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• 2[00:03:02] <jehorn> Hey guys
• 3[00:03:39] <Boohbah> jehorn: Welcome
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• 7[00:05:11] <Xu95> Hello!
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• 11[00:06:32] <budlight> hi
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• 29[00:23:07] <bacoder> hello
• 30[00:23:46] <bacoder> how can I stop the retarded sound gnome makes when I tab autocomplete in the terminal and there is more than one option available
• 31[00:24:23] *** Joins: jmcgnh (~jmcgnh@replaced-ip)
• 32[00:24:55] <Xu95> turn off system sounds
• 33[00:25:30] <Xu95> i'm rusty with gnome, but I always turn off system sounds because of the terrible sounds
• 34[00:25:59] <jehorn> I'm not a fan of system sounds myself.
• 35[00:26:01] <bacoder> yeah this was clearly made for retards, by retards
• 36[00:27:00] <antto> i turn off gnome and use lxde ;P~
• 37[00:27:03] <Xu95> maybe you can turn off the terminal bell sounds in your terminal emulator
• 38[00:27:18] <Xu95> as an alternative to turning off system sounds
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• 40[00:27:34] <Xu95> lxde rules
• 41[00:27:42] <antto> you know something annoying that you can't turn off?
• 42[00:27:59] <Xu95> @antto, what?
• 43[00:28:01] <jehorn> I've been using LXDE for awhile now. I have an older PowerMac G5 quad so I'm on a LXDE desktop that looks like Mac OS 9. I think LXDE and XFCE are better options than Gnome
• 44[00:28:10] <antto> the dumb wizard when you ctrl+f in windows eggsplorer
• 45[00:28:28] <Xu95> @antto, classic windoze
• 46[00:29:02] <Xu95> @jehorn, I also like MATE
• 47[00:29:25] <bacoder> I used to go with i3 even, but after a war trauma that I can't get my mind around, stopped using it
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• 49[00:29:39] <jehorn> Yes, MATE is awesome
• 50[00:30:27] <bacoder> the war trauma was: at some point I wanted gaps, and I have used some gay github project that claimed it was able to do it, and it destroyed my machine, lol
• 51[00:30:28] <Xu95> @bacoder, I found i3 too DIY for me. When I install Debian, I want most things working
• 52[00:30:52] <Xu95> shady gitHub projects!
• 53[00:31:01] <bacoder> Xu95: absolutely
• 54[00:31:28] <Xu95> @jehorn, I just came back to using MATE. Very nice over here
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• 57[00:32:28] <jehorn> I was a big fan of the older Gnome desktop, so MATE is a good choice. I used to use Trinity with it setup to look like KDE 1. I'm an old GNU/Linux user so I love theming to what I used in the 90s haha
• 58[00:33:11] <bacoder> well I am a big fan of windows xp
• 59[00:33:28] <bacoder> unfortunately not so compatible nowadays :'(
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• 63[00:34:56] <Xu95> i feel that if windows 10 supported the classic theme, many more people(casual users) would love using windows
• 64[00:35:16] <Xu95> the new windows 10 look and feel is not so good
• 65[00:35:52] <bacoder> yeah I agree
• 66[00:36:09] <bacoder> in addition to that it has a bunch of features that are unuseable to me
• 67[00:36:39] <bacoder> i.e. if you drag a folder from one place to another you get 10 different popups asking you if "you really want to do that"?
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• 69[00:37:44] <bacoder> for me it has been linux allways after windows 7, microsoft lost me there
• 70[00:37:58] <bacoder> and I just use VMs for windows stuff I need
• 71[00:38:26] <Xu95> I actually liked the taskbar from vista more than 7 because it was like the XP one
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• 74[00:40:10] <xormor> I actually use Windows quite rarely - I used WinXP Home alongside with Debian and other distros in 2006. Back then I used WinXP for games and some multimedia playback. I never owned a computer with Vista preinstalled. When I got computers with Win7 or Win10 installed, I installed Linux over them.
• 75[00:41:02] <Xu95> @xormor, Nice, how was debian hardware support in 2006
• 76[00:41:10] <bacoder> LOL
• 77[00:41:28] <bacoder> I bet my ass he chose computers for debian
• 78[00:41:46] <Xu95> @xormor, also what DE were you rocking in '06
• 79[00:42:11] <Xu95> was 2006 before they started the non-free repo?
• 80[00:42:17] <xormor> Xu95, hmm...
• 81[00:42:30] <xormor> Debian Sarge 3.1 used old GNOME.
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• 83[00:43:12] <Xu95> nice, Im on Debian MATE now
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• 85[00:43:53] <xormor> bacoder, I had problems with Debian Sarge 3.1 - the X Window System did not configure well with the Finnish locale national keyboard. I asked for some help, and a guy gave me a piece of text to copy paste into a configuration file, I think it was xorg.conf
• 86[00:45:04] <Xu95> did you get help over IRC?
• 87[00:45:19] <bacoder> of course he did
• 88[00:45:45] <Xu95> @bacoder, maybe there was something before IRC that I didnt know about lol
• 89[00:46:11] <somiaj> sarge is quite old, the newer xorg shouldn't need an xorg.conf file, and should autodetect most things. If xorg isn't autodetecting most things, it is best to figure out what and why.
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• 91[00:46:42] <bacoder> 2000's was where IRC was most common
• 92[00:47:02] <xormor> Xu95, yes.
• 93[00:47:03] <bacoder> before that, I don't fucking know, people used BBS boards I think
• 94[00:47:12] <xormor> I used Xandros Linux in 2006.
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• 96[00:47:43] <Xu95> @xormor, was xandros a fork of something?
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• 98[00:48:17] <errorous> Hello. Trying for three hours to install proper nvidia drivers for my laptop, but still can't make it
• 99[00:48:18] <errorous> replaced-url
• 100[00:48:26] <xormor> somiaj, that is true. I have no problems with X Window System now, and no need for any xorg.conf wizardry now. That was 14 years ago, when I had to tool around with the config file.
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• 102[00:48:39] <xormor> Xu95, yes, it was. let me Google Xandros.
• 103[00:48:40] <errorous> When I start nvidia-settings, I get
• 104[00:48:41] <abrotman> errorous: which intructions have you followed?
• 105[00:48:47] <errorous> RROR: NVIDIA driver is not loadedERROR: Unable to load info from any available system
• 106[00:49:02] <abrotman> instructions even
• 107[00:49:08] <errorous> abrotman replaced-url
• 108[00:49:40] <errorous> abrotman first I did nvidia-detect it said something like yeah you have nvidia, go ahead and install nvidia-drivers
• 109[00:49:47] <errorous> and I did, but that didn't work
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• 112[00:50:12] <errorous> so I updated my kernels from backports, then installed nvidia-drivers from backports, still the same
• 113[00:50:19] <xormor> Xu95, replaced-url
• 114[00:50:28] <abrotman> that was going to be my next recommendation
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• 116[00:50:52] <abrotman> but you have a bumblebee card or whatever that's called?
• 117[00:50:57] <bacoder> LOL, will this nvidia stuff ever be completely resolved
• 118[00:51:00] <errorous> abrotman huh?
• 119[00:51:09] <Xu95> @xormor, debian based very nice
• 120[00:51:10] <abrotman> dpkg: tell errorous about optimus
• 121[00:51:15] <errorous> I've lenovo ideapad 330 fwiw
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• 125[00:51:25] <abrotman> bacoder: yes, when people stop buying crap hardware
• 126[00:52:04] <bacoder> ahp! I have a fancy 3000€+ laptop with nvidia on it
• 127[00:52:08] <bacoder> dont judge
• 128[00:52:11] <Xu95> I use a GTX970 and all I have to do is use the non-free image and apt install nvidia-driver
• 129[00:52:15] <Xu95> works every time
• 130[00:53:22] <Xu95> Ive never had display issues on that pc, but i guess the GTX970 is old enough to work properly
• 131[00:53:22] <bacoder> I know I can use the proper driver (done it once) but honestly right now I don't feel like doing it
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• 134[00:53:43] <bacoder> I have here GTX980M
• 135[00:54:01] <bacoder> so I stick with neaveau
• 136[00:54:08] <Xu95> @bacoder, nice, must be a beefy laptop
• 137[00:54:15] <adikt> i hate how nvidia updates their drivers and they say compatible with my card but they are not
• 138[00:54:19] <adikt> still have to use legacy drivers
• 139[00:54:40] <adikt> my card is older than yours but it still says supported in their patch notes :/
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• 141[00:55:12] <Xu95> @adikt, legacy drivers for Windows?
• 142[00:55:17] <xormor> Xu95, I have this now, since the Elementary OS borked (I used plain vanilla Debian stable until I borked it with my own stupidity - was tooling around with the kernel compile from source upgrades): replaced-url
• 143[00:55:27] <errorous> abrotman so I install bumblebee and that's it?
• 144[00:55:38] <adikt> that's another story entirely xormor .. i can't get their drivers to work at all in windows
• 145[00:55:44] <adikt> i said fuck it and that's why i'm here
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• 148[00:56:38] <Xu95> @xormor, Ive never used MX Linux, but ive use Debian XFCE
• 149[00:57:21] <Xu95> I tried elementaryOS, but I would use Ubuntu instead
• 150[00:58:21] <xormor> adikt, you need an old kernel.
• 151[00:58:32] <Xu95> what is the benefit of using MX Linux over Debian with XFCE?
• 152[00:59:08] <xormor> adikt, use nouveau with the old kernel. the newest kernel upgrades will bork the nvidia drivers - since the drivers are in the kernel - because the kernel is "monolithic" (meaning the drivers are inside the kernel).
• 153[00:59:20] <joepublic> would make the mx linux folks happy, I guess.
• 154[00:59:54] <xormor> Xu95, I think MX Linux has some weird programs. I guess one could just use Debian with XFCE. MXLinux has all kinds of weird applications.
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• 158[01:02:35] <bacoder> xormor: although the kernel has a monolithic arquitechture, it has the capacity of loading kernel modules
• 159[01:02:59] <abrotman> erreur404: try it and see?
• 160[01:03:03] <abrotman> bah ...
• 161[01:03:07] <abrotman> erreur404: misfire, sorry
• 162[01:03:32] <xormor> adikt, actually the newest kernel upgrade compile I did borked the video system and the newest Elementary OS upgrade borked the video system. I also use NVidia hardware and I use the older drivers - I think they are "legacy" or "nouveau" or both. If you try to use the newest software (like the drivers) with the old hardware it will not work at all.
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• 164[01:03:44] <bacoder> so most of the functionality is in deed inside a module, but I thought one could still sideload drivers like nvidia ones
• 165[01:03:54] <xormor> bacoder, that is true.
• 166[01:04:59] <bacoder> on windows we see a very minimalistic executive kernel
• 167[01:05:23] <bacoder> ntoskrnl.exe (~4MB)
• 168[01:06:13] <bacoder> on the other hand, you will see external kernel components loaded, many many of them
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• 171[01:06:34] <Xu95> Debian GNU/NT
• 172[01:09:35] <bacoder> making a pun over a *known* mtg card: "What doesn't grow dies, and what dies grows the linux kernel"
• 173[01:09:50] *** Quits: honsa (~honsa@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 174[01:10:42] <adikt> xormor, i noticed the same thing coming over from linux mint.. with the newer kernel it messed up my card.. i was told in #linuxmint that my 730GT was too old to work in linux and to upgrade my system... at which point i decided to roll over to debian
• 175[01:11:02] <adikt> i have always been forced into the nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver with it though
• 176[01:11:33] <adikt> sudo apt nvidia-install to newest dont work even though the drivers say they do work for the 730GT
• 177[01:11:43] <adikt> if i was bacoder i'd try a legacy driver
• 178[01:12:09] <adikt> Client: HexChat 2.14.3 • OS: Debian bullseye/sid • CPU: AMD Phenom(tm) II X6 1090T Processor (1.22GHz) • Memory: Physical: 7.6 GiB Total (4.8 GiB Free) Swap: 7.8 GiB Total (7.8 GiB Free) • Storage: 138.7 GB / 221.2 GB (82.5 GB Free) • VGA: NVIDIA Corporation GK208B [GeForce GT 730] @ Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD] Family 10h Processor Miscellaneous Control • Uptime: 1d 16h 38m 19s
• 179[01:13:03] <xormor> du -cksh vmlinuz* (one of them) --> "4.6M vmlinuz-4.9.212-antix.1-amd64-smp"
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• 181[01:14:21] <adikt> i mean.. nvidia DID just release driver updates too.. so if your installing the newest newest driver and your now running into the same thing i am
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• 183[01:14:26] <bacoder> adikt: I totally believe you
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• 185[01:14:29] <xormor> adikt, how do I see that for my system?
• 186[01:14:30] <adikt> adding ray tracing to drivers to cards that don't support it
• 187[01:14:35] <bacoder> adikt: I know that stuff is messy as fuck
• 188[01:14:38] <somiaj> at some level with older nvidia cards, one needs to use nouveau since nvidia stops supporting the card
• 189[01:14:55] <adikt> xormor, i use hexchat for irc and it's preloaded
• 190[01:14:55] <somiaj> debian has support a little longer than most, but will still loose it because nvidia stops supporting the card.
• 191[01:15:00] <adikt> /sysinfo
• 192[01:15:25] <bacoder> but this is a question for everyone really, can't we make a driver that is semantically equivalent to the wndows driver for nvidia?
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• 194[01:15:29] <xormor> adikt, my HexChat is borked. The /sysinfo does not work.
• 195[01:15:36] <adikt> :/
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• 198[01:18:05] <somiaj> bacoder: no, nvidia refuses to opensource their drivers, and nvidia refuses to support older card's in linux. This is due to nvidia.
• 199[01:18:28] <abrotman> it's not that they won't OSS their drivers .. they won't release specs to help OSS drivers either
• 200[01:18:36] <Xu95> I also blame Nvidia
• 201[01:18:38] <bacoder> somiaj: yeah but we can reverse the drivers, correct? (for windows that is)
• 202[01:18:39] <somiaj> bacoder: the best we can do is use nouveau (which nvidia has put a tiny bit of effort into) but is mostly community reverse engineering the cards. nouveau gives some what decent 2d support for older cards.
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• 205[01:18:54] <somiaj> that is what nouveau is, but we can't use any of the closed blobs
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• 207[01:19:07] <adikt> bacoder, i'd try using the newest legacy driver before nouveau honestly
• 208[01:19:15] <adikt> just see if it works for better performance
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• 210[01:19:27] <adikt> sudo apt remove nvidia*
• 211[01:19:28] <adikt> reboot
• 212[01:19:37] <somiaj> nouveau works kinda, many say it is unstable over time, and I haven't any good reviews of it.
• 213[01:19:39] <adikt> sudo apt install nvidia-legacy-390xx-driver
• 214[01:19:50] <somiaj> Though I think there ar epeople who only do 2d stuff who use it without noticing and any major issues.
• 215[01:20:10] <adikt> replaced-url
• 216[01:20:35] <somiaj> sometimes looking up 'nvidia 390.116' will give nvidia's page and tell you exactly what cards it supports.
• 217[01:20:46] <bacoder> somiaj: I am lacking on gpu knowledge, but what do you exactly mean when you use the word 'blobs'?
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• 219[01:21:15] <somiaj> bacoder: a blob is a binary closed sorced software from nvidia. In this case windows uses nvidia's close sourced blobs
• 220[01:21:22] <adikt> i mean... you should probaby go for 418.74 based on your card
• 221[01:21:33] <somiaj> not a gpu term, but often what is used when we are talking about upstream closed source products, they provide us binary blobs we can't really use
• 222[01:21:46] <xormor> adikt, Graphics: Device-1: NVIDIA GF119 [GeForce GT 620 OEM] vendor: ASUSTeK driver: nouveau v: kernel bus ID: 01:00.0 chip ID: 10de:1049 Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.4 driver: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa resolution: 1366x768~60Hz
• 223[01:21:48] <adikt> 960GT or something
• 224[01:22:10] <bacoder> somiaj: so you actually mean a PE file which is basically the kernelmode driver for windows
• 225[01:22:18] <bacoder> somiaj: that should not be hard to reverse
• 226[01:22:37] <somiaj> well in this case I mean whatever the blob nividia shares with windows
• 227[01:22:52] <somiaj> this is often what windows calls the 'driver' which is downloaded from nvidia
• 228[01:23:01] <Xu95> also reverse engineering is very difficult
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• 230[01:23:15] <joepublic> bacoder, you are cheerfully encouraged to visit #nouveau, but don't say that kind of idiotic stuff once you get there please
• 231[01:23:31] <bacoder> I am basically a professional reverser
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• 233[01:23:44] <Xu95> thats good
• 234[01:23:45] <bacoder> and I have been reversing eversince I was 15
• 235[01:24:24] <Xu95> what tools should I use to learn reversing?
• 236[01:25:01] <bacoder> It very much depends on the platform, but I would suggest first learning asm
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• 238[01:25:21] <bacoder> doing some and written programs, reading the cpu specs etc
• 239[01:25:33] <Xu95> I only know a little X86_64 asm
• 240[01:26:06] <Xu95> do you recomednd C inline asm
• 241[01:26:39] <bacoder> nah, I would actually go with doing some basic nasm programs really
• 242[01:26:41] <bacoder> or masm
• 243[01:26:50] <bacoder> (if you are on windows)
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• 246[01:27:13] <bacoder> the next step is to learn about platform specific ABI
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• 248[01:27:14] <Xu95> im on debian. I have used gnu as
• 249[01:27:19] <Xu95> AT&T syntax
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• 252[01:27:31] <bacoder> you can still use nasm there
• 253[01:27:59] *** Joins: cheet (~cheet@replaced-ip)
• 254[01:28:05] <bacoder> so now you know the ABI and therefore you should pretty much be able to tell how a compiled C program looks like after it has been compiled
• 255[01:28:22] *** Quits: rea77 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 256[01:28:33] <bacoder> so you should do that, compile it and then try to acknowledge weather you were right or wrong
• 257[01:28:42] *** Joins: rea77 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 258[01:28:47] <bacoder> use some analysis tools here
• 259[01:29:01] <bacoder> like objdump, ollydbg, x64dbg, gdb
• 260[01:29:06] <Xu95> sounds good. I have used gdb to see what the C code is doing
• 261[01:29:23] <bacoder> or more hardcore stuff
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• 263[01:29:32] *** Joins: schizo (~schizo@replaced-ip)
• 264[01:29:43] <bacoder> (depends on your wallet or your hability to download pirate software)
• 265[01:29:45] <bacoder> THEN
• 266[01:29:55] <bacoder> you find a project that is interesting for you
• 267[01:30:18] <bacoder> to me it was (because of my background) crypto crackmes
• 268[01:30:24] *** Quits: rea77 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 269[01:30:38] <bacoder> so its crackmes where you have to reverse cryptographic algos and break them
• 270[01:30:43] *** Joins: we6jbo (~we6jbo@replaced-ip)
• 271[01:31:06] <bacoder> replaced-url
• 272[01:31:19] <Xu95> I have only implemented simplified DES lol
• 273[01:31:49] <bacoder> well if you don't like crypto, then I am sure you can think of other things you would enjoy reversing
• 274[01:32:29] <abrotman> dpkg: ot
• 275[01:32:29] <dpkg> #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
• 276[01:32:32] <bacoder> but remember, in the end its all about knowing how things are implemented and realising that the function you are looking at is actually: bubble sort
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• 279[01:33:51] <bacoder> but that is why it is so important to know the abi, because then you immediately know that you are looking at a function that takes 1 parameter for instance and returns an int
• 280[01:34:20] <bacoder> and if the first param is a c-string like and the return value is an int then maybe its just calculating its length
• 281[01:34:41] <bacoder> then you just need to confirm that by looking at the code
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• 283[01:35:17] <Xu95> @bacoder, very informative ty
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• 298[01:44:58] <xormor> how should I improve this site (I use Debian GNU/Linux to make it)? --> replaced-url
• 299[01:45:19] <xormor> is there a Debian package I can use to improve the page?
• 300[01:45:30] <xormor> it is my homepage.
• 301[01:46:04] *** Quits: adikt (~adiktz@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 302[01:47:42] <Xu95> @xormor, how did you make your site? Text editor? IDE?
• 303[01:48:00] *** Quits: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: dionysus69)
• 304[01:48:08] *** Quits: bhoman (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 305[01:48:31] <xormor> Xu95, text editor.
• 306[01:48:37] *** Joins: bhoman (~quassel@replaced-ip)
• 307[01:49:28] <Xu95> how do you want to improve your site?
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• 312[01:51:46] *** Quits: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 313[01:51:54] <LtL> xormor: 'server not found' on that link.
• 314[01:52:27] <Xu95> link worked for me
• 315[01:52:51] *** Quits: Alleria (~AllahuAkb@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
• 316[01:52:53] <LtL> not here
• 317[01:53:23] <renrelkha> doesnt work here either
• 318[01:55:35] <xormor> ipv6
• 319[01:55:46] <xormor> does not work on ipv4 only configurations
• 320[01:55:53] <xormor> it works in ipv6 configured systems
• 321[01:56:02] *** Quits: emOne_ (~emOne@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 322[01:57:07] <ewen_goisot> "not found" for me either (dns_probe)
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• 326[01:57:47] <joepublic> "name not resolved"
• 327[01:58:18] *** Quits: rea77 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 328[01:58:26] <Ge62> aio not steam supports xquartz on mac
• 329[01:58:28] <Ge62> ?
• 330[01:59:04] <tds> xormor: could probably do with https? :)
• 331[01:59:07] *** Quits: daniel_gc (~daniel_gc@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 332[01:59:11] *** Quits: diniwed (~gavron@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 333[01:59:23] <tds> you can do that directly with apache and mod_md, but you'll need to grab a newer apache from buster-backports
• 334[01:59:39] *** Quits: Bliepo (~Bliepo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 335[01:59:46] <xormor> joepublic, try whois
• 336[01:59:56] <xormor> ewen_goisot, try whois
• 337[02:00:02] <joepublic> whois is an especially poor web browser
• 338[02:00:04] <xormor> and nslookup
• 339[02:00:10] <joepublic> as is nslookup
• 340[02:01:01] <xormor> the name is probably not resolved because there is no ipv6 name lookup - but even if the name were resolved and the hardware would not support ipv6, then the ipv6 address will not be resolved for the ipv6 dns address.
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• 348[02:03:07] <ewen_goisot> ping: not found, Chromium: not found (dns), whois: name is available… or are you talking about an other "whois"?
• 349[02:03:12] <xormor> joepublic, you know what an IPv6 address looks like? AA:BB:CC:11::2F for example and an IPv4 address looks like 123.456.789.123
• 350[02:03:34] <joepublic> yes, I know what IP addresses look like.
• 351[02:03:37] <xormor> ewen_goisot, the command line tools whois
• 352[02:04:05] *** Joins: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip)
• 353[02:06:02] <xormor> whois dnainternet.fi ----> "domain.............: dnainternet.fi" etc.
• 354[02:06:15] <ewen_goisot> xormor: I installed `whois` right now, tried with other existing URL: recognized, tried with your URL: "No whois server is known for this kind of object."
• 355[02:06:32] <joepublic> you should improve your site by seeing that it properly resolves.
• 356[02:06:35] *** Quits: Kruppt (~Kruppt@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 357[02:06:47] <tds> joepublic: it does
• 358[02:06:55] <tds> fine here at least
• 359[02:06:56] *** Joins: nolan_ (~nolan_@replaced-ip)
• 360[02:06:58] <tds> tim@phosphorus:~$ dig aaaa +short dyttg9v5zsfnpymj1yyby-4.rev.dnainternet.fi
• 361[02:06:58] <tds> 2001:14bb:420:5ec7:3479:16c0:28f5:2
• 362[02:07:30] <joepublic> "only resolves ipv6" and "properly resolves" are, in practice, mutually exclusive.
• 363[02:07:38] <ewen_goisot> 863402-27 02:05~[1]$ nslookup dyttg9v5zsfnpymj1yyby-4.rev.dnainternet.fi/\~kotisivu/ tells me: ** server can't find dyttg9v5zsfnpymj1yyby-4.rev.dnainternet.fi/~kotisivu/: NXDOMAIN
• 364[02:07:59] <xormor> nslookup dyttg9v5zsfnpymj1yyby-4.rev.dnainternet.fi ---> "Server: 192.168.1.1 Address: 192.168.1.1#53 Non-authoritative answer:Name: dyttg9v5zsfnpymj1yyby-4.rev.dnainternet.fi Address: 2001:14bb:420:5ec7:3479:16c0:28f5:2"
• 365[02:08:52] <xormor> joepublic, I tried using the ipv4 address but my ISP uses either NAT or a firewall to filter out - to effectively block out all attempts to use the http port for the IPv4 address.
• 366[02:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1537
• 367[02:09:23] <ewen_goisot> xormor: isn't 192.168.1.1 a local adress?
• 368[02:09:24] <xormor> joepublic, with my old modem it worked. it was a ZTE. this is Huawei. And my connection was different.
• 369[02:09:30] <xormor> ewen_goisot, yes!
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• 372[02:09:40] <ewen_goisot> xormor: ok
• 373[02:09:42] <joepublic> which is a problem the overcoming of which would improve your site because "only resolves ipv6" and "properly resolves" are, in practice, mutually exclusive.
• 374[02:10:17] *** Joins: n_1-c_k (~n_1-c_k@replaced-ip)
• 375[02:10:37] <Ge62> aio not steam supports xquartz on mac
• 376[02:10:38] <xormor> ewen_goisot, I have the local space with my modem, and then there is the global space to the Internet: LAN versus WAN, intranet versus extranet: actually I think just my ISP counts as the extranet, and everything outside the address spaces of my ISP is counted as the Internet.
• 377[02:10:38] <Ge62> ?
• 378[02:11:00] <joepublic> Ge62, parse error, sorry
• 379[02:11:02] <xormor> joepublic, how do I turn off the NAT for the ipv4?
• 380[02:11:15] <tds> xormor: does your router have a global ip? you should be able to add a "port forwarding" / dnat rule to export ports on ipv4
• 381[02:11:29] <xormor> tds, yes.
• 382[02:11:53] *** Joins: Bliepo (~Bliepo@replaced-ip)
• 383[02:12:25] <xormor> tds, I tried that. it seems my ISP DNA is filtering traffic further away. or maybe I do not know how to configure my router properly to do the port forwarding / NAT hole.
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• 387[02:14:48] *** Quits: Ge62 (bb24400b@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 388[02:14:59] <Xu95> I guess I was the only one who could see the site
• 389[02:15:12] *** Quits: tsrt^ (tsrt@replaced-ip) ()
• 390[02:15:15] <Xu95> white background with blue and red text
• 391[02:15:27] <Xu95> and comics on the site
• 392[02:16:10] *** Joins: wtuhfm^ (wtuhfm@replaced-ip)
• 393[02:17:28] *** Quits: cheet (~cheet@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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• 396[02:20:21] <Xu95> I can see the site in firefox but I am unable to ping it, or use any cli tool on it
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• 399[02:25:36] <xormor> "symmetric NAT"?
• 400[02:26:22] *** Joins: Acid`Slayer (~whatisaus@replaced-ip)
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• 412[02:36:02] <xormor> am I online?
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• 417[02:37:36] <snuff-work> mm.. anyone had experience with debian / pci-passthru?
• 418[02:37:58] <snuff-work> basically my lspci.. says it sees the card.. and the kernel driver would be igb..
• 419[02:37:58] <annadane> you are, xormor
• 420[02:38:14] <snuff-work> but no loading happens
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• 434[02:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1531
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• 449[03:00:00] <xormor> Xu95, can you ping it now?
• 450[03:00:06] *** Quits: cheet (~cheet@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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• 454[03:04:35] <snuff-work> mm.. think i see my issue.. not good.. =/ bitching about Driver can't access device - SMBI bit is set (Intel 82580)
• 455[03:05:14] *** Quits: Tom01_ (~tom@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 456[03:05:40] <Xu95> @xormor, I can ping it by using its ipv6 address
• 457[03:05:59] <xormor> Xu95, good.
• 458[03:06:06] <Xu95> and I had to force ipv6 by using `ping -6`
• 459[03:06:41] <xormor> Xu95, my ipv4 address uses another DNS name.
• 460[03:07:00] <xormor> Xu95, I do not think the address is supposed to resolve to any ipv4 address.
• 461[03:07:08] *** Quits: well_laid_lawn (~Jean-luc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 462[03:07:46] <Xu95> @xormor, in that case, your network is functioning normally
• 463[03:08:37] *** Joins: KevinKeene (~KevinKeen@replaced-ip)
• 464[03:08:48] <xormor> yes. am I able to get a domain name for myself for free?
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• 468[03:10:42] <Xu95> @xormor, Do you have a static public facing IP
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• 471[03:11:09] <xormor> I do not want to just create a domain name that will mess up the Internet, I want a proper domain name, for example laurifriberg.fi, and the host name could be replaced-url
• 472[03:11:25] <xormor> Xu95, my IP changes when I turn off and on the modem/router.
• 473[03:12:39] <xormor> Xu95, the IP is the same as long as the router modem has power and is connected. I remember 20 years ago when the IP was more static, but now it changes always when I turn off and again the electric power from the router-modem.
• 474[03:12:45] *** Quits: graytron (~tero@replaced-ip) (Quit: reboot)
• 475[03:13:08] <Xu95> @xormor, in that case you will need to use a dynamic dns service
• 476[03:14:11] <xormor> Xu95, iki.fi could be a good host.
• 477[03:14:34] *** Quits: cheet (~cheet@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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• 479[03:15:24] <Xu95> @xormor, yes maybe iki.fi can help you
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• 483[03:16:57] <renrelkha> replaced-url
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• 495[03:27:07] <xormor> renrelkha, thanks.
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• 497[03:28:16] <renrelkha> its been a good service for me
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• 559[04:25:31] <xormor> I called the ISP technical support. The man said that the port 80 is not specifically filtered in any special way. What I and others have noticed, is that the ipv4 TCP/UDP port 80 (http port) answers but *very slowly*, *too slowly*.
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• 679[05:51:18] <abckb__> I am on Debian 10 Xfce right now and the top menu bar has suddenly disappeared. How to get it back without doing logout or reboot?
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• 681[05:53:03] <rootkea> abckb__, try xfce4-panel -r
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• 684[05:53:41] <abckb__> rootkea: I just did xfce4-panel &
• 685[05:53:48] <allorder> replaced-url
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• 687[05:54:39] <abckb__> I got it back
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• 689[05:54:53] <abckb__> Thank you rootkea and allorder
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• 692[05:55:14] <rootkea> abckb__, np
• 693[05:55:30] <abckb__> I should have done -r
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• 742[06:20:50] <Gigglebyte> Does anyone know what the Tor Browser is called in the repository?
• 743[06:22:29] <hemimaniac> tor-browser launcher?
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• 746[06:24:03] <Gigglebyte> hemimaniac> Nope, can't find it with that.
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• 749[06:26:44] <hemimaniac> i dunno then, i just grab it from the site and install it that way
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• 752[06:27:17] <rootkea> Gigglebyte, It's in Buster-backports replaced-url
• 753[06:27:58] <Gigglebyte> I am running stable. Can I still download it?
• 754[06:28:12] <rootkea> Just follow the instructions on that page
• 755[06:28:17] <Gigglebyte> Also, I already have backports in my configuration file, but don't know the file name to download.
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• 758[06:30:18] <jm_> that wiki page lists the command to install it
• 759[06:30:20] <Gigglebyte> rootkea> this is my configuration file replaced-url
• 760[06:30:54] <rootkea> Gigglebyte, please read my previous message
• 761[06:31:18] <jm_> you don't have backports in that file, better command to show all apt sources is 'apt-cache policy'
• 762[06:31:20] <rootkea> You don't have backports
• 763[06:32:22] <Gigglebyte> rootkea> I am getting an error message replaced-url
• 764[06:33:03] <rootkea> Gigglebyte, You missed step 1 from that page
• 765[06:33:12] <rootkea> enabling buster-backports
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• 768[06:34:46] <diogenes_> Gigglebyte, you can also grab the official binary which is a portable one, no installation needed.
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• 774[06:37:50] <Gigglebyte> bash is usually not a good place to copy and paste, but wondering if someone can help me achieve this.
• 775[06:40:08] <diogenes_> ctrl+shift+c = copy, same+v = paste
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• 777[06:40:53] <rootkea> selecting text on webpage and then drag that selection to terminal window works too
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• 780[06:43:48] <Gigglebyte> rootkea> Ok, this is my new /etc/apt/sources.list file replaced-url
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• 782[06:44:41] <Gigglebyte> However, it still won't install, and now I am receiving the following error message "E: The value 'buster-backports' is invalid for APT::Default-Release as such a release is not available in the sources
• 783[06:44:41] <Gigglebyte> "
• 784[06:45:34] <Gigglebyte> Isn't this " # available after bullseye release" unnecessary?
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• 786[06:47:26] <hemimaniac> after adding them did you forget to apt update?
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• 789[06:48:47] <Gigglebyte> yup. Its installed now.
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• 792[06:51:34] <Gigglebyte> Thanks again for all the great help.
• 793[06:51:37] <Gigglebyte> exit
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• 811[07:12:00] <swift110> hmm
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• 854[07:43:58] <countdr> Is there a better fsck.vfat that has all the if statements?
• 855[07:44:10] <countdr> I don't want to write my own
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• 877[07:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1519
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• 882[08:02:46] <incal> hello, where can I find this? "meson.build:41:2: ERROR: Dependency "gtk+-3.0" not found, tried pkgconfig and cmake" I'm on Debian Buster. TIA
• 883[08:07:24] <jm_> libgtk-3-dev doesn't help?
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• 897[08:21:55] <incal> yes
• 898[08:21:58] <incal> :)
• 899[08:22:01] <incal> thx
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• 901[08:22:21] <jm_> no problem
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• 905[08:23:01] <Zajt> Hi! I've setup some machines in Azure and after I ssh into one of them, the shell angs after I type 3 letters. Sometimes I can type 2 commands quickly before it hangs, ands ometimes 1 command etc. It worked yesterday to play with it and I haven't changed anything
• 906[08:23:15] <Zajt> Anyone have experienced this problem before when you ssh into a box?
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• 1132[10:28:58] <KatrinValerie> Playing around with different DEs somehow broke GNOME3s appearance settings. Is a good idea to log back into the other DEs and try to reset appearance settings there?
• 1133[10:29:08] <KatrinValerie> Or is there another way to fix this?
• 1134[10:29:37] <KatrinValerie> I have a weird mix of dark and light theme right now, for some reason the window decoration is dark.
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• 1137[10:30:06] <KatrinValerie> Stupid me thought that the design configuration of KDE, Enlightenment and Gnome3 would be seperated
• 1138[10:30:24] <KatrinValerie> But I assume this is mostly an issue with gtk settings
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• 1140[10:30:56] <ratrace> the problem is probably in those areas that are supposed to be "cross-platform" of sorts, eg. gtk theming under qt and vice versa
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• 1148[10:33:22] <jelly> ,v znc
• 1149[10:33:23] <judd> Package: znc on amd64 -- jessie: 1.4-2; jessie-security: 1.4-2+deb8u2; stretch: 1.6.5-1+deb9u2; stretch-security: 1.6.5-1+deb9u2; stretch-backports: 1.7.2-3~bpo9+1; buster: 1.7.2-3; buster-backports: 1.7.5-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 1.7.5-2; sid: 1.7.5-3
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• 1164[10:43:18] <dob1> I create a wrong cron job in /etc/cron.d like 30 3 * * * command and not 30 2 * * * user command, but no mails about cron daemon was sent....
• 1165[10:43:21] <dob1> *created
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• 1169[10:45:27] <ratrace> dob1: sent to whom?
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• 1171[10:46:06] <ratrace> dob1: perhaps mail IS sent (if you have a MUA/MSA there at all), but to the user's mbox?
• 1172[10:46:13] <KatrinValerie> ratrace: any idea how I'd get back to a more default state of settings?
• 1173[10:46:23] <dob1> ratrace, I was expecting a mail with an error, like cron daemon creates when there are errors
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• 1175[10:46:32] <KatrinValerie> the gnome-tweak-tool doesn't seem to do the trick for everything
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• 1178[10:46:59] <ratrace> KatrinValerie: sorry, none whatsoever. I'm avoiding DEs on my computers
• 1179[10:47:35] <jm_> does it send mail if you use wrong entry format via crontab -e?
• 1180[10:47:44] <KatrinValerie> Oh well, I guess it's something that will fix itself with the next clean installation then <.<
• 1181[10:47:46] <dob1> ratrace, the fact is that, from what I see, cron daemon send a mail if there is an error in the execution of the cron job but not if it can't execute the job....
• 1182[10:47:49] <ratrace> dob1: the cronjob would probably not even trigger. mail is sent for cronjob stdout/stderr, but the job isn't even started.
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• 1186[10:49:25] <dob1> jm_, it's different, when you edit it with crontab -e it gives you a warning about errors when you exit the editor
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• 1188[10:50:43] <jm_> dob1: right, so that check can't be done for /etc/crontab, at the same time, similar to if you use illegal name in /etc/cron.* dirs
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• 1191[10:52:34] <dob1> jm_, but it's the same, the cron daemon read the file with the cron job and if it find it wrong it can give a warning, but it doesn't (from what I see)
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• 1193[10:53:00] <dob1> you have to check the logs....ok
• 1194[10:53:03] <jm_> dob1: sure, it could do many other things too :)
• 1195[10:53:52] <KatrinValerie> who am I kidding I have not made a clean installation since squeeze
• 1196[10:54:09] <KatrinValerie> I will just live with this till the end of my days
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• 1272[11:52:01] <voidWalker3301> Hey
• 1273[11:52:42] <voidWalker3301> Do Linux OSes need to be defragged?
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• 1276[11:54:28] <Johann> voidWalker3301:usually there is no reason to worry about that
• 1277[11:55:14] <JPT> Most modern filesystems take care of such things automatically. Depending on the filesystems you use, you can look up tools that come with them. But yes, usually there's nothing to worry about.
• 1278[11:55:16] <voidWalker3301> Okay. Thanks!
• 1279[11:55:24] <voidWalker3301> I have to run now but thanks so much.
• 1280[11:55:28] <voidWalker3301> o/
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• 1296[12:04:26] <g0zzy> The Mate desktop seems to be behaving quite oddly. I get a Caja window on startup (no sign of it being wanted in any of the usual places, session etc.) and when i kill the process over ssh, it gets magically restarted. What gives?
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• 1329[12:26:39] <ratrace> g0zzy: are you sure you checked all of the "usual places"?
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• 1341[12:34:00] <nyov> < KatrinValerie> who am I kidding I have not made a clean installation since squeeze I will just live with this till the end of my days
• 1342[12:34:07] <nyov> my problems exactly, hahahaha
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• 1344[12:35:28] <jm_> my brother's system started with bo :)
• 1345[12:36:30] <nyov> wow. many skeletons in the filesystem closet, probably :)
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• 1347[12:37:19] <nyov> well, I did a reinstall when switching to amd64, I think
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• 1357[12:41:21] <nyov> most recently I switched from fglrx to radeon on the workstation, but it's painful and I might have to switch back with the next reboot. damn sad, no bullseye for me
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• 1366[12:43:12] <annadane> you normally run testing?
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• 1368[12:44:40] <nyov> no, but I'm envisioning it becoming stable one day :) and before I feel like upgrading my gfx card
• 1369[12:44:50] <nyov> probably
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• 1378[12:45:40] <annadane> they should intentionally make debian 13 riddled with bugs
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• 1380[12:45:45] <annadane> because 13 = unlucky number
• 1381[12:45:49] <annadane> :P
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• 1384[12:47:42] <ratrace> depends on the culture :)
• 1385[12:47:43] <nyov> so it's a self-fulfilling prophecy? you say it's unlucky, so you work hard to make it unlucky? haha
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• 1388[12:48:57] <annadane> that was a thing with apollo 13, which had an explosion on its way to the moon, so of course it becomes a "omg, apollo 13 is the one that blows up" but according to one of the astronauts he said his italian friends said 13 was a lucky number
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• 1390[12:50:45] <ratrace> What about Apollo 1. three deaths. Apollo 13 deaths = 0.
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• 1398[12:54:14] <ratrace> so I guess.... 13 IS a lucky number. They were lucky to get out of it unscathed.
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• 1405[12:57:43] <nyov> or maybe it depends on your character perks
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• 1413[13:00:14] <nyov> sometimes it's sad to see so many old open bugs in debian bts :(
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• 1415[13:02:17] <nyov> do we need a better triage system there, better follow-ups or something?
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• 1417[13:03:30] <ratrace> better bts, that would periodically nag asignees to check the status.
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• 1428[13:05:09] <nyov> I considered working on the bts some, but a) the single main dev is hardly around and b) it's perl, which I'm sadly allergic to
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• 1430[13:05:33] <EdePopede> with a) being a big ouch
• 1431[13:05:55] <ratrace> upgrade to bugzilla! I've been saying that for years now.
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• 1434[13:06:16] <EdePopede> !spof
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• 1436[13:06:18] <nyov> ugh. that's a downgrade :p
• 1437[13:06:18] <dpkg> spof is probably Single Point Of Failure
• 1438[13:06:18] <ratrace> or...... gah...... puke..... gitlab.
• 1439[13:06:53] <nyov> gitlab 'issues' is totally wrong for that kind of use-case IMHO
• 1440[13:06:55] <ratrace> nyov: not at all. still maintained and very, very functional. also has the said nagging mechanism.
• 1441[13:07:05] <ratrace> (bugzilla)
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• 1443[13:07:26] <EdePopede> sould be something modern, the 90s are over... json+couchdb or similar. purely js driven frontend ofc
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• 1445[13:07:57] <ratrace> I've worked with a number of trackers over the past 20 years, both as a reporter and as maintainer or triager. bugzilla is by far the best I've seen so far.
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• 1448[13:08:17] <ratrace> people tend to hate it because "herp derp perlp", but.... functionally it's awesome.
• 1449[13:08:40] <Ticho> I agree
• 1450[13:08:51] <ratrace> EdePopede: replaced-url
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• 1452[13:09:06] <EdePopede> ratrace :)
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• 1455[13:09:21] <Ticho> people dislike it because they have to register yet another account (as compared to e.g. Microsoft Github, where everybody and their grandma already have an account)
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• 1457[13:10:11] <ratrace> Ticho: the best thing, it has API and iirc there be plugins for email reporting so.... the debian luddites who still prefer email reporting can be satisfied.
• 1458[13:10:12] <EdePopede> Ticho, an extra accound for each project?
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• 1460[13:11:29] <Ticho> EdePopede: essentially, yes, since FOSS projects usually each have their own self-hosted bugzilla
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• 1463[13:12:17] <EdePopede> is one of the many nice things on irc, one account per network, not per channel. and the only good thing about fecesbook, i've posted a lot of comments only to posts related to newspaper articles without the need to make a dozen accounts for all the papers.
• 1464[13:12:26] *** Quits: jorijn (~jorijn@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 1465[13:12:49] <ratrace> I have a few dozen of myname+<project>@mydomain.com addrs for that. no maintenance overhead really. cookies whitelisted for those domains, passwordmanager managed passwords (lol).
• 1466[13:12:50] <EdePopede> wasn't OAuth meant to finish this all? it's like germany 300 years ago :/
• 1467[13:13:06] <Ticho> yes, it's an extra hurdle if all you want is report one simple bug - I can understand that
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• 1469[13:13:27] <annadane> it's still weird to think microsoft owns github
• 1470[13:13:33] <annadane> i get why, but...
• 1471[13:13:45] *** Quits: Akuw (~Akuw@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 1472[13:13:49] <Ticho> to me it's weird that people forget about it
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• 1474[13:13:57] <EdePopede> if you can't kill it, buy it.
• 1475[13:13:57] *** Joins: rootmonk_ (~rootmonk@replaced-ip)
• 1476[13:13:57] <Ticho> especially linux people
• 1477[13:14:04] *** Joins: mijndert (~mijndert@replaced-ip)
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• 1479[13:14:09] <ratrace> it's like a convicted abuser becoming the owner of a safe house.... :)
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• 1482[13:14:47] <joepublic> we used to have a term for Microsoft buying things, whose initials were EEE
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• 1485[13:15:45] <ratrace> like RH did to CoreOS? :)
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• 1488[13:16:27] <ratrace> textboox triple E. embraced it, extended to fedora core, extinguished it.
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• 1490[13:16:39] <EdePopede> EXTERMINATE!
• 1491[13:16:48] <joepublic> I like that better somehow
• 1492[13:16:56] <EdePopede> to give it all that special bit
• 1493[13:17:05] <annadane> "but the new microsoft is better" ok... but then look at windows 10
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• 1497[13:17:25] <EdePopede> better in doing what exactly?
• 1498[13:17:34] <joepublic> if the FSF gets back a used hard drive full of Win 7 source code under the GPL, then I'd believe it
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• 1500[13:17:36] <Ticho> in EEE :)
• 1501[13:17:43] *** Quits: rootmonk (~rootmonk@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 1502[13:17:58] <ratrace> FOSS can't be extinguished. the licenses prevent it. QED MariaDB, OpenJDK, OpenZFS....
• 1503[13:18:01] <EdePopede> joepublic: they will. in 2050 or so.
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• 1505[13:18:06] <joepublic> lol
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• 1508[13:19:56] <EdePopede> linux once was called what exactly? disease, epidemy? well, slap on it, redmond! it forks and spreads even faster.
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• 1510[13:20:36] <joepublic> "Barbara Streisand"
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• 1514[13:21:30] <EdePopede> the question unsure people have to asks themselves: why is $company so aggressive against $project? what do they have to fear?
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• 1519[13:22:30] <joepublic> ratrace, on the other hand, microsoft java virtual machine
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• 1555[13:36:44] <KatrinValerie> EdePopede: Balmer called it a cancer iirc
• 1556[13:37:09] <joepublic> yeah I think he also threw a chair at it
• 1557[13:37:10] <EdePopede> KatrinValerie: ah right. thanks. couldn't even remember his name.
• 1558[13:37:38] <KatrinValerie> EdePopede: He's the "developers! developers!" guy
• 1559[13:37:39] *** Quits: Alleria (~AllahuAkb@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
• 1560[13:37:48] <KatrinValerie> Steve Balmer
• 1561[13:37:56] <joepublic> *Ballmer
• 1562[13:38:01] <KatrinValerie> really?
• 1563[13:38:04] * dvs sees a lot of Clippers fans chase after EdePopede
• 1564[13:38:09] <EdePopede> KatrinValerie: he's the ridiculous guy since i've seen him jumping around on stage like jack in the box
• 1565[13:38:14] <joepublic> really.
• 1566[13:38:20] <MicroJoe> replaced-url
• 1567[13:38:36] <joepublic> "Steven Anthony Ballmer is an American businessman and investor who was the chief executive officer of Microsoft from January 13, 2000, to February 4, 2014, and is the current owner of the Los Angeles Clippers of the National Basketball Association."
• 1568[13:38:45] <MicroJoe> inb4 144p music video…
• 1569[13:38:49] <KatrinValerie> MicroJoe: still golden
• 1570[13:39:06] <MicroJoe> the remix is really good
• 1571[13:39:11] <KatrinValerie> These days their approach to linux is a bit different
• 1572[13:39:26] <KatrinValerie> I wonder if they'll eventually give up on the nt kernel
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• 1574[13:39:34] <joepublic> the boy got rhythm
• 1575[13:39:44] <KatrinValerie> in favour of running windows in a hypervisor on a real kernel
• 1576[13:39:59] <MicroJoe> "Microsoft buys Wine"
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• 1579[13:40:14] <KatrinValerie> Yeah, kinda like that
• 1580[13:40:28] <KatrinValerie> What are the folks called that did cedega these days?
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• 1582[13:40:40] <joepublic> codeweavers?
• 1583[13:40:52] <KatrinValerie> Could be, that's what MS would have to buy lol
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• 1593[13:47:11] <Haohmaru> mm, crapdows10
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• 1597[13:49:18] <f476> hi, how instert 3 new empty line in start file, use sed
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• 1601[13:50:52] <KatrinValerie> why not awk?
• 1602[13:51:22] <f476> ok, with awk
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• 1604[13:51:48] <ratrace> Haohmaru: coal for your windows hating furnace: replaced-url
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• 1608[13:53:06] <KatrinValerie> f476: awk 'BEGIN {printf "\n\n\n";} 1'
• 1609[13:53:13] *** Quits: TvL2386 (~tom@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 1610[13:53:19] <Haohmaru> so like, you log into M$, to use yer comput0r?
• 1611[13:53:28] <f476> KatrinValerie: big thx
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• 1613[13:53:46] <KatrinValerie> That outputs to stdout though
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• 1615[13:54:35] <EdePopede> ratrace: a reason why i didn't even bother creating a pocket account. i don't even want to get used to store my data on OPCs.
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• 1619[13:54:59] <Haohmaru> bruh, every time i learn/hear something new about crapdows10 - it's bad
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• 1622[13:55:17] <Haohmaru> M$ are so consistent ;P~
• 1623[13:55:27] <MicroJoe> last thing I heard was adverts in the start menu
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• 1625[13:55:53] <Haohmaru> ads everywhere.. i can't stand this viber thing
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• 1627[13:56:32] <Haohmaru> advertises some casino/fakenews/scam currently
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• 1631[13:58:06] <ratrace> EdePopede: oh yeah. or mozilla sync of any kind.
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• 1649[14:03:52] <KatrinValerie> sed '1i\
• 1650[14:03:52] <KatrinValerie> \
• 1651[14:03:52] <KatrinValerie> \
• 1652[14:03:54] <KatrinValerie> '
• 1653[14:04:06] <KatrinValerie> sorry for the spam, f476 that's the sed version
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• 1662[14:08:59] <erle-> now I installed locales-all and setting language in Gnome still has no effect (of course I rebootet and relogin)
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• 1667[14:10:59] <joepublic> sounds like it should be so easy to just set german and be done
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• 1672[14:15:08] <erle-> now I think it is a flatpak issue
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• 1675[14:16:19] <joepublic> I missed flatpak being involved. I am not a fan of flatpak because of its imperfect integration issues.
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• 1680[14:19:08] <nyov> the level or weird containerization continues to grow
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• 1698[14:25:40] <erle-> removing flatpak did not change anything
• 1699[14:25:44] <EdePopede> nyov: software to complex? modularize it! too much administration? containers! docker! too much administration? kubernetes! too much administration? ansible! too much administration? chef! salt!
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• 1714[14:35:23] <ihateAdmins> hey guys is it possible to upgrade from strech to buster over ssh without killing ssh?..
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• 1723[14:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1554
• 1724[14:39:21] <ayekat> AFAIK open ssh sessions are not closed even if the ssh server stops/restarts
• 1725[14:39:38] <ayekat> (or at least restarts)
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• 1738[14:42:19] <n_1-c_k> ihateAdmins, I managed to achieve that feat last summer so in principle yes.
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• 1742[14:45:04] <joepublic> I have upgraded over ssh before.
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• 1747[14:47:22] <nyov> definitely possible
• 1748[14:47:36] <duude__> Hello people. :) Been using Debian for about a year now and I'm in love with it. I did the LFS project a bit and I think I know decently enough how stuff runs on low level. I wanted to start contributing to Debian now. Where do I start?
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• 1750[14:48:22] <ihateAdmins> thats good to know. well apt update worked but apt upgrade gives me strange nvidia dependencies errors im fixing it i really hope i wont kill my system since nobody can restart it^^
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• 1756[14:50:47] <g0zzy> ratrace: Pretty much so. I even emptied entire usual suspect directories and rebooted
• 1757[14:51:11] <joepublic> ihateAdmins, you read and are following the release notes?
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• 1762[14:53:07] <ihateAdmins> uhmm no did i miss something important?^^..
• 1763[14:53:12] <jelly> yes
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• 1766[14:53:51] <hoppfull> I need to install the z3 smt solver into my docker container. It's based on debian:stretch. apt-get install z3 will install version 4.4.1 which is over four years old. I want a newer version 4.8.7 which is in "bullseye" and "sid". I tried to install z3 with apt-get -t unstable install z3 but I got a message "The value 'unstable' is invalid for
• 1767[14:53:51] <hoppfull> APT::Default-Release as such a release is not available in the sources". Is there some easy way to fix this or do I have to build z3 from source?
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• 1769[14:54:40] <joepublic> hoppfull, not a good practice to install packages from multiple releases; first seek a backport
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• 1771[14:55:08] <hoppfull> is there a backport for unstable?
• 1772[14:55:23] <hoppfull> joepublic: Even if it is bad practice, how would I do it?
• 1773[14:55:43] <ksk> hoppfull: you do _not_ run stretch and install stuff from unstable..
• 1774[14:55:56] <hoppfull> ksk: cool, how though?
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• 1776[14:56:03] <joepublic> hoppfull, some people do the bad idea of adding the unstable sources at lower prioroty.
• 1777[14:56:04] <ihateAdmins> jelly what so?
• 1778[14:56:33] <joepublic> ihateAdmins, there is a section on removing third-party sources, as your "nvidia" stuff probably is
• 1779[14:56:33] <jelly> dpkg, stretch->buster
• 1780[14:56:34] <dpkg> Read (at least) the upgrading chapter of the <release notes> replaced-url
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• 1782[14:56:43] <ksk> hoppfull: since its not in debian stable (judging from your statement): not.
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• 1784[14:57:04] <hoppfull> ksk: ah so it's impossible
• 1785[14:57:15] <joepublic> hoppfull, others download the .deb file of the unstable package and manually install it, also a bad idea
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• 1787[14:57:29] <ihateAdmins> oops well i did fix the dependecy error and currently upgrading i hope it will work afterwards anyway xD
• 1788[14:57:33] <ksk> hoppfull: apart from using third party repositories, or getting the software directly from the vendor, yes.
• 1789[14:57:37] <jelly> ,v z3
• 1790[14:57:38] <judd> Package: z3 on amd64 -- stretch: 4.4.1-1~deb9u1; buster: 4.4.1-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 4.8.7-4; sid: 4.8.7-4
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• 1792[14:57:46] <ihateAdmins> i did everything else mentioned
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• 1794[14:58:18] <jelly> hoppfull: use a docker image for bullseye or unstable, or build from source (preferably using backport methodology)
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• 1798[14:58:43] <jelly> do not mix binary packages from newer releases.
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• 1849[15:17:19] <jomofcw> Hello !
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• 1852[15:17:55] <jomofcw> Is there an easy way to "translate" the "rule mask" of a file/firectory into a numeric CHMOD, please ? aka what is the numerci value of "-rw-r--r--" for example.
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• 1855[15:18:39] <rootkea> jomofcw, I'm sorry but can't help myself thinking this as a homework problem!
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• 1857[15:20:27] <H4ndy> it's just adding 3 digits, not sure what is complicated there
• 1858[15:20:40] <joepublic> jomofcw, looks like 644
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• 1864[15:21:00] <H4ndy> r=2, w=4, x=1
• 1865[15:21:04] <joepublic> r=4 w=2 x=1
• 1866[15:21:15] <joepublic> well, both of us can't be right
• 1867[15:21:22] <JPT> replaced-url
• 1868[15:21:26] <JPT> :)
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• 1870[15:23:23] <jomofcw> OK, thanks ^^.
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• 1887[15:33:27] <H4ndy> joepublic: I am more right because I was first :3
• 1888[15:34:21] <joepublic> not sure math works that way lol
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• 1891[15:35:46] <rootkea> jomofcw, pardon my ignorance but I thought you were looking for a shell solution. I could only do $ read mode; echo $mode | tr '\-rw' '011'
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• 1893[15:36:02] <rootkea> Not sure how to convert binary to decimal
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• 1895[15:36:19] <joepublic> decimal?
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• 1897[15:36:35] <rootkea> joepublic, like 733
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• 1899[15:36:41] <joepublic> that's octal
• 1900[15:36:58] <rootkea> Oh my!
• 1901[15:37:10] <rootkea> Thanks. I was wrong.
• 1902[15:37:16] <joepublic> :)
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• 1909[15:44:00] <rootkea> So does `apt -t buster-backports install "package"` install package as well as the dependencies from backports or just the package from backports and dependencies from stable (if possible)?
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• 1911[15:44:54] <rootkea> E.g. in Ubuntu apt-get install amarok/trusty-backports install the package from Backports, resolve its dependencies from Main
• 1912[15:45:22] <rootkea> While apt-get install -t trusty-backports amarok installs both from backports
• 1913[15:45:43] <rootkea> ref: replaced-url
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• 1916[15:46:27] <rootkea> How do I achieve " apt-get install amarok/trusty-backports install the package from Backports, resolve its dependencies from Main" in Debian? Or is that the default for -t
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• 1929[15:53:15] <dashs> /msg NickServ identify angus03
• 1930[15:53:28] <Haohmaru> "oops"
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• 1934[15:54:41] <rootkea> 2003 born? Or is that a day of the month.. O.o
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• 1936[15:55:12] <JPT> It's probably the third password
• 1937[15:55:23] <Haohmaru> difficult password v03
• 1938[15:55:34] <Haohmaru> improved unpredictability
• 1939[15:56:13] <JPT> I recall encountering a passwordscheme that basically went like this: <three letter abreviation of organization name><4 digit representation of current year>
• 1940[15:56:15] <TimMc> I love the panic quit.
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• 1951[16:05:40] <Akuw_> any iso to start and check a bad hard disk
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• 1958[16:08:11] <banisterfiend> hi there - i can't seem to install wireguard on debian 10 (buster) i get errors about "no valid openPGP keys"
• 1959[16:08:13] <banisterfiend> anyone know?
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• 1961[16:08:30] <tfm> I'm having trouble with preseeding (on Ubuntu admittedly but the ideas are the same), specifically partitioning with LVM. No matter what I do, the installer fails at the partitioning step with "No root file system". It works fine if I don't use LVM, but I would like to use LVM for snapshots. I'm at the end of my tether with this tbh, it should work but it doesn't. My preseed file is here:
• 1962[16:08:36] <tfm> replaced-url
• 1963[16:08:56] <tfm> Been banging my head against this wall for a few hours now. :P
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• 1967[16:10:29] <joepublic> it's a respect issue.
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• 1986[16:18:53] <jhutchins_wk> rootkea: If dependencies are available in main they will install from main, if updated dependencies are require they will install from backports.
• 1987[16:19:01] <ximpr> Hi. I am having unexpected trouble with a simple task: printing two slides from a pdf file to one A4 page. Using evince, the file displays properly, but in prints (on printer or when I print to PDF) only logos and link underlining but no text.
• 1988[16:19:11] <TimMc> Akuw_: I usually just use the Debian Live USB. You're looking for something completely automated?
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• 1991[16:19:45] <Akuw_> TimMc: no, just need to know if disk is death
• 1992[16:20:12] <ximpr> Using okular or qpdfview I can print out the text, but face other issues regarding combining certain slides on a single page. So as for the X Y problem, I would like to solve my issues with evince.
• 1993[16:20:13] <Akuw_> actually i see "/dev/sdb1" in recue mode
• 1994[16:20:59] <ximpr> Any idea why normal visible text would not print, not even to a pdf?
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• 1996[16:21:27] <Akuw_> humm, that is USB stick
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• 1998[16:22:25] <TimMc> Akuw_: You don't see /dev/sda or /dev/nvme0?
• 1999[16:22:42] <Akuw_> i am looking in /dev/ and there is sda
• 2000[16:22:42] <TimMc> (The latter being what I see for an SSD.)
• 2001[16:23:17] <greycat> (there are several different types of SSD; only some show up as nvme)
• 2002[16:23:22] <TimMc> OK, yeah, you should be able to run badblocks or e2fsck or whatever you need on the partitions.
• 2003[16:23:41] <TimMc> greycat: Depends on the connector type, perhaps?
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• 2005[16:23:53] <greycat> !ssd
• 2006[16:23:53] <dpkg> Solid-State Drives are basically nonvolatile RAM chips used for long term storage. There are at least 3 types: SATA (no problem), NVMe (no problem since Linux 3.3), and eMMC (not yet supported). See also <ssd limit>
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• 2009[16:24:31] <TimMc> I was startled to open up this laptop and see what looked like a RAM chip was actually my "hard drive". :-)
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• 2020[16:28:50] <n_1-c_k> 'NVMe (no problem since Linux 3.3)', is that really right? There's ]replaced-url
• 2021[16:29:03] <n_1-c_k> oh, s/]//
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• 2046[16:40:05] <rootkea> jhutchins_wk, what if I want to install dependcies and package both from backports? Ubuntu uses -t for that. What about Debian?
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• 2052[16:42:44] <jhutchins_wk> rootkea: If backported dependencies are available, they will install automatically.
• 2053[16:42:55] <ihateAdmins> nice the upgrade to buster is done :)
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• 2057[16:45:16] <ihateAdmins> nice it even fixed my tool issue^^
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• 2059[16:46:29] <rootkea> jhutchins_wk, what if the dependencies are in backports and stable too?
• 2060[16:46:46] <rootkea> and using apt -t syntax in Debian
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• 2067[16:48:30] <yasser> hi
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• 2074[16:49:54] <jelly> rootkea: then you use aptitude and it will figure out the least amount of backports to install. apt and apt-get don't know how to do that, if you tell them -t blah-backports they're going to install everything that can be installed from backports, from backports
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• 2100[17:05:11] <rootkea> jelly, Ah so that means -t installs the package in question (or command) and its dependencies both from backports in Debian. Also Debian doesn't have a way to install only package from backports and the dependecies from stable like Ubuntu (e.g. apt-get install amarok/trusty-backports). Is that correct?
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• 2114[17:07:38] <greycat> You can't put UTF-8 characters in the xterm title (-T)?!
• 2115[17:07:52] <greycat> Or maybe that's window manager specific...
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• 2125[17:10:39] <jelly> rootkea: the syntax apt-get install amarok/trusty-backports works as well.
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• 2129[17:11:49] <rootkea> jelly, In Ubuntu it "install the package from Backports, resolve its dependencies from Main". Does that how it works in Debian too? ref: replaced-url
• 2130[17:11:54] <jelly> rootkea: man apt-get SYNOPSIS says: apt-get … install pkg [{=pkg_version_number | /target_release}] ...
• 2131[17:13:09] <jelly> rootkea: pretty much. If there's a dependency missing in your default release, apt-get install foo/release-backports will fail.
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• 2150[17:20:11] <rootkea> jelly, Thanks! So it works the same for Debian too. I'll use apt-get install foo/release-backports format only to install backports as it only installs the package foo from backports but deps from stable main
• 2151[17:20:30] <jelly> that often does not work
• 2152[17:21:17] <rootkea> if it fails then -t :)
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• 2155[17:22:12] <jelly> but when it works it's the safest thing to do, yeah. Using aptitude install foo/release-backports is better than using -t if your goal is to minimize the number of installed backports package versions.
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• 2157[17:22:28] <dob1> what is a good utility to read mbox files?
• 2158[17:22:33] <greycat> mutt
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• 2165[17:23:04] <ribula> neomutt
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• 2167[17:23:11] <jelly> same difference
• 2168[17:23:19] <dob1> ok thanks all :)
• 2169[17:23:47] <jelly> in fact, package "mutt" actually shipped NeoMutt in debian until very recently
• 2170[17:23:59] <greycat> "for a brief time" would be accurate
• 2171[17:24:09] <greycat> it was just one or two releases, IIRC
• 2172[17:24:19] <jelly> so 2-4 years
• 2173[17:24:25] <greycat> brief, as I said ;-)
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• 2175[17:24:50] <jelly> which is about as long as the people maintaining this set of patches called it "NeoMutt"
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• 2177[17:25:37] <jelly> before that debian also shipped mutt with the same bunch of patches, but they weren't called that yet
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• 2181[17:28:54] <dob1> how does the update of backports package work? in testing there is a version of a package can I suppose this version will be available soon on backports? (the package is already on backports but not at the testing version)
• 2182[17:29:23] <greycat> Backports are made whenever they are made. They're all special snowflakes.
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• 2184[17:30:00] <jelly> dob1: there are no rules, some maintainers update backports relatively regularly, many other are just one-off builds that seem to be forgotten afterwards
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• 2188[17:30:25] <dob1> not good :)
• 2189[17:30:29] <jelly> eg. kernel backports seem to happen with some regularity
• 2190[17:31:21] <dob1> but the maintainers of the testing one is the same of the backports one?
• 2191[17:31:31] <greycat> not necessarily
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• 2222[17:42:09] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Is there a way in-repo to install deepin?
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• 2226[17:42:29] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> I see a bunch of its packages, but there's no DE package.
• 2227[17:43:10] <greycat> I thought deepin was a distribution, not a package. Is it both?
• 2228[17:43:34] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> It's both a debian-based distribution and a desktop environment.
• 2229[17:43:53] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> It's available in the Manjaro installer as a DE choice, for example.
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• 2232[17:44:17] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> I'm intent on setting up a "user-friendly" system for a Linux-newbie and Manjaro is perhaps a bit too much for them.
• 2233[17:44:28] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> (Nevermind just plain Arch)
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• 2282[18:03:02] <geri> hi does that work on debian? $(dirname $(realpath $0))
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• 2284[18:03:27] <greycat> It fails because it's not quoted correctly, and it also fails because $0 is conceptually broken and can be a lie.
• 2285[18:03:45] <greycat> replaced-url
• 2286[18:04:49] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> So basically... the advice is "check with pwd and if it lies abort"?
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• 2288[18:05:26] <greycat> The advice is "configure the location of your script's resources in the script, or in a well-known place like /etc"
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• 2294[18:06:52] <greycat> Or in other words, "do not assume you can just drop your script plus its resources any freaking place you feel like".
• 2295[18:07:03] <geri> get this error: replaced-url
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• 2313[18:17:01] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Hm
• 2314[18:18:11] <tripkin> Aurora_iz_kosmos: Your best bet if you want the deepin desktop with debian is to simply install deepin - at this time. Unless you want to do the porting yourself and compile the source on your debian install...
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• 2316[18:18:45] <tripkin> It is apparently built on debian stable.
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• 2328[18:22:41] <nlpqda> Is there an application similar to DeepFreez on windows? so that I can freely mess around with Debian configurations and applications then everything reset to previous state once rebooted?
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• 2331[18:24:22] <nlpqda> of course specially messing with python 2 & 3
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• 2337[18:25:59] <jelly> nlpqda: no, not really
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• 2341[18:27:03] <nlpqda> beautiful
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• 2343[18:27:14] <nlpqda> lazy linux folks :D
• 2344[18:27:16] <jelly> you can use lvm snapshots or btrfs snapshots or some similar functionality but there's no decent simple OS integration
• 2345[18:27:55] <nlpqda> Docker is somewhat related to lvm .. right?
• 2346[18:27:56] <jelly> so you do snapshots manually, and if you decide to go back, reboot into a live cd and go back to snapshot state manually
• 2347[18:28:21] <jelly> docker is used to manage containers
• 2348[18:28:51] <nlpqda> I assume those snapshots are just some sort of entire disk image like dd
• 2349[18:29:32] <jelly> not really; they're just deltas keeping track of only what's changed
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• 2351[18:30:09] <nlpqda> deltas?
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• 2353[18:30:17] <jelly> differentces.
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• 2356[18:30:50] <zodd> nlpqda, use virtualenv for python experiments
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• 2359[18:31:15] <nlpqda> ok.. thank you jelly I'll be googling btrfs & lvm \snapshots
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• 2361[18:31:18] <zodd> make requirement dumps so you can revert or make backups
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• 2365[18:31:50] <initfr> hello, any book or resource about init?
• 2366[18:31:52] <jelly> backups are a separate thing from being able to put the system back in time, and should be done regardless
• 2367[18:32:26] <greycat> initfr: what do you want to know?
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• 2369[18:32:52] <initfr> greycat: i want to understand why systemd is so dangerous
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• 2371[18:33:16] <greycat> You explicitly want anti-systemd propaganda? Maybe ask in a Devuan channel, then.
• 2372[18:33:55] <initfr> greycat: is about understanding, not anti-systemd propaganda
• 2373[18:34:06] <jelly> nlpqda: however, containers and similar (chroots) can give you flexibility to play with things and delete or clone the whole "os" inside a container. It's just that OS inside the container needs to be linux too.
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• 2375[18:34:27] <greycat> initfr: well, then, why did you phrase the question in that way? What makes you think it's "dangerous", and what does that even mean?
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• 2377[18:34:32] <initfr> greycat: understanding why i have 10ºC more in my CPU/GPU
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• 2379[18:34:53] <initfr> greycat: is about planned obsolescence too
• 2380[18:34:55] <greycat> that sounds more like a Desktop Environment or web browser thing
• 2381[18:35:08] <greycat> what plann... you know what? I'm done feeding you, troll.
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• 2384[18:35:57] <initfr> greycat: thanks anyway, now i can understand why debian continues using systemd, cheers!
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• 2386[18:36:50] <jelly> initfr: there are many things being said about systemd; some of those address transient bugs that have been fixed ages ago. Some are philosophical in nature more than technical. We're mostly tired of almost all of them, and prefer solving actual tech issues.
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• 2389[18:37:35] <nlpqda> thank you all and have a nice day
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• 2391[18:38:31] <dob1> in practice I have to read mbox from stdin not from a file
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• 2393[18:38:59] <greycat> the easiest way would be to dump it to a temp file...
• 2394[18:39:14] <dob1> I was thinking the same
• 2395[18:39:16] <jelly> dob1: what do you actually need to do with that input?
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• 2401[18:40:13] <jelly> is it reading mail, is it filtering some and doing actions based on contents or headers, is it something else?
• 2402[18:40:19] <dob1> jelly, it is the output of a notmuch query, then i have to read the results mails and find some of them that I need
• 2403[18:40:39] <jelly> so you're already using notmuch
• 2404[18:40:43] <dob1> yes
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• 2407[18:41:22] <jelly> ,recommends notmuch
• 2408[18:41:24] <judd> Package notmuch in buster/amd64 -- recommends: elpa-notmuch | notmuch-vim | notmuch-mutt | alot, gnupg-agent, gpgsm.
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• 2410[18:41:36] <jelly> ^ pick one of those integrations
• 2411[18:41:50] <jelly> ,i alot
• 2412[18:41:51] <judd> Package alot (mail, optional) in buster/amd64: Text mode MUA using notmuch mail. Version: 0.8.1-1+deb10u1; Size: 105.1k; Installed: 541k; Homepage: replaced-url
• 2413[18:41:53] <dob1> it's a bit more complex what I need now
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• 2416[18:42:11] <dob1> for daily use I use notmuch-mutt but now I am trying to do something else
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• 2426[18:43:21] <jelly> saying that would have been helpful to avoid making us suggest the same thing...
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• 2428[18:43:54] <jelly> maybe explain the "something else"
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• 2430[18:44:28] <dob1> jelly, it's long and boring :) I am trying to find the pieces that can help me to accomplish this task
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• 2434[18:45:09] <Akuw_> i am suing "su - someuser -c "ln -sf /data/storage/image /home/storage/image" but got "ln: failed to create symbolic link ‘/home/storage/image’: Permission denied"
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• 2436[18:45:25] <greycat> sounds pretty clear.
• 2437[18:45:47] *** Quits: mrrobot__ (~mrrobot@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 2438[18:45:48] <jelly> Akuw_: does someuser have permissions to write in /home/storage directory?
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• 2441[18:47:24] <Akuw_> yes
• 2442[18:47:30] <greycat> Show us.
• 2443[18:47:45] <greycat> ls -ld /home/storage ; and run "id" in a shell as "someuser"
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• 2445[18:48:10] <greycat> or even better, su - someuser -c id
• 2446[18:48:20] <greycat> since that will exactly replicate the environment from your failed ln
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• 2454[18:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1559
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• 2457[18:50:05] <Akuw_> i check
• 2458[18:50:12] <Akuw_> was a permission error
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• 2475[18:58:18] <jelly> !win Akuw_
• 2476[18:58:18] <dpkg> Congratulations, Akuw_! You have won the US presidency!
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• 2480[18:59:31] <Akuw_> jellY: u suck
• 2481[18:59:34] <Akuw_> jejejejeje
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• 2483[19:02:26] <jil> Hi
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• 2486[19:05:19] <ice99> how to generate timestamp like this "20200101175842"?
• 2487[19:05:48] <greycat> date +%Y%m%d%H%M%S or something like that, depending on what those last digits are supposed to be
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• 2489[19:06:37] <greycat> if you need better than 1-second resolution, you probably want to ask in the channel for whatever programming language you're working in that *is* *not* *bash* *or* *sh*
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• 2497[19:11:40] <jelly> date -I is good enough for me!
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• 2499[19:12:16] <jelly> oh no, that's just the date, sorry
• 2500[19:12:36] <greycat> the last thing I want to do is memorize a bunch of screwy *options* in addition to all the %-codes
• 2501[19:13:09] <greycat> (not that I have memorized all of the %-codes either... just the main ones)
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• 2508[19:14:48] <quarterback> Why is that uptime resets every 24 hours in debian 10?
• 2509[19:15:06] <greycat> It doesn't. Either your system is rebooting, or you're misreading something.
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• 2512[19:15:27] <quarterback> I typed uptime, the same command before 24 hours had elapsed.
• 2513[19:15:49] <greycat> and it says...?
• 2514[19:15:55] <quarterback> It didn't reboot after 24 hours. I read uptime as 1:00 after 25 hours.
• 2515[19:16:10] <greycat> !exact
• 2516[19:16:10] <dpkg> Please tell us exactly what you typed, and exactly what the error was. Please use a <pastebin> like replaced-url
• 2517[19:16:14] *** Joins: cheet (~cheet@replaced-ip)
• 2518[19:16:31] <quarterback> uptime and htop give different uptime results.
• 2519[19:16:38] <greycat> and they are...?
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• 2525[19:17:51] <quarterback> When I typed uptime, I got: 23:46:42 up 6:32, 1 user, load average: 0.09, 0.18, 0.31
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• 2528[19:18:11] <quarterback> This changes to 00:00:00 after 24 hours.
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• 2534[19:19:12] <quarterback> The monitoring program htop shows different uptime of 06:34:57
• 2535[19:19:36] <jelly> quarterback: the uptime command also says something after that 00:00:00
• 2536[19:19:36] <quarterback> How weird is this? I had hoped both show the same uptime.
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• 2541[19:20:04] <jelly> it involves "up" and a nonzero number and "day"
• 2542[19:20:22] <quarterback> jelly, let me check after half hour and report uptime again.
• 2543[19:20:47] *** Quits: __marco (~marco@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 2544[19:21:03] <jhutchins_wk> quarterback: dmesg -T, /var/log/messages|syslog
• 2545[19:21:04] <jelly> quarterback: "up 6:32" is your actual uptime. The first bit of the string seems to just be local time.
• 2546[19:21:08] *** Quits: winy (~vince@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving.)
• 2547[19:21:59] <jelly> uptime command has some options, too
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• 2549[19:22:31] <greycat> uptime shows the local system clock, then the word "up", then the amount of time the system has been running since the last boot, then the words "load average", then the load averages for the last 1, 5, and 15 minutes.
• 2550[19:23:24] <quarterback> greycat, Thanks for explaining.
• 2551[19:23:25] <jelly> there's also number of users logged in to a tty somewhere in all that
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• 2555[19:23:43] <greycat> oh, true... my eyes just skip right over that, I guess
• 2556[19:24:11] <greycat> I don't even want to try to guess what that number means, because it's definitely not the number of login sessions.
• 2557[19:24:15] <quarterback> greycat, I forgot how the uptime command worked. I always used top or htop.
• 2558[19:24:43] *** Quits: mmx_in_orbit (~mmx_in_sp@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
• 2559[19:24:47] <greycat> looks like it matches the number of lines in the output of "who", though
• 2560[19:25:05] <quarterback> greycat, I think they should put the actual "uptime" as first field since "time" as the second field.It makes sense if they can think about it.
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• 2563[19:25:39] <greycat> It's the kind of thing that has a historical precedent, and so it doesn't change easily.
• 2564[19:25:42] *** Quits: V7 (~v7@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.7)
• 2565[19:25:48] <greycat> HP-UX 11i for example has this format:
• 2566[19:25:48] <greycat> 1:25pm up 230 days, 5:52, 1 user, load average: 0.01, 0.00, 0.00
• 2567[19:25:51] <jelly> quarterback: I think format of tools aged 20+years probably should not change arbitrarily. Also. CHECK THE OPTIONS IN THE MANUAL.
• 2568[19:26:19] <jelly> 19:26:12 up 18 days, 23:33, 25 users, load average: 2.68, 2.25, 1.82
• 2569[19:26:40] <quarterback> jelly, It is not so important that I check this tool thoroughly. I got this OS for free as in free beer. From what it got, it is just great for me.
• 2570[19:27:04] *** Joins: danielig (~daniel@replaced-ip)
• 2571[19:27:15] * jelly has a lot of screens and terminals
• 2572[19:27:35] <quarterback> if you are running lot of VM's then definitely load on your machine is higher.
• 2573[19:28:14] <quarterback> I ran a small debian webserver and ircd long time ago and rarely its load was above 0.5
• 2574[19:28:24] <quarterback> This was on a VM.
• 2575[19:28:30] <jelly> I run a web browser.
• 2576[19:29:17] *** Quits: DogManJr (~fvf@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 2577[19:29:18] <jelly> but that was a comment on "25 users"
• 2578[19:29:52] <jelly> load average on Linux is... weird
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• 2581[19:30:22] <quarterback> oh, in the above case, there was only one user, the lighttpd server or something else and a logged in user with ssh.
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• 2585[19:31:44] <quarterback> It was on a shared VM server. They had some rule like I cant run have a load of 0.5 or 1.0 for more than 15 minutes continuously or else they would shut it down temporarily.
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• 2588[19:32:26] <wild_buffalo> I've added an Apple bluetooth keyboard to my Debian machine
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• 2591[19:32:55] <wild_buffalo> it mostly works fine, except the fn key doesn't work as an fn key, it decreases the brightness
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• 2593[19:33:06] <wild_buffalo> How would I go by fixing that?
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• 2599[19:39:30] <xormor> replaced-url
• 2600[19:39:40] <n_1-c_k> wild_buffalo, maybe 'dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration', as root I think. Or possibly use xbindkeys. If no one offers an easier way.
• 2601[19:39:45] <xormor> this is a Debian replaced-url
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• 2607[19:41:08] <xormor> should be the same as: replaced-url
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• 2610[19:41:42] <xormor> I did a perfect copy of the files in those both places, the files are in ~/public_html/ of course
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• 2612[19:43:43] <wild_buffalo> n_1-c_k: I look into that, but it's a laptop, so changing the default keyboard is not ideal, since sometimes I use it as well
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• 2620[19:45:50] <xormor> my Finnish DNA Internet ISP sucks. it gives too slow response to the incoming ipv4 connections, at least to the http port 80 that is. my ISP is DNA Internet (Finnish).
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• 2635[19:52:13] <n_1-c_k> wild_buffalo, maybe combine it with some udev trickery... g'luck.
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• 2638[19:53:49] <k3tan> hey, what's the best way of getting remote desktop server to work? i installed gnome-remote-desktop package, configured it in settings but every time i connect it says "connection closed". any pointers?
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• 2643[19:55:54] <wild_buffalo> sigh
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• 2652[20:00:52] <xormor> k3tan, firewall. password. encryption.
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• 2664[20:06:39] <cybrNaut> i just accidentally clobbered a config file (/etc/asterisk/cel.conf). How can I get it back? I just want the factory default file.
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• 2666[20:07:15] <cybrNaut> i hope I don't have to remove/install the whole package b/c I already have some configs I don't want messed with
• 2667[20:07:23] <greycat> !confmiss
• 2668[20:07:23] <dpkg> You have to especially tell the packaging system to reinstall config files because when they are gone, it is assumed that you want them to stay deleted. "aptitude -o DPkg::Options::='--force-confmiss' reinstall $packagename" will restore them (man dpkg for details). If the package uses <ucf> for config file management, ask me about <ucf confmiss>.
• 2669[20:08:39] <cybrNaut> greycat: thanks, but won't that affect all config files? i just want one file in particular if possible
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• 2676[20:09:41] <greycat> well then, extract the .deb and copy the config file where you want it
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• 2678[20:10:17] <cybrNaut> i was just starting to consider that.. thanks
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• 2681[20:12:20] <jelly> cybrNaut: confmiss is supposed to replace files that are missing. Unlike say confdef
• 2682[20:12:28] <cybrNaut> actually, perhaps your command will work. The man page implies that only missing files are replaced. So I could just delete the config files that I clobbered and do the force-confmiss
• 2683[20:12:50] <cybrNaut> jelly: indeed, just realized that.. i'll give it a try
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• 2688[20:17:29] <k3tan> xormor: where do i get into the firewall settings?
• 2689[20:17:43] <cybrNaut> didn't work. I ran => rm /etc/asterisk/cel.conf && aptitude -o DPkg::Options::='--force-confmiss' reinstall asterisk
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• 2693[20:18:00] <cybrNaut> the /etc/asterisk/cel.conf file was not created
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• 2695[20:18:31] <greycat> cel.conf isn't shown on replaced-url
• 2696[20:18:36] <greycat> there's a cel.conf.example
• 2697[20:18:52] <cybrNaut> thanks.. will use the sample
• 2698[20:19:00] <greycat> err, cel.conf.sample, my bad
• 2699[20:20:10] <greycat> hmm, don't see it in replaced-url
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• 2701[20:23:04] <cybrNaut> well, I found /usr/share/asterisk/conf/samples/cel.conf.sample using apt-file search, and grabbed that
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• 2703[20:23:44] <greycat> *nod* that's the one from the filelist. I have no idea how the package actually works.
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• 2712[20:27:29] <cybrNaut> there is a defect in the Debian distro of Asterisk, documented here => replaced-url
• 2713[20:27:43] <cybrNaut> it mentions Ubuntu but it's the same error on Debian.
• 2714[20:28:08] <cybrNaut> it's probably a harmless error, but i was messing with those files just to make the noise go away
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• 2716[20:29:02] <greycat> Clearly it was important to put an 848px high banner at the top of this page about how to work around a bug.
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• 2719[20:29:53] <cybrNaut> lol
• 2720[20:30:07] <cybrNaut> absurd banner indeed
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• 2723[20:33:11] <xormor> k3tan, your router firewall settings. it is an IP address or a DNS name, hostname.
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• 2738[20:45:14] <tharkun> /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lz\r collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
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• 2740[20:45:33] <greycat> Carriage returns are your enemy.
• 2741[20:45:57] <tharkun> greycat: I know but people get pissed if you paste more than one line.
• 2742[20:46:06] <greycat> Edit whatever script or Makefile this thing is, and get rid of the carrige returns.
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• 2744[20:46:32] <tharkun> greycat: The \r is my edit of the output.
• 2745[20:46:36] <greycat> *sigh*
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• 2747[20:46:44] <greycat> So you REALLY MEANT to type \n not \r then.
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• 2749[20:46:50] <greycat> Jesus Christ.
• 2750[20:47:15] <tharkun> greycat: I am a vim user for quite some time old habits die hard.
• 2751[20:47:20] <greycat> So the ACTUAL PROBLEM is that you're missing the zlib1g-dev package, not that your fucking build script/makefile is infested with Windows line endings.
• 2752[20:47:51] <tharkun> greycat: Is seems you are having a bad day?
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• 2758[20:48:57] <davis> hello, where is a good guide on how to create a desktop icon which runs a bash script? I want to add an icon to my available "Activities" in the desktop.
• 2759[20:49:27] * tharkun silently goes back to lurking before greycat shows him the exit. :)
• 2760[20:49:30] <greycat> it... shouldn't be any different from a .desktop thing that runs a compiled program
• 2761[20:50:41] <dispersed> maybe you want to run it in a terminal, so launch a terminal and inside that, a bash, and therein, the script
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• 2763[20:51:00] <dispersed> better yet run it in a vm
• 2764[20:51:07] <davis> greycat: very good. What is a good guide for descriping the .desktop process?
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• 2767[20:51:36] <davis> greycat: I currently do not have a .desktop dir or file in my home dir.
• 2768[20:51:48] <greycat> So you don't know how to run ANY programs at all, and the "bash script" part wasn't just the new thing...
• 2769[20:52:19] <davis> greycat: correct. I know how to run programs with terminal and how to find them from the activities launcher.
• 2770[20:52:48] <greycat> What window manager or desktop environment is it? Maybe someone here knows how to configure it.
• 2771[20:52:56] <davis> ie. if I click activities, and then type in search bar, it will show them. I want to add a new icon.
• 2772[20:53:13] <davis> greycat: i don't know the name. Its the default one when you do an install.
• 2773[20:53:21] <greycat> *facepalm*
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• 2776[20:54:34] <davis> also, if you click the activities text in top left of the desktop, it shows a grid icon at the bottom of the left side pane. When this icon is clicked in brings up an applicationi browser so you can choose applications which have registered with the desktop.
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• 2778[20:54:59] <tharkun> !basics
• 2779[20:55:02] <davis> greycat: fwiw, when clicking about the desktop, I don't see any "help->about" to know what this desktop manager is called.
• 2780[20:55:22] <greycat> how about... env | grep SESSION_TYPE
• 2781[20:56:00] <davis> XDG_SESSION_TYPE wayland
• 2782[20:56:18] <davis> wayland is the Xserver right?
• 2783[20:56:28] <greycat> So, probably GNOME on Wayland. And no, Wayland is the other thing that's not X.
• 2784[20:56:30] <davis> is XDG the name of the desktop manager?
• 2785[20:56:40] <davis> gotcha
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• 2787[20:56:48] <greycat> XDG is the name of the organization that spits out a lot of the desktop crap for Linux.
• 2788[20:56:49] <davis> not an xserver, but something similar.
• 2789[20:56:52] <tharkun> No
• 2790[20:57:20] <greycat> or it's their former name, or something like that
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• 2792[20:57:50] <davis> greycat: cool. many thanks. this looks promising. replaced-url
• 2793[20:57:56] <greycat> 'freedesktop.org was formerly known as the X Desktop Group, and the abbreviation "XDG" remains common in their work.'
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• 2795[20:59:11] <terr_> greycat, I took yesterday off... I might tackle grub later today. Its a mild cold/flu. what I need to do is track down how my test computer actually booted - and I forgot, since I installed Stretch over a year ago... from a windows box. I'll re-read the docs and see if I can figure out how I did it.
• 2796[21:00:15] *** Joins: mthe878 (~mthe@replaced-ip)
• 2797[21:00:18] <openbsdtai123> Why debian is today a pretty slow operating system?
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• 2800[21:00:52] <greycat> Perhaps you didn't install all of the non-free firmware that your hardware wants.
• 2801[21:00:53] <openbsdtai123> In the past the BSD and Linux were both greatly fast and efficient. Today debian has slow perfs compared to BSD. Is the kernel the reason?
• 2802[21:00:56] <greycat> PErhaps you're just trolling.
• 2803[21:01:01] <davis> greycat: many thanks again. You are a huge asset to the community.
• 2804[21:01:02] <openbsdtai123> I am serious.
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• 2807[21:01:55] <openbsdtai123> I use devuan, debian, and BSDs in all variants. This is kinda sad a bit. does it have sthg to do with mem management? Netbsd has a new technology to handle mem, I guess likely better today.
• 2808[21:02:04] <greycat> *plonk*
• 2809[21:02:06] <openbsdtai123> However wayland is fast as helll, but still.
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• 2811[21:03:53] <terr_> openbsdtai123, I use both as well. Are you talking CPU? Disk IO? please define what YOU mean by fast.
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• 2817[21:05:36] <ratrace> terr_: nothing, they're just trolling, every now and then same stupid question, why debian bad this, why debian bad that.
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• 2820[21:06:06] <davis> fwiw, i used to use openbsd back in 1990's. It was fast and secure. The drawback was the number of apps available. Based upon the apps I use now, I see a lot of downloads for .debs, windows, osx. I seldom if any see downloads for BSD.
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• 2822[21:07:00] <greycat> I used openbsd as my home router for a while, but the machines I was using kept dying, and I eventually gave up and bought a consumer-grade router.
• 2823[21:07:07] <terr_> ratrace, we sort of care about performance and I am told Linux is slow compared to Windows.
• 2824[21:07:37] <openbsdtai123> I am talking about netbsd in particularly, for I/O, mem, and base.tgz system. it is so far much faster than debian. I dont talk even about X11 (tested on most architectures).
• 2825[21:08:00] <greycat> sounds like fake news to me
• 2826[21:08:05] <terr_> greycat, I have three (3) openBSD routers/firewalls and use it for the web servers.
• 2827[21:08:16] <ratrace> terr_: sounds like windows is the better choice for your performance needs.
• 2828[21:08:35] <terr_> openbsdtai123, what file systems are you using?
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• 2830[21:08:55] <davis> openbsdtai123: a ferrari is much faster than my toyota, but for my purposes my toyota is better suited. I'm using it to work and not run benchmarks.
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• 2832[21:09:15] <terr_> ratrace, not mine... a close friend... and they run 3000 core machines. the NEED performance... both IO and CPU
• 2833[21:10:07] <ratrace> terr_: hopefully they run windows then
• 2834[21:10:57] <openbsdtai123> davis: I am not so sure, but I have impression that the base system of debian is taking low of resource. I need to check with a benchmark, but it is not much necessary. it looks obvioius when using netbsd. (i talk about base, no kde or heavy softwware).
• 2835[21:11:28] <terr_> I want a Telsa. 0 to 60 in 3 seconds. then 4x100 = 400 kilometer range and 3 hours to re-charge. Pretty good performance. My diesel truck - 0 to 60 in about a minute when loaded with 2 tones of honey (in hive boxes) - 3 minutes to recharge.
• 2836[21:12:14] <terr_> ratrace, they are biased and they do run windows. I have NO IDEA how linux would handle 3000 cores. I'd like to find out.
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• 2838[21:12:51] <ratrace> terr_: consider that almost all supercomputers on the planet run linux. must be some reason.
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• 2840[21:13:17] <terr_> If I put a trailer on a Tesla EV and loaded it wotu 2 tones of honey I wonder what range it will get and how fast to get to 100 KM/h
• 2841[21:13:35] <terr_> ratrace, I know!
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• 2843[21:14:17] <ratrace> terr_: 10k cores here :) replaced-url
• 2844[21:14:20] <terr_> openbsdtai123, we can run a Siesmic migration. that is a good test.
• 2845[21:14:35] <ratrace> (old news by now)
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• 2847[21:15:30] <terr_> ratrace, I think they have more than one compute box. These are JUSt the crunchers... 3000 cores for migrations.
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• 2849[21:16:37] <ratrace> I have yet to hear of a supercomputer running BSD.
• 2850[21:17:31] <terr_> openbsdtai123, I would bench all using NTFS. What I heard was the "NTFS" is faster than linux. For all I know they jigged the bench and used FAT on the linux system.
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• 2854[21:18:13] <ratrace> my turn for *plonk*. you heard a _filesystem_ is faster than a _kernel_?
• 2855[21:18:28] <ratrace> did you laugh them out of the room?
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• 2858[21:20:11] <openbsdtai123> terr_: to benchmark it, it is not easy. many complex things enter in play. that's why maybe just usage and experience ... based on daily use.
• 2859[21:20:41] <davis> openbsdtai123: fwiw, look at this. I'm not saying google is the end-all, be-all, but they are rather large. replaced-url
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• 2861[21:21:28] <davis> it mentions they use a heavily customized debian. Linux shows up three times on that page. BSD 0.
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• 2865[21:21:51] <openbsdtai123> I am right now using raspbian on pi and using netbsd on pi, left and right, raspbian takes ages to operate sthg, while netbsd did the job already in a flash. same hardware.
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• 2867[21:22:28] <davis> openbsdtai123: if you are using raspbian and you are interested in performance. I suggest buildroot.
• 2868[21:23:06] <openbsdtai123> ok, we can build a performance debian for pi and let's compare. I am fairly interested who will run faster... just curiosity.
• 2869[21:23:28] <davis> anyway I need to bolt, best of luck to you.
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• 2876[21:24:38] <greycat> I would guess that for most people here, the "google server farm" more closely matches their needs than the "number-crunching supercomputer", if they have any servers at all. Desktop users, neither one matters.
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• 2892[21:30:11] <terr_> for me? Performance doesn't matter at all. I am still using N270s and they this one is UGGHH still on windows 7 and is running 66% cpu
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• 2894[21:30:47] <terr_> openbsdtai123, I have a raspberry also.. and I like peach better.
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• 2896[21:31:06] <terr_> Issue is - its SD based. I think that makes a HUGE difference.
• 2897[21:31:10] <terr_> bbs
• 2898[21:31:34] <openbsdtai123> well, if you run servers and professional things (base.tgz), it can make the difference. Desktop is fine, not much needs, KDE is fine if it does comfortable desktop.
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• 2911[21:38:55] <terr_> openbsdtai123, well - my opinion (not knowing anything at all about your needs) is that CPU should not be an issue at all. Reason: Take I for instance. As far as I know... I can choose 2 core, 4 core and 6 core... all same for me... its a pretty small part of the total system. So I have a HUGE like 3x (not counting clock cycles) performance boost just by doing a CPU swap
• 2912[21:39:19] <terr_> take I5 for inst6nace - sticky key
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• 2923[21:43:22] <celariuz> Hello everyone
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• 2925[21:43:39] <celariuz> Im just trying to get started with proxmox, comming from virtualbox. And i am wondering, how do i share a folder/mounted MergerFS pool with one or more VMs?
• 2926[21:43:48] <greycat> !proxmox
• 2927[21:43:48] <dpkg> Proxmox Virtual Environment (Proxmox VE) is a GNU/Linux distribution <based on Debian>, providing a virtualization platform with <LXC> and <KVM>. It is not supported in #debian. There's an unofficial proxmox channel on Freenode. For official venues, see ##replaced-url
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• 2931[21:45:07] <celariuz> ohh, so no hints up in here fpr Proxmox? greycat
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• 2944[21:50:54] <terr_> celariuz, I will be installing VirtualBox. I can do it now in fact.
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• 2948[21:51:47] <terr_> Presently I'm upgrading from Stretch to Buster... (well - not really an upgrade since the drives are separate and will stay that way...
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• 2951[21:52:39] <terr_> I installed kvm - and so far I don't know if it can run. My current test machine (victum) is an N270 (32 bit)... but I have some I55's for later.
• 2952[21:52:43] <dob1> did you have to disable secure boot too?
• 2953[21:52:45] <dob1> do
• 2954[21:52:59] <terr_> dob1, for me?
• 2955[21:53:05] <dob1> for installing virtualbox
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• 2959[21:53:58] <terr_> dob1, I haven't installed it - only kvm... and I never tried to use it... you must be asking celariuz
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• 2961[21:54:58] <terr_> dob1, I'll install VMWare and VirtualBox and try them all. These are test machines... its no issue ot have all 3 options available.
• 2962[21:55:58] <celariuz> I tried KVM and Virtualbox before...Virtualbox seems to be mor convenient ootb, but KVM has more power.
• 2963[21:56:00] <dob1> terr_, when I installed virtualbox I was unable to load the module because secure boot was enabled. I read I have to sign the module to make it works but it very complicated
• 2964[21:56:18] <dob1> *it was
• 2965[21:57:05] <celariuz> Is a NFS or SMB share the only way in KVM to share folders from host to guest?
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• 2967[21:57:53] <terr_> celariuz, I would expect it to be that way.
• 2968[21:57:55] <ksk> celariuz: ssh(fs) maybe? depends on the usecase.
• 2969[21:58:54] <terr_> The virtual machine gets its own IP address. I do not know if shared drives are implemented in Linux. In the Z series I do expect they are.
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• 2971[21:59:49] <ksk> I think you can use them, but if I remember correctly permissions/id-mapping is an issue.
• 2972[21:59:49] <davis> hello, I am trying to add a xx.desktop file to .local/share/applications/ directory. The first time I added it, I could click activities, click search and type xx and it appeared. However when I clicked the new app icon it failed to run. I examined the Exec line and noted I had a typo. I fixed that and now it no longer shows when I click search and enter xx
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• 2975[22:00:47] <terr_> celariuz, check the I/O speeds. I DOUBT if you would ever need to have access at the drive level between 2 machines. But - I also expect a virtual machine CAN have access to an actual interface like a USB card.
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• 2983[22:04:21] <jhutchins_wk> celariuz: There is sshfs, but I don't know it's current status.
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• 2987[22:05:21] <terr_> USB 3.2 is so bloody fast that we need USB<->USB networking now.
• 2988[22:06:01] <jhutchins_wk> celariuz: If this is for a virtual host, most of the systems allow shared folders (vbox does).
• 2989[22:06:59] <celariuz> thanks for hint with sshfs ksk jhutchins_wk What i actually try to achieve is Proxmox+Snapraid+MergerFS+NAS(SMB/NFS)+VMs...but right now im not sure about how to strcuture the things the right way.
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• 2991[22:07:52] <celariuz> jhutchins_wk yes, that waht i try to achieve with proxmox too...simple shared folders, without a NFS share in between...but i guess there is no such thing as "shared folders" in proxmox like in Virtualbox.
• 2992[22:08:02] <tripkin> I know that shared folders in virtualbox for linux works fine - I have a windows guest set up to access some of my linux host folders, which it does without issue.
• 2993[22:08:06] <terr_> jhutchins_wk, I'm not yet there - like I don't have any VMs actually running yet... a shared folder - do you mean like /dev/sda5 ( I wouldn't suggest sda1 - typically it will be boot). How about sdb* (say an external HDD over USB 3)
• 2994[22:08:55] <jhutchins_wk> terr_: That's a partition, not a folder/directory.
• 2995[22:09:14] <terr_> tripkin, how? How does it work.
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• 2997[22:09:56] <terr_> jhutchins_wk, ya - I know its a partition. /home/share would be a directory... is that what you mean by "folder"?
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• 3001[22:10:48] <terr_> and HOW can it work? The LINUX files are not even necessarily synced...
• 3002[22:10:57] <jhutchins_wk> I set the path to be shared in the host, host makes it available for the guest to mount. I have /media/CentosHome on this VM, which presents a folder from my Windows home directory.
• 3003[22:11:21] <terr_> does the guest just talk to the host O/S drivers?
• 3004[22:11:25] <tripkin> terr_: when I set up my vm in virtualbox, one of the configuration options is shared folders. So in there, I specify which folders (eg /home/user/Documents) I want to have available to the guest. They are then available to the guest as a mapped drive / shared folder. I can also choose to automount them in the guest at that point as well.
• 3005[22:11:31] <greycat> sounds like a SMB/CIFS type thing, files shared via a protocol, not raw disk access
• 3006[22:12:01] <terr_> greycat, that is what I am thinking.
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• 3009[22:12:08] <tripkin> greycat: that is probably correct
• 3010[22:12:09] <greycat> (raw disk access would be terribly dangerous, probably corrupt everything)
• 3011[22:12:29] <tripkin> It is certainly mounted in the windows guest as a samba share
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• 3013[22:12:49] <terr_> greycat, I think IBM actually had it running in their systems... 370 and on... which means it will still be there.
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• 3015[22:13:26] <greycat> the general rule for shared disks is that only one client can have it read-write at a time
• 3016[22:13:53] <terr_> today there is little reason for a dual ported drive of any sort. the networking is far faster than a drive... but I don't know about ssd
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• 3020[22:14:53] <terr_> greycat, then I _should_ be able to umount /dev/sdb1 from the house and mount it in the guest
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• 3022[22:15:11] <greycat> *shrug*
• 3023[22:15:12] <terr_> s /house/host/
• 3024[22:15:22] <jhutchins_wk> Mine is filesystem type vboxsf
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• 3026[22:16:24] <terr_> greycat, I _should_ also be able to plug in an external HDD and use a VM to mount and run whatever OS is installed on the external drive. (and that is something I really want to do)
• 3027[22:17:16] <tripkin> terr_: you are correct. Unmounting, of course, being possible when nothing else is using the drive in the host os
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• 3031[22:17:41] <tripkin> Same goes for your second comment about mounting a physical drive and booting off it
• 3032[22:18:05] <greycat> this all sounds perfectly reasonable in theory, but I don't know VM stuff well enough to tell you *how* to do any of it
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• 3034[22:19:04] <terr_> tripkin, what can I run in this N270 for this? Its worth my time to get it running.
• 3035[22:19:24] <terr_> N270 atom is running stretch.
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• 3040[22:23:46] <tripkin> terr_: I would think anything than can run on an atom processor should be just fine. After that, if you are able to run virtualbox, then you should be able to run anything that virtualbox can handle in that environment. If that answers your question...
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• 3043[22:24:44] <greycat> The question you should be asking is something like, "In kvm/virtualbox/whatever this is, how do I indicate from the host that a disk should be made available in raw form to the guest".
• 3044[22:25:12] <greycat> At least, that's the question you want answered for *one* of the many things you've been talking about.
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• 3046[22:25:43] <terr_> tripkin, nooo... because I have not yet looked on what versions of Virtual Box or VMWare or kvm (qemu) can even run on the N270... as for apps? there are none. I am only installing the OS right now.
• 3047[22:26:11] <greycat> So you're not even *running* any of the VM things yet? Still in the "which one do I pick" stage?
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• 3049[22:26:50] <terr_> greycat, umount - both ways. If the OS has booted in the VM off the removable - then shutdown the machine.
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• 3052[22:27:34] <terr_> greycat, I PLAN on using VMs - I haven't tried to install - I have used VMWare in the past and it worked very well.
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• 3054[22:27:56] <davis> fwiw my error with the .desktop file for debian gnome launcher was the NoDisplay= setting. That is not for hiding the script/terminal window. That setting determines if it shows up in the activities->search results.
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• 3056[22:28:27] <tripkin> Ahh. Gotcha. I don't run atom processors, so I have not tried any virtualization on them. I am not sure you will be able to run anything that is not designed for atom processors in a vm, though.
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• 3059[22:28:44] <greycat> Isn't it just an i386?
• 3060[22:28:58] <greycat> I know some atoms are actually amd64, but not all.
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• 3062[22:29:04] <terr_> greycat, I wan't really planning on installing a VM quite yet - but the kvm install was smooth - only I am not aware if it can even run in a 32 bit non-vmx machine...
• 3063[22:29:27] <greycat> (because why would you assign just ONE architecture to a brand when you could confuse the hell out of everybody)
• 3064[22:29:45] <terr_> greycat, mine is. I do know some atoms in fact are 64 bit - not these (I have like 4 of them - I got them, for like $50 bux each)
• 3065[22:30:14] <Mx19> hello what so
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• 3069[22:31:52] <terr_> greycat, not my intention at all. I just want to know if ANY of the VMs can run in an N270 - and I would be very surprised if they can't because VMWare certainly did and without any vmx and it worked for me in 1998 - just fine thankyou... and in fact I was running Oracle under VMWare (as in the database)
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• 3114[22:51:09] *** Joins: angerctl (~glei@replaced-ip)
• 3115[22:51:15] *** Quits: soee (~soee@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 3116[22:51:40] *** milobit- is now known as milobit
• 3117[22:52:10] *** milobit is now known as Guest22657
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• 3119[22:53:07] *** Guest22657 is now known as mjauu
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• 3121[22:54:11] *** Quits: pringau (~pringau@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3122[22:54:12] *** Quits: n_1-c_k (~n_1-c_k@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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• 3126[22:57:29] *** Joins: Twemlow (~Twemlow@replaced-ip)
• 3127[22:58:27] *** Quits: mspe (~mspe@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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• 3130[23:02:31] *** Quits: oncotop (~oncotop@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3131[23:02:31] *** Quits: jnavila (~jnavila@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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• 3133[23:03:14] *** Quits: monstar_ (~monstar@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 3134[23:03:34] *** angerctl is now known as Namarrgon
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• 3151[23:16:01] *** Quits: greycat (~wooledg@replaced-ip) (Quit: They see me clawin' the love seat / They won't do nothin' 'cause I'm cute and furry)
• 3152[23:16:15] *** Quits: black_ant (~antilope@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 3153[23:16:19] *** Quits: Fager (~medard@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3154[23:16:53] *** Quits: cheet (~cheet@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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• 3156[23:17:29] *** Quits: platvoeten (~platvoete@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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• 3164[23:19:38] *** Parts: celariuz (bcc13c58@replaced-ip) ()
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• 3171[23:21:14] *** Quits: Onslaught2020 (~jeroen@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 3172[23:21:37] *** Quits: Twemlow (~Twemlow@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3173[23:22:16] *** Quits: thiras (~thiras@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 3174[23:24:28] *** Joins: gbit86 (uid97908@replaced-ip)
• 3175[23:24:47] *** Quits: Space_Man (~Space_Man@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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• 3181[23:27:51] *** Quits: cheet (~cheet@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 3182[23:28:01] *** Quits: Kruppt (~Kruppt@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
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• 3184[23:28:12] *** Quits: cheet (~cheet@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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• 3186[23:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1534
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• 3190[23:31:23] *** Quits: Barralastic (~Barralast@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 3191[23:32:10] *** Quits: cheet (~cheet@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 3192[23:32:48] *** Joins: paulez (~paul@replaced-ip)
• 3193[23:33:12] *** Quits: mandela900 (54d380cc@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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• 3195[23:34:18] *** Joins: thiras (~thiras@replaced-ip)
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• 3197[23:35:15] *** Joins: cheet (~cheet@replaced-ip)
• 3198[23:35:26] *** Quits: cheet (~cheet@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 3199[23:35:48] *** Quits: rda-mac (~rda-mac@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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• 3203[23:37:10] *** Quits: zapatista (~zapatista@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
• 3204[23:41:28] *** Quits: DogManJr (~fvf@replaced-ip) (Quit: Quitting)
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• 3206[23:43:50] *** Parts: rob_debian (~r4fkramer@replaced-ip) ()
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• 3210[23:46:45] *** Quits: Barralastic (~Barralast@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 3211[23:47:11] *** Joins: rwcom4 (~rwcom@replaced-ip)
• 3212[23:47:57] *** Quits: bhoman (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 3213[23:48:37] *** Joins: bhoman (~quassel@replaced-ip)
• 3214[23:48:52] *** Quits: rwcom (~rwcom@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
• 3215[23:48:52] *** rwcom4 is now known as rwcom
• 3216[23:50:26] *** Quits: LoudIntrovert (~LoudIntro@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 3217[23:51:08] *** Joins: m_g_lewis (~melvin@replaced-ip)
• 3218[23:51:11] *** Quits: hemimaniac (~hemi@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
• 3219[23:51:42] *** Quits: autopssy-turvy (~autopsy@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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• 3222[23:56:49] *** Joins: cheet (~cheet@replaced-ip)
• 3223[23:57:12] *** Quits: kapil_ (uid36151@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
• 3224[23:58:41] *** Joins: r0shi (~r0shi@replaced-ip)
• 3225[23:58:49] *** Joins: RedAres4 (redares4@replaced-ip)
• 3226[23:58:51] *** Quits: r0shi (~r0shi@replaced-ip) (Max SendQ exceeded)
• 3227[23:59:10] *** Joins: r0shi (~r0shi@replaced-ip)
• 3228[23:59:15] *** Quits: mtn (~mtn@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 3229[23:59:30] *** Quits: r0shi (~r0shi@replaced-ip) (Max SendQ exceeded)
• 3230[23:59:35] *** Joins: RedAres04 (redares4@replaced-ip)
• 3231[23:59:41] *** Quits: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 3232[23:59:50] *** Joins: r0shi (~r0shi@replaced-ip)
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