
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• 1845[21:03:57] <gnat_x> ratrace: does a DM do something that `exec startx` doesn't doe?
• 1846[21:04:01] <gnat_x> do
• 1847[21:04:22] <ratrace> gnat_x: there's no shell you end up on when you crash xorg
• 1848[21:05:03] <mrkramps> ratrace, like in "you have to use keyboard to switch tty"?
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• 1850[21:05:24] <f8e4> where to set #alias ll='ls -l'
• 1851[21:06:02] <greycat> f8e4: put aliases in ~/.bashrc assuming you're using bash as your shell
• 1852[21:06:04] <gnat_x> i think the concern is that someone can walk up to a machine, switch to tty1, and hit ctrl-c (or somehow crash X), and the get dropped into an active shell session.
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• 1854[21:06:32] <greycat> gnat_x: that is not longer the case since Stretch. X runs in the same terminal where you ran startx.
• 1855[21:06:50] <greycat> You can't get at the underlying console terminal until you kill X somehow.
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• 1857[21:06:58] <ratrace> mrkramps: when you switch tty, you're presented with login prompt. when you crash xorg started from a shell you're on that user's shell. pwnt
• 1858[21:07:03] <gnat_x> but i thought `exec startx` as opposed to just `startx` handled that.
• 1859[21:07:09] <greycat> It should.
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• 1862[21:07:28] <ratrace> that's the problem, y'all are NOT specifying "exec start" :)
• 1863[21:07:33] <ratrace> *startx
• 1864[21:07:34] <greycat> ratrace: how are you crashing X?
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• 1866[21:07:52] <ratrace> by exploiting its bugs, or xscreensaver's bugs
• 1867[21:07:56] <gnat_x> yeah i switched to a DM around stretch, though this is all making me want to switch back.
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• 1871[21:08:23] <f8e4> why use zsh over bash?
• 1872[21:08:33] <f8e4> when, i see it here & there; i dunno eitehr
• 1873[21:08:39] <gnat_x> f8e4: personal preference...
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• 1875[21:08:50] <taman> 'startx & vlock' works for me, even if X crashes, the console is locked
• 1876[21:09:00] <mrkramps> hmkay ... in my case "killall Xorg" works on buster
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• 1878[21:09:05] <gnat_x> f8e4: zsh (i think), has different tab completion, and built ins.
• 1879[21:09:27] <ratrace> taman: if startx exits with nonzero, that && vlock will never run .... or do you literally mean & (background)?
• 1880[21:09:34] <greycat> it's & not &&
• 1881[21:09:39] <ratrace> ah ok
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• 1883[21:10:26] <jelly> f8e4: 20 years ago zsh had significant benefits, today not so much
• 1884[21:10:37] <ratrace> all these are nice suggestoins, but nobody is actually givin the whole procedure when "use startx" is advised :)
• 1885[21:11:08] <ratrace> unsuspecting users told to startx without all the caveats, buts and whatifs. :)
• 1886[21:11:11] <greycat> your hypothetical "If I have physical access to the machine and can magically crash X" is doubly hypothetical.
• 1887[21:11:42] <greycat> for most people, a simple "startx" without any of the fancy add-ons will be perfectly secure
• 1888[21:11:43] <Zathras> Is the "imager" ubuntu package (rpi-image) for installing raspbian fit to run on buster? (noobs seems to be abandoned and Ubuntu is the only supported distro so it seems)
• 1889[21:11:56] <ratrace> few years ago I actually haxx0rd a friends computer with that :) so it's more than hypothetical
• 1890[21:12:02] <mutante> wonders what "support" means in this context
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• 1892[21:12:28] <f8e4> ok; where would put latex root dir, then export it from there ?
• 1893[21:12:43] <f8e4> like path manpath infopath
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• 1896[21:13:38] <jelly> Zathras: we don't know whether it's going to work correctly or even install; there's probably a more involved manual way to make media for r.pi that works
• 1897[21:13:46] <mason> Zathras: wouldn't dd do the trick?
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• 1899[21:14:25] <Zathras> mason, yes, it used to. But now things have changed. Not for the better it seems :-(
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• 1901[21:15:04] <gnat_x> interesting, i have in the past sucessfully dd'd raspbian onto an sdcard, would be sad to see that change.
• 1902[21:15:14] <Zathras> same here
• 1903[21:15:49] <mason> Zathras: I see nothing changed when I look: replaced-url
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• 1908[21:17:15] <Zathras> ah, yes. Needed to look one click further. Sorry
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• 1917[21:25:37] <f8e4> is the mode 'require root pw if user does sudo' better' ?
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• 1921[21:27:15] <BCMM> Zathras: it what sense is noobs abandoned?
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• 1930[21:30:18] <mason> f8e4: That'd obviate sudo.
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• 1932[21:32:48] <mutante> f8e4: apt-get remove sudo and you got that "mode" p
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• 1936[21:35:50] <Zathras> BCMM, in manuals a link to the download page is supplied where one could download Noobs, no more. Now they are pushing Ubuntu, both as installer and as image. When you (extra) select manual download, Noobs is also no longer listed
• 1937[21:37:00] <Zathras> imho NOOBS is a nice service provided by kit packagers, but makes little sense as a download as one could easily make a choice upfront
• 1938[21:37:28] <BCMM> replaced-url
• 1939[21:37:58] <BCMM> and there are commits on github from two weeks ago
• 1940[21:38:49] <Zathras> ok. thanks for the info. To me NOOBS was always an indirect way to install buster
• 1941[21:39:26] <f8e4> mutante folks, the mode exists; just cant remmber
• 1942[21:40:01] <f8e4> mason it doesnt: can login still user pw; but NO sudo prvl escalation
• 1943[21:40:27] <f8e4> ---------------
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• 1945[21:41:02] <f8e4> what do if sth is outdated: -- Requested 'glibmm-2.4 >= 2.64' but version of glibmm is 2.58.0
• 1946[21:41:19] <f8e4> is there like an alternative version
• 1947[21:41:29] *** Quits: bn_work (uid268505@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
• 1948[21:41:59] <greycat> ,v libglibmm-2.4
• 1949[21:42:00] <judd> No package named 'libglibmm-2.4' was found in amd64.
• 1950[21:42:17] <greycat> ,v libglibmm-2.4-dev
• 1951[21:42:18] <judd> Package: libglibmm-2.4-dev on amd64 -- jessie: 2.42.0-1; stretch: 2.50.0-1; buster: 2.58.0-2; bullseye: 2.64.2-2; sid: 2.64.2-2
• 1952[21:43:06] <f8e4> judd can i use bullseye in my buster?
• 1953[21:43:09] <greycat> whatever you're building wants crazy new crap that isn't available in buster, or in buster-backports. you could try backporting this library. or you could install bullseye. or you could use an older version of your thing. or a different thing.
• 1954[21:43:11] <gnat_x> ,v libglibmm-2.4-1v5/
• 1955[21:43:12] <judd> No package named 'libglibmm-2.4-1v5/' was found in amd64.
• 1956[21:43:14] <gnat_x> ,v libglibmm-2.4-1v5
• 1957[21:43:15] <judd> Package: libglibmm-2.4-1v5 on amd64 -- stretch: 2.50.0-1; buster: 2.58.0-2; bullseye: 2.64.2-2; sid: 2.64.2-2
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• 1976[22:01:05] <f8e4> should i give replaced-url
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• 1980[22:02:11] <greycat> ,checkbackport libglibmm-2.4-dev
• 1981[22:02:34] <judd> Backporting package libglibmm-2.4-dev in sid→buster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 12), libglib2.0-dev (>= 2.61.2).
• 1982[22:02:48] <greycat> Might be tricky.
• 1983[22:03:29] <Unit193> (That debhelper-compat is fulfilled, but glib might not be fun..)
• 1984[22:03:52] <f8e4> ,v libglib2.0-dev
• 1985[22:03:53] <judd> Package: libglib2.0-dev on amd64 -- jessie: 2.42.1-1+b1; jessie-security: 2.42.1-1+deb8u3; stretch: 2.50.3-2+deb9u2; buster: 2.58.3-2+deb10u2; bullseye: 2.66.3-2; sid: 2.66.3-2
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• 1987[22:04:33] <f8e4> ,checkbackport libglib2.0-dev
• 1988[22:04:34] <judd> Backporting package libglib2.0-dev in sid→buster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 12), libffi-dev (>= 3.3), libmount-dev (>= 2.35.2-7~) [linux-any];Build-Depends-Indep: gtk-doc-tools (>= 1.32.1).
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• 1990[22:04:57] * f8e4 refuses snap after last experience
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• 1997[22:08:34] <n4dir> there is always the option to check if another application which is in the repositories does just the same
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• 1999[22:09:24] <n4dir> besides what was already said above. Would be more easy if we knew what application we speak of
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• 2007[22:13:50] <mathu> so `sudo apt install emacs` brought in a couple dozen deps and 230mb disk space. i immediately ran `sudo apt purge emacs`. all those deps should be orphaned now, right? but `sudo apt autoremove` says there's nothing to remove
• 2008[22:14:22] <mathu> (yes i was installing and immediately purging emacs on purpose)
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• 2010[22:14:38] <greycat> just to watch it die
• 2011[22:14:46] <sney> mathu: apt will keep stuff installed if it's a recommend or suggest of another package you have on your system
• 2012[22:14:48] <n4dir> might give deborphan a try, perhaps even deborphan --guess-all
• 2013[22:15:17] <mrkramps> reinstall emacs and run apt autoremove --purge emacs*
• 2014[22:15:33] <mathu> sney: there was gtk stuff in there and this is a headless system, would like to know how to tell apt not to recommend that stuff haha
• 2015[22:15:50] <sney> that would be --no-install-recommends, most likely.
• 2016[22:16:15] <mathu> mrkramps: no difference
• 2017[22:16:16] <f8e4> n4dir: cherrytree
• 2018[22:16:17] <n4dir> yeah. just tested. sure not dozens of apps
• 2019[22:17:02] <sney> mathu: if you look at 'apt show emacs' you see Depends: emacs-gtk (>= 1:27.1) | emacs-lucid (>= 1:27.1) | emacs-nox (>= 1:27.1); this means that if none of these packages are installed, apt will try the first one
• 2020[22:17:14] <gnat_x> mathu: emacs-nox is the package you want.
• 2021[22:17:35] <n4dir> f8e4: not much in such, but zim wouldn't do it?
• 2022[22:17:46] <mrkramps> hm, then emacs-gtk is still installed
• 2023[22:17:55] *** Quits: netcrash (~charmande@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 2024[22:18:08] <mathu> mrkramps: yup, that did the trick. thanks!
• 2025[22:18:29] <mathu> didn't get quite all of the 230mb but it got like 80 of it
• 2026[22:18:40] *** Quits: nebunez (~user@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 2027[22:19:12] <sney> if you have aptitude installed, you can do 'aptitude why packagename' to find out what recommends/suggests is keeping packagename installed
• 2028[22:19:27] <mrkramps> but then "apt autoremove --purge emacs*" should have worked ;)
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• 2031[22:20:32] <n4dir> f8e4: a friend of mine always speaks of tiddlywiki, but i sure can't make much sense of it
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• 2034[22:21:07] <mathu> i'm used to gentoo where i already know how to describe properties of my system like "no x" globally and where depclean(uninstall(install(package)) seems to actually be a noop
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• 2036[22:21:23] <mathu> mrkramps: oh i didn't see the *, my bad
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• 2038[22:22:43] <mathu> mrkramps: with the star it removed another 90mb. still not everything that was added, but enough that i'm gonna get back to work haha
• 2039[22:22:46] <mathu> thanks for the help all
• 2040[22:22:54] <mrkramps> you're welcome
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• 2042[22:24:39] <greycat> you could always read the logs from dpkg or apt to see what was installed, and then remove those things yourself
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• 2046[22:25:21] <mrkramps> f8e4, if you're workflow depends on latest cherrytree might be worth thinking about an update to testing
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• 2049[22:25:50] <mrkramps> *your
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• 2052[22:26:06] <mathu> greycat: i forgot my tmux config and accidentally closed the window so i couldn't recover the list haha. that said, i don't have to do that in gentoo, i can more or less trust portage to behave how i expect
• 2053[22:26:09] <f8e4> mrkramps, is there a doc?
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• 2058[22:26:43] <mrkramps> f8e4, specify "doc"
• 2059[22:26:52] <n4dir> !stable->testing
• 2060[22:26:55] <n4dir> damn it
• 2061[22:27:11] *** Joins: b1ackandwh1te (~b1ackandw@replaced-ip)
• 2062[22:27:17] <sney> dpkg: buster->bullseye
• 2063[22:27:17] <dpkg> In /etc/apt/sources.list, change "buster" to "bullseye", remove lines like buster-backports, debian-multimedia <dmo>, and other 3rd party repos as they are known to cause issues then do: apt update && apt upgrade && apt full-upgrade. Note that testing is a <moving target> and may be buggy, and read the sid FAQ: replaced-url
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• 2085[22:41:16] <greycat> I said the logs, not your terminal's scrollback buffer.
• 2086[22:41:47] <f8e4> :D
• 2087[22:41:52] *** Joins: asterismo (~santiago@replaced-ip)
• 2088[22:42:07] <f8e4> n4dir: yo zim is nice, ty
• 2089[22:42:35] <n4dir> ah, cool then. Back in the day everyone was all excited about it, but then it vanished again
• 2090[22:42:55] <mrkramps> do you guys think bullseye might ship with xfce 4.16 if they really manage the release before the first freeze?
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• 2097[22:50:17] <trui> meanwhile i'm on lxqt which seems to be needing some love, haha
• 2098[22:50:20] <Unit193> mrkramps: It has to land before transition freeze, it'd be great to get 4.16 in but it's *really* cutting it close.
• 2099[22:50:43] <Unit193> trui: Pretty sure that's basically unmaintained in Debian. :3 (The most active packager went MIA.)
• 2100[22:50:57] <trui> thus my comment ;)
• 2101[22:51:13] <mrkramps> kinda weird to image there might be a debian stable skipping a stable version of xfce :)
• 2102[22:51:50] <trui> i'm just using it because my old laptop has heat issues.
• 2103[22:52:03] *** Parts: OneLegend (OneLegend@replaced-ip) ()
• 2104[22:52:15] <trui> and lxqt runs the coolest so far
• 2105[22:52:27] <mrkramps> trui, better than lxde?
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• 2108[22:53:10] <trui> i'm not sure. i might try lxde if i need to. i just liked the lxqt screenshots better and heard good things
• 2109[22:53:30] *** Quits: m1m0 (~m1m0@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2110[22:53:58] <Unit193> mrkramps: 4.14!
• 2111[22:54:17] <trui> running without x is the coolest of course
• 2112[22:54:45] <sney> or maybe someone should volunteer to update lxqt, NMU at least
• 2113[22:54:55] <mrkramps> Unit193, which would be skipped if shipped with 4.16 ;)
• 2114[22:55:31] <Unit193> Unfortunately, it'll also be old by the time stable releases. :/
• 2115[22:55:58] *** Joins: astrofog (~astrofog@replaced-ip)
• 2116[22:58:49] <jhutchins> How can I see what URIs a CUPS printer share has available? My wife's mac doesn't seem to be compatible with the ipp URI.
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• 2119[23:00:40] <Unit193> mrkramps: I must thank you btw, a long time ago I was looking for alternatives to xombrero and found a wiki you edited, adding lariza.
• 2120[23:00:41] <mason> jhutchins: There's lpinfo -v
• 2121[23:01:29] <jhutchins> On the host that's sharing, right?
• 2122[23:02:03] <mason> jhutchins: Hrm, playing with the -h <remote> ought to DTRT but seems to give back a different list.
• 2123[23:02:20] <dob1> should I use keepassXC instead of keepass2 ? (keepassX seems dead project)
• 2124[23:02:38] <mrkramps> Unit193, did I?! :D
• 2125[23:03:25] <jhutchins> lpinfo -v doesn't even list it, just available protocols.
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• 2128[23:04:54] <mason> It's supposed to list known devices. Any chance this device isn't known to CUPS? Another angle: You can always connect to the web interface of the serving CUPS and see if it sees the printer.
• 2129[23:05:15] *** Quits: asterismo (~santiago@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 2130[23:05:32] <mason> jhutchins: When I do this, one of the things I get is a connection specifier.
• 2131[23:05:42] <jhutchins> mason: It's known to cups, I can print to it from two linux machines, but I can't seem to connect from the mac. (Which is ridiculous, Apple owns cups.)
• 2132[23:05:52] *** Quits: EagleTG (~eagletg@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2133[23:06:14] <mason> jhutchins: Is it wildly new Apply? They're chopping out bits that might end up mattering, although I'd have to dig to get more detail than that.
• 2134[23:06:48] <mason> jhutchins: replaced-url
• 2135[23:06:52] <mason> this speaks to it
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• 2139[23:07:52] <jhutchins> Ok, I see it on the sharing host now, USB connection, no URIs.
• 2140[23:08:03] *** Quits: beelzebuzz (~rasputin@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2141[23:08:12] <jhutchins> mason: Mac's a few years old.
• 2142[23:08:28] *** Joins: bolovanos_ (~bolovanos@replaced-ip)
• 2143[23:08:48] <mason> jhutchins: Oh, hrm. Something else that might matter - printer had timed itself out and powered down here and it didn't show up, but once I powered it up, lpinfo -v shows it.
• 2144[23:08:58] *** Quits: Aavar (~aavar@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2145[23:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1201
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• 2148[23:10:22] <mason> jhutchins: If it doesn't do IPP, you might be able to do a direct socket connection. Taking an example from work docs, lpadmin -p rmp2000 -m foomatic-db-ppds/Ricoh/PS/Ricoh-Aficio_MP_2000_PS.ppd.gz -v socket://10.1.2.3/ -E
• 2149[23:10:24] <HelloShitty> Evening. What means a cap S in file permissions?
• 2150[23:10:45] <mason> jhutchins: bbiab, and if you hit any walls or find anything new I'll check scrollback for it when I return
• 2151[23:11:05] <greycat> you mean in ls -l output? probably something like "setuid but missing x"
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• 2155[23:12:49] <HelloShitty> greycat: yes, in ls -lah output
• 2156[23:13:03] *** Joins: Aavar (~aavar@replaced-ip)
• 2157[23:13:13] <greycat> it's probably documented in texinfo because GNU
• 2158[23:13:15] <HelloShitty> drwx--S---
• 2159[23:13:21] <greycat> setgid without x, then
• 2160[23:13:36] <HelloShitty> ok, so that means no effect, right?
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• 2166[23:17:46] <HelloShitty> Apparently S means the group has no execute permissions, so the setgid won't have the intended effect
• 2167[23:18:12] <mrkramps> definitely not on a directory
• 2168[23:18:12] <greycat> you realize it's a DIRECTORY, right?
• 2169[23:18:24] <greycat> you know what setgid does on directories, right?
• 2170[23:18:46] *** Joins: t3st3r (~t3st3r@replaced-ip)
• 2171[23:18:49] *** Quits: geowiesnot (~user@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 2172[23:19:11] *** Joins: asterismo (~santiago@replaced-ip)
• 2173[23:19:15] <greycat> replaced-url
• 2174[23:19:25] <greycat> Because clearly you're too lazy to test it yourself.
• 2175[23:20:05] <HelloShitty> I was testing here, that's how I got to the conclusion. I didn't know: replaced-url
• 2176[23:21:19] <greycat> For the logs, since the paste will expire in a week: it worked.
• 2177[23:22:09] <greycat> { cmd1; cmd2; } > file
• 2178[23:22:11] <greycat> gah
• 2179[23:23:51] <HelloShitty> Sorry, didn't understand
• 2180[23:24:02] <HelloShitty> your paste will expire. ok, I got it
• 2181[23:24:11] <HelloShitty> what is the command for?
• 2182[23:24:18] <greycat> the other thing was for #bash
• 2183[23:24:43] <greycat> you aren't the only fools I'm trying to answer, and sometime I fuck up and post in the wrong window
• 2184[23:25:17] <HelloShitty> But ok, thank you for the compliment...
• 2185[23:26:03] *** Quits: SkIzZaTo (admin@replaced-ip##) (Quit: - ##replaced-url
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• 2191[23:31:35] *** Parts: ansimita (~ansimita@replaced-ip) ()
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• 2199[23:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1193
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• 2201[23:39:44] <Aavar> Hi. I have just switched from ubuntu to fedora on my laptop to try out the new brtfs offering. I have used timeshift with rsync in the past with great results, but I know timeshift also supports brtfs. Anyway, I get an error regardign "root subvolume (@)". How can I fix this?
• 2202[23:40:14] <greycat> ask #fedora
• 2203[23:40:25] *** Joins: konrados (~konrados@replaced-ip)
• 2204[23:41:07] <ratrace> it's not even debian -> fedora!
• 2205[23:41:15] <dvs> I was about to say that!
• 2206[23:41:22] <Aavar> sorry. Wrong channel :(
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• 2209[23:46:18] *** Quits: Christian75 (~Christian@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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• 2212[23:49:43] <jhutchins> mason: Got it, used the Add printer dialog on the Mac and the ipv4 address of the server.
• 2213[23:49:50] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2214[23:50:20] <jhutchins> Mac error message is useless "can not find printer ipp:"
• 2215[23:50:42] <jhutchins> Verified that ipp is one of the protocols available, and I installed Brother's mac driver.
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• 2217[23:53:21] *** Quits: ddsys (~ddsys@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2218[23:53:22] <buu> Is there a difference in the host part of 0.0.0.0:8080 vs *:63010
• 2219[23:53:25] *** Quits: emucla (~alcume@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2220[23:53:56] <buu> Because I can connect to 8080 from this windows box but not 63010
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• 2222[23:57:04] *** Joins: foul_owl (~foul_owl@replaced-ip)
• 2223[23:59:16] <jhutchins> buu: It depends entirely on what software you're configuring.
• 2224[23:59:26] *** Quits: TimWolla (~timwolla@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bye)
• 2225[23:59:26] *** Quits: max-m (~max-m@replaced-ip) (Quit: Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
• 2226[23:59:38] *** Quits: Christian75 (~Christian@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2227[23:59:44] <jhutchins> buu: Some use *, some use "all", some use 0.0.0.0
• 2228[23:59:52] <buu> jhutchins: but they should be the same right
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