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• 4[00:01:05] <jmcnaught> Lady_Aleena: replaced-url
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• 7[00:03:15] <Lady_Aleena> Thanks jmcnaught
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• 9[00:04:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1460
• 10[00:04:53] <ironm> Is there a workaround for the followig error message? (buster)
• 11[00:04:56] <ironm> E: Release file for replaced-url
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• 14[00:05:45] <ironm> I try create a debian live image (buster). For stretch it is working as expected
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• 19[00:09:28] <Lady_Aleena> How do I find out if anything I currently have installed will cause trouble during upgrading?
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• 24[00:11:23] <Lady_Aleena> I think I have only 1 program I installed from a .deb, everything else I think I installed with apt-get.
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• 26[00:12:05] <jmcnaught> ironm: did you try a different mirror?
• 27[00:12:51] <jmcnaught> Lady_Aleena: if you follow the upgrade instructions in the stretch release notes it will guide you through checking for potential package problems before the upgrade
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• 38[00:16:43] <Lady_Aleena> I will look at them again, and hopefully, they won't confuse me this time.
• 39[00:17:03] <Lady_Aleena> But I need to vacuum my house and make the bed first.
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• 41[00:17:34] <ironm> jmcnaught, I didn't try another mirror. Tere are scripts from live build
• 42[00:17:56] <ironm> there
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• 44[00:20:12] <jmcnaught> ironm: buster-updates should still be empty anyways because buster hasn't released yet
• 45[00:20:38] <dvs> apt-get install vacuum-house
• 46[00:21:02] <norwood67> apt-get install house-vacuum-robot
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• 50[00:22:32] <ironm> jmcnaught, I have already created buster live images last in November 2018
• 51[00:22:43] <ironm> s/last //
• 52[00:23:31] <ironm> jmcnaught, E: Release file for replaced-url
• 53[00:24:30] <ironm> interesting .. the time is still changing in the error message
• 54[00:24:52] <ironm> E: Release file for replaced-url
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• 59[00:27:12] <norwood67> Hi. when using fbi or fim on images in an CIFS mounted directory (fim -d /dev/tty1 img01.jpg) i get the error (fim - No loadable images specified.), when i do the same command when the image is on the local drive, it is displayed without a problem.
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• 61[00:28:10] <somiaj> norwood67: wonder if it is a permissions issue of some sort, since cifs only mimics standard unix permissions.
• 62[00:28:22] <somiaj> do you notice any difference in the output of 'file img01.jpg' depending on which location it is in?
• 63[00:28:34] <norwood67> maybe, i don't know
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• 65[00:28:46] <norwood67> file?
• 66[00:28:51] <somiaj> like maybe fim is doing some check that fails on cifs.
• 67[00:29:00] <somiaj> file should output information about the file (its a command)
• 68[00:29:11] <norwood67> checking
• 69[00:29:38] <somiaj> I can't think of what else could be the issue, but this is just a guess
• 70[00:31:46] <norwood67> no different in file output, same permissions.
• 71[00:32:14] <somiaj> another thought, run the command from $HOME, so fim -d /dev/tty1 /full/path/to/img01.jpg as opposed to inside the mount directory. Maybe fim does something in pwd that can't be done on a cifs mount.
• 72[00:32:55] <norwood67> somiaj: thanks. i had tried that and it doesn't work either
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• 74[00:33:43] <somiaj> I'm out of ideas, but there is some subtle difference due to the cifs mount I'm assuming, maybe write a script, 'myfim' which copys the file to /tmp then runs the command.
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• 76[00:34:08] <somiaj> kinda a hacky solution, but it will get you by until you can figure out what is actually causing the problem.
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• 79[00:35:38] <norwood67> yeah, i was hoping to avoid that
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• 82[00:37:31] <somiaj> Have you read through the man page looking for things about limitations/bugs of fim, sometimes such stuff is there.
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• 84[00:39:17] <norwood67> yeah, nothing indicating cifs or the error message isn't on google for exact match
• 85[00:39:36] <norwood67> or = and
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• 87[00:39:48] <norwood67> so, i'm just going to shelve it for a while
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• 112[01:03:18] <anthropohedron> Okay, I have now learned that everything is terrible and it is impossible to install stretch with encrypted-root-on-lvm via PXE boot. This is because 1) PXE boot downloads only the latest installer components, so the release netboot can't find kernel modules, and 2) the version of cryptsetup in buster (which is what the daily netboot is based on) defaults to LUKS2.
• 113[01:03:58] <anthropohedron> When are we expecting buster to be released? I can probably just install buster and wait until it's stable if it isn't too long.
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• 115[01:04:23] <somiaj> buster is frozen, basically we are waiting for the rc-bugs to reach zero.
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• 118[01:04:49] <anthropohedron> For reference, this is effectively bug 927165
• 119[01:05:01] <somiaj> replaced-url
• 120[01:05:11] <anthropohedron> somiaj: Is the trend on that looking good?
• 121[01:05:56] <somiaj> We are at the hard part, there is 117 left, but they are most likely difficult bugs. At some point the release time will start just removing packages that hvae not been fixed (or finding ways to ignore them).
• 122[01:06:26] <somiaj> I think the guesses is the release should happen this summer, so 1-2 months until the release. Buster will not change much during that time, but it won't have security support until the release.
• 123[01:06:40] <somiaj> so provided you don't actulaly hit one of those rc bugs, buster is basically stable (as in that is what will be released)
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• 125[01:07:33] <somiaj> My point of view. Buster is basically stable, and if you don't mind not having security support, just install it.
• 126[01:08:08] <somiaj> (note there are ways to deal with security issues, espically big things, minor things I wouldn't worry to much about), but if some big security flaw hits, deal with that as it happens.
• 127[01:08:21] <anthropohedron> I'm looking at the list of bugs by package now to see if they'll hit me.
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• 129[01:08:39] <anthropohedron> I just won't expose this machine to the internet until it goes stable.
• 130[01:09:19] <somiaj> debian release team gives about a week annoucment before the release hits.
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• 132[01:09:33] <somiaj> but watching rc bugs can clue you on on when it is getting close.
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• 135[01:10:33] <anthropohedron> Cool. Okay, installing buster is the plan now. Thanks.
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• 139[01:13:43] <CarlFK> anthropohedron: sounds like you are into install stuff - mind trying out our new.. um.. "make an installer" and "install" docs/scripst/all the things: replaced-url
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• 142[01:14:08] <CarlFK> it shouldn't burn more than 5 - 10 min
• 143[01:15:22] <CarlFK> so far the only people that have tested/reviewed it know it so well we can't really read it because we kinda have the process memorized.
• 144[01:16:19] <CarlFK> or my one friend that was bitching that he had to dl/run a script that setup the install, not just dl/burn an image from some questionable dropbox
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• 150[01:20:38] <anthropohedron> CarlFK: I'm the opposite of "into install stuff". I want it to Just Work. I'm clearly willing to track down the issue with my own attempt to install, but I probably do a Debian install less than once a decade.
• 151[01:20:55] <anthropohedron> Sorry
• 152[01:21:11] <anthropohedron> Anyhow, dinner beckons.
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• 154[01:21:26] <CarlFK> damm - sounds like the perfect tester :p
• 155[01:22:29] <annadane> i "tried" the buster rc1 installer, getting halfway through before getting bored and stopping
• 156[01:22:36] <annadane> it's basically exactly the same as stretch's AFAICT
• 157[01:23:32] <jmcnaught> one new feature in the buster installer that I noticed is when you configure LVM it asks if you want to leave some space unallocated on the volume group
• 158[01:24:08] <annadane> (except it has a dark theme now by default and it's prettier)
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• 166[01:30:30] <somebody> Hello. I need help with an unruly badly named file in my Downloads folder.
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• 168[01:30:37] <somebody> Formely in my downloads folder.
• 169[01:31:04] <somebody> I couldn't do anything about it, since it kept saying "file does not exist" due to a bad encoding, or wrong symbols in the name, or something like that.
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• 171[01:31:37] <Tom_-> do you know *any* of the characters in the name, somebody?
• 172[01:32:24] <somebody> I also couldn't remove the offending file, so I got annoyed and removed the entire folder, only keeping the files I needed.
• 173[01:32:24] <somebody> Now, a new problem is that now I can't clear the trash, it keeps saying "Could not delete file /home/somebody/.local/share/Trash/files/Downloads/��३�� �� �....txt"!
• 174[01:32:24] <somebody> This is insanely annoying.
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• 180[01:34:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1454
• 181[01:34:54] <somebody> Ehmm, did my messages show up?
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• 187[01:37:07] <seekr> I did it a long time ago, but have forgotten the procedure, which is a fairly simple one, as I recall.
• 188[01:37:21] <annadane> somebody, they did show up
• 189[01:38:05] <CarlFK> somebody: try mkdir foo; mv *.txt foo
• 190[01:38:41] <CarlFK> if you can get it into a dir by itself, you can likely use tab completion to "fill in" it's name
• 191[01:39:00] <Tom_-> somebody, or cd /home/somebody/.local/share/Trash/files/Downloads/ ; rm -iv *txt
• 192[01:39:14] <Tom_-> but CarlFK's would work too except maybe the . won't work
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• 198[01:41:10] <jmcnaught> seekr: "dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration" and then "service keyboard-setup restart" More details here: replaced-url
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• 200[01:41:39] <seekr> jmcnaught: Thanks much! Will give it a shot.
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• 208[01:44:35] <SZO> The adb packages provided by debian aren't working as expected
• 209[01:44:51] <SZO> adb & android-tools-adb do not function properly
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• 214[01:48:02] <somebody> Tom_-, This was a little tedious, but it managed to remove everything, thanks!
• 215[01:48:33] <Tom_-> probably rm * would have been fine in your Trash directory, heh sorry
• 216[01:48:41] <somebody> CarlFK, I think I essentially already did this by moving everything else out. :P
• 217[01:49:00] <Tom_-> yes more
• 218[01:49:25] <somebody> It's OK, a lot of people keep their important files in the trash.
• 219[01:50:08] <somebody> Thanks everyone, and good night.
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• 264[02:41:19] <seekr> jmcnaught: I must have used some other method to switch the keyboard in the past. The Etch distro upon which the LVM tutorial is based doesn't recognise the dpkg-reconfigure command. I'm rummaging through old #debian logs (going back to 2013, when I discovered the tutorial and began playing with it) and looking for notes I might have made at the time. Do you have any other suggestions?
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• 267[02:42:00] <seekr> jmcnaught: The tutorial was done in 2007, I think - more than a decade ago.
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• 271[02:43:27] <seekr> jmcnaught: It took me a long time to find the hyphen key (turns out to be on the "/" key), the letters "y" and "z" are switched with one another - very strange keyboard layout - I wish I could remember how I did it before.
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• 275[02:44:51] <jmcnaught> seekr: I like the RHEL LVM Administrator Guide, some of it is Red Hat specific but most of it transfers over
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• 277[02:44:55] <jmcnaught> replaced-url
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• 283[02:45:55] <jmcnaught> seekr: if you've already got something set up for virtualization, then do a simple install of stretch or buster, and then give the VM a couple of extra virtual drives to use as physical volumes, they don't need to be very large
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• 289[02:49:54] <seekr> jmcnaught: Thanks - I'll explore that option also.
• 290[02:51:19] <jmcnaught> seekr: the debian-installer will configure LVM for you, and the buster installer asks if you want to leave some space unallocated so that you can create more logical volumes, snapshots etc later
• 291[02:51:59] <seekr> jmcnaught: gotcha
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• 294[02:53:23] <wondiws> can you still compile code using Qt3 with sid?
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• 304[03:06:15] <ksk> looking at google, it seems to me there is Qt4 since 2005. eh...
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• 310[03:12:30] <themill> wondiws: no, Qt3 was removed from Debian a long time ago
• 311[03:12:42] <themill> (we're currently trying to get rid of Qt4)
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• 313[03:13:18] <Unit193> Barely didn't happen in Buster, IIRC the openssl support was disabled?
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• 319[03:18:52] <ksk> Unit193: mhm?
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• 328[03:22:09] <annadane> actually speaking of openssl (this is totally unrelated to the discussion) i notice the stretch installer installs "libressl"
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• 330[03:22:21] <annadane> i've searched the web for this half heartedly and didn't find much
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• 335[03:25:50] <dax> are you sure? as far as i knew, libressl isn't packaged for debian
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• 339[03:26:25] <laptop> hi why does kernel 5.1 not support nvidia cards
• 340[03:26:28] <laptop> I have a legacy 304 card
• 341[03:26:39] <laptop> it works fine in 4.19 but not in 5.1 or 5.2 and nouveau sucks
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• 343[03:26:50] <dax> annadane: (perhaps you're misreading libssl, which is openssl?)
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• 345[03:27:03] <annadane> it's possible
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• 347[03:27:24] <vipasar> Hello
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• 349[03:27:37] <themill> laptop: you'd ask nvidia about that. Chasing new things with what they consider to be old hardware seldom works.
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• 351[03:27:54] <laptop> hmmm
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• 353[03:28:09] <laptop> is there anyway to roll my own kernel
• 354[03:28:17] <laptop> with the nvidia
• 355[03:28:20] <laptop> from kernel 5.2
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• 361[03:29:14] <annadane> the disadvantage of proprietary hardware is sometimes that old devices stop getting supported, among other disadvantages, hence some people will dump nvidia in favor of intel or AMD...
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• 364[03:29:50] <bleb> wheezy laptop
• 365[03:29:57] <laptop> stretch works
• 366[03:29:58] <bleb> sleeps on lid close, wakes on lid open
• 367[03:30:06] <bleb> but i want to run a script when it opens
• 368[03:30:18] <Unit193> annadane: Related bug, #754513
• 369[03:30:19] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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• 371[03:30:47] <bleb> i tried writing a script for /etc/pm/sleep.d, but it is not run because the laptop close sleep isn't actually a pm-suspend event
• 372[03:31:08] <bleb> anyone know what could be done to run a command when the lid opens
• 373[03:31:14] <annadane> AFAIK on void - which uses libressl - it still shows up as openssl - so the naming convention may be a bit screwy
• 374[03:31:42] <laptop> I really wish nvidia would work with linux
• 375[03:31:49] <laptop> or wish that nouveau would get better
• 376[03:31:49] * annadane wonders if gentoo has separate openssl and libressl packages
• 377[03:32:21] <laptop> join #ubuntu
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• 398[03:49:35] <m4ch1n3znc> nvidia works on linux better then on windows in my opinion, especially laptop prime nvidia/intel chimäre gpus
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• 401[03:51:04] <m4ch1n3znc> x server on nvidia gpu with prime synchronisation doubles framerate in glx applications compared to windows gpu ofloading support only
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• 403[03:51:48] <m4ch1n3znc> and eliminates tearing althought nvidia gpu is not directly connected to displayport
• 404[03:53:38] <m4ch1n3znc> + windows nvidia driver installer is over 400mb, tons of useless crap included
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• 406[03:54:39] <Krennic> lol
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• 412[04:14:41] <ksk> just out of curiosity, how about the power saving-foo? Does it work? (I heard bad stuff about CPUs in laptops for example)
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• 418[04:19:06] <guest__> can anyone tell me how to set the base font for the xserver?
• 419[04:19:36] <guest__> debian 9.8 ^
• 420[04:20:13] <guest__> the size is so small that i cant see anything on the gui. i am an old console hand though.
• 421[04:20:21] <ksk> guest__: if you question is rather "how do I make the font look different in $desktop I am using" - there should be a setting somewhere ;)
• 422[04:20:48] <ksk> "appearance" in XFCE, last time I checked (might be a while..)
• 423[04:21:02] <guest__> ksk but one would have to be able to see what they were doing to set it from inside
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• 425[04:22:20] <Unit193> One would also have to set the font in xfwm's settings for the window borders.
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• 427[04:22:40] <guest__> correct
• 428[04:22:44] <annadane> just fyi 9.9 is out now :P
• 429[04:23:20] <guest__> annadane: yeah. i know. i have 9.8 i don't have the bandwidth to keep dl'ing dvd/s
• 430[04:24:53] <ksk> guest__: you just need to dist-upgrade to upgrade to the new release
• 431[04:25:36] <guest__> anyway with my moniter gfx card combo the default is 1024x768 rez (also largest that vesa will access) and all fonts on the desktop and login greeter are exactly three pixals tall.
• 432[04:26:08] <guest__> ksk i have several boxes and not all are inet accessable.
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• 434[04:26:46] * guest__ knows about apt update ;apt dist-upgrade
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• 496[05:37:22] <aypea[1]> has anyone else experience a black screen when trying to install buster rc1 in text mode under a qemu guest?
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• 499[05:39:31] <jmcnaught> aypea[1]: I haven't, but are you able to switch ttys with alt+f2, alt+f3 etc?
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• 501[05:40:10] <aypea[1]> nope. no change.
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• 503[05:42:47] <jmcnaught> aypea[1]: there's a newer weekly build of netinst here that you could try: replaced-url
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• 505[05:43:12] <aypea[1]> turning off fb and setting vga to normal makes it work
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• 509[05:45:01] <aypea[1]> i'll give the weekly a go
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• 516[05:48:15] <aypea[1]> weekly has the same issue. oh well
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• 561[06:40:28] <antony_kariu> /help -l
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• 638[08:15:20] <Optimus_Prime> hello
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• 648[08:23:38] <sgb77> Hi, just finished upgrading from wheezy to jessie, I am having issues with my gui
• 649[08:23:45] <sgb77> can someone help?
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• 665[08:31:21] <sgb77> anybody?
• 666[08:32:17] <inch> Keepg upgrading and go to stretch and perhaps buster.
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• 669[08:32:58] <inch> !anybody
• 670[08:32:59] <dpkg> Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. (If the real question _was_ "does anyone use 'some_program'?" ask me about <popcon> instead.) See <ask> <ask to ask> <polls> <search> <sicco> <smart questions>.
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• 673[08:34:29] <sgb77> me-settings-daemon:3883): Gdk-WARNING **: gnome-settings-daemon: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :0.
• 674[08:34:42] <sgb77> these are the errors from my xorg logs
• 675[08:34:55] <sgb77> not sure hot to trouble shoot it
• 676[08:35:03] <sgb77> I have reinstalled gnome
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• 680[08:38:02] <jim> (is it still true as late as stretch?) I was told some years ago that you need certain packages on a laptop to make hibernate work... also, what are those packages?
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• 689[08:42:21] <inch> I've been using suspend to ram by just "echo mem >/sys/power/state". And on some computers echo disk works too.
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• 693[08:43:16] <inch> There is a pm-utils pacakge, that has pm-* commands.
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• 695[08:43:52] <jim> good to know
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• 699[08:44:34] <jmcnaught> systemd handles suspend and hibernate now, you can do both with systemctl
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• 701[08:46:04] <m4ch1n3znc> systemd handles everything T_T
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• 703[08:46:59] <m4ch1n3znc> i wish debian would provide official remove-systemd apt task
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• 705[08:47:15] <m4ch1n3znc> or systemd-free debian task
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• 708[08:48:46] <jmcnaught> !stretch sysvinit
• 709[08:48:46] <dpkg> To replace systemd with sysvinit in stretch, simply "apt-get install sysvinit-core" and reboot. To switch from systemd to runit in buster or sid, "apt-get install runit-systemd", reboot, "apt-get install runit-init", and reboot again.
• 710[08:50:20] <m4ch1n3znc> jmcnaught i did that on buster, and tons of stuff that has no systemd dependencies was broken, from python-selenium to pulseaudio
• 711[08:50:42] <jmcnaught> oh well, systemd is the future might as well learn it
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• 713[08:52:07] <m4ch1n3znc> the more i learn about it the more i dont like it :D
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• 727[08:58:45] <m4ch1n3znc> replaced-url
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• 747[09:20:03] <jim> cute.
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• 804[09:40:47] <bendem> how would I go about getting some changes in for a package where the maintainer is unresponsive
• 805[09:41:08] <bendem> this one specifically replaced-url
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• 824[10:00:28] <tinyhippo> bendem: libs3 to be updated to which version?
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• 827[10:02:00] <bendem> tinyhippo, latest, which is 4.1 right now
• 828[10:03:07] <tinyhippo> bendem: I doubt that would happen, as the current version of libs3 will probably be a dependency of lots of other packages. Upgrading that one package may cause issues for many others.
• 829[10:03:36] <tinyhippo> iirc Debian puts a version freeze on packages in a stable release, so they wont be upgraded, but bugs and security patches will be backported
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• 831[10:04:12] <tinyhippo> your best best would be to either build it from source, or build yourselfa package from the latest upstream and host it somewhere like packagecloud
• 832[10:04:16] <tinyhippo> best bet*
• 833[10:04:20] <bendem> so? debian currently has libs3-2, a c program in active development, no changes in debian in 7 years, trust me, security patches are not being backported...
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• 835[10:04:27] <bendem> libs3-4 would work just fine
• 836[10:05:28] <bendem> am trying to find reverse dependencies, but I can never remember the command
• 837[10:07:57] <bendem> can't find anything in debian that depends on libs3's current version
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• 842[10:12:40] <bendem> anyway, that's not what I asked. Is there a procedure to follow in case of unresponsive maintainer?
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• 887[10:42:31] <rant> !rdepends
• 888[10:42:31] <dpkg> i heard rdepends is apt-cache rdepends foo; shows you what depends on foo
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• 890[10:42:56] <rant> ,i apt-rdepends
• 891[10:42:57] <judd> Package apt-rdepends (utils, optional) in stretch/amd64: recursively lists package dependencies. Version: 1.3.0-6; Size: 14.3k; Installed: 40k; Homepage: replaced-url
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• 907[10:57:02] <rant> baba_m
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• 910[10:58:58] <rant> bendem: appsrently no one is interested in this but you.. upstteam source is debianized.. consider the new maintainers guide, and addressing the issue yourself
• 911[10:59:32] <rant> !new maintainer
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• 913[11:00:17] <rant> !nm
• 914[11:00:17] <dpkg> New Member (formerly New Maintainer) is the process through which new Debian developers are accepted into the project; see replaced-url
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• 916[11:00:36] <rant> !nmg
• 917[11:00:37] <dpkg> The packaging tutorial (replaced-url
• 918[11:01:01] <rant> !mentors
• 919[11:01:01] <dpkg> well, mentors is the system the Debian project uses to train new people to become Debian Developers or Debian Maintainers and get their packages into the Debian archive. Ask me about <nmg>. replaced-url
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• 925[11:05:53] <jelly> bendem: there are different procedures, based on how unresponsive a maintainer is. Working on other packages and ignoring one does not count as unresponsive, for example
• 926[11:06:17] <jelly> so this might not apply:
• 927[11:06:19] <jelly> !mia
• 928[11:06:19] <dpkg> from memory, mia is missing in action. status of missing unknown. as opposed to KIA, POW, or AWOL. replaced-url
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• 995[12:00:21] <plantroon> with rssh being unmaintained and dropped from Debian, which restricted shell would you recommend?
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• 1033[12:35:14] <strk> is "apt-get" any differetn from "apt" as of jessie ? (because jessie->stretch info reported by "dpkg" recommends "apt-get"...)
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• 1035[12:38:40] <strk> After this operation, 697 MB of additional disk space will be used.
• 1036[12:38:49] <strk> Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
• 1037[12:38:50] <strk> /dev/root 20G 18G 175M 100% /
• 1038[12:39:24] <strk> can't do that, right ? or will "additional sisk space" possibly got under /home ?
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• 1041[12:40:46] <aypea[1]> strk: you can squeeze it in, maybe, if you tune2fs -m0 /dev/root
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• 1049[12:44:00] <strk> maybe I should find out what to throw away
• 1050[12:44:20] <strk> as 18G used seems to be a lot ?
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• 1052[12:44:45] <strk> like, 3.5G taken by /usr/src I could move away
• 1053[12:45:05] <strk> oh, those are already elsewhere :/
• 1054[12:45:18] <strk> I bet there's docker hiding somewhere
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• 1077[12:54:41] <sentriz> do you have docker isntalled?
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• 1080[12:55:13] <sentriz> `docker system prune` gave me like 35gbs one time
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• 1086[12:58:43] <BCMM> strk: apt is slightly easier to use for basic operations, but it's as feature-complete as apt-get
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• 1089[13:00:12] <BCMM> it's also explicitly a less stable interface than apt-get; i.e. "don't use it in scripts". so it's basically a simplified frontend for human users.
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• 1093[13:02:09] <tsujp> Is there a utility I can see network usage on per process like htop? I want to see the down/up speeds a process is using
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• 1095[13:02:25] <Oot2pi> nethog I think
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• 1104[13:08:18] <tsujp> Ah that's nice, good stuff
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• 1108[13:09:00] <tsujp> Building on this, anyone know how to show a specific dockers containers network speed in realtime? docker stats lists total transfer but I want kbs etc
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• 1277[15:17:47] <jak2000> how to copy files from 1 directory1 to directory2, but only files that not exist on directory2 ?
• 1278[15:18:18] <greycat> How is what you want different from just rsyncing them?
• 1279[15:18:58] <jak2000> but rsyng what happend if in directory1 have a file named x.txt and in directory2 exist too but with different text?
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• 1281[15:19:17] <greycat> what do YOU want?
• 1282[15:19:26] <jak2000> not replace x.txt
• 1283[15:19:28] <jak2000> ignore
• 1284[15:19:30] <satanist> jak2000: look at the -n or -i option of cp
• 1285[15:19:41] <greycat> --ignore-existing skip updating files that exist on receiver
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• 1287[15:20:18] <jak2000> ok thanks
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• 1292[15:22:06] <pragomer> anyone knows how to read a multisession burned dvds (think it comes from windows) under debian)? mount tells me about a false superblock / bad filesystem
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• 1294[15:24:40] <kanliot> pragomer, i don't know, but there are last ditch things you can try
• 1295[15:25:13] <pragomer> sorry about my not too good english, but what do you mean by "last ditch things" =?
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• 1298[15:26:02] <kanliot> Without rock ridge extensions on the multisession CD, most linux distros won't be able to read the multisession info.
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• 1313[15:32:04] <Greyztar> hello anyone have experience running lxc/lxd on Debian? Is it much work getting a running configuration sort of stable or is it experimental?
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• 1315[15:33:29] <jelly> ,v lxd
• 1316[15:33:29] <judd> No package named 'lxd' was found in amd64.
• 1317[15:33:40] <jelly> sounds rather experimental
• 1318[15:33:56] <jelly> if you want lxd, go with latest ubuntu lts
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• 1320[15:34:17] <jelly> right tool for the job and all that
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• 1324[15:35:07] <Greyztar> yeah just ive grown found of Debian now aswell hehe thanks jelly
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• 1331[15:39:19] <laptop> hello I tried to ask this question yesterday but may have not asked it in the right way nvidia is not supported in kernel 5.1 or 5.2 however I am wondering can I role my own kernel from 5.1 or 5.2 and add the nvidia driver to the kernel is that possible or is it possible to edit the kernel somehow
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• 1340[15:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1493
• 1341[15:44:11] <petn-randall> laptop: nvidia controls against which kernel the module compiles. You'll have to ask them if it doesn't work with 5.1 or 5.2.
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• 1343[15:45:08] <laptop> so in other words it cannot happen without nvidia saying so
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• 1346[15:48:38] <somiaj> One often has to wait for nvidia to 'catch up' if you wan to run a bleeding edge kenel + nvidia nonfree blob.
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• 1348[15:48:56] <greycat> ,kernels
• 1349[15:48:57] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 5.0.0-trunk-686-pae (5.0.2-1~exp1); sid: 4.19.0-5-686-pae (4.19.37-3); buster: 4.19.0-5-686-pae (4.19.37-3); stretch-backports: 4.19.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (4.19.28-2~bpo9+1); stretch: 4.9.0-9-686 (4.9.168-1+deb9u2); jessie-backports: 4.9.0-0.bpo.6-686-pae (4.9.88-1+deb9u1~bpo8+1); jessie: 4.9.0-0.bpo.9-686-pae (4.9.168-1+deb9u2~deb8u1); wheezy-
• 1350[15:48:58] <judd> backports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.39-1+deb8u1~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-6-686-pae (3.2.102-1)
• 1351[15:49:11] <greycat> even experimental hasn't got a 5.0.1 yet
• 1352[15:49:16] <somiaj> as kernel api/abi changes, the non-free blob needs to change in respect, and nvidia takes a bit of time to do this.
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• 1354[15:49:30] <jelly> no. it's got 5.0.2
• 1355[15:49:41] <jelly> and that 5.0.2 is not terribly stable
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• 1357[15:49:53] <jelly> do not recommend
• 1358[15:50:09] <laptop> 4.9 is faster than 4.19?
• 1359[15:50:10] <greycat> sorry, I meant "hasn't got a 5.1 yet"
• 1360[15:50:24] <jelly> laptop: not necessarily. Try It And See.
• 1361[15:50:38] <jelly> also, make-linux-fast-again.com
• 1362[15:50:45] <greycat> wut
• 1363[15:51:16] <jelly> shows boot parameters that disable all security things
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• 1374[15:54:24] <laptop> noibrs noibpb nopti nospectre_v2 nospectre_v1 l1tf=off nospec_store_bypass_disable no_stf_barrier mds=off mitigations=off
• 1375[15:54:32] <laptop> that is all the website says
• 1376[15:54:45] <jelly> yes. Those are linux kernel boot params.
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• 1378[15:54:49] <somiaj> it is as jelly said, a list of boot flags to disable security things that slow stuff down.
• 1379[15:55:12] <jelly> and it is silly, because the last one is supposed to do it all
• 1380[15:55:14] <laptop> but makes kernel less secure?
• 1381[15:55:18] <jelly> yes
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• 1387[15:56:23] <greycat> In the last couple years, many flaws have been found in modern CPUs, and the kernel has mitigations in place to work around those hardware flaws, which has a performance cost.
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• 1389[15:56:49] <somiaj> basically cpus were cheating to make things faster, and now osses need to slow down to work around that.
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• 1392[15:57:08] <greycat> that might be a misleading oversimplification
• 1393[15:57:59] <jelly> my "yes" was an oversimplification as well.
• 1394[15:58:30] <jelly> some of the kernel mitigations make both kernel and userspace more resilient, not just the kernel
• 1395[15:58:39] <greycat> some of the tricks that CPUs are using to speed up programs are leaving information lying around in caches, and there are exploits to read some of that information
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• 1398[16:00:11] <laptop> I have amd processor so do I even need those mitigations
• 1399[16:00:20] <jelly> you still need some of those yes
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• 1401[16:00:26] <greycat> depends on which processor
• 1402[16:00:28] <jelly> not all, but not none either
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• 1404[16:01:09] <oiaohm> greycat: its not just laying around in caches. Some of the faults have been highly creative bugs.
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• 1416[16:03:14] <oiaohm> laptop: you do have to consider the different bugs. Some are exploitable by like running javascript in a webbrowser replaced-url
• 1417[16:03:40] <laptop> I see i will just stick with my old kernal
• 1418[16:03:45] <laptop> kernel
• 1419[16:03:55] <oiaohm> laptop: so running without mitigations does gain speed but it does add some extra risks.
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• 1424[16:04:17] <greycat> buster uses a 4.19 kernel. I wouldn't call it "old".
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• 1427[16:04:34] <greycat> it's also available in stretch-backports, though that may lag behind in security patches
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• 1429[16:05:33] <laptop> what are min req for buster and is it now fully released
• 1430[16:05:40] <laptop> is buster faster
• 1431[16:05:58] <greycat> It's not released yet.
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• 1433[16:06:08] <laptop> release date adn min req?
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• 1435[16:06:38] <nifker> how can I create a debian package from a ninja-project?
• 1436[16:07:15] <somiaj> it isn't fully released, but replaced-url
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• 1438[16:07:55] <somiaj> replaced-url
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• 1443[16:10:51] <phazon> buster is basically at the 90-90 point: "The first 90 percent of the code accounts for the first 90 percent of the development time. The remaining 10 percent of the code accounts for the other 90 percent of the development time." -- Tom Cargill
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• 1445[16:12:33] <SwedeMike> i that context I recommend replaced-url
• 1446[16:12:43] <phazon> less than 200 or so blocking bugs, but those are the hardest ones to fix. most will probably be addressed, but as time goes on, the corresponding packages might get stripped out of the repo so as to not hold up the release
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• 1449[16:16:17] <somiaj> Its about 120 rc-bugs now, and 30 or so have patches.
• 1450[16:16:45] <somiaj> sometimes the bugs are just ignored if they are deemed a scarifice to ensure software X makes it into buster too.
• 1451[16:16:47] <greycat> !rc bugs
• 1452[16:16:47] <dpkg> Release-Critical bugs are Debian bugs with critical, grave or serious severities, preventing the next release of Debian. See the graph at replaced-url
• 1453[16:17:11] <greycat> 117 on the web page
• 1454[16:17:16] <somiaj> but this kinda depends on the debian release team. They are a bit more proactive about ensure things happen a bit faster than some releases in the past.
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• 1465[16:23:46] <strk> ok, I found out what's taking up all space: docker
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• 1471[16:29:07] <Greyztar> hello sort of basic question i installed snapd and after i installed lxd,it works if i call it from /snap/bin/lxc but how do i make it work by just calling lxc which persist through reboot?
• 1472[16:29:18] *** Quits: eyeofst0rm (~can@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 1473[16:29:37] <greycat> either put /snap/bin into your $PATH or make a symlink from /usr/local/bin/lxc to /snap/bin/lxc
• 1474[16:30:03] <Greyztar> greycat, ill try that, thank you
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• 1490[16:44:14] <Greyztar> so nice i got lxc/lxd working using the snap stuff,can move my work load to Debian then thank you again greycat its all working now :)
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• 1505[16:56:21] <netriber> what different containers are out there different from docker?
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• 1511[16:57:40] <Greyztar> netriber, theres lxc operating system containers
• 1512[16:57:43] <kalipso> hey guys. this question is more about linux in general but i cant join #linux channel somehow.
• 1513[16:57:49] <kalipso> ups, pressed enter to early
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• 1515[16:58:11] <greycat> 10:58 #linux 0 Please see ##linux or other similar channels for Linux support.
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• 1517[16:58:56] <dax> #linux forwards to linux, and linux bans all tor-sasl users
• 1518[16:58:59] <jelly> there is an automatic redirection in place I believe, but they may have tor completely blocked
• 1519[16:59:47] <Greyztar> i asked sometime ago and they gateway banned tor
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• 1523[16:59:58] <jelly> because reasons!
• 1524[17:01:31] <kalipso> eeh.. so.. i have a raid1 containing two luks encrypted partition. so the hierarchy looks like sda->sda1->raid1->crypto->vg_raid-backup and vg_raid-rest. i have to mount them on boot, so my question is how to put that into fstab correctly. because i first have to scan for raids, then encrypt and then mount and dont know how to handle that with fstab
• 1525[17:01:39] <greycat> it's really not hard to come up with a reason to ban tor
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• 1528[17:02:20] <kalipso> greycat: i cant join linux, since iam a tor user and banned there
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• 1530[17:02:38] <somiaj> In theory tor is good in protcing ones privacy, in practice it is used for malicitious attacks and asshats.
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• 1532[17:03:31] <Tenkawa> bbl.. need food
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• 1534[17:03:44] <netriber> Greyztar: does it depend on docker?
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• 1540[17:06:23] <Greyztar> netriber, i im not sure of everything about it i think its using something called conteinerd,maybe google some about it or others could chime in
• 1541[17:06:25] <koollman> netriber: lxc, runc, containerd, and probably a few others. Then non-linux ones, like bsd jails or solaris zones or aix wpar
• 1542[17:06:35] <koollman> netriber: why do you ask ? :)
• 1543[17:07:22] <somiaj> improving on the fact that chroots are terribly insecure.
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• 1545[17:09:03] <koollman> somiaj: compared to some docker bad practices, it's not *that* terrible ;) (but yeah, they lack most levels of separations beside mount and even that is not as good)
• 1546[17:09:42] <tw> can I disable the typing asterisks in cryptsetup on boot? I know how long my password is and don't care about user typing feedback.
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• 1552[17:12:52] <tw> nevermind, it's this: replaced-url
• 1553[17:13:34] <tw> and the systemd way is to make things non-configurable.
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• 1578[17:30:51] <thow> why PATH contains /usr/games and /usr/local/games and how do it get rid of it?
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• 1581[17:31:15] <greycat> Depends on how you login and what shell you use.
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• 1583[17:31:38] <netriber> koollman: because I just know docker
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• 1585[17:32:06] <strk> Errors were encountered while processing: redis-server
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• 1587[17:32:24] <strk> Job for redis-server.service failed. See 'systemctl status redis-server.service' and 'journalctl -xn' for details.
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• 1592[17:34:18] <thow> greycat: i'm using bash. regardless if i log in via console or ssh, i get the "games" directories on the path :(
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• 1600[17:34:55] <ksk> thow: as far as I know every user gets the games path, root does not. has nothing to do with console vs. ssh.
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• 1604[17:35:11] <thow> yeah, but why?
• 1605[17:35:18] <tw> probably /etc/profile
• 1606[17:35:19] <themill> so that you can run them?
• 1607[17:35:21] <thow> no.
• 1608[17:35:22] <ksk> games are nice? :D
• 1609[17:35:29] <themill> (if you don't want them, uninstall them)
• 1610[17:35:33] <thow> there's nothing on /etc adding "games" to the path
• 1611[17:35:37] <greycat> console and ssh both use a login shell and therefore both will use /etc/profile
• 1612[17:35:46] <greycat> you can edit /etc/profile to change that PATH and it'll be fine
• 1613[17:35:46] <themill> thow: well Debian's /etc/profile does.
• 1614[17:35:59] <thow> i'm just trying to find the piece of code/script that adds those directories... to no avail
• 1615[17:36:03] <ksk> thow: normal bash environment setup via /etc/profile, ~/.bashrc etc..
• 1616[17:36:04] <greycat> it is /etc/profile
• 1617[17:36:11] <themill> PATH="/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games"
• 1618[17:36:14] <thow> it's mentiones on pam.d... i removed it as well... and the path is still there.
• 1619[17:36:24] <thow> *mentioned
• 1620[17:36:30] <themill> thow: how are you testing this?
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• 1622[17:36:37] <thow> set | grep PATH
• 1623[17:36:43] <tw> you need to log back in.
• 1624[17:36:53] <thow> i rebooted the machine
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• 1628[17:37:46] <themill> your own dotfiles can also add this if you have configured them to do so
• 1629[17:37:53] <thow> i checked that
• 1630[17:38:19] <thow> none of my profile, bashrc or bash_profile files are adding them
• 1631[17:38:27] <greycat> It is in /etc/profile.
• 1632[17:38:28] <themill> must be the aliens then.
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• 1634[17:38:34] <greycat> I don't know how many times we have to tell you this.
• 1635[17:38:41] <ksk> thow: "grep games /etc/profile"?
• 1636[17:38:43] <thow> "grep games /etc/profile" turns northing
• 1637[17:38:44] <thow> nothing.
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• 1639[17:39:06] <thow> there's nothing on profile/.profile/bashrc/bash.bashrc/bash_profile adding those directories to PATH
• 1640[17:39:06] <greycat> then you aren't using a standard Debian /etc/profile, so you might have to read it line by line and see what it does
• 1641[17:39:08] *** Dragone2 is now known as Dragone2|Away
• 1642[17:39:33] <thow> of course i'm using a standard debian installation
• 1643[17:39:46] <greycat> Your /etc/profile has been modified.
• 1644[17:40:03] <thow> yeah, to delete the games directories and even though, they're still in the path
• 1645[17:40:13] * themill is still curious what problem is being solved
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• 1657[17:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1506
• 1658[17:44:30] <pizzaiolo> just curious, why does debhelper keep changing the channel limit?
• 1659[17:44:45] <greycat> protection against join-floods
• 1660[17:45:00] <pizzaiolo> oh right, makes sense
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• 1665[17:47:03] <thow> uhm
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• 1668[17:48:50] <thow> it seems it's dbus-update-activation-environment the one who's adding /usr/games and /usr/local/games
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• 1671[17:50:10] <dvs> which is a Ubuntu package...
• 1672[17:50:16] *** Joins: OS-37943 (~OS-37943@replaced-ip)
• 1673[17:50:21] <thow> strange. i'm not using ubuntu
• 1674[17:50:24] <thow> i'm using debian stretch
• 1675[17:50:27] *** Parts: OS-37943 (~OS-37943@replaced-ip) ()
• 1676[17:50:57] <tw> iirc it's a service needed to provide dbus-launch that gnome and a bunch of other stuff uses.
• 1677[17:51:11] <tw> so yeah, I totally expect it to be there on deb9.
• 1678[17:51:13] <greycat> is dbus-update-activation-environment a package name, or a file name, or a program name, or ...?
• 1679[17:51:27] <themill> dbus: /usr/bin/dbus-update-activation-environment
• 1680[17:51:35] <jelly> judd: file ... that thing.
• 1681[17:51:36] <judd> (file <pattern> [--arch <amd64>] [--release <stable>] [--regex | --exact]) -- Returns packages that include files matching <pattern> which, by default, is interpreted as a glob (see glob(7)). If --regex is given, the pattern is treated as a extended regex (see regex(7); note not PCRE!). If --exact is given, the exact filename is required. The current stable release and amd64 are searched by default.
• 1682[17:51:52] <thow> how can i remove/disable adding the games directories?
• 1683[17:51:53] * judd slaps jelly
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• 1686[17:52:56] <tw> iirc, it saves whatever environment the process has during x login, then restores that original environment when launching other processes via dbus.
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• 1688[17:53:13] <thow> uhm. interesting
• 1689[17:53:39] <thow> so if i remove that "cache", it will re-create it again with the new one (which doesn't have them), right?
• 1690[17:53:40] <greycat> how did you come to the conclusion that this dbus-thing is what's modifying your PATH?
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• 1692[17:54:28] <thow> a wild guess. i can't find any script/code on the whole filesystem that adds them, so i assumed there must be either the kernel (highly unlikely) or some service.
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• 1696[17:55:18] <greycat> thow: as a test, I modified the non-root PATH assignment in /etc/profile (on buster) and then did "ssh localhost", and my PATH variable does not contain the offending directories.
• 1697[17:55:44] * greycat changes it back
• 1698[17:55:48] <thow> so i did.
• 1699[17:55:49] *** Joins: k3rn3lpan1c (~k3rn3lpan@replaced-ip)
• 1700[17:56:10] <jelly> thow: how does PATH look for a noninteractive ssh session? ssh localhost 'echo $PATH'
• 1701[17:56:11] <tw> I did the same, and I modified login.defs, but I still get it in X sessions (and not in console logins).
• 1702[17:56:29] <thow> i'm within X, yep.
• 1703[17:56:42] <thow> i'm sorry, but i can't shutdown X at the moment :(
• 1704[17:56:45] <greycat> so you didn't check BEFORE running startx?
• 1705[17:57:08] <thow> my debian starts in runlevel5. it goes straight to the wm
• 1706[17:57:09] <greycat> just do Ctrl-Alt-F2 or whatever, and do another console login
• 1707[17:57:19] <greycat> YOU SAID YOU USED CONSOLE AND SSH LOGINS
• 1708[17:57:20] <greycat> YOU LIAR
• 1709[17:57:30] <thow> ?
• 1710[17:57:37] <thow> what's the point of shouting here?
• 1711[17:57:41] <thow> i'm using console.
• 1712[17:57:45] <greycat> 11:34 thow> greycat: i'm using bash. regardless if i log in via console or ssh, i get the "games" directories on the path :(
• 1713[17:58:02] <greycat> *plonk*
• 1714[17:58:03] <jelly> let's cool down with all caps. a terminal emulator within X is not a console
• 1715[17:58:06] <tw> In the context vernacular, console doesn't involve X.
• 1716[17:58:07] <thow> perhaps you should learn what means "console" instead of shouting and insulting peoplpe.
• 1717[17:58:25] <themill> greycat: take a walk around the block, thanks.
• 1718[17:58:54] <thow> console means to be connected directly to the computer via a keyboard and a monitor. it can be a text console, or a graphical console, which is my case.
• 1719[17:59:22] <greycat> If he's actually using Display Manager logins, that changes the *entire* question.
• 1720[17:59:32] <jelly> thow: X is an indirection and if you did not log off and back on to the graphical console, you did not change the session
• 1721[17:59:40] *** Joins: Zvmdyv (~Zvmdyv@replaced-ip)
• 1722[17:59:42] <greycat> he claimed he rebooted.
• 1723[18:00:16] *** Quits: v01t (~v01t@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1724[18:00:18] *** Joins: Newami (~Newami@replaced-ip)
• 1725[18:00:21] <thow> when i'm on a X terminal, the offending dirs are there.
• 1726[18:00:33] *** Joins: v01t (~v01t@replaced-ip)
• 1727[18:00:37] <thow> if i switch to a vt (text, out of xorg), they're not there.
• 1728[18:00:44] *** Quits: thefatma (~thefatma@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 1729[18:00:53] *** Joins: duckie (~duckie@replaced-ip)
• 1730[18:00:57] <thow> so -definitely- it's added upon calling xorg
• 1731[18:01:01] <jelly> thow: that means the editiing works. You have to log out of X to make changes apply there.
• 1732[18:01:14] *** Quits: BlueByte (~walther@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
• 1733[18:01:34] <thow> yeah, i rebooted the machine several times.
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• 1735[18:01:55] *** Joins: polman (~ananevtem@replaced-ip)
• 1736[18:02:29] <thow> the only thing that makes sense is what tw said: some process (dbus?) is restoring the environment from a stored kind of cache.
• 1737[18:02:40] <jelly> thow: can you create a fresh new user, log out (or reboot) and log in with new user and see what PATH is set to there?
• 1738[18:03:16] <thow> that's a great idea. i can't try it right now (i'm running other apps i need at the moment), but i'll definitely try that.
• 1739[18:03:16] *** Quits: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 1740[18:03:47] <thow> uhm
• 1741[18:03:48] <thow> write(2, "dbus-update-activation-environme"..., 36dbus-update-activation-environment: ) = 36
• 1742[18:03:51] <thow> write(2, "setting PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr"..., 69setting PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games) = 69
• 1743[18:03:53] <jelly> your display manager may or may not support multiple simultaneous logins to X
• 1744[18:03:54] <thow> write(2, "\n", 1
• 1745[18:04:08] *** Joins: NeonGreenX20 (~matt@replaced-ip)
• 1746[18:04:18] <thow> i'm using lightdm who launches awesomewm.
• 1747[18:04:26] <thow> yes, lightdm allows multiseat.
• 1748[18:04:49] <jelly> that's a strace of what?
• 1749[18:05:02] <thow> strace dbus-update-activation-environment --all --verbose
• 1750[18:05:27] <thow> now i'm trying to find out where dbus-update-blahblah is getting those directories from
• 1751[18:05:40] <tw> thow: you just wrote it.
• 1752[18:05:57] <tw> that command reads your current environment and saves it to dbus-daemon.
• 1753[18:05:59] *** Joins: nifseg (~nif@replaced-ip)
• 1754[18:06:02] <thow> i thought strace would show some open('magical-file-that-contains-it') and read from it, but i don't see it.
• 1755[18:06:10] <jelly> add a -f if you haven't
• 1756[18:06:18] <thow> yeah, but where is it reading it from?
• 1757[18:06:29] <tw> environment variables that are currently active when you call the command.
• 1758[18:06:39] <thow> ?
• 1759[18:06:39] <themill> dbus-update-activation-environment does the opposite to what you are claiming
• 1760[18:06:43] <duckie> hi
• 1761[18:06:47] *** Joins: BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip)
• 1762[18:07:21] *** Quits: nifseg (~nif@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 1763[18:07:45] <thow> yes, you're right. i was following the wrong lead :D
• 1764[18:07:56] *** Joins: justthedoctor (uid180843@replaced-ip)
• 1765[18:08:03] *** Joins: nifseg (~nif@replaced-ip)
• 1766[18:08:58] *** Quits: jmarsac (~jmarsac@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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• 1769[18:10:43] *** Joins: nt80 (~nt80@replaced-ip)
• 1770[18:10:51] <duckie> hi
• 1771[18:11:53] *** Quits: sk_tandt (~sk_tandt@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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• 1774[18:12:07] *** Joins: syarafana (~syarafana@replaced-ip)
• 1775[18:12:13] *** Joins: zaidun (~zaidun@replaced-ip)
• 1776[18:12:30] <syarafana> Hey, I am vandemar and I represent the #nginx community as its leader
• 1777[18:12:30] <syarafana> I would like to notify all NGINX users to urgently update to Apache or any other software,
• 1778[18:12:30] <syarafana> because Sysoev declared the end of project. He asked us, #nginx staff, to spread this message
• 1779[18:12:30] <syarafana> across all the open source software community, including this channel. Thank you for your attention! i.imgur.com/DBHC69t.jpg
• 1780[18:12:30] <syarafana> /JOIN #nginx for more information, p.s. this is a mass advertisement so PM me directly by typing /msg vandemar I NEED MORE INFO
• 1781[18:12:30] *** Quits: syarafana (~syarafana@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 1782[18:12:30] <zaidun> Hey, I am vandemar and I represent the #nginx community as its leader
• 1783[18:12:30] <zaidun> I would like to notify all NGINX users to urgently update to Apache or any other software,
• 1784[18:12:30] <zaidun> because Sysoev declared the end of project. He asked us, #nginx staff, to spread this message
• 1785[18:12:30] <zaidun> across all the open source software community, including this channel. Thank you for your attention! i.imgur.com/DBHC69t.jpg
• 1786[18:12:30] <zaidun> /JOIN #nginx for more information, p.s. this is a mass advertisement so PM me directly by typing /msg vandemar I NEED MORE INFO
• 1787[18:12:31] *** Quits: zaidun (~zaidun@replaced-ip) (Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)))
• 1788[18:12:32] <berrizbeitia> Hey, I am vandemar and I represent the #nginx community as its leader
• 1789[18:12:32] <berrizbeitia> I would like to notify all NGINX users to urgently update to Apache or any other software,
• 1790[18:12:32] <berrizbeitia> because Sysoev declared the end of project. He asked us, #nginx staff, to spread this message
• 1791[18:12:32] <berrizbeitia> across all the open source software community, including this channel. Thank you for your attention! i.imgur.com/DBHC69t.jpg
• 1792[18:12:32] <berrizbeitia> /JOIN #nginx for more information, p.s. this is a mass advertisement so PM me directly by typing /msg vandemar I NEED MORE INFO
• 1793[18:12:32] *** Quits: berrizbeitia (~berrizbei@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1794[18:13:03] *** Joins: p2hc (~p2hc@replaced-ip)
• 1795[18:14:32] <thow> omg.
• 1796[18:14:54] *** Joins: thefatma (~thefatma@replaced-ip)
• 1797[18:14:55] *** Quits: thelastjedi (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 1798[18:15:14] <nerditup> Wow.
• 1799[18:15:18] *** Joins: edgardoweb (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 1800[18:15:18] *** Quits: factor (~factor@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 1801[18:15:26] *** Joins: zalt (~lambda443@replaced-ip)
• 1802[18:15:27] <nerditup> I definitely need more info...
• 1803[18:15:55] <m4ch1n3znc> /JOIN #nginx for more info :D
• 1804[18:16:03] <annadane> do not respond to the trolls/spammers, just ignore and move on
• 1805[18:16:04] *** Quits: p2hc (~p2hc@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 1806[18:16:49] <thow> yep. don't feed the trolls xD
• 1807[18:17:03] *** Joins: dastier (~dastier@replaced-ip)
• 1808[18:17:44] <edgardoweb> hi
• 1809[18:17:44] *** Joins: chiassino (~chiassino@replaced-ip)
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• 1811[18:17:55] *** Joins: belanger (~belanger@replaced-ip)
• 1812[18:17:56] <chiassino> Hey, I am vandemar and I represent the #nginx community as its leader
• 1813[18:17:56] <chiassino> I would like to notify all NGINX users to urgently update to Apache or any other software,
• 1814[18:17:56] <chiassino> because Sysoev declared the end of project. He asked us, #nginx staff, to spread this message
• 1815[18:17:56] <chiassino> across all the open source software community, including this channel. Thank you for your attention!
• 1816[18:17:56] <chiassino> /JOIN #nginx for more information, p.s. this is a mass advertisement so PM me directly by typing /msg vandemar I NEED MORE INFO
• 1817[18:17:56] *** Quits: chiassino (~chiassino@replaced-ip) (Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)))
• 1818[18:18:01] *** Quits: Musk_Nakamoto (~elonsatos@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 1819[18:18:03] *** Joins: yoffe (~yoffe@replaced-ip)
• 1820[18:18:06] <enyeart> Hey, I am vandemar and I represent the #nginx community as its leader
• 1821[18:18:06] <enyeart> I would like to notify all NGINX users to urgently update to Apache or any other software,
• 1822[18:18:06] <enyeart> because Sysoev declared the end of project. He asked us, #nginx staff, to spread this message
• 1823[18:18:06] <enyeart> across all the open source software community, including this channel. Thank you for your attention!
• 1824[18:18:06] <enyeart> /JOIN #nginx for more information, p.s. this is a mass advertisement so PM me directly by typing /msg vandemar I NEED MORE INFO
• 1825[18:18:06] *** Quits: enyeart (~enyeart@replaced-ip) (Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)))
• 1826[18:18:11] <belanger> Hey, I am vandemar and I represent the #nginx community as its leader
• 1827[18:18:11] <belanger> I would like to notify all NGINX users to urgently update to Apache or any other software,
• 1828[18:18:11] <belanger> because Sysoev declared the end of project. He asked us, #nginx staff, to spread this message
• 1829[18:18:11] <belanger> across all the open source software community, including this channel. Thank you for your attention!
• 1830[18:18:11] <belanger> /JOIN #nginx for more information, p.s. this is a mass advertisement so PM me directly by typing /msg vandemar I NEED MORE INFO
• 1831[18:18:11] *** Quits: belanger (~belanger@replaced-ip) (Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)))
• 1832[18:18:13] *** Quits: banisterfiend (~textual@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 1833[18:18:28] <yoffe> Hey, I am vandemar and I represent the #nginx community as its leader
• 1834[18:18:28] <yoffe> I would like to notify all NGINX users to urgently update to Apache or any other software,
• 1835[18:18:28] <yoffe> because Sysoev declared the end of project. He asked us, #nginx staff, to spread this message
• 1836[18:18:28] <yoffe> across all the open source software community, including this channel. Thank you for your attention!
• 1837[18:18:28] <yoffe> /JOIN #nginx for more information, p.s. this is a mass advertisement so PM me directly by typing /msg vandemar I NEED MORE INFO
• 1838[18:18:29] *** Quits: yoffe (~yoffe@replaced-ip) (Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)))
• 1839[18:18:54] <thow> :(
• 1840[18:18:54] <tw> thow: strings /usr/sbin/lightdm | grep -F usr/games
• 1841[18:18:58] <tw> thanks lightdm
• 1842[18:18:59] <m4ch1n3znc> im to slow to send ctcp version
• 1843[18:19:20] <m4ch1n3znc> curious if its always same
• 1844[18:19:26] <thow> tw: amazing
• 1845[18:20:06] <thow> i can't believe it's hardcoded
• 1846[18:20:08] *** Joins: Zcom (~user@replaced-ip)
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• 1848[18:21:18] <m4ch1n3znc> why not, default values
• 1849[18:21:43] <tw> thow: it's default in ssh as well, but it's reset by profile during login.
• 1850[18:22:16] <tw> thow: anyway, what you need to do is update the PATH env variable in your xsession startup before 25*dbusactivationthingy
• 1851[18:22:18] *** Quits: zamuro (~Samantha@replaced-ip) (Quit: [IRSSI])
• 1852[18:22:23] *** Quits: citypw (~citypw@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 1853[18:22:49] <thow> it's already updated. PATH env variable doesn't contain those directories
• 1854[18:23:20] <tw> I mean you have to actually set it using some script in Xsession.d. To something else.
• 1855[18:23:32] *** Quits: Namber (~luca@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 1856[18:23:51] <m4ch1n3znc> there are many ways to manipulate them
• 1857[18:24:15] <m4ch1n3znc> PATH=$PATH:/foo/bar in ~/.bashrc
• 1858[18:24:34] *** Joins: Gugi (~Gugi@replaced-ip)
• 1859[18:24:38] <m4ch1n3znc> as enviroment variable at execution
• 1860[18:24:41] <tw> needs to be done before dbus-update-activation-environment call in xsession init. We've actually been over that.
• 1861[18:24:50] <thow> sorry, don't get it.
• 1862[18:25:12] <thow> before X, there is a PATH variable that does not contain /usr/games.
• 1863[18:25:35] *** Quits: HarveyPwca (~HarveyPwc@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1864[18:25:36] <thow> once X is started, PATH includes it.
• 1865[18:25:59] *** Joins: HarveyPwca (~HarveyPwc@replaced-ip)
• 1866[18:26:04] <m4ch1n3znc> xinitrc ?
• 1867[18:26:15] <thow> nope. already checked that.
• 1868[18:26:54] <m4ch1n3znc> you want remove games from it?
• 1869[18:26:56] *** Quits: sysvalve (~sysvalve@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 1870[18:26:57] <thow> yep.
• 1871[18:27:11] *** Quits: dreamon_ (~dreamon@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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• 1874[18:29:23] *** Joins: systemdave (dmonschein@replaced-ip)
• 1875[18:29:41] <tw> echo "export PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin" > /etc/X11/Xsession.d/01initial-path
• 1876[18:30:02] <tw> probably break a bunch of stuff, but you can delete it if it does.
• 1877[18:30:49] *** Quits: systemdave (dmonschein@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 1878[18:30:53] <thow> uhm.
• 1879[18:31:14] *** Quits: baptist (~baptist@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving.)
• 1880[18:31:16] <thow> it's on /proc/pid-of-lightdm/environ
• 1881[18:31:24] <tw> doesn't matter.
• 1882[18:31:35] *** Joins: ch0wn_ (~tmp@replaced-ip)
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• 1884[18:31:47] <thow> when lightdm is launched, it's already included in the path.
• 1885[18:32:12] *** Joins: systemdave (dmonschein@replaced-ip)
• 1886[18:32:20] <tw> Or lightdm updates its own environment.
• 1887[18:32:58] <thow> ok. i
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• 1892[18:34:21] <jelly> [18:33] ~ => dpkg -L lightdm|xargs grep usr/games 2> /dev/null
• 1893[18:34:21] <jelly> Binary file /usr/sbin/lightdm matches
• 1894[18:34:31] <Ede|Popede> echo $PATH | sed -e 's#[^:\w]*/gamesg; s#:*$' <-- can't get the optional colon to work in the 1st command, but it seems to work
• 1895[18:34:39] <jelly> use a different DM?
• 1896[18:34:42] <thow> jelly: that's what annoys me... it looks it's hardcoded
• 1897[18:34:42] *** Quits: duckie (~duckie@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1898[18:34:45] <tw> jelly: same trick openssh-server
• 1899[18:34:51] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip) ("vergissmeinnicht")
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• 1902[18:35:18] <tw> defaults are fine. It just needs to get updated by session init scripts and that doesn't seem to be happening.
• 1903[18:35:22] <jelly> they have to get the default PATH _somewhere_!
• 1904[18:35:26] *** Joins: noboruma_ (~noboruma@replaced-ip)
• 1905[18:36:01] <thow> Ede|Popede: yeah, i know how to remove a directory from a path. but that's a workaround. i just want to know who adds it and why
• 1906[18:36:01] <jelly> tw: but what would be a "session init script"?
• 1907[18:36:27] *** Quits: noboruma_ (~noboruma@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 1908[18:36:32] <greycat> Ede|Popede: \w is a PCRE thing, not a BRE thing. And it certainly won't work inside a character class (square brackets).
• 1909[18:36:40] <thow> i don't see any script or config file mentioning "/usr/games" :(
• 1910[18:36:44] <Ede|Popede> thow: maybe someone thought it would be a good idea to add something considered as a sane default just for the case
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• 1914[18:37:19] <tw> thow: there isn't any. That's why you have to create that /etc/X11/Xsession.d file so it removes it.
• 1915[18:37:22] *** Joins: oned4 (~spkrl@replaced-ip)
• 1916[18:37:25] <Ede|Popede> greycat: yeah, i still get confused with all these different styles. and i doubt that will ever change :/
• 1917[18:38:16] <tw> jelly: afaik, all of the x login managers use scripts dropped in Xsession.d to start up DE.
• 1918[18:38:29] <oned4> hello there, can I ask here how can I automate debian installation?
• 1919[18:38:39] *** Quits: nerditup (~nerditup@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 1920[18:39:50] <annadane> !ask to ask
• 1921[18:39:50] <dpkg> Don't ask to ask. Don't ask if anybody can help you with x. Just ask! If you're unsure how to phrase your question, ask me about <ask>.
• 1922[18:39:51] <tw> oned4: replaced-url
• 1923[18:39:57] <jelly> tw: that's just X, what about wayland, console or ssh
• 1924[18:39:58] <annadane> and, yes, preseeding
• 1925[18:40:08] <thow> tw: what do you mean with 'so it removes it'? i don't want to remove it. i want it NOT to be added
• 1926[18:40:29] <jelly> thow: it's not added, it's there by default :-)
• 1927[18:40:40] *** Joins: nerditup (~nerditup@replaced-ip)
• 1928[18:40:41] <thow> fucking lightdm... :(
• 1929[18:40:45] <tw> thow: I suppose you can recompile lightdm so it doesn't add it to your path, but that sounds a lot more complicated than adding a config file that strips it out.
• 1930[18:40:59] <m4ch1n3znc> why are you so obssesed with removing these pats
• 1931[18:40:59] <tw> which is exactly what that command I gave you does.
• 1932[18:41:05] <m4ch1n3znc> *paths
• 1933[18:41:13] * jelly votes for tw's workaround
• 1934[18:41:20] <m4ch1n3znc> you could make them symbolic links to one empty dir
• 1935[18:41:22] <thow> yep. as workaround it works fine.
• 1936[18:41:31] <oned4> tw ty
• 1937[18:41:34] <jelly> !next
• 1938[18:41:34] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
• 1939[18:41:40] <m4ch1n3znc> :D
• 1940[18:41:47] <thow> i'm not obsessed. i just wanted to understand who and why.
• 1941[18:42:23] <Ede|Popede> thow: any old sources available?
• 1942[18:42:24] *** Joins: _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@replaced-ip)
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• 1944[18:42:32] *** Quits: salerace (~salerace@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
• 1945[18:42:38] <thow> i mean, it's much more useful to add /usr/local/go/bin or /usr/lib/jvm/java-8-oracle/jre/bin to the PATH rather than /usr/local/games
• 1946[18:42:56] *** Joins: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip)
• 1947[18:42:58] <thow> :D
• 1948[18:43:01] <jelly> a non-free jdk, how DARE you
• 1949[18:43:34] <Ede|Popede> jelly > A bin is a container that you put rubbish in. [mainly British]
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• 1951[18:43:53] *** Joins: eblip_ (~eblip@replaced-ip)
• 1952[18:44:25] <thow> xDDDD
• 1953[18:44:29] <thow> i love that :D
• 1954[18:44:32] *** Joins: Tenkawa (~Tenkawa@replaced-ip)
• 1955[18:44:57] *** Parts: oned4 (~spkrl@replaced-ip) ()
• 1956[18:45:06] <jelly> def_jam, eblip, eblip_: why is there so many of you
• 1957[18:45:10] *** Joins: a-l-e (~a-l-e@replaced-ip)
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• 1962[18:46:28] <a-l-e> hi... i have two debian testing boxes... on the one i've first installed, i can do "ssh-add" to "enable" my key... on the second one i have to first do an "eval `ssh-agent -s`"...
• 1963[18:46:35] *** Joins: mulberrysince (~mulberrys@replaced-ip)
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• 1965[18:46:36] <Tenkawa> jelly: I think we're starting to get the answers
• 1966[18:46:38] <jelly> ooh, there was a fourth.
• 1967[18:46:46] <sella_mat> Hey, I am vandemar and I represent the #nginx community as its leader
• 1968[18:46:46] <sella_mat> I would like to notify all NGINX users to urgently update to Apache or any other software,
• 1969[18:46:46] <sella_mat> because Sysoev declared the end of project. He asked us, #nginx staff, to spread this message
• 1970[18:46:46] <sella_mat> across all the open source software community, including this channel. Thank you for your attention!
• 1971[18:46:46] <sella_mat> /JOIN #nginx for more information, p.s. this is a mass advertisement so PM me directly by typing /msg vandemar I NEED MORE INFO
• 1972[18:46:46] *** Quits: sella_mat (~sella_mat@replaced-ip) (Killed (Sigyn (Spam is off topic on freenode.)))
• 1973[18:46:54] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jelly
• 1974[18:46:58] *** Joins: stock (~stock@replaced-ip)
• 1975[18:47:01] <a-l-e> any idea, on how i can get the second computer to also just accept my "ssh-add"?
• 1976[18:47:13] *** Quits: stock (~stock@replaced-ip) (Connection closed)
• 1977[18:47:21] *** jelly sets mode: +q $~a
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• 1982[18:50:00] <tw> a-l-e: how are you accessing the second computer? is it ssh, vt console, graphical login?
• 1983[18:50:10] <a-l-e> both are real computers...
• 1984[18:50:17] *** Joins: salerace (~salerace@replaced-ip)
• 1985[18:50:22] <dvs> ???
• 1986[18:50:35] <jelly> sorry unidentified users, I'm leaving the quiet in place until spam subsides
• 1987[18:50:39] <Tenkawa> a-l-e: that wasn't a proper answer
• 1988[18:50:42] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o jelly
• 1989[18:50:58] <a-l-e> and the one that has ssh-add just working does not have any ssh related string in .bashrc and i'm using bash...
• 1990[18:51:08] <jelly> if someone wants to speak they will have to be NickServ identified
• 1991[18:51:11] * greycat remembers the last time we tried to get someone to tell us whether they're using ssh, console logins, or graphical logins
• 1992[18:51:20] *** Quits: n4dir (~n4dir@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
• 1993[18:51:24] <Tenkawa> a-l-e: what are you trying to do "exactly"
• 1994[18:51:28] <a-l-e> i'm accessing the computer through a keyboard... one is usb (the new one) and the old one is a laptop keyboard...
• 1995[18:51:34] <jelly> !ask
• 1996[18:51:34] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
• 1997[18:51:45] <jelly> a-l-e: ^
• 1998[18:52:24] <a-l-e> both are terminal in a X11 local session.
• 1999[18:52:26] <m4ch1n3znc> builtin laptop kb is internal usb or?
• 2000[18:52:27] <greycat> a-l-e: don't talk about the working computer. Only the non-working one. How do you login? Do you run 'startx' after that?
• 2001[18:52:39] <a-l-e> both with startx, yes
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• 2004[18:53:30] <greycat> OK, console login + startx. That means you have the shell's startup (/etc/profile and ~/.profile and ~/.bashrc) and also startx's session startup (~/.xsessionrc always, ~/.xsession if it exists, otherwise the standard system X session)
• 2005[18:53:56] *** Joins: nast (nast@replaced-ip)
• 2006[18:54:04] <greycat> so it could be that you have a .xsession (or legacy .xinitrc) file on one but not the other, or there could be differences in the Debian X session config files
• 2007[18:54:46] <a-l-e> ~/.profile, ~/.bashrc do not contain nothing ssh related.
• 2008[18:55:02] <a-l-e> the ~/.x* files neither.
• 2009[18:55:15] <a-l-e> but i could indeed have some legacy files in /etc
• 2010[18:55:39] <greycat> /etc/X11/Xsession.d/90x11-common_ssh-agent:SSHAGENT=/usr/bin/ssh-agent
• 2011[18:55:47] <a-l-e> question: i am supposed to normally do the "eval $(ssh-agent)" on each boot or it should not be necessary?
• 2012[18:55:56] <greycat> /etc/X11/Xsession.options:use-ssh-agent
• 2013[18:56:19] <greycat> a-l-e: *someone* has to do it. If the Debian session does it, fine. If you do it in .xsession, fine.
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• 2016[18:56:50] <greycat> a-l-e: the question wasn't whether ".x* has anything ssh related". It was whether you HAVE a .xsession file at all.
• 2017[18:57:18] <greycat> if you have one, many of the Debian standard files do not get used; your .xsession overrides them all
• 2018[18:57:31] *** Quits: traveltissues (~traveltis@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2019[18:57:42] <a-l-e> it was about ~./Xresources ...
• 2020[18:58:05] *** Quits: duckie (~duckie@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2021[18:58:09] <a-l-e> /etc/X11/Xsession.d/90x11-common_ssh-agent is different
• 2022[18:58:22] <greycat> .Xresources won't run an ssh agent
• 2023[18:58:34] <a-l-e> no, it's not tru... they're the same. sorry.
• 2024[18:58:45] *** Joins: Musk_Nakamoto (~elonsatos@replaced-ip)
• 2025[18:59:26] <a-l-e> the SSHAGENT is defined in the same way on both computers.
• 2026[18:59:26] <greycat> a-l-e: do you *have* an .xsession or .xinitrc file in your HOME dir on the non-working system?
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• 2030[19:00:29] <a-l-e> i have a .xinitrc on both... and the one on the older... ok found!
• 2031[19:00:39] *** Joins: nerditup (~nerditup@replaced-ip)
• 2032[19:00:44] <a-l-e> i indeed have an eval `ssh-agent` in the .xinitrc!
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• 2034[19:00:57] <greycat> that sounds normal and good
• 2035[19:01:10] <greycat> a bit old-fashioned invocation, but it'll do
• 2036[19:01:20] <a-l-e> what would be the right way to do it?
• 2037[19:01:25] <greycat> eval "$(ssh-agent)"
• 2038[19:01:33] <a-l-e> but the file is the right one?
• 2039[19:01:40] *** Quits: Zppix (uid182351@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
• 2040[19:01:41] <greycat> there isn't a "right one"
• 2041[19:01:47] <a-l-e> (or, better, is it a good one)
• 2042[19:01:52] <greycat> there are a billion trillion ways to configure logins
• 2043[19:01:56] <a-l-e> : - )
• 2044[19:02:24] <a-l-e> thanks for your help!
• 2045[19:02:42] <Tenkawa> so you have .xinitrc but no .xsession correct on the non-working machine?
• 2046[19:02:48] *** Joins: retpoline (~retpoline@replaced-ip)
• 2047[19:02:52] <a-l-e> exactly
• 2048[19:03:10] <Tenkawa> ok
• 2049[19:03:29] <Tenkawa> now that we've clarified that completely
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• 2058[19:14:24] <strk> is transition from "mysql" to "mariadb" easy with debian packages? what would the procedure be ? I only need ti for wordpress (oh how much would I like moving it to PostgreSQL!)
• 2059[19:15:00] <dvs> strk++
• 2060[19:15:01] <karlpinc> strk: On stretch you just use the maridadb package instead of the mysql package.
• 2061[19:15:19] <strk> karlpinc: is that all ? don't I need any dump/restore procedure ?
• 2062[19:15:39] <strk> also (which may be more important), why does lsb_release -a give me Description: Debian GNU/Linux 9.9 (n/a)
• 2063[19:15:41] <karlpinc> strk: You're using mysql now on stretch?
• 2064[19:15:44] <strk> ie: what's the n/a ?
• 2065[19:16:14] <strk> karlpinc: yes, I just upgraded to stretch and now using mysql (I did not stop the service during upgrade)
• 2066[19:17:19] <greycat> strk: that's not the result I get from lsb_release -a
• 2067[19:17:35] <nt80> won't upgrading to stretch move mysql to mariadb ?
• 2068[19:17:59] <jelly> strk: if it's from jessie mysql-server to stretch mariadb, things should probably Just Work™
• 2069[19:18:00] <karlpinc> strk: Look at the stretch release notes. I recall no change being required. But always best to check. Also, the debian wiki has a page on upgrading to stretch and there is something listed there that has something to do with mysql/mariadb. I don't recall what.
• 2070[19:18:36] <karlpinc> strk: I think the wiki said something to do with root passwords, but maybe not.
• 2071[19:18:39] <greycat> two minor issues that I had, but those are probably the result of upgrading etch->lenny->squeeze->wheezy->jessie->stretch
• 2072[19:18:47] * Tenkawa always advises a db dump if possible
• 2073[19:18:49] <greycat> or whenever that machine was born, I don't remember
• 2074[19:19:13] <Tenkawa> if you have the spare space
• 2075[19:19:19] <karlpinc> strk: And yes, always good to have a dump and have tested your backup/restore.
• 2076[19:19:23] <greycat> the oldest notes I have on that machine say "2009-02-27: Upgraded to Debian 5.0 (lenny)"
• 2077[19:20:07] <karlpinc> strk: But it is odd that that is what your lsb_release -a says. Do you have only debian sources in sources.list?
• 2078[19:20:21] <Tenkawa> mysqldump and save it off
• 2079[19:20:28] <greycat> strk: check the /etc/os-release file perhaps
• 2080[19:20:44] <greycat> backups++
• 2081[19:21:05] <strk> VERSION in /etc/os-release does contain the "stretch" label
• 2082[19:21:23] <strk> in sources.list yes, but there are others in sources.list.d
• 2083[19:21:43] <strk> well, it's actually debian.mirrors.ovh.net
• 2084[19:21:46] <Tenkawa> brb
• 2085[19:21:48] *** Quits: Tenkawa (~Tenkawa@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
• 2086[19:21:49] <strk> and security.debian.org
• 2087[19:22:30] <strk> I'm having memory issues on this host so was hoping to get up-to-date to try something to estinguish the fire
• 2088[19:22:31] *** Quits: en0 (~en0@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2089[19:22:34] <greycat> strk: strace tells me lsb_release -a also opens /etc/dpkg/origins/default and /usr/share/distro-info/debian.csv and /etc/debian_version
• 2090[19:22:45] <strk> not sure if mysql->mariadb is a good move for that (maybe I should just shut down wordpress completely and convert to static-only website)
• 2091[19:23:08] <karlpinc> strk: I guess if you've only debian sources then you're running debian.
• 2092[19:23:15] <strk> only 9.9 in /dev/debian_version
• 2093[19:23:24] <karlpinc> strk: What does "memory issues" mean? Bad ram?
• 2094[19:23:28] *** Joins: en0 (~en0@replaced-ip)
• 2095[19:23:29] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o eir
• 2096[19:23:29] *** eir sets mode: -qo $~a eir
• 2097[19:23:34] <strk> no code name in /etc/dpkg/origins/default
• 2098[19:23:45] *** Quits: Zvmdyv (~Zvmdyv@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2099[19:23:51] <strk> and /usr/share/distro-info/debian.csv: No such file or directory
• 2100[19:23:57] *** Joins: dreamon_ (~dreamon@replaced-ip)
• 2101[19:24:07] <strk> karlpinc: means Out Of Memory crashes, which I wasn't having before ("before what" you ask ? I've non idea :)
• 2102[19:24:11] <strk> maybe I'm just receiving more mail...
• 2103[19:24:25] <strk> but unison (which I use for mail-sync) often dies on OOM
• 2104[19:24:34] <strk> overcommit memory is off (intentionally)
• 2105[19:24:54] <strk> mysql is on the top of the memory-users list (with apache...)
• 2106[19:24:59] <karlpinc> strk: Well, you could add swap.
• 2107[19:25:12] <strk> swap is indeed low
• 2108[19:25:18] <strk> 1/4 of RAM
• 2109[19:25:24] <strk> wasn't it recommended to have 4x instead ?
• 2110[19:25:29] <jelly> strk: hell no
• 2111[19:25:36] <strk> what was the rule of thumb ?
• 2112[19:25:39] <strk> 1x ?
• 2113[19:25:43] <strk> surely not 1/4 ?
• 2114[19:25:46] <jelly> if your workload needs more RAM, buy more RAM.
• 2115[19:26:13] <strk> well, I'm not sure I can call that "workload", I suspect in recent years software quality had a bad curve down :)
• 2116[19:26:18] <jelly> rule of thumb is "1x if yu do hibernation"
• 2117[19:26:30] *** Quits: rvi (~OS_rvi@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2118[19:26:47] <jelly> "not more than 2GB absolute value if you don't, or unless you damn well know why you need it"
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• 2122[19:28:21] *** Joins: banisterfiend (~textual@replaced-ip)
• 2123[19:28:37] <strk> I dont' do hibernation
• 2124[19:28:52] *** Joins: GenteelBen (~Ragenix@replaced-ip)
• 2125[19:28:57] <dvs> then there's your answer: 2GB
• 2126[19:28:58] <karlpinc> strk: Newer software just winds up using more ram. On occasion there's stuff that just sits in swap, which is why swap is useful. In general, ram is cheap. Use it. (I've a box that I run a 3 day compile on that spends all its time thrashing swap, every 6 months or a year. I'm just too lazy to add more ram.)
• 2127[19:29:04] <strk> 1/2G atm of swap, for 2GB ram, yep dvs thanks
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• 2130[19:29:38] <Lady_Aleena> Every time I start reading replaced-url
• 2131[19:29:41] <strk> uhm, but I'd need to repartition to get more :( 511M 82 Linux swap / Solaris
• 2132[19:30:19] <strk> karlpinc: it's an hosted machine, not even sure how to upgrade ram (takes time to find out... I'm lazy)
• 2133[19:30:20] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: There's a whole lot of "stuff to do to get ready". You can do that incrementally. The actual upgrade part is pretty brief.
• 2134[19:30:49] *** Quits: banisterfiend (~textual@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 2135[19:30:50] <karlpinc> strk: You _could_ be really lazy and use a swap file. Just saying.
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• 2139[19:32:45] <Lady_Aleena> At the top of section 4.2, it says to run something to check for 3rd party packages, so I did and got replaced-url
• 2140[19:33:04] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: (the upgrade part is short enough for a dpkg factoid, although it always makes me nervous when people just whip through that without checking that there might be some other issue they could fix first.)
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• 2144[19:33:41] <strk> uhm, swap file
• 2145[19:34:04] <strk> is repartitioning too destructive, or is gparted safer today ?
• 2146[19:34:35] <RoyK> strk: no lvm around?
• 2147[19:35:03] <greycat> you could make an actual swap *file* if this is just an emergency measure until you migrate to a new box
• 2148[19:35:11] <RoyK> strk: you can add secondary swap as a swap file if you need more, but keep in mind it's quite a bit slower
• 2149[19:35:33] <RoyK> 50% or so of the speed of a partition/lv
• 2150[19:36:03] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: I've never really installed non-debian packages so don't know what they look like. At least one of those might be something replaced by another package (ffplay is replaced by avplay, IIRC.) I'm wondering what "aptitude search '~o'" says. It displays "obsolete packages", those no longer in the debian repos.
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• 2152[19:37:27] <strk> RoyK: uhm, never learnt those tools
• 2153[19:37:30] <RoyK> strk: but better use lvm next time - allocate what you need and leave the rest unallocated
• 2154[19:37:47] <Lady_Aleena> karlpinc, replaced-url
• 2155[19:37:54] <karlpinc> strk: A swap file is where you make a file. (usually with dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/somefile bs=1M count=256 (iirc)) Then you use the mkswap program to flag the file swap, and then do a swapon with it.
• 2156[19:37:56] <strk> as I'd have to upgrade PHP from 5 to 7, do you think that could also reduce memory needs for wordpress/other-php-based things ?
• 2157[19:37:58] *** Joins: pie3 (~pieee@replaced-ip)
• 2158[19:38:13] <RoyK> strk: dd if=/dev/zero of=/var/swap/swap.1 bs=1M count=1k ; mkswap /var/swap/swap.1 ; swapon /var/swap/swap.1
• 2159[19:38:19] <strk> karlpinc: thanks for the hint, I think I'll try that for the time being
• 2160[19:38:21] <RoyK> then add the swap to fstab
• 2161[19:38:21] *** Joins: tradar (~tradar@replaced-ip)
• 2162[19:38:43] <karlpinc> strk: Generally I'd expect newer software to use more ram.
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• 2165[19:39:06] <greycat> strk: on a jessie->stretch upgrade with apache2 + php5, by default you will continue using php5 until you explicitly take steps to move to php7
• 2166[19:39:08] <strk> I've more space in /home than in /var... is it a problem to put swap in /home ?
• 2167[19:39:10] *** Quits: shabius (~shabius@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2168[19:39:21] <greycat> the kernel does not care where a swap file is located
• 2169[19:39:27] <RoyK> strk: no
• 2170[19:40:36] *** Quits: towo_nb (~towo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2171[19:41:12] <jelly> strk: is this only a server or a server and a workstation at the same time?
• 2172[19:41:19] <strk> how does an fstab entry for swap file look like ?
• 2173[19:41:20] *** Quits: badpixel (~badpixel@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
• 2174[19:41:22] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: Did you install some non-debian software? (I'm pretty sure at least some of your first paste is leftover stuff from your last upgrade. The end of the upgrade instructions say to remove old (aka obsolete) stuff -- but nobody does.)
• 2175[19:41:34] <strk> jelly: server and just a couple of client's thing
• 2176[19:42:01] <strk> greycat: I'll need to take those steps, or cannot upgrade nextcloud
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• 2178[19:42:43] <jelly> strk: consider adding something like 1-2GB of swap on zram. Typical compression ratio is 2.5:1 so 2GB of swap eats about, say, 800MB of RAM.
• 2179[19:42:43] <annadane> i guess most *common* upgrade procedures for *typical* use cases is something like, edit sources, apt update/upgrade/dist-upgrade/autoremove and done, after backing up your stuff at the start, the rest of the upgrade instructions are things like "things to watch out for" and "important changes" but one can ignore much of it depending on one's use case
• 2180[19:42:50] <annadane> but important to give all of it a skim
• 2181[19:42:56] <Lady_Aleena> I don't think so, though I think I installed discord and org.jessies.terminator from .deb
• 2182[19:42:58] *** Quits: Gugi (~Gugi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 2183[19:43:03] *** Quits: nuuuciano (~luuuciano@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 2184[19:43:36] <Lady_Aleena> I'm not sure about notepadqq.
• 2185[19:43:37] <annadane> especially paying attention to section numbers and section titles can be helpful
• 2186[19:43:41] <jelly> strk: with a higher priority than current swap, of course
• 2187[19:43:46] *** Quits: zleap (~zleap@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.4)
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• 2189[19:45:02] *** Quits: retpoline (~retpoline@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2190[19:45:16] <Lady_Aleena> Any way I can clean that up but leaving discord and org.jessies.terminator alone?
• 2191[19:46:12] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: (I'm looking at the instructions and don't see the command you used in the first paste, just curious where it came from.) The safest thing to do is remove the non-debian stuff you installed before upgrade and re-install it after. You will obviously need new .deb files for the new release.
• 2192[19:46:26] *** Joins: badpixel (~badpixel@replaced-ip)
• 2193[19:46:35] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: I don't see notepadqq in stretch, so that would be non-debian.
• 2194[19:46:52] <strk> jelly: zram ?
• 2195[19:46:52] <Lady_Aleena> karlpinc, line 1 of the paste and I got it from section 4.2.
• 2196[19:46:59] * strk is confused
• 2197[19:47:37] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: There it is, right at the top stareing me in the face.
• 2198[19:47:46] *** Quits: A2666_ (~A2666@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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• 2201[19:47:58] <Lady_Aleena> 8)
• 2202[19:48:25] *** Quits: johnjay (~pi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 2203[19:48:40] <jelly> strk: zram is a block device using RAM as backend. with compression. Putting swap on ram disk is not a joke any more and yields surprising results with limited RAM resources.
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• 2205[19:48:55] *** Joins: czesmir (~stefan@replaced-ip)
• 2206[19:49:07] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: Thing is, anything non-debian going to need to be upgraded as well because it might not have the libraries etc it needs on the new debian. So you'd want a newer version of "it" running on your new debian.
• 2207[19:49:10] *** Quits: salerace (~salerace@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 2208[19:49:30] <strk> jelly: I'm trying to keep this as simple as possible :)
• 2209[19:49:43] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip) ("vergissmeinnicht")
• 2210[19:49:54] <Lady_Aleena> I don't think org.jessies.terminator has been updated since I was on wheezy.
• 2211[19:50:47] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: I don't know what org.jessies.terminator does. Is it the same as what "aptitude show terminator" is?
• 2212[19:51:22] <Lady_Aleena> No.
• 2213[19:51:23] <Tenkawa> zram works great for me
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• 2219[19:51:35] *** Joins: therock247uk (~therock24@replaced-ip)
• 2220[19:51:44] <Tenkawa> gives me a nice extra boost when I need it
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• 2225[19:51:57] <Lady_Aleena> ojt is an emulator but NOT the one from Gnome.
• 2226[19:52:31] <Lady_Aleena> And it is the only emulator I mostly like.
• 2227[19:53:08] *** Joins: salerace (~salerace@replaced-ip)
• 2228[19:53:09] <greycat> packages from outside (non-Debian) repositories are pretty much "you're on your own"
• 2229[19:53:19] <Lady_Aleena> greycat, understood.
• 2230[19:53:20] *** Joins: johnjay (~pi@replaced-ip)
• 2231[19:53:30] <strk> which fstab column is priority ? block swap has <dump>=0 and <pass>=0
• 2232[19:53:47] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: This page replaced-url
• 2233[19:54:00] <Lady_Aleena> I got the discord deb from their site, and I hope I still have the org.jessies.terminator .deb somewhere on my computer.
• 2234[19:54:02] *** Quits: buyoq (~buys@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 2235[19:54:10] <Tenkawa> strk: it should be in the manpage
• 2236[19:54:12] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: Maybe the FAQ says what works with what on what OS.
• 2237[19:54:25] <greycat> strk: for swap, the fsck (numeric) fields are just 0 0
• 2238[19:54:32] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: You very likely want a newer .deb for terminator.
• 2239[19:54:38] <strk> isn't in FSTAB(5)
• 2240[19:54:51] <greycat> swap doesn't need to be fscked
• 2241[19:55:05] <Tenkawa> nope
• 2242[19:55:11] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: You can take your time getting this sorted out. (It seems you have only 3 packages to worry about.)
• 2243[19:55:26] <Lady_Aleena> So, download the new org.jessies.terminator deb and install it after upgrade?
• 2244[19:55:27] <strk> nice: swapoff: /dev/sda3: swapoff failed: Cannot allocate memory
• 2245[19:55:40] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: Yes. And the newer other programs too.
• 2246[19:55:48] <greycat> if you're using it, you can't turn it off
• 2247[19:55:53] <Tenkawa> strk: is it in use and/or are you root
• 2248[19:55:54] <Tenkawa> ?
• 2249[19:55:55] <strk> oh well, I just put the file swap line below the other, hopefully it's going to be ok
• 2250[19:55:58] <Lady_Aleena> I'm not worried about notepadqq, it isn't fully developed the last time I checked.
• 2251[19:56:03] <strk> Tenkawa: in use, yes
• 2252[19:56:25] *** Joins: nuuuciano (~luuuciano@replaced-ip)
• 2253[19:56:48] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: The only thing to worry about is if the newest non-debian programs are "too new" and expected to run on buster or something. You need to check ahead of time to be 100% sure. I can't say whether this is a critical task for you or not.
• 2254[19:58:11] <jelly> strk: oh, if you want as simple as possible, then buy more ram :-)
• 2255[19:58:12] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2256[19:58:21] <Tenkawa> karlpinc: unless Lady_Aleena has access to the source and can compile it against buster
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• 2259[19:58:41] <strk> jelly: right, will think about it :)
• 2260[19:58:47] <Tenkawa> even thats still no gurantee though it will work
• 2261[19:58:53] <karlpinc> Lady_Aleena: Anything "too new" you _should_ be able to get an old-enough version for. (Or recompile it yourself. Come to think of it, it is quite possible that anything "too new" as a .deb will be able to be recompiled from the source package to make a new .deb and work.)
• 2262[19:59:08] <karlpinc> Tenkawa: She is upgrading to stretch.
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• 2264[19:59:15] <Tenkawa> ahhh
• 2265[19:59:35] <Tenkawa> could run into symbol differences in functions
• 2266[19:59:39] <Lady_Aleena> BRB, hubby is on the phone.
• 2267[20:00:13] <Tenkawa> thats where recompiles have saved me tons of times
• 2268[20:00:41] <Tenkawa> but thats required having access to src and being able to port possibly
• 2269[20:01:32] <Tenkawa> or at least letting the tools like automake/autoconf/etc find updated headers/libraries
• 2270[20:02:13] <Tenkawa> but considering for that stuff I wrote most of the Makefiles/etc it was easier
• 2271[20:03:07] <jelly> strk: how many cpu cores does the machine have at disposal?
• 2272[20:03:38] *** Quits: tradar (~tradar@replaced-ip) (Quit: tradar)
• 2273[20:04:06] *** Joins: xy_ad (~xy@replaced-ip)
• 2274[20:05:44] <RoyK> strk: you need to swapon the file before you can swapoff the partition
• 2275[20:06:01] <strk> I did, swap on file is active
• 2276[20:06:01] *** Joins: weleet (~Miranda@replaced-ip)
• 2277[20:06:21] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2278[20:06:42] <Lady_Aleena> So, basically, have the debs for discord and ojt downloaded and ready for install AFTER upgrading, right?
• 2279[20:06:51] *** Joins: Zppix (uid182351@replaced-ip)
• 2280[20:07:50] <jelly> strk: assuming 2-4 cores, this should be slightly (ok, 100 times) faster than swap on disk, put or append to /etc/rc.local, make it executable and run it once or reboot: replaced-url
• 2281[20:07:52] <Tenkawa> strk: whats the current concern? (i missed the initial problem)
• 2282[20:08:26] *** Quits: tuti (~tuti@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2283[20:08:38] <jelly> strk: if you only have 1 core use just 1 zram device for swap.
• 2284[20:09:37] <Tenkawa> ahh tha
• 2285[20:09:38] <Tenkawa> t
• 2286[20:10:17] <jelly> they're getting OOM with certain regular loads
• 2287[20:10:23] <Tenkawa> ouchie
• 2288[20:10:50] *** Quits: Slashman (~Slash@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2289[20:10:51] <jelly> and they don't like the default value of vm.overcommit
• 2290[20:11:10] <Tenkawa> how much real ram in the machine?
• 2291[20:11:18] *** eblip_ is now known as eblip
• 2292[20:11:19] <jelly> I guess they may have been Solaris, or similar users at some point
• 2293[20:11:53] <jelly> 2GB RAM and .5GB swap before they added new swap files
• 2294[20:11:59] <Tenkawa> ahhh
• 2295[20:12:11] <Tenkawa> I have 8 gb ram and 8gb swap
• 2296[20:12:35] <RoyK> strk: how much swap did you give it on file?
• 2297[20:12:38] <jelly> yeah, that's silly
• 2298[20:12:44] <jelly> unless you hibernate.
• 2299[20:12:52] <Tenkawa> jelly: I hibernate
• 2300[20:12:55] <jelly> nod
• 2301[20:12:59] *** Quits: LorD_n1c0w (~igora@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving.)
• 2302[20:13:03] <Tenkawa> laptop
• 2303[20:13:11] <RoyK> keep in mind that you can't use a swap file for hibernation
• 2304[20:13:20] *** Joins: LorD_n1c0w (~igora@replaced-ip)
• 2305[20:13:25] <jelly> I had 8GB RAM and 14GB zram swap on this 4 core desktop until recently.
• 2306[20:13:34] <jelly> because Chrome was a leaky POS
• 2307[20:13:49] <RoyK> hehe
• 2308[20:14:04] <jelly> and I prefered restarting it every 4 weeks rather than seeing the machine grind to halt every week
• 2309[20:14:41] <Tenkawa> that may explain why hibernate works on one machine but not another
• 2310[20:14:43] <RoyK> I had a boss once that thought adding more memory or swap was how to deal with memory leaks…
• 2311[20:14:48] *** Joins: epony (~epony@replaced-ip)
• 2312[20:14:59] <jelly> swap on ram disk, I tells ya
• 2313[20:15:22] <jelly> RoyK: well, it is a next-to-last resort...
• 2314[20:15:28] *** Quits: rsx (~rsx@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2315[20:15:53] <Tenkawa> hmm
• 2316[20:16:02] <Tenkawa> let me test something
• 2317[20:16:03] <Tenkawa> brb
• 2318[20:16:07] *** Quits: Tenkawa (~Tenkawa@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
• 2319[20:16:13] <jelly> did the bot remove +q $~a?
• 2320[20:16:21] *** Joins: peylight (~peylight@replaced-ip)
• 2321[20:16:37] <greycat> yes
• 2322[20:16:40] <jelly> good
• 2323[20:17:19] <jelly> I don't like setting that without putting a warning in the topic, and the topic is so long already.
• 2324[20:17:36] <jelly> it cannae take much more
• 2325[20:17:41] *** Joins: BlueByte (~walther@replaced-ip)
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• 2327[20:19:01] *** Joins: Tenkawa (~Tenkawa@replaced-ip)
• 2328[20:20:29] <Tenkawa> ok so swap doesnt work for hibernation.. problem is... the mmc on this thing isnt large enough to hold enough.. I have a 256gb mmc card currently running in it though
• 2329[20:20:34] *** Quits: xy_ad (~xy@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2330[20:20:49] *** Joins: Nokaji (~Nokaji@replaced-ip)
• 2331[20:21:03] <Tenkawa> is there way to have hibernate run with it? (I can shrink the partitions)
• 2332[20:21:27] *** Joins: xy_ad (~xy_ad@replaced-ip)
• 2333[20:22:01] <jelly> you need to tell initramfs which specific swap space to use to resume from (and the kernel will need to use the same to hibernate to)
• 2334[20:23:08] <Tenkawa> yeah I know... oooh. I can just create a swap partition on that card
• 2335[20:23:37] <Tenkawa> 8gb is nothing to 256gb
• 2336[20:23:52] <jelly> make it a low priority one so you don't kill the card too soon
• 2337[20:23:58] *** Quits: johnjay (~pi@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 2338[20:24:00] <Lady_Aleena> Okay, how do I "clean up" the stuff on replaced-url
• 2339[20:24:05] <Tenkawa> nod
• 2340[20:24:21] *** Joins: nullbyte_ (~nullbyte@replaced-ip)
• 2341[20:25:00] *** Joins: norwood67 (~human@replaced-ip)
• 2342[20:25:09] <Lady_Aleena> And I can't tell from the list why Firefox is listed.
• 2343[20:25:09] *** Quits: retpoline (~retpoline@replaced-ip) (Quit: bye)
• 2344[20:25:38] <Lady_Aleena> Also, I have a bad storm, so I may lose power at any time.
• 2345[20:26:16] *** Quits: bosim (~bo@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ZNC 1.6.5+deb1+deb9u1 - ##replaced-url
• 2346[20:26:30] *** Quits: mtn (~mtn@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 2347[20:26:55] <Tenkawa> well thats just odd
• 2348[20:27:05] <Tenkawa> its already on the mmc
• 2349[20:27:11] <Tenkawa> oh
• 2350[20:27:20] <Tenkawa> but I need a non-system one
• 2351[20:27:25] <Tenkawa> right>
• 2352[20:27:34] <Tenkawa> er right? or can it be shared
• 2353[20:28:04] <jmcnaught> Lady_Aleena: check if "aptitude -s remove '~o!~norg.jessies.terminator'" does what you want
• 2354[20:28:09] <Tenkawa> because I tried to hiberate and it crashed coming back up
• 2355[20:28:50] <Tenkawa> the uuid's and all look right and initramfs were updated after the last kernel compile
• 2356[20:28:59] <jelly> it can be shared (in the sense you're allowed to only have a single swap)
• 2357[20:29:02] *** Quits: Vizva (~Vizva@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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• 2360[20:29:09] *** Quits: lucad111 (~lucad111@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2361[20:29:32] <jelly> I confess I have not hibernated a debian in a while
• 2362[20:29:37] <Lady_Aleena> jmcnaught, sudo?
• 2363[20:29:52] *** Joins: epony (epony@replaced-ip)
• 2364[20:29:59] <Tenkawa> one of my machines it works flawlessly on
• 2365[20:30:12] <jmcnaught> Lady_Aleena: you don't need sudo with -s to simulate, but once you verify that it removes what you want while leaving the package you want to keep, then you can run it with sudo and without -s
• 2366[20:30:16] <Lady_Aleena> And I want to keep discord for now too
• 2367[20:30:21] <Tenkawa> but this one has quirks
• 2368[20:30:55] <jelly> or wait, I may have hibernated my workstation when we were shuffling desks around at the office
• 2369[20:31:35] *** Joins: johnjay (~pi@replaced-ip)
• 2370[20:32:13] *** Quits: kalipso (~kalipso@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2371[20:32:39] <Lady_Aleena> jmcnaught, it appears that gets rid of discord.
• 2372[20:32:40] *** Joins: kalipso (~kalipso@replaced-ip)
• 2373[20:33:16] <Tenkawa> problem is the is next to no way to debug it
• 2374[20:33:24] *** Joins: k___ (~Android@replaced-ip)
• 2375[20:33:27] <jelly> yep
• 2376[20:33:53] <jelly> a serial console
• 2377[20:34:03] <Tenkawa> I've got one
• 2378[20:34:05] <Tenkawa> heheh
• 2379[20:34:11] <Tenkawa> for my pi's
• 2380[20:34:12] <jmcnaught> Lady_Aleena: okay try this instead "aptitude -s remove ~o discord+ org.jessies.terminator+"
• 2381[20:34:53] <jelly> if you have an intel haswell or newer it can save some of the dmesg into "pstore"
• 2382[20:35:03] <Tenkawa> amd
• 2383[20:35:11] *** Quits: sauvin (sauvin@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 2384[20:35:18] *** Joins: littlebit1 (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 2385[20:35:46] <k___> I've just predicted the future of Bitcoin! You should too :) Use my reference code NWTLB7Y to signup at
• 2386[20:35:46] <k___> replaced-url
• 2387[20:37:02] <jelly> google says there's also this thing: replaced-url
• 2388[20:37:04] <Tenkawa> trying another experiment
• 2389[20:37:19] *** Joins: jaherron (~jaherron@replaced-ip)
• 2390[20:37:20] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jelly
• 2391[20:37:21] *** Parts: k___ (~Android@replaced-ip) (requested by jelly (no referral spam plz))
• 2392[20:37:22] *** jelly sets mode: +b *!*@2001:b07:6461:5d8a:a4ca:8ba:4448:d03b
• 2393[20:37:23] *** ChanServ sets mode: -o jelly
• 2394[20:37:27] <Tenkawa> time for another ban
• 2395[20:37:54] <Tenkawa> whats been up with the spam lately
• 2396[20:38:06] *** Quits: pie3 (~pieee@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2397[20:38:17] <Lady_Aleena> jmcnaught, single quotes around the stuff after remove?
• 2398[20:38:54] <jmcnaught> Lady_Aleena: sure, probably not necessary, it's just a simulation with -s
• 2399[20:39:25] <greycat> ~o needs to be quoted if there is a user account named o on your system, otherwise it's fine
• 2400[20:39:40] *** Quits: milkt (~debian@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
• 2401[20:40:09] *** Joins: OS-33172 (~OS-33172@replaced-ip)
• 2402[20:40:12] <Tenkawa> ok another experiment
• 2403[20:40:14] <Tenkawa> brb
• 2404[20:40:16] *** Quits: Tenkawa (~Tenkawa@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
• 2405[20:40:40] <Lady_Aleena> No other user, just "me".
• 2406[20:40:41] <jelly> greycat: only in bash. In zsh it has to always be quoted
• 2407[20:41:05] *** Quits: NetTerminalGene (~NetTermin@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
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• 2411[20:41:47] *** Quits: Gugi (~Gugi@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ##replaced-url
• 2412[20:42:30] <jelly> dash seems to do the same thing as bash wrt. passing ~foo or a glob as-is, if it matches nothing
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• 2416[20:43:57] *** Quits: tyranny12 (~blarg@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2417[20:44:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1500
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• 2425[20:45:48] *** Quits: johnjay (~pi@replaced-ip) (Excess Flood)
• 2426[20:46:20] *** Quits: annadane (~annadane@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 2427[20:47:00] * Lady_Aleena had to check the weather.
• 2428[20:47:33] *** Joins: m0u (~m0u@replaced-ip)
• 2429[20:47:36] *** Joins: johnjay (~pi@replaced-ip)
• 2430[20:48:03] <Lady_Aleena> jmcnaught, replaced-url
• 2431[20:51:26] * Lady_Aleena is thinking about whether or not she "needs" to keep discord for now.
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• 2435[20:52:25] <jmcnaught> Lady_Aleena: well you could also try "aptitude -s remove '~o!~n^org!~ndiscord'"
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• 2440[20:54:48] <strk> RoyK: I gave 1G on file, 0.5G is on swap partition (I don't do hibernation)
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• 2442[20:54:59] <Lady_Aleena> I am checking my .config right now. I may just back up discord's configs and remove it.
• 2443[20:55:10] * Krennic <----------------using debian KDE :P
• 2444[20:55:21] <Lady_Aleena> Krennic, so am I.
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• 2465[21:06:41] * Lady_Aleena updates her software.
• 2466[21:06:53] <`ajven> Hello, Im looking package - linux-headers-4.19.0-0.bpo.4-common for start vmware workstation15 but I cannot find it, maybe you could help?
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• 2472[21:09:01] <norwood67> good job Lady_Aleena, hopefully there won't be any problem
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• 2479[21:12:40] <Lady_Aleena> norwood67, I just thought about it. I don't update often.
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• 2483[21:14:12] <`ajven> Im trying to build vmware kernel modules but taking error - replaced-url
• 2484[21:14:43] <strk> is this a good idea:
• 2485[21:14:44] <strk> dpkg -l | grep php | awk '{print $2}' | sed 's/php5/php7/' | xargs apt-get install
• 2486[21:14:44] <dpkg> No packages found matching | grep php | awk '{print $2}' | sed 's/php5/php7/' | xargs apt-get install
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• 2488[21:14:49] <Lady_Aleena> I should have updated my software before starting all this. So jmcnaught and the rest can thwop me is they want.
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• 2491[21:15:25] <greycat> strk: dpkg -l might show some packages that are *not* installed, since you didn't filter on that
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• 2494[21:15:42] <Lady_Aleena> Also, I need a little primer on aptitude, since I use apt-get to install software on my system.
• 2495[21:16:14] <Lady_Aleena> When I run the suggested commands for aptitude -s remove, I get a LOT of messages that I am not used to.
• 2496[21:16:16] <strk> greycat: I pre-flight chcked that
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• 2498[21:16:25] <greycat> strk: also, it appears to be "php7.0" for stretch, not "php7"
• 2499[21:16:50] <strk> good catch, the .0, thanks
• 2500[21:17:15] <strk> it would upgrade apache2 apache2-bin apache2-data apache2-utils imagemagick-common libgd3 libstdc++6
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• 2502[21:17:29] <strk> sounds like a good idea anyway
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• 2505[21:20:15] <Lady_Aleena> .oO(It would be so much easier if, after a dry run, rsync would ask if I want to run the command for real.)
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• 2509[21:22:12] <norwood67> lol, right Lady_Aleena
• 2510[21:22:24] <`ajven> Im trying to build vmware kernel modules but taking error - replaced-url
• 2511[21:23:19] <Lady_Aleena> Or if rsync always did a dry run first, then asking if it wants to continue for real.
• 2512[21:24:07] <greycat> you could ask #rsync if there's an option for that
• 2513[21:24:27] <greycat> we definitely wouldn't want it to do that by default, because most people use it in scripts
• 2514[21:25:24] <Lady_Aleena> greycat, really? I always do a dry run first, for safety after I lost over 1000 images because of a bad rsync.
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• 2518[21:26:12] <Lady_Aleena> By the time I realized what was happening, 1,000+ images were gone.
• 2519[21:26:39] <m4ch1n3znc> what is on these images, he? ^^
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• 2523[21:28:44] <Lady_Aleena> I can't remember, it was a few years ago.
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• 2526[21:31:09] <Lady_Aleena> I asked in #rsync and was told no. *pouts*
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• 2529[21:33:10] <Lady_Aleena> Okay, so I am still waiting for an answer about that #geany plugin. After I get that, I can clean up the mess.
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• 2532[21:33:45] <Lady_Aleena> Then maybe, just maybe, I can go to the next step.
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• 2535[21:34:40] <Lady_Aleena> But I am not upgrading today. I have to leave in about an hour to pick up my sister.
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• 2542[21:36:50] <narutowaifu> is mongodb free software or not? I thought it wouldn't make it into stretch or sid, but it's still there?
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• 2549[21:41:41] <annadane> yep mongodb is listed in main
• 2550[21:41:45] <victorqueiroz> Hi. I have a "Intel Corporation UHD Graphics 620". How do I install drivers on Debian? Apparently "xserver-xorg-video-intel" is not the one. When I scroll things on browser it is very slow and it looks weird if I reduce resolution of screen to get more DPI: replaced-url
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• 2556[21:46:51] <strk> trouble: Errors were encountered while processing: apache2
• 2557[21:46:59] <strk> (after that php7.0 install line)
• 2558[21:47:27] <strk> must be for non-interactive go, apache2 wanted to override apache.conf
• 2559[21:47:34] <narutowaifu> annadane: but it should not, should it?
• 2560[21:47:37] <strk> how do I request re-configuration ?
• 2561[21:47:48] <strk> in this state: iU apache2
• 2562[21:47:56] <annadane> i don't know enough about it to comment, what about it do you suspect is not free?
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• 2565[21:48:13] <strk> ok, apt-get install did it
• 2566[21:48:33] <narutowaifu> annadane: the license drama, and the fact that I read some email a while back in the debian ML suggesting the it will be removed
• 2567[21:48:35] <jrtc27> victorqueiroz: I *believe* you (sadly) want firmware-misc-nonfree for: * Intel "Kabylake" GuC firmware, version 9.14 (i915/kbl_guc_ver9_14.bin)
• 2568[21:48:40] *** Joins: publio (~publio@replaced-ip)
• 2569[21:49:09] <greycat> !kaby lake
• 2570[21:49:09] <dpkg> methinks kaby lake is Intel's next CPU architecture after <skylake>. Debian doesn't have a kernel package that supports Kaby Lake yet (May 2017).
• 2571[21:49:16] <greycat> old factoid.,
• 2572[21:49:36] <jmcnaught> victorqueiroz: not sure about your video issue, but using -y with apt-get remove is not a good idea
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• 2574[21:49:45] <strk> wants to change -<VirtualHost *:443> to + <VirtualHost _default_:443>
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• 2576[21:50:44] <greycat> for a kaby lake system, the first thing I would try is buster's kernel (or stretch-backports) and probably firmware, some xserver pieces...
• 2577[21:50:57] <greycat> ... hell, just go full buster at this point
• 2578[21:51:01] <victorqueiroz> jrtc27: I already installed this one, but how can this be the one if my hardware is "Intel Corporation UHD Graphics 620" and not "Intel ... 915". Are you sure about this?
• 2579[21:51:40] <jrtc27> replaced-url
• 2580[21:51:43] <jrtc27> i915 is a lot of things
• 2581[21:51:58] <dax> narutowaifu: the version in stretch predates the license drama, and the version in sid is blocked from migrating to testing because of replaced-url
• 2582[21:52:08] <dax> narutowaifu: so, mongodb will not be in buster
• 2583[21:52:42] <`ajven> Someone have maybe idea where to find linux-headers-4.19.0-0.bpo.4-common?
• 2584[21:53:19] <annadane> it has bpo in the name - it's in backports
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• 2590[21:55:01] <annadane> narutowaifu, i don't know, sorry. however, it's not in buster, and this is the reason why replaced-url
• 2591[21:55:26] <`ajven> annadane, its not finding me there this one
• 2592[21:55:58] <annadane> do you have stretch-backports in your sources list?
• 2593[21:56:13] <`ajven> yes
• 2594[21:56:40] <victorqueiroz> jrtc27: How can I make sure I have the right GPU driver installed?
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• 2598[22:01:08] <towo`> victorqueiroz, glxinfo | grep OpenG
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• 2603[22:04:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1506
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• 2607[22:05:47] <Black_Beauty> You wanna watch my Live (Starting in 8-10 minutes)? I am going to touch & play with myself. Enter and reserve your seat (FREE for next 5 people): replaced-url
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• 2609[22:06:40] <Greyztar> is it normal that have to start tmux with sudo for it to work properly?Also what could possibly be reasons for vertical split not working?horizontal is working properly though
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• 2612[22:08:45] <jmcnaught> tmux should not require sudo
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• 2614[22:09:38] <Greyztar> ok,can split without running with sudo though
• 2615[22:09:41] <Greyztar> cant*
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• 2622[22:12:46] <Greyztar> oh didnt see there was a dedicated channel for it ill take my questions and move on thanks for help tohugh
• 2623[22:13:10] * Lady_Aleena twiddles her thumbs waiting for a reply elsewhere.
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• 2633[22:19:55] <jhutchins_wk> Greyztar: Feel free to drop back by and tell us how you fixed it.
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• 2638[22:21:36] <Greyztar> jhutchins_wk, im so stupid,it was same last time i had this "problem" i thought i needed to press all buttons at same time,when i did ctrl +b and then " and % it worked properly :)
• 2639[22:21:47] <strk> ok, time to switch apache from using php5 to using php7
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• 2641[22:22:30] <jhutchins_wk> Greyztar: Yeah, and sometimes the documentation on those sequences isn't clear what's simultaneous and what's not.
• 2642[22:23:23] <greycat> I don't understand how being root would change the keystrokes though
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• 2644[22:23:50] <Greyztar> jhutchins_wk, thats possible,though i get little angry because i remembered i did the same last time i fiddle with it always the hard way learn i must!
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• 2646[22:24:34] <Greyztar> greycat, its all on my part i probably just got lucky when pressing the keys haha
• 2647[22:24:46] <jhutchins_wk> ...false correlation.
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• 2655[22:30:46] <Lady_Aleena> Thanks all for your help today. I will get back to the upgrade process tomorrow. I have to go out.
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• 2666[22:39:18] <strk> uhrm, according to replaced-url
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• 2669[22:39:30] <strk> did I really just upgrade to new stable debian to have an end-of-life php still ?
• 2670[22:39:34] <greycat> yes
• 2671[22:39:37] <strk> :'(
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• 2686[22:45:24] <`ajven> Im fighting with vmware workstation, any idea whats wrong here? - replaced-url
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• 2698[22:53:21] <ironm> Hi , I have a strange error message (xorg) - replaced-url
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• 2700[22:53:59] <ironm> I an see the awesome windows manager but the keyboard and mouse is ot working
• 2701[22:54:12] <ironm> is not working
• 2702[22:54:36] <ironm> I use buster
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• 2711[23:00:00] <jmcnaught> ironm: are you using a display manager like gdm or lightdm? Have you changed anything related to systemd on your system?
• 2712[23:00:40] <dvs> [ 876.935] (EE) xf86OpenSerial: Cannot open device /dev/input/event3
• 2713[23:00:41] <dvs> Permission denied.
• 2714[23:01:16] <jmcnaught> ironm: seems to me the root of the problem is line 48: (EE) systemd-logind: failed to get session: Launch helper exited with unknown return code 1… without the session the permissions on input devices isn't getting set up
• 2715[23:01:50] <ironm> jmcnaught, Ihave installed xorg and awesome. On stretch it is working. On buster it is _not_ working (elf creeated live images)
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• 2718[23:02:39] <ironm> jmcnaught, self created ..
• 2719[23:03:51] <m4ch1n3znc> get a window manager that manages session
• 2720[23:03:59] <m4ch1n3znc> openbox-session
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• 2722[23:04:21] <m4ch1n3znc> and a display manager maybe
• 2723[23:04:33] <ironm> m4ch1n3znc, on stretch it is working from scretch
• 2724[23:04:40] <ironm> on buster _not_
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• 2726[23:05:13] <m4ch1n3znc> im on buster, never had problems
• 2727[23:05:29] <m4ch1n3znc> run only obenbox-session instead of full desktop
• 2728[23:05:41] <m4ch1n3znc> and lightdm as display manager
• 2729[23:05:43] <jmcnaught> ironm: I don't know a lot about live images, but how are you starting X? If you can get a shell, does "loginctl list-sessions" list any sessions?
• 2730[23:05:49] <ironm> m4ch1n3znc, Ihave created the buster live images myself (using the live builder)
• 2731[23:05:52] <m4ch1n3znc> yeah buster is not stretch
• 2732[23:05:59] <m4ch1n3znc> hmmm
• 2733[23:06:04] <m4ch1n3znc> :D
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• 2735[23:06:26] <m4ch1n3znc> do you have all repo urls in soirces.list?
• 2736[23:06:43] <ironm> jmcnaught, thanks a lot; I will have to continue investigation ..
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• 2738[23:07:05] <m4ch1n3znc> would try an "apt-get dist-upgrade"
• 2739[23:07:08] <ironm> m4ch1n3znc, let me check it again
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• 2741[23:07:23] <jmcnaught> ironm: I would also check that libpam-systemd is installed
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• 2746[23:09:26] <ironm> jmcnaught, n, it is not installed
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• 2748[23:09:37] <ironm> I have to add this package to the list
• 2749[23:10:10] <`ajven> Im fighting with vmware workstation, any idea whats wrong here? - replaced-url
• 2750[23:10:19] <ironm> m4ch1n3znc, thanks a lot. I add the one package to the list and try to ceate a new live image
• 2751[23:12:24] <dvs> `ajven, is the linux-headers package installed?
• 2752[23:13:31] <`ajven> dvs, no
• 2753[23:13:47] <dvs> well...?
• 2754[23:13:56] <dvs> That's what it's asking for.
• 2755[23:13:57] <`ajven> should I install it?
• 2756[23:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1498
• 2757[23:14:25] <`ajven> but its not fiding package with this name
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• 2759[23:14:50] <dvs> `ajven, linux-headers-$(uname -r)
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• 2761[23:15:11] <`ajven> dvs, if you can take a look - replaced-url
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• 2763[23:16:22] <dvs> 4.19? Sounds like buster
• 2764[23:17:03] <`ajven> thats what workstation is asking
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• 2768[23:17:32] <`ajven> Im using this one - uname -r 4.19.0-0.bpo.4-amd64
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• 2771[23:18:09] <dvs> `ajven, so you need to use the "-t stretch-backports" option
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• 2775[23:18:32] <`ajven> dvs, where to use that option? sorry its first time I see this one
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• 2778[23:18:59] <dvs> during apt install
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• 2780[23:19:34] <`ajven> how it should looks than? sudo apt-install -t stretch-backports ?
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• 2783[23:20:23] <dvs> `ajven, add "-t stretch-backports" after the install in the command you pasted.
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• 2786[23:20:44] <`ajven> sudo apt install linux-headers-$(uname -r) -t stretch-backports
• 2787[23:20:56] <`ajven> same resoult
• 2788[23:21:29] <dvs> that's not after the "install", that's after the linux-headers-...
• 2789[23:22:19] <`ajven> ok so - sudo apt install -t stretch-backports linux-headers-$(uname -r)
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• 2791[23:23:22] <`ajven> but got same resoult
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• 2795[23:24:55] <jmcnaught> can confirm, linux-headers-4.19.0-0.bpo.4-amd64 is not in stretch-backports even though linux-image-4.19.0-0.bpo.4-amd64 is
• 2796[23:25:35] <`ajven> Yea, but why than workstation is asking for that and how to intall it :D
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• 2798[23:26:43] <dvs> bpo.4 is no longer available
• 2799[23:26:50] <dvs> for heades
• 2800[23:26:52] <dvs> headers
• 2801[23:27:13] <jmcnaught> it's probably a mistake
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• 2805[23:28:00] <`ajven> well, possible but what to do now
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• 2808[23:28:45] <jmcnaught> `ajven: you could write the debian-backports mailing list to report the problem: replaced-url
• 2809[23:29:18] <dvs> there are bpo.5 linux-image packages though
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• 2811[23:29:32] <`ajven> but I installed kernel 4.9 and it was still asking me for that version of kernel
• 2812[23:29:53] <`ajven> dvs, yes I was trying to install it but also it was not covering that
• 2813[23:29:56] <jmcnaught> there also seems to be a linux-image-4.19.0-0.bpo.5-amd64-unsigned package with a matching headers package, but linux-image-amd64 doesn't depend on it, and I don't know what the unsigned means
• 2814[23:30:10] <dvs> `ajven, sudo apt install -t stretch-backports linux-image-amd64 linux-headers-amd64
• 2815[23:30:21] <dvs> if you're using amd64
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• 2817[23:31:18] <`ajven> replaced-url
• 2818[23:31:32] <`ajven> linux-headers-amd64 : Depends: linux-headers-4.19.0-0.bpo.4-amd64 but it is not installable
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• 2821[23:32:22] <dvs> yeah, do what jmcnaught says. There's a mismatch between the linux-headers and linux-image packages
• 2822[23:34:34] <`ajven> so what I can do now?
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• 2825[23:36:52] <dvs> <jmcnaught> `ajven: you could write the debian-backports mailing list to report the problem: replaced-url
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• 2827[23:37:29] <`ajven> dvs, I answer on that, 4.9 kernel change nothing, workstation is stil askin for 4.19.0-0.bpo.4-amd64
• 2828[23:38:03] <jmcnaught> `ajven: you need to boot the 4.9 kernel and have the 4.9 headers installed
• 2829[23:38:27] <`ajven> yes thats obvious :) ok one moment let me do that I will show you :P
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