• 0[00:00:08] <tcurdt> This here makes it clear to me: "[it] had the unwanted effect of making 'localhost.localdomain' the canonical hostname associated with the system hostname. That is, 'hostname --fqdn' returned 'localhost.localdomain'."
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• 3[00:01:06] <tcurdt> That also seems to suggest listening just on 127.0.0.1 is bad. Instead listen on the whole /8 range
• 4[00:01:20] <tcurdt> I wasn't aware of that at all
• 5[00:01:43] <ratrace> I don't know how you made that conclusion.
• 6[00:02:14] <ratrace> and you can't listen on the whole /8 range. you can only listen on the IP addresses assigned to your NICs. 0.0.0.0 has the implicit meaning of "all assigned"
• 7[00:03:02] <tcurdt> "...most services that listen locally listen on all 127/8 addresses, not just on 127.0.0.1"
• 8[00:03:08] <tcurdt> replaced-url
• 9[00:03:09] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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• 15[00:05:56] <ratrace> not sure what he means by that. "listen on" means opening a listening socket, to which you have to supply an IP ADDR, per libc APIs.
• 16[00:06:18] <tcurdt> re-reading it I don't get it either
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• 18[00:06:40] <ratrace> even so ... assuming there's implicit 127/8 magic in teh stack, why would you think that listening on 127.0.0.1/32 would be bad?
• 19[00:06:40] <greycat> most programs that listen, simply listen on 0.0.0.0
• 20[00:07:00] <ratrace> IF configured
• 21[00:07:14] <Delta706> how can I install the kernel headers corresponding to the running kernel?
• 22[00:07:27] <tcurdt> not a fan of listening on 0.0.0.0
• 23[00:07:33] <ratrace> definitely.
• 24[00:07:46] <greycat> Delta706: apt install linux-headers-"$(uname -r)"
• 25[00:07:47] <ratrace> Delta706: install linux-headers-amd64 metapackage?
• 26[00:08:07] <ratrace> ah... to the "running" kernel. yea, uname
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• 29[00:09:27] <Delta706> I get "linux-headers-amd64 is already the newest version"
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• 32[00:10:17] <sney> ok, so you already have it. what's the real issue?
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• 35[00:14:43] <ratrace> Delta706: note the difference between what I said and what greycat suggested. for _running_ kernel, which maybe a different one than default pulled in by the metapackage, you run with the uname
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• 115[02:01:18] <Delta706> aUnable to locate package linux-headers-4.19.0-9-amd64
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• 118[02:02:43] <Delta706> I am getting the above error when trying to install a headers package
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• 120[02:03:39] <ratrace> Delta706: -9 is probably long gone, unless somewhere in teh archives. the stable kernel is at 16th revision now
• 121[02:04:25] <Delta706> so I need a newer kernel?
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• 125[02:05:47] <ratrace> Delta706: well yes. aren't you running an up to date debian?
• 126[02:06:27] <ratrace> here's the 9th revision if you _really_ need that: replaced-url
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• 129[02:08:27] <Delta706> I guess I am not running an up to date debian. not sure how to tell
• 130[02:08:55] <dvs> Delta706: install the linux-image-amd64 package.
• 131[02:09:01] <oxek> cat /etc/debian_version
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• 134[02:09:24] <Delta706> debian_version is 10.4
• 135[02:09:37] <dvs> whoa!
• 136[02:10:28] <ratrace> Delta706: yup, you're 5 (five!) point releases behind. apt update && apt upgrade
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• 138[02:11:53] <Delta706> I need 10.9 then?
• 139[02:12:20] <dvs> That's what you'll get after ratraces command.
• 140[02:13:02] <ratrace> Delta706: you need to apt update and apt upgrade to get to latest, without aiming for specific version numbers
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• 263[06:19:46] <rockworld> hi, does anyone know how to install ssl certificate on centovacast with certbot
• 264[06:21:40] <rockworld> I know I need to create a symlink or aliase but Im not sure what to do as I have multiple website on same machine on port 80
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• 282[06:47:33] <monkwitdafunk> hello people of #debian
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• 284[06:48:32] <monkwitdafunk> there is no way to keep a debian installation for only free/libre software?
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• 286[06:49:53] <monkwitdafunk> i installed xiphos and bibletime and when running: apt-cache policy, i perceived what to be a at least 1 package installed from contrib
• 287[06:49:53] <oxek> monkwitdafunk: it's unclear what you mean, but if you only enable the 'main' and not 'non-free' parts of debian repositories, you'll only get dfsg-compliant free/libre software
• 288[06:50:18] <oxek> 'contrib' is free/libre software as well
• 289[06:51:11] <monkwitdafunk> yeah but i dont think i can volunteer for the h-node project unless i just use debian for offline purposes
• 290[06:52:03] <monkwitdafunk> is it just a licensing thing?...
• 291[06:52:29] <oxek> is what a licensing thing?
• 292[06:52:34] <somiaj> !contrib
• 293[06:52:34] <dpkg> [contrib] Debian packages that contain <DFSG>-compliant software, but have dependencies not in main (possibly packaged for Debian in non-free). To get contrib packages, add lines like "deb replaced-url
• 294[06:53:04] <somiaj> Contrib depends on non-free stuff in some way. Most often it is a direct depends, but sometimes (such as virtualbox -- though not really in debian right now -- it is a build depends is non-free)
• 295[06:53:13] <somiaj> but the software in contrib itself meets the DFSG
• 296[06:54:12] <klys> replaced-url
• 297[06:54:59] <monkwitdafunk> okay. i like the idea of DFSG, but i already will be an associate member of the FSF so i need to comply with the FSDG to volunteer for the h-node project
• 298[06:55:29] <klys> which contrib package are you talking about?
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• 300[06:56:09] <monkwitdafunk> it is bsd-clause 3 licensed package for xiphos, the bible software
• 301[06:56:27] <monkwitdafunk> i couldnt install xiphos in trisquel
• 302[06:57:15] <somiaj> monkwitdafunk: afiak DFSG software does complay, the only issue I see is how easy (or possibly encouraged) it is to enable contrib and non-free.
• 303[06:57:15] <rockworld> does anybody know how to fix this replaced-url
• 304[06:57:15] <somiaj> well that is the main complaint on why debian isn't certified when I last looked at it
• 305[06:58:21] <somiaj> monkwitdafunk: xiphos is in debian main (though its version has a +dfsg which means that any non-free stuff has been stripped out of it)
• 306[06:58:22] <oxek> their complaint is that it is *possible* to easily install non-free software in debian, and that debian even documents how to do it
• 307[06:58:23] <monkwitdafunk> i shouldnt be complaining really
• 308[06:59:26] <monkwitdafunk> i like the idea of using eset, or maybe mcafee, one of these days on linux but not now
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• 313[07:00:45] <somiaj> rockworld: first #debian cannot support third party repos, second read the error, the repo you have has no 'non-free' component. Basicaly you should just use 'main', not 'main non-free' for that repo. Though you'll have to ask the repo ownser for more details.
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• 315[07:01:06] <somiaj> rockworld: so edit your sources.list, remove non-free from that repo.
• 316[07:02:15] <rockworld> Im gonna check thanks
• 317[07:03:50] <rockworld> fixed thank you very much
• 318[07:04:20] <monkwitdafunk> okay. ill be back tommorow
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• 354[07:46:15] <rockworld> does anyone can help with apache configuration please
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• 361[07:55:06] <jmcnaught> rockworld: what is your question?
• 362[07:58:05] <rockworld> I have multiple website running on same server and I want to create a alias for centovacast that repertoried in /usr/local/centovacast/etc/ssl/acme-challenges replaced-url
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• 364[07:58:55] <rockworld> I try to serve the files from that folder
• 365[07:59:59] <jmcnaught> That does not look like Debian apache2 configuration, are you not using the Debian package?
• 366[08:00:15] <rockworld> yes this is debian
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• 368[08:00:31] <jmcnaught> How did you install apache httpd?
• 369[08:00:43] <rockworld> sudo apt-get install apache2
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• 371[08:02:14] <rockworld> but my main problem actually is im trying to add a ssl certificate for centovacast on debian 10 using certbot
• 372[08:02:39] <rockworld> here is the tutorial I found replaced-url
• 373[08:02:58] <rockworld> but thats really hard to understand I need to make my apache configuration perfectly
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• 375[08:04:59] <jmcnaught> Are you using a separate .conf in /etc/apache2/sites-available symlinked to sites-enabled for each VirtualHost?
• 376[08:05:21] <rockworld> yes
• 377[08:06:07] <rockworld> but I want the centovacast to point on one of these domain or maybe on a cname would be nice by example centova.quebechosting.net
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• 379[08:07:03] <rockworld> these is not much documentation about that on the internet
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• 382[08:08:40] <rockworld> but I tryed to change centovacast port to 80 like they say in the tutorial, it doesnt work cause apache use the same port
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• 385[08:12:32] <rockworld> thank you too
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• 404[08:41:11] <jelly> rockworld, you pasted the file from vim, line 6 is wrapped and we don't see the whole line. Even given that there's a missing / before var
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• 406[08:46:28] <jelly> rockworld, the centova page says you MAY enable port 80, but you don't NEED it. Create a new VirtualHost for the desired ServerName, put DocumentRoot wherever, and use correct Alias line from centova's Example: Apache
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• 416[09:04:56] <rockworld> jelly: thank you I just got the message Im gonna try to figure it out
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• 432[09:20:41] <rockworld> jelly: replaced-url
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• 435[09:22:06] <rockworld> I created a new virtualhost but not sure if it could work like that
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• 438[09:24:16] <jelly> rockworld, you're missing DocumentRoot but it doesn't matter, now do an "apachectl configtest" and reload the apache2 service if it thinks the config is fine
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• 442[09:25:29] <rockworld> hum what should be the documentroot by example
• 443[09:26:08] <rockworld> it says syntax ok sounds good
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• 445[09:27:27] <rockworld> ah right /var/replaced-url
• 446[09:27:47] <rockworld> I forgot to add that
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• 454[09:33:02] <jelly> it's just a directory where the web is served from
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• 457[09:34:38] <rockworld> ok I really appreciate your help I passed like the entire day on that
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• 461[09:36:53] <rockworld> I need to create a cname now I think to make it work on my domain
• 462[09:37:01] <jelly> indeed
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• 466[09:37:40] <jelly> you can test from your own machine by adding the right ip and new hostname to the local etc/hosts
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• 470[09:42:40] <rockworld> hum ok so it should be like that ? 192.99.37.50 cast.quebechosting.net
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• 473[09:43:54] <rockworld> I just added a cname I will see in 10min :)
• 474[09:45:23] <rockworld> I hope it work man "cross finger"
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• 479[09:49:17] <rockworld> :(
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• 481[09:49:44] <rockworld> I dont know what I did wrong
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• 483[09:51:25] <rockworld> replaced-url
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• 487[09:52:48] <rockworld> I only added "/var/replaced-url
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• 491[09:55:21] <rockworld> maybe I need to create the directory /.well-known/acme-challenge after /var/replaced-url
• 492[09:55:22] <rockworld> in the system I mean
• 493[09:55:22] <rockworld> thats really confusing
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• 498[09:56:23] <rockworld> jelly: maybe I need to create a symlink ?
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• 503[10:02:22] <jelly> rockworld, no, you don't need a symlink, Alias to the correct directory is enough
• 504[10:02:48] <jelly> do NOT add anything in front of /.well-known/acme-challenge
• 505[10:03:12] <jelly> left side of Alias is an URL path. Right side is a directory.
• 506[10:04:39] <rockworld> ok thank you I will modify
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• 513[10:09:16] <rockworld> hum it says url not found
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• 516[10:11:59] <jelly> what does?
• 517[10:12:41] <rockworld> replaced-url
• 518[10:13:44] <jelly> rockworld, you're only creating this site to make acme-challenge path work for LE.
• 519[10:13:56] <jelly> it doesn't have to work otherwise
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• 521[10:14:37] <rockworld> what LE means sorry
• 522[10:14:44] <jelly> LetsEncrypt
• 523[10:14:52] <rockworld> yes
• 524[10:15:49] <jelly> rockworld, however: I tried replaced-url
• 525[10:16:20] <jelly> rockworld, which access log did my test end up in?
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• 527[10:16:41] <jelly> look at the files /var/log/apache2/*.log
• 528[10:17:03] <jelly> and find jelly-tests in there
• 529[10:17:07] <rockworld> ok :)
• 530[10:17:54] <ratrace> doesn't certbot set all that magic up?
• 531[10:18:38] <rockworld> theres is a lot of files log
• 532[10:19:10] <rockworld> ratrace: it should but I need to create alias thats a real pain in the head
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• 537[10:21:09] <jelly> ratrace, for some random app in a random /opt dir listening on port 2199?
• 538[10:21:56] <rockworld> "GET /.well-known/acme-challenge/jelly-tests
• 539[10:21:56] <ratrace> jelly: I don't know that part. I just thought certbot was that kitchen-sink system with all the magic coming preinstalled with it, nginx and/or apache configs includes
• 540[10:21:59] <jelly> if certbot does that I'm switching from dehydrated, presto
• 541[10:22:11] <ratrace> jelly: noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
• 542[10:22:25] <ratrace> I use dehydrated and I wouldn't give that up for ten wagons of tea biscuits!
• 543[10:22:36] <rockworld> the alias seems good
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• 545[10:23:02] <rockworld> haha :)
• 546[10:23:04] <jelly> mostly I use it because it works on like debian 6-7 and everything above, without frivolous python deps
• 547[10:23:17] <ratrace> rockworld: for nginx at least, it's dead simple. location /.well-known/acme-challenge/ { alias /var/lib/dehydrated/acme-challenges/; } is the stanza I use with for dehydrated. it's a static include file I include in every domain's server {} section
• 548[10:23:44] <jelly> you can transplant a new curl and dehydrated on horribly old installations to make things work
• 549[10:23:56] <ratrace> jelly: the fact that it's a single shell script you can literally download from GH whe the debian package is terribly late in updates and LE Changed APIs so all 200+ certs of your clients are waiting in queue...... it's priceless :)
• 550[10:24:08] <ratrace> I can't imagine the behemoth certbot being anywhere near that simple to use.
• 551[10:24:16] <jelly> ratrace, I just install .deb from stable on like wheezy :-)
• 552[10:24:33] <jelly> but grabbing upstream is fine too
• 553[10:25:05] <jelly> next up: making an ACME wrapper for MS certsrv, for internal sites
• 554[10:25:45] <ratrace> does that include LDAP with kerberos for AD simulation and local group policy with FreeIPA? :))
• 555[10:25:48] <jelly> dehydrated EVERYWHERE, public crap, internal crap, my own private crap
• 556[10:26:07] <jelly> work has a real AD, no need for simulation
• 557[10:26:22] <ratrace> dehydrated's hook.sh is so damn powerful, you integrate with any level of sophistication needed
• 558[10:26:26] <jelly> I'll have to look up how ubuntu 21.04 did GPO for linuxes.
• 559[10:27:17] <jelly> I could do that and use MS proprietary APIs but then other vendor services won't be able to use the local CA
• 560[10:27:23] <ratrace> jelly: the joke was "You need to install FreeIPA, LDAP, kerberos, java 1.8 that bootstraps java 1.6, and patch the kernel with a few specific hyper-v functions, to get a single LE cert" :)
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• 564[10:27:59] <jelly> ratrace, one man's joke is another's Tuesday"
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• 566[10:28:03] <ratrace> hahaha
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• 569[10:29:07] <jelly> I'm literally having to coerce linux desktops to ask for a kerberos ticket the EXACT way Windows desktop does
• 570[10:29:14] <rockworld> lol replaced-url
• 571[10:29:21] <rockworld> there is nothing in that folder :/
• 572[10:29:27] <rockworld> so thats the reason why it wont work
• 573[10:29:52] <jelly> rockworld, chmod 755 /usr/local/centovacast/etc/ssl/acme-challenges
• 574[10:30:05] <jelly> or at least 751
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• 576[10:30:14] <jelly> otherwise apache can't read from there
• 577[10:30:33] <rockworld> alright
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• 579[10:31:01] <jelly> it's okay that there's nothing there, the files get deleted right after use
• 580[10:31:11] <rockworld> ah maybe
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• 582[10:32:05] <ratrace> eeek, is that a chroot I smell there?
• 583[10:32:09] <rockworld> maybe I should give replaced-url
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• 586[10:33:26] <ratrace> jelly: btw, do you want a dehydrated apparmor profile? I built it since I didn't want to write privsep non-root wrappers for dehydrated (fetch as non-root, install as root)
• 587[10:33:42] <rockworld> x)
• 588[10:34:36] <shtrb> ratrace, please share it over salsa.debian.org and an MR
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• 590[10:36:45] <rockworld> their tutorials isnt working
• 591[10:37:06] <rockworld> Im wondering if thats the good directory
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• 594[10:40:10] <jelly> ratrace, I'd need profiles for more exposed stuff first if I ever got the time
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• 596[10:40:48] <jelly> rockworld, we kind of need more data than "isn't working" to even try to help
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• 598[10:41:00] <jelly> !ask
• 599[10:41:01] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on replaced-url
• 600[10:43:13] <jelly> but ratrace has a good idea -- if you want LetsEncrypt, it's worth to set up LetsEncypt for ALL the sites using a common tool, instead of using this specific app's support. Then let the specific app just read the certs in their usual place.
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• 605[10:46:32] <rockworld> I agree there is alway a solution
• 606[10:46:52] <rockworld> ratrace: what tools are you suggesting me ?
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• 609[10:48:50] <ratrace> rockworld: well I use dehydrated, but the idea here was to set up nginx or apache with acme-challenge aliases that's independent of the tool you use
• 610[10:48:52] <rockworld> your right jelly :) but my english is a bit dysfunctionnal it kinda hard to explain or express myself the right way im blocked :x
• 611[10:49:20] <ratrace> thing is I don't know how deep the certbot rabbit hole goes. tried it a few times, it's a beast with kitchen-sink functionality, highly opinionated, and I didn't like that
• 612[10:50:05] <rockworld> ratrace: Im gonna find some information about that thanks
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• 618[10:52:06] <ratrace> rockworld: so with dehydrated, the simplest use case is that you put the domain into /etc/dehydrated/domains.txt and run dehydrated -g -c (careful!! you can't merge options. -gc !== -g -c)
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• 620[10:52:44] <ratrace> rockworld: and then you can do two things: copy the cert and key into /etc/ssl/... somewhere (which I do), or you can alias the .well-known directly into dehydrated's /var/lib/...
• 621[10:53:01] <ratrace> the later is simplest, so you just run systemctl reload nginx.service after it's done
• 622[10:53:40] <ratrace> however ... dehydrated by itself doesn't handle errors or doesn't come with a cron or timer, so once you test it works manually, shove it in a cron or something, preferrably with output mailed to you every 3 months so you can get notified
• 623[10:53:47] <rockworld> I alway used apache but its probably not very different
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• 625[10:54:10] <jelly> you just set a different Alias
• 626[10:54:50] <jelly> Alias /.well-known/acme-challenge /var/lib/dehydrated/acme-challenges
• 627[10:54:58] <ratrace> I believe even with Apache you can set up a static file that you just include into each VirtualHost section
• 628[10:55:30] <jelly> correct, but it's one line anyway, so be it Include or Alias
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• 630[10:56:53] <jelly> parametrizing the whole ssl virtualhost setup so that the config looks the same and can be included for every VirtualHost is probably too complex with apache
• 631[10:57:05] <ratrace> jelly: I forgot my apache things, but isn't tehrer also a Directory entry allowing reads from the dir?
• 632[10:57:13] <ratrace> or can that be common, outside of VirtualHost, for all vhosts?
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• 636[10:59:58] <jelly> it can be outside, but if you have grandfathered config apache is allowed to read any file anywhere, unix permissions permitting
• 637[11:00:03] <jelly> # Disable access to the entire file system except for the directories that
• 638[11:00:03] <jelly> # are explicitly allowed later.
• 639[11:00:14] <rockworld> well, at least I tryed :p tomorrow is gonna be another day I think I will contact their support and ask
• 640[11:01:17] <rockworld> but people doesnt have any support from them since a while
• 641[11:02:07] <rockworld> I had a lot of problem just to install the centovacast server with debian 10
• 642[11:02:22] <rockworld> it was mainly stable on debian 9
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• 644[11:02:31] <rockworld> but a lot of package are not updatable
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• 724[12:52:27] <n0cto> Hey ya'll. What's your opinion on using Debian over Ubuntu?
• 725[12:53:46] <CommunistWolf> debiain > ubuntu
• 726[12:53:57] <shtrb> !ubuntu
• 727[12:53:57] <dpkg> Ubuntu is based on Debian, but it is not Debian. Only Debian is supported on #debian. Use #ubuntu on chat.freenode.net instead. Even if the channel happens to be less helpful, support for distributions other than Debian is offtopic on #debian. See also <based on debian> and <ubuntuirc>.
• 728[12:54:31] <n0cto> but why is debian > ubuntu
• 729[12:54:37] <CommunistWolf> because I said so
• 730[12:55:43] <jelly> n0cto, we're in #debian, what kind of opinion do you expect?
• 731[12:55:57] <CommunistWolf> a flamewar, one assumes
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• 734[12:56:43] <jelly> !why debian
• 735[12:56:43] <dpkg> Debian strives to maintain your freedom whilst also paying close attention to the technical aspects of making a great OS. Debian is stable, upgradable and well tested. See also replaced-url
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• 737[12:57:46] <jelly> n0cto, for me, Debian is more predictable and that is important for a platform.
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• 743[13:00:27] <Miles8of9> any info on bullseye release date?
• 744[13:00:34] <jelly> !wwbr
• 745[13:00:34] <dpkg> Now Debian "Bullseye" is the current testing branch as of 2019-07-06 and it will be released "when it's ready."
• 746[13:00:48] <jelly> !rc bugs
• 747[13:00:48] <dpkg> Release-Critical bugs are Debian bugs with critical, grave or serious severities, preventing the next release of Debian. See the graph at replaced-url
• 748[13:00:55] <CommunistWolf> feels like only yesterday we released buster
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• 750[13:01:18] <jelly> Miles8of9, ^ when the green line drops to zero
• 751[13:01:40] * jelly goes to file more rc bugs
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• 753[13:02:44] <Miles8of9> lol 216!!
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• 755[13:03:23] <Miles8of9> well... it's less buggy than buster.... buster has 516!!
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• 757[13:05:17] <Miles8of9> Maintainer: Debian Borg Collective <team+borg@tracker.debian.org> <--- borgbackup! oh now we are bugged!!! >_<
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• 765[13:10:36] <ratrace> jelly: stahp that! there was less than 216 few days ago! :)
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• 768[13:11:31] <ratrace> also, I don't get the blue line.... rc bugs increasing for already released stable...
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• 799[13:47:32] <shtrb> Will byllseye arrive in a cube ?
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• 801[13:48:54] <shtrb> Miles8of9, it will assimilate all the files
• 802[13:49:27] <Miles8of9> :D
• 803[13:49:29] <shtrb> Miles8of9, just remember to find seven of nine
• 804[13:49:37] <Miles8of9> sure
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• 841[14:28:10] <xok> Hello all...
• 842[14:28:20] <gatty> hi :)
• 843[14:28:24] <xok> I am trying to build a Debian buster image with live-build ( lb )..
• 844[14:28:52] <xok> I'm getting the error: cp: cannot stat ‘/usr/share/live/build/data/debian-cd/buster/amd64_netinst_udeb_include’: No such file or directory
• 845[14:29:16] <xok> What I've figured out is that - this happens when I run either lb build or lb binary
• 846[14:29:30] <xok> it doesn't create a live CD image ( ISO file )...
• 847[14:29:36] <xok> Can anyone help me with the problem?..
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• 853[14:36:41] <flying_sausages> hey everyone, I'd like to get the deb for the arm64 package for calibre from unstable, any pointers on how? replaced-url
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• 855[14:36:57] <flying_sausages> I'd like to try install just the deb on ubuntu and try match the dependencies myself
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• 860[14:41:12] <tarzeau_> flying_sausages: this? replaced-url
• 861[14:41:39] <tarzeau_> flying_sausages: at the bottom you can download the deb
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• 866[14:45:25] <flying_sausages> gotcha, cheers
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• 891[15:06:33] <dastier> Hello. 'apt show gcc-8-base -a' shows I have gcc-8-base Version: 8.3.0-7 (installed) and 8.3.0-6 (that I'd like to install to meet the build-essential package reqs). How can I install exactly gcc-8-base 8.3.0-6? Debian Buster, apt-get -f install shows no errors.
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• 899[15:10:44] <jelly> ,v gcc-8-base
• 900[15:10:45] <judd> Package: gcc-8-base on amd64 -- buster: 8.3.0-6
• 901[15:10:58] <ratrace> uh-oh
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• 903[15:11:27] <jelly> dastier, where did you get 8.3.0-7 from, did you at some point in the past have repos for a branch newer than buster, enabled?
• 904[15:11:30] <dastier> I don't remember when and why (and from where) I installed that
• 905[15:11:46] <dastier> yes, it is possible
• 906[15:11:56] <jelly> dastier, you'll have to downgrade to the version from buster.
• 907[15:12:34] <jelly> dastier, show your "apt-cache policy" and "apt-cache policy gcc-8-base" output.
• 908[15:12:53] <dastier> exactly, I just need a hint
• 909[15:12:59] <jelly> then consider excising the package versions that aren't from buster
• 910[15:13:05] <jelly> !not available
• 911[15:13:05] <dpkg> To get a list of packages you have installed now, that are not available from any repository in your sources.list: aptitude search '?narrow(?not(?archive("^[^n][^o].*$")),?version(CURRENT))'
• 912[15:13:40] <jelly> dastier, apt install package=explicitversion is the syntax to use for a single package
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• 914[15:16:45] <dastier> jelly, thanks, that is what I wanted to know. But is suggests removing the base packages such as apt etc. I'll prepare the list of apt-cache policy
• 915[15:18:09] <jelly> those packages it wants to remove...
• 916[15:18:11] <jelly> !bat
• 917[15:18:11] <dpkg> [Basic Apt* Troubleshooting]. To diagnose your problem, we need ALL OF THE FOLLOWING information: 1. complete output of your apt-get/apt/aptitude run (including the command used) 2. output from "apt-cache policy pkg1 pkg2..." for ALL packages mentioned ANYWHERE in the problem, and 3. "apt-cache policy". Use replaced-url
• 918[15:18:13] <jelly> ^
• 919[15:18:40] <jelly> it's likely you installed crap from testing and there will be no easy way back to a clean buster
• 920[15:19:04] <jelly> we'll see when you show all the info
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• 923[15:21:45] <dastier> you are correct
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• 925[15:22:05] <dastier> apt-cache policy: replaced-url
• 926[15:22:12] <dastier> apt-cache policy gcc-8-base replaced-url
• 927[15:23:41] <dastier> and my goal is to get python 3.8 installed
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• 929[15:25:04] <jelly> ,v python3.8
• 930[15:25:05] <judd> No package named 'python3.8' was found in amd64.
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• 932[15:25:11] <jelly> ,v python3.9
• 933[15:25:12] <judd> Package: python3.9 on amd64 -- bullseye: 3.9.2-1; sid: 3.9.2-1; experimental: 3.9.4-1
• 934[15:25:15] <dastier> I consider upgrading to bullseye if that autofix the issue ;)
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• 936[15:25:33] <jelly> dastier, you'd get python3.9 on bullseye, not 3.8
• 937[15:26:21] <dastier> I was going to install python3.8 from sources into /opt. that is why I need the build-essential and gcc
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• 939[15:27:00] <jelly> if 3.9 is okay, and you have backups, go with buster->bullseye
• 940[15:27:43] <cws> dastier: It would be far easier to use pyenv for whatever you're going for.
• 941[15:27:47] <dastier> btw, 3.9 sould be OK for local dev. Yes, thank you a lot! It will be easier.
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• 943[15:28:11] <dastier> I really appreciate your help!
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• 949[15:30:18] <dastier> cws, agree, I forgot about this option, thanks
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• 1018[16:53:40] <hejux> hi
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• 1028[17:09:25] <raub> What is the replacement for preseed?
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• 1030[17:11:18] <jelly> why would there be a replacement
• 1031[17:11:46] <jelly> raub, d-i still supports preseed, what's the problem?
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• 1164[19:45:18] <Hash> replaced-url
• 1165[19:45:44] <Hash> Someone liked my comment. Highlighted. Cool.
• 1166[19:46:03] <Hash> If anything, I love the debian installer, text based, the gui is just ... I don't care about it.
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• 1168[19:46:26] <diogenes_> yeah because he finds Debian difficult to install.
• 1169[19:47:01] <horseshoecrab> developer in disliking system administration shocker!
• 1170[19:47:03] <Hash> It's like any other installer. You do the partitions, the disk things, other things, etc.
• 1171[19:47:19] <Hash> Some more stuff and things.
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• 1174[19:49:04] <Hash> The problem with debian isn't really the installer. It's everything after.
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• 1177[19:49:45] <Hash> It's too tedious. That's my gripe, always has been. What made me turn to Ubuntu was I didn't have to do much of anything. No tedious system configs, nothing.
• 1178[19:50:10] <Hash> Just... do stuff for me, Debian. Why you gotta make ME do stuff? I'm not a hard working man.
• 1179[19:51:55] <somiaj> What you see as a problem, others may see as a feature. I like that Debian doesn't try to assume a lot about what I want, provides me lots of options, and allows me to configure things in a way that suit my needs.
• 1180[19:52:01] <Hash> And people say, oh it's easy to do. Sure. I don't care whether it's easier or harder, it's just too much to make a user do. That's just too much.
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• 1182[19:52:50] <somiaj> I can start from a minimial install of a base system, and install only the software I want to use, and configure it to my needs.
• 1183[19:52:56] <Hash> I get that.
• 1184[19:53:04] <Hash> But I want debian and not have to do any of that.
• 1185[19:53:10] <Hash> Make that happen for people like me.
• 1186[19:53:18] <Hash> I will love you long time.
• 1187[19:53:25] <somiaj> There is a reason so many distros are based off of debian, it provides a really solid ground to build what you want.
• 1188[19:53:26] <Hash> Already going on 20 years of lovin
• 1189[19:53:55] <Hash> I don't want to make a distro or do much of anything, and yet, still have debian pure/official.
• 1190[19:54:02] <greycat> how is Keep Hitting Enter Until It's Done too hard for you?
• 1191[19:54:04] <Hash> You can do it! I believe in you gys.
• 1192[19:54:13] <somiaj> I personally don't want that, there is no defaults that most users will want, so keep the minmial is fine in my opinon, and let the time be focused on ensuring a large range of software choices and quality packages.
• 1193[19:54:31] <Hash> That's one way to look at it.
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• 1195[19:55:21] <Hash> Another way is here's a default config for you lazy people. For rest, you know what you want, so do it yourself.
• 1196[19:55:34] <somiaj> Hash: I took time to configure debian + fvwm once about 15 years ago. Now I can install my packages, copy over my configs, and done, I have the setup I want, very little time.
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• 1198[19:56:32] <somiaj> Debian does provide defaults, they are just often minimial and seem to not be to your liking.
• 1199[19:56:38] <Hash> I put all my system stuff in private git repo. Install a new system, clone my repo, run script (to copy things over), done.
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• 1202[20:00:06] <Hash> Well, it's not that they're not to my liking. They're just not enough where I can just install and desktop and everything works. over 2 decades, and usb auto mount is still a blooyd PITA in debian.
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• 1204[20:00:17] <Hash> I mean, there are some basic things and there are some things a user needs to do.
• 1205[20:00:25] <Hash> We are missing a lot of the basics.
• 1206[20:00:51] <Hash> Debian, when installed, does not feel like an OS
• 1207[20:01:09] <Hash> It claims to be Universal OS, but it doesn't feel like it. Where is the universality?
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• 1209[20:01:23] <tarzeau_> Hash: what can you not do with debian?
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• 1212[20:02:22] <tarzeau_> Hash: if you know a larger somehow together fitting collection of free software, tell me: replaced-url
• 1213[20:02:31] <Hash> I don't want to have to resort to another debian "BASED" distro just so I can save myself work/time/effort.
• 1214[20:02:44] <Hash> Then the downside is, those are not supported here by official debia people
• 1215[20:02:49] <Hash> So it's a double whammy :(
• 1216[20:03:20] <Hash> So if you become defensive this conversation is over right now.
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• 1218[20:03:37] <Hash> No hope for any frutiful discussion if there is defensiveness involved about your feelings toward debian.
• 1219[20:03:43] <greycat> Oh, it's already over.
• 1220[20:03:44] <synack> Hash: you don't have to like it, there are plenty of other distros you can choose from. why do you feel like you need to come here and complain about it?
• 1221[20:03:51] <Hash> This requires a terrible and brutal sort of honesty
• 1222[20:03:55] <tarzeau_> was i defensive? am i official debian people?
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• 1224[20:04:23] <Hash> An sort of honesty where even your own mind cannot decieve itself, nevermind anyone else.
• 1225[20:04:24] <tarzeau_> synack: the point is, nothing (no other distro) is nowhere near as great or big as debian
• 1226[20:04:43] <Hash> Anyway, criticism is rarely taken well.
• 1227[20:04:43] <synack> I'm not sure "great" and "big" are really important factors in choosing an operating system
• 1228[20:04:52] <synack> use the tool that solves your problem
• 1229[20:05:04] <Hash> tarzeau_: well yes, that's the reason I'm still in love with it.
• 1230[20:05:16] <Hash> But one can be in love with something and still identify issues and problems in it.
• 1231[20:05:24] <synack> it's open source, you're welcome to try to fix it
• 1232[20:05:32] <Hash> I've often noteiced over the course of the two decades of being here, that criticism is never well recieved.
• 1233[20:05:54] *** Joins: astrofog (~astrofog@replaced-ip)
• 1234[20:06:02] <jmcnaught> What exactly is the criticism, that it sometimes requires some configuration?
• 1235[20:06:08] <Hash> Correct.
• 1236[20:06:21] *** Joins: otisolsen70_ (~otisolsen@replaced-ip)
• 1237[20:06:36] <Hash> I would add more. It requires more than most other distros.
• 1238[20:06:37] <jmcnaught> Install GNOME if you don't like setting things up.
• 1239[20:06:56] <Hash> There are multiple optinos but none are fully cohesive.
• 1240[20:07:02] <Hash> If that makes sense.
• 1241[20:07:11] <tdfischer> patches welcome <3
• 1242[20:07:11] <Hash> Gnome/KDE etc. etc.
• 1243[20:07:13] *** Quits: is0ke3 (~is0ke3@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 1244[20:07:28] *** Parts: manid2 (~dam@replaced-ip) ()
• 1245[20:07:54] <greycat> It has been my experience that patches are usually not welcome.
• 1246[20:08:12] *** Quits: otisolsen70_ (~otisolsen@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1247[20:08:13] <Hash> That's ... that sucks. :(
• 1248[20:08:35] <greycat> if it's sent to Debian, they reject it because they don't want to deviate from upstream, and if you send it upstream, they reject it because you're not part of their team or whatever
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• 1252[20:09:07] <greycat> or because the maintainer's vision doesn't match yours, etc.
• 1253[20:09:20] <tdfischer> there's conventions that debian follows. when I started messing around with it I didn't know any of those conventions and couldn't find documentation so I found it incredibly frustrating to use
• 1254[20:09:25] *** Joins: is0ke3 (~is0ke3@replaced-ip)
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• 1256[20:09:45] <Hash> Eh. 20 years is plenty to get to know the innards of your OS.
• 1257[20:09:54] <Hash> Still though. I've become a very lazy man.
• 1258[20:09:59] <Hash> Do things for me! Damn you.
• 1259[20:10:21] *** Joins: heyoka (~heyoka@replaced-ip)
• 1260[20:10:29] <synack> lots of people will do things for money
• 1261[20:10:30] *** Joins: xet7 (~xet7@replaced-ip)
• 1262[20:10:37] <synack> few people will do things for no money
• 1263[20:10:40] <Hash> Also, give me money.
• 1264[20:10:43] <Hash> :D
• 1265[20:10:52] <tdfischer> but ultimately its a huge decentralized project ran by volunteers who jealously guard their time and energy, rightfully so, and they've got the right to not accept patches, just as much as we all have the right to build a better FOSS ecosystem where people don't feel bad for getting patches rejected
• 1266[20:11:44] <Hash> jealously guard.
• 1267[20:11:59] <Hash> You say it as if that's a bloody virtue or something.
• 1268[20:12:13] <synack> I like the SQLite project's stance on patches: you can send them, but we aren't obligated to merge or even respond to them, and we'll probably rewrite it anyway, but if you insist, you can give us money and we'll make a special snowflake build just for you
• 1269[20:12:16] <Hash> Perhaps that's the very thing causing toxicity in this culture.
• 1270[20:12:44] <tdfischer> yeah, self care and self determination are pretty important
• 1271[20:12:55] <greycat> and that's fine, but my point is, "patches welcome <3" is just wrong almost all of the time
• 1272[20:13:34] <Hash> And there is nothing rightful about that sort of mentality.
• 1273[20:14:12] <tdfischer> I dunno, seems pretty bad to hand over all of your time-management to randos on the 'net who have radically different priorities
• 1274[20:15:05] <Hash> I notice tdfischer that your arguments are usually arguements by extreme.
• 1275[20:15:24] <Hash> It's either this or that. What happened to balance?
• 1276[20:15:35] *** Joins: aayt97 (~root@replaced-ip)
• 1277[20:16:20] <tdfischer> I dunno, you're the one applying a black-and-white lens to my fluffy statements of what I think is important, not me
• 1278[20:16:21] <Hash> My time management is still done by randos on the Internet who make all this software.
• 1279[20:17:01] <Hash> I mean if you think FOSS offers you any form of control, that is also an illusion.
• 1280[20:17:27] <Hash> Where would you be without the rest of the people codign for you?
• 1281[20:17:38] <Hash> Would you make your own OS from scratch? 100% full blown?
• 1282[20:17:49] <synack> if there were no better options, sure
• 1283[20:17:58] *** Quits: maggotbrain (~maggotbra@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1284[20:18:01] <synack> that's how we got all the operating systems that exist now
• 1285[20:18:04] *** Quits: Stx (~stx@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
• 1286[20:18:18] <tdfischer> I mean, if you feel the locus of control over your life decisions is in the hands of anyone other than yourself, there's probably some soul searching needed
• 1287[20:18:33] <Hash> Well, you dont' decide how debian fits
• 1288[20:19:03] <Hash> So, most of the software you use, wasn't decided by you in how it works, what it should do or shouldn't do.
• 1289[20:19:11] *** Joins: maggotbrain (~maggotbra@replaced-ip)
• 1290[20:19:12] <tdfischer> yeah, i'm pretty fine with that
• 1291[20:19:15] <Hash> You're still controlled by programmers who write this software
• 1292[20:19:21] <tdfischer> I'm not an expert in how to handle IRQs but I trust that linux devs are
• 1293[20:19:24] <Hash> Close source or open soure, you're still controlled by others.
• 1294[20:19:27] <tdfischer> "controlled" lol
• 1295[20:19:30] <synack> no, because i can choose to change those things if I don't agree with how they work
• 1296[20:19:39] <synack> but most of the time, it's good enough and I don't care
• 1297[20:19:41] <Hash> And how many people practically konw how to change things
• 1298[20:19:48] <Hash> You maybe lucky and have the skills, sure.
• 1299[20:19:51] <Hash> But most peopel don't.
• 1300[20:20:00] <synack> uh, it's not luck. I spent years learning how to control my environment.
• 1301[20:20:01] <tdfischer> I decide how debian fits into my life, and my decision since I jumped into FOSS has been "use Fedora". regardless, I'm in this channel because I still use debian once in a while and like to keep tabs on the community
• 1302[20:20:17] *** Parts: aayt97 (~root@replaced-ip) ()
• 1303[20:20:18] <Hash> Lucky that your brain had such an interest.
• 1304[20:20:29] *** Joins: aayt97 (~root@replaced-ip)
• 1305[20:20:30] <Hash> What if you weren't inerested in computers at all?
• 1306[20:20:41] <synack> then I wouldn't really give a damn about the debian installer, would I?
• 1307[20:20:46] <Hash> Exactly.
• 1308[20:20:47] <tdfischer> if I disagree with how fedora or debian are ran, I'm blessed with the skills to be able to build my own distribution from scratch
• 1309[20:21:02] <Hash> That's wonderful
• 1310[20:21:06] <Hash> For you, for me, for him, for us
• 1311[20:21:11] <Hash> But there are countless who cannot.
• 1312[20:21:19] <synack> and they can choose to use something else
• 1313[20:21:21] *** Joins: [T] (Dan@replaced-ip)
• 1314[20:21:21] <tdfischer> if I didn't have those skills then, well, I suppose I would either learn them or pick another distro or learn to accept the things in my life I cannot change
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• 1320[20:21:36] <Hash> You guys
• 1321[20:21:40] <tdfischer> that last one is particularly difficult, but very worthwhile
• 1322[20:21:42] <Hash> Are FREAKING impossible
• 1323[20:21:45] <Hash> alright
• 1324[20:21:46] <Hash> screw you guys
• 1325[20:21:48] <Hash> I'm goin ghome
• 1326[20:21:48] <tdfischer> thanks, I'm extremely gay
• 1327[20:21:51] <Hash> no no
• 1328[20:21:55] <Hash> Screw you guys
• 1329[20:21:58] <Hash> home.
• 1330[20:22:46] <synack> Hash: you show up in #debian, complain about debian, but refuse to learn or build anything different... why should we care?
• 1331[20:22:53] <tdfischer> no need to announce, most people just leave the channel or close their irc client
• 1332[20:23:22] <Hash> cartman, southpark, jocular.
• 1333[20:23:44] <tdfischer> yeah, showing up in a community that has its mind set on a certain trajectory based on certain values and then demanding all that change usually doesn't fly
• 1334[20:23:49] <Hash> synack: no, I've been here since 2000. You just showed up.
• 1335[20:24:22] <Hash> And it's over. No need to throw oils on fires. Let's just use whatever you want to use.
• 1336[20:24:25] <tdfischer> cool story, its 2020 now though
• 1337[20:24:35] <Hash> Don't be one of those 4chan cool story douches
• 1338[20:24:39] <Hash> Come on man. Be cool.
• 1339[20:24:50] <greycat> it's... not.
• 1340[20:24:57] <jmcnaught> tdfischer: welcome to the future!
• 1341[20:24:59] <tdfischer> lmao
• 1342[20:25:04] <tdfischer> yeah, meant 2021
• 1343[20:25:14] <jelly> greycat, the 2020 is as eternal as the September
• 1344[20:25:23] <greycat> I know if feels like the 2047th month of 2020, but it's not
• 1345[20:25:25] <tdfischer> its what, March 385th?
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• 1348[20:26:20] <Hash> tdfischer: I need whatever you're smoking.
• 1349[20:26:26] <Hash> That's some strong stuff. Gimme!
• 1350[20:27:21] <tdfischer> anyways, you're not making friends right now by saying things that come off as bragging like "I've been here for 21 years" when the debian of today isn't even comparable to the debian of 2015, or even 2019
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• 1354[20:28:05] <Hash> If this is all it takes for you to not be able to form friendships, you have deeper issues in life that need solving.
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• 1372[20:28:28] <nkuttler> !ot
• 1373[20:28:28] <dpkg> #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
• 1374[20:28:29] *** schizo- is now known as schizo
• 1375[20:28:33] <greycat> the Debian of today is exactly the same as the Debian of 2019, but there'll be a new release this year probably
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• 1377[20:28:41] <Hash> lol
• 1378[20:28:46] *** Joins: dr65758 (uid497640@replaced-ip)
• 1379[20:28:51] <dr65758> hi
• 1380[20:28:54] <Hash> Debian > *
• 1381[20:28:56] *** Joins: introom (introom@replaced-ip)
• 1382[20:29:25] <dr65758> Does the current debian release's kernel have SMACK available?
• 1383[20:29:32] *** Quits: fstd (~fstd@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1384[20:29:32] <tdfischer> projects change, code changes, communities change. if you want to make some changes despite resistance, find some friends who agree that change must be made and collaborate on how to effect that change. ad hominem attacks on people you've literally just met less than an hour ago isn't that. have a blessed day Hash.
• 1385[20:29:37] <dr65758> Couldn't find any docs on this
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• 1391[20:30:10] <dr65758> By SMACK i mean replaced-url
• 1392[20:30:15] <Hash> Shoudln't it be there since like 2.x
• 1393[20:30:24] <dr65758> it says so
• 1394[20:30:31] <dr65758> but couldnt find it
• 1395[20:30:37] <dr65758> How do I enable it?
• 1396[20:30:42] <Hash> hmm
• 1397[20:31:04] *** Joins: bolt (~r00t@replaced-ip)
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• 1399[20:31:34] *** Quits: nickname123 (~nickname1@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
• 1400[20:31:37] <jelly> dr65758, I thought that was a failed project?
• 1401[20:31:42] <dr65758> What?
• 1402[20:31:47] <dr65758> Isn't it active?
• 1403[20:32:02] <dr65758> "Since 2016, Smack is required in all Automotive Grade Linux (AGL) implementations"
• 1404[20:32:04] <dr65758> This too
• 1405[20:32:06] <jelly> doesn't everyone who likes MAC use selinux
• 1406[20:32:21] <Hash> it is the standard
• 1407[20:32:23] <dr65758> I know but this is just a fun side project
• 1408[20:32:28] * jelly has no idea what AGL is
• 1409[20:32:30] <dr65758> I am curious about how to use it
• 1410[20:32:38] *** Quits: bolt (~r00t@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1411[20:32:40] <Hash> Automotive controls
• 1412[20:32:53] *** Quits: maxdamage (~maxdamage@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 1413[20:33:33] <jelly> dunno, but if you need MAC at least there's a complete set of tools in debian. If not a set of working policies.
• 1414[20:33:33] <Hash> standardized way somethign soemthing
• 1415[20:33:33] <dr65758> replaced-url
• 1416[20:33:34] *** Joins: nickname123 (~nickname1@replaced-ip)
• 1417[20:33:34] <dr65758> But for that I need to enable the Smack module
• 1418[20:33:36] <dr65758> How would I ?
• 1419[20:33:48] <jhutchins> dr65758: It doesn't have user space functions.
• 1420[20:34:03] <greycat> unicorn:~$ grep SMACK /boot/config-5.10.0-6-amd64
• 1421[20:34:04] <greycat> # CONFIG_SECURITY_SMACK is not set
• 1422[20:34:10] <greycat> dunno whether that's it or not
• 1423[20:34:14] *** Joins: Celmor[m] (celmormatr@replaced-ip)
• 1424[20:34:24] <jelly> that's probably it. It's a LSM.
• 1425[20:34:46] <dr65758> So there isn't a module I load?
• 1426[20:35:11] <jelly> basically someone's toy project... that for who knows what reason a part of automotive industry has adopted?
• 1427[20:35:20] <dr65758> Like modprobe something ?
• 1428[20:35:36] <dr65758> I mean is there a module I enable for smack?
• 1429[20:35:38] <jelly> dr65758, if it's not built, it's not built
• 1430[20:35:41] <Hash> replaced-url
• 1431[20:35:46] <jelly> you'd need your own kernel
• 1432[20:36:02] <dr65758> Like compile own kernel?
• 1433[20:36:10] <Hash> Custom yes
• 1434[20:36:19] <jelly> if there's no kernel support, and no userspace tools, we can safely say Debian does not support the thing
• 1435[20:36:19] <greycat> it's looking that way
• 1436[20:36:23] <Hash> Just specify whatever you want and rebuilt. It's not hard.
• 1437[20:36:26] <dr65758> Isn't it there from 2.x ?
• 1438[20:36:36] <Hash> It's in the mainline
• 1439[20:36:49] <dr65758> Oh, debian does not use the mainline kernel?
• 1440[20:36:59] <greycat> are you ... like ... not ON debian yourself? is that why you aren't running your own grep SMACK commands to see whether it's there in yours?
• 1441[20:37:00] <jelly> dr65758, linux kernel SOURCE has many tunables and options. Not all have to be compiled.
• 1442[20:37:20] *** Quits: AskerX (5b86f7ca@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed)
• 1443[20:37:25] <dr65758> I am on debian but new to it. I come from other distros
• 1444[20:37:34] <dr65758> So does debian use the mainline kernel or its own?
• 1445[20:37:39] <greycat> your kernel's config should be in /boot/config-$(uname -r)
• 1446[20:38:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 992
• 1447[20:38:10] <dr65758> replaced-url
• 1448[20:38:14] <greycat> it's a stable mainline kernel with many patches
• 1449[20:38:15] <dr65758> This is what I get
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• 1452[20:38:48] <jelly> dr65758, that means smack support is not compiled in.
• 1453[20:38:57] *** Joins: cosimone (~user@replaced-ip)
• 1454[20:38:59] <jelly> the kernel is built without smack support.
• 1455[20:39:08] <dr65758> it's a stable mainline kernel with many patches -- So if I understand correctly the mainline kernel has smack support
• 1456[20:39:16] <dr65758> Correct?
• 1457[20:39:19] *** Joins: bolt (~r00t@replaced-ip)
• 1458[20:39:46] <dr65758> @greycat
• 1459[20:40:04] <jelly> dr65758, again. the SOURCE code has support for many things. Not all the things are necessarily enabled in each build. Debian's build options do not seem to include SMACK.
• 1460[20:40:06] <greycat> do you somehow not understand that various kernel features may be enabled or disabled by the compile-time choices?
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• 1463[20:40:54] <jhutchins> dr65758: If you don't understand kernel config files you're probably over your head trying to mess with smack, and it doesn't sound like you've done much reading on smack either.
• 1464[20:41:12] <jelly> linux kernel is rather modular and there are hundreds, probably thousands of things that the source code supports, but that you can disable or enable in any particular compilation
• 1465[20:41:27] *** Quits: bgpepi (~Petar@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 1466[20:42:03] <dr65758> I understand kernel compilation options. What I was asking was: While the mainline Linux SOURCE code has support for SMACK from 2.x onwards the kernel that comes with Debian does not?
• 1467[20:42:12] <jelly> dr65758, # CONFIG_FOO is not set ... means that a) there is support for FOO in source and b) it was omitted from this build
• 1468[20:42:16] *** Joins: dreamon (~dreamon@replaced-ip)
• 1469[20:42:22] <dr65758> Thanks
• 1470[20:42:24] <jelly> dr65758, correct
• 1471[20:42:35] <dr65758> Who omitted it from this build?
• 1472[20:42:43] <greycat> the Debian kernel team
• 1473[20:43:00] <greycat> or whoever built the kernel you're using, if you aren't using a standard Debian one
• 1474[20:43:00] <dr65758> Why would they omit SMACK?
• 1475[20:43:03] *** Parts: synack (~synack@replaced-ip) ()
• 1476[20:43:11] <greycat> because nobody uses it or knows what it is?
• 1477[20:43:17] <jelly> right
• 1478[20:43:49] <greycat> I'd certainly never heard of it before. Neither has our bot.
• 1479[20:43:50] <greycat> !smack
• 1480[20:43:50] <dpkg> WAAAH! THAT HURTS!
• 1481[20:43:52] <Hash> Why do you want to use SMACK?! Drugs are bad. Mmkay
• 1482[20:44:35] <dr65758> or whoever built the kernel you're using, if you aren't using a standard Debian one - I am using the Linux kernel that comes when installing from the Testing ISO
• 1483[20:45:03] <dr65758> So that is built by the Debian kernel team?
• 1484[20:45:13] <dr65758> @greycat
• 1485[20:45:37] <greycat> yes
• 1486[20:45:38] *** Joins: conta (Thunderbir@replaced-ip)
• 1487[20:45:47] <dr65758> Thanks
• 1488[20:46:04] <dr65758> If SMACK is not well known, why would wikipedia have an article on it?
• 1489[20:46:15] *** Quits: conta (Thunderbir@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 1490[20:46:20] <greycat> *plonk*
• 1491[20:47:06] <dr65758> > If SMACK is not well known, why would wikipedia have an article on it?
• 1492[20:47:10] <jelly> dr65758, that doesn't seem to be a question that #debian can answer
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• 1494[20:47:38] <Hash> Well I mean it seems like a requirement?
• 1495[20:47:39] <dr65758> Who would know the answer?
• 1496[20:47:42] <Hash> For the auto motive linux thing?
• 1497[20:47:48] <dr65758> Yeah, I guess
• 1498[20:47:48] <Hash> Is this why you have to use it?
• 1499[20:47:57] <Hash> Is there another auto motive app making thing you can use?
• 1500[20:48:02] <Hash> If it's just for hobby
• 1501[20:48:03] <jelly> dr65758, for speculation on wikipedia notability requirements, maybe find a wikipedia channel: /msg alis list wikipedia
• 1502[20:48:15] <jelly> and may $DEITY have mercy on their souls
• 1503[20:48:48] <jelly> there is a keyword in that article tho. It's Wind River
• 1504[20:48:50] <Hash> ,ai (comma ai, check it out)
• 1505[20:48:51] <dr65758> And whoever uses it already would have included that kernel compilation option of CONFIG_SECURITY_SMACK ?
• 1506[20:49:04] <Hash> You could experiment with environmentm mapping libs on mobile
• 1507[20:49:07] <Hash> make driving apps.
• 1508[20:49:11] <Hash> hud displays.
• 1509[20:49:31] <dr65758> But whoever uses SMACK presently's kernel would have included that kernel compilation option of CONFIG_SECURITY_SMACK ?
• 1510[20:49:42] <jelly> dr65758, yes
• 1511[20:49:48] <dr65758> Thanks
• 1512[20:49:50] <dr65758> What's wind river?
• 1513[20:50:14] <jelly> it's a company that has been using linux in embedded, closed products for decades
• 1514[20:50:29] <dr65758> Have you heard of it before?
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• 1516[20:51:20] <jelly> dr65758, how could I give that answer if I haven't heard of them before?
• 1517[20:51:42] <jelly> s/haven't/hadn't/
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• 1519[20:52:04] <dr65758> replaced-url
• 1520[20:52:11] <Hash> replaced-url
• 1521[20:52:21] <Hash> This seems to be packaged for ubuntu and not for debian.
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• 1523[20:52:42] <dr65758> It's just an abstraction layer for SMACK
• 1524[20:52:45] <dr65758> Not smack itself
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• 1526[20:53:43] <dr65758> @Hash
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• 1528[20:54:41] <dr65758> " and may $DEITY have mercy on their souls" What'd you mean by this? @Hash
• 1529[20:54:46] <jelly> dr65758, keep this channel for discussion of technical issues in and around Debian, please
• 1530[20:55:02] <somiaj> replaced-url
• 1531[20:55:03] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 1532[20:55:22] <jelly> ten years ago, that sounds about right
• 1533[20:55:30] <dr65758> I was just asking Hash what'd they mean by " and may $DEITY have mercy on their souls"
• 1534[20:55:40] <Hash> jelly said it.
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• 1536[20:55:48] <Hash> Eat him.
• 1537[20:56:00] <jelly> dr65758, don't do that. Keep to tech questions and answers please.
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• 1539[20:56:26] <dr65758> Ok jelly. But what'd you mean by " may $DEITY have mercy on their souls" ?
• 1540[20:56:47] <Hash> dr65758: to have this questio answered, go to #debian-offtopic
• 1541[20:56:55] <Hash> in #debian, try to keep technical questions only
• 1542[20:57:08] <dr65758> Ok
• 1543[20:57:11] <dr65758> I asked there
• 1544[20:57:49] <dr65758> Also where can I ask Debian kernel team about why they included or not included certain compilation options in their build?
• 1545[20:57:57] <Hash> You could email them.
• 1546[20:58:11] <dr65758> I mean in a real time chat like IRC
• 1547[20:58:11] <Hash> Or perhaps try #debian-boot on oftc maybe.
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• 1549[20:58:23] <Hash> Unless they have a diff channel for kernel stuffs now
• 1550[20:58:30] <dr65758> oftc?
• 1551[20:58:35] <Hash> !oftc
• 1552[20:58:35] <dpkg> OFTC is the Open and Free Technology Community, a support/collaboration service. They have an IRC network: irc.oftc.net. You may (or may not) be connected to OFTC's network. replaced-url
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• 1554[21:03:47] <dr65758> @Hash how was replaced-url
• 1555[21:03:49] <dr65758> Not smack itself
• 1556[21:05:01] <jelly> dr65758, I think we agree that there's no support for SMACK in Debian. Do you have another Debian question?
• 1557[21:05:19] <dr65758> I asked you in offtopic
• 1558[21:05:41] <mutante> you can use tomoyo for the same thing?
• 1559[21:05:57] <jelly> dr65758, keep offtopic in offtopic, and this channel for tech support
• 1560[21:06:11] <dr65758> And yeah I agree even replaced-url
• 1561[21:06:40] <jelly> dr65758, let me be blunt, if you don't have a debian tech question, keep quiet
• 1562[21:07:09] <dr65758> OK, I asked my non debian tech question in #debian-offtopic
• 1563[21:07:23] <Hash> You could try ##linux
• 1564[21:07:31] <Hash> And there is also ##kernel too which could be helpful
• 1565[21:07:43] <Hash> Debian offtopic may not be the best place to ask tech stuff non debian related.
• 1566[21:07:54] <Hash> There is also ##security
• 1567[21:08:21] <dr65758> Yeah, yeah. I am done with the SMACK thing. I'll build the kernel myself
• 1568[21:08:29] <dr65758> Now I just wanted the answer from jelly in offtopic
• 1569[21:08:35] <Hash> Kernel buildling questions of debian are welcome here anytime
• 1570[21:08:43] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jelly
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• 1576[21:10:29] <jhutchins> .
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• 1606[21:49:01] <_Vi> `gcc -mx32` fails to find `#include <errno.h>` for me on Debian 11. Shall I report a bug or something?
• 1607[21:51:00] <nkuttler> sounds like you're missing some library.. libv6-dev?
• 1608[21:51:22] <nkuttler> libc6-dev
• 1609[21:51:30] <nkuttler> which is in the gcc recommends btw
• 1610[21:51:55] <somiaj> doens't -mx32 mean you are trying to compile 32bit? So is this a cross compile?
• 1611[21:51:59] <greycat> I have no idea how to set up cross-compilers in Debian, so my guess is you didn't set up your cross-compiling environment correctly.
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• 1616[21:54:13] <somiaj> ,i libc6-dev-i386-cross
• 1617[21:54:15] <judd> An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
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• 1619[21:55:02] <somiaj> hmm, well anyways, that package might have the headers to setup corss compiling. In my limited experience, I just use a chroot
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• 1621[21:55:31] <jelly> x32 is not the same as i386, somiaj
• 1622[21:55:48] <jelly> !x32
• 1623[21:55:48] <dpkg> amd64 gives great improvement including an ability to directly address more than 4GB of ram, however for some algorithms the larger 64-bit pointers cause a significant slow-down due to poorer utilization of CPU cache. x32 allows 32-bit code on amd64 machines (only) that can use all the new features of amd64 including new registers. It was merged in Linux 3.4. replaced-url
• 1624[21:56:43] <greycat> so then ... one of libc6-dev-x32-amd64-cross or libc6-dev-x32-i386-cross it seems
• 1625[21:56:46] <somiaj> jelly: ahh thanks.
• 1626[22:00:40] <_Vi> -mx32 and -m32 are not the same.
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• 1628[22:00:54] <_Vi> `#include <errno.h>` works with `-m32`, but not with `-mx32`.
• 1629[22:01:07] <_Vi> This actually breaks the usual build of `strace` from source code.
• 1630[22:01:23] <_Vi> replaced-url
• 1631[22:01:56] <greycat> when you say "the usual build" do you mean upstream's instructions, or how the Debian package is built?
• 1632[22:02:27] <greycat> passing -m flags to gcc does not seem "usual" to me
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• 1635[22:05:09] <jelly> _Vi, are you intentionally trying to build for X32?
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• 1637[22:05:22] <_Vi> I mean upstream instructions.
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• 1639[22:05:42] <_Vi> ./bootstrap && ./configure && make
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• 1655[22:26:22] <Kraus> Good people! I have a query! I need to find out dependencies for packages for debian, and, to file a bug report for missing dependencies.
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• 1665[22:34:53] <sney> Kraus: are you looking at a specific package, or do you mean in general?
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• 1674[22:40:56] <jelly> Kraus, there are two types of dependencies in debian: build-time dependencies for source packages, and runtime dependencies of binary, compiled packages
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• 1691[23:00:50] <syrius> would 'apt update' fail completely if only one of the repos had a pubkey issue?
• 1692[23:01:23] <sney> iirc it should only ignore that one repo
• 1693[23:01:28] <syrius> hmm
• 1694[23:01:31] <sney> but it'll complain pretty loudly in the output
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• 1698[23:03:59] <Kraus> sney Sorry, got held up by a phone call, and I need to rush out momentarily. I found the packages area, so I think I got it covered actually.
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• 1746[23:49:40] *** Joins: mtn (~mtn@replaced-ip)
• 1747[23:50:55] *** Quits: craigevil (craig@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
• 1748[23:51:17] *** Joins: akaWolf (~akaWolf@replaced-ip)
• 1749[23:52:10] *** Joins: craigevil (craig@replaced-ip)
• 1750[23:52:42] *** Joins: centrx (~centrx@replaced-ip)
• 1751[23:55:17] *** Quits: _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 1752[23:56:32] *** Joins: shadowscript (~b4stsh3ll@replaced-ip)
• 1753[23:57:58] *** Quits: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 1754[23:57:59] *** Quits: centrx (~centrx@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 1755[23:59:03] *** Quits: Slumlord (~Slumlord@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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