2[00:02:04] <hatter_> jhutchins, I have been upgrade boxes to
buster, usually when I run : shorewall restart it works, since
buster, I have to do /sbin/shorewall restart. This has happened on
about 10 so far, but I Just did one and it didn't happen.
3[00:02:40] <jhutchins> !su
4[00:02:41] <dpkg> extra, extra read all about it, su is
switch/set user. It is used to change User ID's and/or gain
super user access. Since Debian Buster, "su -" or "su
-l" is needed to access programs located in /sbin. It provides
an root environment as if the superuser had logged in directly. See
"man su".
5[00:02:42] <hatter_> Thinking about it, this box was a fresh
stretch install where the others have been upgraded from wheezy to
jessie to stretch to buster
13[00:04:55] <hatter_> but you are right, it's a pretty
vague question to ask in here.
14[00:05:08] <coruja> !usrmerge
15[00:05:09] <dpkg> /usr merge is the combining of /bin and
/usr/bin, /sbin and /usr/sbin on fresh installs of Debian 10 Buster.
On machines upgraded from Stretch, this is optional, and can be
accomplished if desired via the usrmerge package
37[00:16:20] <jhutchins> ratrace: Your use of the term
"fakeraid" is imprecise, uninformative, and prejudiced. It
does not help the user understand the difference or the advanatage
of software raid.
38[00:16:23] <hatter_> jhutchins, I have done about 30 boxes.
There is only 1 which had a major issue. The others are all fine.
Some minor teething things.
40[00:17:09] <jhutchins> hatter_: You might want to look at a
configuration management system like puppet, ansible, or cheff to
standardize settings across the board.
44[00:17:38] <hatter_> jhutchins, yes I think it's time
for that. When they are all Buster I will.
45[00:17:46] <hatter_> I am also migrating from virtualbox to
KVM.
46[00:17:59] <jhutchins> hatter_: This sounds a bit like a
computer lab. I know of labs where they re-image the systems from a
standard image every night.
51[00:20:02] <hatter_> unborn, yes, I have been using
virtualbox for years, it has been fine, it was better in the middle
part where it was part of debian proper, but I also use KVM on
Centos, I like the idea of being away from Oracle and on a system
that is so mature as KVM.
52[00:20:45] <hatter_> unborn, how are you managing your guest
VM's ?
58[00:23:09] <jhutchins> I don't manage our current
implementation, I just apply it.
59[00:23:16] <unborn> hatter_: personally I was using
virtualbox for long time as well.. I guess since 2009? I was scared
about kvm.. most parts I did not understand it, then I cam here and
someone suggest me to use it.. convert my vboxes to kvm and I did
try it.. I had problem with virtual network but since terminal
yelled on me the issue, it was simple, but beauty is I manage it
more efficient and use real shared resources.
60[00:23:18] <hatter_> jhutchins, which is you preference ?
61[00:23:37] <jhutchins> ansible is great for one-offs, puppet
has the advantage of 'enforcing' configurations so if
somebody changes something it gets changed back.
66[00:24:32] <hatter_> as in, apt-get update across multiple
boxes ?
67[00:24:58] <hatter_> unborn, what do you mean by 'real
shared resources' ?
68[00:25:11] <unborn> hatter_: virt-manager (I know it sounds
stupid but my mother is 58 years old and she needs windows for sage
and she is primary on debian past 8 years and she refused dual boot)
but it does worked for her and even for me
69[00:25:12] <jhutchins> hatter_: Puppet can get to a point
where it is consuming resources logrhythmicly, including your time.
It _can_ be managed sensibly.
71[00:25:57] <Randolf> ratrace: I wasn't insisting on a
fake RAID implementation, I was wanting to use hardware RAID. But
since it's not hardware, and therefore not real, I've shut
it off and wish to proceed with setting up software RAID now for
installing Debian 10.2.0.
72[00:26:25] <hatter_> randolf, mdadm is amazing
73[00:26:49] <ratrace> Randolf: good choice
74[00:26:58] <hatter_> I am not sure why to bother with
hardware raid, I guess for heavy systems it is faster
117[00:53:26] *** Quits: dez (uid92154@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
118[00:53:57] <Randolf> Okay, from the Debian installer (which I
have on a USB memory stick) is there a way to set up the software
RAID mirror from the get-go?
119[00:54:13] <hatter_> yes
120[00:54:23] <Randolf> Awesome! I just selected keyboard and
timezones.
131[00:56:47] <Randolf> I'm at the "Partition
disks" menu now. Should I select "Manual" for setting
up the mirror? Or is this something I'll need to do later on in
the process?
132[00:59:06] *** dix is now known as Malivaso
133[00:59:07] <hatter_> hmmm, I can't remember off the top
of my head, but yes to manual, configure software raid is right at
the beginning
134[01:00:02] *** Quits: Clarth (~Clarth@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
135[01:00:03] *** Quits: ghost64 (~ghost64@replaced-ip) (Quit: See you!)
137[01:00:49] <hatter_> you create the partitions on both
drives, then go into the software RAID section, then create your
mirrors, then setup your filesystem
160[01:07:33] <Randolf> Damn, "Starting up the
partitioner" is stuck at 50%. I probably need to reboot because
I can't kill the process in the shell on the second screen --
the "kill" command can't find the process ID even
though "ps" can.
161[01:07:48] <hatter_> perhaps if it is done automatically ?
are you creating your own partition sizes ?
168[01:08:39] <Randolf> No. It's a new, USB 3, and
connected to a USB 3 port. Installations are much faster this way --
I don't miss installing from CD or DVD.
169[01:08:50] <hatter_> ah nice
170[01:09:12] <hatter_> I had installs going from tftp once for
awhile, that was great.
171[01:09:53] <Randolf> One thing I dislike about all the
installation software these days is that they ask one question per
screen. I wish I could just see all the questions on one screen,
scroll along and enter the fields. Or even if there was a series of
only two or three of these it sure would be a lot easier.
175[01:12:07] *** Quits: thelastjedi (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
176[01:12:42] <Randolf> What the heck? I just rebooted, started
a fresh install, and told the Debian installer to fill up the whole
disk (with LVM), which normally works without any problem. But now
it's complaining "Error while deleting the logical
volume." I really don't care what's on the disk now
(which is essentially nothing) as this is a new install, so this
really shouldn't be an issue.
183[01:14:57] <qman__> my usual procedure for something like
that is to wipe the disks then reboot into the installer after
184[01:16:38] <Randolf> dvs: Okay, I removed all partitions from
both disks, but when I try to write the partition changes I get this
error: No root file system is defined.
185[01:16:45] <Randolf> Well, of course not, I just deleted all
the partitions.
186[01:17:30] <Randolf> This installer really needs to be a bit
more intelligent about this sort of thing -- past history
shouldn't be an issue.
187[01:17:48] <dvs> Randolf, restart the installer and erase the
partitions first.
189[01:18:22] <Randolf> Okay, I will have to continue this in a
few hours. Kids are home, and it's time for family activities.
Thanks everyone, I'll come back to this in a while.
195[01:21:02] <Randolf> The older one just started university a
few months ago, studying 3D Animation. The youngest is nearly
finished elementary school and is pre-occupied with Quantum Physics,
Hematology, Neuroscience, and Logic. Disk partitions really
aren't their specialties ... but they can be.
208[01:22:46] *** sedrosken_ is now known as sedrosken
209[01:22:47] <hatter_> Blender is making strides in the
animation space
210[01:23:05] <Randolf> Blender3D is at the point where I think
it can rival Maya.
211[01:23:26] <hatter_> apparently, they recently got a large
investment to work on the interface I believe
212[01:23:33] <Randolf> It was talked about at the university
class, but Maya gives licenses to the school to make sure students
are trained on their products.
213[01:23:53] <Randolf> Sorry, I have to go. I'll chat more
later. Thanks again for all your help.
279[02:20:12] <LACampbell42> hi, my wifi device is shown as down
in 'ip a', but 'ip link set wlo1' doesnt change
its state. lshw shows there is a driver. any ideas? works fine off
of rescue USB
347[03:22:22] *** Quits: john_k_h (~jkh@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
348[03:22:26] <Gerowen> Question regarding MATE. Why do .desktop
files that specify "Terminal=true" not launch? Tried it
using a clean install of Debain in a VM to see if it was something
broken about my system and didn't work there, setting
Terminal=false fixes the issue.
408[04:01:33] <john_k_h> I'm importing from a kde-4
installation. I've got sid loading now. I've been at linux
for 20+ years, so if I screw up, I'll just reload until I like
it or I go search for a different distro.
423[04:07:57] <ryouma> do you guys find it quicker and less
error-prone to (a) install on new hardware, then fix accounts,
permissions, package list, and /etc or (b) copy the running
installation to the new hardware, then fix sound, ethernet, x, etc.?
427[04:08:54] *** Quits: Tom01_ (~tom@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
428[04:08:55] <nvz> ryouma: there shouldn't really be
anything to fix when moving to new hardware unless you're using
proprietary drivers and custom X config
429[04:09:17] <nvz> if its the same arch, it should all just
work
432[04:11:48] <ryouma> i'd prefer (b) strongly too as (a)
is really daunting to get right. my computer broke, so i did (b) on
same arch (and same era old computer), and quickly fixed the fixed
ethernet naming scheme (really proud of myself for figuring out that
one -- it was just config -a and /etc/network/preferences), but it
is still not producing sound :(. i wonder if there are little
breakages here and there that are introduced by (
437[04:14:29] <ryouma> if it weren't for the broken sound,
it is just really really attractive to do (b), i.e. be able to copy
over, do the (imo bizarre) grub chroot thing, and you're done
464[04:41:00] <nvz> I normally fresh install and copy over /home
and /etc and such simply cause I'm usually doing this on an
outdated machine and I find it easier to just install the current
stuff fresh
465[04:41:54] <ryouma> why would (b) not work there?
466[04:42:32] <ryouma> for the last one
467[04:42:42] *** Quits: john_k_h (~jkh@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
468[04:42:49] <nvz> would just take longer.. you'd be
copying the whole disk not just the relevant data then updating
everything.. just seems simpler to me to install fresh.. idk
469[04:43:21] *** Quits: Gerowen (~Gerowen@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
470[04:43:38] <nvz> thats what I did on my father's
machine.. he was running stretch and we had to change his hdd cause
his old machine used a 2.5" 320G hdd and the new machine had a
3.5" 500G
471[04:43:50] <nvz> I just installed buster fresh and copied his
stuff over
482[04:47:15] <ryouma> i mean, not questioning your judgement,
just not understanding it
483[04:47:53] <nvz> its just all a matter of what you wanna do..
I didnt want to fool with trying to copy an old running system to a
larger disk and upgrading it
484[04:48:14] *** Quits: john_k_h (~jkh@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
485[04:48:20] <nvz> if you do a filesystem level copy you gotta
update fstab, grub, etc..
486[04:48:32] <nvz> if you do a block level copy you gotta grow
partitions..
487[04:48:48] <ryouma> hmm
488[04:48:54] <nvz> it just seemed quicker to install a base,
copy the package list and data
489[04:49:57] <nvz> there is less technical debt in a fresh
install and migrating /etc/ and /home/
490[04:50:29] <nvz> and a base install is quick and easy to do..
then just import the package list and let it go
491[04:51:04] <ryouma> but to me fstab and stuff is
straightforward (grub is NOT but i have it figured out in a script)
while figuring out what packages YOU installed and replicating that
is ... i have no idea what the right thing to do is there; there are
many solutions iwth aptitude search that don't seem to get at
what YOU installed.
492[04:51:23] <nvz> dpkg, apt clone?
493[04:51:25] <dpkg> nvz: I give up, what is it?
494[04:51:31] <nvz> dpkg, dpkg clone?
495[04:51:33] <dpkg> nvz: KCI error, or a problem with the
Keyboard-Chair Interface.
496[04:51:40] <ryouma> i looked at that also, and wasn't
impressed
519[04:59:15] <ryouma> i once did a whole bunch of stuff to
store package lists and figure out ancestors and stuff but never did
anything with it because i couldn't figure out which was
canonical
529[05:05:51] <ryouma> well if it clarifies, i wasn't
impressed was more just saying i didn't figure it out tot he
point of confidence that it would solve the problem better than the
aptitude stuff i was also trying. it is of course impressive that it
exists, deals with expired packages, etc.
530[05:07:41] <ryouma> i also wanted small files to store
563[05:20:27] <annadane> if you installed a desktop via the
installer, then it's task-something, like if you installed
debian with xfce, then it's task-xfce-desktop, you can apt show
task-xfce-desktop to see what it installed and selectively remove
stuff
636[06:41:35] <Randolf> The GUI installer has exactly the same
problem. Is it possible to use the Debian installer to partition
disks? This is the error I keep getting: Error while deleting the
logical volume. The logical volume root on debian-vg could not be
deleted.
637[06:42:22] <Randolf> /var/log/syslog: partman-lvm: Cannot
activate LVs in VG debian-vg while PVs appear on duplicate devices.
642[06:46:35] <tomreyn> Randolf: sometimes after repartitioning
you may have to reboot and restart the installer, especially if you
finished partitioning but then decide to repartition
643[06:47:51] <tomreyn> another option is to boot from a live
system first and do the partitioning there, then make sure the first
1024 bytes of each partition are zeroed.
651[06:50:44] <ryouma> is there an apt-mark
showmanual-oh-and-also-show-stuff-that-was-installed-forever-ago-like-basicallly-core-stuff-oh-and-whatever-changes-occurred-since-then-in-various-dist-upgrades-kthkxbye?
662[06:54:58] <ryouma> although right now it is telling me to
remove " libasound2-plugins Use 'apt autoremove' to
remove it." but apt autoremove does not do so.
663[06:57:57] <tomreyn> apt --purge autoremove
664[06:58:10] <tomreyn> oops, sorry, wrong window
665[06:58:41] <ryouma> i figured out that i have to supply the
packatge name
666[06:58:59] <ryouma> also i found out that apt assumes that
youa re not running in emacs shell mode
668[07:00:25] <Randolf> tomreyn: Thanks, the "dd" tool
was there, fortunately, so I was able to get the drives cleared and
get RAID1 configured. The prompts are confusing, but I think I got
it all working and with LVM now. Thanks!
670[07:01:34] *** Quits: tyranny12 (~blarg@replaced-ip) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
671[07:02:39] <tomreyn> Randolf: you can also manually install
some software from the shell prompt of a running debian-installer
system, but you'd need to know the path to the package and be
able to use it on a command line. parted it available, for example.
673[07:03:37] <Randolf> Thanks tomreyn. The problem is that a
previous attempted installation occurred with the on-board RAID
controller, which I just found out is not a real RAID controller.
688[07:24:49] <annadane> is links/links2/lynx the same?
689[07:25:08] <Randolf> annadane: No, they're different
programs.
690[07:28:52] <annadane> oh i see, links2 has "graphical
support" that links doesn't
691[07:29:04] <annadane> and lynx is a "web client"
and not "web browser", whatever that means
692[07:29:45] <Randolf> Lynx is also a web browser.
693[07:30:22] <Randolf> Lynx works in text mode, just like Links
does. No graphics, and each take different approaches to rendering
web pages on text-only screens.
694[07:30:28] *** Quits: itamarst (uid165457@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
697[07:35:55] <Randolf> Each has its advantages and
disadvantages, so I find it's good to have both available.
698[07:39:01] <annadane> i've kind of always lazily just
used elinks
699[07:39:10] <ryouma> lynx can do some kind of parsing and
grabbing urls for scripts
700[07:39:17] <ryouma> at least i used it once for that
701[07:39:27] <Randolf> Cool!
702[07:39:31] <ryouma> for text i use emacs
703[07:40:52] <Randolf> Well, GRUB installs successfully when I
don't use any RAID at all. It looks like the RAID installation
b0rks the GRUB installer, so I'd say it's not ready for
production use at this point.
704[07:41:23] <Randolf> I'm going to just have to use the
second drive as a backup copy with rsync maintaining it like a
mirror.
734[07:55:13] <Randolf> For regular end-user workstations,
Ubuntu Desktop is fine. Although, I do find the Debian colour scheme
in the GUI to be a lot more to my liking (plus it looks more
suitable for a corporate environment).
736[07:56:17] * nvz doesn't know what NetPlan is, but ubuntu
sucks :P
737[07:57:26] <Randolf> NetPlan is the abomination that replaces
ifupdown, and it's forced on all Ubuntu Desktop and Ubuntu
Server users nowadays. It holds all the configuration settings in a
YAML file, and it has some problems with IPv6 support.
739[07:58:01] <Randolf> I have a set of instructions that I
follow to install ifupdown on Ubuntu and then remove NetPlan. This
makes life a lot easier for system administration.
744[07:59:55] <Randolf> Oh yeah, I have no complaints about
YAML. I just don't like it for configuring network interfaces,
bridging, VPNs, routing, and all that good stuff.
745[08:00:31] <Randolf> Of course, it could have been worse --
they could have used XML.
747[08:02:09] <Randolf> One of the things I really love about
Unix and Linux is that simple text files, which are nearly all
stored under the /etc/ directory, are used to configure everything.
No central Windows Registry that is a complete and utter mess to
deal with that sometimes changes mysteriously. It just works, and it
works consistently and reliably, which is how computers should be.
748[08:02:33] <nvz> Randolf: so in other words, you're new?
749[08:02:36] <Randolf> Heck, even WINE stores all the Windows
Registry stuff in plain ASCII text files. This makes it extremely
easy to edit.
751[08:03:57] <nvz> Randolf: apparently you never heard of
things like gconf, dconf, gsettings..
752[08:04:09] <Randolf> nvz: I'm new to Debian. I've
been using Ubuntu for about a year or so after Windows 10 repeatedly
b0rked itself into blue screens (my only regret was not switching to
Ubuntu earlier because everything works so much faster, including
Adobe Photoshop that loads in under 10 seconds in Linux vs. ~5
minutes in Windows, and web browsers with hundreds of tabs
re-opening at start that takes less than 1 second in Linux vs. 2-3
minutes in Windows).
753[08:04:26] <nvz> looks very much like the windows registry,
just more organized and easy to understand
754[08:04:46] <Randolf> nvz: Before Linux, I've been using
NetBSD for somewhere in the ballpark of 15-20 years. Before that, it
was Novell NetWare.
755[08:04:59] <Randolf> I've actually heard of those tools,
but I haven't used them.
756[08:05:56] <Randolf> I prefer FAR Manager / Midnight
Commander, which make it so easy for me to manage configuration
files, administer the file system, and so much more. Command-line
stuff is good for me too as I type ~140 WPM.
757[08:06:01] <nvz> they store their settings in a large binary
file and the tools look an aweful lot like regedit
758[08:06:44] <Randolf> On servers I've not encountered
that, but the servers I set up (NetBSD, Ubuntu Server, Debian)
don't have any GUI -- it's all text-only because a GUI
simply isn't needed.
759[08:06:54] <Randolf> Perhaps those are GUI-specific tools?
760[08:07:20] <nvz> they are used by gui stuffs..
761[08:08:26] *** Quits: daniel_gc (~daniel_gc@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
762[08:08:30] <Randolf> Ah, okay. Yeah, I do very little with
the GUI. Where I use the GUI most is on my laptop, but mostly use
FAR Manager for everything. GNOME's File Manager is awful.
763[08:08:58] <Randolf> Well, it's not awful, it's
just too simple.
782[08:12:36] <nvz> I got it in 2008 and then CompTIA contacted
me to help them with the new 2009 cert they were drafting, and I got
that one for free too
783[08:13:03] <nvz> theirs is based on SLES which I've
never used
784[08:13:30] <nvz> I'm not even sure what it stands for :P
785[08:13:36] <nvz> dpkg, SLES?
786[08:13:37] <dpkg> wish i knew, nvz
787[08:13:43] <nvz> yeah, that makes one of us
788[08:13:57] <nvz> Suse Linux Enterprise Server would be my
guess
789[08:14:05] <BazookaTooth> comptia certs expire every 3 years.
you have to either get a higher cert or do cpe courses. waste of
money
790[08:14:06] <Randolf> I have a CNA which is a Certified
NetWare Administrator certificate. I was tested on NetWare 3.11. It
didn't expire, but then Novell tried to retroactively change
that so that it does expire (they started doing that after Microsoft
started retroactively expiring their certs), so I told their legal
department that I reject their retroactive change. After some
back-and-forth they decided to not do the retroactive expiries.
791[08:14:14] <auscompgeek> nvz: that sounds about right
792[08:14:54] *** Quits: Papin (~papin@replaced-ip) (Quit: An error has occured)
793[08:15:15] <Randolf> What would happen if a Ph.D. was to
expire? Those who worked hard to earn their degrees would scream
bloody murder. I feel that computer technicians were stupid not to
scream bloody murder when certs were starting to expire -- to me,
they're not worth anything if they expire.
794[08:15:48] <Randolf> Add the year to the post-nomials if you
have to, but if they're going to expire then they're not
worth even 1/10 of what they're selling them for.
835[09:12:49] <LACampbell> I have an issue where sound plays for
a second or two then switches off. all the alsamixer levels remain
stable. alsamixer reports a soundcard is there. any ideas at all?
837[09:15:01] <RandolfR> LACampbell: Do you have multiple
speakers? Check your "Sound" settings to make sure that
you're set to use the correct Output device.
838[09:16:13] <LACampbell> RandolfR: all output devices are
unmuted. and the sound does play for a second, then sometimes pipes
up again
839[09:16:21] <LACampbell> though it looks like a deep kernel
issue
975[11:58:12] <goofball64> Should I set a root password or leave
it blank?
976[11:58:54] <SpeedyG> goofball64: I usually dont set a root
password, but keep a very strong user-password where the user can
sudo into any root command.. but that's just a choice imho
982[12:00:38] <dpkg> well, alternatives is the way Debian
manages multiple applications with the same function. For more info,
man update-alternatives. Have a look at the galternatives package or
ask me about <update-alternatives> <java alternatives>.
replaced-url
1036[12:50:22] <anddam> howdy, I am in a WLAN with macOS systems
that publish their mnemonic names, I figure the protocol is mDNS.
What do I need on my Debian 9 in order to be able to resolve
foo.local to the ip address of system identifying itself as
"foo"?
1046[12:56:10] <Miles8of9> in good old times we used samba to
access resources shared on the lan by windows machines... now
windows 10 does not samba anymore... so....?
1098[13:25:26] <rudi_s> Delta706: X11 has several ways to give
you access to additional symbols, e.g. the compose key. For example
`setxkbmap -option compose:ralt us` and then using ralt-a should
generate an ä.
1127[13:41:33] <not_a_snail> Currently installing Debian 3.0r6 on
my Pentium 4 PC. It's been great.
1128[13:42:20] <not_a_snail> I hate how people say it was a pain
to install, it's easy, just partition the disks with cfdisk,
then proceed. I'm going to enjoy GNOME and KDE and Mozilla (not
Firefox) v1.
1129[13:43:09] <ratrace> if you can get online at all
1130[13:44:12] <not_a_snail> I'll have to install the Intel
Gigabit Linux drivers because the intelge driver didn't install
properly during install; why didn't I pick the final revision?
1131[13:44:37] <ratrace> and if you do... you probably won't
be able to browse any https site
1132[13:44:46] <not_a_snail> I know, it's for fun.
1133[13:45:34] <not_a_snail> The PC I'm typing this on is
running Debian 10. Never had a problem with it, apart from
ftp.au.debian.org not being updated regularly compared to
deb.debian.org
1137[13:47:26] <not_a_snail> Only have to update 2 packages on my
main Debian 10 system. I wonder how much I'll have to install
to go from Debian 3.0->Debian 10.
1184[14:09:31] <not_a_snail> The intel ethernet drivers say when
making "Linux kernel source not found".
1185[14:11:40] <petn-randall> not_a_snail: Debian woody has been
out of support for more than a decade now, so you're pretty
much on your own.
1186[14:11:42] <spacebug^> not_a_snail: This is a support channel
for *stable* version of Debian. That is Stretch and Buster. Other
things are offtopic
1187[14:12:04] <BazookaTooth> trolling anyway
1188[14:12:50] <not_a_snail> I'm well aware that it's
dead, but I find it interesting.
1189[14:13:03] <not_a_snail> I'll look for a guide on it on
tldp
1190[14:13:17] <not_a_snail> The stuff on there is horribly
outdated (2000s)
1192[14:13:47] <petn-randall> not_a_snail: It sure is
interesting, but not really suitable for #debian. It's best if
you move this to #debian-offtopic.
1193[14:13:47] <not_a_snail> The text looks crisp on my CRT
anyway.
1222[14:30:12] <openbsdtai123> hello debian world, I just
installed DEBIAN TESTING, and I get a black screen of death after
reboot on intel notebook. I would like to share with you that the
default is not so great at all.
1223[14:30:46] <openbsdtai123> I can give you a better kernel.
1224[14:30:54] *** Quits: RoCkStArDeViL (uid215198@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
1225[14:31:42] <petn-randall> !testing
1226[14:31:43] <dpkg> Testing is a continuously updated release
between <stable> and <unstable>, currently codenamed
<bullseye>. See
replaced-url
1227[14:32:07] <petn-randall> openbsdtai123: Testing is not a
stable release, and as such supported in a different channel. See
above ^^^
1228[14:32:21] <openbsdtai123> yeah, but stable is same issue.
1229[14:32:33] <openbsdtai123> I would expect that the kernel can
handle default notebook.
1230[14:32:58] *** Quits: chet (~chet@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
1231[14:33:05] <openbsdtai123> I tried about a year ago and 6
months ago, and the kernel failed iwth video intel.
1232[14:33:26] <petn-randall> openbsdtai123: You can remove the
'quiet' option from grub and see what error you get during
boot.
1233[14:34:15] <openbsdtai123> it is 5.3 non working, I have a
4.9 working kernel.
1236[14:35:05] <openbsdtai123> the pc is a asus r206, a sort of
eee
1237[14:35:56] <petn-randall> openbsdtai123: As I said, if you
remove the quiet option from grub, you should see an error during
boot which you can share with us.
1238[14:36:31] <openbsdtai123> furtheromre, the testing debian
installer did not update the Grub (on the mbr).... :(
1240[14:37:10] <openbsdtai123> there is no grub.cfg changed that
happened by default install :(
1241[14:37:20] <openbsdtai123> I will let you know with non quiet
1242[14:37:38] <petn-randall> !testing installer
1243[14:37:38] <dpkg> Repeat after me: the testing installer is
for testing the <installer>, not for installing
<testing>. To install testing, do a minimal installation using
the <stable> installer and ask me about
<stable->testing>. Installer bugs should be filed against
the debian-installer pseudopackage.
replaced-url
1244[14:38:02] <openbsdtai123> well, the testing installer does
the same behavior as the stable, i might be wrong.
1246[14:38:07] <openbsdtai123> I tried stable last time.
1247[14:38:22] <B|ack0p> is there usefull app to see disk user
analyse?
1248[14:38:25] <petn-randall> openbsdtai123: ^^^ given that the
testing installer is of alpha quality, this doesn't surprise
me. Though I installed testing fine with the testing installer just
two weeks ago.
1249[14:38:27] <B|ack0p> like in gnome or ubuntu
1250[14:38:33] <B|ack0p> disk user analyser
1251[14:38:48] <openbsdtai123> it seems that the boot with
networking of debian testing takes ages...
1252[14:38:49] <petn-randall> B|ack0p: If it's packaged for
Ubuntu, it's likely also packaged for Debian.
1253[14:39:08] <petn-randall> openbsdtai123: Let's analyze
one problem at a time, please.
1254[14:39:13] <openbsdtai123> ahh I removed quiet, but I get
black screen.
1255[14:39:26] <openbsdtai123> So I cannot tell what s going on
with the default debian testnig.
1256[14:39:37] <B|ack0p> i wish i knew the name of the package
1257[14:40:00] <openbsdtai123> petn-randall: usually, testing
worked at least. ... :(
1297[14:49:25] <petn-randall> openbsdtai123: If you want to try
stable, you get support in here, on testing you get support on the
other channel. You just have to pick one and then go to the right
channel.
1298[14:50:08] <openbsdtai123> Ok, i will install stable to prove
it to you ... Here we go, let's get stable iso .
1299[14:50:37] <openbsdtai123> give me 5 min...
1300[14:51:01] <pingfloyd> got all the time in the world. IRC
never closes.
1302[14:51:35] <Jmabsd> what arguments should i give
"cryptsetup" inside "busybox" (simple boot
shell) to unlock my system disk?
1303[14:52:23] <Jmabsd> i basically want it to do the whole
standard automatic unlock that it does on boot normally. in this
case i think i typed in things 9 times and for this reason boot
failed to busybox.
1304[14:52:32] <pingfloyd> cryptsetup luksOpen /dev/sdXY name
1305[14:52:39] <pingfloyd> assuming you're using luks
1306[14:52:41] <Jmabsd> cool. what should "name" be?
1307[14:52:46] <Jmabsd> i guess..
1308[14:52:54] <pingfloyd> whatever you want to name the mapped
device
1309[14:52:57] <openbsdtai123> I am download iso cd debian 10.2.0
i386 netinst.iso , is this the default stable debian `???
1314[14:53:24] <pingfloyd> if you gave the name mycrypt
1315[14:54:12] <pingfloyd> but if you have lines like
/dev/mapper/<name> inside say your /etc/fstab, it might be
more convenient to use that name instead
1332[14:59:52] <dpkg> amd64 is the Debian architecture optimized
for x86-64, aka AMD64. Intel Core 2, Core i3/i5/i7 and Xeon (since
2004) systems are x86-64. The AMD64 architecture also supports
running Debian i386 with either a -686-pae or -amd64 kernel. See
also <why amd64> and <why not amd64>.
1333[15:00:03] <petn-randall> why amd64
1334[15:00:07] <petn-randall> !why amd64
1335[15:00:07] <dpkg> The Debian architecture that runs on 64-bit
processors from AMD and Intel is called "amd64" because
the architecture was first developed by AMD. AMD64 is variously
known as x86-64, x64, IA-32e, EM64T and Intel 64 (most of which are
the Intel marketing people changing their mind).
replaced-url
1388[15:35:49] <Bushmaster> is it possible to transfer some of my
files from one of my computers to another computer's external
hard drive (external hard drive is attached to that computer via USB
port of course)
1389[15:37:05] <openbsdtai123> mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt ; cp -a XXXX
/mnt/ ; umount /mnt
1406[15:41:17] <marduk> Bushmaster: if both computers connected
to same local network and ftpd is configured on one side at least
you can do it
1407[15:41:24] <Bushmaster> marduk, can you help me, all it is, I
have files I need to transfer to my other machine which is actually
running Apache server, the other machine is USB ported with external
hard drive where all my files are located and apache serve them via
netowrk both locall and externally, i want to transfer my files that
i have in my Debian desktop into that hard drive without
disconnecting that hard drive and connect it to my debian desktop,
basically
1408[15:41:25] <Bushmaster> via network
1409[15:42:03] <Bushmaster> both computers are connected to modem
yes and both computers run Apache
1410[15:42:38] <Bushmaster> BazookaTooth, do you know how to do
it
1411[15:42:38] <openbsdtai123> next, i boot with ext pendrive ...
let s see your stable kernel...
1412[15:43:00] <Bushmaster> basically transferring file to other
machine via network
1414[15:44:23] <marduk> Bushmaster: you should have mc on one
side at least and ftpd on other then mc have option ftp link you
connect with your remote username and password and thats all you can
transfer files
1415[15:45:26] <Bushmaster> marduk, sounds good, I kind of grasp
the underlying mechanism but I need to go one step at a time, can
you take me through the steps
1422[15:47:53] <Bushmaster> yes I am utilizing rasp pi to access
all my media (over thousands movies) from that notebook computer
that runs Apache of course media are in external hard drive but
Apache access it from there, what I did in Librelec Kodi is simply
plugged in my local IP address and all media showed up
1423[15:48:01] <openbsdtai123> it is not black screen under
stable ;)
1424[15:48:03] <openbsdtai123> cool !!
1425[15:48:20] <B|ack0p> actually it is black under stable :p
1426[15:48:41] <B|ack0p> i mean stable debian 10 :p
1427[15:49:41] *** Quits: co_dws_ (~co_aja@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1428[15:50:07] <openbsdtai123> I install xinit xterm ctwm cube2
xdemineur menu ; note xfreecell is missing ;) could you add it?
1429[15:50:08] <Bushmaster> marduk, if you could help me, i would
greatly appreciate
1433[15:50:54] <marduk> Bushmaster: install vsftpd on one side
1434[15:51:17] <Jmabsd> I did the Debian system upgrade (sid to
latest, something like this), then rebooted - worked. Now did
"dpkg-reconfigure console-setup", it worked. Then
rebooted. Now at the Linux kernel startup process' framebuffer
enablement step, the screen just goes blank. What do?
1435[15:51:24] <openbsdtai123> Bushmaster: I can help you if you
would write me in ps. I recommend to do over SCP the things. I
havent read in details, ebcause i cook and install cube2
1436[15:51:34] *** Quits: Malivaso (~Malivaso@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1437[15:51:42] <openbsdtai123> petn-randall: stable seems to work
better !! thank you
1438[15:51:53] <openbsdtai123> petn-randall: I noticed that
grub-install does not update grub.
1439[15:52:08] <openbsdtai123> So far your kernel is ok of
stabble amd64 4.19
1440[15:52:09] *** Quits: psilonux (~psilonux@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1441[15:52:21] *** Quits: Night-Shade (~TimF@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
1444[15:53:33] <Bushmaster> openbsdtai123, marduk is providing
solicitation, let me go ahead with marduk and you can supplement as
we consult, if things go wrong, I sure will consult you I also
seeking to gather all like minded people under the rubric of one
umbrella and i have list of nicks I want to propose to spearhead ...
1445[15:53:51] <marduk> Busmaster: then service vsftpd start
1446[15:54:17] <Bushmaster> marduk, that package you mention, you
want me to install in my Debian desktop in which I am holding the
files that I intend to transfer to my other computer remotely?
1447[15:54:19] <openbsdtai123> why not to send data over SCP ?
1448[15:55:12] <marduk> Bushmaster: better if you install this on
the side there you want to download from
1449[15:55:52] <Bushmaster> i also want to emphasis one simple
point, although I am not mentally handicap, I do have certain
limitation to utilize the full potential of Linux, in other words I
can apply process here but not fully versed in system adminstration
1451[15:56:51] <Bushmaster> okay marduk so install it in Debian
where I download my media and plan on transferring the media into
Apache notebook server right?
1452[15:57:04] <Bushmaster> the Apace notebook runs in Mint
1453[15:57:05] <openbsdtai123> gftp ?
1454[15:57:36] <nvz> Bushmaster: well, here's a lesson for
you.. Mint is not Debian :P
1456[15:58:46] <nvz> Bushmaster: and if this is all on your LAN
any ssh based method is overkill there is minidlna and samba
1457[15:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1441
1458[15:59:05] <openbsdtai123> Run debian rather than Mint.
Debian is quite common, you'll learn debian. Mint is cool too
of course, but things are different.
1461[15:59:33] <openbsdtai123> do you mean that FTP is faster
than SCP ???
1462[15:59:39] <nvz> I personally run ssh, minidlna, and samba on
my server
1463[15:59:56] <nvz> I am sayign if the point is to access media,
you want a media friendly setup
1464[16:00:20] <nvz> I for example set mine up so windows, linux,
android, etc.. can all access it
1465[16:00:43] <nvz> you're gonna have a harder time on the
client side if you use any ftp or ssh method.. its simpler to just
DLNA or Samba
1466[16:00:46] *** Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
1467[16:00:46] <nvz> or both
1468[16:01:18] <Bushmaster> openbsdtai123, marduk nvz I cannot
digest too much information at a time... my brain is defective ...
however, MINT IS THERE TO RUN MY APACHE SERVER INTO THAT OLD
NOTEBOOK AND I WILL NOT CHANGE IT NOW
1469[16:01:26] <openbsdtai123> what is DLNA ??? new proto
1470[16:01:49] <nvz> its a media protocol developed I believe by
apple for itunes
1471[16:02:04] <nvz> everything that does media supports it..
PS3, PS4, Xbox, android, Kodi, you name it
1472[16:02:09] <openbsdtai123> this is complete junk then for
Unix
1473[16:02:18] <openbsdtai123> unix uses ftp and ssh
1474[16:02:21] <marduk> Bushmaster:if you did this then you can
can connect using mc from other side and copy your files as you copy
frome one folder to another
1475[16:02:30] <nvz> we're not talking about unix,
we're talking about media
1476[16:02:51] <nvz> and minidlna is incredibly small,
lightweight, and simple to configure on both ends its UPNP
1477[16:03:00] <openbsdtai123> you cannot recommend the guy to
use APPLE crap onto an Unix-like system. this is heresy
1478[16:03:21] <Night_Elf> Actually havng this dlna implemented
seems like a lot of fun
1479[16:03:36] <Bushmaster> marduk, okay, so you want me to
install vstpd in my Debian desktop and telling me you can take me
through the process to transfer a file from Debian desktop to my
Mint running Apache Running old notebook ?
1480[16:03:37] <nvz> you are totally missing the point this user
is confessing not being a server admin, and they dont even know the
difference between mint and debian
1481[16:04:14] <nvz> Bushmaster: what does Apache have to do with
any of this? Apache is a Web Server
1482[16:04:15] <openbsdtai123> you are recommending almost non
opensource software? It cannot be, debian is opensource.
1488[16:04:32] <marduk> Bushmaster: Apache is no sense
1489[16:04:41] <openbsdtai123> apple yes
1490[16:04:46] <nvz> there are a bunch of DLNA things in debian,
its not closed source..
1491[16:04:57] <nvz> it was developed FOR itunes, its not itunes
1492[16:05:01] <Bushmaster> I have never used Apple computer in
my life, I used MS DOS back in early 90s and then windows for few
and then boycott windows cos of their labor ethics which I do not
agree and got into open source
1494[16:05:24] <nvz> the point I am only going to re-iterate one
last time.. is that DLNA is FOR MEDIA and ALL MEDIA PLAYERS already
support it
1495[16:06:06] <Bushmaster> so marduk my friend, can we go ahead
one step at a time
1496[16:06:09] <nvz> they not only already support it but they
AUTOMATICALLY configure it.. cause its UPNP
1497[16:06:13] <openbsdtai123> sorry but this is apple, here you
are at #debian not #apple
1498[16:06:24] <openbsdtai123> you should advocate FTP . point ..
or samba rather.
1499[16:06:42] <openbsdtai123> FTP is everywhere. it is this
years 50 years old proto.
1500[16:06:44] <nvz> openbsdtai123: you are just being incredibly
dense.. we support UEFI here, its made by microsoft
1501[16:06:47] <openbsdtai123> Android have FTP applications.
1502[16:06:52] <marduk> Bushmaster: there is nothing difficult to
simply install vsftpd package on side where is your files, then
start service and connect from other side with mc
1503[16:06:56] <nvz> I could give you countless other examples
1504[16:07:04] <nvz> this isn't about purism, its about
simplicity
1505[16:07:26] <Bushmaster> what is mc? marduk
1506[16:07:32] <nvz> you're expecting a user who has
confessed not knowing what they're doing to learn complicated
protocols and client setups
1507[16:07:38] <Night_Elf> Bushmaster: did you try to use scp, as
indicated a bit earlier ?
1508[16:07:46] <nvz> I'm gonna wander off now, you guys have
fun confusing this user
1509[16:08:25] <Bushmaster> Night_Elf, the problem at the moment
I am having is too many good solicitations but not sure which one I
should follow
1510[16:08:28] <marduk> Bushmaster: mc is midnight commander it
is file manager, you can install it sudo apt install mc
1512[16:08:33] <openbsdtai123> simplicity means to go use apple.
No, there are respectful ideas behind debian and opensource. people
worked on it before you.
1515[16:09:52] <Bushmaster> marduk, if you kindly help me through
the process from cradle to grave, I will appreciate, hence first
step, in my Debian, you want me to install vsftpd
1516[16:09:56] <Night_Elf> Bushmaster: The scp is probably the
easiest. Imagine it like a 'cp' that can copy from one
host, to another in the network. All you need is to have sshd
installed in the remote machine. And of course, the credentials of
the user there.
1517[16:10:50] <Bushmaster> Night_Elf, let me carry out marduk
advice and if I find it hard, I will get to you
1519[16:11:05] <Night_Elf> The file ownwership that will be
copied on the remote machine, will be the one that you will use of
the user that you will specify in the process.
1520[16:11:13] <Bushmaster> okay marduk I am gonna do it now
1555[16:22:48] <nvz> you're always gonna be unsure what to
do next when you're using vastly overly complicated application
stacks for what your needs are
1558[16:23:35] <Bushmaster> marduk, i dont see anything called
left, its a blue screen , at the very top I have File, Edit, Search,
Help and below that and after pressing F9, it popped File, Edit,
Search, Command etc as mentioned above, at the bottom it has Help,
Save, Mark, Replace etc, sounds intimidating
1559[16:23:36] <joepublic> even novice computer users can learn
just the features of their particular workflow.
1560[16:23:48] <nvz> more background was required before proper
advise could be given, but at least my spitball idea was zeroconf
and upnp
1562[16:24:51] *** Quits: f4bi0 (~f4bi0@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1563[16:24:56] <Night_Elf> mc should look like that
1564[16:25:09] <nvz> I still don't see what apache has to do
with all this.. near as I can tell the question was about media..
and if you want media over http, there are far simpler approaches to
that as well
1568[16:26:12] <nvz> Bushmaster: can you back up and explain what
your goal is and what apache has to do with this?
1569[16:26:26] <nvz> Bushmaster: apache is a very bloated and
complicated web server.. that you probably do not need
1570[16:26:49] <Night_Elf> Bushmaster: What marduk is saying,
that basically, you install a ftp server at the remote machine, and
then use mc as a ftp client on the local machine, to transfer files
1576[16:27:51] <Bushmaster> okay nvz I have a old notebook
machine which I have converted as Media Server basically meaning it
has Apache installed, it is connected to a USB ported SATA Dock Hard
Drive which holds most of my media (movies, etc) and Apache serve it
to my large TV via Rasp Pi Librelelect Kodi in which I declared my
IP address
1577[16:27:55] <nvz> sounds like this is all on a LAN and the
resting place of the files is on a pi being used as a NAS..
transferring files just to use them is pointless
1582[16:28:29] <Bushmaster> now, for me to continue the server, I
need to add stuffs and i want to add stuffs without disconnecting
that hard drive and put it in Debian machine where I have my media
1586[16:29:09] <nvz> Bushmaster: you can literally just mount
that sever location on debian and use it like a regular local
directory
1587[16:29:15] <Bushmaster> marduk, I do not see anything called
left in that screen and I am getting bit tired cos many peopke
directing many advice
1588[16:29:35] <nvz> Bushmaster: sshfs or nfs would be
drastically simpler but neither is required if you use a Desktop
Environment with a GUI filemanager
1589[16:29:36] <joepublic> Bushmaster, nvz is giving the best
advice imo
1590[16:29:58] <Night_Elf> Bushmaster: well, apache is a
webserver. It CAN serve media, like what you download from a website
that has a, say, file.mp4 there in some link. But in itself, apache
is not a media server.
1591[16:29:58] <Bushmaster> right okay i will go with nvz
1592[16:29:59] <nvz> I for example use MATE, and MATE's file
manager, caja has all this built in already
1593[16:30:20] <nvz> you need only go to File>Connect To
Server in caja
1595[16:30:53] <Bushmaster> so can nvz take me through the steps
one at a time
1596[16:31:03] <nvz> Bushmaster: what are you running on the
client side?
1597[16:31:10] <Bushmaster> marduk, tried and now i am in the
middle of some blue screen in mc which means nothing
1598[16:31:23] <nvz> Bushmaster: in the debian box are you just
using GNOME?
1599[16:31:28] *** Quits: janik (~jrabe@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1600[16:31:40] <Bushmaster> well if client means where media
files is in my Debian and i want to transfer it to notebook, then I
am running Debian
1601[16:31:55] <marduk> you can even open your web browser and
type your addres ftp://username@ip
1602[16:31:59] <Bushmaster> yes GNOme I think nvz
1603[16:32:16] <nvz> dpkg, which de
1604[16:32:16] <dpkg> To figure out which Desktop Environment you
are using, open a terminal and type the following command: `echo
$XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP` see also <which dm> <which x>.
1605[16:32:30] <nvz> Bushmaster: try that command to be certain
1608[16:33:07] <nvz> if its gnome then you already have nautilus,
which has capability for ftp, sftp, samba, webdav, etc all built in
1609[16:33:10] <Bushmaster> marduk, do not take it wrong, but
your advice has not really solved my issue, its stuck in the middle
of something and I do not see any left or anything and other people
advising me other stuffs hence getting more cofused
1610[16:33:26] <marduk> Bushmaster: open your web browser and
type ftp://username@ip
1611[16:33:33] <Night_Elf> marduk: I suspect for some reason,
there's something wrong with his mc
1612[16:33:49] <Bushmaster> marduk, which IP?
1613[16:34:24] <marduk> Bushmaster username for your debian
machine and ip of your debian machine
1629[16:35:52] <nvz> they probably already have software to do
this that they already know how to use
1630[16:36:25] <nvz> if I could get a clear picture of whats
going on, I could've made a damn screencast by now
1631[16:36:25] <marduk> Bushmaster: now you should be prompted
for password, and then it will show your files
1632[16:37:44] <Bushmaster> marduk, its not coming up with
anything, instead its carry on trying to locate that page
1633[16:38:17] <nvz> Bushmaster: this is not going to do what you
want anyhow.. you want to SEND files to the server.. this will only
let you GET files
1634[16:38:51] <Bushmaster> nvz, that marduk just wasted lot of
my energy
1635[16:39:01] <Bushmaster> marduk, leave it dude i will go ahead
with others advice
1636[16:39:16] <nvz> Bushmaster: I am making a screencast of
accessing my server both in MATE and in GNOME
1637[16:39:47] <marduk> Bushmaster: you just type
ftp://username@ip thats all\
1638[16:39:53] <Bushmaster> nvz, you sound confident what you
doing, if you can help me as I am not fluent in these, i will
appreciate it
1668[16:51:00] *** Quits: fflori (~fflori@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1669[16:51:11] <nvz> Bushmaster: now my server the ssh is running
on a non-standard port so I changed the port number when I set it
up.. you wouldnt have to do that
1671[16:52:04] *** Quits: bart2020 (~bart2020@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1672[16:52:12] <nvz> Bushmaster: you probably already have ssh on
the server, but if you dont all you'd have to do is install
that, the client side you already have what you need
1769[17:44:23] <Bushmaster> nvz, that dude just wasted me tie
1770[17:44:28] <Bushmaster> time nvz
1771[17:44:45] <marduk> :D
1772[17:45:11] <Bushmaster> well ssh is installed in mint server
yes but it comes with sh*it massage nvz let me see i can send you
private from that machine in IRC
1773[17:45:22] <Devastator> if I use a livecd to download and
flash a firmware to a device, where it stores the download?
1774[17:45:46] <Bushmaster> have you received a hello from me nvz
in private
1783[17:48:04] <Bushmaster> nvz, did you receive my private hello
from mint machine
1784[17:48:11] <nvz> Bushmaster: yes and I responded
1785[17:49:21] <jhutchins> Bushmaster: We prefer to do our
troubleshooting here in the channel so that anyone can contribute
and correct errors, but you are in the wrong channel.
1786[17:49:26] <jhutchins> Bushmaster: We do not support mint.
1832[18:20:00] <Jmabsd> how do you debug when Debian, upgraded
two reboots ago and just did console settings to set console font,
dies at the kernel's switch to framebuffer console, at boot?
1834[18:21:43] <openbsdtai123> nvz: who is the mod of this
channel? Do you agree if Bushmaster is out of the channel #debian
for violences ("insult to someone")?
1839[18:23:11] <nvz> openbsdtai123: you're speaking to a
nearly 20 year user and supporter of debian.. and I think
you're the one being an arse if you must know
1840[18:23:45] <joepublic> you might say something like: !ops
openbsdtai123 attacking another user
1852[18:25:19] <joepublic> I mean the ops can take care of their
own channel, and if he insults you somewhere else, such in private
message, the way to deal with it is not to go attack him in a
channel.
1857[18:27:03] *** RandolfR is now known as Randolf
1858[18:27:57] <marduk> some people just verry hard to help, but
this is no reason to ban
1859[18:27:59] <Jmabsd> can i force legacy 80x25 console somehow?
(booting to the older kernel works)
1860[18:28:00] <joepublic> in the channel, my experience is that
they get many lenient warnings and some eventually are removed. How
do I deal with someone being mean to someone else somewhere else,
where I am not? The answer is, I am not involved.
1861[18:28:10] <Jmabsd> joepublic: boot doesn't go so far ..
1862[18:28:15] <openbsdtai123> I have helped in a very clean way
the person, with top quality answers and suppport.
1863[18:28:28] <joepublic> openbsdtai123, well, you're kind
of being a jerk in here.
1864[18:28:35] <ratrace> agreed
1865[18:28:46] <nkuttler> openbsdtai123: nobody is intersted in
your drama, please contact the ops about it
1866[18:29:56] <joepublic> it might make you feel better to
pastebin the exchange, if the other user involved were to agree,
such that anyone who is interested could go read it and others could
just ignore it. How's that?
1889[18:36:42] <Bushmaster> joepublic, marduk nkuttler ratrace
that dude openbsdtai123 poses some psychological issue, she (I would
say its she) could seek help from shrink ...
1938[18:57:50] <Jmabsd> just curious, using which command do you
ascertain that your Debian install is the very latest one? e.g.,
check in /etc/apt/sources.list that you're using the latest
version (now: buster), and then do aptitude upgrade; aptitude update
to ensure all latest updates have been installed??
1942[19:01:33] <rudi_s> Jmabsd: You have to manually check that
/etc/apt/sources.list lists the latest Debian release, then apt
update; apt upgrade will tell you if there are any pending updates.
1943[19:01:48] <Jmabsd> umm, which is the web site which says
which is the latest stable version of Debian.. wikipedia?? err
1957[19:06:30] <RazWelles> How do I go about learning where dpkg
puts everything and what files and folders it uses? I've had it
break a few times on me and I want to learn how to clean it up
manually rather than wipe my system and start over
1958[19:06:43] <RazWelles> (a very bad approach I know)
1959[19:07:07] <rudi_s> Jmabsd: Do you want to automate this?
Why?
1960[19:07:32] <Jmabsd> rudi_s: no, just thought it's a bit
comical there's no page on debian.org that says it
1961[19:09:28] <rudi_s> Jmabsd: Yeah, it's not really said
.. -> "Getting Debian" and look at the installer links
is one possibility.
1971[19:12:24] *** Quits: hemimaniac (~hemimania@replaced-ip) (Quit: Gotta go, Wife voluntold me to do something)
1972[19:13:03] <joepublic> seems like the name could be a little
more prominent. like a box on the front page with "Current
stable version: 10.x 'Buster'"
2000[19:23:32] <Jmabsd> which of "aptitude" and
"apt" do you prefer, why?
2001[19:23:59] <Jmabsd> should "aptitude upgrade" here
be preceded by "aptitude update", it should shouldn't
it?
2002[19:24:15] <joepublic> It should, yes. I prefer apt; I only
use aptitude when I have a dependency problem because aptitude can
give you multiple solutions.
2003[19:24:47] <marduk> safe-upgrade? full-upgrade? I know only
dist-upgrade what is the difference?
2024[19:30:15] <joepublic> apt is recommended over aptitude.
2025[19:30:19] <Jmabsd> so why not just use it ??
2026[19:30:20] <Jmabsd> why?
2027[19:30:28] <joepublic> you can use it if you want.
2028[19:30:31] <joze> I dislike installing with aptitude, maybe I
am clumsy
2029[19:30:43] <jhutchins> !why aptitude
2030[19:30:43] <dpkg> aptitude has more advanced
conflict/dependency resolution and will often find a solution where
apt-get gives up. It can be used from the command line like apt-get
plus an interactive resolver makes it much easier to recover from
broken dependencies. It has advanced search capabilities (see
<aptitude search>). For some upgrades, apt-get is preferred
(e.g. <lenny->squeeze>, <squeeze->wheezy>).
replaced-url
2031[19:30:50] <joepublic> apt is designed to be friendlier,
prettier, simpler, etc.
2032[19:31:06] <jhutchins> joepublic: Not recommended for
scripting though.
2033[19:31:15] <Jmabsd> and "apt-get"??
2034[19:31:20] <SerajewelKS> apt is nano. aptitude is vim.
2035[19:31:24] <Jmabsd> "apt-get" is just a subcommand
of "apt"?
2036[19:31:29] <joepublic> And read the release notes first,
replaced-url
2037[19:31:53] <joepublic> apt-get is not part of apt, they are
two tools (toolsets) that accomplish the same job.
2038[19:32:45] <Jmabsd> sigh, aha.
2039[19:32:51] <Jmabsd> so there's *three*.
2040[19:32:53] <joepublic> apt-get is older than aptitude,
aptitude is older than apt, I believe
2041[19:33:09] <joepublic> at least three, yeah. use apt.
2042[19:33:13] <lupine> apt is best
2043[19:33:16] <SerajewelKS> apt is a reimplementation of many of
the apt-* commands into a single command. e.g. apt-get and
apt-cache, and others.
2044[19:33:18] <lupine> not least because it is shortest to type
2053[19:34:25] <SerajewelKS> i've had some cases where apt
can't do something, and others where it's easier in
aptitude. mostly i still use apt-get because nobody has given me a
compelling reason why apt is actually better other than it's
simpler to use and has a green progressbar, none of which is
important to me.
2054[19:34:34] <marduk> I always used apt-get, then I somehow
thought that apt is just shortened version of it so you type not
apt-get update but apt update... I was so wrong
2055[19:34:50] <joepublic> apt update tells me how many updates
are pending and apt-get update doesn't.
2059[19:35:43] <joepublic> if apt or apt-get are doing the job,
you never need to use aptitude
2060[19:36:07] <Jmabsd> lol.
2061[19:36:12] <SerajewelKS> openbsdtai123: aptitude has an
ncurses UI that can be very helpful for more advanced use cases,
like resolving complicated dependency issues
2062[19:36:19] <openbsdtai123> yeah... well, the common habit is
to learn graphical modes and usage, inherit of Other closed source
OSes....
2063[19:36:37] <joepublic> openbsdtai123, I present to you...
synaptic
2064[19:36:49] <openbsdtai123> SerajewelKS:
"dpkg-reconfigure -a "
2065[19:37:18] <openbsdtai123> Isnt synaptic outsdated today,
Ubuntu has the google play store like?
2073[19:38:29] <SerajewelKS> openbsdtai123: resolving dependency
issues and package configuration are two separate things
2074[19:38:47] <openbsdtai123> SerajewelKS: I guess with apt-get
/ dpkg* you can basically install well the machine and also make
fixes.
2075[19:38:58] <Jmabsd> guys seriously "virsh list"
will take its "connect" argument from *where*??
2076[19:39:03] <joepublic> aptitude can fix some really broken
things in the hands of an experienced system administrator. note
that important last part.
2077[19:39:05] <Jmabsd> does it store the last connect argument
in some file, or what
2078[19:39:09] <SerajewelKS> openbsdtai123: right. but some
dependency issues are much easier to resolve in aptitude (i've
used it on several occasions for this purpose).
2079[19:39:25] <SerajewelKS> openbsdtai123: sure you could
manually trudge through it with apt-get. you could also program in
assembly instead of C.
2080[19:39:28] <Jmabsd> SerajewelKS: dpkg-reconfigure -a is for
what?
2082[19:39:38] <SerajewelKS> Jmabsd: openbsdtai123 brought it up,
not me
2083[19:39:45] <openbsdtai123> ah ... I never got sthing broken.
I use the bare minimum : twm + xinit + xterm + clang ;)
2084[19:39:58] <joepublic> Jmabsd, if you need to
dpkg-reconfigure -a, then one of the apt* tools will tell you.
2085[19:40:07] <Jmabsd> ah.
2086[19:40:25] <Jmabsd> it's like, "go through any
specifying settings stuff that is pending"?
2087[19:40:37] <SerajewelKS> openbsdtai123: nvidia drivers in
particularly are very good at breaking apt-get's dependency
resolution because there's so many conflicts, virtual packages,
alternation dependencies, etc.
2088[19:40:42] <joepublic> yes, that's a pretty good
description
2089[19:40:45] <openbsdtai123> SerajewelKS: re-programming
apt-get, good luck, today apt-get is a big, complex machinery.
2095[19:42:38] <joepublic> that was an example of a different,
unrelated choice one might make
2096[19:42:44] <SerajewelKS> openbsdtai123: the context of that
quote was rebutting you claiming that aptitude is not necessary
because we have apt-get. i said that's like claiming assembly
is not necessary because we have C.
2097[19:42:58] <SerajewelKS> erm, C is not necessary because we
have assembly
2098[19:43:05] <openbsdtai123> SerajewelKS: ah ok.
2099[19:43:06] *** Quits: Immanuel (~Manu@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2100[19:43:18] <SerajewelKS> in specific situations, aptitude
makes things much easier than apt-get. that's my point.
2101[19:43:44] <openbsdtai123> SerajewelKS: I never used
aptitude, I can't tell.
2108[19:44:27] <SerajewelKS> i use it occasionally when i need to
install multiple packages but i don't know the exact names
ahead of time. i could search each one and build up an apt-get
command using two terminal windows. or i could open aptitude and
search a few times, marking what i want.
2109[19:44:28] <openbsdtai123> SerajewelKS: I have limited usage
of debian for games and C programming (low end). Quite low end.
2115[19:46:01] <SerajewelKS> openbsdtai123: if i want to install
five things but don't know the exact package names, i could do
that and install them one by one. or open two terminal windows and
use one to search and the other to build an apt-get line. or i could
just open aptitude and do it all at once.
2116[19:46:02] <openbsdtai123> SerajewelKS: (the fixing things,
... advantages...) ok. I will get try it for you once.
2119[19:46:43] <SerajewelKS> you can use what you want :)
2120[19:46:54] *** Quits: holden- (~holden-@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2121[19:46:57] <openbsdtai123> I see now your usage .... I
understand your needs.
2122[19:47:23] <SerajewelKS> it's just another handy tool to
have. other tools can do the same thing. some things are easier with
apt-get. others are easier with aptitude.
2123[19:47:38] <SerajewelKS> they can all do pretty much the same
stuff, just with varying degrees of difficulty
2124[19:48:07] <openbsdtai123> It seems like. It seems that
aptitude suits well your demands and needs. That's cool to
hear.
2125[19:48:29] <SerajewelKS> it does but i still usually use
apt-get. i use aptitude for particular scenarios only. i do not use
it for system upgrades.
2126[19:48:32] <openbsdtai123> What about the novell Ubuntu
package manager? Would it suit you also?
2127[19:48:50] <SerajewelKS> i don't know what that is
2128[19:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1439
2129[19:49:28] <openbsdtai123> SerajewelKS: Not necessary...
Debian is better ... ;=)
2130[19:49:36] <SerajewelKS> indeed
2131[19:50:07] <openbsdtai123> I tried last time to compile FLTK
on Ubuntu, there are missing libs... I don't know what they do
with they libs.
2201[20:22:49] <SerajewelKS> unless you're running it so
that some random programs can pretend that remote files are local,
there's usually a better way than sshfs
2202[20:22:53] <openbsdtai123> scp is the most solid (unix /
linux way) for file transfert.
2208[20:24:03] <SerajewelKS> marduk: the only real advantage FTP
has is that it's not encrypted so there is no overhead.
however, this means it can't be used safely over a WAN without
adding TLS anyway.
2209[20:24:37] <SerajewelKS> marduk: scp works using sshd which
you already have. authentication is built-in to the SSH protocol.
you don't have to install a separate FTP server and work out
authentication / user mapping.
2210[20:24:53] <openbsdtai123> I love FTP actually with ncftp,
when proftpd or other is not installed.
2211[20:25:10] *** Quits: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: conta)
2217[20:28:51] <SerajewelKS> i'm not saying it's hard
to do. i'm saying if your goal is to transfer files between two
debian systems, it's unnecessary.
2218[20:28:58] <SerajewelKS> both systems will have scp and sshd
by default.
2235[20:32:56] <nvz> SerajewelKS: this is the same user that
misdirected a newbie on such things earlier and I wound up just
getting them to use nautilus to access their server over sftp/ssh
with drag/drop using crap they already had installed
2236[20:33:15] <openbsdtai123> the advantage of SSH is the good
CPU usage, pretty efficiency and not heavy for the machine.
2237[20:33:21] <SerajewelKS> nvz: nice. sorry i missed that. :)
2238[20:33:42] <SerajewelKS> openbsdtai123: ssh is heavier than
ftp on CPU usage because of encryption. but it's still a better
option for many reasons.
2239[20:33:44] <marduk> you can also use curl but....
2240[20:33:52] <nvz> openbsdtai123: the key difference is
security, but yes it also has good compression and such and with
modern cpus it has little overhead
2246[20:34:58] <openbsdtai123> nvz: actually, the question is
interesting... we haven't much more habits than ftp, samba,
ssh/scp, nfs... there are maybe more opensource, free, methods (as
well compatible with Unix/BSD systems).
2250[20:35:45] <SerajewelKS> nvz: a big difference for me is that
it's already there on pretty much every *nix system around
(that i care about anyway)
2251[20:35:54] <nvz> openbsdtai123: nobody with any sense uses
ftp anymore.. as the factoid above points out debian stopped using
ftp for packages even over 2 years ago
2252[20:35:57] <joze> I can use the ftp protocol with my teeth
fillings overe the air ;_;
2256[20:36:52] <openbsdtai123> SSH is good security, -C -X -Y ...
bunch of possibilities, reverse ssh for workaround, ... tunnel, lot
of toys.
2257[20:37:03] <nyov> I just had my first new-year revelation!
Don't "wget keys.asc | sudo apt-key add -"!! Just
"cp keys.asc /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/myrepokeys.asc" and
they're much easier to clean up again.
2258[20:37:19] <nyov> also. ftp must die. :p
2259[20:37:42] <openbsdtai123> nyov: ftp must not die. will not
die. it is this year 50 years old
2260[20:37:46] <ryouma> um, shouldn't you vberify those keys
or something first?
2261[20:37:46] <nyov> but it's still better than smb ithink
2262[20:38:01] <nyov> ryouma: most definitely :)
2263[20:38:21] <Jmabsd> oh dear, I see now that in my dmesg,
actually the amdgpu driver *crashes* on boot
2264[20:38:38] <Jmabsd> this is likely the reason for why my
amdgpu framebuffer will not launch :-}
2265[20:38:41] <SerajewelKS> smb at least still has a use when
you need to support windows clients natively
2266[20:38:50] <SerajewelKS> there's few cases i can think
where ftp is useful
2267[20:39:18] <openbsdtai123> Jmabsd: is it on testing or stable
(tested debian)?
2268[20:39:29] <nyov> openbsdtai123: the idiosyncracy of binary
and ASCII file transfer modes is really ugly as crap
2269[20:39:30] <Jmabsd> stable
2270[20:39:45] <Jmabsd> buster, upgraded from what's the
name sid or something
2271[20:39:51] <marduk> nvz: how you do transfer files over lan
2272[20:39:56] <SerajewelKS> Jmabsd: stretch?
2273[20:40:02] <SerajewelKS> Jmabsd: sid is unstable, you cannot
"upgrade" from sid
2281[20:41:53] <SerajewelKS> marduk: this depends on the OS used
on both ends
2282[20:42:02] <ryouma> another toold besides sshfs, scp, and
rsync, if you find those nonperspicuous, is to directly use a
transfer protocol in your editor. this can include shell mode, a git
interface, etc.
2288[20:42:52] <openbsdtai123> what about the debian extra
repositories for some better kernels?
2289[20:43:14] <Jmabsd> maybe i should just keep to 4.9.0-11 as
at least it worked??
2290[20:43:34] <openbsdtai123> 4.19 is likely quite old, I have
not amdgpu I cannot say, I heard it needs more time.
2291[20:43:38] <bzed> openbsdtai123: "better"....
2292[20:43:54] <bzed> openbsdtai123: you could use the kernel
from backports if you really need something new
2293[20:44:01] <openbsdtai123> yeah backports !!
2294[20:44:12] <nvz> marduk: I don't often.. I more often
transfer over the internet.. but on my server I have samba for local
stuff, but I usually use scp/sftp regardless of if its LAN or over
the net
2295[20:44:12] <Jmabsd> Is there any reason to use 4.19??
2296[20:44:22] <Jmabsd> oh
2297[20:44:34] <openbsdtai123> 4.19 is good, very good, check
backports, it is likely helping
2298[20:44:34] <bzed> Jmabsd: 4.19 is in buster. thats it.
2299[20:44:40] <SerajewelKS> marduk: scp or rsync then. if
you're using a GUI, your desktop environment's file
browser probably supports scp with drag-and-drop.
2300[20:45:06] <Jmabsd> bzed,openbsdtai123: so i should get
"buster-backports" and then see which kernel versions are
there?
2301[20:45:07] <openbsdtai123> The software GFTP is good for
newbies
2302[20:45:09] <Jmabsd> maybe some newer?
2303[20:45:19] <marduk> SerajewelKS: I personaily on cli
2304[20:45:20] <bzed> Jmabsd: yeah, there is 5.something
2315[20:48:01] <marduk> SerajewelKS: ok, I used scp before but
came to ftp
2316[20:48:05] <SerajewelKS> marduk: rsync is more powerful and
has more options. therefore it's also a bit more daunting to
learn. generally, you at least want to provide -a to rsync.
2317[20:48:09] <ratrace> Jmabsd: I think the better question is,
is there any reason to (abandon stable and) use a newer (and
non-LTS) kernel.
2318[20:48:26] <ratrace> Unless you really need a feature from
newer kernels, I'd stick with Stable ones
2319[20:48:40] <SerajewelKS> marduk: switching from scp to ftp is
a step backwards. if you already know how to use scp then just use
scp. you do not gain anything with ftp, and you lose much.
2320[20:48:42] <Jmabsd> ratrace: well, the AMDGPU console is
*broken* on 4.19
2321[20:48:45] <Jmabsd> i can use 4.9, shall i?
2322[20:49:06] <ratrace> on buster? no, that'd be a
downgrade and abandoning stable again
2323[20:49:21] <Jmabsd> ratrace: the only way then is, use 4.19
with the proprietary amdgpu drivers
2324[20:49:31] <Jmabsd> ratrace: i have exactly this prob
replaced-url
2325[20:49:37] <marduk> SerajewelKS: thank you I will think on
your words
2326[20:49:44] <ratrace> what's wrong with the proprietary
driver?
2327[20:49:52] <Jmabsd> ratrace: ah. em. well okay
2330[20:50:22] <ryouma> ratrace: i spent 3mo trying to downgrade
xorg because matrox stopped supporing xorg. that is why.
2331[20:50:26] <SerajewelKS> marduk: perhaps if you explain why
you think ftp is better, what it offers you that scp doesn't,
we could try to explain how you could get that same experience with
scp
2332[20:50:58] <ratrace> ryouma: 3 months? I'd go out and
buy another card, that'd be way cheaper than spending that time
trying to bend Debian out of shape
2346[20:53:54] <marduk> SerajewelKS: if I use scp I should
exaCTLY KNOW what file and there I should put it, if I use ftp, I
can be more free to browse and choose
2347[20:55:43] <SerajewelKS> marduk: so use "sftp"
instead, which uses the same protocol as scp but is interactive and
lets you browse
2348[20:56:47] <openbsdtai123> good soft, filezilla maybe for
begin?
2349[20:58:02] <ratrace> sftp and scp are different protocols
2354[20:59:08] <marduk> SerajewelKS: thank you I just tried sftp,
don`t know jet but it is promissing :)
2355[20:59:22] <ratrace> openbsdtai123: openssh is developed by
openbsd and they recommend not using scp
2356[20:59:36] <GenTooMan> would adding the firmware-amd-graphics
improve video on my AMD system with an APU (laptop) much? Would it
also enable using the HDMI connector?
2357[21:01:00] *** Quits: endstille (~endstille@replaced-ip) (Quit: I'll be back.)
2358[21:02:36] <openbsdtai123> (game topic on debian: did you
maybe hear about an chess game made with FLTK lib ? (like xboard but
with fltk)
2410[21:35:55] <GenTooMan> any suggestions for seeing battery
life etc. in LXDE/LXDM or do I need a more bloated DT to actually
track the status of my laptop?
2420[21:38:58] <openbsdtai123> Maybe to compile kernel oneself,
you need to know more infos about what's inside the 4.09
kernel... can you check that and pastebin more about it...
2421[21:39:10] <towo`> Jmabsd, and what ato card you have?
2422[21:39:13] <pmart> ok found I found the answer:
replaced-url
2423[21:40:13] <Jmabsd> wait, better yet: i'll just keep
nomodeset.
2424[21:40:30] <towo`> Jmabsd, that doesn't make any sense
2485[21:59:26] <Jmabsd> ahaaa now with the added
"nonfree" to the buster-backports in
/etc/apt/sources.list, now seems it catches 20190717 version, great
2486[21:59:32] <Jmabsd> also called "bpo". downloading.
2490[22:00:44] <Jmabsd> dvs: just curious, why is that a problem
2491[22:02:26] <Jmabsd> towo`: nooope, same outcome! :(((
2492[22:02:27] <dvs> Jmabsd, because backports packages
aren't maintained on a regular basis. Just get the packages you
NEED to have and leave the rest alone.
2493[22:02:31] <Jmabsd> screen goes dark, loss of signal
2508[22:07:31] <Jmabsd> here come the logs:
replaced-url
2509[22:07:40] <Jmabsd> that's dmesg and Xorg.0.conf
2510[22:07:58] <jhutchins> I'm amazed that there isn't
an option or an extension to automatically block looped video. More
and more sites are doing auto-play loops.
2511[22:08:39] <Jmabsd> i'll put on a paste site too, sec
2536[22:15:13] <Jmabsd> so weird, "apt -t buster-backports
install linux-image-amd64" says "linux-image-amd64 is
already the newest version (5.3.9-2~bpo10+1)."
2578[22:26:08] <towo`> Jmabsd, why you have a xorg.conf?
2579[22:26:38] <openbsdtai123> If you find out what was given to
your working older kernel, it is possible to get inspiration to
compile your custom kernel kernel.org.
2595[22:31:49] <judd> [1002:687f] is 'Vega 10 XL/XT [Radeon
RX Vega 56/64]' from 'Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
[AMD/ATI]' with kernel module 'snd-hda-intel' in
stretch. See also
replaced-url
2596[22:32:18] <Jmabsd> towo`,jhutchins: which kernel do you deem
preferable, 4.19 or 5.3?
2614[22:35:35] <jhutchins> Jmabsd: Try loading x again?
2615[22:36:34] <Jmabsd> jhutchins: yep doing sec
2616[22:37:32] <openbsdtai123> I just installed with debootstrap
on a scandisk pendrive, installed minetest, on my intel. Is it
possible that for gaming, running debian from pendrive will be slow
and laggy?
2617[22:38:01] <Jmabsd> yey, X is 4K now! :D
2618[22:38:15] <jhutchins> openbsdtai123: A standard install to a
pen drive will be slow. Most people will find it unusable.
2619[22:38:17] <Jmabsd> it's slow but it is 4K.
2620[22:38:48] <jhutchins> Jmabsd: You can delete that conf file
since you don't have that card any more.
2623[22:39:17] <openbsdtai123> jhutchins: then... this confirms
it. Thank you!
2624[22:40:04] <Jmabsd> looks like xorg.log says it's using
"fbdevhw", sounds like vesa. the graphics are fast... but
it does speak of amdgpu too, hm.-
2635[22:44:30] <nvz> Jmabsd: and often newer means less tested
and that can lead to problems. There is little reason to upgrade a
kernel unless you have hardware too new to be supported by the
existing one
2639[22:45:31] <nvz> I only compiled 5.x cause I have special
interest in the kernel and I haven't build one since 2.6 and
I'm looking to build actual manufacturing machines running
realtime linux so.. I wanted to get up to speed
2672[22:53:47] <dpkg> Where possible, most ATI/AMD graphics
processing units are supported using the open source
"radeon" driver on Debian systems by default, ask me about
<radeon>. To install the proprietary "fglrx" driver,
ask me about <fglrx>; installing this directly from amd.com
(i.e. with the AMD Catalyst installer) is not supported in #debian,
please go to #ati on irc.freenode.net.
2687[23:00:17] <dvs> Jmabsd, that's why it's LTS - Long
Term Support. Those kernels will get security improvements. Not sure
about the speed improvements though.
2712[23:13:20] <dpkg> HDMI audio output with the open source
<radeon> driver is disabled by default since Linux 3.0. To
enable, load the radeon module with the "audio=1"
parameter; ask me about <modprobe>. See also <radeon
firmware>.
2713[23:14:23] <openbsdtai123> Vesa would have been always useful
to keep, especially for older hardware. Xorg is evolving, nothing to
do about that.
2753[23:30:28] <joepublic> the stretch->buster factoid feels a
little like it was written to upgrade to buster when stretch was
stable and buster was testing
2758[23:32:22] <dpkg> stretch->buster -- created by themill
<~stuart@unaffiliated/themill> at Fri Jun 16 14:01:53 2017
(929 days); last modified at Sun Jul 7 02:12:46 2019 by
themill!~stuart@themill.user.oftc.net; it has been requested 301
times, last by anddam, 9m 4s ago.
2759[23:32:36] <nvz> dpkg, buster
2760[23:32:36] <dpkg> Buster is the codename for the current
<stable> release, Debian 10, released 2019-07-06.
"Buster" is Andy's pet Dachshund in Toy Story, see
replaced-url
2774[23:39:20] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2775[23:40:38] <nvz> anddam: yes well that is apparently
referring to stable-specific in a different manner.. not the lines
themselves but the packages they provide
2780[23:41:35] <anddam> nvz: but for me (user) it was unclear
2781[23:42:05] <anddam> I mean I'd spent a couple more words
there explaining that you should know if the provided packages are
stable-specific
2782[23:42:19] <nvz> anddam: it seems mostly semantics that its
unclear and aside from simply omitting the mention of
stable-specific, I don't see how to clarify it cause really I
don't see any other thing that would fall into this category
that isnt mentioned elsewhere like <dmo>
2783[23:42:43] <nvz> the thing about factoids is they have a
limit.. because irc has a limit..
2784[23:42:48] <joepublic> saying "stretch-specific"
would do the job. if you are running something from
stretch-backports, it's already in buster
2785[23:42:51] <nvz> so we can't ramble on and on in there
2786[23:43:10] <nvz> but I can change it if we have something
sensible to change it to
2787[23:43:53] <nvz> I dont like it because it seems like an
unnecessary classification it seems to imply there are a category of
such lines
2788[23:44:05] <nvz> to me, this is covered by the 3rd party
thing..
2790[23:44:32] <nvz> there is no other line that is semi-official
like backports.org that I can think of that would fit into the same
category as it for this context
2791[23:44:44] <nvz> so the qualifier "stable-specific"
is itself unnecessary
2792[23:44:57] <nvz> could just say
2793[23:45:19] <nvz> "remove lines like stretch-backports,
debian-multimedia, and any 3rd party repos.
2795[23:45:42] <nvz> thats not implying necessarily that
backports is 3rd party, while still mentioning things that should be
removed
2796[23:46:18] <nvz> cause backports is semi-official is what
I'd call it.. its maintained by debian maintainers, in that
sense its official, but its outside normal debian policy
2797[23:46:43] <nvz> its officially unoffcial would be another
way to say it :P
2798[23:46:44] <joepublic> dmo neé debian-multimedia is
itself third party, of course
2799[23:46:55] <nvz> well not really..
2800[23:47:04] <nvz> dmo was also created by a debian mainatiner
:P
2801[23:47:15] <nvz> its just not quite officially unofficial
2806[23:48:11] <joepublic> I was confusing the two it seems
2807[23:48:54] <nvz> however we have in this(and freenode)
support chat long since advised against its use.. but we are not
"official" we are users supporting users for the most part
2812[23:50:40] <nvz> I propose then we move the apt update
&& ... etc to the end of the factoid as that shouldn't
be done until you do the rest.. and combine the remove backports,
dmo, and 3rd party stuff more clearly as previously stated