Realtime Nick Name Ticker of #debian at freenode (ICQ IRC service)

0[00:00:21] <brutser> Habbie: i need a gui with some vm's <
1[00:00:45] <Habbie> brutser, so your dom0 is a workstation?
2[00:00:51] <brutser> perhaps i only need x11 and ssh -x to the vm, i don't know if that's possible
3[00:00:59] <trek00> brutser: as Habbie said you can avoid recommended packages and do not install X on your host
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5[00:01:38] <brutser> dom0 is a workstation yes
6[00:01:40] <trek00> brutser: for a minimal X11 you can install openbox
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8[00:02:33] <brutser> the main function of the workstation is to provide qemu-kvm (i guess a little similar like qubes os)
9[00:03:05] <brutser> the dom0 must be as basic as possible and will have no (active) network connection
10[00:03:09] <Habbie> isolating all those things is pretty pointless if they can all access the same X desktop
11[00:03:35] <brutser> Habbie: how would you suggest to set this up?
12[00:03:48] <Habbie> brutser, i don't know - you have only hinted at your goal. what is your goal?
13[00:04:12] <trek00> Habbie: is pointless if the attack is an hacker, not if the attack vector is something automated like a worm virus/malware
14[00:04:36] <brutser> basically to provide an interface where vm's are isolated as much as possible and with separate vm
15[00:04:40] <brutser> sorry ^
16[00:04:43] <Habbie> trek00, i agree, shades of grey, wanted to point out a pitfall but selled it short while distracted
17[00:04:45] <Habbie> my apologies
18[00:04:57] <brutser> with separate vm's for the networing security
19[00:05:05] <brutser> networking*
20[00:05:24] <Habbie> brutser, dumb question, if you want 'like qubes', why not use qubes?
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22[00:05:38] <trek00> but i agree, using vm to separate apps and the use a single X11 is not an ideal solution
23[00:06:52] <brutser> Habbie: it's eating resources and i only need a small part of its functionalities, i have tried, but opted to go for a self-made solution, as my requirements are doable i feel
24[00:07:06] <brutser> finance situation is not that big right now
25[00:07:12] <trek00> brutser: it really depends by your attack threats, may be using different users could reach the same objectives?
26[00:08:14] <brutser> trek00: well i like the per-session virus/malware protection, unless it's targeting the host through some kvm/qemu vuln obviously, but that's the same with xen
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28[00:08:29] <CaptainDusty> brutser: I run a similar configuration. My `daily-driver` is basically a method to connect to my network (vpn - very locked down). Every app I run, including this weechat instance, are running in separate VM's.
29[00:08:41] <CaptainDusty> (However; the VM's are hosted on a central asset, rather than the daily driver)
30[00:09:13] <brutser> CaptainDusty: yes i could have opted for that, like a separate box with alpine+xen or something
31[00:09:51] <CaptainDusty> brutser: I have run Qubes, as per some suggestions above. It's pretty heavy on battery (as my `daily driver` is a laptop)
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33[00:10:14] <brutser> CaptainDusty: yes, and not only the battery
34[00:10:33] <CaptainDusty> brutser: True. I ran into restrictions of RAM. Also disk space even with minimal images.
35[00:10:38] <trek00> brutser: virtualization is an heavy method to get protected by virus/malwares
36[00:10:40] <CaptainDusty> I also preferred to run Debian.
37[00:10:52] <CaptainDusty> (at the time)
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39[00:11:07] <trek00> brutser: I usually run many different users on the same X11 or in multiple Xnested server
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41[00:11:47] <brutser> trek00: yes but for networking it gives me many options on the same device and i like that/need that
42[00:12:25] <brutser> trek00: basically it's either qubes, or a similar own solution, you can argue if qubes is needed or not, but i guess that's not my question
43[00:12:32] <trek00> brutser: you can configure a local firewall to permits some users to connect and others not, I usually deny any connection from root here
44[00:12:48] <CaptainDusty> brutser: Also consider; proper hardware virt (Which is, in my limited research, a key requirement for full isolation) is a lottery at best.
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47[00:13:05] <brutser> trek00: yes, but let's not go that route, i really need some virtualization, either kvm or xen based
48[00:13:42] <brutser> trek00: i appreciate your suggestions of course, for every use-case there are different solutions
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54[00:14:31] <trek00> brutser: good, then install a minimal X, you can try simply installing xinit to go without a window manager, openbox for a minimal wm, lxde or xfce4 for a minimal desktop and do not install recommended packages (disable them on the command line or configuration file)
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58[00:16:32] <brutser> trek00: ok i will have to experiment with that
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61[00:18:01] <ed_peguillan> Anybody experienced with talking to a cellular modem over MBIM USB protocol? I'm wondering if I can have multiple transaction ID's going at the same time for different requests. If that's safe to do, I mean.
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64[00:18:25] <ed_peguillan> Also, if I have a quick, one-shot type of request, like asking for registration state. Do I even need to keep the transaction ID around?
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66[00:18:40] <ed_peguillan> Do I need to keep the transaction open when initiating a connection?
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112[00:42:37] <z8z> After the 10.0.0 release is there any known big issue in the new Debian?
113[00:42:49] <z8z> Is it worth upgrading?
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118[00:45:53] <trek00> z8z: i haven't see big issues
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120[00:47:10] <z8z> Ok thanks
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201[01:38:53] <Iarfen> hi!
202[01:39:19] <Iarfen> which is a good database that allows to be handled as a file?
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212[01:42:29] <ZaZaGX> hi
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222[01:46:40] <ZaZaGX> nothing is broken
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224[01:46:57] <dvs> darn!
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226[01:47:19] <ZaZaGX> :)
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233[01:49:41] <Unit193> OK, Ralph.
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235[01:50:14] <dvs> he's my cousin!
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237[01:50:59] <ZaZaGX> like blood cousin?
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239[01:51:13] <dvs> byte cousins
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243[01:53:19] <ZaZaGX> thats pretty small
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288[02:18:36] <Oksana> My /etc/hosts contains 127.0.0.1 localhost \n 127.0.1.1 myhostname.home myhostname . What does it mean?
289[02:19:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1536
290[02:19:32] <hop> Oksana: that localhost points to 127.0.0.1 and myhostname / myhostname.home point to 127.0.1.1?
291[02:20:08] <Oksana> hop: What is 127.0.1.1 ?
292[02:20:25] <hop> Oksana: an ip address?
293[02:20:30] <hop> ok, ok, for real
294[02:20:37] <Oksana> Should I just have one line instead such as 127.0.0.1 localhost myhostname
295[02:20:42] <hop> it's a local loopback address, just like 127.0.0.1
296[02:21:01] <hop> you will notice that 127.0.0.1 is not the same as 127.0.1.1
297[02:21:14] <hop> so, one line is right out
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299[02:21:46] <hop> do you have a network on that machine?
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302[02:22:09] <Oksana> I have heard about 127.0.0.1 as local loopback address before. Does it function any different from 127.0.1.1?
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304[02:22:21] <hop> all roads lead to rome…
305[02:22:29] <hop> do you have network on that machine?
306[02:22:42] <Oksana> hop: Yes, Ethernet. Does presence or absence of network affect existence of 127.0.1.1?
307[02:23:16] <hop> Oksana: you should replace that ip with your real ip
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309[02:23:39] <Oksana> hop: What is my real IP, and how it is different from 127.0.0.1?
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311[02:24:06] <hop> i don't know what your real ip is. the ip that your box is reachable under from the network
312[02:24:41] <hop> it is different from 127.0.0.1 in that the latter is the address of the local loopback device. not very useful for communicating with other machines
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315[02:25:08] <hop> 127.0.1.1 is just a crutch for when the real ip is not known. some software has issues if it can't resolve the local hostname
316[02:25:09] <Oksana> What's interesting, ping resolves localhost as ::1, not as 127.0.0.1
317[02:25:22] <hop> yeah, well, welcome to the future
318[02:25:33] <Oksana> IPv6?
319[02:25:47] <hop> hm?
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321[02:26:01] <hop> i'm good, thanks
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324[02:26:23] <Oksana> Why ::1, and not ordinary A.B.C.D?
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326[02:26:32] <hop> ::1 is just as ordinary
327[02:26:37] <hop> yes, it is ipv6
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332[02:29:50] <Oksana> I am annoyed because I cannot seem to reproduce yesterday issue with "Cannot connect to Internet, sudo stuck without asking for password, cannot hibernate, cannot even shutdown properly"
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335[02:30:11] <hop> sounds like more than one issue
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337[02:30:27] <hop> also, be glad, move on?
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347[02:33:55] <Oksana> hop: Alright, just, wish I knew what is behind it. Because right now, I am still worried that it will strike when I least expect it.
348[02:34:11] <s7r> where is the best place to seek for a Debian package maintainer?
349[02:34:53] *** Quits: hybrid (~hybrid@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
350[02:35:02] <Oksana> s7r: 'apt-cache show packagename | grep Maintainer'
351[02:35:10] *** Joins: hybrid (~hybrid@replaced-ip)
352[02:35:31] <Oksana> s7r: or replaced-url
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355[02:35:57] <s7r> Oksana: I know who the maintainer is for the package i'm interested in. except it's not maintained any more and i'd like to sponsor someone to take over
356[02:36:15] <s7r> Oksana: i mean place to seek new maintainers to take over orphaned packages
357[02:36:29] <s7r> sorry for not asking clear from the first place
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359[02:36:48] <Oksana> s7r: Ah, that's... no idea. I have done a little Debian packaging myself, years ago, but it was more once-off packaging, not maintaining for decades.
360[02:36:49] <Unit193> Well, usually if it sparks someones interest, they'll look into it.
361[02:37:33] <s7r> it hasn't so far
362[02:37:39] <Unit193> What package?
363[02:37:45] <s7r> I wanted to somehow incentive that
364[02:37:55] <s7r> replaced-url
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366[02:38:13] <s7r> the version here is basically useless, it's not working at all. and it has some dependencies that have to pass through NEW
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376[02:44:26] <Oksana> What kind of excuse is "98 days old (5 needed)"? Introducing new bugs is a valid concern.
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379[02:48:08] <hop> Oksana: what do you mean? strike who strike what?
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381[02:48:18] <hop> Oksana: have you put your ip into hosts?
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383[02:49:56] <Oksana> hop: How would I know my IP? Is it static or dynamic? What happens with IP when I switch between Ethernet and WiFi?
384[02:50:35] * Oksana doesn't remember where that sort of configuration is; anyway, installation of libnss-myhostname would hopefully resolve all of this
385[02:50:39] <mason> Oksana: these are all local environmental questions. Typically your wifi and wired NICs will have different MAC addresses and will appear as different systems to your DHCP server.
386[02:50:51] <mason> Oksana: I may have missed some detail that explains more, of course.
387[02:51:04] <jak2000> #apt install sudo E: unable to locate package sudo
388[02:51:06] <jak2000> ahi?
389[02:51:10] <jak2000> *why?
390[02:51:13] <s7r> Oksana: don't know. the 3.3.2 is not working anyway in the wild. 3.3.8 is needed but 3.3.8 introduces some new dependencies, some which are not in Debian at all yet, so they need to pass through NEW
391[02:51:22] <hop> Oksana: is this a laptop?
392[02:51:36] <hop> Oksana: like _actually_ a machine that will change networks?
393[02:51:39] <s7r> Unit193: if you have an idea, lemme know by private message any time. gonna get some sleep now, thank you!
394[02:52:07] <Oksana> hop: Yes, a laptop.
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397[02:52:29] <Bushmills> jak2000: because of a problem, or a mistake
398[02:52:43] <Unit193> s7r: Not really, but if it's an IRC channel then it's on OFTC. I doubt that'd be the most useful though. I remained silent as I didn't exactly have any ideas. Perhaps try to find out if there's a bitcoin team in Debian.
399[02:52:50] <hop> Oksana: then make sure dns works properly and ignore hosts
400[02:52:58] <mason> jak2000: apt update first, at a guess
401[02:53:05] <s7r> oki Unit193 , ack! thank you!
402[02:53:18] <hop> Oksana: and un-bunch your knickers. what's the worst that could happen?
403[02:54:34] <jak2000> mason: replaced-url
404[02:55:19] <Bushmills> "alow" ...
405[02:55:39] <Oksana> So, regarding GUI bitcoin client, there are only electrum and bitcoin-qt . And electrum is probably easier to use, but its maintenance is troublesome.
406[02:55:41] <mason> jak2000: That seems like an awfully short /etc/apt/sources.list
407[02:56:33] <dvs> jak2000, yeah, you only have the security repo in your sources.
408[02:56:38] <mason> jak2000: replaced-url
409[02:56:47] <mason> jak2000: That has an example Buster sources list set.
410[02:56:51] <Oksana> hop: Go to do something somewhere else (be it a different Ethernet or a different WiFi), my laptop doesn't connect to network, doesn't even see that a network is there, sudo gets stuck, hibernate and shutdown do not work, I spend hours just trying to shut it down without shattering the file system.
411[02:57:23] <jak2000> mason: replaced-url
412[02:57:24] <mason> jak2000: Toss the entries in they give as an example for 10/Buster, apt update, then you should be able to install things.
413[02:58:15] <mason> jak2000: Yeah, after looking at that, my advice stands. :)
414[02:58:17] <dvs> jak2000, like I said, you only have the security repo
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417[03:00:24] <jak2000> can i write 6 lines?
418[03:00:26] <jak2000> these:
419[03:00:49] <mason> jak2000: bpaste.net is good for pasting text
420[03:00:50] <jak2000> replaced-url
421[03:01:02] <jak2000> i installed proxmos.. and cant copy text...
422[03:01:42] <mason> jak2000: That looks good at a glance.
423[03:01:56] <jak2000> this helped me: replaced-url
424[03:02:05] <hop> Oksana: those problems don't come from a wrong hostname resolution
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426[03:02:36] <Oksana> hop: I have heard that sudo may be stuck before asking for password... because of absence of network?
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429[03:03:27] <hop> Oksana: hostname resolution via /etc/hosts does not require or in anyway influence the existence or absence of a network
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431[03:04:03] <jak2000> thanks
432[03:04:05] <jak2000> testing
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434[03:05:40] <Oksana> Going by replaced-url
435[03:05:41] <judd> Bug replaced-url
436[03:06:10] <mason> Woot, my first upgrade into buster, and it worked unproblematically.
437[03:06:49] <mason> AppArmor by default! Hadn't realized that was there.
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439[03:08:26] <Oksana> But then, apparently, somebody else (not the maintainer) has made sure that 3.2.3 in Debian repositories prints out a warning about the bug and then closes promptly.
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452[03:18:10] <SerajewelKS> is it advisable to use flash drives for swap? are they likely to be faster than an HDD?
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455[03:19:24] <jak2000> anyone used virtio drivers?
456[03:19:29] *** Quits: monstar (~mitya@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
457[03:19:33] <jak2000> this one: replaced-url
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460[03:21:18] <SerajewelKS> my main concern about using flash drives for swap is that they'll probably fail much sooner than the HDDS
461[03:21:46] <SerajewelKS> and when that happens the system will basically die -- is mitigating that with raid1 a feasible solution or will the dual writes make the system slower
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468[03:27:37] <Bushmills> while I have swap on Flash (SSD), I've also brought down swappiness to be easy on the drive
469[03:27:41] <mason> jak2000: virtio tends to Just Work
470[03:28:09] <mason> jak2000: If you're talking about a guest, that is. If you're talking about hosting things using ProxMox, I have no experience there.
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478[03:32:24] <Oksana> Why is it said that SSD is going to be worn down quickly by swap? Why does swap then exist, instead of just storing the same information in RAM instead?
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480[03:32:48] <Bushmills> I should be more concerned about log files, and should log them to a remote system
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483[03:33:06] <dvs> Oksana, swap is the overflow for RAM.
484[03:33:18] <mason> Oksana: Swap is many decades older than SSD. Not all the world is an SSD. Modern enterprise SSD tends to be reliable enough to not be a source of worry.
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486[03:34:16] <mason> Oksana: If you have insufficient RAM and swap often this will naturally be more wear and tear on any device, SSD included. SSDs tend to have a limited number of writes before they pick a failure mode.
487[03:36:16] <SerajewelKS> TBH i should just get another 4GB RAM for this server
488[03:36:25] <Oksana> mason: I am glad to see that I currently have 0K Swap. But then, uptime is only 1h 45 min.
489[03:37:02] <mason> Oksana: You should generally be able to estimate RAM usage for a server. For a laptop, it's probably going to vary wildly, especially if you use a web browser. In general, don't worry about it.
490[03:37:02] * Oksana has upgraded the laptop to max RAM - 8GB - when replacing hard drive with SSD, and is glad to hear one more reason as to why it was wise to do so.
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493[03:37:43] <Oksana> mason: I would rather not have SSD fail suddenly on me. Are there any early warning signs of impeding failure?
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495[03:38:02] <dvs> heh
496[03:38:08] <SerajewelKS> Oksana: SMART status
497[03:38:32] <SerajewelKS> on debian, smartmontools will provide a SMART-monitoring daemon, IIRC
498[03:38:43] <SerajewelKS> also, regular backups are a good idea for any scenario
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501[03:39:22] <mason> Oksana: In addition to smartmontools, a quick search shows smart-notifier. Never used it, but it's there.
502[03:39:26] * Oksana dislikes back-ups strongly
503[03:39:32] <mason> I hate my data too.
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506[03:40:00] <SerajewelKS> Oksana: if you don't like backups then you're doing them wrong
507[03:40:10] <Bushmills> who doesn't keep backups has no data worth to keep
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509[03:41:05] <Bushmills> backups happening network wide fully automatic and unattended here
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511[03:41:20] <SerajewelKS> same, at least on anything that matters
512[03:41:21] <Oksana> SerajewelKS: If back-ups could be done on-the-fly, then it would be easy. But to me, a back-up sounds like: "Undig this back-up thing from where I have buried it under papers, and leave laptop switched on all night copying this and that (preferably everything) to back-up"
513[03:41:39] <SerajewelKS> Oksana: if you use a retarded backup tool then sure
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515[03:42:26] <Bushmills> well, they can :) consider something like a replication server between network hosts and backup system (commonly NAS based)
516[03:42:29] <SerajewelKS> Oksana: my personal favorite is restic, which can use many different storage backends (AWS S3, B2, local directory, sftp, etc.) and deduplicates (so only what changed gets backed up)
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518[03:42:49] <SerajewelKS> Oksana: i have it automated on both my windows and linux machines. they take backups every night automatically.
519[03:43:42] <Bushmills> replication server available all the time, for convinience of any system. backup only needs to come on once every so often to incrementally backup the replication server
520[03:43:47] <Oksana> SerajewelKS: I have a crazy amount of hard drives located in random places around the house. Barely remember which one is which. Doesn't help that there are four personal laptops, aka one per each person in the family - it means that there are at least four hard drives in free motion around the house.
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522[03:44:32] <Oksana> SerajewelKS: Take back-ups to where? And doesn't back-up thingie get worn out from nightly back-ups?
523[03:44:54] <Oksana> Probably much less worn out than laptop itself from being used all day long.
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527[03:49:29] <SerajewelKS> Oksana: if you use a cloud storage backend like S3 or B2 then you're just paying monthly per GB of storage
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529[03:50:01] <SerajewelKS> Oksana: i have a tiered approach. i have two 2TB disks that are mirrored (creating one redundant 2TB disk) and things backup to that. then that disk is synced to B2.
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532[03:51:32] <SerajewelKS> Oksana: the 2TB disks are my first line of defense. they protect me from windows malware, human error, etc. the cloud storage is for a catastrophe, such as a house fire or both backup disks failing at the same time.
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542[03:58:37] <Oksana> SerajewelKS: SSD inside my laptop is fairly large, even though Linux partition on it is fairly small... 120GB+222GB attempt to rescue from failed hard drive (C: and D: Windows XP partitions, NTFS), 258GB of current Linux partitions, 142GB of old Linux partition from failed hard drive, and 259GB free space (aka would be just enough to back up my current Linux to, if it made any sense to back up from one partition of SSD to another parti
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545[03:59:02] <Oksana> Aka 1TB SSD total, apparently.
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549[04:00:17] <SerajewelKS> i mean you can pick and choose what you back up
550[04:00:27] <SerajewelKS> but experience has taught me that if you don't back up your data, then it has no value
551[04:00:43] <SerajewelKS> it's like depositing your money in a bank that doesn't have insurance
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554[04:01:36] <Bushmills> or riding motorbike in swimming trunks
555[04:03:22] <SerajewelKS> yep
556[04:03:33] <SerajewelKS> with hard disk failure it's when, not if
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559[04:04:14] <SerajewelKS> Oksana: if these external drives rarely (or never) leave the house then that sounds more like you need a NAS, which would be much easier to consistently back up than a collection of external disks
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613[04:42:22] <galaxie> Hi, I'm trying to setup ecryptfs, but when I try to load the ecryptfs module, it says it cannot find it. I'm using Debian Stretch. Kernel version 4.4.13.
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617[04:44:31] <galaxie> Do I just have the wrong kernel versions? I noticed there were a few bug reports concerning 4.1.14..
618[04:46:01] <annadane> well, the normal kernel version in stretch is 4.9 something
619[04:46:23] <galaxie> Oh. Great. So I'm also supposed to do a kernel upgrade too?
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622[04:51:54] <annadane> well, i don't know
623[04:52:03] <annadane> i'm just saying that the kernel you're using is an older one
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627[04:54:55] <galaxie> Supposedly ecryptfs has been part of the kernel since 2.something.something, so...
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644[05:04:19] <annadane> i guess... look up the module name and see if it's in the kernel...? i'm not really being helpful
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651[05:07:52] <annadane> or just tell us it and maybe someone knows why you're getting the error
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659[05:10:46] <SerajewelKS> galaxie: "modprobe ecryptfs" works here on 4.9.0
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662[05:12:43] <SerajewelKS> galaxie: are you sure you're using a kernel provided by debian, and not some other distro or a kernel built from source yourself?
663[05:12:54] <annadane> 4.4 was never a kernel for stretch
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665[05:13:02] <annadane> it's an LTS branch
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671[05:15:07] <ZaZaGX> congrats to Debian! it moved up to #5 spot behind Ubuntu on distrowatch
672[05:16:00] <funny> how about mx linux
673[05:16:03] <annadane> distrowatch is purely based on page views
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675[05:16:20] <ninja> annadane: on page views?
676[05:16:28] <SerajewelKS> you can't accurately measure market share of something that is free and doesn't phone home about usage
677[05:16:41] <annadane> the distro "ranking" is based on how many hits the page gets on distrowatch
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679[05:16:47] <ninja> I think only distro maintainers can keep a record how much users they have.
680[05:17:15] <SerajewelKS> ninja: and even then, only if they put something in the base install that regularly pings them
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682[05:17:35] <SerajewelKS> e.g. popcon on debian, but not everyone opts in to that
683[05:17:51] <annadane> i just press no... i probably should press yes but *shrug*
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686[05:17:56] <swamprock> oops
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688[05:18:46] <annadane> pretty sure debian has a lot fewer bugs than ubuntu so who cares about distrowatch ranking...
689[05:18:48] <ninja> I mostly deselect all things in installation only ssh server I select and basic utilities.
690[05:19:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1526
691[05:19:02] <SerajewelKS> popcon is a separate question at the end of the install
692[05:19:15] <SerajewelKS> but yeh, you can opt out. you can even install debian without any of the ISOs.
693[05:19:15] <ninja> even from a netinstall iso which is minimalistic install in debian
694[05:19:35] <SerajewelKS> so even ISO download counts aren't accurate. and many people probably download once and then install to many machines.
695[05:19:36] <Josh`> Upgraded to Debian 10 from Debian 9.9. zabbix-agent is requiring libcurl4, which appears to be a valid package on packages.debian.org, but apt is saying 'libcurl4' has no installation candidate.
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697[05:20:05] <SerajewelKS> !bat
698[05:20:05] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
699[05:20:07] <SerajewelKS> Josh`: ^
700[05:20:16] <ninja> I just enabled buster from testing and ran update. it says, your system is upgraded already :)
701[05:20:29] <ninja> Is it normal?
702[05:20:48] <SerajewelKS> ninja: if you had testing in there then surprise, you went past buster
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704[05:21:19] <ninja> SerajewelKS: I just wanna check differences.
705[05:21:25] <ninja> else I'm good at testing.
706[05:21:33] <SerajewelKS> ninja: you are running bullseye now
707[05:21:46] <SerajewelKS> ninja: the differences is that you're running newer stuff than in buster, so of course nothing can be upgraded :P
708[05:21:47] <ninja> yeah bullseye is release name
709[05:22:26] <ninja> so apt won't downgrade the packages to buster level this way?
710[05:22:42] <SerajewelKS> downgrading packages is not officially supported
711[05:22:50] <ninja> Just asking.
712[05:22:51] <SerajewelKS> so no, apt isn't going to do something that isn't supported unless you force it to
713[05:23:02] <SerajewelKS> !downgrade
714[05:23:02] <dpkg> Downgrading is not, nor will ever be supported by apt. Programs change their data in a way that can't be rolled back, and package maintainer scripts support upgrades to new config file formats but not downgrades. Try: "dpkg -i olderversion.deb" or "aptitude install package=version" using "apt-cache policy package" to get the old version number. See also <partial downgrade>, <unstable->testing>, <sdo>.
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717[05:23:45] <swamprock> Testing the newest kernel from bullseye/sid myself
718[05:23:48] <ninja> !mirrors
719[05:23:48] <dpkg> The best mirror for most users is <deb.debian.org>; other mirrors are listed at replaced-url
720[05:23:51] <Josh`> Required info from dpkg: replaced-url
721[05:24:15] <ninja> Is deb.debian.org really faster than other mirrors?
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723[05:24:41] <ninja> swamprock: which version of kernel you have?
724[05:25:10] <annadane> deb.debian.org is a redirector
725[05:25:23] <annadane> so in theory "yes except one which is the one it points to"
726[05:25:38] <SerajewelKS> Josh`: you aren't running buster
727[05:25:44] <swamprock> ninja: it's the 5.x series. I'll have to boot my iBook to see what the actual version is (I'm running Debian Ports/sid on PowerPC 32-bit)
728[05:25:52] <SerajewelKS> Josh`: based on this output you're trying to install the buster zabbix-agent on stretch
729[05:26:12] <ninja> In bullseyes I have 4.19 yet
730[05:26:15] <Josh`> SerajewelKS, Shit, you're right. I've apparently not upgraded this host yet.
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732[05:26:36] <swamprock> ninja: I'm booting it now
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734[05:27:00] <SerajewelKS> Josh`: :)
735[05:27:23] <SerajewelKS> Josh`: also, using ubuntu PPAs on debian is strongly discouraged
736[05:27:25] <SerajewelKS> !ppa
737[05:27:25] <dpkg> [ppa] Personal Package Archive (see replaced-url
738[05:27:39] <SerajewelKS> !why not use a ppa
739[05:27:39] <dpkg> PPAs (Ubuntu's Personal Package Archives, see <PPA>) are not built against Debian releases, they are built against Ubuntu releases. This makes using packages from them on a Debian box highly unlikely to work out well. Ask me about <ssb> <package recompile> <bobbitt>.
740[05:27:50] <ninja> I used 5.x when I was on source base distro. Yesterday I installed a 5.x but came back to stock one.
741[05:28:20] <swamprock> ninja: 5.2.7-1 (2019-08-07)
742[05:28:42] <ninja> annadane: deb.debian.org redirects where?
743[05:28:43] <swamprock> ninja: er... 5.2.0-2
744[05:28:58] <swamprock> looked at the wrong line
745[05:29:02] <ninja> yeah I had it yesterday
746[05:29:06] <annadane> ninja, to... the fastest mirror, don't know if they do it by ping or physical location
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748[05:29:32] <ZaZaGX> i see two different numbers for the buster kernel. which is which?
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750[05:29:39] <ninja> annadane: for me its not faster than the one I had commented now.
751[05:29:56] <ninja> ZaZaGX: apt install linux-image-amd64
752[05:30:10] <ZaZaGX> i was doing uname -a
753[05:30:31] <ninja> do that after you reboot to new kernel.
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755[05:31:18] <Josh`> SerajewelKS, I'd *love* to remove the ppa reference in sources.list, if I could only find a deb src for Deluge that's actively maintained.
756[05:31:31] <ZaZaGX> Linux debian 4.19.0-5-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.37-5+deb10u2 (2019-08-08) x86_64 GNU/Linux
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758[05:32:04] <ZaZaGX> is the kernel 4.19.0-5? or 4.19.37-5?
759[05:32:04] <SerajewelKS> ,v deluge
760[05:32:05] <judd> Package: deluge on amd64 -- jessie: 1.3.10-3+deb8u1; jessie-security: 1.3.10-3+deb8u1; stretch: 1.3.13+git20161130.48cedf63-3; bullseye: 1.3.15-2; buster: 1.3.15-2; sid: 1.3.15-2
761[05:32:22] <ninja> mine buster is currently sleeping, on this machine I have Linux nix 4.19.0-5-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.37-6 (2019-07-18) x86_64 GNU/Linux
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763[05:32:45] <SerajewelKS> Josh`: it's literally in debian itself
764[05:33:00] <SerajewelKS> Josh`: stretch is two patch releases behind and buster is up to date
765[05:33:08] <ninja> annadane: Can't we use rsync with apt?
766[05:33:13] <annadane> i have no idea
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768[05:33:21] <annadane> i don't know everything
769[05:33:29] <annadane> in fact the list of things i do know is vanishingly small
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771[05:33:51] <Josh`> ahh, I see that. At the time, the ubuntu ppa was the only repo that had 1.3.15, which was needed for pymedusa, IIRC.
772[05:33:55] <ninja> I think we can. I once tried it on raspbian but they asked me to download some thing which I then tried but wasn't there, both in bullseye and raspbian buster
773[05:33:57] <Josh`> That will be next, then
774[05:34:12] <SerajewelKS> Josh`: ah. note that backporting from sid is usually an option
775[05:34:14] <SerajewelKS> !ssb
776[05:34:14] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename 4) apt -b source packagename 5) dpkg -i packagename-ver.deb To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
777[05:34:16] <SerajewelKS> Josh`: ^
778[05:34:27] <ninja> !rsync
779[05:34:27] <dpkg> somebody said rsync was a superior network file synchronization program. Handy for downloading a Linux kernel, e.g. rsync -avz --partial rsync.kernel.org::pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.29.3.tar.bz2 /usr/local/home/peej/src/ Useful for backups as per replaced-url
780[05:35:04] <Josh`> I havent quite 'figured out' backports yet. I'm a bit scared to go on my own.
781[05:35:09] <SerajewelKS> Josh`: basically if all of the sid package's build-depends are satisfied by stable, you can get the source package from sid and build the binary package for stable. this allows you to get stuff from sid without creating frakendebian.
782[05:35:35] <Josh`> so if that's all it takes, why would the package still be in sid?
783[05:35:43] <SerajewelKS> Josh`: depending on the complexity of the source package and its dependencies, the experience can range from "wait... that's it? i'm done?" to "fuck, this is never gonna work"
784[05:36:04] <SerajewelKS> Josh`: because there's a very narrow set of criteria for updating stuff in stable. stable means "doesn't change" not "doesn't crash."
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786[05:36:32] <ninja> replaced-url
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788[05:36:47] <ninja> very old but lets see if its about apt or not
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790[05:37:05] <SerajewelKS> basically security updates and critical fixes go into stable and that's it
791[05:37:06] <Josh`> I do understand that topic - branches are more about version change control rather than code resiliency
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793[05:37:29] <SerajewelKS> Josh`: the idea in debian is that it's hard for a sysadmin to keep on top of his systems when the packages are constantly upgrading
794[05:37:46] <SerajewelKS> Josh`: a known set of problems is easier to manage than a constantly-changing set of problems
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796[05:38:16] <Josh`> SerajewelKS, which is the exact reason I got away from using Gentoo. Well, that, and compile times.
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799[05:38:34] <SerajewelKS> Josh`: if your goal is to have the latest toys, you can try backporting from sid. alternatively, a rolling release distro could be what you're after.
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801[05:38:57] <SerajewelKS> Josh`: but if you just need the occasional new thing that's not in stable, then backporting is usually pretty feasible
802[05:39:09] <SerajewelKS> sometimes even just building from source and installing in /usr/local is the way to go
803[05:39:20] <SerajewelKS> packages are nice but they're not the only option
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805[05:39:34] <Josh`> Not really interested in latest, but I do get the odd project that has this dependancy that will be alpha 3 months from now.
806[05:39:52] <ninja> SerajewelKS: There is testing-security
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810[05:40:13] <SerajewelKS> ninja: i'm not sure how that relates in the slightest to anything i said...
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812[05:41:40] <Josh`> SerajewelKS, Thanks for opening my eyes. I need to upgrade this host, but I'll wait until I am in a better cognitive state. :) Nice to know that all I need to do to get back on debian-vanilla is upgrade to buster.
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816[05:43:24] <SerajewelKS> Josh`: np, good luck with the upgrade!
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818[05:43:32] <SerajewelKS> something always breaks... the question is how serious
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820[05:43:53] <alkisg> ,v firefox-esr
821[05:43:54] <judd> Package: firefox-esr on amd64 -- jessie: 52.8.1esr-1~deb8u1; stretch: 60.6.1esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-updates: 60.6.3esr-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 60.7.1esr-1~deb9u1; buster: 60.7.2esr-1; jessie-security: 60.8.0esr-1~deb8u1; stretch-security: 60.8.0esr-1~deb9u1; buster-proposed-updates: 60.8.0esr-1~deb10u1; buster-security: 60.8.0esr-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 60.8.0esr-1; sid:
822[05:43:55] <judd> 60.8.0esr-1
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824[05:44:19] <Josh`> Lately, my upgrades have been going smoothly. However, this host is the .. ahem.. "most complicated" setup I have.
825[05:44:26] *** Joins: hybrid (~hybrid@replaced-ip)
826[05:44:41] <Resilience> i have this message error: "ssh: connect to host <IP> port 22: Connection refused", this hhappens while I am trying to connect with a SECOND connection, not the first one, is it the configuration of my ssh server? or is it the router of my hosting service? how can I know?
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842[05:50:34] <_Random_> needs some help on debian distro, my Nvidia have crashed im in my system via command line at root
843[05:51:12] <_Random_> how can I repair the os with nvidia or open source drivers
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846[05:52:45] <ninja> do I need bind9-host ? I use systemd-{networkd,resolvd} for network.
847[05:53:47] <swamprock> _Random_: cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | less
848[05:53:57] <swamprock> _Random_: and look for errors
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858[05:58:23] <_Random_> failed to start nvidia & UnloadeModule "nvidia"
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860[05:58:45] <fraktor> I'm trying to install Debian, and everything seems to work, but the disk is not bootable after installation.
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862[05:58:57] <_Random_> unload submodule wfb & fb
863[05:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1517
864[05:59:12] <swamprock> ninja: systems handles your DNS server and lookup requests, so bind9-host isn't usually needed. I used to run across certain errors with bind9-host, as I had redundant DNS lookup scripts running for some weird reason. That was back when systems launched with Jessie
865[05:59:20] <_Random_> none have useable congfig
866[05:59:36] <fraktor> I'm using the guided option to set up an efi partition and then resizing them to suit my needs. what else can I try?
867[05:59:53] <swamprock> er... systemd
868[06:00:27] <swamprock> I need to turn off autocorrect
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871[06:00:49] <ninja> swamprock: purged
872[06:00:50] <_Random_> my gupu card is nvivia quadro k1200
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874[06:01:16] <ninja> fraktor: You can try manual option there if you wanna resize.
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876[06:01:29] <ninja> But I think you have to reboot now.
877[06:01:35] <ninja> to get it working
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879[06:01:45] <ninja> at least for me it happened.
880[06:01:54] <fraktor> To clarify, I've done that. I've rebooted several times, and each time my disk has been unbootable.
881[06:02:05] <ninja> or maybe execute a shell, and umount partitions
882[06:02:26] <ninja> fraktor: Go with guided partitioning then.
883[06:02:32] <ninja> You can resize later too.
884[06:02:42] <fraktor> I did that. still unbootable.
885[06:02:51] <swamprock> _Random_: Hold for a second. I'm checking something...
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888[06:04:35] <swamprock> _Random_: apt policy xserver-xorg-video-nouveau and see if that's installed
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894[06:07:11] <swamprock> _Random_: The nonfree firmware packages for AMD and Nvidia graphics cards have been split since Stretch, and I'm trying to find the Nvidia firmware package
895[06:08:08] <swamprock> _Random_: I think firmware-linux-nonfree is what you'll need, but you'll have to enable nonfree in apt
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897[06:09:43] <swamprock> _Random_: apt edit-sources, choose your preferred editor (I use nano), then add contrib non-free to the end of your repos. Control X to exit, select yes, then apt update.
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902[06:13:07] <swamprock> _Random_: Then apt install xserver-xorg-video-nouveau firmware-linux-nonfree then reboot
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904[06:13:49] <swamprock> _Random_: If that fixes your problem, THEN try the nvidia drivers from the web
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911[06:16:28] <swamprock> I need to read up on wayland. I know next to nothing about it
912[06:16:35] <swamprock> I'm still in xorg land
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917[06:20:56] <fraktor> Ninja: any other ideas?
918[06:21:22] *** Joins: crestfallen (~John@replaced-ip)
919[06:21:32] <ninja> fraktor: sorry I was away, can I see what's your problem?
920[06:22:58] <crestfallen> hello in xterm I have my cursor set to Ibeam, but it persists in block while in nvim editor. In my repl environment it is an Ibeam as expected. any clue? thanks
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922[06:23:18] <alkisg> !flash
923[06:23:18] <dpkg> Flash is frequently used to deliver interactivity, audio and video through a web browser. Ask me about <gnash> and <lightspark> for free implementations, or <adobe flash> and <pepper flash> for non-free implementations. replaced-url
924[06:25:15] <fraktor> ninja: no boot disk is found after I reboot from the installation
925[06:25:39] <ninja> fraktor: Did you install grub?
926[06:25:57] <fraktor> Yes, I did
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928[06:26:12] <ninja> crestfallen: Try this xresource and see if it works. replaced-url
929[06:26:41] <ninja> Don't you see grub screen?
930[06:26:51] <crestfallen> thanks ninja will do.
931[06:27:52] <ninja> crestfallen: You have to do like, `xrdb -merge My_Xresource_File`
932[06:28:19] <fraktor> nope. just a message from my BIOS/UEFI loader.
933[06:28:39] <ninja> what's that message?
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935[06:28:53] <crestfallen> ninja not sure what to do. can I pick out a set feature from the .vim or .vimrc files there?
936[06:28:58] <ninja> I think you choose wrong option for grub while installing
937[06:29:25] <ninja> crestfallen: There is also vimrc in dotfiles I mentioned earlier.
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939[06:29:40] <fraktor> there were no options for grub; it just did the installation
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941[06:29:57] <crestfallen> ok ninja the set feature I need will be obvious?
942[06:30:04] <CaptainDusty> fraktor: The last step of install, asking where you want to install your boot loader...? What did you select?
943[06:30:13] <ninja> fraktor: I don't use grub or any other boot managers, but I was installing debian in a friend machine a few days ago and I saw it was asking me to install it on a USB drive by default. Maybe you hit that option.
944[06:30:33] <ninja> CaptainDusty: yeah that's it.
945[06:30:36] <CaptainDusty> ^^
946[06:30:44] <CaptainDusty> As per ninja, the last step is, imho; stupid.
947[06:30:52] <CaptainDusty> It used to be much clearer in previous versions.
948[06:31:31] <ninja> yeah like most users are most likely gonna hit enter at that.
949[06:31:45] <CaptainDusty> But the default option is skip or something. It's really really stupid.
950[06:31:48] <swamprock> Is that from the graphical install?
951[06:31:58] <CaptainDusty> I don't use the graphical installer.
952[06:31:59] <ninja> yeah from graphical.
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956[06:32:19] <CaptainDusty> Right. it must be in both, which is logical.
957[06:32:19] <fraktor> it's a netinst image btw
958[06:32:20] <swamprock> Capt- yeah same. I use the text installer
959[06:32:28] <ninja> me too. It confuses me as I don't know many terms in gui :)
960[06:32:40] <CaptainDusty> fraktor: netinst is the right choice ;) Esp if you have a local proxy setup.
961[06:32:53] <ninja> same image I use but I use latest one from testing release.
962[06:32:58] <CaptainDusty> fraktor: There's a step that asks about where you want the boot loader installed. Do you remember which you chose?
963[06:33:10] <fraktor> it doesn't ask me that
964[06:33:29] <CaptainDusty> fraktor: Ummmmmmm... hmmm. Are you sure? It's like.. one of the last options?
965[06:33:32] <swamprock> You have to make sure you set that partition as /boot as well
966[06:33:55] <ninja> fraktor: reboot to installation media, and go to install grub option. I think it will guide you if some options were necessary to proceed.
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968[06:34:20] <fraktor> I'm doing a reinstallation now
969[06:34:28] <CaptainDusty> fraktor: niiice :D
970[06:34:42] <fraktor> which partition must be bootable? the efi one?
971[06:34:48] <swamprock> I'vemade the mistake of settingup a boot partiton, but not setting it to /boot
972[06:34:50] <ninja> Like I said way earlier, if you choose guided partitioning, then resized partitions, it is gonna bad things happen.
973[06:35:32] <ninja> if you choose guided partitioning, you don't need something.
974[06:35:40] <fraktor> I'm choosing manual now.
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976[06:36:00] <ninja> fraktor: You're not mature enough to deal with it :)
977[06:36:17] <ninja> At least I'm not with this graphical installer. In command line, I can.
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979[06:36:26] <fraktor> I'll switch to that then
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981[06:36:47] <CaptainDusty> fraktor: What tweaks are you applying to your partitioning? Honestly; I've never really needed to.
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985[06:37:15] <CaptainDusty> I find the defaults quite reasonable. Both separate /var/tmp, etc - and all in one partition lol
986[06:37:24] <fraktor> larger /, smaller /home
987[06:37:29] <ninja> even I use complete encryption with lvm. but once it did partitioning, I was satisfied.
988[06:37:48] <ninja> CaptainDusty: same goes with encrypted install.
989[06:37:59] <CaptainDusty> ninja: ^^ Agreed.
990[06:38:03] *** Joins: Prints (~333@replaced-ip)
991[06:38:04] <CaptainDusty> Encrypted LUKS.
992[06:38:08] <CaptainDusty> There's no other option!
993[06:38:12] <CaptainDusty> lol
994[06:38:19] <swamprock> I usually use guided, but then change the swap partition size to something a little more sane based on the amount of memory the machine has
995[06:38:35] <ninja> I have only one issue, I don't want another ext2 partition, I use EFISTUB so I deleted it once Installation was complete.
996[06:38:45] <CaptainDusty> Oh ha.
997[06:38:48] <CaptainDusty> Fair enough.
998[06:39:17] <ninja> for me it created encrypted swap same as system memory.
999[06:39:22] <fraktor> I'll do guided and leave it alone. it's probably fine
1000[06:39:42] <ninja> replaced-url
1001[06:40:03] <CaptainDusty> fraktor: It's totally fine :P
1002[06:40:24] <CaptainDusty> swap from memory is default, iirc?
1003[06:40:43] <ninja> fraktor: nice but you will be asked to hit finish partitioning. Don't forget that.
1004[06:40:44] <annadane> people still use ext2?
1005[06:41:04] <ninja> annadane: ext2 is created during installation for boot.
1006[06:41:14] <annadane> oh right
1007[06:41:16] <annadane> yes
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1009[06:41:52] <ninja> if you have a phone, take a pic and upload it to some pastebin like imgur and paste URL here so someone will guide you. fraktor
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1012[06:42:33] <fraktor> will do when I get there
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1014[06:43:19] <fraktor> ugh slow internet
1015[06:43:50] <CaptainDusty> fraktor: For your next project; apt-cacher-ng
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1018[06:45:15] <crestfallen> ninja please see line 38. this didn't change the cursor shape within nvim to IBeam. thanks
1019[06:45:23] <crestfallen> replaced-url
1020[06:46:51] <ninja> crestfallen: I don't have nvim. lemme install both of them and maybe then I'll be able to help
1021[06:47:51] <ninja> You don't want red cursor right?
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1023[06:49:05] <crestfallen> no red thanks just white (with my black background) ninja thanks
1024[06:49:34] <ninja> in only nvim? for me in xterm, its also red.
1025[06:50:37] <crestfallen> I have a haskell package in nvim . when I upgraded to buster, the cursor changed shape
1026[06:51:31] <ninja> replaced-url
1027[06:52:09] <crestfallen> that's the underscore cursor. I'd like the IBeam which is vertical
1028[06:53:05] <crestfallen> there is a setting in init.vim called ' set guicursor= ' . I'm working on that now
1029[06:53:24] <ninja> replaced-url
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1037[07:01:30] <alkisg> On stretch, I'm trying to lock apt so that `apt install` etc will be temporarily disabled. I run `flock /var/lib/dpkg/lock bash`, and yet apt install etc works fine. On the other hand, if I have synaptic open, `apt install` does fail. How can I really lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock?
1038[07:01:51] <crestfallen> weird ninja , in nvim with haskell I got it to work with set ' guicursor= ' (no numeral). but in nvim while editing the .vim config file, its still a block! (until you go into insert mode)
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1043[07:08:22] <themill> alkisg: dpkg doesn't use flock(2) it uses fcntl(2) for locking. (Also, why do you want to do this? It's a very unusual thing to do. This is not a public interface of dpkg's.)
1044[07:09:23] <alkisg> themill: thank you; in ltsp, we want to temporarily lock apt in order to create a squashfs image out of the server's /, so since there's no support for snapshots, lock apt is the best we can do to prevent the user from shooting himself in the foot
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1047[07:13:14] <fraktor> finally got photos: replaced-url
1048[07:13:35] <fraktor> ninja CaptainDusty
1049[07:14:38] <ninja> fraktor: I asked for a pic when you are done with partitioning.
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1053[07:19:07] <themill> alkisg: lckdo from moreutils implements fcntl if memory serves me correctly.
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1055[07:19:43] <alkisg> themill: thank you, testing; so far I was looking if I could use dpkg itself, maybe with a --pre-hook=bash, so that I stall there until I'm done, and pkill it later
1056[07:21:35] <alkisg> themill: thank you very much; that works fine! (I'll try dpkg for a bit though in case I can avoid the moreutils dependency)
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1058[07:22:26] <themill> I'd suggest interacting with the apt and dpkg developers on this as they are generally responsive to thinking about how they can expose private things through a public API
1059[07:22:49] <fraktor> ninja. oops. what's the information I'm looking for?
1060[07:24:25] <newtodeb> hello, what ftp service are you recommending for a debian newbie?
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1062[07:25:01] <newtodeb> or should i use samba? looking for a cheap NAS solution
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1064[07:26:41] <Arahael> Definitely samba.
1065[07:27:12] <Arahael> Unless it's internet facing?
1066[07:27:22] <Arahael> If so, probably sftp.
1067[07:27:31] <Arahael> (Which just requires ssh)
1068[07:28:05] <fraktor> replaced-url
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1072[07:29:42] <newtodeb> its not entirley used in my own network, acess should be possible from outside my network
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1109[07:58:39] <diogenes_> Hello guys, what would be a good way ro remove duplicates from a text file? for instance if in the same file, there's two occurrences of libpango-1.0-0 (>= 1.14.0) or more, only one to be left?
1110[07:59:55] <bad_cat> diogenes_: uniq(1p) or uniq(1)
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1112[08:00:28] <diogenes_> bad_cat, uniq(1p) textfile?
1113[08:00:41] <bad_cat> diogenes_: it's a man page
1114[08:00:52] <bad_cat> foo(1) means "man page for foo in section 1"
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1116[08:01:03] <diogenes_> oh thanks, gonna have a look.
1117[08:01:15] <alkisg> diogenes_: looking for duplicate lines or duplicate words? you might need to convert words into lines first
1118[08:01:49] <diogenes_> alkisg, how to do that?
1119[08:02:01] <bad_cat> oh, duplicate words...?
1120[08:02:14] <alkisg> diogenes_: checking for duplicate words is a lot more complex, so it'd best if you pasted specific content
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1124[08:02:33] <alkisg> E.g. is "1.14.0" a word? Do you really want to remove it if found elsewhere?
1125[08:02:46] <diogenes_> yeah i guess it would be a problem because the entire line to be removed involves a space.
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1128[08:03:37] <alkisg> E.g. if it's a list of dependencies, you'd need a small script to convert them into "same" lines first, before using uniq or sort -u later
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1130[08:04:25] <bad_cat> diogenes_: how are you generating the output, though? perhaps there is a more script-friendly way to generate a list of packages
1131[08:04:38] <bad_cat> (also, what's the goal here? feels a bit like an XY problem...)
1132[08:04:41] <diogenes_> alkisg, yes, a list of dependencies for a control file.
1133[08:05:11] <diogenes_> bad_cat, i'm building a kind of a frankenstein package with lots of dependecies so that's why i need it to remove the duplicates.
1134[08:05:41] <alkisg> diogenes_: in that case, "comma" is your "word separator", so you need a bash command to put each dependency in a separate line first; then just sort -u
1135[08:06:32] <diogenes_> alkisg, ok thanks, will search how to do that.
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1138[08:07:39] <alkisg> diogenes_: echo $(apt show mate-desktop | grep Depends) | tr ',' '\n' | sort -u
1139[08:07:57] <alkisg> Try that in any package; it should give you a good starting command; it might also fit your content too
1140[08:08:24] <diogenes_> trying...
1141[08:08:30] <alkisg> I.e. you echo all the lines, to remove extra spaces and enters; then you replace , with enter
1142[08:09:20] <alkisg> text="your depends text, with a lot of lines"; echo $text | tr ',' '\n' | sort -u
1143[08:09:28] <alkisg> I.e. don't put quotes around $text there
1144[08:09:45] <diogenes_> that's a good one, thanks alkisg
1145[08:09:49] <alkisg> np
1146[08:10:41] <alkisg> To put back commas at the end of the lines, append this: | sed 's/$/,/'
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1148[08:11:00] <diogenes_> copied
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1191[08:44:45] <z8z> during the Debian upgrade to 10 i'm being asked about the MiniSSDP daemon configuration
1192[08:44:59] <z8z> Should the daemon be enabled at boot?
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1261[09:20:14] <ZeroBeholder> #gitea
1262[09:20:51] <ZeroBeholder> Bah, was attempting to join a different channel. False alarm...
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1266[09:23:08] <jelly> z8z: it's possible you don't need minissdpd at all and some other package pulled it in
1267[09:23:36] <jelly> z8z: run "aptitude why minissdpd" after the release upgrade is done
1268[09:24:22] <z8z> jelly: aptitute why does what exactly?
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1271[09:25:23] <jelly> shows a possible reason why a package got installed
1272[09:25:36] <z8z> oh ok
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1274[09:25:50] <z8z> it's actually default in debian 9
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1276[09:26:01] <z8z> i tested from clean debian 9 installation
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1279[09:26:21] <jelly> that seems unlikely. Maybe if you install Gnome?
1280[09:26:33] *** Joins: kouett (~kouett@replaced-ip)
1281[09:26:43] <z8z> yes with desktop
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1288[09:27:51] <jelly> Gnome has lots of weird dependencies.
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1290[09:28:25] <z8z> I mean... the default desktop given by debian 9
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1293[09:28:55] <z8z> so should i remove it before the upgrade?
1294[09:29:01] <z8z> or after?
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1301[09:35:35] <jelly> if you're already in the middle of the upgrade "before" is not an option
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1304[09:38:16] <z8z> no i'm checking before starting
1305[09:38:23] <z8z> is it better to remove it?
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1310[09:40:03] <z8z> oh transmission package uses it
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1314[09:42:04] <humpled> yup same here
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1317[09:42:58] <z8z> I uninstalled transmission and his dependences
1318[09:43:04] <z8z> Will upgrade and install it back
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1323[09:45:39] <yokowka> heavenO everysoul!
1324[09:46:34] <yokowka> how to run installed game which not starts up?
1325[09:47:39] <at0m> yokowka: start it from a command line. see what it prints there, that should explain some
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1327[09:48:49] <humpled> there's more to this than meets the eye
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1329[09:49:44] <z8z> Ok i go for the upgrade
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1338[09:56:28] <yokowka> at0m, here prints replaced-url
1339[09:58:19] <at0m> yokowka: seems it doesn't find libpng12
1340[09:58:30] <at0m> ,v libpng12
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1342[09:58:30] <judd> No package named 'libpng12' was found in amd64.
1343[09:58:34] <at0m> ,v libpng16
1344[09:58:35] <judd> No package named 'libpng16' was found in amd64.
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1346[09:59:34] <at0m> yokowka: you could install one from replaced-url
1347[09:59:43] *** Joins: progart (~kamee@replaced-ip)
1348[09:59:49] <yokowka> i look now
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1350[10:00:03] <at0m> download then as root, dpkg -i libpng12*.deb
1351[10:00:05] *** Joins: centrix (~t4nk811@replaced-ip)
1352[10:00:56] <at0m> yokowka: then start the game again from command line, and see the next error, if any.
1353[10:01:13] *** Joins: tdn (~tdn@replaced-ip)
1354[10:01:17] <at0m> dpkg: tell yokowka about paste
1355[10:01:59] <at0m> yokowka: no need to paste screenshots for text, see what dpkg bot told you
1356[10:02:06] <tdn> I installed Debian 10 on a remote box. When I installed, I opted to install a desktop env. Thus, network seems to be managed by network manager and not /etc/network/interfaces. Now I am remote and I need to change the network config (from DHCP to static IP). How to do this?
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1358[10:02:31] <yokowka> at0m, in link no package fo debian buster
1359[10:02:48] <at0m> yokowka: then try from an older debian version
1360[10:02:52] *** Joins: Bodiro (~quassel@replaced-ip)
1361[10:02:56] <yokowka> doing
1362[10:03:14] *** Joins: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip)
1363[10:03:20] <at0m> tdn: i don't use network manager, but from what i understand, network manager skips the interfaces defined in /etc/network/interfaces.
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1366[10:03:55] <tdn> at0m, so I can just enter the interface inside /etc/network/interfaces, and then reboot and it will work?
1367[10:04:15] <tdn> at0m, can't I just somehow change NMs config through editing a text file?
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1369[10:05:26] <at0m> tdn: no need to even reboot. hold on cycling the interface until i explained here below. since it's a remote machine, you don't want this to fail
1370[10:05:59] *** Joins: ZaZaGX (kenny@replaced-ip)
1371[10:06:03] <yokowka> at0m, one question: there in link three packages install them all?
1372[10:06:19] *** Joins: toxync12 (~toxync12@replaced-ip)
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1374[10:06:49] <at0m> yokowka: if libpng12 depends on them, yes. if it's just recommendations, you can see how far you get
1375[10:07:24] *** Joins: guest278776 (~u@replaced-ip)
1376[10:07:47] <at0m> tdn: are you familiar with screen or tmux?
1377[10:08:23] <tdn> at0m, yes, I use screen already as I am aware that I probably need to do something like DO_SOMETHING && sleep 10 || ABORT_STEPS
1378[10:08:32] <at0m> tdn: you'd want to run the following in either screen or tmux, so the commands can continue to run in the background
1379[10:08:36] <at0m> right
1380[10:08:39] <tdn> at0m, at least that is what I typically do while changing firewall rules via ssh
1381[10:08:43] <at0m> tdn: cp /etc/network/interfaces /etc/network/interfaces.bak then add the interface to /etc/network/interfaces.
1382[10:08:49] <at0m> tdn: great
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1385[10:10:06] <at0m> so my general fail-safe method is to apply the changes, set up a sleep indeed that undoes the changes in case they failed. set sleep to 2mins or something confortable. once it worked and you're back in, you can abort the undo
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1387[10:11:49] <at0m> tdn: for example ifdown eth0; ifup eth0; sleep 2m; cat /etc/network/interfaces.bak > /etc/network/interfaces ; ifdown eth0 ; ifup eth0
1388[10:12:23] <at0m> ok ifup and ifdown are probably deprecated by now. ip should be the right way to do it. meh.
1389[10:12:26] <tdn> at0m, appearently the iface is named enp0s31f6. Is this a new naming scheme in debian 10??
1390[10:12:49] <at0m> tdn: yes then use that iface name
1391[10:13:13] <at0m> replaced-url
1392[10:13:53] <at0m> (tl;dr, this prevents name changes to ifaces when other ifaces are added or removed)
1393[10:13:53] <tdn> at0m, ifdown enp0s31f6 ; ifup enp0s31f6; sleep 120; cat /etc/network/interfaces.bak > /etc/network/interfaces ; ifdown enp0s31f6 ; ifup enp0s31f6
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1395[10:14:22] <at0m> tdn: right. at worst, that doesn't work, but at least all will be restored then
1396[10:14:23] <tdn> at0m, do ifup/down still work tough?
1397[10:14:26] <tdn> thoug
1398[10:14:30] <tdn> though even :)
1399[10:14:51] <tdn> "ifdown: interface enp0s31f6 not configured
1400[10:14:52] <tdn> "
1401[10:14:57] <tdn> Then machine stops responding.
1402[10:15:07] <tdn> I will now wait for two minutes. Hopefully it will work.
1403[10:15:36] <at0m> for example i don't know if networkmanager needs restarting between such interfaces edit
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1405[10:16:01] <at0m> but yea the machine should come back
1406[10:16:09] <at0m> you can even try to ssh in already
1407[10:16:39] <tdn> at0m, oh. Appearently I did not lose connection. It is still there.
1408[10:17:16] <tdn> So why does it say it is not configured?
1409[10:17:47] <at0m> once back in, abort that sleep and undo routine
1410[10:17:53] <at0m> hmm not sure
1411[10:18:05] <tdn> at0m, Im back in and undid it all
1412[10:18:13] <tdn> at0m, then I made the changes to interfaces once again
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1416[10:19:23] <at0m> tdn: maybe wait for someone who's actually familiar with network manager then. idk if it needs to be stopped, for example
1417[10:19:23] *** Joins: MySecondNick (~MySecondN@replaced-ip)
1418[10:19:45] <at0m> but at least you got a method to fiddle and undo in screen using that sleep thing
1419[10:19:45] <tdn> at0m, yeah, that was why I proposed a reboot. But not sure if that is enough.
1420[10:19:55] <tdn> at0m, not sure if I need to "delete" it from NMs config somehow
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1424[10:20:52] <at0m> i have no idea, Network Manager's caps alone scared me plenty to stay away from it
1425[10:21:04] <tdn> at0m, hah me too!
1426[10:21:04] *** Quits: XmmD (~XmmD@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
1427[10:21:17] <MySecondNick> Hey guys! Can you tell me what are the differences between amd64, i386 and other architectures? On Windows it is straight forward - I have 32-bit and 64-bit Windows, but I don't know which to download from the website. I want to have 64-bit functionality. I will have Intel i5-8250U mobile processor. Any help in choosing my architecture (if it even is architecture)?
1428[10:21:20] *** Joins: XmmD (~XmmD@replaced-ip)
1429[10:21:30] <tdn> at0m, if I just reboot now with iface added to interfaces file, wont it just either work with the new address; OR work as normally with NM managing the iface?
1430[10:21:33] *** Quits: Josh` (~fuxxy@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
1431[10:21:41] <at0m> MySecondNick: that's amd64 then.
1432[10:21:47] <tdn> MySecondNick, amd64 is 64 bit, i386 is 32 bit
1433[10:21:59] <MySecondNick> at0m tdn what are the other ones alongside them?
1434[10:21:59] *** Joins: Zvmdyv (~Zvmdyv@replaced-ip)
1435[10:22:09] *** Joins: progart (~kamee@replaced-ip)
1436[10:22:09] <MySecondNick> like armel, mips etc?
1437[10:22:20] <kouett> Tdn: I think ifdown says not configured because the interface config is not managed by ifup/idown
1438[10:22:28] <tdn> MySecondNick, other architectures. Google them for more info. If you dont know them, you do not need them :)
1439[10:22:35] <at0m> MySecondNick: replaced-url
1440[10:22:53] <tdn> kouett, how do ifup/ifdown determine that?
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1442[10:23:12] <kouett> So maybe using ip addr flush and ip link set down and then ifup with new conf file would work
1443[10:23:18] <MySecondNick> tdn at0m do I need 3 DVD's to install the new Debian 10.0 on my machine?
1444[10:23:55] <at0m> MySecondNick: not at all. if you got network, it will download your selection of packages as needed
1445[10:24:11] *** Quits: corvo (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1446[10:24:22] <at0m> MySecondNick: one CD should be enough. you can put it on a usb stick, even, see.. (hold on)
1447[10:24:23] <tdn> MySecondNick, if you have network, just download the network install image. It is 2-300 MB IIRC
1448[10:24:24] <MySecondNick> at0m Oh. So I can just download DVD-1 from replaced-url
1449[10:24:38] <MySecondNick> I have a DVD
1450[10:24:42] <kouett> Tdn: not sure but maybe by checking if there is an entry about the interface in /etc/network/interfaces
1451[10:24:45] <at0m> not even dvd. fwiw, i always go from the netinstall.iso
1452[10:24:47] <MySecondNick> so I can just download the DVD version, no problem
1453[10:24:58] <tdn> kouett, but I just added an entry to there.
1454[10:25:00] <at0m> why waste plastic =)
1455[10:25:09] <MySecondNick> at0m Well I already bought it :)
1456[10:25:12] *** Quits: dasj19 (~dasj19@replaced-ip) (Quit: dasj19)
1457[10:25:17] <MySecondNick> do you guys here develop Debian?
1458[10:25:18] <kouett> Personally I don't use NM, just plain ifup/ifdown
1459[10:25:18] *** Joins: AgTh (~b50c6@replaced-ip)
1460[10:25:52] <at0m> MySecondNick: varies. most would be just users like yourself in a bit
1461[10:26:01] <MySecondNick> at0m I already am an user :)
1462[10:26:05] <MySecondNick> I am on Debian 9
1463[10:26:16] <MySecondNick> Been using it for a year now
1464[10:26:18] <MySecondNick> I LOVE it
1465[10:26:24] <at0m> MySecondNick: then you don't need to reinstall from dvd
1466[10:26:28] <MySecondNick> it is so stable compared to Ubuntu in terms of the system from crashing
1467[10:26:35] <MySecondNick> at0m I am getting a new PC
1468[10:26:37] <MySecondNick> :)
1469[10:27:27] <at0m> MySecondNick: oh cool. also 64bit? i mean you can transfer a lot or all of your current install to the new machine
1470[10:27:37] <MySecondNick> at0m rather not
1471[10:27:43] <MySecondNick> I want to start from a "clean slate"
1472[10:27:45] <at0m> unlike windows, you can often just put the old disk in the new machine and continue to work
1473[10:27:47] *** Quits: orotalt (~orotalt@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1474[10:27:50] <MySecondNick> will re-install the packages manually
1475[10:27:57] <MySecondNick> and backup my important files
1476[10:27:59] <at0m> (notwithstanding soem specific non-free firmware)
1477[10:28:02] *** Quits: achen_ (~thefatma@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
1478[10:28:02] *** Quits: thefatma (~thefatma@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
1479[10:28:05] <at0m> *some
1480[10:28:28] <MySecondNick> Debian is honestly IMO so much better than Ubuntu it is crazy
1481[10:28:44] <MySecondNick> it is much more stable in the sense that it works for a year without crashing
1482[10:28:44] <kouett> Tdn: ok so maybe it relies on temp files also, I don't really know. The point is you can't "ifdown" an interface if it was not brought up by ifup, so you have to do it manually (via the "ip" commands)
1483[10:28:47] <MySecondNick> Ubuntu crashes
1484[10:28:49] <MySecondNick> a lot
1485[10:28:51] <at0m> MySecondNick: ok. be sure to get your /home, and probably a copy of /etc and /var/lib/ will help restoring settings and databases
1486[10:29:08] <MySecondNick> at0m OK
1487[10:29:15] <MySecondNick> I intend to read the book on Linux OS
1488[10:29:19] *** Quits: centrix (~t4nk811@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
1489[10:29:24] <at0m> you can tarbal those to a usb stick or so
1490[10:29:24] <MySecondNick> What Every Superuser should know
1491[10:29:41] *** Joins: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip)
1492[10:29:44] <tdn> at0m, I just did this: replaced-url
1493[10:29:53] <tdn> at0m, it is sleeping at this point.
1494[10:29:58] <MySecondNick> thank you at0m and tdn
1495[10:30:06] <MySecondNick> I will leave now to methodically backup my files
1496[10:30:12] <MySecondNick> but thank you so much
1497[10:30:16] <MySecondNick> have a nice day
1498[10:30:24] <tdn> kouett, how to do that with ip?
1499[10:30:40] *** Quits: MySecondNick (~MySecondN@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
1500[10:30:54] <tdn> kouett, I just tried this: replaced-url
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1503[10:32:17] <kouett> Tdn: with ip you do: ip addr flush dev "int name"; ip link set down dev "int name"
1504[10:32:19] <tdn> If I ping the new static IP address, it DOES reply when I ping it from the machine itself. However, if I ping from another host on the network, this new IP does NOT reply
1505[10:32:53] <kouett> Tdn: is your netmask correct?
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1507[10:32:57] *** Quits: aviany (~aviany@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1508[10:32:58] <tdn> kouett, so do I just put that in instaed of ifup/ifdown?
1509[10:33:08] <tdn> kouett, I think so?
1510[10:33:34] *** Quits: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
1511[10:33:37] <tdn> kouett, oh. Actually, first time it did this, I used wrong netmask: 255.255.254.0 instead of 255.255.255.0
1512[10:33:41] <kouett> Tdn: the "ip" commands are for replacing the "ifdown" part only
1513[10:35:43] <at0m> kouett: anything ifup/ifdown/ifconfig, i think
1514[10:35:53] <tdn> Will this be safe: service network-manager restart ; ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set up dev enp0s31f6; sleep 120; cat /etc/network/interfaces.bak > /etc/network/interfaces ; ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set up dev enp0s31f6 ; sleep 5; service network-manager restart
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1516[10:36:02] <tdn> Not sure if the entire command went through?
1517[10:36:11] <tdn> replaced-url
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1520[10:36:32] <ayekat> at0m: ifup and ifdown are for interacting with ifupdown - ifconfig is an independent tool (that has been deprecated in favour of ip on linux-based systems)
1521[10:36:58] <at0m> ayekat: ok, thanks. i'm getting old on linux :>
1522[10:37:31] <at0m> yea it did come through. but why restart NM if you can stop it (and start it with the restore routine)
1523[10:37:39] <at0m> tdn: ^
1524[10:37:52] <tdn> at0m, good point. Will change it
1525[10:38:09] <at0m> tdn: effort is to get rid of NM eventually, right
1526[10:38:18] <tdn> at0m, I restarted just to verify that NM and the static interfaces can indeed co-exist.
1527[10:38:25] <tdn> Otherwise I will have a problem on next reboot
1528[10:38:35] <tdn> service network-manager stop ; ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set up dev enp0s31f6; sleep 120; cat /etc/network/interfaces.bak > /etc/network/interfaces ; ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set up dev enp0s31f6 ; sleep 5; service network-manager start
1529[10:38:40] <tdn> ^ correct?
1530[10:38:58] <at0m> this isn't windows, no need to reboot. unless kernel update..
1531[10:39:07] <at0m> idk, not familiar with ip like that
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1533[10:39:22] <ayekat> wat - does NM even interact with /etc/network/interfaces? Ô_ò
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1535[10:40:16] <at0m> < at0m> tdn: i don't use network manager, but from what i understand, network manager skips the interfaces defined in /etc/network/interfaces.
1536[10:40:58] *** Joins: bertbob (~bertbob@replaced-ip)
1537[10:41:03] <ayekat> /etc/network/interfaces is for ifupdown - NetworkManager AFAIK completely ignores that file
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1541[10:41:21] <at0m> ah
1542[10:41:25] <tdn> ayekat, does 'ip' not use that file?
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1544[10:41:33] <at0m> ayekat: tdn is working on a remote machine, no physical access. hence the restore routine in the command line
1545[10:41:50] <ayekat> tdn: ip doesn't use any file - it's a utility for directly manipulating network interfaces
1546[10:42:04] <tdn> ayekat, ok
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1548[10:42:47] <tdn> ayekat, ok, so the command above will just end up in no network at all? Because I bring it down with "ip" and then it is never brought up with ifup?
1549[10:43:12] <ayekat> tdn: honestly, I think I'll have to read the backlog to understand what you're trying to do there
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1553[10:43:47] <ayekat> but mixing NM, ifupdown and manual ip commands sounds like a recipe for disaster if you don't know exactly what you're doing - especially on a remote machine
1554[10:44:24] <tdn> ayekat, I don't. But it sounds like you do :)
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1557[10:45:04] <ayekat> tdn: how do you currently manage your network? with NetworkManager?
1558[10:45:52] <ayekat> tdn: the problem is I don't know NetworkManager too well either (I believe that there's a CLI utility, `nm-tui` or `nm-cli` or something), so I can't help very well either
1559[10:46:07] <tdn> ayekat, I just installed debian 10 on a machine and opted for installing a desktop env. Thus, network ended up being managed by NM
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1561[10:46:12] <ayekat> but I know that mixing different network management utilities usually doesn't end up well
1562[10:46:30] <tdn> ayekat, now I need to change the network config to a static IP on a different network from currently using NM and DHCP
1563[10:46:57] <ayekat> tdn: OK - so I wouldn't bother touching /etc/network/interfaces (AFAIK only the `lo` part should stay in there) - and I believe there are ways of telling NM to set a static IP address
1564[10:47:40] <tdn> ayekat, how to do that remotely?
1565[10:47:42] <ayekat> use `ip` commands only if you are not using any network management tool (or you want to temporarily bypass NM/ifupdown/networkd/…)
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1567[10:48:19] <ayekat> tdn: as I said, I don't know - I think there is a tool called `nm-cli` to interact with NetworkManager on the command line
1568[10:48:31] <tdn> ayekat, there is "nmcli"
1569[10:48:34] <ayekat> but someone more familiar with NetworkManager would need to give their insight
1570[10:48:35] <tdn> ayekat, and nmtui
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1572[10:49:56] <tdn> ayekat, so what if I want to effectively go from NM manged network to ifupdown managed network? Can't I do this?
1573[10:50:11] <tdn> ayekat, it is not that I want to "mix" them. I really just want to get rid of NM
1574[10:50:20] <tdn> ayekat, AND change network
1575[10:50:44] <ZaZaGX> !sources non free
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1578[10:51:38] <ZaZaGX> the hell
1579[10:51:41] <ayekat> tdn: yes, you *can* switch
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1581[10:52:33] <ayekat> tdn: I guess you can first configure ifupdown (i.e. /etc/network/interfaces), then stop NM and `ifup {interface}` in one line
1582[10:52:55] <ayekat> tdn: but if something goes wrong, you're locked out - have you got any alternative way of accessing that machine? (e.g. serial console, or VNC)
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1584[10:53:22] <at0m> ayekat: hence the undo routine in the one-liner
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1586[10:53:36] <at0m> ayekat: running in a screen session with sleep timer
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1590[10:54:05] <tdn> ayekat, that is exactly what we are trying to do.
1591[10:54:17] <tdn> ayekat, I have no other way to access the machine.
1592[10:54:25] <tdn> VNC uses network too, right?
1593[10:54:31] <at0m> if it worked, tdn can log in and cancel the undo, if it didn't, changes will be undone
1594[10:54:52] <at0m> tdn: nope it uses neutrino radiation networking /s
1595[10:55:07] <at0m> ok that's network, to
1596[10:55:09] <at0m> too
1597[10:55:12] <tdn> :)
1598[10:55:18] <ayekat> tdn: yes, but I am assuming here that the VNC server is running on dom0 (and your machine there is running in a virtualised environment)
1599[10:55:47] <tdn> at0m, kouett: So I guess we are back to the same approach. The command below will not bring the network back up, right? Due to missing calls to "ifup". Is that correct?
1600[10:55:50] <tdn> service network-manager stop ; ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set up dev enp0s31f6; sleep 120; cat /etc/network/interfaces.bak > /etc/network/interfaces ; ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set up dev enp0s31f6 ; sleep 5; service network-manager start
1601[10:56:08] <tdn> ayekat, this is a physical machine
1602[10:56:32] <ayekat> tdn: the problem is that `ip link set dev ... up` doesn't configure the interface at all - it just sets it to "up", but doesn't set any IP address
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1605[10:57:01] <tdn> ayekat, so I need to add 'ifup' after that then?
1606[10:57:23] <kouett> Tdn: This could work: systemctl stop network-manager && ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 && ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 && ifup enp0s31f6; sleep 2m; ifdown enp0s31f6; cp /etc/network/interfaces.bak /etc/network/interfaces; systemctl start network-manager
1607[10:57:23] <tdn> service network-manager stop ; ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set up dev enp0s31f6; sleep 120; cat /etc/network/interfaces.bak > /etc/network/interfaces ; ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set up dev enp0s31f6 ; ifup enp0s31f6; sleep 120; service network-manager start
1608[10:57:25] <ayekat> tdn: ifup will only work if /etc/network/interfaces is configured correctly - but I assume that is already the case?
1609[10:57:36] <tdn> ayekat, I think so, yes.
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1611[10:57:42] <ayekat> kouett's approach seems more reasonable there
1612[10:58:11] <tdn> ayekat, isn't that the one I am trying in that command?
1613[10:58:36] <ayekat> tdn: no, you've got `ip link set dev ... up`, while it should rather be `ifup ...`
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1615[10:58:47] <kouett> Tdn: just to be sure, your .bak file contains the unmodified file?
1616[10:58:49] <ayekat> (because you want ifupdown to manage that interface)
1617[10:58:56] <tdn> ayekat, yes
1618[10:59:00] <tdn> kouett, yes
1619[10:59:19] <tdn> ayekat, so I change to this:
1620[10:59:20] <tdn> service network-manager stop ; ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set up dev enp0s31f6; sleep 120; cat /etc/network/interfaces.bak > /etc/network/interfaces ; ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 ; ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 ; ifup enp0s31f6; sleep 120; service network-manager start
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1623[10:59:36] <ayekat> tdn: what, no - read kouett's command line
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1625[10:59:59] *** Joins: orotalt (~orotalt@replaced-ip)
1626[11:00:01] <tdn> Oh. Did not see that one
1627[11:00:20] <ayekat> tdn: the general idea is (1) stop NM, (2) start ifupdown, (3) wait, (4) stop ifupdown, (5) start NM
1628[11:00:57] <ayekat> if you can log during (3), everything went fine, otherwise (4) and (5) will roll back the changes
1629[11:01:04] <ayekat> if (4) and (5) fail, you're out of luck
1630[11:01:24] <tdn> Ok. I am ready to try "systemctl stop network-manager && ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 && ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 && ifup enp0s31f6; sleep 2m; ifdown enp0s31f6; cp /etc/network/interfaces.bak /etc/network/interfaces; systemctl start network-manager" unless any objections?
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1633[11:02:20] <tdn> If I run this, and I can SSH into the machine on the new address. Then I resume the screen and Ctrl+C the command, right?
1634[11:02:29] <tdn> And then completely uninstall networkmanager somehow?
1635[11:02:34] <ayekat> tdn: looks fine - just curious what /etc/network/interfaces and /etc/network/interfaces.bak currently look like
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1638[11:04:20] <tdn> ayekat, replaced-url
1639[11:04:20] *** Joins: Elirips (~Elirips@replaced-ip)
1640[11:04:56] <ayekat> looks reasonable
1641[11:05:01] *** Quits: Gazooo (~Gazooo@replaced-ip##) (Quit: The Lounge - ##replaced-url
1642[11:05:21] <tdn> OK. Here we go.
1643[11:05:26] <ayekat> (at least the .bak one - I'm not familiar enough with ifupdown to assess the first one)
1644[11:06:58] *** Joins: Gazooo (~Gazooo@replaced-ip)
1645[11:07:34] <tdn> Well...I lost the connection alright.... SO now I am waiting. Hopefully it will come back up
1646[11:08:23] *** Joins: __marco (~marco@replaced-ip)
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1648[11:08:37] <at0m> don't wait, try to log in
1649[11:09:04] <at0m> you don't need to know if the backup routine worked, you need to know if the actual change worked
1650[11:09:11] <at0m> backup/restore
1651[11:09:26] *** Joins: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip)
1652[11:09:30] <ayekat> actually, is `ip link set {up,down} dev ...` even valid syntax? shouldn't the {up,down} go at the end?
1653[11:09:38] *** Quits: kouett (~kouett@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1654[11:09:41] <tdn> at0m, it did not. I did not just wait. I pinged the new address in the meantime :)
1655[11:09:46] <tdn> at0m, and it does NOT reply
1656[11:09:59] <tdn> at0m, now the command timed out and I can ssh back in on the old address (phew)
1657[11:10:14] <tdn> No output from the command at all.
1658[11:10:32] *** Quits: BlueByte (~walther@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1659[11:10:57] <ayekat> ah yes, `ip link set {up,down} dev ...` actually valid
1660[11:11:11] <tdn> ?
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1662[11:11:39] <ayekat> tdn: sorry, was just talking to myself and making sure that there isn't any syntax error in those `ip` commands there
1663[11:11:57] <tdn> ayekat, then I guess it should have complained, right?
1664[11:12:03] <ayekat> tdn: did it print any error messages in screen?
1665[11:12:05] <tdn> It produced zero output from any of the commands
1666[11:12:17] <ayekat> hum...
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1669[11:13:43] <ayekat> tdn: you could try again, but also print `ip addr show` and `ip route show` between the `ifup` and `sleep` (for debugging)
1670[11:14:15] <ayekat> (also maybe reduce the sleep time to a bit less than 2 minutes, given that we know that it doesn't work)
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1672[11:14:46] <tdn> Like this?
1673[11:14:52] <tdn> systemctl stop network-manager && ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 && ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 && ifup enp0s31f6; ip addr show; ip route show; sleep 2m; ifdown enp0s31f6; cp /etc/network/interfaces.bak /etc/network/interfaces; systemctl start network-manager
1674[11:15:37] <ayekat> tdn: yeah (assuming /etc/network/interfaces contains the desired configuration again, given that you previously overwrote it with the .bak file)
1675[11:15:49] <tdn> ayekat, yes
1676[11:16:39] <tdn> Here we go...
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1681[11:20:16] <tdn> ayekat, replaced-url
1682[11:20:24] <tdn> ayekat, output this time
1683[11:21:02] <tdn> I think this line indicates that it did configure the IP: inet 172.28.130.50/24 brd 172.28.130.255 scope global enp0s31f6
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1685[11:21:09] <tdn> But that it did not work.
1686[11:21:10] <ayekat> tdn: seems like expected - but can't connect to 172.28.130.50 during that sleep?
1687[11:21:21] <ayekat> s/but can't/but you can't/
1688[11:21:21] <tdn> Nope.
1689[11:21:39] <tdn> Maybe it actually works. But there is a problem in the vlan config.
1690[11:21:42] <tdn> Will check up on it.
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1692[11:22:22] *** Joins: Matt12345 (~Matt12345@replaced-ip)
1693[11:22:23] <ayekat> hm... NO-CARRIER... DOWN...
1694[11:22:25] <at0m> tdn: yea can insert a ping from the remote box to another IP in that lan, too
1695[11:23:19] <tdn> systemctl stop network-manager && ip addr flush dev enp0s31f6 && ip link set down dev enp0s31f6 && ifup enp0s31f6; ip addr show; ip route show; ping -c1 172.28.132.138; sleep 2m; ifdown enp0s31f6; cp /etc/network/interfaces.bak /etc/network/interfaces; systemctl start network-manager
1696[11:23:26] <ayekat> although - maybe ifupdown forks the configuring part to the background and returns immediately - I'd try to insert a `sleep 10` or something right after ifup
1697[11:23:42] <tdn> ayekat, good idea.
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1700[11:23:59] <ayekat> tdn: also, I'd remove the sleep 2m there - seems rather pointless given that we know it doesn't work
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1709[11:28:52] <tdn> The ping results in 100 % packet loss.
1710[11:29:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1542
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1712[11:29:40] <ayekat> tdn: and the `ip addr` output now? is it still NO-CARRIER and DOWN?
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1717[11:31:15] <tdn> It is a vlan problem.
1718[11:31:22] <tdn> Talking to a network admin now
1719[11:32:26] *** Joins: dasj19 (~dasj19@replaced-ip)
1720[11:32:40] <ayekat> oh, vlan is involved O_o
1721[11:32:46] *** Joins: tmroland (~tmroland@replaced-ip)
1722[11:33:16] <ayekat> (would actually be interesting to see the output of `ip addr` and `ip route` with NetworkManager running)
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1724[11:33:56] <tdn> ayekat, Ok. So it needed to be on a different vlan in order to actually use that IP address.
1725[11:34:01] *** Quits: tuxi (~jetgirl@replaced-ip) (Quit: Verlassend)
1726[11:34:13] <tdn> So I removed everything after the "ifup" and then ran the command.
1727[11:34:20] <tdn> So now it is permanently on the new network config.
1728[11:34:40] <tdn> Now the net admin change the vlan so that it should be able to actually use it.
1729[11:35:15] <tdn> The vlan has been changed and it should be able to use the new address now. However, it does not reply to ping.
1730[11:35:21] <tdn> I think I just lost the server...
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1732[11:35:29] <ayekat> tdn: alright... I think it's still weird that it gives you NO-CARRIER, though
1733[11:35:31] *** Quits: knidos (~knidos@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 1.9.1)
1734[11:35:40] <tdn> ayekat, what does that mean?
1735[11:35:42] <ayekat> NO-CARRIER is essentially "the cable is not plugged in"
1736[11:36:03] <ayekat> (or "not connected to WiFi access point" in case of wireless interfaces)
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1738[11:36:18] *** Joins: ohwowlol (uid375208@replaced-ip)
1739[11:36:19] <tdn> Strange.
1740[11:36:37] <ayekat> so even if VLAN is involved, I don't think the issue is on that level (but I may be wrong)
1741[11:36:43] <tdn> I just had the net admin bring down link on the switch port and bring it back up in the hope that it would trigger soemthing in the machine to work. But it didnt
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1744[11:37:06] <ayekat> yeah no, I wouldn't have removed the "rollback" part in your command there
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1746[11:37:12] <tdn> ayekat, maybe. Well. I dont think I can do anything now.
1747[11:37:13] <ayekat> that was the failsafe
1748[11:37:28] <tdn> ayekat, yeah, I know. But the failsafe would not work when it was on the other vlan anyway.
1749[11:38:21] <tdn> I will have to travel physically to the box and fix it
1750[11:38:29] <ayekat> hmmm... well, I guess "grab a keyboard and a screen, and move your *** to the server room" it is then :-)
1751[11:38:38] <tdn> yeah
1752[11:39:23] <tdn> kouett, ayekat, at0m: thanks a lot for your help!
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1761[11:47:25] <at0m> tdn: another option would have been an autossh on the remote machine, for a reverse tunnel to a machine you do have access to. and hope route and stuff on the remote works
1762[11:47:44] <at0m> autossh is ssh but keeps retrying upon disconnect
1763[11:48:05] <at0m> but yea undo routine ftw
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1842[12:45:33] <bolovanos> hithere, is there a way to measure aggregate traffic (for specific period of time) over net interface on Debian Stretch? Right now I am using Munin for data aggregation...
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1851[12:51:55] <tdn> at0m, problem was solved now. Someone moved a cable to the wrong switch port, so the vlan changes were made on a different port.
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1853[12:53:02] <zleap> hi
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1858[12:55:03] <ayekat> tdn: good to know ^^
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1868[13:02:41] <HeXiLeD> bolovanos: vnstat?
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1870[13:03:57] <jelly> tdn: "cdpr" is a useful tool to figure out which switch/router your server is connected to. The switch need to have LLDP (vendor neutral) or CDP (cisco) enabled on all ports
1871[13:04:21] <tdn> jelly, thanks for the tip :)
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1875[13:05:53] <n_1-c_k> bolovanos: one way is to monitor /sys/class/net/$iface/statistics/rx_bytes, tx_bytes
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1883[13:11:05] <bolovanos> HeXiLeD, n_1-c_k : luckily server have had almost year since last restart than guessing month traffic would be enough. Thank you.
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1906[13:26:54] <murii> hey, when will i3 be updated to the lastest version?
1907[13:26:59] <Habbie> ,v i3
1908[13:27:00] <judd> Package: i3 on amd64 -- jessie: 4.8-2; stretch: 4.13-1+deb9u1; bullseye: 4.16.1-1; buster: 4.16.1-1; sid: 4.16.1-1
1909[13:27:08] <murii> latest is v4.17
1910[13:27:25] <Habbie> then presumably that will hit sid at some point
1911[13:27:27] <Habbie> but not the others
1912[13:27:44] <Habbie> sorry
1913[13:27:45] <Habbie> sid and bullseye
1914[13:28:11] <murii> how do I check what I'm currently on?
1915[13:28:12] <murii> uname?
1916[13:28:30] <Habbie> cat /etc/debian_version
1917[13:28:36] <murii> thank you!
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1922[13:34:13] <jelly> !debian suite
1923[13:34:13] <dpkg> cat /etc/debian_version (or lsb_release -sc). Or check /etc/apt/sources.list. If unsure about the distribution, $ cat /etc/{*version*,*release*,*issue*} should grab almost all distributions.
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1930[13:42:41] <diogenes_> Hey guys, what is debian-live-10.0.0-amd64-standard? i suppose it's gnome but in the same repo there is already debian-live-10.0.0-amd64-gnome?
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1952[14:01:24] <humpled> well the standard iso is much smaller than any of the desktop versions
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1955[14:02:33] <diogenes_> humpled, that's what i have noticed but what's inside of it? is it text mode or something else?
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1957[14:02:43] <ntz> hello
1958[14:02:49] <ntz> I am little bit confused, with legacy grub I 've been restoring failed drive in server with md raid
1959[14:02:56] <ntz> restored all md mirrors (after doing sfdisk /dev/sda | sfdisk /dev/sdb -) and then I did
1960[14:03:03] <ntz> dd if=/dev/sda bs=446 count=1 > /dev/sdb
1961[14:03:08] <ntz> but shouldn't it be bs=448 ???
1962[14:03:14] <ntz> thanks
1963[14:03:23] <ntz> on this server there are NOT installed grub binaries so I cannot use grub-install /dev/sdb
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1965[14:03:50] <BCMM> you should use fewer line breaks. you nearly triggered the bot there
1966[14:04:23] <ntz> sure ... sorry, I will not use enter key instead of punctuation
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1970[14:06:02] <diogenes_> ntz, you forgot tacit's rules too quickly :)
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1976[14:12:15] <Bushmills> ntz: 446 is ok. at 447 is already the first partition entry.
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1981[14:13:32] <Bushmills> 446 is. so your last byte is 445
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1983[14:14:23] <Bushmills> (end of disk signature)
1984[14:14:32] <mimi89999> Hello
1985[14:15:03] <mimi89999> After updating to Debian Buster I have an issue mounting NFS shares with kerberos
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1987[14:15:34] <mimi89999> root@hostname ~# mount -o sec=krb5p server:/home /home
1988[14:15:34] <mimi89999> mount.nfs: access denied by server while mounting server:/home
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1991[14:16:14] <mimi89999> ‎root@hostname ~# mount -o sec=krb5 server:/home /home
1992[14:16:14] <mimi89999> mount.nfs: an incorrect mount option was specified
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2003[14:26:47] <fraktor> ninja: hey I'm really sorry, but I'm using a trash tier irc client that doesn't have infinite scroll back. could you message me what you said about my partitioning setup?
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2007[14:28:08] <ninja> fraktor: once you're done with partitioning, there is an option which asks you to save partitioning table. that option is in middle, not on the very right bottom. so choose it
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2009[14:28:59] <ninja> I hope you're doing something like hitting right bottom button and ignoring/not watching for that middle buttons.
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2011[14:29:18] <ninja> fraktor: still you haven't installed debian?
2012[14:29:28] <fraktor> I just see "undo changes to partitions" and "finish partitioning and write changes to disk"
2013[14:29:45] <fraktor> I fell asleep, it is now 6am where I am
2014[14:29:45] <ninja> finish partitioning is all you have to click.
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2016[14:30:00] <ninja> Are you from India?
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2018[14:33:12] <ayekat> probably rather america - it's 12:30 UTC
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2021[14:36:09] <BCMM> ninja: "am" means morning. it's around 6 in the afternoon in india
2022[14:37:42] <ninja> BCMM: I didn't see am, sorry, yeah its about to 6PM in India.
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2049[14:55:35] <ntz> Bushmills: thanks
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2051[14:55:55] <ntz> the sdb drive is just new and without anything
2052[14:56:14] <ntz> from what I learned there are 446+2+64 (bootloader image, bootloader signature, partition table for bootloader) .. I am just not sure what from these 3 components is needed ... some articles say that 448 (image+sig) some say that's enough 446 and even less say that 512 is needed
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2054[14:56:35] <ntz> diogenes_: hello buddy ... yeah, I've forgot tacit's rule
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2098[15:23:54] <davis> hello
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2144[15:40:19] <Akuw> anybody here know about msmtp
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2149[15:42:30] <Habbie> Akuw, best to ask your actual question
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2152[15:42:55] <Akuw> echo -e "Subject: Action List OK\r\n $val" | msmtp -a default mymail@gmail.com
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2154[15:43:06] <Akuw> but i got the content of val in Subject
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2156[15:43:12] <Akuw> not in the body
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2160[15:44:28] <Habbie> you need two newlines
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2164[15:45:20] <Akuw> ??
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2166[15:45:29] <jelly> and maybe use printf instead of echo -e because it maybe does not do what you want it to?
2167[15:45:45] <istrive> hello friends, It's time to pick the bright minds here for some help!
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2171[15:45:58] <istrive> First things first!
2172[15:45:59] <brutser> hi, i installed a minimal xorg and xfce on top of deb10, but i got some xsession errors, can someone look at them and say me what packages or config that i am missing? replaced-url
2173[15:46:01] <greycat> Well, unfortunately, you've got us.
2174[15:46:31] <jelly> Akuw: two consecutive \r\n between headers and body (that is, an empty line between)
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2177[15:47:46] <jelly> and you probably don't need \r because a unix MTA usually converts unix line endings to what the protocol dictates (\r\n)
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2179[15:48:17] <istrive> I'm unable to get the desktop after signing in to Plasma (Debian Buster KDE on VM) reporting error with OpenGL 2, and I alredy tried with 2d and 3d acceleration disabled!
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2183[15:49:40] <istrive> if I try the tty2 it is stuck at SysMon login: but doesnt take any input...
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2188[15:52:53] <Akuw> works
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2194[15:54:16] <greycat> Hit enter a few times? Scroll Lock? Ctrl-Q?
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2197[15:54:48] <Akuw> good
2198[15:54:52] <Akuw> working nice
2199[15:55:07] <Akuw> last thing to send to 4 contacts?
2200[15:55:25] <Akuw> echo -e "Subject: Action List OK\r\n $val" | msmtp -a default mymail@gmail.com another@gmail.com and so on ?
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2203[15:55:43] <jelly> if I ever write a MTA the queue control tool will be named ctlqueue
2204[15:55:46] <istrive> crtl-q worked!
2205[15:56:25] <jelly> Akuw: man msmtp ?
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2208[15:57:05] <istrive> <greycat> life saver! thanks a lot
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2222[16:02:47] <Akuw> last question
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2277[16:33:21] <tsglove> Hello. I did a fresh Buster install, and I'm getting this error when I run apt-get update --> replaced-url
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2279[16:33:55] <tsglove> The repository 'https:.....' is not signed.
2280[16:34:08] <tsglove> This is the first time I've seen this, and I'm not sure how to proceed.
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2288[16:37:08] <greycat> why are you using sury.org with buster
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2292[16:38:42] <tsglove> greycat, hello o/ I believe when I installed this machine, I selected a mirror down the list.
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2294[16:38:57] <greycat> !buster sources.list
2295[16:38:57] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has three lines: "deb replaced-url
2296[16:39:23] <tsglove> greycat, thank you! On my way to check my sources.list
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2305[16:43:38] <tsglove> greycat, in the interest of learning more about debian... I ask: I removed all lines from sources.list and left only the lines above (posted by dpkg). Yet now, when I run apt-get update, I still get a hit on packages.sury.org
2306[16:43:49] <tsglove> Where else could that call be specified?
2307[16:43:54] <greycat> look in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/
2308[16:44:23] <tsglove> Ah wow yes! I have a php.list in there, and it contains the packages.sury.org
2309[16:44:24] <tsglove> =)
2310[16:44:25] <tsglove> Thank you
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2318[16:50:39] <han-solo> when i doubt, just `grep` the hell out
2319[16:51:06] <greycat> grep -r somekeyword /etc can be a good starting point, sometimes
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2334[17:00:18] <Dirkos> Enter passphrase for key '/home/senet/.ssh/id_rsa'
2335[17:00:26] <Dirkos> Is there a way to store this in the keychain for debian?
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2337[17:00:35] <greycat> man ssh-agent, man ssh-add
2338[17:00:50] <Dirkos> greycat yeah well that is not really working im afraid
2339[17:01:04] <greycat> because of GNOME? or what? WHY isn't it working?
2340[17:01:05] <Dirkos> atleast, it stores it for the session but its not in the keychain so next login the same happens
2341[17:01:13] <greycat> well yeah, that's intended.
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2343[17:01:39] <Dirkos> Is there a way to store it in the keychain so that is not needed anymore
2344[17:01:45] <Dirkos> Thats the main question
2345[17:01:47] <greycat> What do you mean when you use this word "keychain"?
2346[17:01:59] <greycat> Do you simply want to REMOVE THE PASSPHRASE FROM THE KEY entirely?
2347[17:02:06] <Dirkos> Well on the web i can find stuff like: AddKeysToAgent yes
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2350[17:02:20] <Dirkos> No i dont want to remove it, i want my agent to remember it for next time
2351[17:02:24] <greycat> Why?
2352[17:02:30] <Dirkos> I got a brand new Ubuntu installation here why never prompts me anymore
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2355[17:02:50] <greycat> What's the difference between an agent that remembers for you even when someone steals your PC, and not having the passphrase on the key in the first place?
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2358[17:03:32] <Dirkos> true that
2359[17:03:48] <Bushmills> keychain is supposed to permanently supply openssh passphrases
2360[17:04:12] *** Quits: hybrid (~hybrid@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2361[17:04:18] <Bushmills> still needs or starts ssh-agent
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2363[17:04:36] <greycat> The ssh AGENT is supposed to remember your unlocked key, once you unlock it with your passphrase, but only so long as the agent remains running. And it's not supposed to be swapped out, so it never writes the key into swap, etc.
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2365[17:04:50] <Dirkos> yeah clear
2366[17:04:52] <greycat> I don't know what a "keychain" is. Maybe that's what GNOME or Ubuntu calls their ssh agent.
2367[17:04:57] <Dirkos> i will remove the passphrase then
2368[17:05:03] <book_> How can I add slitaz linux on the debian 10 grub2?
2369[17:05:07] <Bushmills> ,v keychain
2370[17:05:08] <judd> Package: keychain on amd64 -- jessie: 2.7.1-1; stretch: 2.8.2-0.1; bullseye: 2.8.5-1; buster: 2.8.5-1; sid: 2.8.5-1
2371[17:05:12] <Dirkos> thanks greycat
2372[17:05:22] <greycat> ,info keychain
2373[17:05:23] <judd> Package keychain (net, optional) in buster/amd64: key manager for OpenSSH. Version: 2.8.5-1; Size: 38.9k; Installed: 84k; Homepage: replaced-url
2374[17:05:38] <Habbie> gnome-keyring calls itself Keychain in some dialogs i think
2375[17:05:50] <Piraty> Hi there. How to bootstrap a debian system from source? is there a central repo (like ports maybe) that gets me started?
2376[17:05:54] <Dirkos> "but allows you to easily have one long running ssh-agent process per system, rather than the norm of one ssh-agent per login session."\
2377[17:05:55] <Dirkos> in general
2378[17:05:58] <greycat> Long description says "When keychain is run, it checks for a running ssh-agent, ..."
2379[17:05:59] <Habbie> Piraty, why do you want this?
2380[17:06:09] <greycat> So it's not an agent. It's yet another layer on top of the agent. Apparently.
2381[17:06:16] *** Quits: Azlux (~Azlux@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bye Bye)
2382[17:06:16] <Piraty> Habbie: personal education i guess?
2383[17:06:26] *** Quits: uNmowed (~Kaede@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2384[17:06:40] <Piraty> to get to know the packaging process
2385[17:06:55] <greycat> So I guess if you want the Ubuntu behavior, you install this "keychain" package.
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2390[17:08:18] <Piraty> debootstrap kinda acts like a binary bootstrap which requires an already populated package repository. I'm after making my own package repository, building everything from source (given some host tools like compilers etc of course)
2391[17:08:26] <Bushmills> greycat: my mention of package keychain wasn't in response to your question what "a keychain" is, but in response to Dirkos question how to store and supply the passphrase
2392[17:09:02] <Bushmills> I'm sorry if that somehow meddled with conceptual seperation
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2394[17:09:09] <greycat> Maybe it's what ubuntu uses and what they're expecting? I never heard of it before.
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2396[17:09:48] <greycat> The description of the package seems to match the weird concepts that underlie their question.
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2398[17:10:01] <istrive> I upgraded the vm to Buster from Stretch and now my ip a only shows lo: althouh when I list the usb the ntwork adapter is present, what should I do to get my network connection back?
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2400[17:10:45] <Bushmills> istrive: check /etc/network/interfaces
2401[17:11:13] <greycat> istrive: how about "ip link"?
2402[17:11:32] <Bushmills> then look at type of NIC, maybe it needs non-free firmware
2403[17:12:00] <istrive> the interface only shows auto lo / iface lo inet loopbak (/ equals \r)
2404[17:12:04] <greycat> I've never used a USB NIC before, so I don't know the details of how those are handled, but if it's in "ip link" then you should be able to configured it.
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2407[17:12:29] <Habbie> istrive, sidenote: / most likely equals \n
2408[17:12:31] <greycat> wait, they also said "vm" ... why in the hell would a "vm" has a USB NIC?
2409[17:12:54] <Bushmills> well, you missed the "vm", i missed the "usb" :)
2410[17:13:04] <istrive> because I want to give the vm a different WAN connection
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2416[17:13:58] <istrive> dully noted \n ;) !!!
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2425[17:15:16] <Bushmills> lsusb to identify NIC may be good start
2426[17:15:39] <istrive> it worked just fine before upgrading, even during the upgrade process the downloads were successfull!
2427[17:15:48] <istrive> I did and it shows with the driver and all
2428[17:16:09] <Bushmills> does it show with ifconfig -a ?
2429[17:16:10] <istrive> Bus 001 Device 004: ID 13b1:003f Linksys WUSB6300 802.11a/b/g/n/ac Wireless Adapter [Realtek RTL8812AU]
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2433[17:16:45] <istrive> nope only lo
2434[17:17:20] <greycat> But this is still all imaginary? You're telling the VM to pretend it has this USB NIC attached to it...?
2435[17:18:06] <istrive> what do you mean pretend? it's is dedicated solely to the vm, the host has it's own connection (independent)
2436[17:18:11] <alkisg> istrive: how did you install 8812au? This isn't available in debian packaging afaik
2437[17:18:21] * greycat throws hands in the air, walks away
2438[17:18:25] <alkisg> Did you use a github driver? With dkms or not?
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2441[17:19:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1558
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2443[17:19:26] <istrive> nope only loAU
2444[17:19:31] <istrive> sorry
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2446[17:19:55] <istrive> RTL8812AU was a driver available in debian
2447[17:20:17] *** Prints is now known as [prints]
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2450[17:21:32] <Bushmills> firmware-realtek may contain some. rtl8821* comes with kernel
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2452[17:21:58] <Bushmills> but i think latter isn't usb
2453[17:22:03] <alkisg> AFAIK 8812au is only available for ubuntu with dkms, not debian, and even there it's old and not working in current kernels
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2455[17:22:28] <alkisg> compare replaced-url
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2457[17:22:33] <istrive> when I run the usb-devices it shows fine
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2462[17:23:32] <istrive> replaced-url
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2470[17:25:07] <istrive> is there a way to see if the driver was rejected during the boot process?
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2472[17:25:20] <greycat> dmesg, journalctl
2473[17:26:13] <Bushmills> there's an article on debianforum referring to a driver on github which seems to solve it. But it's in German: replaced-url
2474[17:26:22] <alkisg> istrive: what's the output of this? find /lib/modules -name '*8812*'
2475[17:26:45] <alkisg> Maybe you manually installed it in your older kernel and not know about it
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2478[17:27:39] <istrive> this is what i got //lib/modules/4.9.0-8-amd64/updates/dkms/rtl8812au.ko & lib/modules/4.9.0-9-amd64/updates/dkms/rtl8812au.ko
2479[17:27:53] <alkisg> Right, see, you were using dkms to compile it
2480[17:27:58] *** Joins: _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@replaced-ip)
2481[17:28:17] <alkisg> And you were probably using an older version that can't compile against 4.19
2482[17:28:35] <istrive> what should I do then?
2483[17:28:41] *** Joins: chalcedony (~chalcedon@replaced-ip)
2484[17:29:00] <alkisg> What's the output of `dpkg -l | grep 8812`, do you have this in a .deb package, or did you download it from github directly?
2485[17:29:12] *** Quits: hybrid (~hybrid@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2486[17:29:21] <Akuw> can i call a expect file just putting file.expec inside a function?
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2490[17:29:46] <istrive> nothing
2491[17:29:56] <alkisg> And the output of `dkms status` ?
2492[17:30:26] <istrive> rtl8812AU_8821AU_linux, 1.0, 4.9.0-8-amd64, x86_64: installed
2493[17:30:26] <istrive> rtl8812AU_8821AU_linux, 1.0, 4.9.0-9-amd64, x86_64: installed
2494[17:30:46] <alkisg> OK, so, you manually downloaded and installed this. Do you remember from where?
2495[17:30:51] <alkisg> Also, what's your `uname -a` now?
2496[17:31:08] <istrive> if I didn't recall manually installing it, you get the idea! ;) lol
2497[17:31:20] <Bushmills> avocados
2498[17:32:02] <istrive> but you are very good, and now I'm heading to the right direction! download and install the driver again manually! You're the man!
2499[17:32:02] *** Quits: tagomago (~tagomago@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2500[17:32:04] <alkisg> I think you might have used replaced-url
2501[17:32:17] <Bushmills> (some of their unsaturated fatty acids are said to improve memory)
2502[17:32:21] <alkisg> So you'd need to uninstall that, and find/install a newer one from github
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2509[17:32:48] <istrive> how to uninstall these old ones?
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2511[17:33:07] <alkisg> You need to go to the web page where you installed it from, and follow the uninstall instructions :)
2512[17:33:21] <alkisg> This is outside of debian package management, it's manual instructions
2513[17:33:53] <alkisg> Check that page that I linked above for an example
2514[17:34:00] <istrive> so each package is an independent install/uninstall procedure?
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2516[17:34:09] <alkisg> It's not a package at all
2517[17:34:20] <alkisg> It's a series of installation instructions that you followed from github,
2518[17:34:29] <alkisg> so you need to follow the next paragraph there, for uninstallation
2519[17:34:50] <istrive> linux should have some sort of uninstaller tool... ;)
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2521[17:35:00] <alkisg> It does, when you use the installer tool!
2522[17:35:07] <alkisg> If you don't use .deb, then... chaos
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2524[17:35:17] <istrive> the linke you provided is 404 on me1
2525[17:35:37] <alkisg> Maybe you included the , at the end of the page
2526[17:35:46] <alkisg> If so, remove it: replaced-url
2527[17:35:50] <istrive> i tooke the extra comma! I'm in now
2528[17:35:57] <Bushmills> ,info cruft
2529[17:35:58] <judd> Package cruft (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: program that finds any cruft built up on your system. Version: 0.9.38; Size: 32.9k; Installed: 137k
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2540[17:38:00] <istrive> is this cruft safe to use? from a regular user point of view?
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2543[17:38:31] <istrive> I like simplicity but sometimes too easy messes up things and make harder!
2544[17:38:37] <Bushmills> it's not removing stuff unasked - you use it to list those files which don't belong to the installation
2545[17:39:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1550
2546[17:39:05] <istrive> got it!
2547[17:39:25] <istrive> better safer than sorry! I learned this is linux the hard way...
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2556[17:41:56] <Piraty> Habbie: since you were triggered: do you have any info? (build/bootstrap from source)
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2558[17:42:33] <Haxxa> Can anyone link me to htop for debian wheezy on a mips CPU? can't find in the archive.
2559[17:42:40] <Bushmills> there's also cruft-ng, apparently a rewrite. can't say how much different that one is. My guess would be that it'd be faster
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2564[17:44:42] <Habbie> Piraty, no, not really - i'd suggest looking at things like pbuilder and dpkg-buildpackage
2565[17:45:26] <istrive> I'm glad to get the help of experienced guys here, better the spend countless hours in google and mix info... Thak you all for the input! greatly appreciated!
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2567[17:45:34] <Piraty> those seem to be the tools doing the job, but how does everybody else (read: the distro itself) build everyhing from source ?
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2569[17:46:30] <Habbie> Piraty, oh, this is what you want: replaced-url
2570[17:46:35] <Habbie> not to be confused with 'debootstrap'
2571[17:46:52] <Piraty> yeah i know debootstrap, which does the thing just from installing packages
2572[17:47:07] <Piraty> i'm after building the packages, to understand the full chain
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2574[17:47:24] <Habbie> this page is about what debian -wants- the 'start from nothing' procedure to be
2575[17:47:30] <Habbie> but it also tells you a lot about how it's done today
2576[17:47:32] <Piraty> thanks for that links, couldn't find it on my own appearantly
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2578[17:47:45] <Bushmills> will you compile the compiler from source prior to using it to compile components of the system?
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2581[17:48:04] <Piraty> depends on how the system is designed
2582[17:48:40] <Piraty> compiling the compiler using a given host's compiler *should* be straightforward, i least i expect it to be like this in the most known distro in the world
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2584[17:48:42] <Bushmills> then there'll be some chicken-or-egg problem somewhere - you gotta start with something which has already been compiled
2585[17:49:00] <Piraty> of course i won't binary-asm my compiler, but thanks Bushmills
2586[17:49:02] <Bushmills> unless you're entering initial bootstrap with hex keys
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2589[17:49:56] <Piraty> I'm familiar with ports-like trees that make it fairly easy to bootstrap a whole distro
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2591[17:50:02] <Piraty> just curious how debian works
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2594[17:51:15] <greycat> Debian is a binary distribution. There is a base install, which is essentially an extracted tarball, and then packages are installed on top of that. BINARY packages. There is no compilation involved in the installation.
2595[17:51:43] <Piraty> i know greycat, but thank you for pointing it out
2596[17:51:48] <greycat> In order to CREATE a package that is written in a compiled language like C, there is a compilation step, but this is ENTIRELY separate from how packages are installed by the end users.
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2599[17:52:44] <Piraty> and this is what i want to know more of
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2601[17:53:17] <greycat> !nmg
2602[17:53:17] <dpkg> The packaging tutorial (replaced-url
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2610[17:54:33] <Piraty> lol. "new maintainer's guide" from 2010
2611[17:54:47] <alkisg> Not "new guide"; "new debian maintainer"
2612[17:54:47] <greycat> Guide for New Maintainers.
2613[17:54:50] <BCMM> Piraty: in response to your original question: all debian packages have corresponding "source" packages, from which the binary package can be automatically built
2614[17:54:57] <BCMM> so there kind if *is* something like Ports
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2617[17:55:31] <BCMM> (debian doesn't ship binaries that some developer managed to create on their own pc one time; the packages are built automatically from source on debian's servers)
2618[17:55:49] <Piraty> i assumed that
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2621[17:56:24] <Piraty> BCMM: you're talking about replaced-url
2622[17:56:36] <greycat> Also, the NMG actually has a datestamp of 2019-03-04 on the front page, below all those things that say "copyright 2010" and "copyright 1997" and so on, which were older contributions.
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2625[17:57:02] <Piraty> is that just the distfile mirror or is that the "ports" repo i could clone (wouldbe humoungous then)?
2626[17:57:12] <BCMM> Piraty: don't know about the exact url scheme; i just use `apt-get source` to get 'em
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2628[17:57:49] <greycat> Piraty: each package is entirely SEPARATE. Each Debian developer (Maintainer) works in isolation.
2629[17:58:00] <greycat> There isn't a single tree of all the source. This isn't OpenBSD.
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2632[17:58:17] <greycat> Each package is built individually, in a clean build environment.
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2634[17:58:25] <Piraty> greycat: so how do builds get triggered by the build servers then? this wouldn't be manually, would it
2635[17:58:37] <greycat> Ask the devs.
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2639[17:59:25] <BCMM> Piraty: what does ports contain? is it like gentoo's portage, which just has metadata and patches, with the upstream source ("distfiles") acquired separately?
2640[17:59:25] <Piraty> are there offiial buildservers producing the packages and serving them the mirrors for duplication?
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2642[18:00:21] <Habbie> Piraty, replaced-url
2643[18:00:37] <Piraty> BCMM: yes. ports like things usually contain metadata + patches + distfile url + version + checksum. upon bootstrap, distfiles are fetched and pile up on the build server (could be put to a mirror for reproducability ofc)
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2646[18:01:25] <BCMM> Piraty: debian distributes distfiles as well, but it *does* keep them kind of separated. there's a .orig.tar and a .debian.tar for each source package.
2647[18:01:32] <Piraty> so when a change is made to a build recipe, the build server checks for different version/patchlevel and decides to build if it's not in the repo. then serves the new package to repomirror
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2649[18:01:54] <Habbie> Piraty, in debian, like in netbsd, a 'port' is a target architecture, not a Makefile+extra stuff describing a package
2650[18:02:07] <Piraty> is there no central repo that has the debian/ subfolders? (i read they contain metadata+patches+build-commands)
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2652[18:02:38] <Habbie> Piraty, there is not
2653[18:03:02] <Piraty> strange, but ok. please bear with me ;)
2654[18:03:13] <Piraty> so how does a package hit the repo/mirrors?
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2656[18:03:26] <Piraty> an official buildserver creates it?
2657[18:03:48] <BCMM> Piraty: what do you mean by a "central repo" exactly?
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2659[18:04:12] <Piraty> git clone all of the debian/rules that currently represent buster for example
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2661[18:04:19] <Piraty> at the state of now()
2662[18:04:37] <BCMM> Piraty: i don't think they're all in a single git repo, no
2663[18:04:39] <jelly> Piraty: each debian "source package" is composed of both upstream source and all the changes needed to build binary debs; these come as two tarballs. Those can be managed in git, but that is NOT mandatory.
2664[18:04:49] <BCMM> Piraty: but they're all on debian mirrors in the .debian.tar files
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2667[18:05:11] <BCMM> that's just a debian/ directory tarred up
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2669[18:05:22] <Piraty> so what is the declarative norm of what buster is composed of (whole set of packages available)?
2670[18:05:37] <Piraty> isn't that tracked
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2674[18:06:57] <joepublic> Sounds like you're talking about something like a release file
2675[18:07:21] <BCMM> Piraty: ... are you just asking where the master copy that debian mirrors clone from is?
2676[18:07:22] <Piraty> that would be the result of a change to the set of software probably
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2678[18:08:00] <jelly> Piraty: the workflow is a little bit more involved, and is different for package versions in current release, vs. package versions that go into the development branch ("unstable" or "sid")
2679[18:08:54] <Piraty> I'm asking: how to acquiere the (meta)data that defines which packages (version+patches) lead to current states of buster et al., which i assume there is somewhere
2680[18:09:55] <joepublic> "apt update" is the usual way of doing this.
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2682[18:10:02] <Piraty> are packagers just uploading extracted distfiles (of oss ) along their debian/ metadata and that's it then? so the sources (replaced-url
2683[18:10:10] <Akuw> i need to run a expect file in background
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2685[18:10:42] <jelly> Piraty: a package maintainer uploads a new version into a queue. the upload consists of source (+ binaries for a single architecture). Which queue it goes into, depends on whether it's a bugfix for stable (stable-proposed-updates), or a new upstream (unstable) or a completely new source (that queue needs approval from ftp master team)
2686[18:10:52] <BCMM> Piraty: pretty much that (although, as jelly says, there's some processes that packages go through between "upload" and getting in to Stable)
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2689[18:11:53] <Piraty> so that's why bootstrapping is hard
2690[18:12:01] <BCMM> Piraty: ?
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2693[18:13:14] <jelly> Piraty: that package then goes to be built for all the (other) binary architectures. If all the builds succeed, the source and resulting binaries for all the arches get into the main archive (over, I believe, the "incoming" queue)
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2696[18:13:59] <jelly> fixes for security issues in stable have a different route
2697[18:14:12] <Piraty> in order to build buster on some other distro (maybe even buster itself), i would have to fetch sources from replaced-url
2698[18:15:54] <jelly> Piraty: if you're only worried about literal building from source to binary debs, then yes you need a linux installation capable of running a buildd for your desired arch
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2700[18:16:14] <jelly> and then you feed it source packages
2701[18:17:00] <Piraty> can they be acquired automatically? let's say i give it: build -pkg=linux,bash,grub,...
2702[18:17:24] <Piraty> and it resolves dependencies and build everything from bottom to top?
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2715[18:19:14] <jelly> Piraty: that's discussed, among other things, in the page BCMM linked, replaced-url
2716[18:19:25] <Piraty> okay, i'll dive into it.
2717[18:19:28] <Piraty> thanks so far
2718[18:19:30] <BCMM> i think that was Habbie
2719[18:19:34] <joepublic> if you want to build pkgs like that you might look at priority; those would be 'required'
2720[18:19:35] <Habbie> i also think that was me
2721[18:19:38] <Habbie> but it's not important
2722[18:19:39] <Piraty> i also do
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2724[18:19:42] <Piraty> Habbie: +1
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2727[18:19:52] <Habbie> BCMM, re 'debian does not ship packages built on developer laptops', that was different some years ago, right?
2728[18:19:54] <jelly> Habbie* linked
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2730[18:20:00] <BCMM> Habbie: i don't know
2731[18:20:03] <Piraty> jelly: BCMM: greycat +1 as well :)
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2733[18:20:21] <Habbie> BCMM, ok, doesn't matter, devs did confirm it to me a long time ago
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2735[18:20:29] <Habbie> BCMM, i ran ubuntu for a while because of that
2736[18:20:31] <Piraty> i hope that's not the case anymore (shipping packages built on non-official hardware)
2737[18:20:34] <BCMM> Habbie: confirm what?
2738[18:20:37] <Habbie> Piraty, hasn't been the case for years
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2740[18:20:59] <Habbie> BCMM, that a long time ago, package uploads from developers were source + binary for one arch, and buildds would only build the rest of the arches
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2742[18:21:23] <jelly> Habbie: but the upload was still required to contain binary .debs for some raisin IIRC? if they're discarded right after
2743[18:21:35] <Habbie> jelly, yes, to prove that you actually uploaded something you tested
2744[18:21:43] <Habbie> jelly, is how i remember it
2745[18:22:02] <jelly> I guess that makes some sense
2746[18:22:11] <jelly> not too much of it
2747[18:22:16] <Habbie> :)
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2754[18:23:20] <jelly> now I have to become a DM just to try uploading source + empty debs
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2757[18:23:31] <Habbie> haha
2758[18:23:38] <Habbie> i don't even know if the policy is still like that
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2760[18:24:59] <BCMM> honestly, i have no idea what the policy is. i was just pointing out that debian packages are required to exist in source form
2761[18:25:07] <Habbie> ack
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2787[18:32:13] <fraktor> damn slow internet. it's taken an hour to download half of the DVD installer image
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2789[18:32:50] <jelly> fraktor: use the netinst image and only download what you actually need?
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2793[18:33:19] <fraktor> I tried that, but the grub installation isn't working from the netinst image.
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2795[18:33:35] <jelly> it's the same code in both.
2796[18:33:40] <BCMM> not sure why you expect it to work differently on the dvd...
2797[18:33:57] <fraktor> hmm. well shoot
2798[18:33:57] <BCMM> it's the same installer, just fetching packages from a disk vs. from http
2799[18:33:57] <jelly> no reason why dvd of same release and version would work any different
2800[18:34:26] <BCMM> what went wrong with grub?
2801[18:34:44] <jelly> fraktor: if you already have debian installed, everything but grub, you can boot a(ny) live linux and finish that bit manually
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2804[18:36:26] <fraktor> that's true. idk why I didn't think of that before
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2806[18:36:58] <fraktor> bcmm: it is unbootable. when I get to the install grub step, it seems to work, but then my BIOS can't find it
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2811[18:39:00] <BCMM> are you trying to install in UEFI or legacy BIOS mode?
2812[18:39:05] <jelly> fraktor: is there more than one disk device in the machine? Is the system booting in UEFI or legacy mode?
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2815[18:39:17] * jelly slow
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2817[18:39:48] <BCMM> (if you haven't decided if you want uefi or legacy boot, it's eminently probable that you're sort of trying to do both at once)
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2820[18:40:32] <BCMM> also, do you have any other operating systems on the machine? are you trying to dual-boot?
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2827[18:43:05] <fraktor> single os, UEFI, single disk
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2830[18:43:26] <istrive> one system is reporting error: failure reading sector 0x802 from 'hd0' Entering rescue mode... grub rescu>
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2832[18:43:42] <Bushmills> just for a laugh i checked for availability of lilo, and to my surprise it still exists in Debian
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2834[18:44:02] <Bushmills> ,info lilo
2835[18:44:03] <judd> Package lilo (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: LInux LOader - the classic OS boot loader. Version: 1:24.2-4; Size: 283.3k; Installed: 693k; Homepage: replaced-url
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2840[18:45:46] <istrive> this was Debian Stretch, and I have the duplicity backup (encrypted)... Should I buy a new drive, reinstall the Strecth as a clean install and then restore the backup to it?
2841[18:46:03] <istrive> or there are a way arond it?
2842[18:46:15] <istrive> the are ways,
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2844[18:47:20] <Bushmills> istrive: have you checked with smartctl about the full extent of the problem, or whether it's an isolated block which can't be read?
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2847[18:48:17] <Bushmills> reasonable modern drives remap faulty sectors to a pool of spare ones, this usually before a sector is completely unusable
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2862[18:52:57] <istrive> and the disk was not even 25% used, so you think I could save the data from it?
2863[18:53:13] <Bushmills> (I've btw scheduled a monthly full test on relevant drives, the results are then kept with drive lifetime in drive flash, for quick consulting)
2864[18:53:32] <istrive> probable the laptop restarted without proper shutdown, that's what triggered the issue!
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2867[18:54:25] <istrive> probably, getting tired...
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2869[18:54:31] <fraktor> oh sorry, bcmm: single os, single disk, uefi
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2875[18:56:21] <Bushmills> not too likely that a restart causes this. result of such an event is likely to just cause "soft" errors which are commonly ironed out by file system check during boot
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2879[18:57:25] <jhutchins_wk> Bushmills: lilo is very useful on non i386 architectures. I prefer it on my systems, but I got tired of fighting grub.
2880[18:57:41] <Bushmills> such errors occur often when the bearings start to wear out, resulting in head positioning getting inaccurate. but then, often more than just a single sector are affected
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2884[18:59:25] <Bushmills> jhutchins_wk: actually, not "still exists" as the webpage says "was restarted in June 2010"
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2887[19:00:02] <Bushmills> possibly one of the oldest packages in Debian
2888[19:01:53] <jhutchins_wk> Bushmills: Some of the Gnu stuff predates linux.
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2890[19:02:27] <Bushmills> true
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2901[19:06:19] <alkisg> fraktor: boot from a live cd, and upload the output of parted -l or fdisk -l etc
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2904[19:06:49] <istrive> ok, trying that now
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2923[19:11:29] <fraktor> alkisg: will do one the download finishes
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2927[19:13:19] <Zarou> Hello
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2930[19:14:04] <spider_> Hi, Zarau
2931[19:14:18] *** Parts: wichis (be7322fd@replaced-ip) ()
2932[19:14:22] <Zarou> :D
2933[19:14:59] <istrive> where do I go to download the liveCD from Debian Stretch, it's only showing Buster now!
2934[19:15:38] <greycat> !archive
2935[19:15:38] <dpkg> rumour has it, archive is a collection of files. 'tar', 'ar', 'cpio' are all archiving tools. This is *not* the same as compression, which is a separate operation. Debian Archives is the repository for old Debian releases, see replaced-url
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2940[19:19:04] <istrive> that was supper! Thanks a lot.
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2972[19:29:18] <BCMM> fraktor: sorry, i was afk. did you definitely boot the *installer* in UEFI mode? did you see if the installer tried to install grub-efi or grub-pc?
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2980[19:33:39] <fraktor> I don't know. let me run the net installer again
2981[19:34:24] <fraktor> actually I do remember, I booted it in uefi mode
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2997[19:39:52] <rocketmagnet> hi everyone, i now had several different card readers, but with none of them linux worked for all cards, only 1 or 2 card types at max - how can i find a card-creader /sd/mini-sd/mico-sd/etc. that is compatible with linux 100% ??
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3008[19:43:36] <krobzaur> Anyone know how to take a directory of firmware files and package it up into a simple .udeb file? Trying to modify an Ubuntu iso to include wireless drivers I need during the install process. Unpacked the original .udeb and added my .ucode files, now I just cant figure out how to package it back up
3009[19:43:46] *** Parts: Harlekino (~vjetar@replaced-ip) ("partIja i Tito!")
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3011[19:44:14] <TheDcoder> I am having a trivial issue, "apt-get install libgtk-3-dev" is not able to find the package :-/
3012[19:44:26] <greycat> ,v libgtk-3-dev
3013[19:44:28] <judd> Package: libgtk-3-dev on amd64 -- jessie: 3.14.5-1+deb8u1; stretch: 3.22.11-1; buster: 3.24.5-1; bullseye: 3.24.10-1; sid: 3.24.10-1
3014[19:44:38] <TheDcoder> I am new to debian, am I supposed to enable a repository to get the package?
3015[19:44:44] <TheDcoder> I am on Buster
3016[19:44:50] <Bushmills> try apt update
3017[19:44:55] <Bushmills> then try install again
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3019[19:45:07] <greycat> It's in the standard repositories. The question is, what did you already *do* to your sources.list that is making it not see the standard repositories?
3020[19:45:42] <TheDcoder> I did not make any modifications to the standard install
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3022[19:46:19] <greycat> If networking was unavailable during the install, there's no telling what you end up with in sources.list.
3023[19:46:26] <greycat> !buster sources.list
3024[19:46:26] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has three lines: "deb replaced-url
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3026[19:46:55] <TheDcoder> actually you guys are right, I did enable the other standard repositories through synaptic
3027[19:47:01] <TheDcoder> let me check sources.list
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3031[19:47:58] <TheDcoder> the sources.list file looks good, I have the standard repositories enabled
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3034[19:48:05] <TheDcoder> but still cannot find the package :(
3035[19:48:19] <greycat> did you run "apt update"?
3036[19:48:27] <TheDcoder> I did
3037[19:48:42] <Bushmills> any strange messages resulting from that?
3038[19:49:00] <TheDcoder> 36 packages can be updates
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3040[19:49:13] <TheDcoder> not much more interesting than that
3041[19:49:21] <Bushmills> that's not one i'd call "strange"
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3044[19:49:39] <Bushmills> ehm .... buster? that many updates?
3045[19:49:45] <TheDcoder> yes... so no "strange" messages
3046[19:49:51] <Bushmills> that's a tad ... unusual
3047[19:50:03] <TheDcoder> Bushmills: I installed offline from the DVD and haven't really updated anything
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3051[19:50:42] <greycat> so you *were* offline during the install... hence the broken sources.list
3052[19:50:48] <Bushmills> apt show libgtk-3-dev
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3054[19:51:20] <TheDcoder> greycat: I did re-enable those repositories through synaptic later, and I just manually checked sources.list as well
3055[19:51:37] *** Joins: casaca (~nut@replaced-ip)
3056[19:51:41] <greycat> put your sources.list on replaced-url
3057[19:52:12] <TheDcoder> State: not a real package (virtual)
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3064[19:54:18] <TheDcoder> greycat: replaced-url
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3066[19:54:57] <greycat> You only have TWO of the three lines. You're missing the main one.
3067[19:55:06] <greycat> you've got security and buster-update, but not buster
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3069[19:55:08] <Bushmills> bleh
3070[19:55:14] <TheDcoder> ...oops
3071[19:55:22] <BCMM> krobzaur: ubuntu isn't the same thing as debian. also, drivers aren't the same thing as firmware.
3072[19:55:53] <TheDcoder> greycat: any chance you can fork the paste and add the missing line? hard to find it in IRC...
3073[19:56:01] <Bushmills> contrib without non-free is pretty pointless.
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3076[19:56:11] <greycat> deb replaced-url
3077[19:56:16] <TheDcoder> thanks
3078[19:56:20] <Bushmills> (those are packages with depend on some non-free packages)
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3080[19:56:37] <greycat> Bushmills: not always. some of them are installers for non-free stuff.
3081[19:57:02] <Bushmills> ah, as downloaded from internet, rather than non-free packages
3082[19:57:07] <Bushmills> yes, you're right
3083[19:57:11] <greycat> e.g. ttf-mscorefonts-installer
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3086[19:57:20] <BCMM> why is gcc-doc in contrib, by the way?
3087[19:57:30] <greycat> !gfdl
3088[19:57:30] <dpkg> [gfdl] The GNU "Free" Documentation License, considered <non-free> by Debian in some cases. Read the discussion at replaced-url
3089[19:57:44] <BCMM> somebody was asking about it the other week, and i couldn't work out why it wouldn't be in main (if it's dsfg) or non-free (if it isn't)
3090[19:58:01] <BCMM> greycat: so why is it contrib as opposed to non-free?
3091[19:58:04] *** Parts: ZedHeadTed| (IReticentI@replaced-ip) ()
3092[19:58:25] <karlpinc> BCMM: Probably the same reason the GFDL stuff is in non-free, but maybe it contains executable code that tweaks the docs to what's installed so needs to be in contrib?
3093[19:58:28] *** Quits: casaca (~nut@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3094[19:58:37] <karlpinc> (Random guess.)
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3097[19:59:04] <TheDcoder> thanks greycat, it is working now
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3101[19:59:24] <BCMM> (also, iirc it doesn't have invariant sections, so i don't see how it isn't dfsg-compliant anyway, but that's not the point)
3102[19:59:32] <TheDcoder> strange to see how not being connected to the internet at the time of installation effects the default repositories
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3112[20:00:08] <no_gravity> Hello! When I press "CTRL+a f" in screen, it display "+flow". What is that?
3113[20:00:30] *** Joins: aviany (~aviany@replaced-ip)
3114[20:00:39] *** Joins: casaca (~nut@replaced-ip)
3115[20:00:40] <greycat> if only there were some sort of handbook, or manual
3116[20:01:20] <Bushmills> seems just a meta package in contrib
3117[20:01:30] *** Joins: belanthor (~belan@replaced-ip)
3118[20:01:34] <Bushmills> depending on packages in non-free
3119[20:02:11] <annadane> screen man page: turns flow-control on, off, or "automatic switching mode"
3120[20:02:11] <Bushmills> as it says "This documentation is available from non-free part of Debian archive."
3121[20:02:16] <BCMM> no_gravity: replaced-url
3122[20:02:27] <krobzaur> BCMM: Right, but they pacakge things up similarly
3123[20:03:13] <no_gravity> BCMM: Read that, but no clue what it means :)
3124[20:03:37] <greycat> no_gravity: then ask #screen
3125[20:04:10] <BCMM> no_gravity: did you understand the words "flow control"?
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3127[20:04:39] <no_gravity> BCMM: Nope. It seems to handle "XON and XOFF chars". But I have no idea what those are.
3128[20:04:50] *** Joins: publio (~publio@replaced-ip)
3129[20:04:51] <greycat> Ctrl-Q and Ctrl-S
3130[20:04:54] <BCMM> no_gravity: you know when you press ctrl-s by accident and your terminal stops working?
3131[20:05:12] <BCMM> that's XOFF
3132[20:05:14] *** Joins: datastream (~datastrea@replaced-ip)
3133[20:05:35] <no_gravity> BCMM: CTRL+s has no effect here.
3134[20:05:43] <greycat> Wow, dpkg doesn't seem to know ANYTHING about terminals.
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3136[20:06:36] *** Parts: TheDcoder (~TheDcoder@replaced-ip) ("<Insert Generic Part Message>")
3137[20:06:45] <BCMM> no_gravity: replaced-url
3138[20:07:08] *** Quits: istrive (~IceChat9@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3139[20:07:20] <no_gravity> BCMM: Well, I give up on it. Thanks anyhow!
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3143[20:07:48] <greycat> how the hell does someone use linux for as many years as no_gravity has, and never encounter ctrl-s / ctrl-q
3144[20:07:51] <BCMM> no_gravity: basically there is an ascii character that allows the terminal to say "help, you're sending stuff too fast, stop for a bit while i process stuff"
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3147[20:08:10] <BCMM> no_gravity: and in most terminal emulators, you can use a keyboard shortcut to send that character
3148[20:08:24] <BCMM> but *usually* you don't want to do that, so you get get screen to stop you from doing that if you want
3149[20:08:26] <no_gravity> greycat: Neither CTRL+s nor CTRL+q have an effect in any of my terminals.
3150[20:08:43] <BCMM> ^so you can get
3151[20:09:00] <BCMM> by the way, if you're just learning screen now, don't. use tmux.
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3153[20:09:03] <greycat> I opened an xterm right now, and ctrl-s pauses a command with infinite output. Out of the box.
3154[20:09:04] <Somebody293> Hello
3155[20:09:11] <BCMM> screen is basically just for people who already know screen at this point
3156[20:09:16] <greycat> I used this to test it: while sleep 0.01s; do echo "$RANDOM"; done
3157[20:09:17] <Somebody293> Bye
3158[20:09:18] <no_gravity> BCMM: I have used screen for years and years.
3159[20:09:21] <Somebody293> Hello
3160[20:09:23] <Somebody293> Bye
3161[20:09:26] <Somebody293> Hello
3162[20:09:28] <Somebody293> Bye
3163[20:09:30] <Somebody293> Hello
3164[20:09:31] *** Somebody293 was kicked by debhelper (flood)
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3166[20:09:31] <Bushmills> !xon
3167[20:09:34] <BCMM> no_gravity: heh, then carry on using screen i guess :)
3168[20:09:39] *** Joins: dietary_ (~dietary@replaced-ip)
3169[20:09:40] <greycat> Bushmills: I know, right?!?
3170[20:09:40] <Bushmills> !xoff
3171[20:09:45] <Somebody293> Hello
3172[20:09:47] <greycat> Bushmills: I did all of this in /msg
3173[20:09:48] <Somebody293> Bye
3174[20:09:51] <Somebody293> Hello
3175[20:09:53] <Somebody293> Bye
3176[20:10:02] <Somebody293> Hello
3177[20:10:04] <Somebody293> Bye
3178[20:10:07] <Somebody293> Hello
3179[20:10:08] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o greycat
3180[20:10:09] <BCMM> Somebody293: are you testing if we can read what you're typing?
3181[20:10:13] <no_gravity> greycat: True, CTRL+s seems to pause that loop
3182[20:10:13] <BCMM> or just tryign to get kicked?
3183[20:10:14] *** greycat sets mode: +q *!*@5.2.67.77
3184[20:10:23] *** greycat sets mode: -o greycat
3185[20:10:36] *** Quits: Robr3rd (uid150509@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
3186[20:10:36] <greycat> no_gravity: You have just witnessed XON/XOFF flow control.
3187[20:11:00] *** Joins: real_walnut_burl (~oak@replaced-ip)
3188[20:11:00] <greycat> ctrl-q is the other one (XON)
3189[20:11:08] <no_gravity> greycat: Interesting. Does the program actually get paused or just the display of its output?
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3193[20:11:23] <no_gravity> greycat: Any key de-pauses the loop here.
3194[20:11:49] <greycat> the program will continue running and writing until it fills up whatever buffer the kernel is providing it, at which point it will receive a signal to pause it
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3197[20:12:34] <greycat> no_gravity: well, that's abnormal. Maybe that's your screen setting.
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3204[20:13:29] <no_gravity> greycat: I see. I actually wrote an article about threads being paused because of full buffers and some side effects that became quite popular some time ago.
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3216[20:15:36] <no_gravity> Ok, so all is clear now.
3217[20:15:38] <no_gravity> Thanks a lot!
3218[20:15:39] <no_gravity> Cu!
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3254[20:31:50] <OS-50590> hello
3255[20:32:02] <petn-randall> Hi OS-50590
3256[20:32:06] *** Quits: hybrid (~hybrid@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3257[20:32:25] <OS-50590> gcc -o 39166 39166.c
3258[20:32:25] <OS-50590> gcc: error trying to exec 'cc1': execvp: No such file or directory
3259[20:32:34] *** Joins: hybrid (~hybrid@replaced-ip)
3260[20:32:35] <OS-50590> help me on above error
3261[20:32:41] <greycat> OS-50590: apt-get install build-essential
3262[20:32:53] <petn-randall> OS-50590: Are you running Kali or Parrot?
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3268[20:34:30] <OS-50590> i was tring on target machine
3269[20:35:07] <petn-randall> OS-50590: And what is the target machine running?
3270[20:35:53] <OS-50590> linux 3.13.0
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3272[20:36:17] <greycat> Should I kick-ban him? Sounds like he's attempting to do malicious stuff to a system that is not his.
3273[20:36:26] *** Joins: hybrid (~hybrid@replaced-ip)
3274[20:37:03] <greycat> The second google result for 39166.c is replaced-url
3275[20:37:15] <greycat> That's enough evidence for me.
3276[20:37:20] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o greycat
3277[20:37:30] *** greycat sets mode: +b *!*@106.51.17.130
3278[20:37:34] *** OS-50590 was kicked by greycat (OS-50590)
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3285[20:38:18] <brutser> anyone replied to my question? i got d/c
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3290[20:39:27] <im_saeed1> hi
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3295[20:41:43] <pasiz> hi
3296[20:41:55] <petn-randall> greycat: Most nicks with OS-* are Kali users from their training seminars, they don't necessarily do anything illegal, though they just might be clueless showing up in the wrong channel.
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3304[20:44:39] <brutser> can i install the latest mesa drivers for amd from the backports? how would i do that?
3305[20:44:44] <im_saeed1> how are you
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3318[20:49:00] <johnfg> hi folks
3319[20:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1563
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3322[20:49:21] <petn-randall> hi johnfg
3323[20:49:31] <johnfg> Anyone know where apache2-ssl-certificate is? I.e., what pkg it's a part of?
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3325[20:49:50] <petn-randall> johnfg: What is that supposed to be?
3326[20:50:15] <johnfg> I have a cert for my hostname here, churchdebian.spirit.org, but need to generate one for replaced-url
3327[20:50:42] <brutser> well if anyone can help me, i am trying to avoid using firmware-amd-graphics proprietary binary blobs and trying to find an alternative opensource, can i install Mesa in debian 10 and how can i make my amd work fine (i don't need gaming quality)
3328[20:51:01] <pasiz> johnfg: letsencrypt maybe?
3329[20:51:12] <johnfg> Generating an SSL certificate for Apache2 may be accomplished using the apache2-ssl-certificate script. This will ask you questions interactively then generate the certificate file appropriately.
3330[20:51:26] <pasiz> johnfg: then install apache2 package
3331[20:51:28] <petn-randall> johnfg: I don't think it's packaged for Debian.
3332[20:51:38] <pasiz> and get the script
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3334[20:51:49] <petn-randall> johnfg: TBH, I'd just run those 3 commands yourself, instead of relying on a script.
3335[20:51:53] <joepublic> brutser, without proprietary packages, 99% of Radeons (100% of modern Radeons) are not usable except as framebuffer or vesa (i.e., no 3d acceleration, etc)
3336[20:52:00] <johnfg> it's actually referred to on a debian-administration page.
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3338[20:52:28] <pasiz> johnfg: do you need cert for public use
3339[20:52:53] <johnfg> For the backend of my typo3 cms site.
3340[20:53:03] <joepublic> the fastest full-featured video card for debian main (no proprietary packages) is, I believe, the Nvidia GTX 780 ti using nouveau driver
3341[20:53:07] <pasiz> johnfg: why not letsencrypt?
3342[20:53:26] <johnfg> pasiz: I'll check that out, thanks!
3343[20:53:28] <pasiz> automatic refreshing and no cost.
3344[20:53:48] <pasiz> integrates nicely with apache2
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3347[20:55:31] <brutser> joepublic: so if someone told me that he know someone who is gaming with a similar radeon and Mesa + opensource drivers, he is just not telling truth?
3348[20:55:43] <brutser> based on that i was started to search for a solution
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3353[20:56:36] <joepublic> if he is saying that he does not have amd proprietary firmware and is doing that, he is mistaken. They won't work without it and amd is committed to opensource drivers--but not opensource firmware.
3354[20:56:39] <omarek> Hi I need help with a damaged GPT table after my power supply died in a suspended computer.
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3357[20:56:55] <omarek> gdisk session transcript here: replaced-url
3358[20:57:14] <omarek> I've also created a backup with dd and gdisk's 'b' before I made any changes.
3359[20:57:17] *** Joins: hybrid (~hybrid@replaced-ip)
3360[20:57:27] <joepublic> to "game" without proprietary firmware, you need a GTX 660, 680, 760, or 780
3361[20:57:32] *** Quits: wwilliam (~afernande@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3362[20:57:37] <omarek> Long story short is doing 'w' in gdisk brought me down from 5 problems to 3 problems.
3363[20:57:44] <omarek> Habbie: Are you here ?
3364[20:58:28] *** Quits: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3365[20:58:41] <pasiz> omarek: have you tried testdisk
3366[20:58:48] *** Quits: vmg3 (~vmg3@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
3367[20:59:04] <brutser> joepublic: i have this laptop with coreboot'ed and also flashed the keyboard input chip, the coreboot is build with Discrete GPU support and AMD GPU AtomBIOS blobs - now i am installing any linux distro and it's asking for firmware-amd-graphics, which is totally against what i am trying to achieve
3368[20:59:13] <brutser> by the way, i don't need gaming < it's a virtualization system
3369[20:59:20] <brutser> but i need graphical interfaces
3370[20:59:21] <omarek> pasiz: not yet. Should I abandon the gdisk session without further changes?
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3373[20:59:47] <pasiz> omarek: never work on only copy. Take copy with dd and work on that
3374[20:59:49] <joepublic> brutser, without proprietary firmware, a radeon is only a vesa or framebuffer device.
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3378[21:00:53] <brutser> joepublic: replaced-url
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3380[21:01:22] <pasiz> but with gdisk i think you are creating other problems. Testdisk could rescue your partition tables
3381[21:01:40] <pasiz> or may rescue, if you havent written new ones to disk
3382[21:01:40] <joepublic> brutser, the open source drivers do not work without the proprietary firmware.
3383[21:01:59] <omarek> pasiz: How do I work on "other copy" ? Restore the dd image to another device?
3384[21:01:59] <brutser> joepublic: so firmware-amd-graphics < is always needed?
3385[21:02:08] <brutser> or firmware-linux-nonfree
3386[21:02:09] <pasiz> omarek: exactly
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3388[21:02:17] <pasiz> did you dd whole disk
3389[21:02:36] <omarek> pasiz: Yes! turned out to only be 520GiB.
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3391[21:02:46] <joepublic> the nonfree firmware is a hard dependency of the opensource radeon and amdgpu drivers.
3392[21:03:36] <omarek> pasiz: gzipped on the fly.
3393[21:03:54] <omarek> The disk is 4TiG.
3394[21:04:08] <joepublic> if you are feeling really, really frustrated or exasperated, it means you are on the cusp of grasping the situation.
3395[21:04:25] <brutser> joepublic: :)
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3397[21:05:05] <johnfg> pasiz: In order to install certbot, I need to enable backports. Would you recommend a backports.list in sources.list.d?
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3400[21:05:16] <brutser> joepublic: without the firmware and just using vesa drivers or something similar, what would be my user experience?
3401[21:05:34] <brutser> as i mentioned before, it's a qemu-kvm virtualization box
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3404[21:06:31] <joepublic> brutser, no 3d acceleration and perhaps fewer resolution choices. I have a thinkpad with a radeon/vesa driver and it only works 1027x768 meaning the icons look stretched
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3410[21:09:45] <joepublic> *1024x
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3412[21:10:16] <omarek> What program do you recommend for testing a hard drive after a power supply failure?
3413[21:10:30] <petn-randall> omarek: Testing in what sense?
3414[21:10:44] <omarek> petn-randall: for damage? Data loss?
3415[21:11:06] <petn-randall> Data loss should be taken care automatically by fsck on boot, since the fs is marked as dirty.
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3417[21:11:27] <omarek> I just tried fsck /dev/sdb1 and fsck /dev/sdb2 but it might not be foolproof.
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3419[21:11:31] <brutser> joepublic: i did not install the firmware on my lenovo laptop and installed the xorg-xserver-video-radeon (and also tested with -ati) < after few minutes the display goes 'coloury' like gray turns pink and whatever
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3422[21:12:13] <omarek> I'm working from a live debian booted from USB. My system hard drive got hit.
3423[21:12:22] <petn-randall> omarek: You can use `smartctl -t long /dev/sdb` from the smartmontools package to run a long selftest, and then check attributes with `smartctl -A /dev/sdb`.
3424[21:12:38] <petn-randall> omarek: Does that mean it doesn't boot cleanly anymore?
3425[21:12:58] <omarek> petn-randall: thank you, so far I've only done a quick stat display with smartctl
3426[21:13:38] <omarek> petn-randall: Yes, it prints a message along the lines "gave up restoring from suspend". My mobo died too.
3427[21:13:45] <omarek> motherboard.
3428[21:14:13] <omarek> I have the full message on paper and could type it in if useful.
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3430[21:14:59] <pasiz> omarek: i think that's not relevant
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3432[21:15:16] <petn-randall> omarek: "gave up restoring from suspend" doesn't sound like the relevant part of the error, it should skip over that and continue booting.
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3435[21:16:52] <joepublic> brutser, if you have inxi instaled, then `inxi -G` will tell you what driver(s) your video card is actually using.
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3437[21:17:24] <brutser> joepublic: will check that
3438[21:18:08] <joepublic> that's also one way to see whether you have 3d accelleration. (if it just says "MESA", you don't)
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3440[21:18:25] <omarek> petn-randall: it's followed by "gave up waiting for root file system device"
3441[21:18:51] <omarek> and "ALERT! UUID=blah-blah-blah does not exist. Dropping to a shell!
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3443[21:20:23] <omarek> pasiz: my only available device that can fit the whole image is a 5TiB USB HDD (and no SMART support, which the two HGST ones have)
3444[21:20:37] <omarek> pasiz: won't that be too different? I have honestly no idea.
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3449[21:22:19] <petn-randall> omarek: Is the root filesystem somehow set up, e.g. with RAID and/or LVM?
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3460[21:26:08] <se7en> I had a question about the calendar program
3461[21:26:15] <omarek> petn-randall: RAID deffinitely not, but I *might* have tried LVM a few years ago to try it out, with default settings by Debian installer.
3462[21:26:15] <se7en> On tomorrow's date it has this entry
3463[21:26:24] <se7en> Aug 14 First Unix-based mallet created, 1954
3464[21:26:28] <se7en> What does that mean?
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3469[21:29:04] <johnfg> pasiz: Thanks for the suggestion. letsencrypt/certbot installed quickly, and I've got the cert installed, passed the tests, and functioning properly. thanks for the suggestion/help!
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3476[21:30:34] <crn> se7en, unix wasn't around in 1954.
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3479[21:31:06] <omarek> petn-randall: The test told me in advance it will be running for 107 minutes. I'm impressed.
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3481[21:31:29] <se7en> crn: I know
3482[21:31:41] <se7en> That is why I am incredibly confused that the debian calendar says this
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3484[21:32:12] <pasiz> johnm: u'r welcome, and now it's also something considered safe, in comparison with that self signed cert
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3486[21:32:15] <lf94> Can you have a debian chroot with sid, and run X from it and stuff?
3487[21:32:18] <petn-randall> omarek: So you might want to test mounting your root filesystem in the live OS, and see why it fails. That's probably gonna be the same reason why it doesn't boot.
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3489[21:32:32] <lf94> i.e. live inside a chroot for everything, and have your "top most" OS be debian stable
3490[21:32:45] <lf94> Sounds like a really nice thing to do
3491[21:32:49] <crn> se7en, right.
3492[21:33:11] <petn-randall> lf94: To a certain extent maybe, though the level of isolation will be quite limited.
3493[21:33:35] <lf94> petn-randall: the main concern would be deps not stepping on each others toes :)
3494[21:33:37] <omarek> petn-randall: I'm running it on my secondary, non-root hard drive now. I reckon it's safe to run on the broken drive as well?
3495[21:33:51] <lf94> petn-randall: process isolation is not a concern.
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3517[21:43:15] <brutser> inxi -G show: Device-1: AMD Richland [Radeon HD8650G] driver: N/A >> Device 2: AMD SunPro [Radeon HD 8570A/8570M] driver: N/A >> Display: server: X.Org 1.20.4 driver: ati,vesa >> unloaded: fbdev, modesetting,radeon resolution: 1368x768 >> OpenGL: renderer: llvmpipe (LLVM 7.0 128 bits) v: 3.3 Mesa 18.3.6
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3519[21:43:33] <brutser> joepublic ^^
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3521[21:44:29] <petn-randall> omarek: Run what exactly? SMART long selftest? That's non-destructive, yes.
3522[21:44:35] <joepublic> llvmpipe is software-emulated 3d acceleration
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3526[21:45:28] <joepublic> "unloaded: radeon" is probably the result of no firmware
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3530[21:49:55] <omarek> gdisk doesn't let me exit without 'w'riting, but 'w' doesn't pass because it complains about errors. What to do?
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3540[21:57:05] <Bushmills> If I were you, I'd read what those errors are
3541[21:58:04] <jawa78> Do I have super cow powers?
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3551[22:00:23] <Bushmills> depends on whether you have mooed today
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3560[22:03:29] <jawa78> Bushmills: Thanks I was doing a demo of irssi for a friend.
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3574[22:10:08] <zbychuk> Hi, how to monitor openvpn server using monit. What is a working example?
3575[22:10:37] <zbychuk> I tried google, but can't find anything
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3579[22:11:09] <brutser> joepublic: after installing firmware-linux-nonfree > Device1.... driver: radeon v: kernel >>OpenGL: renderer: AMD ARUBA (DRM 2.50.0 / 4.19.0-5-amd64 LLVM 7.0.1) v 4.3. Mesa 18.3.6
3580[22:11:12] <jhutchins_wk> zbychuk: What do you want to monitor?
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3583[22:12:01] <joepublic> driver radeon is now not unloaded, your renderer is now AMD ARUBA hardware.
3584[22:12:20] <zbychuk> jhutchins_wk: status of openvpn systemd service
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3588[22:12:54] <brutser> joepublic: yea, so no way around that really, if i don't install it, i get really crappy display quality, even not good for running simple desktop ui in a virtual machine
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3591[22:13:23] <brutser> i guess we have to trust amd then with their firmwares ^^^
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3594[22:13:51] <joepublic> My decision was to shrug and pick a different machine to do VMs on.
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3598[22:14:38] <brutser> joepublic: yea, but the rest of the machine is coreboot'ed and all the hardware is 95% opensource
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3600[22:15:12] <joepublic> I respect that. It's rare for someone to go to all that trouble for a laptop with radeon.
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3605[22:16:54] <brutser> joepublic: maybe i can somehow make it to a point that it's acceptable, i mean , just vesa with some clever config should be workable? maybe? :)
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3607[22:17:19] <brutser> again, it's not that i will game on it, far from, only some linux distro's with a desktop running in vm's
3608[22:17:31] <brutser> and most of the vm's are servers anyway without desktop, but ok, i still need that
3609[22:17:37] <joepublic> it's possible that you could convince xrandr to pretend there is a different geometry.
3610[22:18:35] <jhutchins_wk> zbychuk: Network Manager can sort-of monitor it. nagios would probably be overkill.
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3617[22:19:16] <Bushmills> zbychuk: you want to keep it running in case it stops?
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3621[22:20:13] <Bushmills> testing for presence of pid file ought to be sufficient
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3627[22:21:34] <Bushmills> something like this: replaced-url
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3631[22:22:02] <Bushmills> (name of pid file set in configuration accordingly, naturally)
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3634[22:23:28] <greycat> For the record, even though nobody will listen to me, PID files are an abomination of a hack, and using them is fundamentally flawed. If you want to restart a process whenever it dies, either set it up as a respawning service, or just have some shell run it in an infinite loop.
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3637[22:23:45] <debish> Hi guys, this is not 100% related to Debian itself but I wanted to ask if any of you is using sway (window manager) from experimental by apt pinnning. If so, do you find it usable as a daily driver? Thanks!
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3640[22:24:25] <annadane> anything from experimental is basically never going to be usable as a daily driver
3641[22:24:38] <annadane> sway itself may be, perhaps one can compile from source, but experimental is use at your own risk
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3643[22:25:24] <Bushmills> greycat: monit is a program do so such restarting.
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3645[22:25:40] <greycat> so is systemd, so are runit and daemontools, etc.
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3647[22:25:49] <Bushmills> it does need a clue when a service has stopped. it can probe ports, check presence of process and so on
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3649[22:26:10] <greycat> no, "checking for a process" means you are doing itw rong.
3650[22:26:12] <Bushmills> checking pid file is an option too
3651[22:26:18] <greycat> checking PID files means you are doing it wrong
3652[22:26:36] <greycat> checking ANYTHING AT ALL means you are doing it wrong
3653[22:26:37] <humpled> -*
3654[22:26:42] <humpled> oops
3655[22:26:44] <greycat> the parent knows when it died because the parent is already waiting for it
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3657[22:27:09] <greycat> while true; do ./mygameserver --foreground; done
3658[22:27:13] <greycat> Blam, done.
3659[22:27:14] <debish> annadane, yep, I understand what experimental means, I'm basically asking if someone has tried that specific sway version from debian repos
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3662[22:28:38] <Bushmills> greycat, that's one way, but this disallows controlling the process with a program like monit, which is what zbychuk is using and asking about
3663[22:28:50] <greycat> See, I knew nobody would listen to me.
3664[22:28:54] <greycat> Oh well. I tride.
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3667[22:29:17] <humpled> i listened
3668[22:29:36] <Bushmills> appreciated. but you may want to convince zbychuk to cease using monit
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3672[22:30:01] <greycat> ,info monit
3673[22:30:02] <judd> No package named 'monit' was found in buster/amd64.
3674[22:30:07] <greycat> No idea what that is.
3675[22:30:22] <Bushmills> ,v monit
3676[22:30:23] <judd> Package: monit on amd64 -- jessie: 1:5.9-1+deb8u1; jessie-security: 1:5.9-1+deb8u2; stretch: 1:5.20.0-6; buster-backports: 1:5.26.0-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 1:5.26.0-1; sid: 1:5.26.0-1
3677[22:31:01] <greycat> oh, this should be hilarious...
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3680[22:31:12] <greycat> replaced-url
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3683[22:31:37] <greycat> Bug #930637
3684[22:31:38] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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3692[22:35:11] <greycat> I'm ... really confused by this bug report. It seems to assume some substantial background information that I do not possess.
3693[22:35:32] <Bushmills> sounds like a procedural, not a technical matter to me
3694[22:35:37] <annadane> i've heard of monit before and always thought it was some kind of bitcoin thing
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3698[22:36:39] <Bushmills> it's mostly a kind of service web switch panel
3699[22:37:17] <Bushmills> allowing to automate control with a script like language
3700[22:37:18] <greycat> well, no wonder it's full of security bugs and not being maintained.
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3705[22:39:34] <Bushmills> and it still made it into oldstable and before ...
3706[22:39:49] <Bushmills> what does that day about Debian quality management :)
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3735[22:55:10] <zerocool> ever since upgrading from debian 9 to 10, powershell does not work properly. for upgraded systems it mostly still works except when related to SSL (invoke-restmethod fails). At the bottom of this page: replaced-url
3736[22:55:37] <zerocool> it says set the environment variable to use libssl 1.1, i have tried and this does not seem to work
3737[22:56:06] <zerocool> via /etc/environment, and also via systemd unit "Environment" directive
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3741[22:56:56] <zerocool> anyone have any ideas as to how to test this or set this?
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3778[23:10:34] <mns> 25
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3805[23:19:38] <lavalike> hello, what does it mean if apt list --upgradable shows wget/oldstable,oldstable and wget/now ?
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3824[23:28:55] <Bushmills> I could have mentioned that probing ports allows reacting to a "stuck" process, one which still runs, but doesn't respond to port activity. That's a case where just restarting the process in an endless loop will fail.
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3842[23:40:02] <crn> locate libssl
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