Realtime Nick Name Ticker of #debian at freenode (ICQ IRC service)

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3[00:05:19] <jelly> !qotd0
4[00:05:20] <dpkg> <ttuttle> I mean, Gentoo's cool, but I need to get on with my life for a little while (college).
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27[00:23:28] <rander2> hello
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36[00:36:01] <Terrell> testing
37[00:37:14] <buttros_> Hello everyone! I have a problem, when I try to change the default browser using command line, it always opens firefox esr when I click a link
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41[00:38:53] <Terrell> looks like I can send to channel now that I have registered my Nick. I have not been here for a few years. I am looking to install Debian in a winders (uggh) box and want to be able to both boot into winders and run it in a VM. Why I want to be able to boot at this point is beyond me... and in fact maybe I don't want to do this. But I do want to be able to run Winders in a VM (Probably VMWare and possible VirtualBox) I need some config tips. Last time
42[00:38:53] <Terrell> I did this was 1998 and I might be a bit rustry
43[00:39:48] <Terrell> versions - windows 7 pro. Possibly windows 7 home and windows 10.
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48[00:41:46] <Terrell> I also want bootable USB (or other media) because I want to be able to run in gypsy mode (removable media w/o using a screw driver) and I expect to do this very seldomly. I just need to be able to run some decent image editing software and last I looked at GIMP it was not strong enough
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62[00:47:38] <rant> modern versions of windows make that nearly impossible, if not impractical as they dont allow switching hardware randomly and drastically
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66[00:48:23] <Terrell> I wont need to switchnhardware very often unless a cpu or MB breaks
67[00:48:31] <rant> yes you will
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69[00:48:41] <Terrell> why?
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71[00:48:47] <rant> every time you boot on the native hw or the VM it'll be a totally different computer
72[00:48:55] <rant> and WGA will try lock you out
73[00:49:16] <rant> unless you wanna run their util and wipe your profile and go through windows setup every time like you changed machines
74[00:49:40] <rant> the EULA is only good for one machine
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76[00:50:16] <rant> as far as windows would be concerned you'd be booting it routinely on two different machines when you only have a lisc to run it on one
77[00:50:36] <rant> you'd need to have two seperate windows installs if you want to dual boot and run it in a vm
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80[00:51:01] <Thedarkb-M90> GIMP is probably good enough if you have enough experience with it
81[00:51:06] <rant> or you can just do what I do, not use windows.. install debian, run games or w/e in crossover
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83[00:51:37] <rant> GIMP is pretty good.. but its not Photoshop.. even though it can run photoshop plugins..
84[00:51:40] <Terrell> I don't run games and I have 5 machines.
85[00:52:06] <rant> Photoshop can do crap like change filter settings on a filter you applied 10 steps back without undoing everything you've done since
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87[00:52:32] <Terrell> If I have windows installed in a partition then I should be able to mount and run it ina VM right?
88[00:52:38] <rant> absolutely not
89[00:52:43] <Terrell> what???
90[00:52:48] <rant> technically, yes..
91[00:52:53] <rant> but microsoft doesnt allow it
92[00:53:04] <rant> and it wont work right because the VM has completely different hardware
93[00:53:04] <Thedarkb-M90> I don't think Terrell cares about the EULA
94[00:53:20] <rant> its not a matter of the EULA, its about WGA and the way windows is designed
95[00:53:30] <rant> as soon as it sees its on different hw you get the BSOD
96[00:53:35] <rant> or at least a WGA lockout
97[00:53:41] <Thedarkb-M90> You can run it in a VM though
98[00:53:45] <Thedarkb-M90> That's not against the TOS
99[00:53:55] <rant> yeah, if you're not also running that very same install on the actual HW
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101[00:54:16] <rant> you can't run a single windows install on two different machines
102[00:54:29] <rant> unless they're identical
103[00:54:44] <rant> and even then, really modern UEFI systems could tell the difference
104[00:54:56] <Thedarkb-M90> You can set up two identical QEMU instances, you know.
105[00:55:02] <Terrell> Thedarkb-M90, you got that right! I got sstuck with 3 licensed verions of 4.0 And I intend to use one of them in a VM. But I need to be able to use image files coming from my daughter. She does not multiboot.
106[00:55:02] <rant> but you may fool XP, Vista, 7 or such
107[00:55:50] <Thedarkb-M90> I have no ethical qualms about cracking Windows since an XP install deactivated itself for no reason and wouldn't let me log in to fix it.
108[00:56:12] <rant> unless I am understanding this wrong, then you are misunderstanding that the question is can you dual boot AND run the VERY SAME dual-boot instal in a VM
109[00:56:26] <Thedarkb-M90> Yes, comfortably.
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112[00:56:45] <Thedarkb-M90> and I don't think that's what he wants.
113[00:56:57] <Terrell> Ya. I had that happen with NT 4.0. My son downloaded his assignment from UNI. It took me a week file by file to get the machine back up and running. M$ owes me big time.
114[00:57:21] <Terrell> Does not have to be the same install.
115[00:57:41] <Thedarkb-M90> Just run Debian and install Windows in a VM
116[00:57:48] <Thedarkb-M90> It won't crap out, honest.
117[00:57:55] <rant> or just run debian, and not windows
118[00:57:59] <Terrell> I already have 7 pro 7 home and 64 bit 10 instralled in 4 machines.
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120[00:58:22] <rant> installing your graphics software in some form of wine would be way more portable and use way less resources
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123[00:58:49] <Terrell> I expect to just be running Debian. I did for years. Last multiboot was 1998 and I never bootted windows once.
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125[00:59:58] <rant> Adobe Photoshop 7 and Photoshop CS4 for example have a 5/5 star rating of supported by crossover
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127[01:00:15] <Terrell> I wasn't too conserned about resources. THe 64 bit machines are loaded and I plan on using 32 bit windows to run the image editing software.
128[01:00:16] <rant> requires no VM overhead, the bottles can be exported easily
129[01:01:05] <Terrell> Oh boy! It is Photoshop I need to use. Possibly illustrator as well and I was going to try PaintShopPro
130[01:01:34] <Terrell> I looked at Crossover years ago.
131[01:01:49] <rant> well plain ol wine could run it too
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133[01:02:02] <Terrell> I just want to figure out how to get Debian in and preserve the functionality I already paid for.
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136[01:02:20] <Terrell> wine was not up to speed in 1998
137[01:02:47] <Terrell> I sort of stopped all windows apps about then
138[01:02:48] <rant> replaced-url
139[01:02:58] <rant> replaced-url
140[01:03:01] <Terrell> I'll get to WINE later.
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145[01:04:40] <Terrell> right now I have 2 windows 7 machines (32 bit) and 2 windows 10 machines (64 bit). I was thinking shrink the partitions and install DEBIAN in partition #s 2 3 4 etc. These are NTFS formats so far (AFAIK)
146[01:05:09] <Terrell> If I just get Debian installed on a bottable USB it will be a good start.
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151[01:06:25] <Terrell> I think USB are formatted with either FAT32 or FATEX. how well does Linux like this format?
152[01:06:54] <rant> it doesnt matter, the installer will repartition and reformat
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154[01:07:30] <rant> for things to work properly, at least certain directories must have posix style permissions
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156[01:08:06] <rant> ext4 is the default these days in Debian
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162[01:10:46] <Terrell> Okay. That works. I have 4, 16, 32, and 64 GB USB flash availlable. Which size would you suggest for a GYPSY debian boot
163[01:10:47] <LionHeart-Z> Hi everyone
164[01:11:18] <Terrell> ya. I noted that. I have not experiance with EXT4. Last was EXT3 and it did everything I needed.
165[01:11:30] <Terrell> Hi LionHeart-Z
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170[01:12:59] <LionHeart-Z> Hi Turrel I am typing from Firefox in Android . so excuse my spelling and autocorrects
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173[01:13:38] <LionHeart-Z> Currently I am in need of support
174[01:14:10] <mutante> !ask
175[01:14:10] <dpkg> If you have a question, just ask! For example: "I have a problem with ___; I'm running Debian version ___. When I try to do ___ I get the following output ___. I expected it to do ___." Don't ask if you can ask, if anyone uses it, or pick one person to ask. We're all volunteers; make it easy for us to help you. If you don't get an answer try a few hours later or on debian-user@lists.debian.org. See <smart questions><errors>.
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177[01:14:34] <LionHeart-Z> After I forced shutdown my hanged laptop that was doing apt dist-upgrade
178[01:14:55] <LionHeart-Z> The OS could.no.longer.boot with error "no init found"
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180[01:15:44] <Terrell> LionHeart-Z, I did not know you could access IRC from firfox in android! I just installed hexChat in a winders box
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182[01:16:30] <Terrell> Okay. Yoy need to sync your intird file. It contains device drivers not found in the boot image. look up mkinitrd
183[01:16:35] <LionHeart-Z> You can, but it is ackward to type and the fonts are small
184[01:16:42] <mutante> LionHeart-Z: maybe it could help to boot from a CD and run fsck on the hard disk
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186[01:17:10] <LionHeart-Z> Hi mutante. I have Debian with Btrfs
187[01:17:42] <Terrell> mutante, most likely mismatchined initrd file. It contains a mountable memory emulated floppy. They NEVER DID FIX the docs. I ran into this in 1996
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190[01:18:10] <mutante> oops, ok. i had no idea :)
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193[01:18:27] <Terrell> rant, what size USB flash drive would you suggest.
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196[01:18:48] <mutante> i just saw other users had the "no init found" fixed by running fsck from live cd.. admittedly that was on ubuntuforums
197[01:18:48] <LionHeart-Z> I didn't say ot.yet. not your fault mutante
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199[01:18:52] <tomman> hi there
200[01:18:57] <tomman> I have a headless box doing duty as a router with Jessie, and noticed lwresd is installed and running
201[01:19:05] <tomman> I do run bind9 as a caching DNS server
202[01:19:12] <tomman> do I really need lwresd up and running?
203[01:19:23] <Terrell> mutante, neither did the consulant both the uni and I hired. We figured it out separetly within hours of each other after facing computers in panic mode for a week
204[01:19:29] <tomman> I'm trying to slim down RAM usage and disable unneded stuff
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208[01:20:35] <Terrell> tomman, I don't know. I run OpenBSD on my firewalls... now on a PCEngines Alix board. 3 nics
209[01:20:38] <LionHeart-Z> I posted a.thread in Ubuntuforums but I have yet to receive a reply
210[01:20:42] <LionHeart-Z> replaced-url
211[01:21:02] <at0m> tomman: "caching-only name server" you can live without that, if it's in your DNS requests chain you'll need to reroute requests though
212[01:21:10] <tomman> Terrell: I can't even find proper documentation about what exactly lwresd does
213[01:21:26] <Terrell> this should be added to the error message in the kernel. Lord hopw many extra chars to do it?
214[01:21:27] <at0m> tomman: i got that from apt show lwresd
215[01:21:28] <tomman> IIRC I didn't even had installed it on Wheezy, prior to my Jessie upgrade
216[01:21:45] <tomman> at0m: so it should be safe to disable/uninstall?
217[01:22:09] <Terrell> tomman, I don't have a linux machine running at the moment. Stuck with the windows boat anchore until I get Debian 9 up.
218[01:22:12] <at0m> i wouldnt uninstall it immediately, but stop it and see what starts to fail, if anything
219[01:22:25] <tomman> will try that then
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223[01:22:32] <tomman> my setup is as barebones as it could be
224[01:22:47] <Terrell> at0m. What a bold idea!
225[01:22:49] <tomman> bind9, Samba, dhcp server and client
226[01:23:00] <tomman> oh, and CUPS for printing
227[01:24:12] <at0m> tomman: if you're looking to free RAM, i don't think you'll save much disabling a cachine dns server
228[01:24:23] <at0m> *caching
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230[01:24:49] <tomman> at0m: Well, I know BIND loves using RAM, particularly when I use custom RPZ zones for adblocking purposes
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232[01:25:17] <tomman> so maybe saving RAM isn't the goal here, but disabling unused stuff (and reducing possible attack surface) is
233[01:25:48] <tomman> but then this is an OLD Pentium thing with 128MB RAM, so every megabyte saved is great
234[01:25:53] <at0m> it caches for bind, so you don't have to look up on the internet time on time again
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236[01:25:56] <at0m> ok
237[01:26:02] <tomman> hmmm....
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239[01:26:31] <at0m> tomman: then i suggest you stop it for now, or a couple weeks, and see how the LAN behaves
240[01:26:47] <tomman> Will try playing with that then.
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242[01:27:17] <at0m> old pentium? saving on electricity bill can buy you a raspberry pi quick
243[01:27:24] <Terrell> tomman, Looking into an Alix board. The electricity savings will pay for it in a year.
244[01:27:32] <at0m> ^
245[01:27:44] <tomman> Terrell: In my country, the cost of electricity is not a concern
246[01:27:55] <tomman> this thing has been serving well me for nearly a decade
247[01:28:18] <tomman> but then, I'll have to consider another OS as Stretch no longer supports i586 targets
248[01:28:40] <Terrell> I have a 32MB P1 ran the firwall just fine. For 20 years.
249[01:29:06] <tomman> this thing is...
250[01:29:12] <tomman> let's check /proc/cpuinfo
251[01:29:37] <Terrell> Hmm Will the latest Debian support an Atom? 1.6 GHz
252[01:29:49] <tomman> Pentium MMX @ 224.986
253[01:29:52] <tomman> MHz
254[01:30:02] <Terrell> tomman. How do you get juice so cheap?
255[01:30:06] <tomman> made sometime around 1997, I actually assembled
256[01:30:20] <tomman> in 2007 or so, started doing router duties in 2009
257[01:30:28] <at0m> Terrell: sure it will run on an atom
258[01:30:31] <tomman> Terrell: a wonderful place known as Soviet Venezuela
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260[01:30:39] <tomman> I said "cheap", not "good" power
261[01:30:48] *** Joins: awal1 (~awal1@replaced-ip)
262[01:31:02] <Terrell> ya that is an old machine. I had a 400mHz Celron and upgraded the CPU to a PIII tualatin core. Worked fine for 20 years
263[01:31:16] <at0m> does TV watch you in Venezuela? cos it does in the Great West
264[01:31:26] <tomman> at0m: I no longer have a working TV :/
265[01:31:34] *** Quits: mzf (~fakhraee@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
266[01:31:53] <Terrell> Nothing on TV worth watching here in CANADA.
267[01:32:02] <tomman> Internet access is cheap but you get what you pay for
268[01:32:05] <at0m> tomman :/
269[01:32:14] <tomman> then the joys of hyperinflation, etc.
270[01:32:27] <tomman> so your $20 Pi is completely unaffordable
271[01:32:27] <Terrell> I pay too much. BUt I have fibre available now.
272[01:32:43] *** Joins: colinjmatt (~colinjmat@replaced-ip)
273[01:32:53] <tomman> hence why I have to take great care of my hardware, so this Pentium MMX rig will keep doing routing duties for the foreseable future
274[01:32:57] *** Quits: cybercrypto (~cybercryp@replaced-ip) (Quit: cybercrypto)
275[01:33:02] <tomman> started as a geek experiment in the college dorms
276[01:33:03] <at0m> tomman: i understand
277[01:33:07] *** Quits: woshty (~woshty@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
278[01:33:13] <Terrell> tomman, You guys have lots of oil. Problem is synthetics can be made for US$2.90 a US gallon
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281[01:33:23] <LionHeart-Z> I wonder if someone can help me.with this.
282[01:33:29] <LionHeart-Z> replaced-url
283[01:33:30] <tomman> became a fulltime router (I do have a separate WiFi AP running DD-WRT, but I don't personally use WiFi devices)
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285[01:34:33] <tomman> Hmm, I stopped lwresd
286[01:34:43] <tomman> no adverse effects noticed right now
287[01:34:46] <at0m> tomman: now nslookup/dig some domains
288[01:34:48] <tomman> will keep testing then
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290[01:35:31] <Terrell> If I could ship you equipment? I have a box of high end motherboards which will support probably younger than pentium 4. Pretty sure but I don't know which CPU's. I have several newer 32 bit boxen as well.
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292[01:35:39] <at0m> tomman: at best, possibly some response times go up. at worst, it sits in your bind chain and dns may fail
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295[01:36:08] <aypea[3]> is there a way to reinstall a package such that the old package is (effectively) completely removed and the new is installed afresh? I think the package install is borked for this package but other packages, that I don't want to uninstall, depend on it.
296[01:36:47] <Terrell> aypea[3], ya. I would not trust it.
297[01:36:49] <at0m> aypea[3]: can you reinstall the others, as well?
298[01:37:00] <at0m> Terrell: do you actually use debian?
299[01:37:01] <aypea[3]> i'd rather not risk their configs
300[01:37:19] <Terrell> at0m, I have to get it installed. I used it for years.
301[01:37:22] <tomman> at0m: on the clients I actually notice no difference, queries do take a couple seconds max
302[01:37:36] <tomman> on the server (router) they're nearly instantaneous, tho.
303[01:37:48] <tomman> (testing from a good ol' Win7 laptop)
304[01:37:59] <Terrell> My "super" old version died a while back. I need to start over with a new install
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306[01:38:15] <at0m> tomman: cool. keep it at that for some time, and purge it if all continues to work next weeks =)
307[01:38:18] <tomman> on another Debian Stretch client, I notice no slowdowns
308[01:38:32] <Terrell> at0m, why do you ask?
309[01:38:40] <tomman> yeah, I'll keep it disabled for a few days
310[01:39:02] <at0m> Terrell: cos i saw above that you're installing it, so wasnt sure if you had any experience on it
311[01:39:30] <at0m> tomman: mostly to be sure other caches have refreshed by reboots of the clients etc
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313[01:40:17] <at0m> tomman: "Installed-Size: 856 kB" so that wont hurt much for now
314[01:40:31] <Terrell> oh! Good point. My old versions are so old they won't handle the USB drivers and I had to get windows boxen. But they were $50 bux so no big deal. Next I have 64 bit machines to get running and I want to preserve the winders versions I paid for in case I need them.
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316[01:40:45] <tomman> I don't really mind size or RAM usage, all I wanted to know if I really need it and what it does
317[01:41:25] <tomman> it's like ths instance of colord, which I KNOW is used by CUPS
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321[01:41:40] <tomman> (and it uses only a few hundred KB RAM, so meh)
322[01:42:01] <at0m> tomman: apt show lwresd and man lwresd will explain more on what it does
323[01:42:02] <Terrell> at0m, Last time I was doing a fresh install I set up multiboot. OS/2 NT 3.51 NT4.0 and Debian. I never ended up booting other than into Linux. System run for years!
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326[01:43:27] <Terrell> at0m My bigger issue is supporting old periupherals. I have quite a lot of SCSI stuff still runnning
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328[01:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1324
329[01:44:07] <Terrell> at0m Believe it or not I have DOS software that is actually quite valuable.
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331[01:44:13] <at0m> Terrell: unlike commercial software, debian does great on old hw
332[01:44:53] <tomman> heh, except that i486/i586 is no longer supported
333[01:45:02] <tomman> not that you would run a full desktop enviroment on those
334[01:45:13] <Terrell> ya. But that is not why I need it. I am going into Robotics (CNC equipemnt with a Smoothie Board) and I need a proper developm,ent platform. None of this windows junk.
335[01:45:16] <tharkun> There is a way to change the default editor for the system. The config relies on symlinks yet I am unable to remember the name to change it. Can someome slap me on the right direction pleases?
336[01:45:29] <tomman> (in fact, i've found MATE to be borderline unusable on P4s unless you really stuff them with some RAM)
337[01:45:30] <patterson_> I had a friend who could always out do me when it came to old hoopty hardware
338[01:45:46] <tomman> I do have a 386SX-40 with 6MB RAM
339[01:45:52] <tomman> always wanted to run Linux on that thing
340[01:45:53] <Terrell> tomman, one should be able to recompile to the older instruction set
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344[01:46:22] <tomman> never found a distro that could actually work there, and nobody bothers anymore, even if only for geekcred/lulz
345[01:46:25] <tharkun> tomman: Let that have an honorfull death. Set some gasoline on it and light it with a match ;P
346[01:46:33] <tomman> tharkun: nevar!
347[01:46:42] <tomman> I recently had to use it to reflash a CDRW firmware!
348[01:47:00] <Terrell> I think my friend Carmine still has his Commodor 64
349[01:47:18] <tomman> (drive is PATA, upgrader won't work over USB, and that's my only thing with available PATA ports)
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352[01:47:37] <patterson_> Hopefully the C64 is a production machine
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354[01:48:02] <Terrell> tharkun, ya. But you think 20 YO hardware is ready for use as a boat anchore and if it were a lady I would call it a spring chicken!
355[01:48:06] <tomreyn> LionHeart-Z: looking at what you posted to replaced-url
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357[01:48:37] <Terrell> patterson_, LOL. Ya. - well he runs 3000 core servers as well - on windows no less! Ugghh
358[01:48:44] <tomman> well, I lied: I still have a working TV
359[01:48:46] *** Joins: mzf (~fakhraee@replaced-ip)
360[01:48:48] <tomman> but it isn't technically a TV
361[01:48:55] *** Joins: slack_ (~slack@replaced-ip)
362[01:48:58] <tomman> but a old IBM Thinkcentre box from 2003 with a half-busted TV tuner
363[01:49:02] <tomman> naturally it runs Debian
364[01:49:06] <at0m> :)
365[01:49:22] <at0m> pvr-150 or -250? =)
366[01:49:24] <Terrell> LOL good one.
367[01:49:28] <tomman> (the "TV tuner" part doesn't work anymore, but I have a sat box plugged to the Composite inputs)
368[01:49:47] <tomman> nope, it's some noname Encore card (SAA713x chipset)
369[01:50:04] <tomman> amazingly the card worked just fine, even the TV tuner bits
370[01:50:09] <Terrell> tomman, you guys need to get your economy working again
371[01:50:14] *** patterson_ is now known as patterson
372[01:50:18] <at0m> got some of that, too, for DVB-S
373[01:50:28] <tomman> it happens that a power surge over the CATV line fried the tuner (my cable provider REFUSES to recognize it has a problem)
374[01:50:49] <at0m> Terrell: ranting on their politics isnt helping tomman
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377[01:51:19] <tomman> if anyone cares, the card is a Encore ENLTV v5.3
378[01:51:27] <Terrell> My problem for right now is choosing a USB flash drive to install to. I have 4 8 26 32 and 64 GB here. Might want both 32 bit and 64 bit Debian and dual boot off the USB. Suggestions?
379[01:51:37] <tomman> (the v5.3 part is important if you're actually looking for "just works" Linux compatibility)
380[01:52:07] <agio> how do I show the questions posed by `dpkg-reconfigure <package>' ? this doesn't work:
381[01:52:09] <agio> sudo debconf -show sysstat
382[01:52:15] <at0m> Terrell: raspberry pi comes with 4GB and raspbian, i use 32GB cards
383[01:52:16] <tomman> also I learned to avoid anything that says "silicon tuner" - those are awfully slow to switch channels
384[01:52:50] <tomman> trained the remote controllers from my busted TVs to work with LIRC, and it works fine with tvtime
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386[01:53:04] <tomman> technically I have a "smart TV"
387[01:53:15] <at0m> tomman: o/
388[01:53:24] <t3xx3r> Is it possible to partition a 32GB usb flashdrive with different flavors of Linux without destroying any of the installation files?
389[01:53:25] <tomman> ...except that mine DOES not spy on me, does NOT play Netflix, and runs Debian
390[01:53:58] <at0m> tomman: i made my smart TV dumb cos its a liability, and use tuner cards for exactly that reason
391[01:54:00] <awal1> how can i make my commands, anyone, output stuff with less?
392[01:54:03] *** Quits: mzf (~fakhraee@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
393[01:54:16] <tomman> I did had to build my own tvtime .debs from scratch, tho
394[01:54:46] <Terrell> t3xx3r, I am facing the same issues. I am looking to iunstall to USB
395[01:54:54] *** Quits: format_c (~koeppea@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
396[01:55:05] <t3xx3r> @Terrell yeah, I was just wondering.
397[01:55:07] *** Joins: mzf (~fakhraee@replaced-ip)
398[01:55:20] <t3xx3r> @Terrell, I have a 32 GB usb flashdrive coming in through the mail.
399[01:55:34] <at0m> noobs does multiple distro's on rpi's SD
400[01:56:05] <at0m> replaced-url
401[01:56:16] <Terrell> t3xx3r, I have done multiboot before and might actually know because I did know the boot process... but that was 1998. Old style is still supported but there is a newer way that I just skimmed through. We need to write a howto
402[01:56:50] <t3xx3r> @Terrell Yeah. 1998 may not seem very up to date today. What distro are you looking to install?
403[01:56:52] <at0m> awal1: how do you mean, "output stuff with less"?
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405[01:57:24] <Terrell> t3xx3r, if you have different partitions then yes. Not too difficult.
406[01:57:28] <t3xx3r> @at0m thanks! I'll keep that one in mind.
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408[01:57:43] <awal1> at0m any command I execute I want the output shown via 'less'
409[01:58:04] <t3xx3r> @Terrell how do you partition space for the USB drive?
410[01:58:31] *** Joins: sleepingforest (~sleepingf@replaced-ip)
411[01:58:39] <awal1> or always append | less at the end of the commands
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414[01:58:56] <at0m> awal1: then pipe to less? long as the command is not interactive, that is. command | less
415[01:58:58] <Terrell> t3xx3r, otherwise you need a COMMON file system over all verusions. The boot image address needs to be put into the boot manager.
416[01:59:28] <awal1> at0m, i know that, but tired appending it manually :P
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418[01:59:41] <t3xx3r> I plan on making my 32 USB drive completely Linux, not Windows.
419[01:59:50] <t3xx3r> So it'll have different distros. Not all of them but just some of them
420[01:59:58] <t3xx3r> Like, maybe 3
421[02:00:00] <Terrell> t3xx3r, I have to run. Friend is here and we are going bee keeping. I did not know for sure he was coming over. ready linux multiboot how to. Its old but it explains the process in full... very good. google should find it for you.
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423[02:00:15] <t3xx3r> Thanks Terrell
424[02:00:17] <t3xx3r> Have fun
425[02:00:33] <Terrell> you can lift boot sectors with dd this is how you lift windows boot proceedure.
426[02:01:06] *** Quits: de-facto (~de-facto@replaced-ip) (Quit: See you around.)
427[02:01:11] <Terrell> ya were is my bee suit. mice ate one of my bee gloves
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430[02:03:33] <at0m> awal1: if you run your commands in screen/tmux, you can always ^a,Esc and scroll back up in case you need it. or why do you need such "feature"? what are you trying to accomplish?
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434[02:04:46] <awal1> at0m, just a curiosity trying to learn more about bash
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436[02:06:39] <Terrell> t3xx3r, ou can email albertagoldenhoney@nucleus.com Ill be back in a few hours. you can email me at jhllarson@gmail.com... cell
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505[03:17:38] <agio> I've performed a non-interactive debconf selection using ansible's debconf module. it went successfully and the debconf database got updated - but thats all that happened. none of the package configuration occurred. how can I programmatically trigger that?
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601[04:55:43] <agio> is noninteractive configuration of packages via debconf a functional part of debian? I get the feeling its pretty much abandoned and no longer maintained or expected to work ?
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605[04:56:53] <agio> and debian users are generally expected to use other means/techniques to script out configuration of packages - would this be a roughly correct assessment?
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619[05:13:10] <thither> Hey, my debian install (jessie) doesn't have the gnome settings application anymore. Why I search for it it's not there. When I click the settings icon in the top bar nothing happens.
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644[05:26:48] <rant> ,v gnome-control-center
645[05:26:49] <judd> Package: gnome-control-center on amd64 -- wheezy: 1:3.4.3.1-2; jessie: 1:3.14.2-3; stretch: 1:3.22.2-3; buster: 1:3.28.2-1; sid: 1:3.30.1-1
646[05:27:20] <rant> thither: try dpkg -l gnome-control-center
647[05:27:28] <thither> rant, :P okay I installed it and all is well
648[05:27:34] <thither> Not sure how I lost it in the first place
649[05:28:13] <thither> thanks!
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735[07:02:35] <darxmurf> morning
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822[08:22:51] <Haohmaru> Q: if i take out the harddisk and plug it into a completely different computer (different motherboard/cpu/etc) - does my debian9 have high-ish chances to "just work" ?
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824[08:25:03] <darxmurf> it's something I wondering too ^^
825[08:25:15] <n4dir> if at all: reinstall grub, edit /etc/fstab and remove /etc/udev/udev.d/*rules.net* (or similar). The former two i would assem: rather not
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827[08:25:40] <darxmurf> never tried, then go for it but I would clone the disk on another one instead of to try, kill the system and won't be able to use it anymore on both computers :D
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830[08:26:53] <Haohmaru> hm
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833[08:27:18] <Haohmaru> what do you think has high chances to break?
834[08:27:34] <n4dir> what i mentioned.
835[08:27:50] <n4dir> wouldn't call that "break" though.
836[08:27:59] <Haohmaru> i don't really understand that.. i know (sorta) what fstab is for
837[08:28:24] <n4dir> fstab tells what is to be mounted. As it now uses UUID (or such), i would assume it will still be valid
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839[08:28:45] <n4dir> i would also assume that grub is on the harddisk, but am never that sure about it.
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842[08:29:20] <n4dir> both can easily be fixed from a live CD (like said: in your case i assume it won't happen)
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844[08:29:26] <Haohmaru> i recently copied the partitions of a harddisk onto a bigger harddisk, and resized them, all in GParted, and then the debian on that thing ran like nothing happened
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847[08:31:18] <Haohmaru> n4dir yes, grub is on the harddisk (where else could it be?)
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849[08:31:48] <jelly> Haohmaru: it's likely to boot. If no new hardware requires extra non-free bits to work, things might work. Otherwise, you might have to reconfigure some things or add firmware where needed.
850[08:31:50] <n4dir> i only tried to be cautious. W
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853[08:32:43] <jelly> Haohmaru: I transplanted my Debian installation at home to about 5-6 new hardware platforms over the years
854[08:32:58] <Haohmaru> jelly well, the biggest difference i know between the two is the cpu.. the current one is some dual-core AMD, the new one is intel i-<some_number>
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856[08:33:16] <jelly> those are quite compatible
857[08:33:22] <Haohmaru> noice
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859[08:33:58] <Haohmaru> so gpu might be different and i might end up without drivers for it and no DE, but that's fixable in textmode, right?
860[08:34:42] <jelly> yes
861[08:34:55] <jelly> assuming network access works
862[08:35:04] <Haohmaru> oh, right :/
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864[08:35:47] <Haohmaru> maybe i should plug a debian live USB stick into the new PC to see what kind of stuff it has
865[08:36:02] <darxmurf> you will have some funky things anyway :-)
866[08:36:22] <jelly> NetworkManager has a nasty tendency to only initialize after successful (GUI) login
867[08:36:51] <Haohmaru> in the live debian, i'd go to the desktop of course
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869[08:37:04] <darxmurf> I would say "NetworkManager gas nasty tendencies *"
870[08:37:05] <darxmurf> :D
871[08:37:08] <darxmurf> has
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914[09:13:44] <azamet> how to be a new born internet user
915[09:14:16] <iron_houzi> After doing apt-get update && apt-get upgrade there's no update for libssh listed .. does anybody know why? T thought the 0-day would surely be available..
916[09:14:27] <iron_houzi> *0-day patch
917[09:14:27] <jelly> ,v libssh2
918[09:14:29] <judd> No package named 'libssh2' was found in amd64.
919[09:14:44] <jelly> wasn't there an update last week or so
920[09:14:50] <Unit193> ,v libssh2-1
921[09:14:51] <judd> Package: libssh2-1 on amd64 -- wheezy: 1.4.2-1.1+deb7u2; wheezy-security: 1.4.2-1.1+deb7u2; jessie: 1.4.3-4.1+deb8u1; jessie-security: 1.4.3-4.1+deb8u1; stretch: 1.7.0-1; buster: 1.8.0-2; sid: 1.8.0-2
922[09:15:18] <jelly> iron_houzi: does this issue have a CVE number?
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924[09:15:29] <iron_houzi> replaced-url
925[09:16:34] <jelly> iron_houzi: so you have libssh installed at all?
926[09:16:37] <jelly> ,v libssh
927[09:16:39] <judd> No package named 'libssh' was found in amd64.
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929[09:16:59] <azamet> today someone said me even if i format my laptop google will know who i am and how to start completely as a new user in internet?
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931[09:17:40] <jelly> iron_houzi: apparently libssh and libssh2 are two completely different pieces of software. The main binary package for the one you're asking about is libssh-4
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933[09:18:21] <azamet> no one knows it?
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936[09:19:27] <iron_houzi> OK .. so it's just an obscure bug?? Ars Technica made it sound like the end of time..
937[09:19:36] <iron_houzi> Thanks!
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940[09:20:00] <n4dir> "every jackass on the road has got ideas" J. Joyce. azamet ( to put it different: those are difficult questions)
941[09:20:03] <jelly> iron_houzi: it's relevant if you have an ssh _server_ based on that particular libssh source.
942[09:20:44] <iron_houzi> jelly: Yup .. I thought all ssh servers were using libssh
943[09:20:58] <azamet> even after formatting laptop changing mac address and hostname how to google knows that it is still me n4dir?
944[09:21:04] <iron_houzi> ..and that all versions of libssh above 0.6 were affected
945[09:21:16] <jelly> iron_houzi: no. openssh and dropbear each have their own implemention
946[09:21:28] <iron_houzi> ohh
947[09:22:11] <iron_houzi> jelly: Thanks for the clarification
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950[09:25:04] <n4dir> azamet: the best i can offer are speeches of Eben Moglen (on youtube, oh the irony). Doesn't answer your question, i guess, but at least are entertaining
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956[09:27:35] <Haohmaru> azamet it's not impossible, you know
957[09:27:38] <jelly> azamet: this isn't exactly a Debian-specific question, perhaps ask in ##security or find a privacy-oriented place
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959[09:28:12] <azamet> i did already but no one could give me answer
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961[09:29:55] <jelly> well, perhaps there's no simple answer or the question is flawed
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971[09:35:16] <azamet> so using victims insternet will also hide me from google? or still same?
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975[09:39:22] <Haohmaru> google collects enough information so they can probably combine the different bits together to recognize you even if you throw away your laptop
976[09:40:29] <rant> laptop? pfft.. they can read your mind.. they know what your next query is going to be already.. even if you don't
977[09:41:22] <azamet> what if i never visit google gmail or somethings like that?
978[09:41:40] <azamet> will the google analytics this time detect me?
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980[09:42:11] <rant> you do realize those things are not just on google sites.. they're on virtually every site
981[09:42:31] <rant> not to mention everyone is a spy now.. and all information is for sale
982[09:42:45] <rant> and guess who has a lot of money..
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1020[10:05:11] <azamet> i have NVMe and can i encrypt it or is it harmful to do it?
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1026[10:09:00] <rudi_s> azamet: Encrypting the hard disk is not harmful, especially if you configure LUKS to allow trim. However full disk encryption doesn't protect against a lot of threats.
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1030[10:09:21] <rudi_s> It only protects against your drive being stolen while your device is powered-down.
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1033[10:10:22] <Psy-Q> whee, the "snmp user gets removed forcibly on upgrade of package snmpd" bug i reported is getting fixed \o/
1034[10:10:37] <Psy-Q> so i am a halfway useful human being (sometimes)!
1035[10:10:38] <rudi_s> azamet: Regarding tracking in the web, nothing helps against that. A website itself will very likely be able to identify you (based on your fonts, browser extensions, screen size, keyboard and mouse usage habits, etc.)
1036[10:11:04] <rudi_s> Tools like ublock origin and umatrix help against third parties tracking you, but not against the websites itself.
1037[10:11:30] <rudi_s> So while google.com still knows what you like to search for (and therefore much about you), at least it won't know (easily) which other websites you like to visit.
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1039[10:11:47] <rudi_s> (This won't help obviously if you always type the websites you visit in google.
1040[10:11:48] <rudi_s> )
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1042[10:13:00] <azamet> im not planning to visit any site actually from laptop
1043[10:13:06] <azamet> but i want to use deepweb
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1046[10:14:14] <Psy-Q> if you use the Tor browser and keep its window size at the default, it will block e.g. canvas-based tracking bugs and all that, and you will just look like every other Tor user
1047[10:14:48] <Psy-Q> i think Tor even warns if you try to resize the window (i remember something from a while back, at least)
1048[10:15:11] <azamet> but the exit nodes shows still who i am right?
1049[10:16:55] <Psy-Q> well, you'll be "that one person coming out of exit node no. 78372994 just like those 50000 other people"
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1051[10:17:22] <Psy-Q> i think that is the extent to which Tor works, but it's probably describe in better detail on the project site
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1054[10:19:07] <azamet> also in america it is easier to find that person but not on other countries right? because of technology from america is so big is it true how i think?
1055[10:20:14] <azamet> NSA is recording the exit nodes and NSA is in america that for im asking this
1056[10:21:33] <azamet> because im not in america does it make sense?
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1059[10:22:08] <Psy-Q> well, it's probably safe to say that on US territory NSA and friends operate a lot of Tor nodes, but if you're running from the NSA you also have to consider the Five Eyes states
1060[10:22:25] <Psy-Q> surely there are nodes running on Five Eyes territory that all members share access to
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1063[10:23:07] <azamet> what is Five Eyes territory?
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1065[10:23:21] <azamet> is it something like NSA?
1066[10:23:25] <Haohmaru> google it.. oh wait ;P~
1067[10:23:49] <Psy-Q> well, wikipedia it :)
1068[10:23:57] <azamet> yes now i did find it
1069[10:24:02] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1323
1070[10:24:02] <azamet> 5 country i see here
1071[10:24:03] <Psy-Q> replaced-url
1072[10:24:10] <rant> !ot
1073[10:24:11] <dpkg> #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
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1075[10:24:22] <azamet> so these countrys also haves something like NSA right?
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1077[10:24:40] <Psy-Q> yes, let's move that, or actually, you probably get some more in-depth advice on a privacy-focused channel
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1080[10:24:53] <geekodour08> what is main non-free contrib in sources.list : replaced-url
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1084[10:26:14] <azamet> germany is not in that list :S
1085[10:26:31] <azamet> means it germany not haves something like NSA?
1086[10:27:00] <rant> geekodour08: they are the sections, main includes only DFSG compliant software, contrib is software that is DFSG but requires non-dfsg components for example perhaps a console emulator that is GPL but requires proprietary roms, and non-free is entirely non-DFSG software
1087[10:28:01] <rant> geekodour08: firmwares for many hardware are non-free for example, because they do not have a DFSG compliant lisc
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1091[10:29:06] <azamet> wtf the five eyes thing is recording the vpn's and also if we use tor with vpn it is much more easier to detect him also :/
1092[10:29:17] <rant> geekodour08: the DFSG (Debian Free Software Guidelines) is rather strict in its requirements but the Debian project is not so idealistic that it refuses to allow use of things that do not comply, so it instead seperates into 3 sections and allows its users to decide what they want to use..
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1095[10:30:16] <rant> because not allowing use of such things would violate Debian's Social Contract and DFSG itself.. by restricting how you could use it
1096[10:30:25] <azamet> replaced-url
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1100[10:31:01] <azamet> i think my brain starting to burn :D
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1102[10:31:43] <Haohmaru> <paranoia_intensifies.gif>
1103[10:31:58] <rant> azamet: there are over a thousand nicks here, people actively asking Debian questions and getting support, I'm going to ask you again to try #debian-offtopic or perhaps join the ##philosophy-uncensored channel I moderate if you wanna discuss the social/scientific/philosophical aspects of such things, the regulars there enjoy such things..
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1110[10:36:06] <airwind> hes been asking similar stuff in #kali-linux and ##security
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1141[10:51:06] <Psy-Q> oh, the myth that using a distro made for forensics and pentesting will improve your privacy?
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1149[10:56:34] <jelly> Psy-Q: isn't that kind of the opposite of privacy
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1153[11:00:05] <BCMM> but it's a "security" distro! and words never have multiple meanings!
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1158[11:02:38] <Psy-Q> :)
1159[11:02:53] <Psy-Q> i wonder why Qubes OS isn't better known in the paranoia circles
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1163[11:03:33] <Psy-Q> that and booting from that concept secure signed USB key that joanna rutkovska sketched, plus declawing your Intel ME would probably make people remove at least one third of the tinfoil on their heads
1164[11:03:34] <jelly> it is. This channel is not paranoia circles however.
1165[11:03:37] <Psy-Q> yeah, true
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1168[11:04:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1339
1169[11:04:52] <luxpir> hey all. samsung 970 evo nvme ssd on a pcie adapter board not showing as usable in deb. on a hp z600. not trying to make it bootable (people usually put boot partition on another drive afaik)
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1171[11:05:15] <luxpir> although there is an nvme device showing under /dev/nvme0 now
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1175[11:06:00] <luxpir> I installed nvme-cli also, but for some reason its commands are invalid/not firing, even if it's installed
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1177[11:06:47] <JustASlacker> is there a way to select which php gets called on the shell ?
1178[11:07:12] <luxpir> (also disabled 'compute' for the pcie slot in the bios, and just for this boot now switched a SATA option from IDE to RAID+AHCI... fwiw
1179[11:07:17] <luxpir> )
1180[11:07:23] <JustASlacker> guess thats part of alternatives
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1191[11:12:03] <luxpir> any nvme/z600 users here by any chance?
1192[11:13:00] <luxpir> oh dang, nvme-cli does work, I just have to sudo it.
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1194[11:13:26] <luxpir> device correctly displaying there then. will follow that path. thanks for letting me rubber duck, folks.
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1197[11:14:37] <tarzeau> how would i go to enable/start zram (compressed memory)? ubuntu users have zram-config, and debian has bugs.debian.org/648249
1198[11:14:38] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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1212[11:19:49] <spacedust> how do you recompile zfs module for new kernel ?
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1214[11:20:05] <spacedust> just apt remove and apt install ? :) seem not the best choice :)
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1236[11:32:31] <rant> spacedust: it should likely have happened automatically, via dkms
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1238[11:32:56] <rant> spacedust: is zfs-dkms installed
1239[11:33:13] <rant> spacedust: dpkg -l zfs-dkms
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1248[11:41:20] <spacedust> rant: if it doesnt happens automatically or it fails how can i manually reinstall it without remove + add again ?
1249[11:41:41] <rant> you can check if zfs-dkms is installed, and if not install it..
1250[11:42:12] <rant> because you dont know how to do it manually, its important, you obviously need it.. so you want it to happen automatically.. and thats what dkms does
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1254[11:42:31] <rant> !dkms
1255[11:42:32] <dpkg> Dynamic Kernel Module Support (DKMS) is a framework for generating out-of-tree Linux kernel modules. Packages using DKMS build modules during installation and when updated Linux versions are installed, provided Linux kernel headers are present (these are not installed by dkms). DKMS-managed modules are installed to /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/updates/dkms/ . The module build log file is at /var/lib/dkms/$module/$version/build/make.log
1256[11:42:57] <rant> ,i zfs-dkms
1257[11:42:58] <judd> Package zfs-dkms (contrib/kernel, optional) in stretch/amd64: OpenZFS filesystem kernel modules for Linux. Version: 0.6.5.9-5; Size: 1054.4k; Installed: 7961k; Homepage: replaced-url
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1259[11:44:16] <rant> all you need is headers to match your running kernel and the zfs-dkms package and it'll take care of the rest
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1296[12:16:50] <geekodour08> rant: okay, I understand it now. thanks
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1303[12:23:52] <rant> geekodour08: most editors will color code the sources list to show the components, first is the deb or deb-src for the binary or source packages, then the url, the branch, and then the sections, its all explained in man 5 sources.list
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1308[12:24:43] <project2501a> hey guys. is there a document somewhere describing the use of environmental modules with gcc? how to write environmental modules for different versions of a compiler or for different compilers? or the process by which the debian developers use the update-alternatives with gcc or other compilers?
1309[12:24:57] <rant> fwiw apropos is a command that searches the man pages, which are a valuable resource all systems have that can answer such questions
1310[12:26:21] <project2501a> also apropos is just an alias for man -k
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1312[12:27:02] <project2501a> the man page does not go deep enough into what i'm talking about.
1313[12:27:25] <rant> yeah I was following up on the questions about the sources.list but dually noted
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1316[12:31:05] <rant> project2501a: though your question is beyond the scope of debian user support, its not something our wiki or this channel could likely solve. You may want to head to OFTC and ask in a debian developer channel
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1326[12:41:19] <project2501a> rant: 10-4, wilco
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1332[12:45:30] <geekodour08> rant: I am on a Ubuntu 16.04 machine and I want to use apt-pinning to get the Prometheus package from bionic. And I am trying to follow that up from this guide: replaced-url
1333[12:46:38] <rant> geekodour08: well this is most certainly not an ubuntu support channel, but fwiw intrepid I believe was an ubuntu release name
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1336[12:48:00] <geekodour08> rant: okay, I'll try it out. thankyou very much. :)
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1339[12:48:39] <rant> what you should try out is Debian or an ubuntu support channel
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1342[12:49:29] <rant> ,v prometheus
1343[12:49:31] <judd> Package: prometheus on amd64 -- jessie-backports: 1.5.2+ds-2~bpo8+1; stretch: 1.5.2+ds-2+b3; stretch-backports: 2.3.2+ds-1~bpo9+1; buster: 2.3.2+ds-1; sid: 2.4.3+ds-1
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1371[13:11:43] <uniqdom> hello, I need to run an app inside Xephyr. I'm setting DISPLAY var, so the app starts in Xephyr's display correctly. This app is launching another app, but this one is being launched outside Xephyrs. How can I in force apps launched from inside Xephyr to be displayed in Xephyr?
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1374[13:14:31] <jelly> uniqdom: which apps are those? Which debian release? Setting DISPLAY as enviroment variable ought to be enough for normal X apps, but apps that use dbus to talk to other parts of the system (gnome or hde apps) or ssh or gpg agents may have other ideas
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1384[13:23:56] <vadmeste> Hello, not sure what I am missing, but it seems that latest chromium package (69.0.3497.92) doesn't support VP9 anymore, this can be seen in replaced-url
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1394[13:30:20] <uniqdom> jelly, I'm in Debian 9.5 (stable). In Xephyr I'm running cinnamon-launcher. From there, if I launch a Nemo (Files), it starts outside Xephyr.
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1422[13:51:38] <Spida> I am trying to build a package that provides an MTA, using conflicts/provides/replaces: mail-transport-agent as suggested by replaced-url
1423[13:51:44] <Spida> package that exim will be uninstalled when my ...
1424[13:51:47] <Spida> ... package is installed?
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1427[13:53:44] <tpo2> if there is another package that depends on exim or if you have installed exim explicitly then installing your package will *not* deinstall exim - you'll explicitly need to resolve the conflict by deinstalling exim
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1431[13:56:53] <Spida> tpo2: so if exim was manually installed, it will not be uninstalled?
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1434[13:57:19] <tpo2> that's right
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1436[13:58:54] <tpo2> the root of the problem is that you are telling apt or dpkg: "please install this package" and when there's conflict (that is there are two packages that are not allowed to be installed at the same time) then apt has no way of deciding which of the two packages you'd prefer to lose.
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1438[14:00:28] <Spida> tpo2: how do I tell apt to keep the one I am installing now?
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1440[14:00:56] <bites> if package A is installed and you are trying to install package B which has "Conflicts: A", then package A will be removed if you try to install B.
1441[14:01:27] <Spida> bites: that was what I was expecting
1442[14:01:49] <Spida> seems that "dpkg -i mypacakge.deb" will just error, "apt install mypackage.deb" will ask to proceed and replace the conflicted old package (exim)
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1445[14:04:08] <bites> that's apt install ./mypackage.deb right?
1446[14:04:23] <bites> apt is picky about the path iirc.
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1500[14:41:07] <jken> Hello, I am attempting to work around an issue in intel atoms related to cstates/freezing on boot. I am setting up a test bed to properly test some permutations of kernel-versions/cstate parameters/clocksource settings. I am wondering if it is possible to downgrade the kernel on Stretch to something older than 4.9.0-7amd64? I've only been able to figure out how to get a newer one (4.18) via backports.
1501[14:41:35] <colo-work> you can always build a package yourself
1502[14:41:46] <colo-work> the kernel upstream makefile has a target for creating proper .deb archives
1503[14:41:50] <colo-work> I just forgot its name...
1504[14:42:08] <colo-work> ah, "deb-pkg"
1505[14:42:25] <jken> If you could point me towards some instructions for that ^ it would be much appreciated
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1507[14:42:50] <colo-work> do you know how to compile the Linux kernel yourself?
1508[14:43:33] <jken> No, I've never done it.
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1511[14:43:46] <colo-work> ok
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1513[14:43:52] <colo-work> replaced-url
1514[14:44:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1370
1515[14:44:42] <colo-work> (you can find Debian's kernel config in /boot/config-*, but not in procfs)
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1517[14:45:31] <jken> awesome, thanks for the link.
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1529[14:53:09] <queip> is there a text editor for linux, working in text console too, but very fast with highlights etc? a modern thing. with option to bind keys similar to vim layout
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1532[14:55:20] <selckin> whats wrong with vim
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1534[14:56:02] <queip> selckin: scrolling down thorugh file slows down and eventually it lags like 5-10 seconds
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1537[14:56:17] <queip> even scrolling up and then down (it does not cache the highlight properly). with :syntax on
1538[14:56:34] <selckin> that must be some massive file
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1543[15:00:50] <queip> selckin: nope, normal file
1544[15:01:20] <queip> problems start with files with just few pages. if you have syntax highlight and a big terminal (lines) and scroll fast
1545[15:01:45] <pagetelegram> I'd like to cron a script to capture all desktops using shutter. What would I need to add to this syntax: shutter --profile=cbec -e ?
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1559[15:06:47] <deltam> I am using rsync to clone a shutdown Debian system from one 10GB partition to another the same size. I am getting "no space left on device" error due to a 4GB (presumably sparse) file named /var/tmp/.guestfs-0/appliance.d/root What can I do to fix this? Is it safe to delete that file?
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1561[15:07:43] <colo-work> you can always --exclude it from rsync
1562[15:07:57] <colo-work> we can't really know if you're gonna need that file again some time
1563[15:08:19] <colo-work> (rsync also has "--sparse")
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1565[15:10:06] <deltam> colo-work, --sparse was the answer i needed, thank you
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1571[15:14:02] <jelly> deltam: if you plan to boot said clone at some point in the future, you will probably also want to investigate how rsync deals with: hardlinks, extended attributes (xattr), and ownerships and permissions, and multiple filesystems mounted one below the other
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1576[15:15:15] <jelly> deltam: and also be careful to clone numerical user and group ids
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1579[15:15:59] <jelly> that last one is probably not relevant for cloning from a cold image, tho
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1581[15:16:19] <tytan> Hey, just a quick question about installing debian 9.5 amd64 ... I have seen someone installing debian without root on youtube and then sudo was used by default. I can't find that install without root option in the installer
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1583[15:16:43] <deltam> jelly, thanks for the tips, but i think i am ok, i used rsync -hav -HAXW --sparse which i think takes care of that stuff, and i am aware of the uid/gid issues they are consistent
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1585[15:18:00] <colo-work> --numeric-ids
1586[15:18:02] <colo-work> for good measure
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1594[15:21:18] <deltam> colo-work, yes, thanks, i already take care that all ids that touch other file systems are the same everywhere, the ones that dont i dont care about
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1596[15:23:25] <queip> vim is so slow, I can play quake (freedom) before it finishes redrawing screen lol
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1608[15:27:57] <queip> nano has no such problems
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1614[15:32:02] <colo-work> ed is the standard editor.
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1622[15:36:25] <queip> literally playing "Quake" while waiting for vim to finish scrolling - replaced-url
1623[15:36:57] <queip> (playback speed is x2 due to bug in recordmydesktop; might want to wait for vid to cache before play)
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1627[15:38:00] <selckin> have you tried in a diff terminal
1628[15:38:27] <queip> selckin: yes, same. Vim is just very 1-threaded and sync not async in highlighting, and does it slow, and the size is big so 1 pagedown = many lines
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1630[15:38:48] <queip> still I find the end result morbid/funny
1631[15:38:51] <selckin> either vey slow plugin, or something else wrong
1632[15:39:01] <queip> selckin: zero plugins, notice the vim -u NONE
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1636[15:40:25] <selckin> gimme that file
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1639[15:42:58] <queip> selckin: any 10-20 K bash file will do, but sure replaced-url
1640[15:43:24] <queip> selckin: the problem is when you scroll a lot, and you have many lines in terminal so each page down is eg 60 lines
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1642[15:43:55] <selckin> scrolls fine for me
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1644[15:44:03] <queip> I think the solution would be for vim to highlight in background, and cache the hl better, and also to show white text first and then hl, if it can't keep up
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1648[15:44:39] <queip> selckin: with :syntax on, where you have 50 lines terminal, in terminal btw, and after you keep scrolling e.g. for 5-10 seconds first?
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1651[15:45:10] <selckin> in full screen terminal, keeping pgdown down for 15s+, when i release, screen stops thats where i am
1652[15:45:26] <queip> selckin: how many echo $LINES ?
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1654[15:45:34] <selckin> 66
1655[15:46:00] <queip> selckin: then dunno.. other 2 people confirmed problem
1656[15:46:05] <queip> selckin: what machine?
1657[15:46:16] <queip> this is old Xenon, so 1-thread performance is not so greaet
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1659[15:46:32] <selckin> myeah maybe fairly high end, dell xps 3k€
1660[15:46:49] <queip> selckin: any special config? what if vim -u NONE then :syntax on then scroll?
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1662[15:47:37] <queip> selckin: what if you also xset r rate 160 100 to have faster keyboard repeat
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1664[15:47:42] <queip> (in any term)
1665[15:48:33] <selckin> works better without my vimrc without line nunmbers etc
1666[15:48:52] <queip> maybe this xenon is very bad on 1-thread tasks
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1668[15:49:03] <queip> btw, for example nano with it's simple HL, works almost perfectly
1669[15:49:14] <selckin> yeah with the xset it does what you say
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1672[15:49:35] <queip> selckin: ah ok. well yeah then it's even more lines / sec to hl
1673[15:50:04] <queip> btw I know such use case is not typical, but it's just to highlight the issue, which is that even scrolling 3-4 pages lags a bit, and it gets distrcting imo
1674[15:50:19] <queip> vim should better cache HL, and in background pre-HL few pages above and below.
1675[15:51:28] <selckin> or bind a button to take longer jumps maybe, instead of more jumps :/
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1683[15:55:33] <deltam> I checked my history timestamps, confirms that the 4GB /var/tmp/.guestfs-0 sparse file I mentioned earlier was created by a one-time guestmount & guestunmount to edit a kvm image. I didn't expect that process would leave huge hidden junk around like that.
1684[15:56:52] <deltam> I'm new to VM's though, anyone have any thoughts on that?
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1687[15:59:05] <selckin> queip: just curious what are the real xset you use? because if it's this i'm impressed you can type without going crazy :)
1688[16:00:20] <queip> selckin: 160 100 is what I use, yes
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1693[16:00:47] <queip> so vim really cramps my style :}
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1695[16:01:21] <queip> doesn't help with typing, only with manual scrolling lines and just characters, which some prefer often in addition to ctrl-arrow and such
1696[16:02:10] <greycat> I came in in the middle of this, but ... are you just wondering how to scroll up and down quickly in vi(m)? Ctrl-D scrolls down half a screen at a time, and Ctrl-U scrolls up half a screen at a time.
1697[16:02:23] <Spida> bites: yes
1698[16:02:39] <greycat> You can also use PageUp and PageDown in vim, but probably not in traditional vi.
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1700[16:02:47] <Spida> bites, tpo2: thank you, that worked
1701[16:02:50] <kxze> I just use 9j/9k
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1704[16:03:28] <queip> greycat: no I just like sometimes to quickly scroll few pages, and vim's highlight is not pre-cached too well so it lags then, especially when used on 1-thread-slow machine
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1707[16:04:00] <greycat> OK. I'd also suggest talking to #vim about any non-basic questions.
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1709[16:04:18] <queip> yeap. well the conclusion is generally that vim isn't the best in this task. I hope it will improve one day
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1723[16:10:27] <selckin> queip: non terminal but the best editor on the planet intellij idea does it just fine with your xset (some colors pop in delayed tho)
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1733[16:12:59] <selckin> not anymore after they are cached!
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1741[16:18:57] <queip> will check out. also Clion for C/C++
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1747[16:20:01] <spacedust> rant: thanks
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1753[16:23:20] <litb> hello all
1754[16:23:34] <litb> anyone knows how can I start "fzf" for a different directory than "." ?
1755[16:23:43] <litb> "fzf ../sources" doesn't work
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1757[16:24:30] <selckin> ( cd ../sources; fzf )
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1759[16:24:45] <litb> hm, i feared that might be the only solution
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1761[16:25:24] <litb> before, i did find ../sources -type f | fzf
1762[16:25:31] <litb> is it slower than the cd-variant?
1763[16:25:41] <greycat> you can do your own benchmark tests
1764[16:25:44] <selckin> does completely different things
1765[16:25:44] <litb> I guess so, because then the FS-walk is not done by fz
1766[16:26:18] <litb> I expected that typing echo ../sources** will do the trick
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1769[16:26:32] <greycat> if you're in bash, you have to turn on globstar first
1770[16:26:41] <greycat> err, and that's the wrong syntax too...
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1772[16:26:58] <litb> huh in other cases like "ssh **<TAB>" it will do aswell
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1774[16:27:07] <greycat> are you in bash, or zsh?
1775[16:27:07] <litb> but in "echo **" it wont
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1777[16:27:09] <selckin> sounds like you want an alias or something to quickly run this and not find a shortest way to type it
1778[16:27:10] <litb> bash
1779[16:27:21] <litb> selckin, exactly
1780[16:27:25] <litb> so maybe i should use alias
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1783[16:27:46] <litb> i just thought maybe there exist a short way. when I'm on a different PC, i would have to resetup the alias
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1789[16:29:38] <greycat> In bash, with "shopt -s globstar" enabled, echo foo** (where foo is a directory) does not work. echo foo/** does work.
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1792[16:30:21] <litb> greycat, doesn't work for me
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1795[16:31:08] <greycat> ... and by "work" I mean it recursively expands to all the subdirectories and files under foo/
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1797[16:31:22] <litb> greycat, ah you mean i should pipe it into fzf
1798[16:31:41] <greycat> I have no idea what your goal is. I just saw the foo** in your question and figured you wanted foo/** instead.
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1800[16:32:24] <litb> greycat, fzf installs a completion handler for bash for "**" which automatically calls "fzf"
1801[16:33:01] * greycat steps back .. slowly ...
1802[16:33:05] <litb> ahh if i do "cat ../sources/**<TAB>" then it works
1803[16:33:23] <litb> greycat, thanks for the generous support
1804[16:33:42] <martistra> I have a clause in my bashrc which sets the prompt colour according to the uid,but this is not working at all when I su to some other user (normally root). Is there a similar file to bashrc which is read upon su'ing?
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1809[16:34:49] <greycat> martistra: presumably, the .bashrc in the new user's home directory
1810[16:35:18] <litb> what would be best is, if i could specify a preview command for "cat ../sources/**"
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1812[16:35:53] <martistra> Which doesn't really exist I take it. Root is not a real user. (or is it on Debian?)
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1814[16:36:10] <greycat> Root is a real user and has a real home directory and there is a /root/.bashrc file.
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1817[16:36:22] <greycat> Why would you think it's not "real"?
1818[16:36:32] <martistra> Then thank you very much!
1819[16:36:33] <Luyin> coming from ubuntu where root is deactivated?
1820[16:36:49] <martistra> Coming from Mac OSX yeah
1821[16:37:04] <Luyin> hmm, Mac OS doesen't have a root user?
1822[16:37:37] <jolt> Luyin: They have, but it's also never used unless you sudo
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1824[16:38:15] <martistra> Well the nuances of how this is done is beyond me, but is OSX there is no root unless you enable it, and even then there is no root home or anything..
1825[16:38:30] <martistra> *in osx
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1827[16:39:19] <jolt> martistra: everyone has their own bashrc. If you start to use sudo -s instead of -i, then it will keep whatever environmental stuff you have set
1828[16:39:25] <jolt> that or sudo -sE
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1830[16:39:37] <jolt> to keep everything including SSH_AGENT and whatnot
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1832[16:39:51] <martistra> Security issue?
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1834[16:40:29] <jolt> martistra: well, if you mainly sudo to root, then root has access to anything anyway
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1837[16:40:59] <greycat> On some systems, sudo is used to give partial elevated privileges to not-fully-trusted users. In those environments, things like stripping the environment are done to prevent the users grabbing extra powers that they aren't supposed to have.
1838[16:41:31] <greycat> If you're only using it to give *yourself* temporary root powers, on your own computer, and you trust yourself, then a lot of the stuff sudo does is simply irritating.
1839[16:41:40] <karlpinc> martistra: If you want to execute root's .bashrc you want to execute su with the -l option. (or just '-')
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1841[16:41:47] <jolt> martistra: but use sudo -i -u <user>. -i means login shell, so it would spawn bash and read .bash_profile, or .profile or whatever depending on the shell
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1845[16:42:28] <greycat> karlpinc: incorrect.
1846[16:42:45] <greycat> karlpinc: replaced-url
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1848[16:44:31] <martistra> But there is no sudo on Debian I thought?
1849[16:44:52] <nyov> :D
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1851[16:45:02] <greycat> It's not installed by default unless you enter a blank root password during the install. But you can choose to install it.
1852[16:45:04] <martistra> No seriously
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1854[16:45:12] <martistra> Ahhh
1855[16:45:22] <martistra> OK, that's the deal
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1857[16:45:41] <martistra> I'm happy su'ing to root
1858[16:45:49] <martistra> I much prefer that
1859[16:45:59] <kxze> Debian doesn't have sudo by default?
1860[16:46:04] <kxze> pretty sure my install came with sudo
1861[16:46:13] <greycat> If you entered a blank root password...
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1863[16:46:20] <kxze> Oh. I see
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1866[16:46:47] <bites> the bash login shell sources /root/.profile which in turn sources /root/.bashrc which obviously is not mentioned in man bash.
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1868[16:46:57] <greycat> Lies.
1869[16:47:04] <martistra> Cool, thank you very much Grey at.
1870[16:47:08] <martistra> Lol
1871[16:47:14] <karlpinc> greycat: Allright, but -l does something else useful to make su more like logging in as root. Maybe something has changed but I settled on "su -" long ago or else root's environment just wasn't setup as expected.
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1873[16:47:42] <greycat> karlpinc: su - (or su -l or whatever) creates a login shell, which means it reads the .profile instead of the .bashrc. As explained in the man page.
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1875[16:48:04] <n4dir> i still chew on the statement that for OS X root has no home dir. Hard to believe.
1876[16:48:05] <greycat> It also sets HOME and changes directory to there and reads /etc/profile and all the other things a login shell does.
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1878[16:48:13] <martistra> Thank you very much greycat! I can now add the stuff I'm sure about to bashrc in root home and leave it at that. Brilliant! Ty!
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1880[16:49:02] <karlpinc> martistra: You don't want to indiscriminately put things into .bashrc, some stuff belongs in ~/.bash_profile. But I always have to read the man page to figure out what,.
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1883[16:50:20] <greycat> karlpinc: short story: login shell stuff is supposed to be executed once, when you actually login. Anything that persists through the environment or which can be inherited, like resource limits and umask, can be done there.
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1885[16:50:40] <greycat> .bashrc is for ephemeral stuff that has to be redone for every single shell, like shopts and aliases
1886[16:50:47] <martistra> karlpinc: sure, but after years I still don't fully appreciate the differences between them.
1887[16:50:48] <greycat> replaced-url
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1916[17:05:16] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: Something odd: Running a puppet command (r10k, which deploys changes from git) with sudo -i I get errors (some module not found or not the correct version) on three of seven servers. With sudo su - the errors don't happen.
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1921[17:06:07] <greycat> What would cause that? Some environment variable that tells puppet/git where this "module" is, being stripped away?
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1924[17:06:34] <pagetelegram> WindowMaker question? How do I disable unused workspaces (workspaces that have nothing loaded in them?)?
1925[17:06:38] <greycat> Or a change in PATH resulting in a different instance of the command being executed?
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1954[17:15:44] <premoboss> hello, some gambas3's user here?
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1963[17:23:04] <rgr> Are there any anywhere? :)
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1972[17:27:56] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: I may track it down eventually, but something like that.
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1977[17:36:22] <pagetelegram> How do I delete workspaces in wmaker? I got too many. Easy to create yet no documenation how to delete!
1978[17:36:36] <karlpinc> greycat: Thanks
1979[17:37:34] <nkuttler> pagetelegram: is it not in the right-click menu? either background or dock?
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1984[17:38:48] <pagetelegram> No option to delete or reset. Just rename and stuff to do with icons only.
1985[17:38:56] <pagetelegram> Using Clip
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1991[17:40:25] <pagetelegram> Feel free to PM me nkuttler. I'm using the presetup wmaker on debian 8 called WindowMaker Live. Thanks
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1994[17:41:17] <pagetelegram> WMaker community has an IRC community however no one ever responds and ziltch activity
1995[17:41:21] <nkuttler> pagetelegram: i haven't used wmaker in ~10 years
1996[17:41:34] <pagetelegram> ok, thanks.
1997[17:41:37] <nkuttler> how long have you been waiting for an answer?
1998[17:41:50] <nkuttler> i'd give it a week or so, not so active that wm any more..
1999[17:41:51] <pagetelegram> I sit there at times for several hours.
2000[17:42:03] <nkuttler> or try mailing lists
2001[17:42:11] <nkuttler> (or use something more modern)
2002[17:42:27] <pagetelegram> good idea for mailing lists. Thanks (lol maybe I hit them up on twitter :P)
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2004[17:42:45] <nkuttler> tarzeau: still use wmaker?
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2012[17:45:43] <pagetelegram> I'm doing some stuff for election integrity and having shutter capture 17 desktops when I just need it to do 5 is unreasonable. cntrl+-> creates new desktops easily with Clip and no known or documented way that I can find to delete them.
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2015[17:46:56] <pagetelegram> Unless I can use shutter at command line level to specify what desktop titles to capture. That would resolve my grunt.
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2018[17:47:38] <thms> shatter is awesome
2019[17:47:49] <thms> love to vape it
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2023[17:48:22] <pagetelegram> *shatter or shutter? you being sarcastic! I would use scrot of maim instead if it supported capturing virtual desktops.
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2025[17:48:44] <pagetelegram> Only Shutter can capture multiple desktops afaik
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2027[17:49:57] <nkuttler> import -w root?
2028[17:50:11] <nkuttler> oh, virtual desktops?
2029[17:50:23] <teclo-> there's William Shutter too ;)
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2031[17:51:10] <pagetelegram> Yeah that's what clip manages is multiple virtual desktops and seems there is no visible limit to how many.
2032[17:51:53] <Terrell> 46421
2033[17:52:00] <Terrell> sorry
2034[17:52:03] <pagios> f i have 2 virtual machines each having a local ssd disk of say 100gb, if my cluster is made of 2 nodes thus 2 vms, can i create a network disk of 200gb accessible by all the cluster?
2035[17:52:03] <pagios> like create a virtual distributed filesystem out of these 2 local ssd
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2042[17:57:03] <sZbcE8qNfG> is SMB3 secure enough to use over internet? Microsoft Azure is doing it (not even tunneled) and they apparently think it's secure enough
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2050[18:02:40] <jolt> sZbcE8qNfG: Maybe it is, but why would you not use a VPN to be sure (and also handle routing and access lists)
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2052[18:03:50] <tharkun> Aloha, good $DAY to everyone. I have a pdf file but I need to know what color a certain box has. (Some shadde of gray) What is my weapon of choice?
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2054[18:04:12] <selckin> screenshot, image editor
2055[18:04:14] <sZbcE8qNfG> VPN can have zero day exploits too
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2057[18:04:23] <n4dir> pagetelegram: if you leave a workspace, right-clicking on the desktop will offer "kill last"
2058[18:04:35] <tharkun> selckin: gnome, how to take and view a screenshot?
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2062[18:07:25] <tharkun> selckin: gimp pdf file directly. No need for the screenshot. Thanks for the heads up.
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2066[18:08:04] <yakiza> Hello guys i have an external hard drive that when i plug it in it doesnt show upi checked lsusb and it is not there as well
2067[18:08:06] <yakiza> any help
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2069[18:08:42] <tharkun> yakiza: Maybe, just maybe it is not beeing recognized. dmesg is your friend
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2082[18:13:19] <yakiza> tharkun: nthing in there
2083[18:13:52] <nyov> perhaps, plug in the power adapter of the drive so it has enough juice to spin up
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2106[18:29:23] <tarzeau> nkuttler: sure! and gnustep :)
2107[18:29:28] <tarzeau> nkuttler: livecd.gnustep.org
2108[18:30:01] <tarzeau> nkuttler: not like i didn't try kde, unity or gnome, but it's slow, ugly and a burden for any computer
2109[18:31:28] <jelly> unity works rather well on my 2012 thinkpad with intel gpu
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2112[18:33:20] <jelly> sZbcE8qNfG: ask ##windows-server or #samba, if anyone knows protocol details enough to make an assessment
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2114[18:33:49] <sZbcE8qNfG> thanks will do
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2116[18:34:58] <xinming> what package is used to build livecd please?
2117[18:35:23] <jelly> live-build probably
2118[18:35:27] <jelly> ,i live-build
2119[18:35:29] <judd> Package live-build (misc, optional) in stretch/amd64: Live System Build Components. Version: 1:20170213; Size: 364.9k; Installed: 1225k; Homepage: replaced-url
2120[18:36:22] <jhutchins_wk> sZbcE8qNfG: I've always seen strong recommendations not to run SMB over WAN. Not just security, but performance and potential for corruption.
2121[18:37:13] <jhutchins_wk> sZbcE8qNfG: That's always an issue with pseudo-filesystems over WAN, because you don't have the integrity checking you'd have if you use a transfer protocol..
2122[18:37:14] <jelly> sometimes you don't have any choice if you're doing migration to or from Azure or a hybrid setup in between
2123[18:37:23] <jelly> wtf
2124[18:37:42] <jelly> jhutchins_wk: what kind of integrity checking is there on a direct ethernet connection
2125[18:38:39] <xinming> Thanks
2126[18:38:41] <xinming> will check them out
2127[18:38:44] <jelly> or, what kind of integrity checking do you have with ftp
2128[18:38:58] <greycat> FTP runs on top of TCP which has integrity checks
2129[18:39:09] <greycat> I don't know whether SMB or CIFS do.
2130[18:39:13] <jhutchins_wk> jelly: None really, but ... well, I go back as far as dial-up, which was a lot less reliable.
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2133[18:39:33] <jelly> greycat: they do.
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2136[18:39:44] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: True, it at least doesn't allow dropped packets.
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2143[18:43:08] <sZbcE8qNfG> SMB has file integrity
2144[18:43:44] <sZbcE8qNfG> with SMB 3.0 encryption and fail2ban setup.....what exactly is insecure about SMB???
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2151[18:45:48] <jelly> sZbcE8qNfG: again, wrong channel probably
2152[18:46:21] <jelly> in the sense of getting better answers elsewhere
2153[18:46:25] <tharkun> yakiza: if there is nothing in dmesg regarding your usb drive it is probably not beeing seen by the computer itself. The usb port might be dead or the hdd might also be dead. Something should appear regarding that mount point. At least on the /dev/ space. Either dead or alive.
2154[18:47:24] <nyov> tharkun, if the drive were dead, the usb-ata chip would probably still announce itself
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2157[18:47:47] <tharkun> sZbcE8qNfG: as jelly mentioned. Then SMB has a long history of pita security failures it is beyond my ability to determine if they are protocol problems or configuration problems. pick your own venom.
2158[18:48:28] <tharkun> nyov: Not allways. Some are really dead. As in no response to any stimula (bare any misspellings) ;P
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2161[18:50:43] <nyov> then it's more likely the chip is dead and the drive would still work. unless you had it with you while being hit by lightning, then it's probably really dead :)
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2167[18:51:54] * tharkun thinks of a thousandd ways to kill an hdd including the microwave oven
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2203[19:10:12] <moopthemighty> hez mz kezmap is messed up and i need help figureing out how to get this live USB be correct lol
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2208[19:11:02] <krav> hey guys, dropping scripts into /etc/update-motd.d doesn't seem to do anything, but updating the script that's built in does. anyone know why? this seems contrary to the intent behind that directory.
2209[19:11:10] <moopthemighty> y and z are switched and if i plug in a new kezboard it works until reboot and then on boot up it messes up the same waz and dpkgßreconfigure kezboard stuff doesnt work
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2212[19:12:01] <jhutchins_wk> moopthemighty: Well that's fun. What release, what Desktop Env?
2213[19:12:05] <greycat> Also - and ß it seems :)
2214[19:12:35] <jolt> l
2215[19:12:49] <jolt> </fatfingers>
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2218[19:13:33] <greycat> krav: hmm... never saw that before. A few quick man page searches, and the only one I found is pam_motd(8) which has an option *not* to run the scripts... but doesn't say anything about what they have to look like to be eligible. I'd double check that you gave them proper shebangs and +x perms.
2219[19:14:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1375
2220[19:14:41] <krav> greycat: got both.
2221[19:14:44] <krav> even tried rebooting.
2222[19:14:50] <krav> and they run fine on their own
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2225[19:15:09] <greycat> krav: I see it was also created by a Debian developer, so maybe it follows the rules of run-parts.
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2227[19:15:36] <krav> yep, it's got 00 at the beginning of it
2228[19:15:41] <krav> so it should come before the uname line
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2230[19:16:13] <m_g_lewis> How do I change the user's picture for the login screen in LXDE?
2231[19:16:16] <moopthemighty> jhutchins_wk: debian 9 xfce live with persistance
2232[19:16:18] <greycat> What's the exact name of the script? If it follows run-parts then the name is critically important. Like, it cannot have a period in it.
2233[19:16:32] <krav> greycat: debian's wiki is delightfully light on the topic too :/
2234[19:16:50] <krav> greycat: 00-render_hostname
2235[19:17:12] <krav> greycat: i ran run-parts /etc/update-motd.d/ and it rendered fine.
2236[19:17:35] <krav> it looks like that cronjob is used to update /var/run/motd
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2238[19:17:39] <greycat> Hmm, OK. How sure are you that it's not actually running? Maybe add some logging to it (date >> /tmp/your.log).
2239[19:17:53] <m_g_lewis> Sorry, I meant just the login screen, not LXDE...
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2242[19:18:40] <m_g_lewis> The screen where you pick the user and the window manager to use...
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2244[19:18:42] <krav> greycat: just put in a touch to a file in temp. no file in temp.
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2248[19:19:36] <nyov> m_g_lewis: you're probably talking about GDM3 there, perhaps that helps while googling
2249[19:19:51] <greycat> krav: "strings /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/security/pam_motd.so" gave me this fascinating line: /usr/bin/env -i PATH=/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin run-parts --lsbsysinit /etc/update-motd.d > /run/motd.dynamic.new
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2254[19:20:58] <krav> greycat: that's just a static line.
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2256[19:21:22] <m_g_lewis> nyov: OK, I'll try that...
2257[19:21:25] <greycat> I'm guessing that's how it gets executed, which may or may not help you investigate
2258[19:21:31] <krav> greycat: i think what that does is that it outputs that file?
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2260[19:21:47] <krav> because i have one server where i've updated the default script
2261[19:21:49] <greycat> I'm assuming that string is given to system()
2262[19:21:57] <krav> and that file gets changed when that script runs
2263[19:21:59] <krav> yep!
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2267[19:23:06] <krav> greycat: i'll keep looking into this. It looks like there needs to be WAY more documentation on this. even googling just constantly brings up stuff about ubuntu.
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2270[19:26:22] <BoF> any use debian on macbookpro?
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2272[19:26:57] <BoF> what is the best configuration macfanctl.conf?
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2295[19:38:13] <moopthemighty> DO I HAVE TO REBUILD THE INITRAMFS _!_
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2298[19:41:23] <BoF> moopthemighty, me?
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2301[19:43:25] <BoF> any use debian on a mac?
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2307[19:44:36] <moopthemighty> i dont know :(
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2356[20:15:02] <krav> greycat: _ is an unallowed name
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2358[20:15:05] <krav> or an unallowed character
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2360[20:15:10] <krav> from what i can tell.
2361[20:16:30] <greycat> Then I don't understand what the man page is saying in the --lsbsysinit section.
2362[20:16:45] <krav> I don't either. but i shortened it and removed the _ and it's working now.
2363[20:17:33] <greycat> The "Debian cron namespace" shows _ being allowed, but I don't see any way to tell which of the three "namespaces" run-parts has decided to use.
2364[20:18:13] <krav> any way, i figured it out. I can now actually make this work.
2365[20:18:22] <krav> and I'll look into updating the wiki somehow.
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2384[20:28:50] <nkuttler> tarzeau: \o/
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2388[20:30:50] <tarzeau> xinming: replaced-url
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2391[20:32:11] <jken> I have a strange issue. I have a kiosk like application that gets started automatically on boot. Typical x11 -> openbox -> autostart app. However, I just upgraded from kernel 4.9 to 4.18 and now it takes a very long time for the app to start. To add to that, it will start immediately as soon I start tailing its log file.
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2396[20:32:29] <jken> I have never run into anything like this, and am wondering if anyone can assist me in starting to debug
2397[20:32:39] <jken> Perhaps IO bound, or a lock that is removed once I tail the log file?
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2401[20:33:23] <somiaj> might need to check what is taking so long, systemd-anaylize blame should list services that take a long time to start
2402[20:33:25] <greycat> Sounds like that random() thing.
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2404[20:34:04] <jken> somiaj, already tried that, finishes booting all of userspace in 30 seconds, then sits until I trigger my app to start by tailing it log
2405[20:34:31] <greycat> Does the application start up faster if you wiggle the mouse for a while, or type stuff on the keyboard for a while? That would confirm the random() thing.
2406[20:34:41] <jken> greycat, I will confirm now
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2408[20:34:52] <somiaj> there was some package I recall that helps with that (though I thought that bug in the kernel was fixed)
2409[20:35:24] <greycat> It's been long enough that I no longer have a firm grasp on the details. Not sure whether it was considered a kernel bug or a bug in lightdm or ....
2410[20:35:43] <jken> greycat, absolutely. started almost instantly with me spamming the mouse/keyboard
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2412[20:36:05] <jken> I am not running lightdm
2413[20:36:10] <jken> simple x11 -> openbox
2414[20:36:15] <jken> started via xinitrc
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2416[20:36:22] <somiaj> there is a pakage you can install to help with this, I foreget which one though.
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2419[20:37:15] <somiaj> !cve-2018-1108
2420[20:37:15] <dpkg> cve-2018-1108 is a security fix for a lack of randomness at boot. Delays the use of the kernel crng by applications till sufficient randomness is ready. Can cause delays (up to to 4+ minutes) in boot time just before or just after login, esp with LUKS enabled. Short term workarounds: Wiggle mouse/tap keyboard a lot, install rng-tools5 or haveged pkgs
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2422[20:37:33] <somiaj> rng-tools5 or haveged packages, and heaveged package was the one I recall more using.
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2424[20:38:03] <greycat> ,info rng-tools5
2425[20:38:04] <judd> Package rng-tools5 (utils, optional) in stretch/amd64: Daemon to use a Hardware TRNG. Version: 5-1; Size: 20.7k; Installed: 69k
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2428[20:38:30] <somiaj> ,info heaveged
2429[20:38:31] <judd> No package named 'heaveged' was found in stretch/amd64.
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2431[20:38:39] <somiaj> ,info haveged
2432[20:38:40] <judd> Package haveged (misc, extra) in stretch/amd64: Linux entropy source using the HAVEGE algorithm. Version: 1.9.1-5+deb9u1; Size: 32.6k; Installed: 76k; Homepage: replaced-url
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2434[20:39:12] <greycat> looks like rng-tools5 requires an actual hardware RNG, and the other one does not
2435[20:39:26] <jken> How might I determine if my device has the hardware required
2436[20:39:57] <somiaj> it is uncommon to have such hardware I belive.
2437[20:40:05] <somiaj> so I would go with haveged package.
2438[20:40:13] <jken> The device in question is an atom based intel compute stick
2439[20:40:16] <somiaj> though one would think lshw would look at it.
2440[20:40:27] <jken> replaced-url
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2446[20:42:56] <greycat> After installing rng-tools5, I read the man page, then ran "sudo rngd -v" which lists available sources. Mine shows "DRNG" and "TPM". Still researching what those mean exactly.
2447[20:42:58] <jken> Hmm, sounds like CVE-2018-1108 was resolved in kernels after 4.17... I am runnign 4.18.0 replaced-url
2448[20:43:04] <jken> From stretch-backports
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2450[20:43:50] <somiaj> yea, I thought it was fixed too, but maybe it is a regression in how the backport kernels are made. I would check the bts
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2453[20:45:54] <jken> somiaj, bts?
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2455[20:46:04] <somiaj> !bts
2456[20:46:04] <dpkg> Bug Tracking System for Debian packages, replaced-url
2457[20:46:20] <somiaj> though kernel bugs are so numerous, it is hard to search throught hem.
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2473[21:02:15] <jken> well, haveged seems to be saving me right now
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2481[21:07:59] <s00x> hey
2482[21:09:08] <s00x> I got external monitor connected to my laptop. When I close the laptop (lid), the resolution changes and I see everything only on my monitor
2483[21:09:11] <s00x> how can I stop that?
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2485[21:09:28] <s00x> I mean don't "turn off" laptop screen when I close the lid?
2486[21:09:39] <somiaj> I think logind does this.
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2488[21:10:08] <somiaj> hmm, nevermind memory failed me, one second.
2489[21:10:21] <s00x> I tried with HandledSwitch, but didn't work
2490[21:10:29] <s00x> HandleLidSwitch
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2493[21:11:06] <somiaj> so you changed /etc/systemd/logind.conf to have HandleLidSwitch=ignore
2494[21:11:12] <s00x> yeah
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2496[21:11:15] <somiaj> then restarted your system?
2497[21:11:15] <s00x> and it doesn't work
2498[21:11:18] <s00x> yup
2499[21:11:33] <somiaj> hmm, then I'm unsure what else could be triggered by that switch.
2500[21:12:09] <s00x> gimmie a second for a system restart, I'll try with /etc/UPower/UPower.conf
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2502[21:12:12] <s00x> I see IgnoreLid there
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2506[21:12:51] <somiaj> I don't have that in mine, but I do have LigSwitchIngoreInhibited=yes, maybe make that no, don't Inhibit the ignore.
2507[21:13:04] <somiaj> might have to look up systemd documentation to find out more detils on those parameters.
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2509[21:13:20] <somiaj> oh and you did uncomment the option too? (Just double checking)
2510[21:13:20] <s00x> thx, I'll give it a try, brb
2511[21:13:25] <s00x> (yeah, sure ;) )
2512[21:13:27] <s00x> brb
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2521[21:16:48] <s00x> ok, it worked, yay!
2522[21:16:51] <s00x> *it works
2523[21:17:07] <s00x> ignoreLid=true
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2579[21:46:56] <DammitJim> I'm getting this when running fdisk /dev/sdb
2580[21:46:57] <DammitJim> The size of this disk is 2 TiB (2199023255552 bytes). DOS partition table format can not be used on drives for volumes larger than 2199023255040 bytes for 512-byte sectors. Use GUID partition table format (GPT).
2581[21:47:09] <DammitJim> does that mean I can't use fdisk and have to resort to parted?
2582[21:50:13] <qman__> frisk
2583[21:50:18] <qman__> gdisk
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2585[21:50:48] <DammitJim> I guess my main question is... can I not just create a new partition?
2586[21:51:20] <qman__> gdisk works similar to fdisk but with gpt support
2587[21:51:27] <greycat> Either make a GPT disklabel for it, or use LVM.
2588[21:51:44] <DammitJim> I will be creating an LVM but on top of the partition
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2592[21:51:49] <qman__> you cannot do MBR on disks larger than ~2.2TB
2593[21:52:09] <DammitJim> this is a data drive... maybe I don't need MBR?
2594[21:52:16] <qman__> Well, you can, but won't be able to access any space past that
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2596[21:52:54] <qman__> use gdisk and create a gpt partition
2597[21:53:11] <greycat> I don't see the point of creating a partition and then running LVM inside the partition.
2598[21:53:26] <DammitJim> that's what I didn't understand
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2600[21:53:31] <qman__> You could add the raw disk to lvm but I don't because then if you ever access it with another partition tool you may nuke it
2601[21:53:36] <DammitJim> but that's the way another server was set up by a 3rd party
2602[21:53:40] <DammitJim> so, I have to do it the same for this server
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2604[21:54:07] <greycat> *shrug* OK, then make a GPT disklabel, make the partition, and then make the LVM stuff
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2607[21:55:34] <qman__> Matter of personal preference, it isn't required but can be a good idea to prevent accidents
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2609[21:56:37] <qman__> I do it because the 2MB of space is worth potentially not accidentally nuking my data
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2615[21:58:28] <noln> that disk is off the MBR limit by 512 bytes only
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2617[22:00:04] <DammitJim> I know!
2618[22:00:11] <DammitJim> it's a VM
2619[22:00:20] <DammitJim> I should create it to be 1.999TB
2620[22:00:34] <greycat> or you could just use GPT
2621[22:00:38] <qman__> Ah, well you can create an embrace, it will just not be able to address the extra space
2622[22:00:45] <qman__> mbr
2623[22:00:58] <qman__> Or just use gpt
2624[22:01:08] <noln> or just reuse mbr as on the other server, and forget the 512 bytes
2625[22:01:11] <qman__> It's the standard, it's not going anywhere
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2653[22:19:24] <__0xbadc0de_> hello
2654[22:19:35] <__0xbadc0de_> how can I find the full path of a binary in linux?
2655[22:19:47] <__0xbadc0de_> say that I want to find the absolutely path for ls, or sh
2656[22:19:49] <slax0r> whereis foo
2657[22:20:04] <__0xbadc0de_> <3
2658[22:20:14] <greycat> command -v ls
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2664[22:24:21] <jhutchins_wk> __0xbadc0de_: which ls
2665[22:24:27] <greycat> worst choice.
2666[22:24:44] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: Because?
2667[22:25:17] <greycat> replaced-url
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2676[22:29:48] <somiaj> well here which gives the output asked for, and comman -v ls doesn't, because I have ls as an alias.
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2678[22:29:59] <somiaj> but I do see the point in terms of scripting on the FAQ
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2680[22:32:03] <greycat> which doesn't do anything more than command -v on Debian. What are you seeing?
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2683[22:32:59] <somiaj> which ls -- returns /bin/ls, the full path that was asked for. command -v ls -- returns alias ls='ls --color=auto' (which I think is fairly defualt alias in debian)
2684[22:33:00] <greycat> Ah... aliases. You're using which(1) to bypass shell aliases, functions and builtins.
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2686[22:33:57] <somiaj> over all command -v seems useful, and might give the info needed, I was just pointing out that here it didn't directly give the info asked for.
2687[22:33:59] <greycat> In that case you might be interested in type -P, but I think I won't convince you of the nastiness of which.
2688[22:34:34] <greycat> The main advantage of command -v is that it's completely POSIX compliant. Works in dash, etc. Perfect for scripts where you don't have to worry about aliases and stuff.
2689[22:34:39] <somiaj> the faq was good enough, seems to be a bad tool to rely on in scripting, but it might quickly help.
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2694[22:35:52] <somiaj> thanks for the info, I didn't realize which was fairly unstandard, espically in terms of returns when the command is not found.
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2697[22:37:37] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: Ok, so which not good programatically, but OK for one shot CLI use.
2698[22:38:13] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: And I know your preference is that we use good programming even when running CLI commands to develop good diciplined habits.
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2703[22:38:44] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: I have dutifully retrained myself to use "while read" and "sudo -i".
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2705[22:39:26] <greycat> there's definitely a different answer set depending on whether you're writing a script, or doing stuff interactively
2706[22:39:45] <jhutchins_wk> I suppose locate could be used as well.
2707[22:39:47] <greycat> most of the #bash questions are about scripts, whereas here it's more of a toss-up
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2713[22:43:31] <scwizard> i'm kinda confused
2714[22:43:32] <scwizard> replaced-url
2715[22:43:43] <scwizard> how come a fix for this bot backported to jessie (security) but not to stretch?
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2717[22:44:57] <somiaj> what do you mean, it was fixed in stretch with version 0.16-1+deb9u1
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2720[22:45:22] <greycat> the page is showing a "libidn" pacakge in stretch but I don't actually see one in apt-cache show
2721[22:45:25] <scwizard> somiaj: that's for libidn2-0 which is a different package than libidn right?
2722[22:45:30] <greycat> the libidn2-0 pacakge is showing as fixed
2723[22:45:30] *** Quits: vidarr (~vidr@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2724[22:45:40] <scwizard> greycat: it's called libidn11 i think
2725[22:45:56] <somiaj> oh yea, didn't notice there was two libaries listed there.
2726[22:46:00] <somiaj> ,v libdin
2727[22:46:01] <judd> No package named 'libdin' was found in amd64.
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2729[22:46:06] <somiaj> ,v libidn
2730[22:46:07] <judd> No package named 'libidn' was found in amd64.
2731[22:46:11] *** Quits: Ricardo__ (~rick@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2732[22:46:21] <greycat> ,i libidn11
2733[22:46:22] <judd> Package libidn11 (libs, standard) in stretch/amd64: GNU Libidn library, implementation of IETF IDN specifications. Version: 1.33-1; Size: 112.5k; Installed: 306k; Homepage: replaced-url
2734[22:46:23] *** Joins: mason (~mason@replaced-ip)
2735[22:46:26] <greycat> ,i libidn2-0
2736[22:46:27] <judd> Package libidn2-0 (libs, extra) in stretch/amd64: Internationalized domain names (IDNA2008) library. Version: 0.16-1+deb9u1; Size: 59.2k; Installed: 174k; Homepage: replaced-url
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2742[22:49:07] <scwizard> obviously libidn11 is legacy, but it's included in the official docker image because iputils-ping (which is also legacy of course) depends on it
2743[22:49:32] <scwizard> which is how I noticed this, because I just got anchore setup to do docker image CVE scanning
2744[22:49:48] * greycat sees the D-word, loses all interest forever
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2746[22:50:02] <nyov> rofl
2747[22:50:38] <scwizard> iputils-ping and libidn11 are included in physical installs too tho :|
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2749[22:51:22] <scwizard> like look i'm not trying to hate, i just thought it was odd that jessie got a security backport before stretch did
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2751[22:51:28] <somiaj> yea, I can't track down why they never fixed that cve in stretch. What packages actually depend on the older libary in stretch?
2752[22:51:45] <scwizard> somiaj: notably iputils-ping and emacs
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2754[22:52:51] <somiaj> I tried looking through the bug reports listed, but no info on why stretch was left out. Maybe this is archived in a security mailing list somewhere, or could be better answered asking security directly.
2755[22:53:06] <scwizard> so like in practice people aren't gonna get hacked or anything, i just thought it was kinda funny
2756[22:53:14] <booyah> greycat: what is wrong about docker?
2757[22:53:30] <scwizard> somiaj: "asking security directly" i'm assuming via the mailing list?
2758[22:53:55] <scwizard> booyah: probably offtopic for this channel
2759[22:54:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1365
2760[22:54:05] <somiaj> scwizard: debian doesn't fix all vulns, only those determined bad enough. And maybe this vuln doesn't actaully affect stretch since that libary isn't linked to anything remote.
2761[22:54:23] <somiaj> scwizard: and yes, I think the mailing list is an appropriate place to ask for clarification.
2762[22:54:23] <scwizard> somiaj: oh so likely fixed in jessie cause it has more depends in jessie?
2763[22:54:45] *** Quits: sleepingforest (~sleepingf@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2764[22:54:49] <somiaj> could be, that in jessie it could actually be exploited, but ping and emacs can't exploit this, so it was left alone (they try not to change things if they don't have to)
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2767[22:55:01] <somiaj> I am not saying this is the case, just a possiblity.
2768[22:55:19] <scwizard> emacs could theoretically exploit this if you're being outrageously irresponsible with it lol
2769[22:56:11] <scwizard> kinda squeamish about sending something to the mailing list, seems like it would just be noise
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2771[22:57:27] <somiaj> replaced-url
2772[22:57:28] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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2774[22:57:46] <somiaj> but the info you seek might be hidden in that report.
2775[22:58:13] <greycat> Oh, it's not just docker? OK, then maybe I am interested again.
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2779[22:58:45] <scwizard> somiaj: i read that page and the impression i got was "ppl are busy lol" so yeah
2780[22:59:06] <scwizard> hence why mailing list is kinda :| ppl have enough stuff on there to actually worry about
2781[22:59:55] <scwizard> greycat: i wouldn't bring up anything docker exclusive here
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2783[23:00:45] <__0xbadc0de_> how can I set $eip in gdb?
2784[23:00:48] <__0xbadc0de_> gdb/gef
2785[23:01:20] <__0xbadc0de_> w/out patching memory
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2787[23:02:12] <scwizard> __0xbadc0de_: google says: replaced-url
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2790[23:02:45] <greycat> try ##workingset
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2794[23:04:11] <__0xbadc0de_> useless. here is the solution set $eip=0x1337
2795[23:04:14] <__0xbadc0de_> simple
2796[23:04:27] <scwizard> __0xbadc0de_: that's what the link says yes. I got it from googling: gdb set eip
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2808[23:14:22] <somiaj> scwizard: might be a time vs actual vuln (as mentioned it could be nothing in a default stretch could actually be exploided by this). Looking at the change log of the fix, replaced-url
2809[23:14:28] <somiaj> worth the effort (again this is just a guess)
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2819[23:20:19] <plantroon> Hey! Does anyone here use Chromium with native notifications enabled?
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2852[23:38:12] <__0xbadc0de_> hello guys
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2883[23:54:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1350
2884[23:56:25] <sleepingforest> wheres the best place to get GTK themes? is it still gtk-look or gnome-look / xfce-look?
2885[23:56:51] *** Joins: no_gravity (~no_gravit@replaced-ip)
2886[23:56:53] <no_gravity> Hello
2887[23:56:55] <no_gravity> When I press <tab> in the shell, why do I get all that funky stuff like \:, \!, ./, \[ etc?
2888[23:57:07] *** Joins: devbaka (~devbaka@replaced-ip)
2889[23:57:58] <somiaj> no_gravity: what shell and are you typing anything else?
2890[23:58:15] <somiaj> typing <tab> in my shell does nothing (just typing it as the only character)
2891[23:58:24] <no_gravity> somiaj: bash. just pressing <tab> on an empty line.
2892[23:58:32] <somiaj> but if I do like 'ls tab' I get stuff
2893[23:58:45] *** Joins: bozza (~bozza@replaced-ip)
2894[23:58:46] <no_gravity> yeah, but i get those on an empty line
2895[23:58:48] <somiaj> yea pressing tab on an empty line in bash does nothing here
2896[23:59:05] <no_gravity> really? thats strange
2897[23:59:10] <somiaj> maybe something in your tab complection configuration?
2898[23:59:16] *** Quits: ChmEarl (~chmearl@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2899[23:59:25] <somiaj> I just checked two stretch machines, my laptop and my dekstop, both the same.
2900[23:59:57] <no_gravity> Well, I have this in my inputrc: Tab: menu-complete
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