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• 6[00:00:59] <jsync> lembron, maybe I want to make a server that controls various other servers. What would I use for that?
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• 8[00:01:51] <jsync> See, I made bash scripts that reference configuration files that list my OpenSim servers & their ssh connection data & various other things. I definitely need to consolidate all these terminals & program processes & commands.
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• 13[00:02:32] <jsync> Like, "A Single Server to Rule Them All" sort of thing.
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• 15[00:02:58] <lembron> puppet/chef/ansible/salt - to just name a few?
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• 19[00:04:19] <jsync> A server that I could use to enter a command like, "ls GRID_REGIONS" & it would give me a text based list, & then I could enter a command to control that particular listed Region, then that entered a screen session & I'd be looking at that server terminal - that would be alright & neat to learn how to do.
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• 33[00:19:27] <Ouroboros> somiaj: wow, so for 'ifdown -a' they special-cased to not set link down for inet but not for inet6, what a mess
• 34[00:19:55] <Ouroboros> i don't know why i care though, it makes absolutely no difference to me
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• 37[00:23:18] <lorde> jsync: you should better go with CM system. I'd recommend ansible, it's pretty straight-forward and requires virtually no configuration on client side
• 38[00:24:06] <lorde> jsync: you'd still be able to do your "ls GRID_REGIONS" kind of command, and then you'll be able to ssh into that machine
• 39[00:25:01] <jsync> "CM system"?
• 40[00:25:10] <jsync> I want to code something.
• 41[00:25:16] <lorde> jsync: why do you need screen sessions? As a person with quite extensive bash background, I suggest you don't use bash for some massive program - it eventually becomes impossible to debug and maintain
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• 43[00:25:31] <lorde> jsync: configuration management
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• 45[00:25:48] <lorde> jsync: you'll get your fair share of coding there, don't worry
• 46[00:25:58] <jsync> Uhh, alright: A Brief Synopsis.
• 47[00:26:22] <lorde> jsync: you want me to tell you what Ansible is or?
• 48[00:26:25] *** Quits: Se-bash (~seba@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 49[00:26:32] <jsync> I have OpenSim Servers that run a Grid full of Region Servers. There are a lot of them & they all require a terminal.
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• 51[00:26:43] <jsync> lorde, I overlooked that part. I'll read about it.
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• 53[00:27:35] <Ouroboros> this all sounds way over-complicated
• 54[00:27:42] <lorde> Agreed
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• 58[00:28:28] <jsync> I don't want a different linux distro. I want to code a server that acts like a text based ui for other servers.
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• 60[00:29:12] <megaTherion> jsync: that stuff is existing already, its more or less called vnc
• 61[00:29:17] <megaTherion> well not only vnc, but thats one way to do it ;)
• 62[00:29:25] <jsync> A single server that's configured with lists of other server software locations.
• 63[00:30:43] <lorde> jsync: Ansible is what you're looking for. Trust me, you don't want a massive bash program with remote code execution
• 64[00:30:46] <megaTherion> jsync: bash isnt the right thing, but any other more fully fledged scripting language can do it ... however if you want to access all internals then you'll need to go towards C or kind of
• 65[00:31:06] <megaTherion> jsync: you can access a lot of libraries by `bridging` or bindings but they all have certain limitations
• 66[00:31:06] <lorde> jsync: I actually have to deal with this sh*t at work, and won't wish that for my enemies
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• 68[00:31:44] <megaTherion> jsync: most likely you can combine things like having a backend, a frontend and what not which can all be different languages - depends which language suits best for certain tasks
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• 72[00:32:32] <jsync> Alright: I want to code this, for myself. VNC is not what I'm looking for. That's not even what I'm trying to do.
• 73[00:32:48] <jsync> Alright: Here's a brief synopsis of program necessity.
• 74[00:33:16] <jsync> I have various server programs within a machine, & they could variably be spread across numerous machines.
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• 76[00:33:17] <megaTherion> jsync: well it lets you connect to a server and do something... ;)
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• 79[00:33:50] <megaTherion> ya no need to elaborate all, I think its kind off topic for this particular channel and really a huge topic
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• 81[00:34:55] <jsync> I want to create a custom & specific server to control those specific servers. The server I code should simply act like a terminal text based ui that starts screen sessions & opens control to those other servers, though with simple & easily understood commands, like a terminal text based ui.
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• 83[00:35:21] <megaTherion> terminal text based ui, sounds like ncurses
• 84[00:36:04] <megaTherion> ya you can do that, you can start multiple X11 servers just like you want no problem
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• 90[00:38:49] <Aebian> can someone tell me whats wrong with this command? ``tar -xvf OTDS-1641-LNX6.tar -c /online/iww/corp.knight-industries.org/otds-install/``
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• 92[00:39:23] <megaTherion> Aebian: -c should be -C?
• 93[00:39:24] <lorde> Aebian: the '-c' flag
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• 95[00:39:40] <Aebian> ah lol yes, thanks
• 96[00:40:26] <lorde> jsync: so you want UI specifically? Something reminiscent of mc and such?
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• 98[00:42:55] <expert975> I'm planning on setting up LVM on LUKS on RAID. Any tips?
• 99[00:43:04] <megaTherion> expert975: dont
• 100[00:43:12] <megaTherion> LVM is so 90s
• 101[00:43:13] <Ouroboros> ^^ this
• 102[00:43:24] <lorde> I don't agree
• 103[00:43:28] <megaTherion> that its not 1990
• 104[00:43:29] <megaTherion> ?
• 105[00:43:36] <lorde> I'd go for LUKS on LVM instead
• 106[00:43:50] <megaTherion> I'd just use anything else except LVM
• 107[00:43:59] <lorde> Why? LVM is great
• 108[00:44:00] <Ouroboros> he meant, 'i don't agree, lvm is so 80s' :P
• 109[00:44:07] <jsync> Maybe I want to learn ncurses. Thanks, megaTherion.
• 110[00:44:08] <megaTherion> great for people stuck to the 90s
• 111[00:44:19] <megaTherion> ok 80s, fine ;)
• 112[00:44:33] <Ouroboros> i never understood the use case for lvm, even back then
• 113[00:44:46] <lorde> So, what do the cool kids use nowadays?
• 114[00:44:56] <megaTherion> well I think there were good reasons but LVM didnt evolve much and its kind of .... awkward
• 115[00:44:58] <Ouroboros> but i have seen one million reports of people breaking their lvm somehow
• 116[00:45:06] <megaTherion> the setup is awkward, the management is awkward, the CLI is awkward - just everything
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• 118[00:45:16] <megaTherion> lorde: probably ZFS since 2006
• 119[00:45:32] <lorde> Well, you chose a wrong OS for that, I'm afraid
• 120[00:45:35] <megaTherion> Ouroboros: I liked evms for a while, it seemed to be a great alternative but somehow it was discarded
• 121[00:45:41] <megaTherion> lorde: indeed
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• 123[00:46:04] <Ouroboros> lorde: zfs or just don't do whatever you were going to do
• 124[00:46:09] <megaTherion> exacly
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• 126[00:46:29] <lorde> You two are weird
• 127[00:46:57] <megaTherion> lorde: you really would chose LVM on a setup today?
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• 129[00:47:11] <Ouroboros> i try not to use a feature just because it happens to exist :P
• 130[00:47:13] <lorde> megaTherion: yes, I have, and I would
• 131[00:47:41] <megaTherion> lorde: why so?
• 132[00:47:51] <lorde> megaTherion: it's rock-solid and very straight-forward, and flexible too, why would I not use it?
• 133[00:48:14] <megaTherion> I guess it is solid, but absolutly not straight forward at least not to me
• 134[00:48:22] <Ouroboros> lorde: so what is one example use case?
• 135[00:48:43] <megaTherion> and I think the thin snapshots were somehow limited too? Im not so fond of it
• 136[00:48:44] <lorde> Ouroboros: backups using snapshots
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• 138[00:49:06] <lorde> Ouroboros: not caring about which sizes of your hard drives
• 139[00:49:09] <megaTherion> snapshots are quite expensive on LVM?
• 140[00:49:29] <lorde> Ouroboros: the ability to use it as a storage driver for KVM
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• 142[00:49:44] <Ouroboros> ok, stop :P
• 143[00:50:14] <lorde> megaTherion: haven't used snapshots in very IO-intensive environment, can't say
• 144[00:50:22] <Ouroboros> just install zfs on top of ceph on top of zfs, done
• 145[00:50:38] <Ouroboros> add aditional layers of zfs and ceph as necessary
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• 147[00:51:06] <lorde> Ouroboros: yeah, that setup is so much more straight-forward, for sure
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• 149[00:51:41] <lorde> Ouroboros: especially the part with getting ZFS going on Linux (haven't done that myself, but heard that it's a pain)
• 150[00:51:58] <Ouroboros> lorde: i think zfs per se is relatively straightforward these days, i am going to try it soon
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• 152[00:52:11] <megaTherion> lorde: ZFS is easy on Linux, as long as you dont plan to boot from it *shrugs*
• 153[00:52:19] <Ouroboros> yes, if you want to put / or /boot on it, it can be a lot more work
• 154[00:52:34] <megaTherion> but its not very efficient and yeah its weak... Linux and ZFS didnt play well together
• 155[00:53:06] <megaTherion> and somehow btrfs aint a good choice either
• 156[00:53:08] <Ouroboros> no, the issue is that they have to rewrite a lot of it
• 157[00:53:26] <Ouroboros> and, well, unpaid developers and so on :P
• 158[00:53:27] <lorde> Well, there's also btrfs, but after I read scary stuff about it breaking all the time, I wouldn't even put it on my home machine
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• 160[00:53:42] <Ouroboros> zfs also had a major regression recently, data was lost
• 161[00:53:47] <megaTherion> ya btrfs is like butter... I also heard from very evil things if you go for a serious raid
• 162[00:53:54] <megaTherion> Ouroboros: not on BSD?
• 163[00:53:59] <megaTherion> Ouroboros: there isnt the ZFS anymore
• 164[00:54:02] <Ouroboros> no, only ZoL
• 165[00:54:04] <megaTherion> and yes ZoL is crap
• 166[00:54:53] <Ouroboros> there still is 'the ZFS', on solaris, same as it always was
• 167[00:55:14] <lorde> So enterprise, much Oracle
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• 170[00:56:33] <lorde> Anyway, the original guy, who asked the question: there's a really good article on Arch Wiki on the topic, and there's a fantastic LVM administrator guide from Red Hat, read up all that and decide for yourself
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• 173[00:57:22] <lorde> It's going to be basically the same on Debian since LVM and LUKS are distro-independent technologies
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• 177[00:58:30] <expert975> lorde: There's actually too much on the Arch wiki on the topic... I've been reading for 3 days!
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• 179[00:59:03] <lorde> expert975: yeah, I know. My strong suggestion would be to use LUKS on top of logical volumes
• 180[00:59:05] *** Quits: hgfd123 (~hgfd123@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 181[00:59:13] <expert975> lorde: Why?
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• 183[00:59:52] <heston> hello guys, how should I got about troubleshooting my thinkpad that was stuck in standby/hiberation according to the LEDs, it wouldnt wake up and debian is configured to never go into standby or hibernation. Thinkpad t500 on debian stretch
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• 185[01:01:07] <lorde> expert975: Lesser chance that you break something; if you use encryption on physical block devices, in case if something wrong with LUKS, you lose the whole LVM volume group, and, logically, all LV's in that volume group
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• 188[01:02:45] <expert975> lorde: what could go wrong with LUKS?
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• 190[01:03:04] <lorde> expert975: LUKS basically puts another abstraction layer in this chain "physical device => ^^ insert LUKS here^^ = > physical volume => volume group => logical volume"
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• 192[01:03:20] <lorde> expert975: That just seems logically wrong to me, personally
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• 195[01:04:01] <pingfloyd> I'd do it the other way around
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• 197[01:04:05] <pingfloyd> lvm over luks
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• 201[01:04:36] <lorde> expert975: you basically have to remember/set up like "Okay, this is the password for hard drive A", instead of "Okay, this is the password for my /home partition"
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• 207[01:05:30] <pingfloyd> just keep /boot and ESP outside the luks volumes
• 208[01:05:35] <expert975> lorde: I'm using LVM so I can type only one password at boot
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• 210[01:05:48] <expert975> pingfloyd: I want to encrypt /boot
• 211[01:05:53] <pingfloyd> expert975: that's how I do it to
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• 215[01:07:51] <pingfloyd> there's ways to encrypt boot. You'll have mess with the initramfs and few other things, but what I don't like about that is it can lead to more catch 22 situations
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• 220[01:10:33] <expert975> pingfloyd: I see...
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• 226[01:11:58] <expert975> pingfloyd: There are so many options and ways to do it, one could easily get lost
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• 228[01:12:51] <lorde> expert975: I'd just go with ecryptfs if at all possible, but many people don't like it
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• 231[01:14:25] <expert975> lorde: I was thinking on using dm-crypt
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• 238[01:17:00] <lorde> expert975: LUKS is an extension for dm-crypt, if I'm not mistaken
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• 243[01:18:00] <expert975> lorde: Yes. I belive it is
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• 245[01:21:45] <Ouroboros> luks is a way to store key and cipher information for dm-crypt
• 246[01:21:53] <Ouroboros> the underlying operation is exactly the same
• 247[01:22:22] <Ouroboros> (at least for luks1, i am not sure exactly what luks2 added)
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• 250[01:23:55] <Ouroboros> be sure to back up the luks header
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• 255[01:24:26] <expert975> Ouroboros: Where should I keep it?
• 256[01:24:26] <Ouroboros> and don't bother with encrypting /boot, as we discusssed, it is basically pointless right now
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• 258[01:24:40] <Ouroboros> expert975: anywhere you want, it is not confidential
• 259[01:24:48] <expert975> Ouroboros: What about kernel tempering?
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• 261[01:25:28] <Ouroboros> you can write it to some other place on the drive or you can store it as either a binary or a text file
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• 264[01:26:01] <Ouroboros> have you read the luks faq?
• 265[01:26:17] <Ouroboros> err, cryptsetup faq
• 266[01:26:25] <expert975> Ouroboros: On the Arch wiki?
• 267[01:26:35] <Ouroboros> no, just duckduck cryptsetup faq
• 268[01:26:53] <Ouroboros> you may need to read it on archive.org if gitlab is still broken
• 269[01:27:10] <expert975> Ouroboros: I'll give it a searx
• 270[01:27:30] <Ouroboros> it covers many many issues and pitfalls
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• 272[01:27:55] <lorde> I like how Ouroboros uses 'duckduck' instead of 'google'. That's class, man :)
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• 274[01:28:18] <Ouroboros> no, it's streets ahead :P
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• 281[01:33:32] <Ouroboros> expert975: if you really want to prevent tampering, then you need to research uefi|luks2|dm-integrity|dm-verity, i honestly don't have much of an idea about those things
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• 284[01:34:35] <Ouroboros> expert975: and what is the actual attack scenario?
• 285[01:36:44] <expert975> Ouroboros: search and seizure
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• 287[01:37:07] <expert975> Ouroboros: And the maid
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• 290[01:38:23] <Ouroboros> if they ever have the physical hardware, then it is over, consider it lost
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• 292[01:38:33] <Ouroboros> as for the maid, caesar cipher is probably good enough
• 293[01:38:47] <expert975> Ouroboros: haha
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• 295[01:39:21] <expert975> Ouroboros: why do you say them having the hardware it's lost?
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• 297[01:39:39] <Ouroboros> because they can modify anything
• 298[01:39:41] <Javabean> they can just make a copy and crack it in parallel
• 299[01:39:56] <Ouroboros> you basically cannot prevent tampering if they have the hardware
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• 301[01:40:22] <expert975> Javabean: give them a 4096 bit
• 302[01:40:45] <Ouroboros> i am not saying that the data is necessarily compromised, i am saying that you cannot use the hardware anymore
• 303[01:41:03] <lorde> I'd really like to see a demonstration of cracking of something encrypted with AES-256
• 304[01:41:04] <Javabean> ... /me points to ASIC miners for *coin
• 305[01:41:05] <expert975> Ouroboros: that sounds good enough
• 306[01:42:06] <Ouroboros> regarding authentication, i am not sure whether it is possible to do it in a way that does not reveal the secret to whoever posseses the hardware
• 307[01:42:07] <expert975> lorde: We all do
• 308[01:42:13] <Ouroboros> does anyone know, is that a thing?
• 309[01:43:12] <expert975> Ouroboros: A keyboard could have a hardware keylogger, the key in a USB could be read by the sistem... is that what you mean?
• 310[01:43:42] <Ouroboros> for the previous thing, yes
• 311[01:43:49] <patterson> If you are sitting at the machine you generally own it
• 312[01:44:03] <whislock> Physical access is god.
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• 316[01:44:49] <Ouroboros> i am now asking, is there a way that authentication can be done in a mutually oblivious way?
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• 318[01:45:23] <Ouroboros> i am thinking about something like millionaire's problem, but it is not exactly that, i don't think
• 319[01:45:35] <expert975> Ouroboros: how about having the bootloader on a USB drive?
• 320[01:45:52] <patterson> security tokens
• 321[01:46:40] <Javabean> depends upon an unsecured source
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• 323[01:47:41] <Ouroboros> actually, neverming, i am thinking complete nonsense
• 324[01:49:01] <jsync> ncurses actually is a library file of particular terminal text formatting. It's not got much of a thing to do with programming a server.
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• 327[01:49:41] <Ouroboros> because i want not "what they have" but "who they are", and how could you ever validate that?
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• 330[01:50:04] <expert975> Ouroboros: The hardware take in the key. So for someone with access to the hardware not tot have access to the data, the hardware would have to be a perfect black box, with a well defined access interface.
• 331[01:50:12] <patterson> CapIA thing you know, a thing you have and something borrowed
• 332[01:50:17] <jsync> #include ncurses.h is convenient, though doesn't answer my question.
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• 334[01:50:56] <expert975> Ouroboros:* The hardware takes
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• 341[01:54:12] <expert975> Ouroboros: So someone with access to the hardware could get the key by freezing the RAM and dumping its contents on another machine
• 342[01:54:50] <jsync> For an example about my quandry: OpenSim servers actually are coded in C#. That's a programming language. Upon compiling the software, OpenSim.exe files actually are created. They require mono to run the software. That's not really "Debian Programming", which is why I asked, "What programming language should I use to make a server that calls & attaches screen sessions, detaches those sessions, & has other features like ability to inclu
• 343[01:54:54] <expert975> Ouroboros: Maybe unless the machine is inside a safe
• 344[01:55:40] <patterson> Removable drives that get locked up every day
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• 346[01:56:05] <expert975> patterson: please elaborate
• 347[01:56:31] <patterson> Everybody walking around in pairs watching each other
• 348[01:56:35] <jsync> I feel like I might as well ask, "How do I make a program in debian?" I just feel like it's difficult to express my question to the irc channel of users.
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• 351[01:57:02] <Ouroboros> or just don't have any secrets, it is much easier and healthier :P
• 352[01:57:06] <jsync> I'm not trying to be rude. It's just difficult to explain my question I think.
• 353[01:57:35] <Ouroboros> patterson: wouldn't you need at least triple person redundancy?
• 354[01:57:50] <patterson> It never ends, Turtles all the way down
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• 356[01:58:04] <Ouroboros> a b-tree of turtles
• 357[01:58:17] <Ouroboros> bttrfs
• 358[01:58:40] <patterson> Nice conversation. Perhaps I should have scrolled up to understand the topic.
• 359[01:58:56] <expert975> jsync: You could use the C programming language
• 360[01:58:58] <Ouroboros> why bother
• 361[01:59:05] <expert975> jsavalle: There's also Java
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• 366[02:00:12] <jsync> expert975, right. What's a simple program that opens a terminal & waits for commands that's written in C? That way I could start learning of example while I'm coding this program.
• 367[02:00:18] <Ouroboros> expert975: the point is, do the most basic thing that you understand and that is known to 'work', don't worry about hypothetical 'what if' scenarios, there are always more of those
• 368[02:00:44] <patterson> What are you trying to do
• 369[02:00:51] <patterson> never mind how
• 370[02:00:54] <jsync> patterson, me?
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• 372[02:01:15] <patterson> yes
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• 376[02:01:38] <patterson> Never mind. Scrolling up
• 377[02:02:17] <Ouroboros> expert975: i.e. the question should be 'how do i protect this specific piece of data from this specific attack in this specific situation for this specific duration?'
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• 381[02:02:53] <jsync> Cool. I have a series of server programs for OpenSim, & a Virtual World Grid. There are a lot of servers within the series of server programs. They compile OpenSim.exe files (I want debian based programs, though that's aside of the point, sort of.) I want to make a program that opens a terminal & can start screen sessions to control those servers. I want my program to have a configuration file that makes that task easy.
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• 383[02:03:35] <Ouroboros> jsync: why do you need to control these servers in an interactive way if there are so many of them?
• 384[02:03:49] <expert975> jsync: Try this one: replaced-url
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• 387[02:05:01] <jsync> When I run OpenSim.exe, I do that in a terminal. When the region starts, the terminal has a prompt that suggests (Region_Name)$. I want to keep all of those within organized screen sessions via my program.
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• 390[02:07:00] <expert975> jsync: does 'screen' do what you want?
• 391[02:07:13] <Ouroboros> but why? those servers could retrieve Region_Name programmatically
• 392[02:07:54] <jsync> As well, I want my program to stay within the terminal. I essentially want to make a program that opens the terminal & can listen to simple commands that open screen sessions for a particular Region, for an example. Then I can enter the command specific to that Region.
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• 395[02:10:30] <jsync> It would be cool to start particular bash scripts with my program that runs within the terminal. I made various bash scripts that use the dialog functions.
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• 397[02:12:13] <expert975> jsync: are you trying to start many instances of the application and tell each of them a different message programatically?
• 398[02:12:18] <jsync> The problem with that bundle of bash scripts schema was that I can't open a terminal & run mono OpenSim.exe, because it's like sending a bird off to flight. I can't access that terminal anymore with the bash scripts. That's why I thought "screen".
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• 407[02:14:14] <jsync> expert975, What I need to do is really more simple than that. I need to open a terminal & run mono OpenSim.exe, & variably access that terminal again & command it to "quit", so the region server stops & then to close that terminal session.
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• 410[02:15:55] <expert975> jsync: and why can't you do that?
• 411[02:16:05] <jsync> In bash, I can run gnome-terminal - e "bash -c 'cd /filepath/to/software; mono OpenSim.exe;'", though I've sent off the terminal. I can't get to that terminal again. That's the problem. It's sending a little bird off to flight, & never talking to it again unless I have a keyboard & mouse & monitor.
• 412[02:17:23] <expert975> jsync: What if you simple run "cd /filepath/to/software; mono OpenSim.exe;" on the terminal?
• 413[02:17:40] <jsync> That's why I thought, "Alright, make a program that opens a terminal & organizes all my connection data, so that I can use simple commands to access a particular Region server in a screen session, type 'quit', & then detach that screen session."
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• 419[02:20:53] <expert975> jsync: Do you want to send commands to a program that is running inside a screen session?
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• 423[02:24:16] <jsync> Wait. I'll try & simplify this.
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• 427[02:27:37] <jsync> Alright. I made a configuration file of variable values for my bash script bundle. The scope of the bash script bundle includes 3 configuration files: bundle-grids, bundle-regions, & bundle configs. A partially completed bundle-regions config consists of 300+ lines of Region_Cluster#_Names & Region#_C#_Names. That's why I want to make a program for managing all of that. My hands are tired at the thought of cd directory/to/opensim/serve
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• 429[02:29:15] <jsync> & why is there not a feature to identify a particular open terminal session?! That seems a vast oversight of an obvious necessity.
• 430[02:30:22] <jsync> I mean, bash function of gnome-terminal -e is useless. It's like, you can do that one time, though you're not really controlling anything. That terminal completes its' process & it's gone after the function executes. It's pointless to do that in a program.
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• 432[02:30:48] <wr> need to use some RDP on debian to do a test, what would be best? freerdp? other?
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• 434[02:31:18] <abrotman> client or server?
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• 440[02:32:36] <jsync> gnome-terminal -e seems like more of a security risk than any sort of useful function if there's not a means of accessing & monitoring what that terminal is doing after gnome-terminal -e gets called out of a program or script.
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• 443[02:35:00] <jsync> At this point it seems like, if I asked "How do I make a gui?", that would be more easily understood. It seems reasonable that a gui could have a config file that referenced a bunch of software paths & started a screen session to control those softwares with the click of a button. I just wanted to keep my ui lightweight.
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• 446[02:35:49] <expert975> jsync: could you demonstrate what you are trying to do?
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• 452[02:43:14] <jsync> expert975, look at this bash script. That's a single menu navigation level of a vast project that I need to organize with an organization program, like this bash script starts to cope with. replaced-url
• 453[02:43:36] <jsync> Copy & Paste & chmod u+x & run that bash script in a terminal.
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• 455[02:44:53] <jsync> That's about managing servers for a Virtual World software. I have a bunch of regions & the Virtual World is vast. I need to ease the management of my Virtual World servers.
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• 457[02:46:09] <sveta2> [debian stable] how do I retrieve a list of packages from a computer to install exactly the same (but 64bit, not 32bit) on a new computer? there's a 32bit debian installed first, and I would like to reinstall with 64bit same packages
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• 463[02:47:44] <expert975> sveta2: 'dpkg --list' shows installed packages
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• 465[02:48:46] <sveta2> expert975: that has ':i386' next to some. this is 32bit, correct? I would like to install 64bit on the new install so if this is the case then it would not work
• 466[02:49:05] <sveta2> expert975: for example, 'zlib1g:i386'
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• 469[02:49:25] <expert975> sveta2: Yes, i386 is 32bit
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• 471[02:50:02] <sveta2> expert975: is there a way to list just the package names, so that these packages may be added to the new install?
• 472[02:50:07] <jsync> sveta2, there's probably not an automatic translation service. You'd need to go through your list & reference if each of those softwares has a 64bit equivalent.
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• 475[02:52:43] <expert975> sveta2: some packages might not be available on the amd64 architecture
• 476[02:52:54] <sveta2> jsync: does it make sense to "dpkg --get-selections >/backup/package-selections" on old install, then "aptitude install $(cat /backup/package-selections | awk '{print $1}')" on the new install?
• 477[02:53:18] <sveta2> I can just remove i386 lines from the list and install them one by one by hand ... ?
• 478[02:53:58] <expert975> sveta2: I would suggest installing each package as necessity arrives
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• 482[02:54:49] <sveta2> expert975: ok
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• 494[03:09:13] <jsync> sveta2, what I do to keep track of my installed packages between distributions is I go to /var/cache/apt/archives & I organize those files. Use your list & copy all those files, do your fresh install & reinstall software as necessary.
• 495[03:10:33] <jsync> So expert975, does the scope of that organization project sort of make sense?
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• 500[03:13:16] <mgranger> !debian-next
• 501[03:13:16] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
• 502[03:13:22] <mgranger> exit
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• 509[03:21:30] <Ouroboros> great factoid
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• 536[03:40:51] <Sveta> where can i download an installation image of debian 7?
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• 550[03:51:05] <r3> Sveta: isn't it here? replaced-url
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• 562[04:05:48] <Sveta> actually I think I found replaced-url
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• 565[04:09:33] <wr> on remmina install via apt-get install remmina i get this msg replaced-url
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• 588[04:28:42] <r3> Re-running apt-get and explicitly including the problematic dependency in the command line should give you a better idea of where the issue is
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• 591[04:31:09] <r3> also look at apt-get install -f ... read the man page for it and use at your discretion, but it will attempt to correct a system with broken dependencies in place
• 592[04:31:49] <r3> also maybe try '...aptitude install xxx...'
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• 622[05:01:59] <Gobo708> Hi All,
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• 624[05:03:05] <Gobo708> Simple issue I think... user is not in sudoers. I have done "sudo adduser myuser sudo" from root. Logged out, and logged back in and it still says my user is not in the sudoers.
• 625[05:04:24] <jim> Gobo708, what happens if you try groups?
• 626[05:04:55] <Gobo708> doesnt list sudo in the groups, but if I try to add to sudo again, it says I am already in the sudo group
• 627[05:05:09] <Gobo708> Fresh install of 9.x
• 628[05:05:23] <jim> which user did you log out and back in?
• 629[05:05:34] <Gobo708> the user that I added to the group
• 630[05:05:37] <Ouroboros> don't you need to do visudo or whatever?
• 631[05:05:38] <jim> you mean debian?
• 632[05:05:47] <Gobo708> yeah
• 633[05:05:50] <Gobo708> debian
• 634[05:05:55] <Ouroboros> or is that not a thing anymore
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• 636[05:06:05] <Gobo708> I am trying to do this with groups, without adding a specific user entry in visudo
• 637[05:06:13] <Ouroboros> ah
• 638[05:06:17] <jim> ok, debian doesn't install sudo by default... could it be it's not installed?
• 639[05:06:24] <Gobo708> because... user groups make sense
• 640[05:06:55] <Gobo708> probably adding my user to sudo group is bad, but still.. now im curious why its not working
• 641[05:06:56] <Ouroboros> i just solved the whole problem by not using sudo in the first place
• 642[05:07:01] <Gobo708> its just a vm for kubernetes
• 643[05:07:07] <jim> do you have a file /etc/sudoers?
• 644[05:07:53] <Gobo708> yeah
• 645[05:07:56] <Gobo708> I have that file
• 646[05:08:25] <jim> Gobo708, could you run... dpkg -s sudo | grep -i status
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• 649[05:09:04] <Gobo708> Status, Ok installed
• 650[05:09:33] <wr> Gobo708, run visudo and add user
• 651[05:09:52] <Gobo708> wr as a workaround?
• 652[05:10:06] <jim> ok, you have sudo installed... you may want to look at the output of dpkg -s sudo to see an example of what it prints
• 653[05:10:28] <wr> Gobo708, replaced-url
• 654[05:10:44] <Gobo708> I realise I can add my user direclty to sudoers
• 655[05:10:46] <Gobo708> Just wanting GROUPS
• 656[05:11:10] <Gobo708> Am I donig something silly?
• 657[05:11:45] <jim> I get that... now, I'm curious... you said before you logged out and back in... which user did you do that to?
• 658[05:12:07] <Gobo708> my Non root user
• 659[05:12:21] <Gobo708> maybe restart?
• 660[05:12:31] <Gobo708> in case it didnt log out properly?
• 661[05:13:02] <jim> ok, well that will probably do it... but first, how exactly did you log out?
• 662[05:13:16] <Gobo708> desktop logout button
• 663[05:13:24] <Gobo708> shutdown button, logout user.. debian desktop
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• 666[05:13:43] <jim> ok, which took you to the graphical login screen?
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• 668[05:13:57] <Gobo708> yeah
• 669[05:14:11] <Gobo708> and looked like a fresh login
• 670[05:14:18] <Gobo708> no apps running etc
• 671[05:14:46] <Gobo708> restarting now, so will see if this works
• 672[05:15:20] <Gobo708> hmm ok thats it
• 673[05:15:25] <jim> ok... can you look at the file /etc/group, and see where it says sudo
• 674[05:15:26] <Gobo708> my logout didnt logout
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• 676[05:16:41] <Ouroboros> why would logging out even be necessary?
• 677[05:16:53] <Gobo708> restart user session to grab group?
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• 681[05:17:01] <Gobo708> listing groups for the user now shows sudo
• 682[05:17:05] <Gobo708> im in that file
• 683[05:17:05] <jim> Ouroboros, long standing situation with groups...
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• 685[05:17:12] <Ouroboros> ah
• 686[05:17:24] <jim> Ouroboros, gotta log out and log back in to see the change
• 687[05:17:26] <Gobo708> ok, my user is listed by sudo in that file now
• 688[05:17:47] <Gobo708> after reboot
• 689[05:17:54] <jim> ok, and groups shows you're in sudo?
• 690[05:18:01] <Gobo708> yes
• 691[05:18:12] <Gobo708> sudo:x:27:myuser
• 692[05:18:32] <jim> (shouldn't have to restart your whole machine, but ok, you got in the group
• 693[05:18:36] <Gobo708> yeah
• 694[05:18:37] <jim> )
• 695[05:18:55] <Gobo708> shame, cause that will make people hack visudo
• 696[05:18:58] <Ouroboros> jim: aren't permissions handled by the kernel, so why would user shell environment matter?
• 697[05:19:30] * Javabean hates sudo, glad its not installed by default
• 698[05:19:41] <Gobo708> it was installed by default
• 699[05:19:46] <Gobo708> I didnt have to install it
• 700[05:19:46] <jim> I never looked into it, so I dunno... but it's been ongoing for decades
• 701[05:20:21] <Gobo708> handled by kernel or not, you would still have to feed it that information, and it gets it from groups, which doesnt get updated until fresh login?
• 702[05:20:27] <Ouroboros> either you are a sudo user or you are not, there is no between
• 703[05:21:04] <Ouroboros> Gobo708: who is 'you' in that statement?
• 704[05:21:07] <Gobo708> comes down to what adduser does then?
• 705[05:21:17] <jim> Ouroboros, well they added a group you can be added to (the sudo group)
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• 707[05:22:20] <jim> Gobo708, if you find out why you didn't log out fully, I'd be curious to know
• 708[05:22:24] <Gobo708> Ouroboros, basically, I ran adduser..... "sudo adduser myuser sudo", so if adduser didnt do its job properly, everything after that which SHOULD be.... is moot
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• 710[05:22:58] <Ouroboros> Gobo708: no, i understand, i am asking who is the 'you' that feeds /etc/group to the kernel?
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• 712[05:23:29] <Ouroboros> anyway, i am rapidly losing interest :P
• 713[05:23:55] <Gobo708> Thats probably the wrong thing to say, but I read with adduser that a logout is required. So you... being your user, completing the steps.
• 714[05:23:57] <jim> well /etc/group is part of another thing that's been around for decades, the shadow password suite
• 715[05:24:09] <Ouroboros> so does iproute replace most (all?) of iptables functionality? do they access the same kernel mechanisms?
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• 717[05:24:42] <Gobo708> jim, thanks for your time ;)
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• 720[05:25:38] <jim> before that collection of programs, the /etc/passwd file would contain the passwords, and this is a world readable file... so they moved the passwords to /etc/shadow, which is much less permissive
• 721[05:27:11] <jim> Ouroboros, no. iproute2 does not replace iptables, it replaces the old ifconfig and route programs
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• 723[05:28:53] <Ouroboros> well, it appears to have a lot of overlapping functionality
• 724[05:29:36] <jim> iptables itself is an IP filter
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• 726[05:30:04] <jim> you can make a script that builds iptalbes rules
• 727[05:30:33] <Gobo708> jim, btw, I did snapshot the instance moments before with the groups, if there was anything worth testing
• 728[05:30:39] <Gobo708> jim, I can rollback
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• 730[05:32:30] <Ouroboros> jim: i mean that at least some basic iptables rules can be rewritten using 'ip route' and 'ip rule', but i guess that iproute does not have extensive filtering or state
• 731[05:32:40] <Ouroboros> probably this will be added in the next release :P
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• 743[05:38:16] <Ouroboros> but not sure why i said 'most' above, let's go with 'a very small subset'
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• 745[05:39:02] <Ouroboros> still, perhaps there are some use cases, perhaps it is more efficient
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• 759[05:50:35] <melissa666> in man page for 'ip', it says "address LLADDR | broadcast LLADDR" in options, but when I do `sudo ip link add wlp2s0 address 172.27.0.3` I get "invalid lladdr" ... what am I doing wrong?
• 760[05:50:46] <melissa666> what is lladdr? is it not ip address?
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• 781[06:11:48] <Ouroboros> melissa666: ip link is for MAC, not IP
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• 783[06:12:22] <Ouroboros> LLADDR means link-local address, i.e. MAC address
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• 789[06:13:20] <melissa666> oh, I see lol -- I really have very little experience with this and am trying to learn networking again :)
• 790[06:13:26] <melissa666> thanks
• 791[06:13:27] <Ouroboros> what you probably wanted is 'ip -4 address add 172.27.0.3 dev wlp2s0'
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• 793[06:14:18] <melissa666> Ouroboros, yep, `ip address add` is what I needed. thanks again
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• 797[06:15:29] <Ouroboros> i am having to learn this myself right now because i believe that last time i used 'route' and friends
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• 800[06:16:43] <Ouroboros> also, i am just going to come right out and say it: the documentation sort of sucks
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• 805[06:17:37] <Ouroboros> e.g. even things like 'address' vs 'addr', 'delete' vs 'del' are not used consistently
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• 808[06:18:25] <Ouroboros> the comand prototypes at the top of the manpages do not match the descriptions etc
• 809[06:19:14] <Ouroboros> melissa666: oops, one minor correction: 'ip -4 address add 172.27.0.3/32 dev wlp2s0'
• 810[06:19:40] <Ouroboros> for 'add' it may not matter, but for 'del' you will get a warning
• 811[06:20:20] <Ouroboros> better to use explicit prefix length to avoid those issues
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• 813[06:20:32] <melissa666> Ouroboros, yeah it's been confusing to me ... years back (like 15 years ago) when I started using Linux, I messed around with networking a lot more, but tools were a lot different then (ifconfig, route, etc) and for years I just have used network-manager and had really simple network setups at home
• 814[06:20:55] <Ouroboros> it is mostly all the same functionality
• 815[06:21:11] <Ouroboros> i am not sure how much has changed under the hood in the kernel
• 816[06:21:39] <Ouroboros> however, ipv6 is slightly different, and i am having to learn that too
• 817[06:21:52] <Ouroboros> decided that it was finally time
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• 819[06:22:38] <Ouroboros> but i definitely stay away from network-manager, and i am starting to think that ifupdown and /e/n/i are crap too
• 820[06:23:06] <Ouroboros> i have finally managed to beat the latter into submission, but it was not trivial
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• 823[06:26:19] <melissa666> i think network-manager is great for the 95% of users who just need to connect to wifi at home/coffee-land/work/etc ... but yeah, every time I've tried to set up even simple network configs, it's a mess, and automatically changes things behind my back etc ... I just wish there was cleaner separation between different mechanisms for network config
• 824[06:26:44] <annadane> coffee-land could be anywhere
• 825[06:26:59] <Dagger> `ip` is happy with any unique prefix of its commands, so `ip address`, `ip addr`, `ip ad`, `ip a` etc are all the same thing
• 826[06:27:06] <melissa666> annadane, indeed ... maybe I just should have said coffee-land and left the others out lol
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• 830[06:27:23] <Dagger> but yeah, the manpages do frequently miss out some flags etc :/
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• 832[06:27:37] <Ouroboros> it's a work in progress :P
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• 834[06:27:52] <Ouroboros> at least iproute actually works properly, unlike ifupdown
• 835[06:28:53] <annadane> i wonder how BSD network tools are just compared to "linux", they tend to do at least documentation correctly
• 836[06:29:03] <annadane> -just
• 837[06:29:16] <Ouroboros> they are cleaner, from what i remember
• 838[06:29:24] * annadane still needs to figure out how to get FreeBSD up and running
• 839[06:29:49] <Ouroboros> iptables vs ipf is a common comparison, i guess
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• 844[06:30:36] <annadane> it seems fairly simple i just don't want to have to unlearn everything from debian and translate it into BSD-ese
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• 848[06:31:37] <Ouroboros> well, the '*nix' part is mostly the same, it is almost like a different distro
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• 850[06:32:11] <Ouroboros> obviously, where different tools are available, it is quite different
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• 853[06:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1548
• 854[06:34:41] <Ouroboros> melissa666: let me know if you encounter any other issues, while i still remember what i am doing
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• 858[06:36:37] <Ouroboros> i do like how many things have been streamlined, in part because of ipv6
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• 860[06:37:30] <Ouroboros> like consistent prefix lengths, address and route types, multiple addresses instead of virtual interfaces, etc
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• 862[06:38:50] <Ouroboros> or interface aliases, whichever
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• 865[06:43:28] <annadane> i do really like the BSDs as a concept
• 866[06:43:32] <annadane> anyway, off topic
• 867[06:44:07] <Ouroboros> shrug, i like solaris, the one before it went full oracle
• 868[06:44:50] <annadane> isn't TrueOS a fork of that?
• 869[06:44:52] <Ouroboros> my file server still runs that, it is quite nice
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• 871[06:45:08] <Ouroboros> i have no idea, there were 101 forks and derivatives
• 872[06:45:48] <Ouroboros> i guess solaris is still free for personal use? but yeah, off topic
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• 889[07:13:20] <annadane> Client: HexChat 2.14.1 • OS: Debian buster/sid • CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6400 CPU @ 2.70GHz (1.93GHz) • Memory: Physical: 7.6 GiB Total (6.7 GiB Free) Swap: 7.8 GiB Total (7.8 GiB Free) • Storage: 453.3 GB / 1.4 TB (993.3 GB Free) • VGA: NVIDIA Corporation GK208 [GeForce GT 730] @ Intel Corporation Skylake Host Bridge/DRAM Registers • Uptime: 3h 6m 52s
• 890[07:13:24] <annadane> err
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• 892[07:13:28] <annadane> sorry lol
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• 901[07:20:38] <heston> showing off that uptime huh
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• 903[07:20:50] <asarch> How do you start the graphic failsafe version in stable?
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• 905[07:21:21] <annadane> i'm not familiar with any graphic failsafe versions
• 906[07:22:30] <RoyK> annadane: nah - don't think there is one
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• 909[07:23:36] <heston> asarch, are you not able to boot to a terminal?
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• 912[07:29:32] <melissa666> I am trying to set up an ad-hoc network (using batman-adv). When I try to set it up with `sudo iwconfig wlan0 mode ad-hoc essid myessid ap 02:12:34:56:78 channel 8`, it doesn't give any errors, but it just ignores my AP cell settings and picks one randomly. Any ideas what I'm doing wrong? Or does this just mean my card doesn't support setting the ap?
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• 923[07:39:39] <annadane> asarch, it depends on what your problem is? maybe if you describe it we can help you
• 924[07:39:44] <annadane> can you not access a GUI?
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• 933[07:53:05] <asarch> Yeah, there used to be an option "failsafe" with old versions of X11 where you could start your own favorite window manager by hand
• 934[07:53:10] <asarch> For example, twm annadane
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• 936[07:53:34] <annadane> oh. no idea
• 937[07:53:42] <asarch> Since I'm learning Lisp, I am interested in the stumpwm window manager
• 938[07:53:55] <asarch> It fails but I don't know why
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• 941[07:54:17] <asarch> I would like to start it manually to see its output to see why it is failing
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• 943[07:54:32] <asarch> Oh :-(
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• 1013[08:37:50] <akd> I have a bash script that load env with . $(getMyEnv). How can I run this script using NodeJS and get my env into process.env ?
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• 1015[08:41:01] <kopper> #nodejs could help you, maybe
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• 1026[08:51:31] <UniFreak> Hello, I'm trying to get a php-fpm docker image running, but when building it, and running `apt-get -y install libfreetype6-dev`, an dependency error happens like this: replaced-url
• 1027[08:52:00] *** Quits: Johann (~cisswit@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 1028[08:52:22] <UniFreak> I searched the web , but only found a related answer regards to libpng12-dev here replaced-url
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• 1030[08:54:58] <UniFreak> The vm is
• 1031[08:55:00] <UniFreak> Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch)
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• 1036[09:03:10] <nkuttler> for starters, docker isn't a vm..
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• 1038[09:03:35] <nkuttler> where is your dockerfile?
• 1039[09:03:48] <nkuttler> UniFreak: ^^
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• 1042[09:05:10] <UniFreak> nkuttler, wait a second, I may wrongly configured the source.list to use jessie mirrors
• 1043[09:06:04] <nkuttler> why are you touching the sources if you use a stretch container?
• 1044[09:07:29] <UniFreak> That's right, the source.list is misconfiged
• 1045[09:07:56] <UniFreak> nkuttler, download would be impossible if I use the original source.list
• 1046[09:08:20] <UniFreak> too slow for a person in China
• 1047[09:08:33] <V7> Hey all
• 1048[09:08:56] <V7> i3wm just keeps not showing any text. Black xterm window and i3-status is empty
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• 1051[09:12:49] <nkuttler> UniFreak: do you use a proxy, or.. ?
• 1052[09:13:10] <nkuttler> UniFreak: the image has deb.debian.org configured, does that not work properly?
• 1053[09:13:29] <UniFreak> I use proxy
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• 1055[09:14:14] <nkuttler> UniFreak: you can set the proxy in apt.conf, see man 5 apt.conf
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• 1057[09:14:29] <nkuttler> though i guess the proxy might need configuration to use your custom source, if you have one
• 1058[09:14:42] <UniFreak> sorry but I didn't test the debian.org speed. But from general experience, that would be slow
• 1059[09:14:54] <nkuttler> !deb.debian.org
• 1060[09:14:54] <dpkg> deb.debian.org is a mirror network that is backed by international content delivery networks and for most users, this is the most reliable <mirror> to use in the <sources.list>. From Debian 9 "Stretch" onwards, apt queries SRV records in DNS which then send it off to a CDN. Older apt will get an HTTP redirect from deb.debian.org to the same CDNs. See replaced-url
• 1061[09:15:12] <nkuttler> but see man 5 apt.conf
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• 1100[09:58:07] <V7> This is how it looks like: replaced-url
• 1101[09:58:13] <V7> Fonts work, but not in i3 as you can see: replaced-url
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• 1121[10:22:36] <obstbaum> hello, i installed windows7 and it overwrite my boot. is there a simple comand that check how many os on system installed an rewrite boot
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• 1123[10:23:45] <iflema> os-prober but i think th partitions have to be mounted... not sure
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• 1125[10:24:17] <obstbaum> i installed all on one hdd
• 1126[10:24:31] <obstbaum> and using actually debian live
• 1127[10:24:44] <Srdeg> my network manager says 'device not ready' however im still connected through wifi. what app is managing the connection?
• 1128[10:24:45] <iflema> oh ok
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• 1130[10:25:11] <iflema> Srdeg: come on... more info
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• 1133[10:26:03] <iflema> obstbaum: i just knock up a 40_custom when on grub
• 1134[10:26:29] <iflema> 09_custom if yoy want windows first
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• 1136[10:27:52] <iflema> Srdeg: distro and release... at least... desktop?
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• 1138[10:28:04] <Srdeg> iflema: how do i know which app is managing my wifi conection right now. coz NM is definitely not the one
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• 1140[10:28:17] <Srdeg> iflema: debian9 LXDE
• 1141[10:28:41] <iflema> no idea but now others may be able to assist.
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• 1150[10:33:51] <Srdeg> would network-manager-gnome work on LXDE ?
• 1151[10:34:18] <obstbaum> did someone know the root pw for debian 9 live?
• 1152[10:34:50] <Srdeg> obstbaum: yes google knows
• 1153[10:35:05] <obstbaum> google didnt helped
• 1154[10:35:22] <obstbaum> live isnt it
• 1155[10:36:09] <Srdeg> oh
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• 1157[10:37:10] <obstbaum> got it... u must creat it ^^
• 1158[10:37:14] <obstbaum> lol
• 1159[10:38:41] <Srdeg> :)
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• 1172[10:46:18] <iflema> ine trys toor :D
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• 1174[10:47:32] <iflema> i assume melenials dont
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• 1242[11:37:26] <morphles> I have buster, and easy-rsa package installed, but I do not get file /usr/bin/make-cadir (thoug I get man file) openvpn tutorial for debian implies it should be in that packe and also replaced-url
• 1243[11:37:30] <morphles> How can this be?
• 1244[11:38:39] <morphles> ok I see i have to go to other channel, sorry
• 1245[11:39:45] <nkuttler> morphles: dpkg -L <package>
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• 1282[12:00:09] <cheapie> OK, so it took way too long for me to figure this out, but this is how to make wodim (and other similar software) work in Debian as non-root users: replaced-url
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• 1286[12:00:56] <cheapie> TL;DR version: add "* hard memlock unlimited" and "* soft memlock unlimited" to /etc/security/limits.conf and add "session required pam_limits.so" to /etc/pam.d/common-session and then log out and back in (or reboot).
• 1287[12:02:27] <cheapie> Still doesn't make wodim suck any less but at least it works now :P
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• 1291[12:03:30] <jelly> the fact cd and dvd burning sucked hard on linux made me move to usb storage that much faster, so hey
• 1292[12:03:45] <cheapie> Yeah, but CDs are more fun :P
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• 1294[12:04:17] <cheapie> Especially since I just recently got one of these: replaced-url
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• 1369[13:19:54] <norbert> hi, is there a procedure to request certain package to be added to the repos, or is this something the program's team would have to look into?
• 1370[13:20:11] <abrotman> !rfp
• 1371[13:20:12] <dpkg> Request For Package (RFP) is the way to ask for a piece of software to be included in Debian. See replaced-url
• 1372[13:20:49] <norbert> !nmg
• 1373[13:20:49] <dpkg> The packaging tutorial (replaced-url
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• 1437[14:21:51] <doug_> How can I get wifi set up on a Debian install that doesn't have the "standard system utilities" group installed?
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• 1454[14:35:15] <diverdude> Hi, I have a USB port which is connected to a CNC machine. On the computer end its USB and on CNC end its parallel port. Is there a way in debian i can see what the address of this USB port is?
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• 1459[14:39:03] <jelly> that usb-parallel bridge could look like anything
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• 1461[14:39:45] <jelly> it _might_ look like usblp or not
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• 1463[14:40:55] <jelly> diverdude, start by looking at lsusb output on the computer
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• 1465[14:41:40] <diverdude> jelly: command not found
• 1466[14:41:41] <jelly> if you can unplug and plug it back it will be easy to figure out which device it is
• 1467[14:41:56] <jelly> judd, file bin/lsusb
• 1468[14:42:00] <judd> Search for bin/lsusb in stretch/amd64: usbutils: usr/bin/lsusb
• 1469[14:42:10] <jelly> install that package if it's missing
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• 1473[14:43:29] <diverdude> jelly: i cannot install lsusb from apt-get either
• 1474[14:44:03] <jelly> diverdude, that's not the package name
• 1475[14:44:13] <jelly> it's usbutils
• 1476[14:44:37] <diverdude> aha ok..installing that one
• 1477[14:45:54] <diverdude> jelly: ok...only difference on lsusb when i take usb out and in is : Bus 002 Device 008: ID 2121:2130
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• 1487[14:51:57] <jim> diverdude, maybe you could have used: apt-cache search lsusb
• 1488[14:52:07] <jim> lemme try that
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• 1496[14:55:28] <jim> yep, came up with usbutils... and, here's an alternative: there's a bot here you can message, judd, that is a window into the ultimate debian database... there, you can: /msg judd find lsusb (or maybe this is a faster search: /msg judd find bin/lsusb)
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• 1506[15:02:44] <shtrb> Is it possible to tie bug 864293 to systemd` ?
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• 1508[15:03:25] <shtrb> it's more of a systemD issue than locker app
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• 1510[15:06:22] <shtrb> #864239
• 1511[15:06:23] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 1512[15:06:43] <shtrb> replaced-url
• 1513[15:06:44] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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• 1520[15:09:20] <abrotman> shtrb: is that your bug?
• 1521[15:09:36] <shtrb> no, but I just reproduced it :-(
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• 1523[15:09:51] <abrotman> and how do you know it's a systemd issue?
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• 1525[15:09:58] <abrotman> (that bug has nearly no information)
• 1526[15:10:29] <shtrb> I think it's a systemd` issue , because to ublock it you need to use a systemD command
• 1527[15:10:51] <abrotman> taht link says their /tmp/ was ful
• 1528[15:10:52] <abrotman> full
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• 1532[15:11:59] <shtrb> yes, intellectually chalenged "Feature"
• 1533[15:12:06] <abrotman> sorry, the link in the bug report (from opensuse)
• 1534[15:12:42] <shtrb> good luck doing so on a mouse only system
• 1535[15:13:15] <abrotman> a mouse-only system?
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• 1537[15:13:52] <shtrb> big screen and a wireless mouse, sorry , rants shouldn't be put there
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• 1540[15:16:37] <jelly> diverdude, so that's the one then
• 1541[15:17:25] <diverdude> thx
• 1542[15:18:16] <abrotman> shtrb: you haven't explained how it's a systemd problem
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• 1544[15:19:30] <jelly> diverdude, and some (russian) results of replaced-url
• 1545[15:20:27] <jelly> diverdude, perhaps #linuxcnc channel would be more helpful
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• 1558[15:28:03] <ElDiabolo> Hi. I just installed the kernel 4.16 backport on stretch. It did however not do a kbuild and it does not show me a login screen. How kann I force a kbuild to happen?
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• 1594[15:58:09] <cloudowind> when 4.17 will be available for debian ? does anyone got a clue?
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• 1599[16:00:26] <dvs> cloudwin, you can build it yourself if you want
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• 1608[16:05:19] <joelwallis> Hello. I'm trying to install Debian on a recently bought laptop. Its BIOS seems to be be/use UEFI and I found it surprisingly difficult to install a Linux on it.
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• 1611[16:05:39] <joelwallis> Does anyone have any useful resource for installing Debian on a UEFI-backed laptop?
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• 1615[16:06:37] <Namarrgon> what is the problem?
• 1616[16:07:14] <dvs> joelwallis, Just make sure the laptop is in UEFI mode and you select a UEFI install
• 1617[16:07:38] <joelwallis> I'm able to boot wih Debian, see the very first screen that let me choose graphical or expert install, but after that I'm not able to see anything. The installation just frozes
• 1618[16:07:45] <jim> joelwallis, well I did it a couple months ago
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• 1620[16:08:31] <joelwallis> I've chosen both graphical and expert (CLI probably) modes. Waited for almost an hour in both moments, but got no output in video
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• 1622[16:08:49] <Namarrgon> which gpu does that laptop use?
• 1623[16:09:03] <joelwallis> hm. good question. lemme check
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• 1625[16:09:22] <jim> joelwallis, maybe try the text-based install
• 1626[16:09:36] <jim> (it just means the -installer- will be text)
• 1627[16:09:38] <Namarrgon> some of the drivers have issues during the hand-off from the uefi fb
• 1628[16:11:00] <jim> doesn't have to be expert install
• 1629[16:11:04] <joelwallis> Namarrgon: it seems to be Intel HD Graphics 520 (300 MHz base, boost to 1050 MHz)
• 1630[16:11:09] <joelwallis> pretty standard I guess
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• 1632[16:11:55] <jim> how much ram does the laptop have?
• 1633[16:11:57] <Namarrgon> add 'nomodeset' to the kernel parameters
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• 1637[16:14:26] <jim> joelwallis, so, the laptop has how much ram?
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• 1639[16:14:39] <joelwallis> jim: 8GB
• 1640[16:14:46] <jim> sounds fine
• 1641[16:15:09] <jim> and do you know which cpu?
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• 1643[16:15:40] <joelwallis> jim: Intel Core i7-6500U (2.5 GHz base, boost up to 3.1 GHz)
• 1644[16:16:02] <abrotman> joelwallis: which installer are you using?
• 1645[16:16:09] <joelwallis> netinst
• 1646[16:16:18] <abrotman> sorry, stretch or buster?
• 1647[16:17:09] <joelwallis> 9.4. not sure about the codename
• 1648[16:17:11] <doug_> Saw an article on enabling unstable repos and the guy kept in the testing and testing security repos at the top. Is this recommended?
• 1649[16:17:19] <doug_> source: replaced-url
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• 1651[16:18:04] <jelly> doug_, absolutely not
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• 1653[16:18:40] <doug_> What if you only had the first two lines, deb and deb-src, or the main unstable repo?
• 1654[16:18:48] <joelwallis> doug_: probably not the best person to recommend you something, but one of the values of Debian is that it's rock-solid. Enabling a testing repo in your machine will make you able to install software that's still being tested. So, it might - and probably will break
• 1655[16:19:05] <jelly> doug_, do that only if you want to switch over to testing; mixing stable deb lines with anything newer is unsafe
• 1656[16:19:16] <joelwallis> if you don't have enough skills to get your hands dirty when things go wrong, don't enable it.
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• 1658[16:20:18] <jim> it's an i7 laptop, the right arch for that is amd64
• 1659[16:20:44] <jim> (i386 will work, but you don't need to do that)
• 1660[16:21:08] <joelwallis> Yeah, I'm using amd64
• 1661[16:21:10] <doug_> jelly: Thanks!
• 1662[16:21:30] <joelwallis> debian-9.4.0-amd64-netinst.iso
• 1663[16:21:42] <jim> joelwallis, does it freeze when you try the textual install?
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• 1665[16:22:05] <joelwallis> jim: yeah. just tried now, and it's frozen here
• 1666[16:22:13] <jim> hmm
• 1667[16:22:47] <jim> I wonder if you should try a ram checker
• 1668[16:23:20] <jim> (it would check the ram and the cpu, and probably also the video)
• 1669[16:23:22] <jelly> joelwallis, have you tried an installation image with included firmware? I have no idea if skylake inet gpu needs firmware or not
• 1670[16:23:30] <jelly> !firmware images
• 1671[16:23:30] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See replaced-url
• 1672[16:23:38] <jelly> intel* gpu
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• 1674[16:24:43] <jim> joelwallis, right, you should try the firmware image (I'm not sure if it would solve the immediate freeze problem)
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• 1677[16:25:15] <jelly> a black screen does not mean the system is frozen.
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• 1679[16:25:31] <jim> jelly, when does the firmware come into play?
• 1680[16:25:50] <sleepyhead> joelwallis: did you try the nomodeset thing that Namarrgon was talking about?
• 1681[16:26:00] <jelly> give me a skylake laptop and I'll tell you, jim
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• 1683[16:26:40] <jelly> or ask #intel-gfx
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• 1687[16:27:27] <joelwallis> I'm downloading a Live image to see if I'm able to make a complete boot
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• 1689[16:27:55] <dvs> joelwallis, I'd go for the firmware install
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• 1692[16:28:27] <jim> jelly, that's not my question... my question, is when does the firmware get installed or become active? does that happen when the kernel boots?
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• 1695[16:28:53] <abrotman> jim: for installation or after?
• 1696[16:28:57] <john1008> joelwallis, did you disable secureboot in bios ?
• 1697[16:28:59] <abrotman> but, both ...
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• 1700[16:29:15] <jelly> jim, no idea, but the earliest it might happen would be when i915 kernel module is loaded
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• 1703[16:29:51] <jelly> "when the kernel boots" is too vague
• 1704[16:29:54] <jim> so the firmware is already unpacked in the image
• 1705[16:30:21] <abrotman> yes
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• 1707[16:30:36] <jim> ok, thanks
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• 1709[16:30:52] <jim> so it would be a good thing to try :)
• 1710[16:31:13] <jelly> no, I like to suggest stupid things that are not a good thing to try
• 1711[16:31:27] * jelly grumbles
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• 1713[16:32:03] <jim> come on, I didn't mean it that way
• 1714[16:32:10] <joelwallis> john1008: I tried both in secure and legacy boot modes. Same result
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• 1719[16:33:05] <OS-34800> join #offsec
• 1720[16:33:18] * jelly gives OS-34800 a /
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• 1723[16:33:29] <joelwallis> sleepyhead: not yet. I'll download an image and try it
• 1724[16:34:01] <jim> joelwallis, here's one: replaced-url
• 1725[16:34:07] <sleepyhead> joelwallis: you just use the drive you already have with debian on it. nomodeset is passed to the kernel during bootup
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• 1727[16:34:28] <sleepyhead> joelwallis: you have to use the option to edit the boot command and add nomodeset to the end of that
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• 1729[16:34:39] <joelwallis> What's the difference between this unofficial cd-including-firmware to the default one?
• 1730[16:34:53] <joelwallis> is it because it includes the software that's non-free?
• 1731[16:34:57] <jim> joelwallis, just the firmware
• 1732[16:34:59] <abrotman> yes, the firmware
• 1733[16:35:00] *** Joins: elevated (~elevated@replaced-ip)
• 1734[16:35:10] <joelwallis> got it
• 1735[16:35:15] <joelwallis> gonna try this one!
• 1736[16:35:24] <abrotman> Most laptops today end up needing some firmware or another
• 1737[16:36:14] <jim> I had to install stretch when it was testing because my laptop is also skylake
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• 1740[16:36:52] <joelwallis> what is skylake?
• 1741[16:37:15] <dvs> joelwallis, 6-series of Intel Core CPUs
• 1742[16:37:51] *** Joins: Nefertiti (~Nefertiti@replaced-ip)
• 1743[16:38:06] <jelly> generation your cpu & gpu belong to
• 1744[16:38:25] <jelly> replaced-url
• 1745[16:39:18] *** Quits: orti (~orti@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 1746[16:40:40] <jim> so i3 and i5 are also skylake?
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• 1752[16:42:14] <sleepyhead> jim: depends on which i3/5 youmean
• 1753[16:42:27] <sleepyhead> jim: there have been 8 generations so far i believe
• 1754[16:43:14] <sleepyhead> jim: the first digit generally tells you which gen it is. so the 6 in i7-6500u
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• 1759[16:48:10] <joelwallis> Tried the firmware approach and it didn't work. Black screen of death again
• 1760[16:48:28] <joelwallis> Well I'm gonna have to pause it for a moment but I'll try it again later.
• 1761[16:48:50] <shtrb> joelwallis, don't know if others have already told you but with newer bioses you need to try both UEFI boot and legacy boot (click FXX to force boot media)
• 1762[16:48:53] <joelwallis> I saved the chat here with your suggestions to try again later. Thanks a lot for all your help!
• 1763[16:49:06] <joelwallis> shtrb: FXX?
• 1764[16:49:19] <jelly> jim, there are some i3 and i5 branded (and Pentium and Celeron and i9 and xeon) models that are from the same generation. Search for skylake at ark.intel.com
• 1765[16:49:20] <shtrb> function button (F8/F12 etc)
• 1766[16:49:31] <abrotman> joelwallis: I'd say to maybe try the buster installer
• 1767[16:49:45] <shtrb> I had a Lenovo that didn't boot until I had moved to legacy mode only
• 1768[16:49:58] <shtrb> RIP engrish (sorry)
• 1769[16:50:03] * Javabean has an 8th gen laptop booting debian stretch(stable)
• 1770[16:50:34] * shtrb wish to have a P52 with all RAM slots used by working RAM sticks
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• 1772[16:51:06] <shtrb> I'm ok with a any generation if all P52 memory sticks would be occupied (up to 128 GiB of RAM)
• 1773[16:51:35] <joelwallis> shtrb: ah hahah, ok! gonna try it
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• 1775[16:51:57] <shtrb> joelwallis, what model do you have ?
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• 1777[16:52:08] <joelwallis> shtrb: Acer TravelMate P449
• 1778[16:52:24] <joelwallis> got this one from my employer
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• 1780[16:52:33] <joelwallis> but it's a pretty good machine
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• 1782[16:52:43] <shtrb> There was also the Nvidia that didn't boot without modeseting passed
• 1783[16:52:51] <joelwallis> it doesn't use nvidia
• 1784[16:52:57] <joelwallis> it uses Intel HD Graphics
• 1785[16:53:00] <joelwallis> as gpu
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• 1787[16:53:12] <jim> so i5-4590 is 4th gen, and so not skylake?
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• 1789[16:53:21] <shtrb> no
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• 1799[16:54:34] <jim> but an i3-6100 -is- skylake?
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• 1803[16:55:18] <dvs> yes
• 1804[16:55:21] <shtrb> Google says you need to "Select an UEFI file as trusted for executing if it is disabled" for EUFI boot
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• 1806[16:56:14] <hypn0> google is evil though :-/
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• 1811[16:57:33] <shtrb> says the guy who has 8.8.8.8 in his resolv.conf :P
• 1812[16:58:23] <jim> probably better to install bind, it will start from the package as a caching-only dns for lookups
• 1813[16:59:36] <TinkerTiger> I've been looking into more linux friendly email for a friend who doesn't want to cowtow to Google.
• 1814[17:00:00] *** Quits: saurabh_londhe (~Saurabh@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 1815[17:00:41] <TinkerTiger> ...he also doesn't have a cel phone so can't get a Google account.
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• 1818[17:01:02] * abrotman wonders where this is going ...
• 1819[17:01:06] <shtrb> You need a phone to get a GMail account ?
• 1820[17:01:18] <abrotman> No?
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• 1822[17:01:27] <TinkerTiger> Yes.
• 1823[17:01:32] <shtrb> That's what TinkerTiger imply
• 1824[17:01:48] <TinkerTiger> I don't imply, Google states specifically.
• 1825[17:01:49] <shtrb> TinkerTiger, zoho was nice
• 1826[17:01:53] <abrotman> There are ways around it
• 1827[17:02:23] <TinkerTiger> Zoho? I think I dated a zoho once. Hmm. :)
• 1828[17:03:14] <TinkerTiger> Thanks. I'll look into it.
• 1829[17:03:20] <shtrb> but if he doesn't care about IMAP there are others services (proton/ tutanota etc)
• 1830[17:03:28] *** Joins: wokasaur (wokasaur@replaced-ip)
• 1831[17:03:53] <shtrb> I wish debian.org would do some kind of email IMAP[s] service :)
• 1832[17:04:19] <TinkerTiger> Proton looked interesting, not not practical for all the unencrypted people I have to talk with, for myself. I'm moving away from using GMail so much.
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• 1834[17:04:45] <shtrb> The webbased only approach is annoying
• 1835[17:04:55] <abrotman> replaced-url
• 1836[17:06:08] <TinkerTiger> I agree with shtrb. I like actual mail programs. That's why we use operating systems like Debian!
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• 1838[17:07:03] <TinkerTiger> I will be teaching Linux in the Fall, I hope my boss chose Debian.
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• 1840[17:07:55] <shtrb> TinkerTiger, If that doesn't give us IMAP it shouldn't be used ! (because we wish to have sane email)
• 1841[17:09:03] <jelly> debian is not a service provider, shtrb, but you can build a service provider with the software that's in debian
• 1842[17:09:30] <shtrb> jelly , debian.org is SAAS provider :P
• 1843[17:09:39] <jelly> not really
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• 1845[17:10:03] <jelly> any and all services provided are there solely to help making or using the distro
• 1846[17:10:26] <shtrb> note the .org and not the Debian the project
• 1847[17:10:45] <jelly> I have no idea what you're talking about
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• 1849[17:11:14] <abrotman> Someone drank all the silly juice this morning
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• 1853[17:12:29] <r3> no I've some left
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• 1856[17:15:30] <TinkerTiger> Oh, so it's you guys who keep breaking into my lab? Here I just thought it was the mice. (grmple)
• 1857[17:15:46] <TinkerTiger> Okay, so what Debian topic is on the table this morning?
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• 1865[17:18:23] <plasmoduck> can I use wayland in debian stock install?
• 1866[17:18:31] <plasmoduck> Or do I have to download and install it?
• 1867[17:18:48] <plasmoduck> Like is there an option to start gnome3 with wayland?
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• 1870[17:21:15] <TinkerTiger> I am sorry, I have no experience with wayland.
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• 1880[17:35:38] <ychaouche> Hello #debian
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• 1883[17:36:56] <ychaouche> I was wondering if anyone with experience w/ logrotate can help me figure out how to solve this problem : I want to rotate files in /var/A/B but put the rotated files in /var/A/
• 1884[17:37:06] <ychaouche> I used the olddir directive like this : replaced-url
• 1885[17:37:36] <ychaouche> but it seems this is confusing logrotate about what files are rotated and what files aren't or something..
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• 1907[17:47:00] <n0t3rm> .
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• 1925[17:54:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1579
• 1926[17:54:47] <TinkerTiger> Okay, I always have to remember how to do this because I never do it much. Setup a drive in fstab to be mounted on boot.
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• 1932[17:58:54] <r3> ychaouche: it might be easier to use a cron job to move files after they've been rotated?
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• 1936[18:00:23] <ychaouche> TinkerTiger: here's how mine looks like : replaced-url
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• 1940[18:00:42] <ychaouche> r3: idk
• 1941[18:01:08] <TinkerTiger> Cool.
• 1942[18:01:15] <ychaouche> logrotate serves this very purpose, why write another script instead of learning how to use logrotate properly ?
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• 1944[18:03:59] <ychaouche> TinkerTiger: don't forget to create the mountpoint beforehand
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• 1946[18:05:00] <TinkerTiger> ychaouche: That much I rememer!
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• 1953[18:15:42] <TinkerTiger> Hmm, I'd been considering looking into OwnCloud.
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• 1960[18:18:56] <ychaouche> works more or less in here
• 1961[18:19:07] <ychaouche> used by some 80 people
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• 1963[18:19:23] <ychaouche> and very easy to setup
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• 1968[18:21:49] <jsync> Hey, is there a c programming guide that teaches c programming intuitively? Something with examples & hyperlinks for functions for if the reader wants additional info about a function & it's purpose?
• 1969[18:22:48] <ychaouche> jsync: you should ask in #C or ##programming
• 1970[18:23:02] <jsync> Aha. Right. Thanks.
• 1971[18:23:31] <ychaouche> actually ##C
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• 1977[18:25:34] <TinkerTiger> Well, another /dev/null in the family.
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• 2009[18:50:05] <TinkerTiger> Hmm, okay, tried to instal nextcloud which is web based and getting php fail.
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• 2021[19:04:08] <miky_> test
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• 2024[19:07:51] <ychaouche> miky_: I didn't get that
• 2025[19:07:53] <miky_> hello channal, is there anyone? :)
• 2026[19:08:19] * ychaouche hides behind the curtains
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• 2030[19:08:45] <miky_> #yuchauche hi what? :)
• 2031[19:09:15] <TinkerTiger> I am not anyone.
• 2032[19:09:22] <miky_> i have a question if some can help me to solve?
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• 2034[19:09:49] <TinkerTiger> Ask, someone might know.
• 2035[19:10:36] <miky_> #TinkerTiger nice to meet you, i have ubuntu v 18.4 and try to run postman: replaced-url
• 2036[19:10:38] <jhutchins> !ask
• 2037[19:10:39] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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• 2041[19:12:49] <miky_> but When I want to launch the application by double clicking the executable, i not see the GUI.
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• 2043[19:13:20] <miky_> #dpkg thanks sorry i'm new not have experience in irc chat
• 2044[19:13:21] <miky_> :)
• 2045[19:14:18] <TinkerTiger> miky_: Good luck. I mainly use the command line and never ran postman.
• 2046[19:14:55] <miky_> replaced-url
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• 2048[19:16:23] <miky_> if some use postman and had ubuntu 18.4 maybe he can help me
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• 2051[19:16:59] <miky_> in previous versions of ubuntu I had no problem... :(
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• 2054[19:18:35] <miky_> #TinkerTiger ok thanks anyway
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• 2059[19:22:29] <jolt> miky_: You probably have to ask in the ubuntu forums, if it has changed between released it's probably something only the ubuntu team would know about
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• 2061[19:23:30] <miky_> #jolt aha thanks sorry have a nice day
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• 2069[19:31:33] <ksool> After an upgrade, I've got a soundcard which shows up under ALSA but no longer under pulse. Any ideas of what I can check?
• 2070[19:32:06] <somiaj> upgrade to what?
• 2071[19:32:22] <somiaj> are you runing testing or unstable?
• 2072[19:33:03] <ksool> This is on unstable, normal upgrade but included a kernel update and some other packages. Nothing obviously pulse related.
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• 2074[19:33:32] <somiaj> debian unstable questions are better asked in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net. I have heard of others with this problem, maybe check the bts.
• 2075[19:33:57] <ksool> Thanks, I'll look there.
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• 2098[20:01:40] <g00fy> exit
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• 2151[20:35:20] <xmby> hi, for what are those -cloud kernels
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• 2153[20:37:39] <xmby> can they do cloud-smp
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• 2277[22:07:06] <Srdeg> Why is my machine getting so hot, I'm only using Chrome to browse nothing else.? replaced-url
• 2278[22:07:58] <somiaj> make sure the fan didn't die on your gpu, also could just be filled with dust
• 2279[22:08:21] <somiaj> I have had fans on my gpu's die in the past and had to replace them
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• 2296[22:16:24] <Srdeg> somiaj: die on the gpu ?
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• 2300[22:16:56] <Srdeg> somiaj: could it be coz im listing youtube continuously ?
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• 2302[22:17:04] <somiaj> Srdeg: yes, most gpus these days have a fan.
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• 2305[22:17:18] <somiaj> I doubt that is the issue, dust is the biggest killer of fans I know of
• 2306[22:17:25] <somiaj> is this a laptop or desktop?
• 2307[22:17:27] <Srdeg> somiaj: its an old laptop im using, 10 yrs old :)
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• 2309[22:17:42] <somiaj> blow the dust out of it, try to get more air flow tot he gpu
• 2310[22:18:03] <somiaj> maybe laptops gpus dont' have a deticated fan like desktops. Are your laptop's fans still running? Check them
• 2311[22:18:26] <Srdeg> somiaj: if fan wasnt running i'd be on fire already :)
• 2312[22:18:29] <somiaj> but it is most likely an airflow issue on the old laptop, and fans and dust are the two most common things.
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• 2315[22:18:59] <somiaj> not always, the heat sink could still be disppating some of the heat, just nto enough to keep it from getting that hot
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• 2317[22:20:09] <Srdeg> somiaj: funnt tho. coz the cpu is like 25 % usage... im not running no heavy app or something. just a few browser tabs
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• 2340[22:32:42] <annadane> can someone just elucidate for me the meaning of contrib, as i understand it the software in contrib in itself is free, aka complies with DFSG, but it's based on software which is non-free according to the DFSG
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• 2344[22:35:09] <bites> yes. things that have build dependencies in non-free for example.
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• 2350[22:38:53] <somiaj> annadane: not based, but some how needs non-free to work. Example could be a free script that downloads non-free software.
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• 2353[22:39:50] <Unit193> Unfortunately this also includes 'recommended' packages.
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• 2410[23:22:08] <quiliro> hello, i know debian is the general distro and inkscape is only one of its thousands of programs...so the appropriate place to ask about inkscape is #inkscape...but i get no answer ... i have waited for some time....
• 2411[23:22:34] <quiliro> i cannot break a polyline with the node tool...any idea?
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