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49[00:59:16] <alex11> i'm trying to copy files using Thunar onto an external hd to do a system backup/restore but the permissions get reset to rwxrwxrwx when i do that, any ideas how to remedy?
50[00:59:59] <sney> the filesystem on your external drive may not support permissions. fat32 in particular does not.
51[01:00:18] <sney> if you want to make a backup with the permissions intact, use tar.
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53[01:01:39] <sney> e.g. tar cf /mnt/whatever/backup-date.tar /dir1 /dir2 /dir3 etc
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82[01:45:45] <alex11> sney, could i just rewrite the filesystem on it?
83[01:46:23] <alex11> i wonder if i could just mkfs.ext4 on it but i don't have too much experience with that
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86[01:48:33] <sney> alex11: yes, ext2 might be more sane since you probably don't need a journal on a backup drive, but that would work
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88[01:49:07] <alex11> does the drive need to be unmounted first?
89[01:49:28] <sney> yes and then you run your mkfs on the partition
90[01:49:45] <FuzzyByte> n o t the entire thing
91[01:50:26] <alex11> yeah, thanks for the reminder, i've definitely done it to /dev/sdc before and not /dev/sdc1 or whatever
92[01:50:31] <alex11> it does not turn out well
93[01:50:48] <FuzzyByte> yes, which is why i was warning you, id di it mself
94[01:50:55] <sney> I mean if it's a removable drive that will only have the one volume, it doesn't matter, but best practice is to use the partition
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97[01:52:12] <alex11> /dev/sdc2 is mounted; will not make a filesystem here!
98[01:52:24] <alex11> so... unmount it?
99[01:52:42] <sney> [17:49:07] <alex11> does the drive need to be unmounted first?
100[01:52:42] <sney> [17:49:28] <sney> yes and then you run your mkfs on the partition
101[01:52:49] <alex11> oh, i'm stupid
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106[01:55:08] <alex11> i swore i typed mount
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114[02:00:14] <et09> did you guys know "le debian" is an anagram for "deniable"
115[02:00:28] <dvs> is not!
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118[02:01:33] <FuzzyByte> et09: seen a space in deniable anywhere?
119[02:01:41] <et09> spaces dont count
120[02:01:56] <et09> s/\s//g
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129[02:06:49] <alex11> oh, sney, i forgot to add this drive's partition is 3.7 terrabytes, is ext2 still ok for it? i remember that size is a consideration
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131[02:11:04] <alex11> i think i'll use ext4 just to be on the safe side
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134[02:11:32] <alex11> though that's quite possibly unnecessary paranoia
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142[02:24:32] <alex11> okay, new question, after making the ext4 file system i can't right click paste with thunar to drop files there
143[02:24:57] <alex11> because it was done as root maybe and i'm not allowed access with the unprivileged user?
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145[02:27:11] <petn-randall> alex11: You should be able to change those with `chown`.
146[02:28:17] <alex11> petn-randall, change it on the mountpoint? chown alex /mnt/test?
147[02:30:43] <alex11> petn-randall, chgroup as well?
148[02:30:52] <alex11> chgrp, sorry
149[02:31:26] <alex11> ah, there, think i fixed it
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152[02:34:44] <alex11> it doesn't seem to be working, i set the chown and chgrp and it still says root with permissions 700
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158[02:39:01] <alex11> ah, i think i chowned the wrong thing
159[02:39:45] <Psil0Cybin> :D
160[02:39:56] <Psil0Cybin> happens just rm rf ~/
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162[02:40:00] <Psil0Cybin> lol
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165[02:40:34] *** Psil0Cybin was kicked by petn-randall (you should know better)
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167[02:40:43] <dvs> dumb move
168[02:40:44] <petn-randall> alex11: Don't do that, sorry for the troll.
169[02:40:48] <alex11> yeah, i know
170[02:40:59] <alex11> let me just list the steps i'm doing
171[02:41:49] <petn-randall> They even failed at trolling, that would delete "rf" and then fail because ~/ is a dir.
172[02:41:58] <alex11> 1) unmount, mkfs.ext4 /dev/sdc2 2) mount /dev/sdc2 /mnt/testlol 3) chown alex /mnt/testlol 4) chgrp /mnt/testlol
173[02:42:06] <alex11> it seems to keep setting itself back to root
174[02:42:12] <alex11> sorry, 4) chgrp alex /mnt/testlol*
175[02:42:13] <dvs> yeah, everyone knows it's.... *thwap*
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177[02:44:21] <petn-randall> alex11: Are you running all commands as root?
178[02:44:38] <alex11> i am, let me try again
179[02:45:10] <petn-randall> alex11: Do you get an error?
180[02:45:26] <sney> make sure you are changing the ownership of the contents, not just the mount point. (I usually use -R so I'm sure that I got everything.)
181[02:45:48] <petn-randall> alex11: btw, you can do 3+4 in one by running `chown alex. /mnt/testlol/`.
182[02:46:31] <petn-randall> The trailing slash might make a difference.
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185[02:47:57] <alex11> well there we go, seems to work
186[02:48:24] <alex11> i can remove lost+found, right? i checked ls -a and it has nothing in it
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188[02:49:23] <sney> lost+found is an ext feature so there's no harm in leaving it in place
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190[02:50:42] <alex11> i assumed it would just reappear if required, that removing it doesn't prevent that functionality
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193[02:50:55] <alex11> which i think is correct, you're just saying i don't *have* to remove it
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200[02:53:06] <dvs> "Here, you have it" "No, I insist" ... ;-P
201[02:53:27] <Unit193> petn-randall: Your key seems stuck, fyi.
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204[02:55:45] <alex11> one other question, does copying as root take on root's permissions or does it preserve the attributes of what's already there
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208[02:57:01] <petn-randall> Unit193: The auto_bleh functions didn't do what I expected.
209[02:58:33] <alex11> one other other question, when i restore my debian system using the same username as i have now i'll still be able to copy the files by hand, right? i'm not using tar because there's a lot i want to throw out
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213[02:59:53] <petn-randall> Unit193: It's been so long that I've manually unbanned people that I had to look up the steps :)
214[02:59:55] <alex11> i just don't know if the UUIDs will be the same between systems
215[03:00:13] <petn-randall> alex11: uid 1000 is usually the first unprivileged user on Debian systems.
216[03:00:23] <alex11> so it'll be ok, then
217[03:00:25] <Unit193> /ams -bo *!*@maskhere petn-randall ! :>
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219[03:01:44] <petn-randall> alex11: Yeah. Note that if you want to spend a little more time on backups, something like borgbackup will allow you to make incremental backups pretty fast.
220[03:01:57] <petn-randall> Unit193: my auto_bleh.pl doesn't have /ams.
221[03:02:53] <Unit193> petn-randall: Huh, that sounds like a rather old version. I seem to have 1.9 but I think I'm a version behind.
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225[03:06:28] <petn-randall> Unit193: Where did you find your copy? Mine seems to be 0.05 ...
226[03:07:39] <alex11> ah, ok, i see copying does take on the attributes of the user doing the copying
227[03:08:15] <petn-randall> alex11: Yes, unless you are root.
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229[03:08:56] <petn-randall> Or rather, unless you pass the right flags to `cp`.
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244[03:26:47] <yanmaani> j #devuan
245[03:27:10] <cybercrypto> fail :-)
246[03:27:31] <yanmaani> think before you type :)
247[03:27:49] <cybercrypto> that's what they say...
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254[03:35:43] <alex11> j #systemd
255[03:35:47] <alex11> oops :-)
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258[03:37:07] <cybercrypto> alex11: try: /j #systemd sysctl -set-default pleaseletmein.target :-)
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263[03:41:44] <couragetogrow> hello
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265[03:42:14] <sney> hi
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292[04:10:22] <Unit193> petn-randall: replaced-url
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297[04:15:11] <abff> woa
298[04:15:32] <Alexandrov> what woa?
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300[04:15:45] <couragetogrow> WeeeeeooooWOW
301[04:15:59] <Alexandrov> hahahaha
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319[04:43:18] <arielfe> can someone please help me diagnose audio problems with my debian buster. been at it for the past week - and cant solve them... cant even understand whats going on.
320[04:46:00] <jmcnaught> What are the problems?
321[04:47:31] <arielfe> had sound - and suddenly its gone.
322[04:47:49] <arielfe> my none root user is in the audio group and hes the only one there
323[04:48:08] <arielfe> tried to remove and reinstall both alsa and pulse audio
324[04:48:35] <arielfe> speakers are on. volume is on
325[04:48:48] <arielfe> happened before
326[04:49:01] <dvs> !buster pulseaudio
327[04:49:23] <dvs> !pulseaudio timidity
328[04:49:34] <dvs> !timidity pulseaudio
329[04:49:35] <dpkg> Some users have had <timidity> blocking access to their sound card, resulting in <pulseaudio> only seeing a dummy output. Check if timidity is running with 'systemctl status timidity' and stop/disable with 'systemctl stop timidity ; systemctl disable timidity' and/or remove the timidity-daemon package.
330[04:49:40] <dvs> ah, tried that?
331[04:49:56] <arielfe> i think i have - but just in case
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333[04:50:22] <arielfe> yup there is no timidity
334[04:50:38] <jmcnaught> arielfe: do you see your sound card in pavucontrol?
335[04:51:13] <arielfe> how do i run it?
336[04:51:38] <sney> pavucontrol isn't installed by default anymore
337[04:51:51] <sney> can you see your sound card in the output of *both* 'aplay -l' and 'pacmd list-sinks'?
338[04:51:52] <dvs> yay!
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340[04:52:38] <arielfe> hmmm
341[04:53:09] <arielfe> ill paste the results an a bin - they dont look right
342[04:55:36] <arielfe> replaced-url
343[04:55:47] <arielfe> replaced-url
344[04:57:25] <dvs> So your audio is going to your monitor?
345[04:58:26] <arielfe> sounds about right XD
346[04:58:42] <sney> yeah, seems like the hdmi out got set as the default
347[04:59:19] <arielfe> thank you dvs and sney
348[04:59:23] <sney> in the kde pulseaudio widget on my system, (ymmv but most should be the same) I can click the volume icon, go to the 'devices' tab and select which device I want to be the default
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350[05:00:10] <arielfe> im using gnome - l think its the same
351[05:00:19] <sney> and there's a sub-menu that lets me select ports.
352[05:00:30] <arielfe> ah - havent seen that
353[05:00:30] <sney> it should be the same because pulse is the same everywhere
354[05:00:43] <sney> otherwise you can install pavucontrol and adjust it there
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356[05:04:10] <arielfe> ill try a reboot
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361[05:09:42] <arielfe> replaced-url
362[05:09:53] <arielfe> still no sound
363[05:13:32] <sney> if you run 'journalctl --user -u pulseaudio' are there any errors?
364[05:13:56] <sney> if you type shift-G that'll take you to the most recent entry
365[05:14:50] <arielfe> no entries
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367[05:15:35] <sney> when you are running journalctl with --user, that means it's for your user. therefore do not run it as root or use sudo
368[05:16:05] <arielfe> tried both ways
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371[05:16:37] <sney> it should at least say something about successfully starting pulseaudio.
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373[05:17:20] <arielfe> ah
374[05:17:36] <arielfe> i think i routed the error log to syslog
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377[05:18:50] <sney> fine, are there any lines under pulseaudio or systemd regarding pulseaudio errors, or does it just say successfully started, etc?
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380[05:19:04] <arielfe> assertion 'GVC_IS_MIXER_UI_DEVICE (device)' failed
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382[05:19:33] <sney> does the date stamp correspond with the last time you tested audio?
383[05:20:10] <arielfe> yup
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388[05:21:14] <arielfe> replaced-url
389[05:21:49] <sney> run 'aplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Noise.wav' and tell me if a) you hear the static and 2) you see the message in the same log again
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391[05:23:33] <arielfe> no sound. no message.
392[05:24:01] <sney> the sound may be very quiet so try again with your volume cranked
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394[05:24:07] <arielfe> ok
395[05:24:21] <arielfe> when i change the volume i see the error
396[05:24:39] <sney> immediately when changing the volume?
397[05:24:44] <arielfe> yup
398[05:24:52] <arielfe> still no sound
399[05:25:01] <sney> hrm. and the error is under what?
400[05:25:25] <arielfe> gsd-media-keys[2277]
401[05:26:22] <sney> oh, that might not be anything. if the volume levels shown under pacmd list are the same as the ones you're setting, it's probably just some control errata
402[05:26:45] <arielfe> i see
403[05:27:51] <sney> when you run the aplay test, do you get the Playing WAVE ... message?
404[05:28:07] <arielfe> yes
405[05:28:34] <arielfe> two new errors appeared: replaced-url
406[05:28:55] <sney> alright. that test is the most basic thing we have. it feeds a wav file directly to your sound driver. if you aren't getting sound there, then it's pretty low-level.
407[05:29:17] <sney> GL stuff is video, not directly relevant
408[05:29:28] <arielfe> i see
409[05:30:09] <arielfe> i'm using proprietary nvidia drivers for my gtx-1060
410[05:30:32] <sney> that won't affect audio from a separate device
411[05:30:43] <arielfe> ok i se
412[05:30:45] <arielfe> see
413[05:31:43] <sney> any missing/load failure messages if you 'dmesg |grep -i firmware'?
414[05:32:15] <sney> this is a shot in the dark though, I've never seen intel hda need firmware and the driver does seem to be loaded
415[05:32:25] <sney> tbh at this point I suspect a hardware fault. particularly if it did work once
416[05:34:07] <arielfe> replaced-url
417[05:34:13] <arielfe> i see
418[05:34:41] <sney> i915 is intel video and r8169 is wired ethernet. neither relevant
419[05:34:57] <arielfe> thought so
420[05:35:07] <arielfe> so its hardware then probably?
421[05:35:16] <sney> heh, I just looked at my system and we have the exact same sound controller. ALC887-VD. definitely no firmware required and this one is working fine, not that that helps you
422[05:35:22] <sney> yes hardware is my diagnosis
423[05:35:28] <arielfe> hehe
424[05:35:58] <arielfe> i see - thank you! you saved me a lot of time that i dont have
425[05:36:12] <sney> np. try a usb device, that shouldn't be affected
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427[05:36:34] <arielfe> this sound card is part of the motherboard right? no way to take it out
428[05:36:48] <sney> I can't see your computer but that's usually true
429[05:36:57] <sney> you can probably disable it in the bios though
430[05:37:24] <arielfe> and then it wont interfere with any external card ill buy?
431[05:37:49] <sney> it won't interfere anyway, but if you disable it, that'll make things easier yes
432[05:37:56] <arielfe> awesome
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434[05:39:22] <arielfe> thank you again - you really helped me. and its a very critical time for me. appreciate it!
435[05:39:27] <sney> np
436[05:39:38] <arielfe> :)
437[05:40:00] <arielfe> See you sney and have a good night/day
438[05:40:16] * sney waves
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446[05:54:22] <wikan> hi :)
447[05:55:36] <wikan> do you know why pulseaudio is so so so so much annoying? For 3 or 4 days was ok. But again it starts to act abnormal. Now pulse started muted.
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449[05:56:38] <wikan> Before pulse couldn't detect headphones so default device was "Speaker" but wasn't play because headphones were plugged
450[05:56:47] <wikan> why pulse can't work normal :|
451[05:57:14] <Alexandrov> Did you run any update?
452[05:57:14] <wikan> i removed it because I has enough but new firefox requires it so... :|
453[05:57:21] <wikan> nope
454[05:57:32] <Alexandrov> did you changed any settings?
455[05:57:39] <wikan> didn't touch anything
456[05:57:43] <Alexandrov> any of its settings
457[05:57:50] <Alexandrov> do you update the firefox?
458[05:58:07] <Alexandrov> which channel of Firefox are you in? Aurora?
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460[05:58:27] <Alexandrov> pls check your /etc/apt/
461[05:58:36] <wikan> just 10 minutes ago I loged out and logged in and didn't hear any sound. So I checked pavucontrol and it shoewd "Estabilishing connection to server..."
462[05:58:53] <wikan> so I restarted system and pulse started muted
463[05:59:16] <wikan> I downloaded firefox from website
464[05:59:54] <Alexandrov> Wait, let me see
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466[06:00:29] <wikan> btw. pulse muted soundcard and alsa didn't work too
467[06:01:12] <Alexandrov> replaced-url
468[06:01:16] <Alexandrov> Raise this issue here
469[06:01:48] <Alexandrov> Have you raised it? Just copy and paste what we were discussing so that the team will pick this up
470[06:01:56] <wikan> I think pulse checks devices on first run and remember it. This is why I had have not problems with headphones for 4 days, because I installed pulse with headphones plugged in
471[06:02:05] <wikan> before headphones where plugged out
472[06:02:26] <wikan> let me observe this for few next hours
473[06:02:40] <wikan> i will log in and log out many times yet ;)
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494[06:34:35] <EdePopede> wikan: wgeb it didn't detect your headphones, did you do the obvious? (i hate it, but... did you unplug it and plug it in again?)
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496[06:34:47] <EdePopede> s/wgeb/when/
497[06:35:32] <EdePopede> i have the issue sometimes, 2 PCs and a single sound system, sometimes it just switches to digital output where i don't have any hardware at all, and here it helps.
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507[06:45:59] <wikan> EdePopede: yes did it, doesn't work
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577[08:13:50] <hegemoOn> is there a packaged lib which provide zstandard parsing for python availble / ?
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579[08:14:11] <hegemoOn> there is this zstandard lib installable by pip
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582[08:14:27] <hegemoOn> but i cannot see it's available by apt
583[08:15:11] <Unit193> #963181
584[08:15:26] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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590[08:21:04] <somiaj> hegemoOn: it is often preferable if needing to install stuff with pip (outside of debian) to setup a python virtual enviorment for this.
591[08:21:53] <somiaj> Unit193: that may not be what hegemoOn was looking for since it appears to be python3 -- I still assume python in debian is 2.
592[08:22:20] <somiaj> though I highly doubt there is any effort to bring in python2 libs
593[08:22:52] <Unit193> No, python2 stuff is getting removed with a strong hand. wicd got the axe.
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596[08:26:19] <alex11> buster - experimental
597[08:26:22] <alex11> yep
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611[08:50:32] <hegemoOn> well im in a private environment, and we only have apt mirror
612[08:50:36] <hegemoOn> not pip mirror
613[08:50:51] <hegemoOn> therefore we install only apt package for python-library
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620[08:57:53] <hegemoOn> alex11: is it in experimental repo ?
621[08:58:13] <alex11> yes but you shouldn't really use experimental packages
622[08:58:19] <hegemoOn> we dont ! :)
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671[09:54:54] <jelly> it's not too hard to locally package python modules, if you only use apt you'd need to put them in a local repo as well then
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779[11:38:06] <Hi-Angel> Hey! So, I'm trying to fix our local packages, and I found some has circular dependencies. From what I've read, it is allowed in Debian, and should just work™. However in my case it fails like this replaced-url
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789[11:46:21] <jelly> Hi-Angel, your command line is trying to install the old router package, it seems
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791[11:47:03] <jelly> dpkg -i [...] uds-rpc-router_4.4-6460.292d36f.deb
792[11:47:04] * dpkg removes a liver from jelly and replaces it with [...] uds-rpc-router_4.4-6460.292d36f.deb
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794[11:47:36] <systemdlete> what the?
795[11:47:47] <systemdlete> Am I still here?
796[11:47:51] <systemdlete> hello?
797[11:48:03] <jelly> Hi-Angel, one thing about custom packages, when testing things out try to avoid having different packages with exact same version number
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799[11:48:10] <jelly> systemdlete, yes you're here
800[11:48:27] <jelly> you just joined, in fact.
801[11:48:56] <Hi-Angel> jelly, oh, damn, I get it, the router says it depends on ">= 4.4-6460.69638a1"
802[11:49:01] <Hi-Angel> How could I miss it
803[11:49:03] <Hi-Angel> Thank you!
804[11:49:34] <jelly> Hi-Angel, log service says it depends on newer router.
805[11:49:51] <Hi-Angel> Oh, right, the log service, that is
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808[11:50:55] <jelly> Hi-Angel, and you're installing the same version of the log service package over. This WILL make dpkg confused sometimes and keep old {pre,post}{inst.rm} scripts so avoid that
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810[11:51:26] <jelly> either bump the package version on EVERY new build, or purge the package before installing anew
811[11:51:40] <Hi-Angel> Okay, thanks!
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877[12:49:25] <Eryn_1983_FL> hey guys
878[12:49:49] <Eryn_1983_FL> i did a dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdx on my drives i wanted to wipe
879[12:49:57] <Eryn_1983_FL> now i want to do /dev/random
880[12:50:02] <Eryn_1983_FL> but it doesnt seem to be doing it
881[12:50:12] <Eryn_1983_FL> i think its full??? what do i do?
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883[12:51:25] <Haohmaru> "full" ? what's full?
884[12:51:34] <ksk> Eryn_1983_FL: and what is it, you are trying to do?
885[12:51:35] <Eryn_1983_FL> not full
886[12:51:41] <ksk> random is blocking, in contrast to urandom..
887[12:51:44] <Eryn_1983_FL> i want to wipe these drives good so i can sell
888[12:51:54] <Eryn_1983_FL> ok maybe i am doing it wrong
889[12:51:56] <ksk> take a look at DBAN then, if its a classic HDD.
890[12:52:05] <Eryn_1983_FL> yeah i tried to boot it ....
891[12:52:06] <ksk> replaced-url
892[12:52:12] <Eryn_1983_FL> so i am doing my roll my own atm
893[12:53:06] <ksk> then replace /dev/random with /dev/urandom - and you most likely do _not_ want to use the default dd blocksize..
894[12:53:45] <Haohmaru> if you'd be using dd you might also add "status=progress" for fanciness
895[12:54:09] <Eryn_1983_FL> yeah i did that
896[12:54:36] <Eryn_1983_FL> tyu
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903[12:58:52] <mindlessmiss> I am trying to get my Panda PAU09 N600 wifi adapter to work, I have had it working on my p[revious debian install, IIRC it was plug and play, this time it's not showing in my network adAPTERS ANY ISDEAS ON HOW TO GO ABOUT GETTING THIOS WORKING?
904[12:59:16] <mindlessmiss> dammitg, sorry for the caps
905[12:59:16] <ksk> !firmware
906[12:59:18] <dpkg> Firmware is software to operate electronic devices, usually contained in EPROM or flash memory. Some Linux kernel drivers require firmware to be provided from userspace, notably for <WiFi> devices. Most firmware files are not part of a Debian release as they do not conform to the <DFSG>; some are available via <contrib> and <non-free> packages, ask me about <search>. See also <installer firmware>. replaced-url
907[12:59:33] <ksk> !non-free
908[12:59:33] <dpkg> [non-free] a component which contains software that does not comply with the <DFSG>. To add non-free packages to your packages index, ask me about <non-free sources>. To see which non-free packages are installed ask me about <non-free list>.
909[12:59:49] <ksk> !wifi
910[12:59:49] <dpkg> Support for your wireless LAN device is dependent on the chipset within. Don't know what you have? Ask me about <what's my wireless>. Atheros: <atheros>; Atmel: <atmel>; Broadcom: <broadcom>; Intel: <intel>; Intersil: <prism>; Marvell: <marvell>; Ralink: <ralink>; Realtek: <realtek>; TI: <acx-mac80211>; VIA: <vt665x>; ZyDAS: <zydas>. See also <crda>, <killswitch>, <wpa>. replaced-url
911[13:00:02] <ksk> mindlessmiss: ^
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913[13:00:55] <mindlessmiss> ok thanks. I think its ralink how do I check
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915[13:01:22] <ksk> " dmesg | grep -i firmware " should give some insights if I remember correctly.
916[13:01:48] <ksk> also take a look at replaced-url
917[13:02:03] <mindlessmiss> ok thaks very much
918[13:03:46] <mindlessmiss> replaced-url
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921[13:05:06] <mindlessmiss> al the reviews say iot work out of the box :-{
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928[13:07:50] <mindlessmiss> gonna try a reboot... :-\ brb
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957[13:29:23] <oxek> in debian policy section 10.4, replaced-url
958[13:29:29] <oxek> why?
959[13:30:00] <oxek> more specifically, why is '#!/usr/bin/env perl' bad?
960[13:31:00] <jelly> perl will always be at the same place, no need for an extra env invocation
961[13:31:25] <jelly> same for python shebang, etc
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963[13:33:13] <oxek> /usr/bin/python can be something else than expected if called from within a venv, no?
964[13:33:36] <jelly> packaged scripts won't use venv.
965[13:34:27] <oxek> good point
966[13:36:07] <warbaque> while according to FHS (replaced-url
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968[13:36:49] <oxek> warbaque: I know the general rule, I was wondering about that specific debian policy
969[13:37:09] <jelly> we're discussing debian packaging policy, not "writing portable scripts"
970[13:37:48] <warbaque> which is valid case for using absolute paths
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999[14:05:14] <dka> I was using ssh to a mac before now I got SSH protocol v.1 is no longer supported
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1001[14:06:23] <jelly> SSH1 was deprecated since 2000 or so
1002[14:06:42] <jelly> OSX would have had SSHv2 protocol right from the start
1003[14:06:58] <dka> ?
1004[14:07:01] <jelly> dka, which Mac, which OS?
1005[14:07:30] <dka> it's Joji's Mac, my bro
1006[14:07:34] <dka> Which OS it is the latest
1007[14:07:52] <jelly> dka, what does "telnet thatmac 22" say
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1009[14:11:22] <jelly> ,v influx
1010[14:11:23] <judd> No package named 'influx' was found in amd64.
1011[14:11:36] <jelly> ,v influxdb
1012[14:11:37] <judd> Package: influxdb on amd64 -- stretch: 1.0.2+dfsg1-1+b2; buster: 1.6.4-1+b22; bullseye: 1.6.4-2; sid: 1.6.4-2
1013[14:13:02] <dka> macOS 10.15.4 Darwin 19.4.0
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1015[14:15:25] <oxek> you can still use ssh1 if you install openssh-client-ssh1
1016[14:15:38] <tmroland> any idea how my debian updated to kernel 5.7.17 according to updates but when i reboot im still running 5.7.0-3 ?
1017[14:15:50] <oxek> tmroland: uname -r
1018[14:16:01] <jelly> dka, what does "telnet that-machine-name-or-ip 22" say?
1019[14:16:05] <tmroland> like i said, 5.7.0
1020[14:16:17] <jelly> !kernel abi
1021[14:16:17] <dpkg> Debian kernel packages have an <ABI> to indicate when out-of-tree modules must be rebuilt; upgrading from a package with 3.2.0-3-amd64 to another 3.2.0-3-amd64 doesn't require fglrx/nvidia/etc to be rebuilt, but upgrading from 3.2.0-3-amd64 to 3.2.0-4-amd64 does. Development kernels intended for <experimental> have the ABI <trunk> to indicate the ABI is unmanaged. replaced-url
1022[14:16:22] <oxek> tmroland: that's not the output of uname -r
1023[14:16:40] <tmroland> tmroland@workstation:~$ uname -r
1024[14:16:42] <tmroland> 5.7.0-3-amd64
1025[14:16:44] <tmroland> it is to me
1026[14:17:00] <jelly> tmroland, 5.7.0-3-amd64 is not a version. It's a string denoting kernel ABI
1027[14:17:27] <tmroland> so what are we looking for?
1028[14:17:31] <jelly> it roughly correlates with version and build options used.
1029[14:17:45] <jelly> we're looking to educate you a bit
1030[14:17:56] <tmroland> all i know is i had 5.7.17 in updates 5 minutes ago, apt updated to it
1031[14:18:00] <tmroland> and now im running same kernel as be fore
1032[14:18:06] <tmroland> that doesn't sound righht
1033[14:18:16] <tmroland> what happened?
1034[14:18:34] <jelly> tmroland, which package version of linux-image-5.7.0-3-amd64 or linux-image-5.7.0-3-amd64-unsigned is installed?
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1036[14:19:22] <jelly> tmroland, and also, what does "uname -v" or "uname -a" say?
1037[14:19:34] <tmroland> tmroland@workstation:~$ uname -v
1038[14:19:37] <tmroland> #1 SMP Debian 5.7.17-1 (2020-08-23)
1039[14:20:07] <jelly> the new kernel is version 5.7.17 but keeps the same kernel ABI
1040[14:20:32] <tmroland> but on all linuxes since 1993 so far that I used uname -r returned actual kernel version
1041[14:20:34] <tmroland> debian is different?
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1044[14:20:59] <tmroland> -r, --kernel-release
1045[14:21:01] <tmroland> print the kernel release
1046[14:21:05] <tmroland> so should be 5.7.17
1047[14:21:10] <jelly> nope
1048[14:21:43] <tmroland> yes its compatible with 5.7 as far aas ABI goes but it should show actual kernel minor release
1049[14:21:43] <jelly> it should be "string which says whether out-of-tree modules need to be recompiled"
1050[14:21:52] <tmroland> hmm thats weird
1051[14:21:55] <tmroland> never heard of that
1052[14:21:57] <tmroland> ok then
1053[14:22:02] <tmroland> so im running 5.7.17?
1054[14:22:16] <jelly> just like uname -v says.
1055[14:22:35] <jelly> -v, --kernel-version
1056[14:22:35] <jelly> print the kernel version
1057[14:23:00] <Haohmaru> mine's 4.19.sumfin
1058[14:23:04] <jelly> mentioned right after what you pasted, btw
1059[14:23:32] <Haohmaru> "-v" sounds more like "version" to me than "-r"
1060[14:23:38] <tmroland> the thing is
1061[14:23:42] <tmroland> my point is
1062[14:23:42] <jelly> Debian tries to keep the ABI stable when possible.
1063[14:23:52] <tmroland> all linxu distros i ever used return uname -r as actual kernel version
1064[14:23:54] <tmroland> not abi or whatever
1065[14:24:05] <Haohmaru> so they MUST be doing it right?
1066[14:24:06] <tmroland> and it was weird for me to see previous kernel version
1067[14:24:08] <tmroland> after updating
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1069[14:24:13] <tmroland> to latest
1070[14:24:13] <jelly> then you probably haven't used Debian or Ubuntu in the last 20 years
1071[14:24:23] <jelly> or have used custom kernels.
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1073[14:24:29] <tmroland> i used debian years ago but i think i nevre noticed this
1074[14:24:31] <tmroland> and i did compile my own kernels
1075[14:24:33] <tmroland> on slackware
1076[14:24:47] <tmroland> its just different behaviour
1077[14:24:50] <tmroland> from other distros
1078[14:24:52] <tmroland> was confusing
1079[14:25:02] <jelly> nod
1080[14:25:20] <jelly> also, since you're on testing or unstable branch,
1081[14:25:23] <jelly> !debian-next
1082[14:25:23] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
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1084[14:26:18] <jelly> this channel focuses more on released branches, and sometimes best practice for testing is different than best practice for stable
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1086[14:27:28] <jelly> most other distros don't care about keeping the ABI (uname -r) stable. Ubuntu has it, but basically bumps it up on every build
1087[14:27:53] <flayer> the linux-image-*.*.*-*-* package corresponds to both the abi 'release' and the kernel 'version' of uname, or is the abi a separate package?
1088[14:28:21] <jelly> ABI string is part of the package NAME. Version is part of the package VERSION
1089[14:29:02] <jelly> this is all just the name: linux-image-4.19.0-9-amd64
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1091[14:29:35] <Haohmaru> jelly i think it looks confusing if you're eyeballing it in terminal, looks a bit more clear in synaptic
1092[14:29:38] <Haohmaru> ;P~
1093[14:29:45] <jelly> this is just the version (of the package, not the kernel, but notice the kernel version matches stuff before -): 4.19.118-2
1094[14:29:49] <Haohmaru> but synaptic is usually not very recommended here
1095[14:30:05] <jelly> this is deb package file name: linux-image-4.19.0-9-amd64_4.19.118-2_amd64.deb
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1097[14:30:21] <jelly> it has NAME_VERSION_ARCH.deb roughly
1098[14:30:30] <flayer> last time i even looked at kernels was when it was still 2.6 or somesuch
1099[14:31:26] <jelly> Haohmaru, haven't run synaptic in years, but dpkg -l shows names and versions separately
1100[14:31:40] <jelly> dpkg -l linux-image-\* | grep ^.i
1101[14:31:40] <dpkg> ii linux-image-\* | grep ^.i 2.3-5.3 jelly's private porn collection
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1103[14:31:49] <flayer> yeah, it's pretty clear -- but i didn't know about the difference betwee uname -r and uname -v either
1104[14:31:58] <jelly> yes I package my pron
1105[14:32:04] <Haohmaru> i remember some of my first "experiences" with linux, slackware, i had no desktop, couldn't even get the internet settings to wurk, then someone helped me and updated the kernel, i think it was 2.4 or so, or was that kde 2.4
1106[14:32:29] <Haohmaru> jelly i'm not a commandline h4x0r
1107[14:32:56] <Haohmaru> i'd rather click-clack my way safely while i poke my nose with the other hand
1108[14:33:05] <flayer> not sure how you're supposed to determine difference based on the manual either
1109[14:34:12] <flayer> but, luckily, i don't really need to know
1110[14:34:17] <Haohmaru> dpkg wut o_O
1111[14:34:17] <dpkg> Haohmaru: I don't know, could you explain it?
1112[14:34:36] <Haohmaru> jelly wut's ur pr0n doing there ^
1113[14:35:09] <jelly> Haohmaru, okay, but this irc thing can't easily show images so we usually ask people to show info in text format and not screenshots. And that's where command line tools come in handy
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1115[14:35:28] <Haohmaru> sure..
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1120[14:37:20] <Haohmaru> jelly i just prefer to normally use synaptic, when everything is set up properly, and i can "browse" it like catalog(ue), read info, go back and forward, eyeball screenshotz, mark this and that.. find something better, mark it, unmark the dumber one, etc..
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1122[14:38:03] <Haohmaru> "Mark all the best packages" ;P~
1123[14:38:41] <Haohmaru> huh, i'm joking but google probably have something like this ^ x_x
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1133[14:48:17] <abff> Haohmaru: whats synaptic
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1135[14:48:41] <abff> oh an apt front end
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1137[14:48:49] <abff> have you tried aptitude?
1138[14:49:01] <jelly> synaptic has a GUI
1139[14:49:02] <jim> yep, aptitude is another one
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1141[14:49:22] <jelly> aptitude has an, um... TUI
1142[14:49:26] <jim> I got a GUI on my finger and I can't get it off!
1143[14:49:30] <abff> its got curses
1144[14:49:45] <jelly> aptitude also has a very nice CLI
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1146[14:50:04] <jelly> good for conflict resolution
1147[14:50:17] <jelly> between packages. Not people
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1149[14:51:40] <abff> aptitude is good at helping me figure out what I can do to help fix things, while at the same time explaining the output I get from apt
1150[14:51:46] <abff> it basically teaches me to not rely on it
1151[14:52:09] <abff> s/to not/how not to/
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1207[15:19:47] <metrigo> #bunsenlabs
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1262[16:15:11] <stuff_is> Hello
1263[16:15:36] <stuff_is> I have installed postgres and I noticed teh systemd file has a % in the config/seems paramteric, I am new to systemd and I haven't found any documentation on this
1264[16:15:41] <stuff_is> anyone know what is the name of this feature? ty
1265[16:16:41] <ksk> stuff_is: template unit files, if I remember correctly
1266[16:17:27] <stuff_is> thank you, I will take a look ksk
1267[16:17:31] <ksk> see replaced-url
1268[16:17:59] <stuff_is> ty, that is actually the first link I found via google as well :D
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1270[16:18:27] <stuff_is> now that I know the name, I found it on the systemd man as well, I guess I should eventually read the whole thing XD
1271[16:18:30] <stuff_is> thanks again
1272[16:18:47] <ksk> welcome.
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1324[17:15:11] <DanteD> Debian bullseye boot sequence fails for some reason (auto reboots) on new amd apu hardware with kms whereas MX linux with older kernel & mesa works. Any idea on how to debug the cause of the reboot during boot up?
1325[17:15:39] <DanteD> dmesg might have some info but that is overwritten at the next boot
1326[17:15:47] <jelly> missing firmware?
1327[17:15:52] <jelly> !debian-next
1328[17:15:53] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net. See also replaced-url
1329[17:16:13] <DanteD> jelly: hmm I hope it is that
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1333[17:16:54] <jelly> ISTR debian's fw packages do not yet have latest fw for all the new amdgpu
1334[17:17:26] <jelly> perhaps that was fixed already, best ask in -next
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1336[17:17:48] <DanteD> ok thanks
1337[17:17:51] <sney> debian updated firmware-nonfree to a 2020-06 upstream release, but there have still been more after that. ymmv.
1338[17:18:10] <jelly> yes, some were added in July or so
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1340[17:19:02] * jelly investigated buying a amd T14 thinkpad
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1342[17:20:27] <Sepultura> Hola
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1344[17:20:45] <greycat> !es
1345[17:20:45] <dpkg> Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat. - debian-user-spanish@lists.debian.org
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1353[17:33:30] <arunpyasi> If there any issue with iptables/firewalld in buster ?
1354[17:33:42] <arunpyasi> I am unable to open ports with firewalld.
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1367[17:42:42] <DanteD> Is there some way to save lines shown at boot at "/sbin/init on the hard disk" stage for debug?
1368[17:43:54] <greycat> If you're using systemd (the default in current versions), journalctl will show them.
1369[17:44:41] <DanteD> greycat: ok but what if system auto reboots at some stage and I'm trying to debug that?
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1371[17:45:03] <DanteD> I can't run journalctl after the boot
1372[17:45:56] <sney> journalctl saves multiple boots
1373[17:46:00] <greycat> Oh, is this about a system that locks up before you gain control? That's rough. You might not be able to get that information.
1374[17:46:26] <greycat> journalctl can only save previous boot info if it can write to the hard drive, which means you'd have to boot far enough for the root file system to be mounted read-write (at least)
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1376[17:46:57] <DanteD> greycat: It fails after that
1377[17:47:12] <greycat> well, see "man journalctl" for the --boot switch to see previous boots
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1451[18:47:26] <jim> oh, this is funky... I think I forgot regexps... I'm trying to find all three-letter named files in /usr/bin, I tried ls | grep '^[a-z]{3}$' but it has no output
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1453[18:47:45] <greycat> grep -E
1454[18:48:04] <jim> I also tried cat | grep '^[a-z]{3}$'
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1457[18:48:08] <greycat> also [a-z] isn't the same as [[:lower:]] unless you're in LC_COLLATE=C
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1459[18:48:41] <greycat> if you don't use -E then you're using BRE so you need \{3\} instead of {3}
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1462[18:49:03] <jim> oh ok,
1463[18:49:24] <jim> do you know the reason for that? is {} meaningful to the shell?
1464[18:49:37] <greycat> I told you twice.
1465[18:49:58] <greycat> And it's quoted, so the shell does not interfere.
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1468[18:50:37] <jim> right, I thought that might be the case... so without -E, {} has other meaning, to grep itself?
1469[18:50:54] <greycat> "no other meaning"... god that sounds like a trick question...
1470[18:51:10] <greycat> without -E you are using BRE and {3} is just three non-special characters at that point
1471[18:51:13] <jim> relax... not trying to trick anyone :)
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1473[18:52:02] <jim> ok, I'll try this to get my result...
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1475[18:52:41] <greycat> ls /usr/bin/[[:alpha:]][[:alpha:]][[:alpha:]]
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1477[18:53:13] <greycat> (and no, you cannot shortcut that in bash)
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1479[18:54:19] <greycat> ksh can do /usr/bin/{3}([[:alpha:]])
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1491[19:06:22] <GNU\colossus> ,v redis-server
1492[19:06:23] <judd> Package: redis-server on amd64 -- jessie: 2:2.8.17-1+deb8u5; jessie-security: 2:2.8.17-1+deb8u7; stretch: 3:3.2.6-3+deb9u3; stretch-security: 3:3.2.6-3+deb9u3; stretch-backports: 5:5.0.3-3~bpo9+2; buster: 5:5.0.3-4+deb10u2; buster-security: 5:5.0.3-4+deb10u2; buster-backports: 5:6.0.6-1~bpo10+1; bullseye: 5:6.0.6-1; sid: 5:6.0.6-1
1493[19:06:39] <jelly> jim, but is /usr/bin/7za a three letter command
1494[19:06:49] <greycat> 7 is not a letter in English
1495[19:07:01] <greycat> I don't know about all those crazy European lingos
1496[19:07:28] <greycat> if the question changes to "three character commands" then it's just /usr/bin/???
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1498[19:07:54] <jelly> !!!
1499[19:07:54] <dpkg> I'm not your csh prompt!
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1501[19:08:41] <oxek> firefox 68.12, the last 68esr version arrived in debian. What should I be preparing for coming next month? Will I need to uninstall&reinstall firefox? Will I need to create a new profile, or is it only recommended?
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1503[19:09:38] <jelly> oxek, no, no, but typically some stuff breaks going from 45esr to 52esr to 60esr to 68esr to whatever
1504[19:09:46] <sney> oxek: let apt update the package, launch firefox and follow its recommendations. but minor version upgrades will not force a new profile
1505[19:10:00] <jelly> it will be a major version bump.
1506[19:10:07] <oxek> it's a big jump, 68esr->78esr
1507[19:10:28] <jelly> not that major versions mean anything with firefox any more
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1509[19:10:36] <oxek> hence me wondering. Does apt clean up possible stale files in /usr/lib/firefox that are left over from old versions?
1510[19:10:38] <sney> ok, same advice: let apt update the package, launch firefox and follow its recommendations. :P
1511[19:10:50] <sney> it's what I do every time.
1512[19:11:03] <jelly> oxek, there won't be any left over files
1513[19:11:04] <oxek> I'll of course have backups, so I'm not that worried
1514[19:11:16] <oxek> just wondering if there's something special I need to do for debian
1515[19:11:26] <jelly> /usr/lib is not a place for generated files or config
1516[19:12:08] <oxek> not generated, but if firefox68 package unpacked some files there, that are not used by firefox78esr, would those files be automatically removed?
1517[19:12:21] <jelly> not really. you'll have a 78esr or whatever and the same amount of things is going to break as if you'd used Mozilla's ESR builds
1518[19:12:40] <sney> debian specifically avoids having to do "something special" on package updates, particularly on stable.
1519[19:13:01] <jelly> the package firefox-esr might bring some new files and have some files disappear
1520[19:13:02] <oxek> yeah but firefox (and other browsers) get special treatment
1521[19:13:09] <jelly> you shouldn't care about that
1522[19:13:17] <sney> you are imagining a problem where there isn't one
1523[19:13:45] <sney> ,i apt-listchanges
1524[19:13:46] <oxek> I'm gathering information for now, I don't know if there will be problems
1525[19:13:47] <judd> Package apt-listchanges (utils, standard) in buster/amd64: package change history notification tool. Version: 3.19; Size: 118.6k; Installed: 399k; Screenshot: replaced-url
1526[19:13:59] <oxek> I do have apt-listchanges
1527[19:14:01] <sney> install that if you want apt to assuage your paranoia during the update process
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1529[19:14:09] <jelly> they are _asking_ whether there might be a problem. We do allow questions even from people who do not know precisely how packaging works
1530[19:15:23] <jelly> oxek, there is no separate firefox68 binary package, there's only firefox-esr and all its contents are replaces on each and every package upgrade
1531[19:15:26] <oxek> basically I know that big changes in debian, like going from debian 9->10, usually have some documentation from debian about how to best proceed. And a webbrowser is a massive project nowadays, and 68->78 sounds like a big change (1 year of development), hence I was wondering if there was something that I'd need to do to prepare
1532[19:15:28] <oxek> that's all
1533[19:15:35] <greycat> Debian's firefox-esr tracking is designed to change versions as *late* and as *slowly* as possible while still retaining some form of security support.
1534[19:16:16] <oxek> I fully admit I do not know exactly how well apt deals with everything, I'm trying to learn
1535[19:16:27] <jelly> keep backups of ~/.mozilla/ ?
1536[19:16:52] <greycat> you should have backups, period
1537[19:16:54] <jelly> if a web page that you absolutely need working breaks, you can downgrade and restore the old profile
1538[19:16:56] <oxek> I will have (and already have) backups. But downgrades in case of breakage are not easy on debian
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1540[19:17:18] <jelly> good thing firefox is rsther self-contained
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1542[19:18:08] <jelly> it won't be that the package itself will break; it's more likely the new version may break some functionality you use
1543[19:18:38] <jelly> thus it won't be that hard to purge and install an older version from snapshots (that is, downgrade)
1544[19:19:09] <oxek> so if I get it right, if something breaks in firefox, it's only due to the firefox package itself. It's not due to me not configuring debian to do something compatible with later version of firefox?
1545[19:19:09] <greycat> It's possible that some add-ons may stop working in a newer firefox, but the chances of that will depend on which add-ons you use.
1546[19:19:10] <jelly> 45esr -> 52esr broke a lot of extensions. 52esr -> 60esr broke more.
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1548[19:19:51] <oxek> I'm only wondering about the debian side of things
1549[19:20:00] <jelly> if you need eg. java applets to access some legacy horribleness, you need to keep an 45esr setup somewhere
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1552[19:20:22] <oxek> (for those old versions I have VMs with windows and old versions of browsers)
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1554[19:21:05] <jelly> that seems to be a common workaround
1555[19:22:05] <jelly> and probably a bit more sane than /opt/firefox45esr and /opt/firefox and Debian's package all being able to accidentally same profiles.
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1581[19:40:33] <blebz> Hi
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1583[19:43:43] <blebz> Can anyone envisage any problems with adding /var/replaced-url
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1586[19:44:20] <DanteD> Where can I find .config for current kernel?
1587[19:44:29] <greycat> Guess it depends on how well you trust the people who will be editing your web site from Windows machines....
1588[19:44:41] <greycat> DanteD: /boot/config-*
1589[19:45:31] <blebz> It will just be me at the moment... Just on my home network..
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1591[19:46:35] <ratrace> blebz: it'd be better if you used a user-owned directory for that somewhere in ~/ and not what's supposed to be root owned, or replaced-url
1592[19:47:18] <blebz> exit
1593[19:47:29] <blebz> oops wrong window
1594[19:47:31] <greycat> I would argue that if you've got multiple people editing one of your web sites under /var/replaced-url
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1597[19:49:21] <blebz> Lolz.. so 2 different opinions?
1598[19:49:27] <greycat> imagine that
1599[19:50:06] <blebz> I am only messing around at home and trying to learn WebDev stuff it's nothing important at the moment..
1600[19:50:21] <blebz> Thanks for your ideas :-)
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1602[19:56:46] <blebz> But.. it's the principle of the thing.. I guess I will have to learn how to give people individual read/write permissions to the directory via samba without chmod 777 on the directory.. although it doesn't really matter at this stage if I get hacked I can see why that is a bad idea...
1603[19:56:56] <greycat> !777
1604[19:56:56] <dpkg> 777 is the mode corresponding to -rwxrwxrwx and is NEVER the right answer to your permission "problems". Anyone on your box (whether welcome or not) can do anything they want with those directories and files. It is VERY WRONG... learn how to use the permissions properly instead of leaving a gaping security hole to make something work in a hurry. Ask me about <user private groups>, <permissions>, <ftp must die>.
1605[19:57:35] <greycat> If you want multiple people to have write access to this thing, make a group, and put them all in that group. Then turn on group write permissions on the directory and files.
1606[19:58:05] <ratrace> that ^
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1608[19:58:15] <greycat> Also remember that using the setgid bit on a directory forces any new files created therein to inherit the directory's group.
1609[19:58:50] <greycat> At that point the final step is to make them all somehow use umask 002 while creating files. That's where things get tricky.
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1612[19:58:56] <blebz> setgid bit? Whats that?
1613[19:59:00] <greycat> !setgid
1614[19:59:00] <dpkg> somebody said setgid was chmod g+s, a bit which means a program is executed with the group ID of its group-owner. On a directory it means files created therein inherit the dir's group ownership.
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1622[20:07:33] <blebz> !777
1623[20:07:33] <dpkg> 777 is the mode corresponding to -rwxrwxrwx and is NEVER the right answer to your permission "problems". Anyone on your box (whether welcome or not) can do anything they want with those directories and files. It is VERY WRONG... learn how to use the permissions properly instead of leaving a gaping security hole to make something work in a hurry. Ask me about <user private groups>, <permissions>, <ftp must die>.
1624[20:08:04] <blebz> !permissions
1625[20:08:04] <dpkg> For information on permissions, read «info coreutils 'File Permissions'», replaced-url
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1646[20:37:36] <nemo> I have some file system corruption and would like to reinstall all packages on this system (easier than reverting to backup)
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1648[20:37:57] <nemo> I was thinking apt list | grep install would do that for me...
1649[20:38:06] <nemo> what I'm wondering is what the best reinstall syntax would be
1650[20:38:10] <greycat> !reinstall
1651[20:38:10] <dpkg> i guess reinstall is aptitude reinstall '~i' ; or COLUMNS=200 dpkg -l | awk '/^[hi]i/{print $2}' | xargs apt-get -y --reinstall install, or dpkg --get-selections > my_packages.txt , then later, dpkg --set-selections < my_packages.txt && apt-get install . See also <aptitude clone>, <debian clone>.
1652[20:38:18] <nemo> ok
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1654[20:38:45] <nemo> what I was wondering was how to avoid marking all of those as manually installed. I'm just not spotting it in apt-get
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1656[20:39:18] <nemo> so that autoremove would still work fin
1657[20:39:21] <nemo> *fine
1658[20:39:28] <nemo> I guess I could backup and restore selections but...
1659[20:39:50] <greycat> Well, I'm definitely not the one to help you with that. I go out of my way to disable autoremove so it NEVER does anything.
1660[20:39:57] <nemo> ok ☺
1661[20:40:05] <nemo> so you think it's actually a good idea to explicitly install them all?
1662[20:40:32] <nemo> thought it'd be good to know which were actual choices on my part
1663[20:43:03] <greycat> I would imagine you will want to dig up some command that spits out a list of whatever is "marked" as manual, or whatever is "marked" as non-manual, and then figure out a way to apply that list after the reinstallation.
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1665[20:44:18] <sney> !aptitude clone
1666[20:44:18] <dpkg> To clone a Debian machine using aptitude (or install your favourite packages) use aptitude search --disable-columns -F%p '~i!~M!~v' > package_list; on the reference machine; xargs aptitude --schedule-only install < package_list; aptitude install; on the other machine. This preserves information about "automatically installed" packages that other methods do not. See also <reinstall>, <things to backup>, <debian clone>, <apt-clone>.
1667[20:44:30] <sney> see the "This preserves..." sentence
1668[20:44:56] <sney> nemo ^
1669[20:45:43] <nemo> hm
1670[20:46:03] <nemo> that sounds useful
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1673[20:46:58] <metbsd> how do i switch back to old kernel
1674[20:47:03] <metbsd> i don't have display
1675[20:47:13] <metbsd> and i can't uninstall 5.7
1676[20:47:17] <metbsd> i want to boot back to 4.19
1677[20:47:20] <greycat> at the grub menu, press the down arrow key, and pick "advanced options..."
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1679[20:47:49] <nemo> sney: thanks
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1685[20:53:00] <nemo> sney: so. bit of clarification about that. since I'm wanting to do reinstall, that command would still work with aptitude --schedule-only reinstall ?
1686[20:53:13] <nemo> sney: or does it act as a reinstall as written?
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1693[21:00:56] <oxek> pity that metbsd left, would have been interesting to get a report on what his system was
1694[21:02:07] <dob1> when debian 9 will be obsolete? at the new release?
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1697[21:02:17] <dob1> I mean no more updates
1698[21:02:25] <greycat> !stretch-lts
1699[21:02:26] <dpkg> Security support for Debian 9 "stretch" from the Debian Security Team ended July 6 2020. The <LTS> team will continue to provide limited security support for some architectures and a subset of packages until June 30 2022 (total 5 year life). See replaced-url
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1701[21:02:48] <oxek> meaning you should be working on moving onto debian 10
1702[21:03:33] <dob1> I got it
1703[21:03:43] <oxek> greycat: do you simply remember all these !dpkg commands, or do you have a nice list somewhere?
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1707[21:05:37] <dob1> It's not clear to me how the migration (if any) of the postgresql database works when you move to the next release. In release not they just mention to reindex.
1708[21:05:48] <dob1> *release notes
1709[21:05:57] <jelly> tafter a while you remember the hundred useful ones, oxek, but see ircbots.debian.net
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1712[21:06:22] <oxek> jelly: that's so cool. Thanks.
1713[21:06:31] <jelly> dpkg, your factoids
1714[21:06:31] <dpkg> You can search my database on the web at replaced-url
1715[21:08:37] <jelly> dob1, IIRC if needed, the upgrade process keeps binaries for old PgSQL version, and does dump with old version and import with new one during package upgrade
1716[21:08:45] <sney> nemo: not sure, try it and see.
1717[21:09:10] <dob1> jelly, automatically???
1718[21:09:22] <jelly> but I haven't seen that happen in a while. Maybe postgres had just gotten better and can migrate clusters automagically
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1720[21:09:57] <dob1> jelly, if it's magior release from what I know you can't
1721[21:10:00] <greycat> postgresql migration still needs to be done by you
1722[21:10:01] <jelly> dob1, I want to say yes but I don't remember
1723[21:10:01] <dob1> *major
1724[21:10:23] <jelly> I _think_ I did 9.4 -> 9.6 a bit more manually
1725[21:10:48] <dob1> greycat, so dump before upgrade to next release and then restore after updgrare?
1726[21:10:52] <dob1> *upgrade
1727[21:11:05] <greycat> huh? no...
1728[21:11:29] <nkuttler> on my last upgrade the cluster upgrade tool did everything automagically
1729[21:11:39] <greycat> the documentation (/usr/share/doc/post*) tells you the steps, and they're basically unchanged since like squeeze or something
1730[21:12:19] <dob1> I will take a look, thanks
1731[21:12:46] <jelly> nkuttler, yeah, like that, but I don't remember if one had to run it manually or the package upgrade did it on its own
1732[21:13:10] <nkuttler> i had to start it by hand
1733[21:13:44] <jelly> which is not a problem because postgres-x.y and postgres-x.z can be installed at the same time
1734[21:16:15] <jelly> oxek, also, there are often backports so you can upgrade to newer postgresql in advance before upgrading the rest of the distro
1735[21:17:29] <jelly> s/often/there was a backport for 9.6 from stretch to jessie/
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1737[21:18:17] <jelly> ,v postgresql
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1739[21:18:19] <judd> Package: postgresql on amd64 -- jessie: 9.4+165+deb8u3; jessie-security: 9.4+165+deb8u4; stretch: 9.6+181+deb9u3; stretch-security: 9.6+181+deb9u3; buster: 11+200+deb10u3; buster-security: 11+200+deb10u3; buster-proposed-updates: 11+200+deb10u4; bullseye: 12+216; sid: 12+216
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1746[21:26:18] <dob1> jelly, postgres too has a repository that permits to install a specific version to any debian release
1747[21:26:26] <dob1> (I am not using it)
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1750[21:29:52] <oxek> does securing-debian-howto.en.pdf still exist somewhere or is it just the html version at replaced-url
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1752[21:31:32] <sney> according to replaced-url
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1754[21:32:25] <oxek> and yet replaced-url
1755[21:32:33] <oxek> replaced-url
1756[21:33:10] <sney> same page refers to a svn checkout so that seems outdated.
1757[21:33:35] <oxek> the guide is outdated, but fortunately it covers one VM that runs runs an outdated version of debian
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1759[21:35:36] <sney> even looking at the latest xml in salsa, the actual advice is pretty ancient. I suspect more current security instructions are in the administrator's handbook
1760[21:35:58] <oxek> thanks for the tip, I'll look in that handbook instead
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1767[21:46:45] <zeroed> Hello #debian. A soft / generic question: Does anyone have thoughts / feedback / direct experience with an Intel NUC? Cheers.
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1769[21:47:26] <towo`> there is no the "intel nuc"
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1771[21:47:35] <towo`> there are tons of variants
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1773[21:47:45] <greycat> they did say "an", not "the"
1774[21:48:33] <towo`> then, yes, on the intel nuc i had available, debian was running fine
1775[21:48:44] <towo`> but that is helping how?
1776[21:49:04] <sney> zeroed: intel hardware is typically very well supported. if you are shopping for a computer, a nuc has a good chance of working with debian. but without knowing specifics we can only guess.
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1782[21:54:06] <zeroed> Thank you all. I should have been more specific: I think that the question should be restricted to any NUC model from the Ninth generation (replaced-url
1783[21:54:52] <sney> again, intel hardware is typically very well supported. are you concerned about a component that may not work?
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1785[21:55:27] <tomreyn> also consider asus PN50
1786[21:55:55] *** Quits: magic_ninja (~sparkie1@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1787[21:56:52] <zeroed> sney: Thanks. No, not a specific concern; I was just considering if there was something "I should be aware of" and I believe that, from what I read from your answer, there are no terrific and known horror stories.
1788[21:57:16] <zeroed> tomreyn: Interesting, checking.
1789[21:58:34] <sney> zeroed: the only occasional concern is if a component is so new that it's only supported by the newest releases from kernel.org. in those cases debian support is still usually possible, but requires extra steps
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1792[21:59:50] <alex11> !debian backports
1793[21:59:50] <dpkg> backports.debian.org (formerly backports.org) is an official repository of <backports> for the current stable (see <buster backports>) and oldstable (<stretch backports>) distributions, prepared by Debian developers. Ask me about <backport caveat> and read replaced-url
1794[22:00:23] <sney> yes, via backports or (sometimes) using testing or building kernels from upstream that aren't in debian yet. or coming back in a month.
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1799[22:07:14] <zeroed> sney: good point indeed. Extra steps would be the fun part (to a certain extend ^_^)
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1801[22:07:53] <sney> yes, if you have that diy attitude it's usually no big deal.
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1819[22:29:47] <blebz> !777
1820[22:29:48] <dpkg> 777 is the mode corresponding to -rwxrwxrwx and is NEVER the right answer to your permission "problems". Anyone on your box (whether welcome or not) can do anything they want with those directories and files. It is VERY WRONG... learn how to use the permissions properly instead of leaving a gaping security hole to make something work in a hurry. Ask me about <user private groups>, <permissions>, <ftp must die>.
1821[22:30:06] <jmcnaught> blebz: you can also "/msg dpkg 777" :)
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1824[22:30:35] <blebz> OK, thanks..
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1844[22:51:56] <blebz> Does anyone know why when I use (as root) usermod -a -G groupname username It is not adding the user to the group?
1845[22:52:03] <blebz> Do I need to reboot?
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1848[22:52:27] <greycat> if the change is made to /etc/group you just need to log out and back in
1849[22:52:48] <blebz> I see, thanks :o)
1850[22:52:53] <greycat> if the change was not made to /etc/group then you need to verify the command you used, or just edit the file by hand, which is a lot easier than learning some weird command
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1854[22:57:29] <blebz> Does anyone know how to give limited permissions to a certain folder over samba .. so only people who are members of a certain group can edit content in the folder? Is that possible with samba?
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1856[22:58:15] <greycat> just use the standard unix group permissions, right?
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1859[22:59:02] <blebz> It's like if I connect to it with Samba I am not actually logging in am I? So how does the system know to let me read/write etc.
1860[22:59:33] <greycat> it uses the privileges of the actual unix users
1861[22:59:37] <blebz> Or is it if I set my samba user the same as the unix user it will just work?
1862[23:00:08] <blebz> Hmmm..
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1864[23:02:20] <blebz> chownls
1865[23:02:26] <blebz> er..
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1867[23:02:45] <blebz> I keep doing that
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1878[23:08:39] <blebz> So is it OK to chmod 666 a folder but not chmod 777?
1879[23:08:57] <blebz> lolz
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1885[23:15:06] <SerajewelKS> blebz: "OK" depends on a number of factors, but ideally you would be following the principle of least privilege
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1890[23:23:19] <greycat> It's basically NEVER all right to chmod 666 a "folder" (directory). That would completely break everything.
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1892[23:23:32] <blebz> Yeh.. I am lost.. I think I need to study me some *NIX
1893[23:23:35] <greycat> If you want group write on the directory, but only world read, then you want 775.
1894[23:23:54] <blebz> OK
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1896[23:24:15] <genr8_> +x means traverse the contents for directories
1897[23:24:18] <blebz> Well it does seem pretty broken heh
1898[23:24:45] <greycat> "Normal" directory permissions are 755.
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1900[23:25:41] <blebz> I see
1901[23:26:16] <blebz> Well kinda I see.. I need to study permissions etc. a bit I think
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1909[23:34:07] <blebz> Well.. that's weird 775 works.. I don't really fully understand why it works but it works.. I guess I gotta stud some docz
1910[23:34:17] <blebz> study
1911[23:34:19] <blebz> OK thanks
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1917[23:37:56] <alicino> Hi guys!
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1920[23:39:48] <alex11> blebz, for basic permissions, you just have to remember read-write-execute which takes, respectively, the values 4-2-1, and then when you chmod something to apply those permissions the three fields refer to owner, group, everyone else; so if i as the owner of file foo wanted to read + write the file (but not execute), and give no other permissions to anyone else, i would chmod foo 600 (4+2)
1921[23:40:00] <alex11> it gets a bit more complicated than that but those are the basics
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1925[23:40:31] <alex11> or i guess it's probably chmod 600 foo in terms of syntax
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1928[23:42:04] <ska> Anyone know how to cure the "pop" sound that Firefox makes when its started?
1929[23:42:20] <greycat> turn the volume knob down on your speakers
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1931[23:42:53] <blebz> Thanks alex11 .. :o)
1932[23:43:22] <sney> there's a pulse bug causes some pops, see this arch doc: replaced-url
1933[23:43:34] <alex11> there are also other ways to use chmod using rwx instead of numbers, it's up to you
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1939[23:45:14] <blebz> Thanks for all your help. I'm gonna go sleep :o)
1940[23:45:31] <blebz> Zzzzz..
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