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• 4[00:00:47] <gnat_x> mpd had cli (mpc, or ncmpc for curses), and ario is gui app, but not very easy to use imho. i mostly use mpd with ncmpc myself.
• 5[00:01:14] <gnat_x> (though i know nothing about getting it working with jack)
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• 7[00:02:29] <H-var> I'll try to use jackd
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• 10[00:03:23] <H-var> I try to use upplay on debian with mpd, but I get this error after adding ppa to the repository
• 11[00:03:28] <H-var> E: The repository 'replaced-url
• 12[00:03:35] <freem> H-var: maybe you can find help there: replaced-url
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• 14[00:03:40] <H-var> I followed this instruction: replaced-url
• 15[00:03:57] <H-var> N: Updating from such a repository can't be done securely, and is therefore disabled by default.
• 16[00:04:00] <freem> oh, I guess french is not a problem then
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• 18[00:04:04] <H-var> how can I still install it?
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• 20[00:05:15] <jmcnaught> H-var: looks like you added the Ubuntu repo instead of the Debian one?
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• 27[00:12:18] <H-var> I try to add this one: replaced-url
• 28[00:12:56] <H-var> so I created a file /etc/apt/sources.list.d/upmpdcli.list and inserted this: eb replaced-url
• 29[00:13:04] <H-var> but it says there's no Release file
• 30[00:13:09] <H-var> how can I correct it?
• 31[00:13:27] <H-var> *deb
• 32[00:13:48] <jmcnaught> H-var: are you on raspbian or armhf Debian? Or is this a PC?
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• 34[00:13:57] <H-var> it's a PC
• 35[00:14:32] <jmcnaught> H-var: you want the lines under "x86 Debian" then
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• 39[00:18:11] <H-var> jmcnaught I added those lines, but I still get this error: E: The repository 'replaced-url
• 40[00:18:45] <H-var> should I change BUSTER to buster?
• 41[00:19:08] <freem> yes
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• 43[00:20:44] <H-var> freem it worked :D
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• 47[00:23:57] <rander2> hello
• 48[00:24:11] <jhutchins> H-var: That's something the repo maintainer has to fix.
• 49[00:24:21] <rander2> quadrathoch2, all right now
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• 52[00:24:42] <jhutchins> H-var: Oh, nevermind.
• 53[00:24:43] <rander2> I'm running deb10 on a microSD 32Gbite
• 54[00:25:08] <rander2> but it's terrible slow,incredible slow
• 55[00:25:17] <jhutchins> rander2: That would be expected.
• 56[00:25:23] <H-var> great, finally I have upplay, but I have no idea what it is, and how to use it :D
• 57[00:25:32] <jhutchins> rander2: Would also run horribly on a USB stick.
• 58[00:26:08] <jhutchins> rander2: What you need is either a live image from Debian Live, or build-your-own from pendrivelinux.com.
• 59[00:26:24] <rander2> I think to use only the microSD , but it's impossible. I is more moreslow than raspberry. raspberry boot very fast
• 60[00:26:28] <jhutchins> rander2: You have to run the entire OS from RAM, except for persistent writes.
• 61[00:27:48] <rander2> and this microSD is of high quality , theoretically 90Mbite/sec , but in fast in a disaster. It's more more slow than a mechanical hd 5400 rpm
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• 63[00:28:59] <rander2> however raspbian on raspberry 3 boot in some seconds
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• 66[00:29:42] <H-var> thank you sney, I'll try jack with audacity
• 67[00:29:46] <rander2> about 30 seconds. With the laptop boot in some minute
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• 78[00:34:35] <rander2> why any pc see SD card as /dev/sdb and others as /dev/mmcblk ??
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• 87[00:39:27] <mutante> rander2: because it depends how many other devices there are and it just starts with a and counts up. but also this has recently been "resolved" by coming up with UIDs instead "UUIDs are used instead, which remain constant no matter what you add/remove to/from your computer."
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• 92[00:41:32] <H-var> okay with jackd I was able to force my DAC into locked 192KHz, and the audio is working!
• 93[00:41:42] <H-var> thank you so much, guys
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• 95[00:43:58] <H-var> cat /proc/asound/S112/pcm0p/sub0/hw_params: rate: 192000 (192000/1)
• 96[00:45:29] <H-var> I use option "soundcard connected to the jack server" in clementine output selection menu
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• 102[00:48:03] <plujon> What's the usual way to query whether a package is already installed?
• 103[00:48:44] <plujon> apt-get -s install build-essential # output could be parsed, but ewe...
• 104[00:49:16] <mutante> plujon: dpkg -l <package name>
• 105[00:49:25] *** Quits: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 106[00:50:00] <mutante> plujon: dpkg --get-selections | grep <something>
• 107[00:50:14] *** Quits: m0u_ (~m0u@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 108[00:50:31] <plujon> mutante: Thanks; hmm...
• 109[00:50:35] <rander2> to view the packet installed
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• 111[00:52:59] <petn-randall> Can anyone recommend a NFC reader that has in-kernel FOSS drivers?
• 112[00:53:30] <petn-randall> I've bought a Identiv SCL3711, but I noticed that the drivers are proprietary and don't compile with newer kernels.
• 113[00:54:07] *** Quits: StathisA (~StathisA@replaced-ip) (Quit: bb)
• 114[00:54:35] <plujon> I'm updating a bootstrap build script and I want to discover if about 8 packages are installed so I can avoid invoking sudo if they are already present.
• 115[00:55:54] <plujon> dpkg -l build-essential nasm | grep ^i # is rather awkward
• 116[00:55:54] <dpkg> No packages found matching build-essential nasm | grep ^i # is rather awkward
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• 119[00:56:38] <mutante> plujon: you just need "dpkg -l package". if the package was found it will exit with 0, if not with 1
• 120[00:56:47] <mutante> so you can directly put it inside an "if"
• 121[00:57:09] <qaluH> | grep package if u dont know package name
• 122[00:57:39] <plujon> mutante: Oh, hmm. I see some packages with Desired: "Remove", status: "Conf-files". Hmm.
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• 124[00:58:05] <mutante> plujon: the way that Icinga/Nagios would check for "clean DPKG state" is to check if all lines start with "ii"
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• 126[00:58:15] <rander2> what is the more fast SD ? It is comparable with a mechanical hd ?
• 127[00:58:22] <mutante> that means "should be installed AND is installed"
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• 129[00:59:03] <rander2> I'm using a samsung EVO microSD
• 130[00:59:47] <plujon> dpkg -l lmodern # exit 0, starts with 'rc' ...
• 131[00:59:47] <dpkg> No packages found matching lmodern # exit 0, starts with 'rc' ...
• 132[01:00:36] <mutante> plujon: packages="acl at foobar"; for package in $packages; do if dpkg -l $package > /dev/null; then echo "${package} is installed"; else echo "${package} not found"; fi; done
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• 135[01:01:05] <plujon> mutante: Hmm. That sounds okay, but I'm confused. Is lmodern installed on my computer?
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• 137[01:01:32] <plujon> dkpg -l lmodern # exit 0
• 138[01:01:43] <plujon> apt-get install lmodern # prints NEW packages it will install
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• 140[01:02:06] <mutante> plujon: look at the first few lines at the very top in output of "dpkg -l"
• 141[01:02:12] <mutante> it explains the meaning of the letters
• 142[01:02:23] <mutante> the first is always "desired" and the second what it currently is
• 143[01:02:45] <plujon> mutante: Yeah, unfortunately, I don't understand them. The if loop you provide seems to assume that dpkg -l foo will exit non-zero if the package is not installed.
• 144[01:02:49] <mutante> rc means the package is removed but the config is not purged
• 145[01:03:25] <mutante> yea, that's a special case when people remove it without using --purge
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• 147[01:03:53] <mutante> a lazy way to fix it is add another | grep ii i guess
• 148[01:04:17] <mutante> let's see if dpkg has more options for that
• 149[01:04:17] <plujon> for package in $packages; do dpkg -l $package | grep -q ^ii || sudo apt-get install $package; done # like so..?
• 150[01:05:31] <mutante> plujon: well.. if your only action is to install it if it doesn't exist you could as well just run apt-get install every time?
• 151[01:05:54] <mutante> or you want to prevent upgrades.. hmm
• 152[01:05:55] <plujon> mutante: Invoking sudo is sometimes harmful.
• 153[01:06:09] *** Quits: Ingvix (~Ingvix@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 154[01:06:35] <plujon> mutante: A build system that stupidly does "sudo apt-get install <8+ packages>" requires interaction, even when the sudo serves no purpose.
• 155[01:07:23] *** Quits: t3st3r (~t3st3r@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 156[01:07:52] <plujon> The build system is mozilla's, and I'm trying to improve it as it seems kinda dumb to prompt users for their sudo password when the necessary packages are already installed.
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• 158[01:08:04] <mutante> plujon: here's some more options. you can try and search it in /var/lib/apt/extended_states
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• 162[01:08:46] <qaluH> what is the actual problem?
• 163[01:08:55] <qaluH> sry, im here for 5 minutes
• 164[01:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1169
• 165[01:09:02] <mutante> plujon: apt list --installed
• 166[01:09:30] <mutante> qaluH: "check if a package is installed but don't trip over the ones in 'rc' state"
• 167[01:09:42] <mutante> "without using | grep" :p
• 168[01:09:54] <qaluH> alias
• 169[01:10:17] <qaluH> an, no you want isntalled
• 170[01:10:25] <plujon> qaluH: ./mach bootstrap # from mozilla, unconditionally invokes 'sudo apt-get install build-essentials and-a-few-others', I think it should first see if the apt-get install is necessary, and I'm trying to understand how to properly query whether a package is already installed.
• 171[01:10:29] <qaluH> can u pass variables in a alias?
• 172[01:10:30] <mutante> plujon: try what "apt list --installed" says to you about that package that you had in "rc"
• 173[01:11:14] <mutante> but then he will need grep again to get a 0 or 1 return code
• 174[01:11:20] <mutante> where "dpkg -l <package>" already does that
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• 180[01:12:20] <mutante> there is more like "dpkg-query -W -f='${PackageSpec} ${Status}\n' | grep installed"
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• 182[01:12:27] <mutante> but they all use grep in the end to filter :)
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• 184[01:12:29] <mutante> so whatever works
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• 186[01:13:02] <plujon> I don't know what an alias is or variables. I'm surprised that this isn't builtin to dpkg or apt. apt-get -s install build-essential # is close, but requires grep-like parsing
• 187[01:13:17] <mutante> also replaced-url
• 188[01:13:20] <plujon> (, 0 newly installed => not needed)
• 189[01:13:22] <qaluH> why do you dont want to use grep? becuase its grep or because its too "long"ß
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• 192[01:13:50] <mutante> plujon: but maybe the answer is just that nothing bad about using grep :)
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• 194[01:14:34] <mutante> I agree though that "dpkg -l " should not return 0 when a package is "rc"
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• 196[01:14:43] <mutante> does it really do that? I did not check myself.
• 197[01:15:05] *** Joins: kimmyk (~kimmyk@replaced-ip)
• 198[01:15:25] <mutante> yea, it does. that's kind of a bug one could say
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• 200[01:17:49] <H-var> I'm trying to install sayonara, but it depends on some package, but it is not installable (sayonara : Depends: libgstreamer-plugins-good1.0-0 but it is not installable). How can I install it, or fix this issue when it happens?
• 201[01:18:15] <qaluH> apt install -f
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• 203[01:19:54] <jmcnaught> H-var: is the package for Debian 10? Or some other distro?
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• 207[01:20:59] <rander2> what file modify in grub to delete some entry ?
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• 209[01:22:05] <H-var> jmcnaught I don't know, how can I find that out?
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• 211[01:23:25] <jmcnaught> H-var: where is the package from?
• 212[01:23:40] <qaluH> asing in IRC
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• 214[01:23:44] <qaluH> *asking
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• 217[01:24:29] <H-var> rander /boot/grub/grub.cfg
• 218[01:24:57] <H-var> jmcnaught I don't know, from debian?
• 219[01:25:54] <H-var> from sayonara?
• 220[01:25:55] <sorcerer> H-var: are you using apt? snap? a file you downloaded?
• 221[01:26:19] <H-var> I am trying to install it from a file
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• 225[01:26:37] <H-var> from this one: replaced-url
• 226[01:27:35] <jmcnaught> H-var: that's for Ubuntu. You cannot install Ubuntu packages on Debian.
• 227[01:28:11] <mutante> plujon: here's one that avoids grep and is reliable: package="acl"; if [[ $(dpkg-query -f '${Status}\n' -W ${package}) == "install ok installed" ]]; then echo "installed fo shizzle"; else echo "nah, better sudo that shit"; fi
• 228[01:28:22] <qaluH> bionic, disco, disco is this ubuntu?
• 229[01:28:29] <qaluH> *eoan
• 230[01:29:06] <H-var> it says "Ubuntu/Debian"
• 231[01:29:34] <qaluH> yeah, but dont know what this should tell me
• 232[01:29:39] <H-var> thank you, jmcnaught
• 233[01:29:49] <mutante> lsb_release -c
• 234[01:30:01] <sorcerer> I just successfully installed Sayonara with snap, on a virtual machine running debian bullseye
• 235[01:30:02] <qaluH> beowulf
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• 237[01:30:50] <mutante> qaluH: sounds like it's replaced-url
• 238[01:30:56] *** Quits: Sabaku (~Sabaku@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 239[01:31:03] <mutante> fork to remove systemd :p
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• 241[01:31:19] <H-var> is snapd safe to install?
• 242[01:31:50] <mason> H-var: The only issues I see with snapd are that it's not clear how to reproduce the things, get the source, etc.
• 243[01:32:02] <mason> H-var: So "safe" depends on who makes the snap.
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• 245[01:32:07] <qaluH> y, it is
• 246[01:32:48] <H-var> cause there was a discussion some time ago that people were never able to check the source code properly because some parts are closed or something
• 247[01:33:44] <H-var> and also they track people on their website
• 248[01:33:50] <qaluH> how should be code closed?
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• 250[01:34:07] <mason> H-var: Everyone tracks web visits.
• 251[01:34:26] <H-var> I don't track visits
• 252[01:34:40] <qaluH> why not?
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• 254[01:35:23] <H-var> because it makes website load slower for people with slower internet
• 255[01:36:35] <qaluH> no, tracking is serverside
• 256[01:38:02] *** Quits: ltl3 (9ede9152@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 257[01:38:53] <H-var> scripts are required to be loaded onto the client's computing machine
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• 261[01:41:45] <H-var> qaluH I don't know how to close the code. I guess, this feature is included with certain programming applications?
• 262[01:42:40] <qaluH> which code?
• 263[01:43:15] *** Quits: Tobbi (~Tobbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 264[01:43:17] <H-var> "4.3 Canonical may remove your Snap from the Snap Store at any time in its sole discretion."
• 265[01:43:23] <H-var> wow, great rule
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• 267[01:46:15] <mutante> it's a difference whether you have a logfile line in webserver config that said "this IP was here and wanted this file" or if you use javascript to track where they navigate within your site, where they came from, where they go next, their clipboard content and whatnot :)
• 268[01:46:30] <mutante> so there is tracking and 'tracking'
• 269[01:47:28] <freem> I'd say the 1st phrase is not tracking, since you don't follow users outside your server
• 270[01:48:12] <freem> nor inform other people that IP1 went to your server to download files F1, F3 and F666
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• 272[01:48:20] <mutante> I would say the main reason to not use it is that you don't want multiple package managers on the same system. if you have APT and snap and npm and pip and then the install tutorials are all "curl | bash" then you end up with a mess
• 273[01:48:54] <mutante> but nobody wants to build proper Deb packages to they find 100 ways around it
• 274[01:49:15] <freem> well, maybe the snap images will contain pip, npm & co, so people won't have to bother anymore destroying their systems because they installed npm as root
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• 277[01:50:24] <freem> (I repaired more than one system due to that damn npm installed as root... time loss for a crappy language anyway)
• 278[01:50:57] <neorpheus> Hello all. im having some trouble with a bash script and hoping someone may be able to help. its supposed to be a simple script to check my external ip and update my google domains dynamic dns entry. the log file is getting updated with the entries listed on lines 3-5 but at that point the script just hangs. it does not actually update the dyndns
• 279[01:50:57] <neorpheus> entry though i have verified syntax and user credentials multiple times. any help would be greatly appreciated. replaced-url
• 280[01:50:57] <mutante> they list that getting software from the author "directly to users without any intervention from distribution maintainers" like an advantage. but it also translates to "nobody else looked at it" and is much closer to "install things from random people"
• 281[01:51:29] <mutante> not sure you can call that "safe" (despite of course a "is it safe" question can never really be answered yes or no)
• 282[01:51:43] <freem> mutante: I read "let's do what people do on windows, and make linux powerusers repair their friends/colleagues systems because we snap don't care"
• 283[01:52:22] <mutante> freem: that's a way to summarize it i guess :p heh
• 284[01:52:51] <freem> the name is well chosent though: "snap" looks like a rope which breaks
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• 286[01:53:23] <mutante> neorpheus: fyi, you don't have to reinvent the wheel. there are multiple packages in Debian for just that
• 287[01:53:36] <mutante> apt-cache search dyndns
• 288[01:53:41] <qaluH> this isnt tracking, this is spying
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• 291[01:54:27] <mutante> neorpheus: you can try to run your script with "bash -x" to get more details what it does
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• 293[01:55:34] <qaluH> can u post the script on pastebin?
• 294[01:55:50] <qaluH> with a commend where it stucks?
• 295[01:57:16] <neorpheus> qaluH, see the end of my question for pastebin link. mutante, thank you i was unaware og the "bash -x" trick. turns out that the public ip and dyndns ip are both resolving to my vpn ip so no update ever gets sent to google
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• 298[01:58:44] <qaluH> oh sry,
• 299[01:59:28] <t3st3r> canonical also haves plenty of other interesting policies and terms, ranging from privacy intrusion to being restrictive on trademarks and repos use
• 300[01:59:29] <qaluH> while true; do
• 301[02:00:00] <qaluH> why are u doing this?
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• 306[02:00:47] <neorpheus> because true will never become false causing the script to loop infinitely
• 307[02:00:59] <qaluH> i see
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• 309[02:01:10] <qaluH> there is a sleep
• 310[02:01:21] <qaluH> would it not be nicer to do this with crontab
• 311[02:01:23] <qaluH> ?
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• 314[02:02:46] <neorpheus> i suppose youre right, cron would be a more elegant solution
• 315[02:03:18] <xlirate> I am having trouble launching deluge in the latest upgrade of sid. "builtins.TypeError: findCaller() takes from 1 to 2 positional arguments but 3 were given" Is there a way to fix this, or should I be looking for a new client?
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• 318[02:05:15] <xlirate> Sorry, wrong debian channel
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• 327[02:13:23] <mutante> neorpheus: glad it helped. I think the most reliable solution would be to use one of the existing dyndns clients. but since you already wrote it.. systemd service and timer is more modern than cron
• 328[02:13:44] <mutante> and then you get some advantages like logs and knowing when it failed
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• 341[02:35:07] <asterismo> hi
• 342[02:35:20] <asterismo> i still cannot make the system resume after suspend
• 343[02:35:37] <asterismo> i installed several firmware packages, with no luck
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• 345[02:39:44] <asterismo> this is a picture i took on how screen resume and freeze: replaced-url
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• 347[02:45:28] <asterismo> replaced-url
• 348[02:45:33] <RoyK> asterismo: file a bug, perhaps
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• 350[02:45:44] <asterismo> replaced-url
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• 354[02:51:56] <aypea[3]> asterismo: do you get the same issue using the closed source nvidia drivers? (get them out of backports for latest)
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• 356[02:53:50] <aypea[3]> (also add non-free to sources.list :)
• 357[02:55:11] <aypea[3]> asterismo: also output of dmesg|grep -i firmware (or grep -i firmware /var/log/syslog) may be of use,
• 358[02:55:23] <asterismo> wait
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• 360[02:55:49] <asterismo_m> replaced-url
• 361[02:55:50] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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• 371[03:01:51] <plujon> The output of dpkg-query and apt-get are both locale-dependent.
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• 373[03:02:13] <plujon> That's one reason grep is bad.
• 374[03:02:46] <freem> when you script `something`, you should use `LANG=C something`
• 375[03:03:07] <freem> saying grep is bad for that is the same that saying locales are bad
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• 378[03:05:35] <plujon> I disagree; grep is plenty useful in general. I mean that reyling on grep to implement an API is a bad idea.
• 379[03:06:08] <freem> oh, sorry then, I misinterpreted
• 380[03:06:12] <noxx_> grep is the only reason why i use linux
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• 382[03:06:46] <freem> then you can use Hurd :)
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• 460[04:14:34] <dk657> i'm trying to install debian on a thinkpad x1 carbon 8th gen
• 461[04:15:24] <dk657> historically i've done this (including on other thinkpads, a t440 and a p52) by using the netboot image with the wifi firmware on another usb key, and the install does something automagically
• 462[04:17:00] <dk657> but on the x1 carbon, the installer doesn't say anything about the missing firmware, and there's no wifi device: 'ip a' only lists the lo device and enp0s31f6, which i assume is the ethernet device
• 463[04:18:14] *** Quits: chiluk (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 464[04:21:53] <jmcnaught> dk657: can you install using ethernet? If the computer is newer than Debian 10's kernel then after you finish installation you can upgrade to a newer kernel from buster-backports.
• 465[04:22:27] *** Quits: SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 466[04:22:52] <dk657> jmcnaught: that would be my normal fallback, but this Fancy New Thin Light High Tech laptop requires some kind of dongle for ethernet
• 467[04:23:31] <jmcnaught> Dongle sold separately?
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• 469[04:23:41] <dk657> indeed
• 470[04:24:26] <dk657> i guess i should probably get one anyway...
• 471[04:25:48] <jmcnaught> dk657: you can install from a larger ISO like DVD-1 and after installation copy linux-image-5.8.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 and firmware-iwlwifi on a USB stick.
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• 474[04:28:17] <jmcnaught> You'll want the firmware-iwlwifi package from buster-backports of course.
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• 476[04:29:46] <dk657> jmcnaught: just copy over the deb files and install them?
• 477[04:30:21] <dk657> what is bpo? backports? i'm not familiar with the meaning of buster-backports
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• 479[04:30:57] <dk657> aaand i googled (:
• 480[04:31:52] *** Joins: TuxCrazy (~S@replaced-ip)
• 481[04:31:56] <TuxCrazy> hi...
• 482[04:32:28] <TuxCrazy> could anyone here suggest a good FOSS alternatiive to Microsoft Teams?
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• 485[04:34:20] <jmcnaught> TuxCrazy: replaced-url
• 486[04:34:52] <TuxCrazy> jmcnaught, I need a cross platform app.
• 487[04:35:18] <TuxCrazy> I need something that works on both Linux and Android.
• 488[04:36:28] <jmcnaught> TuxCrazy: replaced-url
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• 490[04:37:03] <themill> It depends on what features you want from something like Teams -- it is damned near its own operating system
• 491[04:37:07] <TuxCrazy> jmcnaught, I will try it. Thanks for that info.
• 492[04:37:54] <TuxCrazy> themill, I needed something like Microsoft Teams or Google Meet.
• 493[04:38:27] <themill> Since Meet is one very tiny subset of Teams, that's not very helpful
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• 496[04:39:15] <themill> What actual *function* do you need? chat? video? shared calendar? todo lists? file storage? document editing?
• 497[04:40:05] <TuxCrazy> video conferencing, chat, file sharing etc.
• 498[04:40:41] <themill> If you can't scope the problem, noone can recommend software for it.
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• 501[04:41:09] <TuxCrazy> I need an app for my online classes.
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• 503[04:43:40] <themill> If you want 1:many video, bandwidth becomes interesting to do on your own. Things like jitsi (for few people) or big blue button (for many people) will work
• 504[04:44:21] <TuxCrazy> themill, is jitsi reliable?
• 505[04:45:13] <themill> You'd be testing your setup out.
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• 507[04:46:47] <TuxCrazy> themill, I have seen its reviews on google play store. Some said that, sometimes students are kicked out of the class suddenly.
• 508[04:47:12] <TuxCrazy> may be it has some kind of connectivity problems.
• 509[04:48:03] <TuxCrazy> since, I use Linux distros only, I needed a FOSS app for this.
• 510[04:48:25] <TuxCrazy> I haven't used MS Windows for more than a year now.
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• 513[04:49:22] <gry> well done
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• 633[08:10:08] <unixbsd> it seems that gnus and debian have closed software, i.e. in kernel of Linux? is that right? (replaced-url
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• 655[08:24:11] <quadrathoch2> The kernel itself has no closed source software. But it can use it (for example firmware blobs) Unixbsd
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• 663[08:33:56] <GNU\colossus> well, linux-libre sure does cut out some stuff they consider non-free. like opaque BLOBs serialized in header files.
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• 665[08:35:54] <quadrathoch2> afaik that's only because they want to rip out the possibility to load blobs GNU\colossus
• 666[08:36:04] <quadrathoch2> that's why debian not fsf approved
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• 740[09:49:48] <genr8_> lol i just stumbled across this replaced-url
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• 747[09:52:24] <genr8_> help save roy. roy is symbolic for all of us.
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• 763[10:05:00] <ratrace> Omg, Roy Schestowitz! Let's delete HIM .... from the internet I mean.
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• 769[10:11:07] <ratrace> that article is satire, right? I mean nobody can be _that_ stupid ... ain't even april first...
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• 779[10:17:41] <genr8_> this is real life
• 780[10:20:50] <jelly> genr8_: talking about himself in third person wasn't enough of a warning?
• 781[10:21:12] * jelly points over at #debian-offtopic
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• 798[10:56:24] <freem> quadrathoch2: according to FSF (replaced-url
• 799[10:56:33] <t3st3r> unixbsd> it seems that gnus and debian have closed software, i.e. in kernel of Linux? is that right? <- some HW doesn't takes off without external firmware.
• 800[10:57:51] <t3st3r> Most notably, many wi-fi cards and GPUs.
• 801[10:58:22] <ratrace> what's "gnus"?
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• 805[11:00:38] <jelly> ratrace: typo for GUNS
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• 808[11:02:09] <ratrace> oh yeah, they have closed software. and roses. =)
• 809[11:02:14] <freem> jelly: GNUS ans ross
• 810[11:02:25] <freem> and*
• 811[11:02:32] <ratrace> roses*
• 812[11:02:38] <freem> replaced-url
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• 815[11:03:14] <freem> I had something else in mind originally, but this one is actually better :p
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• 840[11:38:43] <freem> I tinkering with lxde, trying to setup it despite using runit-init. Does anyone did it? So far, I got 2 issues (because I can't isntall lxsession, considering it requires policykit (which ends up requiring systemd, with obvious conflict here): Xsession is unable to launch "startlxde" (which is provided by lxsession) at start, and «invalid output from pipe-menu "/usr/bin/obamenu"» when trying to show applications from the menu.
• 841[11:39:00] <freem> I think I can handle the 1st part, but the 2nd I don't even know where to start searching
• 842[11:40:17] <freem> (and *please* do not discuss the "why not systemd": that's not the point here, systemd is great, but I prefer runit, which works fine for me since I do not normally use stuff requiring xsession. I'm just trying to understand how that's hard for people using those)
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• 845[11:45:49] <ratrace> freem: well, you broke it, you get to keep the pieces.
• 846[11:46:29] <freem> technically, I broke nothing, I just installed some deb packages :)
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• 849[11:47:39] <hooway> i somehow managed to remove/disable xfce4-panel
• 850[11:48:12] <ratrace> freem: thing is, systemd is a whole middleware suite, not just "an init". so your assuming you use runit "instead of " systemd, is a wrong premies.
• 851[11:48:32] <hooway> is there a way to bring xfce4-panel back?
• 852[11:48:40] <freem> ratrace: I know that.
• 853[11:48:42] <ratrace> freem: by that I mean... you need to, then, solve the requirements for logind APIs. which is needed to set up /dev ices for xorg to start
• 854[11:49:19] <ratrace> which all inevitably requires dbus and, by extension, polkit. I don't know if you can even install consolekit any more on debian...
• 855[11:49:20] <freem> And that's what I'm trying to do, actually. I just wanted to know if someone here have some links or alike
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• 857[11:50:09] <ratrace> freem: there is elogind, but that was the point of contention that spawned the latest GR and "promises" given in it.... so I'm guessing you'd need that at least. and you can't fully escape from libsystemd0, so don't even try.
• 858[11:50:25] <freem> tbh my daily setup is just runit doing everything, then I start my sessions with fgetty, then zsh, where there's a small one-liner doing "xinit" if tty = "/dev/tty1"
• 859[11:50:56] <ratrace> freem: can you install and use runit WITH systemd as PID 1?
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• 861[11:51:07] <ratrace> if it's all about process management....
• 862[11:51:34] <freem> I probably can, but that would defeat the point of my experiment. It's really only to have fun
• 863[11:51:49] <freem> (and grab some knowledge in the way)
• 864[11:52:00] <ratrace> freem: it wouldn't. systemd can start runit, you can systemctl mask <all services you want to control with runit>
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• 866[11:52:20] <ratrace> because, again, if you remove systemd, you've removed a big chunk of middleware required for the distro to operate properly
• 867[11:52:24] <freem> yeah, sure
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• 869[11:52:48] <ratrace> which is of course possible, but with GUI thingies, that inevitable want dbus and polkit and logind APIs .... that's gonna hurt a lot. why do you think devuan took so long to do what they do :)
• 870[11:52:51] <freem> s/for the distro/for the desktop environment/
• 871[11:53:02] <jelly> ,v elogind
• 872[11:53:03] <judd> Package: elogind on amd64 -- buster: 239.3+20190131-1+debian1; bullseye: 243.7-1+debian1; sid: 243.7-1+debian1
• 873[11:53:04] <ratrace> without gui thingies, I think it should be a straightforward replacement
• 874[11:53:47] <freem> it is. It's even straightforward with GUI thingies, as long as you build your "DE" yourself, avoiding the "all in one" ones
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• 876[11:56:01] <ratrace> freem: yes, keyword: build. build and compile? sure, it's a cakewalk. using prebuilt debian packages? not so.
• 877[11:56:27] * ratrace is a gentooista, knows the power of build and compile DIY :)
• 878[11:56:28] <freem> no, I meant build as in "pick your packages".
• 879[11:56:57] <ratrace> freem: well not quite. for starters, you can't get rid of dbus wihtout recompiling
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• 881[11:57:06] <ratrace> dbus will also want polkit to deal with permissions
• 882[11:57:38] <ratrace> (which in turn will require (e)logind API if I'm not mistaken)
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• 884[11:57:39] <freem> heh. Debian have quite the power under it :) you *can* choose to not install dbus
• 885[11:57:51] <freem> or you can choose to install dbus, without polkit
• 886[11:58:03] <shtrb> ratrace, you need litterally to modify a lot of software to get rid of dbus for example
• 887[11:58:34] <freem> not really. They have a dependency on libdbus, not on dbus itself
• 888[11:58:57] <freem> so far, the only one I had problems with if dbus not installed is xsane
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• 890[11:59:10] <shtrb> I'm talking about the service itself - so you will no longer have dbus running at all , removed , purged , nuked etc..
• 891[11:59:21] <ratrace> shtrb: don't tell me, that's what I'm saying from the beginning
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• 894[11:59:39] <ratrace> freem: well true, technically, but things aren't gonna work properly wihtout actual dbus to use
• 895[11:59:41] <freem> running quassel (my own build, not wanting the full kde here), vivaldi, speedcrunch, rxvt, xosview, claws-mail, firefox everyday
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• 897[12:00:21] <shtrb> ratrace, I tried to rephrase what you said in simpler ways , your comment might sound as if that was just a compile option . there are actual code flows that relay souly on dbus now
• 898[12:00:25] <freem> forgot to mention mpd, for the daily use. Very important one :) then I use some other tools from time to time
• 899[12:00:41] <ratrace> shtrb: which is then not a compile time option.
• 900[12:00:57] <ratrace> so, some software has, some doesn't and very hard depends on dbus
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• 903[12:01:41] <freem> even when dbus is installed, it does not requires systemd. Saying so is wrong, and may give food to systemd haters
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• 905[12:02:03] <bauen1> hi, i'm trying to use simple-cdd to automatically build preseeded debian images, to skip the keyboard and locale question i've added preseed values to the kernel cmdline, but no matter what i supply for debian-installer/locale the logs always indicate it being preseeded as 'C' and being invalid and i get asked the locale anyway, e.g. supplying `locale=en_US.UTF-8`
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• 908[12:02:31] <ratrace> dbus doesn't directly require systemd, nor does systemd require dbus any more, PER SE . My point here is that GUI things will require dbus on Debian because that's how they're built
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• 910[12:02:46] <ratrace> some hard depend, some soft (libdbus and may or may not work properly with actual dbus present)
• 911[12:03:21] <freem> ratrace, shtrb: fact is, installing gtk applications by default will try to install dbus-user-session, which depends on libpam-elogind, but it's possible to choose the dbus-x11 option,too
• 912[12:03:30] <jelly> ratrace: systemctl talkd to systemd over dbus.
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• 914[12:03:37] <ratrace> and things that will require dbus, might|will also require polkit because that's the autorization thingy for dbus actions. polkit will then require the API provided by (e)logind. that's the cycle.
• 915[12:04:08] <ratrace> jelly: it's not a hard requirement, and only pplies to unprivileged user trying to use systemctl, and THEN systemd requires polkit to see of the unpriv user is authorized.
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• 917[12:04:29] <ratrace> if there's no dbus, systemctl will refuse (with an unhelpful message) to do what's requested.
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• 919[12:05:00] <jelly> ratrace: except when it doesn't refuse and reboots your machine early ;-)
• 920[12:05:21] <ratrace> never saw that happen if there's no dbus installed
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• 922[12:05:46] <ratrace> (and, nota bene, it's very much possible to run servers with no dbus in sight, I have a few dozen of 'em :) )
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• 925[12:07:40] <ratrace> freem: I'm gonna be facetious for a moment and say: if it were that easy, you wouldn't be here with the problem you're having :)
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• 927[12:08:20] <freem> true enough :) except that it's to install a classic DE, not a thing I've put pieces together myself :p
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• 936[12:18:48] <freem> haha that joke
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• 938[12:19:29] <freem> ratrace: the obamenu error... well, ran obamenu in a terminal: "/usr/bin/env: 'python': No such file or directory"
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• 941[12:20:00] <shtrb> freem, you could always reminplement and modify plasma to be able to work without dbus and systemd (please start with ofono and bluez because I'm so stuck with it and the documenation )
• 942[12:20:01] <freem> ofc, I installed that system in a rather unusual way...
• 943[12:20:49] <freem> hum... I think openbox should recommend python
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• 945[12:21:56] <freem> obamenu is provided by the openbox package, which recommends 1: obconf|obconf-qt 2:obsession and 3: scrot, but I believe python should be there too, since some files there requires it, and it's required to work with default config
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• 948[12:24:19] <freem> shtrb: sorry, I just intend to have fun with debian's packages of lxde because it's rather lightweight. KDE is not.
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• 950[12:25:16] <freem> and as long as I enjoy using qt applications, I don't really enjoy writing them
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• 953[12:27:02] <freem> well, got lxde working, finally. Was not that hard, just had to not rely on lxdm/lightdm/whateverdm and install python2
• 954[12:28:06] <freem> oh... openbox package in sid have a hard dependence on python3, so I guess I would nothave had the issue there
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• 956[12:28:51] <freem> "depends" is a bit strong imo, though, but hey, why not
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• 969[12:37:56] <ratrace> freem: using startx manually?
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• 971[12:42:06] <abff> "depends" means it won't work without it, as you proved by not being able to utilize obamenu, which is as you claim a part of openbox
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• 976[12:49:57] <freem> ratrace: yes, in fact, xinit, I just reproduced what I do usually
• 977[12:50:19] <freem> abff: I guess it makes sense
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• 980[12:52:47] <rgr> If I log in ttx style my ~/.pam_evironment is read. But its not if I log into XSESSION using gdms's default x session profile. How do I enable pam for the .xsession startup?
• 981[12:52:52] <rgr> tty
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• 985[13:00:34] <ratrace> freem: with elogind?
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• 988[13:02:41] <shtrb> Do I missunderstand or is pulseaudio a deprecated and about to be replaced by a different service in debian bulseye ?
• 989[13:02:53] <jelly> shtrb: news to me
• 990[13:03:08] <shtrb> So I missunderstand then ! thank you !
• 991[13:03:28] <jelly> why would it be deprecated now that finally works reliably enough
• 992[13:03:55] <shtrb> I probably didn't understand correctly , never mind , sorry false alarm
• 993[13:04:23] <shtrb> I'm trying to find the talk where I got that impression on
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• 997[13:08:00] <ratrace> shtrb: perhaps you're referring to upstream's (RH) desire to, generally, in the future, replace PA with Pipewire. no such change has been discussed in debian, and from what I'm following, no other distro either, except Fedora
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• 999[13:08:43] <shtrb> *with pipewire
• 1000[13:08:49] <shtrb> yes exactly that package
• 1001[13:09:13] <shtrb> I probably mixed something up
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• 1008[13:21:25] <Celmor[m]> does debian not keel logs across reboots by default? I've tried "journalctl -u ssh -b -1" and it says "Specifying boot ID or boot offset has no effect, no persistent journal was found."
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• 1011[13:23:24] <Celmor[m]> seems like I was missing the /var/log/journal dir
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• 1021[13:43:17] <freem> ratrace: no, I have not yet tried using it
• 1022[13:43:22] <freem> (elogind)
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• 1039[14:01:36] <dk657> jmcnaught: thanks for your suggestions yesterday. worked beautifully
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• 1042[14:08:40] <ratrace> freem: then you manually solved the permissions into /dev ?
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• 1048[14:13:38] <freem> which permission?
• 1049[14:14:18] <freem> ratrace: do you mean adding needs_root_rights=yes into /etc/X11/Xwrapper.config ?
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• 1054[14:18:52] <ratrace> freem: no. I mean your user needs permission to access /dev/input items, audio device(s) and gpu/drm devices
• 1055[14:19:14] <freem> oh, taht. `usermod -aG input foo`
• 1056[14:19:18] <ratrace> all those are owned by root and assorted groups (input, audio, video)
• 1057[14:20:03] <ratrace> freem: right, so manually... assuming you understand the security implications of that.
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• 1059[14:20:15] <freem> yep
• 1060[14:21:23] <freem> I mean, yes, manually, but wihtout tinkering with /dev
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• 1063[14:22:29] <freem> as for the security implications, I won't claim I understand all
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• 1066[14:23:19] <freem> except that any user in of those those group can access stuff of that group, ofc
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• 1073[14:25:11] <shtrb> Can anyone suggest AR (Augmented Reality) projects or tools preferably with packages debian I could play and learn with ?
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• 1076[14:25:55] <shtrb> I'm talking about built stuff (not SDKs )
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• 1127[15:14:44] <eoli3n> Hi
• 1128[15:14:48] <eoli3n> does debian support cloud-config ?
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• 1132[15:24:06] <apollo13> eoli3n: yes you can install cloud-init in debian if that's what you are asking
• 1133[15:24:16] <apollo13> there are also cloudimages with it (and other stuff) preinstalled
• 1134[15:24:40] <eoli3n> nop
• 1135[15:24:46] <eoli3n> i'm asking if its embeed in iso
• 1136[15:25:08] <apollo13> which iso?
• 1137[15:25:15] <eoli3n> any
• 1138[15:25:26] <apollo13> the isos are for installation
• 1139[15:25:32] <apollo13> why would you need that in an install iso?
• 1140[15:25:41] <eoli3n> to use it as autoinstaller
• 1141[15:25:54] <eoli3n> like replaced-url
• 1142[15:25:59] <apollo13> then you'd use debian-installer, no?
• 1143[15:26:15] <eoli3n> so debian-installer doesn't support cloud-config ?
• 1144[15:26:25] <eoli3n> as subiquity does for ubuntu ?
• 1145[15:26:39] <apollo13> well you are mixing up things imo
• 1146[15:26:51] <apollo13> subiquity is a glorified image copier afaik
• 1147[15:27:00] <eoli3n> subiquity is the new ubuntu installer
• 1148[15:27:06] <eoli3n> since ubuntu server 20.04
• 1149[15:27:23] <apollo13> I know, but it's "installation" routine is basically copying a disk image to the target afaik
• 1150[15:27:24] <eoli3n> it support cloud-init with cloud-config as autoinstaller
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• 1152[15:27:35] <eoli3n> -> replaced-url
• 1153[15:28:14] <mambang> trying use matrix joining debian channel but get kicked
• 1154[15:28:14] <apollo13> yes, I read that, but it doesn't provide any useful information on what it actually does
• 1155[15:28:19] <mambang> You were kicked from #debian by @appservice-irc:matrix.org
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• 1157[15:28:25] <apollo13> is that cloud-init stuff executed after reboot?
• 1158[15:28:34] <eoli3n> nop, that's cloud-init
• 1159[15:28:44] <eoli3n> subiquity added an extra layer
• 1160[15:28:47] <eoli3n> cloud-config
• 1161[15:29:06] <eoli3n> as i understood that
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• 1163[15:29:23] <apollo13> eoli3n: if that is the case, then no I do not think the debian installer supports that
• 1164[15:29:29] <eoli3n> ok
• 1165[15:29:30] <apollo13> you'd have to use preseed files I think
• 1166[15:29:31] <eoli3n> thanks
• 1167[15:29:48] <apollo13> then again depending on where you deploy to there would be better ways
• 1168[15:29:50] <eoli3n> and does it support cloud-init without that custom autoinstaller layer ?
• 1169[15:30:03] <apollo13> yes
• 1170[15:30:08] <apollo13> that's what I do
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• 1172[15:30:27] <eoli3n> so you boot live the system and it autoconfigure at startup right ?
• 1173[15:30:38] <eoli3n> how to provide cloud-init file to the live iso ?
• 1174[15:30:45] <apollo13> I do not even use an iso
• 1175[15:30:51] <eoli3n> so what do you boot ?
• 1176[15:30:55] <apollo13> I use full disk images
• 1177[15:31:00] <eoli3n> ok
• 1178[15:31:02] <apollo13> there is no installation step per se
• 1179[15:31:03] <eoli3n> why not
• 1180[15:31:14] <apollo13> ie like all the clouds do ;)
• 1181[15:31:17] <eoli3n> but in case of reboot, you wait a lot
• 1182[15:31:21] <apollo13> why?
• 1183[15:31:28] <apollo13> (and no I do not)
• 1184[15:31:30] <eoli3n> because all packages are reinstalled etc
• 1185[15:31:34] <apollo13> no they are not
• 1186[15:31:37] <eoli3n> hm
• 1187[15:31:41] <eoli3n> i don't get something
• 1188[15:31:41] <apollo13> most if not all is just on first boot
• 1189[15:31:53] <eoli3n> oh ok
• 1190[15:32:09] <eoli3n> but where did you get that first full disk image ?
• 1191[15:32:23] <apollo13> replaced-url
• 1192[15:32:31] <eoli3n> nice
• 1193[15:32:33] <apollo13> those are the debian provided ones
• 1194[15:32:40] <apollo13> I use my own one
• 1195[15:32:56] <apollo13> which are installed via hashicorps packer, then exported and sanitized
• 1196[15:33:01] <eoli3n> hm
• 1197[15:33:11] <apollo13> but the cloud images are fine for most usecases
• 1198[15:33:19] <eoli3n> i use nutanix which support adding "custom script" when provisionning a vm
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• 1200[15:33:29] <eoli3n> but i don't know how to give thoses full disk images to nutanix
• 1201[15:33:31] <eoli3n> as base
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• 1203[15:33:38] <apollo13> but I already do prebuild the images with extra software so I can even skip the installation of software
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• 1205[15:34:30] <apollo13> neither do I (haven't heard of nutanix ever), but every serious cloud provider usually allows you to upload your own images + cloud-config
• 1206[15:34:37] <apollo13> s/cloud-config/cloud-init/
• 1207[15:34:43] <bauen1> i'm also trying to use preseed (images generated by simple-cdd) but i can't seem to figure out why i'm still getting asked to select a locale even if i specify `locale=en_US.UTF-8` on the cmdline
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• 1209[15:35:16] <Tigryss> Hi guys i got some issue with my linux display (black screen no login text just cursor blinking), but I can login via SSH.
• 1210[15:35:26] <eoli3n> apollo13 i don't use any cloud provider, everything are on premise here
• 1211[15:35:53] <Tigryss> i installed nvidia driver
• 1212[15:36:02] <apollo13> eoli3n: ok, but stuff like proxmox, vmware, etc all allow you to use diskimages directly (often via OVA)
• 1213[15:36:11] <eoli3n> nutanix does too
• 1214[15:36:15] <eoli3n> i just need to figure it out
• 1215[15:36:17] <eoli3n> thanks ;)
• 1216[15:36:48] <apollo13> bauen1: try without .UTF-8 to double check
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• 1218[15:37:44] <apollo13> bauen1: mhm, actually it should work I think. Can you access some logs, also double check that the parameter is actually seen from within the system
• 1219[15:38:00] <Tigryss> Hi guys i got some issue with my linux display (black screen no login text just cursor blinking), but I can login via SSH. Its's after I installed nvidia and cuda
• 1220[15:38:02] <Tigryss> replaced-url
• 1221[15:38:14] <bauen1> apollo13: yes, would a screenshot be enough ?
• 1222[15:38:31] <apollo13> eoli3n: but imo the way to go is: figure out which hosting platform you are on and what it supports; then choose automatization accordingly
• 1223[15:38:50] <apollo13> bauen1: dunno, depends on what you screenshot :þ
• 1224[15:38:57] <bauen1> the most relevant line is probably: `localechoosr: info: debian-installer/locale preseeded to 'C' (seen: true)`
• 1225[15:38:59] <apollo13> in the worst case you can still just pxe boot and similar
• 1226[15:40:00] <apollo13> bauen1: is locale=xxx visible in /proc/cmdline?
• 1227[15:40:04] <bauen1> apollo13: yes
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• 1229[15:40:05] <apollo13> not that you failed to properly pass it in
• 1230[15:40:15] <bauen1> apollo13: can you recommend a place to upload the screenshot ?
• 1231[15:40:31] <apollo13> mhm, dunno then; I'd try setting it in the pressed file itself to see if that takes any affect
• 1232[15:40:51] <bauen1> apollo13: the preseed file is only loaded after the cd is setup
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• 1234[15:41:39] <bauen1> apollo13: replaced-url
• 1235[15:42:05] <bauen1> actually maybe priority=low is messing with things, let me double check that
• 1236[15:42:25] <apollo13> bauen1: "To specify the locale as a boot parameter, use locale=en_US. " from replaced-url
• 1237[15:42:30] <apollo13> maybe it is literally just locale?
• 1238[15:42:38] <apollo13> granted stretch docs might be somewhat old, but…
• 1239[15:42:55] <bauen1> apollo13: locale is an alias for debian-installer/locale but i will try that too
• 1240[15:43:05] <apollo13> if you look at replaced-url
• 1241[15:43:16] <apollo13> they do:append preseed/file=/hd-media/preseed.cfg locale=en_US.UTF-8 keymap=us language=us country=US vga=788 initrd=initrd.gz --
• 1242[15:43:18] <bauen1> oh it is, priority=low messes things up
• 1243[15:44:19] <bauen1> but i'm not really sure why, even then i want to be asked about anything not specified by the preseed
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• 1250[15:49:13] <TigerSc0utLinux> Hello, I cant connect a second screen to my laptop can anyone assist
• 1251[15:49:17] <TigerSc0utLinux> ?
• 1252[15:49:37] <nkuttler> TigerSc0utLinux: what's the problem?
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• 1257[15:50:56] <TigerSc0utLinux> nkuttler: its not being recognised
• 1258[15:51:01] <bauen1> apollo13: anyway, thanks for the help
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• 1260[15:51:45] <TigerSc0utLinux> nkuttler: it was always working before but I tried to install display link - which i had to deinstall again .. but now direct hdmi connection doesnt bring any results
• 1261[15:51:49] <eoli3n> apollo13 where is the doc about debian cloud images ?
• 1262[15:51:57] <apollo13> eoli3n: no idea
• 1263[15:52:01] <eoli3n> replaced-url
• 1264[15:52:03] <eoli3n> this is empty
• 1265[15:52:22] <apollo13> eoli3n: empty? I see text there
• 1266[15:52:42] <eoli3n> apollo13 "empty". if i install a "template" VM from iso, then install cloud-init package
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• 1268[15:52:50] <eoli3n> if i clone that VM and provide a cloud-init file
• 1269[15:52:59] <eoli3n> will it overwrite the whole config ?
• 1270[15:53:10] <eoli3n> like network and everythings i declare ?
• 1271[15:53:30] <apollo13> dunno, I sanitize the VM before cloning it
• 1272[15:53:38] <eoli3n> how
• 1273[15:53:57] <apollo13> among others
• 1274[15:53:58] <apollo13> virt-sysprep
• 1275[15:54:09] <jelly> ,i virt-sysprep
• 1276[15:54:10] <judd> No package named 'virt-sysprep' was found in buster/amd64.
• 1277[15:54:21] <jelly> judd: file bin/virt-sysprep
• 1278[15:54:24] <eoli3n> apollo13 please give some others too :)
• 1279[15:54:25] <judd> Search for bin/virt-sysprep in buster/amd64: libguestfs-tools: usr/bin/virt-sysprep
• 1280[15:54:55] <apollo13> eoli3n: the rest is some extra scripts which are executed by virt-sysprep
• 1281[15:55:10] <apollo13> custom scripts for my installation, they won't be that useful for you
• 1282[15:55:39] <eoli3n> thanks
• 1283[15:56:01] <apollo13> guestfish is also nice to play around in a vm
• 1284[15:56:38] <eoli3n> (y)
• 1285[15:57:13] <TigerSc0utLinux> is there a command to auto configure xorg for intel ?
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• 1287[15:57:32] <greycat> Just install the firmware.
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• 1290[15:57:54] <greycat> ,info firmware-misc-nonfree
• 1291[15:57:56] <judd> Package firmware-misc-nonfree (non-free/kernel, optional) in buster/amd64: Binary firmware for various drivers in the Linux kernel. Version: 20190114-2; Size: 3260.0k; Installed: 11716k; Homepage: replaced-url
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• 1293[15:58:49] <TigerSc0utLinux> hmpf I need to reconfigure it though I think (external displays) no longer recognised
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• 1298[15:59:47] <greycat> Auto configuration is done by NOT having any config files and NOT running any specific commands. If you feel that the auto configuration is not right, and if you HAVE THE FIRMWARE!!!!, then your only recourse would be to start writing xorg.conf(.d) snippets.
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• 1303[16:00:41] <TigerSc0utLinux> greycat: it was all working fine until i tried to install display link - i fear this may have fucked things up : and I need to reconfigure / re-install
• 1304[16:01:54] <zumba_addict> We recently made an update to our internal package registry to redirect http to https. The repo file in our debian points to http. Will apt-get automatically follow https when it redirects it?
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• 1308[16:03:23] <jelly> TigerSc0utLinux: do you have any files in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ or the /etc/X11/xorg.conf file itself?
• 1309[16:04:05] <jelly> if you do, move them away, reboot, see if that changes anything
• 1310[16:04:45] <TigerSc0utLinux> jelly: i have a display link file
• 1311[16:04:55] <jelly> zumba_addict: depends on how old that apt version is, and on Debian 9 and older, whether apt-transport-https is installed
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• 1313[16:05:45] <zumba_addict> gotcha, cool! That will help us with troubleshooting
• 1314[16:05:52] <TigerSc0utLinux> i removed it
• 1315[16:05:55] <TigerSc0utLinux> i will reboot
• 1316[16:06:03] <jelly> zumba_addict: I _think_ redirections started working around Debian 7 or 8, but I'm not sure about http -> https
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• 1321[16:11:19] <TigerSc0utLinux> hello it's still not recognising any external monintor
• 1322[16:11:29] <zumba_addict> jelly, will apt-transport-https help in redirecting to https?
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• 1325[16:12:18] <jelly> TigerSc0utLinux: pastebin the output of "xrandr"
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• 1327[16:12:26] <jelly> while gui is running
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• 1329[16:12:39] <jelly> zumba_addict: it will help in https working AT ALL
• 1330[16:12:53] <zumba_addict> cool
• 1331[16:13:01] <jelly> I don't know whether redirection is going to work
• 1332[16:13:24] <jelly> zumba_addict: which debian releases are you targeting?
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• 1335[16:14:27] <TigerSc0utLinux> jelly: replaced-url
• 1336[16:15:01] <Tigryss> Hi guys i got some issue with my linux display (black screen no login text just cursor blinking), but I can login via SSH. Its's after I installed nvidia and cuda
• 1337[16:15:04] <Tigryss> replaced-url
• 1338[16:15:24] <Tigryss> so there is no keyboard and screen
• 1339[16:15:34] <Tigryss> can someone help me please?
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• 1341[16:15:49] <quadrathoch2> !kali
• 1342[16:15:49] <dpkg> Kali Linux replaced-url
• 1343[16:16:10] <TigerSc0utLinux> Tigryss: any reaction when you click ctrl+ alt+ F2
• 1344[16:16:16] <Tigryss> no
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• 1346[16:16:32] <Tigryss> I tried all F2-6
• 1347[16:17:07] <Tigryss> but SSH working fine
• 1348[16:17:53] <Tigryss> systemd[1]: Started Getty on tty2.
• 1349[16:18:08] <jelly> TigerSc0utLinux: right, no other screen is detected on any output
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• 1356[16:22:06] <zumba_addict> jelly, apt-transport-https was already installed. Not sure why apt-get was still failing
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• 1360[16:24:25] <zumba_addict> can apt-get be made verbose?
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• 1362[16:25:23] <jelly> zumba_addict: which debian release is this?
• 1363[16:25:47] <zumba_addict> still waiting for the dev's response about that
• 1364[16:25:56] <greycat> ...
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• 1367[16:26:17] <greycat> you are trying to get support for a box you can't even log in to?
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• 1377[16:33:13] <TigerSc0utLinux|> hey sorry interenet dropped
• 1378[16:33:28] <TigerSc0utLinux|> jelly: did you respond im sorry if i missed it
• 1379[16:34:09] <greycat> 10:18 jelly> TigerSc0utLinux: right, no other screen is detected on any output
• 1380[16:34:15] <jelly> TigerSc0utLinux|: not anything important, just noticed that no monitor is detected on any of the four output ports
• 1381[16:34:39] <TigerSc0utLinux|> jelly: indeed any idea what i could try
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• 1383[16:36:40] <zumba_addict> jelly, found out it wasn't Debian server. It's running Ubuntu that was trying to download a package from debian site. Developer said it got stuck here for a long time - replaced-url
• 1384[16:38:00] <jelly> zumba_addict: don't mix distros and releases, that will prevent lots of problems including probably this one
• 1385[16:38:52] <TigerSc0utLinux|> jelly: i just tried q dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg and will now reboot
• 1386[16:39:10] <jelly> TigerSc0utLinux|: I don't think that does a whole lot these days
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• 1391[16:43:07] <basenode> hey guys, having a bit of trouble stuck in a login loop, any idea how to resolve this?
• 1392[16:43:29] <basenode> (creating a new user account and login in works totally fine, it's just with this particular user)
• 1393[16:43:42] <basenode> (also tried moving .local, .cache, .config but that didn't resolve it)
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• 1397[16:46:45] <TigerSc0utLinux> jelly: still no luck any ideas what i could try ?
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• 1399[16:51:03] <zumba_addict> gotcha
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• 1419[17:05:26] <TigerSc0utLinux> anyone here who can assist with my monitor problem ? - its not being recognised
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• 1423[17:08:51] <gnat_x> TigerSc0utLinux: what is happening? does 'xrandr -q' (more specifically 'xrandr -q|grep HDMI') give you anything?
• 1424[17:09:40] <TigerSc0utLinux> gnat_x: it just doesnt recognise any external screen anymore
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• 1426[17:09:59] <TigerSc0utLinux> xrqndr confirms both hd,i ports are disconnected
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• 1432[17:11:43] <nemo> So. After trying without success to mount an SMB share on one of the servers at work, based on coworker trying random things off of help forums, I did a "sudo apt install nfs-common"
• 1433[17:11:47] <nemo> and everything worked
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• 1435[17:12:17] <nemo> I'm now wondering what exactly that did, since it seems to have started several services... idmapd, statd, rpcbind
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• 1439[17:13:38] <gnat_x> TigerSc0utLinux: and the kernel can still see your video card (lscpi|grep VGA)?
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• 1441[17:15:03] <TigerSc0utLinux> gnat_x: VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation UHD Graphics 620 [8086:5917] (rev 07)
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• 1444[17:17:41] <greycat> nfs-common has nothing to do with Samba. It's used for NFS mounts.
• 1445[17:17:51] <nemo> greycat: yeah. that's indeed kinda WTF
• 1446[17:17:57] <nemo> greycat: and yet... ☺
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• 1449[17:20:16] <gnat_x> TigerSc0utLinux: is there anything that shows up in dmesg and/or journalctl -xe when you plug/unplug monitors?
• 1450[17:21:08] <nemo> greycat: made no other changes I swear. just apt install nfs-common then sudo mount -t cifs //stupidannoyingserver/Share /mountpoint -o username=nemo,domain=local (only with real values) and before was an error -22, then after, succeeded
• 1451[17:21:12] <nemo> so weird
• 1452[17:22:32] <gnat_x> sounds haunted to me.
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• 1457[17:23:47] <TigerSc0utLinux> gnat_x: nothing at all no reaction
• 1458[17:25:16] <rgr> by modifying /etc/pam.d/common-session with user_readenv=1 both tty login to command line and gdm3 login to gnome correctly uses ~/.pam_environment to set my PATH. it does NOT work for GDM3 login to Default X Session which in turn runs ~/.xsession. I really need this working.
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• 1462[17:28:34] <gnat_x> TigerSc0utLinux: don't mean this to offend, but the monitor is turned on right? :)
• 1463[17:29:36] <TigerSc0utLinux> gnat_x: its cool gnat -- ive worked in IT support for years I know exactly how it can be haha
• 1464[17:29:53] <TigerSc0utLinux> yes it's turned on and i even switch between input sources so as to restart it
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• 1467[17:30:13] <TigerSc0utLinux> a message appears "there is no signal coming from your computer"
• 1468[17:30:22] <TigerSc0utLinux> you think the cable could be broken ?
• 1469[17:30:30] <jelly> TigerSc0utLinux: is this computer maybe a laptop?
• 1470[17:30:43] <TigerSc0utLinux> jelly: indeed a T480 thinkpad
• 1471[17:30:45] <jelly> is there a docking station in between?
• 1472[17:30:45] <gnat_x> TigerSc0utLinux: great. just wanted to rule that out, as i'm going through the "what would i do" chain... and i've done enough over the phone/screen support to know....
• 1473[17:31:11] <TigerSc0utLinux> :)
• 1474[17:31:53] <TigerSc0utLinux> atm im trying to install "intel-linux-graphics-installer" but not having much success and not conviced it will work
• 1475[17:32:06] <jelly> please don't use that, we have no idea what it does
• 1476[17:33:07] <jelly> TigerSc0utLinux: which version of firmware-misc-nonfree package is installed?
• 1477[17:33:13] <jelly> and which kernel is running?
• 1478[17:33:38] <TigerSc0utLinux> jelly: doesnt even have a proper lake file ok -- halting that atempt
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• 1482[17:36:03] <TigerSc0utLinux> firmware-misc-nonfree/stable,now 20190114-2 all / 4.19.0-12-amd64
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• 1484[17:37:00] <jelly> both standard buster versions, ought to match
• 1485[17:37:54] <jelly> TigerSc0utLinux: does T480 have a removable battery? Can you power off, unplug the battery, plug it all back, connect the hdmi and power on with hdmi plugged in
• 1486[17:38:15] *** Quits: akp55 (~akp55@replaced-ip) (Disconnected by services)
• 1487[17:38:16] <jelly> won't do much if it's a model with two batteries...
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• 1489[17:38:58] <TigerSc0utLinux> jelly: it is the model with dual batteris lol
• 1490[17:39:12] <TigerSc0utLinux> one of the reaons why i chose it
• 1491[17:39:35] *** Quits: Grldfrdom_ (A099@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 1492[17:39:44] <TigerSc0utLinux> jelly: still want me to truy ?
• 1493[17:39:52] <jelly> nothing to lose
• 1494[17:39:57] <TigerSc0utLinux> ok brb
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• 1506[17:47:01] <rgr> to make things more confusing, tty login respects .pam_environment but not /etc/profile.d whereas x session gdm2 login does respect /etc/profile.d Gah. My head hurts.
• 1507[17:47:11] <rgr> gdm3 not 2
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• 1513[17:48:53] <greycat> A shell login on a terminal *should* read /etc/profile which should in turn read the eligible files in /etc/profile.d/ assuming your shell is bash or another Bourne-type.
• 1514[17:48:54] <jhutchins> I once went on a $300 service call that turned out to be an unplugged monitor.
• 1515[17:49:12] <jhutchins> Sorry, lost in the SB again.
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• 1519[17:51:52] <gnat_x> jhutchins: i have had similar experiences, which is why i asked.
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• 1530[17:57:42] <TigerSc0utLinux> hello again im back
• 1531[17:57:57] <jelly> hi
• 1532[17:58:00] <TigerSc0utLinux> jelly: so it turns out it's either the cable or the port of the monitor
• 1533[17:58:11] <TigerSc0utLinux> =i just tried on a different screen and it worked directly
• 1534[17:58:18] <jelly> phew
• 1535[17:58:18] *** Joins: dabbott (~David@replaced-ip)
• 1536[17:58:25] <TigerSc0utLinux> yeah was very strange
• 1537[17:58:44] <greycat> it definitely sounded like a hardware issue to me, but I am not too familiar with laptops
• 1538[17:58:48] <gnat_x> fingers crossed it's the cable.
• 1539[17:58:51] <TigerSc0utLinux> but i tried same monitor on a windows laptop and no reaction as well .. plus the emptyness of the dmesage was very strange
• 1540[17:59:23] <jelly> that machine ought to be able to do DisplayPort over USB-C AltDP function
• 1541[17:59:26] <gnat_x> yeah, usually the kernel will at least see something happened, even if the next step is broken.
• 1542[18:00:19] <TigerSc0utLinux> jelly: yes indeed ! but currently dont have those cables / adapaters
• 1543[18:01:06] <jelly> TigerSc0utLinux: if you have a 4K monitor, HDMI will only do 4k30 but DP will go up to 4k60
• 1544[18:01:27] *** Quits: TheCreeper (~TheCreepe@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 1545[18:01:39] <TigerSc0utLinux> jelly: naaa its all old stuff here :D no 4K stuff yet haha
• 1546[18:01:52] <TigerSc0utLinux> thanks so much to all of you for your help :)
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• 1552[18:09:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1186
• 1553[18:09:39] *** Joins: Rob_Jones (05478430@replaced-ip)
• 1554[18:09:50] <Rob_Jones> can someone help me with something, i can sftp via cli but not filezilla
• 1555[18:10:10] <Rob_Jones> can anyone think of anything that may help me?
• 1556[18:10:25] *** Quits: Helloshitty (~androirc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 1557[18:10:30] <gnat_x> what error does FileZilla give?
• 1558[18:11:33] <Rob_Jones> replaced-url
• 1559[18:12:33] *** Quits: mi11k1 (uid419178@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
• 1560[18:12:47] <Rob_Jones> i figured it out
• 1561[18:12:53] <Rob_Jones> but im not sure how to improve it
• 1562[18:12:56] <gnat_x> Rob_Jones: are you challenged for a password (either on cli or filezilla)?
• 1563[18:13:06] <Rob_Jones> yes gnat both
• 1564[18:13:12] <Rob_Jones> and the issue was cli wouldn't timeout
• 1565[18:13:14] <gnat_x> what was it?
• 1566[18:13:22] <Rob_Jones> filezilla had a built in timeout after 20 seconds
• 1567[18:13:36] <gnat_x> so the command line wasn't working, and also not failing?
• 1568[18:13:54] <Rob_Jones> cli was working its just my ssh takes longer than 20 seconds to make the connection
• 1569[18:14:04] <Rob_Jones> now sure how i can speed that up
• 1570[18:14:47] <gnat_x> i'm guessing that has a least something to do with how ssh is set up on the server.
• 1571[18:15:15] <Rob_Jones> its just default openssh
• 1572[18:15:34] <Rob_Jones> but i have ufw allowing port 22 from specific ip addresses
• 1573[18:15:46] <Rob_Jones> not sure if thats the issue
• 1574[18:15:52] *** Joins: xgfvc (~xgfvc@replaced-ip)
• 1575[18:16:19] <Rob_Jones> would it be better to make ftp an option or is sftp always best?
• 1576[18:17:05] <gnat_x> Rob_Jones: don't enable ftp if you can avoid it. (unless you're doing it for public/non-secure downloads)
• 1577[18:17:40] <Rob_Jones> i need to try to speed up my sftp now then not sure how but im sure google might
• 1578[18:19:12] <gnat_x> Rob_Jones: well, there are a lot of possible bottlenecks with sftp. some of them can be fine tuned, some of them are harder.
• 1579[18:19:30] <Rob_Jones> does keyfile over password increase speed?
• 1580[18:19:45] <another> no
• 1581[18:19:46] <Rob_Jones> or should it not make alot of difference
• 1582[18:20:15] *** Joins: dethos (~dethos@replaced-ip)
• 1583[18:20:19] <gnat_x> using keys speeds up authentication and makes things more secure, but it won't affect the throughput of files themselves.
• 1584[18:21:05] <gnat_x> or could speed up authentication depending on your settings, but authentication with ssh has never been a thing i've thought to speed up.
• 1585[18:21:13] <Rob_Jones> its the authentication thats slow currently
• 1586[18:21:43] <gnat_x> maybe set a lower timeout in the sshd settings?
• 1587[18:22:36] <Rob_Jones> the timeout settings are from filezilla but i mean if i am doing this for people to host on my server i dont want to be guiding them to filezilla settings too
• 1588[18:22:41] <greycat> Rob_Jones: ssh taking > 20 seconds to connect sounds like a DNS timeout to me
• 1589[18:22:43] <jelly> a typical ssh server has a 60 second timeout, 20s seems an arbitrary short time on the client's part
• 1590[18:23:05] <jelly> that's after connection, auth timeout
• 1591[18:23:29] <Rob_Jones> ive just tested password authentication vs keyfile
• 1592[18:23:37] <Rob_Jones> password = 21-22 seconds
• 1593[18:23:43] <Rob_Jones> keyfile = 1-2 seconds
• 1594[18:23:52] <gnat_x> Rob_Jones: you could also find some information with `ssh -vvvv user@host`
• 1595[18:23:55] *** Quits: nksegos (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 1596[18:24:07] <Rob_Jones> the account is sftp only
• 1597[18:24:15] <jelly> Rob_Jones: your server might have some PAM password verification issues
• 1598[18:24:27] *** Quits: TigerSc0utLinux (~kvirc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 1599[18:25:08] <jelly> Rob_Jones: report that difference to server admin/owner, they might want to investigate
• 1600[18:25:56] *** Quits: Haohmaru (~Haohmaru@replaced-ip) ()
• 1601[18:26:50] *** Quits: shifty (~shifty~~~@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 1602[18:27:01] <Rob_Jones> in this came i am the server admin
• 1603[18:27:10] <Rob_Jones> server admin in learning :P
• 1604[18:27:40] <Rob_Jones> will ask in #ssh cheers for helping guys :)
• 1605[18:27:46] <greycat> #openssh
• 1606[18:27:48] *** Quits: beelzebuzz (~rasputin@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1607[18:27:53] *** Joins: bolovanos (~bolovanos@replaced-ip)
• 1608[18:28:12] <apollo13> Increase log level on the server, but DNS sounds like a good tip, even though it is weird that it would make a diff for pwd vs keyfile
• 1609[18:28:35] <another> my money was on v6 not working
• 1610[18:28:42] *** Joins: r3 (~r3@replaced-ip)
• 1611[18:28:57] <Rob_Jones> what do you mean DNS?
• 1612[18:29:08] <apollo13> reverse lookup of the IP taking long to time out
• 1613[18:29:09] *** Joins: beelzebuzz (~rasputin@replaced-ip)
• 1614[18:29:13] <Rob_Jones> wait you gave me an idea!
• 1615[18:29:24] <greycat> The server may be trying to look up the cleent's IP address, and if that times out, you can see a delay.
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• 1618[18:29:56] <Rob_Jones> you were spot on apollo
• 1619[18:30:07] *** Joins: Brigo (~Brigo@replaced-ip)
• 1620[18:30:10] <Rob_Jones> the keyfile had the numeric ip address saved
• 1621[18:31:04] <Rob_Jones> but the password was attempting to connect to a domain name
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• 1623[18:31:18] *** Quits: darunesh (~darunesh@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1624[18:31:21] <Rob_Jones> still pointing to the same server
• 1625[18:31:53] <Rob_Jones> but i guess that additional step of trying to see where the domain name was pointing to was causing additional processing time
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• 1630[18:32:29] *** Quits: seanrobert (~seanrober@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 1631[18:32:30] <Rob_Jones> one more question then
• 1632[18:32:43] <Rob_Jones> is it possible to stop shell scripts executing in a certain directory
• 1633[18:33:06] <greycat> Mount it with "noexec", but that will stop all programs, not just scripts.
• 1634[18:33:26] <jelly> it's trivial to work around however
• 1635[18:33:45] <greycat> And I'm taking a specific interpretation of "executing in".
• 1636[18:34:27] <jelly> I wondered if it meant "scripts stored in dir" or "scripts started with cwd set to dir"
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• 1639[18:34:44] <greycat> I'm guessing the first one.
• 1640[18:34:50] *** Joins: arahael1 (~arahael@replaced-ip)
• 1641[18:35:02] <greycat> I figure it's over 90% probability.
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• 1652[18:42:31] <jelly> I wonder if you can bind mount a directory onto itself with noexec
• 1653[18:42:32] <jelly> sudo mount -o bind,noexec /home/jelly/bin /home/jelly/bin
• 1654[18:42:37] <jelly> well that worked
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• 1658[18:43:54] <jelly> ./bin/msgdump work/daily-tickets/ITISS-10590/Undeliverable\ test.msg
• 1659[18:43:54] <jelly> zsh: permission denied: ./bin/msgdump
• 1660[18:44:45] <jelly> Rob_Jones: is that what you asked for
• 1661[18:46:46] <gnat_x> that's interesting
• 1662[18:47:05] <gnat_x> learn something every day...
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• 1674[18:54:05] <nkuttler> ,v torbrowser-launcher
• 1675[18:54:06] <judd> Package: torbrowser-launcher on amd64 -- jessie/contrib: 0.1.9-1+deb8u3; stretch-backports-sloppy/contrib: 0.3.2-10~bpo9+1; buster-backports/contrib: 0.3.2-14~bpo10+1; bullseye/contrib: 0.3.3-2; sid/contrib: 0.3.3-2
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• 1681[19:01:47] <Zorbabel> #flood
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• 1684[19:03:07] <jmcnaught> Zorbabel: hello, that message you get when joining about #flood is outdated. If you have something more than a couple of lines to share, please use replaced-url
• 1685[19:03:19] <jelly> Zorbabel: sorry, not many people from there really hang out in #flood any more
• 1686[19:03:25] <jelly> from here*
• 1687[19:03:35] *** Parts: jelly (jelly@replaced-ip) ()
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• 1691[19:04:41] <ratrace> whatcha doin' jels
• 1692[19:04:57] <jelly> cursing hexchat and or znc
• 1693[19:05:03] <ratrace> oof.
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• 1698[19:07:46] <TTT> hi, I'm running Debian/Sid on a 64 bit system, kernel and everything are 64 bit. I'm trying to remove some i386 stuff, and it warns me that this will result in removal of libc6:i386 which is potentially harmful. Now given that I'm not really using the 32 bit system, is it really harmful?
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• 1703[19:10:02] <jelly> TTT: it's saying that because libc6 is an Essential: yes package. If you plan to remove i386 foreign architecture after wiping all the packages, it should be fine
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• 1707[19:14:52] <ChmEarl> a new install of Ubuntu Focal will have i386 foreign as default... caught me off-guard
• 1708[19:17:55] <jelly> ChmEarl: this is not new, it's been that way since multiarch, so, debian 7
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• 1712[19:18:33] <jelly> ok, there were native packages with 32bit libs until uh... debian 9
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• 1724[19:23:39] <TTT> jelly, ok, thanks. That Sid has been an ongoing upgrade effort for years, lots of old cruft in it. I'll do backups and then try to remove it
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• 1728[19:25:50] <jelly> also,
• 1729[19:25:52] <jelly> !debian-next
• 1730[19:25:53] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
• 1731[19:26:12] <jelly> TTT: this channel on freenode mostly deals with stable or older these days
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• 1775[20:09:55] <ecdhe> I'm following instructions at replaced-url
• 1776[20:10:28] <ecdhe> I was having trouble getting the kernel to build in a docker container, so I downloaded the lastest ISO in a full VM.
• 1777[20:11:05] <ecdhe> I'm getting the same error in both environments (that's good!)
• 1778[20:13:12] <ecdhe> Per the instructions, I'm installing and unpacking linux-source-4.19, copying in the /boot/config-$(uname -r) and running `make deb-pkg'
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• 1784[20:16:45] <ecdhe> The root issue was that CONFIG_SYSTEM_TRUSTED_KEY and CONFIG_MODULE_SIG_KEY were set in .config and causing the build process to look for a non-existent .pem file that would be present on an official debian build machine.
• 1785[20:17:55] <ecdhe> Is there a more comprehensive guide on building kernels for debian that doesn't leave any steps?
• 1786[20:18:04] <ecdhe> *exclude any steps?
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• 1796[20:28:09] <ecdhe> Might have my answer, found this: replaced-url
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• 1820[20:53:12] <greycat> Debian 9 amd64. What could cause tightvnc server to suddenly stop working, by which I mean the /tmp/.X11-unix/X1 socket becomes owned by root, and then AFTER that, after removing that socket and killing the VNC server and restarting it, all X clients fail with "can't talk to display :1" errors, until I reboot?
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• 1823[20:57:08] <nemo> I switched to tigervnc since it seemed to be better maintained
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• 1826[21:01:45] <nemo> (which is a non-answer yes, but clearly have no idea, plus am using devuan anyway which probably adds more variation)
• 1827[21:02:25] <sney> greycat: sounds vaguely like a session didn't close properly
• 1828[21:03:18] <greycat> The only concrete clue I have at this point is that the most recent time this happened (and it's happening WAY too god damned much), the /tmp/.X11-unix/X1 socket was owned by root and timestamped 18:52 Dec 2.
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• 1830[21:04:04] <greycat> But I have no idea why killing the session, removing that socket, killing all the runaway processes, clearing the log files, and waiting several moments is not sufficient to get it to work, and why rebooting *does* work.
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• 1832[21:04:37] <sney> since you're doing all that manually I'm assuming there isn't a proper service for this
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• 1842[21:22:45] <alex11> i'm trying to understand ip a syntax; for wifi NO-CARRIER means it's off, right?
• 1843[21:23:00] <alex11> it also says "UP", so... i don't know
• 1844[21:23:30] <sney> no-carrier is not associated to an AP, iirc
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• 1846[21:23:44] <gnat_x> correct.
• 1847[21:24:44] <Onyx47_> UP means that the interface is active but not necessarily connected to anything, for example on ethernet LOWER UP means it's detecting a network link as well
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• 1849[21:26:00] <alex11> i would prefer 'connected/disconnected'...
• 1850[21:26:19] <alex11> i'm a total idiot to wifi, i have no idea how to manage it on linux
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• 1852[21:26:31] <gnat_x> the problem is that "connected" is too vague.
• 1853[21:27:11] <asterismo> hi
• 1854[21:27:12] <gnat_x> alex11: unless you are trying to learn, i would use a gui tool like network-manager.
• 1855[21:27:24] <asterismo> still trying to figure out the suspend problem
• 1856[21:27:36] <asterismo> i tested 3 graphic cards, all nvidias
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• 1858[21:27:53] <asterismo> and an ATI Rage128 ultra that did not worked at all
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• 1866[21:29:44] <alex11> i have a mish-mash of internet things set up, i have stuff in /etc/network/interfaces and then i don't know whether i set anything custom up in network-manager or not
• 1867[21:29:56] <alex11> i assume it's fine and i haven't accidentally broken anything...
• 1868[21:30:12] <alex11> (yes i know they conflict i'm just detailing the loose ends i have)
• 1869[21:30:42] <Onyx47_> AFAIK /etc/network/interfaces supersedes NetworkManager
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• 1873[21:31:04] <gnat_x> alex11: yeah, you can always move your interfaces file out of the way. and Onyx47_ is right, iirc it supercedes.
• 1874[21:31:06] <alex11> well, they don't work together
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• 1876[21:31:13] <Onyx47_> either way, I personally learned enough nmcli to get by with it and just use that so I don't have stuff in different places
• 1877[21:31:33] <alex11> thankfully /etc/network/interfaces is only called via ifup et al
• 1878[21:31:37] <gnat_x> alex11: yes, use nmcli, it is the cli for network-manager.
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• 1880[21:31:42] <alex11> one day i'll untangle all that
• 1881[21:32:43] <alex11> the worst feeling is having no particular *problems*, but wondering "did i do something wrong...?"
• 1882[21:32:45] <gnat_x> alex11: just set interfaces to only have lo, comment everything else out, and restart networking with systemctl. that will pull out all of the tangle.
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• 1888[21:34:57] <Onyx47_> yeah, basically if you remove all from /etc/network/interfaces, have NetworkManager running and plug yoiur wired adapter into a network wth DHCP running, it Just Works (TM), and you can go from there, I rely on that for deployment of machines to random places where they might run the installer without network plugged in at first and it saved me so much headache
• 1889[21:35:48] <alex11> basically i just don't want unsecured wifi
• 1890[21:36:05] <alex11> so i right clicked the network-manager thing on my toolbar and unclicked enable wifi
• 1891[21:36:31] <gnat_x> you can do that with network-manager...
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• 1893[21:36:32] <cj> if you know your environment, manually configuring the interface in /etc/network/interfaces is the way to go.
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• 1897[21:37:01] <cj> in my experience at least. automagical is too magical for me in many cases
• 1898[21:37:41] <gnat_x> i configure my own interfaces file, and have a script that regenerates my wpa_supplicant config so that i only ever have one loaded... but i wrote all that when nmcli wasn't as good as it is now.
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• 1900[21:38:18] <gnat_x> but on a laptop i set up this year, i started using network-manager and for the first time ever got it to do what i wanted.
• 1901[21:38:20] <alex11> is ifup/ifdown etc a process that you can see if it's running or not?
• 1902[21:38:27] <alex11> like ps aux or systemctl
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• 1904[21:38:45] <greycat> it does not *stay* running, no.
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• 1907[21:38:55] <gnat_x> ifup will only show as running during the connection.
• 1908[21:39:23] <rwp> Use "ip" as in "ip addr show" to show the current kernel state of network interfaces.
• 1909[21:39:50] <rwp> Then ifup/ifdown keeps its own state files on disk. Which are possible to be out of sync with kernel reality.
• 1910[21:40:42] <gnat_x> and for what network-manager thinks... try `nmcli` and `nmcli connection`.
• 1911[21:40:55] <gnat_x> (if you're not going pure ifup/dow)
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• 1914[21:42:31] <gnat_x> as far as "no unsecure wifi" that is entirely up to wpa_supplicant.conf file (for ifup/down). As long as there's no connection stanza for open networks in there, wpa_supplicant will not sucessfully associate with open APs.
• 1915[21:42:36] <cj> rwp: that's true. to be certain that it's committed, you need to ifdown;ifup to ensure you've got the right config.
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• 1917[21:43:02] <cj> similar to my switches that I may have a difference between running-config and startup-config
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• 1919[21:43:24] <smashgrab> Does anyone here know if debian buster supports Intel UHD graphics 630? After installing backport kernel I am able to boot into X (previously was just black screen), but now get software rendering and so bad performance. Saw some reference to kernel option i915.alpha_support as maybe being needed (have not yet tried).
• 1920[21:43:31] <smashgrab> Any advice or anyone know for sure that good support is possible on buster with Intel UHD graphics 630? Thanks.
• 1921[21:43:40] <alex11> where is wpa_supplicant.conf? /etc?
• 1922[21:43:42] <sney> !i915 firmware
• 1923[21:43:42] <dpkg> Some Intel UHD GPUs made after 2015 require firmware from userspace for all features to be enabled. This includes Skylake, Kabylake, Broxton, Cannonlake and possibly others. Ask me about <non-free sources> and install firmware-misc-nonfree to provide.
• 1924[21:43:58] <alex11> i have: action_wpa.sh functions.sh ifupdown.sh in /etc/wpa_supplicant
• 1925[21:44:08] <gnat_x> alex11: /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
• 1926[21:44:13] <alex11> or i guess it's something you make yourself
• 1927[21:44:14] <alex11> yeah
• 1928[21:44:47] <gnat_x> right. wpa-conf /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
• 1929[21:44:57] <gnat_x> is in my interface configuration.
• 1930[21:46:07] <Onyx47_> smashgrab: not sure about the model, note that I had a case recently where I also had to pull the kernel from backports for a new Intel CPU, 4.19 wouldn't cut it, but in that case X was crashing outright
• 1931[21:46:13] <gnat_x> alex11: you populate that file with "wpa_passphrase netESSID PSKPSKPSK"
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• 1933[21:46:30] <Onyx47_> can't remember which GPU it had though off the top of my head, so firmware might be enough for you
• 1934[21:47:09] <alex11> thanks gnat_x
• 1935[21:48:10] <smashgrab> Thanks Onyx47_. In the past intel stuff just work so is a little frustrating this go round, but hoping I can eventually get debian to work.
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• 1937[21:48:34] <gnat_x> alex11: np. i take the manual route... but it has its drawbacks. Mainly connecting to new networks when i'm out and about can take more steps. but i'm not out and about as much this year.
• 1938[21:49:10] <gnat_x> i do like knowing what i'm connected to and when.
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• 1943[21:53:39] <freem> gnat_x: how do you do in hotels or other AP where you need to through some http proxy on a clear wifi?
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• 1946[21:54:27] <ndegruchy> freem: replaced-url
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• 1950[21:55:37] <gnat_x> freem: i add an open wifi network. i have script that swaps out my live wpa_supplicant file with a predefined one; and another script that doesn't the ifup/down for me...
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• 1953[21:56:27] <gnat_x> so i just tell it to use an open network...but then it gets blown away when i switch to a secured network.
• 1954[21:56:37] *** Quits: nt1036 (~nt1036@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 1955[21:56:43] <gnat_x> also, this way, i'm only ever beaconing for one network.
• 1956[21:56:50] <alex11> well there, commented out the wifi
• 1957[21:57:06] <alex11> so now network/interfaces should be at its default before i added anything
• 1958[21:59:03] <gnat_x> alex11: cool. my interfaces file ends up being simple.... auto wlp3s0; iface wlp3s0 dhcp; wpa-conf /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf
• 1959[21:59:03] <alex11> for some reason the only thing in nmcli that's connected is the virtual machine bridge thing, my ethernet is 'unmanaged'
• 1960[21:59:44] <gnat_x> yeah, if it defined in the interfaces file, it is no managed my network-manager.
• 1961[22:00:04] <alex11> oh
• 1962[22:00:05] <gnat_x> s/if it/if it is
• 1963[22:00:09] <alex11> right right
• 1964[22:00:37] <alex11> where do you read up about terminology like iface, auto, lo and so on?
• 1965[22:00:49] <sney> man 5 interfaces
• 1966[22:00:50] <freem> man interfaces
• 1967[22:01:44] <gnat_x> and bonus points for actually wanting to learn that... i waited way longer than i should have to actually understand a lot of that stuff.
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• 1980[22:17:42] <dk657> is there a Standard Way to set a default application for a filetype? e.g. i want zotero (my reference manager) to magically open the pdfs in zathura
• 1981[22:17:50] <dk657> i don't use any desktop environment
• 1982[22:18:21] <dk657> and i've always sorted this out somehow, eventually... but i never remember how
• 1983[22:18:23] <sney> probably with gio then
• 1984[22:19:05] <sney> e.g. gio mime application/pdf zathura.desktop or so
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• 1986[22:20:01] <dk657> sney: interesting, i'll give it a try. i've always tried editing ~/.config/mimeapps.list, and using the xdg-utils, but it seems like some kind of dark magic whether it sticks or not
• 1987[22:22:05] *** Quits: nksegos (Thunderbir@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 1988[22:22:07] <dk657> sney: gio is a gnome utility? i don't see how to install it standalone
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• 1991[22:22:56] <sney> it's a glib utility and packaged in libglib2.0-bin
• 1992[22:23:25] <dk657> ah beautiful, thank you
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• 1998[22:29:18] <Agiofws> hello
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• 2000[22:29:33] <sney> hi
• 2001[22:30:17] <Agiofws> does anyone know if debian installer has the s/w to connect / tether via usb cable with cell phone to get a network connection?
• 2002[22:30:46] <sney> if the adapter has linux support, it will probably work with the non-free installer.
• 2003[22:31:08] <sney> !firmware image
• 2004[22:31:08] <dpkg> There are <live> system and <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages available from replaced-url
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• 2006[22:32:04] <Onyx47_> for what it's worth, USB tether over network manager always worked painlessly for me, never tried in the installer, using a live image might be the safest bet
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• 2009[22:32:23] <sney> I've seen people here install via a tethered connection, haven't tried it myself so I'm not familiar with the details, but as long as it doesn't require any weird 3rd party utilities it should be fine
• 2010[22:32:35] <Agiofws> sney i've already installed an including firmware image and booting of it with usb a usb stick but it won't find my wifi nic
• 2011[22:32:59] <Agiofws> will the installer recognize it ?
• 2012[22:33:05] <sney> !tias
• 2013[22:33:05] <dpkg> TIAS is "Try It And See".
• 2014[22:33:20] <Agiofws> ok
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• 2022[22:43:47] <jhutchins> Agent: You'll probably want the installer with the non-free firmware.
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• 2057[23:33:28] <Zenithium> Hello! I installed steam and the amd drivers on my sid system and when I try to run it, no command is found.
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• 2059[23:37:59] <jmcnaught> Zenithium: do you have /usr/games in your $PATH?
• 2060[23:38:38] <Zenithium> jmcnaught: No, I dont't. Thanks
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