People who Joins , Parts or Quits a chatroom
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2021-06-01)
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3 [00:02:19] <nyov> not a real issue for me, I guess. I like
building frankendebians. and if I have to install tomcat from devuan
now, grabbing xtables from testing is really no trouble :p
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9 [00:04:31] <somiaj> I think you are overusing frakendebians,
if you follow sane methods, you can install thrid party stuff just
fine.
10 [00:04:45] <somiaj> Building a package against the libs on
your system is one method of being sane.
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18 [00:09:22] <nyov> I guess I could just rebuild the package
locally, true. But if the provided package is just fine, just on
another release branch or distribution - why not use it? that way I
keep track of available updates also
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20 [00:10:34] <somiaj> I usually avoid recommending that option
as it requires checking dependencies to make sure they are still
satsified for the version
21 [00:10:47] <somiaj> my basis suggestion is, if package X is
not built for buster, rebuild it for buster (vs just use it).
22 [00:11:25] <somiaj> Provided dependencies are met, you
don't have to rebuild (though you could find underlying issues
due to libary differences that may have not been caught with the
dependecies)
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31 [00:18:01] <nyov> well, I don't recommend it to
non-experts. and I check before I mix, and the approach is only
really possible thanks to the power of aptitude gui I guess. but it
works surprisingly hassle-free for me
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34 [00:18:14] <nyov> (unlike on rpm distributions)
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36 [00:19:02] <Whyvn> What changes do I have to do for my
resolvconf to have 127.0.0.1 as the namerserver?
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50 [00:24:29] <Whyvn> nvm, installing resolvconf, and starting
the bind9-resolvconf command did it
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169 [01:55:06] <copynub> hey guys, can anyone help me with the
correct rsync command to copy my entire local / and essentially
overwrite my remote vm? (kinda like a snapshot restore type thing?)
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172 [01:57:59] <hht__py> what do you want? backup your entire
system?
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174 [01:58:30] <copynub> yeah
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208 [02:26:04] <ryouma> something like copynub: --archive
--hard-links --sparse --acls --xattrs --one-file-system
209 [02:26:16] <ryouma> and --delete --delete-excluded if youw
ant that
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241 [02:58:29] <ryouma> i just ran across a proprietary language
learning chat exchange thing for cell phones. is there anything for
debian that would hook into such a thing, or that does anything
similar? (interested in general in ja tools.)
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267 [03:22:59] * ComputerTech pops in
268 [03:23:09] * dvs blocks the doors
269 [03:23:09] <ComputerTech> what is this channel about?
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271 [03:23:26] <dvs> !debian
272 [03:23:26] <dpkg> well, debian is
replaced-url
273 [03:24:14] <ComputerTech> hmm can this channel be used to
chat and make friends?
274 [03:24:27] <dvs> nope
275 [03:24:34] <dvs> !debian-offtopic
276 [03:24:48] <ComputerTech> ah man
277 [03:24:49] <ComputerTech> bye
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279 [03:25:03] <dvs> !next
280 [03:25:03] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
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288 [03:38:17] <hht__py> that's google's concept: leave
it ASAP.
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372 [05:05:13] <CrazyTux>
replaced-url
373 [05:05:19] <CrazyTux> please comment on this..
374 [05:05:59] <annadane> yeah, no.
375 [05:06:53] *** Quits: conyers (~conyers@replaced-ip ) (Quit: ZZZzzz…)
376 [05:07:42] <CrazyTux>
replaced-url
377 [05:08:04] <CrazyTux> I am a casual end user. I need to know
more about this.
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382 [05:12:03] <themill> CrazyTux: It's junk. "I have
10 apples, you have 9 oranges, I'm better".
383 [05:12:50] <annadane> from briefly skimming the article it
seems to be "many vulnerabilities reported in debian = debian
is insecure" when the reality is closer to "many
vulnerabilities reported = vulnerabilities fixed +
transparency"
384 [05:12:56] <annadane> debian has a pretty decent reputation
385 [05:13:23] <CrazyTux> themill, what do you mean? You need to
give some technical explanation about what is said in that article.
You can't dismiss it a junk.
386 [05:13:41] <CrazyTux> annadane, ok
387 [05:13:45] *** Joins: koniu (~koniu@replaced-ip )
388 [05:13:52] <CrazyTux> please elaborate on that.
389 [05:16:11] <annadane> i mean, debian is open source, it means
more eyes on what can go wrong, the bug reporting process is
transparent and the bug reports are open to anyone
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392 [05:17:50] <annadane> debian is *perhaps* not quite as secure
as OpenBSD, but then what is
393 [05:18:14] <annadane> they're the extremists, not
necessarily meant in a bad way
394 [05:18:15] <themill> CrazyTux: one is talking about an
operating system, the other is talking about an operating system
plus 30000 user applications.
395 [05:18:28] *** Joins: koniu (~koniu@replaced-ip )
396 [05:19:00] <themill> Also, "casual end user" is the
opposite of demanding a "technical explanation"
397 [05:19:05] *** Quits: donofrio (~donofrio@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
398 [05:19:10] <annadane> openssl had/has a difficult to maintain
codebase, openbsd stripped it out and replaced it wtth libressl...
they're probably the most secure of anything, but it's not
like debian is particularly easy to exploit either
399 [05:19:33] *** Quits: mr_machina (~user@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
400 [05:19:36] <annadane> it has its reputation for a reason
401 [05:19:56] <ryouma> of the major linux distros, is debian
likely the most secure?
402 [05:20:00] <epony> other than that, there is little base for
comparison between the two operating systems
403 [05:20:27] <epony> apples and oranges, they are round and
compute stuff sometimes
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406 [05:22:19] <ryouma> you have to choose on some basis
407 [05:22:58] <ryouma> i'm guessing those who want a
community distro that is linux and is secure would put debian pretty
high up there. would it be at the top pretty much?
408 [05:23:07] <ryouma> (not talking about specialized distros)
409 [05:23:48] <annadane> i think so yes
410 [05:23:50] <epony> ryouma, there are good reasons for this
411 [05:24:14] <ryouma> i think debian was first major distro to
have signign
412 [05:24:20] <ryouma> not sure
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414 [05:24:20] <epony> security team and vulnerability tracking
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416 [05:24:47] <epony> is more important in my opinion
417 [05:24:51] *** Joins: k4nz (~Mark@replaced-ip )
418 [05:25:23] <epony> you can't compensate for large number
of users and viewing developers any other way but with large number
of.. (repeat same sentence)
419 [05:26:17] <annadane> people can take a gander at
replaced-url
420 [05:26:37] <ryouma> also, i think many die-hard long-term
floss-contributor bug-reporting users of debian are kind of picky
about stuff (compliment)
421 [05:26:56] <epony> it's probably a good recommendation
to gradually and carefully tweak up measures of security and
mitigations against baseline vulnerabilities in the system one at a
time carefully in the default installation so you benefit from this
large live testing group (it would be very useful to the wide range
of Linux users out there from other distributions too)
422 [05:27:17] <annadane> debian does have a better historical
reputation than mint/manjaro and slackware is run basically by one
person whereas debian has what, 1000 official developers, so...
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425 [05:29:25] <annadane> plus whatever comfort you can derive
from using debian stable intentionally for older versions of
software which in theory are less likely to be exploited compared to
the shifting goalposts of newer software
426 [05:29:30] <annadane> but that's sort of incidental
427 [05:29:40] <ryouma> i cant tell from
replaced-url
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429 [05:30:01] <epony> stable and secure are orthogonal
430 [05:30:49] *** adikt- is now known as adikt
431 [05:31:12] <annadane> i forget, does orthogonal mean less
likely to be connected or more likely?
432 [05:31:33] <epony> at 90° angle
433 [05:31:44] <annadane> right but i don't get the analogy
so to speak
434 [05:31:55] <epony> different directions
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436 [05:32:02] <epony> not necessarily connected
437 [05:32:06] <annadane> so you're saying stable is not
secure
438 [05:32:16] <annadane> or rather that it's different
priorities?
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440 [05:32:18] <ryouma> less
441 [05:32:48] <ryouma> 2 knobs like etch-a-sketch, not like
screwy knobs connected
442 [05:33:02] <ryouma> but idk if it's true
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444 [05:34:24] <epony> in Linux distributions like Debian it is
less likely to be insecure probably stable is kept with quite a
significant backporting effort
445 [05:34:43] <annadane> on the whole i'd trust Stable to
be more secure than anything but the main point for most users
(servers aside) is just to avoid unnecessary updates constantly
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447 [05:35:06] <annadane> introduce new stuff only when required
as opposed to everything; less overall hassle
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449 [05:35:48] <annadane> although yes security-wise, you can
really nail down individual packages so you know your version of
gimp or whatever is a known quantity
450 [05:36:06] *** Quits: CrazyTux (~S@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
451 [05:36:58] <annadane> there are bugs but the bugs are known
bugs rather than new bugs that come with new versions of stuff
452 [05:37:54] <TuxCrazy> are rolling release distros like
manjaro better than fixed release distros, in this respect?
453 [05:38:13] *** Quits: cupcake90 (~cupcake90@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
454 [05:38:17] <themill> no
455 [05:38:21] <epony> depends on the devs involved in the
"rolling" compared to "stable"
456 [05:38:56] <TuxCrazy> epony, what about manjaro?
457 [05:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1501
458 [05:39:23] <epony> I hope you would share the details ;-)
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460 [05:40:53] <epony> how many developers does it have.. and of
them how many security experts, and of them how many working on
actively patching the kernel and packages
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465 [05:45:18] <annadane> also,
replaced-url
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468 [05:48:54] <ryouma> i use stable but i find i fear
dist-upgrades. if upgrades occastionally area problem, the flip side
is that upgrades all at once is a lot all at once.
469 [05:49:22] <ryouma> everything that breaks breaks at once
470 [05:50:04] <annadane> YMMV i guess
471 [05:50:20] <annadane> i'm a little apprehensive about
nvidia because i don't know if i'll need to use the legacy
packages as of bullseye or not
472 [05:50:44] <epony> I can share the info that I use OpenBSD
-current via snapshot to snapshot binary upgrades of the OS and
packages, and it has proven the best user experience so far (of
course, with watching the system ChangeLog and relevant mailing
lists)
473 [05:51:05] *** Quits: xcm (~xcm@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
474 [05:51:26] <epony> so, you might need to start tracking the
lists and announcements and changelogs to fear less upgrades and
updates
475 [05:51:39] <TuxCrazy> epony, I don't have any idea about
how many devs manjaro has.
476 [05:51:41] <epony> (it's a similar process regardless of
the distribution and software model)
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478 [05:52:22] <ryouma> i don't fear updates because those
are tiny for me
479 [05:52:32] <ryouma> oops i mean upgrades
480 [05:52:37] <ryouma> vis-a-vis dist-upgrades
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482 [05:53:19] <annadane> it's definitely something to
prepare for in advance
483 [05:53:26] <annadane> then hopefully stuff goes smoothly
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486 [05:56:44] <annadane> or wait until x.1
487 [05:57:10] <annadane> but i mean, it's also 2 years in
the making
488 [05:57:18] <annadane> most stuff will probably Just Work
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493 [06:10:42] <epony> if you want details related to comparisons
with OpenBSD, let me know and say how a certain aspects is in
Debian, and I'll match that with the OpenBSD process and
related details
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495 [06:12:40] <epony> the major differences are that there are
lot of mitigations in the default setup which are non optional and
everyone is using them and running the system live effetively
testing these
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498 [06:13:29] <epony> and the development model is tracking the
HEAD and only maintenance (security) backports for the critical
issues for the last two releases (every 6 months like clockwork)
499 [06:14:06] <epony> so the snapshots are just continuous
production releases of the HEAD with all packages compiled from
ports
500 [06:14:54] <epony> thus, it's much closer to the rolling
release model (while it is not a rolling model) but a twice yearly
releases (fixed in time snapshots)
501 [06:16:30] <karlpinc> epony: Trouble with OpenBSD is that
ports don't tend to get security fixes except for the latest
stable release. And figuring out what ports need to be updated
involves tracking the mailing list and filtering out tons of junk.
And then you often need to compile your own port after that....
502 [06:16:39] <epony> The point of the system is to have correct
process and correct code, thus security comes as an after effect
with the code correctness and measures to clamp software of the
system and ports (third party addon software) with these
"mitigations"
503 [06:18:04] <epony> well actually the security fixes in ports
come from upstream developers (the authors of the original software)
that get notified by port maintainers so OpenBSD helps the third
party software become security aware as a result of these measures
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506 [06:19:18] <epony> so ports get only latest versions in
-current (tracks HEAD) and only there, if you run release
you're stuck with 6 months old software until you upgrade (and
only critical ports and packages get backported to release versions)
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508 [06:20:03] <karlpinc> epony: But this is offtopic for debian
support. You can move to #debian-offtopic....
509 [06:20:05] <epony> there is not much to figure, but upgrade
weekly / monthly or every 6 months (if you run releases)
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511 [06:21:36] <karlpinc> !security backports
512 [06:21:36] <dpkg> Debian incorporates security fixes into the
version currently in <stable>. This is non-trivial so it may
take a couple days. Backporting security fixes means that you can
update the package without problems like changed behaviour that
would come with updating to a new version of the software. The
upstream version number doesn't change in the Debian package
when this is done; check the changelog or the <tracker of
doom>.
513 [06:21:45] <epony> of course, just the process is different
so it's quite unlikely that comparisons for
"security" are applicable between both systems (that also
differ on the software included and the model of development)
514 [06:22:53] <epony> and the sizes of developer groups, maybe
only the engagement level is similar
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573 [07:22:53] <usney> I enabled ftp for apt how do I disable it?
574 [07:23:12] <usney> I noticed that the repo mirrors that use
ftp don't use ftps
575 [07:23:24] <usney> so I manually added https mirror
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578 [07:28:28] <themill> usney: the protocols that are used are
the ones you specified in your /etc/apt/sources.list or
sources.list.d/*.list.
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580 [07:29:33] <jm_> if you edited that just run apt update
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593 [07:36:56] <usney> yes I now that themill and jm_
594 [07:37:14] <usney> I am talking about how do I disable ftp
after I reenabled it?
595 [07:38:13] <jm_> like we said, edit sources.list files,
remove ftp URL-s (or replace them with https) and run apt update
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599 [07:40:38] <usney> I see
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602 [07:42:20] <usney> Newer versions of APT have disabled FTP
access by default, which is used by some of the mirrors. Re-enable
it:
603 [07:42:20] <usney> apt-config -o Dir::Bin::Methods::ftp=ftp
shell
604 [07:42:27] <usney> how do I undo that?
605 [07:42:31] <Pygriaaf> What is the recommended chat channel?
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608 [07:43:58] <usney> #debian-offtopic Pygriaaf
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610 [07:45:12] <Pygriaaf> Thank you.
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618 [07:52:55] <jm_> usney: if I run that command I don't
see it changing anything, does «apt-config dump» show it
as being set?
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625 [07:57:41] <themill> if you've got no ftp URLs in your
source.list, ftp is not used; nothing to do
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627 [07:58:05] <jm_> yeah I would just do that and don't
bother with apt-config
628 [07:58:26] <usney> I just did a grep ftp pipe and it
didn't come up jm_
629 [07:58:44] <usney> yes I have no ftp urls in my source.list
630 [07:58:50] <jm_> then you're all good
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632 [07:59:11] <usney> thank you
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635 [07:59:26] <jm_> no worries
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641 [08:02:30] <usney> Is there a way to install apt packages
with dependencies to a flash drive to be able to run on any linux
os?
642 [08:02:42] <usney> or should I try appimage?
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645 [08:06:28] <jm_> usney: check if apt-zip or apt-offline can
help
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647 [08:07:22] <jm_> forget about apt-zip :)
648 [08:07:45] <usney> what about apt-offline?
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650 [08:07:54] <jm_> ahh no, I misunderstood - yeah, those tools
will not help with your problem
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653 [08:09:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1509
654 [08:09:28] <jm_> yeah just look at tools that can convert
debs to appimg or snap files
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659 [08:12:39] <usney> okay cool you can use snap on debian too?
jm_
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662 [08:15:17] <jm_> usney: yes, apt-cache show snapd
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670 [08:18:42] <_Fremen_> hello everyone
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672 [08:19:03] <_Fremen_> how I do fix UNCLAIMED graphics card?
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675 [08:21:06] <jm_> _Fremen_: what is the exact problem?
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685 [08:23:30] <_Fremen_> jm_, I have dell inspiron 15 7577 and
it has Nvidia Primus technology. I am having problems with using
dual monitor setup and I tried nearly every solution online and even
broke my installation and had to reinstall
686 [08:24:22] <jm_> !bumblebee
687 [08:24:22] <dpkg> The Bumblebee project aims to provide
support for the Nvidia Optimus GPU switching technology on Linux
systems. GeForce 400M (4xxM) and later mobile GPU series are
Optimus-enabled; if «lspci -nn | grep
'\[030[02]\]'» returns two lines, the laptop likely
uses Optimus. Packaged for Debian <jessie> and <stretch>
and <buster> and <bullseye>.
replaced-url
688 [08:24:27] <jm_> _Fremen_: tried the above?
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691 [08:25:27] <_Fremen_> jm_, installed it and did not make a
difference
692 [08:25:49] <jm_> _Fremen_: installed accrding to the wiki?
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694 [08:26:40] <_Fremen_> jm_, no will try that now
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704 [08:31:41] <acu> !paste
705 [08:31:42] <dpkg> Do not paste more than 2 lines to this
channel. Instead, use for text:
replaced-url
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723 [08:50:51] <raver> > acu hat geschrieben:
724 [08:50:51] <raver> > !paste
725 [08:50:51] <raver> ```
726 [08:50:51] <raver> echo "Hello World" | nc
termbin.com 9999
727 [08:50:51] <raver> ```
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746 [09:01:21] <snake-venom>
replaced-url
747 [09:01:36] <snake-venom> install mariadb issue -
replaced-url
748 [09:01:51] <snake-venom> dont know how to solve :( ..
autoremove and autoclean also not solving this issue
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757 [09:07:26] <ksk> !ubuntu
758 [09:07:26] <dpkg> Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not
Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on
chat.freenode.net instead. Even if the channel happens to be less
helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on
#debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
759 [09:08:39] <ksk> the "remove issue" tells you, that
something else is holding a lock on parts of the package database
(like, a graphical apt-frontend or so?)
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763 [09:14:17] <_Fremen_> hello
764 [09:14:37] <_Fremen_> I tried the following tutorial
replaced-url
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766 [09:15:15] <_Fremen_> still no change I get the following
error:
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769 [09:15:28] <_Fremen_> sudo optirun glxspheres
770 [09:15:28] <_Fremen_> [ 738.189621] [ERROR]Error running
"glxspheres": No such file or directory
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785 [09:25:42] <ratrace> _Fremen_: what's glxspheres?
786 [09:25:59] <ratrace> ,file glxspheres
787 [09:26:04] <judd> No packages in buster/amd64 were found with
that file.
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791 [09:33:07] <_Fremen_> ratrace, it is an example code in
optirun
792 [09:33:15] <_Fremen_> check it by man optirun
793 [09:33:33] <_Fremen_> optirun glxspheres Runs the graphics
demo supplied with Virtual GL.
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795 [09:34:36] <jm_> it's just an example usage,
doesn't look like debian ships glxsphere
796 [09:34:37] <jm_> s
797 [09:34:40] <ratrace> _Fremen_: there's no such file in
any debian package though. did you perhaps want glxgears? it's
in mesa-utils
798 [09:36:24] <_Fremen_> ratrace, ok I still does not have
output on my HDMI port, what should I do next?
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800 [09:38:30] <jaggz> My okular says it's version 1.3.2,
but bugs.kde.org shows they're up at 1.9.x
801 [09:38:44] <ratrace> _Fremen_: sorry no idea, optimus has
always been a huge broken mess on linux.
802 [09:38:48] <jaggz> local policy shows Installed &
candidate: 4:17.12.2-2.2
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805 [09:39:36] <_Fremen_> ratrace, so my only alternative is
installing windows or something?
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807 [09:40:29] <_Fremen_> or does Bumblebee requires more setup?
808 [09:40:54] <themill> jaggz: you're running debian
stable. You don't get new versions of applications within a
stable release.
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810 [09:42:45] <jaggz> themill, how does the local numbering
system work?
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812 [09:43:09] <jaggz> 4:17.12.2-2.2 vs. okular's 1.3.x
through 1.9.x
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814 [09:44:32] <jaggz> and then it appears okular's own
repositories do use this other numbering system.. so okular has two
version numbering systems?? Not sure if that's weird or not
815 [09:44:34] <jaggz>
replaced-url
816 [09:44:54] <jaggz> so debian's using that one possibly,
with the 17.12 in buster
817 [09:47:13] <jaggz> 17.12 matches back in 2018
818 [09:47:51] <ratrace> that's plasma apps versioning. 18.x
is lts, and 19.x is latest upstream, 17.x is in buster
819 [09:48:58] <ratrace> it's most unfortunate huge mess,
alright, with practically three version groups in KDE.
820 [09:49:06] <jaggz> heh
821 [09:49:40] <jaggz> okay.. so what's a relatively stable
way to get some newer versions in here? to go to bullseye?
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824 [09:50:36] <jaggz> without breaking my life
825 [09:50:43] <ratrace> depends on your definition of
"relatively stable" :) you could upgrade to testing, sure,
if you accept the caveats.
826 [09:51:17] <fred__tv> wich installation image for a
celeron64bit ? AMD64 or i386 ?
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828 [09:52:05] <ratrace> fred__tv: amd64 unless you have so
little RAM that 32-bit might be more optimal choice.
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830 [09:53:05] <jaggz> ratrace, yeah.. too much going on right
now.. will save this updating for another month or year :)
831 [09:53:09] <fred__tv> "amd" was misleading as
celeron is intel..... thank you
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835 [09:53:50] <ratrace> fred__tv: yea. amd64 is just a more
popular name for x86_64, but it's x86 alright.
836 [09:54:17] <sedrosken> can I apply the pf patchset to the
linux-source 5.4 package and expect it to work? I know it's got
debian patches already
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838 [09:55:02] <sedrosken> if nothing else, at least
graysky's gcc optimizations patch?
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841 [09:55:27] <ratrace> sedrosken: no idea what pf patchset is,
but in theory if it doesn't change the code that debian patches
changed, it could work.
842 [09:55:53] <ratrace> work = apply all hunks with no conflict
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844 [09:56:00] <sedrosken> hmm, hang on, it seems like all they
do is provide archives of the already-patched kernel source
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846 [09:56:16] <sedrosken> I wonder if I even can find the
patches
847 [09:57:04] <sedrosken> ehh whatever then, just the gcc opts
patch it is
848 [09:58:07] <jaggz> I always feel rude just parting a channel
once I've reached a conclusion [and have no means to offer
anything at the time to other channel members]...
849 [09:58:10] <jaggz> someone free me from that
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851 [09:58:51] <ratrace> jaggz: you're free to go, thanks
for using debian.
852 [09:58:52] <ratrace> !next
853 [09:58:52] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
854 [09:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1516
855 [09:59:12] <jaggz> heh
856 [09:59:48] <jaggz> I need it to be general wisdom that
applies to every channel.. I'll substitute "debian"
with "us".
857 [10:00:39] <jaggz> I've found "/me flees" is a
good balance that seems like it resolves it.
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859 [10:01:09] <jaggz> (technically, "/me fleas" might
actually serve the purpose even better)
860 [10:01:16] <jaggz> okay, later y'all! thanks :)
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903 [10:37:58] <ice9> is it okay to have single ssh key for all
servers in different projects/companies or better to have separate
key for every project?
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906 [10:41:23] <ksk> it is of course better to have more than one
key. If you do not do key-forwarding you are not risk compromising
it though.
907 [10:41:36] <ksk> *you do not risk
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989 [11:45:50] <Yonatan___> What's up?
990 [11:46:00] <Haohmaru> ceiling spiders
991 [11:46:08] <ratrace> little fluffy clouds
992 [11:46:09] <Yonatan___> What's down?
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995 [11:47:30] <Haohmaru> ants chopping up a semi-dead roach
996 [11:47:47] <Haohmaru> <murder.jpg>
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1050 [12:31:40] <rander2> hello
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1063 [12:42:14] <rander2> !fixmbr
1064 [12:42:15] <dpkg> To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your
Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2),
mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ;
mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ;
mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target),
run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub
&& grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue
mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>.
1065 [12:42:25] <rander2> is it correct ?
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1067 [12:43:57] <rander2> I installed another linux distribution
togheder deb10, and its grub is not bootable, the screen remain
black, and alt+Fx dont have any effect
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1075 [12:49:09] <jm_> rander2: if you are looking for a way to
reinstall GRUB, then the above is correct, yes
1076 [12:50:21] <rander2> ok, so I must boot from a deb10 live
with chroot , or it's possible reinstall it from rescue normale
boot ?
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1078 [12:51:16] <rander2> 'cause I installed it from
netinstall, so I could download the large .iso image and burn it in
a usb key
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1084 [12:52:23] <jm_> you can boot with netinst in rescue mode
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1090 [12:55:32] <rander2> jm_, ok, but I must boot from another
.iso , not from the original OS
1091 [12:55:50] <jm_> rander2: yes, that's why I said you can
use debian netinst ISO
1092 [12:55:58] <rander2> this is the central point ?
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1094 [12:56:13] <rander2> ok, thx jm_ very gentle
1095 [12:56:18] <Diks1722> ok
1096 [12:56:24] <Diks1722> hey
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1192 [14:06:25] <LunaLovegood> I dd'd the Debian netinst
image to a USB key and successfully booted the installer on my
diskless computer. Now, is there a way from there to mount a
(currently empty) remote nfs share and point the installer at it for
later pxe/nfsroot boots?
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1211 [14:13:31] <LunaLovegood> I'd thought I could mount
/target and skip the "Partition disks" step, but it looks
like there are no nfs modules with the installer's kernel.
1212 [14:14:05] <LunaLovegood> Guess I'll go back to doing it
with debootstrap.
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1216 [14:16:32] <zatumil> I would expect something called netinst
has options for nfs
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1220 [14:17:17] <LunaLovegood> Nah, it's a minimal size image
to be able to download and install the rest of the system from the
Internet.
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1222 [14:18:26] <zodd_> zatumil, if you are interested in nfs you
will probably want pxe for which you can still use netinst
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1243 [14:27:40] <riverr> How can I install exact node 13.9 version
in debian 9? I dont want to use node version manager
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1245 [14:27:56] <riverr> it install the 13.10.1
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1247 [14:28:11] <jelly> riverr: what's the package name?
1248 [14:28:19] <riverr> jelly, nodejs
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1250 [14:28:45] <jelly> riverr: if you look at "apt-cache
policy nodejs" do you see the desired version as available from
some repo?
1251 [14:28:48] <GNU\colossus> riverr, you can download the static
builds from nodejs.org, unpack that somewhere in /opt/, and symlink
the executable in /usr/local/ - that's what we did to make our
frontend "developers" happy.
1252 [14:29:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1564
1253 [14:29:04] <GNU\colossus> jelly, chances are ~ 0
1254 [14:29:05] <riverr> hmm sounds hard
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1258 [14:30:05] <zatumil> nfsroot is possible, but does
debian-installer install the root filesystem into nfs mount? maybe
there is a different debian-installer available in fai-nfsroot
package?
1259 [14:30:33] <GNU\colossus> riverr, I'd start with
downloading
replaced-url
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1261 [14:31:12] <ratrace> GNU\colossus: no uh...
"containers"? :)
1262 [14:31:40] <riverr>
replaced-url
1263 [14:31:45] <riverr> I used this tutorial
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1265 [14:32:18] <GNU\colossus> ratrace, and worrying about getting
_everything else_ into that container of yours as well? you just
turned your one problem into n+1 problems, with presumably
nontrivial n
1266 [14:32:48] <ratrace> GNU\colossus: you're preaching to
the choir ;)
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1271 [14:35:58] <f8e3> what is this file for: ~/.xprofile (xfce)
1272 [14:37:42] <f8e3> yes:
replaced-url
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1275 [14:38:09] <f8e3> i try so bash is if terminal is started,
but i have no .xprofile for lightdm
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1282 [14:43:26] <f8e3> the doc says: "you also need to tell
ssh about it by adding this to your init script:"
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1284 [14:45:03] <ratrace> f8e3: what are you trying to achieve?
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1292 [14:51:08] <jelly> GNU\colossus: some third (first?) party
repos keep many versions of binary packages available
1293 [14:51:15] <f8e3> ratrace:
replaced-url
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1299 [14:55:02] <f8e3> ratrace: where to place the lines,
.xprofile is only for xsessions, what if i use tty1 instead
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1301 [14:55:25] <bacarrdy> Hello, any one tryed to create raid10
with 4x nvme u2 ssd drives? was reading today a lot and seems that
dell raid cards doesnt support it or something like it. So thinking
or software raid could help in this case or may be there is raid
cards for nvme raid?
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1307 [14:59:27] <zodd_> riverr, upgrade to deb10 if possible. Next
consider:
replaced-url
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1314 [15:00:28] <riverr> zodd_, whats the main differences in
debian 10?
1315 [15:00:31] <riverr> or how its better
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1318 [15:02:44] <ratrace> bacarrdy: I don't see why it
wouldn't work. the drives don't know they're in raid
configuration, if you use software raid like mdadm
1319 [15:02:59] <zodd_> deb10 is the current stable release.
Debian is by default old, but more robust than most Linux distros.
Basicallt deb9 is years behind. You will need to upgrade sooner or
later. But now NodeJS comes into the picture where developers want
the latest stuff. Latest with ancient might not mix well. Better to
keep things as close as possibe. So 2 reasons to consider upgrading.
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1321 [15:03:44] <greycat> I don't understand why people
develop in a language that is still a moving target. It must be
horrible.
1322 [15:03:53] <ratrace> f8e3: ~/.xsessionrc probably
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1325 [15:04:28] <zodd_> iirc nodejs is also a rolling release
thingy
1326 [15:04:46] <ratrace> f8e3: ah for tty... well, that's
your shell config then. I don't know what to suggest here, I
never tried to use gpg with ssh, I don't see the point...
1327 [15:04:48] <jelly> one man's horrible is another's
"able to finally use decent language features"
1328 [15:04:57] <zodd_> so by default your setup is not properly
tested...
1329 [15:05:04] <zodd_> lol
1330 [15:05:07] <greycat> jelly: for the next month, until they
break again...
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1332 [15:05:22] <jelly> greycat: if you think node is problematic,
don't take a look at the Rust ecosystem
1333 [15:05:26] <riverr> zodd_, oh
1334 [15:05:32] <zodd_> the classic split between (frontend)
developers and sysadmins
1335 [15:05:33] <ratrace> or an angry dev pulls out a string
padding lib that halfa internet is using, which then breaks halfa
internet.
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1338 [15:05:56] <jelly> greycat: to compile rust x + 0.01 you need
a working rustc version x
1339 [15:06:30] <ratrace> zodd_: in my company, the sysadmins won.
I expressly forbid any installation of nodejs. so far so good.
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1347 [15:09:02] <ratrace> problem is stuff that doesn't
really need nodejs but wants it anyway, like the <expletives>
reactjs
1348 [15:09:20] <ratrace> _thankfully_ that's needed only on
developers workstations and doesn't concern my servers.
1349 [15:09:43] <zodd_> it remains a classic :-)
replaced-url
1350 [15:10:09] <ratrace> I'm a BofH indeed :)
1351 [15:10:10] <greycat> Blocked. :(
1352 [15:11:24] <greycat> f8e3: can you repeat your question? I
came in late and only caught parts of it. Also .xprofile is not
standard in Debian, though some desktop environments might use it, I
guess.
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1358 [15:13:32] <f8e3> greycat: i try to follow
replaced-url
1359 [15:14:16] <greycat> Eugh... I don't know a lot about
gpg, especially the apparently totally rewritten-from-scratch gnupg
2.x
1360 [15:15:04] <f8e3> abstraction: where to have bash sourced, if
iam in any environment terminals/users/even-tty0/tty7 ?
1361 [15:15:45] <greycat> But that's a HUGE x-y. You do not
want to run an agent on a remote server that you're sshing
into. Agents should only be running on your trusted,
physically-there-in-front-of-you workstation.
1362 [15:16:08] <greycat> (I'm going by my understanding of
ssh agents, not GPG agents.)
1363 [15:16:38] <f8e3> the agent is local, its only for cache
1364 [15:16:46] <ratrace> my question is really what does gpg
offer here instead of native openssh keys...
1365 [15:17:30] <greycat> that's another great question,
though my first thought is "I'm already using this gpg
agent thing, so if I can make it do double duty, it might simplify
my life", but it sounds like life has not been simplified here
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1369 [15:18:25] <joepublic> "getty pood grivacy"?
1370 [15:18:44] <greycat> GNU Privacy Guard, their version of PGP
1371 [15:19:24] <greycat> and apparently gpg (aka gnupg) v2
rewrote things in a MAJOR way
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1375 [15:20:50] <greycat> So, if we ignore the ssh part entirely
and simplify f8e3's question down to "I want to run the
agent on local console logins and also on *dm logins", you will
need code in ~/.profile or ~/.bash_profile for the console logins.
And then code in ~/.xsessionrc for the *dm logins.
1376 [15:21:10] <f8e3> ratrace: keymgngt, pgp additonal funcs, git
signs with pgp, easier backup, pgp2 is (thank god) a rewrite to ease
use, interaction with ssh gets simpler, especiall: private masterkey
with ssh keys being ssb subkeys only (security), +
replaced-url
1377 [15:21:33] <f8e3> greycat aye thank you will try
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1379 [15:22:18] <greycat> (assuming bash is your login shell -- if
zsh or something else is your login shell, adjust the dot files
accordingly)
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1385 [15:25:28] <ratrace> personally I'd always advocate
separation of concerns. centralizing all key mgmt with just one
suite is asking for a SPOF-related issues, and in some cases even
their roles might contradict.
1386 [15:26:51] <f8e3> ratrace correct, but: rather have the crown
juwels in ONE basket and duplicate it, than disperse the juwels all
over the place (bad track keeping etc)
1387 [15:27:17] <f8e3> the duplicate/backup is the crucial;
overall i assume its more robust
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1389 [15:27:22] <ratrace> f8e3: what about situations where you
want person X to be able to sign git commits but have no ssh access,
or vice versa...
1390 [15:27:41] <f8e3> ratrace you issue another ssb, and easiy
revoke it if compromised simplest
1391 [15:27:54] <f8e3> set expirt and all the funky stuff.
1392 [15:28:25] <ratrace> I'm not talking about that, but
about separation of roles.
1393 [15:28:51] <f8e3> ratrace you can have as many identies as
you want (keyrings primarys subs etc)
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1397 [15:30:06] <f8e3> gpg web-of-trust is a big FAIL due hassle,
and trusting others to sign so their trust increses local width of
trusted keys forming a 'web thing', bah, otherwise good
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1408 [15:34:59] <annadane> if i remove myself from a group do i
need to log out for the changes to take effect?
1409 [15:35:04] <greycat> yes
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1459 [16:12:26] <f8e3> greycat:
replaced-url
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1462 [16:12:48] <LunaLovegood> Hello, is it safe to remove the
e2fsprogs and libext2fs2 packages if it's for a diskless
(nfsroot) computer?
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1464 [16:13:03] <greycat> f8e3: you already know the answer,
don't you?
1465 [16:13:19] <f8e3> greycat it does, can you confirm?
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1467 [16:13:39] <greycat> Are you claiming that the things you
placed in ~/.profile actually WORKED in your GUI login!?
1468 [16:13:57] <greycat> that is not normal. you might have done
something to MAKE that happen, like sourcing ~/.profile from one of
your GUI files
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1470 [16:14:27] <greycat> you might have even FORGOTTEN that you
did it, if it was long ago
1471 [16:14:33] <greycat> or you might not be in Debian
1472 [16:14:35] <f8e3> greycat i defer it from the link posted,
grpahicals OR to sh must be in profile
1473 [16:14:40] <greycat> *sigh*
1474 [16:14:41] <greycat> ..
1475 [16:14:57] <f8e3> where to read up on this
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1477 [16:15:14] <f8e3> man bash maybe ok
1478 [16:15:20] <greycat> Are you reading a RANDOM FUCKING SEARCH
RESULT ON THE INTERNET and ASSUMING THAT IT IS TRUE AND ACCURATE
without testing it? And then asking ME why my answer was what it
was?
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1480 [16:15:54] <somiaj> LunaLovegood: do you really need ths
space claimed by that, one usually shouldn't remove a
'required' package
1481 [16:16:30] <f8e3> greycat your answer is good, will implement
it uff.
1482 [16:18:35] *** Quits: annadane (~annadane@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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1486 [16:20:45] <somiaj> LunaLovegood:
replaced-url
1487 [16:21:50] <LunaLovegood> Yeah, I guess it's just some
OCD kicking in or something lol.
1488 [16:22:26] *** Joins: tcurdt (~tcurdt@replaced-ip )
1489 [16:22:58] *** Quits: Rue (~rue@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Rue)
1490 [16:23:11] <annadane> oh, wow.
1491 [16:23:20] <annadane> i know the wiki gets some criticism but
it also has a lot of good stuff
1492 [16:23:22] <tcurdt> I have unsintalled postgresql but the
service is still listed as failed ... why is that?
1493 [16:23:59] *** Quits: dexta (~D3XTA@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1494 [16:25:08] <annadane> tcurdt, AFAIK services don't
automatically stop after you uninstall a package
1495 [16:25:25] <annadane> i think you have to manually systemctl
stop postgresql.service
1496 [16:25:37] <tcurdt> annadane: I have even rebooted and they
are still there
1497 [16:25:42] <annadane> or hmm, i know that's true for
processes
1498 [16:25:46] <annadane> i don't know, then
1499 [16:26:39] <greycat> tcurdt: what packages did you actually
remove, and what packages did you actually purge? and what packages
remain?
1500 [16:27:09] <greycat> my current guess is you removed some
metapackage that depends on a versioned postgresql package, but you
didn't remove the real (versioned) package
1501 [16:27:23] <annadane> ^
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1503 [16:27:58] *** Joins: sasukeskapa (~sasukeska@replaced-ip )
1504 [16:28:10] <ludo_Vendetta> hello
1505 [16:28:21] *** Joins: ewook (~ewook@replaced-ip )
1506 [16:28:22] *** Joins: luke (~luca@replaced-ip )
1507 [16:28:40] <luke> !fixmbr
1508 [16:28:40] <dpkg> To reinstall <GRUB> boot to your
Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console (Alt-F2),
mount your root filesystem (mount -t ext4 /dev/whatever /target ;
mount --bind /dev /target/dev ; mount -t proc none /target/proc ;
mount -t sysfs none /target/sys), chroot into it (chroot /target),
run "mount /boot/efi" on EFI and "update-grub
&& grub-install /dev/whatever". See also <rescue
mode>, <dual boot guide>, <supergrub>.
1509 [16:28:43] <tcurdt> greycat: apt-get purge
prometheus-nginx-exporter postgresql
1510 [16:28:51] *** luke is now known as Guest5757
1511 [16:29:01] <greycat> !info postgresql
1512 [16:29:05] <greycat> err
1513 [16:29:07] <dpkg> postgresql: (object-relational SQL database
(supported version)), section database, is optional. Version: 12+214
(sid), Packaged size: 61 kB, Installed size: 66 kB
1514 [16:29:08] <Guest5757> on my system I havent /boot/efi
1515 [16:29:13] *** Joins: pie3 (~pieee@replaced-ip )
1516 [16:29:13] <greycat> ,info postgresql
1517 [16:29:15] <judd> Package postgresql (database, optional) in
buster/amd64: object-relational SQL database (supported version).
Version: 11+200+deb10u3; Size: 59.4k; Installed: 64k
1518 [16:29:30] <greycat> Damn, I was hoping for a better
description, but... you see how it's only 64k?
1519 [16:29:34] <Guest5757> so what must I mount instead /boot/efi
1520 [16:29:36] <greycat> ,depends postgresql
1521 [16:29:37] <judd> Package postgresql in buster/amd64 --
depends: postgresql-11.
1522 [16:30:00] <greycat> "postgresql" is a metapackage.
It only exists to depend on "postgresql-11" or some other
versioned packaged.
1523 [16:30:08] <tcurdt> so removing the meta package does the
install but is not enough for the remove?
1524 [16:30:09] <Guest5757> I'm in chroot mode from rescue
usb key
1525 [16:30:32] *** Joins: diogenes_ (~diogenes_@replaced-ip )
1526 [16:30:33] <greycat> it sounds like you also want to remove
postgresql-11 or whatever version exists in your release
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1528 [16:31:08] <ludo_Vendetta> V*
1529 [16:31:19] *** Guest5757 is now known as rander2
1530 [16:31:24] *** Joins: luna_ (~luna@replaced-ip )
1531 [16:31:32] <rander2> hello
1532 [16:31:32] <ratrace> I think removing 'postgresql'
leaves 'postgresql-<version>' as an auto package for
autoremove
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1536 [16:31:57] <ratrace> hrm.... doesn't... nvm what I just
said.
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1539 [16:32:41] <rander2> mount /boot/efi # but I haven't efi
file or folder
1540 [16:32:55] <rander2> maybe dont use uefi in bios
1541 [16:33:00] <annadane> i know that sometimes when i've
uninstalled packages certain *processes* are still left running but
i don't know whether the same is true of services
1542 [16:33:07] <annadane> metapackages vs the packages they point
to aside
1543 [16:33:12] <tcurdt> I did a grep on dpkg and purged all
postgres related ... ot it's ok
1544 [16:33:57] *** Quits: martian67 (~martian67@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ZNC 1.7.2+deb3 - ##replaced-url
1545 [16:34:02] <SanchoPensa> Hey guys!
1546 [16:34:02] <SanchoPensa> As of lately, I am experiencing
weird problems with filezilla. First I thought, it was a problem
with vsftp, but no matter the changes in the config, filezilla keeps
on doing weird things, and according to duck duck go, it is
definitely not vsftp but filzilla:
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1549 [16:34:37] <tcurdt> another package is also a bit strange:
prometheus-nginx-exporter ... purged that ... I don't see
anything left to uninstall ... it's still listed as
"not-found failed failed
prometheus-nginx-exporter.service"
1550 [16:34:40] <SanchoPensa> transfers get stuck at 100% then
some error message of a time out on the command line appears, and
then the transfer starts all over again.
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1554 [16:35:49] <tcurdt> even after a "systemctl
daemon-reload" it's still there
1555 [16:35:58] *** Quits: null1337 (~WhoAmI@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1556 [16:35:58] <SanchoPensa> like infinitely.
1557 [16:35:58] <SanchoPensa> If I abort the download after 100%
the next download produces an error message" Waiting for
replies to skip before sending next command..."
1558 [16:36:25] <SanchoPensa> does anybody happen to know, how to
fix this, since the internet is really not helpful?
1559 [16:36:38] <SanchoPensa> otherwise what ftp clients are you
guys using nowadays?
1560 [16:36:53] *** Joins: earthundead (~earthunde@replaced-ip )
1561 [16:36:54] <greycat> none
1562 [16:37:02] *** Joins: null1337 (~WhoAmI@replaced-ip )
1563 [16:37:28] <SanchoPensa> greycat: scp-Ing or wgetting tons of
files? :D
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1567 [16:38:24] <ratrace> SanchoPensa: Use sftp, not a ftpd
1568 [16:38:27] <greycat> I doubt many people here do massive porn
downloads like that, but if I had to do one, I'd write a shell
loop with wget. Maybe. It would depend on the porn site.
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1572 [16:38:51] <greycat> I can't even *do* FTP. Like,
literally, it does not work through the corporate-type firewall
here.
1573 [16:38:55] <ratrace> SanchoPensa: also, filezilla can do
sftp, including with ssh keys, so definitely do sftp.
1574 [16:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1570
1575 [16:39:43] <SanchoPensa> ratrace: as I said, I am using
vsftp, and both vsftp and filezilla are configured to use a TLS
encrypted line...
1576 [16:40:00] <ratrace> SanchoPensa: vsftp = sftp (openssh FTP)
1577 [16:40:05] <ratrace> vs = very secure
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1579 [16:40:12] <ratrace> oops... vsftp != sftp
1580 [16:40:18] <greycat> it's just a name...
1581 [16:40:33] <ratrace> yes, but vs in vsftp stands for
"very secure". sftp is "SSH FTP"
1582 [16:40:38] <greycat> I have to wonder about the actual
security of a product that names itself "very secure".
1583 [16:40:40] *** Quits: uNmowed (~Kaede@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1584 [16:40:48] <ratrace> vsftp is still a regular FTPd
1585 [16:40:55] *** Quits: P1ersson (~P1ersson@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1586 [16:41:02] *** Quits: MenschZwoNull (~MenschZwo@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1587 [16:41:15] <tcurdt> the prometheus packages leave the service
files behind in /etc/systemd/system/ :-(
1588 [16:41:42] <ratrace> SanchoPensa: also, encryption in FTP is
just for the control channel afaik. does it also encrypt data?
1589 [16:41:48] <tcurdt> or there is something I don't get
about systemd yet
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1591 [16:42:30] <ratrace> tcurdt: packages don't install
systemd files under /etc, but under /lib/systemd. /etc/systemd/ is
local config
1592 [16:42:45] *** Joins: martian67 (~martian67@replaced-ip )
1593 [16:43:01] <tcurdt> ratrace: well, I didn't put them
there :)
1594 [16:43:09] *** Quits: rda_mac (~rda-mac@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
1595 [16:43:37] <ratrace> tcurdt: someone did :) and if your
package did... does the package come from debian or some third party
repo?
1596 [16:43:53] <SanchoPensa> ratrace: greycat: well, I am
enforcing SSL, as far as I know, vsftp has a very good reputation of
being reliable and as a matter of fact also secure.
1597 [16:43:53] <SanchoPensa> And all that is actually not the
issue. The issue is, that filezilla keeps hanging at 100% because it
loses the connection. And that is according to the net not a vsftp
but a filezilla issue.
1598 [16:44:00] *** Quits: alexertech (~xb@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Fades into the darkness)
1599 [16:44:09] <tcurdt> ratrace: AFAIK those are official debian
packages
1600 [16:44:12] <SanchoPensa> I do therefore not quite understand,
why we are now discussing about vsftp?
1601 [16:44:20] <ratrace> tcurdt: `dpkg -L prometheus` will tell
you if it installs them
1602 [16:44:58] <ratrace> SanchoPensa: because you asked what
clients are we using nowadays
1603 [16:45:23] <SanchoPensa> greycat: other than that, I do not
transmit pron, since there is so much of it on the net, that I
simply see no point in it. Other than that not everybody here is a
pimpledick :P
1604 [16:45:31] <ratrace> tcurdt: I forgot, or any of the
additionap prometheus-* packages it might've pulled in, check
them too.
1605 [16:45:40] <SanchoPensa> ratrace: and sftp is a client?
1606 [16:45:58] <ratrace> SanchoPensa: yes, part of openssh-client
1607 [16:45:59] <greycat> SFTP is a protocol, and sftp is a
program that implements the client side of it.
1608 [16:46:05] <greycat> sshfs is another.
1609 [16:46:25] <tcurdt> ratrace: not in there ... but I have the
feeling this is something else ... I also deinstalled ntp and there
still is the link from ntp.service but to /dev/null
1610 [16:46:28] <ratrace> but indeed I meant use the sftp
_protocol_ when I suggested sftp
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1612 [16:46:50] <tcurdt> I am still not feeling all too
comfortable with systemd I guess
1613 [16:47:03] <ratrace> tcurdt: manual interventions, disabling
of the service will do that. the package afaik should NOT deal with
systemd units under /etc, so uninstalling it, won't change /etc
1614 [16:47:10] <somiaj> ratrace: if you 'mask' a
service, that links is created by systemctl in /etc
1615 [16:47:16] <somiaj> arg
1616 [16:47:16] <ratrace> I know
1617 [16:47:17] <somiaj> tcurdt: ^^
1618 [16:47:19] <ratrace> :)
1619 [16:47:45] <somiaj> tcurdt: in general, if you have a file in
/etc/systemd, it was put there because of something you did, and
purging the file won't remove them.
1620 [16:47:53] <somiaj> (as ratrace has already stated)
1621 [16:48:18] <tcurdt> somiaj: stopping a service is manual
intervention?
1622 [16:48:33] <ratrace> stopping != masking or disabling
1623 [16:48:42] *** Joins: dexta (~D3XTA@replaced-ip )
1624 [16:48:42] <jhutchins_wk> Does any mechanism exist to warn of
expiring ssl certificates?
1625 [16:48:51] <somiaj> stoping a service won't create a
file in /etc/systemd, masking is different. Also if you use
systemctl to edit the service, a copy of the file gets added to /etc
1626 [16:49:07] <ratrace> jhutchins_wk: I've had a custom
openssl based script that checked those, before I switched to
LetsEncrypt
1627 [16:49:15] *** Joins: Sam_Gunn (~Sam_Gunn@replaced-ip )
1628 [16:50:39] <ratrace> jhutchins_wk: it's an oneliner
really, but I had it in a loop for each cert. `echo | openssl
s_client -connect <domain>:<port> | openssl x509 -noout
-dates` will give you dates to check and warn against
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1631 [16:51:42] <tcurdt> ratrace: how do I get rid of the
left-overs? I mean: I did a purge of the package, deleted the links
in /etc/systemd/system and did a systemctl daemon-reload ... what
else?
1632 [16:51:47] <ratrace> somiaj: nitpick, but systemctl edit
doesn't copy the whole unit, it creates and manages drop-ins
snippets
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1634 [16:52:20] <somiaj> ratrace: yea, puts it into foo.d/
1635 [16:52:30] <ratrace> tcurdt: purge will only deal with files
the package is aware of, so any other files you placed there must be
dealt yourself
1636 [16:52:42] *** Quits: HerbY_NL2 (~HerbY_NL2@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
1637 [16:53:02] <tcurdt> ratrace: I did not place any files
myself. I installed package and then uninstalled the package.
1638 [16:53:10] *** Quits: towo^work (~towo@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1639 [16:53:21] <tcurdt> and now I am stuck with a service in
systemd
1640 [16:53:30] *** Quits: rander2 (~luca@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
1641 [16:53:32] <ratrace> tcurdt: what's the service name?
1642 [16:53:43] <tcurdt> ratrace:
prometheus-nginx-exporter.service
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1644 [16:53:45] *** chmykh_ is now known as chmykh
1645 [16:54:20] <ratrace> ,file prometheus-nginx-exporter.service
1646 [16:54:21] *** Quits: lastrodamo (~lastrodam@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Quitte)
1647 [16:54:25] <judd> Search for
prometheus-nginx-exporter.service in buster/amd64:
prometheus-nginx-exporter:
lib/systemd/system/prometheus-nginx-exporter.service
1648 [16:54:41] <ratrace> the package deals with the unit under
/lib
1649 [16:55:59] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Bin weg.)
1650 [16:56:02] <ratrace> tcurdt: also:
replaced-url
1651 [16:56:27] <tcurdt> ratrace: judd: there is nothing at
/lib/systemd/system/prom*
1652 [16:56:36] <SanchoPensa> ratrace: so this literally runs via
ssh, which I absolutely don't mind. Since I was scp-ing all
them files anyways until a few months back, when I finally foung the
andling of all them directories on the command line just too
cumbersome. so, do you use a GUI client for it?
1653 [16:57:28] <ratrace> tcurdt: judd is a bot. meanwhile, I find
no postinst or other script that might touch /etc here:
replaced-url
1654 [16:57:41] *** Joins: endstille (~endstille@replaced-ip )
1655 [16:57:56] <tcurdt> lol
1656 [16:58:01] *** Quits: Kevlar_Noir (~manjaro-u@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
1657 [16:58:03] <ratrace> SanchoPensa: no. I use openssh's
sftp client for quick transfers, and otherwise rsync, sometimes
scripted with a Makefile for more complex transfers
1658 [16:58:46] *** Quits: r0shi (~r0shi@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
1659 [16:59:12] <ratrace> tcurdt: if there's nothing there,
the package has removed it, as you said you uninstalled. if you
re-install, it'll re-appear
1660 [16:59:59] <greycat> tcurdt: what command are you running
that makes you think pieces of the package are still present, and
what is the ACTUAL output from that command? Paste it on
paste.debian.net or similar.
1661 [17:00:03] <ratrace> tcurdt: which is to mean that the
package deals with its own default systemd unit. anything in /etc
must've been placed there by someone; and the symlinks will get
created/managed when you en/disable or mask the service.
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1664 [17:01:30] <SanchoPensa> ratrace: due to the complexity of
the file structure and the content, respectively the naming
conventions, scripting is next to impossible... I am an archiver for
audio-visual infotainment content. in other words, I really need
that Gui client, or I can just as well stick to scp...?
1665 [17:01:37] *** Joins: electronblob_ (~quassel@replaced-ip )
1666 [17:02:00] <ratrace> SanchoPensa: command line scp?
1667 [17:02:12] *** Quits: electronblob_ (~quassel@replaced-ip ) (Client Quit)
1668 [17:02:27] <greycat> I use scp for manual transfers
sometimes, because of muscle memory more than anything.
1669 [17:02:30] <SanchoPensa> ratrace: yeah. What I was doing till
a while back, until the handling really got too cumbersome...
1670 [17:02:47] <SanchoPensa> greycat: i feel ya, bro... :D
1671 [17:02:56] <tinyhippo> greycat: I used to do that but now
Iuse rsync
1672 [17:02:59] <greycat> it's fine for simple one-off
interactive stuff where you can fix it if it breaks
1673 [17:03:11] *** Quits: zeden (~user@replaced-ip ) (Quit: WeeChat 2.6)
1674 [17:03:15] <tinyhippo> its' not much more effort to type
rsync -av rather than scp
1675 [17:03:47] <SanchoPensa> rsync is pretty fine, if you have
regular tasks, that are easy to automate... which in my case is
unfortunately not the case...
1676 [17:03:54] <jelly> scp is a lot less useful after
they've implemented arbitrary checks on glob syntax
1677 [17:03:55] <ratrace> tcurdt: I don't use Filezilla, but
some of my Windowsite coleagues do, on windows. it works okay with
sftp (protocol) and ssh-key based authentication. I'd recommend
you try that instead of ftp, there could indeed be a problem in
filezilla with FTP (the protocol) + TLS
1678 [17:04:40] <SanchoPensa> ratrace: there is, as a matter of
fact. I can definitely confirm it.
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1680 [17:05:02] <tcurdt> ratrace:
replaced-url
1681 [17:05:16] <tcurdt> ratrace: still the service is listed here
replaced-url
1682 [17:05:48] <greycat> stupid gist, no raw link can be derived
from the non-raw link
1683 [17:05:50] <ratrace> tcurdt: yes under /etc/default which is
normal for services to have an environment file there, compatibility
with sysv inits; but none under /etc/systemd/
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1687 [17:06:08] <SanchoPensa> so, guys, you are saying sftp over
filezilla works better? hmmm... gonna have to check that out, will
report back in a while...
1688 [17:06:20] <tcurdt> ratrace: ok ... thought /etc in general
... anywway ... files are gone ... service is still listed
1689 [17:06:25] <SanchoPensa> than you so far, ladies and gents,
appreciate your help!
1690 [17:06:39] *** Quits: bukkitgerman8 (~bukkitger@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds))
1691 [17:06:51] <greycat> tcurdt: it clearly says "not
found". I don't see the problem yet. Are you asking what
service is LOOKING FOR prometheus-nginx-exporter.service? I
don't know how to find that out, other than things like grep
-r.
1692 [17:06:55] <ratrace> tcurdt: no, sorry if I wasn't
precise, I meant systemd units under /etc, should not (must not?) be
managed by the package
1693 [17:06:56] *** Joins: rander2 (~luca@replaced-ip )
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1695 [17:07:25] <ratrace> tcurdt: I don't know how exactly
systemd/systemctl creates that list, but if you have that symlink
still under /etc/systemd/system just `unlink` it
1696 [17:07:36] <greycat> P.S. the raw link is
replaced-url
1697 [17:08:21] *** Parts: tinyhippo (~tinyhippo@replaced-ip ) ("stay black")
1698 [17:08:51] <greycat> so if you're just dead curious
about why something is looking for your deleted service, you could
start with something like grep -rF prometheus-nginx-exporter
/etc/systemd /lib/systemd
1699 [17:09:27] <tcurdt> greycat: why is systemd still looking for
the service ... that's my question ... there is no file anymore
in /etc/systemd/system and I reloaded systemctl
1700 [17:09:32] *** Joins: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip )
1701 [17:09:33] <greycat> ...
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1703 [17:09:37] <tcurdt> yes, grep -rF prometheus-nginx-exporter
/etc/systemd /lib/systemd returns nothing
1704 [17:09:49] <greycat> Then I don't know. Ask #systemd.
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1706 [17:11:28] <tcurdt> ok ... then back to packaging part ... I
don't get why a package would not remove the link from
/etc/systemd/system when being removed
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1708 [17:11:32] <tcurdt> is that expected?
1709 [17:11:46] <somiaj> the package dose not know of this file
1710 [17:11:47] <jelly> tcurdt: and by "reloaded" you
mean "systemctl daemon-reload" ?
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1712 [17:11:56] <tcurdt> jelly: yup
1713 [17:12:36] <ratrace> it is expected, /etc/systemd/ is for
local systemd overrides of vendor (package) provided units under
/lib/systemd/
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1720 [17:14:27] <tcurdt> ratrace: so these are all overrides?
replaced-url
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1722 [17:16:24] <somiaj> the services yes, I don't see why
you have those links there (they are not on my system for isntance).
1723 [17:16:52] <tcurdt> somiaj: odd ... I didnt' create them
1724 [17:17:01] <ratrace> tcurdt: no, I was talking about service
units. those files are .wants that systemd configures to express
dependencies, and .service symlinks I'm not sure, iirc
they're explicit enablements of a service
1725 [17:17:07] <somiaj> something you did created them
1726 [17:17:28] <ratrace> explicit systemctl enable
<service> would do that, iirc, but I could be wrong
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1728 [17:18:05] * tcurdt is starting to hate systemd
1729 [17:18:09] <somiaj> hmm, opps, I guess I do have an
sshd.service link, I think the package puts that there so
sshd.serbice and ssh.service are identicle.
1730 [17:18:39] <somiaj> So it does appear packages will put links
there to duplicate service names and to setup targets
1731 [17:18:47] <ratrace> somiaj: ah yessss... no not the package,
but Alias directive in the unit
1732 [17:19:16] <somiaj> ratrace: so when the unit is run, if
there is an Alias directive, systemd creates said link?
1733 [17:19:16] <tcurdt> even after a reboot I still have those
services from the removed packages listed as "loaded active
exited"
1734 [17:19:51] <ratrace> somiaj: not sure when it's created
exactly, but those are definitely due to Alias=
1735 [17:20:28] <ratrace> tcurdt: find /etc/systemd/ -name
'*prometheus-nginx-exporter*'
1736 [17:21:11] <somiaj> shouldn't systemctl status service
list the location of said unit file?
1737 [17:21:12] <tcurdt> ratrace: nothing
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1740 [17:24:13] <ratrace> somiaj: systemctl enable will create the
Alias symlinks, just checked with a dummy unit
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1743 [17:27:46] <somiaj> ratrace: does disable remove the links
(so packages would remove them correctly)?
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1745 [17:28:06] <somiaj> though unsure if a package disables or
what it does in its remove script
1746 [17:28:13] <ratrace> somiaj: looks like it doesn't
1747 [17:28:44] <ratrace> I don't think the packages deal
with those files explicitly; only through systemctl controls
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1749 [17:29:13] <somiaj> yea so I was wondering if systemd dealt
with them, wonder if it cleans up dead links, so if you remove the
dummy service the link gets cleaned up later
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1752 [17:29:39] <ratrace> somiaj: wait, it does remove the symlink
if you _disable_ the main service unit yes
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1754 [17:30:10] <somiaj> so packages probably disable the service
before remobing the unit file?
1755 [17:30:27] <somiaj> anyways, seems like systemd is correctly
dealign with these Alias links
1756 [17:31:08] <ratrace> somiaj: afaik it was always like that in
debian, even pre-systemd. removing a package stops the service
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1760 [17:31:51] <ratrace> (all the services enabled by default by
the package)
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1762 [17:32:40] <somiaj> yea, invoke-rc.d (I think this was the
tool used) was probably updated to do similar things for systemd
units
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1764 [17:35:23] <somiaj> or maybe it is update-rc.d (if I recall
correctly these are what packages use when installing/removing
services)
1765 [17:35:29] <SanchoPensa> ratrace: greycat: sftp works like
charms with filezilla! Thanks once more, guys!
1766 [17:36:02] <ratrace> update-rc.d iirc
1767 [17:36:07] <ratrace> !next
1768 [17:36:08] <dpkg> Another happy customer leaves the building.
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1779 [17:41:58] <ratrace> tcurdt: I wonder if for some reason the
service ended up in initramfs, but if that was expected, the package
should've triggered initramfs update. try it manually
(update-initramfs -u) and see if that clears on next boot?
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1786 [17:43:35] <tcurdt> ratrace: will try - but what is
initramfs? sounds like it should be gone after reboot anyway
1787 [17:43:36] *** Quits: adikt (~adiktz@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1788 [17:44:21] <greycat> it certainly doesn't *sound* like
the kind of package that would touch initrd
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1790 [17:44:24] <ratrace> tcurdt: it's a miniaturized rootfs
containing minimum requirements to find and mount the root
filesystem, and pivot to it, during boot. it's standard
component of almost every linux distro
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1792 [17:44:53] <ratrace> greycat: I was thinking more about
manual masking that could've ended up as a symlink in initramfs
and then systemd somehow picked that up something something.... just
an idea.
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1794 [17:46:09] <tcurdt> nah ... did the update-initramfs -u but
still there after the reboot
1795 [17:46:24] <ratrace> after all, systemd does consult files
and simlinks under /lib, /etc and /run , it has no other database
where it tracks deps and service enablement
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1797 [17:47:01] <ratrace> tcurdt: what does systemctl status
prometheus-nginx-exporter.service say?
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1810 [17:55:02] <tcurdt> ratrace: I think I found it
1811 [17:55:35] <tcurdt> rm /etc/init.d/prom* and then a reboot
1812 [17:56:17] <ratrace> ooohh yes, systemd wraps those through a
generator, forgot about it. but uh... the package should've
removed it. was it modified or something?
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1814 [17:56:49] <tcurdt> but I don't understand why those
files were there - or rather were not removed when the package was
removed
1815 [17:56:58] <tcurdt> ratrace: nope ... nothing modified
1816 [17:57:03] <greycat> it's not in
replaced-url
1817 [17:57:20] <greycat> must've been left over from an
older version, or it was created on the fly for some reason
1818 [17:57:51] <somiaj> tcurdt: Did you ever install prometheus
locally or follow some guide to setting it up?
1819 [17:57:52] <tcurdt> it seems like all prmetheus related
packages were affected
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##replaced-url
1822 [17:58:08] <tcurdt> somiaj: nope ... apt-get install ...
that's it
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1824 [17:58:18] <tcurdt> no custom repo
1825 [17:58:25] <tcurdt> just plain buster
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1827 [17:58:37] <ratrace> tcurdt: try it again. make sure the init
script is gone, then apt install prometheus-nginx-exporter, see if
it appears
1828 [17:58:52] <somiaj> all signs point to you (or some script)
on your system did something which created these init files in /etc
1829 [17:59:42] <somiaj> ratrace: If the script was a config file,
and the install doesn't create it, it could also be due to the
confmiss option.
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1831 [18:00:50] <somiaj> just pointing out that the script not
being created wouldn't be complete evidence the package
doesn't create one
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1833 [18:01:40] <ratrace> are init scripts dealt with confmiss? I
thought dh differentiated them from "config"
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1835 [18:02:01] <tcurdt> apt-get install
prometheus-nginx-exporter, apt-get remove prometheus-nginx-exporter,
systemctl daemone-reload, systemctl | grep prom
1836 [18:02:05] <tcurdt> and it's still there
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1838 [18:02:20] <ratrace> tcurdt: did the init script reappear
under /etc/init.d/ ?
1839 [18:02:49] <somiaj> ratrace: maybe I'm mistaken here, I
was trying to look up if they are config files or not, I think being
in /etc triggered that thought for me
1840 [18:02:50] <tcurdt> ratrace: oddly enough - no
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1842 [18:02:58] <greycat> what's the easiest way to get from
the binary package name (prometheus-nginx-exporter) to a source
package name, so we can look for the systemd unit file in
sources.debian.org?
1843 [18:03:45] <tcurdt> but it left over
/etc/systemd/system/prometheus-nginx-exporter.service ->
/dev/null
1844 [18:03:48] <ratrace> greycat:
replaced-url
1845 [18:04:06] *** Joins: overyander (~overyande@replaced-ip )
1846 [18:04:09] <somiaj> apt-cache show prometheus-nginx-exporter
| grep Source -> Source: prometheus-nginx-exporter (0.1.0-1)
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1848 [18:04:28] <ratrace> greycat: the lazy me googles for
"<package> debian package", then I click the
"Developer Information" in the sidebar, then there's
the "browse source code" on the tracker
1849 [18:04:36] <greycat> Ah. It *was* there, all along.
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1852 [18:06:14] <greycat> tcurdt: you did apt-get remove, not
apt-get purge?
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1854 [18:06:37] <tcurdt> this time I just did a remove
1855 [18:07:01] <greycat> that *might* explain why the service was
masked -- I really don't know
1856 [18:07:05] <somiaj> so it is treating the unit files as
config files and putting them in /etc?
1857 [18:07:14] <tcurdt> rm
/etc/systemd/system/prometheus-nginx-exporter.service &&
reboot and it now it's gone again
1858 [18:07:18] <greycat> somiaj: no, masking is done by creating
a symlink in /etc
1859 [18:07:22] <tcurdt> but I had to reboot
1860 [18:07:29] <tcurdt> reloading systemd was not enough
1861 [18:08:42] * ratrace fires up a testing VM ...
1862 [18:09:09] <ratrace> apt install prometheus-nginx-exporter
does not install the service unit under /etc/systemd/system
1863 [18:09:34] <greycat> I bet it doesn't install an init.d
script either.
1864 [18:09:40] <ratrace> not even an init.d script
1865 [18:09:53] <ratrace> tcurdt: lay down all your cards. is this
really debian buster? :)
1866 [18:10:05] <tcurdt> lol
1867 [18:10:14] <ratrace> Imma charge you $200 for wasted support
time if it isn't.
1868 [18:10:39] <tcurdt> lsb_release -a says: Debian GNU/Linux 10
(buster)
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1871 [18:11:58] <tcurdt> ratrace: I used apt-get not apt ... not
sure if that makes a difference ... I doubt it but... just for the
record
1872 [18:12:06] <greycat> it shouldn't
1873 [18:12:27] <greycat> but so far there's no sign of
who/what created the init.d script, so we have to assume it was
something you did
1874 [18:13:04] <ratrace> tcurdt: assuming that IS buster, do you
have some trigger happy declarative config management there, like, I
don't know, chef or puppet, or maybe nix
1875 [18:13:05] <tcurdt> greycat: well, I wouldn't know how
1876 [18:14:37] <tcurdt> ratrace: the initial install was with
ansible but I did not run that during this irc session ... I can run
it now to see if it does some funny business
1877 [18:15:38] <tcurdt> as suspected - nothing
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1880 [18:15:55] <ratrace> tcurdt: the bottom line is, if you
remove the package, then make sure there aren't service units
in /etc/systemd/system nor init scripts in /etc/init.d/ do they
re-appear when you `apt-get install prometheus-nginx-exporter` ?
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1882 [18:16:15] <ratrace> *related service units and init scripts
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1884 [18:16:32] <greycat> the first bottom line is "purge it
instead of removing it, if you really care about aesthetics like
ignoreable warnings"
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1898 [18:22:59] <tcurdt> ratrace: greycat: another round of tests
replaced-url
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1900 [18:23:13] <tcurdt> I still have no clue how those init.d
scripts came to be
1901 [18:23:20] <tcurdt> but now I know what to check
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1903 [18:23:27] <tcurdt> having to reboot though
1904 [18:23:35] <tcurdt> is not really great
1905 [18:23:43] <tcurdt> and should be reproducable
1906 [18:24:08] <tcurdt> but that's probably rather a systemd
thing
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1945 [18:55:30] <Sam_Gunn> !bethany
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1954 [19:00:43] <raidghost> Are there any teatime for GNOME (i
found one for kde) but not gnome)
1955 [19:02:35] <jelly> raidghost: you can install the one for KDE
at the expense of some disk space for zillions of dependencies
1956 [19:03:19] <jelly> I suspect there are also online web pages
with similar specific purpose timers
1957 [19:03:54] <greycat> "apt-get -s install kteatime"
wants to install 140 packages, for me, but it might be less on a
system with GNOME installed
1958 [19:03:58] <raidghost> jelly: install the one for kde, but
then i have to install all THE KDE needed packages also
1959 [19:04:08] <greycat> yes, that's what he said
1960 [19:04:44] * greycat glares at apt-get -s for not telling me the
*size*
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1962 [19:05:26] <greycat> "sudo apt-get -u" shows the
size, but it's sad that I have to break out sudo for that
1963 [19:05:47] <jelly> hmm. Did it not use to do that?
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1965 [19:06:43] <jelly> aptitude -s install ... does: Need to get
31.3 MB of archives. After unpacking 252 MB will be used.
1966 [19:07:08] <greycat> OK, aptitude wins this round.
1967 [19:07:43] <jelly> apt does not, either
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1969 [19:08:58] <jelly> raidghost: so maybe just this time you can
add --without-recommends... to that aptitude -s install kteatime
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1972 [19:09:32] <jelly> see if there's a significant
difference
1973 [19:09:37] <greycat> that saves 30 MB for me, out of 167 MB
1974 [19:09:46] <jelly> woo-frikkin-hoo
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1976 [19:09:52] <wallbroken> hi
1977 [19:10:04] <annadane> o/
1978 [19:10:06] <wallbroken> how to set dns server in debian 10 ?
1979 [19:10:19] <jelly> wallbroken: depends on how your network is
configured
1980 [19:10:30] <wallbroken> actually it pulls from dhcp server,
now i need to set 8.8.8.8 for all
1981 [19:10:37] <greycat> wallbroken: for most people, the DHCP
client daemon overwrites /etc/resolv.conf on a semiregular basis.
1982 [19:10:37] *** Quits: MyroSVK (~MyroSVK@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Have to go...)
1983 [19:10:42] <wallbroken> jelly: it's a guest virtual
machine in dropbox with NAT configuration
1984 [19:11:00] <jelly> wallbroken: and you cannot configure the
dhcp server to provide the correct nameserver entries?
1985 [19:11:12] <jelly> in... virtualbox?
1986 [19:11:38] <wallbroken> looks like a virtualbox bug
1987 [19:11:54] <jelly> we used to have recipes for that
1988 [19:11:57] <jelly> !override dns
1989 [19:11:57] <dpkg> To have dhclient etc not touch
/etc/resolv.conf, the best plan is to configure it not to touch that
file. See
replaced-url
1990 [19:12:05] <wallbroken> the problem is that when i switch
host connection, i need to reboot guest to get the new one
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1993 [19:12:45] <wallbroken> so, what do i need to do?
1994 [19:13:01] <greycat> You could start by reading what the bot
said.
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1997 [19:13:19] <wallbroken> that said to not touch resolv.conf
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1999 [19:13:39] <greycat> So, you can't read English.
I'm so sorry to hear this.
2000 [19:13:42] <jelly> correct, you can avoid touching it
manually
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2004 [19:14:44] <jelly> the silly irc client I use right now is
hiding dpkg's messages, I trust it did its thing and provided a
couple options and a dhclient-specific one?
2005 [19:14:45] <wallbroken> jelly: so, what's the correct
way to set the dns server address?
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2007 [19:15:12] <jelly> wallbroken: I don't know, can you
read what dpkg said more carefully (if it said anything)
2008 [19:15:17] <greycat> jelly: "dpkg> To have dhclient
etc not touch /etc/resolv.conf, the best plan is to configure it not
to touch that file. See
replaced-url
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2010 [19:15:34] <greycat> And out friend read this as "do not
touch /etc/resolv.conf".
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2012 [19:15:47] <jelly> the best plans... often go awry
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2014 [19:16:03] *** Quits: tcurdt (~tcurdt@replaced-ip ) ()
2015 [19:16:11] <greycat> I don't know how to write factoids
that can be understood by a person who reads English at a 4th grade
level, and also convey actual information.
2016 [19:16:33] <jelly> wallbroken: I'd go read
replaced-url
2017 [19:16:38] <greycat> Of course, I didn't write this one,
but still.
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2019 [19:16:51] <wallbroken> not really clear
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2022 [19:17:06] <greycat> wallbroken: go to
replaced-url
2023 [19:17:12] * jelly visits ircbots.debian.net instead
2024 [19:17:23] <nickdo> if someone uses a code written in example
of debian manpage, in a software with MIT license, is it a violation
of terms? i saw a (one liner) condition in d's manpage, which i
wanted to adapt.
2025 [19:17:58] <greycat> nickdo: what package is the man page
from, and what's the license of that package?
2026 [19:18:01] *** Quits: Wotac (~Wotac@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2027 [19:18:13] <wallbroken> ok never mind...
2028 [19:18:16] <jelly> wallbroken: there are several options on
that page, I'd go with "Modifying
/etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf"
2029 [19:18:37] <wallbroken> i'm not an expert, and i
didn't understood that guide
2030 [19:18:45] <wallbroken> so, never mind. thank you anyway
2031 [19:19:17] <nickdo> greycat: it is a man 2 sys calls, not
sure about the pacakge, base system?
2032 [19:19:24] <nickdo> package*
2033 [19:19:28] <greycat> nickdo: what man page is it?
2034 [19:19:49] <jelly> nickdo: man pages typically do not embed
significant passages of code
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2037 [19:21:54] <nickdo> greycat: let me ask the person (waiting
for his response on another chat) :p
2038 [19:22:28] <jelly> nickdo: and there can't really be so
many different ways to interact with a syscall, it is an API.
However. IANAL. This is not legal advice.
2039 [19:22:30] <nickdo> greaycat: seccomp(2), does it make sense?
2040 [19:22:32] *** Quits: n_1-c_k (~n_1-c_k@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2041 [19:22:40] <greycat> ,file seccomp.2
2042 [19:22:44] <judd> No packages in buster/amd64 were found with
that file.
2043 [19:23:00] <greycat> ,file seccomp.2.gz
2044 [19:23:05] <judd> Search for seccomp.2.gz in buster/amd64:
manpages-dev: usr/share/man/man2/seccomp.2.gz
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2046 [19:23:31] <wallbroken> ok, foud the solution
2047 [19:23:35] *** Joins: n_1-c_k (~n_1-c_k@replaced-ip )
2048 [19:23:38] <wallbroken> added "prepend
domain-name-servers 8.8.8.8" to dhcclient.conf
2049 [19:23:39] <greycat> manpages-dev is under GPL-2 according to
/usr/share/doc/manpages-dev/copyright
2050 [19:23:51] <greycat> wallbroken: make sure you spell the file
name correctly
2051 [19:24:18] <nickdo> jelly: yup, i think things get quite
tricky, so i wanted to make sure that copy/paste don't come
back at us haunting down the road. maybe extra cautious is overkill
2052 [19:24:22] <greycat> oh wait, there are multiple licenses
here...
2053 [19:24:27] <wallbroken> -/etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf
2054 [19:24:29] <nickdo> ah
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2056 [19:25:06] <greycat> The section that has seccomp in it is
listed as "License: verbatim"
2057 [19:25:09] <nickdo> greycat: does the package license also
include example in the manpage?
2058 [19:25:10] <ratrace> greycat: surely that's just for the
manpage code?
2059 [19:25:20] <nickdo> yup
2060 [19:25:36] <nickdo> that's what i heard at least :D
2061 [19:25:37] <ratrace> if the manpage is part of teh (MIT
licensed) upstream source, then I'd imagine it's MIT too
2062 [19:25:54] <greycat> And at the bottom of the file,
"License: verbatim" is exlained.
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2065 [19:26:25] <greycat> ratrace: manpages-dev apparently draws
from many different sources, and this particular page is from Linux
2066 [19:26:49] <jelly> nickdo: let someone else read it, NOT you,
write a functional spec, then you implement it. Now you've
reinvented clean-room reverse engineering!
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2068 [19:27:20] <ratrace> heh
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2070 [19:27:49] <nickdo> haha, i know it's above my paygrade
anyway. i just wanted to have some understanding of what we are
getting into :D
2071 [19:28:27] *** Joins: Jerrynicki (~niklas@replaced-ip )
2072 [19:28:31] <jelly> I seem to remember GPL having exceptions
for OS API boundaries
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2075 [19:28:51] <greycat> the "verbatim" license seems
more strict than GPL, to me, but IANAL
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2080 [19:30:33] <nickdo> yup me neither, if it was solely my
choice to change the world, i would have open sourced everything
(even the gd hardware and cars design), but i am not a genius or
expert of any sort. -.-
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2082 [19:31:41] <jelly> > The User-space API (UAPI) header
files, which describe the interface of user-space programs to the
kernel are a special case. # says nothing about the docs for said
API
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2084 [19:32:02] <jelly>
replaced-url
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2090 [19:34:04] <nickdo> thanks for the link. sad that it is not
explicitly spelled out "what about the example code in
manpage" .. maybe nobody get inspired by examples in manpage,
instead folks resort to stackoverflow etc. :D
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2093 [19:34:35] <greycat> I suspect most people would just copy
the example and never give credit.
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2095 [19:35:18] <jelly> if unsure, treat it as completely closed
source, and reverse engineer it if that's legal
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2104 [19:37:27] <nickdo> lol, maybe they can have a webapi for
automated laywers, that would return forbidden status code if query
is illegal. "can i at least reverse-engineer it?", resp:
<i am a teapot>
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2108 [19:38:20] <jelly> 418 != 403
2109 [19:38:24] * jelly hides
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2113 [19:39:04] <nickdo> true! and 418 is deprecated as well
(facepalm on more time)
2114 [19:39:08] <jelly> 451 Unavailable For Legal Reasons
2115 [19:39:32] <nickdo> noice 8-)
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2147 [20:08:24] <iiee> dude
2148 [20:08:27] <iiee> hi :)
2149 [20:08:56] <iiee> i am using net install of debian 10 without
x11 relying on framebuffer and mpv works good for video playback
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*!*@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.77.111.247.208 eir
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2203 [20:51:40] <jhutchins_wk> Is there a way to prevent ipv6 dns
lookups?
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2211 [20:54:59] <pasiz> jhutchins_wk: /etc/gai.conf
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2223 [21:05:13] <jhutchins_wk> Yeah, but what disables 6 lookups?
It seems to configure whether it sends queries over 6.
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2229 [21:08:41] <pasiz> jhutchins_wk: disable ipv6 via sysctl if
you need to be sure
2230 [21:08:51] <ChmEarl> jhutchins, from firefox about:config
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2234 [21:09:14] <pasiz> ChmEarl: and that helps to os level?
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2236 [21:09:47] <pasiz> jhutchins_wk: do you need ipv6 without
dns?
2237 [21:10:05] *** Joins: teclo- (42@replaced-ip )
2238 [21:10:10] <jhutchins_wk> pasiz: No.
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2241 [21:10:46] <pasiz> then disable it via sysctl
2242 [21:10:59] <jhutchins_wk> What we see is that nslookup
returns the ipv4 address, then returns a srvfail for ipv6, which
apps are seeing as a DNS fail.
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2245 [21:11:31] <jhutchins_wk> pasiz: It is disabled, but it seems
to be autoconfiguring internal addresses.
2246 [21:11:39] <pasiz> like: net.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6 = 1
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2248 [21:12:14] <Dagger> jhutchins_wk: your DNS is broken. fix the
DNS
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2250 [21:12:30] <pasiz> and same but conf.default.disable_ipv6
2251 [21:12:31] <Dagger> you shouldn't be disabling v6 for
this, just use a DNS server that actually works
2252 [21:12:43] <pasiz> and conf.lo.disable_ipv6
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2256 [21:12:58] <pasiz> Dagger: that is a good point
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2279 [21:30:19] <wwilliam> !chroot
2280 [21:30:20] <dpkg> To chroot into your Debian system boot to
your Debian install disk/live CD, switch to the other console
(Alt-F2). Mount your root filesystem with "mount -t ext2
/dev/whatever /target" and make /dev, /proc and /sys usable
with "mount --rbind --make-rslave /dev /target/dev ; mount -t
proc none /target/proc ; mount -t sysfs none /target/sys". You
can then chroot into the system with "chroot /target".
2281 [21:30:39] <wwilliam> !bootstrap
2282 [21:30:44] <wwilliam> :(
2283 [21:31:36] <wwilliam> what is the factoid to create a sarge
chroot?
2284 [21:32:12] <greycat> that's going pretty damned far
back...
2285 [21:32:14] <greycat> !debootstrap
2286 [21:32:14] <dpkg> debootstrap can create a basic Debian
system from scratch, without apt/dpkg. Useful for installing in a
<chroot>. It is key to installing Debian GNU/Linux from a
Unix/Linux system, ask me about <install guide>.
replaced-url
2287 [21:32:27] *** Quits: llucenic_ (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2288 [21:32:27] <greycat> are you sure the sarge userspace will
run on a modern kernel?
2289 [21:33:10] <wwilliam> Thanks
2290 [21:33:41] <wwilliam> that is all i need i forgot the name of
the chroot i created and i name it exactly as the instructions thank
you.
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2301 [21:39:55] <wwilliam> how do i know if i have any chroot set
up i forgot the name
2302 [21:39:57] <wwilliam> shit
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2307 [21:41:32] <Akuw> i am getting this when try to install
"pcscd : Depends: libccid (>= 1.4.1~) but it is not going to
be installed or"
2308 [21:41:40] <Akuw> but that .deb file is there
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2311 [21:42:37] <Akuw>
"/srv/local-apt-repository/libccid_1.4.18-1_amd64.deb"
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2317 [21:44:30] <allizom> Akuw: what is your exact command line?
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2321 [21:45:01] <Akuw> "apt-get install pcscd"
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2327 [21:50:56] <wwilliam> !install guide
2328 [21:50:57] <dpkg> The Installation Guide for Debian 10
"Buster" can be found at
replaced-url
2329 [21:51:13] <greycat> you know you can /msg the bots, right?
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2335 [21:54:12] <Akuw> ??
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2337 [21:54:24] <Akuw> the problem is with that package only
2338 [21:54:41] <allizom> Akuw: which debian version and arch are
you running this on? how have you configured your local repo? please
paste your /etc/apt/sources.list
2339 [21:55:20] <Akuw> deb [trusted=yes]
file:///var/lib/local-apt-repository/ ./
2340 [21:56:02] <Akuw> all packges install without problem
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2342 [21:56:10] <Akuw> the only package is that
2343 [21:56:10] *** Joins: CaptainN (~KevinKeen@replaced-ip )
2344 [21:56:23] <Akuw> pcscd, with dependency problem
2345 [21:57:07] <greycat> so the file is actually in
/src/local-apt-repository/ but sources.list says
/var/lib/local-apt-repository/ ?
2346 [21:57:11] <greycat> err /srv/
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2348 [21:58:00] <Akuw> yes
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2350 [21:58:12] <Akuw> "srv/"
2351 [21:58:20] <Akuw> "/srv"
2352 [21:58:23] <greycat> 16:42 Akuw>
"/srv/local-apt-repository/libccid_1.4.18-1_amd64.deb"
2353 [21:58:34] <Akuw> yes
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2368 [22:07:30] <allizom> <allizom: Akuw: which debian version
and arch are you running this on? how have you configured your local
repo?>
2369 [22:08:02] *** Quits: winy (~vince@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving.)
2370 [22:08:05] <greycat> at least we know there's an
_amd64.deb file in it
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2382 [22:17:37] <f8e3> how to reverse-i-search and jump to
previous search hit?
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2384 [22:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1527
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2390 [22:21:55] *** Quits: wonderer (~quakeroat@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Famous quotes #58: "Every day I get up and look
through the Forbes list of the richest people in America. If
I'm not there, I go to work." - Robert Orben)
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2394 [22:25:17] * annadane isn't sure what i-searching is so
can't answer
2395 [22:25:26] <dob1> ,v guacamole
2396 [22:25:27] <judd> Package: guacamole on amd64 -- jessie:
0.8.3-1.1; sid: 0.9.9+dfsg-1; stretch: 0.9.9+dfsg-1
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2418 [22:51:07] <tom__> ack
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2428 [23:03:55] *** Quits: mmx_in_orbit (~mmx_in_sp@replaced-ip ) (Quit: Leaving)
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2433 [23:06:56] *** Quits: well_laid_lawn (~Jean-luc@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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2443 [23:14:28] *** Parts: Twoll (~Twoll@replaced-ip ) ("WeeChat 2.4")
2444 [23:14:40] *** Quits: Shahnaz_ (~Shahnaz@replaced-ip ) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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2452 [23:18:38] *** Joins: ianbrown78 (~AdminUser@replaced-ip )
2453 [23:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1521
2454 [23:21:25] *** Quits: jpe (~jp@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2455 [23:21:26] *** Quits: jpe_ (~jp@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2456 [23:21:44] *** xcm is now known as Guest32924
2457 [23:21:44] *** Quits: Guest32924 (~xcm@replaced-ip ) (Killed (weber.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
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2468 [23:31:19] *** Quits: iamgr00t (~iamgr00t@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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2472 [23:33:08] *** Joins: iamgr00t (~iamgr00t@replaced-ip )
2473 [23:33:19] <odp> Hi
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2476 [23:36:44] *** Quits: SiAnDoG (~514nDoG@replaced-ip ) (Remote host closed the connection)
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2482 [23:42:31] <Boohbah> edlou: Welcome
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2488 [23:43:55] *** Quits: tom_work (~tom_work@replaced-ip ) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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