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27 [00:27:24] <Krennic> hmm
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32 [00:28:36] <rustbuckett> hello everyone! i'm having
trouble installing mariadb
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35 [00:30:18] <rustbuckett> The trouble isn't actually
installing it, it's what follows. It never has me set a root
password, yet when I try to connect to the server as root with empty
password, it fails. And running mysql_secure_install fails when it
asks for the root password.
36 [00:30:24] <rustbuckett> any ideas?
37 [00:31:15] <rustbuckett> I've tried purging
mariadb-server and mariadb-client and reinstalling them. The install
never prompts to set a root password.
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43 [00:36:25] <jmcnaught> rustbuckett: the Debian package
doesn't set a mariadb root password anymore. There's a
note about it in
/usr/share/doc/mariadb-<SOMETHING>/README.Debian (sorry
can't remember which package exactly)
44 [00:37:21] <jmcnaught> basically just connect to the database
as system user root to be mariadb root
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47 [00:38:38] <rustbuckett> jmcnaught: ah. okay.
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98 [01:15:15] <sam123> @debhelper hi
99 [01:15:49] <sam123> i need help with my linux
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103 [01:18:30] <mrjpaxton> Everybody needs help with Linux at
some point.
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128 [01:46:14] <mishehu> we've got some jessie servers
(they'll be upgraded after 10 is released), and this is driving
me nuts... they boot up with powersave as the cpufreq governor.
it's a server, and one that will be under heavy load. I just
want the governor to be set as performance, and not have to install
cpufrequtils or stuff like that. how do I force the thing at boot
time to use performance without having to iterate
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130 [01:46:20] <mishehu> on sysfs to set it manually or using
sysfsutils?
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171 [02:30:54] <karlpinc> mishehu: Would the kernel command line
cpufreq.off=1 choice do what you want? (I sure don't know.)
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173 [02:32:46] <mishehu> karlpinc: sounds like that would
probably be an option there to throw into grub. I'll test it
out as soon as I can reboot the system.
174 [02:33:14] <mishehu> I hope newer debians have opted for
ondemand at least... it's a bit more responsive than powersave.
175 [02:33:42] <karlpinc> mishehu: There's always rc.local.
:-|
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184 [02:49:27] <mishehu> karlpinc: edict from above me was
"no, no rc.local".
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188 [02:52:17] <Jazztronaut> QUESTION!
189 [02:52:28] <Jazztronaut> I am on Debian stable (updated.
Stretch.)
190 [02:52:46] <Jazztronaut> I would like to install a package
from the buster repository.
191 [02:52:51] <Jazztronaut> I don't see it in backports.
192 [02:53:03] <Jazztronaut> I don't want to upgrade to
testing, I want to keep stable.
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194 [02:53:22] <Jazztronaut> Is there a way I can use 1 package
from buster, when I'm on stretch?
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196 [02:53:31] <Jazztronaut> The package is purple-discord
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203 [02:56:44] <jmcnaught> Jazztronaut: you can't mix stable
and testing. You could try to backport the package yourself.
204 [02:56:51] <jmcnaught> judd: checkbackport purple-discord
205 [02:56:53] <judd> Backporting package purple-discord in
sid→stretch/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies:
Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 11).
206 [02:57:00] <jmcnaught> maybe not
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209 [02:59:21] <rant> ,v debhelper-compat
210 [02:59:22] <judd> No package named
'debhelper-compat' was found in amd64.
211 [02:59:39] <rant> @.@
212 [02:59:47] <rant> its not a package
213 [02:59:55] <rant> but its in stretch-backports
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215 [03:00:03] <rant> ,v debhelper
216 [03:00:04] <judd> Package: debhelper on amd64 -- jessie:
9.20150101+deb8u2; jessie-security: 9.20150101+deb8u2; stretch:
10.2.5; stretch-backports: 12.1.1~bpo9+1; buster: 12.1.1; sid:
12.1.1
217 [03:00:38] <rant> ,v purple-discord
218 [03:00:39] <judd> Package: purple-discord on amd64 -- buster:
0.9.2019.02.07.git.e5d9627-1; sid: 0.9.2019.02.07.git.e5d9627-1
219 [03:00:52] <rant> ,depends purple-discord
220 [03:00:54] <judd> No package named 'purple-discord'
was found in stretch/amd64.
221 [03:01:03] <rant> ,depends purple-discord buster
222 [03:01:04] <judd> Package purple-discord in buster/amd64 --
depends: libc6 (>= 2.14), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.31.8),
libjson-glib-1.0-0 (>= 0.12.0), libpurple0 (>= 2.6.0).
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224 [03:02:22] <rant> dpkg, tell Jazztronaut about ssb
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234 [03:08:32] <Jazztronaut> Maybe I have to build the package
from source
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238 [03:10:03] <rant> no
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245 [03:11:26] <rant> you have to put a deb-src line for buster,
a stretch-backports line, in your apt sources, then install
debhelper from backports then follow the rest of the ssb mantra i.e.
apt source purple-discord and apt -b source purple-discord then dpkg
-i purple-discord-blah.deb
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248 [03:12:08] <Jazztronaut> what does ssb stand for so I can
look up documentation on it?
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250 [03:12:16] <rant> !ssb
251 [03:12:16] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on
<debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for
sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable
debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude
install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b
source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change
compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions
newer than sid see <uupdate>.
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254 [03:12:37] <Jazztronaut> thanks, I will try that!
255 [03:12:56] <rant> ah yeah, I forgot the build-dep :P
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270 [03:25:41] <Jazztronaut> rant: what does SSB stand for?
I'd like to find a debian documentation page on this
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273 [03:27:26] <rant> simple sid backport
274 [03:27:42] <rant> the documentation is right there
275 [03:28:02] <rant> that factoid is all there is to it
276 [03:29:12] <Jazztronaut> Oh, sweet
277 [03:29:37] <rant> in this case you would be backporting from
buster cause its not in sid
278 [03:29:52] <rant> erm.. yeah it is
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287 [03:32:34] <Jazztronaut> !ssb
288 [03:32:34] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on
<debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for
sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable
debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude
install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b
source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change
compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions
newer than sid see <uupdate>.
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290 [03:32:43] <Jazztronaut> I reconnected so I need it again :P
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293 [03:33:11] <rant> Jazztronaut: aptitude is not required..
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296 [03:33:34] <rant> in fact I think I may change that cause
aptitude isn't installed by default
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300 [03:34:11] <rant> dpkg ssb =~ s/aptitude/apt/g
301 [03:34:11] <dpkg> that doesn't contain
'aptitude', rant
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305 [03:34:28] <rant> dpkg, literal ssb
306 [03:34:29] <dpkg> "ssb" is "<reply> see
simple sid backport"
307 [03:34:47] <rant> o.O
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311 [03:35:11] <rant> dpkg simple sid backport =~
s/aptitude/apt/g
312 [03:35:11] <dpkg> rant: OK
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315 [03:35:31] <rant> dpkg simple sid backport =~ s/apt-get/apt/g
316 [03:35:32] <dpkg> rant: OK
317 [03:35:35] <rant> !ssb
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319 [03:35:36] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on
<debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for
sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable
debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) apt update; apt install
build-essential; apt build-dep packagename; apt -b source
packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation
options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid
see <uupdate>.
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325 [03:37:02] <rant> idk who made that use aptitude and
apt-get.. kinda silly..
326 [03:37:17] <rant> kinda stuff that will confuse people
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338 [03:42:31] <ectospasm> rant: those commands are the old way
339 [03:42:38] <ectospasm> pre-stretch
340 [03:42:54] <rant> they were never the way.. I been here and
using debian over 15 years
341 [03:43:05] <rant> aptitude was never required
342 [03:43:23] <ectospasm> Well, `apt` is fairly new, compared to
apt-get and aptitude.
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344 [03:43:40] <ectospasm> I remember some things being cleaner
with aptitude, before the command `apt` came along.
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346 [03:44:07] <rant> aptitude does have additional features like
"why" advanced searching, interactive mode..etc
347 [03:44:30] *** Quits: tryte (~tryte@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
348 [03:44:30] <rant> but its also more cumbersome, it checks the
db before and after each action, its not installed by default..etc
349 [03:44:31] <Jazztronaut> I got:
350 [03:44:31] <Jazztronaut> dpkg-buildpackage: info: binary-only
upload (no source included)
351 [03:44:34] <Jazztronaut> lol
352 [03:44:44] <Jazztronaut> "W: Download is performed
unsandboxed as root as file
'purple-discord_0.9.2019.02.07.git.e5d9627-1.dsc'
couldn't be accessed by user '_apt'. -
pkgAcquire::Run (13: Permission denied)"
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354 [03:45:07] <rant> yes you dont need to run those commands as
root
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356 [03:45:17] <Jazztronaut> ah
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358 [03:45:32] <rant> fetching source and building packages
doesn't require root
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360 [03:45:48] <rant> only installing the resulting debs requires
root
361 [03:46:32] <rant> as a general rule, you should never build
anything as a root / admin user.. it could be a security risk a
small mistake in a makefile could be very destructive
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366 [03:51:16] <Jazztronaut> apt build-dep purple-discord
367 [03:51:16] <Jazztronaut> E: Could not open lock file
/var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (13: Permission denied)
368 [03:51:16] <Jazztronaut> E: Unable to lock the administration
directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root?
369 [03:51:20] <Jazztronaut> That's what I got.
370 [03:51:28] <Jazztronaut> It requires root for that step?
371 [03:53:36] <jmcnaught> yes, "apt build-dep
…" installs packages
372 [03:53:38] *** Quits: domovoy (~domovoy@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
373 [03:53:44] <__m4ch1n3__> build-dep installs packages that are
build dependencie for given package, installing packages on system
ofcourse needs root
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375 [03:54:07] <Jazztronaut> Sweet! It worked, thanks so much
376 [03:54:37] <__m4ch1n3__> you only need that when you want
build something from source
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378 [03:56:15] <__m4ch1n3__> you would do that before compiling
purple-discord from source
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394 [04:01:34] <Okee> Does sudo come installed by default in
Debian? I am on a laptop that can't find it, and find this
strange. I have istalled Debian on a number of other laptops and
don't recall having this problem before.
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397 [04:02:08] <Jazztronaut> It didn't come when I installed
debian. What I did is:
398 [04:03:02] <rant> Okee: only if you do not choose a root
password otherwise its optional
399 [04:03:12] <rant> dpkg, simple sid backport =~ s/3) apt
update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep packagename; apt
-b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs./foobar/
400 [04:03:12] <dpkg> OK, rant
401 [04:03:16] <rant> dpkg, simple sid backport =~ s/foobar/[AS
ROOT] do 3) apt update; apt install build-essential; apt build-dep
packagename [AS USER] do 4) apt -b source packagename [AS ROOT] 5)
dpkg -i packagename-version.deb/
402 [04:03:17] <dpkg> that's too long, rant
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404 [04:03:55] <themill> yeah, let's not try breaking things
405 [04:03:58] <Jazztronaut> su; apt install sudo; add the user
to the group "sudo" (adduser <user> sudo)
406 [04:04:09] <Okee> rant> I installed a root password as a
user password. For this reason sudo should be working, but it
isn't.
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409 [04:04:19] <rant> themill: its fixed :P
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412 [04:04:45] <themill> clear as mud :(
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414 [04:05:00] <Okee> rant> How do Iinstll sudo?
415 [04:05:02] <rant> themill: yeah well I was looking at that..
but idk about using sudo
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417 [04:05:13] <rant> Okee: apt install sudo
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419 [04:05:19] <rant> for this reason ^
420 [04:05:21] <rant> heh
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425 [04:05:53] <themill> I think if someone is going to try
making a backport, they should be comfortable with what operations
need elevated provisions
426 [04:06:02] <Jazztronaut> You have to log in and out after
adding your user to group "sudo" for it to work
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429 [04:06:12] <Jazztronaut> Okee:
replaced-url
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432 [04:08:04] <rant> themill: I just removed all the parts in []
and left the one as a seperate step
433 [04:08:23] <rant> themill: so when someone mentions the
warning we can just say step 4 doesnt require root :P
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436 [04:11:02] <rant> Jazztronaut: thats one way of doing it
437 [04:11:38] <rant> Jazztronaut: using su - user is another..
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439 [04:12:03] <rant> and iirc there were commands out there to
refresh group memberships that do basically the same thing
440 [04:13:10] <__m4ch1n3__> and remember changes to groups take
first effect after you logged out
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443 [04:14:16] <rant> yes well telling su to make a login shell
works to temporarily avoid logging out of your session
444 [04:15:25] <rant> I really dont care much for sudo especially
using it in any documentation when its not installed/configured by
default.. really I think if we're not going to ship sudo
standard we need some base package to place a link from sudo to su
or something
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446 [04:16:13] <rant> however when I did use it back in the day I
was rather fond of the sudo -v and sudo -k lets you verify then use
it many times without a password and use the -k to remove the
credential
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449 [04:17:50] * rant boggles
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453 [04:19:18] <rant> appears I have encountered a bug in my
graphics.. I got this T440 with the laptop display, a monitor on
vga, and a tv on mindp->hdmi and chromium showing the
release-critical bugs page is still showing on my vga monitor even
though no chromium is running
454 [04:19:44] <rant> as I figured, unplugging and plugging it
back in resolved it, but that was rather odd
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489 [05:04:30] <laptop> help
490 [05:04:34] <laptop> I have linx kernel 5
491 [05:04:45] <laptop> and it does not work with nvidia drivers
propietary
492 [05:05:06] <aedinius> uh
493 [05:05:10] <aedinius> which version of nvidia?
494 [05:05:17] <aedinius> oh wrong channel
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496 [05:05:35] <aedinius> well, maybe I can.
497 [05:05:44] <aedinius> What version of nvidia? the latest in
the repos?
498 [05:05:55] <nanovirus> does nvidia develop driver for linux ?
499 [05:06:32] <aedinius> Yes, for a while now. It's not
in-tree though, so kinda wonky.
500 [05:07:15] <aedinius> oh, also what version of debian?
501 [05:07:28] <Hooloovoo> yeah, nvidia does produce a driver.
unfortunately, they don't allow open-source developers access
to any hardware specs or information
502 [05:07:54] <laptop> y propietary legacy driver latest version
503 [05:08:02] <laptop> it works fine with 4.19
504 [05:08:15] <aedinius> 390.87-8~deb9u1 ?
505 [05:08:20] <Hooloovoo> so unless they bless your kernel, or
your kernel is close to one they bless or you use nouveau, you
won't get it working
506 [05:08:30] <laptop> ever
507 [05:08:41] <nanovirus> hmm i see
508 [05:08:49] <laptop> what if i role my own kernel
509 [05:08:51] <laptop> can
510 [05:09:02] <laptop> i put together a kernel 5 myself and add
nvidia
511 [05:09:14] <aedinius> My only nvidia is for a different
distro, it's nvidia390 and kernel 5.0... something
512 [05:09:25] <laptop> which one
513 [05:09:26] <Hooloovoo> maybe?
514 [05:09:34] <aedinius> laptop: that system is Void
515 [05:09:52] <aedinius> But assuming debian stable, nvidia390
should work with kernel 5.x
516 [05:09:54] <aedinius> 5.0.x
517 [05:09:57] *** Quits: __m4ch1n3__ (~m4ch1n3@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
518 [05:10:21] <aedinius> laptop: stable, testing, sid? what
version of debian are you on?
519 [05:10:48] <laptop> stable
520 [05:10:56] <aedinius> okay. is that on 5.x?
521 [05:11:08] <aedinius> 5.x seems new for stable
522 [05:11:15] <laptop> yes
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524 [05:14:11] <donst> hello big channel, do you think
sheepshaver could run debian?
525 [05:14:39] *** Quits: nanovirus (~nanovirus@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
526 [05:14:48] <donst> the thing is sheepshaver is available for
ios and I wonder who's faster
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528 [05:15:02] <donst> powerpc sheepshaver emulation vs bochs x86
529 [05:15:54] <aedinius> laptop: how'd you get 5.0?
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531 [05:16:08] <laptop> i downloaded it
532 [05:16:13] <laptop> using antix
533 [05:16:15] *** Quits: tatootian__ (~tatootian@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
534 [05:16:59] <jmcnaught> !antix
535 [05:16:59] <dpkg> antiX is a fast, lightweight and easy to
install systemd-free linux live CD distribution based on Debian
Stable for Intel-AMD x86 compatible systems (
replaced-url
536 [05:17:24] <aedinius> jmcnaught and the bot got to it before
me
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538 [05:18:21] <jmcnaught> laptop: my advice would be to stick
with the kernel that works if there's nothing wrong with it,
linux 5 isn't anything special it's just an arbitrary
version number
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541 [05:19:08] <aedinius> Either pick a stable distro and stick
with it (debian, fedora, etc) or choose something cutting edge and
deal with that (arch, void, etc)
542 [05:19:25] <aedinius> Don't try to mix and stuff.
543 [05:19:31] *** Joins: llucenic (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip )
544 [05:19:49] <aedinius> And ask for support in the channel or
wherever most supported for support for that.
545 [05:20:18] <laptop> ok thanks
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547 [05:20:33] <laptop> i thought linux 5 had the new google
encryption for slow computeres
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550 [05:21:20] <jmcnaught> maybe it does, but will you notice the
difference?
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556 [05:26:28] <laptop> i have amd athlon x2 1.7 ghz 2 gb ram and
nvidia 7150/630n card
557 [05:26:52] <laptop> xfce is too slow for this thing
558 [05:26:59] <laptop> it is lxde or iceweasel
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561 [05:27:07] <laptop> or trinity for me
562 [05:27:39] <aedinius> So you'd really only notice it if
things were using it, and I doubt things will use it
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565 [05:28:18] <laptop> okay so luks would be good enough
566 [05:28:28] <laptop> compared wtih adantium
567 [05:28:33] <aedinius> Which encryption were you referring to?
I remember in 4.17 there was the NSA sponsored encryption, but it
was dropped in 4.20
568 [05:28:42] <laptop> google adamantium
569 [05:28:58] <laptop> google adiantum
570 [05:29:10] <laptop>
replaced-url
571 [05:30:10] <aedinius> lscpu | grep --color=always aes
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573 [05:30:42] <aedinius> you might have hardware aes accel
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576 [05:32:36] <laptop> dont think so I checked
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584 [05:42:08] <Tom-_> copying and pasting with gpm stopped
working in vim jessie -> stretch
585 [05:42:31] <Tom-_> can someone please tell me how to get it
working again
586 [05:43:26] <Tom-_> okay i searched and found
replaced-url
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609 [06:06:02] <rant> I fell asleep just thinking about learning
to do something in blender
610 [06:06:46] * rant looks around like the koolaid man who just
crashed through the wrong wall
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752 [08:35:15] <OnceMe> I have an issue with crontabs, I'm
getting Path '/tmp/crontab.BMjmuL' is not accessible (in
nano editor) and when I exit it, I get no crontab for onceme - using
an empty one Temporary crontab no longer owned by you.Error while
editing crontab. What do you I do?
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903 [09:40:06] <bopappy> y0, the modern debian installer sucks.
Trying to open a terminal with alt+fx , getting terminal only to
find busybox not able to install wifi firmware by cli. back in the
90s I mounted a vfat partition and installed the entire debian
distro from that. Today, on one hand there is slackware and openbsd
then there is fedora/opensuse
904 [09:40:37] <bopappy> debian sits in between the only thing it
does right is try to fill your hard disk with random data before
encrypting it
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931 [09:54:27] <rant> dpkg, firmware images
932 [09:54:27] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD
installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are
available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See
replaced-url
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984 [10:29:27] <krion> hey !
985 [10:29:47] <krion> it's me again with my damn boring
pinning/repository stuff related problem...
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987 [10:30:01] <krion> jelly: how you doing with this sunny
friday !?
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991 [10:31:30] <Fox> might not be sunny everywhere in the world
:)
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1041 [11:19:48] <paidjemz> hello
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1044 [11:20:07] <paidjemz> can someone reply?
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1047 [11:20:32] <humpled> it's best to just go ahead and ask
your question paidjemz
1048 [11:21:17] <humpled> assuming you've already framed it
succintly
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1050 [11:21:37] <krion> paidjemz: hello
1051 [11:21:41] <krion> !ask
1052 [11:21:42] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For
example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian
version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I
expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if
anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all
volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get
an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org.
See <smart questions><errors>.
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1058 [11:22:58] <__m4ch1n3__> is there a way to make history
command not enumerate lines?
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1064 [11:26:36] <colo-work> __m4ch1n3__, while read -r _ line; do
printf '%s\n' "$line"; done < <(history)
1065 [11:26:50] <colo-work> (this might break with multi-line
history entries, if they exist?)
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1072 [11:29:30] <__m4ch1n3__> ahhh just relized i could simply
"cat $HOME/.bash_history" :D
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1074 [11:31:10] <colo-work> that's not necessarily the same
state as what `history` yields though
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1078 [11:33:41] <EdePopede> and even less with alternative history
(pst, $HISTFILE)
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1084 [11:34:39] <__m4ch1n3__> aoh yes
1085 [11:34:43] <__m4ch1n3__> *ah
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1109 [11:48:24] <FriedEggBanjo> clear
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1114 [11:50:00] <hizb> hi
1115 [11:50:12] <hizb> هلا
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1123 [11:52:02] <hizb> اØد يرد
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1141 [11:57:04] <AnononA> for sid upgrade whats best option
netinstaller or sourcelist safe upgrade
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1150 [12:05:33] <__m4ch1n3__> there is an sid install media?
1151 [12:05:59] <__m4ch1n3__> thought sid upgrades are always
through apt
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1170 [12:14:31] <rant> yes sid upgrades via apt
1171 [12:14:45] <rant> directly from an official mirror
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1175 [12:17:02] <AnononA> if i just wanted to upgrade the nvidia
driver from sid repo would that work
1176 [12:17:11] <AnononA> my graphics card is supported for all
drivers
1177 [12:18:09] <rant> AnononA: sid is not supported here, but
generally speaking upgrade of a single package can be done just by
apt install package
1178 [12:18:44] <AnononA> yes but latest driver isnt within
stretch
1179 [12:18:49] <AnononA> repos
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1181 [12:18:58] <rant> the install directive first looks to see if
something is installed, if so, checks to see if an update is
available and if so updates it, and if not, it checks to see if its
auto installed and sets it to manual if it is
1182 [12:19:07] <rant> ,v nvidia-driver
1183 [12:19:08] <judd> Package: nvidia-driver on amd64 --
jessie/non-free: 340.106-1; stretch/non-free: 390.87-8~deb9u1;
stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 390.116-1; buster/non-free:
410.104-3; sid/non-free: 418.56-2
1184 [12:19:30] <rant> AnononA: do you actually have an issue that
requires the newer driver?
1185 [12:20:03] <AnononA> couple of games arent at there best and
give waring saying game may not work properly
1186 [12:20:14] <AnononA> plus later version have better
performance fixes
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1192 [12:21:12] <rant> AnononA: if you are going to want to stay
on the bleeding edge, while this is typically not advisable here,
you may just be better off maintaining the driver upgrades yourself
directly from nvidia
1193 [12:21:42] <rant> because in reality thats likely to cause
less problems than trying to use a sid non-free dkms driver in
stable
1194 [12:22:22] <rant> graphics drivers are more troublesome in
this regard because they have many components they are not only
kernel modules
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1197 [12:23:05] <rant> and in debian they are not a single
package, but several packages.. all which have potential to cause
breakage or result in frankendebian
1198 [12:23:34] <rant> either way if you can't use the stable
driver, you are putting yourself in an unsupportable state
1199 [12:23:46] <AnononA> ok so get the .run from nvidia then
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1201 [12:24:33] <AnononA> i had that installed eirlier this week
then couldnt get steam to work but now steam is installed if i purge
the nvidia drivers then start with latest from nvidia will be easier
to maintain
1202 [12:24:41] <rant> AnononA: are you of the necessary skill to
fix graphics issues on your own?
1203 [12:24:48] <AnononA> is that what your saying
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1205 [12:25:18] <AnononA> some yes but on this level i would need
resaerch and maybe bit of help
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1207 [12:25:31] <rant> AnononA: if you are aware of the risks,
"void of warranty" kinda stuff, and really want to stay on
the bleeding edge with this driver, then yes, I believe directly
from nvidia is the safest option
1208 [12:25:38] <AnononA> im getting alot more envolved with
debian these days
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1211 [12:26:03] <rant> you will need to download and install the
updates yourself regularly, you will need to be able to fix your
system if it breaks.. cause we can't support it..etc
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1214 [12:26:34] <AnononA> i understand and thanks for advice i
really appreciate it
1215 [12:26:46] <rant> AnononA: other options would be either
running sid, which also would require more advanced knowledge..
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1218 [12:27:45] <AnononA> worse comes to worse id do a format if
everything went really bad. back to stable but i want to get the
most out of my card with debian
1219 [12:28:03] <AnononA> more i go through the more i learn
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1221 [12:28:34] <AnononA> if i run into problems i cant solve
myself would you care if i dropped back in and shot you couple of
questions
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1224 [12:28:48] <rant> AnononA: you could also try a dual boot
with sid and stable so you could have a fallback
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1227 [12:29:11] <AnononA> im dual boot now windows 10 debian 9.8
stretch
1228 [12:29:17] <AnononA> so triboot
1229 [12:29:21] <AnononA> hmmm
1230 [12:29:40] <AnononA> is purge the best option to remove
drivers
1231 [12:29:46] <rant> yes well you could probably create two /
and one /home and use same /home on both
1232 [12:29:49] <AnononA> coz when i did the drivers i had to have
the correct headers
1233 [12:29:59] <AnononA> never thought of that
1234 [12:30:06] <__m4ch1n3__> what are you talking about? drivers
are part of kernel
1235 [12:30:12] <rant> apt --purge remove *nvidia*
1236 [12:30:14] <__m4ch1n3__> except nvida
1237 [12:30:19] <AnononA> kernal headers
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1239 [12:30:37] <rant> graphics drivers are kernel, xorg,
dri/drm/glx etc they have many parts
1240 [12:30:46] <rant> sometimes even firmware too
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1244 [12:32:04] <__m4ch1n3__> purge just removes config files
additionally
1245 [12:32:06] <rant> __m4ch1n3__: its also not really safe in
any regard to jump to that conclusion cause there are things like
fuse and such
1246 [12:32:18] <AnononA> what i followed with success was this
replaced-url
1247 [12:32:45] <rant> __m4ch1n3__: which you want to do in this
case, cause nvidia components will sometimes have such things like x
configs and such
1248 [12:32:46] <AnononA> has diffrent headerss per version
1249 [12:33:52] <AnononA> wont they get generated with the run
file anyway
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1251 [12:33:59] <AnononA> xconfig
1252 [12:34:04] <__m4ch1n3__> I dont want that, use own custom
xorg.conf :3
1253 [12:34:26] <AnononA> whats wrong with default
1254 [12:34:27] <AnononA> ?
1255 [12:34:36] <__m4ch1n3__> doesnt work with PRIME
synchronization
1256 [12:34:42] <rant> yes, there is nvidia-xconfig or such iirc..
but w/e the problem with this stuff is that the upstream and debian
stuff work differently
1257 [12:35:04] <rant> by default debian doesn't configure X,
it lets it auto-detect
1258 [12:35:17] <rant> we haven't used an x config in a long
time
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1260 [12:35:48] <AnononA> .run method isnt compatible with debian
packages
1261 [12:35:53] <AnononA> is that what you mean
1262 [12:36:08] <rant> its a black box for the most part
1263 [12:36:38] <AnononA> ok what drivers do you run
1264 [12:36:43] <AnononA> are you nvidia
1265 [12:36:53] <rant> no, I have a 4th gen Core i5
1266 [12:37:02] <AnononA> ahh ok
1267 [12:37:07] <rant> all my drivers are built i
1268 [12:37:26] *** Joins: pauline (~pauline@replaced-ip )
1269 [12:37:32] <AnononA> is there packages from nvidia driver
package that steam needs
1270 [12:37:37] <rant> even with the upstream .run you still are
required to keep the appropriate kernel-headers package for your
kernel installed as well as build-essential
1271 [12:37:39] *** Quits: mase-tech (~mase-tech@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1272 [12:37:50] <rant> because the upstream driver will need to
build kernel modules
1273 [12:37:52] <__m4ch1n3__> yes, thats another reson, my
xorg.conf is minimal required config for prime synchronization i
brutforced
1274 [12:38:20] *** Joins: jubo2 (~juboxi@replaced-ip )
1275 [12:38:31] <AnononA> could you simplify that last bit for me
1276 [12:38:36] <__m4ch1n3__> tried to let Xorg autoconfig as much
as possible
1277 [12:38:51] <AnononA> gotcha
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1279 [12:39:04] *** Joins: dreamer (~henk@replaced-ip )
1280 [12:39:05] <rant> AnononA: apt install build-essential
kernel-headers-amd64
1281 [12:39:09] <__m4ch1n3__> and have only the minimal settings
that a recommented by PRIME synchronization
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1283 [12:39:58] *** Quits: achen_ (~thefatma@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
1284 [12:40:19] <__m4ch1n3__>
replaced-url
1285 [12:40:41] <rant> I wouldnt touch that optimus shit
1286 [12:40:50] <__m4ch1n3__> mine is way shorter then that
1287 [12:40:59] <rant> idk why you're even bringing it up..
there was no mention of that I saw
1288 [12:41:20] <rant> vast majority of people with nvidia
don't have optimus
1289 [12:42:16] <__m4ch1n3__> yeah PRIME synchronization is
turning intel gpu off without screentearing, its actually about
turning optimus device into a nvidia only
1290 [12:42:22] <AnononA> i have not got optimus anyway
1291 [12:42:57] *** Quits: silentjet (~jet@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1292 [12:42:58] <__m4ch1n3__> and it took 8 years from optimus
devices to xserver that can revert that shit
1293 [12:43:12] <__m4ch1n3__> *reverse
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1295 [12:43:28] *** Joins: qqz (~elm@replaced-ip )
1296 [12:43:40] <qqz> I have an EEE PC with 4GB flash hard disk
1297 [12:43:51] <AnononA> so when editing nvidia x server setting
gui options is that all editing xorg
1298 [12:43:52] *** Quits: nullbyte_ (~nullbyte@replaced-ip ) (Quit: closed.)
1299 [12:44:02] <qqz> after installing the base system and LXDE I
have 99% of my hard disk used
1300 [12:44:08] <qqz> what can I do?
1301 [12:44:09] <rant> lenovo had made a laptop with dual cpus..
x86 and arm for similar purposes of saving power on basic computing
1302 [12:44:24] <rant> qqz: get a bigger disk, install less stuff
1303 [12:44:37] <rant> !de usage
1304 [12:44:37] <dpkg> i guess de usage is The HDD/RAM usages of
the 7 Stretch DE on amd64 VirtualBoxes with 1GB RAM / 32GB HDD are
as follows as reported with only their terminals running df -Th and
free -h: GNOME 4.2G 726M, KDE 4.1G 604M, Cinnamon 3.7G 482M, MATE
3.1G 215M, LXQt 3.1G 184M, LXDE 3.0G 180M, XFCE 2.9G 226M
1305 [12:44:53] <qqz> rant: no that is impossible
1306 [12:45:03] <qqz> with Xandros there was plenty of space left
1307 [12:45:07] <rant> qqz: you seriously underestimate
possibilities
1308 [12:45:14] <__m4ch1n3__>
replaced-url
1309 [12:45:24] <AnononA> thanks for help guys ill do abit more
reading ive noted some of the convo for resource
1310 [12:45:24] <qqz> isn´t there some software that I can
uninstall
1311 [12:45:34] <qqz> or would you recommend me another
distribution?
1312 [12:45:37] <__m4ch1n3__> thats the most minimal config i
could figure out to make PRIME synchronization work
1313 [12:45:55] <rant> qqz: as you can see from that factoid I
made above, LXDE is 3.0GB when installed from the installer. You
prob also have swap or such
1314 [12:46:23] <qqz> no I have no swap
1315 [12:46:25] <rant> __m4ch1n3__: are you high?
1316 [12:46:29] <qqz> so uninstall LXDE then
1317 [12:46:34] <qqz> is XFCE smaller?
1318 [12:46:35] <__m4ch1n3__> lol why?
1319 [12:46:40] <qqz> or is there an alternative?
1320 [12:46:41] <rant> qqz: marginally..
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1323 [12:46:53] <rant> qqz: you can piece together your own system
with what you feel you need
1324 [12:47:13] <rant> __m4ch1n3__: cause you're the ONLY one
talking about optimus/prime.. nobody else mentioned it :P
1325 [12:47:21] <qqz> rant: how to do that?
1326 [12:47:37] <rant> qqz: I take it you're not very
experienced with linux?
1327 [12:47:53] <qqz> what software is not absolutely necessary to
boot the X-Server and show a menu
1328 [12:48:00] <qqz> and a console
1329 [12:48:03] <qqz> I do not need more
1330 [12:48:09] <qqz> perhaps use twm or so?
1331 [12:48:35] <rant> qqz: I recommend you install again with
desktop system unselected.. in fact don't install anything from
the tasksel but "standard system utilities"
1332 [12:48:49] <rant> qqz: then login on the console and issue an
apt install command for what you want
1333 [12:48:50] <qqz> ok good; that I can do
1334 [12:49:04] <qqz> what would be a tiny shell with menu?
1335 [12:49:06] *** Quits: Elon_Satoshi (~elonsatos@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1336 [12:49:12] <qqz> or a good window manager?
1337 [12:49:17] *** Quits: lexiyntax (~dmarkle@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1338 [12:49:18] <rant> qqz: something like apt install lightdm
xorg-core tint2 openbox
1339 [12:49:30] <rant> idk really.. what your preference would be
1340 [12:49:54] <rant> tint2 is a really lightweight panel, iirc
it doesnt have a menu but the wm will likely have one depending on
which one you choose
1341 [12:50:15] <rant> I dont recall of the *box which is smallest
fluxbox, openbox,blackbox
1342 [12:50:32] <rant> there is also that matchbox or w/e
1343 [12:50:39] *** Joins: lexiyntax (~dmarkle@replaced-ip )
1344 [12:50:39] <rant> ,i matchbox
1345 [12:50:40] <judd> Package matchbox (embedded, optional) in
stretch/amd64: base X environment for resource-limited systems.
Version: 1:5; Size: 2.9k; Installed: 27k
1346 [12:51:18] <humpled> if you've just installed and
upgraded, i think there might be a lot of archived packages which
you could throw out
1347 [12:51:49] <rant> qqz:
replaced-url
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1349 [12:52:09] *** Parts: friendlyGoat (~jonah@replaced-ip ) ()
1350 [12:52:28] <rant> qqz: yes you could also see if "apt
clean" frees up any space
1351 [12:52:44] <rant> but for the most part you need a smaller
system than what you got for 4gb total disk space
1352 [12:53:09] <humpled> after a few years of use my root
partition with xfce is 5.7G
1353 [12:53:55] <rant> qqz: for a fairly complete
desktop-environment feel you probably wont find anything smaller
than matchbox
1354 [12:54:03] <rant> but that may be a tad overkill
1355 [12:54:16] *** Quits: BCMM (~BCMM@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1356 [12:54:24] *** Joins: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip )
1357 [12:54:34] <qqz> matchbox is larger and more feature rich
than openbox?
1358 [12:54:41] *** Joins: HarveyPwca (~HarveyPwc@replaced-ip )
1359 [12:54:48] *** Joins: lankanmon (~LKNnet@replaced-ip )
1360 [12:55:11] <rant> well matchbox tries to be more like a full
de, where openbox is just a wm
1361 [12:56:24] <rant> qqz: I'm installing with matchbox into
a vm with 4gb disk right now to see
1362 [12:56:24] <qqz> how to run apt-clean?
1363 [12:56:33] <rant> qqz: just type apt clean as root
1364 [12:56:42] <rant> it removes any downloaded/cached packages
1365 [12:56:50] *** Quits: AnononA (AnononA@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1366 [12:57:47] *** Joins: buttros_ (~buttros_@replaced-ip )
1367 [12:58:35] <qqz> does perhaps the package cache pollute the
disk space?
1368 [12:59:27] <qqz> what about /var/cache/apt?
1369 [12:59:55] <buttros_> Hello everyone! Does this channel
provide support for Kali Linux?
1370 [13:00:03] <rant> qqz: thats what it cleans
1371 [13:00:13] <rant> buttros_: no it provides support for debian
stable
1372 [13:00:16] <rant> !kali
1373 [13:00:17] <dpkg> Kali Linux (replaced-url
1374 [13:00:42] <buttros_> OK Thanks!
1375 [13:00:50] <rant> I hit a snag on setting up the VM, for some
reason my virtualbox is only showing 32bit right now.. ugh..
1376 [13:01:49] * rant uses the 32bit installer for now
1377 [13:01:49] *** Joins: fedorafan (~fedorafan@replaced-ip )
1378 [13:02:17] <rant> I never seen it do that before.. it is only
emulating 32bit for some odd reason
1379 [13:02:28] <rant> doesnt even show any 64bit OS as options
1380 [13:03:03] * rant reboots to check bios for virt options turned off
:P
1381 [13:03:39] *** Joins: linuxson (~linuxson@replaced-ip )
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1383 [13:04:43] <ov3rmind> hello great guys, thanks a lot for ever
help me
1384 [13:04:55] *** Joins: linuxson (~linuxson@replaced-ip )
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1386 [13:05:45] *** Joins: jack (~jack@replaced-ip )
1387 [13:05:48] <ov3rmind> it's a nice day, a good time here
to say good morning!
1388 [13:05:51] *** Joins: dpkg (~dpkg@replaced-ip )
1389 [13:05:59] <rant> yep, virt was disabled.. I switched from an
x240 to a t440 not long ago and they look so similiar and I took the
ssd from there so I think I'm on same machine.. heh.. guess I
never enabled virt on this machine
1390 [13:06:07] *** jack is now known as Guest6026
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1392 [13:06:12] *** Quits: tyranny12 (~blarg@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1393 [13:06:36] <linuxson> hey guys, need some help detecting and
setting up the wifi adapter on my Mecer MyLife Z140C+ laptop.
Installation is not detecting the hardware, and I cant find any
references online to what chipset it is
1394 [13:07:12] *** Quits: Qiz (~Qizzy@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1395 [13:07:15] <rant> linuxson: if you are trying to install
debian over wifi you should be using the special firmware installer
image
1396 [13:07:22] <rant> !firmware installer
1397 [13:07:22] <dpkg> Debian-Installer is able to load additional
<firmware>, by including it within installation media or
supplying on removable media (e.g. USB stick, floppy). See
replaced-url
1398 [13:07:26] *** Quits: pingfloyd (~pingfloyd@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)
1399 [13:07:28] <rant> !firmware images
1400 [13:07:28] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD
installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are
available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See
replaced-url
1401 [13:08:04] <Guest6026> hello
1402 [13:08:09] <linuxson> Nope, debian is already installed, just
trying to get my wifi working. Currently using a USB RJ45 adapter
1403 [13:08:09] <Guest6026> hello
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1406 [13:08:47] *** Quits: pauline (~pauline@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1407 [13:08:49] <rant> linuxson: then enable non-free repos and
install firmware-linux-nonfree or check lspci -nn and tell us which
wifi adapter it is
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1413 [13:10:15] <linuxson> rant, cool, will tryyour first
suggestion first, cause lspci is not picking it up either
1414 [13:10:33] <linuxson> rant, used the netinstall media as it
was a smaller download at first
1415 [13:10:37] <rant> qqz: defaults are also a 5% reserve for
filesystem, this can be set in partitioner during install or later
with tune2fs
1416 [13:10:45] <rant> linuxson: check lsusb too
1417 [13:10:59] <rant> linuxson: if one of these dont see it,
firmware wont help
1418 [13:11:15] <rant> linuxson: paste output of lspci -nn; lsusb
on paste.debian.net
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1421 [13:12:13] <rant> qqz: 5% of 4gb is only like 200MB though
you'd have unavailable
1422 [13:12:47] <rant> and really with that little disk space you
probably would be better off keeping a reserve
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1425 [13:15:02] <qqz> ok; good then, will reinstall in the
afternoon
1426 [13:15:34] <rant> qqz: I'm setting up some vm to play
around and see what works
1427 [13:15:54] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip ) ()
1428 [13:15:56] *** Quits: linuxson (~linuxson@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1429 [13:16:27] <qqz> rant: thanks a lot; I will come online again
then
1430 [13:16:30] <rant> qqz: gonna clone this base install I just
did and see what file size is like with and without the
"standard system utilities"
1431 [13:16:52] *** Joins: AnononA (~AnononA@replaced-ip )
1432 [13:17:17] <AnononA> Hey guys so i uninstalled nvidia-driver
evan purged and when ever i restart driver is still there and cant
use .run
1433 [13:17:21] *** Joins: linuxson (~linuxson@replaced-ip )
1434 [13:17:27] <linuxson> rant,
replaced-url
1435 [13:17:42] <qqz> could I install without standard system
utilities as well?
1436 [13:17:59] <rant> qqz: with just the standard system
utilities the install is only 864M for amd64
1437 [13:17:59] <AnononA> says nvidia driver still there now when
i go to try uninstall again it says its already been removed
1438 [13:18:07] <rant> qqz: standard system utils are things like
less and such..
1439 [13:18:13] *** Quits: yokisuci (~yokisuci@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1440 [13:18:20] <rant> qqz: I can get you a list and size
difference.. just need a few moments
1441 [13:18:55] *** Quits: linuxson (~linuxson@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1442 [13:19:36] *** Joins: Elon_Satoshi (~elonsatos@replaced-ip )
1443 [13:19:41] <rant> qqz: after removing the "laptop"
task and doing apt clean I'm down to 836M
1444 [13:19:59] <qqz> how to remove the laptop task?
1445 [13:20:11] <rant> I just ran tasksel from the terminal after
install
1446 [13:20:14] <qqz> I wanna have upower and power and battery
management though?
1447 [13:20:17] <rant> removes stuff like bluetooth packages and
such
1448 [13:20:29] <rant> yeah and probably that too..
1449 [13:20:39] <rant> lemme get into the apt logs here..
1450 [13:21:08] <qqz> ahh it is displayed by tasksel
1451 [13:21:19] <rant> LtL: you're missing the lsusb output
1452 [13:21:26] *** Joins: linuxson (~linuxson@replaced-ip )
1453 [13:21:35] <rant> linuxson: ^
1454 [13:21:42] <linuxson> rant,
replaced-url
1455 [13:21:53] <linuxson> Sorry, got disconnected there for a
second
1456 [13:22:23] <linuxson> rant, I missed what you are refering
to, could you please type again?
1457 [13:22:33] *** Joins: yokisuci (~yokisuci@replaced-ip )
1458 [13:22:38] <rant> linuxson: that was it.. what you just
pasted
1459 [13:22:53] <rant> linuxson: see on this machine even your
ethernet is on USB not PCI
1460 [13:23:14] <humpled> another option for low disk space could
be a live distro with syslinux and persistence
1461 [13:23:16] <linuxson> rant, like I said,its a USB network
adaptor
1462 [13:23:44] <linuxson> rant, had to switch to a wired
connection because my wireless doesnt work
1463 [13:23:48] <humpled> i had one with openbox for quite a while
on a laptop with no hard drive, it's surprisingly stable,
1464 [13:24:15] *** Quits: AnononA (~AnononA@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1465 [13:24:29] <qqz> rant: thanks for the additional hints; I
will shut down in a minute except if you have yet untold suggestions
1466 [13:24:33] <linuxson> rant, Ive already set management to
true in my conf file, and restarted the network manager, still no
luck
1467 [13:24:35] <rant> linuxson: yeah the kernel isnt seeing any
wifi, if its built in it could be disabled by the bios
1468 [13:24:55] <rant> linuxson: I'd check bios and full
output of journalctl or dmesg
1469 [13:25:00] *** Joins: Python1320 (Python1320@replaced-ip )
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1472 [13:25:17] <linuxson> rant, Not so sure if its disabled in
bios, because it was working just fine before I flashed Debian
(coming from Manjaro)
1473 [13:26:25] <rant> qqz: matchbox says its only gonna be 84M of
additional space
1474 [13:26:45] <rant> qqz: might also want something like lightdm
for graphical login idk if matchbox supplies a DM
1475 [13:27:04] *** Quits: Darcidride (~Darcidrid@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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1477 [13:27:34] <ceptor> /msg dpkg jessie->stretch
1478 [13:27:36] *** Quits: yokisuci (~yokisuci@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1479 [13:27:43] <linuxson> rant,
replaced-url
1480 [13:27:53] <linuxson> rant, Output from journalctl
1481 [13:27:54] *** Joins: ae-35 (~ae-35@replaced-ip )
1482 [13:29:14] <linuxson> rant,
replaced-url
1483 [13:29:22] <linuxson> rant, Output from dmesg
1484 [13:29:59] <rant> linuxson: journalctl includes the kernel
buffer it was more an either/or thing.. heh.. journalctl is more
info
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1486 [13:30:37] *** Joins: BCMM (~BCMM@replaced-ip )
1487 [13:30:40] <linuxson> rant, hehe....sorry, bit of a
perfectionist
1488 [13:30:58] <rant> I personally prefer dmesg its cleaner..
journalctl output is everything mashed together without further
options
1489 [13:31:45] <linuxson> rant, yeah...dmesg is MUCH cleaner
1490 [13:31:53] *** Quits: indibart (~andy@replaced-ip ) (Quit: indibart)
1491 [13:32:30] <rant> qqz: having removed task laptop, with
"standard system utilties" only selected during install
and nothing else, then installing apt install matchbox lightdm I
have a system weighing in at 1.2G on amd64
1492 [13:32:33] *** Joins: indibart (~andy@replaced-ip )
1493 [13:33:18] <rant> qqz: that alone could be slimmed a bit as
the lightdm pulls in the entire xorg, all video drivers, etc..
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1496 [13:33:32] <qqz> yes; that will be good since I plan to
install some freedict dictionaries
1497 [13:33:41] *** Joins: buttros_ (~buttros_@replaced-ip )
1498 [13:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1516
1499 [13:34:03] * rant starts lightdm to get a look at matchbox
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1507 [13:35:46] <rant> qqz: yeah this is WAY basic :P
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1513 [13:38:32] <rant> qqz:
replaced-url
1514 [13:39:09] <humpled> who needs a login manager
1515 [13:39:19] <rant> qqz: what you see there was only 84MB
though, the bulk of the usage came from xorg/lightdm install..
mostly xorg..
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1518 [13:40:58] <qqz> looks good
1519 [13:41:56] <rant> qqz: yeah I am not sure this is what you
want though.. I think its more meant for embedded kiosk style use..
I think I can get somethig comparable in size with better
functionality
1520 [13:42:03] <rant> possibly even less in size
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1522 [13:42:47] <qqz> ok; good; shall I come online later on,
shall I leave konversation open
1523 [13:42:50] <rant> gonna try this next vm without the standard
system utils and installing only the bare minimum xorg packages
required and see what the smallest is I can get just x, then clone
and go from there
1524 [13:43:08] <qqz> rant: .. or would you even send me via email
to estellnb@elstel.org?
1525 [13:43:12] *** Joins: semeion (~semeion@replaced-ip )
1526 [13:43:14] <rant> qqz: if you close your client I can put you
on notify and know when you rejoin, otheriws you can ping me
1527 [13:43:35] *** Quits: teclo- (42@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1528 [13:43:40] <rant> qqz: possibly.. you shouldnt post emails
anywhere.. things get spammy :P
1529 [13:44:06] <qqz> ok; good let us meet on irc (if not on email
before)
1530 [13:44:29] <qqz> the email is world readable at
replaced-url
1531 [13:44:43] <rant> ah.. its a mailbin?
1532 [13:45:15] <rant> guess you didnt need to be worried then :P
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1535 [13:46:23] * rant makes a smallest base+x and clones to try
mix/match stuff from there
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1539 [13:49:28] <rant> linuxson: yeah the kernel doesnt seem to
see any other network device other than the usb ethernet
1540 [13:50:03] <qqz> no there is no AI to presort the emails like
for mailbin
1541 [13:50:20] <qqz> just the spam filter of my provider
dotplex.de (which also offers DANE)
1542 [13:50:36] <qqz> or what do you mean by mailbin?
1543 [13:51:01] *** BitterMuffin is now known as DomaMuffin
1544 [13:51:39] <rant> qqz: like mailinator.com where you can
makeup and ol address and as soon as mail comes in to that adress it
creates the mailbox on the fly and all you need to know to check the
malbox is the email, there is no password or login
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1547 [13:52:55] <qqz> ahh something like temporary disposable
emails
1548 [13:53:14] <qqz> no elstel.org is my webpage, it has been the
same for years
1549 [13:53:37] <rant> linuxson:
replaced-url
1550 [13:53:41] *** Quits: flokuehn (~flokuehn@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1551 [13:53:49] <rant> linuxson: its not standard pci or usb I
guess
1552 [13:54:05] <rant> linuxson: its more embedded on an SoC with
the CPU
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1556 [13:56:12] <linuxson> rant, hmmmm....so what are my options?
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1558 [13:57:05] <rant> linuxson: idk yet so far I see no i2s or
uart in your dmesg, and only sdio is a memory card reader.. so
again, kernel isnt seeing it
1559 [13:57:14] <rant> linuxson: are you sure its not disabled in
the bios?
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1561 [13:57:35] <linuxson> rant, I could check, but didnt notice
an option for wifi in there
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1563 [13:58:08] <rant> linuxson: look at everything and make
sure.. I'll keep digging see if I can find any mention of
cherry trail embedded wifi working on any linux
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1614 [14:27:54] <anonyan> hello. can i use openrc insteal of
systemd?
1615 [14:28:33] <anonyan> as i understand than there is no
official support? nut there are all almost necessary packages in
official repo
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1622 [14:31:39] <PaulePanter> Hi.
replaced-url
1623 [14:31:47] <PaulePanter> It’s now at
replaced-url
1624 [14:31:49] *** Quits: FriedEggBanjo (~FriedEggB@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1625 [14:31:56] <PaulePanter> How can this be updated.
1626 [14:31:59] *** Quits: tagomago (~tagomago@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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1628 [14:32:35] <Ticho_> is anyone here experienced with chrony
the timekeeping daemon? I'd like to know if I can control after
how long period of a server time source being unreachable will the
daemon mark it as such
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1632 [14:33:34] <EdePopede> PaulePanter: the VCS link to the Git?
there's plenty of them, should be done by some script on the
server
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1659 [14:49:04] <PaulePanter> EdePopede: Understood.
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1690 [15:16:03] <dob1> hi, I am stuck at the installer on creation
the partions. It complains about the uefi partition but I don't
understand how to create it
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1693 [15:16:45] <rant> that linuxson never came back.. but I
suspect after researching that the Cherry Trail is supported in 4.11
or better.. the 4.9 kernel is just too old as the SoC came out in
Aug 2016
1694 [15:17:26] *** Joins: oish_ (~charlie@replaced-ip )
1695 [15:17:35] <rant> dob1: are you dual-booting?
1696 [15:17:43] <dob1> rant, no, it's a new hdd
1697 [15:17:53] *** Quits: shabius (~shabius@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 259 seconds)
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1699 [15:18:18] <rant> dob1: then unless the system can't do
it, disable UEFI, its microsoft crap and just a headache with no
benefit
1700 [15:18:29] <dob1> rant, and how can I do this?
1701 [15:18:36] *** Joins: Makaveli7 (~Makaveli7@replaced-ip )
1702 [15:18:37] <rant> like WGA its just another way to keep you
out of your computer
1703 [15:18:47] *** Quits: Texou (~Texou@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1704 [15:18:48] <rant> dob1: most systems can disable it in the
bios
1705 [15:19:07] <rant> I have it turned off in this Thinkpad T440
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1709 [15:20:11] <dob1> rant, there was a point where debian
installer asked about (I don't remember it all) : do you want
to use uefi or keep bios compatibility? I answered UEFI. But now
even going back on the installer I am not able to return to this
question
1710 [15:20:55] <rant> dob1: reboot your system, enter the bios
setup, look for and disable any UEFI stuff, set it to legacy, then
just use normal bios compat
1711 [15:21:10] <rant> if you're only at partitioning, you
havent made any significant progress yet
1712 [15:21:13] <dob1> rant, I can't. I am installing via ssh
1713 [15:21:39] <rant> ah.. well there it is :P
1714 [15:21:41] <dob1> and there is nobody there
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1718 [15:22:03] <dob1> rant, can you explain me why I can't
proceed? just to understand
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1721 [15:22:30] <dob1> and why debian can't create a uefi
partition? is something proprietary?
1722 [15:22:39] <rant> dob1: you probably can, if you go read up
on the wiki about uefi.. but I would just stop and wait till I could
disable uefi
1723 [15:22:40] *** Quits: Old_Dog (~Old_Dog@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
1724 [15:22:47] <rant> dob1: yes, its entirely proprietary
1725 [15:23:01] *** Joins: Old_Dog (~Old_Dog@replaced-ip )
1726 [15:23:12] <rant> it was made for and by microsoft and only
keys that work for it afaik are microsoft keys
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1731 [15:23:20] <rant> !uefi
1732 [15:23:20] <dpkg> Unified Extensible Firmware Interface
(UEFI) is a firmware interface specification, intended to replace
the <BIOS> firmware interface. Debian 7 "Wheezy" and
later releases support installation in (U)EFI mode on 64-bit PC
systems (amd64), <secure boot> is currently not supported.
replaced-url
1733 [15:23:41] <dob1> rant, just to understand. uefi is the new
"bios" interface?
1734 [15:23:49] *** Quits: oish_ (~charlie@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1735 [15:23:50] <dob1> let's call it the "fancy"
one ?
1736 [15:24:25] *** Joins: jasonwc (~jasonwc@replaced-ip )
1737 [15:24:30] <rant> dob1: no, its more like Windows Genuine
Advantage, its designed to keep you out of your computer.. its
mostly just to insure you're running only the software that
came with the machine
1738 [15:24:41] *** Joins: r3 (~r3@replaced-ip )
1739 [15:25:04] <rant> it checks the uefi parition on the drive
and looks for a key that is authorized to boot on the machine
1740 [15:25:11] <rant> its like copy protection on media
1741 [15:25:19] <rant> DRM for boot disks
1742 [15:25:24] *** Joins: retpoline (~retpoline@replaced-ip )
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1744 [15:25:48] <rant> its not a bad idea in and of itself.. its
just who comissioned intel to do it..
1745 [15:25:52] <rant> and how they did it
1746 [15:25:54] <dob1> but on wikipedia it says "it replaced
BIOS"
1747 [15:25:56] *** Joins: msimpson_ (~msimpson@replaced-ip )
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1750 [15:26:53] <rant> yeah well thats not entirely accurate.. nor
is the name UEFI
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1753 [15:28:22] <dob1> rant, not do doubt your help, but I am a
bit confused from what I am reading
1754 [15:29:14] <LtL> dob1: don't trust everything you read
on wikipedia
1755 [15:29:34] <dob1> I am reading various sites
1756 [15:29:53] <rant> dob1: the installer should be able to setup
the ESP partition but basically what it comes down to is UEFI is
annoying and not required in most all cases, and should be disabled
if not running windows
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1763 [15:30:46] <dob1> The motherboard manufacturer will have
implemented either BIOS or UEFI, it is stored in a ROM chip on the
motherboard and not tied to the chipset or CPU.
1764 [15:30:49] <dob1> I read this
1765 [15:31:16] <dob1> and on other some articles I read that you
need windows to disable UEFI
1766 [15:31:54] <LtL> dob1: that's just wrong
1767 [15:32:33] *** Quits: achen_ (~thefatma@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
1768 [15:32:40] <dob1> rant, where it creates this partition? for
example I have to leave free space?
1769 [15:33:13] <rant> dob1: it should load the module partman-efi
and do it in the partitioning
1770 [15:33:38] <dob1> rant, when?
1771 [15:33:43] *** Quits: cryptic (~cryptic@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1772 [15:34:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1527
1773 [15:34:07] <rant> dob1: no clue.. I wouldnt use it.. and I
can't simulate it with my VM so..
1774 [15:34:25] <dob1> can I make some "damage" if i try
?
1775 [15:34:35] *** Joins: annadane (~annadane@replaced-ip )
1776 [15:35:43] *** Quits: msimpson_ (~msimpson@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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1778 [15:36:44] *** Quits: teclo- (42@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1779 [15:36:48] <rant> what I do know is.. the installer supports
it, and has always been WIDHE compliant.. so if you had just When In
Doubt Hit Enter it should've done it
1780 [15:37:06] <rant> you probably stopped it by pressing
something other than enter and went into manual partitioning
1781 [15:37:20] *** Quits: warai_otoko (~warai_oto@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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1784 [15:38:16] *** Quits: chalcedony (~chalcedon@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1785 [15:38:32] <dob1> rant, I found this
replaced-url
1786 [15:38:39] <rant> so there should probably be some setting in
there for setting up that ESP but I dont readily know.. cause I
never used it.. UEFI to me is just going back to ancient legacy
practices of needing a bootable flag on a partition of a certain
size and blah blah blah..
1787 [15:38:57] *** Joins: Guest39280 (~luca@replaced-ip )
1788 [15:38:59] *** Joins: chalcedony (~chalcedon@replaced-ip )
1789 [15:39:06] <dob1> no wait, there is EFI System partition as
filesystem
1790 [15:39:10] <dob1> it's this?
1791 [15:39:16] <rant> yes
1792 [15:39:30] <rant> ESP stands for EFI System Partition
1793 [15:39:45] <rant> its a partition that contains the EFI
bootloader and kernels and such
1794 [15:40:15] *** Joins: oish_ (~charlie@replaced-ip )
1795 [15:40:19] <dob1> "Now you will see ESP flags on the
partition list. There is one more steps: you have to toggle bootable
option on this newly created ESP partition." why?
1796 [15:40:38] *** Joins: CrystalMath (~coderain@replaced-ip )
1797 [15:40:41] *** Joins: warai_otoko (~warai_oto@replaced-ip )
1798 [15:40:53] <rant> because, as I was just saying
"legacy" is more new-aged than this so-called new qand
improved UEFI :P
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1800 [15:41:15] *** Quits: Sepultura (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Changing host)
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1802 [15:41:41] <dob1> rant, sorry I am lost :)
1803 [15:41:42] <rant> "legacy" bios hasnt required
flags, fat partitions, partitions of a certain location or size,
etc, ever since a GNU created a real bootloader
1804 [15:42:04] <dob1> this uefi partition is where it will be put
grub ?
1805 [15:42:13] <rant> you just slapped a decent bootloadre like
grub on the MBR of the disk and used whatever you wanted
1806 [15:42:13] *** Joins: msimpson_ (~msimpson@replaced-ip )
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1809 [15:42:31] <rant> dob1: grub-efi, sure
1810 [15:42:44] <dob1> so it needs to be bootable
1811 [15:42:59] <rant> again, I have no idea.. but probably, yes
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1813 [15:43:25] <rant> like a lot of recent developments in
computing, this was a step forward and two steps back
1814 [15:43:54] <rant> because it was a collaboration with morons
with other agendas.. i.e. microsoft and intel
1815 [15:44:33] <dob1> ok but unfortunately a lot of times you
can't decide with what you have to work
1816 [15:44:33] <rant> the legit purpose was to create a more
extendable firmware system to support newer hardware going forward
1817 [15:44:47] <dob1> so better try to learn them, imho
1818 [15:45:05] <rant> you can if you dont meet any necessary
criteria for using such crap, just set it to revert to legacy bios
1819 [15:45:43] <rant> as long as the disk is detected, and wont
be running windows 10, there is no real need for having UEFI boot
enabled
1820 [15:45:44] *** Quits: tnozyrox (~tnozyrox@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1821 [15:45:56] *** Quits: p2hc (~p2hc@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1822 [15:46:11] <rant> I disabled UEFI and about half a dozen
backdoors in mine
1823 [15:46:21] *** Joins: cryptic (~cryptic@replaced-ip )
1824 [15:46:29] <rant> fancy crap had a ton of remote management
things running outside the OS
1825 [15:46:41] *** Joins: chalcedny (~chalcedon@replaced-ip )
1826 [15:47:14] <dob1> I have to wait someone will return where te
pc is :)
1827 [15:47:22] *** Quits: rossholmes (~yaaic@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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1831 [15:48:34] <dob1> rant, ok but you made an assumption: in
every motherboard you can disalbe uefi, is this always true?
1832 [15:48:37] *** Quits: fedorafan (~fedorafan@replaced-ip ) (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
1833 [15:49:07] <rant> dob1: for the most part to help your
confusion, the main feature I'm talking about is "secure
boot" and for the most part what you say about UEFI being a
BIOS replacement is true
1834 [15:49:11] *** Joins: woshty (~woshty@replaced-ip )
1835 [15:50:20] <rant> dob1: however even back when we called it
BIOS that was only the software.. and it was used interchangably to
mean CMOS or other things.. and in the same way BIOS will continue
to be used in much literature and in the kernel as a way to describe
the software that exists on the mobo itself
1836 [15:50:24] *** Quits: msimpson_ (~msimpson@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1837 [15:50:38] *** Quits: maelcum (~horst@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1838 [15:50:50] *** Quits: in1t3r (~LordShiva@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1839 [15:51:07] <rant> dob1: and while many will cite advnatages..
none of these have really been utilized and the only practical
differences have been a buncha crap that keeps you out of your
computer and lets people in remotely
1840 [15:51:12] *** Joins: Slashman (~Slash@replaced-ip )
1841 [15:51:48] <rant> dob1: for the most part, yes, they all
still have legacy mode and it doesnt require a microsoft filesystem
to function
1842 [15:52:26] <dob1> rant, legacy or deprecated ?
1843 [15:52:35] <rant> there should be a UEFI replacing legacy
bios.. it just shouldnt be like it is :P
1844 [15:52:43] *** Joins: bodik (~bodik@replaced-ip )
1845 [15:52:52] <rant> and since what it is.. can often be
disabled, I say it should be
1846 [15:54:41] <rant> mine has UEFI Boot, SecureBoot, Comutrace,
TPM, all kinda crap.. its all disabled
1847 [15:55:26] <dob1> rant, I have to tell the person on the pc
to search for UEFI boot and disable it?
1848 [15:55:35] <dob1> this is what is called ?
1849 [15:55:55] <tachikomas> rant:you should run coreboot /
seabios
1850 [15:56:25] <rant> could be.. could be called boot mode idk..
no idea what kinda computer we're talking about every BIOS/UEFI
is different
1851 [15:56:39] <rant> tachikomas: idk that its available for my
machine
1852 [15:56:46] <LtL> dob1: either disable UEFI or enable legacy
BIOS booting and disable secure boot.
1853 [15:56:55] *** Quits: bionade24 (~oskar@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1854 [15:57:10] *** Quits: Sollg3r (~ejakuk@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1855 [15:57:11] *** Joins: nehemiah (~nehemiah@replaced-ip )
1856 [15:57:13] <rant> even the mfgs dont know what to call this
crap
1857 [15:57:24] <rant> mine calls it a UEFI BIOS
1858 [15:57:31] *** Joins: crn (~Chuck@replaced-ip )
1859 [15:57:36] *** Joins: Corshine7 (~Corshine7@replaced-ip )
1860 [15:57:38] <tachikomas> rant: what machine do you use ?
1861 [15:57:41] <rant> so how can one replace the other if it uses
both terms to identify it? :P
1862 [15:57:52] *** Quits: pamaury (~pamaury@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1863 [15:58:03] <rant> tachikomas: Lenovo Thinkpad T440 currently
1864 [15:58:14] *** Quits: crn (~Chuck@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
1865 [15:58:20] <tachikomas> rant: you should definitely find a
coreboot version for this one
1866 [15:58:27] <rant> tachikomas: i recall reading about it and
it didnt seem viable
1867 [15:58:30] *** Joins: crn (~Chuck@replaced-ip )
1868 [15:58:45] <tachikomas> i am using it on my daily driver on
my x230
1869 [15:58:52] <rant> it also seemed more complicated than UEFI
Boot to set it up :P
1870 [15:59:19] <rant> it wasnt like just going to your mfg site
and downloading a flash util like the old days
1871 [15:59:41] <tachikomas> nah you need to use a raspberry and
inject the bios by flashing the chip itself
1872 [15:59:42] <rant> sounded like it needed to be maticulously
homebrewed and in many cases manually flashed like a jtag or
something
1873 [15:59:49] *** Quits: crn (~Chuck@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
1874 [16:00:01] *** Joins: crn (~Chuck@replaced-ip )
1875 [16:00:05] <tachikomas> while not powered :) but thats a fun
opensource project
1876 [16:00:26] <rant> yeah, when I'm as nutty as RMS
I'll get right on that..
1877 [16:00:46] *** Quits: Achylles (~Achylles@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1878 [16:00:48] *** Quits: P1ersson (~P1ersson@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1879 [16:00:49] <rant> no wait.. if I was as nutty as RMS I
wouldnt have bought this in the first place :P
1880 [16:01:08] <Corshine7> from scale 1-10 how good is ubuntu
19.04?
1881 [16:01:28] <rant> though technically I didnt buy it, I traded
a buncha old T-series most broken in some way, for it
1882 [16:01:32] <dob1> Corshine7, not a good question here :)
1883 [16:01:40] <tachikomas> rant: :D
1884 [16:01:48] <Corshine7> lmao
1885 [16:01:50] *** Joins: Apyr (~Apyr@replaced-ip )
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1887 [16:02:09] *** Joins: tnozyrox__ (~tnozyrox@replaced-ip )
1888 [16:02:35] <rant> Corshine7: -∞
1889 [16:02:47] *** Joins: manuelschneid3r (~manuelsch@replaced-ip )
1890 [16:03:08] *** Quits: Guest39280 (~luca@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1891 [16:03:40] *** Parts: bodik (~bodik@replaced-ip ) ()
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1893 [16:05:02] *** Quits: tnozyrox_ (~tnozyrox@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1894 [16:05:48] <rant> Corshine7: Ubuntu is an ancient african
word for can't install debian
1895 [16:05:49] *** Quits: Texou (~Texou@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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1898 [16:08:12] *** Joins: msimpson (~msimpson@replaced-ip )
1899 [16:08:13] <wm4> is debian unstable in a release feature
freeze mode?
1900 [16:08:27] <annadane> Corshine7, ##linux
1901 [16:08:34] <annadane> or um, #ubuntu
1902 [16:08:36] <wm4> how do I get the newest packages now
1903 [16:08:39] <rant> wm4: no thats Debian testing
"Buster"
1904 [16:09:04] <wm4> I'm on unstable and lately there have
been very little updates
1905 [16:09:22] *** Joins: mnemonic (~semeion@replaced-ip )
1906 [16:09:29] <rant> wm4: we're in a freeze.. devs are
focused on releasing Debian 10
1907 [16:09:39] *** Joins: BazookaTooth (~bob@replaced-ip )
1908 [16:09:41] <wm4> well that sucks
1909 [16:09:51] <wm4> I was hoping for the new mesa release, to
test something
1910 [16:09:58] <JyZyXEL> rocks for the ones waiting on the update
:)
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1912 [16:11:10] *** Joins: yans (~yans@replaced-ip )
1913 [16:11:22] <rant> ,v libgl1-mesa-dri
1914 [16:11:23] <judd> Package: libgl1-mesa-dri on amd64 --
jessie: 10.3.2-1+deb8u1; stretch: 13.0.6-1+b2; stretch-backports:
18.2.8-2~bpo9+1; buster: 18.3.4-2; sid: 18.3.6-1; experimental:
19.0.2-1
1915 [16:11:59] *** Quits: johnjay (~pi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1916 [16:12:07] <rant> wm4: that version 18.3.6 IS the latest
1917 [16:12:12] *** Joins: bionade24 (~oskar@replaced-ip )
1918 [16:12:33] *** Joins: citypw (~citypw@replaced-ip )
1919 [16:12:44] <jelly> !slushy
1920 [16:12:45] <dpkg> When a <testing> release becomes
frozen, <unstable> tends to partially freeze as well. This is
because developers are reluctant to upload radically new software to
unstable, in case the frozen software in testing needs minor updates
and to fix release critical bugs which keep testing from becoming
<stable>.
1921 [16:12:59] *** Joins: HarveyPwca (~HarveyPwc@replaced-ip )
1922 [16:13:15] <wm4> rant: well Mesa 19 was released a month ago
1923 [16:13:23] <wm4> I'm interested in the freesync stuff
1924 [16:13:34] *** Joins: johnjay (~pi@replaced-ip )
1925 [16:13:38] <rant> wm4: the experimental preview version
19.0.2 is also available
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1927 [16:14:14] *** Joins: GaneshR (~ganeshraj@replaced-ip )
1928 [16:14:23] <dob1> I disabled secure boot but it's not
enough, right?
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1930 [16:14:40] *** Joins: juko (~juko@replaced-ip )
1931 [16:14:44] <rant> personally when I wanted to test something
like a new sdl or mesa for something I compiled it in somewhere like
/opt and used LD_PRELOAD or whatever that env var was
1932 [16:14:51] <jelly> !experimental
1933 [16:14:52] <dpkg> experimental is the bleeding edge of Debian
Development. Packages here have been deemed
unfit/DANGEROUS/untrustworthy/etc for release by the maintainer
responsible for them. DO NOT INSTALL PACKAGES FROM EXPERIMENTAL
WITHOUT KNOWING EXACTLY WHY AND WHAT YOU ARE DOING. #debian does
_not_ support experimental. For an actual description, see section
4.6.4.3 of the Developer's Reference.
replaced-url
1934 [16:15:26] <jelly> also, if you're on sid,
1935 [16:15:27] <rant> wm4: mesa 19 wasnt a stable release, its a
dev release
1936 [16:15:28] <jelly> !debian-next
1937 [16:15:28] <dpkg> #debian-next is the channel for
testing/unstable support on the OFTC network (irc.oftc.net), *not*
on freenode. If you get "Cannot join #debian-next (Channel is
invite only)." it means you did not read it's on
irc.oftc.net.
1938 [16:15:54] <annadane> i think mesa 18 is in backports, or
something
1939 [16:16:12] <annadane> so if you want "a newer mesa"
that may be an option but you specifically wated 19
1940 [16:16:15] <annadane> wanted
1941 [16:16:18] <jelly> backports mean crap for them if
they're on sid
1942 [16:16:27] <annadane> oh they're on sid already? ok then
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1945 [16:16:54] <jelly> [14:09] <wm4> I'm on unstable
and lately there have been very little updates
1946 [16:17:18] <rant> yeah I forgot about the slushy thing..
heh.. I just recall its normal for sid to slow a bit
1947 [16:17:27] *** Quits: interrobangd (~interroba@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
1948 [16:17:28] <rant> but there is no actual "freeze"
of sid
1949 [16:17:53] *** Joins: qqz (~elm@replaced-ip )
1950 [16:18:03] <rant> it really would also depend on the packages
and maintainer in question
1951 [16:18:04] *** Joins: jhutchins_wk (~jonathan@replaced-ip )
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1953 [16:18:10] <wm4> well I know it from past releases
1954 [16:18:28] <wm4> once the release is done there will be
gigabytes of updates suddenly
1955 [16:18:39] <wm4> I think debian should have a rolling release
1956 [16:18:40] <rant> mesa is a rather large integral thing..
they're gonna wanna keep that close until release and focus on
any RC bugs
1957 [16:18:47] <jelly> !nopony wm4
1958 [16:18:47] <dpkg> wm4:
replaced-url
1959 [16:19:00] <rant> wm4: we do, its called ubuntu :P
1960 [16:19:20] *** Quits: oish_ (~charlie@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1961 [16:19:21] <wm4> well there are enough arguments in favor of
rolling releases (and ubuntu has its longtime releases, not really
rolling)
1962 [16:19:36] <jelly> there are certainly attempts like sidux,
but they're not Debian
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1966 [16:20:13] <rant> I came here some 17ish years ago and stayed
and use nothing but debian stable because I read their two docs the
Social Contract and Why Debian? and I couldn't agree more
1967 [16:20:13] <jelly> wm4: arguments are worthless, please
provide time or knowhow or money for devs to make it happen
1968 [16:20:19] *** Joins: fedorafan (~fedorafan@replaced-ip )
1969 [16:20:38] <jhutchins_wk> wm4: That's not what Debian is
about. There are plenty of other distros.
1970 [16:20:42] <rant> the day any of that changes, I'll be
considering other options
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1973 [16:21:21] <wm4> well don't complain that I'll use
unstable as rolling distro
1974 [16:21:34] *** Joins: mthe878 (~mthe@replaced-ip )
1975 [16:21:45] <annadane> people do use sid as rolling and
that's fine but it's not a true rolling distro like other
distros focus on
1976 [16:22:07] <jelly> jhutchins_wk: well, debian is whatever DDs
and DMs pick, there's nothing in DFSG or the social contract
that prevents a rolling release to happen
1977 [16:22:22] <jelly> it's just a LOT of continuous work
1978 [16:22:25] <greycat> it's fine that people use sid as
long as they understand that they are volunteering to be
alpha-testers
1979 [16:22:25] <wm4> about dev resources, I tink the focus on the
stable release is a waste (or rather, there could be a much smaller
and in fact more stable server-only stable release)
1980 [16:22:57] <jelly> we'll have to disagree on that
1981 [16:23:03] <rant> jelly: the part about the priorities is my
argument to that.. but it could go both ways
1982 [16:23:27] <rant> one could say the part about priorty being
our users.. and if thats what the users want..
1983 [16:23:37] <rant> I say the part about stability being a
priority
1984 [16:25:11] <wm4> I wouldn't mind stability if I
didn't have to do a _very_ unstable upgrade every other year
1985 [16:25:28] <wm4> also as a developer, being on old versions
can be a real pain
1986 [16:25:41] <rant> I always felt much as greycat expressed
though.. that using testing/unstable should be more an obligation of
a user to be a tester than to "circumvent" stable
1987 [16:25:48] *** Joins: citypw (~citypw@replaced-ip )
1988 [16:26:17] <rant> if you dont want to use stable just because
you dont like it, and you are not actively participating in testing
and release of a new stable, then you're not a debian user
1989 [16:26:18] <Fox> in "real" business production
stable is the only acceptable choice
1990 [16:26:26] <petn-randall> this ^
1991 [16:26:39] <annadane> i find hat i need newer can be
compiled/run in a vm/other computer/whatever
1992 [16:26:57] <annadane> it's assuring to know things
don't change
1993 [16:27:12] <petn-randall> If you want the shinies and newest
stuff, there are tons of distros that do just that. But you'll
have to cope with the much higher frequency of bugs, too.
1994 [16:27:20] <petn-randall> *shiniest
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1997 [16:27:36] <qqz> rant: have you tested another setup?
1998 [16:27:37] <wm4> what business uses Linux on the desktop
1999 [16:27:37] <jhutchins_wk> wm4: As a developer, keeping
compatibility with older releases has a very strong advantage.
Requiring unstable bleeding-edge environments means you can never be
taken seriously.
2000 [16:27:49] <rant> this is why I say no to rolling cause I
seen ubuntu systems crash and burn on updates with their time-based
schedule
2001 [16:27:59] *** Joins: DeadTOm (~deadtom@replaced-ip )
2002 [16:28:00] <petn-randall> wm4: 70% of the internet?
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2004 [16:28:19] <petn-randall> Oh, desktop. The city of munich,
many universities, etc.
2005 [16:28:27] *** Joins: rossholmes (~yaaic@replaced-ip )
2006 [16:28:34] <wm4> petn-randall: yeah, but that's servers
2007 [16:28:35] <rant> qqz: I got one with the most bare X and
base that is 839M but has no DM/DE/WM or anything
2008 [16:28:35] <annadane> also "unstable upgrades"...
YMMV but debian does try to make stable -> stable releases pain
free
2009 [16:28:39] <jhutchins_wk> wm4: We're kind of small, I
only manage around 1500 linux servers.
2010 [16:29:18] <jhutchins_wk> wm4: Who cares about desktops?
They're disposable. They're phones.
2011 [16:29:18] <Fox> I've been dist-upgrading for 3 stable
releases an never had a real/serious problem
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2013 [16:29:35] *** Quits: Apyr (~Apyr@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2014 [16:29:36] <rant> qqz: I was thinking about what route to go
with it while devouring a pizza.. heh.. I was prob gonna try get
something with a panel, wm, abiword, gnumeric, etc
2015 [16:29:45] <rant> maybe pcmanfm for the file manager
2016 [16:30:16] *** Quits: toxync12 (~toxync12@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.1 - ##replaced-url
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2018 [16:31:02] <wm4> jhutchins_wk: well I'm using Linux on
the desktop (at work too)
2019 [16:31:17] *** Quits: mnemonic (~semeion@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2020 [16:31:46] <qqz> rant: perhaps I give a short description on
my homepage on how to install Debian for low disk space
2021 [16:31:52] <rant> qqz: apt install xterm pcmanfm tint2
openbox will use 335MB additional putting below the 1.2G of matchbox
and lightdm
2022 [16:32:13] <dob1> ok I am proceeding on disk partition. It is
true that is better to not put a swap partition on ssd ?
2023 [16:32:49] <rant> qqz: tint2 is a decent lightweight panel,
and openbox a rather minimal wm, pcmanfm is a decent looking lighter
file manager I think is about as featureful as thunar/caja/nautilus
but way smaller
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2026 [16:33:14] <qqz> rant: how to measure the disk space occupied
by a certain number of packages?
2027 [16:34:01] <jhutchins_wk> dob1: If things are normal you
won't be swapping,so it doesn't matter. If it were 1995
and you were constantly using the swap it might.
2028 [16:34:12] <annadane> the other thing is subjectively i find
it can potentially be exhausting to constantly be in charge of
updates
2029 [16:34:17] <annadane> and keeping track of what changed
2030 [16:34:25] <annadane> so that's partially also why some
prefer stable
2031 [16:34:41] <rant> qqz: not sure how you mean but I just have
this vm here with the base install (nothing selected during the
installer) and then I told it apt install xserver-xorg at first boot
and its 839MB on amd64, and then as I try apt install lines like the
one I just told you, it tells me how much additional disk space will
be used after install
2032 [16:34:50] <rant> qqz: I can just say no and try other ones
and see
2033 [16:35:07] <dob1> jhutchins_wk, considering that I will have
a "normal" hdd too, I can put the swap partition there
then. just to have one
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2037 [16:36:10] <qqz> about removing laptop with tasksel: how can
I make sure that it does not uninstall anything that may be of use
like a battery monitor or so?
2038 [16:36:32] <rant> qqz: uninstalling the laptop task is
negligable in size difference really
2039 [16:36:51] <rant> qqz: but any task is also a meta package
typically
2040 [16:37:14] <rant> qqz: ie task-laptop
2041 [16:37:54] <rant> qqz: so you could say apt remove
task-laptop which will only remove the empty metapackage.. then apt
autoremove will then remove the packages which were auto-installed
as dependencies..
2042 [16:38:26] <rant> qqz: if you see one you want to keep, say
no on the autoremove, tell it apt install foo and it will mark foo
as manual, then autoremove wont remove it
2043 [16:38:38] *** Joins: culotte (~culotte@replaced-ip )
2044 [16:38:52] <dob1> I am installing it, thanks rant for all the
info about uefi :)
2045 [16:39:30] <rant> dob1: it was more bitching about it than
anything :P
2046 [16:39:56] *** Joins: timahvo1 (~rogue@replaced-ip )
2047 [16:41:32] <dob1> which desktop environment is the official
one? xfce?
2048 [16:41:51] *** Quits: oiaohm (~oiaohm@replaced-ip ) ()
2049 [16:41:55] <greycat> What do you mean by
"official"?
2050 [16:42:00] <rant> there is no official one, gnome is
installed if you dont specify
2051 [16:42:17] <rant> unless you downloaded something like the
xfce iso
2052 [16:43:04] <dob1> greycat, I am on tasksel, I have
"desktop environmet selected" then other choice GNOME,
Xfce, etc (none of them selected). which one will be installed with
just "desktop environment"?
2053 [16:43:10] <annadane> gnome
2054 [16:44:04] <wm4> I regret that ubuntu switched from unity to
gnome
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2057 [16:45:39] <rant> I regret that gnome switched to gnome :P
2058 [16:45:48] *** Quits: drzacek (~drzacek@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2059 [16:45:52] <dob1> the gnome shell no... I think I will go
with mate or xfce
2060 [16:45:58] *** Quits: Pjusur (~Pjusur@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2061 [16:46:15] <rant> yes I think mate, xfce, cinnamon are the
most usable ones
2062 [16:46:33] *** Joins: teclo- (42@replaced-ip )
2063 [16:46:57] <rant> xfce had a lot of cool things but didnt
feel as mature.. there were lil quirks and missing features
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2066 [16:48:10] <rant> the new mate in buster has several new
panel applet packages that have different menus that make it feel
more like cinnamon or lxde or such
2067 [16:48:28] <annadane> xfce in stretch is unfortunately a tad
buggy
2068 [16:48:50] <greycat> I still don't use a desktop
environment. fvwm 4ever.
2069 [16:49:34] <Fox> greycat: you're old (I am too, I use
wmaker)
2070 [16:49:37] <annadane> (but i still use it because i really
like its suite of applications and general way of doing things)
2071 [16:49:38] <dob1> so why there is "debian desktop
environment" ( I am translating it) and then gnome again?
2072 [16:49:47] <rant> well some things that bugged me switching
from mate to xfce for awhile was lack of certain polished off things
like mate-volume-control or such.. plugging in external displays on
vga or dp would not automatically recall my layout, I'd have to
manually enable and configure them, etc..
2073 [16:49:59] <greycat> dob1: apparently someone thought it was
a good idea
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2079 [16:51:52] <rant> one thing I think needs to be figured out
is how to deal with multiple de so that a buncha redundant crap isnt
cluttering the menu by default..
2080 [16:52:08] <dob1> greycat, maybe if I select just the desktop
environment it doesn't install the graphical login?
2081 [16:52:55] <dob1> I mean If I select just gnome it
doesn't install the graphical login (I don't remember the
package name :)
2082 [16:53:11] <rant> dob1: gdm
2083 [16:53:28] <rant> ,i gdm3
2084 [16:53:29] <judd> Package gdm3 (gnome, optional) in
stretch/amd64: GNOME Display Manager. Version: 3.22.3-3+deb9u2;
Size: 654.5k; Installed: 4649k; Screenshot:
replaced-url
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2088 [16:54:31] <annadane> it should instal graphical login, those
tasksel packages install a crapload of stuff
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2091 [16:56:29] <rant> idk why it has one tasksel it calls tasksel
in the installer with this confusing redundancy, and no mention of
the "laptop" task it seems to install, then installs by
default a totally different tasksel :P
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2094 [16:57:28] <johnjay> i just installed stretch and it asked if
i wanted gdm3 or lightdm iirc
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2096 [16:57:34] <johnjay> i think it doesn't let you choose
both?
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2098 [16:57:52] <dob1> johnjay, what you selected on tasksel?
2099 [16:57:53] <rant> thats just asking which to run probably
cause you had both installed
2100 [16:58:02] *** Quits: yokel (~yokel@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2101 [16:58:03] <johnjay> rant: oh yeah i think you're right
2102 [16:58:10] <johnjay> dob1: is tasksel used in the installer?
2103 [16:58:18] <rant> you can technically run two but youd have
to configure one to run on a diff tty
2104 [16:58:27] <johnjay> the menus looked similar. xfce, kde,
gnome,web server, ssh
2105 [16:58:35] *** Quits: maelcum (~horst@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2106 [16:58:50] <dob1> I thought it was tasksel the screen with
the software selections
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2110 [16:59:13] <johnjay> no rant is right. there's like two
of them, one during install and then one from running the tasksel
command
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2114 [16:59:25] * johnjay just wants to install groups of software like
games or math without hassle
2115 [16:59:25] <brokencycle> Hi! I am having trouble with my IP
filtering on my laptop.
2116 [16:59:30] *** Joins: teclo- (42@replaced-ip )
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2119 [16:59:53] <annadane> tasksel packages are the default
"desktop" packages
2120 [17:00:00] *** Parts: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip ) ("vergissmeinnicht")
2121 [17:00:10] *** Quits: msimpson (~msimpson@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
2122 [17:00:13] <brokencycle> The trouble is that dnsmasq does not
answer requests from my VMs (KVM, KVM2).
2123 [17:00:14] <annadane> gnomme kde mate xfce etc, shown in the
installer; and they install a lot of misc. stuff some people may not
want
2124 [17:00:21] <annadane> gnome*
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2127 [17:00:41] <annadane> i always uncheck all those and add what
i want manually
2128 [17:00:55] <brokencycle> Upon inspecting, I find that there
are two rulesets being installed, one in the nf_tables style,
2129 [17:01:01] <brokencycle> and one in the bpf style.
2130 [17:01:20] <brokencycle> These rule sets seem to be somehow
not quite compatible.
2131 [17:01:41] <brokencycle> In my firehol config, I have added a
"policy accept" for all the virtual interfaces,
2132 [17:02:05] <brokencycle> but I still get "DROP UNMATCHED
IN-world:IN=virbr0 OUT= PHYSIN=vnet1" etc.
2133 [17:02:40] *** Quits: encod3_ (~encod3@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
2134 [17:02:59] <brokencycle> First step, how can I force firehol
to use nf_tables?
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2136 [17:04:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1524
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2138 [17:04:57] <brokencycle> k. found it.
2139 [17:05:02] <brokencycle> :(
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2155 [17:12:11] <no_gravity> Is there a way to manually trigger
the screensave etc? I mean tell the laptop "Hey, I'm done
working for a while, you can rest now"?
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2159 [17:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1533
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2161 [17:14:08] <rant> no_gravity: yes
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2163 [17:15:23] <rant> no_gravity: how thats done depends on what
screensaver/lock facility you want to trigger.. xset s blank or such
commands do the most basic blanking or dpms off functions
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2165 [17:15:45] <no_gravity> mawk: I only want to tell the laptop
that it can idle for a bit.
2166 [17:15:46] <jhutchins_wk> no_gravity: It depends on what
desktop you run. Some have a feature to activate it if you mouse off
in a certain corner (never worked for me), some have a shortcut to
Lock the screen which usually activates the screensaver.
2167 [17:15:51] <no_gravity> Optimally via a key-combo.
2168 [17:15:59] <rant> no_gravity: if you use lightdm and
light-locker they have their own commands
2169 [17:16:08] <no_gravity> jhutchins_wk: I use Mate.
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2172 [17:16:14] <mawk> yes I get that but if you really want
idling for power reasons then just sleep
2173 [17:16:23] <mawk> anything else keeps the cpu awake
2174 [17:16:26] <mawk> there's no idling
2175 [17:16:27] <no_gravity> "sleep"?
2176 [17:16:31] *** Quits: a_l_b (~a_l_b@replaced-ip ) (Quit: a_l_b)
2177 [17:16:36] <rant> no_gravity: its a low power cpu state
2178 [17:16:41] <rant> !sleep
2179 [17:16:41] <dpkg> somebody said sleep was for wimpy organic
beings. Or, sleep is probably a poor substitute for coffee or for
mortals or for the weak or the glory of the cowards and the
un-caffeinateds. :-) or the activity of choice for the intelligent
person or time which could be spent hacking the planet.. or ..
whatever .. ZZzzzz ... fsck: warning: /dev/brain has gone countless
hours without being checked. Check forced. zZZzzzz... *zonk*
2180 [17:16:45] <mawk> yes, it's called sleep in most OSs
2181 [17:16:46] <rant> heh
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2183 [17:16:54] <rant> that was useless
2184 [17:16:58] <mawk> lol
2185 [17:17:07] <rant> but there are pm commands for that
2186 [17:17:14] <greycat> not to be confused with sleep(1) I
presume
2187 [17:17:21] <mawk> yeah
2188 [17:17:48] <mawk> well in a single process OS with realtime
priority and single core proc sleep() will really halt the processor
2189 [17:17:54] <mawk> but you don't do that often
2190 [17:17:57] <no_gravity> What is "sleep"?
2191 [17:18:03] <rant> like sudo pm-suspend
2192 [17:18:03] <mawk> rant said it
2193 [17:18:07] <mawk> it's a low power state
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2195 [17:18:20] <mawk> like shutdown but the computer can resume
immediately
2196 [17:18:25] <mawk> with all your windows still open
2197 [17:18:26] <rant> no_gravity: its literally a execution state
of the cpu.. puts most all hardware to sleep mostly just keeps the
ram powered
2198 [17:18:32] <no_gravity> I would think the laptop does that
when it's idle for a while.
2199 [17:18:33] <johnjay> mawk: it's !Jeb! but for your
computer
2200 [17:18:48] <rant> no_gravity: where a hibernate copies cpu
and ram state to disk and powers off completely
2201 [17:18:54] <mawk> I don't get it johnjay :(
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2204 [17:20:03] <rant> during a hibernate, upon next boot, which
will start out like any boot, bios->bootloader->kernel the
kernel will find the state file in swap and load it and resume where
it left off, during hibernate no power is used
2205 [17:20:22] *** Quits: JimmySteve (~JimmyStev@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2206 [17:20:28] <mawk> we call that extended sleep in french
2207 [17:20:33] <mawk> veille prolongée
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2210 [17:21:30] <rant> sleep/suspend on the other hand is more an
energy star compliance mode where power consumption is reduced to
like 90+ percent off, disks are parked, radios are off, displays are
in dpms sleep, mostly just ram is still powered because the state is
stored in ram rather than written to disk
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2212 [17:22:19] <mawk> funny thing is that at boot the BIOS
configures hard drives so that you don't have access to
advanced features like extended secure erase
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2214 [17:22:26] <rant> you can also simulate such yourself using
rfkill for radios, hdparm -Y for disks, and xset dpms commands for
displays
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2216 [17:22:45] <mawk> but since sleep powers down drive you can
sleep and wake and the drive is reconfigured, and you can do the
advanced stuff
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2222 [17:23:28] <rant> but man pm-suspend and related pages
explain all this
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2225 [17:23:46] <mawk> it's a processor power state also rant
I think
2226 [17:23:52] <mawk> lowered voltage maybe
2227 [17:24:03] <rant> yes it is
2228 [17:24:54] <rant> c-states S1-S4 are "waking
states" and S5 is shutdown
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2231 [17:25:58] <rant>
replaced-url
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2243 [17:30:11] <rant> more detailed explaination
replaced-url
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2261 [17:37:26] <no_gravity> Hmm.. I think I will just do nothing
and let the laptop figure out on its own, that it is idle.
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2266 [17:38:57] <juko> hi all
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2270 [17:41:44] <annadane> hi juko
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2272 [17:42:50] <dob1> are UUID in fstab real uniques for every pc
?
2273 [17:42:59] *** Quits: naicha (~debian@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
2274 [17:43:05] <rant> no
2275 [17:43:12] <dob1> I mean can I put an hdd on another pc, just
copy the fstab line from the old pc and mount it again?
2276 [17:43:19] <dob1> ah..
2277 [17:43:22] <rant> yes
2278 [17:43:33] <dob1> yes or no?
2279 [17:43:33] <rant> they are unique to each filesystem
2280 [17:43:34] <jelly> dob1: they're generated with that
intent, and it's VERY unlikely you'll find a duplicate
2281 [17:43:46] <rant> dob1: you asked two different questions :P
2282 [17:43:47] *** Quits: maelcum (~horst@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2283 [17:43:52] <dob1> so I just need to change the mountpoint and
I am ok?
2284 [17:44:00] <rant> the answer to the first is no, the answer
to the 2nd is yes
2285 [17:44:21] <dob1> rant, the first one was a bad question :)
2286 [17:44:40] <dob1> because I am trying to move a /home
partition
2287 [17:44:47] *** Joins: bltzfsck (~bill@replaced-ip )
2288 [17:44:55] <rant> dob1: try the commands lsblk to see then
things like blkid /dev/sda1
2289 [17:45:09] <rant> dob1: you can also label them to make it
easier than using UUID
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2292 [17:45:12] <dob1> I will overmount it on my new home and then
I hope to fix uid gid
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2295 [17:45:30] <rant> tune2fs -L myhome /dev/sda5
2296 [17:45:45] <rant> then just use LABEL=myhome /home ext4
defaults 0 1
2297 [17:46:18] *** Joins: slack_ (~slack@replaced-ip )
2298 [17:47:15] <dob1> I would like to copy the line from the old
pc
2299 [17:47:19] *** Quits: llucenic (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2300 [17:47:21] <dob1> into the new fstab
2301 [17:47:32] *** Quits: HarveyPwca (~HarveyPwc@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2302 [17:47:32] <dob1> comment out the actual home, and I am done
(I hope)
2303 [17:47:33] *** Quits: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2304 [17:48:03] <rant> as long as the filesystem is the same, the
uuid will be the same..
2305 [17:48:28] <rant> but labels are much easier to work with and
can be added after the fact with that tune2fs command
2306 [17:48:54] <dob1> how does the label know the partition?
2307 [17:49:01] *** Joins: stoel (~stoel@replaced-ip )
2308 [17:49:22] <rant> the label and uuid are part of the
filesystem
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2310 [17:49:31] <dob1> hmm
2311 [17:49:36] <rant> the system probes all disks/partitions
looking for them
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2315 [17:50:52] <rant> technically the partitions have uuid too
but its the FS uuid used in things like fstab
2316 [17:51:06] <dob1> rant, now wait you put in fstab
LABEL=myhome /home ext4 defaults 0 1
2317 [17:51:16] <dob1> this is correct?
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2319 [17:51:37] <dob1> who know myhome is /dev/something?
2320 [17:51:50] <dob1> I miss this part :)
2321 [17:51:56] *** Quits: gibu (~simon@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
2322 [17:52:03] <rant> dob1: assuming you've tune2fs -L
myhome /dev/something on an ext4 partition that has what you want to
be /home
2323 [17:52:09] <dob1> ah
2324 [17:52:20] <rant> you have to set the label on the filesystem
with tune2fs
2325 [17:52:33] *** Quits: retpoline (~retpoline@replaced-ip ) (Quit: bye)
2326 [17:52:48] <rant> as I said before see also the lsblk and
blkid commands
2327 [17:52:49] <dob1> you are "marking" the filesystem?
2328 [17:53:00] <rant> yes..
2329 [17:53:19] <dob1> if there are more partition with the same
label?
2330 [17:53:21] <rant> this is what tune2fs does, it sets various
options of an ext2/3/4 filesystem
2331 [17:53:31] <rant> then you have a problem.. heh.
2332 [17:53:57] <rant> it'll be no more effective than old
dev names.. it'll be a first come first serve in the probe
2333 [17:54:11] <dob1> I can run this command tune2fs on the old
pc, get the hdd on the new pc
2334 [17:54:13] <rant> but since the labels are user defined by
the admin..
2335 [17:54:19] <dob1> and mount it with the label in fstab?
2336 [17:54:26] <rant> thats the idea
2337 [17:54:39] <rant> labels are more user-friendly than UUID
which are long and hard to recognize/remember
2338 [17:54:52] <rant> you can give your fs labels you recognize
2339 [17:54:56] <dob1> and If I want to view/remove it?
2340 [17:55:13] <rant> do I have to say lsblk and blkid again?
2341 [17:55:22] <rant> or tune2fs -L
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2343 [17:55:34] <dob1> tune2fs is just to assign a label?
2344 [17:55:52] <rant> 11:53 rant> this is what tune2fs does,
it sets various options of an ext2/3/4 filesystem
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2346 [17:56:09] <rant> it sets all sorts of things, the reserve,
etc
2347 [17:56:29] <rant> all the settings it manipulates always
exist.. they are part of the filesystem
2348 [17:56:36] <rant> all partitions have labels.. they are just
blank
2349 [17:56:46] <rant> just like they all have uuid
2350 [17:57:03] <rant> and setting a label doesnt remove the uuid
2351 [17:57:16] <dob1> ok stupid question, I have 2 partition with
label foobar, and in fstab I mount one by label and the other one by
uuid, this is ok I suppose
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2355 [17:58:08] <rant> any given fs could be identified by its
device name(s) /dev/sda1 /dev/disk-by-uuid/abcd-1234-defg-5678 or
its LABEL=mylabel or UUID=abcd-1234-defg-5678
2356 [17:58:42] <rant> no.. if you give two partition the same
label its same as relying on old /dev/sda1 kinda names
2357 [17:58:50] <rant> its whatever one the kernel sees first in a
probe
2358 [17:59:05] <rant> this is why we invented UUID and LABLES to
avoid this
2359 [17:59:19] <rant> you're suppose to be smart enough to
not user define two fs with the same label
2360 [17:59:40] <rant> unlike the UUID, labels are user defined..
UUID are auto-generated
2361 [17:59:43] <dob1> rant, but I said that I mount one by label
and one by uuid, this still can cause problems?
2362 [17:59:59] <rant> yes because its PROBING to find them
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2364 [18:00:15] <rant> if it probes the one you called by uuid
first, it already knows its labelled foobar
2365 [18:00:24] *** Joins: v01t (~v01t@replaced-ip )
2366 [18:00:25] <rant> so when you say foobar, it'll say.. oh
.. here is foobar
2367 [18:00:27] *** Quits: redbrain (~oliver@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2368 [18:00:32] <rant> wont bother looking any further
2369 [18:00:43] *** Parts: stoel (~stoel@replaced-ip ) ()
2370 [18:00:45] <rant> things are always in the last place you
look :P
2371 [18:00:57] <rant> unless you're just crazy.. then you
keep looking for em after you found em
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2373 [18:01:37] <dob1> ok but the first entry is by uuid so I
mount it, why I have to check which label this fs has?
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2376 [18:02:05] <rant> idk.. what difference does it make.. just
don't do it :P
2377 [18:02:05] <dob1> so it continue it founds the one by label
(that it's a different partition) and it mount it
2378 [18:02:27] <rant> the whole point is UUID was created to
avoid the probing issues..
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2380 [18:02:43] <dob1> I like the label idea but for sure I will
make confusion
2381 [18:03:03] <rant> now /dev/sda1 might be your first sata disk
with your rootfs.. if you put in a thumbdrive sda1 may be that thumb
drive
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2384 [18:03:27] <rant> but uuid will always be unique
2385 [18:03:40] *** Quits: Itaipu (~itaipu@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2386 [18:03:45] <rant> however this had a flaw.. they're long
and difficult to recognize and type for people
2387 [18:03:52] <jelly> unless you clone the whole disks /
partitions
2388 [18:03:53] <rant> so they also made the label..
2389 [18:04:15] <dob1> rant, sorry rant but maybe I miss a point.
I have my partition with label myhome. on another pc I have another
hdd with a partion named myhome too
2390 [18:04:17] <rant> yes which is why I've stressed the
uuid that matters in these cases is PART OF THE FS :P
2391 [18:04:34] <dob1> I get the hdd from the other pc and brint
it to the first one. can I mount this partition on the first pc?
2392 [18:04:40] <dob1> *bring
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2394 [18:04:54] <jelly> you can mount anything anywhere regardless
of uuid or label
2395 [18:05:00] <jelly> just be careful :-)
2396 [18:05:14] <rant> dob1: if you take out the other hdd that is
called the same thing, then yeah..
2397 [18:05:17] *** Quits: nbags (~nbags@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2398 [18:05:22] <jelly> to mount the right thing. uuid helps
figure out the right thing.
2399 [18:05:25] <rant> if you dont, who knows which one it'll
mount
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2403 [18:06:11] <greycat> udev^H^H^H^H the shadow knows!
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2406 [18:06:34] <dob1> ok but when I asked: I have 2 partitions
with label foobar. in fstab I mount the first one by label and the
second one by uuid. you said this can't work
2407 [18:06:46] <greycat> You MUST NOT have two partitions with
the same label.
2408 [18:06:49] <greycat> Stop doing that.
2409 [18:07:00] <dob1> greycat, In different hdd
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2411 [18:07:35] <rant> what part of the whole reason for UUID and
Labels is because the system probes down the bus do you not
understand?
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2414 [18:08:05] <greycat> Putting the same label on two file
systems that can both be attached at the same time would be a
DISASTER.
2415 [18:08:06] <jelly> dob1: if there is more than one filesystem
with same LABEL= you can't know which one will get mounted
based on label.
2416 [18:08:17] <rant> in legacy times before this, it probed down
the IDE bus said ok.. I found a drive.. I'll call this hda,
wow, heres another I'll call this hdb..
2417 [18:08:23] <dob1> infact I said in fast one by label , one by
uuid
2418 [18:08:28] <dob1> *fstab
2419 [18:08:36] <greycat> Stop doing silly things.
2420 [18:08:37] <rant> this was a problem because the bus and how
its probed isnt reliable.. wont always be the same
2421 [18:08:58] <jelly> dob1: it does not matter, you might still
get any of the two mounted with LABEL=
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2423 [18:09:34] <jelly> if they have same labels, and you want to
mount them automatically, then the safe way if not to use labels to
determine mounts at all
2424 [18:09:37] <dob1> I think I am no explaining it in the
correct way. no problem thanks anyway
2425 [18:09:42] <rant> dob1: the disk will always have a device, a
uuid, and a label
2426 [18:09:54] *** Joins: gator-fate (~perturb-c@replaced-ip )
2427 [18:10:00] <dob1> it's my bad english, sorry guys
2428 [18:10:05] <rant> dob1: it doesnt matter which ones you use
in fstab.. the system is still going to probe the bus at boot
2429 [18:10:25] <jelly> dob1: change the fstab to use UUID instead
of the clashing label _before_ plugging in the old disk.
2430 [18:10:30] <rant> and its going to show exactly what you see
if you type lsblk and blkid like I said 3 times before
2431 [18:11:21] <dob1> ok I think I got it at the end :)
2432 [18:12:27] <dob1> you have a lot of patience :)
2433 [18:12:52] <jelly> patience is a useful trait when doing
support
2434 [18:13:26] *** Quits: Makaveli7 (~Makaveli7@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.4)
2435 [18:13:30] <EdePopede> create the mountpoints, throw them
into fstab together with the UUIDs and then forget about those.
2436 [18:13:35] <rant> there was a time when I wasn't sure..
but you set my mind at ease.. there is no doubt your in my heart now
2437 [18:13:41] <rant> :P
2438 [18:13:49] * rant whistles
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2440 [18:14:11] <dob1> doing my partitioning I forget to create a
/boot partition. years ago it was suggested to create one. It
doesn't matter nowadays?
2441 [18:14:40] <annadane> for efi i think you need one/
2442 [18:14:42] <annadane> ?
2443 [18:14:47] <dob1> I am not on efi
2444 [18:14:53] <rant> you need a ESP partition for efi
2445 [18:15:03] <rant> its so advanced it took us back
2446 [18:15:07] *** Joins: Bx6a616d6573 (~Bx6a616d6@replaced-ip )
2447 [18:15:12] <rant> like gnome3 did
2448 [18:15:16] *** Joins: krukudilo (~krukudilo@replaced-ip )
2449 [18:15:22] <dob1> It was years ago, people told me to create
it ext2 for journaling problems or whatever
2450 [18:15:28] <jelly> it's useful if you want to have LVM
and/or encryption on the same disk
2451 [18:15:33] <dob1> but I think it's not used anymore
2452 [18:15:44] <rant> yes I have a /boot because my / is on an
encrypted lvm
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2456 [18:16:30] <dob1> ok I forget /boot, I don't want to
reinstall...
2457 [18:16:33] *** Quits: Bx6a616d6573 (~Bx6a616d6@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
2458 [18:16:39] <jelly> grub2 can deal with /boot on ext4 (and
more complex setups) now, but if you want to be able to keep using
grub-legacy you can still have ext2 or ext3 on the separate /boot
2459 [18:16:41] <greycat> if your system boots, don't mess
with it
2460 [18:17:02] <dob1> it was at lilo years
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2462 [18:17:09] <jelly> it's probably easier to do recovery
with a live usb now, instead of grub prompt.
2463 [18:17:37] <rant> I never did understand grub's prompt
:P and I liked lilo's simplistic config
2464 [18:18:02] <jelly> grub-legacy had a quite useful console
2465 [18:18:02] *** Joins: Bx6a616d6573 (~Bx6a616d6@replaced-ip )
2466 [18:18:33] <jelly> grub2 is an overengineered PoS...oftware
2467 [18:19:49] <EdePopede> btw, i've seen recently that on
the live disc legacy and uefi use different boot screens?
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2470 [18:21:59] <jhutchins_wk1> EdePopede: I would expect that
what you're seeing is coming from the hardware.
2471 [18:22:06] *** Joins: kiasan (~kia@replaced-ip )
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2474 [18:23:54] <jelly> I don't even know what defualt debian
live looks like, always use grml.org instead
2475 [18:24:03] <jhutchins_wk1> EdePopede: (By hardware I mean
whatever is pre-bootloader.
2476 [18:24:30] <EdePopede> jhutchins_wk1: hardware? erm. i looked
through the PC's usb boot options for the very first time it
seems. one entry with 2 children for legacy and uefi boot. and the
uefi version being different and the only one allowing me to change
the boot parameters (unless it isn't 'c' in the
legacy version)
2477 [18:26:11] * Old_Dog is logging off to spend some time trying to
get a little work done. have a nice day everyone.
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2488 [18:31:32] <GNU\colossus> grml is amazing
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2494 [18:35:54] <jelly> it's almost perfect, expect zsh uses
vi keybindings instead of emacs
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2509 [18:40:28] <echoSMILE> is this entry correct at "crontab
-e" "0 * * * * /bin/command" ?
2510 [18:40:59] <greycat> it is syntactically valid
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2512 [18:41:07] <greycat> whether it does what you want depends on
what you think it does
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2517 [18:42:23] <annadane>
replaced-url
2518 [18:42:32] <annadane> has a nice visual representation
2519 [18:42:34] <greycat> "man 5 crontab"
2520 [18:42:39] <annadane> (aka i'm too lazy to read man
ages)
2521 [18:42:41] <annadane> pages
2522 [18:42:43] <greycat> has a nice textual representation
2523 [18:42:50] <echoSMILE> weird, the command is not executed at
that minute
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2526 [18:43:07] <greycat> how do you know?
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2554 [18:53:17] <annadane> you have your hypothetical command
running every hour at 0 minutes
2555 [18:53:25] <echoSMILE> greycat hum. Ok, I have a small bash
script that creates a file and works from cron. but other bash
script doesn't
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2557 [18:53:30] <annadane> and you sent your message a 12:42 my
time
2558 [18:53:32] <annadane> at*
2559 [18:53:59] <greycat> echoSMILE: check the logs first to see
if it ran, if there were errors, etc. Check the owner's email
to see if any output/stderr was mailed.
2560 [18:54:45] *** Joins: Achylles (~Achylles@replaced-ip )
2561 [18:54:52] <echoSMILE> greycat in which log file is that
logged?
2562 [18:55:13] *** Quits: Secret-Fire (~Secret-Fi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2563 [18:55:27] <greycat> grep CRON /var/log/syslog is one of the
places
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2566 [18:56:52] <echoSMILE> (CRON) info (No MTA installed,
discarding output)
2567 [18:57:29] <greycat> I do not agree with the decision to
remove the dependency on a mail-transport-agent to have cron
installed, but I didn't get a vote.
2568 [18:58:00] <echoSMILE> but the command is executed anyway
right?
2569 [18:58:07] <greycat> How can you tell?
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2576 [19:00:20] <greycat> If you can't or won't install
an MTA, I would recommend adding redirections on each command to
send output/stderr to a log file.
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2582 [19:03:30] <echoSMILE> greycat and "...command >
/dev/null" ?
2583 [19:03:39] <greycat> that's the exact opposite of what
you want
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2585 [19:03:56] <greycat> you want to SEE the output and errors so
you can figure out why it didn't "work"
2586 [19:04:16] <echoSMILE> oh. you mean to debug. sure
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2588 [19:05:14] <greycat> In the long term, you should install an
MTA, and make sure the job only writes output/stderr that you want
to see.
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2591 [19:05:49] <tachikomas> any great command line email client
that support imap ?
2592 [19:06:01] <greycat> if you mean terminal, mutt
2593 [19:06:16] <greycat> if you literally mean command line I
don't *know* of any except mh and I've never used mh
2594 [19:06:26] <tachikomas> i do, i will take a look into mutt
then
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2596 [19:07:27] <tachikomas> thanks
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2598 [19:10:13] <echoSMILE> greycat well, the bash script is
executed because he create a file, no output generated, and commands
inside that bash script wasn't executed (some iptables rules)
2599 [19:10:17] <karlpinc> I _think_ one of those mailx or mail or
bsd-mail packages will do command line email reading, but mutt is
better. I think. You can always just use less on the file where the
mail goes, or some editor, if all you want is to read.
2600 [19:10:17] *** Joins: t0x-Avgr (~t0x@replaced-ip )
2601 [19:11:07] * karlpinc remembers that emacs has a mail mode
2602 [19:11:08] <greycat> s-nail has IMAP in its man page, if that
helps
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2604 [19:12:21] <jhutchins_wk> (al)pine
2605 [19:12:42] <karlpinc> I did use emacs for a while as my mail
client. The only problem was "office document"
attachments, so I eventually used something GUI.
2606 [19:12:44] <phazon> emacs has an everything-mode :-)
2607 [19:13:08] <jhutchins_wk> emacs space shuttle launch command
mode.
2608 [19:13:20] <karlpinc> jhutchins_wk: Right. Didn't pine
itself eventually lose support, or something? So now there's a
replacment? (alpine?)
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2611 [19:13:37] <jhutchins_wk> karlpinc: I think it's a
license issue.
2612 [19:13:41] <greycat> pine is non-free
2613 [19:13:47] <karlpinc> Right, that is what it was.
2614 [19:13:54] <greycat> the editor from pine, pico, was cloned
as nano
2615 [19:14:03] <jhutchins_wk> I never did figure out mutt's
configuration.
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2617 [19:14:07] <galaxie> jhutchins_wk: We should inform Elon Musk
the proper way to launch space ships :P
2618 [19:14:17] <greycat> mutt has a LOT of configuration options;
I only know a tiny subset
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2620 [19:14:50] <galaxie> I only use the ones that were
immediately useful to me, same thing as Emacs and every other big
software package for that matter.
2621 [19:14:51] * karlpinc is using emacs for irc right now
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2626 [19:17:49] <annadane> still trying to decide if i should just
use 25 wich stretch or compile 26
2627 [19:17:54] <annadane> with stretch*
2628 [19:17:55] <maxxe> hi
2629 [19:18:02] <annadane> hi
2630 [19:18:05] <maxxe> :)
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2651 [19:26:12] <morf> hello friends
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2654 [19:26:58] <morf> stupid question if you know the answer
pls... how much is debian unstable rolling compared to arch pls? (no
trolling) ... is it like real rolling or more like trying to keep
stable versions for more stable versions?
2655 [19:27:13] <greycat> !rolling
2656 [19:27:13] <dpkg> Testing is not a rolling release in the
strict sense of the word. It is a test platform, currently codenamed
<buster>. It is part of the Debian development process and is
gradually being built into the next <stable>. Please go to
#debian-next on irc.debian.org for support. See <moving
target>.
2657 [19:27:52] <morf> so yeah... thanks greycat :) still
inventory of #debian? :))
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2659 [19:27:57] <morf> nice to see you ;)
2660 [19:28:53] <morf> also ... any "lucky" debian user
@ gemini pda? any experience?
2661 [19:29:02] <indomitable> gemini pda?
2662 [19:29:28] <morf>
replaced-url
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2664 [19:29:40] <morf> this thing ... it has "official"
debian version
2665 [19:29:42] <indomitable> that looks expensive as shit
2666 [19:29:42] <indomitable> lol
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2668 [19:29:47] <morf> yeah :(
2669 [19:29:56] <morf> but it's nice toy (for me) ...
2670 [19:30:05] <morf> hate mobile phones, want "pocket
computer"
2671 [19:30:34] <indomitable> I would definitely buy that if I had
spare cash floating around and free time to mess with it
2672 [19:30:42] <indomitable> but that's like 5 fully kitted
raspberry pis
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2674 [19:31:01] <indomitable> that reminds me I should order some
IR cameras
2675 [19:31:58] <morf> hm yeah sure ... that's what i think
2676 [19:32:12] <morf> but too much work, too little time...
didn't even flash it yet
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2731 [20:06:38] <echoSMILE> greycat at bash script, the command
need the complete path -_-'
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2739 [20:08:27] <greycat> the PATH provided to cron jobs is just
/usr/bin:/bin according to crontab(5)
2740 [20:09:04] <greycat> if your script relies on commands
outside of those directories, you'll have to act accordingly,
often by setting PATH to something longer inside the script
2741 [20:09:57] <morf> have fun
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2743 [20:10:11] <echoSMILE> I need for sure a intensive shell
scripting course
2744 [20:10:14] <echoSMILE> ty
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2783 [20:31:01] <lisbeths> How can I find the email of the
developer of this package:
replaced-url
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2785 [20:31:39] <greycat> lisbeths: apt-cache show expect | grep
^Maintainer
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2791 [20:35:38] <DarreDevyll> anyone by chance know how to get
brave on parrot os? I have no idea what I'm doing here
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2793 [20:36:08] <dax> !parrot
2794 [20:36:08] <dpkg> Parrot OS (replaced-url
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2798 [20:37:18] <DarreDevyll> thanks for the help. I'll check
there
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2809 [20:41:51] <jhutchins_wk1> Full paths are almost always a
good idea.
2810 [20:42:01] <Kobaz> having a really weird issue.... every so
often when waking up my monitors, DisplayPort-0 is blank
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2815 [20:43:51] <greycat> jhutchins_wk1: Disagree. For standard
commands, a full path should NOT be given, because those move around
from system to system. It's better to set the PATH variable to
include all the places they may live.
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2817 [20:44:11] <Kobaz> i then do: xrandr --output DisplayPort-0
--mode 1680x1050; sleep 1; xrandr --output DisplayPort-0 --mode
1920x1080
2818 [20:44:15] <Kobaz> and then my monitor is back online
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2833 [20:52:58] <indomitable> what is xrandr
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2909 [21:39:15] <Guest65> lively ... eh?
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2913 [21:44:44] <Guest65> anyone know how to do the SASL thing?
2914 [21:45:20] <greycat> if you're talking about some
Freenode auth thing, better to ask #freenode
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2918 [21:46:07] <qqz> I have an eeepc 4g with Debian 9 testing but
the battery monitor of matchbox fails to display the battery state
2919 [21:46:07] *** Joins: relaxed (~relaxed@replaced-ip )
2920 [21:46:18] <qqz> installing upower alone has not resolved the
problem
2921 [21:46:25] <qqz> is there anything else missing?
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2926 [21:48:06] <humpled> is it shown in
/sys/class/power_supply/BAT0 or similar?
2927 [21:49:18] *** Joins: hypn0 (~h@replaced-ip )
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2929 [21:51:22] <qqz> yews /sys/class/power_supply/BAT0/status
says full
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2931 [21:52:00] <qqz> and besides this another question: I have no
shutdown or logout button in matchbox; how can I add one?
2932 [21:52:40] *** Quits: ae-35 (~ae-35@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2933 [21:52:53] <humpled> what panel is it? wouldn't you
rather just use the power button?
2934 [21:53:26] <qqz> I haven´t tried this; normally there
is a software shutdown option for gracfeul shutdown
2935 [21:53:38] <humpled> sure,
2936 [21:53:44] <qqz> it should shutdown via the window manager
not via init 0
2937 [21:53:52] <humpled> and i always link the hardware button to
it because i'm lazy
2938 [21:54:55] <hypn0> is matchbox lighter than openbox?
2939 [21:55:26] <qqz> no but it is said to have a more feature
rich application menu
2940 [21:55:40] <qqz> does openbox also have an application menu;
perhaps I should try it
2941 [21:55:53] *** Quits: silentjet (~jet@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2942 [21:56:44] <hypn0> you can add one I guess, but normally you
have to add manually, there is a gui
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2949 [21:59:40] <qqz> hypn0: what is the console command to shut
down gracefully via the window manager?
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2951 [22:01:16] <Guest65> ? as root? shutdown [how] -r [reboot] -h
[hard] when like NOW
2952 [22:01:45] <qqz> I believe that does not go via the window
manager
2953 [22:01:47] <humpled> you could try ls /usr/bin | grep -i
"matchbox" to see if there are some relevant commands
there
2954 [22:01:50] <qqz> it should be possible as user
2955 [22:01:57] <hypn0> shutdown now
2956 [22:02:16] <humpled> not many people have used matchbox qqz
2957 [22:02:21] <hypn0> is there a panel?
2958 [22:02:40] <hypn0> or do you have to install one?
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2960 [22:03:05] <qqz> it should be the same for any desktop
environment
2961 [22:03:19] <qqz> I remember there was something like kcmctl
logout 0 0
2962 [22:03:28] <hypn0> there is halt, poweroff too
2963 [22:03:36] <qqz> but there should be a generic wmctl utility
to do that
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2968 [22:04:21] <Guest65> kicker ?
2969 [22:04:41] <hypn0> in opennbox we use tint2 panel
2970 [22:05:10] <hypn0> you can use others
2971 [22:05:17] <qqz> I have tint
2972 [22:06:09] *** Joins: Scorpion2185 (~quassel@replaced-ip )
2973 [22:06:26] <Scorpion2185> Hi
2974 [22:06:27] <hypn0> do you have to add applets or something
2975 [22:06:32] <qqz> ahh systemctl
2976 [22:06:48] <Scorpion2185> Can i install nvidia driver from
sid? i am on debian 9 stable
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2979 [22:09:05] <qqz> but my other question was how to make the
battery display work
2980 [22:09:12] <qqz> installing upower is not sufficient
2981 [22:09:27] <Guest65> qqz app gkrellm
2982 [22:10:09] <qqz> and can I use the matchbox plugin as well?
2983 [22:10:19] <qqz> I guess it misses some support
infrastructure
2984 [22:10:21] *** Quits: Ericounet (~Eric@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2985 [22:10:27] <Guest65> i dont know matchbox
2986 [22:10:47] <Scorpion2185> Can i install nvidia driver from
sid? i am on debian 9 stable
2987 [22:10:58] <Guest65> 2185 why?
2988 [22:11:30] <Scorpion2185> dxvk
2989 [22:11:35] <Scorpion2185> needs 418 at lest
2990 [22:12:13] *** Quits: tryte (~tryte@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2991 [22:12:18] <Scorpion2185> direct x to vulkan
2992 [22:13:11] *** Quits: kein31 (~root@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2993 [22:13:47] <greycat> ,v xserver-xorg-video-nvidia
2994 [22:13:48] <judd> Package: xserver-xorg-video-nvidia on amd64
-- jessie/non-free: 340.106-1; stretch/non-free: 390.87-8~deb9u1;
stretch-proposed-updates/non-free: 390.116-1; buster/non-free:
410.104-3; sid/non-free: 418.56-2
2995 [22:14:07] <greycat> ,checkbackport xserver-xorg-video-nvidia
2996 [22:14:08] <judd> Backporting package
xserver-xorg-video-nvidia in sid→stretch/amd64: unsatisfiable
build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 12).
2997 [22:14:22] <Scorpion2185> Can I install it form sid?
2998 [22:14:23] <greycat> Questionable. I'm not smart enough
for it.
2999 [22:14:25] <greycat> No.
3000 [22:14:44] <greycat> You definitely cannot install the sid
package. The question is whether you can install a BACKPORT of the
package, and that I do not know.
3001 [22:15:22] <greycat> I'll also point out in passing that
the version you covet won't even be in buster.
3002 [22:15:24] *** Joins: tremon (~aschuring@replaced-ip )
3003 [22:15:46] *** Quits: flokuehn (~flokuehn@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3004 [22:16:10] <greycat> ,checkbackport xserver-xorg-video-nvidia
--torelease buster
3005 [22:16:12] <judd> Backporting package
xserver-xorg-video-nvidia in sid→buster/amd64: unsatisfiable
build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (= 12).
3006 [22:16:16] <greycat> O_o
3007 [22:16:19] *** Joins: uberwag (~fred@replaced-ip )
3008 [22:16:22] <greycat> dayum
3009 [22:16:47] <qqz> which gkrellm plugin will I need?
3010 [22:17:01] <Scorpion2185> I checked that packcage is only in
sid not evene in buster
3011 [22:17:14] <Scorpion2185> can someone backported it?
3012 [22:17:16] <qqz> I think the one it offers is thinkpad
specific
3013 [22:17:19] <greycat> Again, the thing I was checking was
whether it is POSSIBLE to BACKPORT the thing from sid to buster.
3014 [22:17:19] <Guest65> gkrellm plugins are in the app
3015 [22:17:37] <uberwag> hi, if i want to get e-mail
notifications from my little debian vps (mainly for unattended auto
updates), i install bsd-mailx package? does this need any further
configuration? is this the easiest solution? i have no experience
with this
3016 [22:17:48] <greycat> And the bot's answer is "Not
easily, at least."
3017 [22:18:01] *** Quits: Guest66 (~textual@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3018 [22:18:12] <greycat> uberwag: you need a mail transport agent
(MTA)
3019 [22:18:31] <greycat> mailx just injects messages into the
MTA's queue for processing
3020 [22:18:48] <Guest65> sendmail works
3021 [22:19:00] <jhutchins_wk1> Is exim still the default MTA?
3022 [22:19:03] <greycat> exim4, postfix, sendmail, many other
choices
3023 [22:19:07] <greycat> yes, jhutchins_wk1
3024 [22:19:42] <uberwag> greycat: ok and what MTA is easiest to
use you think?
3025 [22:19:55] <greycat> whichever one you already know
3026 [22:20:00] <uberwag> i read postfix configuration is not
easy?
3027 [22:20:08] <uberwag> greycat: i have no experience
3028 [22:20:15] <Scorpion2185> What happen if i download and
install from sid the 418 drivers?
3029 [22:20:22] <greycat> !don't break debian
3030 [22:20:22] <dpkg> methinks dont break debian is
replaced-url
3031 [22:20:44] *** Joins: Brawcks (~vincentco@replaced-ip )
3032 [22:21:04] <greycat> the short answer is you won't be
ABLE to install them without bringing in many, many more
dependencies from sid
3033 [22:21:09] *** Joins: Itaipu (~itaipu@replaced-ip )
3034 [22:21:11] <jmcnaught> uberwag: you just need a null mailer,
take a look at msmtp-mta, it's pretty easy. "aptitude
search ~Pmail-transport-agent" to see the available options
3035 [22:21:29] <greycat> A null mailer only works if you have a
smarthost you can route all your outgoing mail through.
3036 [22:21:41] <Scorpion2185> ok so I must upgrade to sid to
buster is not enough?
3037 [22:22:00] <uberwag> graycat, jmcnaught: i just want
notifications to end up in my gmail really
3038 [22:22:01] <greycat> Scorpion2185: *I* personally do not
know. You need someone with direct experience backporting nvidia
drivers.
3039 [22:22:25] <greycat> uberwag: well, exim4 is the default, so
try that and see how it goes.
3040 [22:23:01] <Scorpion2185> uhm ok thanks, I will ask on the
debian forum
3041 [22:23:08] *** Quits: dr_gonzo (~dr_gonzo_@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3042 [22:23:38] <uberwag> greycat: ok will give that a shot
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3045 [22:25:04] *** Quits: Envil (~envil@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3046 [22:25:05] *** Quits: Brawcks (~vincentco@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3047 [22:25:07] <uberwag> is having such an MTA on your server
creating any security risks for the server?
3048 [22:25:19] <jhutchins_wk1> Actually, debconf makes exim4
pretty easy.
3049 [22:25:35] <greycat> if you configure it ONLY for outgoing,
and do not listen for incoming, then it's hard to see how it
could be a security issue
3050 [22:25:36] *** Quits: Tenkawa (~Tenkawa@replaced-ip ) (Quit: leaving)
3051 [22:25:51] <jhutchins_wk1> (Then again, I hand-wrote my own
sendmail.cfg, so I may not be a good judge.)
3052 [22:26:05] <uberwag> greycat: true, so i must make sure
it's only for sending out, ok
3053 [22:26:08] *** Joins: boku (~boku@replaced-ip )
3054 [22:26:54] <greycat> that's what you said you wanted
3055 [22:27:07] <greycat> it's not even clear whether you
HAVE a domain name
3056 [22:27:17] <greycat> and without a domain name, you will not
be receiving mail
3057 [22:27:17] *** Joins: JohnA (~john@replaced-ip )
3058 [22:27:28] <uberwag> greycat: yes that is what i wanted, only
for sending notifications from the server to my gmail
3059 [22:27:38] <uberwag> i was just confirming it really
3060 [22:27:42] <Guest65> no FQDN you aint getting mail [ i dont
think ]
3061 [22:28:07] <jhutchins_wk1> uberwag: You might have some
trouble getting gmail to accept mail from a non-registered
non-commercial source.
3062 [22:28:34] <greycat> we'd need more detail
3063 [22:28:54] *** Quits: astrofog (~astrofog@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3064 [22:30:21] <Guest65> spf davm mail checkers they look
3065 [22:30:26] <uberwag> well i installed unattended-upgrades on
the vps, but in case this goes wrong, it can send notifications to
an e-mail address
3066 [22:30:31] *** Joins: dab21 (~dab21@replaced-ip )
3067 [22:30:36] *** Quits: DeadTOm (~deadtom@replaced-ip ) (Quit: DeadTOm)
3068 [22:30:47] <uberwag> i would like to use my gmail for that,
so i can always see these notifications
3069 [22:30:56] *** Joins: JerryS (~Jerry@replaced-ip )
3070 [22:31:09] *** Quits: qqz (~elm@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
3071 [22:31:52] *** Joins: silentjet (~jet@replaced-ip )
3072 [22:32:21] <uberwag>
replaced-url
3073 [22:32:25] <uberwag> like that
3074 [22:32:44] <JerryS> I hope someone can help me here. I'm
trying to install debian-9.8.0-amd64-netinst.iso on a USB stick
under VirtualBox (Windows). I get to the point where it is
installing the base system and have a failure trying to install the
busybox package.
3075 [22:32:56] <Guest65> ya could do a cron
3076 [22:32:57] <uberwag> so in this tutorial it just says i need
to install bsd-mailx but nothing else really
3077 [22:33:04] <JerryS> I've seen some old hits on this, but
nothing relatively recent with a fix. Has anyone seen this?
3078 [22:33:12] *** Quits: humpled (~humbag@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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3081 [22:34:01] <uberwag> Guest65: yes but i think the package
already use a cron to send those notifications out
3082 [22:34:06] <greycat> ,depends bsd-mailx
3083 [22:34:07] <judd> Package bsd-mailx in stretch/amd64 --
depends: base-files (>= 2.2.0), default-mta |
mail-transport-agent, libbsd0 (>= 0.2.0), libc6 (>= 2.17),
liblockfile1 (>= 1.0).
3084 [22:34:28] <JohnA> Any advise on a "good" simple
backup system for a family server. I have just put it server back on
its feet, after discovering that the back system/program I had been
using did not work. Suggestions?
3085 [22:34:36] *** Quits: zleap (~zleap@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.4)
3086 [22:34:36] <greycat> Installing bsd-mailx will also install
an MTA due to the dependencies, unless your VPS already *has* one.
3087 [22:34:50] <uberwag> greycat: ah ok
3088 [22:34:57] <uberwag> but then i need to configure that right?
3089 [22:35:00] <digdilem> JohnA, backup-manager is simple and
works well. backuppc is good for multiple machines
3090 [22:35:05] <greycat> uberwag: probably.
3091 [22:35:15] <uberwag> it won't just be able to send to my
gmail without config i guess
3092 [22:35:21] <uberwag> i can test I guess
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3097 [22:38:36] *** Joins: OS-47856 (~OS-47856@replaced-ip )
3098 [22:38:47] <jhutchins_wk1> uberwag: I think those
instructions are probably intended to send mail to a local user, not
a remote account.
3099 [22:39:09] <greycat> outgoing mail's not really complex
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3102 [22:39:55] <greycat> what really matters is whether the
recipient will be willing to accept mail from you, and that's
usually a matter of your DNS being configured correctly, which
basically boils down to "my domain name -- did I set it up
correctly"
3103 [22:40:06] <greycat> which in turn boils down to "I have
a domain name"
3104 [22:40:13] <Guest65> sendmail mailx can send to a remote
account
3105 [22:40:26] <greycat> if you don't have a domain name,
then it's questionable what you are even doing on a VPS
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3110 [22:42:41] <uberwag> guest65: ok, will also have a look at
sendmail
3111 [22:42:50] *** Quits: Scorpion2185 (~quassel@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ##replaced-url
3112 [22:42:54] <greycat> I don't recommend sendmail as a
first MTA
3113 [22:43:31] <greycat> on a difficulty scale from 1 to 10,
sendmail's a 13
3114 [22:43:40] <uberwag> well i can also check the logs
regularly, but i rather have e-mail notifications
3115 [22:44:07] <Guest65> i dont recall doing anything to send
mail
3116 [22:44:49] <greycat> if you have a domain name and your
server is configured as a host within that domain and DNS is all set
up forward/backward, then the defaults probably Just Worked
3117 [22:44:52] *** Joins: sh00p (~z@replaced-ip )
3118 [22:45:10] *** Quits: GaneshR (~ganeshraj@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
3119 [22:45:14] *** Joins: krukudilo (~krukudilo@replaced-ip )
3120 [22:45:26] <Guest65> i do get mail rejected for not having a
FQDN
3121 [22:45:32] *** Quits: JerryS (~Jerry@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3122 [22:45:34] <greycat> I've dropped strong hints like half
a dozen times now and not once has uberwag stepped forward to say
"Oh, I have a domain name, it's ___ and my server is
____"
3123 [22:45:49] <uberwag> greycat: i dont have domain name
3124 [22:46:05] <greycat> then how do you contact your VPS
3125 [22:46:06] <jhutchins_wk1> blackvpn from the ukrane,
he's not likely to give much detail.
3126 [22:46:24] <Guest65> dude it should be *you*.VPS.com
3127 [22:46:32] <greycat> type the IP address in by hand every
time?
3128 [22:46:36] *** Quits: karakedi (~eAC53C340@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3129 [22:47:03] *** Quits: mklvr (mklvr@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3130 [22:47:10] *** Joins: runlevel7 (~runlevel7@replaced-ip )
3131 [22:47:35] <uberwag> greycat: i mean, the server maybe have a
default domain from the hosting
3132 [22:47:39] <uberwag> but i have not purchased a domain
3133 [22:47:43] *** Joins: humpled (~humbag@replaced-ip )
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3136 [22:48:41] *** Joins: dastier (~dastier@replaced-ip )
3137 [22:49:07] <uberwag> Guest65: yes it will probably be some
domain like that, like 14-131-21-1.vps.com
3138 [22:49:34] <greycat> Well, you need to put some name on your
email saying who it's from.
3139 [22:49:49] <greycat> the recipient (gmail) may or may not
care about that
3140 [22:49:55] *** Joins: wathek (~wathek@replaced-ip )
3141 [22:50:06] <Guest65> gmail will care
3142 [22:50:06] <uberwag> ok
3143 [22:50:14] <greycat> as years go by and the world is more and
more attacked by spam, more and more people care.
3144 [22:51:51] *** Quits: Adran (adran@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Este é o fim.)
3145 [22:52:33] *** Quits: jmarsac (~jmarsac@replaced-ip##) (Quit: Nettalk6 - ##replaced-url
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3148 [22:53:07] *** Joins: Adran (~adran@replaced-ip )
3149 [22:53:28] <greycat> As the sender, you are basically putting
two pieces of information on each outgoing message: your hostname
(HELO), and an email address of the person sending the mail (MAIL
FROM).
3150 [22:54:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1542
3151 [22:54:19] *** Quits: krukudilo (~krukudilo@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3152 [22:54:51] *** Quits: sputnik (kli0rf@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3153 [22:54:59] <greycat> *Most* recipient will do a DNS lookup on
your IP address and compare that against your HELO string (usually
also doing a DNS lookup of the HELO string, sometimes even
attempting to contact the MTA assigned to your domain name).
3154 [22:55:12] *** Quits: cfoch (uid153227@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
3155 [22:55:24] <greycat> So, ideally your HELO string should
match up with your IP address.
3156 [22:56:06] *** Joins: hermande (~hermande3@replaced-ip )
3157 [22:56:15] <uberwag> ok i understand it better, so you need a
trustworthy domain, so the receiving mailserver can check if the
message is coming from where it says it's coming from
3158 [22:56:55] <Guest65> yes
3159 [22:57:30] *** Quits: jhutchins_wk1 (~jonathan@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Lost terminal)
3160 [22:57:49] *** Quits: wytchmaster (~wytchmast@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3161 [22:58:01] <uberwag> that also basically means that it is not
very easy to setup a mail notification for alerts on your server, i
mean, i don't need a domain, i don't really need e-mail
functionality, but i just think e-mail alerts are better than
trusting me to regularly check the server :)
3162 [22:58:29] <greycat> I'm still wondering what your
server *does*, if it doesn't even have a name.
3163 [22:58:48] <greycat> Obviously not a web server.
3164 [22:59:05] <greycat> Definitely not (yet) a mail server.
3165 [22:59:08] *** Joins: wytchmaster (~wytchmast@replaced-ip )
3166 [22:59:13] *** Joins: sputnik (kli0rf@replaced-ip )
3167 [22:59:39] *** Joins: oish (~charlie@replaced-ip )
3168 [22:59:40] <uberwag> greycat: no it's not a webserver,
it runs some scripts only for now
3169 [23:00:07] *** Joins: STMelon (~STMelon@replaced-ip )
3170 [23:00:40] <uberwag> when i was following the tutorial how to
setup unattended auto updates for debian, it included sending e-mail
notifications for when the process fails
3171 [23:00:42] *** Quits: patterson (~patterson@replaced-ip ) ()
3172 [23:01:03] <uberwag> that brought me here
3173 [23:01:11] <greycat> that's because most people's
servers have names, and setting up email is not difficult if your
server has a name
3174 [23:01:19] <uberwag> i understand
3175 [23:01:55] <Guest65> wtf is its hostname
3176 [23:02:08] <uberwag> Guest65: debian :)
3177 [23:02:24] <Guest65> no .local or anything?
3178 [23:03:19] <greycat> the whole thing may be moot if his
secretive Ukrainian VPS service is blacklisted as a spammer, which
is sounding more and more likely the longer this goes on
3179 [23:03:19] <uberwag> no..
3180 [23:03:30] <Guest65> and the hostname for the VPS is
3181 [23:04:12] *** Quits: bionade24 (~oskar@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
3182 [23:04:46] <uberwag> greycat: it's nothing like that,
why people take offense here if you use a vpn? that's really
weird
3183 [23:04:48] *** Quits: NetTerminalGene (~NetTermin@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
3184 [23:05:21] *** Joins: woenx (~whoenx@replaced-ip )
3185 [23:05:23] <uberwag> the vpn has nothing to do with my
question about a normal vps that just running some python scripts,
it's a little vps, with 512mb ram, nothing fancy, i just never
have had any domain connected to it
3186 [23:05:49] <greycat> is your VPN's public endpoint
213.155.31.59 the same IP address as your server?
3187 [23:06:12] <uberwag> greycat: no
3188 [23:06:26] <uberwag> totally unrelated
3189 [23:07:25] <greycat> well, good luck.
3190 [23:07:27] *** Quits: greycat (~wooledg@replaced-ip ) (Quit: They see me clawin' the love seat / They won't
do nothin' 'cause I'm cute and furry)
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3195 [23:08:40] <Guest65> debian.nodomain.com aint getting mail
from remote
3196 [23:08:46] *** Joins: sdcdeep_ (~Morph4me2@replaced-ip )
3197 [23:09:12] <uberwag> Guest65: but i dont need to get mail
from remote.. the vps just needs to send notifications out
3198 [23:09:17] <uberwag> of things that happen on the server
3199 [23:09:26] <uberwag> such as the auto updates
3200 [23:09:27] <Guest65> to who?
3201 [23:09:33] *** Parts: sdcdeep_ (~Morph4me2@replaced-ip ) ()
3202 [23:09:39] <uberwag> to any e-mail of mine, but preferably my
gmail
3203 [23:10:05] *** Quits: sh00p (~z@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
3204 [23:10:11] <uberwag> as in this article:
replaced-url
3205 [23:10:14] <Guest65> mailx to you at gmail then... see if it
works
3206 [23:10:32] *** Quits: mnemonic (~semeion@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
3207 [23:10:57] *** Quits: uniqdom (~uniqdom@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
3208 [23:11:01] <uberwag> ok, you suggest i just install mailx and
then try from command line?
3209 [23:11:04] *** Joins: bionade24 (~oskar@replaced-ip )
3210 [23:11:09] *** Joins: mnemonic (~semeion@replaced-ip )
3211 [23:11:19] <Guest65> yes with a MTA
3212 [23:11:23] <Guest65> also
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3263 [23:37:49] <ws2k3> did debian replace nagios with icinga in
the repository in debian 9 ?
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3275 [23:51:00] <rant> ws2k3: would appear so.. there is icinga
and icinga2 and some nagios plugins but I dont see any nagios
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3286 [23:59:06] <rant> ,v nagios3
3287 [23:59:07] <judd> Package: nagios3 on amd64 -- jessie:
3.5.1.dfsg-2+b1; jessie-security: 3.5.1.dfsg-2+deb8u1
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3289 [23:59:26] <jmcnaught>
replaced-url
3290 [23:59:27] <judd> Bug
replaced-url
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3292 [23:59:54] <rant> thats odd cause p.d.o showed it in sid
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