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• 4[00:05:38] <N3X15> sine0, the PXE images might have something like that, but designed more for automatic provisioning
• 5[00:05:55] <N3X15> probably via chef/puppet/salt/etc
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• 11[00:08:02] <N3X15> Searching for "headless install" also has other ideas
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• 23[00:15:13] <Scriptonaut> DHowett: not only that, but they were out of the cheap usb drives, so I was forced to get a really fancy usb 3.1 one for $20. But then the lady discounted it to $5.
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• 90[00:50:56] <ian___> is fedora more stable than debian
• 91[00:51:47] <annadane> assuming you mean "stable" as in "stability" (things don't suddenly stop working), likely not
• 92[00:51:57] <annadane> fedora is rolling, AFAIK
• 93[00:52:09] <annadane> debian packages have been through a longer testing process, assuming one uses debian stable
• 94[00:52:42] <annadane> debian "stable" refers to features being frozen, not how likely it is to break
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• 98[00:56:09] <snufft> Hi eveyone :) I'm in need of this package: replaced-url
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• 100[00:56:43] <annadane> snufft, none of those mention jessie-backports
• 101[00:57:24] <snufft> annadane: ahh. I had thought that Jessie was all-encompassing, I'm relatively new to Debian :)
• 102[00:57:25] <annadane> what actual release are you on, jessie?
• 103[00:57:48] <snufft> annadane: Stretch, afaik
• 104[00:57:49] <annadane> you can see that all those packages say "jessie" mean you ought to just be able to apt install it
• 105[00:58:02] <annadane> what does cat /etc/debian_version say?
• 106[00:58:22] <snufft> 9.4 :)
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• 108[00:58:47] <annadane> so you are on stretch, and that package is not in stretch, but it is in sid, so you might be able to
• 109[00:58:48] <annadane> !ssb
• 110[00:58:49] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
• 111[00:58:52] <annadane> or
• 112[00:59:00] <annadane> replaced-url
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• 114[00:59:52] <annadane> (ssb standing for "simple sid backport")
• 115[01:00:00] <snufft> thanks heaps annadane! i'll get my read on :)
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• 119[01:00:32] <annadane> which is different from debian-backports (jessie-backports, jessie-backports-sloppy, stretch-backports) in that the packages in actual "official" backports have a more rigorous criteria
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• 121[01:00:56] <RoyK> we need a smart bot that barks at people asking about testing/sid in here
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• 124[01:01:12] <annadane> stretch isn't testing/sid though?
• 125[01:01:29] <RoyK> no, it's stable
• 126[01:01:42] <annadane> i just thought you meant in response to the most recent question
• 127[01:01:44] <RoyK> just a general reflection
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• 130[01:01:47] <annadane> ah.
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• 133[01:02:04] <annadane> well, we already have humans doing the barking and other humans trying to offer more moderate views :P
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• 146[01:08:25] <annadane> snufft, also it's worth reading the instructions on how backports work on backports.debian.org, if you were trying to add jessie-backports specifically to get that package
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• 148[01:08:33] <annadane> it doesn't work like that
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• 154[01:11:40] <ian___> i have real problems setting up wpa internet on a no-DE debian install
• 155[01:12:11] <ian___> but i want to install the lite version of kde (which SHOULD be default imo)
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• 181[01:34:40] <Logg> ian___, try wicd. it's a DE independent network managment gui
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• 197[01:47:00] <n_blownapart> hi I think I deleted a whole slew of dependency files with autoremove. I was trying to install neovim. how to check the extent of the damage? thanks
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• 199[01:47:26] <n4dir> n_blownapart: as far i can tell there shouldn't be any damage.
• 200[01:47:41] <annadane> n_blownapart, less /var/log/apt/history.log
• 201[01:47:43] <n4dir> well: for sure not any serious one.
• 202[01:48:38] <n_blownapart> n4dir, thanks really? I had a problem with hexchat.. a weird blue strip in the input box. I just installed some gnome 3 dependency files as per online suggestion, and that fixed it....
• 203[01:49:10] <n_blownapart> so I figure other stuff got removed
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• 205[01:50:13] <n4dir> the man page says: autoremove is used to remove packages that were automatically installed to satisfy dependencies for other packages and are now no longer needed.
• 206[01:50:30] <n4dir> so autoremove should only remove stuff which isn't needed anymore.
• 207[01:50:41] <annadane> well, that's literally true but in practice...
• 208[01:50:53] <annadane> it *can* break some functionality depending on the package
• 209[01:50:53] <n4dir> but yeah, in each case reinstall whatever is missing and that's it.
• 210[01:51:03] <n4dir> annadane: ah-ha.
• 211[01:51:43] <annadane> you're still generally safe to apt autoremove assuming you haven't been messing with some of the big metapackages
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• 213[01:52:11] <annadane> kde, uninstall konqueror, autoremove, "the following packages will be removed: kde-desktop <120 other things>"
• 214[01:52:14] <n_blownapart> thanks ALL
• 215[01:52:29] <annadane> also i've noticed apt autoremove doesn't play nice with backports
• 216[01:52:47] <n4dir> on Slackware libs get removed or renamed all the time, so i can't start apps and it takes hours to figure out what is missing and how to install it. Compared to that debians package management seems very robust.
• 217[01:52:53] <n4dir> on a chatty note.
• 218[01:53:00] <annadane> i generally avoid autoremove as i'm not in danger of running out of disk space, why risk breakage
• 219[01:53:12] <annadane> i used to run it ritually
• 220[01:53:32] <n4dir> deborphan is a different beast, iirc. - But then: same solution, simply reinstall.
• 221[01:53:47] <annadane> note: it's entirely possible i'm full of nonsense and the breakage i describe is due to some other cause
• 222[01:53:52] <annadane> this is anecdotal
• 223[01:54:01] <annadane> but yeah i just tend to avoid apt autoremove at this stage
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• 225[01:54:46] <annadane> but apt autoremove isn't 100% vetted, that i do know, it *can* uninstall things you actually want
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• 227[01:55:04] <annadane> anything with "lib" is generally fine to remove
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• 229[01:56:23] <awal1> what was the iptables gtk front-end years ago?
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• 231[01:57:08] <awal1> something like 'gufw' now
• 232[01:58:51] <awal1> in fact real objective via this question is I need a program for monitor live what stuff iptables is blocking
• 233[01:59:43] <awal1> yeah, 'firestarter'
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• 237[02:01:10] <awal1> I remember it have the feature of showing what the firewall is blocking in live mode + firestarter gui runs without root privilege
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• 241[02:03:44] <annadane> i know man iptables has a few vaguely promising sounding things
• 242[02:04:32] <annadane> replaced-url
• 243[02:05:00] <annadane> though on further reflection that really doesn't address montiorsing
• 244[02:05:03] <annadane> monitoring
• 245[02:05:13] <annadane> i'm sure someone's already asked your question, i could probably google it
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• 248[02:06:27] <awal1> me Always googles stuff :P
• 249[02:06:40] <annadane> or duckduckgo or ...
• 250[02:07:34] <awal1> annadane , I heard you prefered search engine is 'bing'?
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• 252[02:07:37] <awal1> :PP
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• 254[02:09:07] <awal1> I know there are several tools for monitor outgoing/incoming connections via netstat, tcpdump...
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• 258[02:10:59] <awal1> I was just wondering if there is any other program doing almost exactly what firestarter does regarding firewall activity, in live mode
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• 271[02:17:18] <Logg> awal1, wireshark?
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• 274[02:17:56] <n4dir> speaking of things you can't do anymore: I am still looking for a replacement for cookie-monster, firefox plugin. That is: i want to block all cookies per defaut, but allow them where i need them.
• 275[02:18:53] <awal1> Logg, wireshark is a good candidate, right. I would like something which doesn't need root, almost for privacy stuff when in public networks
• 276[02:19:12] <awal1> n4dir, in fact you don't really need a ff addon for that
• 277[02:19:23] <ian___> Dpkg tell me about install kde
• 278[02:19:33] <awal1> just block all cookies in privacy settings section and allow what you want
• 279[02:20:00] <ian___> how do i install a package from the interactive shell on advanced install
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• 283[02:20:29] <awal1> ian___, check debian wiki.debian.org serach kde
• 284[02:20:29] <n4dir> awal1: tell me more about it.
• 285[02:20:42] <ian___> I know the name of the package
• 286[02:21:09] <ian___> I want to install it from the installer CD
• 287[02:21:13] <n4dir> awal1: ah, like that. Well ... looks like work.
• 288[02:21:41] <snufft> annadane: thanks, i've been checking those out as well :)
• 289[02:21:52] <ian___> Onto /target
• 290[02:22:02] <awal1> n4dir, well, in firefox setting --» history ---» chose let me chose your own setting ( I no remember exact words) the there block cookies and you have a button for exceptions
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• 292[02:23:14] <n4dir> thanks, awal1, as there doesn't seem to be a good replacement for cookie-monster, you gave me the push i needed. I guess.
• 293[02:23:24] <ian___> because once i install the minimal kde package i dont have to manually set up internet
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• 295[02:24:18] <snufft> I'm trying to install replaced-url
• 296[02:24:25] <Logg> ian___, honestly just save yourself some headache and get it to an ethernet connection. if you wanna install it from the cd look in /etc/apt/sources.list but the packages you want might not be on there
• 297[02:24:31] <awal1> n4dir, not sure about cookie-monster alternatives; I heard about it but never used it. personally I just se my ff to erase all history when I close it
• 298[02:24:41] <snufft> it also says: Depends: libwebp5 but it is not installable
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• 300[02:25:05] <snufft> where as that page lists webp6
• 301[02:25:06] <ian___> i dont have an ethernet port
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• 303[02:25:16] <ian___> but the installer found my wifi
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• 305[02:25:33] <ian___> i can ping from the ash session
• 306[02:25:51] <Logg> snufft, the version compiled and distributed with debian stable may use different libraries, or be a different version
• 307[02:26:30] <snufft> Logg: shouldn't that be listed in stretch though? (I'm a noob btw, so just trying to get my head around this)
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• 310[02:27:12] <Logg> snufft, if the newer packages aren't considered "stable", then they won't be included. sometimes versions of software included in debian stable are years older than what is available "bleeding edge"
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• 313[02:27:47] <Logg> changes might be made to the package to be able to use older libraries included with debian stable. you can use "backports" if you need a newer version
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• 317[02:32:46] <n4dir> snufft:
• 318[02:32:48] <n4dir> !bat
• 319[02:32:49] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
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• 321[02:33:28] <n4dir> that is: if a package is from stable then all it's dependencies should be met, assuming nothing is unusual in the repo config file.
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• 325[02:35:08] <annadane> n4dir, replaced-url
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• 327[02:36:13] <n4dir> annadane: without looking i think i tried that. It allows cookies and deletes them later. I don't want to allow them in the first place (at least not where not needed, say wikipedia).
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• 329[02:36:35] <n4dir> ups: thanks. sorry, too late for being social ... :-)
• 330[02:37:22] <annadane> firefox obviously has a blacklist, not sure about a whitelist, though that extension may do whitelists, not sure, which makes this comment and the last one too utterly and completely pointless
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• 332[02:38:55] <annadane> n4dir, on firefox esr there's an option to not accept cookies and you *can* whitelist sites
• 333[02:39:02] <annadane> no extensions required, apparently
• 334[02:39:40] <n4dir> yeah, i guess that is the solution. cookies-monster was very easy to use (and i am really lame with doing *new* things).
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• 338[02:44:06] <snufft> Logg n4dir thanks for the replies. Got it sorted :) One of the php packages was from a different repo and that was throwing out the dependencies by the looks. Stripped it out, installed the right one and we're good to go. Thanks again for the help and to you also annadane :)
• 339[02:45:06] <Logg> snufft, make sure you only have stable debian repos in your repository...
• 340[02:45:09] <Logg> !dontbreakdebian
• 341[02:45:09] <dpkg> well, dont break debian is replaced-url
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• 343[02:45:56] <snufft> Logg: That's how it's all fixed now ;)
• 344[02:46:12] <Logg> good luck in the future. lol
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• 347[02:48:24] <annadane> snufft, was that "different repo" jessie-backports? i considered saying something about it and elected not to, i should have, though
• 348[02:49:23] <snufft> annadane: no, it was packages.dotbed.org I don't even have a recollection of adding that one in
• 349[02:49:45] <snufft> annadane: so you're off the hook. I hadn't had a chance to do any damage with jessie-backports yet :P
• 350[02:50:24] <n4dir> try harder !
• 351[02:50:27] <annadane> it depends when you added jessie-backports, if it was when stretch was testing there may be problems, but if you did it in stretch post release it ought to be fine
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• 354[02:51:06] <annadane> though i actually don't know how much frankendebian would apply there, there are specific considerations i've never bothered to investigate
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• 356[02:51:26] <annadane> anyway: whatever, problem solved, everyone's happy
• 357[02:53:04] <n4dir> awal1: annadane as i am looking at the cookies settings the proposal you both made looks like a very good solution.
• 358[02:53:57] <awal1> n4dir, I guess so. addons may facilitate the job but they may just bloate ff
• 359[02:54:10] <awal1> btw, what happens with cookie-monster?
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• 361[02:54:39] <awal1> that is bcoz of newer ff not compatible anymore with xul-ext-... ?
• 362[02:54:55] <n4dir> i think it doesn't work on never versions of firefox anymore. Don't ask me which version, i never care for such. Right now i run version 52, and there it still works.
• 363[02:55:20] <annadane> i personally have no desire to bother with a new firefox just so extensions can work
• 364[02:55:31] <n4dir> which is jessie. I only let it installed, as it contains grub. Usually i don't boot into this installation.
• 365[02:55:36] <annadane> just need to wait about 3 more months when we get a new esr
• 366[02:55:45] <awal1> i think ff not compatibel with xul-exts after v. 55 or so
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• 371[02:56:41] <awal1> I am using ff quantum 59+ under sid and xul extensions not compatible
• 372[02:56:46] <n4dir> i for one couldn't tell what was enhance since version 3.5 of firefox (perhaps it was 3, before there was a new version each 2 weeks)
• 373[02:57:29] <n4dir> i sure can say that it crashes all the time. Oh my.
• 374[02:57:40] <awal1> 52?
• 375[02:58:04] <n4dir> no, i think all firefox versions on all kind of installations (salix, gentoo, slackware, debian, what you have)
• 376[02:58:34] <awal1> quantum is lighter I think vs 52-esr
• 377[02:58:36] <n4dir> sounds as if i would use shitloads of distros. That is not the case.
• 378[02:58:51] <awal1> well maybe just bcoz it is a new profile/installation
• 379[02:59:08] <annadane> i'm sure there are alternative browsers which are more universally extension compatible
• 380[02:59:35] <n4dir> i guess my hardware specs are not according to modern times (my good PC has 2 Gig's of Ram, all other hardware has less).
• 381[02:59:46] <awal1> probably for daily use, if not caring too much about privacy, chromium is a better candidate
• 382[02:59:47] <annadane> and by "i'm sure" in retrospect i mean "i'd be surprised"
• 383[03:00:01] <Logg> interesting lifestyle choice n4dir
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• 385[03:00:14] <n4dir> what choice?
• 386[03:01:31] <Logg> choosing to stay on limited hardware like that when you could upgrade it very cheaply
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• 390[03:02:15] <n4dir> i don't see any reason to do it. Besides web-browsing everything works. And "cheap" is not the same for everyone.
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• 392[03:03:19] <Logg> well, I don't know what opportunities you have where you are, but ask around and you can get a lot of very capable hardware for free
• 393[03:03:30] <Logg> just because it's 10 years old
• 394[03:03:43] <n4dir> Ha. But that's what i do. I use the hardware i get for free.
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• 397[03:04:28] <n4dir> to make the story short: I guess you are right. I am so stubborn, this really isn't funny.
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• 400[03:05:00] <Logg> :) #debian-offtopic but personally, I find doing anything modern on less than 6 GB is pretty limiting when it comes to multitasking
• 401[03:05:42] <n4dir> i can only see that i have problems with the Web. I guess i don't do that much.
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• 441[03:40:32] <jm_> Hi
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• 457[03:55:10] <awal1> not able to stop 'yersinia' via Ctrl-c here, almost all the time; "killall yersinia" from another root shell usually needed; nothing in logs. Any clue?
• 458[03:56:25] <Logg> awal1, if I can't kill with ctrl-c, I spam ctrl-z and ctrl-c together until it stops. Don't know anything about yersinia.
• 459[03:57:33] <rabbitear_sdf> you can block SIGKILL, its common in some python projects
• 460[03:58:02] <rabbitear_sdf> ^z then figuring out a way, sounds would work
• 461[03:58:21] <awal1> Logg, no way here spamming with -c; I0ll try with both -c and -z next time
• 462[03:58:31] *** Quits: e14 (~e14@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
• 463[03:58:51] <annadane> replaced-url
• 464[03:59:04] <rabbitear_sdf> ^ usually is for control character
• 465[03:59:13] <Logg> lol annadane
• 466[03:59:48] <rabbitear_sdf> annadane: :)
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• 471[04:03:01] <awal1> -z is sigstp, if not wrong, which background the process
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• 473[04:03:19] <annadane> man page say anything how to kill it?
• 474[04:03:32] <awal1> yersinia? nah
• 475[04:03:49] <awal1> rabbitear_sdf, block sigkill?
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• 478[04:04:16] <rabbitear_sdf> awal1: when your writing a program, you can block SIGKILL
• 479[04:04:39] <awal1> rabbitear_sdf, ah , ok
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• 482[04:04:58] <awal1> but -c = SIGINT
• 483[04:05:27] <awal1> interupt signal
• 484[04:05:27] <rabbitear_sdf> awal1: I have no idea how that program is written
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• 486[04:06:21] <rabbitear_sdf> awal1: you could read about unix [linux] signals, they are in ever process, part of the OS
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• 488[04:07:09] <awal1> I have a good idea about linux signals
• 489[04:07:15] <awal1> :P
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• 493[04:08:10] <awal1> that software may block sigint so, not sigkill. but ok it may just be an unknown bug
• 494[04:09:01] <annadane> i feel like in general, if you think it might be a bug, just file one
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• 497[04:10:13] <rabbitear_sdf> awal1: well, ya, I know only the numbers for kill -15 is default and -9 has a different kill
• 498[04:10:33] *** Quits: msb (~msb@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 499[04:10:50] <rabbitear_sdf> awal1: I find that threaded python programs, are hard to kill, with ^c
• 500[04:10:59] <rabbitear_sdf> from the keyboard
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• 502[04:11:37] <awal1> not sure about python
• 503[04:11:58] <awal1> btw, -15= sigterm and -9 = sigterm
• 504[04:12:07] <awal1> -9= sigkill
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• 506[04:12:08] <rabbitear_sdf> awal1: and yes, the SIGKILL, I'm trying to refer to what it does
• 507[04:12:15] <awal1> :P
• 508[04:12:30] <annadane> pkill -9 pkill
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• 510[04:13:40] <rabbitear_sdf> sometimes, programs capture the ^c, so it can do clean up
• 511[04:14:00] <awal1> people usually use -9 but in general -15 is sufficient
• 512[04:14:07] <rabbitear_sdf> and if the clean up never finishes, the process doesn't die.
• 513[04:14:17] <awal1> -9 not necessary i mean
• 514[04:14:31] <rabbitear_sdf> right
• 515[04:14:40] <rabbitear_sdf> that is why -15 is default
• 516[04:14:51] <awal1> yeah
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• 519[04:16:33] <rabbitear_sdf> capturing signals in "c" the language, is most fun --- when you feel like you know this is the right then to do.
• 520[04:17:08] <rabbitear_sdf> because, you can make your project do a little bit more for the user
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• 530[04:21:59] <JordiGH> does sbin stand for static, superuser, system, or something else?
• 531[04:22:55] <annadane> JordiGH, superuser binary
• 532[04:23:15] <JordiGH> How do you know?
• 533[04:23:22] <annadane> because i looked it up on the internet. :P
• 534[04:23:23] <rabbitear_sdf> JordiGH: superman binary
• 535[04:23:34] <JordiGH> annadane: Where did you look it up?
• 536[04:23:38] *** Joins: banging (~banging@replaced-ip)
• 537[04:23:39] <rabbitear_sdf> JordiGH: you can read the docs
• 538[04:23:51] *** Quits: Haxxa (~Harrison@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 539[04:23:51] <JordiGH> Which docs?
• 540[04:23:54] <rabbitear_sdf> JordiGH: POXIS filesystem
• 541[04:24:01] <JordiGH> FHS isn't POSIX.
• 542[04:24:09] <rabbitear_sdf> JordiGH: what?
• 543[04:24:11] *** Quits: matchaw (~matchaw@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 544[04:24:13] <JordiGH> It's not.
• 545[04:24:20] <rabbitear_sdf> JordiGH: what doc are you taking about?
• 546[04:24:31] <JordiGH> That's why macOS can get away with making a mockery of the filesystem.
• 547[04:24:33] <JordiGH> FHS isn't POSIX.
• 548[04:24:36] *** Joins: irinix (~irinix@replaced-ip)
• 549[04:24:37] <rabbitear_sdf> JordiGH: do you know what the e in eail means?
• 550[04:24:43] <annadane> sorry, that may not be totally accurate
• 551[04:24:44] *** Joins: matchaw (~matchaw@replaced-ip)
• 552[04:24:49] <annadane> anyhow, replaced-url
• 553[04:24:57] *** Quits: SpeakerToMeat (~SpeakerTo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 554[04:25:11] <annadane> it may well be system
• 555[04:25:18] <idustyb> I'm pretty confident it's system.
• 556[04:25:20] <rabbitear_sdf> JordiGH: do you know what the i in iphones is?
• 557[04:25:22] <idustyb> Also hey team!
• 558[04:25:33] <irinix> Is there an install image that is basically all of the install dvd images crammed into one? I just don't have wifi capability on the machine I'm installing on, and don't have dvd r's to create an install set.
• 559[04:25:34] <JordiGH> Are you all sure it's not static?
• 560[04:25:38] <annadane> 'superuser' would be dumb. sorry for the lazy, non effort answer
• 561[04:25:38] <idustyb> Go on @rabbitear_sdf. This should be interesting.
• 562[04:25:41] <JordiGH> Because the binaries are statically compiled?
• 563[04:25:42] <Yndurain> rabbitear_sdf: can you keep the comments topical, please?
• 564[04:26:00] <rabbitear_sdf> I don't know
• 565[04:26:12] *** Joins: ttim__ (~not@replaced-ip)
• 566[04:26:25] <rabbitear_sdf> but why /usr ? I assume, 'user'
• 567[04:26:26] <JordiGH> Man, /sbin on Debian is all dynamically linked, though.
• 568[04:26:34] <idustyb> @JordiGH: Not sure what more we can provide. That FHS documentation is mostly appropriate. I've found that it differs in interpretation between different distributions.
• 569[04:26:35] <annadane> irinix, if i recall correctly there's an image with the first 3 DVDs, beyond that i don't think so
• 570[04:26:39] <irinix> Failing that, is there a way to combine the three dvd isos into a super iso?
• 571[04:26:43] <annadane> actually _finding_ said image...
• 572[04:26:47] *** Joins: msb (~msb@replaced-ip)
• 573[04:26:52] <JordiGH> idustyb: Well, we could find the person who named and ask them.
• 574[04:26:58] <JordiGH> I think he might be dead, though.
• 575[04:26:58] <irinix> annadane, which is why I came here. lol
• 576[04:27:00] <JordiGH> lol
• 577[04:27:09] <rabbitear_sdf> naming things is hard
• 578[04:27:11] <idustyb> @JordiGH: there's not 'one' person :P But yeah lol. Interesting query.
• 579[04:27:19] <irinix> I'm going to attempt to use the netinst on this older hardware, but I don't think it will detect my hacked hotspot on my phone. =(
• 580[04:27:26] <annadane> it's that time of night where i start giving stupid answers to questions. my usefulness drops off about past 10 PM, thus i should shut my trap
• 581[04:27:26] <JordiGH> idustyb: Oh, of course there is. Ritchie or something.
• 582[04:27:30] * irinix is very sad about this.
• 583[04:27:45] *** Quits: e14 (~e14@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
• 584[04:27:59] <rabbitear_sdf> english is always changing language
• 585[04:27:59] *** Joins: SpeakerToMeat (~SpeakerTo@replaced-ip)
• 586[04:28:00] <idustyb> @irinix: Seems like wizardry. What are you attempting to achieve?
• 587[04:28:01] <irinix> annadane, you're fine, hon, I expected that someone would say yes. =)
• 588[04:28:03] <idustyb> brb oops
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• 590[04:28:11] <JordiGH> Okay, here we go, static: replaced-url
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• 592[04:28:37] <irinix> idustyb, installing debian on an P4 that doesn't boot from usb, and probably cannot connect to my hotspot.
• 593[04:28:44] <JordiGH> Although that's just some rando on the internet...
• 594[04:28:44] *** Joins: Haxxa (~Harrison@replaced-ip)
• 595[04:28:46] <rabbitear_sdf> if you think of english as a technology, and the good stuff isn't there anymore, then yes all technology is super sad
• 596[04:28:47] <JordiGH> Damn.
• 597[04:28:53] <JordiGH> rabbitear_sdf: kindly stfu
• 598[04:29:08] <rabbitear_sdf> JordiGH: that is what I have to say
• 599[04:29:53] *** Quits: ttim_ (~not@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 600[04:30:19] <rabbitear_sdf> JordiGH: whats the 't' in stuf
• 601[04:30:26] <rabbitear_sdf> or stfu
• 602[04:30:58] <JordiGH> Good talk, thanks everyone.
• 603[04:30:59] *** Parts: JordiGH (jordi@replaced-ip) ("Leaving")
• 604[04:31:10] <annadane> anyway, i'm surprised the filesystem hierarchy pages don't have an easy answer
• 605[04:31:18] * annadane checks the debian reference
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• 609[04:32:38] <irinix> I didn't see one, besides possibly Jigdo
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• 611[04:33:06] *** Quits: pringau (~pringau@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 612[04:33:36] <annadane> replaced-url
• 613[04:34:14] <annadane> i'm still mad at myself for "look up on the internet and give the first BS answer i found". that isn't acceptable.
• 614[04:35:01] <irinix> crap, i have the wrong iso for a p4 anyhow. fuuuuu
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• 620[04:38:08] <annadane> i have a vague memory that what the "s" stands for is also somewhat cultural, people have appropriated it for different purposes
• 621[04:38:26] <rabbitear_sdf> why books, are better than any "internet"
• 622[04:38:46] <rabbitear_sdf> and printed books
• 623[04:39:12] <irinix> I always considered it to mean "System-Bin"
• 624[04:39:34] *** Joins: llucenic (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 625[04:39:36] <rabbitear_sdf> naming is hard work.
• 626[04:40:26] *** Joins: ryzokuken (uid116283@replaced-ip)
• 627[04:41:04] <rabbitear_sdf> getAllTheseLongStrangesNMs() <- that might change some day
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• 629[04:41:30] <awal1> irinix, amd64 or i386?
• 630[04:41:35] *** Joins: darkhanb (~textual@replaced-ip)
• 631[04:41:44] <irinix> awal1, i386 for a pentium 4
• 632[04:41:58] <rabbitear_sdf> unix is more like the latin to computers
• 633[04:42:09] *** Joins: johnfg (johnfg@replaced-ip)
• 634[04:42:45] <johnfg> I'm out of space on my /var partition (almost). Anyway to clean the cache or any other suggestions as to free up some space?
• 635[04:43:03] *** Quits: BluesKaj (~Blues@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 636[04:43:13] <irinix> huh, I just saw patrick stewart in a windows 3.0 commercial.
• 637[04:43:17] <rabbitear_sdf> johnfg: put in another drive and symlink stuff
• 638[04:43:19] <awal1> irinix, just dvd 1, 2 and 3 ara available as you can see here replaced-url
• 639[04:43:33] <irinix> yeah, I saw that.
• 640[04:43:46] <irinix> I was hoping I could combine them into a mega image somehow that wouldn't break things?
• 641[04:43:48] <rabbitear_sdf> johnfg: 'ncdu' is a good program to figure out what is taking up space
• 642[04:44:03] <awal1> 1,2 and 3 should contain all pkgs, including libs, available in stable branch
• 643[04:44:11] <awal1> irinis
• 644[04:44:22] <johnfg> rabbitear_sdf: Thanks!
• 645[04:44:26] <irinix> so just dl them all, and create a new iso containing all the things?
• 646[04:44:32] <rabbitear_sdf> johnfg: welcome
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• 650[04:45:14] <awal1> irinis, almost 12 Go. do you know about a dvd capable to contain 12Go?
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• 653[04:46:43] <irinix> no, but I was planning on copying my mega iso + unetbootin to a flash drive, and then using unetbootin in the existing windows xp install to create a hard drive installation of debian on the old p4 that probably won't work with the netinst.
• 654[04:47:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1549
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• 656[04:52:54] <awal1> dpkg: unetbootin
• 657[04:52:54] <dpkg> UNetbootin (Universal Netboot Installer) allows creation of bootable USB drives for a variety of Linux distributions. replaced-url
• 658[04:53:09] <awal1> irinis, ^
• 659[04:53:11] <dvs> awal1, his computer won't boot from USB
• 660[04:53:49] <rabbitear_sdf> take off the secure boot in the bios
• 661[04:54:03] <dvs> rabbitear_sdf, it's a P4, no UEFI
• 662[04:54:08] <rabbitear_sdf> oh
• 663[04:54:29] <dvs> the only way I can see is install by CD/DVD
• 664[04:54:38] <rabbitear_sdf> then make sure its matched up usb 1.1
• 665[04:54:50] <rabbitear_sdf> maybe not that far tho
• 666[04:56:02] <awal1> irinis, I don't get you: if you can donate a few bucks and someone can send you all the dvd's
• 667[04:56:17] <awal1> check download page
• 668[04:56:49] <rabbitear_sdf> dvs: join #coreboot, ask, they know the most about why things do not boot
• 669[04:57:06] <awal1> irinix vs irinis :P
• 670[04:57:14] <dvs> fight!
• 671[04:57:26] <awal1> :D
• 672[04:57:42] <awal1> irinix 1, irinis 0
• 673[04:57:43] <rabbitear_sdf> both (even tho I don't know what that is)
• 674[04:57:51] <irinix> lo
• 675[04:58:03] <rabbitear_sdf> o/
• 676[04:58:11] <irinix> well, this might work.
• 677[04:58:13] <irinix> brb
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• 680[05:00:59] <irinix> okay, how to mount an iso from the debian installer.
• 681[05:01:00] <irinix> lol
• 682[05:01:05] <awal1> , firestarter
• 683[05:01:11] <awal1> ,v firestarter
• 684[05:01:12] <judd> Package: firestarter on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.0.3-11
• 685[05:01:36] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: no internet?
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• 688[05:02:32] <irinix> rabbitear_sdf, I *might* be able to get to my hotspot, but I doubt it as of this moment. Unetbootin was able to give me a debian installer, but it can't find "cd". So now I'm using the shell to try an mount it to see what happens.
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• 692[05:03:26] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: if the image is on your local drive, 'hard drive' then you can use loopback
• 693[05:03:28] *** Joins: noobineer (~noobineer@replaced-ip)
• 694[05:03:45] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: you in all cases in shell use 'mount'
• 695[05:04:30] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: loopback (iso as a file on a drive) would take '-o loop'
• 696[05:04:44] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: the filename of the iso, plus where to mount it
• 697[05:04:59] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: any directory (where to mount it)
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• 700[05:06:30] <irinix> it's a matter of finding the drive.
• 701[05:06:35] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: mount [some options if necessary, usually not] <WHAT-YOU-WANT-TO-MOUNT> <WHERE>
• 702[05:06:44] <irinix> and mount is not liking the usb drive.
• 703[05:06:45] <irinix> =(
• 704[05:06:50] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: ls /dev/sd*
• 705[05:06:59] <irinix> it's /dev/sdb
• 706[05:07:03] <rabbitear_sdf> maybe
• 707[05:07:21] <rabbitear_sdf> so 'mount /dev/sdb /mnt
• 708[05:07:34] *** Joins: yeshurun (~yeshurun@replaced-ip)
• 709[05:07:37] <annadane> it's the order detected so lsblk and then find what looks right given what you know about its attributes (size etc)
• 710[05:07:47] <irinix> yeah, I get mount: mounting failed: invalid argument.
• 711[05:07:49] <rabbitear_sdf> or any place, /mnt might not be what you want, normally new install, it is
• 712[05:08:02] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: stop using the args
• 713[05:08:09] <irinix> no args used.
• 714[05:08:20] <rabbitear_sdf> mount /dev/sdb{n} /mnt
• 715[05:08:22] <annadane> though i think you can change that behavior via udev
• 716[05:08:41] <rabbitear_sdf> because it doesn't want to mount a disk, mount wants to mount a partition of the disk
• 717[05:09:01] <awal1> ,v firewalld
• 718[05:09:02] <judd> Package: firewalld on amd64 -- jessie: 0.3.12-1; stretch: 0.4.4.2-1; buster: 0.4.4.6-1; sid: 0.4.4.6-1
• 719[05:09:08] <irinix> I bet its because its an ntfs flash drive.
• 720[05:09:08] <rabbitear_sdf> annadane: you're way adding bad information
• 721[05:09:35] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: dmesg ...... see what the /dev/<drive> is
• 722[05:09:53] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: sdcards are like /dev/mm*
• 723[05:10:12] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: read your logs
• 724[05:10:22] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: where that drive actually landed
• 725[05:10:39] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: mount wants a partition
• 726[05:11:02] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: why you use a loopback if its a file, to get to the partitions
• 727[05:11:29] <rabbitear_sdf> wait, I take that last thing back ....... but irinix read your logs
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• 729[05:13:25] <RM982> guys I have this VM which I want to port to physical hardware, what would be the proper way to create a full disk image and restore it somewhere else?
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• 731[05:15:51] <rabbitear_sdf> RM982: google it
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• 733[05:19:55] <irinix> rabbitear_sdf, yes, it was ntfs, and I know how much debian hates ntfs.
• 734[05:19:56] <irinix> lol
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• 736[05:21:00] <irinix> the next big question is once I get that mounted, can I get it to connect to my hotspot, I don't think the hardware supports wpa2 and my hotspot doesn't let me run unsecured. =(
• 737[05:21:09] <irinix> I might have to finangle some thins.
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• 740[05:22:55] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: debian9 is gonna do all the wireless WPA that exists today
• 741[05:23:14] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: via the installer even
• 742[05:23:21] *** Joins: Haxxa (~Harrison@replaced-ip)
• 743[05:24:21] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: it would be funny, and not funny at the same time, when you start seeing routers based on windows(tm)
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• 746[05:25:24] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: all consumer and non-consumer routers to date, are based of linux or iso which is based of unix
• 747[05:26:09] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: their 'secret code' is the UI to the router
• 748[05:26:40] *** Joins: Ricardo__ (~rick@replaced-ip)
• 749[05:26:42] <irinix> progress is being made
• 750[05:26:49] <rabbitear_sdf> :)
• 751[05:26:58] <irinix> rabbitear_sdf, I think the hardware won't support it.
• 752[05:27:20] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: well, its 2018
• 753[05:27:24] <irinix> but, now, the shell is locked up after executing mount -o loop /mnt/debian.iso /cdrom/
• 754[05:27:40] <irinix> rabbitear_sdf, this hardware is circa 03
• 755[05:27:54] <irinix> and crappy hp hardware at that
• 756[05:27:57] <crimson_king> In Brazil, we have Intelbras, a company selling very configurable Linux based routers. They're all around the country. I bought one. You check the router logs and smile at the familiarity of everything there (:
• 757[05:28:05] <rabbitear_sdf> is your cdrom on /cdrom/ ?
• 758[05:28:20] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: mount it to a free directory .... sometimes /mnt
• 759[05:28:38] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: mkdir a directory and mount your loopback there
• 760[05:28:50] <irinix> d'oh
• 761[05:29:00] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: any directory with nothing in it
• 762[05:29:02] <irinix> fuhhhhh it's been a long time since I've had to cobble an install together.
• 763[05:29:17] <crimson_king> Also, all government buildings and banks run Debian or Ubuntu. I saw a password machine booting Debian 8 some time ago at a bank.
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• 766[05:29:43] <irinix> and it's still hanging on mount
• 767[05:30:01] <rabbitear_sdf> crimson_king: yeah... its the best way, it was a long time ago too
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• 770[05:30:22] <crimson_king> that's only thanks to groups like C3SL at the Federal University of Parana who maintains "Educational Linux" for schools and promotes free software around here (:
• 771[05:30:48] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: switch shells ... maybe kill that mount process if taking too long
• 772[05:30:56] <irinix> can't switch shells.
• 773[05:31:06] <irinix> The only shell the debian installer gives me is ASH
• 774[05:31:41] <irinix> I can hear the computer *trying* to mount it. cpu fan is spooling way up....
• 775[05:31:42] <rabbitear_sdf> crimson_king: its in my opinion, the best mindset to have.
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• 777[05:31:59] <crimson_king> rabbitear_sdf, yeah
• 778[05:32:25] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: it'll probably fail in like 5-10 minutes
• 779[05:32:35] <irinix> wonder why it's not mounting?
• 780[05:33:17] <rabbitear_sdf> if you type 'mount' it will display what is already mounted currently
• 781[05:33:46] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: you say p4, you have to watch, if /cdrom/ really gets the CD-ROM
• 782[05:34:21] <irinix> perhaps it's because the system is running in ram, and this system is ram starved??
• 783[05:34:59] <rabbitear_sdf> no, a mount shouldn't take up much ram
• 784[05:35:14] <irinix> it also just destroyed the shell....badly
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• 786[05:35:22] <rabbitear_sdf> reboot maybe
• 787[05:35:24] <irinix> I relaunched the shell and it was still messed up. had to reboot the installation.
• 788[05:35:27] <irinix> lol
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• 790[05:35:44] <rabbitear_sdf> since its an install...
• 791[05:35:46] <irinix> This is going to be a fun night.
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• 794[05:36:26] <rabbitear_sdf> well, yeah, you CAN install without rebooting... but, sometimes that is a waist of time ..
• 795[05:36:52] <irinix> yeah, at this point, it's a matter of just getting the installer started
• 796[05:36:55] <rabbitear_sdf> whats really not a waist of time, is KNOWING how that *doesn't* or *can* boot on usb
• 797[05:37:10] <irinix> the machine doesn't support it.
• 798[05:37:30] <irinix> hp zd7020us
• 799[05:37:45] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: I would --- pull out the harddrive, install debian on a different machine, and put it back in
• 800[05:38:00] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: cut loss
• 801[05:38:09] <irinix> where's the fun in that?
• 802[05:38:13] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: I been there
• 803[05:38:22] <rabbitear_sdf> well, you can learn :)
• 804[05:38:27] <rabbitear_sdf> good to learn.
• 805[05:38:37] <irinix> and then I'd still have have to find a way to properly build grub, which always f****s up when I try to do it that way
• 806[05:38:45] <RM982> guys I have this VM which I want to port to physical hardware, what would be the proper way to create a full disk image and restore it somewhere else?
• 807[05:38:57] <irinix> I mean, I'm about 30 seconds from just doing it that way. but you know, I want to see if it can be done
• 808[05:39:13] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: ....... yeah, don't worry too much
• 809[05:39:31] <irinix> ?
• 810[05:39:55] <rabbitear_sdf> ......................
• 811[05:40:06] <rabbitear_sdf> I haven't done that in awhile
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• 814[05:40:12] <rabbitear_sdf> but its a P4
• 815[05:40:27] <rabbitear_sdf> you have to get the root partition correct
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• 817[05:40:51] <rabbitear_sdf> and then the (hdx,x) thing
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• 819[05:41:18] <irinix> okay, let's see if this cp works this time. ARGH! why does ASH keep crashing when I'm working with that iso file?
• 820[05:41:25] *** Quits: vivid (~ViViD@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 821[05:42:27] <irinix> Wait a second.
• 822[05:42:36] *** Joins: vivid (~ViViD@replaced-ip)
• 823[05:43:04] <irinix> That laptop *does* support usb boot.
• 824[05:43:14] <irinix> I missed the option in BIOS
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• 826[05:44:36] <dvs> ???
• 827[05:44:44] <annadane> :)
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• 829[05:44:45] *** Wulf4 is now known as Wulf
• 830[05:44:51] <dvs> Well, that'll make it easy.
• 831[05:45:02] <irinix> yes
• 832[05:45:04] * annadane is giggling
• 833[05:45:10] * irinix is dying of shame
• 834[05:45:14] <irinix> under boot options
• 835[05:45:23] * dvs eats some popcorn
• 836[05:45:30] <irinix> there's advanced. then there's "Hard drive boot options"
• 837[05:45:44] <irinix> then in there there is "Enable advanced parameters".
• 838[05:45:57] <irinix> which finally gives "Enable USB Hard Drive Booting"
• 839[05:46:14] <irinix> F****cking HP
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• 843[05:52:22] <annadane> sounds difficult. i'm sorry. good luck. i have faith in you. here's a puppy. replaced-url
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• 847[05:52:37] <nauticalnexus> PUPPY
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• 897[06:07:08] <irinix> and, I'm an idiot. =(
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• 899[06:07:33] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: hack it
• 900[06:07:58] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: all "app"s was made of other things.
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• 908[06:18:49] <shingouz> is there a sane way to go from 32bit to 64bit without a full reinstall? apt-magic abracadabra-update, perhaps?
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• 915[06:21:57] <irinix> *sigh*
• 916[06:22:11] <irinix> now it won't boot due to a disk error. trying building the disk again.
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• 919[06:24:00] <annadane> "man apt-magic"
• 920[06:24:05] <annadane> (but no, i don't know)
• 921[06:25:09] <annadane> i found a stackexchange of "how to do it" (aka it's complicated and pray that it works and not officially supported) however it, like all stackexchange answers, is from 5+ years ago
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• 925[06:29:37] <Unit193> I tried it in VM once, it did not go well.
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• 927[06:32:32] <irinix> okay, switching distros since the laptop requires non-free firmware
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• 929[06:33:43] <annadane> :(
• 930[06:33:53] <shingouz> sounds like i get to do a reinstall. fortunately i have not yet done any serious customizations on this one as i have not yet started using this as my main computer
• 931[06:33:54] <annadane> or try the image with non-free firmware
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• 948[06:52:16] <irinix> either way I have to wait forever and a day for my whopping 1.3Mb/s connection to download it. =9
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• 951[06:55:55] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: welcome to 1999
• 952[06:55:57] *** Joins: Evol (~no@replaced-ip)
• 953[06:56:22] <annadane> krrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
• 954[06:56:28] <annadane> that was my dial-up sound impression.
• 955[06:56:31] <annadane> you're welcome.
• 956[06:56:41] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: the debian net-dev or whatever its called, is only 40mb's
• 957[06:56:48] <rabbitear_sdf> not gb's mb's
• 958[06:56:59] *** Quits: jimm (~jim@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 959[06:57:34] <rabbitear_sdf> 30k/sec was fast in 1999 --- to most places
• 960[06:57:47] <rabbitear_sdf> something like that......
• 961[06:59:06] <irinix> rabbitear_sdf, yes, it's still estimated 30+ minutes
• 962[06:59:10] <rabbitear_sdf> in an odd way, those kinds of connections are good, because you can sit and chill, and talk to people
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• 964[06:59:26] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: whatev
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• 972[07:00:41] <rabbitear_sdf> everybody is facebook style which is discussing to to them [those who don't part take]
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• 974[07:00:56] <irinix> rabbitear_sdf, I don't understand what you mean.
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• 976[07:01:18] <rabbitear_sdf> thats crap, that they got all your means
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• 978[07:01:34] <irinix> ???
• 979[07:01:48] <rabbitear_sdf> atleast irc is actually alot more 'we ain't like this one'
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• 981[07:01:54] <irinix> Ooooh 3.8Mb/s
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• 984[07:02:36] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: I been reading more books these days
• 985[07:02:44] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: way offline.
• 986[07:03:15] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: I still love irc, well, just because
• 987[07:03:33] <rabbitear_sdf> but google even/facebook/twitter
• 988[07:03:45] <rabbitear_sdf> no.......
• 989[07:04:17] <rabbitear_sdf> only because I got family that doesn't dig deep most of the time in computer crap
• 990[07:05:01] <rabbitear_sdf> everything in the news about computers, is like 10 years old atleast.
• 991[07:05:08] <rabbitear_sdf> thats a sign
• 992[07:07:06] <irinix> irc is love, irc is life.
• 993[07:07:13] <irinix> It's my favorite socialist network.
• 994[07:07:20] <rabbitear_sdf> lol
• 995[07:07:28] <rabbitear_sdf> it still works.
• 996[07:07:42] <irinix> Yay! I'm finally at DSL speeds.
• 997[07:07:48] <irinix> 12Mb/s
• 998[07:07:56] <rabbitear_sdf> doesn't change voters attitudes mostly.
• 999[07:08:10] <irinix> not at all.
• 1000[07:08:20] <rabbitear_sdf> which was really obvious a long time ago
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• 1004[07:08:48] <rabbitear_sdf> I suppose it is 'OUR' fault, for not being able to explain it correctly.
• 1005[07:08:55] <irinix> *sigh* let's see if this works this time.
• 1006[07:08:58] <rabbitear_sdf> is what it is, no worries
• 1007[07:09:08] <irinix> I feel like the whole political system just needs to die
• 1008[07:09:21] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: well
• 1009[07:09:40] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: thats not happening in the short term
• 1010[07:09:50] <irinix> I'm tired of democrats arguing with republicans because they're republicans, not because they actually disagree and vice versa.
• 1011[07:10:05] <rabbitear_sdf> yes
• 1012[07:10:17] <rabbitear_sdf> I got that too
• 1013[07:10:18] <irinix> The Founding Fathers did not want a two party system, they specifically said that a two party system would be the death of our nation
• 1014[07:10:29] <rabbitear_sdf> I don't even care who I am anymore
• 1015[07:10:53] <irinix> and these f**ksticks keep splitting us apart based on some arbitrary political party, and it's getting ridiculous
• 1016[07:11:06] <rabbitear_sdf> its totally, off the rails, this is like kids in 5th grade school
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• 1018[07:12:50] *** Joins: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip)
• 1019[07:12:50] <rabbitear_sdf> I guess they feel like they have to get down to the meet of the issues
• 1020[07:12:54] *** Quits: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1021[07:13:05] <rabbitear_sdf> which isn't always money.
• 1022[07:13:47] <rabbitear_sdf> in fact, not much about money in public politics
• 1023[07:13:55] <irinix> no it isn't. What bothers me the most is that it's become *so* darned divisive and there seems to be no way to pull it back together.
• 1024[07:14:14] *** Joins: stuv (~chatzilla@replaced-ip)
• 1025[07:15:27] <stuv> hi all, i'm trying to isntall nvidia-driver but i get this "replaced-url
• 1026[07:15:31] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: well, you can take divisivity as fully homeless vs. need to protect my "goods" at all costs, --- I see it
• 1027[07:15:41] *** Quits: tec__ (~aegis@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 1028[07:16:14] <annadane> ,v nvidia-kernel-dkms
• 1029[07:16:14] <stuv> i tired the binary ones but my window manager doesn't show up then (mate) on debian 9.4 with a geforece gtx 1050ti
• 1030[07:16:14] <judd> Package: nvidia-kernel-dkms on amd64 -- wheezy/non-free: 304.131-1; wheezy-backports/non-free: 340.102-1~bpo70+1; jessie/non-free: 340.102-1; stretch/non-free: 375.82-1~deb9u1; stretch-backports/non-free: 384.111-3~bpo9+1; jessie-backports/non-free: 384.111-4~deb9u1~bpo8+1; stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 384.111-4~deb9u1; buster/non-free: 390.42-1; sid/non-free: 390.42-1
• 1031[07:16:17] *** Quits: Haxxa (~Harrison@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 1032[07:16:21] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: it getting more dumb, because there is no serious community locally......
• 1033[07:16:31] <irinix> rabbitear_sdf, true, but shouldn't we all be in the mindset of "Gotta protect my neighbor at all costs"?
• 1034[07:16:47] *** Quits: maroloccio (~marolocci@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 1035[07:16:48] <annadane> stuv, try it with aptitude, it has more detailed dependency information
• 1036[07:16:50] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: there isn't a reason ... to be cool
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• 1038[07:17:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1530
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• 1040[07:17:03] <stuv> does the output of judd describes me i should get it from backports of wheezy ??
• 1041[07:17:08] <annadane> no.
• 1042[07:17:10] *** Quits: foul_owl (~foul_owl@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 1043[07:17:10] *** Joins: tec__ (~aegis@replaced-ip)
• 1044[07:17:21] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: no, do protect your neighbor
• 1045[07:17:22] <annadane> i was just checking to see that you're on stable
• 1046[07:17:42] <stuv> k
• 1047[07:17:43] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: but look at what is going on around your neighbors too
• 1048[07:18:09] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: is it getting messed up in your prospective? that is a sign
• 1049[07:18:30] *** Joins: Haxxa (~Harrison@replaced-ip)
• 1050[07:18:38] <stuv> annadane: can you might help ?
• 1051[07:18:53] <annadane> as i said, see what aptitude install nvidia-driver says
• 1052[07:18:54] <irinix> rabbitear_sdf, very true.
• 1053[07:18:59] <irinix> This is how I feel. replaced-url
• 1054[07:19:05] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: like its a sign to say, "look" I wanna live here, "the hell happened here?"
• 1055[07:19:20] <stuv> i followed all steps to isntall the binray driver but my window manager was gone and i had no tool to change display settings...
• 1056[07:19:20] <annadane> guys, can you take it to #debian-offtopic please? someone has a question
• 1057[07:19:32] <stuv> or at least i was not able to found them
• 1058[07:20:40] <annadane> the general procedure for figuring out installation issues is
• 1059[07:20:42] <annadane> !bat
• 1060[07:20:42] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
• 1061[07:21:03] <annadane> that can give some good info, or go dependency hunting with aptitude, narrow it down as to what doesn't install
• 1062[07:21:22] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: government is OBVIOUSLY, on the higher levels, super retarded and dumb, there for ... reason to think about, "WTF"
• 1063[07:21:30] <annadane> if a can't install because of b, b because of c, c because of d, and then it becomes circular, you've found the root of the problem
• 1064[07:21:56] <rabbitear_sdf> irinix: its like the "WTF" I need to get out, its "WTF" why does this happen over and over again.
• 1065[07:22:08] <annadane> but aptitude will generally tell you specifically what happens in great detail
• 1066[07:22:19] <annadane> rabbitear_sdf, as i said, somebody has a question, please go to #debian-offtopic
• 1067[07:22:44] <rabbitear_sdf> okay
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• 1070[07:23:05] <stuv> annadane: so you suggest using aptitude ?
• 1071[07:23:11] <rabbitear_sdf> annadane: one day that will be a social question as well though.
• 1072[07:23:24] <rabbitear_sdf> annadane: I will.
• 1073[07:23:28] <annadane> i suggest using aptitude to see what's causing issues so you can investigate, not to necessarily accept aptitude's proposed solutions
• 1074[07:23:44] *** Joins: rexan (~rexan@replaced-ip)
• 1075[07:23:46] <annadane> you can post it to paste.debian.net and we can take a look at it
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• 1077[07:24:16] <stuv> i've pasted it already: replaced-url
• 1078[07:24:30] <alkisg> stuv, the output of aptitude, not of apt-get
• 1079[07:24:32] <stuv> or what else should i paste (if you mean me)
• 1080[07:24:33] <alkisg> It's a lot more detailed
• 1081[07:24:42] <stuv> aptitde -xy ?
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• 1084[07:24:46] <annadane> no
• 1085[07:24:53] <annadane> just "aptitude install nvidia-driver", don't press y yet
• 1086[07:25:10] <irinix> annnnnd the non-free install did not work.
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• 1089[07:26:16] <annadane> also if you wouldn't mind putting to paste.debian.net the output of "apt-cache policy"
• 1090[07:26:17] *** Quits: luchus (~luchus@replaced-ip) (Quit: luchus)
• 1091[07:28:07] <stuv> annadane: ^ replaced-url
• 1092[07:28:54] <stuv> replaced-url
• 1093[07:30:12] <annadane> i have literally never heard of nvidia-alternative--kmod-alias
• 1094[07:30:38] <stuv> the binary drivers also didn't worked :(
• 1095[07:30:48] <annadane> stuv, what do you mean by binary drivers
• 1096[07:30:56] <annadane> ,v nvidia-alternative--kmod-alias
• 1097[07:30:57] <judd> No package named 'nvidia-alternative--kmod-alias' was found in amd64.
• 1098[07:32:05] <stuv> i tred like stop nouveau to load, then install linux-header- build-essentilas and the 32lib stuff but when i boot into x i get no MATE tables on top or bottom, just the icons, i tried a apt-get install --reinstall mate, but changes nothing
• 1099[07:32:20] <stuv> the ones provides by nvidia
• 1100[07:32:52] <annadane> from the repository, right? you didn't try installing anything from nvidia's website?
• 1101[07:32:53] <stuv> i did this with my old nvidia card and it worked like a charm
• 1102[07:33:00] <irinix> I just used the non-free firmware installer and it still did not detect the firmware....wtf over?
• 1103[07:33:25] <stuv> i tried that a few installations later
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• 1105[07:33:37] <annadane> well, don't do that, it's a good way to break your system
• 1106[07:34:03] <stuv> why can't i just install nvidia-driver :(
• 1107[07:36:12] <annadane> "invalid locale" is also weird
• 1108[07:36:27] <stuv> brb
• 1109[07:36:29] <annadane> any ideas, guys? this is kind of above my knowledge area
• 1110[07:36:33] <alkisg> stuv: try to temporarily disable backports, run apt-get update, then install nvidia, then reenable backports if you want
• 1111[07:36:43] <stuv> have to do a reboot
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• 1113[07:37:02] <annadane> sigh
• 1114[07:37:20] <annadane> i wouldn't be so quick to reboot if i'm already having graphical problems, but whatever...
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• 1116[07:37:59] <Emil> Hey
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• 1118[07:38:11] <irinix> I really really love debian and it's derivitives, I really hate debian's resistance to non-free stuff.
• 1119[07:38:12] <Emil> I need to build the latest stable kernel
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• 1121[07:38:32] *** Joins: rocketmagnet (~chatzilla@replaced-ip)
• 1122[07:38:33] <Emil> And of course I'd like a sane userspace for it
• 1123[07:38:34] <rocketmagnet> back
• 1124[07:38:57] <annadane> rocketmagnet = stuv?
• 1125[07:39:08] <Emil> is there a guide to do that? Or can I just put debootstrap onto a partition?
• 1126[07:39:30] <rocketmagnet> yes
• 1127[07:39:47] <annadane> did you see what alkisg suggested? "try to temporarily disable backports, run apt-get update, then install nvidia, then reenable backports if you want"
• 1128[07:40:10] <rocketmagnet> i tied the solution of aptitude but it changed anything :(
• 1129[07:40:33] <rocketmagnet> i have no backports enabled
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• 1131[07:40:50] <annadane> again... the idea of aptitude is just to investigate possible dependency conflicts, not to accept the very first solution it offers
• 1132[07:40:57] <annadane> i should've made that more clear, that's my fault
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• 1135[07:41:29] <rocketmagnet> file /etc/apt/sources.list shows replaced-url
• 1136[07:41:37] *** Joins: adoua (~adoua@replaced-ip)
• 1137[07:41:43] <rocketmagnet> it's a fresh debian 9.4 install
• 1138[07:42:27] <annadane> (and you can cycle between proposed solutions in aptitude)
• 1139[07:43:05] <rocketmagnet> i try again
• 1140[07:43:59] <rocketmagnet> he only ask me if i'm comfortable to the purposed solutoin (Y/n)
• 1141[07:44:29] <rocketmagnet> i try it with lightdm beeing shutdown
• 1142[07:44:31] <rocketmagnet> brb
• 1143[07:44:36] <annadane> you're rushing things
• 1144[07:44:42] <annadane> why not slow down a minute
• 1145[07:45:15] <DK2> im using kickstart to install debian 9 on servers however after loading the installer i immediately get a kernelpanic
• 1146[07:45:17] <DK2> replaced-url
• 1147[07:45:19] <DK2> any ideas?
• 1148[07:45:24] <annadane> we don't know what specifically is causing it not to be able to be installed so aptitude is just a way of getting down the various branches because it gives detailed information
• 1149[07:45:31] <irinix> will the debian installer install firmware from a .deb?
• 1150[07:45:37] *** Quits: rocketmagnet (~chatzilla@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1151[07:46:19] <annadane> DK2, what is kickstart? did you try the conventional methods yet as described in the installation manual?
• 1152[07:47:17] <DK2> irinix: no
• 1153[07:48:09] <irinix> darnit, then where do I find the bc43legacy/ucode4 actual firmware for the installer?
• 1154[07:49:01] <DK2> annadane: automatic installation :| not yet i have to try the manual installation from iso tho
• 1155[07:49:24] <annadane> i'd honestly just try doing it using the tested methods
• 1156[07:49:38] <annadane> i've never heard of kickstart before now
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• 1159[07:50:14] <rocketmagnet> annadane: back with no results :(
• 1160[07:50:21] <annadane> rocketmagnet, please slow down
• 1161[07:50:27] <annadane> you're leaving before i have a chance to say anything
• 1162[07:50:30] <rocketmagnet> np
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• 1165[07:51:01] <alkisg> DK2: debianites are used to replaced-url
• 1166[07:51:05] <annadane> and if you keep rushing things you're liable to end up breaking it more
• 1167[07:51:24] <rocketmagnet> unserstood
• 1168[07:51:24] <DK2> alkisg: yes i just meant the debian aquivalent then
• 1169[07:51:29] <rocketmagnet> understood
• 1170[07:52:08] <rocketmagnet> are you here in 15-20 min. ? have to be away from the keyboard for a short time ?
• 1171[07:52:12] <nauticalnexus> Break? Debian? Ha what
• 1172[07:52:12] <rocketmagnet> annadane: ^
• 1173[07:52:34] <annadane> i'm here for as long as you need me, but i'm not the only person
• 1174[07:52:51] <annadane> the really cool thing about this room is anyone can pitch in with suggestions
• 1175[07:53:01] <annadane> anyway,
• 1176[07:53:07] <rocketmagnet> i need you but i have an important thing to do, it's hard to find people helping you sometimes
• 1177[07:53:20] <alkisg> DK2: so you see grub and then that? If so, press "e" on grub and type the linux command line here...
• 1178[07:53:22] <annadane> oh, in 15-20 minutes, i misread
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• 1180[07:53:55] <annadane> well, if i'm not then just restate your problem, repaste the thing you did with aptitude (though i suspect that's now changed as you went ahead and accepted aptitude's solutions)
• 1181[07:54:01] <rocketmagnet> so it's fine, i'm back as soon as i can
• 1182[07:54:35] <rocketmagnet> so i have to repaste it again, but aptitude doesn't solve anything
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• 1185[07:54:59] <rocketmagnet> the problem stays the same
• 1186[07:55:03] *** Joins: P1ersson_ (~P1ersson@replaced-ip)
• 1187[07:55:07] <rocketmagnet> brb
• 1188[07:55:29] <annadane> rocketmagnet, it's not meant to *solve* anything. the idea is to find the weak link of what isn't installing.
• 1189[07:55:35] <DK2> alkisg, no the installer starts then then boots immediatley into the given panic
• 1190[07:55:42] <annadane> there are two ways of going about this,
• 1191[07:55:44] <annadane> !bat
• 1192[07:55:44] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
• 1193[07:55:53] <annadane> or working out the dependencies with aptitude
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• 1196[07:57:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1536
• 1197[07:59:00] <annadane> rocketmagnet, ideally according to what most people do we'd follow !bat and that probably would suggest a solution immediately
• 1198[07:59:11] <annadane> we can try that, but aptitude can also be a source of good information
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• 1201[08:00:33] <annadane> rocketmagnet, and if you tried to randomly install things from nvidia's website - especially .deb's or whatever - that's probably broken something
• 1202[08:00:47] <annadane> we currently have no way of knowing how tangled the spaghetti mess is
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• 1210[08:07:19] <Li> what everyone is using for an text edting on debian? don't vi or gedit me please
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• 1212[08:07:50] <Li> why we can't see atom & sublime-text on debian's default ppa?
• 1213[08:07:57] <annadane> pretty much nano/pluma (mate's text editor thingy)
• 1214[08:08:07] <annadane> debian doesn't have PPAs
• 1215[08:08:40] <Li> annadane: nano is awsome for small text changes but not really a thing for developing
• 1216[08:08:53] <annadane> quite. that is what *i* use, because i am not a developer
• 1217[08:09:06] <Li> doesn't it? what do you call package repositories here?
• 1218[08:09:18] <annadane> just respitories
• 1219[08:09:20] <annadane> er
• 1220[08:09:24] <annadane> but with the correct spelling
• 1221[08:09:33] <Li> annadane: I'm sorry for then lol
• 1222[08:09:52] <annadane> anyway, atom and sublime may or may not make their way into the next stable, i have no idea
• 1223[08:09:55] <annadane> ,v atom
• 1224[08:09:56] <Li> you're missing too much functionalities on other ide(s)/editors
• 1225[08:09:56] <judd> No package named 'atom' was found in amd64.
• 1226[08:10:05] <annadane> !start an editor war
• 1227[08:10:05] <dpkg> pico blows.
• 1228[08:10:32] <Li> nope No wars needed you're free to choose to struggle
• 1229[08:10:42] <annadane> i mean, emacs is essentially king of functionality and it's in stable
• 1230[08:11:48] <Li> annadane: there is no question about emacs and vi but both have high learning curve
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• 1232[08:12:06] <Li> unlike things like brackets, bluefish, atom ..etc
• 1233[08:12:47] <annadane> you can still use editors which aren't currently in stable, replaced-url
• 1234[08:13:04] <annadane> anyway, i'll let people who actually do real text editing to answer
• 1235[08:13:34] <annadane> that wasn't grammatical, but whatever
• 1236[08:14:27] <annadane> all the DEs typically have their own, mate has pluma, kde has kate...
• 1237[08:14:49] <annadane> xfce has uh... whatever it has
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• 1241[08:16:22] <annadane> (i don't include mousepad because it's essentially notepad)
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• 1248[08:18:41] <annadane> incidentally replaced-url
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• 1256[08:22:44] <rocketmagnet> annadane: back now
• 1257[08:23:03] <annadane> scroll back and read what i said
• 1258[08:23:24] <rocketmagnet> ok
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• 1269[08:29:31] <rocketmagnet> annadane: replaced-url
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• 1276[08:31:04] <rocketmagnet> replaced-url
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• 1278[08:31:53] <annadane> yeah and i honestly have no idea how to solve for when you get errors like that about virtual packages
• 1279[08:32:16] <annadane> if you try apt install nvidia-kernel-support what error messages do you get?
• 1280[08:32:46] <annadane> and also, what's up with those 6 not upgraded packages, probably not relevant but i wonder what a regular apt upgrade would do
• 1281[08:32:56] <annadane> i _think_ that can be ignored for now
• 1282[08:33:01] <towo^work> aptitute install nvidia-install:?
• 1283[08:33:09] <towo^work> apt install nvidia-driver
• 1284[08:33:17] <jelly> or nvidia-kernel-dkms
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• 1286[08:33:39] <annadane> mhm, right, that's what aptitude showed earlier
• 1287[08:33:47] <annadane> i didn't follow that thread because i forgot about it
• 1288[08:35:30] <rocketmagnet> towo^work: both tells me the same - take a look at replaced-url
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• 1290[08:36:00] <rocketmagnet> it's a fresh install
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• 1292[08:37:29] <annadane> this is the sources.list from earlier, odd for a fresh install replaced-url
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• 1294[08:38:47] <jelly> !bat
• 1295[08:38:47] <dpkg> In order to troubleshoot your problem with apt-get, apt or aptitude we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
• 1296[08:38:54] <jelly> rocketmagnet: ^^
• 1297[08:39:09] <annadane> and, yes, !bat is generally a good solution. i should have gone straight to that but decided aptitude was a quick and easy shortcut
• 1298[08:39:35] <jelly> it's a way to get more complete useful info, not a solution at all
• 1299[08:39:41] <annadane> this is their apt-cache policy: replaced-url
• 1300[08:39:57] <annadane> right, more useful info was what i was after
• 1301[08:40:13] <rocketmagnet> jelly: i forgot a few thing, i create a new paste and be right back
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• 1309[08:42:21] <rocketmagnet> he can find the package "nvidia-kernel-375.82"
• 1310[08:42:45] <jelly> use dkms instead.
• 1311[08:42:56] <annadane> alternatives. right. i'm a moron.
• 1312[08:42:58] <annadane> sorry.
• 1313[08:43:11] <Li> is there a debian alternative for umake?
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• 1315[08:44:41] <rocketmagnet> dpkg: error: cannot access archive 'nvdia-kernel-375.82': No such file or directory
• 1316[08:44:41] <dpkg> You are person #1 to send an unparseable request, rocketmagnet
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• 1318[08:44:47] <rocketmagnet> jelly: ^
• 1319[08:45:04] *** Quits: jrz5 (~bz6@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 1320[08:46:02] <DK2> is the order of the files in initrd.gz important?
• 1321[08:46:20] <rocketmagnet> jelly: dpkg --install nvdia-kernel-375.82
• 1322[08:46:35] <annadane> you don't need to dpkg --install
• 1323[08:46:41] <annadane> again, please stop rushing things
• 1324[08:46:49] <jelly> rocketmagnet: what did you expect that would do?
• 1325[08:47:02] <annadane> guessing solutions doesn't get you anywhere
• 1326[08:47:03] <jelly> "dpkg" is a low-level tool
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• 1328[08:47:11] <rocketmagnet> i don't undestand how can i fetch apt-cache policy info on a package that is not found
• 1329[08:47:23] <rocketmagnet> nor how to do it with dpkg
• 1330[08:47:31] <rocketmagnet> that was my first thought
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• 1332[08:48:25] <jelly> "apt-cache policy nvidia-kernel-375.82 nvidia-kernel-support nvidia-alternative--kmod-alias nvidia-driver nvidia-kernel-dkms"
• 1333[08:48:46] <jelly> you don't do it with dpkg, it does not know anything about apt or repos or policies
• 1334[08:49:30] <rocketmagnet> replaced-url
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• 1336[08:49:41] <rocketmagnet> i understand
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• 1338[08:50:28] <jelly> that seems fine
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• 1352[08:57:21] <jelly> rocketmagnet: I can't seem to find the start of your adventure, could you provide all the info in one place?
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• 1356[08:58:37] <annadane> how far do your logs go back? i can probably post a log and weed out the relevant paste entries
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• 1358[08:58:51] <annadane> or i guess just the entries
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• 1360[09:00:37] <rocketmagnet> the start was just to try to install nvidia-driver :(
• 1361[09:00:40] <jelly> they go back to "can't be bothered to grep the log files"
• 1362[09:00:52] <rocketmagnet> replaced-url
• 1363[09:01:47] <annadane> replaced-url
• 1364[09:01:49] <jelly> I'm going to assume the command line there was typed manually after the fact and is not the actual command line
• 1365[09:01:53] <rocketmagnet> mabe this can also help: sources.list: replaced-url
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• 1367[09:02:04] <rocketmagnet> it was typed manualy
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• 1371[09:02:29] <jelly> ,v nvidia-alternative
• 1372[09:02:31] <judd> Package: nvidia-alternative on amd64 -- wheezy/non-free: 304.131-1; wheezy-backports/non-free: 340.102-1~bpo70+1; jessie/non-free: 340.102-1; stretch/non-free: 375.82-1~deb9u1; stretch-backports/non-free: 384.111-3~bpo9+1; jessie-backports/non-free: 384.111-4~deb9u1~bpo8+1; stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 384.111-4~deb9u1; buster/non-free: 390.42-1; sid/non-free: 390.42-1
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• 1376[09:02:41] <jelly> !nvidia dkms
• 1377[09:02:42] <annadane> but with they accepted the aptitude install nvidia-driver solution earlier and i'm not sure of what that changed
• 1378[09:02:42] <dpkg> For Debian 7 "Wheezy" and later systems. Ask me about <contrib> and <non-free sources>. «aptitude -r install linux-headers-`uname -r|sed 's,[^-]*-[^-]*-,,'` nvidia-kernel-dkms && mkdir -p /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d ; echo -e 'Section "Device"\n\tIdentifier "My GPU"\n\tDriver "nvidia"\nEndSection' > /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf». Restart your system to enable the <nouveau> blacklist.
• 1379[09:02:48] <jelly> rocketmagnet: do this instead ^
• 1380[09:02:51] <annadane> -with
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• 1382[09:03:18] <tp43_> anyone can help with modmap? I did $xmodmap -e "keycode 133 = Pointer_Button1" and it didn't work. How do I find out what the code is for the left mouse click, I just copy/pasted from a link on a message board
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• 1384[09:03:26] <jelly> everything between « and », one long command line
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• 1387[09:04:07] <rocketmagnet> The following packages have unmet dependencies: nvidia-kernel-support : Depends: nvidia-alternative--kmod-alias which is a virtual package and is not provided by any available package
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• 1391[09:04:39] <jelly> rocketmagnet: what do "apt-cache show nvidia-alternative" and "apt-cache policy nvidia-alternative" say
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• 1393[09:05:29] <jelly> ,provides nvidia-alternative
• 1394[09:05:30] <judd> Package nvidia-alternative in stretch/amd64 provides: nvidia-alternative--kmod-alias.
• 1395[09:05:41] <rocketmagnet> replaced-url
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• 1397[09:06:14] <jelly> rocketmagnet: okay, and does "apt-get install nvidia-alternative" work?
• 1398[09:06:33] <annadane> well, the aptitude solution would have changed nothing actually, so never mind
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• 1400[09:06:39] <rocketmagnet> is already installed
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• 1403[09:06:53] <annadane> (do not give tech support at 3 am :P)
• 1404[09:07:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1543
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• 1406[09:07:16] <jelly> rocketmagnet: I have no idea why apt/aptitude fails, then
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• 1408[09:08:14] <jelly> rocketmagnet: what does "dpkg -s nvidia-alternative" say
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• 1414[09:09:00] <rocketmagnet> replaced-url
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• 1416[09:09:39] <jelly> so the Provides is present
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• 1420[09:10:55] <rocketmagnet> seems stange ?
• 1421[09:11:30] <annadane> jelly, one of the things they did was attempt to install some things from nvidia's website, is that correct, rocketmagnet?
• 1422[09:11:42] <jelly> shouldn't matter
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• 1424[09:12:05] <jelly> (it would cause other kind of issues)
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• 1426[09:13:02] <rocketmagnet> i tired the binary's from nvidia.com but that with the last install, this is a fesh install
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• 1432[09:13:50] <rocketmagnet> when i've tried it with this install, how can i reverse the process ?
• 1433[09:14:06] <annadane> a fresh install with a weird sources list, at that
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• 1435[09:14:29] <jelly> reverse what?
• 1436[09:14:32] <darxmurf> there is also a nvidia-driver in the debian repo
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• 1438[09:14:40] <rocketmagnet> what' wrong with my sources.list ?
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• 1440[09:15:01] <darxmurf> paste it and we will see :-)
• 1441[09:15:08] <annadane> it's just odd and not what you typically see in a fresh install replaced-url
• 1442[09:15:18] <Haohmaru> hm, i just updated my debian9 to the current kernel version from synaptic, and after rebooting, i saw something like "SPECTRE" in text mode, just before lightdm
• 1443[09:15:48] *** Quits: jimmy_ (~jimmy@replaced-ip) (Quit: jimmy_)
• 1444[09:16:05] <jelly> the explicit [arch] are unusual but should not be breaking things
• 1445[09:16:35] *** Quits: thallada (~thallada@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 1446[09:16:38] <annadane> replaced-url
• 1447[09:16:38] <annadane> locale::facet::_S_create_c_locale name not valid"
• 1448[09:16:41] <jelly> Haohmaru: probably something from dmesg.
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• 1450[09:17:14] <Gekko> I'm following this replaced-url
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• 1452[09:17:44] <rocketmagnet> annadane: i've installed locale-all or so now it dissappeard
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• 1455[09:18:14] <Haohmaru> jelly, yeah: "[ 0.015023] Spectre V2 : LFENCE not serializing. Switching to generic retpoline"
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• 1465[09:22:12] <Haohmaru> jelly, that means it's vulnerable?
• 1466[09:22:32] <Haohmaru> i'm on some AMD cpu iirc
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• 1473[09:26:24] <annadane> if you really want i can post the entire log just so you see everything in context
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• 1477[09:27:19] <rocketmagnet> brb
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• 1480[09:27:50] <annadane> i think i'm going to bed soon, in any event
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• 1485[09:30:36] <tp43_> I want to re-map my windows keyboard to key to mouse, in xev I get keycode 133, in showkey I get 125!
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• 1494[09:32:47] <CuteMeOwnThroat> that's not a question… and you can come up with the reason for that as well as we can?
• 1495[09:34:10] <tp43_> maybe in X the codes are different
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• 1505[09:38:47] <zprd> yay my lxc containers have no network connection today
• 1506[09:38:57] <zprd> a nasty uupdate?
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• 1508[09:39:39] <zprd> host runs stretch
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• 1514[09:42:51] <tp43_> I want to remap the windows key on my keyboard to my mouse left button(because I am using a paint program and want to click fast and easy), anyone can help. I tried with modmap, created .xmodmaprc file, added in there keycode 125 = Pointer_Button1, and then created an .xsessionrc file, added to that xmodmap ~/.xmodmaprc, but it didn't work. I tried 133 too(because xev gives 133, while showkey gives 125, so I tried both), but it didn't work.
• 1515[09:43:23] <tp43_> oh I logged out and back into xfce4 each time to test.
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• 1520[09:44:50] <jelly> Haohmaru: check which, if any, mitigations are in place with: grep . /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/*
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• 1523[09:46:40] <tp43_> I created a .xsessionrc file, and added a command in it, how can I know for sure that that .xsessionrc file I created is being used?
• 1524[09:46:52] <Haohmaru> jelly, Meltdown: "not affected", spectre v1: "__user pointer sanitization", v2: "Full generic retpoline"
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• 1528[09:47:15] <jelly> Haohmaru: it doesn't say "vulnerable" anywhere?
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• 1530[09:47:33] <alkisg> tp43_: put `date >> /tmp/myxsession.$$` and see if it created that file :)
• 1531[09:47:37] <Haohmaru> mmm, nope, it just prints these three lines
• 1532[09:47:46] <tp43_> alkisg, thx
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• 1535[09:48:30] <jelly> Haohmaru: then your kernel has some sort of mitigation in place for all of those
• 1536[09:48:35] <jelly> unlike eg.
• 1537[09:48:45] <jelly> /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/spectre_v2:Vulnerable: Minimal generic ASM retpoline
• 1538[09:49:23] <tp43_> alkisg, why the $$ there?
• 1539[09:49:51] <alkisg> tp43_: that just marks the process id, so that it's a different file name each time; you can omit it if you don't like it
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• 1542[09:50:26] <tp43_> alkisg, how about it I do date >> ~/test.txt
• 1543[09:50:29] <Haohmaru> okay, i ask cuz i have debian9 at home (but there it's on an intel cpu) and i've not seen such things printed during boot
• 1544[09:50:38] <tp43_> alkisg, thx, interesting to know
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• 1546[09:50:40] <alkisg> tp43_: sure
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• 1552[09:53:16] <tp43_> alkisg, yep it worked, thx so much
• 1553[09:53:22] <alkisg> np
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• 1562[10:02:09] <CuteMeOwnThroat> tp4…
• 1563[10:02:35] <CuteMeOwnThroat> oh well… it's .Xmodmap where I did it, not .xmodmap
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• 1565[10:04:09] <zarez> hello, why systemctl restart networking.service doesn't work in debian9 ?
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• 1567[10:05:22] <CuteMeOwnThroat> what did you expect it to do?
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• 1569[10:06:05] <zarez> the same as /etc/init.d/networking restart before systemd
• 1570[10:06:29] <zarez> but now only reboot works
• 1571[10:06:50] <CuteMeOwnThroat> to do what
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• 1573[10:07:44] <zarez> activate my ethernet connection
• 1574[10:08:06] <zarez> now it's not even blinking
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• 1634[10:44:11] <Haohmaru> i installed a cross compiler, it comes with header files, where do i look for them? they don't seem to be in /usr/include
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• 1647[10:49:28] <colo-work> Haohmaru, why not ask the package manager where it put the pkg's files?
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• 1651[10:50:16] <Haohmaru> synaptic doesn't talk back to me ;P~
• 1652[10:50:20] <goldkatze> Hi :-)
• 1653[10:50:20] *** Joins: qba73 (~qba73@replaced-ip)
• 1654[10:50:42] <colo-work> Haohmaru, dpkg -L <package>
• 1655[10:51:15] <tp43_> how can I create a config file for xkb? Like for xmodmap I created ~/.xmodmaprc and it used it. How can I find this info for myself in the future? Like right now, is there one, and if so, what is the file name for xkbset?
• 1656[10:51:23] <Haohmaru> okay, found them
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• 1659[10:53:08] <tp43_> vi is giving me syntax highlight for .xmodmaprc but if do the same with .xkbsetrc I get none
• 1660[10:53:35] <tp43_> brb
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• 1672[10:58:02] <tp43_> I put in .xsessionrc xmodmap ~/.xmodmaprc and it worked, it ran that command, but when I put in xkbset m, it didn't work, anyone know what, what's the difference. I see the xkbset is using an option, or supplying an argument
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• 1683[11:04:19] <tp43_> oh well, I just added the command in xfce4 setting autostart
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• 1686[11:06:16] <alioui_> bash pipe problem :
• 1687[11:06:16] <alioui_> why cat file | xargs -n1 -I$ echo mv $ dest doesn't produce the rigth output ??
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• 1691[11:07:27] <alioui_> or xargs
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• 1699[11:10:26] <goldkatze> Does a maintainer get automatically notified that her watchfile found a new version?
• 1700[11:11:02] <goldkatze> Or does this just appear in qa and is somewhat passive information?
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• 1706[11:14:15] <alkisg> alioui_: $ is a symbols for variables in shell, you need to quote it or use a different replacement symbol
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• 1708[11:14:55] <alkisg> E.g. xargs -n1 -I@ echo mv @ dest
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• 1719[11:20:28] <n4dir> alioui_: sounds as if you might be looking for something like this: replaced-url
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• 1727[11:23:06] <NetTerminalGene> #deletefacebook
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• 1734[11:27:26] <alioui_> alkisg: doesn't work for me, even if i use -i option default {} symbole
• 1735[11:27:36] <alioui_> n4dir: no
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• 1738[11:28:14] <alioui_> NetTerminalGene: what is facebook
• 1739[11:28:39] <NetTerminalGene> your master
• 1740[11:28:45] <goldkatze> Probably typed the password to wrong window
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• 1746[11:31:28] <alioui_> NetTerminalGene: :|
• 1747[11:32:49] <n4dir> alioui_: why no? What do you want to do?
• 1748[11:34:45] <n4dir> to me it looks as if you had filenames stored in a file, read it with cat, pipe the output to xargs and do echo to see in advance if you would mv the right files.
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• 1752[11:36:42] <alioui_> exactly, but i don't think i need while loop or a shell scripting for that
• 1753[11:37:05] <alioui_> piping command will do the job
• 1754[11:38:05] <n4dir> #bash highly recommends against usage of xargs. There is a reason the FAQ 1 is there, but whatever you prefer.
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• 1760[11:39:13] <BCMM> n4dir: using xargs ever, or using xargs for this sort of situation?
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• 1762[11:39:26] <BCMM> (i'm wondering if i can stop feeling bad about never learning xargs)
• 1763[11:40:16] <n4dir> BCMM: truth to be told, all i understand is that they recommend against using it (both the bot and the wiki), but i don't fully understand why. Here is what the bot says:
• 1764[11:40:31] <n4dir> (11:21:06 AM) greybot: xargs(1) is dangerous (broken, exploitable, etc.) when reading non-NUL-delimited input. If you're working with filenames, use find's -exec [command] {} + instead. If you can get NUL-delimited output, use xargs -0. Otherwise, you probably want a while read or for loop instead.
• 1765[11:40:37] <n4dir> perhaps you can make some sense out of it.
• 1766[11:42:41] <n4dir> i already had a bad feeling when using "cat" to get data to process further (and greybot seems to confirm it)
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• 1773[11:49:36] <alkisg> alioui_: ls /bin | xargs -n1 -I@ echo mv @ dest
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• 1775[11:50:14] <alkisg> But best is: while read -r f; do mv "$f" dest; done </path/to/inputfile
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• 1778[11:52:01] <n4dir> alkisg: i guess the same is true for the command ls: replaced-url
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• 1781[11:53:04] <n4dir> the bot even puts it in uppercase. :-)
• 1782[11:53:06] <alkisg> n4dir: yes there are multitudes of waits that people break shell commands; see my second "correct" proposal
• 1783[11:53:42] <alkisg> (it depends on inputfile and also files not having newlines in their filenames)
• 1784[11:53:50] <n4dir> alkisg: i mainly did chat. i am not too serious about it.
• 1785[11:54:50] <n4dir> well: and it is hard to get rid of bad habits, once you are used to it.
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• 1795[11:58:50] <Thedarkb-X40> I'm looking to migrate back to Debian after a long stint with Ubuntu
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• 1798[11:59:30] <FinalX> Shouldn't be too difficult?
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• 1800[11:59:45] <Thedarkb-X40> Should I go for Sid or stable?
• 1801[11:59:55] <FinalX> We use both in our company, both managed through Puppet and they can be managed relatively the same.
• 1802[12:00:09] <FinalX> Depends on what you want to use it for, but I'd stick with stable releases.
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• 1806[12:00:58] <n4dir> imho this isn't bad to make the decision: replaced-url
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• 1808[12:01:26] <n4dir> mainly 3.1.5
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• 1810[12:02:18] <colo-work> hm. there's new systemd packages (libsystemd0 and friends) appearing in stretch, but no changelog entry yet
• 1811[12:02:31] <colo-work> anyone in the know what I'm currently installing? 8)
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• 1818[12:04:15] <Thedarkb-X40> I was thinking about installing stable and pulling packages from Sid as needed
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• 1822[12:05:41] <n4dir> think about it as much as you want, as long you don't do it. never, ever.
• 1823[12:06:04] <Thedarkb-X40> Oh, dep hell?
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• 1825[12:06:54] <n4dir> the bot has some info about it. I think /msg dpkg frankendebian and /msg dpkg don't break debian
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• 1829[12:07:27] <n4dir> if you use stable, then check if debian-backports have newer packages of the software you use.
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• 1833[12:08:08] <n4dir> if that is not the case, consider if testing or sid is worth the trouble , that is: if you really are in need of the newer version.
• 1834[12:08:18] <n4dir> ok?
• 1835[12:08:21] <Thedarkb-X40> Yeah
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• 1837[12:08:56] <n4dir> i would assume it is more sane to use Sid instead of mixing stable with sid (or testing). Sure more easy to troubleshoot.
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• 1886[12:32:32] <BCMM> running sid really isn't that bad... i don't see why anybody would mix stable and sid, to be honest
• 1887[12:32:52] <BCMM> still got all the downsides of stable, but you lose the upside of, like, stability
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• 1901[12:40:26] <Emil> Hmm
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• 1903[12:40:43] <Emil> so the filters package has a command lolcat, but the package lolcat has a command lolcat, also
• 1904[12:40:48] <Emil> how do I resolve this?
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• 1907[12:42:05] <Emil> Oh is t such that the filters lolcat is LOLCAT
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• 1954[13:19:31] <gamera> how would I diagnose why "settings" hangs in gnome
• 1955[13:19:37] <gamera> I can't open the settings panel
• 1956[13:20:02] <gamera> when I use cli to open it it just says it timed out
• 1957[13:20:19] <gamera> there's one thing at startup that fails but it scrolls past too quickly to see what it is
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• 1972[13:30:46] <gamera> I am unsure how to diagnose this
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• 1976[13:32:05] <gamera> also the touchscreen doesn't bring up the onscreen keyboard
• 1977[13:32:28] <gamera> so something is messed up but I don't know where to start
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• 2049[14:17:16] <rocketmagnet> hi all, i've a strange problem, i've installed the newest geforce driver from nvidia and all is working, i can login to X11 but the only thing i see are the icons, i get no pannels and such :(
• 2050[14:17:21] *** Quits: nutron|w (~nutron@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2051[14:17:45] <rocketmagnet> the driver is using dkms
• 2052[14:18:07] <rocketmagnet> i'm using lightdm (mate) with debian 9.4 (stable) fresh installation
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• 2055[14:18:59] <rocketmagnet> help needed :X
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• 2061[14:20:38] <rocketmagnet> installing it the debian way with nvidia-driver didn't worked because of some unresolved packages that are hold back :( so i tred the drivers from nvidia
• 2062[14:21:39] <darxmurf> it should works
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• 2064[14:22:09] <rocketmagnet> the geforce driver are working but in X11 i only see icons but no pannels at all :(
• 2065[14:23:00] <RoyK> rocketmagnet: which distro? any custom repos?
• 2066[14:23:35] <rocketmagnet> debian 9.4 stable fresh install
• 2067[14:23:51] *** Quits: galex-713_ (~galex-713@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2068[14:23:52] <rocketmagnet> with mate as window manager
• 2069[14:23:58] <RoyK> if you try it the debian way, what sort of errors do you get?
• 2070[14:24:57] <rocketmagnet> he holds some packages back because of some unresolved issue, i asked before about that but i got no answer that helped me, so i'm more interessted in getting mate back up and running normaly not showing the icons
• 2071[14:25:27] *** Quits: dadinn (~DADINN@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2072[14:25:33] <RoyK> dunno - sorry - but perhaps I could help the "old way"
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• 2074[14:26:50] <rocketmagnet> that means ?
• 2075[14:27:20] <RoyK> by installing packages from the official repos and looking at the dependency issues you had
• 2076[14:27:49] <rocketmagnet> isn't threre a way i can reinstall mate ?
• 2077[14:27:49] <Thedarkb-X40> I've given up on getting my ATi FireGL Mobility chipset to work under any Linux distro.
• 2078[14:28:19] *** Joins: GenteelBen (~GenteelBe@replaced-ip)
• 2079[14:28:23] <RoyK> Thedarkb-X40: is it that bad?
• 2080[14:28:38] <Thedarkb-X40> Yup
• 2081[14:28:40] <Thedarkb-X40> No drivers.
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• 2083[14:28:41] <Thedarkb-X40> At all.
• 2084[14:28:47] <RoyK> rocketmagnet: if it's a fresh install, better reinstall from scratch
• 2085[14:28:51] <RoyK> Thedarkb-X40: that sucks
• 2086[14:29:24] <Thedarkb-X40> The AMD site has a download link for Linux drivers, but they're actually Radeon drivers that just give me white snow all over a black screen.
• 2087[14:29:49] <Thedarkb-X40> The card does work fine under Windows but I don't want to run Windows.
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• 2089[14:29:53] <Thedarkb-X40> It's a T41p ThinkPad
• 2090[14:30:14] <RoyK> Thedarkb-X40: snow! I hate snow!
• 2091[14:30:18] <Thedarkb-X40> Software rendering on a 1.5ghz Pentium M isn't pleasant.
• 2092[14:30:25] <RoyK> hehe
• 2093[14:30:38] * RoyK throws a snowball in Thedarkb-X40's direction
• 2094[14:30:40] <Thedarkb-X40> Running the wrong microcode makes for some pretty visual effects!
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• 2097[14:31:10] <Thedarkb-X40> We got an arseload of snow this year.
• 2098[14:31:14] <Thedarkb-X40> For some reason.
• 2099[14:31:49] <RoyK> where?
• 2100[14:31:57] <Thedarkb-X40> Ireland.
• 2101[14:32:04] *** Quits: Andros (~Andros@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2102[14:32:05] <RoyK> oslo here
• 2103[14:32:05] <Thedarkb-X40> "Beast from the east" and all that.
• 2104[14:32:13] <jelly> rocketmagnet: perhaps you could wipe all the closed nvidia stuff, and see if that fixes the held back mate stuff
• 2105[14:32:16] <Thedarkb-X40> Ah, you probably get it every year.
• 2106[14:32:21] *** Quits: nutron|w (~nutron@replaced-ip) (Max SendQ exceeded)
• 2107[14:32:26] <RoyK> where in .ie?
• 2108[14:32:33] <Thedarkb-X40> Kilkenny.
• 2109[14:32:42] <RoyK> Thedarkb-X40: ok - I was there a few years back…
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• 2115[14:33:26] <RoyK> Thedarkb-X40: we normally get snow, yes, but not this amount of it, and spring is very late this year, and my leg hurts and I'm angry and so on :þ
• 2116[14:33:30] <jelly> rocketmagnet: aptitude purge '~i ?source-package(nvidia-graphics-drivers)' # to get rid of any non-free driver components
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• 2121[14:35:09] <DK2> replaced-url
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• 2123[14:35:44] <RoyK> DK2: it can't find the root device
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• 2126[14:36:45] <DK2> so?
• 2127[14:37:05] <Thedarkb-X40> Hope you feel better soon
• 2128[14:37:16] *** Joins: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip)
• 2129[14:37:17] <RoyK> Thedarkb-X40: that is - I was in Kilkenny in 2000 and three years back and last time, I met this bloke in a bar, asking me what I was doing in town, and I told him I was at a course with Dell, and he shrugged, Dell, they built up this town, and then broke it down
• 2130[14:37:26] *** Quits: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2131[14:37:58] <rocketmagnet> jelly: 0 packets actualised, nothing installed 0 got removed and 0 got actualized 0 b an archives must be downloaded
• 2132[14:38:25] <rocketmagnet> is there a way i can reinstall mate somehow ? i can run apps have the icons, only the top pannel is missing
• 2133[14:38:43] <RoyK> DK2: well, a linux system needs to find its root, obviously
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• 2135[14:39:07] <jelly> rocketmagnet: then there's nothing held back?
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• 2148[14:45:40] <Haohmaru> how (the hell) do i interpret this location: "/usr/lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/5.4.1/../../../arm-none-eabi/bin/ld" ?!
• 2149[14:45:48] <Haohmaru> specifically those ../../ things
• 2150[14:46:11] <Haohmaru> does this go thru some black hole or teleport?
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• 2154[14:48:10] <Haohmaru> do they mean "going back" or something, or are they directory names which have been shortened with ".." ?
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• 2161[14:48:43] <bites> ../ is the parent directory.
• 2162[14:48:53] <mkey> ".." means "parent directory", so yes, you're "going back"
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• 2165[14:49:23] <Haohmaru> so from inside the 5.4.1 folder, i go back 3 times?
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• 2167[14:50:32] <Haohmaru> i learned something new today x_x
• 2168[14:51:24] <mkey> Yes, /usr/lib/gcc/arm-none-eabi/5.4.1/../../../ is equivalent to /usr/lib/gcc/
• 2169[14:52:48] <mkey> :)
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• 2171[14:53:23] <mkey> FYI, .. is parent directory and . (single) is current directory. These are aliases
• 2172[14:53:52] <Haohmaru> i knew that, i just did not know that is a valid way to specify a full file path
• 2173[14:54:31] <Haohmaru> and i was thinking that maybe gcc is printing the full path with some of the folders shortened or something
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• 2175[14:56:29] <Haohmaru> uh, mkey i counted 3 times and reached /usr/lib/
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• 2177[14:57:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1592
• 2178[14:57:09] * Haohmaru hits his GPS a few times and stares at the coordinates
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• 2182[14:57:26] <rocketmagnet> hi again
• 2183[14:57:36] <rocketmagnet> i get this error message: locale: Cannot set LC_CTYPE to default locale: No such file or directory
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• 2186[14:58:01] <RoyK> rocketmagnet: which locale is that? usually "apt install locales-all" will fix it, though
• 2187[14:59:08] <rocketmagnet> i installed that package but nothing changed, i get apt-listchanges: Can't set locale; make sure $LC_* and $LANG are correct!
• 2188[14:59:21] <RoyK> which locale?
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• 2193[15:01:04] <mkey> Haohmaru: yes you're right. My mistake. You got it ;)
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• 2195[15:01:33] <rocketmagnet> replaced-url
• 2196[15:01:57] <rocketmagnet> RoyK: Jelli: ^
• 2197[15:03:14] <rocketmagnet> it seems like he's missing some packages
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• 2202[15:05:17] <RoyK> rocketmagnet: not sure, but why not de_AT.utf8?
• 2203[15:05:39] <RoyK> iso8859 has gone out of style
• 2204[15:06:40] <rocketmagnet> but what's the error of apt-listchanges is about ? there seems to be something important missing
• 2205[15:06:50] <rocketmagnet> it's a fresh stable debian install
• 2206[15:07:49] <RoyK> not sure, sorry
• 2207[15:07:58] <rocketmagnet> i think i'll try ubuntu... when the stable release makes me so much troubles i'll get ubuntu a chance
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• 2209[15:08:37] <antoine__> airnf /iTDhAt_'`i-r-WLkcYd~P34?
• 2210[15:08:39] <RoyK> rocketmagnet: you'll probably see the same thing there ;)
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• 2216[15:11:12] <rocketmagnet> i'll give it a try, everything i tried to get the geforce up and running (nvidia driver and the debian way) both don't work (and if it's working i have no gui tool to setup my graphics card settings
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• 2218[15:11:47] <mahafyi> Hi, i can add a self signed CA cert to chrome (deb pkg downloaded from dl.google.com). I would like to ask if anyone knows how to add it for all users in one go as I am able to do it with command 'certutil' (which is from pkg libnss3-tools) to $HOME/.pki/nssdb
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• 2220[15:12:25] <rocketmagnet> is there a debian developer channel ?
• 2221[15:12:39] <rtp2342> rocketmagnet: if i buy a machine that is supposed to run with linux, i avoid hardware which only runs with closed source drivers
• 2222[15:12:44] <rocketmagnet> they might be interessted about what's wrong here with a fresh install
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• 2226[15:13:24] <rocketmagnet> rtp2342: the new graphics drivers all work with opensource drivers also, only if you want bleeding edge drivers you can use those from nvidia
• 2227[15:14:01] <rtp2342> rocketmagnet: okay. still i'll stick to intel graphics in the cpu.
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• 2229[15:14:43] <antoine__> Alright, that was my password, sent by my password manager, after #debian opened automatically while it was autotyping...
• 2230[15:14:52] <rocketmagnet> i need real 3d accel
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• 2232[15:15:03] <BanHammor> rocketmagnet, you might wanna file a bug report instead of talking on a dev channel
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• 2234[15:15:22] <BanHammor> replaced-url
• 2235[15:15:51] <antoine__> I am trying to compile something that uses stdio.h, time.h and setjmp.h. I only get "no such file or directory". I have gcc installed. Am I supposed to install another package?
• 2236[15:16:08] <rtp2342> antoine__: apt-get install build-essential
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• 2239[15:16:47] <antoine__> Ok this is where I am screwed :(.
• 2240[15:16:47] <annadane> *if* it's a bug report...
• 2241[15:16:53] <annadane> and not some other underlying issue
• 2242[15:16:57] <annadane> s/bug report/bug
• 2243[15:17:13] <rtp2342> antoine__: why?
• 2244[15:17:14] <BanHammor> antoine__, presumably build-essential is installed, right?
• 2245[15:17:33] <antoine__> I wanted to install keepassxc. It wasn't in stable so I thought it would be a good idea to get it from unstable. I activated that repo, installed keepassxc then went back.
• 2246[15:17:46] <antoine__> Now I know why is wasn't a good idea :(.
• 2247[15:17:52] <BanHammor> ...oh no you should NOT do that, ever
• 2248[15:17:53] *** Quits: Ticho (~Ticho@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 2249[15:18:07] <antoine__> Is it not too hard to downgrade?
• 2250[15:18:07] <annadane> keepassxc relies on a newer gcc AFAIK, so yeah...
• 2251[15:18:18] <antoine__> Could I compile with that newer gcc?
• 2252[15:18:21] *** Quits: rjsalts (~rjsalts@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2253[15:18:41] <annadane> i forget, what is the command
• 2254[15:18:45] <rtp2342> and to add a bonus problem, the password manager pasted your password here
• 2255[15:18:50] *** Joins: rajpratik71 (~semicode@replaced-ip)
• 2256[15:18:51] <annadane> keepassxc --depends -release sid
• 2257[15:18:53] <annadane> or whatever
• 2258[15:19:36] <antoine__> annadane: Am I supposed to type this somewhere?
• 2259[15:19:56] <annadane> no, it's a thing you give to the irc bot and it tells you what dependencies it would have pulled in
• 2260[15:20:03] <annadane> which is in your /var/log/apt/history.log, anyway
• 2261[15:20:21] <annadane> paste it to paste.debian.net (only the relevant entry), you may have to reinstall
• 2262[15:20:21] *** Joins: tpanarch1st (~tpanarch1@replaced-ip)
• 2263[15:20:23] <antoine__> That was a few weeks ago.
• 2264[15:20:37] <annadane> less /var/log/apt/history.log | grep keepassxc
• 2265[15:21:09] *** Joins: tpanarch1st_ (~tpanarch1@replaced-ip)
• 2266[15:21:50] <annadane> because i know someone else had this issue, i think
• 2267[15:22:02] <annadane> and it pulled in newer gcc and from there it's very much not trivial to downgrade
• 2268[15:22:12] <annadane> and basically everything breaks
• 2269[15:22:15] <antoine__> annadane: replaced-url
• 2270[15:22:53] <antoine__> Can I list all packages that I downloaded from sid or buster?
• 2271[15:23:01] <annadane> well, that's them
• 2272[15:23:30] <antoine__> There might be another package for which I did it. I am not sure at the moment.
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• 2276[15:24:06] <annadane> so that actually doesn't look too terrible, i just wonder if the correct solution doesn't involve "remove it and all those files", probably, but i just wonder about mesa stuff
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• 2282[15:24:52] <annadane> i thought it would have pulled in a new gcc but apparently that bullet has been dodged
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• 2285[15:25:23] <tw> probably only builddep.
• 2286[15:25:33] <antoine__> annadane: Sorry for the non-english stuff. This is what build-essential says it that matters replaced-url
• 2287[15:25:41] <antoine__> pardon my french hehe
• 2288[15:26:03] <antoine__> if that matters*
• 2289[15:26:19] <annadane> i can understand it but it's better for others if it's in english
• 2290[15:26:23] <annadane> !localized errors
• 2291[15:26:23] <dpkg> To provide command output in English instead of your native language, set your locale to an English one (e.g. C) prior to running the command, e.g. "LC_ALL=C apt-get -f install".
• 2292[15:26:44] <antoine__> Thanks for the tip
• 2293[15:26:51] *** Quits: dadinn (~DADINN@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2294[15:27:02] <annadane> anyway, i'll let other people smarter than i am help with this
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• 2296[15:27:29] <antoine__> english equivalent: replaced-url
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• 2300[15:28:20] <antoine__> Do you know how to list packages installed from a specific repo? I'd like to list all from sid and check whether there are any from buster.
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• 2302[15:29:09] <annadane> i'm not sure whether there's a way or not. anyway as i said, i'd probably remove keepassxc and all the stuff it installed, but don't take that as advice just yet, maybe someone has a better idea
• 2303[15:30:02] <annadane> also btw keepass2 and keepassx are in debian stable, keepassxc is not the only version
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• 2305[15:30:25] <antoine__> Since keepassxc isn't in stable, I think I'll have to remove it and install it from somewhere else like direct download.
• 2306[15:30:41] <antoine__> I prefer keepassxc :(. But yeah it'd be easier to stick with one of those.
• 2307[15:30:44] *** Joins: eddynetweb (eddynetweb@replaced-ip)
• 2308[15:30:52] <annadane> well, depends what you mean by "install", don't go around installing .deb's from the internet
• 2309[15:31:03] <annadane> replaced-url
• 2310[15:31:04] <antoine__> They provide a .deb on their website
• 2311[15:31:15] <annadane> yeah, avoid installing .deb's from the internet
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• 2313[15:31:49] <antoine__> yep :).
• 2314[15:31:56] <annadane> the entire replaced-url
• 2315[15:32:38] <antoine__> I read it after my mistake :s.
• 2316[15:32:43] <antoine__> I'll be safe now :).
• 2317[15:33:07] <tw> Can't start X, can you?
• 2318[15:33:09] <antoine__> Ok I'll just remove keepassxc and dependancies.
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• 2320[15:33:48] <antoine__> autoremove won't remove all the dependencies... I might have to do it manually :-(
• 2321[15:33:51] <tw> you can check each package one at a time with apt-cache policy packagename to see which version it matches.
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• 2326[15:34:15] <bites> apt doesn't track where packages have been installed from, but if your system is updated thise comes close: aptitude search "~S~i~Atesting"
• 2327[15:34:41] <bites> but some packages might be found in aptitude search ~o
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• 2330[15:35:27] <tw> Realistically, to get a functional system you need to downgrade those upgrades and hope libgcrypt20 didn't break anything like gpg.
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• 2334[15:35:59] <antoine__> bites: aptitude search "~S~i~Atesting" doesn't return anything.
• 2335[15:36:28] <antoine__> tw: Do I downgrade by just removing and installing again?
• 2336[15:36:31] <bites> replace testing with unstable if you want packages from sid
• 2337[15:36:55] <bites> only works if you still have the repository in your sources.
• 2338[15:37:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1599
• 2339[15:37:51] <antoine__> Ok, I don't.
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• 2341[15:38:12] <tw> antoine__: I think you can apt-get -t=stretch install packagename
• 2342[15:38:14] <annadane> you can still add the repository temporarily just to aptitude search and remove it before installing anything else
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• 2344[15:38:21] <antoine__> bites: Do I activate it again, then just `aptitude search "~S~i~Aunstable"` or do I need `apt update` before?
• 2345[15:38:28] *** Quits: rajpratik71 (~semicode@replaced-ip) (Quit: rajpratik71)
• 2346[15:38:38] <bites> you need to apt update before.
• 2347[15:38:43] <antoine__> ok
• 2348[15:38:46] <annadane> as long as you don't actually install/update any packages then your sources.list is harmless
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• 2350[15:39:12] <antoine__> tw: What does this do?
• 2351[15:39:36] <tw> installs the latest package from the stretch repository.
• 2352[15:39:36] <alkisg> antoine__: are you trying to downgrade a lot of packages to their stock versions?
• 2353[15:39:41] <antoine__> tw: Because it tells me: already the newest version.
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• 2356[15:40:11] <antoine__> alkisg: Exactly, with "a lot" begin around 10 I believe.
• 2357[15:40:23] <Iridos> hm, I've used duplicity to do encrypted backups to a remote drive… I think I'll want to switch to something else… It's using up 8GB for its index even on the local system… for something like 150G of data… and it's slow
• 2358[15:40:35] *** Joins: Evol (~no@replaced-ip)
• 2359[15:41:01] <alkisg> antoine__: there's a method for that, you can set Pin-Priority: 1001 for origin *, and then just apt dist-upgrade, which will prefer the versions from your sources over the versions you have installed
• 2360[15:41:14] <alkisg> It assumes you removed the problematic sources before doing so
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• 2364[15:42:08] <annadane> Iridos, i wonder if that's something rsync can't do already, encrypted backups
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• 2367[15:42:41] <Iridos> admittedly, it's 8GB for 4 increments or so… still…
• 2368[15:42:50] <antoine__> bites: Well, does this make sense? `aptitude search "~S~i~Atesting" | wc` says 399. Do I really have that many?
• 2369[15:43:06] <antoine__> unsable being 390...
• 2370[15:43:17] <Iridos> trying to restore a file since… uh, more than yesterday… the slowness makes errors time costly
• 2371[15:43:19] <antoine__> alkisg: You might have just savec me! I'll try this :).
• 2372[15:43:23] <alkisg> antoine__: anyway, in case you need it, try google translate on this: replaced-url
• 2373[15:43:50] <alkisg> Someone here mention Priority: 1001 before, and I tried it, and it worked fine both on Debian and Ubuntu with the same instructions
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• 2376[15:44:04] <alkisg> So I made that tiny how-to
• 2377[15:44:13] <annadane> russian?
• 2378[15:44:13] <antoine__> Did you write this?
• 2379[15:44:20] <alkisg> Yeah, it's Greek
• 2380[15:44:21] <antoine__> greek it seems :).
• 2381[15:44:24] <annadane> oh. right.
• 2382[15:44:30] <Iridos> annadane, I thought… maybe something like rsnapshot onto an encrypted drive-in-a-file via sshfs or so… but … madness this way lies
• 2383[15:44:31] <tw> Iridos: might try restic. I'd say obnam, but that's no longer under development.
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• 2385[15:44:41] <antoine__> Ok I just translated it, will let you know if gtranslate doesn't make snese :).
• 2386[15:44:48] <alkisg> Sure, ping me if so
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• 2389[15:45:00] <Iridos> tw, will have a look, thanks
• 2390[15:45:13] <annadane> alternatively, replaced-url
• 2391[15:45:29] <antoine__> yep, sadly not yet :(
• 2392[15:45:37] <Iridos> "Likewise, restoring data should not be complicated." … yeah… guess I will try that
• 2393[15:46:03] <alkisg> antoine__: so the steps are, remove bad sources, put 3 lines in preferences.d/50priorities, apt update, apt dist-upgade, then remove the 50priorities file
• 2394[15:46:10] <bites> antoine__: some are probably the same version in unstable and testing, that's why they are listed in both searches. are you on testing? because that's a lot of packages from there if you are on stable.
• 2395[15:46:31] *** Joins: rajpratik71 (~semicode@replaced-ip)
• 2396[15:46:33] <antoine__> bites: I am on stable.
• 2397[15:46:37] <antoine__> or supposed to be.
• 2398[15:46:46] <antoine__> alkisg: Thanks a lot :).
• 2399[15:46:50] <alkisg> np
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• 2402[15:47:18] <bites> antoine__: and you have almost 400 packages from testing/unstable that's probably not that good.
• 2403[15:47:20] <Iridos> tw, yeah, looks similar to duplicity but trying to address the things driving me mad about it… will try that after easter, thanks
• 2404[15:47:31] <tw> It's pretty fast.
• 2405[15:47:38] <annadane> antoine__, if you post to paste.debian.net "cat /etc/apt/sources.list"?
• 2406[15:47:48] <tw> obnam is pretty fast too as long as you stay under like 2-3 TB of data.
• 2407[15:47:55] <tw> But again, deprecated by developer =|
• 2408[15:48:09] <annadane> or i don't remember whether you have a graphical interface, you can also use termbin
• 2409[15:48:10] <annadane> !termbin
• 2410[15:48:10] <dpkg> well, termbin is you can paste to termbin.com from terminal via: cat /path/to/file | nc termbin.com 9999
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• 2412[15:48:32] <annadane> cat /etc/apt/sources.list | nc termbin.com 9999
• 2413[15:48:54] *** Joins: watsonjar2 (~watsonjar@replaced-ip)
• 2414[15:48:56] <alkisg> apt-cache policy | nc termbin.com 9999 => includes sources.list.d
• 2415[15:48:58] <antoine__> bites: Yep I'm surprised actually. alkisg's solution would "update" about 100.
• 2416[15:49:26] <alkisg> Maybe you enabled testing in the past and ran an apt upgrade
• 2417[15:49:30] <JyZyXEL> tw: there was also Attic and bup
• 2418[15:49:36] <antoine__> annadane: replaced-url
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• 2421[15:50:19] <annadane> yeah and the testing and unstable repos are from trying to add keepassxc
• 2422[15:50:23] <Iridos> tw, my disk here is kind of tiny… so an 8GB local index is quite an annoyance in itself
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• 2426[15:51:14] <bites> antoine__: don't forget to remove the sources again and run apt update before you install anything.
• 2427[15:51:29] <antoine__> bites: What do you mean remove the soruces again?
• 2428[15:51:31] <antoine__> sources*
• 2429[15:51:45] <bites> antoine__: for sid and buster.
• 2430[15:52:11] <bites> antoine__: you added them to run the aptitude search.
• 2431[15:52:15] <antoine__> bites: Right, I did it I believe :).
• 2432[15:52:20] *** Quits: watsonjar3 (~watsonjar@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 2433[15:52:26] <antoine__> Thanks!
• 2434[15:52:35] *** Quits: MoonkYan_ (~moonkyang@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
• 2435[15:52:42] <annadane> oh, or that. pay attention, anna.
• 2436[15:53:30] <tw> Iridos: I dunno how much it will help. If you're running several million small files like my dev box, the history metadata is going to get big on you. Granted, 8GB is excessive.
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• 2445[15:56:11] <Iridos> tw, duplicity says it has about a million files…
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• 2453[16:00:37] <antoine__> alkisg: I followed your method, installed build-essential without any problem, installed keepassxc from a .deb from their website. It all works good now and my program compiles :).
• 2454[16:00:56] <antoine__> bites: tw: annadane: alkisg: Thank you all very much :).
• 2455[16:01:07] <dzove855> 19
• 2456[16:01:09] *** Joins: sh00p (~z@replaced-ip)
• 2457[16:01:25] <annadane> i said _not_ to do that...
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• 2462[16:04:19] <alkisg> antoine__: np :)
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• 2467[16:06:55] <antoine__> annadane: Are you referring to me installing a .deb?
• 2468[16:07:11] <annadane> yes
• 2469[16:07:42] <antoine__> Is it because it won't be tracked by apt or because I can't trust as much the place where I got it from?
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• 2472[16:09:22] <annadane> trust is probably fine (with the small caveat that the debian package repositories have cryptographically verified packages so you don't get a malicious download), it's that it doesn't get tracked by apt and can cause future system problems
• 2473[16:10:27] <antoine__> When it comes to stable, will it get tracked by apt or will I need to remove it and install in again fro apt?
• 2474[16:10:30] <antoine__> from*
• 2475[16:10:33] <annadane> you likely don't need to worry about malicious downloads anyway unless there's a specific active adversary
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• 2477[16:10:40] <bites> it's probably fine.
• 2478[16:10:58] <annadane> alrighty.
• 2479[16:11:08] <annadane> still, avoid doing that in future
• 2480[16:11:28] *** Quits: rajpratik71 (~semicode@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2481[16:11:36] <antoine__> Sure, I'll remember it :). Thanks for your tips!
• 2482[16:11:55] <antoine__> But still, will I need to do something once it comes to stable?
• 2483[16:12:11] <bites> if the package has the same name and you upgrade to buster later, apt will update it without a problem.
• 2484[16:12:43] *** Quits: bestucan (~weechat@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
• 2485[16:12:44] *** Quits: yeticry (~yeticry@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
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• 2488[16:13:23] *** Joins: yeticry (~yeticry@replaced-ip)
• 2489[16:13:26] <greycat> Ideally.
• 2490[16:13:43] <greycat> As we learned from dmm, ideal != real.
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• 2493[16:14:32] *** Quits: Serpent7776 (~Serpent77@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 2494[16:14:43] <antoine__> bites: Oh, buster being the next stable. Ok, perfect :).
• 2495[16:14:49] <antoine__> greycat: What is dmm? :)
• 2496[16:14:58] *** Joins: gnumdk (~gnumdk@replaced-ip)
• 2497[16:15:10] <greycat> !dmm
• 2498[16:15:10] <dpkg> We recommend against using deb-multimedia.org; these unofficial packages are known to cause many hard to debug problems. They are not in Debian either because the they are poor in quality or for legal reasons. See replaced-url
• 2499[16:15:27] *** Quits: tpanarch1st (~tpanarch1@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2500[16:15:33] <antoine__> Thanks!
• 2501[16:16:07] <antoine__> Oh and I've been wondering, when is firefox quantum coming to stable? I can't seem to understand to release cycle.
• 2502[16:16:21] <antoine__> the release cycle*
• 2503[16:16:27] *** Quits: matchaw_ (~matchaw@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 2504[16:16:36] <greycat> If a quantum release becomes Firefox ESR, then it will probably appear in stretech.
• 2505[16:16:47] *** Quits: Eljotto (~Eljotto@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2506[16:16:49] <crimson_king> I think Firefox 60 will be ESR
• 2507[16:16:54] <crimson_king> Last i read
• 2508[16:17:26] <greycat> current Firefox ESR is 52.7.3
• 2509[16:17:27] <bites> not sure, i think there are some build deps missing on stretch so those would have to be backported too.
• 2510[16:17:29] <annadane> i believe it's 59
• 2511[16:17:37] <antoine__> So, shortly after Mozilla releases the next ESR version of Firefox?
• 2512[16:17:55] <annadane> quantum is coming to stable in about 3-4 months
• 2513[16:18:01] <annadane> as firefox esr
• 2514[16:18:24] <greycat> Sounds reasonable. ~6 months to make it actually stable.
• 2515[16:18:33] <annadane> of course, it's entirely possible to use it now
• 2516[16:18:37] *** Quits: oo_miguel (~miguel@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
• 2517[16:18:38] <annadane> wiki.debian.org/Firefox
• 2518[16:19:01] <rtp2342> annadane: i wonder which of my add-ons will run in quantum then
• 2519[16:19:15] <annadane> probably none of them because mozilla eats children
• 2520[16:19:24] <rtp2342> annadane: :)
• 2521[16:19:34] *** Quits: ian___ (~ian@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 2522[16:19:36] <antoine__> Looks like it'll be ESR 59 replaced-url
• 2523[16:19:38] *** Quits: stoimenow (~Asus@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 2524[16:20:02] <antoine__> annadane: Does Mozilla have a bad reputation?
• 2525[16:20:07] <annadane> ESR 52 will also reach EOL in a few months so whenever that is, with a bit of overlap
• 2526[16:20:08] *** Joins: noodlepie (~me@replaced-ip)
• 2527[16:20:15] <greycat> antoine__: in some cases, yes.
• 2528[16:20:27] <annadane> antoine__, i'm mostly joking. but one problem is that quantum uses a different framework and so has broken people's extensions
• 2529[16:20:35] *** Quits: chachasmooth (~chachasmo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2530[16:21:00] *** Quits: de-facto (~de-facto@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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• 2532[16:21:00] *** Quits: beaver (~none@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2533[16:21:11] <antoine__> Oh it was a joke :).
• 2534[16:21:23] *** Joins: de-facto (~de-facto@replaced-ip)
• 2535[16:21:24] <antoine__> They've been around for a long time, making free software so I like them :).
• 2536[16:21:31] <greycat> It's mostly not a joke. They keep breaking backward compat and ruining everything.
• 2537[16:21:37] <crimson_king> you can install the latest Firefox as a Snap. Are snaps working on Debian?
• 2538[16:21:49] *** Joins: beaver (~none@replaced-ip)
• 2539[16:21:50] *** Joins: dionysus69 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 2540[16:21:52] <annadane> some people object to "spying" but i'm not sure how true it is
• 2541[16:21:53] *** Quits: f4cl3y (~f4cl3y@replaced-ip) (Quit: Reconnecting)
• 2542[16:22:02] <annadane> there are some complaints
• 2543[16:22:09] *** Joins: f4cl3y (~f4cl3y@replaced-ip)
• 2544[16:22:15] <jelly> annadane: it remains to be seen how ESR59 is going to land in stable, seeing as there's no compiler in stable able to build the rust bits
• 2545[16:22:24] <jelly> AFAIUI
• 2546[16:22:34] <annadane> yeah, there's no firm plan yet afaik
• 2547[16:22:39] <annadane> but that's the general plan
• 2548[16:23:33] *** Joins: tpanarch1st (~tpanarch1@replaced-ip)
• 2549[16:24:07] *** Quits: Haxxa (~Harrison@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2550[16:24:39] <crimson_king> replaced-url
• 2551[16:24:46] <bites> maybe they will patch it to compile on an older rustc :>
• 2552[16:24:57] <jelly> there's NO rustc in stretch at all
• 2553[16:25:15] *** Quits: rtp2342 (~rtp2342@replaced-ip) (Quit: quitten fuer die menschen zwischen emden und zittau)
• 2554[16:25:22] <bites> there was no in jessie
• 2555[16:25:29] <jelly> oh, there actually is something.
• 2556[16:25:38] <jelly> ,v rustc
• 2557[16:25:39] <judd> Package: rustc on amd64 -- stretch: 1.14.0+dfsg1-3; buster: 1.24.1+dfsg1-1; sid: 1.24.1+dfsg1-1
• 2558[16:25:52] <annadane> well, they'll figure something out, i guess
• 2559[16:25:56] <bites> but it's not good enough.
• 2560[16:25:59] *** Quits: zyley (~zyley@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2561[16:26:06] <jelly> clearly backporting the compiler AND the one app is the right way
• 2562[16:26:08] * jelly hides
• 2563[16:26:14] *** Quits: sibyakin (~sibyakin@replaced-ip) ()
• 2564[16:26:17] *** Quits: rajpratik71 (~semicode@replaced-ip) (Quit: rajpratik71)
• 2565[16:26:21] <annadane> i mean you joke, but...
• 2566[16:26:24] *** Joins: Haxxa (~Harrison@replaced-ip)
• 2567[16:26:40] <jelly> ,checkbackport rustc
• 2568[16:26:41] <judd> Backporting package rustc in sid→stretch/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: cargo:native (>= 0.19.0) <!pkg.rustc.dlstage0>, rustc:native (>= 1.23.0+dfsg) <!pkg.rustc.dlstage0>, llvm-4.0-dev:native (>= 1:4.0.1-8), llvm-4.0-tools:native (>= 1:4.0.1-8), libllvm4.0 (>= 1:4.0.1-8).
• 2569[16:26:49] * annadane sadface.
• 2570[16:27:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1596
• 2571[16:27:04] *** Joins: chachasmooth (~chachasmo@replaced-ip)
• 2572[16:27:04] <annadane> "ok so just backport *those* packages!"
• 2573[16:27:05] <antoine__> How come when I type `sudo apt install firefox` says something like "No such version of firefox available, but it is in the database."?
• 2574[16:27:05] <jelly> and llvm and whatever cargo is!
• 2575[16:27:28] <annadane> because firefox itself isn't in the repository, it's only available as firefox-esr
• 2576[16:27:47] *** Joins: linuxconformer (2ea68edd@replaced-ip)
• 2577[16:27:50] <annadane> also i assume it's reading out the commented out testing/sid lines (i may be wrong)
• 2578[16:27:54] <linuxconformer> are firewalls on by default in stretch?
• 2579[16:27:56] *** Joins: rajpratik71 (~semicode@replaced-ip)
• 2580[16:28:04] <antoine__> How come it is in the database then
• 2581[16:28:07] <jelly> linuxconformer: there's no firewall by default
• 2582[16:28:09] <greycat> linuxconformer: no
• 2583[16:28:11] *** Quits: qtfy (~qtfy@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 2584[16:28:15] <linuxconformer> hmm ok strange
• 2585[16:28:34] *** Quits: adoua (~adoua@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 2586[16:28:48] <jelly> ,provides firefox-esr
• 2587[16:28:49] <annadane> because i _think_ it's reading from the sources.list the testing/sid lines you commented out but i'm not sure
• 2588[16:28:49] <judd> Package firefox-esr in stretch/amd64 provides: gnome-replaced-url
• 2589[16:29:14] <jelly> huh. I expected it would provide firefox and that's where apt would know about it.
• 2590[16:29:40] *** Joins: Serpent7776 (~Serpent77@replaced-ip)
• 2591[16:29:44] <linuxconformer> i'm trying to access port 6000 on my debian vagrant image, it works fine inside the image, but from host i gives me "This site can’t be reached
• 2592[16:29:44] <linuxconformer> "
• 2593[16:29:46] <greycat> "apt-cache showpkg firefox" shows a whole lot of Reverse Depends
• 2594[16:29:52] <linuxconformer> any ideas what could be the issue/
• 2595[16:29:54] <linuxconformer> ?
• 2596[16:30:16] <linuxconformer> i've set "forwarded_port", still not dice
• 2597[16:30:21] *** Quits: hele (~hele@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2598[16:30:27] <greycat> e.g. xsane has "Recommends: cups-client, firefox | replaced-url
• 2599[16:30:36] <annadane> oh is that how it works
• 2600[16:30:59] <annadane> anyway, tl;dr: browsers are a mess
• 2601[16:34:05] *** Quits: magnulu (~magnulu@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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• 2603[16:34:33] *** Joins: RedSoxFan07 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 2604[16:34:40] <antoine__> Thanks a lot for all the help. I can go back to work now.
• 2605[16:34:44] <antoine__> Have a good day :).
• 2606[16:34:45] *** Quits: tymczenko (~tymczenko@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2607[16:34:55] <antoine__> whatever is left of it!
• 2608[16:34:55] *** Quits: MichaelOF (~michael@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 2609[16:35:13] <bites> .o/~
• 2610[16:35:14] *** Quits: meatpath (~meatpath@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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• 2612[16:35:16] *** Joins: tymczenko (~tymczenko@replaced-ip)
• 2613[16:35:23] <linuxconformer> anyone know?
• 2614[16:35:24] *** Quits: antoine__ (~antoine@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
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• 2617[16:36:33] *** Joins: Ekchuan (~RandyMars@replaced-ip)
• 2618[16:36:35] <bites> linuxconformer: how does your forwarding rule look? => paste.debian.net. is your server only listening to localhost and you try to access it using your guest's ip?
• 2619[16:37:53] *** Quits: Christian75 (~Christian@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 2620[16:37:53] *** Joins: ttyp123 (~ttyp123@replaced-ip)
• 2621[16:38:00] <linuxconformer> bites: this is my forwarding rule: replaced-url
• 2622[16:38:05] *** Quits: dadinn (~DADINN@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2623[16:38:08] *** Quits: ttyp1 (~ttyp123@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2624[16:39:05] <bites> so on the host you try to access 8080, right?
• 2625[16:39:13] *** Quits: rajpratik71 (~semicode@replaced-ip) (Quit: rajpratik71)
• 2626[16:39:14] <linuxconformer> yeah
• 2627[16:39:20] <bites> and that's port 5000 you have there not 6000
• 2628[16:39:37] <linuxconformer> bites: sorry, i meant 5000 originally
• 2629[16:39:51] *** Quits: clemens3 (~clemens@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2630[16:40:02] <linuxconformer> i can access it fine within the vm (from localhost:5000), just not outside
• 2631[16:40:19] *** Joins: qobi (~qobi@replaced-ip)
• 2632[16:40:40] <greycat> Is the process listening only to localhost, or to *?
• 2633[16:40:40] <linuxconformer> could it be that it somehow only let's port 80 be accessed (on the guest i mean)
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• 2638[16:41:10] <linuxconformer> greycat: can you elaborate/
• 2639[16:41:19] *** Joins: dadinn (~DADINN@replaced-ip)
• 2640[16:41:24] <greycat> ss or netstat or lsof; what address is the process listening to?
• 2641[16:41:55] <jelly> what is vagrant anyway
• 2642[16:41:56] *** Joins: Informant (~Informant@replaced-ip)
• 2643[16:42:00] *** Quits: dpl (~dpl@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2644[16:42:11] <annadane> <--
• 2645[16:42:18] <bites> virtual machines for dev environments.
• 2646[16:42:28] *** Joins: Slashman (~Slash@replaced-ip)
• 2647[16:43:04] <jelly> so separate VMs, which means there has to be a network component to connect them
• 2648[16:43:19] <linuxconformer> one vm (debian), and then my host (laptop)
• 2649[16:43:27] *** Quits: BanHammor (~srsly@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 2650[16:43:29] <linuxconformer> greycat: which process
• 2651[16:43:30] <greycat> ss -ln | grep :5000 # for example
• 2652[16:43:43] <greycat> Whatever process you are trying to talk to on port 5000.
• 2653[16:43:46] *** Quits: Evol (~no@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 2654[16:43:54] <linuxconformer> greycat: tcp LISTEN 0 128 127.0.0.1:5000 *:*
• 2655[16:44:02] <greycat> It's listening on 127.0.0.1 only.
• 2656[16:44:17] <linuxconformer> oh, how can i tell that?
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• 2659[16:44:26] <greycat> because it says 127.0.0.1:5000 instead of *:5000
• 2660[16:44:45] <linuxconformer> greycat: but shouldn't vagrant take care of that?
• 2661[16:44:46] *** Quits: czart__ (~czart@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 2662[16:44:53] <greycat> I don't know what vagrant is, and I don't know what this process is.
• 2663[16:45:09] *** Quits: bvdk (~bvdkfreen@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 2664[16:45:15] <greycat> You can either tell the process to bind to all interfaces instead of loopback only, or you can use an ssh tunnel.
• 2665[16:45:19] <alkisg> Maybe it's trying to be secure, forwarding only on the host and not on the local network
• 2666[16:45:38] <alkisg> There should be a setting to change that
• 2667[16:45:39] <jelly> maybe this is a question for a vagrant channel
• 2668[16:46:05] *** r0Oter is now known as r00ter
• 2669[16:46:20] <jelly> there's precious little debian inside a VM can do to fix network between host and VM
• 2670[16:46:22] * alkisg quickly tested vagrant and thought it wasn't too production ready, docker was much more mature...
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• 2673[16:47:10] <linuxconformer> really appreciate the help guys, thank you!
• 2674[16:47:12] *** Parts: linuxconformer (2ea68edd@replaced-ip) ()
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• 2676[16:48:18] *** Joins: ychaouche (~ychaouche@replaced-ip)
• 2677[16:48:23] <ychaouche> Hello #debian
• 2678[16:48:37] <ychaouche> I was wondering if php5query was debian specific ?
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• 2683[16:50:01] <ychaouche> and if anybody knew what was sapi_name supposed to be ?
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• 2693[16:57:19] <xecuter> hi
• 2694[16:57:27] <xecuter> is here "Armbian" too?
• 2695[16:57:39] <greycat> !armbian
• 2696[16:57:39] <dpkg> i guess armbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for several <ARM> processors. Armbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian.
• 2697[16:57:52] *** Quits: rexan (~rexan@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 2698[16:57:56] <xecuter> hmm ok
• 2699[16:57:57] *** Quits: tpanarch1st (~tpanarch1@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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• 2704[16:59:47] <xecuter> hey, greycat , are you knowing asus tinkerboard?
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• 2710[17:00:43] <xecuter> is tinker = expansive lame stuff?
• 2711[17:01:35] <annadane> i guess the armbian factoid should list where one can go for support
• 2712[17:01:51] *** Quits: guerby (~guerby@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2713[17:01:57] <greycat> If you know of such a place, go ahead and add it....
• 2714[17:02:06] <annadane> yeah, looking it up
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• 2724[17:05:16] <xecuter> kk ty
• 2725[17:05:23] <annadane> dpkg, no, armbian is <reply> i guess armbian is a distribution <based on Debian> made specifically for several <ARM> processors. Armbian is not Debian and it is not supported in #debian. Use replaced-url
• 2726[17:05:24] <dpkg> okay, annadane
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• 2742[17:11:54] <Zgrokl> hi git-cola from stretch make me a core dump
• 2743[17:11:58] <Zgrokl> what can I do
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• 2745[17:12:25] <jelly> what does it do? Maybe there are alternatives
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• 2749[17:13:46] <jelly> ,v git-cola
• 2750[17:13:47] <judd> Package: git-cola on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.4.3.5-1; jessie: 2.0.6-1; stretch: 2.10-1; buster: 3.0-1; sid: 3.0-1
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• 2753[17:14:07] <petn-randall> Zgrokl: Can you show us the command + output when you run it in the terminal? And also the output of 'apt-cache policy', and 'apt-cache policy git-cola'.
• 2754[17:14:28] <Zgrokl> i want but there is no log petn-randall
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• 2756[17:14:29] <Zgrokl> git-cola -v
• 2757[17:14:29] <Zgrokl> Erreur de segmentation
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• 2759[17:15:20] <Zgrokl> policy say : 2.10-1 500
• 2760[17:15:20] <Zgrokl> 500 replaced-url
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• 2765[17:15:41] <annadane> don't paste "apt-cache policy" here; use paste.debian.net
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• 2767[17:15:46] <Zgrokl> sorry
• 2768[17:15:53] <petn-randall> Sorry, should have said that.
• 2769[17:15:59] <annadane> that one is fine, just not "apt-cache policy" by itself
• 2770[17:16:08] <annadane> as it involves massive amounts of spam and will get you kicked by the bot
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• 2778[17:17:07] <petn-randall> Zgrokl: Does it work from a newly created user?
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• 2781[17:17:23] <petn-randall> You might have local pip packges from python that break it.
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• 2784[17:18:54] <Zgrokl> petn-randall, jelly replaced-url
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• 2790[17:19:46] <Zgrokl> petn-randall, yes i already tried it, pip2 and pip3 say : Cannot uninstall requirement git-cola, not installed
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• 2793[17:21:06] <Zgrokl> from a new user : Segmentation fault
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• 2797[17:22:28] <petn-randall> Zgrokl: Runs fine here, so we need to find out whats different on your system.
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• 2799[17:22:41] <petn-randall> Zgrokl: does it segfault everywhere, or just in the git repo dir?
• 2800[17:22:47] <nkuttler> Zgrokl: anything in /usr/local ?
• 2801[17:23:07] <nkuttler> /usr/local/lib/python* in particular
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• 2803[17:23:56] <jelly> strace -f -eopen git-cola |grep suspicious stuff like /usr/local ?
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• 2807[17:26:32] <jelly> (pseudocode, strace outputs to stderr)
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• 2855[17:50:07] <KaibutsuX> I was told debian uses bit by bit deterministic builds for its sources. Does anyone know how that process works?
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• 2857[17:50:36] <greycat> Sounds like you're actually asking about "reproducible builds", something I don't really understand.
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• 2859[17:51:23] <petn-randall> KaibutsuX: replaced-url
• 2860[17:51:35] <antoine__> Hey, I am the guy who downgraded Debian a few hours ago. My computer won't boot. It says it misses the file
• 2861[17:51:40] <antoine__> libEGL.so.1
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• 2864[17:52:02] <antoine__> I believe I downgraded some mesa related package. Could it be because of that?
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• 2866[17:52:14] <petn-randall> !downgrade
• 2867[17:52:14] <dpkg> Downgrading is not, nor will ever be supported by apt. Programs change their data in a way that can't be rolled back, and package maintainer scripts support upgrades to new config file formats but not downgrades. Try: "dpkg -i olderversion.deb" or "aptitude install package=version" using "apt-cache policy package" to get the old version number. See also <partial downgrade>, <unstable->testing>, <sdo>.
• 2868[17:52:17] <greycat> I doubt that's needed to boot, except possibly by a Display Manager.
• 2869[17:52:24] <Tenkawa> hmmm
• 2870[17:52:28] <petn-randall> antoine__: Who recommended you downgrade?
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• 2873[17:52:34] <greycat> In any case, it's in libegl1-mesa on my computer.
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• 2875[17:52:44] <greycat> libegl1-mesa:amd64: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libEGL.so.1.0.0
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• 2878[17:53:15] <antoine__> petn-randall: It was my fault, I installed stuff from buster.
• 2879[17:53:23] <antoine__> And needed to go back.
• 2880[17:53:29] <annadane> i did *not* say downgrade the packages
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• 2882[17:53:45] <annadane> i said you *might* be able to remove packages that were installed as a results of keepass
• 2883[17:53:49] <antoine__> annadane: I did *not* say it was you.
• 2884[17:54:12] <Iridos> I did *not* say anything on the matter
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• 2886[17:54:58] <jelly> I *like* asterisks
• 2887[17:55:37] <annadane> that's probably a bit too snappy. sorry.
• 2888[17:55:45] <annadane> my fault.
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• 2891[17:55:54] <antoine__> greycat: Could I reinstall this one then? I have a command line access to my computer but not sure how to set up internet (wired) from there.
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• 2894[17:56:07] <greycat> You can try.
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• 2896[17:56:17] <Zgrokl> jelly, what i need to do with your command ?
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• 2908[18:00:06] <antoine__> I systemctl start systemd-networkd.service after I wrote an /etc/systemd/50-wired.network
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• 2911[18:00:13] <antoine__> No luck internet doesn't work
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• 2914[18:00:27] <antoine__> Would you help me out getting internet? :(
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• 2917[18:00:48] <antoine__> ip addr show does show an IP address though
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• 2925[18:06:15] <antoine__> greycat: Would you have a link maybe so I could get internet? :s
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• 2930[18:07:43] <petn-randall> antoine__: Your best bet is to do a clean reinstall.
• 2931[18:08:13] <petn-randall> antoine__: Starting to debug which packages still need downgrading, and then reverting any changes the postinstall scripts make will take days to fix.
• 2932[18:08:39] <antoine__> petn-randall: I guess thaths what I will do :(.
• 2933[18:09:22] <antoine__> Don't have a USB key with me anyways... Thanks again for the help
• 2934[18:09:25] <antoine__> Bbye
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• 2944[18:14:02] <Zgrokl> petn-randall, do you know if there is a way for me to use git-cola ?
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• 2955[18:18:30] <petn-randall> Zgrokl: Can you paste the complete output of `strace -f -eopen git-cola` to replaced-url
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• 2961[18:19:16] <Zgrokl> oh i don't have intel-microcode installed
• 2962[18:19:20] <Zgrokl> maybe that's why
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• 2964[18:19:52] <petn-randall> I highly doubt it.
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• 2967[18:21:11] <Zgrokl> petn-randall, replaced-url
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• 2986[18:29:13] <petn-randall> Zgrokl: The last 3 lines show your problem. You're loading a shared library from /usr/local/lib/python3.5/dist-packages/sip.so.
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• 2988[18:29:21] <phd> hi all
• 2989[18:30:49] <Zgrokl> petn-randall, thanks for that, do you know if there is a things to know which package is this file ?
• 2990[18:31:17] <petn-randall> Zgrokl: It's not from any official Debian package, likely from installing python packages as root.
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• 2992[18:31:47] <petn-randall> Zgrokl: if `dlocate /usr/local/lib/python3.5/dist-packages/sip.so` returns nothing, it's not even from a 3rd party package, but installed by hand.
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• 2996[18:32:41] <Zgrokl> too late i rm it
• 2997[18:32:54] <Zgrokl> but thanks for all that obscure command i didn't know about
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• 3000[18:33:20] <petn-randall> Zgrokl: You can still run it, even if you deleted the file. :)
• 3001[18:33:33] <Zgrokl> ye git-cola works know
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• 3003[18:33:52] <Zgrokl> was a lib for pyqt i deployed long time ago
• 3004[18:34:00] <Zgrokl> thanks a lot
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• 3007[18:34:20] <petn-randall> Zgrokl: You're welcome!
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• 3016[18:37:54] <johnfg> I got this at the end of the dist-upgrade, going from jessie->stretch: replaced-url
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• 3018[18:38:12] <johnfg> Anything I should do about these errors before I boot into stretch?
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• 3021[18:38:49] <annadane> very yes
• 3022[18:38:52] <annadane> what, i don't know
• 3023[18:39:02] <Tenkawa> just a sec
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• 3025[18:39:09] <Tenkawa> let me look
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• 3027[18:39:36] <annadane> if you scroll up you ought to see what specifically gave errors when processing them
• 3028[18:39:42] <annadane> not sure how far your scrollback goes, however
• 3029[18:40:06] <Tenkawa> yeah we need more than those 5 lines
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• 3032[18:40:20] <johnfg> annadane: I just looked at that and so will paste them too.
• 3033[18:40:38] <johnfg> Tenkawa: as above.
• 3034[18:40:55] <greycat> (which is why the release notes suggest doing upgrades in a 'script' session, so it's all logged to a file)
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• 3036[18:41:51] <johnfg> Here it is with the same last 5 lines: replaced-url
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• 3040[18:42:53] <Tenkawa> did you run apt-get update first?
• 3041[18:42:55] <juanmapalad> how is debain different from fedora?
• 3042[18:43:01] *** Joins: Darcidride (~Darcidrid@replaced-ip)
• 3043[18:43:03] <johnfg> Tenkawa: Yes.
• 3044[18:43:07] <Tenkawa> then apt-get upgrade?
• 3045[18:43:25] <greycat> !why debian
• 3046[18:43:25] <dpkg> Debian strives to maintain your freedom whilst also paying close attention to the technical aspects of making a great OS. Debian is stable, upgradable and well tested. See also replaced-url
• 3047[18:43:25] <johnfg> Tenkawa: No, apt-get dist-upgrade.
• 3048[18:43:43] <Tenkawa> you need to resolve upgrade before dist-upgrade
• 3049[18:43:45] *** Quits: rajpratik71 (~semicode@replaced-ip) (Quit: rajpratik71)
• 3050[18:43:45] <annadane> so, fedora as i understand is essentially the beta for red hat, debian is its own entity entirely. fedora is also i believe rolling, whereas debian (stable) is much more conservative about updates
• 3051[18:43:47] *** Joins: gryffus_ (~gryffus@replaced-ip)
• 3052[18:43:56] <Tenkawa> possibly even dselect-upgrade
• 3053[18:44:00] <annadane> there is testing and unstable of course, but stable is the "default option"
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• 3056[18:44:31] <johnfg> So, which to do next? upgrade or dselect-upgrade?
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• 3058[18:45:00] <Tenkawa> what were you doing to get to this point?
• 3059[18:45:11] <Tenkawa> (I'm still playing catchup
• 3060[18:45:12] <Tenkawa> )
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• 3064[18:46:20] <johnfg> Tenkawa: After backing up the various directories and files recommended by the release notes, I changed, in sources.list, jessie to stretch, then ran apt-get update, then apt-get dist-upgrade. Then came those errors.
• 3065[18:46:32] <Tenkawa> ahhhhh
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• 3067[18:46:44] <annadane> it's a wonderful day
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• 3071[18:46:53] <Tenkawa> run this first
• 3072[18:46:59] <Tenkawa> apt-get --dry-run upgrade
• 3073[18:47:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1588
• 3074[18:47:08] <Tenkawa> does that report any errors?
• 3075[18:47:20] <Tenkawa> if not run it again without dry-run
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• 3080[18:48:08] <johnfg> Tenkawa: Yes, there are errors: replaced-url
• 3081[18:48:34] <greycat> The stretch release notes say that you're supposed to do "apt-get upgrade" first, then "apt-get dist-upgrade".
• 3082[18:49:02] <greycat> replaced-url
• 3083[18:49:07] <johnfg> greycat: I missed that :-( What I get for perusing/skimming vs. *reading*
• 3084[18:49:19] <Tenkawa> same greycat thats what I was just having him test
• 3085[18:49:25] <johnfg> Should I do the apt-get -f install?
• 3086[18:49:33] <Tenkawa> i think he's got a half-upgraded
• 3087[18:49:47] <Tenkawa> er s/same//
• 3088[18:50:28] *** Joins: tpanarch1st (~tpanarch1@replaced-ip)
• 3089[18:51:23] <Tenkawa> I think the apt-get -f install in single user could get it fixed but it might still be touchy
• 3090[18:51:32] <johnfg> What's the next step you'd suggest?
• 3091[18:51:54] <Tenkawa> johnfg: anything crucial on here?
• 3092[18:52:23] <greycat> apt-get -f install sounds like a reasonable thing to try next
• 3093[18:52:28] <Tenkawa> indeed
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• 3095[18:52:57] <johnfg> Tenkawa: Yes, this machine is a web server, kerberos sever/host, openafs-server, etc.
• 3096[18:53:01] <juanmapalad> any video tutorial for debian you recommend? im a starter btw
• 3097[18:53:15] <annadane> no video tutorials, but i'll hook you up with some links, give me a moment
• 3098[18:53:20] <Tenkawa> johnfg: ouch
• 3099[18:53:31] <greycat> If you're the kind who needs video tutorials to learn, Debian may not be the right fit for you.
• 3100[18:53:42] <annadane> replaced-url
• 3101[18:54:40] <annadane> replaced-url
• 3102[18:55:04] <johnfg> Before this upgrade of jessie, I installed stretch in a vm with *no* problems or snags whatsoever, and it was fast and simple, imho.
• 3103[18:55:27] <annadane> if nothing else, read don't break debian, i guarantee you will avoid 95% of problems
• 3104[18:55:38] <hypn0> juanmapalad: itsan os, what do you need video tutrials for
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• 3107[18:56:10] <annadane> i could make a stock factoid for "i'm new to debian, can i have tutorials"
• 3108[18:56:19] <juanmapalad> iknow. i need something to study. just like cbt nuggets videos
• 3109[18:56:21] <johnfg> the apt-get -f install seems to be going well, no errors reported so far. What do you recommend next?
• 3110[18:57:02] *** Quits: mandeep (mandeep@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3111[18:57:30] <greycat> waiting for that to finish :)
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• 3115[18:58:08] <annadane> juanmapalad, and above *anything* else, don't rush things and guess solutions, if you're unsure if something ask the lovely people on irc
• 3116[18:58:16] <annadane> s/if/of
• 3117[18:58:31] <greycat> guessing can lead to some very intense learning
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• 3119[18:59:18] <juanmapalad> @annadane, thanks :)
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• 3129[19:02:04] <johnfg> I've run debian for a long time, and I think stretch has been the simplest and easiest yet to install from scratch.
• 3130[19:02:11] *** Joins: tpanarch1st (~tpanarch1@replaced-ip)
• 3131[19:02:35] <annadane> dpkg, newcomer is <reply> Welcome to Debian! Here's some resources to help you on your merry way: The Debian Handbook: replaced-url
• 3132[19:02:36] <dpkg> annadane: i already had it that way
• 3133[19:02:37] <johnfg> I don't consider what I'm doing now debian's fault, just me needing to learn to follow directions.
• 3134[19:02:59] <annadane> oh. you can apparently set factoids in #debian-bots
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• 3136[19:03:27] <johnfg> Ok greycat annadane that command completed with no errors!
• 3137[19:03:32] *** Joins: gryffus_ (~gryffus@replaced-ip)
• 3138[19:03:59] <greycat> I'd probably try Tenkawa's "apt-get --dry-run upgrade" next.
• 3139[19:04:20] *** Quits: juanmapalad (~junmapala@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3140[19:05:31] <Tenkawa> --dry-run is a very useful tool
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• 3147[19:07:06] <DoNotSleep> Hey, hey.
• 3148[19:08:02] *** Quits: killian99 (~killian99@replaced-ip) (Quit: Quitte)
• 3149[19:08:06] <DoNotSleep> Who do I have to bump to get nss upgraded in buster to 3.36?
• 3150[19:08:17] *** Quits: schu-r (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: schu-r)
• 3151[19:08:28] <DoNotSleep> "A new upstream version 3.36 is available, you should consider packaging it."
• 3152[19:08:39] <annadane> !why is nss not in testing
• 3153[19:08:40] <dpkg> nss is not in testing for the reasons listed in replaced-url
• 3154[19:08:49] <johnfg> Ran, the dry-run with no errors. Lots of screens of output.
• 3155[19:08:58] <Tenkawa> thats good
• 3156[19:09:10] <DoNotSleep> No excuse for nss!
• 3157[19:09:15] <Tenkawa> you should be good to run it without dry-run
• 3158[19:09:41] <annadane> well, 3.36 isn't even in sid yet... as debian typically follows upstream closely it should be there soon
• 3159[19:09:49] <annadane> and then testing has its own criteria
• 3160[19:09:53] *** Quits: Evol (~no@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 3161[19:10:00] <jelly> ,v libnss3
• 3162[19:10:02] <judd> Package: libnss3 on amd64 -- wheezy: 2:3.14.5-1+deb7u5; wheezy-security: 2:3.26-1+debu7u5; jessie: 2:3.26-1+debu8u3; jessie-security: 2:3.26-1+debu8u3; stretch: 2:3.26.2-1.1+deb9u1; stretch-security: 2:3.26.2-1.1+deb9u1; buster: 2:3.35-2; sid: 2:3.35-2
• 3163[19:10:21] *** Quits: Ekchuan (~RandyMars@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
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• 3166[19:10:35] <DoNotSleep> So it's anytime soon™?
• 3167[19:10:43] <johnfg> Of course I'll let this rather large upgrade complete, but, is the next step to run the dist-upgrade again?
• 3168[19:10:49] <jelly> DoNotSleep: so you want to help with packaging and maintaining nss?
• 3169[19:10:55] <Tenkawa> johnfg: yes
• 3170[19:11:02] <DoNotSleep> Uh, oh.
• 3171[19:11:06] <Tenkawa> after upgrade completes successfully
• 3172[19:11:10] *** Quits: lucad111 (~lucad111@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3173[19:11:19] <johnfg> Tenkawa: greycat: annadane: Thanks for your help thus far!
• 3174[19:11:27] <Tenkawa> no problem
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• 3178[19:12:18] <Tenkawa> one thing I do nowadays is run it once with the -d option to let it download everything locally first and not run it
• 3179[19:12:24] <DoNotSleep> The least thing I want to do is take somebody elses job away.
• 3180[19:12:32] <jelly> !debian-next
• 3181[19:12:32] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
• 3182[19:12:59] <DoNotSleep> Alright, thanks! I'll give it a bump.
• 3183[19:13:15] <jelly> maintainers are usually aware there's a newer version, since they added those checks themselves
• 3184[19:13:40] <jelly> a "bump" is usually just annoying and not helpful at all
• 3185[19:13:51] *** Quits: dadinn (~DADINN@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 3186[19:14:01] <Tenkawa> johnfg: The download only flag is great for keeping the packages locally before wanting to run the upgrade
• 3187[19:14:09] <Tenkawa> just in case oops
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• 3190[19:15:18] <jelly> DoNotSleep: but if you want to help, feel free to ask mozilla team what they need
• 3191[19:15:27] *** Quits: altin (~altin@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 3192[19:15:51] <jelly> DoNotSleep: they have a tiny channel on OFTC
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• 3195[19:17:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1582
• 3196[19:17:58] <DoNotSleep> How would Mozilla help with upgrading the package?
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• 3200[19:19:14] <greycat> Upstream is Mozilla. I think Jelly meant "The Debian team that deals with Mozilla's packages."
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• 3204[19:19:45] <greycat> Maintainer: Maintainers of Mozilla-related packages <pkg-mozilla-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org>
• 3205[19:19:53] <DoNotSleep> Alright, got it.
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• 3210[19:20:34] <greycat> I guess "momrp" isn't a very elegant name.
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• 3215[19:21:55] <annadane> i actually wonder how often people actually look at the faq, last updated 2016 apparently
• 3216[19:22:03] <annadane> not that you can really designate anyone to watch those things
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• 3218[19:22:29] <mbnt_> Hi, I have Debian stretch and have experienced, about once a day at least, my computer freezing up and requiring a hard reboot. I suspect it could be a graphics card issue.
• 3219[19:22:50] <annadane> what desktop environment/window manager are you on?
• 3220[19:22:57] *** Joins: him-cesjf (~cesjf@replaced-ip)
• 3221[19:23:03] *** Quits: DoNotSleep (~pingpong@replaced-ip) (Quit: Thanks for keeping up the good work!)
• 3222[19:23:26] <mbnt_> annadane, Wow, you are on Deian IRC in the wee hours and during the day shift too?
• 3223[19:23:43] <mbnt_> KDE
• 3224[19:24:03] <annadane> you're probably using nouveau, right? nouveau unfortunately sucks and i always had problems getting it to work with KDE
• 3225[19:24:06] <Tenkawa> johnfg: hows it going?
• 3226[19:24:17] <mbnt_> annadane, No, AMD
• 3227[19:24:22] <annadane> ah.
• 3228[19:24:24] <mbnt_> MESA
• 3229[19:24:38] <mbnt_> I want amd gpu pro, but AMD refuses to get that to work
• 3230[19:25:12] <annadane> and yes i am (very slightly) addicted to irc
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• 3233[19:25:31] <mbnt_> annadane is many, they take shifts under that handle
• 3234[19:26:05] <annadane> i guess the most obvious place to start is .xsession-errors
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• 3236[19:26:36] <mbnt_> for a lock-up/freeze-up han-solo style?
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• 3239[19:27:02] <annadane> for any sort of general error messages, i'm not sure what one would look for specifically
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• 3256[19:33:06] <annadane> a clue might be if it happens the same time every day
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• 3264[19:36:15] <sine0> does anyone know of a technique where I can blind boot a tower and ssh into it to setup debian. i was thinking a livecd with dhcp and ssh setup by default /
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• 3266[19:37:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1589
• 3267[19:37:50] <mbnt_> annadane, No, it varies. Sometimes opening a browser windows will do it, sometimes launching a Libre Office document.
• 3268[19:38:33] *** Quits: Posterdati (~kvirc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 3269[19:38:40] <annadane> checking other logs like /var/log/messages around the time it happens also helps
• 3270[19:39:21] <annadane> (or journalctl)
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• 3273[19:40:46] <mbnt_> annadane, Maybe my computer needs some more proprietary firmware, some microcode blob or something
• 3274[19:41:14] *** Joins: thunderrd (~thunderrd@replaced-ip)
• 3275[19:41:25] <annadane> possibly. you can try it.
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• 3279[19:42:17] <goldkatze> Does a maintainer get automatically notified that her watchfile found a new version?
• 3280[19:42:19] <mandeep> running glxinfo | grep OpenGL shows ES profile 3.1. is there an available way to upgrade to ES 3.3?
• 3281[19:42:27] <goldkatze> Or does this just appear in qa and is somewhat passive information?
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• 3284[19:43:18] <annadane> firmware-amd-graphics is the firmware package, apparently? i unfortunately don't know very much about it
• 3285[19:43:55] <alkisg> sine0: the easiest way is to put the disk elsewhere and install there. Another is netbooting, a final is a custom live cd
• 3286[19:43:55] <mbnt_> annadane, Yeah, I already have that. I probably need more.
• 3287[19:44:16] <greycat> mbnt_: if you need more, it would show you in dmesg | grep -i firmware
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• 3289[19:44:56] <annadane> yeah, i should have started with that
• 3290[19:45:42] <mbnt_> greycat, thanks
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• 3292[19:45:59] <mbnt_> greycat, lots of DRM DRM DRM, Stallman would turn over in his bed.
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• 3295[19:47:56] <mbnt_> Libre hardware cannot arrive soon enough.
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• 3300[19:50:30] <annadane> huh, weird. dmesg | grep firmware gives me [ 0.174802] ACPI: [Firmware Bug]: BIOS _OSI(Linux) query ignored
• 3301[19:50:40] <annadane> it's ACPI though, so i'll just ignore it
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• 3304[19:51:21] <annadane> or i guess i could go ahead and install intel-microcode though it doesn't say it's outdated
• 3305[19:51:46] <annadane> may as well
• 3306[19:51:49] <greycat> bios updates are separate things from intel-microcode
• 3307[19:52:16] <mbnt_> annadane, You need your cpu controlled by outside forces who know better than you, or I for that matter
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• 3311[19:54:21] <annadane> oh apparently query ignored is harmless
• 3312[19:54:26] <annadane> okay then
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• 3314[19:55:03] <mbnt_> Hooray for BB! BB! BB!
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• 3328[20:02:02] <mandeep> so it looks like even mesa 17.2 is using ES 3.1 for broadwell chips
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• 3351[20:11:04] <sine0> alkisg: I think a custom livecd is the way right, i could check to see if one supports dhcp already, then attempt some install from there/
• 3352[20:11:10] <johnfg> Hooray! the upgrade completed with no errors!
• 3353[20:11:15] *** Joins: Ekchuan (~RandyMars@replaced-ip)
• 3354[20:11:20] <johnfg> Now, should I run dist-upgrade again?
• 3355[20:11:29] <greycat> johnfg: yeah
• 3356[20:11:39] <johnfg> k
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• 3359[20:12:14] <sine0> alkisg: do you know if its easy to create a livecd ? could i create a netinstall vm and pull in the tools i need and create that into a cd or do i need to get knowledgeable with fstab
• 3360[20:13:15] <johnfg> replaced-url
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• 3363[20:15:44] <alkisg> sine0: can that hardware boot from a usb stick? Installing and configuring debian with ssh and everything in a usb stick or disk would be way easier than creating a live cd
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• 3366[20:16:21] <alkisg> sine0: and of course then you would be able to copy that installation to the local disk as well
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• 3370[20:17:39] <sine0> alkisg: i was thinking usb rather than disk, its old speak saying livecd, like saying tapes rather than cd/mp3
• 3371[20:17:57] <alkisg> sine0: then just install debian to a usb stick and configure vnc/ssh/whatever
• 3372[20:18:04] <alkisg> And boot with that
• 3373[20:18:07] <sine0> i think i did something similar with gentoo before and there was a changing root directory funbags invoolved
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• 3384[20:23:09] <johnfg> greycat: Did you see my last? Anything I should do about that?
• 3385[20:23:57] <OtakuSenpai> my laptop fan isnt working
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• 3387[20:24:01] <OtakuSenpai> what should i do
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• 3396[20:26:06] <OtakuSenpai> help
• 3397[20:26:32] <hop> security.d.o has libapache2-mod-php5 in version ...u13, but there has been no DSA and packages.d.o also only knows about u12. where can i find info on this _now_?
• 3398[20:26:36] *** Quits: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3399[20:26:51] <RoyK> dpkg: tell OtakuSenpai about ask
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• 3402[20:27:17] <OtakuSenpai> RoyK: my laptop's fan isnt working
• 3403[20:27:44] <RoyK> OtakuSenpai: not sure how that's related to debian
• 3404[20:27:49] <OtakuSenpai> RoyK: pls
• 3405[20:27:59] <OtakuSenpai> i wont be able to use my laptop if this continues
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• 3408[20:28:23] <hop> i don't want to sound impatient! i meant, what is the canonical way to get to the change log in such a case?
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• 3419[20:34:51] <bites> hop: the site probably need some time to register. on wheezy try apt-get changelog
• 3420[20:34:56] <jelly> OtakuSenpai, if it works after a power cycle but stops in OS, it might be a software issue worth investigating here. If it doesn't work before an OS boots, it's likely a hardware issue and you need to clean it up, possibly do repairs.
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• 3422[20:35:17] <OtakuSenpai> jelly: idk
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• 3424[20:35:28] <OtakuSenpai> i would like to check the software side first
• 3425[20:36:16] <hop> bites: that gives me a 404
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• 3427[20:36:38] <jelly> OtakuSenpai, that doesn't make sense. First thing you should do is power off the thing, power it back on and see if fan starts up
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• 3429[20:36:52] <OtakuSenpai> well the fan doesnt start
• 3430[20:37:01] <OtakuSenpai> or maybe it does, i didnt check
• 3431[20:37:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1589
• 3432[20:37:13] <jelly> *facepalm*
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• 3437[20:37:55] <xecuter> uiii i like palms ^^
• 3438[20:37:57] <xecuter> huhu
• 3439[20:38:34] <jelly> OtakuSenpai, ##hardware will probably have better ideas if it fails even while BIOS is still in control
• 3440[20:38:44] <OtakuSenpai> ok
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• 3444[20:39:37] <hop> i guess there are no changelogs on security.d.o
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• 3446[20:40:09] <bites> hop: then the changelog in /usr/share/doc/php5/ if that exists.
• 3447[20:40:39] <jelly> hop, if the package version is available from your repos, you can download it and take a peek inside.
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• 3451[20:41:02] <jelly> hop, if you plan to install it afterwards, just install and use apt-listchanges
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• 3453[20:41:54] <jelly> or see if there's something about that version's upload on tracker.debian.org/sourcepackagename (source package name is php5 probably)
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• 3457[20:43:03] <hop> jelly: found it on tracker.d.o, indeed
• 3458[20:43:59] <hop> hm...
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• 3467[20:50:05] <hop> related question: can i read up on why some vulnerabilities are not patched in (for example) wheezy-security?
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• 3469[20:50:55] <greycat> !lts
• 3470[20:50:55] <dpkg> Debian Long Term Support (LTS) is a project to extend the lifetime of all Debian stable releases to (at least) 5 years. Debian LTS is not handled by the Debian security team, but by a separate group of volunteers and companies. Ask me about <wheezy-lts> and see replaced-url
• 3471[20:51:25] <annadane> the "at least" worries me. i refuse to support jessie in 2073.
• 3472[20:51:33] <linuxthefish> how can I see what repo a package comes from?
• 3473[20:51:51] <annadane> apt show foo
• 3474[20:52:16] <jelly> linuxthefish, once it's installed, you can't. "apt-cache policy foo" will however tell you which versions of foo are available from which repo
• 3475[20:52:16] *** Quits: daze (~daze@replaced-ip) (Quit: daze)
• 3476[20:52:21] <greycat> linuxthefish: in general, you do not.
• 3477[20:52:27] <linuxthefish> thanks jelly , perfect
• 3478[20:52:32] <greycat> unless the package includes something like "dmm" in its version numbers
• 3479[20:52:41] *** Joins: daze (~daze@replaced-ip)
• 3480[20:52:58] <jelly> OBJECTION! circumstantial
• 3481[20:53:21] *** Quits: karl_gau55 (~taha@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 3482[20:53:46] <hop> greycat: thanks, but that doesn't answer my question. might be my bad english. i meant: can i read up on decisions on specific vulnerabilities without bother people on irc? at least i think that isn't answered in the faq or anywhere else in the wiki
• 3483[20:54:12] <linuxthefish> how come replaced-url
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• 3486[20:55:07] <jelly> linuxthefish, you seem to be searching on "contents" and not package names there
• 3487[20:55:24] *** Joins: daze (~daze@replaced-ip)
• 3488[20:55:52] <linuxthefish> whoops, sorry jelly I'm stupid :p
• 3489[20:55:57] <linuxthefish> wrong search box
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• 3491[20:56:23] *** Quits: most_enter (~most_ente@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3492[20:56:59] <jelly> maybe you're stupid, maybe that page with a dozen separate search forms is stupid
• 3493[20:57:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1583
• 3494[20:57:04] *** Quits: daze (~daze@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3495[20:57:11] <jelly> it's certainly debatable
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• 3498[20:57:37] <OtakuSenpai> "$setup" $* 2>/dev/null
• 3499[20:57:46] <OtakuSenpai> what does the above bash line do
• 3500[20:57:56] <greycat> Nothing good.
• 3501[20:58:02] <jelly> heheh
• 3502[20:58:08] <OtakuSenpai> ?
• 3503[20:58:10] <greycat> Mostly it breaks when you provide arguments with whitespace or glob chars in them.
• 3504[20:58:20] *** Joins: daze (~daze@replaced-ip)
• 3505[20:58:27] <hop> maybe not if IFS is set
• 3506[20:58:35] <OtakuSenpai> does it run $setup?
• 3507[20:58:43] <greycat> In the rare instances where it does not break, it tries to run the command that's in the variable named "setup" with the arguments that you previously provided, mangled.
• 3508[20:58:44] <hop> OtakuSenpai: that one we can't answer
• 3509[20:58:49] <hop> OtakuSenpai: it's a variable
• 3510[20:58:56] <jelly> grep '\$' /usr/bin/pidgin
• 3511[20:58:56] <OtakuSenpai> ok
• 3512[20:58:59] <hop> OtakuSenpai: $* are the positional parameters of the script
• 3513[20:59:04] <greycat> And it discards stderr so you can't see how it broke.
• 3514[20:59:06] <jelly> /usr/bin/pidgin.orig $*
• 3515[20:59:15] <greycat> IS WRONG
• 3516[20:59:17] <greycat> DO NOT DO
• 3517[20:59:28] <OtakuSenpai> ok
• 3518[20:59:31] <jelly> it's not me. It's pidgin-sipe maintainer.
• 3519[20:59:35] <greycat> Use "$@" with the quotes.
• 3520[20:59:45] <OtakuSenpai> yes
• 3521[21:01:18] <OtakuSenpai> will "$setup@$" run it
• 3522[21:01:28] <OtakuSenpai> can you provide a one line example
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• 3525[21:01:53] <jelly> "$setup" "$@"
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• 3528[21:02:14] <hop> OtakuSenpai: you'll have to read more carefully. "@$" is not the same as "$@"
• 3529[21:02:14] <jelly> instead of your initial thing
• 3530[21:02:19] *** Quits: MurkyLizard (~user@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 3531[21:02:21] <OtakuSenpai> yes
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• 3541[21:08:04] <OtakuSenpai> how do i run a variable which is like "setup = "$HOME/foo"" as a normal executable like "./foo"
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• 3546[21:08:42] <jelly> OtakuSenpai, what are you REALLY trying to do?
• 3547[21:08:59] <OtakuSenpai> make a small script for my bot
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• 3551[21:10:52] <bites> the same way as shown above?
• 3552[21:11:00] <greycat> Your bot uses bash scripts?
• 3553[21:11:06] <greycat> Not perl, or Tcl/eggdrop?
• 3554[21:11:58] *** Joins: galex-713_ (~galex-713@replaced-ip)
• 3555[21:12:44] <bites> but mind your spaces.
• 3556[21:14:14] <greycat> Or start with replaced-url
• 3557[21:14:27] *** Quits: galex-713 (~galex-713@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 3558[21:14:43] <OtakuSenpai> how do i find a exectuable in a folder
• 3559[21:14:48] *** Quits: Quantumcross (~weechat@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 3560[21:15:02] <OtakuSenpai> the exec "$setup" trys to run the folder
• 3561[21:15:06] <greycat> Most directories either have programs or not.
• 3562[21:15:17] <OtakuSenpai> i want to exec the program in the folder
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• 3564[21:15:33] <greycat> if you want to exec "$setup" then the setup variable should contain the name or path of the program
• 3565[21:15:34] *** Joins: amcorreia (~amcorreia@replaced-ip)
• 3566[21:15:45] <OtakuSenpai> how do i add tht
• 3567[21:15:51] <greycat> setup=myprogram
• 3568[21:16:01] <greycat> or if you need to specify the path, setup=/path/to/myprogram
• 3569[21:16:07] <jelly> setup=/bin/ls
• 3570[21:16:12] <jelly> "$setup"
• 3571[21:16:13] <OtakuSenpai> how tto find a relative path
• 3572[21:16:20] <greycat> What do you mean by "find"?!?!?!?!?
• 3573[21:16:27] <OtakuSenpai> i mean
• 3574[21:16:29] *** Joins: thiras (~thiras@replaced-ip)
• 3575[21:16:33] <greycat> Write the script correctly. THat's how you do it.
• 3576[21:16:34] *** Quits: Freddrickk (~fred@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3577[21:16:37] <OtakuSenpai> the folder will hav a program
• 3578[21:16:50] <OtakuSenpai> but the program name isnt known until running the script
• 3579[21:17:08] *** Joins: Freddrickk (~fred@replaced-ip)
• 3580[21:17:16] <greycat> If the program that you want to exec is called "bloof" and it is in the DIRECTORY (not folder) named "/usr/bin" then you could write setup=/usr/bin/bloof
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• 3583[21:17:46] <greycat> But this is all before-kindergarten level knowledge. If you don't know this basic stuff you have no business trying to write programs in bash.
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• 3589[21:19:44] <bites> you don't know the name of the program... is it going to be the only file in that directory?
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• 3615[21:42:09] <Thedarkb-X40> Hmm... Sid or Stable.
• 3616[21:42:55] <bites> stable
• 3617[21:42:56] *** Quits: RedAcor (~RedAcor@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3618[21:43:11] *** Joins: Repsakka (~Antti@replaced-ip)
• 3619[21:43:27] <Thedarkb-X40> I know one guy recommends Sid.
• 3620[21:43:35] <Thedarkb-X40> Nice to have up to date packages.
• 3621[21:43:40] <annadane> what is your use cas
• 3622[21:43:41] <annadane> e
• 3623[21:43:45] <greycat> !sns
• 3624[21:43:45] <dpkg> Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>.
• 3625[21:43:48] <annadane> just want a regular desktop? stable
• 3626[21:43:49] *** Joins: rj1_ (uid221277@replaced-ip)
• 3627[21:44:02] <annadane> replaced-url
• 3628[21:44:04] <bites> well my guy tells your guy to not recommend sid.
• 3629[21:44:12] <Thedarkb-X40> Client: HexChat 2.12.4 • OS: Ubuntu "artful" 17.10 • CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1.40GHz (600MHz) • Memory: Physical: 1.2 GiB Total (924.1 MiB Free) Swap: 945.3 MiB Total (945.3 MiB Free) • Storage: 11.7 GB / 31.8 GB (20.1 GB Free) • VGA: Intel Corporation 82852/855GM Integrated Graphics Device @ Intel Corporation 82852/82855 GM/GME/PM/GMV Processor to I/O Contr
• 3630[21:44:12] <Thedarkb-X40> oller • Uptime: 6m 25s
• 3631[21:44:19] <annadane> ubuntu is not debian
• 3632[21:44:23] <annadane> ubuntu does not have sid
• 3633[21:44:27] <Thedarkb-X40> I'm switching because I don't like Canonical.
• 3634[21:44:39] <Thedarkb-X40> I know Ubuntu isn't Debian
• 3635[21:44:48] *** Quits: sekizo (~schizo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
• 3636[21:44:58] <rj1_> isnt ubuntu a window manager for debian?
• 3637[21:45:03] <Thedarkb-X40> Every Ubuntu is Sid >_<
• 3638[21:45:14] *** Quits: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 3639[21:45:32] <BanHammor> if you want a moving target distro that doesn't break on a daily basis like Sid does, Arch would be it
• 3640[21:45:35] *** Joins: herbmillerjr (~herbmille@replaced-ip)
• 3641[21:45:46] <Thedarkb-X40> Last time I used Arch, it broke itself.
• 3642[21:45:53] <Thedarkb-X40> I think I'll just use Stable.
• 3643[21:46:03] <BanHammor> well, it IS a moving target :P
• 3644[21:46:09] <annadane> essentially, if you have to ask, use stable
• 3645[21:46:13] <Thedarkb-X40> By the way, can I preserve my home folder when I install over it.
• 3646[21:46:22] *** Joins: sh00p (~z@replaced-ip)
• 3647[21:46:27] <Thedarkb-X40> You can when installing Ubuntu
• 3648[21:46:29] <BanHammor> was it mounted separately?
• 3649[21:46:29] <annadane> rj1_, ubuntu is an entirely different distribution which is based on debian
• 3650[21:46:37] <Thedarkb-X40> Nope
• 3651[21:46:40] *** Quits: OtakuSenpai (~OtakuSenp@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
• 3652[21:46:41] *** Quits: DerLGm (~DerLGm@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 3653[21:46:43] <Thedarkb-X40> But I think I'll do that actually.
• 3654[21:46:48] <Thedarkb-X40> I have it that way on my T41p
• 3655[21:47:01] <rj1_> oh ok thx annadane i only use debian
• 3656[21:47:03] <BanHammor> you might wanna split home into a separate mount before your install then
• 3657[21:47:21] <annadane> is there a way to stop MATE from displaying the "opening foo" thing in the taskbar
• 3658[21:47:27] <annadane> the one in backports
• 3659[21:47:32] <Thedarkb-X40> Is there a Debian Live CD?
• 3660[21:47:37] <BanHammor> sometimes installing without formatting the hard drive works, sometimes it doesn't, it's really your luck
• 3661[21:47:44] <Thedarkb-X40> Fair enough.
• 3662[21:47:51] <Thedarkb-X40> Actually, I have a gparted ISO somewhere.
• 3663[21:48:03] *** Joins: rexan (~rexan@replaced-ip)
• 3664[21:48:22] <greycat> There are dozens of live CDs, each one broken in its own unique, special ways!
• 3665[21:48:26] <Thedarkb-X40> Heh
• 3666[21:48:45] <Thedarkb-X40> The best live distro is TinyCore Linux.
• 3667[21:48:48] *** Quits: vbutnaru (~vbutnaru@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3668[21:48:55] <Thedarkb-X40> It's completely designed around running from a RAM disk.
• 3669[21:49:16] <noodlepie> Have you tried R.I.P.Linux (rescue is possible), those ISO are for any dist.
• 3670[21:49:28] <annadane> never heard of it until now, interesting.
• 3671[21:49:40] <BanHammor> replaced-url
• 3672[21:49:42] <noodlepie> I used it a couple of times to unfrag a dead host
• 3673[21:50:15] *** Quits: BanHammor (~srsly@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3674[21:50:22] <noodlepie> It runs X and has a number of default apps. I only needed to fix /etc/resolv.conf with it but it comfortably supported that.
• 3675[21:50:24] <bites> have it on my multiboot usb stick with parted and a few other things.
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• 3679[21:51:15] <annadane> as far as i'm aware debian lists live CDs but they're not official as such?
• 3680[21:51:53] *** Quits: kion (~kion@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 3681[21:52:34] <bites> the normal debian live isos are official
• 3682[21:52:38] <alkisg> (10:48:45 μμ) Thedarkb-X40: The best live distro is TinyCore Linux. => meh, until you try to customize it and you spend days to do what you can do in debian with an apt install
• 3683[21:52:48] <Thedarkb-X40> Fight me :P
• 3684[21:52:49] *** Joins: f4cl3y (~f4cl3y@replaced-ip)
• 3685[21:53:10] *** Joins: sekizo (~schizo@replaced-ip)
• 3686[21:53:21] <Thedarkb-X40> I think it's really easy to customize.
• 3687[21:53:39] *** Quits: freddy__ (~freddy@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 3688[21:53:45] <alkisg> And it has maybe 100 times less packages than debian...
• 3689[21:54:08] <Thedarkb-X40> I maintain one.
• 3690[21:54:22] *** Quits: GrimKriegor (~GrimKrieg@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 3691[21:54:32] * shingouz wonders what this has to do with debian support
• 3692[21:54:50] <greycat> there was a question about Debian's Live CDs
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• 3694[21:55:34] *** Joins: sm0rux (~sm0rux@replaced-ip)
• 3695[21:56:35] <greycat> A Live CD is really not a useful way to represent Debian at all. The real strength of Debian is the long-term stability of an installation. People install once and then upgrade for 10, 15, 20 years until the hardware dies. You can't represent that with a Live CD that you can't upgrade or customize.
• 3696[21:57:01] *** Joins: DrWatson (~DrWatson_@replaced-ip)
• 3697[21:57:03] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1590
• 3698[21:57:12] <annadane> oh, okay. today i discovered mate-tweak
• 3699[21:57:20] <Thedarkb-X40> This ThinkPad is 14 years old
• 3700[21:57:21] *** Quits: sigsts (~sigsts@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 3701[21:57:26] <Thedarkb-X40> Think it'll make it another 14?
• 3702[21:57:30] <annadane> which i guess makes sense as it's a gnome fork
• 3703[21:57:54] *** Joins: OtakuSenpai (~OtakuSenp@replaced-ip)
• 3704[21:58:08] *** Joins: freddy__ (~freddy@replaced-ip)
• 3705[21:58:20] <alkisg> There's stability but there's also flexibility, and also 30000+ packages. Can't easily match that :)
• 3706[21:59:20] <annadane> which reminds me, this is debian's 25th anniversary
• 3707[22:00:22] *** Quits: freddy_ (~freddy@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 3708[22:01:08] <Thedarkb-X40> Today?
• 3709[22:01:14] <Thedarkb-X40> What better day to return.
• 3710[22:01:32] <greycat> I think she means this year.
• 3711[22:01:35] *** Joins: Quatroking (~Quatrokin@replaced-ip)
• 3712[22:01:52] <annadane> this year
• 3713[22:02:07] <Thedarkb-X40> Anyone know exactly when?
• 3714[22:02:09] *** Quits: Ekchuan (~RandyMars@replaced-ip) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
• 3715[22:02:14] *** Joins: nhandler (~nhandler@replaced-ip)
• 3716[22:02:26] <greycat> would depend on what event you consider the starting point
• 3717[22:02:29] *** Joins: sigsts (~sigsts@replaced-ip)
• 3718[22:02:36] <bites> 16th august is debian day.
• 3719[22:02:40] <Thedarkb-X40> First release?
• 3720[22:02:44] *** Joins: Tom_- (~tomg@replaced-ip)
• 3721[22:02:46] *** Quits: altin_ (~altin@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 3722[22:03:28] <greycat> !1.1
• 3723[22:03:28] <dpkg> from memory, buzz is Debian 1.1, released June 1996 (474 packages, 2.0 kernel, fully ELF, dpkg). Ask me about <archive>.
• 3724[22:03:35] *** Quits: supersoju (~ajones@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 3725[22:03:43] <Thedarkb-X40> !1.0
• 3726[22:03:54] <greycat> !debian 1.0
• 3727[22:03:54] <dpkg> debian 1.0 is probably a mistake by InfoMagic. They released an unstable version of Debian as 1.0. Google groups archives the posting by Bruce Perens announcing this at replaced-url
• 3728[22:04:36] *** Joins: kion (~kion@replaced-ip)
• 3729[22:05:48] <bites> apropos multiboot usb. can i make it work with the debian installer? on my usb i have a directory filled with isos and a bunch of grub configs for the isos. live systems work great, but the debian installer fails in the second of third step because it tries to mount a cd as package repository, which it can't find.
• 3730[22:06:09] <bites> s/of/or/
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• 3732[22:07:08] <Thedarkb-X40> dpkg is a cool bot
• 3733[22:07:09] <dpkg> Yep, I'm cool
• 3734[22:07:15] <Thedarkb-X40> lol
• 3735[22:07:23] <bites> netboot works, but i would like to use the firmware netinstaller too.
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• 3745[22:13:21] <imMute> could someone explain why the linux-image-amd64 and linux-image-3.16.0-4-amd64 are separate packages?? And why the -5- package was created and switched to?
• 3746[22:13:29] *** Quits: Infra_HDC (~askinfra@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3747[22:13:48] <greycat> linux-image-amd64 is a meta-package that ensures you will continue to get the latest kernel release even when the ABI changes
• 3748[22:13:56] <LeoNerd> "linux-image-amd64" is a sma... what greycat said
• 3749[22:14:05] <greycat> ("latest" being relative to your distribution, which in your case is oldstable)
• 3750[22:14:09] <annadane> rtass?
• 3751[22:14:13] <Thedarkb-X40> Is there a risk of Debian ever dropping i686 support?
• 3752[22:14:25] *** Quits: DrWatson (~DrWatson_@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 3753[22:14:30] <greycat> They dropped i586 with stretch, so ... yes, maybe? SOme day?
• 3754[22:15:02] <greycat> I wouldn't expect it to happen any time soon.
• 3755[22:15:03] <Thedarkb-X40> Hopefully after all my 32 bit ThinkPads are either dead or replaced.
• 3756[22:16:08] <imMute> greycat: so, the -5- is an indication of an ABI change?
• 3757[22:16:13] <greycat> Yes.
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• 3759[22:16:25] <greycat> There were 2 kernel ABI changes quite recently, during this meltdown/spectre craze.
• 3760[22:16:58] <imMute> to clarify (and this is probably a stupid question), that is only an ABI change for kernel drivers? nothing in userspace should care?
• 3761[22:17:00] *** Quits: jerdef82 (~jerdef@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3762[22:17:09] <greycat> correct
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• 3764[22:17:34] <imMute> so for a final and less stupid question: now that -5- is a thing, will -4- continue to receive updates?
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• 3771[22:18:46] <annadane> (what is ~5~?)
• 3772[22:18:52] <annadane> -*
• 3773[22:19:02] <greycat> 5th ABI (4th time the ABI changed) for that kernel package series
• 3774[22:19:22] <annadane> oh, jessie.
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• 3780[22:21:27] <imMute> so.... updates for the -4- branch?
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• 3792[22:24:15] <Meteoroid> ¨During the installation process, you are given the opportunity to select additional software to install.¨ I used enter instead of space when choosing packages. Silly me. Can I easily uninstall some and reinstall other packages after the installation procedure?
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• 3795[22:24:48] <greycat> Yes. Adding more is easy ("apt install foo bar baz"). Removing is somewhat trickier, but still possible.
• 3796[22:25:15] <annadane> yes, but mind the apt autoremove list, you probably have gnome now and if you remove something that a lot depends on you'll have a lot of other programs that are "no longer needed" and show up in that list
• 3797[22:25:47] <greycat> Many people never bother removing anything unless there's an actual conflict. It's a lot easier just to let it sit there doing nothing.
• 3798[22:25:58] <annadane> yeah, i don't touch apt autoremove at all these days
• 3799[22:26:12] <Meteoroid> its supposed to become a webserver, so i thought it might be better to not have a grapical environment installed
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• 3801[22:26:44] <greycat> if you accidentally put gnome on a web server it might be faster just to reinstall
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• 3804[22:27:06] <Meteoroid> :(
• 3805[22:27:11] <Meteoroid> alright than
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• 3808[22:27:35] <RoyK> Meteoroid: or just disable it on startup
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• 3810[22:27:47] <RoyK> Meteoroid: it's probably just a gigabyte or so of disk space
• 3811[22:28:17] *** Joins: Ticho (~Ticho@replaced-ip)
• 3812[22:28:18] <greycat> plus continued updates for thousands of useless packages that you never wanted
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• 3814[22:28:38] <RoyK> greycat: well, most of us have sufficient bandwidth
• 3815[22:29:04] <RoyK> greycat: and if Meteoroid has logs of the installed packages, or the commandline used to install them, removing them shouldn't be much hassle
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• 3817[22:29:40] <RoyK> greycat: just apt-get purge <thispackage> && apt-get autoremove
• 3818[22:30:02] <RoyK> greycat: a full reinstall seems overkill to me
• 3819[22:30:04] <annadane> for a server i'd at least use a window manager if a desktop at all, yeah
• 3820[22:30:07] <greycat> *shrug&
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• 3822[22:30:40] <RoyK> greycat: shrug away, just trying to say it's not the end of the world to nstall something not needed
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• 3825[22:30:58] <greycat> there's certainly more than one way to solve the problemn
• 3826[22:31:31] <RoyK> and a full reinstall is the "windows way", and that's not needed
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• 3828[22:32:03] <greycat> Not needed, correct. But it may still be faster than trying to figure out how to remove gnome, and then actually removing it.
• 3829[22:32:16] <RoyK> greycat: no, not really
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• 3833[22:32:49] <RoyK> greycat: if Meteoroid did an apt-get install debian-desktop, then removing it and running autoremove will remove the lot
• 3834[22:33:04] <Thedarkb-X40> How did they drop i586 exactly?
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• 3836[22:33:12] <greycat> Since you don't have to repeat the partitioning step (which is where the real time goes, for me), the actually reinstall would only take something like 10 minutes.
• 3837[22:33:23] <greycat> How much time has *already* been spent trying to figure out what to do?
• 3838[22:33:32] <Thedarkb-X40> The only difference between the i486 and i586 is the CPUID instruction.
• 3839[22:33:46] <RoyK> greycat: depends how much has been configured etc
• 3840[22:33:48] <noodlepie> Does i586 not have extra instructions?
• 3841[22:34:14] <greycat> I'm assuming he came here directly after screwing up in tasksel, and has not even rebooted into the new system yet, let alone installed or configured anything.
• 3842[22:34:30] <noodlepie> Or different instruction pieplining for is Pipeline Burst Cache?
• 3843[22:34:34] *** Joins: zblakany (~zblakany@replaced-ip)
• 3844[22:35:08] <Meteoroid> only one update after
• 3845[22:35:14] <Meteoroid> nothing else was done
• 3846[22:35:17] <RoyK> noodlepie: most new architectures have new instructions
• 3847[22:35:18] <Thedarkb-X40> i686 just adds a 36 bit address bus and some improved speculative execution.
• 3848[22:35:28] <annadane> anyway, installing debian with no desktop takes 10 minutes or a bit under, you don't blow an entire afternoon
• 3849[22:35:35] <Thedarkb-X40> First CPU to be affected by Spectre
• 3850[22:35:50] *** Quits: xet7 (~xet7@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3851[22:35:53] <annadane> (like windows... please install updates...)
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• 3854[22:36:28] <Thedarkb-X40> Did they discontinue non PAE builds or something.
• 3855[22:36:28] <Meteoroid> well its also a matter of learning, if removing packages can work just fine, I want to give it a try. If it ends up fucked up I can still reinstall the whole os
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• 3858[22:36:44] <RoyK> Meteoroid: it should work well
• 3859[22:36:51] <Meteoroid> now i just need to leanr how
• 3860[22:36:53] <Meteoroid> :p
• 3861[22:37:13] <RoyK> Meteoroid: what was the apt(-get) install command you used to install gnome in the first place?
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• 3864[22:37:25] <annadane> you'd apt remove/purge task-gnome-desktop or whatever it is and then apt autoremove, maybe check over the list twice to make sure it's not doing anything really stupid
• 3865[22:37:28] <noodlepie> You can just look at the error logs in /var/log and fix the offending packages without reinstalling everything
• 3866[22:37:34] <Meteoroid> it was just part of the installation stpes
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• 3871[22:38:04] <RoyK> Meteoroid: I see
• 3872[22:38:12] <RoyK> Meteoroid: but as annadane says
• 3873[22:38:15] <greycat> RoyK: as I said, he screwed up in tasksel (hit Enter instead of Space)
• 3874[22:38:21] *** Joins: Christian75 (~Christian@replaced-ip)
• 3875[22:38:22] <Meteoroid> yes
• 3876[22:38:35] <Meteoroid> typical isnt it
• 3877[22:38:37] * RoyK ignores greycat
• 3878[22:38:54] <annadane> well, remove is probably sufficient, configs won't have had time to get made yet on a fresh install
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• 3881[22:39:27] <annadane> i don't know whether doing it from outside gnome is safer, in a virtual terminal, as you're removing x while you're inside x
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• 3883[22:40:00] <annadane> that sounds most sane
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• 3888[22:41:33] <jhutchins_wk> Yeah, I'd do it from a regular console, not within X.
• 3889[22:42:09] <Thedarkb-X40> I think i486 support makes more sense than MIPS support.
• 3890[22:42:17] <greycat> It shouldn't remove X, but it would definitely remove want to some things you're inside of.
• 3891[22:42:31] <greycat> words too hard
• 3892[22:43:14] <greycat> Thedarkb-X40: i486 support was removed in jessie, IIRC; i586 removed in stretch
• 3893[22:43:16] <RoyK> greycat: why do you want Meteoroid to jump on the easy track when (s)he just wants to learn how to fix this?
• 3894[22:43:28] <Thedarkb-X40> greycat, Know why or how?
• 3895[22:43:52] <RoyK> Thedarkb-X40: do you use an i[45]86 processor?
• 3896[22:43:53] <greycat> I'm simply correcting the statement about removing X. The X server isn't a dependency of GNOME, since it can be used independently and on another host.
• 3897[22:44:05] *** Quits: xdruppi (~xdruppi_@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3898[22:44:24] <annadane> The 32-bit PC support (known as the Debian architecture i386) now no longer covers a plain i586 processor. The new baseline is the i686, although some i586 processors (e.g. the “AMD Geode”) will remain supported. replaced-url
• 3899[22:44:27] <Thedarkb-X40> RoyK, Not anymore but I do know that they still sell i486 and i586 embedded systems
• 3900[22:44:38] <RoyK> Thedarkb-X40: last I checked, a raspberry pi 3 is way faster than those old things ;)
• 3901[22:44:39] <Thedarkb-X40> Intel still sell i586 CPUs
• 3902[22:44:51] <RoyK> just use ARM
• 3903[22:45:07] <annadane> the general reason is that there aren't volunteers to continue supporting a given architecture
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• 3905[22:45:13] <annadane> i don't know about 586 specifically
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• 3907[22:45:28] <Thedarkb-X40> I just fiddle around with Z80s, Linux isn't coming to them ever.
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• 3909[22:45:35] <Thedarkb-X40> I'd be lucky to get MINIX running.
• 3910[22:45:56] *** Quits: holmgren (magnus@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3911[22:45:58] <RoyK> Thedarkb-X40: hehe - they can address 64kB of memory ;)
• 3912[22:46:03] <Thedarkb-X40> Not the modern ones.
• 3913[22:46:05] <Thedarkb-X40> A full 15MB
• 3914[22:46:09] <Thedarkb-X40> 16*
• 3915[22:46:12] <RoyK> on a z80?
• 3916[22:46:14] <Thedarkb-X40> Yup
• 3917[22:46:16] <RoyK> it's an 8bit system
• 3918[22:46:30] <Thedarkb-X40> Physical Address Extensions are a thing.
• 3919[22:46:34] <RoyK> just use ARM ;)
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• 3921[22:46:47] <Thedarkb-X40> The Z80 isn't as power hungry
• 3922[22:47:01] * noodlepie has coded ARM assembler for 25 years!
• 3923[22:47:10] <Thedarkb-X40> and they run stably from 300khz to 50mhz
• 3924[22:47:16] <Thedarkb-X40> The modern ones.
• 3925[22:47:20] <Thedarkb-X40> Not the eighties ones.
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• 3927[22:47:25] <RoyK> Thedarkb-X40: perhaps an esp32, then?
• 3928[22:47:38] <RoyK> no need for a fancy operating system on those, really
• 3929[22:47:58] <Thedarkb-X40> You can run MP/M in a Z80
• 3930[22:48:03] <Thedarkb-X40> Which is.... kind of fancy.
• 3931[22:48:13] <noodlepie> Doing "movs &address, r1" sets the cpu flags based on the value moved into register1 from memory..
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• 3933[22:48:37] <RoyK> Thedarkb-X40: I'd guess it's time to divert to #debian-offtopic ;)
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• 3936[22:49:32] <noodlepie> then lets say "addge r1, r2, r3" will add register1 to register2 and put the result in register3 ONLY IF the previous setflags value setting is greter than 0
• 3937[22:49:54] <noodlepie> You don't need to do compare and conditional jumps every where
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• 3940[22:50:20] <noodlepie> which helps when pipelining and with branch predictions. ARM is really the best kept computer secret
• 3941[22:50:33] <RoyK> noodlepie: #debian-offtopic for you too? ;)
• 3942[22:50:36] <Thedarkb-X40> It was designed by some complete noobs.
• 3943[22:50:47] *** Quits: hkw (~hkw@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3944[22:50:55] <noodlepie> Acorn computers you mean?
• 3945[22:51:00] <noodlepie> I think its dead neat
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• 3947[22:51:04] <Thedarkb-X40> They never designed a CPU before ARM
• 3948[22:51:12] <Thedarkb-X40> It's why they were able to think outside the box.
• 3949[22:51:19] <noodlepie> ah
• 3950[22:51:55] <noodlepie> I wrote a 3D model viewer (fully multitasking and windows gui based (on RISCOS) using it, loads of fun
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• 3954[22:53:34] <hypn0> what abt a pic of it
• 3955[22:53:59] <annadane> i agree though, it's too early in the day to have off topic chatter in #debian
• 3956[22:54:27] <CarlFK> vincent_c: you packaged conky. why doesn't it autostart ?
• 3957[22:54:36] <CarlFK> for anyone that wants to see: replaced-url
• 3958[22:54:57] <annadane> did you try setting it to autostart in your de/wm?
• 3959[22:55:25] <noodlepie> that's asking some, I can probably make some screen captures with an emulator if I can dig out my old floppies with it on.
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• 3970[22:57:22] <noodlepie> it was for a school project (my A level Computing course work). I got an "A" (:
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• 3974[22:58:14] <noodlepie> it supprted drag and drop loading and saving, message passing and a 100% assembler full screen view mode where you could rotate and scale the model.
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• 3977[22:58:39] <noodlepie> flat shaded polygons! Ah youth!
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• 3988[23:00:48] <Meteoroid> well than. I just threw myself into the deep. Lets try and set up a webserver in debian, even though i hardly used linux before. How hard can it be. And it is in fact not hard at all. untill i decided i want to try and get rid of grapical interfaces
• 3989[23:01:14] <noodlepie> I wrote a recursive gouraud shader for the gradiented triangles but it was a bit slow on the 25Mhz ARM
• 3990[23:01:16] <greycat> Which web server are you using?
• 3991[23:01:34] *** Quits: stoimenow (~Asus@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 3992[23:01:44] <Meteoroid> i am going to use nginx and django
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• 3994[23:02:02] <Meteoroid> but i got started on setting up the vps only 10 minutes ago
• 3995[23:02:09] <greycat> OK, cool. nginx is easy if you know a bit about regular expressions and are comfortable with a text editor.
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• 3997[23:02:18] <noodlepie> Meteoroid, something like webmin can help configuration as it htmlizes config file editing into forms
• 3998[23:02:31] <greycat> !webmin
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• 4000[23:02:53] <bites> [Loading factoid]
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• 4002[23:03:05] <dpkg> Webmin is a lame web-based interface for unsafe system administration for Unix. Check it out at replaced-url
• 4003[23:03:06] <hop> Meteoroid: what do you want to use to run the django app itself?
• 4004[23:03:08] <bites> ha
• 4005[23:03:10] <greycat> I think he died of webmin expo... no, there he goes.
• 4006[23:03:12] <RoyK> webmin is a good way to get a headache
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• 4008[23:03:57] <Meteoroid> i.. i dont know waht i am doing...
• 4009[23:04:07] <Meteoroid> look, i am new to linux as a whole
• 4010[23:04:11] <RoyK> noodlepie: just use the commandline - it may seem like black magic at first, but it's not that hard ;)
• 4011[23:04:23] <Thedarkb-X40> You'll want Apache for a web server
• 4012[23:04:25] <Meteoroid> i am ok with the command line
• 4013[23:04:30] <Meteoroid> but installing packages ..
• 4014[23:04:33] <Meteoroid> or uninstalling
• 4015[23:04:40] <Thedarkb-X40> That's easy
• 4016[23:04:42] <Meteoroid> or cheking what is running
• 4017[23:04:47] <Meteoroid> i bet it is
• 4018[23:04:47] <Thedarkb-X40> sudo apt install <package>
• 4019[23:04:49] <RoyK> systemctl status <ojiasdf>
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• 4021[23:04:57] <Thedarkb-X40> or sudo apt remove <package>
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• 4026[23:05:06] <noodlepie> Meteoroid, do you understand the abstract meanings of what you are trying to do - the cross platform basic specs on running a web server for example, most apps are easily configured from there
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• 4028[23:05:17] <Meteoroid> but, how do i know what the name of the package is
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• 4030[23:05:37] <Thedarkb-X40> just type in apache
• 4031[23:05:37] <RoyK> Meteoroid: just google a bit - it may take a wee while to learn things, but you will ;)
• 4032[23:05:42] <Thedarkb-X40> That's probably the one.
• 4033[23:05:47] <greycat> Experience, or apt-cache search, or google search, or replaced-url
• 4034[23:05:58] <noodlepie> linux is just another bit of software which does what you want but you still need to know the basics of networking aside from specific OS support
• 4035[23:06:02] <RoyK> Meteoroid: when I started out with slackware 2.1 in 1994, I had no internet access, but I learned things anyway
• 4036[23:06:03] <hop> that's where linux falls down a bit :)
• 4037[23:06:08] <Meteoroid> no i was going nginx but first iwanted to make sure the webserver is lean
• 4038[23:06:14] <noodlepie> Meteoroid, "apt-cache search webserver"
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• 4040[23:06:31] <RoyK> you'd probably want nginx or apache for webserver
• 4041[23:06:37] <RoyK> I'd recommend nginx
• 4042[23:06:39] <greycat> He already said nginx.
• 4043[23:06:55] <greycat> Good news: the package name for nginx is nginx.
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• 4045[23:07:05] <RoyK> !nginx
• 4046[23:07:05] <dpkg> Nginx (engine x) is an open source HTTP server (supports FastCGI, not CGI), reverse proxy and POP3/IMAP/SMTP proxy. replaced-url
• 4047[23:07:06] <Meteoroid> i know ok ok
• 4048[23:07:08] <Meteoroid> but
• 4049[23:07:09] <CarlFK> annadane: I want to know why the package doesn't do that for me.
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• 4051[23:07:36] <RoyK> CarlFK: why it doesn't cook dinner?
• 4052[23:08:00] <annadane> i mean, something autostarting entirely depends on the package, desktop you're using, configuration...
• 4053[23:08:04] <Meteoroid> i am still trying to clean up the mess i made with tasksel
• 4054[23:08:12] <annadane> if your question is, "i set it to autostart and it's not working" fine
• 4055[23:08:14] <hop> :D
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• 4057[23:08:43] <hop> running a django project is a bit too "pro" for things like tasksel to help you much
• 4058[23:08:47] <CarlFK> annadane: depends on the package - thats why I addressed the person who packaged it
• 4059[23:09:24] <greycat> I'd suggest getting nginx up and running first.
• 4060[23:09:41] <hop> hm, hm.
• 4061[23:09:44] <greycat> Create a virtual domain or two, make sure you understand what's going on and how things are configured -- THEN dive into the deep end.
• 4062[23:09:46] <LeoNerd> Does anyone know of a reason why `ip -6 addr add ...` would give me "Permission denied" (yes running as root) trying to add any 'v6 address at all, to any of my ethernet NICs, when the same command will happily add such an address on bridge interfaces, VLANs, others..?
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• 4065[23:10:13] <hop> maybe getting gunicorn up manually, then via supervisord, then hooking it into nginx (as reverse proxy) is more straight forward
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• 4068[23:11:27] <Meteoroid> right now.. I am at level 1. How do i reach the commandline and get rid of xserver and other stuff I dont need
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• 4070[23:11:45] <hop> Meteoroid: is this a vm?
• 4071[23:11:46] *** Joins: DerLGm (~DerLGm@replaced-ip)
• 4072[23:11:54] <greycat> Boot into Debian. If you get a GUI, press Ctrl-Alt-F2 to get to a console.
• 4073[23:12:15] <greycat> Type "root" and then root's password -OR- type your username and your user's password, and then type "su" and root's password.
• 4074[23:12:36] <hop> ?
• 4075[23:12:47] <Meteoroid> ok yes, but the uninstalling part
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• 4078[23:13:05] <hop> root shouldn't have a password and sudo is preferable to su
• 4079[23:13:11] <greycat> Lies and slander.
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• 4086[23:15:18] <CarlFK> Meteoroid: sounds like you want a minimal install - just the base to then install what you need. want to start over ?
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• 4090[23:15:32] <hop> i'd vote for that as well
• 4091[23:16:09] <annadane> unleash the paperclip. "it looks like you're trying to..."
• 4092[23:16:26] <Meteoroid> lol
• 4093[23:16:50] <greycat> CarlFK: RoyK yelled at me when I suggested it would be faster just to reinstall
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• 4098[23:18:26] <CarlFK> greycat: not only faster, but less tedious, less cruft left around.. not sure whats worth yelling abut :p
• 4099[23:18:50] <permalink> hi guys . for Debian 9 Stretch what AMD drivers would be more stable ? proprietary or the open source ones ?
• 4100[23:19:32] <permalink> btw i want to use a Sapphire HD 7770 OC GHz edition
• 4101[23:19:47] <Meteoroid> wtf. I could just tasksel remove desktop?!
• 4102[23:20:02] <greycat> no
• 4103[23:20:13] <greycat> Or... if that actually works, it's completely new to me.
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• 4105[23:20:33] <Meteoroid> it did something
• 4106[23:20:38] <hop> you'd need something like debfoster or whatever the cool kids use nowadays
• 4107[23:20:56] <greycat> I think the kids are into "apt autoremove" now.
• 4108[23:21:07] <noodlepie> permalink, only one type of driver would greatly benefit from your open testing and bug reports and fixes. The FREE one!
• 4109[23:21:20] <hop> that's not that reliable in my experience. but's it's been a while
• 4110[23:21:53] <annadane> tasksel remove sounds familiar... i was in favor of apt remove task-gnome-desktop, hey, wouldn't it be a great idea for me to test things before giving advice that doesn't work? yes, it would
• 4111[23:22:16] <greycat> root@svr5:~# cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99local
• 4112[23:22:16] <greycat> APT::NeverAutoRemove ".";
• 4113[23:22:25] <greycat> That's my opinion on autoremove.
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• 4116[23:22:44] <annadane> does that disallow you if you try to do it?
• 4117[23:23:12] <greycat> It means that apt's autoremove list is always empty.
• 4118[23:23:26] <annadane> oh, right
• 4119[23:23:45] <Meteoroid> I did tasksel remove desktop (really that easy?!) and than it hung on 100%. for fuck sake
• 4120[23:24:05] <greycat> I truly have no idea what "tasksel remove desktop" does.
• 4121[23:24:07] <Meteoroid> having the usual bad first experience with linux
• 4122[23:24:16] <Meteoroid> neither do I
• 4123[23:24:19] <greycat> I didn't even know tasksel *took arguments*
• 4124[23:24:21] <annadane> that's okay, the second time gets easier
• 4125[23:24:25] <annadane> it took me about 57
• 4126[23:24:27] <Meteoroid> and it appeas neither does tasksel
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• 4128[23:24:48] <CarlFK> permalink: proprietary is generally bad. Use the open source ones, that;'s just the right thing to do.
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• 4131[23:25:23] <annadane> permalink, i'd say unless you're having problems, just use the open one that comes with debian by default; amd is not *quite* as terrible as nouveau
• 4132[23:25:35] <Meteoroid> annadane was right, reinstalling is way faster. But it feels lik being my father, unpugging stuff if he can figure out how to change a setting, in the hope it will reset.
• 4133[23:25:48] <permalink> noodlepie, thanks brah , i read that the proprietary ones could not work with the next kernel updates and you have to reinstall them manually
• 4134[23:26:10] <annadane> sometimes. the advance of open source drivers is that they work with everything else open source
• 4135[23:26:22] <annadane> which isn't an option for me because nouveau is *awful* and crashes doing *anything*
• 4136[23:26:41] <annadane> but you don't "have to", it really depends on the kernel update
• 4137[23:26:47] <permalink> i mention that i had nvidia drivers previously but now i purged them and i removed the xorg.conf file
• 4138[23:26:49] <annadane> sometimes issues, sometimes not
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• 4142[23:27:19] <permalink> so now if i shutdown the pc and plug the AMD card the drivers should load automagically ?
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• 4144[23:28:17] <annadane> if you, as root, type "update-alternatives --config glx" and select mesa, then shut down the computer and plug in the amd card, yes
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• 4146[23:28:45] <noodlepie> Using in kernel modules help you manage your system more easily - it's more automated
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• 4153[23:32:14] <permalink> for the moment i just uninstalled and purged the nvidia drivers and removed the xorg.conf. a guy on the internet suggest i should just do apt install firmware-linux llvm-3.9 clang-3.9
• 4154[23:32:19] <permalink> what do you suggest ?
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• 4160[23:35:18] <annadane> i don't know, sorry
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• 4164[23:35:46] <annadane> by the way, per my earlier question, the way you get rid of the "opening foo" in the mate (backports) panel is by removing system monitor from the panel
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• 4190[23:52:12] <annadane> never mind. false alarm, still happens
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