People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
this is #debian
an IRC -Channel at freenode
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2021-06-01)
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19 [00:14:51] <plujon> The bug does is not present in Debian 11
(emacs-27.1); I'll not file a bug.
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21 [00:15:33] <plujon> It's possible the bug is in emacs
26.x; I was unable to build and test that version.
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25 [00:18:22] <DrimysWinteri> hello. I have a problem with
debian 10 kde, when I attempt to shutdown or reboot the screen just
blurries and nothin happen. Is there a solution?
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96 [01:32:32] <cheapie> Huh, TIL Debian actually ships with the
proper kernel modules for getting it up and running on a
Vortex86DX3.
97 [01:33:23] <cheapie> Linux itself isn't the happiest
about it ("CPU: vendor_id 'Vortex86 SoC' unknown,
using generic init. Your system may be unstable.") but it seems
to work.
98 [01:33:25] <dvs> 486DX3? X-D
99 [01:33:42] <cheapie> dvs: Hah, no, a lot newer than that.
Came out in 2015 or so I think.
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142 [02:41:45] <alex11> what can i do if kill doesn't kill a
process?
143 [02:41:58] <alex11> nvm there it goes
144 [02:42:18] * dvs puts away his gun
145 [02:42:44] <Nik05> alex11, depends on the signal you send
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147 [02:43:11] <alex11> yeah i guess
148 [02:43:15] <alex11> i need to man page read
149 [02:43:25] <Namarrgon> many programs catch SIGTERM and use it
for cleanup before they quit
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152 [02:44:23] <Nik05> You also have the SIGKILL signal, which
kill doesnt send by default
153 [02:44:24] <Dude-Meister> Is Debian using System V init, or
SystemD?
154 [02:44:45] <alex11> systemd by default
155 [02:44:50] <cheapie> systemd by default, I think you can
theoretically swap it out for sysvinit but a lot of stuff isn't
installable if you do that.
156 [02:44:51] <imMute> Dude-Meister: systemd by default, but
sysvinit ify ou want.
157 [02:45:21] <alex11> tfw you answer first but the two
successive answers are more useful
158 [02:45:56] <Dude-Meister> I asked because i found what i
believe to be a very useful 6 hour and 41 minute tutorial on
YouTube, and of corse, the learning curve - {ugh}
159 [02:46:09] <cws> Dude-Meister: on systemd?
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161 [02:46:45] <cws> If so, it does not take a 7 hour youtube
video to learn systemd.
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165 [02:48:13] <Dude-Meister> Yes. It seems clear (as mud) when
he's discussing the two (within the forst 6 minutes of the
course) that he's chosen to run SystemD. me, not knowing much,
was concerned there may be totally different "calls" (or
whatever the proper term is) because he's clearly chosed to rn
SystemD, though he never actually says that.
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168 [02:48:44] <Dude-Meister> He's also running CentOS, but
it seems that's not going to cause the corse to be
problemsatic.
169 [02:48:59] <Dude-Meister>
replaced-url
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171 [02:49:09] <cws> I'm going to skip the video, it does
not take 7 hours to learn systemd.
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174 [02:49:44] <Dude-Meister> It's not just SystemD.
It's a Linux system administration course.
175 [02:50:23] <cws> You keep capitalizing systemd, and its
making me twitch. :P
176 [02:51:11] <Dude-Meister> Oh -0 I don't want to do that.
177 [02:52:08] <cws> So what exactly are you trying to learn?
178 [02:52:32] <cws> Just intro to linux sysadmin?
179 [02:52:36] <alex11> i do think systemd could benefit from a
beginner level 'here's how to do things quickly'
thing but arch/gentoo wikis probably cover that lol
180 [02:52:50] <cws> I should write one.
181 [02:52:53] <Dude-Meister> cws, everything I need to never use
Microsoft or Apple products ever again - VEER.
182 [02:52:59] <Dude-Meister> EVER*
183 [02:53:01] <Dude-Meister> :)
184 [02:53:05] <alex11> veer
185 [02:53:13] <alex11> do not veer into the land of microapple
186 [02:53:21] <cws> Dude-Meister:
replaced-url
187 [02:53:29] <cws> It's free. Go nuts.
188 [02:53:44] <Dude-Meister> I'll scope it out. Thank you!
189 [02:53:51] <cws> It's from the Linux Foundation.
190 [02:53:51] <alex11> debian wiki probably has a lot of what
you need too but i'm too tired/lazy to check atm
191 [02:53:59] <cws> Probably better material than some Youtube
rando.
192 [02:54:11] <alex11> or the linux command line by william
shotts is another decent book
193 [02:54:30] <Dude-Meister> Click the one I put up and take a
look at the 22 chapter topics covered and you may say, "Yeah,
that's pretty good," or not . . . but probably.
194 [02:54:59] <Dude-Meister> I've been using computers
since 1980, but not as an IT pro or anything liek that.
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196 [02:55:49] <Dude-Meister> Still, I know more than the average
home user because - well - DNA decided I'm a nerd-type. {shrug}
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198 [02:56:14] <alex11> like i agree systemd doesn't take 7
hours to learn but it's pretty daunting at first typing man
systemd <tab tab> and having 100+ entries show up
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200 [02:56:46] <cws> sure, but that's because you're
getting all of the manpages for how to define service units, timer
units, path units, etc.
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202 [02:56:52] <alex11> i'm aware
203 [02:57:01] <alex11> i just mean that for a beginner it looks
like 'fuck this'
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205 [02:57:32] <Dude-Meister> Like I saiud, this is something
grazed across in the first 6 minutes of the first chapter
"Linux Client Administration - Linux Installation
Overview" covering
206 [02:58:06] <Dude-Meister> Typo-Master stikes again.
207 [02:58:21] <Dude-Meister> Typo-Meister?
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209 [02:59:18] <Dude-Meister> Anyhow - it's real easy to
click the link I put up, and look at the chapter listing. It could
lead to better responses.
210 [02:59:26] <Dude-Meister> Just sayin
211 [03:00:11] <Dude-Meister> I was actually hoping people that
know WAY more than me in the subject MAY find it a useful link for
helping others.
212 [03:01:09] <Dude-Meister> I just popped in to make sure
I'm not wasting nearly 7 hours learning something that
doesn't apply, becuase I really don't know.
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215 [03:02:19] <Dude-Meister> So, the system init v vs initd was
something I though it best to ask about.
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219 [03:04:25] <Dude-Meister> Woah. cws, the link you shot me is
much appriciated.
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221 [03:05:34] <Dude-Meister> Adding that verified certificate
for $169 US is a real bargain too, it seems to me.
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223 [03:05:48] <cws> I wouldn't.
224 [03:06:26] <Dude-Meister> I can understand that stance too,
for sure.
225 [03:06:46] <Dude-Meister> It depends on what kind of
cliwentel you're likely to serve though.
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229 [03:07:00] <cws> If you're going to spend $169 on a
certificate that no one cares about, spend $200 on an actual
certification that someone would recognize.
230 [03:07:02] <cws>
replaced-url
231 [03:07:33] <Dude-Meister> Farmers that have john Deer or
Farmall Tractors Do like to see certifications if they really have
NO real interest in coputers, eh?
232 [03:07:51] <Dude-Meister> Ah. IC.
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237 [03:12:23] <Dude-Meister> Okay, well, I've got some
great material and really FAST answers on the whole init v vs initd
thing. I'm going to plow through this course I found a couple
times as the material is well presented, but now i also have some
more material to follow up with.
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239 [03:13:35] <Dude-Meister> Thanks all, and especially you cws.
Sorry I made you twitch. I'll stop IMMEDIATELY! lol
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241 [03:14:37] <Dude-Meister> initd initd initd. Ahhhhhh.
You're right. It was causing me trouble too, and I didn't
even know I was creating the problem myself. 'Twas a close
call!
242 [03:14:52] <Dude-Meister> L8R
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247 [03:18:41] *** Quits: tsal (~tsal@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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251 [03:23:40] *** Quits: galex-713 (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Excess Flood)
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260 [03:48:01] *** Quits: starz (~riex@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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268 [04:01:18] *** Quits: galex-713 (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
269 [04:01:33] *** Quits: jmatos (~jmatos@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Quitting.)
270 [04:01:59] *** Quits: ax562 (~ax562@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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285 [04:09:15] *** Quits: jmatos (~jmatos@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Quitting.)
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291 [04:15:14] *** Quits: Ekis (~Ekis@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
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294 [04:16:15] *** Quits: BrianG61UK_ (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
295 [04:17:51] *** BrianG61UK__ is now known as BrianG61UK_
296 [04:17:52] *** Quits: jmatos (~jmatos@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Quitting.)
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320 [04:49:26] *** Quits: rebtoor (~rebtoor@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
321 [04:49:26] *** rebtoor_ is now known as rebtoor
322 [04:50:11] *** Quits: diniwed (~gavron@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
323 [04:52:15] *** Parts: fanderal (~fanderal@replaced-ip ) ("bye")
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340 [05:21:14] *** inode33 is now known as FrostFeline
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350 [05:31:51] *** Quits: ddsys (~ddsys@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
351 [05:35:15] *** Quits: debsan (~debsan@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
352 [05:40:15] *** Quits: nyov (~nyov@replaced-ip ) (Killed (orwell.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
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356 [05:47:41] *** Quits: shokohsc (~shokohsc@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
357 [05:51:09] *** Quits: skyikot (~skyikot@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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361 [06:01:58] *** Quits: TheCreeper (~TheCreepe@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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363 [06:05:12] *** Quits: secntech (~secntech@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
364 [06:05:33] *** Quits: blkmanta (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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366 [06:08:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 887
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373 [06:28:45] *** Quits: Filohuhum_ (~filohuhum@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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375 [06:43:19] *** Quits: v01d4lph4 (~v01d4lph4@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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377 [06:59:00] *** Joins: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip )
378 [06:59:35] *** Quits: adapter (~adapter@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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383 [07:12:14] *** Joins: skyikot (~skyikot@replaced-ip )
384 [07:12:45] *** Quits: emOne (~emOne@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
385 [07:18:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 893
386 [07:18:17] *** Quits: freshtube (freshtube@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
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388 [07:21:36] *** Quits: Texou (~Texou@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0.1)
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390 [07:28:31] *** Quits: cef (~cef@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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392 [07:29:25] *** Quits: SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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397 [07:34:29] *** Quits: Zajt (54375bed@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Connection closed)
398 [07:34:45] *** Quits: skyikot (~skyikot@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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400 [07:35:46] *** Joins: SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@replaced-ip )
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402 [07:36:42] *** Quits: adapter (~adapter@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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407 [07:46:12] *** Quits: p0bailey (~p0bailey@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
408 [07:50:37] *** Quits: kupi (uid212005@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
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411 [07:55:50] *** Quits: cef (~cef@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Zoom!)
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413 [07:56:18] *** Quits: v01d4lph4 (~v01d4lph4@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
414 [07:56:41] *** Quits: awal1 (~awal1@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
415 [07:58:45] *** Quits: citypw (~citypw@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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417 [08:01:24] *** Joins: blkmanta (~quassel@replaced-ip )
418 [08:02:00] *** Quits: luuuciano (~luuuciano@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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420 [08:02:21] *** Joins: emOne (~emOne@replaced-ip )
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423 [08:06:18] *** Quits: blkmanta (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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453 [09:20:13] *** Quits: emOne (~emOne@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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455 [09:22:46] *** Parts: Sideburns (~Sideburns@replaced-ip ) ()
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457 [09:25:13] *** Quits: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip ) (Quit: vergissmeinnicht)
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469 [09:35:41] *** Quits: keiser (~keiser@replaced-ip##) (Quit: The Lounge - ##replaced-url
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545 [11:31:03] <ratrace> 10.9 hitting the mirrors, folks..
546 [11:35:43] <oxek> I'm scared
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550 [11:45:57] <ratrace> run for the hills! but wait! the hills
have eyes!
551 [11:48:21] <wsky> stop dropping acid so often
552 [11:50:18] <cws> First thing in the morning, ratrace gets
Iron Maiden stuck in my head.
553 [11:57:47] <EdePopede> better than an Iron Axe.
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556 [11:58:56] <aminvakil> i can't find release notes for
10.9
557 [11:59:16] <aminvakil> is there any at all?
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559 [12:00:33] <Flashtek> I have a question that's probably
more general Linux centric rather than Debian, but as the system in
quesiton runs on Debian I'll ask here and hope not to get
slapped for it. I have a server with 2 x 2Tb disks in software
RAID1, one is showing signs of gentle failure (from dmesg output).
If I were to get one of the disks replaced, would I need do anything
else (other than wait) to get the RAID back in play? (wondering
about
560 [12:00:33] <Flashtek> copying partition table from sda (good)
to new sdb (failing) etc)
561 [12:00:36] <EdePopede> not yet, but the dir is already there
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567 [12:03:58] <cws> Flashtek: To do a controlled replacement,
fail-and-remove the disk via mdadm, replace the faulting disk,
partition the new disk appropriately, then add the new drive to the
mirror.
568 [12:04:01] <cws> Flashtek:
replaced-url
569 [12:04:09] <cws> I don't normally link to random sites,
but those are the correct steps.
570 [12:04:23] <oxek> what's "gentle failure"?
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573 [12:05:54] <oxek> beware when provisioning a new disk from
another one - the reading of the other disk will very likely have at
least 1 undetected read error, just due to statistics and disks
being so huge nowadays
574 [12:06:11] <oxek> unless you're using a checksumming
filesystem
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577 [12:07:17] <cws> Flashtek: Hope you have backups, yeah.
578 [12:08:08] <oxek> always remember, RAID is not backup
579 [12:08:43] <Flashtek> cws: thanks for the pointers, I'll
take a read. and yeah, I know it's not backup (but better than
nothing)
580 [12:08:50] <ratrace> %s/not backup/not proper backup/
581 [12:09:09] <cws> They're not backups at all. Telling
anyone that they are is doing them a disservice.
582 [12:09:24] <cws> If it's the live dataset your system is
running on, it's not a backup.
583 [12:09:41] <ratrace> depends on how you define
"backup"
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585 [12:10:10] <cws> Can I restore my stuff if someone takes my
entire running system and throws it in a volcano?
586 [12:10:12] <Flashtek> indeed it does... I totally take both
sides depending on your definition
587 [12:10:21] <ratrace> what's the difference of having 2
disks in mirror versus having 1 disk in teh computer, and one
"backup" USB disk on the shelf above it?
588 [12:10:40] <ratrace> the difference is: "few dozen
centimeres". both are onsite. both are backups, but inadequate
589 [12:10:42] <cws> Flashtek: RAID is not backup. At all.
Period. Ever.
590 [12:10:47] *** Quits: tallbarr (~none@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
591 [12:10:48] <ratrace> adequte backup is 3-2-1
592 [12:10:52] <cws> Flashtek: Anyone telling you that it is is
lying to you.
593 [12:11:04] <cws> Flashtek: And that's the end of that.
594 [12:11:09] <oxek> +1
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596 [12:11:14] <ratrace> it's not backup for all intents and
purposes of "backing up data into a safe location for
redundancy and recovery"
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598 [12:11:44] <oxek> it's not even a backup for the
purposes of "oops I accidentally deleted a file"
599 [12:11:53] <ratrace> yeah, it's not.
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602 [12:11:58] <cws> Then its not backup.
603 [12:12:16] <oxek> yeah I think all of us agree RAID is not a
backup :D
604 [12:12:18] <cws> That's the absolute minimum capability
for anything considered a backup. If it can't even do that,
then it isn't a backup.
605 [12:12:30] <cws> So don't tell people its "kind
of" a backup. It's not a backup.
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607 [12:13:02] <ratrace> cws: okay so by that definition a zfs
raid1 with snapshots is backup because it DOES protect against
"oops I deleted a file"?
608 [12:13:20] <cws> "if it can't even do that"
doesn't mean that "if it can do this one thing, its a
backup"
609 [12:13:52] <oxek> necessary vs sufficient
610 [12:13:54] <ratrace> you just said "absolute minimum
capability for anything considered a backup". zfs raid w/
snapshots is that. redundancy, data csum for integrity, and archival
with snapshots.
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612 [12:14:07] <ratrace> it is INSUFFICIENT backup because
there's no offsite copy.
613 [12:14:10] <cws> What I ALSO said:
614 [12:14:12] <cws> 07:10 <cws> Can I restore my stuff if
someone takes my entire running system and throws it in a volcano?
615 [12:14:22] <cws> Say it with me, ratrace: "RAID IS NOT A
BACKUP."
616 [12:14:31] <cws> Stop telling people that it is.
617 [12:14:39] <ratrace> alright it's not. but it's
better than 1 disk. esp with data csuming and snaps :)
618 [12:14:43] <cws> Not kind of, not a little, not
"weeeeeell..."
619 [12:15:18] <cws> Oh, certainly.
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621 [12:15:59] <ratrace> and to some even 3-2-1 is not backup
"enough", so it's nuances and level of shi...z you
want to protect against. but okay, for ordinary meanings of backup
it is not.
622 [12:16:06] <oxek> yet again, I don't see 10.9 at
replaced-url
623 [12:17:24] <ratrace> oxek:
replaced-url
624 [12:18:17] <Flashtek> sorry for being the can openner... :-(
I agree that RAID isn't a backup, but it's handy for
situations like one disk failing in a server a few thousand miles
away and wanting to keep things going 'till you can get the
situation resolved. I will ensure I has tested backups before I do
things.
625 [12:18:39] <oxek> ratrace: I see it is in a different list
than I thought
replaced-url
626 [12:18:42] <oxek> debian-stable-announce
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628 [12:18:51] <ratrace> mirrors near me already got it,
upgrading my workstation r/n
629 [12:19:08] <oxek> I see you like to live dangerously
630 [12:19:33] <ratrace> my workstation is the primary canary for
updates :) my BACKUP RAID1 BTRFS W/ SNAPS (mwahahahahah) protects
against Dumb.
631 [12:19:44] <oxek> lol
632 [12:20:05] <ratrace> so when that turns out okay, I upgarde
the backup servers (backup in 3-2-1 context), and then production.
633 [12:20:36] <ratrace> see I like nuances and contexts, not
blanket statements. so I never disagreed with cws , I just prefer
full context definitions.
634 [12:21:14] <ratrace> I understand normies don't see that
and "backup" means only one thing: offsite copies you can
restore from when someone chucks your whole house into a volcano.
635 [12:21:55] <ratrace> (which means the "backup USB disk
you keep on the shelf" is not backup because the whole house
got volcano'd)
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637 [12:22:02] <cws> And with the word "normie,"
you've chucked your whole credibility into that same volcano.
638 [12:22:13] <ratrace> obvs I'm an abnormie :)
639 [12:22:35] <ratrace> I meant normal folks who aren't
into nuances and contexts.
640 [12:23:05] <raidghost> To detect multicast ip-adresses and
the channel name, any good tool to put on eth0 for listening? So i
dont have to guess every rtp://ip:5500 adress
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642 [12:23:53] <oxek> what's wrong with 'normie'?
643 [12:25:11] <cws> oxek: In current usage, its a pejorative
term for someone considered "mainstream."
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645 [12:25:49] <oxek> huh, that's news to me
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647 [12:26:09] <oxek> I always thought it means "a
regular/typical user"
648 [12:26:27] <ratrace> it's news to me too
649 [12:26:44] *** Joins: mthe878 (~mthe@replaced-ip )
650 [12:26:51] <ratrace> then again witht he whole cancel culture
and censors tying to rewrite how we use language in service of
social justice ..... I don't care :)
651 [12:26:59] <abrotman> moving on ...
652 [12:27:04] <ratrace> moving on.
653 [12:27:51] <abrotman> And various versions of RAID are better
at being considered a backup, but generally speaking, RAID is not a
backup system
654 [12:28:58] <ratrace> I can agree with that. But all I meant
initially was that a ZFS RAID1 with snapshots is euqal level of
backup, even better due to data csum, than 1 disk in the computer,
and a copy on the shelf above it. the difference is literally in
centimeters.
655 [12:29:35] <ratrace> so if someone calls an USB disk ext4 on
the shelf a "backup" of their single disk ext4 in teh
computer 20 centimeters below.... if that's backup, so is zfs
raid1 w/ snaps.
656 [12:30:05] <abrotman> RAID1 is closer to a "backup"
.. 0+1 or 1+0 .. sure, also okay .. but 0/2/3/4/5 not so much
657 [12:30:28] <ratrace> 5 and 1 have same redundancy level tho
658 [12:30:48] <ratrace> ie one disk can die (assuming 2-way
raid1, yes, there could be 3-way and then the math is off)
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660 [12:31:41] <abrotman> 5 doesn't have redundancy, it has
striping and parity
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662 [12:31:53] <rudi_s> RAID: You delete a file, it's gone.
I wouldn't consider that backup.
663 [12:31:56] <ratrace> the parity is redundancy. you can
recreate data if 1 disk fails
664 [12:31:56] <abrotman> dpkg: baarf
665 [12:31:57] <dpkg> abrotman: I give up, what is it?
666 [12:32:01] <abrotman> grrr
667 [12:33:01] <abrotman> That's not "redundancy"
..
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670 [12:34:31] <abrotman> dpkg: baarf is <reply>Battle
Against Any RAID Four/Five/Free -
replaced-url
671 [12:34:32] <dpkg> okay, abrotman
672 [12:34:43] <rudi_s> abrotman: RAID 1 has?
673 [12:34:48] <abrotman> (an older article that discusses some
of the pitfalls
674 [12:34:49] <Flashtek> baarfffffffff
675 [12:34:51] <Flashtek> lol
676 [12:35:32] <abrotman> rudi_s: has what?
677 [12:35:43] <rudi_s> abrotman: "redundancy"
678 [12:36:00] <rudi_s> I'm just confused by "RAID1 is
closer to a "backup" .. 0+1 or 1+0 .. sure, also okay ..
but 0/2/3/4/5 not so much"
679 [12:36:43] <abrotman> rudi_s: RAID1 is a mirror system, there
should be an exact copy on both drives/partitions
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681 [12:36:59] <abrotman> s/both/all disks included in the raid
set/
682 [12:37:30] <abrotman> You can have RAID1 with 17
drives/partitions/etc
683 [12:37:40] <rudi_s> abrotman: Sure. But so does RAID5/6/Z,
not in an exact copy but in a way to reconstruct the data if a disk
fails.
684 [12:38:33] <rudi_s> You said 5 doesn't have redundancy
but listed RAID 1 as a backup so I assumed you'd give RAID 1
the property of "redundancy" and that got me confused.
685 [12:38:34] <abrotman> rudi_s: they don't contain an
exact copy, they're striped and parity. You can reconstruct
missing elements, but they're not redundant (in the dictionary
sense)
686 [12:38:34] <Flashtek> fault tollerance, not backup
687 [12:38:54] <abrotman> if you have five disks in a RAID1, you
can pull one out, and have all the data
688 [12:39:15] <rudi_s> abrotman: Ah, that's the definition
of redundancy you're using. Right, that makes sense.
689 [12:40:11] <Flashtek> abrotman: same could be said about
RAID5 (and others, but not 0) over 5 disks.
690 [12:40:32] <abrotman> Flashtek: eh? If you pull one disk from
a RAID5 set, that single disk gets you nothing but broken bits
691 [12:40:52] <abrotman> the remaining disk set could rebuild
the missing data from that single drive, but you can't use that
single drive to get anything
692 [12:40:57] <Flashtek> sorry, I thought you meant pull one
disk out and the other 4 keep going...
693 [12:41:01] <Flashtek> not had enough tea yet
694 [12:41:13] <wsky> value your tea
695 [12:41:19] <abrotman> (well, that depends on your definition
of "anything", I'm sure the FBI would be happy to
only have half your data if you're being investigated"
696 [12:41:21] <oxek> raid is not backup, raid is
high-availability
697 [12:42:52] <abrotman> Don't get me wrong, various levels
have their advantages, but that doesn't make them a
"backup"
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705 [12:53:22] <oxek> where would I see reports of 10.9 breaking
something?
706 [12:54:44] <abrotman> Reuters
707 [12:56:06] <ratrace> CNN might be quoting the Debian BTS
instead of Reuters, tho
708 [12:56:38] *** Quits: cadeskywalker (~madoka@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
709 [12:57:51] <abrotman> oxek: you mean the entire point
release, or an individual package?
710 [12:58:21] <oxek> abrotman: probably everything that has
changed in 10.9
711 [12:58:51] <abrotman> It might end up back in the -devel list
or similar, but probably more likely just to end up in the BTS
712 [12:59:16] <oxek> since I see changes to intel-microcode,
libreoffice, linux kernel, python, systemd, xterm, ... and all of
those are fairly important to me
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715 [13:00:07] <abrotman> does anyone really use Python anymore?
716 [13:00:16] * ratrace coughs politely while staring at abrotman
717 [13:00:34] <abrotman> Oh, right .. I do :)
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728 [13:15:47] <cws> All the time.
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732 [13:18:04] <digdilem> wait, python is real?
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738 [13:22:02] <oxek> digdilem: watch your step, or it might bite
you
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740 [13:24:55] <abrotman> it's just a wrapper for Perl :)
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748 [13:33:23] <oxek> blasphemy
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794 [14:09:11] <nifker> is firefox ESR 78.8 higher than 84.0-1 or
lower?
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796 [14:10:24] <ratrace> nifker: it has no new features since
78.0 and most if not all bug/security fixes that are applicable to
teh code shared between the two, if that's what you're
asking because otherwise 78 < 84.
797 [14:11:07] <nifker> can I get some higher firefox version on
debian without using sid?
798 [14:11:14] <ratrace> you can use snaps
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800 [14:11:43] <nifker> no appimage?
801 [14:12:02] <ratrace> I don't know. I also don't
know if there's flatpak. and you can always just unpack the
upstream tarball .. but I wouldn't.
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803 [14:12:28] <nifker> I dont want to install it system-wide
anyway
804 [14:12:44] <ratrace> you should't install it in your ~/
either
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810 [14:20:08] <oxek> nifker: or flatpak
811 [14:20:44] <oxek> more importantly, why would you want a
higher firefox version?
812 [14:21:02] <oxek> firefox hasn't brought any new
features in a few years
813 [14:21:11] <oxek> it's just moving buttons around,
that's all
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816 [14:21:45] <oxek> (and still managing to consume $100M/year
somehow)
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820 [14:22:39] <abrotman> not true at all
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822 [14:24:40] <abrotman> If you think FF hasn't introduced
new features, you're not paying attention
823 [14:26:01] <oxek> I know every time a new FF is released,
people are scrambling to find out how to disable whatever new
feature it introduces
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825 [14:26:25] <oxek> and if one runs FF with disabled
javascript, then yeah FF has not introduced anything new in over a
decade
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829 [14:28:46] <abff> ah yes "features", forced and
user hostile
830 [14:29:26] <oxek> has anyone ever actually used pocket?
831 [14:30:40] <ratrace> yes
832 [14:31:20] <ratrace> oxek: FF has introduced a lot of privacy
things, new renderer, security features, sandboxing, a LOT of things
that have nothing to do with javascript, "in over a
decade"
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834 [14:31:50] <ratrace> recent versions include some new
mitigations for supercookies if I'm not mistaken. plenty of
nice things to look forward in next ESR
835 [14:32:45] <ratrace> and nobody can use modern internet with
disabled Javascript. yes there's noscript blockers and yes
people whitelist sites they "trust" otherwise they likey
couldn't use them, .. unless you're talking about pure
text/html sites from early 2000s or older
836 [14:33:01] <ratrace> any modern "responsive"
website will fail to render without js.
837 [14:33:33] <oxek> mozilla has also put a lot of money towards
replaced-url
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840 [14:33:47] <ratrace> and if you really only browser pure
text/html from past century, you're the 0.0000001% use case and
nobody cares :)
841 [14:34:02] <oxek> explains how they manage to spend hundreds
of millions of USD every year, without adding anything meaningful to
the browser
842 [14:34:33] <ratrace> that's different. corruption
stinks. misallocated resources stink. but new versions of FF do have
new, useful (And less useful) features
843 [14:34:37] <oxek> if I had that sort of money, I'd have
the best web browser in existence within 4-5 years
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846 [14:34:52] <abrotman> oxek: they are adding things .. but not
always related to the interface
847 [14:34:57] <ratrace> oxek: no you wouldn't :) you'd
just succumb to getting even more money, like google :)
848 [14:35:01] <oxek> hire 100 devs at $1M/year
849 [14:35:06] <abrotman> For example, FF was the first to adopt
DOH
850 [14:35:44] <oxek> abrotman: and yet I've had superior
technolgy (dnscrypt) for many years before :)
851 [14:36:22] <abrotman> that's subjective and not widely
deployed
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853 [14:36:41] <oxek> linux on the desktop is not widely deployed
either
854 [14:36:45] <oxek> yet here we are
855 [14:36:57] <abrotman> here .. you are ..
856 [14:37:15] <abrotman> where's your family?
857 [14:38:27] *** Quits: odnes_ (~odnes@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
858 [14:38:45] <oxek> I don't know, I don't track them
and use telemetry to find out where they are at all times and what
they like doing :p
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860 [14:40:10] <oxek> ok, I admit I exagerrate a little, and FF
has added some features, but nowhere near what one would expect at
100s of millions of dollars every year
861 [14:41:26] <ThothK> @oxek what are two examples of new
features you think they should have added in the last two years?
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864 [14:44:45] <oxek> I heavily modify FF user interface and use
a lot of addons, so there isn't really anything I'm
missing in firefox.
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866 [14:45:20] <oxek> so I'd be happy if mozilla just left
FF alone
867 [14:45:39] <oxek> focus on speed, memory consumptions, and
not annoying addon devs by throwing sticks under their feet
868 [14:45:52] <oxek> and not make frivolous user interface
changes, like removing compact mode
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877 [14:51:37] <oxek>
replaced-url
878 [14:51:49] <oxek> total revenue in 2019 was $828M
879 [14:52:15] <oxek> there's a lot more that could be done
with that sort of money
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881 [14:54:08] <abrotman> How much does Google spend on Chrome
each year?
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885 [14:56:03] <oxek> isn't that some sort of logical
fallacy?
886 [14:56:06] *** Quits: bolovanos (~bolovanos@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
887 [14:56:31] <abrotman> No, I'm asking if anyone knows
what it costs to maintain browsers, to add features, maintain staff,
etc
888 [14:56:49] <abrotman> It's entirely possible
they're barely making ends meet at 900M
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890 [14:57:19] <alex11> after today's update to 10.9... is
it normal to have kernel 4.19.0-16 and 4.19.0-14 but not -15?
891 [14:57:19] <oxek> something would be very wrong if one could
barely make ends meet at 900M
892 [14:57:29] <oxek> alex11: -15 was not released
893 [14:57:32] <alex11> k
894 [14:57:35] <abrotman> But again, FF seems to have been
placing a lot of focus on privacy/security
895 [14:57:40] <oxek> alex11: you can see it in the changelog for
the kernel package
896 [14:58:27] <oxek> hmm, or perhaps the changelog does not list
if a version was actaully released and not just tagged
897 [14:59:51] <alex11> i could've checked the tracker
898 [14:59:54] <alex11> oh well
899 [14:59:56] <oxek> abrotman: at $1M/year sponsorship, I could
get you 100 PhD students studying privacy/security in a browser
900 [15:00:50] *** Quits: freebench (~freebench@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
901 [15:01:01] <abrotman> oxek: you're going to pay them
each 10,000 ?
902 [15:01:21] <oxek> abrotman: PhDs are cheap if you source it
from 3rd world countries, and the quality is comparable
903 [15:01:53] <abrotman> I'm sure you've evaluated all
of them, and the good ones work cheap .. cool
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906 [15:04:28] <ratrace> oxek: "PhDs are cheap if you source
it from 3rd world countries...." and there you go, you've
just nuked any argument you had against FF financial management :)
907 [15:04:59] <ratrace> capitalism at work. frig local workers,
let's outsource fo cheap 3rd world countries, those students
will be happy to have food and a roof over their head.
908 [15:05:25] <oxek> as sad as it is, yeah pretty much
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911 [15:06:07] <abrotman> It should perhaps be noted the Mozilla
HQ is along the Embarcadero in SF
912 [15:06:22] <oxek> 100PhDs in greece/india/vietnam could do
just as much as 100PhDs in sillicon valley
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914 [15:06:53] <oxek> while costing much less
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919 [15:08:41] <jiggawattz> abrotman: I don't think their
headquarters is actually there
920 [15:08:48] <jiggawattz> that's just like a legal address
921 [15:09:15] <oxek> and it would be a life-changing experience
for those PhDs in 3rd world countries, whereas the USA-ian PhDs
could still easily find a job at
Apple/MS/Google/Facebook/Amazon/Tesla
922 [15:09:21] <abrotman> Oh, you're right, apparemtny in
Mtn View
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924 [15:09:35] <abrotman> oxek: You want to exploit people ? :)
925 [15:09:42] <jiggawattz> oxek: 3rd world PhDs don't
necessarily work for so little anymore
926 [15:09:59] <jiggawattz> In Belarus, $3000/month is attainable
for any IT guy
927 [15:10:13] <oxek> I should move to Belarus
928 [15:10:15] <jiggawattz> that's still much less than
U.S.A., but it's not $10.000/year
929 [15:10:18] *** Quits: |shark| (~shark_@replaced-ip ) (Quit: blub)
930 [15:10:27] <jiggawattz> oxek: from what country are you?
931 [15:10:34] <jiggawattz> Belarus really sucks
932 [15:10:46] <jiggawattz> Lots of protectionism for local
companies which produce crap
933 [15:10:59] <jiggawattz> so you pay more for lower quality
shit
934 [15:11:05] <oxek> I'd happily produce crap at $3k/month
935 [15:11:14] <jiggawattz> no, you don't understand
936 [15:11:22] <jiggawattz> you need to produce quality to get
$3000/month
937 [15:11:27] <jiggawattz> but then you are forced to buy crap
938 [15:11:37] <jiggawattz> unless you travel to Lithuania every
weekend to do your shopping
939 [15:11:46] <jiggawattz> but then customs is a hassle, etc
940 [15:12:01] <oxek> belarus isn't in EU, is it?
941 [15:12:08] <jiggawattz> EAEU, my niggah
942 [15:12:16] <abrotman> ahem ...
943 [15:12:20] <jiggawattz> a.k.a. RUSSIA-LAND
944 [15:12:25] <oxek> EAEU?
945 [15:12:30] <jiggawattz> Eurasian Economic Union
946 [15:12:47] <jiggawattz> oh sorry abrotman "niggah"
is a term of endearment here
947 [15:12:59] <abrotman> Last warning
948 [15:13:04] <oxek> I'm sure I could still order stuff
from outside of Belarus
949 [15:13:10] <jiggawattz> abrotman: I don't really
appreciate your U.S.-centric worldview
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953 [15:13:25] <abrotman> jiggawattz: it's not appropriate
anywhere. Thanks
954 [15:13:39] <oxek> but I digress, sorry for making this
offtopic "rant"
955 [15:14:03] <oxek> how many of you have updated to 10.9,
rebooted, and everything running fine?
956 [15:17:10] <oxek> I downloaded the updates, and have read
through the changelogs thanks to apt-listchanges
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959 [15:17:36] <abrotman> oxek: is the system remote?
960 [15:17:46] <oxek> abrotman: one of them is, one is not
961 [15:17:53] <abrotman> seems like you test on the local one?
:)
962 [15:17:58] <oxek> yeah
963 [15:18:15] <abrotman> oxek: FWIW, in 99.99999% of the cases,
you'll be fine (in my experience)
964 [15:18:20] <oxek> I could probably get back from some sort of
catastrophic failure
965 [15:18:31] <oxek> but would prefer to know other
people's experiences first, so that I don't have to
966 [15:18:49] <oxek> I'm very conservative in terms of
package updates
967 [15:18:56] <oxek> debian is a good fit for me
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969 [15:19:42] <oxek> (and I'm happy that firefox-esr
exists)
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972 [15:21:05] <oxek> something like "Beware, the kernel was
packaged incorrectly and the ext4 filesystem now causes silent file
corruption"
973 [15:21:34] <oxek> I don't know how realistic that is
though
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984 [15:29:06] <frikinz> Didn't know there was an update
today. Upgraded and rebooted just fine (laptop with desktop/kde and
server)
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1004 [16:01:05] <oxek> frikinz: thanks for the report
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1023 [16:37:47] <cws> Well that's a hostname.
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1025 [16:39:08] <oxek> indeed
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1081 [18:21:21] <jiggawattz> cws: constipated.cricket is available
too
1082 [18:21:40] <jiggawattz> something like $11 registration than
$2.73/year renewals after that
1083 [18:21:47] <jiggawattz> s/than/then
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1124 [18:58:07] <Throwawayname> Is there an easy way to force
dpkg/apt to think I have a package installed?
1125 [18:58:22] <sney> !equivs
1126 [18:58:22] <dpkg> equivs is a package that enables you to
create dummy packages that tell <apt> you really have
installed (through some other means) the package. apt install
equivs, and read /usr/share/doc/equivs/*, see also <usrlocal>.
A better plan is often to adapt the Debian packages to your needs,
ask me about <package recompile> <uupdate> <ssb>.
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1129 [18:59:26] <Throwawayname> sney, Thank you
1130 [18:59:34] <sney> np
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1149 [19:14:04] <isapgswell> how to avoid linux from controlling
fans
1150 [19:14:05] <isapgswell> ?
1151 [19:14:15] <isapgswell> acpi fan is builtin
1152 [19:15:00] <wsky> disable all os-wise fan controll
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1154 [19:17:21] <isapgswell> wsky how to do that?
1155 [19:17:46] <wsky> find out what part of your os controlls the
fan and make it disabled
1156 [19:18:03] <isapgswell> wsky what about linux fan?
1157 [19:18:22] <wsky> what is your device?
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1159 [19:18:32] <isapgswell> wsky how to disable acpi fan?
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1161 [19:18:43] <isapgswell> wsky dell G7
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1163 [19:19:07] <wsky> it probaly provides a daemon you can
disable with systemctl
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1165 [19:19:46] <wsky> i have no details on it, my x250 deals with
it on firmware level since the very begining of it
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1168 [19:21:59] <isapgswell> wsky my G7 control the fans on bios,
so i would like to disable linux take care on it
1169 [19:22:12] <wsky> i understand
1170 [19:22:23] <wsky> and i already told you everything you need
to know
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1172 [19:22:41] <isapgswell> wsky thank you
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1259 [20:49:10] <jak2000> hi all
1260 [20:49:19] <oxek> have any problems been reported yet as a
result of 10.9 update?
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1262 [20:50:03] <jak2000> where can download iso with lastest
version of debian? Full
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1266 [20:50:57] <sney> jak2000: cdimage.debian.org
1267 [20:51:07] <sney> there's also a netinstaller on the
debian.org main page.
1268 [20:51:44] <jak2000> yes
1269 [20:51:55] <jak2000> downloaded netinstall but i think is
corruped
1270 [20:52:30] <jak2000> this:
replaced-url
1271 [20:52:46] <jak2000> its the correct?
1272 [20:52:49] <jak2000> debian-10.8.0-amd64-xfce-CD-1.iso
1273 [20:53:02] <sney> that will install debian, yes
1274 [20:53:16] <sney> there are a lot of options, it helps to
read the page to find out what you want.
1275 [20:53:32] *** Joins: Panom (~user@replaced-ip )
1276 [20:53:49] <sney> there are also instructions on that page to
verify your download with the checksum files
1277 [20:54:11] *** Parts: Panom (~user@replaced-ip ) ()
1278 [20:54:49] <EdePopede> looks like the ISOs aren't
available yet, how long does it take usually?
1279 [20:55:29] <sney> it depends, maybe within a few hours, maybe
on Monday
1280 [20:55:34] <jak2000> why cant download:
1281 [20:55:34] <jak2000>
replaced-url
1282 [20:56:15] <sney> jak2000: your url is mangled, remove the
'#:~:text' string
1283 [20:57:38] *** Joins: sillyotter (~sillyotte@replaced-ip )
1284 [20:57:41] <jak2000> similar:
replaced-url
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1286 [20:58:22] *** Joins: TaZeR (~TaZeR@replaced-ip )
1287 [20:58:27] <sney> you need to LOOK WITH YOUR EYES at what you
are typing. the url is wrong. so it's downloading html instead
of the iso.
1288 [20:58:45] *** Joins: paulgrmn (~paulgrmn@replaced-ip )
1289 [20:59:05] <jak2000> removing /iso-cd/#:~=debian-10 #:~=
1290 [20:59:34] <jak2000> :)
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1294 [21:05:20] <oxek> jak2000: also consider if using the
netinstall would be better
1295 [21:05:36] <oxek> it's a smaller .iso
1296 [21:06:00] <oxek> and maybe consider using bittorrent for the
download
1297 [21:07:12] *** Joins: valde (~valde@replaced-ip )
1298 [21:08:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 945
1299 [21:08:33] <jak2000> ok, thanks
1300 [21:08:46] <jak2000> anyone here use proxmox?
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1308 [21:14:53] <aminvakil> jak2000: yes, and i'd be glad to
answer you if i can in ##proxmox
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1325 [21:33:42] <jak2000> sorry for paste this image, i need help
and need install openssh-server
1326 [21:33:43] <jak2000>
replaced-url
1327 [21:33:45] *** Quits: bertbob (~bertbob@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1328 [21:33:47] <jak2000> how to fix?
1329 [21:35:19] *** Joins: blkmanta (~quassel@replaced-ip )
1330 [21:35:37] <Mister00X> Is there a way to check if a package
is backportable
1331 [21:35:41] *** Joins: Anarchy7 (1f1034e4@replaced-ip )
1332 [21:35:54] <oxek> ,checkbackport openssh
1333 [21:35:55] <judd> Backporting package openssh in
sid→buster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies:
Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 9), dh-runit (>= 2.8.8).
1334 [21:36:00] <oxek> Mister00X: that's how
1335 [21:36:11] <Mister00X> oxek: thanks
1336 [21:36:20] <oxek> ignore the part about debhelper-compat,
that's an error
1337 [21:36:25] <jmcnaught> jak2000: fix (or pastebin) your
/etc/apt/sources.list
1338 [21:36:27] <Mister00X> ,checkbackport podman
1339 [21:36:34] *** Joins: TriJetScud (~TriJetScu@replaced-ip )
1340 [21:36:49] <jak2000> ahhahaha
1341 [21:36:54] <sney> you can also /msg the bot directly, if
you're just looking it up for your own purposes
1342 [21:36:58] *** Quits: stree (~stree@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1343 [21:37:01] <jak2000> cant acces via conosole / putty
1344 [21:37:06] <jak2000> need paste a imge
1345 [21:37:09] <jak2000> *image
1346 [21:37:10] <judd> Backporting package podman in
sid→buster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies:
Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 12), conmon, golang-dbus-dev
(>= 5.0.2~), golang-github-appc-cni-dev (>= 0.8),
golang-github-buger-goterm-dev,
golang-github-checkpoint-restore-go-criu-dev,
golang-github-containernetworking-plugins-dev (>= 0.8.7),
golang-github-containers-buildah-dev (>= 1.19.6), golang-github-
1347 [21:37:11] <judd> containers-common-dev (>= 0.33.4),
golang-github-containers-image-dev (>= 5.10.2),
golang-github-containers-ocicrypt-dev,
golang-github-containers-psgo-dev,
golang-github-containers-storage-dev (>= 1.24.6),
golang-github-coreos-bbolt-dev (>= 1.3.3~),
golang-github-coreos-go-iptables-dev (>= 0.4.2~),
golang-github-coreos-go-systemd-dev (>= 20~),
golang-github-cyphar-filepath-securejoin-dev (>= (3 more
messages)
1348 [21:37:30] <Anarchy7> hey all I upgrade from debian8 to
debian10 now rtorrent isnt working : rtorrent
1349 [21:37:30] *** Quits: alex11 (~alex11@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1350 [21:37:30] <Anarchy7> rtorrent: error while loading shared
libraries: libcppunit-1.13.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No
such file or directory. I tried sudo apt --reinstall install
rtorrent , but didnt help
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1354 [21:37:59] <oxek> Anarchy7: did you update in one step, or go
debian8->debian9->debian10?
1355 [21:38:01] <EdePopede> 8→9→10, that's how you
go
1356 [21:38:05] <towo`> Anarchy7, if you really have upgraded from
8 to 10, you lost
1357 [21:38:06] <oxek> and did you read the release notes?
1358 [21:38:29] <Anarchy7> First 9 and then 10, I wanted to save a
bit reading for you
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1361 [21:38:58] *** Joins: ax562 (~ax562@replaced-ip )
1362 [21:39:18] <jak2000> jmcgnh i installed lastest version of
debian: cat /etc/issue Debian 10
1363 [21:39:25] <jak2000>
replaced-url
1364 [21:39:35] <jak2000> anyone can sed me the sources list for
Debian 10?
1365 [21:39:46] <sney> !buster sources.list
1366 [21:39:47] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for
"Buster" has the lines: "deb
replaced-url
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1368 [21:39:53] *** Joins: freshtube (~freshtube@replaced-ip )
1369 [21:39:57] <sney> you are missing the first one. probably
because you had no network during install.
1370 [21:40:30] *** Joins: TheCreeper (~TheCreepe@replaced-ip )
1371 [21:41:06] <jak2000> ok
1372 [21:42:04] <jak2000> working :0
1373 [21:42:41] *** Quits: sinaowolabi (~Sina@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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remember that this is the internet)
1376 [21:46:58] <Anarchy7> I think I have upgraded
libcppunit-1.13.so to 1.14 , but rtorrent wants 1.13.. I went to
configuration file but didnt see anywhere a path or name for
libcppunit-1.13. Is there anything you can recommend?
1377 [21:50:17] *** Joins: stree (~stree@replaced-ip )
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1379 [21:51:44] <oxek> !frankendebian
1380 [21:51:44] <dpkg> When you get random packages from random
repositories, mix multiple releases of Debian, or mix Debian and
derived distributions, you have a mess. There's no way anyone
can support this "distribution of Frankenstein" and
#debian certainly doesn't want to even try. Ask me about
<reinstall>
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1384 [21:52:17] *** Joins: isapgswell (bb6962f5@replaced-ip )
1385 [21:53:17] <isapgswell> why is gdm-x-session trying to
allocate framebuffer like this
1386 [21:54:04] <isapgswell> gdm-x-session[992]: (II) modeset(0):
Allocate new frame buffer 3840x1080 stride
1387 [21:54:26] *** Quits: czesmir (~stefan@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1388 [21:54:28] <isapgswell> my external monitor is connected to
nvidia
1389 [21:54:38] <isapgswell> not intel
1390 [21:55:16] *** Joins: Pepper (~fromhell@replaced-ip )
1391 [21:55:22] <Pepper> hallo can i have help
1392 [21:55:29] <oxek> !ask
1393 [21:55:29] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For
example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian
version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I
expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if
anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all
volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get
an answer try a few hours later or on
replaced-url
1394 [21:55:59] <Pepper> oxek, /dev/sda2 28705700 21134388 6090096
78% /
1395 [21:56:01] *** Joins: jak2020 (~jak2000@replaced-ip )
1396 [21:56:16] <Pepper> how can , i do some thing
1397 [21:56:21] <Pepper> soon it will full >
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1400 [21:57:58] *** Quits: jak2000 (~jak2000@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
1401 [21:58:42] <aminvakil> let me bring my magic wand and expand
your filesystem size
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1404 [22:01:16] <Anarchy7> oxek I dont have random packages I used
the sources.list which dpkg recommends.
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1408 [22:02:52] <oxek> Anarchy7: how did you upgrade libcppunit
then?
1409 [22:03:17] <oxek> rtorrent in debian depends on the exact
versions of libraries built in debian
1410 [22:03:22] *** Quits: coot (~coot@replaced-ip ) (Quit: coot)
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1412 [22:03:36] <Anarchy7> I didnt upgrade it by hand I alsways
used apt-get update and then apt-get upgrade
1413 [22:04:44] <oxek> then everything should work; since it
doesn't, something is weird
1414 [22:05:34] <oxek> `apt-get -o
DPkg::Options::="--force-confnew" --reinstall install
rtorrent`
1415 [22:05:42] <oxek> beware, it will reset the system config
files for rtorrent
1416 [22:06:35] <oxek> or just purge the package, do autopurge,
and reinstall the package
1417 [22:09:16] <jmcnaught> judd: depends rtorrent
1418 [22:09:17] <judd> Package rtorrent in buster/amd64 --
depends: libc6 (>= 2.14), libcppunit-1.14-0, libcurl4 (>=
7.16.3), libgcc1 (>= 1:3.0), libncursesw6 (>= 6), libstdc++6
(>= 5.2), libtinfo6 (>= 6), libtorrent20, libxmlrpc-core-c3.
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1423 [22:11:33] <jmcnaught> Anarchy7: rtorrent in buster depends
on libcppunit-1.14-0 not 1.13, maybe you can make a pastebin of the
error you are getting, and "apt policy rtorrent"?
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##replaced-url
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1429 [22:15:43] <Anarchy7>
replaced-url
1430 [22:17:07] <jmcnaught> Anarchy7: so you have rtorrent
installed from the Debian package, and also rtorrent in /usr/local
which you may have installed from source
1431 [22:17:33] <jmcnaught> The one in /usr/local is probably
older than the one from buster if it's asking for an older
version of that library
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1435 [22:21:30] <Anarchy7> I installed rtorrent in 2016 and then
last year. definetly one installation is from 2016. but my last
installation from 2020 was the working version
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1438 [22:23:42] <Anarchy7> can I delete everything related to
rtorrent and then reinstall it?
1439 [22:24:47] <jmcnaught> Anarchy7: just get rid of the one in
/usr/local and use the rtorrent Debian package, you should not need
to reinstall that.
1440 [22:25:42] *** Quits: well_laid_lawn (~Jean-luc@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 3.0)
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1442 [22:28:19] <Anarchy7> I will try
1443 [22:28:29] <isapgswell> is it possible to use ajax concept
when using 2d/3d accel?
1444 [22:32:40] *** Quits: mihi (~mihi@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1445 [22:32:53] <Pepper> hallo, again how can i make passwd -u
user , whith some message ?
1446 [22:34:17] *** Quits: isapgswell (bb6962f5@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Connection closed)
1447 [22:35:16] *** Joins: epony (epony@replaced-ip )
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1449 [22:36:46] *** Joins: tagomago (~tagomago@replaced-ip )
1450 [22:36:56] <Pepper> when user will try to login
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1452 [22:38:39] *** Quits: arpagjiki (~arpa@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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1465 [22:50:39] <velix> Interesting. Anyone with an idea, why
there's no mssql-server on Debian in the microsoft repository?
Licensing issues?
replaced-url
1466 [22:50:41] *** Quits: hwpplayer1 (~hwpplayer@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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1468 [22:54:36] <velix> Oh. Seems like latest release is
ubuntu/18.04/
1469 [22:56:13] *** Joins: coc0nut (~coc0nut@replaced-ip )
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1474 [23:00:41] <velix> It still works on latest Debian, nice.
1475 [23:00:45] *** Joins: cnsvc (~cvsnc@replaced-ip )
1476 [23:00:58] <velix> Wow. Installation time on Windows: about
10 minutes. Installation times on Debian: 1-2 minutes :D
1477 [23:01:16] <velix> Funny, Microsoft did better on Linux than
on Windows ;)
1478 [23:01:22] <rk4> i have lots of ideas but they're all
antagonistic to someone wanting to run mssql on debain
1479 [23:01:23] <remline> velix: Nice! Windows installers seem
pretty shaky.
1480 [23:01:28] *** Joins: SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@replaced-ip )
1481 [23:01:47] <velix> rk4: shall I explain it?
1482 [23:01:49] *** Joins: isapgswell (bb6962f5@replaced-ip )
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1488 [23:03:26] <velix> We use properitary software to scan and
semi-automatically read questionnaires. The software installs SQL
Server Express locally. So a total horror to backup the whole thing.
I now have the SQL server running on a local virtual server that has
a failover and is snapshotted several times a day. Furthermore there
is a backup to tape 2x a day.
1489 [23:03:28] *** Quits: coc0nut (~coc0nut@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ZNC - ##replaced-url
1490 [23:03:43] *** Quits: el (~el@replaced-ip ) (Quit: brb)
1491 [23:04:02] <rk4> what sort of tape library?
1492 [23:04:06] *** Quits: dionysus69 (~dionysus6@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
1493 [23:04:18] <velix> rk4: Dunno... It's part of a HPE
cluster.
1494 [23:04:30] <velix> High end stuff, the whole machine was ~
20k
1495 [23:04:30] *** Quits: akp55 (~akp55@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1496 [23:04:43] <isapgswell> gdm-x-session[992]: (II) modeset(0):
Allocate new frame buffer 3840x1080 stride
1497 [23:05:12] <isapgswell> why this allocation if my external
monitor is connected into nvidia
1498 [23:05:14] <isapgswell> ?
1499 [23:05:39] <isapgswell> should be: gdm-x-session[992]: (II)
modeset(0): Allocate new frame buffer 3840x1080 stride
1500 [23:05:43] *** Joins: el (~el@replaced-ip )
1501 [23:05:51] <isapgswell> and gdm-x-session[992]: (II)
NVIDIA(G0): Allocate new frame buffer 3840x1080 stride
1502 [23:05:59] <isapgswell> sorry
1503 [23:06:04] <isapgswell> both 1920x1080
1504 [23:06:39] <isapgswell> gdm-x-session[992]: (II) modeset(0):
Allocate new frame buffer 1920x1080 stride AND gdm-x-session[992]:
(II) NVIDIA(G0): Allocate new frame buffer 1920x1080 stride
1505 [23:07:52] <Pepper> when user will try to login
1506 [23:08:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 939
1507 [23:08:07] *** Joins: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip )
1508 [23:08:08] <Pepper> hallo, again how can i make passwd -u
user , whith some message ?
1509 [23:08:46] <isapgswell> pepper create a script
1510 [23:09:39] <Pepper> maby there i can download it ?
1511 [23:09:55] *** Quits: a_west (~a_west@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Bye!)
1512 [23:10:26] <isapgswell> pepper dont know
1513 [23:10:59] <isapgswell> pepper you can download linucommand
book and see creating bash script
1514 [23:11:12] *** Joins: drith (~drith@replaced-ip )
1515 [23:11:18] <Pepper> isapgswell, can i ask question about
,setquota
1516 [23:11:29] <isapgswell> pepper
replaced-url
1517 [23:12:05] <Pepper> i add user, setquota user setquota -u
rozha 500M 500M 0 0 /
1518 [23:12:32] <Pepper> if i try download and save more than 500
mb it save
1519 [23:12:36] <Pepper> and i can download
1520 [23:12:57] *** Joins: a_west (~a_west@replaced-ip )
1521 [23:13:22] *** Joins: mtn (~mtn@replaced-ip )
1522 [23:13:29] <isapgswell> pepper for that user no
1523 [23:13:32] *** Joins: xet7 (~xet7@replaced-ip )
1524 [23:14:31] <Pepper> isapgswell, i add test user , rozha, make
setquota user setquota -u rozha 500M 500M 0 0 /
1525 [23:14:41] <Pepper> try to download like film
1526 [23:14:42] *** Quits: jxel (Thunderbir@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1527 [23:14:46] <Pepper> it download and save
1528 [23:15:05] <isapgswell> pepper so your quota is not effective
1529 [23:15:19] <Pepper> how can i check it
1530 [23:15:21] <Pepper> ?
1531 [23:16:47] *** Quits: oxek (oxek@replaced-ip ) (Quit: oxek)
1532 [23:16:59] <Anarchy7> jmcnaught I deleted the rtorrent file
in /usr/local. when I type "sudo systemctl start rtorrent"
nothing happens, but when I type "rtorrent", it starts and
everthing is fine here is my service file
replaced-url
1533 [23:17:16] <Pepper> isapgswell ,replaced-url
1534 [23:17:20] <isapgswell> sudo quotaon -v /
1535 [23:17:32] <isapgswell> pepper sudo quotaon -v /
1536 [23:18:05] <Pepper>
replaced-url
1537 [23:18:14] <isapgswell> pepper sudo edquota -u username
1538 [23:18:55] <Pepper> Disk quotas for user rozha (uid 1002):
1539 [23:18:55] <Pepper> Filesystem blocks soft hard inodes soft
hard
1540 [23:19:01] <Pepper> up sorry
1541 [23:19:20] <Pepper>
replaced-url
1542 [23:19:34] <jmcnaught> Anarchy7: I don't know much about
running system services attached to tmux/screen sorry. Type=oneshot
is probably wrong though.
1543 [23:20:20] <isapgswell> pepper pastebin your fstab
1544 [23:20:32] <Anarchy7> the service file was created by a
script, what is oneshot?
1545 [23:21:54] <isapgswell> pepper may you forgot to change
/etc/fstab
1546 [23:22:37] <Pepper> isapgswell
replaced-url
1547 [23:22:55] *** Joins: hwpplayer1 (~hwpplayer@replaced-ip )
1548 [23:22:56] *** Quits: hwpplayer1 (~hwpplayer@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
1549 [23:23:11] <isapgswell> pepper file /etc/fstab
1550 [23:23:18] <isapgswell> pepper cat /etc/fstab
1551 [23:23:24] <Pepper> ah okey
1552 [23:24:03] <Pepper>
replaced-url
1553 [23:24:43] *** Joins: fluiD (~fluiD@replaced-ip )
1554 [23:25:28] *** Joins: mentor (~m@replaced-ip )
1555 [23:25:44] <fluiD> I'm trying to get my debian install
set up so I don't have to enter a password for sudo commands.
I've seen numerous recommendations to add NOPASSWD to the
sudoers file but that doesn't seem to fix it.
1556 [23:25:57] <isapgswell> pepper did you run: sudo quotacheck
-cugm /
1557 [23:26:13] <dvs> fluiD: It does for me.
1558 [23:26:16] *** Quits: SponiX (~sponix@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1559 [23:26:24] <fluiD> dvs, :(
1560 [23:26:54] <Pepper> isapgswell;
replaced-url
1561 [23:27:07] <isapgswell> pepper after editing /etc/fstab you
need to reboot
1562 [23:27:12] <fluiD> #user privilege specification
1563 [23:27:13] *** Quits: Mister00X (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1564 [23:27:21] <dvs> fluiD: ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL
1565 [23:27:29] <fluiD> debian ALL=(ALL:ALL) NOPASSWD:ALL
1566 [23:27:37] *** Quits: StathisA (~StathisA@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
1567 [23:27:43] <isapgswell> pepper you trying do quota /home ??
1568 [23:27:44] <dvs> wrong
1569 [23:27:46] *** Quits: quasineutral (~quasineut@replaced-ip##) (Quit: The Lounge - ##replaced-url
1570 [23:28:02] <Pepper> no onky users
1571 [23:28:02] <dvs> oh wait. That's not bad.
1572 [23:28:11] <fluiD> dvs, I just changed it to yours, logged
out and logged back in, still asks for a password
1573 [23:28:11] *** Quits: elios (~kia@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
1574 [23:28:38] <isapgswell> pepper you should use quotas on /home
1575 [23:28:52] *** Joins: Mister00X (~quassel@replaced-ip )
1576 [23:28:58] *** Joins: quasineutral (~quasineut@replaced-ip )
1577 [23:29:52] <isapgswell> pepper unless you did not separate
this(home) partition
1578 [23:29:55] *** Quits: SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1579 [23:30:18] <Pepper> setquota -u user 2000M 2200M 0 0 /
1580 [23:30:27] <isapgswell> pepper you trying to quota /
1581 [23:30:29] <Pepper> how to separete partition
1582 [23:30:45] <isapgswell> pepper your /home is appart
1583 [23:30:52] <isapgswell> pepper already
1584 [23:31:07] <wsky> find another dealer
1585 [23:31:19] *** Joins: polardroid (~polardroi@replaced-ip )
1586 [23:31:30] *** Joins: SoulsForBelial (~SoulsForB@replaced-ip )
1587 [23:31:32] <Pepper> okey what i must do
1588 [23:31:58] <isapgswell> pepper you need to put
usrquota,grpquota after defaults
1589 [23:31:59] <Pepper> i downt whant reboot system
1590 [23:32:07] *** Joins: elios (~kia@replaced-ip )
1591 [23:32:12] <isapgswell> pepper sorry you will need
1592 [23:32:21] <isapgswell> pepper i think
1593 [23:32:29] *** Joins: StathisA (~StathisA@replaced-ip )
1594 [23:32:34] *** Quits: luuuciano (~luuuciano@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1595 [23:32:44] <Pepper> and then after , i will add user, make
him quote reboot system
1596 [23:32:58] <isapgswell> pepper you can try remount instead
1597 [23:33:12] <Pepper> can you explain more
1598 [23:33:21] <Pepper> if you have time
1599 [23:33:26] <isapgswell> pepper
UUID=1f4c2de0-b77c-46aa-9ced-cb5fad4446ba /home ext4
defaults,usrquota,grpquota 0 2
1600 [23:33:59] <fluiD> I've added my user to the sudo group.
I tried changing the %sudo line in /etc/sudoers to include the
NOPASSWD, still asks for a password
1601 [23:34:32] <Pepper> isapgswell, can you explain what i , must
do ?
1602 [23:34:41] *** Joins: well_laid_lawn (~Jean-luc@replaced-ip )
1603 [23:34:41] <dvs> fluiD: Oh, I added my user ID to the sudoers
file
1604 [23:34:51] <isapgswell> pepper and: sudo mount -o
remount,usrquota,grpquota /home
1605 [23:35:20] <isapgswell> pepper clear / usrquota,grpquota
1606 [23:35:22] <Pepper> isapgswell add
1607 [23:35:59] <Pepper> >usrquota,grpquota
1608 [23:35:59] <Pepper> bash: usrquota,grpquota: command not
found
1609 [23:36:05] <isapgswell> pepper your /etc/fstab has this line
like this: UUID=1f4c2de0-b77c-46aa-9ced-cb5fad4446ba /home ext4
defaults,usrquota,grpquota 0 2
1610 [23:36:20] <isapgswell> pepper do you quota package
installed?
1611 [23:36:25] *** Joins: luuuciano (~luuuciano@replaced-ip )
1612 [23:36:34] <Pepper> yes
1613 [23:37:18] <isapgswell> pepper did you run command: sudo
mount -o remount,usrquota,grpquota /home ??
1614 [23:37:57] <isapgswell> pepper or simply: sudo mount -o
remount /home
1615 [23:38:08] <isapgswell> pepper after edited fstab
1616 [23:38:11] <isapgswell> pepper corrent
1617 [23:38:16] <isapgswell> pepper correct
1618 [23:38:22] <Pepper> isapgswell
replaced-url
1619 [23:38:41] <Pepper> yes i run
1620 [23:38:59] <Pepper> ~)> sudo mount -o
remount,usrquota,grpquota /home
1621 [23:38:59] <Pepper> (root@replaced-ip )(~)>
1622 [23:39:08] <isapgswell> pepper did you run this command: sudo
quotacheck -cugm /
1623 [23:39:16] <isapgswell> pepper did you run this command: sudo
quotacheck -cugm /home
1624 [23:39:28] <isapgswell> pepper did you run this command: sudo
quotacheck -cugm /home <---
1625 [23:39:40] <Pepper> (root@replaced-ip )(~)>quotacheck -cugm /
1626 [23:39:40] <Pepper> quotacheck: Quota for users is enabled on
mountpoint / so quotacheck might damage the file.
1627 [23:39:40] <Pepper> Please turn quotas off or use -f to force
checking.
1628 [23:40:02] <isapgswell> pepper /home <----------
1629 [23:40:23] <isapgswell> pepper quotacheck -cugm /home
1630 [23:40:37] <Pepper> now okey
1631 [23:40:46] <isapgswell> pepper forgot /
1632 [23:40:54] <isapgswell> pepper you quota is /home
1633 [23:41:06] *** Joins: jxel (Thunderbir@replaced-ip )
1634 [23:41:25] <isapgswell> forget /, treat now just /home
1635 [23:41:43] <isapgswell> pepper pastebin you new fstab
1636 [23:41:49] <Pepper>
replaced-url
1637 [23:42:03] <Pepper> fstbin ok moment
1638 [23:42:54] *** Quits: karmar281_ (~karmar281@replaced-ip ) (Quit: IRC for Sailfish 0.9)
1639 [23:43:40] *** Quits: ChmEarl (~chmearl@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1640 [23:43:49] *** Quits: Mister00X (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Quit: "I'll be back" — Arnold
Schwarzenegger)
1641 [23:44:39] <Pepper> isapgswell
1642 [23:44:40] <Pepper>
replaced-url
1643 [23:45:28] <isapgswell> pepper it is wrong
1644 [23:46:08] <Pepper> what can i do
1645 [23:46:23] <isapgswell> pepper put usrquota,grpquota after
defaults in the /home line
1646 [23:46:36] <Pepper> where i must put it
1647 [23:46:36] <Pepper> ?
1648 [23:47:26] <isapgswell> pepper localize /home line
1649 [23:48:05] <isapgswell> pepper and type usrquota,grpquota
after defaults in the fstab file
1650 [23:48:33] <Pepper> can you explain, where i must go ?
1651 [23:48:40] *** Joins: locrian9 (~mike@replaced-ip )
1652 [23:48:43] <isapgswell> pepper open fstab
1653 [23:48:45] <Pepper> i , am not super user
1654 [23:48:48] <Pepper> ok
1655 [23:48:57] <isapgswell> pepper /etc/fstab
1656 [23:49:14] <Pepper> done
1657 [23:49:28] <isapgswell> pepper localize /home
1658 [23:50:17] <Pepper> on what line put it
1659 [23:50:21] <isapgswell> pepper in the same line you type like
this: defaults,usrquota,grpquota
1660 [23:50:45] <isapgswell> pepper
UUID=1f4c2de0-b77c-46aa-9ced-cb5fad4446ba /home ext4
defaults,usrquota,grpquota 0 2
1661 [23:51:58] <Pepper> ah you meen i must change /dev/sda1 this
line UUID=1f4c2de0-b77c-46aa-9ced-cb5fad4446ba /home ext4
defaults,usrquota,grpquota 0 2
1662 [23:52:44] *** Joins: nolan___ (~nolan_@replaced-ip )
1663 [23:53:01] <isapgswell> pepper sda4 pepper
1664 [23:53:24] <Pepper> done
1665 [23:53:56] <isapgswell> pepper remove usrquota,grpquota from
fstab, sda2 line
1666 [23:54:10] <isapgswell> pepper leave this:
UUID=e93bc85e-0083-47c8-a684-58e51027d6ec / ext4
errors=remount-ro,usrquota,grpquota 0 1
1667 [23:54:35] <isapgswell> pepper without usrquota,grpquota
1668 [23:54:40] <Pepper> i can just # ?
1669 [23:54:46] <isapgswell> pepper
UUID=e93bc85e-0083-47c8-a684-58e51027d6ec / ext4 errors=remount-ro 0
1
1670 [23:55:30] <isapgswell> pepper you if you copy paste below
1671 [23:55:46] <isapgswell> pepper you can, if yo ucopy paste
below
1672 [23:55:46] *** Quits: dvs (~hibbard@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1673 [23:55:57] <Pepper> isapgswell
1674 [23:55:58] <isapgswell> pepper without # below
1675 [23:55:58] <Pepper>
replaced-url
1676 [23:56:03] <Pepper> it look like that
1677 [23:56:22] *** Quits: filePeter (~filePeter@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
1678 [23:56:37] *** Joins: ChmEarl (~chmearl@replaced-ip )
1679 [23:56:57] <isapgswell> pepper i will explain better:
1680 [23:57:03] <isapgswell> pepper: # / was on /dev/sda2 during
installation
1681 [23:57:03] <isapgswell>
UUID=e93bc85e-0083-47c8-a684-58e51027d6ec / ext4
errors=remount-ro,usrquota,grpquota 0 1
1682 [23:57:24] <isapgswell>
UUID=1f4c2de0-b77c-46aa-9ced-cb5fad4446ba /home ext4
defaults,usrquota,grpquota 0 2
1683 [23:57:40] <isapgswell> pqpper do not delete uuid unless will
break
1684 [23:57:50] <isapgswell> pepper do not delete uuid unless will
break
1685 [23:58:26] *** Quits: mtn (~mtn@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1686 [23:58:28] <Pepper> i dot
1687 [23:58:40] *** Quits: stree (~stree@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
1688 [23:58:58] <Pepper> isapgswell , can you just corrent i send
you dewbin paste
1689 [23:59:12] <Pepper> i will say you bg thanks
1690 [23:59:16] *** Joins: ttys000 (~ttys000@replaced-ip )
1691 [23:59:26] *** Quits: gelignite (~gelignite@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Stay safe!)
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