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• 1[00:01:08] <tharkun> I am trying to install debian 10 on a machine but at the first attempt it failed whn complaining about the boot EFI loader could not be installed and it failed to boot. I am attempting once again to install 10 but I see that partitions are not beeing recognized. My question is about the one calle EFI system partition a 272.6 MB partition with the Bootalbe flan. Shout it be used as a Reserved BIOS boot area or some other option?
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• 4[00:02:32] <karlpinc> tharkun: A reminder about non-free firmware:
• 5[00:02:37] <karlpinc> !firmware images
• 6[00:02:37] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD images containing non-free Debian <firmware> packages are available from replaced-url
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• 10[00:03:40] <tharkun> karlpinc: I know, and you also know because of the error. Can you lend me a hand to get out of this mess or I am stuck downloading the official iso image?
• 11[00:04:01] <karlpinc> tharkun: I don't know. "reserved bios boot area" sounds right, but that's a real guess.
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• 14[00:05:06] <karlpinc> tharkun: Perhaps the UEFI wikipedia page says what the partition code should be, then you'll know.
• 15[00:05:21] <tharkun> karlpinc: Your guess is even better than mine. So lets see what happens. Worst case scenario I loose the windows partition which I havent used in about 3 years.
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• 17[00:06:16] <BazookaTooth> tharkun: efi should only have boot and esp as flags
• 18[00:07:29] <BazookaTooth> 'reserved bios boot area' is for like the recovery partition on laptops etc
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• 22[00:09:55] <somiaj> I don't think boot means much with efi either
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• 24[00:10:41] <tharkun> Creating partitions and moving on. lets see what happens. I will keep you informed. Worst case scenario my kids will kill me for not having a computer to do their homework today but they can allways use their mom's :)
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• 67[00:35:22] <Delta706> Does /proc provide info on the dvd drive?
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• 81[00:42:55] <teknite> brand new usb3 hard drive enclosure will not stay connected, any advice troubleshooting? I've tried multiple hard drives and computers no luck.
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• 83[00:43:37] <Delta706> teknite, are you saying it is not physically connected?
• 84[00:43:45] <nyov> use UHU
• 85[00:44:11] <nyov> UHU glues anything (TM)
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• 87[00:46:10] <teknite> it's physically connected, and powered by it's own psu. I mean after a short time being mounted and some i/o I get i/o errors and it dismounts, and dissapears from /dev/
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• 89[00:47:00] <nyov> ouch, bad usb2sata chip
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• 91[00:47:35] <nyov> better return it pronto
• 92[00:48:01] <teknite> nyov, you think? it was an expensive enclosure (oyen digital minipro 3.1)
• 93[00:48:48] <nyov> I'd say get a replacement. if you did as you say and multiple HDDs _and_ computers didn't work, there's not much else that could be bad
• 94[00:48:51] <karlpinc> teknite: It could (conceivably) be the cable. You could try another.
• 95[00:49:20] <nyov> or that
• 96[00:49:33] <Delta706> it could be the power supply. I got a router and it would fail after 10 hours, due to dodgy power supply
• 97[00:49:48] <karlpinc> Well, we all know it's not the cable. But hey, a little false hope can be nice now and then.
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• 101[00:51:36] <teknite> I'm thinking the cable might be a false hope, although I've had bad cables before the cable is brand new. At first I thought the usb bus was not delivering enough power so I bought psu just to power the enclosure.
• 102[00:52:41] <Delta706> sounds like you have eliminated everything except the actual unit then
• 103[00:52:50] <teknite> /var/log/messages is not very helpful all i get is: Synchronize Cache(10) failed: Result: hostbyte=DID_ERROR driverbyte=DRIVER_OK
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• 109[00:56:08] <giantmidget> Sorry, I know I asked this before, but would any of you know about the permissions issue I was having?
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• 111[00:56:26] <giantmidget> Even as root I cannot open a raw ICMP socket
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• 121[01:03:40] <nyov> teknite, a brand new cable can still be bad. if it's possible try another one first (borrow from a friend maybe) but it would probably fail faster then
• 122[01:04:01] <nyov> more likely some bad write cache flash in the unit, and because it takes some time to hit that cache and fail, that guy escaped Q&A testing.
• 123[01:04:02] <tharkun> After almost an hour of downloading and installing Debian 10, I get a "Unable to install GRUP in /dev/sda
• 124[01:04:35] <tharkun> /dev/sda has Windows and an LVM partition. Any ideas on how to plroceed?
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• 127[01:07:07] <teknite> nyov, thanks for the help, unfortunately I'd have to buy another cable to do this test, I wish the logs would be more helpful pointing me in the right direction, but that's how it goes...
• 128[01:07:08] <nyov> installing to /dev/sda means installing to MBR, I believe. you could try installing to your linux partition (/dev/sdaX) instead, that should be an option?
• 129[01:07:26] <tharkun> Not an option stated anywhere.
• 130[01:07:43] <tharkun> Currently I am on grub rescue about to add the /dev... line
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• 135[01:09:14] <nyov> teknite: all I can say is the error you see there does happen with a bad cable. but from the computers perspective, there's not much difference to see
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• 138[01:11:01] <teknite> nyov, "bad cable?" was in the ubuntu dmesg. I'll see if I can find another one. thanks for your help!
• 139[01:11:38] <nyov> np
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• 142[01:15:58] <tharkun> ok, back to square one. How do I nuke the LVM and start from there from the installer?
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• 163[01:33:42] <tharkun> Nuked the whole disk and started with the graphical installer. Something is fishi on the regular one. Never had it failed me so badly.
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• 171[01:37:26] <CaptainShell> tharkun: repartition with MBR/GPT when you renistall
• 172[01:38:03] <nyov> tharkun: yeah, it might make sense to _start_ with the boot loader installer in the process, just because it's so crappy when that last step then fails after all the work
• 173[01:38:23] <CaptainShell> Can GPT partitions be booted from legacy BIOS systems (I know M$ chose to not support this)?
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• 175[01:39:02] <CaptainShell> It's quite easy to manually install the boot loader, are you saying that an install where the last step fails is a failed install?
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• 177[01:39:46] <nyov> it is for the regular user, who doesn't run around with a rEFInd usb stick
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• 184[01:43:50] <EdePopede> isn't a protective MBR meant to hold only one single partition entry? i only have an USB HDD preformatted with NTFS being reported as having such. so if either the partition at the beginning of that area includes a bootloader or there is a 2nd entry (which i'm not sure would conform to the specs) pointing to some bootable GPT partition (including boot mark) i guess it should work.
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• 186[01:43:57] <EdePopede> but don't take my word on it :)
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• 194[01:46:56] <RealIdiot> argh
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• 197[01:47:15] <RealIdiot> how do i lock screen with xscreensaver
• 198[01:47:47] <Spida> xscreensaver-command -lock
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• 200[01:47:57] <RealIdiot> i know
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• 202[01:48:32] <nyov> then why did you ask? :p
• 203[01:48:35] <Spida> loginctl lock-sessions
• 204[01:48:52] <Spida> xss-lock
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• 206[01:49:08] <LaScoumoune> Hi all i have question about sdcard ad debian strecht, How can i change the default name, or found how show if SDCARD is connect without name mmcblk0. The second question is why adress is aaa ?ls -l /sys/block/ = mmcblk0 -> ../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1c.4/0000:05:00.0/rtsx_pci_sdmmc.0/mmc_host/mmc0/mmc0:aaaa/block/mmcblk0
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• 208[01:49:56] <RealIdiot> its not doing it
• 209[01:50:06] <RealIdiot> its still doing gnome lock
• 210[01:50:15] <LaScoumoune> yea
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• 234[02:04:50] <RealIdiot> aaaaaaand
• 235[02:04:56] <lavaflow> I'm trying to install kde-standard and apt is 404ing on replaced-url
• 236[02:05:12] <RealIdiot> i cant find thsi in org.gnome.desktop.wm.keybindings
• 237[02:05:15] <lavaflow> (I've already done apt-get update of course)
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• 239[02:05:55] <lavaflow> I see a 19.08.3-1_all.deb package and a 18.08.3-7~deb10u1_all.deb package, but not a 18.08.3-5_all.deb package, so I don't know what's going on
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• 250[02:10:45] <annadane> eww kde-standard
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• 255[02:12:30] <lavaflow> well, I tried installing kde-plasma-desktop instead and get similar 404s with other packages
• 256[02:12:37] <lavaflow> it's like apt-get update isn't working or something
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• 262[02:16:20] <RealIdiot> check ur sources.list
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• 264[02:16:30] <RealIdiot> use anotehr host
• 265[02:16:40] <RealIdiot> apt-get update
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• 267[02:18:54] <themill> lavaflow: what is the full output of "apt update"?
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• 269[02:19:54] <lavaflow> ah shit, maybe this system is partially sid
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• 272[02:20:16] <themill> lavaflow: also, you are better off using deb.debian.org than httpredir.d.o as your mirror host. You'd end up in the same place eventually but via a different mechanism with more redirects
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• 274[02:20:47] <lavaflow> is there a paste service prefered in this channel?
• 275[02:21:02] <tds> paste.debian.net
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• 281[02:22:27] <lavaflow> here is my sources.list and my apt update output: replaced-url
• 282[02:23:14] <lavaflow> I also have a /etc/apt/sources.list.d/unstable.list which I didn't notice before.. I'm not sure if I did that or if that's normal.
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• 285[02:24:19] <jaakkos> lavaflow: not normal, but on FrankenDebian it is
• 286[02:24:51] <lavaflow> ugh, I must have done it years ago then
• 287[02:25:04] <lavaflow> I'm surprised my upgrade to buster went well
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• 289[02:25:56] <themill> lavaflow: what's the output of "apt-cache policy"
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• 291[02:27:38] <lavaflow> replaced-url
• 292[02:28:21] <themill> the pinning you have for unstable should have prevented accidental upgrades of packages
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• 294[02:30:18] <lavaflow> is there a way to list installed packages that are from unstable?
• 295[02:30:55] <lavaflow> `apt list --installed` seems like it might be the way but I'm not sure how to interpret the output
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• 297[02:31:32] <lavaflow> "acpi/stable,unstable,now 1.7-1.1 amd64 [installed]" does that mean this package is from stable or unstable?
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• 299[02:31:53] <warsoul> hello
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• 301[02:32:40] <warsoul> im having this issue when booting (only sometimes) after reboot boots fine replaced-url
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• 314[02:40:57] <nyov> I like the RIP !INEXACT! message. whatever that means
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• 317[02:45:08] <warsoul> nyov lol
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• 323[02:47:31] <johnfg> hi guys
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• 325[02:48:30] <johnfg> In the dpkg msg for stretch->buster, it has this after the link for the upgrade pages: TL;DR:. Does that mean anything?
• 326[02:50:13] <lavaflow> oh ffs, I figured out why I have a frankendebian; it's because I installed wireguard following the wiki directions
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• 328[02:52:32] <lavaflow> johnfg: it stands for "too long; didn't read", it's usually used to preface a summary
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• 330[02:54:07] <johnfg> lavaflow: Ah, I get it. Always new acronyms making their way around.
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• 336[02:59:33] <tharkun> Why on Debian 10 there is no mention of /usr/sbin/ on PATH for the root user? I am accessing it through su
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• 342[03:00:35] <jaakkos> tharkun: you probably want 'su -'
• 343[03:01:13] <jaakkos> tharkun: see replaced-url
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• 346[03:03:47] <tharkun> jaakkos: Thanks for the heads up.
• 347[03:03:52] <acidtripper> did somebody experince this issue: when battery critical level %5 it hibernates, but fails get hang there with black screen
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• 349[03:04:10] <acidtripper> hibernation in common conditions is working okey, configured on grub and mkinitrd resume
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• 356[03:08:09] <tharkun> There used to be a changelog between releases that made this overall differences not so surprising. Is it still out there somewhere or it is just my imagination?
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• 368[03:14:58] <nyov> acidtripper: just speculating, but maybe it tries a different hibernation when battery is critical? s2disk vs s2ram or such?
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• 370[03:16:05] <nyov> though more often in my experience it's the restore that fails on s2disk suspend
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• 373[03:17:45] <acidtripper> nyov, its not failing to restore it failing to hibernate
• 374[03:17:52] <acidtripper> gets freezed trying to hibernate
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• 376[03:18:02] <acidtripper> and i have to push the button to switch off
• 377[03:18:16] <acidtripper> hibernation is supposed to go to disk or not?
• 378[03:18:21] <acidtripper> suspend is to ram
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• 380[03:18:45] <nyov> true. so hibernation with a full battery works as expected? it's not just suspending?
• 381[03:18:52] <annadane> hibernate is disk suspend is ram IIRC
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• 383[03:19:52] <acidtripper> yes, hibernation with full or any battery state than 5% works ok, but when it's in critical.. fail
• 384[03:19:59] <acidtripper> it's different the kde configuration.
• 385[03:20:31] <acidtripper> is set in advanced options on kde, "critical level: hibernate"
• 386[03:20:43] <acidtripper> and the other suspend responds to lid close
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• 397[03:26:42] <giantmidget> By the way, having answered my own question, this link mentions the sysctl that needs to be set for RAW sockets to work, even as root replaced-url
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• 490[05:39:29] <Selim83> hello everyone
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• 608[07:47:34] <dataCobra> Hello, does somebody here use swift.im and also got problems with the expired key for the archive?
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• 610[07:48:01] <dataCobra> Maybe someone who already got the refreshed key?
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• 726[09:20:14] <wikan> wake up
• 727[09:20:22] <wikan> lets do something creepy
• 728[09:20:26] <Haohmaru> grab a brush and put a little make up
• 729[09:20:49] <wikan> wanna pics :D?
• 730[09:20:52] *** Quits: wytchmaster (~wytchmast@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 731[09:20:57] <Haohmaru> uh, no >:/
• 732[09:21:27] <Haohmaru> i guess ya don't know the song
• 733[09:21:43] <wikan> hmmm
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• 737[09:22:33] <wikan> googled right now
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• 739[09:23:47] <wikan> lol i like it :D replaced-url
• 740[09:24:42] <wikan> :me_dancing:
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• 756[09:35:03] <Haohmaru> no, it's not that one
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• 759[09:37:01] <wikan> i know ;)
• 760[09:37:15] <wikan> i dont like system of down
• 761[09:37:26] <wikan> the name is too scary to me
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• 764[09:40:49] <Elirips> Hello. Wondering, until now I used the user 'vmail' to do things like recalc quota, create a mailbox-dump, etc. Since upgrading to buster all of this fails, because 'vmail' has no access to /var/run/dovecot/stats-writer (owned by root). Is it generally wrong to do such administrative things with the user vmail, or should I just give vmail access to /var/run/dovecot/stats-writer ?
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• 768[09:45:23] <wikan> isn't it that if it is root owned so some root process created it?
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• 770[09:46:26] <wikan> i don't use dovecot but it seems to be connected with root process
• 771[09:47:05] <wikan> maybe systemd script creates directory before dovecot forks
• 772[09:48:22] <wikan> i would chown this directory to check what will happen
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• 781[09:53:19] <Elirips> wikan: hm, just noticed that stats-writer is owned by group dovecot, adding the corresponding user to that group seems to work
• 782[09:54:48] <wikan> Elirpis, so upgrade changed groups?
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• 794[10:03:49] <ksk> hola. Do you know of some stopwatch/timer tool for debian? CLI or GUI does not really matter, but would be nice to not have to install XFCE or so.
• 795[10:04:06] <ksk> inb4: doing it in bash.
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• 797[10:04:57] <ksk> Elirips: is vmail a debian user coming from packages, or did you setup this up yourself?
• 798[10:06:08] <Elirips> ksk: A good question.. to be honest, I have no idea. This system made upgrades from jessie to strecht and now buster.. postfix / dovecot was setup long time ago on jessie... I think vmail was created by me, following some tutorial.. but really not sure
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• 800[10:06:49] <Elirips> Can I guess from the uid who created vmail?
• 801[10:07:03] <ksk> If its >1000 I suppose you created it.
• 802[10:07:16] <ksk> but you could have changed/altered that on create if you so liked.. :P
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• 807[10:08:37] <humbot> i like the system where services have an administrative group which can let a user control it without becoming root
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• 811[10:09:53] <Elirips> both (user and group) have an uid of 5000, that was almost for sure me creating that group / user
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• 813[10:11:02] <Elirips> well, it works fine by adding vmail to dovecot group, even after a restart.
• 814[10:12:48] <Elirips> anyway, the quota thing never really worked perfect: There was always something wrong with quota-recalc, so I added a cronjob to recalc that every few hours.. maybe that would no longer be required since some upgrade years ago ;)
• 815[10:13:29] <Elirips> If I remember right, the quota tables were updated when mails were received / deleted, but the numbers updated were wrong by an offset of 1024 or something like that :P
• 816[10:13:42] <Elirips> offset *1024
• 817[10:13:42] <jm_> ksk: I used this one in the past replaced-url
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• 819[10:13:53] <ksk> jm_: thanks!
• 820[10:14:08] <ksk> looking at the packages name I wonder how I was not able to find that myself.. ;)
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• 889[11:05:38] <ws2k3> is it possible to have kde and gnome installed? so they both are useable as desktop?
• 890[11:06:03] <colo-work> yes
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• 900[11:16:58] <dob1> I have to match in grep the n character is a character that I specify
• 901[11:17:15] <dob1> for example the character number 10 is 0
• 902[11:17:38] <dob1> a specific substring in a determinated position in the line, how can I do this?
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• 911[11:19:59] <petn-randall> dob1: Can you rephrase please? I didn't understand what you're asking for.
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• 919[11:21:39] <dob1> petn-randall, I have to do this for example in grep or egrep ^\d{20}0910\d{4}
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• 921[11:22:36] <petn-randall> dob1: Ok, and what is your question about it?
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• 923[11:23:25] <dob1> petn-randall, I have to filter a file based on this regexp so cat file.txt |grep regexp, the regexp is, for example, the one I wrote but grep use different regular expression that I don't know
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• 927[11:25:03] <dob1> egrep '^[0-9]{20}0910[0-9]{4}' maybe
• 928[11:25:23] <petn-randall> !uuoc
• 929[11:25:24] <dpkg> UUOC is the Useless Use of Cat Award. Given out for years by Randal Schwartz on the newsgroup comp.unix.shell. Basically, most constructions that look like "cat filename | grep pattern" can be more easily written as "grep pattern filename". Works for grep and most other Unix utilities. Easier to type and marginally more efficient.
• 930[11:26:02] <petn-randall> dob1: That egrep should work, yes.
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• 932[11:29:08] <dob1> petn-randall, it seems ok!
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• 940[11:33:35] <no_gravity> Is there a quick way to run an socks- or http-proxy from the command line that forwards every request to 127.0.0.2?
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• 980[12:03:27] <centrix> I am using MS Teams on D10, but it utilizes 100% CPU. Anyone faced this behavior? If so, any clue where the problem may be (yes, MS may be the first, but other one) :)
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• 1013[12:19:44] <petn-randall> centrix: Isn't that proprietary and only shipped my MS? If so, then your best bet is to ask their support channels.
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• 1015[12:21:09] <centrix> petn-randall, Yes, though free to use. I was just wondering if anyone faced the same. Thanks.
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• 1055[12:52:54] <amerigo> anybody knows how to execute kdump with a delay during panic?
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• 1058[12:53:31] <amerigo> for kexec to wait a little bit before executing crash kernel?
• 1059[12:53:48] <amerigo> setting kernel.panic does not change anything
• 1060[12:54:05] <amerigo> it only affects the reset when crashkernel is not loaded
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• 1062[12:54:26] <amerigo> but with loaded crashkernel kexec boots crashkernel immidiately after a panic
• 1063[12:54:39] <amerigo> i would like it to wait couple of seconds
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• 1098[13:15:51] <no_gravity> What do you guys think, is it possible to redirect all http traffic comming from a container to 127.0.0.1? So when I do "wget 1.2.3.4" in the container, it gets served from 127.0.0.1 on the host?
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• 1104[13:20:56] <serverman> is this all HTTP traffic?
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• 1106[13:21:11] <no_gravity> How do you mean?
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• 1108[13:21:19] <serverman> for all traffic on the box you want to redirect no_gravity
• 1109[13:21:34] <petn-randall> no_gravity: Sure, you can do that with a few iptables lines. Question is why you want to do that, though.
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• 1111[13:21:49] <no_gravity> serverman: Yup, all outgoing http requests.
• 1112[13:22:02] <no_gravity> petn-randall: iptables in the container or on the host?
• 1113[13:22:26] <petn-randall> no_gravity: on the host.
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• 1115[13:22:39] <no_gravity> petn-randall: How would such a line look like?
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• 1117[13:23:29] <petn-randall> no_gravity: `iptables <yourparametersgohere>`
• 1118[13:23:55] <serverman> yes
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• 1120[13:24:07] <serverman> redirect port 80 to another port on local
• 1121[13:24:16] <serverman> replaced-url
• 1122[13:24:31] <jm_> aka transparent proxy
• 1123[13:24:40] <no_gravity> serverman: In the container or on the host?
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• 1126[13:25:30] <serverman> is the host a different subnet
• 1127[13:25:43] <no_gravity> serverman: I don't know what a subnet is :)
• 1128[13:25:53] <petn-randall> no_gravity: You'd probably want to read up on `-j DNAT` in `man iptables` and `man iptables-extensions`, and then filter it by source ip address.
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• 1130[13:26:13] <serverman> you can do destination NAT if its a different subnet as long as routing is setup
• 1131[13:26:15] <petn-randall> no_gravity: Then you're gonna have a hard time.
• 1132[13:26:16] <no_gravity> petn-randall: The container has it's own source ip?
• 1133[13:26:31] <petn-randall> no_gravity: I assume so, but only you can check it.
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• 1135[13:26:44] <no_gravity> It's just a plain debian image started with "docker run".
• 1136[13:27:17] <serverman> type ip addr in the debian and in the host and compare the network IPs
• 1137[13:27:37] <no_gravity> So the whole "setup" looks like this: "apt install docker.io; docker run debian"
• 1138[13:27:41] <serverman> (in bash)
• 1139[13:27:53] <no_gravity> Now I want that "wget example.com" inside the container goes to 127.0.0.1:80 on the host.
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• 1141[13:28:27] <petn-randall> no_gravity: What is running on 127.0.0.1:80 on the host?
• 1142[13:28:49] <no_gravity> petn-randall: nc -lp 80
• 1143[13:29:40] <serverman> yes but tell us are they same networks or different
• 1144[13:29:45] <petn-randall> Uhh, ok. And what are you trying to accomplish with that?
• 1145[13:29:47] <no_gravity> serverman: How do I know?
• 1146[13:29:52] <serverman> <serverman> type ip addr in the debian and in the host and compare the network IPs
• 1147[13:30:00] <serverman> (in bash)
• 1148[13:30:21] <no_gravity> serverman: "ip addr | grep network" comes back empty.
• 1149[13:30:47] <serverman> no need to grep anything
• 1150[13:30:57] <serverman> just type in and find your adapters that you use
• 1151[13:31:05] <no_gravity> serverman: "adapters"?
• 1152[13:31:26] <no_gravity> The host has this line for example:
• 1153[13:31:30] <serverman> eno1, wlp2s0, your NICs
• 1154[13:31:34] <no_gravity> 8: eth0@if9: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc noqueue state UP group default
• 1155[13:31:43] <jelly> no_gravity: you will have to use a software solution, can't use iptables to redirect from a different ip to 127.0.0.1 (or anything on lo device). loopback is special and takes shortcuts in kernel
• 1156[13:32:05] <no_gravity> jelly: Why can I not route stuff to 127.0.0.1?
• 1157[13:32:33] * petn-randall thinks a lot of time could be saved by stating the actual goal.
• 1158[13:32:38] <serverman> are there no information like this
• 1159[13:32:39] <serverman> link/ether 00:50:56:c0:00:08 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
• 1160[13:32:39] <serverman> inet 192.168.239.1/24 brd 192.168.239.255 scope global vmnet8
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• 1167[13:36:50] <no_gravity> serverman: There is. And it looks the same on the host and inside the container.
• 1168[13:37:09] <serverman> does it end in /24 for both
• 1169[13:37:46] <no_gravity> serverman: Yup
• 1170[13:37:53] <serverman> so the first 3 groups of numbers are the same
• 1171[13:37:56] <no_gravity> Can I make nc show the ip of the source?
• 1172[13:38:05] <no_gravity> serverman: Yup
• 1173[13:38:32] <jelly> no_gravity: because it does not work, because loopback doesn't support half the netfilter stuff that normal devices do
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• 1175[13:39:52] <no_gravity> Ah, -v
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• 1179[13:41:18] <no_gravity> Another idea: Is it possible to temporarly change the hosts file in a way that when the container goes away, the changes go away too?
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• 1184[13:43:08] <serverman> so it should be fine on the host to DNAT to the other IP
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• 1186[13:43:34] <no_gravity> serverman: How so?
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• 1190[13:44:26] <serverman> is it only you going to be accessing from 127.0.0.1
• 1191[13:44:29] <serverman> onthe host
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• 1193[13:45:24] <no_gravity> serverman: How do you mean? I want to do "wget example.com" in the container and see the request on "nc -lp 80" on the host.
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• 1195[13:46:19] <ksk> no_gravity: what are you really trying to do?
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• 1197[13:46:36] <petn-randall> Third time is the charm.
• 1198[13:47:08] <amerigo> /join #ipmi
• 1199[13:47:32] <serverman> so you want to access your container from 127.0.0.1:80 on host and forward all http/dns on container to your host
• 1200[13:47:41] <ksk> no_gravity: sounds like you want to use a http proxy maybe?
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• 1206[13:52:20] <no_gravity> ksk: Not sure if a http proxy usually supports this. It's not like I want to forward requests to "example.com" to "example.com". I want to forward them to "127.0.0.1" but the "Host: example.com" header should not be changed.
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• 1210[13:52:48] <ksk> no_gravity: until you tell us why you want to do that, I dont think you will get any useful input
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• 1212[13:53:56] <petn-randall> no_gravity: And then do what? The connection will idle until you send a response by hand. And I doubt you can handle multiple connections at the same time, such as apt does.
• 1213[13:54:01] <ksk> because there is really like no valid usecase for that, apart from "I want to steal/intercept/MITM someones traffic" - as far as I can tell :P
• 1214[13:54:22] <petn-randall> no_gravity: You're keeping your real goal secret from us, and that's stopping us from helping you achieve this goal.
• 1215[13:54:24] <ksk> and as its your container, it then seems to be the wrong solution to your inital problem..
• 1216[13:55:09] <no_gravity> In the container, there runs a visual regression testing tool based on Selenium.
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• 1218[13:55:20] <no_gravity> And it tests an application that spans a lot of hostnames.
• 1219[13:55:32] <no_gravity> I want to run and test the application locally.
• 1220[13:55:43] <no_gravity> Now this discussion will completely go of tangent :)
• 1221[13:56:17] <petn-randall> no_gravity: Is the list of domains known? Then you can simply write out a /etc/hosts file to achieve that.
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• 1224[13:57:11] <petn-randall> no_gravity: Also, if selenium honours the PROXY env var, you can simply set that.
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• 1226[13:58:01] <no_gravity> petn-randall: Then if the container dies, the hosts file of the host will be fucked up. Additionally, keep the list of hosts up to date would also be work.
• 1227[13:58:21] <ksk> you alter the containers host file, not the hosts.
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• 1229[13:58:37] <no_gravity> ksk: There is no such thing. Containers use their hosts hosts file.
• 1230[13:58:43] <ksk> alternativly use a proxy. should be simple to setup with nginx for example.
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• 1232[13:59:08] <ksk> "lxc-attach -n p1 -- cat /etc/hosts" - begs to differ
• 1233[13:59:30] <petn-randall> no_gravity: Seems broken, though you can still set PROXY.
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• 1236[13:59:52] <no_gravity> ksk, petn-randall: Then I would have to install nginx on the host which is ugly. Suddely the testing tool spans container and host.
• 1237[14:00:02] <no_gravity> As I said ... the discussion got totally of tangent.
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• 1242[14:00:17] <ksk> would suffice to install it on the container.
• 1243[14:00:50] <no_gravity> Gotta be afk for 15 min ...
• 1244[14:00:57] <no_gravity> Telefone ...
• 1245[14:01:00] <ksk> still, I dont get the point of all of that. You do have copies of the "real websites" on a webserver on the host or how can this work at all?
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• 1247[14:01:51] <ksk> use things like httrack to setup a local mirror of websites (preferably in another container), use PROXY variable, etc/hosts, a proxy, to make your selenium container connect to it
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• 1254[14:05:00] <petn-randall> no_gravity: Why do you need nginx? If you're running `ncd -lp 80` on your host, it doesn't matter if you redirect the tcp streams or set the PROXY env var.
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• 1312[14:46:49] <graphicsv> Hibernation is not working properly on Debian with Plasma. How can I fix it? usually when I close the lid or goes idle, the computer just turns off
• 1313[14:47:24] <graphicsv> Also I have multiple users and frequently I have connectivity issues when I switch users on Plasma
• 1314[14:47:30] <graphicsv> Not sure if it's a Plasma issue
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• 1316[14:49:08] <petn-randall> graphicsv: Usually in the desktop settings you can decide what happens when you close the lid.
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• 1318[14:49:51] <graphicsv> petn-randall: Yeah, I selected 'Hybrid suspend'
• 1319[14:50:06] <diogenes_> graphicsv, how much swap do you have?
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• 1321[14:50:14] <diogenes_> hibernation requires swap.
• 1322[14:50:18] <graphicsv> Oh, maybe it's Suspend session -> 5 minutes -> Shutdown ?
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• 1334[14:59:19] <no_gravity> Back again.
• 1335[14:59:30] <dvs> oh noes
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• 1339[15:00:43] <no_gravity> petn-randall: Setting a proxy results in altered http requests. Without proxy: "GET / HTTP/1.1". With proxy: "GET replaced-url
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• 1343[15:01:29] <no_gravity> (If we talk about setting the proxy in Firefox or Selenium)
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• 1350[15:03:03] <petn-randall> no_gravity: Even better! Then you can also test with a proxy, which are typical for corporate environments.
• 1351[15:03:14] <no_gravity> petn-randall: Not sure what you mean.
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• 1367[15:12:08] <graphicsv> diogenes_: I have 7.5G of swap
• 1368[15:12:22] <no_gravity> I have no swap at all.
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• 1379[15:17:58] <petn-randall> Guess the OOM killer just killed the irc client.
• 1380[15:18:20] <Haohmaru> nah
• 1381[15:18:40] <Haohmaru> it wouldn't send "/quit leaving" then
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• 1383[15:19:03] <petn-randall> It first does a SIGTERM, and the client will cleanly exit.
• 1384[15:19:17] <Haohmaru> hm
• 1385[15:19:26] <Haohmaru> i thought.. killing is a brutal act
• 1386[15:19:30] <Haohmaru> ..of violence
• 1387[15:19:35] <Haohmaru> involving sudden death
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• 1389[15:21:09] <petn-randall> If the process doesn't act on SIGTERM after a certain timeout, it will get a SIGKILL, which basically just terminates the process without asking.
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• 1393[15:23:13] <jelly> petn-randall: wait, oomkiller does a SIGTERM?
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• 1396[15:25:32] <colo-work> afaik, it SIGKILLs
• 1397[15:25:40] <petn-randall> jelly: Aww, no I gotta look it up again.
• 1398[15:25:43] <petn-randall> *now
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• 1404[15:30:02] <petn-randall> Indeed, OOM killer does SIGKILL. If you want a polite SIGTERM first you can configure it in the cgroups, though.
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• 1406[15:31:38] <no_gravity> When I define an iptable rule like this: iptables -D -t nat -A OUTPUT -p tcp --dport 80 -j DNAT --to-destination 127.0.0.1:80
• 1407[15:31:54] <no_gravity> Why do I not see it in "iptables -L --line-numbers"?
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• 1411[15:32:31] <quentintototo> coucou all
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• 1415[15:33:18] <petn-randall> no_gravity: because that's a different table. You're missing `-t nat`.
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• 1417[15:33:45] <no_gravity> petn-randall: Great, thanks!
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• 1419[15:34:16] <no_gravity> petn-randall: And how do I delete it?
• 1420[15:35:40] <petn-randall> no_gravity: `man iptables` will tell you.
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• 1427[15:36:18] <no_gravity> Well, I did it via iptables -F -t nat
• 1428[15:36:26] <no_gravity> But that is probably a bit rough.
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• 1446[15:46:48] <uniqdom> Hello, I'm doing a pi project where I do some image processing at 30 FPS. I'm logging that FPS number and it tends to be more than 27 almost every time, but some times there are down spikes where the FPS goes below 5 for 1 or two seconds. I'm trying to track the problem.
• 1447[15:47:03] <uniqdom> sorry. wrong channel.
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• 1451[15:49:35] <sdpojfpoajsqdsqd> hello boys i am a fat loser :)
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• 1453[15:50:07] <no_gravity> So I am finally getting somwhere!
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• 1455[15:50:41] <no_gravity> Instead of routing the http requests from the container to 127.0.0.1, I am routing them to *another* container listening on 128.0.0.2:80
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• 1458[15:50:50] <no_gravity> Via this rule:
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• 1460[15:50:56] <no_gravity> iptables -t nat -A OUTPUT -p tcp --dport 80 -j DNAT --to-destination 128.0.0.2:80
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• 1464[15:51:43] <ksk> no_gravity: ehm? 128.0.0.0/8 is _not_ what you calla private IP-range, but a normal routed address
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• 1466[15:52:26] <no_gravity> ksk: Well, the second container runs locally and has the ip 128.0.0.2
• 1467[15:53:17] <ksk> sure, I can set my routers internal IP to 8.8.8.8, does not make it anymore correct.
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• 1470[15:53:26] <no_gravity> I did not set it.
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• 1472[15:53:38] <no_gravity> I just started a fresh container via "docker run debian".
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• 1476[15:53:50] <no_gravity> And docker assigned 128.0.0.2 to it for whatever reason.
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• 1481[15:55:15] <quentintototo> hello
• 1482[15:55:28] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jelly
• 1483[15:55:29] *** jelly sets mode: +b *!*@95.81.166.62$##fix_your_connection
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• 1488[15:57:22] <serverman> hhi
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• 1504[16:07:53] <uniqdom> How would you detect a process that's randomly hogging the system for about second? It might be an idle process most of the time, but it may randomly work for about a second or less.
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• 1508[16:08:29] <uniqdom> I have disabled LightDM/LXDE and VNC. so no GUI apps are running
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• 1523[16:23:52] <tharkun> Good $DAY upon starting a new install I get the message on the console TSC_DEADLINE firmware bug 0x22 does anyone know about it? This is a Thinkpad with i7
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• 1528[16:26:06] <tharkun> uniqdom: ps aux will list all processes. A cron job might write them down and some awk might help you spot the process. Hunting ghosts is not an easy task. But to do so you first need to define and write down the symptoms so you can make up a strategy to get it.
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• 1530[16:26:09] <shtrb> Is packages.debian.org really down or is it just a crazy hiccup ?
• 1531[16:26:19] <ksk> tharkun: is there an actual proble, or "just the message"?
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• 1534[16:27:39] <ksk> shtrb: works for me
• 1535[16:27:39] <tharkun> ksk: Only the message, I only saw it by chance. I don't usually wait for the machine to start up. I get some coffee to start up myself :)
• 1536[16:27:47] <Leoneof> hi, what does this mean "An installation step failed. you can try to run the failing item again from the menu, or skip it and choose something else. The failing step is: choose language"
• 1537[16:28:19] <Leoneof> iso is not bad, I tried on vbox, still same problem
• 1538[16:28:22] <ksk> tharkun: there are ubuntu and fedora bugreports regarding that message, though they are a little bit older. here for example: replaced-url
• 1539[16:28:23] <shtrb> thanks ksk , I can see it's online now too , thank you
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• 1541[16:28:33] <ksk> did not find anything in debian bugtracker.
• 1542[16:29:10] <ksk> Leoneof: does the "choose language" step show you a somewhat more detailed error before throwing you back to the menu?
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• 1544[16:29:47] <Leoneof> ksk: it's throwing me back to the menu again and again, btw, it's debian-testing
• 1545[16:29:58] <ksk> !debian-next
• 1546[16:29:58] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
• 1547[16:30:03] <diogenes_> Leoneof, how did you write the iso to usb?
• 1548[16:31:08] <Leoneof> diogenes_: I used dd for flash-drive, plus, I booted original iso on vbox directly, same problem
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• 1550[16:32:07] <Leoneof> debian-testing-amd64-DVD-1.iso
• 1551[16:32:30] <diogenes_> Leoneof, is it debian installer or live calamares?
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• 1554[16:34:32] <tharkun> ksk: I read the report, I didn't get to any conclusion. Does it mean that something is wrong at the processor level? And how come it was not reported by the previous kernel?
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• 1556[16:35:22] <Leoneof> diogenes_: debian installer, not live calamares
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• 1561[16:38:03] <diogenes_> Leoneof, try live calamares.
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• 1567[16:41:05] <Leoneof> diogenes_: how to use live calamares? I couldn't find it
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• 1569[16:41:55] <diogenes_> Leoneof, you need a live iso.
• 1570[16:42:13] <Leoneof> oh
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• 1573[16:42:41] <Leoneof> diogenes_: thanks, i will download it :)
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• 1575[16:43:01] <diogenes_> np
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• 1581[16:51:01] <jelly> Leoneof: it's expected for development snapshots of the installer to be broken. If your goal is to help testing the installer, then you got the right iso. If your goal is to install testing, then don't use that. Use normal installer for current release (10.2), install a minimal system, then do a release upgrade to bullseye.
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• 1627[17:10:40] <Leoneof> jelly: oh, thanks :)
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• 1673[17:27:39] <jhutchins_wk> dondelelcaro: dpkg is awol on oftc
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• 1676[17:29:43] <tharkun> upon starting up a terminal session with urxvt .Xresources is not beeing called. The only way to invoke it is through xrdb -merge .Xresources why so? How can I debug this isue?
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• 1685[17:37:25] <tharkun> On a different topic then, how do I configure xterm and urxvt terminal under Debian stable
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• 1687[17:38:31] <nkuttler> tharkun: i use ~/.Xdefaults
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• 1693[17:39:24] <nkuttler> only for rxvt though, not sure if it does anything to xterm
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• 1703[17:40:46] <tharkun> nkuttler: Thanks for heads up, I am researching it now.
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• 1705[17:42:12] <tharkun> nkuttler: replaced-url
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• 1715[17:44:44] <pitch> hey there. i got some strange behaviour with buster on arm64. i gave the permission 0766 recursiverly for a whole drive, but i am still not allowed to write anything on it.... ideas?
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• 1717[17:44:46] <tharkun> Also xterm is not responding to the .Xresources file directives ported from 9->10
• 1718[17:45:14] <ksk> pitch: you are root, yes? :)
• 1719[17:45:20] <tharkun> pitch: Check the underlying permissions on one of the resources you want to access.
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• 1721[17:46:05] <pitch> ksk: no. why should i? i have obvs done the chmod with sudo if thats the question.
• 1722[17:46:08] <tharkun> Also, I recall having one isue with running a program on an external drive do to apparmor, so you might also wanto to check the security context of that installation.
• 1723[17:46:19] <pitch> tharkun: what would a underlying permission be?
• 1724[17:46:46] <ksk> pitch: if its root:root and set permissions to 0766 you will have no playtime as non-root..
• 1725[17:46:52] <tharkun> pitch: ls -lah on the resource you want. If you used sudo to change them you might as well have differeent ownerships
• 1726[17:47:18] <tharkun> bah ksk just posted a more concise answer. ksk +1
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• 1728[17:47:40] <ksk> nah I was mistaken, he set a+rw, so it should work - not thats a good Idea to start with
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• 1730[17:48:01] <ksk> if you set 0766 recusively though, you will not be able to enter any directories..
• 1731[17:48:15] <ksk> take a look at how unix permissions work.
• 1732[17:49:18] <pitch> but 766 should give owner rwx, group rw and everyone else rw. or am i mistaken there?
• 1733[17:49:50] <ksk> you need x on directories to "enter" them, I can only repeat myself, look up unix permissions..
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• 1735[17:50:29] <pitch> ah yeah. now i got your point.
• 1736[17:50:38] * tharkun whispers for subdir permissions drwxr-xr-x
• 1737[17:50:46] <ksk> !777
• 1738[17:50:47] <pitch> there are no directories yet. i try to create new one
• 1739[17:50:47] <dpkg> 777 is the mode corresponding to -rwxrwxrwx and is NEVER the right answer to your permission "problems". Anyone on your box (whether welcome or not) can do anything they want with those directories and files. It is VERY WRONG... learn how to use the permissions properly instead of leaving a gaping security hole to make something work in a hurry. Ask me about <user private groups>, <permissions>, <ftp must die>.
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• 1744[17:51:37] <ksk> even / is a directory.
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• 1747[17:52:01] <pitch> i know that. i am quite comfortable arround my *nix. just debian is new to me
• 1748[17:52:09] <jhutchins_wk> Storage devices can be mounted read-only
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• 1750[17:52:56] <ksk> pitch: how about pasting "id; ls -la /mountpoint"; cd /mountpoint; touch foo"?
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• 1753[17:53:23] <ksk> throw in "mount | grep mountpoint"
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• 1757[17:54:17] <pitch> i figured my error. tab completed with / thats why my chmod never worked.
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• 1814[18:28:38] <piLeoi> Hello
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• 1821[18:32:03] <karlpinc> !ask
• 1822[18:32:03] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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• 1825[18:34:14] <karlpinc> pitch: FYI, I always put alias cp='cp --strip-trailing-slashes' ; alias mv='mv --strip-trailing-slashes' in my ~/.bash_aliases file.
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• 1827[18:35:16] <pitch> karlpinc: sounds reasonable :)
• 1828[18:35:19] *** Joins: serverman (~serverman@replaced-ip)
• 1829[18:35:28] <karlpinc> (This allows cp and mv to play nice and do the expected with symlinks.)
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• 1832[18:37:55] <karlpinc> info coreutils 'Trailing slashes'
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• 1835[18:40:49] <pitch> karlpinc: yeah i got that. as i said i am only new to debian. i use scratch/homebrew linux for personal stuff and BSD for my private servers
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• 1837[18:41:27] <annadane> heretic!
• 1838[18:41:27] <pitch> thats why debian, as a quite stuffed environment sometimes does unexpected things
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• 1840[18:42:36] <pitch> but i love that i dont have to build or setup anything, since the aarch64 is challenging enough
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• 1842[18:43:42] <JordiGH> Guys, remember when we thought that having too many invariant sections would be the big freedom problem?
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• 1844[18:44:54] <manwithnoname> hi all. i am running debian 10 kde. Does anyone know if there are instructions to install kde + wayland?
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• 1846[18:46:41] <pitch> manwithnoname: kde should aready use wayland. they switched from x a while ago
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• 1848[18:48:21] <manwithnoname> pitch: interesting. any way to verify?
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• 1852[18:50:59] <pitch> manwithnoname: there should be a way of searching for installed packages, right @all? i am not a regular apt user so i dont know
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• 1854[18:51:22] <pitch> apt search seams not helpful. or i got a LOT more installed then i thought
• 1855[18:51:23] <Fusl> dpkg -l?
• 1856[18:51:24] <dpkg> Files in package fusl-pr0n: /srv/fusl-pr0n/fusl.jpg
• 1857[18:51:45] <annadane> (shut up dpkg) dpkg -l package
• 1858[18:52:06] <annadane> and probably apt-cache which i never ever ever use
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• 1864[18:53:45] <no_gravity> When you create a socks proxy via "ssh -D 1080 -N <ip>" and put that into firefox, will it only process one request at a time?
• 1865[18:53:51] <no_gravity> I am surprised how slow it is.
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• 1869[18:57:18] <tharkun> ls
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• 1897[19:09:25] <spacebug> I have set up my dlink router to respond to address dlinkrouter.local. My iMac can successfully ping/access the router using this DNS name. However when I try from debian I get an answer with command 'hosts', but I can't ping/access the router using the DNS name. Everyhting fails with DNS fail. replaced-url
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• 1916[19:16:12] <karlpinc> spacebug: Have you changed your /etc/nsswitch.conf?
• 1917[19:17:19] <spacebug> No. Only thing I have done is change my IP to static. I'm using network manager in Gnome
• 1918[19:17:40] <karlpinc> pitch: I always use aptitude, because I'm used to it and it's not chatty like apt. "aptitude search '~ifoo'"
• 1919[19:18:21] <karlpinc> spacebug: "getent hosts dlinkrouter.local" does not work, right?
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• 1924[19:19:04] <karlpinc> spacebug: But other dns lookups work, like "gentent hosts replaced-url
• 1925[19:19:11] <spacebug> that command ran for a few seconds then exited with no output
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• 1927[19:19:34] <spacebug> yes
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• 1934[19:21:29] <spacebug> getent fot goole.com returned what seems like an IPV6 address if that matters
• 1935[19:22:20] <karlpinc> spacebug: Then /etc/resolv.conf is wrong. You want it to point to the dlink (apparently) because you seem to be using that for dns resolution. resolv.conf is either setup via dhcp, or manually. Network manager tends to fuss with it (and break it, in my opinion). You could try changing resolv.conf so it has a line like "nameserver 192.168.1.1". But networkmanager might break that, dunno. You'll have to figure that part out, or not
• 1936[19:22:20] <karlpinc> use networkmanager.
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• 1939[19:23:16] <spacebug> resolv.conf contains 'nameserver 192.168.1.1'
• 1940[19:23:22] <karlpinc> spacebug: You might consider running your own dns server instead of using the dlink. (nsd + unbound is usually a good choice.)
• 1941[19:23:45] <karlpinc> spacebug: Any other "nameserver" lines?
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• 1943[19:23:57] <spacebug> no, only that
• 1944[19:24:16] <karlpinc> spacebug: So is 192.168.1.1 running dns?
• 1945[19:24:19] <spacebug> to mee everything seem correct. All other DNS lookups work as they should
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• 1948[19:24:35] <spacebug> yeah, the dlink is
• 1949[19:24:51] <karlpinc> spacebug: "dig replaced-url
• 1950[19:25:28] <spacebug> hum dig not installed. Which package has that?
• 1951[19:25:46] <karlpinc> spacebug: You can use host: host replaced-url
• 1952[19:25:56] <karlpinc> host dlinkrouter.local @192.168.1.1
• 1953[19:26:02] <karlpinc> (oops, no @)
• 1954[19:26:50] <spacebug> replaced-url
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• 1963[19:29:10] <karlpinc> dig is in dnsutils
• 1964[19:29:14] <spacebug> thanks
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• 1966[19:30:19] <karlpinc> spacebug: Why don't you paste /etc/nsswitch.conf
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• 1968[19:31:02] <spacebug> replaced-url
• 1969[19:32:11] <karlpinc> spacebug: Let's also see /etc/resolv.conf, to be sure.
• 1970[19:32:38] <spacebug> replaced-url
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• 1975[19:36:15] <karlpinc> spacebug: Let's see about taking mdns out of the picture. Try "systemctl stop avahi-daemon". And then "getent hosts dlinkrouter.local".
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• 1978[19:37:03] <spacebug> no, still the same
• 1979[19:37:23] <spacebug> is there a difference with how the 'system' resolves DNS, and what these DNS-tools retrieve from the dns server?
• 1980[19:38:38] <karlpinc> spacebug: Yes. The resolver looks at nsswitch.conf. Your nsswitch.conf says to look at files (/etc/hosts), then mdns, then dns. (And I don't know what "myhostname" does.)
• 1981[19:38:43] <somiaj> there can be, dig can for instance use a specific dns vs the one the system uses, unsure about getent
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• 1983[19:38:57] <karlpinc> getent uses the system's resolver.
• 1984[19:39:31] <karlpinc> I'm still suspicious of mdns and wondering what will happen if you temporarly remove it from nsswitch.conf.
• 1985[19:39:52] <karlpinc> spacebug: May as well turn avahi-daemon back on.
• 1986[19:40:13] <spacebug> Ok, it's on again
• 1987[19:40:41] <karlpinc> spacebug: In other words, the system does not resolve dns, it resolves names. One of the available mechanisms to resolve names is dns.
• 1988[19:41:00] <spacebug> ok
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• 1992[19:41:25] <karlpinc> spacebug: So you could try removing "mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return]" from nsswitch.conf. (temporarly)
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• 1995[19:42:46] <spacebug> Ok, done. Do I need to restart something for it to take action?
• 1996[19:42:54] <spacebug> ah
• 1997[19:43:00] <karlpinc> spacebug: Not that I'm aware.
• 1998[19:43:03] <spacebug> I not tested to ping dlinkrouter.local and it worked!
• 1999[19:43:14] <spacebug> s/not/now
• 2000[19:43:17] * karlpinc hates avahi-daemon
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• 2002[19:43:39] <spacebug> so.. what have I done really? And what else could break now?
• 2003[19:44:11] <karlpinc> spacebug: Now you know where the problem is. Something doing mdns on the network is broken, or maybe timing out and giving you no answer, and you're never getting to the dns lookup.
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• 2006[19:44:48] <karlpinc> mdns does "automatic setup", finding things on your local network without you having to do anything. (Always seemed like a giant security problem to me.)
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• 2008[19:45:24] <karlpinc> I keep uninstalling avahi-daemon. But I see it is auto-installed again. *sigh*
• 2009[19:45:32] <spacebug> I see
• 2010[19:45:49] <karlpinc> spacebug: Anyway, without mdns you have to tell your box about printers and things. It won't just find them on the network.
• 2011[19:45:50] <spacebug> Thank you so very much for your help
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• 2016[19:46:01] <spacebug> ok
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• 2019[19:47:18] <karlpinc> spacebug: You might be able to play around with that [NOTFOUND=return] flag, so you can use mdns. Putting dns before mdns probably won't work because the dns timeout is too long.
• 2020[19:48:55] <karlpinc> I wonder if there's a way to uninstall avahi-daemon and tell apt to keep it uninstalled? I think it keeps getting re-installed because it's recommended by "other stuff".
• 2021[19:50:51] <spacebug> hum ok
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• 2024[19:53:46] <karlpinc> spacebug: "man nsswitch.conf" seems to say that if you get rid of [NOTFOUND=return] then it will work.
• 2025[19:54:25] <ksk> karlpinc: "aptitude why avahi-daemon"
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• 2027[19:54:42] <karlpinc> ksk: Everything wants it, like cups.
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• 2029[19:55:07] <ksk> but there is a difference between recommends and requires..
• 2030[19:55:28] <spacebug> I removed '[NOTFOUND=return]', ping workes but it takes a few seconds before it resolves and start to ping.
• 2031[19:55:53] <karlpinc> spacebug: Yeah. The mdns has to time out.
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• 2035[19:55:58] <spacebug> ok
• 2036[19:56:51] <karlpinc> ksk: Yeah. But when I really don't want a package how do I keep it from installing as a "Recommends"?
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• 2038[19:57:38] <karlpinc> (No matter what package I'm trying to install.)
• 2039[19:59:15] <ksk> karlpinc: mhhm, I cannot find the appropiate manpage, but take a look here: replaced-url
• 2040[19:59:22] <karlpinc> spacebug: You could also look at avahi-daemon. ".local" probably means something special to it which is why your other dns lookups work. So if you un-specialed ".local" that might "work". Except it is probably speical for a reason.
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• 2042[19:59:39] <spacebug> ok
• 2043[19:59:49] <ksk> what the author of this answer writes does apply (all the not recommended to do-foo)
• 2044[20:00:15] *** Parts: mhcelso (b1f437d2@replaced-ip) ()
• 2045[20:01:11] <karlpinc> I don't see anything in the answer that is either A) not global, or B) not specific to installing a particular package. I want something that is specific to the recommended package, not the recommending package.
• 2046[20:01:54] <ksk> just no.
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• 2048[20:02:32] <karlpinc> ksk: As in "there's no way to do that"?
• 2049[20:02:45] <ksk> karlpinc: do you know google btw?
• 2050[20:02:46] *** Joins: fflori (~fflori@replaced-ip)
• 2051[20:02:47] <ksk> man apt-mark
• 2052[20:03:14] *** Joins: rer (~webchat@replaced-ip)
• 2053[20:03:18] <ksk> seems to be what you are looking for. I no-ed because I see it as a wrong thing to do. But hey, its a free world :P
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• 2056[20:05:13] <karlpinc> ksk: I may be reading the man page wrong but I see no mark for "don't install this when it is recommended by another package (or manually installed) but do install it if it is rqeuired by another package".
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• 2059[20:07:48] <ksk> "PREVENT CHANGES FOR A PACKAGE" "hold" is what you are looking for..
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• 2061[20:08:19] <ksk> being installed as a recommendation is what is considered "automaticly installed"
• 2062[20:08:38] <ksk> as in, it will not prevent installation of the package if you say "apt install package"
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• 2069[20:12:15] <karlpinc> ksk: Thanks. Not _exactly_ what I want, because if something requires it then I'll have issues. But it will tell me, so it works well-enough. (For some reason I only think of "hold" when it comes to installed packages.)
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• 2074[20:12:45] <ksk> karlpinc: you cannot not install a package that is required by another package
• 2075[20:12:50] *** Quits: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2076[20:12:55] <karlpinc> Yes.
• 2077[20:13:07] <ksk> that what "required" means :P
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• 2079[20:14:41] <karlpinc> Now I just have to remember to un-install avahi-daemon after every major Debian upgrade.
• 2080[20:14:52] <somiaj> karlpinc: you can disable the install recommends globally
• 2081[20:15:11] <somiaj> problem is you may find installing a package may not install other stuff you want.
• 2082[20:15:16] <karlpinc> somiaj: Too extreme for me.
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• 2085[20:15:40] <karlpinc> There's good reasons for "recommends". :-|
• 2086[20:15:59] <somiaj> Yea, I think there needs to be far clearer policy between recommended and suggested packages. Suggested is rarely used, and in many cases recommended packages should be suggested
• 2087[20:16:24] <somiaj> go file a bunch of wishlist bugs to move avahi-daemon to suggested. I don't like that pesky daemon either
• 2088[20:16:34] <somiaj> karlpinc: couldn't you just mask the service so even if it is installed it won't get used?
• 2089[20:16:47] <karlpinc> Mdns is a weird one and falls somewhere in-between. Surely "most people" want it, because they don't want to know the IP address of their printer.
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• 2091[20:17:15] <karlpinc> somiaj: Masking might be the best choice.
• 2092[20:17:18] <annadane> i've entertained doing --no-install-recommends for everything and seeing how long i make it before getting frustrated :P
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• 2094[20:17:34] <somiaj> annadane: just add it to the apt prferences
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• 2096[20:18:01] <karlpinc> On the other hand, mdns seems _so_ insecure. Like RIP, anybody on your network can just _screw_ with you.
• 2097[20:18:02] <annadane> yeah i mean frustrated by packages not installed, not the typing slowness of --no-install-recommends for everything
• 2098[20:18:04] <annadane> also, aliases
• 2099[20:18:22] <karlpinc> I can't see how anybody wants mdns on a server or anything at all sensitive.
• 2100[20:18:32] <somiaj> annadane: echo 'APT::Get::Install-Rcommends "false";' > /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/70no-install-recommends
• 2101[20:18:48] <jhutchins_wk> annadane: I believe there's a config file option to set that globally.
• 2102[20:18:49] <somiaj> then just remove that file when you are done with it
• 2103[20:18:59] <jhutchins_wk> Yeah, somiaj got it.
• 2104[20:20:48] <karlpinc> somiaj: I think your approach is best. Actually manually install avahi-daemon and mask it. That way if it gets replaced with another mdns client during an OS upgrade I'll know, but meanwhile it will never run and won't bother me.
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• 2109[20:22:09] <karlpinc> (I'm going to add this to my new-system installation notes.)
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• 2112[20:23:45] <annadane> avahi-daemon recommends this thing called mdns which is insecure?
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• 2115[20:24:07] <karlpinc> annadane: avahi-daemon implments a mdns client.
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• 2117[20:24:38] <karlpinc> annadane: mdns does "autoconfigure/autodiscovery" of available "stuff" on your network. Including things like DNS servers II
• 2118[20:24:45] <karlpinc> IIRC, but don't quote me.
• 2119[20:25:50] <karlpinc> Which uses no authentication or authorization. "The network" just "does stuff" to your configuration. Nice for plug and play for "joe user". Not nice for security.
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• 2121[20:26:39] <somiaj> karlpinc: you can mask before you install by just making a link in /etc/systemd/system/avahi-daemon.service to /dev/null
• 2122[20:26:45] *** Quits: jubo2 (~jubz@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 2123[20:27:03] <somiaj> that way it won't even run on install
• 2124[20:27:36] <karlpinc> somiaj: Yes. (I discovered this by accident.) But if I install avahi-daemon myself then if something else comes along to replace it that something else won't get automatically installed because avahi-daemon is _not_ installed.
• 2125[20:28:13] <somiaj> I doubt that will happen, so my suggestion would be set up the mask then just let it get pulled in if it happens to
• 2126[20:28:40] <karlpinc> somiaj: Me too. (But it costs almost nothing to have it installed, so....)
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• 2129[20:30:04] <karlpinc> Now you could argue that dhcp is similarly unsecured. But when it's something you need so there's little hope of doing without. Mdns I can do without.
• 2130[20:30:55] <annadane> things like this sometimes make me wonder if the BSDs do security any better, debian is certainly high fidelity for the vast majority of things but it's also a bazaar model, so...
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• 2134[20:33:18] <karlpinc> annadane: All this is ISC/RFC/protocol related problems global to all computers.
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• 2137[20:35:00] <karlpinc> annadane: OpenBSD rocks. But it's a lot of extra work to keep up with the security updates if you're running anything but the stock os as-installed. And the people can be painful to deal with.
• 2138[20:35:39] <annadane> well, anyway, this is why contributors and bug reports are a Good Thing
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• 2142[20:36:58] <itsme> 1
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• 2147[20:39:50] <sony__> hi all
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• 2150[20:42:27] <sony__> does anyone know if 4GB is enough to install v9 or 10 stable on USB stick?
• 2151[20:43:28] <ksk> sony__: have a debian installation on an usb-stick, or using the stick to install only?
• 2152[20:43:48] <ksk> both should work - though usb sticks are not made for frequent writing - they will die rather soonish - or so I think
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• 2177[20:44:29] <ksk> also totally depends on what kind of system you want to run, a Desktop like KDE will take lots of diskspace compared to just a (web)server or so
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• 2185[20:44:50] <sony__> ksk: yes to have a debian installation on Usb-stick Not to install from it.
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• 2189[20:45:19] <karlpinc> sony__: With 4G you might want to do a minimal install and add incrementally. See also the debian-live project. I think they have images.
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• 2191[20:45:31] <karlpinc> !debian-live
• 2192[20:45:31] <sony__> ksk: I wonder if 4GB is enough or not
• 2193[20:45:31] <dpkg> The Debian Live project provides pre-built Debian live system images and allows creation of your own. NOT recommended for installing Debian. Live images are available from replaced-url
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• 2195[20:46:11] <ksk> sony__: and I already told you that depends - you then again ignored my input and continue asking your original question
• 2196[20:46:12] <karlpinc> sony__: It's enough for some uses, not others. Depends on what you're planning on.
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• 2204[20:47:27] <sony__> kalping: I need to do what I want do with debian OS, not to just use debian envirronement
• 2205[20:47:38] <somiaj> karlpinc: if you were really commited you could use equivis and create a place holder avahi-daemon package that gets pulled in from local sources.
• 2206[20:47:51] <towo`> then no, it's not enaugh
• 2207[20:48:42] <karlpinc> somiaj: Oooh... Sadly, my lazy-enhancer has already kicked in. :)
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• 2209[20:49:22] <sony__> ksk: no, I know it requires lot of space as server, GNOME or KDE would be ok
• 2210[20:49:33] <towo`> sony__, forget it
• 2211[20:49:52] <karlpinc> sony__: You have it backwards. Servers require little space (depending). Desktops more.
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• 2216[20:51:55] <karlpinc> I've decided that write-cycles are not usually the real problem with flash memory. After doing the math the flash always lasts about 10 years or so. (Obviously it depends.) The real unexpected danger with flash is that it loses data if you don't power it up every now and again.
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• 2223[20:56:04] <B|ack0p> hi
• 2224[20:56:18] <sony__> ksk: I agree it's not made for frequent writing... any suggestions are welcome but not laptop or biger device
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• 2227[20:58:11] <sony__> karlpinc: do you mean like debian lite? what is incrementally?
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• 2230[21:01:30] <somiaj> sony__: I would look into persistant live images, and 4gigs is enough for a light system (I woudln't use a big de like gnome or kde)
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• 2357[21:24:59] <sony__> somiaj: I think so, but do you mean for 4gigs only xfce..or do you have example?
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• 2365[21:32:18] <somiaj> Yea, or even a window manager (What I use)
• 2366[21:32:28] <somiaj> I'm just saying 4gigs may have trouble if you use one of the massive de's
• 2367[21:32:35] <sony__> ksk, karlpinc, somiaj: Thank you guys. Thanks all. am gonna try some v
• 2368[21:32:57] <somiaj> also that on a usb a live system is often better than a full install, and there are various guides on how to make a live system persistant (so you can install different software and save data)
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• 2372[21:33:50] <giantmidget> somiaj got links mate?
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• 2374[21:34:11] <somiaj> I'd have to look them up, there are lots of guides out there, unsure if any have been updated for buster
• 2375[21:35:33] <giantmidget> ah, no worries, I'll look into it
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• 2387[21:45:15] <swift110> sup filks
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• 2432[22:43:26] *** Agent is now known as ^I
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• 2443[22:47:54] <norway> alguem do brasil ?
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• 2445[22:50:34] <nkuttler> !pt
• 2446[22:50:34] <dpkg> Por favor use #debian-pt para ajuda em portugues ou #debian-br para ajuda em portugues do brasil. ( /join #debian-pt )
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• 2476[23:22:42] <Guestmt> High brew
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• 2478[23:23:17] <Guestmt> what's steam bullying suggestions xaca? :P
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• 2481[23:24:40] <Guestmt> tell dave's hohoho to livrary on the fly repository
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• 2483[23:25:06] <Guestmt> usb 3.0 thunderbill
• 2484[23:25:15] <Guestmt> byebye nixie
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