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• 40[00:18:54] <sveta3> hi
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• 42[00:19:29] <sveta3> had flat battery now laptop does not boot shows black screen no ttys either
• 43[00:19:52] <sveta3> i can enter root shell changing the dm does not help
• 44[00:20:00] <sveta3> what can i do ?
• 45[00:20:34] *** Joins: grobi (~rtng@replaced-ip)
• 46[00:20:59] <sveta3> root shell is by adding "init=/bin/sh" to grub, recovery mode itself has the same issue
• 47[00:21:02] <n4dir> not really sure, but if you don't even get a tty, then a chroot from a live CD is probably the next thing to do
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• 50[00:21:30] <n4dir> so you see grub, you hit enter, it boots but then, somewhere in the middle of the boot process: black screen?
• 51[00:21:37] <sveta3> in my shell i can read and write files and use apt
• 52[00:22:03] <n4dir> which shell?
• 53[00:22:07] <sveta3> not familiar with chroot so id rather avoid learnibg it unless it gives an advantage
• 54[00:22:10] <sveta3> sh
• 55[00:22:18] *** Quits: meLon (~meLon@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 56[00:22:28] <n4dir> no, i meant: you said: no tty, now say you got a shell.
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• 62[00:26:47] <sveta3> n4dir it boots into black screen when i choose normal or recovery mode in grub but when i edit grub line to add sh as init then the shell works ok
• 63[00:26:55] *** Quits: smidlers (~smyers@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 64[00:26:55] <watchcat> she gets a shell from grub, but no virtual consoles after trying to run x.
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• 66[00:27:47] <sveta3> recovery mode from grub is not supposed to run x i dont think? yet it blackscreens also
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• 68[00:28:50] <watchcat> try nomodeset?
• 69[00:28:54] *** Quits: dreamon (~dreamon@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 70[00:29:11] <sveta3> how ?
• 71[00:29:39] <watchcat> on the boot line in grub.
• 72[00:29:41] *** Quits: Ryushin (chris@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 73[00:30:04] <sveta3> ok
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• 75[00:30:57] <watchcat> i'm thinking your gpu is gerfungled.
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• 77[00:31:22] <sveta3> that works
• 78[00:31:23] <n4dir> running a filesystemcheck won't hurt, i guess.
• 79[00:31:27] <sveta3> nomodeset works
• 80[00:31:34] <sveta3> screen res is goofed
• 81[00:31:45] <annadane> remember to not have the filesystem mounted if running fsck, though
• 82[00:31:50] <sveta3> what package do i reinstall to make it work ?
• 83[00:32:06] <sveta3> ok
• 84[00:32:32] <sveta3> what command for fsck ? can do from a live usb
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• 86[00:33:05] <annadane> probably a factoid for it...
• 87[00:33:06] <annadane> !fsck
• 88[00:33:06] <dpkg> hmm... fsck is a file system integrity checker (man 8 fsck), or a visually-similar euphemism for fuck. Ask me about <forcefsck>.
• 89[00:33:12] <annadane> thanks, not helpful
• 90[00:33:22] <sveta3> indeed not
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• 92[00:33:44] <annadane> well someone else answer, i've not had to do it
• 93[00:33:44] *** Joins: mnemonic (~semeion@replaced-ip)
• 94[00:34:05] <velix> Hmm... I wonder why the maintainer doesn't accept the patch? replaced-url
• 95[00:34:06] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 96[00:34:20] <n4dir> same here, i recall it to be very straight forwared, probably just fsck /dev/sd[whatever], but wouldn't bet
• 97[00:34:41] <n4dir> i'd just ask the mighty google.
• 98[00:34:54] <sveta3> thanks n4dir, watchcat, annadane
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• 100[00:35:20] <sveta3> ya i chat from mobile a bit hard to type i find. reading is ok
• 101[00:35:43] <n4dir> yeah, i guess so. takes me five minutes to type a simple sentence on the phone. sucks.
• 102[00:35:54] <watchcat> de nada
• 103[00:36:01] <annadane> is it /dev/sda or partitions like /dev/sda1?
• 104[00:36:13] <n4dir> annadane: pretty sure it's partitions.
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• 107[00:36:20] <annadane> yeah that makes more sense
• 108[00:36:29] <n4dir> because there is no filesyttem on sda, ... i'd guess.
• 109[00:37:11] <annadane> we're so helpful. "how do i do foo?" "dunno. ask google."
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• 111[00:37:35] <n4dir> ha ha. pretty ashamed i don't know how to fsck from the top of my head, but i hardly ever do it.
• 112[00:37:56] <sveta3> weird in live usb recovery fsck cmd is not found
• 113[00:38:07] <bl4s> hi, i would like to setup isc-dhcp-server for v6 also. as far as i can see i can either use v4 or v6. do you happen to know how can i run both? merry xmas
• 114[00:38:08] <n4dir> i for one would just run it, but telling someone else to simply try it and see ... not good.
• 115[00:38:27] *** Quits: matrim (~mats_@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 116[00:38:29] <n4dir> sveta3: as root and try to autocomplete.
• 117[00:38:50] <n4dir> wild guessing.
• 118[00:38:59] <sveta3> in fdroid would love to find mic input from voice but thats a bit offtopic here
• 119[00:39:10] <sveta3> oi
• 120[00:39:18] <sveta3> fsck.ext4
• 121[00:39:26] <watchcat> you could also try a live boot with something that has a desktop, to check your video card.
• 122[00:39:37] <sveta3> ok
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• 124[00:40:23] * annadane should not be allowed to give support, ever
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• 128[00:41:25] <sveta3> this lcd screen is flickering intermittently for a while
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• 134[00:42:08] <sveta3> fsck found two items to fix, rebooted, same issue, checking live cd with desktop now
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• 136[00:42:26] * watchcat scolds annadane for not giving theirself credit >:|
• 137[00:42:43] <n4dir> ^^ that.
• 138[00:43:14] <bites> did you already try a hard reset?
• 139[00:44:20] <watchcat> even turning it off and unplugging it for a bit can sometimes reset glitched hardware.
• 140[00:44:22] *** Joins: dreamon (~dreamon@replaced-ip)
• 141[00:44:53] <bites> hard reset on a laptop means disconnecting all power, pressing the power button for a while and waiting for a bit.
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• 143[00:45:14] <sveta3> bites what is a hard reset?
• 144[00:45:23] <sveta3> watchcat ok
• 145[00:45:33] <sveta3> bites ok
• 146[00:45:59] <sveta3> did not try, will do if live desktop fails
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• 148[00:46:49] <sveta3> you are just terrific. life changing experience
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• 150[00:48:23] <watchcat> working?
• 151[00:49:39] <simbalion> like 2 days ago I installed nvidia-driver 410 from 'sid' and now it says 390 is installed, but I haven't made any changes wth
• 152[00:49:56] <simbalion> also it says it's installed from buster
• 153[00:50:06] <simbalion> when I do apt-cache policy nvidia-driver
• 154[00:50:46] <bites> ,v nvidia-driver
• 155[00:50:47] <judd> Package: nvidia-driver on amd64 -- jessie/non-free: 340.106-1; jessie-backports/non-free: 384.130-1~bpo8+1; stretch/non-free: 384.130-1; stretch-backports/non-free: 390.87-4~bpo9+1; buster/non-free: 390.87-4; sid/non-free: 390.87-5; experimental/non-free: 410.78-2
• 156[00:50:52] <simbalion> And on top of that, it shows 390 in sid now, instead of 410, and 396 which had been available for months, has vanished
• 157[00:50:54] <bites> there is no 410 in sid.
• 158[00:50:57] *** Quits: sveta3 (~sveta3@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 159[00:50:59] <stu88> sveta3: maybe xorg settings got corrupted when you lost power suddenly. try resetting xorg settings? I don't remember the commands though
• 160[00:51:07] <simbalion> isn't sid and experimental the same thing?
• 161[00:51:11] <bites> no
• 162[00:51:18] <bites> sid is unstable.
• 163[00:51:21] <simbalion> oh, well that explains that
• 164[00:51:26] <simbalion> sorry my mistake
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• 170[00:53:23] <simbalion> buster and testing are the same right?
• 171[00:53:34] <n4dir> how to put it mildly? if you don't know the difference between the different flavors of debian, you don't want to install anything but stable.
• 172[00:54:18] <simbalion> I thought there were only 3, stable, testing, and experimental
• 173[00:54:19] <annadane> buster is CURRENT testing
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• 175[00:54:30] <simbalion> So there are actually 4?
• 176[00:54:46] <bites> experimental is not part of the usual package migration.
• 177[00:54:51] <n4dir> stable, testing and sid/unstable. experimental is an odd thing (as in: sure not a full distro)
• 178[00:55:00] <simbalion> I see
• 179[00:55:05] <annadane> there are 3 one can use as a full operating system: stable, testing, and unstable. experimental is for individual packages one should generally not use because they're in experimental to be used as a testbed
• 180[00:55:07] <n4dir> you hardly ever hear people would be using it.
• 181[00:55:08] <simbalion> Thanks for clearing that up for me
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• 183[00:55:18] <simbalion> Yeah I've only looked in experimental for the latest nvidia drivers
• 184[00:55:22] <simbalion> which seems to be safe enough to install
• 185[00:55:23] <annadane> buster is a CODE NAME for *current* testing
• 186[00:55:25] <trysten> how do I get the free percentage of a filesystem without mounting it
• 187[00:55:25] <Kobaz> every so often one of my monitors in a multi-monitor setup turns on but it's not 'linked in'... i need to run arandr and then disable the display and then enable it, and then it'll come back... any ideas?
• 188[00:55:34] <annadane> when buster releases as stable, bullseye will become new testing
• 189[00:55:41] <simbalion> I can't wait to switch to a radeon card..
• 190[00:55:43] <annadane> unstable is always "sid"
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• 192[00:55:46] <simbalion> gonna be doing that next year
• 193[00:55:52] * blackflow throws the term "oldstable" into the confusion pot, stirrs it.
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• 195[00:55:54] <simbalion> nvidia's been nothing but headaches in linux
• 196[00:56:07] <n4dir> blackflow: ha ha. good catch.
• 197[00:56:30] <sveta3> live cd of another distro works ok
• 198[00:56:42] <stu88> sveta3: maybe xorg settings got corrupted when you lost power suddenly. try resetting xorg settings? I don't remember the commands though
• 199[00:57:02] <sveta3> hmm
• 200[00:57:07] *** Quits: ytf0rd (~ytf0rd@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 201[00:57:27] <sveta3> it is a fujitsu s7220
• 202[00:57:29] <n4dir> i sure won't be able to help, sveta3 , but i guess now is a good time to mention which graphics card you use.
• 203[00:57:59] <sveta3> :)
• 204[00:58:25] <n4dir> why a sudden shutdown would screw that is completely beyond me, to be honest.
• 205[00:58:37] *** Quits: sveta3 (~sveta3@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 206[00:58:46] <stu88> n4dir: disk cache flush?
• 207[00:58:48] *** Joins: sveta3 (~sveta3@replaced-ip)
• 208[00:59:06] <sveta3> it is fujitsu lifebook S7210
• 209[00:59:07] *** Joins: \\Mr_C\\ (mrc@replaced-ip)
• 210[00:59:08] <n4dir> stu88: as said, really no clue. in general i am not in hardware. weird stuff which does stuff, by magic.
• 211[00:59:21] <sveta3> i can purge and reinstall xorg?
• 212[01:00:05] <stu88> sveta3: it's just an idea, I would try that, but it's your b*tt on the line, not mine
• 213[01:00:32] *** Quits: solarnetone (~scott@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 214[01:00:52] <n4dir> will probably remove shitloads of stuff which depends on xorg. not sure if it would help at all. apt-get remove -s xorg; would simultate and show you what will happen.
• 215[01:01:37] <n4dir> i'd give it a try in ##linux (too). here we seem to be stuck. or just wait a bit more.
• 216[01:01:48] <stu88> sveta3: try typing xorg in root shell and tab-complete, see if any commands to reconfigure/reset xorg turn up
• 217[01:02:24] <watchcat> does apt install --reinstall <package> reset package configs?
• 218[01:02:52] *** Joins: solarnetone (~scott@replaced-ip)
• 219[01:02:55] <stu88> sveta3: If you have one computer and no google access right now, I can try looking up a command to do that
• 220[01:03:39] <sveta3> one pc and one mobile, the plan is reinstall xorg and see what happens
• 221[01:04:01] <stu88> sveta3: hold it just now, I'll check out google
• 222[01:04:07] <sveta3> ok
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• 229[01:07:18] <n4dir> the web says it uses this graphical chip: Intel GMA 4500MHD
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• 233[01:09:05] <stu88> sveta3: try "sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg"...you may want to delete the old config file with with "sudo rm -f /etc/X11/xorg.conf", or move it to a backup file, before reconfiguring
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• 239[01:12:08] <sveta3> stu88 same issue i removed /etc/X11
• 240[01:12:15] *** Quits: nulltan (~nulltan@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 241[01:12:16] <sveta3> and reconfigured
• 242[01:13:15] <stu88> hmm
• 243[01:13:31] *** Quits: queenqat (~textual@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 244[01:13:35] <stu88> did you reboot?
• 245[01:13:49] <sveta3> as you remember, adding "nomodeset" makes it work
• 246[01:13:53] *** Joins: aloo_shu (~atomic@replaced-ip)
• 247[01:13:58] <sveta3> yes, i rebooted
• 248[01:15:31] <stu88> so it works now or not?
• 249[01:15:39] <sveta3> only with nomodeset
• 250[01:15:47] <sveta3> thats wiyhout graphics
• 251[01:15:51] <sveta3> without
• 252[01:16:14] <sveta3> with blurry picture
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• 255[01:17:23] <sveta3> r
• 256[01:17:28] <watchcat> you could try tasksel to reinstall your whole desktop and everything.
• 257[01:17:51] <stu88> my next suspect would be the driver, but I guess I'm not one to talk
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• 260[01:19:29] <simbalion> Can someone tell me if there are any debian packages for the 415 nvidia driver? I guess I need that one
• 261[01:20:03] <sveta3> no network in recovery mode, ifup eth0 says it can not create /var/lib/dhcp/dhclient.eth0.leases read only file system
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• 263[01:20:18] <sveta3> though / is not readonly
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• 265[01:20:51] <sveta3> if i had network i would be able to reinstall thongs
• 266[01:21:00] <sveta3> things
• 267[01:21:33] <n4dir> you could to that with a chroot. it might look intimidating, but if you just copy and paste, it is straight forward.
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• 269[01:21:41] <n4dir> !chroot
• 270[01:21:41] <dpkg> To chroot into your Debian system boot to your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2). Mount your root filesystem with "mount -t ext2 /dev/whatever /target" and make /dev, /proc and /sys usable with "mount --rbind --make-rslave /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys". You can then chroot into the system with "chroot /target".
• 271[01:22:04] <n4dir> i mean no internet and no gui sure sucks for troubleshooting.
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• 275[01:23:37] <sveta3> well ill boot into nomodeset and do the reinstalls there
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• 277[01:23:55] <sveta3> would be nice to know what package is the driver
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• 279[01:24:28] <watchcat> hm, this is where an rsync backup would have come in handy.
• 280[01:24:42] <stu88> which one is the model of your laptop? 7220 or 7210
• 281[01:24:54] <n4dir> lspci -k | grep -i -A 3 VGA will tell you (from a working live). debian wiki says that chipset should "just work"
• 282[01:25:03] <sveta3> yea i have no backups of this one
• 283[01:26:41] <sveta3> not sure which i think 7210
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• 286[01:28:26] <sveta3> reinstalling xorg offers to install a few dozens of new packages, maybe that is helpful
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• 288[01:29:07] <n4dir> not much to lose. i guess.
• 289[01:30:10] <stu88> the package may be i965-va-driver
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• 291[01:30:13] <sveta3> i915 kernel module
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• 293[01:30:57] <stu88> it seems to be the driver for the igpus in both 7220 and 7210
• 294[01:31:07] <sveta3> :)
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• 298[01:32:54] <stu88> ...but how do you reinstall stuff in a read-only filesystem?
• 299[01:33:41] <sveta3> boot with nomodeset :p
• 300[01:34:26] <sveta3> and reinstalling xorg* and the driver did not help still same issue
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• 303[01:36:04] <stu88> sveta3: are you on an SSD?
• 304[01:37:13] <sveta3> time to read logs maybe
• 305[01:37:30] <sveta3> no
• 306[01:37:38] <sveta3> sata disk
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• 308[01:38:20] <sveta3> this os should shutdown gracefully when the battery is flat -(
• 309[01:38:34] <sveta3> then no such trouble
• 310[01:38:53] <sveta3> i broke something
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• 314[01:40:10] <stu88> well I'd boot from the live cd and do as n4dir said back there... at least you'll have a browser and google, and still have access to the disk
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• 316[01:41:37] <stu88> if all else fails, unplug the disk, blow into the sata connector, and plug it back in :P
• 317[01:41:50] <stu88> worked back in the day
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• 319[01:43:03] <sveta3> i will just remove xorg and the driver and reboot - hopefully into a working tty even without nomodeset
• 320[01:43:29] <sveta3> i have disk accesd
• 321[01:43:33] <sveta3> access
• 322[01:43:58] <n4dir> yup, good idea at this point, as far it's me (not saying i would have a say in such)
• 323[01:44:39] <sveta3> yes, not a production system, so we can break it, n4dir :)
• 324[01:44:56] <n4dir> i bet it is a very minor thing.
• 325[01:45:01] <sveta3> yes
• 326[01:45:05] <n4dir> we need a wizzard !
• 327[01:45:41] <n4dir> i had dozens of such "cold shutdowns " (?) over the years, but never ran in problems after it.
• 328[01:45:54] <derlg> You're a wizard n4dir
• 329[01:45:58] <sveta3> lucky
• 330[01:46:10] <n4dir> ha ha. no, really not, and sure not when it comes to hardware.
• 331[01:50:07] <sveta3> fshdbdvdhdfsfdhd
• 332[01:50:17] <sveta3> cjrh
• 333[01:50:22] <sveta3> oopd
• 334[01:50:24] <sveta3> oops
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• 339[01:53:59] * watchcat laffs
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• 343[01:57:40] <Kobaz> every so often one of my monitors in a multi-monitor setup turns on but it's not 'linked in'... i need to run arandr and then disable the display and then enable it, and then it'll come back... any ideas?
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• 402[02:58:45] <sveta3> removing xorg* and the graphics driver did not help
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• 407[03:06:11] <annadane> merry christmas, everyone :)
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• 412[03:12:06] <indigestionsoon> murry mixmas annadane
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• 419[03:20:41] <sveta3> annadane removing xorg* and the graphics driver did not help
• 420[03:22:58] <watchcat> still no network?
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• 435[03:35:04] <sveta3> watchcat when i boot with nomodeset then the network works
• 436[03:35:33] <sveta3> removed xserver* still same issue
• 437[03:36:00] <sveta3> next guess please ? what can i remove like nomodeset does
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• 442[03:39:12] <watchcat> woah, that's just weird. can you ping google as root? sudo ping google?
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• 446[03:41:15] <watchcat> but tbh, at this point i would just back up all i wanted to keep and reinstall. i'm lazy that way.
• 447[03:42:12] <watchcat> maybe i'd try installing a new kernel first.
• 448[03:42:32] <indigestionsoon> and why not?
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• 451[03:44:08] <sveta3> watchcat without nomodeset the screen is black. with nomodeset it has ttys and/or gui and network works
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• 460[03:50:24] <watchcat> have you tried resetting your bios?
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• 470[03:57:14] <watchcat> sveta3: aside from resetting bios and reinstalling the kernel, i can't think of anything else.
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• 474[04:01:01] <sveta3> watchcat no. another distro from live cd works ok though.
• 475[04:02:07] <watchcat> sveta3: yeh, that seems to rule out bios.
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• 478[04:04:04] <sveta3> yes booting a previous kernel works i think
• 479[04:04:23] <jvava> this morning, my all computers complain Gnome Shell Integration is not compatible with the browser, I have update browser and long before I can install gnome extension on the extensions.gnome.org page.
• 480[04:04:48] <jvava> I have NOT update anything
• 481[04:05:48] <cluelessperson> Why are user namespaces becoming a thing with containers and such?
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• 484[04:09:01] <sveta3> they are ? i did not notice
• 485[04:12:27] <bites> containers don't run on hypervisors, so they require os level features for their isolation.
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• 490[04:16:37] <watchcat> sveta3: if it was just a corrupted kernel, great. after reinstalling the kernel i'd also reinstall grub just to cover all the basics. then replaced-url
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• 523[04:35:18] <awal1> Openbox window manager: how can i move the mouse pointer from monitor 1 to monitor 2 and vice versa via keyboard?
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• 525[04:37:18] <annadane> i'd maybe ask somewhere more openbox focused
• 526[04:37:35] <awal1> I don't see that an action for that in docs but wondering if someone have already created one somehow
• 527[04:38:38] <awal1> right, I forgot about #openbox but in truth that channel is almost inactive all the time....
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• 531[04:45:29] <sveta3> watchcat old kernel has no more black screen but xorg refuses to start "open /dev/dri/card0 no such file or directory" replaced-url
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• 533[04:46:13] <sveta3> it seems unaware of i915 though it is loaded
• 534[04:46:54] <indigestionsoon> maybe #puppylinux or other distros that use it, awal1
• 535[04:46:57] <sveta3> startx works but brightness is very low
• 536[04:47:27] <joepublic> not using the S-video port, I hope
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• 538[04:47:43] <pfred1> sveta3 I have one of those
• 539[04:47:55] <awal1> indigestionsoon, good idea, thanks
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• 543[04:49:07] <sveta3> joepublic i add it to kernel params couple years ago but removing it makes no difference, there is something svideo related but i did not compile anything
• 544[04:49:09] <awal1> i may just have to report a wishlist bug bcoz it loks like action no available now (to upstream, should be I guess)
• 545[04:49:18] <awal1> probably only fvwm may have it
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• 547[04:49:39] <joepublic> you have to disable s-video on some intel i915 or the kernel takes forever to boot
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• 549[04:50:29] <pfred1> I thnk my PC upstairs has an i915 in it no S-Video though it is HDMI
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• 552[04:52:24] <pfred1> yup video 17459 1 i915
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• 556[04:57:13] <sveta3> what is the best way to back up / excluding /home ?
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• 558[04:57:23] <annadane> !what to backup
• 559[04:57:24] <dpkg> Some things you should back up include: /etc /home /root /usr/local /usr/src /opt /srv. Tailor to your own purposes. If you think you don't need /var, make sure you don't forget /var/lib/dpkg /var/backups /var/lib/apt* /var/lib/mysql /var/mail /var/replaced-url
• 560[04:57:55] <annadane> or be like me and do it all based off memory, i don't like keeping too much cruft around anyway
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• 572[05:11:35] <pfred1> only backup if you can't turn around
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• 574[05:12:09] <watchcat> sveta3: replaced-url
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• 587[05:21:35] <kirillkh_> can anyone explain why this iptables rule doesn't work the way I expect it to? I expect it to allow e.g. "ping -I MY_EXTERNAL_IP 1.2.3.4", but I'm seeing "Operation not permitted". "iptables -A OUTPUT -o eth0 -m owner --gid-owner 115 ! -s 192.168.1.21 ! -d 192.168.1.0/24 -j ACCEPT"
• 588[05:22:08] <kirillkh_> (which happens because I also have REJECT rule below it)
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• 610[05:52:46] <altker128> Hey guys. Trying to load some ipv6 firewall rules on a Debian VPS. Seeing an erro abotu ip6tables-restore: unable to initialize table 'filter' . I'm guessing I'm missing some IPV6 netfilter-packages?
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• 617[05:55:50] <altker128> Nevermind, user-error. Had disabled IPV6 at boot-time on the kernel
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• 632[06:07:08] <kirillkh_> hmm, I have run into a very weird limitation of iptables. IPSec set up a second IP address for my eth0 interface. so I discovered via trial and error that the iptables simply ignores this second address as if it doesn't exist... any way to make it match on the second ip address?
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• 639[06:11:22] <altker128> kirillkh_: Can you use a tun adapter? Or, a dummy ethernet interface?
• 640[06:11:40] <iosecure> kirillkh_: Is the second IP the inside IP of the tunnel?
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• 647[06:16:57] <iosecure> altker128: IPsec doesn't use tun or dummy devices.
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• 665[06:29:00] <jim> kirillkh_: maybe you just have to add an additional rule to match on the other IP
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• 667[06:29:33] <altker128> iosecure: That is IPSec's loss then!
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• 669[06:29:52] <iosecure> altker128: Not really. You're applying the wrong concepts in the wrong places.
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• 671[06:32:04] <altker128> iosecure: It was just a joke
• 672[06:32:20] <iosecure> Humor translates poorly in text. ;)
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• 676[06:34:22] <altker128> :)
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• 712[07:05:03] <altker128> Anyone here using openvpn?
• 713[07:05:58] <altker128> I have an openvpn client connecting to server ; config, etc all solid ; ping times are reasonable from client to the openvpn server's 10.x IP ; ~10-20 ms ; ping times from the host machine, 10.0.8.1 IP to the client however have +70-100 ms consistently. Anyone ever see anything like this?
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• 734[07:27:55] <altker128> For simple commands you want to run on boot, do you go through the effort of creating a systemd unit file or just add it to rc.local?
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• 748[07:41:56] <caray> i need help to install a jessie package on a stretch machine which has no internet access.
• 749[07:42:21] <caray> im using the gdebi tool but im getting an error
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• 751[07:43:10] <caray> dependency }s not satisfiable: libglibmm-2.4
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• 753[07:43:30] <caray> ...
• 754[07:43:34] <nkuttler> altker128: cron, @reboot?
• 755[07:43:42] <caray> does anybody know what to do
• 756[07:43:43] <nkuttler> caray: well..
• 757[07:43:56] <nkuttler> caray: have you ever built a backport?
• 758[07:44:05] <caray> dont think so
• 759[07:44:17] <nkuttler> which package anyway?
• 760[07:44:22] <caray> seq24
• 761[07:44:26] <caray> i must have it
• 762[07:44:47] <nkuttler> that really has lots of dependencies..
• 763[07:44:59] <caray> their site has source code but i cant compile it cause of some pkgconfig error
• 764[07:45:13] <nkuttler> i doubt the correct gtk versions are in jessie, did you check?
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• 766[07:45:19] <nkuttler> error?
• 767[07:45:21] <caray> well its a m}di sequencer thats unique i cant get anything like it
• 768[07:45:39] <caray> no i didnt check hmm ok ikl look
• 769[07:45:40] <nkuttler> why don't you just upgrade to stretch?
• 770[07:45:47] <caray> im on stretch
• 771[07:45:52] <n4dir> did you try to copy the deb for libglimm-2.4 jessie and install it with gdebi before installing seq24?
• 772[07:45:56] <nkuttler> ,v seq24
• 773[07:45:57] <judd> Package: seq24 on amd64 -- jessie: 0.9.2-2; wheezy: 0.9.2-2; buster: 0.9.3-2; sid: 0.9.3-2
• 774[07:45:58] <caray> this package isnt for stretch
• 775[07:46:08] <nkuttler> !tell caray about ssbp
• 776[07:46:10] <caray> ill try now brb
• 777[07:46:20] <nkuttler> caray: i would try to backport the package from testing
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• 779[07:47:30] <nkuttler> ,v libgtk2.0-0
• 780[07:47:31] <judd> Package: libgtk2.0-0 on amd64 -- wheezy: 2.24.10-2; jessie: 2.24.25-3+deb8u2; stretch: 2.24.31-2; buster: 2.24.32-3; sid: 2.24.32-3
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• 782[07:49:23] <caray> sigh
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• 786[07:50:07] <caray> well first i installed the libglibmm for stretch and it didnt work so i we;t to do the one for jessie and it said conflict threatening to break all my software
• 787[07:51:12] <nkuttler> ,checkbackport seq24
• 788[07:51:14] <judd> Backporting package seq24 in sid→stretch/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using stretch.
• 789[07:51:30] <nkuttler> there you go. all build dependencies for testing seq24 are satisfied in stretch
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• 791[07:52:51] <caray> how do i get that
• 792[07:52:59] <caray> buster d}dnt work
• 793[07:53:02] <nkuttler> !ssbp
• 794[07:53:02] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
• 795[07:53:30] <caray> is thaf a website
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• 799[07:54:05] <nkuttler> no, it's a process
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• 801[07:54:49] <caray> what
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• 803[07:55:13] <nkuttler> you do 1), then 2), then 3), then 4)
• 804[07:56:00] <caray> remember my desktop is offline
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• 806[07:56:20] <caray> how can i do 1 then
• 807[07:56:29] <nkuttler> so? download an installer, install stretch? connect a network cable?
• 808[07:57:04] <caray> im not buying a giant cat5 cable for my cats to chew
• 809[07:57:10] <nkuttler> you can also build the package on a different machine, and transfer the debs to your desktop
• 810[07:57:17] <nkuttler> ok, good luck then
• 811[07:57:24] <caray> i dow;load software on my android and transfer to debian with usb
• 812[07:57:25] <n4dir> caray: then carry the PC to where the cable comes from
• 813[07:57:38] <caray> you realize how much work that is
• 814[07:57:44] <caray> i refuse
• 815[07:57:53] <caray> sigh
• 816[07:57:53] <nkuttler> cool story
• 817[07:57:55] <caray> ok
• 818[07:58:14] <caray> it really is
• 819[07:58:43] <n4dir> obviously a PC without internet connection involves some work, this way or the other.
• 820[07:58:49] <caray> cant you just gimme a link to the deb
• 821[07:58:57] <n4dir> i for one would prefer to carry the PC around, but to each his own
• 822[07:59:04] <caray> yeah android
• 823[07:59:09] <caray> is my internet
• 824[07:59:26] <caray> desktop is for creativity
• 825[07:59:31] <caray> i like it offline
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• 828[08:00:23] <caray> anyhow i do need to update android studio eventually
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• 831[08:00:34] <caray> i guess maybe its time
• 832[08:00:48] <caray> to move it in there
• 833[08:01:39] <caray> thanks for nothing assholes
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• 914[09:47:10] <btel> HI All, Not able to configure static IP on stretch. Looks like eno1 interface is not being taken internally.
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• 933[10:06:51] <marataziat> If I add some env variables will cron script can access it?
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• 989[11:13:50] <tangorri> hi I've added `deb replaced-url
• 990[11:13:50] <tangorri> ` in source.list but I can't get it verifired, so can't install packages
• 991[11:14:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1410
• 992[11:14:25] <tangorri> I see : E: The repository 'replaced-url
• 993[11:14:35] <tangorri> nothing on doc I found
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• 996[11:16:46] <PaddyF> tangorri: what command did you issue and what is the error message you got?
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• 1000[11:18:18] <tangorri> PaddyF : replaced-url
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• 1008[11:23:50] <pingfloyd> tangorri: replaced-url
• 1009[11:24:11] <PaddyF> i wonder why i did not have that problem
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• 1015[11:26:21] <PaddyF> and the error message "... archive ... is not signed" is misleading, IMO. should be "missing key, can not check signature"
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• 1021[11:29:03] <tangorri> sorry PaddyF I had to reboot ...
• 1022[11:29:04] <pingfloyd> replaced-url
• 1023[11:29:22] <pingfloyd> same issue same key
• 1024[11:29:30] <tangorri> I tried this ... let me try again
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• 1026[11:29:47] <PaddyF> tangorri: hang on, pingfloyd knows a solution
• 1027[11:29:48] <pingfloyd> why are you rebooting?
• 1028[11:29:55] <PaddyF> --> <pingfloyd> tangorri: replaced-url
• 1029[11:30:22] <tangorri> pingfloyd, driver issue
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• 1031[11:31:53] <tangorri> PaddyF, which key and domain shouuld I use ?
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• 1034[11:32:40] * PaddyF redirects all work to the other helpers
• 1035[11:33:45] <tangorri> pingfloyd, doesn't work replaced-url
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• 1037[11:35:13] <tangorri> ho sorry seems to work
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• 1039[11:35:22] <tangorri> thanks so
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• 1048[11:45:40] <yo9fah> Merry Christmas all.
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• 1062[11:52:44] <azi`> would you say that the nonfree debian install is safe?
• 1063[11:54:32] <blackflow> safe in what way? security? from patents? aliens? :)
• 1064[11:54:40] *** himcesjf_ is now known as him-cesjf
• 1065[11:55:06] <azi`> its unofficial
• 1066[11:55:14] <azi`> so I wonder if that means a random person might put his stuff in
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• 1068[11:55:41] <blackflow> random person can't upload package to non-free, it needs to be a maintainer with upload rights.
• 1069[11:56:21] <azi`> what does it mean then that its unofficial?
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• 1072[11:57:43] <blackflow> azi`: where did you read it's "unofficial"? non-free is software not compliant with DFSG - Debian Free Software Guidelines. More info here: replaced-url
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• 1074[11:58:36] <sveta3> dm does not start on boot, only tty
• 1075[11:58:49] <azi`> ok I guess I misreead what was written on the debian page
• 1076[11:59:36] <sveta3> nonfree is not safe
• 1077[11:59:49] <blackflow> in what way tho
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• 1080[12:00:17] <sveta3> people check it for malware but there is no way to be completely sure
• 1081[12:00:26] <blackflow> sveta3: same goes for contrib and main
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• 1086[12:01:03] <blackflow> sveta3: so unless you have an actual metric in frequency and severity of CVEs between different repositories, I'd say it's all the same.
• 1087[12:01:48] <sveta3> blackflow yes, we have src for it which is a plus but not fool proof either
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• 1091[12:02:55] <blackflow> right, so saying "it's not safe" is just FUD unless you have actual metric of CVE frequency and severity.
• 1092[12:02:59] <azi`> which desktop environment would you say is generally used on debian?
• 1093[12:03:01] <sveta3> i broke something and do not have x anymore no dm, only as startx by hand
• 1094[12:03:22] <sveta3> whatever the installer offers
• 1095[12:03:22] <azi`> i am actually moving from ubuntu to deb specifically because their window manager/desktop is just afwully annoying
• 1096[12:03:33] <sveta3> there is a few options
• 1097[12:03:48] <blackflow> sveta3: looked into relevant Xorg.0.log ?
• 1098[12:03:49] <sveta3> like gnome, kde, lxde, xfce, cinamon
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• 1100[12:04:17] <tangorri> do I need a local dns to use certbot (let's encrypt) ? I just have pi-hole right now
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• 1102[12:04:33] <blackflow> tangorri: please define "local dns"
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• 1104[12:04:38] <azi`> sveta3: this, that's why I have no clue what to choose
• 1105[12:04:45] <tangorri> local dns server
• 1106[12:04:49] <azi`> I always liked xfce, but seems underdeveloped
• 1107[12:04:58] <blackflow> azi`: try them all, run for a while, see which one suits you better? there is NO other answer. :)
• 1108[12:05:02] <azi`> gnome, I am afraid I'll end up with the same mess as on ubuntu
• 1109[12:05:04] <blackflow> tangorri: resolver?
• 1110[12:05:10] <sveta3> azi` give them all a try in live cd then decide
• 1111[12:05:23] <tangorri> I really such about this, dunno
• 1112[12:05:26] <pingfloyd> azi`: I use xfce
• 1113[12:05:29] <tangorri> suck
• 1114[12:05:29] <azi`> blackflow: true, its just that the isp packages seem to have 4 liveCD's each with a different WM
• 1115[12:05:47] <blackflow> tangorri: I mean, not sure what you're asking. LE works both by HTTP(S) validation and DNS validation so if you choose DNS based validation, yes you need control over the (authoritative) DNS and the zone in question.
• 1116[12:06:03] <pingfloyd> azi`: what mess?
• 1117[12:06:42] <azi`> pingfloyd: for example say I want to switch between windows, I am used to pressing alt+tab
• 1118[12:06:46] <blackflow> azi`: not sure what "isp packages" are. you can install different DEs at any moment and chose one at login. I'm not, however, sure if you can use one DM for all of them, eg. if KDE can be run from GDM.
• 1119[12:06:49] <tangorri> hmmm, so http validation only may be my option (I don't even have static pulic ip)
• 1120[12:07:11] <pingfloyd> azi`: that's how I switch tabs in xfce
• 1121[12:07:14] <azi`> pingfloyd: on ubuntu you can only use this to switch between conceptually different windows ie terminal-> browser, but not terminal1->terminal2
• 1122[12:07:18] <blackflow> tangorri: if you don't have control over the DNS zone, then HTTP(S) is your only option, yes.
• 1123[12:07:19] <pingfloyd> azi`: go to window manager then keyboard
• 1124[12:07:29] <pingfloyd> change the bindings to whatever you want
• 1125[12:07:39] <azi`> pingfloyd: right
• 1126[12:07:47] <blackflow> tangorri: the domain MUST be accessible from outside, so if it's not a static IP, it has to be dyndns'd by teh domain
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• 1128[12:08:05] <azi`> also, would you guys say there is any more work setting up stuff on debian, compared to ubuntu?
• 1129[12:08:11] <pingfloyd> azi`: I use alt+tab a lot. I like how direct the workflow of xfce is.
• 1130[12:08:22] <tangorri> blackflow, yes I'm seting up no-ip
• 1131[12:08:32] <azi`> pingfloyd: i'll give it a second try I guess, last time it felt outdated like nobody is actually working on it
• 1132[12:08:34] <blackflow> azi`: alt+` changes between same window class iirc, in gnome, no?
• 1133[12:08:48] <pingfloyd> azi`: it's not any flashy gimmicks
• 1134[12:08:48] <blackflow> (backtick or tilde, whichever is below ESC)
• 1135[12:08:48] <tangorri> so DNS validation means I need to host my domain myself locally right ?
• 1136[12:08:57] <kirillkh_> altker128 iosecure jim: sorry, I suddenly had to leave after asking the question. so I'll ask again
• 1137[12:09:04] <pingfloyd> azi`: it's alive, it's just they only add really good features
• 1138[12:09:08] <kirillkh_> I have run into a very weird limitation of iptables. IPSec set up a second IP address for my eth0 interface. so I discovered via trial and error that the iptables simply ignores this second address as if it doesn't exist... any way to make it match on the second ip address?
• 1139[12:09:36] <pingfloyd> they're very picky about adding new features, which is good because xfce is purposely trying to avoid feature creep.
• 1140[12:09:47] <azi`> replaced-url
• 1141[12:09:48] <bindi> how should my iptables look if I want to drop everything by default? I added -A INPUT -j DROP in the beginning but it just kills everything. without it everything is allowed (on enp2s0), here are my rules: replaced-url
• 1142[12:09:55] <azi`> does anybody know what bt-hybrid means in this context?
• 1143[12:09:59] <pingfloyd> if you want something flashy, there's kde
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• 1146[12:10:02] <sveta3> azi` you can make sane defaults and share a copy of debian with friends. check debian blends
• 1147[12:10:08] <blackflow> tangorri: if I'm not mistaken, there's a plugin for the google cloud dns thingy, so perhaps you can use that
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• 1149[12:10:19] <azi`> pingfloyd: nah, kde is really trahsy
• 1150[12:10:23] <azi`> trashy*
• 1151[12:10:27] <chomwitt> how can reportbug send an email to BTS when i have installed only Thunderbird. i mean i dont have any MTA as far as i know.
• 1152[12:10:31] <bindi> to be more specific, I want to block incoming connections by default. this seems to be the case on Ubuntu but not Debian, since these rules are transferred from an Ubuntu Server installation
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• 1154[12:10:56] <tangorri> blackflow, well I just want to get local certs so ... I think http validation is enough
• 1155[12:11:09] <tangorri> for now
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• 1157[12:11:24] <pingfloyd> bindi: replaced-url
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• 1159[12:11:50] <blackflow> tangorri: what are "local certs"?
• 1160[12:12:18] <blackflow> also note that certboot hooks should be scriptable so you could script whatever (dyn)DNS situation you might have there.
• 1161[12:12:35] <sveta3> blackflow paste.debian.net/1057327
• 1162[12:12:42] <pingfloyd> bindi: those rules are fine for average desktop use, otherwise they're a good starting point to add further.
• 1163[12:12:43] <tangorri> Don't need to have access from outside for now
• 1164[12:13:01] <bindi> pingfloyd: did you check my rules? :P
• 1165[12:13:22] <pingfloyd> bindi: see the rules I posted
• 1166[12:13:26] <bindi> i did
• 1167[12:13:33] <pingfloyd> bindi: look at the policies
• 1168[12:13:36] <tangorri> blackflow, I'll more about dns etc ... I need it
• 1169[12:13:52] <bindi> pingfloyd: ":INPUT DROP"?
• 1170[12:13:57] <pingfloyd> whatever doesn't match on INPUT and FORWARD will drop
• 1171[12:14:11] <tangorri> thanks blackflow
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• 1173[12:14:24] <blackflow> sveta3: looks like you don't have a valid GPU driver there. which GPU is that?
• 1174[12:14:35] <pingfloyd> except with INPUT there, you will receive related and established connections, which is what you want.
• 1175[12:14:45] <pingfloyd> that means you have to initiate the connection
• 1176[12:15:04] <pingfloyd> which is like 99% of connections for desktop usage
• 1177[12:15:09] <jasabella> what's amd rx vega support like in debian?
• 1178[12:15:31] <jasabella> is the open source driver mainlined?
• 1179[12:15:32] <pingfloyd> from there, just add rules if you need to make more exceptions that you don't want dropped
• 1180[12:15:36] <sveta3> blackflow i have i915 mod loaded and it is fujitsu s7210
• 1181[12:16:02] <sveta3> blackflow not sure if x is picking it up
• 1182[12:16:06] <blackflow> sveta3: more info should be in dmesg about if and how the driver failed
• 1183[12:16:37] <blackflow> not sure what to grep for tho, if it were nvidia, I'd tell you to grep for "nvidia" that almost always reveals relevant errors.
• 1184[12:17:07] <sveta3> blackflow paste.debian.net/1057328
• 1185[12:18:24] <sveta3> is that complete?
• 1186[12:18:44] <jim> hi, merry christmas (or kwanzaa, or happy solstice, or whatever is your flavor)
• 1187[12:19:04] <blackflow> yeah, but I see no errors. Is there /dev/dri/card0 device?
• 1188[12:19:09] <blackflow> sveta3: ^^^
• 1189[12:19:30] <sveta3> yes
• 1190[12:19:44] <bindi> pingfloyd: its not a desktop
• 1191[12:19:48] <sveta3> that file exists
• 1192[12:20:03] <bindi> I think I want :INPUT DROP and :FORWARD ACCEPT
• 1193[12:20:09] <blackflow> sveta3: and what exactly did you do that resulted in this?
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• 1195[12:20:51] <sveta3> walk away yesterday with power unplugged, update and reboot next morning
• 1196[12:21:16] <blackflow> sveta3: can you tell what updated? from /var/log/apt/history.log
• 1197[12:21:16] <sveta3> yesterday i also ran out of space at / once
• 1198[12:21:27] <blackflow> ah, did the update finish successfully?
• 1199[12:21:46] <sveta3> yes it was plugged in today when updating
• 1200[12:22:30] <sveta3> replaced-url
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• 1202[12:22:39] <bindi> pingfloyd: indeed it was :input drop and :forward accept that I needed, I somehow didnt take them with me when I copied the old rules
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• 1205[12:23:17] <blackflow> sveta3: oh you had x2go?
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• 1207[12:25:20] <blackflow> sveta3: unfortunately this is beyond me, but it looks like you replaced x2go with xorg, so I'm guessing you just didn't install all the required packages. I don't know about wdm, did you try another DM? these days the DM is setting up proper xorg session which is important with regards to xorg and running it unprivileged.
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• 1210[12:27:10] <blackflow> sveta3: perhaps install something like xfce as a full DE, then trim down and replace only DE with whatever WM you want, don't touch xorg. I'm sorry, not sure what else to suggest.
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• 1216[12:29:28] <sveta3> blackflow yed
• 1217[12:29:32] <sveta3> yes
• 1218[12:29:34] <noodlepie> Hiya guys! Merry Christmas fellaz!
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• 1220[12:29:43] <sveta3> i do not use x2go though
• 1221[12:29:58] <blackflow> yea but you installed and messed up xorg.
• 1222[12:30:18] <sveta3> i removed x2go
• 1223[12:30:29] <blackflow> and then you removed xserver* too
• 1224[12:30:29] <sveta3> i didnt install it today
• 1225[12:30:32] <sveta3> yes
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• 1227[12:31:17] <sveta3> to be more clear the problem started with that it has no x and no ttys so i removed everything hoping it woyld start working
• 1228[12:31:23] <sveta3> but it didnt
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• 1230[12:31:29] <blackflow> so you broke xorg. I'd really recommend, install xfce and let it pull in and set up its dependencies. if you get a normally working DE like that, then change to fluxbox and remove only those components (but nothing from xorg!) that you don't use
• 1231[12:31:52] <sveta3> i tried previous kernel that gives me ttys and startx but no dm
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• 1233[12:31:54] <blackflow> I am assuming you want fluxbox, from what you've been installing.
• 1234[12:32:04] <sveta3> as a start, yes
• 1235[12:32:24] <sveta3> i dont mind xfce
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• 1237[12:32:50] <sveta3> what is its package name ?
• 1238[12:33:05] <blackflow> sveta3: replaced-url
• 1239[12:33:51] <sveta3> ok
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• 1251[12:44:22] <sveta3> blackflow after adding xfce4 the dm shows but it throws me back to login
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• 1253[12:46:10] <blackflow> sveta3: what does the journal have to say right after you're thrown back to login? can you, say, ctrl-alt-F3 to another tty, login, and check journalctl -n 50 ?
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• 1261[12:52:10] <sveta3> blackflow paste.debian.net/1057336
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• 1265[12:55:06] <blackflow> sveta3: sorry, nothing immediately obvious in that. HOWEVER... that cron at the end, if that freedns URL contains sensitive info (passwords?), change that immediately, as you've just pasted it in public.
• 1266[12:56:04] <blackflow> I'd also recommend you put that wget call into a script, and then have cron call that script instead. cron logs commands and in case of future issues and public posts of journal, you won't leak it.
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• 1269[12:56:51] <sveta3> blackflow ok
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• 1272[12:59:41] <blackflow> sveta3: perhaps you can back up your data (home folder for example) and let debian install the DE of choice for you? the installer presents you with a choice. going out for custom WM setups requires a bit of expertise in how the whole de/wm/xorg ecosystem works together.
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• 1274[12:59:59] <blackflow> (back up, _reinstall_ and let debian install....)
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• 1281[13:05:40] <sveta3> blackflow i dont mind it if xfce works
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• 1283[13:06:03] <sveta3> not really that important to have flyxbox
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• 1285[13:06:40] <sveta3> not sure how to backup rsync has too many options and zip may not save permissions correctly
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• 1287[13:07:48] <blackflow> sveta3: my point is, I'm guessing something is broken with all those xorg/xserver/x2go (re)installations. if installing xfce4 did not pull in and set itself up, then something else broke too.
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• 1289[13:08:52] <blackflow> for rsync -a is pretty much all you'll need. rsync -va /home/username/ /where/to/back/it/up/ (the trailing slashes are important!)
• 1290[13:09:24] <blackflow> assuming of course your ~/ is all that needs backing up. I don't know that.
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• 1293[13:11:49] <cybrNaut> PageUp and PageDown keys keep breaking out of the pure blue. Anyone else notice this? I just started happening, so it's likely a bad update
• 1294[13:11:56] <pingfloyd> good idea to backup /root and /etc
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• 1297[13:13:19] <cybrNaut> i doubt it's a config issue. The keys work when the system boots.. then they just stop working often after I've used GPG
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• 1300[13:14:17] <cybrNaut> i do in fact have a backup of /root and /etc, but i'm not sure it'd be worthwhile to compare differences
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• 1326[13:43:49] <azi`> so, I just installed debian with xfce and it looks pretty smooth.. two questions though
• 1327[13:44:11] <azi`> 1) seems like I am not able to but via hdd (bios says there is no OS installed) and so I have to use the boot usb to access the system
• 1328[13:44:17] <azi`> any clues how to circumvent this?
• 1329[13:44:44] <azi`> I recall having tab completion for command line arguments on ubuntu, any way to get this going on deb as well?
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• 1332[13:47:19] <blackflow> azi`: legacy bios or EFI boot?
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• 1334[13:48:26] <azi`> blackflow: EFI I'm sure
• 1335[13:48:33] <blackflow> azi`: the bash-completion package deals with tab completion for a lot of commands, for bash.
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• 1337[13:48:51] <azi`> blackflow: thans
• 1338[13:48:54] <azi`> thanks*
• 1339[13:49:13] <azi`> also, seems like the fonts are not as smooth as I am used to, is there a known issue with this?
• 1340[13:50:49] <blackflow> ubuntu is a completely separate distro, just based on mostly the same packages. it adds a lot of spit and polish to default supported UI setups, "Ubuntu font" included. I guess you could do the same in debian, but it's manual work.
• 1341[13:51:02] <blackflow> (the same packages = ones from sid)
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• 1343[13:52:23] <blackflow> make sure you have fonts-liberation installed (should be installed by default), and fonts-noto for all those fancy UTF-8 things, emojis, whatnots. from there it's tweaking the xfce settings to get what you like.
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• 1345[13:52:52] <azi`> blackflow: thanks
• 1346[13:52:59] <azi`> how about the EFI boot thing, is this doable?
• 1347[13:53:37] <blackflow> my experience of EFI on Debian is virtually nonexistent. This might help tho: replaced-url
• 1348[13:53:53] <azi`> blackflow: ouch, so basically I'd have to boot through the usb everytime?
• 1349[13:54:58] <blackflow> did you look at that link?
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• 1355[13:56:09] <azi`> blackflow: reading it now yes
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• 1358[13:58:10] <blackflow> azi`: is your system capable of legacy bios boot? Maybe the installer did that instead? Does sudo blkid | grep bios_boot return anything?
• 1359[13:59:20] <azi`> blackflow: nope, 0 matches from grep
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• 1361[14:00:49] <blackflow> azi`: can you pastebin output of that sudo blkid? not sure how to grep for ESP
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• 1364[14:02:29] <azi`> blackflow: actually i've found an option in my usb to enable legacy and it seem to be booting fine now
• 1365[14:04:25] <blackflow> azi`: oh it's a MBR installation?
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• 1507[16:35:44] <iosecure> kirillkh: Still around?
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• 1509[16:36:17] <kirillkh> iosecure: yeah, I figured it out though :)
• 1510[16:36:32] <iosecure> kirillkh: I still wanted to discuss that with you, though. What was your solution?
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• 1513[16:39:34] <martian67> Merry Christmas!
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• 1515[16:40:00] <kirillkh> iosecure: the problem turned out to be that outgoing packets originating from IP2 on eth0 (the ip assigned by strongswan) resulted in two activations of iptables: one for the original packet with src=IP2 and the other for the packet with src=IP1 and dst=VPN_SERVER_IP. my firewall rules allowed the first packet through, but not the second one
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• 1517[16:40:54] <kirillkh> iosecure: so I added a rule allowing all UDP traffic from source port 4500
• 1518[16:40:54] <iosecure> Ah, so the rules were passing the inside traffic, but not the encapsulating traffic that carried it.
• 1519[16:41:25] <kirillkh> yes
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• 1522[16:41:55] <iosecure> Got it. Glad you fixed it. :)
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• 1524[16:42:20] <kirillkh> right now I'm investigating the option of switching to a dummy interface in order to separate the two activations and avoid having to match on the source port (which I don't like too much)
• 1525[16:42:32] <iosecure> strongSwan?
• 1526[16:42:35] <kirillkh> yeah
• 1527[16:42:42] <iosecure> Check out VTI.
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• 1532[16:44:34] <iosecure> Now, that's not going to change the fact that outbound ESP traffic will have to be processed.
• 1533[16:44:49] <iosecure> Nothing that you do will stop the fact that encap traffic is exiting on 4500/udp.
• 1534[16:45:21] <Mimiko> Hello. I've set up exim4 for sending and receiving email for a registered domain. It is working ok. The only problem I cannot find how to solve is to force all outgoing emails from the system to go to the exum4 instance. Ie, send an email to user@mydomain.com works, but is not going thru ACLs. Or, emails from the system outward is going dirrectly to the internet servers and not using local
• 1535[16:45:21] <Mimiko> exim4 instance. Where this can be configured?
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• 1537[16:46:12] <kirillkh> iosecure: does it work with ikev2?
• 1538[16:47:21] <iosecure> kirillkh: Yes. But again, you're still going to have to allow traffic from 4500/udp outbound.
• 1539[16:47:27] <iosecure> Nothing will change that.
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• 1542[16:52:05] <kirillkh> iosecure: you're right. so I'm thinking what I really want is to assign some symbolic name to this VPN connection and refer to it in the iptables configuration (allow traffic through this tunnel, block everything else). but I haven't found a way to do that
• 1543[16:52:49] <kirillkh> if I could do that, then I would be able to switch specific VPN server address and ports freely without breaking my configuration
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• 1553[16:57:14] <iosecure> You could set up a VTI config, pass traffic over that interface, and only allow 4500/udp traffic outbound on the real interface.
• 1554[16:57:40] <iosecure> IPsec authenticates both ends to each other, so its not like you could randomly send ESP traffic to the wrong server.
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• 1556[16:58:12] <azi`> blackflow: yeah looks like it was a MBR one
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• 1602[17:28:58] <CarlFK> apt upgrade sid box that I don't care too much about, but I'm curious: is there some way to tell what is/isnt' selected? replaced-url
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• 1605[17:34:00] <antto> dayum, how do i convert the .ogv file that comes out of recordmydesktop into anything else like mp4 or even animated gif?
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• 1647[17:56:42] <at0m> antto: search web for "ffmpeg .ogv to .mp4"
• 1648[17:57:19] <antto> yeah.. found it.. i just thought there would be an "easier" way
• 1649[17:57:46] <antto> still can't seem to upload this to imgur tho..
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• 1651[17:59:28] <at0m> antto: do you need to up to imgur specifically, or just host it "somewhere" ?
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• 1653[18:00:07] <at0m> if you need simple hosting, try replaced-url
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• 1656[18:00:58] <user1_fn> A problem with xfce4-notifyd for stretch: After having installed and uninstalled dunst (I think), the themes which xfce4-notifyd offers (Bright, Default, Retro, Smoke, ZOMG-PONIES!) are not used anymore, instead a generic theme is used. Any ideas?
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• 1661[18:04:19] <user1_fn> Tried "aptitude reinstall xfce4-notifyd". No success.
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• 1677[18:13:08] <annadane> if i edit /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades is there anything i need to type to get the system to register the changes?
• 1678[18:13:21] <annadane> like how if you edit .bash_aliases you need to "source .bash_aliases"
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• 1681[18:15:36] <annadane> i think it automatically sets it up after you install the package though
• 1682[18:15:52] <annadane> so yeah i guess i answered my own question
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• 1697[18:19:41] <knstn> When debian 10 comes out?
• 1698[18:19:56] <lunacat> May 2019
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• 1700[18:20:10] <annadane> hard freeze is march 2019
• 1701[18:20:14] <annadane> more likely july 2019
• 1702[18:20:23] <annadane> june/july
• 1703[18:20:41] <knstn> ok, and what's the current kernel version?
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• 1706[18:20:56] <annadane> in debian 10? i believe it will be 4.18 which is LTS
• 1707[18:21:11] <knstn> now on 9.6?
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• 1709[18:21:33] <annadane> now it's 4.9
• 1710[18:21:48] <annadane> either 4.18 or 4.19 for buster, i don't recall which
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• 1718[18:25:01] <blackflow> annadane: 4.19 will be LTS
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• 1723[18:28:07] <knstn> ans something last: to create a bootable usb, before i "burn" the iso image on it, do i have to format it with ISO9096 or whatever it is for DVD/CD media? any other configuration required?
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• 1725[18:28:35] <n4dir> nope
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• 1731[18:33:08] <CarlFK> antto: try this: gst-launch-1.0 filesrc location=11_41_18.ts ! decodebin ! videoconvert ! mpeg2enc ! filesink location=video.mp4
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• 1796[19:29:12] <CarlFK> antto: nice intro to gst: replaced-url
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• 1822[19:50:23] <jhutchins> ,kernels
• 1823[19:50:24] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.19.0-trunk-686-pae (4.19.5-1~exp1); sid: 4.19.0-1-686-pae (4.19.12-1); buster: 4.18.0-3-686 (4.18.20-2); stretch-backports: 4.18.0-0.bpo.3-686 (4.18.20-2~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-8-686-pae (4.9.130-2); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.8-686-pae (4.9.110-3+deb9u5~deb8u1); wheezy-
• 1824[19:50:25] <judd> backports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.102-1)
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• 1837[20:01:14] <iovec> Why is there no tmp.mount unit in debian?
• 1838[20:01:16] <iovec> systemctl status says no unit found
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• 1840[20:02:25] <iovec> I mean it is but in /usr/share/systemd
• 1841[20:02:26] <iovec> systemd won't look in there
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• 1864[20:10:49] <Sveta> lightdm throws me back to login screen with my or with another user, removing Xauthority is unhelpful, ~/.xsession-errors is empty, Xorg.0.log is replaced-url
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• 1887[20:24:19] <rwp> Hi Sveta! What is in the /var/log/auth.log file? That may be more telling.
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• 1899[20:27:54] <Sveta> rwp: nothing for today, except a log of what commands I ran as sudo
• 1900[20:27:56] <rwp> Sveta, If lightdm is failing the login and cycling back to the login form then I would try Cntrl-Alt-F1 to get to the text console and then try logging in there. I expect you will have some error there that will be easier to spot.
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• 1902[20:28:17] <Sveta> rwp: I logged in the tty1, what's next?
• 1903[20:28:19] <rwp> I think there might be an error in the .profile, .bash_profile, or .bashrc file that is causing the login to exit.
• 1904[20:28:26] <rwp> You did? That worked?
• 1905[20:28:32] <Sveta> yes
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• 1907[20:28:56] <rwp> Hmm...
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• 1910[20:29:27] <rwp> If lightdm is up and running for the login form then X is working okay and I would not expect anything to be logged there.
• 1911[20:29:32] <diogenes_> Sveta, it might as well be a config issue
• 1912[20:29:39] <Sveta> removed .bashrc and .profile, do not have .bash_profile, same issue with lightdm
• 1913[20:29:44] <rwp> But if the login exits immediately that is why I was suspecting something in the user environment.
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• 1915[20:30:05] <diogenes_> i'd try: mv ~/.config ~/.config.old
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• 1917[20:30:43] <Sveta> just added a new user using 'adduser', same issue with it in lightdm
• 1918[20:30:51] <rwp> +1 since there may be something in the users Desktop Environment that is exiting the user immediately.
• 1919[20:31:26] <Sveta> moved .config to .config.1 same issue
• 1920[20:31:40] <diogenes_> Sveta, is it stretch?
• 1921[20:31:41] <Sveta> purged lightdm and installed it again, same issue
• 1922[20:31:51] <Sveta> yes i think so
• 1923[20:32:05] <rwp> How about trying 'startx' from the text console login? (Although systemd changes everything in this space.)
• 1924[20:32:15] <diogenes_> Sveta, ls /etc/X11
• 1925[20:32:20] <rwp> Hoping there will be an appropriate error message that will say what it is doing.
• 1926[20:32:22] <diogenes_> what do you have in tehre
• 1927[20:32:46] <Sveta> startx starts a white box with commandline.. with mouse, and typing eg 'fluxbox' in it works to start it correctly
• 1928[20:32:50] <rwp> You can check the version with "cat /etc/debian_version"
• 1929[20:33:31] <Sveta> diogenes_: replaced-url
• 1930[20:33:32] <rwp> I expected startx to fail but to leave an error message behind.
• 1931[20:34:22] <diogenes_> so maybe try to replace lightdm with something like gdm
• 1932[20:34:44] <rwp> Just brainstorming possibly not so good ideas but you would apt-get purge lightdm and then install xdm ... I was just typing that in! :-)
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• 1934[20:35:20] <rwp> I would try xdm since it is the older and simpler interface. Less entanglements with other things.
• 1935[20:35:34] <diogenes_> ^^
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• 1937[20:37:30] <Sveta> lxdm works, thank you
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• 1942[20:38:59] <rwp> That problem with lightdm is so strange. Something is still going on there. It is usually such a good performer.
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• 1944[20:39:52] <diogenes_> so it's a lightdm bug? i have never ever had a single issue with it
• 1945[20:40:10] <rwp> Probably a configuration problem rather than a bug.
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• 1948[20:40:29] <rwp> Because I am sure if you took a system and did a pristine installation upon it that it would work perfectly.
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• 1957[20:43:49] <Sveta> Yes, interestingly not resolved with a freshly created user or purging lightdm, rwp.
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• 1964[20:46:53] <rwp> That says the problem is not in /home anywhere. Therefore must be in the system somewhere. Probably an interaction with systemd somewhere.
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• 1967[20:48:01] <diogenes_> ah, that's hwy probably i've never had an issue with it because my system is no-systemd :)
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• 1969[20:48:08] <diogenes_> why*
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• 1986[20:57:03] <cordess> Hello and merry christmas
• 1987[20:57:05] *** Joins: toxync12 (~toxync12@replaced-ip)
• 1988[20:57:36] <cordess> debian net installer failes when checking the installation medium from a multiboot usb stick
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• 1990[20:58:40] <cordess> sha256 checksums are correct and the installer boots but it tries to check the installation medium. When doing this, it refues to continue with the installation process. Any ideas?
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• 1992[20:59:38] <rwp> That also sounds perplexing cordess since if the checksum was good then it should be able to continue.
• 1993[21:00:11] <rwp> What release track debian-installer are you using?
• 1994[21:00:21] <cordess> well it boots into the net installer showing debian setup but then it checks if the installation medium is correect and on the multiboot usb stick the debian is only an iso image
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• 1996[21:00:54] <cordess> debian-9.6.0-amd64-netinst.iso
• 1997[21:01:07] <cordess> i also treid to install from a full dvd iso, but same error.
• 1998[21:01:23] <cordess> it seems to be it doesn't like my multiboot iso usb stick
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• 2005[21:03:54] <rwp> What exactly is the error that you are seeing?
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• 2008[21:04:11] <watchcat> cordess: if you have a rooted android phone you can use druvedroid. then you can just dump iso's on it and boot whichever you like.
• 2009[21:04:26] <watchcat> drivedroid*
• 2010[21:04:26] <cordess> in the installer menu it checks the cd and failes. Don't know the exact message from memory.
• 2011[21:05:24] <rwp> Wait... We are talking about an Android system?
• 2012[21:05:33] <cordess> Here's my grub cfg, the debian installer is the second entry. The AMD64 netinstaller entry got replaced by the DVD installer, but the error is the same. it does boot into the debian image, but the problem is the installer. replaced-url
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• 2014[21:06:04] <cordess> no, it's an 64bit Intel processor
• 2015[21:06:08] <cordess> a normal PC
• 2016[21:06:18] <diogenes_> cordess, the issue is initrd
• 2017[21:06:21] <diogenes_> nothing else
• 2018[21:06:34] <cordess> how can i fix this?
• 2019[21:06:53] <diogenes_> cordess, wait i'll give you a link
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• 2022[21:08:16] <diogenes_> cordess, ypu grab the initrd from here
• 2023[21:08:18] <diogenes_> replaced-url
• 2024[21:08:40] <diogenes_> in your grub.cfg yopu append initrd /path/to/this initrd^^^
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• 2028[21:09:40] <cordess> should i replace initrd.gz with the one in the link?
• 2029[21:10:28] *** Quits: crimastergogo (~crimaster@replaced-ip) (Quit: crimastergogo)
• 2030[21:11:15] <cordess> or should i copy it somewhere on the usb stick outside of the iso file which is also on the usb stick?
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• 2034[21:14:31] <rwp> Hopefully diogenes_ can help you cordess because you appear to be doing something quite unusual. Usually people would boot the install image. But you appear to have installed a bootable install image on your target system storage. That's a new technique for me.
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• 2036[21:15:07] <rwp> If you are intending to install Debian is there any reason you are not able to boot the installer directly from removable media such as USB drive?
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• 2038[21:15:19] <rwp> Or from cdrom or dvd?
• 2039[21:15:39] <diogenes_> cordess, you don't necessarity have to remove the old one
• 2040[21:15:55] <diogenes_> just place the new one on you medium and give it's path
• 2041[21:16:15] <cordess> It's a multi boot usb stick. It's some sort of USB Stick Installer to rule them all.
• 2042[21:16:28] <cordess> I can provide a layout of the file hierarchy
• 2043[21:16:31] <cordess> one moment
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• 2048[21:20:58] <cordess> replaced-url
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• 2050[21:21:21] <cordess> there are two folders for grub, but /grub is outdated only /boot/grub counts
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• 2052[21:22:47] <cordess> i can't use my dvd drive, it needs a lense cleaning. At the moment it can't read the media
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• 2055[21:24:10] <cordess> usually i use this multi boot usb installer. It works for all flavours of ubuntu, memtest86+, win vista, win 7 and win 8 and some more. FreeNAS didn't work but wasn't necessary. I found another way. Kali Linux isn't tested.
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• 2058[21:25:27] <rwp> Well... That's a new one for me. If it works great. But it isn't working. Therefore I would suggest taking a different USB stick and copying the installer onto it and booting it directly. That is the well tested path and should work.
• 2059[21:25:37] <cordess> diogenes_ thanky i will try this.
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• 2071[21:32:21] <cordess> okay i created an entry like this one " initrd /images/debian_initrd/initrd.gz"
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• 2073[21:32:49] <cordess> and replaced " initrd (loop)/install.amd/initrd.gz"
• 2074[21:33:08] <diogenes_> yep
• 2075[21:33:12] <diogenes_> should work
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• 2079[21:33:48] <cordess> the initrd.gz from othe kernel.org url and the iso file differs. What's differnet in the kernel org version?
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• 2083[21:34:42] <diogenes_> cordess, that one is for hd medium
• 2084[21:34:52] <diogenes_> whereas the debian one is for cd medium
• 2085[21:35:11] <cordess> and this one can load the iso image on the usb drive?
• 2086[21:35:26] <cordess> or use flash medium?
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• 2088[21:36:09] <diogenes_> i tested it with usb pendriv only
• 2089[21:36:47] <cordess> ok, i will test it.
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• 2103[21:56:14] <HeXiLeD> looking for chromium-codec-ffmpeg-extra for debian. not the browser. just the codec. any ideas on the specific name ?
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• 2106[22:00:48] <cordess> okay, i am back. It searchs for the debian ISO file but selects the wrong one. It does select the kubuntu iso instead of the debian iso. Here's the log replaced-url
• 2107[22:02:56] <cordess> This is the main error: Dec 25 20:49:32 iso-scan: ISOS_FOUND='[sdb1] /images/kubuntu-18.04.1-desktop-amd64.iso (bionic - 18.04), [sdb1] /images/debian-9.6.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso (stable - 9.6), [sdb1] /images/kali-linux-2018.2-amd64.iso (kali-rolling - 2018.2)'
• 2108[22:02:56] <cordess> Dec 25 20:49:32 iso-scan: Selected ISO: /images/kubuntu-18.04.1-desktop-amd64.iso on /dev/sdb1
• 2109[22:03:16] <cordess> pastebin line 76 and 77
• 2110[22:03:59] <gordonfish> Merry Christmas and Debian new year
• 2111[22:04:01] <cordess> is there a way to provide the iso file manually?
• 2112[22:04:32] <cordess> i can do this better than this debian iso file search algorithm
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• 2114[22:05:29] <cordess> it finds thee iso. Kubuntu, Debian_64 and kali linux but it selects kubuntu
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• 2123[22:12:11] <cordess> diogenes, do you know why it does select the kubuntu iso instead of the debian iso?
• 2124[22:12:40] <cordess> at least it doesn't seem to select the isos by alphabetical order
• 2125[22:12:45] <diogenes_> cordess, maybe the path is wrong
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• 2129[22:15:34] <gordonfish> Dodo dodo. Deb Deb. Deb DebDeb. I'm... Dreamin,.. of a white. Deb Deb. Christmas :)
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• 2131[22:15:56] <gordonfish> (like in Home Alone)
• 2132[22:16:09] <uso> Are there any problems to expect when I upgrade a system with a separate /usr partition from jessie to stretch with debian standard kernel and initrd?
• 2133[22:17:42] <cordess> not, ithe path is correct. The log says that it finds 3 usable iso images, but in the order kubuntu, debian, kali-linux and then the installer selects the first one. After selecting the wrong one it fails
• 2134[22:18:50] <cordess> Here take a closer look. I narrowed it doen to the following replaced-url
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• 2136[22:20:02] <diogenes_> cordess, i can't open it now but my grub.cfg is very simple, it doesn't look for isos is just respects the give path
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• 2140[22:21:59] <cordess> the problem relys not in the grub configuration-. The problem is the debian installer that tries to search for iso files on the usb media
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• 2149[22:30:17] <jhutchins> cordess: There is a version of the installer that was meant to boot to something like a USB, but pull the files from a CD/DVD. From a time when CD boot wasn't always available, and USB drives were too small.
• 2150[22:30:36] <jhutchins> (Why USB boot would be available if CD wasn't I don't know)
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• 2153[22:31:09] <jhutchins> cordess: We often see people have that problem, it often appears to be a result of using unetbootin to burn the image.
• 2154[22:31:45] <jhutchins> cordess: I would check which image you actually have, make sure it's CRC checks, and try re-applying it.
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• 2166[22:37:17] <cordess> the debian iso image is fine. sha256sum gives an ok. The problem is not the image, the problem is the selecting algorithm of the debian installer
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• 2169[22:38:06] <cordess> the algorithm finds three isos, like the log shows, but it selects the wrong iso. I selects the first one. But i didn't found out why kubuntu is actually the first one.
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• 2171[22:42:44] <cordess> okay, i found the reason of the search order.
• 2172[22:43:05] <cordess> it finds the iso files after the inode or index number. Lowest first.
• 2173[22:43:36] <cordess> the usb flash media partition is of type vfat
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• 2175[22:45:01] <cordess> Here's an overview the order how the isos where found and the index number the file do have on the media replaced-url
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• 2177[22:46:16] <cordess> now i need a way to decieve the debian installer to find the debian iso before the kubuntu iso if there is no way to select it manually.
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• 2182[22:49:11] <aspyct> anybody knows how to disable hibernation in debian 9? I specifically want to disable suspend to disk, but keep suspend to RAM
• 2183[22:49:26] <aspyct> The manpage doesn't seem to mention the option that would be useful for that
• 2184[22:49:27] <aspyct> replaced-url
• 2185[22:49:50] <aspyct> in other systems apparently you can use `AllowHirbernation=no`
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• 2187[22:52:25] <cordess> okay, i deleted the kubuntu iso now and copyied it over again to the usb media. This gives the new kubunto iso a higher inode number
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• 2189[22:53:34] <cordess> if everything goes right the installer should now be decieved into selecting the debian iso image instead of the kubuntu iso image. Because now, the debian iso image is now the one with the smaller inode number
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• 2191[22:53:56] <srg_____> aspyct> If you are using GNOME, you set it in the Settings App under Power (ie select Suspend rather than Hibernate)
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• 2199[23:04:34] <cordess> okay, this didn't work because vfat doesn't have real inode numbers. They seem to get generted on the fly when mounting a vfat partition. Thus it's not possible to decieve the debian iso scanner into selecting another image this way. I will now try to rename the kubuntu image
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• 2204[23:06:15] <cordess> Btw the menu option with this bug in the debian installer is called "Scan hard drives for an installer iso image"
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• 2208[23:08:19] <aspyct> srg_____: it's a server, so bash only
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• 2235[23:23:41] <rwp> aspyct, If it is a server then what would trigger suspend-to-ram or hibernate-to-disk in any case? (Mostly just curious...)
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• 2237[23:24:17] <aspyct> I would :) sorry the info was incomplete. It's a home server, and I would be happy to save some power/noise
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• 2239[23:25:22] <rwp> There are several different paths that get to the suspend/hibernate function. For example: /etc/acpi/power.sh and /etc/acpi/events/sleepbtn
• 2240[23:26:08] <rwp> Just as a for example. You may or may not have the acpi-support and acpid packages installed even.
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• 2243[23:26:56] <aspyct> well I can install them, no big deal. I thought systemd would provide that but apparently it doesn't
• 2244[23:27:58] <rwp> I wasn't suggesting that they be installed. Just providing at least one concrete example of one path to get there.
• 2245[23:28:36] <rwp> I am one of those who is not running systemd and therefore cannot provide any more advise on the problem. Sorry.
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• 2247[23:29:21] <aspyct> aha, yeah I've seen the debate for/against systemd, but only from far away
• 2248[23:29:32] <aspyct> so are you running debian 9 without systemd, or a previous version then?
• 2249[23:29:35] <aspyct> or not debian at all?
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• 2253[23:29:56] <rwp> I am running Debian 9 and Sid Unstable both without systemd.
• 2254[23:30:32] <aspyct> didn't know it was still possible. systemd seems to have been installed by default here
• 2255[23:30:41] <aspyct> what's so bad about systemd actually?
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• 2257[23:30:49] <rwp> Debian is really good for servers, and good for desktops, and good for small systems like the Pis. It's the Universial Operating System! Or at least was...
• 2258[23:30:52] <annadane> that's a very long discussion, use google
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• 2260[23:31:18] <annadane> replaced-url
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• 2263[23:31:32] <rwp> Yes. It's a bad topic for the town-hall that is #debian as it incites deep emotions.
• 2264[23:31:47] <annadane> caveat: that was 3 years ago and one of the problems with systemd people had was when it first came out it was poorly documented and people had to get used to it etc
• 2265[23:31:56] <annadane> but yeah, that provides *an* overview
• 2266[23:32:05] <aspyct> ah yeah, big religious debate, I get it. Won't get into that!
• 2267[23:32:14] <aspyct> thx for the overview
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• 2269[23:32:38] <annadane> some people dislike systemd, some like it, some just dislike the forced integration, others think it's a good init system but shouldn't be bundled into everything, some think it's necessary, etc. it's not universally regarded as bad
• 2270[23:32:47] <rwp> It's quite painful for me since I like to help people here. But when the problem centers on systemd I can only politely dance around the topic.
• 2271[23:33:21] * annadane is neutral on it and has no horse in the race
• 2272[23:33:52] <iosecure> I don't really care about the emotional aspect. I care about functionality. systemd makes things easier for me in many ways, so I like it just fine.
• 2273[23:34:46] <watchcat> same. except i know nothing about systemd, gpt, uefi...
• 2274[23:35:40] <annadane> it also probably depends on what you went through, some people used fedora which is a test bed for new technologies and gotten bitten by it, people using debian may have had an easier time due to it being more conservative, i don't know
• 2275[23:36:10] <rwp> In many ways the new person learning things for the very first time is least impacted. Since they don't know any other way.
• 2276[23:36:53] <iosecure> Yeah, that wasn't me.
• 2277[23:37:10] <iosecure> But I'm not hyper-resistant to every change that comes along, either.
• 2278[23:37:24] <annadane> that's a nice side effect of debian stable, not only are the programs unchanging and thus (probably) more tested but you only have to deal with real paradigm shifts every 2 years
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• 2280[23:38:13] <rwp> Agreed on the 2-year cycle being a good rate for major changes.
• 2281[23:38:30] <aspyct> are they actually changing something big every 2 years?
• 2282[23:38:37] <cordess> okay, renaming the iso file worked. now the debian installer selects the debian iso image
• 2283[23:38:55] <iosecure> aspyct: The biggest change I can remember was systemd. The impact to me was learning a few commands and translating an initscript to a systemd unit.
• 2284[23:38:57] <rwp> The main reason I am running Unstable on a few systems is so I can detect bugs as early as possible, report them, try to get them fixed, before they enter Stable and I must then deal with them for the next 2-year cycle.
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• 2287[23:39:13] <annadane> which is of course a difference between the more bsd-like linuxses, slackware, void, which try to aim to be traditional, other linuxes like ubuntu, debian, fedora, arch which incorporate paradigm shifts, and actual bsd's which sort of go unchanged for years paradigm wise, as i understand it
• 2288[23:39:32] <cordess> but i must say this partition manager of debian is times behind modern solutions. It even does let me change the size of the proposed lvm partitions
• 2289[23:39:42] <cordess> doesn't
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• 2291[23:40:57] <annadane> "a system administrator of openbsd 4 can do the same on openbsd 6 without too much adjustment" etc, however much of a stereotype that may or may not ne
• 2292[23:41:03] <annadane> just different approaches/philosophies
• 2293[23:41:08] <rwp> cordess, Go into the configure lvm section and change the sizes as you wish.
• 2294[23:41:16] <annadane> may not be*
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• 2296[23:41:32] <annadane> BSDs of course for the most part do not use systemd
• 2297[23:41:32] <rwp> cordess, You will need to delete the LV and create it again of the size you wish.
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• 2300[23:42:12] <aspyct> annadane: I just recently tried openbsd for a few days. It is nice indeed, but it's really hard to get into it. Tons of man pages to read
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• 2302[23:42:28] <aspyct> I suppose I don't have time for that. debian is nice, and I'm used to it :)
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• 2304[23:42:37] <aspyct> just need to learn more in-depth
• 2305[23:42:42] <cordess> rwp i did try a lot maybe i didn't found that option.
• 2306[23:43:21] <annadane> yes, well, the BSDs and openbsd in particular are known for the excellence of their documentation, but everyone learns in different ways, a good way to learn is by asking the community what to start with, you'd do the same with asking the debian community if you weren't already familiar with it starting out
• 2307[23:43:27] <rwp> In the partition selection it is 2nd or 3rd from the top. If you have a small screen it may have scolled off. Cursor up until you see it.
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• 2309[23:43:53] <cordess> the problem is, the proposal creates lvm entries and partitions based on these lvm entries and i can't remove the partitions from the lvm entries. I can only nullify them.
• 2310[23:44:00] <aspyct> annadane: yes, I tried asking the community. That's also why I'm back here.
• 2311[23:44:02] <annadane> conversely i'm already familiar with debian but the wiki is sometimes known to be out of date, etc
• 2312[23:44:32] <aspyct> hehe, that's true too
• 2313[23:45:46] <rwp> cordess, I will fire up a VM so I can read the actual selection. Are you using the graphical or console installation?
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• 2316[23:46:54] <cordess> rwp, it's a text based ASCII GUI.
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• 2318[23:47:29] <rwp> I'll assume you meant text mode installer not GUI there. :-)
• 2319[23:47:32] <cordess> i will fire up a VM too, so i don't have to switch betweein the machines
• 2320[23:47:41] <rwp> Which is my favorite too by the way...
• 2321[23:48:01] <iosecure> cordess: In order to remove LVs in that interface, you'd go to 'manage logical volumes.'
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• 2323[23:48:12] <iosecure> Or whatever the precise verbiage is on the partitioning screen.
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• 2326[23:50:18] <cordess> rwp interesting the initrd i use doesn't offer me the graphical installer. I right get into the text based installer.
• 2327[23:50:43] <rwp> There is really no need for the graphical installer. The text based one is so much faster, responsive.
• 2328[23:51:36] <rwp> The first partition form asks how you wish to partition the disk. Has suggestions for different things. You are talking LVM so I choose the one with separate partitions for everything.
• 2329[23:51:41] <cordess> well other distros offer gparted in a xwindow environment. Such a partition manager would be really handy for Debian in the installation process
• 2330[23:52:30] <rwp> The default installer does offer a graphical installation. As the first and default choice.
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• 2332[23:52:43] <rwp> If it is not for you then maybe it is because there is no working graphics available for you?
• 2333[23:53:01] <rwp> It isn't needed on a headless server though.
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• 2335[23:53:33] <cordess> rwp, okay i have the virtual machine running and i am now at the front of the partition disks menu. On the real machine i selected the option "Guided - use entire disk and set up LVM"
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• 2340[23:54:22] <cordess> rwp, i will now select the same option in the vm
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• 2343[23:54:26] <cordess> okay?
• 2344[23:54:27] <rwp> After selecting: Separate /home, /var, and /tmp partitions it prompts with a filled out selection of suggestions. Which I assume you wish to modify.
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• 2346[23:54:59] <cordess> yes
• 2347[23:55:09] <cordess> exactly
• 2348[23:55:25] <rwp> On that menu the 3rd from the top is "Configure the Logical Volume Manager"
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• 2350[23:55:43] <cordess> if i select an LVM entry, for example LV var nothing happens. the menu gets rendered again.
• 2351[23:56:08] <rwp> Select as in cursor down and hit Enter?
• 2352[23:56:31] <rwp> Ignore those for the moment. cursor up to the very top of the menu and then down to Configure the Logical Volume Manager.
• 2353[23:57:14] <cordess> okay, but this menu says it will writh the existing configuration down to disk and configure LVM. It seems to be like it is not possible to edit the lvm and partition table without writing it to disk.
• 2354[23:57:15] <rwp> The very top entry is Guided Partitioning, just for a reference anchor. unfortuantely all of the menus are Partition Disks.
• 2355[23:57:47] <rwp> Correct. It is not possible to avoid writing to the disk. But if you are going to change it then you can write to the disk again after making your changes.
• 2356[23:58:14] <rwp> The only way to make the setup you wish the very first time for the very first write is to create it using the manual partitioning path.
• 2357[23:58:46] <cordess> rwp, i understand
• 2358[23:58:49] <rwp> But you can write the partition tables. Modify the LVM partitions, which are not in the partition table but in the LVM system, and then save everything again.
• 2359[23:58:55] <cordess> rwp, i now created the LVM table.
• 2360[23:59:52] <cordess> rwp, is there a reason why it is solved that way in Debian installer?
• 2361[23:59:56] <rwp> Usually the root, var, swap, tmp partitions are of fractional sizes of the total up to a max size, and /home gets all of the excess.
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