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• 16[00:09:17] <hexadecimal> computer: what is package update? did you mean apt-get?
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• 19[00:11:21] <user1234> Where can I see how many users Debian has?
• 20[00:11:34] <cobalt-red> user1234: as in, on your server?
• 21[00:11:49] <cobalt-red> "w" works pretty well.
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• 24[00:12:10] <cobalt-red> it would tell you who everyone is and what they're doing.
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• 28[00:12:41] <petemc> getent passwd
• 29[00:12:45] <user1234> cobalt-red: No, how many users who have installed Debian on their computer, or how many are updating Debian (downloading security updates) -- is there no such page?
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• 33[00:13:16] <DoctorD90> hello!! Im going to sleep..so maybe I will read tomorrow the answer if anyone knows it: I have 150MB. I would like to create an iso file (dd if=/dev/zero of=test.iso bs=1k count=$XXX && mkfs.ext4 test.iso) with an ext4 filesystem, that can contain 150MB...my "doubt" is the space required for ext4 filesystem...how may calculate the total? or better, the space required from ext4? total=EXT4+150MB ??
• 34[00:13:19] <petemc> user1234: thats not available, not should it be
• 35[00:13:26] <petemc> nor
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• 37[00:13:49] <DoctorD90> or..just that Im ...total=LUKS+ext4+150MB ? ...
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• 39[00:14:12] <awal1> user1234, why you are interested on that?
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• 41[00:14:16] <petemc> iso cant be ext4
• 42[00:14:32] <cobalt-red> user1234: no.
• 43[00:14:48] <DoctorD90> petemc, sorry. I use ISO improperly. I mean blockdevice :)
• 44[00:14:55] <petemc> ok
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• 46[00:15:46] <ThoughtDispenser> DoctorD90: Do you also count space for metadata?
• 47[00:15:52] <petemc> ext4 overhead probably easily searched
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• 50[00:16:14] <DoctorD90> user1234, replaced-url
• 51[00:16:20] <awal1> around 7 billions people in the world, user1234, like 6 billions uses debian :P
• 52[00:16:39] <DoctorD90> Just googled now :) maybe is what you are looking for :)
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• 54[00:17:07] <DoctorD90> awal1, 1billions the other? XD ...pretty too much belong to me :P
• 55[00:17:14] <DoctorD90> ThoughtDispenser, I havent gotcha :)
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• 57[00:18:05] <peterrooney> user1234: there is no requirement to report to anyone if I install debian on one machine or one thousand in my home or in my workplace, and there's no way for anyone outside to know.
• 58[00:18:54] <DoctorD90> ThoughtDispenser, petemc with du -hs FOLDER, I gotcha the space of folder (let's say 150MB). How many large should I do a blockdevice to use LUKSwith ext4 inside LUKS to get the (more or less)('more') of 150MB of free space?
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• 60[00:19:32] <peterrooney> user1234: it's common in larger organizations to have one machine grab the updates for all other machines.
• 61[00:19:40] <awal1> DoctorD90, :P I just don't understand why that guy is interested in such statistics; sounds like weird for me...
• 62[00:20:01] <ThoughtDispenser> DoctorD90: I don't really know the exact amount, I just pointed out you need to also count space for metadata
• 63[00:20:26] <DoctorD90> awal1, ah ok xD it was a simply joke xD I thougth it was a "debian rocks" :P btw...I understand..maybe same research :)
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• 65[00:20:44] <DoctorD90> and metadata would be ? (for example?)
• 66[00:20:46] <ThoughtDispenser> DoctorD90: Btrfs gives pretty good info when creating FS, but ext4 I dunno
• 67[00:20:55] <ThoughtDispenser> DoctorD90: like modification date
• 68[00:20:59] <DoctorD90> uhm....
• 69[00:21:04] <DoctorD90> ah! gotcha
• 70[00:21:19] <DoctorD90> but im on a ext4. du should not count it too?
• 71[00:21:34] <ThoughtDispenser> Du should not count it, AFAIK
• 72[00:22:22] <DoctorD90> .....or maybe not...my download folder is 158gb according to du, against 167gb of nautilus...or any kind of name has the default window manager of gnome..i forgot it..
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• 74[00:22:35] <DoctorD90> uhm...this is a problem...uff...
• 75[00:22:44] <ThoughtDispenser> DoctorD90: well, that may be different issue Mib vs MB
• 76[00:22:52] <ThoughtDispenser> DoctorD90: MiB vs MB *
• 77[00:23:15] <DoctorD90> ThoughtDispenser, no....just tested...divided for 1000 and 1024...they dismatch...
• 78[00:23:24] <mtcj_> I use apt-cache-ng and am pretty happy with it
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• 80[00:23:55] <ThoughtDispenser> DoctorD90: Ok, I think you can tweak ext4 when creating FS, how big the space for metadata should be
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• 82[00:24:02] <ThoughtDispenser> DoctorD90: Thats all I know
• 83[00:24:46] <DoctorD90> ThoughtDispenser, thx :) but this would be of great help unfortunatly :( ...i should find out another way to accomplish my task :)
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• 86[00:25:20] <ThoughtDispenser> DoctorD90: try "man mkfs.ext4"
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• 88[00:25:45] <DoctorD90> yea....probably it is the only one choose...I hoped in 1 ext4-guru online :P
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• 91[00:27:11] <ThoughtDispenser> Hello everyone, how can I configure postfix MTA to bounce for non-existing users but still keep the message?
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• 106[00:33:16] <Howdy> Folks, running Debian 8/xen & in I have windows 10 vm I access thru VNC but I cannot set the resolution in windows more then 1280 x 1024
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• 109[00:33:44] <Howdy> & in it I have windows 10 VM...*correction*
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• 111[00:33:55] <Howdy> any ideas?
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• 132[00:46:58] <dStruct> anyone here have Cuda working with something close to a nVidia GT218M/NVS3100 ?
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• 138[00:50:30] <sn0wmonster> what's a good MySQL client to use?
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• 140[00:50:49] <sn0wmonster> I am very comfortable with PHPMyAdmin but i don't want to run a webserver on the host machine just for that purpose
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• 143[00:51:36] <dStruct> sn0wmonster: so run it remotely, it's safer that way?
• 144[00:51:59] <sn0wmonster> so have PHPMyAdmin connect to a remote machine basically?
• 145[00:52:08] <sn0wmonster> Me > PHPMyAdmin server > SQL server?
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• 149[00:53:30] <winsen> hi all
• 150[00:53:32] <dStruct> sn0wmonster: yes, there are multiple ways of going about it, VPN, SSH, etc depending on how you want to connect but it's not too complicated to do
• 151[00:53:45] <sn0wmonster> great
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• 153[00:54:13] <dStruct> sn0wmonster: you do still have to run a webserver but it doesn't have to be on the SQL production box
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• 155[00:54:42] <Howdy> guys how do I get my windows 10 VM to run full screen / full res ?
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• 157[00:54:53] <Howdy> running Debian 8
• 158[00:54:55] <Howdy> with xen
• 159[00:55:24] <dStruct> sn0wmonster: in my setups I would typically do (master webserver + phpmyadmin) <-> (db master) <-> (reverse proxy/cache frontends) <-> (firewalls)
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• 161[00:55:44] <sn0wmonster> that sounds pretty good for me too, thanks mate
• 162[00:55:51] <dStruct> sn0wmonster: anytime, good luck
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• 165[00:56:51] <Howdy> Is there good easy guide for pci pass thru using xen /debian 8?
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• 216[01:28:14] <bmomjian> I just mkfs'ed my root partition and on boot I see this error, though it still boots: fsck error 2 no such file or directory while executing fsck.ext4
• 217[01:28:33] <bmomjian> any idea on the cause? the UUID if the file system changed but I updated /etc/fstab
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• 223[01:30:19] <bmomjian> I changed the file system type from ext3 to ext4 and updated fstab too
• 224[01:30:20] <nkuttler> bmomjian: you created a new root filesystem? did you copy over all files?
• 225[01:30:20] <tomreyn> bmomjian: fsck.ext4, the ext4 file system check utility, would have been called during boot to ensure the file system is in a consistent state.
• 226[01:30:54] <bmomjian> right, and I see the output of fsck on the device _below_ it, but I still see that error line
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• 228[01:31:02] <bmomjian> yes, I coped over all the files
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• 230[01:31:28] <bmomjian> The steps are here: replaced-url
• 231[01:31:38] <bmomjian> boots fine, which is good. :-)
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• 234[01:31:45] <bmomjian> obviously something else needs changing
• 235[01:31:49] <bmomjian> I updated /etc/blkid
• 236[01:32:18] <tomreyn> mount /mnt/root /dev/sda1
• 237[01:32:18] <tomreyn> mount /mnt/archive /dev/sdb1
• 238[01:32:27] <tomreyn> ^ wrong order isnt it
• 239[01:32:39] <bmomjian> uh, didn't matter
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• 242[01:33:28] <bmomjian> this is a boot error I am seeing; If I do fsck -n /dev/sda1, it works fine
• 243[01:33:36] <bmomjian> though does nothing because it is mounted and I used -n
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• 247[01:34:27] <bmomjian> actually, it looks like this: replaced-url
• 248[01:34:29] <bmomjian> reading now
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• 251[01:35:38] <Howdy> Guys, I am kinda lost & googling is not helping
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• 253[01:35:57] <bmomjian> I found the error: replaced-url
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• 255[01:36:10] <Howdy> I am accessing my windows 10 VM thru Qemu/vnc & cannot full screen is there a easy fix?
• 256[01:36:12] <bmomjian> so that is what I see on boot
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• 268[01:40:23] <winsen> Where can I see if old version are still in life span? thanks
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• 271[01:42:25] <bmomjian> I put my fstab and blkid output here too: replaced-url
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• 274[01:43:54] <winsen> Is wheezy still stable or not?
• 275[01:44:19] <missmbob> no. jessie is
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• 289[01:56:24] <RoyK> winsen: wheezy is oldstable - works well, long term supported until may 2018, but I'd recommend jessie
• 290[01:56:55] <RoyK> WinstonSmith: replaced-url
• 291[01:57:09] <missmbob> you missed him
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• 296[02:03:09] <bmomjian> I am trying update-initramfs -u now
• 297[02:03:16] <bmomjian> based on this: replaced-url
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• 300[02:03:51] <bmomjian> hopefully the server will still boot
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• 302[02:04:07] <bmomjian> should I try rebooting now?
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• 304[02:04:14] <SarD_> hi
• 305[02:04:26] <SarD_> is it possible to get a deb package from a go binary ?
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• 308[02:05:13] <missmbob> i doubt anyone understood that
• 309[02:05:15] <missmbob> !es
• 310[02:05:15] <dpkg> Este canal es de soporte técnico en Inglés para Debian. Si prefiere que el soporte sea en Español, puede ingresar en #debian-es tecleando /join #debian-es en la línea de chat.
• 311[02:05:17] <bmomjian> it kind of makes sense as the error message was stored in /run/initramfs/fsck.log
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• 316[02:07:42] <seoneal97> Sup, fellers.
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• 351[02:28:45] <nightdemon666> knock knock, anybody there?
• 352[02:29:01] <bazhang> yes
• 353[02:29:23] <nightdemon666> sweet, ready to answer a question bazhang?
• 354[02:29:37] <bazhang> thats a question
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• 356[02:29:59] <bazhang> ask the real one
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• 358[02:30:39] <nightdemon666> ha ha, i do have a question for you bazhang, im trying to get a dreamcast game running on nulldc running on wine on kali linux. its complaining about a libGL.so.1 file that it cant find
• 359[02:30:41] <nightdemon666> need help
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• 361[02:30:57] <missmbob> !kali
• 362[02:30:57] <dpkg> Kali Linux (replaced-url
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• 364[02:31:04] <missmbob> nightdemon666: wrong place. go there ^
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• 366[02:31:26] <nightdemon666> im woondering if i can symlink the lib.so.1 file form /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu to somewhere where nulldc is looking for it... maybe that would work?
• 367[02:31:35] <bazhang> #winehq as well nightdemon666
• 368[02:32:16] <nightdemon666> ok, perhaps i should join the winehq channel
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• 371[02:33:13] <seoneal97> qui
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• 380[02:36:59] <sunny1208> Hi :-)
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• 383[02:37:23] <sunny1208> is their any command like top just to watch network in-out?
• 384[02:37:33] <nightdemon666> iftop
• 385[02:37:58] <sunny1208> nope
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• 387[02:38:52] <sunny1208> hmm
• 388[02:39:08] <sunny1208> it nervs me since ... month
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• 390[02:39:21] <tx> yes
• 391[02:39:21] <tx> iftop
• 392[02:39:24] <missmbob> how is iftop not what you described as wanting?
• 393[02:40:21] <nightdemon666> i was pretty sure iftop was the number one answer
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• 406[02:45:06] <RoyK> nightdemon666: or good old iptraf
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• 456[03:10:53] <SarD_> I'm trying to get a deb package from a go compiled binary, is dh-golang the tool recommendable for that?
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• 458[03:13:37] <climjark> is it bad that i cant seem to find a desktop enviornment that i enjoy?
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• 462[03:15:16] <missmbob> it's not uncommon. if you need one pick the one you hate least.
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• 485[03:24:31] <kingkong> what can i use to edit swf files on wheezy?
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• 487[03:26:11] <bazhang> kingkong, re enocde it first
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• 490[03:26:58] <bazhang> ,v handbrake
• 491[03:26:59] <judd> Package: handbrake on amd64 -- wheezy-multimedia: 0.9.8+git20121007-dmo7; wheezy-backports: 0.9.9+dfsg-2~2.gbpa4c3e9~bpo70+1; jessie: 0.9.9+svn6422+dfsg1-2; stretch: 0.10.5+ds1-2; sid: 0.10.5+ds1-2+b1; jessie-multimedia: 1:0.10.1-dmo3+1; sid-multimedia: 1:0.10.5-dmo3
• 492[03:26:59] <kingkong> encode will not ruin the file?
• 493[03:27:12] <bazhang> no
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• 495[03:27:47] <bazhang> handbbrak is the nice gui way to do it, ffmpeg is the cli
• 496[03:28:40] <kingkong> im on ssh. i will install handbreak
• 497[03:28:45] <kingkong> thx
• 498[03:29:01] <kingkong> how's swfmill?
• 499[03:29:42] <kingkong> i found it on some ubuntu response on web, maybe Debian has it too
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• 501[03:29:54] <bazhang> not good at all
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• 503[03:30:02] <bazhang> dont even bother
• 504[03:30:37] <bazhang> it's brake not break
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• 507[03:31:20] <kingkong> ah ok thanks. :d
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• 510[03:33:26] <Je55ie> hi there, why I can't find kernel 4.4.0 on kernel.org...
• 511[03:33:41] <Je55ie> 4.3 4.4.1 4.4.2
• 512[03:33:51] <Je55ie> 4.4.0 not found
• 513[03:34:15] <bazhang> why look there
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• 515[03:34:30] <bazhang> thats not how you get kernels in debian
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• 517[03:35:14] <kingkong> bazhang: i tried to install it but i got errors. replaced-url
• 518[03:35:30] <missmbob> Je55ie: jessie-backports has 4.6 if that's what you want. replaced-url
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• 520[03:36:07] <missmbob> ah deb-multimedia breakage
• 521[03:36:08] <bazhang> kingkong, install from where, using what command
• 522[03:36:10] <kingkong> its installed probably but dependencies couldnt? errors meaning that?
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• 525[03:37:19] <kingkong> bazhang: i copied on my paste link. apt-get install
• 526[03:37:33] <kingkong> as root
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• 531[03:38:30] <Je55ie> missmbob: no, I'd like to compile the old kernel not latest one
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• 533[03:39:08] <missmbob> Je55ie: so what's your problem? replaced-url
• 534[03:39:39] <missmbob> Je55ie: see this as well replaced-url
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• 538[03:41:26] <Je55ie> missmbob: I got a kernel config , and that's 4.4.0, so I think maybe 4.4.0 is good, I'm newbie about compiling kernel
• 539[03:41:49] <missmbob> Je55ie: so read the handbook guide i linked you to
• 540[03:41:54] <Je55ie> missmbob: what file `make menuconfig` will make?
• 541[03:42:07] <missmbob> eventually .config
• 542[03:42:12] <Je55ie> ok
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• 544[03:43:03] <Je55ie> download the same version kernel code, and mv the config file to .config
• 545[03:43:18] <missmbob> sure. then make oldconfig
• 546[03:43:19] <Je55ie> that should be no problem I think
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• 548[03:44:39] <Je55ie> missmbob: make oldconfig is necessary? if I got the .config from others
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• 550[03:44:57] <missmbob> yes
• 551[03:45:01] <Je55ie> make oldconfig will read the current system's config ?
• 552[03:45:52] <missmbob> no. it'll read the .config you copied. and if there are any needed changes it'll warn you
• 553[03:46:16] <Je55ie> missmbob: ok, I see, thanks
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• 558[03:50:02] <Je55ie> missmbob: when the compiling is done, do I need copy all the stuff to another PC for installing kernel and modules in that PC?
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• 560[03:50:19] <Je55ie> or just copy kernel and modules files will be ok?
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• 562[03:50:26] <missmbob> Je55ie: no. you read the guide i sent you.
• 563[03:50:39] <Je55ie> ok
• 564[03:50:43] <missmbob> it'll make the kernel into a deb package
• 565[03:50:52] <missmbob> then copy that and dpkg -i foo.deb
• 566[03:51:31] <Je55ie> I mean there's a common way? not just for debian, I mean one way can work on most distro
• 567[03:51:35] <Je55ie> s
• 568[03:52:09] <missmbob> sure. pain in the ass and i only support debian. you can ask ##linux to walk you through the non-debian way
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• 571[03:52:45] <Je55ie> 'pain in the ass'...
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• 576[03:53:55] <Je55ie> compile kernel is really killing time and machine
• 577[03:54:14] <missmbob> and it's usually completely pointless
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• 580[03:55:32] <Je55ie> yes, it is. but I got some devices that common kernel don't recogniz, that make me have to compile it
• 581[03:57:49] <Je55ie> what's the kernel version on debian stable? mine is 3.16...
• 582[03:58:00] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1675
• 583[03:58:17] <missmbob> that's what it is unless you use jessie-backports which has 4.6
• 584[03:58:22] <Je55ie> I installed jessie half a year ago, it's 3.16
• 585[03:58:39] <missmbob> that's because once stable nothing changes but security and serious bug fixes
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• 588[03:58:59] <missmbob> thus the jessie-backports offer for those who need something newer
• 589[03:59:17] <Je55ie> but I heard 3.xxx have lots of problems
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• 591[03:59:34] <Je55ie> special power stuff
• 592[03:59:42] <missmbob> it does. again, thus backports
• 593[03:59:56] <Je55ie> ...
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• 595[04:00:25] <missmbob> fucking destroy your btrfs too if you're not careful
• 596[04:00:50] <Je55ie> lol, I don't use btrfs
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• 632[04:23:56] <ordinate> something weird happened
• 633[04:24:25] <ordinate> i installed 8.5 on my comp on a seperate partition
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• 635[04:24:30] <ordinate> and i booted into GRUB
• 636[04:24:38] <ordinate> and windows boot manager was gone
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• 704[05:20:46] <bmomjian> FYI, the update-initramfs -u fixed the boot error message.
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• 708[05:23:27] <ordinate> thanks
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• 721[05:31:32] <prettysox> replaced-url
• 722[05:32:00] <themill> prettysox: still the wrong channel
• 723[05:32:02] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o themill
• 724[05:32:04] *** themill sets mode: +b *!*@89.238.166.235
• 725[05:32:06] *** prettysox was kicked by themill (On the Internet nobody can hear you being subtle.)
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• 729[05:33:02] <ordinate> well that just sorta happened
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• 742[05:38:20] <win32user> Hi, i am trying to get debian but every link i find CD 1 of 12
• 743[05:38:29] <win32user> i dont want to burn 12 cds for 1 OS :s
• 744[05:38:32] <ordinate> go to the official website
• 745[05:38:33] *** Quits: Hink (~Hink@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 746[05:38:37] <ordinate> and use a usb stick instead
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• 748[05:38:58] <win32user> with 13isos?
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• 750[05:39:15] <ordinate> no just the one
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• 752[05:39:24] <themill> win32user: you only need CD1 just like the documentation and the download pages say
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• 759[05:44:54] <win32user> which one should i get for virtualbox 64bit
• 760[05:44:58] <win32user> i so confusion :(
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• 762[05:45:09] <ordinate> amd64
• 763[05:45:30] <win32user> just cd1?
• 764[05:45:51] <ordinate> yeah
• 765[05:47:17] <jmcnaught> win32user: during the installation you will configure a network mirror of the Debian archive, so packages can be downloaded on the fly. you only need more than one disc if the computer doesn't have networking
• 766[05:47:48] <win32user> thanks that makes little more sense
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• 768[05:48:04] <jmcnaught> win32user: the install manual is pretty great too by the way: replaced-url
• 769[05:48:18] <win32user> and dvd1 would obviously have alot more than cd1 which in turn wouldnt need to download as much?
• 770[05:48:45] <jmcnaught> win32user: most people use the ~250 MB netinst image
• 771[05:48:49] <win32user> thanks jmcnaught i have installed linux before (debian too) but a LOOONG time ago, just didnt know why there wouldve been soo many iso lol
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• 775[05:49:57] <jmcnaught> win32user: at the very least look at the table of contents for the install manual, so you know where to look if you don't understand something in the installer
• 776[05:51:45] <sunny1208> mine internet socks
• 777[05:52:22] <sunny1208> and i M AN ASHOLE
• 778[05:52:32] <sunny1208> so I ask
• 779[05:52:47] <sunny1208> besides if I can love monsterman
• 780[05:53:03] <sunny1208> why is the linux coumminity so enemy?
• 781[05:53:42] *** Quits: Bob8989 (~bobby12@replaced-ip##) (Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia ##replaced-url
• 782[05:53:48] <sunny1208> I m real anewbie in this questions
• 783[05:53:58] <sunny1208> I love peace
• 784[05:54:07] <sunny1208> and planet
• 785[05:54:09] *** Quits: monoxane (~monoxane@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 786[05:54:18] <sunny1208> but I m no crazy activist
• 787[05:54:24] <sunny1208> maybe lol*
• 788[05:54:27] <sunny1208> again
• 789[05:54:41] <sunny1208> why is the Linux community that devila nad hell?
• 790[05:54:55] <jmcnaught> sunny1208: perhaps you are looking for ##chat? or do you have a Debian technical question?
• 791[05:55:30] <sunny1208> yes
• 792[05:55:32] *** Joins: beatdown (beatdown@replaced-ip)
• 793[05:55:51] <sunny1208> is it possibel to ad xrandr command static
• 794[05:56:00] *** Quits: TheCoffeMaker (~TheCoffeM@replaced-ip) (Quit: Saliendo)
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• 796[05:56:05] <sunny1208> so at new boot screens are cool?
• 797[05:56:52] <sunny1208> I googlet a lot
• 798[05:56:52] <sunny1208> I goz almosz no friends
• 799[05:57:05] <beatdown> Heh
• 800[05:57:26] <sunny1208> and I read RTFM
• 801[05:57:26] <sunny1208> Dont you know mine name?
• 802[05:57:47] <sunny1208> I love David Bowie
• 803[05:57:47] <sunny1208> NO Sorry lol*
• 804[05:57:57] <sunny1208> so what is with xrandr?
• 805[05:58:04] <sunny1208> Debian 8.0?
• 806[05:58:05] *** Quits: crazyhound (~mch@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 807[05:58:29] <sunny1208> and hunters
• 808[05:58:41] <sunny1208> no way!
• 809[05:58:59] *** Quits: eclipsespark (~Icedove@replaced-ip) (Quit: eclipsespark)
• 810[05:59:01] <sunny1208> I life in the woods
• 811[05:59:02] *** Quits: crucialhead (~crucialhe@replaced-ip) (Quit: crucialhead)
• 812[05:59:04] <sunny1208> love it
• 813[05:59:19] <jmcnaught> sunny1208: if you need help with xrandr then please ask a detailed question so that people can help you. Also please keep on the topic of Debian technical support.
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• 815[05:59:22] <sunny1208> mine I net ist most time shit sorry
• 816[05:59:37] <sunny1208> socketguru
• 817[05:59:51] <beatdown> Is this dude wasted?
• 818[05:59:53] <sunny1208> sorry
• 819[06:00:02] <sunny1208> I talk native kind of german#
• 820[06:00:19] <sunny1208> no this dude
• 821[06:00:23] <sunny1208> got time
• 822[06:00:33] <sunny1208> maybe
• 823[06:01:02] <sunny1208> sorry off topic
• 824[06:01:07] <sunny1208> peace people
• 825[06:01:10] *** Quits: RTFM[away] (~RTFMaway]@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 826[06:02:15] <sunny1208> Im 75 years
• 827[06:02:23] <sunny1208> and I say what I want
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• 831[06:02:54] <sunny1208> Most times :-)
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• 835[06:03:28] <ordinate> shhh
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• 934[07:21:59] <Drzacek> Hi. I have few questions about LiveCDs. What are the main differences between liveCD and a system I get with normal install? Is the live OS somehow lesser/restricted?
• 935[07:22:22] <iKarith> This is relevant to my interests. :)
• 936[07:22:28] <missmbob> live cd is a pain in the ass. no uefi support. regular has it
• 937[07:23:45] <iKarith> Drzacek: There's a few things. First of all, a live installation has to run from a read-only filesystem. That creates a number of challenges, but the ways of dealing with them are fairly well known at this point.
• 938[07:24:53] <Drzacek> iKarith, oh, why is that? I thought I could burn it to pendrive
• 939[07:25:17] <somiaj> iKarith: a live cd runs in ram (since a cd doesn't have read/write privlages). This has some advantanges compared to a traditional install.
• 940[07:25:25] <somiaj> Drzacek: ^^
• 941[07:25:29] <somiaj> iKarith: bad tab completion.
• 942[07:25:37] <iKarith> Drzacek: Second, you normally would run through the Debian installer and make a bunch of choices about where files go, what packages to install, how to configure the system, timezones, keyboard and language settings, etc. All done with the installer normally, but on a live system it's got to either detect stuff or have reasonable defaults.
• 943[07:25:41] <Drzacek> Oh, thats a bummer. So I can't use that thing.
• 944[07:26:03] <iKarith> Drzacek: You can, but a live system was meant originally for CD and later DVD, so it's still built the same way.
• 945[07:26:33] <Drzacek> well, my real question/problem is - how to get debian installed to CF card and make it bootable
• 946[07:26:56] <jelly> Drzacek: first, can your hardware boot from CF at all?
• 947[07:27:01] <iKarith> Drzacek: You can also install Debian to an external device the old fashioned way, and even set it up to do some of the auto-detection stuff so it's portable, but being properly installed to a read-write media.
• 948[07:27:03] <Drzacek> Since I tried installing few times already (with different partitioning) without success, I thought about alternatives like Live image
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• 950[07:27:36] <Drzacek> jelly, I wrote the install iso (first netinstall, then normal DVD iso) to CF card and the installation started from CF nicely
• 951[07:28:02] <missmbob> how did you write the iso?
• 952[07:29:03] <Drzacek> dd
• 953[07:29:28] <iKarith> The reason why Debian live stuff is relevant to my interests is that a project I've taken over works with Debian virtualbox appliances. The project previously just went through the effort of installing Debian on that and then customized the VM with our stuff. Consequently, we did the same thing for Raspbian because the stuff can also be run on a Raspberry Pi, with the added step that we would then cook the
• 954[07:29:30] <jelly> Drzacek: that means it may be booting as a hard disk, or it may be booting in cd emulation mode
• 955[07:29:31] <iKarith> installed system a little and rebuild a NOOBS OS bundle for idiot-proof installation.
• 956[07:30:25] <iKarith> As I take this project over, I discover that the Raspberry Pi folks are now sharing their build scripts with the world which will make our job easier, and the process is very much like how you build a Debian live image.
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• 958[07:30:40] <iKarith> So: Relevant to my interests. :)
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• 960[07:31:59] <jelly> Drzacek: one thing to note is you _can't_ install to the same device you booted the installer from
• 961[07:32:14] <jelly> (at least, not with debian-installer itself)
• 962[07:32:17] <Drzacek> jelly, it was somehow obvious to me
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• 970[07:35:10] <Drzacek> I don't think that standard, normal installation to cf card/pendrive is enough. Shouldn't there be some extra steps to make it bootable?
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• 973[07:35:40] <brallan> Hi guys. I am trying to set my default Japanese font but I can not. I use this file replaced-url
• 974[07:36:01] <iKarith> The process (and it's one you might use yourself depending on what you're ultimately trying to accomplish) is basically that you use debootstrap to build a minimal base chroot (essentially base.tgz unpacked), and then you have a bunch of run-parts-type files defining what you do to turn it into a working system from there. You need to create users, set defaults that're done by the installer usually, install
• 975[07:36:04] <iKarith> things like a kernel and a bootloader, drivers, and whatever non-base packages you want. There's a couple of files you probably want to patch, etc. You don't quite use run-parts to do it because one file will contain a list of packages to install at this stage (possibly ignoring recommends to keep the live system small), another will be a script to run that generates some file. Another might be patches to
• 976[07:36:05] <iKarith> apply to files. Another might be fed to debconf-set-selections, etc. All in layers. Quite elegant actually.
• 977[07:36:09] <missmbob> goddamn
• 978[07:37:14] <jelly> Drzacek: the installer is supposed to write a boot loader to the install disk. Can your firmware successfully pass control to THAT boot loader? I don't know
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• 980[07:37:36] <jelly> Drzacek: how does a normal installation fail for you?
• 981[07:38:00] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1671
• 982[07:38:00] <iKarith> TL;DR: Aside from the read-only filesystem run from RAM and possibly deltas saved to writable disk, it's a hand-assembled system with exactly what you want and nothing you don't that has to be pretty tolerant of whatever hardware you want to throw it at.
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• 985[07:38:50] <Drzacek> Well, the installation goes fine, it asks me to install grub to MBR, I refuse and say to install it to my cf card, reboote, remove the install medium, set in BIOS to boot from my debian-cf card - black screen, cursor blinking in topleft corner, waited 1hour then gave up
• 986[07:39:10] <jelly> Drzacek: why do you not put it into the mbr of the CF card?
• 987[07:39:27] <jelly> is the card partitioned?
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• 989[07:40:08] <Drzacek> I assumed it wanted to install to HDD mbr
• 990[07:40:22] <iKarith> Drzacek: Your USB stick is a HDD as far as the system is concerned.
• 991[07:40:52] <Drzacek> true dat
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• 993[07:41:14] <Drzacek> I have other (REAL) hdd on that PC, with windows and other systems
• 994[07:41:26] <Drzacek> I was sure it meant mbr on that disk
• 995[07:41:36] <Drzacek> damn, gonna have to try again
• 996[07:41:57] <jelly> Drzacek: you could unplug that disk for the duration of debian install
• 997[07:42:02] <iKarith> If you're working with a USB 3 host and stick, it shouldn't be too bad.
• 998[07:42:40] <jelly> somehow "cf card" makes me think 2002 hardware, not 2013 hw bootable over usb3
• 999[07:43:07] <Drzacek> yeah, usb3.0 host, but card reader 2.0
• 1000[07:45:14] <iKarith> Unless you're dealing with an older Mac, jelly's suggestion makes sense. You can put Linux on an external drive on a Mac, but grub has to be installed to the internal drive unless you've got the system booting Linux from EFI, and older Macs tended to have NV hardware that doesn't work with that very well. May not still today, I dunno.
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• 1004[07:46:15] <iKarith> jelly: 2002 hardware today I WOULD boot off CF card, connected straight to the IDE connector with an adapter sled. :)
• 1005[07:46:17] <jelly> iKarith: they did state they were able to boot the installer itself from that cf card.
• 1006[07:48:36] <iKarith> Runs pretty quick that way. I use SanDisk CFs for that and leave the last 10% unpartitioned completely. And when the amount of unpartitioned free space starts shrinking, I start thinking about a new CF card. Recent generation SanDisk flash devices are nice about such things. :)
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• 1016[07:51:43] <Drzacek> iKarith, target system has IDE cf-card reader
• 1017[07:51:58] <Drzacek> unless we find SATA cf-reader :D
• 1018[07:52:37] <iKarith> They exist. More likely to find a SATA SD adapter though.
• 1019[07:53:01] <iKarith> SATA to CF is basically a SATA-IDE bridge chip wired up to the CF slot.
• 1020[07:53:25] <iKarith> The SD adapters are slightly more interesting special-purpose devices.
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• 1024[07:57:03] <lindylex> What is the trick for automating Debian to download all the dependencies a package needs?
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• 1026[07:57:31] <jelly> lindylex: the usual "apt-get install something" does that by default
• 1027[07:57:43] <Drzacek> iKarith, well, the standard is CF, and we used them for years, no need to change that
• 1028[07:57:43] <lindylex> No I am building it from source.
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• 1030[07:57:51] <missmbob> apt-get build-dep foo
• 1031[07:57:54] <jelly> lindylex: building what from source?
• 1032[07:57:59] <lindylex> mpd
• 1033[07:58:15] <jelly> ,v mpd
• 1034[07:58:17] <judd> Package: mpd on amd64 -- wheezy: 0.16.7-2+b1; wheezy-backports: 0.17.6-1~bpo70+1; jessie: 0.19.1-1.1; jessie-backports: 0.19.12-1~bpo8+1; sid: 0.19.18-1; stretch: 0.19.18-1; jessie-multimedia: 1:0.19.9-dmo2; sid-multimedia: 1:0.19.19-dmo1
• 1035[07:58:38] <jelly> support 0.19.12 isn't fresh enough for you?
• 1036[07:58:41] <missmbob> lindylex: i've done it for you already. replaced-url
• 1037[07:58:44] <jelly> suppose*
• 1038[07:58:47] <lindylex> I am on stretch and need 0.19.19
• 1039[07:59:10] <jelly> lindylex: I'd use uupdate and rebuild the package.
• 1040[07:59:15] <jelly> !uupdate
• 1041[07:59:15] <dpkg> uupdate (in the <devscripts> package) upgrades a source code package from an upstream revision, or e.g. if the newest foo in debian is 1.2, and upstream is at 1.4: apt-get source foo; wget -nd replaced-url
• 1042[07:59:20] <jelly> !package rebuild
• 1043[07:59:20] <dpkg> 1) Add a <deb-src> line for your current release to your sources.list 2) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential devscripts fakeroot; aptitude -R build-dep packagename 3) as any user, apt-get source packagename 4) cd packagename-version/; ask me about <debian/rules>; 5) dpkg-buildpackage -uc -us 6) as root, dpkg -i ../packagename-version.deb. Ask me about <debian/rules>, <nocheck>, <nostrip>, <apt-get source>.
• 1044[07:59:48] <jelly> lindylex: uupdate goes after step 4) in the rebuild recipe
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• 1050[08:01:44] <lindylex> I am confused. Will this get me version 0.19.19?
• 1051[08:02:45] <iKarith> lindylex: That's the idea.
• 1052[08:02:49] <lindylex> O
• 1053[08:02:51] <lindylex> Ok
• 1054[08:03:31] <jelly> lindylex: this gets you a deb package of latest upstream tarball you downloaded, if it's successful
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• 1057[08:04:54] <jelly> missmbob: mpd not mpv
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• 1059[08:04:55] <lindylex> First I have to add <deb-src> to /etc/apt/sources.list
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• 1061[08:05:26] <jelly> lindylex: read /msg dpkg deb-src
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• 1075[08:11:56] <Drzacek> Hmmm. Can I install debian to virtual machine and then dd that virtual hdd to cf/sd card?
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• 1077[08:12:08] <jelly> Drzacek: sure why not
• 1078[08:12:31] <klys> it would change the geometry
• 1079[08:12:37] <Drzacek> I have a feeling that this way the installation would go faster
• 1080[08:12:38] <jelly> or you could install the damn boot loader when d-i asks you to
• 1081[08:13:09] <jelly> or you could install it right now if that installation w/o boot loader is still in place
• 1082[08:13:14] <klys> if all you want is grub then the tool is grub-install
• 1083[08:13:18] <Drzacek> :( that's what I wanted to try now, but looks like this computer doesn't want to boot from any USB thing
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• 1085[08:13:55] <jelly> klys: the geometry doesn't really matter these days, just the size
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• 1088[08:14:35] <Drzacek> Okay, I have my cf card with debian installed. How can I install bootloader to mbr now?
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• 1090[08:15:17] <klys> grub-install /dev/mmcblk0
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• 1092[08:15:38] <klys> first edit /boot/grub/devices.map
• 1093[08:15:49] <klys> then do that
• 1094[08:16:02] <klys> then reboot
• 1095[08:16:55] <Drzacek> I attached cf card to my debian machine, it shows up as /dev/sdb
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• 1098[08:17:30] <Drzacek> If I run "grub-install", would it look for /boot on host system or on sdb?
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• 1100[08:18:05] <klys> just make devices.map with /dev/hdb first
• 1101[08:18:29] <klys> it will look where you put it
• 1102[08:18:41] <klys> sdb*
• 1103[08:18:45] <lindylex> jelly: I got to uupdate? Step four what do I do with uupdate.
• 1104[08:19:41] <Drzacek> no devices.map here
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• 1106[08:19:54] <jelly> lindylex: basically you just give it the path to the fresh new upstream tarball
• 1107[08:20:42] <lindylex> I can not find uupdate to install it.
• 1108[08:20:58] <lindylex> apt-get install uupdate does nothing.
• 1109[08:21:09] <missmbob> devscripts
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• 1111[08:21:24] <lindylex> Oh ok
• 1112[08:21:28] <lindylex> Got it
• 1113[08:21:55] <jelly> lindylex: you can read the factoid again if you missed something else, /msg dpkg uupdate
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• 1130[08:34:56] <soiz> i'm trying to run qjackctl but i get "jack server is not running or cannot be started"
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• 1155[08:52:11] <hellyeah> i added my user to sudo group but still got this error hellyeah is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
• 1156[08:52:16] <hellyeah> how can i fix that?
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• 1158[08:52:51] <OerHeks> hellyeah, logout/login perhaps?
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• 1173[08:57:48] <tom99> is bit rot real?
• 1174[08:58:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1683
• 1175[08:58:01] <tom99> i check ed this file I downloaded a couple years ago and it seems to have some corruption
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• 1177[08:59:08] <tom99> would there be some way to find the bits to correct to get the proper sha-160 hash?
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• 1184[09:01:53] <OerHeks> tom99, bit-rot is real, on all sorts of media.
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• 1186[09:02:20] <tom99> hmm
• 1187[09:02:23] <tom99> it's an iso file
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• 1190[09:02:32] <tom99> is there some way to use the crc of a cd file system to fix the file?
• 1191[09:02:33] <OerHeks> I guess if you read the file 20 times, you get 20 different checksums
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• 1197[09:06:12] <umbaman> guys i want to diff between two folders but to exclude hidden files (.*)
• 1198[09:06:41] <umbaman> diff -r -q folder1 folder2 > diffOfFolders
• 1199[09:06:54] <umbaman> this is what I am doing currently
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• 1201[09:07:17] <umbaman> how can I exclude from the output the files beggining with a dot?
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• 1205[09:09:06] <sumi> hello
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• 1209[09:09:42] <OerHeks> diff -rupN -x '.*' ./folder1 ./folder2 > diff.txt
• 1210[09:10:06] <umbaman> excellent! thank a lot OerHeks!
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• 1213[09:11:11] <OerHeks> replaced-url
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• 1215[09:12:17] <umbaman> cheers
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• 1261[09:32:37] <karvas> hello, I can't boot my system. LVM volume 'xxx' not found. It seems that initramfs does not have dm-crypt/cryptsetup enabled. Using a live cd, I can mount my root filesystem. But booting via grub fails, and the initramfs-bash fails to load dm-crypt. What can I do?
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• 1267[09:33:25] <karvas> sorry, the exact error message is: "Unable to find LVM volume debian/root"
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• 1274[09:34:50] <karvas> Then it says "dropping to a shell"... when I enter 'modprobe dm-crypt' in this shell (initramfs), it says "modprobe: module dm-crypt not found in modules.dep"
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• 1276[09:36:16] <karvas> do I need to rebuild initramfs somehow?
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• 1288[09:42:57] <vlt> karvas: For some reasons there’s a problem in recent Debian versions putting the cryptsetup binary into initramfs,
• 1289[09:43:25] <vlt> karvas: I think it happens when /etc/crypttab doesn’t make sense to the build scripts.
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• 1293[09:44:34] <vlt> karvas: You can boot from live CD or USB, run cryptsetup, chroot to the root fs and run `CRYPTSETUP=Y update-initrams ...` once.
• 1294[09:44:46] <karvas> vlt: that makes sense, I made a change to crypptab a few days ago
• 1295[09:45:34] <vlt> karvas: Prepending CRYPTSETUP=Y forces /sbin/cryptsetup to be put into initramfs.
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• 1297[09:46:10] <vlt> karvas: But mind that this is just a temporary solution until the next kernel update (or something else) triggers an initrs rebuild.
• 1298[09:46:22] <karvas> ok, I'll try that. Thank you very much!
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• 1302[09:47:14] <vlt> karvas: Fix /etc/crypttab while keeping a working copy of /boot/initrd-img... ;-)
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• 1305[09:48:47] <karvas> could just fixing crypttab and leaving the initrd-img as it is work also?
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• 1308[09:49:31] <vlt> karvas: Fixing crypttab took me more attempts than I initially hoped.
• 1309[09:50:00] <vlt> karvas: That’s why I kept a /boot/initrd.img.OK file.
• 1310[09:50:06] <vlt> To boot from
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• 1317[09:51:38] <karvas> ok, thanks
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• 1321[09:53:16] <maxcell_> when i open my google-chrome he alters the Gamma settings of my monitor, that the screen comes to bright. Somebody knows something about that? Any help is appreciate
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• 1327[09:56:30] <Je55ie> how to start sshd service in debian jessie? I use `systemctl start sshd` and it says no service exist
• 1328[09:56:52] <maxcell_> apt-get install openssh
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• 1332[09:58:00] <Je55ie> maxcell_: couldn't find package 'openssh' :(
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• 1336[09:58:25] <maxcell_> Je55ie, just type apt-get install open(and hit TABs)
• 1337[09:58:38] <maxcell_> i think the name is openssh-server or something like that
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• 1340[09:58:47] <Je55ie> nothing happen
• 1341[09:59:13] <maxcell_> Je55ie, type as a normal user, root doesnt have bash_completion by default
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• 1343[09:59:42] <michiel> Je55ie: systemctl start ssh (not sshd) (that is depending whether it is installed or not)
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• 1345[10:00:46] <Je55ie> maxcell_: I found openssh-server
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• 1347[10:01:06] <maxcell_> Je55ie, thats it, than systemctl start ssh (not sshd) like michiel said
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• 1349[10:01:28] <Je55ie> michiel: maxcell_ no service
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• 1351[10:01:48] <Je55ie> No such file or directory
• 1352[10:01:51] <maxcell_> you already install openssh-server?
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• 1354[10:02:12] <Je55ie> not yeat
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• 1356[10:02:17] <Je55ie> not yet
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• 1358[10:02:43] <maxcell_> you need to install than it will be a server and it will run
• 1359[10:02:59] <maxcell_> no bugs at all, i promisse
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• 1366[10:04:29] <Je55ie> ok, I will try it
• 1367[10:04:55] <maxcell_> ok
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• 1369[10:05:28] <Je55ie> maxcell_: michiel why systemctl start ssh not sshd?
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• 1372[10:05:46] <Je55ie> I found use sshd or ssh, both no error
• 1373[10:05:59] <Je55ie> no warning something
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• 1375[10:06:07] <maxcell_> the server initiate?
• 1376[10:06:33] <Je55ie> yes
• 1377[10:06:36] <maxcell_> cool
• 1378[10:06:50] <babilen> Je55ie: What does "systemctl status ssh.service" give you?
• 1379[10:06:53] <Je55ie> what's the diffrent
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• 1384[10:07:36] <Je55ie> babilen: active running
• 1385[10:07:38] <maxcell_> ssh"d" means daemon (service) or ssh.service, is the same thing
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• 1388[10:08:32] <Je55ie> and the common way is ? sshd or ssh?
• 1389[10:08:41] <babilen> Je55ie: That sounds good
• 1390[10:09:10] <maxcell_> the common way is that sshd is the service and ssh is just the App that you use to connect to the server i gess
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• 1392[10:09:42] <maxcell_> isnt a service
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• 1394[10:10:31] <babilen> .oO( Isn't it sad that *everything* is an app these days? Why don't we differentiate between daemon, program, executable, library, app (as in Android/iOS/...), ... anymore? )
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• 1397[10:11:06] <Je55ie> yes, systemctl start/stop ssh/sshd are same!
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• 1399[10:12:06] <maxcell_> Je55ie, thats because "ssh" is a alias for "ssh.service". Since you cant Start the program (app) ssh as a server
• 1400[10:12:23] * babilen chuckles
• 1401[10:12:36] <maxcell_> babilen, but i did
• 1402[10:12:59] <babilen> Did what?
• 1403[10:13:08] <maxcell_> i said that sshd is the server, while ssh is the app
• 1404[10:13:24] <hexnewbie> It's all binaries, cause it's all in bin. Even if the "binaries" are written in bash.
• 1405[10:14:14] <maxcell_> but the binarie, in this case, is a server?
• 1406[10:14:14] <Je55ie> app stuff is for android or ios
• 1407[10:14:27] <babilen> maxcell_: It's okay, we don't have to discuss this further. I just think that it is sad that many people nowadays use 'app' rather than a more specific term
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• 1409[10:14:46] <maxcell_> babilen, i got you
• 1410[10:15:07] <maxcell_> babilen, i just said App but i mean Program (app is for application right)
• 1411[10:15:07] <babilen> 'app' used to exclusively refer to applications that were developed for mobile platforms -- either way, pretty off-topic here :)
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• 1413[10:15:58] <maxcell_> i thought Apps and Programs were the same all my life
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• 1416[10:16:24] <Je55ie> they are
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• 1418[10:16:31] <maxcell_> so...
• 1419[10:16:47] <babilen> May I invite you to #debian-offtopic?
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• 1421[10:16:55] <maxcell_> lol
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• 1423[10:17:20] <maxcell_> just forget it, i was just looking for the easier way to type less and say what i mean
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• 1473[10:40:49] <upilss> ~
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• 1495[10:49:30] <Drzacek> I installed debian using other machine (without any hdd) on my cf card, installed grub to CFs mbr and now it works! it boots, it loads, it starts!
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• 1501[10:57:07] <nikitasius> hi folks! have a problem... looks like php-json was removed from repo due licencing shit between linux and others. i have some old stuff what need php-json and hopefully i keep it on server with 5.6.18. But for some new stuff i need php-intl, what can be installed from 5.6.25, but there is no php-json for 5.6.25. So the question is: where i can find php-intl for 5.6.18 or php-json for 5.6.25?
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• 1508[11:00:14] <hexnewbie> PHP 5.6.18 is old, and comes with the respective security holes. Debian Jessie comes with PHP 5.6.24 (security fixes from future versions backported, IIRC), not 5.6.25. No Debian comes with 5.6.25 - are you using Debian? You can get the source package for php-json and compile it, or just use the JSON that comes with PHP.
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• 1512[11:01:29] <hexnewbie> In fact, php5-json is in the repository.
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• 1518[11:02:42] <pragomer_1> hi. planning to switch from ubuntu to debian. do you think I can update my sources.list from jessie to stretch without any MAJOR problems?
• 1519[11:03:03] <OerHeks> pragomer_1, without re-install ???
• 1520[11:03:18] <Drzacek> I have ~3.5gb card, 73% in use. Any recommendations what software packages I could safely remove, without destroying system?
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• 1524[11:04:01] <pragomer_1> yes.. just installed a fresh jessie.. but planning to upgrade to stretch via changing my sources.list.. why?
• 1525[11:04:05] <nikitasius> hexnewbie: thanks! just googled and fong src in web. i'll try it. I use php as fpm module for some small sites what i'd like to stop but.. still support
• 1526[11:04:10] <nikitasius> *fond
• 1527[11:04:32] <babilen> pragomer_1: I'd strongly advise to have both stretch and sid in your sources.list and to set the default release to stretch (or testing/unstable if you prefer that). Also install apt-listbugs and read replaced-url
• 1528[11:05:07] <pragomer_1> mm.. why using unstable? thought using testing would be the "middle-way" ??
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• 1530[11:05:11] <OerHeks> pragomer_1, oh, not from ubuntu to jessie .. oke
• 1531[11:05:22] <jelly> babilen: probably not during the release upgrade process itself, tho?
• 1532[11:05:24] <babilen> pragomer_1: We support testing and unstable in #debian-next on irc.oftc.net and it has been quite fine in the last couple of months, but then I'm not using any huge desktop environment with lots of dependencies that might be affected by transitions
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• 1534[11:05:52] <babilen> jelly: Might allow apt to sort out some dependencies. Hard to answer that in general
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• 1537[11:06:14] <pragomer_1> so what would be best advice for having some newer programs, also a newer kernel? using backports and using jessie? right?
• 1538[11:06:47] <babilen> That's the advice if you want to upgrade a few selected packages to a newer version, yes
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• 1541[11:07:22] <pragomer_1> yes.. think this would be enough.. e.g. the kernel to 4.x.... firefox... darktable.... thats it I think
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• 1543[11:07:49] <babilen> judd: v darktable
• 1544[11:07:50] <judd> Package: darktable on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.0.4-1+deb7u2; wheezy-backports: 1.4.2-1~bpo70+1; jessie: 1.4.2-1+b3; jessie-backports: 2.0.4-1~bpo8+1; sid: 2.0.5-2+b1; stretch: 2.0.5-2+b1
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• 1548[11:08:02] <babilen> pragomer_1: Those are all available from backports
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• 1564[11:14:55] <ocx32> i am trying nc -nlvp 1100 -e /bin/ping and then echo "192.168.0.1" | nc -nv 127.0.0.1 1100 to ping that host but i am getting a syntax error any idea?
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• 1566[11:15:55] <nikitasius> hexnewbie: installed from repo lol. but.. upgraded 5.6.18 -> 5.6.25 with removing json and.. it kept json 1.2.1 (intead of 1.3.9). So now its "fresh" php and old json, but oldshit stuff works. phew!
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• 1570[11:20:42] <Artox> \o, I am in some trouble with my own maintainer scripts, triggers are queued but never executed; any hints how to debug that?
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• 1583[11:26:25] <dec0deIO> IDENTIFY
• 1584[11:26:37] <meowschwitz> NO
• 1585[11:26:42] <dec0deIO> hello
• 1586[11:27:22] <heller_> anyone here familiar with php and rrdtool?
• 1587[11:27:38] <dec0deIO> php yes
• 1588[11:27:41] <dec0deIO> whats up
• 1589[11:28:08] <heller_> but rrdtool?
• 1590[11:28:14] <dec0deIO> nop sorry
• 1591[11:28:24] <heller_> trying to convert mysql to rrd data
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• 1594[11:28:43] <meowschwitz> how's that debian related
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• 1596[11:29:02] <heller_> they all run on debian :)
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• 1598[11:30:05] <msev-> can anyone with more knowledge about linux help me with this issue: replaced-url
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• 1618[11:42:01] <hexnewbie> nikitasius: That's still not what's in Debian. Are you using Debian? You may consider doing so if you aren't :)
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• 1627[11:50:14] <karvas> I can't chroot into my root directory ("choot: can't execute '/bin/sh': Exec format error" - What can I do?
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• 1629[11:51:36] <themill> karvas: same architecture?
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• 1634[11:52:10] <karvas> themill: you mean like i386 / amd64 ?
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• 1636[11:52:59] <karvas> ah yes, this could be the problem
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• 1660[12:11:34] <hexnewbie> karvas: If you're going cross-architecture (like arm <-> x86), you may try qemu user.
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• 1663[12:13:45] <karvas> hexnewbie: thanks
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• 1667[12:19:54] <hexnewbie> karvas: I think you need qemu-user-static, and copying it inside the chroot, as you'd have to execute the x86 qemu for ARM inside the chroot
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• 1670[12:20:58] <hexnewbie> Like chroot /directory /usr/bin/qemu-arm-static /bin/sh
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• 1672[12:22:02] <themill> binfmt can also automate that
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• 1683[12:28:19] <nikitasius> hexnewbie: yep deb
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• 1685[12:28:28] <psylence> Hey guys. So now that there's an /apt/preferences.d/ and and /apt/apt.conf.d/ how do I manually set preferences_
• 1686[12:28:31] <psylence> ?
• 1687[12:28:55] <psylence> It used to be a file called /apt/preferences, now I'm confused
• 1688[12:29:18] <jelly> preaction: you can still create and use /etc/apt/preferences
• 1689[12:29:28] <hexnewbie> psylence: /etc/apt/preferences still works, files in /etc/apt/preferences.d/ also work (and are probably preferable - I moved my preferences there, but preferences still works too)
• 1690[12:29:37] <psylence> Will it override the other ones?
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• 1692[12:29:43] <psylence> (I don't want it to)
• 1693[12:29:57] <hexnewbie> The other ones being?
• 1694[12:30:26] <psylence> Nvm :P
• 1695[12:30:35] <psylence> What about /apt/apt.conf? Same thing ?
• 1696[12:30:46] <themill> the man pages discuss this, too
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• 1698[12:31:15] <hexnewbie> psylence: They would be completely different things. "man apt_preferences" and "man apt.conf"
• 1699[12:31:20] <psylence> themill: much easier to ask a group of knowledgable people :)
• 1700[12:31:58] <psylence> hexnewbie: yeah, I know they're two different things. I was just wondering if I could create an apt.conf with an apt.conf.d present (with conf files in it already)
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• 1702[12:32:43] <themill> Except that at this stage, man apt.conf would have answered the question more precisely than any of us ;)
• 1703[12:32:56] <psylence> OK. I'll read it.
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• 1709[12:35:00] <psylence> Thanks guys
• 1710[12:35:22] <pragomer_1> hi. cannot get debian-jessie-mate-autologin.... :-( Changing in /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-gretter.conf the lines autologin-user = and autologin-user-timeout = does not have an effect
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• 1725[12:43:01] <Drzacek> I have 2 CF cards, both ~3.7GiB. On one of them (sdb) is my OS, the other one has some partitions on it with irrelevant data. Can I do dd if=sdb of=sdd to create copy of my first card?
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• 1728[12:45:27] <jelly> Drzacek: the destination has to be at least as large as the source
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• 1732[12:46:23] <Drzacek> Those are the same cards, how sure can we be that they are exactly the same size?
• 1733[12:46:50] <jelly> Drzacek: blockdev --getsize64 /dev/sdX
• 1734[12:47:06] <Drzacek> Maybe I can create image from my source card and compress it somehow - there is a lot of free space
• 1735[12:47:22] <jelly> you can do a cp or dd, just make sure all the filesystems on the source are unmounted, or mounted read-only, or at the very least that no process is doing any writing during the copy
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• 1740[12:48:42] <Drzacek> looks like the size is the same
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• 1743[12:49:35] <jelly> good
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• 1746[12:50:20] <jelly> use cp, or a reasonably large bs= for dd, or pv if you like progress bars
• 1747[12:50:40] <jelly> WHO DOESN'T LIKE PROGRESS BARS? NOONE, THAT'S WHO
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• 1749[12:51:03] <jelly> pv < /dev/sdb > /dev/sdd # for great justice
• 1750[12:51:21] <Drzacek> hmm. if I dd from A to B, I get real bit to bit copy of source, right? With MBR and everything, so the other card will also be bootable
• 1751[12:51:37] <jelly> yes
• 1752[12:51:38] <colo-work> recent GNU dd also has "status=progress"
• 1753[12:51:53] <jelly> is that jessie recent
• 1754[12:51:54] <Drzacek> how recent is the debian testing dd?
• 1755[12:52:04] <colo-work> jelly, no, I'm afraid you'll need stretch
• 1756[12:52:19] <jelly> eh
• 1757[12:53:08] <jelly> pv still rules
• 1758[12:53:35] <colo-work> I just SIGUSR2 the running dd proces in a while-loop
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• 1761[12:54:11] <jelly> #sougly
• 1762[12:54:23] <jelly> sometimes you don't have anything else
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• 1768[12:56:07] <Drzacek> yay, I'm recent enough, got progress
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• 1796[13:06:31] <DoctorD90> SynrG, are you there? belong to you may I create an ISO image that comes with LUKS? :P I mean, system partition partitioned with LUKS? :P
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• 1803[13:08:16] <Drzacek> What is the right way to remove software from debian? apt-get remove [package], then apt-get autoremove?
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• 1806[13:09:43] <ProximaB> hi guys i was installing virtualbox on debian stretch, there was some dependency issues so i downloaded the particular dependency it turns out be old version, should i keep it or remove it?
• 1807[13:09:51] <jelly> Drzacek: or aptitude remove ... to do it in one pass
• 1808[13:10:06] <jelly> !debian-next
• 1809[13:10:06] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
• 1810[13:10:20] <jelly> ProximaB: ^^ right place for stretch users
• 1811[13:10:25] <Drzacek> don't use aptitude, I like to stick with apt-get. But the way I said is OK?
• 1812[13:10:41] <jelly> yes, pretty much
• 1813[13:11:14] <jelly> you may occasionally want to also purge leftover conffiles
• 1814[13:11:17] <jelly> !purge
• 1815[13:11:18] <dpkg> "purge" means to completely wipe away a package, including its configuration files. Use «aptitude purge $package» or «dpkg -P $package» (note: before wheezy, you can't 'apt-get purge' a package that is already removed; use aptitude or dpkg instead). To purge all "removed" packages: «aptitude purge '~c'». To restore configuration files, ask me about <confmiss>. Also ask me about <why aptitude>.
• 1816[13:11:29] <jelly> (again it's a lot easier to do with aptitude)
• 1817[13:11:30] <ProximaB> jelly it was not related to debian version, i am talking in general
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• 1819[13:12:06] <jelly> ProximaB: dependency issues are not a general problem but a problem of specific package versions, and repos configured
• 1820[13:12:30] <jelly> so okay, you can talk in general here, but if you want to _solve_ it...
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• 1824[13:13:07] <jelly> you'll probably get help from people with machines actually configured with stretch over there in that channel.
• 1825[13:13:26] <ProximaB> jellly i fixed the dependency by downloading the right one, but i am worried about the old, should i leave it or remove the old version?
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• 1827[13:13:46] <jelly> no idea
• 1828[13:13:57] <pragomer_1> how to install avidemux under jessie?
• 1829[13:14:06] <DoctorD90> jelly, to upgrade libreoffice from .deb files, I have to remove them before. I have used remove, not purge, but then each time i have to reconfigure "open .xls file with libreoffice"...and so on for all office document (or it will be opened with archive manager). It is there a way to keep this sort of settings by default?
• 1830[13:14:29] <ProximaB> ok thanks jelly
• 1831[13:15:15] <jelly> DoctorD90: no idea, I'm not even sure where those associations are kept. It may be something DE-specific
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• 1835[13:16:59] <ProximaB> jelly Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)
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• 1842[13:19:28] <hexnewbie> ProximaB: From the message you took #debian-next from: «If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.»
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• 1852[13:22:45] * jelly considers adding some bold and colors into that factoid
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• 1854[13:24:16] <ProximaB> hexnewbie, ok!
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• 1860[13:26:41] <Iridos> hm, I just see that duplicity uses 20G on my 45G / partition in / … these are duplicity-full-signatures.(datestring).sigtar.gz. duh. this is a 220G disk or so
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• 1869[13:30:17] <Iridos> what makes it more confusing is that there are different ones
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• 1875[13:35:02] <Iridos> pfft. and on the backup disk, the backups for my 230G disk take up 1.4T
• 1876[13:35:09] <Iridos> hideous
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• 1889[13:41:18] <DoctorD90> jelly, uhm...so at each installation i should re-set them....thx jelly ;)
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• 1913[13:50:11] <BlackCube> i need help
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• 1922[13:53:13] <DoctorD90> !ask
• 1923[13:53:14] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
• 1924[13:53:22] <DoctorD90> !ask BlackCube
• 1925[13:53:45] <BlackCube> !ask why is my viber not workign i instal it but it has no internet conection
• 1926[13:53:46] <dpkg> okay, BlackCube
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• 1930[13:54:38] <DoctorD90> the '!ask ' part is useless...but ok lol
• 1931[13:55:06] <BlackCube> !ask why is my viber not workign i instal it but it has no internet conection
• 1932[13:55:06] <dpkg> i already had it that way, BlackCube
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• 1935[13:55:57] <DoctorD90> BlackCube, the use of '!ask' is useless...it is just a commando for the bot...wait somebody will answer you.
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• 1946[14:00:20] <Ad1> replaced-url
• 1947[14:00:21] <Ad1> :D
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• 1954[14:05:00] <Iridos> pfft
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• 1963[14:06:51] <BlackCube> dpkg: forget ask why
• 1964[14:06:51] <dpkg> i forgot ask why, BlackCube
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• 1974[14:11:23] <Iridos> oh fuck duplicity
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• 1977[14:11:54] <dionysus69> clonezilla ftw lol
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• 1980[14:12:25] <Iridos> that can't do what I want
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• 1987[14:14:54] <dionysus69> btw
• 1988[14:15:05] <dionysus69> I just opened up back in time which came with gnome shell
• 1989[14:15:20] <dionysus69> its pretty good, its combination of rsync and cron.
• 1990[14:15:47] <dionysus69> I wonder, should I exclude /media directory? because thats where I am backing up everything so it would back itself up too and crash?
• 1991[14:16:00] *** riteshsarraf is now known as RickXy
• 1992[14:16:16] <dionysus69> it gives some suggested excluded files/dirs but not /media dir
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• 1994[14:16:39] <Iridos> probably, you also end up backuping any usb stick or whatever if you haven't excluded switching mounts
• 1995[14:17:20] <Iridos> what's that called? sounds a bit like rsnapshot…you should have a look at that
• 1996[14:17:31] *** Joins: Willis (Willis@replaced-ip)
• 1997[14:17:32] <dionysus69> yes exactly, I am backing up to external hd which is in media dir
• 1998[14:17:51] <dionysus69> its called back in time
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• 2002[14:18:08] <Iridos> I don't see anything like that in debian
• 2003[14:18:10] <dionysus69> backintime-gnome < package name
• 2004[14:18:17] <Iridos> ah
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• 2006[14:18:37] <dionysus69> or backintime-common or backintime-qt4 I have all three packages installed
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• 2008[14:18:51] <Iridos> really have a look at rsnapshot
• 2009[14:19:12] <Iridos> if that's not encrypting the backup or so
• 2010[14:19:24] <dionysus69> it has encryption options too
• 2011[14:19:36] <Falson> Kernel: x86_64 Linux 3.16.0-4-amd64
• 2012[14:19:39] <dionysus69> it has all options one would need + gui, and I like gui lol
• 2013[14:19:41] <Falson> Get on my level negroes
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• 2015[14:20:23] <dionysus69> what the fuck lol
• 2016[14:20:27] <Iridos> rsnapshot makes a 1:1 copy and for incremental backups it hard-links all files that haven't changed and creates a new copy for all that have
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• 2018[14:20:56] <dionysus69> sounds good lol
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• 2021[14:22:04] <Iridos> for that it's pretty simple it is still pretty space efficient (depending on the files, of course)
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• 2039[14:25:22] <danawar08> Hi
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• 2041[14:26:10] <danawar08> Hi #debian I have an issue where my DNS is working when i give it the hostname of my router but when i change it to googles DNS servers 8.8.8.8 it stops working is there a reason for this surely it should work?! :(
• 2042[14:27:44] <petn-randall> danawar08: Maybe your router is blocking DNS? What are the contents of /etc/resolv.conf after the change? → replaced-url
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• 2046[14:28:54] <danawar08> petn-randall: Just nameserver 8.8.8.8
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• 2050[14:30:03] <Drzacek> I see that current install DVD has pretty old linux kernel. If I install my own (4.6.7) kernel, do I have to install some other things?
• 2051[14:30:36] <danawar08> petn-randall: Other hosts behind the router work so it is not a firewall
• 2052[14:31:00] <danawar08> petn-randall: Iptables have been cleared with accept and the issue is still there :(
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• 2054[14:32:37] <Iridos> judd, kernels
• 2055[14:32:38] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.7.0-rc7-686 (4.7~rc7-1~exp1); sid: 4.7.0-1-686 (4.7.2-1); stretch: 4.6.0-1-686 (4.6.4-1); jessie-backports: 4.6.0-0.bpo.1-686-pae (4.6.4-1~bpo8+1); jessie: 3.16.0-4-686-pae (3.16.36-1+deb8u1); wheezy-backports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.7-ckt25-2+deb8u3~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-4-686-pae (3.2.81-2)
• 2056[14:33:16] <Iridos> Drzacek, take the 4.6.0 kernel from jessie-backports?
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• 2060[14:34:21] <Drzacek> Iridos, well, I need my own special kernel, already compiled
• 2061[14:34:26] <Iridos> danawar08, dns queries use UDP on a specific port… I'd also say it's the router or something else blocking the traffic
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• 2064[14:35:45] <Iridos> Drzacek, dunno then. probably not.
• 2065[14:36:52] <danawar08> Iridos: dns queries use UDP port 53 this is allowed through firewalls as it works when using the router as the nameserver. As for the router if it had a problem with the firewall all my other servers would not be working.
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• 2069[14:39:30] <Iridos> but there is no innate firewall in debian systems
• 2070[14:40:17] <Iridos> there is one if you install some netfilter packages… but if you did, you'd know that
• 2071[14:41:10] <Iridos> for testing, you can give nslookup the nameserver that it should use; like nslookup heise.de 8.8.8.8
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• 2076[14:42:57] <danawar08> Iridos: connection timed out; no server could be reached
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• 2078[14:44:09] <danawar08> Iridos: I ran the same command on a server that is on the same esx host and it works :(
• 2079[14:45:00] <_sh00p> This is a bit farfetched, but perhaps your isp doesn't like you using other nameservers than theirs. I believe this is how they enforce anti-piracy laws in some places
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• 2091[14:47:00] <danawar08> _sh00p: If this was the case it would most probably be consistently not working across the servers.
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• 2095[14:48:53] <_sh00p> danawar08: yeah, that is strange
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• 2102[14:53:31] <Drzacek> damn, system hangs up on login screen with new kernel
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• 2104[14:54:21] <Iridos> danawar08, time to fire up tcpdump/wireshark?
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• 2107[14:54:57] <Iridos> your routing could be somehow wrong as well
• 2108[14:55:52] <danawar08> Iridos: tcpdump shows DNS going out but not coming back
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• 2110[14:56:16] <danawar08> Iridos: The print out of route is the exact clone of that from another server that is working.
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• 2112[14:56:32] <danawar08> I think i agree with you that it could be somthing the router is doing
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• 2114[14:56:52] <danawar08> Unfortunately i have not been given access to that yet
• 2115[14:57:23] <danawar08> But i also cant think what on the router would affect it if its working for all other machines it would have to be a specific rule put in for a reason.
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• 2117[14:58:08] <Drzacek> The same machine, one os - debian 8 "testing" on hdd, 2nd os - debian 8 stable (jessie) on cf card. The first one runs without problems with custom kernel, second os hangs on login screen (mouse and keyboard non responsive). Any reasons, solutions, ideas?
• 2118[14:58:41] *** Joins: jomofcw (~jomofcw@replaced-ip)
• 2119[14:58:43] <jomofcw> Hello !
• 2120[14:58:58] <petn-randall> Drzacek: Debian 8 ist stable, testing is a pre-release version of 9.
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• 2122[14:59:41] <Drzacek> petn-randall, sorry, my bad
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• 2130[15:02:56] <Guest14626> what's the current version of KDE on debian stable? is it available in backport repos?
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• 2133[15:05:45] <kingkong> how can i see today's channel logs for this channel?
• 2134[15:06:11] <kingkong> it shows till yesterday on your web
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• 2139[15:06:37] <petn-randall> Drzacek: If you're still on 8 "testing", you can update to the current stable. Can you check what state those two systems are in?
• 2140[15:06:56] <Drzacek> ok, found my problem (I guess)
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• 2142[15:07:10] <petn-randall> Drzacek: What was it?
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• 2144[15:07:24] <Drzacek> Apparently I forgot how to install kernel, and just copied vmlinuz and initrd to /boot
• 2145[15:07:29] *** Parts: shastry (~shastry@replaced-ip)
• 2146[15:07:42] <Drzacek> totally forgeting about modules
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• 2149[15:08:13] <zinx> apparently someone needs to tell you about make-kpkg
• 2150[15:09:03] <zinx> which is part of the kernel-package package
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• 2152[15:09:29] <babilen> Isn't that quite obsolete?
• 2153[15:09:33] <babilen> dpkg: kernel-handbook
• 2154[15:09:33] <dpkg> The Debian Linux Kernel Handbook replaced-url
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• 2159[15:10:51] <Drzacek> I didn't used debian source, only from kernel.org
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• 2162[15:12:31] <babilen> Drzacek: Why are you compiling a kernel in the first place?
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• 2165[15:13:24] <ws2k3> im learning mdadm. i have setup a mirror on 2 disks. i disconnected one disk and reconnected it again. but mdadm does not see i plugged the disk back in how should i proceed?
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• 2167[15:13:55] <Storfiskaren> ws2k3: you need to add the disk to the array again
• 2168[15:14:03] <kyle__> ws2k3: IIRC it won't re-attach it to the array.
• 2169[15:14:11] <Drzacek> babilen, rt patch
• 2170[15:14:53] <ws2k3> kyle__ ah okay why not? should i just readd the partitions to the array and let it rebuild again?
• 2171[15:15:03] <kyle__> ws2k3: as far as the RAID1 is concerned, the data on it is worthless, because it's continued to write bits to the other half. When you add that half of the mirro back, it should (slowLy) reincorperate the disk, but it will do so by coyping all the blocks over again.
• 2172[15:15:20] <babilen> judd: v linux-image-rt-amd64
• 2173[15:15:21] <judd> Package: linux-image-rt-amd64 on amd64 -- wheezy: 3.2+46; jessie-backports: 4.6+74~bpo8+1; stretch: 4.6+74
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• 2175[15:15:24] <babilen> Drzacek: ^
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• 2180[15:15:50] <Storfiskaren> ws2k3: mdamd --manage <array> --add <device that was reattached>
• 2181[15:16:22] <ws2k3> Storfiskaren so i just need to readd them again? it does not go rebuild automaticly/by itself?
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• 2183[15:16:38] <kyle__> ws2k3: Correct.
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• 2187[15:17:41] <ws2k3> is it safe to shut down the machine while rebuilding? or should i let it finish rebuilding first
• 2188[15:17:43] <kyle__> ws2k3: Think of it this way: a bad disk can be bad in many ways. It's entirely possible (and not uncommon if you deal with enough drives), to have a bad disk that peridically drops out of your drive channel, then back in again.
• 2189[15:17:56] <Drzacek> any 32bit version maybe?
• 2190[15:18:09] *** Quits: hualet (~hualet@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 2191[15:18:12] <Drzacek> well, the compilation went fine, I used other PC for some time now without problems
• 2192[15:18:13] <kyle__> ws2k3: The disk is marked bad when it drops out. Would you really want it to start using that disk again?
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• 2195[15:19:02] <aboman> ws2k3, you should look into bitmap too, it will let you readd a dropped disk/partition without rebuilding entire array
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• 2200[15:19:57] <balance> hi
• 2201[15:20:00] <ws2k3> aboman i googled on madam ditmap but its not realy showing anything. could you be a bit more spesific?
• 2202[15:20:12] <balance> how can I check what files are going to be installed by a specific package?
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• 2207[15:21:02] <aboman> ws2k3, replaced-url
• 2208[15:22:00] <abrotman> balance: is it from the repository? you can use apt-file, or dpkg -L
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• 2210[15:22:27] <balance> abrotman: ah nice thanks
• 2211[15:22:33] <ws2k3> aboman thx
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• 2217[15:24:13] <aboman> ws2k3, np. if you go the bitmap route remember to remove it first if you want to grow the array (switch to more/larger disks)
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• 2219[15:24:49] <google77> hi
• 2220[15:25:15] <google77> Is it possible to encrypt just one partition on a hard drive?
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• 2222[15:25:48] <rudi_s> google77: Sure. The (manual) partioner in the installer can do that too.
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• 2225[15:26:31] <google77> rudi_s well I am partitioning an external drive. Thanks.
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• 2229[15:27:07] <Drzacek> This is just great, gonna try that. So this make-kpkg creates .deb with new kernel, so I can install it on other (debian-based) system! Someone should have told me that earlier
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• 2231[15:28:06] <colo-work> Drzacek, the vanilla Linux kernel sources have a Makefile target that does the same (or a very similar) think
• 2232[15:28:09] <colo-work> thing*
• 2233[15:28:10] <zinx> i use it for building kernels for beaglebone / raspberry pi :/
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• 2235[15:28:38] <Drzacek> question is, if I have it already compiled, can I just make a package without recompiling whole kernel again?
• 2236[15:28:42] <colo-work> "make deb-pkg"
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• 2240[15:29:04] <colo-work> you should also set CONFIG_DEBUG_INFO=n in the kernel source's .config
• 2241[15:29:08] <rudi_s> google77: Ok. In that case I don't know how if there are tools to automate that. But you can use cryptsetup luksFormat to encrypt a partition and either use a assphrase or keyfile for that.
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• 2243[15:29:40] <Drzacek> changing config will surely make it recompile again
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• 2245[15:30:03] <colo-work> not everything though; only what needs recompilation.
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• 2247[15:31:19] <zinx> if you change an option like that, it tends to be everything
• 2248[15:31:21] <google77> thanks rudi_s
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• 2253[15:32:12] <Drzacek> I'm 99% sure I turned all debug info off
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• 2257[15:33:54] <rudi_s> np
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• 2259[15:34:38] <ancky> I have NIS clients that don't use the +::: in /etc/groups but somehow NIS groups are adapted
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• 2262[15:35:23] <ancky> does this even work without changing the /etc/group file?
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• 2287[15:42:29] <rudi_s> ancky: Yes. If you use ldap in /etc/nsswitch.conf (e.g. "group: files ldap") then you don't have to use the compat resolution with +::: in /etc/groups.
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• 2290[15:44:43] <ancky> rudi_s: this looks promising, there are two different configs
• 2291[15:44:46] <ancky> thanks!
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• 2296[15:45:25] <rudi_s> np
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• 2302[15:47:54] <|DM|> I have a kinda noobish question, would the latest kernel (4.X) work with debian 8.3 ?
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• 2306[15:51:05] <zykotick9> ,kernels
• 2307[15:51:06] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.7.0-rc7-686 (4.7~rc7-1~exp1); sid: 4.7.0-1-686 (4.7.2-1); stretch: 4.6.0-1-686 (4.6.4-1); jessie-backports: 4.6.0-0.bpo.1-686-pae (4.6.4-1~bpo8+1); jessie: 3.16.0-4-686-pae (3.16.36-1+deb8u1); wheezy-backports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.7-ckt25-2+deb8u3~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-4-686-pae (3.2.81-2)
• 2308[15:51:16] <dionysus69> ok thats it. this is just stupid. Why does rm -rf take 1 second to delete 1.5 gb dir with 300k files while nautilus takes 2 minutes+ ???
• 2309[15:51:31] <zykotick9> |DM|: see the jessie-backports version number above...
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• 2313[15:52:36] <hexnewbie> dinoocch: GUIs. Showing the progress bar with effects is important. It's well worth the two minutes. ;) Actually, not really - I think mc is also slower (not sure if as slower). The files just delete way faster than user feedback, and all UIs are overeager to show feedback, so.
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• 2317[15:53:24] <dionysus69> what is mc?
• 2318[15:53:26] <themill> dionysus69: nautilus may either moving them to the trash or deleting them one at a time
• 2319[15:53:34] <hexnewbie> dinoocch: Midnight Commander
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• 2321[15:54:06] <dionysus69> not moving to trash, I used shift delete
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• 2323[15:54:37] <dionysus69> maybe one at a time but thats what rm -r does too right? just muuuuch faster
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• 2326[15:55:29] <hexnewbie> rm is also deleting the files one at a time. However, I experienced roughly the same effect when I wrote an async clamd client. For some reason, clamdscan works way faster, even though they do the same. It's just that my mainloop handles other things that added enough latency to be noticeable... I imagine a GUI, or even text UI to be updated has a similar effect.
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• 2328[15:56:51] <hexnewbie> If it takes 1 µs for the file to be deleted, and the 5µs for the mainloop to process it, it is bound to be 6 times slower for no reason.
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• 2338[16:00:32] <|DM|> zykotick9, thanks!
• 2339[16:00:51] <|DM|> I apt-searched but forgot about backports. My bad
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• 2343[16:01:44] <_sh00p> a
• 2344[16:01:51] <_sh00p> sorry, missclick
• 2345[16:02:15] <fredl> hi folks, I just asked a question about USB webcam on #alsa, but seems nobody there. I'm getting messages saying 'snd-usb-audio 1-1:1.2: cannot find the slot for index 1 (range 0-1), error: -16' in my dmesg
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• 2349[16:03:14] <fredl> The camera part of the webcam seems to work alright, the microphone doesn't though. Any clue how I can fix the above error message?
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• 2360[16:08:53] <fredl> Hmm.
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• 2363[16:08:58] <fredl> okay...
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• 2366[16:10:04] <mtn> fredl: tried all of your usb ports? used pavucontrol to check devices/sound levels?
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• 2371[16:12:33] <fredl> well... the USB port works, just that error message comes from ALSA right?
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• 2374[16:13:10] <stardancer> ls -als
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• 2377[16:13:19] <mtn> fredl: in troubleshooting, you actually try things that might help. try the other usb ports
• 2378[16:13:22] <fredl> anyway, I just editted my /etc/modprobe.d/sound...
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• 2380[16:13:57] <jusss> how I can use 'freeze' with systemctl? I know systemctl suspend will suspend to ram
• 2381[16:14:07] <fredl> and changed options snd_usb_audio index=1 to options snd_usb_audio index=2
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• 2384[16:14:27] <jusss> I found there're only 'freeze' and 'disk' in /sys/power/state, no 'mem'
• 2385[16:14:54] <jusss> so I wonder if I can use 'freeze' with systemctl?
• 2386[16:14:55] <fredl> after I rmmod snd_usb_audio and then depmod it again It does not seem to be logging that error
• 2387[16:15:33] <mtn> jusss: man systemctl?
• 2388[16:15:35] <fredl> and /proc/asound/cards shows my USB-Audio, so oh well, I guess I fixed it myself then :)
• 2389[16:15:37] <zykotick9> jusss: what is "freeze" do you mean hibernate? "systemctl hibernate" suspends to disk.
• 2390[16:15:38] <fredl> tnx mtn
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• 2394[16:16:22] <mtn> fredl: :)
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• 2419[16:25:19] <jim> I just got an asus q504ua laptop and I'm trying to boot it from usb (probably the only connection this question has to debian, is I want to boot a debian netinstall image from usb)... the problem I believe is it never sees the usb card reader in the first place, but I can write to it from a different machine, it's how I got the image onto it) I would need help figureing out how to get it to see the usb so that at minimum it has a chance to boot it
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• 2422[16:26:23] <somiaj> jim: how did you write the usb image from the other machine (software used?). Does the laptop bios/efi have any configuration to choose usb as a boot device. If you can't choose the usb as a boot device from the machine, unsure what to do.
• 2423[16:26:36] <jim> using dd
• 2424[16:26:47] <asdfffdsa> How does one stop the X server in debian? Is there a systemd service that keeps it up?
• 2425[16:27:19] <somiaj> asdfffdsa: Sounds like you need to stop the display manager. Do you want to not have a display manager or just stop it after you log out and it brings you back to a graphical login screen?
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• 2427[16:27:30] <petn-randall> asdfffdsa: Usually you have a login manager like gdm, kdm or xdm running, that takes care of those details.
• 2428[16:27:42] <somiaj> jim: I would poke around the laptops configuration and see if you can tell it to boot from usb.
• 2429[16:27:46] <jim> somiaj, maybe that's the key right there, to find out how to get it to boot usb
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• 2431[16:28:06] <somiaj> jim: you could try putting the model of laptop in google and boot usb see if that gives any useful hits.
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• 2433[16:28:30] <jim> yeah I can try that again
• 2434[16:28:31] <asdfffdsa> somiaj: I want to temporarily disable the display manager. It should still startup at boot time though
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• 2438[16:28:59] <jim> maybe I should get a different usb key
• 2439[16:29:06] <somiaj> asdfffdsa: the display manager will have a service you can stop. I think you need to be loged out of x to have it work.
• 2440[16:29:15] <zykotick9> asdfffdsa: is this to install video drivers?
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• 2443[16:29:30] <somiaj> jim: shouldn't matter, but yes I would use one you know forsure can boot.
• 2444[16:29:32] <asdfffdsa> somiaj: I disabled lightdm, which comes up in systemd as a display manager
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• 2447[16:29:52] <jim> I've seen this one boot on other machines
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• 2455[16:30:23] <asdfffdsa> zykotick9: No, I'm trying to stop all applications using the home directory of a particular user. I've logged out through the display manager and am connected over SSH
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• 2457[16:30:38] <zykotick9> asdfffdsa: ok, just checkin'
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• 2462[16:31:41] <somiaj> asdfffdsa: you don't want to disable, you want to stop.
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• 2465[16:31:57] <asdfffdsa> somiaj: yeah you're right
• 2466[16:32:10] <somiaj> asdfffdsa: the display manager shouldn't be running as a paticular user. It should be running as root waiting for a user to login.
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• 2478[16:37:27] <asdfffdsa> somiaj: oh ok i figured it out. i had stopped both lightdm and the vncserver but still saw X apps running. turns out that for some reason there was another vnc server running that i had to manually kill
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• 2480[16:38:05] <missmbob> another server "for some reason"?? did you do it or are you compromised?
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• 2483[16:39:23] <asdfffdsa> missmbob: No clue, this was my first time installing debian and one of the first things I did was install realvnc but perhaps debian came with another vncserver installed and started by default
• 2484[16:39:42] <missmbob> asdfffdsa: debian doesnt come with vnc installed by default
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• 2487[16:40:14] <missmbob> hell sshd isn't installed by default
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• 2508[16:45:56] <asdfffdsa> missmbob: I stopped vncserver-x11-serviced but Xvnc was still running
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• 2563[17:06:28] <jhutchins_wk> For anyone reading along, Debian does not install and start any VNC server by default, they have to be manually installed and enabled.
• 2564[17:06:34] <rudar> hi, does anyone with ffmpeg get this error? "ffmpeg: relocation error: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libavfilter.so.6: symbol av_opencl_register_kernel_code, version LIBAVUTIL_55 not defined in file libavutil.so.55 with link time reference"
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• 2567[17:07:07] <rudar> I've found this bug of 2012 replaced-url
• 2568[17:07:08] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 2569[17:07:11] <jhutchins_wk> rudar: Which release of debian, which version of ffmpeg?
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• 2573[17:08:31] <rudar> jhutchins_wk, I'm running debian testing, ran apt-get update && apt-get upgrade yesterday (after quite a long time) ffmpeg version is now "Version: 7:3.1.2-1"
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• 2576[17:09:52] <jhutchins_wk> ,v ffmpeg
• 2577[17:09:53] <judd> Package: ffmpeg on amd64 -- wheezy: 6:0.8.17-2; wheezy-security: 6:0.8.17-2+deb7u2; jessie-backports: 7:3.0.2-4~bpo8+1; stretch: 7:3.1.2-1; sid: 7:3.1.3-1+b3; wheezy-multimedia: 8:1.0.10-dmo1; jessie-multimedia: 10:2.6.9-dmo1; sid-multimedia: 10:3.1.3-dmo3
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• 2579[17:10:09] <missmbob> !ddebian-next
• 2580[17:10:18] <missmbob> !debian-next
• 2581[17:10:19] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not* on Freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is invite only)." it means you did not read it's on irc.oftc.net.
• 2582[17:10:24] *** Quits: High_Priest (~hp@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 2583[17:10:29] <jhutchins_wk> rudar: The dmm version might be a solution.
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• 2586[17:11:36] <jhutchins_wk> rudar: Seems like that bug only crops up on certain operations not everyone uses. You might see if there's an upstream forum where it's been discussed (check the archives before opening a new topic).
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• 2588[17:12:03] <rudar> jhutchins_wk, that error shows up even when running "ffmpeg --help"
• 2589[17:12:07] <jhutchins_wk> missmbob: If this is a bug from 2012 it's not testing-specific.
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• 2591[17:12:52] <jhutchins_wk> missmbob: What kernel are you using?
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• 2593[17:12:56] <jhutchins_wk> ,kernels
• 2594[17:12:57] <judd> Available kernel versions are: experimental: 4.7.0-rc7-686 (4.7~rc7-1~exp1); sid: 4.7.0-1-686 (4.7.2-1); stretch: 4.6.0-1-686 (4.6.4-1); jessie-backports: 4.6.0-0.bpo.1-686-pae (4.6.4-1~bpo8+1); jessie: 3.16.0-4-686-pae (3.16.36-1+deb8u1); wheezy-backports: 3.16.0-0.bpo.4-686-pae (3.16.7-ckt25-2+deb8u3~bpo70+1); wheezy: 3.2.0-4-686-pae (3.2.81-2)
• 2595[17:13:16] <missmbob> jhutchins_wk: wky?
• 2596[17:13:29] <rudar> jhutchins_wk, my bug isn't from 2012, it's just similar to the one I'm having
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• 2598[17:13:36] <rijdfdfp> hey
• 2599[17:13:41] <missmbob> jhutchins_wk: 4.6. why?
• 2600[17:13:46] <jhutchins_wk> rudar: Ah.
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• 2604[17:14:07] <rudar> jhutchins_wk, ffmpeg worked fine before the upgrade
• 2605[17:14:18] <jhutchins_wk> rudar: Ideally you would compare your testing installation to a stable installation and determine if it's a problem in both.
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• 2607[17:14:35] <rudar> oh. didn't run dist-upgrade... let's see if that fixes the problem
• 2608[17:14:57] <jhutchins_wk> rudar: Yeah, sounds like an upgrade induced bug, likely a mis-match between a library (libavcodec) and the ffmpeg code.
• 2609[17:15:08] <rijdfdfp> I'm looking for a way to "block" the alt-tab behaviour for a specific window ? Or just set a windows as "always focused" ; which is not the same as "always above".
• 2610[17:15:19] <jhutchins_wk> rudar: It might take a bit for all of the components to get synced.
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• 2613[17:15:55] <fale> I have found a bug on replaced-url
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• 2620[17:17:28] <jhutchins_wk> fale: A bug on the web site?
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• 2625[17:18:38] <fale> jhutchins_wk: nope, on the pgp-tools
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• 2627[17:18:59] <jhutchins_wk> !bugreport
• 2628[17:19:11] <jhutchins_wk> !reportbug
• 2629[17:19:11] <dpkg> reportbug is used to submit bugs to the Debian <BTS>. Install reportbug, then run reportbug. Or on the web, replaced-url
• 2630[17:19:42] <rudar> jhutchins_wk, apt-get dist-upgrade solved my problem
• 2631[17:19:45] <jhutchins_wk> fale: It's important to check bugs.debian.org to see if it's already been reported. There might be a work-around.
• 2632[17:19:49] <fale> jhutchins_wk: so I use the debian bug system even if I'm dealing with the pgp tools sources and not the bedian package?
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• 2636[17:20:24] <jhutchins_wk> fale: Well, if the bug exists in the Debian package, there should be a report tracking it, even if the fix needs to happen upstream.
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• 2639[17:21:11] <jhutchins_wk> fale: If the bug does NOT exist in the debian package (they do get patched), you need to find out what the upstream reporting process is (it varies by project).
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• 2653[17:25:07] <fale> jhutchins_wk: I don't know if it work in debian (but I guess yes, because I have compiling problems)
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• 2655[17:25:31] <fale> jhutchins_wk: thanks. sadly I've not found any reference to a bug tracker for the project
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• 2670[17:29:43] <blackcube> hi
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• 2699[17:39:45] <DoctorD90> im on jessie. gpg2 hasnt yet the ecc? it will be with next release?
• 2700[17:39:51] <DoctorD90> !gpg
• 2701[17:39:51] <dpkg> [gpg] GNU Privacy Guard (GnuPG, GPG) is free public-key encryption program, an alternative to <PGP>. Packaged for Debian as gnupg and gnupg2. replaced-url
• 2702[17:40:13] <DoctorD90> !pgp
• 2703[17:40:14] <dpkg> Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) is a <non-free> public-key encryption program, previously packaged for Debian as pgp-i and pgp-us. Superseded by the GNU Privacy Guard (GPG), ask me about <gpg>.
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• 2712[17:43:20] <olscumpy> !vkc
• 2713[17:43:24] <olscumpy> !vnc
• 2714[17:43:24] <dpkg> Virtual Network Computing (VNC) is a platform-independent graphical desktop sharing system (i.e. provides GUI remote access). Server packages in Debian include <tightvncserver>, <vnc4server> and <x11vnc>; "apt-cache search vnc" will list other servers and clients. Ask me about <vnc setup>, see also <x-not-vnc> for an alternative. replaced-url
• 2715[17:43:50] <olscumpy> !vnc setup
• 2716[17:43:50] <dpkg> [vnc setup] Install <x11vnc> on the remote host and a VNC viewer (e.g. xtightvncviewer, xvnc4viewer) on the local computer; Locally: ssh -C -L 5900:localhost:5900 remotehost; Remote run: x11vnc -display :0; Locally: vncviewer localhost; that's it! VNC securely tunneled over SSH!
• 2717[17:44:12] <missmbob> olscumpy: you can /msg dpkg foo for yourself, btw
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• 2719[17:44:38] <olscumpy> oh, ok, thanks!
• 2720[17:44:40] <marijnfs> i would suggest nomachine
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• 2722[17:44:44] <marijnfs> much better
• 2723[17:44:50] <marijnfs> but i think closed
• 2724[17:45:41] <olscumpy> can that one work with windows machines too?
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• 2726[17:45:46] <DoctorD90> olscumpy, even if it is not in debian repo, I suggest you realvnc :)
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• 2729[17:46:13] <DoctorD90> it is multiplatform, and I use it *everywhere*
• 2730[17:46:37] <DoctorD90> just take 1 free token :)
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• 2733[17:47:58] <marijnfs> it might be windows too
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• 2736[17:48:40] <marijnfs> yeah seems so
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• 2740[17:49:20] <jhutchins_wk> Most VNC programs are cross-platform
• 2741[17:49:54] <olscumpy> cool. I was using teamviewer, but the multiple nag popups make my family think they've got a virus
• 2742[17:50:08] <jhutchins_wk> olscumpy: You might also look into X forwarding in ssh, no need to forward a whole desktop for one app.
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• 2750[17:51:34] <smdrz> what is purpose of keyctl
• 2751[17:51:48] <smdrz> accidently revoked something
• 2752[17:51:57] <DoctorD90> olscumpy, it depends. VNC needs portforwarding, but you have a direct connect. Not encrypted if you dont puchase license, or dont make a ssh tunneling. Teamviewer is easier.
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• 2755[17:52:17] <DoctorD90> olscumpy, it depends on your network configuration.
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• 2757[17:53:00] <olscumpy> not encrypted seems like a bad thing for remote access
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• 2763[17:53:39] <DoctorD90> olscumpy, as said. VNC allowes ssh tunneling. But it needs the same of portforwarding
• 2764[17:54:00] <DoctorD90> teamviewer is also cross-platform from what i remmeber
• 2765[17:54:08] <DoctorD90> !teamviewer
• 2766[17:54:15] <DoctorD90> no...nothing :P
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• 2768[17:54:45] <Wotac> i installed debian for my new T430 thinkpad, but the brightness control doesn't work, is it fixable?
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• 2775[17:55:25] <olscumpy> > I was using teamviewer, but the multiple nag popups make my family think they've got a virus
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• 2777[17:56:15] <DoctorD90> olscumpy, just setup settings ...
• 2778[17:56:23] <DoctorD90> it isnt so hard btw
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• 2780[17:56:40] <olscumpy> figuring out tunneling and using vnc - or realvnc - sounds good
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• 2782[17:57:08] <olscumpy> DoctorD90: you can't turn off the "thanks for playing fair" popup at the end
• 2783[17:57:21] <olscumpy> which also pops the main window up
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• 2789[17:58:19] <DoctorD90> yea...you can delete only payng :)
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• 2800[18:01:04] <olscumpy> !pedantic
• 2801[18:01:04] <dpkg> [pedantic] if you're going to be pedantic, be correct!!! (maxim #1)
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• 2866[18:24:16] <rijdfdfp> how can I check if an app dispose of a translation in my langage (french) or not ?
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• 2869[18:24:38] <rijdfdfp> I found this replaced-url
• 2870[18:25:05] <jelly> rijdfdfp: it means it's partial and some strings will be fuzzy or not translated
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• 2872[18:25:22] <jelly> try it and see for yourself
• 2873[18:25:26] <rijdfdfp> jelly, could I simply complete the translation and apply them to my system ?
• 2874[18:25:37] <rijdfdfp> I wonder if it's simple
• 2875[18:26:18] <jelly> hmm, ask the package maintainer how to help translating
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• 2887[18:28:00] <rijdfdfp> jelly, okay, i'll send a mail then.
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• 2913[18:40:46] <jandrusk> Looks like 0ad is broken in Stretch.
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• 2916[18:41:36] <jandrusk> apt-get only install 0ad-data, no binaries.
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• 2932[18:47:02] <ThereIsNoYeti> Does anyone have a handy way of managing multiple versions of clang and llvm on jessie? Seems like you need to either install a lot of alternatives in update-alternatives
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• 2991[19:07:47] <DonPablo> fux is happening in #Amun-Ra wtf
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• 3006[19:11:14] <c4b3rwolf2> tify cedricpassdis86
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• 3009[19:11:36] <greycat> oopsie.
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• 3031[19:19:13] <DeaDSouL> hi, why doesn't debian respect the groups ? like the user can use the webcam even if he wasn't in the video group?
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• 3055[19:25:20] <petn-randall> DeaDSouL[foodTim: My /dev/video0 is only readable by the video group. Can you show us the output of 'ls -al /dev/video0'?
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• 3059[19:25:56] <petn-randall> DeaDSouL[foodTim: Also the output of 'id' run as your normal user would be useful.
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• 3078[19:33:36] <DammitJim> is there a way to ensure a samba mount is always present?
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• 3080[19:33:47] <DammitJim> or is that an unrealistic expectation
• 3081[19:33:52] <GNU\colossus> ah scratch that, I was looking at the wrong browser tab ._.
• 3082[19:34:13] <GNU\colossus> DammitJim, it's unrealistic, as network connections can and do fail
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• 3086[19:34:43] <GNU\colossus> DammitJim, with a systemd mount unit, you have very flexible control about what should be done if it's not there, or (dis)appears
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• 3094[19:36:24] <DammitJim> GNU\colossus, with systemd, right?
• 3095[19:36:46] <DammitJim> what should I tell the developers? I thought I was helping by saying that I could set up a samba mountpoint for them to use
• 3096[19:36:47] <GNU\colossus> yes
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• 3101[19:37:18] <GNU\colossus> well, you can provide them with that mount, and they can generally expect it to be available.
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• 3103[19:37:36] <GNU\colossus> but they cannot expect it to be available AT ALL TIMES, no matter the circumstances
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• 3106[19:37:58] <DammitJim> what should they do?
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• 3109[19:38:04] <DammitJim> I'm trying to draw the responsibility line
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• 3111[19:38:21] <GNU\colossus> DammitJim, have their application fail gracefully if it's not there.
• 3112[19:38:35] <DammitJim> yeah,that'swhat I told them
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• 3114[19:38:45] <DammitJim> but I guess at the end of the day, I'm still responsible for the mount to exist
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• 3117[19:39:12] <andmizyk> clear
• 3118[19:40:04] <GNU\colossus> DammitJim, well, there's not much one can do if the CIFS server fails, or the link between your host and that server breaks.
• 3119[19:40:19] <GNU\colossus> (except keeping a cool head and fixing the problem, of course)
• 3120[19:40:39] <GNU\colossus> but you cannot magically guarantee something like a network service to _always_ be available
• 3121[19:40:53] <GNU\colossus> to do so would be even more foolish than to trust such a promise ;)
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• 3124[19:42:22] <DammitJim> can't guarantee it, then
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• 3136[19:45:43] <newbie_> guys I am running Debian 8 & accusing my window 10 vm thru inc
• 3137[19:45:44] <newbie_> VNC
• 3138[19:46:05] <newbie_> when I hit ctrl alt left to get out of vnc fullscreen window I cannot click on anything
• 3139[19:46:19] <newbie_> the mouse moves into Debian but I cannot click anything
• 3140[19:46:24] <newbie_> not even in the windows 10 VM
• 3141[19:46:25] <newbie_> please help
• 3142[19:46:31] <newbie_> working ...right now I need this to work
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• 3144[19:47:18] <newbie_> the mouse is moving everywhere but clicking has no effect
• 3145[19:47:22] <newbie_> Input needed
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• 3147[19:47:31] *** Joins: spacemn (~dnc@replaced-ip)
• 3148[19:47:34] <newbie_> VM is still responsive
• 3149[19:47:39] <newbie_> via alt tab
• 3150[19:48:00] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1763
• 3151[19:49:10] <zykotick9> newbie_: what vnc client software are you using? perhaps try a different one? good luck.
• 3152[19:49:10] *** Joins: andmizyk (~andmizyk@replaced-ip)
• 3153[19:49:23] <newbie_> VNC client that came with debian 8
• 3154[19:49:29] *** Quits: DammitJim (~DammitJim@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 3155[19:49:44] <newbie_> funny thing is i can click on anything inside debian 8 either
• 3156[19:49:46] <newbie_> but mouse mvoes
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• 3158[19:49:58] * zykotick9 has no idea what that might be... his debian jessie didn't come with a vnc client (and he hasn't installed one)
• 3159[19:50:00] <newbie_> I si see the system monitor updating stats
• 3160[19:50:13] <newbie_> hmmm ok
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• 3163[19:50:57] <zykotick9> newbie_: but i'm sure there are a couple of vnc clients in the default repo. my _only_ suggestion is try a different one... good luck.
• 3164[19:51:38] <newbie_> ok
• 3165[19:51:40] <newbie_> thanks
• 3166[19:53:00] <newbie_> its vinargre
• 3167[19:53:03] <newbie_> whats a good one?
• 3168[19:53:22] <newbie_> Vinagre for gnome
• 3169[19:53:57] <zykotick9> newbie_: one method for looking for software from terminal is "apt search vnc" i have no suggestions for a vnc client
• 3170[19:54:10] <newbie_> ok
• 3171[19:54:14] <newbie_> thx
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• 3174[19:56:01] <pugfantus> newbie_: I like remmina, which will do both VNC and RDP
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• 3178[19:57:05] <newbie_> Pugfantus:thanks!
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• 3192[20:02:12] <newbie_> I need to read a good debian 8 admin guide
• 3193[20:02:16] <newbie_> i get stuck a lot
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• 3200[20:04:18] <snooops> hi im trying to install debian on my android (replaced-url
• 3201[20:04:21] <snooops> im using jessie
• 3202[20:04:29] <snooops> any idea what im doing wrong?
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• 3206[20:06:15] <snooops> ah copy paste error ;)
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• 3210[20:07:11] <pugfantus> snooops: double check your bootstrap command, be sure your slashes are going the right way
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• 3215[20:09:32] <newbie_> double check all commands
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• 3218[20:09:39] <newbie_> {]
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• 3222[20:10:08] <snooops> hmm, thats my mount
• 3223[20:10:13] <snooops> : /dev/sdb1 /mnt vfat rw,relatime,fmask=0022,dmask=0022,codepage=437,iocharset=utf8,shortname=mixed,errors=remount-ro 0 0
• 3224[20:10:16] *** Quits: cyphase (~cyphase@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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• 3226[20:10:26] <snooops> and i get: mknod: '/mnt/debian/test-dev-null': Operation not permitted
• 3227[20:10:26] <snooops> E: Cannot install into target '/mnt/debian' mounted with noexec or nodev
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• 3230[20:10:49] <snooops> ah forget it
• 3231[20:10:50] <snooops> its fat
• 3232[20:10:52] <snooops> not ext3
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• 3234[20:11:03] <snooops> man i should stop drinking beer during this stuff
• 3235[20:11:36] <newbie_> dink spurlina
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• 3237[20:11:45] <newbie_> pond scum
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• 3240[20:11:55] <newbie_> keeps you alert
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• 3254[20:16:13] <Wotac> i installed debian for my new T430 thinkpad, but the brightness control doesn't work, is it fixable?
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• 3259[20:18:25] <DammitJim> Wotac, what window manager?
• 3260[20:18:52] <Wotac> looks like it's muffin, i installed cinnamon
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• 3263[20:19:56] <abrotman> Wotac: there are a few applets, you can try xbacklight
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• 3272[20:23:16] <Wotac> is that a panel applet?
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• 3280[20:26:31] <Wotac> ok i check it and installed it, but trying to do "xbacklight -set 100" doesn't increase the brightness
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• 3303[20:34:02] <DeaDSouL> peterrooney: sorry bro I was away... about '/dev/video0', it's owned by root, and belongs to 'video' group... I've removed 'video' group from the groups I'm a member in, by `gpasswd -d deadsoul video` ... logged out, logged in... and I still can run the webcam
• 3304[20:34:32] *** Joins: CutMeOwnThroat (~k@replaced-ip)
• 3305[20:34:45] <DeaDSouL> ops... meant ~> petn-randall: ^
• 3306[20:35:01] <random_anon> guys could you explain me why .../.config/autostart is owned by normal user, not root?
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• 3310[20:36:16] <DeaDSouL> random_anon: what is the absolute path of '../.config/autostart' ?
• 3311[20:36:24] <zykotick9> random_anon: is the full path /home/X/.conf/autostart?
• 3312[20:36:37] <DeaDSouL> zykotick9: then the owner shoud be 'X'
• 3313[20:36:39] <CutMeOwnThroat> if you can explain why you think something in your home directory should be owned by root…
• 3314[20:37:01] <zykotick9> DeaDSouL: i agree.
• 3315[20:37:29] *** Quits: sw6x79 (~the__use_@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 3316[20:37:30] <random_anon> DeaDSouL: /home/username/.config
• 3317[20:37:48] <DeaDSouL> random_anon: the owner should be 'username' then
• 3318[20:38:01] <zykotick9> random_anon: is things ARE owned by root in a user's home directory <- THAT is a problem
• 3319[20:38:09] <zykotick9> s/is things/if things/
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• 3322[20:38:44] <DeaDSouL> random_anon: in general everything in user's home.. should be owned by him.
• 3323[20:40:05] <random_anon> but its potential security lack
• 3324[20:40:19] *** Quits: soee_ (~soee@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
• 3325[20:40:26] <greycat> random_anon: if the user has write permission on her own home directory, she can REMOVE the file you placed there and make a new one in its place.
• 3326[20:41:00] <DeaDSouL> random_anon: because if you're a normal user, the only place you can create/edit/delete things on the system, is in your home directory.
• 3327[20:41:33] <DeaDSouL> random_anon: no, it can be if you play with the group permission of anything in your home directory
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• 3329[20:41:55] <DeaDSouL> s/no, it/no, but it/
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• 3331[20:42:01] <random_anon> but most of people dont check this directory, so potentially there can be bad code placed there
• 3332[20:42:21] <atralheaven> Hi, is KDE available in the backport repos? if yes, which version is there? thanks
• 3333[20:42:34] *** Quits: bfit (~bfit@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 3334[20:42:45] <missmbob> no
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• 3337[20:43:28] <DeaDSouL> random_anon: unless it's executable and executed by the owner
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• 3341[20:43:57] <DeaDSouL> random_anon: besides, again, it will take affect only to the places (dirs/files) owned by that user
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• 3343[20:44:21] <DeaDSouL> *effect
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• 3347[20:47:22] <random_anon> but most of people have important data in their /home so spyware can regularly read and send it to attacker.
• 3348[20:47:53] <rainfyre> random_anon: do you have a different suggestion about where a user's file's shouls be or something?
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• 3350[20:48:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1763
• 3351[20:48:45] <random_anon> not files, autostart imho should be owned by root.
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• 3354[20:49:16] <nkuttler> ,v mp3gain
• 3355[20:49:17] <judd> Package: mp3gain on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.5.2-r2-2+deb7u1
• 3356[20:49:32] <nkuttler> um. isn't it some policy violation or something if a package suggests a package that doesn't exist any more?
• 3357[20:49:40] <DeaDSouL> random_anon: ops. i misunderstood what you said... well, what if you want to modify/delete them then ?
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• 3360[20:50:37] <DeaDSouL> random_anon: then you will have to become root... what if you can NOT be root ? ;)
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• 3364[20:51:15] <_rubik> Hey guys, does anyone know where I can find a built copy of xcb-util-xrm?
• 3365[20:51:26] <Wotac> i forgot to mention about my brightness problem that i do see the icon on the screen but there's no bar under it which increases or decreases
• 3366[20:51:55] *** Quits: InfoTest (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: InfoTest)
• 3367[20:51:59] <rainfyre> random_anon: autostart is different for different users though
• 3368[20:52:00] <random_anon> DeaDSouL i think most of people use desktop debian have root pass'
• 3369[20:52:09] *** Quits: soee (~soee@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 3370[20:52:24] <DeaDSouL> random_anon: what if that system is being used by more than one physical user?
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• 3372[20:53:13] <DeaDSouL> random_anon: giving the root password to all users. is indeeeed bad idea
• 3373[20:53:56] <random_anon> DeaDSouL visudo + group of users
• 3374[20:54:52] *** Quits: poleprogger (~mj@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
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• 3376[20:55:03] *** Quits: smdrz (~smdrz@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 3377[20:55:18] <DeaDSouL> random_anon: same thing... sudo is another way to do root's job ;) it gives the users the power of root, just without telling them what is the root's password
• 3378[20:55:51] <random_anon> DeaDSouL visudo != sudo
• 3379[20:56:13] <DeaDSouL> random_anon: if you want to let it be owned by root... try it yourself and seel `chown root:root /home/username/.config/autostart`
• 3380[20:56:36] *** Joins: jazz (~jazz@replaced-ip)
• 3381[20:56:39] <rainfyre> ^^
• 3382[20:56:45] <CutMeOwnThroat> random_anon, if you made it be owned by root, the user can still rename the directory and make a new one
• 3383[20:56:47] <random_anon> i really know how to do it, bro
• 3384[20:57:01] <greycat> random_anon: and then as your user, try "rm -f /home/username/.config/autostart" and watch the fun.
• 3385[20:57:09] *** Quits: macartur (uid39242@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
• 3386[20:57:11] <random_anon> CutMeOwnThroat: ???
• 3387[20:57:26] <CutMeOwnThroat> random_anon, and it makes the thing of having user-configured files like .bashrc or autostart pretty much moot, no?
• 3388[20:57:54] <DeaDSouL> random_anon: but you're gonna make the users sudoers.. aren't you?
• 3389[20:57:58] <CutMeOwnThroat> random_anon, the user still owns .config, else every other program couldn't make directories for their config there?
• 3390[20:58:03] <greycat> 14:40 greycat> random_anon: if the user has write permission on her own home directory, she can REMOVE the file you placed there and make a new one in its place.
• 3391[20:58:36] <CutMeOwnThroat> greycat, you cannot remove a directory with files in it because you cannot remove the files inside… but yeah, same thing
• 3392[20:58:43] <CutMeOwnThroat> (nearly same thing)
• 3393[20:58:49] *** Joins: jandrusk_ (~jra@replaced-ip)
• 3394[20:58:54] <greycat> the user can remove ~/.config/root-owned-file
• 3395[20:59:39] <CutMeOwnThroat> yes, but not ~/.config/root-owned-dir/ if it has files inside (which would be this case)
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• 3399[21:00:55] <random_anon> DeaDSouL: no, using visudo you can give permission even to a single file
• 3400[21:01:01] *** Quits: abramelin (~Abramelin@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3401[21:01:25] *** Quits: crayon (~user@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 3402[21:02:06] <random_anon> CutMeOwnThroat: app that want to edit .config should ask about permission
• 3403[21:02:38] <DeaDSouL> random_anon: ok, what exactly you're saying you can do to '.../autostart' with visudo?
• 3404[21:02:41] *** Quits: dee (~dee@replaced-ip) (Quit: dee)
• 3405[21:02:52] <CutMeOwnThroat> random_anon, there are enough other config files that cannot be modified by the user
• 3406[21:02:58] *** Joins: sveva65 (~sverre@replaced-ip)
• 3407[21:03:28] *** Quits: cyphase (~cyphase@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 3408[21:03:32] <CutMeOwnThroat> the point of a user configuration is that the user can configure it
• 3409[21:03:40] *** Quits: samurailink3 (~samuraili@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
• 3410[21:03:48] *** Quits: jazz (~jazz@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3411[21:03:59] <`Kevin> ^
• 3412[21:04:40] *** Joins: Guest86 (~textual@replaced-ip)
• 3413[21:04:45] <CutMeOwnThroat> what you're saying is a bit like water should be dry so people can't drown in it… I think that's why everyone finds it a mite bit hard to respond
• 3414[21:04:56] <`Kevin> in response to the orig question by random_anon why wouldn't something in someones homedir be owned by them?...
• 3415[21:06:08] <snooops> hmm, following this, my android needs to be able to read ext3 partitions right? replaced-url
• 3416[21:06:23] *** Quits: slax0r (slax0r@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 3417[21:06:39] <CutMeOwnThroat> `Kevin, that's the first thing that I asked!
• 3418[21:06:45] <CutMeOwnThroat> he never answered it, though
• 3419[21:06:45] <`Kevin> CutMeOwnThroat: ;)
• 3420[21:07:22] *** Joins: cyphase (~cyphase@replaced-ip)
• 3421[21:08:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1756
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• 3424[21:09:01] *** Quits: LNJ2GO (~lnj@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3425[21:09:03] <random_anon> CutMeOwnThroat: its lie, at 20:48:45 i wrote - not files, autostart imho should be owned by root.
• 3426[21:09:30] <CutMeOwnThroat> so?
• 3427[21:09:53] *** Joins: loopy (~loopy@replaced-ip)
• 3428[21:10:34] <`Kevin> whats so special about autostart?
• 3429[21:11:35] <random_anon> `Kevin: malvare often use autostart
• 3430[21:11:50] *** Quits: gnupyx (5c9d6cf6@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 3431[21:12:04] <`Kevin> and how are you getting malware
• 3432[21:12:21] *** Joins: poleprogger (~mj@replaced-ip)
• 3433[21:12:59] <`Kevin> wouldnt that be a larger issue than autostart.. once something is on the machine thats it
• 3434[21:13:06] <greycat> I think he's just making shit up.
• 3435[21:13:07] *** Joins: ewanas (~foocraft@replaced-ip)
• 3436[21:13:19] <greycat> He didn't even know how permissions work, so I have absolutely no faith in his claims.
• 3437[21:13:50] *** Joins: cdown_ (~cdown@replaced-ip)
• 3438[21:13:51] <`Kevin> ah
• 3439[21:14:11] <CutMeOwnThroat> windows malware often uses windows autostart
• 3440[21:14:15] * zykotick9 was under the imression from "malvare often use autostart" that this might be someone who is a recent microsoft convert...
• 3441[21:15:33] <greycat> If the user is a recent Windows refugee and thought that making the "autostart directory" (whatever THAT is) unwritable would block the emplacement of new malicious software, then the statements begin to make some sense.
• 3442[21:15:34] <CutMeOwnThroat> the usb autostart thingy, that is… which isn't the same at all
• 3443[21:16:12] *** Quits: cyphase (~cyphase@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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• 3448[21:17:19] <CutMeOwnThroat> `Kevin, you're right, I can't see o
• 3449[21:17:44] *** Joins: MrNeon (~MrNeon@replaced-ip)
• 3450[21:17:47] <CutMeOwnThroat> `Kevin, you're right, I can't see how this is much of an attack vector (enter fail)
• 3451[21:17:48] *** Joins: NeonSynth (~NeonSynth@replaced-ip)
• 3452[21:18:03] <`Kevin> how is it different than crontab
• 3453[21:18:08] <`Kevin> yea
• 3454[21:18:10] <unborn> guys keep focused on debian please..
• 3455[21:18:14] *** Joins: cyan__ (~cyan@replaced-ip)
• 3456[21:18:40] *** Quits: pavlushka (~Pavel@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection timed out)
• 3457[21:18:41] <unborn> windows is and will be here as an exploit just forget it.
• 3458[21:18:42] <CutMeOwnThroat> or… obviously it is, if something can overwrite files with arbitrary content
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• 3464[21:21:44] *** Quits: poleprogger (~mj@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 3465[21:21:57] <`Kevin> unborn: i believe we are still remaining focused on debian as a whole but rather simply trying to understand where the question stemmed/surfaced from
• 3466[21:22:29] <`Kevin> which was more important that answering the question itself in this case..
• 3467[21:22:31] *** Joins: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip)
• 3468[21:22:42] <CutMeOwnThroat> maybe he just took a windows truism to linux
• 3469[21:22:49] *** Quits: spacemn (~dnc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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• 3472[21:23:59] *** Quits: adrian (~adrian@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 3473[21:24:47] <CutMeOwnThroat> a lot of the unix , well, irix exploits of the 90ies were stuff like… find one of those hideously big graphical applications running as root and have them overwrite something (like etc/passwd)
• 3474[21:24:53] <unborn> kevin - I believe windows 7 is outdated and user may speaks for windows 8 or and 10 or and plus higher version which true root on that system is outside ergo located somewhere out - even local admin is just user with higher privileges - windows 8+ is leased not owned so if you cannot be root and controlling your system really as there is some other hyperuser playing around - would be - why to waste time - you know time the thing which will never come
• 3475[21:24:53] <unborn> back to you..
• 3476[21:25:01] *** Joins: TomasCZ (~TomasCZ@replaced-ip)
• 3477[21:25:29] <unborn> just - really? :)
• 3478[21:26:02] *** Quits: random_anon (~Icedove@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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• 3484[21:28:58] <`Kevin> unborn: twas just a few people venting after trying to help the guy out for awhile until everyone realized it was a windows based question :) thats all
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• 3490[21:29:45] *** Joins: HolySh-t (~~@replaced-ip)
• 3491[21:30:01] <HolySh-t> hello debs, what do I do if I want to get a fresh nano?
• 3492[21:30:08] *** Joins: sypher (sypher@replaced-ip)
• 3493[21:30:14] *** Quits: sypher (sypher@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 3494[21:30:47] <missmbob> !ssb
• 3495[21:30:47] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
• 3496[21:30:50] *** Joins: sypher (sypher@replaced-ip)
• 3497[21:30:58] <petn-randall> HolySh-t: What are you missing in the one coming in Debian?
• 3498[21:31:03] *** Parts: atralheaven (~atrlhvn@replaced-ip)
• 3499[21:31:36] *** Parts: gustavo_ (~gustavo@replaced-ip)
• 3500[21:32:35] <HolySh-t> petn-randall: just read the news that fresh version of nano (2.7) has a feature of selecting text via arrow keys while shift is held down. That's what I was dreaming of.
• 3501[21:33:40] *** Joins: ruied (~ruied@replaced-ip)
• 3502[21:34:00] *** Joins: cyphase (~cyphase@replaced-ip)
• 3503[21:34:16] <zykotick9> <sns> for nano... not emacs... not vim... nano! i think i've seen almost everything now ;)
• 3504[21:34:26] *** Joins: xet7 (~xet7@replaced-ip)
• 3505[21:35:39] <sypher> zykotick9: cat has this new thing... ;)
• 3506[21:37:04] *** Quits: inhetep (~inhetep@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 1.5)
• 3507[21:37:46] <dStruct> copy con? anyone? bueller?
• 3508[21:38:23] <missmbob> HolySh-t: here. i just packaged 2.7.0 for jessie. replaced-url
• 3509[21:38:24] <greycat> the unix equivalent of "copy con foo" is "cat >foo"
• 3510[21:38:38] <greycat> end with Ctrl-D on a new line
• 3511[21:38:49] * unborn passes to `Kevin tea :) all good..
• 3512[21:39:20] <jhutchins_wk> edlin
• 3513[21:39:53] <HolySh-t> missmbob: thank you, but I prefer official channels of software distribution.
• 3514[21:40:01] *** Joins: Phryq (~Phryq_@replaced-ip)
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• 3518[21:40:33] *** Joins: murfjr (~douseiais@replaced-ip)
• 3519[21:40:54] <missmbob> HolySh-t: well there isnt one :P besides i did it for myself when i heard about the feature. just thought i'd offer. works really well...cool stuff
• 3520[21:41:30] *** Joins: incorrectime (a801063d@replaced-ip)
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• 3525[21:42:41] *** Joins: _barto_ (~Freddy@replaced-ip)
• 3526[21:42:51] <incorrectime> hello, is there a reason why system time falls behind over time and you must sync with an ntp server to be accurate again?
• 3527[21:43:16] *** Quits: m3tti (~metti@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3528[21:43:17] <sypher> incorrectime: replaced-url
• 3529[21:43:26] *** Quits: nebg_ (~nebg@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
• 3530[21:43:36] *** Joins: climjark (~climjark@replaced-ip)
• 3531[21:43:50] <missmbob> incorrectime: this will help replaced-url
• 3532[21:43:52] *** Quits: cyphase (~cyphase@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 3533[21:44:12] <HolySh-t> missmbob: I hope it gets to bpo soon…
• 3534[21:44:21] <sypher> HolySh-t: It's not even in sid yet.
• 3535[21:44:26] *** Quits: Dreaman (~show@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3536[21:44:58] *** Quits: Reiko27 (~Reiko2@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3537[21:45:11] <HolySh-t> I don't really understand why people would prefer codenames or just word-names for OS versions instead of numbers…
• 3538[21:45:30] <jhutchins_wk> HolySh-t: It humanises the projects.
• 3539[21:45:47] *** Quits: DonPablo (Maxxe@replaced-ip) ()
• 3540[21:45:47] <jhutchins_wk> HolySh-t: Why would you use nano when you have vi?
• 3541[21:46:02] *** Joins: Maxxe_ (Maxxe@replaced-ip)
• 3542[21:46:04] *** H4ndy is now known as h4ndy
• 3543[21:46:06] <iKarith> That'd be a really useful package and I'd use it. :)
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• 3548[21:46:15] *** Joins: Maxxe` (Maxxe@replaced-ip)
• 3549[21:46:18] <HolySh-t> jhutchins_wk: because they are different and I prefer nano over vi, I'm not going to learn a ton of hotkeys by heart.
• 3550[21:46:20] <jhutchins_wk> vi already has the visual markup.
• 3551[21:46:21] <tom99> I use nano because vi doesn't work in my virtualbox debian for some reason
• 3552[21:46:36] <tom99> I try the :q and :w commands and they just give errors
• 3553[21:46:36] *** Joins: Reiko2 (~Reiko2@replaced-ip)
• 3554[21:46:45] *** Quits: RamPage (~R@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 3555[21:46:53] <jhutchins_wk> tom99: Fix your termcap.
• 3556[21:46:58] *** Joins: rstar (4f882f95@replaced-ip)
• 3557[21:47:01] <tom99> jhutchins_wk, my what?
• 3558[21:47:02] <HolySh-t> termcap?
• 3559[21:47:08] <rstar> anyone running debian chrooted on android here?
• 3560[21:47:11] <iKarith> who still uses a termcap?
• 3561[21:47:19] <HolySh-t> what is a termcap?
• 3562[21:47:20] <jhutchins_wk> iKarith: Anybody who uses a console.
• 3563[21:47:27] *** Joins: hualet (~hualet@replaced-ip)
• 3564[21:47:36] <iKarith> jhutchins_wk: I use a terminfo :)
• 3565[21:47:45] <HolySh-t> oh, it's 'terminal capability'
• 3566[21:47:51] <jhutchins_wk> HolySh-t: It describes your terminals capabilities, what keycodes it sends, what font it uses, etc.
• 3567[21:48:00] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1762
• 3568[21:48:06] <HolySh-t> jhutchins_wk: proceed with defaults, ok, ok, cancel
• 3569[21:48:12] *** Quits: thezanke (~thezanke@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 3570[21:48:17] <jhutchins_wk> HolySh-t: Things like whether it can backspace or highlight or underline.
• 3571[21:48:19] <sypher> !tell rstar -about polls
• 3572[21:48:43] *** Joins: cyphase (~cyphase@replaced-ip)
• 3573[21:48:56] <HolySh-t> I doubt these things do really need to be configurable
• 3574[21:49:16] <iKarith> HolySh-t: You'd be shocked, honestly, how necessary they are.
• 3575[21:49:31] <jhutchins_wk> HolySh-t: That would be the most likely way to fix a problem like that.
• 3576[21:49:55] <jhutchins_wk> The most common problem these days is that Windows terminal clients don't send the right ID.
• 3577[21:50:05] <HolySh-t> I am running debian in virtualbox too and vi works there, so I can't really tell…
• 3578[21:50:14] *** Quits: ilyaman (ilyaman@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3579[21:50:26] <HolySh-t> [w7 here]
• 3580[21:50:37] <jhutchins_wk> HolySh-t: You're probably connecting with a different client than tom99
• 3581[21:50:46] <iKarith> HolySh-t: nowadays there are a number of standards, formal and informal, for how a terminal should behave. But back in the day, terminals were like Netscape and MSIE. As in the 3.x/4.x daze.
• 3582[21:51:19] <HolySh-t> iKarith: yeah, but days of netscape vs msie are long gone.
• 3583[21:51:25] *** Parts: rstar (4f882f95@replaced-ip)
• 3584[21:51:33] *** Joins: manizzle (~manizzle@replaced-ip)
• 3585[21:51:39] <manizzle> hey guys. im in dependency hell
• 3586[21:51:40] <AciD`> hey, I just got my hand on a very old computer (Dell Optiplex 170L with a windows xp on it), I'm trying to install Debian on it and so far I could start on the usb key with the netinstall iso. The installation process stopped saying "Unable to detect and mount the CD", which is weird since I'm using a usb key
• 3587[21:51:41] <manizzle> i cant install gcc
• 3588[21:51:42] <iKarith> HolySh-t: Right, but every modern browser still has code for detecting that crap and working around the bugs.
• 3589[21:51:57] <missmbob> !tell manizzle about bat
• 3590[21:52:05] <AciD`> would you know how to fix that? (also, I cannot find a way to start again on the usb key since then :x)
• 3591[21:52:06] *** Joins: diniwed (~gavron@replaced-ip)
• 3592[21:52:08] *** Joins: deeb (~dee@replaced-ip)
• 3593[21:52:14] <manizzle> replaced-url
• 3594[21:52:15] *** Quits: hualet (~hualet@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 3595[21:52:33] <HolySh-t> well, you are probably right, I don't know the details.
• 3596[21:52:49] <jhutchins_wk> AciD`: That's a frequent failure when the drive is prepared with unetbootin on WIndows.
• 3597[21:52:52] <missmbob> manizzle: and the rest the bot asked for
• 3598[21:52:52] <HolySh-t> from a noob user's perspective - one shouldn't be dealing with such bugs anymore
• 3599[21:52:56] *** Quits: Qommand0r (~HENKiE@replaced-ip) (Quit: Exiting...)
• 3600[21:52:56] *** Joins: _Vi (~vi@replaced-ip)
• 3601[21:53:12] <AciD`> jhutchins_wk -> I created the usb key from within a kubuntu 16.04 though
• 3602[21:53:17] <jhutchins_wk> HolySh-t: Solaris.
• 3603[21:53:26] *** Joins: paw (~afong@replaced-ip)
• 3604[21:53:28] <jhutchins_wk> AciD`: WHat tool did you use?
• 3605[21:53:32] <AciD`> I'll try from another computer
• 3606[21:53:32] <manizzle> missmbob, replaced-url
• 3607[21:53:38] <jhutchins_wk> AciD`: Did you verify the checksum?
• 3608[21:53:38] <iKarith> HolySh-t: the biggest problem is that writing a terminal emulator is hard, and there's more than one way to do it, and the result is that there are a number of incompatibilities in two attempts to write the same exact function.
• 3609[21:53:55] <AciD`> jhutchins_wk -> usb-creator-kde
• 3610[21:54:11] <jhutchins_wk> AciD`: There is also an image that is supposed to do that - boot from the image because you can't boot from a CD.
• 3611[21:54:23] <jhutchins_wk> AciD`: It was originally intended for floppies.
• 3612[21:54:39] *** Joins: Qommand0r (~HENKiE@replaced-ip)
• 3613[21:54:43] *** Joins: m3tti (~metti@replaced-ip)
• 3614[21:54:44] <lroe> Is there a tool that tells me how many dependencies I would have to SSB in order to SSB a package?
• 3615[21:54:46] <manizzle> missmbob, replaced-url
• 3616[21:54:51] <AciD`> jhutchins_wk -> what do you mean by " There is also an image that is supposed to do that - boot from the image because you can't boot from a CD"? The netinstall iso is 550Mio
• 3617[21:55:27] <iKarith> HolySh-t: And some of the legacy issues are still there. For example, a USB keyboard doesn't send Unicode to the computer. It sends "key number <n> pressed". What does that mean? There are standards for that, but <n> is a number between 0 and 255. There are how many characters in Unicode?
• 3618[21:55:29] *** Quits: user123irc (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3619[21:55:33] <jhutchins_wk> AciD`: From simpler times.
• 3620[21:55:52] *** Joins: nebg_ (~nebg@replaced-ip)
• 3621[21:56:01] <AciD`> jhutchins_wk -> out of despair, I tried booting to the current windows xp installation, and install it from there, but that os is so old it detect my usb key, but just does not want to show it to me. I do hate windows.
• 3622[21:56:14] *** zz_capri is now known as capri
• 3623[21:56:28] <iKarith> So you need to select your keyboard's language and mapping. Again fortunately there are standards here. But they vary by language, country, and even device manufacturer at least a little.
• 3624[21:56:29] <HolySh-t> iKarith: in windows each keyboard key has a VK (virtual key) code and a SC (scan code).
• 3625[21:56:34] *** Quits: deeb (~dee@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 3626[21:56:55] <HolySh-t> keyboard doesn't have a language
• 3627[21:56:55] <jhutchins_wk> AciD`: I don't believe the installer will run under windows. You need to boot an image. I don't remember if DI uses isolinux or what.
• 3628[21:57:09] <AciD`> DI?
• 3629[21:57:13] <AciD`> ah
• 3630[21:57:14] <jhutchins_wk> Debian Installer.
• 3631[21:57:15] <AciD`> debian installer
• 3632[21:57:31] <AciD`> well, I'll try recreating the usb key just in case
• 3633[21:57:47] <AciD`> from another computer
• 3634[21:58:22] <jhutchins_wk> AciD`: Check your md5sums, use dd or cp or cat.
• 3635[21:58:26] <iKarith> HolySh-t: In Linux, Input Core makes all keyboards internally USB HID like. Whatever physical protocol they use gets translated into a stack of 256 up or down states. Few keyboards can actually have more than a few keys pressed, but if yours can, Linux can cope.
• 3636[21:59:23] *** Quits: incorrectime (a801063d@replaced-ip) (Quit: Page closed)
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• 3643[22:03:09] <tom99> HolySh-t, I have the terminal open now
• 3644[22:03:15] <tom99> It's gnome-terminal in wheezy
• 3645[22:03:38] <iKarith> HolySh-t: but even that's irrelevant because by the time you're talking about terminal emulators, everything's a serial stream, like you'd send over a modem to a BBS back in the day.
• 3646[22:03:40] *** Quits: lucaswang (~lucaswang@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
• 3647[22:03:52] *** Quits: czesmir (~stefan@replaced-ip) (Quit: Lost terminal)
• 3648[22:04:10] <tom99> backspace key generates Ascii DEL
• 3649[22:04:12] *** Joins: Xizor (~Xizor@replaced-ip)
• 3650[22:04:31] <tom99> delete key generates escape sequence
• 3651[22:04:37] <tom99> nothing here about the : key generating something weird
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• 3653[22:04:55] *** Quits: baptist1 (~baptsk@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3654[22:05:14] <tom99> first problem is I can't navigate with <- -> ^ and v
• 3655[22:05:15] *** Joins: SmearedBeard (~SmearedBe@replaced-ip)
• 3656[22:05:22] <tom99> I have to use ijkl
• 3657[22:05:37] <tom99> when I hit the down arrow key it produces B in the terminal
• 3658[22:05:38] <tom99> B
• 3659[22:05:38] <tom99> B
• 3660[22:05:38] <tom99> B
• 3661[22:05:39] <tom99> B
• 3662[22:05:39] *** tom99 was kicked by debhelper (flood. Please use replaced-url
• 3663[22:05:39] *** Quits: b3h3m0th (uid26288@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
• 3664[22:05:42] <jhutchins_wk> tom99: Which is why that capability is there.
• 3665[22:05:49] *** Joins: tom99 (~tom99@replaced-ip)
• 3666[22:06:09] <rsync> hi.. maybe someone can help me? I have the exact same prob described on the whonix page :
• 3667[22:06:11] <rsync> The KVM qxl package: xserver-xorg-video-qxl suffers from performance bugs caused by the Xorg surfaces feature. You will notice the graphics lagging even during mundane tasks such as scrolling down a webpage. This has been reported extensively and fixed upstream in testing. Until testing becomes stable, a workaround provided by a Whonix package is available.[2][3]
• 3668[22:06:11] <rsync> In the guest install the fix:
• 3669[22:06:11] <rsync> sudo apt-get install qxl-xorg-enhance
• 3670[22:06:16] <iKarith> In fact, that's what the first terminals were. BBSes by the time you might have ever seen one were called using terminal programs that tried to emulate the old school hardware terminals.
• 3671[22:06:23] *** Quits: climjark (~climjark@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 3672[22:06:27] <rsync> i have stable.. how can i fix this manually?
• 3673[22:06:33] *** Quits: cyphase (~cyphase@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 3674[22:06:34] <iKarith> tom99: at command line, "echo $TERM"
• 3675[22:06:40] <tom99> ikarith: yeah i've never even seen a hardware terminal in real life, so I only know them as folklore
• 3676[22:06:54] *** Quits: Phibonacci_ (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 3677[22:06:56] *** Quits: iSlayWyverns (~uid18915@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed)
• 3678[22:07:01] *** Quits: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 3679[22:07:04] <tom99> ikarith: it says xterm
• 3680[22:07:13] <tom99> and the process name is gnome-terminal
• 3681[22:07:26] <rsync> is there a way to fix this bug in stable without provocing conflicts or instabilities on the system?
• 3682[22:07:30] <iKarith> on the VM where arrows don't work it says xterm?
• 3683[22:07:36] <jhutchins_wk> iKarith: Early terminals were teletypes - frequently "connected" by paper punch-tape.
• 3684[22:07:43] *** Joins: shinnya (~shinnya@replaced-ip)
• 3685[22:07:43] <tom99> yes. I'm in a debian virtual machine by the way. host system is windows 7
• 3686[22:07:53] <tom99> I managed to get :q to work
• 3687[22:07:58] <tom99> but i had to hit escape first a few times
• 3688[22:08:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1756
• 3689[22:08:07] <iKarith> jhutchins_wk: That's more history than someone for whom Netscape/MSIE were ancient history probably wants. :)
• 3690[22:08:08] <greycat> I've only seen a teletype *once* and I never had to use it directly. It was the console for a very old unix system.
• 3691[22:08:30] <iKarith> jhutchins_wk: I've even only ever seen two teletype machines myself.
• 3692[22:08:38] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: Last tty console I saw was a Univac.
• 3693[22:08:48] *** Joins: rudar (~rudar@replaced-ip)
• 3694[22:08:51] *** Joins: RamPage (~R@replaced-ip)
• 3695[22:08:58] <tom99> iKarith: all the letters symbols and numbers on my keyboard seem to work though
• 3696[22:09:02] *** Joins: climjark (~climjark@replaced-ip)
• 3697[22:09:11] <iKarith> tom99: what version of vi are you using?
• 3698[22:09:19] <jhutchins_wk> I played an early version of Asteroids (Space Wars) on a system that loaded it from paper tape. Might have been a DEC PDP1.
• 3699[22:09:25] <jhutchins_wk> Round CRT display.
• 3700[22:09:39] <greycat> The first question is whether TERM=xterm is *correct* for gnome-terminal, or not. I don't know.
• 3701[22:09:44] <iKarith> nvi for example is supposed to be "vi, dammit! None of this kiddie vim crap!"
• 3702[22:09:50] <iKarith> also, get off nvi's lawn.
• 3703[22:10:06] *** Quits: ffatman (~ffamousff@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3704[22:10:08] *** Quits: _polto_ (~polto@replaced-ip) (Quit: Quitte)
• 3705[22:10:28] <jhutchins_wk> tom99: Are you sure you're getting clean keyscans? I had a keyboard where a mold sprue hung the Q and W together. A bit of a problem if your password contained a Q.
• 3706[22:11:04] <manizzle> i dont even know how i got gcc-4.9-base here
• 3707[22:11:07] <manizzle> on wheezy
• 3708[22:11:13] <greycat> frankendebian
• 3709[22:11:15] <jhutchins_wk> iKarith: Is that distinct from vim-minimal?
• 3710[22:11:24] <tom99> It says VIM - Vi IMproved 7.3
• 3711[22:11:27] *** Joins: zlatan (~Zlatan@replaced-ip)
• 3712[22:11:32] *** Parts: zlatan (~Zlatan@replaced-ip)
• 3713[22:11:37] <manizzle> replaced-url
• 3714[22:11:42] <manizzle> can someone help please?
• 3715[22:11:50] <tom99> greycat: idk, i just installed wheezy and clicked on Terminal in the menu
• 3716[22:11:53] <iKarith> jhutchins_wk: vim-tiny has a lot of the fancy features turned off.
• 3717[22:11:56] <teraflops> gnome-terminal used to do xterm-256color
• 3718[22:12:00] *** Joins: cyphase (~cyphase@replaced-ip)
• 3719[22:12:26] <tom99> I do have vim-tiny installed on my system
• 3720[22:12:32] *** Quits: _barto_ (~Freddy@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3721[22:12:37] <tom99> Is that the vim I'm using? it didn't say anything like that when I typed vi --version
• 3722[22:12:40] <iKarith> tom99: try vim.tiny then
• 3723[22:12:56] <iKarith> see if your arrows work then
• 3724[22:13:03] <jhutchins_wk> tom99: If you're root, vi is usually aliased to tiny.
• 3725[22:13:09] <HolySh-t> missmbob: btw, what's the difference between nano-tiny and nano?
• 3726[22:13:22] <tom99> paste.debian.net/811452 is what i get from vi --version
• 3727[22:13:29] *** Quits: Agiofws (~agiofws@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
• 3728[22:14:00] <iKarith> jhutchins_wk: but the default configuration doesn't usually enable nocompatible or anything IIRC, and vim.tiny is missing all the runtime files that make vim work the way modern users expect.
• 3729[22:14:04] *** Joins: ffatman (~ffamousff@replaced-ip)
• 3730[22:14:33] <iKarith> fundamentally it's still a vi-type editor, which means it has typing mode and beep mode ;)
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• 3733[22:15:19] <tom99> hmm maybe the fault is mine, when I'm entering text is when the BBBB stuff appears.
• 3734[22:15:32] <tom99> although in vi doesn't jkl; move you up down left right?
• 3735[22:15:42] <tom99> my ; key is moving me arbitrary blocks of characters to the right
• 3736[22:15:47] *** Quits: Hurtz (~Hurtz@replaced-ip) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
• 3737[22:15:48] <AciD`> hum, using usb-creator-kde on an older lts version returns "Invalid version string 'GNU/Linux'". I checked and the md5sum for that netinstall iso is ok. Weird
• 3738[22:15:52] <jhutchins_wk> tom99: I've gotten into modes where backspace doesn't work often enough that I rember Ctrl-H
• 3739[22:16:09] <iKarith> tom99: apt-get install vim vim-tiny-
• 3740[22:16:12] *** Joins: _barto_ (~Freddy@replaced-ip)
• 3741[22:16:15] *** Joins: c0mrad3 (uid26809@replaced-ip)
• 3742[22:16:27] <jhutchins_wk> AciD`: dd, cat, cp
• 3743[22:16:37] *** Quits: LostSoul (~LostSoul@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
• 3744[22:16:41] <iKarith> tom99: You'll find it installs a couple of other things as well and takes up more space, but the result will be much more to your liking by default.
• 3745[22:16:44] <jhutchins_wk> AciD`: I forget which is supposed to be faster.
• 3746[22:17:01] *** Joins: LostSoul (~LostSoul@replaced-ip)
• 3747[22:17:29] <jhutchins_wk> dd if=foo.iso of=/dev/sr0
• 3748[22:17:50] <tom99> iKarith: i have a /usr/bin/vi
• 3749[22:18:05] *** Quits: cyborg-one (~cyborg-on@replaced-ip) (Quit: cyborg-one)
• 3750[22:18:10] <tom99> and a /usr/bin/vim.tiny
• 3751[22:18:18] <jhutchins_wk> tom99: Chase that down - you'll find it's in the alternates.
• 3752[22:18:23] <tom99> the vim.tiny one has the arrow keys working normally but ; still goes to end of line. not sure if that's right or not
• 3753[22:18:44] <tom99> iKarith: i don't understand, I already have vim on my system. vim-tiny
• 3754[22:18:48] <jhutchins_wk> tom99: Sounds like ; is being interpreted as $
• 3755[22:18:55] <AciD`> jhutchins_wk -> well, that dd cmd took literally 3 seconds, tops :)
• 3756[22:19:15] <missmbob> dont forget to sync after
• 3757[22:19:45] <AciD`> sync after a dd?
• 3758[22:19:47] <tom99> no $ takes you to end of line, this one just skips characters of different amounts
• 3759[22:20:03] *** Joins: lasdam (lasdam@replaced-ip)
• 3760[22:20:03] <jhutchins_wk> AciD`: Not really.
• 3761[22:20:10] <jhutchins_wk> AciD`: Belt-and-suspenders.
• 3762[22:20:34] *** Quits: th0r (~pi@replaced-ip) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
• 3763[22:20:37] <missmbob> AciD`: i always do
• 3764[22:20:40] <iKarith> tom99: vim.tiny is a stripped down vim with few features and no runtime files. It lacks the standard vim configuration. It tries to more or less behave like standard vi. Standard vi doesn't SUPPORT arrow keys or a bunch of other things.
• 3765[22:20:51] <tom99> When I do apt-get install vim it says it wants to upgrade vim-tiny and install `vim' and `vim-runtime'
• 3766[22:20:56] *** Joins: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip)
• 3767[22:20:57] <iKarith> vim can be configured to behave that way
• 3768[22:21:10] <iKarith> that's normal
• 3769[22:21:10] *** Joins: deeb (~dee@replaced-ip)
• 3770[22:21:15] *** Quits: _barto_ (~Freddy@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3771[22:21:24] <tom99> Well I can just do alias vi `vim-tiny` right
• 3772[22:21:35] *** Quits: Seryth (~Matrix@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 3773[22:21:37] <tom99> but that won't give me all features of vim?
• 3774[22:21:37] <iKarith> You're not understanding.
• 3775[22:21:46] <AciD`> hum, the first time I launch dd, it took 4.94 seconds to complete, the second time it took 38sec
• 3776[22:21:46] <missmbob> AciD`: fyi, it's what the official faq says to do. dd if=<file> of=<device> bs=4M; sync
• 3777[22:21:48] <iKarith> It proabably already is.
• 3778[22:22:03] <iKarith> but vim.tiny is stripped of all its standard features.
• 3779[22:22:04] <AciD`> missmbob -> oh, ok thanks
• 3780[22:22:12] <greycat> If you want all the features of vim, just install vim, then optionalyl double-check that it is the default editor (update-alternatives --config editor)
• 3781[22:22:16] <AciD`> I just did a simple if of, and then sync
• 3782[22:22:30] *** Quits: LostSoul (~LostSoul@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
• 3783[22:22:40] <tom99> well /usr/bin/vi is a symlink to /usr/alternatives/vi
• 3784[22:22:45] *** Quits: cyphase (~cyphase@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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• 3786[22:22:52] *** Joins: LostSoul (~LostSoul@replaced-ip)
• 3787[22:23:00] <greycat> so you can also check update-alternatives --config vi, or follow the second symlink
• 3788[22:23:01] <tom99> and that file wasn't on the list of files installed by vim-tiny when I checked it
• 3789[22:23:06] *** Joins: Seryth (~Matrix@replaced-ip)
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• 3791[22:23:06] *** Joins: Seryth (~Matrix@replaced-ip)
• 3792[22:23:09] <greycat> *sigh*
• 3793[22:23:26] <tom99> what is update-alternatives? I type the command 'update-alternatives --config vi'?
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• 3796[22:23:46] *** Joins: AvatarA (~avatara@replaced-ip)
• 3797[22:23:53] <iKarith> tom99: update-alternatives is one of a few parts of dpkg, the underlying package manager of Debian
• 3798[22:23:54] <missmbob> !tell tom99 about update-alternatives
• 3799[22:23:58] <greycat> update-alternatives is what manages the destinations of those /etc/alternatives/* symlinks for you, if you choose not to just do it yourself with ln
• 3800[22:24:10] <unborn> tom99: and what is the terminal output?
• 3801[22:24:24] *** Quits: LostSoul (~LostSoul@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 3802[22:24:29] <iKarith> it along with dpkg-divert are how packages that provide the same files can do so and be installed at the same time.
• 3803[22:24:36] <tom99> ok I ran the update-alternatives command. It said there is only one alternative which is /usr/bin/vim.tiny
• 3804[22:24:38] <tom99> Nothing to configure
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• 3806[22:24:46] *** Joins: LostSoul (~LostSoul@replaced-ip)
• 3807[22:24:47] *** Joins: hjubal_ (~hjubal@replaced-ip)
• 3808[22:24:51] <unborn> :)
• 3809[22:24:51] <greycat> Are you *sure* you installed vim?
• 3810[22:25:07] <unborn> tom99: ^^^
• 3811[22:25:14] <iKarith> dpkg-divert is the "I'm replacing your file whether you like it or not" way, and update-alternatives is the nice, cooperative mechanism
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• 3813[22:25:20] *** Joins: Aorious (~prakash@replaced-ip)
• 3814[22:25:22] <tom99> No ikarith told me to do that and I typed apt-get install command but haven't approved it yet
• 3815[22:25:27] <tom99> Because I don't understand what the problem is
• 3816[22:25:32] *** Quits: Rust3dCor3 (~Rust3dCor@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3817[22:25:56] <tom99> I have vim.tiny installed and a /etc/alternatives/vi command
• 3818[22:25:57] <iKarith> tom99: Do you remember windows 98?
• 3819[22:25:59] *** Joins: pipl (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip)
• 3820[22:26:09] <tom99> whoa what the FUCK
• 3821[22:26:16] *** Quits: Aorious (~prakash@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 3822[22:26:27] <tom99> I typed ls l /etc/alternatives/vi and it shows it as a symlink to vim.tiny
• 3823[22:26:27] <unborn> tiny? like woe :D
• 3824[22:26:35] *** Quits: Darcidride_ (~Darcidrid@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 3825[22:26:40] <unborn> **what on earth
• 3826[22:26:40] <greycat> Because you STILL HAVEN'T INSTALLED VIM
• 3827[22:26:41] *** Joins: Aorious (~prakash@replaced-ip)
• 3828[22:26:55] * iKarith knew that /etc/alternatives/vi would point to vim.tiny :)
• 3829[22:26:57] <unborn> exactly tom99 ^^^
• 3830[22:27:05] <tom99> BUT IT SHOWED THE TEXT IN GREEN WHEN IT'S A SYMLINK. WHAT. THE. FUCK.
• 3831[22:27:14] *** Quits: pipl (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 3832[22:27:19] <greycat> You should not be surprised that update-alternatives and ls -l /etc/alternatives/foo both agree.
• 3833[22:27:27] *** Quits: hjubal (~hjubal@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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• 3836[22:27:40] <unborn> tom99: we all share your tiny things.. dont need to swear...
• 3837[22:27:41] <iKarith> greycat: he never ran update-alternatives because he doesn't know what it's for.
• 3838[22:27:41] *** Parts: win16user (~hectic@replaced-ip)
• 3839[22:27:56] <greycat> I have no idea how your lscolors are configured or why green is a surprising color for this kind of thing.
• 3840[22:28:24] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: Aren't all terminals blocky green text on a black background?
• 3841[22:28:54] <tom99> ls generally shows symlinks in cyan and files in green
• 3842[22:29:17] <tom99> so when I did ls -l /usr/bin/vi it says in cyan first /usr/bin/vi points to and then green /etc/alternatives/vi
• 3843[22:29:17] *** Quits: DomaMuffin (~DomaMuffi@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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• 3846[22:29:30] <unborn> jhutchins_wk: nope..on ubuntu and fedora or however you call those - it does not :)
• 3847[22:29:37] <tom99> yet when I run ls on that it su ddenly shows /etc/alternatives/vi in cyan as a symlink to /usr/bin/vim.tiny
• 3848[22:29:51] *** Quits: souravbadami (~sourav@replaced-ip) (Quit: Disconnected)
• 3849[22:30:10] *** Quits: babak (uid19622@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
• 3850[22:30:15] <tom99> iKarith was right all along!
• 3851[22:30:36] <iKarith> tom99: green in the ls -l for a symlink target just means the symlink is validly pointing to a file
• 3852[22:30:39] *** Joins: skylite_ (~skylite@replaced-ip)
• 3853[22:30:43] <tom99> greycat: the colors that ls uses work similarly on fedora, debian, and ubuntu when using the --colors option for ls
• 3854[22:30:49] <iKarith> (or directory)
• 3855[22:30:57] *** Quits: grumble (~grumble@replaced-ip) (Quit: brb)
• 3856[22:31:02] <greycat> tom99: *shrug* like I would know what those are. Don't care. I just read the actual text.
• 3857[22:31:04] <tom99> iKarith: wow. I don't know how to react to that
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• 3862[22:31:39] <zykotick9> tom99: i _really_ hope you're clear on the vim.tiny = vi and vim.bashic = vim. you don't have vim installed right now, just the "vi" that ships with debian vim.tiny
• 3863[22:31:41] <tom99> I guess I will get up, dust myself off, and move on instead of shaking a fist at the writer of ls and complaining about man pages
• 3864[22:31:44] *** Joins: Phibonacci (~quassel@replaced-ip)
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• 3866[22:31:55] *** Joins: sbine (~sbine@replaced-ip)
• 3867[22:32:02] <zykotick9> s/vim.bashic/vim.basic/
• 3868[22:32:23] <jhutchins_wk> tom99: You could read up on lscolor and see how it's meant to work.
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• 3871[22:33:09] <iKarith> Basically: The analogy to win98... Vim is like win98. Vim.tiny is the Win98 boot floppy. DOS, basically.
• 3872[22:33:14] <rudar> how do i downgrade some packages?
• 3873[22:33:19] <rudar> with apt-get
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• 3875[22:33:29] <unborn> :) I love you debian - and some of the irc users - I just love you..
• 3876[22:33:32] <jhutchins_wk> !downgrade
• 3877[22:33:32] <dpkg> Downgrading is not, nor will ever be supported by apt. Programs change their data in a way that can't be rolled back, and package maintainer scripts support upgrades to new config file formats but not downgrades. Try: "dpkg -i olderversion.deb" or "aptitude install package=version" using "apt-cache policy package" to get the old version number. See also <partial downgrade>, <unstable->testing>, <sdo>.
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• 3883[22:34:05] <tom99> jhutchins_wk: I'm googling for the LS_COLORS environment variable. I just want to point out not only the man page but the INFO page has zero info on how to set the colors
• 3884[22:34:07] <iKarith> rudar: the better question is WHAT and WHY do you want to downgrade.
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• 3887[22:34:14] <tom99> Man pages I expect to be shite, but info pages I have more respect for.
• 3888[22:34:31] <rudar> iKarith, i want to downgrade the packages listed here: replaced-url
• 3889[22:34:32] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 3890[22:34:44] <jhutchins_wk> tom99: Anything in linux that is completely documented is obsolete and deprecated.
• 3891[22:34:47] *** Joins: SweetMuffin (~DomaMuffi@replaced-ip)
• 3892[22:35:00] <AciD`> well
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• 3894[22:35:10] <unborn> iKarith: to your greater know-how sometimes they do install crap old package unsecured and buggy to just get function along with it..
• 3895[22:35:15] <tom99> So my vim isn't the real vim? it's just a stripped down version of vim? i guess that makes sense
• 3896[22:35:28] <jhutchins_wk> tom99: All written by volunteers, checked by volunteers, edited by volunteers. Some are great, some are horrible. Some just have the headers.
• 3897[22:35:46] <unborn> however on debian I do not know the package which should be downgraded except that worked crap :)
• 3898[22:35:59] <tom99> jhutchins_wk: Sure, I guess I just expect basic system utilities like cd or ls to have the most documentation and newer fancier things like compiz to have the least.
• 3899[22:36:00] <AciD`> I cheked the iso, I created the usb key with dd, everything is fine, but on this very old computer (Dell Optiplex 170L), I stil stumble upon that dreaded "Detect and mount CD" step
• 3900[22:36:04] <AciD`> :(
• 3901[22:36:05] <missmbob> rudar: for testing/sid please go to their channel on #debian-next on OFTC
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• 3904[22:36:27] <AciD`> this is so user-unfriendly, since you install it via...usb.
• 3905[22:36:36] <jhutchins_wk> missmbob: We support testing/sid here, especially for cross-release issues.
• 3906[22:36:36] <tom99> anyway TIL that the green color in ls doesn't always mean "real actual file" and also that vim.tiny is a thing
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• 3910[22:36:59] <missmbob> jhutchins_wk: one of these days you're going to get tired of telling me that.
• 3911[22:37:02] <iKarith> tom99: I'll warn you no for tue future, if you ever start playing with sed: $ does not mean end of line. Outside of a pattern, it means buffer represents the last of the file. Inside a pattern, it means the end of the buffer, which is usually one line but can be several if lines have been appended. :)
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• 3913[22:37:19] <jhutchins_wk> tom99: If you change he executable permissions on a binary file it will change color as well.
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• 3915[22:37:38] <rudar> okay, so i can't downgrade with apt... any suggestions on what should i do?
• 3916[22:37:43] <iKarith> in ls, the default colors indicate green for executable files, but as a link target the same green in ls -l indicates the link is not broken.
• 3917[22:37:49] <tom99> alright i'm installing vim as we speak. 30MB download
• 3918[22:38:04] <iKarith> red for a link target means that the link target doesn't exist.
• 3919[22:38:08] <tom99> right
• 3920[22:38:09] <jhutchins_wk> rudar: There are things you can do, /msg dpkg partial downgrade gives one example.
• 3921[22:38:15] <iKarith> ls doesn't recursively stat links.
• 3922[22:38:16] <tom99> lines being appended sounds dark and scary
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• 3925[22:38:39] <jhutchins_wk> rudar: Basically you can remove the packages and install the older version either by changing repos or downloading them manually. It's a pain.
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• 3927[22:38:55] <unborn> rudar: fist of the thing I have no idea what your issues might be but if you installed anything regural within debain you should not have an issues at all...
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• 3929[22:39:39] <tom99> iKarith, oh nice, I typed /usr/bin/vim and now I get parenthese matching and the arrow keys don't print BBBBAAABBBAAA anymore
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• 3932[22:39:57] <tom99> So my problem is vim.tiny was stripped down and didn't have all the features?
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• 3936[22:39:59] <jhutchins_wk> rudar: One good method is "restore your backup" - because you always make a backup before making changes to the OS.
• 3937[22:40:05] <unborn> rudar: would you like to share what package - gives you the issues please? its important
• 3938[22:40:13] <rudar> unborn, replaced-url
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• 3940[22:40:56] <rudar> jhutchins_wk, from now i'll keep that in mind
• 3941[22:41:09] <zykotick9> testing/unstable <- i see little difference. and personal, don't think it should be supported in #d (even on freenode)...
• 3942[22:41:19] <tom99> To return to jhutchins point, linux has so many landmines like this ls green thing, I can see why Ubuntu dominates with accessibility for the average user. they really emphasize that and it needs to be emphasized from what I've seen
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• 3944[22:41:31] <CutMeOwnThroat> there's a difference of ~ two weeks between testing and unstable
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• 3946[22:41:33] <jhutchins_wk> rudar: It's a pretty good idea if you need testing to work while they fix it.
• 3947[22:41:33] <unborn> rudar: yay perhaps it will sound rude but forgive me that - im on stable - did you contact devs of that package (very helpful) or debian chan towards testing? (on invite(
• 3948[22:41:36] <unborn> )
• 3949[22:41:45] <missmbob> zykotick9: it's really not. thus /topic and debian-next factoids. some people think they know better and cant respect things
• 3950[22:41:46] <tom99> Without you telling me that iKarith I would never have figured it out on my own.
• 3951[22:41:51] <tom99> so thanks!
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• 3954[22:42:10] <jhutchins_wk> tom99: Feel free to contact the maintainers and/or upstream and volunteer to help.
• 3955[22:42:14] <iKarith> tom99: I can explain update-alternatives as well, if you'd like.
• 3956[22:42:28] <CutMeOwnThroat> unborn, it's *not* an invite channel, it is just not here but on oftc
• 3957[22:42:37] <AciD`> well, I tried adding the 'cdrom-detect/try-usb=true' option to the booting command, no luck :(
• 3958[22:42:37] <rudar> unborn, there are two bug reports on debian's mailing list and one on mate's github, there's nothing more to add in those channels. the only thing left for me to be able to use my system is to find a workaround
• 3959[22:42:39] <unborn> logs will usually solve the issues.. you know it right? rudar
• 3960[22:43:26] * zykotick9 wishes logs "solved" issues, instead of just providing detail
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• 3962[22:43:38] * unborn can anyone tell me if debian repos are actually on github?????? please ???? - just to due to tickets for issues flowing for - some unused stuff..
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• 3964[22:44:12] <jhutchins_wk> zykotick9: I think supporting the pre-releases here serves some good purposes. Solutions are sometimes cross-release; we get to hear about new problems...
• 3965[22:44:24] <jhutchins_wk> zykotick9: If it gets too release-specific it's good to send them on.
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• 3967[22:44:46] <iKarith> Essentially, there isn't really *A* /usr/bin/vi and technically hasn't been for a long time--the original code was lost. :) But many things can be installed as "vi": nvi, vim.tiny, vim, gvim, and other things that aren't vim. :) They're all compatible with the minimal definition of "vi". Most are extended.
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• 3969[22:45:13] <jhutchins_wk> zykotick9: Then there are the error messages that say "Please copy blah to foo and try again." that get pasted here.
• 3970[22:45:24] <zykotick9> jhutchins_wk: while i'll agree, there are some benefits... i think it's vastly outweighed by the "problems" associated with running testing/sid... i know a lot of people run testing for desktops, i think that's madness...
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• 3974[22:45:52] <rainfyre> "testing is actually quite stable"
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• 3977[22:46:04] <zykotick9> jhutchins_wk: to be honest, you're the vastly more senior member in #d then i am. who gives 2 cents what i think ;)
• 3978[22:46:15] <CutMeOwnThroat> "stable is actually quite unstable"
• 3979[22:46:25] <unborn> rudar: I understand your frustration - is it in my power to make you any more relaxed about this? I am in github for long long time but for me I cannot find any repos there - searching debian stuff.. im so sorry about that. - if that is on git you should not be alone!
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• 3981[22:46:33] <iKarith> so packages don't provide a vi binary or even a vi symlink. Instead they tell update-alternatives to register themselves as "alternatives" to vi. When you install one, /usr/bin/vi gets pointed to /etc/alternatives/vi which in turn points to the choice you've made for which thing is "vi" on your system.
• 3982[22:46:33] <unborn> - mean I am with you :)
• 3983[22:46:36] <jhutchins_wk> zykotick9: I appreciate your insights.
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• 3986[22:47:19] <rudar> unborn, thanks for your empathy! for now i'll try to manually download packages from the stable repository and install them
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• 3989[22:47:31] <tom99> jhutchins_wk: on the topic of volunteering to help or maintain things. Somebody posted a mail exchange on the debian mailing list i think between someone who wanted to update some program to version 1.3.4 from 1.3.3
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• 3991[22:47:34] <iKarith> packages which provide alternatives for vi do so at different weights. That way dpkg knows which one should be preferred over the others. For editor (another alternative), nano is a lot higher than any version of vi or vim, for example.
• 3992[22:47:56] <tom99> And it looked like the maintainer was just giving excuses so as to not do it. Like "oh there are other important things" and "oh I don't trust you enough to work with you on a project" and so on.
• 3993[22:48:09] <iKarith> That's done because nano is something end users know and understand, and it's assumed that if you know enough to prefer vim or something else, you probably know enough to change it.
• 3994[22:48:28] <jhutchins_wk> tom99: That will happen.
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• 3996[22:48:51] <tom99> apparently /usr/bin/editor is a symlink in the same fashion as vi is
• 3997[22:49:00] <tom99> it points to /etc/alternatives which is a symlink to nano
• 3998[22:49:12] <jhutchins_wk> tom99: New users will also often come in with a bunch of ideas how something should be made better without understanding how it got where it is and why it's that way.
• 3999[22:49:14] <tom99> so I guess debian does use a system of /etc/alternatives
• 4000[22:49:15] <iKarith> if you set control to manual (either by running update-alterntatives and selecting a manual choice or editing the symlink in /etc/alternatives to be different than it is right now), update-alternatives will remember your choice as long as that package remains installed.
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• 4005[22:49:40] <unborn> rudar: thank you for not giving up on this issue. well we should be honest and as human as possible.. you can try it - on stable it should works but on your testing - there are no results - testing - you know... jump on with your results - I am hoping they will be - just good if not best ;) fingers crossed mate.
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• 4007[22:49:47] <tom99> jhutchins_wk: in the example I cited all other distros had moved to 1.3.4 of the program, but the guy on the debian mailing list said he was keeping it 1.3.3 because reasons
• 4008[22:50:22] <tom99> iKarith: ah so it's designed to be customizable. nice
• 4009[22:50:38] <unborn> tom99: this is debian - not other distros - its secured and well stable..
• 4010[22:50:45] <unborn> nod that pls
• 4011[22:50:52] <iKarith> update-alternatives predates me by several years :)
• 4012[22:50:54] <stew> tom99: can you show me the thread?
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• 4015[22:51:29] <stew> tom99: is there a wishlist bug filed against the package requesting the upgrade? that is really where this discussion should take place
• 4016[22:51:30] * iKarith only started using Debian late in bo's life cycle.
• 4017[22:51:35] <jhutchins_wk> tom99: I thik you could say that there is a tendency in Debian to NOT upgrade if not absolutely necessary.
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• 4019[22:51:59] <iKarith> jhutchins_wk: that's definitely true of stable.
• 4020[22:52:02] <unborn> tom99: if you would like - to - switch to other distro with your preference to get your results.. i am sorry but if the package is not good enough then its - out.
• 4021[22:52:04] <jhutchins_wk> tom99: It keeps us old farts in familiar territory.
• 4022[22:53:05] <tom99> iKarith: when you say the code for vi was lost are you talking about the vi in the old Sys V Unix?
• 4023[22:53:28] <iKarith> tom99: yes. I believe the source code for the original vi is no more.
• 4024[22:53:32] <iKarith> nvi is a rewrite.
• 4025[22:53:35] <unborn> jhutchins_wk: I i thought you are young.. :) I would like to offer you an tea cup with me :)
• 4026[22:53:37] <tom99> stew: i'm not sure, I think it was being discussed in terms of keeping up with other distros that already upgraded that basic system
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• 4028[22:53:53] <rudar> i've manually downloaded the packages. but running "apt-get -s remove <...>" (simulated command) i get the removal of A LOT of packages. is there a way to just reinstall those 5-6 i need to?
• 4029[22:53:57] <stew> tom99: you sould file a wishlist bug
• 4030[22:53:58] * unborn nods jhutchins for old sys name :)
• 4031[22:54:41] <jhutchins_wk> tom99: "Other distros do it" is not a positive reason.
• 4032[22:54:45] <tom99> stew: oh I have the thread i cited about not upgrading
• 4033[22:55:05] <tom99> It does seem to be discussed as a wishlist item at first. I'm not sure
• 4034[22:55:06] <tom99> replaced-url
• 4035[22:55:07] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 4036[22:55:13] <iKarith> now, while stable is pretty good at not installing things that aren't tested heavily, testing is a good staging ground for not-the-latest stuff that's probably solid enough. However testing doesn't get security patches like stable does. That's why I don't really recommend using testing for general day to day use.
• 4037[22:55:28] <tom99> somebody in the #awk channel posted that I think
• 4038[22:55:42] <iKarith> unstable ("sid") changes daily. :)
• 4039[22:55:57] <tom99> iKarith: If i wanted a rolling-release for debian would that be sid?
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• 4041[22:56:15] <iKarith> but what goes into sid hasn't necessarily been tested. chromium just broke recently due to a new glibc, for example.
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• 4044[22:56:22] <iKarith> And downgrades are not supported!
• 4045[22:56:35] <tom99> iKarith: lol wow
• 4046[22:56:39] <iKarith> in this case it was possible to downgrade, easy even. But it might not have worked.
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• 4048[22:56:57] <AciD`> ok, I give up! :(
• 4049[22:57:09] <iKarith> So the question is do you want it rock solid but maybe old, or do you want it current but you've gotta be prepared to cope with issues?
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• 4053[22:57:44] <rudar> dependency nightmare...
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• 4058[22:59:04] <iKarith> I sometimes mix stable and testing which often gets security patches from stable, usually without pinning. That gives me SOME of the security fixes for stable and aptitude/apt can usually figure it out.
• 4059[22:59:12] <tom99> iKarith: I may as well go with current but prepared for issues. because as a new user I guess I feel like everything is issues
• 4060[22:59:20] <iKarith> But I would always use a basic firewall with that setup.
• 4061[22:59:21] *** Quits: cyphase (~cyphase@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 4062[22:59:25] <missmbob> that sounds absolutely awful
• 4063[22:59:30] <tom99> well this has been enlightening
• 4064[22:59:36] <tom99> thanks for all the help and advice iKarith and jhutchins_wk
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• 4067[23:00:10] <iKarith> I also have used stable pinned with testing or even sid available. That keeps the machine solid except for the few packages I know I want to upgrade.
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• 4069[23:00:28] <petn-randall> iKarith: If you mix stable and testing you're getting the worst of both worlds, and a much higher likelyhood of bricking your system than when running a pure testing environment.
• 4070[23:00:40] <iKarith> For awhile I did that to have XFCE 4.12 which has no backports.
• 4071[23:00:45] *** Quits: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
• 4072[23:01:04] <jhutchins_wk> iKarith: We would like to discourage you from suggesting frankendebian to people who may not have the experience to recover from it. Please include warnings.
• 4073[23:01:04] <iKarith> petn-randall: I know how not to brick the installation at least.
• 4074[23:01:28] <petn-randall> !frankendebian
• 4075[23:01:28] <dpkg> When you get random packages from random repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and #debian certainly doesn't want to even try. See if you can convince ##linux to help.
• 4076[23:01:47] <iKarith> Fair point: Don't do that if you're not comfortable fixing a hosed libc. If you don't know what that means, you're not. ;)
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• 4078[23:02:07] <jhutchins_wk> Testing is a place to break things, and testing can stay broken for as long as it takes to come up with a proper fix. It shouldn't get bandaids.
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• 4082[23:03:41] <jhutchins_wk> Once again, especially for testing or sid, make a backup before running an update and you'll be happier in the long run.
• 4083[23:03:49] <iKarith> Anyway, the major reason to recommend Ubuntu IMO is that Ubuntu proper is fundamentally Debian enough for a Debianite to use, but they have a stage somewhere between Debian stable and unstable that is their standard release process.
• 4084[23:04:00] <rainfyre> ugh
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• 4086[23:04:04] <iKarith> "Debian enough" carries some warnings of its own however.
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• 4088[23:04:12] <iKarith> Ubuntu is NOT Debian.
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• 4091[23:05:07] <jhutchins_wk> Then we have the fun times of installing packages from other distros.
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• 4093[23:05:32] <iKarith> They've changed too much at some pretty low levels, and they do a lot of their own development at the UI level as well. Most of that becomes optional in Debian at some point, but the core packages are different and they don't really maintain more than a small set. The rest are taken from Debian, dependencies fixed, and included as is.
• 4094[23:06:02] <iKarith> But all the major pieces are there: apt-get, dpkg, update-alternatives, run-parts, etc.
• 4095[23:06:22] <missmbob> please let's get back to topic. too much real estate.
• 4096[23:06:36] <cR3Zx> hey guys i have a problem with winetricks in my debian i cant install mfc42, am getting this error replaced-url
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• 4099[23:07:52] <missmbob> cR3Zx: try their latest replaced-url
• 4100[23:08:14] <Somelauw> I need some help compiling a program on Debian with autotools. It has a dependency on json-glib-1.0, which for me is installed at /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libjson-glib-1.0.so.0, but autotools can't find it and tell me I should set both json_FLAGS and json_LIBS, but I don't know what values I should assign to these environment variables and if need these variables set in some bashrc file or just before
• 4101[23:08:16] <Somelauw> running autotools.
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• 4104[23:08:41] <tom99> alright iKarith, see ya later
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• 4106[23:09:16] <missmbob> Somelauw: install libjson-glib-dev
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• 4108[23:10:19] <cR3Zx> missmbob, still the same issue
• 4109[23:10:39] <missmbob> cR3Zx: then i'd ask #winehq
• 4110[23:10:58] <cR3Zx> missmbob, thanks
• 4111[23:11:13] <Somelauw> thanks, that workth
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• 4113[23:11:15] <Somelauw> works*
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• 4120[23:15:20] <Somelauw> i'm compiling a library that is actually needed by another program and is not in the repos. I think sudo checkinstall for this library is safest.
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